The counsel of despair
He’s got no right to shoot from there.
There’s less than half an hour to go and we’re holding the previous year’s World Cup finalists on their own patch. A point would be a great result, but we’ve got men up. Try to thread it through on the left. Turn, hold it up for a second and knock it out wide to the overlap on the right and get forward for a cross or a cutback. If we just wait, if we take it slow, the situation can only get better for us.
But definitely don’t waste it on a wild, optimistic punt.
Right?
The French commentary is much better, of course. The Scottish one can’t quite accept what’s happened, can’t bring itself to believe that we’re big enough or strong enough or good enough to have gone ahead legitimately (“well, the ball must have moved… I can only assume it’s taken a huge move”).
But anyway, back to politics.
We can’t rush to independence. We need to win big & get it right, says @GrayInGlasgow. We need clarity on the Brexit madness & losing twice is not an option. We need patience & persuasion. #skotia #AUOBEdinburgh pic.twitter.com/7sHBge9iKN
— Skotia (@TheSkotia) September 28, 2019
Michael Gray is a good guy. He wants independence. It’s not his fault that he’s so annoyingly young that he thinks he’s got all the time in the world to achieve it at a nice leisurely pace, while some of us already have one nervous eye on life’s ticking clock.
But the argument he makes in that video is fundamentally misguided and dangerous, for a number of reasons. Here’s where Wings Over Scotland stands.
(1) Even if we all had 10 years or more to wait, we cannot imagine events which would create circumstances more favourable for independence than this.
If Brexit is somehow avoided, it’ll be used as proof (with some degree of justification) that the UK works and Scotland’s voice is important, which 99% of the time it isn’t. But if Brexit takes place, no matter how bad it gets we’ll be told independence will only make it worse by adding even more chaos and upheaval.
Every day we’re out of the EU, with the UK government burning everything down, will in both emotional and practical terms be a step further away from Scotland being able to rejoin seamlessly, and therefore a more difficult sell to voters.
(And hey, let’s not automatically assume we’ll even still HAVE a Scottish Parliament by 2021, the way the UK government is going.)
(2) 60% support, let alone SUSTAINED 60% support, is almost certainly a fantasy. While Brexit has shifted quite a few people around since 2014, it’s been swings and roundabouts. Folk are pretty entrenched now, and even a working range of 45%-55% is probably a slight exaggeration.
If we ever DID get to a consistent 60%+, that would simply make Westminster less and less likely to permit another referendum. And Catalonia shows that appealing to the international community to step in is a pipedream.
No country that’s ever won its independence has gone back. But from where we are now, the only way to get support above 60% is to actually become independent. Like the smoking ban, people will quickly come to wonder incredulously why they ever opposed it, how something as stupid as Scotland handing responsibility for its affairs to another country that doesn’t give a damn about it was allowed to go on for so long.
Unity on any contentious topic only ever comes about in retrospect. The idea that we can magically generate a consensus whereby everyone just nicely agrees for Scotland to become independent will never, ever happen. The only possible route to unity is to win first, then behave properly and decently afterwards.
(Which is where the Leave side went disastrously wrong after the EU referendum, as to a slightly lesser extent David Cameron did on 19 September 2014 with his stupendously misguided “now shut up and let’s hear the voice of the English” speech.)
People adapt. They’ll adapt to Brexit if and when it happens – and again, every day that people start to get used to a Brexit UK is a step further away from independence. Unionists will adapt to and accept independence after we win. Not before.
(All that said, it’s also worth noting that nothing shifts opinion like a campaign. The first referendum was called when we were almost 30 points behind in the polls. People are a lot more willing to listen when there’s actually a tangible reason to, rather than it just being an abstract debate that they’ve already been having non-stop for the last eight years and are quite bored of.)
(3) We cannot underestimate the profound disillusionment that’ll descend on the Yes movement if we get to 2021 and beyond without another indyref. People have been kept on constant high alert for five years. It’s tiring and stressful.
If that all comes to nothing, if the SNP’s constant promises of delivering another vote by 2021 are broken, there’ll be anger. There’ll be recrimination. There’ll be infighting. All of those things are present to some degree already, and if another 18 months pass with no progress they’ll explode like a dirty bomb.
A great many activists will be thoroughly scunnered and walk away. The movement’s infrastructure, already thinning out and under strain, will crumble. Building back up to where we are now will take years.
To all intents and purposes, in other words, it’ll be exactly like we DID have a Quebec-style second vote and lose it. The damage will be similar, but we won’t even have had the chance of winning.
And what will the SNP’s post-2021 line be to keep the troops marching up the hill only to be marched down, yet again? “You gave us three mandates and Brexit on a plate, we blew it, give us some more and it’ll work next time, honest”?
It’ll be like listening to Labour promising to abolish the House Of Lords, like they have at every election for the last 120 years without ever really even attempting it. People will roll their eyes wearily. The SNP’s ongoing dismal transformation into their former rivals will be complete. A 2026 indy majority? Dream on.
It was right to be patient until now (although more work should have been done). But the time for patience is running out very fast. The house is burning down around our ears and the time for sitting around casually deliberating over the small print of the instructions on the fire extinguisher is just about up.
Or to go back to where we came in: you can’t always walk the ball prettily into the net after a slick, perfectly-choreographed move of 25 passes. Sometimes you’ve just got to grab a half-chance and put your laces through it.
Colin A @4:24
Thanks for the link, Scottish Vikings Wha Hae!
viking genetic marker is M17. Found in high numbers North of Caithness Around 26% Of Island population.
Sorry,just scientific awkward fact.
Lizg 1:30am
That’s getting closer to the nub of the matter.
Though I don’t really want to rehash, whether or not the ‘Treaty’ exists and was, or was not abolished by the two Acts of Union. That’s an old topic (Mr P, has some definite views there and we are familiar with them) But I may have to succumb to that topic later.
However, the fundamental issue, as I perceive it, is a peoples right to decide, regardless of Treaties, Acts, Legislation ad-infinitum. As the powers of both the UK and Scottish Parliaments and their governments, wallow in a morass of lies and obfuscation, any other position is fraught with difficulty.
So, the ball must be played as it lies. “Who speaks, under whose authority and what is the claim”? Currently all that is moot, but is basically a variation of: ‘The Scottish Parliament speaks, under the authority of the Scottish electorate and claims the right of self-determination’. The variation that “Scottish MP’s speak, under the authority etc” I find particularly interesting though.
We have been told, repeatedly, that the only recognised UK democracy, is UK Parliamentary representative democracy (So also says Scotland’s Act of Union – “,The United Kingdom… to be represented by …the Parliament of Great Britain” etc) Do a majority of Scottish MP’s currently sit at Westminster, elected with a mandate to call and hold an Independence referendum – or is that only MSP’s? If they don’t, will we return MP’s with such a mandate at a forthcoming GE?
Further recalling, that such MP’s may be representative of Scotland under UK democracy, but do not represent a large demographic of Scotland’s electorate under Scotland’s Parliamentary democracy.
Neither Parliament truly represent the entirety of Scotland’s electorate (hence the favour of a referendum) However, some form of Parliamentary ‘representation’ must be considered valid, in order to proceed with such a referendum. That indeed is the cleft stick – a sublime piece of UK politics – A majority of Independence MP’s is acceptable to Westminster, but are unacceptable to Scotland’s electorate and vice-versa.
A nice trap – does Scotland extracate itself and nullify this, by claiming a dual representative mandate, both at Westminster and Holyrood, to hold a referendum? It appears that is the current play. It forces a choice and acceptance of “Who speaks under whose authority”. Both cannot be rejected.
The smoke and mirrors, is the UK Parliament rejecting overtures from Scotland’s Parliamentary representatives. It cannot reject the same request from Scotland’s MP’s, under the UK’s own constitution and its representative democratic rules. Well, it could try, it would destroy itself in the process.
Finally, to touch on the “Treaty” question: if indeed the dual Kingdoms were extinguished, then there are no entities left to be bound by the Treaty – it ceased to be ‘live’ the moment the “Acts” were passed. There is no “Treaty” to be dissolved
I though favour the view, that neither Kingdoms were extinguished, the English Parliament was absorbed by the Parliament of GB etc and extinguished as an unique entity and the Scottish Parliament was prorogued.
References to the “Acts” & “Treaty of Union remain referenced within the UK constitutional legislation as ‘live’ ordinances. Ergo, the UK legislative constitution must consider there to be entities bound by it.
The devolution settlements of the “UK Parliament of GB etc” and its failure to create an English Parliament, will be viewed historically as its greatest error – an act of hubris which culminated in the ending of the Union.
All great logical and semantic fun. I enjoy it thoroughly.
Perhaps, due to the nature of the morass, it should be simplified as Holyrood being the valid representation of the Scottish electorate. Take the plebiscite and claim the right. But, I know I know nothing.
We are happy to have New Scots who want to identify as Scottish, no blood (or DNA) requirement. They just have to want to live and contribute to Scotland.
In these days of identity politics where feelings apparently matter as much as biology, or maybe even geography, to the SNP why should Shetland and Orkney have to be Scottish if that is not what they feel?
After all in the scheme of things we are all but ephemeral wisps of matter passing through time and space …!
Sullom Voe is already being bypassed for “technical reasons” which I believe is E&P Major speak for “tax avoidance purposes”.
link to shetnews.co.uk
“SHETLAND has been dealt an economic blow after BP and its partners confirmed that oil from the Schiehallion field is to permanently bypass Sullom Voe Terminal (SVT) after it resumes production late next year. Earlier this month BP announced that initial production from the field would go to Rotterdam for technical reasons”
The Atlantic Margin will be the same subsea pipelines enabling the reservoirs to be tied back to FPSO units and then ship to ship transfer from the FPSO to tankers heading out of UK (Scottish) waters.
Northern Isles Enclave = Legal Maritime Boundary of 12 Miles as per UNCLOS this is the usual British Nationalist divide and conquer; smoke and mirrors distraction pish and in the same tradition as British Labour in Scotlands “Jam Tomorrow” promises.
Trotted our when they are on the ropes and hope the gullible and the less politically aware have forgotten the last time such statements/promises were made and then subsequently shown up to be bollocks.
As others have said let the Orcadians and Shetlanders have a Referendum on it Post Indy and if they swallow the FibDem and BritNat pish (as usual) let them go, that is the way Democracy works.
I’m sure Westminster will dedicate a lifeline ferry service, fisheries protection and Naval vessels to enforce their territorial sovereignty (‘cos the UK Gov are renound as benevolent to all things in North Britain).
@Robert the Truth,
Aint that the truth!!
@ dadsarmy
Thanks for reposting the letter dadsarmy, its been a while since I first read it.
It struck me then as it does now just how careful Nicola is with language ( the assertion that Nicola asked for a section 30 order is of course nonsense ) in reiterating what I considered to be a very important point at the time of her speech which included ‘ asking permission of the Scottish Parliament to agree terms for a Section 30 order. For those who haven’t had time to read the letter, she refers explicitly within the letter to the Scottish Parliament authorising a referendum and goes on to hoping to ‘ agree terms ‘ with Theresa May.
Thanks again.
Remember that there are only two countries mentioned in the act of union and half of uk defense assets are Scottish, hence we will have a fairly large navy. England will have no pals and be out of the European Union and we will be in.
Iain Muir @ 7.07
It is all very fascinating isn’t it!
Legally The Scottish Parliament is an instrument of Westminster…. But politically it’s the representation of Scots, and round and round the debate goes..
The only thing we can be sure of is that this arrangement doesn’t stand up to the slightest scrutiny.
Every time the British Nationalists politicians speak of the ” most successful Union in history ” I always wish that we had a decent enough media to ask for an explanation of how exactly it works!!!
That would be fun to watch… 🙂
“I am therfore wring to begin discussions between our respective Governments to request a section 30 order under sec@@ Scotland Act”
Is that not pretty clear.
So, what IS the answer? Seriously. Having a majority and mandate politically isn’t enough. Having the polls at over 50% isn’t enough either (all for the government to allow us Indy2)
The terms of the Edinburgh Act stated ‘only in the even of a material change in the relationship of Scotland to the UK’ and the example given by SNP at the time was “If Scotland is dragged out of Europe against her will” and that IS happening yet IS being ignored. Every single mean open to us politically and legally has been shut down. Now what?
If we WERE campaigning we are starting from a position of being 50% in the polls, last time we got to 45% from a starting point of approx. 28% (if I remember rightly) Any future Indy campaign need only increase support by a few percentage points to ensure freedom.
BUT – will they EVER allow it. I’ve read Craig Murray’s views on this and I’m not sure exactly what he’s advocating, and I don’t want to misrepresent his views, but it does seem like we’ve ‘run out of democracy’
If we are simply told ‘NO’ all the time when we want to be independent then we DO have to find the means to become independent without having a referendum. THAT would require for support to be consistently well over 50%. To take action outwith Westminster’s control would require the backing of MORE people than if it were a ‘simple referendum’ Any ‘win’ on THAT basis would have to be rigorously defended and would need widespread support from the populace…
@Golfnut / @Bob Mack
As it says: “I am therefore writing to begin early discussions between our governments to agree an Order under section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 . . .”
Yes, as it says “”early discussion”. So nothing pushy in it at all, and no time limit set, whether 1 month, 1 year or 2.5 years 🙂
@Dadsarmy,
Alex Salmond had a similar letter, only he managed to do it.
Refusal should have meant Court action. Then,not now.
@ Call me Dave at 2.55
When I wrote to the BBC to complain about the spelling (and other things) in their subtitles, they told me they use voice recognition software, which of course cannot distinguish between homonyms.
They don’t proof-read it because it appears almost instantaneously – that’s their excuse, anyway.
I still think they could do better. We know there’s a time-lag.
Bob Mack @ 13:47:
Precisely. A total fantastical invention for a piece of fun, which proves nothing except to the occasional pub bore trying to stretch a point.
There are many places in Scotland which have genuine ancient fire rituals around the turn of the year. Stonehaven at Hogmanay, for example, which has a procession of whirling fireballs:
link to hogmanay.net
That doesn’t mean that the good burghers of Stoney have any special adherence to LibDemmery, let alone a desperate wish to hive themselves off into their own wee English enclave. Duh.
Culture and politics are not the same thing. People have all sorts of other interests that cross party lines. Tory MP Kenneth Clarke is a big jazz fan, for example, but that doesn’t mean that every jazz fan is a Tory.
The only people with an interest in amplifying a completely fake Orkney/Shetland “separatist” movement are the enemies of independence. As we saw back in 2014. Now it raises its ugly head again. Funny that. So what’s your big interest here…?
@Bob Mack
Well, Sturgeon’s letter has this:
“In light of the above, there appears to be no rational reason for you to stand in the way of the will of the Scottish Parliament and I hope you will not do so.”
May: Excuse me? Are you accusing me of being irrational? How rude!
“However, in anticipation of your refusal to enter into discussions at this stage, it is important for me to be clear about my position.”
May: Are you threatening me? Get lost!
It’s a letter designed to elicit a refusal “Now is not the time”.
Next up – the polite but firm reminder, without all the initial small talk.
@Robert J Sutherland,
Perhaps you should absorb what you read. My wife is Orcadian.
In any event you presume I started the topic,which amazingly I did not. I was responding to an earlier post.
All right Daddy Bear?
.
@ Bob Mack.
No Bob, she didn’t request a Section Order, see Dadsarmy above, or better still read the letter again.
@Golfnut,
My interpretation skills are just fine thanks
Bob Mack at various points
What exactly is it about “begin discussions” that you don’t understand?
@Dave McEwan Hill,
Hard One Dave. Perhaps that the discussions never began and that this was meekly accepted.
Sadly to do anything in life that involves more than input from yourself ,you have to BEGIN somewhere. This was Nicola indicating she was ready to begin. Got it?
That of course was 2 and a half years ago, and I know politics can be slow but______ Oh wait. Mrs May said now is not the time didnt she? No doubt Nicola is well primed to BEGIN discussons having patient!y waited all this time.
practice your condescention by the way. Its a little rusty.
Bob mack , we share 98% dna or thereabout with chimps. The last book i read on Scots dna claimed majority of Shetland was Scots not Viking. As for my ancestry 75% scots 25% paddy
The latter , im very happy about coz it means i can get a paddy passport if/when required.
@Lenny Hartley,
Your name is Anglo Saxon. Dates back to days of Richard the Lionheart in Hampshire. A good argument could be put up to say your DNA is probably English origin,but divdrsified through the centuries.
Hou see ykurself as a Scot.
islands have M17 Viking chromosome marker in over 26% of population. Argue if you like but that is just fact.
who cares? If you see yourself as a Scot,your a Scot.
Bob mack, yer wrong, my name comes from Ireland , in Gaelic O ‘artghaile which means Son of the Valiant Bear. It was first recorded as used by the rulers of Leinster and was recorded well before Norman Times in Ireland.
@Lenny Hartlet,
yes,thats what my son in law thought about his name,which is Hartley by the way. Further investigation revealed it comes from England. English did live in Ireland you know Lenny.
I asked a few questions late last night of SNP diehards re. where we are. Apart from a couple of direct answers by Liz and a couple of others it degebberated into the usual punch and judy..and convoluted assertions about S30 meaning anything.
One last time:Regarding the EU Ref…if we are Sovereign, why do we need the S30 ‘Request’ at all and why are we all waiting for the inevitable with bated breath?
OT:
Orkney and Shetland ‘SEPARTISTS’..anything to do with 18% and 14% RUK residents in 2011 (5% more than 2001). In a couple of generations, both will be Little Britains so no problem about assimilation into the New England of Brexitania.
Similarly:
dadsarmy says:
30 September, 2019 at 4:46 pm
2014, YES votes, bottom ten:
link to bbc.co.uk
Orkney Islands 17,806 32.80%
Scottish Borders 95,533 33.44%
Dumfries & Galloway 122,036 34.33%
Shetland Islands 18,516 36.29%
East Renfrewshire 72,981 36.81%
East Lothian 81,945 38.28%
East Dunbartonshire 86,836 38.80%
Edinburgh 378,012 38.90%
Aberdeenshire 206,486 39.64%
Perth & Kinross 120,015 39.81%
Loads of Vikings!
Naw loads of RUK!
sorry…’degenerated’
@ Bob Mack.
Not sure we were talking about interpretations, more what she actually said, which didn’t include the word ‘ request ‘
As I said earlier, Nicola is very careful in the use of language, particularly important when you don’t wish people to misinterpret or misrepresent your meaning.
On a lighter note, I was surprised to learn today that Kim Kardashian has Scots Royal blood in her veins due to one of her ancestors being Rob Roy, perhaps she would be interested in standing in for Liz the last. Gets my vote.
@Golfnut,
Seconded. I will be her Private Secretary, if I ever get my fingers sorted.
@Lochside –
If ‘degebberated’ isn’t a word it fekkin well should be.
😉
Bob mac, i have done the research the Hartley which I am descended from came from Leinster.
I have checked the various sources and some say its a lancashire name, some like you say Hampshire, the oldest records I can find come from Leinster.
@Lenny Hartley,
Those who !ived in Ireland were called by the Gaelic equivelant rather than their own tongue. Thus Hartley and its derivatives became incorporated into the mainstream Gaelic language. A bit like my own name. I would be called different names depending on which country I lived in. though I would have a family history in both.
@Ian Brotherhood
According to Lenny Hartley we are genetically 98% chimpanzees or , maybe I got that wrong, or is it 98% of the contributors are? …I think this thread has degebberated enough already Ian!
Lochside
Spot on.
I wander around Scotland and all I hear is English accents and we are aghast when some expert commenting on something in Scotland actually is a Scot.
Its a serious problem for us as England is bursting at the seams and there is no doubt Scotland has been pencilled in as the overspill and it wont take much to make us the minority in our own country.
There is no doubt about it I believe this is going to be our last chance at independence.
BREAKING: the UK has proposed a string of “customs clearance centres” on both sides of the Irish border as a key part of its plan to replace the backstop, RTE News understands. The “centres”, effectively customs posts, would be located between 5-10 miles “back” from the border.
thread
link to twitter.com
@ Bob Mack
And vice versa, Bob. See here:
link to smo.uhi.ac.uk for examples from Ulster, but the same will be true elsewhere.
(I discovered that article by chance the other day when looking for something else; I found it really interesting.)
In all fairness this thread has been quite an interesting degebberation!
@Lochside,
No fun is it? There endeth the lesson. I have deliberstely tried to provoke everyone today, just to demonstrate what it feels like to be on the receiving end of the wolfpack that inhabits this site.
Argue if you must,but try to find common ground where possible. I had decided to stop posting but thought why the hell should I back down from what I believe to satisfy others.
simpld answer. I shouldnt. So I gave you some of what posters regularly receive on here. Stop it now please. You are turning tnis great site into a ganghut for the chosen few.It is for everybody. You be nice,I be nice.
Just asked the I-Ching whether there’ll be an indy referendum before the end of 2020. (And why not? It’s about as valid as anything else right now.)
First hexagram was No. 9, ‘Gentle Progress’:
Image
Wind, which itself has no substance, can bring together clouds in the sky but they may move apart again. A good person, in difficult times, may likewise only be able to achieve small things.
Judgement
Conditions are not yet right and we cannot rush ahead to achieve the final objective. Success will come but there are still problems to be solved. The way forward is to proceed gently, adapting to the outside influences, but never weakening our resolve for the final goal. The thoughts and actions of others can be ameliorated by our influence.
That first hexagram had one ‘moving line’ (in the second place), so:
If we see that the progress of other good people is blocked there is no point in pushing forward ourselves. Needless exposure to failure has no value.
Because there was a moving line, a second hexagram can be formed. In this case it is No. 37, ‘Relationships’.
Image
Energy from the heat of a fire stirs up the wind. Such forces arise from within and are based upon a continuing supply of fuel. In the close relatonships between people, as in a family, communication is only successful when words and deeds relate together. The power to influence others is based upon a firm constancy arising from inner faith in what is right.
Judgement
In the family group, or other close relationships, it is the correct behaviour of one person to another, founded on obligations and loyalties, that brings success to the partnership. When extended beyond the small group, such attitudes promote successful business and social activities.
So that’s what a 5,000 yr old Chinese oracle has to say about it. Make of it what ye will!
😉
@Lochside –
Dunno about embdy else but I’m not bothered about being 98% chimp.
Discovering that I was even 1% Tory would really mess with my head though.
All relative intit?!
😉
@Ian Brotherhood,
I like the Judgement section
@Bob Mack
It’s good practice anyway, a dry run, and these are the sort of questions we need to be able to look up and get a good source of info in seconds or at least minutes – and to be aware of in the first place. And to be able to reply to politely.
I see a few people are trying to use a distraction technique, I wonder what’s really going on?
vote SNP/SNP nothing else.
Please read this tweet and thread.
Haven’t digested it properly yet but if memory serves this is pretty much what David Davis proposed, to great hilarity, when he was doing his Brexit shuffle.
Fuckin unbelievable stuff – it’s like watching a petrol-soaked car full of toddlers playing with matches.
link to twitter.com
In deference to a million years of evolution, schrodingers cat will resist the temptation to pick fleas off
Ian Brotherhood
@Dadsarmy,
I live and breathe for independence as my family will tell you. I find it so wearkng to come on Wings with a different view because I know the “usual” suspects are waiting to que ston your loyslty to the cause, or insinuate you are some kind of agent working for Unionist masters. it actual!y wears you down mentally. Just because you think for yourself.
how often have we seen new posters mauled after their first input ?/ Its ludicrous. No wonder people lurk rather than contribute. Anyhow.
Its easier to walk away if anything. That also comes at a cost of your self esteem. Not for me.
@Bob Mack
Aye, that’s the problem. A few put off the many, and probably cost the votes of undecideds lurking in to see what’s going on.
Ian Brotherhod 9.12
Is that the I-ching On The Cake?
Ian B , I-Ching which took me back many moons to a cosy house on Arran with two very good friends.
I am now off to reminisce for several hours which will take me away from the degebberation going on here.
@
Ian Brotherhood
That I-Ching reading was the most interesting S30 contribution yet…as for being any % genetically tory.. I would go Ape!
Degebberation indeed!
@Bob Mack..no problem with that…. as someone once said..’i admire your indefatigabi… fuck it… degebberation!
Im a Degebborate. Guilty as charged.
@Lochside –
Well, seeing as you have neologised the thing it’s your responsibity – nay, duty sah! – to provide a definition.
degebberate
degebberator
degebberation
etc…
😉
@mike cassidy –
Ah see whit ye done there!
Perhaps Joanna Cherry could provide a suitable finishing touch?
😉
@Ian Brotherhood: your I-ching post is very interesting indeed. It is completely right but is very difficult to carry through in practice. I’ve had some family conflicts lately and it is precisely because we have so much in common that makes any differences hard to accept and deal with. Same goes for Wingers!
But we should try. “Divided, we fall.”
Of interest given, they are very active in Scotland
Senior Twitter Executive Exposed as British Army Information Warrior
Gordon MacMillan, a senior Twitter staffer with editorial responsibility for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, joined the social media giant’s UK office in April 2013, however it remains unclear when he was recruited to 77th Brigade, the British army’s shadowy psychological warfare unit.
link to sputniknews.com
@Ian Brotherhood :
I’d rather be a neologist than a neoliberal or neocon!
A final haiku..in the spirit of ‘distraction’
The mud elephant
wading through the sea
leaves no tracks.
Bob mac, according to the research I did the name was known in Ireland centuries before any English or other influences were in Ireland . Basically I dont give a flying flamingo where it comes from, only where its going and hopefully it will not be going back with me to whence it came . However if Nicola doesnt get her arse in gear and we dont have a referendum by May 2021, I will be offski.
forty odd years of being an Independence supporter and all that entails on my time are enough for me. Ive got a hobby restoring old motorbikes which is being neglected by all this political/constitutional stuff.
Anyway im out, going to spend the rest of my evening watching you tube video’s of how to build a DIY Vapour Blaster ! For me much these days much more interesting than politics.
Exactly correct @Bob it was a letter seeking to begin talks on the subject of a section 30 order that never happened so no formal request was ever made
@Lenny Hartley,
Good luck with the rebuilds Lenny. I used to own an old Vincent but sold it after keeping it in a garage for 10years.
seemed a waste.
Bob Mack@6.53pm
Good to see your sense of humour shining through.
I see you have continued to post at a very impressive rate. Good on you. This is definitely the Bob Mack thread.
@Cubby,
No Cubby,
This is a Wings thread. it is our thread.All of us.
I will be in Moscow on the 10th October. Actually I will be in Moscow for a whole week making a holiday of it as the Stop the Brexit Party will still be shitting themselves about having ago or a dig whatever. I am of course talking about the SNP. I don’t se the point of hanging about to watch the SNP shitting it.
I-ching and degebberation – interesting conversation – thanks Ian
@wull2, 9.22
I see a few people are trying to use a distraction technique, I wonder what’s really going on?
could it be our friends in 77th Brigade? link to moonofalabama.org
@Iain More,
If tonights news about customs stations away from the border is true, that deal will pass unfortunately, with or without Johnson. What then ?
Interesting there, 10pm news on Yoon Stream 1 re the Naga complaint.
The BBC is officially not impartial on certain subjects. Worth banking that.
I don’t mind their partiality. Its the denial of it that is objectionable. The cloak of objectivity must be pulled away.
Well over 50 posts from Mack. Is it a record? Has he no home to go back too?
Most recent post re the border posts ain’t going to happen despite the tories floating the non paper.
The English want a 20 mile DMZ the Irish work in Km!
Bob Mack @ 22:33,
The EU might well not accept some kind of half-baked scheme fresh out of a UKGov position paper. They want a legally-watertight agreement – the backstop – not pie-in-the-sky from you-know-who.
After all, if this Brit techno fix is a flyer, why would the ERG zealots be at all worried about a never-needed backstop?
I still reckon it’s just UKGov setting up the Blame Game, despite BoJo currently having his arm twisted by WM.
@Hamish100, 51 actually. i Have a very happy home which Im sitting in rjght now whilst my other half is visiting Orkney.
Strange but true.
Aye away you go flakers. Off on your travels. The unionists will be pleased. Right into their barrows.
Pack up yer troubles in yer auld kit bags. Offski into the sunset. Smiling away. The pathetic wee threats.
@Ian Brotherhood: 9.28
Read through that lot. Yea Gods! Are they really that stupid? No way will anyone sign up to that gobbledygook that will create a 20 mile wide strip of no man’s land between The Republic and the Six Counties.
If this is a serious proposal then its time to call on the burly guys with the white coats
England grows the Marquis potato recognised as the perfect chip potato and they export thousands of tons all over the EU even America
Scotland grows the perfect seed potato and exports them to Egypt Israel Spain and other countries and they grow them and export them back to the UK and around the world
Which potatoes do we think will be more desirable post Brexit: The chip tatties or the seed tatties
It’s a funny old world innit
@frogesque –
Aye, it’s bonkers.
Do you remember David Davis proposing something similar, for about five minutes before the laughter drowned him out?
Mibbes ah just imagined it…
@Robeft J Suthefland,
Not sure if its pie in the sky. The object waS to ensure the border was kept undisturbed A customs facility prior to the border meets the needs of the EU with regard to allowing checks on produce and !ivestock. The UK was going to leaVe the border open in any event.
If Ireland and N Ireland agree,it could be done.At least it is feasible. It depends on the DUP I suppose. I cant see how it would infringe on their red !ines.
The cat’s away the mice will play. Someone’s been at the drink.
This tread is too long. Everyone starts bickering.
@Ken,
Please. If youve something to offer then do it. Keep your remarks on the topic and not on your own agenda.
Bob Mack @11.01
You say it depends on the DUP.
It doesn’t. It depends on the Irish government who will veto it. Then it can’t happen as the EU willl support them all the way.
It’s a crackpot scheme and violates the Good Friday Agreement which is an international treaty, approved and sanctioned by the UN. However the Tory Government are probably too stupid to know this, or more likely don’t care.
I think the Northern Isles were formally annexed by the Old Kingdom of Norway from the Picts in 875AD. Formally recognised by the Kingdom of Scotland as being under Norwegian rule by the Treaty of Perth, (1266), but subsequently absorbed by the Kingdom of Scotland in 1472. In 50 years time, Scotland will match Norway for tenure, but the Picts had run of a few thousand years up there so that puts everything into perspective.
Was puzzled by the dual-names on some of the street signs in Lerwick. Anybody shed any light? (Forgot to ask while I was there).
The DNA thing is fun. I’m riddled with M222, which originated in Donegal of all places. Me? Irish? Who knew…
The Good Friday agreement guarantees no border in Ireland.
It does not guarantee no Customs inspection for lorries at customs posts specially created outwith that border zone.
Just flying a kite here.
Sajid Javid makes his conference speech and this is what he said “We will give a pay rise to 4 million of the lowest paid people in the UK, some of the lowest paid in the world”
Nobody seems to have noticed the Tories just admitted some of the UK poor people are the lowest paid in the world, so he’s proud of that then
It’s not actually 100% true but in terms of the developed world it is true
Bob Mack says:
30 September, 2019 at 11:25 pm
“The Good Friday agreement guarantees no border in Ireland.
It does not guarantee no Customs inspection for lorries at customs posts specially created outwith that border zone.
Just flying a kite here.”
It’s border infrastructure. Combine it with passport/ID checks that already occur for immigration purposes + police/army to protect the customs posts and you have a recipe for disaster. The customs posts will be attacked/the customs posts will need defending.
This proposal will be rejected by Ireland and the EU, but its effectively what will happen with a disorderly withdrawal on the 31st.
There is no solution, hence the backstop.
Dark days ahead for Ireland and Scotland. I never thought I would see an SNP led administration playing an active role in this English farce. Police Scotland on the way over? Propping up pro brexit Corbyn? Surrender to the fact that Scotland is leaving the EU?
It’s a long way from the FM’s 2016 response to the leave vote.
Are the British really suggesting that Ireland lose an additional 20 mile strip of their territory to suit the British Government and N.Irish loyalists?
Don’t Irish people actually live in that area?
The clock’s ticking, just 30 days to go now, so just imagine:
Sturgeon: “Boris. Can we have a section 30 order please?”
Johnson: “No.”
Now would be the time for her and the SNP to spring their big plan that people seem to believe they have.
There are folk in Ireland whose farms houses and even driveways straddle the border
Nobody should think these folk will lie down and accept it, they won’t
@ Ian Brotherhood – great I Ching reading. Sums up the present situation. That inner fire can certainly cause a lot of wind!
I was disappointed that there was no VONC today. Typical of the LDs to refuse to co-operate with Jeremy Corbyn. They’d all rather go down with the Titanic than get into a lifeboat steered by JC. Oh well. Another failure in Westminster is probably good for the indy cause.
The ghoul strikes again. A village has lost an idiot. Deja Vu.
Kettle black. Keep on topic Aye right. The 90th ramblings. No self awareness.
@Capella
If you’re Jo Swinson you’re not going to assist Corbyn because he won’t give you a job if he wins a GE but if you don’t vote against the Tories (because she is one) if there’s a coalition on the cards you might be in with a shout in the Tories when they win
Kerr Ching! And Swinson bets on the money job
@ Dr Jim – I read, on twitter where I get all my information these days, that Jo Swinson doesn’t want an election as she will lose her seat.
I’d stay up late to see that.
@Ken500_
Dont fret Ken. The village will find you eventually.
Iain McWhirter: “I love the corporation and worked for it for 25 years.” link to t.co
Doubt it loser
@Capella
Yep, that’s my constituency she’s my MP and I know her and have had conversations with her I’m ashamed to say, and yes she is as awful as she seems
It’s more possible now that she’ll lose her seat the SNP vote is back to being much stronger again after the Lib Dem disgraceful behaviour in ousting John Nicolson who was and is one of the good ones
East Dunbartonshire is a weird constituencey chock full of people my age and older, I like to call them the dead the dying and the soon to be dead, and they all live next door to me, it’s horrible living in idiocracyville, but the yougsters are more engaged here now so there’s a strong chance she’s a goner
Swinson was MP before John Nicolson but did nothing except bang on about potholes convincing folk they were the FMs resposibility even though it was a Lib Dem council, even the folk who voted Lib Dem don’t know who they voted for they’re just dim, she never even turned up till the last few days of campaigning it was mostly all done by overwhelming leafletting and vile innuendo about Mr Nicolson and the usual horrors about Nicola Sturgeon, no policy no discussion, just horrors upon horrors would befall them all if they dared to vote for the SNP again
Naeboby….apart from the NP ….
Nae body…apart fae the Fib Dems and corrie party…want a nae deal-exit.
Swinson and Corbyn…just get it together ffs.
@Ken500,Would love to banter with you but ive got some root canal work coming due which would be much less painful.
Goodnight Ken.
link to bbc.co.uk
This should be Joanna Cherry on Any Questions Radio4 Manchester.
Unfortunately it won’t play in my location, so I can only go with what was said above that it stated what the SNP were doing was working and that Westminster would be checkmated shortly.
Hope it’s suitably deggeratable.
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is a British politician serving as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Leader of the Conservative Party since July 2019.
He has been Member of Parliament for Uxbridge and South Ruislip since 2015 and was MP for Henley from 2001 to 2008. Wikipedia
Partner: Carrie Symonds Trending
Children: Lara Lettice Johnson, Theodore Apollo Johnson, Cassia Peaches Johnson, Milo Arthur Johnson
Mr Johnson is strictly Establishment, unquestionably entitled, irremediably superior, totally contemptuous, and utterly dismissive of the indigenous peoples of English Colonies.
In addition, he is ring-fenced by the Unionist media and a designated protected species.
It is believed among the Establishment community, that he is above the Law, and can do virtually whatever he wants.
The concepts of respect, equality and cooperation are de facto alien to him.
He abhors Democracy.
Fireproofjim @ 23:19,
Exactly. (Saved me the effort, thanks!)
There’s been a lot of kite-flying tonight. It must be getting windy somewhere…
manandboy
Right on cue, here is an English perspective from the erascible Dr Richard North who is an expert on all things brexity.
Its a good laugh; an excerpt “Johnson, a serial liar, philanderer and sexual incontinent…”
link to eureferendum.com
And for those who don’t believe the English establishment is going on forums and social media to distort opinions etc.. Just see this. A
BritishEnglish Army, member of their 77th Brigade, works for twitter. And twitter, bizarrely says ‘that’s fine and dandy’.link to sputniknews.com
Not very good at espionage. There are few follower/viewers. A failure. The posts could be a conflict of interest. A breach of employment code/terms and conditions. Bringing the company into dispute. A sackable offence. Inform the company of the extra curriculum activities. Not a good company look or professional. He could get the dunt.
OFF-TOPIC
The evolution of right-wing politics: Ronald Reagan was known to break into his film back catalogue and ask his supporters to: Win one for the Gipper.
I cannot see De Piffle being as-successful, encouraging his supporters to: Win one for the Groper.
Same from RT. Well I never…
“Twitter editorial executive is British Army ‘psyops’ soldier – report”
link to rt.com
Socrates , having read some of the guff from last night your intervention brought a smile to my physog – thank you
@ Liz g.
The EU are not amused, the non papers, which I think demonstrates how seriously the border suggestion is being taken, fall far short of a viable option.
However, Boris, heaving noted how successful the last attempt to bypass Brussels was, have decided to send details of the proposal to each of the 27 members by email or was it by text.
I don’t really think this is a serious proposal, more about blaming Brussels, EU baad.
Johnston could be the shortest and worst PM in parliamentary history. Quite an achievement. The dope on the rope going down in history as a loser. Before the Tories getting boot out. The dope groper on a rope, loser. Quite a feat. After loser Cameron, loser May. The biggest loser of all. Johnston.
Who wants the poison chalice? Step up losers. How low can they go. Even lower. Osbourne the doper. Cameron the alcoholic. May the abuser. Johnston the loser. Roll up. Roll up for the next contender before they get booted out. A game changer. The next imbecile, halfwit loser to apply. Even shorter candidacy. What a total shambles. Chaotic mess of idiocy.
Lets help the Irish out by placing controls at Scotland providing we are still in the EU or at worst efta. England should be happy.
Rep of Ireland uses the euro and UK uses the pound,
how hard or easy does this make trade (local and national) across the UK/RoI border,
was there concerns when RoI joined the euro and ditched the Irish pound that trade across the border would be harder.
Got a VERY expensive mail shot through the door yesterday from BoJo’s man in Scotland, Alister Jack.
It’s a glossy, double-sided, six-page pile of keech about what a wonderful MP he is, with the backdrop of a union flag waving across the corners.
It’s main message is *drumroll* “No to a second independence referendum” just as it was in 2017. Groper Johnson does not rate a mention.
We are up against a powerful and well-funded enemy whose sole aim is to “bind Scotland fast”.
The SNP blundered strategically in 2017 by sidelining independence. The same mistake will not be made again.
Back to fundamentals.
The simple unavoidable truth, from which all the current chaos flows, is that England cannot have a hard Brexit and the UK survive.
Before EURef this was made clear by anyone which their head screwed on. Even TMay said just before the referendum that if Leave won, Northern Ireland would need to stay close to the EU. The essence of the Good Friday Agreement / Belfast Treaty was that the North and Republic would converge on many fronts under EU membership.
The Backstop in the Withdrawal Agreement is an insurance policy to protect the peace. Any alternative which amounts of divergence is a betrayal and will be considered unacceptably internationally.
If Northern Ireland gets a special arrangement, then why not Scotland? This is a Scotland which was promised that voting NO in 2014 guaranteed ongoing EU membership. This is a Scotland becoming increasingly exasperated by the way it is treated. From a Scottish perspective, the UK only had one thing going for it … EU membership. What else does the UK actually do for Scotland?
If England wants out of customs union and the single market, it can’t expect Northern Ireland and Scotland to follow.
The Tories, blinded by far right ideology and English Nationalism will just not face up to the truth. They want a hard Brexit and to maintain the UK. That’s impossible.
Another day dawns and Scotland appears no nearer to independence.
Stop Brexit, however, is still the favorite in the SNP derby although it hasn’t a cat in hells chance.
Oh, the grandeur of delusion.
re upcoming GE
Scottish tories apparently furious that Carlaw has backed leaving with NO DEAL without consulting them – is that code for Ruth is mightily displeased?
They fear a snap winter GE as traditional voters will stay at home – excuses already for why they are going to lose
they then go on to say that they want the election AFTER the Salmond trial when the SNP will be in disarray…
Perfidious England at its best.
Now that a Twitter executive has been outed as a psyops officer in the 77th Brigade of the British Army I will play a subtle game of spot the 77th squaddie on Wings Over Scotland, It is not a persecution complex you got if they really are out to get you. Y’all.
Independence is inevitable and the normal state for a nation!
Can I be your fist capture ?pleeasse.(pretty please)
Time for coffee Sarge.
I see the latest proposals from the UK for NI seems to like the old ‘demilitarised zone’ of previous conflicts. Maybe they will call it a ‘decustomised zone’ so it doesn’t sound so regressive.
Completely O/T
Was in Edinburgh yesterday. Two things of Note.
Exhibition in National Library on the Scottish Enlightenment
Next Door the French Consulate as always was flying the Tricolore and the EU Flag. Glad no butchers apron there. Flags at half mast due to death of Jaques Chirac.
Soon!
Golfnut @ 8.18
Your probably right Golfnut. It’s hard to say which is the more disturbing though,that Johnstone is ” playing ” at solving the Irish Border issues,or,that he really “believes” that this rubbish is the solution?
Bob mac @ 10:10 pm , bet u wished you had kept the vinnie, big bucks now,
Its Velocettes I like most, especially the racers, wish i could afford one!
@Lenny Hartley,
My old nejghbour ,now sadly deceased,had a beautiful Velocette which he cleaned weekly. His family sold it before he died and he was broken hearted. I tnink the bike kept him going.
I made good money on my Vincent(Black Knight) as it was oe of only 200 ever made before Vincent went bust i n 55?
The SNP did not take Independence off the agenda, The first Rule in the agenda rule book the belief in Independence for Scotland. Written down for all to see including and supported by the members.
The 2015 SNP Election achievement was one of the highest in electoral political history. Since 1928 Universal Suffrage. The highest achievement ever, Even higher than the Labour landslide victory 1945? One of the highest ever,
The benchmark achieved was exceptionally high. No doubt as a result of the declaration of Evel on the steps of Downing Street. People realised the had been duped with lies and broken promises. Just as the EURef. Unionists lies and broken promises
May decided to go for another election. 2017. The Tories lost more seats. Lost an larger majority. The Tory losers,
The SNP still gains a sizeable majority but not as outstanding as the exceptional 2015. It could be expected a re adjustment, but still a substantial victory. Out voting all other parties. Just a readjustment. A normal reaction. To the massive outstanding victory of 2015. Difficult to repeat in any circumstances. Until the next GE. Another major feat.
An illegal party emerged. The Ruth Davidson anti Independence Party. To dupe the voters again. Totally illegal under electoral Laws but funded illegally by Tory unionist supporters. Black funds and campaigning. Totally illegally. Against electoral rules and gerrymandering. Some of them have paid for it with their position, ie Ruth Davidson no longer leader of the Tories. Paid for the duplicity with her position. For all the lies and illegal activity. Another one gone, another one down. Another one hits the dust.
Do not ever trust a Tory. Especially in Scotland. They started all of this mess and shambles. Total lying sycophants. A public disgrace. Death and destruction. They will pay for it. At the Ballot Box. Their supporters are getting killed off. Austerity. So is everyone else, illegally. Watch them try and start a war, illegally. To try and divert attention. Trump refused to start trouble on the Russian border although Johnston wanted it. Even more turmoil and strife, Wasting public money. Johnston the waster. Losing public money.
2017 voter fatigue. To many elections. After elections. The voters stayed away to register their disgust of Westminster Gov. Most had just had enough. It was also raining heavily in some areas. The LibDems voted with the Tories, The fence sitters made their move. A perfect storm, Now regretting it re Brexit. The next election will be a different kettle of fish. A perfect Tory Brexit storm. Sweeping them aside. Especially in Scotland. The EU matters brought down Thatcher. Deja Vu. Geoffrey Howe, A few choice words got rid of Thatcher. .
Everything to play for to embrace a better world.
The loser’s back, Too much time and looking for attention but nothing much to say.
@Famous15
There was another poster here called ‘geeo’ who made it their mission to hunt down those that they felt were not pure enough. They got banned because they were horrible and went after Terry, amongst others.Is there someone else who does that here?
What makes you think you have any expertise in this matter? Maybe you are deflecting because you are afraid your handler has told you to up your game ? Are you worried you are about to be outed?
I can tell you there are a number of posters here who post under more than one name – they use clusters of phrases and the construction of their sentences are uncannily similar. A simple piece of software can detect it. They all post similar sentiments to the one you have voiced. They go after posters who disagree with their orthodoxy, the end result is to put people off posting a range of opinions.
Shall I say who they are? Or will we wait for you oops – they – to show themselves up?
@Ken500,
Go back to sucking your thumb. It will help you stop typing nonsense.
I now expect some sort of rant.
Pretty please @ 9.22 am .
If the shoe fits,eat it!
@Famous15,
Yum yum.
@ 9.11 Disagree with your orthodoxy you say?
If someone unrelentingly undermines your wish for independence I would say that my little game of spot the 77th is too easy for an adult game .
Nobile officium AKA “nob off” case begins:
link to twitter.com
Adam Boulton Sky news says Hong Kong used to be a British responsibility. I think the word you are looking for Adam is colony.
Britnats cannot make up their minds if the British Empire is a good thing or not. Some want to casually hide the past, like Adam, others revel in the glory of conquering and murdering people all over the world – for good reasons, of course, the enrichment of the British and the civilisation of the natives.
Lots of Britnat media coverage of protests for democracy all over the world like Hong Kong but not so much for the friendly peaceful Scottish independence protests just up the road from London. London wants democracy across the world but just not for Scotland.
Here’s what the SNP will face at coming GE: link to twitter.com
They were warned about going down this path.
@Famous15
‘… unrelentingly undermines your wish for independence…’
Who would that be? Those who keep telling you to sit tight and wait or those who search for other means to effect change?
The most dispiriting thing is to be constantly told you cannot have what you want because ‘now is not the time’ and those who have the power to change that are doing nothing about it.
Now back to your witch hunt, whoever you are. If you cannot argue your case without discrediting the poster first, it is not much of a case is it?
Boris’ Border Bollocks
link to twitter.com
GOTCHA!
@Robert the Truth,
Imagine people who behaved like this in the real world.They would be tzken to their GP by family members.
Customs Clearance Centres
Just another time waster. No deal exit is heading our way – sooner or later.
Well done the Britnats. After laying waste to N.ireland for decades they now want to repeat the trick. At the top of the lying Britnat pyramid there are seriously nasty people. Below them are some seriously bigoted people followed by some seriously stupid people.
If a poster claims there are no Britnats posting as an independence supporter on Wings then they are either very naive or a Britnat. Take your pick.
@Bob Mack
It is so obvious as well.The same people all the time. They are not even any good at it.
Wings is the site that is the biggest threat to the UK establishment. Undermine Wings, promote the SNP and you have your status quo. Job done.
@Cubby,
Dont worfy Cubby, Famous is on the case !!
Proud Cybernat @ 10.32
They were well warned…. I think that’s partly why Ruth the Mooth left. She supported it as did all the other parties.
The new leader of their Scottish branch will likely be against it and make it an issue to try to turn an election on!
The Trans People are a small enough group to be chucked under a bus by the Tories without any real electoral consequences,and they too were warned that they were being used as a political pawn.It wasn’t the political parties the Trans People needed on side to affect change,it never was,it was and is Women whom they needed to meet halfway!
Cubby says:
Civilisation LOL
I read somewhere recently that in 1800 the estimated GDP and average standard of living of India was higher that the UK’s.
Then followed 150 years of industrial scale (literally) plunder, abuse, and general ripping off.
You need heavily rose tinted specs to put a positive spin on the British Empire. And of a large percentage of the UK population don’t have a scoobie what actually happened. The two main thrusts of the Empire revolved firstly around slavery in the Caribbean and America providing sugar, cotton, and tobacco. Then secondly opium from India being sold in China, the money laundered then used to buy tea to be shipped back. The British Empire was the biggest criminal enterprise in history.
Thank god there’s Ireland.
Galamcennalath@11.03am
“The British Empire was the biggest criminal enterprise in history”.
It certainly was. Yet even today we have a head of state that hands out “honours” celebrating people as a Commander of the British Empire CBE. Seems like not everyone agrees with us that travelling around the world, murdering people, enforcing a membership of the British empire and then looting resources is something to be deplored. Sad in 2019 that these opinions still exist.
Bob Mack@10.51am
“Don’t worry Cubby…..”
Cheers Bob. I won’t – there are more than enough worriers about on Wings. So many independence supporters posting on Wings seem to be so convinced that independence is not going to happen I wonder how they get out of bed in the morning with all that Doom and gloom swirling about in their head.
Thanks for your concern. Much appreciated. Hope your hands are holding up ok with all that posting you have been doing. I will concede that you were right in your previous post to say this thread is not yours but everyone’s. So there you are Bob a winning point for you.
“nob off”
I like it 🙂
Seems very appropriate for BoJo, somehow.
If you want to maintain the integrity of the UK but pretend that you are representative of all the voices therein, how would you go about?
Well, you would ‘allow’ a party to exist that notionally represents Independence but neuter them through vagaries of voting in Holyrood. You would ‘allow’ them certain legislative powers but none that give any real power.
You would undermine the desire for Indy by setting thresholds and saying that until there is a majority in the polls you won’t act on anything. You would write polite letters asking for a chat about Independence but when they are rebuffed you lick your wounds and go away. You say you want an election, a VONC but you allow Unionist Westminster parties to dictate when. You effectively amplify the message that this is not the time’.
If there is a site that challenges these strategies and posters highlight this, you turn on THEM and the site owner accusing THEM of being in the 77th. You discredit the site owner by questioning his Indy credentials. You go on other sites and tut tut about WoS and how it has ‘lost its way’, make insinuations about money and the site owners’s questions about GRA reform and the direction of the SNP.
Now who on this site constantly does that? Who benefits if WoS falls?
Boris’ alternative to backstop …
“1) Would the integrity of their single market be protected, could they be sure rogue goods and food from Northern Ireland would not taint their market?
2) Would the increased friction in trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic endanger the fragile peace on the island of Ireland?
3) Does Johnson have the authority in parliament to secure agreement for a new deal from MPs, if EU leaders meet some of his demands? “
…chances of him succeeding? Not high IMO.
So the real choice is delay or illegally crash out. Exciting times.
link to archive.is
Independence is inevitable.
Independence is the normal state for a nation.
Why let fools destroy your future. For your friends and family take back control of your own destiny.
Britnats believe that telling the truth is an illness to be avoided.
@ Liz g – re the survey on attitudes to GRA and self ID: it is also an issue that Labour may be pursuing. I had no response from the SNP to four emails asking for clarity on their policy. Not even an acknowledgement. But I have now had two emails form Labour MSPs offering help.
Contrast this with Shirley Anne Somerville telling an LGBT rally last Saturday that the Scottish Government will reform the GRA and that trans women are women. Video of this is circulating on twitter. This is the same SAS who is too busy to meet representatives of women’s groups who disagree with the policy but regularly meets trans lobbyists.
Promising a consultation and announcing the outcome before the consultation has happened is not good practice.
But they were well warned so I can only conclude that they expect to reap thousands of votes from the ordinary members of the public who, until now, had no idea what this policy is about.
Who would most like to see this site eliminated because it asks awkward questions?
Who has gone ballistic that a poll asking questions about the GRA reform has highlighted the utter madness of the policy?
I ask again, who benefits most from denigrating posters who ask questions about the SNP strategy?
Acouple of days ago I watched a programme warning that there will be shortages of fresh fruit and veg post Brexit and they explained in great detail why
This morning scientists have informed the nations that they’ve discovered that eating more meat and dairy is actually fine and dandy even though they’ve been telling us for umpteen years meat bad more cancers
What a lucky coincidence that that’s the very thing we’ll have enough of post Brexit
The British Empire
The British Empire along with other empires like the Roman Empire can be taught in schools or other places of education in basically 3 ways:
1. Fact based and totally objective with no value judgements.
2. A negative value judgement applied to the empire.
3. A positive value judgement paced on the empire.
Guess which way the UK likes to apply in its schools to the British Empire.
galamcennalath says:
“The British Empire was the biggest criminal enterprise in history.”
As this book proves.
“Cruel Britannia” by Ian Cobain, a history of British torture.
It appears that Westminster can only do politics, including economics, when it is bolted into a framework of psychological operations (PsyOps) aka propaganda, including data harvesting & micro-targeting, aka lying from a to z to the electorate and the general public, as well as to the European Union.
It feels like we are all swimming in a UK completely flooded with Westminster’s lies, a pool of virtual quicksand, being slowly sucked under.
Independence – our only hope, sadly now under impending further threat because of the SNP leadership’s Achilles Heel, its obsession with inclusivity/trans-gender self-id, soon to be targeted apparently by the Unionist Alliance in the forthcoming General election campaign.
But, hey, nobody’s perfect.
After 312 years of often brutal and cruel English Rule and exploitation without limit, let’s not blow Independence this time around by focusing on temporary issues to do with personality and individual tastes, but instead rather on the permanent ones of self-determination, freedom and self-government.
It is time to break chains wrapped around the Sovereignty of the Scottish people by the English Establishment and Ruling Class for 312 years.
Theres a reason that they tell you to secure your own safety before tending to others before a big plane crash.
I can appreciate the SNP trying to do the right thing and trying to save so many in UK from a terrible Brexit fate but sadly they have painted themselves almost into a corner and have become a part of the Westminster establishment.
Pete Wisharts recent “joke” at wanting to become next Speaker said it all…I don’t care if it was all for a laugh and piss-take.. I don’t want us playing any of their games and all focus should be on the ultimate goal, always.
Remember when we laughed at Ruth and Co shouting “Get on with the day job!”..seems SNP took it a little to heart.
I don’t see a grand plan, and whilst “Don’t interrupt your enemies…” is a nice idea, we need to show some fight, unleash Joanne Cherry, lets get some anger out there.
Declare what the Independence intention is before any GE manifesto is just “Our Brexit Plan” and gets lost in the Farage deafening hubbub
Boris is not going down easily, if at all, and should he win a majority ( or even a coalition with Brexit and/or Swinsons Fanc Club) then we are doomed. Holyroods powers will get closed one way or another and we will all suffer as the Croydon pound philosophy takes hold.
2nd class Scotland prepare for the worst unless you do better.
The leader of a party with unprecedented goodwill after IndyRef1 is surrounded by Civil Servants and SpAds whispering in their ear that their charismatic predecessor may be trying to undermine them. This takes a sinister turn.
Suddenly everyone is under suspicion. An influx of new members many with their own agenda meanwhile are lobbying hard for ‘progressive’ policies. They get the ear of the beleaguered leader who is totally suckered into supporting this with no way out. The distraction levels are sky high.The main focus is lost. Something needs to be done because the grass roots are getting restless.
Indy sites then become swamped with huge waves of propaganda to dampen down any dissent. Wings is under attack both personally and from people who claim to support the site. The niggles start.
Then full blown war.
And the people who highlight this are the ‘bad guys. Really?
@Desimond,
The problem with playing two agendas is simply this. You can very easily be sucked in to playing one of the two more than the other.
Independence is the SNP game. The routine of Parliament is Westminsters game. The SNP are now concerned by the rules laid down by Westminster as well as the agenda and time scales.
I want to see them cast those aside. I want them to disrupt and hinder Westminster whenever possible.
The only one I see doing that is Ms Cherry.
we are actually too busy helping at a cost to our ultimate aims.
@desmond: 1.08
Joanna Cherry is reported to be going on the Edinburgh march this Saturday. Bring on the fire!
This is interesting
I reckon the outcome in Northern Ireland will have a huge impact on what happens regarding Scottish independence.
The British border across Ireland separating Ulster from the rest is the main topic in brexit negotiations again.
Any sort of hard border even one a bit of distance away from the actual border will cause trouble let’s see what the outcome of the negotiations are because whatever they are they will affect Scotland and Scottish independence
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
“THEN WE ARE DOOMED ”
“Boris is not going down easily, if at all, and should he win a majority ( or even a coalition with Brexit and/or Swinsons Fanc Club) then we are doomed. Holyroods powers will get closed one way or another and we will all suffer as the Croydon pound philosophy takes hold.”
Nah, nah, nah. A thousand times nah. Defeatist nonsense, ignoring Scotland’s legal position under the Act of Union, and the untouchable Sovereignty of the Scottish people. Not to mention the consequences for trade which would plunge the rUK into Third World conditions.
And in any event, unless Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson PM, completely changes his spots, he is on the right track toward failure, and rejection by the Establishment and his own Party. By refusing to obey the Law, and by disrespecting the Supreme Court, Johnson is committing political & electoral suicide. He just doesn’t know it yet.
Well done the SNP
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
Well done the SNP , again
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
Well done SNP , more houses built
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
@Terry Callachan,h
Those are grezt posta Terry. They remind us of why the SNP is untouchable in Scotland. They must stay focused on what the voters want tnougb.
Luckily, the totally secret 1320 Society has undiasporaed and reformed, and after their recent stop in Japan to drop off some of their secret elixir, will shortly be arriving back in Scotland having made contact with us members here already.
I could tell you who is the head of the 1320 Society, who is already here in Scotland, but then my three person cell and I would have to [redacted] you.
Be aware, Scotland needs wares.
@Dadsarmy,
The goose is on the water.
This message will self destruct in 5 seconds
Oh and Brexit don’t forget about that. Always Brexit at the forefront of every stalled move forward. We can’t have Indy because we are busy with Brexit…
Every condition set has been met for another IndyRef. The mandate is there, the support is there. What has to happen next?
And still there are people here who consume themselves all day every day with the minutiae of who has not met the purity of thought, word and motive test that they created in their own tiny minds. Soon there will be just the 5 of them, telling each other ‘great post’ because it does not disturb their comfortable one dimensional view of what what support for Indy is.
Yes, imagine living like that every day, suspicious of people you have never met, attributing lives and motives with no basis other than they they have a different opinion of how to achieve independence.
Yet when it is done to them they rail against it as if we must believe they are above the suspicion they constantly cast on others?
It must be exhausting. I worry for them. This is enough for me for now, real life and fresh air beckons.
To all cells:
“You’ll have had your Brexit then”.
To the shit-stirrers, doom merchants and general disrupters here (you know who you are and so do we) – hey, guess what?
WE’RE ALL STILL VOTING INDY AND YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT.
Indy support is STILL RISING and you cannot STOP IT with your
shite posted here.
But do carry on – I totally love watching the desperation. Your UK is FUKCED. Get over it.
As far as I am concerned the clock has been wound up for the last time.
Vote SNP/SNP nothing else.
I heard Truthless Davidson (remember her) was on Celebrity Chase. Surely Pointless Celebrity would be more appropriate.
Some of the glass half empty Independence supporters should pitch up in Edinburgh on Sat it might help raise your spirits. You can watch it on independence live but the real boost to your spirits will come from participating.
Just had a letter from the Scottish social attitudes research folk to take part in their studies and they give you a voucher for a free tenner to collect at the post office for participating
Happy days I’m off to collect my £tenner
What was worse Accuri sleeping with Johnson or taking public funds for doing so – all allegedly of course.
Terry Callaghan…
The trouble with talking up a United Ireland is that the knuckle draggers and mouth breathers, who dress up as tin soldiers and march up and down playing penny whistles, will leave the former British Ulster in droves and set up shop in Ayrshire and Lanarkshire where they will continue to spout their sectarian bile whilst violently displaying their Ultra-Yoon credentials.
I’d rather Ireland remained partitioned until such time as Scotland has left the UK if that’s ok with you.
Off Topic. BREXIT. The Tories in Scotland do a U-Turn.
She’s gone, and the big fellas move in and toe the Head Office line.
The National newspaper yesterday
link to tinyurl.com
Scotland didn’t vote for Exiting the European Union. End of.
Proud Cybernat has gone over to the crazy side.
TODAY. BREXIT and Labour.
” Labour has rejected the idea of a “government of national unity” – headed by a figure like Ken Clarke or Margaret Beckett – to prevent a no-deal Brexit.
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell said any interim government – formed after the removal of Boris Johnson – must be headed by Jeremy Corbyn……”
BBC Politics on-line.
LibDem Jo Swinson MP for Dunbartonshire East rejects Corbyn as temporary PM and now Labour rejects!
Are these people really serious?
All of Ireland wanted Home Rule/Independence. The mass movement was led by Protestant landowners/estate owners because the Catholics were denied rights. To own a horse (transport), carry a sword (Defence) etc. Eg Charles Stuart Parnell. Same in Scotland. The Jacobites or those who resisted Westminster imbecile rule. Now people have the vote. They can go through the Ballot.
The Westminster unionists impose electoral systems to benefit them in NI and Scotland. D’Hond’t, STV etc. The 3rd loser wins.
An Irish Home Rule Bill was scheduled to be passed into Law two weeks after the start of the 1WW. It was postponed. This led to the illegal Partition. 1923. Lloyd George. To suit the unionists at Westminster. Universal Suffrage 1928. Even after 1918 the Irish could have voted for Home Rule/Independence. Thwarted by Unionists.
Ireland can vote to reunite. Demographics are changing,
Swinson’s a Lib Dem Tory so would never support anybody else no matter what the reason
What she’s doing is letting Boris Johnson know that she’a available to vote for him in return for a coalition if he wins a GE just like they had before and a cushy number for her in it
Brexit is of no concern to Jo Swinson, that’s only a problem for poor people and the like, she’ll always be able to claim her tooth floss on expenses
Career Career Career
Boris Johnson is at the tailors being measured up for his rest of life Kevlar suit
@Dr. Jim: 4.08
Jo Swinson will have to be re-elected in a GE first.
Smiley thingy.
Reuters…
” U.S. investment bank JPMorgan raised the probability of an extension to Brexit to 85% from 60% and cut the likelihood of a no-deal departure from the European Union.”
… and yet the Tories still talk of successful new withdrawal agreements, and leaving one way or another on Hallowe’en.
@Frogesque 4:24pm
True, she’ll have to find an English seat to do it in because East Dunbartonshire looks like it’s eventually cottoned on to her, well the young folk have
I’m doing my best to help her on her far away way
Is Boris trying to broaden his gene foothold in England?
(National: today: Kirsty Strickland.)
Ha! But..but Swinson “I’ll do anything to prevent Brexit” and
Christine Jardine says the other night. “Aye! that’s true but not Jeremy as temporary PM, he’s not got the confidence of the house”
Now Labour saying “Jeremey is the one and only!”
SNP FGS!
“We’ll be forced to go on our own maybe but nobody will hold our beer?” 🙁
Has to be the leader of the SnP in the commons as PM!!
My guess it the Tories will be looking for a new treasurer of the 1922 committee 🙂
Peter Bell has written a personal letter to the FM in his blog well worth a read
@Jockanese Wind Talker 7.13
I have done a lot of research on where oil is landed v’s where exports are credited to. This oil will not be treated by the UK as a Scottish export
Oil landed in Holland is credited as an export from London and the SE of England. Greater than 60% of Scottish oil and gas is treated in this way to put together the UK regional export statistics
In a similar manner, most of Scottish Whiskey is credited as an export from London on the grounds that Diageo and other companies are registered for VAT there.
Electricity produced in Scotland is credited to London and the SE and to NE England if exported to France or Ireland. Ditto gas
There are several other gross inaccuracies in estimating Scottish exports arising from these adjustments. UK stats do not credit Scotland for trade in services (e.g. banking, tourism) and intangibles (e.g. financial investments or transfers)
But despite all of this Scotland has always had – even according to UK Government ‘adjusted’ statistics a massive quarterly export surplus
UK export statistics for England show massive quarterly deficit going back to the 1960’s – despite getting the credit for most of Scotland’s major exports using the adjustments above and others.
Were Scotland’s real exports to be reflected in the official statistics they would be ‘off the graph’ compared to rUK
see here for the 4 UK Nations latest ‘official’ adjusted statistics link to uktradeinfo.com
I had a long FoI war with these lovely people in 2016 and 2017 querying the basis of their statistics
For instance, all petroleum products consumed in Scotland were treated in the statistics as an import from England.
I eventually forced a few minor adjustments (£billions) which they refused to backdate to correct the historical data. Most of the gross irregularities in accounting for regional imports and exports were not corrected.
The Scottish Government publishes its own analysis of exports and imports which is obviously considerably at odds with the brigade 77-style stats above and reflects well on Scotland. See link to www2.gov.scot
But even these stats still do not reflect the full (positive) picture
I did write to Stu suggesting that Wings sponsor a couple of PhD’s on this subject to accurately reflect imports and exports going back (say) 20 or 30 years.
Data is all published and the adjustments made to the UK official statistics reversible to find the true figure.
From Cymru with love:
link to nation.cymru
@CadoganEnright,
I would love to see that research. What that fantastic bit of detective work would do for indy is beyond description.
It’s an old and cynical joke, but, watching De Piffle waffle on truly is a case of knowing when a politician is lying – definitely when his lips are moving.
RobertTheTruth @ 14:04,
Oh, pleease. You made your point a very long time ago and now you sound like an old stuck shellac record. Can you not start to make some positive contributions instead of the same predictable old moan? As it stands, you are just scroll fodder, so you might as well not bother.
On a no deal Brexit
Alister Jack Scottish sec of state says the Scottish Conservatives ahave been brought into line with the rest of the UK party
So far we haven’t heard any of them bark or even whimper, maybe Ruth Davidson will howl or whine
But I doubt it
Heart of Galloway @ 08:51,
Huh, that fusty old tactic really worked out well for the Tories in the EU elections, so not-so-good luck to them in the forthcoming elections. With Alister I’m-all-right Jack in front, Boris in behind and the SNP taking them full no-prisoners head-on over our rights, it’s going to be fun, fun, fun!
UKGEs are by no means the ideal opportunity, but this one will surely ratchet up the pressure nicely. Let’s focus on it and see what develops thereafter.
Dr Jim @ 18:15,
Craven and useless. But at least there’s no doubt now about what they truly are, and who/what they really represent, having sloughed-off Buffalo Gal’s carefully-confected humanoid skin.
Now we know why Jack was given the secretary of state against Scotland job. This guy is an even bigger groveller than Mundell. These people have no shame – Scot Britnat Tories being told to come in to line with Westminster on a no deal Brexit – anyone who thinks these people will ever stand up for Scotland need their head examined as they must have been kicked in the head by a donkey.
I hope every one of these Tories in Scotland get the boot at the next GE.
Alexander and Truth posts I now scroll on by. Waste of time reading their same old crap.
@Robert J Sutherland
Apologies. I really don’t post that much.
When I have something to be positive about, don’t worry I’ll let you know!
We know the Irish border can’t be in Ireland, and we know it can’t be in Northern Ireland, and we know it can’t be in the sea
But we know the way they keep moving this border it’s getting closer to my house every day and I’m in Glasgow, look out Edinburgh the Irish border will be round your way any day now
I did some sums based on Javid’s let’s vote Boris in minimum wage projection.
If the sum is £8.50 currently and with inflation increasing on the back of Brexit
I see nothing reason to see inflation at a minimum of 4% over their proposed 5 year term.
I make the minimum wage to be £10.35 over that term.
So the £10.50 they propose in this case would mean employers finding and extra 3p per annum to add to the hourly rate!
Priti Patel is going to introduce a new *Special Services* to police her immigration laws, she didn’t need the *pecial or the ervices* she could’ve just cut it short to SS , easier to say, trips off the tongue don’t you think
Does anyone know what the script is with BoJo stating there will be 40 new hospitals built (or existing ones reconditioned).
How does that sit with previous PM’s policy and the Naylor report.
Wonder if tax payers are going to see their dues being funneled to big construction firms who will build the shiny new hospitals, only to see said hospitals sold off to the private sector on the cheap.
Boris Johnson meets his Scottish underlings and informs them of the consequences of not supporting his no deal.
link to youtube.com
@Dan,
Government is going to rake in a fortune over the next few years from new car sales.
Basically old cars pre 2017,keep theif old tax rates, but new cars except electric pay a minimum of £135.
They are also harging extra on diesel cars and those over £40,000. It is a huge revenue increase.
Enough to finance their plans at our expense again.
Priti Patel and her ilk are the very enemy of Humanity. It’s see you next tuesdays like her who have gotten the US in such a pickle with 17 odd security services all vying for the same buck – which means they will do whatever you want them too, in office hours and out. And we all know the kind of person drawn to security services…..unfortunately, so does Priti Patel.
Englands own worst enemy has come to town.
Robertknight…3.05pm
The question of reunification of Ireland may well be settled before Scottish independence
I say that because if a no deal brexit goes ahead and border checks in Ireland resume
there will be trouble in Northern Ireland
and I think that trouble will lead to a reunification referendum
You might be right that some people move from NI to Scotland as a result of reunification
But not if Scottish independence happens about the same time
Terry Callachan @8:20
I disagree – trouble in NI will have the opposite effect, which is why one might think that these nutjob little englander tories are deliberately trying to set the heather alight – they dont give two f*cks about peace in Ireland – it’s about status and power on the global stage for the GREATEST EMPIRE EVER KNOWN! – RULE BRITANNIA and all that pish.
I’ve been skimming through the comments of this thread and there is a definite air of despondency amongst them towards both independence and the SNP. One post that caught my eye was one which mentioned that we the Scots people are too conservative in nature to ever want as big a change as independence.
That is true but such a conservative attitude works both ways. We may not want change away from the status quo but we also don’t want to get rid of the things we take we granted.
It reminds me of a chat I had with a work colleague. She is stupid in that she talks about how she is claiming single parent benefits even though her partner lives with her. She also constantly bad mouths the SNP all the time. Recently I gently reminded her, although not mentioning anything about how she is a benefits cheat, that the Scottish parliament has devolved powers over some benefits and that they will be taken away by the Tories if they get rid of the Scottish Parliament. It looks like the penny has dropped with her has she has kept her trap shut about the SNP since.
It does seem rather than going on about independence, there needs to be a new message about preserving the Scottish Parliament. It is not perfect and has made many mistakes but it is far better than the Tory Government down in Westminster. This can be seen ever more clearly now where they are trampling all over democracy and society. The choice is simple preserving the rights you have even if that means by going for independence or have them taken away which the Tories will do. They illegally tied to prorogue Westminster and if they had the chance, they would shut it down. If they will do that, they will shut down the Scottish Parliament.
If faced with that question, maybe the penny will drop with a lot of Scots people who enjoy the benefits of the Scottish parliament and give them something to think about.
CadoganEnright @5.37
Re crediting oil exports to Scotland.
I noticed that the new Lancaster field, West of Shetland, has now shipped four tanker loads to BP in Rotterdam over the last three months.
That is 1.2 million barrels in total. Worth at least $75 million and this will continue at an increasing rate for the next thirty years at least
If you are correct this will be credited to London, as will the billions of dollars to come from this field.
The SNP should make much of this.
Can you expand on this please.
How can it be a `frictionless border` when both sides use different currencies,
when travelling over the border you need to change/buy currencies,
frictionless = effortless,
clearly not effortless if you need to buy/exchange currencies.
Pacman@8.51pm
Shutting down the Scot parliament will mean in due course:
No free university tuition
No free childcare.
No free elderly adult care.
That tends to get people’s attention. I know because I tried it out recently. Net result some friends/family attending on Sat in Edinburgh who would never have thought of going before.
A number of people have become comfortable with the benefits of Scottish devolution and they need to become aware that instead of the status quo things may go backwards.
Aye, true enough when they say there are “Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics” @
cadogan Enright says at 5:37 pm
I think your PhD proposal is a fantastic idea.
I also believe all companies operating in Scotland should be legally compelled to submit Tax Returns to the Scottish Government breaking down sales/exports in/from Scotland (even though we don’t have control of VAT yet) for comparison with U.K. statistics.
I also believe in actually taxing E&P Majors for extracting oil and gas from our territorial waters rather than giving them tax rebates as per Westminster.
Westminster don’t tax the oil and gas extracted from Scottish waters
The way they get the money from the oil companies is that they sell off areas of Scottish waters for oil and gas exploration to the highest bidders .
All that money goes to Westminster
There is a website the oil and gas authority which shows when and which areas are up for action
But we never get the figures showing how much money they got from the auctioning
Ahundredthidiot 8.28pm
What is it you disagree with ?
1) reunification of Ireland might happen before Scottish independence
2)there will be trouble in Northern Ireland if brexit no deal and border checks go ahead
3) resumption of troubles in Northern Ireland will lead to a referendum on reunification
4) some people might move from Northern Ireland to Scotland if reunification of Ireland happens but not if Scottish independence happens about the same time
Terry Callachan reoil and gas taxation, you are wrong , although Petroleum Revenue tax has been phased out, there is a special 30% corporation tax rate for Oil and gas production companies.
No, I think I’m gonna be another Winger who gives up.
If a comment goes into moderation, like what happened to me on the 30th September at 10.43am with my reply to Cubby’s comments of the evening before, you email to Rev Stu to ask “why” some hours later, you get no response, while Rev Stu is continually active on Twitter, you try again, tonight, with an explanation about the moderation WHICH ALSO GOES INTO MODERATION, you lose the urge to comment.
Seeyiz on Saturday. You too, Cubby.
Keith Brown is quite happy with the system in use in Scotland and the rest of the UK, even though “it’s quite antiquated”.
So why does our voting system remain antiquated? As when Mears vans pick up the ballot boxes and deliver them to a central counting centre. Mears is part of the Unionist structure, yet they get to have possession of the ballot boxes for a while.
While Keith Brown has no concerns.
Dr. Jim @6.52
That’s it then – my banner at the march in Edinburgh on Saturday will be : –
” No Hard border in Edinburgh – Humbug!”
Brian Doonthetoon, don’t give up, Brian, the liklihood is that you will have used a banned word, without realising it. Stu’s software has ‘caught’ it in ‘fishing net’, and you’re left scratching your head in frustration. Been there, done that.
Look through your comment to see if you can spot the offending word. For me, it was ‘saor’. Good luck!
@Meg merrilees 10:08pm
Too late Meg it’s in Rotterdam now
Politics is sooo fast moving these days
If your post contains letters like that lttle fruit that comes in green or red or black and quite often seedless
or Canadian curtains the Gremlins will seek out and destroy your post
Anybody seen the gruesome interview with Boris on BBC Scotland webpage? 9 Deliberately not including the link – he was on R4 Today and i had to switch it off he is such a liar)
Did you know that the Scottish Nationalist Government’s inadequacies include:
an appalling record on health in Scotland – NOT QUESTIONED OR CORRECTED BY THE BBC INTERVIEWER – e.g.could have talked about the A and E figures best in UK;
an appalling record on education – BBC Interviewer could have pointed out NO tuition fees but Boris kept the best till last, lying blatantly –
staring straight into the camera he stated that they (the UK Gov) promised Scotland that the 2014 indy ref was a once-in-a lifetime- event…. so now you know, it is on record for all time that it wasn’t Alex Salmond OR Nicola Sturgeon but the (p)UK government that PROMISED Scotland it was a once-in-a-lifetime event.
Amazing how you change history at the flick of a finger eh? and now peeps have heard and seen it on the TV it will be set in stone like the Ten Commandments.
Oh! Maybe that’s why they are protesting so much in Hong Kong!!!
Has the SNP been infiltrated aye maybe higher up than you’d think maybe!
Oil and gas taxation
On 14 February 1973 the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee issued its report “North Sea Oil and Gas” (HC122). It reflected a comprehensive review of the oil industry, government administration, and the exchequer implications.
It noted that: “Under the present arrangements the UK will not obtain either for the Exchequer or the balance of payments anything like the share of the “take” of oil operations on the continental shelf that other countries are obtaining for oil within their territories. Indeed at present the only certain revenue from a large number of the North Sea operations is the royalty and licence payments. This situation needs close review…”. It was particularly concerned that profits from continental shelf operations could be offset by extraneous losses and capital allowances.
@PacMan
You might have read my post. In truth most electorates in most countries are ‘conservative’.
Even in what we think of as rebellious Ireland. Compliant India is another example.
My view is that positivity will take us so far, but like you imply, a little bit of pain & negativity might help too. Hope in the presence of despair. Please make the bad thing go away.
Boris to reveal his deal at conference and has sent the details to Brussels.
Special status for NI for 4-years
“But…but will the DUP be happy?” asks interviewer!
FFS! Hey! Will Scotland be happy? 🙁 BBC never thought to ask.
Anyhoo! It wont fly says Ireland. Brussels should say the same.
Not long now.
Pac Man @ 8.51
I agree, we need to be pointing out the flaws in the Union a lot more this time!
While it’s all very fine to point out a pensioner that what they have is not at risk, ( and let’s face it a lot don’t believe us) reminding them that they risk the Tories coming after the little they do have ( TV license ect ) if we stay is also fair comment.
Another thing I find quite useful to make them think,is pointing out that all the good jobs are kept in London.
That doesn’t just keep all the high paying taxes there..
A lot of pensioners have, or know someone who has, a Kid who has left for London. That’s an emotional unfairness of life in the Union that’s hard to argue against.
To say that we want future Scottish kids to be able to stay here and still earn good money is,I think, an uncontroversial conversation!!
May and her Britnats always said they would never put up customs posts in the north of Ireland after brexit. They always claimed there was no need for them whatever happens.
Johnson is now accepting customs posts will be needed regardless of brexit outcome – no-deal or deal.
Small difference in britnat attitude I admit, but still a difference.
Johnson definitely going for no-deal. He’s deliberately pissing off EU to ever higher levels.
Ach, then again I could be totally wrong. Happy days.
Cubby @ 1 October, 2019 at 9:09 pm
Thank you for your kind words.
Reflecting on what I said in previous post, we Scots are conservative in nature where he don’t like changes from the status quo that are new. We also don’t like changes from the status quo where things are taken away from this. We have seen this with the historical Scottish involvement in Trade unionism and workers rights, not to mention greater democratic rights with the support of most of Scottish society throughout the years for devolution.
The status quo here and now is the Scottish parliament, which isn’t perfect and the current government not perfect as seen with the ongoing debate with GRA/Self ID, but since the SNP has taken over has done a lot of good both for Scotland as a whole and individual Scots and you mentioned Cubby with the benefits they receive which is not enjoyed in other parts of the UK.
Brexit and the freedom it will give the Tory party in Westminster is a substantial threat to that status quo. If that happens and if Scots want to preserve the status quo which gives them benefits they would not normally receive, they will have to go for independence.
It might seem double talk that for them to preserve the status quo they want they have to go for substantial change which they didn’t want in 2014. However, as well as these benefits, they are also losing EU citizenship and the benefits that goes with that. What is the more destructive change? The status quo which they experience now, albeit being an independent country in the EU or continuing being part of the UK which will involve substantial change, most likely for the worst for most ordinary Scots?
If we are wanting any chance of independence, we need to get the support of the EU until we gain full membership. It is better to be a preferred country to the EU than a third country as what will happen to the UK after it leaves. To do that, we need to do everything we can to stop Brexit or to minimise the damage both to us and the EU. I know a lot of people in here don’t like and it feels like squandering our best chance for independence but we need to play it by the book and not be sneaky and underhand as the current Tory government if we are to win friends in the EU and hope for their protection and support in the early years of independence.
The way things are going, Brexit is inevitable and nothing can stop it. Although in trying to stop it is futile, we simply can’t be seen to be facilitating it from happening even though it benefits our short term interests.
Once Brexit plays out to it’s logical conclusion, then the Scots people need to ask themselves what path do they want to take. Do they take the blind leap towards independence or sit back and let what rights and benefits they currently enjoy be taken away from them?
Call me Dave @ 10.29
Happy doesn’t even come into it Dave lol..
One day of “special” trading arrangements breaks the Treaty of Union….
I know,I know it’s been broken many times since 1707…
But the people of Scotland accepted this and ratified the Treaty only on 8/9/2014.
Westminster accepted this!
The Treaty is predominantly a Trading Treaty…
So the question would become which Treaty do Westminster want to “try” to keep intact?
The Good Friday Agreement or The 1707 Treaty of Union…
Enquiring Scots need to Know?? 🙂
Me @ 10.43
18th September 2014… Duh… Obviously 🙂
Jist as well I’m no writing Treaties… But I promise tae be mair careful wi the Constitution… 🙂 🙂 🙂
Scotland needs the EU and NATO to protect it from London in the years after a vote
Be assured London already has a department targeting and undermining everything Scottish and it will go into overdrive with an unrestricted budget as indyref2 approaches hence my belief that the run in for indyref2 must be swift
Jock McDonnell says:1 October, 2019 at 10:23 pm
I think it was your post that I read.
I know it sounds like I am suggesting negativity but another way to look at it is that you would not work hard to better yourselves then knowingly beggar yourself. If you wouldn’t let that happen on a personal level why would you let it happen on a societal level which in turn will beggar you? In short, why would you let the things you worked hard for be taken away from you?
There is no doubt that negativity and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) was how the No campaign won in 2014. As seen, that was short lived. It could or couldn’t work for the Yes campaign in a future referendum but it needs to be framed like I had previously said in that independence is going to be leap of have for individual Scots and will present a lot of uncertainties but they are going to lose a lot by not voting for it. Are they willing to accept this?
The simple fact is that this time the referendum will involve change regardless for ordinary Scots regardless of how they vote. What change do they want?
From the Guardian … “Boris Johnson will lay out details of his final Brexit offer on Wednesday, setting up a high-stakes fortnight with a threat that if the EU27 fail to engage, he will press ahead with no deal.”
… but, but, ‘no deal’ is supposed to be impossible now with the ‘Benn Act’ in place.
So, Johnson talking bollocks or he has a plan to circumvent the will of parliament?
News coming in from the Scotsman journalist Paris Gourtsoyannis that Downing street are already rehearsing a Genereral Election where the focus will be on the destruction of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP using similar tactics as they used against Scotland previously depicting Nicola Sturgeon as the thief of Englands democracy and manipulator of Jeremy Corbyn