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The Abstainers Ride Again

Posted on October 26, 2015 by

So tonight the Labour Party tweeted this:


It’s a lie.

There were three votes in the Lords tonight on the Tories’ planned cuts to tax credits. The first was a Liberal Democrat amendment, called a “fatal” motion, which as the name suggests would have completely killed the plans. So worried were the Tories about it that David Cameron threatened to flood the Lords – which currently does NOT have a Tory majority – with new Tory peers if it passed.

Labour abstained on the amendment, which as a result failed by 99 votes to 310:


Social media exploded with rage, but Labour reacted angrily:


Murray was referring to the second and third motions, which rather than killing the cuts voted to ask the government to delay them and “protect” claimants on low incomes for three years. What exactly was meant by those changes was clearly explained by the Labour baroness who’d put forward the third amendment.


In other words, rather than the cuts having been stopped and the Tories being forced into an incredibly controversial and difficult gerrymandering of the second chamber:

– Anyone who becomes eligible for tax credits from now on will suffer the cuts immediately, without any three-year “protection”.

– Anyone already on tax credits will still suffer the cuts, but they’ll pay them through reductions in Universal Credit rather than tax credits.

– The total final amount of cuts will actually be HIGHER than those planned by the Conservatives.

We fully expect that spontaneous demonstrations and rallies from low-paid workers cheering Labour’s heroic intervention are breaking out in the streets even as we type this, as the grateful poor celebrate losing more money in a slightly different way to the one originally proposed. We’re off out for a look.


Previously in this series:

The Abstainers
Return Of The Abstainers
The Abstainers Go Fracking
In Bed With The Abstainers
The Abstainers: Abstain Harder
Excuses Of The Abstainers

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  1. 26 10 15 22:44

    The Abstainers Ride Again | Speymouth

  2. 27 10 15 01:03

    Craig Murray » Blog Archive » Garters in a Twist

  3. 27 10 15 09:15

    The Abstainers Ride Again | Politics Scotland |...

137 to “The Abstainers Ride Again”

  1. Macart says:

    Oh good grief.

    Just what are they for?

  2. Ryan J says:

    What an absolute farce the sooner we cut the infected UKOK limb from our body the better!
    Wings what a great job your doing people spread the word to our, Proud Scot but………. Brain doners / media sleepwalkers……

  3. mogabee says:

    I watched this with my partner, who is normally not that interested in political matters.

    Both of us were disappointed the first motion was defeated as the speeches all seemed to be pointing in that direction.

    Now, I realise that they never were intending to force a fatal motion.

    Shame on all of them, with their fine speeches and £300 a day. Shame on them.

  4. heedtracker says:

    Tories being forced into an incredibly controversial and difficult gerrymandering of the second chamber:

    So all together then Labour Lords, “We are the self preservation society…”

  5. Keith Hynd says:

    Animals 1966 “We gotta get out of this place”

    That’s all I have!

    This country is well and truly f***ked.

  6. Swami Backverandah says:

    The Tory talk of a constitutional crises was all bluster.
    There is no Constitutional crisis.
    The Tories aimed to sneak their tax credit cuts through the Parliament in a political instrument rather than including them in a Bill that would have been doomed to fail in the House of Commons.
    The Labour Party had a chance tonight to both call the Tory bluff on the Constitutional crisis and kill the devious instrument stone dead.
    But they abstained – again.

    Party of the Workers?

  7. Atypical_Scot says:

    Spot on.

  8. Matt McCamllu says:

    Labour have slunk to a new low in my opinion, Can’t believe they’re actually trying to defend this action, lower than a snakes belly. fecking awful…..

  9. HandandShrimp says:

    Labour still trying to ride two horses. Friend of the poor but tough with the economy.

    If Osborne is to be believed (which is a stretch I admit) then he is prepared to transition the credit cuts. This will help the poor for a year or two but it merely delays the inevitable and does nothing for young families just starting out.

    However Osborne and Cameron have a Flashmanesque vindictive streak. They will strike back at the HoL for this.

  10. Jim Mitchell says:

    Labour Lords, doesn’t that just say it all?

  11. Graeme Doig says:

    gesture noun [C] (MOVEMENT)
    C1 a ?movement of the ?hands, ?arms, or ?head, etc. to ?express an ?idea or ?feeling:

    The definition of ‘gesture’ was made for you and yours Ian Murray. How about you and your useless collection of hot air experts STOP gesturing and start acting in the interests of the people.

    No surprise really from a feeble minded party bereft of any conviction.

  12. Brian MCGraw says:

    That has to be be of the most cynical political spins designed to shaft the very people they purport to be defending. Despicable!

  13. Another Union Dividend says:

    The Temperance Party Candidate aka serial abstainer Ian Murray tweeted to-night that voting against the Tory cuts to tax credits was “the worst kind of gesture politics”.

    The same Ian Murray who said that voting for Indy would cost families £1400 a year but voting against cuts of £1400 for the poorest working families within the Union is just gesture politics.

  14. jimnarlene says:

    What’s the point of the Labour party? Anybody? I’m f***ed if I know. Shame on you, you bunch of spineless, selfserving baisturds.

  15. One_Scot says:

    It is imperative that we win the next referendum, if we don’t, God help us.

  16. NiallD says:

    The Labour Party are an absolute disgrace! They are supposed to be the opposition. What they are in reality are the accomplices! Corbyn is turning out to be a sheep in wolf’s clothing. Nothing has changed in the red Tory party.

    Oh …..and watch the Conservatives flood the House of Lords with Tory peers anyway. Mone of Mayfair a case in point.

  17. Osprey MacIntyre says:

    About time for a Labstain or similar Tag? I suspect there will be more articles of this nature…

  18. Lesley-Anne says:

    So according th Labour’s SOLE representative from S******d:

    1)Labour have won the right to punish new claimants immediately.

    2) Anyone who is currently on Tax Credits now has 3YEARS to plan for THEIR loss of financial support.

    3) We can all look forward to the records showing that the RED Tories, NOT the BLUE Tories have managed to cut FASTER AND DEEPER than anyone planned.

    Can someone remind me again, which party is the party of the people for the people?

    Some how I just can’t see it being either the RED or BLUE Tories myself.

    One final wee thought here … was it not the RED Tories who some time ago, 2010 I think, made this exact claim that they would cut faster and deeper than the BLUE Tories?

  19. One_Scot says:

    Is it just me or is anyone else getting seriously fed up with Labour lying all the time and getting away with it.

  20. Clootie says:

    Black is White
    To abstain is to deflect attention to a worthless amendment.

    For how much longer will people accept Labours manipulation of the truth?
    They are only interested in power politics NOT people.

  21. John Jones says:

    Typical Labour, we keep hearing the same mantra over & over again, yes, we will repeal the Tory union/labour laws, yes, we will control the banks by self regulation, yes, we will vote against the Tory changes in welfare.etc,etc, ad infin.
    What do you mean? Abstaining is not opposition?
    I,now, begin to understand rioting in the streets.

  22. neil bruce says:

    If these cuts are punted 3 years down the road,and it takes a year to actually implement them, then that would coincide with the start of the 2020 election.

    Now call me cynical, but could this be the red tories
    devious little plan, zero concern about the effect of
    cuts on the public, only concern, electoral gain.

  23. heedtracker says:

    Future Lord Neil of Oxford Street.

    Neil Findlay ?@Neil_FindlayMSP 15h15 hours ago
    What is happening in Portugal is a democratic outrage yet the silence from European leaders is deafening!
    12 retweets 5 favorites
    Reply Retweet 12 Favorite 5

    Good olde red tories, or-

    What is happening in teamGB is a democratic outrage yet those slots at the HoL trough are so tasty and they can never get you out either, not even if you shag p…..tutes and snort c…aine of them.


  24. NiallD says:

    Osprey MacIntyre@9.35 “About time for a Labstain or similar Tag? ”

    Labstain …….. brilliant!

  25. Dave the Squirrel says:

    “We’re all in this together” was the cry.

    You weren’t f***ing kidding lads were you.

    Tories – scum to your face
    Labour – scum behind your back, while treating you like a braindead idiot.

  26. One_Scot says:

    We can only pray that the penny drops with ‘No’ voters before they totally destroy us.

  27. sinky says:

    Lesley Anne

    Thats blinking ridiculous from Murray

  28. Petra says:

    Let’s hope that all of this is reported truthfully on the BBC, STV, in the Daily Record, Mail, Guardian, Express etc etc.

    Time is truly running out for the Labour Party in general and the House of Lords specifically.

    Time’s running out for Ian Murray too. His lie (latest one) will be travelling around social media at the speed of light.

  29. Terry says:

    Why oh why do none of these labour politicos break rank? They’re an embarrassment and a disgrace but surely one of them has a conscience and will reject the hollow shell that this party has become?

    Just seen suffragette. Brilliant film. Showed how the majority of women didn’t want the vote. Echoes of the Indy campaign. Maybe it’s time for more direct action? There are people dying and committing suicide because of these heartless Psychopaths.

  30. Jamie Arriere says:

    Jesus Christ, Labour. Forcing the Tories to bulldoze it through or flood the Lords with extra peers, could have nailed the cuts and the trauma entirely on them, and won you the next election.

    But you’re just not up to it.

    Labstain?…PISHSTAIN mair like

  31. Kragos says:

    The Labour spin machine is in full gear tonight on Twitter, trying to distort the truth of their latest atrocity. Murray and Foulkes’ trolling is at an all time high just now, but not going to be baited by them.

    I’ve no doubt the MSM will call it a Labour victory.

  32. One_Scot says:

    Seriously, if Scotland couldn’t win a referendum tomorrow, something is seriously F’d up somewhere.

  33. Lesley-Anne says:

    sinky says:
    26 October, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Lesley Anne
    Thats blinking ridiculous from Murray

    In fairness Sinky it IS Ian Murray we are talking about so I guess this is about as good as it gets from him. 😀

    I wonder how he feels about latest figures on the cost of the American controlled White Elephant replacement programme. 😉

  34. Thepnr says:

    Seriously did you expect anything better? We are talking about Lords, Barons, Earls, Bishops, Vicounts, Countesses and Dames here.

    Would you really have believed any of these ermine wearing scum gives a shit about Joe Bloggs and his tax credits?

    Nah, thought not.

  35. manandboy says:

    One_Scot says:9:36 pm
    Is it just me or is anyone else getting seriously fed up with Labour lying all the time and getting away with it.”

    Tories and Labour ‘lying all the time and getting away with it’ is a pretty good description of politics in North Korea. But what is also interesting is that more and more people in the UK, notably Unionist party voters, are behaving like the people of N Korea, who are taken in by it all.
    We are on the way to a totalitarian State, which is precisely what the Tories want, and they have already demonstrated clearly the ability to treat their own citizens very harshly – as in N Korea.
    With nuclear weapons already in place, and a weakening democracy, what price peace and stability in the UK with extremist, unhinged and obsessed Tories in charge.

    We’ll have all the answers in less than four years.

  36. ScottieDog says:

    Just caught glimpse of BBC news reporting huge win for labour.

  37. heedtracker says:

    Neil Findlay Retweeted
    JeremyCorbyn4PM ?@JeremyCorbyn4PM 2h2 hours ago
    In a 2nd defeat for Govt, Hollis motion carried that delays introduction of tax credit cuts. Great victory for common sense. #WorkingPenalty
    203 retweets 213 favorites

    Yay! Go SLaabstainers especially, delays are great. Hope Lord Flipper of Mayfair abstain too, he’s got soooooooooo much integrity n shit.

  38. Iain More says:

    I didn’t expect anything else from those that adorn themselves in coats of deid stoat.

    I think I have been beaten to what I wanted to say by others already – spineless, corrupt, self serving Labour bastirts. Those Union Dividends just keep coming and coming.

  39. Graeme Doig says:

    ‘Can someone remind me again, which party is the party of the people for the people?’

    That would be the SNP Lesley Anne. Do i win a prize? 🙂

    ‘ A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.’ (James 1:8 King James Version (KJV))

    Labour have a huge problem and are currently no use to anyone.

  40. onelessday says:

    Vote won by 211

    Labstainers 213

    If these numbers are correct Labstainers action is even worse than it first looks, if that is possible

  41. Lesley-Anne says:

    Think you may right there Graeme cause I’ll tell you something for nothing … it certainly is NOT the Labour party … English Labour party, branch office of Englandshire Labour party or any other version of Labour party anyone can think of!

  42. manandboy says:

    The UK State Propaganda machine spearheaded by the BBC, reports the HoL vote as a defeat for the Government. Reports of David Cameron and George Osborne seen together immediately after the vote, laughing uncontrollably, are as yet unconfirmed.

  43. Robert Peffers says:

    Did any of us really expect them to act otherwise?

    They are,after all, just Tories who wear red ties and red blouses, (and that’s just the males).

    I think what the females wear is described by them as, “unmentionables”.

    Mind you there are a few exceptions and we all know about Ian Murray’s poor taste in jaikits and the expression fur coats an nae drawers.

  44. Paula Rose says:

    So basically this is the upper echelons of the Labour party agreeing with the ‘austerity’ politics of the Tories?

  45. Martin says:

    I’ve wondered for some time now. Is it that the Labour party is full of idiots? Or is it just that they believe the rest of us to be idiots?
    I’ve decided it’s a bit of both. There have to be some clever people in the Labour party, who clearly believe we are all idiots.
    But there are also plenty of idiots in the Labour party, who believe that it’s the rest of us who are the idiots. Ian Murray being case in point.

  46. heedtracker says:

    JC says its delay, future Lord Ian Murray says its defeat, via BBC lie machine. Well someone is not being honest. Surely its not the world’s greatest public sector broadcast/liars

    Ian Murray ?@IanMurrayMP 3m3 minutes ago
    Just in case anyone is in any doubt about what Labour achieved in the House of Lords tonight (cc @NicolaSturgeon)

    8 Sec clip of BBC says its tory defeat.

  47. Ian says:

    What will it take to get the vast majority of the Labour/No voters realise that they are being shafted by duplicitous wannabees. They’re cutting their own throats as well.

  48. cearc says:

    Meanwhile, it turns out that the ‘shares for rights’ scheme was not aimed at the workers at all but was in fact another tax scam for the very rich, with the loss to the treasury piling up fast.

  49. Petra says:

    Well there you go! The BBC reporting at 10PM stated that it ”was a magnificent win for Labour”. I was going to say that you couldn’t make it up but they do and just have done once again.

    I wonder what Kezia Dugdale will have to say about this ……… watching and waiting.

  50. msean says:

    So another abstention happens,this time in the house of lords, where the labour abstainers don’t even have to justify doing so to anyone as they aren’t elected.

    Tories will just make more lords from donors and mates,keeping the lords going for another few decades.

  51. RJF says:

    You’re barking up the wrong tree on this one Campbell. The Government used a Statutory Instrument for the tax credit cuts to reduce the debate on it in the Commons and avoid awkward politics. If the fatal motion had been passed, the Government would have been able to start over with a finance bill, suffer through the angry op-eds, but then three-line whip it through the Commons and then the Lords would not be able to resist it with the convention that the Lords doesn’t oppose money bills. The delaying amendments that have passed are more substantively effective because they tie the government in to making changes.

    The SNP in the meantime have been useless and ineffective for both fatal and delaying motions.

  52. Roll_On_2015 says:

    OT – Breaking News

    Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party perceived as ‘increasingly incompetent’, says poll

    Even one in four of Labour’s current supporters agree with the statement

    The public believes that Labour looks “increasingly incompetent” under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership by a margin of almost 2-1, according to an opinion poll for The Independent.


  53. One_Scot says:

    I honestly don’t believe it is right that people should have to pay the BBC to be lied to and misled.

  54. Bill Fraser says:

    There is no true opposition to the tories and labour have surly underlined this fact with the shambles at Westminster tonight.Sorry about the non-capitals in both their party names,but I don’t think either of them warrant it.

  55. Sandy Henderson says:

    Scotland 2015;-
    Another sweeping statement tonight by Ruth Davidson.
    The majority of Scots want trident renewal. Did she mean majority tory supporters. That being the case, finger counting. Boy, doesn’t she let that somewhat noticable belly rumble.

  56. deerokus says:

    This feels like this whole thing was a sideshow intended to be a mutual facesaving exercise from the start at the expense of the working poor.

  57. heedtracker says:

    The delaying amendments that have passed are more substantively effective because they tie the government in to making changes.

    Sure they do. Its a pretty neat shyste as UKOK shystes go though. Even “making changes” is red and blue tory con.

  58. sinky says:

    Labour north British branch had a deficit of £130,000 last year so best not vote for them

  59. Molly says:


    Bollox , don’t tell me the people on £300 quid a day , care one jot about people losing £1500 plus.

    1. They looked after the establishment by not stopping the bill altogether

    2. A system where citizens have to rely on an unelected chamber to decide where they eat or not , is a disgrace to democracy

    3. The political parties played silly beggars by deferring it to nearer the next election, where they can get their kicks out of going through the motions again.

    SOS , has anyone seen John McKay, George Foulkes seems to have taken over the STV studio ?

  60. Cadogan Enright says:

    Radio 4 BBC news said ‘gov suffered major defeat’ but did not mention that the proposal was only delayed not defeated – and that Labour had abstained on the real vote.

    Meanwhile I was amazed to see RT run rings around the BBC on Syria and winning the info wars hands down – the BBC is in free fall

    My all-time favourite graph

    Buy the National, cover something else

  61. Westviews says:

    Ian Murray is probably just trying to keep up with Alistair Carmichael. Unionists seem to excell at lying to their constituents.

    It also looks like SLab have decided they no longer want to exist in Scotland. Either that or they assume that Scots are too stupid to realise that they’re being lied to.

  62. Alastair says:

    Sorry you are wrong. The bill was rushed through before details of the effects could be worked on and understood. Now that the IFS and charities have done the maths some of their own MP’s are against the bill. 8 have signed the motion for the opposition debate in the Commons on Thursday removing their majority. They would need to gamble on the whip working. The media and the country puts all the momentum against the bill as it stands even if it becomes a finance bill.
    There will be a vote at the end of Thursday’s debate. Will be interesting.

  63. Swami Backverandah says:

    @ RJF

    “If the fatal motion had been passed, the Government would have been able to start over with a finance bill, suffer through the angry op-eds, but then three-line whip it through the Commons and then the Lords would not be able to resist it with the convention that the Lords doesn’t oppose money bills.”

    All a bit disingenuous from you there.
    The point being that if it had to go into a finance Bill through the Commons, there wouldn’t be a chance it would get voted through in the form it was presented as a statutory instrument.
    Or why didn’t Osborne just do it in the first place if they wanted financial privilege?

    Smoke and mirrors fail.

  64. Lesley-Anne says:

    sinky says:
    26 October, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    Labour north British branch had a deficit of £130,000 last year so best not vote for them

    Lest we forget Sinky one of their Edinburgh constituencies is undergoing a police investigation, I think, over the *cough* disappearance of £10,000 from their funds. 😉

    Personally, the fact that Labour branch office is £130,000 in DEBT tells me that they are BUST!

  65. Iain More says:


    Semantic BS! Labour caved into Tory Blackmail threats to flood the Lords. Brit Labour Party – Gutless, Spineless, Shifty as always! They don’t tie the Tories into making any changes at all. It is pure BS!

  66. Krodgers says:

    If they had stopped the bill it would have returned in a very short period of time (albeit slightly reworded) and been represented with a Tory majority in the Lords. That would have been dumb.

    Labour and co actually did the smart thing, they have delayed the bill so that it cannot take effect until close to the end of this parliament which means those who will suffer will do so for a shorter time and everyone will remember it when the next election comes.

    It isn’t ideal, but to get an ideal result you have to control the HoC, not the Lords.

  67. davidb says:

    Irrespective of the point scoring, or indeed the outcome, as yet unclear.

    I do not accept the authority of any unelected body to dictate legislation.

    If the fatal motion had passed, and the Tories had added another bunch of Bra tycoons, then surely the days of that affront to democracy would have been numbered. I rather hoped the Guardian comments would be from democrats, but see the usual partisan guff. Oooh we beat Gideon. Using the “votes” of unelected appointees, party donors, bishops, and comic singers?

    What a bunch of eejits we have when we had the chance to escape from this, and they chose to vote naw. Bloody fools.

  68. tartanfever says:

    RJF –

    what you fail to consider (and even the Telegraph have mentioned it) is that Osbourne can now just amend the finance bill currently passing through the Commons and instigate the tax credit cuts through other means.

    from the Telegraph-

    ‘Mr Osborne will now be forced to consider ways of mitigating the cuts. He could still consider wrapping the tax credit reforms into the finance bill – which is passing through the Commons’

    So instead of the Tories facing huge public criticism caused by the supporting of the fatal motion, a minor victory has been awarded to unelected peers, the Tories are currently being made to look as though they’ve softened their stance and the reality is that other means will be used by Osbourne to hit the poorest in society.

    Well done you and your ilk.

  69. caledonia says:

    Just got an email telling me to go on twitter #labstain as its trending

  70. caledonia says:

    We knew they would lie so best way to counter this to tell anyone losing money that labour said this was a great victory

  71. Phronesis says:

    ‘The whole management and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watching over your welfare.It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples’
    Squealer, Animal Farm Chapter 3

  72. Dr Jim says:

    Labour manage to Fukc us again (is it stupidity? is it?)

    SNP Baad:

    But what can you do, it’s a cult thing and I’m a victim, I can’t help myself so: Vote SNP+SNP

    And we’ll pay the Bastirts back

    We’ve only got one wee bit of power (vote) but there’s a lot of us and that’s a lot of power to Fukc them with

  73. DerekM says:

    I see the Labour party have done what they always do look after themselves,i have even seen claims so far that this is a victory for democracy which is a bit of a funny statement when you consider this was in the unelected House of Lords.

    Others are spot on Labour abstained to keep their dominance in the HoL,though they are thick as shit because now the tories will flood the HoL anyway and the bill will be passed next time it comes up.

    They had a chance to kill it stone dead and decided not to for political gain at the cost of the electorate,truly despicable.

    The best of it is now they want us to clap and cheer them after they allowed the bill to pass through the commons in the first place,fuck you Labour we are not buying your posturing political bullshit.

  74. RJF says:

    Molly: Lords can claim up to £300 for expenses if they are present on a day that the House is sitting – seeing as the House is only there for a limited portion of the year even if a Lord could be there for literally every day of Parliament and could claim the absolute maximum they still would have less than the salary of an MP, before you add on MP expenses too. Lords, unlike MPs, also don’t receive salaries or index-linked pensions. A Lord costs little more than a sixth of an MP – and even though there are a third more Lords than MPs, the cost of the house is 75% less than the Commons.

    You might have legitimate reasons to criticse the House of Lords, but cost and government largesse is not one of them – Lords are figures of parsimony compared to MPs.

    tartanfever: Not at all. Even if the wind is blowing against tax credit cuts a fatal motion would have allowed the government to quietly brush it under the carpet. Labour’s motion compels the government to report on the effects of the cuts so their full impact will be put on public display in an incontrovertible way which can’t be denied by the government, which is far more painful and awkward for them and costs them politically even if they want now to drop it. The Hollis amendment was the better one.

    Everyone else: what did the SNP contribute to the debate tonight? Did they advance any arguments in the House, propose any motions, vote on any amendments? There could be dozens of SNP Lords to block Tory policies by now but you excluded yourselves – the holier-than-thou attitude might play well with your more revolutionary members but the only practical result is to futilely limit your party’s relevance. The Lib Dems have an official policy of Lords reform but they recognise that it is still a legally relevant body and it needs to have dissenting voices in it – that’s why they were even able to propose the fatal motion in the first place. Maybe it could have passed if there were more SNP lords to support them. So your carping at other parties from the sidelines comes over a lot like sour grapes at your own short-sightedness.

  75. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Maybe it could have passed if there were more SNP lords to support them”

    Sure, if there were 212 of them.

  76. geeo says:

    O/T sorry, but been watching dugdale become ‘more autonomous on Scotland Tonight…????.

    My take on it, feel free to correct and wrong details..thanks.

    Car Crash Kez (CCK) strikes again….helped by Corbyn, to be completely deceptive to people in Scotland.

    Corbyn and CCK have both signed a “letter of intent” to make ‘Scottish labour’ MORE autonomous.
    This was witnessed by Corbyn’s deputy leader.

    This should concern the electorate all over the uk, but particularly those in Scotland.

    After this ‘event’, CCK announced that TODAY’s events …”put to bed for good, any notion that scottish labour WERE a branch office”

    A stunning day in politics in Scotland you may think….and you would be correct !

    It is utterly MIND BLOWING that the labour party expect ANYONE with the slightest clue about how politics works, to believe this UTTERLY DECEPTIVE DRIVEL.

    CCK basically admits that ‘scottish’ labour WAS previously a branch office with her quote above.

    With that in mind, let us examine what they are NOW.

    The aforementioned 2 labour leaders involved signed a “letter of intent”, they did NOT sign a legally binding agreement of ANY kind, so this ‘intent’ can be quietly forgotten about AFTER the 2016 SG elections, for example..(call me a cynic).

    What precisely is MORE autonomous anyway ?

    Seems clear enough….autonomy means being independent. So how do you become MORE autonomous than being independent exactly ?

    Now, it is STILL a legal FACT that this newly autonomous/independent ‘scottish’ labour party is NOT registered as a political party in the uk as required by ELECTORAL COMMISSION law, so in REALITY, absolutely NOTHING has changed from before, ‘scottish’ labour is still, and always was, a regional accountancy unit. (branch office).

    This proves that the farce today with the 2 labour leaders was no more than a publicity stunt designed to fool Scottish Voters into believing the absolute LIE presented as fact, in the hope of helping their electoral chances in 2016.

    The other issue, is that Corbyn has also shown his true colours by going along with this farce to lie to and con Scottish voters.

    If they claim to ACTUALLY believe this drivel today as true, then they are ALSO admitting they do NOT KNOW the legal position regarding the constitution of the labour party itself.

    So, are the labour leadership utterly INEPT, or are they deceptive liars holding the Scottish electorate in utter contempt ?

    Either way, it looks very bad for the future chances of both Corbyn and Car Crash Kez (CCK).

  77. Grouse Beater says:

    The ‘British’ Labour party – if you don’t consider yourself British, and don’t enjoy neo-liberal economics, Labour is not for you.

    But if you admire Cameron, think Thatcher was a great prime minister, and James Bond is a real person, then welcome to the LaboraTory Party.

  78. stephen marks says:

    Under the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949 any ‘Money Bill’ which has passed through the Commons automatically receives the Royal Assent one month after being introduced into the Lords whether the Lords pass it or not; and they cannot amend it. But this does not apply to a ‘statutory instrument’ which is what was voted on tonight. However there is also a Parliamentary rule that you cannot have two pieces of legislation on the same subject going through Parliament at the same time. So if the legislation had been voted down tonight as the LibDems proposed the Tories could simply have tacked it onto the Budget Bill which is still going through the Commons. In which case the Lords could not have voted on it at all. So passing the LibDem amendment would not have ‘killed it stone dead’ – it would have given it a new lease of life. As it is the whole thing is delayed for three years i.e. the runup to the next election thus foiling Osborne’s plan to get the worst Tory plans over quickly and have a nice surplus for tax handouts before the next election. And as the measure is not killed but still ‘on the table’ they cannot go through the alternative ‘money bill’ route. The reason the Tories chose to do it through a statutory instrument instead is that they are subject to less Parliamentary scrutiny [only one debate instead of three readings and no committee stage] but it has blown up in their faces. Really you guys should make your minds up whether your main priority is to score party points against Labour [on the basis of inaccurate information] or to deliver actual help to those in the firing line of Tory policies.

  79. ClanDonald says:

    @RJF says :

    “You’re barking up the wrong tree on this one Campbell….The delaying amendments that have passed are more substantively effective because they tie the government in to making changes.”

    Yes, we know this is your official line, but the Rev has just explained why these so-called changes are practically meaningless. Millions of families across the UK will still suffer massive cuts, just by different means. As Labour’s own Baroness Hollis explains.

  80. K1 says:

    There is no Labour party.

    They go on like they did leading up to the election about how they are the party that represents the ‘workers’ and even though it’s obvious they are supposed to represent the least among us; the poor the vulnerable, those who cannot ‘do’ for themselves. They spouted what they assumed middle England wanted to hear, to make themselves electable.

    But they are not even a party that represents the ‘workers’. Those who by virtue of the lack of a living wage, have to have their incomes topped up by the tax credits. Will now find themselves quite literally on the bread line.

    Such is the ceaseless greed, though it is termed ‘aspirational’, nice little spin there, and the constant promotion of the business and corporate sectors. Who in their infinite chase for financial supremacy and security, see no problem with paying wages that keep people just out of survival and no more. To keep their profit margins lucrative.

    Rather than force business and corporate entities to pay a living wage, they, the elite group, BritnatPlc, which is disguised as differing shades of political ideology and who also happen to be directors and advisors in these same sectors. Have hatched between themselves a cunning plan:

    To impoverish the least among us further.

    Why? Ask yourself this:

    1)Why have those sectors Not increased the wages to meet the living wage criteria?

    2)By reducing tax credits, will this now ‘force’ these sectors to implement the living wage?

    3)Who benefits by taking away the tax credits?

    1)Because it ‘hurts’ their profits. That’s why they pay low wages. It’s their unwillingness to pay a living wage that in essence required a response from the government who implemented Tax credits to deal with this ‘fact’.

    2)No, they will attempt to get away with paying the least amount they can. They’ve already stripped back workers rights with zero hour contracts, which clearly keeps the shareholders dividends ‘competitive’.

    3)The business and corporate sectors benefit. There will be even more desperate people prepared to take any kind of work to get more money to make ends meet.

    The logic seems to be this:

    Screw the bottom end to force the upper end to make concessions.

    Because they will not acknowledge and deal with the greed of those sectors. That would be like hurting ‘family’.

    So, it is ideological. The poor are to blame for being poor. Even though what makes us poor is a lack of decent wages, which is caused by the ‘wealth creators’ not paying the workers the wages that would ensure more wealth pumped into the economy.

    Because people don’t or haven’t grasped yet, that we are the wealth makers…if we don’t buy the fucking stuff, the business and corporate sectors would crumble. Without us they are nothing.

    We just keep putting up wi it. And for years bought the line that the Labour party understood this and were our representatives in the governing sector, looking out for our interests.

    Which is a total fucking lie.

    There is no Labour party.

  81. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    RJF at 11.59

    The comparative low cost of the Lords (circa £100 million per annum) is because there are fewer sittings and most of them don’t turn up much of the time.
    Quite a lot of them collect very little and others collect huge sums of money for little more than signing in to most sessions.

    I am very satisfied there are no SNP members in it

  82. manandboy says:

    An interview with George Osborne by Laura Kuenssberg after the vote on Tax Credits in the House of Lords :-

    G.O. “Tonight, unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have defeated a financial matter, passed by the elected House of Commons, and David Cameron and I are clear that this raises constitutional issues that need to be dealt with.
    However it has happened and now we must address the consequences of that.

    I said I would listen and that’s precisely what I intend to do. I believe we can achieve the same goal of reforming tax credits, saving the money we need to save to secure our economy, while at the same time helping in the transition. That is what I intend to do at the Autumn Statement. I am determined to deliver that lower welfare , higher wage economy that we were elected to deliver and the British people want to see.”

    L.K. “But you’ve had a very clear message from the Lords tonight about the need to do something quite drastic potentially – what will your transitional measures be; and you’ve talked very strongly about the House of Lords, will you take action against them, to punish them?”

    G.O. ” Well, let’s be clear, unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have voted down a matter passed by the elected House of Commons. That raises constitutional issues and David Cameron and I are clear they will need to be dealt with ..”

    L.K. ” how, what will you do..”

    G.O. “Well, you will see the approach we will take. On tax credits, I said I would listen, to the concerns that have been raised, and that’s precisely what I will do. I think we can achieve the same goal of reforming these tax credits, securing the money we need to ensure our economy is safe, and at the same time helping in the transition to these changes, and I will set out how we achieve that at the Autumn Statement, because we were elected to deliver this lower welfare higher wage economy and that is precisely what we are going to do.”

    L.K. ” But Chancellor, you also said this was a judgement call, and it was your judgement, and it turned out to be wrong. That’s damaging for you isn’t it?”

    G.O. ” Well let’s be clear. Labour and Liberal Lords who are not elected have voted against measures in a Conservative Budget, and that raises constitutional issues; I think what people want to know is how we are going to approach the tax credits issue, I said I would listen and we are going to listen to the concerns that have been raised and I’ve set out the approach we’ll take.”

    The statements highlighted are what G.O. had to say. He repeats a lot.

  83. msean says:

    ” your more revolutionary members” Labour used to be the revolutionaries,now they are lords.

  84. geeo says:

    Yada yada georgie boy…i assume the UNELECTED Tory Peers did not vote then….?

    Idiot !

  85. charlie says:

    I can’t believe Corbyn didn’t want the Hse of Lords Labour Party to vote against all of it. Mebbe he bottled it. Anyhoo constitutional apparently – so therefore general election now!

  86. RJF says:

    Campbell: You wouldn’t need to have 200 Lords to significantly alter the dynamics of the House, though, given how you could have influenced Lords appointments over the years or have been able to set up a bigger voting bloc to make more practical appeals to the crossbench peers. Instead your not-so-splendid isolation jeopardises the welfare of millions of people.

    The SNP will need to come to terms with that for all of its fuming on social media, what it contributed tonight was the square root of diddly-squat.

  87. ClanDonald says:

    @geeo: as soon as the autonomous Scottish Labour Party start trying to lure voters back from the SNP with Scotland-only policies like free tuition, prescriptions, eye tests, top ups to benefits etc the Labour voters in England will go off their heads.

    Can you imagine their rage when they realise that Labour are offering the sweaty socks a load of “freebies” that they aren’t offering the English? And if Kez thinks she’ll get away with it by reassuring them that we’ll all be paying for it with a big rise in income tax, plenty Scots will tell her to take a hike.

    Sadly for them this autonomy business isn’t going to be their saviour. In fact it’ll probably drive the right-leaning labour unionists over to babe Ruthy.

  88. DerekM says:

    Maybe it could have passed if there were more SNP lords to support them”

    What part of we want the HoL scrapped and will not put anybody into an unelected chamber that is an affront to democracy dont you understand Labour numpty.

    And while we are still part of this fuck up called the UK we will fight tooth and nail against you lying fuckers.

    2016/2017 Labour your time is up!

  89. Daisy Walker says:

    to the tune of ‘What a friend we have in Jesus’

    Whats the point in voting Labour
    They will only just abstain
    Except when claiming their expenses
    that they do, time and time, again

    They were only flipping houses
    They were only starting wars
    Not a socialist amongst them
    Sold out for the house of lords

    Whats the point in voting Labour
    They will only just abstain
    Except when voting for their pay rise
    Then these feckkers have no shame

    They blame they poor and the disabled
    They blame the migrants at the docks
    But most of all, when all else fails them
    They blame it on the bloody Jocks

    Repeat first…

  90. Valerie says:

    Disgusting performance by Labour, but they always live down to our expectations, they really ARE a tragic joke.

    Off topic

    Bella has a lengthy academic article by the Cuthberts on the Neil v. Wings budget figures.

    The Carmichael campaigners are getting together some great perks for donations, like mugs etc using that clever artwork!

  91. msean says:

    Most are quite happy that there is no snp reps in the house of lords,however many they might have had,the tories would just make more. Labour would do that too.Would just end up with even more pointless, unelected undemocratic unrepresentative lords.

  92. Ken says:

    The problem is that had the Liberal motion succeeded the government could have brought the measure back as a money bill which the Lords cannot touch. They should have done that in the first place, but decided to be cute instead.

  93. geeo says:


    They would have had to admit pre election that tax credits would be cut, rather than pretend to deny it.

  94. The Man in the Jar says:

    Independence as soon as possible. The only logical choice.

    And a big “thanks to all NO voters for all of this avoidable pish. Delaying what must surely now be inevitable.

  95. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, good article.

    Labour did do the right thing in the Lords, delaying works, but trying to kill the cuts wouldn’t in the Lords, it would have been sent back ultimately and the Lords defeated – and weakened. So Labour did get a great victory, even if one brought about by the House of Lords not Commons, one which will go down well with people on tax credits and with Middle England as well. A good juggling act.

    But Ian Murray is a gift, he should have kept quiet. What he’s done is open opportunities like this article, to show that in fact, Labour are still in favour of tax credits, and ultimately people will still suffer. Not good politics in Scotland. Good lad.

    I kind of like him though, he leads with his mouth – or fingers before engaging brain.

  96. ScotsCanuck says:


    … actually I believe Corbyn would be better described as “a sheep with no clothing”, n’est pas ?

  97. The Man in the Jar says:

    Can you imagine any other country getting itself into such constitutional wrangling just to satisfy a small percentage of its voting public? What a shithole Westminster is. And dont get me started about Scottish Police and Fire and Rescue still having to pay VAT. What’s that all about?

    Holyrood is far from perfect but it shines like a beacon of democracy compared to that lot. Coming to think of it there’s a very long list of things that are far more democratic than Westminster.

  98. tartanfever says:

    RJF – All Labour have done is protect their own arses, especially Labour peers. The poor people of this country will now be hammered as Osbourne adjusts the current finance bill to mitigate events this evening in the House of Lords.

    The fatal motion would have endangered too many Labour and Liberal unelected peers and that was the ultimate threat and their concern, not the poor people of this country who will undoubtedly be more worse off in both the short and long term.

    I’m so glad the SNP are not part of this house of cards. Your entire rhetoric tonight has been one of superior arrogance and not one genuine concern for what will happen in the coming months to those who will be affected by these in humane austerity cuts.

    Your policy of politics before people is precisely the reason Unionist parties have taken a beating here in Scotland, it’s completely insincere.

  99. yesindyref2 says:

    The Cuthbert’s article is good, but it misses completely the point that the Scottish Government has no control over what Westminster gives it to spend on things the SG actually controls the spending on.

    As far as I can see that’s the fiscal DEL only, not fiscal DEL plus non-domestic rates. Non-domestic rates are indeed under the ScotGov’s control, but the fiscal DEL isn’t. That’s what was the point of Andrew Neil catching out Angus Robertson, and that was the point Rev was making.

    Neil asked by how much had the Scottish Government budget been cut in the past five or six years, that’s “been cut” – i.e. passive, NOT how much it might have increased or decreased its own controllable part of additions to the revenues i.e. active.

    So “our conclusion will be that truth, (or a reasonable judgement of what the truth might be), lies somewhere between these two positions.” is incorrect.

    You have to look at the language used, not just the maths.

  100. manandboy says:

    Until now I have failed to grasp the nature and extent of the ‘high wage-low welfare’ UK which the Tories have set themselves to create, in response, so they say, to the people who elected them to power in May, even though they were a minority of the population.

    If the Tory plan is fulfilled, the UK is going to become very different indeed to what most of us have grown up with. It has already begun with the changeover to an austerity economy, with major cuts to public services and benefits payments, and the start of food banks.

    Do not imagine for a moment that these changes will only last until the UK gets back on it’s feet again. The Tories have no plan for a UK recovery. Instead, we’re heading in a whole new direction in which only the very wealthy will be on their feet while the rest of us will be on our knees.

    Great Britain, as we have known it since WWII, is almost dead.

    I suspect most people don’t realise that. But, rest assured, within four years, the whole of the UK will know it only too well.

    Scotland has the possibility of going it’s own way of course, and this time we have to get it right. It is impossible to overstate the vital importance of Scotland achieving Independence. It has always been important. But now, with impending doom about to take hold in rUK, it is both important and urgent because of the danger threatening Scotland from down South.

    Very soon, everyone in Scotland will have to decide again to either become Independent or to remain as part of the UK. But it is vital that everyone learns that the UK of the future is going to be a much worse off place for ordinary people than it used to be. Poverty, not seen here, except in films of poor countries in eastern Europe, Africa or parts of Central and South America, is coming here – if Scotland stays in the Tory ruled UK.

    Through the BBC, ITV and the Press, this Tory government, aided by Labour and the Lib Dems, will try every day, to persuade Scotland not to believe the evidence of our own eyes and ears. They will promise us the earth as they did in Indy14. But again, they will fail to deliver and instead we will find ourselves much, much worse off.

    The future for Scotland in a Tory UK is poverty.
    With Independence, the future for Scotland is a hundred times better.

    Vote SNP always, to secure your future.

  101. Platinum says:

    RJF says:
    26 October, 2015 at 11:59 pm
    Molly: Lords can claim up to £300 for expenses if they are present on a day that the House is sitting – seeing as the House is only there for a limited portion of the year even if a Lord could be there for literally every day of Parliament and could claim the absolute maximum they still would have less than the salary of an MP, before you add on MP expenses too.

    Using that same logic if I work 40 hours a week for 50 weeks at minimum wage, I should actually be paid at 4.3 times that rate because there are 8736 hours in the year, but I’m only actually working for 2000 of them – less than a quarter of the year! That rate would still be less than that of an MP, and I obviously wouldn’t be claiming expenses on top of that, so by definition, that must be an acceptable salary for me. I think RJF just solved poverty.


    “- Anyone already on tax credits will still suffer the cuts, but they’ll pay them through reductions in Universal Credit rather than tax credits.”

    is certainly NOT my understanding from watching the Upper House debate last evening.

    The crux of the issue is that the Government would NOT accrue its £4.4Billion via ANY benefit cuts whatsoever ~ but that instead, it would replace it from taxes increasing from the rolling out of the minimum wage improvements. Those were calculated to initially bring in £750Million per annum, rising yearly(?) to £1.5Billion, £2.25Billion… as each incremental step was achieved.
    Thus exceeding the planned £4.4Billion saving already.

    Add to this allowance of the immediate Tax Credit cuts for new claimants, plus the eventual additional from the staged TC reductions for prior claimants – and the Government will actually get a good percentage of that original figure too, probably at least £2Billion!

    The ONLY complaint that Messrs. Osborne, Cameron, et al can legitimately hold, is why their own advisors didn’t think of this in the first place.

    Of course, cynics might add that the Govt. was kinda ‘hiding a light under a bushel’ with known tax increase revenues from raising the minimum wage, anyway, hoping to be able to produce it later as a ‘rabbit outta the hat’ surplus surprise – after the TC cuts furore had dissipated. But that’s just cynics, eh?

    Kudos to the Upper House & p!ss on The Other Place!

  103. john king says:

    Keith Hynd says
    “Animals 1966 “We gotta get out of this place”

    That’s all I have! ”

    Sometimes Keith
    less is more
    nuff said.

    Terry says
    “Just seen suffragette. Brilliant film. Showed how the majority of women didn’t want the vote. Echoes of the Indy campaign.”

    Theres lessons to learned from that Terry
    some kind of Stockholm syndrome maybe?

    The point is if a majority didnt want it how did the minority win?

    Sandy Henderson says
    ” Boy, doesn’t she let that somewhat noticable belly rumble.”

    Oohh remind me not to get into a slaning match with you
    Heedtracker says
    “Sure they do. Its a pretty neat shyste as UKOK shystes go though. Even “making changes” is red and blue tory con.”

    sometimes it takes a while heedy
    of course its a scam
    we’re being taken for
    mugs,chumps,suckers,schlemeils,oh noooo…
    birdbrains morons,
    oh my god Rev Stu’ll kill me…
    cretins, simpletons ,turkeys,clods, halfwits, lamebrains
    oohhh nooo theres nae brakes

    please dont kill me Rev 🙁

  104. Blind Squirrel says:

    New folk becoming eligable won’t face the tax credits cut – it’s not a cut technically 🙂 Just saying. However with two different levels of income for the same job are new employees going to get higher wages? Is there not an equality law?

  105. Eppy says:

    Just heard (at 6.40 am) on radio Scotland a presenter called David saying that the tax cuts will affect low paid families by up to £1,300 per year, when this is the average.

    He goes on to say something about mathematical ability in the next sentence. Deliberately misleading, incompetent or lazy? Hard to say, but some journalists need some serious lessons in statistics before they start quoting them.

  106. Sharny Dubs says:

    Now don’t quote me word for word, I know what you guys are like, but I seem to remember a judgment made by a high court judge (American I think) that went something like.
    “If the application of a law or ruling is difficult to discern, then the original reason for the enactment of the law or ruling should be studied, and if it is found that the original reason for the law or judgment no longer exists, then the law of judgment should be removed”.
    Labor? the House of Lords? Aye right!!
    Roll on Indy2

  107. john king says:

    So sorry about that Rev
    just dont kill me mkay
    I’ll do anything just as long as it doesnt include me dressing up and you taking pictures! (like ahem the last time)

  108. john king says:

    geeo @12.06 am
    Brilliant post
    you should speak to the rev about doing an article
    some great reasoning there.


  109. Ken500 says:

    Another fine mess.

    Trident now estimated to be £170Billion. Chinese nuclear station £18Billion. White elephant HS2 £70Billon

    The Tories are starving the vulnerable.

  110. Effijy says:

    How can SLabstain become more autocratic?
    The party swore that this was already realised in Dim Jim’s Day.

    Unfortunately for these serial liars, every time Dim came up with
    a statement that hadn’t been passed by Westminster Labour, they duly shot him down in flames.

    Joanne Lamont also turned them in by confirming that SLAB is completely controlled by Westminster First policies.

    Great work Rev on the HoL vote!
    I never imagined that I’d like in a country where no TV, Radio, or Newspaper would cover the horrific details within this vote.
    Democracy is dead in the UK.

    The Tories threat that if the Lords vote against them, they will
    install another 150 Tory members to insure victory.
    Is this the same party that call Scotland a one party, undemocratic state?

    Is this the party who say that the unelected Lords should never vote against an elected government, or we will put even more unelected members into it?

  111. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “As it is the whole thing is delayed for three years”

    People who are going on about the Parliament Acts need to actually know what they’re talking about.

    The Parliament Act of 1949 limited the Lords’ power to delay a bill to ONE year. The three years isn’t a delay to the Bill coming into effect, it’s the period over which Labour want SOME people on tax credits to be compensated in some unspecified way (to be devised by George Osborne, comfortingly) for the losses. The wording of the amendment is “TRANSITIONAL protection”. In other words, it’s just some time for people to get used to the cuts. The cuts are happening. What Labour did last night was guarantee that.

    In doing so they – by their own explicit admission – threw new claimants under the bus, which will create massive amounts of unfairness between new and existing claimants. Goodness knows how that’s going to play out.

  112. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “is certainly NOT my understanding from watching the Upper House debate last evening.”

    You should perhaps read the amendment from the Labour peer, who one would hope knew what her motion meant. There are only two places the money can ultimately come from – workers or employers. The only way for more of it to come from employers is for the minimum wage to go even higher than currently planned, and I’m happy to place any bet you like that that won’t be happening.

    So either the workers are still going to end up paying, or Osborne’s going to find the money in cuts at someone else’s expense. And you can be certain it won’t be the rich.

  113. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “If they had stopped the bill it would have returned in a very short period of time (albeit slightly reworded) and been represented with a Tory majority in the Lords.”

    The threat to flood the Lords was an empty one. It would have been politically suicidal.

  114. bookie from hell says:

    off topic

    if you ever made a bad financial decision

    think of this guy

    today in 1976 ronald wyne sold
    his 10% share in Apple for $800
    its now worth


  115. Hamish100 says:

    Mone of Mayfair is “not content”

    Oh heck she might threaten to move to Scotland.

    That’s what happens when you side with selfish rich, bankrupts etcetera

  116. Ruby says:

    ‘The living wage would be a huge benefit mainly to the taxpayer at the present period of time. If you move people from the minimum wage to the living wage the taxpayer would probably benefit by £50 per week per worker. So for supermarkets employing 100K workers who are getting tax credits which is quite plausible if each one of them got £50 per week from their employer rather than the taxpayer you are talking £100millions every year so the taxpayer would be benefitting there the treasury would be benefitting’
    Professor Jane Will, Queen Mary, University of London

    When you do your supermarket shopping at the likes of Tesco, Asda, Morrisons and Sainsbury’s you are not only paying for your goods, your taxes are subsidising their huge profits and the remuneration packages for their CEOs.

    Newsnight’s Economics editor Paul Mason reports on the way workers’ wages are being supplemented by state benefits.

    Broadcast on Thursday 9 February 2012.

  117. Another Union Dividend says:

    Louise White discussing House of Lords on BBC Radio Scotland Morning Call at 9 a.m.

    Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.

    Despite the claims of Lord Foulkes, Ian Murray and the Labour spin machine Labour voted to ensure the tax-credit cuts happened.

    Labour Peers didn’t vote for Osborne’s Tax Credit Cuts tonight to save Osborne. They voted for them to save their privileges in the House of Lords.

  118. Capella says:

    If I understand this correctly:
    tax credits are abolished for new claimants
    existing claimants will drop out because the living wage will make them ineligible
    Universal credit will be below the rate of current tax credits so will represent a cut

    The front pages of all the press are presenting this as a great and humiliating defeat for the government. See

    Ian Murray is maybe writing the press releases.?

  119. Ruby says:


    Lady Mone is staying put in Mayfair as advised by Lord Wallace.

    According to the Herald she is desperate to sell her hoose in Thorntonhall and has dropped the price by £150,000

    Osborne has a £4billion hole in his welfare plans,but he will find a way of filling it

    How will he fill it. If he increases the minimum wage then he could risk losing donations from the big supermarkets for example.

    Cameron is planning to set limits on the power of the Lords.

    Limit Scottish MPs power, limit Lords power

    It sounds as if Cameron is planning a Tory Dictatorship.

    There’s Labour but according to an ORB opinion poll for The Independent
    The public believes that Labour looks “increasingly incompetent” under Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership by a margin of almost two to one

    David Cameron may downgrade UK membership of the EU to “associate”

    “Please don’t leave,” pleads top Scot in EU
    ONE of Germany’s leading politicians has made an impassioned plea to his fellow Scots not to leave the European Union in the forthcoming in-out referendum.

    This EU Ref could be fun a bit like the Indy Ref except that it will be EU celebs asking us to stay. It should be interesting to watch how the UK react to ‘EUniTrolls’ flooding online forums ‘You ‘roastbeef’ are just anti-French small minded bigots.

  120. Anagach says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    The threat to flood the Lords was an empty one. It would have been politically suicidal.

    Very probably a compromise would have been reached, but the Lords had no appetite for a conflict that questioned their own position.

    Which disappoints me, in part because it would have been a great soap opera which would entertain the poor as they went hungry.

  121. HandandShrimp says:


    The Lords is an anachronism that has had its day and I certainly don’t want to see SNP Lords poncing around in ermine. History shows that if you allow yourself to be sucked into the establishment you become the establishment.

    Stephen, as others have said, the bill is not delayed for three years. Under this amendment it comes into immediate effect for new applicants and would have a sliding scale over three years before disappearing for existing beneficiaries. The amendment has bought some brief respite.

    The nature of the sliding scale is in George’s hands. There have been a number of suggestions as to how Osborne can fund this. Cutting tax allowances for pension contributions being one of them.

    I think we can rely on two things, the less well off will still pay for Osborne’s austerity and he will bear a grudge.

    That said, I am enjoying his annoyance.

  122. galamcennalath says:

    The Labour Party, Scottish branch or London HQ, do not in any way represent Scotland’s views and interests. No matter what Dugdale and the BBC say, yesterday’s events show an organisation far far removed from our world view. And, I include most NO voters in the ‘our’.

    The only way out of this mess is through the door marked, Exit!

  123. Ruby says:

    There is a lot of talk about the living wage.

    What I’m interested in is if you work full time earning the living wage do you earn enough to pay rent or does the taxpayer have to pay your rent for you.

    If taxcredits are ditched does that mean people will have to claim more in Housing Benefit?

  124. Lanarkist says:

    Melt down car crash for Lord Foulkes on RScot at around 9.27 this morning claiming that Labour lost because of the SNP and bringing up the French Ambassador and Nicola angle!

    Making his excuses and running from the building.

    Well done Man from Oban!

  125. Les Wilson says:

    BBC Sc…… t “News” this morning with Dugdale on, BBC saying that Slab has been awarded some autonomy from Labour HQ. Dugdale saying that sh will be running Slab.

    Firstly, it’s a con.
    Secondly, it’s a con.
    Thirdly ” ” ”
    Etc Etc…………

    God help Slab er,not with their latest wheeze.
    Maybe Parliament has given us a new title ” The Other Place!”

  126. Ken500 says:

    ‘Don’t leave’ says Scots/German politician.

    The Unionists said Scotland would be chucked out if they voted YES.

    OsbournesCameron are amateurs. They can’t get anything through the Conmons. Hopefully in three years they will be on their way out.

    Tax credits were introduced to cut unemployment. Unemployment costs more.

    The Lords can delay a Bill twice.

  127. Ruby says:

    QT tonight. Will there be a question about EVEL or is that all forgotten now?

    I believe ‘The Kezzer’ is on QT! Stu might need to get out his lie detector again!

    I get off the scale ICD readings everytime I hear her speak!

  128. Les Wilson says:

    Well Foukes just got a verbal bashing on call Kate, now he has a meeting! Ha Ha Ha!

  129. frogesque says:

    Hamish100 says:
    27 October, 2015 at 8:39 am
    Mone of Mayfair is “not content”

    Oh heck she might threaten to move to Scotland.

    That’s what happens when you side with selfish rich, bankrupts etcetera

    Just a wee correction:

    It should read Mone of Mayfair “has no content”

    Otherwise, as you were!

  130. MrObycyek says:


    What an utter balloon Foulkes is. He revealed he was totally ignorant of the known facts about the leaked memo fiasco. Well at least he is consistent. Kezia Dugdale truly learned from a master there.

    You could actually hear the rage from the caller Robert. Well done that man! The House of Hypocrites is bang on.

  131. Swami Backverandah says:

    @ Rev

    “The threat to flood the Lords was an empty one. It would have been politically suicidal.”

    How would it look, after first showing contempt for the Commons by not including unpalatable budgetary measures in a finance bill but instead trying to weasel them through in a statutory instrument, to then show contempt for the Lords by seeking to impose a majority.

    This signals that they believe the Lords should not be a House of Review, but just a place wherein policy is expedited.

    Why have the House at all then. One person with a rubber stamp would suffice.

  132. Socrates MacSporran says:

    When will The Abstainers release their big hit single: 500 Vows?

    “Oh we’ll abstain 500 times, then we’ll abstain 500 more,
    until the faithful who have left, beat a path back to our door.”

    Aye right, so they will.

  133. Socrates MacSporran says:


    Don’t be so hard on George, as Baron Foulkes of Cumnock he has access to the single Cumnock brain cell, except, it is not his turn to have use of it this week.

  134. schrodingers cat says:


    kay(e) forgot to ask him if he abstained on first vote

    “only party to propose reform of hol???”

    didn’t see that in their manifesto


  135. Everyone should make sure that those families on low incomes are made aware that Labour peers in the house of lords preferred to abstain rather than vote for the fatal motion to kill off George Osborne’s bill.

  136. Iain More says:

    It seems that some folk are still refusing to see that all Labour has done is to guarantee more savage cuts to come and for the Tories to flood the Lords with more Mayfair Moners.

  137. GovanX says:

    If, according to Labour, voting to delay something is the same as voting against it, then Scots merely voted to delay independence last year.

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