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Shallow grave

Posted on April 08, 2015 by

After literally months of telling voters endlessly that the only way to stop the Tories forming the next government was for Labour to be the biggest party, Jim Murphy was finally pressed properly last night on the question by the First Minister on STV (from around 1h 40m). Here’s what happened:

That seems to be a pretty clear and unequivocal statement – Labour will vote against any Queen’s Speech from the Tories. We already know that the SNP have pledged categorically that they’d do the same.

What that means is that if the SNP and Labour between them – in ANY combination – have more than 323 MPs, the speech will be defeated and the Tories can’t form the government, whether they’re the biggest single party or not.

At that point, Ed Miliband will be invited to attempt to form one, which the SNP will vote for, and which on the numbers above will mean that Miliband becomes the next Prime Minister. Labour, though not the largest party, will form the government.

That’s from Jim Murphy’s own mouth. The lie is dead. Anyone still got any questions?

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    1. 08 04 15 12:55

      Shallow grave | Politics Scotland | Scoop.it

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      Shallow grave | Speymouth

    301 to “Shallow grave”

    1. Kieran says:

      You could sense Murphy was stalling for time especially when he kept talking over Sturgeon and Bernard. Who’s to bet either Ed Miliband or Ed Balls will come out later today and say that they’re still undecided? Or better yet, that Murphy was talking out his behind again?

    2. Fiona says:

      I didn’t watch the debate. Funnily enough I have not seen that admission reported anywhere this morning except here and on Scot goes Pop.

    3. HeehawBaws says:

      Now that I have heard it from Jim Murphy’s own mouth I am tempted to put a bet on there being a Labour/Conservative coalition.

    4. Adrian B says:

      That clears that up. I wonder what Ed thinks….

    5. manandboy says:

      That’s a wrap.

      Xcellent, Stu

    6. Finnz says:

      But, but, but… realpolitik, history, tradition….

      Labour will now officially claim Black is White….

    7. Thepnr says:

      What would Jim say if Labour were the largest party but failed to obtain SNP support in order to form a government?

    8. Joemcg says:

      Aye Stu,but will the hard of thinking ie last nights audience pick up on it? “Queens speech? Eh? Whits he oan aboot?”

    9. uilleam_beag says:

      Och, that’s simply splendibulous. Thanks for the clarification – at last!

    10. Chitterinlicht says:

      Thought Murphy was writing sketches for a new soap opera at times last night. Very weak

    11. caz-m says:

      That seems straight forward enough, cheers for clearing that up Jim.

      Now, you’re not going to say something completely different tonight, are you?

    12. muttley79 says:

      Murphy’s demeanour in that clip is very like what it was when he was shouting at people during the referendum.

    13. Stoker says:

      Rev writes:
      “That’s from Jim Murphy’s own mouth. The lie is dead.”

      The prosecution rests its case, m’lud.
      🙂
      (massive cheesy grin)

    14. heedtracker says:

      Is it really likely that Con PM Cameron and Lab deputy PM Milliband stand next to each other at podiums, in that No.10 Rose Garden, joshing and being serious and joshing and so on?

      Creepy Morphy probably wont get a cabinet seat, Scottish office Minster maybe. We’d just to have like it or lump it. BBC, Daily Record etc would sell it very hard.

    15. Moreida Lord says:

      I’m inclined to agree with HeehawBaws; though not a betting woman, I can see the ‘better-together’ and ‘anyone BUT the SNP’ coming to play here. Michael Gove said last night he would prefer a Labour win north of the border, so they are preparing already to lock out any attempt by the SNP to influence Westminster.

      The establishment is more important that the wishes of the electorate

    16. Rob Outram says:

      ..except I’ve heard it said elsewhere that because he also said that if Cameron had the largest party he would have the constitutional right to firm the next government he’s given the soundbite that will be played over and over again should that be the case on May 8th

    17. Ravelin says:

      @Fiona

      Strange isn’t it! The BBC have the SNP ‘will help make Miliband PM’ story on their website but don’t think it important enough to highlight Jim confirming that Labour would vote against the Tories forming a government (hence blowing their own “biggest party” argument out of the water).

    18. Stoker says:

      Haw Murphy, that wee wummin chewed you up and spat you back out.

      And she never even got out of 2nd gear.

      In the words of Woody Harrelson – You ain’t seen nothin yet!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnXO3ffITI

    19. Crash says:

      Last night was really the dress rehearsal for tonight which should be great by all accounts as everybody is there including David Coburn. He is just going to get pelters all night as all parties will gang up on him.

      Watch out for a clarification from Murphy about what he really means about what Stu has pointed out above. They will be working hard on it right now.

    20. Onwards says:

      I think the debate last night will have done a lot to reassure traditional labour voters that Nicola isn’t a ‘secret Tory’ after all.

      @joemcg, I am sure Nicola will spell out just what the Queens speech is tonight, and what his admission means.

    21. NewportDee says:

      Still get annoyed when Murphy says that every seat for the SNP means the Tories will get in. No they won’t – they only have one seat in Scotland and that is likely to go. If SNP take it then why does that help the Tories if they don’t get enough seats in England and Wales to form a government

    22. gus1940 says:

      I find it interesting that the broadcast and print media both Scottish and Metropolitan have been jumping all over the ‘threat’ implied by Nicola of a 2nd. Referendum.

      The way they are banging on about it it would appear that after the ‘once in a generation’ pre Referendum statement to suggest an early re-run is something akin to a political capital offence.

      It’s not as if the SNP wrecked the Occupational Pensions System and crashed the economy while comndemning hundreds of thousands to resort to food banks – to suggest a 2nd. Referendum is far worse.

      I get the feeling that they are finally coming to the conclusion that the game is up and Independence is inevitable but that they are panicking and don’t really know what to do.

      I agree with the comments above that it is now looking that a Government Of National Unity is a distinct possibility – but that is an even more Win Win Situation for Independence as it will administer the final death thrust to Labour’s Scottish Accounting Unit.

    23. Pam McMahon says:

      Sadly, I actually watched this carefully choreographed load of auld bollocks from STV last night, and this was the only part where I actually drifted out of my coma.

      As I have said elsewhere, I will not be watching the BBC re-run in Aberdeen tonight, complete with pre-selected audience bussed up the road from Edinburgh, with Bernard Ponsonby seamlessly replaced by the similarly totally unbiased James Cook.

      Yes, the broadcasters think the Scottish electorate are as thick as mince and no, we aren’t.

      Although going by last night’s audience “I was undecided, but you’ve convinced me to vote Labour, Jim” why would anybody think we have any political nous at all?

    24. Dale says:

      Actually, the protocol is to not bother the Queen unless you’re reasonably confident of passing your Queen’s speech. If she knows a Labour/SNP majority will vote against, she may reasonably refuse to participate in the farce of reading David Cameron’s swan song. Unless Ed contradicts Jim, it will come to pass.

      Then the question becomes, do the SNP have the stones to vote down a Labour Queen’s speech without sufficient concessions? Are they prepared to force new elections, like the Lib Dems haven’t for the last five years?

    25. manandboy says:

      O/T

      The FT has some bad news for the incoming Chancellor –
      the IMF has warned of a prolonged period of low growth,
      making deficit/debt reduction a lot more difficult.

      Translated, means austerity as far as the poor can see.

    26. Doug Daniel says:

      I love the “it’s a very simple answer” stuff, before going on to be as convoluted as he can be.

      I didn’t see the debate, but if the rest of it was anything like that, then I have no idea why some folk are trying to claim Murphy did well. That bit alone should kind of sink him, really.

    27. Connor Mcewen says:

      Still think the audience in these debates are skewed to unionism.
      Off topic slightly, see the Social Democratic Federation are inclined to think Referendum on independence postal votes do not seem to add up.Meeting in YES BAR to discuss, in Glasgow,
      Drury Lane.

    28. PRJ says:

      A Labour/Tory coalition is what I fear. It doesn’t need all the labour party to agree, it just needs a forum of 50+ to join with the Tory’s. This is more feasible than a Labour/SNP agreement and its worrying. This type of coalition would be able to create new restrictions on the Scottish parliament or it could abolish the Scottish government. Remember the Scottish government is only in existence at the bequeath of Westminster.

    29. Brian MacLeod says:

      Murphy was a firehose of fact-free assertions, and relied on volume rather that quality for his turn.

      And ye gods, he is creepy. Hollywood awaits, he can replace Freddy Kriger..

    30. orri says:

      This is good for a laugh,

      https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre

      56 seats won by the SNP.

      Survivors elsewhere,

      Alistair Carmichael (LD), Willie Bain (Lab) and David Mundell (Con)

      Take with a huge pinch of salt.

      Labour would, according to this, have 275 seats to 264.

    31. Lesley-Anne says:

      Methinks the Murph that is indeed the Smurph doth protest too much! 😀

    32. Luigi says:

      It may have started off “shallow”, but he is still digging!

    33. Onwards says:

      For traditional Labour voters in Scotland, the choice is clear now that Nicola has said she will help to get Miliband elected.

      Labour, or ‘Labour with benefits’

      A Labour government forced to cut back on austerity and deliver more powers for Scotland.

      Perhaps this could hurt the SNP in a few SNP/Tory marginal seats, but the Labour seats are where the numbers are.

    34. Lollysmum says:

      Here’s one commentator take on Murphy’s performance:

      http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/04/08/scottish-leaders-debate-jim-murphy-has-damaged-labour-s-chan

      🙂 🙂

    35. Proud Cybernat says:

      Murphy: “We’ve voted against all the Tory Queen’s Speeches and we’ll vote against this Tory Queen’s Speech'”

      So, even if the Tories are the largest Party, Labour will vote against the Tory Queen’s Speech as they vote against ALL Tory Queen’s Speeches (i.e. whether the Tories are the largest party in the HoC or not, Labour will vote against them). In short then, the largest party does not always automatically get to form the Government.

      It’s unequivocal. Well done, Jim. Proud of you.

    36. Kes Smith says:

      Is it a reality that westminster mp’s are adverse to the SNP / Scotland’s interests because they wish to protect their own wages + pension.

      I wander what exactly Labour’s Branch Manager in Scotland has in mind for 8th May?

    37. Phronesis says:

      ‘As the divide between the top percentile and everyone else widens, inequality is an issue that will not go away. And as the body of evidence accumulates , a clearer picture is emerging of inequality and its relation to health, self-worth, the ability to participate in society and to take control of one’s life. Knowledge, as the say, is power- especially in the hands of the 99 per cent of the population.'(Editorial, New Scientist, 2012)
      …embodied in the YES movement that is about to cause a seismic shift in the political landscape

    38. Kenny says:

      “That seems to be a pretty clear and unequivocal statement – Labour will vote against any Queen’s Speech from the Tories… That’s from Jim Murphy’s own mouth. The lie is dead. Anyone still got any questions?”

      The only problem is that Jim Murphy makes up Labour strategy as he goes along. And he is only a branch manager of a unionist party. And when did Labour ever keep an election promise?

      Vote against a Queen’s Speech made by a fellow Tory party when the union is in danger and the alternative is letting close to power a party of the people, committed to doing away with Trident, House of Lords, austerity (and do not forget austerity is not there as an economic policy; it is just a stick for Etonians to beat the poor)…?

      Aye, that’ll be the day!

      But I do agree it puts to rest the whole “only way to stop the Blue Tories forming the next government was for the Red Tories to be the biggest party” guff that the Murph has been repeating ad nauseam for months on end now.

      Personally, I would rather see three blocks at Westminster. Two Tory blocks and one anti-austerity block of SNP+PC+Green+SDLP… who would support Red Tories on a case-by-case basis, but still make them suffer death from a thousand cuts (no, not those cuts, I’m not talking Cameron cuts).

      The SNP are too clever, I hope, to fall into the trap of tying their colours to a Labour Party in power. They need to use the next five years in WM to start spreading SNP ideas in England (after the debates one of Google’s top ten search options was “I’m from England, how can I vote SNP?”). That way, we can leave this corrupt and disgusting union — and make life better in England for the English as well.

    39. Luigi says:

      Its no great surprise, I suppose, that the London MSM are trying desperately to engineer a Tory win UK and a Labour win Scotland. What baffles me, however, is that Labour are playing along with this. They have everything to lose, and yet they continue to let a right wing tory MSM set the agenda. Why why why?

      For goodness sake, Ed, its not the electricity companies you have to stand up to, its not even the bankers or mansion owners, its the newspapers you bloody fool!

    40. Clootie says:

      mmmm!

      The lie is dead but I get Miliband. If I don’t take Miliband I get Cameron.

      I’ll settle for Labour caught lying again!

      40+ SNP MP’s would cheer me up though! 🙂 🙂

    41. Alastair says:

      The First Minister has him completely sussed and if she perseveres Mr Angry looks close to delivering a Pete Wishart moment.

      ps See Cameron is now fingering Carmichael in the Independent.
      (no innuendo please children)
      OOOO misses – Carry on Politics.

    42. Lesley-Anne says:

      orri says:

      This is good for a laugh,

      https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre

      56 seats won by the SNP.

      Survivors elsewhere,

      Alistair Carmichael (LD), Willie Bain (Lab) and David Mundell (Con)

      Take with a huge pinch of salt.

      Labour would, according to this, have 275 seats to 264.

      In fairness to YouGov Orri they actually have Fluffy’s seat down as too close to call. DG12 is one of the postcodes in his *ahem* former constituency. 😀

    43. Capella says:

      “Labour have voted against every Tory Queen’s speech and we’ll vote against this Queen’s speech”, said Jim Murphy.
      So Ed Miliband will be the next Prime Minister.
      Congratulations Ed. Try to look a bit more excited at the prospect.

    44. Wayne says:

      Totally agree with @Rob_Outram! The real point here is what line the Tories and their home counties bedfellows (the Daily Fail, Torygraph etc.) take post-election day. Their thrust will be simple, that they were the largest party (they will be in terms of votes I am certain) and therefore they have the democratic/quasi-constitutional right to form the government. All the bleating about the SNP and demonisation of Sturgeon is simply to prepare the ground for the all-out assault there will be on the Scots in general should it be the case that the SNP could tilt things the other way. And who, really, are Labour to argue otherwise? After all haven’t we heard time and time again from them that the largest party forms the government? As has been mentioned this absurd and intellectually moribund tactic will come back to undermine them again and again.

      Incidentally, due to the fixed term parliament Act it is not that easy any more to call a speedy general election should there be (as seems likely) nothing short of constitutional and political armageddon post election night.

      Whatever happens Labour will be weaker as a result, and the SNP far stronger, at least in Scotland. For those of us for whom this is merely a minor pit-stop en route to independence at some future (but not too distant) point all of this is to be welcomed. Scots will see once and for all in the clearest terms how they are second-rate citizens in the Westminster system and how little their democratic wishes matter against the machinations of the business elite who would prefer a Tory government, would tolerate a Labour one, but would be apoplectic about any left-wing drift in government policy ushered in by any sort of political pact with Labour.

      Interesting times indeed…

    45. Wayne says:

      sorry, I meant pact with SNP of course…!

    46. Kenny says:

      Luigi says: “Its no great surprise, I suppose, that the London MSM are trying desperately to engineer a Tory win UK and a Labour win Scotland. What baffles me, however, is that Labour are playing along with this. They have everything to lose, and yet they continue to let a right wing tory MSM set the agenda. Why why why?”

      I know. Anyone would think the whole “Red Team versus Blue Team” stuff on the telly and print media is just a bread-and-circuses charade and our whole “democracy” is a sham.

      Oh, wait…

      I think you have answered your own question, Luigi!

    47. Casper1066 says:

      So lets ask the Labour party and get the news out there. Labour will vote down ANY Tory queens speech….Murphy said on live TV…

    48. BrianW says:

      Unlike the brilliant film by the same name, where they hastily dig there woodland tomb, Labours Shallow Grave has been getting dug form some time now. The Party’s Death in Scotland is slowly closer and closer day by day, and they are teetering on the edge of their earthy pit.

      Got forbid we see the shot of Jim naked on a bed with a Suitcase full of Dodgy Canvassing Leaflets with Lies for bullet points. Thing is, his Labour colleagues in arms would sooner bury the leaflets than Jim.

      I do like how they’ve got themselves in a right tizz over this support us to keep Cameron Out question.

      If they don’t support the suggestion form the SNP then it can only be that they are prepared to let Dave (and rich pals) back into Number 10. It also makes a mockery of the idea to Vote Labour to Keep the Tories out – what only Labour will keep the Tories out, that’s the only solution?

      Well hang on, some one is offering you the very proposition to keep the Tories out of Number 10 on a plate and you evade it at every turn.

      Keep digging guys. Every lie and failure to answer a simple question results in another spade full of earth being dug from the rich soil.

    49. Mac says:

      gus1940 is correct in what he says “the game is up…” which is why the latest series of debates are just another stepping stone toward our aim of an independent Scotland.

      John Drummond summarises the point in a clear and articulate manner stating that the westminster has and continues to back themselves into a corner. The reasons are too numerous to mention but suffice to say it will now be a protracted and long drawn out affair.

      http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3423955

      The link above is in the aftermath of the independence result and already only 6 months on the words spoken are ringing true.

      Then today no less, Irving Welsh writes an excellent item in Bella Caledonia which supports the fact that the Westminster establishment are spinning out of control.

      http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/08/engerland-swings-like-a-pendulum-do/

      Either way the point is simple…”Should Scotland be an independent country?” it is not a question of if…but a question of when.

    50. Luigi says:

      If Ed does not face down the London MSM in the next few days, he is finished. If he is waiting to see how the electoral landscape looks on May 9th, it will be too late by then. The MSM are already preparing the ground to drive a right-wing agenda.

      Ever since the infamous “It was the Sun wot won it” (it wasn’t actually), Labour have been terrified of the tory press and have pussy-footed around like the left-right-left again like the pathetic Lib Dems. Hell Ed, you have nothing to lose, and if you are too afraid to face up to them, they will destroy you anyway. Take them on, before it’s too late.

    51. Jim says:

      @gus1940
      I agree with the comments above that it is now looking that a Government Of National Unity is a distinct possibility – but that is an even more Win Win Situation for Independence as it will administer the final death thrust to Labour’s Scottish Accounting Unit.
      _____________
      I agree, if that happens then the final nail of the UK coffin will have been driven

      _____________
      @Pam McMahon

      Although going by last night’s audience “I was undecided, but you’ve convinced me to vote Labour, Jim” why would anybody think we have any political nous at all?
      _____________
      She made her mind up on the basis of one question, surely a plant, If not then I am sure she is not indicative of your average undecided voter.
      I imagined Murphy to shout, “The milky bars are on me”.

    52. Lesley-Anne says:

      “Labour have voted against every Tory Queen’s speech and we’ll vote against this Queen’s speech”, said Jim Murphy.

      So there we have it folks. We could not have been given a clearer answer to the question “Who is going to win the election on May 7th?”

      From Murph the Smurph’s response it will obviously be the Tories that win on May 7th. What other possible excuse could the Smurph have for saying what he said. Labour KNOW they have lost the election and David Cameron will get the first shot at trying to form a government.

    53. HandandShrimp says:

      It did appear that Jim’s fall back position is the Bain principle “we don’t want your help”

      Labour has learned nothing under his short leadership.

      I think some of his promises last night might have had Ed Ball’s eye out on stalks too.

    54. Pablo says:

      Win win for SNP

    55. Valerie says:

      Frankie Boyle on Spud

      A guy with the air of a harrassed PE teacher. The guy is so out of depth, he should be turning up to work on an inflatable banana.

    56. Kes says:

      @Kenny agree totally.
      @Alastair yes we almost saw a Pete Wishart moment as he rounded on Nicola. Jim Murphy is Mr Angry. That’s some temper and it was naked for all to see.

    57. Ian says:

      They are still pushing the ‘largest party’ line – email from ‘Margaret Curran’, complete with faked-up video of the SNPs delight at seeing a Cameron re-enter Downing Street on 8th May.

      http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/m/668555ce/50e0ca80/3f1dd6b8/395260c6/595318530/VEsE/

    58. Jim says:

      I don’t get it; Patrick Harvie, who is, the leader of the Scottish Green party didn’t get to take part in the leaders debate on STV yet that racist Coburn guy who is just an MEP and not a party leader gets to take part in the BBC leaders debate, what gives?
      Coburn has no place in politics and should be sacked, not given a platform on the BBC.

    59. Jim Condie says:

      What is Labour’s Plan B, Jim? I think we should be told.

    60. Marie clark says:

      Is Labour daft or is it perhaps me? Vote SNP get Tory is oot the windae now. Michael Gove wants us all to vote Labour in Scotland and Tory in England and keep it all nice and cosy.

      Labour will not answer Nicola’s question about SNP helping Labour to keep the Tories out, and make Ed Milliband PM.

      All this talk of a National government to keep SNP out of any say in anything to do with the UK. How do they think that is going to work.

      A lot of Labour in Scotland’s problems now, are to do with being hand in glove with the Tories in the Referendum. That act in itself turned a lot of their own voters away from the party, so why do thy think that the way they are now behaving towards the electorate will improve their chances.

      The loved us and wanted us to stay, and now as we are about to use our democratic right to return MP’s who will represent Scotlands interests, we can all GTF.

      It fair maks yer heid birl a’ this shite.

    61. Mealer says:

      I’m not quite so sure.If Cameron can’t get a Queens speech through,the Queen will ask MrMilliband to form a government.What if Mr Milliband says “sorry,but I can’t form a government without help from the filthy seperatist Scotch scum and I won’t work with them.”?

    62. DerekM says:

      ooof,poor Jim he really is hopeless.

      Yep bring on which ever of them it is i dont care blue or red tory we will have a piece of them in westminster,one of them has got to be PM ,which ever will have us breathing down his neck 🙂

    63. Telephone call to Labour HQ in Londonshire, this morning…

      “Good morning, Labour Party, how can I help you? ”

      I resisted the temptation to say ” roll over and die” and simply asked..

      “Last night on the STV debate, Jim Murphy said Labour would raise the minimum wage to £8.50 per hour. Previously, I had thought the pledge was to raise it to £8.00. Can you clarify what the policy amount is, or will it be 50p more, north of the border?”

      – Delay: sound of consultation and paper shuffling –

      “It will be £8.00”

      “Across the UK?”

      “Yes”

      “Is that an admission Mr Murphy lied to the Scottish electorate on live TV?”

      “No, he made an honest mistake”

      “Will you be issuing a press statement to rectify that misleading mistake?”

      “No” Click, BBBBrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr……

      That’ll be winning hearts and minds! Never even got to my next question about where Jim got his pointy red shoes!

      The lie is dead, replaced by an honest mistake.

      ps

      Do you know the last time a senior male politician wore pointy red shoes? Do you? Well I’ll tell you… it was 1924… 1924. That’s before women had the vote. I mean.. c’mon. Everybody knows that in every election since then, the pointiest shoe wearer get to form the government.

    64. Kenny Campbell says:

      All joking aside a coalition of Labour/Tory is not out of the question at all, it must be a clear possibility. The Union must under all circumstances be retained. Power must also be retained and if the votes give us Hung parliament 2 . Then they need to adjust their strategy.

      As far as I can see the SNP have not yet been corrupted enough to be part of the deal. Although each parliamentary term in Westminster with a lot of MP’s will weaken their progressiveness.

      A national government of Lab/Tory for financial security or unity or whatever nonsense they make up is in my mind wholly possible.

      They have a coalition of Conservative and “Socialists” today in Germany. I was challenged this week by a ‘big voice’/Labourite writer in the Labour camp that Labour are not a socialist party . Except for some small toe dipping in 80’s…..Those in the party are ready to accept it.

      Its there, they just need to make up an excuse.

    65. H Scott says:

      In two hours of debate not a single mention of the further devolution to be steered through the next Westminster parliament.

    66. Connor McEwen says:

      I see the Independent Online has well and truly jumped back into the Unionist bandwagon with its misreporting of the debate

    67. Louis B Argyll says:

      We need Independence asap. So that BBC staff spend their time fulfilling their job descriptions.
      Instead of FINE TUNING THEIR EDITING SKILLS TO MAKE OUT THAT A ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR NICOLA WAS ACTUALLY FOR (A SMILING) MURPHY.
      Very clever technicians, complicit, under orders.
      Lets hope they can forge P45 s for their bosses come judgment day..Dreddful.

    68. gordoz says:

      Aberdeen debate tonight.

      If anybody is going – please do one of the following.

      A. Ask Murphy to stop sneering and talking over people (As Nicola was accused of when she hadn’t)

      B. Ask Murphy to clarify his position re MP or MSP

      C. Ask Murphy about ‘National Government’ coalition with the Tories as he shows no signs of working with SNP

    69. aranciaca says:

      Mealer says

      What if Mr Milliband says “sorry,but I can’t form a government without help from the filthy seperatist Scotch scum and I won’t work with them.”?

      —–
      Then the Queen points out that her First Minister in Scotland has assured her that SNP MPs will not vote against a Queen’s Speech that does most of what her wannabe PM wants, so would he please get down on his knees and kiss hands.

    70. Grizzle McPuss says:

      A controversial thing for me to say, but I personally don’t think Ed Nasel-band is fit and proper for the office of Prime Minister.

      As we all know; he’s not spontaneous (ie he gives the impression of not being his own person, more an Advisors pre-programmed mouth-piece) he generally lacks political presence and has allowed his party to continue to be moulded into a mere poor copy of the present Tory Party.

      Need one say more about a Labour Party that has already declared an interest in following the proposed austerity budget of the Tories…as approved by Balls-up and you would assume nodded through by Ed.

      Note: Mr Balls may want to move the £30bn goal posts, but the ‘ball’ is still going in the same direction.

      So, dilemma.

      I’ll wash my mouth out after saying this; Ruth had me nodding last night in reluctant agreement when she asked about the logic of Nicola putting a perceived weak Ed into number 10.

      Some may ask why I raise this issue?

      Well I answer that just as Scotland needs a strong leader to defend the interests of the Scottish electorate, any country and its political system that we most closely interact with must also have a strong and resilient leadership.

      While still a part of the UK, whatever Ed does will have repercussions on all the constituent parts of this relationship.

      Has anyone yet been able to say in true confidence (from a Scottish SNP perspective) “Ed, now there’s a man we can do business with”?

      So again, dilemma…Hobson’s Choice, and Ed it is.

    71. Barry says:

      Jim seems like an empty vacuum. Wullie’s like a burst couch.

    72. Proud Cybernat says:

      So Jim’s next retort:

      “Yes, Nicola, Labour has always voted against Tory Queen’s Speeches and will continue to do so. But tell me, Nicola, when was the last time Labour successfully voted down a Queen’s Speech when the Tories were the largest party?”

      You heard it here first.

    73. galamcennalath says:

      Lesley-Anne says:

      “https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre

      56 seats won by the SNP.

      Labour would, according to this, have 275 seats to 264.”

      That’s their ‘nowcast’. Their ‘forecast’ says …

      SNP 35
      Con 297
      Lab 262

      I like the sound of the first better. Why do they think their current figures are wrong, and the end result will be so different?

      Beats me!

    74. Dr Jim says:

      The constant Referendum question

      Overwhelmingly and not just by a few percentage points the people of Scotland reject the idea of anything to do with the Conservatives

      So why then does Ruth Davidson continue to argue for something Scotland clearly doesn’t want and the answer can’t be that Politics is temporary Independence is permanent
      because in saying that you’re only argument is a change of power but no change in Ideology

      In essence the total Unionist argument is

      Geez a better Joab fur a wee whiley
      We’ll change we really wull honest…

      So, First Minister, we know you don’t read Wings over Scotland…wink wink but if somebody should glance at this and just happen to mention it to you, (by accident you understand)

      Stick it to them!!!

    75. Joemcg says:

      Has anyone checked if Labour HAVE voted against every Tory queens speech? Remember it’s Murphy we are talking about here.

    76. Ali says:

      The problem could be that Labour perform so badly in rUK that it becomes a moot point. A definitive statement that they will work with the SNP could lose them more English seats and the SNP and Labour MPs could find themselves glowering at each other on the opposition benches. England is where Labour are losing this election. Whatever they say that appeals to one side of the border damages their chances on other side. The Tories, on the other hand, have nothing to lose.

    77. Socrates MacSporran says:

      AS I was saying, before my computer threw a wobbler and posted before I was finished.

      I seem to remember, after the 2010 election, a proposed Lab-Lib coalition fell through, because the Labour Prty would not accept the Lib-Dems’ price for their support – that Gordon Brown stood down and was not part of the Lab-Lib government.

      I reckon, if Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP was to tell Ed Miliband: “Yes, we will support you on an issue by issue basis, but, only if you dump Jim Murphy”, Ed would bite their hand off to accept it.

      Big Dim Jim is a dead man walking – the leader who lost Labour Scotland.

    78. Marie clark says:

      Socrates, that is always assuming Dim Jim survives the election.

    79. jimogroats says:

      Today’s libdem leaflet in the post has a picture of Carmichael wearing protective clothing and fingering something !

    80. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Rev Ur you starting ah crowdfund fur a widden Pine Box fur the Lie, or can it jist get added to Campaining expences.

    81. Jack Murphy says:

      “Ed Balls has confirmed Labour is planning to make cuts to public spending, after Jim Murphy cited analysis which suggested no reductions would be necessary after 2016!!!!

      https://www.politicshome.com/…/balls-rejects-no-cuts…

    82. desimond says:

      I hope someone asks tonights Panel

      “As Scotlands leaders..what have you personally contributed to your psrties new manifesto to help Scotland?”

    83. manandboy says:

      Scotland’s Unionists – collateral damage as London sucks in
      ever more of Scotland’s wealth.

      I wonder if it has dawned on Scotland’s hard-line Unionist population,
      that the Westminster Unionist Leaders, including Her Majesty,
      will willingly sacrifice them
      in order to secure Scotland’s untold wealth for the Union-
      or at least, that part of the Union which is SE England and London.

      For with low growth forecast by the IMF for the forseeable future,
      long-term austerity is all that’s on offer to the ordinary citizen.

      George Osborne’s talk of a ‘Recovery’ is just a huge LIE.

      There will be NO RECOVERY for the UK –
      apart from London and the South East.

    84. Anne Lawrie says:

      Let’s cut to the chase here. Ed has not ruled out working with the SNP. He’ll do anything to be Prime Minister. The smurph doesn’t want to admit this. Of course he doesn’t. How can the smurph condone voting SNP when it means he’ll probably lose his place at the WM trough? Jim’s number one priority is JIM. If he loses his seat, he’ll also lose the branch manager position in Scotland. What will become of him? He’ll have to wait a whole year before he can become first minister of Scotland – as he’s predicted! He he he…..

    85. manandboy says:

      Better Together – the politics of a Sham Union

      And with an ever increasing volume of dis-satisfaction
      rising from Britain’s working classes,
      the wealthy rulers of the UK will only spend more and more
      tax-payers money on protecting themselves
      from the threat of social disorder and revolt.

      If you think that won’t happen in Britain,
      just ask yourself – ‘how much more of a drop
      in living standards are the masses going to put up with
      while they watch the mega rich in London
      pile up tax-payers money in their Swiss bank accounts.’

      Both Scotland’s unflinchingly loyal
      Catholic & Protestant Labour voters,
      together with the legions of Ibrox-leaning unionists,
      will be dumped overboard,
      to drown in an ocean of austerity
      as the wealthy Establishment
      retreat into their private lands in the South-East & London.

      The truth is that the sham-politics of Unionism is almost over
      as the rich become interested only in protecting
      what they have removed from the Public Purse.

      The Union was only ever about money to the English,
      much more so since the discovery
      of Oil & Gas in the N Sea in 1970.

      The poor are only poor ‘cos they never figured out
      how the rich always ended up with their money.

      Well now they have a chance in GE15 to fight back.

      Vote SNP. Join SNP.

      Support Nicola.

    86. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Jim Murphy was lying all the time then.

      Jings! That’s a shocker. 😉

    87. almannysbunnet says:

      @Donald Urquhart says:
      8 April, 2015 at 2:33 pm
      Yep….
      Donald I read it this morning. The Irvine Welsh piece is absolutely fascinating. “The break up of the Britain started a long time ago and not by the SNP.” “Thatcher once memorably stated: never forget that I am an English nationalist.” It should be required reading for every Scottish tory and every No voter.
      http://tinyurl.com/n63gf4b

    88. JLT says:

      LOL …Poor Jim …what does he not get! Come May the 8th, and if the results lead to a hung parliament, with the Tories just marginally ahead in seats, then Murphy will be batted to the side by none other than Ed Miliband himself.

      In what universe is Ed Miliband going to turn down the chance of power. His reputation rides on one decision; Yes or No with the SNP. If he says No, then his reputation is immediately trashed as the ‘man who bottled it’. If he does say Yes, then fair do’s, he may upset the English electorate, but he knows he has 5 years to win them back over; especially if he gets his policies right and gives the people such things as free tuition and keeping the NHS in public hands. In that sense, he could be deemed a very good Prime Minister if he plays it right.

      If such an arrangement comes to pass, it will be interesting to see how a Murphy-Miliband relationship will endure over time (that is if Murphy retains his seat). Both are at odds with each other. Would Ed want Scottish Labour to remove Murphy in a bid to save the party. I just can’t see Murphy being allowed to stay in a post Labour-SNP world. The more Murphy riles the Scottish nation, then there will be no chance of redemption for Scottish Labour. Personally, something has to give …or go. And I can see it being our Jim. Ed needs to rescue the party north of the border. If he wants to retain the Union, then Scottish Labour need to be rescued.

      My …what strange and exciting times we live in!

    89. jackie g says:

      jimogroats says:@ 2:47 pm

      Today’s libdem leaflet in the post has a picture of Carmichael wearing protective clothing and fingering something!

      My fav line yesterady was from the Wee ginger dug: 🙂

      Carmichael looks suspiciously like the scary janitor from scooby doo yikes..priceless

      🙂

    90. frogesque says:

      heedtracker says:
      8 April, 2015 at 12:55 pm
      Is it really likely that Con PM Cameron and Lab deputy PM Milliband stand next to each other at podiums, in that No.10 Rose Garden, joshing and being serious and joshing and so on?

      Creepy Morphy probably wont get a cabinet seat, Scottish office Minster maybe. We’d just to have like it or lump it. BBC, Daily Record etc would sell it very hard.

      I know it’s a technicality and Jim the Dim doesn’t ‘do’ technical, but;

      say it quietly folks, first he has to be ELECTED!

    91. think again says:

      Jim has spoken, in as much as a recently appointed, out of favour with the boss, Branch Manager can speak for the company.

      He also said Labour in Scotland would not only hold onto their seats but make gains. He also said he was not a unionist. Jim has spoken, or has he?

      Grand coalition not ruled out because it would be a coalition Queen`s Speech, not a Tory one.

    92. Patrick Roden says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      Murphy: “We’ve voted against all the Tory Queen’s Speeches and we’ll vote against this Tory Queen’s Speech’”

      So can we be clear, that after being put under considerable pressure by Nicola Sturgeon, Jim Murphy has conceded that it’s the Tories who are likely to be the biggest party after the General Election?

    93. jackie g says:

      O/T

      I have just seen some election coverage of Menzies Campbell who states the following regarding last nights debate.

      Willie Rennie was the voice of common sense and good judgement 🙂

      Brilliant best laugh of the day 🙂

    94. Papadox says:

      Inverclyde. Just had our local Cooncil leader (labour) at door. After telling him SNP got a wee smile a thumbs up and a thanks very much. Exit stage left at pace. In my 68 years this is the first time I have had a Labour Party member at my door. In Greenock! Think they are worried, very worried. THE COONCIL LEADER, wonder where the plebs are?

    95. Lesley-Anne says:

      galamcennalath says:

      I like the sound of the first better. Why do they think their current figures are wrong, and the end result will be so different?

      Beats me!

      I’m with you on that one galmcennalath. The first one definitely fits the bill for me. I’m thinking they don’t have the courage of their convictions unlike a certain part of the U.K. to call it as they see it … S.N.P. winning 56 seats. 😉

      I can only assume that they have not been in this game of having a belief in something as long as we have. 😀

    96. heedtracker says:

      Willie Rennie was the voice of common sense and good judgement

      Well compared to Paddy “vote SNP and its the Balkanisation of teamGB” Pantsdown, Wullie probably does sound like the voice of reason. Unionistas like Pantsdown are getting so over excited, maybe am mixing up BTL and twitter unionist nuts with actual real world politicos.

      By tweeting unionist nuts I mean oor Duncan Hothersall, ofcoure:D

    97. Luigi says:

      Apparently, the Malcolm Bruce (Lib Dem, Gordon) has been calling our first minister: Nicola Mugabe (deleted tweet):

      http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-seemingly-illiberal-democrat.html

      What a nasty little man. Nothing like a bit of pressure for revealing one’s true character, eh? They are all coming out of the woodwork now.

    98. Davy says:

      Ok getting Jim Murphy to say he would vote against a tory queens speech was like pulling teeth, and the lassie that said she would now vote labour after listening to Jim Murphy must think we are all buttoned up the back of the neck to believe that.

      But what I’m confused about is this £1600 he is promising to all 16 – 17 yearolds if they leave school without a job or further education/training.

      Is this for only youths in Scotland, and if so what the fuck is the young people of the rest of the UK going to say ?

      And this being a UK general election where does this give him the power to authorise such payments in Scotland?

      And is he just going to handout £1600 willy nilly, is their any controls on this tax-payers money. Because if I was thinking of going on to futher education and their was a chance to get a free £1600 quid to waste as I feel like, I may decied to delay my education for a year or so.

      Finally has he changed the age from 16-17 up to 18-19 because I thought I saw that on a poster on the news?

    99. Chris Paton says:

      Keep hammering at him, and you get there in the end. He’s all over the shop, all of the time. He also claimed in the debate that Labour was going to introduce a minimum wage of £8.50, when Labour policy is actually £8. Makey-up-school of Jimboism.

    100. velofello says:

      Labour/SNP government – influence and anti-austerity measures

      Labour/Conservative coalition – UK political crisis in the oven, substantial number of Scots electorate essentially disenfranchised.

      The SNP have the membership numbers to instal vigilance over postal voting and the transit of votes from polling stations.

    101. Big ash says:

      What I found strange about the debate last night, was that it was supposed to be a cross section of the Scottish public. However about 50% of the people who commented appeared to be English. There also seems to be more people living in Scotland with false Moustache’s than there is Black or Asian.

    102. Luigi says:

      The BBC debate should be more interesting, at least, than last night’s debacle.

      Tonight is Murphy’s last stand. Big Jim is desperate and will be in an explosive mood. He will be very shouty and try to interrupt NS at every opportunity. Add to that the presence of the UKIP twat and sparks are sure to fly! A bit of light entertainment is on order. You won’t learn anything. Just relax and enjoy. Better get the popcorn.

      NS will effectively bat off the attacks, but I expect the real star of tonight may be Patrick Harvie. He is still smarting for being excluded from the first debate and he will be in no mood to take prisoners.

      Don’t let me down, Patrick!

    103. ClanDonald says:

      Nah, you’re wrong, Rev, the lie isnae dead because the BBC hasnae said so and that’s all that matters because no-one in Scotland has the internet anyway and Jim Murphy says Labour won’t be making any cuts whatsoever and the minimum wage will be £8.50 and Labour abolished student fees and Jim will personally guarantee the introduction of a living wage and Nicola Sturgeon + David Cameron up a tree and anyone who says otherwise is just a liar so nyahhh.

    104. JGedd says:

      Looking at Murphy in that clip, I found myself idly remembering again a quote from In the Thick of It, about a Labour minister who was performing badly in a TV appearance. It was said, of course, by Malcolm Tucker. “He looks like a horse in a man costume.”

    105. thedogphilosopher says:

      @ luigi

      Yeah, I think Patrick and Nicola make a good team on these occasions, in fact you kinda get a glimpse of what Scotland could be like, freed from WM shackles. Last night was tricky for NS, outnumbered on all sides, giving the impression that the momentum is with the Unionist side rather than the Progressives (anti-austerity/nuclear, pro-Indy).

      We have the Smarts, the Imagination, the Humour, the Honesty.

    106. JLT says:

      Davy

      But what I’m confused about is this £1600 he is promising to all 16 – 17 year olds if they leave school without a job or further education/training.

      Yep, agree with everything you highlighted. This was a major problem with Murphy last night. Again, and again, and again he just opinionated without giving answers.
      – He spouted some drivel to the woman from Aberdeen over oil; but gave no clue as to what Labour would do if in power.
      – He opinionated with the 17 year old about tuition fees; but gave no clue as to what Labour would do if in power.
      – He opinionated about the Health Service; but gave no clue as to what Labour would do if in power.
      – When asked about power sharing with the SNP, he again opinionated; but gave no clue as to what Labour would do if in power …and got a bollocking from Nicola, Ponsonby and the audience. Then we saw glimpses of angry Murphy. The real Murphy when he is finally put on the spot.

      But hopefully, if he raises this drivel about £1600 pounds again in the TV debates that someone finally asks him ‘…so Jim …where is that money coming from? And what safeguards are you putting in place that stops the youngsters buying PS4’s or trips to Ibiza? And how much will those safeguards cost the public in general?’

      Queue ….eyebrows going crazy; a snarl; and furious condemnation that it is all the SNP’s fault!

    107. Wulls says:

      I was always told that when in a hole you should immediately stop digging.

    108. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Papadox @ 3.25pm was wondering why the Labour Leader of Invercylde Council was canvassing round the doors, and where were the plebs.

      I think Labour has only got its “Chiefs” left – the Indians have all either packed-up their wigwams and gone off, or, have joined the SNP.

      I see the (Un)Happy Hunting Grounds calling to the chiefs.

    109. Thepnr says:

      Get your head around this.

      It matters not a jot to the ESTABLISHMENT whether Labour or the Tories form a government after the coming election.

      Big business, the City of London and the House of Lords want everything to remain the same. The SNP though are the fly in the ointment, they want things to change and that simply is the reason for the FEAR.

      Something big has just begun in Scotland, on May 8th things will have changed. Just vote SNP and say “No More” to those that will deny us a voice.

      We, the ordinary voter have them on the run. Let’s show them what democracy means and punish the main parties for their ignoring of democracy.

      The mouse that roared! That is us.

    110. Joemcg says:

      Nicola heckled in Aberdeen by lone unionist nut. He jostled with security whilst shouting “UK OK” and “Sturgeon don’t rip up our flag” oh dear.

    111. thedogphilosopher says:

      I think we did get a few glimpses of the very unstable Crateman last night. One instance was when he came back (eyebrows aquiver) at a guy saying something like ‘so do you want to live there?’, meaning Helensburgh, meaning close to Trident.

      Jim Murphy, our very own 21st Century Schizoid Man.

    112. pussy nancy says:

      Jeez…..£1600 to all 16/17 year olds in Scotland if they leave school without a job/further education?
      They will probably bite his hand off and bugger off to Ibiza for a fortnight!
      Please, somebody wake me up when this is over!

    113. Calgacus says:

      Congratulations Rev.Stu on your comprehensive and persistent debunking of Murphy’s lie.

      Victory is sweet.

    114. peekay says:

      That first sentence should be –

      “After literally months of ‘GETTING AWAY WITH’ telling voters endlessly that the only way to stop the Tories forming the next government was for Labour to be the biggest party”

    115. caz-m says:

      O/T

      The Labour Party announcement about abolishing the Non-Dom tax set-up is falling apart already. They are getting slaughtered from all quarters. Miliband said one thing and Balls contradicted him at a separate interview.

      Everything Labour touches falls to bits within a couple of hours.

      Even Murphy makes Miliband look intelligent.

      And Miliband wants to be our next PM,

      God help us!

    116. Tattie-bogle says:

      Socrates MacSporran

      Willie Bain was chapping doors last week with a single minion no other troops to be seen unless they were round the nursing homes garnering the postals.

    117. Macart says:

      What Thepnr said with knobs on.

      You don’t get many second chances running back to back in life. May 7 people can still make a difference. Don’t leave to a government to define who you are.

      You define your governance.

    118. almannysbunnet says: @ 3:06

      It should be required reading for every Scottish tory and every No voter.

      …. are you sure, there’s a lot of big words in there?

    119. Valerie says:

      I didn’t get that drivel about £1600 for school leavers, and at one point Murphy said they could use it to start a business!

      That’s the kind of crap you say, when you have never had a job in your life I suppose.

      I’d hate to think what kind of business Murphy was referring to.

    120. G4jeepers says:

      Gavin Essler in Aberdeen calling the SNP an insurgent group.

      When in it’s home country are the LibLabCons not the insurgents?

    121. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Wulls

      Hi Hoo Hi Hoo

      the Little Burrier squad went aff tae dig a hole

      They worked aw day fur minimum pay

      ? is that ah hole fur Murphy

      Faster lads dig it deeper

      Hi Hoo Hi Hoo

      We worked aw day withoot nae pay

      Hi Hoo Hi Hoo Hi HoooooooHaHa.

      Three cheers fur the Little Burriers

    122. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr. We NEVER give UP we NEVER give IN & WE DIDNEY.

    123. Macnakamura says:

      Are we playing bingo tonight again?

      If so, put me down for a single line:

      Yes butNo butYes no but but yes but no.

    124. ronnie anderson says:

      @ cazm then WeScots are aw Non Doms,cause we,re not regognized by Westminster (no Dominion)

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @Adrian B says: 8 April, 2015 at 12:35 pm :

      “That clears that up. I wonder what Ed thinks….”

      Aye! Adrian B, and so is Ed wondering what he thinks …

    126. Pam McMahon says:

      Thepnr@4.42pm
      They have the Warfarin laid out now, and all the mouse traps. They will surely have employed somebody in the media to sweep up our wee mangled corpses. End of the roaring mouse infestation?

    127. Free Scotland says:

      As ma auld mither wid say: “That yin wid argue a black craw white.

    128. Lollysmum says:

      Joemcg
      Libby Brooks of the Graun reported that as NS heckled by group of Ukippers-not one. They also put up a very brief bit of film but you can’t actually see anything!

    129. James C says:

      I have listened again to some parts of last night’s debate.

      Jim Murphy was asked at one point about the 50% tax rate. The questioner suggested that if he was paying tax at 50% he would ask for a £1 reduction in his salary and save £6000. He obviously wasn’t aware that the rate would only apply on the top slice of his income. No one corrected the mistake. Does this mean that Jim Murphy doesn’t understand how tax works?

      A further questioner suggested that the removal of the Trident base would, inter alia, ‘destroy the Tourist Industry in the West of Scotland’. Again there was no rebuttal from Jim Murphy. Does he regard Faslane as a tourist attraction?

    130. JLT says:

      ThePnr / Macart

      I agree …in theory it should work. The Mouse that roared wins!

      But, I think we should also take note of what Ruth said last night (and I thank her for reminding us of one key fact!). When she got ripped into Murphy, she accused Labour that around 70 odd+ (I can’t remember the actual figure) Labour MP’s employed people on zero-hour / casual labour contracts.

      Now, here’s the rub.

      What happens come the 8th, if it is a hung parliament. Would those Labour MP’s who are nationalistic / Unionist / Millionaires be quite willing to rebel against Miliband and a proposed SNP-Labour coalition (of sorts) and instead, vote the Tories in by recognising them as the main government.

      One could speculate that those who do, could tell their constituents that the hard choice was ‘be ruled by the Scots / or live with a Unionist party; even if it means its the Tories).

      Could a minority Tory government be propped up by a handful of dissident Labour supporters?

      And what does that mean to Scotland? Will the SNP in quiet fury (or glee) watch from the sidelines and ponder quietly about how a Labour betrayal, along with an In-Out EU referendum, finally be the catalyst for all hell breaking loose should the SNP (through its support at conference) clamour for a new referendum.

      Is this a possibility?

    131. Onwards says:

      H Scott says:
      8 April, 2015 at 2:15 pm

      In two hours of debate not a single mention of the further devolution to be steered through the next Westminster parliament.

      Yes, I hope Nicola makes a bigger point about more powers in the debate tonight.

      Most people, including NO voters want that.

      I think people would appreciate her being honest, and saying that an immediate transition to FFA wouldn’t be easy in the current climate, but in the medium term it’s best for Scotland, and we would have a transition period where the Barnett formula is phased out gradually.

      I want independence, but strategically I think it would be wise to say we giving extra devolution a chance first – assuming we can negotiate far more significant powers than the feeble Smith commission proposals.

      Realistically, to win a future referendum we are going to have to wait a few years until enough young voters replace older voters.

    132. Fiona says:


      Marie clark says:
      8 April, 2015 at 2:03 pm

      […]

      All this talk of a National government to keep SNP out of any say in anything to do with the UK. How do they think that is going to work.

      A lot of Labour in Scotland’s problems now, are to do with being hand in glove with the Tories in the Referendum. That act in itself turned a lot of their own voters away from the party, so why do thy think that the way they are now behaving towards the electorate will improve their chances.

      It fair maks yer heid birl a’ this shite.

      Indeed. That is central to the question of whether they will form a grand coalition. In Scotland they did a dry run, and are seeing the consequences. So now Labour have a choice; will working with the SNP turn off more of their support in rUK than working with the tories?

      Normally all the focus is on the marginal or swing voter: and they may well turn away from labour if they work with SNP. But what is clear in Scotland is that the normal calculation does not apply: because the importance of the marginal depends in its entirety on a large core vote one can take for granted: and they no longer have that in Scotland for precisely the reason that they exposed the lie of difference which that vote depends on.

      Sadly I am not sure if they are politically astute enough to see that. The evidence of Mr “don’t vote against labour out of anger” Murphy suggests not. Westminster leadership does not seem to know how to explain what is happening here (assuming the polls are right) and presumably depend on analyses supplied to them by the Scottish accounting unit: who haven’t a clue.

      Only labour has much to lose here: a party which loses its core vote in this way is a party with no future at all. I do not think that they should presume the same thing cannot happen in rUK as happened in Scotland: because if the polls are correct it just did happen in rUK: to the lib dems.

    133. Fiona says:

      OT

      I have just got another e-mail from the labour party.

      I have written to them twice now to ask them where they got my details and to desist from writing to me. They are taking no notice

      I remember someone here reported them to either the data protection people or to the electoral commission

      Can someone tell me how to do that, again

      I am pissed off about them cluttering up my computer with their rubbish

    134. Helena Brown says:

      Fiona they took me at my word that I did not want to hear from them, I will admit I was rude when I said it. You may prefer the higher ground when dealing with them. I really did not care.

    135. cearc says:

      There’s a tweet on Stu’s twitter saying,

      ‘…tonight’s debate won’t be live as such. There will be a one hour delay between recording and broadcast as BBC worried UKIP’s David Coburn might defame somebody.’

      No idea if it is true but a one hour delay is long enough to completely cut and edit the whole thing.

      Anybody going should record it. An audio recording can be done discreetly.

    136. Lollysmum says:

      Nicola being interviewed by the Economist yesterday. Good interview because she wasn’t constantly being interrupted by the interviewer. Full marks to the Economist 🙂

      http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21647896-scottish-national-party-could-play-decisive-role-formation-britains-next-government?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/vi/britainsmostpowerfulwoman#

    137. Lollysmum says:

      Fiona
      Via Information Commissioner (www.ICO.org.uk)

    138. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      From The Herald. Cameron set to block future IndyRef:

      Just hours after SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon gave her strongest signal yet that there could be a commitment to a second referendum in her party’s 2016 Holyrood manifesto, Mr Cameron was asked if he thought there would be another poll.

      He replied: “I believe it’s settled. I quote Alex Salmond, ‘settled for a generation, possibly for a lifetime,’ is what he said. And I’m sticking with that. There was a very big debate in Scotland, a very big moment, a very big turnout. But it was pretty decisive, a ten-point margin is pretty decisive.”

      Asked, if Ms Sturgeon were to put a referendum pledge in her party’s Holyrood manifesto for 2016, would he be tempted to say he was not duty-bound by that, even if the SNP won, Mr Cameron replied: “That issue is settled.”

    139. Crash says:

      It would appear that David Cameron’ photo-ops are a bit of an illusion.

      Front page on Reddit

      http://imgur.com/ZeDjVC7

    140. Mealer says:

      When Nicola addresses me as “friend” I know she is my friend because she bled with me in September.She is my comrade and my sister and my friend.Thats how I feel anyway.Jim Murphy is nothing to me.There is nothing he can say or do to change that.

    141. Joemcg says:

      Proud-Britains supposedly a democracy though eh? Plus he has misquoted Salmond yet again the quote ended with him saying it was his personal opinion.Not like a unionist to be economical with the truth.

    142. shiregirl says:

      Hi Fiona
      I would contact the information commissioner (www.ico.org.uk) as they are only allowed to make email contact when you have consented/opted in to being contacted.
      If processing your information doesn’t meet the eight principles of the data protection act, then get’on tae them as they are havin’ a go.

    143. HandandShrimp says:

      Does it matter what Cameron thinks is settled. He won’t be around in 5 years time?

    144. Papadox says:

      IMHO
      Should labour go into a grand coalition with the TORIES openly (or sleekit behind the scenes) then SLAB will be finished EXTINCT! GONE JUST A BAD MEMORY. RIP.

    145. Colin Church says:

      Radio BBC in Scotland again on evening slot – Murphy only one to speak his own words directly to listeners with empty soundbites / dog whistles for the hard of thinking (devolved issues / stolen SNP policies) and all other parties are paraphrased by presenter. They really are taking the proverbial.

      It really does feel good to be redistributing several years of license fees to Wings, WGD, SNP Candidates (hi Phil, Mhairi and Danus)

    146. HandandShrimp says:

      6 speakers and only 1 hour. This one will be a bit of a gallop. Especially if Coburn goes off on one and has everyone shooting squirrels.

      James Cook is moderator…will he have a Kate Adie flak jacket 😉 (Actually he might be OK at this – will reserve judgement)

    147. Colin Church says:

      @ Crash
      Ditto Murphy, Broon, any SLAB event and any previous BBC coverage of a BT event…

      You know hwn you see Alec or Nicola get mobbed with hugs the it is the reverse.

    148. manandboy says:

      I’d love to be proved wrong, but . . .

      For the Aberdeen show the BBC will have had a wee chat
      and a wink with each of the four Unionist speakers,
      and even before the show starts, Nicola will be feeling
      the unfriendly vibes and the Unionist atmosphere.

      The BBC itself will try to minimise Nicola’s opportunities
      to get her message across – by, as often as possible,
      interrupting her – (Cooke + any of the four unionists.)

      by diverting her onto devolution subjects
      which have nothing to do with GE15

      by the camera switching to something else while she’s speaking,
      thereby interrupting the viewers’ concentration
      on what she’s saying.

      by placing her between Murphy & Coburn – I’d put a large bet on that – to physically intimidate her with aggressive body language.

      Allowing the four U’s more time when speaking,
      especially Miss 1800 votes, Ruth Davidson & Jim Murphy.

      This all applies to Patrick too. I don’t expect him to be treated well.

      The audience will be hostile to Nicola
      with BBC composed awkward questions given to ‘placemen’.

      In general, the BBC will try every trick in the book
      to upset and harass Nicola and put her off her game.

      This is going to be a hostile, Unionist, BBC stage-managed
      attack on Nicola.

      How could it possibly be anything else?

    149. Thepnr says:

      In less than a month we will once again be back in the polling booth. Do you remember the last time you were there?

      Vividly you say 🙂

      Well never forget it, I don’t want to suffer that pain ever again. As for the pain that is coming without the SNP, let’s not even go there.

    150. heedtracker says:

      Its going to be fun to see if they changed creepy Morphy’s meds after whatever the hell he was doing last night. His memory was all over the place, he thought he was funny but his gags made absolutely no sense, he raged at the women in the panel, he looked both terrify and terrified, then probably passed out in his chauffeur driven limo up to Aberdeen. All very odd for a nutter that roared his head off at bemused passers by on his 100 towns vote NO or else 2014 tour.

      Tranquillisers, anti anxiety pills, apparently St John’s Wart’s great for freaks out like he had last night.

      Come on creepy Morphy, England expects.

    151. ian says:

      2 Points from the debate
      Jim Murphy says that Labour will provide 1600 pounds for ever school leaver to assist them getting a job.Is this part of the Labour UK manifesto and has it been costed out?

      If Labour vote against the queens speech and the SNP do as well ultimately we would be force into another election and Labour would be too skint to run an effective campaign and they would hand a majority over to the Tories

    152. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Mhairi Black SNP Appearance on BBC Newsbeat Election Debates.

      https://twitter.com/mhairi1921/status/585845550131650560

    153. JLT says:

      He replied: “I believe it’s settled. I quote Alex Salmond, ‘settled for a generation, possibly for a lifetime,’ is what he said. And I’m sticking with that

      I would think that with Alex Salmond’s resignation, and the theory that no future government (or Main Minister) could be bound by ‘promises’ of the previous incumbent, would therefore (…and I speculate at this point) make any ‘settled’ outcome as null and void.

      Possibly with the Union’s glee at seeing Alex resign, they may have taken their eye off the ball on this one, and didn’t realise that they just wiped the slate for Nicola.

      Plus …if Cameron, or any future Tory Prime Minister would like to tell the Scottish people that their desire to debate their own sovereignty, is definitely not on, then I think his own arrogance is deluding him. Westminster does not get to dictate to the Scots; an equal in this Union, as to what they can, or can’t do when it comes to sovereignty. We are not the Falkland Islands.

      But let’s see what happens when the Scottish Parliament with the will of the people behind it, decide that there will be a referendum. What will the UK PM do? My guess is …Sweet FA unless he really does want to stir a hornet’s nest in Scotland.

    154. gordoz says:

      Papadox:

      Aye right enough – clocked Labour out in force on Saturday MSP & MP with mobile student contingent (8 in total).
      SNP stall across the street 2 guys talking with folk doing quite well. Watched Labour – folk took leaflets and dumped in bin further down St, says a lot really about Labour heartlands.

    155. heedtracker says:

      manandboy says:
      8 April, 2015 at 7:10 pm
      I’d love to be proved wrong, but .

      Last night Ponsoby extracted creepy Morphy from a complete car crash of a debaters response to Sturgeon’s “will you deal with SNP MP’s if polls hold creepy Jim?”

      It was probably the most disgraceful display of bias by a chairchoob since the last time they bailed out a floundering unionist buffoon, a few minutes before.

      Maybe when Ponsonby writes his memoires, “Nicola Sturgeon, my part in her downfall” he’ll do us the honour of explaining why he did actually save creepy Jim like that as its probably not actually in a chairperson’s remit. Maybe producer in Ponsonby ear going get him out of their Ponsonby. (Sorry cant remember that shills first name.)

    156. manandboy says:

      Aberdeen show to be recorded and shown one hour later
      lest Coburn offends someone.

      Not buying that.

      BBC editing = cutting out the best Nicola bits
      and then …..cutting out the worst Murphy bits.

    157. gordoz says:

      Proud Cybernat: Cameron’s referendum comment

      Ah the old ‘tug o’ the leash’ from the master eh!

      Get folks to look at their so called ‘Royal coat of arms’; I know its traditional heraldry to record the tethered Unicorn but … still subliminally says a lot about the Scots and the old tugging of the forelock. When the master speaks and all that.

      Whats wrong with people ???

      Always irks me anyway

    158. JLT says:

      Heedtracker

      Tranquillisers, anti anxiety pills, apparently St John’s Wart’s great for freaks out like he had last night.

      You forgot glue.

    159. Fireproofjim says:

      I would love a Grand Coalition Tory/Lab.
      SNP official opposition.
      Followed by Immediate independence.
      I can’t see any other outcome, but it is probably too good to hope for.

    160. Valerie says:

      @Lollysmum and Nana Smith, thank you for those excellent vid links.

      Mhairi Black seems a really passionate and committed young person at 20 years old. Wouldn’t it be great if she succeeds, because young people might follow her lead.

    161. Joemcg says:

      We have got to get the UK governments permission to hold another referendum?! Says it all really. Equal partners and all that.

    162. Fiona says:

      @Lollysmum

      Thanks 🙂

    163. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      “Mr Cameron was asked if he thought there would be another poll ….. “I believe it’s settled.”

      Various things need to happen before IndyRef2 ……. however, Cameron and/or Milliband are central to what happens next. There is year between WM and Holyrood elections. If the Vow as promised ie DevoMax/Home Rule, isn’t delivered in that period, then IndyRef2 will come a lot closer! It’s all in your hands, Camer-illiband!

      How often do these assholes need told that their win was conditional on the delivery of significant powers? Have they not followed the SNP pitch for the GE?

      Or … Maybe they have, and IndyRef2 is already being fought!?

    164. Fiona says:

      @shiregirl

      Thanks to you too

      Sent the complaint to ICO as both you and Lollysmum suggested

    165. Fiona says:

      I see Cameron believes that a referendum is in his gift, not in the hands of the people. Typical of his notion of top down politics

    166. heedtracker says:

      You forgot glue.

      Dont do drugs children. I know nothing at all about cocaine but that STV debate freak out last night looked an awful like someone had had a wee toot.

    167. ronbon says:

      Channel 4 giving Nicola a hard time regarding another referendum. Amazed that she manages to keep so cool despite the onslaught from the pro union media. Hope the Rev has something special lined up to address the balance.

    168. Doug McGregor says:

      Thanks Nana , new rising star Mhari , strength in depth.

      https://twitter.com/mhairi1921/status/585845550131650560

    169. Fiona says:

      Since there will inevitably be another referendum at some point, what do unionist think they are gaining when this is acknowledged? How do they imagine this is some kind of “gotcha”?

      If Ms Sturgeon said there will not be another referendum in my life time, if her party has anything to do with it, I would vote for them this time, but I would be looking for an alternative. I wonder if I am alone? If not I wonder if the unionists understand that position

    170. Ken500 says:

      Labour can’t even give students support. They mean-tested student loans on household income. Working class students of average household incomes could not get support. Labour would rather people were unemployed (£60 a week?) than studying.

      What happened to Home Rule/Full fiscal autonomy/Federalism. Westminster has lied again. Vote NO you get nothing.

    171. Giving Goose says:

      In all the various permutations of what happens after the election; has anyone considered the possibility that a section of the Labour MPs may rebel against Ed should he agree to work with the SNP?

      Think about this. The SNP are against corruption; against the House of Lords. They may pressure to reform Westminster top to bottom; perhaps limit outside and additional jobs for MPs. No directorships, anybody?

      I can honestly see a great many Labour careerists watching potentially lucrative lifestyles going down the swannee turning up their noses at that (Noses that are at home in the trough).

      When you consider that the definition of a Right Wing politician at Westminster equates with nose in the trough careerist then half the Labour Party fall into that category.

      They won’t buy into it and will rebel, effectively siding with the Tories (who are their ideological business partners).

      A Queens speech voted for by the Tory party and a large section of rebel Labour troughers is a very distinct possibility.

    172. Capella says:

      @ Giving Goose
      Then the Labour party would be dead in the water.

    173. Legerwood says:

      The unionists keep going on about another referendum because it was ‘their finest hour’ – they won and know it is the last time they are ever likely to win anything.

      The Westminster system is falling apart – slowly perhaps – but perceptible. None of the Unionist parties will win the election hence their harping back to their glory day.

      Another reason for harping on about it is that they think (or is it know) that they have not got any other weapon (policy) in their arsenal that will be effective against the SNP. Therefore they harp on the referendum because they think it will stop the NO voters voting SNP. It wont because those voters know that this is a GENERAL Election and not an election about having a referendum. Ms Sturgeon pointed that out last night.

      I agree with those above who say that Ms Black is an able young lady. I saw her some weeks ago deal with Michael Crick when he did a piece on her for CH4 news. It was the first time I had seen her and I was impressed.

      No doubt the issue of her age will be brought up by her opponents. The answer to them is quite simple: If young people in their 20s are old enough to fight for their country then they are old enough to have their voices heard in the House that sends them to war.

    174. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      The last time the unionists tried to make an election all about an indy referendum was 2011.

      It didn’t end well for them, to say the least. 😀

    175. Joemcg says:

      Someone on the Scotsman threads claiming Laura Bicker of the BBC saying Nicola got booed when indyref 2 got mentioned in Aberdeen tonight.

    176. Macart says:

      @JLT

      If Labour or Labour rogues voted for any form of coalition with the Conservatives it would spell the end of the union. There would be only one reason this scenario would be brought about and that is to stifle Scotland’s left leaning representation. If Labour in Scotland thinks its having a bad day right now, consider the backlash from the action of the establishment parties forming such an unholy alliance.

      Seriously, after decades of spreading the myth of the Thatcher government being ushered in by the SNP, Labour formally forms an alliance with an even more societally destructive Conservative administration than Thatcher’s? It would be catastrophic. The left and progressives in England, Wales and NI would feel utterly betrayed. In Scotland we’d be left with no doubt about our place as a union partner, the last pretence of UK democracy would be well and truly flushed doon the lavvy.

      Now the blue tories won’t give a shit about fallout in society and they sure as hell wouldn’t care what happens to the Labour vote. But surely Labour themselves see what the future would hold for them after such an act. With the aid of the media and at the height of their own power they dodged responsibility for Callaghan’s downfall, their 34 renegade MPs never getting a mention in their rewritten history. All the media aid on the planet couldn’t prevent massive societal fallout if Labour and the Conservatives form a unity government.

    177. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      “Mr Cameron was asked if he thought there would be another poll ….. “I believe it’s settled.”

      Yeah well Cameron also believed it was a good idea to make his close friend Andy Coulson his chief spindoctor and in less than two weeks he’s up for a Perjury trial in scotland just after his first jail term.

      So I wouldn’t put a great deal of stock in that out of touch tory twit’s judgement.

    178. desimond says:

      Decisions decisions

      A loud spectacle with assorted colourful characters with occasionL scottish references or something childish

      How to train your Dragon2 it is then!

    179. James Barr Gardner says:

      Remember folks it’s part of the unionist nature to go on about things for instance next year it will be 60 years since engaland won the world football cup, Yup, they still go on about it, don’t tell them the Germans have won it 4 times, Yuri Keller said it was something to do with bad vibes from north britain. This year its Azincourt FFS!

    180. Grouse Beater says:

      Cameron is talking bollocks: believe it’s settled. I quote Alex Salmond, ‘settled for a generation, possibly for a lifetime,’ is what he said. And I’m sticking with that.

      Salmond is not a politician to commit the Scottish nation to his disappointment after leading them up the hill.

      Why else would he say, “The dream shall never die”?

    181. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @joemg

      Is the BBC debate not live?

      That will be great then – I wonder if the BBC might edit it every so slightly?

    182. orri says:

      Agincourt didn’t exactly stop France finally kicking out the English. So in a musical mood …

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFj65qkag20

      Or in a slightly cheerier note …

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOZwJdpmdpw

      Which seems to be the mood in Scotland , especially line 3

    183. JLT says:

      Macart

      Oh, I agree with your assessment. Should Labour MP’s decide to prop up a minority Tory government would seriously trigger a serious backlash in Scotland. Hornet’s nest more like!

      But …if you’re a Labour MP for Northampton or Milton Keynes, and couldn’t give a monkeys about the Scots, but have constituents who are growling like **** about the SNP not only dictating to the Labour Party, but England too, then you may decide to follow your constituents wishes (or your own if there’s a personal angle in it).

      But going to the original point …will there be an SNP-Labour coalition (of sorts)? …80-90% possibility in my book. Would never rule this out!

      But at the same time, is it really inconceivable that say …40 Labour MP’s rebel; prop up the Tories and thus create a Tory minority government. When you then look at it, would that mean that Cameron’s lot on one side of the Commons, Ed’s lot in opposition (with the dissidents), and the SNP nowhere.

      Now if that happened, then I agree, Labour are f***ed! Just going with what happened to the Lib Dems after they got into bed with the Tories proves that fact. Ed’s lot will be torn to shreds by the Tory hordes as well as big business. Hardly a major Labour policy will be passed. The Tories will have wiped 2 of their main opposition parties while silencing the Scots in Parliament.

      In that sense, then yes, and what I also mentioned in another wee post; regardless of Cameron’s thoughts on a second referendum, the will of the Scottish people will demand one …and there will be no opposition to it in Scotland since Scottish Labour will have been effectively wiped out. Any of our ‘imperial masters’ crossing the border will be hounded, chastised and made fools of.

      I absolutely agree that the Labour Party are caught in a trap of their own making, and are being asked the equivalent of choosing to lose either a hand or a foot. Whatever they do, will upset either Scotland or England …which is why I wonder if an English / Welsh or NI Labour MP may go with their constituents wishes …rather than what Ed wants.

      Who knows!

    184. Joemcg says:

      Hoss-it’s on a one hour delay, expect BBC shenanigans.

    185. Joemcg says:

      Coburn-WTF????

    186. CameronB Brodie says:

      Fiona
      If Ms Sturgeon said there will not be another referendum in my life time, if her party has anything to do with it, I would vote for them this time, but I would be looking for an alternative. I wonder if I am alone? If not I wonder if the unionists understand that position

      I have only ever voted SNP, but I’d be right behind you looking for an alternative offering an exit from the Union.

    187. call me dave says:

      Watching debate on the PC link attached.

      Ms Sturgeon doing well…so far.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone

    188. desimond says:

      James Cook Cant Chair

      A new teatime show idea

    189. Edward says:

      Has anyone spotted the cross dresser?
      (with hat on)

    190. What no moustache?

    191. call me dave says:

      Volatile stuff compared to last night.

      P. Harvie chipping in with some good stuff.

    192. desimond says:

      This is another referendum runabout. Oil and SNP bad blah blah blah.

      Robert F just kicked the telly with Ruth saying the UK is one country

    193. Joemcg says:

      Yes was soundly trounced in September-Rennie. Ho Ho Ho.

    194. Edward says:

      Like how unionists talk down Oil resource, meanwhile Shell take over BG Group to develop oil & gas exploration

    195. desimond says:

      Was Aberdeen a ghost town before oul was discovered?

    196. heedtracker says:

      Coooke’s quite weak but the clapometer shows SLabour are the champs tonight. Surely BBC vote SLab Scotland have a balanced audience?

    197. De Valera says:

      Yet another Jim Murphy PPB, SNP bad, biased garbage. This surely cannot reflect public opinion in Scotland.

    198. desimond says:

      Murphy shouting and Nicola saying “rubbish”

      Car crash tv

    199. Ken500 says:

      Tax breaks for the Oil industry? It’s taxed at 70%. (Foreign) Multinationals in the City of London making vast profits tax evade and paid no tax.

      The Unionists in the front row.

    200. Grouse Beater says:

      They might as well have set a pack of dogs on Sturgeon and called it “A BBC Evening Baiting the SNP.”

      Only Harvey is showing any tolerance.

      Cook is discovering how much more difficult is handling a bunch of belligerent pig-headed politicians compared to sticking a microphone under the nose of a civil one and asking for answers.

    201. Edward says:

      Is this who James Cook has modelled himself on 😉 #manlystubble

      http://www.cosplayisland.co.uk/files/costumes/7165/68478/CI_68478_1347825252.jpg

    202. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Take out the lowest people in society”, says Coburn.

      What’s that all about? Anyone care to elaborate on Coburn’s statement? What was Lurch’s response?

    203. Luigi says:

      Audience so obviously over-represented by Tories and LibDems. It’s like an Aberdeen Better Together reunion.

    204. Calgacus says:

      Disgraceful scenes in Aberdeen tonight as the unionist cabal scream abuse at First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. How dare they continue to harang, harass and heckle her whenever she tries to make her progressive policies for the GE known.

      They are completely obsessed with the referendum. They do not realise that that is history as they soon will be.

    205. Onwards says:

      Why is it only Nicola is interrupted constantly by the others.

    206. Ken500 says:

      The transvestite Slater used to be a Labour councillor.

    207. thedogphilosopher says:

      Camera just loving bespectacled, grey-haired Tory clap-happy bloke.

    208. call me dave says:

      It is becoming more and more clear that the unionists will ditch all other things to ensure the continuation of the UK.

      But it will happen nevertheless!

      It’s a rammy now!

    209. desimond says:

      5 people shouting at Nicola Sturgeon… this is Scotland.

      Welcome.

      Sad stuff.

      Jim Murphy cannot answer a question. Truly awful.

    210. galamcennalath says:

      @CameronB Brodie
      @Fiona

      Yes, the SNP need to keep independence centre stage and always on the aganda.

      If they don’t, another Indy party will. There’s 45% waiting to become 55%

    211. desimond says:

      1924…theres the Bingo.

      Has any wings reader voted Ukip…honestly…what sort of imbecile could be inspired by Coburn and Co.

    212. Joemcg says:

      How long has Murphy been on screen for compared to the others? It’s a fricken joke.

    213. desimond says:

      Jim will you join with SNP…

      Cue 2min Waffle about Grand National bets…and close.

      Abysmal

    214. Davy says:

      Aye, Coburn has hit new heights in being a dick.

    215. Ken500 says:

      ‘Was Aberdeen a ghost town before Oil’. YES.

      The City of London was the main beneficiary. Aberdeen the only City in Europe without a pedestrianised City Centre and a By-pass because of (Labour)Unionists.

    216. call me dave says:

      A Murphyism – circumlocution! what a chancer, really he is.

      The SNHS is safe in Jim’s hands…Aye right.

    217. Robert Peffers says:

      Is there anyone on the panel that the Smurph hasn’t shouted over?

    218. desimond says:

      So the bbc dont have sound engineers who can control mic levels.

      Wheres all that license fee going?

    219. Luigi says:

      Well, it was different from last night!

      (still none the wiser).

    220. Grouse Beater says:

      “Stop demonising people,” shouts the useless Murphy at the blob from Ukip, the same Murphy that has demonised anybody that walks or crawls or waves a Saltire who might think independence a good idea.

    221. Indigo says:

      Well, well, well
      Wish that had gone on for another half hour, it was just getting interesting!

    222. Charles Edward says:

      Creepy’s on a permo
      And that u kipper like something out of Scanners
      Or a Cronenberg boil.

    223. Mealer says:

      Galamcennalath 9.48
      It’s about 50:50 for independence at the moment.When unionist politicians gang up and laugh at Nicola for wanting independence they are laughing at half the population.

    224. muttley79 says:

      Well folks, that David Coburn is a lovely, moderate guy! 😀 😀

    225. heedtracker says:

      Creepy Murphy doing vote SLab sincerity, THEN going barking mad, at least makes Hannibal Lecter role more and more likely after politics.

      That is one weird dude. He cant even fake anger at UKIPsters like Coburn. We’re all mad at Coburn creepy Jim. You dont have to over compensate like this. What a pair.

    226. Paula Rose says:

      Busy fingers

    227. Jim Murphy…

      ” the problem is, the media have decided that the most important day, on the 7th May is the 8th of May, but we think you should decide that.”

      Jeez, that’s genius

    228. Ken500 says:

      Coburn got 120K votes. Out of 4.2million.

      ‘Stop Demonising People’ Remember the wee woman who was recovering from Cancer, Jim’s mates insulted.

    229. Training Day says:

      Seemed to me that the sainted James Cook didn’t ask Murphy one challenging question in that farrago.

      Maybe I blinked and missed it.

      Nice to see Better Together’s Hugh Pennington making an appearance in the random audience too.

    230. Katie says:

      Great that jims committed to mental problems. I’ve heard glue sniffing can be bad for your health in this way……

    231. Onwards says:

      Contrived displays of outrage at the UKIP guy, even although he is worthy of it.

      Frustrating that Nicola didn’t get a chance to reply to Murphy’s BS about only Labour v Tories.

      Did his mic seem to be louder than the others, or is it just his voice?

    232. JLT says:

      Seriously,

      Murphy…

      This guy …when asked a question …begin a philosophical debate over anything …everything! but he just won’t answer the question!

      Honestly …can anyone remember if he explained what Labour were going to do if they were in power, and what I mean by that, is the machinations of breakdown in figures as to how the economy / unemployment / oil / whatever will work.
      Ruth Davidson did it (breaking down the £12 billion in cuts), Nicola did it (in explaining how extra borrowing would help to build an economy), Patrick did it (on how we should wean ourselves of oil), Willie (…well Willie rabbited a lot), and Coburn (…well, Coco the clown was great for entertainment in the wrong sense!).

      But Murphy explained nothing. Just whimsical philosophical p1sh about how he or Labour see the world. And worst of all, half of that audience cheered him! (seriously!?! …Jesus!)

      I really hope that most of Scotland saw through his drivel …I really do. I would hate to see Labour winning seats on him having actually explained nothing.

    233. Cag-does-thinking says:

      Let me be the first to congratulate James Cook for doing a pretty decent job of hosting the debate. This was light years ahead of the STV garbage of the night before. Not a fan of the BBC but I think the acid test is I could have done with another hour of this.

      Ranty Murphy at Mr UKIP was funny although to be honest most of these Scottish leader debates are either re-runs of debates in the Scottish Parliament on powers that aren’t to do with the GE in the first place or re-runs of Referendum fights. Letting Nicola deliver the final uppercut about the Hamza “joke” was pure gold.

    234. Edward says:

      I come to the conclusion that these debates just don’t work in Scotland

      Too much shouting to get a point over or worse to drown out someone else

      Thank god claymores are no longer worn……wait, that could become a new high in viewing 😉

    235. Lochside says:

      Murphy talking about mental illness like a very bad parody of Rev Iam Jolly and getting applause!

      Unionists and Glasgow SLABs predominate again in the audience. Anybody from outside Scotland must wonder where all the 45% YES voters are.

      Nicola having to react all the time to Panel talking over and at her…disgraceful! Cooke is like a glove puppet.

      Harvey courteous and calm but marginalised. The Murphy Media show rolls on while BBC try their best to destroy Nicola’s integrity and the SNP’s credibility.

      In short, a disgusting bearpit masquerading as a debate.

    236. H Scott says:

      I thought Jim Murphy moderated that debate rather well.

    237. Now's the Hour says:

      What a disgrace. A hand-picked audience from the Eberdeen Bitter Together reunion society, with tough-guy journo Cook hopelessly out of his depth. Considering it was 4 v 1, (hau’ners fae Paddy), I thought Nikki did well. If this is the state broadcaster’s idea of ‘balanced’ debate, God help us.

      Oh, and why was that racist waste of skin on?

      The sooner we’re out of this rancid, oppressive ‘union’, the better.

    238. Cadogan Enright says:

      Just back from 3 days canoeing around Strangford Loch and camping out on the islands with my nine year old before heading off to work full time on the election until May 8th.

      i’m catching up by watching debate.

      Nicola did well, despite having to battle 4 others and the economically illiterate gobshite from the BBC. Suprised that BBC allows Murphy to repeatedly shout people down. Harvie was OK, as was Ruth.

      Nothing happened to change current trajectory, buiochas Le Dia

    239. Andy Hay says:

      That was utterly terrible viewing. I knew the minute I heard it was to set in Aberdeen what the audience would be like.
      That Cook guy was dire and had no control at all.

      Were we actually back in time to 2014? I could swear that was an Independence referendum debate I was watching.

    240. Alcedo Atthis says:

      Couple of things.

      1) most people on here are expecting too much of these debates and seem to be disappointed about how they have been handled and how the SNP have done int hem.

      The SNP has done well in these debates and by and large I think they have been handled reasonably well. I disagree with the UKIP pig being ont he same stage as Sturgeon but apart from that, Nicola has handled herself very well and the attacks generally work in our favour because it gives her a chance to explain SNP policy.

      2) I noticed last night a lot of references on here to English accents in the audience. I understand that concern but it really does us no good to be seen as xenophobic cheerleaders. Additionally, some of the English people I know who live up here in Glasgow are the most ardent independence supporters I know.

      In conclusion, I am a bit puzzled that people on here aren’t more positive after the debate of last night in particular — don’t you realise, we have more or less been given another bite at the independence cherry?

      Think about it.

    241. Dr Jim says:

      Politicians lose elections all the time
      it doesn’t stop them trying again or changing their convictions

      But they’re really obsessed that the SNP should please just stop existing and go away and please roll over and die we hate you go away

      Coz jist gonny no be here anymore jist gonny no

      It’s hardly an argument is it

    242. GrahamB says:

      Murphy is an a***hole, mibbees aye, mibbees naw. Debate!

    243. osakisushi says:

      Perhaps I am naive but that debate left me furious as it seems 4 of the 6 people on the panel want to ignore me and my wishes for the future.

    244. orri says:

      Any question you ask Jim is a difficult question. Otherwise he’d answer them.

    245. David Smith says:

      Was it me or did I miss the crowd shots when Murphy ‘received applause’ a number of times..?

    246. De Valera says:

      Isn’t it telling that Nicola Sturgeon receives more humanity and respect from English politicians and an English audience.

    247. jock mc x says:

      Nicola,look straight ahead,then look up a bit,then down at
      your notes,give a big slow sigh,and softly just enough for
      the mic to pick it up,say……where do you start with these
      people………..right in the nuts,thank you.

    248. almannysbunnet says:

      Shouty Smugmurphy actually gave the Daily Record a plug and had the nerve to say Nicola was a maybe’s aye maybe’s naw. What an absolute moron! We must take the election of MEP’s more seriously, the only thing I want out of Europe is David Coburn. As for these debates, complete and utter waste of time. Does the BBC and ITV take us for absolute fools with their “typical” audiences? What’s your red line issue?
      Ruth DFS sofa, “I will never compromise in keeping the UK as one country” piss off you only have one MP, currently.
      Jabba, “I will not see the UK broken up but want Europe broken up.”
      Jim Murphy, “Well we in the labour party must protect the poor wee people blah blah blah.”
      Patrick Harvey, to be honest I can’t remember what his red line issue was.
      Nicola, “I will never vote for more money for trident”. Ruth DFS, “that’s not the same as not supporting it”. Nicola, looking confuesed, “I will not support it, vote for it, vote for more money for it, is that clear enough for you Ruth?”
      What utter utter bollocks (apart from queen Nic), who I’m pretty sure I heard saying “oh shut up Willie.”

    249. muttley79 says:

      Why are unionists the ones who are so obsessed with talking about independence? They won the referendum last year. There is unlikely to be one in the short term.

    250. gus1940 says:

      This could have been a good debate but was ruined by Murphy resorting to his usual stategy of constant interruption and the lunatic ravings and interuptions of Coburn.

      James Cooke at times lost control but showed considerable restraint in the face of Murphy’s ill mannered shouting – if I had been in his shoes I would have found it difficult to resist applying the Malky.

      Nicola as we have come to expect was excellent as was Patrick Harvie. I don’t think broad beamed Davidson won many converts to the Tories and Willie Rennie was pretty ineffectual.Coburn I have already dealt with and the poor misguided individuals who voted for him in The EU Election must be feeling rather guilty.

      Can I suggest that in any future debates, to cope with ill mannered interruptions such as those excreted over us by Murphy, the Chairman or Program Director has a panel of buttons in front of him/her so that they can shut off the microphones of loathesome creatures such as Murphy.

      It is safe to say now that The Bad Guys are terrified of Referendum 2.

      Has a law been passed banning the use of the expression Devo Max – all we are hearing now is Full Fiscal Autonomy which I understand means more or less exactly the same thing as Devo Max.

    251. terry says:

      @ken500

      Renee Slater ripped up her labour party membership, joined the greens and is an indy supporter – just like many former labour voters.

    252. Juan P says:

      I cannot understand how you can go into a debate in Aberdeen and not have lines prepared to properly deal with questions relating to oil and gas.

      We all know successive UK Governments have squandered oil and gas revenues through good times and bad.

      Not a single penny put away into an oil fund and a shocking lack of investment into the city of Aberdeen itself and its people.

      All of this under the governance of Westminster and neither Patrick Harvie or Nicola Sturgeon really made this point clear to the audience.

      James Cook also failed to put the lady with the Irish accent’s question to Mr Murphy re whether he would join with the SNP to keep the tories out of government.

      Sturgeon tried to intervene at the very end to ask this very point, Cook knew what she was about to ask and invited Davidson in to speak instead.

      Cook must have known this was a hot topic and odd that he pointedly questioned Ruth Davidson on whether she would block another attempt at referendum but know probing question of Murphy re a deal with SNP.

    253. Joemcg says:

      Osakisushi-I was thinking that too. Seems the Gang of Four just wanted to ignore and alienate half the country with their anti-independence rhetoric. Bad move methinks and tactically naive and stupid.

    254. Onwards says:

      desimond says:
      8 April, 2015 at 9:58 pm

      So the bbc dont have sound engineers who can control mic levels.
      ..

      Apparently not – frustrating for people who actually want to hear answers.

    255. Valerie says:

      I can barely look at that Coburn creep, horrible man and party. I’m pleased Nicola got tore into him and mentioned the disgusting Humza episode.

      Jim cottoned on that Coburn was worth shouting at, to gain the support of the audience.

    256. G4jeepers says:

      BBC news at 10, Gavin Essler using the Gordon Highlander Statue in the castlegate as a backdrop whilst talking about war on the ground and in the air.

      Comparing the number of SNP members to the number of troops in the British army!

      WTF?

    257. desimond says:

      Murphy is oh so so brave and will shout loudly for all of us.

      Just please dont ask him for a simple Yes or No answer to “Will you work with SNP if need be for numbers game?”

    258. James Barr Gardner says:

      James Cook obviously thought he got away with being disrespectful to Nicola on Saturday. So no need tonight bothering to hide bias towards Labour Spud. Anyone notice Glasgow being left out of the debate venues, perhaps Pacific Quay needs another demo to remind them that 50%+ of Scots are keeping a very close eye on manipulative unionist tactics.

    259. almannysbunnet says:

      Just announced on BBC homepage, the Tory manifesto will contain a commitment to build 4 new nuclear submarines. That’s Scotland telt!

    260. Papadox says:

      Thanks EBC & James Cook what a f****** shambles. EBC’s latest kick the dumb jocks serial.

      The latest episode “four unionist attemp to savage young SCOTS woman” (for fun of course). Man o man there were 4 rabid morons on that cirus act tonight, just to attack NICOLA at any cost and for NO reason, somebody orchestrated this and the ring master was totally incapable or unwilling to do his job, unless it was to look the other way and not control his guests.

      If this is James Cooks chosen career then he either made a very bad choice or got very bad advice in my opinion, not his finest hour.

      EBC ARE IN THE SUMP AND IN THE SUMP THEY WILL REMAIN.

    261. heedtracker says:

      So if SLabour triumph May 7, Scotland stays their north region of bums feeding off England’s Barnett kindness, Trident 2 sales up the Clyde, THE VOW turns out to be even more shite than it looks now, foodbanks, sanctioning, 1000 new nurses from creepy Morphy enraging Londoners with big hooses, or we could have been heading for a new Scotland next year. They’re not still fighting the referendum are they all those shouty too poor, small, stupid unionists.

      Thanks again proud Scot buts.

      Saw a Prof Pennington in audience tonight from Aberdeen uni still raging against Scotland running, still furious at the outrage of Scots maybe wanting to run their own country. That one Prof alone vote NO campaigned as hard as any paid shill like Macternan or MacDougal and he’s still going strong but looks like warm death. Karma.

      http://aberdeenvoice.com/2013/04/high-profile-scientist-launches-better-together-aberdeen/

    262. frogesque says:

      BBC news coverage is disgraceful. Murphy clips given full reign while Nicola was voiced over and précied.

      Also Brian Taylor looks like a heart attack waiting to happen

    263. Joemcg says:

      Yep,THE most crucial question of the night was expertly dummied by a cook and Murphy one two and a final pass to referendum Ruth. “Jim,will you work with the SNP?”

    264. Ken500 says:

      BBC

      ‘Let’s go to Banchory and find a Tory’. Pathetic

      Sharing and caring. Thatcher, secretly, took all the Oil revenues and shut every manufacturing facility in Scotland. Labour kept the McCrone Report secret for thirty years. Trident/illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion.

      Scottish taxpayers pay the UK pensions/benefits. £16Billion. Scotland raises more tax revenues (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. Scotland raises £54Billion+ The rest of the UK raises £412Billion (borrows & spends £90Billion more).

    265. Proud Cybernat says:

      The six leaders head towards Canal Turn…

      http://www.scottcreighton.co.uk/GE2015/the-national.png

    266. Robert Peffers says:

      Is there any other totally disproved statistic left that one of the Unionists panellist has left unclaimed? The UKIP Balloon was backed up in his claims that Scotland was dependent upon oil & gas revenues. Scotland has no oil and gas revenues. It all goes to London as Extra-Regio revenue.

      The UK Treasury gathers in every single penny of it and we do not even get the 8.4% they credit as Scots earned on a per capita basis. That figure is just credited as having been earned as Scottish earnings.

      What we get is a block Grant calculated by the adding to a set average UK per capita sum the extra funding needed to run the extra devolved functions we were given.

      That’s the sum that is calculated by the Barnett Formula. It is added to the average per capita sum that the rest of the UK gets directly minus the value in services from Westminster ministries now devolved to Scotland.

      The complaining Englanders get the equivalent value of that extra sum in services provided directly by the Westminster Ministries.

      Do these idiots imagine Westminster should go on giving Scotland more and more functions but without also devolving the funding to go with them? They must as they one and all want to do away with the mechanism that calculates the value of the devolved functions – BARNETT’s FORMULA.

      Another thing is that the total funding for English services that is retained by England but devolved to Scotland, Wales and N.I, doesn’t seem to be reduced when the Westminster Ministries stop providing the services they devolve to the other three countries. Isn’t that effectively raising their real incomes by removing their duty of providing the devolved function but not also reducing the portion of the funding they previously spent in Scotland, Wales and N.I?

    267. gus1940 says:

      David Smith.

      Good point – they play applause tapes in football coverage so there is no reason why they couldn’t have played previous applause for Nicola without showing the audience and attributing it to Murphy – it is The BBC after all.

    268. Pog says:

      @gus 1940
      ‘I don’t think broad beamed Davidson won many converts to the Tories…’
      What has Ruth Davidson’s physical size got to do with anything? I am sick of hearing female poiticians cricitized for how they look, whether they are Tory, Labour or SNP. Not only is it sexist but fat shaming has real negative affects not only on the women being shamed but every other woman having to witness it.

    269. desimond says:

      Ruthies “will you abstain?” Question to Nicola made me think…

      Will Labour and Tories agree that both parties will simply vote in numbers needed to negate any SNP influence at Westminster.

    270. K1 says:

      I think Yes were fighting back strongly there, going against the usual Better Together tactics; even though Patrick was there, they really just piled on Nicola when the opportunity arose.

      Maybe by the time the referendum comes we’ll have addressed enough of the issues surrounding the fiscal aspect, our place in the European union, and of course the oil.

      Let’s just wait guys till the vote, only 5 months to go till September…..

      ::::::::wakes up:::::::

      Vote SNP to actually live in the present; unburdened by repeats from last years broadcasts from the same motley crew, who brought you:

      Indyref1: The Empire Melts Down.

    271. StevieMcB says:

      a kick in the baws fae the Tories.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/32227680

    272. almannysbunnet says:

      Somebody really hasn’t got over “winning” the referendum. “We won we won you yessers need to stop going on about the referendum,” eh but we never mention it, “aye but you need to stop going on about it,” but we’re not, “you need to stop bringing it up in the election” but we never mention it in any of the debates. “Aye but you yesers are up to something, you just cannot seem to accept that you lost.”

    273. Jim McLean says:

      Why does Jim Murphy bang on about the 1924 election when the facts are:

      The 1923 election resulted in a hung parliament with Conservative being the largest party but Labour with Liberal support ran a minority government until brought down on a vote of no confidence.

      1924 election, massive Conservative win.

      The 1929 general election resulted in a hung parliament. Ramsay MacDonald’s Labour, which won the most seats in the Commons for the first time ever but failed to get an overall majority. The Liberals led by David Lloyd George regained some of the ground they had lost in the 1924 election, and held the balance of power.

    274. Onwards says:

      @gus 1940
      ‘I don’t think broad beamed Davidson won many converts to the Tories…’
      What has Ruth Davidson’s physical size got to do with anything?

      I took that as referring to her smile/smirk ??

    275. Les Wilson says:

      Debate,
      Smurf got far too much time and was allowed to talk over everyone, and all with that wild slightly crazy look in his eyes.
      You would think he was terrified of something!!

      Coburn, god he is representing Scotland in the EU, what must they think of us.

    276. Grouse Beater says:

      Whenever I hear ‘Barnett Formula’ I think of a hair tonic against dandruff.

    277. Ken500 says:

      Slater must be a late convert. Used to write endless bitter letters to the P & J slagging off the SNP. Maybe still does? Another Labour guy does the same Rattan? Bucksburn.

      Westminster disbanded the Gordon Highlanders. Merged with another Scottish regiment. Into one.

    278. James Caldwell says:

      This debate could almost have been civilised without Messrs Murphy and Coburn.

      The only advantage of allowing Coburn to feature is to allow him to demonstrate what a vile being he is and what a vile party he represents. Surely even anti-Europeans will have been disgusted by his policies.

      As we know Murphy changes his policies as often as he changes his socks and never answers any questions directly.

      I listened again to part of last night’s STV debate earlier before the BBC version.

      One questioner asked Jim Murphy about the proposed 50% tax rate and suggested that if he was earning £150,000 he would ask for a £1 pay cut and save £6,000. Obviously he didn’t realise that 50% would only be payable on the top slice of his income. Jim Murphy didn’t correct him – maybe he doesn’t understand the tax system either?

      Later a question was asked about the Trident base with one member of the audience suggesting that Helensburgh would become a ghost town and the whole Tourist Industry in the West of Scotland would be decimated if Trident was lost. Jim Murphy’s reply didn’t contradict the assertion. Does he regard Faslane as a tourist attraction?

      As far as I could see Murphy managed to avoid further faux pas on tonight’s debate, but only by continual interuptions of other speakers and expounding rehearsed monologues and weak jokes with his eyes fixed on the camera.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Take out the lowest people in society”, says Coburn.

      Would I be correct in suggesting he meant liquidation camps? (only half joking)

    280. Tinto Chiel says:

      Memo to Mr Cook:

      After your totally ineffectual attempt to chair the BBC debate, I have to ask, “Is this the country we want? Is it? Is it?”

      Can you manage next time to ask a challenging question of Mr Murphy? Or is this above your pay grade?

    281. Ken500 says:

      If Westminster want nuclear subs they can base them at Devonport. They based everything else there. See how that goes.

      Large politicians should not sanction and starve the vulnerable.

    282. caz-m says:

      We had Mr Shouty tonight with the false anger and pointy finger, same tactics as Sarwar and Lamont. They shout at everybody as a diversion.

      Scottish Labour have nothing to tell us.

      NO vision for Scotland, it’s London at all costs.

    283. GrahamB says:

      More nonsense about IndyRef2 on BBC24, their terror of a re-run won’t allow them to let it go.

      Some great lines from tonight’s Wee Ginger Dug: “This feels like we’re in an independence referendum debate. All shoutiness and screaming, heat and no light. Seems the Unionist parties just can’t accept that they won that vote and move on. It’s like Unionist groundhog day.”

    284. Les Wilson says:

      Debate,
      The ghosts of 1707 are still among us.

    285. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Right at the end of the programme, what I found interesting, was that Nicola shook Willie Rennie’s hand, then walked round behind James Cook and Murphy, heading towards wee Ruthie, I guess to shake her hand, when the video cut to the BBC’s election caption.

      Methinks Nicola and Ruthie have a healthy respect for each other and Nicola’s blanking of Murphy in favour of Ruthie, was a step too far for BBC Scotlandshire, hence the rapid cut to the caption.

    286. Macart says:

      @JLT

      No not inconceivable, but I would say unlikely. Nicola’s ideas were well received in the main debate with the left and progressives throughout the UK. That was a heads up for not just Cameron, but Ed too. I reckon that was the catalyst for memogate, the response to Nicola’s appearance was somewhat of an eye opener for the English electorate. Not the claymore wielding monster intent on domination they were expecting as it were. Too popular a response if you catch my drift.

      The more they see of Nicola and the SNP in action, the less they will see they have to fear. Labour needs its leftist credentials intact to remain Labour. Without that support who do they become? What are they for? Those will be the questions uppermost in the mind of left leaning progressives throughout the UK. If Ed is smart he will have considered this scenario. His party needs clear water between themselves and the Conservatives. Were I him and things go the way we hope then confidence and supply between Labour and the SNP will see him in the big chair and give his party those progressive creds he so desperately needs to keep his core vote onside.

    287. MrObycyek says:

      @Training Day

      Yes I noticed this as well. Jim Murphy seemed to be given a free ride at times. He does not have a sincere bone in his body and it does not say much for the intelligence of the audience when they seem to lap it all up. This man is New Labour through and through.

      Maybe it is just me but I picked up on a real sense of hostility in the audiences, and from the Unionist party reps, at times. There seems to be a really nasty attitude, barely concealed, by the people who voted no towards people who dared to vote yes. You would think that they had lost such is their bitterness.

    288. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      O/T, but we are at 289 comments, so I feel O/T is acceptable…

      On Sunday, from 12 noon until 4pm, Team YES Bus will be at City Square in Dundee, campaigning for independence and the SNP.

      Any Wingers who are in Dundee at the weekend will be welcomed with open arms by Team YES Bus, to hammer home the benefits of re-electing Stuart Hosie in Dundee East and electing Chris Law (Spirit of Independence) in Dundee West.

      We Wingers had a bra’ afternoon at City Square a couple of Sundays ago!

    289. Patrician says:

      On question of another referendum: this is my transcript of the Andrew Marr interview on this subject. My emphasis in bold:

      “Andrew Marr: if you win by nought point nought nought one percent or a 100 votes or ten votes. Is that it? Scotland is independent? you have the negotiations , there is no going back?

      Alex Salmond: Well, Harold Wilson famously “one vote is enough in a referendum”, but we are not aiming to win by one vote, we are aiming to achieve a, a substantial majority, if we can and one of the great assets of the Yes campaign is we don’t regard any section or sector of Scottish society or any geography of Scotland beyond our reach we tend to take the attitude that there isn’t so much a no vote in Scotland as a deferred Yes’s and that has been one of the successes of the campaign.

      AM: If there is a no vote by a whisker, again is that it? Do you come back for another referendum in a few years time? I mean you have talked in the past about it being for a generation,is that still your view?

      AS: Yes, it is and by that I mean you must remember that previous cons.. I know you do, constitutional referendum in Scotland, there was one in 1979, and then the next one was in 1997 and that is what I mean by a political generation. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion then this is a once in a generation opportunity.

      AM: So you are talking there about an 18 to 20 year gap or so forth. So can you pledge that Alex Salmond will not bring back another referendum if you don’t win this one?

      AS: Well that is my view, in my view this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland.”

      And as we know Alex won’t bring back another referendum as he is no longer leader.

      For anyone reading from the BBC or STV,and we know you are here. Nicola Sturgeon is not Alex Salmond and his personal opinions carry no weight now.

    290. Ken500 says:

      The Universities are awash with cash. Aberdeen built a glass Library costing £800,000? Yet they complain they do not get enough for research. Pull the other one.

    291. lumilumi says:

      Have been flitting between WoS and a Game of Thrones forum (in preparation for the 5th season – and I’ve read all the books, thank you very much) and it’s just getting all mixed up and confused.

      The Tory Lannisters and Roose “Jim Murphy” Bolton turning on the Queen in the North Nicola while Leanne Wood nurses her Welsh dragons…

      Sorry for the levity, I don’t live in the UK at the moment, and this GE is deadly serious for anybody in Scotland, or indeed anybody anywhere in the UK. Not some soap opera, though the MSM and BBC seem to do their best to reduce it to just that.

      But it is entertaining. Seeing the panic and desperate measures of the Establishment when their stranglehold on the “smallfolk” and their cosy duopoly seems about to crumble.

      This UK GE is way more entertaining, or rather, intriguing and interesting, than our Finnish GE on April 19. We’ll probably have a new PM heading a slightly different coalition goverment with slightly different policies but nothing groundbreaking, nothing like a constitutional crisis or a jolt and a shock to our political culture or our very political system. (All our governments have always been coalitions because we’ve always had a PR voting system, and we expect and want coalition governments – one party government is totally abhorrent – it’d be one party dictatorship!)

      My only fear is that the way things are going in the UK (which, unfortunately, still includes Scotland), I’ll never again be able to live and work in my second homeland, my beloved Scotland. English voters will rip the UK out of the EU and I’ll be a detested foreigner unable to get a working/residency visa.

    292. Grouse Beater says:

      Patrician quotes AS: Well that is my view, in my view this is a once in a generation, perhaps even a once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland.”

      A smart politician tells voters do or die, not leave it in abeyance, there’s always next week.

      He amended his comment next day by restating it, adding, “But that is only my opinion, not the view of the government.”

      And that’s how it should be.

      He stuck to that thereafter, smelling a trap which, hey presto, has come to pass when even an independent supporter thinks he ditched the ambition for a decade or more.

      As said, he bolsters that by comment and book title: ‘The dream shall never die.”

      Labour lost the last general election, and the one before that. Democracy allows them to keep trying.

      Okay?

    293. Tackety Beets says:

      Lumilumi

      Don’t despair , you are among friends here and in Scotland

      We all enjoy your “enlightening” posts .

    294. Patrician says:

      @Grouse Beater, Alex knew fine well it was a trap not just for him but for anyone that followed him. That is why he stressed the “in my opinion” and “it is my view”. He knows he couldn’t possibly tie the hands of the next leader. However, “No referendum in a generation” is a phrase constantly being taken out of context and used as a stick to try to beat Nicola. So the context needs to be restated as not everyone on here now would have seen or heard the original interview.

    295. Gary says:

      Don’t worry, by tomorrow he’ll be saying it again anyway. He can’t help it…

    296. Ken500 says:

      Freudian slip

      Grattan (Rattan?) Bucksburn. The Labour guy who writes daily letters to the P & J slagging off the SNP and Independence. No P & J is complete without one. It gives ex readers a laugh.

    297. john king says:

      I have a question
      Why if the unionists are so confident that “the silent majority” has spoken are they so paranoid about the prospect of another referendum?

      Surely we could hold a referendum every Thursday and (going by their assertions) we would lose every time, or are they that confident?



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