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Counting down the minutes

Posted on August 21, 2018 by

Whenever Scottish Labour rouse themselve to try to rally their handful of remaining supporters by whipping up some fake moral outrage – on this occasion about the Scottish Government giving a grant to an arms manufacturer (helped as always by an obedient Scottish press, and on this occasion by a fairly extraordinary on-air meltdown from Good Morning Scotland interviewer Gillian Marles) – we tend to just sigh and set the stopwatch going to see how long it’ll take to backfire in a horribly messy explosion.

But this one was especially splattery.

Firstly, and despite the Sunday Mail and the Courier’s ridiculous “CASH FOR BOMBS SCANDAL” headlines, the Scottish Enterprise grant turned out to be specifically and explicitly not for bombs, but for projects to help the company diversify away from arms manufacture – something it had already pointed out more than a month earlier, in a quote it wearily repeated word-for-word yesterday.

Secondly, details of the supposedly “secret” meeting had in fact been published on the Scottish Government website months ago, wherein its purpose was described as “to understand the work you are doing with Scottish Enterprise to diversify the site into more non-defence related activities. Our emphasis.)

Thirdly, of course, it was the UK government which had sold the Paveway missiles that killed the Yemeni civilians (including 40 children) to Saudi Arabia, as just a small part of the hundreds of millions of pounds worth of weapons it sells the dictatorship every year, totalling close to £5bn since the Saudi war on Yemen began.

And finally, to everyone’s complete non-astonishment:

Imagine our shock and surprise, beloved readers, when it turned out that the Labour administration in Cardiff had recently given the suddenly-controversial arms firm more than THREE TIMES as much money as the Scottish Government had done, and for an entirely military venture rather than for peaceful diversification.

The Welsh Labour FM, in fact, turned out to be rather fond of meeting them:

Until the next time, let’s just raise the tiniest eyebrow and move on. Won’t be long.

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    1. 21 08 18 10:56

      Counting down the minutes | speymouth

    2. 06 02 19 06:57

      Labour’s Criticism of SNP ruined by Welsh Labour Government . | Newsfeed Cymru

    216 to “Counting down the minutes”

    1. Thepnr says:

      Another spectacular own goal by Labour in Scotland.

      All their media pals in the press and the BBC “led” up the garden path with Labour media releases once again.

      When will it even end? Ho Ho Ho!

    2. Iain says:

      Airborne Solutions HQ doesn’t sound sinister in the slightest..

    3. Holebender says:

      There’s no hypocrite like a Scottish Labour hypocrite.

    4. Welsh Sion says:

      “Only Labour will give Scotland Real Change”

      Aye, right.

      It’s good that the Internet has a long memory.

      https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-accepts-12m-in-donations-and-perks-from-defence-contractors-130428.html

      […]

      Other arms and defence companies linked to Labour include Raytheon Systems, who, according to Friends of the Earth, gave £30,000 to the Labour party in 1997, £15,000 for a pre-dinner drinks party at the Labour conference in 1998 and £12,500 for drinks at the London Hilton in 1997.

      The US arms manufacturer was awarded a £800m contract by the Ministry of Defence for their Astor battlefield radar spyplane system in 1999.

      […]

      PS For readers in Scotland, you may recognise a familiar name elsewhere in this piece. A certain Dr John Reid, spinster, late of this parish … 😉

    5. Macart says:

      “I want a kinder politics, a more caring society; don’t let them reduce you to believing in anything less,” and “Let’s get on with bringing values back into politics.” Jeremy Corbyn, 2015

      Talked a good game. Mind you, it’s not enough to talk the talk. You have to walk the walk.

      You know, I wanted to cut Mr Corbyn some slack when he first became leader of Labour. He talked a good game tbf. How and ever, EVERY time he has come to Scotland, it has been to talk down to the people. His party? Hopelessly lost to the practice of politics UK style and basically that means either misleading or misrepresenting.

      Much like our recent weekend day trippers. No contrition. No remorse. No apology for past decisions or actions which have proven catastrophic for the population. No attempt at olive branches offered to the population in general or the, not insubstantial, YES movement in particular. No hand held out to the SNP government to work through consensus in both parliaments.

      Just exactly the same adversarial, tribal horseshit that has brought us all to where we are today repeated ad nauseam. The same tired old SNP bad. Scottish parly has the pooowwwwwerrrrs to mitigate, but doesn’t do so, or enough, or badgers, or because… they’re not LABOUR. RIGHT!?!

      Weary of it and them, not necessarily in that order. Most folk are aware of the source of the problem and he is a willing part of it.

    6. HandandShrimp says:

      Labour and real change? It was Labour, Iraq, 45 minutes to doom, Dr Kelly etc., that switched me off as a Labour voter. They have blood on their hands in a way that the SNP are never likely to have. Hypocrites, frauds, liars and shysters are what Labour are…and possibly anti-Semites to boot.

      Marles demonstrated more emphatically than at any point in the recent past that the BBC are simply a state funded agency which has part of its remit to attack the SNP as they are an existential threat to the integrity of the UK. They are every bit as political as RT.

    7. Proud Cybernat says:

      And the diddies at Pravda Quay wonder why folks in Scotland, in ever greater numbers, are switching their Fake News channel off.

      Stop treating the public like idiots PQ. Just effing stop it. NOW!

    8. winifred McCartney says:

      You know the old saying how do you know when labour is lying and the answer ‘when their lips are moving’ does not just apply to tories but to labour as well. They have been doing it for so long they don’t know any other way – not got the memo yet that we are on to them and yon interthingy gives their game away.

      When will labour get the message – last person leaving the building put the lights out – can’t be long now.

    9. ClanDonald says:

      See all those labour types like Alistair Campbell and Andrew Adonis who whine about how mean and nasty and beastly the British press is? Your party is just as bad as any of them, you’re all up to your necks in fake-news, lies, spin and hypocrisy, we’re sick of the lot of you.

    10. Skip_NC says:

      The interviewer on GMS was extremely rude, but she raises a good point about publicizing the meeting. Here in the USA, where “corporate welfare” is seen as an essential part of government, this sort of thing would be trailed on all the morning news bulletins and an announcement would be carried live by at least one local station.

      Of course, if one raises a seemingly good point, it is normal and courteous to allow the other person to respond. I suppose it is too much to hope that someone, somewhere will allow SG to explain themselves without being rudely interrupted. Anyone listening to that segment critically might wonder if the interviewer was practicing Fox News techniques. In other words, what is the BBC trying to hide?

    11. Dr Jim says:

      *Scottish Labour* No such party exists and that right there should be enough to tell you if a political party can’t even tell you the truth about their name *UK Labour party* because they don’t want the words *British* or *UK* associated with themselves in their title then you can’t trust a word of what comes out of their mouths

      They are a fake party in a country (Scotland) they don’t want to represent they only want to own it, their *leader* Jeremy Corbyn can’t even bring himself to say the word Scotland because to him it doesn’t exist as a country and can’t be allowed to

    12. Giving Goose says:

      All political parties conduct manoeuvring for political advantage, it’s part of the multi party game and to be expected.

      However, and it’s a big “however” – in the case of the English Labour Party operating in Scotland “manoeuvring” has taken on an extremely unpleasant aspect.
      Labour’s purpose is “to get the SNP” at all costs, on behalf of the English Tory Party.

      Hence the method used is always extremely unpleasant.

      Unpleasantness breeds unpleasantness, by and on behalf of unpleasant people. Make no mistake, Labour are thoroughly unpleasant and to the core.

      They should be ashamed of themselves but that would require a grasp of morality that they, English Labour operating in Scotland, simply do not possess.

    13. TD says:

      Who is Roger (in the quote about the Welsh government’s involvement)? He is geographically challenged – he thinks Wales is in “North West UK”. If there is such a thing as “North West UK”, surely it would be the Western Isles or perhaps even the West Coast of Shetland. But it is most certainly not North Wales. I checked the map – Wales (all of it) is in the South of the UK.

      Of course, I suspect he meant the “North West of England with North Wales tagged on as an afterthought” but that wouldn’t roll off the tongue too well. I suspect Roger is a unionist – only they could make so many errors and reveal such ignorance of their own precious union in so few words.

    14. Bob Mack says:

      There is a word to describe media outlets deliberately conspiring with political parties to put forward a completely untrue or distorted version of the facts, knowing full well it is deception. I grieve for journalism, and for those journalists who have willingly bent to this manipulation of their integrity. The world over journalists are being killed for nothing more than pursuing the truth.

      Scotlands media is the exact opposite. Proven liars and deceivers ,almost to a man.

      They reek of hypocrisy and entitlement,without the skills to earn respect and trust from their audience, which is becoming less by the day. Soon they will have no one to listen to them but each other.Their time draws near.

    15. Bobp says:

      Ah liebor, the party that gave the contract to Atos to hammer the poorest and most vulnerable in society.Hoping that their Scottish plebs (sorry voters) will have the attention span of goldfish.

    16. Tinto Chiel says:

      An effortless piece of debunking, Stu. Think I can hear your weary sigh from here.

      If the Labour party were Sideshow Bob:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRq1Ksh-32g

    17. Ian Mackay says:

      For goodness sake keep Gillian Marles away from the Labour Party or the Conservative Party on this issue. Given her frustration meltdown in failing to lay a glove on the SNP’s Jamie Hepburn when he calmly answered about the diversification grant…

      … I would expect that Gillian would spontaneously combust when confronted by the hypocrisy of the Labour Party in giving Raytheon money for arms; or the moral ineptitude of the Conservatives in their role in helping kill children in Yemen.

      Then again, maybe it’s not about Raytheon for Gillian. Maybe it’s just an excuse to attack the SNP and the Scottish Government.

      Is this just protocol for the BBC?

      I think we should be told.

    18. Normski says:

      Then there’s today’s manufactured #FakeNews grievance. A double act from Labour’s Paul Sweeney and the Tax Payers’ Alliance – blaming the SNP for the cost of running the Glasgow Council official limo – even although almost all the excessive cost was run up under the previous Labour administration.
      https://planetradio.co.uk/clyde/local/news/glasgow-council-spend-provost-cars/

    19. Helpmaboab says:

      I like to visualise the ‘journalists’ of BBC ‘Scotland’ starting the working day with a Two Minutes Hate session.

      The assembled hacks crowd into Studio 1 and work themselves into a spittle-flecked, foul-mouthed frenzy as images of notorious separatists and their crimes are flashed onto a great screen…

      Gillian Marles clearly hadn’t yet calmed down when she conducted that travesty of an interview.

      “Have you? Have YOU!? HAAVE YOOOO!!!”

    20. tartanfever says:

      This story gets even more interesting in a wider context.

      After the BBC Scotland presenter meltdown yesterday, why has no-one mentioned that the Sir Roger Carr, chairman of BAE, the main weapons sellers to Saudi Arabia is also the Vice Chairman of the BBC Trust. Especially when the BBC has ignored many of the atrocities that have actually taken place over the last 4/5 years, as highlighted many times by Mark Curtis and Media Lens.

      Not only do BAE supply the weapons, they also supply the logistical support staff to run the Saudi airforce, along with RAF personnel.

      I would urge Indy supporters to have a gander at those two twitter accounts because the information they put out provides an excellent rebuttal not only to the unionist camp, but also the selective protestations of the likes of Bella Caledonia. To associate the Scottish Government to atrocities whilst ignoring the wider picture is dishonest, but to rebut the arguments properly requires a bit of reading from other sources.

      Jamie Hepburn could easily have brought up the BAE/BBC/BBC Trust connection yesterday and embarrassed the radio presenter.

    21. Mosstrooper says:

      There appears to be no depths the British Government and its running dogs the unionist parties in Scotland together with the British Bullshit Corporation will not sink. I find my outrage growing exponentially with every utterance the unionist cabal issue. They are not content with opposing our ideas or policies in a sensible direct manner. They have to lie, misconstrue and prevaricate on all and every matter. My pockets are not deep however I will continue to support Wings, the SNP and each movement towards an independent Scotland. Suas Caesar!.

    22. galamcennalath says:

      Is there anywhere else in Europe where unabashedly Fake News output comprises so much of their mainstream media, including the state broadcaster? Or where political parties not even in government are allowed to dominate the output of the state broadcaster?

      Still, I reckon we are at the tipping point where the propaganda has become so obvious, blatant, and incredulous that it’s damaging their own cause. Unintended consequences, and such.

    23. Fred says:

      Anent Corbyn in Scotland whipping up apathy, let’s not forget the likes of Kat Boyd who was smitten enough/silly enough, to vote for him!

    24. Kenny says:

      Why is North Wales part of “North West UK”? The whole of Wales is in the southern half of the UK. ?

    25. Artyhetty says:

      One word, BARSTEWARDS.

      It’s the Britnats’ continuing classic tactic, do ultra evil things, accuse your opponents of those ultra evil things, especially when you know they are countering those ultra evil things, that you yourself are doing. That’s Labour’s day job.

      Hope the SNP can manage to counter these Labour lies and fabrications to a wider audience, they certainly have a massive day job just trying to bloody well do that!

      O/T

      For any Wings people interested my op didn’t happen because I caught a virus, all geared up, about to go into surgery, nope, not when you have a high temperature, a bit depressing really. The ERI day surgery unit has great staff,doing a fantastic job and it’s very busy, but could have been designed so much better, in every way.

      Still it was all designed and built with Labour’s PFI scheme, so not surprised it’s not adequate to the needs of the city and outlying areas.

    26. Thepnr says:

      I imagine that Labour press releases are inscribed on large shiny polished turds, cranked straight out of the bullshit machine that is the Labour press office before being delivered directly to the plates of the hungry journalists.

      How much bullshit can be swallowed before becoming heartily sick of it? More than a couple of scoops a week obviously 🙁

    27. Ken500 says:

      Labour Party of illegal wars and mass invasion. Total hypocrites. The Tories could have been voted out in Westminster. If the so called opposition turned up and did not abstain. What a bunch of lying hypocrites. They really have no shame. The MSM are just the same. A disgrace.

    28. stu mac says:

      @HandandShrimp says:
      21 August, 2018 at 11:01 am
      Labour and real change? It was Labour, Iraq, 45 minutes to doom, Dr Kelly etc., that switched me off as a Labour voter.
      ============

      Same here though (I assume same with you) it was a kind of last straw kind of thing as they had been revealing themselves to be as right wing as the Tories before that.

      Thing is they maybe think these kind of tactics can bring former Labour voters back (it may work with a few with short memories) but they are the exact same kind of things that drove so many of us away from Labour in the first place.

    29. Port Jim says:

      I had my breakfast in secret this morning – there are no photos, and it has not been mentioned on Twitter. I can only apologise for this attempt at deception. Mea culpa. I am considering my position and will probably resign shortly.

    30. One tragedy of the Labour Party is that they think WE’RE the idiots.

    31. jdenham says:

      To put things into perspective: My son went into ‘war’ in Iraqu in 2003….weapons of mass destruction: imminent annihilation within 45 minutes….etc., etc., For what exactly? Had buried his elder brother, aged thirty, just two years previously, and so anxiety level was high. T.V. a constant in my life…rolling news, two hour’s sleep each night before checking the news timetable…and for what? I’m a ‘politician’ trust me? I’m a septuagenerian…come the revolution before I pop my clogs.

    32. Malcolm Meighan says:

      Terrific stuff Rev – thanks…….

    33. Fergus Green says:

      Does anyone else thing that this is a job for Keith Brown’s shiny new rebuttal service?

    34. jfngw says:

      Labour do seem particularly thick, do they ever check they are going to be exposed. We know the MSM will never reveal their duplicity, in fact they cheer it on, PQ is effectively their PR channel HQ. But it will be out on the internet within hours.

      It’s a bit of a surprise you would think, with campaign geniuses like James Kelly around how could thing go so wrong so quickly.

      Also amusing the comment from Jack McConnell when they were taking donations from Raytheon, ‘we will ban all foreign donations’. Is Raytheon HQ not in the USA.

    35. call me dave says:

      The MSM trotting out the same old tripe that Scotland voting in ‘Scottish’Labour MPs hold the key to a WM Labour government. 🙂

      Ah ken! (Stop laughing at the back)

      Only true twice in 50 years 1964 and 1974 as we were all told here on WOS a few years ago with graphs to prove it.

      PS:
      Liam Fox’s target for post-Brexit exports is wishful thinking

      https://archive.is/KhbE7

    36. Truth says:

      As ever, expertly done Stu. Thanks.

      I can’t help think we are missing a chance here. We should be referring to the BBC in pejorative terms.

      My recommendation would be to always refer to them as the “discredited BBC”. For that is what they are.

      If we all started referring to them as that everywhere we go on the internet, innocents would enquire.

      Think about it. It’s what they do and it no doubt works. Nearly 100 years as a propagandist, the discredited BBC knows what it’s doing.

    37. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Fred
      And lets not forget the wee shite Ross Greer and his his butting in on this. He misses no opportunity to attack the SNP.

    38. Gordon says:

      First class review. Wish the minister could have been more forthright in the radio interview.

    39. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Smashing piece from Marion Fellows in today’s National. The Labour Party in Scotland is committing suicide before our very eyes.

    40. Effijy says:

      This reveal entirely sums up the Labour Party and the U.K. media.

      Our problem lies in trying to present this damning and indesputable evidence
      To the fools who still consider themselves to be Labour supporters and the general
      Public still stupid enough to believe the lies and distortion pressed upon them daily.

      Rev, your research on these matters if beyond first class.
      Yet another Exocet missile down the lying throats of Labour

    41. Fairliered says:

      So Jeremy Corbyn comes up to Scotland for a short break and to help the SLAB SNPBad campaign. Jamie Hepburn tells the truth and refuses to accept BBC Shortbread’s SLAB fed nonsense. Having been shown up in front of both sets of bosses – BBC & the Labour Party – no wonder poor Gillian lost it. Promotion chances scuppered!

    42. I shall try to be constructive here, lest the Dead Tree Scroll Cut and Paste Hacks and Rory Bremner accuse me of being a foul mouthed Cybernat.
      Fuck off back to Islington, Corbyn, and don’t bother coming back.
      Stu, get security.

    43. Andy-B says:

      Fantastic find Rev, on Welsh Labour, it just clearly demonstrates the sheer hypocrisy of Labour and their lackey press buddies.

    44. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      Labour do seem particularly thick

      They certainly work hard to give that impression!

      If Scotland had a proper media doing its job, these awful BritNat politicians would be shredded before they were even elected.

      There’s good advice for journalists …. if one person says it’s raining and one says it’s dry, then the job of a journalist is not to report both view points, their job is to look out of the window and find who’s lying.

      In Scotland we have a situation where if Labour says it’s raining, then journalists report it’s raining even when they know it’s a sunny scorcher outside!

    45. drawdeaddave says:

      The thing is, as popular as your site is Rev, & as much as we rule social media, we are only circulating the facts among ourselves. Sure it’s great to be armed with the facts, but they (unionists) even with a much reduced circulation these days are still getting their spin & lies to a much bigger audience via newspapers, radio & TV, if we can solve this conundrum then a free independent Scotland is in the bag… BTW seen a tweet saying Raytheon donated to Labour in Scotland, any conformation of this… ?

    46. Proud Cybernat says:

      “… if we can solve this conundrum then a free independent Scotland is in the bag…”

      Buy yer gran a tablet for Christmas. Put a link to WoS on the front screen. Sorted.

    47. Shug says:

      BBC and fake news seem to always go together
      Same vein as thw chap Small inthe scotsman the otherday there
      Their lies just semm to be getting bigger

    48. r.esquierdo says:

      Once again the Labour party are spouting Tollie

    49. Fred says:

      @ Dave, quite right about Greer being a wee shite, Andy Wightman gets a bit of positive feedback & the wee shite had to think of something quick in case he’s overlooked. Wightman deffo in the wrong party anyhow!

    50. Iain mhor says:

      @Tartanfever 11:36am
      Roger Varr was indeed Vice-Chairman of the BBC Trust but the Trust was dissolved last year and its regulatory role transferred to OFCOM. So he only had a couple of years of his 4 year tenure.

    51. Thepnr says:

      How much longer can this one sided fight be allowed to continue before the Ref steps in and prevents further punishment?

      Almost every day the discredited media are humiliated by Wings and their collusion with the British Nationalist parties in Scotland exposed.

      A constant diet of SNP Bad propaganda bullshit fills the pages of the papers and screams at you from your TV and radio. No wonder then that people in Scotland say they are sick of “Fake News” the media are full of it every day.

      Yet still they are making no inroads into reducing support for Independence.

      Give it up, we’re on to you and you just get more embarrassing.

    52. Robert Louis says:

      Scottish so-called ‘journalists’, you are a total freaking joke. A total incompetent, lazy, can’t check the simplest of things, joke.

      The BBC on the other hand is merely carrying out its role as Westminster’s propagandist mouthpiece against Scotland, the Scottish people, their democratically elected Scottish Government and First Minister. Everybody knows the BBC are a bunch of paid liars when it comes to Scotland – and especially the SNP.

      Honestly, I do not know which is worse, the lazy incompetence of Scottish so-called’ journalists’, or the lazy incompetent lying by the British Labour party’s Scottish branch office.

      Where do I find out the truth? not in ‘The Times, Not in ‘The Herald, not in the laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’, not in the ‘independent’, not in the daily record, not in ‘The Guardian’, definitely NOT on the BBC (Quell surprise!). No, where I find out the truth is right here on this website, Wings over Scotland.

      What an utter joke the mainstream media in Scotland has become. Not one one of them worthy of the name ‘journalist’.

    53. Robert Peffers says:

      @Skip_NC says: 21 August, 2018 at 11:14 am:

      ” … The interviewer on GMS was extremely rude, but she raises a good point about publicizing the meeting.”

      Well actually she does not, Skip_NC. The reports of all Scottish Government meetings is published on the Holyrood Parliament’s website. The problem, as always, is the Scottish MSM publish, unquestioned, press releases by the unionist parties and almost totally ignore press releases by the SG/SNP.

      Now be aware this Holyrood website is not, per se, an SNP website but is run by the Parliament’s Civil Service. Mind you I couldn’t tell you if these are Westminster or Holyrood Civil Servants because both operate at Holyrood.

      You may remember the Indyref1 incident when the Head of the Westminster Civil Service in Scotland was accused, (by his England colleagues), of, “Going Native”. This, of course was rubbish because his official remit was to serve Alex Salmond who was then the Scottish FM.

      So I assume the Westminster Civil Servants have nothing to do with the parliament’s day to day running being really there to insure the Scots stick to the Devolution Settlement rules.

    54. Dr Jim says:

      It’s coming up to September so it’ll soon be time for the demise and fall and the honeymoon’s over for the SNP stories again, Ooh or the Sturgeon’s dilemma tales, I like those ones

      Gaes a prediction Stu c’mon gaes a prediction

    55. Macart says:

      Hopefully the hard of thinking policy wonks who read this site (and we know you do) will take a hint. Your obvious and insulting bullshit is driving people away from your parties. Mainly in disgust and anger it has to be said. Or do you think there’s some other reason you’ve been out in the wilderness in Scotland for over a decade?

      I mean, you’ve had the run of the near totality of the media in like… forever. Yet you’re going backwards in popularity at a rate of knots. How can that be? How could having access to such saturation possibly be undermining trust in both your parties and the meeja?

      Could be because you keep repeating the same smear and projection tactics ad nauseam that bewildered and manipulated folk for generations. Y’know, in the hope that it will continue to work in an age where folks can check the veracity of your output for themselves in the time it takes to put on a kettle.

      Misrepresentation, hypocrisy and outright fibbery are not only easily uncovered these days, but the insult to peoples’ intelligence and the attempt to manipulate and influence their emotions won’t be forgiven in a hurry.

      Just so you know. (shrugs)

    56. galamcennalath says:

      OT The BritNats ain’t going to like the Netflix movie about Robert Bruce 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-G1BME8FKw

      It will be historically inaccurate, I have no doubt, but given their reaction to the first series of Outlander, they won’t like it anyway. Good.

    57. Capella says:

      Re the “secret” meeting. This was obviously a note sent, probably by a PA, confirming the meeting and saying “no comms” which is clearly PR shorthand for no photo ops.

      Former Business Minister Paul Wheelhouse has also come in for criticism after the MSP arranged a private meeting at the Glenrothes facility back in January and specifically requested “no comms (communications) activity” around the visit.
      In the wake of the reports, Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard said it was “deeply disturbing” an SNP minister met with an arms manufacturer and ordered civil servants not to take any photos or publicise the visit.

      All the relevant info, including SG response, is in the Craig Smith article of 19th August. All Gillian Marles had to do was read it.

      http://archive.fo/F76UG

      Perhaps Carwyn Jones is wishing he had done the same.

    58. ahundredthidiot says:

      They’ve completely lost the plot. That bus bombing made me as mad as hell. Now, this utterly ridiculous attempt to shift the focus of blame to the SNP.

      They are without shame.

      tick tock

    59. Bob Mack says:

      There may be occasions when you think we on Wings are only talking to ourselves in a vacuum. You would be quite wrong.
      The Rev will no doubt post his “visits” , which are going up with great regularity.

      We may not all post comments,but we do ,more importantly gather information which we use in daily discussion or debate.

      This causes curiosity among others who may want to look for themselves. They will find only truth and facts on this site which cannot be debunked by reasoned argument. Contributors may have a wide range of views on topics which stimulates mostly healthy debate.

      Of course we have False flag indy Unionists as well, but that just helps to reinforce the message that we are making inroads into their stance,and they become angry we are still going strong.

      This site is not shrinking but expanding daily. It is our message board and news bulletin. It is our truth,which others have yet to discover.

    60. louis.b.argyll says:

      Hillary Benn is a hawk.

      Says all you need to know about Labour.

    61. Highland Wifie says:

      Yawn.
      Wake me up when Scottish Labour don’t do a fake outrage story that backfires spectacularly in their faces.
      Johann Lamont, late of the branch office, on Shortbread this morning calling for the Scot Gov to ban mesh implants completely in Scotland after expired moratorium. After Scot Gov has made clear they do not have the power to impose a ban she’s still banging on about a ban.
      It’s a special kind of stupid they must dish out when you join Scottish Labour.

    62. Cactus says:

      Afternoon PC, an excellent idea…

      “Buy yer gran a tablet for Christmas. Put a link to WoS on the front screen. Sorted.”

      …to take it further forward, if ye ever take a chance and take a glance at the fancy ants of Britnat social media/MSM channels, ye could always have your say, then leave the following at the tail of each of your posts, like a footer like. 🙂

      *****
      “Wouldn’t you at least like to hear both sides of the story?”

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/
      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
      http://indyref2.scot/
      *****

      Then alternate with your three favourite indy sites.

      Repeat ad infinitum… the curious people will become curiouser and it would wind-up the die-hard Britnats no end hehe.

      Remember this one:
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/your-money-at-work/

      Counting down the minutes to Edinburgh (October ’18.)

      WOS.

    63. Graeme mcCormick says:

      Welsh Labour; the government which just keeps on giving.

      Can the labour NEC suspend them?

    64. Gary45% says:

      Problem with the Labour Party is, up until recently they and others got away with this garbage, because we did not have the internet. Now it is easy to simply click and source the facts from the net.
      They and the Establishment simply “Don’t Get It” never have, never will.
      Mibees that’s why the Establishment are trying to shut down parts of the net!!

    65. Geejay says:

      We need a hashtag “Only Labour can Short Change Scotland”

    66. hackalumpoff says:

      @ Cactus 21 August, 2018 at 2:11 pm

      Your best ever post on Wings, methinks.
      *****
      “Wouldn’t you at least like to hear both sides of the story?”

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/
      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
      http://indyref2.scot/
      *****

    67. fraser darling says:

      I wish our SNP MP’s and MSP’s would actively prepare in advance for this kind of stunt from the BBC. Not just how to bat it off but how to score a six/home run out of them. With the story “breaking” yesterday it was entirely predictable what the chat would be this morning. If only we had some super investigator who can tear these pieces to shreds. We need to be much more robust in our responses and to see these stunts by the BBC as huge opportunities to do exactly as Stu has done above. Unfortunately the folk who we desperately need to convince are more likely to be listening to the BBC than reading WoS.

    68. Dan Huil says:

      Labour in Scotland are truly repugnant. They get away with lying because the bbc and other britnat media allow them to.

      Thank god for the Rev and WoS.
      Give your licence fee money to pro-indy sites like WoS.

    69. Cactus says:

      Afternoon hackalumpoff ~

      Ah just did the linky bit, all credit to Rev Stu for the original words…

      “Wouldn’t you at least like to hear both sides of the story?”
      https://wingsoverscotland.com/your-money-at-work/

      Afternoon y’all.

    70. Meindevon says:

      I had a look at that old Wings link to the removal of the Wings adverts on the subway by Cactus. (Agree with hackalumpoff by the way Cactus more like this please)

      That was a great idea. It obviously riled them.

      Can you not try it again Rev? Didn’t they have other ads from Parties after yours were dumped? Or did I dream that?

    71. Dan Huil says:

      I see a 170 million-year-old dinosaur footprint has been discovered near Inverness.

      Gordonus Broonisaurus

    72. Sharney Dubs says:

      Another one bites the dust!
      Stu, keep on keeping on!

    73. Dr Jim says:

      The new Bruce movie looks really exciting and no doubt will be followed up by Interworlds of the *not historically accurate* brigade who are probably at this moment sharpening their pencils and tapping away on their laptops about how rubbish it all is and stupid comments on how us Scots are all blood and soil loonies just like when Braveheart came out and I find it characteristically predictable of the folk who feel the need do this because it shows each time they do how much they fear the power of Scotland

      These people never bang on about all the *British* War films made that were a million miles from being accurate or even truthful in their results because in their minds that’s the history they want and if it wasn’t they don’t want to hear it or they’ll shout at you
      in words that will sound a lot like shut up Scotland you won nothing because you’re rubbish and your history’s rubbish and your country’s rubbish so shut up ..a lot..silence…fingers in ears La La La La go away England are the worlds bestest in everything

      It’s only a film, calm down dears

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      I think Richard Leonard himself is a decent guy, but needs to take control of his part, the Scottish part, of the Labour party, and the imbecile elements in it.

    75. stu mac says:

      @Dr Jim

      The thing is I don’t want a Scottish version of the propaganda movies of old (though some were more than that and good movies) I want movies that tell the stories of Scotland as honestly as possible. Of course I realise in a 90-100 minute movie you have to condense and edit so a 100% “whole truth” isn’t possible but everything that’s shown as an even should be accurate as can be made within the film’s limitations. And more than that, the film should feel “true”, that is capture the essence of the story and times even if it’s impossible to show a real medieval Scottish world.

      IMHO Braveheart never felt “true” and had some unpleasant attitudes in it while Rob Roy, despite being mainly fiction actually captured some of the essence of the times and attitudes of the people then and there.

    76. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Macart @ 13:32,

      It’s hard to know what the thinking at NorthBritLab is. They can’t all be dumb clucks like Kelly. At times it seems as if they are impelled by their own desperation (in the full expectation that they will get the friendly backing of the media) to push the boat out in the hope that one dail it will actually sail.

      Like a footie side that’s a goal down and match end is looming, so they push everybody upfield despite the obvious risks.

      Other times I think it’s a deliberate “scorched earth” policy. They want to convince the TV-watching masses that “they’re all the same”, that the morass of problems big and small is too much to handle, and just give up trying to believe in anything better. Back to the “good old days” when the quack doctor could prosper off the patients’ misery he carefully allowed to persist.

    77. Archbishop of Dork says:

      So it turns out that Labour and Raytheon have had a long cosy relationship. Money donated to the party from the company. A juicy contract given to the company by a Labour administration in return.

      The SNP trying to turn swords into ploughshares.

      Labour turning swords into share dividends( and so into donations to Labour).

      Is Gillian Marles going to be outraged? Or has she quickly lost interest in Raytheon?

    78. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says:

      The new Bruce movie looks really exciting

      It certainly has a lot of people excited. The newly released trailer appears as 1st/2nd most popular video on YouTube!

      The eyes of the world upon Scotland on the theme of our (historical) independence, can do no harm IMO. Power to their sword arms 🙂

    79. mike cassidy says:

      Slightly OT

      When people’s past discretions are brought up

      it will always be worthwhile pointing out this.

      http://archive.is/dznFv

    80. Marie Clark says:

      Hiya Cactus @ 2.11 whit’s Edinburgh 18th October is it your birthday or something? Or are you meaning AUOB march is that no the 6th October?

      Dinnae confuse an auld wummin.LOL

    81. Clapper57 says:

      Their hypocrisy proves yet again that Labour in Scotland play only to the gullible gallery and those, keep the red flag in the closet for now , voters who support them….aided and abetted by a media desperate to harm the SNP and Independence movement.

      Is it apathy or complicity that prevents some Scots to seek out validity of news as presented by a political party and a media supportive of maintaining the political status quo.If one , nowadays, just blindly accepts what one reads or hears and does not seek clarification of the facts via research then that makes you either a special kind of idiot, a supporter of that message, lazy and thus open to exploitation, part of the missing link that allows shit to happen and one’s own worst enemy.List not exhaustive by any means.

      However “SOME CRITICS SAY”….if you are going to take the high moral ground tis best perhaps to check first that the very argument you utilise as a weapon is also not the same argument that can be utilsed as a weapon against you by those you attack.Call me naive but I would have thought one own’s house would need to be in order and ensure I was not in a glass house before throwing stones.

      Indeed in light of Labour in Wales an own goal has been scored and perhaps the PR team that Labour in Scotland use should be given the red card as they seem somewhat unfit by giving such an obvious tactical advantage to the ‘other’ side….they are obviously no match for the PR team used by those they attack… basically there is no defense for their actions however as a game it is one in which once more there is only one winner….and it ain’t the visitors a la Corbyn comes up North.

      Stu how many times will they need to be told that by always playing dirty they only end up covered in the dirt they try to throw at others….basic stuff Labour….start checking the following in relation to yourselves ….ask yourselves “Do we, Labour, do it” ? …”yep”….”okay so we cannot accuse them, the SNP, of doing it”….”Nope”… “if we do”…”then are we not then just cnuts, and if found out will we not then be seen as untrustworthy liars, undeserved of holding power cause everyone will know we are the worst kind of hypocrites who seem to only adhere to the ideology of ‘Do as WE say not as WE do'”.

      Also Labour remind yourselves that maybe better check the FULL facts of what they, who you attack, have actually done AND if you are twisting the truth and it is then exposed as such well tis more than probable that perhaps no one will believe ANYTHING you say from then on…even when it is true…sacre bleu !!!

      So SNP investment in a company to diversify in non military applications in ‘Labour La La world’ morphs into SNPBAD while once again the REAL culprits aka Labour’s BT friends, the Tories,who sold the weapons to Saudi Arabia that killed Yemmen people, why they, the Tories, are let off and given free reign to continue to do the very thing Labour accuse the SNP of doing….even though not true….da da daaaaaaaaaaaaa!

      Wow what a scoop for the biased media to promote….at their peril though should fair minded people take the time and effort to read the news they are NOT getting i.e. via alternative media sites such as this where the picture will indeed tell a much different story from the one being painted by SLAB and the MSM.

      This story epitomises why we need independence and is yet another sordid example of why we need to end fake news contrived by those fake political parties who not only want to govern us but who also actively want to brainwash us all with the political dogma worthy of a dictatorship .

    82. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 15:40,

      “dail”? where did that come from? Have I gone ever so slightly Irish? Apologies, that should of course have been “dai” =whoops= “day”.

    83. Tackety Beets says:

      Sorry , I have new B Band supplier and can’t get archive posts right now.

      On last post Someone left a link to CNN suggesting the Yemen bomb actually came from USA ?

      https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2018/08/17/yemen-school-bus-strike-us-bomb-elbagir-tsr-vpx.cnn

    84. Archbishop of Dork says:

      Why doesn’t someone do a Robert the Bruce comedy film? That could be useful. Who says the quest for independence has to be solemn or inspiring? It can just as easily, perhaps more easily, be satirical.

    85. Rob Glencairn says:

      I am Labour, born and bred, like my family before me.
      I could never consider voting for the Conservative & Unionist Party, or for their bedfellows.
      That is why I voted YES in 2014.
      That is why I am now a member of the SNP.
      Who else offers us the gift of Independence?
      Who else offers us a more equitable society?
      Labour in Scotland in the future?
      Perhaps, but I’m not holding my breath.
      They lack sincerity and debase their claimed values.
      Shame on them.

    86. Cactus says:

      Hey Marie Clark, October ’18 be in the year of our WOS 😉

      Making the month memorable.

      The 6th of it, it is xx.

    87. Iain mhor says:

      re: Raytheon and the question of the grant.
      I actually think that single element is worthy enough of enquiry.
      If Raytheon have more money than a horse can shite, why is Scottish money being used to promote diversification and could they not fund that from their own budget?

      But is the above question actually accurate in its assumption? I haven’t yet found precisely how the scheme and grant operates.

      If the monies are enabling peripheral support industries to engage with Raytheon on alternate projects – that would be reasonable and defensible.
      Less reasonable would be as an inducement to Raytheon by partially subsidising their end of the R&D/ Diversification/ Investment.

      Has anyone found more detail of the scheme?

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      So, in other defence moves, the Type 31e request for tenders has been put out again, this time with mention that effectively government resources will be added – perhaps for isntance kit off the Type 23. This helps meet the £250 million target for each of the 5 ships.

      There are probably two main contenders, the BAE one with Cammell Laird (who are taking the lead) which would be built in Liverpool. And the Babcock one called Team 31, which includes work at Rosyth and Fergusons on the Clyde.

      There’s a couple of articles now showing how great Cammell Laird are, they’ve lined up 2,000 supply chains. And it wouldn’t surprise me to see more one-sided commentary doing the rounds.

      Is there a purpose for this, and am I just imagining it?

      Well, here’s a clue, Cammell Laird building in Liverpool in England, Babcock all over the UK but a lot in Scotland.

      It should of course be the better tender and ship that wins, and personally I like Babcock’s Arrowhead. But it wouldn’t surprise me if Leander wins, a stretched corvette.

      Don’t forget these were originally supposed to be 5 general purpose Type 26s, to be built on the CLYDE in Scotland.

    89. Cubby says:

      Another great article. A perfect example of why I refer people to Wings if they want the truth about the stories our MSM propaganda rags put out.

      These journalists??????? Propagandist writers have no professional integrity. They have no shame either.

      How low are you when you write propaganda for a living to keep your own country under the maelovent rule of another country. Lower than a snakes belly.

    90. Robert Alexander Harrison says:

      Well done this site and the national posting labours hypocrisy levels these England party’s will sink to to shout snpbad or try to kill independence off yet not realising they’ve exposed there own two faced nature.

    91. Thepnr says:

      O/T For any that are interested, Michel Barnier and Dominic Raab due to give press conference in 10 minutes at 16:45.

      Live video link here:

      https://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/live.cfm?page=1

    92. Shug says:

      Insome ways I wish people would stop bashing the labour party they are already a joke. The real target is thw fake news circulatwd by the BBC.
      The way they hide and misreport andthen haaave the nwrv to say wings misreport

    93. Muscleguy says:

      Yet again if my bladder was about to burst from being far, far too full I would not deign to empty it if I were passing and PQ were on fire.

      My wife is threatening to leave me here in Dundee and move to Edinburgh. Which will mean I will FINALLY have the opportunity to cease to pay the license fee. She can take it with her to her new gaff, along with the televisual viewing device. It will save me the cost of paying Virgin for the tv connection as well.

      Increasingly I fail to find anything I’m even remotely interested in watching and just go online or read a good book instead. Speaking of which Robert N Bellah’s Religion In Human Evolution is an absolute cracker. I’m enjoying it immensely.

    94. Thepnr says:

      Labour polling in third place behind the Tories and wondering why? Well if you’re happy to do the Tories dirty work for then then you really shouldn’t be surprised to reap the flak when your SNP Bad message jumps up and bites you on the bum.

      You should be spending all your time attacking Tory policies which are the greatest enemy of Scotland especially when they are in power. Your attack should have been aimed at them that allow such weapons in the hands of the Saudis to then blow up buses full of Yemeni children.

      The fact of the matter is Labour in Scotland are their own worst enemy and countless people will continue to desert them for the SNP while they fail to attack the real enemy in Scotland, Ruth Davidson and the despicable Tory Party.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s an articl in the National now about this:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16589395.scottish-labour-exposed-as-hypocrites-over-raytheon-row-with-snp/

      Here’s my posting, relevant to what I posted here before about forum spies.

      ————
      Using misinformation and disinformation (M/Dis) is commonplace. There is a problem, however, in that over time it gets rumbled. And the thing is this, while such M/Dis might be aimed at the SNP and Independence there are nearly always two “victims”, the SNP or Indy, AND for instance the NHS, Police, Rail, you name it. In this case Raytheon in Scotland itself.

      The second victim will generally be aware of the reality, so when confromted by such M/Dis, in time the word will get around, and the source of the M/Dis identified and discredited. More and more people will then learn to distrust completely the source of the M/Dis.

      Sadly for Labour in Scotland they are often the source of M/Dis, and will suffer for it, in fact they are already.
      ————

    96. Referendum1707 says:

      Sorry o/t but this is muy importante and it’s needing a boost.

      One million pro indy leaflets for distribution throughout the country plus other stuff.

      https://igg.me/at/yes-we-can

    97. stu mac says:

      @Archbishop of Dork says:
      21 August, 2018 at 4:04 pm
      Why doesn’t someone do a Robert the Bruce comedy film?

      ============================

      Much better to pick subjects where there would be natural comedy. How about Boswell and Johnson on their tour of the Highlands and Islands? Apart from the recorded with there would be many scenes such as the elderly and overweight Johnson struggling through morasses and pouring rain in the middle of nowhere. Or King Geordie the fat bursting out of a ridiculous highland costume? I’m sure we could all think of plenty more.

    98. yesindyref2 says:

      @Referendum1707
      It’s worth also saying that that Indedgogo crowdfunder is by Lindsay Bruce, well trusted and respected, occasional poster here with a different handle, and is he of ayeMail who distribute all the Wings fundraiser perks, and part of the WBB distribution I think.

      His provenance is impeccable! Nice guy as well 🙂

      https://igg.me/at/yes-we-can

    99. Dan Huil says:

      @Muscleguy 4:48pm

      Dundee is a liberating place.

      I’ve recently been reading up on Irish history. Came across this: “The Year of Liberty” by Thomas Pakenham. The story of the Irish Rebellion of 1798.

      I was totally ignorant of this episode in Ireland’s history. It’s jaw-dropping stuff.

      Q: What have you got in your hand?

      A: A green bough.

      Q: Where did it first grow?

      A: In America.

      Q: Where did it bud?

      A: In France.

      Q: Where are you going to plant it?

      A: In the crown of Great Britain.

      [From the United Irish catechism.]

    100. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 16:50,

      Yes, you have to wonder what SNHS staff think about that, for example.

      The difficulty is that many working people, not least in the public sector, are only ever represented in the media by the recognised labour unions, who are all themselves in cahoots with NorthBritLab up to their eyeballs (including their fat purses). And often themselves, one suspects, looking to cause trouble for the SG far beyond legitimate bargaining practice. (Recall “nursey”, for example.) All just to “prove” that the SG “isn’t working”. (The inherent Achilles heel of mitigation, of course.)

      Others whose only source is the TV news don’t get an inkling of it, and getting the truth out there by word of mouth seems to be very slow. People can be fickle.

    101. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Whats that sulphurous stench ….why its Scottish Labour shitting on Scotland again.

    102. Skip_NC says:

      Robert Peffers @ 1:31pm, the point I was making was one of degree. Of course it was publicized on the SG website. However, it is also reasonable to ask why there were no photo opportunities. Such a question is reasonable, in my view. Mind you, I have been in the USA for almost seventeen years so I am used to corporate welfare and the publicity it gets.

      The problem I have with the interviewer is that she clearly had an agenda and that requires some explaining by her employers, perhaps alongside a fair and balanced interview where the SG can explain the relatively muted publicity.

    103. K1 says:

      The very notion that Wings is an ‘echo’ chamber, which is being surreptitiously mentioned, sometimes across threads these days, is a nonsense, as others have repeatedly retorted, this site is read literally by hundreds of thousand of people a month.

      Not only that, we talk to our family and friends who maybe don’t read Wings on a regular basis as many of the commenters do.

      This is always followed by the inference that ‘it’s not working’ and ‘here’s the proof’…’we lost the MP’s in GE17’, no we didn’t, yes we lost some seats on the back of dark money parachuted in wannabe bigots who are proving themselves to be the ineffectual and totally ‘nae surrender’ numpties that they are, this includes the parachuted in bigots in various councils who gained entry on the back of the same ugly, lying tactics as were utilised during that GE campaign.

      They aren’t ‘winning’ support, they aren’t gaining ground. But those who are still tuning into to that ‘spin’ are on here promoting that very spin when they bemoan Stu’s articles not reaching a wider audience. We are in fact winning and that is why they have to use dirty tactics, everyone knows this is why they do it because they can’t win anything without these ‘dark arts’ being employed.

      You just need to read/watch the msm for a solid day in the UK to see the disaster that UKexit is and the amount of backpeddaling spin that is being utilised to ‘cancel’ the madness, that’s why those arses were up in Edinburgh the other day, not because they ‘need’ Scotland for a ‘people’s vote’ but because they know without Scotland on board they don’t have any UKexit at all, for without our resources there are no trade deals, as most of them will involve our resources in Scotland and that is why the 24 powers that they essentially need to make it happen are of paramount importance.

      To believe that most of Scotland is not aware of this is to believe that people are as stupid as Labour/msm believe we are?

      Don’t fall for this ‘spin’ on events in motion right now. When the proverbial hits the spinning wheel of misfortune the splatter and its smell will be around for decades. If Scotland doesn’t get out when ‘we know exactly what UKexit looks like’ then we will be covered in the stuff too and if Scotland decides to stay in this union then we deserve everything we have coming.

      But it won’t be because some of us gave up ‘because we couldn’t counter’ their arguments, it will be in spite of our attempts…and much like the historically inaccurate Braveheart…what would you rather do…moan about how the info isn’t getting out there, on the number one independence site in the UK.? Or be part of making sure as much as you are capable of by informing those you know, of marching on the streets, of voting and making sure everyone you know votes too come the moment?

      Let’s not fall for the spin. We’re here to counter the lies, the spin, and don’t kid ourselves just because as the atl conveys…the msm in Scotland print and scream lying headlines across their titles that they are in any way ‘true’. The exact same applies to this ‘political spin’ about how Scotland ‘is divided’, has it occurred to anyone that we’re maybe not?

      High 70’s percent of Scots wanted devolution…it’s clear where all this is leading, and if you think for one moment the msm in Scotland don’t know that and attempt to repeatedly undermine our government, our movement then you are not paying attention. Why would they have to go to the lengths they do…eg: printing a close cropped picture of a union flag and Saltire on the day after the biggest independence march Glasgow had ever witnessed, with a caption stating that march was ‘marred by violence’?

      Remember the outcry, remember the astonishment? They aren’t winning, no matter how many sneaky wee unionist trolls come on to Wings to lecture us on ‘but the vote in 2014 was binding and forever and ever amen’, they are talking absolute shite, they want ‘democracy that suits what they believe democracy’ looks like.

      Stop believing the lies about how far Wings reaches, it reaches the parts absolutely no other outlet can and that is what the msm in Scotland cannot counter, even the BBC tried to shut down Wings youtube resource, that’s how desperate they are.

      Why if Wings is so ineffectual and can’t compete with the Scottish msm, why has our movement not collapsed, why has the SNP government not lost support, they are still the biggest party in terms of members and in all political governmental tiers throughout Scotland? We didn’t lose either the Holyrood or Westminster elections. And anyone suggesting that because of those campaigns and dark money tactics thrown at it, that we somehow ‘lost’ because of headline numbers is promoting a false narrative on here?

      Why aren’t those who are sneaking in wi the ‘och we’re up agin it’ not countering this spin with those facts?

      Because that is what this site does and it behooves commenters to get their facts straight instead of insinuating the msm spin btl?

      Gie it a rest, get with it or just moan into a pillow but don’t come on here we seeds of doubt and spray them btl and don’t assume those that aren’t commenting or are commenting less frequently aren’t watching these threads very closely and see exactly who’s doing what on here.

    104. stewartb says:

      Re – the Gillian Marles interview and Jamie Hepburn’s performance on GMS, this is an analysis of it by a media training company based in Reading. It is an interesting read even though written probably for marketing purposes.

      https://www.mediafirst.co.uk/our-thinking/spokesperson-shows-how-to-handle-a-hostile-interview/

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Dominic Raab showing Michelle Barnier who the toughest guys on the block are by pulling out his gun that shoots a British flag that goes pft and Monseur Barnier holding up his 27 barrel EU blunderbuss that goes !!Blaam!! !Kersplaatt! !Boom!

      Undaunted *British* gunfighter Raab plays his trump card and shoots out the word “Pragmatism” Monseur Barnier shrugs his gallic shoulders and says “pft”

      Scottish translation from the French: Rules is rules pal

    106. Morgatron says:

      I want Marles to redo the interview again. Thats fair.

    107. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 5.28
      Well said K1..
      I’ve a group of friends who are all active across 3/4 other groups and they are all only occasional readers of Wings, but they are always asking and checking information with me, as a regular reader,about, what if anything is being reported on Wings. Above and below the line.
      And let me tell ye they trust the information and reports … but mair tae the point they are passing it on in one way or another.
      So yer absolutely correct Wings has reach and influence well beyond it’s reader stats!!!

    108. Marie Clark says:

      K1 @ 5.28 By jings K1 gon yersel. Well said, seconded, every word.

    109. msean says:

      I didn’t realise Mr Corbyn was coming to Scotland.Should have guessed,really. 🙂

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s not “just” Wings, it’s the spin-offs whose success is greatly accelerated by Wings – and its readers, getting info and posting or tweeting it around.

      The likes of the National is happy to get heads-ups from articles in Wings, and probably Rev’s twitter. You look at some of the names retweeted on Wings twitter and you get a lot of level heads and very useful heads-ups as well. And crowdfunders get a boost, not just from below the line but the Rev sometimtes puts it in an article – instant boom boom time. SNP politicians devour it for breakfast, along with the grapefruit and muesli.

      In short it’s a focus. Quite frankly my dear, love it or hate it, YES would not have got to 45% without it.

    111. Colin Alexander says:

      From Companies House: Raytheon UK Limited – persons with significant control: Raytheon Company, The Corporation Trust Center Delaware USA.

      Try Googling the The Corporation Trust Center Delaware.

      You will learn it’s a serves as a means of keeping corporate secrets and a tax loophole exploit.

      I wonder who the Scottish Govt are really handing our cash to? Is this another shell company to hide behind?

      Come on Stu, let’s hear the whole story, if you can find the information. Who really owns Raytheon Company?

      I think you have raised more questions than you have answered.

    112. Colin Alexander says:

      From Companies House: Raytheon UK Limited – persons with significant control: Raytheon Company, The Corporation Trust Center Delaware USA.

      Try Googling the The Corporation Trust Center Delaware.

      You will learn it’s a serves as a means of keeping corporate secrets and a tax loophole exploit.

      I wonder who the Scottish Govt are really handing our cash to? Is this another shell company to hide behind?

      Come on Stu, let’s hear the whole story, if you can find the information. Who really owns Raytheon Company? To whom has our money gone?

      I think you have raised more questions than you have answered.

    113. Clapper57 says:

      @ K1

      Excellent comment…..Ah but of whom is it that you refer to as
      sneaking in with the ‘och we’re up agin it’ comments ? Hmm.

    114. galamcennalath says:

      Barnier just stating the obvious. Well, seems obvious me anyway ….

      “The UK is leaving the European Union, it is not the other way around.

      “The UK is leaving and it is their choice and we respect that choice whilst regretting it. But the European Union is based on principles and values, on rules.

      “It is a whole ecosystem which is integrated of rules and laws and standards, of supervision and of certification… which the UK knows very very well because we built it together, didn’t we?

      “We have been building it over some 40 or so years together. So those principles will remain our principles because that is the way it is. They are the principles we have been working on and on which the single market is based.”

      Yet the Tories expect a whole new system developed just to accommodate their perverted ideas of self entitlement.

      https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2018/08/21/eu-will-not-abandon-principles-to-facilitate-brexit-deal-for-uk–barnier/

    115. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      K1 @ 17:28,
      Liz g @ 18:02,

      The follow-on question is then, to what extent is WoS managing to penetrate former no-voting people who might now be open to reconsideration, as opposed to those who are already to some degree or other “within the circle”, so to speak?

      That’s not to cast any aspersion on WoS itself, BTW, which is very evidently feared by the BritNat hydra, and for good reason. On the contrary, it seems to me that the more people who connect up with WoS, the merrier.

      Not everyone though, as Liz recognises, will visit diligently every day, but no matter. At least they know. But what about those who still don’t know? I suspect there are still quite a number, especially among previous-no’s, despite the BBC’s best attempts to change that! =laugh=

      I’m wondering, would a Scotland-wide postcard campaign help to reach those still currently unaware? Presented not specifically as a pro-indy site, but (still correctly) as a site that regularly analyses and debunks media fake news from a Scottish viewpoint?

      And what about (say) an online WoS “news stream” that condenses Stu’s articles (without btl) for those with busy lives and/or without Twitter or who are turned off by the “robustness” there…?

    116. Highland Wifie says:

      @K1 5.28
      Agree wholeheartedly. Checking out Twitter and other social media regularly leaves nobody in any doubt that we are winning.
      Well said.

    117. K1 @5.28.Well said.

      I am aware that we are a highly educated bunch who post across these excellent sites.
      The time is near when we abandon sarcasm and go for the jugular.
      When the campaign proper begins, no more Mr and Mrs Nice Guy.
      The Sunday Mail SNP BAD editorial on Raytheon was an absolute disgrace. We do not have the author’s name but I guess we can make a stab at who wrote this disgusting perversion of the truth.
      Funds from the Scottish Government so that an arms manufacturer can convert swords into plough shares and protect hundreds of Scottish jobs is twisted into an accusation that the Scottish Government was complicit in and provided funding for the murder of yet more innocent children in the Middle East?
      You disgust me.
      Jenny Marra lying about severance packages, Johann Lamont on GMS ‘lying’ by implying that the SNP can intervene in a reserved Medical matter.
      Richard Leonard opening his mouth and claiming Scottish Government mitigation and interventions as Branch Office Red Tory initiatives.
      Does anyone want Anas Sarwar, Neil Findlay, Johann Lamont, James Kelly, Jenny Marra, Jackie Baillie, Iain Gray, Richard Leonard,running the country?
      It is beyond a joke.
      The Branch Office of the Red Tories is a withering corrupt husk.
      Meanwhile Mum 2B Davidson pops up in the obliging MSM, spouts crap, then disappears back down her bolt hole, and Carlaw, Fraser, Tomkins, Smith, Mundell, and Mountain creep about in the undergrowth hoping nobody notices that they are part of the Blue Tory Regime which is killing tens of thousands of UK citizens every year by starving them of money to give to the rich, like Rowling and Lord Darling, as tax breaks.
      Why there is not an uprising now beats me.
      Their precious corrupt little Union is dead.
      They know that. I find it inconceivable that Scots will tolerate being dragged out of the EU to be forced into colonial status under the English yoke now.

    118. Hamish100 says:

      Thanks for the links to The Outlaw King- looks good – according to the trailer.

      Probably get banned in Scotland until any Independence referendum is passed. Out in November.Feel good facto thereafter if seen!

    119. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s not “just” Wings, it’s the spin-offs whose success is greatly accelerated by Wings – and its readers, getting info and posting or tweeting it around.

      The likes of the National is happy to get heads-ups from articles in Wings, and probably Rev’s twitter. You look at some of the names retweeted on Wings twitter and you get a lot of level heads and very useful heads-ups as well. And crowdfunders get a boost, not just from below the line but the Rev sometimtes puts it in an article – instant boom boom time. SNP politicians devour it for breakfast, along with the gr*pefruit and muesli.

      In short it’s a focus. Quite frankly my dear, love it or hate it, YES would not have got to 45% without it.

      Edit: wow! you have to spell gr*pefruit like that!

    120. Scott says:

      Very O/T
      BBC main news.
      Golden Eagle chicks released for the first time at a secret location in the south of Scotland all very good now we have reporter Laura Gordon finishing off with this,wait for it.

      Laura Gordon in the Moffat hills so much for secret location we will have people rushing to the hills to see the eagles.Just another BBC co.k up.

    121. ahundredthidiot says:

      Re – Outlaw King

      That movie really needs to be banned.

      IF YOU’RE A BRITNAT!!

      I can hear the Universe now, gears turning, NS timing on Indyref2, Brexit, mouth-frothing unionists, fake news BBC, Michelle Mone…..and a wee movie to re-energise the Scottish History debate.

    122. Shinty says:

      Re: the new Bruce film, the big question is, will it be shown in Scotland or will the PM have it banned, just as David Cameron did with Outlander during indyref.

      Spoke with some Americans a few years ago and they were raving about Outlander, having watch all 8? series. Told them about the ban in Scotland and they were gobsmacked and couldn’t believe I hadn’t seen a single episode.

      Would have been nice to have a Scottish actor as The Bruce, but Chris Pine? I’m the last to complain (swoon)

    123. Colin Alexander says:

      Raytheon Company are a $25billion global arms / defence / aerospace company. They must have needed the money eh?

      “The world’s largest manufacturer of missiles”. So, is the parent company gonnae turn missiles into ploughshares now?

      Major corporate investors include those who spoke out against Scottish independence: Deutsche Bank and Blackrock.

      From BBC in 2014:”The world’s biggest investment fund manager (Blackrock) has said Scottish independence would bring “major uncertainties, costs and risks”.

      From BBC in 2014:Deutsche Bank: “Deutsche Bank warning over Scottish independence. Deutsche Bank has compared a possible Yes vote in the Scottish independence referendum to the mistakes which led to the Great Depression of the 1930s.

      Stu, I think you got it wrong defending the Scottish Govt this time. Though, you are completely right about the hypocritical crap from Labour.

    124. Shinty says:

      More power to your keyboard K1 – great post.

    125. Flower of Scotland says:

      I was watching Broadcasting Scotland at 7 and I’ve really, really tried to like it but the lady who is on and she does Full Scottish is really bad. She reads it all but can’t really, if you know what I mean.

      I’ve donated and tried but just because it’s Scottish doesn’t make it good. For goodness sake are we that bad that we can’t get an online Scottish News programme on air that’s a bit more professional. Sorry for the rant!

    126. Robert Kerr says:

      Another film that has already been condemned as “historically inaccurate” is “Mary Queen of Scots” due to be released in January. Perfect timing for iRef2.

      Mary Stuart was executed on the orders of her cousin. That was the Judicial Murder of an Anointed Queen.

      Link to trailer

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnqjSgMU36U

      Saoirse Ronan is Mary Stuart.

      Wiki link

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Queen_of_Scots_(2018_film)

    127. Clootie says:

      If you are young and being tempted to vote Labour…think hard…many, many Scots spent years in the hope that they would deliver what they promised. The only succes they achieved was filling the unelected House of Lords with idiots who line their own pockets.
      The highest level of political effort they can muster is to abstain.

      Save yourself years of misery and disappointment.

    128. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      yesindyref2 at 5.08

      Very nice guy indeed!

    129. Iain mhor says:

      Well I did a wee look about and of course some of the grant monies were stated in the interview to be part of a collaboration with Strathclyde Uni.
      I know there was an FOI request (FOI reference: FOI/18/01952)
      Requesting details of meetings between Paul Wheelhouse and Raytheon in January of this year.

      Also an FOI in July 2017 (FOI 2017/185) to Strathclyde Uni which seems to predate this particular story. The FOI does seem to imply that Strathclyde Uni does work closely with various businesses in the Military Industrial Complex and the FOI seeks to address ethical implications.,

      “I am writing to request information on the research and financial relationships the university holds in the following companies: BAE Systems, Lockheed Martin, QinetiQ, Rolls-Royce, GKN, Cobham, Elbit Systems, Leonardo, L3 Technologies, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Thales,
      Boeing, General Dynamics, Airbus, United Technologies, Babcock International, Serco, Meggitt, AirTanker, Chemring and Ultra Electronics and any other arms companies…”

      As for the monies, It’s not a fortune and despite a certain character here suddenly latching on to this like a limp- I doubt he’ll find it offshored in the Caymans.
      We know where some of it went, the rest I don’t know. Nor will I spend any more time on it.
      We’re sure to find out anyway, as the crack teams of investigative journalists in Scotland are on the case. Probably a case of bevvy, but on it nontheless.

      https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/research_and_financial_relations_18#incoming-1024119

      https://www.beta.gov.scot/publications/foi-18-01952/

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Probably didn’t read this bit:

      RSL Glenrothes is also looking to diversify into civilian applications such as avionics, renewables, oil &gas, transportation, air traffic control and weather radar. REDACTED]. As well as seeking to diversify into alternative markets, the site has a key focus to raise greater awareness in Raytheon Corporate of what the Glenrothes site does with a view to [REDACTED]

      Here, it’s in big letters:

      DIVERSIFY INTO CIVILIAN APPLICATIONS

      HTH, HAND

    131. Robert Peffers says:

      @Skip_NC says: 21 August, 2018 at 5:18 pm:

      ” … Mind you, I have been in the USA for almost seventeen years so I am used to corporate welfare and the publicity it gets.”

      Yes, Skip_NC, I knew you had been out of the loop for some time. I vaguely remembered some of your previous comments. What I was attempting to get across was the dire state of the United Kingdom media these days and the Scottish media in particular.

      It isn’t only what they choose to make the news, and I emphasis, “Make the News”, for they have long since ceased to report the news and it really is a quite contrived and co-ordinated exercise. They also deliberately suppress the news.

      When the, “Scotsman”, was a broadsheet and often held to be one of the World’s greatest papers and you could get a copy at every reasonably sized airport in the World I used to read it from Masthead to the end of the sports pages, (and do their great cryptic crossword most days). I was a news junkie and had been a politics anorak since boyhood. Now, for many years I do not ever read any newspaper, do not watch TV and rarely listen to the Radio.

      They are, with only one exception, UK Tory Government propaganda pamphlets. Not that I’m no longer a news junkie – I just get my news fixes from different dealers now.

      Here’s the thing, though, The BBC in particular no longer even has BBC reporters and that goes especially for BBC Scotland – the highlight of their news output is to, (cough!), “Review”, the newspapers and as already described there seems to be a co-ordinated choice of the topic of the day and, in Scotland, that has become turning anything whatsoever into an SNP/SG bad story.

      It usually begins with an almost word for word quotation from one of the Westminster, multi-coloured, Tory party press releases.

      It’s like reading the (cough!), “Scottish”, Labour Party Press releases no matter which paper or which broadcaster you have the misfortune to be attempting to get the news from.

      Laughably they make claims that social media is all fake news.

    132. BAE is the biggest UK arms dealer to Saudi,(over £40billion)

      Sir Roger Carr is Chairman of BAE,
      Sir Roger Carr is Vice Chair of BBC,
      Sir Roger Carr is Non Executive Director of Bank of England,

      his wiki page has been got at by Philip Cross,

      BAE was sentenced in March 2010 by US District Court Judge John D. Bates to pay a $400 million fine,

      US District Judge John Bates said the company’s conduct involved “deception, duplicity and knowing violations of law, I think it’s fair to say, on an enormous scale”

      British Labour MP Paul Sweeney worked for BAE and is/was also in the same military regiment as Colonel Ruth,

      UK Business and Politics is utterly corrupt.

    133. Morgatron says:

      Coilin Alexander,I see you never found an unlocked toilet last night, as you’ve just farted all your built up shite on to our screens once again. Go and find and i quote “something more intresting “

    134. stewartb says:

      Iain mhor @ 7:39 pm

      Thanks for the FOI request link. Whoever she is, the same Ms Poyner lodged c. 22 similar FOI request with UK universities in 2017 – some were refused, some still pending.

      See: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/jessica_poyner

    135. Fred says:

      Sean Batty reports heavy rain expected to wash the pish from the streets of Largs over the next two days.

      That’s a relief!

    136. Thepnr says:

      @stewartb

      There was a Jess Poyner with the “Campaign Against Arms Trade” group.

      Quite probably the type of group who would make such FOI requests.

    137. Andy Smith says:

      Does anyone know if business cards with wings web link exist? If like to see card with simple wording i.e. ” The truth is out there”,and link to this site, could be left almost anywhere.

    138. call me dave says:

      I have bought ‘The National’ every day since it started and was on the electronic version in the first year but lapsed. 🙁

      But decided to buy a subscription again this afternoon to go with my paper version which I leave for others to read everyday (after doing the X-word).

      This story cheered me up today:

      Scottish tidal turbine sets worldwide ‘industry benchmark’ in its first year

      https://archive.is/FNR1D

    139. Calum McKay says:

      Would it be wrong or over the top to calll labour in Scotland, lying scum who have reason to be?

      I have just heard their leader corbyn saying labour are working to get a great brexit deal.

      Message needs to go out to young people that corbyn lied to them whilst selling them down the river on brexit.

      corbyn is as much a brexiteer as mogg, fox, gove and johnson.

      As for their leader in Scotland, forgotten his name, he’s worse than lamont, and that takes monumental incompetence and uselessness.

    140. Liz g says:

      Robert J Sutherland @ 6.46
      I don’t think that how much Wings is penetrating to soft No,s in this instance is measurable.
      What it is doing is providing a “corner stone” to the people who are having the conversation.
      At lot of the time when I but in here with a random “off topic question “ it’s in response to someone who has messaged me …. quick Liz is it right/true that ya da ya da….
      Often I’ll say I don’t know but I’ll ask on Wings someone there will know… that’s a service that no other resource has … well not almost 24/7… This has to be doing some good I’d say!!!
      As for post cards… not sure about them.
      All it would take is one announcement from the Bird that “corntroversal blogger WOS” was sending them to Mibbi neutralise the effect of them… the Rev will know best if it’s a project worth doing?

    141. Morgatron says:

      Cant believe im getying a chance to say this” Right Said Fred –
      No offence Fred, your last comment made me chortle .

    142. Colin Alexander says:

      @Yesindyref2

      https://www.caat.org.uk/resources/publications/government/who-calls-the-shots-0205.pdf

      “Corporate sponsorship
      Corporate funds have also come in the form of
      sponsorship of Labour Party events/activities. Those
      who have sponsored the party in excess of £5,000
      since 1997 include: Raytheon Systems Limited, a UK based
      subsidiary of America’s fourth largest military
      contractor and the world’s largest missile makers”

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 21 August, 2018 at 6:25 pm:

      ” … I wonder who the Scottish Govt are really handing our cash to? Is this another shell company to hide behind?”

      So as you’re the one Googling to find out, why don’t you tell us?

      “… Come on Stu, let’s hear the whole story, if you can find the information. Who really owns Raytheon Company?”

      You seem more than capable to use Google when it comes up your humph, so why not do your own research and then you can tell us? Stu has more than enough to do without joining such as you, the Labour, Tory and LibDem, SMSM and Scottish Broadcasters in attempting to dig up dirt to smear the SNP/SG.

    144. Liz g says:

      Artyhetty @ 11.58 this morning..
      Aw thats a wee shame that yer surgery didn’t go ahead.
      While it must be annoying,I’m sure they did the right thing,hopefully you’ll get over your infection and will be good to to soon.
      Look after yerself Artyhetty and keep us informed X

    145. Haggishunter says:

      Didn’t labour support trident and therefore the spending of 100s of billions on something that could never be used

    146. mike cassidy says:

      This is completely OT

      But I thought it would put a smile on faces

      And maybe the odd ‘peeling an onion’ moment.

      Take it as an evening treat.

      https://twitter.com/meandmybigmouth/status/1031476453785919488

    147. Jim says:

      Ooh My Giddy Aunt, am I watching the death-Knell of the British empire in real time.

    148. Terry says:

      Anas Sarwar of Scottish Labour is waiting in the wings like a vulture watching his prey die.

      Sarwar wants the top Scottish Labour job, not to tell us of his vision for Scotland, but to tell us how bad the SNP are.

      He specialises in that you know.

    149. Jim says:

      Unfortunately for the Westmister parties, including their branch offices in other countries, your lies are being exposed daily, to use a Colloquialism, you are a fucking busted flush and you need to get with the program, Independence is coming for Scotland, it is an inevitability.

    150. Dr Jim says:

      Christ it was only this afternoon I mentioned the miserable snotty detracters of the new movies coming out about Scotland
      We’ve got them all, the inaccurate hysterical historicals, the accent experts, the bigots, in fact all the multitudes and assemblies of misery gutted maniacal haters of all things Scottish, and that includes the ones who live here

      For the life of me I just don’t get it, these films haven’t even been released yet and the dogs of war are snapping at them and none more so than the grubby wee *Yoon so called Scot buts* themselves
      We’ve got the British nationalist ones (expected) and the ones who expect more taste and direction or film quality y’know (the pretendy critics) but the ones that get my goat are the Scots with the (Aye they’ll come and make money oot us the noo then they’ll bugger off) attitude

      The world is interested in Scotland and we all know why and so do the haters “Independence” that’s why, and the profile of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon of Scotland and the SNP
      because without them and her nobody ever cared before except to make monumentally absurd cartoon drunks out of us or insanity inducing Brig O Doon garbage

      It all started with the Braveheart blockbuster, we just had the Marvel people here making the Avengers for goodness sake, we’ve got the Outlander franchise which is massive around the world now, this is huge for Scotland and anything that raises our profile this much can only be great for our country, so I say thank you Nicola Sturgeon for putting yourself about the world on Scotlands behalf and making folk take notice of us, and thank you to the movie studios and actors who have come to Scotland and chosen us to make your movies

      I for one am damn well grateful to you all for making Scottish and Scotland well used normal words “Made in Cumbernauld Scotland” sounds good to me and a damn sight better than bloody Cricklewood that other place

      Chris Pine, I like him, Saoirse Ronan,a fantastic actor in everything she’s in and she’s lovely Irish so double good

      So stick it up yer pipe Brits we’re having a rising

    151. Robert Peffers says:

      @call me dave says: 21 August, 2018 at 8:41 pm:

      ” … This story cheered me up today:
      Scottish tidal turbine sets worldwide ‘industry benchmark’ in its first year.

      https://archive.is/FNR1D

      Cheered me up too, call me dave. Want to know how long I.ve been an advocate for utilising the use of the sea currents off Scottish shores? I’ll tell you anyway – Since we had a debate on possible alternative sources of generating electricity when I was serving an apprenticeship in Rosyth Dockyard in 1952 or perhaps it was 1953.

      When we considered Hydro, wave motion, tidal barrage and a few other things the figures we worked out put sea currents way out in front. Wingers might remember I have posted comments to that effect several times here on Wings.

      Thing was that the method was practical in the 1950s with the engineering capabilities we had then.

    152. Jim says:

      Probably not very likely, but, I may consider voting for a Labour party that is truely invested in Scotland and it’s interests and is registered as a Scottish Political party otherwise you can go fuck yourselves!

      Under no circumstances will I vote for a Labour party that is a branch member of London Labour, you are tainted lying scum and through media such as Wings and the many other Independence supporting organisisations, we can now disseminate the truth and hell mend you ("Tractor" - Ed)s to your own country.

    153. Jim says:

      @Terry:

      Anas will fair no better than those that went before until he accepts that Scotland needs it’s own political parties, made in Scotland for Scotland.

      When he realises this he may start to pull people in his direction but this is highly unlikely!

    154. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Terry

      Labour are too racist for Sarwar anyhow he has baggage.

      Bring back Jim Murphy I say, at least Jim was good for a laugh, god please bring back Jim Murphy.

    155. mr thms says:

      A BBC article about an official invitation to the First Minister to visit Catalonia by its President, refers to ‘Sturgeon’ ‘Nicola Sturgeon’ or ‘Ms Sturgeon’ throughout. Her official role as the First Minister of Scotland is omitted.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45258811

    156. Jim says:

      P.S, Anas is a thick cunt living of Daddy’s success, I have seen many examples of this phenomena!

    157. Highland Wifie says:

      @mike Cassidy 9.58
      Thank you for that link. A truly lovely story and beautiful photos.
      It did put a smile on my face. 🙂

    158. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I am getting confused. The Tory government is hurtling us to Brexit, inflicting austerity on us, attacking disability provision and funding, cutting Scotland’s budget every year which is destroying the funding for all our services, introducing privatisation into the NHS in England (which has huge consequence for health provision in Scotland)and it is getting away with it – and much more in Scotland.

      This is because the Labour Party in Scotland (sharing council administrations with Tories in several areas) spends all its time attacking the SNP and letting the Tories off.
      Can anybody remember Labour attacking the Tories in our Parliament?

      The Labour Party was actually formed and gained support to protect its people from the Tories. Its present confusion in bed with the Tories may be because the SNP has come along and stolen it powers, much of its support and thousands of its members. Or maybe because they like the nice seats in the House of Commons if they can get one and the elevations to the House of Lords.

      They have just become a tool of the London Tory government.
      I wonder what Keir Hardie, John MacLean, James Connolly, James Maxton and the other brave pioneers who formed the idea of a progressive self governing Scotland would think of Labour in Scotland today.

      It is committing political suicide.

    159. Effijy says:

      “Only Labour will give Scotland Real Change”

      Yes a wooden thrupenny for every pound stolen for Westminster’s use!

    160. yesindyref2 says:

      “Those who”

      So what.

      “Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

      20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations — as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

    161. Terry says:

      I can’t think of anyone other than Anas Sarwar for the top Labour job.

      Unless Jim Murphy decides to become leader right in time for IndyRef2.

      That would be hilarious.

      “Comedy Gold Murphy” as he is known to his close personal friends. LOL

    162. Big Phil says:

      @ Dr Jim,
      Gaun yersel.

    163. Capella says:

      @ Stewarb 5.39 – good find. That media first article shows that the infamous Gillian Marles interrview has indeed become a training exercise in how not to conduct an interview, or how to combat a hostile interviewer. Great learning experience!

      https://www.mediafirst.co.uk/our-thinking/spokesperson-shows-how-to-handle-a-hostile-interview/

    164. Alba woman says:

      Jeremy’s tour of Scotland is of course a vote seeking adventure. He is selling the same old message that Labour will save Scotland from the Tories. There is the notion that Scots owe Labour their vote to be saved from the Tories by the very Labour folk who worked hand and glove with them and the OO during and after Indy Ref 1

      Return to London Jeremy….Yer jaiket has been removed from its shoogly peg

    165. Capella says:

      @ K1 5.28 – agreed, good points. I pass on what I read here to other people who don’t go online and don’t realise the how much the media lies.

      One example is the train franchises and why oh why doesn’t the SG nationalise the railways? People don’t know that the 1993 Railway Act prohibits that. People don’t know that the rail network is a reserved issue and many train delays are caused by failures of Network Rail.

      Labour constantly imply that the Scottish Government could renationalise the railways even though they themselves failed to do this and voted against Holyrood havng that power. Now that the rules are changing allowing some public ownership, Monica Lennon and her colleagues will be preparing their press releases claiming it was all their idea.

      Without WoS we wouldn’t have the facts to counter these constant complaints fuelled by the MSM.

    166. HandandShrimp says:

      I sometimes feel sorry for Neil Findlay. He talks about Labour as an ideal that exists entirely inside his head and this model Labour party is totally at odds with the utter mess that exists in real life.

    167. Kevin says:

      At the risk of sounding like the doom-laden bearer of very bad tidings, the BBC undertook its job extremely effectively during this interview, and undertook it to its maximum effect.
      We all know, long, long by now (or you were born yesterday) that the BBC’s role in Scotland is SNP-BAD. They only have to aim their rant towards their target and it’s job-done. It matters not what the content of that rant is, only that it’s delivered with the intended accusatory tone. For all their listeners (both of them) were aware, the BBC were informing them that Jamie Hepburn was using Govt funds to buy tools for scraping the nits from an ailing camel’s hairy back, or something equally vile.

      All that was missing from the Marles hectoring was a couple of ‘fuck’ words. The unionist elderly will probably add them later on behalf of her.
      Every time the BBC does this, a small gang of prominent and unhinged british ‘resident-evil’ types crack open another dusty bottle of Babycham. It irritates me.

    168. boris says:

      Remember the e-borders disaster. I wrote about it on my blog a couple of years back and in view of the utter nonsense produced by the Labour party over the last day or so inproperly linking the SNP government to Rayethon I decided to post it again.

      https://caltonjock.com/2014/08/29/the-labour-party-and-raytheon-and-the-billion-pound-failed-e-borders-scheme-and-who-pays-the-taxpayer/

    169. Meg merrilees says:

      Oh dear – I’ve just read that the GERS figures are due out at 9.30 tomorrow morning.

      I guess the headlines have already been written for thursday’s papers then… Scotland too poor, too stupid etc.

      I note this sentence in the BBC article: –
      The report, which will be published at 09:30 on Wednesday, is compiled by statisticians working for the Scottish government’s chief economic adviser, and is free from political interference.

      They must be bad then!

    170. HandandShrimp says:

      Kevin

      I am not so sure that the BBC feel that the Marles interview was a success as they only used it once and then it was ditched. If an independent media training outfit are now using it as an example of how to handle an unpleasant and hostile interviewer then I fear Gillian really will get a “must do better” on her staff report.

      All too often of late the BBC are the news rather than reporting the news. That is a disaster for journalists. The public have an instinct for what is fair game and the BBC have overstepped the mark a lot recently. That said the public by and large have switched off news channels like GMS or moved to one of the many dab radio music channels.

    171. Thepnr says:

      HandandShrimp

      “All too often of late the BBC are the news rather than reporting the news.”

      So true and says it all really.

    172. Macart says:

      @Meg merrilees

      Heh. Worry not.

      There is only one set of figures that will EVER matter so far as an independent Scotland is concerned and one gauge to judge the economic performance of ANY Scottish government.

      And GERS ain’t those. More of a yearly Britnat wishfest. They’ll be queuing up to make graphs for their news columns… bless. 😎

    173. Ghillie says:

      Stewartb @ 5.39 pm and Cappela @ 11.57 pm Thank you for that link!

      Adam Fisher of Mediafirst writes a very interesting analysis of the BBC ‘interview’ with Jamie Hepburn, SNP’s Minister of Business, Fair Work and Skills, using his calm in the face of the hostile interview technique as a training example!

      A professional analysis that reflects the sentiment and observations of many folk on line! (bit more politely though)

      Mr Hepburn behaved exactly as I would want a representative of the people of Scotland’s Government to do.

      He came across clearly, in command of the facts and with the calm that comes with knowing you are telling the truth.

      The BBC and Labour in contrast are in full shrieking panic mode. Not a dignified look.

    174. Ghillie says:

      Going back to Stewartb and Capella’s link @ 11.57 pm to Adam Fisher’s Mediafirst article on how to cope with a hostile interview, there is a very helpful ‘7 tips’ that will certainly help me when in discussion!

    175. Chick McGregor says:

      Historical record has for many centuries, been recognised as a key propaganda tool by the establishments of the time.

      In a Scottish context, Edward I’s book burning exercise in Scotland in an attempt to eradicate Scotland’s claim to sovereignty (just one of his many proto-Nazi traits) is a notorious example.

      Frequently, there are two or more opposing establishment’s versions on any historical event to consider.

      Applying ‘historiography’, modern historians are at pains to point out the motivations behind the writing of the various versions and the effects they probably have on the colour of the versions written. A laudable enough exercise.

      Scotland is no different in that respect. For example, Barbour’s ‘The Bruce’ exaggerates the numbers of English losses and Bruce and Douglas’s military achievements but most significantly of all omits Wallace because Wallace was a supporter of Bruce’s rival Balliol. Balliol gets a particularly bad historical press because he invoked the ire of both Bruce supporters and the English, despite reneging on his fealty to Edward, creating the Auld Alliance with France and invading England with an army. We are not at all blameless in the using of historical record as propaganda ourselves.

      However, my main gripe with modern Scottish historians is that they seem oblivious to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, they themselves may be subject to establishment pressures.

      I’m sure the seeming zeal on their part to expunge anything from Scottish history which might invoke ‘nationalism’ or even national identity are purely the result of unsullied academic research and has nothing to do with position appointments, grant conferrals, media coverage, book publishings, etc. since the establishment has on influence at all in those areas (cough!).

    176. Breeks says:

      OT
      Next time the SNP is condemned for not taking action on a reserved matter, they should just roll with it.

      “Ok, mesh implants are a reserved matter but you know what, we’ll ban them anyway. Oh aye, and about broadcasting…”

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella
      That media first article is totally excellent. It should be linked to on Brown’s SNP Media rebuttal twitter thing.

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, credit for that to stewartb. And to capella for repeating it otherwise I’d have missed it (skimming earlier).

    179. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ghillie
      Love those 7 tips, lessons to be learnt, specially I think, not repeating the negativity.

      https://www.mediafirst.co.uk/our-thinking/media-training-7-tips-for-surviving-a-hostile-interview/

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes We Can

    181. Nana says:

      This thread is essential reading! Debunks BREXIT and proves that independence is a necessity! So when KH produces his GERS graphs show him this and ask about wealth inequality or tax havens and why should Scotland be tied to such a corrupt state!
      https://twitter.com/tfoale/status/1025630498431926272

      Nicola Sturgeon: Glasgow is friendly and welcoming – unlike Boris
      http://archive.is/3N9EY

      Informative meeting, with Commongreen and Bella…some really frightening facts about Brexit.
      https://www.pscp.tv/w/1lPJqkwebAEKb

      Case study re bbc interview with Jamie Hepburn
      http://archive.is/pRzkJ

    182. Ken500 says:

      Scotland only voted Labour to keep the Tories out, it did not work. The unionist Parties are useless. The Greens will muck up Independence. They are the most unpopular Party with the most unpopular policies. Losing £Billions.

      The AWPR is the best thing that has ever happened in the NE. Thanks to Alex Salmond and the SNP. Brilliant. The Greens oppose it for over 10 years. Blocked the airport expansion and the golf Development. Wasting £Million/Billions. The unionists opposed the road for even longer. Alex and the SNP built it. After the NE was underfunded by Unionists for years. Labour dominated Cosla underfunded the NE 30% of all councils for over thirty years,

      The unionists have ruined the NE. Ruined the City/shire. The City £1.2Billion in debt. Borrowing and spending on shops, offices and hotels. There are shops, offices sitting empty and hotels underoccupied. They should have been building affordable houses, schools and funding essential services. A gross misuse of public money.

      The Oil & Gas sector has been ruined by Tory unfair high taxes when the price had fallen. 40% since Jan 2016. Even more before that when prices were lower. 62% tax when the price had fallen 75%. HS2 will make train journey throughout Britain take longer. It will have a devastating affect on Scotland. The fishing industry should have been using bigger nets instead of throwing back dead fish for years. Unionist policy.

      The SNP got the most elected candidates. The non existent Unionists party coalition ganged up to take control and ruin the City. The unionist are sitting in a HQ worth £Billion instead of building schools and affordable houses. Reducing class sizes and employing teachers. The unionists use the statute of limitation (30) per class as the norm. Then try to cut the allocated funding for education. John Swinney should reduce the statute of limitation on class sizes. To 26/27 to keep class sizes down.

      There will another election soon. So the Tories can lose to get them out of their mess. A shambles, the Brexit mess. A disgrace. There can’t be an IndyRef at the same time as an election campaign. If as predicted the SNP once again win the most seats. That will be the time for another IndyRef. The unionists can’t stop it. They will have no mandate. This time it will be won, if there is any justice.

      The Scottish legal system is stopping unionist illegal deportations. Not before time but how much is it costing. Scotland depopulated by Westminster centrist policies. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion has cost Scotland dear. The secret and illegal misuse of tge Scottish Oil revenues. Bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Supplying the Saudis with £40Billion of weapons and supporting apartheid States. The most despot monarchy in the world. Spending the most on the military pro rata in the world. Non democratic. Supporting policies which would not be acceptable in the UK or the US. Total hypocrites.

      Trump might bring a bit of peace. US military spending the 2nd highest in the world pro rata. Totally unaffordable. Bankrupting the US. The FBI CIA illegal surveillance on the world. Totally out of control for years. It takes a misogynistic, racist bigot to bring a bit of peace. Putin is a hero. Millions of people have gained self governance since the nineties. Over half the USSR population.

      The Russian USSR population has halved. They do not over spend on the Military. Neither do the Chinese. They increase the prosperity in their countries. Putin has increased prosperity and decreased poverty. That is why he is so popular in Russia with a high rating of approval. Putin supported self determination in Scotland against the Cameron lies. Twenty six million Russians died in the Second World War saving the West. The West creates war on their borders. Sanctions are just counter productive, Ruining the world economy. The EU are clamping down on tax evasion in Europe. Tax evasion is supporting by the US and UK. UK world tax havens established by Thatcher.

      The US UK illegal wars have cause the worst migration crisis in Europe since the Second World War. The European countries have to pay to sort out the mess. Brexit is a disaster.

    183. Fred says:

      Colin Alexander’s obvious anxiety & rushing into print over the lack of lavvies in Largs is indicative of a wee accident I fear. Either he has over-indulged & pished the troosers or alternatively, has completely shat himself, made his way home via back-alleys & had to resort to vigorous application of the butterknife on his nether-garments? Colin might indeed be well advised to invest in a wet-room in case of a re-occurrence of this distressing & unforeseen tragedy.

      Heaven forfend, it might even happen in Nardini’s?……. Ciao Bella!

    184. Breeks says:


      yesindyref2 says:
      22 August, 2018 at 5:00 am
      @Ghillie
      Love those 7 tips, lessons to be learnt, specially I think, not repeating the negativity.

      Yes I agree,…. to a point, but there are big risks.

      In Scotland’s immediate circumstances I would agree our pro-Indy spokespeople need to be coached on out foxing a very hostile media on a clear mission to discredit the SNP, but we shouldn’t forget the villain of the piece is the dysfunctional and highly partisan media, not necessarily an inadequacy in the SNP politician. They are politicians, not media anchors themselves.

      There is a risk that media coaching kills off honesty and spontaneity, and politicians become formulaic in their answers and start saying what they think we want to hear rather than what they actually want to say. That’s a slippery slope. We don’t want to end up like Labour, where politicians never stop talking but don’t say a thing.

      I want to see the best people for the job to be in office, not to create a glass ceiling for passionate advocates of good sense and character, but who may perhaps lack a certain presence in front of a TV camera.

      The second issue I would stress is that seeing an SNP minister being roasted in an interview might be unpleasant to watch and bad for the blood pressure, but isn’t anywhere near as damaging to Indy as the habitual uncritical “love-in” when BritNat spokespeople across the range from dog food salesmen to Ruth Davidson are allowed to spout utter pish which repeatedly goes unchallenged.

      Look beyond Scotland a moment… Ask yourself whether Brexit would have seen a different result if the UK Electorate had been properly informed about the issues OBJECTIVELY rather than led up the garden path by the xenophobic Right Wing media and their UKIP “favourites”. It was ALL hype and personality led, and wholly devoid of substance and has brought the UK to the brink of economic catastrophe.

      By all means tweak our SNP spokespersons with a few techniques of their own, but always keep the crosshairs where they belong… on the partisan BBC and their nefarious box of tricks. Despite having lasted 300+ years, these are not “normal” times we Scots are living in. We have the media of Occupation, but thankfully, their days are numbered… we must hope. Once they are gone, then we can develop our own media, where we do suffer clumsy truth and tongue-tied honesty to outrank polished media-savvy elusiveness and smarm.

    185. Ken500 says:

      Scottish history is now part of the curriculum. Before it could only be studied as subject at University.

      There are reports Maid of Norway would have been betrothed and married off to Edward 11. It was common for marriages between England, France and Scotland nobility for powers and lands.

      Scotland has equal estates. King, nobles, church and the people (estates) Scotland has a different legal system. In England people are citizens of the Crown.

      Robert Bruce (elder) wanted Scotland lands divided up to go to the three succession candidates. Primogeniture. After Alexander/Maid of Norway died. Bailiol was appointed as a puppet of Edward l. Bruce had lands in Scotland. Aberdeenshire, Stirling and Northampton. He frequented the English Court. The succession was usually male. In Scotland the clan system although appointed male, came through the female line. Alexanders 111 second wife was French. Aberdeen has a trust fund from Robert the Bruce’s lands.

      Scotland’s history is very ibteresting. International connections worldwide. Influenced world history. The Arbroath Declaration and the Enlightenment. One of the first countries to have teritary education. Scottish invention shaped the modern world. TV, radio led in to telecommunications and the internet,

    186. Macart says:

      @Nana

      A budget surplus is it? Then there’s no excuse for poverty depression, neglect or growing levels of starvation and foodbank culture on the streets of 21st century UK.

      If they’re aware of the studies linking an alarming number of deaths to legislation? If they’re aware of the UN’s accusation of state sanctioned abuse of human rights in the UK? It’s mibbies no a great idea to go boasting you had some extra wherewithal tucked doon the back of the sofa to alleviate some of that needless suffering.

      Mind you, your average parliamentarian or policy gonk doesn’t strike me as the type to give a shit about human suffering.

    187. Ken500 says:

      There is no budget surplus. The Tories have just increased the debt. They are sanctioning and starving people to death. Incereased the gap between the rich and poorer. Going the richer tax breaks and increasing child poverty. They are a complete and utter disgrace.

    188. Doug_Bryce says:

      Looks like we are about to be love-bombed with the annual GERs figures telling us we cant afford independence.

      A few things to remember

      – GERs only consider 60% of UK spending
      – Scotland gets billed for things, such as civil service in London, for which we get no direct economic return. The wages (and taxes) are paid outside of Scotland. This breaks basic rules of accounting.
      – No account is made of previous years where oil and gas meant Scotlands deficit was less than UKs.
      – UK government themselves admit GERs can only consider Scotlands fiscal position within the UK.

    189. jdenham says:

      Fred’s post at 07.47 this morning is comedy gold. I’ll be laughing all day. Thanks Fred.

    190. Donald Bruce says:

      What kind of socialism is labour? They seem happy to go along with Tory food banks. Why don’t they commit to changing the tax system to abolish the need for local charities to run these outlets to feed starving people. They seem not to understand that Scottish labour MPs in Westminster should unite with SNP to stop Tory grabbing Scottish assets.

    191. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      GERS of course includes our billions of pounds share of the interest on the UK’s national debt, a ridiculous figure for defence when we have virtually none left (except Trident), our payments to “national” expenditure including the London sewerage system and the London underground, the House of Lords,the House of Windsor, invasions of the the Middle East and thousands of other things an independent Scotland would have nothing to do with.

      This all escapes most people.

      So the best responses to GERS figures are to say “So the union has destroyed our economy then?”
      “So,the union has made us an economic basket case?”
      “The union has turned us into a beggar nation then.”
      “No wonder. This is the result of being tied to a collapsing UK economy.”
      “This is Scotland’s UK deficit”
      and don’t even start to get involved in mind numbing debates about facts and figures. That is what our opponent would like us to do.

    192. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16589129.first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-to-make-official-visit-to-catalonia/

      I see now there is a follow up story ….

      “Scottish Tories are furious about the First Minister’s Catalonia visit”

      No doubt the Tories are completely behind the Spanish government, one bunch of proto-fascists supporting another.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16589975.scottish-tories-are-furious-about-the-first-ministers-catalonia-visit/

      There’s a subtle point that gets missed about the pursuit of self determination which is worth Wingers considering. What do Catalunya 2017, Scotland 2014, Quebec 1995, have Ireland 1921 in common? Each attempted to achieve independence when around half their populations wished it, around half were opposed. By contrast, Norway 1905 achieved almost 100% Yes in a referendum.

    193. Capella says:

      @ Nana – that Quantum Choices twitter thread is brilliant. What a catalogue of useful information for any discussion on the state of UK financial policy and how it affects us poor citizens. Fleeced we are.

      https://twitter.com/tfoale/status/1025630498431926272

    194. Nana says:

      https://www.gov.scot/Publications/2018/08/3419

      As DMH says at 9.19

      “This is the result of being tied to a collapsing UK economy.”

    195. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Chick McGregor 1.43: well said re the Scottish history establishment, particularly this bit…

      “I’m sure the seeming zeal on their part to expunge anything from Scottish history which might invoke ‘nationalism’ or even national identity are purely the result of unsullied academic research and has nothing to do with position appointments, grant conferrals, media coverage, book publishings, etc. since the establishment has on influence at all in those areas (cough!).”

      The only other influence you missed were the gongs and knighthoods doled out by Brenda to award Fido for writing the Right Stuff.

      The only reason Murray Pittock gets his estimable work published is because he can also ride his other horse of Professor of Literature and is therefore more difficult to control. I believe one of his new titles will be on the occupation of the Lowlands following Culloden by the British army, which was designed to intimidate the populace and crush further Scottish resistance.

      It’s not surprising people haven’t heard of it because the cantonment records of the British army have been astonishingly difficult to get hold of, for some reason 😛 .

      I’d get something for that cough, by the way, Chick. We need you for the big independence party.

    196. Nana says:

      @Capella

      It sure is, I posted it a few weeks back and thought it worth saving.

      Someone worth following if you are on twitter is whistleblower Nicolas Wilson, he posts some interesting stuff. He recently linked to a video re HSBC, if I remember it was called ‘the dirtiest bank in the world’

      His blog is here
      http://nicholaswilson.com/

    197. Kevin says:

      Handandshrimp

      Agree with your overall logic, however;
      “I am not so sure that the BBC feel that the Marles interview was a success as they only used it once and then it was ditched”..
      Makes no difference how often repeated: how many neutrals – headline junkies – were aware it was a false story?

      “All too often of late the BBC are the news rather than reporting the news”.. Oh, absolutely.

      “That is a disaster for journalists. The public have an instinct for what is fair game and the BBC have overstepped the mark a lot recently”..
      Agreed, but it took me a number of years to reach that stage: how many years do we have before an independence-leaning Scottish public are more than the dying throes of the BBC stationed in Scotland? – sure hope it’s happened before next Spring.

      The BBC are stationed in Scotland as an ‘outpost’ and are enacting their personal final-countdown before the next Ref, they’re ramping-up and are quite indifferent if the neg-SNP story is broadcast once or over a much longer period.

    198. Iain mhor says:

      Cheers @stewartb @thepnr

      I infer from this info that the military/industrial complex utilises UK Universities as an extension of their R&D – Or at least that enough evidence exists of the practice to warrant FOI requests specific to it.
      I wonder if they pump their own money into the education system (equipment for example) or it’s all a freebie – they get free R&D, the Uni get interesting fields of research and a few Doctorates & Phd’s fall out.
      I also wonder how long this practice had been going on?
      Probably forever really. Lets face it, the brains have to come from somewhere and bleeding edge research is what Uni’s do.
      They even supply politicians if you’re shopping for one.

      Seems something investigative journos should have turned up by now eh? National interest story and all that. “Everybody Baaaad”
      Nah, silly me.

    199. Chick McGregor says:

      Thanks Tinto,
      The problem with historiography is that it concentrates on that which has been recorded in writing at the time and thus ignores the truth as seen by the masses.

      Thus the people’s view, passed on in song, balled, poetry and folklore is dismissed out of hand even when written down at some point.

      Very convenient for the establishment since there are relatively few scribes which will produce the written record and therefore a much easier prospect for the establishment to gain control of it.

      Of course the game has changed in recent times with the internet so I wonder whether future historians can continue to ignore the people’s view in our times.

      For example, Tony Blair has been officially exonerated from illegal doings in the case of the Iraq war three, or is it four, times now but if there were a nationwide poll on the matter I have little doubt that it would return a large majority which said he did.

      Which will prevail in histories of the future, the establishment view as a matter of official record or the popular view? The latter, of course, with implications that the establishment of the time were complicit in his exoneration.

      At least with the internet, the people’s views are a matter of contemporary record which will make them harder for future historians to ignore.

    200. Ghillie says:

      Breeks @ 7.51 pm

      I take your point!

      But I wasn’t suggesting our SNP politicians should take this kind of training but that the BBC’s Marle interview and Jamie Hepburn’s handling of that lady’s vitriol was now being held up as an example in their training.

      And that I think the ‘7 Tips’ could help ME when I find myself in difficult discussions.

      To date I am very impressed with the way our SNP spokespeople cope in hostile interviews, speaking in general and especially face to face!

      Who knows if they’ve ever had training or not, I think that on the whole they come across as genuine and as I would like them to represent our Scottish Government.

      And now Jamie Hepburn is text book!

    201. Tinto Chiel says:

      “Thus the people’s view, passed on in song, balled, poetry and folklore is dismissed out of hand even when written down at some point.
      Very convenient for the establishment since there are relatively few scribes which will produce the written record and therefore a much easier prospect for the establishment to gain control of it.”

      And one of the reasons, Chick, that Edward I tried to destroy as many of our documents and records as he could, essentially to erase our footprint on the planet.

      In my darker moments, I even view with suspicion the mysterious loss of one of the two ships bringing the remaining confiscated Scottish records back home in 1660, but that’s a vile sep talking, of course.

    202. stewartb says:

      Iain mhor @10:54 am?

      You wrote: “I infer from this info that the military/industrial complex utilises UK Universities as an extension of their R&D – Or at least that enough evidence exists of the practice to warrant FOI requests specific to it. I wonder if they pump their own money into the education system (equipment for example) or it’s all a freebie – they get free R&D, the Uni get interesting fields of research and a few Doctorates & Phd’s fall out.”

      Big topics, partial answer. Companies in many different sectors, especially ones reliant on scientific advances and technology-based innovation, will often use universities as key contributors to their R&D and related business development activities. This has happened for many decades and it happens globally.

      Industry sectors and their individual businesses (at least those with the capacity to absorb science and technology advances) benefit from the research and research training (e.g. PhD projects) undertaken in universities that are funded wholly by the public purse – through various forms of knowledge flow and ‘spillovers’, and by recruiting research-trained staff.

      But private companies also participate directly in university-based research by: (a) co-funding research activity and/or research facilities (CAPEX) with the public sector (and in some cases also with other companies with similar strategic interests); or (b) funding research activity in a university through a commercial contract between a company and a university.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      The GERS figures are actually pretty solid from first glance, and show a Scotland steadily reducing its notional deficit. Plus the FoAI are at pains to point out that it is a notional deficit, that GERS reflects the constitutional position of Scotland within the UK, and therefore don’t reflect what iScotland could do.

      Don’t forget also that even in the quickest of circumstances, it would be 2021 before Scotland becomes Independent, that’s another 3 years of steady GERS deficit reductions (apart from Brexit).

    204. yesindyref2 says:

      @stewartb
      There’s also EU funds available on a matching basis for private companies wanting to fund Uni research, Scotland and the rUK isn’t the greatest at using them, though at times there are people being proactive in encouraging private companies to take advantage of the funds. I (my little company) benefitted from one such grant a few years back, and useful it was too.

    205. Cubby says:

      Yesindyref2

      These GERS figures are a lot of mince. Your comments lend credibility to them.

    206. Iain mhor says:

      @stewartb 12:41pm

      Thanks for the info. Yeah I was aware of private sector investment & collaboration (stepson with Phd) The thing exercising enquiring minds seems to be an ethical
      issue where the military complex is directly involved for weaponising.

      Of course where do you stop? There are many peripheral industries which feed them, many benign technoligies which are utilised by them. So a peripheral industry may be researching a component and process in a legitimate funding partnership, but that research may find it’s way to weapons systems.
      Even in the case of direct industry, the likes of Lockheed may be undertaking research within a civil aviation brief. Would that be acceptable? Apparently not as the Raytheon story shows.

      So, I understand the ethical concerns. But even then -if that type of research and collaboration with Uni’s was purged – I do not doubt there will still be accusations like “..that giggling pin made of Vibranium the SG gave a Uni a grant to research, in partnership with BunnyGreen Renewables… is also being used in Landmines made by EvilCorp Systems! SNP Baaaaad !”

    207. yesindyref2 says:

      @Cubby
      Maybe you should direct that comment to the SNP:

      https://www.snp.org/scotland_economy_gers_figures_explained



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