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Wings Over Scotland

Standard Wales Check

Posted on February 05, 2019 by

Alert readers will recall that earlier today we conducted one of our regular context checks for statistics misleadingly-incompletely reported in the Scottish press. But while those are like shooting fish in a barrel, there’s one thing that’s an even more reliable open goal for the website editor looking for content in a slow news week.

Ladies and gentlemen, once again we give you… Scottish Labour.

There’s absolutely nothing that happens in Scotland that Scottish Labour are happy with. Day in and day out they can be found putting the bleakest possible spin on any statistic for a dwindling audience of diehard supporters and Scottish journalists.

Something bad happened? SCOTLAND IS TERRIBLE AND IT’S ALL THE SNP’S FAULT. Something good happened? IT WASN’T GOOD ENOUGH AND IT’S ALL THE SNP’S FAULT. And the solution is always the same: let Labour run things.

There’s only one problem with that theory: it’s been tried.

Labour have run the Welsh Government ever since devolution 20 years ago – despite being proportionally elected, the current administration has 12 Labour ministers and deputies out of 14 – and without exception the Assembly in Cardiff has delivered worse (often spectacularly worse) results than its SNP-run counterpart since 2007.

The equivalent Welsh measure for operations cancelled for non-clinical reasons (what Scottish Labour describe as because “hospitals couldn’t cope”) is 75,000 in two years. That’s 37,500 a year, compared to the Scottish figure of 8,311.

And if we adjust those numbers pro-rata to account for Wales being a significantly smaller country than Scotland (with just 58% of the population), we get these figures:


Scotland: 8,311
Wales: 64,113

The Welsh figures under Labour are a breathtaking 771% worse than Scotland’s. We’re going to say that again in case you think it’s a typo:

Seven hundred and seventy-one percent.

There’s a reason the Scottish public don’t trust Labour to run their public services, even when they’re imperfect. And everyone except Scottish Labour knows what it is.

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    1. 05 02 19 19:56

      Standard Wales Check | speymouth

    2. 06 02 19 06:57

      Labour’s Criticism of SNP ruined by Welsh Labour Government . | Newsfeed Cymru

    512 to “Standard Wales Check”

    1. Blisteringly painful. Labour. What an embarrassment.

    2. call me dave says:


      These stories are like the trains. There will be another one along in a minute (stories that is) 🙂

    3. handclapping says:

      I have to assume that this is pure colonialism implying that the Welsh are less “civilised” than the Scots as it CAN NOT in anyway be that Labour are incompetent.

      Labour are a British Party and therefore must be better than anything from those far off regions about which we know little and care less. And he is a Saint and bringing us Brexit.

      See Westminster rules, OK!

    4. Wulls says:

      If anyone wants a better example of the hypocrisy that blights labour I don’t know where to find it.

    5. K1 says:

      The really pathetic and transparent aspect of Labour in Scotland is that it is Scotland itself that they run down, every time they bark out these sort of statistical spin and are then found wanting they double down and repeat and rinse year in and year out.

      But here’s the thing, it’s the people who work in these sectors that they are really attacking and they think we can’t see that.

      It’s ‘Scotland bad’ all the live long day wi Labour.

      And then they wonder why they are being utterly ignored, reviled, laughed at and most importantly will never ever be voted for again in Scotland except by diehard British nationalists whose sole aim is to remain tethered to this dying artificial construct of a ‘union’ called the UK.

    6. Alex Barclay says:

      I wish these figures and others like it could be published more widely in Banner headlines so that the people of Scotland can see the contrast. They, unfortunately, get smothered in unionist drivel, hyperbole and manipulation. Good on you wings for highlighting this crass manipulation of the truth. We all know Labour are renowned for it but it helps to have firm evidence.

    7. galamcennalath says:

      The only reason Labour still have a presence across the UK, must be nostalgia. It certainly can’t be based on any recent competent performance.

      Corbyn did appear to be attracting a youth following, but that will have been thoroughly flushed away by Labour’s pro Brexit attitudes.

    8. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      In fairness to Labour they are consistent.

      Consistently sulphurous, Labour, definitely got a smell about it.

    9. Artyhetty says:

      The Scottish figure doesn’t specify reasons either. There can be a number of reasons why ops are cancelled particularly on the day scheduled, quite often it is for clinical reasons and that happened to me twice last year. Nobody’s fault, staff were brilliant.

      Twenty three a day for the whole of Scotland, that number sounds no more than you might expect in any country at all, given there are so many reasons why an operation cannot go ahead. I’d worry if it was in the hundreds.

      Labour have so little to go on don’t they, scavenging for stories of SNP bad. God help us if they ever get their dirty claws on Scotland’s health or any services, again.

      Makes you wonder what they did do for Scotland in the 10 years they sat in their cosy seats at Holyrood, thinking they’d be there for the long haul! Tough, Labour, shame on you for doing NOTHING for Scotland in all that time, except sending £1.5 billion BACK to Westminster, and plunging Scottish councils into £billions of debt, which will be a millstone around the neck of Scotland for the next 30 years!

      Labour, go away and boil your heed as they say.

    10. Hamish100 says:

      liars don’t stop lying. They just do more.

    11. Bob Mack says:

      Wales? What about the whole of the UK?

      The last successful Labour government was run by Clement Attlee. Since then we had Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, and Tony Blair, and we know how they all ended up.

      Labour has seldom delivered on its own promises and usually ends up in the mire and voted out by the public.

      A lot more than Wales have suffered.

    12. starlaw says:

      If the Welsh Labour MSP’s are in the same class as their Scottish counterparts, then that would explain whats happening in Wales.

    13. Muscleguy says:

      Sigh, yet again SLAB is lying by spin to the Scottish people, despite being constantly outed for it, despite complaining that ‘supporters’ (ie former voters) are getting their social circles to fact check their statements then challenging them on it on the doorsteps. IOW ‘we cannae lie to folk nae more, Waaaaaa!’

      And what do they do in response? double down on the lying and spinning because they cannot bring themselves to be an actual normal constructive opposition party. We already have the Blue Tories to out Bain them and demand the impossible while the FibDems try to mini-me them. So what do SLAB think they’re doing with just more of the same?

      The idea that a proper constructive opposition party who is listened to when it holds the government rightly to account because it is sensible and supportive on policies they agree with and damn well should agree with by their own lights except Bain gets in the way is impossible is an indictment on the SLAB mindset.

      It’s the politics of the small minded, the bitter because those other people took our toys away and the frankly childish. The idea of what might be good for Scotland and her people is lost on the red mist of grievance and sectarianism.

    14. Iain says:

      Labour are an absolute disgrace and I trust mass resignations will follow.

    15. dakk says:

      If british labour’s abject failures such as PFI,social housing and NHS Wales were not buried in Scotland by their fake news pals in tv broadcasting and the ‘papers’, no one but their close relatives would touch them with a barge pole.

      As it is, even with virtually the entire ‘Scottish’ media backing them they can only muster just over 1 in 5 of voters.

      That’s how badly failing both they and their media apologists are.

      They certainly have no sense of shame, I’ll give them that but that’s all.

    16. cynicalHighlander says:

      Labour have Pacific Quay as their protection organisation for decades allowing them to lie with impunity.

    17. Robert Peffers says:

      A wee O/T here:-

      There are only 2currently 24 listeners on

      Come on folks – even if you cannot donate money you can donate support with listening figures. You can run it and listen while you comment on Wings.

    18. cynicalHighlander says:

      Robert Peffers

      Been listening since this morning.

    19. Former vegan god says:

      But our form of socialism will be better than the Welsh variety. Venezuela. I hate thieving socialists

    20. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi cynicalHighlander at 7:38 pm.

      You typed,
      “Labour have Pacific Quay as their protection organisation for decades allowing them to lie with impunity.”

      This article, from 2014, details it.

      “Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive: BBC Scotland and the Labour Party”

    21. johnj says:

      No wonder the Bastards hate you Rev.

    22. Brian says:

      “Labour have run the Welsh Government ever since devolution 20 years ago – despite being proportionally elected”

      I think you’ll find they have barely run the Welsh government due to being so bloody useless.

      A chocolate Teapot could do a better job than Welsh Labour. I’ve lived here for 11 years and they have done nothing of importance in that time let alone the 10 years before that.

    23. cynicalHighlander says:

      Brian Doonthetoon

      Yes I remember reading that, thanks for reminder.

    24. Simon Curran says:

      Nothing much surprises me about Labour. If they had any decency they would not be running down Scotland at every possible opportunity but would be asking the sensible question about what could be learnt from Scotland in order to help people in Wales who are unwell and who need medical care.

    25. defo says:

      Oh for a sharp toothed, independent media regulator, none of yer OfcourseSir sop.

      Proprietor’s bias will be reflected in their output, and rightly so, but Editors should fear being up in court for publishing Willfully misleading headlines and reportage.

      Just jail a few of the feckers, pour encourages les autres, and the job’s a good ‘un.

      Generally, the merde Stu exposes crosses over the line, into Willfull territory.

    26. In every aspect of devolved policy – health, education, public transport, housing – BritLab have been a catastrophe for our country. And yet there are still places – many of them the worst affected by BritLab’s arrogance, incompetence and corruption – who would still vote for a turd if it had a BritLab rosette on it (figuratively speaking, they actually do). Which is why they have formed every government here since 1999 (occasionally with the help of the LibDems and the so-called ‘Party Of Wales’).

      And it’s that last aspect which marks the clear difference between our nations. You have a broad-based genuinely national party, as opposed to a clique of special-interest-packed, ‘intersectionist’ Labour wannabees.

      We are what you might have become had you not kicked the bastards out in 2007.

      You are our good example; we are your terrible warning.

    27. Legerwood says:

      Alex Barclay @ 6.49 pm and Artyhetty @ 6.56 pm

      Information Services Division (ISD) Scotland publishes rafts of data on all manner of NHS Scotland’s performance in just about every area you can imagine.

      The reports are published each Tuesday on the ISD website. Some reports are published weekly, eg A&E waiting times, some monthly eg planned ops and some quarterly or annually.

      Each report is published in summary form and as a full report and there are usually links to related historic data.

      There are usually around 25,000 or so planned ops each month and, unless there are unusual circumstance -major flu outbreak, then fewer than 10% are cancelled.

      The main reason for cancellations are: Patient cancelling, Clinical reasons – these two usually account for the majority of cancellations – then resource issues such as staffing or theatre availability etc and then ‘Other’.

      The resource issue can cover a lot of things not just staffing. For example, recently 3,000 ops were cancelled in NHS GGHB because the facility where all the surgical instruments were sterilised was found to be less than clean. Work has been done to bring it up to standard.

      Below is the most recent report summary for planned ops in December 2018 (there is always a lag while the data is collected and collated so reports are usually around 6 weeks or so in arrears):
      Cancelled Planned Operations

      •The total number of planned operations across NHS Scotland during December 2018 was 24,522, similar to 24,624 during December 2017.
      •2,237 operations (9.1% of all planned operations) were cancelled in December 2018, ranging from 4.0% to 12.0% across individual NHS Boards. This compares to 2,664 (10.8%) in December 2017.
      •In December 2018, of all 24,522 planned operations: 801 (3.3%) were cancelled by the patient; 774 (3.2%) were cancelled by the hospital based on clinical reasons; 600 (2.4%) were cancelled by the hospital due to capacity or non-clinical reasons; 62 (0.3%) were cancelled due to other reasons.
      •The peak in cancellations for non-clinical/capacity reasons in November 2018 (3.4%) relates to the unplanned, temporary closure of the Cowlairs decontamination unit in NHS Greater Glasgow & Clyde.
      The spikes in March 2018 for non-clinical/capacity reasons (4.1%) and other reasons (1.5%) were due to poor weather affecting patient and staff travel. The peak in cancellations for non-clinical/capacity reasons in January 2018 (4.5%) was linked to increased emergency admissions causing additional demands for beds.

      It is worth keeping an eye on the ISD website publications section on a Tuesday because it can sometimes give a clue to what the Union parties will be carping about that day.

      On the specific topic of Wales. Channel 4 news ran a week-long series of reports from an A&E department in a hospital in Bangor. Pretty shocking. People waiting for hours in ambulances, corridors etc.

    28. yesindyref2 says:

      My boy earlier helped dig out a stuck Fiesta and another car somewhere in the Cairngorms earlier today. 15 cars waiting and just one other had a shovel it seems, a guy in tweeds who got out, cleared the bit of road itself in 2 minutes and then went past in his 4×4. Apparently he had tweeds so we’ve all decided he was a rich landowner, racist Brexiteer, unionist with a small organ firing blanks.

      Makes you think though, changed days. You’d never in the old days leave someone stuck, always carry a shovel and maybe a mat, and a sleeping bag just in case. Still makes sense if you’re out in weather like that as with wind you can get drifts very quickly.

    29. McDuff says:

      Another good one Rev.

    30. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “I wish these figures and others like it could be published more widely in Banner headlines so that the people of Scotland can see the contrast.” you say Alex Barclay says at 6:49 pm

      There are some who print these WoS Articles out and insert them into the Mail and the Express for the unsuspecting brainwashee to find when they get home.

      (Print PDF in wee green lozenge at the bottom of ALL WoS Articles)

    31. call me dave says:

      Shortbread klaxon reporting conflict of interest concerns over the appointed chair of the nine person committee on Salmond enquiry.

      Linda Fabiani MSP -SNP …because, because! 🙂

    32. Clootie says:

      I am sick of the Labour (branch office) running down Scotland, the people of Scotland and every positive effort being made to improve the standard of life for those living here.
      Labour did nothing for decade after decade. They are the Party who for years used the pain and suffering of people so that they could thrive as a party by fooling people with their promises of making life better by pretending to be on the side of those suffering.

      Labour is not the answer. They are part of the problem.

    33. Rock says:

      The SNP government has done a great job in running Scotland, where powers are devolved.

      An SNP government in its 5th year in power would have done wonders to Scotland if a majority of Scots had voted to end the union in 2014.

      The problem is, No voters – the vast majority of the British Nationalist elderly, the selfish middle classes, settlers from Scotland’s equal partner and the thugs – have got the best of both worlds and despite everything, there has been ZERO increase in support for independence.

      Nicola is not going to call indyref2 without a Section 30 order from Westminster, but even if she did, it is too late and would almost certainly be lost.

      I do not have any evidence of my views, so don’t ask for any.

      May the Lord forgive those who voted No in 2014. Amen.

    34. Love the way you conclude, by spelling out the 771% in words. Takes me back to New Year’s Day 1996.

      St Johnstone 7 (SEVEN) : Dundee 2

      Anyway, those folks still supporting Labour – Jeez! Imagine getting up every morning and thinking “I hope it’s really really crap today”. Or sitting on a train, fuming because it’s on time.

      Mind you, if you can discern leadership qualities in Richard Leonard, Kezia Dugdale and Jim Murphy you’re already in a strange place.

    35. This only explains Scottish Labour supporters in their mid 70’s…

      In the late 1950s lobotomy’s popularity waned, and no one has done a true lobotomy in this country since Freeman performed his last transorbital operation in 1967. (It ended in the patient’s death.) But the mythology surrounding lobotomies still permeates our culture.

      So what’s the cause with their younger supporters?

    36. Thepnr says:

      As Labour members in Scotland leave in their droves, their support plummets in the polls and still they persist with this strategy of “SNP BAD”.

      That is leadership from Leonard it’s idiocy, just think about it as it wasn’t that long ago that Labour would easily assume 45% support in any election.

      Well changed days and it’s now less than half that, so bad in fact that the Tories have overtaken them as the second party of Scotland. Labour in Scotland have made all these choices all by themselves and have no one else to blame.

      Their support will continue to fall as they continue to LIE to the voter with bullshit stories like this which are spread within minutes all over social media and held up for the false perspective that they give.

      They assume the voter is stupid when it’s actually themselves that are stupid, they support will continue to erode until they become no more meaningful than Wee Wullies lib Dems.

      Labour in Scotland and doomed and face extinction without a radical rethink and a change of direction. They need to come out in support of Independence and work with the SNP.

      That is the only cure for the wasting away of the party caused by their Unionism. I say this as an ex member and supporter for more than 40 years.

      Take this advice, as it’s good advice. Ditch your support for the Tories in Scotland and lets work together to make Scotland a better place than Westminster can ever hope to deliver.

    37. Contrary says:

      I can’t for the life of me remember who it was that made the comment the other day about union jacks on police officers, and referenced an American study, sorry, but I stole your comment to show prof John and ask if there was any info on the propagandising effect of flags, and he actually did look into it:

      Not much conclusive study done on the effect of flags, but it does seem to have influence (apart from annoying everyone, particularly when it isn’t even a national flag), maybe mostly on youngsters – that developing brain sucks it all in and keeps it for a lifetime. So keep your children blindfolded while going round the supermarket, it’s not safe for them. Or maybe only buy the jacked-packed of their most hated food – get some decent associations in early.

      Oh aye, and Labour, what a waste of space they’ve made themselves. They put so much effort into demonstrating just how wholly incompetent they can be, and the brass neck to make out it is because of someone else. I really wish they got a spell of receiving some of the endless criticism and hate from BBC Scotland, maybe some of them would actually step up. Meh, maybe not. According to Richard Murphy, of progressive-tax fame, the big Labour is developing the most rubbish economic policy ever – basically austerity of neo-liberalism by another name. They don’t have a clue. Can there really be so little talent in the entire party? And can they really have left socialism so far behind?

    38. call me dave says:

      Worth a peek into

      MUNGUIN’S REPUBLIC (link near top page) Scottish politics.

      Ripping Jamie Greene’s tweet about FM going to America.

    39. Bill Hume says:

      Union flags on Scottish police uniforms?
      I haven’t seen them.

    40. shug says:

      I am sure Call Kaye in the morning will be right on this one

      Aye right

      Without doubt the MSM are bad but the BBC and their Scottish radio presenters are on a completely different level of incompetence/ maliciously contrived reporting.

      Once independence arrives we must have an investigation to find out if they believed the rubbish they presented or if they knew it was wrong.

    41. Golfnut says:


      Thanks for adding a bit more context, and that’s not even mentioning that there are over 150 hospitals throughout Scotland, 23 cancelled per day between over 150 Hospitals.
      Have to admit I stopped counting at 150, there are more.
      That’s from wiki, it took a couple seconds, a couple of clicks on a keyboard is all it would have taken for the media to have come up with this
      Scottish NHS cancelled only 23 ops per day between 150 hospitals.
      Deliberate, malicious information designed to keep the people of Scotland misinformed.

    42. yesindyref2 says:

      The thing to do is a lable with Union Jack on the left (probably as a square), and “Past Its Sell-by Date” vertically on the right in Arial 14 red bold type. 48.90 mm x 29.60 mm label = 36 per A4 sheet, 3,600 a pack of 100 for less than £20 plus printing.

      I wouldn’t like to suggest putting them on UK-branded food in supermarkets, oh no.

    43. Contrary says:

      Okay, I managed to find the comment re: police wearing a Union Jack pin, it was from euan0709 on 25th Jan,

      It’s pasted into my final comment there (easier than trying to find it here, and I did edit in some spaces between paragraphs to make it easier to read (it’s a fairly long comment)).

    44. Hamish100 says:

      I see Jamie Greene tory waste of space of Ayrshire complaining about our First Ministers visit to the USA and Canada to promote our nation. Does greene not remember his soiree to Israel with tory colleagues on a wine tasting outing judging by the photographs. Certainly wasnt promoting Scotland. May visits NI to try and pay off the sectarian DUP. Tories are the lowest if the low.

    45. Arthur Thomson says:

      There are no doubt many people in Scotland who wish to believe Labour’s lies. The soft spoken one wouldn’t give his blessing to spreading lies surely. Everyone knows he is a man of principle, I just wait patiently to find out what it is.

      I can think of no individual or group in the Brit Labour party who are fit to form a government. The Tories and Lib Dems either. Their only hope is to revoke article 50 and let the EU oversee Britland.

      I still expect that to happen.

    46. Bill Hume says:

      Thank you Contrary, it seems that the small badges worn unofficialy were for a British police charity called the thin blue line, certainly not a political statement. I am also led to believe that police officers have now been told to remove them.

    47. boris says:

      The much touted joint Unionist commitment to fully implement their “Vow” !!!!……to devolve powers to Scotland, just short of independence, proved to be a “lie” that broke the hearts of many Scots who had voted to remain in the Union only on the substance of “Unionist! promises.

      Private polling, coupled with a massive increase in the membership, in the months before the election provided early indication of a marked upturn in the fortunes of the Party.

      The new blood intake included a number of gifted individuals, many of whom were selected to stand as parliamentary candidates throughout Scotland. The battle for the hearts, minds and votes of Scots was taken up, once again by those who would not be denied freedom from the oppressive Westminster political machine.

    48. ScotsRenewables says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      5 February, 2019 at 7:40 pm
      A wee O/T here:-

      There are only 2currently 24 listeners on

      Come on folks – even if you cannot donate money you can donate support with listening figures. You can run it and listen while you comment on Wings.

      Plus 100. If you can’t do a simple thing like open another tab and have Independence Radio playing in the background then what CAN you be bothered doing??

      They play great music in between the speeches. The site needs a lot of work though – could do with having the schedules published at least.

    49. cynicalHighlander says:


      16 hrs ATM they only had 13 regulars now up to 20 things take time. I agree that they need a webpage with schedules etc not relying on facebook as a lot of us do not subscribe to facebook.

    50. Liam says:


    51. Cactus says:

      Ah’ve been listening tae the Trump speech LIVE on the wireless radio the now for the past wee while (as well as Indy Live Radio.)

      Interesting to hear how many of the American people are SO vocal about their country (regardless of the serving administration) with volumous chants of… “USA, USA, USA!”

      We could do with some of that extra enthusiastic passion here in our own country, with people proudly chanting… Scotland, Scotland, Scotland! Ah shout it out every other day… you should try it too.

      Ah wonder if the people of Wales ever chant their own country?

      That’s the Trumpeter not long finished.

    52. Cactus says:

      Here be an example of some English people chanting…

      Tally hoe!

    53. Cactus says:

      And here be an example of some passionate Welsh people chanting…

      Awe the banter. 😉

    54. Cactus says:

      And here’s Abe chanting hehe:

      Ah met the dude that did the voices of Abe once in Glasgow City.

      To chant… Press LB + RB.

      Mon the Health!

    55. Ann says:

      IndyApp message “may not be optimised for my Android” ??.
      Will try on my IPad tonight.

    56. Ann says:

      IndyApp message “may not be optimised for my Android” ??.
      Will try on my IPad tonight.

    57. Jock McDonnell says:

      Anglosceptic, is that a word ?

    58. hackalumpoff says:

      Links, plate 1 of 6

      I’m a civil servant. Trust me, we’re nowhere near ready for no-deal Brexit

      FM @NicolaSturgeon and Governor of New Jersey @GovMurphy have signed a joint agreement to tackle climate change:

    59. hackalumpoff says:

      Links, plate 3 of 6

      Joanna Cherry on politics show

      Today, Chris Grayling, “who can’t even organise a traffic jam, despite being Minister for Transport”, argued the EU would be to blame for no-deal.

      @joannaccherry is spot on, hitting out at the Tory Brexit delusions & red lines causing the Brexit impasse

      Cherry on politics show

      The uncomfortable truth about #indyref lies created quite a reaction from ‘the former Labour advisor turned comedian’ and state-funded broadcaster Jo Coburn.

      Rightwing thinktank breached charity law by campaigning for hard Brexit

    60. hackalumpoff says:

      Links, plate 6 of 6

      Cloak of secrecy over child sexual abuse…

      This is hugely important. The Government have refused my FOI requests to publish all workstreams which show the UKs readiness for Brexit. They are once again keeping the public and parliament in the dark.

    61. Robert Peffers says:

      Cactus says: 6 February, 2019 at 3:38 am:

      ” … We could do with some of that extra enthusiastic passion here in our own country, with people proudly chanting… Scotland, Scotland, Scotland!”

      Oh! Cactus, people do just that in Scotland, usually for either 80 minutes or 90 minutes, (not counting time added on for stoppages and extra time).

      They usually do this only at weekends and when they do so there are usually another lot present chanting the name of some other country.

      For some strange reason we call the Scottish ones 80, or 90, minute patriots. Also the Scottish ones are, more often than not, mainly opposed to Scotland becoming an independent kingdom within the so called United Kingdom. and they tend to vote for unionist political parties.

    62. gordoz says:

      Labour must absolutely despise your critique ? ?
      I can feel the pain when I read it.

    63. hackalumpoff says:

      The waiter dropped Links, plate 4 of 6, just can’t get the staff since Brrexit

      IEA’s Mark Littlewood says minister Steve Baker hid meetings with Shanker Singham by using Littlewood as a “shill”. Singham has “A”-grade access to Tory ministers & wrote script for Gove and Johnson.

    64. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hackalumpoff –



    65. Albaman says:

      Take a look at today’s ( Feb 6 ) Scottish Daily Mail , a grossly misleading front page, regarding the proposed work parking charge.

    66. hackalumpoff says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood wait till coffee time.

    67. Luigi says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      6 February, 2019 at 8:52 am

      For some strange reason we call the Scottish ones 80, or 90, minute patriots. Also the Scottish ones are, more often than not, mainly opposed to Scotland becoming an independent kingdom within the so called United Kingdom. and they tend to vote for unionist political parties.

      Proud scots love to virtue signal. Must be compensating for something. 🙂

    68. Iain mhor says:

      Caesar!man @9am
      Ha, I was derided by some for pointing out that was exactly what was going to happen. I even called it a ‘potential poll tax moment’ Just need Labour & a trade union to run with it and I have a full house.

      *ends petty “see telt ye” post.

    69. euan0709 says:

      Contrary…5th Nov at 1033 and 1132.
      Hallowrerr………. Yes Sir I am that man. I have been campaigning since just after Brexit for ACC Bernie Higgins to stop encouraging Police “Scotland” Officers wearing the Union Flag on their uniforms under the guise of the Police Firearms Officers Assoc ( a Charity Reg in England). I wont go into it all again to except say that I have complained to Police Scotland about the actions of a high ranking civilian Head of Dept. The Police Complaints Dept ( they cover civilian staff as well as Police Officers) contacted me last week and it is clear that the words “cover up”, spring to mind ( they wanted me to drop my complaint against the woman concerned). If I don’t get a reply/visit from them in the next couple of days,I will place the matter into the hands of the Police Independent Review Commissioner. Depending on the final result with Police “Scotland”, I may launch a Petition to the Scottish Parliament regarding this matter.
      I will keep you posted.

    70. galamcennalath says:

      hackalumpoff says:

      (Good links, thanks)

      Big story in Brexit context, especially regarding Scotland.

      “The Irish Government should not change its negotiating stance on Brexit, Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has said, as she threw her support behind Taoiseach Leo Varadkar over the backstop. “

      …. and we have to read it in the Irish press. Have we no media in Scotland? Er, no, would be the straight answer.

    71. hackalumpoff says:

      Covfefe time Links 1 of 3

      Let’s remind ourselves to find this ‘not normal’ – it’s frightening & disturbing. Welcome to Brexit Britain?

      James O’Brien calmly tears apart Theresa May over Brexit.

      The Brexit Job Loss Index is an attempt to keep track of the number of jobs lost in the UK due to Brexit.

    72. Breeks says:

      Quite a poignant wee quip read on Twitter… they (Brexiteers) don’t care, they want suicide.

      I wonder whether it’s the same disorder (if I might call it a disorder) which sees Brexiteers determined to Brexit at any cost, and Scotland’s Uncle Tams, who would fight Scottish Independence at any cost and against all reason.

      Both share common characteristics, faith in delusions and denial of objective truths, a distinct “script” in their dialogue which seems designed to truncate argument and debate. “Brexit means Brexit”, “No Second Referendum”, “People just want to get on with it”. Objective analysis wherever it escapes is dismissed as bias and rhetoric.

      The only way I can account for this popular “contagion” is that it is evidence of mass indoctrination being led by the populist narrative in the mainstream media.

      Time and again, I catch my own concentration asking itself whether this “British” indoctrination is the same mechanism which was at work in 1930’s Germany. I had always presumed that Goebbels and his infamous propaganda was a ruthless Nazi invention which was exploited very effectively, but nowadays I genuinely wonder to what extent the indoctrination wasn’t led by the Nazis. It was the effect of indoctrination on a niaive populace which simply opened their minds to suggestion, and it was that impaired state of mind which allowed the evil of Nazi ideology to step in.

      It isn’t a pro Indy Campaign Scotland needs. It’s an anti-indoctrination campaign.
      It isn’t an anti Brexit Campaign the UK needs. It’s similar anti-indoctrination.

      The people want suicide. Yes. I think they do – at least a lot of them do. It’s illogical and counterintuitive, but it will nevertheless see many of them throwing themselves to their doom believing they can fly.

      When a person is mentally unwell, simply ill, or under the influence of a cult, they can have their power of attorney suspended, be sectioned in the mental health act and not held fully accountable for their actions. – Because they’re NOT!

      I know it’s a rough and ready metaphor, but that’s more or less where the UK population is at. We ought not be allowed to vote while we would use that vote to injure or suffer harm upon ourselves. I know, it’s uncomfortable to imagine, but how else would you explain it?

      This is where, in my thinking, we MUST peg our lifeline to the solid, immovable foundation stone of our country that is our Sovereignty. Our Constitutional Sovereignty has endured 300+ years of effective “No” vote consequence. It didn’t just start in 2014. That was just a reinvention of the same shite that went on before. Our Sovereignty is durable, permanent, and inalienable. It is simply the accordant recognition of it which is false and fickle, and leaves us vulnerable to exploitation. It’s not the Sovereignty, it’s the recognition.

      There’s a standing joke on the IT Crowd where every PC fault can be fixed by switching it off and back on again. Well, I think Scotland needs to do something very similar to that with our democracy.

      Our democracy is compromised by colonially inspired media indoctrination. Switch it off for just a moment, and let our Nation reboot from scratch, using uncompromised and vanilla first principle.

      Begin. Line 1… The people of Scotland are Sovereign….

      Of course, we don’t live in abstract, but a real world. But we MUST seek recognition for our Constitutional Sovereignty. Sovereignty is key to everything, but a key is nothing without a lock in which to insert it.

      We must seek formal recognition of our sovereignty, and trust whatever happens next to due process, International law and precedent, and the mature protocols which govern how the global collective of sovereign nations respects the Constitutional integrity of the individual nation. I have absolute faith those protocols will restore Scotland to where is rightfully belongs in the family of sovereign Nations.

    73. hackalumpoff says:

      Covfefe time Links 2 of 3 and 3 of 3 must be getting delivered by Hermes will try later.

    74. Republicofscotland says:

      SLAB,are and have been for years just a carping party from the sidelines. Trying at every turn to denounce anything the Scottish government (SNP) achieves for the people of Scotland.

    75. Baldeagle58 says:

      Hi All

      O/T, but does anyone have a link to Joanna Cherry’s appearance on yesterday’s Politics Show?

    76. Tam the Bam. says:

      Anyone else have a problem logging on yesterday?

      I couldn’t bring the Wings site up yesterday….was it closed for maintenance?

    77. auld highlander says:

      tam the bam,
      Yes, unable to access between 11am and three pm, nothing on the lap top and nothing on the ipad , we were beginning to think that the site had been rubbed out by the powers that b.

    78. jockmcx says:

      Had to post this comment from
      hackalumpoff’s james o’brien link.

      Unite Ireland and put the hard border between Scotland and England (it’s a significantly shorter border). That way you’ve got the Celtic Arc remaining in the EU and England and Wales getting the Brexit glory they voted for. That non EU part could be called Former United Kingdom – with people from there referred to as FUKers. Simple.?

      well said – Donald Urquhart

    79. hackalumpoff says:

      For links to Cherry on the politics show, see my links at 8.44am

    80. hackalumpoff says:

      Covfefe time Links 2 of 3

      Cato Institute, IEA, The Heritage Foundation – all members of The Atlas Network and here’s Daniel Hannan giving a speech at their annual dinner – that’s Dan Hannan, the MEP and key member of Vote Leave who were originally based at Tufton St with the rest of the Atlas members.

      The vermin in ermine speak

      Warning lights flashing over EU settled status app

    81. hackalumpoff says:

      Covfefe time Links 3 of 3

      I can scarcely believe this – we are not into a ‘the backstop’ v ‘a backstop’ semantics debate.


      Theresa May is about to force through an avalanche of new Brexit laws

    82. call me dave says:

      Something we knew!

      Venezuela: Juan Guaido will open up oil deals to foreign private companies, opposition leader’s US envoy says 🙁

      Thank goodness nobodies stealing our oil eh!
      ‘Extra Regio’ is looking after our Scottish oil…money in the bank. Aye!

      A definition:

      he extraregio territory is made up of parts of the economic territory of a country which cannot be attached directly to a single region.

      The extraregio territory consists of, among others, national air-space, territorial waters and the continental shelf lying in international waters over which the country enjoys exclusive rights; territorial enclaves, embassies, consulates, military and scientific bases; deposits of energy and natural resources outside the continental shelf of the country, worked by resident units.

    83. Baldeagle58 says:

      O/T Ignore the above request re a link to yesterdays Politics show. I’ve got it.

      By the way, thank you hackalumpoff for all these Links in Nana’s absence.

    84. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I cannot help wondering, how soon after Independence will the USA invade Scotland, or at the very least seek to implement regime change?

      I mean, with all that oil slurping around in our waters, we are sure to be a target.

      El Presidente Murdo anyone!!!

    85. hackalumpoff says:

      Angus Brendan MacNeil V DR Liam Fox LIVE, this should be fun .

    86. Jeff says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      6 February, 2019 at 11:38 am
      “I cannot help wondering, how soon after Independence will the USA invade Scotland, or at the very least seek to implement regime change?”

      Socrates – I think they started already, a few weeks ago?

    87. Dr Jim says:

      I mean the Tories gave them one job
      If Labour lose any more members they’re going to have to start buying them from abroad, Whoops! can’t, immigration laws

      Labour bring up Corbyn and hold a private meeting in Govan (one of the few places left where they can go) to a crowd you could count on the fingers of one hand ask themselves questions then answer themselves amongst themselves then come to the conclusion they were right about the answers to their own questions

      What makes this worse is the media gives this embarrassment coverage and if you take a good look at it it’s the same tactic as employed by The Tories Mrs May except for one crucial difference

      Remember when Labour used to have (public) meetings they used to be large affairs with people in great numbers, now they’re reduced to the size of a Liberal Democrat phone box turnout

      Aye they’re on the way back alright but for the very few and not hardly the very many and in private so the public can’t witness their shame

      What a shower of useless useless articles

    88. laukat says:

      Tusk will get headlined today for his “special place in hell” comment but the other part of what he is reported to have said is way more important

      Lifted from Skynews
      “Donald Tusk, the European Council president, is speaking now at a media conference in Brussels with the Irish prime minister. He says that the “pro-Brexit” of Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn “rules out” the question of Britain remaining in the EU.And he admits there is “no political force and no effective leadership for Remain”.”

      If there is no option of the UK remaining what are we wating for FM? Call the Indyref

    89. hackalumpoff says:

      ‘kinhell cmon Nicola squeaky bum time.

      Breaking: Donald Tusk says the pro Brexit stance of the PM & leader of the opposition mean there is little hope of reversing the Brexit process


      There will be a press point at +/- 16:00 (CET) @EU_Commission following today’s meeting between @JunckerEU and @campaignforleo

      Watch live here

    90. hackalumpoff says:

      missed a bit

      eucopresident Donald Tusk reiterates that the #brexit Withdrawal Agreement is not up for renegotiation, and says he hopes to hear a realistic proposal from @theresa_may tomorrow


    91. @Socrates MacSporran,

      infiltrate,discredit,destabilize and ultimately control,

      i`m sure the CIA/MI6 have made contingency plans for regime change in most countries in the world, including their own,

      the control, by puppet regimes, of oil producing countries would be of high priority.

    92. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Watching Andrea Leadsome on Politics Live just now, doggedly sticking to the Tory government line:

      They’re awe oot o’ step but oor Theresa.

    93. Hamish100 says:

      Tories blaming the EU. How many tory brexit ministers left / got sacked as it suited them not to negotiate!

      The 2 faced tories can’t even agree to keep to their own brexit agreement.

      May in NI at the moment with the DUP. What “incentives” is the DUP after. Permament closure of Stormont?

    94. sinky says:

      Andrew Kerr on BBC Scotland fails to mention that Scottish government does NOT have the powers to top up state pensions.

    95. cirsium says:

      @hackalumpoff, 8.55

      re Shanker Singham – here he is with David Davis on a all-expenses-paid trip to US

    96. call me dave says:


      Jings! Just saw that on Big Auntie tv news. 🙂

      Even I raised an eyebrow… and then said…YES!

    97. Mark Fletcher says:

      More than a little confused by this pensions squabble.

      SNP MPs adamant that Holyrood cannot top up reserved benefits. Government and their apologists claim that this power is indeed available.

      Where does the truth lie? How can both sides be equally certain of their own position?

    98. Giving Goose says:

      Good old Tusky on the telly (and Twitter)..
      Never a truer word etc

    99. manandboy says:

      Well done, Stu.

    100. Capella says:

      How the BBC’s Laura Keunssberg is framing Donald Tusk’s remarks – Tusk going in “studs up”, a former “football hooligan “, ” whipping up the mood”, “not off the cuff” but deliberate.

      That’ll help Laura.

    101. manandboy says:

      The Unionist brainwashing through daily doses of British State Propaganda must go on. Lies? Of course it’s lies, as they dare not tell us the truth. Huge numbers of the electorate are very gullible and naive, and these people, many of whom are from the professional ranks, are the targets for Labour’s anti- Scottish NHS/SNP propaganda.

      We ought really to be used to the idea by now, some of the voters CAN & WILL BE FOOLED ALL THE TIME. And therefore all the time, Labour and the Tories will pump out every kind of false story to smear the SNP & to try to prevent an Independent Scotland.

      Which is why Stu’s work is so important.

      Meantime, England is destroying itself. So put your Claymore back in its scabbard, and enjoy the carnage south of the border.

    102. Thepnr says:

      EU Press conference with European Commission President Jean-Claude JUNCKER and Taioseach, Leo VARADKAR has just started.

    103. Bill Hume says:

      Sorry, manandboy but I can take no pleasure from the carnage which will occur south of the border. Lots of good people will suffer.

    104. hackalumpoff says:


      Joanna Cherry in the Parly today

    105. Thepnr says:

      May might as well cancel her trip tomorrow to Brussels as she must know she is totally wasting her time.

      The EU are trolling here now and she’s just had another well deserved boot up the bahookie at the EU press conference. Has she no shame?

    106. Tinto Chiel says:

      O/T: Trump says in his State of The Union address, “Great nations don’t fight endless wars.”

      Don’t think he’ll be around much longer: such behaviour is mandatory for the military-industrial complex.

    107. hackalumpoff says:

      Oops wrong link above, Joanna Cherry in the Parly today

    108. Marie Clark says:

      Ha ha, well said Mr Speaker, and Joanna Cherry. Aye the truth does hurt sometimes.

      As Rabbie said, ” Oh wid some power the gift tae gie us, tae oorsels as ithers see us”. Indeed.

    109. Another Union Dividend says:

      BBC Politics Scotland in full bash the SNP mode this afternoon.

      Not only do the two Unionist MSPs get the last words on every question but former Labour MP “commentator” allowed unchallenged comments on SNP and Brexit.

    110. Another Union Dividend says:

      If this was Alex Salmond or any SNP MP it would be front page news on every newspaper and leading all TV channel news bulletins

    111. Thepnr says:


      Holy moly!

      The question is, will Ross Thomson be charged with sexual assault?

    112. Conan the Librarian says:

      The Herald has stopped comments on this just as they were getting interesting…

    113. frogesque says:

      From the Herald online.

      A Scottish Tory MP was removed from a Westminster pub by police, it has been claimed.

      Ross Thomson, who is the MP for Aberdeen South, was said to be involved in an incident at Strangers’ Bar in parliament last night.

      Guido Falkes reports that an allegedly intoxicated Thomson was removed from the pub.

      The report claims that the MP was led out of the bar several times before police were called and he was taken away.

      There has been no comment from the MP so far.

      More to follow.

    114. Scotspatriot says:

      Ross Thomson MP has been a very naughty boy….polis involved

    115. frogesque says:

      Had him down as a right plonker and off the scale wierd not as a bar room random bum bandit. But, heyho!

    116. Legerwood says:

      Thepnr at 3:42 pm

      Possibly the most unbelievable statement in the Guido article is: “”Ross Thomson is a well liked MP…”

    117. Petra says:

      Thanks for taking over from Nana, hackalumpoff. Giving her a well-earned break? And of course some great links there, especially at 3:23 / 3:17pm.

      Joanna Cherry on the ball as usual and where’s Rooth when you need her? Her dirty Bakers dozen beginning to show their true colours? Thompson out on his erse? One less vote for Big T?


      Did anyone else see the start of PMQ’s today when Iain Blackford put his questions to David Lidington? The response, from riled-up, red in the face Lidington, seemed to be chockablock with lies. Sorry I can’t post the relevant link right now.

    118. call me dave says:

      Jings! Dross Thompson…MP Aberdeen South 🙂 at the moment.

      The National:

    119. Thepnr says:


      ”Ross Thomson is a well liked MP…”

      Yes he missed out, that’s except for viewers in Scotland 🙂

      Will he now resign from the Tory party as Alex Salmond did? Will Ruth Davidson suspend him or can she even suspend him? I’m guessing not.

      He’ll lie low for a few days and with little media coverage it will all be forgotten about by next week no doubt. That’s if it’s even noticed in the first place by most people.

    120. Gary Thom says:

      Good work Stu. But just a pedantic point. the Welsh figure is 771% of Scotland’s total, making it just 671% worse. (If the Welsh figure were twice Scotland’s, it would be 100% worse, not 200% worse).

      Still awful, obviously.

    121. gus1940 says:

      While the STV site reports Thomson’s sex assaultS Misreporting Scotland or should it be NonReporting Scotland seems to be giving it the same treatment as it has given to Nicolas’s trip across the pond. i.e ignore it.

      Incidentally why was he not arrested and charged?

    122. Referendum1707 says:

      Saw some red tory cretin on Twitter or somewhere the other day
      saying that the recent loss of members was nothing really, just part of “the natural cycle.”

      I wonder where he really thought they were cycling to?

    123. Astonished says:

      How will the BBC cover this up?

      And am I right in thinking that sexual offences committed furth of Scotland can be prosecuted in Scotland?

    124. Thepnr says:


      Did anyone else see the start of PMQ’s today when Iain Blackford put his questions to David Lidington? The response, from riled-up, red in the face Lidington, seemed to be chockablock with lies. Sorry I can’t post the relevant link right now.

      Here’s a link. You’re right Lidington lies. No surprise there then.

    125. K1 says:

      Thank you for all those links hackalumpoff.

    126. Dr Jim says:

      Ross Thompson

      Are we sure it was just the drink, nobody noticed this clowns eyes lately, more like chemical enhancement

    127. Referendum1707 says:

      gus 1940

      “Incidentally why was he not arrested and charged?”

      Why do think he wasn’t charged? Do you really need to ask?

      It’s because he’s not in the SNP or an independence supporter.

    128. dakk says:

      That Strangers bar sounds like some den of iniquity.

      No wonder ol’ Joycey got huckled swinging a while back.

    129. call me dave says:

      Dross Thompson.

      Meanwhile Auntie wie a kilt in Glasgow PQ tumbleweed.
      PQ = Pretty Quiet!

      Probably clearing the story with other Auntie darn Sarf …well it’s just another branch office. 🙁

    130. Dr Jim says:

      I never knew it was OK to grope people of any sexual orientation in any pub or anywhere else and just be escorted out without consequences

      Just shows the House Of Commons must be used to that sort of behaviour or is groping legal in there as long as you’re one of the RIGHT people

    131. Dr Jim says:

      The English are rubbish at doing Brexit so that means it’s undeniably true that us thick Scotch can’t leave the UK

      We invented Penicillin, Television, Chloriform, Tarmacadam, Steam Engine, Modern Econonmics, Education

      I think we can manage to say cheerio to a bunch of blood sucking thieving charlatons who are unable to draw up an agreement with somebody without trying to insert devious clauses to renege on such agreements at a later date, and then get caught doing it (what a bunch of clowns)

      And we’ll manage it fine without a Spitfire or a Dads Army uniform in sight

    132. call me dave says:

      Interesting comment just appeared on WoS twitter.

    133. lumilumi says:

      The Welsh check. What Scotland would be if not for the SNP government. More Scots should be educated on this, but what can you do? The MSM never, ever tell people how good they have it compared to the rest of the UK.

      Only SNPBAAAAD if everything isn’t perfect. Also, NO to independence because it won’t be perfect – disregarding the main reason for not-perfectness, the control Westminster still has over Scotland and its resources and wealth.

      Better stick with the really not perfect, actually quite bad union because independence might not be totally perfect, aye? Mind boggles.

      There’s so much disconnect. So much UK power play, so much denigrating, nay, ignoring the devolved assemblies/parliaments for all kinds of political points to be made on a UK level. Points to be made in ENGLAND, where most voters reside. The same old democratic deficit.

      It’s sickening. Scottish, Welsh and NI devolved parliaments are just playthings to the UK parties in their UK, Westminster game. Thank gods the Scottish people have sent those UK spivs southward to think again by electing SNP, Holyrood and Westminster. That’s why they’re derided and shouted down so much in Westminster. Daring to rock the UK boat, the English boat of class and priviledge.

      In my country, most inhabitants of the British Isles are thrown together as generic “Brits”. Irish maybe different, but still English-speaking, so kind of Brits. During the Brexit farce, more and more people have become aware that Scots are not English, not even Brits. More and more people want Scottish independence and Scotland to stay in the EU.

      This whole Brexit debacle has made Scotland more visible in the world. Before, it was kilts, tartan, whisky, hills and glens etc. Brexit has made many Europeans to really look at the medium-sized modern country with partial self-government, see it for what it is. Yes, we love men in kilts, we love whisky, but we love the Scots, who seem an open and friendly, and realistic people. Eminently practical and reasonable.

      Unlike their southern neighbour. Which is driving the Empire 2.0 Brexit, and it’s all the EU’s fault if England doesn’t again rule the waves and get special treatment because reasons. (Sigh.)

      I’d think most of the EU27 would rather have Scotland as a member state than an empire-delusional England-dominated UK. Scotland seems reasonable and trustworthy. A country to negotiate with about climate change matters, the oil industry, renewables, even fisheries. Diplomatic, open to some compromise but still holding its own. Like most small and medium-sized Europen countries.

    134. frogesque says:

      Aunty Been has finally woken up:

      “The Scottish Conservatives are investigating reports that one of their MPs was escorted from a House of Commons bar by police following complaints about his behaviour.

      The incident is understood to have involved MP Ross Thomson.

      Police said they were called to the Strangers’ Bar late on Tuesday night following a complaint about “sexual touching”.

      No formal complaint was made to the officers, and there were no arrests.

      In a statement, the Metropolitan Police said: “Police were called at approximately 23:00 on 5 February to a bar within the Palace of Westminster following a report of sexual touching.

      “Officers attended and spoke to the parties involved – three men in their 20s and 30s. However, no formal allegations were made to the officers and no arrests were made.”

      Sources have told the BBC that 31-year-old Mr Thomson was escorted from the bar following the incident.

      A spokesman for the Scottish Conservatives said: “We are aware of reports of an incident last night and the matter is being looked into. We have no further comment to make at this stage.”

      Mr Thomson has been approached for comment.

      The prominent Brexit supporter was elected to Westminster in 2017 having previously served as an MSP at Holyrood.”

    135. lumilumi says:

      call me dave says:
      6 February, 2019 at 5:04 pm

      Interesting comment just appeared on WoS twitter.

      I’m just a bit sceptical about some anonymous Reddit nic “opening up about…” whatever shit.

      I don’t want a social media shitstorm, I want cool heads, due process and facts. Whoever the alleged perpetrator is.

    136. Nana says:

      This took place earlier today

      Discussion on Scotland’s Human Rights Agenda
      6 Feb 2019 – Discussion between Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland and Andrew Gilmour, Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights , followed by a Q&A.

    137. K1 says:

      Are we to believe that Mr Thompson has no past misdemeanours or shall we await a civil servant led change of legislation to backdate any ‘hidden’ disclosures?

      Asking for a pal. Smirk.

    138. Confused says:

      Ross Thomson reputedly said to the horrified victims

      – you sure got a pretty mouth
      – squeal, piggy, squeal
      – do you like watching gladiator movies
      – are you a rock or a sponge
      – wanna make a tenner the hard way

      fascism is gay, see tom of finland (please don’t)

      scotland yard said there was “no case to answer” as the incident fell under the amendment to the 2017 Sexual Naughtiness Act covering
      – “public school banter”

    139. geeo says:

      Stv news, nothing in headlines, then barely 20 seconds of sycophantic arse licking ‘reporting’ then quickly over to the lengthy 2 minute report of a months ago, burnt out building.

      Tory sex pest scandal over.

    140. Republicofscotland says:

      For those who haven’t seen this on WOS Twitter feed, its James Kelly comedy gold.

    141. ronnie anderson says:

      The Police & Fire Brigade answered a emergency call to the house of commons ( strangers bar ) & Hosed doon a rampant MP Ross Thomson . Scottish Conservatives will demand a enquiry when Ruthie gets back to work .

    142. Bob Mack says:

      Ah, Ross Thomson surfaces. I think Mrs May had to take an enema to get rid of him.

    143. Thepnr says:

      Here’s the start of the whitewash.

      Colleagues of Ross Thomson MP ‘worried about stress he was under from Brexit’

      One Tory MP said: “I have been worried about Ross. He has been under a lot of pressure with the workload and Brexit.”

      Another backbencher explained: “When something like this happens, you realise how little support there is for people expand under stress. This is a very stressful place.

      “We have to make sure MPs are looked after.”

      Everybody say awwww.

    144. Jock McDonnell says:


      Poor Kelly. Well, no really, he’s a simpering fud. If he had half a wit, he’d keep away from the telly. MacKay just keeps skelping him. Last week in the chamber was priceless too.

    145. Famous15 says:

      Poor Ross Thomson was so stressed with Brexit that he was trying to find a solution for Theresa May’s difficulties by looking in the underpants of these young men.

      They do say the backstop is bollocks and that was what he was looking for.

    146. Bill Hume says:

      Hey everybody….Ross Thomson…..innocent until proven guilty, like everybody else…… like Alex Salmond.

    147. jezza says:

      The Mirror says he “sexually touched three men”.

      Is that correct?

      Is it men that he sexually assaulted?

    148. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana just watched Nicola link , some people dont listen ie Ambassador of Morocco & his statement [ chief of a region of local government ] Scotland as was stated at the start by Andrew Gilmore is a COUNTRY & Nicola Sturgeon is the 1st Minister .

    149. starlaw says:

      Brexit . . . distilled in Westminster.

    150. jfngw says:

      Easy mistake to make, end up in the Strangers Bar but thought you were in the Hellfire Club. How many of us has not made this simple error?

    151. Famous15 says:

      Thomsons mammy should have told him never to gowith strangers.

      Seriously wonder why there were no charges. Sexual assault like this , if no victim complains, is still a serious public order offence.

      Tories must act against such horrible acts.

    152. ronnie anderson says:

      Just as well Ross Thomson wizna in the strangers bar many years ago & touched up Eric Joyce WHAM BAM YA DIRTY WEE MAN . lol

    153. Famous15 says:

      @Bill Hume. This is nothing like the strange and secretive Alex Salmond case.

      Thomson sexually assaulted these three young men repeatedly having been escorted out three times but returned repeatedly to feel their bottoms and fondle their genitalia and tried to enter their underpants.You cannot say innocent till proved guilty if police strangely take no action.

      Witnesses aplenty and that’s why I do not fear inthis case any risk of a defamation action!

    154. lumilumi says:

      Thank you, Nana, for the link (@ 5:37pm) to the UN round table discussion with Nicola Sturgeon and the UN Assistant Secretary-General for Human Rights, Andrew Gilmour, followed by Q&A with diplomats and journalists around the world.


      I thought I’d take a quick keek but ended up watching the whole thing, about an hour. Nicola Sturgeon conducted herself as a true statesman (stateswoman?), but also came across as a real person with real concerns.

      Imagine Theresa May in a similar situation. Maybot repeating Brexit means Brexit, strong and stable, etc.

      What I liked most was people treating her and her “devolved” country with dignity and respect.

      I tell you, there’s sooo much goodwill towards Scotland in the world. The world loves Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon at the UN just reinforced Scotland’s positive image.

      Unfortunately, foreign powers cannot interfere in a domestic matter, and if not enough Scottish people will decide to be independent… I’m sorry, we can’t help you. After 2014, you’re hostages to Brexit England. It’s making me cry. What a wasted opportunity!

      I’m all for Indyref2, and hopeful (though not at all sure) of a positive result.

      However, the problem is that Brexit Britain (=England, Westminster goverment of spivs and self-seeking elitists) will never let go of its cash cow, all that lovely Scottish oil and gas that is needed to pay for the Brexit disaster.

      So, no Section 30 order, no indyref2. Worst case scenario, devolved powers pulled back, even closure of Holyrood. The UK is descending into modern fascisism, giving a democratic vote on independence does not fit that mindset.

      Maybe there’ll be another way. As I said before, Brexit has made Scotland more visible on the world stage, and people around the world symphatise with Scotland.

    155. Petra says:

      @ Thepnr at 4:34pm …… “PMQ link.”

      Thanks for taking the time to dig that out Thepnr. Iain Blackford is referring to the Tories ripping off pensioners (ScotGov has no control over). Lidington replies by stating, twisting, that the SNP can top up social security benefits and goes on to lie about Scottish taxation and how much money we’ve received in the block grant, which, by the way, the SNP have “squandered”. No mention of the cuts. It’s really galling that they have the last say with no opportunity for corrections, such as, Iain Blackford commencing with “You’re a manipulative, lying sack of sh*t, Davie.”


      @ lumilumi at 5:06pm …..

      Great post lumilumi and just amazing that you seem to have a better idea of what’s going on here than most Scots, thanks to our MSM of course.


      Wee Sammy DUP Wilson is really bealing with Tusk. No doubt scared stiff that he’s one of the Brexit blaggards that’s going to go to hell.

      He accuses Tusk of being part of the Trident wielding cabal. Projection going on here, lol? I thought that Unionists like Sammy actually formed that particular cabal.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      Ross Thomson never did realise that the expression wasn’t “grope-a-dope”.

    157. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      O/T (among all the others),

      The significance of Donald Tusk’s intentional “inner circle of hell” comment should not be underestimated. It is an effective admission by the formerly ever-optimistic President of the European Council that a “People’s Vote” just ain’t gonna happen, and even an “orderly no-deal withdrawal” is looking increasingly unlikely.

      EURef2 joining “snap UKGE” in the heightening pile of UK dead ducks.

      One more evaporated escape route. Only one left…

    158. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, Ross Thomson clearly isn’t the touch judge Tory MP.

    159. Iain mhor says:

      Hey Kelly toot toot yer oot!
      Stress wiz it?
      Has anyone ever look at his een,
      We’re mibbe no sure if he’s a loon or a quine,
      But he can shovel snow like ye’ve never seen,
      It’s Amphetemine Annie fae Aberdeen!

    160. Confused says:

      Has Ross Thomson tried this yet –

      “someone spiked my drink … ”
      – or “bizarre reaction to prescription medication”

      i.e. he possesses a unique biochemisty that can take 2 nurofen and a xanax and synthesise it into – amyl nitrate, GHB, crystal meth and ketamine

      benefit of the doubt? – mistaking a HOC bar for a gay disco?

      – some tech head needs to splice thomsons face into the vid

      I’ve been dealing with “Big Ecks a nonce” and “did he stir the haggis” bullshit for some time now – this is karmic payback and no one gets to spoil it for me, stop all the serious posting now and get on this

      Funny how Thomson’s victims called the dibble straight away and did not WAIT 5 YEARS then report it to their line manager.

    161. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Unfortunately, foreign powers cannot interfere in a domestic matter.”

      I always enjoy your Finnish perspective, lumilumi. I find it ironical, though, that the EU (well, the historically imperialist powers: UK, France and Germany) wouldn’t do anything about the Spanish state brutality against the Catalans but are queuing up to undermine the democratically elected government of Venezuela.

      I’m a remainer and pro-EU but too many European states seem happy to jump when Uncle Sam suggests a suitable height.

      Would any sane person uncritically sign up to anything The Donald demanded? As a citizen of an oil-rich country with a nuclear capability foisted on us by a foreign power, I can’t say I feel The Love from across the Atlantic.

    162. Petra says:

      Meant to mention that STV reported earlier that 340 (360?) Scottish cops have been allocated to deal with any Brexit crisis in Scotland. It followed with Mike Russell stating “to deal with crisis across the UK” and that Westminster are still refusing to give the Scottish Government additional funds as they, Westminster, say they have already given Scotland Brexit related money.

    163. Iain mhor says:

      @robbo 8:16pm

      Oh ma ribs!
      The tears were running doon ma leg.

    164. Iain mhor says:

      Oh in the name oh the wee man!
      Why am I so late to Janey Godley… There’s mair!
      Cheers @robbo!

    165. ronnie anderson says:

      Ross Thomson shouldnae touch things he might Brexit

    166. K1 says:

      It would seem we don’t have to wait for any kind of retrospective ‘enquiry’ to know if Mr Thomson has any form with this type of conduct as his ex husband has informed us all that Mr Thomson’s latest indiscretion provides: ‘A good insight in to why we are no longer together…’

      ‘When your ex husband is arrested due to groping men in a parliament bar and it makes national news. A good insight in to why we are no longer together…..
      8:44 am – 6 Feb 2019

      Or rather *cautioned* by police…’

      The clot thickens.

    167. Petra says:

      Ross Thompson’s ex-husband now spilling the beans! Who next I wonder? And has anyone heard from Jackson Carlaw et al recently? You know the crowd that have tried to keep the Alex Salmond case on the boil.

    168. jezza says:

      Wee Fluffy Mundell is said to be absolutely beelin that he wasn’t in the bar at the time all this groping was going on.

    169. jfngw says:

      Toucha toucha toucha touch me, I wanna be dirty
      Thrill me chill me fulfill me
      Creature of the night.

    170. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ch4 news, the Tory Peter Bone stated that May was a Brexiteer, when he was mumping his gums about Tusk. That would firm up my thoughts that she was a Remainer in the minds of the MSM only.

    171. jfngw says:

      Now when I see the phrase RT interference, I’m not sure if this is still referring to Russia or not.

    172. cynicalHighlander says:

      ronnie anderson says:
      6 February, 2019 at 8:57 pm


    173. Big Del says:

      What’s the betting that the STV website “news stand”
      chooses tomorrow to have the Metro or P&J on it = no word on the Member of Pervament
      and not the National, which will have have it as their headline….

    174. jezza says:

      Lenny Hartley

      I have always said that May is as much as a racist little englander Brexiteer as Nigel Farage is.

    175. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      BBC and STV don’t appear to have noticed that not only did Nicola Sturgeon wow them at Georgetown University (arguably the US’s most prestigious institution) yesterday but she was addressing a UN body today.

    176. Socrates MacSporran says:


      Gotta laugh at the way Donald Tusk has managed to wind-up the Tories and the running dogs of Britunion media nuttery.

      How dare Johnny Foreigner and that Paddy make fun of us, seems to be the reaction.

      Love it.

    177. ronnie anderson says:

      k1 its true what they say Ah wee tickle starts ah deluge lol.

    178. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Tweet there saying Thomson’s targets have decided to press charges…

      Anyone else confirm?

    179. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Should mean a By-Election in Aberdeen South then if true.

      “Thomson’s targets have decided to press charges…” @Ian Brotherhood says at 10:09 pm

      However with TMays non-existent parliamentary majority and Scotland’s rabid British Nationalist Press Dross Thomson may cling on.

    180. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 22:06,

      And also

      The unfailingly humorous yet clinical eviscerations just keep on comin’… =grin=

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Same tweeter has now apologised and said they are not pressing charges.


    182. ronnie anderson says:

      Ian Brotherhood They guys are only one of the many Westminster employees who have been assaulted but kept the mouths shut for fear of losing their well payed jobs or furtherance in their Political parties but I hope they do make official complaints & sue the arse of Thomson .

    183. Bobp says:

      Lumilumi 7.36pm. “Devolved powers pulled back,closure of Holyrood “. Only the people in Scotland to blame for this, the answer is in their own hands. Are they big and brave enough to take that leap of faith

    184. jezza says:

      Question Time from Motherwell tomorrow.

      Should be interesting.

      SNP should be on the front foot.

    185. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Shit, so “SNP Gain” may hing on in there then @Ian B.

      A cheeky wee by-election could have taken our minds awf Brexit for a couple of weeks.

      He’ll be guaranteed to be deselected by Constituency Tory Party now though.

    186. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Question Time from Motherwell tomorrow.”

      C’mon, jezza, you know Motherwell’s full of Tories 😉

      Expect a contingent from the Craigneuk Orange Ludge.

    187. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker

      In a decent, responsible political party, he would be de-selected. However, he is a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party (North British Branch).

      They don’t do decency, or shame, or self-awareness.

      He will not be de-selected, but, will surely be kicked out at the next General Election – unless we get Independence first, in which case, he will get a nice redundancy payment when his job vanishes.

    188. Cubby says:


      Jezza the man from Govanhill who tells Petra to stop watching the BBC and says he does not watch any Britnat TV is now saying Question time should be interesting tomorrow.

      Jezza = Britnat.

      Jezza = the most foul mouthed, odious and deeply unpleasant Britnat character to pop up on Wings for a long time.

    189. jezza says:

      Tinto Chiel

      And Larkhall is nearby is it not???

    190. jezza says:



      What brought this on???

      I advised Petra to stop watching BBC Scotland news because it seemed to be affecting her health.

      You are living up to your name as a site wanker.

    191. What a hard, callous bunch of right-wing, xenophobes this Tory government is..

      except that Ross Thompson, he’s much more ‘touchy feely’

    192. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      About Ross Thomson I have two observations:

      Firstly, the man’s “crimes and misdemeanours” that should concern us are his political ones – and Lord knows there are many – not his personal ones. It must be exceeding hard for indy supporters to resist the temptation to get in some revenge gloating against the BritNat social media rabble, but it surely risks a reaction among ordinary voters of the likes of “well, thae politicians, they’re a’ the same, so why bother?”. Disengagement is our enemy, not our friend.

      Secondly, the HoC is a miserable antiquated unforgiving institution that puts a lot of pressure on its members, more than one of whom has crumbled under it. Of all parties. They are politicians, but they are also flesh-and-blood people just like the rest of us, after all. For Scottish MPs biding there, so far from home, it’s even harder than for many others. That’s not to excuse any misbehaviour by anyone, but it only goes to reinforce my feeling to have all oor ain come hame, and the sooner the better. Both for them and for us.

    193. yesindyref2 says:

      jezza seems to think people here have no memories and sadly it’s correct for many. But you can see here for the full comment to Petra:

      and here (about geeo):

      Blair Paterson 1.17pm
      I see one of the site wankers has introduced himself to you.

      and here:

      Re: My concerns for Petra’s health.
      Petra, I was only trying to steer you away from the valium.
      You come across as a bit of a “Nervous Nerys” type from an episode of Only Fools and Horses.
      Don’t let the bastards of the Beeb get you down hen.
      Take up knitting,,,I’m told it is very calming.

      As Petra said:

      Aw naw the wee foul mouthed sweetie-wife is back on!

      I’m sure you would love to see us all disappearing from the site jezza with the women taking up knitting and the men footering around with jigsaws, but hey it ain’t going to happen.


    194. boris says:

      Tory MP Ross Thomson spoken to by police amid ‘sexual touching’ claims in Commons bar

      It is alleged that:

      Thomson repeatedly sexually assaulted three young men having been three times escorted out of the Commons Bar. He returned repeatedly to feel their bottoms and fondle their genitalia and tried to enter their underpants.

    195. jezza says:

      England don’t like it up ’em and boy did Donald Tusk stick right up them today.

      With his “special place in hell for Brexiteers” comment.

      Go Donald,,,,and him with s good Scots name as well lol.

    196. jezza says:


      Get a life ,,,

      What a sad bastard you are.

    197. tom says:

      Yesindyref2 and Cubby seem to be ganging up and bullying a fellow Winger.

      Absolutely terrible behaviour guys.

      Get a grip please.

      The BritNats are the enemy.

    198. Thepnr says:


      Yer avin a larf innit lol

    199. K1 says:

      rofl, this place is hilarious at times…tagteamtime 🙂

    200. Thepnr says:



    201. K1 says:

      Thpnr 😉

    202. Cubby says:

      Jezza@10.41pm and 11.07pm

      Thanks for proving my point.

      Always heart warming when a Britnat proves your point for you.

    203. ben madigan says:

      sorta O/T – a little light entertainment just to raise a smile

    204. yesindyref2 says:

      Kind of you to jump in “tom”. I’m guessing you’d approve of this for a comment:

      Danny says:
      19 August, 2018 at 10:38 am
      I suggest you mind your own fucking business.
      The drunk, Liz g attacked me on here for NO Reason whatsoever.
      Shouldn’t you have told Liz g to read ALL posts before posting her drunken rant.???

      Notice any similarity?


    205. Meg merrilees says:

      Tinto chill

      Woopee do, question time from motherwell… you think the man in the orange jacket will be on again!!!

    206. tom says:



      Cubby and yourself are taking the thread down a dark track.

      Get back on to fighting the English Brexit fiasco.


    207. jezza says:


      Define BritNat.

      You two just dont like me because you and Yesindyref2 are a perr a pricks and i am not.

      Go on dickheads,,,admit it,,,tell me am right.

      Lol. Ya Perra chancers

    208. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks for the jezza tagteam response. Gives me a chance to show this one from Danny, again spot the similarities:

      Danny says: 19 August, 2018 at 11:25 am
      Daisy Walker
      Mind your own fickin business.
      Did you really need to post that tripe.
      This started with me replying to a drunken rant by a person who was obviously steamin last night (Liz G).
      Please butt out and stop trying to impress the “Crowd” Dosy,
      You are also making an arse of yourself hen.

      “terry” was around at the same time.

    209. Cubby says:


      “The Britnats are the enemy”

      Thanks for that pearl of wisdom.

      I suggest you are the one who needs to get a grip.

    210. Cubby says:

      I’ve been listening to Indylive radio. It’s good stuff. I recommend it for most people except Britnats.

    211. jezza says:

      Cubby yesindyref2

      Same person

      I first thought they were two individual wankers.

      But it is now clear they are actually just one big wanker.

    212. Hamish100 says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      6 February, 2019 at 10:03 pm
      BBC and STV don’t appear to have noticed that not only did Nicola Sturgeon wow them at Georgetown University (arguably the US’s most prestigious institution) yesterday but she was addressing a UN body today.

      There was no time to report on the First Minister. The had to concentrate on bbc radio about Alex Salmond. Almost every day they do this.

      Don’t they realise Independence is bigger than any one person.

    213. jezza says:

      This was yet man Cubby/yesindyref2that kicked all this bullshit off.

      Hope you are proud of yourself dickheed

    214. James Barr Gardner says:

      boris says:
      6 February, 2019 at 11:03 pm
      Woss out of order in Strangers Bar HoC slipping the mitt aka Andrew Marr on 4 PERSONS, whit a dick, will this be reported in the Media tomorrow, like feck, tories cover it up ! Serial mitt slipper, whit a dobber !

    215. geeo says:

      Jezza determined to be sanctioned it seems.

      3 reported posts for abuse in short order, and trying to play the victim. Hilarious.

      They all think they are untouchable until they find out they ain’t.

      Even those using a dynamic IP have been banned, it is inevitable.

    216. geeo says:

      I take a few hours away and it turns out I am not only Cubby, I am now Yesindyre2 as well !!!!

      We are a helluva guy, if i may speak for all 3 of myself. (Chortle)

    217. James Barr Gardner says:

      John Lamont tory MP ??????????????????

    218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 23:00 (and others),

      Instead of echoing contentious trash, or otherwise adding to the problem, follow the rules and report it to Stu.

      This thread has once again degenerated into petty bickering, and who benefits?

    219. mike cassidy says:

      I miss Rock.

      At least you could make jokes about his pin number 2640.

    220. jezza says:


      Geeo Cubby indyref2

      I’m confused,,,I don’t know which one is the biggest wanker.

      Like a wee pack of wolves,,,only you lot are like a wee pack of dickheeds

    221. yesindyref2 says:

      The danger, if it’s not pointed out, is that they say something half reasonable and others not aware, join in and reply to them, treating them as normal posters and hence giving them some credibility. If everyone identified, remembered and ignored that would be OK, but sadly it doesn’t happen that way.

    222. geeo says:


      I reported Jezza.


      I mucked up yesterday by forgetting to link to his abusive posts using the timestamp, which enables Stu to go straight to the offending post.

      Which may explain why he is still around today feeling untouchable.

      Best enjoy his freedom to abuse, i get the feeling it will be short lived.

    223. jezza says:


      You really are a 100% roaster.

    224. Effijy says:

      That Bar in the Commons has been the haunted of sexual deviants for decades at least.

      A close friend was invited to HoC by an MP he was at chool with.

      They had a drink and long chat that extended into the evening when he seen unbelievable actions by MPs and their guests.

      They left as his host knew they wouldn’t stomach what was brewing.

      Scotland needs to remove itself from Westminster Urgently!

    225. Thepnr says:

      It’s a sad fact that Jeremy Corbyn is as deluded as May when it comes to the EU. What’s even sadder is that the Labour party are going along with his delusions and not throwing them out straight away.

      He’s written to May with a list of how Labour will back Brexit, 5 terms he demands and without single market membership, which he doesn’t want have any possibility of being accepted by the EU.

      It looks like Len McCluskey is the one pulling his strings.

      Check out the state of this:

      In his letter, Corbyn calls for the government to rework the political declaration setting the framework for Britain’s future relationship with the EU – and then enshrine these new negotiating objectives in UK law, so that a future Tory leader could not sweep them away after Brexit.

      He says the changes to the political declaration must include:

      A “permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union”, including a say in future trade deals.

      Close alignment with the single market, underpinned by “shared institutions”.

      “Dynamic alignment on rights and protections”, so that UK standards do not fall behind those of the EU.

      Clear commitments on future UK participation in EU agencies and funding programmes.

      Unambiguous agreements on future security arrangements, such as use of the European arrest warrant.

      Corbyn is a total failure and as bad as May, he’ll be gone soon.

    226. Thepnr says:

      If you’re interested then here’s the link to the full article.

    227. yesindyref2 says:

      Thanks geeo. It’s a thankless job but someone has to do it.

    228. tom says:


      So funny.

    229. Dr Jim says:

      QT from Motherwell and the whole town’s watching screwing up their faces and looking at one another saying

      Do you recognise any of those people on that
      Naw I’ve never seen any of those folk
      My the English polulation in motherwell’s fairly grown eh
      Is that no a coonciller frae Larkhall
      Cannae be, this guy’s got a big droopy moustache and a sombrero
      Got it I know who it is it’s Monica Lennon

    230. tom says:

      There shouldn’t be any drinking at Westminster.

      You wouldn’t accept it in any other work place

    231. tom says:

      Question Time will be a must watch tomorrow night.

    232. Thepnr says:

      O/T This is an interesting read, an interview with the Speaker John Bercow from 2009 just after he took over the job.

    233. geeo says:

      So, BBC QT line up.

      Michael Forsyth: Hated thatcher Tory.

      Hugo Rifkind: Churnalist SON of a thatcher Tory.

      Annalise Dodds: Labour MP for an ENGLISH seat.

      Eunice Olumide: Model and indy supporter.

      Fiona Hyslop: SNP.

      So 2 indy, 2 tories, 1 labour (english seat).

      Representative panel then. (sigh).

      Imagine what the audience will be like, dozens of tories in motherwell i bet. After Ravenscraig, the audience should chase the tories out the town.

      Bet they get loads of support instead.

      Mpre Soft No’s to Yes coming tomorrow.

    234. Cubby says:

      Jezza@11.36pm and 11.48pm and 11.52pm and 12.21pm

      Thanks for proving my point all over again.

      Jezza a deeply unpleasant Britnat character. A Britnat playing a character role of a Britnat disrupter.

    235. geeo says:

      Not for long Cubby, not for long.

    236. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 00:26,

      Couldn’t agree more. Corbyn was an ineffectual posturer on the backbenches and he’s still an ineffectual posturer on the front benches. A leadership vacuum. As empty as Fluffy on the other side.

      I once attended an election hustings (remember them?) where Michael Foot was speaking. He was Labour leader at the time. He had his own travails trying to keep his party together – and failed – but even so, he was a genuine left-winger with principles, and no-one had any doubt where he stood.

      As for the Labour Scottish rump and their current hollow man of a “leader” (another McCluskey puppet, natch), I seem to recall you recently trying very sensibly to advise them how to up their game and save themselves. I felt for you because we’ve all been there at one time or another and have all been equally ignored. (Which is daft really, all of us genuinely trying to help them along, but there we are!)

      One can only observe that all the BritNat parties have essentially become fossilised, each one locked into a stasis of its own making and from which it is either unwilling or unable to escape.

      Thankfully we have considerably better prospects. (Sometimes it may seem too many, but that’s another story! =grin=)

    237. sandy says:

      What happened to the rent boys of the 50s & 60s?
      Anyone able to comment?

    238. Confused says:

      60s rentboy writes about Profumo

      – a wild read!

    239. K1 says:

      ‘permanent and comprehensive UK-wide customs union’

      That’s the end of Scotland then.

    240. Shinty says:

      Anyone with a few bob extra to help out Grouse Beater

      (apologies, if this has already been posted)

    241. Petra says:

      Professor John Robertson:


      Spot on RJS (12:11am). What’s the point of cramming this thread and others full with comments about people that you want to get rid of? It’s nearly as boring and off-putting as Rock’s repetitive garbage. Why not just report them, as outlined by Stu, and sit back? Additionally, or conversely, I don’t get why great supporters like Kangaroo are being castigated on here for posting one Wikileak link that wasn’t connected to the independence cause. Hundreds of non-relevant YouTube videos and so on are posted on here with no one making any negative comments at all about the individual / s in question. If we don’t look out this place is going to be seen to be run (run down) by a wee clique.

    242. manandboy says:

      Meanwhile and elsewhere, in the Guardian, in an article entitled ‘Maybot random speech generator gets stuck on repeat’, John Crace reports on May’s recent visit to Belfast, but what I find more interesting are some, indeed many, of the comments – like this one, to take but one example:-

      Suzanne Breen of the Belfast Telegraph asked: “Prime Minister, given that many business figures in this room may feel that you betrayed and shafted them on the backstop in your recent U-turn, why should they believe any of the pledges you made to them today?”

      Suzanne managed to be much more of a journalist in one sentence than Laura managed in the last two and a half years.”

      Brexit and it’s consequences are not under the control of the British Establishment/Government. The ground under their feet is constantly shifting. The perception that May & the Tories are running Brexit is a mirage.

      Westminster’s control of Scotland, and influence in Scotland, require a connection, a bridge, and that essential connection, that bridge, is collapsing. Soon the connection will be broken beyond repair. Then Scotland will gain its Independence.

    243. Golfnut says:


      Well said, some of these spats are seriously childish.

    244. Cubby says:

      An example of an hypocrite is a person who says they care about the environment but they are constantly littering.

      Similarly people on Wings who are not averse to having their own spats but then criticise others for having spats.

    245. hackalumpoff says:

      Links plate 1 of 8

      Not just Scots thinking this. That BBC headline is grossly inaccurate on Tusk’s comments.

      Delighted to meet with Executive Director of @UN_Women @phumzileunwomen this morning to discuss Scotland’s work in gender equality and accept her invitation to become a Global Advocate for the UN #HeforShe? campaign

      Pick a council Kelly, any council

    246. hackalumpoff says:

      Links plate 2 of 8

      NicolaSturgeon has signed an agreement to confirm Scotland will host the 2022 World Forum on FDI – the foremost global event for cross-border investment. Scotland firmly on the world stage as a place to do business

      WATCH: We’re only 51 days away from the proposed withdrawal date and the people who got us into this mess are, unsurprisingly, nowhere to be seen

      Policescotland officers in my constituency have informed me that no new officers’ annual leave is being granted for about a month as of Brexit day (29 March). This demonstrates the sheer madness and mis-management over how #Brexit has been handled by this Tory Govt.

    247. hackalumpoff says:

      Links plate 3 of 8

      F**king hell!@ Look what 13- & 14-year-olds are being taught in England. Chilling stuff. Goebbels stuff.

      Secret union poll shared with @PeoplesMomentum and shadow cabinet members shows “backing Brexit would be worse for Labour than Iraq invasion”

    248. hackalumpoff says:

      Links plate 5 of 8

      Cabinet Office voices concern over Interserve rescue deal

      Ulster Unionist leader @RobinSwannUUP – the first in to see the PM at Stormont – says she must introduce direct rule in NI on March 30 if the UK leaves the EU without a deal on March 29.


    249. hackalumpoff says:

      Links plate 8 of 8

      UK Government has basically admitted that fresh food exports to the EU will cease after a no-deal Brexit until such a time as they manage to get “listed third party” status for UK. This little bombshell is buried on p.72 of the Brexit Partnership Pack.

      And fishermen face a mass of additional red tape..

    250. Cubby says:

      Shinty 6.52am

      Well done in posting this. If you can spare a few quid then please help out the Grouse Beater. We need to nip in the bud the attack on independence bloggers. If not where will it all end.

    251. galamcennalath says:

      Corbyn sets out six tests for Brexit to get Labour backing. I thought he already had six tests set out?

      Same six, another six, TBH I can’t be arsed going to look because it’s irrelevant.

      May’s off the Brussels on a trip that’s equally irrelevant. She will be told the negotiations and ‘the deal’ are over.

      Suggestions there won’t be much ‘deal’ discussion in WM until early March!

      And wheech…. the can gets kicked further down the road leading to the cliff edge.

    252. Heart of Galloway says:

      Typically, the usual media suspects are in a lather over Donald Tusk’s ‘special place in hell’ missile. Predictably, they scream for an apology from the European Council president.

      His language was as uncompromising as it was deliberate – and was EU shorthand for ‘get the feck oot o’ ma hoose’. Europe has had enough enough of Theresa May and her mendacious, arrogant shower of chancers.

      Europe and the UK shook hands on the withdrawal agreement. Theresa May now wants to rip it up 10 seconds from midnight to appease her Europhobe maniacs.

      Behind the scenes EU leaders are incandescent at this perfidy. All Donald Tusk did was to articulate their exasperation.

      The EU wants rid of the UK much in the same way as you would throw up a rotten meal to cleanse the system.

      And this means several things:

      (1) EuroRef2 is dead, if it ever had life in the first place.

      (2) The likelihood of a no deal is growing at the same rate as the time to Brexit reduces.

      (3) Ian Blackford’s telling assertation in the HoC that Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its wishes will assume critical importance.

      (4) FM Nicola Sturgeon will put Scotland’s rights and IndyRef2 centre stage with Europe on or before March 29.

      (5) The Yes movement should begin campaigning in every newspaper, workplace, pub, meeting – everywhere and anytime we can.

      (6) Now.

    253. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links hackalumpoff. I’ll check them out later.


      @ Shinty at 8:05am …….. “Mary-Lou MacDonald.”

      A MUST listen to. That’s Big T telt. A great speech from Mary-Lou. If she, May, carries on the way she’s doing they”ll be calling for a referendum to unite Ireland. The days of Westminster calling the shots for Ireland are over. Next up Nicola.


      What on earth is going on here? Someone trying to promote chaos in Scotland? Is the English Police Force phoning political activists to ask them if they are going to cause trouble? Something stinks!

    254. Colin Alexander says:

      tom says:
      7 February, 2019 at 12:34 am

      “There shouldn’t be any drinking at Westminster. You wouldn’t accept it in any other work place.”

      It’s a shame that Scotland’s MSPs allow drinking of alcohol at Holyrood too but, it is the WM devolution branch office.

    255. One_Scot says:

      Got to love concern trolling, lol.

    256. Colin Alexander says:

      It appears more likely than not, that if Brexit Day continues to be 29 March 2019, Scotland will leave the EU as part of the UK.

      If that turns out to be the case, there would be no transition agreement for two years, so no requirement for UK legislation to be aligned with the EU.

      Now that devolved powers have been power-grabbed to Westminster, if Brexit goes ahead, it’s almost certain that UK Parliament would quickly legislate to make Scotland incompatible with EU law / regulations.


      It would mean the UK can create as many barriers as possible to prevent Scotland having a seamless transition to EU or EEA / EFTA membership because of legislative incompatibility.

      The colonialists / unionists would then highlight this in any future anti-indy campaign.

      The SNP’s lack of preparedness over the last four years is coming home to roost and has handed a clear advantages to the colonialists.

      No, it’s not just a moan.

      Something could be done about it. Our sovereignty could be exercised, even before full independence or without full independence.

      Scotland could declare Holyrood as the sovereign parliament for Scotland, unilaterally amending the Union, without seeking to end the Union. In effect, reversing the devolution settlement.

      So, Scotland’s parliament decides what is devolved (to WM) and what is reserved (to Holyrood).

      Holyrood could then power grab back any powers it wanted to Holyrood. Leaving devolved to WM any powers to be administered at UK level – but with a Holyrood veto, as Holyrood would be sovereign over all legislation affecting Scotland.

      It can’t be done? Why not? Scotland’s people are sovereign. If we can sack a Queen and a King, we can sack the Lords and limit the powers UK Parliament.

      The people of Scotland were promised devo to the max, the UK state failed to deliver that. We should make it happen by exercising our sovereignty and taking the powers.

      We could also find common ground with many who don’t yet support full independence but who are also completely disgusted at the failures of UK Parliament and the lack of democracy for Scotland due to the House of Lords and lack of Scottish representation / EVEL in the Commons.

    257. manandboy says:


      “I think the British have made a lot of assumptions about trade agreements with the US and with other countries and frankly, from a hard-headed economic standpoint, dealing with the EU is a lot more important than dealing with Britain, so I think they have an uphill slog on that,” Mr Morrison said. “They’ve been talking to themselves and not talking to others in thinking how great it’s going to be to be out of the European Union.”

    258. galamcennalath says:

      Heart of Galloway says:

      Behind the scenes EU leaders are incandescent at this perfidy

      … and with good cause! The ‘deal’ on withdrawal is shite, but given May’s hard red lines, what else could be expected?

      The only upside of it is, it has provisions to ensure Ireland’s peace arrangements are protected. And which bits are the AngloNats unhappy with? Yes, that necessary and sensible Irish Backstop.

      The rest of the ‘deal’ is for a Blindfold Brexit with no idea of what future trading might be.

      However it’s what the EU have stretched their own rules to get on to the table. They have bent over backwards to formulate a ‘deal’ which protects Ireland and allows the Tories future scope the follow their preferred hard Brexit.

      Then what do the Tories do, full of exceptionalism and entitlement? Want more, want better. And what to they want? They can’t agree and won’t say!

      May is in for a hard time in Brussels. The ‘hell’ statement was a carefully planted warning of what to expect.

      As for Scotland, the time for action is getting close!

    259. Breeks says:

      I like LBC’s James O’Brien, although he can labour the point sometimes, but he also comes out with some absolute gems….

      “Donald Tusk calls out liars who wilfully misled people. Liars respond by wilfully misleading people about what Tusk said.”

    260. Petra says:

      @ hackalumpoff at 8:56am ……. “Nicola Sturgeon invited to become a Global Advocate for the UN.”

      No mention of this on BBC / STV online. Anyone heard anything about it on the news?


      Details of the EU exit.

    261. Socrates MacSporran says:


      The McGregor incident – never a penalty; unfortunate he caught Ferguson, but, he already had the ball. Play on.

    262. jezza says:

      Tom is absolutely correct,,,there should be zero tolerance to drinking in any workplace.

      Westminster should be no different.

      Shut down all their bars with immediate effect.

    263. mike cassidy says:

      Not exactly “Fox On The Run”

    264. jezza says:

      The City of London has already lost hundreds of billions of pounds because of Brexit.

      And if No Deal is the outcome, it is set to lose Trillions of dollars to the likes of Frankfurt Paris and Dublin.

      Edinburgh and Glasgow could also see a large slice of the City of London pie when we become an independent nation.

    265. jezza says:

      It is starting to dawn on the people of England that London is NOT the centre of the Universe.

      Something the rest of us have known for some time now.

    266. gus1940 says:

      Can anybody produce a compendiumm of the disgusting insults and false accusations which have been directed at Tusk, Barnier, Juncker, Merkel, Macron and other EU politicians and officials by the Brexiteer raving rabble and their media fan club.

    267. geeo says:

      Coco still slavering about subjects he clearly knows nothing about.

      If anyone thinks the ‘power grab’ is a done deal, they have not been paying attention.

      Nicola has STATED she has a plan, and that plan was stated as being revealed “in a few weeks”.

      So why would she reveal what she is going to do to counter illegal WM actions right now, just to accomodate coco ?

      It really eats away at British Nationalists and pretendy Indy supporters (thats you, coco/rock wannabee) that the Scotsgov are keeping the plan under such close guard, until actual deployment.

      It must burn that the SNP has such iron discipline as a Party, that there has never been even a hint of a leak about the indy plans of SNP Scotsgov, when the Unionist parties are so riven by division on every subject they leak everything to score points against factions within their own parties.

      Bottom line is, if it turns out the SNP do not have a strong plan of action prepared to deliver an indyref or dissolve the Union, then they will likely pay a heavy price at the polls, especially amongst those ex labour supporters who moved to the SNP to try get independence.

      If anyone thinks the SNP are about to meekly slide into an electoral disaster, again, has not been paying attention.

      If a guy in front of you is aggressively pointing in your face, pushing you and goading you, do you tell him you are about to knock him out with a winning left hook, of just pick your moment, then take the victory as he lays at your feet, defeated?

      The audience watching who said “why is he not doing anything” are left looking rather daft.

      We are winning, and have hardly had to swing a metophorical blow yet.

      It is all about timing and preparation behind the scenes.

      If you think that is not happening, again, you have not been paying attention.

    268. hackalumpoff says:

      gus1940 says:10:44 am

      Just listen to James O’Brien he’s going well this morning.

    269. Dr Jim says:

      Sky news Boulton has a woman on claiming the United Kingdom is a country then claims the Irish (Republic) will have to think long and hard about what they want to do because the United Kingdom has made it’s decision and that’s it

      Then went on to describe Scotland as a part of the United Kingdom and the people of that United Kingom voted to leave the EU which they’re entitled to do but Scotland doesn’t have the same entitlement so Scotland just has to accept that

      It seems many of these Brexit people have never been to school, or is that what they teach in England’s schools

      It’s all becoming a bit Heil England and not enough people are noticing this

      I’ve often noticed that the poor folk in Wales have somehow ceased to exist in all these conversations

    270. Valerie says:

      Good post, geeo @ 11.06

    271. Kangaroo says:

      Petra @7:23am

      Many Thanks for your support. I have been an indy supporter since the early 60s so not quite in RPs category but getting there.

      Geeo robbo thepnr

      Some of my posts may be off-topic, I accept that. I also understand why some people are not interested, just as some people in Hong Kong or Timbuctu would not be interested in indy or Brexit. Scotland is however only 5.5m out of a world pop of getting on for 8billion. We are a small cork in a very large ocean and events outwith our control will impact us whether we like it or not. That is why it is important to know what else is happening. Indeed Brexit is outwith our control, as WM are ignoring us, and just look at the massive impact it is having, and it hasn’t even begun to bite.

      Wikileaks has been reliably reporting for over ten years and have never been found wanting as they research all leaks before they print. So it’s all very well for posters to suggest these links are conspiracy theories, but unless they have counter evidence to support their assertion then they are the ones without credibility. I provided that particular link together with other supporting links/ information that I believe to be credible. Having researched this particular story for 2years at least, I have no doubt that they are correct. I also understand why they are very very difficult to believe as they seem totally outrageous, unless you have done a significant amount of research, hundreds of hours at minimum.

      As I stated previously if you don’t want to look just skip past. There are plenty of posters on here and lots of people looking in who I am sure will do just that to many of the commenters.

      Lastly I pay my money to the Wings fundraiser just as many others do and a little bit of tolerance to a few off topic comments would be appreciated.

    272. Cactus says:

      Tis soon to noon People of Scotland…

      FMQ’s begins at 12pm mid-day:

      Hey Indy Live Radio, here’s a thought… is there any chance you could stream FMQ’s audio on to the Indy Live Radio frequency?

      Would make for an excellent weekly Thursday slot.

      Maybe a radio discussion to follow afterwards.

      “General Questions” aboot tae finish.

    273. Why are there Brutish Labour MP`s parked on the SNP front bench in the Commons,

      that duffer Skinner has always been there like a church gargoyle,

      but recently two or three other Brutish Labour MP`s have been parking there fat arses in SNP teritory,

      plenty of room on there own benches,

      just being c@nts.

    274. Daisy Walker says:

      Really powerful speech by Mary Lou McDonald on Phantom Power.

      Wow. Why is that not international (and BBC Headline) news? Like I didn’t know.

      Interesting to wonder how it could be facilitated, if WM refuses to accept/implement it.

      Rather think Eire could hold it on the border, and the EU could adjudicate. And/or mobile poling booths… hmm maybe not the safest in NI.

      It seems the UK is wakingup to being a rather small fish in a big pond, and Ireland’s friends in the EU and America are making their presence felt.

      Mike Russell’s reply re Police Scotland’s officers being deployed in NI was interesting – its an operational decision, not one Politicians can interfere in (apparently).

      He used the term – ‘as the second biggest Police Force in the UK’ Police Scotland may be asked to provide mutual aid.

      Their are 2 issues with this – firstly Policing is devolved and PS is paid for by the Scottish tax payers, and secondly as an entity PS is the 2nd biggest in the UK, but in reality Scottish tax payers make up 10% of UK public and this is reflected in Police numbers.

      If, PS provides Mutual Aid (and I wouldn’t throw that baby out with the bath water) it should be no more than 10% of the total numbers needed.

      Turks comment yesterday – everyone is focusing on his ‘hell’ comment, but the really important part was his comment about No Deal being the realistic outcome now, with no leadership red or blue for other options. For him to put that message out there, is a game changer.

      I shall say this theory one more time, because it holds more and more water, with every day that passes.

      The whole Brexit game plan was about preventing the new Tax Haven legislation from being implemented in stages from 1/1/19 and the following 2 years, and hitting the establishment ultra rich, with their centuries old stashes of ill got gains from the Slave Trade, the Opium Trade to China, the Spice Trade and the British Empire asset stripping of entire continents.

      To that end – SM and CU membership was a complete no go, as it involved jurisdiction from the European Court of Justice (and that means accepting ALL of its laws, including the new tax Haven ones).

      Any transition period is also a no go, as it would involve the above.

      Terrible May has managed (and now trashed) the impossible with her rubbish deal, because for the only time in history, the EU allowed another country to trade (sort of) in keeping with their standards – and ALLOW the UK to ADJUDICATE any disagreements. i.e. They were getting a pass on the new Tax Haven laws.

      This was ground breaking. But as a second string to the bow, it meant any future trade deals (by which I mean total sell off of our nations assets and public services) to the USA could not be achieved.

      The tories could live with either TM’s terrible deal (2nd best option) or No Deal (first choice) – and either of those options have been what they’ve been playing for all along.

      Nothing else about Brexit makes the slightest sense in terms of what they say they are aiming for and the actual reality.

      And lastly – a No Deal provides chaos, riots, enables state of emergency, enables them to close down Holyrood. And shut down any legitimate, elected method of holding Indy Ref 2.

      I wonder if our elected SNP reps actually, understand this last part or are 2 far in the woods to see the trees.

      We are running out of time.

    275. Sarah says:

      O/T @Kangaroo – you are completely right. I always read your contributions whatever the subject. I am guilty of O/T comments [usually noted as such] – birdwatching was the most recent example!

      What was the subject of Rev’s post again? Oh yes, the failings of MSM – again. What can I add to that? Not a lot other than keep writing to your local paper telling them the truth and hope they print your letter sometimes.

    276. Sarah says:

      @ Scot Finlayson 11.56: those Labour MPs sitting on SNP bench may be demonstrating their solidarity and appreciation of SNP efforts, perhaps?

      Always the optimist…

    277. Capella says:

      @ Kangaroo – I too like to post some OT links if there is something in the “bigger picture” that I think relevant.

      @ Cactus – I switched over the FMQs but I really can’t listen to Richard Leonard droning on and on so I’ve bailed out. Jackson Carlaw was bad enough but at least he’s more of a comedy act than a genuine MSP “holding the government to account”.

    278. Famous15 says:

      Watching FM Questions my eyes glaze as I watch the nodding ducks and the braying donkes but I was really taken with one performer on the LibDem benches.

      TAvish Scott has morphed into Mr Punch and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    279. Robert Peffers says:

      Great performance by our deputy FM this afternoon. John dished out more than a few skelpit earses. Particularly to Jackson Carlaw and Murdo Frazer.

      John tends to be too much the gentleman at times – this wasn’t one of those times.

    280. Sarah says:

      @ Petra re your link to the “Institute for Government”: don’t you find it worrying, at the very least, that this “Institute” is named and designed to look as if it is indeed a real Government site?

      I read the piece and then looked to see if it was the Irish Government talking to us only to find that it is a bunch of people who are NOT in any government. Without looking into it further the Board members may all be kindly and democratic folk BUT the very name of their organisation is deceptive. It could be akin to the “Institute for Statecraft” which we know is a cover for undercover anti-democratic activities.

      Or am I paranoid?

    281. Confused says:

      Tusk being a euro would be acutely aware of the literary connotations of his remarks “special place in hell”

      Dante was “having a go” at people of his time. Sure it was poetry, but it was also – trolling and shitlording as well – in all ages, abusing the wankers of the time, has been a universal joy.

      If you think about London and its elite, its main pillars of foundation are

      Banking – i.e. “USURY”
      War – links to the spooks and military, interested in exporting MURDER, across the globe
      Deviant sex and libertinism – weird kinky shit, dungeons in mayfair, kiddy fiddling – “SODOMY”

      – when you look it up USURY, SODOMY and MURDER – it puts LONDON at around the 8th Circle of Hell

      I think these bankers, probly freemasons to a man, troll us in return – did anyone notice how The Shard with its twin spikes on top looks like the tower of Barad Dur in LOTR? Presumably they are waiting for their dark lord to come back? Tolkien, a catholic, was likely highly aware of the masons.

      The 9th circle of Hell, the last is reserved for the betrayers – Judas Iscariot is down there; what people don’t know is that there is a LOT of extension work going on at the moment – they are making more room for a new intake, coming real soon –


      for Kangaroo, in case you missed it
      – the entire site is a massive trove, probably a cut above your average rense/jones/icke sort-of place.

    282. Dr Jim says:

      I’m always fond of the pantomime bit following FMQs with Toodle oo the Noo and his *journalistic* chums and today was no exception as we were given the opportunity to listen to The Daily Records David Clegg who is normally a Labour supporting voice in all circumstances

      Today David Clegg decided to support the CUP (Conservative and Unionist Party) over the *possible* car parking charges because in his opinion that might lead to the SNP losing some votes, because in David Clegg’s opinion nobody will blame the Greens for this, they’ll blame the SNP, and he went to pains to make that point

      So here we have again the one party opposition stance in Scotland demonstrated clearly by the Daily Record, they don’t care who wins or how badly it might affect Scotland as long as the one party Unionist opposition wins

      The Daily Record now supporting the DUP the CUP or anybody else who has a chance of bringing down the only actual Scottish party from being in government in Scotland

    283. Dr Jim says:

      Previous Labour administrations at Holyrood returned Scotlands budget cash to Westminster whlie taking out Private finance Initiatives to create debt for future Scottish government and councils to fund the interest payments

      When you think about it why did they deliberately tie Scotland to enormous debt repayments? and then you come to the obvious conclusion that it depresses Scotland’s ability to grow by strangling Scotland’s cash flow for the future

      A Gordon Brown plan, leader of the LUP (Labour Unionist Party) always working hard to crush Scotland for generations

    284. gus1940 says:

      On today’s FMQs Bouncing Richard went yet again on the matter of Bed Blocking in particular at the disastrous PFI scam at RIE.

      When it comes to Bed Blocking and who is responsible the following seem to have been forgotten:-

      Under Thatcher the Geriatric Hospitals and the Convalescent Hospitals were closed down and their functions replaced by hundreds of private Nursing Homes set up by Thatcher’s pals who made millions before most or many subsequently went bust leaving a shortage of beds for patients ready to leave hospital.

      When the plans were announced to replace ERI with RIE it was announced that RIE would have fewer beds than ERI the reason given and accepted at the time being that with medical advances the time patients would have to stay in hospital had been greatly reduced.

      The above political decisions were taken long before The SNP came to power and were presented to them as a fait accompli.

      Does anybody know how many beds there were in the old ERI and how many there are at RIE?

    285. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 7 February, 2019 at 11:06 am:

      ” … It is all about timing and preparation behind the scenes.
      If you think that is not happening, again, you have not been paying attention.”

      I tend to agree with you on that score, geeo.

      However I also think the final k.o. might come from a totally unexpected direction and not simply via the ballot box. There have been some, seemingly innocuous, moves in different courts that have the potential to throw a very big and aggressive cat among the unionist pigeons.

      It may not need an actual indyref2 to gain independence for Scotland but a court ruling in one court that will be upheld by other courts including the international ones.

      Always remember that there simply isn’t actually a United Kingdom Rule of Law. Westminster rules under the English Rule of Law but has, where the laws differ, added wee bit as amendments at the end of acts to accommodate the Scottish legal system.

      However, there is a general misconception that there is a UK legal system and Westminster, as usual, thinks that Westminster has legal sovereignty – it doesn’t and never has such legal sovereignty. There is no legal documentation to say that it has but the Treaty of Union say it has not. The argument in a nutshell is simply this – either the Treaty of Union is extant or it isn’t.

      If it isn’t then there is no union and thus no United Kingdom.

      If it is extant then Westminster is a union of two equally sovereign kingdoms and the Scots, being legally sovereign, can simple say the union is over and begin to negotiate the Scottish Kingdom’s share of the joint assets of the United Kingdom and there is no law that says Westminster gets to decide who owns what for Westminster is not the legal parliament of either the country or the kingdom of England. Just who then is legally the representative government of England? England doesn’t have a parliament and Westminster belongs to both kingdoms.

    286. Terence callachan says:

      Interesting that the British border in Ireland is Theresa mays target

    287. Cubby says:

      Dr Jim @1.32pm

      Excellent post. You can never remind labour supporters about PFI debt repayments often enough. In a long list of betrayals of Scotland by labour this must be right up there as one of the worst.

      Labour the phoney Party. It astounds me that they still have so many people in Scotland who vote for them. I guess we have the Daily Record and Clegg to thank for that.

    288. Capella says:

      On the debt theme – Aberdeen Labour councillors went to the Stock Exchange in London to raise finance through bonds. The money came with a clause saying that, if the voters of Scotland voted for independence then the loan must be repaid immediately. That would bankrupt Aberdeen.

      So Westminster parties use what Chris Hedges and others call “debt peonage” or debt slavery or bondage to suppress democracy. Yes you can vote fror whatever you like but you will be bankrupt.

      An American definition here:

      George Monbiot updates it for our modern UK in his article on odious debt i.e. PFI contracts:

    289. Golfnut says:

      @Robert Peffers.

      Well said, like you I believe the International courts will come into play very soon.

    290. Robert Peffers says:

      @Daisy Walker says: 7 February, 2019 at 12:04 pm:

      ” … I wonder if our elected SNP reps actually, understand this last part or are 2 far in the woods to see the trees.
      We are running out of time.”

      It took you a while to get there but there it is – SNP BAAAAD!

      Of course they understand that – and a damned site more as well and certainly a lot more than you or I, who do not have the backing of the finest Scottish Legal brains and many other assorted experts they employ both as a political party and a government. Certainly a lot more expertise than random commenters on internet forums.

    291. Sarah says:

      Re Ross Thomson reports in Scottish papers?
      BBC front pages on their Twitter:
      Yes – Daily Record, P&J, Herald, Daily Express, The National, the i, Daily Telegraph “Police quiz Aberdeen MP over “touching””.
      No – Scotsman, Scottish Daily Mail, The Times, Daily Star [Danny dyer, Ant and fitba – no politics at all].

      The Scotsman and Mail are ranting about car parking instead of the outrageous behaviour of a Scottish MP. A rhetorical question – if said MP had been an SNP one, what do we think would have covered their front page?

    292. Petra says:

      You might be right Sarah (1:05pm). Sorry about that. Not being paranoid, lol, as I see it’s a think tank (that won a top award last year) stuffed full of English people, however I doubt they’d lie about the process, as someone in Ireland would no doubt pick up on it. As far as I know if a majority of people in NIreland want to hold a referendum Westminster can’t stop it, as per the Good Friday Agreement.

      I’ll see if I can dig something else out later when I’ve got more time, such as the GFA.

    293. Gerry says:

      @robert 2:25

      Agree 100%. I know my way round legislation fairly well, especially around indy concerns. I know it well enough to understand just how little I know in comparison to those that the SNP have in the backrooms putting it under the sort of scrutiny that takes specialists. I wouldn’t dare to try and 2nd guess them.

      It’s one thing to know the law well enough to recall and apply it via precedent. These guys on the other hand are navigating uncharted ground to an extent, and thank goodness we have them.

      Interestingly, as far as I can tell, there is nothing that the UK gov can do to legislate to the point where the UN is off limits to us as a people and nation. No matter what emergency powers they bring into play, the UN still has competence when we break the surface of the UK in terms of international law.

      I always enjoy your posts Robert because I glean some detail or other from them. Thanks.

      Now. Where was oor Nicola this week ?

    294. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sarah says: 7 February, 2019 at 12:17 pm:

      ” … those Labour MPs sitting on SNP bench may be demonstrating their solidarity and appreciation of SNP efforts … “

      Nah! Denis the menace? solidarity with the SNP?

      His only solidarity is the big lump of solid state matter on his shoulders.

      The thing is that Denis suffers from the same mental illness as his London Labour in Scotland pals in Holyrood and several Scottish councils.

      They just cannot come to terms with the truth that they are no longer entitled to claim what was once exclusive Labour territory.

      Denis believes that the voters will come back to Labour and Denis thinks those SNP benches are rightfully Labour territory.

    295. Sunshine says:

      Golfnut, Robert Peffers etc, I am also now convinced that the courts will be forced to intervene very soon.
      Listening to Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford and Stuart Hosie, among others recently, they are all saying, and often repeatedly, that Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against it’s will.
      Not shouldn’t be, mustn’t be, or we hope that it doesn’t happen. Instead they have all used the words ” will not be”.
      I hope that some kind of declaration will be made soon.

    296. Sarah says:

      @Robert Peffers 2.42: it was the new Labour people sitting with Denis that Neil at 11.56 referred to who I opined might be there to support the SNP. Tongue in cheek, of course!

    297. Liam says:

      They just cannot come to terms with the truth that they are no longer entitled to claim what was once exclusive Labour territory.

      And they have yet to come to terms with the truth they have nothing to sell.

      What does Labour stand for these days? ‘Not being the Tories’ is hardly a Unique Selling Point. Come to that, what do the Tories stand for these days? All they do is engage in endless infighting to be at the steering wheel with no idea where to go when they get it.

      The SNP may have its bouts of internal division but at least we know where we’re going.

    298. Daisy Walker says:

      Dear Robert Peffers.

      I did not create Brexit. I did not create the danger Scotland (and rUK) currently faces.

      I am aware of the extra dangers Scotland faces from the threat of English/British Nationalist determined to cling on to the Scottish Cash Cow and extinguish the very nature of Scotland if needed to do so.

      I completely understand the need for the FM to play her cards close to her chest.

      The rest of us have a need to understand – the real game being played – and disseminate that information to the rest of the public – so they can understand the danger their country is in, and make (when the time comes) an informed decision.

      With very little in the way of information coming out of the SNP – I and others are entitle to ask, are the SNP aware of the dangers we are currently facing?

      I repeat, if we have no deal, and we are taken out of EU, we automatically lose civil and democratic rights, Holyrood will be diminished via the power grab, and then ‘temporarily’ closed down under emergency power acts. Brexit is an establishment coup.

      Quite how you interpret that as SNP Baad, is mind boggling.

      You are entitled to your unquestioning, blind loyalty. Independence is bigger than the SNP, much as I appreciate the huge part they have and have to, play.

      It was mindsets and bullying behaviour like yours that enabled the Labour Party to pull the wool over the Scottish electorate for over 100 years.

      There is room for questioning, in fact there absolutely has to be room for valid questioning, and any party that cannot deal with that has problems.

      Enough now.

    299. Capella says:

      Labour stands for getting into Downing Street. It sounds as if they are willing to vote with Theresa May to be in a customs union. That way, there’s no need for a hard border in Ireland and May won’t need the votes of the DUP to pass it in Westminster.

      She might cobble enough Labour and Tory votes to pass it.

    300. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Reluctantly, I must disagree with Auld Boab Peffers. Because I feel some Labour voters will return to Labour – but only after Independence.

      Indeed I can see fissures opening up within the SNP, but, only after Independence has been achieved.

      I am sure that some natural conervatives and socialists, who have realised, the London-centric parties are not Scotland’s friends and have gravitated across to the SNP, perhaps made the journey from No to Yes since September, 2014 could return to their natural political home once Independence has been achieved.

      However, for that to happen, Labour and Conservative parties would need to become 100% Scottish. No commitment to restore UK rule, no funding from outwith Scotland etc. That might be some way away, but, some time in the future. perhaps 15 or 20 years down the line after Independence, it could happen.

      MInd you Boab, thankfully, you and I will probably not be around to see this.

    301. galamcennalath says:

      Sunshine says:

      they are all saying, and often repeatedly, that Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against it’s will.

      I agree that it is significant.

      It’s not a random turn of phrase, not a glib remark among general discussion. It’s a specific phrase being repeated over and over in every significant speech, interview, or statement.

      IMO it’s laying out a firm policy, a line in the sand. It will be the basis for action, soon.

    302. Luigi says:

      Capella says:

      7 February, 2019 at 3:06 pm

      Labour stands for getting into Downing Street. It sounds as if they are willing to vote with Theresa May to be in a customs union. That way, there’s no need for a hard border in Ireland and May won’t need the votes of the DUP to pass it in Westminster.

      She might cobble enough Labour and Tory votes to pass it.

      And then all hell breaks loose.

    303. geeo says:

      @robert peffers @1.44pm

      Totally with you on the no indyref hunch, been saying such a thing for several months now (predating the Continuity Bill case, judgement).

      Thing will move quickly when the time comes, but i am utterly certain that “now is not the time” will be laughed all the way to a courtroom of some kind.

    304. Luigi says:

      galamcennalath says:

      7 February, 2019 at 3:10 pm

      Sunshine says:

      they are all saying, and often repeatedly, that Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against it’s will.

      I agree that it is significant.

      It’s not a random turn of phrase, not a glib remark among general discussion. It’s a specific phrase being repeated over and over in every significant speech, interview, or statement.

      IMO it’s laying out a firm policy, a line in the sand. It will be the basis for action, soon.

      Are the SNP setting out their red line?

      Hope so. If so, it could be a nasty surprise for the British establishment. They have been so busy carpet-bombing Scotland with fake news and SNP-bad stories, and mixing it with the nasty street-fighters (that’s us!) during the last two years, they may have failed to notice an irresistible force in the shadows, quietly preparing a knock-out blow.


      Can’t wait to see the look of shock and horror in their mad eyes if/when this comes to pass. 🙂

    305. Lenny Hartley says:

      o/T re broadband, SSE got very good 1 year deal for combined Leccy and Broadband, cost of unlimited fibre including line rental £11.50 per month , however if you use sse broadband you need to sign up for there calls package to landlines and mobiles which cost an additional £8 a monthgiving a total of £19.50 a month for all your calls and unlimited fibre. Obviously if you dont already use them for electricity you need to transfer your account so make sure the leccy costs are good for you. You also need to tell them you want a smart meter.

    306. geeo says:

      @Socrates McSporran.

      Which labour Party in an indy Scotland will that be then ?

      As currently constituted, NONE of the 3 unionist parties will be allowed to operate in an indy Scotland.

      So unless a new, ACTUAL, Scottish Labour Party is birthed upon independence, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO ties of any kind to the labour party of a foreign country, there will not be a labour party in Scotland.

      And frankly, if there was to be one, then now is the time (to coin a phrase) to declare the Split with The Labour Party, and declare Actual Scottish Labour as a pro independence party.

      Not much sign of that so far, so for now, indy = RIP Labour in Scotland.

      The loss of the 3 unionist accounting units will create space for new Scottish Political parties, which better represent Scots and Scotland’s interests.

    307. Sarah says:

      @ Petra 2.35: no need to apologise for the link to “Institute of Government”. I was just discussing with you the possibilities of their status, as trained by the Rev! I hadn’t the time to look further into who they all are on the Board – may be harmless types or may be not.

    308. Shinty says:

      geeo says “As currently constituted, NONE of the 3 unionist parties will be allowed to operate in an indy Scotland”

      Good to know that geeo, I often wondered what would happen.

      Would be up for a big party outside Holyrood as they leave!

    309. Capella says:

      @ Luigi – and then all hell breaks loose

      “How many divisions has the Pope?” as Stalin once said.

      TM probably thinks there’s nothing anyone can do about it. It all boils down to numbers. Her deal passes in Westminster. The UK leaves on 29th March. Everybody gets drunk for a month.

    310. geeo says:


      You said this re: conspiracy postings.

      “a little bit of tolerance to a few off topic comments would be appreciated”.

      You said it yourself, OFF TOPIC.

      Gently suggest you post it in off topic ?

    311. Robert Peffers says:

      @Gerry says: 7 February, 2019 at 2:39 pm:

      ” … No matter what emergency powers they bring into play, the UN still has competence when we break the surface of the UK in terms of international law.”

      Very true, Gerry.

      Several very important facts cannot be overlooked.
      First is that the Westminster Government is not the actual Parliament of England but it acts as if it were.

      Next is that, as the United Kingdom Government, it supposedly represents both kingdoms but runs as the parliament of England and thus is devolving English powers to three underling countries but Scotland is a fully equally sovereign kingdom partner and there are only two partners in the United Kingdom.

      The Biggy though is that the United Kingdom Government are not only signed up to the Human Rights laws as the United Kingdom but as part of EU, the United Nations and the British Commonwealth.

      A basic tenet of those Human Rights is for any recognisable group of people to have the right of Self Determination.

      Now the area of, “North Britain”, was recognised by the Romans as a recognised group of people. They gave then the generic name of, “The Picts”, and in those day, England had not even been invented.

      Even when the extreme south of Britain became known as, “Angle Land”, after the south Britons invited the Germanic tribes of Angles, Jutes and Saxons into south Britain that area we now call England only occupied such as Essex and Wessex. The rest of south Britain was composed of many smaller kingdoms, such as Northumberland and Cumberland.

      Can the United Kingdom deny that both the kingdom and country of Scotland predates England and the subsequent Kingdom of England?

      Unlike both Wales & Ireland we have never been legally part of the Kingdom of England and the United Kingdom is not England.

      There is an unshakeable case if the people of Scotland demand it. The United Nations is presently rather upset by the United Kingdom and their reports are extremely critical of Westminster rule. Likewise the European Union. Both these organisations must abide by international diplomatic protocols and will only indirectly indicate their displeasure and both have already done so.

      Our present FM, and her predecessor, both travelled to other World Powers, and invited World Power representatives to Scotland.

      Both SNP FMs did great work for Scotland’s case but the general public don’t get to know these things yet there are many indications of how Scotland is respected Worldwide.

      When the time is right our independence may come suddenly and from an unexpected direction.

    312. Capella says:

      @ geeo – please see Stu’s advice on posting off topic comments, to be found on “please read this page for comment rules” link:

      5. There’s a time and place for everything.

      Comment threads go off-topic. That’s okay. But posting about a completely different subject in the first few comments on an article is just mind-bogglingly rude.

      If you have something totally unrelated that you really really have to say, either post it in an older thread or just bite your tongue for the four or five minutes it’ll take for there to be half-a-dozen on-topic comments. Break this rule and you’ll either get timestamp-shifted to two hours into the future or deleted, depending how cranky a mood we’re in.

    313. Gerry says:


      Out of our current spread, only the tories are not registered as a specific Scottish party.

    314. Arthur Thomson says:

      So the quiet spoken one is apparently making overtures to the other Tories to come together for Brexit. Just another twist in their attempts to get out of their self-imposed Brexit straitjacket. Each time they struggle, the tighter it gets and the more foolish they look.

      It is a very entertaining pantomime but ultimately the Brits are in a no win situation whatever way they turn.

      Common sense will prevail in the end and there will be another EU Referendum. Too many of the Brit political elite have too much to lose from any other outcome and I have no doubt they are colluding right now to get their way.

    315. Sunshine says:

      Where is Ken 500. Did I miss something? Hope he is well.

    316. geeo says:

      Shinty@ 3.48pm

      Don’t forget, Ruth Davidson said she would lead her tory MSP’s out the Holyrood chamber if Nicola called indyref2.

      She might need a babysitter soon, and a penny whistle to play as she leads the rats away from Holyrood.

      Her chum Arlene should be able to spare her one.

    317. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sarah says: 7 February, 2019 at 2:48 pm:

      ” … @Robert Peffers 2.42: it was the new Labour people sitting with Denis that Neil at 11.56 referred to who I opined might be there to support the SNP. Tongue in cheek, of course!”

      Yes, Sarah, I gathered that – and I could see your tongue in your cheek all the way from here.

    318. geeo says:

      @gerry: “Out of our current spread, only the tories are not registered as a specific Scottish party”


      Comedy Gold !!!

      You may want to check out Clause 3 of the Labour Party CONSTITUTION before blithering.

      Clause 3 – The Party’s Financial Scheme

      1 The party has adopted and registered with the Electoral Commission a financial scheme, whereby THE PARTY CONSISTS OF A CENTRAL ORGANISATION and SEPERATE ACCOUNTING UNITS.

      2 THE FOLLOWING SHALL BE ACCOUNTING UNITS under the financial scheme:

      (a) CLPs


      (c) Wales Labour

      (d) the National Organisation of Labour Students (‘NOLS’)

      (e) the Association of Labour Councillors (‘ALC’)

      (f) the Trade Union and Labour Party Liaison Committee and the Regional Liaison Committees

      (g) the Parliamentary Labour Party (‘PLP’).

      3 The following may, subject to the approval of the NEC, become registered as accounting units under the party’s financial scheme:

      (a) local government committees (‘LGCs’)

      (b) such other party units as shall from time to time be agreed by the NEC to be eligible for registration.



    319. Shinty says:

      Gerry says:
      7 February, 2019 at 4:03 pm

      “Out of our current spread, only the tories are not registered as a specific Scottish party”

      Untrue Gerry.

    320. Valerie says:

      @ sunshine

      I too have noticed that phrase being used.

      “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU, against her will”

      It definitely made me think, uh oh, that’s a warning, and sounds like he knows something they don’t.

      It’s always made me think of the 62% expression of our will.

      A while back, shortly after the EU, discussing the result in Branch with politicians, they drew a picture of the party expecting Scotland to vote Remain, but in a slimmer margin. The 62%, and the fact it was every constituency, caught them off guard, but in a good way, because it galvanised them into positive action.

      I just wonder how much of a case we have.

    321. mike cassidy says:

      With Ruth Davidson returning at the beginning of May,

      “Insiders said her comeback in Aberdeen follows concerns Tories are “losing mom­entum” north of the border.

      And some senior figures fear Ms Davidson still being away when Nicola Sturgeon makes her move on holding IndyRef2 in the coming weeks. “

      Do they know something we don’t?

      Or do they not know something we do?

    322. cirsium says:

      @Daisy Walker, 3.04pm
      repeat, if we have no deal, and we are taken out of EU, we automatically lose civil and democratic rights, Holyrood will be diminished via the power grab, and then ‘temporarily’ closed down under emergency power acts. Brexit is an establishment coup.

      Well said, Daisy. I can only repeat what a Gilet Jaune said “we’re not sure if we will win but we will lose for sure if we don’t fight. We must fight.”

    323. Davosa says:

      Just watched Derek MacKay wipe the floor with James ‘Moron’s moron’ Kelly and Murdo ‘Bigot’ Fraser at the finance committee. Brilliant wee man and you didn’t need to try to hard either.

      Kelly and Fraser must be 2 of the biggest wankers in the history of the Scottish Parliament.

      BTW Ross Thompson MP (not for long) – blah- hahahahahah

    324. schrodingers cat says:

      if a pro eu party were to stand in swiss, norwegian or iceland parliaments, no one would stop them.

      the same is tue about scotland.

      if after a yes vote, pro uk parties wished to stand for election in an indy scotland, there rights to freedom of speech would ensure there would be no block on them doing so.

      if we won indyref2 by say 52%, do you really think the unionists would give up? in 2021 they would stand again hoping to form a unionist coalition to reverse indy.

      the idea the snp would fracture or just give up our independence at the exact moment of its greatest risk, pulling defeat out of the jaws of victory as it were, is not a good idea.

      after a yes vote this or next year, we must ensure a pro indy majority in 2021 at holyrood.

      only then, facing 5 years in opposition, will the unionist parties accept what will be by then a fait accompli and begin to break ties with westminster.

    325. galamcennalath says:

      Re against will.

      Remember what the mandate from the manifesto says …

      “We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

      [my bold]

      The SNP are pointed repeating, at every opportunity, the mandate the Scottish Parliament was given.

      Also, take note of the ‘or’ … it’s not an ‘and’.

    326. schrodingers cat says:

      westminster wont shut down holyrood, they wont need to

      the unionists parties will simply walk if indyref2 is called.

    327. schrodingers cat says:

      we could run by elections in the constituencies, hell we could even stand pro indy slab and tory candidates but im not sure what would happen to list msps

      better if we dissolved holyrood before the unionists walk out.

      they will almost certainly not participate in a indyref2 with no s30

      more difficult for them to not participate in a he,

      more difficult to guess what unionist controlled councils will do, they are in control of ballot boxes and polling places in their respective areas.

      btw, for folk worried about the 29th march cut off point……. it doesnt exist. the unionists can and will go down this road regardless of the date

    328. Gerry says:


      I was sure labour was registered in Scotland seperately, but apparently not, libdems neither. So just greens and snp exclusive to Scotland (out of the main ones)

      But seeing as you were so amused and saw fit to try and rip the piss, then you should think on your previous point about what parties will be left, because the day after indy is declared, there won’t be any, because the electoral commission is central UK.

      As for “comedy gold”, you really should get out more. Gain some perspective.

    329. schrodingers cat says:


      the unionist will simply say they have a 55% mandate from the once in a generation indyref1 and have every right to refuse to participate in undyref2 or another he.

      all treeza will need to say is now is not the time for either and the unionist councils will boycot both

    330. schrodingers cat says:

      best solution, a no deal brexit to be announced and a ge to be called, the yoinists in scotland would have no option but to stand.

      the snp turn it into a defacto referendum on indy and win over 50% of the vote

    331. schrodingers cat says:

      food for thought

      there is a way through this but timing is crucial

      it isnt time to get angry, it’s time to get smart

    332. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Daisy Walker

      Not sure if you’re on Twitter Daisy but there you can access lots of SNP info-casts (also on SNP site). Also lots of SNP MPs, MEPs, MSPs, Councillors etc on Twitter expressing views and opinions. Point I’m making is that on Twitter the SNP is much, much more visible (as is the YES movement generally).

    333. Gerry says:

      @geo said

      “As currently constituted, NONE of the 3 unionist parties will be allowed to operate in an indy Scotland. ”

      Comedy Gold !!

      Maybe think a bit before you blether a lot of mince Geo.

      The EC is central UK. The office in Edinburgh for example is part of the UK political fabric. As it stands ALL the parties will need to register post indy with a Scottish specific EC which would be set up in the interim, so NONE of the parties will be registered and the unionist parties will be entitled to register if they so wish on exactly the same basis as the Greens and the SNP will have to.

      oops, indeed.

    334. schrodingers cat says:

      we must ensure a pro indy majority in 2021 at holyrood.

      this is why i support tactical voting.

      in 7 of the 8 regions of scotland, 850k snp list votes manage to elect 1 snp list msp, marie todd.

      i repeat, one, 1, uno etc.

      my mistake in 2015 was backing other pro indy parties, greens etc, for indy folks list vote. that mostly failed. yes supporters didnt trust them enough, perhaps rightly so, either way, i wouldnt do this again.

      but i wont give up on the idea of tactical voting, regardless of what terry kelly says, the figures dont lie,

      in 7 of the 8 regions of scotland, 850k snp list votes manage to elect 1 snp list msp, marie todd.

      i repeat, one, 1, uno etc.

      the problem isnt tactical voting, it is finding a group that can command the respect, trust and belief of yes voters, to do the right thing.

      Im open to suggestions.

    335. Robert Peffers says:

      @Daisy Walker says: 7 February, 2019 at 3:04 pm:

      ” … I did not create Brexit. I did not create the danger Scotland (and rUK) currently faces.”

      I never said you did.

      ” … I completely understand the need for the FM to play her cards close to her chest.”

      Then you have a strange way of showing it.

      … “The rest of us have a need to understand – the real game being played – and disseminate that information to the rest of the public – so they can understand the danger their country is in, and make (when the time comes) an informed decision.”

      You may need to understand it but if you were to know what the SNP/SG had in mind and disseminated that information to others the opposition would soon know what was coming their way.

      ” … With very little in the way of information coming out of the SNP – I and others are entitle to ask, are the SNP aware of the dangers we are currently facing?”

      Oh! Come on! No one needs a Crystal Ball to be only too well aware that the SNP and the SG are also well aware of the situation and what is more they are far closer to the action than we are. They also have people employed to keep them informed. I’d bet there are also SNP spooks who have infiltrated the Westminster Establishment both elected and employed.

      There is even other commenters here on Wings making good points.

      For example:-

      Sunshine says: 7 February, 2019 at 2:45 pm:

      ” … I am also now convinced that the courts will be forced to intervene very soon.
      Listening to Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford and Stuart Hosie, among others recently, they are all saying, and often repeatedly, that Scotland will not be dragged out of Europe against it’s will.
      Not shouldn’t be, mustn’t be, or we hope that it doesn’t happen. Instead they have all used the words ” will not be”.”

      The leadership are not going to telegraph the Establishment what is on the cards but there are more than enough signs that they know exactly what they are doing. No one in the SNP and SG leadership seem anything but confident and sure of what they are doing – and it shows.

      Whatever it is they have been working at it for a considerable time. Alex Salmond travelled to meet World Leaders and I do not think he was discussing with them the relative chances of Celtic and Rangers in the Scottish Cup. I watch these goings on and I note the subtle changes in attitudes slowly changing. For example there has been a lot more support for Scotland coming from the EU and EC. Have a wee look at this:-

      Then note the reactions of the European parliament to Farage in the same YouTube clip.

      The SNP leadership have more than once spoken with the United Nations and such like World wide organisations. I don’t believe they were speaking about the price of fish suppers in Scottish chippies.

      All you get in the United Kingdom, and in Scotland in particular, is a one sided report of anything and it is either all one sided of suffers from total omission. Furthermore, the Establishment case is an obvious total tissue of lies.

      The so called United Kingdom is a lie. It calls itself The United Kingdom but it runs as the Country of England with three dominion countries. The very name says it is a Union of Kingdoms and there are only two Kingdoms in the Union.

      Westminster uses EVEL and that shows they think England are the rulers and can block everyone else from getting a say. Westminster ministries are now only running England directly. They tell us that we get a grant of English Taxpayers money and we should be grateful that the give it to us. Yet we pay our tax just like everyone else.

      Well actually NOT like everyone else for the Scottish per capita GDP is, under normal conditions, higher than any other country in the entire United Kingdom. Yet that is without the so called, “Extra-Regio Territory”, revenues from oil & gas that are up to 98% from Scottish territorial Waters.

      Lok up what the definition of, “Extra-Regio”, means and you find it is defined as:-

      “The term Extra-Regio is applied to economic activity that cannot be assigned to any specific region within a country.”

      Now where did I get that definition from?

      And that massive link is from The Office of National Statistics Guide.

      This, of course is not the only Westminster rip-off from Scotland. We have the notorious, “Grid Connection Charge”, scam. In this they totally reverse the principle of the Free Market Economy. This states that the owner of a commodity, especially a scarce commodity, can charge the best price he/she can demand on the open market.

      So what is this National Grid Connection charge? Well it isn’t actually just a charge in the first place for in certain areas of the United Kingdom it is a payment to the generators.

      The Westminster rule is that the further the generator is from London the higher the charge for each unit of electric current that generator has to pay to the National grid. Thing is that they actually subsidise those generators in and around London and pay them for each unit added to the National grid.

      Oh! Did I mention they also grabbed the Scottish Crown Estates income and added it to the Kingdom of England Crown Estates?

      Do you know how long Scotland has been a Net exporter of electric power to England? since 1946>/b>. The very first cross-borders grid link ran from the old Edinburgh Portobello coal fired power station into England and that was followed by the undersea cable from Scotland to Northern Ireland.

      Everything about this so called union is a lie. Do you really imagine that such as the European Parliamentarians are daft? They know that Scotland is an English colony – pity more Scots didn’t know it.

    336. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Gerry at 5:32 pm.

      You typed,
      “As it stands ALL the parties will need to register post indy with a Scottish specific EC which would be set up in the interim, so NONE of the parties will be registered and the unionist parties will be entitled to register if they so wish on exactly the same basis as the Greens and the SNP will have to.”

      I agree, a Scottish Electoral Commission would have to be set up, for SCOTTISH parties to register with.

      However, one of the rules I would suggest that SEC would need is that no SCOTTISH party can receive funding from outside SCOTLAND – neither from “other” parties nor individuals.

    337. schrodingers cat says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:

      However, one of the rules I would suggest that SEC would need is that no SCOTTISH party can receive funding from outside SCOTLAND – neither from “other” parties nor individuals.


      good point

    338. Sarah says:

      @ Robert Peffers at 4.21 – lol! It was that poker face of yours that deceived me…

    339. Gerry says:

      Hey Brian @ 5:55

      I agree. There should be a low limit on spending also so that grass roots counts. It puts more campaign control in the hands of the electorate.

      There may be a danger of collaboration between exclusively Scottish branches of the unionist parties with their rUK counterparts. I can’t see them just shrugging their shoulders and walking away. The real danger is that they try to impede Scotland’s progress to keep the gap between Scottish and rUK as tight as they can, if they should get the chance to do that.

      After all, imagine the uproar in rUK if we were doing relatively well economically. So I suppose there will be a period of readjustment for the whole place. And that is when we will need to be vigilant.

    340. Meg merrilees says:

      Mike Cassidy

      re the return of (t)Ruthless on May 4th

      I think the next phrase is even more telling:

      If she decides NOT TO COME BACK we will all back her

    341. geeo says:


      Utter drivel.

      I PROVED to you that ‘scottish labour, for one example, are ABSOLUTELY NOT a Political Party.

      Which part are you not understanding?

      Clause 3 – The Party’s Financial Scheme

      1 The party has adopted and registered with the Electoral Commission a financial scheme, whereby the party consists of a central organisation and separate accounting units.

      2 The following shall be accounting units under the financial scheme:

      (a) CLPs

      (b) the Scottish Labour Party

      (c) Wales Labour

      (d) the National Organisation of Labour Students (‘NOLS’)

      (e) the Association of Labour Councillors (‘ALC’)

      (f) the Trade Union and Labour Party Liaison Committee and the Regional Liaison Committees

      (g) the Parliamentary Labour Party (‘PLP’).

      3 The following may, subject to the approval of the NEC, become registered as accounting units under the party’s financial scheme:

      (a) local government committees (‘LGCs’)

      (b) such other party units as shall from time to time be agreed by the NEC to be eligible for registration.

      If you believe THE LABOUR PARTY registered with the Uk Electoral Commission, can simply register with AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND’s Electoral Commission, constituted as they are, and operate in Scotland, then you have rocks in your head, and probably think the SNP (and other current MP’s from Scotland) can keep turning up at WM after independence.

      Oops indeed.

      THE LABOUR PARTY will be no more a Scottish Party than Angela Merkels CDU Party.

      Are you saying The CDU can simply register with the new Indy Scots EC and stand candidates in Scotland?

      It is the exact same as claiming The Labour Party can do so.

      You are making a right erse of yourself here. Best quit while behind and have a modicum of credibility left.

    342. schrodingers cat says:

      for clarity

      1. slab is a uk funded unionist party

      2. once indy, slab will need to register as a scottish party

      3. they will be funded by the people of scotland, not the ruk

      4. if they wish, they can continue to be a unionist party

    343. geeo says:

      More drivel, Gerry@6.04pm

      Try understand this concept, AS CURRENTLY CONSTITUTED there will NOT BE ANY OF THE 3 UNIONIST PARTIES allowed to operate in an independent Scotland.

      No ifs, no buts.

      Comply (with Scottish eligibility rules) or die.

      That is the choice they all 3 face, for their ACCOUNTING UNITS.

      If they completely split from the Party machine, become completely new legally Scottish entities operating exclusively in Indy Scotland, then they will no longer be ACCOUNTING UNITS of ‘THE PARTY’ Machine and will become SCOTTISH REGISTERED POLITICAL PARTIES in their own right, and be allowed to participate in the indy Scottish body politic.

      Would folk vote for them after being seen as the same people who fought tooth and nail AGAINST indy, is another issue.

      Not sure how much simpler i can make this for you.

      You seem determined to continue talking mince, which makes you either deliberately obtuse or just willfully thick.

    344. schrodingers cat says:

      @geeo and Gerry

      this chat room is virtually empty but you still managed to start a fight in it,

      chill folks

    345. Gerry says:

      @Geo, seen you in action too often here to engage with your pish any further. Others seemed to understand perfectly what is being said. So just move on.

    346. jfngw says:

      Was Ross Thomson canvassing as a Conservative candidate or was he one of the Ruth Davidson candidates, according to many of the leaflets in 2017 anyway.

    347. Gerry says:


      Take a look back at how Geo reacted to an honest mistake. No wonder this is turning into a half empty echo chamber. Used to be a great place for info. Sadly not so much now.

    348. geeo says:

      Haud yer tongue there cat, i am merely pointing out the ludicrous claims of Gerry, which he is simply continuing to pot despite me posting conclusive proof (FROM The Labour Party CONSTITUTION itself) that he was totally wrong.

      That is not ‘starting a fight’, that is asserting fact over opinion.

    349. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sarah says: 7 February, 2019 at 6:00 pm:

      ” … lol! It was that poker face of yours that deceived me…”

      Believe it or not you got that one correct, Sarah.

      Not even my nearest and dearest ever know when I’m having them on, unless it is something very ridiculous. Mind you I occasionally caught them out with something that sounded daft but wasn’t.

    350. Iain mhor says:

      Heheh @Confused 1:05pm
      “Le Cercle” popcorn*popcorn.
      Patron: a certain Otto von Habsburg of the house of Habsburg-Lorraine, who is decended from Sigisbert VI…
      The Merovingian.
      It’s the Merovingian bloodline Mammy! Ah’m telling ye it’ll aw come oot in the wash!

    351. @Sarah,

      The church gargoyle Skinner was one of the rebel Brutish Labour MP`s that voted for (against Labour PM Callaghans wishes) the 40% amendment (brought in by Labour MP and born in Scotland but British not Scottish George Cunningham)that scuppered the 79 Scottish devolution vote,

      this action by the cursed Cunningham and Skinner was cited by Labour Prime Minister Jim Callaghan as the true genesis of the abomination Thatcher.

    352. geeo says:

      What “honest mistake” was that tho, Gerry ?

      I proved your point as being false. Yet you repeated it later, ignoring the clearly stated evidence otherwise.

      You admit an honest mistake and do not repeat it almost immediately.

      The fact you now try to assert this nonsense says it all about your motivation.

      “No wonder this is turning into a half empty echo chamber. Used to be a great place for info. Sadly not so much now”

      “Half empty echo chamber”

      OR: biggest pro indy blog with hundreds of thousands of unique visitor numbers, where unionists and media lies are debunked on a DAILY BASIS.

      “Used to be a great place for Info”.

      OR: This site is THE go to place for critically important information, from the over 5000 fact checked articles to the hundreds of thousands of informed opinion/facts from the myriad of btl posters.

      “Not so much now”

      OR: Gerry has an agenda, as that claim is clearly utter nonsense as previously explained above.

      Genuine question Gerry.

      Did you not believe the Rev’s above the line post (this topic) was “good information: ?

      What about his other 5000 topics ?

    353. schrodingers cat says:

      it sounds like a fuckin’ kate bush record in here today, nyah nyah nyah nyah ………

    354. Gerry says:

      And there ya have it. 6 years I’ve been coming here and all of a sudden Geo decides that I have an agenda.
      For the record, Stu’s work is first class. I was talking about the comments section being less of a place for exchange of ideas, and more about confrontation.

    355. Footsoldier says:

      QT from Motherwell tonight: Michael Forsyth (anyone under 70 – who?), Fiona Hyslop (attack dog she ain’t) chaired by Fiona Bruce (establishment). Time for BBC to wipe out QT altogether and put us all out of our misery.

      This is an appalling line up showing the BBC absolutely and completely out of touch with Scotland.

    356. hackalumpoff says:

      @ Daisy Walker
      7 February, 2019 at 3:04 pm

      Well said totally agree.

    357. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I see from the Rev’s twitter feed that “Aberdeen South – SNP Gain” knows his funny hand-shakes.

      But he must be in a very special ludge, since he only shakes hands with Wullie, Dick or Boaby, or indeed as the Rev’s picture shows, any thick prick.

    358. geeo says:

      The comments section is abound with great posts, ideas, discussion etc.

      Just because someone shoots down obvious nonsense, REPEATED nosense after correction with facts, does not weaken btl, in fact it enhances it, as the truth gets spread about that subject, rather than a falsehood, deliberately intended or otherwise.

      You , Gerry, claimed that: “Out of our current spread, only the tories are not registered as a specific Scottish party”.

      You took the huff when corrected, then repeated your claim later, when you then knew you were wrong.

      Why ?

    359. Petra says:

      Sarah the Northern Ireland Act 1998 outlines the criteria for holding a reunification referendum. Being mindful of course that the corrupt cabal at Westminster can change legislation at the drop of a hat.

    360. Sarah says:

      @ Scot Finlayson. Dennis Skinner – another great disappointment. He should be open-minded but isn’t. Empty-minded, definitely, but not open! What on earth is it to him, in Bolsover, that Scotland regains her rightful place? I just don’t get it.

      @Schrodinger, geeo etc: good to see the point that I raised a few days ago about non-Scottish parties, with their funding, being outlawed. I did email the First Minister about it as she is the Scot gov minister for electoral procedures, suggesting that such parties be banned right now from standing in Scotland-only elections but the response from her office didn’t seem to agree that it is possible. Pity.

    361. Gerry says:

      @Petra, there’s a fair bit in the Good Friday agreement re border polls in Ireland. here

      Page 3…

      “(i) recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the Union with Great Britain or a sovereign united Ireland;

      (ii) recognise that it is for the people of the island of Ireland alone, by agreement between the two parts respectively and without external impediment, to exercise their right of self-determination on the basis of consent, freely and concurrently given, North and South, to bring about a united Ireland, if that is their wish, accepting that this right must be achieved and exercised with and subject to the agreement and consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland”

      I hadn’t read it until recently. It’s worth a look.

    362. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Hi, does anyone have a link to the definition of the UK, I think it was the UN one, but cant find it now.

      It explains the makeup- unitary state formed by K of Scot, K of Eng, including pricipality of Wales, and Province of NI. I did have it bookmarked on an old ‘puter but cant seem to find it again

    363. Petra says:

      Question Time tonight from Motherwell and who’s on the panel. Dimbleby allowed Michael Forsyth, hard Brexiteer, to commandeer every programme he was on. Will it be any different with Fiona “I take my orders from the BBC” Bruce? More than anything who has been selected to be in the audience?

    364. Sarah says:

      @ Petra 7.29

      The NI Act on polling looks pretty restricted to me, on a quick glance. Only to be held if the Sec of State thinks a majority want unification. Only to be held again after 7 years have elapsed. Mmmm.

    365. Thepnr says:

      What one leave voter in Romford thinks today about Brexit.

      “I voted to leave and I would stick by that decision now. I’m fed up it’s taking so long but I don’t regret how I voted. The reason it’s so drawn out is because there are loads of people in our government who didn’t want us to leave, so they’re trying to make it so we have to stay.

      “My main reason for voting was because I didn’t want us to be run by another country.

      “I think Romford is pretty similar to Enfield. It doesn’t surprise me that people here voted to leave the EU. I don’t know a lot about politics but I think a lot of people were fed up of having another country tell us what to do. I was fed up of the rules and regulations other countries put on us.”

      Asked how she now felt about the way Brexit was going, Beverley said: “I don’t watch the news any more. I don’t read the papers, I don’t want to know what’s going on because they don’t care what the people want. They only hold votes when they want something for themselves and then they do what they like anyway.”

      There are no doubt many Scots who still feel exactly the same about their No vote in 2014. We will have our work cut out for us whenever Indyref2 takes place. I’m certain that the strongest voices in the next campaign will be our own in the one to one conservations we must have. Hope we are up to it.

    366. Petra says:

      Thanks for that Gerry (7:43pm). I’ll trawl through the 35 pages, lol, when I get more time. So far however it looks as though the people of Northern Ireland will have few obstacles (other than the “No a Surrender crew”) put in their way by Westminster to achieve their Independence, unlike the Scots. Then again Scotland the cash cow!

    367. cynicalHighlander says:

      An awful lot of people counting there chickens before they are hatched, win indy first.

    368. Petra says:

      Ha ha ha, Sarah! Who knows how this will all pan out?

      Meanwhile, if you haven’t heard it already, it’s well worth listening to Mary-Lou MacDonald, Leader of Sinn Fein, telling Big T where to go. Great scriptless speech.

    369. cynicalHighlander says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      7 February, 2019 at 5:38 pm

      we must ensure a pro indy majority in 2021 at holyrood.

      this is why i support tactical voting.

      in 7 of the 8 regions of scotland, 850k snp list votes manage to elect 1 snp list msp, marie todd.

      i repeat, one, 1, uno etc.

      my mistake in 2015 was backing other pro indy parties, greens etc, for indy folks list vote. that mostly failed. yes supporters didnt trust them enough, perhaps rightly so, either way, i wouldnt do this again.

      but i wont give up on the idea of tactical voting, regardless of what terry kelly says, the figures dont lie,

      in 7 of the 8 regions of scotland, 850k snp list votes manage to elect 1 snp list msp, marie todd.

      i repeat, one, 1, uno etc.

      the problem isnt tactical voting, it is finding a group that can command the respect, trust and belief of yes voters, to do the right thing.

      Im open to suggestions.

      Because idiots who support indy listened from bogus lies purportrated by Rise and Green supporters.

      SNP voters cannnot tactically vote it’s SNP twice as it is only unionist voters who can use that tactical method.

    370. Legerwood says:

      Daisy Walker @ 3.04 pm

      “”With very little in the way of information coming out of the SNP – I and others are entitle to ask, are the SNP aware of the dangers we are currently facing?””

      I find it incredible that you should make such a statement. I am truly surprised that you should suggest even obliquely that the SG is unaware of the dangers.

      Of course the SNP are aware of the dangers and have warned about them even during the referendum itself when campaigning for a Remain vote.

      The first thing Ms Sturgeon did the day after the referendum was make clear that EU citizens were valued and welcome in Scotland because she knew the importance of their contribution in all areas of Scottish life and to the Scottish economy. Something she also stressed in her recent speech in Washington and many many times throughout the last 3 years.

      In December 2016 the Scottish government produced their paper ‘Scotland’s Place in Europe. It took the uK Government another 2 years before they managed to produce anything similar.

      Mike Russell, Alyn Smith and many other SNP MPs, MEPs and MSPs have warned of the consequences of a no deal Brexit – job losses 80,000 etc. Often pooh-poohed by the likes of Mundell and labelled scaremongering they have proved all too prescient and been confirmed by independent experts.

      Then there is the loss of powers in Westminster’s power grab. Warned about time and again by the SG and underlined by the walk out of the SNP’s MPs. Hence the Continuity Bill because the SG were only to well aware of the dangers to the Scottish Parliament.

      While the usual suspects went into their well rehearsed and often used mantra of SNP grievances etc the walk out made people sit up and take notice but it was the court case on the Continuity Bill that confirmed in forensic detail that what the SG was saying about a power grab was completely true.

      The judgement from the Supreme Court confirmed:
      1. That the Continuity Bill was within the competence of the Scottish Parliament i e they had the powers to pass such a bill
      2. The UK Government knew the Scottish Parliament had that power
      3. Knowing this the UK Government passed legislation using the unelected HoL to take those powers away from the Scottish Government and Parliament.

      The judgement sets it all out in forensic detail and thus confirms and supports the claims of the SG of a power grab.

      All of that and more demonstrates that the SG/SNP has been very alive to the dangers of Brexit and have worked tirelessly to warn of those dangers and taken steps to try to protect, in so far as it is possible, Scotland from Brexit and all it will entail.

      But there comes a point when those efforts are not enough. That moment is close and when it arrives then…indyref2.

      As I said Daisy, I am really surprised at your apparent lack of awareness of what the SG has been doing, doing because they are only too well aware of the dangers of Brexit and the dangers inherent in it to the Scottish Parliament.

    371. jezza says:

      Question Time

      10.45pm BBC 1.


      Should be interesting.

    372. jezza says:

      Who’s paying for all these waisted flights to Brussels that
      Treeza keeps making???

      And the Scottish Tory branch office have the cheek to question our First Ministers’ expenses for her trip to America.

    373. Lenny Hartley says:

      Socrates MacSporran @19.25 brilliant lol

    374. schrodingers cat says:

      cynicalHighlander says:

      Because idiots who support indy listened from bogus lies purportrated by Rise and Green supporters.

      SNP voters cannnot tactically vote it’s SNP twice as it is only unionist voters who can use that tactical method

      really, in 7 of 8 regions, the 850k snp list votes elected 1 list msp. you think that voting tactically could make it worse?

      do tell

    375. Petra says:

      @ Alan at 7:48pm …… “UN defintion of the UK.”

      Alan, I’ve tried searching for you to no avail. Maybe someone else on here will help out? Robert Peffers?

    376. stu mac says:

      WGD doesn’t miss here:

      I’ve been looking at TheCanary recently and despite their pro-EU stance they are so enamoured of Corbyn they won’t pull him up on his Brexit support. Pity as it’s sometimes not a bad sight (some good stuff recently on Venezuala).

    377. chicmac says:

      Do not rush to allow May and co the moral cloak of incompetence.

      Brexit is definitely in the conspiracy rather than cock up category for the ultra right.

      EU anti tax evasion and money laundering laws currently being enacted made hard Brexit a must for the City and this country is run by the City.

      Feigned incompetence is merely a smokescreen they can get away with electorally because of Jeremy Corbyn’s real incompetence.

      They spotted the fortuitous opportunity which Jeremy Corbyn presented and called off their dogs to keep him in power.

      Incompetent they are not, they know exactly what they are doing.

      Once there has been a complete transition to a full blown right wing dictatorship after Brexit, Corbyn is toast (along with Holyrood if we are daft enough to miss the escape window).

    378. defo says:

      “A mother has spoken out after being cleared of stealing £15,000 from a food bank.

      Julie Webster was accused of taking the cash from the food bank in Maryhill, Glasgow, which she helped set up.

      She was finally cleared after vital paperwork was examined by prosecutors four days before she was due to go on trial at Glasgow Sheriff Court.

      These showed that Julie, 42, had not taken any cash, but she is angry at how long it took to clear her name.”

      “four days” ffs, this isn’t a accident.

    379. Colin Alexander says:


      So, the SNP knew the dangers for years. It’s now 50 days to Brexit Day.

      The Continuity Bill was not about stopping Brexit, it was about the Scottish Parliament’s devolved powers AFTER Brexit.

      As for Indyref2, how does indyref2 stop Brexit?

      It’s going to be impossible to hold indyref2 and have a YES result in and declare independence in less than 50 days.

      Aye, the SNP were well aware of the dangers, warned of them, lots of nice speeches etc. Campaigned and petitioned UK Govt etc.

      But, never once have they tried to exercise Scotland’s sovereignty as part of the UK to prevent Brexit. Never once have they tried to uphold Scotland’s vote to Remain or hold a Scotland only EU-Ref, to present to a court that by the Claim of Right and Scotland’s people’s sovereignty that Article 50 is unlawful as it breaches the sovereignty decision of the people of Scotland.

      So, explain to me how the SNP can stop Brexit now? I’m willing to read and learn.

    380. schrodingers cat says:

      SNP voters cannnot tactically vote it’s SNP twice as it is only unionist voters who can use that tactical method


      um, is this because you think indy supporters cant count past 10 without taking off their hoes and socks?

      i think your comment proves my point, i merely stated we can vote tactically but we lake any group that indy supporters trust.

      so here’s a thought experiment, for simplicity sake I;ll assume you live in glasgow region


      snp 111,101 0 seats
      slab 59,151 4 seats
      tory 29,535 2 seats
      sg 23,398 1 seat

      if we were to fund 4 candidates (£2000) to stand under a WOS banner, and we selected you cynicalHighlander as one of our candidates, would you vote for yourself? more importantly, do you think the resst of the indy movement would vote for you?

      if the next he tactical vote is as successful as the last, at the very least you would replace patrick harvey

    381. crazycat says:

      @ Alan Mackintosh at 7.48

      A supposed “UN” definition of the UK as a “constitutional monarchy consisting of four constituent parts…” is fairly frequently referred to, with no citation.

      A while ago I did a search for this text, and eventually found it, but not in a UN document. I’ve been looking for it since your question (I was sure I’d downloaded it, and I had, but the title is not what I had remembered!).

      Section 10.2 of this:
      contains the following:

      The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy consisting of four constituent parts:
      • • • 3 countries: England + Scotland + Wales*
      • 1 province: Northern Ireland.

      * Though there is a Prince of Wales, this role is deemed to be titular rather than exerting executive authority, and therefore Wales is described as a country rather than a principality

      (I’ve replaced a superscript reference number with an asterisk for clarity.)

      This definition is just asserted, with no derivation.

    382. Thepnr says:


      It’s a disgrace that such accusations can be made then completely dropped just days before it goes to trial because the truth of the matter turns out to be that there is not enough evidence to have even been charged in the first place.

      Two and a half years this dragged on for because “an allegation was made” that’s all it takes. then days before the trial is due all charges are dropped. Many of course believe any allegations before the trial and by accounts she suffered a lot for this. In her own words:

      She told how she was driven out of her home in Glasgow after being spat at in the street and having her home targeted by vandals.

      Ms Webster said: “I almost miscarried, my partner had cancer and needed life-saving surgery.

      “If it wasn’t for my mum and my dad, financially I would be broken.”

      This is becoming all to regular an occurrence when it comes to those that are supporters of Independence it would seem.

    383. Thepnr says:


    384. cynicalHighlander says:

      schrodingers cat

      Simple maths lets say Indy SNP 80% Greens “20%
      Unionists Lab 40% Lib 20% Tory 40%

      Lets say Halve of Snp Go green on 2nd vote the unionisst will almost go for anyone to beat the SNP so they are far more likely to get what they want. I prefer to listen to phesologists who know what they are talking about than some person on the internet who has a liking for the Greens.

    385. @defo,

      Another innocent persons life/integrity wrecked by vindictive, malicious false accusations,

      all resolved 4 days before trial after 2.5 years of fear and worry,

      heads need to roll,

      disgraceful and heartbreaking.

    386. george wood says:

      “schrodingers cat says:
      7 February, 2019 at 8:59 pm

      cynicalHighlander says:

      Because idiots who support indy listened from bogus lies purportrated by Rise and Green supporters.

      SNP voters cannnot tactically vote it’s SNP twice as it is only unionist voters who can use that tactical method

      really, in 7 of 8 regions, the 850k snp list votes elected 1 list msp. you think that voting tactically could make it worse?

      do tell”

      We are talking fine margins here.

      The SNP constituency vote went up 1.1% and they gained 6 seats, whilst their list vote went down 2.3% and they lost 12 list seats.

      The Green vote on the List went up by 2.2% and their List seats went up by 4. If the changes in percent vote were down to SNP supporters voting SNP 1 Green 2, then if they had refrained from doing so, the SNP would have mostly likely have had an outright majority.

      They only needed 2 more seats from the list.

    387. call me dave says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      I read that food bank story and recall the incident being reported all that time ago.

      What a worry and devastating thing to happen. She has my sympathy.

    388. george wood says:

      “schrodingers cat says:
      7 February, 2019 at 8:59 pm

      cynicalHighlander says:

      Because idiots who support indy listened from bogus lies purportrated by Rise and Green supporters.

      SNP voters cannnot tactically vote it’s SNP twice as it is only unionist voters who can use that tactical method

      really, in 7 of 8 regions, the 850k snp list votes elected 1 list msp. you think that voting tactically could make it worse?

      do tell”

      We are talking fine margins here.

      The SNP constituency vote went up 1.1% and they gained 6 seats, whilst their list vote went down 2.3% and they lost 12 list seats.

      The Green vote on the List went up by 2.2% and their List seats went up by 4. If the changes in percent vote were down to SNP supporters voting SNP 1 Green 2, then if they had refrained from doing so, the SNP would have mostly likely have had an outright majority.

      They only needed 2 more seats from the list.

    389. Dr Jim says:

      A guess at one scenario:

      The EU and the UN can publicly or officially say nothing about Scotlands position within the UK until the member state the UK leaves the EU, but the UN have publicly critisised the UK on various positions

      Post Brexit is the time when anyone can openly and publicly citisise the UK and openly support Scotlands right to Independence

      And they’ll be queuing up outside Bute House to do it
      Just like they’re supporting Ireland right now

      The opposition will feign outrage Boris Johnson will threaten to send a gunboat and demand war on everybody but there will be nothing, nothing they can do to stop the virtual Tsunami of political figures visiting Scotland and it’s politicians and giving us their views on how Scotland will thrive with Independence and how welcome Scotland will be in the EU

      And all coinciding nicely with the FMs announcement for Independence……What? who thought she was visiting places and talking to people just for fun, why do you think the Yoons go crazy every time the FM goes anywhere, because they know what she’s doing, she’s showing Scotland off, she’s selling the very idea of Scotland the country, she’s proving to the world the SNP are the good guys, so much so she’s even now been offered an Ambassador position with the UN, and the opposition can see it and know we’re winning and it makes them


      There’s no need to be in a desperate hurry, she’s on the case and she has 100% no intention of losing

      If FM Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t deliver then folk are entitled to moan, until then back her up

      The English do it with their duff politicians let’s in Scotland back up our our good ones

    390. Colin Alexander says:

      Independence would only happen when there’s a democratic event that gives independence a democratic mandate, such as an election or indyref result that established the will of the sovereign people is independence.

      But the people of Scotland don’t become sovereign by declaring independence. They are already sovereign.

      The sovereign people of Scotland already voted for a devolution settlement and voted to remain part of a Union that promised EU membership and maximum self-rule for Scotland as part of the Union. The UK state has reneged on those promises.

      To add insult to injury, it has ripped up the devolution agreement by reserving ( in advance) powers that are devolved (currently to the EU).

      The UK state, by EVEL, has made Scots MPs in the Commons second class MPs. How can that be acceptable in a UK Parliament where all MPs are supposed to be equal, unless they are colonialists who regard Scotland as a colony?

      At least some Unionists have the decency to squirm in embarrassment at defending a Union where EVEL exists and a democratically elected Scottish Parliament, elected to represent the sovereign people of Scotland can be overruled by the unelected House of Lords.

      The people of Scotland are sovereign. Whether independent or not, we should exercise that sovereignty by sacking the House of Lords completely from Scottish / UK affairs and declaring Holyrood the supreme parliament for Scotland.

      Take back control for our nation.

      We, the sovereign people, can then devolve to WM whatever powers we decide to allow WM MPs to administer on our behalf. That might be some or none.

      Of course, to those who want this current Union, where those unelected by the people of Scotland control Scotland, a Union where Scotland has democratic control of her own affairs, would be unacceptable. Such people are not Unionists. They are Colonialists.

    391. defo says:

      Scot Finlayson /Call me Dave

      I believe the term is ‘collateral damage’.
      She stuck her head above the parapet.
      Shameful treatment by our legal system.

    392. Dr Jim says:

      People are entitled to vote for whomever they want or hope to win an election, I’m a SNP voter and nobody not anybody ever at any time in the SNP has advocated casting votes for an alternative party

      I prefer the SNP to win so my choice is always as my party suggests SNP x 2 every time

    393. geeo says:

      Coco says: “We, the sovereign people, can then devolve to WM whatever powers we decide to allow WM MPs to administer on our behalf. That might be some or none”.

      Good grief !!


      We, the legally Sovereign people of Scotland, can just choose independence and take control of EVERYTHING.

      You were actually doing quite well there to, before it all went wrong.

    394. robbo says:

      Dr Jim says:
      7 February, 2019 at 10:15 pm
      People are entitled to vote for whomever they want or hope to win an election, I’m a SNP voter and nobody not anybody ever at any time in the SNP has advocated casting votes for an alternative party

      I prefer the SNP to win so my choice is always as my party suggests SNP x 2 every time

      Yup ,me too Jim . I do not understand all this other gumff

    395. stewartb says:

      Alan Mackintosh @ 7:48 pm

      You asked: “.. , does anyone have a link to the definition of the UK, I think it was the UN one, but cant find it now.”

      I too have read mention of a UN document in the past but I’ve never seen a source document. Perhaps this alternative will help you.

      It’s from The Commonwealth web site ( ) – presumably coming with the endorsement of the Head of The Commonwealth!

      “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (UK) consists of a group of islands off the western coast of Europe. The largest, Great Britain, comprises three countries: England, Scotland and Wales. Ireland, to the west, consists of the UK’s province of Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. There are several offshore islands and island groups, the largest lying off Scotland.

      The UK is a union of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The Crown dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are largely self-governing with the UK responsible for their defence and international relations and are not part of the United Kingdom.”

      Interesting that even in two short paragraphs we shift from a Union with three ‘countries’ to one with four!

      And this source goes on (at ):

      “Acts of Union integrated England with Wales (1536–42), with Scotland (1707) and with Ireland (1801). In 1921 southern Ireland became the Irish Free State (later Republic of Ireland). The constitution is made up of common law, statute law and conventions, and may be changed by a simple act of parliament without any special procedure or majority.”

      (I would have thought that in 1707 there were enabling Acts but that it was the signing of the Treaty of Union that legally was the integrating action.)

    396. Jimmy the Pict says:

      I see that the subject of tactical voting in the Scottish elections has come up again, worth reading is the following on Scot Goes Pop

    397. geeo says:

      Well said Dr Jim 10.15pm

      If we win another miracle majority**, it will be by winning an outright 65/73 constituency seats, in my opinion.

      **In a hypothetical situation of course, as 2021 HE will be non existant (if we are indy).

    398. ronnie anderson says:

      call me dave what are u & Scott on about re foodbanks

    399. schrodingers cat says:


      let me make this simple for you

      1. in 2016, no one voted for solidarity or rise. they won no seats. no one will vote for them the next time either

      2. in 2016 the indy supporters had a modicom of success getting greens elected on the list. simce then, trust in the greens has collapsed, yessers will not vote for them in the next he.

      3.winning an overall majority purely on constituency seats is a very difficult thing for the snp to do, and even if they do, it will leave the unionists free range to hoover up all the list seats.

      4,I am NOT advocating a vote green on the list, I am simply pointing out that if yessers like you and I could find someone who we trusted, we could replace at least the greens and potentially become the main opposition in holyrood.

      btw, you clearly dont understand the de hondt system at holyrood, your example illustrates this quite clearly

    400. Sinky says:

      Bbc Question time from Motherwell four Brit Nats and Fiona Hyslop. BBC representation of Scotland today

    401. crazycat says:

      @ stewartb at 10.21

      See also my post at 9.31.

      I’ve tried numerous google searches, and never been able to find an official UN document.

    402. call me dave says:

      @ronnie anderson

      It’s further up the thread (BBC) but here it is archived:

    403. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Charges have been dropped against Julie Webster of maryhill foodbank.

    404. Sarah says:

      O/T but important for Grousebeater: I have made a modest donation today to his defamation fundraiser on GoFundMe under

      Target is £25,000 and after 12 days it has reached £2130.

      To read the story go to Grouse Beater’s blog in November 2018. Several Wingers signed a letter of support quoted there.

    405. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Charges have been dropped against Julie Webster of maryhill foodbank.

    406. Thepnr says:

      Here’s the link.

    407. schrodingers cat says:

      george wood says:

      They only needed 2 more seats from the list.

      fine margins, too fine for me.
      btw had everyone in fife mid scotland region who voted green voted snp (1 green msp elected out of 7) then the unionist would have won all 7

      once again, i repeat, i am not advocating voting green on the list. i am merely pointing out that if we had candidates on the list who we trusted, eg stu, campbell, wgd, james kelly etc, then tactical voting would be worth it

    408. ronnie anderson says:

      call me dave ok I’ve caught up on the link five fucking times I was cited in Julies case latest being this Monday only 2 of us witnesses appeared at court , hours of our time wasted .

      Hoping Julie & Family can now get on with her life.

    409. schrodingers cat says:

      Jimmy the Pict says:

      I see that the subject of tactical voting in the Scottish elections has come up again, worth reading is the following on Scot Goes Pop
      actually it isnt

      this was his advice before the last he,

      1 list msp for the snp was elected in 7 of the 9 regions. 850k snp votes elected 1 snp list msp

      that in itself is the one statistic that proves kelly is talking mince

      he doesnt like the greens, fair enough, but numbers are numbers

    410. schrodingers cat says:

      bbc qt

    411. schrodingers cat says:

      spot yoon plant in audience

    412. schrodingers cat says:

      lots of yoons clapping forsyth

    413. Legerwood says:

      Colin Alexander @ 9.14 PM

      Where in my post did I say anything about the SG stopping Brexit?

      My post @ 8.27 pm, in reply to Daisy Walker @ 3.04 pm, was about the SG warning of the dangers of Brexit. I included a quote from Daisy’s post so that no one would be in any doubt about which aspect of Daisy’s post was the target of my reply. Seems you missed that bit.

      At no point did I say indyref 2 would stop Brexit. Indyref 2 will come about as a result of Brexit. It is likely to mean that Scotland is out of the EU for a short time but in the event of a yes vote Scotland reapplied and is quickly admitted in its own right. This would also have been the case after indyref2.

      As to Scotland’s sovereignty. I thought it was the people of Scotland who were ‘legally sovereign’. If so then they have stated the following using the processes available to them via referendums and elections:
      1. Stay in the UK – indyref1 – thus they elect MPs to Westminster and in the last 2 GE the majority of those MPs have been SNP.
      2. They wish the SNP to form the Scottish Government who had in their manifesto the commitment to an indyref if there was a material change.
      3. They wish to stay in the EU

      These may appear to be contradictory and with respect to points 1 and 3, mutually exclusive. But they are not and the SG have cleverly negotiated a path that honours the wishes of the ‘legally sovereign people’ of Scotland.

      Brexit will go ahead and so will indyref2. The latter will be far more successful than the former.

    414. Sinky says:

      Fiona Bruce unhappy that Scots Indy mentioned in Motherwell

    415. Sinky says:

      Bbc have balanced the program audience with 50 50 on Brexit. Not representative of Scotland

    416. Thepnr says:

      It’s him again on QT LOL

    417. schrodingers cat says:

      orange jacket manny, front row, got in again

    418. scunner says:

      they’re trolling us

    419. scunner says:

      “million pounds a barrel” FFS

    420. auld highlander says:

      Was that noisy anti snp one in the red jacket in the front row a deliberate plant?

    421. geeo says:

      Switched off as soon as orange jacket regular zoomer appeared.

      Forsyth there to troll, English MP and no right of reply to staged bawbag rants.

      As scunner says, trolling us.

      BBC Scum.

    422. schrodingers cat says:

      another plant in the audience

    423. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I see dear old Mason Boyne was front and centre in the QT audience again.

      A cross-section of Scottish views – Aye Right!!

    424. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Orange jaikit there again?



    425. schrodingers cat says:

      he gets another better togeher soundbite

    426. stewartb says:

      O/T returning to the Workplace Parking Levy and the prior views of other Tories in Westminster that those in Holyrood perhaps ought to bear in mind.

      Source: Hansard from 2011( )

      This is a statement from Justine Greening, Tory Secretary of State for Transport on the results of her Department’s process to remove ‘red tape’ and otherwise unwanted secondary regulation concerning road transport issues. Greening notes: “Some 376 of these are judged still to be live, and of these I propose to scrap, merge, simplify, amend or improve 142—well over a third.”

      But it’s notable in all her self-congratulation about a clean-up job well done that among the things that are specifically NOT scrapped is the legacy of the previous Labour Government’s to give Local Authorities the power to introduce a Workplace Parking Levy.

      Greening’s statement confirms its continuation but notes: “Local authorities will now have to ensure business interests are properly considered as part of any future proposed workplace parking levy scheme. They must show they have properly and effectively consulted local businesses, have addressed any proper concerns raised and secured support from the local business community.”

      So the Tories looked at this delegated power to LAs and chose NOT to withdraw it: just wanted (sensible) local consultation.

      And then there is this statement of principle on the same issue from Philip Hammond as Secretary of State for Transport on 26 October, 2010 ( ):

      “I know that the Nottingham tramway is not universally popular and that the workplace parking levy is even less so. However, if we are serious about a localism agenda, we will find that sometimes, perhaps often, the things that elected local authorities choose to do on behalf of local residents are not always in accordance with our own preferences and priorities. That is in the nature of localism, and I embrace it.”

    427. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      trying to find the post the Rev had previously. I mean that is un-fuckin-believeable that he is on again.

      Well, naw I guess it isn’t since they don’t care now. It is blatant.

    428. cynicalHighlander says:

      schrodingers cat

      That was the argument perpetuated by Rise and the the Greens back in 2016 and it is bollocks on stilts. The only way the SNP can win a majority is SNP x 2.

      Your prefered option is why we have a staunchley pro unionist as Presiding Officer and a minority SNP government detrimental to the indy movement. The greens are oportunists look at us we have power Ross Greer (a fascist at heart) is the epitome of the the Green thinking.

    429. scunner says:

      Swapping Westminster for Brussels again

      yoon bingo!

    430. schrodingers cat says:

      total demolition of snp

    431. Thepnr says:

      See even if you are entitled to a free licence you should stop watching the BBC. Dump the licence as they are most certainly taking a massive dump on YOU.

      This is absolutely awful, BALANCE hahahahah, What a fucking joke. This has to be a turning point, never before has it been this blatant. Totally disgusting.

      I can only guess THEY are shitting themselves. DON’T pay for their propaganda, dump it tomorrow.

    432. Socrates MacSporran says:

      By jings Mentorn have trawled through the ludges of Lanarkshire to dig up the loonie yoonies for the QT audience.

    433. Petra says:

      QT. Oh FGS I’m turning it off!!!! Can’t bear to watch it anymore.

      First up Forsyth drags Indyref1 into the Brexit issue in the first few minutes of the programme … “It was as divisive as Brexit. SNP Baad.”

      Then we’ve got a guy in the audience saying that the SNP had no deal re. Indyref1, no currency, no oil, you can buy oil now for £10 a barrel at the Barras and so on. Looks as though he had his “statement” well prepared and would be worth checking out. REALLY vehement and goes on and on. Fiona Hyslop tries to answer him. Gets half a dozen words out of her mouth and Fiona Bruce shuts her up by taking another question. Four against one again plus some model (or other) who doesn’t have a clue. I’ll watch this tomorrow and will be in touch with the BBC. I hope others do likewise. Totally scunnered with the whole kit and caboodle.

    434. Stravaiger says:

      QT balanced audience my sharny arse! Is [i] everyone [/i] in Motherwell a British Nationalist?

      And as for the plant in the orange jacket…

    435. Sinky says:

      Fiona Hyslop failed to point out that public services are in a far better state than in England or Wales.

    436. Clootie says:

      Why do the SNP go on this programme (QT). They know it is rigged. They know it will be a pile on. They know the chair will allow the mauling.

      This is designed to make the wavering NO voters stay in place. Turning up to be assaulted with fear stories does more harm than boycotting it.

      Please stop playing to their rules. The Americans learned that in their War of Independence- trading volley fire with the experts, on ground they selected, at a time they picked doesn’t get you a win

    437. Col says:

      WTF? Made the mistake of watching question time tonight. I usually don’t bother because I know how terrible it is. The show really is a joke. A total set up on Fiona Hyslop who I have to say is not the best on these shows anyway.
      I have to say the format really does nothing to inform the viewer on anything factual at all. So many lies gone unchallenged already and there’s 20 minutes to go. Like I’ve said before, the BBC is enemy number one and if we don’t get 10000 people demonstrating outside Pacific Quay then they really will continue to poke indy support right in the eye over and over again.

    438. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 11.13
      You should also take a look for a clip of Michael Forsyth warning in the Lords not to hold the EU referendum because if the UK vote out Scotland will Go…
      The man who is now sitting in Motherwell defending Brexit.

    439. geeo says:

      Top pic 2016

      Bottom pic tonight.

      BBC invite for sure 100%.

    440. auld highlander says:

      Too many over confident articulate plants in that rigged road show.

    441. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      For the first time ever, I’m posting a comment without reading 100% of the previous comments here.

      I have Question Time on. The comments from the audience are so out of touch with what I am finding talking to workmates that I had to give up watching.

      The propaganda is SO obvious – it’s like they don’t care any more.

      We gotta get out of this place…

    442. winifred mccartney says:

      The usual one against 4 you can count FB as a unionist as well. Can’t stand it any more the snp should stop playing by bbc rules – totally agree with above comment. Let the unionists have the programme to themselves and argue among themselves, that’s all its good for. The bbc is getting away with murder, impartial ha ha ha.

    443. Thepnr says:

      Maybe somewhere between 150 and 250 members of the public who apply to be audience members are accepted.

      Of course I’ve no way of knowing how many might apply but have to suspect it is a great many more than those who finally get a place.

      What is amazing then is that the same guy gets not just a place in the audience 3 times in the last fey years that it has been in Scotland but that he has asked a question every one of those times.

      How many questions per program? Say 15 maybe 20 which is pushing it. It’s so obvious that there is an agenda here, I think they might have went too far with this, this is a story as the bias in the chossing of the audience and the selection of the questions is so obvious.

      I’m calling an own goal by the BBC here and another nail in their coffin as the mouthpiece of Westminster.

    444. mike cassidy says:

      Cant believe anybody still gets wound up over BBC Gammon Time.

    445. jezza says:

      QT audience

      80% Unionist

      20%. Pro Indy

      That was an embarrassment.

      Disgraceful BBC.

    446. auld highlander says:

      Goood spot Geo, you can almost feel the hatred from the plants.

    447. Shug says:

      Is there scope for the snp to just boycott the BBC
      The audience is such a clear set up and full of plants it is a joke

    448. Shug says:

      Between Q time and call Kaye the bbc is finished

    449. Mountain shadow says:

      That QT audience is clearly not representative of Scotland but by God, Hyslop has been useless. Even Rifkind jnr was giving better arguments for independence than she has.

    450. Training Day says:

      QT: up against a history suffusing the same programme over the years tonight’s edition is so openly rigged, so overtly biased, so blatantly propagandist you can actually smell the colonialist fear. It reeks of it. It sweats from their pores. They know this is the endgame, one way or another, and they are going for it.

      And we must be delivered from this special place in hell one way or another.

    451. ronnie anderson says:

      Its been long reputed that U can get everything from ah neddle tae an anchor doon the Barra’s but Barrels of Oil at 50p NEVA & that clowns to young to know when Oil was selt doon the Barra’s the Indian at the top corner of Gibson St selt Snake Oil fur corns .

    452. Liz g says:

      Petra @ 11.20
      Aw, don’t get mad Petra…. Listen!!
      We know the BBC is beyond repair.
      Listen for the arguments that the British Nationalists are likely to use..
      And take heart …. They’ve nothing…

    453. jezza says:

      Fiona Hislop is always 10 minutes late with her answers.

      We need someone on there who is as sharp as a pin and armed with all the relevant information so they can give a clear and concise answer.

      Hislop stutters and stammers her way through every answer.

      Why was she chosen for such a high profile debate.

    454. geeo says:


      You answered your own question.

      By appearing on these farcical hate fests, Scottish people get to see Bullying of the elected Scottish Government politicians, (the political and very popular choice of the people in Scotland) the visceral hatred against Scotland and Scots, the stupendous bias of the BBC.

      If you are a Soft No voting Scot who is considering voting Yes due to brexit/lies of 2014 and treatment of Scotland since, and have been skeptical of your Yes backing pals/relatives etc stories about the stuff mentioned above, how would you view events on Live TV tonight ?

      And THAT is why our SNP politicians put themselves in these situations.

      I would bet not one Scot changes from Yes to No after watching that, but happily bet there are plenty of No’s and not sure’s, just moved to Yes.

    455. Thepnr says:

      Some whizkid with video skills needs to put together the three appearances of that orange jersey character on QT tonight.

      Reports on the Revs twitter that he is a former UKIP candidate in Scotland. This nails BBC bias, no escape for them.

    456. geeo says:

      Fiona is not there to be pin sharp/convince anyone of anyone.

      She, like all other SNP / YES appearances on such set up shows, is to draw the hate and fury against the SNP/Scotland and Scots.

      Fiona could have sat there and not spoke and 54 minutes of that show would STILL have been anti indy/SNP hate fuelled ranting.

      More people will vote Yes after that , that works for me.


    457. Wee Alex says:

      Gave up watching QT years ago but wanted tossee hoe Fiona Bruce handled it. It’s like the Sky paper review, obviously biased and ill informed so call experts.

      It’s a sham, very few TVpeople watch it so I can’t get too bothered about it. Ms, Hysop did OK but she went onto programme knowing what to expect and can’t take much from it.

      Brexiteers including Corbyn don’t know, what they want, the public remains in the dark. What did anyone leaf from the debate.

      Nothing gained, nothing lost from tonight.

    458. Hamish100 says:

      donalda of the bbc will be a Dame within 5 years as a thankyou pay off for QT

      BIAS at it’s worse.

    459. Mark Fletcher says:

      Fiona Hyslop was absolutely fine. Kept her cool and let the idiots rant on. She is pleasantly normal – unlike some of the plants in the audience. When propaganda is so obvious, it becomes counter-productive.

    460. scunner says:

      ommmmmmm ommmmmmmm
      deep breaths. deep breaths.

      I made it though what has to be the worst QT I’ve ever witnessed.
      I kept hoping for a yellow jacket lady to save the day but no. Petered out like a damp squib.

    461. HandandShrimp says:

      Didn’t watch QT as it is a foregone outcome that it would be

      1) Pish

      2) Biased

      The fact that the Orange flutist was on yet again shows the BBC don’t even care if they appear biased. One might even consider it deliberate provocation.

      Sod the BBC … Netflix is the only TV anyone needs.

    462. Robert Peffers says:

      @Valerie says: 7 February, 2019 at 4:39 pm:

      … I just wonder how much of a case we have.”

      We have an unshakeable case and it is actually quite clear.

      1 – The United Kingdom was constituted by the Treaty of Union. There is only one Treaty of Union.

      2 – The Acts of Union were both created by the two, still independent kingdoms – then both put themselves into recession. Thus both Acts of Union belonged to dead parliaments. The Kingdom of England parliament is recorded as being permanently in recess. The Kingdom of Scotland is recorded as prorogued. It could thus be reconvened.

      3 – Winnie Ewing did not open a new parliament of Scotland she reconvened the old one.

      4 – There are only two kingdoms signatory to the Treaty of Union and in order to legally sign such a treaty both must ne equally sovereign and two kingdoms in a legal union form a bipartite united kingdom named, would you believe, The United Kingdom.

      They do not, especially as one of those kingdoms is composed of three countries, form a unified country much less one composed of four countries.

      They do not even form a unified kingdom for, being equally sovereign partners, they form an equally sovereign partnership as a two partner kingdom. Not a four partner country with a master and three dominion countries.

      Last of all there has been no legal country or kingdom of England parliament since day one, (1 May 1707), of the United Kingdom. Yet Westminster acts as the de facto parliament of England, (EVEL), while still claiming to be the Parliament of the bipartite United Kingdom.

      And all that without the ample proof that the Treaty of Union was illegally forced upon Scotland. The English crown/parliament engineered the English Navigation Acts – They also pledged to 50% finance the Darien Scheme only to pull out after the Scots had purchased ships and stores and engaged crews. Then the crown ordered the army and Royal Navy NOT to help the Scots expeditioners.

      Then there was the blackmail, coercion and bribery of parliamentarian /landpowners that England had caused to be bankrupted. Not to mention the English undercover agents of William Patterson and Daniel Defoe – Both in the employ of Sir Robert Harley the English Spymaster.

      These things are all documented and proven. Everything about this damned union is a lie. Trouble is that until recent events the World at large was prepared to turn a blind eye and the majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland were tolerating the arrangement and by the time the very rich had made their pile the main body of the electorate were well and truly brainwashed.

      Never forget that Glasgow became the second city of the British Empire but with the rise of, “The Red Clydesiders”, The Establishment decided that Scotland was a threat to London rule and the decision was taken to clip Scotland’s Wings. Glasgow was too big for its boots.

      So began the break up of Glasgow. The one square mile that provided the World’s Steam locomotives and the shipbuilding on the Clyde had to be stopped. Note that when Diesel locomotives began they were not built in Glasgow and the Gorbals became a slum and the most deprived area of Europe.

      Areas were torn down and the populations moved all over Britain and other areas of Scotland. Remember, “Corby”?

      The Northamptonshire town of Corby, more than 200 miles south of the Scottish border, where the Glasgow-based Stewarts & Lloyds constructed one of the UK’s largest steelworks in the 1930s.

      The downturn in the Clyde Valley’s steel industry led to a stampede of Scots that just kept coming to Corby. In 1961, a third of Corby’s population had been born in Scotland,(according to the Census).

      But there were New Towns built all over Scotland like Glenrothes with a supposed, “Super Coal mine”. Yet every miner knew that the mine was a white Elephant for the Government had invested in gigantic coal cutting units from the USA. These were designed for operation in thick, straight coal seams and such coal seams just do not exist in Scotland due to the Scottish geology. The seams are broken and displaced all over the place. The machines were useless and the super-pit never produced coal. They claimed it was abandoned because of flooding.

      However, Glenrothes was only one of many Glasgow overspills and hardly any areas in Scotland did not see an influx of Glasgow’s population. London was safe and Scotland suffers still. Not to mention the closures of just about every MOD establishment including Rosyth Dockyard, Crombie Arms depot and Port Edger on the River Forth. With all the support areas like the Naval Stores establishments at Lathalmond to mention just a few.

      That’s just the tip of the iceberg for many other things were cut back too. Whatever happened to the several Scottish stockmarkets? Edinburgh used to be one of the World’s leading Insurance and pensions company cities. But then, “They don’t want you to know all that”.

    463. ben madigan says:

      Couldn’t watch QT – it certainly didn’t represent the Scotland I know

    464. chicmac says:

      North Lanarkshire

      Over 51% Yes in the independence referendum.

      1.5% ‘Other British’ designation in the census.

      Who’d have thunk that based on the QT audience tonight?

    465. robbo says:

      Pure ragin man. Glad i don’t go tae them things cos i wid be ejected . Bused in pure yoons fae Larkhall straight fae lodge meeting- wtf

    466. ronnie anderson says:

      Collusion before the programme even starts . Share that in all Social Media pages

    467. Meg merrilees says:

      Am gutted!

      Seems I’ve missed the man in the orange ( red) jacket on QT tonight – again!

      Was only joking when I wondered a few days ago if he would be on – can’t believe that the BBC has been SO stupid. Was it Dundee the last time he appeared.

      Seems he must have moved to Motherwell now – or has he alway been living in Ayrshire all along.

      The only question to ask on QT is why is this programme still allowed to be made.

      We all know the answer – because it is a useful tool for propaganda.

    468. Liz g says:

      Aw imagine that…. It’s that there’s Bars in the House of Commons that’s behind sexual assault happening there??
      Who knew!
      EH NAW…. Drink is nay excuse fur it.
      Scotland has had an unacceptable relationship with alcohol for some time…. But we all know that it didn’t turn everyone into Gropers who couldn’t help themselves.
      Whit a deflection… Let’s talk about the availability of alcohol to Adults not the Sexual Assault.
      Whits next, the young victims were inappropriately dressed?

    469. chicmac says:

      Saving grace is QT is watched by less than 300,000 folk in Scotland and most of them are anoraks from either side which won’t be swayed anyway.

    470. boris says:

      Cameron played a partisan game certain to inflame Scottish nationalism with an English betrayal only hours after the vote, critically damaging the very Union he claimed to champion, in the interests of a short-term electoral gain. The only question I’ve never quite been able to settle in my head is whether when he made his little play to English nationalism he was stupid enough not to see what this would do in Scotland, arrogant enough to assume that it didn’t matter now the referendum was over, or insincere enough in his professed concern for the Union (which is part of his party’s name) that he didn’t actually care as long as it boosted his chances of re-election. David Cameron, fool or knave? It seems a hard choice (though there is an obvious answer). Cameron blundered hugely: having signed a vow, with other Unionist party leaders, promising Scotland substantially extended devolution then, only one day after the result, turning around and retrospectivy slapped conditions on it. Forsyth’s point was — Cameron took a giant public dump on a signed pledge just days old. A huge kick in the teeth to the “no”voters in Scotland. Not wise!!!!”

    471. Meg merrilees says:


      your FB link is not working – ‘page can’t be found’ or ‘perhaps you are not allowed to view this page’

    472. QT. Eunice was great and balanced. Fiona H could have been sharper but she was interrupted: Lord Forsyth was being a Tory Lord: Hugh was measured: Labour who? was all over the place.
      How do they think they can repeatedly plant the regulars?
      Remember, it’s an entertainment show, not a news based show.
      Fiona Bruce might have been on the Antiques Roadshow.

    473. Meg merrilees says:

      Motherwell resident on Radio 5 live now, who had been in QT audience tonight – saying that the audience was not representative of the Motherwell that she knows.
      Motherwell is a strong SNP community, this was not the people that she recognises. Thought there were lots of Tories in the audience tonight.
      Scotland voted 62% to Remain, SNP really looking after EU residents, this did not come across.

      Now R5 live playing the anti Independence ‘rant’ which I presume is the man in the ‘orange jacket’.

    474. dakk says:

      Ffs,that’s the best yet from the state broadcaster.

      So good in fact they will save me £12.83 a month henceforth.

      D/D cancelled as it should have been years ago.

      Fuck them to hell in a handcart.

    475. Lenny Hartley says:

      Stewartb read part of that document, gave up when it said that Gaelic has been spoken in Scotland since Roman Times, here’s me thinking that the Celts with their language whether be of the P or Q variety were indugenous to these Islands, off course the only historians worth their salt like the chap with the flowing locks and who hopefully will be off soon to New Zealand calls the people who built Maes Howe and Scara Brae “Proto Celts” as they dont want to admit that the Celts were the first Immigrants to these Islands after the last Ice Age. they also dont like acknowledging that the English are immigrants to these Islands. ( for the avoidance of doubt im not suggesting that the Scots are not immigrants , everybody is!)

    476. mike cassidy says:

      As a punishment for watching Gammon Time tonight

      I think you should be made to read the comments on this conservative site.

      The program anticipated through a Brexit lens coated with racism.

      Luvvly jubbly!

      I couldn’t bring myself to read on to see if the comments continue to the actual broadcast.

    477. Bob Mack says:

      seems the locals in Motherwell may not be so local after all.

      Fair amount of “bussing “going on I think.

      I do have one criticism though. I often feel that the SNP representatives are not educated to deal with hostility properly, especially the orange jacket type of Orange order unionist. Fiona could have been much more forceful in her assertions rather than be sidetracked by both Bruce and Forsyth, which happened all too regularly.

      Commanding a conversation is a special skill, and I’m afraid only a few like Nicola, McKay and Russell possess it.

      Some input required there.

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