The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Start as you mean to go on

Posted on December 16, 2014 by

When Jim Murphy spoke on last night’s Scotland Tonight, he’d been the “leader” of Scottish Labour for approximately 60 hours. Here’s how he’s going to play it.

Let’s quickly examine those statements, shall we?

Murphy’s claim that Scottish Labour has “about 20,000” members is the one that leaps out immediately. By our calculations the true figure is closer to 7000.

But we’re partisan, and people might expect us to try to play Labour’s numbers down. The trouble is that Labour itself was telling journalists as recently as this weekend that its membership was 14,000.


We think it’s probably uncontroversial to say that 6000 new members haven’t joined since Murphy’s election. So even if we assume that Labour were telling the truth on Saturday – a highly doubtful prospect – Murphy was telling a whopper last night.

He then attempted to explain away the huge gulf in membership between Scottish Labour and the SNP by suggesting that SNP membership was as cheap as £1, while Scottish Labour’s cost up to £40. The trouble with that is that it’s not only technically untrue, it’s actually the OPPOSITE of the truth.

SNP membership is more than twice as expensive as Scottish Labour’s, and has been for quite some time. The minimum fee to join the Nats is £12 a year. (Strictly speaking there’s a £5 concessionary rate for the unwaged, but it’s buried very deeply on the join page of the website and is only mentioned if you choose to pay by credit or debit card, not by cheque or the default direct debit. Labour has concessionary rates going as low as £1 a year for students and the armed forces.)

Scottish Labour membership is a flat-rate £5 for everyone, and has been for months:


The “special referendum rate” of £5 a year has in fact continued for the three months beyond the referendum, and is still available. Labour were actively publicising it before the leadership election as a means of influencing the vote. And Jim Murphy knows that full well, because he was one of the people doing it.


Murphy’s claim that Scottish Labour membership cost up to 40 times that of the SNP’s, then, is a lie on a startling scale. The truth is that they already undercut the Nats by 60%, and have done for most of 2014.

But Murphy isn’t the only senior Scottish Labour figure who’s been telling whoppers recently. This was Margaret Curran, the party’s shadow Scottish Secretary, writing on her own website a week ago:

“Today, some constituents in the East End have emailed me about their concerns about shale gas extraction, which some people call fracking, particularly after last night’s vote in the House of Commons.

Last night, we debated the Infrastructure Bill, which covers a whole host of issues including roads, the British Transport Police, planning and shale gas extraction.

While we welcomed moves to enable further infrastructure projects across the UK, we thought this bill was wholly inadequate in other areas.

That is why I voted with other Labour MPs to refuse a second reading for this Bill.

The emphasis is ours, and the reason we’ve emphasised it is that it’s a lie.

Unfortunately for Margaret Curran, the House Of Commons records all its votes, including the one on the second reading of the bill on fracking which took place last Monday. And despite Curran’s claims, Labour did NOT oppose it.

Just 10 MPs did, most of them from the SNP and Plaid Cymru, backed up by the sole Green and a couple of Northern Irish members. Labour in fact didn’t vote on the bill at all – it abstained, as it so often does on votes which are in any way uncomfortable. Yet apparently Margaret Curran was happy telling her constituents a flat-out lie.

We suspect that Scottish Labour will try to get away with a lot more of those between now and May 2015. Rest assured that we’ll be here to keep the record straight.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

4 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 16 12 14 10:31

    Start as you mean to go on | Politics Scotland ...

  2. 16 12 14 11:41

    Start as you mean to go on - Speymouth

  3. 18 12 14 11:56

    Murphy’s Law |

  4. 28 02 15 21:59

    King Cnut's Blah Blah Glut - Eyes Wide Open

338 to “Start as you mean to go on”

  1. crisiscult says:

    If MP’s lie to their constituents, is there any kind of complaints procedure? Based on the information above, Curran said: I voted to refuse … ; whereas she abstained. Am I missing something? Is that just a misunderstanding?

  2. CyberNiall says:

    It takes 4 minutes 45 seconds to sign up. Another lie!

  3. One_Scot says:

    The man is full of shit.

  4. Bobjay says:

    Anyone can get away with a lie if they aren’t challenged.

    The problem is that very few journalists want to challenge them.

  5. R-type Grunt says:

    So Labour are liars. Who knew?

  6. Martin Wood says:

    This is beginning to look like the reopeneing of the Local Labour Branch supermarket.
    There’s a new branch manager…
    The new branch manager is proudly announcing that he is completely in charge of:
    which shelves the stock goes on,
    the shift rota
    and a new rack of ” devolved” managers specials that the London Labour Megastore Head Office will let him play with…

    The actual stock is no different from last week and has nothing that the London Labour Megastore can’t sell south of the border…
    He’ll still have to attend staff meetings in London…
    The big descisions will still be taken by the London Labour Megastore Head Office ..
    The new branch manager willl be whipped into line if needed…

    and he hasn’t told everyone that – come April.
    The only thing they’ll be stocking is porage……….Austerity Flavour……4p a bowl

  7. Sandra says:

    As if the price of membership has anything to do with why people join a party. The man’s an idiot as well a liar.

  8. Bruce says:

    I think SLAB needs a new anthem.

  9. MochaChoca says:

    I expect the Daily Record will also be reporting these misunderstandings and/or inaccuracies.

  10. joe kane says:

    Even if it was forty pounds to subsidise this utter dud of a party it’s worth every penny. Pound for pound it provides more and better entertainment than the TV Licence Fee. Jingo Jim’s anti-nationalist, pro-patriotic jog in a Scotland football top outside BBC Scotland HQ, Pravda Quay, Glasgow was a hoot.

    Looking forward to the Saltire-loyal MSP Kezia Dugdailymail first appearance at Thursday’s First Ministers Questions where she’ll explain why its patriotic, but not nationalistic, to lie to Scottish voters about Labour’s policy on fracking.

  11. Gordon Hay says:

    Then there is this insight from Peter Jones (who I believe is well-connected in Scottish Labour circles) in today’s Scotsman –

    “The party is completely hollowed out. Its membership in the constituency parties is less than 10,000 and perhaps not even a tenth of what the SNP can now boast.

    What’s more, senior party members tell me that most of the existing constituency membership comprises the relatives and friends of councillors/MSPs/MPs who see their primary role as protecting these fiefdoms and who would not welcome, let alone cause to happen, an influx of new members who might try to oust second-rate post-holders in favour of somebody new and better.”

  12. farrochie says:

    Easy, he’ll claim he meant £1 per month for SNP. Snake oil salesman, remember.

  13. bookie from hell says:

    Lie to Scottish people to protect Labour Party

    not a good start

  14. manandboy says:

    The No Campaign continues with a new face.
    But with the same old strategy.
    Lie, lie and lie again.
    Ad infinitum; ad nauseam.

  15. One_Scot says:

    Labour, the unionists and the media have got away with telling lies for so long now that then have normalised it.

    They can make up whatever they want to suit their agenda, and feel no guilt, because in their mind they no longer see lying as wrong.

    A very sad state of affairs for people at the bottom who know they are liars, but cannot do anything to stop it.

  16. Nobby Power says:

    I understand that Lindsay Roy ‘did a Curran’, and assured one of his constituents that he’d voted against the Infrastructure Bill. A nice properly written e-missive too, not just a stock one.

    But then, what does he care: he’s offski in May. As they used to say when he was headmaster at Inverkeithing HS…Roy Boy On Tour.

  17. Lollysmum says:

    This is definitely the way to go.

    Jump on every lie as soon as you hear it & publicise it widely as Stu has done here.

    The readership of Wings is big enough to start the ball rolling & with the National,NNS, Common Space(started yesterday)& other news outlets springing up it is probable that they will pick up the stories & run with them because they know they can rely on Stu’s research to back everything he says with facts.

    Forget the insults-we don’t need them & it does tend to make it look as though we are sore losers. The facts will do the job so much better & watch the liars squirm when confronted. 🙂

    Tick tock tick tock

  18. McV says:

    I spoke to two Labour members last night, that didn’t realise they were. They are members of a union, and were not aware that part of their subs go to the Labour Party. No-one made them aware of it when they signed up.

    Needless to say they won’t be Labour party members for long as they both plan to opt out of the Political Fund 1st thing this morning, so Jim’s fantasy figure will be getting further from the truth the more people we inform.

  19. caz-m says:

    Murphy is a professional liar. In the 30 second reply to John Mackay, he says that Scottish Labour have 20,000 members(lie), that SNP membership is £1(lie), Scottish Labour party members pay OVER £40(lie) and then says Scottish Labour party members pay UP TO £40(lie).

    So in a quick 30 second burst, he has spouted out FOUR lies.

    And he is hoping to become our First Minister.

    No Chance!

  20. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Did Murphy get asked about the rendition through Scotlands airports while he was involved in the government of the day??
    Surprise me and say yes.

  21. Macart says:

    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies…

    Can’t get that tune out of my head whenever I see Murphy for some reason.

  22. manandboy says:

    Jim is going to change the way the party is funded.
    He’ll probably switch to the No Campaign model –
    get wealthy Tories to make some million pound donations.

  23. annie says:

    Read yesterday that someone emailed his MP Tom Greatrex (?)to ask why they abstained on fracking and was told in reply that Labour voted against and SNP voted for.

  24. Flower of Scotland says:

    I see McWhirter is wagging his finger at us “Cybernats”! He says that we should take a leaf out of Nicola Sturgeons book and be more friendly towards the lying Labourites. She has to. We don’t.

  25. MochaChoca says:

    Gordon, that sounds fair.

    All it would take is for Labour to muster around 10 – 20 “hingers-on” for each of their 500 (approx) elected representatives to achieve the 7000 likely membership.

    Wouldn’t leave many ‘unconnected’ average joes among it members either, it’s more like a big club than a political party.

  26. Brotyboy says:

    Peter Jones (who I believe is well-connected in Scottish Labour circles)

    If this is Peter Jones the economics journalist I find it hard to believe that this Dundee High School FP is well-connected in Scottish Labour circles through any other channel than his NUJ card.

    Certainly if he was politically sympathetic to Labour I haven’t noticed this in his writing until now, and it would also put him way out left with Stalin and his ilk in the eyes of his erstwhile schoolmates and social circle.

    Of course, there is the possibility that the rumoured ‘Strathern Road snobbery’ has in his case fuelled a radical progressive, but I would doubt it.

    On second thoughts, if he’s a Tory then Scottish Labour is a natural home.

  27. think again says:

    Not so much starting as he means to go on, more a case of business as usual.

    His lack of grasp on matters financial is only surpassed by his lack of grasp on the concept of truth.

  28. HandandShrimp says:

    I joined the SNP recently so I am aware of the subscription rates. The minimum is as Stu says £1 a month although I think all the parties have a £5 rate for the unwaged, be that Labour. Greens or SNP (although it is harder to spot on the SNP page whereas it is trumpeted on the Labour page.

    The default rate on the SNP page is £5 a month and you have to change it to the £1 or £3 rate. Even at £1 if Labour were 40x more expensive then it would be £480 a year to join or £2,400 a year if you use the SNP default rate.

    No wonder they have no members 😉

    If he is going to tell such bare faced lies (and such easily refuted ones) then Labour are in deep do do.

  29. Haggis Hunter says:

    The problem here is Murphy is the British establishment’s man in Scotland, he is their hope of keeping their ‘union’..he is of Irish descent and doesnt see Scotland as being a coutry. He doesnt know anything about the history of Scotland.
    The media will back him, he can lie as much as he wants, we have to keep our message up, especially on social media, as Scotland does not have a voice, apart from Wings, Newsnet and the National.

  30. manandboy says:

    Jim is going to look at the ways SLAB organise the party.

    I wonder if the Labour-Orange Order partnership will come under scrutiny.

    Or should that be The Orange Order-Labour partnership, since the OO has more members than SLAB.

    I can remember when politics was soooooo boring.
    Now it’s the only show in town.

  31. One_Scot says:

    “The cybernats are playing into Labour’s hands”

    You know the world is f’cked up when Jim Murphy is allowed to be an absolute arse, and we are the bad guys for pointing it out.

    Thank God I am mortal.

  32. dan huil says:

    Either BBC “journalists” are ignorant or they are happy to go along with such lies.

  33. Desimond says:

    Reminds of this sad day for SCOTTISH Labour:

    SNP: What do you want to approve this Budget?
    Labour: 10’000 Apprenticeships
    SNP: Good idea, we can find money for 25’000
    Labour: We abstain

  34. galamcennalath says:

    I have followed politics for a long time, but more so recently. Never ever have I been so aware of any party so blatantly lying day after day, statement after statement. With Labour it seems to have reached the stage where if we heard something which was true, we would be astounded!

    Thatcher is supposed to have once said something like, it’s OK to lie in politics, the trick is not to be found out. With Labour in Scotland they have gone well beyond the point where they even care whether the lies are obvious!

    I can only deduce that they have reached such a state of meltdown that they just say what they think needs to be heard, facts and reality don’t come into it. They are no longer clutching at straws, they are thrashing at the water as they sink deeper and deeper.

  35. Desimond says:

    Is Jim doing his finest Velociraptor impersonation there?

  36. Fiona says:

    There is no better illustration that Mr Murphy is a neoliberal politician. He clearly believes that all human behaviour is determined by price/economic considerations. Like a lot of these clowns they subscribe to an economic theory which only works if all goods are direct substitutes for each other and so one buys the cheapest. Thus one will buy membership of a political party on the basis of price regardless of what that party stands for. Just as one will be perfectly happy to buy dog food rather than cornflakes if dog food is cheaper.

  37. BrianBluntTotal says:

    You might need to treat me with the thicko treatment – as much as i hate Curran and all that she stands for the Public Whip website states she voted against the Infrastructure Bill on Dec 8th. Which is right?

  38. Dorothy Devine says:

    Thanks Macart , that’s now stuck in my head – on the plus side it has displaced ” All I want for Christmas is you”
    which is preferable to ” all I want for Christmas is my two front teeth” but only just.

  39. Cuilean says:

    Thank God for this site, Stu, as we know that Labour’s mouthpiece in Scotland, the BBC (Jackie Bird, Glen Campbell, Sarah Smith etc etc), will certainly not be putting the truth to UK Labour’s Scottish branch members.Watching BBC Scotland politics shows is like watching a nest of vipers, all only looking out for number one, be they politicians or so-called ‘reporters’.

  40. Ken500 says:

    Insulting people’s intelligence with those couple of bampots, just makes folk even more angry. Remember all you investigating?, colluding ‘journalists’, don’t mention the War.

  41. john j says:

    This party is so used to telling lies that it has become second nature.

  42. manandboy says:

    Now that Jim has committed himself to all things Labour in Scotland,
    do we know where he is currently residing?
    As the reformed listening Labour Leader in Scotland,
    I just doubt he’ll hear very much if he’s living in London
    and merely commuting to Pacific Quay.

  43. arthur thomson says:

    Interesting programmes yesterday and today at 9.30 am on radio 4 called The Kingdom to Come. Worth a listen in my view. My blood pressure didn’t rise uncontrollably as I expected.

  44. heedtracker says:

    Its teamGB state sanctioned fraud. THE VOW worked well. BBC radio politics shows gave Gordon Brown a fine send off last week, explaining that Crash was a deeply moral and honest man who’s moral honest compass or whatever, was set because he grew up in a Scottish manse. When it comes to the British rule of Scotland, their liggers and ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s can say anything they like merely because who is going to challenge them?

  45. PictAtRandom says:

    Seems that “sliding scales” and The Snakelike One are perfectly matched.
    (With apologies to Mr McWhirter.)

  46. Robert Roddick says:

    I can see a business opportunity; a newspaper ”The Daily Liar”. Mind you we possibly have one already if not so overt!

  47. David Stevenson says:

    Labour grassroots campaigning in Rutherglen 5-6 weeks after the referendum consisted of an MP, an MSP, three councillors and one “civilian” who I wouldn’t be surprised to find was related to one of the other five or fancies stepping on to the Labour career ladder. Bereft of real activists and members but they did have a big turnout on 18th September. They like to “claim” the polling stations. I got the returning officer to make them remove a bag with Labour livery on it off the main door to the polling station at the European Parliament election. They are always at it round here.

  48. @Haggis Hunter

    There is a strong smell of bigoted sectarianism coming from your last post.

  49. Luigi says:

    Geeez, only 60 hours gone and the compulsive liar is already at it big time. I can see Stu and WoS being rather busy with this guy, over the next few weeks. Lots of material will appear, care of the one and only Jim Murphy. He just can’t stop himself.

    The man is a lie generating machine.

  50. H says:

    Jim said that membership is £40, 2011 finances report £106,644, so if Jim is tell in the truth £106644/£40 = 2666 members 2011 he rumbles his own party

  51. dmw42 says:

    Are Jim Murphy’s constituents being properly represented at his workplace whilst he’s up here prostituting himself in front of the media?

  52. fred blogger says:

    if people speak truth and speak it out loud, in a common voice and language, tyranny, oppression and/or injustice can never gain traction.

  53. Ken500 says:

    The irony is it will only be because of increased SNP MP’s holding the balance power in Westminster that the Tories can’t introduce EVEL in Westminster and destroy Labour’s power.

    Jim should start being really nice to the SNP. His imperial masters. Stop lying bampot, everyone is sick to death of it.

  54. McV says:

    Sorry. Not awake yet. I meant subscribers not members.
    Bad me.

  55. Bill McLean says:

    Haggis Hunter – I’m half Irish but 100% Scot, if you understand? Let us have no divisiveness on this blog. To be intolerant is not our raison d’etre. Some here may disagree over policy, but leave sectarianism and name- calling, and any of its cohorts to the unionists!

  56. Papadox says:

    Tell me lies once shame on you, tell me lies twice shame on me.

    The problem with liars is half the lies they tell aren’t true! Jimba and his dug are on a different scale.

    As for journalists in Scotland, half tell their lies from conviction and give it 100%. The other half are scared of loosing their jobs, they prefer to loose their credibility.

  57. No no no...Yes says:

    Jim Murphy is a man that cannot be trusted and this article is this an early Christmas present gift wrapped, complete with a bow, from Jim to the pro-indy parties. It is also gross stupidity and demonstrates a lack of strategic thinking on a huge scale. Here is the reason why:

    If Jim had been upfront and divulged the lowly membership figures then he could then rightfully claim that after his recruitment drive in the Spring that membership had gone up by x %, directly as a result of his great leadership skills and positive message getting through. However, he has shot himself in the foot because even if the recruitment drive is a success, a false 20,000 baseline makes any progress difficult to claim as a success! The only avenue now left is to further perpetuate the lie. It also means that they will never reveal the true membership details until the day after he resigns.

    With regard to this illusion of Jim being in total control, he said to judge him on what he does. His next test is to re-shuffle all parliamentary shadow cabinet posts, WESTMINSTER and Holyrood. Of course, he cannot carry out the former, as he is NOT in charge of the Westminster cabinet, ED is.

    What about the Labour Party GE2015 Manifesto? This will be a One Nation fairy story and how on earth does Jim expect to get his new socialist ideas included in this document. No chance!

    I will refrain from using foul language and expletives, because that will not help undecided readers, but this latest chapter of SLAB is way beyond belief. I just hope we can convince a majority of the people of Scotland, in Labour held seats particularly, to vote SNP at the GE2015.

  58. inky Pic says:

    Why would you risk telling lies like that which can easily be found out when you are trying to build trust? I’m not getting this man at all.

  59. Tamson says:

    Actually Desimond, it was worse than that: the Labour group at Holyrood voted AGAINST the 2011 Budget – they didn’t abstain.

  60. muttley79 says:

    The problem is not so much Murphy and Curran lying, it is the fact that MSM never hold them to account. If anybody from the SNP made these statements it would be the headline news on Reporting Scotland and the like.

  61. Grouse Beater says:

    Murphy just describing hinself as a socialist, and one who cares about Scotland, is a blatant lie!

    A wealthy studio executive in Los Angeles told his Malibu Hills home was on fire reacted immediately as follows: Without a single mention of his wife or his full-time cook who were there at home he shouted down the phone, “Get my cars out the garage now!”

    Murphy determined to rescue a corrupt and useless branch party and not helping the people of Scotland is doing the same thing.

    ‘Time Passes’ – Grouse Beater

  62. Davy says:

    A new dawn for the red tories with a new red tory leader, swiftly followed by the same old red tory lies and shite.

    I think we could be a witness one of the fastest car crashes ever by the new red tory leadership in Scotland, Murph-zilla appears to be under the impression he can say whatever he feels like and will be able to get off with it.

    Boy, is he in for one shit-cake of a surprise.

  63. fred blogger says:

    the half truth/lie statement is very corrosive.
    one cannot blame self for the lies of other’s, if they control the vitals of life, or have power and influence over them, we are often obliged to listen.
    we must ensure that bullies never prosper.

  64. BillDunblane says:

    Jim ‘poundshopporkie’ Murphy.


  65. Luigi says:

    Davy says:

    16 December, 2014 at 11:09 am

    A new dawn for the red tories with a new red tory leader, swiftly followed by the same old red tory lies and shite.

    I think we could be a witness one of the fastest car crashes ever by the new red tory leadership in Scotland, Murph-zilla appears to be under the impression he can say whatever he feels like and will be able to get off with it.

    Boy, is he in for one shit-cake of a surprise.

    And there in lies the big problem for JM. The BBC MSM treating this character with soft gloves will do him no favours at all – it will only encourage him to bullshit and bullshit his way out of trouble every time. It’s the only weapon he has. Again and again and again. Until one fine day, in the not too distant future, he gets careless, and says something really stupid. And then the shit hits the fan, folks.

    It’s only a matter of time.

  66. Stoker says:

    Skeletor seems to be now transferring his tripe via STV.

    I wonder if that has anything to do with the volume of complaints going into the BBC regarding the recent Slabber overload and the constant questioning of the Slabber membership numbers?

    This is why it’s important to complain every single time these ("Tractor" - Ed)s get to perpetuate their lies unchallenged on the BBC.

    We have to put a stop to this constant use of “BBC Scotland” as a Slabber mouthpiece with every news and political article now becoming nothing more than a free Slabber Party broadcast.

    You do not need a licence to make a complaint and you can easily do it online at BBC Complaints.

    If we don’t start acting now then we have no right to be moaning about it when they crank-it-up from January to May and if we let them away with it, it will severely damage our hopes come May.

    As for John McKay and STV, in the footage above, they have now lost all credibility as a serious and honest political broadcaster.

    To not challenge a blatant liar on 2 humungus lies stinks of sheer amateurism, at least, and pure corruption at worst – possibly both.

    I wonder if that programmes sponsors agree with the levels of lying and piss-poor presenting on display at STV?

    STV – broadcastings equivalent to the Daily Rectum.

  67. ronnie anderson says:

    Next round of membership offers for Labour party 2 for the price of 1 & buy a membership for Christmas for Family / Friend or is the latter already been done methinks (Falkirk).

    WOS as a non Partisan organization could crowdfund a large arena for Jim to answer questions from the public at large,Bbc might televise it. Our Christmas Gift to the Scottish People. awe rite shout at me if you want.

  68. Macart says:


    Its been driving me mad for days, but if its a toss up between envisioning Murphy or Mariah Carey for long periods of the day… 😀

  69. Greannach says:

    What drives Curran to keep on lying? Does she truly think people won’t find out? Has she such a low opinion of people in the East End of Glasgow? Some of us can read and even have computers.

  70. Chic McGregor says:

    Anyone know if it is within the remit of Holyrood to extend the concept of perjury to pronouncements made by elected representatives on public forums?

    If it is, then a Bill should be drafted pronto.

  71. Greannach says:

    It’s difficult for STV to catch up and try to behave like a serious news and current affairs broadcaster when for decades all they’ve had to do is report on football and/or some colourful Mr Glasgow characters reminiscing about shipyards.

  72. Free Scotland says:

    Even if the new Scottish Branch Manager offered memberships on a “buy-one-get-one-free” basis, his marketing campaign would still be a total flop. Too many people have seen right through the likes of Murphy and Dugdale, and hearing them asking people who have left labour to consider rejoining is like hearing a dog owner instructing his dog to eat its own vomit.

  73. Desimond says:


    Wow..thanks, I really should have known.
    Its even worse when you see it alongside Kezia’s recent rants about “College neglect”

    (apols cant archive from work pc)

  74. Adam says:

    If Curran says she voted to refuse the Infrastructure Bill a second reading, that means she voted No in the first reading – so what you’re describing isn’t a lie, because she doesn’t say how she voted in the second reading.

    Just saying – if those of us on the pro-independence side want to hold the mainstream media to account, we need to make sure our own statements are accurate.

  75. Steve Rankine says:

    STV has never recovered from losing Jim White and Charlie Nicholas….

    Labour are desperate, Murphy is desperate.

    Him being leader is them happy to hold whatever support they have left, whilst trying to get the Tory vote in Scotland.

    You only have to look at what happened in Renfrewshire with his constituency….that’s what he is looking for across Scotland, these middle class voters that seemed to vote No, he wants them to vote Labour.

    I don’t think he really cares about being called out on websites, but he should, as it’s how many people got switched onto politics and how to make an arse out of politicians like him.

  76. dan huil says:

    Bogof Labour.

  77. boris says:

    It’s taken David Cameron & Sir Jeremy Hayden 7 years of Machiavellian manipulation but they are almost there.

  78. Training Day says:

    Cook’s tweet sums up the degraded state of ‘journalism’ in Scotland because of its refusal to challenge Labour. ‘I’ve asked, been tellt, won’t investigate any further, now go away you irritant.’


  79. Jim says:

    The problem is not so much Murphy and Curran lying, it is the fact that MSM never hold them to account. If anybody from the SNP made these statements it would be the headline news on Reporting Scotland and the like.
    Having read the National a few times I am unimpressed by it’s lacking of any real news regarding these lies when on a daily basis these “politicians”, are exposed on this website as the scum that they undoubtedly are.
    That is part of the problem as, fantastic as it is, this website doesn’t reach near enough people but a publication like the National portraying itself as a supporter of independence can and should be following suit or better leading from the front in exposing these people on that said daily basis.
    I get the feeling that the publishers of the National have decided to bite the bullet and tap into what is after all a very lucrative market to prop up falling sales figures elsewhere.

  80. big jock says:

    Yes the Scotland top was farcical. I am surprised he wasn’t drinking more of his Irn Bru and chewing a McCowans toffee bar, just to prove he wasn’t a Brit anymore. Does he really think that’s what makes Yes voters tick! Does he think we are that shallow and brainless. “Look at me I am Scottish please join my party”! Good God he is even worse than Lamont, and has started with lies and will finish with lies.

  81. Stoker says:

    BBC TV Licensing accused of using G4S meter readers to spy.

    Also, according to various sources, Lewis Hamilton recently presented with the BBC Sports Personality of The Year doesn’t even have a TV Licence.

  82. Quentin Quale says:

    Labour in Scotland seem to have learned quite a lot from their recent referendum campaign. They are playing down the fearmongering and scare stories but ramping up the blatant lying. No msm to challenge them so they assume they will get away with it. They treated the people of Scotland with contempt when they were the Tories mouthpiece – this is beyond contempt.

  83. Ken500 says:

    The West Lothian question is a myth, but Cameron is trying to push EVEL through using Scottish MP’s. The deluded LibDems. Squealing like pigs.

    Reading a balance sheet has never been a Westminster accomplishment. Anyone who thinks the Unionists are winning is deluded.

  84. boris says:

    Methinks Rev. Stuart Campbell would be a shoo in for the Deputy Editor job advertised in the National. If not for him I would certainly give him his own daily column. Readership would massively increase as he brought to the Scottish public aspects of UK governance which are even now being avoided by the National. Today’s coverage was bland and focused more on events outwith Scotland at a time Spud Murphy is running loose in Scotland gaining maximum television,radio and press coverage airing blatant lies and at best distortions of the truth

  85. Stoker says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    “WOS as a non Partisan organization could crowdfund a large arena for Jim to answer questions from the public at large,Bbc might televise it. Our Christmas Gift to the Scottish People. awe rite shout at me if you want.”

    Ah canny shout fur laughin!

    I had a momentary vision of the Rev and that coward Skeletor sitting up on a stage in front of a packed Hydro and then the vision vanished, as fast as Skeletor, stage right – WHOOOOOSH!

  86. macbeda says:

    Is this whats happening in SLAB World

  87. EphemeralDeception says:

    Murphy is careful not to bare faced lie he qualifies his answers with ‘I think its’ etc.

    Curran on the other hand has a history of blatant lies directly deceiving the public and contradicting the official record. This is just the latest example but is something SNP/Greens etc can challenge when interviewed.

    In any live broadcast it is possible to stop and Ask Margaret Curran via the media to make a correction and explain her fabrications for example. It is time to force under the microscope what the media chose to ignore.

  88. Bob Sinclair says:

    NEW SLAB Anthem:
    I know a song that nearly everybody knows,

    I know a song that nearly everybody knows,

    I know a song that nearly everybody knows,

    And it goes something like this,

    New Jim, same as the first, but a little bit louder and a little bit worse.

    Repeat until insane.

  89. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bill McLean 11.04. Bill I dont read anything divisive or intolerant in Haggis H post 10.29 ( mibbee the West of scot thing in me)Murph Curran Lamont promote their Irish connections they well know that Votes are divided along sectarian lines as well as political lines,Wingers are of many religions & none & many political persuasions & none & many nationalities.Religion will always raise its ugly head in Scotland, but only if we let it.BTW my family name comes from the Norse (anderssen) & Im 100% Scottish.

  90. Capella says:

    But look at it this way: tomorrow he will be back on TV announcing that he has now reduced the cost of joining Labour. See? – sorted.
    Over on RT they have an article on anti-propaganda in London. Strike magazine have been creative.

  91. Craig Patrick says:

    In a BBC interview with Brian Taylor Mr Murphy stated:

    ” What the Scottish Labour Party does in the future is up to the Scottish Lavbour Party when it comes to devolved policy”

    This banal statement was portrayed as a Clause 4 moment despite a continuation of the “branch office” being funded and run by London.

  92. Kevin Evans says:

    Am so sorry stu for having to use this language but when it comes to referring to Mr Murphy there are no words too strong or crude to describe him.


  93. fred blogger says:

    they are desperate to put us back in our box and seal the lid firmly shut.
    our audacity to vote yes and mean it, in the face of full force of the UK state railed against us, has and will inspire others right across the UK to speak out for social justice.
    our legacy will be to have changed UK politics forever and we will also become indyscot sooner than many believe.
    see words of ghandi, who was inspired by the works of percy and mary shelly

  94. biggpolmont says:

    And if someone thinks its still too expensive to join I am sure they will be able to find someone in falkirk who will pay it for them even if they dont really want to join!

  95. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Jim Murphy – Voluntary or involuntary actions?

    An involuntary action is one which occurs without the conscious choice of an organism. If it occurs specifically in response to a stimulus, it will be known as a reflex.

    Involuntary actions may or may not occur with the awareness of the organism performing it.

    Involuntary actions are opposite of voluntary actions.

    Voluntary actions occur because of choice.

    When analysing the actions of Mr Murphy, what are we seeing? A politician so blinded by his own self-belief in himself that he reacts automatically in swerving from truth? You could ask; is Mr Murphy actually aware of every political statement and utterance that he makes?

    Alas, Mr Murphy is typical of his (historical) type. He merely sticks to the extreme political agenda that he dreams up in the quiet moments by himself; he looks to the world that he wants to create and occupy. A self-obsessed reflection is painted to have him in centre focus, but the edges blurred with noise which is usually perceived not to enhance his landscape. Everything outwith of the focal point is not pertinent to the world-view of Mr Murphy’s type.

    Like many obsessed and determined creatures, his is an auto-pilot approach; the involuntary action made large.

    These are not easy people to do battle with; voluntary actions do not merit much in their agenda. Theirs is a personal political dogma embraced and buried deep within their sinews long ago. The “stimulus” to involuntary action within them is naturally that which contradicts their perceptions……free thinking.

  96. heedtracker says:

    EVEL is probably even a bigger load of bollox than THE VOW. That balding BBC dude that looks and sounds like he’s from a British Pathe Empire rules 1920’s the planet news reel, Norman Smith is it, laid it all out for super cringer and proud Scot Jim Naughty this morn,
    1. EVEL is not a big deal in teamGB, much like Libdem electoral reform comedy referendum. England owns Scotland, why change it.

    2. NO gov can bind the next, so if Labour do win, they’d scrap it.

    3. By the time the next GE passes, it will all be dropped as no one in Westminster gives a shit anyway. And why would they, the system works for them and so what if a few more sweaties turn up with SNP badges on. Naughtie sez, it could even be as much 20 new SNP MP’s, ooh!
    Smith was educated at Oundle School and St Peter’s College, Oxford, where he read History and royals grovelling.

  97. William Hague talking about devolving more power to England in parliament.

  98. fred blogger says:

    ronnie anderson, what an excellent idea, fund a meet and greet with murphy with Q&A’s.
    ‘an evening with jim,’ hosted by the rev?
    bags i do the microphone volume’s.
    we can supply creates and irn bru as a rider.

  99. Luigi says:

    Grizzle McPuss says:

    16 December, 2014 at 12:34 pm

    In other words, he is a compulsive liar who, sooner or later is going to slip up. His big porkies will catch up with him eventually.

    It’s only a matter of time.

  100. Tartan Flower says:

    So he wants to change how his party is funded? Perhaps he could ask for a donation from his brothers in blue.

  101. Iain says:

    I wish I’d posted this earlier, so that it would be more prominent – it’s really worth reading:

    A Sad Day for Scotland – Jim Murphy is a Thug.

  102. Tobias Hendry says:

    Here is a true statement from Murphy in 2010. It’s a pity for him and his ‘Labour No’ buddies that he didn’t take his own advice.

    “If you vote like a Tory, if you speak like a Tory, if you act like a Tory, Scotland will treat you like a Tory,” Mr Murphy concluded.”

  103. Haggis Hunter says:

    BBC LabourServative are just so used to getting away with lies that they think it can continue this way.
    O/T Why was the name of the egg chucker, up in court not released?

  104. Ken500 says:

    The Tories are trying to use Scottish MP’s, the deluded LibDems to bring in EVEL. Turkeys voting for Christmas. Squealing like pigs. Just like Labour.

    It would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. Go on Moore vote for it.

  105. CameronB Brodie says:

    @ Jim Murphy
    Can I ask you to break character for a minute, and answer me truthfully as to why Israel merits statehood, yet Scotland doesn’t.

    Does an aggressive and racist nationalism founded on imperialist intervention (Zionism), trump civic nationalism founded on a centuries old Scottish identity and culture?

    You might want to confer with Margaret Curran on this one, as to the sustainability of a ‘one state solution’.

  106. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    Re Curran: strictly speaking you’re not quite correct. There were two votes – the first a motion to decline the second reading which Labour MPs (including Curran, though not Murphy, Brown and Darling) voted for ( However, the government voted the motion down. The second was the vote for the second reading itself which Labour MPs abstained from, having lost the first vote.

  107. The Man in the Jar says:

    at 12:47pm

    Good link worth reading. Thanks.

  108. KennyG says:

    Is anybody else screaming inside? If the real McKay was doing his job properly he would have been armed with the facts and would have put it to bed there and then. But then it’s a testament to the mainstream media that none of us are remotely surprised by this. Instead this lying bastard is allowed to lie to and mislead the public with impunity. It’s disgusting.

    One thing that still gets me through all this is “the settled will of the Scottish people.” “Look at us in our lofty pearch standing as champions of democracy”, said a Scottish conservative intending to vote Labour.

  109. Brian Fleming says:

    Regarding Labour and the truth, it was Peter Mandelson who once said on Sky News that “the job of a spin doctor is to manufacture the truth.” They live in their own poorly digested post-modernist fantasy, where what they feel would be useful at any given moment is, by definition, the truth. It is pointless to expect any objective truth from such people, as they live in a different reality in which objective truth does not exist.

  110. Desimond says:

    Anyone else shiver over last 24 hours whilst watching the oft shown coverage of Tony Blair being clapped by Neil Kinnock and Jim Callaghan when justifying rewriting ‘Clause 4’ as “Reclaiming Labours way”.

    Hearing Jim Murphy talk the same talk about rewriting Clause 4 for Scottish Labour only makes me wonder what right wing hell awaits them, and possibly worse, us.

  111. Cactus says:

    Good afternoon all readers post 18th September.. that Wee Blue Book was quite an eye opener eh?

    Rev Stu says above:
    “Just 10 MPs did, most of them from the SNP and Plaid Cymru, backed up by the sole Green and a couple of Northern Irish members. Labour in fact didn’t vote on the bill at all – it abstained, as it so often does on votes which are in any way uncomfortable.”

    This, bluntly, is why we all NEED to vote for a pro-Scottish party in our next General Election.

    Imagine there was a bill going through, to do something positive in Scotlands immediate interest, all the usual characters would probably abstain or vote against it. So where does that leave us? What do we do? What can we do?

    Answer: pro-Scottish bottoms (SCO) on Westminster (UK) seats.

  112. Fred says:

    Nice bit of research Tobias! 🙂

  113. Jack Straw asking Leader of The House for analysis on the impact of Scottish MPs on legislation concerning only England/Wales.
    Was it not 22 out of 3600 in the last 14 years, 0.6%.
    Surely these are the stories our MSM including the National and Ian MacWhirter should be writing about .
    It is called Investigative journalism a totally dead duck in Scotland. (Rev Stu being in Somerset)

  114. De Valera says:

    Another excellent article, this mans lies have to be exposed. Every day is another BBC/STV Murphy love in, even the Daily Mail were at it yesterday.

    It is time the National was as robust as this, after all the SNP get a daily roasting by the MSM.

  115. turnip_ghost says:

    I still cannot understand why not ONE journalist can compile these…”contradictions” shall we say..then present them to him or Curran or ANY number of MP’s. Imagine it. Someone who is willing to stand up and accuse them of either ignorance or being a liar!

    I very much doubt we would see ANY Unionist on the new TV channel, hopefully, coming because they might actually do that…

  116. Patrick Roden says:

    Ok peeps, so why not all take direct action by signing this petition to make it illegal for MP’s to lie to us.

    If this was made law our independence would be guaranteed!

  117. bookie from hell says:

    Labour raging over EVEL.,Westminster debate,Better Together walofs

  118. frankie goes to holyrood says:

    Iain Macwhirter, writing in the Herald, has warned online YES supporters to avoid intemperate personal attacks on Mr Murphy as this may play into his hands, as he could just point to nasty cybernats (again).

    Perhaps we thus comment that Mr Murphy is inconsistent and/or forgetful and perhaps did not have time to check facts prior to his interview?

  119. Andrew Walker says:

    SNP now calling for membership numbers of the branch office.

  120. big jock says:

    Not being cheeky but I thought he was an Eire supporter anyway!LOL. You know a plastic paddy type. I can get away with that as my ancestors were all Irish. I wonder if he has ever been to a Scotland game? Thought he would wear the top anyway.
    I don’t need to prove I am Scottish nor do I need to be Scottish to vote yes or want the best for Scotland. He is trying to hard now and its cringeworthy!

  121. Stoker says:

    Cactus says:
    “Answer: pro-Scottish bottoms (SCO) on Westminster (UK) seats.”

    Sure is, Cactus.

    Karma is a bitch and our bitch is about to start biting back.

    Scotland needs to rid herself of the LibLabCons.

  122. farrochie says:

    Letter in today’s National by Dave McEwan Hill says

    I believe the actual paid-up political membership of Labour in Scotland is now below 4,000

    The writer does not give a source for the figure.

  123. tombee says:

    Why don’t the Labour Branch Office hold a raffle. They could offer a first prize on one free membership and as a second prize they could offer two free memberships.

    They could charge 50 a ticket or two for a fiver. That would seem to be in keeping with their logic these days.

  124. bowanarrow says:

    Jim strikes me as the magicians assistant, while we are all watching his unbelievable goings on the magician is already started sawing us in two.

  125. heedtracker says: Wings over Scotland getting a spanking from vote NO teachers there. SNP and YES campaign told as many lies as BetterTogether UKOK.

    The vote NO teacher says SNP Scots have to raise council taxes, charge uni fees like what England does and end poverty in Scotland because the money going towards better pay for teaching and more money going to further education colleges for more opportunity for poor people. or

    “The SNP have been lying, spinning and/or standing idly by watching while we get on with things as best we can, and all their efforts go into trying together to blame Westminster for all the ills of the world while simultaneously patting themselves on the back for anything good that happens.

    They can’t have it both ways. And if Scotland is going to be the successful country we all want it to be, independent or otherwise, that needs to start with honesty. We aren’t getting that from our Govts, be they based in London or Edinburgh, and we didn’t get it from either campaign during the referendum. I’m not going to vote for the biggest political, bureaucratic, administrative and social change in the country’s history based on a pack of lies. I’m not going to vote for the undeniable hard times that would follow a Yes vote without knowing that I can trust those who have asked for my trust”

    Strong stuff. SNP has cut FE college places but this NO rage takes the easiest vote NO cringe of all and the usual proud Scot but cringer route is? avoiding the giant how did we get here then query. At the very least proud Scot but no voters can rely on honest future Scots First Minister Jim Murphy to tell them the truth and how Labour in Scotland will certainly raise council taxes, scrap university fees, joyfully raise Scottish teachers pay… sorry, laughing so hard at this my carer’s coming with a sedative.

  126. Patrick Roden says:

    Mr MacWhirter blames ‘cybernatz’ for losing the referendum!

    That’s taking the biscuit Ian!

    It was your friends in the media, the ones who lied themselves or were prepared to print /broadcast lies from the BT campaign that were the reason we had our democracy stolen.

    It’s gutless (so called) journalists who are the enemies of Scotland and I mean enemies!

  127. Les Wilson says:

    It is high time politicians are held legally to account for telling provable lies in order to influence the voting public. We saw it day in and day out during the Indy run up, and we know the consequences.

    This practice has to be stopped, no wonder after the event, when the truth gets out people get angry about it.
    Yet, they can walk away smiling, job done!
    It is not good enough, high time they paid the penalty.

  128. big jock says:

    We lost the referendum for 3 reasons and nothing to do with the yes campaign. Firstly the Brit nats 20% who would vote no event if they took away their grannies pensions. Then the Fearties who were scared of their own shadows and in the end voted no out of sheer terror or having to be a grown up nation 20%. The other 15% were the middle classes and self preservation types.

    Do not look to blame those who voted yes. Instead ask why if Scotland is a nation should the question even have to be asked in the first place!

  129. Stoker says:

    @ Patrick Roden.

    First of all i compliment you on your efforts, your heart and mind are in the right place.

    Please excuse my scepticism when i say that these petitions are not worth a rats erse.

    I have witnessed one (from another company you may of heard of) being hijacked and used by a filthy ("Tractor" - Ed) whom i despise. That petition gained somewhere in the region of 120K signatures and ended up doing us and our cause not one ounce of good.

    I have witnessed another petition by NNS gather over 25k signatures only to be completely ignored by the con that was the Smith Commission.

    I could give you a list of examples but i think i’ve made my point and hope you understand when i say what’s the point, i don’t think they get us anywhere.

    I wish i could be more positive about these petitions but experience has taught me differently.

    Unless someone can show me a few recent examples of ones which have helped to make a difference i don’t think i’ll be convinced.

    Good luck in your aims.

    btw, Patrick, i notice that the petition is to get them to stop lying inside “Parliament.” In Scotland that’s not so much the problem because the SNP don’t let them away with it. The problem we have, as you are probably aware, is most of these lying scumbags routinely do it from the relatively safe haven of a compliant and colluding TV/Radio station or press release.
    How do we put a stop to that?
    There are supposed to be organisations set up to “regulate” these outlets but as we all know they are as useless as the outlets.

  130. Luigi says:

    farrochie says:

    16 December, 2014 at 1:44 pm

    Letter in today’s National by Dave McEwan Hill says

    I believe the actual paid-up political membership of Labour in Scotland is now below 4,000

    The writer does not give a source for the figure.

    It’s up to the Red Tories to disprove it.
    A figure of “below 4,000” sounds about right.

  131. Ken500 says:

    The Referendum was lost because of Unionists cheating, lies and the VOW. The promise of full fiscal autonomy which has now been reneged on. The liars will reap what they sow.

  132. tombee says:

    Sorry OT,

    Today’s National, criptic crossword, one across,
    What Labour is in Scotland, critics say, 6 and 6,?.
    ANSWER, Really Fucked ?.

  133. Stoker says:

    Let “STV” know your disapproval at their collusion in Skeletors lies.

    Click on the link and scroll down to “General enquiries and complaints” – demand answers.

  134. Helena Brown says:

    Stoker says: With regard to the lies told inside and outside of Parliament. I would actually like to see these people being told that if they repeat these scurrilous lies outside the house they will be sued. They seem to go without fear, going onto repeating them willy nilly and if nobody in the MSM are going to hold them to account then perhaps the courts are the only place.

  135. Desimond says:

    While the Establishment continue to ignore the SNP actually being the party in power, was interesting to see STV News seek public opinion on Jim Murphy taking over.

    They could only find 2 Labour voters, 1 was a member who actually voted for him whilst you almost heard the camera-man sigh when a guy replied “I hate Scottish Labour!” after another guy had told of his Road to Damascus conversion from Labour to SNP following “Labours Blair years”.

    Jim is not the Messiah…he and his crew are still viewed very much as the naughty boys!

  136. Ken500 says:

    Scotland raises more in taxes and spends less but spends more on NHS/Education (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. The SNP protect NHS/Education. Some teachers need an education. Some of them can’t read a balance sheet or understand how the Barnett formula works and support Labour. Some teachers would rather spend £Billions on Trident and illegal wars than education.

    The money – £Billions – Westminster have wasted on illegal Wars/Trident, tax evasion and banker fraud could have educated half the world. £1.3Trillion. The National Debt.

  137. Helena Brown says:

    Haggis Hunter says:
    16 December, 2014 at 12:53 pm
    O/T Why was the name of the egg chucker, up in court not released?
    Sorry but it was, by the name of Stuart Mackenzie, so called independence supporter.

  138. Cactus says:

    Here’s a question you could try asking someone of the ‘proud Scot but’ persuasion..

    “It’s heartening to know that you consider yourself to be a proud Scot, but have you ever considered yourself to be a passionate Scot?” No buts!

    What’s LOVE without PASSION?

  139. muttley79 says:

    @bookie from hell

    Labour raging over EVEL.,Westminster debate,Better Together walofs

    That is because they see their career paths to high political office at Westminster being permanently eliminated. That is why Darling was so annoyed with Cameron on the 19th of September. Take away their opportunities to be PM, Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, Defence Secretary etc, and they will become much less interested in fighting for the Union in future.

  140. Quentin Quale says:

    Thought I’d contact Labour in Scotland for clarification on this issue – still laughing on finding on their website that they have a ‘Truth Team – Find out the Facts and Expose the Myths’. Beyond parody. These pronouncements are superb examples of Orwellian doublespeak. Eric Blair must be birling at a helluva rate.

  141. Dr Jim says:

    What’s Ian MacWhirter got against the truth, is that not supposed to be the basis of his job, to find the truth and shine a light upon it, or is there another reason he has a problem with people who try to expose those who would seek to subvert honesty, or as a newspaper man is the worry that internet sites such as Wings perform the function he and his fellows should, does he in fact have more in common with self obsessed lunatics like Alan Cochrane than objective journalism, are all us Cybernatty evil people wrong, if we are at any time not being factual, is not your job Mr MacWhirter to then expose that. Both ways you cannot have it Ian old son, sliding backwards an forwards between all worlds gets you contempt and you will deserve it. Do your job, you have a newspaper voice to do it, do’nt criticise those who have none and use the only way open to make their opinion heard, that’s whether you like it or not, so get over it and grow up…I am Alex Salmond

  142. think again says:

    Some thoughts on comments by H @ 10.57 and farrochie @ 1.44 regarding membership figures.

    Dave McEwan Hill believes it to be, in mainstream media print, at 4000, I don`t believe his lawyers will be troubled by Jim`s. The earlier comment by H might I believe also be on the generous side at 2666 as the income figure also included a contribution by the affiliated and party organisations in Scotland. This is from their audited accounts available at

    I believe Jim Murphy might have erred on the high side, perhaps he will correct this during tomorrow`s daily Murphy.

  143. Nana Smith says:

    Want a laugh??

    DUMBARTON and Vale MSP Jackie Baillie has been handed the Finance remit on the shadow cabinet.

  144. Stoker says:

    @ Helena Brown.
    I like that idea and would go one step further in wanting to see
    a law introduced to make prosecution of these liars easier.
    Sick to the back teeth of it and something has to be done.


    4th November 2014
    BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell states that
    Slabber “have a membership of over 13,000.”

    19th November 2014
    BBC Chief Political Correspondent Laura Kuenssberg states that
    Slabber “have a membership of fewer than 17,000.”

    13th December 2014
    BBC Scotland Correspondent James Cook states that
    Slabber “have a membership of 14,000.”

    13th December 2014
    BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell decides to contradict
    his previous lie and state that Slabber have 14,000 members.

    14th December 2014
    WOS Journalist and Owner Stuart Campbell reveals why he thinks
    the true figure of Slabber membership could be closer to 7000.

    15th December 2014
    Slabber manager, Skeletor, states on STV that he thinks his
    branch office has 20,000 members and then states another lie
    about SNP membership fees.

  145. jackie g says:

    Saw this today and thought it was very positive, just a shame better together decided to turn a positive campaign into one of desperate fear and intimidation.

    The Scottish independence referendum was “well run” and an example to be followed, according to the election watchdog.

    they also go on to say,

    John McCormick, Electoral Commissioner for Scotland, said: “On almost every measure of participation the referendum exceeded anything we have seen before and people overwhelmingly said they found the experience of voting positive.

  146. SquareHaggis says:

    Bit of a gaffe really.

    Telling everyone it’s £39 dearer to join the Labour party looks a lot less attractive than a pound for the SNP, especially in these times of austerity.

    Unless he’s looking to secure Tory votes for Tory money.

    Basically telling those who can’t afford it, like the hard working families he spouts on about so readily, to take a hike.

    Membership will fall.

  147. Ken500 says:

    The North/South divide. Tell the truth south of the border that’s alright. Tell the truth in Scotland. That’s the terrible CyberNats. Attempted Press censorship that will not work. Double standards.

    It’s easier for the lazy ‘Press’ to just accept political hand out for extortionate salaries. Westminster controls the Press. If they print the truth they can get arrested. Just ask the two faced Guardian. Clegg/Cameron put the heavies in to vandalise the Press room. Their Chief has just retired. Coincide?. Publishing panny Unionist articles. The constant Gov surveillance.

    Westminster slap on ‘D’notices to keep their secrets.

  148. fred blogger says:

    yes, murphy is implying/admitting that the SNP are very good with the economy, which in fact they are.

  149. Eugene Fraxby says:

    “If this is Peter Jones the economics journalist I find it hard to believe that this Dundee High School FP is well-connected in Scottish Labour circles through any other channel than his NUJ card.”

    I thought Peter was married to Rhona Brankin, the former Labour MSP.

  150. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. Stuart Mackenzie.

    I would like to know why Jim Murphy’s security team stood watching with hands in pockets, as the vicious attack was not over in the blink of an eye. I would also like to know why they did not try to apprehend Stu as he walked away, all be it at a brisk pace.

    I still smell something rather unpleasant.

  151. Brian says:

    Another fine piece of detective work and analysis by WoS. I am so grateful for your perseverance and commitment. The scales are still falling from eyes. These people are beyond description. Roll on May 2015.

  152. Stoker says:


    4th November 2014
    BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell states that
    Slabber “have a membership of over 13,000.”

    19th November 2014
    BBC Chief Political Correspondent Laura Kuenssberg states that
    Slabber “have a membership of fewer than 17,000.”

    13th December 2014
    BBC Scotland Correspondent James Cook states that
    Slabber “have a membership of 14,000.”

    13th December 2014
    BBC Political Correspondent Glenn Campbell decides to contradict
    his previous lie and state that Slabber have 14,000 members.

    14th December 2014
    WOS Journalist and Owner Stuart Campbell reveals why he thinks
    the true figure of Slabber membership could be closer to 7000.

    15th December 2014
    Slabber manager, Skeletor, states on STV that he thinks his
    branch office has 20,000 members and then states another lie
    about SNP membership fees.

    16th December 2014
    Dave McEwan Hill explains in a Scottish newspaper, The National,
    why he believes the true figure to be much closer to 4000.

    I hereby call on all you involved with the Scottish branch of the UK Labour Party to bring your proof to the table and prove to us all that Stuart Campbell and Dave McEwan Hill are wrong in their figures.

    Tic Toc, Slabber, Tic Toc.

  153. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Grizzle McPuss 12.38 Is they,re a Dr before McPuss how did you get Murph on the couch lol.

  154. heedtracker says:

    Well that’s me told! OK so Jim Murphy is a bloody nice guy and cybernats need to f off and die and maybe not vote for all new Labour in Scotland, but it was them wot lost it.

    Personally I’d have thought the real headline was the BBC/UKOK wide media vote Jim Murphy or else blitzkrieg that was dumped on us over the weekend. BBC were absolutely spectacular in their historic efforts to get us to vote for whatever con Murphy’s now peddling but that’s all fine and dandy is it? Where I am, BBC news blasted out vote Murphy every half hour for starters, much like say their Vote Nob Orders campaign via liggers ligger Gavin Estler but lets all kick a few cybernats going WTF is going on in teamGB, its like the week before the referendum all over again.

    Whatever the Herald’s paying oor Ian, its too much or not enough, cybernat balancing of judgement there, the clown.

  155. Helena Brown says:

    Heedtracker @3.49pm, I have never really taken word written by Ian McWhirter seriously for years. He cannot make up his mind where he is on the matter of whether Scotland should or should not be independent, so if you have been told of consider yourself and probably me worried by a toothless sheep.

  156. Graeme Doig says:

    Re the accountability of this mad sociopath. Nicola Sturgeon has to insist that his lap dug dale answers for her masters comments as he flits from one tv studio to another spouting deception.

    He is currently answerable to no one and that is a dangerous state of affairs.

    I totally agree that he is so deeply into his own slurry that he is bound to trip himself up eventually but it is galling having to listen to him get away with so much in the meantime.

    I look forward to NS dismantling both of them at FMQ’s.

  157. heedtracker says:

    Just caught up with Herald/MacWhirter welcome Jim Murphy we love you and wish I hadn’t

    “However, no-one really believes that is possible. And if Murphy only claws back 10 points or so in the polls, then he saves a lot of seats. Remember, the SNP only won six MPs in the 2010 General Election against Labour’s 41 in Scotland. There are no Labour seats in Scotland where the SNP is less than 10 points behind.”

    Murphy “saves” Labour seats does he?

    and what WTF does this mean?

    “When Murphy first put his hat in the ring for leader, I said he would have to undergo an ideological brain transplant to lead the Scottish Labour Party. Well, the operation appears to have been a success. For now, at least, we are looking at New Jim – Man Of The People and True Scot.”

    First we got proud Scot buts and now its True Scots. How do you test for true Scotness anyway? Must be satire.

    Jim Murphy’s a True Scot now so, Proud True Scot Buts, vote Labour in Scotland.

  158. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    Ian MacWhirter and Gerry Hassan are no friends of the SNP.

    Hassan is still a Labour man and at the slightest hint of a resurgence in their fortunes would jump ship. MacWhirter is a UK Federalist in the old Liberal tradition and views independence with stifled alarm. Any hint of more powers for Scotland and a passing reference to the word federalism would get him swooning, starstruck and selling his journalistic soul, as he dashes supporting pen to paper.

  159. Sinky says:

    Broty Boy at 10.25

    Peter Jones is well connected to Labour. To be fair he is a bit more measured than the rantings of Brian Wilson and John McTernan.

    Scotsman columnist and economist Peter Jones is married to Scottish Labour politician Rhona Brankin The former Scottish Executive minister who retired in 2011.

  160. Desimond says:

    This just beggars belief from Scottish Labour…
    Murphy defending his new Cabalet, I mean Cabinet

    “..and even someone who didn’t vote for anyone in the ballot.”

    How can anyone with any respect be in a position of authority in a party that cant even be arsed voting for the people running that party. Truly shambolic!

  161. cirsium says:

    @ Nana Smith, 3.26

    Very interesting article, Nana. Thanks for the link.

  162. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Jim Murphy is a congenital liar and not a bright one at that.

    He has become used to be able to lie as he willed without being brought to book, as the unionist press and Labour BBC would cover his odious tendencies.

    When confronted with his lies, as never happens by any of our forth estate, by a member of public he hectors, bullies and shouts the person down or, simply ignores them and their question.

    He fails to recognise that we know and we tell others his mendacious traits. They see them and pass it on. It is all a bit viral, which is an appropriate word for Murphy; something that infects, weakens and can kill the host.

    I hope he kills the Labour Party in Scotland.

  163. Desimond says:

    Purely a coincidence that SNP is on the rise and Labour in turmoil in an election year…..BBC Radio Scotland announce a new 2015 format…key changes include:

    A new three-hour morning discussion programme hosted by Kaye Adams will replace Morning Call

    Speaking about the changes Kaye Adams said: “This new show will allow us to really discuss and dissect the issues of the day – and put our decision-makers on the spot.”

  164. Famous15 says:

    I think what McWhirter is saying is do not snatch failure from the jaws of victory.

    I have read so much OTT stuff about the somewhat unpleasant Mr Murphy and hands up I suggested he was an excellent snake oil seller but perhaps some people are turned off by that, So let’s be subtle.

    Mr Murphy has assembled a widely skilled team so let us hear their ideas in detail. The SNP Government have said the door is always open to good ideas.They will implement good ideas so let us hear them!

    Always do yor best for Scotland.OK!

  165. heedtracker says:

    @ Helena Brown, it all just looks like McWhirter wants the red tory story to go away and he really hopes against they have become a left of centre Labour outfit from the 30’s, over the weekend, in the blink of any eye, under permission from the BBC etc. Anyway, if any of this con is even remotely possible let alone true, isn’t pressure for the 45% YES votes forcing red tory Labour to actually do stuff what people want from their government? and hows that for McWirterwesque naivety and wishfully thinking. His “True Scot” stuff is really bockin though.

  166. Sinky says:

    As Adam Ramsay former NUS chief says on Murphy’s tactics:

    And, thirdly, this triangulation won’t work because the voters who have swung from Labour to the SNP have done so not because they are soft nationalists who love a saltire, but because they are soft socialists who see the SNP as sitting to the left of Labour. Sounding like a patriot will do little to win those people over.

    If all of this sounds bleak for Murphy, that’s, largely, because that’s how things are – but for one glimmer of hope. One of the key reasons Labour has fallen apart since 2007 is that it’s been driven more by hatred of the SNP than by a coherent plan of its own. Murphy is utterly loathed by many yes supporters. There are huge numbers who now see their primary job as destroying him and his party. And, that kind of hatred eats movements alive.

    If he can wind his opponents up until they look as bitter, nasty and directionless as his party has appeared for most of the last decade, then maybe, just maybe, he will have tricked them into giving him a chance. If they just ignore him, and let him get on with tacking and jiving in a hunt for long shifted trade winds, it seems fair to assume his party slowly, gradually, loyal supporters still fondly clinging on, will sink.

  167. MarkAustin says:

    Helena Brown says:

    16 December, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    Stoker says: With regard to the lies told inside and outside of Parliament. I would actually like to see these people being told that if they repeat these scurrilous lies outside the house they will be sued. They seem to go without fear, going onto repeating them willy nilly and if nobody in the MSM are going to hold them to account then perhaps the courts are the only place.

    Some of the problems with Westminster is that there is a parliamentary convention that members do not lie, and therefore any such accusation is an offence by the person making the accusation, and can result in suspension from the House. This means two things: blatant lies can be told; and can only be challenged by circumlucations which are so cumbersome that they go over most people’s heads. Also, once a statement is made in Parliament, any reporting or repeating of it is covered by Parliamentary privilige—which means there can be no legal challenge to it, and also makes a direct charge of lying a breach of Parliamentay privilige, again making challenging it tricky.

    This attitude of mind tends to “carry over” to other matters, making journalists reluctant to expose open lies until they get too blatant

  168. michael says:

    There is something deeply sinister and menacing about Jim Murphy.

    He tells bare faced lies while staring at the interviewer, who know its lies, almost daring them to ask a follow up question. They seem to be too scared to drill down past the first and only question on each topic.

    It makes me want to hold up my new £10 per month SNP membership card like a crucifix to a vampire.

  169. K1 says:

    Thanks for that link Nana, nice to see you back too 🙂

    Think it really articulates where things stand for Labour in Scotland right now…and yes that last paragraph, Sinky, is a far more intelligent articulation of what MacWhirter made a complete hash of in his outpourings.

  170. muttley79 says:

    I think what Iain Macwhirter was saying was that if too many people from the Yes side give Jim Murphy abuse then it will play right into his hands. Adam Ramsay says the same thing in the article Sinky quotes from. I think the advice that they are trying to give is to ignore Murphy because he feeds off ill feeling. I think it is very sound advice. Do not make the mistake of putting Murphy centre stage because we dislike him. He tried to stir up reaction against him during the referendum and succeeded. Lets not play into his hands again.

  171. Bill McLean says:

    Ronnie – it’s not your reading of Haggis H post at 1029 I’m getting at it’s the way people like Murphy can/will use any appearance on here of intolerance whether racial or religious! You say yourself that “Wingers” are of many persuasions and none – let’s keep it that way. “Religion will always raise it’s ugly head in Scotland. But only if we let it”. Well let’s not let it!

  172. Stoker says:

    Two questions for the new Slabber branch manager:

    (1)-With your recent claims of autonomy will you be publishing your own manifesto?

    (2)-With your recent claims of autonomy will you be changing your party logo?

    After-all, the Rose is not only the logo for the UK Labour Party, it is also the emblem of England, or does your “autonomy & patriotism” not stretch that far?

  173. heedtracker says:

    Another day, another spectacular/dreary teamGB fraud pumps out the UKOK con from rancid Guardian’s year summary of teamGB greatness, long to reign over us, happy and glorious, god save teamGB, lol

    “The Yes campaign made steady ground in the polls until, with just a fortnight to go, it nudged ahead for the first time and panic swept through Westminster. In the event the union survived, Scots voting 55.3% to 44.7% in favour, but only thanks to hastily assembled cross-party pledges of substantial further devolution from London.

    A historic deal in November gave Holyrood direct control over £14bn ($22bn) worth of tax and welfare policy. But the longer-term consequences for the union may lie south of the border, where England’s disgruntled regions eye Scottish gains with envy.”

    Doesn’t Holyrood already “control” £14bn ($22bn) worth of tax and welfare policy? so what’s historic about it honest newspaper of the year Guardian or, how much our fellow countrymen are prepared to shit all over Scottish democracy.

  174. Wee Alex says:

    I agree that attacks on Murphy should not be personal and could be counter productive.

    There is enough factual information out there to expose his right wing credentials without the need for unnecessary personalisation.

    Let’s wait and see his Clause 4, let’s wait and see if Milliband is prepared to accept them, let’s wait and see if Labour in Scotland really is independent both in policy terms and financially.

    Let’s wait and see if he is willing to debate with opposing politicians, instead of pretend interrogation by Labour friendly media.

    Many believe it was Murphys whispering campaign that led to Lamonts resignation. Let’s wait and see if the enemies within are content.

    Finally let’s see where Westminster opinion polls are in the New Year.

  175. No no no...Yes says:

    Sinky 4:27pm and others

    “If he can wind his opponents up until they look as bitter, nasty and directionless as his party has appeared for most of the last decade, then maybe, just maybe, he will have tricked them into giving him a chance. If they just ignore him, and let him get on with tacking and jiving in a hunt for long shifted trade winds, it seems fair to assume his party slowly, gradually, loyal supporters still fondly clinging on, will sink.”

    McWhirter and Adam Ramsay have today both pointed out the potential problems for pro-indy folks like us going overboard with personal comments about Murphy et al. Coupled with the fact that the MSM and the political opposition check Wings and other websites craving that we give them ammunition, we would be wise to acknowledge the situation and act accordingly. We want undecided voters to read Wings and follow our cause.

    Adam Ramsay in particular hits the nail on the head. As we all know Murphy is dangerous. Remember, he succeeded in his wind-ups during the campaign and he is capable of doing something similar again. The General Election is an important step on our journey to independence and I would hate to think we will present the MSM and Unionist parties opportunities to divert attention to pro-indy supporters for the wrong reasons. This website’s rules on posting are clear and we should abide by them. Time to get of my soapbox now.

  176. Ken500 says:

    Murphy gave people abuse. He is a born liar. He as supported every vicious Westminister policy. He went out to cause as much trouble as he could to line his pockets. The rest of them are bad enough but these two unelected bampots have never had a job in their life. People are expected not to comment according to a sanctimoniius ‘journalist’. Aye right. Let’s pussy foot around Jim. Aye and don’t mention the war. Forget it.

  177. galamcennalath says:

    My only questions for Murphy would be ..

    Will SLab be allowed to have different policies for Scotland from LonLab on reserved issues? And, if so, what mechanism do you intend to use to get those unique policies for Scotland passed at Westminster?

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Human rights lawyer Niall McLuskey QC, who works with Amnesty International, told CommonSpace that Murphy’s affiliation with the HJS raises “serious questions”, while Dr Nafeez Ahmed, author and executive director of the Institute for Policy Research and Development (IPRD), described it as “very worrying”.

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    Hope this isn’t considered abuse.
    Human rights lawyer Niall McLuskey QC, who works with Amnesty International, told CommonSpace that Murphy’s affiliation with the HJS raises “serious questions”, while Dr Nafeez Ahmed, author and executive director of the Institute for Policy Research and Development (IPRD), described it as “very worrying”.

  180. manandboy says:

    To talk about Murphy is to follow Murphy.
    To follow him is to be led by him.
    Need I go on.

    There is value and gain to be had in studying Murphy’s tactics. We failed somewhat to do that in IndyRef and ended up losing everything.

    But to fixate on Murphy is exactly what the BBC and the Daily Record do. Maybe we talk so much about him because we see him so often on the telly and read about him so much in the DR. On an everyday basis, whose side are we on?

    Are we really OK with doing the exact same thing as the Unionists? Soaking up all Murphy’s propaganda?

    If all 1.6 million Yes voters stopped watching the BBC and stopped buying the DR or whatever, the battle would be nearly won already.

    I know it is not easy to change. It took my famiy 2 years to chuck live TV; and the mother-in-law refuses steadfastly to abandon her beloved DR. Just as many still cling to their beloved Labour party.

    We Scots are very conservative as a nation. We prefer the comfort, the security and the familiarity of what we’ve always done in the past, although in truth we are also very selective about it, but won’t easily admit it.

    Securing Independence will require us to learn to change.

    Time to start practising.

  181. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bow down to your masters, folks. England owns you. Democracy in the UK, is dead.

    England won’t put up with Scotland’s behaviour for long
    Do the people and politicians of Scotland honestly think they can continue demanding a series of referendums in perpetuity?

    Well, Scotland can stay drunk if it wants. But England isn’t going to keep picking up the tab. These issues didn’t really matter much in England so long as they remained on the political back-burner. But the Scots keep insisting on pushing them onto the front burner. And in Ukip, England now has its very own SNP. English votes for English laws are the minimum that is required to head off a serious backlash.

  182. Tony Sutton says:

    Curran and Murphy, what fag-ends of politicians. Let’s stub them out at the ballot box next year.

  183. heedtracker says:

    Torygraph very blue Tory “likes” for NOT red Tory Jim Murphy too, but Tory boys are beginning to lose patience with all this Scottish nonsense. Thanks again Proud True Scots Buts. Dont know this torygraph boy, not Comical Cockers but still great.

    We are a nation apparently but a nation of drunks. On English greatness and how very dare they, who the hell do they think they are anyway etc

    “We are part of a political union. It is a union that was reaffirmed, by the Scottish people, a couple of months ago. And we all have a stake in that union. Even us knuckle-draggers south of the border.

    Do the people and politicians of Scotland honestly think the rest of the United Kingdom is going to simply sit back while they carry on the way they’ve been carrying on before, during and after September’s referendum? Do they genuinely believe they can continue demanding a series of referendums on independence in perpetuity, until they get the result right, or get bored of asking the question? When Jim Murphy boasts “what happens in Scotland will be decided in Scotland” does he not wonder what conclusion his English colleagues and the people they represent will draw? Did Darling, Brown and Alexander honestly think they could unilaterally rewrite the UK constitution, and offer “Scottish Home Rule”, funded via the Barnett Formula, without any English reaction at all?

    Scotland is a nation that has become drunk on constitutional arrogance and self-righteousness. “We might stay in the union. We might not stay in the union. We’ll let you know when we’re good and ready.” “Better off together? Forget that. You keep your noses out. What happens in Scotland will be decided in Scotland.” “What? You want English votes for English laws? Who the hell do you think you are? You can talk about that in due time. Now shut up, and keep writing the cheques, or we’re off.”
    Well, Scotland can stay drunk if it wants. But England isn’t going to keep picking up the tab.

  184. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, here’s the same link.

  185. Stoker says:

    michael says:
    “There is something deeply sinister and menacing about Jim Murphy.”

    I firmly believe he is THE most dangerous politician to enter Scottish politics, in my adult life.

    He is extremely divisive, has no scruples whatsoever, has more faces than any town clock and constantly lies without even flinching.

    He has openly stated that his intentions are to be FM and then devolve as many powers as possible away from the devolved Scottish parliament to local authorities while keeping the real powers of any true nation in the hands of Westminster.

    Therefore leaving Scotland even more impotent and a bigger laughing stock than it already is.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it were ever revealed that he was being supported and driven by forces outwith Westminster, and it started long before the 18th September 2014.
    Just a gut feeling, nothing more.

    When these ("Tractor" - Ed)s stop sh!tt!ng on my country and spreading their lies i might think more of them but until that day comes they’ll get all the respect they deserve from me – zero.

  186. izzie says:

    It is up to we yessers to get ourselves on these phone ins and ask ackward questions.

  187. Nana Smith says:

    Reactionary name calling will get us nowhere. Leave that to the unionists for if we don’t they will use it to their advantage. Yessers bad, SNP bad, Indy bad.

    Yes we were maligned throughout the campaign and they will continue to cast slurs and lies, but we must grit our teeth.

    Believe me I don’t know how I still have any teeth left.

  188. Fiona says:

    And in Ukip, England now has its very own SNP. English votes for English laws are the minimum that is required to head off a serious backlash.

    What does that even mean?

    A backlash like deciding to leave the union?

    Bring it…..

  189. Grouse Beater says:

    What is ‘personal’ about attacks on Jim Murphy?

    He is so obviously wildly, grossly unsuitable for the post he has managed to grasp. He sold Scotland down the river and now comes paddling back to sell us canoes.

    Giving a politician a cutting name is an accurate method of identification of his attitude and political stance, a way of letting him no he is not and never will be forgiven for betraying the people they said they represented.

    Are we to give him respect?

    His presentation is appalling. His holier than thou hides a nasty temper. He’s lost the Ranger’s vote.

    He does look as and sound as if dug up and should be reburied – immediately.

  190. I Emailed Margaret Curran asking her why she lied to her constituents. No reply so far. Wonder why?

  191. Ken500 says:

    The only changes that have come is by criticism, and not accepting the status quo. The majority opposed the Iraqi War and the lies, the majority oppose food banks and sanctions, torture, supporting apartheid States, absolute despot monarchies, breaking international wars and the hypocrites who support them. Lying and secretly stealing from Scotland for years to fund their illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. Thatcher and the McCrone Report but do not hold them to account or Murphy will not pleased. Aye right. It’s ‘journalists’ who should be holding them to account not protecting them. The Referendum was lost because of their cheating and lies. They are now paying the price. Save the crocodile tears.

  192. Author_Al says:

    Mr Mcwhirter can say what he likes about folks on here I guess, but I would rather he – and fellow so called journalists – take Stu’s brilliant investigative posts and get the truth out there. Labour offer nothing new, are deceitful and untrustworthy and desperate. Scottish Govt needs to be far more robust in its response to lies and cover ups. Mr Murphy needs to be made to explain what he knows about the CIA flights from Scottish airports, why he cosies up to the Henry Jackson Society, why he has inflated SLAB membership, why he won’t refer to Westminster by name, why he only wants to make decisions about devolved matters, why he bothers to exist…

  193. liz says:

    I agree about Jim Murphy being a very dangerous man and that’s why l wasn’t happy at him getting voted in.

    If Sarah Boyack or Neil Findlay had got in they would have been easy to oppose.

    I also believe he has got backing in high places.

  194. K1 says:

    When you think of the attention that Murphy drew from the media over his ‘irn bru crate’ tour and in particular how he used it to call foul with the egg incident, it was clear even at the time on Wings that he was ‘stirring’ just for this very effect.

    Rarely has this not been referenced in articles about him and in broadcast reporting since the referendum. He merely hammered home the idea that the Yes side was full of ‘natz’ etc and all the concommitant associations that went with this, feeding into the ‘fear factor’ which was essentially part of their game plan. This actually may well have had a ‘positive’ effect for the No campaign. And may well be a fundemental tactic that they deliberately use to their advantage.

    It makes complete sense then, that they will use what they consider effective over and over again. Although as has been mentioned on other threads, its power is much lessened by people being more informed on what they are really about. Nonetheless, it’s difficult not to ‘take the bait’ because of the sheer gall of the man and the MSM’s free pass when it comes to holding him to account.

    This is exactly the area that we get ‘wound up’ about. ‘Cause we are mostly honest people seeing the situation as it is and it’s like; ‘CAN NO ONE SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM?’ The tendency then in the face of the powerlessness we feel is to attack the bastards for what they are doing, and vent our spleen, I think, quite rightly at them. But this is then attacked by those same bastards who have the advantage of the free pass to paint us as ‘nutjobs’ to a much wider audience who are not as informed, and so don’t really understand why we are so ‘wound up’ by the bastards in the first place!

    They win, people like Murphy ‘win’ on this ground because, as is often outlined on here, they have the MSM acting as loud hailer for their agenda.

    Countermeasures. Switch off from the MSM. Make posters, talk to people. I can’t watch any news anymore. I actually use Wings as my go to for what is happening in Scotland politically. If the Rev isn’t flagging it, it ain’t worth a sh** as far I’m concerned now.

  195. heedtracker says:

    If I was an actual Proud True Scot But thinking about voting for the Herald’s McWhirter vote for that really lovely Jim Murphy’s New Old Nice Labour in Scotland luv in, I’d be curious as to why The Daily Telegraph, Daily Record, BBC etc are so hysterically desperate for me to vote Murphy and Labour next May.

    The Herald, Daily Rancid, BBC in Scotland and the Torygraph united in what? Maybe Comical Cockers will tell us, he says he knows everything.

  196. Grouse Beater says:

    I’d like to make it clear that I think Murphy is a pitiful character.

    For someone of little charm and ability to think he can alter the political course of Labour UK and regain the trust and respect of the Scottish people is truly pathetic.

  197. K1 says:

    Aye, his arrogance shines through his opague veneer.

  198. Paula Rose says:

    So – Jimbo wants the Labour party to be more left-wing, which the SNP is, so my advice to him would be to let the SNP get as many seats as possible in order to counteract the English marginal constituency problem.

  199. Bob Mack says:

    E.V.E.L. debate today was a laugh a minute. Labour having kittens. No fair was the cry!. Welsh wanting to know they could still sponge of England. Then, a series of Tories stating that the English public deserved the same powers as Scotland. Correct me if I,m wrong but they have outnumbered Scottish M.P.s for decades by eight or nine to one, and have quite willingly pushed through legislation which affected Scotland without batting an eyelid. i.e. Poll Tax. Now suddenly the English feel disadvantaged. HA. HA. HA .HA! I think that the debate flushed out the hypocrisy that has been going on in this country for a long time. Party is more important than the need of the people. That was very clear today. Therefore the next time you here a politician warble on about the need to help society, just boot them up the ass. They are lying!!
    And as an aside, can anyone tell me what accusation laid at Mr Murphy,s door on this site or any other is not true? He put himself in the public domain, and as such must face scrutiny.

  200. wingman 2020 says:


    “If all 1.6 million Yes voters stopped watching the BBC.”

    Thats all it would take. And use the license fees for funding other media initiatives.
    Its a lot of money.

    My £145 is waiting for the first major initiative.

    I dont miss TV … the propaganda, endless advertising and endless repeats.

    Netflix and Amazon Prime are much better. Plus I can play anything on my PC, iPad or Iphone straight to my TV.

    Catch up anyone?

  201. Graeme Doig says:

    Nana Smith 3.26pm

    Recommended reading. Ta 🙂

    Still not sure I’d find many a psychiatrist argue with my assessment of him in an earlier comment.

  202. kininvie says:

    On the radio tonight we had McClymont vs John Redwood on EVEL.
    Gregg McClymont used the 1% argument and the HoC Library source, spotlit here a couple of threads back – and Redwood was a bit flummoxed. Guess who reads Wings, then?

    I’m sorry to see the Rev giving ammunition to Scotlab, but I suppose it is all good publicity for Wings

  203. Kathleen McKechnie says:

    Murphy is getting so much more attention than he deserves. The best thing we can do is totally ignore him. He is no political threat unless we take the bait that the media is feeding us ! I am going to concentrate on other more important issues and have decided today not ever to make any furthar comments in regard to JM. Scotland has bigger fish to fry !

  204. Papadox says:

    Is Jimba a honourable liar or a right honourable liar? And what is the difference?

  205. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    @ronald russell and others: Tempting as I’m sure it is for folk to email Margaret Curran and accuse her of lying, I’ve previously explained, with sources, why she isn’t on this occasion.

    Unfortunately, Rev Stu got it wrong on this one, understandably so but nevertheless you’re fuelling her ‘nasty cybernats’ line for continuing to attack her on this. God knows there are enough reasons to crucify those leading our party and running our branch office, but this isn’t one.

    (Also, incidentally, if you’re not her constituent and/or don’t provide a name and address, general protocol is that she won’t reply and her staff will most likely delete it before she even has chance to see it.)

  206. Natasha says:

    I have been having a lovely time emailing various Labour MPs to ask them how they voted on the Infrastructure Bill and carefully reminding them that before they reply they might like to consider the fact that their vote is a matter of public record.

    I’m not expecting any replies.

  207. Natasha says:

    A (reluctant) Labour Member 8pm
    Unfortunately, Rev Stu got it wrong on this one . . .

    Have you checked the link in the article? It doesn’t look to me as if he got it wrong.

  208. Bill McLean says:

    Papadox – MPs are addressed as “honourable”, members of the Privy Council are addressed as “the Right Honourable” – aye I know what you are thinking. Murphy is not a member of the Privy Council so is addressed, in Westminster as the “honourable gentleman” – neither of which is appropriate to the type of person he is! Privy Councillors can be drawn from many professions but mostly politicians as far as I know. Their role is to advise the head of state in our case the Queen! Not for much longer I hope!

  209. crazycat says:

    @ A (reluctant) Labour Member (and Natasha)

    Surely the point is that Labour MPs voted for an amendment, which if it had passed would have prevented the second reading of the Infrastructure Bill.

    But it didn’t pass. Labour MPs knew that. They knew that, once the amendment was defeated, the only way to prevent the second reading was to vote against it unamended.

    They abstained.
    They abstained in the knowledge that this would allow the second reading.

    Therefore, to say that they voted against a second reading might be the truth, but it certainly isn’t the whole truth.

    They are therefore deliberately misleading people who are unaware of the sequence of events.

    Is that not the case?

  210. heedtracker says: is a miserable slice of UKOK triumphalism/rubbing AlicSamin’s nose in it but it is extraordinary how this “Guardian History of how our Scotland was saved from er the Scots” part 1, completely leaves out the actual UKOK media vote NO freak show wot one it and especially the BBC!

    What is wrong with these meeja creeps from the Press and Journal to the Queen, that they have to pretend they don’t exist in teamGB politics all the time? Oh yeah, its only half time. Ref 2 coming to England very soon.

    No doubt Graun’s part 2, “The Rise and rise of the all new Jim Murphy!” will maybe give all the fraudsters in Pacific Quay a wee mention.

  211. liz says:

    @kininvie – that’s almost funny.

    Using the Rev’s report when it suits them.

    If Redwood was flummoxed is that because he didn’t think McClymont would be that smart

  212. Natasha says:

    @kininvie & liz
    It’s not hard to flummox John Redwood; have you seen that footage of him going ‘la, la, la’ to the Welsh National Anthem when he was Secretary of State for Wales?

  213. Charles Edward says:

    The battle is for better together is still being waged with their lies.

    As already mentioned above Dan Hodges (staunch Labour supporter with pedigree writing in the Torygraph? – ’cause he’s really going to reach ‘the people’ from that pulpit.. ) slamming Indy as some sentimental outpouring from which we should have all sobered up by now.
    Real concerns are still our problems here. Education cuts are wiping out support for kids who need it, we could have changed that situation and more.

    He is still peddling the subsidy nonsense, all us down here are paying for you so shut it. Lies.
    Every day there is the trickle exposure to Great British lies as truths, BBC is the worst.

    Figures on how much Scotland pays for this disservice need to be repeated.

  214. Onwards says:

    @Grouse Beater

    I think McWhirter has a valid point.

    The YES side has to win the intellectual argument, middle class votes, the votes of people who voted no.

    ‘Red Tory’ might be a valid accusation about Murphy, but talking about scum and ("Tractor" - Ed)s plays into their hands, and just allows the likes of Murphy to paint his opponents as an angry mob.

    Sure, he likes to wind people people up by putting on his calm, quiet ‘voice of reason’, even when spouting outright lies.
    But if delivered in a reasonable manner, enough people will accept it as the truth.

    We all need to remember that his style might be smooth, but his ultimate aim is to keep Scotland in line – providing a block vote of MP’s to prop up the UK Labour party.

    And his argument is basically weak.

    Powerless Patriotism isn’t a meaningful substitute for Devo-Max or independence.

  215. Andrew Walker says:

    All this talk about EVEL usually forgets one thing. If the vote affects barnett consequentials then it cannot be a purely english matter.

    I think once EVEL is pushed through it will affect a very small amount of legislation.

    However, defeats on the Red Tories due to EVEL would still be highly damaging to them hence the noise.

    I don’t think us Scots have much to fear from EVEL unless it takes an incorrect view of ‘english matters’. If it did, then of course that would be grounds for another referendum or perhaps even UDI.

  216. Andrew Walker says:

    Natasha, you are very unlikely to get a response from an MP unless you are from their constituency. I’m no fan of the tories, red or blue, but that’s just how it works.

  217. Proadge says:

    Stoker says:

    “This is why it’s important to complain every single time these ("Tractor" - Ed)s get to perpetuate their lies unchallenged on the BBC… If we don’t start acting now then we have no right to be moaning about it when they crank-it-up from January to May…”

    Sorry, disagree. There is absolutely no point in complaining to the state broadcaster about their political coverage. Nothing changes – they’re not biased as a result of some oversight but because their raison d’etre is to protect the British Establishment and the status quo, and to be – in the words of a former BBC Director – ‘the glue that holds Britain together.’ To write complaints is to participate in the charade that the BBC actually cares about impartiality. It doesn’t matter how many aggrieved yessers complain – this is not a numbers game. They are not answerable to us but to the Establishment. Yes they will crank it up between January – May but writing complaints will not have the slightest impact on that.

    The only thing to do is not pay the licence fee and not watch or listen to their propaganda – and, as a result, act ‘as if you live in the early days of a better nation.’

    Oh and help to crowd fund any academic research that systematically documents how politically biased against independence they are – which will help erode further their dwindling credibility.

  218. Grouse Beater says:

    Onards: But if delivered in a reasonable manner, enough people will accept it as the truth.

    Never give a sucker and even break.

  219. Robert Peffers says:

    @dan huil says: 16 December, 2014 at 10:33 am:

    “Either BBC “journalists” are ignorant or they are happy to go along with such lies.”

    Ye made a wee typo there, Dan. –

    “BBC “Journalists are ignorant AND they are happy to go along with such lies”. There – I’ve corrected it for you.

  220. Paula Rose says:

    Sorry cherubs but I’m just not getting this – how can there be EVEL if we are better together?

  221. Robert Peffers says:

    @manandboy says:16 December, 2014 at 10:42 am:

    ” … I just doubt he’ll hear very much if he’s living in London and merely commuting to Pacific Quay.”

    Ah! Yes!, Manandboy, but this is The Smurph we are considering here. The same Smurph famous for exorbitant expenses claims. What better way to boost such expenses than to live in London and more frequently commute to Scotland. Particularly if you book into an hotel in Scotland so as to return, “Home”, to London on the following day.

  222. Andrew Walker says:

    Just read that MSP’s are questioning Murphy’s 20,000 claim.

    It’s entirely possible that this has been driven by this website. Keep up the good work Revstu.

    Let’s make our feelings known in these comments. The site continues to be read by journalists post referendum.

  223. Macbeda says:

    Its just dawned on me .
    Jim Murphy spent nine years at University and didn’t get a degree.
    How is that possible?
    Normally 4 years to get a degree means that means he took someone’s possible place in the other five years – someone who who could have gotten a degree and done something useful for society.
    How can this be?
    How can you attend university for nine years and fail.
    Who paid the fees?

  224. CameronB Brodie says:

    Of course, the Palestinian vote sans the wrecking amendment deserves to be supported. Israel’s summer massacre showed the world a cynical political elite maintaining the occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza to pretend Israeli Jews still face an existential threat. If you can terrify a populace, otherwise rancid politics gets a free pass as long as it pretends to be most serious about “security”. A lasting peace settlement with the Palestinian Authority raises the prospect of “normal” politics and limited room for hysterical, populist manoeuvres. If Britain, as one of Israel’s most loyal arms suppliers and backers on the international stage, recognise the Palestinians it is a foreign policy defeat for Netanyahu and his odious cronies. Instead of talking about peace while shelling civilian population centres, they might have to start taking it a bit more seriously.

    @ Jim Murphy
    Any comment?

  225. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    What kind of supposedly serious political journalist asks a question like that of Murphy without having done any research and then just sits back and let’s him lie through his teeth?

    Good to see the unionist media are as big a joke as ever after they humiliated themselves in front of 45% of scots only a few months ago.

  226. CameronB Brodie says:

    The UK government has finally said it will review arms sales to Israel. Unfortunately we have been here before. In 2009 the then foreign secretary, David Miliband, told parliament that it was “almost certain” UK weapons had been used in Gaza. “We are looking at all extant licences to see whether any of these need to be reconsidered in light of recent events in Gaza,” he said.

    The arms sales continued and nothing changed. Since Miliband’s statement the UK has licensed £50m of weapons, including missile-targeting equipment, gun sightings and drone components.

    @ Jim Murphy
    Any comment?

  227. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    @ crazycat: that is an interpretation. However, it doesn’t change the fact that what Curran actually wrote is entirely, undeniably and verifiably true. Like I say, there’s plenty of reasons to justifiably attack them (see: Jim Murphy), there’s no need for anyone to undermine their own credibility by making baseless attacks.

  228. muttley79 says:


    Sorry, disagree. There is absolutely no point in complaining to the state broadcaster about their political coverage. Nothing changes – they’re not biased as a result of some oversight but because their raison d’etre is to protect the British Establishment and the status quo, and to be – in the words of a former BBC Director – ‘the glue that holds Britain together.’ To write complaints is to participate in the charade that the BBC actually cares about impartiality. It doesn’t matter how many aggrieved yessers complain – this is not a numbers game. They are not answerable to us but to the Establishment.

    ^This times by about a million. I have got to the stage where I really do not care what the BBC do, and that goes for their branch at Pacific Quay. There is talk that some of them wanted to go on strike on the night of the 18th September. Even if that is true it was far too late to mean anything. I view them with absolute contempt and disdain, and I am not a tough person at all.

  229. CameronB Brodie says:

    It is also the case that the situation in countries where NATO has been most active in killing people, including Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Pakistan, has deteriorated. It has deteriorated politically, economically, militarily and socially. The notion that NATO member states could bomb the world into good was only ever believed by crazed and fanatical people like Tony Blair and Jim Murphy of the Henry Jackson Society. It really should not have needed empirical investigation to prove it was wrong, but it has been tried, and has been proved wrong.

  230. EVEL . The Tories pushing it. Labour MPs getting very angry in WM about it. I hear talk of tactical voting to keep SNP out.

    I may be wrong but I don’t see it.

    Lib Dems are struggling as it is and will be wanting as much votes as they can get, every vote will be treasured by them. They won’t be too happy with Con Party after 5 years coalition where they definitely got the short end of the stick from the electorate. They can’t afford to be generous to Labour.

    Con party are doing their best to destroy the Labour party, they handed them the poisoned chalice before and during the referendum. Carrying it on now with EVEL, I can’t see them letting up.

    Labour Party will have their diehards who would vote for a roll of lino with a red rosette on it. But by all accounts and what the polls are saying is Labour is leaking support.

    The SNP must, as part of their strategy, make sure its not all positive there must be an amout of negativity about the labour party, push the fact that to get more powers we need MPs in WM with Scotlands best interests in place. Also make sure the amout these MPs collect in expenses, their voting records, what they have or have not voted on.

  231. Dr Jim says:

    A lie is a lie in any tone of voice, the people may not be as dim as they were during the referendum they’re catching on now, the only people who do’nt care if Murphy lies are the the same ones who always knew he was lying in the first place, and of course the so called journalists because it suits their purposes, remember journalists are only on their own side they do’nt care who’s right or wrong it’s all evil gossip fun for them, except of course the madmen like Cochrane and his ILK they actually believe they make a difference to the world. People might think we’re internet idiots but at least we are’nt in newspapers being public idiots…I am Alex Salmond…

  232. boris says:

    The Lone Tory in Scotland. The wee chappie keeps a low profile sitting on a small majority. Last time the SNP finished in fourth place but I expect the race will be closer this time. It will require a major effort from many footsoldiers but it can be done.

    He is prone to making outrageous pronouncements and is oft in trouble of his own making: His colleagues in Scotland were not best pleased when he rated them as a pretty thick bunch;

    Party insiders rounded on Shadow Scots Secretary David Mundell after a leaked memo showed he thought Conservative MSPs “lacked thinkers”. One senior Tory MSP even suggested Mundell should be thrown into the River Tay. He added: “The Tay is very deep this time of year.”

    His file makes for interesting reading.

  233. Ann says:

    With regards to Jim Murphys 9 years at Uni and who paid the fees.

    I don’t know how it worked then but my daughter has spent the last four and a bit years split between two colleges.

    For the 1st two years the fees were paid.

    The fees for the first two years of the course st the second college were covered, and had to be paid out of the student loan as she had aleady done a two year course.

    Year three the Degree year were once again paid.

    I can only assume that he funded the extra years at Uni himself, or had someone pay it for him.

  234. Auld Rock says:

    Have come to this late but I read in The National today that a realistic estimate of membership is 4,000 NOT 14,000.

    Auld Rock

  235. Democracy Reborn says:

    @A (reluctant) Labour Member

    I think you’re being rather disingenuous with your argument. But I’ll leave that aside, we could be here all night in further exchanges about it.

    Simple question : why are you “reluctant”?

  236. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT, but a game changer, IMO. I’m furious.

    Senior figures in Whitehall and Downing Street became so fearful that the Scottish independence referendum could lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom that the Queen was asked to make a rare public intervention in the final days of the campaign.

    Britain’s most senior civil servant and the Queen’s private secretary crafted a carefully worded intervention by the monarch, as No 10 experienced what one senior official described as “meltdown” in the closing stages of the campaign after polls showed growing support for a yes vote.

  237. scotspine says:

    Seems I got my legislation and who is subject to it mixed up after receiving my reply from “Scottish” labour on an FOI disclosure as to their numbers;


    Thank you for your interest in the Scottish Labour Party.

    The Freedom of Information Act gives you the right to access recorded information held by many public sector organisations. It does not include political parties. For further information please refer to the Information Commissioner’s Office at .

    Best wishes

    Scottish Labour Party
    Tel: 0141 572 6900
    Direct Tel: 0141 572 6910

    I replied

    You would think in the spirit of disclosure you would be only too happy to reveal your membership. One would think you had something to hide.

    Thanks anyway, your reluctance speaks volumes.

  238. Patrick Roden says:

    Ok Folks & Rev, just going to throw an idea out there to see what others think:

    How about (in my case) a ‘Wings over Dundee’

    This would be based on this site but would concentrate on local matters and would expose the shenanigans of Dundee MP/MSP’s.

    It would require a few people to run it as I doubt if any of us has the talent that Rev has, but I’m sure we could get a few writers to start doing some good research into the present Labour MP Jim Mc Govern and to start leaflet campaigns etc to get the information out there.

    We know how much Labour/Unionists/MSM hate Wings so just how much coffee would be spat out over tables when they discovered that they would be getting this same level of scrutiny at a local level as well!

    I would hope we would eventually have a ‘Wings’ over every single Westminster and Holyrood seat.

    That’s how to fight them!


  239. CameronB Brodie says:

    While touting their support for freedom, liberalism and democratisation as their core organisational remit, in practice they appear to be a neocon trojan horse for the very opposite: state-expansionism, state-militarisation, interventionism, rampant market deregulation and privatisation in the interests of Western investors, coupled with anti-Muslim hostility and white supremacism.

    @ Jim Murphy
    Nice friends you keep. Any comment?

  240. G. Campbell says:

    Interesting use of language in Jane Chilton’s EVEL report on Scotland 2014.

    “For the Tories it’s a win win all round. In Scotland, Labour holds forty one seats compared to the Tories’ one, so no upset there. If many of those once safe Labour seats are HIJACKED by the SNP in the general election, Labour’s Westminster powers would be seriously weakened, and if the SNP do STEAL Labour strongholds it plays further into the hands of the Tories.”

  241. jock mc X says:

    So its come to this,
    Jim murphy has been imposed on scottish labour.

    There are no cries from any scottish labour mp, msp,councillor.
    No one has walked out resigned or refused to work under this

    We all know what he is,what he represents,and so do they.

    My god,
    all our parents,grandparents who supported this party..even
    loved this party.
    My god……OH MY GOD….tears.

  242. macduff says:

    A bit off topic here its infuriating to see that the Guardian’s nic watt is all cut up over the EVEL and is blaming cameron ..wait for it …,,!!!!!!! For imoproving the SNP membership because of his announcement on the 19th I mean do these idiots think that we cannot work it out that the SNP has grown to humungous figures …because of its concern for Scotland not to mention the simple fact that the SNP actually care about the people of scotland and deliver on policy !!!!!watt goes on to say DArling begged cameron not to do this ..ha ha …and according to him the labour party is dying off as a eesult of camerons speech nothing to do with the fact they stabbed the scottish people in the back and handed our sovereignty back to them on a silver platter for nothing ..and scotland has been waiting for years for devolution years .,, but the EVEL will get pushed through pronto wait and see think we could be free right now its a travesty

  243. The Earthshaker says:

    Slightly off topic, but Labour is advertising for 10 paid Campaign Assistants in Scotland for the General Election

    And also for a trainee Campaign Organiser to be based in Edinburgh

  244. ronnie anderson says:

    Ann the thing is did Murphy do any coarse work,he was opposed to free tuition as were the Labour party as President of NUS he was keeping the Labour line.

    As with many Uni students did he have a part time job ?

    Was he being subsidised by the Labour party ?

    Did he receive monies from the NUS ?

    And at that time Colledge & Uni was better than being on the Buroo no signing on ect ect.part time job ,no tax to pay,theres many ways to look at Murphys years at Uni.

  245. Ian Brotherhood says:

    When we first saw this clip on WOS it had 40-something views. It’s really taken off in the past few days and now has 737.

    Perhaps – if he hasn’t already seen it – Iain Macwhirter would like to cast his professional eye over it and assess the extent to which Mr Murphy has been responsible for generating this kind of anger. Fact is, he didn’t have to go into the Grand Central via the main entrance – he could’ve used the station’s interior car-parks to avoid the baying mob, as 90% of his ‘comrades’ did.

  246. No no no...Yes says:

    Good to see Pete Wishart on the Labour Westminster MP’s case,including the new SLAB leader:

    In the cause of transparency here are your Scottish elected members who couldn’t be bothered to turn up for their own vote on equal pay for women.

    Scottish Labour leader – Jim Murphy
    Shadow Scottish Secretary – Margaret Curran
    Former Labour PM – Gordon Brown
    Leader of ‘Better Together’ – Alistair Darling
    Serial Labour pious-ist – Douglas Alexander
    Labour ‘socialist’ leadership candidate – Katy Clark
    Labour front bencher – Russell Brown
    Pamela Nash
    Anne McGuire
    Michael Connarty
    Tom Harris

    Some of them may have good reasons to have not been there, others may have had better things to do. You may want to ask them.

  247. Cactus says:

    @Ian Brotherhood, 11:49 pm ~

    What I like about the video, is nature knows best.. can you hear the dogs joining in and barking in time to everyone chanting hehe!

  248. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 16 December, 2014 at 7:22 pm:

    “E.V.E.L. debate today”: ” … Then, a series of Tories stating that the English public deserved the same powers as Scotland.”

    This is as daft a debate as has ever been held in Westminster. The true situation is that, there really has not been a, “United Kingdom Parliament”, since devolution became a fact.

    Simply look at the true facts and you will see the true situation : – There are 533 English constituencies in that so called, “United Kingdom”, parliament while the remainder is composed of 59 Scottish, 40 Welsh and 18 N. Irish seats.

    That is 533 English vs 59+40+18=117 others.
    A clear English majority of 533-117=416.

    Each elected member from an English seat now represents their constituents both as an, (elected as such), United, “Kingdom” representative and as an unelected member of the de facto Parliament of the “country” of England.

    Note well those emphasised definitions for they are key to the reality that Westminster wishes we do not notice. The reason being the quantum shift of pre & post devolution Westminster.

    Pre-devolution Westminster was actually a bipartite union of Kingdoms as the Kingdom of England had annexed the Principality of Wales by the 1284 Statute of Rhuddlan and annexed Ireland in 1542 by the Crown of Ireland Act. Then the, so called, 1603 Union of the Crowns was nothing of the sort as both kingdoms remained independent until the 1706/7 Treaty of Union formed the very first, “United Kingdom”. At which point the three countryKingdom of England had become a Constitutional Monarchy after the 1688, “Glorious Revolution”. Indeed it was that importation of King Billy and Queen Mary of Orange and subsequent Jacobite uprisings, (1688 – 1745), that made the 1706/7 Treaty of Union so necessary for that three country Kingdom of England.

    So, in effect, we now have the, (unelected as such), de facto Parliament of the Country of England as the master parliament devolving the powers of the Country of England to the subservient devolved country parliaments of Scotland, Wales & N.I.

    No longer are we a bipartite union of Kingdoms but are a quadratic union of countries. With the crucial difference that it is NOT a union but an unelected as such Master Country at Westminster assuming to rule over three subservient devolved, and thus subservient, country parliaments.

    Note that Westminster is now about to finish the job, (first begun by the Kingdom of England even before King Robert Bruce fought for Scottish independence), by preventing properly elected United Kingdom members from Scotland, Wales & N.I from interfering in the running of that de facto Parliament of England’s running.

    There really is only one sane solution to this matter and it is for the actual Parliament of England to be elected as such by the English electorate and for that parliament of England then to get to hell out of our United Kingdom Parliament forever.

  249. Bob Mack says:

    Great letters page on the National today, especially from a Mr McPhail. Made me quite sad to think about my own mum and dad who also voted Labour most of their lives looking for a better world, to end up with nothing before they both died.

  250. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Keep up the good work on Labour’s paid up political membership in Scotland (not to be confused with Trade Union affiliates, many of who got a vote though quite a few were members of the SNP Trade Union group, or social club members).

    Murphy has given us a gift with a really silly big lie.

    Over two years ago Gerry Hassan used Labour’s accounts of membership subscriptions to calculate their membership in Scotland at about 6,000. It has dropped since then.

  251. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Cactus –

    Some of the Green Party folk at that protest came to speak to us earlier this evening (SSP branch meeting in Irvine). Great session, great people, and we’ll be working closely with them in the months ahead.

    The ‘Yes Alliance’ may not be happening as far as the GE goes, but unofficially? It’s a happening thing, and will be until the job is done.

  252. boris says:

    Patrick Roden I posted a report on Jim McGovern just the other day. Should save you some time

  253. Rock says:

    “We suspect that Scottish Labour will try to get away with a lot more of those between now and May 2015. Rest assured that we’ll be here to keep the record straight.”

    Yes, you will certainly be there but you will be mostly heard by those who already know.

    Will The National and The Sunday Herald be there to keep the record straight?

    I suggest you send this article to The National and ask them to publish it.

  254. Cactus says:

    @Ian Brotherhood ~

    Great to hear the Scottish pro-indy parties are meeting up to share and speak about their views. An ‘unofficial YES Alliance’ (U_Y’All) can only be a good thing. From that, who knows what positive discussions/outcomes will emerge.

    It would be good if all the other pro-Scotland parties could do alike and meet with their similar’s, in their respective neighbourhoods. 🙂

  255. Barontorc says:

    It was noted that Murphy was elected on a 56% majority, which enumerated as 1,673 votes, so that means the total Labour vote was less than 3,000, in fact it was only 2,987 who bothered to cast a vote.

    We’re talking here less than Shetland standard, where Tavish Scott got over 6,000 in 2007 – double what Murphy could claim from Labour support in the whole of Scotland.

    The guy’s seen as a joke – but he’s a very dangerous joke!

    We all need to watch our backs with him around.

  256. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The 4,000 figure I quoted earlier came out of an SSP discussion which suggested that the actual Labour Scottish membership was around 3,800.
    Gerry Hassan’s thoughts on Labour membership can be found in his 2012 book “The Death of Scottish Labour” (if I remember the title correctly)

  257. K1 says:

    If they get their EVEL they will effectively be running the whole of the UK as an English (with only English constituent MP’s making the laws) parliament, and this in turn will reduce the other countrys to regions. With no say on any matters outwith their respective devolved assemblies/governments; the people of these countries will have no representation on any matters of ‘state’ and we will be effectively at the complete mercy of an English parliament claiming it represents a United Kingdom ‘country’.

    Am I correct Robert (Peffers), is this what it comes down to?

  258. boris says:

    This event is the most blatant breach of convention which demands that the Monarch, her household and Civil Servants remain totally independent in all political matters. I expect Scotland will be very very angry and a re-run of the referendum is very much on the agenda in 2015, assuming sufficient SNP MP’s are sent down to Westminster. I am very angry and feel conned out of a Yes vote. by Westminster and the Queen.

    Senior figures in Whitehall and Downing Street became so fearful that the Scottish independence referendum could lead to the breakup of the United Kingdom that the Queen was asked to make a rare public intervention in the final days of the campaign.

    Britain’s most senior civil servant and the Queen’s private secretary crafted a carefully worded intervention by the monarch, as No 10 experienced what one senior official described as “meltdown” in the closing stages of the campaign after polls showed growing support for a yes vote.

    The discussions between Sir Jeremy Heywood, the cabinet secretary, and Sir Christopher Geidt for the palace, led the Queen to issue an appeal to the people of Scotland four days before the referendum in September to “think very carefully” before casting their vote.

  259. Proadge says:


    “This event is the most blatant breach of convention which demands that the Monarch, her household and Civil Servants remain totally independent in all political matters.”

    The notion that there is, in reality, a convention that the royal family (and for that matter, civil servants) are in some way independent from politics is, of course, entirely laughable.

    The royal family are profoundly political. This goes beyond the expression of their own, invariably reactionary, views – whether its Charles’ long-standing, well-documented habit of exercising behind-the-scenes pressure on decision makers or Philip’s racist outbursts. The royal family are the cornerstone of the established, unchanging order, the embodiment of the extremely hierarchical, essential feudal British state.

    In the last panicked days before the referendum, when the British Establishment was working in overdrive – with the state broadcaster, as ever, in the vanguard – to terrify enough Scots to see off the unprecedented existential threat that Scottish independence represents… when they were utilising in their MSM carpet-bombing campaign key voices from across the British Establishment – military, business, finance, parlimentary – it is naive to think the royal family would not have a role to play, with a few well-chosen and carefully timed words.

    I am not angered by this article on the queen’s intervention. From the Yes side I think it is actually a good news story, making as it does a tiny dent in the queen’s halo – a halo unceasingly polished and jealously guarded by the MSM – which will hopefully help to raise the consciousness of a few more Scots as to just how rotten is the state we are up against.

  260. Proadge says:


    “This event is the most blatant breach of convention which demands that the Monarch, her household and Civil Servants remain totally independent in all political matters.”

    The notion that there is, in reality, a convention that the royal family (and for that matter, civil servants) are in some way independent from politics is, of course, entirely laughable.

    The royal family are profoundly political. This goes beyond the expression of their own, invariably reactionary, views – whether it’s Charles’ long-standing, well-documented habit of exercising behind-the-scenes pressure on decision makers or Philip’s racist outbursts. The royal family are the cornerstone of the established, unchanging order, the embodiment of the extremely hierarchical, essential feudal British state.

    In the last panicked days before the referendum, when the British Establishment was working in overdrive – with the state broadcaster, as ever, in the vanguard – to terrify enough Scots to see off the unprecedented existential threat that Scottish independence represents… when they were utilising in their MSM carpet-bombing campaign key voices from across the British Establishment – military, business, finance, parliamentary – it is naive to think the royal family would not have a role to play, with a few well-chosen and carefully timed words.

    I am not angered by this article on the queen’s intervention. From the Yes side I think it is actually a good news story, making as it does a tiny dent in the queen’s halo – a halo unceasingly polished and jealously guarded by the MSM – which will hopefully help to raise the consciousness of a few more Scots as to just how rotten is the state we are up against.

  261. Roll_On_2014 says:

    For Jimbo and his NeoCon mates I have the following message:

    NuLabour, the party that re-invented the wheel (the roulette wheel) and if they had stayed in power any longer they could have cracked perpetual motion (endless spin).

    NuLabour the party of the many and not the few – roughly translated as follows:

    Never has so much of value been trashed by so few to the disadvantage of so many.

  262. Ken500 says:

    BBC Scotland restructuring because of falling listeners. No listeners/viewers no programmes. Heads will roll. Listen or watch as little as possible to these programmes. Just to check out the enemy. No listeners/viewers no programmes. Vote with you feet. Boycott.

    The Labour/Unionist trolls have even deserted the Scotsman. Murphy universally detested.

  263. CameronB Brodie says:

    Make sure your holding on to something solid, as this one is spinning at a hell of a rate.

  264. CameronB Brodie says:

    So, ‘Mossad Murphy’ is being monster-ed by the lunatic lefty fringe of the naz…nast…nationalist cause. Shall we take a look at what Lurch really thinks?

    Looking at this crisis most sensible people know that Israel, like all democratic nations, has a right to self-defence and should never have to live with persistent, daily rocket attacks aimed at random and mass killings of civilians. As Barack Obama has said, the path to the end of this conflict begins when the rockets from Gaza cease. Those who are most critical of Israel should ask how our country or any democracy would respond to regular rocket fire. Yes, of course there should be a meaningful agreement which would involve an end to Israel’s illegal building of settlements and based upon two democratic States living as neighbours. That’s what most people believe and want. But until that happens surely Israel has to defend itself against Hamas. I know that some people will say that they are elected by the people of Gaza but that doesn’t stop Hamas being a vile organisation. They are prescribed by the European Union amongst others as a terrorist organisation.

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Would the Palastinians need to resort to violence, if they were not faced by an existential threat? By the way, the egg came first, apparently, as without shells to protect the embryo from drying out, reptiles would have remained amphibians. They would not have been able to evolve.

    It is vital too that Israel’s actions are focussed towards military targets. Comments such as those by Israel’s Interior Minister who is reported to have vowed to “send Gaza back to the Middle Ages” are totally unacceptable and crass, and are incompatible with our goal to see two nations living side-by-side in peace. Israel’s goal must be to prevent Hamas from committing atrocities, but avoiding at all times civilian casualties and ensuring humanitarian aid and support can reach victims who have been tragically wounded by recent attacks.

    Still not seeing the wood for the trees, are you Lurch?

    The only hope for peace and security for the citizens of the region will be through re-starting the stalled negotiations, with both sides committed to lasting, peaceful resolution. How a diplomatic process ends is relatively clear. The broad shape of a future agreement is well known. What is less clear is how that process starts in a meaningful way.

    Would boycotting Israel not help concentrate minds? Why resist pressuring the real aggressors?

    The right to do so is an important part of our politics and democracy. The one thing that I find surprising is that there is not the same level of demonstration against the Syrian regime that has been butchering so many of its own people all these months. The violence in Syria has caused the death of 30,000 with 100 being killed every day. Why is there such little focus on that as well? I don’t know why that is.

    Not heard of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, or understand who’s interests they serve?

    So how does Lurch come to have such a shallow appreciation of the situation in Israel and the Middle East in general?

    This hugely complicated and controversial issue is explained in great detail on the BBC website, which also includes useful links to relevant organisations. To access the BBC website, click here, and to access the CNN website, click here.


  265. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    @ Democracy reborn. It’s not disingenuous at all. Curran was telling the truth – to say otherwise is wrong and leaves Rev Stu in a position where he could be used for libel.

    As for reluctant, I explained on another thread, but basically I am a member (not in Scotland) to support those close to me by going to meetings and supporting them.

  266. A. Hamilton says:

    Roll_On_2014 so true well said, we live to change all this and we will.

    “Never has so much of value been trashed by so few to the disadvantage of so many.”

  267. Scotspine says:

    Anyone who is a Labour supporter in reference to Scotland should hang their heaad in shame.

  268. Mealer says:

    Yup.But despite all that,9 out of 20 voted YES.We’re well on our way.

  269. Luigi says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:
    17 December, 2014 at 1:22 am

    The 4,000 figure I quoted earlier came out of an SSP discussion which suggested that the actual Labour Scottish membership was around 3,800.

    That was yesterday – now down to 3,550.

    Tick, tick…

  270. Luigi says:

    It would be timely and appropriate for the National to do an article on Scottish Labour Party membership numbers. “What exactly is it?”

    Show the world what a bunch of losers they are.
    (nobody votes for losers).

  271. Ken500 says:

    They have to pay PR Companies to hire ‘supporters’, on expenses i.e. public money. An insult to democracy.

  272. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    @ Scotspine: I’m not exactly proud of my membership, but there are other things that matter. Not living in Scotland, supporting the SNP isn’t really an option.

    However, there was a Labour Yes campaign, albeit not supported by the party, and there are a lot of Labour supporters and members in England as well who were/are in favour of Scottish Independence. ‘Hang your head in shame’ is not in keeping with the positive tone of the ‘Yes’ side of the debate and no way to build the campaign for 50%+ at the next referendum.

  273. Macart says:


    Pretty Much.

    Robert Peffers knows his constitutional and historical onions. 🙂

  274. A (reluctant) Labour Party Member says:

    @ Luigi, Dave McEwan Hill: There were 13,099 ballot papers issued to individual members of Scottish CLPs in the 2010 leadership election (i.e. that is just the CLP section and excludes ballot papers issued to Union members). See

    Labour Party membership nationally has remained pretty steady since 2010, dropping from a peak of about 193,000 to about 189,000 at the end of 2013. Therefore, it’s probably not unreasonable to suggest that membership in Scotland is still somewhere between 10,000 and 13,000.

    More pertinent is that despite claiming to be an entity which makes its own decisions, Scottish Labour doesn’t collect its own subs but rather exists off what is given back to it by the national party. Nationally, the Labour Party gets a membership income of almost £30 per member, but at the claimed 14,000 members only £8.26 of that is given back to the branch office for them to buy biscuits for their meetings. Indicative perhaps of the attitude of my party’s leadership to Scotland as a whole?.

  275. Ken500 says:

    There should be more flexibility in Education. Pupils have to take five Highers in fifth year. Then one+ in six year. Pupils should GE ablebto take 3 or four Highers in fifth year and two or three in sixth year. Fifth and sixth year should have composite classes. It would be easier, cheaper and less stressful for the pupils, It would save college places as well.

    Student teacher training course should include modules on autism and special needs topics. Not one day. Teachers are not getting proper training on disadvantaged groups.

    The Police should stop arresting people and putting people who have committed no ‘crime’ in cells. A waste of time and Public money/tax payers money, cloggs up the courts and costs to the Criminal Justice system. Do they do It to put up crime statistic rates?

  276. Ken500 says:

    Pupils show be able to take 3 or 4 Highers in fifth year and two or three Highers in sixth year. It woukd be less stressful for the pupils and less ou iOS would drop out. TThere should be more flexibility and composite classes in fifth and sixth year. That would free up College places and provide more flexibility for fast track Part- time courses etc.

  277. Scotspine says:

    Don’t chastise me. I voted Yes.I don’t vote Labour because aside from their clamour for power and being purveyors of outright lies, they haven’t changed. They are now fronted by a Westminster right winger and clearly have not learned their lesson. They need to be crushed as a political force. Only then will Scotland stand a chance

  278. Nana Smith says:

    Strong stench of desperation up our way coming from the lib dems. So far this week I have received three leaflets extolling the ‘virtues’ of J Thurso and their party!

    My son has received two.

    Perhaps I should be kind as its the festive season and let them know they are wasting their funds, or maybe I’ll just send them back in an unstamped envelope.

  279. Stoker says:

    Jim Murphy – Pathological liar, Traitor, Bully and Slabber leader.

  280. Lollysmum says:

    @ Scotspine

    Read the last few entries on ‘Inching towards the truth’ where a (reluctant) Labour member had posted a couple of days ago. I asked him similar questions & can see it from his or her perspective.

    You may have made a generalisation above about Labour hanging their head in shame but without the context you are in danger of being shot down in flames. He or she is in England & like me has no real alternative or rather we have no alternative representation capable of making real change.

    I’ve said on this site several times that Scotland doesn’t realise just how fortunate they are to have their left leaning parties.

    This person has been completely open that he or she is a labour member.

    I can’t see how you will be able able to influence labour people to change sides if you come out with bald statements as you did above. That would kill any possible dialogue stone dead.

    My understanding is that WoS welcomes people of all political persausions & none & that I see as it’s strength. It also has a reputation for being factual rather than for whipping up emotional argument. That’s why I visited & stayed because it is a ‘broad church’. If that’s not the case then I’ll be out of here.

  281. Scotspine says:

    I said “in reference to Scotland”. Those that remain loyal to Labour IN Scotland after the lies and spin and smoke and mirrors deployed should hang their head in shame. If Scottish Labour voters have not crossed the floor by now, I doubt much will influence them. Murphy is just another phase of deception that Labour supporters will cling to in order to kid themeselves all is well.

    If you are complaining on here of not having a left leaning party in England, do something about it there. People in Scotland have precious little influence over England. We have enough to contend here with the MSM and Establishment straightjacket.

  282. Stoker says:

    There was 10 wee ("Tractor" - Ed)s sitting on a wall and if 10 wee ("Tractor" - Ed)s should accidentally fall there’d be no wee ("Tractor" - Ed)s sitting on the wall.

    Tic Toc, Slabber, Tic Toc

  283. Luigi says:

    Labour NO voters should be welcomed on this site.

    How are we going to progress beyond 45%?

    By talking among ourselves?

  284. A (reluctant) Labour Member says:

    @ nana smith: play the long game. Tell them that you’re *thinking of* supporting them. That way, they’ll spend more of their precious resources trying to persuade you, leaving less to convince someone who could actually be convinced. Also if everyone does it, it could lead to them being complacent about their vote and focusing their efforts elsewhere.

    (Before anyone says anything about ‘nasty hypocritical Labour’, all the parties do it, including I would assume the SNP. I’ve been through Contact Creator in the past and found elected Tories and Lib Dems recorded as Labour supporters, it’s part of the game.)

  285. kininvie says:


    There’s also an iniative – started by Edinburgh & Lothians Yes groups to take the Yes campaign forwards. I believe there is a plan for Denis Canavan to chair a meeting on 29th January. No further details yet, but keep the date free.

  286. No no no...Yes says:

    Lollysmum 9:55am

    Well said!

    Whether we Wings readers like it or not, each person in this country is entitled to have their own opinion on any matter. That is the benefit of living in a democratic society (Just how democratic given the revelations in the Guardian about the referendum is another debate).

    Wings is a place for like minded people to sometimes vent off against the machinery of the state and that is healthy. I disagree with some of the comments posted here but I respect their views and put forward my own perspective.

    Non yet indy minded readers may be open to persuasion and this can be achieved through critical analysis and reasoned argument for our cause. Anything less might be self satisfying at the time, but it will result in a vote lost and we simply cannot afford to do that.

  287. Graeme Doig says:


    The 10 wee ("Tractor" - Ed)s all look pretty pleased wi themselves.. Apart from Alexander who looks like he knows what’s coming 🙂

  288. Martin Wood says:

    @ A (reluctant) Labour Member says (and others)

    We need to dial back on the rhetoric:

    Yes there are corrupt politicians.
    Yes there are voters who will vote for the union regardless,

    but engaging anyone with a different view with reasonable argument is the only way we can make progress and stop Murphy and his spinners from using any abusive terms against us.

    The love affair with labour seems like all abusive relationships – its a difficult and hard habit to break and many return to an abusive relationship over and over hoping for better

  289. Helena Brown says:

    Scotspine, with regard to Labour members crossing the floor. I tend to feel that Labour, even more than the others has a gang mentality and like all gangs there are initiations to go through, therefore they all have the dirty on all of them and they dare not, even if they could find the courage. I bet Johann Lamont will not say a word even with the knife just out of her back because I bet even if they have nothing on her, I bet they have on the Hubby.

  290. Ken500 says:

    It inadvisably for anyone who supports Independence to come on any website to defend Margaret Curran. It could be classed as provocation.

    Many suggest it would be advisable to ignore Murphy when he is being shoved in folks face’s all the time and attempting to subvert any hard won democracy in Scotland. People would prefer to ignore Murphy and the rest but the Labour Party prefer to enable their provocation.

  291. Helena Brown says:

    Nana @ 9.49. Your son is not alone, we received two leaflets yesterday, end of term reports I believe, one from Willie Rennie and one from Cara Hilton. We also received a note which was unsigned regarding the 4.5 day week proposed for the Schools in Fife. AS I come from Edinburgh originally where this is the norm, perhaps the good people of Fife could ask what do other Labour controlled councils do. and vote accordingly. I really do not care as I have no kids.

  292. Just heard from someone (a friend) he has been told that the Labour supporters have been told to quieten it down, not to engage in slagging the SNP off or fighting on social media. Jim Murphy likes being insulted and such as it gives him reason to critisise the SNP and ”Nationalists”

    Has anyone heard of this or do you notice this by less antagonism from Labour supporters?

  293. Sinky says:

    Murphy can’t help himself.

    After claiming 20,000 Labour members yesterday he told the press that he had set up an office at Holyrood when it later emerged that he merely had a pass and allowed to use a desk within a friendly MSP’s cubby hole (at taxpayers expense).

  294. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Sinky where did you get that information Murphy has a desk within a MSPs office.

  295. Nana Smith says:

    @A (reluctant) Labour Member

    I don’t recall seeing your user name on Wings before now so perhaps you could tell me why you are a reluctant labour member. Sorry if you have already told us.

    Are you in England and if so is there not a Green party or Independent standing in your constituency which you might consider voting for?

    As to playing the long game with the lib dems, I have had ‘words’ with my mp [lib dem] regarding lies told to Scottish voters during the indyref so he is well aware what my feelings are towards them.

  296. Nana Smith says:

    ‘Scotland’s radicals need to take a long view in these heady times, and chart a different path and culture of political change, which contributes to making Scotland’s second ‘long revolution’.’

    Sorry folks I’ve not read it all as I’ve no time right now.

  297. Stoker says:

    @ Graeme Doig.
    Graeme, it was also interesting to note that he, Alexander, stayed hidden behind Anus Sarewart at the recent Slabber management announcement. I got the impression he was trying to stay out of the spotlight as much as possible, keeping a low profile.

    Vote for your strongest Pro-Indy candidate in May 2015


  298. Nana Smith says:

    @Helena Brown

    The printers must be on overtime getting all these leaflets out!

  299. cearc says:

    Nana Snith,

    … and the survey, which had a freepost address.

    (freepost RYEY-KYBL-JBHT, Highland Liberal Democrats, 45 Huntley ST, IV3 5BR).

    In the 2). If you could change one thing locally… box. I stated that, ‘Not receiving junk mail from MPs in a neighbouring constituency. I suggest you refer to the electoral role for addresses rather than just using post codes.’

  300. Papadox says:

    Just wondering when Jima was at uni did he perchance get a grant or financial support from any political or union body to help him with his “studies”, or did he finance the whole charade himself.

    How does he intend financing his vertion of the Scottish “independant” Labour Party?

    What input will the real ENGLISH Labour Party have on the kiddy on SILP and will it be a member of the NEC.

    Will foreign donations be accepted? Will larger donations be published and the donater recognised?

    That’s enough just now look forward to getting some answers. I awaited your reply Jimba, regards

  301. Jack Murphy says:

    OT.Am I the only person encountering major problems accessing The National digital on-line site?
    Password refused,new password sent to me—ad infinitum,and refused every time as INCORRECT PASSWORD!!
    Some days the system works OK,others———well today is one of them!
    My subscription has not expired.

  302. RMAC says:

    I want Scotland to be an independent country, but not at any price. What is the point of becoming everything that those who oppose us already are. We will end up being tarred with the same brush and seen by those we need to persuade as no better than those we want to see the back of.
    I have seen a number of posts that say we were too nice, perhaps that is true but as soon as you start crossing the line it will be used against you (Ref; the burning of the Smith commission papers and how it was magnified out of all proportion as if it were a huge crime). It seems to me that doing things properly hasn’t served us that badly so far, do we really need to adopt the tactics of the unionists to proceed… after all they only won a battle (did they really) but look likely to lose the war?

  303. Martin Wood says:


    do you know there is a new website called Vote England

    Nice to see what our countrymen in the south think

  304. Lollysmum says:

    James Caithness & Sinky

    Well done to both of you. Both items are important & point out JM’s lies without resorting to insults.

    This is exactly what’s needed-report the facts on WoS as you hear them & anyone interested in taking them on will investigate further.

  305. Fred says:

    Nicola was embarassingly announced to Her Maj as First Minister of the Scottish Executive. This unintended slight was passed off as an error. When do these sticklers for protocol ever get it wrong? and had the previous First Minister ever been so announced after the name change.
    A minor matter indeed but considering that this woman has about as much right to sit on the British throne as Kylie Minogue the whole rigamarole is a Whitehall Farce.

  306. No no no...Yes says:

    James Caithness 11:06am

    “Labour supporters have been told to quieten it down..”

    Does that suggest that Jim has called off the rabid dogs of war against that loathsome Nationalists? If so, the problem is that their hatred of the SNP will take a generation to recover from. I hope they do calm down and focus on the arguments because the SNP are miles apart from the Labour Party in every sense. None of their arguments, far less figures, stack up and even the MSM and BBC UKay(e) with her forthcoming daily 3 hour Britfest won’t get Labour out of the deep hole they have dug themselves into.

    The Labour Party are on a life support system and we have the power to switch it off.

  307. Cadogan Enright says:

    I really appreciate the way in which this blog allows us to trade ideas and shares exposure of the unionist establishment and press.

    However I feel we are engaged in too much anger and loathing over the Scottish Branch of Labour and the way in which their lies and misrepresentations are supported and promoted by the BBC and press.

    I accept the arguments above that the 55% is made of 25% irrevocably British in outlook, and 30% who are afraid, misled or not yet ready for the plunge.

    I feel that Wingers need to adopt a culture of clinical analysis of how we can use our exposures of the unionist forces to this 30%. IE via the MSM, assorted official complaints procedures, street activism, feeding info to the press offices of YES parties, the new media and everything up to and including registering as a ‘third party’ to have funds legitimately campaigning at elections or to expose the press via giant posters – like RT did recently in London.

    Many comments on this site could be used out of context also – I wonder could we reign in the more extreme expressions and use more cutting and elegant ways of saying the same thing?

  308. K1 says:

    @Macart, thanks, yes I know Robert knows his stuff, I just wanted it out there in a condensed version so that it is clear exactly what EVEL means in succint terms and to acknowledge Robert’s beautifully constructed, as ever, understanding from the historical perspective. I don’t think it has sunk in exactly how this effects us here. The National has a spread about it today but again not getting into the ‘meaning’ of it only focused on the party in fighting as usual.

    I find this kind of reporting completely unsatisfactory. If it can be put across in ordinary terms what this potentially results in, we may find that people grasp the existential threat to Scotland as a ‘country’. It’s a powerful weapon if it can be shaped and aimed in such a way as to underpin the necessity of why SNP is our ONLY option in May.

  309. Simon Pia SPAD and labour man made a pretty barbed comment about JoHann Lamont in the National this morning.

  310. @Martin Wood
    Absolutely nothing wrong with our friends in England wanting what we want.
    A Free Scotland and a Free England both Nations doing whats best for their own citizens.
    As long as their path to English Independence is a Democratic one I will wish them` all the best`.

  311. Martin Wood says:

    @Cadogan Enright

    What inevitably happens in discussions between opponents is the one with the “weakest” argument breaks first and begins the veiled insults.
    Keeping the pressure on by ignoring the insults and responding only to the points in the argument, I’ve found, is the best way forward.
    It’s unlikely the opponent will back down and agree and will become increasingly hostile and more direct in insult.
    Keeping focused on the argument will mean that any outside reader of the argument will see the “Nationalist” position as a clear, rational and non-hostile response – a better chance of turning round the ones who can be swayed by the facts

  312. Tamson says:

    James Caithness:
    “Just heard from someone (a friend) he has been told that the Labour supporters have been told to quieten it down, not to engage in slagging the SNP off or fighting on social media. Jim Murphy likes being insulted and such as it gives him reason to critisise the SNP and ”Nationalists”.

    This, along with the opendemocracy article does fuel a theory I had about London Labour’s enthusiasm to get Murphy into the job.

    Their perspective on the SNP and its rise has been dominated by their view of one man: Alex Salmond. He’s Labour’s Emmanuel Goldstein, to be demonised at regular Two-Minute Hates and in every press release. So they have come to the conclusion that the SNP’s rise must be due in some way to Salmond’s “divisive” character: he’s controversial, they reason, so voters get interested and end up voting for him. Oscar Wilde’s famous remark about the only thing worse than being talked about probably feeds into their logic, too. Belatedly, they came to realise their constant demonising of him turned the electorate towards him.

    Remember, Labour is a party utterly obsessed with individuals: weird for supposed socialists, but there you are. They demonised Thatcher and Salmond: they idolise Hardie, McLean and Maxton as some sort of political Holy Trinity. They worship the memories of Atlee and Bevan; some even go on pilgrimages to John Smith’s grave. They erected a statue of Dewar, almost before he was cold in his grave.

    So they turn to Murphy. By having a controversial figure in charge, they reason, they get people interested. If they make him the total focus of Scottish Labour (expect most other Scot Lab politicians to be sidelined in the coming months), they’ll get the hate flowing.

    In order for this to work, though, they would need to have the Scottish media on board, and I don’t think that will happen. I seem to remember a Lib Dem MP complaining at their Scottish conference once, that the press hacks weren’t interested in his words: they just wanted a soundbite attacking the SNP that their editor might be interested in. If the Scotsman et al aren’t on board with the “lay off the SNP” line, it’s going nowhere, and mere internet hate of Murphy won’t get traction.

  313. Labour membership for standard members is £3.60 per month (£3.60 x 12 = £43.20) – the £5 rate applies to new members for their first year only.

    This is a ridiculous argument to be having anyway – why not debate the policies of the SNP and Labour instead?

  314. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Tamson says:

    If we could marry you post to mine above yours, adding the point that a controversial character attracts votes – and suggest that we all laugh at or ignore spud – we could have a winning formula

  315. Fred says:

    Tamson, Maclean,Hardie & Maxton must be revolving in their graves at the antics the present Labour faithful. John Smith was beatified just for expiring basically, no great legacy there unlike, perhaps, that Socialist millionaire Dewar who landed us with an ego-trip Parliament which cost squillions & leaks like a seive. Some hagiography.
    Amen & Amen.

  316. Lollysmum says:

    Leaks like a seive-water or information? Both?

  317. Bill McLean says:

    Cadogan Enright – agree with you totally about Slabber and “cutting and elegant” is the best way to show them up for the fools they are (woops)! Let me put it this way, and I quote and old friend who was being at work given a talking to at work – his response was – “your statement is a matter of supreme indifference to me!” – just what I feel about Labour rubbish!

  318. Grouse Beater says:

    Obama telling Cubans the USA really, really loves them, and look forward to Cubans getting real democracy – that from a country that shoots dead anybody it dislikes and indulges in mass global terrorism and torture.

    ‘America extends the hand of friendship.’

    A good start. Shame it’s almost 50 years late.

  319. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Labour membership for standard members is £3.60 per month (£3.60 x 12 = £43.20) – the £5 rate applies to new members for their first year only.”

    Actually, no it isn’t. On the join page it says “£5 a year”.

    I had a very close look at the small print, and there’s nothing there that lets them vary your direct debit amount. It’s £5 a year, every year.

  320. The Rough Bounds says:

    Relax everyone. I’m pretty sure his parish priest will absolve him so no point in getting upset.

  321. Andrew Walker says:

    Note to cameron b brodie.

    This is Wings over Scotland, not Wings over Palestine. There are better forums to make your case.

  322. Fred says:

    As the new Scottish Labour leader is an outspoken friend of Israel, not unconnected to his constituency’s large Jewish population? Cameron Brodie’s contribution is very pertinent to this or any other forum to which he choses to put his case.
    Palestine could yet be the powder keg which leads to world-wide conflagration. There can be no lasting peace in the world without an end to the nuclear-armed Israeli tyranny.

  323. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andrew Walker
    Is there a problem with my posts? Do you not appreciate the relevance?

  324. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andrew Walker
    The way I see things Andrew, questioning British Labour and their Scottish branch manager’s position re. Israel, opens multiple avenues of attack. For example;

    1. British Labour supports Israeli statehood, which is founded on imperialist intervention. This is a Fabian position and the polar opposite of a socialist view. Do I have to point out their position re. Scottish statehood?

    2. Israeli nationalism is characterised by an aggressive racism and apartheid, as opposed to the inclusiveness of the Yes movement.

    2. Jim Murphy’s position appears c o n f l i c t e d, as he pays lip-service to a two state solution, yet opposes applying pressure on Israel through boycotts.

    3. In opposing Israel’s boycott, Jim Murphy is assisting the continued supply of British-made arms to Israel. These are employed in Israel’s disproportionate use of force against the Palestinians. Hardly a socialist position. Not only is this morally bankrupt, it raises further questions regarding JM’s connections to the arms industry, as well as the hawkish neo-con Henry Jackson Society.

    4. What influence does the Labour Friends of Israel lobby group have over British Labour’s policy making?

    5. British Labour are far from united on Middle Eastern policy. This is also the case for their Scottish branch office.

    This list is far from exclusive, so please feel free to add your own.

  325. CameronB Brodie says:

    I can count, honest. 🙂

  326. CameronB Brodie says:

    Britain does not classify “Palestine” as a state, but says it could do so at any time if it believed it would help peace efforts between the Palestinians and Israel. Government ministers were told to abstain and the non-binding vote will not force Britain to recognise a Palestinian state.

    Nearly 50 MPs were in the chamber to hear pro-Palestinian Labor Backbencher Grahame Morris open the four hour debate which he said was a chance for the UK to atone for its historic mistakes – a clear reference to the Balfour Declaration.

    Only if the Labor Party were to be successful in next May’s general election, would they be in a position to implement the Commons vote and judging by the latest opinion polls it would be anybody’s guess in the current political climate as to who might take over in 10, Downing Street. But at present it appears more likely that David Cameron with his more balanced approach to the Arab-Israel conflict will be there and he will – in all probability just ignore last night’s vote as he has done on the three other occasions backbench votes have resulted in defeats for his government’s policies.

    What about Scottish statehood? Do we not have a more substantial claim than Israel?

  327. CameronB Brodie says:

    What was the historic mistake Grahame Morris referred to? Could it be that Britain supported Zionism (an anti-Semitic ideology) for largely unethical reasons, including;

    1. Undermining Germany, during WW1, by agitating German Jews.

    2. Undermining their ally Russia during a time of revolutionary unrest, by agitating Russian Jews. Another strand of the Great Game(?).

    3. To secure American involvement in the war, by agitating American Jews.

    4. To establish a strategic block against foreign imperial influence in the region, most specifically from their ally France.

    5. British influence in the Palestine was strategically important to securing oil exports from Iraq, along the Mosul-Haifa oil pipeline from 1935–1948, and unofficially up until 1954.

    “it would help secure post-war British control of Palestine, which was strategically important as a buffer to Egypt and the Suez Canal.” – David Lloyd George

    “The Zionist leaders gave us a definite promise that, if the Allies committed themselves to giving facilities for the establishment of a national home for the Jews in Palestine, they would do their best to rally Jewish sentiment and support throughout the world to the Allied cause. They kept their word.” – David Lloyd George

    “The idea was, and this was the interpretation put upon it at the time, that a Jewish State was not to be set up immediately by the Peace Treaty without reference to the wishes of the majority of the inhabitants. On the other hand, it was contemplated that when the time arrived for according representative institutions to Palestine, if the Jews had meanwhile responded to the opportunity afforded them by the idea of a national home and had become a definite majority of the inhabitants, then Palestine would thus become a Jewish Commonwealth”. – David Lloyd George

    “”The phrase ‘the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people’ was intended and understood by all concerned to mean at the time of the Balfour Declaration that Palestine would ultimately become a ‘Jewish Commonwealth’ or a ‘Jewish State’, if only Jews came and settled there in sufficient numbers.” – Leopold Amery

    IMO, it is also significant that the Balfour Declaration of 1917, was drafted by Alfred Milner (of Kindergarten fame and self proclaimed Fabian socialist), who’s Credo was;

    “I am a Nationalist and not a cosmopolitan …. I am a British (indeed primarily an English) Nationalist. If I am also an Imperialist, it is because the destiny of the English race, owing to its insular position and long supremacy at sea, has been to strike roots in different parts of the world. I am an Imperialist and not a Little Englander because I am a British Race Patriot … The British State must follow the race, must comprehand it, wherever it settles in appreciable numbers as an independent community. If the swarms constantly being thrown off by the parent hive are lost to the State, the State is irreparably weakened. We cannot afford to part with so much of our best blood. We have already parted with much of it, to form the millions of another separate but fortunately friendly State. We cannot suffer a repetition of the process.”*Version*=1&*entries*=0#customerReviews,_1st_Viscount_Milner

  328. CameronB Brodie says:

    British Labour conditionally support Palestinian statehood as a consequence of a bilateral peace settlement. This appears unlikely in the near future, given continued Israeli hostility, apartheid and the expansion of illegal settlements. British Labour also appear unlikely to be in a position of government in the near future.

    Does Jim Murphy’s support for the non-binding recognition of Palestinian statehood, indicate sincere commitment or is it simply another ‘bait and switch’? He doesn’t appear to have voted.

    Was the vote a pointless exercise?

    “I’ve been pretty clear about the government’s position and it won’t be changing,” said a spokesperson for Cameron.

    Current government policy is that the UK “reserves the right to recognise a Palestinian state bilaterally at the moment of our choosing and when it can best help bring about peace”.

    What about Scotland’s claim to statehood?

    @ Jim Murphy
    Any comment?

  329. CameronB Brodie says:

    Correction: It would have helped if I had searched the correct month. I’m still getting to grips with Hansard, as well. 🙂

    I’m still not sure if JM was present.

  330. CameronB Brodie says:

    Remember, the phrase “conspiracy theory” is a “thought terminating cliche”. A linguistic device used to suppress descent and support totalitarian authority.

  331. CameronB Brodie says:

    Clarification: Russia was Britain’s ally during WW1.

  332. CameronB Brodie says:

    Iain Donnelly
    I think you might have stirred up a pile Iain. If it’s at all possible to gubb a turd, lets do it. If only for the sake of maintaining public health. 🙂

    @ Libby Brooks
    There is no such party as “Scottish Labour”. There is, however, a Scottish branch office of British Labour.

    If you are intent on drawing a journalist’s salary, might I suggest you do a bit of research before promoting your lack of knowledge to the general public. Otherwise, one might confuse you for a propagandist.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top