Wings Over Scotland

It wasn’t actually the English footie side as such that we disliked, it was the damned English commentariat. They always revealed in a very open and unselfconscious way the very vices of arrogance and self-entitlement that we (like others) always took their country to possess, grossly unrepresentative of ordinary English folk as they may well have been.

Why the f should we feel obliged to support our neighbours anyway? They also take offence if we don’t. Are the non qualified Dutch going to support the Germans next year? their next door neighbours? Aye sure they are.

hi Bobajock
What is DoB?

It not them winning that is the problem, it’s the next 50 years of reruns that wears you down. They might even end up with a quiz show linked to a commentary quote. It’s bad enough when they win at cricket, a sport that only has about six countries that actually play it to a professional level.

I won’t actually be here in 50 years so even if they do win there is a bright side to it for me.

I remember being late for work watching and supporting england win the final of the rugby World Cup a decade and a half ago. I decided to concerntrate on the fact that they were a cracking bunch of players even though their coach was a prize twat. Dare I say it, far more annoying than the English media were the hugely biased Aussie media who knew deep down that England were a far better side.
Seldom watch football anyway.

You could probably count on one finger the number of times John Mottson has commentated on an England game and NOT mentioned1966. IRN BRU even had advert on that basis. (Other soft drinks are available).

If your football team goes out of a tournament why should you care about what your rivals do in that tournament, if they win it they win it, if thay get beaten who cares
The italians did not make the world cup in russia, you would think the manager and the players had committed treason, what a silly football crowd they have
I remember when argentina won the world cup, lots of their fans ran to the cemetery gates and shouted at the headstones, you don’t know what you missed, i think their mothers and fathers who where still alive would not be caring about a stupid football match and comparing it with their dead relatives lying dead in a cemetery, so many football fans forget what life is really about

Socrates MacSporran says:
28 December, 2017 at 1:10 pm

thanks Socrates. I guess I have always been naive in this regard. I was well into my middle age before I understood why even quite small towns in Scotland had 2 football teams.

Sad really.

I think an option has been overlooked.

‘Actully support x or y, but will never openly admit it’ category?

I know myself that openly I would never support Rangers … but there have been times when I have been quietly chuffed they won.

What percentage I represent .. is arguable … but you might actually be surprised.

To be honest, I’m a football fan, but have zero interest in the World Cup because Scotland didn’t make it. I didn’t watch any of the last one either. I only watch matches/tournaments where a team I support is involved, so it’s maybe not THAT surprising that some identify as football fans but with no interest in the WC.

I have absolutely no interest in football, and not much in any sport TBH.

I have watch Andy Murray when he is in with a good chance of winning something important. Though I’m not really watch tennis, just cheering on a great Scot to achieve something great.

If I hear any Scot, or Scottish team, has done well I do think … nice one! But my motivation is to hear Scotland excelling at something in the eyes of the world.

The cringe exists and is all too common, so I like to enjoy the opposite feeling whenever possible.

What of England, or Japan, or Guatemala in sport? Couldn’t give hoot.

Ascotintheworld. Same as that, when Scotland dont qualify for a world cup or European nations, i never watch them. Also after 40yrs down saff, i have never watched an epl game.no interest.Only team I watch on tv ìs from the east end of Glasgow. And i do root for any Scottish clubs in Europe.

Ot on lbc this morning they were talking about car park charges in English hospitals and the compare Andrew Pearce said of course in Scotland one of their perks,is they do not pay them it is the English taxpayer who is subsiding this through something they call thr Banett formula so there you are we are being subsidise by England and our our good government policies for the people of Scotland are being called perks either Mr., Pearce is ignorant of the facts or like the media he chooses to lgnore them because the only way they can win an argument is to tell lies

Do I have to support someone when watching the World Cup?

I hope it is late enough to go off-topic, but I can’t help noticing that ‘The National’ is using you as a source document Stew. I hope they are paying for the privilege of using unique data that the rest of the MSM wouldn’t admit to using – more fool them.

I once supported Rangers, hoodwinked from supporting my natural local club, indoctrinated, until I grew up, in general.

Slightly ot, but it was interesting to hear that the FA and UEFA recently refused Jersey’s bid to join UEFA. This was on the basis that they weren’t proper independant nations, the BBC then give a list of non nations that play international football.

link to bbc.co.uk

I would have thought England should have been on that list too.

Put me down as a neanderthal, I like to see England do well in early round games to feed the hysteria then see them crashing out in a way that inflicts maximum pain ( other than that I am a really nice guy) I support Scotland why would I add England to my pain profile
Who cares what any individual team a person supports?
All over the UK people will be supporting England but no one will know because they are not at the game physically cheering them on, they are sending mental well wishes which in itself is well …..mental

It’s the way they plot England’s route to the final before the games have even started with total disregard to the opponent that gets on my wick.

They did it at the Euros of course when they organised their next match against France but they fell on their smarmy fucking faces when the mighty Iceland took them down.

What do they expect. The England footy team is being rammed down our throats. Every game shown live on STV in Scotland even when Scotland is playing at the same time. England, England always bloody England, keep it up STV you are an excellent recruiting Sergeant for the YES voters
.

I am by no means a great fan of England’s football team. In fact, let me rephrase that – I hate the bastards and their servile comentators with every bone in my body!

However, the thing that I found funniest of all was that in the 2012 Euros the self-professed , biggest hooligans in Europe actually did not have the balls to go to Ukraine. It seems that the lager swilling, pot bellied thugs did not relish the thought if going go up against an almost semi-pro team of thugs.

Why on earth would you support England if you are a Scot? I don’t follow football and have zero interest in it but if I did, my position re England would be complete disinterest. Neither for nor against.

England uses up so much of my tolerance for their so called “UK” sports coverage with the damned cricket every new bulletin (why???) that a) It is thoroughly tiresome to hear so much, so often, about a sport which means literally less than nothing to me, and b) Precisely because it is such a tiresome nuisance, I confess an English victory means absolutely nothing to me, although I do like to hear that England has been stuffed – by the Aussies, Kiwis, W Indies…. or anybody really. It doesn’t matter who.

It strikes me the closest equivalent would be Scotland broadcasting details of the Shinty to the Home Counties of England with the expectation they will find it to be of interest to them. I am quite sure the Home Counties would rather quickly find it a presumptuous and obnoxious imposition.

It isn’t that I bear animosity towards the English players. Quite the reverse. Truth be known I don’t envy them their time in the limelight with the nasty and fickle English press. They seem to put such an inordinate amount of pressure on their teams it must be thoroughly stressful and counter productive for the poor unfortunate players. – Heroes to zeroes on the flip of a coin.

Neither is it because you are biased. In sporting events there is bound to be an element of partisan challenge to impartiality. It’s natural. However a “good” sporting reporter, somebody like Bill McLaren for example, could always contain his personal feelings, and deal with victory or defeat with wit and good humour, and be studiously professional whenever the mic was turned on. Take note BBC. We need a little less celebrity and a lot more professionalism in your reporting.

But keeping it simple – If you must endlessly force me to watch or hear about the alien sport of Cricket, then I will very quickly resent it, and I will assuage my irritation and frequent frustration by thoroughly enjoying news of your defeat, and the more humiliating that defeat is, the better.

When you have such contempt for my own countries sporting ambitions that you can invest more in the wages of one single sports anchorman than you pay towards the whole sporting establishment in Scotland, then don’t bother asking me to support England on the “mutuality” ticket. It’s not going to happen. The “mutuality” karma means, if anything, that I will hold your English sporting achievements in the same contempt as you hold Scottish sport.

Important newsflash

Russia has launched their nuclear missiles, you have 30 minutes to get some cover and save yourself

And, for out next report, here are the cricket results ,lol

I allways celebrate the chinese new year, i know all the words to Old Ling Zing,

Should old ling zing be forgot
and never brought to ming
Should old ling zing be forgot
And, mings a ling a ding

Heh Heh Heh

Breeks 9.10pm. That’s it in a nutshell. All my 40yrs spent in England,All I’ve ever heard is how Scottish football is sh*te , Mickey mouse etc,etc. After all the underfunding from the ebc and sky I’m not surprised we struggle. But therefore why should I give a xxxx about English football or their world cup chances. They treat our sport with contempt,I’m hardly likely to root for them.

Which is also why I’ve never subscribed to sky in my life.

@galamcennalath says: 28 December, 2017 at 8:43 pm:

“Jeez, they have been at it for well over 400 years!”

You weren’t paying attention then, galamcennalath?

I’ve posted the facts many, many times here on Wings.

“The story of early Britain has traditionally been told in terms of waves of invaders displacing or annihilating their predecessors. Archaeology suggests that this picture is fundamentally wrong. For over 10,000 years people have been moving into – and out of – Britain, sometimes in substantial numbers, yet there has always been a basic continuity of population.

Before Roman times, ‘Britain’ was just a geographical entity and had no political meaning and no single cultural identity.

The gene pool of the island has changed, but more slowly and far less completely than implied by the old ‘invasion model’, and the notion of large-scale migrations, once the key explanation for change in early Britain, has been widely discredited.”

from :-

link to bbc.co.uk

It goes on to state:-

“Millions of people since Roman times have thought of themselves as ‘British’, for example, yet this identity was only created in 1707 with the Union of England, Wales and Scotland.

Before Roman times ‘Britain’ was just a geographical entity, and had no political meaning, and no single cultural identity. Arguably this remained generally true until the 17th century, when James I of England and VI of Scotland sought to establish a pan-British monarchy.
“

This is a real eye opener for most people but it is factually correct and a far more plausible account than most Wingers would have garnered from both the geography and the history they were taught in schools.

Factually the early Greeks circumnavigated the British Isles and the Greek scripts indicate they though of them as a vast white desert hence the names Albion and Alba.

However, the Romans came in around 54/55 BC and stayed for several centuries but they never conquered the northern areas who remained an able fighting force. The Romans left and since then the south Britons have been subjugated by the Germanic Tribes but these were not from what we now call Germany but pretty much the Scandinavian lands.

When the Romans left the South Britons were left defenceless and they invited in the Angles, Jutes Saxons and a few other Germanic Tribes to protect them and they gave the protectors free land in payment.

Inevitably the Germanic Tribes decided that they were onto a good thing and they became an elite ruling force that enslaved the aboriginal South Britons but that doesn’t make all the modern south Britons the Anglo-Saxons they believe themselves to be. Mainly only the aristocracy and royals are Germanic Anglo-Saxons genetically with an estimate of less than 5% actual Anglo Saxons genetically.

This elite ruling class remained Germanic until today. Even the Normans, (it’s short for Norsemen), that gave us the feudal system with hereditary peers still sitting in the HOL and the Royals still of Germanic blood today.

So awa an learn some real history – it might surprise you to find out when the Celts arrived – that’s pronounce Kelts and not as pronounced by a certain WOS fitba team.

Oh! And BTW: there is proof that the Scots were NOT imported from Ireland as recent digs on remote Scottish Islands indicate that artefacts found there pre-date those found in Ireland.

@Robert Peffers at 9:57

… puzzled … exactly what has that got to do with the fact that in ~1595 it was acceptable in England, much as it is there today, to consider the words England and Britain as synonymous?

Unless of course England is considered synonymous with Britain. Which clearly this did, and over 400 years ago!

Maybe. Shakespeare the Unionist, is a great title for a lit crit thesis.

From the England football team routinely tripping over their own feet today and to the shock of everyone except…

to Renaissance literature, only on WoS btl.

To be fair, a lot of them still want the French to hand back Calais too.

o/t Again SKY 10 o’clock news, item , renewables a whole report on Britains green energy, and records and milestones reached, it was obvious what was going on a total removal of any kind of reference to anything north of the border, While it went on at length and referred to Britain as one of the leaders in the world cutting reliance on coal and gas .

NOT ONE f/n REFERENCE TO SCOTLANDS CONTRIBUTION.

Aye better together as long as we shut the f/k up and sit in a corner .

@ Robert Peffers.
” it is factually right ” actually it is factually wrong. The letters bbc, the state propagandist,should act as a heads up regarding this kind of stuff.
The word Britain comes from Gaul, their word for the people of these islands, was ‘ Priti or Pretani, thought to to mean picture people, possibly tattoos. The close relationship between, Latin, Greek and the Celtic languages, explains the easy transformation from Pretani to Briton.

As far as their being no common culture, that’s complete blocks. They shared a common language, which currently is classed as Brithonic. No doubt different dialects, but the same language as witnessed in common place names, easily identified, Aber, for example. The Picts ( picture people ) shared shared a language with the rest of this island. There were also Picts ( Pretani ) in Ireland.

Language is one indicator of shared culture, religion is the other. The Gods of the South were the same as the Gods in the North, the standing stones in Orkney may predate Stonehenge by a thousand years, but they represent the exact same religion, as do the Druids, common to all tribes across these Islands. It is very possible that, Alba, Alban, Albion was the religious cultural centre for Celtic Europe.

Albion was the native name for this Island, possibly meaning white land, it predates the Celtic language, Brithonic, Alban. Gaelic Alba

galamcennalath says:
28 December, 2017 at 10:27 pm
heedtracker says:

a lot of them still want the French to hand back Calais too

Henry V has a great speech in Henry V, all about beating the French. Laurence Olivier made his WW2 propaganda movie version which ends,

And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game’s afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’

That really stuck it to the Hun. But no Scots.

This is what happens today ofcourse, when just enough Scots prefer Scotland, the vassal state but for how much longer?

Also, I highly doubt Shakespeare’s a yoon.

That should, off course be “James VI and I”

@Robert Graham

Pleased to hear the the Scottish branch of the BMA are having a go at the BBC. About time the Police Federation and the teachers Union in Scotland did the same.

So too all health staff Unions, they should speak up for their members against the daily onslaught from the BBC and Tory press which serves only one purpose.

SNP BAD!

Never a mention of how these workers constantly are outperforming their colleagues in the other parts of the UK. That wouldn’t do.

galamcennalath says:
28 December, 2017 at 10:07 pm

@Robert Peffers at 9:57

… puzzled …

In an uneducated guess I would surmise that an Englishman at that time with a modicum knowledge of history and geography would know of the Romans and their label of the whole of the island (Scotland, Wales & England) as Britain and automatically assume the whole to be England. Perhaps this is the same today for many as it was then. How often do we hear Americans on the media in the present day, speak of England when they mean Britain.

He was ultimately just making a living and trying to please the locals. He even wrote MacBeth to please the new arrival from Scotland , James IV and I.

Maybe but keep in mind Macbeth came to a very sticky end, after killing the King of Scotland first. James was so popular in England at the time, they tried to blow him up, aka Guy Fox, who was not trying to blow up the House of Commons at all, only to kill his new Scottish king. Macbeth was first performed same year as Guy Fox was plotting.

James only got the English King gig because it was the last word and wish of Elizabeth, an English Tudor making a Stuart Scot, king of England, keeping in mind, she had murdered his mum and her dad waged an almost endless war on Scotland, or the “rough wooing,” costing countless Scottish lives, laying waste lowland Scotland…

sSo once you get into it all, stripping away all kinds of bullshit, especially Victorian, about this union and empire, it gets very Shakespearean.

In Shakespeare’s time, everyone knew that England had conquered Wales and Ireland. And they knew Scotland would be next, one way or another.

I’m glad we are not going… I will kinda pity the English hooligans, as they get chased around Red Square by the Russian far right nutters.

What I want to know is; how there are three (or is it four? I’ve no interest in football at all) teams from the UK in the World Cup, but the UK only has one entry in the vastly more important Eurovision Song Contest?

(Well, it’s vastly more important in our house.)

And why is it all right for commentators on the Eurovision Song Contest to sneer at neighbouring countries voting for each other – the Scandewegian countries, and various bits of Eastern Europe always give each other a leg up when they can – but the same people wail with frustration when Scotland doesn’t ‘support’ its neighbours.

Daft I call it.

Good point Colin Alexander that is why I would like a well known face of the SNP to become the equivalent of ‘ a minister’ of constitutional affairs or an Independence minister and then when Brewer tosses his hair and lines up the question,the ‘ minister ‘ could say here’s Professor ‘expert in your exact topic Gordy ‘ to answer your questions.

Clean up on aisle 77!

Continued membership of the single market means continued membership of the EEA, and the customs union is separtely negotiated. Neither mean membership of EFTA. Membership of EFTA can make it easier getting into the EEA, and EFTA has its own trade agreements (50 of them I think), that is all.

Next.

Seventeen is down.

Eighteen is up.

Stay standin’.

Thank you.

Please.

Lucky.

Zen.

Worth a read. 🙂

link to thenational.scot

The BBC GMS RADIO show..
Why not have the journalist/reporter, who’s chit-chatting with the bunch of ignorant unionists, reply with FACTS, instead of listening to people deliberately MIS-REPRESENT the situation.

Makes me sick, to hear such pish broadcast to frighten old folks and idiots.

Still Positive says:
29 December, 2017 at 1:02 am
The pnr @ 12.29

Despite that there are many MPs in the HoC still arguing for EFTA membership.

Seems to me that the whole sorry story of Brexit has been delusional and ill informed from the outset. I would go further and describe it a wilful blindness and denial of reality. Within hours of the Brexit referendum result, the EU was making various statements and references to Lisbon Treaty Articles and have not altered or deviated from such parameters at all.

The UK however has squandered month after excruciating month on an extended sight seeing detour which has turned into an epic, and tragic, long journey of self discovery, only to find ourselves back where we started – dealing with EU on the terms they described from the beginning,

Every word of the UK’s Brexit narrative post Brexit result is actually the long overdue process of awakening which should have taken place before the referendum. Every word about a “soft Brexit”, a bespoke Trade Deal, a selective acceptance of EU criteria; is all just more of the same deluded jumbo-jumbo. The UK has no capacity whatsoever to negotiate any Brexit resolution other than to accept the terms offered by Europe on a take it or leave it basis. The UK’s problem is that nevermind reading the small print, the UK has never troubled itself to read the big print either.

It’s no secret, I have been, and remain, staunchly in favour of Scotland’s EU Membership, and I have always seen EFTA as a grossly inferior compromise which ticks one or two of the right boxes where EU membership ticks them all.

As a sovereign member state in Europe, Scotland would have had influence in Europe which would have allowed us to lobby for issues such as Catalonia and Europe would have had to formally listen to us. Scotland would also have a sovereign veto to freeze and contain any aspect of EU policy which we found unacceptable, – a principle soundly illustrated by Ireland’s unimpeachable capacity to kill off a UK Brexit deal over the Border issue, (and yet to be illustrated again with Spain over Gibraltar).

Furthermore, the whole “collective” principle of the EU which makes it a slow and clumbersome vehicle to alter course, is also the same collective principle which makes it so massive and powerful that it can dictate the terms of how “lesser” factions interact with it. If anyone wants a Trade Deal with the EU, the EU has secured for itself a position of strength which can ensure that EU legislative capacity is dominant over standards, terms and conditions, and able to establish the appropriate benchmarks which others have to meet.

In the EU as a member means ALL of Europe’s existing Trade Deals with some 150+ non-EU countries are still applicable to Scotland, with the added bonus that Scotland will gain influence and right of veto on new trade agreements. EFTA is a much smaller body with much smaller quota leverage over its own non-EU trade agreements, and no leverage at all over the EU. To see what EFTA means in practice, Google Switzerland’s “Swiss Trap” Trade Deal with the EU.

If the Swiss break a single clause in any of the numerous bilateral agreements that make up their trade deal with the EU, their whole economic relationship falls to pieces. There is an all-or-nothing “guillotine clause” which forces Switzerland to accept EU law, however that law evolves, but without any power to influence that law, or to break away without risking enormous economic damage. Why did the Swiss agree to it? Because the EU said take it or leave it.

Scotland should, and must, think long and hard about the empowerment that is implicit with EU Membership, and the token access but negligible empowerment provided by EFTA. These are not like-for-like alternatives. Scotland as an EU member state is going to be an infinitely stronger proposition with an incredible amount of influence and collective umbrella which EFTA simply cannot deliver.

The “E” for Europe in EU means us. The “E” for Europe in EFTA refers to “them”. It’s a BIG difference.

My schooldays ended in 1958 after having been forced to study Shakespeare’s plays for year after year.

I cannot think of any benefit whatsoever gained by studying said plays. Am I a Philistine in holding that opinion or do others agree that the time would have been better spent studying something useful?

I was forced to study Latin for 4 years until I was able to drop it after the 3rd Year of Senior School.

Although I hated every minute of it I have since realised that the time spent on Latin has been of great benefit unlike the time wasted on Shakespeare.

“… disinterested…” I think you mean uninterested.

Me too, Shakespeare Shakespeare and do as you’re told, we had to all learn to be good English subjects from the frozen North till we grew up to start our real lives when we went to London to work for the benefit of that Country and not for the one we lived in

I believe they used to call it the brain drain
plus of course it did help to keep the population down in Scotland, much easier to control your asset when it has no power itself

It’s been a long used tactic of the Great Empire of London
so never kid yourselves English folk who live outside London, you folks are just as much fodder for London as Scotland always was

It’s not a step up to go to London to work, it’s a step down and loss for the area you leave behind you

See how that works

In the good old, bad old days only 10% of the population went to university. 90% were excluded from professional jobs unless they did alternative part-time etc study. Shakespeare was quite boring. Grammar etc. People with additional needs were left behind. Often extremely talented people. Everything invented in the world is mainly by those on the spectrum. In Scotland 55% of the population have a higher/uni education. One of the highest in the world. Others go on to college, apprenticeships or training, 98%.

A healthy, educated population is important for a successful economy.

Sectarian ‘sporting’ clubs ruin the economy.

Westminster decisions ruins the Scottish economy. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Take £Billions out of Scotland. Better educated people are realising and sharing.

Thank goodness for the SNP Gov on the right track.

Scottish invention shaped the modern world. TV, telecommunication led on to the internet. People can’t be fooled so easily anymore.

Re the SNHS.

Last night’s Radio Scotland’s music programme “Get It On” had several high-praise stories about healthcare from listeners responding to the ‘Thank You, 2017’ theme

I did text the presenter with a warning that the Misreporting Scotland team would be after him for that!

@Colin Alexander
“It begs the question: if the SNP want an indyref YES campaign to win based on the option that an indy Scotland could join EFTA, why are they trying to strengthening the Union’s hand to block that policy?”

Because there is pretty much no chance the UK will relent to any wish of the Scottish government.
They have to be seen as trying to exhaust all possibilities BEFORE calling for a referendum.

Of course once a referendum is called, it is easy for the UK establishment to disrupt that. I would imagine another GE for example – Scotland is far more important to the UK establishment than the individual establishment parties. The Best course of action for the SNP (and the greens) IMHO is to stand with a manifesto solely for independence.

@gus1940
“Am I a Philistine in holding that opinion or do others agree that the time would have been better spent studying something useful?”

No I feel exactly the same. Lots of qualifications but the most important things I have studied have been out of work and academia..
1) money creation
2) permaculture

efta/eea membership isnt as good as eu membership, no question about it. but it is a stance which will make indyref2 more winnable.
you need to walk before you run and we need to win our independence before we can address such issues

“ Scottie dog@1101”, An eminently sensible answer to the question Scottie dog, and yes perhaps the next Holyrood election ( May blocks section 30), could be our “ Independence referendum”

To go back a few years; my great-uncle always had a season ticket for Hibs, but if they were away he’d go to watch Hearts (or occasionally Meadowbank).

@North chiel

I agree the SNP – or other pro-indy candidates – could use an election as the means of deciding independence. In effect, turning an election into an indyref.

I believe, even if Scotland elected 100% indy MSPs the UK Govt would say MSPs can only deal with devolved issues, indy is not devolved.

But then,if Scotland elects 100% indy MPs they would say that’s just 59 out of 650 UK MPs and it’s UK Govt and MPs as a whole that decide the UK’s constitutional matters.

Ultimately, the only sure way of achieving anything is by acting without UK approval. Unilaterally dissolving the Union.

@Colin Alexander 1.04/1.14pm

From the SNP website – Constitution

“We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

Following the EU referendum, the First Minister made clear that the SNP Scottish government will explore all options to protect Scotland’s place in Europe. We believe that independence is not the only option – but if it turns out to be the best or only way to protect Scotland’s interests, then the Scottish people must have the right to consider it.”

@Ron Maclean

Thank you for that response.

Colin Alexander you come on here all the time attacking the SNP. This site is Wings over Scotland so give us a rest from your barrage of Jackie Bailey. The SNP have there own website go moan there please. Merry Christmas ?

29th Dec 11.06am
To summarise, the SNP’s position of trying to force the UK into membership of EFTA /EEA and the Single Market is actions they have no democratic mandate for.

29th Dec 3.34pm
Thank you. You are technically correct, the SNP are not explicitly trying to force UK membership of EFTA.

Your forever dancing on the head of a pin and change your argument when it suits even within a matter of hours. The SNP are forcing the UK into membership of EFTA. Well actually your technically correct yesindyref2 they are NOT trying to force the UK into EFTA.

Make your mind up, I honestly don’t know why you bother, I’d be embarrassed.

@yesindyref2 4.54pm

Todays winning comment and all the points go to yesindyref2

Colin

Is technically correct mean that indyref2 is correct?

Tell me this – if Scotland stays in the Eu or efta as an independent nation can we remove nuclear weapons, choose to go to war or not? Answer – the choice is ours.

Now if we remain in the English union can we choose not to go to war etcetera or are we told to shut up and dae as we’re telt.

Don’t answer. I know it

RE: Brian Doonthetoon at 2:46 pm.

I see nobody has been brave enough to offer an answer to the question I posed,

“What does the EU do?”

Since 1998, every time Scotland fails to qualify I lose even more interest in the world cup. When it does come I usually start to take more interest but ultimately the more times Scotland fail to qualify the more irrelevant it seems to become for me. I wonder if that’s the reasoning of some of the 18%. It’s the same for the champions league for me, once Celtic is out it’s dead to me, only a handful of teams actually have a chance of winning it anymore and it’s the same for the world cup. It was not always thus, whilst if you look through the winners list it can seem a monopoly once existed the fact is even Scottish teams had a chance of winning the cup with big ears and not so long ago many people thought Scotland would win the world cup! Oh how times change.

@Colin Alexander
I can spend many paragraphs espousing the benefits of a free floating currently and indeed spent a lot of time doing this in the lead up to indyref1. In that I was fully in agreement with Mr sillars.
This is the right way to go for an independent Scotland. Of that I’m sure.
A big word of caution on all of this though. Think of of project fear1 but this time on steroids. We will see warnings of hyper-inflation, huge devaluation and of course warnings that Scotland will have to ‘balance the books’ in order to ‘show the bond vigilantes’ we are ‘responsible’.

All of the above is utter crap but it is the centre piece of neoliberal economics and impartial bodies like IFS, Fraser of allander etc will be posting ‘warnings’ for an independent Scotland.
Debunking the economics of the above organisations is easy but it is another challenge altogether to get people to question the ideology they have been indoctrinated with for decades.

Although I disagreed with the currency choice in 2014, I could see politically why it was a desirable choice. In any case it is part of the central bank’s remit to maintain economic stability. It would of course be of no benefit for the Bank of England and the English treasury to economically destroy Scotland.
It would have course not benefit Scotland to use the £ in the long term but there would most certainly have been close cooperation. The rest was politics.

We in Scotland get Englands commentary no matter who we watch playing football, just check this out from now on whenever you watch an international game on tv, the commentators will always mention the England football team and will specifically look for players that play for an English team or have played for an English team or were scouted by an English team or have a granny that supports an English team.Its the same with the rugby internationals they will take every opportunity to talk about England even if England are not playing !!! It’s the British nationalists way the englishing of Scotland

@ScottieDog @Thepnr

“The rest was politics”. Indyref is all politics.