Firing blanks
This is getting properly embarrassing.
Because that starting gun must be red-hot by now.
It was previously fired nine months ago.
It was fired in April 2019.
(Alert readers may notice that 2021 has come and gone, the Scottish Government has NOT acted and Scotland has very much NOT been saved from Brexit.)
It was fired in May 2018.
It was fired in March 2017.
It was fired in October 2016.
It had already been fired in June of that year.
As far as we can tell, it was first fired in September 2015.
Amusingly, the six-year period in that headline expired eight months ago and we’re still no closer to another referendum than we were then. Although according to The National, the campaign actually started three years ago and is now on Day 1,124.
(They stopped listing the days on the masthead after Day Two, obviously.)
It’s been 16 months since the sort-of newspaper exclusively revealed the SNP’s incredible 11-point plan to bring about a second referendum.
It’s perhaps worth reminding ourselves of how that’s gone.
The first four points of the “plan” were just a recap of previous events. But the 5th point made some specific pledges.
That “draft bill” finally arrived ten months after it had been promised, barely two weeks before the 2021 election. Those ten months of work produced a bill just three pages long, with the Scottish Government website proudly announcing that the “balot” [sic] was “avaliable” [sic] “within in” [sic] the supporting documents.
The bill is so comically short and content-free we may as well reproduce it in full. Page 1 can be accurately and completely summarised as an extremely long-winded version of the sentence “The referendum will take place on a date of some kind”.
Page 2 can be fully summarised as “This bill is a bill.”
And page 3 tells us exactly what size the ballot-paper voting boxes will be (21mm) and what kind of font the text will be written in (sans serif, 14pt or more).
And that’s it. That’s what took ten months to prepare and was considered a key part of the great indyref2 masterplan. (Although actually it took almost four and a half years. The Scottish Government began consulting on the draft bill in October 2016.)
Points 6 and 7 of the 11-point “strategy” were empty waffle and as far as we’re aware point 8 has still not been enacted, 16 months after the “plan” was unveiled and more than a year after the 2021 election victory that would supposedly trigger the request.
The last request made by the Scottish Government for a Section 30 order remains the one made in December 2019, two and a half years ago, 13 months before the “plan” was published.
So points 9-11, such as they are, are yet to come into play.
9 and 11 are of course meaningless gibberish anyway and always were. But point 10 doesn’t even BEGIN to mean anything until Sturgeon carries out Point 8 by requesting a Section 30 again, at which point the process outlined in the plan – passing the bill, testing the question, deciding the date, resolving any legal challenge in the Supreme Court – could get under way.
It would all have to be done and dusted by about this time next year to allow time for a few months of actual campaign before a vote by September/October 2023 at the latest. (Because you really, really can’t gamble on having an indyref in Scotland in November or December and making the whole thing hostage to winter weather.)
Anyone who thinks there’s the tiniest chance of all that happening within the next year when it took nearly half a decade to produce the 745 words of padded-out nothing-fluff in the draft bill is, frankly, a drooling imbecile who shouldn’t be allowed to buy biscuits unsupervised, let alone decide the future of a nation.
You can fire as many guns as you like, but nobody’s even on the way to the bus stop to get to the stadium yet, never mind on the starting blocks. They’re all back home, eating bunch after bunch of limp, rancid, rotten carrots.
Perhaps what we’re hearing is the echo of the initial firing of the #indyref2 gun around the empty heads of the Sturgeonistas?
Time to dust down that plebiscitary election Plan B folks?
The ratio on The National ‘exclusive’ is of interest.
Even ignoring the usual yoonatics, the ratio, level of ridicule and general negative vibe is telling.
I genuinely believe this Sunday is the tipping point. As the disappointment of her ‘essay’ (which was drivel BTW) sets in, the prospectus fails to materialise and 2023 comes and goes, her tea will be oot.
The sad thing is, I’m not sure at all the clique who will follow her have any alternate ideas or plans.
What a fucking mess.
So the Covid years excepted, NS has fired that starting gun every year since 2015.
I have to say I admire consistency in a woman. Maybes I need to have a wee re-think about my opinion of the FM.
There will be no referendum until someone with a spine is in charge & tears up the Scotland Act.
This shower of shyte we currently have in charge won’t be happy until we’re locked in ‘Catelonia style’ forever & we can all bet our £600k *ring fenced* funds on that certainty cause sure as shyte Whitehall hasn’t been sitting on their arse discussing the definition of what a woman is!! ??
‘This has occurred once, and will occur again’, said Euphorbus. ‘It is not one pyre you are lighting, it is a labyrinth of fire. If all the fires on which I have been burned were brought together here, the earth would be too small for them, and the angels would be blinded. These words I have spoken many times’.
Until there is a date announced and ANY meaningful legislation for said date of referendum passed in Holyrood she and the rest of the SNP might as well be putting up the bunting for “union day” celebrations. Perhaps they actually are.
Well – “You can fool a part of the people all the time & all of the people a part of the time but you can’t fool all the people all the time” – except in Scotland if you’re a National reader, it seems.
Thank you for this useful collection of first firings, Stu. It’s all a bit Animal Farm in the Yes movement at the moment, where the writing on the end of the barn keeps changing and the animals struggle to remember what used to be there, yet keep believing in whatever-the-hell they were meant to believe in.
We are seriously overdue some fresh thinking for Yessers to coalesce behind. Hopefully Alba can keep plugging away and eroding the SNP’s voter base, but at a faster rate. It’ll take a little time, but I don’t know if we have time before the coming economic disaster and whatever social policy misadventures Sturgeon and Harvie decide we deserve.
Unambiguous decision to hold a referendum. 1. Not going to happen the Scottish electorate have been lulled in to a state of Insouciance by the current cabal .
2. The deal is irrelevant because the UK will not stick to ANY of it anyway.
They never do , and as this “deal” unravels be worried for Scotland the
Lawbreakers and cheaters will have triumphed .
3. Not 1 policy has been advanced in 8 years not 1. Scotland is ill prepared to be an Independent country again.
No more carrots ?
In this area the SNP lost control of the council. Message after message from the party to the members has been to blame the members for not coming out to campaign. The existing councillors had to do almost all the campaigning themselves, seemingly.
There is not a word of self awareness, not a thought about WHY the members did not show up in the same numbers as in previous elections. Just blaming the members.
Labour has taken back control of the council with support from a handful of Tories and LibDems. Again – no thinking about WHY that happened. Maybe something to do with all the party had to say during the campaign was against Boris Johnson, against the Tories. Well blow me down with a feather if there wasn’t going to be some benefit in that for Labour. Lots of older folk still think it’s either Tories or Labour – isn’t that what the BBC tells us???
Nothing will improve until the present leadership of the SNP is gone, rooted out and bleached away. Then if there’s any new leadership that puts Independence first and foremost, then maybe we will start to rebuild.
As an aside Wings – have you been following the turd case?
2 points that may interest you & the rest of us for indy. Testimonies of banned for life Twitter accs Inc verified lawyers for zero reason given & analytics experts as dodgy as feck!
UK judgment, from ‘the highest court in the land’ was based on turd giving her £7 mil to charity. Apparently, the rule of law wasn’t important!
Indyref2 would be screwed from the get go! A dodgy biased UK Supreme court ruling & the shutting down of any dissenting voices on social media on a whim.
@Dave M 11.38 pm
I think a lot of people hope brexit would provide the “big push”, even if it took a while for the negative economic effects to filter through and hopefully convince “soft No / Remain” voters to switch to supporting independence. Perhaps the double whammy of the brexit impacts and war in Ukraine will concentrate more people’s minds?
It would be great if Alba can capitalise on discontent within the movement particularly and “cannibalise” support from the SNP. I still don’t see much prospect of the SNP membership growing a pair and getting rid of Sturgeon or her legacy. Hopefully Alba will come out with some policy positions which put clear water between themselves and the devolusionists and centrists in the SNP.
If not, I’m not sure what other prospect there is for achieving independence in the short/medium term.
Word fail.
Just how much shite are we supposed to swallow?
I don’t think they actually care, as long as there is the thinnest of veneers that allows them to continue in their weird little world.
There more chance of seeing the tooth fairy than there is seeing Nicola Sturgeon starting the firing gun, we all know this. Its a pitty the Americains don’t know her as well as the Scots or she would never have been invited to go to the USA. She not going to put her job or her celebrity status or her precious union at risk just to give us a Ref that we’ve all been voting for since 2017. If a Independence fund should happen to materialize, count me out I’d rather give my money to the tooth fairy.
The Rag will keep telling you what you want to know (Ref comming soon) as long as your gullible to keep spending your hard earned cash on a talking shop, talking about crap and bad mouthing other Pro-Indy parties, if The National died a fatal death my life would continue and I’d still vote for Independence.
The New SNP are going to struggle to get people like me who donated to the last funds to donate again, it aint going to happen.
All she has passed since being in office is globalist’s Ideology.
Banning free speech. And interference into the privacy rights of Scots homes.
Not recognising women. And Allowing men into women and children’s safe spaces
Climate change Ideology of banning fuel prior, to any other alternative fuel source being available.
Rewilding Scotland by first eliminating naturlised Scottish animals to extinction , then continuing by banning peoples future access to certain area’s.
Aiming to become a sovereign government over Scots sovereignty, like westminster claims. Taking the rights of people away.
Each and every one of these agenda’s you will easily find in the WEF, Davos, etc.
This Scottish leader ( laughing ) also wanted to tie itself to the EU,
Nothing in these idealogical global agenda’s is compatable with Scotland becoming independent in its own right, thoughts or actions.
And if you have time and the effort to develope these big agendas into Scotland,
it means she had the time to do Scottish independence legisture as well.
She is a manager for globlalist regime change in Scotland.
Her bum’s oot the windae!
Was surprised by how much of a damp squib her US visit was. Excited little comment, or even any decent trolling, and there were no major announcements that could be quietly dumped later on. It will be interesting to see if putting herself in the shop window brings her the international job of her dreams, because it felt more like a private lobbying visit that a governmental one, without even a fig-leaf of any Stronger For Scotland bullshit.
” The bog-paper ballet is liabubble ( to cause howls of derisory laughter ) with thin slices of carrot within in seconds of being read ”
Must have been one of those 7 year olds who form Stoogeon’s Praetorian Guard wot rote that peece of Learesque nonsense .
Wanks firing blanks
Multiplying Food Banks
Weird * wummin * wae baws makin-up weird laws .
NAW .
No fckn thanks
@James Che
“Rewilding Scotland by first eliminating naturlised Scottish animals to extinction , then continuing by banning peoples future access to certain area’s.”
What’s with the opposition to re-wilding…?
And how is it related to globalism and WEF?
Dave M.
I tend to think the same,
I do not think we have the time to wait, hopping and hoping from one fixed election to the next.
With years of waiting, in between
These WEF, WHO. DAVOS etc leaders have spoken out themselves for their plans.
At one time it was called a conspiriacy in theory only.
Now we are able to watch them and listen to their plans on TV, the Msm, and every other outlet you can think of,
They are no longer shy,
We are just wainting for the slower people to catch on,
But there is good ole Nick right their in the front of the game,
Implementing and copying and implementing everything they suggest into Scotland.
I’ll say it again, if we were already independent, i doubt she would still be in place,
The mums and dads alone would have chucked her out,
This is a bad time for all those who support the Cause of Scotland’s independence.
But it’s a very, very bad time for the English Ruling Class and those who support the Union.
Glad to know you’re alive and well, Stu. ????????
Oh, dear. I added 2 emoji and got a bunch of ?????? for my mistake.
Sorry guys.
Could we BUY her out? How much would it take to encourage her to go quietly and quickly?
Now that is a crowdfunder that I would be willing to donate to because nothing else is working. There’s no uprising from the parliamentary groups and the membership is hamstrung by the party HQ.
Aye and the the unrecognised women of Scotland would have given her the boot.
Next would be those struggling to put food on their table, and those unable to heat their homes or drive their cars.
Unrest is on the horizen,
But wether we will be to late is another matter,
More chance of Mons Meg being fired than the SNP, who under Sturgeon have achieved the square-root of bu66er all to advance Indy, running Indyref2 next year.
If you believe their pish, I’ve a bridge in London you might be interested in buying…
“As an aside Wings – have you been following the turd case?”
The what now?
Sarah,
She has already had our money, in donations we cannot trace.
The sane and educated citizen’s of Scotland have to be convinced that Independence will be better for us all.
The sheep that currently support the SNP are unable to think for themselves and will happily swallow any crap that the Cult continue to roll out time after time. These people are in the minority.
If they are serious, the SNP have to set out projected, honest ‘financials’ for an Independent Scotland for scrutiny. In the world today it is all about money. Too think otherwise is simply naïve. There are also hundreds of other questions that have to addressed, with satisfactory responses, to convince any doubters to effectively switch to yes. The SNP are clearly unable to do this. If they could, they would have done so by now. No other party, including ALBA, are willing to take a stab at this either. The question that has to be asked is WHY? The default position they all seem to take is-‘It will all be fine, come Independence! Only the sheep are buying this line.
Looking at the top 4 in the SNP hierarchy-
Sturgeon-a failed solicitor
Forbes-a failed Banker
Swinney-failed at every job he has ever had-but outstanding as a performing seal
Useless-a call centre operative. No idea if he was any good at that but hardly a precursor as a Health Minister.
There will be no Independence referendum in 2023. Sturgeon knows that defeat would ensue and she would have to go. The USA visit was simply a fishing exercise for another job.
When she leaves the SNP, the party will fall apart. Alba, with Salmond as Leader, is tainted in the minds of too many and will not attract enough disillusioned SNP sheep when they inevitably fail.
The Independence movement has to get rid off Sturgeon, start afresh, with honesty and integrity. It will take years but this is the only way forward. All via the ballot box.
The populace HAVE to be convinced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXgmQDFhPjo
there’s too much cynicism in politics these days.
It’s not going to happen I firmly believe the current SNP will string everyone along until eventually the old crooked Labour take over at Edinburgh.
We had our chances we did not take them I think we should stand down save ourselves the me and money.
Perhaps our children will start a campaign in a decade or so.
Chas.
We do not have years,
Lucky if we have nine months,
Look at the bigger picture,
Bill gates said,
” quote”
The next virus may be worse, like small pox or some thing like that”
Now i ask you how did he know in advance,
Well Will monkey pox do,
More lockdowns are on their way, and perhaps more severe.
Lock the Scots into their houses, but keep the rest of the flow of people going in airports, boats and campers for staycations,
We cannot even close our borders, while we are not independent. To manage this next virus.
Will we leave that to bojo the clown, priti patel, or jeremy hunt,
Sheeesh…that didn’t take long. The OP has only been up around 2 hours with 30 comments and the moon howling conspiracy nutters are already hijacking the thread with their “we’re doomed, doomed I tell ye!” fuckwittery.
Two rules.
We were locked up in open prisons, named lockdowns.
While MPs partied and had close contact affairs.
We were in lockup/ lockdowns.
While unvaccinated, not tested refugees were transported over the border and given ready made council houses near me covertly.
Good spin on words by the way,
Change “locked up”
To “locked down”
But just the same.
sarah says:
22 May, 2022 at 12:40 pm
Could we BUY her out? How much would it take to encourage her to go quietly and quickly?
I’m guessing no.
£600k disappeared and she didn’t even blush.
@ James Che at 12.49: “she has already had our money..”
Yes, I know, and we didn’t get what we paid for. But I am desperate for independence and nothing is getting her out of the driving seat – no rumours or known facts of various failings in public office – so I am willing to buy her off. If that worked, we could be free. Bliss.
Nice to hear you agree about the nutters on MSM and nearly all other social outlets telling everyone through recorded televised meetings and summits their plans for the populations.
Even the MSM have discussed how it will collapse economies and capitalism.
I did not realise you watched DAVOS, the WEF, WHO, and such as the G7 etc summits as they progress.
Sarah,
Nice thought,
But I am afraid they would just do a runner with our money for a second time.
Maybe I’m too easily triggered, but who the fk launches a Nationwide Independence Campaign via an “essay” sent to an online Sunday newspaper that’s only read by 2/3ds of the Wee Ginger Dug brigade, and even then, the launch IS marketed as an “exclusive”?
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
22 May, 2022 at 12:49 pm
“As an aside Wings – have you been following the turd case?”
The what now?
The Amber Heard/Johnny Depp libel case.
She’s having as much success with starting guns as she did with irons
‘The what now?’
The Amber He*rd defamation case going on in Virginia.
She has a new tactic to use this time.
She simply takes a suitcase of booze into No 10 Downing St
at the next party there, gets Boris drunk, how could you tell,
Give him £200K to replace the wallpaper in the flat, £500k,
assure him you will cover up his misdemeanours for him and there you have it.
An Indy Ref, you are expecting Boris’s 8th baby, a multi million pound PPE Contract,
a Dame Hood and Nicola is the new Commander of the Met.
Wack a mole, oven ready, build it better, jam tomorrow Indy Exit Done!
Indy supporting SNP diehards I have spoken to are either clinging on in hope or really believe that Sturgeon knows something that the rest of us don’t and that is why she is acting as she does and “waiting for her chance”. I give up in trying to tell them that there is no longer any hope with the SNP and that nothing is going on behind the scenes. There is a march in my area soon and I won;t be going. what’s the bloody point?
Its not the starting gun that needs fired its Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots and her troughing clique.
I think we know which side Sturgeon is batting for an its not Scotland’s. I’m wondering why Sturgeon the betrayer is backing herself into a corner with this one, she’s promised so much for next year, that when it comes and goes without an indyref more indy minded folk will begin to think (apart for the Dugs Mugs) hang on a minute.
Or is Sturgeon going to going ask for the S30 knowing fine well Johnson will say no, and she can shrug her shoulders and say oh well I asked. Or is Sturgeon’s intentions to drag it through the courts when Johnson says no, knowing that at the end of the years long process the answer again will come down on the unions side, either way Sturgeon will come of out it smelling of roses, as she can say I tried my hardest but the baddies at Westminster and the Supreme court said no.
And whilst all this is going on and eating up precious time Westminster will be tightening the knot around legislation for an indyref and reducing Holyrood’s powers.
“The OP has only been up around 2 hours with 30 comments and the moon howling conspiracy nutters are already hijacking the thread with their “we’re doomed, doomed I tell ye!” fuckwittery.”
This one obviously doesn’t realise the gravity of the situation, or doesn’t care more like.
“The sane and educated citizen’s of Scotland have to be convinced that Independence will be better for us all.”
Chas.
Duh! If they are educated they should already know that independence is far better than being part of this ball and chain union.
What a dumb sentence.
James Che 1:06
“The next virus may be worse”
That is true, obviously, but then so is this:
The next virus may not be worse.
You must learn to recognise weasel phrases like “may be” or “could be”. Their opposites are also always equally true, meaning that a weasel phrase and its opposite cancel each other out, with the result that nothing meaningful has been said.
If Gates said “the next virus will be worse” we would all have something to genuinely worry about. But he didn’t say that. So, as you were, James.
allium
She can do as many Eva Peron esque world tours as she likes – we’ll never get independence while their WMD are docked here. Never.
That’s why Obama interfered in the first indyref & the masked threats of being outside NATO & no longer an ally to the US.
*Fakes surprised face* You know, I thought it was just that nasty man Putin who interfered in elections? Ummmm.. LOL!
@Chas 12:52
I was going to post commending your post, but Repo got in first at 2:15 with his criticism, thus proving my point.
It really is all about the money. Convincingly and plausibly prove to Scots and all the others who are resident in Scotland that we will be better off as in personally richer in an independent Scotland and independence will arrive like shit off the proverbial.
Telling Scots that they are too dumb to grasp the essentials (the Repo argument) has not worked and will not work.
Disposable income. Folding money. Moolah in the bank. For most normal people, forget about 1707, the Clearances, and all the rest. Tell us how rich we will be when Independent. But you have to make it convincing, because we are actually not that dumb.
I am worried that she possibly WILL hold some sort of half baked vote with the blessing of the British (under their rules) to sink Independence further and cement her place as Devo Queen.
She wouldn’t stand down. She’s divided the movement as never before; an opportunity? It’d be a risk for the British but Johnson is reckless.
John main.
May i suggest doing some research and not just taking my word for it,
Its recorded if you want to find it, i found it easily.
Depends if you want to be in learning mode or just opposition defence.
Is anyone Watching Scottish Prism?
Bill Gates pronouncing on anything is still no more, nor less an opinion, as is much of «the science» about which he bloviates.
Microbiology is an infant among the sciences and very much work in progress, as indeed are all disciplines based on observation, experimentation, research and exhaustive trial, but that is not headline grabbing stuff.
@Putin’s Poodle 2.12 pm
“This one obviously doesn’t realise the gravity of the situation, or doesn’t care more like.”
I care about Scotland’s independence, and seeing it achieved sooner rather than later. The general economic situation is pretty grave, as is the prospect of achieving independence any time soon, whether via referendum, plebiscitary elections or some other means.
The small minority who punt outlandish fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories ostensibly explaining why we’re not progressing faster towards our goal are a clear an present danger to the cause, arguably even more dangerous that the yoons and britnats, at least some of whom are open to reason and changing their beliefs.
The evidence seems to suggest the moon howlers aren’t for turning. They may still believe in the same ultimate goal as us, the real issue is how many ordinary folk do they scare off with their woo-woo?
We have to concentrate on energy bills
I dont know how you will get this PM to agree to an Indy ref can someone explain how.That does not mean dont hold one but it has to be lagal .After all Alex Salmond got David Cameron to agree .Has anyone published what the current legal advice is.
When the guardian and the telegraph report on the wicked witch,
Although similiar in some ways,
I notice that neither of them have learned that the main independence movement here in Scotland are not connecting them selves to the snp any longer.
Are they stuck in yesterdays bubble,
Or do they wish to tie the two together for convenience.
It’s surprising the ISS has not announced Scotland visible especially from space since we have turned luminous orange from all the carrots so many have been eating from the SNP shop for Vegetables.
‘Sturgeon fires stun gun again on latest independence drive’, more apt
Andy Ellis says: 22 May, 2022 at 4:06 pm
The small minority who punt outlandish fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories ostensibly explaining why we’re not progressing faster towards our goal are a clear and present danger to the cause, arguably even more dangerous that the yoons and britnats, at least some of whom are open to reason and changing their beliefs.
This applies not merely to politics or other social campaigns, but to many matters in life.
Much of what we take for granted about recycling and green energy ought to have become more mainstream decades befure – especially since some of it (wind and water power) already had proven track records in human civilisation for a thousand years. But because the green lobby was hijacked by cranks and perverts the moment it got a whiff of mainstream interest, it had to fight damn hard to get a fair hearing, let along credibility.
At Uni, one of my tutor’s pet hobby horses was his hatred of so-called “local historians”, cranks hyped by local rags looking for any native crap to fill the pages (inbetween the other half of housing and car adverts) and given a public platform to peddle all manner of complete bollocks without a shred of evidence or David Irving levels of “interpretation” to fit their own romanticisms.
Their antics meant if there was anything of real intrinsic historical value worth investigating (esp. anything requiring a professional archeological dig), anyone attempting to investigate could kiss goodbye to central funding if it already had a reputation as being “Margaret Murray in the Fortean Times” material.
Conspiracy theories and “alternative” interpretations may be fun for their proponents in much the same way idle gossip makes the humdrum of the school day or work day more interesting, but their fans don’t care less about the very real damage they do – fine examples of “with friends like these, who needs enemies!”
Andy Ellis – entirely agree.
At least they haven’t got on to The Privy Council or Chemtrails today (yet).
James Che. says:
22 May, 2022 at 3:18 pm
Is anyone Watching Scottish Prism?
Yeah, I watched it. Another good one I thought. It’s a bit of a time warp because the hour just shoots by.
What to say???
Sturgeon has neither the ability or the inclination to delivery Independence, How did she become FM , If you look at her record , apart from getting a few highers and then a degree or two, She has never been successful in anything in the past 30 years!!
Well do tell ?
There is a phrase I’ve forgotten, But it means someone who gets promoted to failure,
How the hell did she manage to fool the SNP?
Unfortunately she, even if she could apply herself, has a snowball change on succeeding, even if she wanted to,
And still there are the believers
I noted the suggestion of giving her Money ,
My suggestion is GTF with that idea
Are we really, after all we’ve seen in recent years (esp to Alex Salmond) still tolerating use of the term ‘conspiracy theory’ to shut down discussion?
If we take our independence seriously then we have to discuss it seriously. That can’t happen when we have a constant stream of fact-free bluster masquerading as informed opinion.
Q: Was Alex Salmond the target of a conspiracy, or not?
Ian Brotherhood@ 5.17pm.
Alex Salmond was 100% fitted up to try and get him off the scene, because they fear him, again because he wants independence for Scotland.
We know who uses the “conspiracy theories BS and for what reasons.
“The small minority who punt outlandish fringe beliefs and conspiracy theories”
Agent Ellis.
Go on I’ll bite just this one time, what conspiracy theories?
Being careful not to drop the good Rev in it, Tw!tter has a very interesting thread trending in Politics concerning a certain event at a certain hotel.
@ Ian Brotherhood 5.13 pm
The fact that there was an apparently criminal conspiracy to frame Alex Salmond is not a license for you and other fringe nutters to claim that your hobby horse issues, whether covidiocy, blood and soil nativism, shilling for Vald Putin, climate change denial, opposing re-wilding (twhich is one of the new ones according to Jame Che), or insisting that that Bill Gates/George Soros/space lizards/Illuminati are in charge of DAVOS/WEF/NATO/EU.
Most reasonable people are quite capable of discerning the difference between extremist fringe nutterdom and real life. Thus nobody sane buys the narrative that Vlad the Impaler is just misunderstood and the Ukrainians had it coming because they’re a bunch of nazis and there’s no difference between authoritarian regimes like Russia and China and western liberal democracies. “Ordinary” people look at posters in here unselfconsciously describing the USA as the Great Satan, and saying the Ukrainians had it coming, and/or fluffing Kremlin agitprop and saying it’s more accurate than all the other reports coming out of Ukraine, with derision.
Similarly, nobody but a small minority buys the blood and soil bullshit. That prospectus hasn’t changed since Rev Stu comprehensively fisked it months ago, yet still the nativists loyal return to their discredited and deeply regressive narrative like dogs to their own vomit. Same goes for climate change deniers, covidiots etc., etc.
Nobody is trying to silence you, or say you’re not entitled to your woo-woo views. In fact, it’s better that they’re out in the open so we can point and laugh at you all more easily. The worrying thing would be if you were all underground and your idiocy was eating away at the foundations of the movement unseen.
As Rev Stu observed vis-a-vis nativism and franchise change, stop greeting about being silenced: you’re not on the same side as many of us if you support a prospectis for independence that involves disenfranchising 20% of Scots residents. Similarly, if you’re a Putinista like “Republic of Scotland” I don’t regard someone as morally vacuous who lacks a moral compass as being on the same side as me, even if he shares the ultimate goal of Scottish independence.
It’s not rocket science, except for some strange reason to individuals like you.
“/space lizards/Illuminati ”
Agent Ellis.
Typical attempt to poison the well with the nonsense above, nobody mentioned that only you.
The reason that some of us prefer not to address Ellis directly is that he has proven himself incapable of civilised discussion.
@David Ritchie 4.23 pm
BoJo will never agree to #indyref2, and neither will a future Labour administration. Unless forced to do so by a successful legal challenge from the Scottish government, they will stick to their interpretation of the devolutionary settlement which is that referendums – or at least one concerning independence – is beyond the competence of Holyrood.
Thus, since the current SNP doesn’t have the balls to undertake the legal challenge (which it could have done at any point in the last 8 years), it’s left with the alternatives of calling a “wildcat” non-S30 Order sanctioned referendum. Sturgeon has already ruled that out.
There is no current legal advice, and constitutional lawyers differ on whether a S30 Order is actually required. The discussions were had as far back as 2012 prior to #indyref1. The smart money is sadly on a legal case finding against a Scottish Government claim that it can hold a referendum without Westminster’s “permission”, however much we may consider it morally unjustifiable where Holyrood has a clear electoral mandate.
In the end, that’s why plebiscitary elections have to be put front and centre in future. A majority gained in a General Election by pro-independence parties specifically stating that 50% + 1 votes for pro-indy parties is a mandate is enough. The issue is convincing the SNP to get in line: Sturgeon and her devolusionist mates certainly won’t sign up for that: they’re still wedded to the “Gold Standard” S30 sanctioned indyref route.
What is uncanny is that the existing dumb membership of the senile nonce party are NOT the only ones voting for her ,for the snp to remain in office the wider public have to vote for the nonce party as well , surely people are not so stupid that they can look at the last 8 years and think that is what success looks like , that is good governance , her FAILURES are obvious for everyone to see ,so the ONLY explanation can be that they are voting for the LEAST WORSE OPTION and THAT is a bigger threat to independence, because if she continues with the damage she is doing and for whatever reason a referendum comes along people would take one look at the damage she has done and take that as an exemplar of independence and do an Andy Ellis , work ACTIVELY AGAINST INDEPENDENCE
@Putin’s Poodle 5.53 pm
” “/space lizards/Illuminati ” ……Typical attempt to poison the well with the nonsense above, nobody mentioned that only you.”
These things exist on a continuum though. Your uncritical regurgitation of Kremlin agitprop is little different in the views of sensible folk to those touting anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories, climate change denial or blood and soil nativism.
What you all have in common, even if you don’t all intersect on every issue, is a wrong headed belief that such fringe views help the independence cause, or that they are given any crecit by more than a vanishingly small number within the movement. You’re on record as saying the Ukrainians had it coming FFS! you’ve never rowed back from it. You and anyone who shares such views is a stain on the independence movement.
Muscleguy,
🙂
@Ian Bunchedpanties 5.56 pm
“The reason that some of us prefer not to address Ellis directly is that he has proven himself incapable of civilised discussion.”
Or in your case much more likely that you lack the wit to defend your woo-woo propositions…? Yup…that’d be it.
I suppose we should just be grateful you’re not Ruby engaged in her usual “cunt-calling” in lieu of an actual point?
@Derick fae yell 5.03 pm
“At least they haven’t got on to The Privy Council or Chemtrails today (yet).”
Give them time, bud, give them time…..! James Che’s aversion to re-wilding was a new one on me, but definitely one to add to the list. It’s amazing what issues you can twist in to being part of the great conspiracy to deprive “indigenous native Scots” of their birthright if you squint hard enough and long enough.
It’s all the fault of others “doing things to us”: apparently we have no agency, we’ve been duped/robbed/conspired against and are just too weak or stupid to figure that the way out of the current burach is to persuade 50% + 1 of Scottish coters to put an “X” in a box with a pencil.
If all you have is a hammer, every issue is a nail I suppose…..?
Twathater @6.00pm
Absolutely right. Least worst choice is what is happening in Scottish elections.
Something has happened to compel Sturgeon to pull the trigger (again). Possibly backing from Westminster for her next job (following the interview in America) if she goes for a referendum now when Boris grants it, in the belief that it is doomed to failure. She will say ‘I tried, and did what you wanted’, and disappears into the sunset, leaving Scotland high and dry.
Might be time to take Stu’s bet. So sad.
“You’re on record as saying the Ukrainians had it coming FFS!”
Agent Ellis.
If I recall correctly I said they made themselves a legitimate target, and I stand by that comment. They allowed the Greta Satan (US) to carry out a coup in 2014 and install a puppet and there’s been US puppets in charge of the undemocratic regime ever since.
The Azov Nazi’s have been killing Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Donbas, shelling schools, hospitals and residential areas since the coup, without a peep from the West. The Nazi’s were preparing a huge invasion force into the Donbas but Putin’s SMO countered that saving many lives.
Zelensky a Great Satan puppet spoke of placing nukes in his country, effectively rolling them up to the border with Russia.
“Your uncritical regurgitation of Kremlin agitprop”
Unlike the Wests truthful version eh, that you are regurgitating in here, the latest is that Russia has caused a famine by keeping all the Ukrainian grain, when the truth is that there’s 71 ships from 17 countries stuck in the ports in Ukraine and they can’t leave, one reason being that the AFU has mined the waterways and that some of the mines are so old they’ve slipped their moorings, you won’t read that in the Western news rags.
There is a distinct division between 5 or 6 people on here and the rest of the Scottish independence grass roots whom are not politically tied to a political party or to contractual agreements with governance.
The grass roots seem to be the ones coming up with alternative ideas, plan B or C’s wether they have any impact or not in the future is neither here nor there at this moment in time,
They are simply suggestions and ideas for alternatives. All focused on one aim.
We all Throw in news items into the mix, that we have heard from around the world.
If they turn out to be correct later on at least we can be prepared.
A bit like hunter bidens laptop deniel by MSM that turned out to be not such a conspiracy theory after all.
Although it was put across as russia collusion conspiracy at the time.
The grass roots keep each other informed, we are quite capable to wait, listen and see what develops,
As to conspiracy.
Do you mean like the Good old McCrones report.
Imagine if the Scots had mentioned it before it became public.
I suppose we would all have been branded conspiracy theorist before the truth came out.
Twathater @6pm.
What I find remarkable, is that Sturgeon is actively undermining women’s rights in Scotland, yet there must still be many women voting for the party when they returned so many councillors.
I can’t understand (Britnats aside) why indy minded women didn’t vote for the Alba party in huge numbers, Alba spoke frequently on protecting women and girls rights, is that the majority of them were/are unaware of the threat to their rights, and as well all know the Britnat/foreign media did its best to blacken Alex Salmond’s name and turn voters away from Alba.
The same vile character assassination was carried out by the Britnat/foreign media on Jeremy Corbyn.
RepublicofScotland.
I think claus swabb said the trudeau an pal- lenski were his children,
RepulicofScotland.
Twathater
Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything
stonefree says:
22 May, 2022 at 5:06 pm
‘There is a phrase I’ve forgotten, But it means someone who gets promoted to failure’
It’s The Peter Principle
‘In a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence’
James Che. 6.52pm.
James.
Listen to a US senator speak on the WEF, Ukraine etc, its real eye opener, this guy is a seasoned war veteran who loves his country.
Scroll to 3.13, its really remarkable how candid this senator is.
https://odysee.com/Harley—Senator-Black:57a7be8e17c0dd0dcbf854dab8a60aa98302de69
@Republic of Scotland 6:40
“The Ukrainians were planning a huge invasion force into the Donbas”
Naw, they werena.
So the Ukrainians are now responsible for the food shortages that are going to raise our prices and starve millions across the Middle East and Africa?
Naw, they’re naw.
“The truth is …”
We can all only hope that you one day wangle an introduction to the truth, Repo. But right now, post after post after post, you and the truth are strangers.
@Republic 7:16
“seasoned war veteran who loves his country”
Given his country is the Great Satan, that would make him a demon then? Or an imp? Could he be an incubus?
FFS Repo, sometimes you are beyond even parody.
The only way that Sturgeon will allow a referendum to go ahead is if she was promised a job at her recent American jaunt.
@Putin’s Poodle 6.40 pm
Oh, we know you’re an unrepentant Putinista. The phrase you used was “had it coming”. I remember it well. That kind of lack of empathy with people being killed tends to stay with folk. The evidence will still be there despite your attempts to back pedal now. Unlike you the ordinary alert readers in here, those who aren’t either paid operatives of the Kremlin or just vicious ideological fellow travellers, are capable of feeling empathy for all those killed in the conflict in Donbas too – those on both sides. As we’ve seen over many months you’re monomaniacally focused only on the sins of one side.
You either deny there were Ukrainian casualties of the Russian nationalists in the Donbas conflict before Putin’s war, or simply don’t care. You inflate the widely acknowledged issues and problems there were with the relatively insignificant far right neo nazi movement in the Ukraine, while ignoring or flatly denying the much greater problem Russia has with far right nationalism and anti-semitism, It’s classic deflection.
Nobody remotely informed about the situation buys the ridiculous assertions about Ukraine being captured by neo nazis. They treat it with the same derision they do people unselfconsciously referring to the USA as the Great Satan. It makes you and any of those fluffing for your fringe narrative in here sound like demented far left Tooting Popular Front stuff. It’s not because they’re dupes, or because they uncritically accept MSM narratives, it’s because unlike you and your mates they have a sense of perspective and can hold two thoughts in their heads at the same time, not just one manichean and wrong headed belief.
It must hurt to be on the wrong side of history, and even more to realise you’re in such a minority within the movement. Perhaps that’s why you’re so bitter?
Just read that Boris had a secret meeting with Sue Gray.
Now that it’s leaked we are assured Boris only enquired if photos of the parties would be included, however she is free to use them if she wants to he says.
They did not discuss the detail of the report?
What the hell did they have a meeting for or about if not the detail and an offer of rewards
for using a big bottle of Tipex on it.
I dunno. The timing seems perfect for the following referendum question:
Do you think that Scotland should be an independent country where a man can self identify as a women whenever she feels like it?
@Putin’s Poodle 7.16 pm
“Scroll to 3.13, its really remarkable how candid this senator is.”
You’ve fluffed this guy before: he’s a 2 bit member of the Virginia State senate who retired in 2019, not a national senator. He’s a far right nut job who opposed Medicaid expansion. Pro Assad too. Very much on the nutter fringe of US politics, so I can see why you’d have such fellow feeling.
Agent Ellis @7.55pm.
There are plenty folk who are pro-Assad, and there’s plenty of folk who are not pro-Biden or Johnson or Macron or Trudeau or Scholz.
We all know who the mass murderers are in the names above, and its not Assad.
Black said this.
“In April 2014, Black sent an official letter to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad,[38] thanking “the Syrian Arab Army for its heroic rescue of Christians in the Qalamoun Mountain Range”,[38] praising Assad for “treating with respect all Christians and the small community of Jews in Damascus,” and stating it was obvious that the rebel side of the war was largely being fought by “vicious war criminals linked to Al Qaeda””
Syria isn’t regime changing under the guise of bringing democracy to the people, Syria isn’t invading Middle Eastern countries or installing puppet presidents in South and Central America and Africa.
Assad is an angel by those standards, you are a champion of Western hegemony and oppression.
“It must hurt to be on the wrong side of history”
Agent Ellis.
I bet you were blushing whilst typing the above, I know if I were on your team I would, but then again its your remit to push this agenda. You see Ellis I know what you are.
Anyway, there will be more shortages in the West, most of them will be self inflicted via the 6,700 sanctions applied against Russia, the West is led by donkeys who only care about enriching themselves, the Great Satan’s war on Russia and eventually China via Taiwan will see poverty get worse as ordinary people struggle more and more to make ends meet, to heat their homes and feed their children.
Do you think Johnson, or Sunak, or Biden or Scholz or Sturgeon will have to worry about making ends meet. The Great Satan’s war on Russia via Ukraine will be very costly to European and American citizens for years to come, and WE will pick up the bill.
@Putin’s Poodle 8.26 pm
Yeah, yeah….Bashar, Vlad, Aleksandr, Kim Jeong…. just a great bunch of lads, eh?
You’re hilarious really. It’s not often you see such delusional behaviour given voice so publicly. Small wonder you cleave to your anonymity. I’d love to see you actually confronted with some Ukrainians to tell them why they had it coming.
@Putin’s Poodle 8.36 pm
“You see Ellis I know what you are.”
The voice of reason perhaps? You’d probably find it hard to recognise from your MO, but alert readers and most ordinary folk in the movement can spot a moon howling charlatan like you a mile off.
Unlike you of course, folk know who I am because I’m not a snivelling anonymous online coward who is so ashamed of his views that he’s scared to own them publicly.
We don’t know who you are, but we can take a good guess tovarich.
Agent Ellis.
Not even including Perfidious Albion or France or Germany, the Great Satan has killed and injured/maimed millions of people around the globe to further it goals of greed and power.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/04/25/how-many-millions-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars-part-3-libya-syria-somalia-and-yemen/
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/22/how-many-millions-of-people-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars-part-one-iraq/
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/04/12/killing-civilians-from-mosul-to-raqqa-to-mariupol/
How many has Assad regime changed or installed puppet leaders, no next to this lot Assad is just small fry when it comes to murdering people.
As for Nato people are still dying from the after effects of Nato using depleted uranium shells and you call Assad a monster its you who is pushing the monsters agenda.
Back O/T if we can wrest the movement from the hands of the moon howling fraternity…
Since it’s obvious we aren’t getting #indyref2 on the Sturgeonistas watch what do those not on the nutter fringe think the next steps should be, whether for Alba or just the movement in general.*
(*Obvs you might have to scroll past some guff about “we wuz robbed”, “the furriners dun it and are swamping us”, “it’s all a great conspiracy and the WEF’s fault” or James’ latest hot take about why the Treaty of Westphalia and the Schleswig Holstein question are relevant…but you get the picture.)
I’d love to see you actually confronted with some Ukrainians to tell them why they had it coming.
which will be easily done as all wealthy enough anyones of conscription age has fucked right off as quickly as they can.
Comedian Z was elected on a let’s get along with russia manifesto.
So we know that most ukranians did not want this mess.
Comedian Z looked deep into his wallet,and the rifle barrels around him, and took a different position.
Ffs Ellis, you should start your own blog for non-nutters and give us nutters a rest.
Andy Ellis says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:14 pm
Back O/T if we can wrest the movement from the hands of the moon howling fraternity…
Who is this ‘we’?
– the voices in his head.
Ellis posts have degenerated into structureless permutations of stock phrases. Best ignored.
Breastplate says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:42 pm
Ffs Ellis, you should start your own blog for non-nutters and give us nutters a rest
Here he can do his worst, and as it looks like he’s paid by the word, he has to reason: do I want to be another jaggy?
1 whole hour later:
paul says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:44 pm
Andy Ellis says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:14 pm
Back O/T if we can wrest the movement from the hands of the moon howling fraternity…
Who is this ‘we’?
Who is this ‘we’?
and do ‘they’ have a fully developed moon howler inclusive education program?
Or are your ‘we’ just a figment of your employer’s rather fetid fears?
I feel sorry fir them working at the National.
They must be rosy red with embarrassment by now.
Still they have got to keep ploughing on, just hoping their readership forgets why they buy that paper.
They’ll be counting the days till they can go into receivership.
@James Che
Only way to ever gain our independence is to take it.
Close Holyrood that’s tied up in knots under The Scotland Act.
Don’t waste time on any legal challenge that would tie it up for decades & would be found in yoons favour anyway.
Reconvene the REAL Scottish parliament.
Get finger out of arse & start infrastructure – starting with ports.
Bury the notion we not only need the English *permission* but 300 other countries too oh & lest we forget the EU with this internationally recognised myth! we’ll be asking the Aliens too at this rate! We’re already recognised. We have resources to sell. Countries who want it will buy. The end.
Send nothing & no on to Westminster on behalf of Scotland. It only gives that place legitimacy.
Scotland has a vote. Day one of next election found in favour is the day our independence is declared – not asked for.
@James Che re conspiracy.
Dang it! If only us stupid Scots knew it only takes 50% + 1 & no one ever, ever, ever would rig it!
We’re so silly!
Oh, wait…
Macrone
70% rule & count the dead too!
Give us some of your sea containing oil & we’ll give you a glorified county council in return.
Let’s give them a pretendy indyref with tens of THOUSANDS registering to vote only 2 weeks prior to indyref. Englands other capital, Edinburgh – registering a mighty 30 thousand only 10 days out from a two year campaign? Suss? No. It’s just our imagination! It must be! WM are straight up kinda guys aren’t they?!
Naw, it’s not rigged. No Siree! It’s us dumb Scots with our stupid ideas!
England wants us to thrive too & not have us a baron, asset stripped wasteland. No Siree! That’s why they kindly take it all away from us. To save us the burden of oil & land & huge estates.
Andy is Gaslighting and a typical Russiaphobe. Fallen hook line & sinker into the pail marked Yoon MSM shite.
Source for the highly suspish tens of thousands registering to vote only 10 days out from indyref.
It’s the BBC si it must be true!
PS it was outsiders who lost us the vote. A university did a full report of the stats on indy vote. EU citizens & rUK residents lost us the YES vote. If required I’ll link the source to that too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29024311
@ Geri 2.02 am yir wasting yir time wae that one Geri , andy has stated publicly and categorically that we wuzn’t robbed and if anybody DARES tae meddle wi the franchise he will ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST INDEPENDENCE because his wife ,daughter and now inlaws have moved up from england to Scotland and they DESERVE a vote , he says the university report is a lot of PISH
Andy also asserts because he knows what EVERYONE is thinking that outsiders didn’t lose us independence it is our own fault it is because we Scots are too stupid and cowardly
BTW Andy only moved up to Scotland again after 25 years in surrey and didn’t even vote in indyref 1 BUT he knows where EVERYBODY is going wrang
Andy has his own blog that naebody visits so he likes to come on WOS to bait the patriots and natives
https://archive.ph/pIZtf
I hate Boris Johnson, but jeezo, even I find this insufferably boring.
The office of UK Prime Minister can get away with war crimes, murderous foreign policy, and borderline murderous domestic policy, but be a crass, partying piss head, and we never hear the end of it.
“Seeking grace from a graceless face”, is the expression that comes to mind.
Stop the incessant fucking whining and actually DO something.
Blackford’s one day career peaked when the SNP stood up, walked out of Westminster and for a few hours gave Scotland hope, then it ended abruptly when he slithered back in to whine forevermore with negligible potency.
Between him and Witless Wishart, when the Tories get to their feet and walk out, I honestly cannot blame them. All they hear is Charlie Brown’s teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
Next time the SNP find the courage to get to their feet and walk out, (I know, fat chance), Scotland will owe the Tories a favour if they lock the doors behind them.
Twathater says:
23 May, 2022 at 2:54 am
BTW Andy only moved up to Scotland again after 25 years in surrey and didn’t even vote in indyref 1 BUT he knows where EVERYBODY is going wrang…
Really? I never knew that.
I suppose that’s the downside of scrolling past without reading.
(Correction. There is no downside.)
Wings’ battle against Scottish ignorance is beautiful!
Q . If a tree falls in the forest , and lands on A&E’s napper ….
Would anybody care ?
A. No . Well , maybe 2 or – at a maximum – 3 .
Everyone else would consider it his own fault for being in a forest at night with his beagle Zelly looking for signs of intrusion by Russian invaders and their Blood n Soil partisan enablers .
” Next time the SNP find the courage to get to their feet and walk out, (I know, fat chance), Scotland will owe the Tories a favour if they lock the doors behind them. ” LOL !
In that unlikely event Breeks they would all quickly discover their inner Black Rod and start battering the door clamouring to be let back in .
They will simply REFUSE to dragged away from their comfy lifestyles and ripening pension pots against the express will of ….eh ….. themselves
@Repo 8:36
“Great Satan’s eventual war on China via Taiwan”
Careful, Repo, your MO is exposed.
Basically, any nation or national grouping that desires self-determination is nought but a tool of the USA.
So if Scotland ever becomes free, you will have no choice but to demand our destruction.
I really think your life would be so much simpler if you could just accept that some nations want freedom, democracy and self-determination, but the lunatic strand is now so woven into your identity that you just can’t let it go.
That’s your karma I guess.
Geri 12:53 am
Which do you see yourself doing?
Reconvening the real Scottish parliament?
Or starting on the ports infrastructure?
Or is it actually the case that you, like everybody else on here, are actually going to sit on your lady arse until somebody else does something?
Not taking a pop, Geri. Just pointing out that in the real world, rocking up to a nice bit of coastline with a spade won’t achieve much, other than an arrest for environmental damage. And maybes something else with “mental” in it.
It’s only 2 weeks since the last elections, nobody claims they were rigged, and the vast majority of Scots indicated acceptance of the status quo.
Before somebody accuses me of negativity, how you will change things is plan sensibly and sanely, organise, communicate and work towards that plan. It will take years. And it will take the balls to accept that if the current plan isn’t working, a better plan is needed.
John Main,
I think the problem is not that we need a better plan but that we need our representatives to implement it. Unfortunately for us, they are simply not up for the job.
The wider problem regarding this is that we have what seems to be a rather large number of pro independence supporters and voters who believe that we do indeed have the right people in the job.
We have people like Paul Kavanagh convincing people that everything was on track and that Boris Johnson as PM would be a catalyst for a tsunami of independence support and would quickly be embarrassed into signing off a Section 30 for Nicola Sturgeon.
That he would have no choice other than to deliver us a “gold standard” independence referendum.
That he would have no choice but to cooperate with us at every turn for fear of National and international chastisement.
I’ve no idea if this is still his position but he has done enough to convince the gullible to follow the SNP up a dead end street.
With the help of others, I should have added.
Andy Ellis says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:14 pm
Back O/T if we can wrest the movement from the hands of the moon howling fraternity…
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:41 pm Ellis is a big jobby
Breastplate says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:42 pm Ellis is a big jobby
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:44 pm Ellis is a big jobby
Confused says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:16 pm Ellis is a big jobby.
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:36 pm Ellis is a big jobby
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:52 pm Ellis is a big jobby.
At least he’s not getting under your skins or anything …
Nicky’s wee starting pistol will still be firing when a’ the seas gang dry and the rocks melt wi’ the sun.
This utter fraud has done a great job of eviscerating the movement, though, as anyone seeing the pitiful numbers at the recent AUOB march in Glasgow will know.
Yet the cultists still believe in her and Scotland continues to suffer the dreadful consequences.
Mark Boyle,
I’m sorry if I’ve upset you by not taking your mate very seriously but I am allowed to have a different opinion.
See?, …it’s already beginning.
https://archive.ph/HHsw1
American shit stirring, “contradictions to long standing policy” and threats to China, communicated to you by the UK State propagandists without an ounce of critical analysis.
“They [China]]are already flirting with danger right now by flying so close and all the manoeuvres that they are undertaking,” says Biden.
Your reminder from 9 months ago of the Royal Navy bombastically “sailing close and manoeuvring” through Chinese territorial waters…
https://archive.ph/oP2Ix
Taiwan is over 6,000 miles from the UK, and 100 miles from mainland China.
This shit is why it DOESN’T feel good to be British, and why Scotland requires sovereign Independent Government.
Breeks re Whiney Blackford
It was on the advice of Salmond to walk out. He even had to give the sniveling feckwit chapter & verse of the parliamentary rule to envoke. If you watch again you can even see Grady prod him *Do it, do it now’ while he hesitated like a rabbit caught in headlights to his big grand announcement.
No backbone. No Spine. We’ve sent a bunch of feckwits to WM who’ve achieved feck all but feather their nests & take a seat at the trough. Barstewards! I’ll never vote for them again. Whether it’s 56 or 40 + makes no difference. It’s an English parliament.
Regards someone’s comment on SNP taking back control of Scotland. They’ve been in power 15 years. I’d have imagined a party whose sole aim is for Indy, to start the ball rolling & start implementing the infrastructure needed, slowly & gradually if needed, in preparation from the glorious day we’re out!
But Naw, it appears everyone wants to follow the rules. FFS!
Aye, a bullying neighbour who is asset stripping an abundance of natural resources while controlling it’s population at the same time is suddenly going to say, ok Jocks, have your independence, I wish you well!
They’re going to be nice about it while they’ve just shot their cash cow dead!
Never gonna happen!
Re, Scots being stupid, aye – this current cabal is. They won’t move on indy until they have cast iron gaurantees it will be a YES vote but not only do we need England’s permission, oh no- we need the whole wide world to agree to!
Also never going to happen!
Independence is always taken against the will of the coloniser.
It’s almost invariably a confrontational, disruptive and sometimes violent process.
Very few new or reaffirmed nations achieved independence without some blood spilt on the streets.
Many had to endure months or years of hard guerrilla against an oppressor.
Most have been successful.
This is what centuries of history taught us.
We need a leader ready to ask for our blood, sweat and tears, and worthy of them.
Nicola Sturgeon and her cohort of empty vessels definitely are not: they’ve mangled a campaigning machine into a Saint Nicola’s Party cult.
They will go to hell for this.
Beauty about the conspiracy theory theory is that you dont need much of a referendum, never mind S30 agreement to one, to break free – because what would be the point in either if the cheating opposition are, indeed, cheating..
delighted to see you are paying such close attention, however I did not say a single word you attributed to me.
Mark Boyle says:
23 May, 2022 at 10:10 am
Andy Ellis says:
22 May, 2022 at 10:14 pm
Back O/T if we can wrest the movement from the hands of the moon howling fraternity…
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:41 pm Ellis is a big jobby
Breastplate says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:42 pm Ellis is a big jobby
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 10:44 pm Ellis is a big jobby
Confused says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:16 pm Ellis is a big jobby.
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:36 pm Ellis is a big jobby
paul says: 22 May, 2022 at 11:52 pm Ellis is a big jobby.
At least he’s not getting under your skins or anything …
The video of AS delivering ALBA’s post-election message a week after the result showed him looking refreshed, upbeat, and seemingly pleased that the council hurdle was out of the way. But after a 2% return and zero councillors from 111 candidates, I would have thought that instead of brushing the result aside and claiming progress there would be a pause and time for reflection on policy, strategy, the party-political broadcast, and especially, why the ALBA message is not connecting with the public. But my first reaction after seeing the results was ‘time for a reality check if ALBA is to survive’.
I can’t understand how a first-time independent candidate in my ward, with no national party machine behind her, no TV broadcast, no 5-point plan, could drop a bland A5 size leaflet, devoid of colour, through our letterbox two days before the election and then become elected, while the sitting ALBA candidate couldn’t muster 100 votes.
I can’t understand how The Rubbish Party, formed in 2017, who won a seat – with one candidate – at the first time of asking, and retained the seat two weeks ago, yet ALBA drew a blank.
I can’t understand how we (presumably) targeted our best 111 wards, yet one candidate could muster only 48 votes.
The overall figure of 2% support appears to be a slight increase on 2021, but is it really? How could so many of the 111 fail to get 100 first pref. votes when you consider that surely each candidate had banked votes from family, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, social media contacts, local ALBA members/supporters etc? Subtracting those votes from their total would suggest that few outside the ALBA bubble were persuaded to for vote us, and certainly not 2%. But why?
In July 2021, a news item announced ALBA’s 6,000th member, but recent figures suggest there has been little movement since. As numerous comments here have touched on, it is just not happening for ALBA, and as has previously been said on Wings, I too am bewildered by the Scottish psyche.
If my exasperation is perceived as an attack on ALBA, or AS, then I have written poorly. Many, perhaps most of us, would have done some things differently within ALBA, but overall, they didn’t do anything to put voters off, there were many good public meetings, the message was positive, and the party is ethically, morally, and authentically way ahead of anything else on offer at the ballot box.
It’s been said frequently that we need a leader – or leaders – but the problem is that there is nobody around that compares to AS.
It’s also been said frequently that we need the YES movement to unite and reignite that passion again, but it is in limbo: even here we don’t/won’t report or discuss last week’s march or yesterday’s first ALBA public meeting post-election. Tinto Chiel @ 10.16am today is the only reference I’ve seen to the AUOB march on 14 May.
At some point the message WILL get out into the streets, towns, schemes, because the dire policies of this administration, the corruption, the deceit, and the incompetence, will come home to roost. We also know we are heading for the most chilling attack on the living standards of low earners since rationing.
It may be at that point, perhaps around Christmas, as tens of thousands freeze and can’t pay crippling energy bills, the outpouring of anger that will ensue may result in widespread unrest and demands for change.
But, sadly, I don’t see a surge in support for ALBA: if the public rightly conclude that all elected politicians share the blame, it is more likely that they will unite behind a non-party movement, communicate and organise via social media, and demands for change – independence? – will become irresistible.
@twathater
Aye, makes perfect sense! We used to follow each other on Twitter until he blocked me LOL!
He has a bit of the Amber Turd about him! Gaslighting everyone is nuts except them! They’re the only sane one in the room despite a mountain of facts..aye, okey-dokey!
Scots indyref2 needs voting rules.
Resident in Scotland for 10years+
No second & holiday home vote.
No electoral commission from the very country we wish to leave.
No count conducted by the very country we wish to leave.
No nursing home votes unless the patient/resident is of sound mind.
Postal/ hospital votes conducted via a house visit.
There shouldn’t be a problem with any of those? Other countries do it, Inc England who are lining up far worse!
Staring pistols are usually loaded with blanks.
I look forward to michael russell unveiling the SNP branded peashooter (the secret part 12 of the revolution) out of the horse box, if he can remember where he fly tipped it.
There has been a number of suggestions as to the cause of the current cost of living crisis. I was wondering if the UK governments policy of ‘printing’ electronic money via Quantitative easing may also be causing this.
It looks they are starting to reverse this via the recent interest rate rises in a process called Quantitative tightening. I have found a few links about it here:
https://think.ing.com/articles/our-guide-to-the-bank-of-englands-quantitative-tightening/
https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2022/02/04/what-will-be-the-consequence-of-quantitative-tightening/?page=3
From what I can gather, there is little known about what effects Quantitative tightening will have on the cost of living crisis but I doubt very much it will help.
I thought I’d post this as it is something to look out for. However, if it does and it adds to the current economic problems, I doubt very much that it will have an increase for support for independence as mentioned by Breastplate earlier.
I’m actually beginning to wonder if this is all about BRICS.
For those that don’t know, BRICS is the trading bloc between Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.
Iran and Venezuela are on board too I think. In fact, anybody with an axe to grind against “The West” seems granted a fast track entry. Argentina, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Mexico and Turkey have expressed strong interest in full membership, while Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Syria and Pakistan have also expressed interest.
Think about it. It has a footprint on every Continent, well nearly…
BRICS countries have been planning a sub-marine fibre optic cable communications system to carry telecommunications between the BRICS countries, because they’re concerned that using US or European communication networks are compromised and not secure.
Just think about that a moment. If that’s they way they feel about communications, what do suppose their attitude towards the $ or Euro is going to be?
When you have to ask to be free people.
When you have to beg to be released.
When you’re country is under the rule of another country
When you signed up to a treaty, but the other half broke that treaty.
When your countries resources are being asset stripped.
When another country changes your burghs and bounderies.
When another country places weapons of mass destruction on your land.
When another country counts you’re election results.
When another country inserts its service into you’re government to run it .
When another country use mass media control to bias elections.
When another country changes the Laws of you’re country.
When another country does the trade for you.
When another country takes the larger percentage of you’re taxes.
When another country decides you’re future.
When a army had to be sent to you’re borders to forcefully make you accept their treaty.
Then you are Colonised,
You have been enslaved.
You have no choices,
And the Coloniser bans your culture,
Your language and national dress.
Scotland must be one of the few remaining Colonies of the British empire.
The SNP are CAC:
Colonial Administrator Charlatans
Colin Alexander.
Administrator yes,
Manager, yes,
Leader No.
@Ebok
At the risk of coming over as a moon howler LOL!
I’d say it’s rigged.
Just like her court case was rigged.
If the yoons hate the SNPEEE they hate Salmond even more, that & the current anti Salmond cabal within at least agree on. He is a clear & present danger & must be removed at all costs, even if that includes jumped up charges resulting in a £500k payout & legal advice.
SNP remain in power because yoons aren’t daft. They’ll vote with their wallet! That’s what selfish barstewards do! That includes holding their nose at the polling booth in Mickey mouse local elections. SNPEEE can mitigate harsh Tory polices for them while they enjoy all those *free benefits* they bleat endlessly about being a waste of money.
I think SNP should stop mitigating Tory policies. They want Yoons in charge? Let them have it! All of it! Unleash full force. Let them pay prescriptions, child care, elderly care, toll charges, etc etc! Then & only then will there be change, imo.
Even if they’d no Gas & Starving – they’d still demand SNP fix it for them.
COVID soon had those doff cap wearing serfs from under their rocks bleating endlessly for SNP to fix furlough for them & how they’d to pay extortionate rates to see a dentist privately. SNPEE.. I demand you fix this immediately for meee!
They can’t, it’s reserved.
They can use their funds for independence to help – or funds from X,Y,Z!
*Rolls eyes*
It’s like Sunak doesn’t exist for these tossers! They like the idea of a Union & BoJo? Let them have a taste of it.
Geri.
In amongst all this.
There are rumblings that the British Parliament in England is considering having an separate parliament for England,
Besides breaking the treaty of the union, and running the British Parliament as if it had been a continuation of the British Parliament since before the treaty of the union,
What would its purpose be.
They already pass laws for England and Wales only,
This can be seen in housing and Tenancy issues quite easily.
Firing blanks is all Sturgeon has done since 2014, that and kissing England’s backside.
Mark Boyle says:
23 May, 2022 at 10:10 am
Something made up.
The characters he’s defending by denigrating me are nowhere to be found.
Go back through my posts and answer the questions posed.
Tell me how I am wrong.
Conspireracy theorist at it again.
First case of monkey pox in Scotland. Or something similar bill gates said.
But wait!
We have a vaccine that works.
Health Scotland are going to give SMALLPOX vaccines to patients.
Wait for it, wait ….wait,
Roll up roll up Money to made on vaccines and ppe, roll up.
Lockup your people for two years, while we party,
Get them all to clapped for the privatised busted NHS.
And leave our borders wide open again, all flights in-coming, and travel staystations and campers allowed to spread all virus’s across britian the borders of britian to continue.
Just lockup lowly people around the world, roll up, roll up we also have a bridge to sell you.
Do you not think it mighty peculiar that with so many viruses in our modern world of health and safety, plus using and trusting science first.
We have this sudden influx of virus’s
Are we under going biological warfare on the world populations.
But co not worry.
We can blame China for the first one.
And Russia for this one.
That all sorted then.
One of the btl comments on the WGD site shows a remarkable blind spot. He/She refers to ‘Groundhog Day’ in relation to current Tory and Unionist scandals. He/She has completely missed the real ‘Groundhog Day’ as laid out above by WoS.
I am crippled marching up and down the hill and deafened by the repeated firing a the starting pistol. That is real ‘Groundhog Day@ stuff.
@Geri 12.33 pm
“Aye, makes perfect sense! We used to follow each other on Twitter until he blocked me LOL!”
I’ve no recollection of you, but then I lost my bird account for the same reason Rev Stu and many other GC people did. If I blocked you doubtless you asked for it: I certainly has a zero tolerance policy with yoons, TRA extremists and latterly Sturgeonistas…..but if you were spouting nativist bullshit and conspiracy theories like the moon howling cabal in here then that would also have been more than enough. It seems to have gotten under your skin, but I can’t really see why: that’s Twatter for you. Nobody is obliged to follow anyone else, and blocking is often a useful tool.
Much like here, nobody is obliged to interact with what others post but it certainly seems I get to live rent free in the empty heads of many of the moon howlers in here. They all seem a bit triggered most of the time. It must be quite exhausting for them being frothed in to such a lather all the time.
As for your nativist prospectus, it’s all been addressed before: nobody else does ith that way, very few in the movement would support it, and it still doesn’t address Rev Stu’s objections from last year, which I will repeat here for the benefit of the “blut and boden” mob. Doubtless you’ll deflect and fail to address the issues raised just like all the rest.
Like him I wouldn’t regard anyone pushing the nativist agenda as being on the same side as the mainstream independence movement.
Stu Campbells twitter thread 13/07/21:
“If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side. If you want their votes, fucking well persuade them. If you can’t, your case is shit.
And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.
We debated this in 2011 and we came to the right decision. Nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view. You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they’ll vote the wrong way.
’As well as being morally wrong, it’s almost certainly self-defeating. The Scotland you’d be trying to sell people under that franchise is a very different place to the one we were advocating in 2014, and very much for the worse.
That, of course, is true in many ways. If we got a referendum tomorrow I don’t in all honesty know if I could bring myself to campaign in it, because it’d be a *de facto* campaign for Nicola Sturgeon’s vision of a hellish, intolerant, incompetent and corrupt Scotland.
But that’s not a decision I need to lose sleep over, because we’re not getting a referendum tomorrow, or next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.
But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.”
“BTW Andy only moved up to Scotland again after 25 years in surrey and didn’t even vote in indyref 1 BUT he knows where EVERYBODY is going wrang…”
Is that so, Surrey has a long history of military barracks including the infamous Deepcut.
https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/nostalgia/lost-barracks-surrey-three-former-21016442
Everything Wings says is absolutely true. However, all of the SNP’s leadership bumph is utterly dependent on all of us believing this s***e – again! You really have to believe that Nicola Sturgeon and her wokerati warriors actually want independence. Since they very evidently do not, there can be no disappointment – again! Too many ‘careers’ depend on the wagon rolling along – basically, forever.
@triggered 2.54 am
1) “@ Geri 2.02 am yir wasting yir time wae that one Geri , andy has stated publicly and categorically that we wuzn’t robbed and if anybody DARES tae meddle wi the franchise he will ACTIVELY WORK AGAINST INDEPENDENCE because his wife ,daughter and now inlaws have moved up from england to Scotland and they DESERVE a vote , he says the university report is a lot of PISH”
I stated I’d campaign against any attempts to change the franchise to align with the regressive blood and soil nativism of the fringe nutters in here. That’s not the same as saying I’v campaign against independence. Your intellectual dishonesty is showing again. People who live here and contribute deserve a say. It’s not rocket science. Hardly any other self determination referendums impose residence criteria, and when they do it’s invariably around 24 months. You are – like all the other fringe nutters – still avoiding Stu Campbell’s fisking of the regressive nativist position from last year. Either you lack the wit to do so, or you know your argument is crap because only a small minority agree with your QAnon/Trumpist BS.
2) “Andy also asserts because he knows what EVERYONE is thinking that outsiders didn’t lose us independence it is our own fault it is because we Scots are too stupid and cowardly”
It’s simple arithmetic. >80% of the electorate are Scots born. Indigenous. Natives. Yet the movement can’t cobble together 50% +1 from that and the “New Scots” who support independence. Blaming others for our own lack of cojones is just a cop out. Doing it while wrapping yourself in the regressive banner of ethnic nationalism is a betrayal of the civic nationalist movement. I’d say you should all be ashamed of yourselves, but you patently have no shame, or indeed moral compasses.
3) “BTW Andy only moved up to Scotland again after 25 years in surrey and didn’t even vote in indyref 1 BUT he knows where EVERYBODY is going wrang
Andy has his own blog that naebody visits so he likes to come on WOS to bait the patriots and natives”
So what? I spend half my life here and half in England. Big whoop. I didn’t get a vote because I didn’t live here then, which is fair enough. I never believed Scots in the diaspora should get a vote and still don’t. I believe you’re wrong, yes. I also believe – and it’s a racing certainty I’m right – that you and the nativists are in a pretty small minority. Shrieking about it won’t change the facts. You can assert the opposite is true all you like, but there’s no evidence for any desire within the movement to change the franchise in any significant way.
You seem obsessed with the fact I have a redundant wordpress site that I never really kept up. Each time you mention it, people go and look. I’d forgotten about it altogether until you kept repeatedly signposting to it in here. You’re really a bit odd. I’m not baiting anyone, and certainly wouldn’t accept you and others in here claiming to be patriots. Regressive blood and soil nativists, yes. Guilty as charged. This is like shooting fish in a barrel or playing whack a mole: it can be fun and quite diverting. It’s always good to put regressive conspiracy theorists in their place.
How the gutless and spineless treacherous b*stards in the SNP allowed England to undermine our sovereignty.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/21/take-a-few-minutes-to-watch-this-the-welsh-warn-scotland-what-england-are-up-to/
@ Tinto chiel 10.16am and Ebok , TBQH I was gutted NOT to attend the AUOB marches , my wife and I attended quite a few and enjoyed the camaraderie and joy of marching with people AGAINST the union and who all shared the vision and wanted independence , my daughter even came up from london to take part especially , as she also believed in Scotland’s indy
BUT again this is another thing that the scum snp and sturgeon have robbed us of and SOURED , there are snp troughers giving speeches (lies) and encouraging the faithful to BELIEVE when it is PLAINLY OBVIOUS they are taking the piss and only saying what needs to be said to stay at the trough
Then you have the woke tartan taliban with their banners and posters supporting and pushing the GRA , WTF has that to do with indy and that will certainly encourage the females to participate, so reluctantly we feel we cannot take part in the marches because they are being USED FALSELY to suggest that sturgeon and her arsewipes are doing a good job when in reality we all know the opposite is true
All Under One Banner meant independence despite party affiliation it has turned into an snp collective with GRA policies front and centre , IF AUOB are serious about INDEPENDENCE they should arrange a PROTEST MARCH AGAINST THE SECT 30 PISH , a protest March to CONFRONT sturgeon and to DEMAND she implements a plebiscitery election ASAP and keep up the pressure.
FFS WE , A WHOLE COUNTRY are being held to ransom by one dictatorial narcissistic incompetent deviant who is DRIVING US into POVERTY and servitude and all WE can do is whinge
Ebok I have NEVER been a member of a political party because they ALL stink , they are all in it to better themselves and if that helps the plebs , good
As for Alex Salmond and ALBA if that piece of scum and her cohorts had attempted to do what they did to him I would move heaven and earth to destroy them , but there is no sign of even the legal action against Evans ,or anyone
AS is reported to have said that he has enough evidence to bury them, Alex give me a shovel or start a crowdfunder
Surely in his time in office Alex must have made more friends and allies than he did enemies so where are they , are they content to see Scotland and her people poverty stricken and subdued by a lunatic
Here we are- video of Boris at yet another party in No 10 with several people there, a table covered in bottles of booze and old Bojo doing a toast right in the middle of a lockdown he
Prescribed while people could not be with their dying relatives.
We now need an equity to establish the latest batch of corrupt Senior Met Police officers who can understand evidence in living moving colour
https://news.sky.com/story/partygate-new-photos-appear-to-show-boris-johnson-toasting-colleague-at-downing-st-drinks-in-lockdown-12619868
“I’d love to see you actually confronted with some Ukrainians to tell them why they had it coming.”
Agent Ellis.
Yeah we are well aware what they can do.
https://theworldwatch.com/ukrainian-refugees-kill-a-polish-after-he-tries-to-stop-them-from-harassing-a-young-woman.htm
@ebok.
Your points are exactly what I had wondered.
why indeed did so many of the 111 who were very well known previous successful politicians and states people in their own right not break through at all.
knowing how polling worked or did nt at 2014 referendum as well as a very straight former old SNP Lanarkshire Councillor and his view of the honesty in council elections.
The answer may be something untoward happened to many of the votes that Alba candidates actually received.
Remember we have no independent observers or guardians of the count and or voting papers.
I think I have said enough. ?
@Ian McCubbin 8:09pm
You have said enough. If my family and me had switched votes then the Scottish Family Party would have beaten Alba in our ward. Nothing to do with conspiracy or where the votes are counted. Deal with the facts. Alba didn’t break through again. That means the Scottish people have rejected an early Independence vote. Hats off to the Alba candidate who put himself forward as a public service candidate. But the facts speak to the truth.
Of course if the Scottish people have rejected an early Independence vote then why have the Scottish Government challenged the ICO decision 048/2022. The answer they don’t want the people to know they can’t hold an Independence Referendum. A legal argument devoid of points in law atypical of Nicola Sturgeon. Meanwhile the movement are taking for mugs again.
Peston informs us that the Parliamentary Standards Committee would need to decide if
Boris knew he attended Parties and lied to parliament about it as it is on the statute books
that the PM must resign if found lying.
There is no Chair in place for that Committee so it may take Westminster until the Autumn to
put a committee together?
Wonder if it will be made up entirely of Boris fans and even if not, remember that committee ruled that Liar Fib Dem Carmichael was OK to lie about French Gate and waste £1 million on an enquiry that proved him to be a liar.
Now I know some people are blind and haven’t seen the pictures from different parties on
Different lockdown dates but perhaps knowing people at the parties have been fined for being at the same parties as Boris.
Now some more insult to your intelligence and we are all in it together crap.
Sue Gray completed her report months ago and handed the extensive report and evidence to the police who should have taken a day to convict Bojo on multiple charges but they have stalled in hope public interest would wain.
They stopped the Gray report from being published. Why? It only has facts in it.
We were informed the Gray report would be public as soon as the police enquiry stopped.
Well it’s stopped and we still don’t have the report.
Is the Boris and Gray secret meeting ending in a cover up version being quickly penned.
The answer is Yes. Would Boris resign if he committed murder live on TV. No.
The most corrupt government backed up by a completely corrupt police force.
@Effigy 10:34pm
I will spell it out in 3 bears language if you want to talk about corrupt Government. The Information Commissioner states that the legal advice given to the Scottish Government on their right to hold an Independence Referendum should be made publicly available redacted of course but with the fundamentals laid bare. The Scottish Government are contesting this decision on the basis its not in their parties interest. The definition of corrupt Government.
Furthermore what is the Court of Session supposed to make of this? Where is the point of law? Nicola has Covid?. The SNP will lose votes. It’s nonsense. There is no point in law to reject the ICO decision.
Ian McCubbin says:
23 May, 2022 at 8:09 pm
@ebok.
Your points are exactly what I had wondered.
why indeed did so many of the 111 who were very well known previous successful politicians and states people in their own right not break through at all.
knowing how polling worked or did nt at 2014 referendum as well as a very straight former old SNP Lanarkshire Councillor and his view of the honesty in council elections.
The answer may be something untoward happened to many of the votes that Alba candidates actually received.
Remember we have no independent observers or guardians of the count and or voting papers.
I think I have said enough. ?”
“Remember we have no independent observers or guardians of the count and or voting papers.”
What do you think candidates being allowed Counting Agents at the count are for?
If there was some sort of “grand conspiracy”, how did the Tories lose a seat in North Lanarkshire to someone whose “manifesto” amounted to “‘Mon The Rangers ‘un The Sash Ma Da Wore ‘un that!”?
Why was the sole Alba candidate in Renfrewshire massacred whilst Andy Doig, someone who left the SNP under trumped up charges of “homophobia” (which the pro-SNP press still loves to bring up, even though he was vindicated!) topped the poll in his ward as an independent yet again?
Why did the Rubbish Party retain its sole seat in Ayrshire?
I’ve already been through this (the post appears to have vanished …) but the cold hard facts are Alba and the ISP’s “campaigns” were derisory – and it’s long past both facing up to the fact. Yes, so was the main parties in the main, but they at least had the benefit of national “brand names” and TV coverage. They could afford the luxury of one or two token
Both these parties ought to have been fighting four times as hard to establish themselves in their localities, and long before these elections may I add. They did nothing of the kind.
Those Alba members who were sitting councillors clearly believed – in the most appalling naivity – that being the sitting councillor would be enough to get them back in, even though the whole point of the multi-member ward system was to favour “brand loyalty” over personal followings and thus keep elected party members in line and fearing deselection for dissent.
It would be nice to think both will have learned some lessons, but judging from their pronouncements since, it appears both are determined to carry on making the same old mistakes and same old failed strategies (inbetween squabbling with each other like children on a long car journey) from now until Scotland is renamed Transrainbowtartania with Sturgeon named First Amongst More Equal Than Others for life.
@ Ebok at 6:59 pm
Much obliged
“Alba didn’t break through again. That means the Scottish people have rejected an early Independence vote.”
George Ferguson.
How does the above equate to folk rejecting an early indy vote?
@Republicofscotland 23 May, 2022 at 7:39 pm
“Yeah we are well aware what they can do”
Hey Repo, I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt and check out your link. Big mistake, that’s 2 minutes of my life I won’t get back.
As one of the BTL commenters pointed out, Ukrainian men can’t be refugees by definition, unless of course, they are ethnic Russians, so maybes your little “bombshell” has blown up in your face.
But I guess you are used to that.
@Republicofscotland 9:58pm
What other conclusion can you draw from the poor electoral performance of Alba? Reinforced by a Survation poll just after the local elections that measured only 29% were in favour of a referendum in 2023. An early Independence vote is not going to happen. The Scot Gov do not have the legal authority, logistically it’s already too late even if there was the political will and legal basis. My objection to the SNP stance is that they have been and are being dishonest by continually dangling the Independence carrot. The SNP took the Independence movement and abused their trust for their own ends. A day of reckoning is overdue.
@Mark Boyle says 23 May, 2022 at 11:47 pm
Good post.
It’s a shame there is no voting or uptick facility on here so we could judge which narratives are resonating with the silent majority of readers.
@George Ferguson 24 May, 2022 at 10:34 am
Agreed.
But credit where it’s due. As Rev Stu’s post makes clear, the SNP have the size of the boxes on the ballots specified to the nearest millimeter, so don’t let anybody say they have not been busy.
Me, I’m a wee bit disappointed. I thought that, post-Brexit, they might have specified the box size in inches, but hey ho.
(21mm = just over 13/16 inch)
Scum 1
Tell us again about the US general captured in the Ukrainian steel works along with all the NATO commanders!
The only accurate thing you post is ‘Sturgeon the Betrayer’. All the rest is mince, but…………..the sane and educated on here know that already.
Go and get a hobby, take some fresh air, volunteer in a charity shop-do anything rather than bore us all to death on here.
twathater @ 6.33pm
Your thoughts are broadly in line with my views. I’ve said many times that political parties are the problem, not the solution, and I’ve questioned Alex Salmond’s reluctance to take court action as well as his more recent decision not to publish his book.
One particular point you make is: –
‘Surely in his time in office Alex must have made more friends and allies than he did enemies so where are they’
Embarrassingly, outside of ALBA, his lone defender has been David Davis. Yet on ‘Prism’ Dec 2021, and again since, Alex has refused to attack SNP with any venom at all.
In fact, he would only resort to self-criticism at one of the Q&A meetings pre-election when he said his greatest political mistake was in allowing New Labour ‘unfettered access into SNP’ at the time of labours implosion.
But where we differ is that I think AS has earned his place as leader of the independence movement and I am prepared to continue supporting him and ALBA simply because of the alternative: i.e. a Scottish political landscape WITHOUT him or ALBA. If things are looking bleak with him around, they would be utterly desolate otherwise.
However, ALBA voting and membership numbers make it pretty clear that this is very much a minority view. There now appears to be little prospect of ALBA making a breakthrough anytime soon, and despite numerous alternative suggestions being put forward here on WoS, unless someone else emerges and provides leadership to test these alternatives, we remain adrift and directionless and stuck with Sturgeon for FOUR more years.
John Main says:
24 May, 2022 at 10:37 am
It’s a shame there is no voting or uptick facility on here so we could judge which narratives are resonating with the silent majority of readers.
—
Worry ye not, yer very close personal friend Andy Ellis will be along at some point to tell us all.
I see he’s been doing that thing again, where he denies ever saying he’d campaign against independence if the franchise excludes his wife. Lying erse.
Someone born outwith Scotland being denied a vote for one day only has precedent – EUref of 2016.
All treaties entered into by UK Parliament already include the kingdom of Scotland as a joint signatory and will continue to do so, per Union with England Act 1707 – this takes care of the ‘International Community’ recognition bollocks he’s been squealing about. NATO memebership, UN, WTO, WHO, Council of Europe,
Scotland’s economy is worth what its worth. Same with cash in people’s accounts. – there’s yer currency sorted. Trade deals roll over, so seamless transition there too but with Scotland having the power to renegotiate as things develop over time.
Scotland could be up and running as an independent country within 18 months was the opinion given to Honest Dave prior to 2014 ref…it was right.
Holyrood as convened is an extention of UK Parliament, except the sovereignty bit hasn’t transferred from there entirely.
If Scottish Parliament passes a Bill, then holds a referendum to seek permission from the people to seek Royal assent, there’s fuck all Alister Jack or Doogie Ross or Baroness Narcissist or Tractor McConnell or Zombie Brown can do about it. They’d lose in Court of Session and ‘UK Supreme’ court just isn’t.
We the people can also bypass Holyrood and Westminster, and organise our own referendum, if we wanted to.
Self Determination means Self Determination.
James Che. @ 23 May, 2022 at 1:06 pm
“Scotland must be one of the few remaining Colonies of the British empire.”
Yes, it seems reasonable to assume that the ‘internal colonies’ will be last to let go. Cultural assimilation may be so embedded that the oppressed native struggles to understand their wretchedness, as well as their national identity, or thair ain langage, or their actual history etc. To debase the native is the main purpose of the coloniser, and to make any prospect of liberation seem remote. At the end of the day independence is still decolonisation, and the only other outcome here is assimilation and ‘cultural obliteration’, and with that the ultimate perishing of a people and their nation.
https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/the-socio-political-determinants-of-scottish-independence/
“What other conclusion can you draw from the poor electoral performance of Alba?”
George Ferguson.
Lets see the constant negative foreign media attacks on Alex Salmond, the fit up of Salmond by Sturgeon’s clique also amplified by the Britnat media, of which if you believe Iain Lawson (and I do) we are now giving the foreign press in Scotland close to £9 million pounds per year.
Unfortunately even though Salmond was found innocent of the charges against him mud still sticks to a certain degree.
@Scott says 24 May, 2022 at 11:32 am
“Scotland could be up and running as an independent country within 18 months”
You know what, Scott? I totally agree. 100%
So where lies the problem? It’s that support for Indy has plateaued at 45%, as documented by Rev Stu.
I don’t know what it will take to turn that 45/55 into 55/45, or even 51/49. New faces at the top would be a start.
But I still think that clearly evidencing how we will be financially better off after Indy is the way to go. Forget patriotism, culture, language, historical injustices and all those distractions that really only matter to a minority. For the bulk of politically disengaged Scots, prove to us how much more money we will have after Indy.
You won’t be able to beat off the Yes voters with a shitty stick if you can do that.
*sigh*
Can we all stop feeding the trolls (Ellis/Main etc) please this is getting tedious.
Were politicians aware of a voting system in 1706/07.
Yes very much so.
Were politicians in the English Parliament aware that the the Scots should have a vote on wether to join the treaty of the union or not in 1706/07,
Yes very much so.
Under this awareness did they ask the Sovereign Scot to vote to join the treaty of the union,
No, they decided not to put a vote to the Scots to join the treaty of the union.
Under prior discussion on voting, it was decided that in all probibility the Sovereign Scot would vote against it if asked the question under a vote.
This is recorded on the uk parliament site.
So whom was asked? And whom joined the Treaty officially?
Fact: The people of the three Estates whom signed their signatures.
Did the three Estates own all the country and Sovereign people of Scotland in 1706/07 with land deeds from the Scots?
No.
Did the English Parliament consider or conclude that the Three Estates and the Sovereign Scots were one and the same.
No.
For the English Parliament had discussed wether to give the Sovereign Scottish people a Vote on joining the treaty of the union.
So we return to the original question,
Did the Sovereign Scot ever vote to join the treaty of the union?
No.
Have they ever voted or been asked to vote to join the treaty of the union?
NO.
Whom then is beholden to follow the articles of the treaty of the union?
Those whom signed up to it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1528826917515837440
YES.
YES.
YES.
Fightin’ talk.
Breeks says:
24 May, 2022 at 2:04 pm
https://mobile.twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1528826917515837440
Now that’s what I call firing a starting gun!
That’s the kind of fighting talk we been waiting for and can all rally behind.
Was that from the ALBA public meeting on Sunday, Breeks?
Breeks @2.04pm.
Thanks for the link, and that’s why they’ve been trying to remove Salmond from the political scene, he wants to see an independent Scotland, unlike the betrayer.
I am not on twitter so get stop from reading it.
I am interested in what the over all response was to his speech,
Can any one give me the vague outline of how the independence responsded.
Well done Alex for not given up.
Watched that AS clip last night . You’re right RoS , THIS is why * they * went to such lengths to try and take him out . That kind of passion , commitment and focused anger can’t be faked ; nor can it be silenced , short of assassination . They tried the judicial version of doing so and failed , miserably . It’s a crying shame they have at least partially and – hopefully temporarily – * succeeded * in assassinating his character .
If only the truth could be revealed , the whole stinking conspiracy – aye CONSPIRACY , that thing some people are intent on telling us never happens , is the province of cranks and weirdos . It would indeed set us free
https://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/defining-critical-thinking/766
Spot-on quote Ian . The Rational and Irrational are in constant , dynamic interplay within us and in the collective .
I doubt there’s ever been a more urgent need for critical thinking than there is currently . The stakes have never been higher – the future of humanity and the planet as a living , breathing organism
Can there be any who doubt that the British state is oligarchic, plutocratic, pseudo-democratic i.e. viscerally corrupt, whoever’s running the thing?
If some Scots fail to grasp that, maybe they need their unionjack noses to be well rubbed in the corruption. Aversion training is supposed to work with dogs.
I wonder if there’s a total submersion course they could be sent on? A few SNP types might join them too.
@ Breeks 2.04pm THAT is the kind of talk I like , now Alex please follow it up with ACTION
@ ebok thanks for your response , I too am relying on and supporting ALBA and AS , I also remember in 2020-2021 we were distraught that the betrayer had NO OPPOSITION to anything , she had an open highway and was intent on dragging us to HELL and nothing we could do about it or to stop it
Then Alex Salmond launched ALBA and HOPE was restored it made us REAL independence supporters realise that all was NOT lost
what really sickens me are the comments under that video from SUPPOSED independence supporters probably members of the snp who cannot and will not face the UNDENIABLE TRUTH , that nicola sturgeon for the past 8 years has done NOTHING to PROMOTE independence , NO educational literature to highlight or PROVE to undecided or NO voters that Scotland is a wealthy country, that CAN and WILL survive outwith the uk , individual twatterers like Zarkwan unaided have provided mountains of leaflets, pamphlets and posters ALL available for download and usage to EDUCATE and INFORM the undecided , BUT their figures are NOT official and hold NO provenance ,BUT our snp Scottish government who have the JOB and DUTY to educate and inform the masses of the benefits of independence have sat on their hands and arses and done NOTHING, NOTHING apart from creating division ,rancour and hatred within the YES movement
So I cannot relate or understand how anyone with a functioning brain or a grasp of reality can dissect the current situation and the situation we have undergone for the last 8 years and believe that sturgeon has independence as a priority of her tenure
@ Breeks re: BRICS countries.
Here’s an article for interest of you:
https://asiatimes.com/2022/05/china-should-move-reserves-out-of-us-treasuries/
twathater says:
24 May, 2022 at 5:51 pm
members of the snp who cannot and will not face the UNDENIABLE TRUTH , that nicola sturgeon for the past 8 years has done NOTHING to PROMOTE independence…..
I’ve mentioned it a few times now, but that Spycatcher exercise, where you determine whether a spy is loyal or a t(ractor) by weighing up all the good versus all the bad…
Looking over Sturgeon’s 7-8 years in charge, there are some screaming great negatives, absolute howlers on the negative side, most of which we all know about, but on the positive side, what she has actually done for the Indy cause…. You know I’m really struggling with the positives.
I’m not saying that as a throwaway remark. I’m trying to be as objective as I can be, but there really is nothing coming to me.
She has done NOTHING but dampen and dissipate enthusiasm, drive important parts of the Movement to absolute despair until it fractures in acrimony, squandered chance, after chance, after chance… She sacks the best of us and vindictively tries to ruin their careers, and fills their vacant positions with feckless nobodies. The progress made by Alex Salmond’s government, and the reputation of the SNP has all been shattered.
Worst case scenario… what’s the worst she could be? OK, lets just say she was a rogue element and proud BritNat “sleeper”, (aye, she’s a damned good one if that’s right), but in that “imaginary” scenario, what could a rogue “evil” Sturgeon have actually done to hurt us more than the real one?
I don’t know how this dark time in Scotland’s Independence struggle will come to an end, but it will pass, and I think in the fullness of time, Nicola Sturgeon will be extraordinarily lucky if she’s “only” remembered as a good for doing nothing.
I think, when the cracks occur and shite starts to flow, it’s gonna just keep on coming.
The acid test for Sturgeon will be when she finally sees the writing on the wall. She will either burn the house down with everyone in it, or she will bug out and run in the last chopper out of Saigon, and good riddance.
I know The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is just a fantasy novel, but I cannot help myself… when Aslan the Lion is betrayed by the Ice Queen, humiliated by her minions and sacrificed on a stone alter, whereupon the Queen inherits the Kingdom and turns everything to ice.
She thinks she is safe in her ice world, safe and secure behind her 1998 Scotland Act and devolved Assembly, where nothing can touch her.
But Aslan the lion is written off too quickly. Aslan the Lion knows the older, deeper magic of a 700+ year old Sovereign Constitution that is far, far, more powerful than the Ice Queen’s 1998 Scotland Act.
Back he comes to save the day, and turns the frozen wilderness back to sunshine and spring meadows…
Hey, I know it’s just fiction. For one thing, the real Tilda Swinton’s on our side. 😉
PacMan says:
24 May, 2022 at 6:06 pm
China has built a foreign exchange-earning economy and accumulated US$3.3 trillion in reserves over the past few decades, but such policies are outdated and need to be adjusted.
—
Unless the $3.3 trillion is being used to buy goods and services from the USA it isn’t worth a dime anyway, so selling it via the exchanges too makes sense.
Smart money (lolz) would be to offer it all for coal ‘n oil ‘n stuff from the businesses of USA, on a call-off basis long term, and keep doing what they’ve been doing to accumulate $3.3 trillion of reserves. Like hoarding American ‘wealth’ to sell back to them.
They could eventually build a new wall out of greenbacks. Make America pay for it, as it were. Them could take photos of it from the moon. It’d be a great wall.
Breeks @ 7.14
( actual ) Gold Standard post amigo . Excellent 🙂
” They could eventually build a new wall out of greenbacks. Make America pay for it, as it were. Them could take photos of it from the moon. It’d be a great wall.”
Cracker Scott
BUILD THAT WALL! BUILD THAT WALL ! BUILD THAT WALL ! 5 MORE CENTURIES FOR THE DENG DYNASTY !
Cracking speech from Alex Salmond – just the type of person that we need to be leading a government that is focussed on regaining independence.
I cannot stomach the criminal incompetents who are standing in our way. They should all be charged with misconduct in public office, for starters.
That is why I suggested offering NS money to go – none of the parliamentary group is going to drive her out and the party is so stitched up that a leadership challenge will be stifled, so what else is there that can be done?
The weekend leak about the Balmoral Hotel “incident” doesn’t seem to have gone viral. A law case without any order to conceal the defendant’s identity would be helpful but if any such has been started it is taking a very long time to get into the public domain. We need a quick fix.
@Ottomanboi says 24 May, 2022 at 4:38 pm
“Can there be any who doubt that the British state is oligarchic, plutocratic, pseudo-democratic i.e. viscerally corrupt, whoever’s running the thing?”
Maybes aye, maybes nae.
Not clear where you are going with this Otto. There is no simple connection between the recognition of corruption and voting patterns. Why would there be?
In the real world, people might vote for the lesser of two corruptions. If people are in the position where they can personally benefit from corruption, they might enthusiastically support the idea.
I have personally encountered voters who cannot believe that there is any reason other than corrupt, personal gain, for people to go into politics in the first place.
Sometimes, looking at what a thankless task politics is at the best of times, I have some sympathy with that view.
PacMan says:
24 May, 2022 at 6:06 pm
@ Breeks re: BRICS countries.
Here’s an article for interest of you:
Thanks PacMan, I confess economics isn’t really my thing, but I’m trying to stick with it.
The “wax crayon” version I see there, is China is a little anxious about having invested or loaned so much money in the US that if the US does to China what it did to Russia, and basically keeps all the money, then China is going to be seriously out of pocket. Yes, that I can see.
But there’s a massive elephant in the room, and that relates to reputational damage done “to” the US by revealing itself to be so “sharklike” with foreign exchange transactions, whether that’s debt or investment. Of course, nobody likes to feel robbed, but being the nation doing the robbing is hardly a badge of honour.
The closest analogy to that I can think of is America is living the life in a Chinese owned Casino, and the management is a little nervous about whether their American high roller customer is good for the credit he has, whether he can repay it, or whether he intends to default. Prudence demands the customers credit limit is reduced, but the clever bit will be doing it without upsetting the customer.
It’s all a bit unpredictable in the short term, but I think in the mid to longer term, America will come to seriously regret seizing foreign exchange assets, because nobody sensible is going to develop foreign exchange investments in countries which might seize or impound the money / goods / investment at the drop of a hat.
I suspect America’s hubris and knee-jerk seizure of Russian assets has served as a warning to anybody else that investing in the “touchy” USA risks never seeing your money again.
So if you don’t want to base your exports and foreign exchange trading with a “light fingered USA”, then who are you gonna trade with?
Europe? They’re a bit trigger happy with the sanctions and yacht seizures too.
Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa? Hmmm
And kinda off topic but not, I’ve cast doubts about Scotland being debt free on Independence. “Seceding” states start up debt free yes, but if the UK splits up as constitutional equals, we should rightfully take a per capita share of UK debt, offset to a degree with a similar share of shared UK assets.
If we don’t, foreign investors might think Scotland doesn’t pay it’s way and isn’t a safe place to invest their dosh. Investors invest with the expectation they’ll see their money again. With the Russian sanctions, and swiping everybody’s yachts, that’s not the “vibe” certain folks are now getting from the USA.
@Scott 7:31
Approx 30 seconds online research finds that China currently owes $5 trillion in international debt.
I’m guessing that holding $3.3 trillion in foreign currency is one of the factors that has allowed China to borrow to such a level in the first place, but the fact is, like just about every country in the world, China owes.
If you want a real story about China, check out the restrictions on personal foreign travel and currency exports that China has been ratcheting up since February. There is some online info about it, with some China watchers suggesting it could be the preliminary steps for China going on a war footing.
China being such a great place and all, the Chinese regime is terrified of a mass exodus of educated Chinese, taking their wealth with them.
@Breeks 8:52
The other elephant in the room, when discussing Russian wealth in the west (including the UK), is that the wealth was mostly stolen from the Soviet state and the Russian people.
Morally, the right thing to do is to return that wealth to the Russian people. Practically, that is impossible while the same thieving gangsters that stole it remain in charge. TBH, it probably won’t happen even when they are gone.
Regarding Scotland’s share of the IOUs post-Indy, I don’t accept we will be debt-free either, but just for a larff, let’s assume we will be.
Meantime, in rUK, the pound will have tanked overnight, as the markets realise that rUK can never pay back what is owed, given that they have just lost the Scottish cash cow, and something like several million earners and taxpayers.
Cue for drams all round in Scotland, but wait. What will we have in our wallets to pay for them? If it’s pounds sterling (or something pegged to its value) we will all be right royally fucked.
Which is why the currency question needs sorted.
John Main says:
24 May, 2022 at 8:54 pm
@Scott 7:31
Approx 30 seconds online research finds that China currently owes $5 trillion in international debt.
—
Good job it has US$3.3 trillion in reserve. Only another 50% of that value to find and net-zero debt for the world’s most populated nation.
And applying restrictions on your own currency is a good way to stop speculators from tanking its value during times of global uncertainty. South Africa are really strict re ‘capital flight’.
Thatcher couldn’t give a fuck about GBP and neither has any UK Govt since.
Anything else I can help with, John?
I’ve tried posting a comment about the link I had provided earlier but it is being held in moderation.
I can’t see what is triggering this but I just want to say thanks all for interest in it and hopefully it will stimulate conversation in the impact of current events with a possible independent Scottish currency.
James Che. says:
“Were politicians in the English Parliament aware that the Scots should have a vote on whether to join the treaty of the union or not in 1706/07?
Yes very much so.
“Under this awareness did they ask the Sovereign Scot to vote to join the treaty of the union?
No, they decided not to put a vote to the Scots to join the treaty of the union.”
You raise a very valid and interesting point, James. The Scottish people are sovereign and since they did not accede to the Treaty of Union then it is not, and never was, binding upon Scotland. The Westminster parliament, along with its devolved puppet parliament in Holyrood, is acting without authority in Scotland. An illegitimate authority cannot confer legitimacy. All that is needed is an expression of Scottish sovereignty in the form of a people’s parliament or assembly.
And it is a tonic to see Alex doing what he does best, galvanising the people.
How do alert readers feel the formation of the next Executive at WM?
Boris Johnson et al. have committed misconduct in Public Office, which is a common law criminal offence in Scotland.
Privy Council have a duty to advise the platinum monarch with full regard to the rule of law. How many of them have had a private audience as is their right and duty?
Nobody is outwith the scope of Scots law when it comes to duties towards the Scors in public office at WM, Holyrood, The Justiciary, COPFS, UN, NATO, WTO, WHO etc
Union with England Act 1707 wrote it all down. Equality of the kingdoms enshrined in Scots law forever, notwithstanding the union, and those terms to be explicitly implied in all treaties with others.
Everything is a rollover in international law, constitutionally.
Now, Scotland’s economy has a value.
Goods & Services/Income & Expenditure/The future…etc
People will eat and work and vote and get pished occasionally etc, as now.
A brand new currency would keep the country turning fine with no risk to the ‘money markets’…and is far safer than sharing say the petrodollar that will have little value IF gas/oil is freely traded.
American goods are shite, really really shite. Their chocolate tastes worse than dug stuff. I’d rather eat a foosty bit of Easter egg found under the couch in the summertime.
Who needs a trade deal with them, really? New rule…you want Single Malt Scotch? You come to Scotland and drink it here or hump it home to up Copperhead Road yourself.
There’s scope for massive Government-only investment in infrastructure…which creates the real circular economy, and is the easiest way to control the flow of cash earmarked for debt repayments. Tax people, fine, but don’t make them out to be liable for the nation’s debt or their grandchildren.
Imports/Exports will sort the foreign currency issues as usually happens everywhere.
I personally have never understood the issue with the fiscal, legal or constitutional arguments around our sovereign rights as Scots to decide our own future based on our own defined borders.
Fun fact about Scots law that’s as relevant now as it will be at a decent time of the morning when it’s normally light by the sun rather than the moon.
If your birth was registered in Scotland, the place it was registered at has a lifelong duty of care towards you.
eg If you find yourself homeless, said place via local council must provide shelter and access to funds.
Not sure that England’s councils have the same obligations, but I’d be signposted to Glasgow or more likely Rwanda if I turned up homeless in the Kent countryside after a few weeks on the hops, shellfish and strawberries.
@Scott says 24 May, 2022 at 9:30 pm
“applying restrictions on your own currency is a good way to stop speculators from tanking its value during times of global uncertainty. South Africa are really strict re ‘capital flight’”
Oh yes, that exemplar for the kind of country we really all want Scotland to be like: South Africa. BTW Scott. Ordinary people trying to get their life’s savings out of countries like shit-hole SA and open-prison China are not “speculators”.
“Thatcher couldn’t give a fuck about GBP and neither has any UK Govt since”
Now Scott, you know that just ain’t so.
“Anything else I can help with, John?”
Haha, good one Scott.
Breeks @8:52pm
The sensible thing on the breakup of the UK, if any debt was apportioned, would be to accept it denominated in GBP then introduce our own currency. Since it will be backed by abundant natural resources it should be relatively stable, unlike the pound, as John Main says, which once deprived of it’s Scottish cash-cow will drop like a stone. Paying off the debt should then just be a matter of rummaging around between the cushions on the sofa for some loose change.
JOHN MAIN. 8:36pm
If there is no accountability and «transparency» in government the people are simply voting fodder. If they knowing tolerate being «used» they carry the blame.
Corruption in politics is as old as the Greek city states. Being smaller entities they presented greater transparency and the self serving tyrant might be expelled or executed by the citizens.
The overblown administrations of modern times with little subsidiarity or devolution at the basic/local level of democracy and popular indifference combine to make a fertile breeding ground for corrupt pract?ces. The ?dea that politics is a lifetime career is a perfect culture medium. Having great wealth ought to be a barrier to being an «influencer» in a true democracy, as the past three years has demonstrated to those with 20/20 vision.
https://www.transparency.org.uk/corruption-wealth-political-power
And that was a view from distant 2018…so much worse now.
Unless this matter becomes the focus of popular attention a new genus of Fascism will take permanent root. Expecting politicians to fix this is a turkeys voting for christmas situation.
@Ottomanboi says 25 May, 2022 at 9:10 am
Thanks for your response.
In Ancient Greece, the proportion of the population who got a vote never exceeded 20%, so by limiting the franchise, they ensured a uniformity of outlook, which I would argue is fundamental to any functioning democracy.
Once partisanship and diversity get their feet in the door, working democracy is effectively finished. Just look at the USA.
Myself, I don’t buy the idea that being wealthy should bar you from politics, just as I don’t buy the idea that being broke should bar you either. I don’t see how either extreme is more or less susceptible to financial or other enducements. The rich gal will want policies that keep her rich. The poor gal will want policies that rake it in for her. I see no reason to believe that one is more “moral” than the other.
Regarding politics as a career, we don’t much rate temporary, part-time, short-term contract “experts” in any other walk of life. The days of amateur top-flight sport, for example, are long gone.
If we can’t make trivial pursuits like football work as a sideline to somebody’s day job, I don’t think we should downgrade critically important roles in politics either. For everybody other than the rare genius, it takes most of a lifetime to become really good at something.
How many of us have a part-time dentist who really only dabbles in dentistry as a hobby? No, me neither.
The treacherous b*stard Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots becomes Scotland’s longest serving FM.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20163056.sturgeon-sets-new-record-longest-term-fm%2F
The betrayer claims here that she’s often misrepresented, then the rat goes on to say this.
“The SNP leader said she believed that both in society in general and in her party there was a “consensus” in favour of gender reform.”
We know the above is lies due to polls on this very site posted by the Rev.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20162440.nicola-sturgeon-tells-greater-govanhill-very-often-misrepresented%2F
There is no worry about an independent Scotland inheriting or having debt. Handling debt is a normal function of government.
Sovereign debt is the same as an ordinary person getting a mortgage. It is a huge responsibility and is a risk but the benefits outweighs the disadvantages and everybody does it because they have a good chance of paying off the mortgage eventually.
The same goes for countries having debt. As long as they have a responsible government then it isn’t a problem.
James Che./Saffron Robe says:
‘You raise a very valid and interesting point, James. The Scottish people are sovereign and since they did not accede to the Treaty of Union then it is not, and never was, binding upon Scotland’
Like most folks, I was never taught much Scottish history in school, certainly nothing about the ‘Treaty’. It’s almost criminal that I’ve learned more about it on Wings, or self-research, than through my right as a Scot to be educated about our past.
Anyway, my point is: if/when it is Indy2 rather than other alternatives, the starting point should be a written explanation, posted to every household, detailing exactly just what we did/didn’t agree to in the ‘Treaty’: what is legally binding and what is not? What assets are Scottish, what assets are english?
If (hahaha) it transpires that we have been sold a pup, then surely any referendum question should be asking if we want to REMAIN independent, or JOIN a union with england, handing over control of our assets, laws, and rights to self-determination?
Once voters realise just what they will be giving up (or has been stolen from them), the outcome would surely be a foregone conclusion that no amount of media bias could influence.
shit – it’s a bugger when one goes into moderation and you have no idea what the offending word was
John Main,
In football, we don’t necessarily need referees to be good or bad at their job (obviously, being good would be preferential) but we do need them to be consistent.
Likewise, we don’t need politicians to be good or bad at their job but what we need is honesty and integrity.
As people can become politicians at the drop of a hat, I would argue there is no particular skill they need to learn, the job should be quite simple and obvious if we want to be a democracy, it’s our job to tell the politicians what we want (not the other way round) and their job to implement it.
If certain aspects of the job become difficult, they can have a debate in Parliament, a poll or enlist the help of experts that have no conflict issues for example.
I’ve never been a dentist or a politician. If I was to “dabble” in dentistry tomorrow, I would be appalling at it and would not like to be one of my clients.
However, if I became a politician tomorrow, I would be a damned sight better than 99% of them.
Other than lining their pockets, politics should be a vocational job with average pay plus expenses and limits on outside financial interests in my opinion. I’m open to any ideas that would stop politicians being lying corrupt servants of the rich and powerful.
Or maybe at the next Bilderberg group backslapping, don’t let them back out into the world.
Saffron Robe.
Ebok,
I had this conversation with Alex and Alba members just prior to the council election.
It appears that nothing can be taken at face value when it comes to the treaty of the union.
There is also a quirky twist in this conversation when it comes to asset sharing that breeks and others miss.
As uk parliament specify this on their site,
They had decided not to ask the Scots to join the treaty of the union by avoiding allowing them to have a vote to join.
However Englands Parliament also recognise in having made that historical decision, that the SCOTS were (legally a separate entity) out with, from the Three Estates,.
Which brings us back to the beginning.
Did all of Scotlands people join the treaty of the union, NO.
The English Parliament [only] recognised the Three Estates, as being/ joining in the treaty of the union., not the SCOTS.
So are the Three Estates legally liable, for a financial pooling and sharing of sovereign Scots resources.
I would suggest No.
For The other quirky legality.
Once the treaty of the union was signed the new British Parliament expected the Three Estates to close its doors, to be canceled,/ not exist, to become void and annulled. Cease, Not to emphasise it to much.
As a result the three estates Scottish government was cancelled and ceased to exist 300 years ago.
And death usually voids debts,
And a Scottish government no longer in existance to uphold its part of the treaty articles.
What is left?
The English / British Parliament for 300 years or more using and taken the SCOTS [ whom are not in the treaty ] resources, land and country.
If any financial settlement is looked for at all,
It would be to reimburse the Sovereign Scots Whom were deliberately prevented from joining the treaty of the union in 1707 by the then English Parliament.
Note: as an aside i would suggest many of the independence movement copy and print out the statement made from the UK parliament site, before it disappears and pass it on to others in the ” Yes” independent Scotland.
As we are not the only one’s that did not know that the Scots did not join the treaty of the union in 1707.
You will find it in the section treaty of the union, and history.
I came across it while doing other research. Jumping from one link to another on uk parliament site.
Ebok.
It appears that we the Scots are indeed already Sovereign and independent, (ie) not in the treaty of the union.
We were sold a pup, as you say, for 300 years, and the British Parliament were aware of that.
What is interesting at the moment, is the growing conversation that England is talking of going their own separate way from the treaty of the union,
I heard it being discussed on GB news this week,
We could be in for a great financial, land and resources loss not to far into the future,
Unless Scotland quickly becomes aware that we do not need to leave the Snp to negotiate limpid, bad, selling Scotland short deals on our behalf to the British Parliament.
If they are England is serious about leaving or succeeding from Scotland’ Ireland and Wales,
This time we will go into it knowing our strenghs.
Nominated to office by Sturgeon the Betrayer of Scots, anyone else see a pattern forming here.
“THE CHAIR of Scotland’s coronavirus inquiry has promised bereaved families that she won’t “shy away” from uncovering the Scottish Government’s “wrong decisions” over the pandemic.
Lady Poole was speaking as the probe examining the strategic response to the pandemic in Scotland moved into its next phase.”
I’ll be utterly amazed if anyone (associated with the SNP) especially the betrayer is held accountable for any deaths from Covid 19 in this inquiry.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20164675.covid-inquiry-wont-shy-away-probing-wrong-decision%2F
Meanwhile our charlatan of an FM has decline to answer any serious questions to a Westminster Committee. I suppose the treacherous sod can only attend stacked committee’s in Holyrood, where she knows she’ll get an easy ride.
“NICOLA Sturgeon has disappointed MPs by turning down a request to appear before a Westminster committee.
The Scottish Affairs Committee wrote to the First Minister in November last year with the invitation but she has declined citing her responsibilities and range of commitments.
She said in her letter that she is held accountable to the Scottish Parliament and pointed members of the Committee to her recent appearance before the Scottish Parliament Conveners’ Committee on March 2.
However, as pointed out in the Commons’ committee’s original invitation send on November 1, 2021, Welsh First Minister Mark Drakeford has appeared before Westminster’s Welsh Affairs Committee twice so far during this Parliament. ”
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20164659.nicola-sturgeon-disappoints-mps-declining-invite%2F
Why do Scot need a referendum ? is my Question.
If england leaves a treaty the Scots are not legally in. It is not in a negotiating position.
It can expect nothing from us except a very large Bill for the use of Sovereign Scots land and resources for the past 300 years.
JOHN MAIN.
Plato, who as you know had views on the state and its rulers, was of the opinion that what would call politicians ought to get nothing more than bed and board for their labours.
I wonder how many would bother with politics then?
However, the influencers are more of a «problem» this from a corporation president at the Davos fest.
https://off-guardian.org/2022/05/24/davos-reveals-building-blocks-for-green-social-credit-system/
Note: «So what we’re going to ALLOW people to do is»…waffle, waffle..
This is the mindset on fast track to «corporationist», not even corporatist, despotism.
Small wonder the WEF admires the Chinese way.
Republicofscotland.
Surely it is time to ignore the devolved british scotland government and its goings on.
Our Parliament is supposed to have ceased here in Scotland 300 years ago.
And as Alex said, he doubts very much that English legislation can be passed onto Scots.
And lord Cooper implied the same. The Scots are Sovereign.
The Scots were not invited to join the treaty of the union on purpose, in case they voted the wrong way,
That tells you all you need to know.
We need to gather together a Sovereign Scottish people’s Assembly. quickly And have Focus.
Partygate I went through shielding Lockdown two years of hell was in hospital got medical appointments now.Carers I wont willingly get into a situation where I meet more than one person 2 months ago carers and family took a hand to get me to go out .I obeyed all the rules still am .As is the rest of the country the next worry is fuel bills so Boris dont bother me with your excuses and as for staff being mistreated wine being spilled I dont hear that being denighied
Ottoman boi.
The WEF, the WHO,And Davos are not elected governments anywhere,
But are imposing and infiltrating governments around the world under their own admission.
They pass treaties that are meaningless, unless our own governments are looking to position themselves for One World Order and the Great reset. therefore passing the legislation on it into our governments structure,
This being the case our governments our no longer in the peoples or their country control and have gone rogue.
What do you do with rogue governments such as the snps.
According to P A BELLS Blog he is being abused and ostracised by well known independence supporters and bloggers , BUT it’s not his fault, it’s others who won’t engage in reasonable mannerly debate , this from a man who has continuously and deliberately TRASHED and DENIGRATED EAGERLY anything to do with ALBA or Alex Salmond ,a man who took YEARS to EVENTUALLY come to the realisation that sturgeon isn’t really focused on indy, a man that deliberately avoided ANY mention of the reviled GRA or the FACT that sturgeon was more interested in deviant policies than she was or is in fighting for independence
Peter admits to some BAITING which I presume is a reference to ALBA and AS, but I have to say if it was re AS and ALBA it really WAS totally convincing , his trashing and undermining of EVERYTHING about AS and ALBA had the air of fixated venal targetting about it
He berates Grousebeater Gareth Wardell and Sara Salyers as being unreasonable and unwilling to listen to open respectful debate but as one who has disagreed with his views and commented such on his blog and suffered his nasty retorts I have to say I am not surprised they don’t want to engage
Well said @Twat
The Independista stratosphere seems full of shrill banshees at the moment.
If its not the Irascible taking umbrage with the histrionic, its the hysterical berating the deluded.
JAMES CHE 5:28pm
Indeed, this matter is truly global. Sleep walking into repression, with the mechanisms of democracy usurped. The docility of «the masses» towards the emerging new global order is the WEF et al. wet dream. If they’d set the thing up by design it couldn’t be going better.
Now they wouldn’t do that….
ScotGov latest ploy to solve Scotland’s population problem https://archive.ph/XM0EK
Why not just post on Rightmove, country for sale…
What a collection of lightweights.
The WEF is mainly about control of people through money, to be precise, digital currency that would decide what you could buy,
I think what you say is quite correct, Ebok. The Treaty of Union is only a unitary trade and defence agreement which England has transgressed to their considerable advantage over and over again, and which Brexit breaks irrevocably. I would also suggest that England’s foisting of illegal WMD on Scotland by “hosting” them on Scottish soil also significantly contravenes the treaty. Since the treaty is only a trade and defence agreement, Scots sovereignty and Scots law remain, as Scott explains above (3:05 am). Our independence has already been determined through the Wars of Independence (the clew is in the name!). Therefore, the question cannot be, “Should Scotland become an independent country?” because our independence has already been established. All that can be asked would be something like, “Should the trade, defence and governance agreement with England as outlined in the Treaty of Union continue?”
In terms of assets, the only fair way to divide them would be for UK assets on Scottish soil to become Scotland’s, and those on English soil to become England’s. Ironically, this would mean that we would inherit the nuclear missiles based at Faslane, an extremely powerful bargaining chip. Of course we would want them removed, but we could also demand that England pay the cost of the environmental clean-up. Overseas assets should probably be halved since we have contributed to UK embassies etc. through our taxes, but since buildings cannot easily be divided in two, England could pay Scotland an estimated equivalent value which we could then use to establish our own embassies around the world. Our territorial waters from Berwick upwards would be restored as per international law. As James C. mentions above, we would also be due considerable reparations from England for our resources taken without recompense.
And in terms of debt, I can only quote Stuart’s own words which sum up the situation perfectly:
“No, there will be no inherited debt because that’s not how debt works. You can’t just palm it off to someone else against their will. It remains the responsibility of whoever took it out, in this case the UK government.
“If the UK government wants to OFFER something in NEGOTIATION in return for Scotland taking on some of its debt, that’s another matter. But as a simple fact of law, Scotland owns absolutely none of that debt. Not one penny. You can whine about that as much as you like but it won’t stop being true.”
Rev. Stuart Campbell
May 22, Davos reveals new credit block system for carbon foot print .
For those beneath them or lower down the hierachy in scale.
It says nothing about WOMD or Wars, or Nato and europes network new police and talked of Army
Having to stop what they are doing to reduce their carbon footprint.
Nor does it mention taxing the large companies still producing plastic,
And it also avoids mentioning which land fill will take poisonous lithium batteries when the batter life span is over.
No, this is a pill, you and i can swallow that has a reaction once consumed that activates it to record every thing you buy,
And If what you have bought happen to not agree with the dictated setting?
What is the punishment to correct the way you behave?
Will this pill in the long term cause cancers within you’re body.
Will we be forced to take this pill?
Or Punished and ostracised for not taken this pill.
Left on the outside of society without medicine, food, housing, etc.
Of this new digital world of control.
Interesting and alarming route for Davos to instrument considering they are not official governments,
While our governments are crashing our economies around the globe through lockdowns and furloughs and debt.
And at this present time funneling billions of pounds money out of America, Britain, Germany, etc. Into One Country,
“He berates Gareth Wardell and Sara Salyers as unreasonable and unwilling to listen to open respectful debate. As one who has disagreed with his views and commented on his blog and suffered his nasty retorts I have to say I am not surprised they don’t want to engage.” Twathater 5.33pm
For the record, I’ve not engaged with Bell for some considerable time. Collaboration is impossible when one side demands that it is conducted on their terms. Sara Salyers has come to the same conclusion by the same painful route. No point in wasting time and energy on the belligerent.
To a great extent we’re all freelance when it comes to being a private citizen trying to secure self-governance. Freelancers are free to pick and choose with whom they like to work, people from whom they will learn something new. Bell is as free to preach SNP salvation as I am to seek constructive knowledge elsewhere.
twathater says: 25 May, 2022 at 5:33 pm
According to P A BELLS Blog he is being abused and ostracised by well known independence supporters and bloggers
Can’t speak for any of those “well known independence supporters and bloggers”, but in my case my negativity towards him largely stems from him being an obnoxious little prick who thinks he has a God given right to use other people’s blogs’ comments sections and now even newspaper comments section to advertise HIS blog in his pathetic bid to become a “career blogger”.
Peter admits to some BAITING
I would certainly concur he is indeed a Master Baiter …
I’m sorry if I should follow Oscar Wilde’s dictum that the test of good manners is to put up with people’s lack of them, but in this day and age where politeness is treated as weakness to exploit, brusqueness appears to be the wiser course.
“O Tempora! o Mores!”
James Che. says:
25 May, 2022 at 2:47 pm
What is interesting at the moment, is the growing conversation that England is talking of going their own separate way from the treaty of the union…
I said a long time ago that perhaps the best way to wield Scotland’s Sovereignty wasn’t necessarily to pull it out of a hat and sweep away everything in it’s path.
Don’t get me wrong, there will always be that option, but in my opinion, Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty should be right up front, in their faces, and when Scotland’s Unionist community know without doubt that the Union is doomed, I believe it will sap their morale.
Their morale wasn’t exactly buoyant in 2013 / 14.
The Unionists know they didn’t win in 2014. I mean, they maybe won a Pyrrhic victory, but they had to pull out ALL the stops, lied through their teeth with every advantage known to man, and “won” a Referendum which settled absolutely nothing.
It’s a rather telling reflection on the hollowness of their victory and paucity of their arguments that the “battle-cry” for IndyRef2 is that it must never be allowed to happen. My, such confidence in the strength of their Union…
But imagine that dynamic going to work in the head South of the Border… the Scots have kill switch for the Union… Will the English maybe jump before they’re pushed? They’re a very insecure bunch beneath all the war paint.
“Why wait to be jilted?”, asks Peter Hitchins. Why indeed?
Huv yea seen oor Constitutional Sovereignty Mr Hitchins? That’s the blue bit in your Union Jack…. Well for now anyway.
BUT. However much fun it might be…
With a level head, I would rather an amicable parting of the ways rather than a bitter and acrimonious divorce.
I truly think England is steering itself towards ignominious disaster, but they just won’t be told. Forget your arse-balloons like Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg, and all your Faragey racist bellends too, there are still a lot of good, good, people down there. They don’t deserve the shite that’s coming their way.
We can’t save them of course. Though maybe we can help; …to prick the hateful pomposity of English / British exceptionalism is in everybody’s interests. Even England’s.
James Che. says:
“…this new digital world of control.
“Interesting and alarming route for Davos to instrument considering they are not official governments.
While our governments are crashing our economies around the globe through lockdowns and furloughs and debt.
And at this present time funnelling billions of pounds out of America, Britain, Germany etc. into one country.”
I agree with your analysis, James. The following link may be of interest:
http://www.infowars.com/posts/archbishop-vigano-warns-nations-of-whos-pandemic-treaty-power-grab-yielding-sovereignty-is-considered-crime-of-high-treason/
@Breeks 7:24pm
There is a lot truth in what you are saying. But, and there is always a but. A bigger Unionist than Hitchens or Boris is sat in Bute House. The Tories would welcome Scottish Independence. No more feeble 50 from Labour or the SNP. A shoo in for them in England indefinitely. Why Rock the Boat Nicola, when you are on a winner?. A structurally deficient Scottish Parliament, a very compliant Scottish MSM, that don’t know the meaning of scrutiny, emasculated Scottish Institutions, party policy domination retained solely by the leader. Thumbs up no problems ahead. A relatively new Scottish Institution with only 3 primary roles will be the undoing of Bute House. And the clock is ticking towards June 10th. BTW thanks for posting the video from Alex.
In terms of a negotiated settlement, I think (and hope) Scotland would treat England as we would like to be treated ourselves, and not as England has treated others.
“@Breeks 7:24pm
There is a lot truth in what you are saying. But, and there is always a but. A bigger Unionist than Hitchens or Boris is sat in Bute House.”
@George
LOL.
Breeks.
The phrase ”
We are where we are,”
Is often true.
A bigger question for is did we ever get here?
Not according to records.
I note that the question in 2014 referendum actual belies what our position is and was at that time by asking a default question of obfuscation.
They could not ask us if We wanted to remain in the treaty of the union in 2014 as we had never been asked to join.
As we are not officially in the treaty of the union from the get go,
Where did that leave the Country of Scotland that belongs to the Sovereign Scot?
It certainly cid not belong to the Three Estates to bargain away for private profit.
The question of wether we are wanting an independent country or not, again should be on the table, it can recognised as obfuscation,
If the people of Scotland have remained outside of the treaty of union by England’s Parliamentary fear of losing a deal of trade and taxes.
And the Country of Scotland still belongs to its Sovereign people.
That is the Crux of the Scottish constitution,
@James Che 12:12am
There has always been a duality and ambiguity about Scottish Culture and a sense of identity. It stretched back more than 3 hundred years ago. It was there before the Noblemen sold us out. My question is why are you and others tolerating a political system now that has no checks and balance?. I am talking about the Scot Gov. I would welcome your insight because I don’t understand it. Narcissistic behaviour needs feeding so Nicola is easy to understand. But what is your view?
Dear James Cheyne,
How many times do you need told that Queen Anne gave assent to the Union with England Act 1707, having instructed the kingdoms to ‘settle their differences’?
It remains extant and has effect in Scots law.
You quote the breaches to your heart’s content, but always return to ‘it doesn’t count’. Why?
It does count. The people retained the right to challenge the authority of the crown via the inclusion of the Claim of Right clause inserted by the alert among the commission.
Read the words of the Act and understand the simplicity of its construction for the benefit of the people of the kingdom of Scotland.
It doesn’t need the same summary notes etc that current Acts of the UK parliament does, because of the clear and unambiguous [For George Ferguson] language used.
@Scott 1:04pm
You make my point. Queen Anne and so on. I
have been talking about the deficient nature of Scottish Politics as it stands now, based on perceived injustice of what went before. No need to embolden your point. I find that approach crass. Argue your point without it. You don’t understand Scottish politics. If you understood Scots Law you would be on my side with respect to the forthcoming point in law in the Court of Session. June the 10th I am predicted a bloodbath based on insider information. What’s your source?.;
George Ferguson says:
26 May, 2022 at 1:35 am
@Scott 1:04pm
You make my point. Queen Anne and so on. I
have been talking about the deficient nature of Scottish Politics as it stands now, based on perceived injustice of what went before.
No need to embolden your point.
I find that approach crass.
Argue your point without it.
You don’t understand Scottish politics.
If you understood Scots Law you would be on my side with respect to the forthcoming point in law in the Court of Session.
June the 10th I am predicted a bloodbath based on insider information.
What’s your source?.;
—
Yeah, what’s happening on June 10th?
I do understand Scottish politics, btw. It’s why I refer to legislation more than actual politicians and their personality traits.
Idolatry is for the individual, and there’s a lot of them. Personally, I don’t indulge and would encourage those who do to source and/or express on a different website.
I also understand and see no injustice in my common law rights in Scotland, so if you’ve any other inaccuracies to put in writing, crack on. (How did the private jet to Poland work out?)
James Che. says:
26 May, 2022 at 12:12 am
And the Country of Scotland still belongs to its Sovereign people.
That is the Crux of the Scottish constitution…
Scotland in this “Union” is the proverbial square peg hammered into a round hole. It doesn’t fit, never did, and yes the Constitution is the heart of it.
The Union, jeezo, it’s a soup and a half, which never tires of quoting English Constitutional doctrine dating before the Union, but follows the doctrine of the divine right of kings. In a world where Kings are sovereign, appointed by God, when two such Kingdoms clash and do battle, the victorious King becomes sovereign over the vanquished king because naturally, the will of God decreed it.
But that essentially colonial doctrine simply doesn’t wash in Scotland, for the simple reason sovereignty has never been the preserve of the monarch. Scotland’s Monarchy has always been conditional, because the Monarch is as Christine Grahame neatly put it, “on parole”… He is not sovereign, but bound to observe conditions, principally that it’s the people who are sovereign.
It is a vital distinction, but so much of the Unionist “Constitutional” arguments and presumptions have their origins in the divine right of kings, and the application of legitimacy which presumes a sovereign right from on high ruling over everything below it. That philosophy is not restricted to England, it is a widespread convention which has formed many nations, boundaries and colonial empires, and while they are wrong when it comes to Scotland, the Unionists who believe those doctrines apply to Scotland might be forgiven for thinking so. Excused for thinking it maybe, but they’re still categorically wrong.
Scotland is different. And since 1328, it has been formally recognised as different by God’s emissary on Earth, the Pope. Scotland’s sovereignty is not a divine sovereign power channelled down through the crowned head of a sovereign monarch, but instead it comes upwards, from the people.
There is no conqueror capable of usurping Scotland’s sovereignty unless he destroys every last living one of us, and there is no omnipotence in any Scottish monarch to forfeit or bargain away the rights of Sovereignty which are not theirs to bargain with.
The “recognised” convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty is typical of “English / British” tradition, a bold and obnoxious assertion of fact and hubris, which gets it’s way largely through bluster, bribery, and coercion, but comes unstuck when finally confronted with the occasional rule of law in the small print, provided of course someone has the guts and tenacity to stand their ground and defy the tyranny.
It is that insubordinate defiance that Scotland needs to rediscover, and discover it right now.
For gods sake Scotland, do not trust to find it in the likes of Nicola Sturgeon, who capitulated like a packet of crisps over Brexit, and “apparently” doesn’t know the Constitution of the Scottish Nation.
Breeks says:
26 May, 2022 at 4:53 am
Scotland in this “Union” is the proverbial square peg hammered into a round hole. It doesn’t fit, never did, and yes the Constitution is the heart of it.
The Union, jeezo, it’s a soup and a half, which never tires of quoting English Constitutional doctrine dating before the Union, but follows the doctrine of the divine right of kings.
But that essentially colonial doctrine simply doesn’t wash in Scotland, for the simple reason sovereignty has never been the preserve of the monarch. Scotland’s Monarchy has always been conditional, because the Monarch is as Christine Grahame neatly put it, “on parole”
—
I’d use the term on licence wrt the monarchy in Scotland, given the Claim of Right Act 1689 set out explicit t&cs…Colloquially, ‘The Firm’ hold the franchise for Scotland.
Wrt to England’s ‘government by convention/Magna Carta/Henry VIII powers/Street party bollox approach’, some of it is historically applicable to the person on the Clapham omnibus…expect the power now lies with their MP in Parliament…we in Scotland retain all our powers at all times. We can challenge the UK Parliament in Court of Session without the approval of Parliament, nor can it stop us. The English don’t like them apples, but it’s how the laws of the union have been since 1707.
If any alert readers want further proof of the blatant disinformation peddled by UK Parliament et al. wrt constitutiuonal law, I present an archive to parliament dot uk about the Act of Settlement 1701 (which is the same kind of thing as the Claim of Right 1689 wrt Protestant Succession.)
https://archive.ph/vDz7l
Below is the opening paragraph.
“The Act of Settlement was passed in 1701, reinforcing the Bill of Rights agreed by William and Mary in 1689. The main aim of this legislation was to ensure a Protestant succession to the English throne. In 1707, as a result of the Act of Union, this Act was extended to Scotland. (Was it, aye?) ”
Bill of Rights 1689 does not have effect in Scotland, neither does Act of Settlement 1701.
They are recognised as being ‘the human/crown rights of England’, they do not extend beyond the hard border between Scots law and England.
They lie to the world. England should be embarrassed. Scotland should turn its back on that evident level of wilful ignorance.
@Breastplate says 25 May, 2022 at 2:17 pm
Thanks for your response.
“we don’t need politicians to be good or bad at their job but what we need is honesty and integrity”
Sorry, but I can’t really think of any employment where being bad at your job is to be encouraged or even tolerated, other than perhaps concentration camp guard.
“it’s our job to tell the politicians what we want (not the other way round) and their job to implement it”
That assumes a remarkable uniformity of opinions amongst the voters. Every politician has to deal with a range of wants covering the spectrum of views from the extreme left to the extreme right. I would argue that it is the job of politicians to mediate the range of demands placed on the state and choose the most advantageous mean, or probably the least disadvantageous. Unsurprisingly, virtually nobody is pleased as a result. But that’s a sure-fire way of identifying lack of bias.
“However, if I became a politician tomorrow, I would be a damned sight better than 99% of them”
So stand for office, Breastplate! Seriously, if you are confident you have what it takes.
“Other than lining their pockets, politics should be a vocational job with average pay plus expenses and limits on outside financial interests in my opinion”
Hmmm, it mostly already is. Few politicians make much whilst in office. It is once they leave office that the real opportunities arise. And that just makes the useless politicians entrench themselves further, because they know that once out of office, it’s the dole for them.
Bottom line, Breastplate, I think politics is a whole lot harder than it looks.
@Republicofscotland says 25 May, 2022 at 2:54 pm
“I’ll be utterly amazed if anyone (associated with the SNP) especially the betrayer is held accountable for any deaths from Covid 19 in this inquiry”
To be fair, given that Covid is a genetically-modified experimental virus that escaped from a poorly managed facility in Wuhan, China, whose escape was covered up by the Chinese regime for the first crucial month during which it spread widely within China, that China further took no steps to reduce international travel while the virus was establishing itself internationally, and that the Chinese regime persecuted and prosecuted those brave Chinese who attempted to discuss and publicise what was going on, I intend to cut the FM some slack.
NS has plenty of other stuff to answer for. The blame for Covid needs to be laid squarely at the door of those who started it.
“The Scots were not invited to join the treaty of the union on purpose, in case they voted the wrong way,
That tells you all you need to know.
We need to gather together a Sovereign Scottish people’s Assembly. quickly And have Focus.”
James Che @3.34pm.
Agreed James, somehow most Scots have been brainwashed into believing that Westminster (England) must play its part on Scotland dissolving this rancid union, in reality Westminster has no power over Scotland if the people of Scotland wish it so.
It doesn’t help that our FM is a treacherous b*stard and is reinforcing the lie that we need England’s permission to ditch this ball and chain union. The matter is further compounded by the Britnat media spewing out that Scots must get approval from Westminster first, House Jocks with their noses in the unionist trough, and the knuckledraggers who are so filled with hatred for anything other than the queen and the union, who’ve had it drummed into them as kids that they must be British first and foremost.
The people of Scotland are sovereign not England not Westminster and certainly not the crown, no English document can bind Scotland to this union forever, once enough Scots realise this or we have a strong independence minded FM in power the penny will drop.
It was pleasing to note that a few posters dipped their toes in the water and started to open a discussion about what REALLY matters re the possibilities of a successful Independent Scotland.
MONEY/CURRENCY.
As John Main correctly pointed out if ANY particular Independence Party produces some accurate (as can be) financial projections for scrutiny, revealing that Scotland would be financially secure, the populace would be shoving each other out of the way to vote for that party. Yet, for some reason nobody does! WHY?
Unfortunately this particular topic of debate did not last for too long before the usual suspects reverted to the old boring favourites that only themselves see any relevance in. 300 year old treaties, Grand Scottish Assembly, Sovereignty, Colonialism etc etc. I know that the work gone into producing the screeds of info is time consuming but ultimately this will all be fruitless. Maybe some people should try and look forward instead of backwards all the time! NOTHING IN SCOTLAND IS EVER GOING TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF SOME FAULTS IN AN ANCIENT TREATY. To think otherwise is for the romantics, the dreamers and the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade.
With the shit show currently ongoing in Westminster, which will only get worse, for the man in the street with Bunter and his sycophants in charge, Scotland simply has to get out.
However I see no point in doing so if we are all going to be worse off financially, socially and security wise.
The SNP, like the Tories treat as with disdain
Where is the debate about money, currency, pensions, split of UK assets and liabilities prior to any Independence referendum? Do the romantics amongst us simply accept that ‘all will be fine’? Does anybody seriously think that the current SNP/Loons administration have the business/financial/economic acumen to even enter into that debate?
Difficult times ahead-as if we did not know that already!
Somebody, anybody SHOW US THE MONEY and the REAL debate can get started.
roll up roll up
Monkey Pox Vax now available
This dangerous contagion is spreading world wide and as many as 200 people have now been infected .
PS estimated world population 7.9 BILLION
Why is this featuring on many News websites , “FEAR” the same shite that shut down economies worldwide for the last 2 years and was at the end of the day no worse than the FLU .
It worked before and has done since man started fking up the planet ,the ones who use it as a weapon are having a ball watching the mugs comply with stupid dogma and regulations, visit any town centre today and you can see them masked and jabbed up to the eyeballs trusting a Government and Chemical Industry that constantly tell lies and live on fear .
FEAR works wonders it turns normal people into braindead fkn idiots .
Chas says:
26 May, 2022 at 10:31 am
It was pleasing to note that a few posters dipped their toes in the water and started to open a discussion about what REALLY matters re the possibilities of a successful Independent Scotland.
MONEY/CURRENCY.
Difficult times ahead-as if we did not know that already!
Somebody, anybody SHOW US THE MONEY and the REAL debate can get started.
—-
Since you asked, I’m delighted to answer the call…
Currency/Cash/The economy
What is the value of the economy of Scotland?
Simply put – Bank balances, orders placed and invoices issued, goods for sale, taxes due, state assets, other ‘things’ of monetary value…an exact figure is possible to calculate but the concept is the thing that needs expanded.
cash/currency of a new variety would still be a guarantee of payment…GBP as our bank balances are now bought by Central Bank in exchange for ‘Smackeroonies’ would mean foreign reserves from day 1 to the value of every £GBP ‘on the books’ in Scotland. A massive figure.
All trade deals now in place would roll over automatically.
WTO rules would protect the price of imported goods regardless as a ‘temporary measure’, so the risk there is negated.
Our economy will expand and contract relative to Government spending…consumer spending largely depends on jobs this creates/maintains. Debt creation isn’t always needed if the circular economy allows the tax base to grow organically rather than through statute as a panic measure, as that fuels inflation.
There’s no limit to a Government’s credit at the CB it owns, to spend on infrastructure…to create jobs…homes…opportunities…sophistry from those with a vested interest is just that. Designed to scare the impressionable.
As we’re basing the discussion around Scotland and independence, it is crucial to state that the Union with England Act 1707 will *be repealed*, but it remains extant and defines the terms & conditions of the union itself, with clear references to currency, debt, tax & duties, Scotland’s Treasury, the historic rights of the Scots, treaties with foreign powers and institutions, and the limited sovereignty of the Crown. Real facts for the real debate.
@Scott 2:12am
I have explained what is happening on June 10th several times now. And at the risk of repeating myself and testing the patience of other readers, here we go again. The Scotsman raised a case with the Information Commissioner under a FOI. It was to obtain the legal advice given to the Scottish Government on holding an Independence Referendum. The ICO largely upheld the Scotsman case. Decision 048/2022 outlines the rationale. The Scottish Government have until June 10th to respond at the Court of Session with a ‘point in law’ if they want to contest the ICO decision. This is a very significant political and legal development. If like me you are fed up with the Independence carrot being abused prior to every election. My information is the Scot Gov are going to contest the decision. If this is not clear enough for you I am afraid you will have to conduct your own research. I am waiting for June the 10th.
George Ferguson says:
26 May, 2022 at 11:51 am
If like me you are fed up with the Independence carrot being abused prior to every election. My information is the Scot Gov are going to contest the decision. If this is not clear enough for you I am afraid you will have to conduct your own research. I am waiting for June the 10th.
—
I’ll save you the wait.
June 10th won’t bring finality, merely technical stasis.
But for sure, the people of Scotland can already ‘bypass the legislatures’ by petitioning the Monarch directly.
Claim of Right Act 1689 trumps Scotland Act Section 30 bollocks.
Chas says:
MONEY/CURRENCY.
“As John Main [“LOL” (my insert)] correctly pointed out if ANY particular Independence Party produces some accurate (as can be) financial projections for scrutiny, revealing that Scotland would be financially secure, the populace would be shoving each other out of the way to vote for that party. Yet, for some reason nobody does! WHY?”
You can’t produce a budget when the other side in negotiations refuses to negotiate a la David Cameron.
GERS is mince and everybody (except the lied-to Scots) knows it.
It is blindingly fecking obvious that we would be so much better off out of this rancid “union”, it’s tragic that so many can’t or won’t see it. All the evidence is there (and here, actually, over the last 8 or so years) for those that can bother their arse to look for it.
Reading some of the headlines in what the U.K. pretends are newspapers.
The Daily Hail are asking if this is all we are bothered about?
A picture of a lying, partying elitist sharing a case full of booze with friends and colleagues
against the very laws he set and the demands of the health care specialists.
Why wouldn’t you be happy to see weekly Downing St Parties when you can’t be with dying loved ones, attend funerals, visit your family.
The Glasgow Times waits until page 16 to mention Boris on a half page.
Bojo’s criminal immortal circus with the same sized spread as a car accident where no one was harmed.
No sign of the corrupt cover up Met giving a reason to why Boris with drink in his had toasting in a room full of others isn’t considered to be at an illegal party.
They did say that they couldn’t comment as ONE of those at this party was fined and they cannot name the person?
Could anyone explain how you fine one person for at a party while the other 9 were not?
Having a party on your own was allowed?
The Met now make the Key Stone Cops look as straight as Ben Turpin’s eyes!
James says:
26 May, 2022 at 12:51 pm
You can’t produce a budget when the other side in negotiations refuses to negotiate a la David Cameron.
—
You can a bit.
The size/value of Scotland’s economy is as now defined.
Swap GBP for ScoP…GBP Reserves for CB, equivalent to whole economy (lolz)
Currency equivalence can be maintained because all trade terms will roll over seamlessly.
New currency can peg to GBP naturally and lawfully (lolz again) and find its own level against all others as trade evolves. If no Bonds held abroad, no risk of debt default. None need be created to kick-start anything and none assigned from UK.
The economics are simple.
Scotland is debt free and cash rich.
@Effigy says 26 May, 2022 at 2:05 pm
“The Glasgow Times waits until page 16 to mention Boris on a half page.
Bojo’s criminal immortal circus with the same sized spread as a car accident where no one was harmed”
To be fair, nobody was harmed at any of the parties either.
I get it, Effigy, you hate Boris.
But the reality is, Scotland can’t get to independence fuelled only by hatred of Boris. He’ll be gone soon enough, and if that is all you are relying on to get us Indy, then you will be back to square 1.
“The 88th SNP conference will be held at The Event Complex Aberdeen from October 8-10.”
The above conference will be policed from top to bottom moreso than a Scientology conference, questions on a Plan B and an exact date for the indyref next year will not be permitted.
The membership especially those who attend this conference need to speak up and make sure their voices are heard.
So the Betrayer changed her mind on having a windfall tax (the SNP were against it) on wealthy power companies just as the English Tories bowed to pressure to help those feeling the pinch, coincidence?
Of course if Sturgeon the betrayer had held the indyref post Brexit Scotland would more than likely have become independent and energy policy would have came to Holyrood, and we could’ve mitigated the economic onslaught that’s set to reek havoc not just in Scotland but across the UK. But no this treacherous rat that sits in Bute House sold Scotland out.
Meanwhile all the SNP MP’s are coming out the woodwork in a told you so manner, finger pointing at the English Tories and blaming them for not acting earlier as if its their fault Scotland’s in the state its in right now, we know what Westminster is, and what to expect from it, but we could’ve dumped Westminster and the union years ago but for the SNP, we need to focus on holding the betrayer and her party to account, all that’s happens to Scotland post Brexit lies squarely at the feet of that turncoat rat that now shuffles about Bute House, we see you, and know what you are.
As people struggle to get to and from work due to the rail strike, the First Minister and her colleagues Green as well, have 28 chauffeur-driven cars, costing £1m, to get into and from their work.
Y’know looking across my home town today, Glasgow, Scotland’s largest city, the amount of poverty and degradation has never been higher since Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots took office as FM. The SNP under Sturgeon’s tenure has been very bad for my home town, and I’d imagine this has been replicated across the whole of Scotland albeit wealthy areas aside.
Poverty, drug deaths, education, waiting times at A&E, doctor and dentist appointments all up or longer waiting times apply since the betrayer took office. However Sturgeon and her clique will not need to worry about heating or eating this Winter nor will they need to worry about getting a train to and from work as they are chauffer driven at our expense.
Republicofscotland…
Sturgeon’s SNP have adopted the mentality and behaviour of an arsonist, who repeatedly sets his house alight then, having sought to blame someone else, hangs out the upper bedroom window to berate the fire brigade for a) having taken so long to arrive, and for b) having only sent a single appliance.
It used to be the false Yoon narrative that wee Scotland was simply shit at everything and that mother England was always there to pick up its mess.
Sturgeon etc. are providing multiple excuses, on a near daily basis, for the Yoons to keep peddling such lies – to the extent that you’d be forgiven for thinking that the SNP were doing it deliberately…
John Main,
“ Sorry, but I can’t really think of any employment where being bad at your job is to be encouraged or even tolerated,…”
Unfortunately John, this is exactly what we do.
We encourage them and tolerate them through mass apathy.
My opinion is that they are shit at their job as representatives of the people, if you believe they’re doing a sterling job, a mediocre job or slightly better than shit job, that is your entitlement.
We need to disagree once more on how difficult the job is, my opinion is that it’s a simple job of following instructions given to them by the majority of the people, it is not their job to please or appease everyone.
If they believe the majority is wrong, they are entitled to convince people to change their minds but not arbitrarily go against the Will of the People, whether they agree with it or not. It is not their job to be the conscience of the People.
It’s a democracy (or supposed to be). Yes, of course the majority can be morally or ethically wrong (history is littered with the majority getting it wrong) and it may be unpalatable for the minority but that’s the name of the game, people need to be better educated or informed but unfortunately we’re not.
Having said that, the reality is we aren’t really in a democracy though, are we?
It’s a plutocracy and has been for some time, from that perspective the politicians are doing a fantastic job for their masters and are well rewarded for it, in and out of office.
So yes, I believe anybody with integrity would do a better job than the bunch of corrupt bottom feeders we have in office.
That’s why there is no room for honest people in government, they would be incapable of operating or being allowed to operate in our current political climate.
So no, I won’t be shedding a tear for any politicians who think they have a hard job, they are simply parasitical tools of the Establishment that see ordinary folk as livestock and make sure we travel through life in cattle class.
You are perfectly entitled to disagree.
John Main,
What an Ace in the pack Boris is.
SNP just don’t seem how to play it.
I can give a list of Boris’ lies on a roll of wallpaper
But how special it is to have the most corrupt and horrific Tory party who have never voted for in 70 years ruling over us.
To have a PM quotes as calling Scots a verminous race.
Scots he would put in a ghetto and eliminate.
Why doesn’t every person in Scotland know this and who could accept this as the best we can do, our future.
Sure Boris will move on after proving he can do anything he likes any time but do we move on Reese Mogg ruling over us.
England votes Tory as they like to hear the bull shite they are superior and are world leaders.
Robert Knight 4pm.
Sturgeon is causing untold damage to Scotland by keeping us tied to this union, not only that her and her party’s behaviour has sullied Scotland’s reputation. It used to be the Britnat parties branch offices were the biggest threat to Scotland and Scottish independence, now we can add the SNP and the Greens to that list.
I used to read with disdain Britnat MSPs articles in Britnat newsrags and think that its all lies, but under Sturgeon’s woeful tenure as FM, we know that she and her clique have been up to no good, so now when I read a story in the Herald or Scotsman two newsrags I used to take with a pinch of salt, I now find myself thinking that whatever they are writing about that I couldn’t put it past this current SNP government.
Worse still not one, not bloody one, SNP MSP has stood up and spilled the beans as to what’s actually going on in the SNP, its such a tight ran ship, a closed shop so to speak, that every single one of them at Holyrood has kept their heads down and their mouths shut which I find utterly disgraceful.
If I were in charge I’d sack the bloody lot of them, for they must either be onboard with the machinations of their party, or they are protecting their own interests, for Christ sake even some Tory MPs at Westminster have had the guts to call for the resignation of Johnson, what does that say about the SNP MSPs at Holyrood.
How f*ckin petty can the unionists (and as I said in my previous comment, I wouldn’t put it past thee SNP to be involved as well after what they did to Salmond) Aberdeeen council get, this is a prime example of how completely f*cked up Scotland is when those Scots who want a foreign nation to hold sway over Scotland, bitch about a f*ckin Yes sign in Alex Salmond’s garden.
Anyway Salmond can now keep his Yes sign in his garden, after those cretins at Aberdeen council backed down, Jesus f*uck, Scotland is surely circling the plughole, and Salmond will continue to be a leper in the foreign media’s eye and in the eyes of the SNP whilst Sturgeon holds the reins.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20168555.alex-salmond-allowed-keep-yes-sign-garden-aberdeenshire-council-decision%2F
Effigy says:26 May, 2022 at 4:56 pm
But how special it is to have the most corrupt and horrific Tory party who have never voted for in 70 years ruling over us.
Oh FFS, get real!
Worse than Thatcher who destroyed entire communities? Worse than “Black Monday” and “Back To Basics” Major? Worse than “Knighthoods for Donations” Cameron? Worse than “[Ok, how fking long do you have?]” Tinfoil Theresa, the pound shop Thatcher – twice the malice and a tenth of the ability?
Even the “wet” Toryism of Heath or Sir Alec Douglas Home knocks BoJo’s gang for six when it comes to dodgy practices – the latter, may I remind you coming into being when MacMillan was forced to chuck it after the Profumo Scandal and old Skullhead did his best to continue covering the worst of that business up – consider THAT before you start chucking the “corrupt” or “horrific” cards about.
Guardianistas always like to overdue the emotive hyperbole like they’re still members of the Socialist Workers Party back in art school, but all it does is deflect from any serious points they may make.
@Breastplate says 26 May, 2022 at 4:08 pm
Years ago, I had an idea for something I thought might be called the Majority party.
A Majority MSP, if elected, sits in her office with a couple of helpers, armed with an up-to-date electoral roll for her constituency.
As each vote at Holyrood comes up, the MSP decides how she intends to vote. Then, the helpers get to work. 100 random names are selected from the electoral register, and each one is called. The conversation goes something like this:
“Hello, I represent your MSP. A vote on [subject] is coming up, and your MSP would prefer to vote [in favour/against]. What is your preference?”
All of those constituents in favour are totalled.
All of those constituents against are totalled.
For those who are undecided, or don’t care, they are added to the MSP’s preference.
Anybody who cannot be contacted is discarded and a new name is randomly chosen.
At the end of the above, the MSP is constitutionally bound to vote in accordance with the majority of the 100 constituents polled, unless there is an exact 50-50 split, in which case her vote decides.
In this way, a Majority party MSP ALWAYS does what the majority of her constituents demand, and a Majority party administration ALWAYS does what the majority of the country wants.
As to whether this would provide popular and effective government, or just a fickle, transient mess of contradictory, short-term legislation, I have no idea. But it would be unarguably what the people want. Seems to me that once the Majority party got power, Scotland would inevitably become a one-party state, as there would be no need whatsoever for an opposition. Unless it were to stand on a promise to reduce democracy!
The subject of economics on here recently has been interesting although a pain where a number of posts I had made on the subject was put into moderation.
In the comments section of the Herald the other day on a story about independence there was comments that in an independent Scotland the most vulnerable would not survive. In the comments here, the same tired trope that an Independent Scotland would be an economic basket case.
Yes, Scotland like most Western countries have demographic problems with an older population and yes there are problems specific to our economy that needs addressed but we are a first world country with a first world infrastructure. There is no way that an independent Scotland wouldn’t flourish.
An example of this is given by of all organisations, the BBC:
Scottish independence: Moody’s predicts Scotland would get an ‘A’ credit rating
Of course, the BBC tells the truth by smears it in it’s usual weasely way.
An independent Scotland would have a Aa1 credit rating. Constrast that with Italy who has a Baa3 rating as per link:
List of countries by credit rating
It doesn’t mean that an independent Scotland would be an economic powerhouse but it does mean that the lights won’t go out.
Regardless of who would get elected in an independent Scotland, their first priority will be the economy and if they don’t provide stability and trust in the Scottish economy then they will be out.
@Mark Boyle 8:19
You forgot Suez.
@PacMan says 26 May, 2022 at 9:27 pm
I generally agree with most of what you wrote there, but I have to ask if you get out and about much when you came up with this:
“we are a first world country with a first world infrastructure”
I have just checked. The motorway network stopped at Perth in 1980 and has not moved one meter further north since then.
Inverness may finally have a dual-carriageway link to the south by 2025. There are no plans that I know of for a modern “first-world” link east to Aberdeen.
Many people living in rural locations will die before they ever get a “first-world” broadband connection. Ditto, a daily usable bus service.
You get my drift, I am sure.
We have the potential to be a first world country. To get there, we will have to build a first world infrastructure.
@ John Main
Ah, the usual I wholeheartedly agree with what you say but…
You can pick out the same faults with any country including the one that has the largest economy, the USA.
The point I’m making is that we are first world country with a first world infrastructure and yes, there are problems in our economy that needs rectified but our country isn’t as bad as all the doomsayers like to paint us as, including you.
An independent Scotland can and will succeed.
I’m sure you will come back with a lot of other examples of how bad our country is which can be equally applied to any other country that is moderately successful.
You get my drift, I am sure.
BTW, how long before Andy pops up?
John Main says:
26 May, 2022 at 9:26 pm
@Breastplate says 26 May, 2022 at 4:08 pm
Years ago, I had an idea for something I thought might be called the Majority party.
As to whether this would provide popular and effective government, or just a fickle, transient mess of contradictory, short-term legislation, I have no idea. But it would be unarguably what the people want.
Seems to me that once the Majority party got power, Scotland would inevitably become a one-party state, as there would be no need whatsoever for an opposition. Unless it were to stand on a promise to reduce democracy!
—-
Scotland should be a one party state…we collectively hold sovereignty, so the ayes/noes should come from the private citizens using a legislature formed jury-selection style…overseen by civil Courts and the Lord Lyon. (with Lord Advocate representing us all, as is the rule. Head prosecutor, but also chief defender of individual rights. You don’t see that in the papers or on the news)
‘Separation of powers’ is supposed to mean obligation to faith/freemasonry/lobbyists etc does not influence formation of legislation…party politics is a scam.
@PacMan says 26 May, 2022 at 10:17 pm
“Ah, the usual I wholeheartedly agree with what you say but…”
Hmmm, let me check. Just as I thought, here is what I wrote:
“I generally agree with most of what you wrote there … ”
Shame, PacMan, you almost had me convinced you had the basic comprehension of the written language to be worth arguing with. Your lesson for today, if you are interested in learning, is to understand the difference between “generally agree” and “wholeheartedly agree”. Take your time.
Get back to us and let us know if precision of meaning is beyond you. Alternatively, if you just like to lie so you can stir things up, that works on here too. TBH, it’s usually more fun.
Andy might pop up to confirm that the motorway network stopped at Perth in 1980 and has not moved one meter further north since then. Maybes he will have his own view as to whether that fairly represents “first world infrastructure” to the sheep shaggers who eke out their miserable existences far, far away from Glasgow and Edinburgh
But I guess Scotland looks very first-world to the inhabitants of Morningside and Bearsden, eh PacMan?
John Main says:
26 May, 2022 at 9:26 pm
@Breastplate says 26 May, 2022 at 4:08 pm
Years ago, I had an idea for something I thought might be called the Majority party.
If you want to be really cynical, stand in certain parts of Scotland as the Celtic Party or Rangers Party candidate and I guaranteed you’d get in with over 50% of the vote.
@ John Main
I’m sure your ‘buddy’ Andy will pop up soon to put Scotland down.
I’d love to chat further but you are boring me.
John Main says:
26 May, 2022 at 10:38 pm
@PacMan says 26 May, 2022 at 10:17 pm
Shame, PacMan, you almost had me convinced you had the basic comprehension of the written language to be worth arguing with.
Get back to us and let us know if precision of meaning is beyond you.
Andy might pop up to confirm that the motorway network stopped at Perth in 1980 and has not moved one meter further north since then. Maybes he will have his own view as to whether that fairly represents “first world infrastructure”
—-
Comedy hour is a moveable feast too.
Third World was a term coined in the 50s that was applied to ‘developing nations’ not considered to be ‘Capitalist or Communist’, those First/Second worlds far apart.
@ Scott
The individual was complaining about posters in here talking about things that happened 300 years ago and wanted to talk about things that matter now like the economy.
While I was on the subject, I tried to engage him and all I got was the usual too wee, too poor, too stupid nonsense that we’ve been hearing from the unionists since time memorial.
I had tried to engage with Tweedle dee Andy and now I have engaged with Tweedle dumb John. It’s a pointless exercise as I got more sense talking to a wall.
Pacman
Too wee-No
Too poor-The jury is out
Too stupid-Look at some of the posts on here and then decide
I would have thought that he ‘economy’ of an Independent Scotland would be something worth discussing. No politician seems able to do so or provide any figures for debate. One recent poster says the GERS figures, the ones produced by the Scottish Government, are mince. He states ‘everybody knows that’ yet is unable to say why!
He then states ‘It is blindingly fecking obvious that we would be so much better off out of this rancid “union”, it’s tragic that so many can’t or won’t see it. All the evidence is there (and here, actually, over the last 8 or so years) for those that can bother their arse to look for it’. He might be right but I have not seen any evidence to convince the majority of Scots, who currently DO NOT want Independence, to switch? Am I looking in the wrong places? Sadly he is another who will happily accept ‘It will be fine’!
Pacman-your sole bit of ‘evidence’ that an Independent Scotland would flourish, I assume you mean economically, is a Moody’s PREDICTION of an Independent Scotland’s credit rating from 2014. I could be wrong but I think a lot has happened in the past 8 years. Has Sturgeon’s SNP made Scotland better, economically or otherwise?
I readily accept that not everyone has a grasp of economics/finance but most people just skirt around the subject and seem willing to stick their heads in the sand. To my mind this has more relevance to Scotland today than 300 year old treaties. Of course…………I could be wrong!
Chas,
read any of the good Revs articles on GERS.
They are mince, because the Auditor says so on page 1.
I’d need to double check the correct figure but ~90% of the figures in it are estimates.
I fully agree with your scepticism of NSNP & their ability to run anything let alone a complex economy.
You don’t need to go back 300 years to find the back up for GERS being mince.
Economics is about choice, just now the Scottish admin (not a Government) have insufficient options to shape the economy, they do not have access to the raw data to be able to produce their own reports. It would be identical to GERS, a series of predictions.
If you want serious economic thinking pop over to Robin McAlpiens blog or engage Richard Murphy & his comments section.
Hope this is taken how it was intended, to be helpful.
Ahh, but when Scottish school children are NOT to be shown pictures of Scots people wearing kilts in Scotland.
And BJ wants to exterminate Scots and put them in Ghetto’s
And when our younger generation have been forced to immigrate
When Scotland’s sovereign people were deliberately was not asked to join the treaty of union.
What do you think is happening.
@PacMan says 27 May, 2022 at 7:53 am
“I got more sense talking to a wall”
I bet you did! Could anybody else hear the wall, or was it just you?
I would also wager you were drinking an ice-cold bottle of your signature Cuban beer at the time this was going on.
@Chas 10:20
You could be mostly right!
Convincingly demonstrate to anybody that they will be better off by doing something simple and easy and the standard response is “Great, let’s do it. Now, or preferably yesterday”.
Hard to imagine anything more simple and easy than rolling up to a polling booth near you and putting an X in the right place.
Ergo, it’s the convincing demonstration that we will be better off that is missing.
Chas.
I agree.
When it comes to the economic state of Scotland.
We have to do is remember whom has been running Scotland’s economics for the best part of all those 300 years.
The British Government.
And what an economic loss we have had over those 300 years,
Just to help with the Constitutional arithmetic;
Holyrood is a devolved assembly codified by Westminster legislation. Because it is codified as a region under domestic UK legislation, testing the legal boundaries of a devolved administration so codified, will fall under the jurisdiction of the UK’s Supreme Court, and judge it’s rights and conduct as the devolved assembly defined by the Scotland Act.
I can probably predict the result already, but that whole rigmarole creates a completely false horizon.
What Holyrood can or cannot do “might”, repeat might, be bound by the Scotland Act, but the restrictions and limits which a small ‘c’ constitution can place a devolved assembly have no bearing whatsoever on the big ‘C’ Constitution of the Scottish Nation. A Nation’s Constitution is an International affair, and Scotland’s Constitution unambiguously declares the Scottish people are sovereign.
If you own a car, it comes with a manual, and not obeying the manual can void your warranty. It remains however “just” an instruction book for your car. It does NOT take over your life, colonise your Nation, plunder your nation’s resources, put itself in government and subjugate your nation’s Sovereign Constitutional rights. It has no power beyond it’s strictly limited remit.
So it is with Holyrood. The Scotland Act “might”be Holyrood’s instruction book (so long as it isn’t contrary to Scots Law or doctrine), but it is not Scotland’s instruction book. Do not confuse the two.
Scotland’s ancient Constitutional Sovereignty is not compromised in any way by anything written in the 1998 Scotland Act. But, the devolved Holyrood assembly arguably might be… but even that’s not a given.
Why waste resources, time and energy tinkering with Holyrood’s domestic remit (where Westminster hold’s and deals all the cards), when any violation of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is quite properly a violation of International Law? The abuse of one nation’s sovereignty by another is NOT a domestic affair of internal politics.
“IF” you want to measure Holyrood’s potency under domestic internal legislation, then do so, but you must first determine that it’s domestic Scots Law legislation, because there’s no such thing as UK Law, and then challenge any interference with internal domestic Scots Law coming from a different country.
Secondly, you must surely question what capacity and jurisdiction the UK Supreme Court actually has to condone a devolved assembly’s attempt to curtail the rights and privileges of a sovereign Scottish people. Neither the UK Supreme Court nor Holyrood possess either the power or jurisdiction to truncate Scotland’s Constitutional Rights. They’re not sovereign, – we are.
It’s a paraphrase of what o’Brien said to Winston Smith as he was torturing him, in Nineteen Eighty-Four.
The nobles who sold out Scotland were never presented with that possibility and wouldn’t have cared less anyway – they were being rewarded. But no ordinary Scots were asked for their opinion.
Now that the behaviour of nobles (and those who represent us commoners) has been ‘democratised’ as far as it’s ever likely to be, the blame for our current predicament lies squarely with us. We’ve seen enough of mainstream politicos, of whatever stripe, to know that they cannot be trusted.
Sturgeon and her ilk have become an embarrassing distraction. Who, in their right mind, would want this shower of charlatans representing us, even if they did secure another referendum?
We have to find another way.
Does anyone know what has happened to Grousebeater’s Twitter?
I always look at it first thing in the morning and today I can’t get it at all.
For the MSM, And opposing politics to Scottish Sovereign independence.
It seems to boil down to solely economics or how well our country will do without the rest of the Uk.
For most of the independence people, it is not just about those issues.
It is about the people of Scotland feeling repressed
, Colonised,
enslaved to the British empire, oppressed,
having very little say in the direction of our country and the well being of our country men.
Constantly demoralised.
Lied to.
And cheated and deceived for 300 years or more.
You cannot quantify any of those emotions into GERS or any other statistic.
For statistics nor GERS were known or talked about by any Scot until recent history.
Do not get me wrong , It is good to talk these things over now.
But this is not what has kept the dream alive of freedom in the breastbone and heart of the Sovereign Scot for over 300 years.
It is being held against our will, being lied and cheated too for those 300 years,
Starting on day one, when the English Parliament decided deliberately not to ask the Sovereign Scots to join the treaty of the union,
but lied then to us for more than 300 years. Pretending that we were in that treaty By deceitfulness.
It is Taking control of our Laws, our Society, our Finances, our Country, our Resources, telling us how to dress and how to talk, and most of all our Freedom by lying.
@ Chas
For someone who is pointing out the stupidity of people posting on here, you are showing stupidity yourself.
Holyrood has limited economic powers which was no affect on the Scottish economy or able to drive it in any meaningful direction to increase growth. All that is reserved in Westminster.
The three estates did not sell Scotland for Gold,
They sold themselves for shiny sillar.
Scotland is not lost,
We are just beginning.
@ Margaret Eleftheriou at 12.12: ALL Twitter did that to me yesterday morning but later it was back. So try again!
Beginning to wake up to the realisation that the Scots were lied to in 1707,
By the admittance in the Uk Parliament site by themselves.
Maybe England is now thinking of withdrawing first from the UK so it does not have to reimburse Scots for the lies and resources it stole.
One to watch, maybe that was what brexit was actually for,
It could not withdraw from uk, while it was a signatory to the european treaty as a unitary UK.
Chas says:
27 May, 2022 at 10:20 am
Pacman
Too wee-No
Too poor-The jury is out
Too stupid-Look at some of the posts on here and then decide
I would have thought that he ‘economy’ of an Independent Scotland would be something worth discussing.
Don’t you worry yer little cotton socks. Just get that tax paid so I can get my giro’s. I’ve got swallying tae dae.
Is that clown Chas for real, we’ve been over the GERS figures in here multiple times 25 of the 26 figures are guesstimates, and even if by some miracle they were true they would show the failings of the union in Scotland, the GERS fantasy figures ONLY apply to Scotland as part of this union, they would mean nothing in an independent Scotland.
Mind you I’m surprised at Chas pushing this shite.
@CrapMan says 27 May, 2022 at 1:02 pm
“For someone who is pointing out the stupidity of people posting on here, you are showing stupidity yourself.
Holyrood has limited economic powers which was no affect on the Scottish economy or able to drive it in any meaningful direction to increase growth. All that is reserved in Westminster”
Whoops! Holyrood has the power to put up or cut income tax by 3p in the pound. Raise more tax in Scotland to invest in Scotland. Or. Tax less in Scotland to reward and incentivise entrepreneurs and new business employers.
Better spend less time talking to that wall, eh? It’s not helping.
This really relegates the Met Police to pathetic incompetent charlatans-
https://twitter.com/BBCLauraKT/status/1529557629588099074?s=20&t=3ta_rq7AJ00Me19Mjl7ltQ
Main.
Even the dugs in the street knew the tax powers before independence is a trap, but not eh, why am I not surprised.
https://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2016/11/30/dont-use-the-tax-responsibility-trap/
https://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2017/11/04/scottish-income-tax-it-was-always-a-trap/
Keith
I am well versed on economic/financial matters.
What you are effectively saying is that no one has the ability to prepare projected financials for an Independent Scotland, whether by design or default. I simply refuse to accept this and neither should any Scot. Sturgeon needs to get off her backside and obtain the necessary info. It is out there. Of course, maybe it suits hers and Westminster’s needs not to do this?
The question remains-How do you persuade any unconvinced Scot, currently the majority, to switch and vote for Independence? With the same words trotted out time and time again when the situation calls for it, ‘Independence just around the corner’, or realistic, honest financials? I know which I and most free thinking, educated Scots will choose.
Pacman
Scotland has sufficient economic levers to influence Scotland for the good as it stands. Yes, it does need more. Unfortunately a glance at the situation with hospitals, ferries, airports, smelters etc etc tells you a lot about how our current Government use them. Mind you with the ongoing ferry fiasco, placing the next order overseas is using existing levers but maybe in reverse. .
I repeat once again SHOW US THE MONEY. Or is that just stupid?
Sturgeon’s right hand rat Honest John (Swinney)the Teflon Don, opens a memorial to those who died of Covid in Scotland.
Lets remember that Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots was okay with sending folk from hospitals to carehomes, some had Covid, some were not checked for Covid, but we know Covid ran riot in the carehomes.
The Memorial is situated in Pollok Country Park.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fnews%2F20169424.scotlands-covid-memorial-officially-opened-john-swinney%2F
“What you are effectively saying is that no one has the ability to prepare projected financials for an Independent Scotland, whether by design or default. I simply refuse to accept this and neither should any Scot. Sturgeon needs to get off her backside and obtain the necessary info.”
For the love of God are you completely thick Sturgeon doesn’t want independence, so a clear picture on just about anything to do with won’t become apparent.
“The question remains-How do you persuade any unconvinced Scot, currently the majority,”
Says you and the latest YouGov poll, a company founded and co-ran by Deep state operative Nadhim Zahawi.
There is no way the UK govt would ever let the scotgov do anything which was economically advantageous to it and disadvantaged England; imagine if exciting international projects and foreign money was coming to Scotland and not the “golden triangle” – what do you think would happen? Anything truly valuable goes down South – this is why Scotland gets “allowed” to have a little biotech and video games. You are not going to see a hyperloop, a spaceport, etc. They get anything sexy.
Remember the “carbon capture” plan – they moved that to North East England, and then cancelled it.
Another reason for independence, whatever you do has the seeds of its own downfall; if Scotland does better than England, then the English will want it, so pressure on Westminster – the Anglo public have long ago swallowed the nonsense of Scots as indulged subsidy junkies living off their taxes … so things like no tuition fees, even free prescriptions rankle; this is small potatoes but as much as you can get away with.
Remember Foulkes bizarre rant about the SNP “deliberately” trying to make public services in Scotland better (than in England) … isn’t that their job, George?! What you saying?
As for the borrowing powers – another trap – you will run up a debt, go bust, then come crawling to the UK for a bailout.
Maybe Scotland should levy its own hydrocarbon windfall tax on all that is extracted in its waters? Oh wait.
Any increase in income tax is a political trap; if you need more taxes you get if from other places.
Most arguments about taxation are irrelevant as – the rich don’t pay income tax, they incorporate and if you are clever enough, setup in a tax haven, so you pay nothing. Or with the skill of a good accountant we can do “hollywood accounting” which is – nothing you ever do makes a profit, so you don’t pay tax on it. I don’t think Amazon made actual profits, until recently.
The general public are entirely ignorant of money matters and it is quite deliberate.
GERS does not deal with a hypothetical independent country, it is a bunch of made up nonsense, deliberately created to make indy look bad; Ian Lang even admitted it.
THIS IS ALL LIKE DEJA VU MEETS GROUNDHOG DAY ALL OVER AGAIN.
Chas,
Its funny that you hold Scotland to account for the future economy.
Brexit is a fuk up economically.
Food shortages, and supplies.with
Deals the other side of the world for transportation,
Dodgy borders in Ireland due to brexit
Financial crash looming.
People without decent payed work.
Bank of England claiming armageddon around the corner.
NHS almost gone.
Pensions pinched from women.
And Rushi whatshisname giving tax breaks to the rich.
Fuel shortages.
Highest energy prices for years on house holds and the poor.
Thats enough To make any Scot throw caution to the wind,
And go for independence,
Because we probable could not do that downward turn to the economy in less we took evening classes from Westminster.
Whether to laugh or cry…
https://archive.ph/0weHF
Quote: He died in April 2020 aged 104 after he contracted Covid in a care home.
Pollock park will be renamed Bollox park, an SNP official blubbed, in sincere recognition of the Zeitgeist.
Ay, it’s a hard life right enough!
If the SNP push using sterling they are being played. A Scottish government would need to borrow in sterling and Westminster control the interest rate and the amount you can borrow. The commercial market would be even worse. This route would spell economic disaster. We have to have our own currency. Other countries have done it in 6 to 18 months so so can we.
If the SNP propose using sterling they are being played. If we use sterling we have to borrow in sterling and Westminster co trol the amount you can borrow and the interest rate. International and commercial markets would be even worse. Othe countries have set up a new currency in 6 to 18 months. There is no excuse. Anyone who says sterling is bullshitting
My my my the britnat shills are fair plucking up the courage and emerging from their underground caves to fire heaps of the too wee too poor too stupid insults about, Scotland is so SHITE and the inhabitants are so dense that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Scotland to survive and flourish
Other countries with a fraction of our resources are kidding on they are successful they really urnay, they’ve applied for england to absorb them and run their economies for them because england is a world class LEADER in governance and finance, they’re just waiting on word back from RAAB and as soon as he can find them on a map he’ll give the go ahead
These britnats like to make out that Scotland is shite and if we ever get independence sturgeon will be responsible for governance in Scotland for EVER and as sturgeon has PROVEN that she is as inept and incapable as the rest of the unionist parties in governance that proves them right
It is a condition of their shiteyness claim that anyone who interacts with them is NOT ALLOWED or PERMITTED to highlight the LARGER SHITEYNESS of governance in england , THAT does NOT count , THAT is a fallacy , THAT is a lie , we are NOT talking about englands shiteyness we are concentrating on Scotland’s shiteyness and how Scotland is SHITE
Pleasing to see some debate about the important stuff. We are getting there slowly and surely. The more finance etc it is discussed the clearer things will become to many.
James Che
‘Its funny that you hold Scotland to account for the future economy’. What is that supposed to mean? Do you think we should hold Australia, Brazil or maybe Monaco to account for the future Scottish economy? Try again.
Shug
Correct……..ish. If we use sterling we would be tied into BoE interest rates but not restricted to the amount we could borrow. That would depend on lenders making a judgment call if we are worth the risk. I can see no other way than a transitional period, tied to Sterling, until we get our own currency up and running. A central Bank is also necessary. Exchange rates against other countries would depend on how International markets perceive how Scotland is performing backed up by it’s assets. It could be volatile. The ‘divvy up’ of UK assets and Liabilities is vital. I genuinely do not know if Scotland’s share of all UK assets would outweigh our share of Liabilities which would be circa £250 billion. Very difficult to place a total figure on total UK assets but someone will have to. I would not trust any figure Westminster came up with. Who would act for Scotland in any assessment? Take 5 minutes and think of the assets, Property, palaces, ships, planes armaments, embassies abroad, ‘intellectual’ rights, reserves, bank balances. There are hundreds more.
When/if Scotland splits from the UK we could have to be prepared for an economic backlash from England, who are Scotland’s bigger customer. Would England pay Scottish Old Age Pensions? If roles were reversed would Scotland pay England’s?
I repeat, Scotland has to convince more than 50% of the eligible voting population to want Independence. This cannot be done unless finances/economics are discussed openly and honestly.
Are the SNP/Loons capable of this?
Hopefully some food for thought!
Twathater
Who are the Britnat shills?
James Che. says:
27 May, 2022 at 11:04 am
Ahh, but when Scottish school children are NOT to be shown pictures of Scots people wearing kilts in Scotland.
Oh James! Isn’t it obvious why those poor innocents must be shielded from such things?
If a Scots birth assigned man is wearing a kilt, he is clearly failing to acknowledge she is actually a trans-woman and therefore the image is transphobic.
If a Scots birth assigned woman is wearing a kilt, she is clearly confirming to sexist stereotypes and is doubtless a TERF Nazi and thus the image is a Hate Crime.
Children MUST be protected from such filth so they have more time being enriched by drag queen and rainbow dildo butt monkey storytimes and everything else far more important to impressionable minds than silly old reading, writing and being able to do basic mental computations without fingers!
After all, where’s the next generation of doctors, scientists, engineers, etc. going to come from otherwise?
Chas says: 27 May, 2022 at 2:24 pm
I hope this isn’t like the one I had just posted where it went into moderation.
The question I have to ask you as you are well versed on economic/financial matters. Are you please prepare projected financials for yourself for the next 10 to 15 years?
Posing the question of economics that way, would you be satisfied if an independent Scotland would write into law criteria like for instance rigid spending plans that were forced on future Scottish governments for say the following 15 years after independence?
You are talking about the competence of the current SNP administration.
Are you saying that the SNP in it’s current form would survive in the cut throat environment of running a country just fresh in independence? They would be thrown out on their ear.
Otto @ 4.08
Laugh , def !
” He died in April 2020 aged 104 after he contracted Covid in a care home.”
Still had the best years of his life ahead of him too .Tragic
Does the memorial have a statue of St Nickel-arse , arms outstretched a-la the other * Blessed * One , overlooking , offering solace to the bereaved and sanctuary for the deceased ; for eternity ? ( Christ ! What a thought )
Elsewhere …..a new wheeze from the team that brought us …..fckn nuthin but serial calamity . A ” UK-Led ” bloque , in partnership with our new friends in the East + Turkey – Turkey ? hod oan , was that no the country whose inhabitants were going to come here in numbers too large to calculate , but were repelled at the gates by the gallant Knights of Brexit ? I imagine the US will be merely disinterested observers to this project . What could go wrong ?
Looking on the bright side , I’m confident Scotland , under the strong-handed stewardship of our First Lady , will be welcomed as kindred souls into this exciting new opportunity to fuck things up for more people ; faster , deeper , better
@Chas 6:40
Much to agree with in your post.
Regarding pensions, Rev Stu has already covered this to everybody’s satisfaction (including mine). Pension liabilities accrued by the UK exchequer cannot and are not “written off” when individuals go “abroad”. It’s a Ponzi scheme, sure, but it is perfectly reasonable and believable to expect that post-Indy, the pensions of those residing in Scotland will be safe.
Of course, the currency in which these pensions will be paid will be good old pounds with the Queens’s head on. Should Scotland have its own currency by then (or the Euro), then the money changers will extract their cut. ‘‘Twas ever thus.
@CrapMan 7:32 pm
Introductory Politics Basics course, Year 1, Term 1, Week 1, Lesson 1:
No government can bind its successors.
Not something you will learn talking to a wall. Maybes you need to expand your horizons.
Pacman
Where did I ever say that financials would have to be projected for 10/15 years? If a company applies to a Bank for a loan, generally the Bank will insist on 2/3 years projections amongst other things.. In the case of a Government, trying to persuade it’s populace to go Independent, do you not think it might be helpful to prepare some meaningful financial information to put before the public in order to convince them??
Equally where did I ever say ‘would you be satisfied if an independent Scotland would write into law criteria like for instance rigid spending plans that were forced on future Scottish governments for say the following 15 years after independence’?
Then we have ‘Are you saying that the SNP in it’s current form would survive in the cut throat environment of running a country just fresh in independence? They would be thrown out on their ear.’ Actually I am saying the exact opposite!
You should maybe try reading exactly what is said rather than what you somehow think is said!
At least you are entering the debate!
John Main
Re pensions. Do you trust Bunter and the clowns at Westminster? I don’t.
The last thing I want to do is sound negative but laws can be changed!
John Main says: 27 May, 2022 at 8:37 pm
Once in a generation vow?
You can’t even troll properly .
RALMFAO.
@ Chas
It doesn’t matter what genuine answer is given, you will find a fault with it and say yeah but…
With my reply, I tried to give a genuine answer. 10 to 15 years is a long term period for a country. Would holding future governments to an economic plan for a certain period which in effect would be the status quo give wavering doubters confidence towards independence?
IIRC, that is what new Labour did in their first term of office so would those who have doubts against independence be swayed by that?
For myself, it isn’t what I would want for an independent Scotland but I am just one person and if compromise is required to gain consensus for independence to happen then what is wrong with that?
I suggest you read what what you posting because that is exactly what you saying.
You are saying that the current SNP is incompetent, which I agree but in doing so, you are referring that an independent Scotland would be the same.
In a sense you are right but it wouldn’t happen not for long as the markets wouldn’t tolerate that level of incompetence. Responsibility is a price of running an independent country and they would be forced out by their own incompetence.
Chas.
Well you can hardly hold Scotland accountable for its downward trend the last 300 years.
Lost fishing fleets, ship building farming,oil, local industries etc,
Not to mention the Brexit effect,
Who do you want to blame Chas.?
And as an aside chas,
Have you checked UK parliament site.
The Scots are were deliberately not invited to join the treaty of the union in case they vote the wrong way.
We are officially not in the treaty of the union,
So what parts of Scotland assets do you think should be divvied up exactly.
Although I will concede with you and Shug we do need a separate currency.
I am wearing my “Proud Pedant” hat here, prompted by listening to both BBC Scotland and STV News.
A single adult female is a WOMAN, Pronounced WOOMAN. More than one of them is a group of WOMEN, pronounced WIMMEN.
Why do news broadcasters confuse the two? Why did their education of the English language let them down? Why do they refer to more than one woman as WOOMAN (singular)?
There was something else I was going to bring up but I’ve forgotten. Mea Culpa.
But, onnyhoo, we, as Scots, send around 65 Billion to Westminster and get around 35 Billion back, to finance Holyrood.
What could an independent Scotland do with the missing £30 Bilion?
Mark Boyle.
Ahh it is all beginning to make insane sense,
this “NO pictures of Scots in Scottish Kilts”
Good ole snp, and devolved government.
I am pretty sure NS and current Snp would not last a week.
I watch her busying herself in msm photo shots, shoulder to shoulder with people whom have had associations with Jeffery Epstein from clintons to bill gates and the build back better for the rich group.
That is bad enough.
But then dangle carrots to the independence for yes all these years,
Plus running Scotland into a trans gender world.
Next she will be passing laws telling teachers not to use the word “Scot’s” in the class room. because mr Swab does not believe in nations. Never mind kilts.
I doubt very much she would be allowed lead a new Scotland.
” What could an independent Scotland do with the missing £30 Bilion? ”
Weave it through our accounts ?
The question of how Scotland would * do * as an Independent nation is , I think , too hypothetical to answer ; too many dynamic elements – internal + external – in play , always, but particularly now , to make any plausible prediction .
We can be pretty sure though that if we remain Dependent we’re getting chibbed , big time , malkied by forces seen n unseen , or seen too late . Or , if we continue fighting amongst ourselves – albeit out ( mostly ) of utter frustration at the impasse the Movement is in , we’ll chib ourselves . Fatally .
I think the trouble is that a man in a kilt could be identifying as a woman in a tartan skirt and we would then be committing the terrible crime of misgendering the transwoman wearing a skirt as a man in a kilt.
Thanks for the smile Saffron Robe!
Why is there so much support for Alba on this site? The party failed to win any seats at the recent local government elections, attracting just 0.7% of first preference votes. Alba is dead in the water.
@daodao 8.09 am
I don’t think it’s particularly surprising that Alba has lots of support on this site given the fact that a lot of those posting broadly agree with WoS’ views on the state of the independence movement. You won’t find many SNP loyalists in here or friends of the Scottish Greens.
As for Alba’s recent electoral performance and its prospects I think writing them off is a mistake. Of course I would say that as a founder member of the party. You may be right and we may be stuck with the political parties we have, but the current SNP leadership is going to have to deliver on its promise of #indyref2 in 2023. When it fails to do so, people may be more open to voting for an alternative pro-independence party.
Setting up an alternative to the SNP was never likely to be an easy matter, or something that happened over night. Once it became obvious that the SNP wasn’t going to split, and that major figures like Joanna Cherry stayed inside the party, short term the only viable strategy for an entrant party is to build up its base.
Alba doesn’t need to overtake the SNP, it just needs to attract enough votes to hold the balance of power. If it can’t develop and realistically plan do that in time for the Holyrood elections in 2026 then we’re stuck with the same old same old.
Speaking about politically bankrupt and hopeless parties, Kevin McKenna on the SNP is worth a read in the Herald:
“An insidious system of patronage, seemingly inspired by proceedings at the court of Louis XIV, France’s sun king, operates at the heart of the SNP and all of it conducted by the First Minister’s husband Peter Murrell, the party’s grey eminence.
Verbal reports from dazed former members of the party’s ruling NEC resemble a script for the Muppet Show, minus the eloquence. So many cranks and shiftless performance artists have become aware that a historic opportunity exists for them in the Sturgeon administration to make the sort of money and attain a level of status that’s beyond them in the real world of work.
Once upon a time they were indulged as figures of fond amusement in the carnival atmosphere of the SNP conference floor. Now they get to dictate policy and occupy high rankings on party election lists. All they have to do is proclaim unswerving loyalty to the leader and be seen to attack those deemed to be suspect.
When these people get to run the big departments and have access to the shop till you’re asking for trouble. Finally, the Scottish public are glimpsing what lies beneath.”
https://archive.ph/8q7Ye#selection-1585.3-1601.173
Sara
Thank you. Got Grousebeater Twitter back this morning.
“Who are the Britnat shills?”
An eerie silence falls with tumbleweed passing and a gust of wind, as if they and wee don’t know who they are, the above is priceless.
@CrapMan 9:06 pm
Primary School arithmetic, 6 yo level.
2022 minus 15 is, anybody, anybody, that’s right … 2007.
Now can anybody remind us what has happened since 2007?
2008 – global financial crash
2016 – Brexit
2019 – global Covid pandemic
2022 – start of WW3
If you can tear yourself away from your wall for a moment, you could learn the derivation and application of the term “permacrisis”.
And you think any government can set a course, direction and a suite of policies and hold steady to it all for 15 years?
Get real.
@Repo 10:15
You self-Id-ing as “wee”?
Do you mean small, or pish?
What an odious bunch they are, though Martin Lewis does try to help folk with their bills. In my opinion its a sign of just low trustworthy politics is in the UK when this dross can stand for election in the UK.
“RUTH Davidson will join Tony Blair at an event rumoured to be the beginnings of a new centrist party led by the former prime minister.
Organisers are also reportedly “desperate” to get Emmanuel Macron to speak at the Future of Britain conference, fuelling speculation it could be a vehicle for the Labour grandee to make a return to politics.
The line-up will include former Scottish Tory leader Davidson as well as US economist Lawrence Summers, who served as Bill Clinton’s chief federal financial adviser, and MoneySavingExpert Martin Lewis”
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20171798.tony-blair-joined-ruth-davidson-sparking-new-party-speculation%2F
Flynn and his boss Sturgeon the betrayer know this and have done so for years, yet they persist in keeping Scotland in this union and giving its assets away to England which hurts Scots financially.
“An analysis from the House of Commons Library shows that 90% of UK oil and gas sales come from Scottish waters, as last counted in 2019. The SNP say this means £4.5 billion of the £5bn the UK Government estimates the levy will raise will come from Scotland.
If this £4.5bn was retained in Scotland, the analysis shows it would give a cash boost of £1800 to each Scottish household to tackle rising energy costs. The SNP calculated this by dividing the £4.5bn total between Scotland’s 2.51 million households.
SNP Business spokesperson Stephen Flynn MP said: “Scotland is bankrolling the whole of the UK, as it is only thanks to Scotland’s huge energy resources that the UK Government is able to respond this way to their own Tory-made cost of living crisis.
“And what this also shows is that if Scotland was independent, the money raised from this windfall tax could deliver £1800 for every Scottish household but we will only get a small fraction of that under Westminster control.””
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20172580.scotland-bankrolling-90-rishi-sunaks-5bn-windfall-tax%2F
@Repo 10:46
Good promise for the Indy Ref next year. Every Scottish household to get £1800 PA from a yearly oil & gas tax in an Independent Scotland.
To simplify things, payment of the £1800 to be entirely unconditional, so even No voters and white alkaseltzers get the dosh.
Such a no-brainer, I can’t see any down sides at all.
I believe maggie thatcher made good use of the Scottish resource ( ahem, cough ) as well.
When ruthie and Ns, pal around with the same group of anti Scottish independence elites, behind the scenes,
The question of Who is planning Scotlands future comes to mind?
Tony Blair’s son Ewan worth hundred of millions buys a £20 million home.
Just how many hundred million will in it for himself Daddy be worth.
I was once told socialist recognise that a country makes a specific sum of money.
If the rich get richer it can only come from the less well off.
Like there would be 2 to rub together in Westminster who think that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b7DgOeMnW4
cocaine socialism
James Che
27/5/22 10.51
Is that supposed to make some sense in response to my previous posts? Why not try responding to what I said instead of going off at a tangent…………….as you always do!
When someone starts off a post by stating ‘I had this conversation with Alex and Alba members just prior to the council election’-it gives me a pretty clear picture of what that individual thinks of their self. To save your embarrassment I will not point it out for you!
Lets all wring our hands and gnash our teeth about 300 year old injustices. That clearly is the only way forward for the dullards on here. 99% of Scots have no interest whatsoever.
Ruthie whom pretended to be against the tories down south, whom becomes blessed with ermine and robes from that very same source.
Or Ns, whom pretends to be for Scottish independence an against the tories in westminster, then spectacularly fails on every opportunity during brexit, and fails the Scottish Constitution,
All meeting with top grade psychopathic rich unelected planners of the one government for everyone,
All suggesting the one remedy of lockdowns together, while they all put covid patients in to care homes,
While they all go partying themselves under lockup regulations.
They all insist on a one plan climate change
All crashing the western economies together,.
While All have the same policy for a influx of migrantes into countries where finances are at breaking point for their own citizens.
While they jet plane their way around the world to Davos meetings WHO meetings, WEF summits.
And have dodgy connections with some to those on the edge of people traffickers and phedophillia
And yet no one seems to enquire why there is such an rise with these modern virus in a world un-indated with health and safety laws.
A new age of unquestioned biological warfare on populations.?
A new
It may seem and be named as a conspiracy theory to close conversation of what is happening simultainiously around the world and in Scotland.
But If NS is not running Scotland for the betterment of health, for improvement of economy, for the Safety of women and children, For Scotlands people,
Who is in the back ground running Scotland the same way as the rest of the globe.
@Chas 12.33 pm
“Lets all wring our hands and gnash our teeth about 300 year old injustices. That clearly is the only way forward for the dullards on here. 99% of Scots have no interest whatsoever.”
Well said. Sadly there is a constituency both in this place and in the broader movement that buys in to the James Che-esque narrative that puir benighted Scots are the objects of some vast conspiracy.
Thus “we” are not to blame for the current state of our rotten politics: we can rest assured that the game is rigged, which lets us off the hook right? It’s not our fault or responsibility, it’s something that’s being done to us. It doesn’t appear to occur to the hard of thinking that this is a huge cop out naturally.
I note James’ jeremiad at 10.51 pm last night up thread which read:
“Well you can hardly hold Scotland accountable for its downward trend the last 300 years.
Lost fishing fleets, ship building farming,oil, local industries etc,
Not to mention the Brexit effect,
Who do you want to blame Chas.?”
So all of these things were done to us then? No responsibility on the part of Scots themselves who presumably participated in these events? No obligation on them to do something to stop such calamities befalling our nation?
Blaming the big, bad “others”, insisting “we wuz robbed”, or we’re just a colony, or a plaything of the WEF/DAVOS/Illuminati/George Soros/shape-shifting space lizards [delete/insert fuck-wittery du jour as appropriate] is after all much more comforting than the truth: that we just haven’t persuaded enough people that the risks of staying within this rotten union outweigh the potential benefits, and that the potential benefits of independence outweigh those of “global Britain”.
I saw a post on GETTR the other day of a tweet by Samuel Say (@SlowToWrite):
“The people who offend you with the truth do not hate you.
The people who comfort you with lies hate you.
And if you prefer a comfortable lie over an offensive truth – you hate yourself”
Chas.
I realise that you do not understand the fact that we were deliberately not asked to join the treaty of union, by the English Parliament in 1707.
That the english parliaments ” reason ” for not asking us to join in a vote was the Scots would Probably vote against it, ( their words, not mine,)
What is it you do not understand?
Why the Scots are not Officially in the 1707 treaty?
Or Why that is so Important 300 years later?
Or why if two countries are supposedly attached together by a 300 year old treaty, is it still relevant?
Or perhaps you want to know why the Scots are not responsible for the running of their country , when they are not officially in the 300 year old treaty?
Maybe you wonder why The new British parliament in 1707 started taxing the sovereign Scots that were not asked to join the 300 year old treaty?
If it is a question on the Scottish economy you want an answer for.
Then the first question to seek an answer too, is why the english parliament, which tranferred its name to the New British parliament, lied to the Scots and pretended it was now in charge of running Scotland economy through trade and taxes.
Which part did you not understand, then maybe I can answer you’re question/s.
Of course the uk parliament site is telling lies, it is a 300 year old conspiracy.
I am very pleased they admitted it on their site for the public to read.
I’ve heard only the short clip of Alex Salmond’s speech reaching out to independence supporters as provided by Breeks: –
https://wingsoverscotland.com/firing-blanks/#comment-2692864
So, I can’t tell from the clip if he had also talked-up ALBA as a separate entity and path to independence.
But judging by that inspiring conclusion to his speech, I got the distinct impression that the focus is now on uniting the YES movement, rather than developing the scope of ALBA. Putting the case for independence first and ALBA second, as Alex appears to be doing, makes sense to me, as despite AS’s call to arms, there is no evidence that increased support for ALBA is inevitable, or even likely for the foreseeable future.
His choice of words was telling: –
‘Change can happen very quickly and requires 2 things*: a failure by the established parties, and an alternative to take matters forward’
He did not say that that alternative should or will be ALBA. What he did say was ‘there is an alternative for people to seize the moment and make political change happen’.
He also said ‘… and that’s why the party of ALBA and the YES organisations are required’ and repeated … ‘the job of ALBA, the job of other Independence organisations is to make sure we don’t go peacefully into the night’
That suggests people power and people pressure rather than party or outright political pressure, with a non-party organisation to the fore.
It saddens me that the initial euphoria at the founding of ALBA quickly dried up and we failed to make any impact in the first year, but if it has been concluded that support for ALBA may well increase just as fast by uniting and re-energising the case for independence, then I’ll take it if ALBA settles for becoming the political wing of something far more important.
*A third factor has been missed: an event, a major political upheaval such as the current and developing energy crisis. I see that it has dawned on WM that millions of citizens across the UK would freeze this winter unless they backtracked, and sticking plaster has been brought out as a matter of urgency. But sticking plaster is for minor cuts, and they, and SNP, have nothing to fix that which is irrevocably broken.
“Which part did you not understand, then maybe I can answer you’re question/s.”
James Che.
He understands it alright, as do the other shills in here, they know fine well that the people of Scotland are sovereign and not Westminster, that why the ex-Welsh FM tried to warn us that the Den of Iniquity aka Westminster is doing all in its powers to undermine our sovereignty, and that he would leave it up to the Scottish government (the treacherous b*stards in the SNP) to fight that corner.
Sturgeon the betrayer knows that we are sovereign as well, but that route to ditching this God awful union is kept quiet by her the media she funds, the Britnats at Holyrood and their Fifth Column partners SNP/Greens posing as indy parties.
moderation? again?? FFS
moderate the one from 25 May at 1.49pm as well
no bad words, honest
What I don’t get is how nationalists
can’t see the fact that they are playing straight into the “Westminster Establishments” hands EVERY TIME they vote SNP.
I can say this with a clear conscience as I have made the decision to NEVER play into the hands of the “Establishment” by voting in any poxy election again.
James Che.
As this has been going on in Europe it brought back other matters closer to home to mind.
Stickers stuck to notable graves in famous French graveyard saying “If we were alive we’d support Zelensky”
The Ukrainisation of Europe is well under way.
“In the Parisian cemetery of Père Lachaise, several dozen graves and even family crypts showed stickers – on a light background framed by a yellow and blue rant, the words were emblazoned”If I were alive, I would support Zelensky.” Among the dead (and long ago) who made up the “team of fans” of the Ukrainian president were, for example, Edith Piaf, Marshal of Napoleon Michel Ney, Frédéric Chopin, Jean-Baptiste Molière, Eloise (the one whom Abelard loved) and even Jim Morrison (doors frontman).”
__________
The 1979 Scottish Devolution referendum.
“Everyone who is dead but on the current roll [like my father] is therefore an automatic No. People who can’t be bothered to go to the polling stations are counted as a No (and usually 25 per cent of the electorate don’t bother turning out in a General Election). So are people on holiday or away on business.”
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F14871480.scotland-back-in-the-day-1979s-40-rule-cooked-the-books-against-devolution%2F
daodao says:
28 May, 2022 at 8:09 am
Why is there so much support for Alba on this site? The party failed to win any seats at the recent local government elections, attracting just 0.7% of first preference votes. Alba is dead in the water.
Because ALBA is Independence Concentrate. The SNP has been diluted to taste.
The bigger question you should be asking is why there is so much support which defies gravity for a thoroughly useless entity like Nicola Sturgeon.
The foot soldiers who genuinely want Independence are looking in the wrong place and need to refresh their browser.
The Treaty of Union is the document that underpins the United Kingdom. Scotland’s future cannot be discussed without a clear understanding of Scotland’s past. Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who do not wish to discuss the Treaty of Union, recognise that Scots are sovereign in their own country, or that the franchise for constitutional matters should be limited to those who are truly committed to Scotland (Scots of at least one generation perhaps), then they are, whether deliberately or not, working as agents of the British state.
SNP using the YES logo to raise funds, the small print reveals the money isn’t for YES but to go into the SNP’s coffers.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/28/check-this-out-as-snp-use-yes-branding-to-raise-money-for-the-snp/
@Saffron Robe
Can you point me to any country which has had a referendum on independence which has based the franchise for such a vote on disqualifying anyone not born there? What is meant by “Scots of at least one generation” exactly?
You seem very keen to paint the vast majority of the civic nationalist movement in Scotland as agents of the British state. Presumably you have some actual evidence for this outlandish assertion?
Voting rights at local and constitutional levels for quite a few countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote
Andy Ellis says:
28 May, 2022 at 3:23 pm
What is meant by “Scots of at least one generation” exactly?
You seem very keen to paint the vast majority of the civic nationalist movement in Scotland as agents of the British state. Presumably you have some actual evidence for this outlandish assertion?
—
Some facts about Scotland and Scots law, Andy.
Claim of Right Act 1689 clearly states that the Scots have the right to directly petition the Monarch – thus Bypassing parliament. The people are sovereign by right, from birth.
Union with England Act 1707 saw the above Act enshrined in the laws of the new kingdom of Great Britain, binding its Parliament to the terms (and also those entities that sign treaties with it)
The Scots are those whose birth is recorded in the Registers of Scotland…our birthrights aren’t within the gift of any other jurisdiction to alter and can’t be assumed merely by dint of residence. England’s subjects are subject to the laws of England wrt birthrights [see Union with Scotland Act 1706]…dems de facts and isn’t a sign of hatred.
You’ve had this explained to you over and over again…Scotland and its laws are unique within the ‘International Community’.
@Scott 5.06 pm
You’ve had it explained to you over and over again that the international community doesn’t really give a shit mate, but like a dog returning to its own vomit you just can’t stay away from arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Nobody else cares. Go and petition Queenie and see how far it gets you.
All countries think their laws are unique, whether they go back centuries or were promulgated in a couple of years after they freed themselves from the rule of someone else, whether European colonial masters, Russian imperialists or Yugoslavian communists.
The international community doesn’t think were unique. We have to do the same things and satisfy the same criteria to be accepted as an independent state. There are no cunning plans or shortcuts: we just have to grow a pair and take our independence as 150 other peoples have done over the decades since WW2. Few of them had the kind of advantages we do. Many faced down overwhelming odds, imprisonment, violence and war to gain their independence. Scots can even bestir themselves to place a cross in a box in on a ballot paper.
Andy Ellis says:
28 May, 2022 at 5:35 pm
@Scott 5.06 pm
You’ve had it explained to you over and over again that the international community doesn’t really give a shit mate, but like a dog returning to its own vomit you just can’t stay away from arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Nobody else cares. Go and petition Queenie and see how far it gets you.</b.
—-
It is a CONDITION of ALL TREATIES entered into by PARLIAMENT that UNION with ENGLAND ACT 1707 & CLAIM of RIGHT ACT 1689 and the terms contained within are ALSO BINDING TERMS of said Treaties AND REMAIN SO NOTWITHSTANDING THE UNION of SCOTLAND AND ENGLAND
Scotland is a joint signatory to all those treaties and will remain so on Day 1 of independence, because it’s in the t&cs already. All thanks to the forseight of the much-maligned ‘Commission’ back in the day.
Cry harder Andy, but the rule of law in Scotland is what it is, by agreement of the world. Haha.
Bonus fun fact: The power of the nobile officium is unlimited.
James Che 1.17
Re your patronising response to mine.
I read every word of your masterpiece carefully and my thoughts did not change one iota. I, along with the overwhelming majority of Scots do not fucking care.
What are you going to do about all the injustices of 300 years ago.? Can I suggest that you chain yourself to the railings outside Bute House until such times as all is rectified. Of course, this will achieve absolutely fuck all but it would keep you away from a pc thus preventing you from boring us to death with the same shite day after day.
Andy Ellis
If I see any post with a 300 year date in it I will swiftly move on to the next one. Unless of course, the next one is by Scum 1 (RoS). I will bypass any from her/her/it even quicker.
Do you ever feel that you are banging your head against a brick wall?
It is distinctly obvious that those hanging onto Scots are in the union mantra are the same people that nail their flag to, usually a unionist corner,
That is until England’s westminster has everything prepared to leave first, setting the accord of divvying up who gets what in their favour.
When that happens the unionists will be the first to agree with a sudden change of heart. That it was Scotland’s fault.
However as maggie thatcher and A S have suggested it is the Scots that are Sovereign, and it is up to the Scottish people,
The devolved government in Scotland is a british branch government, that imposes onto Scots english laws through its branch office.
The first time we see this happening to our laws was by imposing maritime laws into Scotland and the Treason Act.
Our so called parliament in Scotland today does the same, when you think of Brexit and trade laws or the old poll tax.
This is Not a Scottish government or Scottish Parliament at all.
Q, 1. when the Scots people of today decide they have had enough of constantly being deceived and lied to do we want to keep a Westminster branch office in Edinburgh?
Q, 2. Do Sovereign Scots need to wait for Westminsters Section 30’s, or The devolved british branch office permission?
Many hold up their hands and say,
Oh but we need to be recognised here and abroad internationally.
I say.
Oh but the British parliament has to prove we were ever invited by vote to enter into the 1707 treaty of the union in the first place.
If, and it is a big IF at this stage, the Sovereign Scot as people in their own nation country decide not to garner the permission of westminster any more to go independent.
It would be westminster that would have to contest it, not the Scottish people.
It would be westminster that would have to go for international support to prove the Sovereign Scot was beholden to a international treaty that the Scots were by the English parliament deliberately discussed to be held out of.
And to secondly add to that scenario would be, wether the treaty of the union could be upheld today.
After imposing english law into Scots law.as A S and others have suggested.
Along with Lord Coopers statement, that English Parliamentary Sovereignty has no parallel in Scotland, where it is the people that hold Sovereignty.
What can The british parliament actually do legally.
Sovereign Scots cannot be accused of UDI.
And we would not be asking NS, the snp or the devolved government to do like wise.
The onus for prove in looking for international recognition does not fall on the Scots.
But rather the British government having to prove it did indeed incorporate the Scottish nation of Sovereign Scots to Create a union of nation countries of Great Britain.
It created a union of parliaments, yes, but then quickly annuled the Scottish Parliament.
Thus annulling one side of two joint agreements between two parliaments for that treaty, making only one half of the agreement left.
The Scottish parliament that closed in 1707 cannot now be held accountable to uphold the treaty of the union.
The Sovereign Scots were never invited to join the treaty of the union.
If The British Parliament do take it to european courts, we will get all the recognition you or anyone else seeks internationally and more.
We have had it the wrong way round for all these years,
But then it was not until recently we found out from the UK parliament site that The English Parliament of 1707 deliberately decided not to give a vote to Scots to join the 1707 treaty of the union.
May I remind everyone to make a physical paper copy from the uk parliament site,
We may need it one day.
It always amazes me when folk come on here and say that a 300 year old treaty has no relevance to the UK being what it is- a piece of bigoted shite.
You go and tell the NO voting knuckledraggers of the true brigade in Glesgi and the ultra unionists of the red hand in ulster(proddie wans) that it means fuck all.
The first two articles lays it all out in it’s bare form for being a piece of white trash bigoted of a document and should be abolished, and thus voided. Then the UK doesn’t exist – simples.
Get CHARLIE and WILLIAM to turn CATHOLIC( the Roman type) smiley thing and see the shit hit the fan like you’ve never seen before. The yoons the ultra bigots would be having coronaries and strokes all over the realm. I would LMFAO -LAUGH MY FUCKING ARSE OFF –
Treaties don’t mean shit- really?
Scotland would be free.
“Tony Blair’s son Ewan worth hundred of millions buys a £20 million home.
Just how many hundred million will in it for himself Daddy be worth.”
Effigy 120.7pm.
Blair is a war criminal as is Bush Jr, both were convicted at a court in Malaysia (In absentia) of crimes against humanity and war crimes.
Any way re my article the possibility of Blair heading up anew political party in the UK with Ruth (I love the rape clause) Davidson, another name mentioned Larry Summers is a deep state US operative and close pal of the suicided Jeffry Epstein.
The guys a walking advert for the neoliberal deep state and his membership of such groups is something to behold.
He’s a member of,
“21st Century Council, Atlantic Council/Board, Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, Bilderberg/Steering committee, Brookings Institution, Council on Foreign Relations/Members 3, Group of Thirty, Henry Jackson Society/Henry Jackson Initiative, International Crisis Group/Board, Lolita Express/Passengers, The American Academy in Berlin/Distinguished Visitors, Trilateral Commission, WEF/Global Leaders for Tomorrow/1993”
As Harvard president Summers instructed Mark Zuckerberg, along with a few friends to create a social media group that would be sponsored by the US government one which could be weaponised, it gave rise to what is now known as Facebook. Summers involvement in the deep state is a virtually bottomless.
Three different posters on here today telling me I am sovereign.
OK, I believe them. I am going out into my garden now, to shout to the world, “I am a sovereign Scot”.
Right, I’m back. A few funny looks but no lasting harm done.
Perhaps somebody will now tell me what the fuck it means.
See the bloke in the flat one up. Born and bred in Liverpool, Everton supporter through and through. So I am sovereign and he is not. What practical, tangible or noticeable difference is there between us?
Seems to me that if there is no difference that can be observed, measured, utilised or demonstrated, then being sovereign is a bit like being saved; an article of faith only.
John Main says:
28 May, 2022 at 7:07 pm
Three different posters on here today telling me I am sovereign.
OK, I believe them. I am going out into my garden now, to shout to the world, “I am a sovereign Scot”.
Right, I’m back. A few funny looks but no lasting harm done.
Perhaps somebody will now tell me what the fuck it means.
See the bloke in the flat one up. Born and bred in Liverpool, Everton supporter through and through. So I am sovereign and he is not. What practical, tangible or noticeable difference is there between us?
—
The sovereignty of the people of England is excercised by Parliament on their behalf.
The sovereignty of the Scots remains as a statutory right. I can petition the Monarch directly as a birth right – Parliament can interfere in the right of your Scouse pal in the process but not mine.
While in Scotland, everyone has the protection of Scots law in the first instance, but *sovereign rights* are a matter for the Judiciary on a case by-case basis for those born elsewhere.
The kingdom of Great Britain is made of two constituent parts and only two – The kingdoms of Scotland and England and their respective legal systems.
We have equal rights as Scots and English, but the English devolved theirs to Parliament. Claim of Right Act 1689 enshrined my right to bypass that Parliament.
Scots law and English law and application of are the practical, tangible or noticeable differences.
T’was always thus and shall remain so.
PS Tell yer pal that I’m hoping for a Real Madrid victory ce soir. Perennial justice for the 39 who died 29th May 1985. Fuck Liverpool FC. They should have been banned sine die from UEFA competition. I also understand Rev Stu’s logic about Hillsborough. The effect of the people at the rear of the queue disregarding logic, and the laws of physics & biology – the fans were not totally blameless. The lesson to learn for everyone was, ‘don’t push against an object that should move but can’t…’ You might save a life.
https://archive.ph/JO7RN
Under Boris Johnson’s new Union Jack Imperial Calendar, every day is now officially April Fool’s Day.
Breeks, just another example of UK imperialism! Thankfully it won’t affect my medicinal pint of Guinness!
Scott,
A reasonable good explanation,
Thanks for saving me some time,
As busy most of weekend with visitors 🙂
Chas.
Remember what you said earlier.
Remember to scroll past.
We are trying to explain the treaty of the union or not as the case may be to the undecided’s, not the definately No’s
There usually on the other side of this site.
You need to keep scrolling past.
Sorry about that i thought i was chatting to some on the same side as the rest of the majority in the grassroots, my apologies.
James Che. says:
28 May, 2022 at 10:17 pm
Scott,
A reasonable good explanation.
—
Thanks.
JFC, breaches of the Union with England Act 1707 AND the Claim of Right Act 1689 are for the courts to rule on and aren’t open to debate from those who are YES, NO or otherwise.
examples:
1. There’s no provision for abdication of the Monarch in Scots law. The crown is worn until death, see CoR 1689. When Edward abdicated and the Queen’s Da took over, this was beyond the power of the Monarchy…George’s appointment was opposable and justiciable at Court of Session.
2. Trading terms were to be consistent throughout the kingdom and dominions. see UwE 1707…the Tax havens have rights denied to the Scots, a clear breach.
3. The Scots can bypass the legislatures and make a direct request to the monarch.
As for the future…
Being asked to provide the entire blueprint for a ‘new nation’ is illogical, as it wouldn’t be publicly demanded of a ‘new company’ by its rivals and opponents, would it?
Provide the basic principles, the rest can be worked out from there.
Yours,
A mathematician called Scott.
James Che. says:
28 May, 2022 at 10:17 pm
Scott,
A reasonable good explanation,
Thanks for saving me some time,
As busy most of weekend with visitors ?
The point about sovereignty is not just what sovereignty empowers you to do, but what it prevents everybody else from having the power to do.
@Scott 7:37
You got what you wished for.
Was that sovereignty at work? 🙂
I see there’s still a lot of furious pirouetting on the top of that Treaty of Union pin going on eh? Guess what guys, nobody really cares. Only a handful of cranks and moon howlers unaccountably seem to rate your output.
There’s a fairly exact overlap with the sundry basket of deplorables pushing their woo-woo fringe beliefs: those who want to disenfranchise 20% of Scots, or who think that the Ukrainians had it coming, or that there’s a multi faceted conspiracy by space lizards, big pharma, Bill Gates, George Soros, WEF/Davos the Illuminati etc.
You may have convinced yourselves and a small coterie of like minded nativists and folk whose idea of balance is having a chip on both shoulders, but you’re not fooling the rest of the movement, or more importantly undecided voters in Scotland.
Nobody sane thinks any of these fantastical readings of breaches of the Treaty of Union by self appointed amateurs who have read them a bit will lead to some “gotcha” moment in court, still less to actual independence. There are no short cuts or cunning plans which are plausible, accepted by the Scottish electorate as do-able, or by the international community as legitimate. If you have evidence – rather than just your own hot takes – show us the analysis from experts in the field, scholarly articles, legal opinions, and polling evidence to back it up. Do the equivalent of that thing Rev Stu is so good at: lay out your case and show us the proof.
Until then, the folk actually interested in achieving independence in any reasonable timescale will carry on trying to make the case, convince more people to support “Yes”, and build up a movement that is prepared to vote for us to leave this rancid union. Hope against hope that some deus ex machina will intervene and do the hard work for us by short circuiting the process or moving the goalposts using some novel legal / constitutional route just isn’t going to cut it.
To gain support you have to provide convincing evidence to support your novel plans, not the wishful thinking and amateur hour research of random folk on the internet: plausible analysis and opinions from recognised experts in their legal and constitutional fields. The stream of consciousness ramblings of James Che, the soundbites of Scott or Alf Baird’s “Scotland as colony” mantra assuring us that we’re absolved of responsibility because we’re playing on a queered pitch aren’t evidence, they’re just opinions.
So far you’re coming up empty.
New allegation Gray’s report was instructed to be watered down a degree with names and events removed.
Makes sense as her boss is Boris.
It also explains why when it was completed months ago and handed over to the police it was suddenly delayed to be finalised after the police had concluded their own farcical investigation.
I use the term investigation loosely as you can be declared innocent if you refused to fill in their questionnaire.
@Scott the maths 10.51 pm
1) “1. There’s no provision for abdication of the Monarch in Scots law. The crown is worn until death, see CoR 1689. When Edward abdicated and the Queen’s Da took over, this was beyond the power of the Monarchy…George’s appointment was opposable and justiciable at Court of Session.”
So what? If you’re right and it was opposable and justiciable, why wasn’t that done? Since it wasn’t done, what are you suggesting: we crowd fund a legal case to depose the Windsors and do what exactly…? Even if that were plausible….how does it help us gain independence faster than placing an “X” in a box at an indyref or plebiscitary election?
2) “Trading terms were to be consistent throughout the kingdom and dominions. see UwE 1707…the Tax havens have rights denied to the Scots, a clear breach.”
OK: let’s assume you’re right (evidence please…you know…actual legal opinions from constitutional experts, not the hot takes of Scott the mathematician). Again, so what? Who is going to bring the case to court to demonstrate the breach, how long will it take, how much will it cost? Will it advance the cause of independence and produce results faster than the conventional alternatives?
3) “The Scots can bypass the legislatures and make a direct request to the monarch.”
What did Glenda say when you asked her?
What’s that…?…… You haven’t asked?
Oh…awks.
So you and/or others do ask, what happens when she say “No”?
Again….who is doing the asking, who is paying for the legal work, and how long is it going to take? Please show your workings…..extra marks will be given for effort even when your answer proves to be dead wrong.
O/T – (or perhaps (hopefully) not vis a vis headline)
Now that Scotland has endorsed compulsory vaccination upon anyone wanting to visit EU (partly by leaving that union against the sage advice of its own electorate) perhaps Angus Robertson can still turn situation around during his visit to Brussels by offering Faslane to the French as a carrot to get back in (ie in event they want to mount a surprise, but potentially justified, attack on Austalia, etc).
Worst that might happen is he starts a bidding war and gets price discovery on its strategic value (assuming any of the folks at negotiating table involved in setting a cap on the seabed monopolies remain /can be brought, onside)
Craig Hoy MSP. ups his toff accent, but slips back into his Scottish twang.
Makes ye sick listening to fook deein’ aat.
Andy Ellis says:
29 May, 2022 at 9:34 am
2) “Trading terms were to be consistent throughout the kingdom and dominions. see UwE 1707…the Tax havens have rights denied to the Scots, a clear breach.”
OK: let’s assume you’re right (evidence please…you know…actual legal opinions from constitutional experts, not the hot takes of Scott the mathematician). Again, so what? Who is going to bring the case to court to demonstrate the breach, how long will it take, how much will it cost? Will it advance the cause of independence and produce results faster than the conventional alternatives?
—-
Read Union with England Act 1707 and Claim of Right Act 1689.
Articles IV, VI, XVIII
“And that the same shall be therein expressly Declared to be a fundamentall and essentiall Condition of the said Treaty or Union in all time coming”
>>>
A court case needn’t cost the appellant a penny and can be fast-tracked. See rules of the court.
I’m sure that if the Court of Session found in favour that would alter the perception of the union throughout the world.
The beauty of our court system is that the individual can prosecute their own case. The court and Lord Advocate have a duty to ensure that person is not disadvantaged in any way in doing so.
Do you ever cringe when reading your input here, Andy? Who pours such scorn on their birthright to petition the monarch directly?
Scott says: 28 May, 2022 at 10:51 pm
There’s no provision for abdication of the Monarch in Scots law. The crown is worn until death, see CoR 1689. When Edward abdicated and the Queen’s Da took over, this was beyond the power of the Monarchy…George’s appointment was opposable and justiciable at Court of Session.
It’s bringing up nonsense like this by political hobbyists that hands priceless ammunition into the hands of opponents of Scottish nationalism … little more than a rehash of the old Jacobite arguments about “legitimate claimants to the throne”.
It’s doubly dangerous in the case of the matter of Edward VIII and Who Cares What Number He Was In The Scottish Crown because he was a known Nazi sympathiser – a charge long flung at the first leader of the SNP Arthur Donaldson, damned forever in the eyes of some for being an 18b detainee for five minutes and for his Scottish Neutrality League, which issued leaflets telling people not to join up for the war effort.
Bring up crap like this, and out comes the “Aha! Scottish nationalists wanted to keep the Nazi king for an independent Scotland!” from Scotland In Union types and other such servile specimens equally as happy to cherry pick historical details for their own ends.
And, as has been already pointed out, if true, why was there no noteworthy campaign in Scotland on that point for Ed The Unwed to remain treated as Scotland’s king? After all, by your own argument “Scots are sovereign” …
As Andy says rightly, pontificating on “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” points of Scottish Jurisprudence, ancient texts found buried in caves where Robert The Bruce once made tottie scones and the rest of the ragtag and bobtail of stuff wildly entertaining to Siol nan Gaidheal members and other such types who envisage the path to independence as some wonderful John Buchan adventure.
But the cold mundane reality is that it will be the boring old slog of achieving and then winning another boring old referendum, because that’s how the real world works. No magic wand or Gandalf’s Pikestaff is going to achieve it.
Mark Boyle says:
29 May, 2022 at 10:33 am
Scott says: 28 May, 2022 at 10:51 pm
—
I’m surprised you’re still allowed to post comments on here, having requested that someone go away and die.
Btw, you’re the one that brought up the association between Edward & Nazis, not me. Wasn’t in my thoughts at all, tbh.
@ Scott 10.12 am
There are quite a few positing on her who should be cringing about their input here, but since you ask no I’ve never had reason to think that about mine, because it reflects the views of most ordinary folk in the movement and more broadly Scott.
I didn’t ask you to regurgitate bits of the Treat: anyone with an internet connection can do that. I asked you to justify your assertions. Once again you signally failed. You’re a mathematician according to your posts. Your opinions and assertions about the Treaties, whilst interesting to some no doubt, don’t get us a scintilla closer to independence.
If it is as easy for an individual to prosecute their case, and it needn’t cost them a penny and will be fast tracked by the court, then why haven’t you or one of the other supporters of the cunning plan done it?
I’m pouring scorn on lack wits who assert things without real knowledge, evidence or thought. That’s not a reason to cringe, not is it a demonstration I’m a britnat/Sturgeonite/MI5 plant etc.
It’s simply pointing out to the deluded in here that the fact they steadfastly believe something to be true, doesn’t magically render it so.
The universities of Scotland (and doubtless elsewhere) are full of academics and historians who would be able to support your take on how the Treaties have been breached, how we can remedy these breaches, and how that would support this short cut to independence avoiding referendums or plebiscitary elections.
So….let’s hear about it. Where are the analyses, the scholarly papers, the conferences to discuss these issues?
If there are none, why is that?
Is it because folk don’t care, or because they realise it is an irrelevant non-issue as there are better things to do with their time and our time?
For all the heat this issue seems to generate amongst a small group of cranks, it never seems to generate any light, or be able to point to any academic, legal or constitutional expert evidence in its support.
One might almost think that should tell us something……
Fandan Ellis says:
I didn’t ask you to regurgitate bits of the Treat: anyone with an internet connection can do that. I asked you to justify your assertions. Once again you signally failed.
—
You asked for proof re my assertion about trading terms, so I pointed out which Articles referred to trade specifically.
Asking me why nobody in 1936 challenged George’s claim to the crown of Scotland is an attempt at deflection, but it won’t work.
Claim of Right Act explicitly states that the job of Monarch is for life…it was a justiciable case.
You only need to understand legislation when arguing your case on a point of law, Andy. Everything flows from it.
In Scots law, the pertinent legislation with regard to the union is Union with England Act 1707 & Claim of Right Act 1689…all subsequent legislation HAS to comply with both.
I don’t need a law degree to understand this…neither do you or anyone else.
pharmaceutical manufacturers have paid $83 Billion in fines over the last 10 years .
This one industry accounts for 80% of fines levied on industrial manufacturers worldwide
care to comment Ellis ? or will you continue to post total shite in their defence , eh time for yer Monkeypox jab sucker fill yer boots.
Look Scott you’re wasting your time trying to convince that crew on Scots ancient rights, rights that Westminster was founded on and they still wheel them out today such as the Henry VIII laws.
The valid point among all the chaff is that Scots are sovereign not Westminster, this is dressed by the boo boys as ancient twaddle, poppycock nonsense to turn folk away from commenting on it.
@Robert Graham 11.15 am
Why would I bother interacting with vaccine denying “truthers”. You’re the flat earthers de no jours.
Covidiots gonna covidiot.
Tackety Beets, your name has just taken me back to my childhood in Aiberdeen and our cobbler who was called Mr Tastard ( an unfortunate name though that didn’t occur to me until much later in life) His entire conversation as far as I am aware was conducted with a mouthful of nails but he could mend anything made of leather , tackety beets being a speciality – I found him fascinating.
Anybody ancient out there who lived in Woodside and remember the same mannie??
Scott says: 29 May, 2022 at 10:38 am
I’m surprised you’re still allowed to post comments on here, having requested that someone go away and die.
Ah, tone trolling, the surefire note of someone who knows they’ve dug themselves into a hole.
Btw, you’re the one that brought up the association between Edward & Nazis, not me. Wasn’t in my thoughts at all, tbh.
Which again shows your sheer naivity, because it’s exactly what opponents of Scottish nationalism would latch onto, and in order to beat them, you need to second guess them.
For decades opponents of the SNP used to call them “Tartan Tories” and “the Scottish Nazi Party” for the benefit of the Old Firm supporting, Daily Record reading masses who like life to be simplified into small IQ required concepts, especially that of a world of “goodies” vs “baddies”.
Thus anything which could be proffered as “proof” of the SNP or its supporters being firmly in the “baddie” camp would be used with much relish, eg. Winnie Ewing’s foolish sitting in the European Parliament with the group of the “Technical Right” until told very bluntly by HQ to get her arse as far away from them as possible.
That you need to be spoonfed on such basic matters perhaps suggests taking a crash course in common sense before your next dumpster dive in obscure historical factoids may be in order.
Mark Boyle says:
29 May, 2022 at 12:35 pm
Ah, tone trolling, the surefire note of someone who knows they’ve dug themselves into a hole.
—-
Not really. It was me you directed the comment at.
Here it is here, in all its glory…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/comment-page-2/#comment-2690672
On Wings btl no-one hears your screams.
You’re on the run , a fugitive from those who imprisoned you on false charges ie you’re innocent of any crime .
After days and night of fighting through bramble and nettle entangled undergrowth , treacherous marshes , dense forest where little sunlight can penetrate ; all the while hellhounds are on your trail .Eventually , you come to a deep , wide river ,on the opposite bank of which resides safety and freedom .YES !
The only problem is you’ve injured yourself in flight , to attempt to cross unaided would almost certainly mean being swept away in the fierce current
Looking around , you see a boat tethered to tree . Hope reappears .
Suddenly , a man emerges from the shade . The Ferryman , who offers to take you across the river ; gratis
Do you gladly , gratefully accept his offer ?
Or , do you start asking him how old the boat is , where it was made , start checking it for holes , criticising the design ? Even accuse him of attempting to deceive you ?
Better decide quick . Those hellhounds are getting closer
Robert Graham @11.15am.
Here’s something to mull over.
In 2021 the Nuclear Threat Initiative and the Munich Security Conference held a tabletop exercise to rehearse global reaction to an outbreak of monkeypox. The outbreak of this virus was predicted to occur in May 2022, Bill gates funded the tabletop exercise.
Coincidence?
I feel sorry for this old boy he’s ben deceived the Betrayer as have we all.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20172964.galashiels-indy-activist-over-moon-receiving-letter-nicola-sturgeon%2F
FFS moderation again?
moderate, don’t moderate, turn the whole thing off, but don’t have people wasting their damn time send off text
Scott says: 29 May, 2022 at 12:44 pm
Mark Boyle says:
29 May, 2022 at 12:35 pm
Ah, tone trolling, the surefire note of someone who knows they’ve dug themselves into a hole.
—-
Not really. It was me you directed the comment at.
Here it is here, in all its glory…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-update/comment-page-2/#comment-2690672
It is still tone trolling – and month old tone trolling at that.
Pity in all your self pity you didn’t notice Brian Doonthetoon took an equally dim view of your pretentious nonsense.
But thank you for reminding us all once again how laughably out of touch you are with the real world … “I went to a working class University”, dear oh dear!
29 May 2022 1.44pm
28 May 2022 1.28pm
25 May 2022 1.49pm
19 November 2021 1.04am
your comment is awaiting moderation
@Scott 11.06 pm
Quoting back bits of the text of a Treaty isn’t proof. If you’re too dim to see that I can’t help you. You purport to be a mathematician. Do better.
It’s not deflection to ask why, if it is so self evidently true and without any risk, nobody at the time or since has done anything about it? Again, either that can be explained by thinking what you are saying is tosh, or by the fact people think it’s irrelevant to day to day life and actual political reality in the 1930’s or today, or you’re simply factually wrong.
I wouldn’t trust your word on it. I might be convinced by legal or constitutional experts in the field setting out their stalls and persuading me. Feel free to point all that analysis out, or get back to us when it’s available eh?
Nobody is expected to be an expert in everything, but as we’ve seen in recent years it pays us to beware of people telling us not to trust experts, but to believe slogans on the sides of buses or random neds on the internet giving us the “benefit” of their hot takes from the depths of the internet.
@Repo 11:21
Wrong again.
I have become convinced that I am a sovereign Scot, and I have been commenting on it.
I have also asked: WHAT PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
So far, I have been told it means I can petition the queen, but petition her about what, exactly?
Should I demand Indy? Should I demand a Referendum? Should I demand more money? As Andy asks, if this is all so straightforward, why has nobody else done it?
One final thought, Repo. Given the anti-monarchy position implicit in your “disguise”, what’s stopping you petitioning the Queen to demand she dissolves her reign and that of her descendants?
Don’t leave it too long, Repo. In an Independent Republic of Scotland, your ancient, incontrovertible, unalterable, irrefutable right to petition the monarch won’t exist.
Uh oh, another logic bomb.
@Ron Maclean 12:53
If nobody around you ever hears you scream with laughter at some of the posts, you need help.
This used to be a good place for some banter, but now it’s dominated by pub bores ready to pour pails of cold vomit on anything even vaguely positive.
🙁
Anybody fretting over Monkeypox and the risk of catching it should do a couple of minute’s research on the WHO website.
I won’t go into details here. But all the info you need to stay safe enough is easily available.
@ Ian Brotherhood 2.49pm remind us all again Ian what the purpose of trolls and britnats and the security services are , is it not to undermine , obfuscate and defeat positivity , is it not about destroying self belief and questioning your views and opinions
Ellis , Main , Boyle , chas and some others decry and disrupt it is all about NEGATIVITY, ELLIS the lonely pub bore and reader of minds likes to denounce anything by ASSERTING he KNOWS what people are thinking or what their opinions are , he DEMANDS proof from others of their assertions but NEVER provides proof of HIS claims
The others I can’t be bothered listing their motives but it is certainly not independence for Scotland
RepublicofScotland.
I watched bill gates talking of a pox virus in the future, in a interveiw during Covid.
How far will they go?
Who is fit to live.
These questions may have answers to the following , you tube video,
Eugenics and Americas Campaign to Create a master race: war against the weak. 2003.
Good to tie names together,
James Che.
Yes its very interesting following the Monkeypox outbreak for instance, this from the WHO website.
“To date, all cases whose samples were confirmed by PCR have been identified as being infected with the West African clade. Genome sequence from a swab sample from a confirmed case in Portugal, indicated a close match of the monkeypox virus causing the current outbreak, to exported cases from Nigeria to the United Kingdom, Israel and Singapore in 2018 and 2019”
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2022-DON385
The USA has several biolabs in Nigeria, incidentally the Great Satan is building one of the biggest overseas based in the world in Nigeria at the moment. The name monkeypox originates from the initial discovery of the virus in monkeys in a Danish laboratory in 1958. The first human case was identified in a child in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 1970.
Anyway Big Pharma and The Bill & Melinda gates Foundation between them sponsor the WHO up to about 75% of their funds.
Lets do it The trolls way.
And keep hitting our heads against the same brick wall of referendums, wait, wait … wait next election scenario,
Well that has been an absolute winner policy year after year of carrot dangling year.
Its amazing to see how far we have advanced using this age old method.
We might be nutters, fringe people, moon howlers, or a, ( Hilary Clinton qoute coming up, NS friend!) A baskest full of deplorables,
We must be a little brain damaged as the trolls imply, to keep doing the same thing, and to expect a different answer,
Vote out one line of political party, and expect to get who you voted for.
We all know that never happens in Scotland.
And we all know the franchise for counting our votes has to redirect our votes miles and miles away, often through the night.
The trolls do not want us to wander of corse, to talk, to try, to learn to think for our selves.
The ideas are being dicussed by the grass roots movement, but we are told we are to Wee, to small, not enough, not a majority. To stupid.
Well We have all heard this in msm and news headlines, from the opposite side. In Scotland many a time.
It sounds so fimiliar,
But we have heard and been told many times before that we are not the Majority, that we are to Wee, to Small, To stupid.
However we have never heard the grassroots for an independent Scotland ever say it,
Nor have we ever heard. A S say it.
We have not come across this mantra in the many marches we have been to for independence.
And you will not hear it being said anywhere in the “YES” for Scotland movement.
However there are a small number on here that claim to be seeking independence for the Scots, and Scotland constantly telling us,
We are to WEE, ie, not a majority of Scots,
We are to stupid, ie, with our new alternative thoughts and possible solutions,
and we will be forever very Poor.. ie, we could not manage our economy.
Very fimiliar sounds that usually are bleated out from the opposition to independence for Scotland.
Aye those lizard/human interface , Flat Earth believing , Illumninati whackos really ought to stay off the Icke acid and start listening to sensible Guardian-reading types who KNOW there’s no such thing as Elites of various hues exerting immense influence on how we think , what we believe to be true , what information we receive and – crucially , what information we don’t receive . It’s all nonsense , isn’t it ?
https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/ten-times-empire-managers-showed?s=w&fbclid=IwAR1SY5o0g_ig9QJPNMID9MVXncVtIcZavNV17tSCzILdk_G2QYvGs4buO8I
James Che
At times, most of the time to be honest, you do post some crap.
However your latest epistle is up there with the worst of them.
Some of us clearly simply do not have your wisdom therefore please spell it out to us, of lesser intellect, EXACTLY how Independence for Scotland is to be achieved without the majority voting for it ie in a referendum!
Robert Hughes @6.08pm.
Robert smashing bit of satire there, you nailed.
@Chas 6:37
The other way of looking at Indy without majority support, is that a majority of Scots may be actively hostile and opposed.
Now, Brexit seems to suggest that the majority of Scots can be over-ruled, and nothing much happens, other than some random noise.
Would the same hold true for Indy? I have no idea. But Occam’s razor and so on, by far the simplest solution is to get majority support for Indy. And by far the simplest solution for that, is to persuade ordinary Scots we will be materially and financially better off post-Indy.
Hell, most Scots won’t care if NS has herself crowned empress for life post-Indy, with the historic and traditional right of the red hand, if we have the credible and independently, expertly, verified guarantee of substantially more folding in our pockets.
It really is as simple as that.
Robert Hughes @ 6:08pm
Now, now, don’t make fun of Ellis.
He may be right that our governments wouldn’t lie to us about that sort of thing (only the awful Russians would do that), it seems to me you’re quite clearly a conspiracy theorist, returning to your own vomit before howling at the moon, and anyway it must be true because the majority think so and yada yada…..
Long term residency doesn’t guarantee you a constitutional vote in Denmark.
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/05/29/left-or-right-how-denmark-handles-referendums/
twathater says: 29 May, 2022 at 4:45 pm
Ellis , Main , Boyle , chas and some others decry and disrupt it is all about NEGATIVITY
Every day, in every day, the lunatic fringe on this board sound more and more like Sturgeon and her mates – anything contrary to their wired to the moon world outlook is “NEGATIVITY”.
Have a wee word with yourselves.
John Main
Agreed.
Although I do think if Scotland did miraculously achieve Independence without the express consent of the majority some of the populace might be more than a wee bit miffed!
The romantics, the dreamers and the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade have no interest in the current wishes of the majority and simply do not seem to see the point of persuading people to change their point of view. It is all a huge conspiracy against the wishes of the REAL Scots, as they see themselves. Nobody else counts.
Everything is about hard cash. Realism is not their strong suit.
So now we have Main and Chas giving it the Ellis mantra of not enough Scots voted for independence only they use the declaring independence against the majority of voters will create massive riots and disruption version
YET they CHOOSE to continuously ignore the published FACT that a survey conducted by a world renowned university showed that Scots, that would be the indigenous kind or as they are known the world over as NATIVES did in fact vote FOR independence by 53% , it was just that the incomers who were OBVIOUSLY NOT NEW SCOTS didn’t want to be SCOTS they preferred to retain their nationality and allegiance to their place of birth , but they wanted the benefits of cheaper properties , the social benefits, the more open spaces and beautiful scenery , so they SELFISHLY and disgustingly saw fit to UNDERMINE and SABOTAGE a nations birthright by voting AGAINST INDEPENDENCE , THAT is some form of civic nationalism
I wonder if the Aborigines , the Maoris , the American First Nations , the Canadian First Nations or any indigenous peoples would be so civic minded to ALLOW their colonisers to direct the future history or direction of their country if they knew what they know now , i’m sure the Indians or Pakistanis believe in civic nationalism and would welcome a return to the english overlords
Chas
first and fore most. You did not just scroll past the nonsense as you call the grassroots commentary. you promised you would,
Second. I did not address you or name anyone else in that commentary comments I last posted. The feeling you have of being one of those trolls did not pass any of us by.
Third. I double checked my commentary above, and there is no where mentioned that trolls were less intelligent, although I indicated they might be running in a different channel or tracks.
Anyone in only the majority of Scots side of independence mantra whom was convinced the commentary was aimed at them…..
Well what can i say, how is it possible for such a small (minority) of Scots to help remedy such a majority of shoulder chips.
We obviously cannot.
As we are to wee an minority, and to stupid,
Guess the author time folks:
“If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side. If you want their votes, fucking well persuade them. If you can’t, your case is shit.
And stop whining that by saying this I’m trying to “shut down debate”. I have no power and no desire to stop you debating it. You can debate it all you want. I’m not reporting you to Twitter or the police. I’m just not interested.
We debated this in 2011 and we came to the right decision. Nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view. You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they’ll vote the wrong way.
’As well as being morally wrong, it’s almost certainly self-defeating. The Scotland you’d be trying to sell people under that franchise is a very different place to the one we were advocating in 2014, and very much for the worse.
That, of course, is true in many ways. If we got a referendum tomorrow I don’t in all honesty know if I could bring myself to campaign in it, because it’d be a *de facto* campaign for Nicola Sturgeon’s vision of a hellish, intolerant, incompetent and corrupt Scotland.
But that’s not a decision I need to lose sleep over, because we’re not getting a referendum tomorrow, or next year, or the year after that, or the year after that.
But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.”
Blood and Soil Little Englanders who temporarily share the same jurisdiction as native Scots are not soft Noes. And if they had any moral sense would refuse to exercise any democratic rights erroneously allowed them.
The rev is a good journalist and not right about everything. Giving your eternal existential enemies a veto on self determination is the dumbest c*nt move that any dumb c*nt has ever made in all of history.
Ellis has a blog but dissipates his talent by posting here; a man of his calibre and with his furious word count, maybe he could present us with his
manifesto for an indy scotland
and
tactical handbook for winning the conflict
forget clausewitz, sun tzu, go no rin sho and spike milligan – this is “the real gemme, at the big parks with nets and everything ”
as long as he makes it a bit more readable than his thesis, I am sure we will all devour it
title?
thus spoke andy-thustra
or
mystifications, by andus ellrelius
how hard can it be? Alf Baird wrote a book and so did Grousebeater, IanB too – and he right kicked their arses on the BTL and no mistake. And that Scott, calling him a narcissistic mediocrity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cveFy1Nwfw
Lawfully restricting the franchise just for one day, in order to petition the monarch directly in order to hold a referendum will have no impact on people born elsewhere. They’ll still get to vote to elect the new Parliament, because the Common Travel Area Treaty and Acts will still have effect, because everything will roll over seamlessly.
The 20% have less authority *on this sole matter* than ‘her that’s name shall not be mentioned’, and she didn’t have any here.
Andy.
I could,nt sleep, so idled through here to pass some time
Well i have to admit i never expect to smile at 3:30 in the morning.
Quote, We debated this in 2011, and we came to the right decision, nothing has happened that justifies abandoning that principle in my view, You can’t just disenfranchise people because you think they will vote the wrong way.
As well As well as being morally wrong, it is self defeating.
We do agree on something,
You cannot just disenfranchise people ( voters,) because you think they will vote the wrong way,
That is exactly what The English parliament admits to doing to all of the Scots, on their updated 2022 UK parliament site when they said in 1707 they disenfranchised the Scots people because The parliament thought the Scots would vote the wrong way.
You are saying exactly the same , and yet you get mad at us for holding the same moral principle as yourself.
The Great British Parliament came into its very existence under the same immoral principle of disenfranchising all of the Scots people, not just 20%.
As you will realise that if 20% of Scottish people do not get to vote, it could change the outcome,
That is exactly why we are angry at recently discovering,…
that WE as Scots and all the nation of Scotland consider were seriously wronged when we were disenfranchised as voters that changed the whole outcome of a vote on wether to join the treaty of the union or not.
It is the parallel to what you are saying is unprincipled and morally wrong.
We support you in your identification of wrong doing.
And under you’re principles of right and wrong way of whom should be included in a vote.
The Great Britain Parliament should never even have came into being or to exist.
As nearly 95 % the Scots were disenfranchised in 1707.
Andy Ellis says:
29 May, 2022 at 9:58 pm
Guess the author time folks:
“If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side.
Can you post a link to where this is being proposed? I suspect you are just making stuff up.
FAO Confused
You don’t get moderated for swearing. You are possibly using the same word in all your moderated posts.
A list of some of the words that can trigger moderation have already been posted they are not swear words.
Is anyone saying that people not born in Scotland shouldn’t be allowed a vote?
Confused says:
29 May, 2022 at 10:22 pm
Blood and Soil Little Englanders who temporarily share the same jurisdiction as native Scots are not soft Noes. And if they had any moral sense would refuse to exercise any democratic rights erroneously allowed them.
I am in agreement about the Constitutional franchise, and there are international benchmarks and precedents to lead the way, but I also think it needs said that Scotland’s current “Constitutional Fog” is perhaps not typical of the model.
There are people who continue to see Scottish Independence as an act of secession, which it cannot be. Scotland does not leave the Union, Scotland’s departure ends the Union, and thus all the consequences and ramifications of a state’s secession might fill hours and hours of online conversation, but yet be completely irrelevant to Scotland’s actual position.
The same is true with screed after screed written about IndyRef2 which takes Sturgeon at her word that the Section 30 route is the only lawful route to hold a Referendum. There are at least two things wrong with that;
First Holyrood’s codification through the Scotland Act arguably “might” bind Holyrood to respecting Westminster’s ascendancy, (debatable), but even if it does, the jurisdiction of that unconstitutional slight of hand expires at the front door, because throughout the realm of Scotland the people are sovereign.
Second. It is absolutely untrue that Scotland’s only lawful route out of the Union is through a Section 30 Approved Referendum. The Scottish Sovereignty Research Group has flagged up six alternatives to terminate the Union.
https://scottishsovereigntyresearchgroup.org/
(That link by the way prompts a warning, which I think we can interpret as “external interference”. Perhaps someone more internet savvy than me can help them out here.)
But returning to the franchise and Scotland being atypical of the “norm”, our perceptions and default settings regarding who is entitled to vote have been indoctrinated into us for decades. Our yardstick for what constitutes acceptable democracy and voters franchise is currently dictated by Westminster and Westminster’s Electoral Commission.
Heads up people! In 2016, Westminster’s wonderful voting franchise and “gold standard democracy” brazenly overuled Scotland’s emphatic democratic and sovereign rejection of Brexit and subjugated Scotland out of Europe against it’s will. If it needs pointed out to you that such a thing was a Constitutional OUTRAGE, then you’re just not paying attention. Do you really trust the same franchise and referendum protocols for IndyRef2?
We go into the next referendum / plebiscite election / Claim of Right / Decolonization ARMED with Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty right up at the front and backed by the International Community.
Breeks , thanks.
@Torette’s Ruby
It was proposed by Saffron Robe up thread. Various other moon howlers have proposed blood and soil qualifications or lengthy residence qualifications like 10 and 15 years which no other self determination referendum I’ve come across uses.
Nativists like to assert that what they are proposing is logical and what any country would do, as the aptly named “confused” does above. Oddly none of them will ever admit that virtually all the other self determination referendums since WW2 have used inclusive franchises allowing those resident to vote, not excluding people on the basis of their “ethnicity” or birth.
In a few cases places have imposed a limited residence criteria, usually 24 months. That’s probably defensible as there’s a precedent. Imposing longer periods would therefore be out of step with historical precedent, but also change the 2015 precedent for not particularly good reason other than a desire to move the goalposts as Rev Stu originally observed. That risks passing off “progressive” civic nationalists in Scotland to pander to a small minority of blood and soil ethnic nationalists who have minuscule support. It also risks broader international recognition. Those arguments haven’t changed.
The nativists still haven’t addressed them. It’s not the fault of the rest of the movement that a small minority are butt hurt about the 2014 result and want to queer the pitch for the re-run. They’ll fail because they have little support and because what they are proposing is politically regressive, morally repugnant and risks decreasing support for independence not increasing it.
Ellis,
You don’t seem to understand that calling people Nazis for disagreeing with you is not debate.
Telling people they are not allowed to have opinions is not debate.
Telling people that you are right and they are wrong is not debate.
Telling people they should believe the government narrative is not debate.
Telling people that the majority agree with you is not debate.
Telling people that don’t want an experimental vaccine is akin to drunk driving is not debate.
If Carlsberg did wet farts…
Have you had your Monkey Pox vaccine yet?
@Twathater 9:46
I have been against immigration, OF ALL KINDS, for longer than I care to remember. I don’t need lectures on the fundamentally changing effects of immigration on the destination country. FFS, I just need to stroll along the High Street with my eyes and ears open.
Nevertheless, all of these incomers we see every day are here for one reason only, a better life. FFS, what do you think they are, missionaries?
People who have already upped and offed to a new country cos they want more, will easily vote for Indy if you make it crystal clear they will get yet more again.
Simple human nature.
So, as I have said before, if Indy makes it clear and unambiguously crystal that we will all have more folding in our pockets after the event, then Scots, new Scots and everybody damn else will vote for it in sufficient numbers to make it happen.
@Breeks 8:26
If Brexit was an outrage, then where’s the outrage?
If Scots are sovereign, why hasn’t any Scot ever done anything that we could take as an example of a Scot using her or his sovereignty?
Why haven’t you?
Not really getting personal here Breeks, but the real-world gulf between what people write on here and what they actually do is starting to make me think Scots Indy has moved into the Metaverse.
@Breastplate
Lots of posters on here calling people Nazis, fascists, racists, cunts, scum, etc.
If you want to call people out about it, then you have to be consistent if you want to be credible.
And life’s too short IMO.
@Breastplate 10.24 am
Furiously straw manning what other people have said isn’t debate either.
Do better.
No John, I don’t,
I can be as specific as I like and if I decide to call out Ellis that is my prerogative.
You’re quite right Ellis but when my brain is in charge it refuses to take you seriously.
Regarding sovereignty, it’s completely fluid.
One day it might be a Monarch the next day it might be a rebellious people as many royal families have found out through history, as an example.
Whoever is wielding power at the time is in charge.
That’s the reality.
The legalities are for the courtrooms, which is another thing altogether.
Ruby says:
30 May, 2022 at 7:57 am
Andy Ellis says:
29 May, 2022 at 9:58 pm
Guess the author time folks:
“If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side.
Can you post a link to where this is being proposed? I suspect you are just making stuff up.
Er, Ruby … that was Stu Campbell on the Kings Over Spotland Twitter account (before it was deleted) on 13th July last year, across several connecting Tweets.
It is still available here:
https://seagullscirclemycorpse.wordpress.com/2021/07/15/hook-line-and-stinker/
It’s a rambling blog (which is a bit difficult to follow as to when the last post was made on it) run by someone called “The Rowdy Blacksmith”, which sounds like one of those pretend craft beers brought out by cynical brewers aimed at the “gift shop” market for double the usual asking price.
“The Rowdy Blacksmith … a daring little number from the microbrewery at Dundreich, full of citric hoppy notes with a rowsing aftertaste of thistle, heather honey, mildew and Nescafe Fine Roast Instant Expresso. Will go well with haggis, neeps, tatties, shortbread or lying at the back of a cupboard until required the perfect ‘Oh Sht we forgot to get them a present!’ emergency option …”
EXCELLENT article by Breeks published today on Yours for Scotland.
This is what the National should be plastering on its front page every day.
The Scottish PEOPLE are sovereign. NOT Holyrood as that is “made by Westminster”. Holyrood is a poodle [apologies to all gutsy poodles].
I know I have not been following my own advice recently but please don’t feed the trolls.
Mark Boyle says:
Er, Ruby … that was Stu Campbell on the Kings Over Spotland Twitter account (before it was deleted) on 13th July last year, across several connecting Tweets.
It is still available here:
https://seagullscirclemycorpse.wordpress.com/2021/07/15/hook-line-and-stinker/
It’s a rambling blog (which is a bit difficult to follow as to when the last post was made on it) run by someone called “The Rowdy Blacksmith”, which sounds like one of those pretend craft beers brought out by cynical brewers aimed at the “gift shop” market for double the usual asking price.
Are you telling me that Andy Ellis is arguing BTL here on Wings about something posted on a blog that was deleted last year?
I was expecting a simple answer.
ie ‘Stu Campbell on the Kings Over Spotland Twitter account’ said people not born in Scotland shouldn’t be allowed a vote?
PS I can’t be bothered reading a rambling blog.
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 9:06 am
@Torette’s Ruby
It was proposed by Saffron Robe up thread. Various other moon howlers have proposed blood and soil qualifications or lengthy residence qualifications like 10 and 15 years which no other self determination referendum I’ve come across uses.
10-15 years residence is totally different from ‘being born somewhere else’
Your posts would make more sense if you quoted the person you are arguing with and also if you kept them short and cut out the name calling.
Breeks.
It is interesting your mention of how Scottish people’s voting was ignored in the brexit exiting.
That was morally wrong and unprincipled.
And ignored the Scottish constitution.
Here On the Rev Stu’s site the Scottish people mostly are only just learning about Scottish Sovereignty , that they hold it and the posibilities for usage.
The Scottish Constitution has no parallels, in other countries that have tried going independent, such as Catalan.
It is wrote into the The treaty of union as a Claim of right , which means its very existence is acknowledged and was obviously discussed by the commissioners prior to this, by both sides of the treaty of the union before being signed.
It existence was not as a result of the treaty, but was incorporated into it so as not to be forgotten as Scottish Sovereignty history. And agreed by both sides of it’s reality.
However as we learn more and more about the Sovereignty of Scots, the important roll it may play on our route to a quicker legal independence perhaps,
We should not forget to ask Andy Ellis’s important point about disenfranchised voters,
With over 95% of Scots deliberately discussed by Englands parliament to be disenfranchised because they might vote the wrong way.
It is surreal to presume then or now the Scots ever voted to join the treaty of the union in 1707.
Andy Ellis is correct on this one,
Daily Express news,
Due to high winds in Scotland and an overload of energy, the wind turbine companies have been asked to turn of their wind turbines, causing an energy crises.
I don’t imagine the franchise for any IndyRef we might have will be different to the one in 2014.
I don’t have a problem with people discussing different possibilities I can’t understand why Ellis gets so heated about it. He takes it all too personally. It all gets really boring.
What would be interesting would be a discussion about the franchise for any possible English Independence referendum.
Would people living in England from the other three parts of the UK be allowed a vote?
I suspect the franchise would be rigged depending on whether Westminster did or did not want English independence.
Would people living in England from Scotland, N.Ireland & Wales vote from English independence?
Would England have to have a section 30?
Why were people from the EU allowed to vote in IndyRef2014?
Was it because they could be convinced that voting NO was the only way to guarantee EU membership?
Why were people from the EU not allowed to vote in the EU referendum?
@Tourette’s Ruby
Don’t hold others responsible for your inability to follow something. Similarly don’t try and have a go at people for name calling given your long record of “cunt calling” in here.
The piece originally quoted was a Twitter thread from Rev Stu’s cancelled Twitter account from last year. It’s hardly news, and it’s been discussed often, even though nativists never engage and try to refute its basic points. It is useful triggering them tho’ when they come on here bleating to be reminded that Rev Stu thinks they’re not even on the same side as mainstream civic nationalists, however much they might wish it was otherwise.
We KNOW there’s a difference between a 10-15 year residence criteria and a birth criteria. Saffron Robe proposed disenfranchising first generation Scots, i.e. anyone not born here. There is zero precedent for such a policy in any self determination referendum I’ve found, not is there a precedent for more than 2 years residence, and even then it’s a couple of examples. Facts are chiels that winnae ding.
Nativism rests on a regressive anti-civic nationalist position that it is OK to gerrymander the franchise to get the result you want by excluding a proportion of Scots because as a movement you don’t have a good enough argument to carry them with you.
Ruby says:30 May, 2022 at 2:07 pm
Are you telling me that Andy Ellis is arguing BTL here on Wings about something posted on a blog that was deleted last year?
I was expecting a simple answer. ie ‘Stu Campbell on the Kings Over Spotland Twitter account’ said people not born in Scotland shouldn’t be allowed a vote?
Andy Ellis was quoting Stu Campbell, on the now banned Kings Over Spotland Twitter, saying “If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side.”
That’s it.
Just thought someone ought to answer it (and show his working …) sooner rather than after it was buried by another flanking movement by the mighty 2nd Battalion of the Queen’s Own Strawmen, straight from their headquarters in Whataboutery, and supported by artillery from highly detachments of the Royal Tinhatters.
It is a Monday, after all, whereupon things tend to get silly round these here parts …
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 3:04 pm
@Tourette’s Ruby
Saffron Robe proposed disenfranchising first generation Scots,
So what? Not you not Saffron Robe or anyone else who isn’t a MP will get a say in what the franchise will be.
Basically it will be English MP’s who will decide on the franchise for any IndyRef we might have. Why are you getting your skid-marked panties in such a twist over a discussion about a franchise?
Serious question: Do you believe I have Tourettes?
It must getting close to the time to push through the GRA, here Stewart Hosie, another troughing SNP MP ask us all to keep our mouths shut and adhere to the official narrative (as the SNP sees it ).
Dissenting voices are the reason we won’t become independent is the message here.
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20174382.scottish-independence-campaign-set-yes-pledge-heart%2F
First it was the bridge linking Scotland to NI now this, I suppose the staging post in Edinburgh (Queen Elizabeth House) has to keep staff busy somehow.
“NETWORKS of tunnels connecting Scotland’s islands are being “seriously thought about” as an option to bring more sustainable travel to the communities, a UK minister has said.
Scotland Office minister Iain Stewart said that the Faroe Islands, which opened the world’s first undersea roundabout and where he has led a “fact-finding” mission, show what is possible.”
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20174789.tunnels-linking-scotlands-islands-seriously-considered-tories-say%2F
Mark Boyle says:
30 May, 2022 at 3:16 pm
Ruby says:30 May, 2022 at 2:07 pm
Are you telling me that Andy Ellis is arguing BTL here on Wings about something posted on a blog that was deleted last year?
I was expecting a simple answer. ie ‘Stu Campbell on the Kings Over Spotland Twitter account’ said people not born in Scotland shouldn’t be allowed a vote?
Andy Ellis was quoting Stu Campbell, on the now banned Kings Over Spotland Twitter, saying “If you want to deny 20% of the people who live in Scotland the vote in a referendum because they were born somewhere else, we’re not on the same side.”
Ever noticed what a suck up Ellis is. I’m guessing Stu Campbell was just using the term ‘you’ in general terms whereas Ellis was addressing his post to ‘Saffron Robe’ & other unnamed persons he refers to as ‘Moonhowlers’
“Nativism rests on a regressive anti-civic nationalist position that it is OK to gerrymander the franchise to get the result you want by excluding a proportion of Scots because as a movement you don’t have a good enough argument to carry them with you.”
The above from Agent Ellis is priceless, especially with this in mind.
Constituency boundaries are set to be redrawn. In the plans, England would gain 10 extra seats from Wales, which would lose eight, and Scotland, which would lose two. Gerrymandering eh Agent Ellis.
Republicofscotland says:
30 May, 2022 at 3:30 pm
It must getting close to the time to push through the GRA
GRA self-id shit will go the same way as the ‘Men behaving badly at the football’ or whatever it was called, the ‘Named Person’ malarky and everything else except the ‘Baby Boxes’ although I do wish they could call it something else.
Breeks.
If all available voters are deliberately not asked to vote because ” they” may vote the wrong way by a government.
The government is manipulating the outcome in to their favour.
It is unprincipled, morally wrong, it goes against a fair voting system in Britain and against democracy at all times.
It leaves the results very skewed and a appalling falsified result.
The voter is left outside of democracy, out side in the cold of political choice especially when the government is acting Sovereign in that manner over the people.
The voter is disenfranchised.
This Sovereignty of a government over the people, is a English principal, as Lord Cooper stated.
was illegal even in 1707 when the English government decided not to ask the Scottish voter to vote to join England and Scotland in union,
and the English parliament knowingly knew this to be in-moral, discussed it, unprincipled, discussed it,
and then proceeded to use English Law of parliamentary Sovereignty over the Scots Law of people Sovereignty before the treaty was signed or completed.
By concluding not to let a Sovereign Scot vote on the matter on joining the treaty of the union.
English laws and immoral principles over rode Scots Laws of people Sovereignty and of our constitution, in that manoveure
By deceitfulness.
But that deceit will return to its very roots. And source,
For now all Scots are learning that the Scots people were never asked to vote to join the treaty of the union in 1707,
By the deceit of the English Parliament it has caused a default position that the Scots have not voted to join the treaty of the union,
And were left outside a voting franchise to join altogether as a nation and country.
This error of manipulation of voters caused by the English Parliament’s desperation to get the treaty done has indeed created a flaw in the treaty itself.
The Scots did not vote to join the treaty of the union,
They were not asked to.
Englands Parliament did not want to ask the Scots people to join in case they voted the wrong way.
The succeeding Parliament of england into the Great Britain Parliament of today still records that the the Scots were not asked to vote in 1707, and gives the reason for that decision.
The English Parliament decided to use English Law of English Parliamentary Sovereignty over people, in contrast to Scots Law of Scots People Sovereignty before the treaty of the union was signed.
Which seriously hinders the treaty of the union as a legal document.
1. Scots Law of people Sovereignty.
2, English Law of Parliamentary
3 , disinfranchised voters.
“But I’ve officially lost any urge to even think about it, if even the people opposed to that awful vision just have a different kind of awful vision, of a country where only “ethnic Scots” have a say. Bollocks to that.””
Well Agent Ellis.
Maybe you could think about this new report instead.
“The origins of the Windrush scandal are rooted in 30 years of racist immigration legislation that was designed to reduce the number of non-white people living in the UK, according to a leaked government report.
The Windrush scandal was caused by decades of racist policies perpetuated by the government, a leaked British Home Office report has revealed.
“During the period 1950-1981, every single piece of immigration or citizenship legislation was designed at least in part to reduce the number of people with black or brown skin who were permitted to live and work in the UK,” the report states.”
Next to this lots our votes for those who were born here seems pretty tame.
https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/05/30/683005/UK-Windrush-Scandal-Report-
I’ve just discovered that one of the names Ellis uses to insult other posters triggers moderation.
1st word:
Name of this man: https://tinyurl.com/2p927436
2nd word:
His dog: https://tinyurl.com/2p86uwt6
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
I’ll repost without the banned word
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 3:04 pm
@Tourette’s Ruby
Don’t hold others responsible for your inability to follow something. Similarly don’t try and have a go at people for name calling given your long record of “cunt calling” in here.
I think everyone understands the word ‘cunt’ As in ‘that cunt Ellis’ What on earth does ‘Tourette’s Ruby’ ‘redacted’ ‘Moonhowlers etc etc actually mean?
You’ve just posted a long rambling post address to me when one single sentence would have been sufficient. What kinda daft game is this “Guess the author time folks” BTW does this author that you quoted have Tourette’s?
What has always puzzled me is why Nicola Sturgeon is able to interfere so much, or indeed at all, in Scots law (the ludicrous GRA for instance). By what authority is she acting that allows her to do so? The Treaty of Union guarantees the independence of Scots law and Westminster has no power to interfere in Scots law. The devolved government at Holyrood is devolved from Westminster and is therefore an arm of the Westminster government in Scotland. If Westminster can’t interfere in Scots law, then how can Holyrood which is a branch of the Westminster government? Sturgeon is acting as if she has the sovereign power to change Scots law but sovereignty in Scotland lies with the people of Scotland and not with a government devolved from Westminster. (Coincidentally, she also assumed sovereign powers which she does not have to enforce lockdown during the plandemic.) She has no authority to interfere with Scots law and in so doing is acting against Scottish sovereignty and the people of Scotland. She is a conduit or trojan horse for Westminster, allowing Scottish sovereignty and Scots law to be undermined from within. She is not a sovereign representative of Scotland (this can only be expressed through a people’s parliament or assembly), but a representative of the Westminster government and the English crown in Scotland (as illustrated by the oath that MSPs have to take). And this is why she has spectacularly failed to uphold Scotland’s constitutional and sovereign rights, such as her capitulation during Brexit, because she is not a sovereign representative tasked with upholding Scotland’s rights but actively working to undermine them as a functionary of the British state.
Which raises a wider constitutional issue. In England sovereignty rests with the monarch, in Scotland sovereignty rests with the people, and these are incompatible within a single sovereign body. Therefore, the UK parliament cannot be a sovereign body but only a joint administrative body (sovereignty remains with the monarch in England, the people in Scotland). The Treaty of Union protects Scots law (and thereby Scots sovereignty), and Westminster cannot interfere in Scots law because it does not have the sovereign power to do so. Hence, the UK parliament is not sovereign over Scotland (the Scottish people are). The only way that the UK parliament could attain sovereign powers over Scotland would be to impose English law on Scotland and subvert Scots law, which is what Carwyn Jones was warning about. However, Westminster is in a quandary, because Scots law is enshrined in the Treaty of Union, and they can only claim sovereignty over Scotland by explicitly breaking the treaty (and springing Scotland free from it). The UK government are aware of this, that the sovereignty of Westminster is only a convention and not an actuality (also something that Carwyn Jones explained), which is why Westminster does not want the Treaty of Union to be scrutinised, because when you do, and take into account the number of times Westminster has breached the treaty over the last 300 years in favour of the Kingdom of England, then the United Kingdom falls apart at the seams.
What, then, can be done? It is surely up to the judiciary, until such time as our sovereign parliament is restored, to protect Scots law and prevent it from being brought into disrepute. There must be a mechanism, no matter how dormant or ancient, by which Sturgeon can be brought to book for her treachery.
I also think it is essential to set up a constitutional committee to investigate all these issues, detail Scotland’s constitutional status and rights, the many breaches of the Treaty of Union by Westminster since its inception, and outline the constitutional route to independence.
I appreciate that things may look bleak at the moment, but I hold to Alf Baird’s assertion (if I understand him correctly) that at the tail end of colonialism the colonised will seek accommodation with the coloniser, and that Sturgeon’s tenure is only an inevitable final symptom on the road to independence. Perhaps the light is indeed darkest just before the dawn.
Andy Ellis says:
The piece originally quoted was a Twitter thread from Rev Stu’s cancelled Twitter account from last year. It’s hardly news, and it’s been discussed often, even though nativists never engage and try to refute its basic points.
—-
EuRef of 2016 disenfranchised residents of Scotland, but just for one day. (There’s domestic precedent Andy, which trumps external)
Indyref2 should do the same just for one day, disenfranchise those residents who aren’t recorded in Scotland’s register of births. (subject to relevant laws re spouses & children)
The Scots alone have the right to self-determination, because we are the people of Scotland.
This basic point has been articulated frequently, and shall continue to be so…
Saffron Robe.
In response to you’re analyses, may i start on the end piece of your commentary.
Part of the constitutional committies’s title should be the explanation of what it is.
Does it do or represent what it says it is,on the box?
It has to say the Sovereign Scottish Peoples Constitutional Committee.
Nothing can be ever be set up again as separate entity from the Scots people that could divert or misuse its power over us as a separate state from the people,
As i keep saying to Breeks, it is the Scottish Constitution that the people are Sovereign in Scotland, there should be no back door out.
As to NS not having the authority to insist on lockdowns in Scotland, it can only be Advisory,
Many times i mentioned this peoples Sovereignty in Scotland issue as a Scottish issue during covid on this site,
And many took it up the wrong way, as being an anti- vaxxer stance,
this was never the position I was taking.
NS started the lockdowns knowing Scots Law, on TV admitting it could only be advisory in Scotland,
But then as things progressed, power went to her head and she started legislating [ changing Scots Law ] as a branch instigated of Westminster government in Scotland, which is run by civil servants of Westminster and through the oath to the queen in the devolved parliament.
We also see her changing Scots Law with legislation on the Trans issue,
For since the beginning of time our Scottish Laws have only accepted or acknowledged Two sexes wrote into the Laws of Scots Law.
The old Scots Law is binding at the signing of the treaty of the union. Not to be altered.
If the British parliament claims the treaty of the union is binding to the Scots,
Then so are those very same principles in the articles of the union.
However i summarise that the Sovereign Scot was never asked to vote to join the treaty of the union in the first instance as explained above.
This being the case NS position in passing legislation and new laws for the Sovereign Scots from a devolved branch of British government is even more precarious.
As she nor evolved government are not Sovereign in Scotland
As SCOTT pointed the Scots have the Right to “self determination” as a nation
This in of it self says the Scots are Sovereign,
add the “Claim of right” for Scots to choose their own government of their choice, and we have one more official statement to say Scots are Sovereign.
Then we take the English Parliaments statement updated in 2022, were it recognises that the Scots Were a Separate entity from the Then Scottish government called the Three Estates.
For although the Three Estates had said yes to joining a Treaty of union with the Scottish Parliament in joining with Englands
Both England’s parliament And Scotlands Parliament decided against involving Scots in which they both treated the Scots as a third separate independent entity.
@Ruby says 30 May, 2022 at 3:26 pm
“Serious question: Do you believe I have Tourettes?”
Well, you certainly posted to make that claim.
Serious question. Do I believe anything you post? Or put another way: do I believe you ever post in good faith?
Tumbleweed time.
And another thing. You posted several times that you don’t read my posts, or Andy’s posts. So what’s with the questions, to Andy mostly, but sometimes to me?
Saffron Robe, James Che, etc.
Enough, I get it, we Scots are sovereign.
So now what?
Tell you what though. When I think back to this time last year on here, when many of the same suspects posting today were calling down death or exile on sovereign Scots who didn’t want to get vaxed, wear masks, or hide away inside, I really wish there had been more made of the sovereignty issue then.
John Main
Let them drone on all day, every day amongst themselves, but don’t expect an answer to ‘So now what.
Just don’t read their effluent. It keeps them off the streets.
@RoS
“Constituency boundaries are set to be redrawn. In the plans, England would gain 10 extra seats from Wales, which would lose eight, and Scotland, which would lose two. Gerrymandering eh Agent Ellis.”
Well no, that doesn’t constitute gerrymandering. In fact it proves the opposite, as the proposed boundary alterations mean that virtually all UK constituencies will have the same number of inhabitants (around 73,000). There are only 5 exceptions for special cases: 2 constituencies for the Isle of Wight, 1 for Anglesey, 1 for Western Isles and 1 for Orkney and Shetland. So in fact if anything Scotland has a privileged position as it has more protected constituencies.
Good to see you’re maintaining your record of being wrong about…well…just about anything you touch.
@Scott 6.07 pm
The EU Ref Act was passed by the Tories to queer the pitch in their favour. Obviously EU citizens would vote heavily Remain. What you and other nativists are doing is therefore the same tactic. Nice bedfellows you have. Civic nationalism is supposed to be better than that, which is why franchise restriction is regressive.
Just because you say “domestic precedent trumps external” doesn’t make it convincing, far less true.
If you and others have their way and restrict the franchise to those born here, and potentially their spouses and children which is generous of you, it will lose the movement the support of a lot of people because the kind of Scotland you’re punting wouldn’t represent civic nationalism it would represent ethnic nationalism.
The nativists definition of who qualifies as a Scot isn’t one that will lead to independence, it’ll lead to defeat. Still…you’ll have your purity though, eh…?
John Main.
I wish a bigger issue of sovereignty had been discussed during covid to john, not because of vaccinated or unvaccinated position,
Which everyone more less or took up the wrong way,
But because NS was acting way above her station when it came to herself, taken it upon herself to act as a illegal sovereign over Scots. beyond her legal position.
She started off the masks and lockdowns in the correct legal position, as only advisory in Scots Law, during the early days of BBC coverage,
Then she realised it excused her from many other troubles and let power go to her head and finger tips like some crazed witch on TV doing 24/7 Speeches.
Your question is a good one,
What do we do with it now,?
We continue to let all of the people in Scotland know what Sovereignty actually means to them. How important it is,
The reason that not much was said during covid times is not many people in Scotland knew about then and many still dont.
We could certainly put it to use when NS over reaches and breaches Scots laws on Tran issues as well as lockdowns . Or free speech bans entering into private rights in Scots Law.
She is acting illegal against the Scottish Constitution,
What a load of crap is being typed in this topic these days.
Independence or what?
I agree with Scott. Since the Scots are sovereign in their own country, then sovereignty is conferred by birthright in Scotland, and not by bloodline as it would be in a monarchy. In other words, you don’t need to have a Scottish bloodline to be a sovereign Scot, but you do need to have been born here (or born of Scottish parents if you were born outwith Scotland).
Interestingly, that is why Scotland is one of the few countries, if not the only country, to have two national flags. The Saltire is the parliamentary flag, the flag of the sovereign parliament of the people, and the Lion Rampant is the royal flag of the Scottish monarchs. The Scottish monarchs were always of the people and not above the people. That is why they could be removed if they did not defend the sovereign rights of the Scots. And perhaps the same mechanism in Scots law can be used to remove Sturgeon for failing to uphold Scotland’s constitutional rights.
James C.,
I very seldom disagree with what you write and I am again in agreement regarding the powers that Sturgeon assumed during the pandemic. I am aware that you were the first to articulate it and my apologies for not giving you due credit.
As regards the constitutional committee, which has been mooted previously, I was envisioning that it would only be a committee, not necessarily having any powers in and of itself, but a body to prepare the groundwork for the restoration of our independence.
And if i were living in England, i would be asking a very similar question to my government,
Whom gave you Sovereignty over us the people that are the backbone of England,
The welsh leader kindly forewarned us, but all people should have Sovereignty.
Governments should work for the people,
Not the people work for governments.
What is the point in voting if the government decides the outcome of your vote.
@Tourette’s Ruby
“Serious question: Do you believe I have Tourettes?”
It seems an entirely reasonable assumption based on the evidence and the MO in here. Alternatively of course you’re just a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
You’re not important enough for me to spend any time deciding which.
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 9:17 pm
If you and others have their way and restrict the franchise to those born here, and potentially their spouses and children which is generous of you, it will lose the movement the support of a lot of people because the kind of Scotland you’re punting wouldn’t represent civic nationalism it would represent ethnic nationalism.
The nativists definition of who qualifies as a Scot isn’t one that will lead to independence, it’ll lead to defeat. Still…you’ll have your purity though, eh…?
FFS it’s the same thing over and over and over again. How do you know which franchise will lead to independence. For all you know the voters in Scotland might like the idea of ethnic nationalism could be preferable to colonisation. I fail to understand why you are so determined to keep this debate about the franchise going. Is it because you want to score points with your Rev Stu?
What a suck up!
Ha! Ha! Ha! I love it that your Rev Stu has put one of your abusive names for ‘Republicofscotland’ on the banned list! It’ll be Tourette’s Ruby next!
I’ll ask you again. Do you believe I have Tourette’s?
Only a cunt would make a fool of someone with a disability.
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 9:48 pm
@Tourette’s Ruby
“Serious question: Do you believe I have Tourettes?”
It seems an entirely reasonable assumption based on the evidence and the MO in here. Alternatively of course you’re just a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
You’re not important enough for me to spend any time deciding which.
I repeat only a cunt would make a fool of someone with a disability you are the one who is a very nasty piece of work.
Saffron robe,
I agree with you that it is named as a Scottish birth right, ie the Scots.
I do not know Andy Ellise’s background but I thought he mentioned he was born in Scotland. So cannot speak accurately on that subject.
But yes I totally agree with you a Scot cannot be an Italian born in iItaly, nor a Chinese man born in China, nor a Russian born in Russia, nor an Australian born in Australia, etc,
as these people are still recognised on passports, birth certificates etc by their place of birth.
A Scots man by definition therefore must mean a man born to the country Scotland. It would be on his birth certificate for example, and excepted by all.
When BJ repeated someone else’s work and emphasised the wished to “exterminate the Scots,”
I am pretty sure he did not mean English people or American people living in Scotland.
As he calls them a race of people, ie “Scots”
Saffron Robe,
I would presume any one born in Scotland would claim to be Scots,
but it is also something much deeper within the sole and heart of every Scots person that has struggled generation after generation to be free in their own country.
For many a Scot has been born, that has sold Scotland and its people to the devil.
For these are Scots that lack that feeling for their country of birth.
I would hope one day after Scotland has gained its independence i will be adopted by one of you or by the country of Scotland to become a Scot.
My great grandparents are Scottish, but I alas cannot make that claim.
However it pleases my sole that you acknowledge my fight over the sovereignty of the Scot and Scots Law when it came to NS taken it on herself to act as sovereign Queen over the Scots during covid lockdowns.
Meanwhile for Scotland and the Scots I fight for every Scot to regain his sovereign rights, his home land and the right to govern themselves regardless.
That is democracy.
Actually I might be a bit old to be adopted 🙂
Not everyone born in Scotland considers themselves be Scottish there are a fair number who consider themselves to be British.
Andy Ellis
Coprolalia, the involuntary utterance of obscenities, profanities and derogatory remarks, is an extreme example of a vocal tic experienced by some people with Tourette’s.
There is NO evidence to support the idea that a sufferer from Coprolalia would be unable to control what he types on a computer or phone, especially when a further voluntary action, “Submit Comment” is needed afterwords.
Suffering from Tourette’s or Coprolalia cannot be a cause of, or excuse for, written obscenities or derogatory remarks on a site like this one.
I have lived in scotland longer than some Scots people whom are not as old as i am.
I was raised here, I went to primary and secondary schools here, my children were born here, my grand children were born here.
I have younger and brothers and sisters born here, but my fathers work took him away elsewhere at the time I was due to be born,
So my birth certificate says I am not Scottish.
That is the way the cookie crumbles,
If you are not Scottish by birth, it means you cannot pretend to be.
John Main says:
30 May, 2022 at 10:56 pm
Andy Ellis
Coprolalia, the involuntary utterance of obscenities, profanities and derogatory remarks, is an extreme example of a vocal tic experienced by some people with Tourette’s.
There is NO evidence to support the idea that a sufferer from Coprolalia would be unable to control what he types on a computer or phone, especially when a further voluntary action, “Submit Comment” is needed afterwords.
Suffering from Tourette’s or Coprolalia cannot be a cause of, or excuse for, written obscenities or derogatory remarks on a site like this one.
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
YCBS! Are posters really discussing whether someone who swears on a blog does or does not have Tourette’s? Mad as a box of frogs!
James Che. says:
30 May, 2022 at 11:08 pm
If you are not Scottish by birth, it means you cannot pretend to be.
Well of course you can you just say you were born in the ‘wrong place’. You may even be able to get your birth certificate changed. 🙂
Watching Scotland Tonight a touch of deja vu. The Laffer Curve. Remember that debate?. The more you raise tax on people the less revenue you get. And so it transpired who would have believed it?. A deficit of 200m with the prospect of a deficit of 2billion plus in 4 years time. Much of the MSM commentary in Scotland are waking up. Whether Independence supporters like Kevin McKenna or a Unionist supporter like Neil Oliver. Their commentary has been withering. I don’t disagree with either of them.
James Che. @ 11:08 pm
“If you are not Scottish by birth, it means you cannot pretend to be.”
That is not necessarily the case. As the writer James Kelman reputedly said: ‘if you want to know your national identity look at who your relatives are.’
James Che. says:
30 May, 2022 at 11:08 pm
If you are not Scottish by birth, it means you cannot pretend to be.
Never stopped Rod Stewart … 😛
At Rev Stu at my 10.02pm comment I apologise for claiming my comments were removed , on checking it appears I was wrong , however they are both still in moderation
Robert Hughes says on 29 May, 2022 at 6:08 pm:
“Aye those lizard/human interface , Flat Earth believing , Illumninati whackos really ought to stay off the Icke acid and start listening to sensible Guardian-reading types who KNOW there’s no such thing as Elites of various hues exerting immense influence on how we think , what we believe to be true , what information we receive and – crucially , what information we don’t receive . It’s all nonsense , isn’t it ?”
https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/ten-times-empire-managers-showed?s=w&fbclid=IwAR1SY5o0g_ig9QJPNMID9MVXncVtIcZavNV17tSCzILdk_G2QYvGs4buO8I
Thanks for that, Robert. Worth re-posting, so i did. Have you seen this one? Not for everyone as it’s a very deep read but even a quick scan through most of the thread gives a general idea of things. It’s an old thread but still extremely relevant: https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1277257383765577728
For those interested: After you click on my link in my post above, you need to then click on the part that says “Show this thread”, in the bottom left-hand corner under “reuters.com”.
Andy Ellis says:
30 May, 2022 at 9:03 pm
Well no, that doesn’t constitute gerrymandering. In fact it proves the opposite, as the proposed boundary alterations mean that virtually all UK constituencies will have the same number of inhabitants (around 73,000). There are only 5 exceptions for special cases: 2 constituencies for the Isle of Wight, 1 for Anglesey, 1 for Western Isles and 1 for Orkney and Shetland. So in fact if anything Scotland has a privileged position as it has more protected constituencies.
—-
Jurisdiction of Scots law extends to the maritime border, airspace and the land border between Scotland & England.
Scotland is twice the size but will only have 57 (-2) MPs compared to England’s 543 (+10), as proposed.
‘Gerrymandering’ is unavoidable when 2 distinct legal systems may at times not give consent to legislation, but the one with more representatives will always have the power to force Acts through.
[English law guides elections in England, Scots law in Scotland. The expressed wish of the people of Scotland has a legal status; this aspect of Scots law (and others) is recognised in English law, but only when it suits, apparently.]
Scotland is in a right privileged position at Westminster, Andy?
You should be banned from this site,
and appointed to SNP front bench at Westminster. I bet you do a great Ian Blackford impersonation, you’ve the build and verbosity.
I saw your photie in the Daily Nazi, that time you willingly gave an interview about Cybernats & their “online poison”, even though no evidence was produced of any poisonous twitter cybernattery from you.
“The Edinburgh-born former politics student appears to be one of the more temperate cybernats, though at times he is a near-fanatical supporter of Wings”
https://archive.ph/0XuUz#selection-2069.0-2069.151
I might get in touch with Graham Grant, author of the piece from 2014 to get the article updated…temperate my arse, cybernat yer hole. TC Ellis probably still has his email address and/or mobile number.
https://www.salvo.scot/
New permanent link in your list Rev Stu?
Spread the word folks. The Claim of Right is the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland’s people. It can lead us to Independence, and the sooner it’s on everybody’s lips, the closer we get to ending the UK.
This is the truth about Scotland which Westminster Unionists want buried and forgotten. It is the knowledge they want indoctrinated out of us. It is your duty as a Scot, yes even a new Scot, to read it. Take it in. Immerse yourselves in it. Understand it. Make yourself conversant with it and start spreading the word throughout Scotland and abroad.
The “Right” in the Claim of Right is sovereignty. It is the Right of Scotland’s people to choose our own government, a right which is distilled directly from the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath where Scots asserted the right to depose their King and saw it codified and recognised both in heaven and earth in 1328.
Scotland is not a Region, Scotland is a Nation. That isn’t just a slogan. Scotland is a Nation currently in an InterNATIONal Treaty with England which has been breached and abused once to often. Dissolve the Union. Or is there no end to the insult, theft, impoverishment and provocation which you intend to put up with?
The traps and tendrils of innumerable “conventions” designed to keep Scotland bound to this Union are contrived acts of sophistry which do not have the strength to defeat or take away our sovereignty. All that Scotland requires is that we know this.
The sophistry of the pickpocket might give him command of the wallet, but it doesn’t reward his theft with ownership.
Stoker
If you are interested in elites and the “deep state”, check out the in-depth interview with Dominic Cummings “I don’t like parties”, published online on Unherd today.
Much info from him about his dealings with the people who are really running the country.
And if anybody wants more ammo to support Scottish Indy, read what he has to say about the disfunctional shitshow that is 10 Downing Street, Boris, the Tories, Starmer, etc.
twathater says:
31 May, 2022 at 1:52 am
At Rev Stu at my 10.02pm comment I apologise for claiming my comments were removed , on checking it appears I was wrong , however they are both still in moderation
You could try to find out which word is triggering moderation remove it and re-post. It has been my experience that posts never come out of moderation. A new word/name was added to the banned list very recently. Perhaps you mentioned the ‘President of Russia’s French Dog’ in your post.
🙂
Testing
Poodle
Testing
Putain’s
The name of the president of Russian triggers moderation.
@Scott 7.24 am
Och, I see you’ve been triggered again Scot. No point getting yourself frothed into such a lather about something you’re so wrong about. The boundary commission changes can’t be gerrymandering because they’re equalising seats across the UK based on population, and the maximum number of MPs being set at 650. Apart from 5 seats which are “protected” because they’re islands, 2 of which are in Scotland, all the other seats are being standardised to have similar electorates of around 70-75,000.
It has nothing to do with geographic area you utter plank. Wales is losing 8 seats because it was relatively over represented. It’s so simple that any primary school pupil could grasp the principle, but you still feel the need to go off on one about it being unfair. Get a grip.
Why you think Stu would ban someone for posting facts is beyond me. Doubtless he will give your input all the consideration it deserved. It didn’t exactly go well for Republic of Scotland last time he appealed to a higher authority from memory: he’s still applying Savlon to the burn Stu gave him for the factual inaccuracies he posted about Faslane.
Still, good to see that I’m still living rent free in your head and that your slightly creepy obsession is keeping you occupied. It won’t go unnoticed that as one of the regressive nativists you’re happy to be a fellow traveller of the Daily Heil. I imagine a lot of the blood and soil types insisting you can’t really be Scottish unless you’re born here will feel right at home in that company?
OMG so many banned words.
The opening of the R****m through which stool passes out of your body
4 letters beginning with a and ending in s
R****m and A**s both trigger moderation.
Can you guess what these words are? You’ll know if you get it right as your post will go into moderation.
S*t*lers I think everyone knows already that’s banned.
Great stuff Breeks.
Independence is just around the corner! Let’s not even consider the greater than 50% of Scots who currently do not want it. Why bother putting any effort into convincing them that Independence would be better for us all?
Please tell us when The Claim of Right is the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland’s people is on everybody’s lips what happens next!
Andy Ellis says:
31 May, 2022 at 8:49 am
@Scott 7.24 am
Och, I see you’ve been triggered again Scot
I see you’ve been triggered AGAIN Andy. LOL So easily triggered.
Chas says:
31 May, 2022 at 9:05 am
Great stuff Breeks.
Independence is just around the corner! Let’s not even consider the greater than 50% of Scots who currently do not want it. Why bother putting any effort into convincing them that Independence would be better for us all?
Please tell us when The Claim of Right is the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland’s people is on everybody’s lips what happens next!
Ever considered that Breeks doesn’t read your posts?
Perhaps he’s ‘letting you drone on all day, every day amongst yourselves’
Maybe ‘he just doesn’t read your effluent.’
Yourselves = The Bonkers Brigade. Chas, Main & Andy
Scots law & Scotland’s borders are strange things to mock for someone seeking their independence…but ndls61 excels.
I didn’t know the ‘Cybernat 7’ or Daily Nazi article existed until Andy Ellis mentioned it btl (as a reminder to those already in the know, so nobody is my guess lolz). I’d have told the journalist to fuck off, not willingly give a quote.
My neighbour read some of his btl comments, the Nazi’s article and his blog. She now wants to come to Edinburgh, to witness me pointing & laughing at TCE if I saw him in the street, which I will do should it ever happen.
We’ll see who’s triggered then.
Now that we appear to be getting over Covid, Monkey Pox is the new scare story. Even worse, a new case of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy has been identified in Edinburgh.
Get well soon Ruby!
“Well no, that doesn’t constitute gerrymandering. ”
Agent Ellis @9.03pm.
In my opinion it constitutes gerrymandering on a national scale (not a political party scale)the nation in question gerrymandering is England, its very convenient (dressed up as fairness) that both Scotland and Wales lose seats and England gains seats, it will make the already heavily weighed in England’s favour Westminster parliament even more lopsided.
Of course I’m not surprised (you a diehard independence supporter NOT) isn’t in the slightest outraged at this.
If only the SNP MP and long term trougher Tommy Sheppard was as enthusiastic about pushing his boss Sturgeon the betrayer on moving her arse on Scottish independence, still this is at least a small step in the right direction as this Jubliee shite, is nothing but Ruritanian bollocks.
Royalty is any shape or form is an affront to society.
“A Rally for a Republic will be held in Edinburgh during the Jubilee, advocating that Scotland become “a modern, forward-thinking republic with a written constitution”.
Taking place at Calton Hill on June 4, the rally will be addressed by a range of speakers including SNP MP Tommy Sheppard, who has previously said of the monarchy: “If we strive for an open and inclusive society where everyone is valued and respected, we need to leave this outdated and anachronistic institution behind.””
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20176454.edinburgh-rally-offer-republican-alternative-jubilee-scotland%2F
Ruby says:
31 May, 2022 at 9:17 am
Ever considered that Breeks doesn’t read your posts?
Shhh! Ruby. That’s my Escape and Evasion strategy rumbled for all of “them”. 😉 lol
You appear not to have the courage to argue your convictions Breeks.
Just ignore any ‘obstacles’ and they will all disappear. The thing is-they won’t! Another romantic dreamer.
Let’s compare and contrast types of nationalism shall we:
Nativists:
James Che, 10.11 pm “But yes I totally agree with you a Scot cannot be an Italian born in iItaly, nor a Chinese man born in China, nor a Russian born in Russia, nor an Australian born in Australia, etc, as these people are still recognised on passports, birth certificates etc by their place of birth.”
Civic nationalists:
Ruth Wishart: “It is entirely possible that the Scottish diaspora would vote for independence. Maybe in huge numbers. That’s not the point – the franchise belongs to those who pay Scotland the ultimate compliment of making her their home. Wherever they were born.” (Twitter post, 02/09/20).
Scott says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:24 am
[at Andy Ellis]
You should be banned from this site … I saw your photie in the Daily Nazi, that time you willingly gave an interview about Cybernats & their “online poison”, even though no evidence was produced of any poisonous twitter cybernattery from you.
“The Edinburgh-born former politics student appears to be one of the more temperate cybernats, though at times he is a near-fanatical supporter of Wings”
https://archive.ph/0XuUz#selection-2069.0-2069.151
I might get in touch with Graham Grant, author of the piece from 2014 to get the article updated…temperate my arse, cybernat yer hole. TC Ellis probably still has his email address and/or mobile number.
So one moment you’re saying that you might get in touch with a journalist … the next for the benefit of scoring points, you claim to Andy you wouldn’t:
Scott says: 31 May, 2022 at 9:54 am
I didn’t know the ‘Cybernat 7’ or Daily Nazi article existed until Andy Ellis mentioned it btl (as a reminder to those already in the know, so nobody is my guess lolz). I’d have told the journalist to fuck off, not willingly give a quote.
Finally, just to cap it all, you come away with:
My neighbour read some of his btl comments, the Nazi’s article and his blog. She now wants to come to Edinburgh, to witness me pointing & laughing at TCE if I saw him in the street, which I will do should it ever happen. We’ll see who’s triggered then.
Jesus Johnny, you’re a fking psycho son, and then some!
Andy Ellis, FFS just ignore this fruitloop, he’s clearly VERY disturbed.
@Mark Boyle 12.01 pm
Oh this has been going on for months and months. He’s been called out for it by others BTL in the past too, but it makes no difference. Definitely kinda disturbed and obsessive behaviour. He does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time researching my background and personal life. Stalkerish behaviour certainly.
He must have very little else in his life. If it weren’t so creepy it’d be a bit sad really. Of course little better can be expected from snivelling anonymous cowards hiding behind their anonymity can it?
@Mark Boyle 12:01
Come on now, Mark. This place may not be educating us much these days, but it sure makes up for it in entertainment.
I always enjoy the posts from writers who claim they never read certain other writer’s posts. But then go on to be triggered anyways.
Perhaps they get their carers to read the posts for them, and then tell them the contents?
Given the level of conspiracy theorising here, how do they know their carers are not lying to them, just because? Carers need some entertainment too, right?
@ Vlad’s ding-a-ling 11.19 am
I’m not sure what facts you’re trying to dispute? The planned boundary changes make things more equal, not less. Excluding 5 protected island constituencies, all the other 645 seats will have roughly the same number of voters +/- 5% (called the electoral quota). Wales was over represented, so loses 8 seats. Scotland loses 2.
If you’re arguing that Scotland and Wales should be allowed to have more seats than their proportionate share of the voting population, then you’re the one supporting gerrymandering.
Facts are chiels that winnae ding, however hard you try to wring a grievance out of them.
Andy Ellis says:
31 May, 2022 at 12:43 pm
@Mark Boyle 12.01 pm
He does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time researching my background and personal life. Stalkerish behaviour certainly.
He must have very little else in his life. If it weren’t so creepy it’d be a bit sad really. Of course little better can be expected from snivelling anonymous cowards hiding behind their anonymity can it?
—
Blimey, I wonder what the reaction of Mark Boyle and Andy Ellis would have been if I’d mentioned that I hadn’t heard of Andy Ellis or his blogs, or his comments on other people’s blogs his blog posts were about, apart from the very first one which set the scene for the story in the Daily Nazi 2 days later, on Burn’s Day either until btl on here.
PS: I’d have got in touch with the hack anonymously c/o Daily Nazi. If he works elsewhere it’ll get forwarded. If he’s deid it’ll get returned to the address on the back…Ellis’ old hoose in Sussex (address c/o Companies House).
@ John Main on 31 May, 2022 at 8:06 am
Thanks for that, John. Noted!
This from Breeks is worth promoting but if we are to start the “education” process then the message has to be simplified. Quite frankly the majority are just not interested in politics beyond “what’s in it for me?” (or more to the point, their wallets & purses). I’ve bookmarked this and will promote it from time to time on here because i’m no-longer with the bird on the wire (Twatter). And a lot of folk these days just don’t like long reads, ie: anything more than a paragraph or two. It takes a certain skill to condense a very important message into something folk won’t automatically bin on-sight. Anyone up for it?
https://www.salvo.scot/
“New permanent link in your list Rev Stu?”
“Spread the word folks. The Claim of Right is the Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland’s people. It can lead us to Independence, and the sooner it’s on everybody’s lips, the closer we get to ending the UK.”
“This is the truth about Scotland which Westminster Unionists want buried and forgotten. It is the knowledge they want indoctrinated out of us. It is your duty as a Scot, yes even a new Scot, to read it. Take it in. Immerse yourselves in it. Understand it. Make yourself conversant with it and start spreading the word throughout Scotland and abroad.”
“The “Right” in the Claim of Right is sovereignty. It is the Right of Scotland’s people to choose our own government, a right which is distilled directly from the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath where Scots asserted the right to depose their King and saw it codified and recognised both in heaven and earth in 1328.”
“Scotland is not a Region, Scotland is a Nation. That isn’t just a slogan. Scotland is a Nation currently in an InterNATIONal Treaty with England which has been breached and abused once to often. Dissolve the Union. Or is there no end to the insult, theft, impoverishment and provocation which you intend to put up with?”
“The traps and tendrils of innumerable “conventions” designed to keep Scotland bound to this Union are contrived acts of sophistry which do not have the strength to defeat or take away our sovereignty. All that Scotland requires is that we know this.”
“The sophistry of the pickpocket might give him command of the wallet, but it doesn’t reward his theft with ownership.”
Feeling triggered by this.
https://archive.ph/KXQUY
It isn’t the damned YES Movement needing a Code of Conduct, but the idle teflon turncoats in the SNP.
The YES Movement needs a goddamned medal and a pension for it’s eight long years of patience!
So the first nativist actions on record of gerrymandering votes to achieve a fixed outcome result that I can found that is within Britain.
Is on the UK Parliamentary site dating back to 1706/7 recorded and updated 2022.
Where the then, English Parliament acting in a very nativist manner decided not to give the Scots people and nation a vote to join the Treaty of the Union, As the other natives up north would probably vote the wrong way to what the England native Parliament wanted the result to be.
That is gerrymandering votes on record.
Stoker says:
31 May, 2022 at 2:04 pm
….It takes a certain skill to condense a very important message into something folk won’t automatically bin on-sight. Anyone up for it?
Sorry, doing my best. I tried to make it shorter by chopping the ‘o’ off too….
“Scotland is a Nation currently in an InterNATIONal Treaty with England which has been breached and abused once too often.”
Some people might have thought it was a typo… 🙂
@Breeks 2.21 pm
Who appointed AIM as custodian of the independence movement’s conscience?
I noted yesterday they talked about accepting the definitions of discrimination and prejudice (listed as “including but not limited to homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, Anglophobia, ableism, misogyny, ageism, antisemitism, islamophobia and ethnic nationalism.) and that they accepted the definitions of those terms as adopted by the political parties active in the Yes movement.
So we’re Alba invited along? How about the rampant homophobia and misogyny called out by the likes of Joanna Cherry amongst the ranks of the SNP and Greens? If folk think TRA in the movement have been breaking this Code of Conduct, who do they report it to, and what action will be taken, and who will take it? AIM? “The Yes Movement”?
If Stuart Hosie wants to build bridges, what is he going to do about TRA extremists in his own party?
As to where you are born deciding wether you are Scottish or not,
I have taken my que from Englands Westminster Parliament,
The WINDRUSH people were sent back home by the British Parliament,
Because they were not considered natives to Britain.
So the British Parliament resting in England thinks that if you are not born in a country, you are of a different nationality. Ie not native.
It also tried sending home the second generation born in Britain , considering them also not to be natives to Britain.
Perhaps it is not the native Scots you should be having this argy bargy with,
But Englands native Parliament of Britain.
Of course none of these nativist actions were taken by anyone in the yes for an independent Scotland movement.
Breeks.
Thank you for explaining further the case for Scots Sovereignty and its roots.
“I saw your photie in the Daily Nazi,”
Scott @7.24am.
Thanks for the heads up on Ellis, his age would be right for his avatar of Max Headroom. His creepy looks are what I expected.