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Wings Over Scotland


Actually doing it

Posted on July 29, 2017 by

The Yes movement, like almost all movements, is plagued with a small but incredibly loud faction of intolerant, destructive extremists. Alert readers will have noticed that this site has again been the victim of them this week, but we’re not alone. They’ve also gone after two print publications – The National and iScot – over their “transgressions” against the beliefs of these self-appointed arbiters of what people are allowed to think.

What those two outlets and Wings have in common is achievement.

This site is by a huge margin the biggest pro-independence voice on the internet. The National is the only pro-independence voice on daily newsstands. And iScot is the only pro-indy magazine, taking the message to places no other medium can reach.

The last of those was the most difficult challenge by far. Wings built itself up online and is fairly easy to maintain, being essentially one bloke with a computer. The National, while on a shoestring budget, has a major international publishing corporation behind it which helped it get up and running without many logistical/financial obstacles.

But to produce a monthly glossy magazine with high production values and quality content and distribute it all the way across the country is a monumental task that’s all but inconceivable for a tiny team starting from nothing. It just doesn’t happen. And yet somehow editor Ken McDonald has made it happen, and kept it running for years.

It’s now being viciously savaged for insanely petty reasons by the same worthless clique of sniping, carping, bedwetting wannabe-media-careerist whiners who are also attacking Wings and The National – people who’ve done nothing more difficult in their lives than get themselves into positions in a minor party and become a list MSP off the back of a tiny handful of votes, and most of whom have managed even less than that.

The silent majority of good and decent Yes supporters have generously put their hands in their pockets a fair bit already this month, supporting the splendid Wee Ginger Dug and our own fundraiser for court action to defend Yes campaigners from the endless smears of Unionist politicians and media – little knowing that the most bitter attacks would be coming from our own side.

But supporting iScot is different. You’re not making a charitable donation, you’re buying something that’s worth the money. It’s a great magazine, and well worth the piffling £3 a month that the digital edition costs. (The print edition, including delivery to your door every month, is just £5.99 and there’s no year-long commitment.)

They need a modest £10,000 or so in subs to survive another year. If some kind of arsehole-seeking virus wiped out half of the squealing indy bedwetters overnight, the truth is that nobody would notice or care and no harm would be done to the Yes cause (probably the reverse). But iScot would be an irreplaceable loss. Nobody would step up to fill that gap. Winning independence would get a little bit harder.

We really hope it isn’t allowed to die. Click the pic above to help save it.

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    1. 29 07 17 10:57

      Actually doing it | speymouth

    216 to “Actually doing it”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      Curious how some so-called ‘liberal’ websites see themselves on the other side of the divide from a right-wing press making similar attacks on the Yes campaign.

      There’s only one goal: self-determination reinstated by the shortest, least contentious route.

      All the rest is merely distracting babble.

    2. Croompenstein says:

      Don’t Let The ‘Union’ destroy Wings….

      https://macalbasite.wordpress.com/2017/07/28/dont-let-the-union-destroy-wings/

      Will chip in for iScot as always….

    3. Ken500 says:

      Says Ross Greer who got in on SNP votes and money. Then campaigns against them. Ungrateful.

    4. Quick question. Do you know if taking the monthly digital copy would be more beneficial financially to them than taking the hard copy?

      I’m guessing even though it costs less per month it would mean more of that money staying with them?

      Thanks

    5. mike d says:

      I have a yearly subscription for iscot magazine. Can’t wait for it to drop through my letterbox.

    6. Ken500 says:

      Lying politicians should be taken to Court. If that is the only way to stop them. The more the better. People are sick of their lies. Even through average sizes ladies, not fat useless lesbians disagree. The fake indignation. In case they are held to account.

      The Courts are finding judgements again May’s illegal Gov every day.

    7. Lenny Hartley says:

      Allways thought Ross Greer along with Patrick Harvie were worth listening too, but All the plaudits Greer has been getting have gone to his heid, time he was taken down a peg or two.
      I was recently in regular contact with Ken McDonald with regard to an article I wrote for IScot, he is working 24/7 for Indy. It’s quite simple back IScot or lose it. Get a print subscription and when you have read it leave it in your Doctors or Dentists waiting room.

    8. HandandShrimp says:

      I really enjoy iScot and will be renewing my annual print subscription in a few weeks. It is a beautifully put together magazine and better than most things on the news stand.

      I have read some good articles on CS but I have also read some fairly awful ones too. I suppose the answer is in the name. It is a space for people to speak, like Hyde Park Corner. There are some good speakers at HPC and the inevitable fundamentalist that is there to damn all unbelievers to hell. It was ever my gripe with the left even from my uni days. Just about all my friends were in the Labour Party, Communist Party and the SWP. It dismayed me how they could more easily savage each other than the right. I consequently never felt moved to join any party, coming to the SNP quite late in life.

      I have no issue with people like Cat Boyd being seduced by a few socialist utterances from Corbyn, we are all on a political journey. I do have a problem with those that think they are the gatekeepers to the truth. As a long haired hippy once said, “you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces.” but “you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in”.

      People read Wings, Guido and other blogs because they are fun. They are a mixture of humour, good research, interaction and they don’t constantly examine their own navels. I get the feeling that places like CS would rather have no readers and remain politically “pure” than actually be a place where people want to go and engage. It is the wee free church of Scottish politics. I don’t want it to go away…I just wish it could loosen its stays.

    9. donald anderson says:

      Some of these halfhearted and fake yessers seem to spend more time attacking the SNP and other yessers than promoting Scottish Independence.

      Yet, the National, in its attempts to be fair, not only gives them space, but Weakly padded out, opinionated, boring, unreadable, columns with hardy anything to say.

      Some admit to voting arch Unionist Right Wing anti Corbyn Labour in Scotland under the pretence of supporting Corbyn’s mild, aspirational, reformist promises that have largely been met by the SNP anyway.

      Even so, how can you vote Corbyn from a Scottish electoral address? How does voting anti Corbyn through an anti Scottish, North Brit Nat Labour Party justify forsaking an Independence vote, never mind an anti Corbyn vote? Then logic has never been a tactic of British divide and rule agents.

    10. john ferguson says:

      Thanks for the heads up. I was not aware of I.Scot. Subscribed to print version.

    11. Jocky's mum says:

      I have just cancelled my monthly donation to Common Space and taken out a monthly subscription to iScot instead. I have been close to cancelling a few times because of some of the journalistic content but kept it going because of Robin McAlpine and the policy research etc. Cant be bothered with it now.

    12. Cactus says:

      Seconded.

      iScot’s August front cover issue above is funny. Who’s that with her arse facing the camera.. is it Arlene? And check out the cheeky cherub at the top rhs too!

      Looking forward to receiving ur latest in the post.

      Get yourselves an ‘The Undefeated’ picture.

      Crafted by iScot’s Maurice.

      Good luck Kendo.

      Yours aye.

    13. stonefree says:

      @Ken500 10:27 am

      “Lying politicians should be taken to Court”.
      From what I have observed that will be a sword that will cut at ALL parties

    14. gordoz says:

      Lenny Hartley said it for me (word for word) – thanks mate couldn’t agree more.

      On balance Ross Greer has become no more than a trouble maker.

      “The irony ?” Hes been doing more harm than good for a long time now and glad its come out now. (John Finnie not much better for me I’m afraid – so disappointed in these guys).

      Suspected Cat Boyd was a bit flakey on issues a while ago but expected more from these guys.

      If they need called out so be it.

    15. Ken500 says:

      Problem with the ‘National’ there is not enough of them. Sold out by noon. Still accessed on line.

    16. gordoz says:

      Just read the Revs posting in total now – couldn’t agree more Mr Campbell.

      Who needs the spanners & the BBC when we’ve got so called pals like these among us eh ?

    17. SandyW says:

      ‘worthless clique of sniping, carping, bedwetting wannabe-media-careerist whiners’ – I bet they speak highly of you 😉

      (Not really, I know they don’t).

    18. David Smith says:

      I’m another happy subscriber to iScot. Like others I look forward to losing athe day after it lands on the doormat! Every month, the short story invariably leaves me wanting more too! ?
      Yes folks, it’s worth every penny so if you haven’t already, get off your arse and subscribe to one of the finest pieces of Scottish print media you’ll find!

    19. Andrew Davidson says:

      A wee donation off to them. I hope enough ‘wee donation’s come in to get them the money they need to keep going.

    20. Betty Boop says:

      Bravo Stu!

      We can’t promote iScot enough. Ken is producing a fantastic magazine of the type yessers apparently craved to get our message out and to promote our country.

      I find it incredible that we had 1.6m yes voters and an awful lot of them won’t (won’t being different from can’t) support those decent publications.

      As for the most recent bletherings on Commonspace and the same power-tripping diva on RScot yesterday morning, the perpetrators seem far more concerned with their own career development. The BBC is giving them more air time than they give the FM, such is the value of their negative, self-obsessed commentary and the damage it might do to Scotland’s future prospects and particularly the SNP.

      @ Steve Stewart

      Any way would be great, but, digital would help fund the print version. I love the print version and it needs to be out there.

    21. Cageybee says:

      Renewed my print subscription so I can read it and pass it on. I have also chipped in a wee biy yo help the appeal. Good luck to everyone involved.

    22. D Jack says:

      ‘…arsehole-seeking virus’? Careful now…

    23. Dan Huil says:

      I think the National still prints an abridged edition of Bella Caledonia every month. It would be good if it could do the same for iScot.

    24. Robert Louis says:

      The iScot magazine, is absolute class. It really is. Not being a ‘digital’ type myself, the printed version is what I prefer. Managed to get a printed copy of the recent one featuring the Border collie from SKY, called Blaze – and met the dog at the Glasgow indy march.

      It is a proper high quality magazine, with some stunning photography – the kind of thing you can leave sitting strategically on the coffee table for your ‘friendly neghbourhood unionists’, when they come to visit. It is THE ‘alternative proper SCOTTISH’ media we all crave.

      A digitial annual subscription is very good value. Even better value (and fun) if you buy it as a gift for one of your unionist chums… 🙂

    25. David Francis says:

      Just bought a year’s sub to iSCOT.

      We must keep it going.

      Have also subscribed to both Wings and WGD.

      As usual, the Chattering Classes speak for no-one but themselves and their tiny cliques, while the rest of us “grunts” get on with actually puting our money and efforts into actually getting things done.

      Those who slag off Stu Campbell, The National and others are doing the Yoonionists job for them.

      Wings, in particular, is the chief debunking-site they hate most and would give anything to see destroyed.

      Those clique-chatterers simply are not in the same league at combatting the endless stream of distorted Unionist Drivel which the MSM pumps-out daily – and they seem far more interested in the “purity” of their cause, rather than the practicalities of taking on the sheer might of that Anti-Indy machine.

      If that lot of sniping allegedly-Yes bletherers are allowed to prevail, the will damage the drive for Independence and we will still be “talking a good game” for decades to come.

      The sound of their own wee voices is all they seem to value – nothing else.

      Time to get real and get on.

    26. Graham King says:

      Stuart, fine to stick up for indy (both senses!) media.

      But shame on you for using ‘bedwetting’ as an insult against unjust critics.

      Bedwetting is a distressing and unwanted problem for numerous children, and a small proportion of adults, including the elderly and infirm and some women after giving birth. In their cases it is certainly not something worthy of blame.

      Please, will you choose your imaginative epithets more discerningly in future?

      Thanks!

    27. quentin quale says:

      iScot is definitely worth the subscription. High production values and splendid articles.

      As for the Common Space people – aye, well done, let’s start an internecine war and then all work together together when the UK gov is at its weakest. Oh wait.

    28. galamcennalath says:

      Left ideological purists always are a pain in the erse. Historically, what did their approach ever achieve for anyone? If anything, they can give a movement a bad name by association because they shout louder than most. For them, being seen by their leftie peers to have fought a good pure fight is more important than actually winning.

      The Indy movement needs a broad church, but even that should perhaps have limits. We want neither the fascist ethnic nationalists from the right, nor the leftie purists who seem to be in it for self/group adoration. Neither group are sufficiently pragmatic nor appealing to actually get a majority of the populace on board!

    29. Wuffing Dug says:

      Not looked at Wings for while (my bad).

      So these numpties are attacking iscot as well – wtf is going on with them? Vote for slab and now this? Jeez.

      That Loki character as well, trying not to get myself started here will go off on one.

      Made a contribution to Wings of Justice & Iscot funds – losing Iscot would be a tragedy, it’s a real quality publication. Got a nice collection of them now 🙂

      Hopefully commonspace etc. will go the way of the risible rise i.e. disappear and we won’t hear any more from the whining weasels.

    30. Fred says:

      As somebody who bought the Herald for about 30 years the National has been a delight! Bought it from day 1 & heart it! It has its fanny detractors, like Sméagol on here for example & at the risk of being branded Gingerphobic, a ginger fanny in Holyrood! iScot I don’t know I’m ashamed to admit!

    31. harry mcaye says:

      I contributed a tenner a couple of weeks ago and will send them another donation. Can anyone clear this up though? Did they not say last year that their fundraiser would be their last? I think they fell considerably short, hence this one, but if they reach the £20,000 target will that be it or, as Stu seems to suggest – “survive another year” -, it’s still ongoing year on year?

    32. I question the commitment of some of those in the green party and some so called socialists, to the cause of Scottish independence.

      I also suspect they have their own agendas and don’t particularly care whether or not their attacks on others who are committed to supporting independence, damages our movement.

      Which would then allow unionists to claim there are splits in our movement for Scottish independence.

    33. Andrew Davidson says:

      @harry mcaye

      Operating costs don’t go away so yeah, it’s the costs to keep going for another year.

      This looks like a last ditch attempt to raise the money to prevent having to shutter the operation after the fund raising attempt earlier this year didn’t hit the target.

    34. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Quick question. Do you know if taking the monthly digital copy would be more beneficial financially to them than taking the hard copy?”

      I suspect that the digital copy is more beneficial, but you’d really have to ask them to be sure.

    35. colin alexander says:

      If people don’t like The National or iScot, leave them to people that do.

      https://www.autonomyscotland.org/aye-to-scotland-but-no-to-abuse/

      The above link highlights the same issue.

      Abusive personal attacks against indy supporters happens on here on a daily basis. And I don’t just mean Rock and myself.

      I’ve watched others subjected to personal insults. Intimidation, bullying.

      If people disagree with others’ comments on WoS, skip them; decide in your head “that’s mince” or make an argument against the comment; give your side of the debate.

      Responding by slagging the person, not the comment, is just a waste of everyone’s time and achieves nothing.

    36. Andrew Davidson says:

      @Peter McCulloch

      I strongly believe that some on the Green side of politics view supporting independence purely as a differentiator for themselves from the Labour/Tory/LibDems: a way for them to be noticed.

      That they can also then find it easier to take votes from the SNP which is made up of voters of all parts of the political spectrum I suspect is another part of the calculus for coming to an indy supporting position.

      I don’t care though as long as they actually support it but time and again they show a pattern of behaviour of sniping from the sidelines and not supporting the cause of the leading proponents of it.

    37. Marie Clark says:

      Personally, I find commonspace and Bella a waste of space most of the time. When you get a copy of Bella in the National once a month, I generally find it unreadable. Maybe it’s just me.

      These so called “friends”, the lefties, dearie me. Half the time their heid’s are so far up their own backsides, they can’t see daylight. The love to carp, snipe and run down the yes side, that they claim to support, but only on their terms. The rest of us are wrong. As the auld saying goes, “They’re a’ oot a step, but oor Jock”.

      Realistically, what have any of them achieved. Some of them got elected to the Scottish Parliament, then did their usual act. Fell out amongst themselves, then fall apart into mair wee carping groups. Like I said, a waste of space, and more importantly, a waste of a vote.

      I’ve donated to Stu’s fundraiser against Kez, Wee Ginger Dug and IScot, and if need be, I’ll do it again. These are the folk at the forefront of the fight, they should, and must be supported. Happy to help out guys, any time. Good luck Kendo, I hope you get all the support that you need.

      Nice to see JDMan and xsticks again, Hi fella’s.

    38. cearc says:

      If you’ve not seen the print edition of iScot. Then get one. It is a very high quality magazine.

      Never been much of a magazine buyer (only ever subscribed to one before) but bought it at the beginning because Ken was doing it. I was bowled over and love it. Diverse articles, great photography, lots of contributors that you probably know of and some you don’t. A short story, crosswords, sudoko, lots of stuff.

      Of course a hard copy can be left around for others to see and being such a smart looking magazine they are more likely to be picked up and browsed.

    39. MJT says:

      I was following the many back and forths on twitter re: Wings, The (infamous) Tweet about the Mundells and the new Common Space article from the Tie guy.

      Billy Bragg has that line about when politicians all become careerists. I’d always taken it on face value and never thought too much about why politicians all become careerists. Nowadays, in Scotland, when money is tight for so many and it’s tough to make a living for scribes, musicians, artists, and ordinary folks…i get why folks become careerists. Gotta make some bank to get some security…gotta keep the cashflow going.

      It’s not easy to make a living from the life of your mind, heart or soul. Eveyone needs dem clicks, dem gigs, dem bookings, dem comissions. Gotta eat, feed the kids, pay the rent, get-got-keep a mortgage going.

      It’s weird that Indy is a niche, even though there’s 45% of us in Jockistan. Weird whats going on at the moment. recently I’ve been thinking Indy is way off in the distance. We’re too fractured. We eat each other, but we don’t eat ourselves fitter.

      We used to play risk a lot years ago. And i remember how when push came to shove, you’d have to take all of your armies, bar one, from all of your countries to fight and defend the front where the battle/confict was most intense, if you didn’t you lost. They do that. When it’s time for the establishment to get efficient and optimal, they stop everything else and they unite, work together, make a concerted push, on all major fronts: and they tend to win, often in a photo finish.

      It’s one thing to criticize, another thing to wish to destroy. If we are all one, and we are, what are we doing? We have a limited number of bullets. a limited number of people who will fight with us, at this point, and we need more, we always need more. We can and will never have the reach that the estblishment has. This must inform our strategy, but it doesn’t, in effect.

      There are people who need to get a room, or a few rooms, or a hall, or a few halls – often. Taking shit to the twitter streets, the online media streets, drumming up the fervour of yer followers, instead of maybe making personal contact with the folks, entities one has (profound) disagreement with…I dunno, I’m new fashioned and new fashion is talk it through, see what you have in common and what separates and work from there. Critcisize, fuck aye, but seeking to destroy…I dunno…

      Reminds me of Carver’s poetry about Bukowski where he writes from inside Bukowski’s head. I see a lot of typists, but i don’t see any writers. I see a fuck load of typists who are armchair strategists, but i don’t see any writers who are strategists. But i do see a lot of typists who are careerists. And I wish they all had their next years rent up front, cos it might help us get out the gutter. Cos from this gutter we are not looking at the stars. Unless it’s them stars you see when you get sucker punched.

    40. Justin Edwards says:

      I joined Bella Caledonia not long ago but I left it last night after reading an article about how Wings is a mad outsider and pro-Indys should support Kezia Dugdale in the court case because Wings was mean to her. I didn’t just read it and leave, I engaged with the thread. By the end of that I was disgusted, so I left. If that was a representative cross-sectiom of the independence movement, Scotland is SCREWED. Folks, I’m a Kiwi with a Scottish gf and kids. I’m in this for them but let me tell you, I was late to the party and I would’ve been lost without Wings. In the run-up to the referendum, or the elections, or any other time, Wings is reliably on point with smarts and stats.
      Kezia and the rest need to learn to button their lip and have some dignity. That’s why I left Bella Caledonia. It’s unacceptable to support her and wring your hands about how her poor feelings must be hurt. She has a job to do and she’s never yet done it. Wings has a job to do and actually does it. I know whose example I’ll be following and who I’m backing in court, because I’m not a coward and independence doesn’t happen by arguing about irrelevant nonsense.

    41. Flower of Scotland says:

      Yes, forgot to buy this months issue. Thanks Wings, it’s done now.

    42. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Heard reports all through the ref campaign that Gross Reer was a divisive and unhelpful element in the office. Thought maybe he had grown up.

    43. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Simple stuff dudes:

      Ignore the Splitters and careerist pontificators.

      Eyes on the Indy Prize.

      Establishment bricking it more and more on a daily basis now as Brexit continues to unfold and more eyes are opened to the Omnishables it is going to be, and how both the UK Govt is out of it’s depth in the negotiations and that the UKOK Media is Complicit in defending them.

      Any threat to The Establishment will be defeated or nullified (history shows us this).

      And as if on cue.

      The ‘Splitters’ are now coming to the fore, but keep the heid folks.

      Take heart, we are winning and they have very little left in their armoury.

      That is why they are becoming more desperate and overt.

      They know that time is running out quickly and can’t beat us.

      Only we can beat ourselves.

      Manufactured infighting by a 5th Column is a classic Divide and Conquer tactic.

      The UKOK Establishment invented ‘Divide and Conquer’.

      People like Boyd, Haggerty and Sillars appear to be more interested in Boyd, Haggerty and Sillars than Independence.

      Why?

      Greer and the Greens?

      They had their chance as far as I’m concerned.

      As @Lenny Hartley says at 10:33 am, they rode in on the Pro Indy, Pro Progressive Society band wagon but now appear to be self serving chancers look at OBFA, Greer attacking Pro Indy publications etc. etc.

      It detracts from Wightmans Land Reform Ideas.

      I suspect we have witnessed the Political Zenith of the Greens in a Scotland in the UK.

      They will not be getting as many ‘lent’ votes next time around.

      Wings ‘o’ Justice and iScot getting cash today.

    44. @Andrew Davidson says:
      29 July, 2017 at 11:48 am

      Sorry I am running out of time on my computer
      session.

      I don’t disagree with what you say.
      No one expects the greens and socialists
      To support SNP policies, fine if they
      support independence.

      But this constant sniping by some of those
      greens and socialists can only damage the
      cause of the independence movement.

      Which would certainly delight the unionist
      opponents.

    45. colin alexander says:

      @Peter McCulloch

      The SNP is not a one policy party. They have lots of policies nowadays for administering WM devolution.

      Only one policy is independence. Likewise the Greens. They are political rivals, political OPPONENTS. There wouldn’t be an SNP Govt or an indyref if the Greens had said no to indyref and the SNP budget.

      When others in YES wanted a joint pro-indy ticket, the SNP chased them. It’s the SNP way or the highway. Take the SNP Whip or piss off, basically.

      ——————————————–

      If the SNP want 100% support from independence supporters, then they should go 100% for independence: a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence.

      Simple as that. But they don’t.

      “People won’t vote for a one issue party: Independence,” So I’m told on here by defenders of the “vote SNP for an indyref” policy. You are entitled to your opinion.

      So, what’s an indyref then? A vote on one issue.

      The counter argument to that is: but the SNP could lose power and that won’t get us independence either.

      It would make people choose: vote SNP and get indy or vote against them and get a Tory Scot Govt.

      No more of: Well, you can vote SNP, but you can support the SNP without supporting indy. Vote SNP for free personal care for pensioners, and free bus passes etc and you can vote NO to indy.

      Don’t get me wrong, I like the SNP have those policies, but they should be policies we have as an independent country, not instead of.

      The SNP should not be offering indy as a pick n mix optional extra.

      That’s my opinion.

    46. heedtracker says:

      I take the money that the BBC want for their “licence” and split it up for these subs, across a range campaigning too. There is a lot but every little helps.

      So keep hiking your fees, beeb gimps:D

    47. heedtracker says:

      The kind of English media I used to buy, The Guardian and the Orange Order, BetterTogether. Graun’s like the heart of toryboy darkness today, or rather its world famous progressive liberal schtick really is a just another tory sham. Scotland just does not exist for Graun, certainly not Scottish democracy, but the bits they like certainly do.

      http://archive.is/jOvNh

    48. mogabee says:

      I like Wings. I like Wee Ginger Dug. I like Scot Goes Pop.

      I like iScot and have a copy every month. Donated ‘coz they’re worth it!

      I do not like Ross Greer. I met him at my first SNP conference where he was part of a stall for YES. I asked him a question, he answered with condescension and that started my first and last interaction with him.

    49. colin alexander says:

      @Graham King

      Agreed. Incontinence is something that should not be used to insult people.

      It is a distressing and embarrassing medical condition, not a political issue.

    50. Sinky says:

      IScot is a great Mag and good to leave in waiting rooms etc.

      Another Union Dividend as UK Universities announce a massive Pension Fund shortfall up NINE BILLION POUNDS from last year due to poor investments. In England there is talk of increasing student tuition fees to pay for it.

      And to think those Unionist Academics claimed Scotland couldn’t run her own affairs and would have a huge deficit.

    51. galamcennalath says:

      The Greens disagreeing with specific SNP policies is fine. It’s politics and it’s democracy. In an iScotland I hope and expect to see more politics and democracy!

      However, above and beyond politics and policies is the Grand Constitutional Question of our time – should Scotland be an independent country? Supporting a YES answer are parties, groups, and individuals. Heaven knows we have legions of enemies supporting NO. We really must be wary of in fighting.

      What pisses me off is that the time and means for thrashing out the type of iScotland we want is after Indy and via democratic institutions, and NOT NOW! Everyone and every group has a different vision and different ideas on how to achieve their vision. However right now the measure of who should be listened to and who should be backed is how successful have they been on moving us down the road so far.

    52. Graeme says:

      “colin alexander says:
      29 July, 2017 at 12:56 pm

      @Graham King

      Agreed. Incontinence is something that should not be used to insult people.

      It is a distressing and embarrassing medical condition, not a political issue.”

      Sometimes this political correctness gets so tedious

      For god sake Colin everybody knows Stu didn’t intent to insult people with incontinence issues

      get a fucking grip

      Graeme

    53. Neil Anderson says:

      Have been thinking about subscribing to iScot for some time now. Didn’t realise how urgent it was. Subscription for full year done.

    54. gus1940 says:

      Given that the recent Wings Appeal and the Dugdale Appeal were oversubscribed in particular the former what would fellow Wingers have to say if some of the sum collected was to be deiverted to ensure the continued survival of iScot.

    55. Robert Peffers says:

      @Graeme says: 29 July, 2017 at 1:26 pm:

      “Sometimes this political correctness gets so tedious
      For god sake Colin everybody knows Stu didn’t intent to insult people with incontinence issues
      get a fucking grip”.

      While your observations are perfectly correct, Graeme. The whole point of Colin’s agenda is to disrupt threads. Colin doesn’t give a damn what the subject matter is – just as long as he can stick his oar in and divert from the original subject matter.

      Which is why I now reluctantly do exactly what Colin wants
      to achieve and I’m replying to you. There are getting to be more diversions by Colin than original Rev Stu content on Wings.

      It is best to just ignore such disruptive diversions.

    56. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Don’t worry @Graeme says at 1:26 pm

      Regarding Incontinence,

      The Man at C&A is just taking the piss.

      😉

    57. MeDuff says:

      I`m sorry but Iscot and National are not going to get us towards independence until they start reproducing the eye-opening articles displayed on WOS.
      I, like many other indy supporters and SNP members of many many years are a tad weary of the carpet slipper approach to independence and are wondering where the passion and bite will come.
      I have been supporting independence since before some of WOS posters were born and no one is going to stifle my right to criticise the SNP or any publication when I believe it is justified.

    58. heedtracker says:

      colin alexander says:
      29 July, 2017 at 12:56 pm
      @Graham King

      Agreed. Incontinence is something that should not be used to insult people.

      Colin you’re an odd lad but it is a thing you know.

      http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/watch-stephen-colbert-visit-trump-pee-pee-tape-hotel-room-w493446

      Another Saturday BBC r4 any tory questions ends with another show void of anything Scots or SNP stuff at all, again, as per.

      Stuff is happening here in the BBC region of Scotland though.

      https://www.snp.org/10_ways_we_re_protecting_scotland_s_environment_tackling_climate_change

      https://www.snp.org/scotland_is_a_world_leader

      Scotland is a world leader
      By Liam Furby, 09/04/17
      Scotland is a progressive nation, brimming with innovation and confident of its role in the world. Today, Scotland is at the forefront of tackling some of the biggest issues of the 21st century.”

      Its just that our chums in another country, who think they own Scotland as a mere region, do not want you to know about any of it.

      I added that last bit:D

    59. colin Alexander says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker -witty.

      _____________________________

      @Graeme fair do’s. I’m not gonnae go on about it.

      —————————————
      @ Robert Peffers

      I enjoy some of your posts, and sometimes you have good points to make, so I’m not trying to put you off in any way.

      I would just like to suggest you stop the personal attacks on people’s characters, cos you disagree with their comments.

      That is more disruptive than the initial comment.

    60. colin Alexander says:

      @Heedtracker, thanks for the links. Very informative.

      You are good at sniffing out the stories haha.

    61. Bill McLean says:

      Just taken out an annual subscription to iScot and ditched Common Space from my reading list – time some of their contributors grew up!

    62. Bill McLean says:

      Just taken out an annual subscription to iScot. Ditched Common Space from my reading list – time some of their contributors grew up!

    63. MajorBloodnok says:

      I’ve just seen the cover of the latest edition of iScot magazine.

      If any of you are affected by the issues raised by this image (steady) please feel free to write in to the resident agony aunt who will promptly ignore you.

    64. Almannysbunnet says:

      I’m ashamed to admit that I have kept every single copy of iScot from day one. Had good intentions of leaving them lying around but just can’t do it. Pure quality. Sad that so few people have heard of it. I’m going to start scanning the cover each month and promote it on Facebook, twitter etc, that should reach about 50 people 🙂 They say you never miss something until it’s gone. Don’t let this happen to iScot.

    65. clipper says:

      Just sent donation via paypal to iScot. Never read or even seen the mag anywhere but have seen enough glowing comments on here and elsewhere praising it I reckon it must be worth saving, which I hope it is.

      How much do they actually need? Doesn’t seem to say on the page, just something about £9,596. Is that what’s needed or just what’s been raised so far?

    66. David says:

      We are seeing this all over western world now.

      You cant have some goal or movement without it needing a ‘liberal’ or ‘socialist’ or ‘feminist’ or ‘LBQTXYZ’ or ‘trans’ or ‘insert minority here’ subdivisions whining about a lack of representation and what they dont like and how aggrieved they are in their Oppression Olympics. In fact one of my beef’s with the SNP is their over-pandering to that utter crap.

      I cant be arsed with most of the more socialist minded (largely clueless imo) indy supporters views, but they are on my team.

      I got banned from the Bella comments thread for asking how we can be living in such a ‘patriarchal’ society considering most leaders in the UK are actually female and the rest are hardly masculine John Wayne type males. Needless to say i didnt shed any tears about it.

      These people muddy the waters and make the arguments less clear and to the point, and in fact put a lot of otherwise agreeable people off

    67. Liam says:

      Ken500 says:
      29 July, 2017 at 10:27 am

      Lying politicians should be taken to Court. If that is the only way to stop them. The more the better. People are sick of their lies. Even through average sizes ladies, not fat useless lesbians disagree. The fake indignation. In case they are held to account.

      The Courts are finding judgements again May’s illegal Gov every day.

      ‘fat useless lesbians’?

      Can we all agree that a person’s sexual orientation should not be used (even obliquely) as an insult, or used in circumstances where it could be wilfully construed as an insult?

      Especially at the moment.

    68. K1 says:

      It’s ‘all about Colin’.

      Don’t you get it yet? ‘You’ make it about ‘you’. You make it personal ‘to you’. Then you complain when others challenge your ‘personal’ opinions that ‘you’ post on a public forum.

      It’s not up to you to control who responds to what anyone says on this forum Colin. Go get your own blog and play at ‘big daddy’ on that.

      You immediately in you first comment on this thread took the subject matter, nodded in the direction of it then launched into your true agenda:

      ‘I’ve watched others subjected to personal insults. Intimidation, bullying. Evidence of ‘personal insults’, names of ‘others subjected’. ‘Intimidation, bullying’, again please show your evidence of these behaviours on Wings?

      If people disagree with others’ comments on WoS, skip them; decide in your head “that’s mince” or make an argument against the comment; give your side of the debate. As I stated, you are not the moderator on Wings Colin, it isn’t up to you to ‘direct’ others on who or what they can respond to on Wings, and it certainly isn’t up to you to ‘define’ the terms of those engagements’.

      Responding by slagging the person, not the comment, is just a waste of everyone’s time and achieves nothing.’ And yet here you are, accusing, slagging ‘unnamed’ ‘persons’ on Wings, with no evidence whatsoever of ‘intimidation, ‘bullying’ or ‘personal insults’. Instead we’ve to take ‘your’ word for all these terrible behaviours taking place on Wings?

      So it’s okay for you to insinuate that ‘unnamed’ commenters are at fault on the grounds of ‘I say so’, no one is allowed to challenge another’s comments unless ‘you’ decide whether the comment ‘is just a waste of everyone’s time’ and you’ll be the sole judge based on the criteria ‘you’ve’ decided upon: evidence free bullying, intimidation and personal insults that ‘you’ and ‘you’ alone have watched others subjected to’?

      How come no one else is seeing these awful exchanges taking place on Wings?

      Here’s two wurdz for you to ponder Colin: Fuck off.

      Now, try to work out if this commenter is actually responding to what you’ve posted Colin, or whether it’s ‘insulting’, ‘bullying’ or ‘intimidation’ that is at play in the response?

      I think we can all ‘guess’ where you’ll land.

      Time to draw a line under all of this

      —————————————————————————– : a line.

    69. K1 says:

      Same here Almany…can’t let them go…they are too good. Have to re check when ma subscription is up…can’t remember when we took it out though.

      Ken? Any way I can find out?

    70. heedtracker says:

      ‘fat useless lesbians’?

      Can we all agree that a person’s sexual orientation should not be used (even obliquely) as an insult, or used in circumstances where it could be wilfully construed as an insult?

      Especially at the moment.

      No that’s wrong too. Imagine the yoon rage if FM Sturgeon signed off for the hols with,

      https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/880830019253227521?lang=en-gb

      Reality of tory nutters like this is issues, why has she only had one MSP constituency surgery this year?

    71. Confused says:

      I was wondering what all this was about, so I checked –

      common space article, jordan daly – the gist of which is

      – “we should support kezias right to lie about WOS as she is a lesbian”

      – do not read this article, it is the worst kind of self righteous word-salad-social-studies-jargon you will come across; if you try to understand it logically, your brain may melt

      the PC-idiots destroyed the old left, the real left and replaced it with something which is nothing more than “the leftwing of neoliberalism” – do not let them destroy scottish nationalism – do not let the arguments for an independent scotland degenerate into a vicious tirade about whether or not, an independent or unionist scotland, will or will not, have more or less tranny bathrooms …

      – as for those twats over at “radical scotland” they need to watch that monty python sketch about the judeans peoples front … or was it the peoples front of judea

      – be very careful stu, you have attracted the ire of the LGBTQIAZP(?whatever)-“community”, who are the new Elect of God, and are allowed to parade in the streets even more than the Orangemen

    72. I am commited to Scottish freedom but as I have stated before the SNP are not aggressive enough when it comes to defending itself against the lies the unionist MPs and the media tell about them also personal attacks on them the courts are there to be used to sue these liars but have never been used why??? I mean N.S. Had an open and shut case with Frenchgate but did nothing and that’s just one instance I do not understand why this is allowed to go on where is the the fighting spirit we want to see we don’t want to go on meekly accepting every thing they throw at us it’s like a party fighting for freedom with no real fight in it after all there is no point in complaining because the unionists are only doing what they are lying etc, because we allow to happen with impunity

    73. Liam says:

      No that’s wrong too. Imagine the yoon rage if FM Sturgeon signed off for the hols with,

      https://twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/880830019253227521?lang=en-gb

      Reality of tory nutters like this is issues, why has she only had one MSP constituency surgery this year?

      Not quite sure I understand what you are saying there, the fact that Ruth the Mooth has only had one MSP constituency surgery this year is a mtter for public outrage. That’s not doing her day job.

      Who she fancies is none of our business.

    74. cearc says:

      MajorBloodnok,

      You could just put a large bottle of smelling salts on your page for those that need them!

      Hilarious and outrageous it is. I have only seen it on screen so far, not ‘in the flesh’ as it were.

    75. colin Alexander says:

      @K1

      I’m not off topic. Slagging pro-indy supporters is part of the article.

      But,Ta for the rant. I got a laugh at that.

      That’s right: I am not a moderator. My suggestions that we try to discuss the comments instead of abusive behaviour towards each other is my suggestion.

      Abusive people who just want to use vulgarity and obscenities towards others are not forced to comply.

    76. heedtracker says:

      That’s right: I am not a moderator. My suggestions that we try to discuss the comments instead of abusive behaviour towards each other is my suggestion.

      Yes but Colin you do it. You just do it the sneaky way. That’s all fine though. You and Rock make a great/dafty team.

    77. Capella says:

      I have subscribed to iScot since it started. It’s brilliant. I recommend it to anyone. If you buy the print version you can also access it digitally which is sometimes handy when travelling about. It would be a great shame if it folded.

    78. Legerwood says:

      Incontinence has two dictionary definitions. The first relates to the medical condition the second to a lack of self-restraint e.g “the emotional incontinence of modern society”.

      Suspect it is the latter of the two that applies here.

    79. colin Alexander says:

      Well, I hope youse are proud of yersels. Youse yins that called me a Unionist.

      My girlfriend has now bought me a set of Union Jack mugs and Union Jack socks.

      Not amused, but she’s having a right auld laugh.

    80. Sarah says:

      @clipper 3.05 – iscot needs £20,000. His last tweet says he is overwhelmed by the response but can’t update his total so far until Sunday because he is visiting grandchildren and away from computer connection.

      I take it that there has been a surge in donations, subs etc since this article by the Rev [God bless him].

      I took out a sub in the first place on the Rev’s recommendation. I’m not a magazine reader usually but I enjoy iscot’s range of articles and the political laughs provided by Major Bloodnok and Mons Meg! Plus the puzzles which I can usually do, unlike the National’s Sudoku – should I complain and slag the National off because of this?

      I occasionally leave the iscot at the doctor’s but it doesn’t seem to hang around – I hope it goes to a good home.

    81. Dunks says:

      Subscribed to WGD, SNP, any Wings fundraser and now subscribed to iScot also.

    82. colin Alexander says:

      IScot magazine is not available as an eMagazine with Glasgow Libraries, so I’ve asked if they would add it to the list of available titles.

      Maybe other people could also suggest it to their local libraries or offer their back copies?

    83. Liz Rannoch says:

      I’ve been buying the iScot since the beginning of the year, but in the last couple of months I’ve been unable to get it. This is just the kick up the bahookie I’ve needed to subscribe – monthly magazine version. It’s a beautiful magazine, please donate/subscribe.

      O/T Could I also use the thread to let folks know about a march and rally in my neck of the woods – Dunfermline on the 26 August. Please see:

      https://www.facebook.com/events/469563306769422/

      Haven’t heard of Forward as one but heh it’s a rally! This sort of thing rarely happens here so I’m wiggling like a puppy!

      As I’m not on Twitter/Facebook please feel free to post far and wide – thanks.

    84. mike d says:

      Anyone taking out a subscription for iscot magazine won’t be disappointed. Great articles,well presented.

    85. colin Alexander says:

      “Today in this era of fake news, we ask you to support the quality, trusted journalism of HeraldScotland.com.”

      Thought this would give youse a laugh while we are discussing quality publications.

    86. Meindevon says:

      Can’t believe this magazine is struggling. It is such a good read. I have been subscribing since the free Scottish passport holder was on offer. Couldn’t resist. Even that was quality.

      Although I am down here in DDD, I have several Scottish friends (some you wouldn’t know we’re Scottish) and others you would. Funnily enough it’s the ones that have been down here since toddling age that think Indy is the way forward and see Westminster for what it is.

      Like someone said above I am reluctant to leave copies around as it is a bit wasted down here. I do pass them on to these interested friends who think it’s great. I will endeavour to see if they might get their own subscription. Occasionally I’ll buy ‘The Scot’ magazine when home and I leave them in the doctors to promote Scotland in general.

    87. Lenny Hartley says:

      Colin Alexander do IScot get a licence fee from Glasgow Libraries every time someone reads the “E” version?

    88. K1 says:

      That’s alright Colin, adults do get the nuance though…I wasn’t aware Wings was in need of suggestions in how to conduct ourselves on the forum, especially from a hypocrite like yourself?

      Take your own advice Colin, stop sneakily attacking others on here with no evidence to back up your hysterical ‘abuse’ claims…eh? They are unfounded, in essence you are lying.

    89. Cactus says:

      iScot Magazine ~ “for those o independent mind”

      Digital Edition:

      £2.99 Per Issue
      http://www.pocketmags.com/iscot

      Single Issue, or 12 Months Access

      «««««««««««««

      Print Edition:

      £5.99
      Monthly
      £3.99 plus £2.00
      http://www.iscot.scot/subscribe

      for delivery throughout UK + P&P

      «««««««««««««

      Print Edition:

      £71.88
      Annually

      For our full annual subscription

      «««««««««««««

      “The Undefeated”

      £250.00
      Signed framed print

      delivered to any UK postal address

      Simply make the donation via http://www.paypal.me/iscot

      «««««««««««««

      Kendomacaroonbar is away for the weekend… let’s give Ken and the team at iScot something to celebrate for when they return, do it for Scotland.

      August looks excellent.

    90. JimD says:

      It is beautifully produced and the writing is excellent. A broad range of articles, not just political topics. My missus is English and enjoys reading it as much as me.

    91. colin Alexander says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      The Public Lending Right scheme run by the British Library means authors can get a fee for books borrowed in libraries.

      I believe they need to register for the scheme.

      I don’t know the answer to your question, but can only presume the publishers of magazine titles that are available receive a fee too.

      Of course, if you can afford it, the best way to support iScot magazine is to take out a subscription, or drop hints to family or friends that you would love that as a gift. A wee change from socks or bath salts as a present.

    92. Rock says:

      In my view, The National’s support for independence is fake.

      Its only purpose is to milk gullible independence supporters, without having the slightest positive effect to the Yes or SNP vote.

      It heavily promoted the Greens and RISE to deny the SNP a majority.

      With zero overhead costs, its sales help to keep its elder sister, the poisonous Herald, alive.

      The “major international publishing corporation behind it” is happy to keep it out of sight of unionist readers, knowing that its target audience of diehard independence supporters will make an effort to find it.

      It has had ample opportunity to publish hard hitting WOS headlines but hardly ever does.

      Bella Caledonia which is now part of The National is very much anti WOS and anti SNP.

    93. heedtracker says:

      Rock says:

      You forgot your Truth Always thingee Rock.

      It’s not Truth Always then, is it Rock, you duh.

      Its only Truth Always, if you use Always, Always.

      Or are you actually a salesman for this company, Rock.

      https://www.always.co.uk/en-gb

      Bollox Always, Rock.

    94. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Well done to Paula Rose and Brave for organising the picnic in Eglinton Park today.

      Brilliant to see so many turn up, and you could almost feel the batteries being recharged. Great stuff, and a proper antidote to the negative pish we’ve all been bombarded with lately.

      More power to ye’s all, and please keep an eye on Quarantine for imminent details of next Glasgow Friends of WOS social.

    95. Phronesis says:

      iScot and The National are excellent reads and should be supported. It speaks volumes that Scotland has only one pro-indy daily newspaper and it is vital that its reach is widened because anyone who wants to hear the alternative truths of Scotland’s potential will be perplexed when they consider the juxtaposition of meaning from headlines of the pro indy National and the imperious pro-union MSM headlines.

      Logically, one begins to question why Scotland is uniquely incapable of governing itself and making big political decisions. According to UKOK Scotland is a subordinate region of the disunited kingdom and should not regard itself as a country-how else can this most unequal of partnerships be explained. All written text in the pro-union MSM is underlined by that ill-informed belief.

      Therefore it is incumbent on the YES movement and all those who support Scotland’s right to autonomy to re-define the narrative of Scotland as too wee, poor etc. Support for the fledgling pro-indy MSM is one way to achieve that. Providing factual links to informative topics on Scotland’s capabilities on this site is another- and there are many contributors on WoS who do just that.

    96. Macart says:

      Yeah, its getting a bit tedious being told by some folk whether you’re ‘right on’ or ‘radical’ enough to be a supporter of self determination.

      I don’t really get involved in such discussions or arguments. They are, by and large, completely counterproductive. The YES movement is a broad church. All parties and no parties. All levels of society. All creeds. All points of origin. All of us together. Natural born and new Scot. It’s kinda what makes you a country. A government willing to govern for all (not simply a demographic), THAT is what makes them fit for ‘the day job’.

      What makes you a YES voter?

      Last I checked, it’s the belief that the peoples of Scotland are best placed to make decisions affecting the peoples of Scotland. Self determination. You don’t need to come from any particular part of the political or societal spectrum. You just need to believe in that simple principle.

      Tolerance, inclusion, belief in your inalienable right to choose your own governance and above all caring. That’ll do for me.

    97. HandandShrimp says:

      Well done to Paula Rose and Brave for organising the picnic in Eglinton Park today.

      I really have to dip into the off topic area more often :/

    98. Liz g says:

      Macart @ 7.15

      Right on man….em well Left on man…. em well aw feck it.

      Well said sir!

    99. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Macart –

      Hear hear.

      That’s why today’s getthegither was such a tonic – we don’t waste time splitting hairs over *anything*. It’s about reminding ourselves, by just being together, that we’ve a huge common aim. Nothing can or will deflect us.

      Nothing.

      All ye cheese&onion rolls take note – you may just be doing your ‘job’, but you’ll have to get an awful lot better at it if you’re going to present anything more than a minor annoyance.

    100. Macart says:

      @Ian B

      Wish I could have been there, but funds being what they are… travel anywhere is a bit of a luxury about now.

      Anyroads, hope ye had a Lambrini or two and good old chin wag. 🙂

    101. Jim Arnott says:

      I have been a subscriber to iScot from day one. My wife and I couldn’t bear it if this magazine folded. To help, I will increase my subscription to two print copies. I will keep one for my own collection and decide after discussion with others how to use the other copy to best effect. I will also throw in a wee donation as well. If you support Independence, please consider supporting iScot magazine. It’s a great read and would grace any coffee table.

    102. colin Alexander says:

      @Rock

      I like some of the articles in The National, but knowing it’s a Newsquest title same as the indy-bashing Herald puts me off.

      It’s a bit like stopping eating Tunnocks Tea Cakes after indyref and buying Tunnocks Caramel Wavers instead.

    103. starlaw says:

      Used to subscribe to The Scots Magazine for years, but stopped in 2014.
      Today I just took out an annual subscription for iscot, I like the look of it, and feel it will serve Scotland well.

    104. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Oh Mr Peffers, you keep my pecker up so you do.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      I’m the voter, it’s my money and I choose to spend it on Independence anybody who says differently can do one
      My Daddy always said if you want a nail hammered in you get yourself a big hammer and hit it
      The SNP are the big hammer, most everybody else in Holyrood got a free lunch because of an over generous dodgy voting system so they don’t get my money or my vote so why the hell should I pay attention to folk nobody voted for telling me or anybody else they’re smarter than the First Minister who occasionaly writes for and supports the National and I.Scot magazine

      Particularly a wee new born Green person practically nobody ever heard of
      They can shut their cringing faces about who the Yes movement supports or doesn’t support

      Damn bunch of nonentities think if STV or the BBC puts them on the Telly for 5 minutes it makes them bloody Elvis

    106. Stuart Hood says:

      Us ganging aff the rails for one dippy-erse comment is no really helping either. If he’s at this aw the time, fair play, otherwise we come across as even bigger diddies than we think he is.

      iZenScot, freens 🙂

    107. Shinty says:

      Cannot praise iScot Magazine enough.

      I’ve bought it more or less from the start (when available in my local) and last year took out an annual subscription.

      Quality magazine with great articles.

      I’m only sorry I cannot afford the ‘Undefeated’ framed picture at this time. It’s on my wish list, would look lovely in my wee shop and piss off a few of our hard Yoons.

    108. Sarah says:

      O/T There’s a very interesting comment on McCains Mutiny at 7.56 p.m. by pool9,about the current state of USA political system. It has worrying parallels with our Westminster state of affairs.

    109. Cactus says:

      This is like poker.. playing blind.

      Who knows what the final fund(s) will be.

      iScot.
      WoJ.

      Ahm still out looking for Fred…

      Tis warm out tonight..

      Fred!

    110. harry mcaye says:

      Rock, did Callum Baird’s article not give you food for thought?

    111. Capella says:

      O/T Just watched “After Bannockburn”, a BBC documentary. So they do know something about Scottish history after all, botched attempt though it is.

      They quote a letter written by Robert the Bruce written in 1307 but only discovered in the 1950s. Where on earth has it been all these long centuries? BBC doesn’t say.

      Of course, the campaign by Edward Bruce to free Ireland from the English fails in the end. So no doubt that is why “after Bannockburn” focuses on that, rather than, say, the Declaration of Arbroath or the Treaty of Northampton.

      Maybe they deal with that in the next episode.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGUUGzo4K6Q

    112. Cactus says:

      Love Scotland.

      Scotland.

      LSX.

    113. heedtracker says:

      Graun tonight, and then some from last month of UKOK rule. What’s the one constant in all of these as usual catastrofucks? Scots voted against all of it.

      Sadiq Khan Friday 28 July 2017 21.00 BST

      Labour can stop Brexit – but only with fresh vote, says Sadiq Khan
      London mayor raises hopes of remainers, arguing pledge in manifesto or second referendum would both be legitimate

      and

      Student finance
      Graduate anger mounts over ‘nightmare’ Student Loans Company
      Our story last week about the SLC quadrupling someone’s interest rate sparked a new wave of complaints

      or

      Tuition fees
      Poorest students will finish university with £57,000 debt, says IFS
      Thinktank says replacing maintenance grants in England hits students from lower-income households hardest

      The SUN

      STUDENT LOANS CHIEF IN ‘BULLY AXE’ Student Loans Company boss suspended from £200k job over claims he mistreated staff
      Chief executive Steve Lamey was temporarily axed on Tuesday pending a probe into “concerns which have been raised” about his management style

    114. Cactus says:

      Heading HOME soon.

      Ahm actually doing it.

      Drinking things…

      Aye.

      When I return I will ask you a question fine Wingers.

      LSX.

    115. Cactus says:

      It’s Saturday and Scotland is fuckin’ brilliant!

    116. Ann says:

      Know about iScot, but sadly never thought about buying one. Alk change though. Bought the July edition for a look. Then look at subscribing.

    117. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      colin Alexander at 7.44

      What a silly comment. Newsquest is a printing organisation that publishes lots of titles as long as they pay for themselves and make a profit. That is all.
      The editorial position of the publications are not Newsquest’s concern and we should be very grateful they are prepared to publish an indy title. No other group does.
      Are you suggesting nobody should buy the Dundee Courier because the same publisher publishes the Beano?

    118. Vince Guz says:

      Annual Subscription completed Rev – thanks.

    119. colin alexander says:

      http://archive.is/OGfnj

      How’s this for quality? Got all the anti-indy cliches.

      Does it no just make you feel good inside you stopped buying this rubbish?

      Classic anti-indy propaganda – it’s almost got it all. If you wanted to pick fault, I suppose they left out the bit about GERS and Greece. But, nobody is perfect, even propagandists for the Union.

      “no more public cash should be spent on the “nationalists’ toxic obsession with wrenching Scotland out of the United Kingdom” it says.

      How many pejoratives can you squeeze into one sentence? And I missed out “outrageous” and “shocking” which is what Labour and the Tories called it, according to the article.

      That’s what happens when they print the Broons and Oor Wullie in black and white only. You never realise that’s Union Jacks hinging up in the background and they’re aw dressed in Orange in the July editions.

    120. Meg merrilees says:

      Capella

      My curiosity was aroused so I investigated your ‘After Bannockburn’ docudrama.

      It was a BBC Northern Ireland production made in 2015.

      I would guess that explains some of the interpretation they have put on events and also the lack of detail concerning the Scottish side of things from the Bruce/Comyn struggle at the altar onwards.

      O/T
      I had the dubious honour of a ‘procession’ past my house this morning with flutes tooting and drums banging. Called the Passchendaele Parade so it was.

      I can think of quieter ways to commemorate that sad, horrific episode in our ‘British’ history.

    121. Meg merrilees says:

      Colin

      Did I not read somewhere that the GE17 has cost the UK tax payer £145 million?

      If so, 22,000 is pretty small change.

      Wouldn’t expect Jacquie Baillie to think like that tho…

      I can recommend the iScot magazine. have received it since the beginning. Excellent publication. Please support the fund raising.

    122. Grouse Beater says:

      Your weekend supplement: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-ifl

    123. Meg merrilees says:

      Just read Angela Haggerty’s article in the Sunday herald re the possible court case between Wings v Dugdale.

      Basically she thinks the Rev should back down:

      If Campbell has any sense, for himself and the cause he professes to believe in, he’ll de-escalate this. But given that he’s set up a crowdfunder to cover his legal costs, it seems unlikely. If this proceeds, it will be a dirty, divisive distraction from the issues the Yes movement should be focusing on.
      Doesn’t it take two to tango?

      I would argue that you could say the same to Ms. Dugdale.
      Shouldn’t she be ‘getting on with the day job’?
      Actually, it would have been more appropriate for Ms. Davidson to have made these accusations as it does concern two of her Conservative colleagues.

      I wonder who/what is really behind this fiasco. Who is putting Kezia up to it?
      I smell a smell.

    124. Meg merrilees says:

      Grouse Beater

      If they can put solar panels on the roofs of trains in India can’t we design electric cars with solar panels on their roofs?

      Might work some of the time in Scotland – not just now though!

    125. Cactus says:

      HOME (show me ra wae tae go…)

      Question is…

      The year is now, the year is 2017.

      1) Name 5 things that you LOVE about Scotland..?
      2) Name 5 things that you LOVE about the United Kingdom..?

      THAT question can can be switched, dependent on the company.

      Thrill me…

    126. ScottishPsyche says:

      Haggerty there saying don’t defend yourself because they’ll bring out all the other bad stuff they’ve been saying about you and you’ll only have yourself to blame. Oh, and you’re not that important but you are important enough that everyone is piling in to shut you down.

      What a cesspool of stinking pish these journos wallow in. No wonder she has trouble sleeping at night.

    127. Cactus says:

      “SO ahm comin’, ahm comin’, for ma head is bending low, I hear dem poor old angels voices calling.. poor, old, Joe” + hammers.

      This time next year, Scotland will be very Yes!

      It’s Sunday.. once again.

      Almost iScot August.

      Yey!!!

    128. Az says:

      @ Cactus 12:44am

      Ouch!! Question 2 hurts ma heid, ah cannae hink ae even wan 🙂

    129. artyhetty says:

      Re;Meg. Merriless@12.24am

      Wow. Haggerty thinks that Stuart should ‘de-escalate’ from the court case. Does she have inside info? I smell a few nasty rancid smells as well.

      So, ‘divisive’ (word of the year , or decade, for sure) and a ‘distraction’, says Haggerty. Aye, only if the britnat media make it so and they will, with your help! Such is the establshment controlled media. Steering political discourse, silencing political analysis when not complying with their agenda, and ensuring that only what they say is seen as being somehow, legitimate. We know that the opposite is true, but many do not.

      Some folks will stoop pretty low to get somewhere, in any occupation. Their loss in the long run.

    130. Cactus says:

      Az exactly, thank you fine Scot.

      How’s ur Saturday night going Az?

      Did you get up to any mischief?

      I did.

    131. crazycat says:

      @ artyhetty and meg merrilees

      If there’s any distraction, it’s being caused by people like AH banging on and on and on about it. If she thinks it’s diversionary, she could just shut up.

      But that wouldn’t get lots of lovely clicks for Common Space and she’d have to find something else to write about for the SH.

      She might even be able to find a topic that actually helped independence. That would be novel, wouldn’t it?
      .

    132. Cactus says:

      Without PASSION there is no LOVE.

      Love Scotland.

      Love passion.

      LSX.

    133. Alex Clark says:

      No matter the result of the court case if it comes to that, I suspect CommonSpace and The Sunday Herald will have lost a lot of support over this.

      Maybe Wings too though that is less likely, just need to read the comments btl on CommonSpace to see that.

      Sad anyway and something we could no doubt do without, but hey was never going to be easy was it?

    134. Grouse Beater says:

      Meg: “If they can put solar panels on the roofs of trains in India can’t we design electric cars with solar panels on their roofs?

      A few experimental cars have solar glass roofs. I should they will become standard in time. And electric buses have solar section as well as charging pads.

      The CEO of Tesla says his company has invented a solar roof tile – sounds a great invention.

    135. Az says:

      Only very slight interweb mischief! 🙂 Went out last night, was good fun. Quiet tonight.

      Singing

      We’ll be coming, we’ll be coming

    136. Cactus says:

      But why..?

      “Because people who have no hopes are easy to control…

      And whoever has the control, has the power..”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sEZmMeH96Q

      Falkor!!!

      He’s a luck dragon.

      Aye ahm Atreyu!

      We are Bastian.

    137. Cactus says:

      But why?

    138. Petra says:

      C’mon folks we’re nearly there. To my mind just 18 months away, so not long to go now. Just think of the millions (of poverty stricken b*stards in the main) who have given their lives, their life blood, to our cause over the last 300 years or so. We’ll never know who they were of course but can feel their pain to some (little) extent.

      Now we’re faced with MANY powerful enemies within the UK and MORE so outwith. We are facing a David versus Goliath battle more than anything because the MSM is not on our side and well we’re all extremely conversant with who’s running THAT show.

      Please support Wings, the National, Ginger dug, I-Scot (RIGHT NOW) and others to help us move on through this crucial period in time and rid ourselves of our eternal parasite and tormentor. Ireland managed to get the help of people in countries such as the USA but we’re not asking for funds for arms (more so than that of course – as we all know full well). We’re just asking for YOUR help to get the truth out there.

      PLEASE HELP US. Calling on all Scots (ANYONE who cares for us / our beloved country) here in the UK and of course much further afield. Just asking for you, PLEASE, to put your hand in your pocket to help us to get us out of this hellhole.

    139. Cactus says:

      Cause aye ahm Atreyu!

      Livin’ da Wings in da morning.

      Ain’t no fuck filter” here 😉

      But why..?

    140. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Hud Fast Gadgies,

      Ignore the shi*ters, ‘n’ the Splitters,

      Their Erse’s huv collapse..ed,

      Now is the time to keep our powder dry,

      Wait until we see the whichts o’ the Yoonyonist ‘eye,

      And Peacefully we will wave this corrupt Yoonyun Goodbye.

      The Greater doth they protest, they sooner we shall gain oor Independence.

      And they f**kers know it.

      It’s so close now….

      Time to bomb up oor mags, fill wur bellires and fix bayonets.

      It’s gonna be messy and dirty

      Up close and personal

      But remember, it’s gonna be worth it.

      🙂

    141. Cactus says:

      Je suis Bastian.

      “I will do what I dream”

      Kin right.

    142. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Love Scotland,

      Love Cactus’s banter,

      ‘kin right.

    143. Cactus says:

      Without PASSION there is no LOVE.

      Scotland.

      X.

    144. Cactus says:

      Without PASSION there is no LOVE.

    145. Cactus says:

      It is what it is.

      LOVE.

    146. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Without PASSION there will be NO Indy Scotland.

      Sobering thought.

    147. Cactus says:

      I second your current comment JWT.

      Time is 03:13hoors

    148. Cactus says:

      PASSION is essentially important.

      A hell yeah!!!

      Late July.

      ’17

    149. Cactus says:

      We are actually aye and a definitely doing it.

    150. Ghillie says:

      Used to buy the iScot magazine whenever I saw it in the shops but recently subscribed to be sure of always having each issue.

      And to help with iScots survival = )

      Great read, gorgeous pictures and above all, brilliant and diverse content. There is nothing on the stalls to match iScot 🙂

      Tried to buy my National in supermarket yesterday evening – sold out again! Which is good news and heartening. Heaps of every other paper left though. Constantly ask for more Nationals to be stocked wherever I shop 🙂

      Our Independence media is making an impact = ) Keep it up folks!!

    151. Ghillie says:

      Cactus, only 5 things I love about Scotland?!

      How about 5,000,000 🙂

      Have a lovely Sunday folks = )

    152. Ken500 says:

      ‘Nationals’ are supposed to be stocked through the tills. If they are sold out a higher number are ordered. That doesn’t seem to work. There seems to be a shortage in the stores. A problem with distribution. Or production?

      Readers of the Herald are going over to the National. The Herald readership is falling. The National’s is rising. The Herald will fold. The National will remain. Ignore the dissenters articles, More jobs cut on most of the unionists pamphlets. Readership falling. Mail will relocate to Ireland on Brexit. More job loses. ‘Journalists’ writing themselves out of a job. Telling lies. How ignorant is that?

      The Tories cut support for solar, wind turbines and sea, tidal power. Banned wind turbine in England. Cut support for solar. The cheapest and cleanest, Westminster cut a tidal barrage planned at the Humber (£9Billion). They are spending £Billions of borrowed (Chinese) money on Hinkley Point by the sea. A total,waste of public money. Much more expensive and dangerous. It will cost £Billions more. There are more feasible alternatives. Two tidal barrages would produce more energy be safer and cheaper. The Tories are lining their pockets with their wasteful projects. In consultancies and banking fees etc. Brexit is costing £Billions. The Tories are lining their pockets in quangos and consultancies fees and fake jobs. That is why the Tories support it. Wasting £Billions of public money. Brexit will cost more for less. Corbyn is a waste of time. Useless. A liar. Some people are being taken in. Some people never learn.

      Scotland loses out on £Billions of EU Grants for renewable etc because of Westminster indecision. CCS projects reneged upon by Westminster. Scotland could CCS for the whole of Europe. Scotland has vast energy reserves. Not being exploited because of Westminster Treasury illegally high taxes. Ireland has a great major road system (motorways) because of EU Grants etc. Westminster takes £Billions out of Scotland, by total mismanagement.

      Westminster policies hold Scotland back. They have been taking vast resources from Scotland and hiding their actions under the Official Secrets Act for years. The McCrone Report/Gers etc, Spending it on London S/E, Canary Wharf, Tilbury Docks etc. Along with illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion, To make Westminster unionists and their cronies extremely wealthy in consultancies, banking fees, charges etc. The only reason they are in Gov.

      Westminster Unionists are wasting £Trns. Buying elections with illegal undeclared funding and donations. To waste even more taxpayers money on grutesque projects of no value. Now unelected politicians are involved in Scottish affairs. They sanction the vulnerable. Cut funding for essential public service and starve people to death. Killing and maiming millions and causing the worst migration crisis since 11WW. Then leave the EU/European countries to pay for it. Costing £Trns and ruining the world economy.

    153. Nana says:

      Links

      It makes you laugh. No, not the whisky
      http://archive.is/y1WVe

      Scottish Government calls for UK legal protection of Scotch whisky post-Brexit
      http://archive.is/iQSRu

      https://www.autonomyscotland.org/the-emotional-case-for-union/

      http://evolvepolitics.com/google-left-wing-censorship/

    154. Grouse Beater says:

      Your weekend supplement of politics and satire:

      Tories electrified on car porn: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-ifl
      Dispicable Me 3: not about Wings: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-ioa
      Adventures of a Scot in LaLa Land: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-ie0

    155. colin alexander says:

      @Meg merrilees

      Aye, exactly.

      Millions for the GE and £1 billion for the DUP bribe to prop up the minority Tory Govt.

      Jackie Baillie probably considers that money well used, as it’s all money spent on keeping the Tories in power.

    156. McBoxheid says:

      I wrote to The National yesterday, wrt. Callum Baird’s editorial complaining of criticism by Ross Grier et al. I feel that criticism should be welcomed, as long as it is followed by options for improvement.

      There is no point in always agreeing with everything being said out of a sense of unity, or fear of offending if you disagree with certain aspects of a newspaper’s, blogg’s, or magazine’s coverage. Criticism is healthy if given with suggestions and not just for criticism’s sake.

      My letter is below.

      Given the attack on the SNP by Michael Fry and others in the week before the General Election and the amount of coverage given to Jeremy Corbin, the leader of a party that strongly condones unionism and an “even harder Brexit than the Tories”, it is surprising that criticism of The National hasn’t been greater.

      During that week, there were several articles putting down the Scottish Government in the way they handle Scottish affairs on an increasingly shrinking budget granted by Westminster.

      A pattern starts to emerge when looking back to previous elections that saw The National heavily backing Rise, which lets face it, did not exactly shine with their abysmal performance at the election. You might even come to the conclusion that this paper had something against the party that has been in government in Scotland these last 10 years.

      The only serious vehicle that we have in Scotland that can accomplish independence at present, is the curent Scottish government, the SNP. Criticism is all well and good, they deserve criticism where and when it is warranted. But not by right wing Tory columnists, who back Conservative and Unionist ideology, in the week before a general election. In backing Rise in previous campaigns The National hasn’t exactly been a good example of unity at a time where it is most needed.

      It appears that by bigging up anyone except the only party that has a chance of beating the unionists in our country that close to election time only supports the divide and rule Britnat agenda.

      What is needed is a newspaper capable of expressing the argument for independence in a non party-political way that makes the case so obvious, that it becomes very difficult to argue against it. The SNP does not even need to be mentioned, other than as the vehicle for independence. There certainly is no requirement for backing right wing Tory or hard left Rise policy at a time when unity is required. It smacks of tribalism, which only enhances the power of unionism.

      The National has already done a lot of what is suggested. Other ideas and points of view are always to be welcomed, but as always in politics, timing is everything.

    157. colin alexander says:

      How to find your local stockists of iScot Magazine:

      https://iscot.scot/where-to-buy/

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      O/T

      My first action this morning, (after breakfast), was to read the on-line news. The first BBC news lies item was under this headline:-

      CALL FOR SCOTCH TO BE DEFINED IN UNITED KINGDOM LAW

      It then goes on to tell us that Keith Brown, (Scotland’s Economy Secretary), has written to Westminster ministers calling for protection of the Scotch whisky industry.

      Then comes the BBC/United Kingdom/British/English Government propaganda lies, when they claim, “The Industry is worth about £4 billion to Scotland in exports.”

      Which, of course, is total lies. In the first place by far the largest company in the industry is, “Diagio”, and their registered head office, (where they pay tax from), is in London and thus is recorded as tax collected from England. Diagio are not alone among distillers in being classed as an English/London Company for tax purposes.

      Secondly all Alcohol Duty is collected directly by the United Kingdom/England/British Treasury. Furthermore, (in relation to exports), the United Kingdom/English/British Government also classes exports for statistical records as being from the country where they leave the United Kingdom and not from the United Kingdom country that produces the exported goods. Such as Diagio export Scotch Whisky, (and the other 70% of UK Gin that is produced in Scotland), from United Kingdom ports and airports.

      Thus There is actually precious little revenue that benefits Scotland or the Scots for all Scotland gets is the block grant that Westminster decides to pay Scotland but has the, highly polished, brass neck to claim is a subsidy of English tax payer’s money that subsidises the Scots.

      Thing is, just how many of those Scots Buts know that, on a per capita basis, the average Scot contributes more to the treasury than any other United Kingdom country. In other words the truth is Scots are subsidising the rest of the UK countries for it is not English tax payers money it is United Kingdom tax payer’s money and the Scottish per capita GDP is normally greater than that of either any other United Kingdom country or indeed the average Per Capita GDP of the entire United Kingdom.

    159. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      https://www.newscientist.com/article/2142072-first-proof-that-facebook-dark-ads-could-swing-an-election/amp/

      This stuff really worries me! Everyone on the YES should be aware of it, and we need to be prepared to counter it!

      There are suggestions that “dark ads” online may have already swung the Trump election and EURef.

      But this quote really stood out for me ….

      ” Perhaps the goal is simply to dissuade or encourage people from voting. “We know it’s really easy to convince people not to go to the polls,” says Bryson. “Prime at the right time and you can have a big effect. It’s not necessarily about changing opinions.” “

      …. the SNP vote dropped in the recent general election. The largest loss was people who simply didn’t vote. Just saying!

    160. Jamie Noble says:

      never read it before but now paid up. Anything that supports the cause gets my money.

    161. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      McBoxheid at 9.08

      Corbyn is spelt with a “y” and Michael Fry made it very clear in the National that he was supporting voting for the SNP though he has political differences on the left/right spectrum.

      The National is not an SNP leaflet, it is a newspaper and would not be a newspaper if it did not present a wide view of the independence movement. It is a magnificent achievement for it to have continued on its small team against all the odds including attacks continuously from those pretending to support our independence.

      Your letter to it is complete offensive bollocks but I assume it replicates the bollocks you send to all the numerous papers that oppose independence. Or do you just let them get on with it?

    162. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      http://evolvepolitics.com/google-left-wing-censorship/

      Very interesting. Sounds like Google is trying to copy what the BBC and other broadcasters do. They assume that the news reported across the msm with politically biased consensus or plagiarism is the truth, while the “alternative viewpoint” from independent sites and blogs is more likely to be “fake news” and “conspiracy theory”.

      They are therefore more likely to present the msm version, just as broadcast media does.

      It’s a totally flawed approach because the msm now carries out very little proper investigative journalism. Well researched articles with source references are no more likely to be found on ‘alternative’ sites, ie WoS.

      This is yet another online trend which could harm the Indy cause.

    163. Nana says:

      @galamcennalath

      It worries me too. Opendemocracy made a short video a while ago hoping to raise funds to investigate further into who or which group is behind the dark money

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1s96Lj2toY&feature=youtu.be

    164. McBoxheid says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      30 July, 2017 at 9:36 am

      McBoxheid at 9.08

      Corbyn is spelt with a “y” and Michael Fry made it very clear in the National that he was supporting voting for the SNP though he has political differences on the left/right spectrum.

      The National is not an SNP leaflet, it is a newspaper and would not be a newspaper if it did not present a wide view of the independence movement. It is a magnificent achievement for it to have continued on its small team against all the odds including attacks continuously from those pretending to support our independence.

      Your letter to it is complete offensive bollocks but I assume it replicates the bollocks you send to all the numerous papers that oppose independence. Or do you just let them get on with it?

      So the first thing you critcise is my mispelling? Big of you.
      I am well aware that The National is not an SNP leaflet. My point was that splitting the vote by seemingly backing these other groups above the SNP at a critical time in the week before a major election, isn’t very well thought through. I did say that other ideas are always welcomed, timing was everything. As for unionist newspapers, no I don’t write to them as I don’t read them. I see enough of the bollocks they write on WoS and know from replies btl that it is waste of time writing to them anyway, as it would not be published.

    165. Tinto Chiel says:

      Meg Merrilees @11.50: yes, Pravdasound4 giving Passchendaele big licks this morning, in some ways the most appalling of all the battles of WW1. The UK establishment is backward-looking, constantly referring to imperial times, when huge numbers of working people could be sacrificed by the crowned heads of Europe to satisfy their political goals.

      Many of the men who fought didn’t even have the vote in 1917 (and NO women in the UK).

    166. colin alexander says:

      The National.

      It’s always in the back of my mind that this is a Newsquest / Gannett Company Inc title. A company we know pushes, anti-Scottish independence propaganda through The Herald etc. Knowing any profits from The National will go to Newsquest put me off buying The National.

      Whether The National’s promotion of RISE was a deliberate tactic to try and damage SNP support or a genuine attempt to promote social justice policies, I don’t know. But, I agree RISE was a wasted vote.

      However, the SNP campaign tactic of: “Both Votes SNP” was an error.

      In many cases that meant the regional list seat went to a Unionist candidate.

      They should have urged pro-indy supporters to give their list vote to the Greens.

      We are told Nicola Sturgeon is planning to meet with the Scottish Independence Convention: independenceconvention.scot .

      I think the SNP should have done that before the elections and worked with them on a joint campaign to maximise pro-indy politicians. But it’s good Nicola is talking to them now. Let’s just hope she listens, if SIC have helpful things to say.

    167. cearc says:

      It strikes me that Kezia’s new pals, who seem to be shouting that she must be correct simply because of her sex/sexuality (and WoS has more readers then them), are not doing her any favours.

      She did have the option of quietly paying up and muttering an apology which would have been reported in tiny print in obscure corners of the press.

      With so much self-righteous screaming, that option has been severely eroded.

    168. cearc says:

      Grousey,

      Tesla 3 looks cool, great range and super-charge time (170mls/30mins).

      Do tell us if you manage to test drive one when you’re over the pond.

    169. heedtracker says:

      The National is not an SNP leaflet, it is a newspaper and would not be a newspaper if it did not present a wide view of the independence movement. It is a magnificent achievement for it to have continued on its small team against all the odds including attacks continuously from those pretending to support our independence.

      Without the SNP Dave, the National would be what? Its fine for what it is, a newspaper, in a world where newspapers and journos are, well what are they Dave?

      Graun says, in 2009,

      Only 3% of public trust journalists

      Roy Greenslade
      @GreensladeR

      Tuesday 31 March 2009 17.46 BST First published on Tuesday 31 March 2009 17.46 BST
      Here’s a sobering, if not entirely surprising, poll finding. Journalists are among the least trusted professionals in Britain. According to a survey conducted for the Bar Standards Board, we are down there with bankers, estate agents and politicians.

      The survey results, which you will find here, show that only 3% of the 2,044 adults who were polled trusted journalists. Bankers managed a 2% rating while estate agents and politicians were trusted by only 1%.”

      Etc, but moving forward down the great British UKOK hackdom timeline Dave and

      http://www.prweek.com/article/1417671/journalists-politicians-languish-latest-public-trust-index

      When it comes to telling the truth, public trust in politicians has dropped over the past year, while journalists’ credibility also remains unimpressive.

      Elsewhere, a Mumsnet user added: “My motto is: ‘never trust the BBC’.”

      And yet here you are Dave, explainerising away, how dare anyone be mean to a bunch of hacks, what do not want to be writing an SNP leaflet.

    170. Ken500 says:

      Diageo and other Whisky companies tax evade. Pay no tax at all making vast profits from using Scottish resources because of the UK tax regime of tax evasion.

      The ‘National’ (Herald) been less critical of the SNP and less supportive of radicals lately. The Herald readership has been going over to the National. Herald readership decreasing. National increasing. The Herald will fold. The National will continue. Just ignore the dissenters article.. It still supports Independence. Has some interesting letters published.

    171. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Ken500 @ 10.10am

      Cannot accept your argument, the Herald will fold in favour of the National. The Herald attracts more advertising, if a choice has to be made, the owners will close the National, it was ever thus.

      I worked for that group when it had different owners. The paper I was working for was taking readers from the main paper, but when a choice had to be made – we were sacrificed.

      The Herald is in a right bad state. There are fewer and fewer good journalists who still care and some of the desk jockeys ought never have been let through the door.

      If the Herald got back to something like its past standards, it could be saved. But, it will have to, I feel, become more pro-independence if it is to survive.

      Actually, I feel, the National is a blueprint for the future of print journalism – it is mainly freelance-written, but produced but a small, dedicated and hard-working full-time team.

      Somewhere between the National template and the Herald’s is the future for the Newsquest Scottish titles. A more pro-independence stance is a must, however.

    172. Fireproofjim says:

      OT
      While looking at an oil industry report I saw a quote that “WoS has massive oilfields, most still to be developed”.
      I wondered why, in that case, Stu needed to appeal for legal funds when the penny dropped. – WoS means West of Shetland in the oil industry. Or does it? I think we need to be told.

    173. colin alexander says:

      @Ken500

      The ideal situation would be where journos with talent, integrity and pro-indy beliefs were writing for a publisher who has also has a pro-indy ethos and puts some of the profits towards supporting indy.

      Whether Gannett Inc gives a damn about the Union vs indy is anybody’s guess.

      Maybe they are just like an arms dealer who will happily sell to any side as long as they can make money out of it.

      But, as we are told: The pen is mightier than the sword:

      “True, This! —
      Beneath the rule of men entirely great
      The pen is mightier than the sword. Behold
      The arch-enchanters wand! — itself is nothing! —
      But taking sorcery from the master-hand
      To paralyse the Cæsars, and to strike
      The loud earth breathless! — Take away the sword —
      States can be saved without it!”

    174. Ken500 says:

      Total tax revenues raised in Scotland £54Billion. Total taxes raised in the UK £533Billion. (UK Gov accounts) Total taxes raised in the rest of the UK. £479Billion. Divide by 11 (11/12 pop) = £43.5Billion. Over £10Billion less pro rata. The rest of the UK borrow and spend £100Billion more. Average £10Billion. Scotland has to pay £4Billion debt repayment on the debt.

      Scotland loses £20Billion a year on Westminster mismanagement of Scotland. £4Billion debt repayment on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. £4Billion? Oil & Gas sector taxed at 40% since Jan 2016 losing thousand of jobs in Scotland. £3Billion in tax evasion. £1Billion Trident. £1Billion minimum pricing. £Billion lost EU Grants/CAP = £15Billion++ Scotland can’t borrow £5Billion? to invest in the economy = £20Billion++

      Scotland gets back £28Billion Block Grant. Capital payment? £14Billion (UK) Pension/welfare benefits. £3Billion Defence (£1Billion Trident to provide jobs in Barrow/Devonport) – £50Billion? £4Billion loan repayments in money not borrowed on spent in Scotland.

      Scotland is held back by Westminster mismanagement.

    175. Grouse Beater says:

      Cearc: “Grousey, Tesla 3 looks cool, great range and super-charge time (170mls/30mins).”

      No wonder investment in his company vastly outruns actual output and profit! He’s so far ahead of the market.

      A 30 minute charge is worth the wait if you need the extra miles to get home and a full boost. I read Tesla is developing a company researching full charges in minutes.

      They have a showroom off St Andrew’s Square, Embra. Worth a doddle in for a peek.

    176. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T but heartening and pleasing.

      I attended an event in the Scottish Malt Whisky Society last night and it was quite enjoyable.

      I was eventually in conversation with an Icelandic Lady who spotted my discrete lapel badge… the Saltire and the EU stars… touched it and said “thank you”.

      Let’s not forget what Brexit really means and what the EU also means. To us and to everyone.

      I am still awaiting the call to arms !

    177. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ken500 think your wrong re the number of orders for a paper going up due to numbers of sales through the Till. For starters newsagents tills are not connected up to Menzies the distributors.
      They are the problem and have been for a considerable time, when I lived in Aberdeen I could never get the Herald (When it was a decent paper) as I was away on business a lot I could not order from Newsagent. I complained to the Herald distribution Manager several times and every time he said it was down to Menzies. I have same problem here on Arran with Scots Independent even through it’s on order with Newsagent ,often it doesn’t turn up, again down to Menzies.
      Going by the Callum Baird the editor of the National who said that they have had a tough time sales wise since the GE. Doesn’t sound to me if sales are increasing.
      Why don’t you place an order with your Newsagent for the National?

    178. heedtracker says:

      colin alexander says:
      30 July, 2017 at 10:32 am
      @Ken500

      Its all a lot you Colin A, WoS btl, in that you never ever attack anything tory, red or blue, youse just put the don’t vote SNP boot in quite hard, hard and harder, when it suits.

      One of the big drivers behind WoS success I think, is that it says, wait up, look at what the UKOK hackdom/tory spin doc machine says is happening and or but, what is actually happening?

      You will argue all of that is nonsense Colin A, you’re ofcourse very pro Scottish independence and Scottish democracy, like what the National is, right, youre not an “SNP leaflet.”

      USA tv satire has exploded in popularity in the last decade, for much the same reason WoS has, people just love to laugh at tory/GOP gimpery. USA has Murdoch’s horrify FOX News hard core Cons propanda, we have massed ranks of the 400+ thousand beeb gimps, but we have no one to satirise them, because…

    179. colin alexander says:

      @Robert Kerr

      Thanks Robert for mentioning the Icelandic lady. That’s a nice way to introduce this BBC article:

      Free trade area, single market, customs union – what’s the difference?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36083664

    180. Golfnut says:

      ‘re dark money,

      Funnily enough at the beginning of this week I made a comment on one indygirls posts on my Facebook page regarding the number of ads/ suggested pages coming in regarding labour and Corbyn.
      My comment basically stated that I considered Corbyn to be nothing more than a establishment gimp, that I never clicked on anything labour, and they seemed to have replaced the previous union Jack and Colon Gadaftie suggestions off previous weeks.
      I asked if any one else had noticed this and did they if Labour were paying to have this happen. Strangely enough, none since and the previous have disappeared.

    181. cearc says:

      Grousey,

      Yep, very impressive. 310 ml. range. That puts electric cars into the useful range where I live, allowing for the drop off with big hills and small windey roads.

      Main stream car at 40,000 USD. (Not that I would spend more than 1,000 on a car!)

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-29/tesla-s-model-3-arrives-with-a-surprise-310-mile-range

    182. the thinker says:

      what has happened to the Yoons

    183. Les Wilson says:

      Ken500 says:

      Ken, let’s just call it what it is, blatant theft from Scotland on all levels. It is what they do, and what they have always done.

    184. Nana says:

      One more link

      James Kelly on today’s Haggerty clickbait in the herald

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/the-easily-distracted.html

    185. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      McBoxheid at 9.58

      I was halfway through your post agreeing with most of it before I realised you were just repeating my post.

      Is it your suggestion that the National should NOT publish a wide range of independence supporting views?

      It is easy to be wise after the event but somebody just came to me with a suggestion that is worth considering.
      SNP on the lists didn’t work well at all as it required monumental votes for the SNP to gain even the tiny handful of list seats. Might it have been a good idea for all the pro independence groups (including SNP members)to have stood on the lists under a joint SIC campaign? That would have produced perhaps five more independence MSPs.
      (That is always assuming the multitude of “radical” groups could be persuaded to sit in the same room for long enough to select a wide range of candidates and to support each other).

    186. Footsoldier says:

      Had a look at the Scottish Independence Convention website. Nothing since April 2017 and banging on about forthcoming general election.

      Enough said.

    187. colin alexander says:

      Joan McAlpine’s Rag aka The Daily Record carries another SNP bad story from Colonel Ruth’s Red Dragoons ( Scottish Labour).

      It in an attack based on positive outcomes for young people because it seems they Iain Gray said, a job ( with a zero-hours contract) is recorded as positive. Glossing over the fact positive outcomes are increasing, cutting the number of NEETs ( not in education employment or training).

      No mention that Zero-Hours contracts are WM controlled. That Labour in their 1997 manifesto pledged to abolish them. Then, once in power, decided they are a positive thing.

      That the Tories love zero-hour contracts and Scottish Labour loves the Tories.

      No, none of that, just SNP bad.

    188. Jock McDonnell says:

      @RobertKerr
      Robert, there will be no call to arms, such as there was, happened some time ago.
      It’s us Robert, it’s us. Now.

      O/T
      Been reading Iain Banks. He calls Edinburgh The Dormant Capital.
      Worth repeating, often. Win Edinburgh and we win.

    189. velofello says:

      I don’t believe that recent and current events as discussed here are chance occurrences. I’ve been reading Wings from it’s beginnings, I fully support Rev Stu.

      My view of Cat Boyd has sunk into the chasm.The National would be as well to publish a blank page for her column for me. To vote Labour if you are an independence supporter is wrong-headed based on the Labour’s behaviour during the Referendum campaign, to admit it astonishing if you aspire to public recognition and to influence opinion.

      I’ve read Angela Haggarty’s column in today’s Sunday Herald, a snide dissertation. A single sentence would have sufficed – “I don’t like Rev Stu, and I envy his success”. And missing from her article was reference to the support she received from the Rev when she lost her job. So another blank page in future for me, this time in the Sunday Herald.

    190. colin alexander says:

      @heedtracker

      I’d already written my comment about The Daily Record, to defend the SNP Scot Govt, challenge Labour hypocrisy, and challenge Labour and Tory UK Govt’s backing of zero hour contracts before reading your comment criticising me.

      No, I don’t give unqualified support for the SNP either. I also have my wee dig at Joan McAlpine for writing for that Labour propaganda rag in the first place.

      In my opinion the Record is only fit for the bottom of a cat’s litter tray beside the other keech.

      ( Sorry, if you’re eating lunch.)

    191. ScottishPsyche says:

      Angela Haggerty/ Cat Boyd / Loki ( insert name as necessary) is no friend to Indy, does not speak for me, is divisive, creates conflict and should be removed from ‘the movement’.

      Am I doing this right, Angela? Can I get a job at CS?

      Oh, I see, those views are not your views so…

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      @McBoxheid
      The National gives a platform to any pro-Indy group or writer, including the SNP. Would you have it any other way? It’s not called “The SNP National”.

    193. yesindyref2 says:

      @Socrates MacSporran
      The Herald becoming pro-Indy is one way. The other would be to become more fact based and balanced, and I think it is trying to become the latter. It certainly offends some “Unionist” or anti-SNP posters who accuse it of being an SNP mouthpiece, as well as offending pro-Indy and SNP posters, so perhaps as they say, being attacked from all sides it must be starting to get it right. But if it is trying that approach, it’s got a long way to go compared to what I see in my brief and irregular visits to the Scotsmand.

    194. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      Yes, Menzies Distribution seems to be the problem, also with iScot who are looking for distributors according to their website (as well as donations).

      Yes it’s strange, I drive around Scotland a lot, have done for a lot of years now, and this year there’s MD’s vans all over the place, and I remember from an article in the Herald business section that MD are looking to grow their distribution arm around Scotland. So I doubt it has anything to do with partisanship or anti-Indy, just poor organisation. But that’s something any fledgling business has to start with, and transportation is a very competitive and difficult industry to be in. Perhaps they’ll improve.

      I hope the iScot gets its target and more, it really is a very professional glossy magazine, perhaps could do with some more non-Indy articles about Loch Something, Glen Somewhere, X Festival. Disclaimer: though I have nothing to do with iScot itself, I have no personal money, but my business does have some money it should use for more advertising – and the more that buy from those ads the better for all of us!

    195. stu mac says:

      @yesindyref2 says:
      30 July, 2017 at 2:12 pm
      @Socrates MacSporran
      The Herald …. certainly offends some “Unionist” or anti-SNP posters who accuse it of being an SNP mouthpiece, as well as offending pro-Indy and SNP posters, so perhaps as they say, being attacked from all sides it must be starting to get it right.
      =======================

      That’s a dubious argument. Tory politicians continually attack the BBC for being too left wing yet it’s obvious that – as far as news and current affairs anyway is concerned it is getting more right wing. Often politicians will keep attacking like this, partly to keep it in line and partly to push it even further right (and even partly because their prejudices prevent them from seeing it’s not left wing) so the argument that it “annoys both sides so must be about right” is a false one.

    196. Fred says:

      Menzies could well be the problem. Nobody in my neck of the woods sells the Scotsman for example, not that one would want it mind!

    197. yesindyref2 says:

      @stu mac
      Generally I agree. Not sure which way the Herald is going all the same. Certainly the Sunday is the same as the daily one, and people should stop referring to it as “pro-Indy”, if anything it’s gone a bit more anti than the daily as, presumably, it sets about getting it back into the same stable as the daily one.

    198. heedtracker says:

      No, I don’t give unqualified support for the SNP either. I also have my wee dig at Joan McAlpine for writing for that Labour propaganda rag in the first place.”

      You’ve yet to say anything nice about the SNP at all Colin, zero. You’re not obliged to. Neither is your bestie Rock, who also never does, say anything even remotely positive, about anything at all really, Scotland wise.

      Hows about yous give us your top ten SNP policies Colin? or 5 maybe?

      Its just not the game though is it.

    199. yesindyref2 says:

      Glad to see the iScot is up to £ 24,796 after the Sunday update. Shows the power of Wings over Scotland, it was struggling before even despite a couple of posters pleading for it below the line. Note this bit:

      “Become a distributor of the Magazine – e mail info (att) iscot dott scot”

      I’m hoping Ken can tell us how, what we can do, and for a load of people to volunteer in their area for instance, if that’s the way it goes. And for perhaps Rogue Coder to help out.

      Donating to Wings keep Wings going, and in its turn Wings promotes a good few worthy fundraisers. Just think how it could be if certain other pro-indy ragsites stopped attacking Wings …

      We’re all in it together! (as a certain filthy rich politician told us about austerity).

    200. ScottishPsyche says:

      Well done iScot. I have subscribed for over a year now and I love the magazine. It is criminal it has not had the kudos it deserves.

      O/T
      Are you in an online feud? MTV wants to hear your story! Angela? Angela?
      https://twitter.com/NowCastings/status/891036603359010816

    201. yesindyref2 says:

      @ScottishPsyche
      Could be a good idea to go for that – extra publicity after all.

      They’d have to get their act together before the “show”!

    202. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees,

      “Just read Angela Haggerty’s article in the Sunday herald re the possible court case between Wings v Dugdale.

      Basically she thinks the Rev should back down:”

      Buy The National to keep its elder sisters, The Herald and The Sunday Herald alive.

      Truth Always.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      “Buy The National to keep its elder sisters, The Herald and The Sunday Herald alive.”

      “Buy The National” is correct, it’s the only Indy-supporting paper around. The rest of the sentence is crap.

    204. stu mac says:

      @yesindyref2 says:
      30 July, 2017 at 3:01 pm
      ======================

      I think someone posted here a while back that the Sunday Herald editor had changed and that had led to a change in the direction the paper took.

    205. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindt2ref the Menzies vans you see about are couriers delivering parcels, they took over Agd of Inverness a couple of years ago, they delivered a lot to the west coast yellow and red vans!

      Think it was ajd the yellow and red vans anyhow!

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny
      Ah, AJG, thanks for that. Yes, I’ve tailed or led the odd few AJG vans, even onto ferries like the one to Eriskay back in the day before I “discovered” hostels and bunkhouses, even stayed at his wife’s B&B as I arrived from Barra unbooked anywhere.

      Perhaps they haven’t integrated the two services yet, to benefit newspaper / magazine distribution. I did think the times of one or two were a bit strange for newspapers – even in remote places!

    207. Meg merrilees says:

      Rock

      Do not presume that I buy the Herald or the Sunday Herald and do not re-use my post to try and prove your dubious statement.

      I read the Haggerty article online after being alerted re twitter.

    208. Daily Record sales down 10.3%. Sunday Mail sales down 12.6%.

    209. @colin alexander says:
      29 July, 2017 at 12:19 pm
      I am well aware that the SNP are not a one policy party.
      I happen to be a member of the party and activist.

      What I was getting at before my time ran out and wasn’t able to completely finish my post.

      It is this,the independence movement are a diverse lot with various views.

      while I may not agree with all the policies of the other parties or some of what is said or on some independence supporting websites or has been written in the Iscot and the national.

      I respect their opinions and don’t publicly attack those whose views I may disagree with.

      It about time the greens ands socialists showed respect for those whose views they are attacking publicly.

    210. Alan Laird says:

      Bugger this.
      I buy the National every day from my local village store (the owners are Yessers), where I also have iScot on order every month.
      I log into Wings often twice a day.
      So bugger this.
      There’s a tenner in the post Stu, and there’ll be the same again every time one of these nat-twats has a go at any of the above.
      Spend it on wine or lawyers of your choosing.



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