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Wings Over Scotland

The weight of evidence

Posted on March 31, 2015 by

Like some sort of out-of-control, unstoppable lying machine, Scottish Labour keep telling the electorate that the party with the most seats in a hung parliament is the one that forms the government, and that the only way to prevent the Conservatives from returning to power is for Labour to be the biggest party.


They’ve been saying it for weeks. They say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, almost as if it’s all they’ve got.

The trouble is that an awful lot of people seem to disagree with them.

– Peter Riddell of the Institute For Government disagrees:

(The World At One, BBC Radio 4, 30 March 2015)

– The UK government Cabinet Manual disagrees:


– Lord (Sir) Gus O’Donnell, the Cabinet Secretary to the last three UK Prime Ministers (making him the highest-ranked official in the Civil Service) disagrees:

(When The People Say Not Sure, BBC Radio 4, 16 March 2015)

– The highly-respected and impartial research group disagrees:


– The BBC’s official 2015 general election FAQ disagrees:


– The state broadcaster’s website in 2010 also disagreed:


– And the Daily Politics disagrees:

– Professor John Curtice, Scotland’s only living psephologist, disagrees:

(The Jeremy Vine Show, BBC Radio 2, 16 March 2015)

– Robert Blackburn, the professor of Constitutional Law at King’s College London asked to produce a paper on the subject for the UK government in 2010, disagrees:


– A few weeks before that report, when Labour had won 48 fewer seats in the general election than the Conservatives but the Tories were short of a majority, the Labour minister Douglas Alexander disagreed with 2015 Labour:


– And the current Scottish branch manager Jim Murphy also firmly disagreed then with what he angrily insists on telling voters now:


– And Labour’s own Lord Adonis, who was present at the ultimately unsuccessful coalition negotiations between Labour and the Lib Dems that year (and indeed went so far as to write a book about them), also disagrees:

Of course, maybe they’re all wrong. There’s just no way of knowing.

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151 to “The weight of evidence”

  1. Chitterinlicht says:

    Yes but are you sure?

    I need more evidence.

  2. Caledonius says:

    I hope Sturgeon crushes this lie once and for all in the debates. Better yet have SNP posters up calling out the lie. THIS WON’T WIN YOU BACK VOTERS LABOUR! WE KNOW IT’S A LIE! DO U UNDERSTAND?

  3. Lollysmum says:

    And with the weight of opinion WoS is shoving down their throats Jim Murphy is still lying his head off.

    Clearly JM knows better than all those heavyweight opinions posted above. Yeah right & pigs might fly 🙂

  4. sunshine says:

    It’s bloody groundhog day with that mob. God help us if both tories and labour have the same amount of seats.
    They will probably demand Punxsutawney Phil tells them what to do.

  5. mogabee says:

    Handy piece to share..EVERY DAY 😀

  6. Scott Borthwick says:

    Yes, they are lying. They know it. We know it. I suspect they are just trying to fall over the line in May, hoping they can do a deal with anyone rather than the SNP.

    If anyone else can prop them up, all this will be consigned to Labour’s misremembered history.

  7. Mosstrooper says:

    But what about Plan B (and the children of course)

  8. Mealer says:

    Does it even have to be a “party” ? Speaking purely hypothetically,if Nick Clegg could get enough MPs of all parties to defy their whips and give him their support,could he form a government? Or,for that matter,any back bench MP?

  9. manandboy says:

    So well done, Stu. Excellent work.

    So much evidence against their publicity stunt lies,
    and yet McTernan & Co. continue to persevere with it.

    As a strategy, this is either incredibly clever, or incredibly desperate.

    My money’s on desperate – and their belief that ‘you can fool some of the people all of the time’.

  10. kev says:

    he is right the largest party has always formed the govt since the last time it never when the second largest did, hope that clears it all up

  11. snode1965 says:

    This tactic will work on the Britnats and the traditional un- informed Labour voter. Unfortunately for Dim Jim there ain’t enough of them left. Pure damage limitation from Slab trying to keep SNP under 40 seats. Eat, sleep, lie repeat…Eat, Sleep, Lie Repeat…EAT, SLEEP, LIE REPEAT !! %-(

  12. Norma Ballingall says:

    Can you share this info with Jim Murphy please?

  13. SquareHaggis says:

    I’m sorry, but…

    I disagree.

  14. Ken MacColl says:

    Is this how desperate they get?

    Their whole case appears to rest now on what they -and everyone else- knows to be a lie.

    Sic transit Gloria or whatever…….

    or maybe it should be Sick transit Magrit.

  15. Macca73 says:

    The lie is only half of the problem. We all know that this is designed to try and create blind panic in the hearts of the people in Scotland.

    The BBC and other broadcasters will have opinion polls coming out soon and when they do put the Tory party ahead (you can bet on this) then Labour and this lie will swing into full action to panic people to vote for them.

    I don’t think that they have banked on an ARMY of people of 102,000+ SNP members swinging into action mind you to take to the streets to debunk the lies. THAT is what will need to happen because the more that it does happen and people start taking note then the more chance of a win across ALL of Scotland.

  16. JLT says:

    Caledonius says:

    I hope Sturgeon crushes this lie once and for all in the debates

    You can just picture the car crash happening, can’t you?

    To be honest, it may be advisable to have Rhona nearby just so she can end the debate on this matter.

    Because I can see tears before bedtime…

  17. Proud Cybernat says:

    And they can say it over and over and over and until they are blue in the face… you get the idea. And I’ll post this over and over and over…

  18. muttley79 says:

    SLAB have no choice but to push on with this lie because it is the entire basis of their incompetent and wretched campaign. Unfortunately, expecting the likes of Murphy, Dugdale. Alexander, Curran, and the backseat passengers McTernan, McDougall, and co to tell the truth is expecting way too much. They are careerists to a man and women. They have no purpose in politics apart from earning a wage and status.

  19. Fiona says:

    I think you are all missing the point here.

    Jim Murphy tried to ensure that labour would form the government after the 2010 election, even though it was not the biggest party. He failed. It follows automatically that it cannot be done. That is how good Jim Murphy is. Accept it, people 😉

  20. Joemcg says:

    Can see Nicola producing all their recent leaflets on telly and ripping Murphy a new one and he will start daein that shouty thing he does when under pressure…and now the screaming starts. Can’t wait!

  21. crisiscult says:

    Arch Brit Tomkins who admittedly knows a fair bit about constitutional law also recently on twitter referring to self same cabinet manual – not often he’s likely to agree with Rev Stu although I do suspect there’s an undercurrent of frustrated sexual attraction between them.

  22. Quentin Quale says:

    Murphomania. A strange abberation which results in members of a cult blindly following and repeating their leader’s witterings even in the face of evidence which destroys their claims. Usually at its most pronounced just before extinction.

  23. gordoz says:

    Its clearly clever manipulation from Labour – as ever :
    go for the snappy sound bite

    Designed to persuade a lazy electorate who will very likely not check the facts; (look at Brown and the Vow).

    With a weak and conforming Scottish media they will always get away with this crap (usually).

    Its clearly simple arithmetic; Lab + SNP + PC + Greens or Tories / Lib / DUP.
    Its down to a question of whether they will play ball with the nasty Nats or let Tories run riot.

    They just don’t like giving straight answers and honestly I can see them rejecting the sane (if distasteful to them)obvious choice and foisting the Tories on the public out of spite. Seriously that’s how this will play out.

  24. Peter A Bell says:

    I am sensing Stu’s frustration here.

  25. Bill Hume says:

    Stu may need another couple of weekends off before May, just to keep his sanity.

  26. Fiona says:

    @ gordoz

    I don’t think so.

    I do not see any prospect of the tories admitting they come in two colours, because the electorate south of the border don’t seem to have noticed that yet. When they do it is likely that a progressive part will start to make real headway there, encouraged by the demonstration in Scotland that this can happen.

    And what will poor labour do then? Poor thing

  27. Ian Kirkwood says:

    What Happened to Murphy’s Myth about Labour getting an overall majority in both Scotland and the UK? That’s what he keeps saying will happen. Doesn’t appear to be much self belief behind it, does there?

  28. Grant says:

    Can we get this across to the voters with no tinternet?

    Any money in the pot for concise adverts to this effect on buses, bus stops… backs of bus tickets even? A cut and paste from should do it.

  29. Jim McIntosh says:

    Poor Labour 🙂 between a rock and a hard place.

    I think they’re hoping the Tories do have enough seats to form a coalition with some of the smaller parties.

    If Labour get enough seats to from a government with SNP seats and they don’t, they are even more toast in Scotland.

    If they do form a government with SNP support voters in England will crucify them next time. See below a comment below from someone on the LabourList website.

    “Having largely wiped itself out in Scotland by utterly failing to comprehend the power of the urge for national self-determination, it would be ironic if Labour’s response to the problem that this has created was to start repeating the same error in England.”

  30. call me dave says:

    ‘Scot goes pop’ latest.

    UPDATE : According to the Daily Mail, these are the voting intention numbers in the ComRes poll. The percentage changes are from the 2010 results in Labour-held seats.

    SNP 43% (+24)
    Labour 37% (-14)

    Poll out on STV around 18:30hrs.

  31. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Got a report from the National on 26/03/2015 page 13 ,written by Elliot Bulmer for the Centre on Constitutional Change.

    It’s about Gordon Brown’s Cabinet Manual produced just before the 2010 election to ‘clarify what might happen after there is a hung parliament’.

    Seems relevent to Labour’s ‘largest party’ nonsense.

    Worth a LOOK Rev

    P.S sorry about earlier reference .it was wrong.

  32. ErinT says:

    “not often he’s likely to agree with Rev Stu although I do suspect there’s an undercurrent of frustrated sexual attraction between them”

    But that was going to be the subject of my self-published erotic novel. Damn.

    I hope Nicola, or at least an audience member, highlights this in the Scottish leaders debates. It wouldn’t surprise me if Davidson also tries to raise this to pull the Unionist vote to the Conservatives by making Labour look increasingly untrustworthy.

  33. Chitterinlicht says:

    Think you deserve a lot of credit for shining a spot light on this lie.

    Fact that MSM is catching up is evidence of how much we need Stu and this website.

    (sending some love given all the pish we read about Stu. )

    And would just like to point out that I and I am sure many many on here and following Stu on Twitter are more than capable of coming to conclusions for ourselves about what we read and what we think about it and Stu.

  34. thomaspotter2014 says:

    I read a report in the National 26/03/2015, from Elliot Bulmer of the Centre for Constitutional 13 next to photo of Gordon Brown.

    Seems Brown had a questionable Cabinet Manual made up to’clarify what may or may not be possible after the event of a hung parliament’.

    Worth a look Rev. as it seems to be relative to Labour’s ‘largest party gets to form the government’ guff.

  35. Flower of Scotland says:

    Well done Stu! You’re like a terrier. Thank goodness you are doing this work for us!

    This gives us ammunition on the doorsteps and in debates.

    This is stored with lots of other valuable work from you. I’m sharing this!

  36. RMFBrown says:

    I agree with Peter A Bell. This is a Scottish labour plot to drive the Rev mad. What other explanation can there be? 🙂

  37. crazycat says:

    Is it ok to go O/T now?

    I’ve just received a petition from the Campaign Against the Arms Trade:

    because the chairman of BAE Systems has just been appointed Vice Chairman of the BBC Trust. He will be paid more than £70,000 of taxpayers’ money for this.

    This is not a or 38degrees petition, but one organized directly by CAAT.

  38. jimnarlene says:

    And they will keep on using it, right up to the last vote has been counted.

  39. Wulls says:

    Joemcg@ 5.45
    Actually that will never happen unless the Scottish media get their finger out and to a regional program.
    Nicola is the first minister, Jim Murphy is only the branch manager.
    If it was a Hollyrood election fair play but this is a forum for bigger guns than Jim.

  40. Don’t you just love this election, certainly in Scotland people can now see that democracy in motion.

    The referendum not only engaged the Scottish population but exposed how the main parties operate, hence the SNP’s popularity. South of the border and elsewhere votes for minority parties can matter thus reflect the state of the nation (s). How brilliant is that.

    It makes even prouder to be a Scot.

  41. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT but I watched STV news and I am sure JOHN MACKAY said that the figures for waiting time in A&E at the Western and Gartnaval were poor.

    Now I may have misheard but I do know that there is no A&E in Gartnaval.

  42. Kenneth Shaw says:

    When will they realise that their ‘Baw’ is well and truly bust……..

  43. Grizzle McPuss says:

    “There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe and it has a longer shelf life”

    Frank Zappa

  44. arthur thomson says:

    It was always SLAB’s plan to keep pushing this mantra and it will continue right to the end. The SNP or ‘someone’ must produce a leaflet or a poster that states explicitly that SLAB are lying. It has to be simple and succinct and it is best that it happens very soon. Nothing less will counteract it.

  45. Patrick Roden says:

    So Jim Murphy and the Labour Party are telling Scots that
    It’s always the biggest party who gets to form the government.

    If this ends up not being true, and it can be shown that Jim Murphy knows this is not true, then any other statement or promise, they make, becomes completely pointless, as they have been shown to be dishonest.

    So the focus should shift away from the Biggest Party issue, to the fact that his 1000 nurses, his extra £1,000 on student bursaries, his extra money to end food-banks, etc etc, are just more Labour lies.

    Until they come clean about the biggest party, we should just stick to the fact that ‘Labour have been shown to be proven liars in the campaign, so can’t be trusted to deliver on these promises’

  46. Joemcg says:

    Wulls-oh I assumed Nicola was facing Murphy. Pity.

  47. HandandShrimp says:

    OT but I watched STV news and I am sure JOHN MACKAY said that the figures for waiting time in A&E at the Western and Gartnaval were poor.

    Now I may have misheard but I do know that there is no A&E in Gartnaval.

    My God if they don’t have an A&E the figures will be terrible…none seen in infinity time


  48. Mealer says:

    Arthur Thomson 7.03,
    Canvassers on doorsteps can counteract it.

  49. manandboy says:

    Given the parameters within which McTernan & Co have to work,
    there can be no more effective message
    than the one they are already using.

    They have no choice but to stick with ‘The Biggest Party’.

    But they do have a plan ‘A+’ remember, which is electioneering
    plus ballot rigging.

    This is Labour after all.

  50. Macart says:

    And the more they repeat the lie, the more helpless, devious and desperate they look.

    Labour in full self destruct mode. D’you think they’re even aware of the damage they are doing to themselves and everyone else?

  51. Luigi says:

    As Rev Campbell quickly predicted (long before most of us noticed), this has become a critical issue in the battle for Scotland in 2015. Labour have thrown everything they have left into this. Winner takes all, and who wins the argument about whether or not the largest party always forms the government will decide whether Labour are anihilated in Scotland, or they score a sort of victory by losing less than 20 seats.

    People need to get up to speed on this. These quotes from respected sources that Stu has compiled need to be copied and shared with the less-informed voters. Either in a new blue book or a fact sheet for canvassers to put in the doors. The elderly and social media-unaware in particular should be targeted and shown the truth.

    The red tories have placed all their bets on this myth. Let’s debunk it once and for all and wipe the barstewards out in May.

  52. arthur thomson says:

    Mealer 7.13

    Yes this will certainly help but I think a battering ram needs to be applied to this one.

    O/T Nicola was absolutely BRILLIANT on Good Morning Scotland. What a leader she is.

  53. HandandShrimp says:

    Sod’s Law

    What is going to happen is that the Tories are going to beat Labour by two seats and although Ed could easily govern with SNP, SDLP, PC and Green support with a comfortable cushion the Tories are going to ram these incessant wails down their throat and demand that Labour step aside and let Cameron into No 10 even though he will not be able to command the necessary numbers to govern.

  54. galamcennalath says:

    Only one question?

    Is it now too late for all Labour Scotland Branch Office candidates to withdraw from the election, stay at home, keep quiet and stock up with popcorn?

    It would be the best tactic for their party. The next government would be a simple partnership of Labour representing rUK and SNP representing Scotland, and together commanding a HoC majority.

  55. caledonia says:

    What really needs to happen now is whenever a SNP person/msp/candidate is interviewed FIRST on TV needs to say in the first sentence “of course the party with the most seats is not gaureenteed to form the government”

    Then go on to say jim should agree with this as in 2010 he bla bla bla

  56. Has anyone else got one. I’ve just had a card put through my letterbox from the Labour incumbent saying sorry I was out when he called. I wasn’t, but on the card was a promise to enact home rule for Scotland within 100 days. When from?

  57. Joemcg says:

    New ComRes poll for ITV has Red Tories losing 28 seats. Please God no. Not enough for my liking.

  58. Tam Jardine says:

    Can you imagine how amazingly unedifying it will be to witness labour scrabbling about to get into government with a few seats less than the Conservatives. It will be the single biggest piece of hypocrisy mankind has produced!

    If that does indeed come to pass the SNP should tell them to shove it up their arses and the entire labour party should be deported.

    I can’t wait.

  59. caledonia says:

    In fact its like saying the biggist party gets to form the government since the last time they did not..

  60. orri says:

    As they seem singularly incapable of answering that question perhaps we should think up another one.

    What influence do individual members, such as unelected candidates, have on decisions to enter into coalition or other agreements undertaken by their party’s MPs?

  61. Macart says:

    Question to accounting branch types scanning the thread. Do you folks think Ed will take the throne if a deal can be done or will he take the huff along with you guys and allow the Blue tories to carry on, or will he in fact form an alliance with the blue Tories?

    None of those outcomes bodes particularly well for you guys really, now does it?

    Karma’s coming to town. Tick tock.

  62. Mealer says:

    Arthur Thomson 7.31,
    I just listened to Nicolas GMS interview on iplayer.Robust but fair questioning which she handled very well.Very competent,confident and articulate.Streets ahead of anyone else.

  63. manandboy says:

    Labour have an affinity with the Tories
    which they do not have with the SNP.
    It starts with a U .

    I personally think it will have an influence since we are no longer
    dealing with politics as it used to be pre-Indy.

    The only thing making any sense to Labour and Tory is maintaining the Union.

  64. YESGUY says:

    This is all they have left.

    They know they have lost. They know even if a few survive the Scottish elections will kick many more out. I think we can take it for granted .

    No one believes the drivel of the union mp’s. The odd few who do won’t make a difference. not now. Look at the numbers at the SNP conf. Look at the difference in attitudes from all the other parties.

    Look at the anti-Scots drivel from south of the border. A week back on tv, every time Kezia Dug opened her mouth the crowd groaned. She was sitting with a beemer so bright i had to put my shades on.

    No one is listening any more.

    They can bleat all they want about whatever they want , as they are old news in Scotland.

    Things have been changing slowly for a while now. We keep talking and passing the word and the rest will take care of it’self.

    Imagine a tory PM being liked more than a Labour PM in Scotland. Hilarious 😀

    R.I.P. LIEbour.

  65. De Valera says:

    Once all the evil has escaped out of Labour’s Pandoras Box, all that is left is Hate.

  66. Tinto Chiel says:

    While out canvassing in my local Lanarkshire constituency over the past two or three weeks, I sense a substantial change since the referendum campaign: many old Labour voters have told me it is not the party they voted for, and they will be voting SNP. One was a party member of forty years standing, a former branch secretary and miner. I questioned closely, and few had internet access, so much of the received wisdom on this issue seems to be falling apart, if it was ever valid. I have always been uneasy about “blaming the oldies”: it didn’t closely match my discussions with them during the referendum.

    I have thought about this a lot and have concluded, as the Americans say, that Labour are simply a busted flush. Some wise guy said, if you keep telling the truth, you’ll get found out sooner or later. The reverse seems to have happened to SLAB.

    Tough Titty.

    TickatickaTimex (to celebrate Yes City Dundee)!

  67. Effijy says:

    Guys this is serious!
    We need to hit back at this blatant and malicious LIE.

    The media won’t correct what they know to be a lie, the English parties won’t because they work together to suppress the Scots, and SNP don’t say too much as they
    are looking at the polls which say they will be Labour
    partners in the next government.

    Can we, WoS, take out a TV add Radio, or Half Page in our biggest selling Tory Paper, the Sun where we call Labour
    out and out Liars and Scaremongers along with the names
    of the official names or bodies who verify how a coalition government is formed?

    Normally we would have a fear of being sued for calling anyone a Liar, but in this case, that just doesn’t count.
    In fact why don’t we suggest that they take us to court
    if we are in any way inaccurate in our statement?

    They are Liars, we have proved it with the highest authorities in the land.

    Do you want to vote for the Scottish LIAR Party?????
    general election?

  68. Joemcg says:

    Let the tories in? It’s totally laughable anyway after them daein the gay gordon’s ???? whilst quaffing champers with their blue tory mates on September 19th.

  69. No no no...Yes says:

    O/T but still Labour related. It would appear that they are struggling with boots on the ground and have started to prioritise which MPs should get targeted.

    Wednesday 1 April 2015

    10.30am: Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar)
    1.30pm: West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle)
    4.30pm: Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch (Gregg McClymont)
    7pm: Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash)

    Thursday 2 April 2015

    10.30am: Edinburgh South (Ian Murray)
    1.30pm: Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore)
    4.30pm: Glenrothes (Melanie Ward)

    Are they the chosen ones?

    Attendees even get a medal!

  70. galamcennalath says:

    This cheered me up no end …..

    We live in hope! Oh please let it happen.

  71. ClosetJambo says:

    Luigi @ 7:26 hits the nail on the head. We NEED a factsheet/flyer/WBB-lite to expose the SLab lie about the biggest party getting to form the government.

    How about it Rev?

    Something that can be shown as a pic on Twitter, Facebook, etc and printed and distributed. This article is effectively a very good draft.

  72. Jim says:

    Scotland elected 41 labour MPs at the last election and still got a Tory government.
    Their best chance of coming to power is for Scots to vote SNP which will support a minority Labour Government.

  73. fletch49er says:

    I’m just going to talk loudly over the top of you for a minute or two; mention something anout 1924; talk loudly over the top of you some more; and move onto another topic as I’ll be convinced that I’ve won that one hands down. Making sure I’m talking loudly over the top of anyone and everyone.

  74. Dandy Dons 1903 says:

    Labour living up to the name yet again. Shameless gits.

  75. Macart says:

    A question I’d like to see Nicola fire off on Thursday should the chance present itself.

    So Mr Cameron your government won the referendum, could you explain to the Scottish people and indeed the people of the UK, just why are the SNP a threat? If the Scottish people feel that the best representation they can send to Westminster are members of the Scottish National Party just why are the wishes of the Scottish electorate unwelcome and their representatives unwelcome?

    Your advertising claims as much, your supportive press titles claim as much even members of your own party claim as much, doesn’t this stance fly in the face of your much publicised referendum stance ‘a stronger voice’.

    In your own time Mr Cameron.

  76. Caledonius says:

    Jim @8:36pm

    Yes, support them and also provide ‘the spine and guts’ for them. Man I loved Nicola’s speech 🙂

    Just remember folks it’s 8000 slab members vs 102,000 SNP members + non SNP allies. We can do a lot of damage on the ground to labour on the ground, perhaps for the first time enough manpower to seriously try to counteract BBC propaganda.

  77. Dandy Dons 1903 says:

    Sorry its meant to be Labour!!! WTF!!!

  78. Tackety Beets says:

    Caledonia @ 7.39 pm

    Yes .
    or “Remember that in 1924 / 1951 the smaller party did form the Gvt , and infact as recently in 2010 we can ALL re-call the lost week when Gordon Brown remained in Office for a few days as he attempted to stay in Gvt with about 40 less Mps than Cons ”

    Unfortunately this may be seen as SNP grovelling on their bellies like Labour etc

    I see SNP as always raising the bar of simple and clear politics , which is evident in interviews . No waffle straight answers which makes them more endearing to the voters.

    Its a sorry mess when UK politicians and MSM do not need to be truthful.

  79. Thomas says:

    I just couldn’t resist the temptation and created a simple counter-poster:

    Text courtesy of, design inspired by Scottish Labour & the SNP’s 2014 European Parliament elections manifesto.

    Free use for all!

    (I have a vector version if anyone wants to print it 🙂

  80. Dandy Dons 1903 says:


  81. Kevin Evans says:

    This is boring now – we know it’s bull, I tell everyone I know it’s bull, most folk realise it’s bull, it’s bull.

  82. Robert says:

    The second sentence is actually true. “The more seats the SNP get … the more likely a Tory government”.

    Can’t disagree with that – particularity if Labour commit to the suicide of not working with the SNP.

  83. MargaB says:

    OT, but curiously, have just now heard on the Catalan TV: “The winning party isn’t necessarily the party that wins the most votes. Forming pacts and dialogue are essential parts of democracy”.

    Well the concept seems to be pretty generally understood except in UK Labour Land.

  84. Edward says:

    Caledonius @9:19pm
    You’ve hit the proverbial nail on he head!

    Labour ARE outnumbered and this must be used to the SNP’s advantage

    Labour’s resources are stretched and they cannot have support from down south (as they did during the referendum) as Labour down south have themselves a fight on their hands.

  85. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    ComRes Poll is flawed and Scot goes Pop in update II explain a flaw in the question on voter recall in 2010 and a weighting change.

    SNP seats should be higher.

  86. Dumb Unicorn says:


    Call me a glutton for punishment, but I sometimes have a peak at the Scottish Labour Facebook page, just out of curiosity, to see what rubbish they’re spouting and what people have to say about it. I’ve never commented on it – seems like trolling to me, however tempted I am to do the decent thing and shout ‘Don’t believe them, it’s not true!’.

    Predictably it’s previously had a lot of anti-Labour/pro-SNP comments on there (many ex-Labour people by the looks of it) with a small number of stalwart Labour fans shouting them down.

    In recent posts it seems there aren’t so many pro-SNP comments. I wondered if Labour had started to get their act together, or if the pro-SNP commenters had got bored of repeating themselves.

    But then I noticed that whoever looks after the page has finally clicked that you can delete comments – so now there are loads of replies to people whose comments have since disappeared.

    Oh well, I guess they don’t want any debate or constructive criticism (or people pointing out things which aren’t true). Their Facebook administrator’s going to be busy 🙂

  87. Stoker says:

    Caledonius wrote:
    “Just remember folks it’s 8000 slab members vs 102,000 SNP members + non SNP allies. We can do a lot of damage on the ground to labour on the ground, perhaps for the first time enough manpower to seriously try to counteract BBC propaganda.”

    Hi Caledonius,
    Where did you get the 8000 Slab members figure from?

  88. Bob Mack says:

    @Dumb Unicorn,
    They have blocked dozens of us over the past two weeks.

  89. Ealasaid says:

    There is another trick they can try before the GE. They can manipulate the polls.

    I for one do not believe the recent fall in in the recent SNP polling after it holding steady for so long. They may believe that if people thought votes were starting to move from SNP to Labour that others would follow the trend.

  90. Caledonius says:


    It was an article in the Glasgow Evening times last year, some labour insider admits its a little less than 8000 apparently. Might be able to find the story online. I know murphy quotes 20,000 but he isn’t exactly one for truth now 😉

  91. Onwards says:

    I agree with those that the SNP needs to put big priority into countering this one lie.It seems to be Labour’s main tactic, and eventually enough people will fall for it.

    This link from a previous thread has a simple image that makes a joke of their claim

    A hunched Gordon Brown (back right), Labour ministers and advisers including Alastair Campbell (standing left) wait for Nick Clegg to call with his decision on who will form the next government

    Its important that people understand WHY Labour are making this claim.
    They don’t want the SNP holding them to account, and they don’t want to make any concessions to Scotland.

  92. call me dave says:


    It’s a labour secret but ‘Wee Ginger Dug’ implies <7000 while others who have had a stab (can't put names forgotten) have muted about 8000 max.

    The last 3 threads have been crackers and mix in the new poll , which has its flaws, and it's been a good day. 🙂

  93. muttley79 says:

    Can anyone tell me is you are still able to post links to a Youtube clip on here? I tried earlier but the post has not appeared.

  94. liz says:

    @muttley79 – only if you leave out the http bit at the beginning otherwise it deletes automatically

  95. Jim McIntosh says:

    Jesus – Just watched ITV news discussing the ComRes poll. Stated swing to SNP would mean 38 seats to 12 Labour. Then went on to show canvassers going round the doors.

    SNP first – showing guys with YES bags over their shoulders, knocking on a door and asking “Why do you think Scotland should be an independent country?”

    Labour next – The backs of proud Labour activists walking down a road in the pouring rain.

    Letting people think voting SNP is another vote for independence.

    How low can they get.

  96. CameronB Brodie says:

    Woe, woe and a lot of times woe! Chortle. 😉

  97. call me dave says:

    @Jim McIntosh

    “Why do you think Scotland should be an independent country?”

    Noticed that too…obviously not meant for viewers in Scotland.

    Forget poll the results will be better.

    Dim Jim’s personal ratings are of the ‘Titanic’ proportions even among the labour seats that were covered in the poll.

    Come back Johann Lamont!

  98. Robert Peffers says:

    @Kenneth Shaw says:31 March, 2015 at 6:50 pm:

    “When will they realise that their ‘Baw’ is well and truly bust……..”

    Well, Kenneth, as, “The baws oan the slates”, at present, I expect they won’t know until they get it down again.

  99. caz-m says:

    ScottieDog 10.08pm

    Re Labour rebels.

    I have been suggesting for a wee while now that If we can get a strong SNP contingent at Wesdtminster, then you will start to see the English Labour Party start to fragment.

    England is screaming out for a centre left Party. The SNP could be the trigger that kick starts the birth of a new Party or even regional, centre left English Parties.

    No wonder Miliband and Co are dreading the SNP invasion.

  100. Sean McNulty says:

    Better Together may have been more contemptuous, condescending nd just plain insane but North British Labour GE15 is now challenging it as the most dishonest campaign in UK political history.

    8th May: “When we told you thousands of times just before this election that the largest party forms the Govt you didn’t think we meant this election too, did you? Whoopsadaisy.”

    Actually, scrub the comment above BT’S condescension and contempt being worse than this.

  101. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @CameronB –

    Frankie Howerd? FFS, it’s uncanny – like he was in the room!

    ‘Oh, please yourselves!’

  102. Caledonius says:

    If they wish to under estimate the sheer scale of SNP support then let them. Polls have been rock solid for months and everyone who has decided to vote SNP since last September is not about to change their minds in the face of feeble slab lies and some dodgy tickering with this new poll. Let them under estimate us… they will be in for a hell of a shock come May.

  103. ronnie anderson says:

  104. caz-m says:

    BBC Scotland and STV reminding us AGAIN, that A&E targets have been missed.

    We are just hopeless at everything, aren’t we.

    Or at least that is the message our media like to try and get out to the viewers.

    Our media really are the pits.

    A wee example of BBC hypocrisy. The BBC told us today that if Iran can get the Oil exporting sanctions lifted on it, then it could get it’s economy up and running again.

    Yet they tell Scotland that it would end up a basket case if it were to depend on oil as a major export.

  105. bookie from hell says:

    100 business chiefs have signed a letter telegraph saying Labour threaten Britains recovery

    One is Bob Dudley BP

    Better Together

    Oil giant BP boss Bob Dudley has warned there are “big uncertainties” for the company over the possibility of Scotland becoming independent.

    “We have a lot of people in Scotland. We have a lot of investments in Scotland. My personal view is that Great Britain is great and it ought to stay together,” added Mr Dudley.

    Alistair Darling, head of the Better Together campaign, said Mr Dudley’s comments marked the biggest intervention by a major business so far in the referendum debate.

    Alistair will be sucking this thumb tonight

  106. galamcennalath says:

    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”
    ? Adolf Hitler

    Aye, and that didn’t exactly work out well for him! Not yer ideal role model.

  107. ronnie anderson says:

    I would think we,ve got the measure of Mr Dudley & Ian Wood , both are Tax evaderists.

  108. Almannysbunnet says:

    On day 81 of Alex’s “The Dream Shall Never Die” he says
    “According to my labour party friends, Mr Murphy is not really interested in the referendum. He is out of favour in London and is eyeing Johann Lamont’s job in Scotland. If so, they are daft. She is worth ten of him.” He wasn’t wrong was he?

  109. galamcennalath says:

    Just think about the reactions across Unionism, from Labour in Scotland through to the hysterical right wing MSM down south …. I literally can’t get my head round this …

    After lying, scaremongering and cheating their way to winning the referendum, did they honestly not expect consequences !?

  110. GrahamB says:

    Nobody I’ve met on the Glasgow North doorsteps over the past few weeks is buying this ‘biggest party’ nonsense. Just let them bang on, it will bore most people and reduce the time they spend on other ‘policies’, which all seem to be about devolved matters. Anyone who believes this is probably beyond redemption and going to vote Labour regardless. It’s been very difficult to find folk still voting Labour in areas which were the epitome of ‘monkey-with-a-red-rosette’ territory.

  111. caz-m says:

    Just thinking of all those Scottish Unionist MPs being stripped of their MP titles. They must feel very vulnerable, naked and frightened.

    In my area, it is now a straight fight between a lady who puts Scotland first, Mhairi Black and a wee bitter unionist guy, called Dougie Alexander.

  112. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @bookie from hell (11.19) –

    Where is Darling anyway? Anyone know?

  113. Edward says:

    Note that ITV’s News at Ten used a video package from September last year of Yes canvassers, making out that it was SNP canvassers today!

    Complete disgrace in trying to make out that it was all about independence.

    Sat open mouthed when I saw this miss-representation

    As has been mentioned here, ITV then showed some Labour ‘canvassers’ (noted different weather conditions)
    was surprised they managed to find Labour canvassers given that they are a tad thin on the ground

  114. silver19 says:

    OT: Was watching Sky News paper review, They had story in the Sun that Ed Miliband wants the next James Bond movie with a female James Bond, But the close up of the story there was side story much more interesting.

    Jim Murphy has been urged to turn to Tony Blair to halt the SNP surge. Party sources say the ex-PM should campaign in Scotland to win back traditional Labour voters, The move would spark a furious backlash, as Blair is now seen as a hugely divisive figure. But with the polls not looking good for Labour in Scotland it maybe worth a gamble. Aides to Mr Murphy refused to rule out asking Tony Blair to help.

    If Tony Blair gets involved there will probably be no Labour MP’s in Scotland, Sounds good to me.

  115. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Titter ye not! 😉

  116. Stoker says:

    @ Caledonius & Call Me Dave.

    The reason i asked where you got that figure of 8000 from was because i thought you had a factual source we didn’t know about.

    Not that long ago, after the referendum, the Rev did an article on Slabbers mythical membership numbers. It was, as usual, a good article with a lot of good posts and information contained within said posts.

    If i remember correctly most of us had their membership down to around somewhere between 3K and 7K.

    Since then they have promoted various recruitment drives from dodgy begging emails to the 2 for a pound type bribe which turns out to be nearer a tenner in reality.

    Despite these dodgy bribes the polls have held fairly solid, some even showing a further drop in support for Slabber branch, and i can’t see how they would have 8000 members. Surely there isn’t that many gullible folk in all of Scotland.

    Perhaps you were just being kind and generous towards them, or they’ve been out mugging folk again.

    Have they brought back press gangs?

    Apologies for not being able to find that article but i did try.

  117. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Silver 19. Well it is April fools day.

  118. Still Positive. says:

    Aye Ronnie, wonder if we will be able to tell the difference between the spoofs and the real thing. Will be fun though to try!

  119. Tackety Beets says:

    Blair ? What yon Blair ….. Get him up here now !

    As New Labour slid gracefully to the right ooer there close to the Cons , has the Unions actually stood and watched ?

    Is Bob Crow etc all continuing to support it , Labour Policies ?

    Did I hear on news , in the car , that about 30 rUK Labour MPs may like the SNP manifesto ?
    Murphy and Milliblunder may find keeping control of them all a bit tricky .
    Off to catch Tonights news recordings , sounds very last year according to posts above .

  120. Caledonius says:

    @ Stoker

    No problems, and heck im happy to be wrong about 8k if means even less support for labour. If it is 3k or so all the better, they should struggle even more in the election ground battle. To think the Greens may have more members… changed days indeed.

  121. Tackety Beets says:

    Snode1965 @ 5.29pm

    ” Eat sleep lie repeat etc “. Aye very good .

    Smash hit by ” Fatboy & Slim “

  122. Caledonius says:

    Blair huh? Personally I wonder if they will airdrop in the mighty Prescott to once again tell us to scrap the Scottish football team for a team UK – that always goes down well.

  123. Col says:

    This has to be one of the most shameful political campaigns ever by any political party on the planet. Labour and the other unionist parties big problem is that when you tell a big lie you have to keep telling bigger and even more ridiculous lies to keep the original illusion going.
    So what is the truth?
    The truth is that Scotland has been robbed blind because we have been lied to by these very political parties and we will continue to be robbed not just of our money but our dignity if we allow these people to get away with it.
    That is the truth put as simply as it can be put.

  124. Michael McCabe says:

    Lord Ashcroft to retire from the house of lords. but his polling activities will continue.

  125. Chic McGregor says:

    BBC Scotland to announce it is switching allegiance to independence following dissatisfaction in its Scottish staff.

  126. KennyG says:

    “A simple fact”

    Does that mean if I don’t get it I’m simple?

    What order do facts go in anyway.

    Simple, complicated and hard?

  127. john king says:

    CameronB and Ian Botherhood (ed “you misspelled Brotherhood John”) meh.
    “Oh no missus nooo stop it”

    Ahem Muttley79

  128. john king says:

    Chic McGregor says @ 4.04am
    “BBC Scotland to announce it is switching allegiance to independence following dissatisfaction in its Scottish staff.”

    Eh… naw… I got nuthin,
    I’m away to pick some spaghetti off the spaghetti tree for dinner. 😉

  129. Ken500 says:

    Unfortunately Bob Crow died.

    Bo Dudley destroyed his own company. The Russians nearly put him in jail. BP the worst company in economic history. Oil Company bosses who supported NO are like turkey’s voting for Christmas.

    Unionists have destroyed their own Parties with their lies. Blair and Brown destroyed the world .They should be in jail.

    Westminster tries to destroy the Scottish economy. They have cost Scotland £10Billion a year. Total taxes raises in Scotland £54Billion+ Total taxes raised in the UK £466Billon. Total taxes raised in the rest of the UK £412Billion (£90Billion borrowed).

    Scotland gets £54Billion back, but has lost £4Billion+ a year in Oil revenues (because of 11% – increase in Oil taxes up to 80%+ in 2011Budget) – £16Billion. Lost £1Billion a year in on ‘loss leading’ drink (social costs) and £Billion on Trident/illegal wars. £4Billion on loan repayments Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend.

    Scotland would be far better off with fiscal autonomy/Independence. Thatcher secretly took all the Oil revenues and destroyed the Scottish economy. Westminster secrecy and lies. The Official Secrets Acts covers up Westminster crimes. Child abusers, Fraudster and murderers. Where is the Chilcot verdict? It is being covered up by unelected civil servants, wasting public money. HS2 is a total waste of money, no business case. Osbourne and his associates are making £Billions from it. It will make journeys to Scotland even longer. There will be no parity with air flights. Anywhere but Heathrow. It takes a day (and a night) to get through it.

    The ConDems elected to protect NHS/Education cut both. They are sanctioning the most vulnerable and starving people to death. They are despicable liars. The wealthy who caused the crash have have got wealthier.

  130. Geoff Huijer says:

    The usual excellent article dispelling the nonsense
    from those that want their own way and will have a
    tantrum if they don’t get it.

    This site’s success surely comes from the hard work
    put in, the reasoned argument, all with handy links
    to the facts backing up said argument.

    Meanwhile in BritNatLand:

    ‘Aye, but it’s in Wings so it doesn’t count.’

    ‘But there are links to…’

    *fingers in ears, eyes shut, shouting*



  131. Ken500 says:

    US/UK destroyed the Iranian Gov in the 1950’s Churchill took all Iran’s Oil. When the Iranian PM objected and wanted some of it. US/UK M15/CIA destabilised the country and put the PM in jail. The deposed Shah was reinstated. It is all documented in (secret) Official documents now released in Washington. ‘Planet Oil’ documented and showed the evidence.

    US/UK (France) subsequently destabilised regimes all over the Middle/East (and the rest of the world) causing death, destruction and poverty. How is the pipe line to Israel is getting on. Blair syphoning off the profits. Is it worth it?

    The campaign was similar to the anti Referendum campaign. Trying to discredit Alex Salmond etc. Telling lies. Causing poverty in Scotland. Using the Official secrets Act to cover up the lies. The McCrone Report and Thatcher. Documents signed ‘this must be kept secret’. Thatcher’s Minister resigned.

  132. heedtracker says:

    BBC R4 news/politics have never mentioned or discussed this one big SLabour con of the election but they have Ruth Davidson on next with Jim Naughty.

    No doubt Naughty will clear up any misunderstanding. Something like, so Ruth what does the polled hung parliament mean to you? Not holding breath here.

  133. Defo says:

    JM making a rare appearance on R4 Today right now.
    “we can turn this around”
    April fool

  134. Tackety Beets says:

    Thanks Ken

    Ref Bob Crow , apologies to all .

    I was unaware of his passing.

  135. mistercorzi says:

    JM: ” ….. 1923 was the last time …. ”
    Interviewer: ” For viewers/listeners that may not understand your reference to 1923 could you explain exactly what happened in parliament after the 1923 election.”

  136. Fred says:

    Kid you not, the Saturday Herald (only day I buy it) crossword has for 13 across, “Dribbling from mouth”, 7 letters.
    SLABBER. I’m sure I’m right.

  137. Chic McGregor says:

    Nice one Fred. (If it isn’t an April Fool’s)

  138. Fred says:

    Naw Chic, I have three letters, SLABBER it must be. The compiler will have to watch his step. Gardham runs a tight ship. 🙂

  139. Leslie Morrison says:

    This must now be the most boring lie in this General Election. Now Clegg is trying to bribe us with greater paternity leave. and Balls – well he’s taking a load of balls. Have they not learnt a thing from the referendum? We simply are not listening to them – and we’re not because they are full of venom and hatred for all that is Scottish; they are scared of the consequences of their own failures and economy with the truth in Westminster. They are a poisonous lot and best flushed out of our systems and psyche. I am so angry that not one politician from Westminster has come to Scotland to explain their policies – they come north to bash us via attacking the governing party of Scotland. They are a disgrace the whole lot of them and I await their demise with relief.

  140. paul in okinawa says:

    A major feckup reaching unparalleled political heights.

  141. Chic McGregor says:

    Reminds me of a crossword clue I came up with a few months ago:

    “Where politicians are ‘monstered’ so you cannot tell who is in which party? (10)”

  142. Fred says:

    Stumped Chic?

  143. tony philpin says:

    The endlessly repeated Jimbo quote and lie that “the largest party always forms the government” followed by “when was the last time the largest oarty did not form the government” when challenged is easily countered.

    1) The last time a minority government was formed was by the Labour Party itself in December 1923 – so it is actually a crucial part of Labour history and a clear precedent;

    2) Basic arithmetic says minority governments are the obvious outcome when the two major parties both poll less than 40% of the electorate (or 70-75% between them). As this has been a rare situation up to now then so have been minority governments;

    3) A minority government is the logical outcome when the electoral consensus is that two or more parties of the left or two or more parties of the right can agree on the main points in a government programme and avoid losing a vote of confidence.

    4) We are now in a multi-party system so the outcome is much more likely to be a grouping of parties than a dominant single party.

    5) Gordon Brown tried (but failed) to form a minority government in 2010 so he clearly did not believe in Murphy’s law.

  144. Chic McGregor says:


  145. Fred says:

    Took a while Chic but I got it! 🙂

  146. Will Podmore says:

    In 2010 Nick Clegg said that in the event of no party’s winning an absolute majority he had an obligation to talk first to the party with the most seats. He believed that the party with the biggest mandate should have first go at forming a government. This was his political decision, not a constitutional duty.
    And in 2010, that’s what he did. So it has arguably now become the constitutional convention. He would probably do the same again this time round, if he gets the chance.

  147. Almannysbunnet says:

    If you have an important point to make, don’t try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time – a tremendous whack.
    Winston Churchill
    And that is exactly what Murphy and McTernan are doing.

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