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Wings Over Scotland

The other shoe drops

Posted on August 10, 2020 by

Ah, so NOW we know why the SNP’s woke junior league stitched up the NEC to stop serious, talented and experienced politicians like Joanna Cherry and Philippa Whitford standing as MSPs in next year’s Holyrood election.

Who could ever have guessed, etc?

You CAN probably guess what sort of people they are, though – the standard-issue hyper-intolerant piously quasi-fascist Twitler Youth trooper that dominates the party’s younger faction and wants all dissenting voices not just disagreed with or debated but silenced and shut down completely.

On the one level, of course, we can’t blame the party’s ambitious males for trying to carve out some sort of career opening – the SNP already hold the vast majority of Scottish constituencies (59/73), and the party’s rules are that if an incumbent SNP MSP stands down they should be replaced by an all-female shortlist, so there are only a tiny handful of seats where anyone with a penis has a hope of being elected for the party unless they pop a frock and a bit of lipstick on.

But still, we can’t help but think – given the selection process isn’t even officially under way yet – that it might have looked just a bit less crooked if they’d waited until the stushie over the dodgy meeting was over before announcing their intentions.

Because while the “unconstitutional” vote barring James Dornan and mandating a female replacement has now been overturned, there’s still been no word from the SNP’s national secretary Angus MacLeod about whether the rest of the controversial and questionable decisions from the NEC meeting will be allowed to stand.

But it was enlightening to find out what sort of people backed MacLeod for election to the key post which controls the whole party’s direction.

We think “He knows the rulebook inside out” is our favourite.

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  1. 10 08 20 14:57

    The other shoe drops | speymouth

184 to “The other shoe drops”

  1. Newburghgowfer says:

    The Party I voted for since 1982 have more (Warwick Hunts) than the Labour Party had for over 70 years in Scotland. Somebody should get on the Bell to the Guiness Book of Records! This lot are going to take some shifting if People think they are going to lead us to Indy ?

  2. Peter says:

    Alex Kerr and his girlfriend spent their Sunday bombarding Eastwood SNP folk with Facebook friend requests and follows on twitter. Anyone following back or accepting on Facebook then got a private message asking for a ‘chat’ on the phone.
    Now of course, maybe he has simply messaged everyone who follows Eastwood SNP or maybe he has a list from someone to identify them.
    Its certainly an interesting tactic when vetting for other candidates is still suspended. He is creating a narrative that he is already the frontrunner.
    I am in all the WhatsApp and Facebook groups for Eastwood SNP folk and not a single one of them want Kerr here , but we are concerned that there’s a stitch up on the horizon.

  3. Dan Watt says:

    Not your fault Stu, but for what feels like the longest time, reading this blog seems to only make me mad. It used to make me feel hope for the cause. Ripping apart lazy unionist “journalism” was also very good reading. What happened to those days. What happened to the SNP?

  4. Bob Mack says:

    This fills you with confidence?

    It’s become a monopoly. On jobs for the boys.

  5. Astonished says:

    The woke are the most divisive, self serving bunch in the SNP. More and more folk are waking up to their narcissism and self-promotion.

    I hope there is another possible candidate.

    Do you think the Yoon TV will point out his woke credentials before the selection process ? Me ,neither.

  6. John H. says:

    Dan Watt says: 1.05pm.

    Nicola Sturgeon took over.

  7. defo says:

    I knew the happy clappy, whae’s like us schtick wouldn’t end well, but this?
    Right in yer face, ‘whatya gonna do?’.

    Time to bring the SNP to heel.

    Dross for FM

  8. Gavin Lundy seems a strange choice for Ayr, especially since he promotes the waste of around 1m second votes while our ex MP from SNP actively backs Alliance for Independence.

    I can’t see him winning anything here in a Tory strong hold with inclusion politics. The reason Tories win is the wealthy ones in South Ayr turnout in the 70%s where working class North Ayr are lucky to see 30%. Working class people his age around here see the left as transsexuals.

    Enjoyed parts of his one article in The National calling out people for calling undecideds “Yoons” although he never went on to point out the disablism in the term, coined by none other than Pete Wishart.

  9. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Not your fault Stu, but for what feels like the longest time, reading this blog seems to only make me mad.”

    Believe me, I feel your pain, man. I hate every article I have to write bashing the SNP instead of Unionists, it’s no fun at all, but this site exists to fight the opponents of independence wherever they are, and right now it’s in far more danger from the SNP than it is from the pathetic rabble of Unionist parties and media.

  10. Effijy says:

    Disgraceful from a party that has put themselves before country
    and lost all meaningful direction that will serve the majority of the

    I’m stuck with this crumbling party as our most likely means
    Of achieving independence but once it arrives I think most of
    Them know they will be dropped like a ton of bricks.

    An independent Scotland would benefit from having local independent
    MP’s who vote on what is good for their constituencies and not what
    Any party whip demands you vote for.

  11. P says:

    Cheers Stu ??

  12. defo says:

    How right you are.
    Party politics is the enemy of democracy.
    2 party politics is Hobsons choice.
    1 party(effectively) is the high road to hell, as we see.

  13. Teetering says:

    Interestingly, the new SNP rules as published on their website do not require MPs to stand down if selected. Makes it easy to drop it quietly later.

  14. Helen Yates says:

    What sort of people would vote for this shambles?

  15. Bob Mack says:

    @Rev Stu,

    I think it would be beneficial for you and your readers if you could do an article on exactly why you now feel the way you do.

    I know you have insight and information from within the party and I would summise you are greatly frustrated at what has happened to a great movement.

    People think you are bashing the SNP just at the wrong time,
    and that you are now a danger to Indy.

    I know that never is, was, or could be true. In my eyes you are a giant of the Indy movement.I could probably never endure what you have most likely been through to make Scotland free again.

  16. schrodingers cat says:

    cant see whats wrong with people putting themselves forward as PPC’s.

    however, if existing Mps were to come forward as PPC’s for holyrood, it would be a real boost to constituencies who dont have indy msps but unionist msps. lets face it, if you were in eastwoon snp branch, who would you chose, eg dr philipa whitford or alex kerr?

    a bit of a no brainer.

    also, if we do win big eg, 50%+ and bojo says no, then i think it would be time for mps to walk out of wm and come home.

    whats the point in us campaigning to get a new candidate elected for vacated snp mps seats when their first job wont be a maiden speech but to walk out of wm?

    and if bojo does say yes, they will be walking out anyway?

  17. Milady says:

    Eastwood has local people, already well known in the community, looking to stand. Who the fuck is Alex Kerr? Doesn’t know us, we don’t know him. If the SNP force him, and his pals, on constituency parties across the country they can wave cheerio to the canvassers and door knockers who they will have utterly betrayed. Hell mend them.

  18. Almond Chutney says:

    Correct me if I am wrong (or apologies for stating the obvious), but wouldn’t somebody as prestigious within the SNP be the preferable candidate (if JC wished to do so) for Edinburgh Central in the 2021 Holyrood elections?

    I mean, the SNP have assumed that it is already theirs, and the popularity of somebody like JC would gain the vote more so than some rising hopeful still clinging to their adolescent naivety.

    Edinburgh Central seems like gaining a tactical seat to help spread further the policies of the SNP. I just really want someone to explain to me the logic of the alternative?

  19. liz says:

    The SNP are rapidly becoming unelectable.

    I was going to post this on the previous thread but it’s still relevant here.

  20. Big Jock says:

    Bob I agree – Stu is the only one that might actually re-ignite the fire of independence. Right now it’s in danger of become a dead ember.

    It’s no wonder the SNP hierarchy don’t like him. He is exposing their charade. Nicola saying she will be there for another 5 years is like a nail in the coffin of the indy movement.

    She is disingenuous. It’s the Nicola show. It’s all about her legacy and her ego. I am not saying she was always like this. But power does things to people. It makes them fearful , protective and distant.

    Nicola never appearing at the indy marches, was a calculated PR stunt. She appeared at many anti Brexit marches. Kissed Alistair Campbell at one. Yet she wants to distance herself from her own people?

    Read into it what you will, but the above alone convinces me she is not the genuine article anymore.

    She is the manager of devolution, not the leader of revolution.

    Independence can never happen while she is in charge. People have to face reality.

  21. Almond Chutney says:

    Big Jock says:

    ‘She is the manager of devolution, not the leader of revolution.’

    This, that is all – she was elected to be the manager of devolution, not the leader of revolution.

  22. Big Jock says:

    Also does anyone seriously doubt that Jo Cherry is intellectually superior to Nicola? I think that might be the very reason Nicola fears her. When you fear someone you avoid debating with them. and at worst try and eliminate them.

  23. Big Jock says:

    Almond – The leader of the SNP’s job is to move Scotland to independence. She is not the Labour First Minister. Remember the SNP only reluctantly agreed to devolution as a stepping stone to independence.

  24. Beaker says:

    Lundy – I’d like to hear his views on Alyn Smith’s internal email and Mhair Black describing her constituents as “Jeremy Hunts” in reaction to her bringing a drag artist called Flowjob into a primary school. After all, he sits on the Members Conduct Committee.

    I see Nicola is apologising for the SQA fuckup. The only reason for that is the genuine threat of the no confidence vote. Wonder what wee Patrick is getting to stay on board, although he’s committed to supporting the opposition. Expect fireworks if he decides to support Swinney.

  25. Almond Chutney says:

    Big Jock – True, but the leader of the devolution government also has to uphold constitution. It seems fair game is not enough at this point, dirty tricks handed out by the Westminster Government need to be reciprocated, but almost impossible for NS in her current position to break the rules to favour indy

  26. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Looks like the future “baby” could be another Greer, green behind the ears.

    Stand him on a stage with Joanna C and it’l be a massacre of the innocents.

    As for national secretary Angus MacLeod, it’s looking more and more like he’s gonna be the next follow on FM from NS. It’s him who’s pushing the agenda in the background, steering the party with the band of twitler helpers, wokists and anyone looking for a ministers job.

    The SNP of the future won’t be anything like that of AS, JC, Dr. W, and more who turned the party from a fringe circle into the election winning blockbuster that we had until recently.

    For those seeking independence the moment is rapidly approaching where decisions will have to be made.

    Stay and turn into a soggy version of the Libdems or stand up an’ fight.

  27. Beaker says:

    @liz says:
    10 August, 2020 at 1:47 pm
    “The SNP are rapidly becoming unelectable.”

    Reading Twitter some of the SNP politicians are quite capable of reaching that goal without any additional help.

  28. Kenny says:

    Peter @1:05;
    “..but we are concerned that there’s a stitch up on the horizon.”

    I’m concerned about the many stitch-ups now.

    What a rotten, ugly party the SNP have become, yes there are decent MPs & MSPs, but they’re impotent unless they actually act.
    When we’re now at a place where we clearly see the rotten apples in the barrel of brazen shite, then unionists, Orangemen and 77th needn’t waste their time trying to divide us when the enemy is within.

    The minute they started the process of stitching-up the former First Minister was the beginning of the public decay, couldn’t even carry that through, let-alone free a country, the rank amateurs.
    I’m sure many SNP brass read this blog, perhaps secretly, but know this; we’re onto you now, and I personally am at the stage where I’ll refuse to give you charlatans my 1st vote, any vote. No blaming Westminster this time – the corrupt and the clowns started this.

  29. deerhill says:

    My initial reaction was “Oh S***!”
    I’m an Eastwood voter and was looking forward to waveing Carlot goodbye.

    If this effort is a candidate, that’s two people I can’t vote for. Lets hope there is an alternative in the list vote!

    “He knows the rulebook inside out”
    Not a recommendation in my experience.

  30. Big Jock says:

    Imagine if the Covid Crisis hadn’t come along?

    We don’t have too,we would be having the very same debate about what Nicola was doing about indy ref 2. Do not doubt for a minute that she would be doing exactly the same. The waiting game! Nicola is very good at waiting.

    Covid – 19 just meant she had an excuse for waiting , rather than trying to find one.

    Just wait until 2021 , things will be different…she can keep us waiting until April 2026!

  31. A Person says:

    Used to work in Eastwood, it’s a funny seat (wasn’t very keen on the vibe personally). I really don’t think some wide-eyed woke enthusiast from Head Office is going to go down well with the blue-rinse ladies or the drivers of white BMWs. So the question is, why select him?

  32. jfngw says:


    Trying to read between the lines my guess is they are going to review/re-assess the downgraded results without needing to appeal, in the most deprived area schools at least. They can’t just give the results without some comparison the prelims and prediction marking are of the same standard, otherwise that would just be practically unregulated handing out of exam results.

    Everything has consequences though, if they boost those that wouldn’t have passed and they perform badly at university, these universities will look with scepticism on the quality of Scottish education qualifications next year.

  33. jfngw says:

    I’m trying to work out what the plan is here as I understand many are pissed off with the SNP.

    So we’ve thrown out the SNP and got rid of NS, what happens next?

  34. orri says:

    I think the NEC, or the woke at least, think people will simply forget this stunt. The reason the rule won’t be on the website is that it isn’t a rule until either Council or Conference adopt it.

    Interestingly the NEC is a part of both of those. Also interestingly is the Smith “leak”, should he have his way, would not just see woke votes of the NEC but also 18 regional reps. Depending on how they’ve voted and when the proposed shake up takes place that might actually swing things in his desired direction.

    Regardless. Given the outrage by SNP members and the further outrage at his proposed balancing, that “rule” is probably never going to be enacted.

    Also. The only evidence that the NEC were asked by the SNP membership to come up with anything like that rule was a conference for them to consider the implications of dual mandates. That does not give them carte blanche to simply outlaw them entirely or if they do to adopt an insane and potentially damaging policy of giving up a seat prior to an election in order to achieve something that they can’t actually deliver.

    For a party that is in a situation where an overall majority in Holyrood is the current target the unionists insist on setting any blanket rule that stops the candidate best placed to win a seat regardless of unionist opposition would, if they were serious, be ditched as soon as it was no longer useful.

    I suppose there’s a hair splitting going on that means the NEC can claim it’s simply a ruling and as they have control over whether candidates are accepted for selection, although that seems only to extend to the vetting period, then it’s a fair warning.

    Another peculiarity of the SNP vetting process. Seems as though the NEC can only suggest candidates, impose them, on a local branch if there’s only one candidate put forward by said branch. In other words put forward two or more prospects and no parachuted favourites can be landed on you.

  35. defo says:

    The list frees all.

    The seats have long been dished out, and alternative indy candidates are queering their pitch, hence the hostility to fellow travellers.

  36. Confused says:

    thanks again rev, for swimming in this sewer, so most of us don’t have to.

    saw apocalypse now “final cut” the other night … kurtz, mad, up the jungle is broadcasting on the short wave (the social media of its time), he rants

    “they train young men to drop fire on people … but wont let them write FUCK on the side of their airplanes …

    – kurtz, in his madness, is saner than the rational men who desire to kill him.

    “they convince the impressionable minds to CUT THEIR PENISES off … but BAN from twitter, any who questions whether this is a good idea …

    call them what you want, far left, fake left, pseudo left, identity politics “social justice warriors”, “bourgeois leftists” – are absolute fucking scum, the worst, because they, wittingly or not, act in the interests of their supposed enemies – they destroy everything, “proper socialism” and now, almost, on the cusp, actual nationalism; everything is based on a masquerade, a deep hypocrisy (- the leftwing of neoliberalism, the left hand of the empire)
    – TL;DR – sometimes brown people count, sometimes, they don’t.

    The pseudo left doesn’t want to change the system, it just wants a nice slot in it – if the bombers are dropping napalm on the brown peoples, it is permissible, as long as the pilots are : gender balanced, with “people of color” represented and positive about gender … have an investors in people badge while you’re at it – slap yersel on the back while the fuel air explosive rips people apart …

  37. Big Jock says:

    Jfngw – Who mentioned throwing out the SNP?

    We just need a new leader. It’s perfectly rational to want change within an organisation. There seems to be an assumption that you are a loony or a fundamentalist , if you don’t like the leader of the SNP. This is something that many of the execs in the SNP like to peddle.

    Change is normal…when change is required. A refusal to acknowledge a problem, is a head in the sand approach. Sure it means you can hide the problem under the recesses of your mind. But it will not go away unless you confront it.

    I don’t think there is anyone out there that seriously thinks Nicola is going to lead us to independence in the next 3 years, or ever. She is can kicking. She is the Jam Tomorrow politician.

    We cannot escape it. Personally I think she is going to run down the clock. Stay for another 3 years, and then bugger off when independence is no closer. Then the next leader will have to try and do a salvage job.

    I would rather not have another 3 wasted years.

  38. A Person says:


    Not sure what you mean? I just think Kerr might go down badly in Eastwood.

  39. defo says:

    He’ll get a shot at a tricky seat, all the whilst knowing he’s high on the list.

  40. Robert Graham says:

    Totally o/t nope no apologies

    Tory MPs are keeping up the good work protecting dear old Blighty , They are demanding no insisting tougher draconian action be taken to stop the invasion of these people ,it doesn’t matter who they are or what perilous circumstances they are attempting to keep themselves safe that doesn’t matter it’s these people .

    The Daily Express or was it the Mail it doesn’t really matter both are the same anyway they made the same demands in the 1930 s when Jewish refugees were attempted to flee nazi Germany again these people were not wanted in Dear old compassionate Blighty I guess the parents of these Tory MPs agreed with the sentiments expressed

    The present Home Secretary’s family would have been refused entry if Enoch Powel had been able to force and convince the government of the day they did not qualify for entry into Blighty,

    Nothing changes with the country to the south of our border , they can never be trusted how many times do they need to prove that they can’t be trusted in any agreement entered into , That’s why the Sun never set on the English Empire even God wouldn’t trust the bar Stuart’s in the dark .

  41. schrodingers cat says:


    being high or even no1 on the list in this region pretty much ensures he wont get elected

    2016, snp list msps = 0

  42. Bob Mack says:

    @Big Jock,

    Correct. Nobody wants to throw out the SNP. What we want to throw out are the parasites feeding off it and those who let that happen

    Big difference.

    I loved watching Attenborough and I remember some form of parasite fungus that took over the insect host and made it do what the fungus wanted. That is the SNP just now. Occupied.

  43. defo says:

    Cheers guys
    I stand corrected.
    Does that still apply if the SNP fail to take Eastwood & maybe 1 other constituency in the region?

  44. F Mooney says:

    Is the last pic Jimmy Carr, just doing it for a laugh? Who knew.

  45. kapelmeister says:

    We at Wings don’t like to discourage the young folks from getting involved in politics.

    There was Pitt the Younger who entered parliament at an exceptionally youthful age.

    But Gavin Lundy MSP would be (The) Pits the Younger.

  46. Patsy says:

    @Bob Mack, With you there. Your use of the word parasites sums it up perfectly.

  47. jfngw says:

    @Big Jock

    How do you get one without the other, if the SNP wins NS stays unless she is deposed by the party. All these people will have campaigned on the same manifesto, what are they going to raise as the reason. And as next to nobody on this site seems to be a member I’m not sure how this is brought about.

    If she lost her constituency seat that would probably be an unrecoverable position, apart from that I don’t see it happening.

    There is the AS case but these enquiries are usually a whitewash, those on them usually have an eye on what the consequences for themselves could be in the future. There will be a thick document with a lot of recommendations to prevent this occurring in the future (I really am a cynic).

    Your best hope is a juicy offer elsewhere is of more interest.

  48. red sunset says:

    Looking at this SQA thing – is John Swinney being set up as the fall guy ?

    He’s one of the last remaining from the olden days. He has loads of experience within the party and at Holyrood. He used to be lauded as one of the best.

    If there is a big U turn on these results, will he be the one that gets all the blame ?

  49. Ian Foulds says:

    Effijy at 1.16

    An independent Scotland would benefit from having local independent
    MP’s who vote on what is good for their constituencies and not what
    Any party whip demands you vote for.


  50. jfngw says:

    @red sunset

    More than likely, and once the the opposition have the head of John the Swinney they will forget about it. Their concern for ‘the students’ is just political games, Ruth Davidson will then celebrate with her dance of the seven veils (not sure I want to see that one though).

  51. Ian Foulds says:

    Rev Stu at 1.16

    but this site exists to fight the opponents of independence wherever they are, and right now it’s in far more danger from the SNP than it is from the pathetic rabble of Unionist parties and media.

    So True ?

  52. stonefree says:

    If I’m correct Lundy Is a member of Ardrossan SNP, the NAC SNP Councillors DON’T vote for the people BUT HAVE to be told what to vote from Edinburgh

    If anyone remembers Sturgeon organised a potential seat for Daddy Sturgeon that went tits up and lost them the majority in the council

  53. Ian Foulds says:

    Bob Mack at 1.27

    Spot on.

  54. Alasdair MacLean says:

    Guys stop f ing whinging get out there and do your bit yes there is an issue but getting involved is the best way to deal with this sort of issues, I used to enjoy visiting this site but it increasingly becoming tiring so again stop whining

  55. Polly says:

    I couldn’t find it in myself to ever vote for any of those individuals after some of the things I’ve read them say on social media. As you say their clique is completely intolerant. They are dismissive, often ageist and misogynistic and show no empathy to others, they hold only to a very narrow agenda. They feel that is acceptable since they stand for the SNP which is so dominant they don’t need to win over too many voters. It’s a horrible way for any potential politician to behave, since they must govern for all once in power and they don’t even try to appeal to all within the same party.

    @ jfngw

    You were right of course that Sturgeon apologised for the exam grades. We both seemed to feel she shouldn’t but that she would. This falls into our argument yesterday about them (or Labour) being harassed by the press. As you said the same thing happened in England and Wales with grades but what will be remembered is she apologised because she alone got it wrong. And it fits in with my argument that had she come out fighting to begin with rather than now apologising she wouldn’t be the one in the wrong. Instead she’s put herself on the back foot by doing this. It is entirely self damage.

  56. Polly says:

    ‘If anyone remembers Sturgeon organised a potential seat for Daddy Sturgeon that went tits up and lost them the majority in the council.’

    Yes, that’s when I first realised Sturgeon lacked something. Her mother was one thing and fine, but seeming to actively promote her father into politics was a very bad look and yet she couldn’t see that.

  57. Ottomanboi says:

    Hope betrayed, abandoned, binned.
    Self-indulgent factionalism may eventually doom the SNP to irrelevance.
    The intellectual and ideological dynamic of Scottish nationalism, political and cultural, must not be doomed with it.

  58. kapelmeister says:

    Alasdair MacLean@4:30

    The problem is an autocratic leader who has independence way way down her list of priorities (if it’s even there at all).

    No amount of grassroots activism or “getting involved” is going to change that.

  59. The Eastwood Branch have a favourite and it is not Mr Kerr.

  60. Ron Maclean says:

    Nicola Sturgeon appears to have prioritised her position as First Minister at the expense of her leadership of the SNP. The First Minister of a subservient Scottish government cannot lead us to independence. It’s time she recognised that and stood down as leader of the SNP. A new leader with the right qualities shouldn’t take long to clear out the drones and put the party back on track.

    Why would we want to disband or damage the SNP? We just need a new leader.

    I would like to thank Rev Stuart Campbell for his hard work, integrity, consistent high standards and for giving me hope.

  61. jfngw says:


    If they want an election (they don’t) they could make any vote of confidence in John Swinney a vote of confidence in the government, education is their number one priority I thought. They can then campaign on independence and mandates this year (I would put this option at 0.0005% of possibility).

  62. Colin Alexander says:

    Stu Campbell

    Well done for shining a light on the Sturgeon / Murrell rot that has consumed the SNP from the head down.

    Scotland’s version of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos have been purging indy supporters and replacing them with supporters of their British colonial woke regime.

  63. Beaker says:

    @jfngw says:
    10 August, 2020 at 4:19 pm
    “More than likely, and once the the opposition have the head of John the Swinney they will forget about it. Their concern for ‘the students’ is just political games”

    If it is political games, then why did Alex Neil come out and criticise? True, he didn’t feel it was a resigning matter but he was sufficiently alarmed, and he is one of the SNP politicians I will listen to.

    Swinney is going under the bus, and it is his own fault. Remember when the SQA fucked up in 2000? Sturgeon demanded Galbraith’s head.

    They are panicking because of next year’s elections. Regardless what happens tomorrow this will probably cost them votes.

  64. Grouser says:

    I hope Eastwood goes with a local candidate who has worked in the constiuency.
    I was told the story of a South Glasgow constituency who had a council candidate parachuted in over the heads of good branch candidates who wanted to stand and who had the support of the branch members. The branch lost some good members over the whole sorry business.
    Ms Spears became the councillor but after that hardly had any contact with the branch or its members. She did turn up for an AGM at which she tried to take over the branch. It was described to me as ‘She walked into a brick wall.’
    So a candidate was imposed on a branch and she obviously had no interest in working within the branch for independence. Eastwood should guard against it happening there.

  65. lawrenceab says:

    @Almond Chutney 1:57 pm 10th

    She didnt have to break rules – at least not in the last wasted 5 years. It’s what she doesn’t do that worries me so much. So many actions that can build the momentum that she just ignores, presumably for fear of upsetting WM.

    She could have initiated a Scottish GERS, properly data researched, to counter the mendacious WM GERS that instead she just swallows as given. Take on Richard Murphy as an advisor, he is brilliant.
    She could have appointed a shadow Minister of Defence and of Foreign Affairs, never mind the reserved powers, just to prepare the procedures and research and build up unofficial contacts.
    She sure as hell could have tested s30 in the courts instead of leaving it to a private individual to crowdfund and even strew obstacles in his path.
    So many small and large actions not taken that together tell a depressing story.

  66. Effijy says:

    Just catching up from this morning.

    I would like to defend the Rev from some of the comments made
    These SNP officials.

    If they can spot any lies or distortions made by the Rev then come on here
    and correct them.

    I’ve learned a great deal more here on this site than I ever did or could on anything the SNP produced.

    I’m constantly frustrated when I hear SNP officials not using the ammunition posted here when
    Attacked by the Unionist media.

    Their instruction should be to check up on this site daily as they will support investigative journalism
    that is to the benefit of Scotland.

    Contribute, Don’t Condemn!

  67. Lochside says:

    I saw this guy’s photo in the National at the weekend and thought Christ another one?…someone with no life experience, a ‘woke’ and also probably doesn’t like the ‘National’ part in the party’s title…just like Nicola apparently.

    Why is the party awash with these sweetie wives ( e.g. ‘young activists…contacted me…feeling ‘threatend’…by who?.housebound pensioners ?)… these spineless tossers?
    Scotland was born fighting…yet we are now led by a collection of morally degenerate self seeking liars. Unless the SNP cleanses itself of these parasites, it really is doomed and us along with it.

    Once we had men such as Jimmy Reid, real working class leaders.
    Women such as Margo Macdonald. Now , we have ‘Daddy Bear’ and Rhiannon Spears leading us….. where? I despair, I really do.

    BTW, the latest grovelling apology from Sturgeon over the SQA…sorry if I missed it…but did they do a dummy run with this algorithmic based system and check the results before launching it? Or was it like all the other fuckups, where they breenged ahead without any proper due dilligence?

  68. Oneliner says:

    The head of the SQA is Fiona Robertson. How often have you seen her name mentioned?
    Is she another Peter Principle civil servant in the Leslie Evans mould?

  69. Lorna Campbell says:

    Red Sunset: yes, I do believe that the Unionists – all of them – are one on this. They want Swinney’s head on a plate. It is purely political. It remains to be seen whether the FM will allow them to have his head on a plate, or any other way. John Swinney is one of the decent chaps in Holyrood – too decent, sometimes – but this is the price you pay for being too decent. All those people you were so nice to start demanding your head. Being nice to the hard core NO voters was the biggest mistake of them all – and there have been plenty of them since 2014. Losing that referendum should have hardened the SG’s resolve to find another route out of this mess that did not involve kow towing to either our resident NO voters or to Westminster and Whitehall. It has always been perfectly feasible.

    Rev: thank you for this website that shines the light on what is wrong.

  70. It’s like anti semitism you tell the truth,you are anti Semetic the Palestinians are being murderd and their land stolen by Israel but to say so is twisted into hatred of the Jews well no it’s not it is the gods truth you are finding the same with your posts on the SNP Stu., you tell it like it is and are condemned by some on here for doing so they don’t see that without the truth nothing is real

  71. Big Jock says:

    For clarification. I have had an unbroken SNP membership since 1989! You can be a critic and be in a party.

    It’s the leadership that is at fault , not the party.

  72. Stuart MacKay says:

    Sunlight is the best disinfectant. The good ship Independence would be on the rocks, driven there by the forces of subterfuge or delusion, if it wasn’t for this site.

    Rev. Campbell I owe you a hearty thanks.

  73. Beaker says:

    @Lorna Campbell says:
    10 August, 2020 at 5:22 pm
    “Red Sunset: yes, I do believe that the Unionists – all of them – are one on this. They want Swinney’s head on a plate. It is purely political.”

    Erm, he is a politician and also a cabinet minister. He determines the policy that the SQA use (it’s in statute) and therefore any decision is a political one. It’s not a unionist conspiracy – it’s all his own work.

    I do feel for Swinney, after Health, Education must be the worst political brief to be given.

    I’d be more worried about internal forces trying to oust him. He doesn’t represent any of the more radical elements within.

  74. susan says:

    @Stuart Mackay: Absolutely! Sunlight IS the best disinfectant. Too much is going on in stealth, under the radar.

  75. red sunset says:

    Beaker says:
    10 August, 2020 at 5:50 pm
    @Lorna Campbell says:
    10 August, 2020 at 5:22 pm
    “Red Sunset: yes, I do believe that the Unionists – all of them – are one on this. They want Swinney’s head on a plate. It is purely political.”

    I’d be more worried about internal forces trying to oust him. He doesn’t represent any of the more radical elements within.”

    Yes, that was my worry. A good seasoned decent person who could be next to be thrown under the bus.

    Who actually made the decision to use those algorithms for the recalibration? Was it Swinney, or was he handed the decision?

  76. Flower of Scotland says:

    @red sunset 4.09

    Yes, that’s exactly what’s happening! There was absolutely no need to apologise for the exam results. The appeals process has hardly started. I know for a fact the SQA were told today that this decision by N Sturgeon is just politics.

  77. liz says:

    John Swinney is a gentleman but he’s under Nicola’s thumb. He presides over education and was responsible for implementing TIE materials into schools.

    TIE materials are inappropriate for young children,.
    I know its essential for them to learn about s-e-x and relationships but these materials are aimed at a much higher age group.

    There have been many complaints about teaching very young primary kids about mas – tur – bation and a,n,a,l s.e.x.

    The fact that Spears thinks they’re great and Fiona Robertson thinks young children should be taught ‘enthusiastic consent’ so as to prevent abuse, shows they haven’t got any moral compass.
    This is expecting the abused to stop the abusers.

  78. liz says:

    John Swinney is a gentleman but I believe he’s under Nicola’s thumb.

    He was responsible for rolling out TIE materials in primary.

    These materials are inappropriate for very young children, but he refuses to listen to complaints from parents

  79. Polly says:

    @ Lorna Campbell

    ‘Being nice to the hard core NO voters was the biggest mistake of them all’

    Very accurate. They, the unionist press, Westminster will never be appeased or brought round. It’s time the party recognised that and started consolidating the ones who do support them.

    @ jfngw

    ‘(I would put this option at 0.0005% of possibility)’

    I’d guess even less.

  80. Gordon says:

    Didn’t you used to be mates with Doug Daniel? I distinctly remember you and him shutting me down years ago for calling the cunt out.

  81. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Juteman & JGedd.

    I’ve just completed the wurky-out for the Glasgow region.


    Quick summary…
    2016 actual result in the regional vote:-
    Labour 4 MSPs
    Tories 2 MSPs
    Greens 1 MSP

    2016, if 25% of SNP regional votes had gone to a Pro-Indy party:-
    Labour – 4 (n/c)
    Greens -1 (n/c)
    Tories – 1 (-1)
    Pro-Indy – 1 (+1)
    And we’ve lost one Tory.

    2016, if 40% of SNP regional votes had gone to a Pro-Indy party:-
    Labour – 3 (-1)
    Pro-Indy – 2 (+2)
    Greens -1 (n/c)
    Tories – 1 (-1)
    And we’ve lost one Tory and 1 Labour.

    What’s the minimum transfer of votes from SNP to Pro-Indy that would have been required in Glasgow to guarantee 1 Pro-indy seat?
    Well, from my figures for 25% transfer, Pro-Indy would have to have garnered around 14% of the SNP vote (rough working) to gain 1 seat – but it would be a close-run thing.

  82. Walter Jones says:

    The Lebonese Government has just resigned en masse.

    How about it Sturgeon???

    If the whole Lebonese Government can resign within a few hours, then surely Sturgeon can pack her bags and take her freak show with her within the next few months.

    With or without dignity,,,I’m not bothered Nicola, just as long as you go.

  83. Mjack says:

    TBH, I hope and think the ISP will provide some balance to the SNP, saying things the SNP dont think they can say aloud but we all know to be possible and true.

  84. jfngw says:


    I presume this was called IERS in its day. It’s the first video that I’m referring to (COUP 53)

  85. @Confused,and OT

    a wee Scottish connection to Kurtz in Apocalypse Now,

    one of the books Kurtz has by his bedside is The Golden Bough by Scottish historian Sir James Frazer,

    The Golden Bough helps you understand the ending of Apocalypse Now,

    it`s to do with an ancient belief/ritual that required a sacrifice to end Winter for Spring to arrive. (Wicker Man,King Arthur,Jesus).

  86. katherine hamilton says:

    “FFS, I can’t win, I’m so tired”
    Nae wonder. However, if this further outing of this mob is you when tired, it’ll do. It’ll do just fine.
    Those SNP members, who know all this, and have felt impotent in the face of it all, will, I have no doubt be taking great heart from your work.
    You have given them the ammo.

    These woke types will be looking to get in on the list. My main hope was that an Indy/List party would get rid of unionists. Now we need it to stop SNP listers too!

    What a stramash as Arthur would have said. (Oldy Aberdeen fans only!).

    Nil Desperandum. You remain the best.

  87. stonefree says:

    @ Polly 4:33 pm
    That’s not the half of it, I watched a rigged hustings at least I believe it was, I was trying to write a book about it, The meeting rooms you can watch the hatred drip down the walls.It was not pleasent was
    The mother was the provost of Irvine.
    Ruth McGuire resigned her seat to give Robin Sturgeon the seat, she didn’t need to do that, the SNP majority would have lasted another 18 months.Despite members questioning the move,and potential failure they carried on following orders

  88. Kenny says:

    TIE is a very creepy thing, mainly because it is being pushed almost solely by politicians who, as I have written here before, have this weird obsession with sex – and not in a good way.

    In Europe, people just get on with sex and it is not a part of their Twitter heading or their politics. But when you return to Scotland and England, you see politicians, like Nicola Sturgeon in particular, who have this strange obsession with sex… and always the marginal, edgy kind. It is as if they are somehow fulfilling themselves in this way because they do not have an outlet in the proper, adult, healthy way. There is something just not right about adults being obsessed with “sex + education + children”. I cannot quite put my finger on it, as I am not a psychologist. But the Derek Mackay thing seems like a microcosm of these creepy politicians.

    Why not make all kids learn economics? I always think that is missing in our schools. Especially where money comes from.

  89. jfngw says:

    One thing all Scottish football fans can agree on is this, Scottish Referees are shit, the worst on the planet and @Douglas4Moray isn’t even good enough to be one of them, they only trust him with a flag, not even a fucking whistle, and he thinks he can be FM.

    Copyright – Barrhead Boy

  90. SOG says:

    There is one aspect of the SNP which concerns me. They seem to avoid taking any action at all against shooting estates where hawks and eagles are killed, though they have legal protection. The worst cases are those poisoned by illegal use of banned pesticides. I can only assume they are cosy with the Hunting, Shooting and Fishing folk. This does not fit with a pro-inde attitude, nor a concern for wildlife and general green issues.

    Details – Raptor Persecution Scotland blog.

  91. Asklair says:

    Someone has got to do this, WoS please keep going.

  92. Contrary says:

    Stu – I like your new articles however much you dislike having to write them -the repetitive ripping apart of British press wasn’t of particular interest to me except on the odd occasion – but once you started applying the same rigour to the information being revealed about the SNP, it’s something I believe we all need to know, however much people still don’t want to believe it.

    The SNP is a political party, they will change their ways if popular opinion demands it, but while we know nothing, we can’t demand, and while people still refuse to believe, despite the evidence, there will be no demand, and it will be a long haul to independence. By ignoring the evidence, people are enabling the poor performance of the SNP (on constitutional matters).

    That a big rambling behemoth of a party like the SNP has not quite held true is not really a surprise – politicians are politicians after all – but that people still think it can’t be true is still a surprise for me. The ‘no debate’ ideology has spread far and wide now, and is not healthy.

    It’s good to know about Patrick Grady, I’ve had my suspicions for some time but had never seen any overt indication from him that he favoured the gradualist agenda. He’s my MP so I don’t need to decide if he gets my vote yet,,, well, hopefully not.

    I would be very pleased if you would invite Tim Rideout to write a guest post on how introducing a new currency nearly immediately after independence IS *actually* SNP policy, something which the current leadership has chosen to ignore. I know it’s not your usual stuff, and won’t inspire your readers, but it IS important – that everyone knows it is the right thing to happen, and that the leadership are not adopting their own party’s voted-for policy. The leadership seem to be hell bent on a path of a neoliberal economic policy (if they ever accidently take us through to independence). I just think the widest possible coverage of this might be the only way the get the current SNP leadership to start behaving according to party rules.

  93. Beaker says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon says:
    10 August, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    “I’ve just completed the wurky-out for the Glasgow region.
    What’s the minimum transfer of votes from SNP to Pro-Indy that would have been required in Glasgow to guarantee 1 Pro-indy seat?
    Well, from my figures for 25% transfer, Pro-Indy would have to have garnered around 14% of the SNP vote (rough working) to gain 1 seat – but it would be a close-run thing.”

    Given that the SQA screwup may cost the SNP some votes in Glasgow, how would that impact the list seats available to another pro-indy party?

    I know it’s difficult to extrapolate numbers anyway, but for example 1,000 pupils decided next year not to vote for the SNP, and say 2,000 of their relatives do the same, and the constituency has 25,000 eligible votes, of which 18,000 actually vote. Then apply the same method across constituencies with similar voting trends.

    I know it looks confusing as I pulled the numbers out of thin air. I do data analysis for a living, but do not understand the list system properly. I’m wondering if a drop in constituency votes might boost SNP list votes, which may impact other pro-indy parties.

  94. schrodingers cat says:

    Scot Finlayson says:
    it`s to do with an ancient belief/ritual that required a sacrifice to end Winter for Spring to arrive.

    dont give ’em ideas Scot, next thing you know ,me bungo pony and I, will be starin’ oot o’ a wickerman

  95. Ottomanboi says:

    “And I think what people in this country often don’t appreciate is the way in which the UK is seen abroad. They don’t see us as England or Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland, what they see is great British institutions” said Boris Johnson.
    Yes indeed, they see and think of the monarchy, Buckingham palace, Big Ben, Harrods, Downing street, afternoon tea, the English language, Shakespeare, thatched cottages, snobbery, Oxbridge, Downton Abbey, Brexit…..and the ex mayor of London telling porkies.

  96. Al-Stuart says:


    I feel the pain too. But with deja vu.

    On 1st May 1997 I voted for Tony Blair and Labour.

    All seemed to go brilliantly compared to the stale, wretched fag-end of a turgid Tory turd-heap run by John Major and his bidey-in Edwina Currie.

    Then came the Iraq War. Alex Salmond took the hugely principled but very unpopular decision then and called Blair out.

    For me the end of New Labour came when that appointed ATOS to kill the disabled off. Stinking Red Tory.

    Downhill very fast with Gordon Brown. Now we have Sir Keir Starmer from central casting as yet another Red Tory.

    My point?

    I did not leave Labour, Labour left me.

    Never again will I vote Labour. To my soul I swear never ever again will I vote for that dishonest bundle of shysters.

    In 2007, I first voted for Alex Salmond because he got the economy right.

    In 2014 Alex persuaded me to vote for Scottish Independence.

    But this McWoke Brigade have poisoned the well of the SNP. A LOT of good and decent SNP lifelong voters are clearly hurting.

    Labour went downhill fast in the end. Gordon Brown didn’t last.

    The same WILL happen for Nicola Sturgeon. She is a VERY GOOD OFFICE MANAGER.

    God bless Alex Salmond, he must be heartbroken that Sturgeon back-stabbed him.

    These arrogant McWokeists wanting to become MSPs make me puke. They are SELFISH SELF-INTERESTED EXCREMENT.

    These shysters have sacrificed Scottish Independence for their own narrow, self-centred, obsessive GRA detritus. Live and let live. By all means put on a frock and have a sex change. But please don’t KILL OFF SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE as part of your parade.

    The SNP high command have an arrogance beyond belief. How the Hell do they thing they got 56 out of 59 MPs? Because disgusted ex-Labour voters were asked to LEND their vote to the SNP.

    Well Nicola and the rest of your McWoke ilk, I am un-lending it.

    Alex Salmond WILL get my vote. The SNP will not. I am not alone amongst those that lent the SNP their vote.


    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    10 August, 2020 at 1:16 pm
    “Not your fault Stu, but for what feels like the longest time, reading this blog seems to only make me mad.”

    Believe me, I feel your pain, man. I hate every article I have to write bashing the SNP instead of Unionists, it’s no fun at all, but this site exists to fight the opponents of independence wherever they are, and right now it’s in far more danger from the SNP than it is from the pathetic rabble of Unionist parties and media.

  97. schrodingers cat says:

    just shy of 65K for legal crowd fund

    put yer money where yer mouths are folks

  98. Bob Mack says:


    Have done. Will do again.

  99. Skip_NC says:

    Beaker, a drop in SNP constituency votes will not directly change the list seat allocation. A drop in constituencies won by the SNP might. The formula for the first list seat is number of list votes divided by (number of constituency seats won in region plus one).

    The point of the D’Hondt system is that the final composition of parliament is intended to roughly reflect the list vote. So if the SNP lose seats in the constituencies because SNP voters switch elsewhere, there is a fair chance that they will lose those votes on the list as well. The result woudl most likely be that they trade a constituency seat for a list one – if they are lucky.

    The bottom line – vote on the list for the party that best represents your values. In the constituency, vote for the party with the best chance of winning that is closest to your values.

  100. Dan says:

    @ da cat

    Maybe you could also put that same suggestion to all our committed Pro-Indy MSPs and MPs that take home considerably more dosh than the average wage.
    With a decent donation from them all to assist the funding and clarification of a matter you’d think they would have an interest in I’m sure the total would soon be reached.

    I’ve knocked my cunt in for years getting them elected and in doing so sacrificed a huge amount of time I could have been earning, and incurred a lot of expense too.
    I’m tapped oot this week as spent bucks yesterday on Indy by procuring an inverter to power a projection project seeing as the “the big important official groups” don’t appear to have done anything like Led By Donkeys.
    Spent best part of today sorting out cabling and terminals and planning install in my car.

  101. Lothianlad says:

    Stu says

    Believe me, I feel your pain, man. I hate every article I have to write bashing the SNP instead of Unionists, it’s no fun at all, but this site exists to fight the opponents of independence wherever they are, and right now it’s in far more danger from the SNP than it is from the pathetic rabble of Unionist parties and media

    100% agree. The biggest threat to Independence is ironically the SNP!
    Change the leader and her careerist, nature denying advisors, and we can put independence back as the priority.

  102. @schrodingers cat,

    nae offence but it had to be someone very important that had been venerated for the year previous,

    always thought Stu or Alex Salmond would fulfil the role of the sacrificial Winter King,

    Scotland is in perpetual Winter under Westminster and we need a sacrifice to end the Winter and bring us into the Spring of a reborn Nation,

    don`t know if Stu would be up for it though 🙂

  103. Stoker says:

    As well as donating what you can folks you can also help spread this around as far & wide as possible please on your Twitter & Facebook and any other blogs you visit.

  104. defo says:

    So we need to burn Neil Lennon then Scot?
    That’ll pick up a few ‘soft no’ blue noses!

  105. robertknight says:

    Party member, activist, branch office bearer, candidate (twice).

    I didn’t leave the SNP…

    and I no longer even recognise it.

    I genuinely hope I never open the door to an SNP canvasser, it’ll break my heart to say what I’ll have to say.

  106. crazycat says:

    @ Beaker at 8.58

    Further to Skip_NC’s comment at 9.26 :

    In 2011, the SNP won all the constituencies in both Glasgow and Lothian.

    In 2016, a voter in Glasgow assuming that they would retain all their seats, and that it was therefore not risky to vote for a different party on the list, would have been correct. (Unless that other party was the Greens, however, that list vote would not have elected an MSP.)

    A voter making the same assumption in Lothian would not have been correct; the SNP lost 3 constituencies, one to each of the multi-coloured Tories, and did not get enough list votes to replace any of them.

    That is not necessarily the same as an across the board drop in support; each of the 3 losses had local features – 2 new candidates, the fall-out from the hounding of Michelle Thomson, etc. It would, however, be trickier for other list parties to win seats if the SNP are also in real contention for them as a consequence of losing/failing to gain constituencies.

  107. Polly says:

    @ stonefree

    Thanks for that information. I remember Ruth being elected MSP. However the campaign was carried out, even if well above board, it still looks bad when her mother was already there and then promoting her father. Just looked like very bad judgement to me and terrible look for the party.

  108. @defo,

    the Winter King sacrifice goes back thousands of years and countless diverse cultures and ethnicities from the tribes of the Americas to iron age Caledonia to the Mongol in his yurt,

    but one thing they all had in common was no gingers ,especialy the tribes from the Amazonian basin couldnae thole the gingers.

  109. defo says:

    All the more reason to burn him then Scot.

    WoS. You learn something new every day!

    Back on topic… is there a female equivalent?

  110. Dogbiscuit says:

    The SNP is stuffed full of mindless twats.

  111. Big Jock says:

    Just been in the people’s action on section 30 legal case.

    They had to do an extra crowdfunder. Guess why?

    The Scottish government tried to delay it for three months and block it! That’s right Nicola’s own government tried to stop the people.

    It’s the feckin final straw!

  112. Velofello says:

    Rev Stu -,”Believe me, I hate every article I write bashing the SNP and not the Unionists…”.

    Stu: I’ve followed this blog from the start,shook your hand in Edinburgh, and your statement here, well, it lifts my spirits. I’m a long term SNP member, now lapsed, I despair at the SNP behaviour.

  113. ‘Confused says:

    10 August, 2020 at 2:49 pm
    thanks again rev, for swimming in this sewer, so most of us don’t have to.’

    Loved yer post. The appropriate amount of anger and vitriolic, sensible scorn for this whole fucking hotel fire.

  114. Polly says:

    @ WhoRattledYourCage

    ‘Anybody got any thoughts, positive, or negative, on it, and what it’s trying to do?’

    I’ll confess I’m not keen, though if successful it can’t do any harm. Various reasons for me to feel that. I’m no lawyer but the wording of it seems off, then there’s the fact the person behind it seems a bit litigious in general and has used newspapers quite a bit for other campaigns in the past. Nothing wrong using newspapers to highlight issues of course, just something in way it was done and the ‘go big or go home’ email shown the other day telling his counsel to proceed was just pure emotional verbiage and not what would constitute a serious business like instruction, and much more for the supporters he was showing it to.

    Also his father I believe (though I hadn’t realised who he was at the time) made remarks yesterday about the wings block list and how it had blocked so many nice yessers and he was very sorry to them all for it but his clever son had sorted it all out for him and now he could be friends with them all. Obviously getting a wider pool of contributions and the dig at Stuart to encourage those who don’t like him to contribute. Astute move in a cold way, especially as I understand the block list must have been his choice to implement. As I say not keen.

  115. Liz g says:

    Big Jock @ 11.36
    Are you sure it the SNP in Holyrood Scottish government and not the Civil Service St Andrews House Scottish government?

  116. ‘jfngw says:
    10 August, 2020 at 4:19 pm
    @red sunset

    More than likely, and once the the opposition have the head of John the Swinney they will forget about it. Their concern for ‘the students’ is just political games, Ruth Davidson will then celebrate with her dance of the seven veils (not sure I want to see that one though).’

    Always found the erstwhile ermine-wearing erse Ms. Davidson to be utterly disgustingly fascinating, a cantankerous pathological ball of never-ending rage. Will she ever get enough revenge on a country in which she grew up gay and religious, and may have suffered homophobia (wisnae me, dinnae ken) as a result of this? She certainly utterly despises a country she wants to bring her son up in, anyway.

  117. Big Jock says:

    Liz- Since March 2020 we have had to deal with a number of administrative motions. The first was resisting a motion by the Scottish Government to halt proceedings for 3 months. We won this motion – and the 8 week “adjustment period” commenced, being the time in which parties refine their arguments.

  118. Polly says:

    @ Liz g

    ‘Are you sure it the SNP in Holyrood Scottish government and not the Civil Service St Andrews House Scottish government?’

    It’s alway too easy, Liz, to confuse the two.

  119. ‘Grouser says:
    10 August, 2020 at 5:01 pm
    I hope Eastwood goes with a local candidate who has worked in the constiuency.
    I was told the story of a South Glasgow constituency who had a council candidate parachuted in over the heads of good branch candidates who wanted to stand and who had the support of the branch members. The branch lost some good members over the whole sorry business.’

    They tried to foist Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh on Falkirk years ago, and were told in no uncertain terms where to go, as I recall.

  120. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    This lass gives a good opinion on these blokes with beards trying pass as women

    The bandwidth -wtf

  121. Beaker says:

    @Skip_NC says:
    10 August, 2020 at 9:26 pm
    “The bottom line – vote on the list for the party that best represents your values. In the constituency, vote for the party with the best chance of winning that is closest to your values.”

    Monster Raving Loony Party 1st vote if they get a candidate. I’m being serious. See if they can beat the Lib Dems.

    Thanks to you and crazycat for the clarity. If I get really bored over the next few weeks I might start playing around with figures.

  122. ‘Kenny says:
    10 August, 2020 at 8:06 pm
    TIE is a very creepy thing, mainly because it is being pushed almost solely by politicians who, as I have written here before, have this weird obsession with sex – and not in a good way.’

    No kids in certain quarters, to make people make more adult and sensible suggestions and choices in some areas of life. Not an insult, just an observation. You don’t win over parents with sexual minority weirdness. Whether you think parents are ‘prudes’ or not is irrelevant. You don’t understand them, and they understand you very well…because they used to BE you before parenthood.

  123. ‘schrodingers cat says:
    10 August, 2020 at 9:05 pm
    just shy of 65K for legal crowd fund

    put yer money where yer mouths are folks’

    Already done.

  124. Beaker says:

    I see more footballers at it again. Bolingilo (spelling??) fucks off to Spain on the sly, and Griffiths has a party – well there’s a fucking surprise.

  125. Stoker says:

    Strange how GMK can write this whole guff expecting folk to believe it when he makes absolutely no mention of Sturgeon’s promises (or call them what you will) such as IndyRef by the end of 2020 etc etc.

    If the snp have a strategy to Yes then someone had better let Sturgeon in on it because her actions, or lack of them, regarding certain issues tells me she hasn’t a clue about this “clear strategy” GMK speaks of.

    If such a “clear strategy” exists then why has Sturgeon made promises/commitments she has failed to keep? And that’s before we include Angus’ battle cry of ‘We shall not be dragged out of the EU against our will.” Oops! There we go! Right out on our ears.

    And if this great “clear strategy” of his does exist then what’s he doing spreading it all out on paper (so to speak) for all to see? Fuckin brilliant plan that eh? Tell your enemy what your intentions are. Fuck me! Tool, sharpest, box all spring to mind.

  126. twathater says:

    @ Polly 11.46pm I actually wrote to Martin asking him to pursue a legal ruling on the Treaty Of Union rather than the sect 30 ruling which I feel is infinitely more important , AFAIK this challenge is to force WM legally to accede to a sect 30 request for a ref but even if they do accede (fat chance) there is no guarantee that the SNP will accommodate the ref b4 2021 if at all

    Although I would prefer the TOU route I have still donated £20 and will do so again if finances permit , it may be a long shot but I do feel that indy supporters should donate if possible and show both WM and HR that we are deadly serious in our intentions and we will NOT just sit back and let them ignore us
    And as Big Jock says HR were at the delaying and obstruction tactics which was indicative to me of their attitude to indy

  127. schrodingers cat says:

    Dan says:
    Maybe you could also put that same suggestion to all our committed Pro-Indy MSPs and MPs that take home considerably more dosh than the average wage.

    RevStuJuly 16, 2020 at 5:27 PM
    (Oh, and as I’ve also noted on Wings recently: the SNP’s official accounts should be published next month. I’m very happy to wager a tenner that when they are, they’ll show the SNP as having less money in the bank than Wings Over Scotland currently does.)

  128. schrodingers cat says:

    ouch, martin is now commited, he has no choice but to hit his target

    Martin J Keatings @MartinJKeatings

    Go big or go home.

    We’re at 57K of our £155K target but my faith in the Yes movement is unwavering. On that basis, I am willing to assume the personal risk. At 1.13pm this afternoon, I formally instructed counsel to move to the next phase and schedule hearings etc.

  129. Stuart MacKay says:

    The thing is with crowdfunders you have to be pushing it in peoples faces everywhere, all the time. I see the “Peoples Action on Section 30” by Forward as One referenced a few times but only vaguely and indirectly my mentioning Martin J Keatings.

    How about a link, How about funding updates.

    You need to keep reminding people that it’s there because you never know when you’ll hit the button that triggers them to donate.

    Forward as one has another crowd funder, which match it’s original target, I think did not quite meet it’s stretch target but how would I know. But the point is that Forward as One seems successful. They seem serious. Maybe, I’ll donate because they have a track record, they seem popular and they look as if they know what they are doing.

    This all might be covered on twitter and facebook so often that everybody is sick to death of it, but by some accident it’s rarely mentioned on the biggest pro-independence blog there is.

    This is just an armchair observation but it seems y’all could be doing a lot better.

  130. Bill McLean says:

    Contributed to Martin’s fund – come on folks our country deseres better than the class-ridden, clowns that inhabit Westminster and a Tory government which acts like a crime family!

  131. Breeks says:

    WhoRattledYourCage says:
    10 August, 2020 at 10:37 pm

    I donated a tenner to this. Anybody got any thoughts, positive, or negative, on it, and what it’s trying to do?

    I think it’s got to be supported.

    To be blunt, I don’t think it’s our “best shot”, but it’s the Scottish Government who is in possession of all our “best shots”, and determined to take none of them.

    Some people argue there are risks and ramifications if he loses, and dangerous precedents which might be set, but frankly those precedents, IF they happen, seem no more damaging to the cause than our lightweight “Scottish Government” cocking it’s leg on Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and capitulating to Brexit.

    I have commented in the past that I would have preferred to see a straight out dispute contesting the UK’s unwritten convention on sovereignty and the inherent incompatability which exists beside Scotland’s written and explicit sovereign Constitution. In the words of the Highlander movie… “There can be only one…”

    So why do I support it? Well, the same reason as I supported Joanna Cherry dragging the UK Establishment to Court. It’s not the action itself, but it’s proof to the non-believers that Scotland and it’s Constitution is a very real and potent phenomenon in the realm of domestic and International law.

    Since 1707, Scotland the Nation has been emasculated by the Union in the realm of International Relations, but in the realm of Law, Scotland still has the legal personality of a fully fledged Independent Nation. If you doubt that, then explain to me what constitutional phenomenon it was which compelled Boris Johnson to un-prorogue his “sovereign” Westminster Parliament. Hint.. it was Scots Law putting a “UK Sovereign” in his place. Do the arithmetic.

    Because the Scottish Government hasn’t the guts to take on Westmestminster, the whole of Scotland must look upon these ostensibly minor legal challenges to the UK Establishments hegemony as the tapers which might light the fuse, which will lead to one almighty conflagration and the full blown Constitutional standoff between Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and the faux-sovereign convention of the UK Parliament.

    Joanna Cherry twice lit the fuse and presented Scotland with legal victories which a willing Scottish Government could have escalated into full blown Constitutional disputes and procedural interdicts. It is clearly a waste of time presenting such opportunities to “this” Scottish Government, which has no appetite for confrontation and who’s bizarre instincts were to turn on Joanna Cherry.

    The good thing about Martin Keatings challenge is that it’s kinda calling the SNP’s bluff, and if he wins, the SNP will find it much harder to sweep the ramifactions under the carpet in the same way as they did for Joanna Cherry.

    I actually think Joanna Cherry’s defeat of Boris Johnson’s prorogation put the constitutional crosshairs right between the eyes of the Union, but her victory over the whole UK Establishment was dismissed as a tree falling in the woods which didn’t make any sound. I think perhaps it was ‘too’ clever and didn’t take enough people along.

    Even though I personally think the challenge to Section 30 is more lightweight in Constituional terms (it merely challenges the potency of Devolution, not the whole the UK Constitution), I think what Martin Keatings has, which Joanna Cherry perhaps did not, is a lot kindling around the touchpaper. I think is a much greater likelihood of it escalating into a Constitutional standoff which ultimately, the UK Union will not survive.

    Maybe it’s not our best shot, but at least the SNP can’t kill it off, although it seems they have tried to do just that. I don’t know what the SNP is playing at. Maybe it would take a trial for impeachment to find out.

  132. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Watched ‘Official Secrets’ last night. It’s on Prime.

    Highly recommended if you want to remember how it felt to have Tony Fucking Blair, Bush, Powell, Goldsmith etc on telly 24/7 lying in our faces.

    We all get scunnered sometimes and feel like chucking it.

    Better that than genuinely not giving a fuck at all – that’s how many of us felt pre-Blair/Iraq/Kelly, but all that stuff gave us a proper shake – where did that SNP landslide in 2011 truly originate if not from Labour/Tory/WM lies and warmongering?

    We put the SNP where it is and it owes us, big-time. It really is that simple.

  133. jfngw says:

    @ian brotherhood

    It’s a strange feeling looking back, the relief to get the Tories out without realising they had more or less just been re-elected. Still remember passing Brian Wilson in a corridor at about four in the morning looking full if himself.

  134. Polly says:

    @ twathater

    I agree with your post. The Section 30 route is very weak and bases itself only on devolution, doesn’t move us on, is dependent on time to try to enact it after court decides, then on SNP being able or willing to do so and then on Westminster not enacting new laws before ours passes or one in retrospect as they did with the continuity bill. Very weak position to take and seems like a lot of money and expense of energy and too much hope invested to achieve very little, but you’re right it’s better than nothing in the present circumstances, so why not support.

    @ Cat

    I agree with Dan that well paid, lifelong members of and activists for independence who have for the last thirteen years at least drawn very good salaries and expenses from sitting as members in both parliaments should be putting their hands in their pockets much more than ordinary folk, and if they had Martin would be at far higher numbers. The SNP coffers might be more weighty had they not wasted so much money as they have with little apart from the odd well made video to show for it. Perhaps all those on salaries and hangers on who’ve found work with the party should also dig deep. Perhaps, like me, they think this court action isn’t the best means of moving forward, but then it might not have been clung on to by so many as a lifeline to safety had SNP fought harder against Westminster in the previous years. And since you support the party all the way on the steps they’ve taken I don’t think you’re in a position to lecture anyone about how they should spend their money.

  135. Liz says:

    I also contributed to Martins fund although I’d prefer what Breeks is talking about. Challenge the TOU.

    I never thought things would get worse within the SNP but they have.
    They’ve fully morphed into new labour.

    Can’t tell you how depressed I feel.
    Maybe things will get better but Holyrood is full of mediocrities and is about to get worse if all these kids get their own way.

    I know Alex isn’t writing a book and it’s not fair to expect so much of him but I hope he has a plan.
    I’m too old to leave Scotland now but if we don’t become indy, it’s going to be a sad place to live

  136. jfngw says:


    The other problem I see if your case is based on being within the rules of the devolution settlement, what’s to stop them changing the rules as they did before. They won’t care how it looks, they will even use it as a propaganda tool when we do try and leave.

    Breeks & twathater are correct it would have been better basing it on something Westminster can’t alter.

  137. Dan says:

    @schrodingers cat at 4:33 am

    Soz, don’t see what the SNP Party’s overall finances have got to do with their elected representatives choosing to contribute to the crowdfunder out of their own well enumerated pockets.

    If the Party is so concerned about its finances it may have been a prudent modus for some of its members not to push policies and behave in ways that pissed off the membership to the point they stopped donating or gave up their membership completely.
    If things are that tight then maybe stop sending out fancy shiny cards with the dear leader’s coupon on them to the entire membership. That’ll save a few quids.
    Plus surely they’ll be getting a wee bit of dosh in return from the invested monies “ring fenced”* for an Indy campaign.

    * “ring fenced” may mean different things to different people these days seeing as the definition of words is becoming fluid in ways such as any proffered criticism can be classed as HATE, and the word woman can mean someone with a male body whose fathered kids.

  138. Denise says:

    So what are you going to do about this Wings?
    Women need a pro-indy party that cares about women’s rights to vote for.
    My plan is to spoil my first vote and vote ISP on the list. But I am wondering if you are still considering a new party. The SNP needs an opposition.

  139. Polly says:

    @ jfngw

    Yes entirely agree with them and you. And also agree with Liz above. But we’re at the desperation end now and things will get worse before any dawn or spring, but hopefully no more sacrifices, Salmond’s scalp being on the line was enough.

  140. Colin Alexander says:

    Re Martin Keatings and Forward As One

    I have nothing but praise for the guy. He’s trying to achieve something positive for Scotland. Compare this to the inaction of the SNP / Scot Govt.

    We aren’t yet able to see the final amended pleadings, so it’s hard to say exactly what legal positions will argued, eg. Whether it will be argued that constitutionally Scotland has the right to self-determination AND ALSO it has the right to self-determination as a jus cogens right in international law,

    so that trumps the attempts of the Scottish Govt and English Govt who are both trying to deny Scotland’s people’s the right to self-determination using the legal straitjacket of British devolution laws. E.G. The Scotland Act 1998 / 2016.

  141. iain mhor says:

    Skimming through the Government of India Act 1935 (as you do)
    I was struck by the similarities to the Scotland Act; in particular – Part V Chapter 2 Section 108 – Legislative Powers.

    Whereby India (specifically her ‘Provinces’) could not repeal any Act of the British parliament without the approval of the governor general or make a law in relation to the sovereign in any circumstance.

    “…there shall not be introduced into, or moved in, either Chamber of the Federal Legislature, any Bill or amendment which…repeals, amends or is repugnant to any provisions of any Act of Parliament extending to British India’ etc.

    Frankly after some more intense skimming and referencing a few other Colonial Acts – I concluded that the Scotland Act was just some judicious cut & pasting of old Acts applied to British Colonies and varous federated Commonwealth dominions.
    So no great revelation there.

    Ultimately they all found a way out – up to and including the novelty of rejecting the monarchy, thereby severing Parliamentary Sovereignty.
    A tactic also utilsed, in part, by the (then) Irish Free State – first withdrawing oath of allegiance etc prior to ultimately declaring republicanism.
    Alternatively, like South Africa, implementing a bypass of the Royal Assent required for bills to be passed in its own parliament – effectively severing Westminster Parliamentary sovereignty.

    [I think the last Wings poll showed 50% in favour of Scotland retaining the monarchy – that was a long time ago though…]

    Anyway, that’s only an interesting aside in the murky history of secession from Empire, which often had a lot of blood involved. I don’t propose a solution for Scotland, excepting to note that everyone found a way.
    Not least because, although the Scotland Act was an effective cut & paste job, it differed from the rest in one important point – the incorporation of any aspect of the Statute of Westminster 1931.

    Following Balfour and the subsequent incorporation of the Statute of Westminster into their legislature; most Dominions had the autonomy and right to amend, or repeal any legislation – in effect, they had the sovereign competence to do so.

    “No Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom passed after the commencement of this Act shall extend, or be deemed to extend, to a Dominion as part of the law of that Dominion, unless it is expressly declared in that Act that that Dominion has requested, and consented to, the enactment thereof”

    “No law and no provision of any law made after the commencement of this Act by the Parliament of a Dominion shall be void or inoperative on the ground that it is repugnant to the Law of England, or…any existing or future Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom…the powers of the Parliament of a Dominion shall include the power to repeal or amend any such Act, order, rule or regulation in so far as the same is part of the law of the Dominion”

    The alert will notice this precedes the Government of India Act 1935 and indeed the ‘Indian Act had the offending ‘binding’ section consequently removed and India repealed the entire GoI Act in 1950.
    The ‘Government of India Act itself, was a precursor to move India towards official Dominion Status which others in theb’Emlire’ had ready been afforded.
    Interestingly the ‘India Act’ (among others) lay on UK Statute, until the ‘Statute Law (repeals) Act of 1998.
    Y’know, just in case it came in handy for cutting and pasting into new legislation for some other *cough uppity province.

    Scotland of course still retains the offending ‘competency’ clauses within the Scotland Act of err..1998.
    We are still incompetent to act in any way ‘repugnant to Westminster’ – quite literally it appears..

    So what is Scotland’s status? Extinquished, annexed, incorporated, or merely her sovereignty dominated by that of Westminster and the English Crown – a diminutive dominion of England without the autonomy afforded one – Answers on a postcard.

    I haven’t looked closely at Martin Keatings case yet, but I do hope he asks the right questions. Very important in a court to identify and ask the right questions – You really have to be Socratic.

  142. Polly says:

    @ Dan

    ‘Soz, don’t see what the SNP Party’s overall finances have got to do with their elected representatives choosing to contribute to the crowdfunder out of their own well enumerated pockets.’

    Of course nothing to do with SNP, it was a dirty dig at wings and his very successful crowdfunders, he wasn’t maligning his beloved do no wrong SNP, nor the crowdfunded he’s now promoting to fight for what the SNP failed to do for us.

  143. Bob Mack says:

    Reading the scotsgoespop blog is incredible. It is full of very snooty Indy supporters criticising Stu and this will kill you. Some hope that the Wings contributors never become candidates because they feel we don’t have the intellectual ability to carry it off.

    Is this a reflection on their party? Funny thing is I remembering oxygen from Wings but none were correct in their analysis from that time.

    They remain shut your eyes and move forward. Trust in Nicola.

  144. Republicofscotland says:

    So Boris Johnson has said that people abroad don’t see Scotland they only see the the British institution. I say who wants to live in an institution, anyway I think Johnson would like the world not to see Scotland but that isn’t the case, many people come on holiday to Scotland specifically which is the elder of the two countries in this forced and terrible union.

    I think that at every turn this British government is attempting to diminish Scotland in any form or fashion. Independence is sorely needed.

    Meanwhile Douglas Ross, refuses to deny that there was a plot to overthrow the failed car salesman and mediocre politician Jackson Carlaw.

  145. stonefree says:

    @Polly 10:35 pm

    Burns promoted Sturgeon, she wanted the council leader’s job, back stabbed willie Gibson and as a consequence lost control of the council but she got the SNP Group Leader job, I think that gave her a £10k hike in money
    I’d suggest Patrica Gibson was less than kosher

  146. Republicofscotland says:

    Leading lights line up to shoot down the perverse SNPs Hate Crime bill they fear it will undermine free speech.

  147. Polly says:

    @ stonefree

    Not being from that area I didn’t know much about council politics until papa Sturgeon was promoted and resulting denouement. Thank you for the information.

  148. Big Jock says:

    Iain – All those countries India, Eire etc. Had to do something unconstitutional or outside domestic law , in order to light the path to independence.

    Indians essentially went on strike and also committed the illegal act of salt panning. In Eire’s case they withdrew from WM and then took over the post office in Dublin after setting up their own sovereign parliament.

    Our Scottish government still think they can have a nice petition and sign a few letters to get independence. The English are not going to let us walk away from this. Like it or not there is going to have to be some form of mass strike or a skirmish.

    Confrontation is inevitable when dealing with an autocratic state.

  149. Effijy says:

    Bob Mack

    Wings contributors don’t have the intellect to be a politician?

    How about Gray the former Labour leader who asked where the money would come from for an oil fund?

    How about Tory Grayling spending millions to hire ships from a company with no ships?

    What about Cummings and Gove Driving cars with their kids in it when they don’t know if they can see properly?

    I think the contributors here on Wings fly way above the dross we currently endure!

  150. Ottomanboi says:

    The contemporary SNP defines itself as ‘civic nationalist’ albeit the current leader baulks at the very concept of nationalism. All very neat and inclusive but also signally anodyne and uninspiring.
    Johnson, soon to holiday amongst us, brings a different species of nationalism to the party. It’s British, it’s ethnic, institutional and totally without political correctness and does not require lawyers to dispense it. Ironically it is the species of nationalism that animated the liberation movements of the 19th and early 20th century. The culture rooted dynamic that brought down empires. No doubt he will re-employ its themes in the Brexit cause.
    I consider civic nationalism a legalistic aberration. A somewhat half baked substitute for the full blooded real article which for too many so called ‘independentists’ has become a kind of marmite test. As the saying goes, if you don’t like the heat, get out of the kitchen.
    Blood and soil nationalism this is not, I refer to an intellectual, culture driven nationalism that unites across the ‘faux divisions’, the divisions inherited from the current dispensation, of the political spectrum.
    The national movement has lost its dynamism and is stuck in a rut of its or rather the SNP’s own making.
    What is to be done?

  151. Effijy says:

    I find it so amusing that the English Tory supreme race
    Who have demanded control of their borders are sending their
    Representatives to France today with a request for them to
    Take control of their borders! Lol

    The citizens of the French towns bordering their coast must
    Hate having so many desperate migrant camps on their doorstep.

    The French charities are straining to feed and offer medical assistance
    To so many who don’t want to be in France.

    Why would the French want to retain these people to help an arrogant
    English Government who wants nothing to do with the EU and who made
    Their citizens so I welcomed that they had to return to France?

  152. Gullane No 4 says:

    It is beginning to look like Scotland will once again manage to snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory.
    We seem to be a world class nation of squabbling like spoilt kids and losing sight of the real target.
    Quite tiresome the amount times this has happened during my lifetime.
    I don’t know what the WoS ‘readers’ figures have been lately, we haven’t seen them for a while, or maybe I have missed them.
    I used to like this site, It filled me with hope.
    Not now, in fact probably the opposite.

  153. Lorna Campbell says:

    Beaker: yes, he’s a politician and, yes, the SQA does follow rules. That is not my point. My point is that he is being assailed by the Unionists as a matter of political expediency and callous disregard for the real issues, and he is probably yet another seasoned member of the hierarchy whom the ‘wokerati’ wish to displace and replace. Mistakes have been made, but I’m just not sure that they are John Swinney’s mistakes. We seem to have no answer (except for this site and others) to the incessant Unionist carping and political sharpening of knives. I’d recommend that the FM (I know she won’t) make it plain that she intends to make a 2021 win the stepping stone for immediate independence. That would give both the Unionists and the ‘wokerati’ a well-deserved kick up their respective rone pipes, and galvanize the independence campaign.

  154. susan says:

    I don’t think migrants should be accepted willy-nilly. Acceptance just drives migration.

  155. Bob Mack says:


    I suppose I am a Nationalist in that I have travelled the world extensively and seen amazing sights and cultures and yet nothing compares to that feeling when I arrive back in Scotland. I always think and say I’m home.

    We Scots are not better,fitter,or smarter than anybody else, but I can communicate easly with a fellow Scot wherever I am. Much in common I suppose.

    I love Scotland for the right reasons. Home, family ,friends
    and the familiarity with her beautiful and varied surroundings.

    I welcome anybody as I am welcomed on my travels.

  156. Bob Mack says:

    @gullane no4,

    No responsibility attributed to the SNP then? Just Wings. Oh boy!!

  157. kapelmeister says:


    Oh sure. Sturgie was just about to put it in the back of the net and win us independence with her brilliant master strategy of asking BoJo for a section 30.

  158. Mialuci says:

    Bob Mack

    Enduring, what a nice big word that is, it kind of means to suffer, can I say that I have ever suffered, well, compared to a lot of people I know and have known the answer has to be no.
    I have watched people die in front of me, I have seen people who do not even have a bit of stale bread to eat, have I suffered, yes I suffered because I had to witness the suffering of so many others, that’s how I suffered, but thanks to a lot of good fortune I have been ok, well, the doc says as long as I keep taking my tablets I will be ok…. Love is all you need

  159. jfngw says:

    @Bob Mack

    Can I put my hand up and say I would make a bloody awful politician, I don’t have the temperament. Pretty sure I would lose it one day with the London parties and get thrown out.

  160. schrodingers cat says:

    kinda agree with the aims of this legal action, if he wins, it proves we can hold indyref2 without a s30

    i thought that was a given? not sure how this can force unionists to vote if such a referendum were called?

    I cant remember seeing support from other legal eagles such as peat worrier or joanna cherry (or CBB’s either 🙂 ) that is a worry.

    we have seen the lack of justice for our cause so winning isnt a given.

    I’m also unsure if the phrase ” it cant do any harm” is applicable here either?

    if martin wins and the end result if a damp squib, it might deter future legal action

    after saying this, he is now commited. whether i agree completely with him, i feel bound over to support him

    Did stu ever come out and support Martin? do an article or allow Martin to post one here?

    even if the answer is yes, it might be an idea to repost it again stu.

    150k is a lot of money, what happens if he doesnt make it?

  161. schrodingers cat says:

    Bob Mack says:
    @gullane no4,
    No responsibility attributed to the SNP then? Just Wings. Oh boy!!
    wings is shedding support, long term supporters. they are allowed to comment btl aswell?

  162. Bob Mack says:


    Who is stopping them?

  163. Beaker says:

    @Big Jock says:
    11 August, 2020 at 10:26 am
    “Like it or not there is going to have to be some form of mass strike or a skirmish.”

    Who the fuck is going to go on strike? Do you honestly believe there will be a mass walkout by Scottish workers? Where’s the rational for such an action. Given it would likely be illegal, companies could quite legitimately fire people, and there are plenty of people now looking for work.

    A skirmish? This isn’t fucking Hong Kong or Belarus. This is the worst possible action as it cannot be controlled. There are those people who will quite happily riot regardless of the reason (which the in all likelihood don’t understand). The blame for any such action will be laid at the feet of the SNP and probably AUOB.

  164. jfngw says:

    @schrodingers cat

    You can’t make the unionists vote but they also can’t refer to it as an illegal referendum, and the councils would need to accommodate it.

    My main concern is, I stated this earlier, is if it is based on the devolution bill then what stops them from changing the law, they have already had the Sewel convention ruled as meaningless, it could end up as a lot of money down the drain.

    What happened to CBB anyway, he seems to have just disappeared?

  165. Polly says:

    @ Cat

    ‘I’m also unsure if the phrase ” it cant do any harm” is applicable here either?’

    Got to try harder than that to catch me out in an argument. I stipulated if he is successful it can’t do any harm. You’re entirely correct if he loses might deter other case such as is proposed by Michael Gray, which seem far better to me. Also losing will only frighten notoriously cautious Sturgeon more. I’m cautious too in argument but prefer to bring the fight to enemy ground.

  166. Robert Louis says:

    Breeks at 0817am, and Iain Mhor, later.

    Excellent posts. Found the detail from the India act very interesting, yet the parallels with other countries breaking free from English colonialism are there to see. It just needs a leader with guts, to stand up and say, ‘no, our country no longer recognises this authority in England’.

    But I have to say, I totally agree with Breeks, the section 30 case IS worth supporting (we should ignore the concern trolls), and indeed, it may further push us towards a genuine constitutional confrontation.

    What the section 30 case will do, is take away the feeble excuse used by the SNP that they currently use to prevent indyref2.

    Oh how I wish Scotland had a champion, along the lines of Alex Salmond, again. The current SNP leadership behaves like a bunch of feart wee kittens, afraid to say or do anything to upset ‘the blatantly biased and anti-Scotland media, or Westminster’s Tory thugs. Sitting back, letting Scotland be forcibly, illegally and wholly unconstitutionally removed from the EU, against its clear wishes.

    So, the section 30 case really needs supporting. It might wake NS up. The people are angry, and want action. The time for talking ended when England unilaterally decided to rip Scotland from the EU against its wishes.

  167. schrodingers cat says:


    i wasnt referring to any comment you made, genuinely

  168. robertknight says:

    Beaker @ 1148

    “The blame for any such action will be laid at the feet of the SNP and probably AUOB.”


    Cast your mind back to 2014 and all the online threats allegedly made to the likes of that supposed comedienne Susan Calman, and others, that were splashed over the front pages and attributed Yes supporters/cybernats with no proof.

    Or the riot in George Square on results night when the knuckle dragging Union Bears and their mates attacked anyone not wrapped in a Union flag, which the MSM painted as a confrontation between two groups and to whom they apportioned equal blame, when the Police and any independent observer knew exactly who did what to whom.

    This bullshit is going to happen again when the MSM, 77th Bde and UK Govt. all sit down around the table and revise the playbook as to how to thwart Indy Scotland by fair means and foul.

    @Big Jock – We don’t need idiots on the streets causing trouble, the British State already has them at the ready.

  169. Polly says:

    @ Cat

    Yet you quoted the exact words that only I said. Ok, then maybe I’ve just made a stupendous impression on you. Pax 🙂

  170. Philip Maughan says:

    I don’t understand. Surely if the SNP are committed to all-female shortlists for Scottish Parliamentary seats then how can a ‘male’ stand at Eastwood, not to mention Edinburgh South, where Joanna Cherry has been blocked from standing?

  171. Polly says:

    @ robertknight

    ‘We don’t need idiots on the streets causing trouble, the British State already has them at the ready.’

    Well said, they’re waiting for that.

  172. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC (11.45) –

    wings is shedding support, long term supporters.

    Do you have any evidence – at all – to back that up?

  173. Big Jock says:

    I think there are an awfy lot of naive folk out there.

    Does anyone think that we are just going to walk off into the sunset , after signing a wee form. It might start with paper, it might end up in the courts , but the British will not let Scotland leave.

    “Idiots on the street” Who mentioned that. It really pisses me off when you make a comment and then people add their own Picasso painting to it(Please don’t put words in my mouth). I used the word Skirmish, not riot or fight. A skirmish is a show down with the Scottish parliament and the people. A test of wills.

    The Indian Strike was an example of direct action , when met with an extreme colonist. Scotland hasn’t crossed the British yet! We are just playing games at the moment. When we cross them and they shut down Holyrood (and they can).

    We will either take direct action or direct rule from London via their new HQ in Edinburgh. Does anyone seriously think that is just there for window dressing. It’s ready for when they have to close our parliament. At the moment it’s a symbol of power , but soon it might be the chief colonists residence.

  174. Polly says:

    @ Big Jock

    ‘I used the word Skirmish, not riot or fight.’

    You’re right and I’m sorry if I seemed to add to the wrong interpretation of what you said. Skirmish though could be interpreted as more than you meant, but you’re correct, in the context of what you said I understand. The people being on the streets though does possibly invite bad agents to cause trouble in our names and as you say all options should be tried before large demonstrations or strikes are contemplated. I also agree with other people who say most folk probably wouldn’t agree to a strike and it might never come to pass. And I worry about the measures westminster is already putting in place to stop any post brexit protests. England does have a history of riots which we don’t up here, yet we’ll be caught in their measures and tarnished with their crimes.

  175. Big Jock says:

    Hi Polly

    Apology accepted.

    The confrontation is unlikely to be of our making. The British will push and push , and it might just be inevitable even if we don’t want it.

    The kind of people who can go on strike are our MP’s, MSP’s and our councillors. That group alone would be capable of disrupting the British state. Sure they could run the parliament and do without the Scottish Mp’s at WM. But they simply don’t have the numbers to run our councils as well.

  176. Polly says:

    Big Jock,

    ‘The kind of people who can go on strike are our MP’s, MSP’s and our councillors. That group alone would be capable of disrupting the British state.’

    Very true and a pretty good idea, but would they do it? It would make a huge statement and one I’d like to see enacted. In fact I’d pay good money for that privilege. Fingers crossed some of them realise the value of something along those lines.

  177. Colin Alexander says:

    Iain mhor

    I’ve told people on Wings on several occasions the Scot Govt is the Scottish Raj.

    The FM is Maharani Sturgeon.

  178. Big Jock says:

    Swinney is flapping in his statement just now. He is defending himself, but not in a firm manner. By his tone he sounds like a someone caught out and back tracking.

    I think it would be best if he went. I don’t like seeing a wounded animal in public.

  179. Breeks says:

    robertknight says:
    11 August, 2020 at 12:19 pm

    ….This bullshit is going to happen again when the MSM, 77th Bde and UK Govt. all sit down around the table and revise the playbook as to how to thwart Indy Scotland by fair means and foul.

    Brace yourself. Your next instalment of horseshit propaganda is on it’s way. BBC2 on Monday is showing a Documentary on the Alex Salmond conspiracy.

    Kirsty Wark presenting it. Sarah Smith must be pure beelin’.

  180. Wee Chid says:

    Is politics the new rock ‘n roll and a quick ticket to celebrity status?

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