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Selling the jerseys

Posted on September 03, 2020 by

Let’s be clear about something straight away – we’re NOT about to write an article in defence of Tony Abbott. He IS a sexist, a misogynist and a climate change denier (and a homophobe), and as far as we can ascertain he’s NOT actually all that good at trade either. So even though the bar for improving the competence of the UK government is astonishingly low, we don’t want him in it any more than anyone else does.

But this is still an incredibly brainless thing to say:

And it explains a lot about what’s gone wrong everywhere.

To understand why, readers, imagine yourselves for a moment as Lionel Scaloni, the manager of Argentina’s national football team. Imagine that you’re picking the side for the opening match of the Copa America. Do you give this guy a game?

But what if it turned out Messi didn’t believe in climate change? What then?

One of this site’s favourite quotes is from the 17th-century French cleric Armand Jean du Plessis, generally known as Cardinal Richelieu. It goes like this:

“If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.”

It’s perhaps the first recorded reference in history to something now often known as the “purity spiral”, which is the most destructive force ever to afflict progressive liberal politics. And the short version of it is that you can never have anyone on your team unless they’re absolutely flawlessly perfect in every single way – with the terms of that “perfection” subject to instant and arbitrary change at any moment.

It’s a phenomenon with which Wings Over Scotland is of course intimately familiar. More or less since we launched in 2011 we’ve been the subject of hysterical and bitter attacks from opponents and allies alike over every imaginable kind of “imperfection”, from swearing too much (although we never actually swear on the site) to believing in biological sex and just about every other conceivable prejudice under the sun.

But it’s not just vile asking-for-it cyber-monsters such as us. You can be as pleasant and mild and utterly inoffensive as possible and still find yourself on the wrong side of a screaming witch-hunt, like iScot magazine did a couple of years back when it dared to put a rather elegant parody of a famous painting on its front cover.

(The middle one was Arlene Foster, if you’re wondering.)

Or you can be painstakingly, agonisingly hyper-woke and still get it in the neck from the even-woker-than-thou, like The National did in 2017, because it’s never possible to be pure enough for the Purity Police. If it’ll serve their personal agenda in any way, they’ll always find something to hang you for.

It’s a point we laid out in detail almost four and a half years ago, and even in a history of predictions which we must immodestly note is pretty damn good, we may never have written anything more prescient.

(Although we could make a decent argument for this June 2011 piece, written before Wings even existed in its current format, in which we warned Scottish Labour that they were heading down a disastrous road and that that wasn’t only bad news for them.)

We’re not sure if it’s a coincidence that so many of the statistical indicators of good governance in Scotland, from education to health and crime and most other areas, all of which had been improving since the SNP took power in 2007, started moving in the wrong direction when Nicola Sturgeon took over and began allocating ministerial jobs according to people’s genitalia rather than their competence.

But we don’t think sex is the reason. Correlation is not causation, and plenty of males in the Scottish Government have also ballsed things up over the period in question.

The problem is that positions of power in the Scottish Government are seemingly now handed out according to how well you toe the current line of ideological orthodoxy, which is the only rational explanation for why the party has created such an unholy and embarrassing mess in its contorted and corrupt attempts to exclude the supremely able Joanna Cherry from Holyrood.

Lionel Messi’s job is to play football. If you want to win at football you put him in your team, you don’t spend all your time looking for non-football-related reasons to kick him out of it so that you can lose but in a way you get to feel morally superior about.

(It’d probably have been better to use the widely-detested Cristiano Ronaldo for this analogy, but we couldn’t find a good YouTube compilation. Or if we’d wanted to stay closer to home we might have noted that Rangers chose Graeme Souness to end their decade in the doldrums in the 1980s, rather than someone cuddlier.)

Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and Donald Trump are some of the most (quite rightly) mocked and despised humans ever to walk the face of the planet, but their respective parties knew that normal voters don’t vote according to what either mainstream media satirists or a tiny, over-amplified handful of shrieking nutters on Twitter say, so they chose them to lead anyway because they wanted to win.

(When you point out that fact, of course, the shrieking nutters immediately leap on you and say “Ah, so you want to be an evil racist Nazi like Farage and Trump!”, because – and we simply can’t emphasise this enough – these people are really, really, REALLY stupid and most of them have also demonstrated repeatedly that they couldn’t win any sort of vote if they were up against Jimmy Savile, Harold Shipman and Myra Hindley.)

If you want to win a fight, you pick the people to fight for you that your opponents hate the most, because those are the people they fear. Leavers and Trumpists aren’t the brightest of people – look what happened when they got what they wanted – but they were smart enough to at least know that. It’s a shame that our First Minister and what appears to be a steadily increasing percentage of the Yes movement don’t, just when we’re told it’s about to matter again.

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    308 to “Selling the jerseys”

    1. tartanfever says:

      Abbot would be an appointee, Sturgeon is elected and requires more scrutiny.

      So as I believe that biological sex is a reality and that opponents of mine should be free to criticise me as they see fit and vice versa – using Sturgeon’s logic i should no longer vote for the SNP.

      Good job.

    2. Beaker says:

      It would be better to bite the tongue and get someone in who can fix a problem, then get rid of them later. Sometimes you need to jump into the slime to get what you want.

    3. Dave Beveridge says:

      Aside from all that, Lionel Messi could believe something really seriously wacky, like a man can be a woman just because he says he is, and I’d still pick him for Scotland.

    4. Astonished says:

      o/t .I think Abbott an appointment to take the heat off johnston. Media management is the only thing johnston is interested in.

      The SNP wokeratti are losing and will never be forgiven. Yusuf, Robertson, Daddy Bear, Somerville, MacLeod and Oswald. More and more folk are seeing you for what you are – the thought police.

      Ms Sturgeon seems incapable of ridding the party of them. And for that reason she has to go.

    5. When I think of the way the e.u. And world leaders lined up to speak out against Scottish freedom it reminds me of the words of the song though all the world betrays thee and the way the SNP are acting now the words in the poem and all around them bleeds and dies our Caledonian pride

    6. mike cassidy says:

      And the purity police don’t even want us to have jerseys we can sell

      https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1301072453939204099

    7. Polly says:

      Indeed. Anyone can be impugned once the bidding war for top adherent starts. I still have that magazine cover in a cupboard. I want us to win next time and we must chose our best to do that. It should also mean working alongside folk on our side we’re not keen on, find common ground where we can and try to ignore the bits we don’t like until afterwards, especially as time is limited.

      The best on our side contains Joanna Cherry and Nicola Sturgeon, they both should have a place, as should anyone else who wants to help. The other side didn’t disown the OO last time since they knew they would bring a certain segment with them, we must follow that precept and not alienate or cut out any help we can get. The only imperative is we’re all serious about pushing in the same direction and pushing hard.

    8. Desimond says:

      Its all smoke and mirrors at the moment.
      No-one really believes theres gonna be a big push next year, do they?

      Nicola Sturgeons announces plans for the year that include Independence issue but the Covid Economy seems to be higher priority and the Independence highlight simply just died a death and now we have Nicola commenting on Lorraine aboout Boris or on Sky about Westminster appointed Trade envoys..at what point does she start saying “Well my actual remit is…”

      Is Ian Murray set to do a Douglas Ross and step in as Labour leader at Holyrood…suddenly a Unionist pact might seem quite cosy..

    9. Big Jock says:

      I don’t agree with abortion.

      I know for a fact there are many people on the left, or liberals who think this is misogynistic and fundamentalist. However I couldn’t care less. I would vote to ban abortion except in cases of rape or risk to the mother.

      Does this make me incapable of being a good person or of being good at my actual job. No!

      It’s subjective. Some people would think it makes me a bad person, some would just disagree, some would agree, some couldn’t care less.

    10. Bob Mack says:

      It seems the SNP have become immobilised in a strait jacket of their own design. In trying to introduce legislation which keep these minorities happy they have stitch by stitch become in fact prisoners of their own bespoke tailors.

      There are scissors,but will they use them?

    11. Maff says:

      Anyone who wants power should never ever be given it regardless of what personality they present

    12. JohnMcDonaldish says:

      Abbott‘s is a very public appointment, so who he is and what his views are will send a very odd signal to the world about way the UK wants to do business. Trade agreements are relevant in dealing with climate change and human rights. His non-trade views do matter and I really can’t fault Nicola for taking such a line in her live Sky interview this morning.

    13. David Caledonia says:

      Germany had go balls, england had ed balls, now we have the SNP slaggers on here, with no balls, just step aside if your not up for the fight and let the rest of us do what needs to be done ………. MEMBER 1827617

      The end justifies the means

    14. Bob Mack says:

      @David Caledonia,

      You just write balls.

    15. David Caledonia says:

      Any supporter that does not vote for the SNP come the election, to me is no better than the unionists we are up against, and if labour get voted into power in scotland, I will never forgive any of you

    16. A Person says:

      This is very true. Nineteen out of twenty leading liberals would rather indulge their batshit obsession on language and “oppression hierarchies” than do anything concrete to improve people’s lives. They simply insult the public and are then amazed that they lose.

      Look at UK Labour. Many good people and good ideas, but when a considerable number of their MPs come out with stuff like “white people are problematic” or “debate is a form of privilege” or “punctuality is colonial”- like, what reason is there for any normal person, white or otherwise, to vote for headcases like that?

    17. David Caledonia says:

      No members number, no reply to the trolls on here, especially the idiot that keeps commenting on my posts

    18. Bob Mack says:

      @David Calddonia,

      I’m gratdful. Really.

    19. A Person says:

      -Bob Mack-

      “Keep these minorities happy”.

      Not really Bob, I think most members of minority groups were just looking to be treated equally and with respect, which obviously doesn’t happen all the time but was a position which we have been moving towards as a society. This woke stuff is the imposition of a handful of crazy theories on society by fanatics, most of whom are privileged white people.

    20. Bryan Weir says:

      “But what if it turned out Messi didn’t believe in climate change? What then?”

      I’ll qualify this by saying that you have done some great work in the past but let’s face it, this is a load of shite that you would not have written had it not been for Sturgeon’s comment.

      This constant bitterness and venom against the SNP and Sturgeon does no one any good, least of all yourself.

    21. holymacmoses says:

      Interesting piece. I’m not sure that Nicola Sturgeon has choices any more. I also think that she is being controlled by some people who claim ‘morality’ as their goal rather than by her own moral thinking. She seems to me to be a bit of a climber, like Ruth Davidson. BUT the latter chose the accessible Lordships whereas Nicola wishes Sainthood and that, as we know, is a matter of tastes and times and not a building in London. However she has been successful in diminishing the power of any opposition which really would challenge her actions. Wings on Twitter, Craig Murray, Joanna Cherry and of course Alex Salmond have been given the ‘treatment’ and become disgraceful offenders in one way or another.
      That historical ‘purity’ which you date back to Richelieu and just to be ‘argumentative’, seems to me to be a truly fundamentally Scottish trait. I’d say it began in literature with Willie Shack et al and the plays on ‘kingship’ where it’s determined (a la James 6th/1st) that kings are pre-ordained and untouchable – however they also have to be ‘pure’
      ‘I’ll make a voyage to the Holy Land
      To wash this blood off from my guilty hand.
      (King Henry, Act 5 Scene 6)’
      I am also minded of ‘The Private Confessions and Memoirs of a Justified Sinner’ whereby some people are able to forgive themselves, especially if they feel that they have been ‘chosen’

      At the moment the planet seems to be ruled by a selection of openly flawed and dangerous people and the few who don’t fall into that category are like Sturgeon ‘secretly’ flawed and thus compelled to do the bidding of others and ‘justifiably’ destroy anyone who challenges them by all means available.

    22. Scozzie says:

      Please can peeps donate whatever sheckles you can spare to Craig Murray’s defence fund on his contempt of court charges.

      This is a travesty of justice and the independence movement needs to protect its best and honest voices (whiles the wolves of the MSM get off scot free with blatant jigsaw identification). We can’t afford to lose Craig in our corner.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/09/craig-murray-defence-appeal-renewed/

    23. Bob Mack says:

      @A Person,

      No I’m sorry, but the SNP welcomed these fanatics into the party fold and to show how inclusive they were, allowed them into positions of influence over party policy.

      However fanatics are not inclusive ,they are exclusive. They show that now with the idiocy from within the NEC, which has created mayhem within the party .

      It is the enemy within.

    24. susanXX says:

      I think the Rev has made a valid point about the SNPs ( and Labour and Libdems) dystopian purity spiral.

    25. susanXX says:

      @Bob Mack @2.13, I agree with you completely.

    26. Republicofscotland says:

      In this day and age where anything offends easily, I suppose Sturgeon is just attempting to cover all of her bases. A lesson that she might have learned after having that odious picture taken with Alistair Campbell.

    27. Bob Mack says:

      Can you believe David Caledonia quoting Machiavelli as his moral compass? Get David on the NEC . He belongs there.

    28. msean says:

      Great point.

    29. Socrates MacSporran says:

      OFF-TOPIC

      Does Annie Wells’ latest boob, tweeting praise for herself from the wrong twitter account, as revelaed by The Jouker in the National, move her up the Thickos chart?

      Not that she needs it, but, I feel we really should offer encouragement to wee Annie.

    30. Confused says:

      At some point – bridge builders, nuclear plant safety supervisors, airline pilots, surgeons and critical care nurses will be chosen for their ideological purity. But nothing will happen, as the inevitable disasters will be efficiently covered up.

      “best man for the job” – will probably see you cast into the outer darkness, reeking of whiteness, patriarchy, meritocracy, sexism and every other form of oppression.

      “woke-ism” has a long history; it used to be called “political correctness” and first appeared about 1990, but it got laughed out of town – much beloved of stand-up comedians tho’, endless material produced.

      – before then there was the “right on”-brigade, usually middle class people preaching “class war” and “revolutionary communism”; the UK still had some factories then.

      Before then we had May 68. It’s always been there, it just keeps coming again. They just go round again, trying it on with a new generation of “chumps”, until they succeed. They have, finally, won, it seems.

      The youngsters have no experience and thus no context, not as clever as they think they are and utterly credulous, they have supped on the meaningless dribble of judith butler etc.

      – more subtle minds have whipped them up into a neo “red guards” (sneaky fucker, that Mao) and now they preach a “new puritanism” online and conduct witch hunts via social media.

      But for every action comes a reaction – and this is people, usually ironically, for the windup, for the bantz – moving to the “alt right”; the real trouble starts when the irony gets dropped.

      – that this “mass herding” via psychological manipulation and modern technology, affecting both (a fake) “left” and (a fake) “right” might be deliberate and planned from a long way out, is disturbing.

    31. Republicofscotland says:

      Socrates MacSporran.

      @2.29pm.

      Well who else is going to praise Wee incoherent Annie if not herself?

    32. Mr C M Howie says:

      Quality writing.

    33. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile Walter Mitty aka Douglas Ross, has been told to stop telling porkie pies.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18695047.stop-lying-douglas-ross-warned-once-in-a-generation-indyref-claim/

    34. A Person says:

      -Bob Mack-

      I think I have misunderstood you. What I mean is that this “woke clique” claim to be promoting an agenda designed to “help” members of marginalised groups, but the average member of these marginalised groups (e.g. a person who happens to be gay, or trans, or black) isn’t really up for banning everything and giving tons of power to a clique.

    35. MaggieC says:

      An excellent column from Kenny McAskill in the Scotsman about the Snp’s NEC and how the rules for selection for Holyrood should be overturned ,

      https://archive.is/Up89U

      I also see that Angus Robertson has announced that he’s passed vetting and standing for selection in Edinburgh Central seat , All very convenient that the NEC made the rule change that would have meant Joanna Cherry would have to resign her seat as an Mp if she had been selected as the candidate for Edinburgh Central

      https://mobile.twitter.com/AngusRobertson/status/1301406980385501184

      The whole thing stinks and I’ve not seen the same outcry against Neil Gray’s announcement that he wants to stand for selection in the Airdrie &Shotts seat .

    36. auld highlander says:

      There’s a indy poll running over on the Dundee evening telegraph with 61% in favour of remain.

      click time.

      https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/poll-how-would-scottish-people-vote-if-a-second-independence-referendum-is-held-next-year/

    37. ahundredthidiot says:

      CovidDoctorsNetwork.com has been set up in Australia as the response to SARS CoV-2 is now being perceived to have the potential to kill more people than the virus, Doctors are starting to stand up and good on them.

      Just for sport though….try googling it without the capitals in the title, or just as a ‘covid doctors network’…..algorithm hides it. Now, why would that be, I wonder.

    38. Republicofscotland says:

      Auld Hghlander

      DC Thomson & Company, Limited owns the newspaper along with shares in ITV and Southern TV, and a few other British nationalist minor news rags. I’d take the poll with a pinch of salt.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Thomson

    39. Alan D says:

      That’s because Neil Gray has agreed to step down as a MP to stand as a MSP.

      https://twitter.com/neilgraysnp/status/1300538496235589632

      I think Cherry should do the same. She’s wasted in Westminster, whatever her reasons for holding onto that seat are.

    40. iain mhor says:

      Well, maybe not swear in the articles, but BTL.. hehe.

      Anyway, fair point. I believe the Athenians appointed (‘volunteered’) many, by ability from all walks – whether the office was desired or not – sometimes (loosely) via their ‘Boule’ system, or merely ‘Sortition’.

      General assemblies (ecclesia) were open to all eligible citizens and literally open – in that there was no party system. Basically anyone could just pitch up and get stuck in, with a majority vote by hands, or by casting black and white clay ‘ostraca’ (from whence derived contemporary ‘blackball’ – not a racial slur) and hence to be ostracised.

      Yiu could deem them literally Citizen Assemblies; and far from viewing public participation with disdain (sound familiar) it was actively encouraged; to the point of offering payment to participate and keep the quorate numbers up.
      Which improved involvement no end I don’t doubt! Your average citizen was no more inclined to engage in politics than they are today obviously.

      Is that Government by mob, or a majority of randoms (both able and err..not so able) and hope it evens out? Well not exactly; the higher the office the more discerning they were to select for ability first and foremost – if only by necessity.

      Nepotism had greater limits, when any day the ‘City’ needed able generals and government to hold the barbarians and other ‘Smarter’ city states at bay. Choose unwisely and loss of office was the least of your worries – loss of the state was at stake.

      I’ve forgotton my point. Yeah, err appointment by ability – yup. Risk the loss of the State through ill choice, risible ideology and nepotism – nope.
      Athenian democracy? Well it has its moments, but hardly perfect even then.

    41. Ottomanboi says:

      In Islamic State you could never be Muslim enough for the deviant thugs that roamed the streets of their fantasy caliphate looking for victims. They, of course, could get away with anything, rape, mutilation, murder, slavery, child abuse. That’s the way with the elect everything they do is intentionally pure.
      That is an extreme case, but once power and its notions of authority kicks in the slide into the pure hell of “i can get away with that and nobody can touch me” does also. Like the current mantra, it’s the science, the baseball bat smashes all dissent.
      Islamic State did Islam no favours. Wokery will do Scotland, the SNP and the just fight for independence none either.
      Scotland needs a radical reboot…. up the fundamentals.

    42. Calyx says:

      Your articles have me saying ‘yes – this!’ out loud. I wish people would pay attention to them and make the changes we need. It’s not just about indy it’s about capable government as well. SNP are Labour Mk II.

      Also I feel we do still need some Tories, Lab, Lib Dems, Green in Scotgov to give balance.

      Wish indy was a given then it would just be all parties for the Scottish good.

    43. Scozzie says:

      Maggie C @ 1.41pm
      Now that the competition of JC has been prevented from standing (god can’t believe I’m even saying that), Angus can ride along on the crest of a wave of SNP glorious backing…internal corruption no sshhuuusshh!

      I really hope there’s a bloody good non-aligned independence supporting independent candidate to fights that seat against him. He really doesn’t deserve to win that seat.

    44. Wee Chid says:

      David Caledonia says:
      3 September, 2020 at 2:04 pm
      “Any supporter that does not vote for the SNP come the election, to me is no better than the unionists we are up against, and if labour get voted into power in Scotland, I will never forgive any of you”

      Even if it turns out that the SNP have absolutely no intention of ever delivering independence?

    45. iain mhor says:

      @Ronald Fraser

      Just to answer your last question on the previous thread – ‘Has there ever been a good time’? Yes, ‘Today’
      ‘Yesterday’ Scotland thought this is all there was, this is all we had and all that we deserved – but not now.

      Other than that; if you are having a good time, then it’s a good time whatever time you live in – and that ebbs and flows with circumstance.

    46. Beaker says:

      @Bob Mack says:
      3 September, 2020 at 2:03 pm
      David Caledonia,
      “You just write balls.”

      That had me rolling. Talk about an open invitation 🙂

    47. James Barr Gardner says:

      There is talk of Scots living abroad to be given a vote in Scottish Independence I wonder WHY ? Perhaps because the Unionists could be up to 1 million short, not necessarily voters tho !

      It’s all to do with demographics over 400K elderly folk have died since 2014, the NO majority was 400K ! NOTE ! 400K of young folk NOW eligible to vote since 2014 !
      So how is stacking up for the unionist vote now ? Not good.

      Daily Record circulation is now ONLY 1/3 of what it was in 2012 ! The only newspaper with no drop in circulation is the METRO part of the Daily Mail Group owned by Jonathan Harold Esmond Vere Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere. Who has non-domicile (non-dom) tax status despite owning stately home, Ferne House, and his status as a Freeman of the City of London !
      So be VERY AWARE of your wee free paper !!!!!

      On the subject of EU Citizens who voted NO to stay in the EU due to Project Fear and LIES, they have a Vote to stay in the EU in An Independent Scotland. HOWEVER the question is will They be able to Vote AT ALL come January 2021 as Boris could remove ALL their voting rights on a whim as he does !

      The Pensioners (Plus WASPI Women especially) are the worst treated and have the lowest pension in Europe, they were constantly lied too all the way through IndyRef1 by Project Fear, what of their wrath ?
      Will they cross and burn the bridge ?

      The the present Covid-19 Pandemic and the sheer incompetence of Westminster ?

      NOW you know why the Brit State needs ex-pat Scots, but it is more likely they need their POSTAL VOTES, to be counted in England by a Company owned by a Tory (Peerage awaiting), that is the only way they can win ! The ONLY way YES can LOSE is COMPLACENCY !

      REMEMBER “It’s not the people who vote that count, it’s the people who count the votes.” Joseph Stalin

      Folk must Register and Folk must VOTE and Folk MUST NOT USE THE POSTAL OPTION !

      VOTE IN SCOTLAND AND HAVE YOUR VOTES COUNTED IN SCOTLAND BY SCOTS !!!!!!!!!

    48. Scozzie says:

      Maggie C
      I meant to also include I agreed with your Angus comment 🙂

    49. Big Jock says:

      Auld Highlander that poll is now running at 56% for independence. However I wouldn’t take any newspapers own poll seriously.

    50. CameronB Brodie says:

      The simplest and most effective way to support corporate responsibility and open democracy, is through incorporating a legal respect for the human genome into one’s legal constitution. So you’re on to plumbs if you live in Scotland.

      Enhancing Women’s Protection Against Gender-Based Violence
      https://www.idlo.int/what-we-do/initiatives/enhancing-womens-protection-against-gender-based-violence

    51. Hank Rearden says:

      This is quite a chilling concept

    52. kapelmeister says:

      The leader of the SNP, at a time when Yes is polling above 50%, should be preoccupied with getting us out the UK. She should not be jumping in to comment on pending UK govt appointments, thereby signalling that she expects Scotland to be staying in the union.

    53. paul says:

      Scozzie says:
      3 September, 2020 at 3:23 pm

      Maggie C
      I meant to also include I agreed with your Angus comment

      As do I.
      He certainly looks like the continuity leader that Nicola Sturgeon would approve of when she moves on.
      With Daddy bear as the fire(guard)brand deputy.

    54. Dogbiscuit says:

      Nicola Sturgeons political worldview seems deeply solipsistic.

    55. leither says:

      some of by best friends are SNP but………

    56. Muscleguy says:

      All we can really hope for is that the various Salmond related things such as the parliamentary enquiry could get rid of Sturgeon & Co.

      It looks like more public cash is going to spaffed on lawyers by both sides as the enquiry goes to court to force ScotGov to release various documents. We have been here before. Remember when Salmond sued over the botched witch hunt against him by Scotgov. They kept submitting heavily redacted documents to the court. The judge kept ruling the redactions had to go, some only were removed until the judge lost patience & threatened contempt proceedings that ScotGov threw in the towel rather than release the documents.

      That won’t wash this time because the enquiry want the documents, nothing else. They can only be being withheld because they are damning for some concerned. Sturgeon & co appear to be hanging on by their fingertips hoping by pretending they aren’t that something will crop up to save them.

      Sturgeon seems to believe only SHE is able to lead & decide everything (other than that devolved to hubby of course). NEC not reversed because Sturgeon is feart of Joanna. Humza making a fool of himself in defence of his indefensible Hate Crime Bill etc. Lots of experienced hands jumping ship rather than continue to be sidelined.

      First they stopped the party members voting on or even proposing policies. Now MSP’s dare not speak out or vote out of order or their name is mud while Cabinet members are place sitters taking all their orders from Sturgeon & Co.

      The bad figures reflect the over centralisation since the small group around Sturgeon cannot possibly do everything at the required attention to detail.

      Sturgeon and her way of doing govt business and control freakery has to go.

    57. Andrew F says:

      A bit of history about Tony Abbott, former Australian PM – from an Australian.

      I’ll try to keep this brief.

      Australia functionally has a duopoly (“Labor” & “Liberal”).

      In the 2007 federal election the contenders were John Howard (Liberal = “conservative”) and Kevin Rudd (Labor – yes, they spell it the US way, but that’s another long story).

      People remember Bush/Blair, but it was actually Bush/Blair/Howard. By 2007 Howard was very unpopular and Rudd came along promising a few basics: Mend relations with the Indigenous people, end the foreign war participations (e.g. Iraq), stop putting refugees in prison camps offshore, do something about climate change and addressing economic inequality. He won ina landslide and started to actually, sort of, do some of those things whereupon hos own party started to furiously undermine him and eventually overthrew him in an internal coup.

      A few years later he did the same back to them and regained the throne just before the 2013 election against Tony Abbott and began undoing those things, especially being even crueler to refugees.

      In the 2013 election the Labor mantra was literally “Abbott would be worse”. Abbott won in a landslide.

      Just like ‘Brexit’ and Trump, the message was: yes, we’re pissing you off and going against what you want us to do and what we supposedly stand for, but THEY WOULD BE WORSE AND YOU WOULD BE A RACIST/SEXIST/MISOGYNIST/RIGHT-WING HATER IF YOU DON’T VOTE FOR US.

      And they act surprised and hurt when people don’t do as commanded.

      Interesting context hopefully.

      [By the way, my sister was best friends with his sister when they were at school, but I don’t think I’ve ever met him personally.]

    58. Gavin says:

      The comments section apparently doesn’t count as being on the site…for the purposes of swearing. ;p

    59. robertknight says:

      Muscleguy at 4:13

      “NEC not reversed because Sturgeon is feart of Joanna.”

      The Edinburgh Central affair, which has all the aroma of Gravesend at low tide, has less to do with keeping JC out and much more to do with rewarding “Robertson”.

    60. Polly says:

      @ holymacmoses

      Yes, good point that kind of thing has always been somewhere in the Scots Calvinist psyche. Think of Burns on the cutty stool trying to show public repentance and James Hogg’s ‘elect’ who could justify even murder. That was the first Scottish novel, and novel by a Scot, I ever read as a teen and it stayed with me, especially the mist scene. It also reminds me of Fight Club.

      @ iain mhor

      Yay the Athenians and democracy, just a pity they had so many slaves in their silver mines though.

      I agree with Scozzie and Maggie C, it will serious annoy me should Robertson get that seat. And I used to admire him at PMQ too.

    61. Polly says:

      @ leither

      You have a cheek to talk about friends. Oh why don’t you dip your big toe in verruca salt and suck it.

    62. Athanasius says:

      Johnson may be an Etonian twit promoted well beyond the level of his ability (actually, there’s no “maybe” about it). But Trump is different. I love the guy. Seriously, I think he’s the William Wallace of America. Crass, common, vulgar, and no proper aristocrat, but I think he’s going to end up like Robert the Bruce. He’s going win, he’s going to win huge and he’s going to be remembered as the best there ever was.

    63. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Muscleguy @ 4.13pm

      On the button.

    64. Sharny Dubs says:

      Hay Gav! Fuckin A!

    65. Sharny Dubs says:

      I should like to say a word in support of our fearless moderator.

      Doesn’t some of this sh1t burn your ass and make your blood boil? Never mind some of the brain dead posts! So what’s wrong with letting it rip when the occasion suits?

      Goan yersell big man, the yes movement needs some straight talking once in a while.

    66. Merlin Scot says:

      My library card no is D00203664:
      .
      Can I only comment on library matters?

    67. Willie says:

      Can’t help but look at the SNP list vote 953,800 for the SNP getting 4 List MSPs whereas 960,100 for Labour and Conservative got 45 List MSPs.

      Makes you wonder why Nicola Sturgeon is for vote SNP 1and 2 when a second vote for an Indy Party could deliver another 30 to 40 seats for a super Independence majority.

      But as someone in the SNP said a while back, we need to be fair to Unionists.

      Just saying like, just saying.

    68. kapelmeister says:

      I wonder if Sturgeon, when she’s waking around in public in her tartan facemask and no one can see her lips, is amusing herself by silently mouthing the words “The status quo suits me, the status quo suits me”.

    69. kapelmeister says:

      Meant walking around, not waking around. On reflection, woking around would be apt.

    70. Mike d says:

      Well i hope that the ‘malicious’ prosecution of rangers by the CROWN, will tell the ibrox faithful, that the CROWN dont give a flying f**k about their ‘LOYALTY.

    71. Beaker says:

      @paul says:
      3 September, 2020 at 3:57 pm
      “He certainly looks like the continuity leader that Nicola Sturgeon would approve of when she moves on.
      With Daddy bear as the fire(guard)brand deputy.”

      Angus is programmed like Robocop – Directive 4 – any attempt to challenge the leader results in shutdown.

    72. Mike d says:

      James barr gardener 3.22pm. Waspi women were the worst treated. But polls showed that the majority of those women voted no in 2014. My lips are sealed.

    73. Mike d says:

      Gardner, sorry james.

    74. Cherrybank says:

      O/T The Independence for Scotland Party website is now up and functioning. They are looking for donations and applications for membership.

    75. Duncan says:

      Gavin says:
      3 September, 2020 at 4:19 pm
      “The comments section apparently doesn’t count as being on the site…for the purposes of swearing. ;p”

      Several people have been told to fuck right of or take themselves to fuck. Just saying!!
      No problem with that as some people do need to go and fuck themselves. Just saying…
      A Nigerian man once said to me
      “we have the perfect system in our country.”
      “what.”
      “Everone is 100% corrupt and you know exactly what you are dealing with.”

    76. cirsium says:

      @Athansius, 4.38

      I think John Wight’s description says it all

      “Donald Trump is the land of the free with its mask removed.”

    77. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      You will notice Nicola Sturgeon whining on constantly aboot ‘sexism’ and ‘misogyny’ in politics. Really, this serves three functions in her mind/political game plan:

      1) She gets to implant the idea that men are not great in politics, and women will be better off doing the job, as she is clearly obsessed with;

      2) She can virtue signal again and get her narcissist name in the papers;

      2) She can get to stab at men again, because she quite clearly hates us. It’s pure sexism from top to toe.

      Any man criticising a woman in any way now is called a ‘misogynist.’ Which is, of course, ludicrous and laughable. Meanwhile, women can say anything they want to ‘pale, male and stale’ (a headline phrase The national often uses) people in the media, and there’s no comeback. It’s how things are going, and how they will be, and they can stick it right up their gynocentric world plans. It’s just another pointless and disgusting divide and conquer mechanism to separate people, and the fact that people in the top of government can’t see that is grim and depressing at best.

      Then again, I would say that, cos I’m a man, eh? BOO! HISS! 🙂

    78. Effijy says:

      Waspi women voted no as all the Unionist parties,
      Lead by Gordon Clunker Brown, were assured they
      Would have no pension at all in an independent Scotland
      while knowing the pension rights were guaranteed.

      Better to have the 4th worst pension in Europe and a Tory
      Party looking to raise the pension age raised to 75 than
      Stand up for yourself and your country?

    79. Big Jock says:

      Mike D. The Rangers fans will say the Crown is in the pocket of the Scottish government, and that there should only be a British court.

      Yes they are that stupid!

    80. Kenny says:

      Regarding Arlene Foster, I saw her grimly walking past me one day in Londone.

      I turned to my friend and said: “That’s who I want negotiating my pay packet!”

      She fair laid down the law to the Maybot as well. Would but the SNP have been 1/100th of the DUP…

    81. Skip_NC says:

      Athanius @ 4:38pm, I rather fear Trump may win this November. Currently, fivethirtyeight.com gives Trump 204 electoral votes – sixty-six shy of a majority. There are six states and the Nebraska 2nd District, won by Trump in 2016, that currently favor Biden, but the leads are within margin of error. Biden got a bounce after the Democratic convention, but his leads have been pared back a bit.

      Key for Trump is holding on to Florida (29 votes) and Pennsylvania (20 votes). If he does that, any two from North Carolina (15), Arizona (11), Wisconsin (10) or Michigan (16) would keep him in the White House. Michigan is an outside bet, though. There are other less likely scenarios that would get Trump to either 270 electoral votes (outright win) or 269 (tied and the new House of Representatives picks the winner). There are some pundits who argue there is almost no path for Trump to win. The above scenario is not outlandish so such an argument doesn’t really hold water.

    82. James Barr Gardner says:

      Mike d says:
      3 September, 2020 at 5:41 pm
      Gardner, sorry james,

      My Wee Sassenach Wife wis’nae wan o’ them ! But thin ther wis a’ awefu lot o’ Pensioners who believed the Project Fear lies but then again they believed the Royals were God’s presence on Earth, newspapers told the truth as did the BBC. Ther auld age pensions it wis a case o’ tuggin’ the forelock an’ thinkin’ thae fortunate tae git a widow’s mite. People however kin change ther minds, that’s the wans that are still wi’ us ! WASPI Women will never git justice under Tories red or blue !

    83. Mike d says:

      David caledonia 2.04p. ‘If labour get voted back into power in Scotland I will never forgive any of you ‘.
      The only blame for that will lie solely at the feet of nicola sturgeon. Fool me once with a promise of a mandate, shame on you. Fool me numerous times with numerous mandates, then I deserve all I get. Sorry not happening.

    84. Nell G says:

      If I went on TV and said Nicola is a toxic feminist who hates straight men and the working classes I’d be telling an undeniable truth. I’d also get absolute pelters and probably lose my job. She is playing on these double standards as it riles up her rabid claque which in-turn shields her from scrutiny.

      If James Brown were alive today he’d have to rewrite the classic “mans world ” with “trans world”.

    85. Mike d says:

      Effijy 6.33pm. I spent 10 years of my working life in Scotland after leaving school,then another 35 working in England. But even I wasn’t stupid enough to believe that on retirement, moving back to an independent Scotland Westminster wouldn’t pay my pension, same as if I moved to Spain, Ireland, or any eu country.

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      Herer’s one for all the Trump fans, who appear to support racist authoritarianism and misogyny, Which is what you get if you empower right-wing populism.

      Trump’s racist attacks on ‘the Squad’ come straight out of an authoritarian’s playbook and threaten American democracy, experts say
      https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attacks-squad-borrow-from-authoritarian-playbook-2019-7

    87. RobertTheTruth says:

      Tony Abbot has expressed many reprehensible views and appears to be yet another right wing bigot who is educated beyond his intelligence. When in power he was despised by his own side as much as by the opposition. However, that is not the point. I agree with NS and I would not appoint him either but what about the alternative view taken by the NewSNP?

      Look at how NewSNP appear to be appointing their next generation of MSPs, ability means nothing, facts mean nothing, identity and party loyalty is all. You have to be on message and associate with the right people. You must decry the wrong people. If you are female you must agree to be addressed as a cis-woman or ‘womxn’ and you have to agree with all the terms and conditions that come with that ideology. You have to always have agreed with those T & C or you will be vilified and branded a heretic. This is what is played out on the NEC and in social media.

      Angus Robertson was celebrating passing his vetting process. As if he would not! That would take integrity within NewSNP and that is not what they are about now. They are changing the rules to fill Holyrood with their cabal and that will have real consequences. If you think the legislation being put forward is frightening now wait until 2021 when independence is put on the back burner and identity politics is at the forefront.

    88. robertknight says:

      David Caledonia…

      You want to know how much faith many of the Indy supporting, but politically homeless, electorate now have in the SNP?

      “We cannot, and we will not, allow Scotland to follow Theresa May or Boris Johnson off the cliff-edge.”

      “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against our will.”

      http://www.ukpol.co.uk/ian-blackford-2019-speech-to-snp-conference/

      Does the phrase ’empty rhetoric’ mean anything to you?

      Never mind the multiple mandates for jam tomorrow.

    89. dakk says:

      So long as Nicola allows Blair Jenkins to leave his boots on the peg then we might punch our weight in indyref2 if/when it happens.

    90. Andy Ellis says:

      Slightly O/T, but perhaps germane to the “your opinions aren’t welcome here” theme, I was intrigued by some recent comments on WoS threads about Wee Ginger Dug having a hissy fit about folk daring to disagree with the party line, so went over there last night an posted a few comments.

      Oh my!

      What a disappointment Paul and his site are! The movement really does appear to be eating itself. Colour me unsurprised to see all the usual Sturgeonista loyal expelees from here circle jerking themselves into a state in his BTL comments.

      My input was not well received. Apparently calling people “ultras” is abusive or some such nonsense, because *reasons*. To think I actually used to rate that site…..sheesh….

      we’re in for a long wait, huh….? 🙁

    91. I find this difficult,I presume we are singing from the same hymn sheet for Scotland to become what Scotland should always have been independent and free,many of us have different ideas,best used after freedom and not before.Taking everything into account,why the infighting,the enemy is who we should be aiming at.An enemy having got money by means foul or foul,and will use every trick in the book to frustrate us.So you are not a fan of Nicola Sturgeon! we need Scotland back and it needs EVERYONE pulling the same direction.I use my own name,I hide behind no false name,some comments leave me wondering!!

    92. Bob Mack says:

      @Robert Galloway,

      All independence supporters are pulling in the same direction, but to what end? The people leading are not giving all these supporters the opportunity to vote for Independence for whatever reason you want to put on it.

      That’s the issue in a nutshell.

    93. leither says:

      @polly

      🙂

    94. Jam tomorrow is the hall mark of “Better Together” for WHOM!???Promised 13 Frigates to build,A fleet of none existent ferries for food and medicine,no fleet no experience,vote no and stay in E.U.leave and join America ,peoples,s lives are less important than their offshore accounts,too much,so I will not continue!Jam tomorrow has been their consistant cry for centuries,but they keep on stealing from Scotland.

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      Again, I appreciate I’m farting against thunder, but the woke perspective is one that applies critical race theory to educational practice. It does not deny biological reality, as it seeks to empower those who are socially marginalized as a result of their intersectional disadvantage and embodied vulnerability.

      Empowerment of Women Throughout the Life Cycle as a Transformative Strategy for Poverty Eradication
      https://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/csw/empower/reports/Final_report.pdf

    96. holymacmoses says:

      ‘robert galloway says:
      I hide behind no false name,some comments leave me wondering!!’

      Mr Galloway I urge you not to be so impressed by a ‘real’ name’ I have NO idea who you are and whether your name is Tom, Dick or Harry and if I were to put up my ‘real’ name you wouldn’t know anything more about me than the name on this sheet .

      Read what people write and if they seem to be dissembling then challenge them. These ‘comment’ areas are here to air different views. It is impossible, and indeed totally undesirable, for us to agree on everything.
      You seem to assume that a ‘real’ name indicates something akin to the truth: in my experience a forked tongue is far more common than a liar with two identities.

    97. cirsium says:

      @robert galloway, 8.18
      “We cannot, and we will not, allow Scotland to follow Theresa May or Boris Johnson off the cliff-edge.”

      “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against our will.”

      Yet we’re going over the cliff edge. This is not the direction I want to go in.

    98. Meg merrilees says:

      auld highlander

      the poll in Dundee is now running at 62.1% for yes to independence.

    99. PacMan says:

      Interesting article. Like all of us, we are fully aware of how wokism is infiltrating every part of our society. Some of it is benign, like the BLM movement, at least it started off but others are insidious as seen with this trans issue.

      We have all this stuff in the private sector company I work for all the time as well as all these trendy new age theories from America. I have raised this in the past with my manager and she agreed that it is nonsense but it is mostly tick-box exercises that needs to be done. It is the same with this corporate virtue signalling that is common at the moment. They are going through the motions as these things come and go.

      The same might be said of what Sturgeon and co at the SNP are doing. However, private companies live or die by profit and the realities of operating a company like employment laws and other legislation which limits the damage of these nonsense fads but political parties aren’t due to Entryism and reliant solely on public opinion for their existence.

      I know people on here don’t like Sturgeon and what the SNP has become. I offer the humble opinion that give her some slack for the position she is in but that doesn’t mean she or her party should be let off the hook.

      The SNP are the way to get no voters and undecideds to believe that independence is possible through good governance. It is for us on the outside to keep the SNP honest that independence is only the path to take regardless of what direction short term opinion blows them to.

    100. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Galloway

      Some of us post under our own names, some don’t. I’ve always thought it was preferable. As Holymacmoses says, probably better to concentrate on the content than the moniker.

      Those imputing anti-independence motives to those criticising the party remind me of the delusional magical thinkers who have (thankfully) decamped in large part to minor blogs like WGD, Bella and others wet-nat havens.

      Frankly given what I’ve seen over there, WoS is all the better for their choice – even if it wasn’t voluntary in many cases 🙂

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      How the hell does the ‘party of independence’ hope to empower Scotland, if it seeks to relegate the legal position of natural born women in Scots law? Legally empowering misogyny is the last thing Scotland needs, as patriarchy hurts the poor and destroys the planet. It is also incompatible with the principle of equality in law.

      A Practical Guide to Empowerment
      https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/413476574.pdf

    102. PacMan says:

      Dave Hansell says: 3 September, 2020 at 4:46 pm

      In regards to purity this seems to be the standard to beat:

      https://queeratxlaura.wordpress.com/2020/05/27/resisting-terfs-and-transforming-their-organizations/#respond

      There is no doubt that this “purity spiral” works effectively in organisations and movements but it will be interesting to see how well it works here in the indy movement.

      There is no doubt that soft headed middle class do-gooders and loud mouths are easy prey for these types who thrive in this “purity spiral” environment but will they have the same easy ride with us?

      We Scots know how to bring people down a peg or two with a good tongue lashing that can’t be countenanced by threats of the law, at least at the moment if this Hate law legislation guided by Yousaf doesn’t get brought into law.

      There is also the fact that us in the indy cause have become battle-hardened with years and decades for some of ignored, belittled, ridiculed and scorned by the mainstream and even friends, work colleagues and family. We have had to make sure our arguments are sound and have the answers not only to immediate question but every other silly possible scenario that could happen.

      As I mentioned, they tactics work with loud mouth Daily Mail readers who think they know everything but know nothing but they really have chosen the wrong people to mess with if they set their sight on us.

    103. PacMan says:

      Just going O/T with the latest developments on the virus.

      It was in the STV news today there were was a house party involving 300 people that got broken up I think it somewhere outside of Glasgow. I’m not sure if I picked up the report incorrectly but it sounded like the party was organised as money making exercise.

      I know that airBnB have banned house lettings for party purposes but I wonder if individuals are letting their vacant properties to be used for these purposes for cash in hand? If so, then the government needs to come down hard on them.

    104. CameronB Brodie says:

      If the party’s management were anyway where near competent in corporate governance, support for genderwoowoo would have been shunned rather than encouraged. And we might not be getting (il)legally subjugated by Westminster.

      Training Manual for
      Women‘s Empowerment
      (Advanced Level)

      https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/medica_mondiale_Liberia_Training_Manual_advanced_level.pdf

    105. bipod says:

      I find camerons position on right wing populism to be quite odd. His contributions on the trans issue often sound like something that could have been uttered jordan peterson, he doggedly defends the tory lockdown policy (adopted by the SNP but still tory) and then accuses anyone who doesn’t support it of being of being a tory right wing populist. Very strange behaviour.

    106. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘PacMan says:
      3 September, 2020 at 9:11 pm
      Dave Hansell says: 3 September, 2020 at 4:46 pm

      There is no doubt that this “purity spiral” works effectively in organisations and movements but it will be interesting to see how well it works here in the indy movement.’

      Tell you suhhin fir nuhhin: Hell will freeze oor afore working class Scotland gies a flying fuck aboot this chimpy Yank-importit mince. Firivir. Only trendy poncy confused homphobic racist wanks support this shite, tae cover up fir thir lack ay humanity n comprehension ay the problems involved.

    107. PacMan says:

      robert galloway says: 3 September, 2020 at 8:18 pm

      I find this difficult,I presume we are singing from the same hymn sheet for Scotland to become what Scotland should always have been independent and free,many of us have different ideas,best used after freedom and not before.Taking everything into account,why the infighting,the enemy is who we should be aiming at.An enemy having got money by means foul or foul,and will use every trick in the book to frustrate us.So you are not a fan of Nicola Sturgeon! we need Scotland back and it needs EVERYONE pulling the same direction.

      I know where you are coming from as I try in my little way to get the same message through. However, the inescapable fact is that you simply can’t put all your eggs into relying solely on the SNP to deliver independence isn’t an option.

      This is something that we all collectively have to share blame for. We have a mainstream media that is wholly biased against the SNP and independence. However, that doesn’t mean that all their SNPbad stories are simply biased reporting. The SNP is full of human beings and suffers from human follies where they make mistakes like the rest of us. However, we can’t accept this and only see media bias. To deal with that, it makes sense to put some emotional distance between the SNP and the independence movement and see that SNP can make mistakes and it is acceptable to criticise them when it happens. It is also sensible to keep some distance to ensure they are kept honest due to the lack of unbiased analysis and discussion on them by the media.

      In short, to use an analogy the SNP are the main cog of the independence machine but they are reliant on other cogs to operate and if these these other cogs do not work properly then the main cog can go out of alignment, become damaged and the whole machine halts.

      I use my own name,I hide behind no false name,some comments leave me wondering!!

      People have many reasons for posting under an anonymous handle. That’s doesn’t mean they are doing for malicious reasons.

    108. PacMan says:

      bipod says: 3 September, 2020 at 9:22 pm

      I find camerons position on right wing populism to be quite odd. His contributions on the trans issue often sound like something that could have been uttered jordan peterson, he doggedly defends the tory lockdown policy (adopted by the SNP but still tory) and then accuses anyone who doesn’t support it of being of being a tory right wing populist. Very strange behaviour.

      You aren’t very good at this, are you?

    109. CameronB Brodie says:

      bipod
      You’ve obviously not be doing any of the suggested reading either.

      Get Woke, Stay Woke: 7 Key Books On Feminism For The Trump Era

      There’s a reason that books like The Handmaid’s Tale have made a resurgence lately. If you want to know your onions when it comes to gender discussions, here are some more books you should read!

      https://www.blinkist.com/magazine/posts/get-woke-stay-woke-7-books-read-feminism-gender

    110. PacMan says:

      WhoRattledYourCage says: 3 September, 2020 at 9:28 pm

      Tell you suhhin fir nuhhin: Hell will freeze oor afore working class Scotland gies a flying fuck aboot this chimpy Yank-importit mince. Firivir. Only trendy poncy confused homphobic racist wanks support this shite, tae cover up fir thir lack ay humanity n comprehension ay the problems involved.

      Aye, it minds me of work when these ones come in straight from University. I feel for them that they can’t get the job that they studied hard for years. Most are fine and fit in but some try to take over the place, attempt to shaft their colleagues in order to slither up the greasy corporate ladder and look down their noses at the rest of us when all their attempts gets them nowhere. They always end up no mates and shunned by the rest of us.

      It really is a case that we give these types of people enough rope to hang themselves and it will be the same for these ones who try to push this agenda mentioned in Dave Hansell’s link on us.

    111. bipod says:

      Not very good at what PacMan?

    112. Kenny says:

      I also visited the WGD website recently and was horrified at the naivety shown in the comments. It was the level of political engagement and acumen you would expect from the “Better Together cereal lady”.

    113. PacMan says:

      Andy Ellis says: 3 September, 2020 at 8:09 pm

      Slightly O/T, but perhaps germane to the “your opinions aren’t welcome here” theme, I was intrigued by some recent comments on WoS threads about Wee Ginger Dug having a hissy fit about folk daring to disagree with the party line, so went over there last night an posted a few comments.

      Oh my!

      What a disappointment Paul and his site are! The movement really does appear to be eating itself. Colour me unsurprised to see all the usual Sturgeonista loyal expelees from here circle jerking themselves into a state in his BTL comments.

      My input was not well received. Apparently calling people “ultras” is abusive or some such nonsense, because *reasons*. To think I actually used to rate that site…..sheesh….

      we’re in for a long wait, huh….? ?

      I really like Paul’s blog and I enjoy his alternative views on his blog, he is one of the good guys. However, his articles only attract a wee amount of BTL comments from mostly the same people. Quite a lost of these posts are informative but they are from people who share roughly the same views and don’t have the diversity on here. I post there occasionally but I wouldn’t take any BTL comments to heart. After all, they are just opinions much like yours and mine.

    114. bipod says:

      No cameron I rarely read the links you post. I don’t really think you do either given your inability to distill them into something for us average schmoes.

    115. PacMan says:

      bipod says: 3 September, 2020 at 9:44 pm

      Not very good at what PacMan?

      Everything judging by that post you made.

      Och well. Too bad, so sad, never mind.

    116. Lizg says:

      Andy Ellis @ 9.05
      Haw you…… I post on those blogs too….
      It’s no a competition Andy!
      Think of it as the *Freedom to Frequent a Blog Best Suited Tae Yer Needs* a wee bit like why we’re all here in the first place …Aye?

    117. Lizg says:

      Pac Man @ 9.48
      Ha beat me to it 🙂
      And your other posts tonight have been great too .

    118. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Pacman & @Kenny

      I have to agree with Kenny: it’s a real horror show in there. With friends like those etc….. 🙁

      To be honest I haven’t been this pessimistic about our chances of achieving indy since the morning after #indyref1. I was convinced we’d blown it for a “real” generation then. I’m beginning to feel the same now.

    119. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘PacMan says:

      Aye, it minds me of work when these ones come in straight from University.’

      Aye, whit ye said is right. The distance between these young, life-unproved cunts (no thir faults, thir young), n the average person oan the street, smart n savvy or no, is nearly immeasurable. We aw wantit a high-peying joab. We nivir goat it. We set oor sights tae different event horizons. Ho-hum. The young yins these days, though, ur gonnae come doon tae earth wi a helluva crash, n ah dinnae envy thum thir journeys atween real life n yooni intersectionalist-spewing pish, cos the chasm is wider thin ivir these days. Naecunt ootside thir bubble cares aboot thir PC pish; quite the opposite in fact.

    120. Bob Mack says:

      Don’t be despondent about Independence. We might not get it because of the SNP, but we will get it in spite of them.
      We use them to get what we want.

    121. mike cassidy says:

      For your evening’s delectation

      Scottish purity policing

      1960 style

      https://twitter.com/YourWullie/status/1208113807391899649

    122. holymacmoses says:

      Mr Galloway wrote:
      ‘So you are not a fan of Nicola Sturgeon! we need Scotland back and it needs EVERYONE pulling the same direction.’

      The Unionists aren’t against the SNP, they are against breaking up the Union. It’s very difficult for a single party to woo everyone who wants independence under the one umbrella at the same time. Clearly if you have all three of the ‘traditional’ ‘wings’ of UK democracy (which the electorate think they understand ) to call on to support you then you are in a very strong position. Thus Cons Labs and Libs work together against Scottish aspirations.
      However, at the moment there is an hiatus and much of the Scottish electorate considers WM politics futile and both Conservative and Labour as useless. In this atmosphere, where the desire for Independence is well over the 50% BEFORE we start canvassing, the independence movement should be able to offer a ‘comfortable’ alternative for many voters who are looking for a future away from this madness.
      It seems obvious that other independence parties with different ‘tendencies’ will further the cause.
      The only thing we need to agree on is having our country in our own hands. Everything else will emerge after that has been achieved.

    123. PacMan says:

      Lizg says:3 September, 2020 at 9:53 pm

      Pac Man @ 9.48
      Ha beat me to it ?
      And your other posts tonight have been great too .

      Thank you for you kind words Lizg.

      I’m glad my message is getting through. I can really emphasise with a lots of posters who have no time for the SNP. I was taken in hook, line and sinker by their strategy towards Brexit and Blackfords constant rhetoric of not being taken out of Europe, even towards the end when he went to the Privy council. It was a right punch to the guts and even now it stings and leaves a bit taste in my mouth.

      However, like always we have no choice to get on with things as we always do. We get up, dust ourselves off and get back to business. This is what it is with the SNP, business, nothing personal. They are a means to an end and as long as they are useful then they will have our support. I know a lot of people think we are powerless and that the SNP are out of touch and are a lot cause but there are ways and means to get their attention and that involves alternative independence parties.

      Any political party understands that they can’t take their core support for granted and alternative voices with enough clout will make that known to them. This also applies to the foes of Scotland where they either have to deal with a moderate SNP or a more radical one.

      I know it is looking bleak at the moment but we are in a good position and yes, the SNP with their handling of the virus are helping as well.

    124. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘mike cassidy says:
      3 September, 2020 at 10:11 pm
      For your evening’s delectation

      Scottish purity policing

      1960 style’

      Nice. That was Jim Haynes’ shop The Paperback, in George Square. He supplied people like Alex Neish, who published the first chapter of Naked Lunch, by William S Burroughs, in the Edinburgh University mag Jabberwock.

      https://realitystudio.org/interviews/interview-with-alex-neish-editor-of-jabberwock-and-sidewalk/

    125. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @WRYC –

      Thanks for that link. Really interesting stuff.

      😉

    126. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Tell you suhhin fir nuhhin: Hell will freeze oor afore working class Scotland gies a flying fuck aboot this chimpy Yank-importit mince.”

      This is simply misogyny dressed up as practical common sense, from someone who appears to be a bit of a knuckle-dragger, frankly.

    127. CameronB Brodie says:

      WhoRattledYourCag
      Get back in the sea with your populist shite.

      WOMEN’S EMPOWERMENT ARISING FROM
      VIOLENT CONFLICT AND RECOVERY

      https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/Gender/Petesch_Women_and_Conflict.pdf

    128. Lizg says:

      Pac Man @ 10.17
      Your welcome Pac Man.
      And your right about the core support.
      I always point to the fact the the GRA would have gone through easily last year if the support hadn’t kicked off about it.
      No matter the issue or yer feeling on it…. no party should get to just push stuff through.

      I don’t understand why people see it as such a problem to rail at their own party or government to have their opinion count…..I’d have said it’s what we were all supposed to be doing.
      To vote and and accept everything done , is, I’d say , the real mistake.

      If we want Indy, and we do then we should be pushing the SNP not trusting the SNP,and although it won’t be a popular position…..pushing by every button we can.

      We’ve pretty much done all we can with Westminster it’s Holyrood,the Scottish Government and the SNP that should have our full attention now.
      This is our lives our future and our money they are managing and they should never have a free pass with it.

    129. Dan says:

      GB Grid demand is currently 25GW, so say Scotland being 10% of UK population is using 2.5GW.
      Oh look, Scotland is still exporting 5GW to England.

      https://extranet.nationalgrid.com/RealTime

    130. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 September, 2020 at 10:32 pm
      @WRYC –

      Thanks for that link. Really interesting stuff.’

      Thanks. Once of my fave pieces I have done.

    131. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘CameronB Brodie says:
      3 September, 2020 at 10:34 pm
      “Tell you suhhin fir nuhhin: Hell will freeze oor afore working class Scotland gies a flying fuck aboot this chimpy Yank-importit mince.”

      This is simply misogyny dressed up as practical common sense, from someone who appears to be a bit of a knuckle-dragger, frankly.’

      I am so fucking glad you misinterpret me so much, and I am laughing out loud, ya maniac!

    132. Stan Broadwood says:

      David Clegg on Sky News press preview…

      It says he is with the Dundee Courier now.

      WTF

      When did he leave the Record???

      Feel sorry for the poor people of Dundee.

    133. Dan says:

      Of course one has to remember those Grid connection charges…

      https://thecommongreen.scot/2016/09/12/grasping-the-grid/

    134. defo says:

      At the wind up yet again Spammers?
      Have you heard of online dating?
      Give it a try, and us a rest.
      😉

    135. Stan Broadwood says:

      David Clegg, the architect of the Ulsterisation of the Scottish press.

      Dirty lowlife Unionist bastard.

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      WhoRattledYourCage
      You have no argument so you seek to undermine me in the eyes of others. Go in then, impress us with your critical understanding of educational and legal theories. Show us how phenomenology is essential for inclusive social practice and legal equality.

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      I’m happy to wind-up anyone who is narrow minded. You should know that by now. 😉

    138. Dan says:

      Bad news for nimbys, but great if you’re an avid truck spotter!
      Brexiteers be ragin at all the Scania, Volvo, Renault, Merc, Daf, and Iveco trucks, you just don’t see so many Bedford, ERF, Scammel and Fodens these days…Where did it all go wrong for Blighty…

      https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1301595671733178373

    139. Beaker says:

      I used the Robocop “Directive 4” as a lame attempt at humour at the end of a long day.

      But come to think of it, the SNP seem to be like Omni Consumer Products – in the film, any time the Chairman (the Old Man) opens his mouth the executives clap and try to outdo each other in showing their loyalty.

      So if Nicola can be compared to the Old Man, who is the SNP equivalent of Dick Jones, the Senior Vice President who eliminates anyone who gets in his way?

      (Of course, you can substitute the SNP for any of the other parties).

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      ‘I’m happy to wind-up anyone who is narrow minded.’

      Good for you.

      You’ll be delighted to know that you’re having the same effect on a considerably broader audience.

      😉

    141. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 September, 2020 at 11:15 pm
      @CamB –

      ‘I’m happy to wind-up anyone who is narrow minded.’

      Good for you.

      You’ll be delighted to know that you’re having the same effect on a considerably broader audience.’

      Laughing.

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      In your not so humble opinions. Who do you think you are to be judging me? What your perspective on critical realism and ethical rationalism? What training have you had to support open democracy?

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Or to put that another way, take your head out of your arse and you might see where you are going.

    144. Scott says:

      Tony Abbott wants a knighthood, and getting a job with the UK Government is the only way he’ll ever get one, and Boris will give it to him. That’s what is going on.

    145. susanXX says:

      Oh good grief, here we go again. Gie’s a break lads.

    146. mike cassidy says:

      WRYC and Ian Brotherhood

      Here’s Neish being interviewed in The Scotsman in 2015.

      Understandably pro-Catalan.

      But sadly doesn’t seem to have castoff his Beat Era view of Edinburgh – and Scotland – as a place of parochial nationalists

      https://archive.vn/gZ9kp

    147. Dan says:

      @defo at 10:52 pm

      Paying for internet dating has lost much of its allure since earning money to pay for it became difficult, and the fact you aren’t allowed to actually touch anybody these days for fear of catching covid mega death.
      TBH life has become so mundane and uninspiring it would frankly be a fuckin joy to be lucky enough to catch an STD before dying…

    148. mr thms says:

      What if Tony Abbott’s new role has nothing to do with trade, but more to do with the constitution of Australia? What would be the constitutional position of Australia in the event of the dissolution of the United Kingdom?

    149. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Bed-time for me mister.

      Don’t you be up all night playing with that links machine!

      As my late granny might’ve said, ‘You’ll just turn into a big link one of these days!’

      😉

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not setting out to alienate friends and make enemies, but I’ve been trained in a scientific approach to social emancipation. I’ve not been stroking my ego in public, I’ve been trying to re-connect to post-colonial legal and educational theory and practice. I hoped that might have been apparent by now, so I’m just a bit frustrated at the increasing of ambivalence of some.

      Welcome to W.O.K.E.

      The vision of WOKE is to create an uplifting environment that allow women to network, give back, inspire, and be inspired.

      WOKE mission is to share knowledge, empower women and girls in our community through action, and support each others endeavors. We aim to change the stigmas of women interaction, decrease depression through fun and meaningful activities, and honor God through our work in the community….

      https://www.sheswoke.org/

    151. crazycat says:

      @ mr thms at 11.50

      That could be an interesting question.

      I suspect (but don’t know, of course) that nothing would change – the Commonwealth is dependent on the monarchy, which would still exist. There would still be a governor general, appointed by the monarch, etc.

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I didn’t mean to be nasty but you’re getting right on my tits. Night, night. 😉

    153. robertknight says:

      O/T

      Yoon press in a tizzy because Taffs and Jocks are not following Mother England’s lead, and intend doing something that ‘Mother’ doesn’t…

      “Confusion” cry the headlines!

      Sorry, but if you’re too bloody stupid to figure out whether the plane you’re about to be sat in will be flying you to Wales, Scotland or England, then don’t bother getting on it and please stay in Portugal – permanently!

    154. livionian says:

      I think it’s only a matter of time before the public become extremely fed up of all this woke pc nonsense, free speech and expression getting ripped up before there eyes etc and decide to do something about it. I just hope those of us with a bit of sanity can change the political landscape from within, rather than people becoming so nauseated with this thought police shite that they are driven to extremes. Regardless, SNP will find themselves on the wrong side of history

    155. mr thms says:

      Found these two articles on Google

      (The article is from 2014)

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-26/scotland-referendum-could-leave-australia-without-head-of-state/5696770

      “Scottish referendum: Yes vote to independence could leave Australia without head of state, expert says”

      Also as a result of a Yes vote..

      https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-18/would-scottish-independence-change-the-australian-flag/5744104?nw=0&pfmredir=sm

      “Fact file: What would Scottish independence mean for the Australian flag?”

      The article quotes

      “Andrew Rosindell, a Conservative Party MP and chairman of the UK Parliament’s Flags and Heraldry Committee, told Fact Check that the only mechanism that exists to alter the Union Jack would be by a proclamation of Her Majesty The Queen.”

      The same article has two more quotes attributed to the same person..

      “Mr Rosindell goes further. “The Union Jack will not change… Scots will remain British, even if they vote for independence,” he told Fact Check.”

      and

      “Mr Rosindell says in the United Kingdom, unlike Australia, “there is no Flag Act and there is no precedent for a referendum on the national flag”.”

      Will it come to pass?

      Time will tell.

    156. Contrary says:

      Well, we don’t know for a fact if NS’s chosen will be popular or not – and she could truly believe they will be. What I have found over the years is that, when it comes time to vote in a general election or Holyrood GE, when people are voting for government, suddenly the domestic policies become more important. So even with the populist vote – those that take the same gradualist approach as current SNP policy is – they are unlikely to get a majority if the actual candidates look useless.

      Now, Boris Johnstone got a nice fat majority on the populist vote, but the Tories also had a ton of dodgy funding, and the security services backing them with the illegal ads (and the newspapers etc etc).

      I can’t see the SNP ever getting the same kind of backing as Boris did. So if they don’t do a decent job of convincing people they really are going for independence this time, and they don’t have massive funds or dark advertising campaign, it will be down to people being convinced by the candidates on issues probably not- independence related. So say a core 30% populist vote, we can ignore the core 30% unionist vote – so say 40% to play for. Questions like ‘will my child be safe in school’ rather than ‘will there be a referendum’ will be the make or break ones, and because this isn’t the populist voter they will be seeking answers from the candidate rather than the leader.

      Take the example of Angus Robertson, already there is controversy and he’s blocking people – potential voters – on Twitter, in a Tory constituency. So 30% core Tory and SNP votes come what may – he could lose what 20% of disgruntled potential votes, and the other 20% may go back to Labour or the Tories and other parties. He has very little chance of winning that seat I would have thought. Young weirdo nobodies? That’ll be a tougher sell.

      The only way I can see the SNP winning a majority is if they convince everyone they really do mean it this time. Even if it’s just 20% of voters that are disgruntled and refuse to vote SNP. A pro-Indy majority is possible with list seats for other parties, of course. As long as they have rational candidates.

      You wouldn’t think it was a big ask, for a party of independence to promise independence, but apparently we aren’t allowed to ask, because that makes us BritNat trolls etc. Ah the wonders of populism.

    157. LeggyPeggy says:

      I think so many are disillusioned by the Snp and the way they are going just now is to do with many promises made re Brexit and we would not be dragged out of the Eu etc . No progress has made in protecting our rights as European citizens .

      Then wanting to bring in the Gra reform bill and opening up the two consultations so that anyone in the world could give a response to the consultations when women’s groups and women’s voices in Scotland are being ignored by the Scottish Government . They have already pushed through that a trans woman can be elected onto public boards already as link below ,

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/gender-representation-public-boards-scotland-act-2018-statutory-guidance/pages/2/

      Don’t even start about me about their Hate crime bill and then the NEC stitch up to Joanna Cherry is just a step to far for a lot of people .

      I know that many members of my family some who have been members for over forty years throughout have just about had enough of the party and many of them are ready to cut up their membership cards and resign and that includes myself and my husband .

      They’ve forgotten their soul purpose is to get Independence for Scotland .

    158. Effijy says:

      I see in a very brief segment of the news that the multi million pound
      World leading track and trace system, developed by Tory friends and backers
      For 1st June still isn’t functioning at an acceptable level.

      It can’t trace around a third of those that need tracked.

      No doubt giving them some more of the tax payers money and another
      Barrow load of bullshit promises to the public will see the virus flourish.

      Headline of course NS comment on a right wing Ozzie?

    159. James Barr Gardner says:

      Are any of the Alphabet Women standing for Election ?

    160. Robert Graham says:

      A few comments about Australia it may surprise a few folk Australia actually became independent from Perfidious Caesar! in 1975 and the Forigin Office forgot to tell the Aussies and they were to stupid to notice ffs and this lot are lording it over us , Christ we can’t even find a competent bloody country to be occupied by Just this current bunch of English Tossers , what a bleedn country eh ,

      For those who need exact times and dates I might be out by a few years but the main story is true

    161. Lizg says:

      James Bar Gardiner @ 12.46
      Yes but do not attempt to encourage anyone to try to identify them as it is against the Law.

    162. Robert Graham says:

      Speal Check changed Albion to Caesar! In my previous post For some reason ducked if I know why

    163. Lizg says:

      Only a story from a friend but..
      She claimed that most younger Australians only voted to keep auld Lizzie and her brood out of respect for their Vetrans who like and respect the auld leach ( they don’t have to fund them right enough which might have made a difference ).
      As soon as she dies or all of the Vetrans have they fully intend to vote for a republic.

    164. A Person says:

      -Contrary-

      You are correct imo. A pro Indy majority at Holyrood next year is by no means a shoo-in. A week is a long time in politics” etc etc.

    165. crazycat says:

      @ Robert Graham

      There are a number of words which are automatically changed (and others which trigger moderation).

      A-l-b-a becomes Caesar! regardless of whether it’s a word on its own (preceded or not by s-a-o-r, which becomes Hail), or part of a word like ****tross or ****nia.

      Tractor and quizmaster also appear in place of a couple of insults begnning with the same 3 letters in each case.

    166. Lukas Scholts says:

      Is this article an argument for bringing back Salmond? He’s the closest thing we had to a Messi.

      Time for a new party.

    167. CameronB Brodie says:

      Time to sort out the corporate governance and stamp out support for legal parochialism and misogyny. Before it becomes a public embarrassment beyond the politically engaged.

      —-

      The reason Scots law hasn’t gotten around to protecting our economic, social, and cultural rights, is because British constitutional practice ensures it can’t. That’s misogynistic cultural patriarchy that is, which positions the Scottish legal identity as subourdinate to English legal culture and tradition. Which is also a tad racist, frankly.

      Stay Woke: Creating a Path Towards Critical Consciousness and Self-Awareness for Young Women of Color

      ABSTRACT

      This paper examines a social justice based curriculum that was designed to promote a process towards critical consciousness and self-awareness in youth of color. This was done through a participatory paradigm infused with observational data. The findings indicated that in order to direct youth of color towards a path of critical consciousness and self-awareness, certain elements were required.

      These elements focused on shifting away from traditional styles of teaching and instead emerging in creating an environment that prides itself in diverse knowledges, engaged pedagogy, and connecting the personal within the political and social context.

      https://commons.clarku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1074&context=idce_masters_papers

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      The woke perspective seeks to empower the marginalised but does not deny a scientific world-view, which is essential to liberal democracy. Given Scotland’s democracy faces two assaults from legal pseudo-science (see British constitutional practice and genderwoowoo), I think it relevant to our cause. It’s certainly what the Royal Town Planning Institute thought would help overcome the “Scottish cringe”. So you can perhaps appreciate why I’m a bit short with those who are simply prejudiced rather than critically informed in their views.

      “STAYING WOKE” ON EDUCATIONAL EQUITY THROUGH CULTURALLY RESPONSIVE TEACHING
      https://digital.lib.washington.edu/researchworks/bitstream/handle/1773/39877/Affolter_washington_0250E_17312.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

    169. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘mike cassidy says:
      3 September, 2020 at 11:34 pm
      WRYC and Ian Brotherhood

      Here’s Neish being interviewed in The Scotsman in 2015.’

      Prick who wrote that nicked quotes from my own interview (the first and only time before that that Neish had ever been interviewed), and wouldn’t credit me. What a surprise.

    170. PacMan says:

      I thought I’d quit while I was ahead last night 🙂

      Just one more thought. We have been hearing a lot of talk about gas lighting but there has been quite a few SNP types who have been coming onto this site and doing a bit of gas lighting themselves against those who dare to think that the SNP isn’t the be all and end all of the indy movement.

      All of us have been around to long to muck it up. We know what is happening and don’t have any ego like the Johnny come latleys that are now in the upper ranks of the SNP. Bumbling Boris and Bonnie prince Charlie of Brigadoon isn’t coming up here because of the SNP. They are up here because the will of the Scottish people have through constant polling has shifted towards the idea of independence.

      Lets get one thing straight. I have come on repeatedly stating I am a gradualist and still am. However even I am exasperated with them and find it hard to defend their position. If their ambition is just managing a devolved administration then they aren’t the agitating to get the right to hold a referendum devolved. In having that power they can use the threat of holding a referendum as bargaining chip against power hungry Westminster.

      If they can’t get do self preservation then what is the point of them?

    171. PacMan says:

      Lukas Scholts says: 4 September, 2020 at 2:04 am

      Is this article an argument for bringing back Salmond? He’s the closest thing we had to a Messi.

      Time for a new party.

      There has been quite a few comments recently about getting Salmond back into the SNP.

      I doubt very much that he would want to go back and if he did, it would take far too long and far too damaging to clear out the carpetbaggers and deadwood that seems to be making up the SNP’s higher ranks.

      It would be better if he is interested in getting back into the fray for him to be in another party and get Tommy Sheridan back as well. He knows how to organise things and how to work the media.

    172. stuart mctavish says:

      Lizg @12:56 am
      If true that’s quite funny (or not depending on your perspective) since it suggests (assuming the vote goes ahead) that any voters loyal to Salmond (but not in the who’s who loop) might need to boycott EVERY female SNP candidate just in case..leading to a flurry of campaign literature along the lines of “I did not flirt with that man”, etc.. which in turn means the Lord Advocate will be obliged to prosecute for potential jigsaw identification following the Murray – Hirst precedent.

      Crazier yet would be if the men decide they also need to deny having their bottoms pinched or hair ruffled (ie thanks in part to all the self id confusion) and SNP finds itself in the rather interesting position of having all but a few of its prospective candidates ineligible for office due to their having a criminal record – and the few left standing being unable to be identified for legal reasons :)!

    173. Wee Chid says:

      Does anyone else feel that the SNP seem to have their own, voluntary 77th Brigade that has invaded Facebook? Can hardly make a criticism about them without being jumped all over and being told “Things are going on in the background that we don’t know about” or “They know what they are doing”. Have none of these folks noticed the constant broken promises like the repeated “Oh, yes. There will be an indyref next year” and the “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will”. I’m feeling New Labour all over again and sick to my stomach that both the Indy promises and the EU promise have been broken. “Oh, but what could they have done”. The job we bloody well elected them to do.

    174. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Dan @ 11.12pm

      You asked where all the British trucks went.

      Well,AEC, Albion, Guy, Leyland and Scammell merged to become Leyland, which became Leyland-DAF, which is now owned by the American PACCAR Group.

      PACCAR also owns the Foden name.

      The German MAN grop owns ERF.

      Seddon and Atkinson merged to become Seddon-ATkinson, which was bought by the Spanish Pegaso Group, and is now owned by the Italian Iveco Group, which also has a tie-in with Ford’s truck division.

      Bedford became part of General Motors many years ago. However there have been so-many splits and new owners in the last 40 years, some of the van production is now back with GM, making Citreon, Renault and VAuxhall vans. The truck division was sold off to AWD, which ceased production an dis now part of the Marshall of Cambridge group, while the articulated dump trucks side of the business was sold to DJBrown which is now owned by Caterpillar.

      Of particularly Scottish interest is the existence of Alecxander-Dennis, the world’s largest manufacturer of buses, and a definitely Scottish Company.

      Dennis-Eagle, the manufacturer of refuse wagons trades on the well-known Dennis name, but is Dutch-owned.

      Still in Scotland, Albion still exists, as part of the American AAM Group, producing axles, drive trains and chassis components at the Scotstoun works.

      So, there still are British van and truck manufacturers, albeit on a much-reduced scale, and minus most of the old badges.

    175. Ottomanboi says:

      From the depths of the origins of Scottish nationalism.

      “He (Compton Mackenzie) had lost interest in the nationalist party. The politicians had pushed aside the dreamers. MacCormick’s hope of merging with the respectable Scottish party was realised in 1934, and in the same year Christopher Grieve was expelled for membership of the Communist party. The clash of utopian inspiration was silenced, and for a generation he watched the party he had helped to found become a platform for the ideas of small town politicians”
      [from ‘Compton Mackenzie, a life’ by Andro Linklater.]

      Not much has changed. Mediocrity does float!
      Put not thy trust in the dealers in politicks for thou shalt be well and truly shafted.

    176. Ross says:

      What did you expect sturgeon to say? “Yeah give him the job?”

      Criticise purity principle all you want but her comments here were not a sold base.

      Stu is reaching here.

    177. Polly says:

      @ PacMan

      ‘They always end up no mates and shunned by the rest of us.
      It really is a case that we give these types of people enough rope to hang themselves and it will be the same for these ones who try to push this agenda mentioned in Dave Hansell’s link on us.’

      I agree with a lot of the rest you say. I agree very much that Salmond should be ‘getting back into the fray for him to be in another party and get Tommy Sheridan back as well’ since we should use every lever and all those who appeal to a wide range of different views, but I think you’re wrong about that statement above.

      At the moment and seemingly for the next election at least, those type of folk are likely to be successful and in Holyrood for the next parliament. As Stuart McTavish joked, most folk don’t know who some, or all, are just that they’re SNP, others don’t care and quite a few would vote for them because they’re ‘woke’. They’re not going to end up isolated for the foreseeable future, people like me are the ones more likely to feel that. It will probably take something really catastrophic for these ideas to go away and considering the younger generation coming out of universities are more likely to believe in most of it it will continue and might get worse before it either fades or is brought down by some catastrophe. And those folk who are there pushing this now I’d imagine more likely to be lording it successfully or to be the type to gently modify their views but still cling on in any future rebalancing.

    178. Dan says:

      @Socrates MacSporran

      Aye, buy outs and mergers occurred, but my point was you don’t see those names from yesteryear proudly displayed on the front of new trucks these days.
      It is a similar situation with the British bike and car makers. Few if any have made it through the passage of time when other foreign manufacturer names have endured and have gone from strength to strength.
      Something must have been fundamentally wrong in the management of all those entities for that to occur.

      I served my time on big diesel Leyland, Daf, Merc, and Volvo engines, but the ones that really impressed most were the older Gardner engines, they were a work of art and quality of their time, with details such as all the conrods being beautifully linished like you’d generally only see in racing engines.

    179. Effijy says:

      I posted this some time back more current now with others realising the
      Great British Companies have been sold to foreign corporations.

      Rolls Royce and the Mini are now German of course.

      I meet lots of SME companies and several time’s the owners have explained
      How they are selling out to German, Finish and Dutch companies.

      After 10 years of Tory Austerity and Brexit ready time kill off most of their exports
      European companies are approaching and advising that Brexit might be the end of
      Them so here is a fair offer for your Engineering company.

      Do you want to take the risk of walking s away with nothing?

      If Brexit wasn’t a disaster then they have a good company at a good price and operation
      Can continue pretty much as it has in the past.

      If tariffs to the European market are killing the company then they take all the EU orders and machinery over to their homeland and avoid any tariffs with all that red tape.

      Boris has gone to the other end of the world to try and find a right wing extremist who has some
      Experience in trade negotiations.
      This is admission that Westminster hasn’t a clue and what country in their right mind doesn’t know England is in a weak negotiating position and would always give a better trade deal to the 27 EU
      Nations before an arrogant union that is about to split with N Ireland staying in the EU trading block
      and Scotland running toward the exit door.

    180. Lukas Scholts says:

      If more people in the Indy movement were able to tell the difference between good politics and bad politics, we wouldn’t be in this position. And there are very simple filters that assist you in doing that.

      In short; as far as ends are concerned, no politician, cause, idea, or anything, should ever be regarded as “good” in isolation. Everything must be defined and judged in terms of whether they bring us closer to achieving independence or not, or, as means to that end.

      The starting point on everything should be based on ultra-cynicism. Politics attracts freaks that want attention and recognition. We all understand that. The point that power should never be given to those that want it rings in our ears from an early age, yet still we fall for these freaks.

      Everything that we know and is being said about Sturgeon and her priorities today, could have been said several years ago. It was said several years ago. Those who said it were chased. In 2015, her election slogan was “I’m with Nicola” ffs.

      In short, we are a bunch of mugs. Suckers. When we let them turn our cause into a hollow sport, with success measured in terms of votes, seats, polls, and other crap, we also let them run us into a bunch of clapping morons.

      And we deserve to be treated like this. We deserve everything, brexit, GRA, you name it. Even Coronavirus. We deserve it all as long as we fall for the freaks and their sociopathic lust for power, attention, and self-aggrandisement.

    181. Polly says:

      @ weechid

      ‘Have none of these folks noticed the constant broken promises like the repeated “Oh, yes. There will be an indyref next year” and the “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against its will”. I’m feeling New Labour all over again and sick to my stomach that both the Indy promises and the EU promise have been broken. “Oh, but what could they have done”. The job we bloody well elected’

      Once January comes, which a lot of those folks seem to be waiting for as being some kind of deadline for Westminster beyond which the SNP will be freer to act or something than they are now – what a lot don’t realise is it’s a deadline for SNP themselves.

      @ Ross

      ‘Stu is reaching here’

      No, he’s not. Yes, Abbott is all those things and yes she should have criticised his preferment, but since he’s trade envoy should could have criticised him on that, that’s where the real argument against him lies and would be much more effective than appearing to throw calumny on him, which is what any of his supporters will take out of the words she was quoted as saying. Folk who support Trump won’t even listen to any other argument once they hear those kind of words. It is never an effective argument. It also means people can be categorised as ‘untouchable’ just by a denunciation, however true or untrue.
      And the other real problem, as Stuart points out, is if leaders are so ideologically pure they only choose for a certain type of purity then they don’t chose the best people for jobs and they lose out by doing that.

    182. Papko says:

      @Lukas
      “If more people in the Indy movement were able to tell the difference between good politics and bad politics, we wouldn’t be in this position.”

      That comes with the territory in populist movements, you will always get them that are just out for a protest.

    183. Ottomanboi says:

      The answer to British nationalism is Scottish nationalism. Fighting fire with fire.
      It is so basic a child might grasp it.
      The SNP should listen to its ‘children’ or they may well seek ‘sustenance’ elsewhere.
      What soars can also plummet.
      Hubris is bad for political soul.

    184. susanXX says:

      I despair of the current SNP, I really do, but the posters this morning have been worth listening to. Thank you all.

    185. robertknight says:

      The SNP appears lost to those of us who have no inclination to silence free speech, no desire to allow people with male genitalia to have unfettered access to female-only spaces, and refuse to settle for the status quo of devolution.

      Troughers, carpetbaggers, devolutionists, ultra-wokes etc. swell their ranks from top to bottom, paying lip-service to Indy and tossing the occasional dry bone to silence critics or give succour to those who might be wavering in their loyalty.

      Treachery and skulduggery, straight from the works of Shakespeare and Orwell, and you have a perfect storm that will set Indy back decades. What is more, the Yoons see it too and delight in the Dear Leader’s efforts to put Indy on the back-burner; Brexit, Covid, post-Covid/hard-Brexit economic recovery…now is not the time.

      No wonder so many of the old guard are choosing not to stand again next year. Who can blame them?

      The politically homeless are desperately in need of a new home…

    186. Breeks says:

      PacMan says:
      4 September, 2020 at 7:41 am

      ….I doubt very much that he would want to go back and if he did, it would take far too long and far too damaging to clear out the carpetbaggers and deadwood that seems to be making up the SNP’s higher ranks…

      Sadly I think that’s correct. Since the ‘debate’ has polarised between those who back Sturgeon or Salmond, if Nicola was to stand down, I think there would be deep resentment from certain quarters and undoubtedly subversion of Alex Salmond’s resurrection. The debate would simply be musical chairs and nothing would be resolved. You might deplore that, I do, but we must be pragmatic.

      But we must not let this be about personality. I don’t hate Nicola Sturgeon, but I utterly loathe what she has done, or rather not done, and I think her abandonment of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty is particularly unforgivable. But even so, despite my anger, I like to think I am being objective in those opinions. The things she has done can yet be un-done, and by her too. There is still time, just, if only she had the mind to do it.

      Picture this… Nicola Sturgeon decides to focus on COV19 and readying Holyrood for 2021 Elections, BUT because she cannot give Independence due attention, she appoints or sponsors Joanna Cherry (who is an MP, which matters because Constitutional affairs are reserved), to instigate a legal, Constitutional challenge to Scotland’s Brexit subjugation. You could even dress that up as an olive branch to Joanna, saying look, we’re sorry about the Holyrood seat debacle, but rather having you in Holyrood, we need you in a vitally important new roll championing the Scottish Constitution…

      In essence, Nicola Sturgeon sponsors Joanna Cherry to do what Michael Keatings is doing, but the challenge to UK Sovereignty also has direct Brexit ramifications which will bite, and bite hard before December this year, and takes Scotland’s subjugation before the International Court of Justice at the UN at the earliest opportunity.

      It “might” even prove adequate just to threaten doing this, as part of an ultimatum / Scottish Backstop, but as a Nation we must be deadly serious about it and united in our resolve. This is end game stuff for the Union.

      Don’t underestimate the ramifications to this… Westminster would have to react, and that reaction would likely be angry, Knee-jerk, combative and arrogant, and it couldn’t be suppressed by the media. That too will likely be good for us, and swing the polls further in our favour. The Union will be in terminal decline, and too steep a decline to pull up.

      In “my” game of head chess, I would deploy my Alex Salmond piece as a YES Ambassador, with a mission to find common ground amongst the List Parties, and shepherding these groups under a single and cohesive YES alliance, ready to morph into ‘the’ YES movement, (assuming that works for the long suffering YES army as it is now), with Alex Salmond taking over the figurehead roll of Blair Jenkins, and YES having the status of a political List party, (but hopefully, not losing it’s broad church appeal)..

      Thus, the 2021 Elections, if they are to be plebiscite elections, (so Nicola’s schedule already doesn’t go far enough), would feature both an SNP Party (with membership frustrations tempered to a degree and held in abeyance), and one single List Party, which has raised the YES clans and united them.

      Next Spring, (if the Union survives that long under our determined Constitutional challenge), the election debate and supporting news coverage on the media would be obliged to have both an SNP spokesperson and a YES spokesman on all their debates and panels, for greater balance, and much greater opportunity to steer the narrative away from the Unionist agenda.

      And IF the Union is undone sooner, and the Treaty of Union has been breached by our subjugation, then the 2021 Holyrood ‘plebiscite’ elections simply evolve into a ratification plebiscite on Scottish Independence.

      So that’s my thumbnail sketch of how I see ourselves, but hopefully too, it makes clear in starkest possible terms how so much depends on Nicola Sturgeon having a good heart, and NOT being rogue, or the instigator of problems for Alex Salmond and Joanna Cherry, and NOT being lukewarm and dismissive of the YES grassroots, or Scotland’s sovereign Constitution.

      Do you see it yet, all you frustrated WGD people? We are not making trouble for trouble’s sake. We don’t hate Nicola, but recognise that she is pivotal to things happening or things not happening, and we MUST know where she stands. These events we want to see happening are vital to avert catastrophe for Scotland, and they are time sensitive. The clock is ticking, and it is Nicola Sturgeon who is responsible for this moribund lack of activity. That MUST change.

    187. Ottomanboi says:

      LUKAS SCHOLTS.
      The cult of personality surrounds Sturgeon as it did Salmond apparently.
      Dissent at your own risk.
      It is a measure of the lack of talent on offer in the field.
      The bright generally prefer to be outside and thus retain their integrity.
      The SNP is a model British party and it does the devolved administration thing to perfection.
      Brava Nicola!

    188. Big Jock says:

      As much as I am totally pissed off with the SNP.

      I have been reading many tweets from people suggesting they wont vote SNP on the 1st vote. Well who the feck are they going to vote for! To me this is madness. It’s letting your red mist control your actions.

      As Billy Connolly said:”Hingins too good for these people” .

      When we vote SNP it is to demonstrate that we want independence to the yoons, even if the leader is a complete waste of time. Can you imagine May 2021 if the SNP ended up losing seats in the 1st vote because of our own voters not turning out!

      We might as well pack up our bags. Yes Nicola has squandered her mandates, but at least it’s better than not having a mandate at all.

    189. Republicofscotland says:

      Well there you have it, the power grab bill is real and ready to implement.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18696523.new-power-grab-row-emerges-internal-market-memo-leaked/

      Meanwhile Westminster’s staging post the Scotland Office is hiding dark secrets from Holyrood.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18696516.scotland-office-something-hide-donald-trump-meeting/

    190. Republicofscotland says:

      Aberdonian tycoon to splash the cash to crush Scottish independence.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18696499.unionist-property-developer-alan-massie-gives-michael-gove-20k-donation/

    191. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Ottomanboi,

      Excellent reference to Hugh McDairmid and the turmoils of the SNP past and how things came good. Well at least until 2014.

      History looks like repeating itself as oft is the case…

      Surely it is time for the Scottish Independence List Party (Guaranteed IndyRef2)?

      There isn’t really that much time between now and May 2020.

      We need Joanna Cherry, Alex Salmond and a LIST of HEAVY HITTERS with the GRAVITAS to succeed clearing out the Machiavellian excrement and detritus from Bute House.

      Given Nicola Sturgeon’s obsessive stalky behaviour towards the actress who played Birgette Nyborg and the fictional tv series Borgen, Nicola will know she is very close to the end of her fake career as the leader of a party whose reason for being is Scottish Independence.

      Creepy Sturgeon and the Borgen tv source…

      http://www.archive.is/TIOtu

      ——————————————————————————–

      Ottomanboi says:
      4 September, 2020 at 8:33 am
      From the depths of the origins of Scottish nationalism.

      “He (Compton Mackenzie) had lost interest in the nationalist party. The politicians had pushed aside the dreamers. MacCormick’s hope of merging with the respectable Scottish party was realised in 1934, and in the same year Christopher Grieve was expelled for membership of the Communist party. The clash of utopian inspiration was silenced, and for a generation he watched the party he had helped to found become a platform for the ideas of small town politicians”
      [from ‘Compton Mackenzie, a life’ by Andro Linklater.]

      Not much has changed. Mediocrity does float!
      Put not thy trust in the dealers in politicks for thou shalt be well and truly shafted.

    192. Sharny Dubs says:

      Breeks @9:46
      All well and good, clear plan, but it depends on NS giving up the ego trip, being a part of a team and not the sole focal point, also I believe her goal is to secure the “new woke utopia” entrenched in the newly independent Scotland so that it cannot be undone.

      Your asking a lot for someone who has an ego the size of Texas.

    193. Stan Broadwood says:

      Why has it gone all quite on the List Party front?

      Why is there no new faces coming forward with ideas of their own?

      Why has people like Joanna Cherry become so silent?

      Why is the whole Yes Movement at the mercy of one deranged female?

      We have become a pathetic shower of cowards and Sturgeon will use this to win over our votes.

      She is playing us like the shower of complete wankers we have turned into.

      And make no mistake, once Sturgeon gets her majority at Holyrood, Independence will get kicked into touch, in favour of GRA and Hate Crime Bills.

      Full me once,,,,full me as often as you fuckin like,,, because I am gutless Scottish prick.

    194. robertknight says:

      Big Jock @ 9:57

      “Yes Nicola has squandered her mandates, but at least it’s better than not having a mandate at all.”

      Indulge me…

      Wandering, dazed and confused, through the landscape of a nuclear holocaust, I asked a man in uniform what had happened. “The Russians nuked us” he said. I asked if we had responded in kind. “No” he said. “How could that be?” I enquired. “We never planned on using ours, even if attacked” replied the soldier. “But remember this,” he continued, “it was better to have had them and not used them, than to have never had them at all”. I surveyed our surroundings and left him to his delusions.

      We face a hard-Brexit and a reduction in powers which currently reside at Holyrood, (powers which Westminster will never return), yet the Dear Leader insists on keeping her powder dry.

      “Better” you say? How so?

    195. Fireproofjim says:

      You may disagree with many things about the current policies of the SNP but next May there will be no alternative to prevent a Unionist No grouping.
      That would be the end of any possible Independence for the foreseeable future, so grit your teeth vote SNP and work for change.
      The great Otto Von Bismarck’s famous quote – “Politics is the art of the possible, sometimes the second best” – is never more true than in Scotland today.

    196. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Stan,

      You have a point about the List Party idea going quiet.

      Maybe it is a case of all the evidence coming out of the inquiry etc.

      Meanwhile I am hoping life imitates art and Nicola Sturgeon goes the same place that the lady who politely declined TWELVE emails from government officials asking for Nicola Sturgeon to meet Birgette Nyborg (two fake politician). Birgette went into the political skip: dumped out of office and became a high class money broker. Seriously you really couldn’t make this stuff up… https://archive.is/ymQrr

      I guarantee one thing for sure: all political careers do in fact end, It is just a matter of time until Sturgeon and her cabal of McWokeists are given their jotters. It happened to James Callaghan, Maggie Thatcher, John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Theresa May, Henry McLeish, Jim Wallace, Jack McConnell and it WILL happen to Nicola Sturgeon.

      The only one who resigned with any dignity and honour intact was Alex Salmond.

      Just like Frank Sinatra, Alex has a way of making a classic encore.

      Bonnie Dundee and all that.

    197. mike cassidy says:

      Meanwhile

      In the real world

      Well, SNP Glasgow City Council’s version

      How fortified from social reality must you be to contemplate such an aggressive act of social stupidity as closing services that offer lifelines to the desperate?

      https://archive.is/91naW

    198. kapelmeister says:

      With the power grab bill on its way, we are approaching the end of the devolution era. Scots will be faced with the choice of either independence or a sick 21st century version of colonial rule from London. Devolution is finished and gone will be that halfway house.

    199. Stan Broadwood says:

      Al Stuart 10.59am

      An apt song for Sturgeon will surely be,,,

      “The Party’s over.
      It’s time to call it a day”

      I am actually getting to the stage of really detesting this wummin Sturgeon.

      Just fuckin go Sturgeon.

      You are going to destroy Scotland.

    200. Stan Broadwood says:

      Sturgeon is a dictator.

      She feeds her massive ego with power.

      The more power she has, the bigger her ego becomes.

      She is personally in control of all aspects of Scottish life.

      She is surrounded by cowards, including us, the citizens of this pathetic nation.

      She will eventually fall, taking every one of us with her.

    201. Stan Broadwood says:

      Scotland,,,

      The nation with the biggest shower of shite bags ever known to man.

      At birth we all go through the process of having our spines removed.

      Any nation that can’t stand up to the likes of Sturgeon, deserves all the shit that is coming down the line to smash it off the face of the earth.

      Forever to be a Colony of mother engerland.

    202. Oneliner says:

      @Robert Galloway

      You’ll have to take my word on this. I share the name (forename and surname) of someone often in the Scottish news.

      At my time of life, I have no wish to be disambiguated.

    203. iain mhor says:

      @mr thms 12:26am

      A curious piece you linked and almost tells the real story and lets the cat out.
      First we must take the implication if the artucle that the Crowns of England and Scotland were abolished and a new Crown and State created – as in Jamie Saxt’s Imperial Crown and Nation attempt.

      So, unless something has been lost in translation, the ‘constitutional expert’ here is a bit suspect; though he attempts to clarify that once again, there will be a Personal Union of Crowns across two seperate Monarchies – as it used to be.
      Though the gist is evident (a return to the historical position, of two indepedent and seperate Kingdoms sharing a single Monarch) it does not clarify what he belives to be the current situation.

      I leave that to one side and look to the primary implication and most important; that Australia’s legislation (far less constitution) derives and owns legitimacy from its Monarchy – the ‘Crown’

      Here we see the same situation which exists for the UK. With the difference; that without a codified constitution, the UK’s lies entirely within the corpus of its legislation and that legislation is legitimised entirely via the Monarchy.

      So to the salient points, which are the questions never answered: Were either or both the Crowns of Scotland and England extinguished- if so which and when. Was a new Crown established, if so when and what is its designation. Were the Kingdoms of England and Scotland extinguished, if so when. Was a new Nation State established, if so when and what is its designation.

      Some answers to these questions may appear apparent; such as a new State was created, called initially Great Britain etc and latterly the UK etc. Its nature lies unanswered – One or Two in One – Miaphysites, or Monophysites – A new Chalcedonic Council may have difficulty settling that, for you won’t find that answer – far less the nature of the Crowns.

      What has ocurred however, is a de-facto state of operations, labouring under the assumption (importantly, not declaration) that the Scots Crown was, if not extinguished, subordinate to a suzerein English Crown.

      Evidence of this lies with the current Monarch, who claims both the English and Scots Crown and has not implied, or stated, that the Scots Crown was extingushed – yet pointedly assumes the title Elizabeth II and implies suzereinty of one over the other.
      Though what is in a name? She is entitled to designate herself Queen Borg Equal of Heaven if she chooses – as may any one of us – but Monarchy tends to be very particular and have reasons for such.

      The next point is the de-facto operation of the Parliament of Great Britain etc latterly UK etc as a continuator of the English Parliament – the Scots Parliament having been extinguished and Scotlands representatives ‘folded’ into that Parliament.
      Similarly the new ‘Unitary States of GB & UK etc. – where the Kingdom of England is the continuator, The Kingdom of Scotland was extinguished and folded within it and the new name for this State applied.

      Great difficulty lies in the fact, that the current UK constitution (ie its corpus of legislation) nowhere codifies any such things – quite the opposite indeed.

      So to bring my wearisome comment to conclusion – the interesting article you linked to; offers that all UK legislation derives legitimacy from the Crown – else the UK is a state of Republic.
      If one wishes to attack the legitimacy of UK legislation, one does not query the particulars of indivudual legislation – one must go to the source – that is query its legitimacy and the ‘Crown’ directly.

      That all boils down to the basic ‘Which Crown/s am I addressing and which denies assent’. One may care to squint eyes and disect the following, “Which Crown indeed”

      The Queen: Opening if the Scottish Parliament 1999
      “…This new Parliament and the symbolism of this opening ceremony are rightly anchored in the history of Scotland…
      The Crown placed before us today has been passed from Sovereign to Sovereign at least since the coronation of Alexander III in 1294…
      I am pleased therefore now to declare the Scottish Parliament open and in so doing to present to you this newly-commissioned mace, a modern embodiment of an ancient symbol of power, legitimacy and the relationship between parliament and Crown”
      Let it serve to remind all of the lawful authority vested in the Scottish Parliament from today”

    204. Big Jock says:

      Robert – Indulge me.

      Based on your theory about not using nuclear weapons. Your alternative seems to be giving up.

      In other words don’t vote SNP because Nicola won’t use the mandate.

      Two things wrong with that. You don’t know that Nicola will be the leader for 5 years. So you need the mandate for the next leader.

      Secondly. Despite past knowledge of Nicola’s track record. You cannot say with certainty the mandate won’t be used.

      What alternative is there to SNP on the first vote other than a white flag.

    205. mr thms says:

      iain mhor @ 12:19

      Thank you for your reply.

      Exactly.

      I have posted many times, here and elsewhere that Article 50 is about facilitating the dissolution of the United Kingdom.

    206. bipod says:

      Just as expected then https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-daily-data-for-scotland/

      * This figure includes people who are no longer being treated for COVID-19. This is being reviewed and will be replaced next week with a measure that focuses on hospital in-patients with a more recent positive COVID-19 test.

      They have been over-counting the number of patients in hospital being treated for covid. Will nicola own up to this mistake or will she just pass it off as some small insignificant technical error.

    207. robbo says:

      What did Scotland or WOS ever do, to be lumbered with a roaster like Stan Broadwood?

      Asking for a few thousand friends.

    208. Polly says:

      iain mhor

      Hahaha. Elizabeth the Borg Queen of Heaven. You’re comments are never wearisome.

      @ Big Jock

      ‘What alternative is there to SNP on the first vote other than a white flag.’

      I agree with this too. Whatever the problems within SNP it’s too late now to change horses completely. Another list party hopefully will be successful and then become another full Independence Party in its own right for later. Whatever is to happen we have to have a strong vote for independence now.

    209. iain mhor says:

      @mr thms 12:50pm

      Ta for wading through it!
      How to achieve if not the dissolution, the power to decide, exercises everyone. If it is claimed this is not a judicial issue, but a political issue and if the political issue must be a constitutional issue – then let it be so.
      So I offer this thought exercise:

      If anyone wants a hint about how one might approach disecting the Queens Speech at the opening (reconvening) of the Scottish Parliament – a couple of interpretations may arise.

      “The Crown placed before us” – a use of the the Royal Plural and not meant of the collective gathering – the Crown laid subordinately before Elizabeth II and her English Crown.
      “…newly-commissioned mace etc” this symbol defines the relationship between the Scottish Parliament and English Crown of suzereinty.
      “..the lawful authority” under the English Crown.

      Of course, this is an extreme exercise in semantics and inferences and if we applied this to every utterance made daily, we would be perpetually stymied. So we may alternatively take it at face value, in context and interpret it thus:

      The proceedings are under the aegis of the Scots Crown, laid before all collectively in witness, to remove doubt as to which Crown is presiding.
      The new Mace is to be coeval with Westminster’s ‘Mace in Parliament’ it is the symbol of Royal Authority of the Scots Crown and without it, the Scottish Parliament cannot meet or pass laws. Its Royal Authority is that of the Scots Crown in Parliament.
      The Scottish Parliament holds the power and lawful authority, under the Scots Crown, to pass laws.

      Whither then Bills of the Scottish Parliament for Royal Assent? Whither the conflicting legislation and authority of the two Crowns and Parliaments?
      The resolution of these matters is what scares the utter bejeezes out of everyone and is the ‘Holy handgrenade’

      Take your pick, or add your own interpretations.

    210. Breeks says:


      Iain mhor says:
      4 September, 2020 at 12:19 pm

      …So to bring my wearisome comment to conclusion – the interesting article you linked to; offers that all UK legislation derives legitimacy from the Crown – else the UK is a state of Republic…

      I didn’t find it wearisome at all Iain.

      It is the same paradox created when describing how two definitively incompatible sovereign and absolute conditions can “somehow” be merged into one “joined” sovereignty. It cannot be physically done.

      All you can do, is to invent an arbitrary convention which presents itself as the ‘sovereign’ solution, and bury the fallacy that such a situation can ever exist under a myriad of further conventions and false provenance until the truth is hidden behind layer upon layer of impenetrable sophistry.

      You create the situation of “before”, and you create the “after” situation you desire, but you gloss over and obscure the impossible process of transforming the one situation into the other.

      The UK Union represents nothing but the triumph of Imperial sophistry over Empirical truth. It is high time that truth was re-established and the sophistry meticulously debunked.

    211. Ottomanboi says:

      Important communiqué from Covid Central Command.
      https://off-guardian.org/2020/09/03/hancocks-half-hour/
      We’re all in it together, stay safe, stop thinking, protect our politicians.

    212. robertknight says:

      Big Jock

      The problem, as I see it, is that by repeatedly kicking the IndyRef2 mandate can down the road, Indy is slowly being taken out the equation by the SNP itself, therefore if you no longer regard the SNP as being a sure and certain path to Indy, (under the present leadership I’ll grant you), you’re then left with the other non-Indy related SNP policies to mull over.

      If you’re not a fan of governments which want to restrict freedom of speech or who insist that people having male genitalia should have the right to access female-only spaces, then that, combined with a woeful record in defending Scotland’s inerests (“we will not allow Scotland to be dragged blah blah blah”) does nothing to encourage you to place your X in the box marked SNP.

      For the now politically homeless Indy supporter, like myself, the prospect of NOT voting for the SNP in it’s present form scares me less than voting for a Wokeist bunch of troughers who pay lip service to Scotland’s constitutional rights and aspirations.

      I’m sure that there are those in the SNP who think that folk like me, having no other choice, will simply hold their nose on polling day and vote SNP. They may be right in some cases, but not all…

    213. Meg merrilees says:

      So here’s an iterating one:

      Grant Shapps today states that Scotland has ‘jumped the gun’ by imposing quarantine on folks returning from Portugal before the whole of the UK could introduce a united decision. Funnily enough, Wales has beaten Scotland to it by a full 24 hours but they don’t seem to have ‘jumped the gun’….. am I missing something?

    214. Nell G says:

      Al-Stuart says:
      4 September, 2020 at 10:21 am

      Creepy Sturgeon and the Borgen tv source…

      http://www.archive.is/TIOtu

      The most disturbing thing about that article is that we have an elected leader who tunes into X-Factor and the Voice. Why does that not surprise me….

      They do say that one’s choice of music is a window into the soul.

      Who thinks far enough into the future to believe there will be motion pictures made about them? That is frightening but explains a lot.

    215. Famous15 says:

      Sovereignty in England and that includes Wales and NI , is enshrined in the Queen in Parliament. (AC Dicey)

      In Scotland it is enshrined in the people of Scotland.

      So moving on I am tempted to search the attic for my University notes on self harm to explain the SNP desperation to bring in the Hate Crime Bill and the amendments to GRA.

      Sitting with my near octogenarian wife I made a crack about being coffin dodgers and in a flash of revelation as if on the road to Damascus I realised I could be jailed for that remark if she were to take umbrage and call the polis .

      Aaaaaaaaaaargh.

    216. susanXX says:

      Well said Robert knight.

    217. mike cassidy says:

      The transpolice get their claws into the Co-op

      I know its no longer ‘The Store’ of my childhood

      But the f*****g Co-op

      https://twitter.com/coopuk/status/1301481417583534080

    218. robbo says:

      oh ffs i give up.Enough to drive you to drink.Whr the fuck do we get these morons?

      Tory MP’s hubby-say no more.

      Doc tweets

      https://twitter.com/Dr_PhilippaW/status/1301810087057666048

    219. Colin Alexander says:

      The 31st of January 2020 is a date which will go down in Scottish history as a day of great infamy.

      The day the SNP announced their unconditional surrender to the British Empire. The day they confirmed their betrayal of the many Indy mandates given to them by the people of Scotland.

      That is the day I stopped holding my nose and swallowing SNP mince.

      The SNP can promise all they want now; I don’t give a fig. They won’t get my vote for as long as the Imelda Marcos Sturgeon and Ferdinand Murrell regime are in control.

    220. frogesque says:

      Colin Alexander:2.10pm

      So, who you gonna vote for? The Tory Party darling Ruth, Wile Coyote and the band of Yellow Tories or how about Richard the Red and his diminishing band sit on their hands abstainers.

      Or Farage and Galloway, they’ll do a thing for a vote.

      Greens? A compliment to Indy but they will never get us there on their own.

      Mind, I’m talng first vote here, I realise a second list vote might be a wee bit complicated so we’ll skip that. For now

    221. Big Jock says:

      Remember this.

      No matter how many personal reasons you have for not voting SNP. Mainly due to their hair brained obsession with gender politics. The biggest and most important reason for voting for them, is because they are the only independence party that can form a government.

      Scottish independence first, party politics later. I would still vote for them if they believed in a flat earth. The SNP use us , so we must use them.

      We can get rid of them when we are independent.

    222. Ottomanboi says:

      The cost of Covidity.
      https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/revealed-who-profited-from-the-uk-governments-coronavirus-spending-boom_n_5f3ef4e8c5b6305f32553f85?
      The 45k deaths attributed to Covid-19 is questionable given that there is not a 100% effective test for the disease, anywhere.
      Comorbidity is the likely reason. But who cares about accuracy. Just tick the appropriate box…no hassle.

    223. The Dissident says:

      You can’t simply say “Well she’s good at press conferences so it doesn’t matter that she never campaigns for Independence, is beholden to corporate lobbyists and is obsessed with gender based identity politics.”

    224. Colin Alexander says:

      frogesque

      I want to vote for a candidate or party that will seek a direct mandate for independence. But, it’s unlikely there will be any. They are all seeking bums on seats in the colonial parliament.

      So, it looks like I’ll no be voting at all.

    225. kapelmeister says:

      MacAskill using his column in The Scotsman today to criticise the lack of accountability in the SNP NEC. Kenny says he asked the National Treasurer how the Chief Executive’s salary is set and the Treasurer said he didn’t know. Wow.

    226. leither says:

      @coco
      Imelda Marcos Sturgeon and Ferdinand Murrell……….

      what are you? 6

    227. Mike Chisholm says:

      Not a party politics type of guy as generally don’t like MPs

      Joined SNP for 1 year after Indy vote to sustain momentum for Yes campaign

      Will no longer vote for SNP as now view them as being riddled with self-serving wokey pokey types

      Gone right off Sturgeon as she seems to surround herself with these types and subscribes to the wokey pokey agenda and has lost touch with reality and indeed what her role as FM / SNP leader is

      Hate the way certain people in SNP tried to stitch up Salmond

      Not interested in identity politics of which the SNP now appears to be the chair(trans)woman of.

      I know the CV-19 pandemic is awful and needs to be monitored very carefully but something about Sturgeon’s handling of it smacks of the nanny state and trying to score political points against Bojo.

      After almost 6 years in the role, it’s time for someone new to lead the SNP but sadly, there doesn’t appear to be much of a successor available and it would likely be someone who was born a man but thinks he’s a woman who would take the role and be praised for being ‘brave'(heart) in heels!

    228. Robert Graham says:

      A wee chink in Tory Westminsters armour ,
      the deviation from England’s preferred country list should show the SNP just how to annoy the Tory government and by Christ they are Squealing about it ,
      its not fair they cry oh dear how sad what else can we really Duck them up with by doing exactly the opposite from what’s happening in the south , in fact if the SNP are clever they could work in tandem with the Welsh government , kinda take in in turn to bugger up Bawjaws might not get anywhere but it will bloody piss them off . Now that can’t be a bad thing while they are occupied with Brexit and the climate change mischief makers who are running rings round the MET

    229. Al-Stuart says:

      .

      Frogesque and Colin Alexander,

      You raise an interesting point about who to vote for in May 2021.

      I can’t stand any of the Unionist liars, thieves and shysters.

      That self-centred duplicitous twat in co-charge of the Greens and his ginger-minger pre-pubescent sidekick can go make a long jump off off of a short pier.

      So according to the Sturgeonites, I must vote SNP1. No chance whilst the Dreghorn Dissembler is in power. (Though I WILL VOTE ALEX SALMOND LIST PARTY2).

      I will be DAMNED if I am voting for any party that supports the HATE Bill to kill off sites like Wings Over Scotland for the slightest Wokeist perceived transgression.

      Neither will I vote for the Dregs of Drehorn when she is enabling the GRA Bill to let Pervs into kiddies changing room bill.

      So if any SNP MSPs lurk on this site I am looking to register in either Caithness (or stay on the Roll at Angus).

      Graeme Dey, you are destined to go the way of Mike Weir ex-MP.

      Cos LibDem Jamie Dim-But-Nice Stone is already ensconced up at Caithness.

      I have voted SNP1 and SNP2 in every election since 2007. No more. Unless covidTV presenter Nicola Morbid Puss gets her P45.

      Pack yer backs Graeme DEY MSP for Angus, I know thee are enough of us second class people who lent our vote to the SNP who can extinguish your little and downward trending majority in Angus. Back to scribbling guff for the sports page at the Courier. Though they ain’t hiring cos the dead trea press is beyond redemption.

      ———————————————-

      frogesque says:
      4 September, 2020 at 2:36 pm
      Colin Alexander:2.10pm

      So, who you gonna vote for? The Tory Party darling Ruth, Wile Coyote and the band of Yellow Tories or how about Richard the Red and his diminishing band sit on their hands abstainers.

      Or Farage and Galloway, they’ll do a thing for a vote.

      Greens? A compliment to Indy but they

    230. Donald Raymond says:

      So what is your prediction: will Scotland be independent within the next ten years?

    231. Republicofscotland says:

      Sure Clerkin can a wee bit radical at times but these charges especially the offensive banner one, is surely over the top. Clerkin should be congratulated for some of his past campaigns holding Sturgeon to account over the lack of funding for homeless folk and for confronting Henry Jackson Society member Jim Murphy in 2014 over his lies.

      Clerkin in my opinion has been pigeon holed by the police and Scottish government as the wrong type of independence supporter, ie, an active one.

      “The protester said he was protesting to stop people coming to Scotland during the English school holidays to prevent the spread of covid-19 from England into Scotland.”

      https://archive.is/3vxCJ

    232. Lukas Scholts says:

      I find it quite shocking to see indy supporters on here still defending sturgeon and arguing that we must continue to support the SNP. Those are the last things you should be doing if you want independence.

      The polls show that around 55% of the Scottish people want independence. Sturgeon is the first obstacle to that. She is blocking us at this stage, standing in the way, defying the Scottish people.

      If we replace Sturgeon — and/or the SNP — we can move on to the next obstacle, Westminster.

    233. willie says:

      A very good commentary from Iain Lawson setting out a strategy plan for discussion.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2020/09/04/so-why-dont-we-do-this-nicola/

      Makes one think how utterly removed Nicola Sturgeon is from pursuing independence. Iain’s piece is well worth a read. This is the type of discussion, the type of thinking, the type of action that we need to have.

      Westminster is set to destroy the Scottish Parliament. They are actively working on it just now. Our economy is shattered and it is getting worse. Where is our recovery plan.

      This piece is well worth a read. This is the type of thinking and action we need, and need now.

      Now is the time!!!

    234. Tannadice Boy says:

      As I have said before on this blog. I will not vote SNP1 period! If there is not a new Indy party for the list vote then I won’t vote at all. I have voted in every election apart from one where I was delayed on a short notice work trip abroad. My choice, my prerogative. But I am so unhappy with the SNP on a number of fronts. Not voting won’t make any difference… except to me.

    235. kapelmeister says:

      willie @4:54 pm

      Sturgeon has not the capability, or the character, or the urge to carry out anything akin to that action plan put forward by Iain Lawson.

      Sorry to say, Sturgeon is the most disastrous balloon since the Hindenburg.

    236. Republicofscotland says:

      Not to give your constituency vote to the SNP next year would be a pretty stupid thing to do. You’d be handing the initiative straight back to Westminster in doing so. But by all means give your list vote to another independence minded party next year

    237. Colin Alexander says:

      Someone calls me a childish name then criticises me for acting like a 6 year-old. The irony of it is probably lost on them.

      With the number of politically motivated prosecutions of pro-indy supporters mounting, I think Imelda Marcos Sturgeon is an apt description.

      The Filipino Marcos couple used politically motivated prosecutions to suppress democracy. I just hope Scotland’s Marcos couple don’t resort to assassination and death squads too. They’ve killed off enough elderly as it is in hospitals and care homes with their mis-management of Coronavirus.

      So hopefully, they will only stick to jailing (and trying to frame) pro-indy supporters and leave political assassinations to their imperial overlords in England.

    238. Lizg says:

      Here’s a thought……..
      Given that the phrase “all political careers end in failure ” seems to be true, and that we in Scotland will have the ability to design our own parliament framed by a Constitution.
      Also Not forgetting how nasty the backlash can be by ( see above comments)and for the electorate (we are out of time to act ) especially when a whole country’s future turns on one person.

      Does anyone think that Restricting the length of time that any one person can hold the Role of First Minister could be useful?
      For arguments sake *only after 2 elections can an individual perform the role, on the 3rd ballot that person is no longer eligible and another candidate must be chosen!
      This removes that power from the party’s to some degree and puts it in our Constitution!
      There’s also the option of a directly elected First Minister and how that could work to be considered?

    239. Dogbiscuit says:

      There was I thinking Whitford was intelligent even though she full heartedly voted our rights and freedoms out of existence in March.
      You can see why they’re not worthy of a vote as they don’t believe in democracy.

    240. Effijy says:

      Prof John Curtis- Bought Unionist claims an SNP majority
      Couldn’t be ignored and Westminster would have to agree
      To a referendum within 2-3 years.

      What and then another 2-3 years negotiating the return of our Maritime border,
      Our Oil, our Fishing rights, our Electricity and Gas, our Water, their Nuclear waste and
      Weapons, their PPI, and their Michelle Moan and their Ruth Harrison.

      2027 is not acceptable under any circumstances!

      https://www.facebook.com/290782454428626/posts/1571088689731323/?d=n

    241. Andy Ellis says:

      @Lizg

      It’s an interesting thought and given recent experience with the party I’d certainly be more open to the concept of a Presidential style system à la USA which would make it easier to restrict the incumbent as they do in USA (and France I think?).

      Whether the concept would fly given our existing parliamentary system is open to doubt, but perhaps there is something to be said for considering a separation of powers whereby the executive and legislature could be of different parties?

      No system is perfect of course, but given the direction of travel of the current SNP, I’m not sure I’d altogether trust them with the level of power and patronage they might enjoy under our existing system? Perhaps with a written constitution, a non-political Supreme Court and beefed up committee system at Holyrood there would be enough control, but ah hae ma doots!

    242. callmedave says:

      Scotland game highlights tonight or listen to radio shortbread OR

      Try the link: if you fancy it on the computer.

      Scotland on the choice list.

      http://www.hesgoal.com/

    243. Fergus Denoon says:

      That’s an awful lot of logical fallacies you’ve presented there…

    244. callmedave says:

      PS: Oops!

      Their times are 1 hr ahead so don’t be late.

    245. Ottomanboi says:

      The last post:
      I have come to the conclusion that Scotland will never be independent, a view held by Eamonn de Valera, because the Scots don’t want it enough. They get more material benefit out of being in the union than out of it. Being kicked in the balls, insulted and treated like something on England’s shoe is worth it for the security of thraldom and having Britannia to wipe your backside occasionally.
      All mouth, no action and a pathetic excuse for country.
      I give up!

    246. Breeks says:

      Lizg says:
      4 September, 2020 at 5:56 pm

      Does anyone think that Restricting the length of time that any one person can hold the Role of First Minister could be useful?

      Yes I do, but having said that, assuming it was restricted to one or two Parliamentary terms, it wouldn’t have helped us with our Nicola Sturgeon ‘situation’.

      Much more important would be to have Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution properly codified, and agreed protocols in place to reign in any rogue Parliament, establish a constitutional code of practice, and set out parameters for possible impeachments. Holyrood should know it’s place… beneath the will of the sovereign people.

      If Westminster can be empowered by threats to close Holyrood, then why shouldn’t Scotland empower itself with constitutional mechanisms to impeach it?

    247. Breeks says:

      Thinking about it, I suppose that process of codification might already be started, with Martin Keatings test case…

    248. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Dissident
      I’d suggest the obsession with gender politics in the party, is a consequence of self-ID supporters not understanding the social implications of public law. And not understanding how open democracy works. The party is following radical interpretations of the philosophies of science and law, that are antagonistic towards the principle of “universalism” and “best practice” in policy design. The party’s management is simply clueless.

      Great Issues in Philosophy
      CHAPTER 3: MIND

      https://www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/120/3-mind.htm

    249. mike cassidy says:

      Another day in the erasure of women.

      This has been a glimpse of Scotland’s future

      https://twitter.com/CrilPip/status/1301942268560113671

    250. Willie says:

      Selling the jerseys. Or selling us a bummer.

      Why is it that information like rates of infection, testing results are a secret. A secret whereby not even elected parliamentarians can find out what the test results are,.

      Such info is available in England but in Scotland it is a secret known only to the COVID Queen herself.

      Broadway the daily COVID briefings may have become but people have the right to know what the COVID statistics are. Surgeon has no tright to withhold them.

      Herewith a link to the public health website that shows the data per council authority but the tecdata withheld by Sturgeon.

      Something smells. The Corona Queen is playing games.

      https://lginform.local.gov.uk/reports/view/lga-research/covid-19-case-tracker-area-quick-view-1?mod-area=S12000039&mod-group=AllCouncilAreasInCountry_Scotland&mod-type=namedComparisonGroup

    251. mike cassidy says:

      Another day in the fight against the erasure of women.

      Well worth a read

      https://twitter.com/TonyBir16640145/status/1301864435275849728

    252. Daisy Walker says:

      Iain Lawson’s idea is very good.

      It would actually be in our best interests for a S30 order to be formally refused, so a plebiscite election becomes ‘the only way’.

      In order to assist it – lets campaign – and get Indy support over the 60% mark before years end.

      That too will put power to all our elbows.

      Right just now – I think I’m right in saying – the official SNP line is that we cannot go for a S30/Indy Ref just now because the polls are not at 60%… and Scotland’s voters are ‘not ready’.

      Well, they’re not ready to lose the NHS, their parliament, and their jobs…. and we seem to be meekly going into that bad night. Lets wake them up, and then give them a country to vote for.

    253. Lizg says:

      Andy Ellis @ 6.31
      Exactly Andy we should learn not only from the pitfalls that have shown up in other Constitions, but also from the elements in our own Parliament ( of which there are many ) that give the electorate a mountain to climb to address any concerns

    254. stonefree says:

      @ kapelmeister at 3:46 pm

      When Murrell got the job replacing Micheal Russell who was paid £35,000,
      Murrell’s salary from the word go was £100,000, rumours of now £200,000 and more have been floated ,
      But from accounts , Not sure if it was this site there was a pdf file
      Put the figure at circa £150,000.
      Over 4 times Russell’s salary

    255. willie says:

      I think you got it right Walker when you said that we’re walking towards losing parliament, our NHS and indeed. if I may add. our legal system,

      And meanwhile now is not the time, and after Covid we have the economic disaster to address, no doubt why our First Minister talks of a sometime S30 referendum.

      Time we took back control – and we will. This nonsense has to stop.

    256. Papko says:

      OttomanBhouy
      “The last post:
      I have come to the conclusion that Scotland will never be independent, a view held by Eamonn de Valera, because the Scots don’t want it enough.”

      Farewell, and that shall be your epitaph.

      Eammon de Valera would of loathed the Black and Tans and they were disproportionately Scottish, (I think the figure was 20%)
      So perhaps he had no love for Scots?
      Whatever his assessment is eerily prescient some hundred years later.

    257. Andy Ellis says:

      @Lizg 8.80

      I’ve always seen it as a huge plus of indy that the existing Scottish political environment and system can (and should?) be seen not just as new wine in old bottles. The past few years I’ve come to the conclusion that it probably isn’t going to be enough just gaining indy and carrying on the current system.

      I actually think we need a debate about whether we want something different, and maybe that IS separation of powers via a directly elected executive and an assembly to legislate.

    258. Republicofscotland says:

      British nationalist, Labour’s Ian Murray, considered defecting to the Lib/Dems last year. One wonders if he laundered his Union Jack suit, in anticipation of the media interest it would bring.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18699193.ian-murray-held-secret-talks-defection-lib-dems/

    259. Big Jock says:

      Scotland pretty poor as usual. However excellent Christie penalty. 1 nil Scotland.

    260. Alec Lomax says:

      Some of the posts on this thread dripping in green ink.

    261. twathater says:

      @ Big jock and robertknight this is the quandry for indy people this whole fcuk up is causing , Nicola her maj Sturgeon has US all by the balls , I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY SHE IS BLACKMAILING INDY SUPPORTERS and for that alone she should be despised and outed, the bait is dangled but NO promises

      Many people are celebrating that she has deigned to mention the indy word but fail to recognise that’s all she has said ,NO DATE has been mentioned or any OTHER process , is this the A or B or C plan

      I am not nor or have I ever been a member of ANY political party but what she is doing to the people of Scotland is reprehensible she KNOWS what this cabal of fuckers in WM are doing to the people and what they have planned yet she STILL plays her wee power games

    262. cynicalHighlander says:

      Anybody blackmailing people on how to vote can get to f*** If this GRA nonsense gets past because the SNP win big then women will be disenfranchished for decades as trying to repeal that legislation will be dragged through the courts endlessly funded by some extremely rich families where money is a means to an end.

    263. twathater says:

      Barrhead boy has a post “is it finally game on” while although still suspicious of the moves, just like many on here and elsewhere he asks people to come together and put their differences and policy objections aside and vote SNP, broadly I agree that we have to make sacrifices to reach our goal BUT why is it that we compromise to come together to vote SNP but Sturgeon still REFUSES to move from her exalted dictatorial position on the GRA and HCB

      As Liz g and breeks says when we become indy this situation must NEVER happen again, where politicians THINK that we proles have to suck it up , and just for starters I would have elections EVERY 3 years so that they don’t become complacent and know who they work for

    264. cirsium says:

      @willie, 4.54

      Thanks for posting that link to Iain Lawson’s blog
      Nicola sends an ultimatum to Boris stating that unless a Section 30 order is approved in sufficient time for an Independence Referendum to be held on the same day as the May 2021 elections, then the constituency vote in those elections will represent the substitute referendum where the Party winning the majority of seats wins a mandate for or against Independence.

      That sounds more like it. I would go for the total vote.

    265. ahundredthidiot says:

      Talk about selling the jerseys, lets sell the jerseys of the weak woke fools taking the knee for a Marxist organisation at our National Stadium.

      Arseholes, how dare they do that with my Countries shirt on their back.

    266. iain mhor says:

      @Breeks

      Indeed, the codification is required – or, at the very least, the questions must be asked and they have not been. A lot is hanging on a shoogly peg and has deep ramifications – which is why they are never put to the proof for fear.

      As with all things (and certainly with Law) it is of paramount importance to identify and ask the correct questions. Which is where fannying around in the minutiae of existing UK legislation is – well, fannying around – unless it is laying ground to lead to the primary questions.

      In Millar & Cherry for example ,it was fannyimg around; because although the ground was laid, the bottom-up approach was always designed to cease at the success of ‘proving’ the singular piece of legislation they were interested in – Royal Prerogative to Prorogue/ A50 – and never proceeded to the ultimate end point – Royal Prerogative, UK Parliamentary Sovereignty and the Crowns.

      Much as Martin Keating’s case is possibly laudable (still don’t know the details (public record still being worked up I believe) I think it will be in a similar vein to the Millar/Cherry case. Begin laying ground but only to attempt resolving the point of a specific piece of legislation and dare no further.
      However, if it’s actual purpose is preemptory – to inded proceed to a full blown constitutional proof – that’s a different matter entirely.

      The current ambiguous situation of the Crowns and Parliaments is not insurmountable constitutionally. Nor would it necessarily cause a dissolution of Union. It could (would) codify much and require intensive re-working of UK legislation. For politick it may be agreed much is not retrospective, though much may be annulled and amended.

      The ‘duality of Crowns in Parliaments merely places the UK constitutional footing back where it has always purported to be – an equal Union of Kingdoms under a Personal Union of Crowns.
      At most it would lead to the Independence of the Scottish Parliament; but that does not necessitate an end of the UK as a political union. Westminster is eminently capable of adalting and acting as a seat of both an English Crown Parliament and Union Chamber – as EVEL shows.

      Westminster as a nominal English Parliament (EVEL) to fall under the aegis of the English Crown in Parliament and its Assent to legislatiin.
      Similarly The Scottish Parliament sits under the powers and authority of the Scots Crown in Parliament and it’s Assent.
      Where cross-Union legislation is required, it is heard as a Union Chamber under the aegis of both Crowns & both Parliaments must assent.

      *Merely an assumption here; that Westminster seperately hosts a seat of Joint Union Parliaments and legislature – though that’s not necessary, just logistically logical – at least for an interrum, until some alternative Chamber is perhaps instituted.

      It may in fact curb much of (both?) Parliaments (Crowns in Parliaments) potential prediliction for riding roughshod over democratic proceedings by invoking either ‘Royal Prerogatives For where such prerogatives (or rather legislation tied inexorably to such Parliamentary Sovereignties) become incompatible, dare I suggest saner and more democratic legislation and agreement may be reached.

      The checks and balances of two Parliaments, at a stretch, could argue for the obsolesence of an upper chamber (House of Lords) but that’s another thread.

      The UK Parliament is no stranger to wrestling with dualities (Factortame/Rule of Recognition etc) though it does always tend to the maxim of; where incompatible Laws of Unions or Treaties apply – UK Parliamentary Sovereignty always takes precedence.

      In the hypothetical scenarios I’ve been inelegantly outlining; there is no single UK Parliamentary Sovereignty to call upon – to stubbornly insist on such Prerogatives merely invites the English Parliament to ultimately withdraw from the Union with Scotland – indeed vice-versa.

      Just as the UK Parliament has decided to end the Treaty of Union with the EU – precisely because it continued to brook no dilution of UK Sovereignty undershared EU legislation.

      As a further observation of the endless ability to adaot to dualities – The UK currently operates Independent Anglo-Scottish legal systems and for all the suspicion of the Supreme Court as an ‘English Animal’, it has not (as yet) decided to rule against the authority of Scots Law as subordinate to English Law.
      Again, that’s primarily for reasons that to do so invites challenge and the ultimate constitutional questions may well be forced to be put to the proof.

      Anyway, I’ll just end here, as I’m in danger of flogging this exercise to death and a Friday night dram is calling.

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      Prejudiced hostility towards the woke perspective is a good indicator of political identity and outlook. Especially as I’ve just shown folks it is a laudable perspective.

      The Spirituality of Conciousness: From
      Mindfulness to Faith to the Awakening of Self

      ABSTRACT
      This thesis is an exploration of the concepts of what the spirituality of consciousness means in several key areas of the intellectual, emotional, and spiritual self. Many students and professionals walk through their educational and professional careers filled with confusion, lack of self-understanding, a yearning for something more but never discovering it in the places we find ourselves for most of our day-to-day interactions. My hope is that this thesis will give insight to how students can overcome obstacles and fears in their lives in order to move forward, and, when necessary, to move past themselves.

      As a young, Black, immigrant woman who is a first-generation college student and student affairs professional, the methodology of Scholarly Personal Narrative (SPN) appeals to me the most in exploring the spirituality of consciousness. Therefore, I will be using SPN to highlight a portion of my journey through three lenses: mindfulness counseling, religo-spirituality, and understanding what it means to unlock our minds and its complexities through a spiritually-enriched education.

      I will also highlight how we can disseminate the knowledge of self-awareness and self-awakening as life teachers, educators, and learners to those who come after us – the next generation. The holistic preservation of self and mind is a vital stage in our human existence.

      As higher education administrators and teachers, we should be able to take the risk and accept the challenge to delve deeper within ourselves to be able to move beyond the curriculum and see the full humanity of our students, hopefully leading to more joyful, productive, loving, creative and brilliant minds. How do we do this? How do we awaken to life, to learning, to each other, in the midst of chaos? This thesis attempts to point the way.

      https://scholarworks.uvm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1225&context=graddis

    268. Lizg says:

      Andy Ellis @ 8.46
      I agree Andy ….. We have an opportunity to do things not just differently but better…
      We do need to be very vigilant that after the Yes Vote is in and before our Constitution is adopted that people don’t switch off, and leave it to the “powers that be ” to organise Scotland for us.
      Because of one thing I’m sure, if we do it will no be our interests that’s prioritised.
      Unfortunately after 6/7 long years I suspect the bulk of the electorate will indeed switch off !

      But there’s always us political obsessives who can start asking the awkward questions. 🙂
      Nevertheless we will be very unlikely to have the power or influence needed to do everything so I’d concentrate on the one thing a throw everything at that
      As I see it the main problem with all the proposals for a Constitution so far is the suggested mechanisms for Constitutional change.
      Two thirds of Holyrood voting to change our Constitution is just not bloody good enough and bypasses the people.
      As you said there’s mibbi a need for a second chamber and certainly a separation of powers.
      But I’d also argue that the Sovereign People should have not only their ultimate power wrtten in the Constitution but also HOW to use it too.
      Two thirds of Holyrood fine
      A Second Chamber also fine
      But all they should be allowed to vote on is putting the proposed changes to Our Constitution to a Reffrendum !
      A group of Politicians at any given snap shot of time shouldn’t be allowed to change our Constitutional arrangements
      Also given Irelands experience , a one issue one vote referendum, no sneaking stuff in on the down low either.
      Keeping the power to amend or change our Constitution gives us and future Scots the opportunity to ensure that we can pull back any errors and refine our intentions!
      With or despite Holyrood

    269. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry…is a good indicator of a dysfunctional political identity and outlook.

      The Initiative For Contemplation, Equity & Action Journal Vol. 1, No. 1, July 2017
      Social Justice, Inner Work
      & Contemplative Practice

      Lessons & Directions For Multiple Fields

      http://www.contemplativemind.org/files/ICEA_vol1_2017.pdf

    270. stonefree says:

      @ Alec Lomax at 8:53 pm

      What’s with the green ink ?

    271. CameronB Brodie says:

      They call me the Mandalorian. Well, some do. Actually, nobody does, tbh. 🙂

      What is a Constitution? Principles and Concepts
      International IDEA Constitution-Building Primer 1

      https://www.idea.int/sites/default/files/publications/what-is-a-constitution-primer.pdf

    272. ben madigan says:

      with regards to Scotland’s future constitution – one example of how to go about it comes from Italy in 1949 after it voted to be a republic rather than a monarchy in a referendum

      a Constituent Assembly was set up with male and female representatives from all over the country and all walks of life. Backed up by a panel of constitutional lawyers to make sure everything is legal and in line with international laws, they discussed and wrote up a Constitution which Italians still warmly uphold and do not wish to change 70 years later.

    273. Robert Graham says:

      A good comment by someone up stream park the I hate the FM and the SNP pish for the time being , give them one last chance to come up with the goods , then by all means let rip if they haven’t , to much energy is being wasted fighting the wrong enemy ,

    274. robertknight says:

      Come January, when we’re on the outside of Europe looking in and legislation kicks in to permanently remove those powers from Holyrood concerning agriculture, fisheries and food, will Empress Nera be fiddling while Rome burns? Or will all us doubting Thomases be proven wrong? Place your bets…

    275. kapelmeister says:

      stonefree @8:36 pm

      It would be a reasonable guess then that the Sturrells (see what I did there?) get around £6 000 a week. How can a wife & husband team earning that much and enjoying power in their jobs be in the right psychological states to properly lead a country to its independence?

    276. Beaker says:

      @Lizg says:
      4 September, 2020 at 10:21 pm
      “We do need to be very vigilant that after the Yes Vote is in and before our Constitution is adopted that people don’t switch off, and leave it”

      What is needed is absolute clarity BEFORE a Yes vote. People quickly get pissed off with vote after vote after vote. They need to know what they are getting.

      This is what is still splitting the vote, and holding back any surge for a Yes. There is no clear message as to what direction an independent Scotland will take. Saying “oh we’ll sort things out after independence” is a poor argument.

      Remember that we have to deal with the clusterfuck that is Brexit. That will make people nervous. No use talking about “sacrifices” either. A lot of people have already been hammered by COVID, are about to shafted by Brexit, so they will need something tangible and achievable to latch on to.

      Political soundbites won’t do.

    277. Beaker says:

      Apologies for capitals. I haven’t figured out how to use italics yet 🙂

    278. leither says:

      love yer posts cameron

    279. susanXX says:

      I say any constitution needs to build itself on clearly biological principles to nullify any potential genderwoowoo colonization. Also any subsequent attempts to change it should go to a referendum.

      Btw some great comments tonight.

    280. Lizg says:

      Susan XX @ 12.15
      I think you’ll need to settle yer self that that’s no going to happen Susan.
      Unless the dam breaks internationally around the “gender woo woo” stuff the people directing our Constitution are going to leave it at the very least ambiguous, or if they can manage woven deeply into Scottish Citizens rights.
      This….but not only this, is why I’m sayin the power to make Constitutional change should be held ultimately by the people and not a two thirds majority in Holyrood.
      Having said that we have to be very careful about things like Capital Punishment as one horrendous murder case could see it brought back ( especially if our southern neighbours have already drunk that particular cool aid )because while we need to curb the politicians we can’t ignore the big problem with democracy being that it assumes 99 idiots make a better decision than 1 well informed person. And I don’t want to be dependent on the EU to ensure my government won’t have the right to kill Scottish citizens…..That’s what our Constitution should be doing regardless …

    281. Lizg says:

      Beaker @ 11.56
      I’d have said that encouraging people to imagine,contribute and take part in the Constitution process could be and should be held to be one of the greatest things they’ve ever done in their lives.
      The US and it’s misty eyed portrayal of it’s own Constitution has done some of the work for us.
      Presented as an endeavour and not a chore would be half the battle to unite everyone!
      Set them buzzing about everything we could do, such as Picking a National Anthem, How do we deal with a Broadcaster are we giving the Media special rights and freedoms or not….all stuff to get the conversation going and all stuff we had no say in before .
      Present it before the Yes vote of course but we should be clear a Yes vote is the price of those kind of choices.
      Our main issue will be Holyrood,the Religions and “civic Scotland doing what you’ve just done and presented it all as a task we really don’t want to be bothered with…..that’s when they’ll jump in and take care of it for us

    282. CameronB Brodie says:

      leither
      It works both ways. I’m trying to help Scotland towards a path away from abusive constitutional jurisprudence. National law can not be legally imposed as a means of removing internationally recognised rights (see our EU Fundamental Rights). The common law only retains moral force if it remains universal. Posting this stuff gives me a feeling of contributing to the common good, which is helpful in countering my PTSD and depression. Win, win. 🙂

      FUNDAMENTAL SOCIAL RIGHTS IN EUROPE
      Social Affairs Series, SOCI 104 EN – 02/2000

      2.15. United Kingdom

      To understand how fundamental rights are protected in the United Kingdom’s legal system, it must first be remembered that Britain has no written constitution in the form of a comprehensive document and that there is no list of fundamental rights. Instead, various texts, such as the Magna Carta of 1215, the Petition of Rights of 1627, the Act of Habeas Corpus of 1679 and the Bill of Rights of 1689 form a kind of ‘constitution’.

      In principle, however, there is no formal distinction between constitutional law and ordinary law, owing to the fact that it is not the people but parliament that is the sovereign power. Its laws cannot therefore be unconstitutional and must be applied by the courts. Nor is there a system of constitutional courts to enable acts of the public authorities to be examined for their constitutionality [91].

      Instead, it is for the judges in ordinary courts of law to interpret the acts of parliament and to develop law in the form of common law. The individual’s fundamental rights must therefore be deduced from ordinary acts of parliament and from common law. This is made particularly difficult by the fact that parliament does not as a general rule formulate any positive rights along the lines of ‘Everyone shall have the right to …’, but that the various spheres are covered by detailed rules from which the protection of fundamental rights can be deduced. In simple terms, this means that the individual has any right as long as it is not explicitly restricted [92].

      This concept results in civil rights and liberties playing a major role, whereas fundamental social rights in the sense of participatory rights have not yet, by and large, been recognised in British jurisprudence. Fundamental rights are here equated with freedom from the State. Gaining freedom and security as fundamental rights with the help of the State is inconceivable for most British lawyers [93].

      British lawyers point out in particular that extending fundamental rights to include fundamental social rights would mean sacrificing individual freedoms and that there is no point in putting rights that are not for the most part directly enforceable but represent policy clauses on a par with traditional civil rights and liberties. This would simply dilute the idea of fundamental rights [94].

      A right to work, for example, is recognised only insofar as the individual has a right to practise his chosen occupation without being unjustifiably excluded from it [95].

      A constitutional right to social security does not exist in the United Kingdom. Despite this, there are, of course, various social benefits comparable with those in other Member States and a national health service to which everyone has free access [96].

      There is also an individual right to enjoy these social benefits in accordance with the provisions of law. This is not, however, a constitutional right. Disputes with the administration can be referred to ‘administrative tribunals’. Appeals may then be lodged with the ‘social security commissioners’ [97]. In contrast, the ordinary courts and common law play virtually no part in the protection of social rights, since the courts have generally refused to develop social rights [98].

      https://www.europarl.europa.eu/workingpapers/soci/104/part3_en.htm

    283. CameronB Brodie says:

      OK, that’s a pre-Supreme Court picture of the British legal order, but I’ve still to see evidence that the British judicial system is compatible with international law. Anyway, Parliment is sovereign, so is impervious to outside law. Just eat your porridge and be grateful.

    284. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, non-porous rather than impervious. Outside law does affect our judicial system, but only if enabled to do so by Parliament.

    285. Stu hutch says:

      Looks like george galloways wee party has taken over wings.

    286. leither says:

      simpering with joy 🙂

    287. Stan Broadwood says:

      I have cancelled my SNP membership and will not be voting SNP at the Holyrood elections next year if Sturgeon doesn’t start putting indyRef2 ahead of her other demented policies.

      I do hope the little Dreghorn Dictator stands down long before May 2021.

    288. CameronB Brodie says:

      Westminster apparently does not consider those living in Scotland to be eligible to legal protection through the common law. But neither do Scotland’s courts, which is a serious source of concern. To say the least.

      International Journal of Constitutional Law, Volume 7, Issue 2, April 2009, Pages 183–214
      Common law declarations of unconstitutionality

      Abstract

      This article proposes that British courts have an inherent power to issue nonbinding, common law “declarations of unconstitutionality” when Parliament legislates against constitutional norms. Courts have already recognized higher-order principles as part of an emerging constitutional jurisprudence and will interpret statutes to be compatible with them absent Parliament’s clear, contrary intent.

      When this interpretive process leads to a constitutional conflict (that is, where higher-order principles and statute are irreconcilable), courts then necessarily decide that Parliament has acted unconstitutionally. The logical next step is for a court simply to make a formal declaration to that effect. Thus, the common law declaration is available not only where Parliament violates common law rights but also the conventions and fundamental statutes that regulate democratic, decision-making processes.

      The courts’ current interpretive approach inexorably leads to this proposed remedy; this article rests on the premise that further theoretical inquiry into the nature of the British Constitution, parliamentary sovereignty, or the foundations of judicial review is, at this point, not only unnecessary but perhaps even unhelpful, to legal practitioners.

      https://academic.oup.com/icon/article/7/2/183/758666

    289. Beaker says:

      @Lizg says:
      5 September, 2020 at 12:54 am
      Beaker @ 11.56
      “I’d have said that encouraging people to imagine,contribute and take part in the Constitution process could be and should be held to be one of the greatest things they’ve ever done in their lives.”

      I read a passage in one of David Gemmell’s novels which I think sums up the current state of the SNP.

      To paraphrase it – the SNP used to be a lean political machine like barbarians fighting for survival. They grew in size and have now become fat and lazy with the gifts of power. At present, there is no barbarian horde (ie effective opposition) to trouble them so they remain lazy, experimenting with legislation that twenty years ago would have been booted out of the park.

      That is why they are unsettled about a List party. It is the only real potential threat to them. For the moment anyway.

    290. James Barr Gardner says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      4 September, 2020 at 4:31 pm

      Clerkin in my opinion has been pigeon holed by the police and Scottish government as the wrong type of independence supporter, ie, an active one.

      Sean was arrested the day after protesting outside of Barlinnie Prison in regard to the incarceration Manny Singh.

      Purely coincidental ?

    291. Willie says:

      And so in a dawn raid on Friday morning Police Scotland arrested 59 year old Sean Clerkin at his Barhead Home and took him into custody where he was charged for breaching the peace at Edinburgh Airport on the 20th of August 2020 when he displayed a banner declaring “ England Get Out of Scotland.”

      He was also charged with infringement of a By Law for 5h3 unauthorised displaying of a banner.

      The gloves are now and well and truly off where the Police Scotland are being deployed as a para military force to suppress democratic expression. And meanwhile it seems there were further arrests and Police intervention against demonstrators who attempted to protest outside Barlinnie Prison where Manny Singh is incarcerated for organising the last big 100k AOUB march is Glasgow.

      With Police Scotland now an instrument of political physical force we should all be very afraid of the dark forces now in play.

    292. Dorothy Devine says:

      So who is authorising these arrests?

      Do the police want to damage their reputation by implementing dodgy court orders? Every march I have ever been on they have been helpful and amiable.

      As for peaceful ( an assumption) demonstration surely they are not implementing a ‘covid 19 ‘ law against the demonstrators?

    293. Davd Caledonia says:

      Dorothy Devine

      The police have to keep order, its not political to arrest someone like that, he will get a small fine, and hopefully he will have learned his lesson the hard way
      And btw, an airport is a business , and no business wants that kind of thing on their property
      Imagine if Tesco stood back and let someone hold a banner up saying Tesco agrees with killing animals because they sold meat, Police please

      Have a nice day

    294. Dave M says:

      Clerkin is not ‘a bit radical’. He is exactly the kind of person whose conduct fits the behavioural profile that the MSM wants its consumers to see when thinking of independence supporters. His behaviour is counterproductive and narcissistic.

      Protesting a prison sentence THAT SINGH CHOSE TO SERVE rather than alter his working hours on a short-term basis, is utterly ridiculous. All Clerkin is doing there, is raising his own profile in the Record and the Sun. He’s not adding anything of value to the debate. He’s a blawhard, nothing more.

    295. Andy Ellis says:

      @Lizg 10.21pm

      I’ve never thought a small country like Scotland really needed a second chamber: the Danes for example abolished theirs not that long ago. I’d be more in favour of ensuring both a strong and effective committee system twinned with devolution of more power to the regions.

      As per your later comment, discussing and choosing between various models and alternatives should be being presented as one of the pluses of independence and something to look forward to. It’s not difficult to construct a narrative aimed at enthusing folk about the possibilities and opportunities, rather than getting mired (as I’d argue the party and broader movement is) discussing the problems and difficulties of doing it.

      One of the problems of the Yes campaign, for all its upsides, has never really been addressed: we never really laid a glove on Project Fear’s main planks during that campaign. It concentrated on relentless, happy-clappy positivity in the belief that would offset the negativity of the yoons central arguments. We are still to a large extent replicating those errors: the Growth Commission, failing to address the currency issue, constantly responding to the “Black Hole” fallacy: it’s all very reactive, not setting out the stall of how we do things differently and explaining just how bad a deal we currently get.

      If we want to live in a new nation, we have to start working as though we already live in the early days of a better nation as a wise man once said.

    296. Polly says:

      I agree with Dave M about Clerkin and Manni, and with Dorothy Devine about the police during marches. I’m also concerned that the police and courts are now beginning to be seen as enemies rather than working for Scotland’s benefit. That’s a bad road to go down. I know some judgements recently have been controversial but please don’t see the entire police and justice system as our enemy, they are not. Bad actors may exploit loopholes, yes, and I believe have done but to label the entire system and everyone within it as being against us is counter productive. One of the things we need to remember that worked for Catalonia is their own local police and fire brigade and lawyers stood with them. That’s what we need to aim for, get as many of our citizens to stand with us as possible – we don’t do that by blaming them for bad decisions taken by some of our own – and is Clerkin really one of our own? He’s a complete fringe entity within independence and not someone to emulate normally. If you want to make hero’s look to Catalonia police chief Josep Lluis Trapero, that’s what a hero looks like, not some low level twerp like Clerkin.

      @ Andy Ellis

      ‘relentless, happy-clappy positivity in the belief that would offset the negativity of the yoons central argument’

      Also agree very much with this.

    297. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Andy Ellis

      My problem with that maxim, is that the term “better nation” is subjective and the people who are gaining an ever tightening grip on the tiller of our ship of state, have a rather narrow view of what they would present to us as Utopia. one which is as likely to lead to a post independence civil war as it is to Nirvana. I also suspect that some of them agree with me but for their own nefarious reasons are not letting their dupes in on the secret.

    298. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “So what is your prediction: will Scotland be independent within the next ten years?”

      It depends on who’s leading the SNP. If it’s Nicola Sturgeon, no.

    299. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Clerkin is not ‘a bit radical’. He is exactly the kind of person whose conduct fits the behavioural profile that the MSM wants its consumers to see when thinking of independence supporters. His behaviour is counterproductive and narcissistic.

      Protesting a prison sentence THAT SINGH CHOSE TO SERVE rather than alter his working hours on a short-term basis, is utterly ridiculous. All Clerkin is doing there, is raising his own profile in the Record and the Sun. He’s not adding anything of value to the debate. He’s a blawhard, nothing more.”

      100% this.

    300. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Col Blimp

      I think the reason Alasdair Gray’s aphorism resonates is that it does encapsulate what very many people in the movement yearn for which they feel isn’t being adequately articulated (or even articulated at all?) by the current SNP leadership.

      The fact that the movement has, for a variety of reasons some of them good and some of them not, put all its eggs in one political basket with the SNP can’t really be helped at this stage. With the benefit of hindsight it *might* have been better for there to have been an over-arching organisation, but there again having more parties, civic organisations like Omnium, and Committees for the Defence of the Republic hasn’t worked for our Catalan friends.

      I admit I have an axe to grind: I no longer trust the SNP, nor do I really want to see them in power (or more exactly in a dominant position) post independence. Ensuring that they can’t exercise such dominance is something those of us who disagree with them on particular policies and their general economic, social and geo-political stances have to start working on. Not doing so risks seeing a post independence Scotland looking not all that different to pre independence Scotland.

      Making our decisions and choices is still a powerful motivator, but if the outcome is Andrew Wilson’s stodgy, grey-suited managerialist Growth Commission vision and/or the dystopian nightmare of the gender-woo zealots and Twitler Youth who have eaten the party from within, the case is that much harder to make.

      SNP loyalists are never going to listen of course, but in the end it avails the movement nothing if they bend over backwards to win over the last few percentage points of “soft No/Remain” voters, while alienating a similar number of people who want something different.

    301. CameronB Brodie says:

      The media machine is definitely against us. Sky news has some dickhead on right now, telling the world Scotland couldn’t have coped with covid-19, as we are an economic basket case.

      This is simply institutional racism at work.

    302. stonefree says:

      kapelmeister says:
      4 September, 2020 at 11:40 pm

      stonefree @8:36 pm

      It’s not the £6K a week, to an extent, but That was the money paid by supporters to fund a process,the files** that were published on the site show that there are NO big donars, the Weirs stopped funding , and they gave £3.5 million in 2014, the late Colin Weir questioned ,after 2014 where the money was spent, The SNP won’t get back Brian Soutar with wokest policies.
      I question where the money that was paid into Yes.Scot for a referendum , the total was listed on the Yes site , but it’s been gone for months, That was ordinary peoples money that seem to have vanished. Where?
      I noticed on the Donors section ( the files**) one former MP had made large donations( large in the context of ordinary folk) but there are within the party a lot of Bono(s)..Just saying



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