The Betrayer
So that’s it, then. That’s the grand plan.
We’re sorry, but we’d say the game’s a bogey, gang.
Nicola Sturgeon took over as SNP leader (and therefore also as de facto head of the Scottish independence movement) surfing on the crest of a tsunami. Her predecessor – now completely written out of party history in a breathtakingly shameful piece of Stalinist revisionism – bequeathed her an organisation that had more than quadrupled its membership in a matter of a few weeks and was surging towards an election victory of staggering, unprecedented, unbelievable proportions.
But since then, it’s been downhill all the way.
Five years and two months have passed since Sturgeon assumed the office of First Minister on 20 November 2014. Since that day, the people of Scotland have gone to the ballot box on SIX occasions, and on every one the SNP have won a clear victory – in four of those six elections, by a margin of more than 20 percentage points over their nearest opponent.
2015 UK election: 26-point margin
2016 Scottish election: 22-point margin
2017 Council election: 7-point margin
2017 UK election: 8-point margin
2019 European election: 23-point margin
2019 UK election: 20-point margin
(Holyrood has also voted for a new referendum twice.)
And yet the party whose primary/sole reason for existence is achieving independence for Scotland has taken those six resounding mandates in half a decade and delivered absolutely nothing with them. For all those millions of votes, Scotland is not one inch closer to its independence now than it was on 19 November 2014.
But that’s not to say things have stayed the same. Scotland’s situation has become far worse. As of next week, it will have been wrenched out of the European Union against its people’s clearly stated wishes, as expressed by a 24-point margin in 2016.
The SNP sought to save Scotland from that fate NOT by winning Scots the right to make the decision for themselves via independence, but by instead focusing for three and a half years on overturning the clear democratic choice of England and Wales – a strategy both morally questionable and which never had a credible hope of success.
While Sturgeon repeatedly insisted that only a “legal” referendum was an acceptable route to independence, not a single step was taken to establish a legal footing for one to be held. The correct interpretation of the Scotland Act, for which there are numerous learned opinions on both sides, remains as undetermined now as it was when the Edinburgh Agreement enabling the original indyref expired more than five years ago.
That matter could have been resolved one way or the other at any point since – or indeed before – the EU referendum. Had a case been lost we’d have been no worse off than we are now, begging for the grace and favour of a Conservative government.
Or failing a court judgement, the SNP could have used an extremely rare period of arithmetical leverage at Westminster against a comically weak minority government to negotiate a second referendum in return for allowing a relatively soft Brexit deal to pass. (Which was the best-case scenario for everyone in any event – as it is we have the worst one, with the UK facing a hard exit and Scotland without an escape route.)
But the Scottish Government sat on its hands and did nothing but accumulate a pile of worthless mandates while the clock ticked down, and now Scotland stares into the abyss of another decade of destructive Tory rule, denied the protections of the EU, and with the existing mitigatory powers – indeed, perhaps even the very existence – of the Scottish Parliament in grave peril.
This colossal, criminal dereliction of duty lies squarely at the door of the SNP.
The ostensible strategy of using the catastrophic implosion of the UK to slowly build Yes support to some imaginary trigger point where it would become irresistible has failed utterly. Despite years of the most ruinous and shambolic UK governance in history, with indignity heaped on calamity every day, the dial has barely twitched.
We were told that the Brexit vote would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that the arrogant, dismissive exclusion of Scotland from the negotiating table would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that the visible disintegration of almost every promise made by the Leave campaign would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that the election of another Tory government would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that Theresa May’s high-handed rejection of the first formal request for a Section 30 order would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that the Etonian buffoon Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister would send support soaring. It didn’t.
We were told that his contemptuous dismissal of a second formal request for a Section 30 order would send support soaring. It didn’t.
The SNP were unable to weaponise the most abysmal UK government and opposition in living memory – dragging the UK back to some sort of dark 1970s nightmare theme park and turning it into a global pariah and laughing stock – to generate any detectable increase in backing for independence whatsoever.
And still we’re being promised, like gullible idiots, that the NEXT outrage – this time the actual consequences of Brexit happening for real – is the one that’ll send support soaring. One more time up that hill, troops. Just one more heave. We need only kick in the door and the whole rotten structure of the Union will come crashing down.
Honest. We won’t pull the ball away at the last second THIS time. Just give us one more mandate, one more cosy and lucrative term in office, and we’ll give you your freedom. Really and truly we will. Would we lie to you?
This site has warned for many months that the 2020 referendum Nicola Sturgeon still insisted on promising as recently as last week was not going to happen. Everyone knows it isn’t going to happen. Any SNP politician you ask will tell you privately that it isn’t going to happen. Any claim to the contrary is a bare-faced lie.
That’s why countless senior SNP figures like Angus Robertson, Kenny Macaskill, Pete Wishart and several others have been flying a series of kites this year: preparing Yes supporters to be let down as gently as possible, marched down the hill yet again and told to focus on the 2021 Holyrood elections instead, building support to the mythical 60%+ that will somehow guarantee the UK government’s surrender.
(Although the chances of ever getting near 60% without an actual real campaign are pretty much zero, because if there isn’t a referendum on the tangible horizon the vast majority of normal people simply don’t want to hear about the bloody constitution any more, whether it’s the UK or the EU or whatever. They’ve got lives to get on with. Fix the potholes in their roads and empty their bins. If there’s a vote they’ll pay attention, otherwise you’re just wasting their time hectoring them over an abstract concept.)
But the true reality is grimmer than that. If Boris Johnson had even an ounce of animal cunning and wit about him, he’d give the Scottish Government their Section 30 order tomorrow and watch them panic like headless chickens mad on Red Bull.
Because the cold hard fact is that the SNP is in absolutely no financial position to fight a second independence campaign this year, or next year, or any year soon. Two unscheduled UK general elections have stripped its coffers bare. Hundreds of thousands of pounds from two supposedly “ringfenced” fundraisers for independence have instead vanished into the hungry maw of the party’s seat-winning machine.
According to the most recent published accounts the SNP held just £411,000 of cash in hand at the end of 2018 – even though the 2017 ref.scot website alone had raised at least £480,000 by the time it was suddenly closed down. The current yes.scot appeal is thought to have also raised hundreds of thousands. (Though for some reason, unlike ref.scot’s, its running total has never been displayed on its website.)
Both websites were/are clearly branded as SNP undertakings, so it’s highly unlikely the money is being held by a separate Yes Scotland-type company or similar. If it is, it’s an extremely well-kept secret within the party.
(Yes Scotland itself, semi-interestingly, still exists. Although it shut down its entire online presence a few weeks after the 2014 vote – its website was wiped and its social media accounts fell into immediate and permanent silence – it survives as a “micro-company” with zero registered assets as of its latest accounts on 31 December 2018. Its secretary is Scott Martin, an SNP solicitor who signed off on the large bulk of the company’s spending throughout the indyref.)
Numerous senior SNP sources have told us that any enquiries as to the whereabouts and availability of the “ring-fenced” fundraiser money are met with a brick wall. So far as is possible to establish from public information and investigation, the cash raised in 2017 has – in direct contradiction of what the SNP said at the time – in fact been spent on normal party activities and fighting elections. That appears to us to be something alarmingly close to outright fraud.
Since those accounts were published, that slim £411,000 warchest has subsequently had to be raided for two more elections in the past year (European and UK, estimated combined cost £1.5m+). And of course another Scottish Parliament election – on which the SNP typically spends around £1.5m – looms just over a year away. So barring a sudden major windfall, it’s clear that money’s literally too tight to mention.
In that area, though, large donations to the party have dried up almost completely. Its biggest benefactors – bus tycoon Brian Souter and lottery winners Chris and Colin Weir – haven’t given it any money in years. Souter last donated (and is unlikely to do so again) in 2014 and the Weirs in the spring of 2017, nearly three years ago. As a result, donations in 2018 plummeted from £1.42m the previous year to just £0.32m.
The tragic death a month ago of Colin Weir may or may not provide that windfall by bringing the SNP a bequest, which is where almost all of its sizeable recent donations have arisen. Out of a total of £347,000 in large donations in 2019, for example, at least £289,000 (83%) appears to have come from dead people leaving cash in their will. But the living no longer seem inclined to back the party to pursue an array of increasingly unpopular woke and nanny-state policies and a worsening domestic record.
(Rumours have also long abounded that the Weirs were, let’s say, less than wholly delighted with both the SNP’s deployment of their money and its transparency about it, and about its reliance on them for funding. Their enthusiasm for the party, rather than the cause, is said to be limited, and the absence of donations for either the European elections or a crucial UK election last month would appear to back that up.)
Membership income is also on a steady decline, down by around 20% from £2.74m in 2015 to £2.25m in 2018. A party which normally likes to trumpet its high membership figures hasn’t published any updated numbers for around 18 months, suggesting (in conjunction with the income stats) that the direction of travel is significantly downwards – albeit still more than double every other party in Scotland put together.
The above figures may offer us the most generous of all the possible explanations for the SNP’s lack of any meaningful activity in the field of independence in the last few years. It may be that it simply knows it doesn’t have anywhere near the resources to do justice to an indyref campaign in the next few years, and needs to sit tight and try to somehow build up a fighting fund again.
But there’s also a less charitable view, which overlaps to some extent with that one. As we’ve discussed before, seen from the perspective of its own self-interest the current situation suits the SNP rather agreeably. It has dozens of MPs sitting at Westminster, drawing themselves nice fat salaries, expenses and gold-plated pensions in exchange for almost no practical responsibilities amid the glamour of London, and a very useful amount of much-needed cash for the party in the form of Short Money.
Its domestic hegemony at Holyrood also seems secure. It enjoys a 20-point lead over the Scottish Tories, who are near their natural ceiling of support, and Scottish Labour is withering to a complete irrelevance as anything other than a Unionist block on the Tories. The 2021 election looks like a shoo-in, and even this far out it’s hard to see where any credible challenge in 2026 might come from.
Another indyref, though, might greatly upset the applecart, whatever the outcome of it was. Another defeat could cause serious damage in all sorts of obvious ways – see the history of the Party Quebecois in Canada, which has plunged from 45% in 1994 to just 17% in 2018 after narrowly losing two independence referendums in semi-swift (15 years) succession.
But a victory would be a double-edged sword too. At a stroke the SNP would lose both a huge chunk of its income and its main reason to exist if Scotland voted Yes. It might splinter into left and right factions, and certainly the unifying force keeping together both the party and its voters – many of them currently holding their noses over various policies in the name of independence – would be gone along with the Short Money.
As a political party rather than a cause, then, independence is undeniably a massive threat to the SNP. So the last thing it needs right now, for a whole boatload of reasons, is another referendum any time soon. That silhouette may not be who you think it is.
But if we’re wrong – if we’re being too suspicious and cynical and a 2020 referendum somehow happens – what of the campaign itself? None of the weapons that Unionists used in the last indyref have been disarmed. Indeed, in several respects the SNP have taken the campaigning position backwards in the past few years.
In 2014 this site had a clear and honest answer, for example, to give to anyone who asked what currency an independent Scotland would use – the pound (realistically in a currency union, or at worst via sterlingisation). Since the fumble-fisted fudge festival of the Growth Commission report, though, we can no longer confidently tell people the same thing. We just don’t know what the plan is any more.
Brexit has also muddied the issue of borders, both in terms of the EU and the UK. And the SNP have handed opponents new sticks to beat us with too:
Despite that, it’s still this site’s belief that were there to be a referendum this year, Yes would win it. The case for the Union in 2020 is simply too enfeebled, by Brexit and by other things, to stand up to the scrutiny that an actual campaign forces. But any victory would have very little to do with the efforts of the SNP, and indeed would in large part have happened despite it.
The party has been the custodian of the fight for independence for over 80 years, but through cynical careerism, stupendous incompetence or both, the current leadership has not merely dropped the ball, but punctured it with a garden fork, set it on fire and kicked it onto next door’s roof. The SNP have done far too little, far too late, and it’s incredibly hard to imagine any future circumstances where the odds could be more in our favour than they are now. We HAVE to take the shot while it’s there.
Our big problem, in short, is that when we need the SNP to be this:
What we’ve got in charge of it is this:
This article has avoided repeating some exceptionally troubling allegations that were made to us by several high-ranking figures in the independence movement while we were writing it, because we currently have no documentary evidence to verify them. That may or may not remain the case. But it remains the view of Wings Over Scotland that only a complete change of the aforementioned leadership (and its toxically insular and incestuous modus operandi) offers any hope of success in the foreseeable future.
That’s not an easy road to take. While there are several viable options for a new leader of the party, they’re all at Westminster and finding a new First Minister from the ranks of SNP MSPs is a rather trickier task. The pickings are pretty slim, and it’s tempting to wonder if it’s been engineered that way. But be that as it may, change is necessary.
And we’re almost out of time for that change to happen. The best – probably the only – chance for it will come this April, for reasons that will become clear sooner than that.
We see no merit in wasting our breath between now and then. So we’re going to make like Underworld and take two months off. We’ve saved up a lot of holidays since 2011, working 365 days a year until recently, and it’s time for a proper break – particularly from the relentless attacks against Wings from within the Yes movement, which have dramatically increased over the last year or so in both frequency and intensity.
(Who would have guessed that after surviving a decade of bitter Unionist fury it’d be a bunch of snivelling crybully SNP activists who finally got the 60,000-followers Twitter account of the world’s biggest pro-independence website silenced? It’s a side issue at this point, but an independent Scotland under the current woke-poisoned SNP frankly looks like a less and less attractive place to spend the rest of our lives.)
There may be posts now and then if something particularly significant happens, there’ll still be some social media chat and we’ll probably keep the cartoonist in cat biscuits, but otherwise it’s time to do something else for a bit and see where we are in April.
If the answer to that is “still being led by Nicola Sturgeon and Peter Murrell”, then the reality is that the war is probably lost and it’ll be time to shut up shop permanently. It’d certainly be difficult to see much point in starting a Holyrood list party that could do nothing but stand helplessly by while the SNP squandered yet another mandate.
(It’d be considerably easier to just sit here churning out reheated platitudes year after year and enjoying a modest but quite comfortable lifestyle off the back of the annual fundraiser, but Wings has never lied to its readers and that’s what we’d be doing if we kept going and telling you independence was coming when we didn’t believe it.)
So let’s keep all our fingers crossed that it isn’t that, and that this isn’t the end. But we very much fear that it might be. See you later, folks.
She’s on about “frustration”.
Yes, it’s you that’s bringing it about, Nicola!
Aye. I’ve not much to add myself.
My heart is broken too.
Sturgeon the coward.
New Wings party please.
For the three or so years, I’ve had a John Lydon quote
in my head…”Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”
Wake me up when we’re independent.
Feeling like the lads at Derby in 1744.
The Del Boy Man, he say No
It has been plain as a pikestaff for years that Sturgeon has no interest in pressing for Independence. I wait with genuine interest to see what her acolytes come up with here to excuse her now.
I will continue to work for independence.
But there is an anger and frustration and my target will be the Westminster establishment not Nicola Sturgeon who is now just a little irritation. My focus will leave the SNP and move to the broader YES movement. I will not leave the SNP but I will bypass it.
Why was this not said three and a half years ago, this same speech will be said again in another three and a half years, it’ll never happen we have to think out the box, Westminster will only start tightening the screws, we’ve just gave them our whole plan opened up and let them know we haven’t got the b- – -s to fight for Independence, something’s just not right.
Well done Nicola , let’s win , no wildcard.
Nicola might be the leader of the snp
But she’s not the leader of Indy ref movement
She’s doing nothing
Talk is cheap
It’s time for the movement to take charge
We are the people
Lost for words…
If I’d wanted to hear that sort of potted history and statement of the blindingly f**king obvious I’d have rejoined the SNP and gone to conference.
Here’s our grand plan – we’re going to talk a bit more and form a committee… so we can talk a bit more.
Then we’ll ask Boris if he’s changed his mind.
If he hasn’t, we might have to talk to a solicitor then talk a bit more.
But be patient… The SNP has only been around for 80 years – not the 8 days it sounded like!!!
That’s it.
Done.
End.
Fin.
Sad as it makes me, I cannot disagree with anything you wrote here. I’ve said it many times, and been blocked by Wishart. The SNP at Westminster have been seduced by its charms. That is what it is designed for. Where else are they going to get 12k plus a month, and treated like Royalty. The SNP in its current form are simply kicking the can down the road. I had hoped I would see independence before I die. I will be 71 soon. I know now it won’t happen. The London machine has become to powerful
Job not so well done, it’s pretty clear that the interests of Brexit from the SNP has cost them dearly, I mean, if Brexit is not your issue because, ‘you’re going to leave the UK and stay with the EU’, the SNP sure showed a lot interest and contempt to rUK politics, for a party that wants no part of rUK politics.
I mean it says it right here – where the SNP were ‘focusing for three and a half years on overturning the clear democratic choice of England and Wales’.
I thought from the start that using Brexit would be a strategy to gain support from Scots for indyref2 – but the fact that the SNP had took every single step possible to prevent Brexit and somewhat quashing their own mandate for claiming scots did not vote for it.
Even still, the division is at it’s peak because of the SNP, you cannot amass unified support for advocating the indyrefs and the EU referendum. Should have stuck to the one issue of tracting support for indy, rather than start quarreling over the EU.
I’ve been saying this for 18 months now :
You will NEVER get a plebiscite on independence while Sturgeon & Murrell run the party.
I await the SNP loyalists spinning like crazy. Scots Renewables should be particularly amusing – gods know we need something to laugh at…
The attacks continue from those deluded people banned from here on other more compliant SNP friendly sites. Obsessed, I tell ye.
Well if anyone has the temerity to come on here and defend her after that…
See you later, Stu and best wishes in your next endeavours.
The “ring-fenced money” raised by the SNP for Indyref2 in 2015 which subsequently disappeared, is a bit less than Peter Murrell’s salary and expenses in the time since – which is one way to form a mental picture of where it went.
– ignore ‘own mandate for claiming scots did not vote for it.’ because Scots of course, did not vote for Brexit.
What that was meant to reference was that the argument for Europe may have lost the argyment for an indy Scotland – Just by accepting that the ‘rUK’ voted leave would have been enough for Scots to build support to want to leave and rejoin the EU, but people are gaining their wits about them that actually, advocating to overturn a legal referendum does not make you more ‘trusting’ when you want to campaign for a legal referendum of your own.
Crying
So Ian Blackford is just a blowhard then. He made many statements at WM all of them proving to be no more than empty rhetoric. I see support for the SNP about to plummet, I won’t vote for anyone else, unless a real independence party emerges, I will merely stop voting. What’s the point, I will get a Tory government no matter what I choose.
It may be just as effective to have a low turnout in Scotland signalling the rejection of the place than send empty vessels.
Ian Blackford
@Ianblackford_MP
·
12m
Excellent speech from
@NicolaSturgeon
giving leadership to the people of Scotland as
@BorisJohnson
takes Scotland out of The EU against our will.
@theSNP
will step up its campaign for indy and respectfully engage with undecided voters. Scotland will determine its own future.
Aye and you can fuck off too.
“Scotland will not be removed from Europe against it’s will…..”. You’re a fucking liar.
Well my opinion for what it is worth, the Trojan Yoon trolls and the Rev Stalking trolls can Fuck right off.
Enjoy your break, Rev. See you in April when maybe circumstances will have changed but I’m not holding my breath.
Couldn’t agree more, the SNP has been a disaster to the independence movement ever since Sturgeon took over, Our last hope is that Salmond will be cleared and Sturgeon will stand down, she and Murrel will have to go
Its more than time she was removed from the leadership. You need to fight fire with fire and she is as soft as butter.
Thats it.
Fair play to the Rev he has called this for 6 months prior at least.
Notable that so many of the big names on here,have all dissapeared.
Maybe their own above average powers of reason led them to the same conclusion but they could not face it?
So there might be a glimmer of hope still come April? I can’t wait but until then I have no doubt that many in the movement, myself included will now quietly get on with our lives until hopefully that glimmer of hope becomes a reality, I will no longer march, campaign or even share any post from the SNP, they are on their own now as far as I am concerned, This is a sad day for Scotland and not only because of Brexit. sickened beyond belief.
If not the SNP then who else?
Sturgeon used to be called feisty. Now she’s fusty.
@ Camy
No one, we’re fucked.
Nicola Sturgeon has said there will be a Scottish independence referendum this year 2020.
We will hold her to that.
If it doesn’t happen she will be out of the job as leader.
Camy says:
31 January, 2020 at 10:23 am
If not the SNP then who else?
A Constitutional Lawyer who knows the difference between a Nation’s Constitutional Sovereignty, and the adopted conventions of a devolved assembly.
Camy says at 10:23 am
“If not the SNP then who else?”
And you still think it’ll happen under the current bunch of troughers and Toom-Tabards?
Read Stu’s article in full and don’t jump straight to BTL, then watch the footage of NS again and listen very carefully to what she doesn’t say as much as what she does, then come back and tell me you still think it’ll happen with her and hubby at the helm.
That was quite the (expected) anticlimax. The only positive I see if people can stop amarmily talking about “secret strategy” now. As many of us have feared for a year or 3, the SNP are no longer the route to, or party of, independence. They are the new Scottish Labour. They can fix this within the next few months, or expect the same fate.
Dark days.
I do not blame you one little bit for retreating from your prominent active service role. I think many independence supporters will follow a similar path and simply switch off. There are plenty household matters, family concerns, gardening projects that will now be attended to. Who needs the daily anxiety of continual disappointment and false hope..?
That is the BEST post that I’ve seen by the Rev since I joined here, mainly because it’s things that I’ve been saying and posting here AND taking abuse for, so it’s absolutely terrific to find out that at least one other person shares similar views and opinions to myself. Vindication is probably the wrong word, but that’s how it feels, to have the guy who runs Wings saying the same things as I’ve been saying!! It’s brilliant and really made my day!
But here’s the BIG question:
The Rev gets it. I get it. A few others get it.
But why do the majority of independence supporters DON’T get it???
We’ve been played, scammed and the SNP will continue to do so as long as the majority don’t get it!
So, WAKE UP!! Fuck the ‘Woke’. WAKE UP!!
Don’t often post here these days…
But I feel the SNP has done a Corbyn – managed to lose when the opposition was risible. And also done a Mandelson – managed to appear to be something it absolutely no longer is.
With a milquetoast leadership, Salmond on the rack, and a far right Tory corpocracy in place at WM – delivering what is probably going to be the worst national/political decision in my lifetime…
We’re not going to get independence by being nice.
It’s difficult to come to terms with, but I’m now more embarrassed to be Scottish than proud. Because unlike Stuart, I still don’t think Scotland would vote for it’s independence.
I don’t know what else to say.
Well if there has not been any shift in the opinion of the people is it worth risking another??
A campaign might shift it in our direction but with the BBC on a war footing this is by no means guaranteed
Am unhappy but lets wait and watch the fishermen and farmers feel the pain. 100,000 job losses with Brexit is not going to help the unionist cause.
You can go on holiday
Give up
Moan and swear cry and jump up and down
Get angry
The game remains the same
Nicola Sturgeon is telling it as she sees it
You are disappointed feel let down
You want action now
Nicola Sturgeon has s said there WILL be a Scottish independence referendum this year 2020
She is still saying that
Now is not the time to give up
We have to keep doing what we do
We will hold her to the promise that a referendum will be this year 2020
She was way worse than I thought she would be and my expectations were very low to start with. I switched off.
She just told Johnson, the Tory government and everybody else in the world that Scotland is powerless, that Johnson can do whatever he likes to our country and we can do nothing to stop it.
Shut Holyrood? Yes. Strip our NHS of its EU doctors, nurses and other staff or sell it to Trump? That too. Destroy our workers’, consumers, environmental and human rights? Absolutely, they’ll all go.
How can we be stuck with neighbours who bleed us dry – take, take, take – and we have to suck it up. Nuclear weapons stored at our doorsteps, Beaufort dyke a dumping ground for tons of ordnance just off our coast, paying for HS2, Crossrail, etc., etc., with Scots getting no benefit.
She needs to go. The whole blithering hierarchy at SNP need to go.
I’m incensed and I’m so, so sorry for EU citizens who have made their homes here and put their faith in the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon’s words. They were sold a pup. They must now be even more worried about their futures. Sturgeon should be ashamed.
I’ve felt this for a while but kept hoping that we weren’t being had but we were. It’s a sad day for Scotland that we have such people leading us into oblivion.
During and after the big event in March, the MSM will rip into the party with a ferocity not yet seen before. This is their biggest opportunity in recent years. As a result, my guess is a new leader will be in place later in the year. It will take a lot to recover from the fallout.
We are prisoners and the leader of the SNP just basically accepts it. So we are being taken out of the EU with a worse deal than Theresa May’s, we have enabled a extreme right wing government at Westminster. And the SNP hands are covered in blood in all these outcomes, they have played a blinder (for the Tories anyway).
The party has really lost its teeth since Salmond and Robertson’s absence. Two real titans, replaced with much fanfare by charlatans it seems.
If Nicola believed Scotland has a legal democratic right to have Indyref2 then she should go to the Courts and take the fight to Westminster, Who Dares Wins etc. The SNP need a bold leader who takes risks, All or Nothing and as you say, if the Courts say ‘No’ then its not much difference to the current situation. Also she wants to increase support in 2020 while alienating Women who make up 50% of the population. It doesnt add up, she is hanging on for dear life, hoping to get to 2021 and pass the batton while she goes on to a bigger prize for herself.
The SNP have failed their purpose. Like every “good guy” they see the means just as important as the ends. So rather than stand up and fight fire with fire, cause mayhem where they can to obtain independence – it’s all lawyer talk – and more talking and more talking and more talking as if the other side of the argument can be convinced by the moral case.
THEY CANT. Because they don’t care about the moral case, they don’t care about thoughts and feelings other than their own. They care about MONEY, POWER and THEMSELVES. That’s it that is all they listen or care about. It’s the same here as it is in every other nation.
Independence for Scotland to rejoin the EU or not – is not won in a talking shop. Independence has NEVER been won by words it is won by action – it is won by boycotts, by marches by being such a nuance it isn’t worth being held on to by those in power – and yes I know often it is won by violence and no-one wants that.
But we have to accept that right now those in Power don’t care about Scotland other than the balance sheet this is actually the best time to gain independence because we don’t need to win hearts and minds in Westminster we just need to become more trouble than it’s worth to keep us.
Moral victories only matter if you think there is a world after this that rewards you for being pious. Unfortunately Scotland has a history of taking solace in moral victories and accepting our fate. I’m sick of it.
There is no fire no passion no drive from the top of the SNP any more they want to be see to be quietly determined but still deliver next to nothing on the reason they exist – independence. Having a convention or whatever doesn’t convince the people on the street to vote for you it just becomes another gathering of people talking about a future that you aren’t even trying to bring about.
Until today I was waiting to see what the plan was before making a decision – and right now my decision is that it’s time to try and leave Scotland because right now all we have is hope… and while hope is something you build rebellions on , it is simply not a plan.
To be clear I support Independence and I will vote for whatever method brings it about the fastest.
Shug
You’re hopelessly in denial.
Brexit isn’t going to cause 100k of job losses.
Who told you that? The SNbloodyP.
The EU economies are in bad shape and a lot worse than the UK.
You obviously believe all the lies they have put out.
Rev wrote: “. But any victory would have very little to do with the efforts of the SNP, and indeed would in large part have happened despite it.”
Correct! I despair when folk say Salmond got us here or Nicola got us here etc etc. NO THEY DID NOT! They may have been a part of it but it was us folks who put them in position and us folk who have been going door-to-door in pishing rain and howling gales, with every spare minute we have, that got us where we are.
__________
I’ve had enough of her (NS). In 5 years she’s went from having me prepared to die for her (and i’m not being over-dramatic,i’m 100% serious) to losing all faith in her. But not just that, i actually detest her.
I’ve not been fighting for 35-years for this greatest of opportunities with the greatest of pro-indy support for these self-serving bastards to fill their own pockets and continue having Scotland humiliated whilst driving their own wee private agendas. If i wanted that i’d support Patrick Harvey.
She has to go. She apparently failed as a lawyer so she needn’t think she’ll play at being Petrocelli with our futures. Away and build yer hoose and mixed bogs elsewhere. We need someone with a strong backbone not someone who’s repeatedly made to look weak by inept morons at No10. And if we are “Sovereign” then prove it. Either we are or we are not.
I’ll never stop fighting for Scotland’s right to self-determination but the current “leadership” has lost any respect i had for them. She has to go or a stronger indy-party has to be formed ASAP. If UKIP and all those twats can do it then so can we.
__________
Thanks for all your efforts and commitment Stu. Just glad to see you haven’t decided to jack-it. Enjoy your time off.
You are right about so many things but this time I wish you were wrong; unfortunately, with a sinking feeling, I suspect you have sussed the situation accurately. Duncan is approaching 71, I’ve already arrived there and I find myself in utter despair. In the meantime, I shall go on working in the Yes movement and try not to sink too low into the ‘slough of despond’.
Have a good holiday; if anyone deserves it it’s you. When you return in April, maybe we’ll have had more cause for optimism.
Just to add on how much the UK constitution is based on precedent, Nicola Sturgeon has now set the precedent that Scotland’s future can only be decided by agreement of the leader from another country.
2021 scottish parliament elections
always was
no majority scotland screwed for eternity
i feel deeply ashamed and betrayed and feel like we are now the laughing stock of the world. rev stu you where right all along we have just been shafted by a f******g bunch of cowards.signing off a very ashamed scotsman.
I feel so angry at and let down by NS and the SNP today.
As much as I’d love to disagree with your commentary I know deep in my heart that you are right. You have consistently been right about how things would play out and the passage of time has stood testament to that.
30 years I have held my SNP membership. Almost my entire adult life. Today I can honestly say that if I act in the next few hours or even days, I will no longer be a member of the SNP nor contribute financially to the party machine.
I am completely and utterly wounded. I think I need a wee lie doon.
Enjoy your holiday Stu.
In a way the FM reminds me of the German admiral at the Battle of the river Plate.
He would sooner scuttle his ship than go out with all guns blazing.
Yet very commendably he did not want so many young men to die on a forlorn hope.
Perhaps our FM realises that there is no way through the Yoon lines and she wants to spares us the distraught emotion of a second September the 19th.
so, do we ote for Greens and a new independent list party and get all of us YES troops getting this Independence Leviathan moving, as it appears the SNP/Scottish Government have no real plan?
Never was the phrase, ‘Lions led by donkeys’ more appropriate. Joined SNP in 1988. Membership now in the bin.
sorry, fourth word should be vote.
In 2015 I wrote a short story I never did anything with. It was narrated by an SNP Secretary of State for Scotland against the backdrop of a civil war, created because the SNP has become part of the UK establishment, and a new pro Indy party had emerged to challenge them. It was based a little on the history of Irish independence, and a lot on the fear it might be how independence happens and as a warning against it. I think I gave up on it after the Brexit vote as it felt less likely. It no longer does, and that’s troubling. There is a place for caution and gradualism, but also a time for them. Judging when it is or isn’t the time and place is a hard call, but Brexit really doesn’t lend itself to either.
I want indy but only through non violence. I took the indyref 2 sticker off my door over a year ago. I guessed that it wasn’t happening. I’ve still got the Yes sticker in my window though. I definitely understand where you are coming from. You have been doing a great job for such a long time. You deserve a break All the best. Thank you for all your hard work.
I can’t fault your criticism, galling as it is to be confronted with its precision. Nevertheless, 2020 is what she said. She is still sitting pretty with a mandate from the people for a referendum, a mandate from Parliament and now Royal Assent for holding a defining referendum on Scotland’s future. Has anyone else got all that? However, no matter how you slice it or dice it – 2020 is now the crunch year for the FM !
Enjoy your holiday, Stu, the Hell with it.
Ah well, that’s that then. What a day. Out of the EU, poor SNP leadership, direction and management exposed, independence frustrated, Wings going semi dark and to cap it all, British Nationalists exultant with their red, white and blue.
Buggeration.
Well, Duke of the SNP, no more marching up and and down unnecessary hills for me. Not until there’s been a clear out at least.
Good luck Stuart, enjoy the break and thanks for taking on what has transpired to be a thankless job. I still say it was you, the wee blue book and the effort of local YES people, more than any of the daft SNP news papers I delivered in 2013/14, that got us close to the winning post.
PS Take it as a compliment that “the Woke” in the SNP took down your Twitter account, they had to, your arguments exposed the weakness of their dangerous creed. Your clarion call was getting attention and traction and they didn’t like it.
Best wishes to you.
I never thought that Nicola Sturgeon was up for the job. I fear she is happiest taking part in “woke” photo opportunities with the leaders of the other parties outside Holywood. She always looks happier doing these than if she were (forced) to speak at a Yes rally.
I think she is a technocrat politician, while Alex Salmond is closer to the “romantic” (for want of a better word) leader that you see leading countries to independence. He has a flair about him from wide reading, a very quick mind, cunning. I was genuinely surprised he did not have a card up his sleeves for the final week of the indyref1 campaign, I was sure that he would have.
Germaine Greer always said she does not want women to be equal to men. She wants their lives to be better, not reduced to being the same as a male corporate wage slave. Likewise, Scotland needs to be more than just a smaller version of the UK. We need to bring back Alex Salmond, reveal the true story behind his court case, recapture the stirring spirit of the Declaration of Arbroath (which surely can be further built on, as the authors would have wanted) and aim to make Scotland a new country, not just “like the UK only in the EU”.
Yes is on 50% and who is going to lead the No campaign? Besides the BBC? A date needs to be set for April 2021, independence is more important than elections to a parliament which can be closed down anyway if the UK wants it.
Right, I’ve had a think about it, why don’t we get together a form another Independence party, a bit like what Farage did with the Brexit party.
Another big pro Indy party needs formed, I’d vote for it. SNP far too comfortable as the article says.
Ride the woke hate Wings and create your own stand alone party!
I can’t see this from your perspective, considering you have no better plan yourself, it just seems you’re throwing stones at something because you’re not getting your own way, even though your own way isn’t tangible, and doesn’t deliver anything any sooner, and has absolutely no backing.
the way I see this the SNP have stood clear on the fact that Scotland’s Independence will be won on a mandate of democratic vote, it hasn’t changed on that narrative from Salmond to Sturgeon, It will all be driven by the people of Scotland’s decisions, and as the people chose to stay with the UK and give the UK their power, it IS up to the UK to give us another go first as they have that power by the will of the people of Scotland. it might not be your view, but that IS the reality, some people have to live in reality rather than their pipe dreams and confirmation bias.
Whilst you blame the SNP for all your woes and not getting another referendum as soon as they say, which will not be their fault, where the “not being allowed” and “Westminster isn’t what’s best for us” is being forced more and more into the electorate… what have you decided to do? place blame where it is not deserved? place blame on something that specifically does not have the power by the choice of the Scottish electorate.
what happened to you? when did you start blaming the SNP for things that are obviously Westminster’s decisions?
mundell even trolling the FM
David Mundell MP
@DavidMundellDCT
So after the bluster and hype
@NicolaSturgeon finally concedes that there will NO independence referendum this year
Enjoy your rest Rev you’ve earned it. And thank you.
Hoped for better. Mug – me! Gutted. Membership self and wife ends Monday!
Stuey – I’m in tears here. I feel like someone’s stole my tattie scone, well two tattie scones really, you and indy.
Where do we go from here? 🙁
Ever since the 1978 World Cup, I have been convinced, that was as bad as it could get – the ultimate expression of the sheer Hell of being Scottish.
After listening to that shite from Wee Nipy this morning, I am now convinced, Ally MacLeod was a winner.
I do not know Ms Sturgeon, I have never met her, but, the biggest wanker of a boss I ever had was a relative of hers. Listening to her this morning was like listening to him – and even less convincing.
She has just cut the feet from an awful lot of pro-independence Scots.
STURGEON MUST GO.
What baffles me is the referendum bill being given Royal Ascent. But then the SNP not using it!
Does she not realise that if indy ref 2 doesn’t happen this year, then the games over. Out of the EU! Any protections we have will be destroyed. Holyrood is going to lose power not gain power. The Westminster power grab is underway.
We will need visas to go to anywhere, international driving licences, Blue fecking British passports, cars will cost us at least a £1000 more, we lose our E111 health cards, we can’t work in the EU without a permit. It’s a fecking omnishambles.
We will essentially be in lock down in the UK. It will become like a prison for most of us.
And the SNP want to talk to people politely?????
You are right STU it’s over. Time to think about that move to Eire.
Although for purely selfish reasons I would like the referendum as soon as possible (I live in Spain and Scotland rejoining the EU would make things easier), I honestly believe that a referendum after the next Holyrood election is a better option.
If there were a referendum that voted Yes before the Holyrood elections, I see a big risk in fewer pro-indy voters turning out to vote SNP/Green at Holyrood and thereby increasing the risk of a pro-union majority. There would then be nothing to stop them immediately having a referendum on rejoining the union or, given the Tories might lead any coalition, just cancelling the result with Westminster’s support.
What the hell is wrong with you all? Ya’ll being a bit dramatic and threatening to chuck all of your SNP memberships because of the little fish lady (easily deposed) tells you something you didn’t want to hear.
Get a grip, giving up now will be like a domino effect of crushed will, then you will never see your presumed ‘grand future out of the UK’.
@Fergus Denion, I believe it was when the SNP went from pushing for democracy and running the country admirably to being distracted/infiltrated by fringe issues and doing neither of the previous commendable things.
Stu has, since 2015 put forward many ideas to help gain if not indy then at least clarity. The SNP have sat on their hands and went full anti brexit. This failure has not passed under the radar
Pete@1037
I think it was a British Government report actually
I cant see fishing surviving the trade off to allow London money markets into Europe and I cant see farmers surviving the loss of EU grants and a 40% tariff.
Great big thank you for the quality of your work, your integrity and bravery.
Have a truly great break. You’ve more than earned it.
It was always going to be a WHEN, not an IF the SNP leadership (at all levels) would get knobbled.
I hope those in the movement in and out of the SNP have the ability to see this, leave Nicola where she is and move right round this issue.
Either oust her with an emergency meeting and vote of no confidence. And that runs the risk of electing another knobbled back up.
Or step out of the SNP and set up a single issue Indy Alliance. Forget about a Referendum, use the Holyrood Election and the GE as mandates. They can’t cancel those, and they would be legal.
There are enough high profile (local and national) elected members of SNP who could make this credible.
One thing is for certain – for those in the SNP who have gotten comfortable with their noses in the trough – you’re the New Labour. I’ve voted SNP all my fault life – unfortunately without dramatic changes, I doubt I ever will again.
I never left the Indy Movement – the SNP left the Indy Movement.
Who’s going to start up a Scexit Party?
Got a bit of a lump in my throat. I’m getting too old and impatient now and so disappointed at this Groundhog Day. That’s probably how they got rid of Alex, he has so much more fire in his belly and if he had still been leader we might have been there by now.
Have a good time out Stu. I salute what you have achieved up until now in the face of resistant Scots. Twitter won’t be the same without your contributions but then it has been deteriorating for quite some time.
I’m done, membership of 10 years over – direct debit cancelled. Direction of travel is not what I wanted
The psychological moment has arrived, the rift between gradualist and radical nationalism. Regroup and consolidate around a fresh strategy.
Enough of time wasting, devolution hand outs and Westminster rules.
I don’t disagree with the Rev However, as the old saying goes, It sometimes takes a 4×2 or a feather to get some folks attention. In this case, to get the DKs attention it will take the 4×2 they won’t believe the water will run out till nothing comes out of the tap then the light goes on and they sign up.
After my rant above, I realised I hadn’t mentioned your article at all Stuart.
You called it, you were right and I hope you (and Craig Murray) will be able to tell us what’s actually been going on in the SNP some day.
Anyway, have a good break and if at the end of it you decide you can’t go on with your blog – who could blame you.
Would just like to make something clear and ask fellow indy supporters to think about this.
To those out there saying that’s it, no more marching for me etc etc. Please reconsider! Remember, the marches are a big part of the indy movement and are run by genuine indy supporters just like us. They are absolutely nothing to do with the SNP and it’s the best way to publicly show the demand is still there AND GROWING. Only fools and progressives depend on “polls”.
If you want to show NS your utter disaproval of her spineless procrastination then may i suggest yous all cancel your SNP membership? Best physical statement you can make. And ignore the SNP apologists who’ll say but you’ll hit them where they need it most, financially, they desperately need that money blah blah blah. Then they should have thought of that before thinking about their salaries etc. Time they found some rich donors to fund their life-styles.
If we don’t send them a message then you can expect much much more of the same. And you don’t need a membership to vote for them either. But whatever yous do please keep up the fight, even if it’s just talking to folk. If we don’t continue fighting for Scotland who will.;)
I too am sceptical about the chances of a referendum this year, but surely the consistency of the yes vote and the overwhelming general election victories are testament to the success of the SNP, not some shortcoming? If Sturgeon were so terrible, wouldn’t public opinion have turned against independence?
On the contrary, she is very popular and some no-voters seem to be inching toward support for separation. The “actual consequences of Brexit happening for real” are indeed much more serious than the other things you list, with material consequences. The Tories might kill the NHS; the economy will probably deteriorate and Scotland will become yet further marginalised.
I think the financialisation and associated centralisation of the British state have rendered Westminster incapable of catering to the devolved nations. Inequality partly has a geographic dimension, one which will increasingly become manifest in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and other peripheralised parts of Britain. Let’s see how that affects British unity. The post-empire delusions of the Etonian elite will come back to haunt England.
And what else would you have done? The nasty party is anti-democratic and committed to subjugating Scotland as normal. In the face of such a menace, it’s difficult to imagine how anyone could have behaved differently other than to remain principled, consistent and progressive, like Sturgeon.
Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Peter Bell… Emergency huddle please…
Open question to everyone… isn’t there anybody who can advise Scotland on this Constitutional predicament? A UN reporter on Constitutional disputes, or a celebrated authority on the intricacies of Constitutional Law?
Maybe not Scottish, probably not Scottish, but a retired EU or UN Judge, just “somebody” with no dog in the race but a wealth of experience and influence. Who did the Chagos islanders approach for their advice?
I don’t travel the world rubbing shoulders with high flyers. I don’t know where to find these rare beasts. I don’t even know where to find a good lawyer, nevermind a high flyer. But surely, other countries who exist by their Constitutions must be able to advise Scotland on how we make our sovereign Constitution count? It’s not as if we’re making it up, the Declaration of Arbroath is not a work of fiction, and the Claim of Right is hardly made up either…. But Westminster serves up the Scotland Act, and it’s adopted as the fucking gospel. ITS THE CONSTITUTION OF A DEVOLVED ASSEMBLY, NOT A NATION.
We needed a Ho Chi Minh, we got a Scotmid assistant branch Manager.
it’s time to do something else for a bit and see where we are in April.
fine. why not open up this blog to other contributors?
Can’t disagree with a single thing you wrote there, except for one. I DO want a new party to vote for next year, one that is unashamedly pro Indy and pro women. I am coming to the view that I should abstain on constituency vote and only vote on list if I had a decent party to vote for. Please think about helping make that happen even if you don’t start the party yourself.
Well said Stu, enjoy your break, we aint going away, btw dont think anything will happen in April it will probably be the Autumn Conference She gets her jotters.
I didnt listen,I so wanted to believe in NS,time to get her to fuck. If the SNP have no one with balls to tell her to GTF then a new vehicle is needed.
I honestly could cry.
@Breeks
If that were possible would it not already have been done already? While the SNP do obviously support indy, I believe they are attempting to take the most practical, legal approach possible, because NS has a point when she says she wants Scotland to be internationally, legally recognised for seperation – if you don’t have the recognition, then you don’t really have a country that will last long and who would invest in a pariah state?
I mean, you wouldn’t want another Catalonia on your hands would you, and if you did, then maybe you don’t deserve independence through sheer lack of respect for democracy and the rule of law, not to mention giving EVERY Scot the fair chance of being able to come to their own decisions, in their own time, to vote indy when the time comes legally and fairly, despite your impatience?
SNP’s new name TRADITORES*
*those who betray their own to the ruling authority.
Have a well earned and deserved break Stu.
Can I suggest you take a wee sabbatical tour around Scandinavia. Get out and about. Talk to people. How their politics and country works. Perhaps even write your next WBB there. I’d chip in for that.
After the Brexit Bourach it would be like having a hot shower.
Then get back in the saddle. We’re going to need you.
How much of the active support for the SNP in Holyrood elections depends on the SNP being the credible champion of independence? Suppose a lot of this support stays at home in 2021 — and that meanwhile the unionist parties game the electoral system by (covertly, of course) creating a ‘cross-party party’ called the Scottish Unionist Party. It’s not impossible that the result would be an end to SNP government in Scotland. That really would be the end of independence, the SNP —- even Holyrood devolution, wouldn’t it? Immortal triumph for Boris Johnson…….
Nicola Sturgeon;
“To achieve independence, a referendum, whenever it happens – whether it is this year as I want, or after the next Scottish election – must be legal and legitimate. That is a simple fact.”
An absolutely fucking atrocious white flag of a speech. That is a massive ‘Fuck you’ to Scotland.
Not only do we need a new leader, we probably need a new party.
Perhaps I’m wrong.
Perhaps someone with unshakable faith in Nicola Sturgeon can tell me we aren’t going backwards in our goal to independence.
Perhaps they can explain why this is the cunning secret plan that we’ve all been waiting 3 years for.
Perhaps we shouldn’t march down the hill again.
Perhaps…
We’ve all been herded as bonny as you like into a false sense of what we thought Scotland could achieve, people marching always upbeat now I think it’s been stopped in its tracks, has it all been pre planned, still no further on we don’t get any Information from the government, they used to call the SNP the Tartan Tories it makes you wonder.
It would seem we are Catalonia, having to beg for England’s approval to ask for our independence.
Looks like the dream may well be over, now to get the licence fee scrapped so I can watch TV without having to fund the government channel. Although I fear the government may still use my tax to fund it, they need it to feed the plebs with comforting stories of their imperial power.
Most Constitutonal lawyers seem to agree that a court case on the validity of unilateraly calling a referendum (ignoring entirely for the moment the difficulty of actually carrying one out without the support of Councils) would most likely go against the SNP, or whoever took the case to court. In fact, the link published by WoS the other week argued that. That’s not to say that the case should not be tested in court, and should have been tested earlier.
Without that there is no legal path to independence. No party in Westminster was ever going to grant an S30 to the SNP, regardless of what the SNP offered in exchange, because they simply cannot financially afford to let Scotland depart the Union.
And even if they did grant an S30, the divide in Scotland has barely changed since 2014, and it’s just as likely we would lose again – sadly. Maybe having to wait a few more years until the older age group who overwhelmingly voted No in 2014 are departed is the best thing for the chances of independence.
That said, we finally got a poll yesterday which showed, by the slimmest margin, a majority for Yes. It will be interesting to see if that continues or not. Of course, we may all be living in a economically shitty isolated wasteland, eating US hormone infested beef and paying three times as much for our drugs by then, with an impotent party in Scotland and a continuing Tory party in Westminster ignoring everyone who doesn’t agree with it.
I’m really not sure where we go from here to be honest. Sturgeon et al may not be the people to lead the SNP into the future, but at the end of the day, she is still, according to polls, the most trusted politician in Scotland, even amongst non-SNP voters. And even if someone else took over, it wouldn’t fundamentally change the facts of the current situation. So long as England holds 80% of the votes, and a whiphand over the right of Scotland to even consider independence, the only path forward has to be a legal one, and if that fails then we’re basically back to pre-2014.
The article highlights all the events which were supposedly going to increase support for independence, but didn’t. If support has not significantly increased what is the point in holding a referendum? So we can lose again? Or do we trust in a gut feeling (devoid of evidence) that we would win? Lose again and we really can forget about independence happening for a ‘generation’.
Sobering reading Stu, and the truth shines through. The SNP have taken a wrong turning, highlighted by their authoritarian stance on GRA reform, their focus on Brexit and lack of fire over independence. Don’t give up the Wings Party idea, it’s sorely needed. Enjoy your break.
I have not read your rant yet, as I am certain that is what it will be. That has been your modus operandi for some months and I now find it tedious. After some years we appear to be just about breaking even in favour of independence. That indicates to me that the people in this country are not yet ready or hungry enough. I’m prepared to wait till they are instead of throwing it all away.
In my opinion people are not hurting enough to really, really want independence, mainly because the SNP have been too successful in mitigating Westminster’s attacks up here. I’m sure your constant sniping will be encouraging people in there droves to – do what? Lose faith? Lose hope?
I’m of an age that I can still afford our government more time to bring it about, if they can. I see independence as being more for my grandchildren than for me anyway, a pensioner who has had a pretty good life and has come to be an independence supporter late in the day, courtesy of one Alec Salmond, who I’m certain still has a role to play.
So yes, today’s speech didn’t provide the fire and brimstone that some folks wanted neither did it indicate abject surrender. Be more patient, be more optimistic, it is coming.
I’m away from this site now. Pile in guys, gals and the usual suspects.
Discussion on this website had led you to believe Nicola Sturgeon would announce today a battle cry
That was never her intention
Nowhere else was there so much expectation , just here on WOS ?
Why is that ?
Who led you to this point ?
As if Scottish independence can now just be forgotten
Is that you beaten now ? Because Nicola Sturgeon didn’t do a braveheart
Get real , some people may want to have a holiday I will too , soon, but get this straight
NOTHING absolutely NOTHING has happened to reduce the progress towards Scottish independence
And be clear about this too
If Nicola Sturgeon had announced a battle cry for action today it would not have progressed Scottish independence one bit
The only thing that will progress us to Scottish independence is a Scottish independence referendum
And Nicola Sturgeon has said that will happen this year 2020
Getting Scottish independence is never going to happen with everyone rushing out onto the streets and shouting it to the moon
Calculated planned action is the way to beat an enemy in politics
Bit by bit the British nationalists are losing their grip on Scotland more is to come
People continually predicting this won’t happen , that won’t happen bla bla bla what’s their game ?
Glasss ball predictions ?
This is the highest point in known voting intentions
YES the highest point in terms of people saying they will votes for independence
The highest it’s ever been
And dramatically you all want to go home and cry ?
Who’s made you like that ?
It’s not realistic to give up when you are in the strongest position you have ever been in
AND YOU KNOW IT
Hey loyalty to WOS ? I understand it
What a great place to hear all differing points of view and discuss
But this is glum , unnecessarily and because of what. . ? Their predictions
So WOS predicted Nicola Sturgeon would have to issue a battle cry today and if she didn’t you are all instructed it’s time to give up and go home
She never ever said today was going to be a battle cry so you have all reacted to someone else’s prediction on what she ought to say
Gee , talk about weak giver uppers
I’m pretty sure the principles of the Declaration of Arbroath should also apply to our political leaders.
I think you’ve been living in England to long.
I agree it’s time for a change of leadership. Sturgeon is trapped inside the mind of a feart solicitor and frankly looks uncomfortable navigating Scotland on this difficult path.
Other leaders, with a different mindset, would relish this situation and be invigorated by it. She looks tired, scared and defeated. How long will she cling on?
As a long time cynic of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon since 2017 (when I gave up my membership), I still feel sick to the stomach today. My heart hoped that my head was wrong.
I appeal for the YES movement to keep going but I also appeal for radical figures to get together to kick-start a new party – that is: Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Tommy Sheridan and of course RevStu.
Independence will never be achieved with the SNP as the political arm – that much is now certain. We can travel along on a wing and a prayer for years to come hoping for radical change from within the party. It’s never going to happen, even with a change of leadership. The SNP have proven themselves to be the party of devolution (and one without a backbone that can’t even keep our devolved powers intact).
This new party can be built from the ground up. And it can be done – there is already 50% of the population that want independence, there is already a strong YES movement.
We need to build a party entirely focused on the caused on independence – nothing less.
RevStu enjoy your break. Come back refreshed. Today is not a good day but tomorrow is a new dawn.
I always wondered what hogwash looked like. Now I know – its beige, just pure unadulterated fence-sitting beige!
Well that’s it. A milestone has passed without a whimper. The following is a transcript of my email today cancelling the SNP memberships and subscriptions of myself and my wife. The same action has been taken by 3 other family members. We need an alternative to this moribund SNP and fast or our aspirations will be dead in the ditch intended for Boris Johnson.
“This email constitutes formal notification of the cancellation of our membership of the Scottish National Party. Our monthly subscriptions have also been terminated with immediate effect. Other members of our family will confirm similar action.
For some time we have been concerned that the SNP have grown comfortable in their role as the prominent party in a devolved Scottish Assembly and have lost sight of the ultimate goal of independence. Over recent years there has been a failure to effectively call out the Westminster government for the propaganda and lies directed against our nation. There have been many brave words, in particular those of Ian Blackford in the House of Commons, which have given us hope but which have ultimately proved futile. Either these have knowingly been empty statements or the hierarchy at the SNP have refused to back them up. There have also been several failures to support the position of prominent independence supporters in favour of paying lip service to the political correctness of the day. The treatment of Grousebeater was appalling and there have been others.
We believe that your failure to grasp the nettle in recent years has set back the cause of independence for a substantial time, possibly decades. With the passing of the deadline for the forced withdrawal of Scotland from the European Union against the overwhelming wishes of Scots, and your failure to act decisively in any shape or form to counteract this, the Rubicon has been crossed. My family will await the rise of a more committed vehicle for independence before we again cast our vote. We will not be alone.”
Scunnered.
Long life supporting indy.
Was at the launch of Yes – Fountain Bridge, full of hope and ambition. Worked hard through to vote. Father died during campaign grieved his death, he missed seeing Scotland independent.
Vote comes, Grieved again next day.
6 years after that day – we get ‘your call is important to us, please hold’ from FM.
We are at a crossroads, and FM is taking us round and round in circles, promising that if we are good little indy bots we will get pudding with our dinner, sometime soon, honest, but only if you give me another mandate to ignore.
Raging.
I was hoping that all the foutering about was a smoke screen to keep WM guessing and the real plan would be announced today for maximum effect. Give hope to the EU citizens who would vote Yes this time to stay in the EU, but no. Just waffle. EU citizen, hard luck, no decision before 2021 or 2046. We did say nice things to you though.
Now wishing I had emigrated in the 90’s, both of my sons are thinking of doing the same now. Can’t blame them.
Scunnered and raging.
For the sake of my health I should dis-engage and ignore the whole indy thing now. Might not even vote come the next election. Why bother.
I think we need to take a few minutes to consider the bigger picture before jumping to any conclusions. The delays are frustrating but there is some method to the madness.
Firstly domestic law. A Section 30 order only confirms that the UK government would accept the outcome of a referendum. There is nothing in the Scotland Act to prevent the Scottish Government form calling one.
International law does not demand that independence can only happen if the domestic law of the larger body of which the country seeking independence is part allows it. That was the position of the ICJ and the British Government in the 2010 Kossovo case. IN case I am not clear, by international law route I mean UDI>
In practice Independence under the international law route, (independence which is recognised by other countries even though the larger parent country does not) requires the country seeking independence to demonstrate that (i) independence is the will of the majority and (ii) it has exhausted attempts to secure independence bi-laterally with the parent country. As of today’s date we have done neither of those things. That the SNP won the election is undisputed but whether independence is the settled will of a majority has not been demonstrated.
The greatest risk in calling a referendum without Westminster agreement is that Unionists would boycott it. A boycott makes it much harder to prove to the international community that is the will of the majority. Taking Catalonia as an example, 90% voted yes but that was on a 43% turn out. Like it or not, that is not convincing.
So how does Scotland demonstrate the will of a majority? The answer is either (a) turning the 2021 Scottish parliament election into a plebiscite election on independence or (b) holding the independence referendum without Westminster consent on the same day as the Scottish Parliament election in 2021. If voters receive both papers at the same time they may still choose not to vote or spoil their papers. However the spoiled ballot papers still counts in terms of turnout.
In summary, yes, the continued delay in frustrating. Yes, the SNP should be doing a better job of standing up to the Tories unilateral re-writing of the constitution. Yes, Sturgeon isn’t doing a great job of explaining her strategy albeit she can’t exactly reveal all at this point. However, unless we have the means and ability to start an immediate uprising we should be thinking about the independence under the international law route which still requires a bit of work during which time Brexit and Bojo will continue to offend and marginalise many of the people who voted no in 2014. I would not throw the toys out the plan just yet.
If none of those major events sent support soaring above 50% the logical and obvious conclusion is that the majority of the people of Scotland do not actually want independence, at least right now. There’s no point having a referendum until there’s a certain majority and it would be absurd to try and force independence when there isn’t. If the job is doable at all then it will only be done by the kind of patient politicians we have trying to build a consensus. Another referendum with the wrong outcome and we might as well forget it.
Terence,
I think you will find that Nicola Sturgeon has said Scotland’s future will be determined by Westminster.
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Wings loyalists, I disagree. Sturgeon said it in her speech – the main problem is that, for whatever reason, we have not built clear majority support for independence. Yes we have democratic mandates and yes the latest opinion poll shows a very small majority for independence, but the reality is that Scotland is pretty well split down the middle on the independence issue. If we can increase support to say the high 50s in percentage terms then irrespective of margins of error, we could say with confidence that a majority of people want independence. That is were we need to get to. Even Boris Johnson would struggle to resist a referendum in those circumstances, not because he would be legally required to grant one, but because it would be politically untenable to deny one. He would come under intense international pressure if he continued to obstruct the democratic will of the Scottish people and his trade deals would be at risk. It is politics that will win this – not court action.
This site used to do a great job of persuading people of the merits of independence. I think it highly likely that the Wee Blue Book together with the many great articles forensically picking the unionists’ position to bits were major contributors to the increase in support that was achieved during the campaign in 2014. But I fear that the recent trend of undermining the only party that has any realistic chance of delivering independence is doing the movement serious harm. I don’t agree with everything the SNP stands for and I share the concerns of many about the direction the party has taken on some social issues. But politics is about persuasion and finding common ground. We will not persuade people to back independence by stabbing each other in the back when the going gets tough. (That is such a Scottish thing to do.)
I fully expect to get abused for expressing these views – that is the Wings way these days. But could I just ask people to think – will being abusive increase or decrease support for independence? Will the undecided voter be persuaded to come down on our side if he or she sees that independence supporters cannot tolerate dissent?
Finally, (you will be glad to hear) I often read about the sovereignty of the Scottish people on this site. I completely accept and believe in that sovereignty. But remember, at the last time of asking, the sovereign will of the Scottish people was to remain in the UK. Furthermore, the most recent polling evidence suggests that a majority do not want a referendum this year. Do we only support sovereignty when the people agree with us? I hope the answer to that is “No – we support it in all circumstances.” If that is the case, the only option is to do what Sturgeon said – stay the course and build the case. It’s a bit dull and may not give immediate results, but it is the only way.
So it was more platitudes. Unlike many, I’m not “out”, cancelling anything, tearing up anything. All we can do know is wait for events, again. You, Rev, reckon somewhere around April.
OK let’s wait.
This is an appalling day. EU gone. FM chicken. Wings shut for a while.
I think we all need a break to regroup and reconsider. We are 51/49 ahead. That’s not gonna change in 2 months.
Even James Kelly (Scot Goes Pop)calls this a “major strategic error” but here we go with the SNP trolls (that’s what you are now) wailing about how “people aren’t ready for indyref2” & we should all trust the “leader”.
They never will be “ready” because its not in Sturgeon or Murrells personal interests for indyref2 to EVER happen.
We don’t need LBJ saying “No” because the current SNP leadership/management will find a way to kick the indyref2 can down the road even if he said yes. Their salaries depend on it.
Just what we need another convention talking shop as all our rights are removed.
Sorry for the number of posts today but I’m fucking angry!
@TD
My own views aside, I agree that people should be more content and stick to the wider of image of Scotland’s cause. If wanting independence is consistent, who knows how long it would take but it will come, given the support remains at maximum.
To answer your question, no, being abusive to the undecided will not help the cause. Shouting at somebody for not sharing their (sometimes extrem views) will not attract more support. That’s when the labels come flying out, from both sides.
Tomb Tabard sturgeon absolute f*****g coward end of.
Terrence Callachan @11.39pm.
You miss the point entirely – today needed to be a big bloody massive battle cry – today is the day we’re ripped out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish people. If not now then bloody when. Take the scales of your eyes man.
Today was the death knell on the SNP taking us to independence if you can’t see that then I despair.
I just had an awful feeling – the FM used the phrase “wildcat referendum” in her speech as did Pete Wishart a while ago.
I used the term in a post here, ages ago – BUT I PUT QUOTATION marks around it. I hope it was not my innovation.
This is one case I would hate to be first – but it shows the responsibility of all who post in a well-read public forum. Hopefully not – just something picked up unconsciously from the miasma of the indy hive mind.
I was thinking of WILDCAT STRIKES and the kind of LABOUR POWER that existed in the 1970s – it worked, really worked. Of course, the tories put an end to all that by legislation and by moving all the jobs to the east.
Striking – once a brilliant tactic – is ABSOLUTELY DUMB if they want to SHUTDOWN the factory; at least Jimmy Reid worked it out – the UCS “work in” his innovation.
The point I had been trying to make was – a “wildcat referendum” is dumb – the SO-CALLED “wildcat referendum” needs to be one backed and run by an impartial international body, with the UN and the americans, the EU – all on board. I had been hoping the speech today would be a call to do exactly this – have a referendum, in the summer, run under full-bore “international law” and protected by the influence of major big hitters – the yanks primarily. And to -dare- ukgov to try and stop it, become a “pariah state”. If you check google maps you will see the US consulate on regent terrace, only a short walk from holyrood – why not invite yourself in for a lunchtime chat.
I think that would be a viable ramping up of the pressure, and all totally “legal”; the FM speech did not have much in it, I think; what was it – keep asking for permission/S30, ask the lawyers to look at it?
The ancient celts had a tradition whereby, if someone cheated you, you went and sat outside their house to publicly shame them; there was this tradition of “honour” among our ancestors – but the ukgov, the tories – have no shame and are nothing more than an organised gang of psychopaths; a psychopath does not have the mental “wiring” to feel shame.
The desperation of people is clear – and there’s been some flighty suggestions, both timid and jumping the gun; let’s see, recently we have had :
– a referendum about having a referendum (oh please)
– let them have the oil so we can get away easily (why should they barter with something they already consider theirs / why bribe a thief anyway?)
– some lawyer bullshit
– “the ambassador” had a novel one; just declare it, then have a “confirmatory” referendum after … hmm … this is a bit like the travellers tactics of – buy a field with no planning permission, move in over the weekend, get the concrete down, sit it out and then apply for planning permission hoping the local council will shite it … except the “pikeys” are brazen and tough and fight like an army, up against – what – some local tory “gammon” who neither have the money to sue, or send the bailiffs in …
then there’s the calls for civil disobedience. I am not against this morally, and there is a lot you can do, but while there’s a lot of smart things, there are also a lot of dumb things.
“civil disobedience” has a tendency to flip quickly into rioting and repressive measures (- the other side can easily provoke such). I have been watching some “gilet jaune” stuff on youtube – that is not reported much, but it still goes strong – currently the firemen are streetfighting the riot cops – and mostly kicking the shit out of them; it looks great, but hard to see where it’s going.
and that was that.
Oh, forget any thought about a Scottish equivalent of the Brexit party, people.
That was successful because it was clearly going to have a direct effect on who got power in a GE.
Even if everybody in Scotland voted for a Scexit Party,
it would only have influence if it held the balance of power after a GE.
Sound familiar?
As Fergus Denoon says at 10.52
The 2014 referendum result was the majority of Scots confirming that Westminster has the power.
Personally, I’d love the SNP to start using Holyrood as a serious political irritant by making feckyou decisions like setting up drugrooms.
But that would require a sort of political leadership they clearly don’t have.
Like several others of a certain age, I suspect my chances of living in an independent Scotland have evaporated like breath on a window.
And I can’t regenerate.
I can’t disagree with any part of this article.
I would like to believe the SNP could reform itself and depose the Sturgeon cabal, but it’s a forlorn hope at best given the get-with-the-program utterances of its MPs, MSPs, and prominent apparatchiks, who all seem to be singing from the same incredulous hymnal this morning.
We need another party; an authentic party of independence. That’s the bottom line. Best one might hope for would be a fracturing of the SNP from which the core of a new party could be constructed. There is no other choice if the SNP will not reform itself. I fear it is too corrupt to do so. That became crystal clear when the leadership had the brass neck to carpetbag rodent Alyn Smith into his new sinecure in the Commons.
We need to start anew. I see no alternative.
*Thinking about it, let me take back what I said in the heat of the moment about the new MP for Stirling being a rodent – it was unfair and inaccurate. For there are some things you just can’t get a rat to do.
Sitting in the tea-room at Conference in Perth in the 80’s on the day before Salmond’s elevation as leader, I was forced to wonder what the the fuck I was doing there, surrounded as I was by a bunch of petit bourgeois shop keepers, mediocre careerists and at least one rat-catcher, all of a most parochial and unimaginative stripe. I voted for Salmond, of course, and the Party truly underwent transformation and rejuvenation in the following period, with the electoral results to prove it.
It was with the recent acceptance of the Growth Commission Report, though, that I was finally forced to acknowledge that Salmond’s legacy had finally been usurped and squandered and that mediocrity in all its safe, ugly forms had been reinstated as the collective ambition of that once vibrant and ambitious Party for Scottish Independence.
That said: the eighty-thousand who braved the pissing rain in Glasgow three weeks ago didn’t look to me as if they were about to lose their collective vibrancy or ambition any time soon.
Hard not to laugh, while the Tories have replaced ditherer May with Boris, their Salmond, the SNP have replaced Salmond with Sturgeon who now makes May look decisive
When the dust settles after todays excitement, I think Scotland will recognise that it’s at a crossroads but it needs either to be pushed or led down a certain direction.
My own feeling is the the SNP is finished as a political force in Scotland. Certainly, Sturgeons days are numbered but there’s no discernable potential leader within the SNP to replace her. There are no firebrands, nobody with any vision or creativity anywhere. It just seems to be full of wishy washy, timid ‘bleh’ type people. There’s no dynamism about it.
So, Scotland needs a new independence driven party but again, who can lead one?
I see the names of the usual suspects being bandied about, Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Tommy Sheridan and all this. The problem there is that they all have this vision of Scotland being some kind of Socialist utopia and I gotta tell ya, this is the 21st Century, that’s not going to happen.
They’ll have lost before they’ve even begun and it’s a shame because otherwise, I think Tommy Sheridan is easily the best leader and orator in Scotland today.
The Rev’s out because all he’d get all day, every day is ‘You don’t even live in Scotland’ and frankly, without even knowing the guy apart from here, I don’t think he’d tolerate that kind of nonsense and wouldn’t need the hassle.
So IF a new independence party is created, then the leader is going to be someone that we’re not even aware of yet.
But again, this is only how I see things just now. It might all change tonight when you’re watching telly and you’ll get ‘We interrupt this program to bring you this news flash’ and up pops Sturgeon with ‘Haha!! Gotcha!! It’s 11.01pm and we’ve gone ahead with UDI!!’
But I don’t think that’s likely.
So, a new leader then……..
TD at 11;47
Where to start…
“we have not built clear majority support for independence”
The opportunity to do so in the face of a Tory Brexit has been squandered, not by Yes, but by the SNP under the stewardship of NS.
“Even Boris Johnson would struggle to resist a referendum in those circumstances, not because he would be legally required to grant one, but because it would be politically untenable to deny one. He would come under intense international pressure”
Delusional! UK refusing in face of UN to hand back the Chagos Islands. Net result? SFA! Spain uses paramilitary police to put down democracy in Catalonia. Net result? SFA! Troops occupying the streets of NI for three decades and did the Blue Helmets get sent in to keep the two sides apart and ensure peace and respect for human rights on both sides? Aye right!
Put your faith in the international community and you’ll be sorely disappointed.
Today was time for NS to either shit or get off the pot. She’s had her Corbyn moment. Time to go.
I think we should ask A.S. To come back and become the leader again forget about their court case against him do not play their game of trying to disgrace him with charges against him by people who cannot be named it is a fit up ,.plain and simple a and A.S. Private life has nothing to do with his passion for Scotland’s freedom they are out to silence him because they know he is the real threat to their union so please Alec,. will ye no come back again ???
Stu you forgot “kicked it right over the roof of the stand at Hampden.”
I am at a total loss, confused with many things written on here and listening to bloggers on You Tube ( Indy Car) etc.
I expected (as already posted) a Lion this morning, fuck knows what turned up?
Indy may still happen this year??, I still have “although ever decreasing faith” it will. If you are correct, Indy is gone for good.(Hell mend the fearties)
I would encourage you to keep going with the site after a WELL DESERVED break, its the only place that makes sense!! Give them until your next fund raiser then you will know where we “The Country” stand.
Its been a blast following WoS, all good punters and some bell-ends, but all in all, a great laugh.
80 odd years?
Farage started UKIP 20 odd years ago with the sole intention of the UK leaving the EU, although I despise everything the man stands for, its “Job Done” for him.
Mr Salmond rightly gets mentioned as coming back as leader, I fear he will get the “Not Proven” which will hang round his neck, to simply stop him from getting involved in politics again, which is what the establishment desire.
Maybe the SNP should produce and empty SNP liveried can, which can be kicked down the road when we are feeling let down, I feel it would need a large piece of elastic attached to it.
To finish, although we will never have as dire a situation as the Palestinians, the contempt we have been shown from Westminster for centuries, Scotland should be twinned with Palestine.
Nice One.
Have not posted in ages.
So disappointed.
I honestly don’t believe holyrood will exist in 2021.
Why else has the Scottish Office been so greatly expanded?
Scotland is a canny country and the gradualist approach is the way to win hearts and minds. Chip away at unionist certainties. Change is difficult particularly for older folk as shown in the most recent YouGov poll and for those comfortably off.
Once again the BBC and no doubt the Unionist media quote Scotland In Union as well as the Tories to oppose holding a referendum but never quote a pro Indy group such as Business for Scotland.
As George Foulkes put it “but they are doing it deliberately”.
Something about pigs standing on two legs holding whips?
Same as it ever was. I couldn’t even listen to it.
Scotland a desert.
See ya.
Wish you hadn’t been right, but here we are. Thank you for all you’ve done. Have a good rest, you deserve one.
This is a day of massive Constitutional change.
Are you really going to walkaway from Independence and any possibility of achieving the dream.
There is still a large percentage of Scotland to be convinced about the way forward being one of Independence. There are 5 older people in my family who voted to leave and who voted to stay in the UK. They are resolute in their views and have scarcely moved one iota despite my efforts – thankfully all my younger relatives are pro-Indy.
Keep people ignorant and you can control them.
Most of us posting on this website are miles ahead of the ordinary person in our knowledge of what has been done to Scotland and where we stand in the great scheme of things but a huge number of people are really ignorant of the constitutional facts; our birthright, the Declaration of Arbroath, the Claim of Right and much much more.
If they really knew that they had a choice, that they are not citizens of Britain but sovereign Scots – that the UK is actually a Union of TWO KINGDOMS not the much vaunted union of four nations then maybe they would be more upset today.
Nicola is First Minister of Scotland – maybe it is a mistake that the FM is also the leader of the SNP – but she has to act for everyone.
Don’t get me wrong – I’m gutted; I’ve been on many of the marches, I’ve traipsed the streets in summer, winter, rain, hail, snow, pitch darkness and more, I’ve been at the polling stations at 6.00am and 10.pm, I’ve been at the Count, I’ve driven people to vote and I am sitting here crying.
Turn your anger and disgust on the WM government denying our democracy; lobby them, write to the newspapers, take our demonstrations to London and if you think you can do a better job then stand up and be counted.
Put your money where your mouth is.
Take WM to Court, write to Brussels, organise demonstrations – but get off your arses and stop moaning.
It is a sad day for all Scots today – I would like to thank Stu for all his hard work and for being a beacon of light during the 2014 ref – I really cannot stress how great it was to turn to Wings at that time.
So where now? We cannot just give up – giving in to the british establishment is just not an option, for me anyway.
Going for UDI or similar will not have the backing of enough ordinary working people – but asking for permission from Westminster for the ‘right’ to have an other IndiRef has got to be questioned and fought against, as the people would back this, in my view.
And so this is what I will be working towards from now on at any level I can – We cannot just give in!
My Dad, who is long passed, used to say that “the meek shall inherit the earth” is a mistranslation of the “the weak will eat shit”.
It’s difficult to believe he was wrong.
So the SNP LOST the battle to have a second EU Ref for the UKnotOK.
They also LOST the battle to keep the UKnotOK in the EU.
They also lost the battle for ” Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against it’s will” a La Blackford in HOC …on repeat.
And now seem to be conceding that they have lost the battle to hold an Indy Ref in 2020….I say battle…but believe they brought little fight to the battlefield.
So they have spent three years plus fighting for the UK and one month into January 2020 and they have given up hope for Scotland holding a Indy Ref this year.
However many are saying …..she has a plan….be patient….she was right to NOT strike while the iron was hot…best wait till the iron cools down….then see if Boris changes his mind in 2021….assuming of course that the SNP DO win a majority in 2021….AND that Boris will back down in 2021 if they do…if NOT then what ?…well then they, the SNP, will find themselves stuck on the WE HAVE A MANDATE roundabout…..and seems to be the SNP happy to stay spinning while the rest of us just want them to GET OFF and DO something….talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words…so I do hope Mr Blackford does not embarrass us anymore with his empty rhetoric in the HOC……sick of it.
Still we have ALL of those marches to go on this year…for what…another MANDATE….how many mandates does it take to change a light bulb….well an endless amount it appears….
Well I felt sheeite today and now feel even sheeiter ….seems to be the soldiers…us…want to take the fight to the other side WM…but once again those in charge,SNP, have other ideas and would prefer to hold off and see if the other side just surrender…Hmm
I’ve warned for YEARS that under Sturgeon the SNP have become colonial administrators.
Is there any more fitting description of a colonial administrator than someone who believes they need Imperial consent before the people of Scotland can exercise self-determination, who won’t act unless the British Empire approves it first?
Who’s the troll noo, eh? I was right all along.
Those who spent years slagging me for warning youse: Get it right up you! Eat humble pie time, suckers!
Now, I’ve got that off my chest: I’m sorry that I was right. I would rather have been wrong.
We need a leadership to exercise Scotland’s sovereignty, as Breeks and I and others have been saying for years too.
Indyref can happen AFTER we declare a parliament exercising sovereignty.
Don’t lose heart troops. Better you know where we are, lick your wounds and take up the battle once again once your chin is up again.
I fully concur with every word you have written Stu! After years of battles of wits with unionists, it turns out many of us are the same if not worse. At 60 years of age, I don’t foresee independence now in my lifetime. She has betrayed us all!
You have to admit Nigel Farage was more successful with zero MP’s than Nicola Sturgeon was with 56.
Thanks for a great post, Rev. At 51% for YES without a campaign, I am sure we could win a 2020 referendum. Take a break but please keep writing. Your posts “illuminate the terrain in which we are currently deployed”.
The SNP sought to save Scotland from that fate NOT by winning Scots the right to make the decision for themselves via independence, but by instead focusing for three and a half years on overturning the clear democratic choice of England and Wales – a strategy both morally questionable and which never had a credible hope of success.
So true and that speech this morning is three and half years too late. All this promised activity should have been undertaken during that time period. In addition, does the FM not realise that section 38(1) is going to put Scotland into Catalonia’s situation?
If it weren’t for the action of the rebellious few the peoples of Europe would have no political voice at all.
Scottish democracy is imperfect, systemically corrupted by reason of the nation’s continued subordination, as much a psychological, cultural problem as political.
We should not be surprised that our politicians, our professional lawmakers are lacking in the requisite ‘backbone’.
A shiver ran through the ranks of Scottish members looking for a spine to run up…..
Old Scottish Proverb….or at least it ought to be.
Nevertheless, a Scottish Spring is still possible.
Totally gutted, Nicola showed she has no guts, no fight, and no clue how to enable Scotland to regain its Independence.
We need better, we need once again a leader with passion and conviction. I thought Nicola would lead us to Independence, but sadly I don’t think she is the one.
Sturgeon cautioned against “shortcuts and clever wheezes” to try and gain independence.
I suppose she thinks galvanizing the people is a clever wheeze. Galvanizing the people with stirring rhetoric and practical action works. Give the people a lead and they follow. By contrast, try and dampen others’ ardour and sense of injustice with your safety-first mindset and people inevitably stand down.
Sturgeon’s grasp of psychology is extremely naive. She doesn’t want to deliver stirring rhetoric, no doubt because her woke friends wouldn’t approve.
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you will always get what you’ve always got…
“Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result…”
If the status quo/defeat isn’t an option then it might be time to dig out Plan B (or create a plan B) because Plan A seems to be stuck in a rut (or dead in a ditch).
I suspect there is no strategy, no plan beyond holding onto electoral office and Holyrood power.
A freedom movement, distinct from party politics, might take time to build but right now time doesn’t seem to be in short supply. Is that the only answer that’s left?
If you need a break Stu, go on and take one, you’ve earned it I say.
As for Sturgeon, she needs to come out today, or very soon, with something inspiring, something new, no more mandates, or many folk will be disappointed in her.
There’s now nothing stopping the SNP from sending out envoys around the globe and the EU to test the waters on their reaction if Sturgeon does call a indyref this year.
As the SNP must surely know that international recognition of Scottish independence is way more important than the domestic one at Westminster. We don’t need Westminster’s permission to leave this union, just as the rUK didn’t need the EU’s permission to leave.
Today is a day of contrasts, England in their isolationist triumph over Europe, are holding a celebration at ridding themselves of the EU and all it has to offer.
Scotland however, in the majority rightly sees this day as a day of sadness, as we’re forced to say goodbye to our European friends and allies. The consequences of Brexit which Scotland did not choose will be forced upon us, as are consequences of consecutive Tory governments that we didnt voted for.
Sturgeon must announce a second indyref date sooner than later whilst the being dragged out of the EU narrative is still fresh in voters minds. To delay it longer would be to risk voters loosing sight of this, and all the other benefits that we’ve lost by being forced out by a triumphant Tory government.
We are ahead in the polls, the SNP must capitalise on this, or face voters losing faith in them.
If only Alex Salmond was still the FM, I’d wager we’d be either independent or in the process of being so, pity.
Still time for Ian Blackford to save SNP blushes on the constitution but if he fails to do so, and there are no secret side letters, then perhaps the party will need to replace all the Europhiles if it is to regain credibility as a champion of people’s sovereignty.
Until then, wonder if I can take the wife’s name and become French or Spanish..
A warning to all you Claymore wielding warriors, (yes, I am too somewhat frustrated) Westminster is just waiting for the Scottish government in the shape of the S.N.P. , to make a mistake in their quest for independence, and the consequences from Westminster would be absolutely brutal, AND we would have no backing from the outside world.
Be careful what impulse you feel you ought to take immediately,
Remember the quote ” never interrupt the enemy,when they are making a mistake “?,
Well, that’s exactly the position Westminster and the Tory government are taking, they are just waiting to pounce, and rest assured if they got the opportunity, Scotland would indeed become a mere “shire” of England.
Unfortunately agree with every word.Lets hope for a brighter future and that yourself and Craig Murray join forces.
Enjoy your break.
@tammytroot, 12.18
I honestly don’t believe holyrood will exist in 2021.
Why else has the Scottish Office been so greatly expanded?
Wrong name, it is the office of the UK Government in Scotland. Holyrood will still exist in 2021 but its function will change into a talking shop as the power is drained off to reside in the office of the UK Government in Scotland.
where the feck to i lurk now !!!
Well… Time like this won’t come again anytime soon. Political non-entities leading unionists in Scotland, Boris ‘Scots are a verminous race’ Johnson a UK PM and leading Tories in England, LibDems and Labour in disarray in England and Scotland. If there was a referendum now – who’d be leading unionists – there’s no-one people trust. I’m sure they’d ferry Brown over again and let Ruth crawl back from under her rock and use BBC – but I’m also sure that wouldn’t be enough. Sooner or later Tories are going to come back with sleeker leaders and opportunity will have been lost.
I understand that NS’s speaking to soft Nos and maybe Yessers now, but she has to show something to the firm Yessers as well. And she doesn’t really have much time left.
How was it for you darling?
Well I felt the shaft.
But no happy ending.
When we started the run up to 2014 polls ran at what? 20 something %? Alex took us from there to 45% with all the Tories (Aye and the rest!) could throw at us.
Now we are at over 50% and the the leadership of the main vehicle are talking “now is not the time”.
I don’t give a shit what their reasons are, too comfortable, noses in the trough, devolutionists, too “woke”, too focused on international legal recognition (Aye right!). Too much legal and not enough revolution! Long and short of it, they have been “distracted” and have not delivered what they promised.
With all the gerrymandering and use of devious dark means we are at 50% ffs!! Time to regroup, forget the SNP, sidestep them, the “faithful” can come along for the ride if they can take the blinkers from their eyes for a moment, but we, the people, should not give up!!
Stu, once again you’ve called it, much respect and much appreciation for your efforts on our behalf, enjoy your well deserved rest. Hope circumstances will facilitate your return to the fray in April. But if not, a heart felt thanks dude.
Now where to find our latter day Wallace? Or Wallaceina if you prefer!
Handers!!?
After the first 3 odd sentences, you could see how the wind was blowing.
Christ, she mentioned the visa idea being turned down “within hours”. She should have said, Johnson has slapped OUR faces by laughing at it, within TWO hours.
And now, we’re told, she’s not required at this climate conference, here, right here, in f***** Glasgow.
I say again, why would you ask the partner you desire to part company from for their permission to do so.
You don’t, well, should’nt play by your opponent’s rules.
You take it to an neutral arbiter, in our case, the UN.
Ms. Sturgeon may be, as I’ve said, a decent administrator, but with a bunch of civil servants to do your bidding, why would you not be.
A general in this low-level war, not so much.
We need a Tommy Sheridan, somebody quick, with fire, not a nice middle-class policy wonk. Or wanker. But we ain’t got it.
I remember asking our MSP, possibly 2016, how the power was shared at the top of the SNP. He just laughted, and shrugged.
Shave aff the beard for a while, Stu, and travel among us, or on Bali, incognito. Take care, and relax. If you can.
A depressing summary. But true from what we have seen over the last couple of years. SNP people might find it painful to read…well…too bad.
I have not seen the SNP as the enabler for indy for some time and left the party as a result. What can the YES movement do now?
I have just cancelled my direct debit to the SNP. After 32 years it has come to this. If there is a change of strategy or leader, I may rejoin. For now they are not getting another penny from me. I might give the £2.00 a month to homeless people I meet on the street.
Can’t get time to watch speech, maybe just as well or would be feeling even worse than after reading a few sentences of Stuarts blog.
Doesn’t sound like enough to give me much hope for the future but maybe not completely dead by the sound of Stuart s comment.
Enjoy your rest Rev, it’s well earned and I thank you for your service.
I’m now off to my safe space.
” Albaman says:
31 January, 2020 at 12:49 pm
A warning to all you Claymore wielding warriors, (yes, I am too somewhat frustrated) Westminster is just waiting for the Scottish government in the shape of the S.N.P. , to make a mistake in their quest for independence, and the consequences from Westminster would be absolutely brutal, AND we would have no backing from the outside world.
That is exactly what we need, to be given a kicking as the Irish, or Nigerians, Indians or dare I say, the Jews in proto-Israel, after the treatment the survivors were subjected to.
They All decided they were’nt gonae take any snash from anybody antmore.
Please take time to read this link.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kefaya
You may find much that is disturbingly familiar.
Along with Québec, Catalunya, Alba/Scotland, Egypt….
quote: Ordinary Egyptians want democracy but will not fight for it.
Power corrupts, right enough,and colonial power corrupts absolutely. Mundell is trolling us Westminster is actually laughing at us…….we need a leader not an administrator
BBC saying she will not call a ref without permission
Permission!!
When a find out what she said it better be agreement
In the article the word “woke” is mentioned a couple of times but I have no idea what it is referring to. Could someone please tell me what “woke” means?
What do we want?
Another referendum,
when do we want it?
NOW.
We’d lose, ffs.
When she became first minister, NS promised she would be “the most open and accessible first minister”. I wrote to her with a complaint about a minister, enclosing private details. I was shocked when NS gave the letter to the minister to answer and I received the reply from him! I was even sure this was a breach of confidence and even illegal, but some faceless Scottish quango “said no”.
When we lost in 2014, the next day I was on here advocating a snap plebiscite so that the people of Scotland capitalise of the opportunity presented by Unionists promising Scotland “more powers”, but never having articulated what those “more powers” would be. The commitment was solid, and vacuum was palpable, and I honestly believe such a plebiscite would have seen the sovereign people of Scotland demanding back powers over broadcasting and Constitutional matters. Yes of course Westminster would have fought it, but they’d be fighting against the democratic will of a sovereign people.
But… We were hurting. We dithered. We lost Alex Salmond. We did nothing, and Unionists wormed off the hook with their “retrospective” sophistry on what the “Vow” actually meant. A big change which might have strengthened us didn’t happen. We could have salvaged something meaningful from defeat, but instead we got nothing.
I probably feel as deflated today as I didn’t in September 2014. Maybe more so, because Brexit was our key to freedom, and we’ve totally blown it. But we didn’t blow it today. We blew it back in 2016 when the SNP Government marched right passed the Constitutional ramifications of Scotland’s Remain Mandate being sovereign.
Do you remember Wull’s excellent comment about Theresa May adopting the “Scottish” doctrine over Brexit, – the people have spoken and they will have their Brexit, whereas the SNP was actually adopting the “English” doctrine that Parliament was sovereign and free to overrule and ignore the will of the people? Do you remember? Well friends, right there and then, I knew we were in trouble.
That the SNP was NOT building a case for Independence around the Constitutional ramifications of Scotland and England on opposite sides of a sovereign divide, has always filled me with great trepidation. That scenario is never going to end well.
All the things which have tripped Scotland up, the UK majority, the exclusion from Brexit, the exclusion from Brexit negotiations, the Section 30 Agreement, the revocation of Article 50, the list goes on and on…. Not one of these issues survives the test of Scottish Sovereignty.
We only “need” a Section 30 because the Scotland Act that set up Holyrood says we do. Our sovereign Constitution requires no such thing.
We couldn’t revoke Article 50 because the UK, not Scotland, was the “High Contracting Party”, (the actual name on the Treaty), but had Scotland demanded sovereign recognition, the EU and ECJ would have had to improvise a bespoke solution to accommodate Scotland, and likely devise a “third” way to incorporate a new member state which articles 48 and 49 couldn’t resolve… but they’d have done it!
I could go on, and on, and on, but time and time again Scotland has elected to do this the hard way, without formally resolving this ambiguity over sovereignty, and it is because we plough on “believing” ourselves sovereign BUT NOT PROVING IT, that we allow Westminster to get away with putting one obstacle after another in our way. The reason they keep doing it is because we keep letting them.
People of Scotland, do not despair. Do not give up. Let us compile the best and most authoritative possible dossier spanning the last 1050 years since the reign of Kenneth MacAlpine, the first King of Scotland, to validate and prove the Constitutional Sovereignty of our Scottish Nation, and further demolish the “sovereignty by Convention” enjoyed by Westminster since 1707.
Let us do last, the very thing we should have done first. Prove to the world that Scotland is a Constitutional Sovereignty, one of the world’s oldest Nations and one worthy of recognition, and that Westminster Sovereignty, and the “sovereign” integrity of the UK, is a fraudulent colonial fallacy.
Let International Law judge our Sovereign Constitution, because we have such a rich case to present…
How can America deny Scotland the Declaration of Arbroath when it is Scotland’s Declaration which was the model for their own Constitution as they themselves rejected British rule? Forget Trump, there are intelligent thoughtful Americans who believe in justice.
Who would actually deny us? Germany? France? Italy? Russia? (The Declaration of Arbroath claims we hail from Russia!), China? I think not. Scotland sent a fine Ambassador to China in the shape of Eric Liddell, yes, Chariots of Fire Eric Liddell, who stayed helping Chinese people during their deprivations under the Japanese occupation. Scotland has friends in China too, I promise you.
My friends, why are we afraid to ask this question? Get it asked, get it answered, and let us be rid of this Union for good. Scotland is Sovereign by order of the Declaration of Arbroath, which secured International Recognition from his Holiness the Pope in 1328, further ratified by the Dowager Queen Isabella of England “….separate in all things from the kingdom of England, whole, free, and undisturbed in perpetuity, without any kind of subjection, service, claim or demand”. Doesn’t that outgun a shabby deed cobbled together from bribes, lies and indoctrination under duress?
NOTHING has written the Declaration of Arbroath out of our Constitution, NOTHING! And the Claim of Right, the Claim that we Scots are Sovereign and have the right to depose our Monarch, serves as formal and repeated affirmation that Sovereignty enshrined upon Scots by the Declaration of Arbroath still stands. It survived the Union because Scotland’s Sovereignty is superior to the scabby Union.
Let us get this Constitutional absurdity to a Constitutional Courtroom. I would not harm a hair on the head of any English person, but I would wish a speedy Death to this Union.
Hey, do you still live in the south of England?
I get that you’re angry. During the IndyRef SO many didn’t realise that it was NOW or NEVER. Why would the Tories EVER offer another chance especially when they know they’d lose? Why would they give up the revenue that Scotland gives?
If a free and fair referendum were held this year we’d win. I think we’d have squeaked it last time if there’d been a level playing field too.
But what is Sturgeon actually supposed to do to achieve this?? Stu, if you know then please say!
To declare UDI requires MASSIVE support of the public and support from other countries too. Having a majority in favour won’t be enough. Westminster holds ALL the cards. The only way this’ll work is if there’s outside intervention, the UN for example. UK was FORCED to hold referenda in both Gibraltar and Falklands when the public in those places didn’t want one and were over 90% in favour of staying part of UK. (NB I know both places are contested ownership but still) Yes, I do know those happened under a different government and THIS government tends to ignore international law (ie the Chagos Islands) but it may be a starting point.
I don’t think UK govt would react in the same way as Spain to the Catalonians, they’d be MUCH more subtle and use both press and TV and social media to quash us. But I could well be proven wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time they sent the tanks to George Sq, or Unionist thugs more recently.
We must be an unstoppable force, they must be embarrassed internationally and eventually we will have to stop cooperating with them to ensure they take notice…
@Kenny J
A Catharsis to pave the way for our renewing Scottish Spring.
No going back, no time for despondency.
This is not a game of Rugby!
Take a well earned break Rev., you’ll be needed if the fight is to continue. The current SNP leadership don’t appear to be supportive of ethical reason or the rule-of-law. The woke-set are a threat to Scottish democracy, and will never lead us to independence.
EXISTENTIALISM AND NATURAL LAW
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AdelLawRw/2005/3.pdf
Scotland is being dragged out of the EU.
.
What does the blessed Nicola say but “zat no awfae?, its a sin, so it is”.
.
Scotland will be independent soon but not with this shower.
Hopefully, the Salmond trial will show what really is going on and what we have to do.
SNP membership cancelled.
————-
ESTRAGON: I can’t go on like this.
VLADIMIR: That’s what you think.
Great timing Sturgeon’s speech today…Brexit D Day…was it meant to inspire hope….for the Unionists and Brexiteers …seems to have worked…as mucho trolling is being undertaken …while those of us who elected them are left feeling a sense of hopelessness and powerless… so remind me…why am I going to the Holyrood rally tonight?….was her speech supposed to rally the troops….or round them up into a corral..where escape is futile ?
Seems if I do go to Holyrood tonight…I will not be going with a spring in my step…..but dragging myself along knowing that as far as the SNP is concerned…. my resistance is indeed futile to WM’s uber alles Brexit…..So Scotland you SHALL be taken out of the EU against your will…who knew…indeed.
What a joke….I feel as if a white flag has been waved while at the same time an EU flag remains flying at Holyrood as a token gesture of minimal defiance and to pacify the natives into believing that somehow …..what ?
Should the speech she gave this morning have been made at all ?
Personally I think it would have been better had she said nothing at all….but on reflection that was exactly what she did say…..nothing at all.
Have the SNP Scotlanded it ?
Angus McNeil should make an SNP leadership challenge. He could prioritise getting indyref2. John Swinney or Mike Russell could get on with the FM job.
Those that equate this to turning back at Derby, we never even reached Derby, we never even left Edinburgh.
What to do in the future, Holyrood difficult to say, do I want the Tories running Scotland, there is a perverse idea that the unionist should reap what they sow. stop all the mitigation. Westminster, I will spoil the ballot paper, nothing better than the spoiled ballot papers winning the constituency.
@HYUFD
I suppose you can enjoy your gloating, it is probably deserved, we don’t have a leader but a bureaucrat leading Scotland.
We need to take our constitutional right to hold a referendum to the courts. If the Scottish government are unable,or unwilling to, then I suggest it is an option for the independence movement, as a whole.
A massive crowdfund by Scottish Independence Convention, Yes movement, Wings, SNP and Green groups, Common Weal, AUOB, Women for Independence, Scots English, Pensioners etc.
I’ve always come to wings for facts and reason and informed perspective. I’ve never been disappointed. Unfortunately.
Thanks for all your inspiration and hard work Stuart.
You were a breath of fresh air.
Feel like I will now be breathing air thick with rotting bowel particles henceforth.
Bring on the corona virus.
Here is the point.
Does anyone on here seriously think that Alex Salmond would not have delivered indy ref 2 by now. It would have been game set and match a year ago. So when people say we don’t need a change of leader. They are just delusional.
Nicola is a fine First Minister. She is not a clever strategist or a street fighter. She was slide tackled by Theresa May . One of the worst Prime Ministers in history.
Now she is being ignored by one of the dumbest Prime Ministers in history. He is ignoring her because he knows she will not act. He will keep on ignoring her , because it’s working.
Words without action have no consequences for your enemy.
i thought it was a great speech by nicola,
she is doing what she can, im not sure anyone else has proposed a different route.
until support rises further, what else is there?
I agree with every word of this article . The party are failing its membership but get away with it because there are far too many blindly loyal members who believe Nicola is a saint and can do no wrong , or who disagree but still blindly send Murrell money every month.
Does the party really think the yes movement will buy being asked for ANOTHER mandate in 2021? For what ? To do nothing with once again?
I ,for one , won’t get fooled again. If there’s a new Indy party in 2021 , I shall look at their offer , but the SNP have had the last vote they are getting from this household.
Still it’s up to us to keep moving things forward – any which way we can.
I still think there is huge merit in keeping the idea of a pro Indy list only party (for now) alive and well. We have to have a pro Indy majority in holyrood or it really will be game over for a considerable period of time.
Meantime there is potentially immeasurable suffering to come – not because of brexit but because of the right wing fundamentalists in power in London. This is about people. Tactics and strategy is all well and good but if it involves suffering then the tactics could well backfire.
And as if by magic, my wee pal Nicola has just sent me an email. Here’s what it says:
“Tonight Scotland will be taken out of the European Union against our wishes.
The UK that people voted for in 2014 will no longer exist. That means change is coming to Scotland. But it does not need to be the change the Tories want to impose upon us.
So we’ll do all we can to secure a referendum this year. Today we have asked the Electoral Commission to re-test the question “Should Scotland be an independent country?”
We will also continue to build consensus around Scotland’s right to choose by inviting elected representatives to come together to endorse a modern Claim of Right for Scotland through a new Constitutional Convention.
And we will shortly be publishing the “New Scotland” series of papers – providing the answers that people want, including on the transition from a Yes vote to an independent country.
Finally, our party campaign is ready to ramp up. We’re doubling the SNP campaign budget this year to support new independence materials, local newspaper adverts and a new campaign film focused on undecided voters.
More than ever before, now is the time to have those conversations with friends, family, neighbours and colleagues. And the party will help you do just that.
Today we’ve launched our fresh new yes.scot website, offering new ways to connect and campaign. With new downloadable materials, social media tools, and a section for Yes events, it will be your go-to site for the campaign ahead.”
Nice of her to write though.
My website is live but the content has to be completed
I feel the SNP is not led by dadical seekers of Independence but by a bunch of careerist politicians, They have not learnt from experience . I remeember the late douglas Crawford, one of 11 SNP MPs sent to Westminster in the early 70s telling me how they were sucked into the Westminster system, obsessed with trying to learn the outdated procedures of the Commons until they forgot why they were there
It issad to see the second raters trying to make their mark
AuldReekieJim
As far as I understand international human rights law, it applies directly to individuals through the EU. This means individuals living in the EU can challenge public policy that undermines their human rights, in domestic courts. In fact, it is the duty of domestic courts to ensure international human rights law has effect in domestic jurisprudence. I’m very out of practice though and may be wrong in suggesting Scotland’s judiciary are a primary source of our problems. They don’t appear to support the Law of Persons, or the principle of universal human rights. They stand along-side Westminster law, in disregarding epistemic integrity.
Reminds me of the Ali/Liston fight, Liston just sat on his stool and refused to come out in round seventh round. Sturgeon has just spat out the mouth guard.
@Breeks (1.25) –
Hear hear, yet again.
Isn’t it odd that this post – which looks like being the last for a while – has as its title a synonym of a word we’ve all learned to avoid using?
Here’s hoping that the resumption of ‘normal service’ in this place coincides with the exoneration of Big Eck. We need him back. (Mind you, who would blame him if he told us all to gtf!?)
🙂
“Or failing a court judgement, the SNP could have used an extremely rare period of arithmetical leverage at Westminster against a comically weak minority government to negotiate a second referendum in return for allowing a relatively soft Brexit deal to pass. (Which was the best-case scenario for everyone in any event – as it is we have the worst one, with the UK facing a hard exit and Scotland without an escape route.)”
And yet this website, along with the Blairite wing of the Labour party, the Lib Dems, the SNP, and even The Guardian (who ran an appalling editorial just before the election) decided to form a circular firing squad, and tore apart Jeremy Corbyn and his position, thus helping divide the very voter block they needed.
But there NEVER was going to be a clear mandate for anything we all wanted individually, and a united liberal front was the only hope we had to resist the unfolding misery. All that had to be done was accept Corbyn as a caretaker PM, but our political and media establishment resented him more than they loved their own people. Of course, they’ll also be able to ride out any negative effects of Brexit, so it wasn’t much of a gamble for them. But this ideological purity, has led the entire, Dis-united Kingdom into disaster.
I’m not privy to whether the Corbyn cabinet made impossible demands before offering unity themselves; but I don’t hold out much hope we’ll learn from this and work together… the internet is driving all sides of politics into ever more insular and insane self absorbtion; Except the hard right has always loved to march in lock-step with their chosen authority figure, even at the expense of the rule of law as events in the US are proving…
Now, I don’t blame RevStu for needing a break; after campaigning for Momentum, and hearing just how willing the English electorate were to throw out even local MPs they really liked because they “couldn’t support Corbyn”, I disconnected myself from politics shortly after seeing the exit polls too. There’s only so much awfulness anyone with a heart can take. However if we’re not going to keep fighting, it’s only going to get worse from here on in, so I hope when you’ve recharged enough personally, you pick yourselves back up and get stuck in again.
Not because I agree with the Independence movement as such, but because there’s a lot of common ground we need to try and hold together. And none of the smug twats in power now have any better offer than picking us off one by one.
Maybe the UN job was on offer and NS is just looking for a way out without resigning, being replaced is the perfect get out. Or am I being too cynical?
Mist001 @2:05
Yeah I got the same.
Hit the “unsubscribe” button.
Don’t need any more meaningless tripe cluttering up my inbox
I think it’s Important during these difficult times to spare a thought for the unionist parties. They have based their campaigns on saying No to an Indyref and the SNP have listened. Even they realise that the SNP have no interest in Independence just power and must look to some other simple message. Can’t imagine the conservatives will be looking further than the gender debate and the new woke brigade in the SNP for inspiration.
Titles,
That’s an awful lot of pish for just one comment.
Perhaps we might have a referendum on whether the 1707 treaty of Scoto-English was itself ‘legal’.
Given that representative democracy didn’t exist in the Scotland of the time and there was exchange of monies, favours and promises from the English, by modern criteria it would be considered ‘defective and deficient’.
Titler, stupid autocorrect
This is a very sad dzy indee We needed a whirlwind to lead us over the past year, and all we got wzs a draught through a keyhole.
The reality is that we, the people, must kedp our dream alive.
There are undohbtedly SNP members at Wexgminster who think as we do. We find them and back them.
By all tnats righf and just we have earned the simple concept that we are represented by politicians willing to fight to the end on our behalf in whatever manner causes Westminster the most difficulty. We only have compliance at present.
I thank you Stu. Hounded and villified for monghs for merely speaking the truth. I hope they come back here and apologiseg
sincerely.
The Bruce never gave in. Neither xhould we.
Titler
Corbyn is essentially an English socialist who was prone to Euroscepticism. He offered Scotland very little love and no hope, IMHO.
@Craig Murray…
I don’t do Twitter, but the advice that creating division now is playing into the hands of Westminster is advice that would have been much better sent to Bute House before abandoning the 73% of Scottish Voters who wanted some kind of fight put up to save us from Brexit. Strikes me it’s a bit late for SNP damage limitation.
I don’t know that it’s a Party we need, but definitely and primarily a knot of streetwise and well connected “Believers” in Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, who can put together a case for International Recognition that will be taken seriously.
It needs to move fast, take no prisoners, and have first rate communications. Political dead wood should be avoided in my opinion, but I think blue YES still has iconic branding that people trust and like. See that wee blue circle and you know where you are.
I hope with every fibre that a YES Constitutional Group can create itself quickly, and go for broke in pursuit of Sovereign Recognition from the UN and Europe.
Get it tooled up with good people, good researchers, good communicators, excellent Constitutional lawyers, and crowd funded to the rafters. Leave the politics to follow on when it’s ready… their time will come with a ratification plebiscite.
I’m not talking about rewording a Constitution. When I say Constitutional Test Case, I mean the Constitution jugular…. outright Sovereign Recognition, nothing less.
I agree with a lot the article. I thought and said at the time that 35 MPs should be used to get what we wanted and not to ask for a GE that replaced 35 with power with 48 there to be mocked. However where I disagree is with people saying abandon marching. The marches should continue but focus should change to include Civil Rights. I also would still like to see some independence grouping challenging on the Lists where the Greens are unlikely to be successful. I will certainly never vote SNP/SNP again, SNP constituency and either Green list or another Indy party. Kirkcaldy showed you can get elected without SNP support. I will remain a member but will scrub round funding any of their appeals but will use that cash to top up what I donate to IScot magazine, James Kelly and others. Maybe Yes could coalesce some well known Indy people to stand on a Yes list. I am sure if that was crowdfunded it would get the support.
Ian Blackford tweeted this today :
Excellent speech from
@NicolaSturgeon
giving leadership to the people of Scotland as
@BorisJohnson
takes Scotland out of The EU against our will.
@theSNP
will step up its campaign for indy and respectfully engage with undecided voters. Scotland will determine its own future”.
Yes Ian..excellent speech if you’re a f***ing Zombie…pray tell me how is she giving leadership to the people of Scotland ?
By once again saying Hold..Hold…Hold…to infinity and beyond…..and pray Boris ‘ALLOWS’ us one next year…pretty please….
Oh and will you STOP saying “TAKING SCOTLAND OUT OF THE EU AGAINST IT’S WILL”…we, in Scotland KNOW that and we also know that your party seems to be doing sweet fa**y Adams about it .
Pray when will you step up YOUR campaign for Indy…bit late to be talking about STEPPING UP the campaign….what have you being doing so far with the mandates the Scottish people have given you….should you not have been STEPPING UP your campaign long ago….appreciate you have been busy the last three and half years trying to save the UK but come on….
ps. the undecided voters ?…well some of them have decided, thanks to Brexit, to come over to our side…but not sure if they will stay if we ‘ALLOW’ WM to dictate our programme for Indy and rejoining the EU.
Ah I see you also say ” Scotland will determine it’s own future”…how so…when Nicola has clearly stated this morning that is NOT the case…..she has made clear tis Boris who gets to decide NOT the Scottish people so why are you lying…to try and keep us on board perhaps….
The only positive today is that we , who have voted for and are members of, the SNP have destroyed the Unionists claim that we are members of an SNP Cult….indeed one of the ONLY things they, the Unionists, are NOT crowing about today….Hmm
See this is what happened to Labour in Scotland…if you take people for granted and do NOT keep your promises then you risk becoming extinct through your inability to keep those promises you made to the Scottish people…..
I think it is time the SNP elected a new leader at WM…perhaps Tommy Shepherd, Joanna Cherry or Philippa Whitford…because Ian is and will just embarrass us if he continues with any more repetitive and empty speeches in respect to “Scotland will NOT be dragged out of the EU against it’s will”….in the HOC.
Like others…if there is no change or movement I will cancel my SNP membership and instead give it to an animal charity…at least then I will know the money will be put to a good use.
ps…I heard BBC QT will be in Dundee in a couple of weeks…send a sheeite representative and not one of the big hitters….to seal the deal….I am sure Lisa Nandy, or Emily Thornberry will be there….
AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH…..to keep my sanity I will also add a weak……….LOL
Stu, from what you say, you need an extended break. I think you’re being wise. I hope and trust you will be able to relax, and to remain relaxed for a good while, enjoying the ‘break’ and allowing yourself to completely de-stress. I look forward to your return.
At Westminster, party leaders change regularly. It’s par for the course. It’s not the end of the world. It never is. So, Nicola is on a sticky wicket? So what!
This is a time for evaluation, not for emotional collapse.
The Independence Movement is alive and well – and will go on until Scotland is independent.
Sure there will be setbacks and disappointments. No one ever said it would be silky smooth. Ask the 62 colonies now with their Independence restored.
FWIW, my own and growing focus will be on the Independence Movement – not on the SNP. It has to be accepted that SNP politicians may just be like many others elsewhere and subject to the lure of riches, and become corrupted. Such is modern life. Careerism, ambitious self-interest, and the love of money, such are the temptations in political life, as elsewhere.
Nothing is more important to me than Scotland’s Independence.
I refuse to be deflected or distracted from this.
I recognise that for some the pressure may be enormous, while for myself it is not so. Pressure reveals weaknesses. Scotland is being pressure – tested. Prior to Independence.
Better now than later.
For too many years now the SNP have treated independence as a debate instead of a task. That was the tone of NS today. The requirements of each are totally different and the SNP need to beef up on their task management abilities. Both are needed but as far as independence is concerned, they are too focussed on debates as I see it. The SNP have a good track record in managing Scotland since they came to power and that is important for having the credibility to win a referendum. But right now the wheels are spinning without any forward movement towards a referendum.
It’s clear that Brexit will start to bite fast now. The US have announced just today that they will demand that the UK accepts US higher prices and lower standards. They also openly say that UK can’t deal with US & EU negotiations running in parallel and are therefore in a weak bargaining position. Can’t really argue with that and all this without the UK even having left the EU yet. I expect that large companies will now be announcing their plans to leave the UK now that Brexit has happened.
So there will be strong factual evidence before the end of 2020 of just how bad things will be outside of the EU. The UK tories are already talking about 5% cuts across all depts at Westminster. With the UK becoming ever more financially strapped, I can’t see Westminster ever letting Scotland choose its future and the UK quite possibly losing Scotland’s assets and revenues, so spending time debating with the UK parliament is a waste of everyones time.
If the shit’s going to seriously start hitting the UK fan this year anyway, why not go down the only route that appears to be a realistic option to at least have a choice about holding a referendum – the legal route. Whether that’s domestic or international law I have no idea, but if that is likely to be the final decision process, why wait. I don’t see crowdfunding a legal challenge as being a issue. Better than waiting for more political debates that lead to… ?
@Ottomanboi
Good idea the people of Scotland have never ratified the Treaty of Union, it’s about time they had the vote on it.
And before HYUFD buts in about 2014, the question was not do you ratify the treaty of union.
That SNP email seems to me to be a reaction to Stu’s post and anger amongst the Yes Movement.
It looks like they are trying to sweeten the pill.
Maybe some arses have been kicked, I could be wrong though.
Sending back your membership cards
Starting another Indy party
Going on an extended holiday
Demanding Sturgeon stands down.
This is exactly what Carlaw, Davidson Rennie, Jack Jonson, and May want Independence supporters to do.
Got to wonder whose side some of the posters are on.
Support for a vote is building and will reach a maximum when Brexit bites at the Farmers and Fishermen , and leads to large scale redundancies. NO voters will have to suffer before they change their vote.
Nicola secured herself a tidy wee job and has turned from a teen activist to a self serving liar happy to let Scotland lose it’s chance to progress her own agenda and that of her husbands.
I have said for years that it should never be allowed for a married couple to hold that much power and they’ve proved the point for me.
It appears the happy couple have been having a great wee time to themselves running ram-shod over the party and picking their pals to work with them. If not pals then people who are too week to disagree with them. You disagree and you are out. Or, alternatively, you may find yourself subject to a falsified allegations constructed to collapse your career and reputation. I know that may seem a random comment because who could do such a thing to another human? (warning, that last statement contained sarcasm).
I am absolutely livid and sick to my stomach. Many of us have carried on fighting since 2014 by running groups, building up a fighting fund, production and distribution of leaflets etc. We’ve always been held back, as you can’t campaign when there is no referendum to campaign for, but we do what we can and have still managed to convert people on that path.
All that hard work and Nicola and Peter have literally booted us all in the baws. Those we have converted will now think ‘I can’t trust the SNP’. Despite the truth being that Indy isn’t about the SNP, and Nicola and Peter are not THEE SNP either, they have tainted the movement.
It’s time for her to take her cushy UN job (or whatever she has lined up) and get out of our road. There is no coming back from this for her. We may hate Boris but we expect him to act as he does. Nicola has out and out betrayed us and that is unforgivable.
As for people saying we need to hold her to her promise of an Indy ref in 2020. I agree we should try. She needs to be held to account. However THERE IS NO MONEY. They’ve pissed it up a wall (example: how much was wasted on ‘I’m with Nicola’ merchandise?) and now she wants to delay to cover up their incompetence. Only way it’ll happen is if she is gone (leaving a letter saying ‘good luck, there is no money’ of course), the new leader announces the date for the next indy ref and its the grass roots who fight the campaign. That would work better as we actually know what we are doing.
Personally I will continue to fight for Indy but I’ll be having nothing to do with the SNP. When we get independence it will be won by us and after that I don’t care what happens to the SNP. Indy will bring about a whole new set of political parties, as well as drastically changing the currently established ones significantly. it will be interesting to see what that looks like and I look forward to reviewing their policies and finding a new party to vote for.
Clydebuilt
How can Yes support keep building if the FM keeps giving negative signals to the people?
It’s now blatantly clear that there’s something weird and Stalinist going on with the SNP and Alex Salmond. Their latest promo is really well produced and has the theme of ‘standing on the shoulders of giants’, with plenty of indy heroes from past decades featured.
But not Alex Salmond.
There’s obviously some point being made here. You don’t make a film with that theme on a day like this and omit our greatest ‘giant’ and not be trying to force some point home. Hard to think this is unrelated to the upcoming court case, but who knows.
To any lurking SNP apparatchiks: you may have shot the independence movement in the head today (and that video doesn’t help). Time will tell. So here’s a request: if the movement starts falling apart now, the only way you’ll reverse that is by *acknowledging* the deep frustrations of your activists about your lack of urgency.
Stop directing every single word to soft Noes and soft Labour voters. Stop ignoring us. Stop pretending we, and Alex Salmond, don’t exist.
A few things we know…
I was a teenager when Thatcher came to power. I watched as the economy was demolished from within, and Scotland humped over and over. At least she admitted she was an English Nationalist.
And when she lost every tory seat in Scotland – she ignored the result and kept on with her plans.
However, it took a further 10 years, but that built the foundation for a devolved parliament. Won with over 70% of the vote.
A lot of our former No voters, wanted Devo Max, and they certainly did not want Holyrood dismantled… or their NHS destroyed. Those are things we must highlight.
We are at that stage now with Indy, I think. Just some skirmishes to make it formal and take it over the line.
That said, there are dates in the calendar and lines in the sand – that all Yessers must recognise, in order to see how to beat the British Establishment. Brexit day is one.
We know that the British Establishment, cannot afford to lose Scotland the Cash Cow. And we know they play dirty. If they cannot bribe, corrupt, or seduce – they will kill or threaten to kill.
And its this last bit we need to recognise. There will never be evidence, and there will never be trials. Nor should there be, I do not want some uncaring, power crazed leader, prepared to sacrifice their own family at the alter of Indy.
But if you recognise these tactics will have been deployed, you can look at the battlefield, look at the important dates on the calendar, and see where the lines in the sand are… and in being prepared, leave those who have been knobbled where they are and go around.
The Polls stand at 51% for YES, and that is with about 0 campaigning from the SNP and no destination date in sight.
Kircaldy’s MP won, in spite of the SNP machine doing him down. That was the Yes movement showing its strength and independence.
We have elected reps that are extremely good, able and proven – Cherry, Whitford, Shepherd, McNeil.
And a Yes movement, fully briefed, organised, and ready to go.
As hard as today is, NS has finally shown her hand to the YES movement, and has no other hiding places. We can and must go round her.
About 2 years ago, there was a clear road path to Indy, a plan, a campaign route. We all knew it. Pete Wishart was the first to spike the guns. I wrote then that he had taken the wind out of our sails. ‘Wait till the terms of Brexit are known’, ‘wait for Holyrood Elections 2021’, he said…. when we are out of the EU and the protections it offers, and our parliament in Edinburgh is rendered powerless.
I was a member of the SNP at that time and went to hear him, and John Swinney at the local Constituency meet. Specifically I went to see and hear if Swinney would back him up. He did.
All the forthcoming Brexit / Austerity devastation is going to be put at the door of the SNP. On steroids. That will be the unofficial Better Together campaign policy.
Now would be a really good time for folk to chose – loyalty to Indy, or the SNP. If it is the first, it enables you to step away from the party and out manoeuvre the British Establishment.
Stands Scotland as she did? Naw, she disnae. She’s just gettin startit wi thrawn.
Haha, I see some SNP people see it as a cunning plan to get unionist politicians to agree that Scotland has a right to choose. They will happily agree with this but then tell you there is not the support for it. Whilst others attack any criticism by inferring the critics have done nothing to advance the cause, without any knowledge of the persons input, they are now New Labour, bloody arseholes.
I’m afraid my membership of the SNP is at an end, they cannot or will not deliver independence with the party in it’s current format. In fact I believe they now see delivering GRA as more important than delivering independence.
It is clear that you need a break, Stu.
Veiled hints from unnamed senior SNP figures, and the ‘J’Accuse’ hinted at in April in the wake of the Salmond Trial leading to, presumably Sturgeon’s fall from grace and sacking, really is beneath you.
Enjoy your sabbatical.
You made the Herald’s day, btw; some may consider that feat as ‘treachery’.
See my receptionist on the way out and make an appointment for early Spring. Keep taking the tablets.
This article is is the perfect example of why I follow this blog. If WOS shuts down you should be a big time journalist somewhere else.
I said it before – the battle is lost and it was lost sometime after 2016. Getting through what was happening to thick, obnoxious SNP die hards was like talking to labour die hards back in the day.
The one thing you didnt mention in your article is that there is also the case to be made that Westminster will make it a 60% threshold for a referendum. They have the perfect excuse after all the constitutional shit the remainers caused after the Brexit vote. Who would want to go through years of ‘division’ again?
Couple that with the Yes/SNP obnoxious progressivism and its curtains for Scottish independence for another couple of decades.
If Salmond had still been at the wheel we’d probably be seeing a consistent 55% in favor of indy on most polls. As it is he was written out of the history books by people not fit to shine his fucking shoes all while basking in the solid support of the low information electorate who would throw tantrums on the merest negative opinion of ‘oor wee Nicola’ or her shit woke policies.
I was amazed people would hope for anything from them on the recent election. Any Scot who would support the SNP now is a fucking idiot. Cheers
In view of Gordon Ross’s today’s indycar broadcast, I shall reluctantly keep an open mind until 11 PM tonight.
Jimmy The Pict wrote on 31/01/20 @ 11:44 am
“Might not even vote come the next election. Why bother.”
It’s a bit late in the day now but that’s exactly what we all should have done for the past 3 Westminster general elections. Promoted a huge Scotland-wide boycott Westminster campaign.
But we cannot afford to take that route with Holyrood, that would give London the perfect position to state something along the lines of ‘O.K. fair enough! You ungrateful Jocks don’t want self-government so no point in wasting our time etc etc on Holyrood’ followed by the speedy closure of said place.
Also, giving the BritNat Unionists a majority in Holyrood will be *THE* worst thing we’ve *EVER* done because then you can guarantee, if they don’t shut the place down, they will make vast changes to the rules, regulations and laws putting to bed forever any chance of independence. They will jump through hoops to help their London masters shut the place down.
By all means let’s get a boycott Westminster campaign going but at all costs we *MUST* maintain, and grow, our power at Holyrood. By we i mean The SNP as the pro-indy political vehicle. And at the same time we pro-indy supporters, or those in favour of it, could run a campaign for Sturgeons resignation.
Just some ideas but the most important issue is that we do not let our anger at the spineless procrastinator and her entourage of bridesmaids (“advisers”) destroy what we have worked for thus far.
We must ensure we remain in control at Holyrood. And very unfortunately indeed that even means with NS at the helm if a better replacement can’t be found. Holyrood must remain ours. That makes shutting it down even more difficult and far less justifiable, from a democratic world view perspective.
One final point to be repeated: We need to be looking seriously at what to do for Holyrood 2021 elections and the list vote, whilst continuing with our indy campaigns to convince folk.
Yep… Gut wrenching!!! when leadership is needded,, we get the SNP gravy train!! and make no mistake about it, the are numerous carrerist arrogant elected politicians that saw the SNP movement as an easy ticket and lined their pockets!!
Check out Midlothian for evidence!
However, Either the SNP is playing an absolute blinder by letting the natural flow of time to secure enough support for indy, or…. more likely… they are as Stu says!!
Im with stu on this one!
When leadership is needed, take inspiration from the men and women who fought for Scotland right to be free.
maybe this would shame the current leadership. I doubt it though.
custodeons of our countries aspirations and freedom have a huge responsibility. Im afraid they are not up to the job.
Hope the 48 start chocking on their prawn sanwhiches!!
Not unsurprisingly the I hate Nicola brigade are in full flow, and unfortunately today’s speech by Nicola has done nothing to help counter the assertions or more importantly move our cause forward. The next few days for us acolytes are going to be interesting.
There are many things the FM could do. Article 50 has five parts and at 11:01 pm the UK moves on to Part 4 and a lot can happen during the transitional arrangement, or the standstill period, when those devolved powers the EU has responsibility for return to Scotland. The promised details of the agreement struck between the UK government and the Scottish government on those powers that will be ‘shared’ and the disputes procedure has not been revealed. I would say there is a real probability of Westminster and the EU working with the Scottish Government on a differentiated deal for the next phase?
Take your money and count your lucky stars you got away with it.
Thank you Stu for your years of support. Much appreciated.
Hopefully our sadness will go and the fight continue. Look forward to your return later.
Clapper 57 @2.29
Unfortunate news about Ian Blackford – I was rather hoping he might trigger 48 by-elections at (or before) 10.59pm to help deny the legitimacy of any claim to sovereignty, under international law and in agreement with EU, that might arise thereafter.
I to wish for independence in my lifetime but at 82 time is running out,what can I do sack the FM go with guns blazing to Westminster,call a ref.now outside the law and not recognised and if the majority is not in our favour what then.
I don’t have the answer but only the SNP and the Yes movement will do it for us,not the MSM or any Unionist party but all SNP MPs and MSPs must stop being so mealy mouthed about answering the lies that are spouted.
Get angry don’t care about the fall out from the likes of BBC and their lackeys.
The Independence Movement will not go away.
vlad (not that one) says:
31 January, 2020 at 3:00 pm
In view of Gordon Ross’s today’s indycar broadcast, I shall reluctantly keep an open mind until 11 PM tonight.
Vlad what did he say?
Indeed, if we are having an indyref this year then time is short Nicola, we have to get campaigning, officially so folk will open their doors to us. We had two years last time. So no kidding, we need an official, ScotGov sanctioned campaign.
The whole point of this silly political wankfest just announced is that it relies on the assumption that Boris Johnson with a massive majority is in any sense of the world a democrat. Evidence, especially wrt to Scotland says otherwise.
The convention could come out wholeheartedly for independence and the polls can show 70% for Yes and the SNP be returned next year etc. etc. and Johnson does not have to pay the slightest attention and unless our partners in Europe choose to make it an issue in the Brexit negotiations nobody can force him to change his mind.
SO, we need a proper, voting Plan B. Weaponise the List vote next year, announce it now and get the parties to state their positions, no fence sitting allowed. Then we can get campainging. But no it won’t be while Sturgeon is in charge.
As you identify Rev ever since she marched us up the hill then abandoned us post Brexit I think she is too comfortable and too frit. Ms Sturgeon, you are blue nosed feartie. Prove us wrong, go on. I dare you.
RE to my last post.
Maybe something the SNP could do is to stand down as the Government call an election now on a manifesto of Scotland joining the EU and having a Referendum on Independence.
Is that possible.
Looks like Bella Caledonia is more excited about the prospect of WoS demise than independence demise. Maybe he thinks we will switch our contributions to him, sorry but I would rather give my money to the Tories.
Scott- Of course they could, but we know they won’t . The gradualists are running the show here.
@Big Jock 15:14
In short: He hopes EU will offer Boris a free access to EU market etc. on condition that he allows indyref.
Scotland could remain in EU, EU could get access to Scottish resources, Boris would get a seamless access to EU.
All happy, but EU cannot offer this while UK is a member. At 23.01 tonight they are no longer constrained.
@Scott
Doesn’t work like that at Holyrood, the SNP can stand down but that doesn’t guarantee an election. In fact what would probably happen is that if a governing party could not be chosen then WM would just take control as they did in NI.
I will further opine that I bet Carles Puigdemont in his enforced exile looks across the North Sea at Scotland and wonders where our famed fighting spirit has gone and if we have lost our cojones.
There are many in the yes movement raging at the snp and nicola sturgeon and rightly so. They have taken advantage of our loyalty and service to the cause of our freedom for their own personal gain, in my eyes and many thousands of people they are nothing more than paper tigers. Now an snp trougher has said we must get 60% in favour of indy in the polls before we call for another referendum, fuck off!!. If they don’t have the heart to fight for our freedom then she and them should stand aside, and leave the fight to the real freedom fighters, we the sovereign people of Scotland.
For the first time I’m sorry I’m not an SNP member, so I could tell them where to stick their membership.
As I’ve stated in previous blogs, let’s get behind AUOB to start a political wing for MSP’s, at least on the list vote. It would certainly put the wind up SNP and give us Indy supporters some thing constructive to get behind, I know there are thousands of people like me who, not SNP members, who work hard pushing the cause day in day out.
We will not give up,no matter who is at the top of SNP,the message is simple,
GET THE FINGER OUT OR WE WILL DO IT FOR YOU
There were only ever two sets of laws inscribed on stone, Moses and Hammurabi, all the rest were on less enduring material.
Fetishizing law, especially someone else’s interpretation of it, is weird.
Made by human hand ‘Law’ can be remade by that same hand.
Bonded servitude was once the law, as was being hanged for sodomy.
We need to get practical about this law thing.
Some laws do not merit recognition.
Westminster constitutional laws? on s’en bat les couilles!
Stuart….have a well deserved rest and once again thank you for your honesty, diligence and service to the Indy cause….
Thank you also for giving me an opportunity to voice my frustrations, opinions and rehashed guff on here…
I sincerely wish you all the best….Thank you.
ps. I just realised in ranting like a mad woman in my above posts I forgot THE most important thing to do…and that was to write a comment like this to you.
Trust me there are many many people on here and outwith here who value your contribution to THE debate….to those who don’t I suggest they revisit all of your old posts and perhaps then they will see past their interpretation of your current position and understand your real intention and motivation….the independence movement is greater than just one party…..as an SNP voter and member even I can see that….and NO peeps I, for one, do not HATE Nicola Sturgeon…hate should only be used to those who deserve it and who continually say hateful things and act hatefully towards others…she does not…but I disagree with her strategy…or rather seemingly lack of strategy….on when and how to gain independence.
Have a lovely day Stu…and everyone else too.
Everyone is disappointed to varying degrees.
So on another but related topic, has anyone seen the pic accompaning the news item on RT.com about the Brexit Party leaving the EU?
They are being piped out by a piper FFS!
So in the spirit that it is meant (and if anyone wishes to contribute), any suggestions for a name for this imbecile house jock?
https://tinyurl.com/ut3bhpr
@stuart mctavish
Because you can’t resign your seat as an MP easily, they have the system tied up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resignation_from_the_British_House_of_Commons
32years SNP voter, never again. The SNP is no longer a nationalist party, from escaping an elitist British Parliament to selling Scotland to the anti democratic EU bureaucrats. Their aim is not Independence for Scots but rather globalist gold for themselves. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
What a disgrace Nicola Sturgeon is. What an utter fraud and charlatan. She may as well have stood today and said to the world, ‘London can do what the f*** it wants to Scotland because I and my husband are a couple of fearties who are making a right good living out of all this’.
I truly despair. The whole world was watching, and out she trots the same bullsh*t as before.
What a joke. What an absolute freaking joke.
“It is clear that you need a break, Stu.
Veiled hints from unnamed senior SNP figures, and the ‘J’Accuse’ hinted at in April in the wake of the Salmond Trial leading to, presumably Sturgeon’s fall from grace and sacking, really is beneath you.
Enjoy your sabbatical.
You made the Herald’s day, btw; some may consider that feat as ‘treachery’.
See my receptionist on the way out and make an appointment for early Spring. Keep taking the tablets.”
Fuck off, Jack.
Time to stop playing by their rules. Stop demanding another referendum, we did not have one to join the union, why should we need one to leave it??. They would only rig it just like they did the last. As for that toom tabard sturgeon, When our cause needs a William Wallace, we got fuckin wullie winkie!.
The SNP. For London’s gold they are bought and sold, such a parcel of rogues in a nation.
Talking about you, Mr.Blackford. Fearties, the whole lot of you.
Surely if we (the sovereign people of Scotland) call a referendum, who outside our elected government can set the rules etc? example re: what percentage turnout is acceptable or not.
Is it not a case of our ball, our game, our rules?
Now piss off and mind your own business.
Pete,
We can believe old Bojo and his fascist party then?
Thank goodness he will be writing that weekly check
Of £350 Million to the NHS.
Thank goodness the Tory promise of wiping out uk debt within 5 years of the
2010 election actually happens after 10 years of austerity.
What a relief the UK debt clock of £2.3 Trillion and racing just needs a new battery.
We must have the promised most powerful devolved parliament in the world and
The Tories are only bluffing about removing 24 of our most powerful devolved departments
The ship yards promised 13 new major ships are just confused about the small boats they are building being big enough to call a ship.
The 3,000 Scottish HMRC jobs promised to remain here but you just need to travel to Croydon to reach the office.
Peterhead must be booming with the £1 Billion Pound Carbon Capture facility promised 6 years ago
More than 50,000 retails jobs have already been lost since this Brexit shit came about.
10’s thousands of banking and finance jobs have gone.
10’s Thousands of local authority jobs have been axed.
That’s way over 100,000 Pete and I’m sure Bojo can double that in no time.
There will be no deal in 10 moths with the EU.
They will sell everything they can to Trumpland
and Pete will be happy to doff his cap to the Tory elite to keep his Zero hours contract.
China will getting their Sweat Shop products from the UK as manufacturing jobs over there pay better.
What NS said today was NOT what I wanted to hear – but Stu has made this ALL ABOUT HIM !
Throwing a tantrum and flouncing off the stage like the Prima Donna he has always been .
As you are F*cking off for a couple of months , I take it that you will not be having a crowdfunder to finance this break ?
Don’t forget the factor 50 !
Great post, Rev, and have a great break.
Today marks the end for me. I’m 70 years old, and now I know I will never live to see an independent Scotland. I have lived in England for 45 years, and dreamt of returning to an independent Scotland for all those years. However I will not return to a colony. I have waited and waited, but that’s it, the dream is over for me. I’m off to Italy, to my wife’s homeland.
England is now completely unbearable for anyone who is not English, and who can’t put up with their “sponging Jock” type of “humour”, which has gone into overdrive since 2016. Never mind the overt racism which my wife has to put up with. I dearly wish I could renounce British citizenship and shove their blue (black) passport up their collective Unionist backsides, but I’ll just have to make do with burning it once I get Italian citizenship. That will give me some pleasure, at least.
I dearly hope that a younger generation can stick it out and achieve independence. I wish them well. I advise them to either create a new vehicle for Independence, or engineer a total “ridd oot” of the careerists and entryists at the top of the SNP. The current SNP leadership clearly have no genuine interest in Independence, I’m sorry to say.
But anyway, my race is run, ending in defeat and ignominy. Thanks Nicola. I have never in my life felt so let down, this somehow feels worse than 2014.
Robert Knight at 12:14
“The opportunity to do so (build a majority for independence) in the face of a Tory Brexit has been squandered, not by Yes, but by the SNP under the stewardship of NS.”
Let’s assume you are correct – i.e. that the reason we don’t have a clear and consistent majority for independence is all down to Nicola Sturgeon. Whatever the reasons and whoever we blame for this state of affairs, the fact remains that there is not a clear and consistent majority. And that means, recognising the sovereignty of the Scottish people, that independence should not happen. The only way independence can be justified is if most people support it.
Personally I think we are close. All we need is 5% of the voting public to switch from “No” to “Yes” – as long as we can hold on to all current independence supporters – and we will have a 55/45 majority.
So what is the best way to make that happen? Attack the leader of the main independence supporting party? Split the independence movement? If you want to see how successful split political organisations are, just look at Labour over the last few years.
No, the way to build the majority we need is to get behind Nicola Sturgeon on her primary policy of achieving independence. That doesn’t mean we have to support her on everything – I certainly don’t. But if we attack her we are giving succour to the unionists who will just love it.
As for your views on the international community, I agree that the world has been disappointing in its response to the Chagos Islands issue, the Crimea, Catalonia and many others. The reason is that the price of intervention is not justified by the reward. But I suspect the EU would be quite keen to support Scottish independence if a clear majority of Scots were in favour. Fishing, Oil and putting one over Boris are the reasons that immediately spring to mind. Meanwhile Boris will be trying to do his deals against that background. The irony is that Boris, far from making the UK “independent” has actually made the UK vulnerable to foreign influence in a way it would never have been as a full EU member state. So the views of the international community will matter in our struggle for independence. But before that, we need to preserve and build on the support that already exists at home.
Albaman….1249hrs…..I agree with you
Westminster would love it if Scotland just decided to go ahead and have a Scottish independence referendum without their agreement
They would say we are undemocratic happy to elect MPs to Westminster but unprincipled and unwilling to abide by the law
They would find judges to decide a referendum without Westminster’s agreement unlawful
Scotland would declare independence if a majority voted for it in a referendum
What else could it do
Even if britnats boycotted it
Westminster would then send in armed forces to shut down the Scottish Parliament
And you would have civil war
Make no mistake about it
This is what would happen
It’s what Westminster have been doing for centuries they are well practiced
The Scottish government know this
They were after all a part of it for a long time
I understand the deflated feelings the chest out ready for battle anger of Scottish independence supporters I feel it too
But I can tell you now having lived through 22 years of travelling the world as the son of a soldier in the British army the Westminster government have already planned their response to civil disobedience in Scotland or the implementation of Scottish independence referendum that does not have Westminster’s agreement
The army are ready to go at short notice
Remember back to the threats Westminster gave to Spain when they said they were going to take back control of the waters around Gibraltar following the brexit result when 99% of people in Gibraltar voted to remain in the EU
They talked of blowing up ships and ramming ships and deploying more military forces in Gibraltar
1964 ..check out the history of Malta independence , not that long ago ,Westminster sent troops in and took control of everything other countries looked on but did nothing
Westminster have a history of killing
They killed Maltese people the British forces shot them in the street , unarmed civilians
Overwhelming support is the way forward
It’s tricky for SNP because 2,001.926 people voted against Scottish independence in 2014
500,000 of them were English people who will always vote for mother England of course they will who can blame them
250,000 were people from overseas who have a British passport and British citizenship given to them by the British government they won’t bite the hand that feeds them
Most EU citizens would probably vote for Scottish independence this time round but that still means three quarter of a million NON SCOTTISH people will vote NO and they will never change their mind no matter what SNP or Scottish government does or how bad Westminster is to Scotland
That means we are left with a million and a quarter of people who voted NO in 2014 who could be persuaded that a YES vote is best next time around
In the recent general election SNP got a million and a quarter votes
Tories Labour Lib Dem’s got 1.4 million vote between them
But there were almost a million votes missing compared to the 3.6 million voters in the 2014 indyref
It can be done
Millsy says:
31 January, 2020 at 3:58 pm
“What NS said today was NOT what I wanted to hear – but Stu has made this ALL ABOUT HIM !”
When the authors of the top two political blogs in Scotland (Wings & Craig Murray) are saying exactly the same thing – and even non-entities like me have heard some of the things we’re not legally allowed to discuss then throw your mud all you like because something stinks at the top of the SNP.
You can try & make it personal all you like but its not going to fly.
For a start where’s the “ring-fenced” money for an indy campaign Mr Murrell/Ms Sturgeon? There would appear to be a de-facto case of fraud and/or theft to answer there don’t you think?
That’s before we get onto the really murky shite which has been alluded to by many other people but is sub-judice.
Go on SNP loyalists – throw your mud & lets see where it sticks because I KNOW you’re not going to like the results….
I wonder what all the EU nationals in Scotland feel today after all the fine words and rhetoric. It turns out they are just collateral damage, honesty from the onset would at least been honourable.
Alison Thewliss MSP has tweeted a photie of herself and Sturgeon at the January meeting of the Pollokshields Fireworks Stakeholders Group this afernoon, as they reviewed Bonfire Night.
Sturgeon should have lit a bonfire and had a fireworks display this morning in her speech instead.
Neale Hanvey:
Step Forward.
Be the first YES MP. Invite your SNP MP colleagues to join you in forming an indy party independent of the SNP.
A party that has NOTHING to do with colonial administration.
Would you listen to yourselves!
Keep it together,guys-any britnat reading our reactions
will be smirking.
It WILL happen-we just have to have a united front.
We were all hoping for more on today of all days but let’s take a deep breath
and think of how far we’ve come in relatively little time.
Well just listened to the speach and she did not mention asking for boris’s permission
The BBC lieing again
She talked about agreement and legally binding and recognisable
BBC a disgrace again
“We stood on a mandate of asking the people of Scotland to reject Brexit – that we don’t want to be taken out of the European Union against our will” said Blackford.
That’s worked out well!
“the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs.”
Looks like the Current Scottish Government are not suited to our current needs!
So a couple of thoughts on what’s happening:
1. Unfortunately the economic damage of Brexit must be allowed to bite so the ‘I’m all right Jocks and Jills’ come over to YES
2. The fallout from the AS trial will irrevocably damage NS and anything she has started (so wait until the dust settles and new SNP leader leads the charge)
Whoever (LE?) has what on NS it must be big!!
In the end though we have to keep fighting for Indy.
Because WE are SOVEREIGN
NOT Westminster (so fuck an S30) that’s too timid
NOT The SNP (who appear to be doing with IndyRef2 what Labour did with Home Rule)
NOT NS (she is a Sovereign Scot like you and I but not Sovereign Over us Scots)
WE ARE SOVEREIGN
And when a majority of us say YES then our country will be free again.
NS should realise a S30 is the political equivalent today that Neville Chamberlains ‘scrap of paper’ was in 1939.
Unfortunately like the International Brigades of the Spanish Civil War the sensible amongst us YESSERs tried to save Scotland from the One Nation Tory Fascism in 2014 before it properly took hold but to no avail.
Now BoJos Tories will ensure ‘the war’ will come into the homes and directly affect those who were too busy, not interested or thought politics was boring or didn’t affect them.
It need not have been this way but we have to play the hand we’ve been dealt (and bend the rules to breaking point)!
Despite all our rage, we’re still just rats in this UK cage!
Harness the anger.
Use it to our benefit
And if history shows NS had a ‘sofa cabinet’ of the woke in a similar vein to BLiar, Broon and Straw then so be it.
History remembers the victors and villains.
Let us be victorious (with or without NS).
I see that SNP MPs are going with the 60% support for indy before they’d move. Wonder how long before that is the target for any future ref result. Looks as though the SNP have learnt nothing from spouting off nonsense for the unionists to pick up as policy.
I think the only way I might get through this next year. Is to somehow blank out what has just happened. That I am no longer an EU citizen!
Like Stu. There is a feeling of utter hopelessness. Scotland is being side-lined, and our elected government are letting it happen. There are going to be some very dark days ahead my friends.
I think we all need a break from the day to day Twitter wars. I will feel worse tomorrow morning when some smiling BBC presenter tries to make light of what the UK has just done to us all.
Can MSPs resign from the SNP and still hold their seats as members of eg a YES Party?
Have any of them got the cojones?
jfngw @3.45 – shame,
Wouldn’t carry the same delegated authority from the electorate but perhaps it would be enough if they simply crossed the floor to join Neale Hanvey.
The Novira virus is big news. But there is a far bigger ‘virus’ which is kept out of the headlines – lying.
It has badly infected, nay, poisoned the relationship between Scotland and England and, arguably, is the biggest single obstacle to Scottish Independence.
From Ian Dunt in politics.co.uk
https://mailchi.mp/politics/week-in-reviewthe-end-of-the-dream-the-start-of-the-resistance?e=d73254f154
“We are living in a world in which truth is a devastated property. That’s often the result of hermetically-sealed tribal identity groups online and the malicious impact of hostile actors, like Putin’s Russia. But it is also because the government we live under is defined by falsehood.
Dominic Cummings, the power behind the throne, won a referendum on the basis of conscious deception. He conducts his relations with the press through the manipulation of reality. The prime minister is an inveterate liar. He lies as easily as he breathes. If we do not keep a firm grip on objective fact, they will prise it from our grasp completely. And then it will become impossible to scrutinise the government at all.”
keep the heid everybody – poll is just over 50% – the need is to carefully win over the doubters – and on balance helpful if Stu Farage quits
A
.
Stuart,
Your words today are so sad to read.
On 17th January 2020 you wrote a first class thesis on the risk that Hubris plays in respect of the SNP…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/hubris-a-warning-from-history/
I read all the BTL comments. Very few people seemed to understand the point you were making.
May I put this simply: when I joined and became one of those second-class SNP members who were tolerated by the old guard and required just to “lend” our vote the SNP (and shut up), I now realise Scotland has been sold out by the current McWoke brigade at Bute House for £1,200,000 “Short Money” each and every year. Plus all the SNP MP + MSP salaries and expenses of a dissapointing crop of career politicians and tame WESTMINSTER HOUSE-JOCKS.
I will never vote Labour again.
Times up. I am unlikely to vote SNP ever again either. They got my last vote on 12th December 2019.
It feels morally wrong, but I may never vote again. And all those people died so we could get the vote.
But now? Really? What’s the point?
Stuart, you are right in everything you write here.
We have been betrayed.
https://tinyurl.com/Labour-Hubris-and-SNP-Lessons
@stuart mctavish & Tony Hay
Yes MSP’s can change parties without resigning, even list ones.
Agreed MP’s have no requirement to abide by the party they were elected to. Neale Harvey could form a SIP party with the objective to declare independence with majority of Scottish MP’s, any SNP so minded could then cross the floor to join this party could do so.
It is very telling that you were able to publish this very lengthy article so soon after the FM’s speech. It was presumably that easy to predict almost everything she was going to say. Sad!
The more cynical might think this will enable a schism so that there are 2 Indy Supporting Parties for future Holyrood elections in Scotland to end the BritNat Hegemony!!
😉
@stuart mctavish
Sorry my sentence got a bit mangled at the end but I think you will get the point.
Andrew @ 4:40…
Irrespective of your age, if the current ‘pace’ is maintained by the existing SNP Politburo, nobody contributing to this BTL will live to see an Independent Scotland.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating another Indy party, just a change of leadership and direction on the part of the SNP – for obvious reasons.
Have a good break Stu but be sure and come back for we need you more than ever. We don’t agree on everything but you’re vital to #Indy. Rest up, enjoy yourself for a bit and I’m sure you’ll be rarin to go again in a couple of months.
jfngw- Excellent,
Although that does raise the question whether it might be best to do that at 10.59 pm when the (Scottish) people are still nominally sovereign, or at 11.01 pm when sovereignty has been nominally transferred to their MPs (courtesy of an EU in which they are no longer citizens)
The problem with a Referendum in 2020, 2121, 2022 or whenever, is that unless Scotland addresses it’s Constitutional deficit, the vote isn’t attached or rooted to any sovereignty. It’s at best ‘advisory’, but in effect, little more than an opinion poll because nobody is obliged to accept the result.
The problem with waiting for the deprivations of Brexit to fuel discontent in the Union is that discontent can just as easily spawn disillusionment and despair as it can fuel a demand for Indy, and people lose the will to live, nevermind vote.
Furthermore, even supposing the beastliness of Brexit somehow swelled support for Indy to 90%, you might feel confident about winning a referendum emphatically, but still be hamstrung by the “disputed” sovereignty of the vote and whether it can be dismissed as advisory or non binding.
Westminster is so bold in its perceived Parliamentary Sovereignty that it believes it not only can dispute or ignore the result of a referendum, but even deny authority for it even to take place.
Whichever direction you approach Independence from, sooner or later, there is ALWAYS the Constitutional question waiting for you and needing to be answered, “whose” claim is sovereign?
Given that this question must be confronted sooner or later, (and answered in Scotland’s favour), I am utterly bewildered why these Constitutional legal niceties have not been addressed a long time ago.
All roads lead to Sovereignty. So why do we explore very cul de sac and side road when there’s a three lane motorway which leads us right to it?
@stuart mctavish
I don’t believe they could do it that quickly, there are procedures for creating a party.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/intro-registration-rp.pdf
Been mulling all day.
Who is the alternative?
Starting from zero? we are fucked.
Splitting the Indy Vote? we are fucked.
If Scots ever want to become independent, they’ll have to learn to stop putting their personal politics above the rule-of-law.
The British constitution no longer holds moral authority over Scotland, thanks to Brexit and subsequent gerrymandering of the constitution, so the British constitution no longer holds legal force over Scotland.
Natural Law, Legal Positivism, The Morality of Law Dworkin’s “Third Theory of Law” Legal Realism and Critical Legal Studies
http://www.jus.unitn.it/users/patterson/course/topics/materiale/analyticjurissupplemental.pdf
Politicians can only set the conditions for self-determination, if they are so minded, but it is up to us to achieve it. The clue is in the language used to describe our goal, i.e. self-determination.
The Legal Doctrines of the Rule of Law
and the Legal State (Rechtsstaat)
https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007%2F978-3-319-05585-5
Gary45% says:
31 January, 2020 at 5:22 pm
“Been mulling all day.
Who is the alternative?”
Same as Labour used to say and look at what happened to them since 2010.
If the SNP think the same (and they do at leadership/management level) then the same will happen to them.
Probably a lot faster than they expect – starting in 2021 where a lot of people simply won’t turn out for them. They won’t vote for anyone else – yet – but they won’t turn out for the SNP.
Even pre-Johnson, Holyrood could’ve been shut down at any time. Wullie The Rennie pointed this out, almost as a quip, during radio interview, exposing the mind-set of Yoon politicos who have always known as much and therefore treat the whole SP as a lucrative joke.
But Johnson is not the sort to allow the facade of devolution to cloud his priorities. If the SG becomes enough of an annoyance we can be sure that he *will* have it shut down, no questions asked, no ‘consultations’ required.
So why the actual fuck should he consider another request for a referendum? Why? It makes no sense at all. He will give NS a gold standard two-fingered salute each and every time for the foreseeable, and why shouldn’t he?
I understand why some, here and elsewhere, try to be positive, present what happened this morning in the best possible light etc. In all the time spent here over the years I’ve tried to avoid saying anything negative about pro-indy politicians. But this, today, is different. Purporting to be ‘positive’ after that shameful performance this morning is damaging and delusional.
We were warned. Well-warned. By Rev, by CM, Peter Bell and others. They’ve been taking dog’s abuse for months and are due apologies from a great many folk who’ve been hanging onto the ‘trust Nicola’ mantra like some kind of fucking lifebelt. And anyone claiming some kind of moral high ground by pontificating about ‘solidarity’ and ‘keeping the faith’ – as if we somehow lose such attributes by refusing to support outright frauds and liars – can get to actual fuck and keep right on going.
Will raise a glass or two to you all, and to absent Wingers, as 11.00 pm approaches.
😉
All hope for Scotland will then wither in Brexitania, and Scotland will perish as a nation.
bbc radio scotland spent 10 mins gushing about a brexit leaver sunderland
bbc get brexit – on a free leash
Sorry, that was meant to follow Vestas. Without recourse to international human rights law, Scotland has no democratic route to constitutional or social justice.
FM should of played fast & furious 9(scotland)trailer (out tonight)
jfngw @17:18
I looked at the link, the summary says “If you are thinking about setting up a political party, you may need to register with us.” (my bold). The usual fudge.
Ian Brotherhood: “I’ve tried to avoid saying anything negative about pro-indy politicians. But this, today, is different.”
Ditto on both.
Imagine people in the Netherlands were ruled by Germany. German nuclear subs just outside Amsterdam, etc. Then the Netherlands sits there meekly shrugging its shoulders as some German equivalent of Generalissimo Johnson drags them out of the EU against their will. The world looks on in horror as the German Bundestag plays out the same endless fiasco we’ve seen for years in the HoC.
But wait! The leader of the Netherlands’ National Party has a big announcement to make! An announcement everybody’s been waiting three and half years for.
Then the leader says what NS said today.
Imagine how we’d view the people of the Netherlands. Picture them roaring out ‘Flower of the Netherlands’ at sports stadiums. They’d be even more of an international joke than the Germans, and deservedly so.
The way things stand, only a severe Brexit collapse can get that Yes vote up now. But even if that happens, will we have the party leadership to take advantage?
Right. Here’s my plan for what it’s worth and if anybody actually gives a shit any more………..
AUOB should take a leaf out of the Jarrow Marchers and take their 80,000 marchers and march from Edinburgh to Westminster. The UK and the rest of the World could NOT ignore that or put their usual spin on things.
Problem is, that takes commitment, which seems to be lacking within the independence scene but then, what can you expect when the SNP ‘leadership’ are showing such apathy for independence themselves.
No but seriously, that has to be worth a think. They’d probably get support for Scottish independence from people in England too as they marched through, just to get rid of the freeloading sweaty socks.
thanks Breeks (2.27), manandboy (2.29), Daisy Walker (2.42) and Jockanese Wind Talker (4.31) for the fiery posts. They raise the spirits.
“One need not hope in order to undertake, nor succeed in order to persevere. “ (William the Silent) so en avant mes braves.
Ian Brotherhood says:
31 January, 2020 at 5:36 pm
“And anyone claiming some kind of moral high ground by pontificating about ‘solidarity’ and ‘keeping the faith’ – as if we somehow lose such attributes by refusing to support outright frauds and liars – can get to actual fuck and keep right on going.”
Spot on.
Bravo Ian 5.36
Ian Brotherhood@5.36
I’ve mentioned “keeping the faith” many times before today, at the moment it seems like every Indy supporter myself included, feels rightly cheated, angry and the feeling of being taken for a mug. I had a wee blether with some Indy minded folk this afternoon, most have no idea what the likes of WoS is, there are just punters on the street, many are wondering what the fuss is, are they right or wrong?
When I have fucked right off to where I am fucking off to, and then fuck off some more, I’ll still be an Indy supporter like you.(We cannot let this split the Indy vote).
The shit really hit the fan this morning, one mans shite is another mans.. well shite I suppose.
Where do we go from here? because, I have no fucking idea.
Vestas@5.33
I hope they don’t go down that road, although you might be right.
Enjoy your break Stu, well deserved.
All I’ll add, is that Politics, like Nature, abhors a vacuum.
I’m curious about the form the new Independence political party will take.
I’ll be truffling around to find the germinating shoots, but I reckon you’ll be all over the rumours before me – as ever, I’ll probably read about it first on Wings.
“Aut viam inveniemus aut faciemus”
@jfngw-shame
2 concerns with waiting too many minutes after 11pm might become:
a) Scotland will have left EU against its sovereign will.
b) Theirs will not be the sovereignty they were elected for.
Mist….
“AUOB should take a leaf out of the Jarrow Marchers and take their 80,000 marchers and march from Edinburgh to Westminster.”
Forgive me, what an utter, utter, utter waste of time!
Our problem doesn’t reside in No.10 Downing Street…
Our problem resides closer to home. In Bute House, Charlotte Square to be precise.
AOUB should put 80,000 in Charlotte Square and remind someone why they’re there and, just as importantly, who put them there.
I feel your pain and I too will raise a fair few glasses to all Sovereign Scots (Wingers or not, absent or not) and to commiserate the loss of our EU Citizenship @ Ian Brotherhood says at 5:36 pm
I will also redouble my efforts to free my country from colonial oppression.
Just because the General has fucked up doesn’t mean the foot soldiers can’t win the battle!
Hope you continue to fight the good fight IB.
CameronB Brodie says:
31 January, 2020 at 5:39 pm
“Sorry, that was meant to follow Vestas. Without recourse to international human rights law, Scotland has no democratic route to constitutional or social justice.”
There is close to no democratic route to self-determination for Scotland now.
Think any country cares? They don’t because its not any sort of visible political issue. It will continue to not be an issue while the current SNP leadership is there. It might still not be an issue once they’re gone but maybe someone might want to TRY?
The UK is likely to lose its permanent seat on the Security Council in the next few years so there goes all their political “clout” and all thats left is money laundering – there’s nothing else England has which anyone wants. That’s very unlikely to advance independence in our lifetimes (40 years+).
I think the open goal of indyref2 is gone now, regardless of subsequent events.
We’ll see what we see but clearly the Sturgeon/Murrell SNP is dead in the water – even if they don’t see it yet.
@ robertknight
I already suggested that here a couple of times but most people thought it was a crap idea but now that there’s going to be a definite material change in circumstances at 11pm tonight, then the idea might start to be taken more seriously.
80,000 marchers can’t be ignored but the thing is, is AUOB all talk and no action like the SNP too? Having a nice day out and filling the pubs afterwards is one thing, but direct action and commitment is a different ball game altogether and they probably don’t have the nerve for it.
Manny Singh would have done it though, without a doubt.
Cheer up people, Joann’s on the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbYnuYBlU8c
Really fed up this morning so delayed looking in here for a while.
It’s bitterly ironical that what the Yoons couldn’t do on 19/9/14, the SNP leadership has managed today. I quite understand Stu’s decision about walking away for a while and hope he returns all the stronger.
Amongst many others, the contributions of Breeks, Stoker, JWT and Ian B have offered some solace on a dark day.
A Yes campaign independent of the party will have to somehow coalesce. How do we direct such a movement?
With apologies and a nod to HST.
“Strange memories on this nervous night in Auld Reekie. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era—the kind of peak that never comes again. Scotia in the end years was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run . . . but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant. . . .
History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of “history” it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time—and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.
My central memory of that time seems to hang on one or five or maybe forty nights – or very early mornings – when I would awaken in a dumbstruck haze and wonder when the spider would make the leap of faith; when that “thank fuck” hold might finally extricate us from the abyss. Where art thou brave warrior? O redeemer of faith. Tied tightly in a contrived wrangle and squeezed ticht by the prodigy fair socht by mony. Take us tae yon place where folk are just as high and wild as we are. Away from that sordid sodomy of Crown and counsel..
But there was madness in every direction. If not across borders then up in the skies and in that white saltire that seared the deep blue yonder. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .
All we had to do was say “yes”.
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. These days, our warriors wear skirts not kilts. Our energy would simply prevail. We have been ignored for too long; our voices fall only on deaf ears. Yet we had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
Or so we thought.
So now, less than six years later, you can go up Salisbury Crags and look North West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. Taking our dreams and our hopes.
For the want of caution and the loss of conviction.”
P.S. Meant to say, for those SNP faithful who arrogantly say (as Labour used to), “Who else are you going to vote for?” the simple answer is, as Vestas said, MANY WON’T VOTE AT ALL next time, which puts the 2021 Holyrood elections in peril.
If Holyrood is lost, bye bye any chance of independence.
Got it, Poindexters?
I see the toys are still being thrown out of the pram, Britnats are lapping it up, pigs rolling in shit couldnt be happier. Of course they aren’t really bothered about what Nicola did or didnt say, they are just happy that you lot are crying into your beer.
What Nicola said today, the story she told today, went round the world faster than even Britnat lies. Just think about that for a monent.
Managed approx. 2 mins of “the speech” this morning and heard “hope” and something along the lines of “more work to do” and that was enough o’ that pish.
Had to nip out anyway to help elderly neighbour to attend a hospital appointment. She’s in her 80s and for Indy and said “What’s the point in the First Minister continually asking for a Section 30 only to be denied?”, I rolled my eyes and wondered how it was that this lady in her 80s that doesn’t use internet or watch much telly gets it when so many others don’t.
Lots of nice EU nurses working in the hospital that I thanked for their efforts and apologised for the EU situation, I considered asking if they would adopt me so we could make a run for it and get out of this hellhole. lol
On the upside there’s now two cases of the corona virus in the UnUnited Kingdom so bring on the epidemic in the hope that it wipes out every last feckless or unfortunate human on these islands.
C’mon the animals!*
* Did I mention I now Self ID as a Scottish Wildcat…
Will mull things over during next few days and also see if any other “events” transpire.
May put some thoughts down if I feel they are worth making.
Thanks Stu for your considerable efforts over the years in providing the Wings platform. With so many articles and the btl the commentary by so many folks of all views, it’s been both an educational and entertaining experience for which I am hugely appreciative.
Enjoy your well earned break.
@Gary45% (6.07) –
Hope you don’t think I was having a go at you. I wasn’t, and apologise if it came across that way.
The people I’m thinking of are maintaining that they are ‘in the loop’, that they have insider knowledge which qualifies them to tell the rest of us to keep the heid.
Part of the reason I’m so angry is the mildly schoolmarmish tone of the FM when she refers to ‘they’ (i.e. frustrated indy supporters) as if we’re not *quite* the kind of supporters she would prefer and it’s becoming rather an annoyance, having to explain the same thing to us over and over again. (Not that she seemed quite so fussy when commandeering the Hope Over Fear rally when it provided a timely campaigning opportunity.)
‘Keeping the faith’?
Aye, of course. I can’t imagine it’s possible to suddenly just ‘unbelieve’ something so important. But it’s certainly possible to take an instant scunner to someone when you realise that they’ve been lying to you, your family and friends, for years.
I concur with most if not all of the posters on here especially Ian and Stoker. I think we all knew deep down today would be d day and yet another flannel job and so it’s transpired. It’s just as bad as 19th September 2014. I feel it’s over for good. I’m not joking. Sturgeon can GTF.
So you thought we had problems? Chris Grey’s latest entry in the Brexit Blog, http://archive.is/hroTm, indicates there’s a whole world of pain (physical and existential) coming for the UK.
Seems likes there’s an immense amount of opportunity to be exploited – it’s just a question of how.
why would senior snp politicians want to wait for polls showing 60% support.
It would be even more certain in that case that Boris would reject a request for a section 30.
The SNP have become like all the rest…troughers.
Sturgeon, Russell, Blackford and Swinney should resign immediately.
there will be no mandate in 2021. They have had their final chance. Sturgeon’s statement was pathetic.
Jesus I wish I could rewind today and start it all at the beginning and change pretty much everything.
Even though there is outrage nearly everywhere I look, from the SNP it’s as if the outrage is invisible to them.
What is going on here? Are there SNP folks having extended phone calls screaming “what do we do? What do we do?” Are there candles burning late into the night in Bute House trying to salvage something from this train wreck? Or are they popping corks out wine bottles and patting themselves on the back for a difficult job well done? I have no… inkling. The antenna are silent. My world is different to theirs.
I never thought in a million years the story of the night on the day Scotland was involuntarily dragged out of Europe would actually be the story of us voluntarily leaving Europe with our tail between our legs.
I honest to God thought we’d fight it, I never, ever thought we’d do nothing.
@Tinto Chief
What I said was I would no longer vote at Westminster elections, by voting I am now legitimising their control over Scotland. Spoilt ballot papers winning the majority of seats sends a stronger message than sending SNP MP’s to waste their time in London.
Holyrood is another matter, it depends on what the independence options are.
I’m currently working/living outwith Scotland. I have the benefit of a second passport, and quite honestly, my disappointment with Nicola is at an all time high. From enthusiastic supporter, I have become highly suspicious and cynical. Rumors of highly placed MI5/moles seems to be even more evident, and my only doubt is exactly HOW HIGH these agents have progressed.
Thanks Stu for everything over the last several years. I hope we’re both wrong and IR2 somehow manages to come about this year or early 2021. But I have my doubts.
For my family’s sake, if nothing changes, we can make a home here. And although I will greatly miss my homeland, a Scotland under the Tories for the foreseeable future (I predict Tory governments for at least the next three elections) and the total mess that will occur due to the rapacious greed of the establishment 1%, does not provide any comfort.
Maybe a different, more assertive leader is needed now. As someone said (I paraphrase), “If you remove all democratic options for independence, you open the door to less peaceful means”.
Today has been a bad day for Scotland.
Yes there is a legal route to self-determination, and I suppose the SNP have to prove that British constitutional law in not the route to constitutional justice for Scotland. I hope that is their intention though, and that they do not place their trust in British constitutional practice, which lacks coherence and comparability with the doctrine of international human rights law. The queen just put her name to a gerrymandered re-interpretation of the the constitution just the other week.
Playing house rules against a stacked deck is the sign of a sucker, IMHO.
Sitting reading this in tears. I feel as bad tonight as I did on 19 September 2014. Now realise I’m never going to see Indy so that’s my input finished. No more standing on street stalls freezing my arse off. SNP have played me in the same way Labour did – empty promises. So I’m disenfranchised now and nowhere to go. Stuff em all.
Hackalumpoff
thanks for the link to Joanna Cherry this evening.
I feel wimp now for not making the effort to be there and be counted.
Pleased that the EU flag is still flying as it is all part of the ongoing campaign.
Joanna is an inspiration and makes tonight bearable.
Think of Bruce and the spider …. then I can continue.
I would definitely be up for an auob march direct to Bute House – when Sturgeon is in.
I see one solitary SNP MP has spoke out to demand a referendum without London’s agreement. Kudos to him. One of the few in the SNP at London who actually wants independence.
The rest of them? maybe they should just stay down in London – it seems to be to their liking.
Just like Labour. ‘who else are you going to vote for?’ NOBODY. SNP can GTF.
Cultural appropriation at large.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/18203249.brexit-party-meps-leave-parliament-shambolic-bagpipe-procession/
Simply disgusting, however shambolic.
Scotland truly is Europe’s third world.
Any truth in the rumour that the rugby’s being rebranded as Four Nations and a Couple of Colonies?
@hackalumpoff at 18.18: many thanks for the link to Joanna Cherry’s interview with Mark Austin, Sky News. It has lifted the gloom a little in my house!
I do think we need an advisory referendum now, especially whilst we still have EU voters here. We only needed 190,000 more Yes votes last time. I really do think that we have them in the bag already – but nothing except a vote will make the difference. Not asking people a question is a sure way to not get an answer!
I don’t understand the First Minister saying we need to “test questions with the Electoral Commission”.
@Rev: thank you for the years of work you have done on Scotland’s behalf. It has been phenomenal and the Wee Blue Book was a triumph. I am very sorry indeed for the troubles you have had because of your efforts and I hope very much indeed that you will come back restored after a break.
Meant to say Stu – enjoy your break and hope you find something less stressful to keep you occupied.
@Weechid at 6:49 pm
Aye, it feels rough as no doubt, but dinae be crying. Treat this as a moment which offers us ultra clarity and shows us defining characteristics into who and what our elected politicians are about.
We see them now.
@jfngw says:
`Yes MSP’s can change parties without resigning, even list ones.`
not saying i disagree but was trying to find confirmation that this was the case,
do you have a link to where you got this information,
ta.
Ian Brotherhood at 5.36pm
I honestly couldn’t put it more eloquently.
I feel totally fucked over by their total lack of understanding what we are seeing and that fucking speech today. Better keeping her mouth shut, blood boiling. I too will raise a glass tonight to absent friends and the good guys and gals on here, but mainly to my place pot tomorrow!
Listening to MP’s justifying leaving the EU is like listening to men in A&E explaining why their cock is stuck in the hover!
Trying to digest it all. I don’t think it’s time to ditch the SNP, quite the opposite. I think it’s time we took back the party from it’s current lot.
It is a member driven party after all. What a let down they have been. I was shouted down for saying she should go after the 2017 GE I think it was.
Sorry Nicola but you need to realise the failure you’re leadership has been ladened with and do the right thing.
It’s time to go!
A couple of points and observations.
The people on here saying “why have another referendum if we’re likely to lose it again”, firstly we won’t know unless we have one, secondly the SNPs mandate was to get us the referendum, not guarantee independence. Get us the referendum, we, the thousands of volunteers will do the rest.
We have Westminster refusing a referendum because we might win and the SNP not calling a referendum because we might lose. The bottom line is the elite (well paid) members from both ends of the political spectrum are denying us a vote. So much for the SNP election manifesto’s promise of standing up for “Scotland’s right to choose”. Win or lose, we deserve the right to make that decision, that’s what we voted for.
To the Indy supporters who still believe that Nicola “has it covered”, I’d say get some tablets to suppress your gullible gene then you’ll see things differently.
We don’t need no more referendum, we need to re-establish a respect for the rule-of-law. The British constitution has been thoroughly abused beyond the point of all recognition. Unless folk wake up to the level of illiberal-ism that Westminster is partaking in, Scotland will be under a state of perpetual Tory despotism before you can say Jack Flash. Remember, the only way Labour can gain power in Westminster, is by competing for Tory voters in England.
Ian Brotherhood@6.37
Ian, Absolutely no apology needed, we will never fall out, we are of the same beliefs. Its good to get things off our chests. The Indy movement we are “One Kin”, that is the beauty of it.
Indy will come.
The unionist STV news reporting via the Pons, that the Brexiteers were gathering in George Sq to celebrate Scotland being dragged out of the EU.
Looking at the GCC webcam of George Sq, I can’t see them.
Then again we can’t trust STV or ponsonby.
https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/webcam
Weechid @1849
I’ve just had a quick look at most of the Dutch news sites, and all I can find is four paragraphs in De Trouw.
Invisible barely fucking covers it.
Glasgow nuff said.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1223253853451063296
I was and am deeply disappointed today and I fully intended to cease my membership of the party and accept whatever fate Herr Johnson and his the Nazi party in England had in store for me, but I’ve spent today speaking to others and trawling around the Internet to see what others are thinking and after a good long think have decided to increase my donations to the party and stay the course because the people who are making the most noise about not getting what they want seem to be using a great deal of anger to do it while at the same time offering the solution of gloating and more anger
I don’t feel that helps with anything except making the other side full of confidence and hate us even more, and how do you convince somebody to join your side when you fill up the airwaves and internet with hatred of the people you want to understand and join your cause
So no new cards for me, I’ll play the hand I’ve got and if I win I can promise I won’t gloat about it I’ll just consider myself lucky and greatful to come out the other side better than I went in
Oh and good words from SNP MP Joanna Cherry QC on the subject was a help in that, because if an intelligent smart and cleverer woman than me who could earn three times as much by not being a MP can stick it out who am I to argue with her
Looks like a good turnout at Holyrood this evening the mood seemed buoyant as speakers allied the crowd.
Lets not lose hope, especially when more Scots want independence than don’t want it.
@Scot Finlayson
This was discussed a couple of years ago on Wings (BTL), then I was of the opinion that list MSP’s would need to resign but it was brought to my attention that those that had previously left a party did not need to resign. Once they have taken the oath there seems to be no way to remove them unless they resign, or break parliamentary rules.
The FPTP people are the same as WM, you are voting for the person not the party.
I don’t have the links or the names of the politicians, it was too long ago to remember the exact article. Maybe if the person that corrected me is still posting they will remember.
Well, I hadn’t visited this site for a while, and it’s become every bit as bad as I feared after Stu spat the dummy out when his brilliant “SNP 1&2” strategy of 2016 didn’t work like it was supposed to. Poor Stu!
Last year we had: “Why didn’t bad Nicola make made a deal with the Tories!?!?!”
Maybe because hard decades of work winning trust and support from long-established Labour voters would have been flushed down the toilet in the blink of an eye?
Maybe because this isn’t a computer game and life is more complicated? Because ripples and repercussions don’t just disappear when you switch off the laptop at the end of the game, but continue to impact on hearts and minds and lives far into the future?
Or, more cynically, because the seasoned SNP politicians calculated Theresa May couldn’t have kept enough of her rump government in line to deliver such an agreement, and that such a proposal was therefore lose/lose?
Yet again, oor Stu – the Scottish independence movement’s very own answer to Nigel Farage – insinuates everyone who doesn’t agree with him is a ("Tractor" - Ed), ("Quizmaster" - Ed), feartie or nest-featherer, while betraying no comprehension of the complexities of building and retaining support strong enough to make the leap of faith required to lead a fractious, frightened, complacent and often conservative population to such a monumental decision. Unlike Farage, however, his cause – my cause – doesn’t have the might of media barons, billionaires and oligarchs behind it. And if it did, frankly, independence wouldn’t be worth the vellum it was written on.
The bile these days from binary-brained Stu is as detached from reality and lacking in understanding of human complexity as his hateful Hillsborough harangues. And almost as disgusting.
I don’t agree with everything she says and does – I’ve never been an SNP member – but I rate Nicila Sturgeon as the most able, intelligent and effective politician in the UK, and the best person available to lead our movement.
I held Alex Salmond in similar esteem when he was leader, but effective as he was, he was a far more divisive figure. His time has passed though, make no mistake, whatever the outcome of his trial the Unionist media will ensure the shit sticks to Salmond, Sturgeon and the Scottish independence as a whole. No doubt that’ll be her fault too.
So much as we’d all love to get tore in to a referendum, it’s very likely we’ve only got one more shot at this in our lifetimes. James McFadden (much as I loved him) isn’t the model here, nor is the swagger of Jim Baxter or opportunism of Denis Law. We need the intelligence of Dalglish, the nimbleness of Jinky, the inspiration of Caesar, and the tactical guile of Jock Stein. That’s the level we need to play at to win the biggest prize – not just be remembered as 90-minute heroes who ultimately failed.
A bit of humility and self-reflection from you and some of your more fosm-mouthed supporters wouldn’t go amiss in all this but, hey, miracles are few and far between. Real achievement takes time.
@Dr Jim
It’s true a lot of us have vented frustration and anger today and may pull back from the outbursts once we have had time to reflect on things. I’ll probably reassess things again once I’ve calmed down.
Now that it is here, I do feel depressed and down about not being an EU citizen as well.
I don’t give any credence to this nationalist identity politics thing whether it is Scottish, British or European but looking at what we’ve happened up until this moment, I do think that Nicola Sturgeons comment about us Scots and Europe’s link of shared values holds relevance.
I do hope that anybody who supports Scotland’s right for democracy, regardless of whether it is simply for more powers or outright independence, shares any common ground with the links of Farage, Cummings or Johnson. However, you would think there is common ground with others of political views south of the border but as events have been seen, now that the SNP have served their purpose and of no further use to the Brexit debate, they are persona non grata, never to be seen on liberal-centre media again.
The simple fact is that we Scots will never be accepted unless we toe the party line unless it suits the liberal establishments agenda like what has been seen recently. Contrast this with Europe. Lets not kid ourselves, Europe is just a bigger Westminster as seen with events in Catalonia but given the acceptance of diversity among the continents regions, there is more of a chance of our countries views being accepted and above all respected as it does being part of the UK. Europe isn’t perfect but as an object of shared beliefs, values or collective/shared political viewpoints, it is far better that the UK with it’s rigid insularity and conformity.
While I have said I don’t go in for that identity thing, I have always politely corrected those who don’t know that I’m Scottish. Going forwards, I’m not sure that I will even waste my time.
Officially, we leave the EU tonight. For the next year we have trade negotiations and this will shape the relationship we will have with Europe. We hear all this talk from the British liberal centre that we can rejoin Europe at any time. However, will Europe have us back, collectively as the UK, if as expected the Cummings/Johnson party totally sours relations with them with their buccaneer/bully boy shenanigans that we will know they will take in the following months of negotiations? If us Scots want to take back our place in Europe, it may well have to be as an independent nation. Politicians aren’t going to deliver that for us, we will have to do that ourselves.
The National has posted a poll on Twitter:
‘What did you make of Nicola Sturgeon’s #indyref2 update today?’
I was happy 39.2%
I wasn’t happy 38.2%
I’m not sure 22.6%
957 votes cast so far, 19 hours to go.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1223260865601949699
We could have voted for our independence in 2014 – WE DIDN’T.
I am an ardent independence supported but Scotland, or rather its people, are to blame for our current predicament. There is no point blaming Sturgeon or any other individual.
The Scots have shown themselves…ourselves…to be politically apathetic. The polls haven’t shifted in five years (despite the numerous undemocratic indignities heaped in us) because the majority of Scottish people don’t appear to care.
But then, why would they when there is no effective Scottish media telling them anything approaching the truth? Scotland is not capable of having an argument with itself because the bulk of our media is run from outwith Scotland and is Unionist in its outlook.
Devolution was (and remains) a political stitch-up to RETAIN power, not to concede it. That is why Scotland has no control over its own media and it is why the “Section 30 Order” exists. No rational PM in London would grant it!
What is needed now is a mass revolt of the population – a popular uprising. But that doesn’t look likely, does it? We seem to be content to be dependent – comfortable and kept by the Union – resentful and embittered but ultimately able to blame nasty old England for our predicament.
It’s pathetic. A parcel of rogues in a nation, indeed.
We had our chance in 2014 and WE blew it. Sturgeon can’t fix that. The Devolution settlement has her hands tied. Politics won’t fix this…
I’ll leave the rest to your own dark imaginings.
I was looking for a black swan today, got a lame duck.
@Dr Ew,
You go to hell.
Dr Ew @ 31 January, 2020 at 7:36 pm
I don’t like or accept quite a few of what the Rev has said recently but I do respect the dedication and effort he had put in for Scottish democracy as well as the grief he has suffered that any normal person should never be expected to experience.
I don’t agree with him on a lot of things but I continue to lurk on his site and occasionally post on it because he is as valuable to the cause as to any politician out there.
Have a good break, Rev, and thanks for all your hard work and enduring defiance of emperors wearing no clothes.
SNP should have stood by those people who were unjustly attacked, rather than declaring them unpersons.
SNP should at least have attempted a stand-off with Westminster over its enforced hostile environment in Scotland. And over drug recovery rooms.
The fact they did not and just said please, please keep kicking me, oh colonial masters, now looks like a miserable precursor of what we have witnessed today (despite Blackford and others repeatedly insisting that Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against her will. Mere empty rhetoric.)
Too timid by far. And all predicted by Wings. This feels like September 19 2014 multiplied a hundredfold.
Dr Ew
Do you respect constitutional law and the principle of universal human rights?
Just tried watching the interview with Joanna Cherry and the moment I heard the phrase “Once in a generation” I had to switch off, I can’t fucking stand it anymore.
Seriously the SNP should instruct every member being interviewed the moment they hear that term leveled at them they cut the interview there and then no explanations just fucking end it, and the next time it’s used in the HOC they should walk out and never return.
@Dr Ew,
You really do type a load of bollocks. Just a pity this site doesn’t have a block button like twitter.
@Greame
I thought Joanna Cherry handled that comment well, she made it plain it was not SNP policy but just the opinion of individuals during the heat of a campaign. If anyone can present a SNP manifesto with once in a generation vote in it I will accept it.
@ meg merrilees 31 January, 2020 at 6:52 pm
“Think of Bruce and the spider …. then I can continue.”
Great Meg, everyone, get off your knees, we can do this.
Think back to 19th September 2014 and how you felt then. If that was a 10 on the despair scale what is you score today ? I’m at 6, what is your’s ?
Will I still vote YES? too effing right.
Enjoy your Hols Rev Stu.
Clydebuilt @2:33,
I fully agree with you, what did Jim Sillers say long ago ?, ” 90 minutes patriots “, with this talk of not bothering to even vote, and turning in your S.N.P. membership, ach, 90 minutes indeed, I’m approaching my 60th year when I decided that the only way for Scotland was independence, (aye, lum older than 60 yrs).
This situation is nothing new for Whitehall/Westminster/and the Conservative, they have dealt with “independence ” demands from a multitude of satellite country’s, one of the reasons they are keeping relatively quiet, is because they are awaiting the Scottish Government (S.N.P.) to make a mistake in their quest fro a referendum, then it’ll be effectively bye,bye Holyrood .
Although it’s not a military campaign, we can learn from our past mistakes, not to do so, commits us to repeat them,
Take Culloden , the Clans were chasing shadows looking for the Government forces,even marching at night, so when they were eventually found, the Government forces were in a well fortified position, the Clansman then had to charge 1/4 mile (app) through nee high heather and gorse, so when they arrived, the one who were still alive that is, were absolutely buggered !!,
Same with the battle of Inverkeithing (actually Pitreavie) the Scottish army though Cromwell one was local to Stirling, only to find when they got there he was local ti Inverkeithing, naturally by the time the Scottish army marched all the way back, they, once again were buggered! Cromwell’ one easily won the day.
There those mistakes relevant today?, I believe they are inasmuch one must plan very carefully for any situation, and have the patience to watch the developments before committing to action, this is not a military operation, but a political one such as this one before us, is just as demanding.
Real Politik is a pain in the arse but Johnson sweeping into power in England was always going to cause a bump in the road. I think the man is an incompetent charlatan and the bump will turn into a road crash for the UK but it will take time. A hung parliament might have been better for us in the short term. In the longer term the anti Scottish buffoon may serve us much better.
I’m not saying there can’t be a referendum this year but I’m not sure it is a good idea. Holyrood needs time to negotiate after a successful vote. Timing is important. In the meantime patience is going to have to be a virtue.
I’m off to watch The Witcher* on Netflix and keep my powder dry until we have something to aim at. The SNP remain the only game in town and I think despite the frustration they will gain from Johnson’s failings. Of course they could win a majority in May 2021 and Johnson’s undemocratic credentials will come to the fore. From there the UK unravels (perhaps unpleasantly).
Let’s see what the year brings. Stu deserves a holiday, we probably all do. Scotland isn’t going away. This fight will continue.
*[The Witcher looked like it would be a GOTs rip off but it is surprisingly good fun.]
The SNP don’t seem to be very interested in independence. They have done very well out of Murdoch’s Sun promoting them but made almost no attempt to put a case for independence in 2014. That was their only realistic chance.
Campaigning to stop Brexit and Boris Johnson was incredibly arrogant and foolish for a party wanting to leave UK politics.
Best of luck.
@jfngw
Thanks for that you beat me to it, sometimes I despair.
@Graeme, she did what you wanted FFS, watch it again “without predjudice”
Graeme & jfngw
The once in a lifetime quote was an act of reconciliation by the SNP. It was the only thing they could do. The referendum wasn’t won. It was a really dirty campaign by Better together and people were talking about electoral fraud. What else could they do?
As mentioned in the clip, Joanna Cherry said that the UK that was promised in the 2014 isn’t the same as it is now. It isn’t just with Europe but with a whole lot of other broken promises made at the time by Westminster.
I do agree however that there needs to be harsher revoke whenever there this is brought up because it is annoying.
Some article!
So sadly correct.
Enjoy your break!
Hope for something to change, even if for no other reason than hope.
If there’s a reason to come back – we’ll see you then.
Heartfelt thanks for fighting so hard and so for so long.
In spirit of trying to keep our hopes alive of rejoining Europe, maybe we could change our unofficial national anthem to Scots Wha Hae as it is associated with the French Marche des soldats de Robert Bruce?
We gotta get out of this place.
@handandshrimp, the books have been out for years so totally not a GoT ripoff. What the show doesn’t explain very well is that the three main character arcs are not synchronous. The little girl is the only one in the current time, Geralt and Yennefer are actually flashbacks but they all sync up at the end of the season.
Stoker @ 11.10am, I fully agree – hit the over-comfortable snp hierarchy where it hurts – the wallet, while taking the YES movement to new heights, via court action (as the SNP should have been doing) marches, protests, and yes, civil disobedience without violence.
This, today, feels worse than 19th September 2014, the fight seems to have left so many. I hope this is just an immediate emotional reaction, and that by tomorrow, the YES movement is back in fighting spirit, the more so to show the snp leaders who have betrayed our faith in them, that they are no longer the means to indy, we will do it ourselves!
I am so sorry Stu, that you feel you cant continue now, you have taught us a huge amount over the years, and you have inspired us to greater action as well as giving us all a forum to discuss and argue and yet to come together for the greater good. Your Wee Blue Book was almost the full game-changer in 2014 that we needed, now everyone and his dog is copying you in that. Have a good rest, and like others, I hope you will return in April, refreshed and renewed and ready to enter the fray again, because one thing is sure – the media and the unionists will still need sharp dissection and dismissal, and nobody does it better than you.
The day I received my EU passport, it felt good.
The first time I arrived in Frankfurt, used it and the (German) immigration officer smiled and said welcome home sir, it felt good.
The day I found myself in a location where there was no UK embassy and I went into the French one instead and they treated me as a citizen, it felt good.
Today that will be taken away from me and I shall not feel good about it.
But before I was a European, or a Brit, I am a Scot, first and foremost, and will forever be.
This treaty of the union thing is taking a bit of shaking off though isn’t it? Slippery ba#*”*ds.
I used to have a relatively well known voice in this movement. Bailed out last May. Twitter is poison for the soul. I’ve returned today to find fuck all has changed. At least my belief that every single tweet I ever sent was completely pointless has turned out to be correct. Things will never change. Perhaps we really are too wee after all. You’re right to leave Stu, you’re right about most things… apart from Tetris;)
@Rev – have a good break, you deserve it.
@Jockanese Wind Talker – yeah, not a bad idea, it has some previous elsewhere, if handled right it can be an advantage.
For myself, gutted, I’m gonna take some time to reflect on this.
I don’t buy the conspiracies about NS, if true, damage could have been done in other ways & we are at least still in the game, just, but the narrative has been very poor, weak, lacking in energy, direction, candour. The terms of Brexit are known & yet we do not get to speak, the UK has lost against the EU, but won every hand against us.
2014-16 – reflect, consolidate – I get that.
But 2016-20 – nothing, the British state on the rocks & we had nothing, because we respect HoC ‘right’ to rule. We need to challenge that, often & for as long as necessary.
We need to expose this union as unworkable, twist it to destruction.
“ Her predecessor – now completely written out of party history in a breathtakingly shameful piece of Stalinist revisionism”
That is astonishing.
If today’s response had been a cut and paste job that came immediately, i.e. same day after Boris’s refusal of the Section 30 order I could *maybe* have understood it.
But even with all the time they had to prepare it, waiting right literally till the very end of the timescale they set out, that was the best the SNP could do?
If it is, then I am afraid they are out of ideas.
Winning a majority at Holyrood 2021 is NOT going to put any more pressure on Boris to grant a Section 30. It just isn’t. Why would it? What would differ? He’s found out today he can say no with no consequences.
The only thing that will put pressure on him is if the SNP/Scottish Government actually start doing the sort of things the everyone else has said, which is either or both of:
– properly testing the legality of the Scottish Government to hold a referendum without Wesminster’s approval
– standing at a Scottish Parliament election with a manifesto that winning a majority is tantamount to a mandate for negotiating outright independence, not requesting a referendum.
Where we go from here, I don’t know. I understand the argument that now is not the time for infighting and recriminations and dividing the vote, etc., but at the same time the SNP MUST be reminded that they do not get the pro-independence vote entirely by default.
If that means alternative parties splitting the vote and potentially costing a pro-indy majority in 2021 it might be a necessary go-backwards-to-go-forwards step, if it either spurs the SNP on or it means over a longer period of time the pro-indy vote migrates to an entirely different party.
Well.
Good for you taking a break Stu.
I have been curious as to where my small contributions to the snp yes campaign coffers have gone – they seem to just keep asking for more without saying what happened to the last donation. And I do like to see something for my money. Flags for Yes groups? Well I can see them flying, and a fabulous sight they are. Just wasn’t feeling like there was much return on my investment with the SNP.
You know, I was actually expecting some manoeuvring towards a leadership change before now, and find it strange that there’s not been anything even hinted at. Change is good as a refresh too. But we all know how squeaky clean the SNP like to be – so much as a whiff of association with something not quite above board is usually swiftly excised – and there have been a few whiffs surrounding Nicola Sturgeon over the past year, so why haven’t they started with her removal from office? Politically a change in leadership would be a good move, and especially right now.
You are right Stu, people just want to get on with thinking about why their bins aren’t getting emptied – the outrage strategy has run its course. I’m still hoping that the Forward as One court case, if it has a positive outcome, forces their hand to hold a referendum – if they refuse to do it then, well.
Winning hearts and minds of the undecideds is just not going to happen while the SNP appear so weak and indecisive. Would have been better not having all our eggs in the one basket.
Dr Ew…
Tell me, Doctor, what prize for 2nd place in this race?
Performance of the SNP since NS has been at the helm has got us where we are today; which despite all the mandates, Holyrood votes and public marches is no closer to Indy than we were on the 19th of September 2014.
The only difference between then and now is that despite all the bluster and empty rhetoric of Blackford and Co. we’re out of the EU – despite our 62% vote to Remain.
Plus, we’ve got to suffer a right-wing Tory Trumpesque-bampot in No.10 with an 80 seat majority and no love of Scotland.
That’s most deserving of a round of applause – using one hand…
Remember Kids
11pm “Ode To Joy” or Beethoven’s 9th symphony depending on cd cover.
Stu has surpassed himself with this utter shite post. Just back from an uplifting demo outside Holyrood with true believers in Scotland’s independent future in Europe. Nicola gave a very pragmatic and measured statement earlier today. A two month holiday from Stu’s negativity is to be welcomed.
Hackalumpoff says:
31 January, 2020 at 8:08 pm
@jfngw
Thanks for that you beat me to it, sometimes I despair.
@Graeme, she did what you wanted FFS, watch it again “without predjudice”
———————————————————————
I didn’t get as far as listening to her answer, I switched it off my point is how many times do they have to answer that question, it’s beyond tedious and irrelevant and they know it but still they keep asking it and it fucking irritates me and I don’t give fuck if you despair
Enjoy your break Stu you deserve it given the stress and abuse you have endured over the years to give us the facts, exposing the lies and above all hope.
I agree with everything you have said and can`t understand those who cling to Sturgeon despite her record and that of the SNP being laid bare. And to those people I would ask what exactly has Sturgeon done to promote independence apart from react to events.
We are talking about freedom for our country but there is no fight, no passion and no strategy, and that is why we are getting nowhere.
The SNP have shown that independence is not their priority.
” Mist001 says:
31 January, 2020 at 5:56 pm
Right. Here’s my plan for what it’s worth and if anybody actually gives a shit any more………..
AUOB should take a leaf out of the Jarrow Marchers and take their 80,000 marchers and march from Edinburgh to Westminster. The UK and the rest of the World could NOT ignore that or put their usual spin on things.”
Mist001, No need to reference the Jarrow Marchers, We had them from Glasgow. One was a march by men.
There was also a march by women, one of which was my mother, she was elected treasurer for the march. A delegation was taken into No. 10, put their case to and were offered tea by Ramsay McDonald’s daughter. Ishbel ? My mum recorded that on a point of principal, she refused it.
“jfngw says:
31 January, 2020 at 6:47 pm
@Tinto Chief
What I said was I would no longer vote at Westminster elections, by voting I am now legitimising their control over Scotland. Spoilt ballot papers winning the majority of seats sends a stronger message than sending SNP MP’s to waste their time in London.
Holyrood is another matter, it depends on what the independence options are.”
I’m not sure why you have addressed this to me, since I wasn’t referring to anything you said.
I was referring to a perception among some of the party leadership that SNP voters can go nowhere else. Once Labour voters in Scotland felt taken for granted, we all know what happened. As The Rev said, it’s a warning from history.
cottieDog says:31 January, 2020 at 8:42 pm
There was allegations about Alex Salmond going about at the time of the referendum.
Do I think it was wrong? Yes I do but lets not kid ourselves, it was happening at every political level then and it still happening now. Do I condemn Alex Salmond? If the allegations is true then yes I do. If true, it was a vile abuse of power. The problem I have with this is that he lived in a culture where this acceptable so there needs to be need to condemnation every politician in that era who did the same thing, whether accusations were decided to be investigated by the media or not.
In 2020, and the era of heightened allegations of sexual harassment and the knowledge of its consequences towards it’s victims, If AS was in power and had perpetrated these acts then he should be thrown to the wolfs and no questions asked but why should he be singled out when so many did the same and are getting away with it?
The SNP has every right to stamp it out and I hope they do so that this doesn’t happen but hopefully they realise that they as an organisation has some blame in the first place if the allegation is true and that whitewashing the past won’t solve the problem?
Get a grip
Nothing has happened today that we didn’t already know was going to happen
Then NS made a speech
A speech that WOS built you up into expecting a date for indyref2
NS didn’t have any intention of issuing such a date
So you are all deflated
All this at a time when we have the biggest number of people ever supporting Scottish independence
Get a grip all those saying they won’t vote SNP again or won’t vote for NS
Wheel the day comes
You will vote for Scottish independence
If you are truly a Scottish independence supporter
Meantime , sure thing , have a holiday , or whatever else you want to do
terence callachan says: 31 January, 2020 at 9:20 pm
A voice of sanity.
While I do respect the Rev in what he has done but given some the comments to his posts, do we expect a Scottish re-enactment of the Sex Pistols Anarchy in the UK to be helpful?
I’ve spent the day rather depressed.
First of all – Thanks to Rev Stu for all the work he’s put in since 2011. Appreciated. An offshoot from that is the number of people I regard as friends now, from all over Scotland, who kinda came together under the unofficial title “Friends of WOS”.
I’ll only mention Ronnie Anderson, who continued running the “FofWOS” stall at rallies, after the first outing at Strathclyde Park and Gillian – “Ruglonian” – who has taken over the task of organising the “FofWOS” stall at rallies since last year.
As I typed, I’ve rather depressed today but have perked up.
The Arbroath march and rally on 4th April was always a definite but last weekend, I booked myself a wee holiday in Stornoway, to include the march/rally on the 18th April.
I was working on managing the Elgin March at the start of July but it did go through my mind to forget it. My mind has changed. If my son and I can do Elgin, we will.
The SNP is not the Yes movement – and I type as an SNP member. The YES movement is above “party politics”, thus we should be supporting the YES initiatives organised by whoever – AUOB, “Forward As One” and so on.
We have to keep up the public profile of the YES movement and the only way WE have to do that is supporting the marches/rallies.
I will leave you with a 4:41 video, alluded to above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WulAWn_N_O0
Have a tissue ready for when the bagpipes come in.
This stuff with Salmond I can’t believe.
UK media has made him out to be a mad racist.
Bute house must awash with security CCTV and
Yet we to believe he could run around taping people
Who couldn’t muster the strength of will to report it as it happened?
Nicola worked very closely with Salmond.
Why didn’t he tackle her at any time over all those years.
She would mark someone’s card if they did try.
Does Nicola feel instructive as the only woman in Scotland not have been touched up?
Why wasn’t the Scottish office woman who went after Alex illegally not prosecuted?
Why wasn’t Boris impeached for his relationship with that American Blond
Where is Bojo’s court case after the allegations by 2 women who he touched up inappropriately ?
Alex gets this crap as they can’t have another Scottish leader shoot himself and throw the gun 60 yards down the road.
The power and control the rich elite have is growing like wildfire.
If Scots are left under Bojo Tory Control for the next 10 years our nation will be dead
Along with democracy and access to the truth.
PS The First Minister’s Independence Petition asked for 300,000 signatures
I pestered the life out of everyone to sign and send it on.
Delighted to see it eventually go thru 500,000.
Now at 518,000 and still growing if feel so what was the point?
Sturgeon must now resign – she has failed. While I see the problem and that we must be patient I feel we must have a new leader -someone who can get us to the vote soon. Too many feel let down by Sturgeon and I think any political leader in this situation should resign because they have essentially failed. Alex would have.
Alex Salmond had absolutely nothing to lose by having a referendum, except his job if he lost, and he took that chance
Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t have the luxury of losing because if she did lose it’s more than her job, Scotland loses forever, and we would, and that’s not acceptable to her and shouldn’t be to us either
Scotland can’t win this fight head on we have to drag the English into the mud and fight them there
Somebody else once had that idea and won, then Scotland betrayed itself and undid that and here we are all over again just about to get into the mud…… again!
It’s the not sure’s, the cowards, the sectarians and the bitterly twisted who let Scotland down aided and abetted by England voting for a bunch of Nazis, not the SNP or Nicola Sturgeon
She’s not Robert the Bruce or William Wallace, she’s a wummin doing the best she can with a modern day political battle while being constantly undermined by all of the above
Nicola Sturgeon didn’t join the SNP to battle for Independence 34 years ago just to get herself a good job because at that time it wasn’t a good job to be in the SNP, the easy ride was Labour, so when the five minute Independence *supporters* wail and gripe and moan about how well she’s not done why in the hell should we pay any attention to them as if they know something more than she does
Because they ffffing don’t!
and I should add that I think she is exhausted — and tired people are poor leaders – especially of causes. Causes need energy.
Have a very good break Stu, you deserve it.
And thank you for the work you’ve done over these years for us, all of us.
I’m very much a lurker these days, don’t have the time, but have spent the last 3 hours reading through this thread.
It’s a very sad day in many ways, but I’m sure the desire for Independence will not fade for any of us.
Dr Jim – in the mud with those heels?
@Achnababan
Modern wummin, she’s got boots
terence callachan says:
31 January, 2020 at 9:20 pm
“Get a grip
Nothing has happened today that we didn’t already know was going to happen
A speech that WOS built you up into expecting a date for indyref2”
Personally, for me, it’s nothing to do with WOS.
The SNP have been, metaphorically, writing cheques they couldn’t cash for a while now in their various pronouncements. It’s just that today it became clear that they couldn’t deliver on them.
Blackford’s PMQs in particular has become a study in the SNP confidently shouting things they ultimately have been unable to effect. And NS herself was the one who made a big show about saying she would set out her response by the end of the month and that there would be consequences for Boris for saying no. If she’d said what she said straight away – which would have been entirely easy because Boris saying no was entirely predictable – that might have been fine, but taking so much time to say this was only ever going to be anti-climactic.
People did repeatedly ask them in the GE campaign what the plan was when Boris said no. They bluffed their way through that with a “we’ll get to that bridge when we come to it, we don’t talk about hypotheticals” kind of way.
There wasn’t anything today that suggested they have a credible plan to change the situation. They’re just hoping something comes along to save things for them. Rightly, May got absolutely pilloried for the same thing with Brexit.
The SNP may well still be the best, or indeed only, vehicle for Scottish independence, but they don’t look anything like as believable in that role as they did a few years ago.
solarflare
We don’t need to test the legality of another referendum, Scotland is notionally an equal partner in voluntary union. Acknowledged in international Treaty Law. To bind Scottish democracy through legally dubious measures and the assumed supremacy of English law, is simply incompatible with liberal constitutionalism, and harms the structure of international law.
Parliamentary sovereignty is in inherently illiberal legal order, made even more so when Westminster isn’t legally sovereign of Scots, yet is able to dictate the legal identity of Scotland and all those who abide here.
Or do folk actually believe that Westminster can strip them and Scotland of legal identity, and it not be resisted with extreme prejudice? Though perhaps not by those who still view British constitutionalism as compatible with social democracy.
Rev Stu – you should take a break – no one should tell big Jack Collatin to fuck off!! I like his posts and some introspection is good for all of us…
Dr Jim
What was the SNP’s indy policy when Nicola Sturgeon joined the party in the 1980s?
A majority of SNP MPs is a mandate to begin indy negotiations. The SNP would hold a confirmatory indyref later.
That’s the SNP Nicola joined.
@Achnababan –
‘…in the mud with those heels?’
I say sah, are you being sexist?!
That kind of comment could be construed as ‘harassment’ dontchaknow?
Sexual harassment!
I feel duty-bound to inform you – in the interests of fair play, naturally – that if you post anything even broadly similar again then I shall appeal to Rev Stu to have you banned from this place on the basis that a pattern has been established!
Consider yourself warned sah!
😉
@Tinto chief
Sorry if I offended you, but I had made a comment earlier about not voting. it was a clarification of my position. I realise your post as not about me directly, maybe I should have commented to Vestas rather than yourself. I thought it was relevant to your post as it encompassed Holyrood voting.
Sarah @ 7.02
re testing the referendum question
The Electoral Commission is making a lot of noise about having to change the question on the Indy ref ballot paper. Because, we suspect, they want the wording to psychologically make people more likely to vote NO. Just now, the question ‘Should Scotland be an Independent Country?’ is supposed to make it more likely that people will vote for positive change i.e. YES.
So despite arguing against any change, I guess the S Gov has decided to go along worth them re discussion on possible change to the question on the paper.
The Rev can tell whoever he wants to Fuck off. That’s not your call.
@Terence Callachan,
Liar. The Rev has been tellig you for months there would be no indyref2 this year or next, so j ust how you manage to reverse that is amazing, nay ,mindbogglingly cretnous.
As for another turnip heid ststing that losing another indyref would result in no futher referedums, then perhaps they dont really believe the rigbts of Scots to be sovereign at all. Makes you despair
CameronB Brodie @ 10.19
Not got a problem with anything you say there.
But I think all I wanted to see was some sign that the SNP might actually have a clear plan in their own heads about next steps or a roadmap or whatever.
If they aren’t still even that fussed on trying to definitively test the legal issue what hope is there of them going all in on anything much bigger constitutionally?
I think the SNP should change its name to The North British Anti-Brexit Party. Even this week Alyn Smith said that we must stop Brexit to save the UK. The SNPs focus has become the UK from itself. It’s now the North British Party and I don’t believe that Nicola and the mandarins really want independence. They are merely grandstanding.
Stuart, I very much appreciate all your work. Your research is meticulous. Your considerations carry weight.
All the best!
As I’ve repeatedly explained: Nicola Sturgeon is a devolutionist first and foremost. Seen through a devolutionist’s eyes, her decision that she cannot act without UK consent makes perfect sense. I do think she believes in independence, so I’m no gonnae try and paint her as a betrayer etc.
However, I think she had a duty to deliver on the indyref mandate and EU mandate. I think she has a duty to serve the people of Scotland first and foremost and as they voted for indyref2 and to be kept in the EU she should have done whatever it took to do that.
Instead she put duty to the UK State first. She accepted UK Govt as the master rather than serving the people of Scotland.
I believe she has made genuine decisions but decisions that are woefully inadequate and seriously lacking in strategic thinking regarding indy.
I think she can remain a useful asset for the campaign for exercising of sovereignty and indy but, she should focus on her beloved colonial devolution parliament and hand the indy baton over to someone else or resign completely.
I think the SNP should change its name to The North British Anti-Brexit Party. Even this week Alyn Smith said that we must stop Brexit to save the UK. The SNPs focus has become the UK from itself. It’s now the North British Party and I don’t believe that Nicola and the mandarins really want independence. They are merely grandstanding.
Stuart, I very much appreciate all your work. Your research is meticulous. Your considerations carry weight.
All the best!
terence callachan says: at 9:20 pm
“Get a grip. Nothing has happened today that we didn’t already know was going to happen”
Really? Some had hoped there may have been an attempt to stop trying to dismantle the master’s hoose wi the master’s tools, and instead try using the full force light saber turned up to 11 on the Scots’ Sovereignty setting against the dark forces of our Imperial Masters…
I’ve put a big dollop of mayo on my chips euro styléé this evening in an attempt to stop Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.
Will 10 pence worth of mayo be as effective as a 70k a year MP?
Fuck knows, but check back in around 15minutes to see which method had most success.
Been thinking on this for a lot of the day.
Have got past my personal disappointment and now see today as a golden rung on the ladder to freedom.
Think about it – Boris Johnson has totally ignored Scotland – openly – and as a result we are now being forced to leave the EU which 73% of the country now rejects.
73% of Scotland wants to stay in Europe.
That’s 73% of the population who Boris has just crapped on – surely a bonus for Independence recruitment.
Up till now it has only been a threat but now it is happening; anyone who was not sure it would happen can be in no doubt now, and also can be in no doubt that many other things will happen because the Tories DON’T CARE.
This is all about the keeping the Tory party in power. It is not for the good of ‘ the country’ , for the good of any country, let alone Scotland.
Some business owners and No voters who might have been Pro-Brexit and anti-Indy may well have the scales drop off their eyes and change heart in the next few months.
Every cloud has a silver lining and whilst I never wanted to be here, here we now find ourselves and the Tories are going to make things a whole lot worse, so fasten your seat belts folks, ‘cos things will move rapidly now.
We picked ourselves up after September 18th, we can keep going from this setback.
You know, it’s a bit like climbing Ben Ledi –
You set off and think you can see the summit, then an hour later, you come out of the trees and realise that the summit is a bit further than you first thought but you keep going and push on up this hilly bit – only to find that there is another hilly bit that you couldn’t see from the bottom. So you have a wee rest and climb that hilly bit and then, blast, there is an even steeper hilly bit ahead but it’s too far to go back down, so you’re tired but you decide it’s worth keeping going up this stiff bit, then it levels out for a while and although the next bit, which is the push for the top seems far away still, you can see that this is the last bit and you get fresh energy to keep going. Then there are two or three hilly bits in sharp succession and just when you think you’re done, you reach the top and the view is fantastic.
That’s when you can see all round and you can appreciate how far you’ve pushed and climbed and huffed and puffed and struggled to reach your goal – and it feels bloody brilliant.
Just imagine what it will feel like when we do achieve Independence….. Keep the flame burning. We will be free.
AMOUR PROPRE
a belief and confidence in your own ability and value.
It does look as if many Scots haven’t much of that.
The SNP leaders are naively thinking that the politics of persuasion is what will bring independence. Scotland has been bombarded for years now by the politics of propaganda from London. Only a politics of propaganda will successfully counter it. Remember, propaganda can be true and salutary, just as much as it can be false and insidious. We have to use it too, or we lose.
It’s all very well talking of putting out more booklets etc. Most people are not political anoraks and either do not have the time or the inclination to read such fare. Propaganda is listened to and has an effect if it is skillfully done. SNP HQ shows no sign of understanding the basic principles of how and why propaganda works. Put out more booklets, have more summer roadshows and then hope, is their answer.
Nicola Sturgeon no doubt has what it takes to be an effective leader in an independent Scotland. Alas, she has demonstrated that she is all at sea in a time of strife.
Would there have been an EU ref if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014,
if you are looking for Great Betrayals it has got to be
Blair McDougall,
not only f@cked up Scotland he also managed to f@ck up the rest of his beloved United Kingdom,
there have been many absolute scoundrels from both sides of the border, but for me Blair McDougall is the worst rogue in the UK.
Well, there we are. Scotland has just been dragged out of the EU against its will, something the SNP or at least Ian Blackford informed the world that they wouldn’t allow to happen.
We are no longer EU citizens.
Fuck the SNP.
Well, the Britsh girlfriend I’ve just had for the last 47 years has gone and buggered off, but not to worry I’ve got a new one coming to stay. She’s German and I put in my application for citizenship this morning.
Bye bye
Nothing will move until after the AS trial.Take it to the bank.
Well Mr Blackford. Scotland will remain a European nation will it.How come we have just left the EU?
I felt a great disturbance in the Force… as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror because they were told they wouldn’t lose their EU Citizenship and would gain Independence but were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
OT
We are all in transition now
The next 11 months we are in a holding pen in a state penitentiary. After December the UK becomes our prison.
OT
I was well impressed with 4 Horseman leaving Brize Norton today
Scots must not go quietly into England’s never never land.
RAGE! RAGE! RAGE!
Looks like Scotland has been to be ripped out of Europe against its will.
Over to you Ian Blackford … What you gonna do?
From where I am standing there is no point whatever in SNP MP’s going to Westminster, just keep taking the money but spend your time here in Scotland … doing what you have supposed to have been doing since McIntyre got elected in 1945.
CAMPAIGNING FOR INDEPENDENCE!
At the Holyrood elections you can stand as Scotland First candidates on the list, retaining your Westminster jobs to thwart the Unionists.
And Nicola, it has been a long time since your Party had the nameplate on the Scotlandshire Regional Council Building changed to “Scottish Government” … how about acting like one and start prepping for the time the People of Scotland will give you the only mandate you will ever need to officially remove us from this iniquitous Union once and for all.
A Majority at the Holyrood Election you will force by resigning and preventing the Yoons from forming an alternative administration.
Fuck IndyRef2 … We do not need approval from anyone other than the electorate.
Faint hearts never win fuck all!
Think of the power the Tories now have. Does anyone think they won’t use it to destroy us.
It’s truly frightening.
Scotland – still on the Independence learning curve, or, burying its brainwashed head in the Colonial sand.
If any of you in SNPLAND think my back of a fag packet route-map to independence has any virtue.
Go to your branch and constituency meetings and MANDATE your MSPs and MPs to carry it through.
If you do – YOU will be acting to gain our country’s freedom, as opposed to waiting for the “Leadership” to tell you what to do.
You have this one golden opportunity, to strike while the iron is hot and the rest of your life to regret not having taken it.
The SNP: Tactically and ideologically naive in the extreme. They really are no more than regional administrators and I don’t mean that as a slur. I mean that’s their level.
If anything, the past three and a half years have shown us that the SNP doesn’t have the nous to participate in realpolitik. Put them in charge of collecting parking fines or something and they’d be great but anything above that, they’re completely out of their depth.
I fucking despise them even more now.
@ Graeme says at 8:58 pm
“I don’t give fuck if you despair”
Thanks for your support, good to know which side you are on.
Mist. It’s the leadership that need to go. Not the whole party. However I did resign my membership today after 32 years. Losing my EU citizenship without a fight was the final straw.
Well Mr Blackford, where are you tonight?
Ian Blackford lied.
What’s he gonna say at the next PMQs. BJ will just piss on him and laugh.
E
U
R
SCOTLAND
P
E
Didn’t quite work.
So reading between the lines, its Alex Salmond who is smarting at his treatment by the SNP.
And either he wants an early indyref to somehow dissolve his current problems and sweep the country up (and himself) in some hysteria similar to the summer of 2014.
This is a common theme amongst YES supporters that feeling of excitement and community that a better world could be created, and the awful awakening on the 19th of September, bit like being woken from a trance.
And on the other hand there is the Murrells and the High Command, who realise that spite of all polls have not shifted and all the potential converts are already on board.
So instead of a headlong charge into the serried ranks of Redcoats.
They are discretely keeping up the image of being ardent supporters, yet at the same time applying the brakes and letting the impatient members fade away.
Just enough to get past the line in 2021 they hope.
It seems the SNP are destined to meet the same fate as Scottish Labour. Just a bit quicker.
“We were told that the Brexit vote would send support soaring. It didn’t.”
Support for Independence should have increased with Brexit and PMJohnson. Why not?
It’s like blowing up a car tyre at the petrol station but getting nowhere – because there’s a hole in the tyre.
Support for Independence has a hole in it. Right?
But before we can fix the hole and inflate the Independence tyre, we have to find the hole. Right?
Or perhaps it’s the valve. Maybe it’s blocked with rust perhaps? Maybe the air is not getting through.
There has to be an explanation as to why support for Independence is not increasing under optimal circumstances.
The valve is the media. The Unionist media controls the flow of information. Scotland’s not being given enough accurate information. The air is not getting through. The valve is blocked. The UK Government makes sure of that.
Westminster is winning the propaganda war hands down.
Even with Brexit, Johnson, Austerity and the Climate Crisis, support for Independence is extremely slow.
The media has a stranglehold on support for Independence.
The Scottish government and the SNP are unable to break the Unionist grip on the minds of many voters.
Where is the SNP’s campaign to counteract Westminster’s.
It does not have one. For whatever reason.
A Campaign is the only thing that will change this situation.
Let’s evaluate the situation and find a solution.
I’m over it already.
Got to be . In early tomorrow for another hard shift.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing HAS changed!
RT now reporting the EU flag has been taken down at Holyrood. Anyone know the reason? Some official ruling? Weather? What?
The SNP are stagnant, going nowhere, and to get out of the pit they have dug themselves they need a change – the easiest and most prudent change is in leadership. However much some people worship her, and she IS a good politician and would be very good in some ministerial roles, but she doesn’t have the leadership ,,, political acumen. She should have known to stand aside before now.
The question is whether you want independence – in which case you should want the right leadership at the right time. Nicola Sturgeon has done really well administratively and running the country – that’s all managerial stuff. But for actually enabling a referendum, you need nous, you need to show strength and a confidence to know you can make things happen, and to not fear hard truths – strength and conviction – E.g their avoidance and fear of mentioning a possible border. Oh I cringe. Just say it might happen, but don’t worry we can deal with it and make sure it’s,,, frictionless. The indecision! The waffle! The sickening pleading to the EU (and I’m in favour of the EU!) – it was a 62% remain vote, not 80%, not everyone in the country is remain. This is their idea of appealing to moderates? I think more people will be convinced by less hyperbole and a bit more conviction.
By repeating exactly what they have said and done for the past 3 years, they will get exactly the same result. It should not be who we LIKE in charge, it should be who is best for the job at this time. I don’t actually know who that is, but someone must.
On a positive note, Forward as One has instructed their solicitor to send a letter to the uk government – they have 14 days to respond :
https://mobile.twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1223298260388995073?utm_source=sendinblue&utm_campaign=Update23382078onTheScottishPeopleVsTheUKGovernmentonIndyref2January312020&utm_medium=email
Mist001
Manny singh??
You mean that great Trump supporter that Manny is. Good luck with that one pal
the idea that Manny Singh will be part of the next chapter is laughable
@kapelmeister –
It’s the thought that counts!
😉
such effort for no purpose Stu…
No body has a magic independence wand as well you know while stirring up the wee dafties – catch yourself on – it will need hard campaigning while trying to keep the Scottish people on board while they being bombarded by untruths from the MSM – something you used to help combat back in the day
Moaning on-line while suggesting decent hard-working campaigners are tractors and lacking commitment to the cause while causing division is classic colonial policy – divide and conquer – shame on you
As for Scottish MP’s being seduced by the fleshpots of Westminster – what a joke – I have worked for several of them in election campaigns and know this not to be true
I would rate their commitment to independence and the probability of them being able to achieve it rather higher than yours given your current form
Divide and rule, seems to be going well for Westminster from the look of things…
There was a time when winning an indy referendum was not what worried me – I assumed that would happen, in time, of course; people when they get turned onto indy, never go back. It was inevitable.
What did worry me was the standard of people we had and what they could negotiate; if you have inept weaklings then the english walk off with all the booty and we are independent in name only, and looted to boot.
At minimum
– not a drop of oil for them
– not a single fish
– not a penny of “national debt”
– our proper share of what is ours, held in London and all the “kit” we have helped to pay for; currency reserves and military equipment
– nukes removed ASAP; and a punitive and exponentially increasing daily rent applied to their continued presence; a bond deposited in escrow to be held against proper cleanup after
– historical reparations
– ordinary trade and transit
I would hate to see our current crop go into such negotiations – they would shite it, giving the english all they want, in case “they cause trouble”
– and here is the really annoying thing about all the s30 bedwetting – given what I know of history, even if we had won by a mile last time, even with the full s30, all stamped and proper, I think the ukgov would have simply turned round and said :
“fuck you and your fucking democracy”
– and either they would delegitimise it with a combination of lawyerly sophistry, mandarin cunning, manipulating the deliberately unwritten consitution, plus copious mainstream propaganda, or demand such terms (see above) as to make it, in name only. It’s perfidious albion – not straight-shooting albion – honest john bull … people think S30 is a magical object, the one ring, the grail :
S30 – a magical device whereby, the world champion cheating cunts, will decide not to bother cheating you. The parable about the scorpion comes to mind.
The UK machine runs like this – banking at the top, and oil at the bottom; a basic flow of wealth from Scotland to London. There is nothing much in between. They can never let us go.
CUT THE CRAP GET BACK TO WORK, PEOPLE!
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1223397212044103681?s=20
WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE ?
Brexit has begun.
Personally, I never felt a thing.
Why would I – it’s a strictly xenophobic, racist, entitled, superiority, colonial, English thing.
Scotland could not be more different.
We are European.
England only ever exploited Europe for its own ends.
Just like it has done Scotland since 1707.
Union? Imagine the Queen married to a Nigerian. Union?
No. Colonialism. That’s what it’s all about.
Why is the SNP pissing about seeking legal confirmation as to whether another referendum is possible under Scots law? The British constitution has just been arbitrarily re-written by English Tories, ffs. Why aren’t the SNP resorting to international law in order to protect my human rights? Doesn’t anyone in the SNP understand and respect constitutional law and the Law of Persons? The Scottish government has a legal duty to protect civic society and the biological integrity of Scotland’s resident. What’s stopping them, other than thinking as British constitutionalists?
Rev, I will miss forensic (and acidly accurate) articles like this. Your sojourn is well earned in the context of the supine, directionless dissembling we’ve seen today. Haste ye back.
Oh I forgot, the SNP doesn’t believe in a legal recognition of biology, so are unable to support the inalienable human right to biological integrity.
Wake up Scotland and defend your human rights. Nobody in a position of legal authority in Scotland will do it for you, apparently.
@ CameronB Brodie on 1 February, 2020 at 12:35 am
You’re talking about a party that constantly parrots a deception to justify doing nothing about sectarian marches on our streets.
They repeatedly refer to the marchers’ rights etc. Complete bull, our rights of not to be offended supersede their “right”.
And not just that, in a recent Scottish Court case (think it was the one with the scumbag spitting on the priest) the judge stated in his closing remarks something along the lines of folk thinking they have a right to march etc. They do he said, but that “right” is not without restrictions.
Mind you, it’s all academic now because in less than a year we will have no ‘Human Rights’ as we currently know them.
Why don’t you write a letter to The SNP or ScotGov or whoever and ask the exact same questions you’re asking in your comment? I’m being serious, then share your response and thoughts on it. You never know, they might ask you to come on board as an adviser.
Whether you’re ring-rusty or not you seem to know what your talking about. Try putting it to the test and see what happens.
@cadogan enright (12.16)
When was the last time you posted a comment that wasn’t derogatory?
@SNP
You will die as a party and drag Scotland down with you, if you don’t thoroughly clear the party of those promoting and supporting gender ideology in law. They are a danger to Scotland’s democracy and an absolute impedance to Scotland obtaining constitutional justice.
Law must be grounded in ethical reason and post-foundational epistemology, if it hopes to be ethical. Introducing anti-foundationalist epistemology in to legal statute, undermines the potential for ethically rational jurisprudence, and provides the conditions for a state of totalitarianism.
The Right to Integrity
http://www.humanrights.is/en/human-rights-education-project/human-rights-concepts-ideas-and-fora/substantive-human-rights/the-rights-to-intergrity
Stoker
I’ve been waiting till my piss reached boiling point. They’ll be hearing from me presently. I need to do a bit of research first though, as I don’t want to leave any room for them to prevaricate with bureaucratic legalese.
Sorry, human rights actually need to be grounded in a foundationalist epistemology, e.g. biology. Not anti-foundationalist epistemology, e.g. emotions.
Towards a Natural Law Foundationalist Theory of
Universal Human Rights
https://digitalcommons.osgoode.yorku.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=olsrps
@stoker
“ If UKIP and all those twats can do it then so can we.”
EXACTLY.
Funny and excellent post by the way.
On the money stu. Have the snp paid any attention as to what happened to labour? Keep this up and they’re next.
CameronB yeah the more I look at the GRA crap and the SNP’s approach the more I see our culture, values, rites etc being eroded before our very eyes, and no one seems to notice.
With apologies and a nod to HST.
“Strange memories on this nervous night in Auld Reekie. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era—the kind of peak that never comes again. Scotia in the end years was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run . . . but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant. . . .
History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of “history” it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time—and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.
My central memory of that time seems to hang on one or five or maybe forty nights – or very early mornings – when I would awaken in a dumbstruck haze and wonder when the spider would make her leap of faith; when that “thank fuck” hold might finally extricate us from the abyss? Where art thou brave warrior? O redeemer of faith. Tied tightly in a contrived wrangle and wrocht hard by the prodigy fair socht by mony. Take us tae yon place where folk are just as high and wild as we are. Away from that sordid sodomy of Crown and counsel..
But there was madness in every direction. If not across borders then up in the skies and in that white saltire that seared the deep blue yonder. You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .
All we had to do was say “yes”.
And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. These days, our warriors wear skirts not kilts. Our energy would simply prevail. But in that Portree chippy, the flounder’s “we have been ignored for too long; our voice must be heard..” split and pasted, sent home to think again.
Yet we had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .
Or so we thought.
So now, less than six years later, you climb up Salisbury Crags and look North West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back. Taking our dreams and our hopes.
For the want of caution and the loss of conviction.”
Sharny Dubs
I’ll be hitting them with questions concerning stuff like this. 😉
Biological influences on cognitive function
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioral-and-brain-sciences/article/biological-influences-on-cognitive-function/263FBA45AE13EC221213E828CED025A6
And this.
Full text.
DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY AND PSYCHOANALYTIC THEORY OF DEVELOPMENT: THE PROBLEM OF THEORETICAL INFERENCE AND EPISTEMOLOGICAL COHERENCE
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298498412_DEVELOPMENTAL_PSYCHOLOGY_AND_PSYCHOANALYTIC_THEORY_OF_DEVELOPMENT_THE_PROBLEM_OF_THEORETICAL_INFERENCE_AND_EPISTEMOLOGICAL_COHERENCE
This should finish support for gender-ideology in law. It might also remind the party as to their primary function, which isn’t government within Britain. So can someone get this in front of the SNP’s management, please. TA.
The Linguistic Construction of Epistemological Difference
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/sllf/media/sllf-new/department-of-linguistics/WestonOPAL34.pdf
.
Today will cast a long and sad shadow for many years. I believe the old quote goes…
“All political careers end in failure”
On 31st January 2020 my faith in our current First Minister was extinguished. Her career will end. Sad that it is in this way. Many others are struck with the same irrevocable conclusion. For Stuart Campbell to write and post this article on his site must have been soul destroying. Having devoted many years of his life working for Scotland to become Independent, to now have the current First Minister sell out Scottish Independence for £1,200,000 Short Money paid by Westminster to her party and the luxurious London paid political careers of SNP MPs is a dire state of affairs. Any real self respecting nationalist MP really should be ashamed of themselves. This is gut wrenching.
Many years ago, when I believed in democracy, a visit from Scotland to London always included a treat: the free visit to the public galleries in the Houses of Parliament. I was very young and naive.
On the London Underground it hit me how different Scotland is from England.
In Scotland you speak with folk on the bus in Glasgow and Edinburgh and on the train to Dundee. You end up in a friendly chat with folk in shop queues in Inverness and Ayrshire.
London is a cold place. People stare at you if you engage in polite conversation as if you are an alien.
But this one day, on the London Underground as I headed for what was, in 1984 a time of political awakening, I saw a conversation start in the London Underground. It was between Enoch Powell MP and several Londoners. Plus, bizarrely, one Scot. Very civil. Fascinating. That sort of thing shouldn’t have been happening In London. In a surreal moment that stays with me 40 years later, I got off that underground train at Westminster with three others and we continued in an interesting, animated chat, walking past all the magnificent palatial setting at the Mother of Parliaments. Enoch Powell is both applauded and reviled within his historical biographies. But he seemed to love his job.
I cannot believe now, that as a Scot, living in my own country, I am quoting Enoch Powell twice in one contribution to this thread…
“Independence, the freedom of a self-governing nation, is in my estimation the highest political good, for which any disadvantage, if need be, and any sacrifice are a cheap price.”
Source: Enoch Powell MP.
The world is now completely inverted.
It pains the mind to read the words written by Stuart Campbell here in this article.
It sears the soul to believe, to know, that Stuart Campbell is right.
30 pieces of political silver.
Bought and sold for…
Maybe this is part of how one of the greatest Empires that the world has ever seen manages to “game” its strategy and frustrate the will of the Scottish nation.
Bitterly ironic that the current SNP McWoke brigade can do more damage to our country than a thousand Yoons on their keyboards of loathing.
Heads out the bottle to notice that outside of the performance of our national government, football or rugby teams this year it remains that the world’s most vital ever assembly is a home game in Glasgow .
Looking forward to the rugby today . No clue as to what will happen .
@ CameronB Brodie on 1 February, 2020 at 1:23 am:
Good! I look forward to the response/outcome, if you get one.
Stoker
I’ll need to put a bit of thought into how to approach contacting the party, but I will report back with any response.
Anyone interested in a bit more legal epistemology, while the blog is still active? I don’t know where else this sort of material would be acceptable.
I think I’ve already mentioned Coherence Theory is considered significant in defining “truth of belief”. I’m pretty sure I’ve also mentioned epistemology is a globally significant Scottish invention that is at the heart of every good, critical, scientific theory. 🙂
Full text and good for embarrassing Scotland’s judiciary with. The one’s who support (white) British nationalism and gender-ideology in law, anyway. 😉
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220539281_Formal_Models_of_Coherence_and_Legal_Epistemology
I don’t mean to swamp the discussion but I want to kill this gender issue tonight, and possibly focus a few minds.
Introducing gender-ideology into legal statute, facilitates the ideological capture of the law. In doing so, the woke-set are undermining the capacity for justice that is coherent with natural law. And so is Scotland’s judiciary.
Full text.
COHERENCE, EVIDENCE, AND LEGAL PROOF
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/06cb/2c933f9ef8b0a8382d237112430378d971df.pdf
Ian Brotherhood says:
1 February, 2020 at 1:08 am
@cadogan enright (12.16)
When was the last time you posted a comment that wasn’t derogatory?
—————-
could say the same for stu?
Nothing like a bit of well-aimed hyperbole to whip up the Wings Ultras.
cadogan Enright says:
1 February, 2020 at 12:16 am
….As for Scottish MP’s being seduced by the fleshpots of Westminster – what a joke – I have worked for several of them in election campaigns and know this not to be true
I would rate their commitment to independence and the probability of them being able to achieve it rather higher than yours given your current form.
To me, it isn’t their dedication or belief in Independence that’s the problem. It’s their embracing of impotence I cannot accept; they will fight democratically for democracy we don’t have, but squander and dismiss the essential founding principle required to make that democracy count for something.
The SNP repeatedly quotes Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, the Claim of Right, but only for sound bites. Yesterday’s abject capitulation to the will of Westminster is irrefutable evidence, actual proof, that the SNP leadership has no faith whatsoever in the Sovereignty of our people or the Sovereign Constitution of Scotland.
They are Unionists. They are Unionists who may not like the Union and crave it’s demise, but Unionists just the same because they nevertheless believe in it. Scotland’s Constitutional integrity is a fallacy to them.
I don’t hate the SNP, but their leadership is blinkered by political democracy, and has led us down a blind alley pursuing a futile democratic solution while unforgivably and inexcusably abandoning the essential definition of what Sovereignty properly means.
We could have defeated Brexit at a canter on Constitutional grounds, used our sovereign Constitution to ensure our Remain Mandate could not be overruled, and was recognised by Europe. We could thus have brought the United Kingdom to its knees, divided by Brexit, with Westminster pitting UK Sovereign “convention” against the impregnable Backstop of Scotland’s real and actual Constitutionally Sovereign Veto over Brexit. The Union’s “conventional” interpretation could not have survived the close inspection of that Constitutional stand off.
We’d have been Independent, in Europe, with England leaving both the EU and UK simultaneously at their own instigation. In fact, they wouldn’t actually have left the UK, because the fallacy there ever was a UK to begin with, would have crumbled to dust. The false “Convention” of Sovereignty would be exposed as fake when compared beside the masterpiece of the real thing.
That opportunity died last night. It no longer exists. We are out of Europe. The bullet is in our flesh. We have been utterly defeated without so much as a whimper because we are led by an SNP hierarchy which has neither faith nor belief in the Constitutional and lawful legitimacy of Scotland.
Instead, they have their faith in some naive utopian concept of democracy, where winning an ephemeral vote in a one off referendum magically delivers freedom. But that dream is a fatally flawed delusion, because democracy that is disconnected from enforceable Constitutional Sovereignty is not binding upon anyone. It is barking at the moon. It is a caged prisoner hallucinating about freedom but doomed to wake up the same cage over and over again.
We will lose, and we will lose time and time again, because Westminster is in total command of a Sovereignty it does not even have, a mere sovereign “Convention”, while Scotland continually puts its faith an SNP Government which is perplexed by the simple concept of the absolute sovereignty it does have, but is just too blinkered and mind-fucked to understand and put to good use.
The hubris of the SNP, their reckless and dangerous misuse of sovereignty, and their naive democratic puritanism just cost Scotland a grievous and heavy defeat last night. Some of us wept to see our unmitigated capitulation while standing upon the very brink of our sovereign deliverance, and yet it’s just another day at the office for the SNP. Move along, nothing to see here.
I’m sorry to say, we cannot forgive the SNP for this. There must be change. Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution can no longer afford to endure this level self inflicted injury and denial, or before long, everything will be lost and our defeat as a Nation absolute and irrecoverable.
I would rather see the hubris of the SNP shattered apart by Rev Stu than witness the Auld Sovereign Nation of Scotland suffer any further humiliation and capitulation by blinkered SNP mismanagement.
It really is that simple.
I say again, there are three Constitutions at play here, the Sovereign Constitution of Scotland the Nation, the “sovereign convention” of Westminster, and the Scotland Act / Sewel Convention which defines the constitution of the devolved assembly of Holyrood.
There is a dearth of ambition in the SNP’s determination to be governed by the lowest convention, be futile and impotent beneath the middle convention, and to deny the potency of the only true sovereign Constitution, the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland.
Breeks at 0617 and o629,
I agree with every word. It is this abject failure of the SNP to actually stand up for Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty that is at fault.
I think, and I apologise if I am putting words in your mouth, that what this means in essence is that without Scotland’s consitutional sovereignty first and foremost, then even a indyref win can be ignored by London.
If Westminster can ignore massive electoral wins, if they can ignore democratic mandate after democratic mandate, if they can ignore the fact that Scotland resolutely opposed leaving the EU in a referendum, if they can ignore ALL that, then what is to stop them from ignoring a yes result in indyref (if it ever happens). Indeed ,by extension, what is to stop them from shutting Holyrood for good.
You are correct. Nicola should have stood up for Scotland yesterday, but didn’t. Not in any way. You are right, she and the SNP are beholden to the Westminster system, and merely use the Scottish claim of right as soundbites. IF the Scottish claim of right meant anything at all, then Scotland would not be leaving the EU, and we certainly would not have the pathetic spectacle of a democratically elected First Minister of Scotland continually begging London for permission to uphold Scotland’s constitution.
De pfeffle Johnson will be laughing his socks off at the FM’s speech. Nothing to worry him at all.
So, so angry at the SNP. So, so angry at the FM. She should go. The sooner the better.
What is now as plain as the nose on your face is that Catalonia will be an independent EU member state before Scotland – simply down to the SNP now being principally a party of devolved Government, bought and sold for Westminster’s gold, as opposed to what the SNP was as recently as 2014; the hub that formed the centre of multi-spoked social, political and even cultural grass-roots movement.
As was said by Enoch Powell and excruciatingly demonstrated by NS yesterday, ‘Power devolved is power retained’. Our supposed SNP saviours, remember Blackford’s “We will not be dragged out of the European Union”, have proven to be at best impotent, at worse charlatans. All that tub-thumping at Westminster and in our own pretendy wee Parliament has amounted to the square root of bugger all.
I think that the veil has been well and truly lifted on both the reality of post 2014 Scotland within the UK and the ‘strategy’ of the current SNP leadership – it has possibly come as a shock to many.
If you pop “THE BETRAY Braveheart” into the search bar on YouTube, you’ll probably recognise what my words would fail to describe here…
Having had my bubble burst by the Headmistress yesterday morning, I think it’s also time for this unruly pupil to take a leave of absence. Adiós amigos.
If Scotland wants to become independent any time soon, its people will have to use radical action (e.g. strikes, boycotts) to achieve it. There will be no Westminster-approved referendum before 2030 without changing tactics. However, such methods are likely to need well over 50% popular support to be effective.
The SNP risks becoming the equivalent of the “Stoop Down Low Party” in the Six Counties by adhering to the rules of a state that despises the views of the people of Scotland and its elected representatives.
The alternative is the “Rip van Winkle” approach, with the campaign for independence kicked into the long grass and restarted in a decade or more.
Robert. N Eire will be part of the republic before we even have a referendum!
The UK is now Scotland’s prison. Remember Thatcher. That wild eyed megalomaniac. That’s where we are going from here. Except at least she had the EU to reign her in. Boris now has a super majority and no EU compliance issues.
The SNP have fucked us all. We gave them our trust and they abused it. I see no future for Scotland now.
I still can’t believe that Nicola is allowing Boris to stop our referendum. It’s just incredulous. Or does it suit her?
There is now going to be a root and branch review of devolution by WM. This is project claw back. They are going to direct fund Scotland out of existence. If Nicola lets that happen then it’s lights out forever.
@jfngw 10.29: absolutely no offence taken. It’s easy to get wires crossed on such a day.
And thanks for the upgrade to Tinto Chief ?, although I’m feeling a bit Tonto today.
The ? should have been 😀 !
Brexit, the Brexit power grab and Continuity Bill ripped up confirmed:
Holyrood is England’s British Empire colonial power OVER Scotland, NOT Scotland’s parliament.
Every MSP is a colonial administrator.
I disagree WM will shut Holyrood, not when it plays such a good job at suppressing Scottish sovereignty and administering Empire.
As long as First Order Sturgeon is in charge of the SNP and Holyrood, Boris will be happy. ( A Star Wars pun).
Of course, nearly all the big decisions have always been made elsewhere. Holyrood always has been a Mickey Mouse Parliament, youse just fell for the Salmond spin.
Salmond himself declared it a “parish council” before bigging it up as the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government when he was in charge.
So, what now?
Whether we continue to go the SNP route or not, clearly, Sturgeon has to go.
The SNP are now a sick joke.
I’ve avoided commenting on Wings lately because I thought that Stuart would be proved wrong in his assessment of the approach the S.N.P would take in relation to independence, and our departure from the E.U.
Well, I couldn’t have been more wrong. While I’m not cancelling my membership of the S.N.P, there has to be change at the top. Forget the polls. They can be rigged. We have to take a leap of faith, because if we don’t, them we are condemning future generations of Scots to a bleak future, ruled over by an increasingly authoritarian Westminster Government, who couldn’t care less about Scotland , and it’s people.
Alex-Salmond was forced into a referendum when the polls were 28%. When the UK had just entered a financial crash. He did it because he told the voters he would. He probably knew he would lose. Nicola is terrified of losing.Its why she needs to go.
Stu. I re-read your article. Anyone who still thinks Nicola can deliver independence is dilusional. She has screwed up tactically over and over again.
Just read your website for first time. Wow! Never been for independence, ever , but your site makes me think. ! Not with Nicola but perhaps the future ?
.
Big Jock, I think Alex Salmond had a great deal of faith.
When we started in the polls at 28% our best ever First Minister knew our YES vote percentage would increase. A great deal to do with the truth coming out about Scotland being shafted all these years and the media having to report IndyRef1
The virtuous circle of campaigners and work such as the Wee Blue Book got us to 45%.
Alex Salmond was AND is a great leader.
Meanwhile Nicola is smart enough to know that the same start-to-finish campaign percentage effect will get us from 47% to 60% YES during IndyRef2.
Stuart Campbell’s article on this page is clear and true.
Nicola will use warm words, but she has accepted £1,200,000 directly from Westminster to the SNP bank account every year.
Plus all the trinkets and limousines of high office with a current large group of MPs and MSPs. The WoS Hubris article will see that plummet in the next 5 to 10 years.
But as long as the SNP MPs and MSPs get their London allowance and salary and expenses and membership of the best private club in the country at the Palace of Westminster, we can all be voter fodder to be marched up and down fucking hills for the cause.
Aye Right
Sub judice rules mean we require to be circumspect about Alex Salmond.
But I just hope and pray that Bonnie Dundee and his “bunnet and me” is something we will see more of.
There are few around that are leaders. Alex Salmond is one of them. Nicola Sturgeon has been a good manager and can give a fine speech. But when that once in a lifetime test of leadership came, she failed. The 31st January 2020 was Nicola’s last chance.
Now, without an honourable politician at the helm, we are back to Robbie Burns…
.
.
Fareweel to a’ our Scottish fame,
Fareweel our ancient glory;
Fareweel ev’n to the Scottish name,
Sae fam’d in martial story.
Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
An’ Tweed rins to the ocean,
To mark where England’s province stands-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
What force or guile could not subdue,
Thro’ many warlike ages,
Is wrought now by a coward few,
For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
The English stell we could disdain,
Secure in valour’s station;
But English gold has been our bane-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
O would, or I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us,
My auld grey head had lien in clay,
Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
But pith and power, till my last hour,
I’ll mak this declaration;
We’re bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!
.
.
Jerezo, those words have never been so difficult to read. Today they jump off of the page.
What an almighty tragic state of affairs.
Reading through the comments reminds me of Scotland of old, when the Clans could not find a common agreement, so resorted to fight each other, like ferrets in a sack, while the English sat back and watched in amusement, knowing when the time comes for action, there would be but a thin tartan line.
Aye, remember the saying , “If we don’t learn from our past mistakes, :::: !!!!!
Albaman . You are wrong. We are not disagreeing with each other. We are disagreeing with our leaders.
Albuman
Really? It reminded me of Toom Tabard and the consequences of accepting suzerainty from London. Which is what Nicola explicitly did with her insistence a referendum must be agreed by London.
This site has turned into an anti SNP rantfest.
@Stu, have you been using your website to try and build your own party all along? Good luck with that then.
It is fair enough, it is your website after all. Just a wee bit sleekit. You have turned into the one thing you used despise.
Think about every time you have shoved a shiv into the SNP’s kidneys.How has that helped the independence cause exactly? You seem to step up just before elections too! How successful have you been incidentally.
According to you in is Nicola Sturgeon’s fault that polls haven’t showed a soaring majority. So, its nothing to to with the MSM you are becoming. You known damned well how polls work.
We still need a majority that we are only just reaching now that brexit became inevitable.
I will now fuck off and glean my independence info from other sites that are not as twisted or devious.
All is far from lost – Scotland could be Independent before the summer holidays.
We don’t even have to wait for Surgeon and Blackford.
It is within the power of the SNP constituency associations to instruct their MSP’s and MP’s to man the barricades NOW!
The job of the Westminster MP’s is to make it clear that the actions of the London Government has triple underlined the fact that that the Treaty of Union is a sham and that they are the government of England alone.
The Scottish Governments task is to make it clear that Boris Johnson has no power, legal, moral or otherwise to deny the people of Scotland the right to chose their own destiny.— By resigning and forcing an election, the sole purpose of which would be to determine whither the Scots wish to remain in the union or not.
Dear SNP members, whither this happens or not will be down to your actions or inaction in the coming weeks.
On recent form, waiting on the high Command to produce a credible plan of action, would seem to be somewhere between naive and futile.
Al-Stuart
I remember reading these words for the first time, in 1979, and pondering the recent actions of Scotland’s many Labour MP’s – It seemed as if the words had been written the day before especially for them, not 200 years ago about another bunch of Quislings.
Here’s a bit on Enoch Powell for younger readers.
Will post-Brexit Britain overcome or fall further upon Enoch Powell’s troubling legacy?
https://blogs.bath.ac.uk/iprblog/2018/04/23/will-post-brexit-britain-overcome-or-fall-further-upon-enoch-powells-troubling-legacy/
I’ve also mentioned Powell was a political realist, which Scotland desperately needs, IMHO. Though I wouldn’t want to live in a state that views the world with such cold, analytical dispassion and suspicion.
Political Realism in International Relations
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/realism-intl-relations/
Political realism is also pants, in terms of gender equality, as it ensure government adopts a gender blind and chauvinist world view.
kapelmeister @ 23:46 (31.Jan),
_.. E
_.. U
_.. R
SCOTLAND
_.. P
_.. E
Sorted. (I hope!)
There is one glimmer of light in this whole sorry business, which is that the EU no longer has to politely defer to the UK as a member. So we here in Scotland might be able to expect some more forthright expressions of support than was possible heretofore.
Oh, and I’ve already seen reports of a “Free Scotland” banner hanging outside the EU building. Anyone have a link to any pics…?
At least political realists recognise the importance of national soveriegnty though.
Sturgeon, like Salmond before her, has taken the Queen’s privy council oath never to allow anything democratic to be said or done against the Queen’s undemocratic rule over Scotland.
Sturgeon is a UK puppet, a British empire puppet so she will accept Scottish independence only if it is handed to her on a plate by the empire, otherwise forget it.
The Scottish independence movement needs a plan to win independence and that is what I have published.
Plan B for Scottish Independence
https://peterdow.wordpress.com/2019/10/31/plan-b-for-scottish-independence/
Just an OBSERVATION. A discussion point?
Most of the posts on here seem to blaming one person or another.
Lots of comparison to Catalonia.
But LOOK at Catalonia – the people are leading that cry for Independence – the politicians are their representatives at the discussion table.
Half a million people on the streets, one million in another protest, entire city centres blocked. The world knows that THE PEOPLE of Catalonia want to be free – even though there is relatively large chunk of Catalans who don’t want to separate.
If you think replacing the leader of the SNP and staying in the WM game will win us the day then maybe you are just as accepting of the hold that the WM system has as well. We need to think of other ( legitimate) ways round this.
I am not advising violent demonstrations or UDI but apart from AOUB marches we are not yet demonstrating that as a people the MAJORITY truly and unequivocally want independence and will not settle for the status quo. We are leaving it to our politicians to show our feelings and it’s easy then for Boris to just say NO, particularly in a forum where he has a majority of 80. Could he say no to 750,000+ people in a rally?
The media ignores our AOUB marches so a huge swathe of people are kept ignorant of any swell in popularity for Independence. How often do we actually hear speeches the tories, the lib Dems, Slab make on the airwaves but usually the news announcer just tells us what the SNP or S Gov said. Ruth Davidson was rarely off the TV or on the BBC website and you could always hear her speech but with Nicola it is usually just a photo – except just now.
Why is her speech relayed on the BBC just now – because it sounds like she is saying ‘ Now is not the time’ and the Controlling Powers want that message to be broadcast loud and clear to create disappointment and burst all those bubbles we are holding dear – and judging from the remarks here that policy has worked.
We must not give up. I long for Independence and will pick myself up and keep the flame burning. They say the darkest hour is just before the dawn – so ask yourself
‘What can I do?’ not ‘Who can I blame?’.
Blaming someone won’t change the situation we are now in, if it makes you feel better then fine, but get over it and let’s get active.
I don’t have the answers but I have the enthusiasm. We can’t have come this far just to give up.
As far as I see things, the fog of war has now lifted. The battlefield is now in clear sight, as is our opponent. All we need now is someone who respects the rule-of-law to defend Scotland from authoritarian English nationalism.
LIBERTY, LAW AND JUSTICE
https://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/media/universityofexeter/schoolofhumanitiesandsocialsciences/law/pdfs/Liberty_law_and_Justice.pdf
TODAY. England’s Daily Mail Front Page Banner for their Tory readers:
“We’re out ! ”
“FREE BREXIT TEA TOWEL”
[worth £9.97]
How Scotland moves forward will have global ramifications. The principle of universal human rights is under attack as never before. Without a respect for natural law, the future for those not already economically and legally privileged, is looking rather grim.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/egp.v8.24446
If we want self-determination, we must take it. Don’t let any politicians be our masters.
So much understandable disappointment. But nobody has come up with a credible alternative to the SNP approach. Credible excludes UDI fwiw.
Reality is there is at best marginal support so far for independence.
Asklair @ 13:28,
Errm, what’s your secret method then, dare I ask?
It’s this kind of fatuous waffle that gets us absolutely nowhere.
Brian Lucey
Are we looking at the same political landscape? Are you remembering that placing politics above the rule-of-law undermines democracy?
The SNP just needs to connect with constitutional law, as opposed to British constitutional tradition. It would also help if they found someone who understood and respect the Law of Persons and the principle of universal human rights.
@SNP
Fill your boots.
Law of States, Law of Peoples: Three Models of Sovereignty
http://www.lse.ac.uk/globalGovernance/publications/articlesAndLectures/lawsOfStatesLawsOfPeoples.pdf
Stu, may I suggest while you are on holiday, do some research on repealing the treaty of 1707.
“EU backs Spain over Gibraltar”
And so it begins.
It needs to be recognised that we live in a “country” where the state’s institutions have systematically been captured and corrupted by an extremist minority of individuals who have, through their networks of very rich individuals with a great deal of political influence (oligarchs), and insidious and sophisticated management of all access to information, has rendered the democratic voice of people’s movements impotent and ineffective.
The diminution of the BBC provides a leading example of this process. But the unspoken underlying assumption of many (if not most) people, is to assume that Auntie, as well as the Electoral Commission and elections in general, the Police,
the courts, the civil service, their local councils, and numerous quangos etc, are basically trustworthy – and any suggestion to the contrary is easily derided as conspiracy theory.
Ruling oligarchs learned a lot of new methods of “democracy suppression” in the aftermath of the destruction of the USSR.
Firstly people are no longer to encouraged to educate themselves. The powerful would rather people indulge themselves in the playthings of distraction – I think the end of critical thinking seems the obvious goal in the state’s curriculum.
But the most useful tool in their new armoury is the mobile/smart phone technology which allows for the mass collection of data on individuals and the tailoring of political advertising to “control” people’s opinions (minds), fixing them – in much the same way as brand loyalty is used in commercial advertising.
The willingness of folk to believe what they see presented to them officially is well understood and it would be foolish not to recognise that each and every one of us is vulnerable to these sub-conscious psychological techniques.
What this means for us in Scotland is that we may need recognise the normal democratic route to independence is NOT a viable one.
We must not mistake our current weak position as a problem to be solved but rather as a predicament we have to live with.
And that being the case, we may well have to accept that the only routes open to Independence for Scotland will likely mirror the struggles of the many nations that trod this road before us.
Aye it’s heading that way. The so called legal route is dead.
You need to think of Boris as Thatcher mark 2, but without the protection of the EU. Part of me will be happy to see all naw bags and Brexiteers fucked!!
Read most of the above comments but come on folks it is essy to criticise but what else could have been done when we are in the current state of paralysis. Nobody has come out with an alternative solution. What else is she going to say to preserve hope that the situation will change. Frustrating as it is and I suspect a lot of what Stu has said is accurate about the Party but to say anything else is going to play into the hands of the Unionists. If there is any factor that has prevented increased support it is the economic case for Indy which has yet to be proven beyond doubt. I blog everyday on this about the deficit but at the end of the day it is people’s livelihoods that are at stake and until we crack this issue we are never going to convince the ‘NO’s’to change their minds. I dare say Brexit may change this but Westminster will have a problem as I see it they can throw money at us as they have promised other parts of the UK but unlike other ‘Regions’ they will have to restrict or remove powers in Scotland as failure to do so will simply shore up support for the SNP. That is if the public purse allows which given all the economic analysis so far suggest this may not be sustainable. The most likely prospect (and the one which the SNP I bet are placing all their hopes on)is the Economy dives as it will push Scots to view Independence within the EU as the only option. Remember the (low tax party)Tories will not want to raise taxes so they may well see ditching Scotland to preserve their hides is the only option. The Americans are already threatening to significantly increase the cost of drugs which again for the same reason will push the privatisation of the NHS agenda which again will focus peoples’ attentions. Yes it is a gamble but I really do not see any alternative. All I would ask is to keep the faith as we shall see very soon how matters will pan out and we have waited this long so surely another year is bearable.
She could have taken May through the courts 3 years ago. She might have won! She shouldn’t have tried to be England’s Mother Theresa.
She could have said any Brexit is not what Scotland voted for. She could have used a route other than section 30. She could have called a Scottish election on independence. Why was the legislation for Indy ref 2 done in December 19?
Her tactic was to grow support not get Indy ref 2. We are not having a referendum until Nicola gets another 5 year term. We might be looking at 2024.
We will have been out of Europe 4 years. It’s just an entire omnishambles.
@kapelmeister & Robert J. Sutherland
Re. The projected Scotland / Europe image on the building.
It appears it isn’t quite as it seems.
https://twitter.com/ellenjoelle/status/1223690065106341888
One wonders if our “brightest and best” politicians actually consider the ramifications of their actions…
SNP paid for it Dan! So came out of SNP budget. Still it does seem a bit misleading. I think the target is swithering remain voters.
Hi All.
I want to get a new word into the OED within the next 2 years.The word is Boris. It means a LIAR. It will have to start with working class youths, any colour, race or religeon. So any time you hear a lie tell the person that they are a BORIS.
I think it could get traction and if nothing else may force our PM to revert to his first name of Alexander. Your so vain.
Looking forward to seeing it in Hansard.
GTB.
C’mon Big Jock. The wording is more than a bit misleading.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1223369787260260354
Is it really too much to ask for our politicians to be straight up honest and accountable.
Guess I’m maybe just a little hypercritical at the moment having spent the past few years working my arse off trying to sell the positive aspects of retaining our EU citizenship having been told Scotland wouldn’t be pulled out the EU against our will…
Well paid politicians may have the time and security in their lives to play games with words and people, but in the real world where folk often struggle to get by and heat their homes, this sort of disingenuous shit doesn’t sit so well, and it affords stressed people an outlet and opportunity to vent their frustrations at the political classes.
I don’t particularly like having to try to cover off these sort of actions when I’m trying to promote the Party and Indy cause, and when this sort of thing occurs I just shake my head and think “Gonnae no do that, jist gonnae no”.
hard to believe that wings is capable of further decline – but there you have it…
I expected something better from Nicola Sturgeon. Tho, I didn’t expect too much from her on this…But even so, I was greatly surprised at the negative tone she came out with Here.
The First Minister has betrayed this country… as has the SNP in general.
There is no going back for them.
We need a new political Party of Independence.
SNP being competent at Edinburgh level Government is one thing, taking us to Independence, another thing.
It was always one of my fears, in 2014 when she succeeded Salmond, that all these hopes would be dashed.
I never thought they would be so dashed, in such a manner, however.
SNP has to be replaced.
We need new politicians who will stand up to London, and take us to Independence.
Fact that she did not announce a Scottish Election on Independence for 2020 shows she will just prevaricate and try to hold on to her position till chucked out.
It will be stalemate till we see new leadership for sure.
We still don’t know what Brexit is. (From BJ’s recent comments, negotiations could end on the first day)
Be patient. Hold, hold, HOLD….
I agree with Nicola’s stance.
We need to be regularly hitting above 55% on the polls to even think about Indy2. Lose again and we will have to wait for a generation. A narrow win will not change things and then we will have to fight off calls to re-join the Union. We need to win convincingly
That means getting out there and converting soft No’s and persuading other institutions like Unison for support.
What are we doing, twiddling our fingers and fighting amongst ourselves about non independence issues.
How very Scottish.
Dear Scots !
Please, please, do not repeat Culloden again !
Please don’t leave your emotions, impatience and love for freedom take over strategy and careful planning. Haste is from the devil and higher things go slowly. Just give BJ and his edge-funds managers shire-tories 6 to 8 months, enough for them to flounder into the bog of their own making and be “trumpified”and humiliated.
Wait a bit for the Tories to fall into an unavoidable internecine war again. Meanwhile gather support, a WIDER support than the SNP’s one alone, gather strength, prepare and plan.
Make sure that when you go UNITED for an indyref2 you are assured of an indisputable majority, certainly over 50% . . . as faced with the sufferings from the Tory mess at least 55 or 60% of Scots vote for independence !
Advice from an old French expat.
I wait with baited breath for PMQ’s on Wednesday when no doubt Ian Blackford will state ‘Scotland will not be taken back into the EU against the will of the Scottish people’.
This 55% drivel is a lot of nonsense. You go when you have the opportunity to go. You win in the campaign, not in the opinion polls. The higher the yes support, the less likely a section 30 will be granted.
It needs to stop as it’s becoming received wisdom. You could go in on 60% and lose in the campaign. You could go in on 40% and win in the campaign. Stop believing opinion polls!
Late to the comments.
Was at Holyrood on Friday night, sad, symbolic but the great Joanna Cherry and Phillipa Whitford were there.
Met Peter Bell and Craig Murray both looking suitably sombre.
I didn’t listen to NSs speech.
I was a major fan, campaigned raised money, etc like loads of people, then I began to really listen to her 45 minute bore fests. I realised she actually said nothing. It was all lawyer speak.
Every word was carefully measured.
I no longer listen to anything she says.
I started to go off her when she kept moving the red lines re Brexit, CU, SM etc
She came across exactly like May.
Running up and down to WM, expecting to be listened to.
I even read that she was wandering about poking her nose into rooms, looking for someone who would listen to her.
She started to be embarrassing.
I think when she started, she was in ASs shadow, she gained confidence and people abroad started to praise her, IMO it went straight to her head.
Downhill from then on in.
Changing the rules to capture AS.
Going full on woke self ID.
BTW @cameronBBrodie, I’m saving lots of stuff including yours to formulate my response to the GRA.
Parachuting her chosen ones into positions of influence.
She either has to go or we need a new party.
Couple of points, I think a lot of the – trust in oor Nicola-brigade especially on twitter – are SNP activists.
To those saying it’s the Scots own fault cos we’re cowards, that gets an instant block from me on SM.
In 2014, 52% of Scots born voted Yes.
I’m glad we have English people supporting and campaigning for #indyref2 but there is no denying the facts, 70%+ vote No.
Thanks to the Rev for being brave and writing the truth.
Enjoy your break.
Please come back refreshed, we need you to form a new party.
First the came for the religious believers….
Then they came for the philosophers….
Then they came for the politicians….
Then they came for the academics….
Then they came for the scientists….
Then they came for sleepy bears that were shitting in the woods….
As Dougal (McSporran) Haston once said watching his wife scooping the yoghurt;
“Is an Itchi Fani noe a Japanese motorbike?…..I know, I know, some people have a job to do and are doing it, but we have a life to live and mountains tae climb, lets start daein it.” (didn’t say it).
A man walks down the street
He says, Why am I soft in the middle
When the rest of my life so hard
Don’t want (Hamish) to end up in a cartoon graveyard
he says, “Think of a number any number”
How about 1.618 (the golden ratio) as denoted by the Greek letter phi, it’s been canonised as the “divine proportion”.
Also used by Leonardo,(literally the building blocks, that make up the human body) take a tape measure, measure your height, then measure the height of your belly button from the floor and divide the first by the second measurement, ….voila! (Mr. Beerbelly, Beerbelly you can allow a little error either way,+-5% is the normal allowance).
Just One More Thing…..
Are you paying attention at the back?
You must ask yourself a question, are you being trolled? Or even, do you recognise this number from somewhere?.
2014 YES: 1,617,989
2016 Remain: 16,141,241
Have you been robbed and is the thief simply leaving a calling card, as an obvious boast??.
Back in the day, pre home telephones, Betty couldn’t call Al, she visited instead and if Al wasn’t in Betty left her calling card (like a business card except for personal use).
Its a generational thing and no it didn’t happen, right? (cue the Mona, Mona Lisa smile).
Now Ketchup.
(The internet generation has enabled research that was done over the lifetime of a large group of researchers to be done in a few years by a single person….YES)
And to the point…
Today, as in right now, we have the Tory party in power at Westminster (a Labour party with barely enough spunk left to honk) and Scotland soon to be at the top of the Tory extinction list, who will not content themselves with the mere bending of, but intend to proceed with the violent crushing of all of the thistles (what they actually say is, we will get on like a house on fire).
What are we going to do about it?, what is our response to be, to these environmental/political stressors from a now totally alien uk westminster government?.
Well, hibernation is one possible answer, live with it and a lifetime of shame with painful, daily triggers, another.
But just like us, the poor old Kodiak and the Koala bears have discovered, the lessons in life they learned from previous generations no longer apply and hibernation or torpor is no protection in this day and age.
You now see globally (and in every aspect of life) the phrase “a generation” increasingly shortening (in some cases to less than a year), except in Scotland where it uniquely lengthens and singularly means forever.
But remember nature abounds with singularities, at the eye of a hurricane the wind doesn’t blow at all, yet the wind nearby blows in any and every direction.
Something equally paradoxical happens at the North Pole, if you ask (in the style of Lewis Carrol) what time it is, it’s all times (snow joke).
All the time zones converge on the North Pole, so by stepping away from that singularity along different lines of longitude, you can put your self in any time zone you like and the time, yes that time is NOW.
#GenerationX
#EyesWideOpen