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Wings Over Scotland

The heresy of biology

Posted on February 22, 2021 by

Two days ago this website published a leaked draft version of the SNP’s definition of “transphobia” which was debated at a meeting of its National Executive Committee on Saturday. The party has now published (for members only) the final agreed version, which is essentially identical to the draft except for a few tweaks.

But one of them is very significant.

The highlighted part was not in the draft, and it amounts to an explicit and absolutely terrifying redesignation of basic human biology as a hate crime.

Because human beings cannot change sex. Sex is a material fact wired irrevocably into every strand of our DNA and every cell in our bodies before we’re born, and which cannot be altered by any kind of hormone treatment or surgery. You can go and dig up a million-year-old skeleton and immediately determine with 100% certainty whether it was male or female (and much else besides). At the very most, humans can change their sex for the purposes of the law, which is a completely different thing.

In 1930s and 1940s Germany, it was the law that Jewish people were not human. They were stripped of all their civil rights and described by the Nazi state as “untermensch”, a word which translates literally as “under men” or, more traditionally, “sub-human”.

But of course their biology hadn’t changed. They were still human. Their sub-humanity was a legal fact – it was legislated by a democratically-elected government and was enforceable by the authorities to the extent that it saw over six million people murdered entirely legally under the law as it then stood – but it wasn’t a biological fact. Laws are (thankfully in this case) arbitrary and transitory human constructions. Biology is eternal.

The change from the SNP’s already-worrying draft definition is a huge and crucial one. It robs anyone of even the right to simply describe a transwoman as what they are – a biological male. It is literally a legal prohibition on reality.

(The definition of “trans”, incidentally, encompasses Dame Edna Everage.)

A scientifically accurate description will be classed as the same thing as a physical assault or a threat and made a criminal offence punishable by up to seven years in jail.

The Nu-SNP is essentially holding independence supporters to ransom in this May’s election. Because it monopolises the Yes vote, it can blackmail people by telling them the only chance of independence is to vote SNP. (Even though it’s an empty promise, because the party has no actual credible plan to achieve a referendum.)

But anyone who votes SNP will also be expressly voting for the above, and unlike a referendum the prohibition of reality definitely WILL happen, because even if the SNP don’t get a majority they’ll be supported by the Greens, Lib Dems and Labour.

Any vote for the SNP will be a vote for the above definition of transphobia, and so a vote against the existence of human biology, a vote against the rights of women and a vote against free speech. It is a vote this site can no longer even reluctantly endorse.

(And before you ask, there’s no other party contesting constituency seats that we can endorse either. Voting Tory is a totally unconscionable evil under any circumstances and all the other parties are every bit as deep in the insane cult of transgenderism as the SNP. If we still lived at home we’d be spoiling our constituency vote.)

We’re not, of course, saying the SNP are as bad as the Nazis. The Nazis didn’t put the Holocaust in any of their election manifestos and once they got elected they abolished democracy, so the people who voted for them in the 1930s could legitimately deny any responsibility for Auschwitz and Treblinka and Sobibor and Chelmno.

But the SNP are telling you openly up front what you’ll be voting for. So if you do it, you have no excuses for the horrors that will follow. They’ll be on you.

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286 to “The heresy of biology”

  1. Shiregirl says:

    This is completely and chillingly batshit crazy. And sinister.

  2. David says:

    I’ll be spoiling my constituency vote and voting on the list only.

  3. Alice Timmons says:

    I sincerely hope that some capable person in the background is about to launch a crowdfunder for a legal challenge to this. You know you’re about to get a shitload of grief for this, Stu, because there are so many either uninformed or willingly blind people out there walking in to this horror in a fog of smug self righteousness….

  4. ScottieDog says:

    The fact that I’m NOT voting for the SNP this May is everything to do with the activities of the leadership in attempting to destroy an innocent man. Many of us will NEVER recover economically from COVID 19 which means, under nicola’s terms, we will never separate form the U.K. Oh, yes, that’s another reason I won’t vote for her.

  5. Alison says:

    We’re all going to jail.
    See you there a’body.

  6. MikeW says:

    As above i can not vote for this insanity or a leader that lies and blocks enquiries. I think it might be a spoilt paper or if there is a independent (minor party) if any have decent policies and are standing.

  7. Harry mcaye says:

    Terrifying is the word. How did we let this happen? I was going to vote Labour to get my local TRA out but as you say, they will probably have the same view. I know Monica Lennon does. Mass spoiling of papers it must be and ISP on the list.

  8. Dave Llewellyn says:

    Stop dragging our votes around.

  9. wee monkey says:

    And I’m still waiting for my “blue” envelope of joy.

    July they say. Maybe August or even September depending how the wind blows.

    Fuck this pos Government.

    Addendum. The “blue” letter is a psyops attempt from the Scot gov to align vaccination with independence.

    Well it would be if they had ordered enough blue envelopes. Wankers, complete wankers. More £££££ and exposure to danger (time) pissed away.

  10. ScotsRenewables says:

    So we can say they have a ‘Y’ chromosome? Or is that a hate crime?

    Yes, batshit crazy.

  11. 1971Thistle says:

    Good to see they kept the bit about ‘wider trans people’

  12. ScotsRenewables says:

    Cherry and some others need to jump ship Now and join the ISP

    Hope the temple comes down on Wednesday.

  13. Sharon says:

    Looks like list only for me this election. I just cannot give the cabal a reason to say I voted for this dangerous insanity.

  14. Sad to see the deluded people who support SNP authoritarianism, label you as a “rightwing extremist”

  15. Ian McCubbin says:

    ISP on the list and no Constituency vote for me.
    This is wrong on all counts.

  16. Scott says:

    why hasn’t anyone started a new scottish indy party thats for free speech, reason, logic and scientific fact? the SNP aren’t supportable anymore, a new party would attract hundreds of thousands of people

  17. Bob Mack says:

    Staring us in the face isn’t it. I had planned on spending my retirement in the garden but I think I will be enjoying cosier surroundings. I cannot and will not accept this.

    When governments go rogue it is not long before the unacceptable become the norm. Are we not seeing that already?

    What a twist on history that only this time the minority persecute the majority via the State

  18. Calum says:

    Transwomen by definition are biological males, hence the “trans” bit.

  19. robbo says:

    wee monkey

    I got my blue envelope the other day. My jab next week so I’m fine wae that. I’m under 60, but I do have a medical condition so not sure if it’s because of that- i assume so.

  20. Intractable Potsherd says:

    Independence is going to come eventually, but I am not willing to pay this price. What the SNP is proposing is the equivalent of the Test Acts, but based on less evidence and affecting far more people. Biology is real – trans women are men;trans women are men;trans women are men.

  21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So we can say they have a ‘Y’ chromosome? Or is that a hate crime?”

    No and yes in that order.

  22. Robert Grant says:

    Hi Stu, like yourself I consider the current SNP to be unelectable largely because it refuses to learn from history. As a normal gay young man in the 1970’s i well remember the destruction of the Gay Lib movement from within by the wooly brained politicians and an entryist incursion of PIE (peadophile info exchange)
    Why the current SNP Leadership is openly encouraging the transgender zealots and providing them with a destructive platform is easily explained.
    Just like PIE’s infiltration in the 70’s Our current first minister is deliberatly using a vulnerable minority to secure the enfeeblement of the Indy dream and the end of the SNP.
    You may find this opinion to be paranoid fantasy but having lived through the death of a movement by entryist means looking at the current situation I see clearly history repeating itself given that yesterday Out for Indy broadcast a nasty simplification by Christina McKelvie about her determination to push GRA whatever the cost post may election. This showed me that not only do a section of parliamentarians have a warped sense of entitlement to the general publics votes but that they are trying to hold the indy public hostage to their scams. Nicola is a Fraud.

  23. Allium says:

    I had already decided I couldn’t vote for them before this news, as I knew something of this sort was coming down the line.

    Sad, but not surprised. Bye SNP.

  24. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Sad to see the deluded people who support SNP authoritarianism, label you as a “rightwing extremist””

    The National basically calls us a “terror network” today…

  25. Margaret Lindsay says:

    ISP on the list, I won’t be voting on the constituency vote.

  26. Cath says:

    It robs anyone of even the right to simply describe a transwoman as what they are – a biological male. It is literally a legal prohibition on reality.

    This is actually worse than it sounds as well, given there is no definition of trans. It used to be that there were transvestites (men who dressed in women’s clothing, often for things like drag show which are a parody of women rather than anything else) and transsexuals (people who underwent transition due to gender dysphoria).

    For various reasons, not least the fact that gay marriage wasn’t possible until fairly recently, there was a need for those people who had transitioned to be able to claim the *legal fiction* that there were the sex they had transitioned into. That’s all it ever was, a legal fiction. The Gender Recognition Act allowed for this, but there were requirements. These requirements weeded out people who might abuse or misuse the new, and entirely additional to everyone else, rights they gained.

    The new “trans” umbrella makes no distinctions whatsoever and demands absolutely nothing of anyone. It is enough for a man to simply say he is “trans” for it now to be impossible to mention that he is a man. In other words, it is impossible for a woman or girl to even name the danger: “This man is threatening/scaring me” becomes hate speech if the man claims he’s going by the name of Candice that day and is wearing purple nail varnish.

    It should go without saying that this is hugely damaging to the rights not only of women and girls, but also of those genuine transsexuals and people with gender dysphoria who really do need specialised and understanding healthcare and possibly additional rights due to having transitioned.

  27. Frazerio says:

    XX XY, there, Ive said it, what a hateful creep I am.

  28. David Earl says:

    Everyday I’m having to pinch myself or slap my face to wake me up from this nightmare but it’s not working. Here we are in Scotland 2021 FFS! I’m a scientist. Specifically I have diplomas in Applied Biological Sciences and Hons Degree in Microbiology. I have an extensive knowledge and book collection including biology and human anatomy and physiology. I’ve jokingly mentioned about “burning my books” because they state scientific facts but go against SNP and possibly soon to be Scottish government policy. I will not be able to say to my daughter in my own home that she is an adult human female because that is transphobic and a hate crime.

  29. Charles Hodgson says:

    The media at the Coranavirus updates need to ignore the virus for a while and press NS hard on this and other woke policies.
    Just to see the look on her soor puss.

  30. montfleury says:

    I may have to vote Green for the constituency. That registers as a vote for independence without any risk of actually electing anyone insane. Depends what the SNP candidate says. If she’s going to claim women have penises then indeed that’s not tenable.

    The list vote fuck knows. I’d have voted for Andy Wightman if he’d stood in the Lothians. I don’t share Mr Campbell’s loathing for him.

  31. robbo says:

    No Votes SNP . No votes Tory. No votes Slab. No votes Slibs. No votes Greens. Sad days indeed, but what the hell.

    Only 55 % of the electorate voted in last election. I wonder what will happen now?

  32. Desimond says:

    What did you do when you had power?

    Well Im glad you asked…lets see..

    The note on folk being forced to vote SNP in the hope it means Independence is going to be the be all and end-all. If they Lose or win and stall then Westminster will run over them and members and voters will desert even more than now..if they win and actually go for it then it will shock many who wait in sidelines with their further agenda items they wish NEC focus upon..

    I dont hold out much hope either way.. back to the drawing board and the next but 1 Generation to pick up the fight

  33. Charles Hodgson says:

    Good luck with that montfleury. The Greens are equally insane.

  34. robbo says:

    montfleury says:
    22 February, 2021 at 12:31 pm
    I may have to vote Green for the constituency. That registers as a vote for independence without any risk of actually electing anyone insane. Depends what the SNP candidate says. If she’s going to claim women have penises then indeed that’s not tenable.

    The list vote fuck knows. I’d have voted for Andy Wightman if he’d stood in the Lothians. I don’t share Mr Campbell’s loathing for him.


    Well you’re a clown. Greens are ultra woke.

  35. Cath says:

    I may have to vote Green for the constituency. That registers as a vote for independence without any risk of actually electing anyone insane

    Um, I suggest you look a bit more closely at the Greens. They’re the epicentre of insane for al this nonsense.

  36. Anne says:

    Compare and contrast the position of the Spanish Socialist Party. If only we had such a party here.

  37. And Spouse says:

    So I as a member had a democratic (NOT) decision made for me at NEC. Then it’s been changed after! Is that democratic? Is any of this democratic?
    Even “the blether” doesn’t allow discussion! You can’t comment. I thought a blether was an open discussion? All those years I’ve got that wrong! Should we not call it “the lecture”

  38. John Martini says:

    … the people who were put in the camps then were Communists. Who cared about them? We knew it, it was printed in the newspapers. Who raised their voice, maybe the Confessing Church? We thought: Communists, those opponents of religion, those enemies of Christians—”should I be my brother’s keeper?”

  39. Fanana Bama says:

    I feel so sorry for the next generation coming up, they’re going to be so confused when it comes to hooking up and starting a family:

    “Doctor, we’ve been unable to conceive a baby.”

    “That’s because you’re both biologically male.”

    “no, I’m a man and my wife is a woman.”

    “No, your wife is a biologically male”

    “Biological? What’s that? She’s not a man”

    “It’s a taboo science thing. It explains how men and women reproduce.”

    “But we are a man and a woman. You need a man and a woman to reproduce. That’s what I learned in school.”

    “No, you’re both biological men. You both have penises and testes.”

    “No, I’m a man with a penis, my wife is a woman with a penis. And even if we weren’t, everyone knows men can have babies now.”

    “Yes but those men who have babies are actually biological women.”

    “OMG, I’m reporting you to the police for a hate crime! I demand a second opinion from a doctor that isn’t a transphobe!”

  40. Betty Boop says:

    Have they defined “trans” anything? Surely the “trans” part is taken from “transition”. If not altered physically can something.someone transition to some be something different?

    All very confusing…

  41. Jacqueline McMillan says:

    I have a friend, close female friend who closes her eyes and ears when I tell her the facts about what is going on atm and the consequences. She really, really doesn’t believe me! She doesn’t believe that this could happen, will happen. It’s fantastic she says.

    Still trying to tell her the facts and will continue to do so.

    Crazy world. Let’s see what happens at 14.30 today. Scottish Gov TV

  42. susanXX says:

    Montfleury the Greens are as batshit mental as the SNP on the genderwoowoo front.
    I’m spoiling my constituency vote – sorry Fergus.

  43. Captain Yossarian says:

    THE SNP is so deeply divided it needs a period in opposition to “sort itself out”, one of the leading authorities on the party has said. – The Herald.

    It sounds to me as if it’s all coming to a head. Everyone knows a few things that others don’t. A lot of it will come-out over the next two weeks and we will be rid of Sturgeon and her coterie of witches. (and her fat husband too, of course)

  44. Strathy says:

    There will be no restrictions on the SNP and their clique though.

    They will retain the right to call people anything they like.

  45. Jacqueline McMillan says:

    Yes. Unless there is a massive seismic shift my intention is to spoil my 1st with a long note and vote ISP for 2nd

  46. David R says:

    Bat shit crazy doesn’t come close enough. Unfortunately this is not just in Scotland however other countries have some opposition to it.

  47. Black Joan says:

    Any chance of one of the Covid Quine’s entourage of medics being asked about this at a Q & A session? Is Scotland’s entire medical profession on board with belief in biology being a hate crime?

  48. Ian says:

    Is this situation going on worldwide? Mississippi (not exactly the most progressive US State) has banned transgender athletes on female teams. The Republican controlled state Senate on Thursday passed this by 34-9. This follows on from Democratic President Joe Biden signing an executive order on Jan. 20, the day he took office, that bans discrimination based on gender identity in school sports and elsewhere.

  49. Ricky says:

    Have the SNP confirmed that they plan to legislate to make this a legally enforceable definition? I thought it was “merely” meant to be used to police internal dissent within the party in the same way the IHRA definition of antisemitism has been adopted by several parties without being legislated for? Clearly important either way but there’s a big difference between being expelled from a political party and being imprisoned for 7 years.

  50. Calum says:

    “terror network” – that’s one for your Twitter bio. Oh, wait…

  51. FrankM says:

    There are many reasons why I will not vote for the SNP now and those mentioned above are just some. I will vote only ISP on the list vote.

    It is inconceivable for me to now vote for a party that is totally unworthy and has Obviously lost its reason. Scotland has no future if this is what independence will look like. Of course, independence was never the intention anyway.

    I am totally suspicious of the people at the top of this undemocratic party. They have their members under control and on their knees worshipping their leader. It has become, to all intents and purposes, a religion. It has all the characteristics.

    Those who are decent politicians have been and are being hounded out. The game is up and we are lost. The only thing we have left is the Union, which we were promised we would come out of if we were forced to leave Europe. So much for promises.

    Unless ……? We start again. From scratch? Scotland is naturally a divided nation. We have to cure our sores and ulcers before we can move forward. Today I am very sad.
    I’m off to read Animal Farm again. When will we ever learn?

  52. Astonished says:

    My first vote will be spoiled with ” I wont vote woke”. The second goes to ISP.

  53. Lindy says:

    The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

    George Orwell, 1984

  54. robbo says:

    The human species will die out in less than a 100 years. All babies will come from test tubes for the ultra woke rich.

    “In the year 2525, if man is still alive and women can survive”

    I think Sager & Evans were a wee bit out on dates.

  55. Stuart Anderson says:

    I support independence but not at any cost. If this is what an independent Scotland is going to look like then you can count me out.

  56. ahundredthidiot says:

    The SNP is completely lost. Controlled from Whitehall with an agenda to utterly discredit their own Party and ultimately the desire for Scottish Independence.

    Either that, or Lucifer himself (or herself?) is calling the shots.

    Can we call them ‘science-deniers’ now?

    The SNP is now a dangerous, dangerous Cult.

  57. Bob Mack says:

    “Thou shall not be a victim,.Thou shall not be a perpetrator,but,above all,thou shall not be a bystander” Yehudi Bauer.

  58. Captain Yossarian says:

    ‘As a result, if there is any justice in the world, the next few weeks should certainly help finish the Nats. The whole squalid catalogue of claim and counterclaim – initially centred on accusations of sexual assault, we should remember, by several women – has been played out before an SNP-dominated Holyrood committee. Its proceedings have been bedevilled by a catalogue of official obfuscation, obstruction, half-truths and even a claim of perjury against one senior nationalist, who just happens to be Sturgeon’s husband. He denies lying.’ – Alan Cochrane, The Daily Telegraph

  59. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Have they defined “trans” anything? Surely the “trans” part is taken from “transition”. If not altered physically can something.someone transition to some be something different?”

    Definition now edited in.

  60. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Have the SNP confirmed that they plan to legislate to make this a legally enforceable definition? I thought it was “merely” meant to be used to police internal dissent within the party”

    It’s perhaps worth noting that the final version has also removed the “non-legally-binding” line that was in the draft. But in any case the SNP could hardly legislate for a definition of transphobia that was different to their own internal one.

  61. Lindy says:

    I just want to thank you Stu for keeping us informed.
    Without you the Party would be doing all this stuff in secret.
    Also thanks to the principled members of the Party who are whistle blowers. They also make us aware of the shameful things taking place under the ordinary member’s radar.

    Eternally grateful for your courage, and for taking all the flack for keeping us informed

  62. ahundredthidiot says:

    Spoil 1
    ISP 2

  63. Bob Mack says:


    I wonder if Alex Salmond said that to himself? We know how that turned out

  64. Morag says:

    Until I saw this I had intended to vote SNP for my constituency, because although she has been very ambivalent about the whole thing, positively cowardly in fact, Christine Grahame actually did sign that letter.

    However after this I think I have to spoil my constituency vote with something like “human beings can’t change sex”. If you’d told me five years ago that in 2021 I might be considering not voting for the SNP at all, I’d have laughed in your face.

  65. Breeks says:

    And to think, not so long ago we were all giggling at the DUP and their Creationism.

    Now, thanks to Sturgeon and her weirdos, the irrational stupidity of the unhinged few makes the whole of Scotland look backward and uneducated, governed by tribal shamanism and pseudoscience, and an international laughing stock. Well done Sturgeon. Give yourself a pay rise why don’t you?

  66. Robinov Vilecybernatski says:

    But but but we can sort this mess out after Indy screamed the wheesht Mob because a corrupt cabal of miscreants are always going to just give up their power once they hold absolutely every single one of the cards, table and dealer to boot!!!!

    Fucking sick of being referred to as a Yoon because the same questioning personality that led me to the Yes Movement in the first place hasn’t gone away!!!

  67. Ian says:

    Have you seen the new (apparently not from the SNP) website,

    For something that claims not to be from the SNP, they’ve certainly done their best to make it look like it is. Even the Twitter link at the bottom of the page links to “”, which doesn’t exist. The other Twitter link on the page links to their actual Twitter account. Seems they had a change of heart about their Twitter name.

    Captured the front page here with the incorrect Twitter link for posterity (

  68. Ruby says:

    Is using the term ‘transwoman’ a hate crime?

    ‘transwoman’ code for ‘biological male’?

  69. “You can dig up a million-year-old skeleton and immediately determine with 100% certainty whether it was male or female.”

    A similar statement came up on Facebook a while back and someone had a brilliant response to it which I wish I’d thought of and could claim the credit for:

    “Have you never heard of a Trannysaurus Rex?”

  70. David Caledonia says:

    If you said a man cannot call himself a woman, and you where taken to court for that, what judge or jury can say that what you said was an illegal act
    Would never happen, because its true

  71. Robert says:

    1) Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this definition unconstitutional as it hasn’t been passed by the SNP conference but only by the NEC?
    2) How can the trans extremists still have a majority on the NEC, anyhow? Didn’t most of them get voted out?
    3) In Edinburgh Central, where the SNP “cherrymandered” the vote to prevent Joanna Cherry from standing as the SNP candidate, I intend to write her name on the ballot paper. Anyone know how this vote would be counted? (i.e. Is it counted as a spoiled ballot paper, or as a valid vote, since my voting intention is unequivocal?)

  72. Jim Tadgercock says:

    I get the feeling the Murrells couldn’t give a monkeys about trains people or rights, but this proposed legislation will be handy for shutting down pesky sites like Wings. I also see the SNP as the Murrells own cottage industry with independence as a troublesome by product that should be kicked into the long grass to insure the future success of the said industry. So its no votes SNP for me and ISP list.I hope Wee Eck gives them their tatties on Wednesday .

  73. Ricky says:

    Thanks for your response Stu. So we’re agreed that it isn’t “literally a legal prohibition on reality” then, at least not at this point?

  74. BoredHousewife says:

    We all know how this affects women and girls, but where does it leave transsexuals who used to have to sign a disclaimer that they knew they weren’t actually changing sex? Surely it belittles their struggle with body dysmorphia and eventual transition? Will they too be expelled from the party for stating a truth that enables them to centre their own experiences?

  75. David Earl says:

    Constituency (Falkirk): A cock & balls doodle with “I’m a lady” written

    Regional (Central): ISP

  76. Craig Sheridan says:

    I’ll still be voting SNP for the constituency from an indy first perspective. Like you say, this science denying nonsense is not permanent, it’ll catch up with them in the end one way or another. I never thought SNP would be a hold the nose vote but its now exactly that.

  77. Betsy says:

    There is potential for a spoiled paper to be counted generally in a close vote. For example if someone didn’t put a cross beside a candidate but wrote SNP on the paper that could be well be seen as a clear intent to vote SNP and count towards their vote. It would be a lot harder to argue that simply writing Cherry could be seen as an SNP vote when she’s not even on the paper but I wouldn’t put the attempt past them. Might be better to write something like Cherry-never Robertson so there’s not even a sliver of ambiguity.

  78. Sue Varley says:

    Last week I was asking on here whether I should vote for Kate Forbes in the constituency to try and decrease the chance of getting Rhianon Spear on the list. The consensus was to vote for Forbes.

    Since then Forbes has (somewhat) endorsed Spear, and now the SNP have come out with this. I now intend to abstain on the constituency and vote whoever supports independence and stands most chance of being elected on the list. I am done with the SNP in any shape or form until this lunacy is denounced and disowned by the party.

  79. Breeks says:

    Thing is, I can’t see any of this deluded Trans fundamentalism actually doing anything to further the interests of Trans people. In fact, the angry backlash against this grotesque madness and abuse of democracy might even drive transactivism underground in fear of a good kicking in some rougher quarters.

    Instead, the whole idiocy of it all seems expressly calculated to discredit the SNP and make it unelectable, and thus it leads you to the conclusion there must be a Unionist / Establishment iron in the fire somewhere, otherwise why in god’s name is anybody with half a brain cell putting up with it?

    The SNP wasn’t elected to serve up this bollocks. They’re skiing waaay off piste with no mandate from the electorate for this garbage. Where’s our fkg referendum? Can’t we sue these fraudsters under Trades Description?

  80. I did a report on the wee clypes a couple of years back, Stu. It’s all coming to fruition for the clinically insane.

  81. Mac says:

    Ehhh my latin is not great but should that not be ‘Trannysaurus Regina’ Dave, you mis-gendering cad you.

  82. robbo says:

    Craig S

    Are you sure you still have a nose- checks mirror!

    If you vote for this then you condone it as acceptable . It’s not in my eyes.

    Independence is far from their thoughts now. It’s full steam locomotive, no brakes WOKE agenda, I’m sorry to say.

  83. kapelmeister says:

    What if a bloke in the SNP transitioned and decided to be known as Samantha and a party colleague innocently called them Sam, would that get the colleague chucked oot? Don’t laugh it’s where the SNP are headed.

  84. Cenchos says:

    ‘Women’ is now also a verb, so ‘transwoman’ need not refer to a person

  85. Craig says:

    How ironic that since 2014, all yessers & SNP members were being accused of being part of Nicola’s cult, how we denied it and slowly, because of Stu’s tenacity in exposing stuff that would have been unheard of because of a complicit silence of MSM, We slowly became aware that that the moniker “Cult” was beginning to ring true.

    Thank you WOS for all the hard work, I have now made my family aware and the only way to, at least, damage the SNP is by spoiling the constituency vote and vote for ISP on the list.

  86. Garrion says:

    @Breeks 1:15.
    There’s a direct inverse relationship between how much gender insanity the SNP wallow in and how likely they are to provide a referendum or plebiscite. We voted them in to provide independence. For whatever reasons, scurrilous or treacherous or due to laziness and inadequacy, it has been decided that this is what we get instead.

  87. robertknight says:

    Aye, well, just another one to add to the ever growing list of reasons to justify #NoVotesSNP

    Scratch that!

    Was already covered under reason No.25 #DontVoteWoke

    As you were…

  88. Jim Kennedy says:

    Seven years of listening to your cell mate ‘Whos yer Mama’

  89. A Person says:

    It might just be because I’ve spent so much time reading up on this, but I do feel that this whole sorry saga is coming to its head. There are simply too many people who know that the empress has no clothes.

    The SNP is not a party in any meaningful sense now. By stating that it will pursue independence by a means which cannot possibly succeed, it has de facto renounced independence. So what is left? A cult of personality around Nicola Sturgeon. I hate to sound like some gin-soaked unionist journalist but it is true.

  90. Republicofscotland says:

    So calling a spade a spade will get you around seven years in the jail. The SNP are slowly but surely eroding women’s rights in Scotland, and if you speak up about it, such as Joanna Cherry has, you’ll receive death threats and be the subject of a witch hunt by the SNP.

    Real biological women must surely see where this is leading to, not only will their rights be degraded, but their safe spaces will be invaded. I’ll be surprised if biological women vote for the SNP in May’s elections, and as you point out the Greens are even more woke than the SNP, and the BritNat parties, Labour, Lib/Dems and the Tories all take their orders from Westminster, which wants to crush Scottish independence and keep Scots and Scotland subdued in this horrendously one sided union.

  91. BaronessSamedi says:

    There’s talk among the young folk about how loads of other countries have adopted relaxed GR acts. Have any of them got a similar definition of transphobia and would a comparison be useful?

  92. Frank Gillougley says:

    Oh Fuck it. The earth IS flat and emdy who thinks otherwise is less than human.

    Ther ye go, that’s that sorted.

  93. Scozzie says:

    Those who are intending to spoil their constituency ballot should all write on it : Woman = adult human female.
    Little bit of civil disobedience while voting might help ease the pain.

    Compelled speech is bad enough but FFS denying science has got to be an act of sheer lunacy.

    Got to give NS credit for something – it has only taken 6 years to turn the SNP from a credible and competent party to a demented husk of a party. Fucking radio rentals the lots of them!

  94. Mac says:

    Not to mention the small matter Breeks of atom bombing the independence movement in order to jail one innocent man who NS felt threatened her position as wrecker-in-chief.

    It is laughable now to still believe this is just a series of unfortunate mistakes by Nicola.

    It has been full spectrum poisoning of the independence movement’s wells and salting of the independence movement’s fields since day one. She is now going for it in her final time before no doubt one last major act of sabotage.

    The Salmond stitch-up was supposed to be the show piece in her destruction of the independence movement. Instead it is her Waterloo. The damage inflicted is still immense.

  95. Allan Stewart says:

    Here’s hoping the Scottish Law Commission comes to the rescue again and saves the SNP from itself. None of this will fly.

  96. WT says:

    It is very disappointing to see the YES movement being so split by three main issues: Salmond – Sturgeon the GRA reforms and the removal of decision making from the membership to the NEC. The trouble is that these are being conflated with the aim of independence. yes, you are right the SNP have us over a barrel but we really do have to take it for the sake of independence anything else is just to undermine the cause as badly as anything the SNP have done. Look at what we are talking about here: first of all the things the Stuart highlights are internal SNP machinations NOT laws. All parties are facing this just now (except Tories). Look at Labour in England the trans issue is already alight down there as is the left right debacle and the anti-semitism fracas. Call the SNP bluff – vote for them in May as a vote towards independence. There are two eyes on this our own and the UK government – don’t gift the UK politicos and media the chance to say we voted against the SNP and thus against independence.

    Whenever you vote for a party you have to swallow a lot of crap but on balance you vote for the one that advances your cause or your interests the most. Once independence is acheived any crappy issues can be dealt with.

    If the SNP do not deliver after May then that is the time to create a new entity that will fight for independence. There would be enough time to get this going especially if some of the disenchanted or possibly ‘soon-to-be-exiled’present incumbents of the SNP moved over to a new or already existing entity such as the ISP. We have to give this one last push. We have to or WE will be the ones who destroy our chance of independence.

  97. Cenchos says:

    This whole thing is a set-up for a pre-election Tory anti-woke campaign.

  98. iain MacGillivray says:

    We need a new INDY Party now, c’mon Alex and crew, get it formed, crowdfund it and watch the tsunami of support. SNP is gone, completely taken over and out. A vote for them supports GRA/HCB and condones the AS Conspiracy. Sad that it has come to this, and isn’t the timing amazing – as if it were all planned. They really have done a job on us but we will overcome this and have our Indy, and be the better for it without this utter pile around our neck.

  99. JB says:

    So do we now have to refer to people as having a given genotype and/or phenotype?

    Or possibly as XX vs XY?

    So a male to female transsexual (i.e. XY) individual would be male genotype but female phenotype; whereas a male who’d not altered their body would be both male genotype (XY) and male phenotype, but merely self identifying as a woman.

  100. Gordon T says:

    I don’t care if you like to wear dresses. I don’t care if you want everyone to call you “she” and “her”. I don’t care if you want to have boobs or not, cut your d*ck off or not.

    I don’t even care if you want to call yourself a woman, though I’d expect the current group known as women to have a strong opinion on whether that should be so, and you’d need their agreement for any change. As a male man, I feel it’d be rude (at the very least) of me to have a say on such things.

    I’d agree with all the above, smile, and wish you a happy life, acceptance and love from society and readily side with you against your detractors.

    However, insist that I deny the fact that you’re an XY chromosome born male? GTF. I can’t accept it because it’s not true, and no amount of legislation will make it so. If YOU can’t accept it and insist the world bends to your fantasy, then you’re in dire need of psychiatric help.

    It’s in the very word “trans”. You can’t be “trans” if you haven’t crossed over/from something “else”.


  101. Betsy says:

    I would never vote Tory but I can see them picking up a good few votes on a campaign based around free speech etc. I can’t see it being enough to risk a Tory win in Scotland but it’s a worry nevertheless.

  102. Menstruator says:

    “It robs anyone of even the right to simply describe a transwoman as what they are – a biological male. It is literally a legal prohibition on reality.”

    And it means that no discussion of policies around transwomen in sport, prisons, refuges or hospitals can be had.

    Because you can’t have a discussion about the physical advantages of a transwoman sprinter or rugby player if you can’t mention the fact that biologically they are male.

    The poster upthread who asked if this was legally enforceable – Maya Forstater lost her job for saying that sex couldn’t be changed, men couldn’t become women in any physical reality, took it to a tribunal for unfair dismissal and lost. The courts are enforcing this stuff. If a rapist transitions between alleged attack and trial under guidelines in England the victim will be required to refer to her attacker as a woman. Not sure about the Scots courts.

  103. Stu, if you never saw my new blog post earlier, I updated it to include today’s vile National propagandist smear attack on you. That fucking filth enraged me. There’s some sort of concerted censorship attempt going on, more and more I am convinced of it. Either that or it’s just our dumb fuck government blindly following America again. Choose your anti-intellectual, censorious poison.

  104. Robert says:

    Thanks — but for clarity, there’s no possibility of my vote being counted FOR Cherry as a write-in, as is possible in some places, e.g. in the US.?
    (I’ll do it all the same and for clarity, write JOANNA CHERRY NOT ROBERTSON)

  105. ebreah says:

    Mac says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:16 pm
    Ehhh my latin is not great but should that not be ‘Trannysaurus Regina’ Dave, you mis-gendering cad you.


    Thank you for that very very good laugh.

    (From behind a prison bar)

  106. PhilM says:

    Apologies if this is a repetition of anyone else’s points above.
    If this becomes law, how exactly would a future administration ever be able to change it? Any policy paper, any debate, would have to tread on the most precarious ground even to begin to discuss what might be wrong with such a law without incurring threats emanating from all directions, yet this new definition appears to be pushed by a tiny undemocratic clique within the SNP. There is almost no support for this from the wider public. As coups go, this is a spectacular success.
    Now let’s say five years have passed, the passage of time has given a little perspective on how this law has operated but people will have been jailed as a result of this law, and you’re a novelist, playwright, or film director or an academic, how would you be able to write about this with any attempt at comprehensiveness without incurring all kinds of threats?
    Will we be looking at building yet another Cornton Vale for the many women who may wish to defend the rights they fought for over two centuries but who will now face prison time if they say one newly illegal thing in defence of biological reality?

  107. JB says:

    I do find the use of “cis” and “trans” in this political identity politics stuff a bit weird, but then my first experience of the terms comes from organic chemistry:

    The prefixes “cis” and “trans” are from Latin: “this side of” and “the other side of”, respectively.

    i.e.trans is used in the sense of transverse

  108. Stuart MacKay says:

    Robert Grant @12:27pm

    Thanks for posting that. It’s an important lesson that needs repeating, particularly as a lot of the “why not” support comes from people with an optimistic view of masculinity. It’s a rather naive position and when this one goes wrong it will only be because the lessons of history were ignored.

  109. Republicofscotland says:

    Just read the Stephen Paton article in the National, and I found it insulting lumping Wings Over Scotland in with Tommy Robinson, and his racist group.

    Its akin to the vile article that had Alex Salmond pictured along with the sex beasts in a derogatory article suggesting Salmond was akin to them, and Paton draws the same line here with Wings, as a kind of far right fascist blog.

    This is a huge own goal by the National newspaper, and I for one will no longer purchase it on a daily basis, I’m pretty sure from what I’ve seen on social media neither will quite a few other folk be buying it.

    The National newspaper, has been shying away from the truth in recent months, of what been going on within the SNP, it beginning to no longer feel relevant, as it did after 2014, especially on the SNP.

    Read Wings instead if you seek the truth.

  110. Gribble says:

    Is it actually possible to spoil your ballot for the constituency vote and still have it valid for the list?

    In the same boat as many commenting above, except I would rather not have indy at all if it’s founded on this level of batshittery and corruption. It will come, but if it comes with this lot it will be no better than staying in the cesspit of the union.

    Still struggling to be;ieve it has come to this, and in such a short timespan.

  111. Menstruator says:

    @baronesssamedi, 1.26

    Other countries have brought in Self-ID but the rule about “wider trans people” means that no discussion can be had about whether there have been any negative consequences for women and girls.

    It will now be Transphobic to discuss whether there are any lessons to be learnt from Canadian transwoman Jessica Yaniv’s legal action using equality laws against female beauticians who declined to wax her ladyballs. It will be transphobic to discuss whether Ireland’s decision to allocate to prisons based on self-ID, which has allowed Barbie Kardashian to request detention in the female estate despite her track record of extreme violence against women, puts women and girls at any increased risk.

  112. Mia says:

    “the SNP have us over a barrel but we really do have to take it for the sake of independence”

    Absolutely not. If we “take it” independence will never happen and women’s rights will be destroyed. I am sorry but the SNP is not worth that much.

    If we want independence, the SNP must go. The worse thing you can do for independence is to give this brigade of lunatics and science deniers a majority in May and control over the levers of power. We have already seen the consequences and the destruction of the credibility of COPFS and the police with the present narcissist in power. Can you imagine how it would be if this lunatics are given control over it?

    The SNP under Sturgeon has failed at every opportunity to deliver what they were elected to deliver and instead, have used our votes to foist on us this lunacy. Why should we have any loyalty for a party that has been so evidently disloyal to us and their main aim of independence? We owe them nothing, so the party can burn in hell.

    Now, has any of the 3 allegedly pro indy parties running in the list finally found the balls to allow us to vote for independence or they are still hoping to fool us as into voting for them to prop up by the back door this science denying lunacy and destruction of women’s rights by the SNP?

    Anybody advocating for us to vote SNP in the constituency in its present state cannot possibly be serious about independence and frankly, cannot be deemed as having much in terms of common sense.

    But equally, any so called pro-indy party that is still expecting us to believe after this that the reason why they are not including the plebiscite in their manifesto is because they are relying on this crooked version of the SNP to be rational and deliver a referendum they have no interest in delivering, is either deluding themselves or attempting to fool us too.

    Either the pro indy parties running in the list bite the bullet and include in their manifesto a vote for independence, or there is absolutely no point whatsoever for even bothering to approach the polls.

    If the choice we want is deliberately made unavailable to us to force us to vote for what we don’t want, our best and only rational response is to refuse taking part in the game.

  113. Effijy says:

    So if a born female is ra*ed by a cock in a frock
    she could face charges for saying he then inserted his penis?

    If a cock in a frock wins the women’s 100 meters race and undergoes
    tests after the race, the Lab Technician could go to jail for saying tests
    show the winner to be a man?

    Cock in frock gets drunk and streaks naked thru the city.
    Policeman arrests the culprit and logs in his note book that
    HE was waving his penis at passers by.
    Is the policeman then arrested for not calling the culprit she?

    Absolutes insanity by SNP.
    Shelf destruction on a level never seen before by a political party.

    By not voting for SNP I’ll be letting in the Tories to govern Scotland.
    I’d cut my own balls off before letting that happen.
    Ruthless, Carless, Annie brain dead Wells, Murder Fraser, Prof Bodkin.
    That’s a horror movie too far to contemplate.

    Rev, do you think getting an SNP majority forces Indy Ref 2, and then these clowns we put in
    can be removed in our country’s first elections as an independent nation?
    political party

  114. MaggieC says:

    The Snp have have now lost my family’s votes over the GRA reforms and the HCB and that’s after most of us voting for them for 40 years .

    It’s time for Nicola Sturgeon and her woke cabal to go and get the party back to it’s reason for it’s existence and that’s to get Independence for Scotland .

    Here’s the to the Women’s pledge group for anyone that’s not signed it yet and I’m asking you to sign it now please .

  115. Betsy says:

    Unfortunately no. If a vote can’t be allocated to a candidate it’s just counted as spoiled.

  116. Tom R says:

    Denying scientific fact? This is a BIG vote loser, I haven’t spoke to anyone who isn’t shocked & angry about it. Our party is being TRANSformed into a joke by a determined misogynistic clique. I fear the more these trans/activists lash out and irritate the vast majority of ordinary people, the bigger the backlash will be against ordinary transexuals trying to get on with their lives.

  117. MaggieC says:

    Me @ 1.50 pm

    I missed out the word link

    * Here’s the LINK to *

  118. ScottieDog says:

    “ The National basically calls us a “terror network” today…”
    Glad I don’t buy it anymore..

  119. Harry mcaye says:

    Is Montfleury the most un-ALERT reader in the blog’s history?

  120. wulls says:

    This is utterly fuckin incredible……
    I’m an SNP member……so…..
    What can they do when I tell a trans person with make up and a cock they are still biologically male ?????
    Can they sent me to jail ?????? Nope.
    Can they fine me ?????? Nope.
    Can they impose a CS order on me ???? Nope.

    So what can they do ???????
    They can kick me out the SNP that’s what.
    Thats fair enough although to be frank I’m going to save them the bother.
    The only sanction they can impose on me is fining themselves about £15 a year 🙂 🙂 🙂

    Fuck sake………

  121. Ian Brotherhood says:

    We must have a full investigation and it should be carried out by Charlie Farley and Piggy Malone, two famous female sleuths from the early 1970s.

  122. Jacqueline McMillan says:

    Lost mine and my family’s vote. My Son, God bless him told me what would ensue about 4 years ago. He HATES POLITICS AND POLITICIANS AND THE WOO WOO. He’s just an ordinary bloke (man, viking beardy ;))

    Wings is so popular I’m all over the place! Different lines. Which is good, not sure which line I’m on 😉

  123. Robert graham says:

    Aye well
    My vote is not the SNPs property
    And I reserve the right to cast it where I see fit
    So far the SNP policies and proposed new legislation that are engineered to operate in tandem , don’t suit me I don’t agree with any of them, the new legislation will allow anyone to be whatever they want to be because they just have to believe it’s their right I don’t have any voice or opinion on the matter , this right will be enforced in Law .
    Hence the duel pronged construction of the proposed legislation , if the first one misses you the second one won’t , heads you lose, tails you lose. It’s that bloody dangerous ,
    As for the Independence referendum we all know that’s a distant dream a carrot to be used to take the piss when the grumbling starts well you have played that card to often sweetie it won’t work again ,
    Kind regards a previous SNP supporter and voter

  124. Big Jock says:

    Sturgeon is whacko.

    We now have the thought police like Humsa delivering their masters poisoned messages. We are now being told what we can and can’t read. Wings is being labelled as alt right, by the same people in Bella who warned 5 years ago that the SNP was in danger of losing it’s purpose. Bella has become part of the machine, the machine that is eating away our freedoms.

    How in God’s name did it come to this. It’s insane, completely insane!

    Stasi would have been proud.

  125. Graham says:

    There’s no mystery here; Sturgeon has created a vehicle on which she can ride the wave of gender woo-woo identity politics. But why & for what ends?

    Really simple to explain. Just look at what Farage did; he, with help from a Eurosceptic London media & Establishment, created a bogey man – immigration. Those in favour of restricting movement were considered patriots. Those against were considered unpatriotic- anti British if you will. It worked. We’re out of Europe. The economic devastation that followed is irrelevant to them.

    Hitler’s Germany successfully created a vehicle of hate through the trope of blaming Jews for the country’s economic woes & post WW1 misery. It was a false flag of course but effective all the same. That he created plenty of reasons for the allies to wage war against him was simply considered as a duty to protect and where possible, expand his German empire.

    Sturgeon is simply copying this phenomena; creating a bogey man, jeered on my a small but vocal & highly motivated group of extremists, mostly creepy men of course. Anyone who questions this is now labeled as a far right, rabble rouser who hates minorities & has an agenda contrary to the desire for equality.

    It’s an obvious false flag but with the support of her acolytes in Government, she appears determined to establish her extreme views through the passing of legislation.

    Once that has passed, she can then focus on exterminating those considered a threat to her authority. She’ll have learned from her mistakes in the Salmond debacle but won’t repeat them next time because she’ll have Acts of Parliament to back her up.

    We are entering a dangerous period in Scottish politics where an unchallenged tyrant will seek whatever measures she can muster to solidify her power base & use the corrupt Crown Prosecution Services to silence here critics.

    Consider this message as a warning of the consequences of voting incorrectly in the May election, assuming of course that she chooses to proceed with actually having one.

  126. Big Jock says:

    Wulls – I left the SNP at the weekend after 30 years, but they don’t care!

  127. Menstruator says:

    @effijy, 1.50 – this rapist had to be addressed in court as a woman. The newspaper ties itself in knots trying to report the case. The headline is “Transgender rapist – with anatomy of a man- jailed for 15 years”

  128. Ruby says:

    Dear transphobes

    Do you think it’s right to push transgender people around in clubs?

    The question I would ask transgender people would be:

    ‘Do you think it’s right to pretend to be something you’re not in clubs where most people are looking for a partner?

    Why would it be wrong for a heterosexual male to push you away when he discovered you had a penis?

    Or in the case of homosexual men when he discovered you had a vagina.

  129. Menstruator says:

    @wulls, 1.58

    When the Hate Crime Bill goes through, damn right they will put you in jail for misgendering someone.

  130. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I want legal protection for my beliefs I think there are fairies in the forest, I know that the earth is flat.

    I need legal protection from the bigots who laugh at my beliefs.

    I was going to hold my nose, with pliers, and vote SNP first vote that now cannot be the case. Very sad.

    We need to now accept the English are going to continue stealing from us until the new party is on its feet.

    I still can’t believe that this is happening.

  131. Boudicca says:

    SNP – Science Negating Party.
    How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?

  132. Teetering says:

    Is there a link to the source of the final published version? No sign of it on MySNP.

  133. Sheepshagger says:

    Tacking a Greek suffix onto a Latin prefix produces nonsense words but as everybody is doing it shouldn’t cisphobia be crime as well.

  134. Career Politician says:

    If Monica Lennon wins the Labour leadership contest I might consider voting for the Labour candidate in my constituency.

    But I believe that the current generation of the SNP must be punished by the electorate for the nonsense that they’ve been up to for the last 6 years – I actually think it’s worse than Brexit.

    I don’t agree with Stu’s opinion that voting for the Tories is “a totally unconscionable evil under any circumstances”, and am prepared to lend them my vote to help give the SNP a bloody nose (please don’t sue Mr. Murrell, I mean that metaphorically).

  135. Mighty S says:

    Let’s see. If the SNP do get a majority (which could still happen, cos not everyone is on soshe meja) then we’ll definitely get the GRA’s slammed through and the Hate Crime Bill passed. This will mean women will lose their rights and the rest of Scotland will lose any right to complain…about anything, lest they be jailed. It’ll be perma-SNP devolution until WM eventually suspend HR and/or we all die.

    If the SNP get another minority, the GRA will get pushed through and so will the HCB, see above for further consequences. If other iParties manage to gain some seats through the list, would there be enough of them to stop horrific policies from being passed through parliament IF teamed with Tory MSPs? Of course, that depends on how many MSP’s are left.

    If the SNP scrape a meagre minority (I can’t see Greens garnering enough seats to help improve upon such a meagre minority, but…you never know) could there be a chance that the unionist parties could form a ruling coalition?

    I know it’s bad, I just wonder if there’s still a way we can vote to our advantage. Like even a small advantage. A sliver of light in a blackened sky.
    So that we don’t feel so bloody powerless.

  136. alba says:

    No. Not any more. I’ve said frequently here that bad laws can be removed and much better to have the SNP in power than any alternative party, as a broken life is harder to mend.

    However….at some point the average punter is gonna wake up to the shitshow that runs the SNP, and will not like what they see.

    And whether we like it or not, they will see the SNP party as THE independence party. Chances are pretty high their conclusion “fuck that for a game of soldiers” will apply equally to the SNP party and any future referendum.

    Only way to prevent this scenario is to remove the SNP government from Edinburgh; for it not only stops this pish in its tracks but if enough of MSPs fall, our SNP MPs might have a damascian conversion and pull back from this shit – self preservation is a wonderful thing.

    Given the choice of postponing a referendum for a few years or knackering any chance of it ever succeeding…..its not enough now to even abstain.

  137. Bob W says:


    As I recall there are two ballot papers, one for constituency and one for list.

  138. Al Swann says:

    Is this a deliberate attempt to lose the election? That could make a number of problems go away or look a lot smaller if they are back in opposition. The level of public consciousness of this issue and the problems it entails is rising daily.

  139. Cenchos says:

    Odd how these trans allies let themselves be dictated to by a someone who IDs as a white middle-class cis woman . Very odd indeed.

  140. Neil Wilkinson says:

    ” the sex they were assigned at birth ”

    is patent bollocks, nobody is assigned their sex, that makes it sound like there is a conscious decision by a person with a clipboard. There is no choice , you’re either XX or XY (I recognise there may be very odd exceptions )

  141. Linny says:

    As a new reader of your site, I have had a good explore and can’t help but wonder if the “Thickos” page needs updating. (Yeah I know, I read it just in case….)

    And keep up the good work!

  142. Al Dente says:

    Is tranny trouble really the greatest challenge facing Scotland in 2021?

  143. George Clark says:

    Typical male response.

  144. mr thms says:

    I posted in the recent article about the SNP’s definition of transphobia, that it was similar to the definition of transphobia published by the Lib-Dem’s last September. An example, highlighted in today’s article is also similar to an example used by the Lib-Dem for their article.

    “Using phrases or language to describe trans people which are designed to suggest that trans people are a separate category of person from the gender they identify as or that their gender identity is not valid. Current examples include referring to a trans woman or non-binary person as a “biological man” or a trans man or non-binary person as a “biological woman”, which eradicates the trans person’s gender identity in favour of their biology at birth.”

  145. A Person says:

    -WT at 1.30-

    “The SNP have us over a barrel”

    Sorry to use such a tasteless analogy, but that is just the mentality of the battered wife who’ll never leave. So many people, myself included, have told themselves for years that the SNP were the party of independence, would strive for independence, and that Nicola Sturgeon is a nice, sensible woman who’ll get us there, that to confront the reality- that there is no desire or plan to attain independence, and that Sturgeon is a nascent dictator- is too painful for them. So they rationalise it away.

    Once you accept that the SNP have zilch interest in attaining Indy you will find precious few reasons to vote for them. Indeed there are a great many reasons not to vote for them.

    Also despite having supported independence my whole adult life I am not honestly sure it is worth THIS. An Orwellian society.

  146. Stephen Welsh (XY) says:

    As a sign of protest against science denial (too much of that going around), I’ve updated my twitter name with (XY) to indicate I’m a biological male. Call me he/she/prick that doesn’t offend me, its the denial of reality that I find truly offensive.

  147. Effijy, spot on. The only way to deal with this insane rampant cockshock arseholery is to piss on it, or take the piss out of it, but definitely not let it piss us off. Go on, let them fucking arrest us. What a fucking joke.

  148. Ruby says:

    Menstruator says:
    22 February, 2021 at 2:02 pm
    @wulls, 1.58

    When the Hate Crime Bill goes through, damn right they will put you in jail for misgendering someone.

    If you weren’t a political opponent then why would they do that?

    Perhaps the solution to all this madness is that we all start misgendering people.

    We could start with Nicolas & Petra.

  149. Lawrence says:

    I know time is against us, but if we can get shot of this lunatic within the month, then I STILL think there is time to get an Indy minded leader in place in time for the Holyrood election.

  150. Anonymoose says:

    “Trans as a term is used to describe people whose genderis not the same as or does not sit comfortably with the sex they were assigned at birth.

    Do these biological science deniers honestly believe that when you are born, when your mother (a biological female) gives birth to you, that your sex is assigned at the very moment you start breathing air of your own volition?

    A human beings sex is decided by the very DNA that makes up their being, it is determined long before birth, it is not assigned, it is determined by the biological fusing of the DNA from the biological male and biological female who had sexual intercourse and concieved as a result of that intimate primal encounter.

    This entire document as well as it’s authors (looking at you Jennifer Dempsie/Robertson & others) is full of delusion, it’s authors should be ejected from the SNP for being complete lunatics.

    This is the type of shit that people should be locked up for, they are riding roughshod over everyones human rights with this pish, riding roughshod over equality rights, both of which rights the trans-[insert applicable XX/XY term here] minority already have.

    The mind boggles such is the lunacy of this document.

  151. Tackety Beets says:

    Every time this subject arrives on Wings I consider writing a post, but stop after a few sentences as it’s hard to know WTF we can say/type that is actually correct. It’s going to be an effin minefield.

    This was my first experience about 10 years ago.

    I will use different names for obvious reasons.

    My business had clients who reflect society, all types Inc guys who would sometimes wear “more female” clothing etc, that’s fine by us.

    One day a regular, “Jim” popped in & was discussing his requirement with a new start member of staff, Mike.
    Due to the technical nature of Jim’s request I was asked to help. As I was nearby I learnt forward to the appropriate cabinet & produced the part I understood Jim wanted. I handed it to Mike saying “I think that’s what he wants” & returned to my own job.

    An hour or so later, in marches 2 constables, asking for me by name. We moved to the rear of my building. I was unaware of anything so did not think it needed to be overly private.
    They were responding to a complaint from “Jim” as he is no longer Jim but Jane, and I referred to Jane as “He”.
    At first I was listening to the “good cop” trying to explain that “Jane” had been offended etc etc
    I now understood what was going on & rejected the claim I was being “whatever-ist” & was now rejecting that I did/say anything offensive but the other cop butted in “with that attitude we will have no alternative but to arrest you & record you as behaving in a “whatever-phobic” behaviour”
    He was now very serious.

    Anyway I stood my ground and explained Jim has been a patron for years, he used to stay ##### and now stays ###### if he is now Jane, how am I supposed to know?
    Now maybe I was wrong but even now that 2 cops tell me Jim is Jane, I still called him Jim & he!
    The threat of arrest continued as I continued ref to Jim/he and of course they were correcting me.
    Clearly, I do not find it easy to switch immediately.

    This continued for 15/20 mins in the end I said to both cops, “ok, we have known Jim for many years, he visits wearing whatever he is comfortable in, weather it’s a dress, high heals, slip on or wellies, it does not matter to us, Jim is Jim. Now you tell me Jim is now Jane. Now gents what you need to do, is explain to me how in the world am I supposed to know?”
    “In addition because of your visit today, am I expected to apologise to Jane the next time I see him……eh her?”

    That’s a short version, the cops did eventually leave & no further action was taken.
    IMHO, If Jim now wanted to be known as Jane the least she could have done is simply say so.

    I do worry with all this current proposed legislation as above illustrates how easy it is to “get things wrong”

    People are people and currently are able to be whatever type of people they are, not sure why we need more legislation.

  152. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

    I have been hesitating to do this but from the point of view of genetics, the sexes are not absolutely ‘binary’-normally referred to as xy(male) and xx(female)Unfortunately this combination of chromosomes is not absolute. There are a considerable number of variants where people inherit different combinations of sex chromosomes or even partial chromosomes where damage has occurred during the various processes that give rise to sperm or eggs. In addition the very early stages of development do not always result in a body consisting of cells which are all the same(conventional biological thought) This variation is called mosaicism and can occur when either one or the other X chromosome becomes heterochromatic(inactive) forming a cellular structure called a Barr body. A well known chromosomal variant is Klinefelter’s syndrome where anatomical+secondary sexual characteristics present as largely male but a microscopic examination of the karyotype reveals a chromosomal complement of xxy(two ‘male’ chromosomes and one female chromosome). Klinefelter’s usually presents as largely male but are normally infertile or very low fertility. There are also characteristics which are suggestive of a ‘feminised’ phenotype. This is subtle and difficult to identify. It is one of these aspects of an individual that fits with hindsight after a karyotype has been established.
    To complicate matters further it is known that some people
    are mosaic for Klinefelter’s or other chromosomal variations so that their different organ and body tissues have different combination of sex chromosomes. eg skin cells are Xxy and other cell types (mesodermal) are( say) Xxy (capitalised to show difference).
    Complicating further, sometimes there are partial chromosome abnormalities where the chromosome literally breaks into two or more pieces and these can attach to different non-sex chromosomes with variable effects on phenotypes .There are also variants created at the level of DNA. where there are specific genes which relate to how behaviour develops. Sometimes these variations are referred to as epigenetic and occur when the foetus is exposed to environmental influences by (say) disruptive exposure to chemicals. In animals , it is known that typical male and female behaviour can be altered by environmental factors that occur post natally.
    Since the seventies (as many will know) the focus of research in genetics shifted from the ‘gross ‘cytogenetic features to the analysis of DNA- a far more detailed investigative approach. This has meant that the simple ratios of pre seventies ‘mendelian genetics’ has given way to a far more subtle and varied range of phenotypes associated with analysis of the effects of single genes or groups of genes where the DNA sequences have been revealed.
    Concurrently with the huge expansion in understanding of genetics, Foucault and others(Kuhn) began the process of deconstructing the commonly accepted simple scientific categories and related this to the way political power is distributed and structured. Judith Butler came along in the early seventies working from the insights provided by Foucault et al. I have no idea if Butler had any insight into the changes in science of genetics at that time but it certainly fits with her idea of ‘gender fluidity’. I think she had to adopt the more ambiguous word ‘gender’ because sex is very associated with binary or ‘dimorphic’ anatomy. However it was known even then that there were considerable gross ‘ambiguous’ variants where the sex organs and secondary sexual characteristics were not entirely consistent. One piece of salacious hearsay is that the future Duchess of Windsor had been a prostitute in Shanghai catering for a particular group of clients keen to explore this ambiguity due to their own (then illegal) homosexuality.
    The occurrence of these chromosomal and genetic variants is, as far as I can tell, in the order of 1 in 4500 of the population. This is not taking fully into account the variants that may arise post natally due to environmental influences, which I can’t readily find any data on.

    While the science is supportive of the idea of ‘gender fluidity,
    I don’t believe the matter is at all settled. The relationship between the science and political situation is still under close scrutiny and consideration. A lot of the science is not yet settled, and remains elusive, especially the complex interplay of environmental influences both pre-natally and post-natally. There are very many unknowns related to the development of sexual characteristics and behaviour in children. I am aware that the group of people with features that suggest a ‘trans’ or intermediate condition believe that they are denied rights to medical intervention and are subjected to oppression and discrimination. I personally have no experience that supports or contradicts that position but my guess at the ethical position is that these variants fall into a similar category as (say) metabolic or higher order mental developmental disabilities or disorders . We do not find anything at all inconsistent in providing medical and social support to sufferers of conditions such as PKU or cystic fibrosis so it seems consistent and humane to treat sex related variants in a similar way. Of course transitioning sex is complex and hazardous and again we are in an unsettled theoretical and practical framework for dealing with this complex situation. I thought it was interesting that Adam Curtis, in his current BBC series highlights an individual transitioning in the eighties who was unable to find a sympathetic hearing within the NHS and underwent surgery privately but was not successful in coming fully to terms with the changes she/he had wanted, and paid for, showing that the reluctance of some within the medical world is not entirely unjustified.
    This issue is clearly very complex at multiple levels. I wonder if it is not essential for the polarised views held by many people to climb down from their respective high horses and engage with the issues more constructively.
    While I value much of the politics expressed here I think that Stuart Campbell has not got this issue right. By all means challenge the SNP and scotgov but it must be done from a position of reason and understanding and at least an attempt to wrestle with the complexity.

  153. Anton Decadent says:

    A spoiled paper is treated as that, a spoiled paper and not counted. A line drawn through all of the parties standing with None Of The Above written has to be counted as a refusal to endorse any of the scoundrels standing, as far as I am aware, it’s what I’ve done last few elections, I saw this coming. If anyone knows different re the None Of The Above please clarify.

    There aren’t enough prisons to hold us all, I was going to write we need to grow a pair but just heard a siren outside my window…

  154. Beaker says:

    I’m just waiting for my blue letter informing me that engineers will be round next week to install my telescreen.

  155. Ruby says:

    Agnes has been misgendered for a long time by Unionists.

    Agnes won’t be getting my vote. I don’t know who will I’m hoping for a independent independence supporter & ISP on the list in Edin Central.

    I believe using female names for one another is something gay men do (or did) quite a lot. Anyone know why?

  156. Astonished says:

    I see Helena Kennedy QC has been invited to hand -pick a team to provide a law to stop misogyny. Don’t get too hopeful she has already said she will protect all women (and that definitely includes men) .

    I thought we had voted out all the corrupt, decided-before-we-begin labour party operatives ? Seems not on nicola’s watch.

    I don’t want helena kennedy deciding anything for Scotland.

  157. Liz says:

    Gribble says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:47 pm
    Is it actually possible to spoil your ballot for the constituency vote and still have it valid for the list?

    Yes – you get two ballots. So spoiling your contituency one does not invalidate your regional ballot.

  158. Big Jock says:

    The movement can survive this assault, but we must remove Sturgeon before it’s too late. We need to force her out , as she is closing ranks now.

    It’s the last act of a dictator.

  159. Anyway, the fuck with it. Here’s one from Jayne County (look her up) for both sides of the equation, left and right and wrong. Is that three sides? Fuck it! Transphobia? Who gives a shit? Enjoy! 🙂

  160. kapelmeister says:

    O/T The Holyrood website still isn’t showing that the Fabiani committee will be meeting on Wednesday. The business bulletin lists 4 other committees meeting that day, but no mention of the one we’re all interested in. Is Alex Salmond’s appearance definite?

  161. Ottomanboi says:

    National Socialist ‘science’ acquired its race theories from these two.
    Concepts of ‘improving the stock’ by selective breeding ie eliminating those perceived as physically weak is the basis of eugenics. Something the Swedes were into.
    Eugenicists are eager promoters of the theories underpinning mass vaccination programs. And, as in Indira Gandhi’s régime advocated mass sterilization.
    From eugenics is but a small step to the equally false science surrounding gender theory.
    Except for the media and the gullible, ‘the science’ generally means what those promoting a viewpoint say it means.
    Covid-19 ‘science’ is a classic of the type.

  162. Lorna Campbell says:

    The trans lobby would cease to exist without the funding it receives from government sources and from big names in corporate America. It needs to justify its existence, and I have always felt that there was more to its agenda than even the latest nonsense. Something, I think is rotten in the state of Scotland. Why would corporate America back this stuff?

    Opening up the trans umbrella to every fetishist, autogynephile, cross-dresser, drag queen, transvestite, et al, has destroyed any legitimacy it ever had. What we are actually witnessing is the opening up of every seam of private fetish to try and pull it into the mainstream.

    Stonewall Diversity Champions is rife in all our Scottish schools, and the things they are telling young children is counter to those children’s physical and mental well-being because it is not age appropriate, and girls, in particular, are being told that this or that male sexual preference is fine, even when it could result in injury or severe health risks for them. Eleven-year-old girls are being told that it’s fine to have anal sex with their boyfriends. Anal sex in women and girls can cause all sorts of gynaecological problems through cross-infection, and can lead to cancers, because of the proximity in females of the urethra to the anus. When parents protested that their children were being given access to this stuff, it was taken out of sex education and put into well-being classes instead. Teachers are terrified to speak out.

    The SNPG makes great play of all this being to bring human and civil rights to genuine trans people – and many of them are utterly opposed to this stuff – when they have their human and civil rights already. What it actually is, is an attempt to extend their rights so that they encompass everyone else’s, too. Nicola Sturgeon and her coterie have completely lost the plot.

    Where are the facts and figures that are spouted about trans people? Where is the empirical evidence? How many trans people were recorded as having been attacked this past year? In relation to natal women/girls? Where is the evidence that ordinary people, Joe and Jean Bloggs, are deliberately seeking out trans people to abuse them? Yes, some people might look askance, but they tend to look away and not make any kind of scene at all. Most people are law-abiding and moderate in their behaviour, and would not hurt others just for the sake of it.

    If the trans lobby would just stop its shrieking and bleating victimization, most people would neither notice nor care. It is a pantomime, but it is a pantomime with a purpose – so that all and any instances of even looking askance at fetishists, autogynephiles, cross-dressers, drag queens, transvestites in our spaces will be stamped on hard.

    Do these idiots even understand that a backlash is likely when people are having to change their language to suit them? They are beyond stupid. After this latest rubbish, which is actually draconian when you cannot even speak the truth, the SNPG has gone too far. I think that is what they want, so that they do not have to bring in independence. They are paving the way for using our votes to push through this nonsense without having to give us independence. How people like Mike Russell, John Swinney, and others in the Cabinet can allow this to go on unquestioned, is beyond my understanding.

    In the name of sanity, will no MSP and/or MP call this ordure out for what it is and lead us out of this hellhole that has been created by these mad people?

  163. William McCarron says:

    I cancelled my SNP membership last week and I don’t think I can be arsed voting at all. The only thing we can hope for a nuclear explosion at Faslane and be done with Scotland. We had a good run, but we’re fucked as a nation if these arseholes get their way.

  164. Neil Wilkinson says:

    Breeks says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:15 pm
    Thing is, I can’t see any of this deluded Trans fundamentalism actually doing anything to further the interests of Trans people. In fact, the angry backlash against this grotesque madness and abuse of democracy might even drive transactivism underground in fear of a good kicking in some rougher quarters.


    They’d gain more acceptance if they better behaved like grown ups rather than spoilt bullying schoolchildren

  165. David Ferguson says:

    Mac says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:16 pm

    Ehhh my latin is not great but should that not be ‘Trannysaurus Regina’ Dave, you mis-gendering cad you…

    There should be likes on this site just for that comment!

  166. Bob Mack says:


    I heard a rumour that somebody may be trying to get an injunction against Alex’s testimony.Cannot verify for certain. Maybe that is cause of delay. Again cannot speak with certainty just now.

  167. Fishy Wullie says:

    I never thought it would come to this but I’m seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper on the constituency but am I right in thinking that by not voting SNP 1 either by voting for another party or spoiling your paper makes it even more difficult for indy partys to win seats on the list ?

  168. Astonished says:

    Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde : I get where you’re coming from (XYY is Klinefelters, XXX triple x syndrome other combinations are available. Mosaics are also present). This still doesn’t allow a normal man (XY) to identify and thus ” become” a woman.

    Folk with genetic conditions should, and do, receive a great deal of medical help. I have never read or heard of a single case where the person affected has not chosen to live as a man or a woman.

    It boils down to this if you have a penis you should never be allowed access to women’s shelters, women’s toilets etc. It really isn’t much to ask.

    Science denying never helped anyone.

  169. BobS says:

    So “referring to a trans woman as a biological man” is wrong. But stating “trans woman” is effectively the same as “biological man” otherwise there is no need for the “trans” prefix. So either the definition in inherently unrepeatable (and we can never use the term “trans woman” again), or these terms can safely be used interchangeably.

  170. Menstruator says:

    @monsieur le roi 2.34

    Your long post refers in the main to “intersex” or “differences of sexual development” conditions.

    Totally different from the trans issue and the intersex community has repeatedly requested not to be dragged into the discussion.

  171. David Ferguson says:

    WT says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:30 pm

    Whenever you vote for a party you have to swallow a lot of crap…

    How old are you WT? Because the thing is this. I’m old, and I voted for the SNP for years, and for all those years I never ever once had to swallow a lot of crap.

    Now I’m told I have to swallow a lot of crap. Well, the answer’s no.

  172. sog says:

    I am just a nasty suspicious sort of person. So I would suggest to anyone either not voting or spoiling their ballot paper should draw a heavy vertical line through all of the boxes.

    Obviously there is no real prospect of anyone sneaking a cross into an empty box.

  173. Terry says:

    “ Voting Tory is a totally unconscionable evil under any circumstances”

    FFS Man – hold yer nose and vote Tory 1, ISP 2.
    It’s the only way to prevent becoming a criminal, or worse.
    Then vote the twats out at the next election.

    Yes, yes I know. Thatcher, Boris evil etc, etc
    But in times of war, your enemy’s enemy is your friend.
    And make no mistake, we are at war with the Pantsuit Pathocrats

  174. Garavelli Princip says:

    “For example referring to a trans ‘woman’ as a man”

    If this is criminalised – as seems increasingly likely it will create real problems for doctors providing male centred healthcare. For example trans ‘woman’ can and do get prostate cancer at the same rate (around 7%) as the rest of the male population.

    Patients receiving diagnostic proceeds and treatments such as prostate biopsy and prostatectomies are treated quite properly in male urology wards. Will they jail staff who treat them and place them in the correct clinical setting?

    Similarly, since biology is immutable, these ‘women’ get the full spectrum of diseases to which males are more prone – for example cardiovascular disease.

    And as feminists tell us, male biases in medicine have resulted in inappropriate diagnoses and treatments for women – and biases in medical research.

    Thankfully, these are now being addressed and much more care is being taken – and increasingly will be taken – to ensure that women receive treatment better suited to their biological status. For example – they will receive different doses and drug regimens from men.

    There have already been cases – particularly in the states – of trans ‘women’ receiving the wrong treatments because they were treated as women rather than the biological men that the undoubtedly are.

    The shower of nutters currently running the SNP are driving us into major problems.

  175. Shiregirl says:

    I’m watching the debate.

    Totally distracted by Dr Tickell and how he would suit a man bun.

    Is that blockable, rev?

  176. Bob Mack says:


    Hearing Rape Crisis Scotland DEMANDING emergency vote by MSPs to exclude Salmond testimony.

  177. kapelmeister says:

    Bob Mack @2:58

    I thought something was up. Thanks Bob.

  178. Anyone else remember the days when we got one 40-minute period (can I use that word?) of Social & Health a week at school?

    The poor wee bstrds must be at it from Monday morning to Thursday dinner time nowadays trying to take in all this fkin madness.

  179. Astonished says:

    Fishy wullie – yup. If the SNP lose a constituency seat then they have a better chance of obtaining a list seat.

    So if your MSP is just cowardly and not speaking against the genderwoowoo you may want to vote for him to try to reduce the chance of a SNP lister winning a seat.

    If you live in Pollok and detest the genderwoowoo. Then you can vote for Labour (I believe it is Johann Lamont’s constituency – which is nicely ironic). This will remove Humza Yusuf completely as, I believe, he’s not standing on the list.

    Dilemmas all round – some of us are waiting to see the lists. And after the court cases, we can decide.

  180. Baxter says:

    Haven’t had time to read all the posts but the first thing that jumps out for me from the main article is the “tweak” which has me wondering if it was done to try and flush out who was leaking information to Wings.

  181. Betsy says:

    Johann Lamont isn’t standing this year as she’s retiring. I’ve not seen who Labour are putting forward net. I strongly suspect I’ll be spoiling my paper.

  182. Big Jock says:

    I think if Sturgeon is gone I will vote SNP.

    If she remains , then I won’t bother voting. I am not going to endorse her by giving her a mandate to fanny about for the next 5 years. She has had enough taxpayers hard earned cash for doing feck all.

    A robot could read out the daily Covid briefings, in fact one of them does John Swinney.

  183. LaingB French says:

    ref: Jim Sillars, The party’s constitution underwent changes, changes that shifted power more and more into the hands of the leadership, and relegated the members to the role of a happy-clappy chorus to whatever the leaders had to say.

    A party with 100,000 members is bound to have an abundance of talent, people with knowledge and experience, yet for years it has been a policymaking desert. A remarkable achievement by a leadership who obviously believes that only they can produce policy.

    If it cannot be reformed, and that is a monumental task, then it has to be replaced. SAYS IT ALL REALLY?

  184. FiferJP says:

    “Trans people may describe themselves using a variety of terms, **and do not need to have undergone any medical or social transition to be described as trans**.”

    Seems like Self ID has also been confirmed.

  185. Al-Stuart says:

    Dear Calum Baird,


    As a supporter of Scottish Independence, I used to buy your newspaper every day. Especially under the editorship of Richard Walker.

    Since Nicola Sturgeon’s coming out as a person of interest to the authorities in the Illegal effort to frame Alex Salmond for criminal behavior and for which he has been found NOT GUILTY by a majority femal jury and presided over by a female sheriff of impeccable credentials, your stewardship of The National has led me, and I suspect thousands of others who bought your 12,000 print publication and 4,500 digital version to cease purchasing your newspaper.

    Sadly, under YOUR stewardship The National has become a vassal of the Sturgeonite McWoke lobby.

    Today’s article in the 3,900,000 monthly page view website, Wings Over Scotland, I am horrified to contrast the latest Wokeist infraction against your utter unquestioning submission to the current corrupt McWoke leadership at the SNP. Callum, you seem happy to stand by idly and allow the classification of large swathes of Scotland’s citizens as “untermensch”.

    By that term, it is evident that I will soon be a subhuman in my country of birth: Scotland

    This is because when I utilise the scientifically accurate phrase for a woman as “an adult female”, or when I discuss Y chromosomes in their gender accurate terms I will be committing a crime under the ORWELLIAN TRANS-SNP newthink WokeLaws and where, may I ask, is The National?

    Callum, I believe it takes a brave man/woman to stand up to Oberst Sturgeon and Hauptmann Yousaf. By your words, you are found lacking in that responsibility as an editor. I believe you are a coward.

    Nowhere have I seen The National give sufficient coverage on this horrendous breach of human rights.

    Fortunately, I have faith in the courage of Joanna Cherry QC to challenge such a breach of my human rights to believe in science and biology over the pseudo student politics of the modern day Dr Nicola Mengele. That ilks redefinition by corruption and mendacious twisting of language to criminalise great swathes of society for having different belief systems is a stain on Scotland that is long overdue for disinfecting.

    I have a 1% hope you as editor and <The National WILL place this problem of the Trans Lobby taking over the SNP on your front page. I shall not be holding my breath that you can locate your testicles00 anytime soon.

    Callum, all that really matters to you is getting your monthly salary. Well bad news pal. All the money I spent on chasing four different newsagents regularly to buy a rare copy of The National will now be donated to Stuart Campbell and Wings Over Scotland.

    Unlike the sad state of The National, Wings Over Scotland links to all of it’s sources, for example the circulation figures of this website…

    Callum, do you see the trajectory of WoS readership figures? Serious question: how does that compare to your trajectory?

    It distresses me more than you will ever know to boycott a newspaper that I used to hold so very precious.

    But you’ve lost it.

    On 1st November 1975 my parents took me to the Custom House Quay for a rally to help save The Scottish Daily News. I saw Margo MacDonald for the first time there and became interested in the SNP at that point.

    7 days later that newspaper was dead.

    I shall be sad when The National ceases publication. But unlike the genuinely brave people that worked hard to keep the Scottish Daily News and 500 newspaper jobs alive, I will know that your newspaper died because you lacked the balls to stand up to what you know is very wrong.

    Now for Stuart Campbell, where is your donation page again, I have some subs to send you that used to buy The National.



    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    22 February, 2021 at 12:27 pm
    “Sad to see the deluded people who support SNP authoritarianism, label you as a “rightwing extremist””

  186. mike cassidy says:

    Hate to say it

    But you all haven’t grasped the problem yet

    How many genders will we not be allowed to misgender?


    Here’s 112 for a start

    Stake your gender claim now

    At least that way we can all have some ‘fun’ with the idea of what constitutes a hate crime

  187. Hatuey says:

    Monsieur whatever “ There are a considerable number of variants…”

    And what’s the statistical incidence of those variants?

    From memory, I think it’s about 0.02%.

    Could be wrong.

  188. Cuilean says:

    If I am raped by a woman with a penis, is that still a crime, or does that make me a lesbian?
    Women’s rights are being destroyed.

  189. Bob Mack says:

    Check out twitter. They have got women who work in civil service to send tweets to Corporate Body asking for Alex,s evidence be removed.

    Another desperate move Connor Matchett timeline.

  190. John Jones says:

    This is easily fixed,
    Just do the same as the French people did when they tried to bring in the smoking ban, everyone in pubs lit up even non smokers, how do the police handle something like that?
    A majority of yessers go out and walk past police stations shouting a woman with a dick is still a man.
    The systems grind to a halt as the justice system can’t cope with the numbers involved.

  191. Kevin Anderson says:

    Given this is their flagship policy I’m sure they’ll be shouting it from the rooftops with pride in the upcoming tv debates etc to the uninformed masses ..hahaha

  192. Effijy says:

    Mike Cassidy

    With a choice of 112 Genders and with the SNP right to change it every day,
    a criminal act by a swap hopper could delay their imprisonment by years.

    Which prison do you send the to?

    Make, Female, a day in each?

    SNP are bringing a whole new meaning to making a Fanny of something.

  193. Shauny Boy says:

    We are through the looking glass now folks, or do I have to say folxs? Fxlks? Fuck knows…

  194. Grouser says:

    If the SNP still has anyone who can read I wish they would read this simple scientific description of what sex you are if you have XXchromosomes and what sex you are if you have XY chromosomes. It also discusses “rare” differences from the norm.

    It is lunacy to use legislation in the way we are being threatened with to deal with rare conditions.

    I will write the Wikepedia definition on my constituency ballot paper instead of voting – XX = woman and XY = man If the ballot is truly secret maybe the thought police will not come for me. I won’t vote for the SNP on the List as the SNP is manipulating the List to placate the ignorant spoiled children who are running the nursery these days, quite apart from it being a waste of a vote to do so anyway.

    This is a sad day for people who have supported SNP all their lives with their work, their money, their time and their votes.

  195. Graham says:

    Like tack boots, I too hesitate to post, because I learned long ago the futility of trying to change people’s opinions on comment threads. Something in me makes me post, I think it’s the feeling that someone has to say something, however futile, it’s important that it gets said.

    I’ve been at least alerted and at most swayed by the anti trans articles. They have a point. Unfortunately they are anti trans articles, as opposed to pro people articles, or pro constructive inclusive society articles. They aren’t written with balance, and while skirting around the edges of the thin ice, it’s bloody obvious that the inferences and innuendos spawn from a bigoted and hateful place.

    I am against the definition and the hate crime bill. I am also 100% behind the police Scotland advert – it’s NOT ok to attack and bully trans people in bars! Those who think that’s fair game hide behind petty technical arguments about policy and take fringe reactionary blogs as a dog whistle. All that shit about “what’s right is right” – why can’t this blog come out and say that trans people are legitimate human beings who have rights and who should not be subjected to violent crime? I have never once been left with any other impression than a fundamentally bigoted author who himself might kick a guy in a dress, but only if he was already down and surrounded.

    For example why write about describing a trans woman as a biological male, without consideration of the context of that. Technically he’s ‘just stating an academic fact’ with no prejudice nor harm intended…. but in what context does that ever really happen? Isn’t he actually shouting at a patron of a bar minding his/her/their own business? Why not? He hasn’t ruled anything out, hasn’t condemned using language as an emotional weapon to bully someone. Doesn’t support a rational reasonable point of view, just takes the most extreme reading every time. He’s developed his own shorthand for slurs against stereotypes of others and is fighting for his right to use them in hate speech.

    It is entirely possible, and in my view “right”, to perceive several sides of this issue. The start is to recognize what horrors some people have endured, and agree what kind of values we share. The next is how to improve the situation without detriment to our shared values. If the debate were led from that origin by people capable of understanding the views of others we wouldn’t have such a ridiculous government policy nor the cannon fodder for reactionary anti trans blogs to make legitimate complaints laced with blatant bigotry. He’s smart enough to make splendid literary use of them, and if he had the aforementioned values he’d use them to steer the debate towards a reasonable government policy. Instead it’s accurate criticism of incompetent government policy laced with polarizing content.

  196. Effijy says:

    Comedian Bruce Morton has summed up the whole enquiry situation for us as he has overheard it.

    She said that he said something he shouldn’t have said
    so she said she wouldn’t repeat what he said as he said he would say something
    if he heard someone saying what he said.

    She probably should have said something but she knows what he would have said
    and then he would have said he never said it.

    She said he said that When all is said and done the less said the better.

    Says it all really!

    Said isn’t it?

  197. Bob Mack says:


    If you can steer this government towards anything then good luck to you. You are starting from a bad premise though that they will actually listen

  198. Sylvia says:

    WhoRattledYourCage at 1:37 pm “following America again”

    The National/Herald and Evening Times are all AMERICAN owned. The parent company was Gannett (McLean, Virginia, USA) until late 2019, then Gannett merged with New Media Investment Group. I know they publish in other countries but unsure of how many.

    Maybe explains where all the American university postmodernistic bollocks is coming from.

  199. Cenchos says:

    And as no-one in the NEC seems to understand the difference between sex and gender,

  200. Liz says:

    @monsieur etc you think you are educating the uneducated?

    Most of us know their are variants, XXY XO, chimera, lack of SRY gene, androgen insensitivity etc.
    We are not ignorant, however 99.9% of the population are XY or XX.
    Are you suggestion we change millenia of evolution re sex identification?

    It’s not how it works.

    PS paragraph breaks

  201. dpg says:

    hello menstruator
    :Your long post refers in the main to “intersex” or “differences of sexual development” conditions.

    I think if you had said that 20 years ago I would probably have along along with you but the last 20 years have changed a lot of the understanding. For a start the position of science was unassailable byt that has been eroded by Foucault, Thomas kuhn, Derrida and Butler.
    while I already know that intersex people wish to distance themselves from the TRANS controversy I think that is impossible as the issues are a. so inextricably linked b. not understood, as we really don’t know what chromosomal,developmental or genetic factors contribute to the ‘organism’=the person and how that person presents let alone the way the idea of identity develops in an individual who has conflicting messages. IOW the psychologicaldevelopmental processes are barely touched upon in the debate.
    Unfortunately a comprehensive understanding is probably decades in the future
    The essential point however is that Stuart’s characterisation of the biology as something ‘fixed’ is fundamentally wrong.There is not a spectrum of gender as described by Nicola |Sturgeon but an extremely complex matrix of possibilities all centred around how we understand sex,sexuality ‘gender’ with all the different aspects these words represent whether behavioural,psychological, developmental, genetic with each aspect influenced by the others at numerous macro and nano levels- endocrinological, molecular,anatomical, physiological etc etc etc. I think the error is in the attempt to simplify the problem or in the other case to weaponise the complexity to favour the Trans activust position . I would bet a pound to a pinch of shit that the common or garden trans activist will not have much theoretical understandingf just as Stuart Campbell weaponises ‘simplicity’*the blindingly obvious) to bolster his position.

  202. zebedee says:

    Graham wrote:
    I am against the definition and the hate crime bill. I am also 100% behind the police Scotland advert – it’s NOT ok to attack and bully trans people in bars!

    Is it okay to bully or attack trans people outside bars? Why are bars being singled out?

  203. James Carroll says:

    Im getting fed up with this shit now. We all want to live in a society where people can be whatever they want and we all embrace that as the absolute right way to go. All this seriously unnecessary arguing and SNP time spent on this subject is ridiculous when we should be 110% focused on beating this virus and then marching on to secession.

  204. Robert graham says:

    All a load of tripe

    All most people want is the lights kept on , the water running and their bins emptied all the other stuff away and play with your own money in your own time and don’t annoy me it’s pretty simple

    Now can we get back to normal Please

  205. Mike Hovit says:

    They should remember english/danish king Cnut/Canute. The one who ordered the tides to cease to prove to his slavish courtiers that he was not alll powerful.

    Even the wonderful power of scottish law can not make things what they are not.

  206. Jesus fuck, look at all this nonsense babbling – and I mean no disrespect by that. We have been put in a position of (no) debate by insane, mad, (corporate?) agenda-waving people. Well let me say, just for the fucking record, I couldn’t give a shit about trans people. Just like I couldn’t give a shit about pretty much any kind of person. Why should I? How do they take up my day and time and consciousness? For some reason, some trans people seem to want to impose themselves on the (bootspithiss) hetero consciousness 24/7 365, probably in revenge for past disregard. So what? Fucking get over it, you cunts, cocks, whatever! Practically nobody on this planet matters or gets noticed, male or female or indeterminate bisex, fuck your bullying, fuck your inadequate clinging attention need, we…are…all…fucked…together…in…this. and all you are doing is making things much worse for yourselves, cos when you stamp and piss on the hetero majority too much…they WILL fuck you up. Not a threat, just a premonition.

    Christ, what a MESS we are all in, cos of practically zerobody in the human race!

    Fuck it.

  207. Robert graham says:

    Aye and what’s this vendetta against bars I mean what have they poor buggers done

    This is totally disgusting and disgraceful

    I am writing to my MP to complain about this behaviour

  208. dpg says:

    graham at 3.30
    I think your comment was excellent.

  209. Cenchos says:

    dpg 3.44

    Naw, the problem is with BS-theory-bound people like you deliberately muddying the water.

  210. David Brackenbury says:

    This modern use of the words trans and cis comes from organic chemistry, if two atomic groups are on the same side of a molecule they are in the cis position if on the other side they are trans. It comes directly from Latin, the Roman’s called the parts of Gaul that were on there side (southern) Cis Alpins Gaul and on the other side Trans Alpine Gaul. Trans refers to the other side or opposite. Transition literally means to move to the other side or change. That’s enough nerdery


  211. Bob Mack says:

    Perhaps nature could enable little baby boys to be born without penis’s and we could call them ____girls.

    There is a major difference between what sex you are born and what you want to be. Never mind chromosomes of anythng else.

    Some manage it. Others do not and live in conflict, mainly with themselves

  212. Nemisis Benn says:

    Look at this and ask yourselves if it would be a legal message in Princess (?) Nicola’s brave new Scotland?:

  213. Mike Hovit says:

    If it were’t so serious it would be a laugh.
    Every time you speak with a Police Scotland officer, wait for them to call you he or she, declare you are trans and lodge a hate speech complaint against the officer.
    That should guarantee PS becoming so overloadaed it ceases to function.

  214. Dafydd Jones says:

    If you are not able to enquire as to the biological sex of an employee then how could you assess if the weights being lifted are appropriate to the H&SE recommendations based on whether the employee is male or female?

  215. Allium says:

    Unfortunately Cis in gender ideology means that not only are you a non-transwoman/man, but that you have an inner gender identity that conforms with your biological sex. Even if you think gender identity is bullshit akin to having a spirit animal, you’re deemed to have one anyway. In the case of women, its doubly offensive, as it also means that you’ve idenitfied into sexist oppression, rather than had it imposed on you against your will.

  216. David Brackenbury says:

    The modern use of the words trans and cis comes from organic chemistry, if two atomic groups are on the same side of a molecule they are in the cis position if on the other side they are trans. It comes directly from Latin, the Romans called the parts of Gaul that were on their side (southern) Cis Alpins Gaul and on the other side Trans Alpine Gaul. Trans refers to the other side or opposite. Transition literally means to move to the other side or change. That’s enough nerdery


  217. Liz g says:

    Graham @ 3.30
    I’m glad you got over your hesitation Graham that’s an interesting post …
    For my tuppance worth I’d like a reasonable discussion on this stuff too, and while ( because I heard the Rev questioned quite closely in court ) I can’t agree that he holds the attitude you seem to think he does…. that’s for him to address.
    What I can point out is that here BTL you can pretty much say what you believe and why you believe with almost complete freedom.
    And while there are those who believe idiotic things and say idiotic things …. ironically this is probably one of the last places in Scottish politics where ye can say what you really think , discuss any disagreement and hopefully find honest people who will give honest answers.
    That’s sadly a rare thing Graham…..but if you can scroll past the clowns there are plenty here who will engage in good will.
    For instance….. I find my resentment of some of the Trans argument stem from my religious upbringing, as an Aitheist I rail against being made to believe and respect ridiculous things.
    Therefore when ( and you’d surely agree ) those advocating Trans rights demanded a ” belief ” my go to response is no,no chance , no way no how.
    My considered response is “what can be asserted with out evidence can be dismissed without evidence ” …
    And I’ve not yet read or heard anything convincing me that I need to change that position to date.
    A position I took after much consideration.
    I also think I cleave to this site and view it differently from you because it calls for evidence that can be tested too .

    But there’s also always been the opportunity for anyone to state their position and defend it.
    Wouldn’t it be quite a twist if the sensible discussion you call for around this happened here of all places.
    So keep posting Graham… if this is something you believe in don’t let anyone put you off and I’d bet my kids the Rev will give you as much freedom as you want to say the things you think persuades people of you take on it ,if you don’t get personal with the others ….. 🙂

  218. Carol Neill says:

    I . Just .despair
    I hate the Scotland my little granddaughter (she’s female , born with a vagina , not assigned it ) will grow up in

  219. John Jones says:

    Thanks to the gold advert on RT I’ve found a reason to be trans

    Sometimes it’s nice
    To have something real
    That you can hold in your hand
    And when the time comes
    pass on to your loved ones!

  220. McDuff says:

    The public at large are completely unaware of what is happening here (apart from Wings), as the rest of the media are doing the three monkey’s.
    If this madness was highlighted by the MSM I am sure there would be a public backlash with all parties reigning in their support for this insane bill.

  221. Ruby says:

    Graham says:

    I am also 100% behind the police Scotland advert – it’s NOT ok to attack and bully trans people in bars!it’s NOT ok to attack and bully trans people in bars!

    What the police Scotland adverts says is

    Dear transphobes

    Do you think it’s right to push transgender people around in clubs?

    Clubs are totally different to bars. In clubs you dance with other people. You dance close, you kiss & for the most part are looking for a partner (even if just for one night)

    Doesn’t a lot of the violence against transwomen occur when heterosexual men discover the ‘woman’ they are dancing with/kissing/going to bed with has a penis?

    It would probably be better if instead of trying to hide the fact that you are transexual if that fact were obvious.

    Lets stop saying transwomen are women and lets say transwomen are transwomen and let them be proud to be transwomen and let them fight for their own rights.

    What exactly is so wrong with calling someone a transwoman?

  222. Carol Neill says:

    Completely agree

  223. Robert graham says:

    I never went to Uni and just about finished secondary school, I finished school on a Friday sometime in 1968 can’t remember the month and started a apprenticeship on the Monday two days after I finished school .
    I often wondered what it might have been like to mix with all these clever fkrs and speak about all these airy fairy topics and ideas , nope I had to work.

    Now I come across these educated brainless results of the higher education system , a system that churns out clones with all common sense removed , and these people are in positions that can alter people’s life’s , no wonder the whole set up is fkd the wrong people are in the wrong places.

    And they gravitate towards Political parties who give them a platform to enhance their lives and they live off the plebs who actually make stuff work , aye I missed the golden ticket I was too busy.

    Can I start again ? .

  224. Wee Chid says:

    Graham, it’s not ok to attack anyone in a bar and there are laws for dealing with that. there is no need to create new laws that will endanger women to provide extra protection for a tiny portion of the population.

  225. Carol Neill says:

    Sorry Mcduff , autocorrect

  226. Shug says:

    How do you define a hamaphrodite who has male and female genetalia

  227. Cenchos says:

    Of course it’s wrong to mistreat trans people.

    You don’t need to re-write science to tell us that.

  228. Stuart MacKay says:

    Graham @3.30pm

    I think you’d find many here that would agree with you. A lot of the animosity and anger in this “debate” is a direct reaction to the “this is how it’s going to be so shut the fuck up” used by people, who use the problems face by genuine trans folk, to push their own agendas – with extreme antipathy against radical feminists in particular. With extreme elements on one side advocating punishment rapes either for lesbians who resist the advances of transwomen or for uppity women who object to the agenda then it’s no wonder that things get a little heated.

    If the social justice warriors could be cleared out then perhaps we might get to here from the people this issue actually affects. Maybe then some actual dialog might be possible. Given the current protections in law it would be interesting to see what the shortcomings are and why change is needed (yes, I know I’m being a bit antagonistic by saying this).

  229. Scott says:


    Americanisms have been getting drip-fed to us for years.

    In the grocery stores there’s been a steady rise in American-style this and American-style that…..none of which is remotely delicious despite the packaging.
    The actual American stuff is no better, but that’s confectionary at the moment. Yank chocolate is bowfin.

    Tory-donor stores like Iceland & B&M would need smaller stores if they just binned it all, but money talks.

    Also: the naming of storms, prom nights in schools, meaningless slogans, *ucking pumpkins & trick or fu*king treat, the unfettered influence of faceache & twatter…

    British/Canadian film “The 51st State” was known as “Formula 51” over the pond. The drug in that film was POS51….Power of Suggestion. (No drug could make Boaby Carlyle’s Scouse accent believable)

    UK has been bought & sold, they just haven’t fully moved in yet.

  230. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Shug,

    hermaphrodite |h???mafr?d??t|
    a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.

    • Botany a plant having stamens and pistils in the same flower.

    • archaic a person or thing combining opposite qualities or characteristics.

    of or denoting a person, animal, or plant having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics. hermaphrodite creatures in classical sculpture.

  231. TNS2019 says:

    It has just clicked.
    Swinney and Sturgeon are self-identifying as honest decent people and we must respect them for that. By law.
    No more calling Swinney a “complete ‘banker’ for his performance in education, or fish-face an unscrupulous charlatan.
    I am self-identifying as Muhammed Ali although I am not black, or American and not a boxer, but I have this ‘feeling’ that I am him.
    It has opened-up a whole new world for me. My c.v. is now looking superb! “Astronaut. Philanthropist. Saint”

  232. Ruby says:

    TNS2019 says:

    I am self-identifying as Muhammed Al

    To be fair I believe
    fantasies about being able to “Float like a butterfly & sting like a bee” are different to what people feel when they have gender dysphoria. It must be a terrible predicament to be in. It must be terrible to have to take heavy duty drugs & in some cases undergo some very serious surgical procedures just to feel comfortable. Even then there is no guarantee that the drugs & surgery will work.

  233. Commenter says:

    Fuck this pos Government.

    Addendum. The “blue” letter is a psyops attempt from the Scot gov to align vaccination with independence.

    Well it would be if they had ordered enough blue envelopes. Wankers, complete wankers. More £££££ and exposure to danger (time) pissed away.

    The joy of 2021: there’s no way of knowing whether this is a brain-melted pro-independence person or just a rabid britnat.

  234. TNS2019 says:

    Ruby says:
    22 February, 2021 at 5:12 pm


    Seen a kid take their own life because of this. Genuine gender issues. Seen the impact on family and professionals.
    It is real. But it should not be politicised.

  235. Kit Bee says:

    Is it too late to stand for election in the constituency to Holyrood as anti- SNP Independence candidate?. I mean it’s too late for a new party but we could crowdfund some candidates.

  236. Kevin McIntosh says:

    Rev, I don’t comment much, so this one should go into moderation and thus giving you the opportunity to look at the link to this blog, it turned up on on my social media timeline this morning.

    I think some of it is relevant to the topic being discussed here. If you don’t think so please delete my comment.

  237. robbo says:

    Terry says:
    22 February, 2021 at 2:55 pm
    “ Voting Tory is a totally unconscionable evil under any circumstances”

    FFS Man – hold yer nose and vote Tory 1, ISP 2.
    It’s the only way to prevent becoming a criminal, or worse.
    Then vote the twats out at the next election.

    Yes, yes I know. Thatcher, Boris evil etc, etc
    But in times of war, your enemy’s enemy is your friend.
    And make no mistake, we are at war with the Pantsuit Pathocrats


    Naw Terry Naw. The message is to the SNP who have went rogue , not to prop up or boost a Tory vote. You think we came up the clyde on a big watter biscuit!?

    Tories can seek their votes. Nice try.

  238. Duncan Gray says:

    The direction the trans entriests have been allowed to take the party is definitely worrying. So, given our predicament, what are the options for the upcoming Holyrood elections?

    Spoil constituency ballot as a ‘dirty protest’? = losing SNP seats will be seized upon by the Unionist diaspora as ‘Peak Yes’/’Tide has Turned on Indy’.

    Vote for a Unionist Party? = LOL!

    Vote en masse for an alternative Indy Party? = Might be effective in a single region to get 1 seat, but as it stands with no known and trusted charismatic figure to have started a party about a year ago who could’ve created enough attention to get a crowdfunder in order to raise the funds needed to get the message out beyond that of the mainstream messaging, the most likely outcome is still = losing SNP seats = ‘Peak Yes’.

    Even in the highly unlikely scenario that an alternative Indy Party makes significant gains, we’d still be knocking on the door of a belligerent Boris hoping for blood from stone and the narrative would still be SNP losses = ‘Peak Yes’.

    It all stinks at the moment, I know, even when I hold my nose I can still taste it at the back of my mouth. But here’s an idea. If you’re an SNP member, stay in, if you’re not then join, and fight to reclaim the beating heart of our movement and party. I’d rather fix the vehicle we’re in than scurry around looking for spare parts to cobble together a new one from scratch, especially this close to May.

    Significant in-roads have been made to rebalance the NEC, despite the challenges against that, we did that by working together, and we can do so much more by continuing to work together. Whilst it might seem counter-intuitive to put that ‘X’ in the box of a party which seems to have lost its way, and you might say there’s no guarantee we’d change anything from within, I can absolutely guarantee that we’ll have he haw chance of making change from the outside. SNP performance in May’s Holyrood election is the only narrative that the media will run with. Get the message sent to WM, we’re still here, and we want independence more than ever before!

    The SNP is not Nicola’s, Alex’s or any other single person’s party, its ours and its time we harden up, stand up and take it back! I’m done asking!

  239. Robert Louis says:

    sex is not ‘assigned‘ at birth, it is RECORDED, since it is a biological FACT.

    Just like with dogs and cats. Let’s somplify; a willie and nuts-MALE, vag -Female.

    These are basic scientific FACTS.

    BUT the real problem is this, the gender cultists would then shout ‘bigot’ or transphobe’, when I am nothing of the kind. If a man wishes to dress as a lady, change his name, and be addressed as such, I have no problem doing so. Live and let live. But, to the cultists, that is not good enough, they want it made LAW, that such a person is not dressing as a woman, but actually IS a woman, and anybody saying otherwise goes to jail.

    It is madness. I have no idea why the SNP, or any other political party would go down this road, since it is ‘a can of worms’‘ ‘nest of vipers’.

    To my dying day, as a gay man, I will NEVER buy into this gender nonsense, not for one freaking second. And, honestly, I never for one second imagined I would ever need to even address such utter, utter, ridiculous nonsense.

  240. Isabel Melville says:

    This is a fascinating article explaining how the whole Trans debate became mainstream in so many countries. Or rather, didn’t become part of any debate until too late, after the laws were passed.

  241. Morag says:

    We have a number of people considering spoiling their constituency ballots. I wonder if we can agree a common form of wording to write on these ballots? It won’t be wasted as the SNP election agents will see them, and if there was some consistency to the wording that might drive home the point.

    Although maybe everyone acting independently will have the desired effect so long as the intent is clear enough.

  242. Baxter1967 says:

    This site should broaden out into something more like a newspaper, movement or political party. Mr Campbell has no fear and is the right person to lead it and snuff out political corruption in Scotland. The spirit of a Scottish version of a Sunday Times Insight team/ Panorama. Financial contributions would flood in and serious people rooted in the values of the Scottish people would contribute.
    We are sleep walking into a dystopian nightmare. As Mao said: “give me the language and I’ll control the people”. A timid and brain dead opposition. The SNP and quango industry dominated by careerists on the gravy train and the comic The National their Pravda. An open door policy attracting those ill suited to serious grown up politics to become candidates and demeaning the political reputation of the Scottish parliament. It’s a disaster completely alien to the vision of a democratic and Independent Scotland.

  243. Lorna Campbell says:

    Monsieur Le Roy: yes, you are right that there are chromosomal variations on the sex spectrum of male/female, but these are very rare and most people with these variations do not call themselves trans, but tend to opt for one sex or the other.

    In any case, what does that have to do with biological men colonising women’s spaces? That is the issue. No one grudges whatever help can be given to anyone, but we cannot condone the trampling of the rights of others. That, in itself, then becomes a human rights issue, and I fear that women, en masse, are going to have to take their case to the UN to establish their rights. When any hitherto discriminated again group has gained its rights ad spaces, it has done so by a form of osmosis – by others making room and that group occupying the room – and it has never been the case before, in the history of human rights that one group actually take over the rights of another and oust them – except in colonization or displacement – both of which are aggressive acts, the first passive-aggressive, the second simply aggressive.

  244. Baxter1967 says:

    Agree with Morag. This seems a great strategy. Simple.

  245. twathater says:

    @ MlRG 2.34pm A well written and illuminating science lesson BUT nature has many ways to confuse and distort science without the help of human interference (weed killers and other chemicals), as others have said no one is denying trans people the right to live with dignity and safety or equal rights which they already have, but what people are inflamed at is their DEMAND that their minority rights take precedence over the majorities rights, THAT is unacceptable, as life teaches us we are NOT all equal, so with the attempted enforcement of this in law only illustrates that these nature damaged individuals don’t want equality they want superiority

  246. dpg says:

    liz at3.44
    I am not trying to ‘educate’ but trying to argue that the situation is complex and that in terms of going forward we have to understand some of this. simply saying 99.9% are either xx or xy does not help.
    the fact is that this issue is largely about that ‘small number’ Actually, the stat I have been able to find is 1 in 4500.= about 100 people in a population of about that of Glasgow so for Scotland about 1000 people. These 1000 are part of a much larger community of sympathisers and followers and family, so although a minority it is a highly significant minority. It is improper to simply use numbers to dismiss their position.
    Apart from the unsupportable moral or ethical attitude implied by that comment(small numbers don’t matter) the size of the larger group is quite significant.
    Furthermore the political and social context is important. The general stance of our government is ‘progressive’ rather than conservative. In other words: responsive to new scientific and social developments/movements. That includes being sensitive to organisations such as UN or even EU where emphasis is placed on eliminating prejudice, discrimination or exclusion. I guess that it is also about trying to correct many aspects of entrenched inequality,
    I have no problem at all about the general progressive outlook of the N.S government but I do protest at the the utterly improper and inept way she has chosen to take her progressive agenda forward, by trying to make an example of Alex Salmond for historic possible/alleged misjudgements.

    Her actions against AS revealed her underlying lack of good political judgement, her tendency to authoritarianism and her inability to muster energy and argument to take independence campaign forward. If she wanted to raise the issue or attack ‘toxic masculinity’ it was up to her to organise her resources constructively to create consent for a deeper attitudinal change, not enter into a spiteful vendetta against an individual.Her rejection of mediation speaks volumes. In many ways AS is a side issue- he has become a cause celebre because of her actions and those of others in their clumsy attempt to punish him without a decent, proper process of policy development. NS and others should be judged entirely on her political record. The progressive agenda is not contested meaningfully in Scotland. It is her vindictive way of focussing on AS that is wrong. The irony is that the actions of the complainants has actually set the cause of women’s equality back by years. It’s that ineptitude that needs to be judged.

  247. Random Biologist says:

    Sex is not a spectrum. Sex is binary. All mammals use XY genetic sex determination. No mammals can change sex. Every single human that has ever lived is either male or female.

    Opinion pieces in popular science magazines by pharmaceutical industry shills do not change these facts.

    This “sex spectrum” nonsense is straight out of the creationist playbook. They just keep repeating sciency sounding BS until people start to wonder if it is true.

  248. Random Biologist says:

    Every intersex person is male or female. Organizations that represent intersex people keep asking TRAs to stop othering them by making them out to be something unnatural. Intersex conditions have nothing to do with trans.

  249. JGedd says:

    @ Morag

    I wonder if we can agree a common form of wording to write on these ballots?

    That had occurred to me too. It would have more impact if they were confronted with many people writing in the same on their ballot papers. At least to themselves, SNP agents at the count would be aware and it could not be dismissed as individual dissenters.

  250. Carl R says:

    Does anyone remember this from a while back?

    Mokgadi Caster Semenya OIB (born 7 January 1991) is a South African middle-distance runner and 2016 Olympic gold medalist.
    She won gold in the women’s 800 metres at the 2009 World Championships with a time of 1:55.45, the 2016 Summer Olympics, and the 2017 World Championships in her new personal best, 1:55.16.

    After the doping disqualification of Mariya Savinova, she also was awarded gold medals at the 2011 World Championships and the 2012 Summer Olympics, all in the 800 metres.

    Semenya is an intersex cisgender woman, assigned female at birth, with XY chromosomes and naturally elevated testosterone levels due to 5?-Reductase deficiency.
    Following her victory at the 2009 World Championships, it was announced that she had been subjected to sex testing.

    She was withdrawn from international competition until 6 July 2010 when the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) cleared her to return.

    In 2019, new IAAF rules came into force preventing women such as Semenya from participating in 400m, 800m, and 1500m events unless they take medication to lower their testosterone levels.

    So she was born a biological woman but is being persecuted for having higher testosterone levels.

    Recently I read an article where a Woman’s race in USA was won by a Man, and 2nd place was also a Man. Third place was a Woman.


  251. emmm_seee says:

    Agree with Morag – there should be an agreed common form of words to spoil ballots.
    The media eyes of the world will be on Scotland in this May election and those of us who are angry about all that’s happened since the last election should act in a concerted manner to ensure that there is a *very* newsworthy phenomenon for them to see & report on.
    We may not have a party to vote for, but we CAN act in this election as one concerted & unprecedented movement, with the aim of turning the big lights onto the SNP and putting them in a very uncomfortable & embarrassing situation. The immediate aftermath of a Scottish election with a huge and significant number of concerted spoilt ballots may well be chaos in Holyrood, but we can thole that chaos while the independence movement comes up with something better than the SNP and goes for it hell for leather at the election after.

  252. Cringe says:

    This the opposite of the strategy recommended in the Dentons manual. Does this mean Sturgeon’s real interest is in deliberately trying to lose the election rather than trans rights?

  253. Dan says:

    @ Morag at 6:00 pm

    Re. Leaving a message on ballot papers.
    Would it really make any difference to the Party that has continually ignored the many concerns raised by members over the past couple of years, plus there’s the significant number of resignations of members.
    We also know they read this site, yet still the Party strides on in a direction pushing policies that are at odds with the wonts of its members and the wider Scottish electorate.

    They have already been given numerous heads up so the Party are already well aware of what they are doing, yet with those holding the power to influence the trajectory of the Party continuing to travel down a path that is at odds with retaining their vote share, it can only be because they simply do not care and are hell bent on trying to implement their divisive shite rather than push for Indy.

  254. Lenny Hartley says:

    Had a wee argument with a pal at the gowf today, he is a Sturgeon Loyalist, I said to him so you know whats happening in the party, yup he said, and followed it up with the Tories want us to be fighting each other, he said that to everything i threw at him. SO i left it, we played our respective rounds of golf and when I got in I said to him, tell me this how many sexes are they? Two he responded, i said that answer could get you thrown out of the SNP and may well get you jailed for several years if Sturgeon is still in charge come May.
    Nonsense says he, They will never be that daft.
    There is a lot of folk still to be convinced that the NuSNP has gone batshit crazy, i know quite a few members who are still Wheesht for Indy, they are in for a rude awakening.

  255. Karen says:

    Stu, slight error, red blood cells do not have nuclei, i.e. no DNA. But otherwise, bang on!

  256. Cooper says:

    Why is this not available accesibly anywhere? Not good from the party of disability accesibility.

  257. Ruaridh says:

    I mean you haven’t even been able to vote in Scotland for decades anyway so who cares

  258. Saffron Robe says:

    Extremely well argued Stuart. To make it unlawful to call a biological man a biological man has the same parallel to the Nazis making it unlawful for Jewish people to be considered human.

    And your conclusions are correct, there is not a flaw in your logic. If there can be no excuse for ignorance, then there can be no excuse for voting SNP.

  259. Liz g says:

    dpg @ 3.44
    Nothing wrong with learning dpg …
    I agree ’tis a complex issue and on the face of it been clumsily handled in Scotland .
    I would question if that’s mainly because of Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish government approach to it … or …. is it because the seemingly preferred mechanisms of bringing the changes in quietly on the down low that saw the law changes in other countries just didn’t work here…. and that they didn’t pass muster here because Scotland was particularly switched on to politics because of the referendum and its aftermath.
    While that may at this stage be a side issue it is worth debunking as it goes to trust in the discourse.

    I’d also want to argue that this is far from progressive and is in fact regressing the population back to being unable to stray from the government narrative….. and I personally care not over which issue the government chooses in this they do not get to tell me what to think on anything.
    While that’s the generic stuff and as you can see speaks more to government and their actions ( this is a political site 🙂 )

    Also, while the aims of the international bodies are admirable and aspirational and being supported by a Holyrood we all wish to see is beyond dispute.
    They all tend to forget that they need to take the people’s along too.
    (And that’s why answering the “are they sneaking this in past us ” question needs answered ).
    To do the best we can for this particular minority’s issue needed delicate handling mainly because it is an issue that deals with sex….which I feel confident in saying even predates religion and no one gets to opt out of.
    The Scottish electorate it seems are being pushed into a position they either don’t want or haven’t been asked about…and that is not good/best practice by any standard and I sadly suspect the the Trans People will suffer the backlash when the politicians loose interest, and they will loose interest.
    What I’d say to them if I had any real voice is that they have our attention use it to their own advantage and don’t let the politicians use you!!
    There’s a whole Yes movement communication system in place and alive with Scots keen to build a new Scotland ….. engage …and engage before much more damage is done to your reputation by these politicians..

    There is still the meat of the debate itself…. and I hope we can agree from the get go the ” no debate ” was a disaster. It was as I understand it intended to state that Trans People wouldn’t allow society to pretend they don’t exist.
    But as I’m sure you’ve noticed it’s been the hook for many other inferences to be hung on… and I agree wholeheartedly with your observations of Nicolas handling of the “toxic masculinity ” debate…while also being of the opinion that most men aren’t toxic at all and the few that are need a quite different response.
    All in all I hope the Trans debate morphs into some sort of civility because it has the potential to become a study of the human condition like never before…. and that’s where I came in dpg…. educate away my friend.

  260. President Xiden says:

    Once again the Nationalist Socialists revert to type. Burning school text books will be next.

  261. JGedd says:


    You might describe your attitude as progressive but have you given any attention to the situation of women? The problem is not people with anomalous conditions but self ID. Women are asked to accept what are possibly intact males into what were private spaces. The necessity for what was previously acknowledged as a protection for women has now to be put aside at the behest of men who are to be allowed to simply identify as women.

    Now one might have thought that the situation could be addressed by self-identifying transwomen having their own private spaces which would have afforded them similar protection. However, whenever this is suggested it is met with strident antagonism. It seems to many of us a reasonable compromise so why would a particularly vociferous lobby insist on their right to enter those spaces? If it’s about feelings then this is yet another instance of women’s feelings being overridden.

    Apparently women worrying about possibly intact males being able to enter spaces previously reserved for women can be ignored. Those advocating this change should have to deal with the consequences of someone entering these private areas with ill intent and not brush it arrogantly away as ‘not very common.’ ( Anyway, according to the latest from the NEC, it will actually be judged transphobic to even mention cases which have already happened.)

    While citing the effects to people with chromosomal conditions and including their families as those who share their distress, I’m sure it must have occurred to you that sexual assault is not simply traumatic for the women or girls who suffer it but for their families too. There has been no proper debate allowed on this subject whereby we might have emerged with a fair and equitable situation for everybody but this has not been allowed. I fail to see why it is progressive to ignore the necessity to provide for the safety of women and girls.

  262. Wee Chid says:

    Random Biologist says:
    22 February, 2021 at 6:29 pm
    !Sex is not a spectrum. Sex is binary. All mammals use XY genetic sex determination. No mammals can change sex. Every single human that has ever lived is either male or female.

    Opinion pieces in popular science magazines by pharmaceutical industry shills do not change these facts.

    This “sex spectrum” nonsense is straight out of the creationist playbook. They just keep repeating sciency sounding BS until people start to wonder if it is true.'”

    Thanks – that what I thought but I don’t have a science background – it just seemed logical. I’ve seen or heard some outrageous claims by so called doctors/scientists etc and usually come away thinking – “I wonder who funded that article”.

  263. WT says:

    My post earlier was to try to get a different perspective on this. I work with elderly people. Some of them do not have the time to wait another few years. One of the women is 92 and she worries that Boris Johnston will never let us get free. I have to keep reassuring her that I believe independence is just round the corner whilst secretly being frustrated at the lack of progress. Mia, I agree that the SNP has serially failed to deliver an independence referendum and have instead obfuscated and delayed. However, we are only a couple of months away from the election – call their bluff and see if there is the will to deliver this time. Alba – you know where I am coming from on this if you too have “said frequently here that bad laws can be removed and its much better to have the SNP in power”. I worry that we could lose our chance – some of us do not have the time to wait. In addition, it seems that westminster is preparing to block or remove any future route to independence by a number of means including redrawing a new act of union. Like the comment from ‘A Person’ I agree that there are a great many reasons not to vote for the SNP but as we are only a month or so away from a chance to gain freedom and create the Scotland we want, surely this is not the time to throw away what might be our last chance? David Ferguson I am no spring chicken either and I voted for the SNP for years and for me some of it has been a lot of crap such as minimum pricing of alcohol. I know a lot of folk liked that one but I didn’t. I think the way that one was drawn up benefitted the supermarkets at the expense of the poor. It made no difference to the well-off. Royal assent: 29 June 2012 Territorial extent: Scotland Commencement: 1 May 2018 Introduced by: Nicola Sturgeon MSP. I don’t like a lot of the stuff the party is mooting just now but a lot of this is internal party stuff not policy. Lets not muck it up right at the end.

  264. WT says:

    correction Alba not Caesar! forgive my auto sorrect

  265. Wee Chid says:

    Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde

    How does that small number compare to the number of WASPI women in Scotland who are not having their hardship mitigated in any way by a government who concentrates on a minority issue? How does it compare to the numbers of people living below the poverty line and surviving thanks to foodbanks? Seems to me that, in the majority of cases, this is a very middle class problem affecting people who are used to having everything their own way, every problem solved for them and nothing but affirmation of their opinions. I’m sure their dysphoria would be far better overcome with counselling that helps them face reality instead of confirming their fantasy – but then big pharma wouldn’t then get lifelong drug users and surgeons the lucrative re-assignment gigs. As for the “pretenders”, and we know they exist, I understand that people cannot help what turns them on but we should not be legislating to enable them to carry out their fantasies in public. At what kink does one draw the line?

  266. Menstruator says:

    @dpg 3.44

    “For a start the position of science was unassailable byt that has been eroded by Foucault, Thomas kuhn, Derrida and Butler.“

    Philosophers not biologists. What relevance do they have to the question of whether a person with a penis should be locked in a women’s prison or be allowed to carry out a mammogram?

  267. Liz g says:

    Menstruator @ 8.48
    Your right in what you say Menstruator
    Of course you are.
    And the Trans People are also right in that they should be able to demand that civilisation move on to being ok about them and their way of life.
    So where in the middle do we meet?
    The politicians waded in and made a hash of it.
    Scotland knows to her cost the law can’t be depended upon.
    So… I’d say let’s do what women do and start talking 🙂
    They are proposing a change and I think it was a mistake to let politicians do their talking for them, so hopefully they get out from behind the politicians and speak for themselves.
    I’d like them to have the time and the space to make their own case and I hope that they are also prepared to accept that they won’t get everything they ask for.
    But if progress is their thing….there is a conversation to be had..
    But their is the case to make

  268. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Fishy Wullie says:
    22 February, 2021 at 2:45 pm

    I never thought it would come to this but I’m seriously considering spoiling my ballot paper on the constituency but am I right in thinking that by not voting SNP 1 either by voting for another party or spoiling your paper makes it even more difficult for indy partys to win seats on the list ?

    My understanding is whoever stands on the list needs to get in exess of 5% of the vote in that area, in order to get any chance of being elected. RISE for example only got 3% I think, similar for whatever Soidarity were calling themselves at the time.

    Hope that helps.

  269. dpg says:

    dpg=monsieur le roi. Sorry I have two different computers and couldn’t be bothered typing in my full nom de plume.

    Lorna= thanks for responding. in answer to your points at 6.01 ‘small numbers’ are not important because we are trying to make moral judgements on principle. Besides it is well established now that the main focus of politics is the correction of inequalities both for individuals and more generally acknowledged inequity such as that against women and their commonly expressed grievances. There isn’t any doubt that particular groups are disadvantaged and one of the main thrusts of politics is to correct or mitigate inequality where possible. I think within this complexity is the nub of the issue. How feasible and practical is it to attempt to alleviate sex related grievances.
    However I think the whole issue of women’s spaces must be resolved by first resolving the status and legitimacy of trans women and men . The legitimacy of adopting the idea of gender fluidity can only be tested by debate around the science and the positions put forward by other theorists such as the people who are trying to unravel the relationship between social structure, language and epistemology. My view is that the science supports the idea of a wide range of intermediate variants of sex which at the moment are not well understood, but which represent a complex array of potential, especially in relation to the relationship of these variants to behaviour.
    I think the issue is only partly analagous to the existence of a large range of genetic variants, in non-sex related characteristics. There is nothing contentious in the idea of treating (medically) a condition such as PKU.a genetic/metabolic disorder. The issue is made more complex by the complexity and medical ethics of embarking on hormone treatment and surgery which places the individual at considerable risk and with evidence the procedures are irreversible wnd without any guarantee of a satisfactory outcome. It is difficult to come a conclusion as to the success of these medical procedures
    as the outcome is not always as expected. It is then even further compounded by the idea that hormone treatment and surgery can only ever create some approximate simulation of the desired sex because the entire development of the sex cannot be replicated after the event of birth. There my be a point in the future where these cryptic (but possibly definable) sex characteristics may be reproduced or engineered but at the moment there is no prospect of that.

  270. Random Biologist says:

    @Wee Chid: You’re welcome. This pseudoscientific sex spectrum nonsense relies on most people not having a working knowledge of biology. Those of us who work in biological fields are appalled by what is going on. It is the same thing creationists were doing 10 to 20 years ago so we know it when we see it.

    @Menstruator: Exactly. Postmodernist bullshit is fine for impressing other humanities researchers with obfuscatious drivel (see Judith “Never knowingly writes anything coherent” Butler). Those of us who deal with the real world see it for the nonsense it is.

  271. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “So she was born a biological woman but is being persecuted for having higher testosterone levels.”

    Caster Semenya is biologically male.

  272. Bea says:

    And thus the plebs were divided exactly as planned. And in Scotland in this state they threw away any chance at independence for the sake of a far lesser matter that could have been dealt with democratically once independence had been achieved.

    Is it not wiser to channel our anger at the SNP into a true flexing of muscles once a pro-independence majority has been achieved?

    If the numbers reading this blog were to march on wherever the Murrell’s happen to be, could we not have them and their cabal out and a secured re-democratisation of the party with-in a week?

  273. Liz g says:

    dpg @ 9.23
    While all you say in answer to Lorna may very well be true..
    A couple of things !
    It hasn’t yet entered the lexicon of public understanding ( mind I said ye have to take the people’s with ye here )
    As you have said this isn’t currently well understood….well until it is well understood…there’s a bit of work to be done and getting ahead of it being demonstrable to the point we are making vague laws about it… is a tad putting the cart before the horse don’t ye think ?
    As I said there’s a case to make… so if science really does suggest all that ye say it does… then make it.
    That gets us to convincing the populace to absorb and apply it to every day life.
    While no impossible or perfect… the abolitionist, the suffragettes ,the ANNCP and the Gay rights experience will tell ye ye need the zeitgeist in yer favour.
    Pet politicians and money men will get ye nowhere but trouble.
    We are all more educated now so we are not talking the kind of time the previously mentioned groups had to endure… but IMO the Trans People are being used and used badly and are picking the wrong road to be on.
    Look for example at how the Yes movement have been let down because it suits them.
    Learn from our mistakes at the very least!

  274. XX and proud says:

    Shug – I think they are defined as hermaphrodyts.

  275. A2 says:

    Mind you, not voting SNP in the constituency makes them more likely to pick up seats on the list, magically making “both votes SNP” more viable.

  276. GlenIslay says:

    Sorry, but if anyone in the comments section feels the need or urge to vote Tory in any way, shape or form:
    1) You’ve absolutely lost it.
    2) Your playing right into the hands of the Sturgeonites who WANT to call you and every other dissenter a far right extremist.
    3) Did I mention that you’ve absolutely lost the plot?

    Plus if you think the Tories aren’t scrotum deep in this self-ID GRA stuff… well Johnson is a huge fan of it too and is largely the reason why the Tories haven’t been weaponizing this as much as they potentially could. Don’t think for a minute that he won’t pull the same nonsense once the SNP have been dealt with.

  277. Stéphane Séchaud says:

    The day may be coming soon when WoS really is considered a terror network. So when are you moving underground? Where is the Telegram group? When are you going to the mirror the site on IPFS? Where is the Protonmail address for secure communications?

  278. Kiwilassie says:

    Betsy says:
    22 February, 2021 at 1:13 pm
    There is potential for a spoiled paper to be counted generally in a close vote. For example if someone didn’t put a cross beside a candidate but wrote SNP on the paper that could be well be seen as a clear intent to vote SNP and count towards their vote.

    I read that the only way your non vote will be counted to show the SNP & general public you were against the way the government was going. Is to write “NONE” across your ballot paper & draw a line right down the the right hand side of the ballot paper, where a cross would be inserted against any name.

  279. Kiwilassie says:

    Here is the site that I got the info from. If you wish to spoil your vote make it count.

  280. Christian Schmidt says:

    A bit pedantic, but it is factually incorrect to call Nazi Germany “a democratically-elected government”. Firstly, the NSDAP party broke the numerous electoral & criminal laws prior to 1933, the were just cleared again and again by corrupt and biased judges (and prosecution services). Secondly, they only gained a sufficient majority in the imperial parliament by illegally arresting scores of opposition members. They were no more democratically elected than a second Trump administration would have been had the 6 January insurrection worked.

  281. Graham says:

    @bobmack 3:36 I CAN’T. I don’t have the reach. My audience is a few wings readers who also read the comments. If only I had a platform that regularly reaches hundreds of thousands of people – I would use it for good. For ‘what’s right’ if you will.

    @Zebedee; I’m not singling out bars I’m singling out people who deliberately distract from the subject matter with frivolous petty irrelevant points – rather like you have done – distract from talking about violence against trans people and say something irrelevant about bars. I’m not sure how many different conclusions can be drawn when you find the notion of non violence against trans people so repulsive that you rationalize over whether bars are being unfairly maligned.

    @dpg thanks, that means a lot to me.

    @liz thank you for your words, you need not question my devotion to rational thinking, I served my time debating creationists long ago, which is also why I tend to stick to the facts and don’t get personal. I welcome constructive criticism and I change my views when I learn. What can we agree about transism? I’m sure we agree the Scottish government fucked up. Can we also agree that some people have an incessant and fundamental belief, feeling, and experience of being a man trapped in a woman’s body, or vice versa? Where do you start on this?

    Ruby! Doesn’t a lot of the violence against transwomen occur when heterosexual men discover the ‘woman’ they are dancing with/kissing/going to bed with has a penis?
    lol ? I’m going to go ahead and guess; no. I’m pretty sure that’s not the way it goes down; but hey, blame the victim for bringing it on them self, that’s a tried and tested strategy. I’m pretty sure it’s universally understood that you are expected to be upfront about who and what you are before any unexpected cocks are discovered, and even the most ardent inclusivists would be hard pressed not to say; well jees doll you kinda brought that on yourself. But look if you have some evidence showing that trans people are actually to blame for the violence done to them please bring it. Views like the one you’ve expressed sound like they could be deployed in defence of an attacker. He was doing us a favour in case one of us was deceived into sleeping with him later. That’s just not really how it goes though, is it. I remember hearing people who didn’t approve of public expressions of homosexuality express fear of being hit on by gay men. But look now – is that a problem? I’ve never heard of that being a thing that happens beyond a laughable mishap. Men need to get over their fear of trans women. You askwhat’s wrong with calling a trans woman a trans woman? Personally I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that name, but again it’s a matter of context and intent.

    @stuart mckay thanks, good comment.

  282. Alibi says:

    Lots of folk on here saying they won’t be voting SNP. If you want Indy, who else can you vote for in the constituency vote? My local MSP is Joan McAlpine and she will be getting my vote, and I will vote SNP on the list as in this area a constituency win is not a certainty. ALL the other parties seem to be happy with this GRA nonsense anyway, apart from the Tories who are avoiding it like the plague but only for electoral gain. IMHO it is crazy to allow the yoons to thwart an SNP majority as that will allow WM to concrete Scotland into the UK permanently. The way to stop GRA is for the public to make it clear it is unacceptable – at the moment most folk are unaware of the whole thing, but publicising it will generate a massive groundswell to force the SG to scrap the whole thing or at least to modify it in line with public opinion. I suspect a lot of posters on here are agents provocateurs rather than genuine Indy supporters. Don’t assume the UK state is playing fair. Win the election, then if the FM is deemed guilty, depose her. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Leaders are ephemeral, Indy is not.

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