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Firing blanks

Posted on May 22, 2022 by

This is getting properly embarrassing.

Because that starting gun must be red-hot by now.

It was previously fired nine months ago.

It was fired in April 2019.

(Alert readers may notice that 2021 has come and gone, the Scottish Government has NOT acted and Scotland has very much NOT been saved from Brexit.)

It was fired in May 2018.

It was fired in March 2017.

It was fired in October 2016.

It had already been fired in June of that year.

As far as we can tell, it was first fired in September 2015.

Amusingly, the six-year period in that headline expired eight months ago and we’re still no closer to another referendum than we were then. Although according to The National, the campaign actually started three years ago and is now on Day 1,124.

(They stopped listing the days on the masthead after Day Two, obviously.)

It’s been 16 months since the sort-of newspaper exclusively revealed the SNP’s incredible 11-point plan to bring about a second referendum.

It’s perhaps worth reminding ourselves of how that’s gone.

The first four points of the “plan” were just a recap of previous events. But the 5th point made some specific pledges.

That “draft bill” finally arrived ten months after it had been promised, barely two weeks before the 2021 election. Those ten months of work produced a bill just three pages long, with the Scottish Government website proudly announcing that the “balot” [sic] was “avaliable” [sic] “within in” [sic] the supporting documents.

The bill is so comically short and content-free we may as well reproduce it in full. Page 1 can be accurately and completely summarised as an extremely long-winded version of the sentence “The referendum will take place on a date of some kind”.

Page 2 can be fully summarised as “This bill is a bill.”

And page 3 tells us exactly what size the ballot-paper voting boxes will be (21mm) and what kind of font the text will be written in (sans serif, 14pt or more).

And that’s it. That’s what took ten months to prepare and was considered a key part of the great indyref2 masterplan. (Although actually it took almost four and a half years. The Scottish Government began consulting on the draft bill in October 2016.)

Points 6 and 7 of the 11-point “strategy” were empty waffle and as far as we’re aware point 8 has still not been enacted, 16 months after the “plan” was unveiled and more than a year after the 2021 election victory that would supposedly trigger the request.

The last request made by the Scottish Government for a Section 30 order remains the one made in December 2019, two and a half years ago, 13 months before the “plan” was published.

So points 9-11, such as they are, are yet to come into play.

9 and 11 are of course meaningless gibberish anyway and always were. But point 10 doesn’t even BEGIN to mean anything until Sturgeon carries out Point 8 by requesting a Section 30 again, at which point the process outlined in the plan – passing the bill, testing the question, deciding the date, resolving any legal challenge in the Supreme Court – could get under way.

It would all have to be done and dusted by about this time next year to allow time for a few months of actual campaign before a vote by September/October 2023 at the latest. (Because you really, really can’t gamble on having an indyref in Scotland in November or December and making the whole thing hostage to winter weather.)

Anyone who thinks there’s the tiniest chance of all that happening within the next year when it took nearly half a decade to produce the 745 words of padded-out nothing-fluff in the draft bill is, frankly, a drooling imbecile who shouldn’t be allowed to buy biscuits unsupervised, let alone decide the future of a nation.

You can fire as many guns as you like, but nobody’s even on the way to the bus stop to get to the stadium yet, never mind on the starting blocks. They’re all back home, eating bunch after bunch of limp, rancid, rotten carrots.

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    1153 to “Firing blanks”

    1. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      31 May, 2022 at 12:43 pm

      @Mark Boyle 12.01 pm

      Oh this has been going on for months and months. He’s been called out for it by others BTL in the past too, but it makes no difference. Definitely kinda disturbed and obsessive behaviour. He does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time researching my background and personal life. Stalkerish behaviour certainly.

      He must have very little else in his life. If it weren’t so creepy it’d be a bit sad really. Of course little better can be expected from snivelling anonymous cowards hiding behind their anonymity can it?

      You could try ignoring him along with all the other folk you consider to be nutters, foul mouthed harridans, moonhowlers, scheemies, cowards, Vlad’s Big Dick etc etc etc etc. Does your disturbed and obsessive behaviour prevent you from doing that?

    2. Ruby says:

      Code of conduct = control.

      This has been going on within the YES movement since Andy Ellis had his photo in the D. Record when someone grassed on the cybernats.

    3. Effigy says:

      A colleague has just informed me that I will be charged an arm and leg on top of a £4 per hour parking fee for visiting my home town city centre Glasgow this time next year.

      I knew nothing about it and trying to find out about it isn’t easy on line.

      Yes an unbroken stream of old busses spewing pollution out everywhere should be forced to
      be electric. This will help air quality dramatically and they have the money and facilities to support it.

      I drove up Sauchiehall St recently and couldn’t believe the number of empty shops.
      It is already a ghost town and I’m sure that these new measures for shoppers will see tumbleweed bowling down our tourists.

      So everyone heads to the out of town shopping centres with ample free parking and the remaining city shops can close making workers redundant.

      Taxi drivers will need to hammer their passengers so reduced nights in town due to Austerity
      and inflation will be reduced to a Xmas night out.

      People who paid heavy taxes on purchasing cars and fuel are unlikely to afford high priced electric cars and don’t have a facility for car charging so these taxes are lost and of course the £4 per hour parking bonanza will be lost and the closed shops no longer paying council tax and the newly unemployed not spending in the city or paying council tax.

      We are heading for the worst economic crash in 100 years.

    4. Republicofscotland says:

      McAlpine’s latest on why haven’t we reembraced our Scottish culture and languages.

      “So this is the question – what kind of self-respecting culture requires four renaissances in a century to start to feel that its own language is worthy of serious respect? I generally avoid too much discussion of whether Scotland was ‘colonised’ or not as it doesn’t strike me as all that helpful a lot of the time, but here it really does seem pertinent. That is what the relationship between a nation and its culture looks like if it is under colonial rule.”

      https://robinmcalpine.org/afraid-of-our-own-voices/

    5. Ruby says:

      “However, let’s be clear, the politically luvvie approach by AIM has no bearing in political reality. The “please may I have some more, Mr Bumble?” approach won’t wash.”

      Spot on!

      I find it very naive on the part of these ‘progressives’ that they think one side should be all very nicey nicey while the other side are being complete bastards and playing every dirty trick in thee book.

    6. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my 5.16pm comment.

      This rings truth with McAlpine’s paragraph.

      “The colonized child is not taught his own history, but the unknown settings of his colonizer’s history ”

      Albert Memmi, as Alf Baird would say.

    7. Ruby says:

      Another banned word for the list:

      ski_er

      Clues:
      Person using snow runners
      Winter sports person
      Snow traveller

      It doesn’t make much sense why this word is banned. I wonder if it’s because it was part of a banned posters moniker.

    8. Alf Baird says:

      Republicofscotland at 5:16 pm

      “McAlpine’s latest on why haven’t we reembraced our Scottish culture and languages.”

      Its a very good article by Robin, though might have benefitted from some analysis of language and postcolonial theory thereby confirming the colonialism thesis and the realisation that independence is decolonisation:

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2021/07/04/paper-two-the-determinants-of-independence/

    9. twathater says:

      I just splattered tea all over my keyboard when I read ellis’s response to Breeks link
      “Who appointed aim as the custodian of the independence movement’s conscience”

      I would heartily agree with that statement if the hypocrisy of it being issued by ellis didn’t make it unbelievable, THAT statement coming from a self absorbed self opinionated pub bore whose hijacking of another’s popular blog consists of demanding others whose opinions differ from his are moon howlers , pork , schemies or skid marks

      I thought Andy was a progressive civic nationalist , what’s wrong Andy is this progressive civic nationalism not to your liking , or is it because you weren’t consulted on this form of civic nationalism
      The trouble with monsters who push this progressive civic nationalism bullshit nonsense is that it MUST be THEIR form of PCN or you are just another moonhowler ,pork,schemie or skidmark , welcome to the ranks Andy

    10. McDuff says:

      Twathater 6.14p

      Spot on.

    11. Andy Ellis says:

      @twatbynametwatbynature 6.14 pm

      Why is it only me that faces criticism for hi-jacking someone else’s blog when there are others who post way more than I do? Oh…I get it…it’s because you and other regressive nativists don’t agree with me…now I’ve got it!

      There’s nothing progressive about the TRA’s and the cancel culture of the candy floss haired Twitler Youth pulling the strings of AIM and directing the Sturgeonistas.

      The vast majority of folk in the movement don’t support the TRA’s, any more than they support regressive nativists.I may have my issues with the moon howling fraternity in here, but by and large they are on the right side of the TRA issue, if on little else.

      Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

    12. robbo says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      31 May, 2022 at 6:40 pm
      @twatbynametwatbynature 6.14 pm

      Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

      ——
      No they aren’t, the clock is broken.

    13. Ruby says:

      One thing I have never heard is Andy Ellis’s views on what he calls the ‘TRA’ issue’

    14. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 4:09 pm

      You are advising Andy Ellis to ignore someone you consider to be fucking psycho & a fruitloop. Haven’t you noticed that Andy Ellis’s whole raison d’etre on this site is to engage with posters he considers to be psychos, fruit loops, foul mouth harridans, fringe nutters, moonhowlers, etc etc etc. it’s his thing. It’s all he does.

      I’m wonder why you have chosen to engage with someone you consider to be a fucking psycho & a fruitloop and not take your own advice?

      You appear to be at great pains to defend someone that has dragged up an eight year old unionist tabloid article about a poster here – including their photograph – that isn’t a celebrity, or a politician, or even someone that has stood for public office, but an ordinary citizen. Just for good measure – after my original call foul – also thrown in some extra info as to where to find where said person lives.

      Is your playground feud with Ellis (“He started it wi’me, WAAAH!“, “No, she started it first, WAAAH!“) really warped your sense of perspective that much that the concept of “going too far” fails to compute?

      It’s pretty fking obvious that the evil wee bastard Scott did this specifically not for “banter”, but in the hope what he did would have some negative consequences for Ellis in his real life – and THAT has to be where a line is drawn.

      (And please don’t insult anyone’s intelligence by responding to this with the cybertroll’s favourite defence of “but it was only information in the public domain, duuuude”. This isn’t Kiwi Farms or Tattle Life where the world’s low life go around doxxing people for “sport”)

      Don’t suppose it has occured to you for a second this is exactly the sort of action that any opponents of WOS (whether SNP or Yoons) would merrily jump up as “proof” Stu’s website encourages the daft and dangerous to potential criminal behaviour, and thus in severe need of censoring “for the public good” …

      …just in case some of you need a wee reminder, Sturgeon and her mates these last few years towards those refusing to “get with the programme” has included police questioning of old grannies for “placing stickers in a threatening manner”, “disagreeing with an SNP MP on Twitter, in a built up area, during the hours of daylight”, etc.

      So, just saying, maybe this shit could be nipped in the bud before it escalates, huh?

      Or is your feud with Ellis more important than WOS?

      And by the way, for the record, I’d be equally as royally pissed off if this was done to ANY other poster on here, as would anyone else with two bloody braincells to rub together.

    15. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 6.55pm

      That’d be because you ostentatiously advertise the fact you never read what me or others you disagree with write…..or mebbe the cunt-calling frenzy just means you missed it because the spittle on your screen obscured what you keep saying you never read?

    16. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      31 May, 2022 at 6:58 pm

      @Tourette’s Ruby 6.55pm

      That’d be because you ostentatiously advertise the fact you never read what me or others you disagree with write

      That’s pathetic. I’m beginning to wonder if you and John Main are the same person you both seem to spout the same shit.

    17. Andy Ellis says:

      @Mark Boyle 6.58 pm

      Cheers bud. At the time of the #cybernat7 episode my boss told me they got bombarded with “outraged of Milngavie” emails. A few were pretty OTT apparently and some emailed multiple times. Interestingly the worst and most persistent were Scots yoons.

      One of those took great joy telling me he was one of them on twitter: again, a snivelling online coward afraid to identify himself or own his actions. I was subsequently told by a third party who the individual concerned was. As it turns out the twitter account concerned was a prospective Conservative candidate in Stirling, photographed wi’ a beaming Ruth the Mooth, the whole deal. Later he was disgraced after being outed for posting sectarian and racist material as wells as colourful “descriptions” on a dating site.

      Scott strikes me as very much in the same slightly creepy, obsessional vein?

    18. John Main says:

      @Ruby 7:03

      You’re missing me!

      Aw, sweet 🙂

    19. John Main says:

      Terry Pratchett, “Good Omens”:

      “the pious Scots, locked throughout history in a long-drawn-out battle with their arch-enemies the Scots”

      RIP Terry. You knew us better than we know ourselves.

    20. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      You appear to be at great pains to defend someone that has dragged up an eight year old unionist tabloid article about a poster here – including their photograph – that isn’t a celebrity, or a politician, or even someone that has stood for public office, but an ordinary citizen. Just for good measure – after my original call foul – also thrown in some extra info as to where to find where said person lives.

      You are a bit late in calling foul the D. Record article was re-posted here months ago. It was also posted when it was originally published.
      The question being asked when it was originally published and when it was re-posted months ago was ‘who unmasked the cybernats’ featured in the article. Andy Ellis was on the list of suspects. I wouldn’t be attacking or defending anyone because I don’t know exactly what this is all about.

      If this is as serious as you suggest you have to ask why this article is not on Wings banned list.

    21. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 7.31 pm

      I’d never seen that quote before, but came across it earlier when I was looking for Ruth Wishart’s tweet. You missed out the endthough…:

      “Even the pious Scots, locked throughout history in a long-drawn-out battle with their arch-enemies the Scots, managed a few burnings to while away the long winter evenings.”

      Rubes strikes me as the kind of tricoteuse who would be warming herself by the pyre cackling that they had it coming. 🙂

    22. Republicofscotland says:

      Ruby.

      Pay no attention to Ellis and his shills, as expected they’ve come to his aid, pushing the sympathy and he’s been wrong agenda, pass the sick bucket I say.

    23. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      It’s pretty fking obvious that the evil wee bastard Scott did this specifically not for “banter”, but in the hope what he did would have some negative consequences for Ellis in his real life – and THAT has to be where a line is drawn.

      It could be a case of revenge!

      Are you Andy Ellis’s minder? Has he complained about the D. Record article being posted? Has he gone to the police or complained to Stu?

    24. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      31 May, 2022 at 7:42 pm

      Rubes strikes me as the kind of tricoteuse who would be warming herself by the pyre cackling that they had it coming.

      Mark Boyle any views on the above.

      Are you happy to defend someone who seems to be always looking for trouble?

    25. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      31 May, 2022 at 7:45 pm

      Ruby.

      Pay no attention to Ellis and his shills, as expected they’ve come to his aid, pushing the sympathy and he’s been wrong agenda, pass the sick bucket I say.

      I thought Mark Boyle was a good guy but I think I might have changed my mind.

    26. Alf Baird says:

      Ruby @ 5:43 pm

      “Another banned word for the list”

      The ‘Virtue Signallers for Yes’ seem oblivious to the well-established relationship between any colonial administration and its roots, which are embedded in fascism (Fanon; Memmi; Cesaire).

      Here the so-called ‘progressive’ bourgeoisie should remember what Aime Cesaire called “the law of progressive dehumanization” as the colonial administration and its payroll functionaries plan their next form of punishment to be meted out on restless natives who annoyingly seek a more rapid direct route to ending ‘the scourge of colonialism’, instead of another S30 blind alley.

    27. George Ferguson says:

      @Alf Baird 7:59pm
      We don’t know if Section 30 is a blind alley. Because the legal advice is secret. That is until the ICO determination is challenged or otherwise. We have until June 10th to wait. Either way I will be happy. It gives clarity on the next step. It will not lead to a technical stasis. Either the ICO determination is upheld or it isn’t. No halfway solution is available to the Court of Session. Joanna Cherry we need your contribution.

    28. robbo says:

      George Ferguson says:
      31 May, 2022 at 8:23 pm
      @Alf Baird 7:59pm

      If England wanted to request authority to have a referendum on independence for themselves who would they ask and who would decide on a section 30 for them? Also would Wales have any say in it as they’re attached to them through no fault of their own<?

    29. George Ferguson says:

      @Robbo 8:52pm
      Implicit in your question, you think a Section 30 is needed. We don’t know that. I would agree with you it is probably is needed. But as the legal advice is secret we don’t know that, a QC may know the probable outcome. I am interested in the Scottish Parliament and not rUk. Can you imagine the furore if a Section 30 is not needed?. And the Scot Gov knew that?. Which is why we should wait. Either way it will set the narrative.

    30. Andy Ellis says:

      @George Ferguson

      If the decision is that a S30 order is required (which any nationalist SG should have put beyond legal doubt in 2015 of course) it’ll be interesting watching the devolusionists in the SNP justify their opposition to plebiscitary elections! 🙂

    31. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 9:44pm
      A pivotal moment Andy. But before we talk about a plebiscite election we need to be informed about the ICO determination. What was the legal advice the Scot Gov got?. My information is the Scot Gov is to challenge the ICO this week. A half baked argument based on proportional effects. Worked for the Scot Gov the first time on the hospitality industry legal challenge. Won’t work this time. I am no QC but I know what is right and what is wrong.

    32. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:35 pm

      You are a bit late in calling foul the D. Record article was re-posted here months ago. It was also posted when it was originally published.

      I was clearly referring to the Daily Mail article from 2014 which Scott archived and linked to. The Mail is Britain’s biggest selling paper.

      I couldn’t give a shit about some article posted here months ago from some Weegie adult comic of minimal circulation (claims “circulation” of a million, actual sales 73,159 …[source https://www.abc.org.uk/product/2935%5D).

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:48 pm

      Are you Andy Ellis’s minder?

      Which part of “And by the way, for the record, I’d be equally as royally pissed off if this was done to ANY other poster on here, as would anyone else with two bloody braincells to rub together.” do you not bloody get?

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:55 pm

      Are you happy to defend someone who seems to be always looking for trouble?

      With respect, you’re every bit as bad as he is, and every bit as good as he is for that matter. Seems a pity you can’t agree to disagree, but if wishes were fishes the next series of the Blue Planet could be shot in Castle Semple Loch.

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:58 pm

      I thought Mark Boyle was a good guy but I think I might have changed my mind.

      Oh boo hoo hoo, how will I LIVE?

      Um, much the same as normal, actually.

      If you want to go through life dividing the world into goodies and baddies in accordance whether they agree or disagree with you, there’s nothing I or anyone else can do about that, nor for that matter care.

      Personally, most of us left that siege mentality behind before leaving secondary school, those who didn’t soon had it knocked out of them by the realpolitik of the adult world (except, of course, in the case of Old Firm supporters …).

      Then again, the inhabitants of this island do have this remarkable self-destructive tendency toward nursing and cultivating huffs and grudges in much the same way others cultivate begonias. Come to think of it, begonias tend to grow strongest under a load of steaming horseshit as well. That’s an analogy, our kid – let it sink in …

      Peace out!

    33. Ruby says:

      CORRECTION Daily Mail not Daily Record
      Ruby says:
      31 May, 2022 at 7:35 pm

      Mark Boyle says:

      You appear to be at great pains to defend someone that has dragged up an eight year old unionist tabloid article about a poster here – including their photograph – that isn’t a celebrity, or a politician, or even someone that has stood for public office, but an ordinary citizen. Just for good measure – after my original call foul – also thrown in some extra info as to where to find where said person lives.

      You are a bit late in calling foul the D. Mail article was re-posted here months ago. It was also posted when it was originally published.
      The question being asked when it was originally published and when it was re-posted months ago was ‘who unmasked the cybernats’ featured in the article. Andy Ellis was on the list of suspects. I wouldn’t be attacking or defending anyone because I don’t know exactly what this is all about.

      If this is as serious as you suggest you have to ask why this article is not on Wings banned list.

    34. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      31 May, 2022 at 10:10 pm

      Ruby says: 31 May, 2022 at 7:35 pm

      You are a bit late in calling foul the D. Record article was re-posted here months ago. It was also posted when it was originally published.

      I was clearly referring to the Daily Mail article from 2014 which Scott archived and linked to. The Mail is Britain’s biggest selling paper.

      I couldn’t give a shit about some article posted here months ago from some Weegie adult comic of minimal circulation (claims “circulation” of a million, actual sales 73,159 …[source https://www.abc.org.uk/product/2935%5D).

      . See correction I was talking about the D. Mail article.

    35. PacMan says:

      sock-puppets them all.

    36. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      With respect, you’re every bit as bad as he is, and every bit as good as he is for that matter.

      This is not about me this is about your complaint re terrible treatment of Andy Ellis. You’ll have heard the expression ‘If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen’ If Ellis doesn’t want trouble then he shouldn’t be so fuckin’ provocative all the time. I think you are completely mad to defend this cunt. But hey that’s up to you!

    37. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      Are you Andy Ellis’s minder?

      Which part of “And by the way, for the record, I’d be equally as royally pissed off if this was done to ANY other poster on here, as would anyone else with two bloody braincells to rub together.” do you not bloody get?

      I suppose what I really don’t get is what you are so pissed off about.

      It’s not as if Andy Ellis hides his identity.

      He’s never done telling others they are snivelling cowards who hide behind anonymous monikers (or some such shit) whereas he uses his real name online.

    38. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      I thought Mark Boyle was a good guy but I think I might have changed my mind.

      Oh boo hoo hoo, how will I LIVE?

      Um, much the same as normal, actually.

      If you want to go through life dividing the world into goodies and baddies in accordance whether they agree or disagree with you, there’s nothing I or anyone else can do about that, nor for that matter care.

      You’ve got that very wrong Mark I don’t divide people ‘into goodies and baddies in accordance whether they agree or disagree with me’ I make the decision depending on how much of a cunt they are.

    39. Saffron Robe says:

      Interesting conundrum: How can a parliament (Westminster) which does not have the authority to legislate on Scots law, create a parliament devolved from itself (Holyrood) which does?

    40. Scott says:

      Saffron Robe says:
      1 June, 2022 at 2:10 am

      Interesting conundrum: How can a parliament (Westminster) which does not have the authority to legislate on Scots law, create a parliament devolved from itself (Holyrood) which does?

      GB Parliament was given authority to create laws for Scotland, see Article XXIV of Union with England Act 1707.

      The existence of Holyrood contradicts Article III.

      “That the United Kingdom of Great Britain be Represented by one and the same Parliament to be stiled the Parliament of Great Britain”

      But, it represents the expressed will of Scotland per a referendum ‘allowed/ruled/forced’ by Act of WM Parliament.

      We didn’t then & still don’t need permission to petition the monarch directly for change to the way we are governed.

      It may be conventional and lawful for Parliament to legislate as it sees fit but it does not have UNLIMITED power, because in Scots law the nobile officium of the Court of Session has the power to issue ANY ORDER, to which said Parliament must comply.

    41. twathater says:

      @ SR 2.10am It’s when things like that are highlighted it further exposes the dearth of intelligent beings in Holyrood , but there again the devolved Scottish Parliament line is pushed to preserve the incoming salaries

    42. Stoker says:

      Breeks says on 31 May, 2022 at 2:43 pm

      “Sorry, doing my best. I tried to make it shorter by chopping the ‘o’ off too…. Some people might have thought it was a typo… ?”

      That gave me a chuckle! Just what i needed in this current hell we call life.

    43. John Main says:

      Mark Boyle

      Welcome to the Cunt Club.

      Sorry about the delay in processing your membership, but the roles of proposer and seconder are combined in one individual.

      Not very democratic, I know, but hey, this is Scotland after all.

    44. Alf Baird says:

      George Ferguson @ 8:23 pm

      “We don’t know if Section 30 is a blind alley.”

      Any ‘national’ referendum based on an irregular and non-reciprocal ‘local government’ resident-based franchise, and also managed by bad faith actors, is a major unnecessary risk, as we saw in 2014.

      And more especially when: “as a matter of law a referendum is not a requirement for independence” (McCorkindale and McHarg).

      And even more especially when the people (i.e. Scots) seeking to withdraw from any mankit treaty-based alliance are already sovereign – i.e. have no higher authority.

      Which means that a majority of Scotland’s national elected representatives have and always have had the political power to end the Treaty of Union as far as Scotland is concerned, and in much the same way it was entered into by a majority of Scotland’s national representatives.

      So the SNP MPs need to get on with this and that is the primary purpose of Nationalist representatives especially within what is clearly a colonial situation which can only worsen with further unnecessary delays. Scotland’s national representatives are not there to feather their nests and enjoy the London high life, deceiving the people. They could have done the needful in 2015 prior to Scotland’s probably unlawful and certainly undemocratic enforced EU exit.

      Let’s also remember that colonialism is known as ‘geographic violence’ (Edward Said) where ‘a people’ are constantly subject to a range of oppressions imposed on them by another people/cultural hegemony – economic, political, social, cultural and constitutional – leaving them and their nation exploited, marginalised and under-developed.

      https://wp.towson.edu/iajournal/the-socio-political-determinants-of-scottish-independence/

    45. John Main says:

      @Alf Baird 9:17 am

      In April 2022, on the “Progress Update” thread, Rev Stu demonstrated how support for Indy has plateaued at about 45% Yes, 55% No, for the past 7 years or so.

      So when you write:

      “Which means that a majority of Scotland’s national elected representatives have and always have had the political power to end the Treaty of Union as far as Scotland is concerned, and in much the same way it was entered into by a majority of Scotland’s national representatives.”

      Are you saying that just as Scotland was dragged into the UK without a democratic mandate in 1707, so it can be dragged out in 2022?

      Just asking.

    46. Ruby says:

      Alf Baird says:
      31 May, 2022 at 7:59 pm

      Ruby @ 5:43 pm

      “Another banned word for the list”

      The ‘Virtue Signallers for Yes seem oblivious to the well-established relationship between any colonial administration and its roots, which are embedded in fascism (Fanon; Memmi; Cesaire).

      The banned words I was referring to were the words that cause your post to go into moderation here on Wings.
      My list so far:

      ski_er
      Pu_tin
      set_tler
      rec_tum.
      an_us

      Re colonisation: I can go along with the idea of ‘Scotland’ being an English colony.
      I did read Robin MacAlpine’s article which I found interesting.
      He talks about Scots words like cowp and mingin. I was 18 years old before I heard these words up until then the only non English words I heard were Gaelic.

      I have a different perspective regarding language to that of Robin MacAlpine.

      I’m guessing Gaelic words would be on Stu’s banned list. The Rev Stu does not like the Gaelic.

      I wonder what Stu’s views are on the Scots language.

    47. Ruby says:

      Re the banned word an_us

      I discovered this because I was talking about a cream for your piles called An_usol.

      Using the word An_usol caused my post to go into moderation about 2 months ago and it’s still there waiting, and waiting, and waiting to be moderated. 🙁

      The amusing thing about the banned list is it’s ok to say erse, arse & even bumhole but just not an_us or rec_tum! 🙂

    48. Alf Baird says:

      John Main @ 9:38 am

      “Are you saying that just as Scotland was dragged into the UK without a democratic mandate in 1707, so it can be dragged out in 2022?”

      I would be more than happy for Scotland to bring the UK alliance arrangement to an end through a majority of Scotland’s democratically elected national representatives. That is democratic, and far more democratic than Scotland being forced to remain in the UK and subject to England’s MPs.

    49. Breastplate says:

      That particular word was used as a replacement for the first name for a very prominent Labour in Scotland politician, so I completely understand why the Rev got fed up with the beyond childish petty name calling and banned it.

    50. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Perhaps it should be called ‘The Souness Test’ – that strange clash of loyalties when you have to weigh your support for your own nation’s team with the need to virtue signal temporary allegiance to another.

    51. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      1 June, 2022 at 10:25 am

      That particular word was used as a replacement for the first name for a very prominent Labour in Scotland politician, so I completely understand why the Rev got fed up with the beyond childish petty name calling and banned it.

      Interesting! Any views on why Pu_tin is banned word?

    52. Breastplate says:

      Agreed IanB,
      Very poor form from Souness. It would be fantastic if tonight’s game was about football and not politics but I have my doubts.
      Scotland under Steve Clarke has been playing some great football and I would like to see that continue tonight.
      I hope he can get through to the players that it’s perfectly ok to try their best against Uk raine and it’s also ok to win.

    53. Breastplate says:

      Ruby,
      I’m guessing but maybe the Rev is equally fed up with the Russ ia/Uk raine arguments on his site, perhaps because they quickly descend into name calling.

      The short answer is, I don’t know but people might have a job commenting on the football tonight as mentioning that country will put you in to moderation as I have just found out.

    54. Alf Baird says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 10:26 am

      “Perhaps it should be called ‘The Souness Test’ – that strange clash of loyalties when you have to weigh your support for your own nation’s team with the need to virtue signal temporary allegiance to another.”

      Or maybe ‘The Blackford Test’.

    55. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      1 June, 2022 at 11:13 am

      Ruby,
      I’m guessing but maybe the Rev is equally fed up with the Russ ia/Uk raine arguments on his site, perhaps because they quickly descend into name calling.

      The short answer is, I don’t know but people might have a job commenting on the football tonight as mentioning that country will put you in to moderation as I have just found out.

      Cheers Breastplate I’ll add those to my list.

      Updated list
      Russ_ia
      Ukra_ine
      Pu_tin
      ski_er
      set_tler
      rec_tum.
      an_us

      I wonder if the person responsible for these latest words being banned is applying Savlon to his prety major burn.

      Would it be mean of me to suggest the word football be banned. Football does encourage name calling and bad behaviour and more importantly I don’t watch football. 😉

    56. Willie says:

      I trust we have all got our Union Jack underpants on as we approach the royal jubilee media onslaught that’s coming our way.

      And to start the shit show here’s an extract from yesterday quoting the great spiritual leader the Very Reverend Justin Welby.

      ” The Archbishop of Canterbury has told ITV News that Prince Andrew is “seeking to make amends” having settled his sexual abuse lawsuit and we must “learn to be a more open and forgiving society”

      And there we have it. In tribute to our Queenie we have to learn, yes that’s right folks, learn to forgive our paedophilic abusers. Certainly tells you all you need to know about royalty and the establishment.

      Sir Jimmy Saville OBE was an abuser, Rolf Harris OBE was an abuser, Stuart Hall OBE was and abuser and the latest Prince Andrew was a user. All part of the establishment, all honoured by the Queen, this statement tells you all you need to know.about the monarchy and it’s adherents.

    57. Stuart MacKay says:

      Ian Brotherhood, or….

      Perhaps it should be called ‘The Sturgeon Test’ – that strange clash of loyalties when you have to weigh your support for another country with the need to virtue signal temporary allegiance to your own.

    58. Republicofscotland says:

      2I trust we have all got our Union Jack underpants on as we approach the royal jubilee media onslaught that’s coming our way.”

      Willie.

      Its going to a weekend of celebration for those who fawn over the royal parasites, as all the terrestrial unionist channels spew out hour after hour of ruritanian shite, we’ll probably witness BLiS MP Ian Murray prancing up and down in his Butcher’s apron suit.

      Anyone watching the unionist tv this weekend will need to keep a sick bag handy, best just to turn the box off.

    59. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      1 June, 2022 at 10:26 am

      Perhaps it should be called ‘The Souness Test’ – that strange clash of loyalties when you have to weigh your support for your own nation’s team with the need to virtue signal temporary allegiance to another.

      No worse one supposes than certain players feigning injury to get out of the game yet again but whose fitness will cease to be an issue if by some miracle we qualify …

    60. robbo says:

      Fuck Souness.

    61. James Che. says:

      Alf Baird

      To take up John Mains analysis.

      What is the golden rule for our scottish representitives in democracy at all?

      We voted them in for many years to follow the purpose and guidencevof the vote results and often their own manifesto promise to us.

      How does the democracy of voting through that process work at all for us?

      If we are to except the only way out of the treaty of the union is for a vote of the branch office in Scotland.

      Then that same principle must be recognised as to how ” We ” first got in the treaty of the union through government in the first instance.

      And that vote did not happen.

      The discrepancy to vote ourselves out of a union does not tally with the “We never voted ourselves in”
      At some in time or other this anomaly has to register with all of Scotland and Sovereign Scots.

      The rest is just colonial hogwash and political wool over the eyes.

      The legal position is the Scots nor the nation of Scotland are not recorded in history records as voting to join the treaty of the union,

      Why the use of more political obfuscation for the devolved government and the Snp to mess up further?

      We did not legally vote ourselves in, We cannot therefore now vote our selves out.

    62. Owen Mullions says:

      Ruby@5.43
      Don’t know if this is the reason for any ban but there is a certain ‘Scottish winter sports enthusiast’ on WGD who is a fanatical Nicophant/trans ally and regards Stu as the devil incarnate. Maybe he plagued this site at one time and tried Stu’s patience.

    63. Confused says:

      Ruby

      – interesting researches into the problem words; I thought I knew what they all were, hence my frustration at “moderation” (which is now a black hole) – the posts in question were, bafflingly, more serious ones with links to wings own articles, plus boring quotes from economic texts.

      I think, last resort, you can just do the stupid turn 4ll v0w3ls 1nt0 numb3rs trick.

    64. James Che. says:

      The Three Scottish Estates voted themselves into the treaty of the Union.
      And these people are named on that the 1706/07 treaty as being specific, with their names signed by themselves.
      This section of people are bound to the Treaty they signed and set their seals to.

      Englands Parliament did not consider these as the Scottish nation, or the Scots.
      After They considered and debated as to wether to give the Sovereign Scot the vote to join the treaty of the union as well,
      They concluded not to, as the SCOTS in all Probability would VOTE “NO”.

      Thus we see from historical records that Englands Parliament in 1707 did not consider the three estate as ” Scots”.
      As ” all” of Scotland.
      Or as representatives of The Scots.

      But as a separate identified group distinguishing ” The Scots” from the Three Estates of Scotland.

      The first set mentioned entered into the treaty of the union, ( the three estates )

      The second set, ( The Scottish nation of people ) remained outside the 1707 treaty of the union, and retained their Scottish Sovereignty by not voting by any legal compliance and requirements of entering into the Great British Parliament.

      The Sovereign Scots nor their nation voted themselves into the 1707 treaty of the union.

      It is a false hood, and the best scam of the 17oo’s.
      In 2022 the Great Britain/ UK Parliament 300 years later admits this.

      Want to hearThe hilariously funny twist in the tail.

      When the English Parliament/ British Parliament along with the Scottish Parliament closed the Scottish Parliament doors as official so the Great British Parliament could take over.

      The Scottish Parliament now had no liability to the Treaty of the union.

    65. Ruby says:

      Owen Mullions says:
      1 June, 2022 at 3:55 pm

      Ruby@5.43
      Don’t know if this is the reason for any ban but there is a certain ‘Scottish winter sports enthusiast’ on WGD who is a fanatical Nicophant/trans ally and regards Stu as the devil incarnate. Maybe he plagued this site at one time and tried Stu’s patience.

      I think you are probably correct Owen. It was when I quoted “scottish_ski_er” in one of my posts that I discover ski_er triggered moderation

    66. Ruby says:

      Confused says:
      1 June, 2022 at 4:00 pm

      Ruby

      – interesting researches into the problem words; I thought I knew what they all were, hence my frustration at “moderation” (which is now a black hole) – the posts in question were, bafflingly, more serious ones with links to wings own articles, plus boring quotes from economic texts.

      I think, last resort, you can just do the stupid turn 4ll v0w3ls 1nt0 numb3rs trick.

      Too many links may trigger moderation. Try with fewer links.

      You could Tiny links. There might be an rect_um or an an_us hiding in one of your links.

      The vowel malarky could be time consuming. How about posting in Morse Code? 🙂

      ..- -.- .-. .- .. -. . ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- .-. ..- … … .. .- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- … -.- .. . .-. ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- .–. ..- – .. -. ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- … . – – .-.. . .-. ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- .-. . -.-. – ..- — ·-·-·- ·-·-·- ·-·-·- .- -. ..- …

      You can go here to translate:
      http://www.unit-conversion.info/texttools/morse-code/

    67. Ruby says:

      Testing

      ski

    68. Saffron Robe says:

      Scott says:

      “GB Parliament was given authority to create laws for Scotland, see Article XXIV of Union with England Act 1707.

      “The existence of Holyrood contradicts Article III.”

      Many thanks for the explanation, Scott.

    69. Saffron Robe says:

      I have another musing about the law:

      It is quite apparent, for reasons well discussed here and elsewhere, that the GRA makes a mockery of the law. Why then does the Scottish judiciary not act now before it goes any further and charge Nicola Sturgeon with bringing Scots law into disrepute? In Scotland no-one is above the law.

    70. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Academic asking for folk who used census to register objections to Scotgov’s gender questions.

      twitter.com/SarahPedersen2/status/1531990697917792256

    71. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Radio Scotland has Souness on as a guest. He’s back-pedalling, ‘I’m a proud Scot but…’ whilst treating us all to his geopolitical nous.

    72. Republicofscotland says:

      “He’s back-pedalling, ‘I’m a proud Scot but”

      Unionist shite that we’ve heard on multiple occasions.

    73. Republicofscotland says:

      “Academic asking for folk who used census to register objections to Scotgov’s gender questions.”

      Only 85% of folk filled in the census, some experts say its not enough to get an overall picture of Scots. Its also tens of millions over budget, it was Sturgeon’s idea to hold the census back whilst the rest of the UK carried out the census.

      I’m pretty sure she held it back until the election was over for a number of reasons none justifiable in my book.

    74. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ROS –

      The woman doing the survey explains that the paper returns will not be archived. The answers are recorded and then the originals will be disposed of.

      This could be the only way we’ll get even a rough idea of how many folk declined the gender question and/or entered ‘Believer in Biology’ as their religion.

    75. Republicofscotland says:

      “The woman doing the survey explains that the paper returns will not be archived. The answers are recorded and then the originals will be disposed of.”

      Ian.

      Is that legal, I mean we know what the SNP under Sturgeon is like with regards to paper work so archiving it should be a no-brainer.

      If the 85% figure is right, then even 15% of 5 million (and there’s more folk than that) equals 750,000 people who didn’t bother filling it in. I wonder how the SNP will manage to send out all those £1000 pound fines.

      I wonder how census figures would stack up next to the supposedly 2023 indyref figures for voting.

      https://www.calculator.net/percent-calculator.html?cpar1=15&cpar2=5%2C000%2C000&cpar3=&ctype=1&x=71&y=13

    76. Ruby says:

      Any info re why so many people didn’t fill in the census?

    77. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ruby –

      I haven’t seen any evidence-backed explanation.

      That’s the type of thing we used to rely on this place for.

      🙁

    78. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Half-time, Radio Scotland plays an in-house ad for a programme called ‘Our Queen: A Life in Music’.

    79. Saffron Robe says:

      A lot of good banter about the Sturgeon Test and the Blackford Test!

      I think a lot of people didn’t fill out the census because it was devalued by the Scottish Government’s advice about stating your sex. I can’t remember exactly but I think the advice was that you could put what you “identified” as and not what you actually (scientifically and biologically) are. Consequently the answer is meaningless, and if you can answer meaninglessly to one question, how can you be legally bound to answer truthfully to the rest? Or give any credence to the census at all?

    80. Ruby says:

      Anyone following the:

      “Johnny Depp-Amber Heard verdict live updates: Jury sides with Depp, awards $15 million”

      That reminded my quite a lot of the Alex Salmond trial.

    81. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      1 June, 2022 at 8:32 pm

      @Ruby –

      I haven’t seen any evidence-backed explanation.

      That’s the type of thing we used to rely on this place for.

      ?

      It looks as if people from deprived areas are going to be blamed.
      ‘These schemies! You just cant educate pork.’ Andy Ellis

    82. Republicofscotland says:

      I take my9.25pm comment back, Scotland scored in the 80th minute, it will be the usual last ten minutes of Scotland putting its fans through the ringer.

      A round of applause for our heroic failure, as per usual, or maybe not.

    83. Ruby says:

      Saffron Robe says:
      1 June, 2022 at 8:57 pm

      A lot of good banter about the Sturgeon Test and the Blackford Test!

      I think a lot of people didn’t fill out the census because it was devalued by the Scottish Government’s advice about stating your sex. I can’t remember exactly but I think the advice was that you could put what you “identified” as and not what you actually (scientifically and biologically) are. Consequently the answer is meaningless, and if you can answer meaninglessly to one question, how can you be legally bound to answer truthfully to the rest? Or give any credence to the census at all?

      I’m at the stage where I can’t even be bothered discussing the complete madness of self-id.

      I predict it’s all going to go pear shaped in the not too distant future the census fiasco being the first indicator of what might happen.

      Regarding these tests the one I thought of for deciding who should qualify for a vote in Scotland was:

      ‘Which country would you fight for if Scotland & England were at war?’

    84. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ROS –

      My face has a wrinkle for every time I’ve been through this pish.

      That’s why I look like a giant turtle’s scrotum.

      🙁

    85. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      1 June, 2022 at 9:28 pm

      I take my9.25pm comment back, Scotland scored in the 80th minute, it will be the usual last ten minutes of Scotland putting its fans through the ringer.

      A round of applause for our heroic failure, as per usual, or maybe not.

      9.25pm comment in moderation perhaps?

    86. Republicofscotland says:

      “My face has a wrinkle for every time I’ve been through this pish”

      Ian.

      I know how you feel I’m not getting any younger either, I need to watch the blood pressure when Scotland plays, and of course the swearing.

    87. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Now, full-time, we’re back to the propaganda.

      Shameful stuff altogether.

    88. Republicofscotland says:

      Aw shite U-Crane scored again in the 95th minute the party’s over for another four years.

      Anyway, old heads who follow Scotland (football) know what to expect, still I smile when I see young Scots full of enthusiasm as they think the Scottish national team will win them all, years of defeats will wear them down like water over a stone, its just the way things are I’m afraid, to follow Scotland is to ride the rollercoaster.

    89. George Ferguson says:

      The best side won. We weren’t set up from the start. 20 minutes in and I wanted changes. 2 up front didn’t work. Possession stats in the first half tells the story. This match was played at Hampden. Nevertheless Nicola and Graham Souness gaslighting the Nation as worked. Of course Nicola has been gaslighting Scottish males since she was in it. A wee smirk from her tonight. Their is no excuse for Souness a supposedly hard man?. I have only one word Cubillas!

    90. robertkknight says:

      I’m terminally sick of these swivel-eyed Royalists and Unionists draping multi-coloured rags all over my country.

      Lion Rampant flags I could just about stand, but this…

      No wonder the airports are bursting at the seams – every sane person trying to get the hell away from all this tosh!

      Drove through a village in ‘Orange County’ (North Lanarkshire) which will remain nameless, but OMG… the sights you see when you’re out without your trusty flame thrower.

    91. George Ferguson says:

      @Ruby 10:07pm
      It’s already null and void. The Scottish Government has to start fining people a thousand pounds. And I will contribute on fund raiser sites to pay ther fine. You don’t need academic research to find out what’s gone wrong. The SNP politicised a simple headcount. I have never been asked whether I was on a regular in the armed services or needed to provide detailed information on my past employment. And so on. Absolute rubbish census.

    92. Scott says:

      Development of a major North Sea gas field has been approved by regulators.

      The Jackdaw field, east of Aberdeen, has the potential to produce 6.5% of Britain’s gas output.

      Shell said it expected to spend £500m in the UK to develop the new facility.

      It said the Jackdaw field should be able to provide gas to 1.4m British homes, and its carbon emissions should eventually be captured for storage, if a large project in Peterhead secures funding.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-61666693

      If Shell invest £500m, how much tax is written off quid pro quo?

      North Sea gas n oil belong to the people.

      If you hire a dentist to extract a tooth, they don’t get to sell it on ebay to the highest bidder.

      Jackdaws are pests, Henry VIII passed Vermin Act in 1532 to deal with such crop thieves in England.

      Scotland needs to act to deal with the blatant theft of the wealth of a nation…and Scotgov should demand ‘Peterhead’ is funded.

    93. Robert Hughes says:

      Bring on the * great losers * headlines .Ah well , at least we sang * that country in Eastern Europe’s ( the hammer of moderation looms ) national anthem with gusto , that’s got to count for something eh ?

      In normal circumstances ( remember them ? ) * that country in Eastern Europe * would have been the favourites to emerge the winners from this group of * 2nd Division * teams , they are simply better , more consistent than the other two – granted that has yet to be demonstrated definitively , but can’t see Wales doing any better than us .

      But what psychological pressure was on Scotland not to win , when former players are saying in advance , effectively , it would be * immoral * to defeat Ukraine , and the * Longest Self-Serving FM * couldn’t even bring herself to offer a few words of support to her country’s ambition to progress in a major competition . Truly pathetic .

      Scotland will never make any progress in sporting – or any other – competitions until it regains it’s independent nationhood ; and will never do that while the Sturgeon * Aspire To Failure * ethos is predominant in our culture , and in our psyches

    94. Breeks says:

      Saffron Robe says:
      1 June, 2022 at 8:57 pm

      A lot of good banter about the Sturgeon Test and the Blackford Test!

      I think a lot of people didn’t fill out the census because it was devalued by the Scottish Government’s advice about stating your sex.

      Agreed.

      Furthermore, I think a lot of people were already alerted and alarmed by the School sex survey, where the driving force steering the survey seemed to be the SNP gender freaks, prying like voyeurs for information on a strictly don’t need to know basis.

      When that’s the inevitable consequence you see in a census, be very afraid about these “tainted” gender cretins being perceived as the significant figureheads in the next Indy Campaign. Westminster must be rubbing it’s hands.

    95. Robert Hughes says:

      Ach well , at least Scotland’s Longest Self-Serving FM will be happy this morning at * her * country’s noble failure . Another failure to add to her ever-growing list .

      We’ll never progress in any sporting competitions – or in general – until we’ve regained our status as an Independent Nation , and that will never happen under this regime of useless frauds , whose only concern is surface appearance . And staying in power at all , any , cost

    96. James Che. says:

      Scotland never voted to join the treaty of the union.
      They were not asked to join.

      It has to register with Scots at some point.

    97. stuart mctavish says:

      George Fergusson @9:50

      re gaslighting (tweets?)

      Are you referring to the apparent absence of /s tags on the encouragement to get fakcinated – or the potentially hidden in plain sight reference to John Wilkes Booth in ADVANCE of Jack Sparrow (who had previously suggested it might be time for an actor to assassinate POTUS) promising “the best is yet to come”?

    98. Effigy says:

      The fake national broadcaster who doesn’t do live Scotland football matches but let’s us see every sport England takes part in is absolutely rejoicing in our defeat last night.

      They had to send an Englishman up here to summarise the game for us as obviously no one in Scotland could do it.

      They showed the Ukraine goals, not the Scottish one.
      Smiling face as they report that it’s 6 in a row World Cup we didn’t qualify for.

      They did show a clip of our manager which is fine as it’s just the bit where we are all suffering

      Next bring in a female ex football player I’ve never heard of to focus on how the players never turned up.

      This must be the most coverage our team ever had from the BBC.

      One day Scots might have a National Broadcaster and maybe a channel called Scottish Television who would compete to show vital sports matches without having to pay subscriptions to the likes of Murdoch’s Sky.

      Another squirrel day for Boris as we gag on a tsunami of Butchers Aprons and how great Brits are as they go hungry and freeze with double digit inflation, 4 mortgage hikes in a year, record breaking fuel prices, additional tax increases and the gap between rich and poor extending for the 58th year in a row.

      Britain’s rules it’s slaves.
      God save the right wing extreme!

    99. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:
      2 June, 2022 at 6:31 am

      We’ll never progress in any sporting competitions – or in general – until we’ve regained our status as an Independent Nation

      That is interesting! I’m guessing to succeed in sport or anything for that matter you need a great deal of self-confidence if you are going about believing you are ‘too wee, too poor & too stupid’ your performance will be very poor, mediocre at best. Did someone not say that Scottish Independence would bring about a psychological revolution?

    100. Ruby says:

      I’ve seen some suggestions on Twitter that women are avoiding the ‘Rape Crisis Centre’ I don’t know if this is true or not but it is highly possible.

      What I was wondering is if a charity is not being used then how do they stand regarding government funding?

      I’ve just remembered the following:
      https://gordondangerfield.com/

      ‘We intend to explore in the course of this litigation whether Rape Crisis Scotland were encouraged to make a complaint about Mark for political motives, and indeed whether the complainers in the Salmond trial were similarly encouraged to do so.

      Rape Crisis Scotland are of course funded by the Scottish Government.’

    101. George Ferguson says:

      @stuart mctavish 7:42pm
      Nothing as complicated as that. Cubillas played for Peru in their three one defeat of Scotland in 1978. A fitba joke.

    102. Willie says:

      Off topic I know but one has to observe that another gun slaughter in the US has just occurred.

      A hospital this time with an individual with a gun shooting up a hospital killing at least four and injuring many others.

      It certainly seems that the fun of clearing up mutilated bullet ridden bodies of innocent individuals never stops. Of course in a country that lets people buy heavy weaponry as easily as buying a box of cornflakes it comes as no surprise that over 40,000 US citizens die by guns every year.

      You’ve got to hand it to them though the US does have a love for slaughter. It is after all big business and as one advert used to say ‘ put a Henry under the tree for his Christmas ‘

      Box em up and let’s do it all again, and again, and again. God bless America.

    103. Mark Boyle says:

      Robert Hughes says: 2 June, 2022 at 6:31 am

      Ach well , at least Scotland’s Longest Self-Serving FM will be happy this morning at * her * country’s noble failure . Another failure to add to her ever-growing list .

      We’ll never progress in any sporting competitions – or in general – until we’ve regained our status as an Independent Nation , and that will never happen under this regime of useless frauds , whose only concern is surface appearance . And staying in power at all , any , cost

      In the now legendary “An Audience With Billy Connolly” in 1985, the Big Yin made the point about Scotland “always qualify for the World Cup” (this at a time when England didn’t, and when they did, were swiftly humiliated despite their seeding).

      What has changed since then? The major factor appears to be since 1986 the beaks at Hampden – especially since the appointment of Neil Doncaster – have shifted the focus of the organisation into being little more than a business aid akin to one of those dreary “urban regeneration” deniable assets councils like to create, with a large part of the focus being ensuring the perpetual supremacy of the Old Firm under the absurd Majorism that Scotland can only support two European Class sides and the benefits of them doing better will “trickle down”.

      The bankruptcy of ten sides this century (as opposed to merely one since the end of the Second World War until the millenium) gives you an idea of the result of their handiwork of putting all their eggs in two basketcases – and these “diddy clubs”, “wee teams”, etc. are the cradles of the vast majority of the next generation of home grown talent.

    104. Ottomanboi says:

      Professional sport, surely an oxymoron, guarantees pay win or lose.
      Restoring the spirit of the thing suggests, if you lose you just get pocket money.
      It was Gadhafi of Libya who intimated to the national team, if you lose, don’t bother coming back. A little something to encourage «the boys».
      Of course, it might be the nation is actually rubbish at sport. Didn’t the English invent the thing anyway?
      Bigger issues currently present.

    105. stuart mctavish says:

      @George Fergusson

      Ouch!

      Not sure if Cubillas is the same guy, or whether the joke falls into a similar category, but seem to recall talk of Costain South America (or possibly one of the British embassies) employing someone from that match for the sole purpose of teasing any Scotsmen sent their way in the 80s*

      * ie back in the good old days when Souness generation ensured there was still plenty opportunity to take offence, or even find self effacing enjoyment, at being humbled by great players from outside Europe!

    106. Mark Boyle says:

      Ottomanboi says: 2 June, 2022 at 12:30 pm

      It was Gadhafi of Libya who intimated to the national team, if you lose, don’t bother coming back. A little something to encourage «the boys».

      Think that was the “charming” Bokassa of the Central African Republic, a man whose party trick included executing those who offended him before eating them in front of their relatives.

      The story has also been attributed to Idi Amin, and anyone else who fell out with the Americans, coincidentally enough.

      Back in the 70s’ Africa’s quite remarkable array of blood thirsty dictators sought to use sport as a way of distracting the world from keeping the entire global organisation of Amnesty International employed, in some cases almost single handed. The “Rumble In The Jungle” was the most notorious example, and a matter Ali later regretted not merely because he never truly recovered from it.

    107. Stoker says:

      robertkknight says on 1 June, 2022 at 10:36 pm:

      “Drove through a village in ‘Orange County’ (North Lanarkshire) which will remain nameless, but OMG… the sights you see when you’re out without your trusty flame thrower.”

      Shite doesn’t burn! Or so i’m told! 😉

    108. Willie says:

      Moderation, moderation, moderation Rev.

      Are we not allowed to mention the war physical and or economic and who the winners and losers might be?

      The ordinary citizens having their incomes, pensions and savings destroyed by roaring inflation. Soldiers and civilians on both sides of the conflict are being killed and injured. It is a human tragedy. On the other hand the corporates in oil, gas, armaments and other sectors making huge profits out of the war effort.

      These are things that people in a democracy should be allowed to discuss and comment on. Such comments are not subversive, not offensive, not inappropriate.This war, economic and physical is having huge impacts for us all.

    109. George Ferguson says:

      @stuart mctavish 12:38pm
      Spot on. Probably the worse game Souness played in a Scottish Jersey. For months after, everytime a player was about to take a free kick the crowd would shout Cubillas! Some free kick with the corner of his boot. For balance Souness is up there as a great Scottish player.

    110. Alf Baird says:

      Ruby @ 9:44 am

      “Did someone not say that Scottish Independence would bring about a psychological revolution?”

      Among colonialism’s numerous forms of oppression (e.g. economic, political, social, cultural, linguistic etc) it also results in a people developing a ‘colonial mindset’ (Fanon; Memmi). Hence the well known ‘Scottish Cultural Cringe’, or to use its scientific name, ‘Appropriated Racial Oppression’. Liberation is the only cure for this psychological condition as: “only the complete liquidation of colonization permits the colonized to be freed. The liquidation of colonization is nothing but a prelude to complete liberation, to self-recovery” (Albert Memmi).

    111. Ottomanboi says:

      MARK BOYLE.
      My parents say it also sounds like Saddam…whatever, it is possible to carry the olympic thing about taking part being more important than winning too far. It becomes an excuse for medocrity.
      It doesn’t matter if you fail? Actually, in the harsh light of the real world, it does.
      Pampered western footballers, mental age going on 5ish, wouldn’t know anything about that.
      Facing that rough team must have been really «upsetting».
      There, there, said FM Nicola, it disnae maiter, s’only a game. Bit like politics….

    112. Ottomanboi says:

      ALF BAIRD 1:34
      That is so true. Colonialism is psychological. Soldiers, guns and gallows may be the traditional emblems of colonial rule but the real stuff is fed directly into the mind. When generations are involved soldiers, guns and gallows become redundant.
      The colonized eventually perform to order. They have internalized their rôle.
      Unfortunately, presented with alternatives many may be in denial, so conditioned they have become to knowing their place.

    113. John Main says:

      Scott 2:17 am

      I would like to see “the people” trying to get oil and gas from under the sea floor, possibly hundreds of miles from land, possibly under hundreds of meters of water.

      Until “the people” show any competency in this area, I am happy to leave it in the capable hands of Shell and the rest of them.

      But agreed. Great news for Scots who are prepared to graft in real jobs. Great news for Scots who want to see self-sufficiency in oil and gas.

      BTW, I have no idea what my dentist does with my extracted teeth. They are valueless. As oil and gas is bloody obviously not valueless, your comparison is pointless.

    114. James Che. says:

      Get those Scots working the oil.

      Imperative that they do not own it, or receive tax revenues from it though.

    115. James Che. says:

      Curious thought .

      Do those closer to the oil production where it comes on shore pay a higher price at the petrol pumps.

    116. Alf Baird says:

      Ottomanboi @ 3:15 pm

      “Unfortunately, presented with alternatives many may be in denial, so conditioned they have become to knowing their place.”

      Yes, denial (of oppression etc) is an established symptom of the ARO/IR condition, which may be so embedded that ‘a people’ reject even their own liberation, as we saw in 2014. Those ‘civic nationalists’ who seek to convince the so-called ‘soft No’s’ are probably unaware that they are dealing with a psychological condition, which is difficult to treat, and the remedy is not to be found among policies on currency, pensions or anything else.

    117. Stoker says:

      “Rare sight for amateur astronomers as five planets align”

      https://archive.ph/Wv4d3

    118. Republicofscotland says:

      As a supposed indyref is on the horizon for next, lets not forget who the opposition is. This weekend is wall to wall propaganda for the old parasite queen lizzie, who purred like a cat when she found out yes has lost in 2014.

      We also had the supposedly neutral Civil Service head Sir Nicholas MacPherson come out and say after yes lost that the Civil Service was bias in favour of the union.

      Unsurprisingly MacPherson now works for the betrayer Sturgeon.

      “THE founder of a pro-Union think tank which operated during the first Scottish independence referendum has been given an OBE in the Queen’s Birthday Honour’s list, The National can reveal.”

      Dr Azeem Ibrahim was behind the now defunct Scotland Institute which fell off the radar in 2016, but has now been given an award for “services to the Union”.

      The Glasgow-born academic has penned numerous opinion pieces arguing against independence, particularly in regards to foreign policy and defence, and holds numerous titles. He runs his own foundation, which funded numerous Scotland Institute projects.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20184265.scotland-institute-think-tank-founder-given-obe-services-union%2F

    119. Republicofscotland says:

      “PRINCE Andrew will not attend a key Jubilee event after “testing positive for Covid-19″.

      Buckingham Palace said that the Queen’s son – who earlier this year paid out millions rather than face a civil court case over an alleged sexual assault of a minor – would no longer attend the Jubilee service of thanksgiving at St Paul’s Cathedral.”

      No surprises here, as the head ponce queen lizzies son the sleazy pal of the suicided Epstein who has paid out millions to gag accusers misses the bucket of sewage celebrations.

      As many folk in the UK struggle to heat and eat, we are expected to celebrate the life of one of the greatest privileged ponces, and her brood.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20184556.prince-andrew-miss-queens-jubilee-event-testing-positive-covid%2F

    120. Republicofscotland says:

      Westminster staging post smeared (job well done) but for the wrong reasons I think, should’ve been for indy. Ellis will need to go outside and clean it up.

      “PROTESTERS have thrown red paint over the front of the UK Government’s offices in Edinburgh.

      The front entrance to Queen Elizabeth House was covered in red paint as activists held up banners saying “Just Stop Oil” and “blood on your hands”.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20184764.red-paint-thrown-front-uk-governments-edinburgh-hq-amid-climate-protest%2F

    121. Republicofscotland says:

      I don’t care what anyone says, Gibson movie Braveheart lit a fire in some Scots, a fire that had lain dormant for sometime.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20180411.mel-gibson-fans-yell-freedom-braveheart-star-talks-scottish-independence%2F

    122. Republicofscotland says:

      The head of the COPFS’s footsoldiers (Police Scotland) Ian Livingstone given obedience gong by the auld English queen.

    123. Ottomanboi says:

      REPUBLICOFSCOTLAND
      6:10pm
      Actions that have nothing to do with independence. Student prank? Rather pathetic.
      Also, very likely non Scots with little regard for the need for jobs in this country.
      Try that in Saudi Arabia? Norway?

    124. Dorothy Devine says:

      And did those protestors come by car ? bus? train?

    125. PacMan says:

      The impression I get from these young climate protesters, as well as these Trans Rights Activists, is that these issues are the only ones that have any chance of success.

      The state has effectively shut down any chance for large scale movements that would result in any meaningful change so either young protesters give up or gravitate to fringe and harmless protests like the one shown today.

      Besides, most people are too busy trying to make a living to have time to protest. These are all middle class Tarquins and Portia’s with too much money and time on their hands.

    126. Robert Hughes says:

      Stoker @ …cannae remember . Thanks for that link . More uncut fuckery .

      Ruby @ earlier . Aye , it think success in international competitions is – not totally , but in large measure down to a strong sense of national identity .

      Mark @ a wee bit later . Agree . As for the baleful * cultural * dominance/influence of CelGers on Scottish football – and more generally : one of things I ( wildly ) imagined could happen after Independence is the dissolution of both teams and the formation of a Glasgow United side : aye , I know , might take a * while * , but it would make sense financially and competitively ; more importantly , it could finally end the scourge of sectarianism that has bedevilled Glasgow and surrounding areas far too long .

      Out n about around my area today , beautiful day , sun shining , blue skies all the way and an * impressive * display of Jubilee Jamboree jazz fluttering in the breeze , images of ( not so ) Busy Lizzie n the kids , Union Jacks aplenty , bunting a-go-go

      Ah , fair swells the heart with pride to know all those New Scots feel so comfortable here in the Northlands 🙂

    127. PacMan says:

      Haven’t been following these Jubilee celebrations but from what I’ve saw, the vast majority of them is being held in London and the only Scottish ones are from those solid Tory voting middle class areas.

      Looking at the monarchy from a non-independence perspective, the monarchy is seen as a distant, quaint thing that is only celebrated by the rich and well-off. It is a very middle class leaning institution and for most people, it is hard to relate to.

      Of course you have the mad Rangers GBTQ mob who are fanatical about it but when they get calmed down from their football fanatical fervour and get on with their day to day lives, do they honestly have anything in common to the monarchy or really support it?

      As previously mentioned, it is a symptom of colonialism, as the Marxists would say false consciousness.

      It’s hard to see if this will ever be broken but IMHO, regardless of your views on the monarchy, the Queen does have a lot of good will among the general population and when she retires and hand the reins to Dozy Prince Charlie, it is hard to see this good will maintained.

      From a Scottish perspective, it could well be detrimental to unionism. It’s a shame the SNP doesn’t have any interest in exploiting it if it happens.

    128. Republicofscotland says:

      “Actions that have nothing to do with independence. Student prank? Rather pathetic.”

      Ottomanboi.

      Action by them against a staging post in Edinburgh is fine by me, what do you think goes on in the Britnat shibboleth called Queen Elizabeth House, or in Kentigern House in Glasgow.

    129. Ruby says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      2 June, 2022 at 7:14 pm

      And did those protestors come by car ? bus? train?

      Did they all have a day of work, school, college?
      I walked through that square earlier today. I probably got there when everything was over.

      Although I did see a large police van and a number of young people standing in a group in the middle of the square, all had backpacks. Initially I thought they were tourists waiting for their tour bus then I saw one had a placard. It was partially hidden but I could see ‘Jackdaw” So then I thought there’s been a protest and that’s why the police are here. I didn’t spot any red paint but then I wasn’t looking towards the building. I’m surprised/sorry I missed it. Sometimes the photos in news reports make things look worse than they are so it may not have been as bad as shown in the close cropped photos.

      I’m just wondering if there was any ‘Queen’s jubilee memorabilia’ damaged by the red paint. I’m pretty sure there would have been a fair amount decorating the doors of the UK government building.

      If so the charges may not be confined to just criminal damage they may include charges of treason!

      The New Street side of that building has a massive Union Jack. I wonder why the protesters didn’t use that wall to splatter paint on? That would have made a great photo. Perhaps they are all Unionists!

      In this article
      https://archive.ph/mpjA6
      it states:

      “All nine protestors are expected to be arrested for criminal damage.”

      I’m trying to figure out why these young people were standing in the middle of the square. Could it be the police instructed them not to move. Were they the nine protesters who are expected to be arrested?

    130. Ruby says:

      Latest ‘Shauny Boy’ video

      https://tinyurl.com/4zykyban

      It’s brilliant.

      Ending:
      Nicola puts on her ‘See You Jimmy’ hat and rushes off to a emergency photo op.

    131. Scott says:

      @George Ferguson

      Souness didn’t even play against Peru in ’78.

      @John Main

      What a plamf you are.

      Nothing is worthless on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/b/Human-Teeth/4066/bn_7023257634

    132. George Ferguson says:

      @Scott 9:05pm
      I stand corrected. He played against Holland. I am glad you took the time to view the Cubillas goal. If you haven’t you should. Last night wasn’t a humiliation, Scotland were beaten by a better side. The 1978 World Cup damaged the cause of Independence for many years. And you needed to live through it to appreciate why. I have a cunning plan though. In 2026 there are 48 teams playing in the Canada/US/Mexico tournament and not 32. My plan is to petition FIFA to make that 196 teams. With 195 countries in the world even if Moonbase Alpha field a team we will still qualify.

    133. John Main says:

      @CrapMan 8:11 pm

      48 Scottish kings buried on just Iona alone, yet you reckon royalty is a symptom of colonialism.

      Aye, no doubt eating with a knife and fork is too.

      Get a grip.

    134. Dorothy Devine says:

      There has been some sycophantic ordure falling out of Scottish mouths tonight.

    135. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This is what real politicians are meant to do – speak truth to power, especially when it’s not fashionable.

      twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1532339552072916993

    136. Scott says:

      George Ferguson says:
      2 June, 2022 at 9:29 pm

      @Scott 9:05pm
      I stand corrected. He played against Holland. I am glad you took the time to view the Cubillas goal. If you haven’t you should. Last night wasn’t a humiliation, Scotland were beaten by a better side. The 1978 World Cup damaged the cause of Independence for many years. And you needed to live through it to appreciate why.

      I watched it live on the telly in ’78, you patronising prick.

      I’d say the ’79 referendum did way more damage.

    137. Mark Boyle says:

      John Main says:
      2 June, 2022 at 9:32 pm

      @CrapMan 8:11 pm

      48 Scottish kings buried on just Iona alone, yet you reckon royalty is a symptom of colonialism.

      Aye, no doubt eating with a knife and fork is too.

      Get a grip.

      For heaven’s sake John, don’t be so ridiculous!

      Eating with a knife and fork is RACIST!

      Look at all those Chinese restaurants in Scotland where they are forced to give customers white western cutlery because we refuse to learn how to use chopsticks.

      BTW, if you think I am joking …

      https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/food-writer-sparks-outrage-after-24651233

    138. George Ferguson says:

      @Scott 10:14pm
      Tut tut. You don’t see a connection between 78 and 79?. How much is the SNP paying these days?

    139. Scott says:

      George Ferguson says:
      2 June, 2022 at 10:19 pm

      @Scott 10:14pm
      Tut tut. You don’t see a connection between 78 and 79?. How much is the SNP paying these days?

      In ’78, Scotland had belief in its football team, and in ’79 we again believed in our people and this time qualified for the next round, but all the deid folk & UK Parliament vetoed our progression…

      Are you pished?

    140. George Ferguson says:

      @Scott 10:49pm
      No I am not Scott. If I was I wouldn’t be able to counter your argument so easily. There are many contributors on this blog. Some bring insight or intellect or humour. I don’t always agree with them but appreciate their contribution. I find nothing about your contribution that I can engage with or find genuine. So I will scroll past your comments from now on.

    141. Breeks says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      2 June, 2022 at 10:03 pm

      This is what real politicians are meant to do – speak truth to power, especially when it’s not fashionable.

      twitter.com/wallacemick/status/1532339552072916993

      Agreed, but with some qualification.

      There are two Americas.

      One is the rabid warmongering colonial monster unhinged by it’s list for power, might and dominance.

      The other is the pioneering America I grew up watching on tv, utterly enthralled as it sent brave men into harms way to push human boundaries and put men on the moon and build international space stations.

      I had a poster on my wall with Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins and Buzz Aldrin when I was still a pre-school three four year old. Names I will never forget because I probably learned to read looking at them.

      That America, the latter, was a “wee boy’s” America, the best friend any nation could possibly imagine, they were kindred, maybe one generation off actual family, “The Good Guys” who were kind by default and you felt totally comfortable about America being strong. When that Challenger Space Shuttle blew up, I felt utterly wretched and so sad for all of “Good” America. It was just horrible, a pure, uncomplicated horrible. A lot like JFK actually.

      But to quote that Cherokee fable about the two wolves in everybody, the good wolf and the bad wolf,… It just feels like America has been going out of it’s way to feed the bad wolf these past few decades. Not just feeding him either, because that bad boy is armed to the teeth and thoroughly nasty.

      I know, I know, when I was just a wee boy and you didn’t know about the Cold War or that Apollo 11 was the brainchild of Nazi Scientists, and America wasn’t so much the nice guy, but you kinda felt they at least had a leash on the bad wolf. Not anymore.

      Stop feeding the Bad Wolf America. It’s gonna end in tears.

    142. Scott says:

      George Ferguson says:
      2 June, 2022 at 10:55 pm

      @Scott 10:49pm
      No I am not Scott. If I was I wouldn’t be able to counter your argument so easily. There are many contributors on this blog. Some bring insight or intellect or humour. I don’t always agree with them but appreciate their contribution. I find nothing about your contribution that I can engage with or find genuine. So I will scroll past your comments from now on.

      Why did you ditch ‘Tannadice’ as your moniker, was it to do with your plan to hire a private plane from Edinburgh to Poland and you shat yourself at the thought of the polis chapping the door for a word?

      Was ’79 more damaging to Scotland than Argentina ’78?

      Do you regret giving money away to save a school that wasn’t falling down?

      Are you pished noo?

    143. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      Blimey, that’s a big topic!

      Just hitting the sack, but maybe we can discuss it over the weekend.

      Hoots.

      😉

    144. Breeks says:

      Another puke of double standards and hypocrisy from the Herald, one of the scandalous skinheads putting the boot in to Alex Salmond’s reputation, now suddenly repentant with sanctimonious horseshit about the sins of disinformation.

      https://archive.ph/yDdKM

      I’m reliably informed the expression “As far as I can see”, has no place in any printed news story ever written, but since it precedes another random defamation of ALBA we can presume it wasn’t intended to be there as news.

      The Herald delivering more carrot on behalf of it’s patron in chief Nicola Sturgeon… diced and projectile.

    145. robertkknight says:

      Headline…

      “Prolonged Laughing Ends With Slipped Disk for 96 Year Old Billionaire”

    146. Dorothy Devine says:

      Having read the Herald article online I know why I stopped buying that paper ,indeed stopped buying any paper.

      I have gone paperless and saved myself more than 10 quid a week!
      And I do not miss them at all particularly when someone pops articles online and I see the utter ordure they now consider newsworthy.

      With 3 exceptions all of them on the Guardian which has no paywall, Marina Hyde , John Crace and the entire cartoon department.

    147. Ottomanboi says:

      REPUBLICOFSCOTLAND
      Throwing paint on buildings is not the stuff of popular revolt.
      It is the woke response to anything that such creatures of the trend find «offensive»: you name it and they’ll find a reason to get upset.
      I’m the same generation and I find such action juvenile, petulant and devoid of rationality as to purpose.
      Not impressed by many people of my generation, smug in their parent sub’d bubbles of ignorance. Perversely, that does serve the interests of the socio-political and economic establishments. Don’t expect their brains to be able to join the dots on that puzzle though. WEF etc are content. More useful fodder.
      Older and wiser heads than mine have observed that the young are always a disappointment.
      The «promise» of the young is a pipedream of the old and the perennial plaything of politicians and their like.
      I am learning the art of the heretic well.

    148. Mark Boyle says:

      Dorothy Devine says: 3 June, 2022 at 8:10 am

      Having read the Herald article online I know why I stopped buying that paper ,indeed stopped buying any paper.

      I have gone paperless and saved myself more than 10 quid a week!
      And I do not miss them at all particularly when someone pops articles online and I see the utter ordure they now consider newsworthy.

      With 3 exceptions all of them on the Guardian which has no paywall, Marina Hyde , John Crace and the entire cartoon department.

      The Herald is just a Rangers fanzine now and they don’t even bother to hide it, full of old duffers “on the square” stuck in a 1950s time warp topping up their pension pots while the eds pad out the rag with pieces from kids on the StrathTech/CaleyPoly/GlesgaClyde churnalism courses as part of their “work experience” who are spat out after. Newsquest doesn’t care, since “it’s only Scotland”, they make more money with their English regionals. Give it a few more years, and it will be flogged off to the Mirror group and it will achieve it’s true aim of being the Daily Record for Scots who like pretending to be posh.

      The Guardian was once an excellent paper: now it’s just a loony cult for cosseted Middle Englanders and Scotlanders who want to pretend they’re left wing but only so long as someone else is paying for it. The cartoonist John Fardell has enjoyed an excellent career lampooning Guardianistas for years (The Modern Parents, The Critics, Ferdinand The Foodie).

    149. James Che. says:

      The best way to agree with deal with the people climate change activists.

      Take the cars and all fuel based transport away from them, and their households.

      Take their mobile phones of of them away from them and their households.

      Take the heating and cooking facilities away from them.

      For all these thing are the root cause of processing oil to products,

      Take their plastic soled shoes away from them

      And in- prison them for throwing chemical paint at a building,
      as it will need more chemicals for removing it,

      Oh the irony of pretending to be the leaders of climate changers…..

    150. Ruby says:

      The most serious and most damaging piece of disinformation spread in Scotland was done by the MSM particularly ‘The Herald’.

      Being a rapist and a serial sex offender is a lot more serious than being a lesbian.

      The Balmoral story makes ‘The Virgin Nicola’ a lot more interesting & human than the one of being in a loveless marriage of convenience.

      I find the Balmoral story hard to believe simple because Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t do human emotions.

      I would find a story about Nicola Sturgeon being built by Hanson Robotics more believable.

      https://tinyurl.com/2mhb5maa

      #HumanoidRobotNicola

    151. James Che. says:

      A conspiracy theory, ONE WORLD ORDER? Eh no!

      ONE WORLD PLANNED DIS-ORDER. YES.

      You have to create problems, so you can find solutions

      To bring in new regulations and laws for all minions.

    152. Robert Hughes says:

      ” The Guardian was once an excellent paper: now it’s just a loony cult for cosseted Middle Englanders and Scotlanders who want to pretend they’re left wing but only so long as someone else is paying for it. The cartoonist John Fardell has enjoyed an excellent career lampooning Guardianistas for years (The Modern Parents, The Critics, Ferdinand The Foodie).”

      Spot-on Mark

      ” I find the Balmoral story hard to believe simple because Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t do human emotions. ” LOL ! Same , Ruby . I also find it implausible ( though not impossible ) for the same reason most such tales are ie a lot of people would have to be keeping schtum and given the human tendency/love to/of gossip someone would have spilled this one before now : unless , of course , they were threatened .The Herald with it’s renowned hypocrisy is just referring to this as a way of getting the story to a wider audience while at the same time hand-wringing about * misinformation *

      Ottomanboi . Excellent post . Think we have to invert the old ’60s Counter Culture dictum to ” Never trust anyone UNDER 30 ” 🙂

    153. James Che. says:

      To have a war.

      You need to build a narrative of two opposing sides

      Then you have to pretend you are always the goody going to the rescue.

      This makes the easily led sheep follow you. And gives you the go ahead.

      Then the cult of killing can destroy countries and humans.

      Then you place your own new heads of state in that country.

      And you gain power, control and financial resources from the country.

      When done or resources fail.

      Abandon country, leaving weapons, chemicals and unexploded weapons behind.

      Repeat history in next country…

      Keep home grown sheep mentally corraled and occupied with chaos and confusion meanwhile.

      To cynical?

      Or to realistic of todays events around the world.

    154. Ruby says:

      What makes me slightly suspicious about the Balmoral story is that Andrew Learmonth has written so venomously about it in ‘The Herald’.

      The story is so off the wall it makes you wonder where it originated from and if there isn’t some grains of truth in the story.

    155. James Che. says:

      We are deliberately occupied with Chaos.
      And War after War.
      WITH Mental subversive FEAR tatics.
      And purposely instilled with the idea of helplessness against all this the crazyness confusion, and chaos.

      So we do nothing,
      Except complain to the very leaders causing the problem, that we want to fix it. Catch 22.

      The power of the people is now subversively passed on to the leaders wishing to hold the control of those very same people.

      We are fooled by the camouflage of deceit.

      All the news head lines of the mis- conception of right and wrong are part of that build up.
      Meant to confuse,.

      All the fakeness of lying to the people, getting found out, and no punishments forth coming is surreal propaganda, to disempower us.

      To feel helpless,
      To feel we are in a society where we have no justice.
      And therefore do not attempt to fight back.
      And the feeling grows of being helpless against the tidal onslaught.

      Then one by one some stop being sheep and see through the purpose of confusion and chaos of head lines being suddenly implemented on this generation around the world.

    156. Mark Boyle says:

      Robert Hughes says:
      3 June, 2022 at 11:28 am

      Think we have to invert the old ’60s Counter Culture dictum to ” Never trust anyone UNDER 30 ” ?

      Time to rework an old punk tenet:

      NEVER TRUST A HIPPY SNOWFLAKE!

    157. Ruby says:

      “Boris Johnson booed arriving at Jubilee service”

      I wonder what would have happened if Prince Andrew hadn’t ‘pulled a sickie’.

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Genuine Q:

      Since this place has been dormant, where else have you been going for ‘news’?

    159. sarah says:

      O/T: If you need a laugh, as I do, I see WGD has launched his “annual” crowdfunder…

    160. robbo says:

      sarah says:
      3 June, 2022 at 12:50 pm
      O/T: If you need a laugh, as I do, I see WGD has launched his “annual” crowdfunder…

      Dearie me. Does it need a new roof already?

    161. PacMan says:

      1977, it was the Queens silver jubilee and there was Anarchy in the UK.

      It’s 2022 and it’s the Queens Platinum jubilee. Judging by John Main & Mark Boyle comments, it’s Circle Jerking in the UK.

      HI GUYS

      Only joking, the Bromance thing is fine. If Prince William and Mike Tindall can do it then it’s fine for you two.

    162. Robert Hughes says:

      Mark Boyle . Aye ! Though those Punk * Rebels * didn’t exactly tear down the Old Order either .

      ” Ever felt you’ve been conned ? ” to ” Buy this lovely Country Life butter ” didn’t take too long eh ?

      Ian B .

      Caitlin Johnstone . Chris Hedges . The Grey Zone . I would have added UK Column but got fed-up with their – what I perceive to be – Anti – Scottish Independence stance : though maybe it’s just Anti- Sturgeon ? I also like Russell Brand ; he’s pretty spot-on about most things , provides good information and – always a redeeming feature – he’s very funny

    163. David Lyon says:

      Keep an eye out for large anonymous donations toward the end.

    164. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Hughes –

      Thanks.

      You’re right about the UKC – David Scott and Alex Thomson never miss an opportunity to have a dig at the whole idea of Scottish (and Welsh) independence, but I’ve never managed to nail a clear reason.

      That said, their work on ‘the bug’ and Ukraine has been, IMO, exemplary.

    165. Dan says:

      @ Ian B

      For various reasons I’ve taken my foot off the gas with regard to keeping up with news and events as much as I did in the past.
      I’ve always campaigned honestly, and to the best of my albeit limited abilities, but I am not a snake oil salesman.
      So with all that has transpired due to the actions of the heid folk that were meant to be leading oor team, I really struggle to promote a positive view in conversations, when quite so many of the “best” of oor oan lot are just as corrupt and useless as the rest of the fuckers.

      I’ll take a swatch at twitter feeds from the likes of Grousebeater and Denise Findlay as they continue to maintain energetic levels of output.
      Also drop into

      https://www.voices.scot/

      where various Indy related page links are collated by another Stuart, which included this article from a few days back on the Scottish National Investment Bank that I haven’t seen linked to here yet.

      http://robinmcalpine.org/a-little-map-of-whats-wrong/

    166. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan (1.27) –

      Cheers.

      @Robert Hughes –

      I replied earlier but it went straight into moderation. I simply said that David Scott and Alex Thomson (of UKColumn) never miss an opportunity to slate both Scottish and Welsh independence movements but I’ve never heard them explain why.

    167. Dan says:

      @ Ian B

      Re. Those UKC dudes, suspect they are just paid establishment divide and rule tools.
      DS was also pro Brexit. I imagine* he just sits in a hoose full of numerous computers and smartphones endlessly punting out files of stuff onto the internet, with very little to zero actual engagement with those he lives next to.
      * I may not be imagining. 😉

    168. Ottomanboi says:

      ROBERTHUGHES.
      My rather jaundiced take on the under 20s, a section to which i, for the moment still belong, is the that so many demonstrate a complete lack of curiosity. Curiosity is essential to the process of learning. This first struck me with regard to response to my ethnicity. A couple showed interested but the many were indifferent. One of the indifferent actually aspired to joining the foreign service!
      I struck me forcefully that in my relatively short life i would probably have had more experience of «life» than they could ever have. As for independence….
      I believe the West, the Amercanized West, has created a massive existential problem.
      Thinking, reasoning, questioning appear to have fallen into disuse.
      A symptom of covidianism? Not a few of a heuristic orientation might think so.

    169. Breeks says:

      Hey it’s Friday!

      Isn’t there meant to be a starting gun for an Independence Referendum fired on a Friday?

    170. Republicofscotland says:

      Ottomanboi.
      @10am.

      You’re reading to much into my comment, I don’t particularly care what their reason are/were (though for the indy cause would’ve been better) the fact that they chose to do it to a staging post in Scotland is good enough me.

    171. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      If the Murrells fire a starting gun inside St. Paul’s they’ll be in deep soapy bubble.

      😉

    172. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi.

      No intention meant to be condescending. Take it as a compliment.

      But some of you’re comments are older and wiser beyond your Years,

    173. Republicofscotland says:

      I can’t stand the roal parasites, however we can use them to firstly negate some of the die-hard unionists who would vote for independence if we keep say we’ll keep the royals during an indyref campaign, and by doing so we can also partially negate the unionist/royals secretive campaign to keep Scotland tied to this union.

      After we leave the union we can at some point have a vote on whether or not to keep the royals. Lets use them for our benefit.

      “Last year William and wife Kate, the Countess of Strathearn, held a private meeting with Gordon Brown – who is running a renewed campaign to keep Scotland in the Union.

      The talks with the former prime minister and chief of the Our Scottish Future think tank took place at the Queen’s official Edinburgh residence.

      It came amid reports that the Queen will lead a royal “charm offensive” to save the Union alongside the Earl and Countess of Strathearn. The strategy is said to be discretely backed by Downing Street.

      And earlier this year, it was reported again that the royals were planning to spend more time in Scotland to bolster support for the Union.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F19403303.platinum-jubilee-queen-said-scottish-independence%2F

    174. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 June, 2022 at 1:50 pm

      @Dan (1.27) –

      Cheers.

      @Robert Hughes –

      I replied earlier but it went straight into moderation.

      Interesting! Would you be able to do some testing to try to find the dodgy word? You could perhaps do the testing in ‘off topic’

      I would like to add it to my list.

      Did your post contain any of the following?

      Russ_ia
      Ukra_ine
      Pu_tin
      ski_er
      set_tler
      rec_tum.
      an_us

    175. Ruby says:

      Testing

      Moonhowlers

      Just testing to see if moonhowlers might be the latest word to be added to the banned list.

    176. Mark Boyle says:

      PacMan says: 3 June, 2022 at 1:05 pm

      1977, it was the Queens silver jubilee and there was Anarchy in the UK.

      Anarchy In The UK was 1976. HTH.

    177. Ottomanboi says:

      JAMES CHE.
      Thanks! Put it down to having a childhood well and truly screwed by external events.
      I had to grow up very quickly. There are tens of millions like me in the world.
      It happens, you just get on with the life.
      Fortunately, i have brilliant parents and extended family.

    178. Mark Boyle says:

      Robert Hughes says: 3 June, 2022 at 1:17 pm

      Mark Boyle . Aye ! Though those Punk * Rebels * didn’t exactly tear down the Old Order either .

      ” Ever felt you’ve been conned ? ” to ” Buy this lovely Country Life butter ” didn’t take too long eh ?

      Thirty two years. It took Roger Daltrey of The Who only twenty years to start advertising designer Swizz oops I mean Swiss watches and the credit card charging the world’s largest interest, and only four years from their last global hit, “You Better, You Bet”.

      In Mr Rotten’s defence, he’d already done a (very good) documentary series called “Megabugs” and “Shark Attack” for the Discovery Channel, and had been “rehabilitated” by the mainstream media: ie. finally admitting maybe the UK was overdue a very large cultural kick up the arse at the time, and it needed people like him to do it, however unpleasant.

      At least he’s not gone the Steve Jones route of happily allowing his own interpretation of history to be rewritten for money – that series “Pistol” out just now … oh what a let down!

    179. Robert Hughes says:

      Ian B . If you meant ” news ” in a Scottish Independence context … probably the same as some people here eg Barrhead Boy/Prism .
      Grousebeater . Yours For Scotland . Gordon Dangerfield’s ( sporadic ) posts are excellent and – for me – the best commentator on * Scottish Affairs * Robin McAlpine .

      Ottomanboi . Another good post . Wish there were more young people with your impressive grasp of * local * and global issues .

      Good comments also Jimmy Che & Dan ; and I know exactly what you mean about struggling to have positive things to say about Independence when it’s so associated in the public consciousness with the ongoing horror show of the Sturgeon/NSNP regime . Still , like you I imagine , I always try to push through that obstacle and make the case

    180. Ruby says:

      What’s the problem with the Paul Kavanagh claiming benefits?

      It seems outrageous that a man with a disability has to beg online just to have the equivalent of a minimum wage.

    181. Ruby says:

      “I have already written the bulk of a new book dealing with the topics which are likely to be prominent in the referendum campaign to come. This merely needs to be revised and brought up to date. When the official referendum campaign begins it will be published online, copyright free, in a print ready format so that it can be downloaded for free and freely printed off and copied by any individuals or organisations which might like to make use of it or distribute it.” Paul Kavanagh

      I wonder what the book will be called! ‘Wee Ginger Book’?
      How long will he wait to revise & update his ‘Wee Ginger Book’?
      Should he not be doing that now? ‘Official referendum campaign’ must be very close. I believe I may have heard the Independence Referendum starting gun being fired today around lunchtime!

    182. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ruby –

      Yes, you’re right. It turns out Uk–raine is banned?

      Hadn’t even crossed my mind, so thanks for the heads-up.

      😉

    183. James Che. says:

      Ottomanboi.

      There are many kinds of learning and education.

      But the university of learnt life, is the best one.

      Its hard work, very emotional, and often unfair, with very little exam qualifications on paper.

      But the resulting wisdom can not be learned parrot fashion or solely by one particular teacher getting promotion.

      I do not know the name or country of you’ re school, and i wont put you in that position by asking.
      However i surmise I must have been a student of the same school prior to your generation.

      Keep up the good work,

    184. Republicofscotland says:

      It must be getting close the betrayer pushing the GRA bill as Sturgeon’s fanzine pushes alleged incidents against the community. Such as small percentage, yet it comes well before Scottish independence.

      “HATE crimes against the LGBT community in Scotland are rising as police figures show an over 100% increase in attacks with a transgender aggravator in the space of a single year.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20186407.transgender-hate-crimes-double-scotland-year%2F

    185. Andy Ellis says:

      Testing

      Nativist

      Tourette’s

      Skidmark

      Blut und boden

      Have to keep ruby occupied somehow. 🙂

    186. Republicofscotland says:

      In the off chance that Sturgeon does hold a half-arsed rushed through indyref next year, I’d imagine the media is for now in most quarters keeping its power dry, for they must have plenty on her, I was quite surprised to see this come about.

      “MEMBERS of the Holyrood committee probing the Scottish Government’s botched handling of harassment complaints against Alex Salmond have been interviewed under caution by the Ethical Standards Commissioner, The Herald understands.

      The independent watchdog received more than 1,171 official complaints in 2021 – 766 of those were in March when the Scottish Parliament probe came to a head.

      Currently, according to figures released to The Herald under Freedom of Information, 729 of those complaints are still “open”.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20185479.salmond-inquiry-members-questioned-oath%2F

    187. James Che. says:

      Robert Hughes.

      It is lovely to recognise the younger ones making the effort through the entanglement of this modern life, for them to maintain a sound centre of gravity.
      that many schooled or university type people have never learned to or yet to reach that level,

      The official line of education is a must, for the three Rs, I agree,
      but so much political propaganda is tied into that official curriculum for history, geology, and the english empire of old.

      Sometimes I understand why the younger generation do no research and, as a rule are misled to believing everything they are taught in that system is all their is to learn,

      Its british broadcasting within the education of schooling at its very worst.

      Having said that their are a good number on here that took out of the official line of education what they needed and recognised the rest was manure.

    188. Ruby says:

      I find reading the comments on the ‘doggers site’ very interesting. There’s this one for example

      yesindyref2 says:
      June 2, 2022 at 11:20 pm

      Mmm well, a good article here all the same.

      The article he links to is

      https://archive.ph/yDdKM

      I’m keeping my fingers crossed that ‘yesindyref2’ doesn’t trigger moderation for the same reason as ‘Scottish_ski_er’ did.

    189. Ruby says:

      Oh look I’ve trigger Ellis. It’s just so easy!

      Looks as if he’s testing his own weird vocabulary.

      I wonder why he listed ‘Blut und boden’ and not ‘blood and soil’

    190. Dan says:

      Just caught a couple of mins of jubilee footage and it was better than I expected.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2o4W4-ULjM

    191. Andy Ellis says:

      @Ottomanboi 2.11 pm

      “I believe the West, the Amercanized West, has created a massive existential problem.
      Thinking, reasoning, questioning appear to have fallen into disuse.
      A symptom of covidianism? Not a few of a heuristic orientation might think so.”

      I’m not sure heuristics explain why we are where we are globally, or indeed that the massive existential problems we face are solely down to “the West”. Perhaps too many do think that what worked in the past will work in the future, or believed (and still believe?) that somehow everything will work out: climate change will be solved, we won’t blow ourselves up, world poverty will be solved, regressive political regimes will fall and freedom and equality will prevail etc., etc.

      Thinking, reasoning and questioning wouldn’t seem to be characteristics of the alternative political/ideological systems to “the West”. Democracy may be the worst system, apart from all the others that have been tried from time to time as some old privileged white imperialist once said. Of course, you can’t really expect the oligarchs and masters of the universe to give up their power and influence without a fight, but in the end does it really matter whether they are democratic Western Americanized oligarchs, or corporatist Chinese oligarchs, Russian statist oligarchs or islamist oligarchs…?

      We’d all like to think the future might lend itself to a world full of happy, well adjusted proto-scandinavian style egalitarian democracies, that all the major challenges facing the world will somehow be overcome, but it ain’t necessarily so.

      Education seems to be high on the list of things which might help: an educated population controls its growth and is more likely to promote values of democratic accountability, open government, the rule of law and separation of powers which encourage societies which can tackle overpopulation, threats to the environment, pollution, poverty, world hunger, lack of access to decent health care and the threat of civil violence, war and ethnic conflict.

      “Covidianism” may just entrench the a-scientific woo-woo that we shouldn’t trust experts. It’s not a huge step from denying the reality of Covid to denying the reality of climate change. I reckon existential problems are better solved with the help of experts, not folk whose worldview eventually leads to them strutting around the US Capitol building in a buffalo headdress in crowds waving the ("Tractor" - Ed)ous flag of the Confederacy.

    192. James Che. says:

      My comments are going through moderation at the moment for the first time ever in my life on any site.
      I know what words are being checked

      These words are not blasphemous, nor are they name calling, nor derogatory to any other particular human,

      The words I used use to belong to FREE PEOPLE,
      interestingly slow captivity.

    193. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/6BhQ5

      Oh yeah. That’s how much self centred Royalists care about Scotland.

    194. Breeks says:

      Or wait… my mistake, that was 2021, but still, there is high risk.

    195. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      3 June, 2022 at 5:43 pm

      I’m not sure….Perhaps…or…Thinking, reasoning and questioning wouldn’t seem to be…We’d all like to think the future might lend itself to a world full of happy…but it ain’t necessarily so.

      Education seems to be high on the list of things which might help…

      —-

      Waffling vagueness, as per.

    196. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott

      “Waffling vagueness, as per.”

      As opposes to your incisive wit and laser like focus on……errrmmm…let me see…

      300 year old treaties: CHECK!

      Dancing frantically on the head of constitutional pins: CHECK!

      Obsessive, creepy stalking of folk in here from behind the cosy blanket of anonymity: CHECK!

      Feel free to give us the benefit of your hot take on the issue at hand raised by Ottomanboi Scott, or you know….do you usual, and sit on the sidelines throwing rocks at those more erudite than yourself.

    197. Ruby says:

      James Che. says:
      3 June, 2022 at 6:01 pm

      My comments are going through moderation at the moment for the first time ever in my life on any site.

      These words are not blasphemous, nor are they name calling, nor derogatory to any other particular human

      What words are you referring to?

    198. Ruby says:

      Oh dear Scott has trigger Ellis.

      Testing: Treat of the Union.

    199. Ruby says:

      Oops

      Testing: Treaty of the Union

    200. Dorothy Devine says:

      I have to admit to laughing heartily at STV ‘News” attempt to bolster the ‘street party image of Scotland’

      Have a scone !

    201. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis thinks that people shouldn’t have taken him up on the offer of confirming who/what he is…and absolutely rages that he can’t do the same for me and others who choose not to publish our whole lives online.

      Andy Ellis thinks the Union with England Act 1707 is irrelevant.

      Also, Andy Ellis claims to want Scots law to be fully independent.

    202. John Main says:

      @CrapMan 1:05

      Thanks!

      I sometimes doubt if my factual posts are hitting home.

      Then somebody like you posts something like your one and I realise that it is still true: nobody can ever even land a glancing blow on the truth.

      I shall keep up the good work.

      You continue your confabs with your wall.

    203. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Interesting to see the ‘new’ Nicola swanning into St. Paul’s like a pure gemmy. Just a pity she has to have that pillock Peter beside her.

      She’s looking more like an actual French Fancy than you would think possible for someone who’s not doing it intentionally.

      (Remember – the original and best portrayal of our dodgy FM is the clunky crayon drawing with the dark eyes and orange hair.)

    204. John Main says:

      Testing

      Teat of Onion

      Not sure if that is a real thing, but maybes somebody could share a story …

    205. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just realised that a site some of us referred to in the early months of ‘the bug’ called Swiss Propaganda Research has changed its name to Swiss Policy Research.

      Anyway, the page linked to below has a handy 20-point factsheet about the bug, with loads of links and further reading.

      The insurance industry in the US, as well as here, is starting to wake up to the fact that excess mortality has gone through the proverbial e.g. amongst men of ‘working age’, (I imagine that would be 18-65ish?) it’s up by 40% over the past year and is set to go much higher. The most recent Pfizer data dump shows (‘allegedly’ – I haven’t been able to double-source) that 82% of pregnant women given the jab then lost their children.

      Oh, and btw, since I last asked, which was probably about three months ago, has anyone else read Robert F. Kennedy’s book about Fauci/Bill Gates etc?

      https://swprs.org/covid19-facts/

    206. sarah says:

      @ Dan at 5.28: I really enjoyed that Jubilee footage! Good thing you posted it as I shan’t be seeing any more of the coverage – apart from where Johnson gets booed.

    207. Ruby says:

      Ottomanboi says:

      I’m the same generation and I find such action juvenile, petulant and devoid of rationality as to purpose.
      Not impressed by many people of my generation, smug in their parent sub’d bubbles of ignorance.

      I’m not impressed with a lot of people of my generation. Older does not mean wiser. These young people have the excuse of being young & idealistic. These young people are not in a position of power the folk who really worry me are the highly educated middle aged folk who’s thinking is highly suspect.

    208. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      3 June, 2022 at 5:43 pm

      Education seems to be high on the list of things which might help…

      Would that include being taught ‘women have penises?’
      It could be argued that education could be more of a hindrance than a help.

    209. Andy Ellis says:

      What was claimed:
      A study on the effects of Covid vaccines during pregnancy shows 82% of respondents miscarried, contrary to what its authors claimed.

      Our Verdict:
      This claim is misleading and based on an incorrect calculation. The study it is based on found the rates of miscarriage were no different to those before Covid-19, although it concedes that further research is needed.

      An article by the website Daily Expose, shared on Facebook and Instagram, claims the US Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) grossly underreported miscarriage figures found in a study on Covid-19 vaccine safety during pregnancy.

      However, this is misleading, as it ignores much of the relevant data and therefore totally contradicts the study’s conclusions.

      The study examined the records of 827 respondents who had been given a Covid-19 vaccine and had a completed pregnancy, which means the pregnancy had ended in a live birth, spontaneous or induced abortion, stillbirth or ectopic pregnancy.

      It found that 13.9% of those respondents reported a pregnancy loss, of which 12.6% were miscarriages.

      The study found these rates were within a normal range, and that the preliminary findings did not show “obvious safety signals” among respondents who received mRNA Covid-19 vaccines.

      However, the Daily Expose claimed the 12.6% miscarriage figure was incorrect because the majority of respondents were vaccinated during the third trimester, when it is “impossible to suffer a miscarriage”.

      The article claims the true miscarriage rate was 82%. This was calculated by excluding all 700 participants who had live births who were vaccinated in their third trimester. This left 127 people who received the vaccine in the first two trimesters, 104 of whom (82%) had miscarriages.

      This argument is incredibly misleading.

      Dividing the number of people who had miscarriages by the number who had completed pregnancies and were vaccinated in the first or second trimester does not give the miscarriage rate in the first and second trimester.

      Gynaecologist Dr Jen Gunter wrote in a newsletter: “Of course when you remove those 700 pregnancies the miscarriage rate looks artificially high, because the only way a person got into the data set…was if the pregnancy had ended and they had been vaccinated.”

      To calculate the actual miscarriage rate for those vaccinated in the first and second trimesters, you’d need to divide the number of miscarriages by the total number of completed pregnancies of those who were vaccinated before 26 weeks. But we don’t have that total yet because most of those people are still pregnant.

      As was noted in the study, the majority of participants from the v-safe registry who were vaccinated in their first and second trimesters had not given birth or otherwise by the time of the study’s publication. Having complete data from more of this cohort would have given the study greater balance and a better picture of outcomes across all pregnancies.

      The claim that it’s “impossible” to have a miscarriage in the third trimester is only correct in a sense. A miscarriage is commonly defined as the loss of a pregnancy before 24 weeks of gestation (just before the end of the second trimester). Losing a pregnancy in the third trimester is possible, but is known as stillbirth (one was recorded in the study).

      It is worth noting the relatively high incidence of miscarriage in pregnancy across all groups, with as many as 250,000 people in the UK every year sadly losing their pregnancy, accounting for one in five pregnancies.

      While the researchers said the data did not indicate “obvious safety signals” they concede “more longitudinal follow-up, including follow-up of large numbers of women vaccinated earlier in pregnancy, is necessary”.

      The study also looked at some benefits of vaccination, citing new evidence that shows vaccination in the third trimester leads to the transfer of Covid antibodies from mother to foetus during pregnancy, suggesting vaccines can help protect newborns too.

      The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has previously stated there is no evidence to suggest the number of miscarriages reported in the UK following vaccination falls outside the normal range for miscarriages in general.

      Advice from the NHS says the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines have been “widely used during pregnancy in other countries and no safety concerns have been identified.” Evidence reviewed by the MHRA “has raised no specific concerns for safety in pregnancy”.

      We have checked multiple misleading claims about the relationship between vaccines and pregnancy, including that “vaccine shedding” can cause miscarriage and that the vaccines have caused 172 miscarriages since January.

      https://fullfact.org/health/vaccination-miscarriage-CDC-study-inaccurate/

    210. Dan says:

      @ sarah

      I’ve been dealing with a parasitic plague (sawfly larvae on my gooseberry bush) in my own veg garden, so no time spare to watch more than a couple of mins celebrating a parasitic plague on my entire nation.
      How come we are forever being told and taxed into living a more ecologically sound existence to save the planet for future generations, yet flying a load of helicopters, display jets, and old WW2 planes for an event is deemed ok.
      FFS whit’s wrang wi jist putting a few candles on a cake…

    211. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Interesting to see Andy Ellisplaining The Covid by copying/pasting a whole load of stuff from Fullfact.org.

      ‘Fullfact’ is funded largely by Google, George Soros, and was founded by a Tory.

      Here’s a revelatory article from the notoriously left-wing Daily Mail:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7706715/How-Google-George-Soros-eBays-founder-fund-Fact-group.html

    212. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 8.02 pm

      So…wait…you think because fringe nutters want to push their woo-woo narratives (whether “TWAW!”, “climate change isn’t real”, “Covid-19 is a hoax”, “vaccines are a plot”, “Scotland is a colony”, “endlessly navel gazing and bloviating about the Treaty of Onion (sic) will lead to independence”) we should give up on education?

      Riiiiiight….

      Still your attitude to the dangers of education explains a whole lot.

    213. Andy Ellis says:

      I’m not sure quoting the Daily Heil is the slam dunk riposte some people think.

      Still, fly wi’ the craws an a’ that….?

      We know the sort of folk who don’t trust experts don’t we, and we’ve seen where it ends in the US Capitol on 06/01/21.

      Will Ian B be parading around Holyrood in a see you jimmy headdress and tartan chaps I wonder? 🙂

    214. Saffron Robe says:

      I see Nicola Sturgeon has said she has “deep respect” for the English monarch. Just a pity that she doesn’t hold the same deep respect for Scots law, our constitutional rights or our ancestors.

    215. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 8:23

      Small correction, if I may.

      It’s the “teat” of onion.

      Kinda a follow on from Ruby’s “treat of union”.

      I know she doesn’t like me reading her posts, but don’t worry, she never reads mine, so it’s cool, she won’t ever know.

      Meantime, if anybody wants to get serious, there’s a good article on the current Russian president on Unherd: “[redacted]’s War Is Just Beginning”.

      It outlines how the shape of the “New World Order” in Europe is going to be subject to his whims. I think that the effects of this on Scottish Indy have yet to be understood. Certainly, the inspiration for thousands of posts over the next year while we eagerly await IndyRef2 is all there.

      Interesting times.

    216. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Saffron Robe –

      Liz clearly doesn’t return the compliment, if Nicola truly is our representative. She broke her own rules in order to be ‘overheard’ when leaving that church in Balmoral or wherever it was.

      But whatcha gonna do? They never apologise, never explain – that’s mibbe where Nicola got the idea!

      🙂

    217. Dan says:

      A braw read for those wanting tae tak a break fae being exposed tae aw that jooblee shite emitting from yer tellies.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/a-revolutionary-act/

    218. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      3 June, 2022 at 8:23 pm

      @Tourette’s Ruby 8.02 pm

      So…wait…you think because fringe nutters want to push their woo-woo narratives (whether “TWAW!”, “climate change isn’t real”, “Covid-19 is a hoax”, “vaccines are a plot”, “Scotland is a colony”, “endlessly navel gazing and bloviating about the Treaty of Onion (sic) will lead to independence”) we should give up on education?

      Riiiiiight….

      Still your attitude to the dangers of education explains a whole lot.

      Here’s the thing Ellis. All these ‘fringe nutters’ you are referring to are highly educated.

    219. Saffron Robe says:

      As regards Scotland’s natural resources. The main economic function of colonialism is to extract (steal) the wealth of the colonised nation for the sole benefit of the coloniser. Anything that is given in return is given in the form of handouts to further enslave and impoverish the indigenous population. Those who collaborate with the coloniser and meet with their approval are rewarded with the coloniser’s “largess”, increasing inequality and division in the colonised nation. Colonisation is as much psychological as it is economic, because the colonised are forced to become dependent on the coloniser, in the same way that a victim of abuse becomes dependent on their abuser for any relief from that abuse.

      I remember visiting a holy lake in India which had been reduced to little more than a paddling pool. I asked my friend what had happened and he explained that the British had taken the water for use on the railways. And so it is with the colonising power, they have no respect for those things which the indigenous population holds sacred and dear, and their only intent is to desecrate, exploit and monetarise those things for their own gain.

      Scotland, as distinct from nearly all other colonised nations, was never conquered, and although we have been effectively colonised through the sophistry, guile and deception of the Treaty of Union, we are in the privileged position (thanks to our ancestors) of being able to regain our independence through peaceful and legal means. And it is for this reason that Scottish independence is more a revolution of the mind than it is a physical revolution. As it was said of India during their struggle for freedom from the British, “India shall rise again not through the shedding of blood, but by the elevation of the spirit”, so the same is true for Scotland. And, of course, we have all the resources we need to be independent.

    220. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      3 June, 2022 at 8:54 pm

      A braw read for those wanting tae tak a break fae being exposed tae aw that jooblee shite emitting from yer tellies.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/a-revolutionary-act/

      Thanks for that Dan. Very interesting read. I was particularly interest in what he said about the Depp-Herd verdict.

      “The overwhelming majority of ordinary people reject the notion that you should decide the truth of events based on the gender of those involved.”

      Basically the majority of people do not believe that women can do no wrong!

    221. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan (8.54) –

      Thanks for the link. Good stuff from Craig.

      😉

    222. sarah says:

      @ Dan: Gooseberry sawfly, tell me aboot it. They killed all my bushes so I ordered new ones and planted them this Spring well away from the old site, in virgin soil – today I saw a leaf completely shredded…

      Also today the bloody stag was back in the vegetable garden – ignored the tatties and kale but browsed the raspberry canes and trampled through my shallots.

      So I won’t be getting to Manniefest tomorrow as I have to do all the gardening that I had planned to do today.

    223. Scott says:

      Ellis has been greetin like a spoiled brat to Rev Stu on GETTR about his comments going into moderation.

      “Jeez…man..you need to sort out the modding BTL @ WoS: either that or just put it out of its misery already! The lunatics really have taken over the asylum now, and it’s getting tiresome trying to second guess why some comments appear and others – apparently randomly – just don’t.”

      https://gettr.com/comment/c13iv05dff1

      Cry harder Andy, you might get a reply.

    224. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Scott –

      Mibbes, if he asks nicely, Ruby will give him the up-to-date list of ‘banned’ words?

    225. Scott says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 June, 2022 at 10:43 pm

      @Scott –

      Mibbes, if he asks nicely,

      I don’t think he knows how to do that, brurr.

    226. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 June, 2022 at 10:43 pm

      @Scott –

      Mibbes, if he asks nicely, Ruby will give him the up-to-date list of ‘banned’ words?

      Happy to help.

      Moon-howler
      Tour-ettes
      P_ork
      Sche_mie
      Frin_ge Nu_tter
      Sk_id M_ark

      =====

      UK_raine
      Ru_ssia
      Put_ins Poo_dle

      Were banned recently because I’m guessing the Rev Stu had had enough of Ellis’s non stop posts about Pu_tins Poo_dles.

      Time for Ellis to apologise to The Rev & rest of us for his selfish behaviour.

      I predict unless he wisens up the words Andy & Ellis will trigger moderation and he will have no option but to post on his own site with only two readers. ie Chas & Main.

      Too much education turns you into pork.

    227. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ruby –

      ‘Too much education turns you into pork.’

      Aye! That’s why he’s up for the chop!

      🙂

    228. Ruby says:

      Another interesting thing in Craig’s recent blog was the observation that the Greens are never off the telly but the only person to appear in the media from the SNP is ‘The Virgin Nicola’.

    229. Dan says:

      @ sarah

      I had to get the deer causing havoc in my veg garden shot. That bastardin thing caused more damage to my veg / fruit garden than twa of the local 80 year old gardeners in the village had ever seen in their entire lives of dealing with garden pests.
      It’s possible the mild winters aren’t enough to kill off and keep the pupating larvae numbers down. If you’re on the milder west coast that may also be a factor.
      I had minus 18C a couple of years back and it still didn’t stop an infestation of the larvae stripping the bush bare in the following spring in a matter of a couple of days. The bush looked better than ever a month ago but now looks like scraggly mess, though I hope hours of hunting and squishing green caterpillars may be enough to at least save some of the fruit crop.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawfly

      The female uses her ovipositor to drill into plant material (or, in the case of Orussoidea, other insects) and then lays eggs in groups called rafts or pods. After hatching, larvae feed on plants, often in groups. As they approach adulthood, the larvae seek a protected spot to pupate, typically in bark or the soil.

      I also couldn’t help but note males are almost surplus to requirements in the sawfly world at this stage in their evolution…
      Parthenogenetic females, which do not need to mate to produce fertilised eggs, are common in the suborder, though many species have males.
      I envisage a load of redundant bloke flies jist sitting in the pub quaffing pints and watching jooblee shite to pass the time away, well until some lass fly needs her car wheel changed…

    230. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      3 June, 2022 at 11:09 pm

      @Ruby –

      ‘Too much education turns you into pork.’

      Aye! That’s why he’s up for the chop!

      🙂
      LOL
      Good one!

      Aye! With cutlet frills & a side helping of apple sauce!

    231. robbo says:

      It never matters to Mr Ellis , Mr Main , Mr Chas and I believe now Mr anti auld firm man that the treaty of union has no bearing at all in the UK any more- I mean anymore, really?.

      Here’s a relatively recent one this century that shows what that bigoted piece of shit was all about in the first place from the get go. The 220, 000 piece of gold were just a sham.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013#Marriage_to_Roman_Catholics

      Explain Ellis why the act of union has no bearing even today? Cause I can’t for the life of me understand even one little bit why this isn’t the most bigoted piece of shite I’ve ever seen apart from act two in the treaty.

      Gays and Transfolk have it easy in this day and age- but not you Roman Catholics- aw naw ya pape bastards, you’s need tae suffer!

      Get it fecking roon yi ya bams.

    232. Ruby says:

      Six women have been arrested following a climate protest outside a UK Government’s offices in Edinburgh.

      Six women? I wonder if everyone who is arrested from now on will be women?

    233. Scott says:

      The bird app really is something else. #PlasticSturgeon is trending.

    234. Breeks says:

      It might come as a surprise to people, but while a passionate Independentist, and yes, ok a Republican, I’m much less triggered by a Monarch.

      The thing is, I detest this monarchy and all it’s pomp and parasites, and the obscenity of wealth and privilege they exude. But that is “this” monarchy. It isn’t “our” monarchy.

      But how do you think Auld Scotland felt about King Robert the Bruce delivering Scotland a decisive victory at Bannockburn? I expect he was revered and adored throughout Scotland. Scotland’s monarch wasn’t typically unpopular amongst the people… as far as I know.

      The thing is, if it’s possible to have a monarchy that’s reviled, but at the same time have it possible for that same position of monarchy to be revered and adored, maybe the problem isn’t the position of monarch, but the inappropriateness and poor quality of the incumbent regime.

      Deny the obscenity of extreme wealth and nauseating privilege while these parasitic Royals lead the charge in abusing Scotland, ask yourself whether it might be possible for Scotland to have a “different” Royal regime which it didn’t detest, but actually loved very dearly.

      Isn’t it possible that Scotland’s affection for a monarch, (which don’t forget was never the same as other monarchies), might be just another symptom of something Scottish being bastardised into something “British” and then expected of us that we all take it to our hearts? Isn’t that the same social engineering you see with Christianity embedding itself through popular pagan traditions? It’s a takeover.

      Change the narrative. Purge your mind. Ditch the whole obscene Union and Union Jackery, and once the resentment for this British concept of monarchy forced onto us is junked completely, ask yourself whether an Independent Scotland “might” be enriched or impoverished by having a monarch. Is it a plus, or a minus?

      Might Scotland choose to keep the centuries old tradition of a Scottish Crown, but have it be precisely that… a Scottish monarchy which typified the very best of what Scotland aspired to be? Should the story of Scotland’s kings and queens be at a permanent end?

      The current monarchy is a bloated and obnoxious assembly of over privileged brats and sycophants shoved down our throats by an equally nauseating British Press, and yes, I’d ditch all of that in a heart beat.

      But for a parallel, take the barren desert of a “Scottish” grouse moor and all the exceptionalism, arrogant butchery and slaughter for “fun” that goes with it, and do away with it, all of it, remove every last vestige of a “hunting” estate, and in it’s place, reinstate the majesty of the Great Caledonian Pine Forest stuffed full of natures critters and natural order. A full spectrum of apex predators, true wilderness, flowers, meadows, butterflies, eagles in the skies and huge salmon in the rivers.. a Scottish ecosystem the way nature intended. Don’t you see the same thing?

      In terms of Scotland’s monarchy and Scotland’s wild habitat, it is the same. The one we have is a bleak,, denuded and dismal version of what might be possible, something which could be restored back to the fine and beautiful thing that was taken from all of us and exploited by an alien “elite”.

      When we take back our country, we can repair and restore whatever we want, or develop other bits the way that suits us, the Scottish people, not the British parasite sucking the life out our nation.

      Take our Independence back, then take a few deep breaths before we do anything hasty. Maybe a monarchy is an anachronism, but let’s be sure and take time to assess it.

      ….Apart from the tree hugging / eagle thing. That gets started right away.

    235. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dan ,Sarah , I had a lovely healthy gooseberry plant one day and the next it was stripped – it’s a sad looking thing now . Thanks for telling me about the sawfly now I know next year I will try to protect it.

      Breeks , as ever thank you.

    236. Robert Hughes says:

      Breeks @ 6.30

      ” ….. reinstate the majesty of the Great Caledonian Pine Forest stuffed full of natures critters and natural order. A full spectrum of apex predators, true wilderness, flowers, meadows, butterflies, eagles in the skies and huge salmon in the rivers.. a Scottish ecosystem the way nature intended. Don’t you see the same thing? ”

      Yes ! I for one do . To quote lifelong favourite V Morrison ….

      ” Beautiful vision
      Stay with me all of the time
      Beautiful vision
      Stay ever on my mind with your beautiful vision ”

      ( the * fact * that Ol’ Van is a legendary grouch / curmudgeon is just one of those artistic paradoxes ) .

      It’s to our detriment that the aspiration to Independence is almost exclusively framed in – for want of a better description – capital ” m ” Materialistic terms eg how we would be * better off * financially : sure , reference is made to abstract concepts like Freedom , Justice , Equality etc , but the arguments used tend to centre around Economics . These things are important , of course , but are they the MOST important aspects that could ignite and stimulate our imaginations of what an Independent Scotland could be ?

      I’m not suggesting ( and neither are you , I’m sure ) the return to some mythic Edenic state ( which has never existed , probably ) ; hard to imagine many * Noble Savages * existing in prelapsarian innocence the the urban wildernesses of Castlemilk , Easterhouse , Darnley for example .

      As for the reestablishment of a Scottish Monarchy , hmmm , not sure about that one B . I think the age of monarchic power/privilege should be slung in History’s cowp . If there was the remote chance of arriving at something like the ( no doubt also mythic ) idea of a Philosopher King/Queen dispensing sagacious guidance to the people , it would maybe something worth considering ; what’s the chance of that ?

      In terms of Leadership , I’ve never found a better ideal than that espoused by ma man Lao Tzu ….

      ” A leader is best when people barely know he exists. Not so good when people obey and acclaim him. Worse when they despise him. But of a good leader who talks little when his work is done his aim fulfilled they will say: ‘We did it ourselves.”

      The very antithesis of the vanity projects masquerading as * leaders * that are causing havoc globally : Scotland suffering terribly from the same affliction .

      Superb post compadre . Would that there were more with similar vision informing our struggle .

    237. George Ferguson says:

      That is a complication I wasn’t expecting. On the legal advice to the UK Government and Scotland Office for a second referendum. UK Gov states under the FOI restricted time frame it would be prohibitively expensive too address this question. There is no principled objection to addressing the question just that FOI is not the vehicle. Reported in the Scotsman this morning. Nothing has changed for the ICO ruling of the Scot Gov. Response due by June 10th.

    238. Ottomanboi says:

      BREEKS
      Went to an exhibition in London few years ago. On the point of leaving in walked the Queen of Denmark. No fuss beyond low key greetings from staff.
      It all seemed natural. I suspect that many presidents in a similar situation would be swamped by security flunkeys.
      A Scots republic is, nevertheless, a more desirable option. No need for a president either.
      What do heads of state actually do except occasionally meet and greet?

    239. Andy Ellis says:

      @robbo 11.23 pm

      I doubt the ToU comes up much on the doorsteps at canvassing time. Ordinary folk have more pressing things on their minds than the inequities of the Law of Succession. Most are happy to accept the principle that the Scots people are sovereign, but they neither know nor care about the minutiae of 300 year old treaties. When we win our independence, it will be as a result of having convinced the majority that the risks and benefits of independence are preferable to the risks and benefits of staying in the union: it really is that simple.

      Navel gazing about the minutiae of the Treaties or dancing on the head of constitutional pins obviously gives some of the sad inadequates in here a hard on, but it leaves ordinary people cold.

    240. PacMan says:

      Doesn’t allow me to post videos YouTube. This one is funny.

      On Youtube search “Prince Andrew Is A Sweaty Nonce FOR JUBILEE No. 2”

    241. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      4 June, 2022 at 9:23 am

      I doubt the ToU comes up much on the doorsteps at canvassing time.

      Most are happy to accept the principle that the Scots people are sovereign, but they neither know nor care about the minutiae of 300 year old treaties.

      —-

      They care about Acts of Parliament and whether the Govt. abides by the terms.

      Union with England Act 1707 & Claim of right Act 1689 are eminently relevant to Scotland’s constitution, for obvious reasons.

      [Scotland’s parliament passed UwEA1707 before England’s ‘Union with Scotland Act 1706’, so it can be argued that Scotland dictated the terms of the union to England. The t&cs have been broken repeatedly.]

      Read up on all three ‘Acts’, for when you go canvassing.

    242. Mark Boyle says:

      robbo says:
      3 June, 2022 at 11:23 pm

      It never matters to Mr Ellis , Mr Main , Mr Chas and I believe now Mr anti auld firm man that the treaty of union has no bearing at all in the UK any more- I mean anymore, really?.

      Here’s a relatively recent one this century that shows what that bigoted piece of shit was all about in the first place from the get go. The 220, 000 piece of gold were just a sham.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Crown_Act_2013#Marriage_to_Roman_Catholics

      Explain Ellis why the act of union has no bearing even today? Cause I can’t for the life of me understand even one little bit why this isn’t the most bigoted piece of shite I’ve ever seen apart from act two in the treaty.

      Gays and Transfolk have it easy in this day and age- but not you Roman Catholics- aw naw ya pape bastards, you’s need tae suffer!

      Get it fecking roon yi ya bams.

      Aw diddums! Did nasty man say nasty things about your precious Old Firm? They’re not called Scotland’s Shame for nothing – simply a way of dividing and conquering the lower orders into being either part of pretend righteous holy crusade for justice and um er stuff on one hand, the master race on the other.

      What you have said is a steam pile of irrelevance for the simple reason Catholics were already banned from the separate English and Scottish thrones BEFORE the Treaty Of Union (1588 and 1560 respectively) – due to England’s lack of an heir they dumbly allowed those dysfunctional roasters the Stuarts to take the throne, which was when their probs really started as they were forced to bend their own rules come Charles II, culminating a wee matter of a certain spat later between James and his daughter Mary along with his son-in-law William circa 1688-90.

      Would have thought an Old Firm thicko would have remembered THOSE dates, they seem to go on about little else. Mind you, they’ve never been the brightest bulbs in the box, so one must make allowances. People whose backsides haven’t been near a pew in a month of Sundays droning on about religious feuds – up there with Mars Bar Pakora in everything cringeworthy about up here.

      Your average semi-intelligent person trying to make ends meet with rising food and fuel costs cares not a flying fk who the Royal Family can or cannot marry, not least of all because it would only be another rich bastard from another shower of rich bastards – only Old Firm thickos obsess over such trivia as they do anything else that means they don’t have to pay attention to the real world rather than their obsessions with sashs, tottie famines and the whole J K Rowling style make believe world of the terminally brain dead.

    243. Mark Boyle says:

      PacMan says: 4 June, 2022 at 9:37 am

      Doesn’t allow me to post videos YouTube. This one is funny.

      On Youtube search “Prince Andrew Is A Sweaty Nonce FOR JUBILEE No. 2”

      Really at the cutting edge of the zeitgeist, aren’t you? This has been known about for a month before it came out. BTW Elvis is dead in case you missed that one.

      Kunt and The Gang (the support act of the Macc Lads) don’t appear to do irony much, having a record out calling Randy Andy a kiddy fiddler when their Christmas record about Boris Johnson six months back put money into the pocket of Gary Glitter as it was just “Rock’n’Roll” with different words.

    244. Breeks says:


      Scott says:
      4 June, 2022 at 9:48 am

      Read up on all three ‘Acts’, for when you go canvassing.

      Agreed.

      And broadening out a bit, wherever people are less than impressed by the relevance of 300 year old legislation, and will ONLY recognise modern democracy as sacred, (even though that modern democracy is deeply, deeply compromised), much of Scotland’s Constitutional strength will come from public awareness, and a sovereign people knowing they are sovereign.

      Sovereignty is the genie we want out the bottle.

      If YES canvassers on the doorstep in 2014 were stumped by unanswerable questions about currency and the Spanish veto, then do unto others… once we have sown the seeds with Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, “that” is question which every Unionist and Better Together canvasser will have to address. The Scottish people are sovereign… Aye they are.

      …. Best of all, they actually ARE sovereign, and sovereign from cradle to grave.

    245. John Main says:

      @Breeks 6:30 am

      Top post.

    246. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 9:23

      The “What Is To Be Done” of Scots Indy summarised in one post.

      Maybes you should paste a moustache and goatee on your icon.

    247. Breeks says:

      The other thing to understand is that while Sovereignty could conceivably bring the Union to and end on a Constitutional technicality in law, we should not underestimate the degree to which the mere existence of that argument alone, “just” having the option, could dramatically steer the political arguments and public narrative.

      It injects potency into the Independence debate which was altogether absent in 2014, and potency which 300 years of indoctrination has tried to water down. That change could prove pivotal if it registers with Scotland’s people and influences the course of the democratic debate.

      Once widely known that Scotland has a kill switch for the Union, a “Get out of Jail Free” card if you prefer softer language, suddenly Scotland is in charge of a Scottish debate, and voting for something progressive we should do, not trembling at the knees and fretting about something we shouldn’t.

      Scotland’s Constitutional kill switch could be the proverbial nuclear option, – at it’s most powerful when the threat is fully understood, but NOT used.

    248. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      4 June, 2022 at 10:32 am

      @Andy Ellis 9:23

      The “What Is To Be Done” of Scots Indy summarised in one post.

      Not really, or at all.

      All he does is talk about what he doesn’t want done, while claiming to speak for the majority that he’s never even spoken to.

      You should nip round and give him a wee cuddle, he really needs to feel loved for a change. Good luck.

    249. John Main says:

      @Otto 8:54

      Kings, Caesars, Presidents-for-Life, Tsars, and all of their cis-female equivalents.

      They all seem to have been the defaults for the majority of history.

      Of course, if you believe you stand at the apex of human morality and intelligence, you will sneer at all of the deluded, backward, ignorant degenerates of the previous generations that collectively evolved into your perfection.

      But if you believe you are no different, and no better than those who went before, only with a moby, CH (but for how much longer?), and Amazon, you might take time to consider just what it is about us humans that we generally seem to end up with something that looks very much like royalty of one form or another.

      Question 5 of Tony Benn applies: How do we get rid of you? If the answer is, you can’t, then that looks like monarchy by stealth to me. Now, total the populations of all of the countries of the world where that is the answer to see just how many of us “enjoy” an effective monarchy.

      Finally, ask yourself, in which direction is the trend? Towards more democratic freedom? Or towards less?

    250. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      4 June, 2022 at 11:01 am

      @Otto 8:54

      Kings, Caesars, Presidents-for-Life, Tsars, and all of their cis-female equivalents.

      Kings & Queens;
      Emperors & Empresses;
      Presidents-for-Life;
      Tsars & Tsarinas;
      Sultans and Sultana;
      etc.

    251. Breeks says:

      Sorry, hitting rabbit mode…

      Just say Scotland’s People’s Assembly did set itself up as Constitutional champion for Scottish “red” Sovereignty, winning the argument and persuading foreign governments of the Constitutional inevitability of Scottish Independence. Even without the definitive test case or Constitutional face-off, we could still see Scotland securing Legal Personality, and have multiple International Recognitions primed and ready to roll, just waiting for the nod.

    252. sarah says:

      @ Dan and Dorothy: I’m sure there is a simile for Scotland being stripped bare and the habits and lifecycle of the gooseberry sawfly!

      However I wonder if putting an impermeable mulch around the bush might stop the larvae crawling up the bush? Once there of course one has to do what Dan says and squash the caterpillars.

      Blasted deer was back again last night, trampling more shallots.

      @ Breeks: good thinking, as usual. I think we do need a non-political head of state to represent all of us, not just a party.

    253. John Main says:

      @Breeks 10:53

      So what you are saying, is that as soon as the No voting Scots realise they are sovereign, they will (or some of them will) change their votes to Yes, and thus deliver a majority for Indy.

      Going to have to hold you to formal examination standards, Breeks. Show your working.

      Seems to me that a majority of Sovereign Scots could still decide to vote No, just like the majority of non-sovereign Scots are doing right now.

      Historic technicalities might not change their real-time, current circumstances or opinions.

      Hell, they may actually think like me. Bad people, long since deid, long ago did bad things to not so bad people, also long since deid. To which I say, big fucking deal. Bad things happening right here and now, to very much alive and suffering people. Let’s focus on sorting that out.

    254. PacMan says:

      Now that Andy is on of the scene, Mark and John can now have a toothsome threesome.

      HI GUYS

      Only joking.

      Keep up the good work, for Queen and country and all that 🙂

    255. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes & Breeks

      You both write the most marvelous thought provoking posts. Thank you.

      I’ll wait until the not so lovely jubilee dies down to give the give the idea of a Scottish monarchy some thought.

      The only advantage I can think of at the moment of having a monarchy is they may serve as a tourist attraction. Although I would draw the line at having them wear ‘See You Jimmy’ hats in place of £billion jeweled headgear.

      Further research required into suitable headgear for Scottish monarch.

      1. Find out the type of headgear referred to in
      ‘For you’ve no seen the last of my bonnets and me’

      2. Find out what the song ‘Bonnie Dundee’ is all about.

      Re leader/teacher: The perfect one would be someone who taught you to lead yourself.
      I think that is possibly what Buddhism tries to do. I might be totally wrong but I do like that idea although the thought of having to think for yourself & be 100% responsible for you own actions is pretty scary.

    256. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 10.54 am

      “All he does is talk about what he doesn’t want done, while claiming to speak for the majority that he’s never even spoken to.”

      Not really, or at all.

      I talk about a range of topics, unlike some of the monomaniacs in here. If you don’t think my views represent those of the majority, feel free to present your evidence. We’ll wait. There’s zero evidence ordinary voters are interested in ToU navel gazing, or that they support “novel” routes to indy that don’t involve referendums or plebiscitary elections.

      No point you and others who steadfastly believe in constitutional fairies repeating over and over that they are real. Show us the proof. Otherwise people might think you’re just a fantasist as well as a creepy stalker.

    257. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main 10.32

      Iskra this place ain’t!

      I think the “anti-constitutionalists” in the independecne movement probably have more in common with old Vladmir Ilyich…? He wrote in “What is to be done?”:

      “Class political consciousness can be brought to the workers only from without; that is, only from outside the economic struggle, from outside the sphere of relations between workers and employers. The sphere from which alone it is possible to obtain this knowledge is the sphere of relationships (of all classes and strata) to the state and the government, the sphere of the interrelations between all classes.”

      Seems to me what they’re proposing is bringing about independence consciousness to the masses from without too. Ah hae ma doots that the proto-bolshevism of the proponents of “cunning plans for indy” styling themselves as the vanguard party of the lumpen proletariat will sell well. 🙂

    258. Robert Hughes says:

      ” I think that is possibly what Buddhism tries to do. I might be totally wrong but I do like that idea although the thought of having to think for yourself & be 100% responsible for you own actions is pretty scary.”

      Yr not wrong Ruby . Buddha himself was not a Buddhist ! Zen takes that idea even further – encapsulated in the ( in ) famous saying

      ” If you meet Buddha on the road , kill him ” ie if you’re still thinking someone else can provide your salvation you’re missing the point .

      Thanks for your comment Ruby * Baby * 🙂

    259. Dan says:

      If genuine “pro-indy” commenters truly wanted to build a pro-indy majority then they will need to tolerate the different views and motivating reasons that come with those that will make the conversion from No to Yes.
      We are all different individuals from all walks of life, and no doubt with our own unique take on matters. Therefore shutting down or stifling debate on certain lines of potential pro-indy stimuli just because you personally don’t think it’s relevant is not conducive to building that majority.

    260. PacMan says:

      O/T

      I have gone off films for a while due a number of reasons but being prompted by a recent conversation with a work colleague, I had decided to sit down and catch up with some of the classic movies I had loved.

      A criticism about modern TV and movies is from some quarters is that it is ‘too woke’. Watching these old movies in perspective of these comments is IMHO, they are right and they are wrong.

      Back in the day, guys like Sergio Leone and Sam Peckinpah were given the freedom to fulfil their artistic goal regardless of their subject matter which were no deemed as art.

      Nowadays, movies and TV are directed not by artists but by committee and judged by their potential commercial success which now today is how it will perform with diverse audiences.

      I know it is duh, that is obvious but you get caught up in how much garbage is being produced today that you can relate to the current arguments being pushed around.

      It isn’t a case of go woke go broke, it’s a case of produce generic , boring rubbish and go broke.

    261. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      4 June, 2022 at 12:00 pm

      @Scott 10.54 am

      “All he does is talk about what he doesn’t want done, while claiming to speak for the majority that he’s never even spoken to.”

      I talk about a range of topics, unlike some of the monomaniacs in here. If you don’t think my views represent those of the majority, feel free to present your evidence.

      No point you and others who steadfastly believe in constitutional fairies repeating over and over that they are real. Show us the proof.

      Yeah, we’ve been asking for the evidence that you speak for the majority since forever…where is it?

      (and you only talk about yourself, and those you idolise, in relation to all topics, because you are a malignant narcissist who lives vicariously)

      Read the Union with England Act 1707 & Claim of Right Act 1689 if you want to understand Scotland’s constitution…because you obviously don’t, or are just pretending not to.

      It’s you that’s away with the faeries.

    262. George Ferguson says:

      @Dan 12:20pm
      And to that end Nicola Sturgeon declaring it was SNP party policy for the Queen and her successors to remain Head of State for an Independent Scotland. Credit where credit is due, that was a very smart move. Reinforced by her statement it was also her personal view. It could all come down to a few thousand votes.

    263. PacMan says:

      @Dan 12:20pm

      Nobody likes getting talked down to but ultimately nobody likes a loser, no matter how nice they are.

      It’s all about hearts and minds, listening to people but ultimately being able to deliver on these needs, desires and hopes that people want.

      When listening to the SNP and their vision of independence on the very occasional moments they actually talk about it, it is bland, uninspiring and negative. All they talk about is how bad the Tories are and the vague aspiration that life under independence would be so much better without saying how it would better other than it won’t involve the Tories.

      For me, the answer is yes, the ability to listen and emphasise with people is required but you need to have credible answers to their fears and insecurities about independence.

      That isn’t going to happen with the SNP in charge.

    264. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      4 June, 2022 at 8:54 am

      What do heads of state actually do except occasionally meet and greet?

      Very good question, treading on eggshells to answer it because I’m not a monarchist, I’m just saying not all monarchies are the same.

      What good comes from the monarchy… well, remember when Notre Dame Cathedral went on fire? When so many the priceless antiquities were reduced to ash, who did the French turn to, to find the craftspeople with skills and expertise to restore it, and teach new craftspeople the old ways? Ye Olde Worlde mad-as-a-box-of-frogs Yingerland, that’s who. There’s an argument that only a hardcore elitism provides the essential luxury which allows these trades to survive.

      I watched a program on TV about whatshisname,… Drew Somebody, and he had a furniture restorer who had to replace some 17th Century Embroidery in a chair he was restoring. What seemed impossible was done thanks to some Royal School of Embroidery which pretty much exists to keep all Royal and Military embroidered paraphernalia in good order. The question is would that school of needlework exist in a commercial world without the exacting demands of royal “snobbery”?

      That’s just embroidery, but there’s a similar argument for carpentry, stonemasonry, stained glass, lead workers, weavers, cobblers, parchment makers… etc.

      Now is any of that essential? Arguably no, but in terms of centuries old knowledge and skill, it is irreplaceable. And in 200 years, when Tony Robinson’s great great grandson is excavating what’s left of us, and trying to work out what fidget spinner is for, they won’t know the half of it. I don’t know what a fidget spinner is for, and I’m sitting right here in the golden age of fidget spinners…

      Does that matter? Not knowing the half of it? Maybe it does. For years archaeologists were stumped by Roman dodecahedrons with knobbly bits. Complete mystery, but recently solved!!! (They’re for making gloves). Google Youtube. They’ve nailed it.

      So is the knowledge that vital? Well this is Scotland, with Pictish symbols nobody can decipher, a society which perplexed the Romans which we know nothing about, vitrified iron age hillforts nobody can adequately explain, and weird bronze age / neolithic round balls which are just as mysterious as Roman Dodecahedrons used to be.

      Look at a cathedral built 1000 years ago, pretty much any cathedral, castle or palace, actually, and look at the Scottish Parliament Building, and ask yourself as a modern hi-tech throwaway society whether we’re doing it right.

      OK, buried somewhere in all of that I think you’ll find one use for a monarch. lol.

    265. robbo says:

      Aye Mark Boyle and A Ellis lets just skip roon the issue. If you think anither we Edinburgh agreement and a simple 50% +1 will do the trick and everything will run smoothly for the next thousand years then yer fecking daft.

      If the Spanish polis kent wit these scum were singing they’d have deported them back tae Govan b4 the got beat that night. Embarrassing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqLB_wwlAUw

      As fur the nae papes b4 the ToU lol ,aye awe right . So its the Stewarts faut that the frigity queen couldnae find a bloke tae shag her and gee her a wean lol aye ok. Mibbees if she didnae have a face like sumit hinging oot o a craws nest lucking fur worms- somebody wid have shagged her.!

    266. robbo says:

      Yer such a puritan Mark. Everything’s rosie in your world and there’s nae prods and nae tims. Unfortunately their here and not going away anytime soon. So treaty or no treaty these things need dealt wi. No 50%+1 will satisfy the knuckledraggers I assure you.

      My point is if folk want tae discuss it they can as far as I see- whether it makes any difference but your not the high and mighty of the Indy movement anymore so than the freaks in dresses waving a dick about.

    267. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robbo , they really are a bunch of ignorant numpties in that clip. Did they not comprehend that Spain is a very catholic country and Spanish police are not ones for standing any nonsense. If the police had known they would have been jumped on them.

      What kind of club is proud of these supporters?

    268. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dorothy Devine –

      They’re out in force in Irvine today. Drums and flutes and Sevco tops everywhere.

      No idea what they’re gathering for, if it’s a jubilee thing or what. At least they got a nice day for it.

      😉

    269. robbo says:

      Dorothy

      I was in Seville when Celtic played. It was a totally different atmosphere- none of a we hate protestants there I assure you because half Celtic supporters are protestants.
      As big Jock Stein used to say “if ye can play fitba I don’t care what religion ye ur” Unfortunately Rangers didn’t change their anti catholic policy till Mo Johnston signed after playing for Celtic b4 hand – now there’s loads of them in their teams- quite ironic they sing this song- really is.

    270. Saffron Robe says:

      Breeks,

      I think the same as you. I am a republican by default. I believe in the royal Scottish bloodline but that bloodline is no more. Since the Union of the Crowns the royal bloodline has been corrupted beyond recognition to enforce Protestant succession. There is also strong evidence that the current English monarch is not a legitimate monarch:

      http://www.serendipity.li/more/monarch.htm

      Since the Scottish people are sovereign, under Nicola Sturgeon’s proposal, an independent Scotland would have a foreign, non-representative, unelected head of state. Yes, that really makes sense!

    271. Andy Ellis says:

      @robbo 2.14 pm

      I’m not skipping around any issue. I don’t expect there to be an indyref anytime soon. The responsibility for it not happening lies with the Scottish government not putting the matter of the “legality” of a referendum without a S30 order beyond doubt in the courts years ago. Folk were talking about this in 2012: I remember it, and the discussions with real constitutional lawyers who were – surprise, surprise! – divided on the matter. Some thought the courts would rule such a referendum was within the competence of Holyrood, some thought the opposite.

      Absent an actual definitive legal decision, and on the assumption that Sturgeon’s SNP are never going to do anything radical like hold a “wildcat referendum” which doesn’t adhere to the 2014 precedent, the only reasonable alternative is for the movement as a whole to declare that, given the breach of faith exhibited by British nationalists failing to honour the 2014 precedent, we will treat every subsequent general election in Westminster or Holyrood as a plebiscitary vote for independence, and that 50% + 1 votes for pro independence parties would therefore be game over for the union.

      None of that is rocket science. Plebiscitary elections would still seem to me a faster route to independence if the whole movement got on board with the idea than formulating grandiose schemes for National Assemblies, conventions and novel routes to bypass referendums, elections and Holyrood altogether: nobody has been able to convince me that their cunning plans would hasten the achievement of independence. In fact I think it would do the opposite.

      If you look at the discussions about what to do, how to do, and who will be deciding BTL on Yours For Scotland or Craig Murray’s blog by those advocating these alternative paths, they seem to generate a lot of heat, but not much light.

    272. Andy Ellis says:

      @saffron robe 3.17 pm

      A lot of medieval historians dismiss the idea that Cecily Neville had a child with a random archer. There was a medieval history podcast the other day when one of the experts poured cold water on the idea.

      I also expect most Scots would be in favour of a Scottish republic if it were put to the vote, but the generally accepted Stuart heir apparent is Franz, Duke of Bavaria. He’s also putative King of Bavaria. As he has no children, his brother Prince Max is next in line. Max has five daughters and no sons, so the second in line to the Stuart succession is his eldest daughter Sophie, Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein. Her husband is heir apparent to the Principality of Liechtenstein.

      I’m not sure Scots are ready for another German dynasty….even if they are the direct descendants of the Stuarts deprived of their rights by the Act of Succession!

    273. Republicofscotland says:

      It reads in most parts as a who’s who’s of deep state functionaries ex-SIS and GCHQ personnel and that’s just from the UK.

      Incidentally Washington for the venue this year, I’m not surprised.

      BILDERBERG MEETING 2022
      Washington D.C., 2 June – 5 June 2022

      https://bilderbergmeetings.org/press/press-release/participants

    274. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 3:38pm
      I an inclined to agree with you that put to a public vote the Head of State question would probably favour a Republican model. Especially amongst SNP and Alba voters. Makes the intervention by Nicola Sturgeon appear courageous but clever none the less. She is banking on settling the horses to win over the marginal vote. Also emphasises that SNP party members have little input into the formation of policy. Compare her approach to the ambivalent statement by Alex during the referendum ‘The Queen will always be the Queen of Scots’. Cost me some grief on the street that one did.

    275. PacMan says:

      Considering there are Orange walks held in Benidorm, the cultural significance of one half of Glasgow’s finest won’t be unnoticed to the Spanish population.

      Spain is like every country and the professionalism of their police is no exception. However, I think if some mouthy Rangers supporting hooligan is stupid enough not to behave themselves and fall foul of the local laws, they won’t have an enjoyable stay at the local Policìa won’t be as peaceful as those of other thugs in the same boat.

    276. Robert Graham says:

      More shite from the resident Squatter , latest @ 3:38 .

      How the fk do you know what most people think about the monarchy

      By the way do you live here ? don’t you have a home ?

      Directed at the prick that keeps posting total shite , EVERY FKN DAY I guess it’s your job arse wipe , shite spreading on a Industrial Scale

      Don’t know who I am referring too ? I bet you do .

    277. James Che. says:

      Before any kind of election, plebisite or deciding wether to be a republican state of future Scotland.

      I want to see some serious evidence that the Scots were invited to join the treaty of the union in the first instance.

      And iI do not mean the Three Estates Parliament.

      I mean the the Scots as a people and nation.

      Give me that evidence.

    278. James Che. says:

      It is recognised the Scots are Sovereign.

      That means that no queen or king could choose commissioners or representative’s on our behalf.

      We did not choose any ourselves to enter the treaty of the union.

      And the English parliament decided not to invite the Scot’s people and nation to have a vote to join the treaty of the union.

      Show me historical evidence that the people in the nation and country of Scotland are under the treaty of union.

      Because if no one can.

      It means we are not in the treaty of the union.

    279. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Graham

      “How the fk do you know what most people think about the monarchy”

      I don’t “know”, I’m making an intelligent guess based on some evidence. I realise this isn’t an option available to you. Soz.

      “Scottish support for monarchy falls to 45%, poll reveals”

      https://archive.ph/QYKGE

      “By the way do you live here ? don’t you have a home ?”

      No, Edinburgh bud. I see this as missionary work to the hard of thinking like your good self. Happy to help.

      Remember, google can be your friend: it would have helped you look like less of a clueless troll on the Scots attitudes to the monarchy above. Any reasonably able primary school pupil would have been able to do it. What’s your excuse, other than a propensity to come out from under you bridge now and then and throw rocks at those with a life…?

    280. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 5.30 pm

      “It means we are not in the treaty of the union.”

      So it’s Schroedinger’s Union then? We’re in it but not in it at the same time?

      Have you been on the magic mushrooms James? Nobody buys the narrative that the unions has been breached, or that it’s not legitimate. It’s navel gazing tosh. You keep asking for evidence James, so present your evidence from acknowledged experts in the field of constitutional history, international law, politics and international relations theory supporting your view. Presumably if it is so self evident that the Treaties are a fiction, it shouldn’t be too hard too find and present to us, right?

      Scotland has some pretty good constitutional lawyers: perhaps you’ve already asked them, or perhaps your mates (those who keep assuring us there’s an alternative “cunning plan” route to independence that bypasses referendums or plebiscitary elections) have consulted them, or neutral experts from abroad?

      You appear to be an amateur who has read the treaties and some information around them and formed your own very personal and strongly held opinions about them. Whether they hold any water should surely be subject to some independent analysis, not by other amateurs who have “skin in the game” like yourself, but actual professionally qualified people: academics, lawyers, experts in their fields who can shed some light on these issues you post on ad nauseam.

      We’re all ears…..

    281. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 5:45pm
      I noticed that poll. 19% rejected the choice or said dont know though. Hence my ‘probably’ language. Compared to Stus original research of January 2015. Where there was little socio cultural difference on that and other cultural issues between Scotland and rUk. So the dial has moved. In any event there will be no public vote on the Head of State issue. Woven into SNP policy is that when Scotland becomes an Independent country the Queen will be Head of State. And if you consider the words Nicola used last week it was tantamount to an oath.

    282. Ruby says:

      George Ferguson says:
      4 June, 2022 at 6:05 pm
      In any event there will be no public vote on the Head of State issue. Woven into SNP policy is that when Scotland becomes an Independent country the Queen will be Head of State. And if you consider the words Nicola used last week it was tantamount to an oath.

      1. How long are you expecting Nicola Sturgeon/The SNP to be in power?
      2. How long do you expect the Queen to live?

    283. James Che. says:

      Andy.

      No I do not consider the treaty of the union for both the then called english and the Three Estates/ Scottish Parliament did hold a treaty of union that would have bound them together right up to date. If the actual Scottish had continued.
      Except the english parliament asked the Scottish parliament to close its doors. Making the treaty void,

      How can the original Scottish parliament be now held to account to up hold any of its promises
      That parliament no longer exists in its original non devolved entirety as a valid entitiy.

      At least One half of the treaty ceased to exist before the british parliament could be created.
      Other wise there would have been three parliaments running simultainiously between Scotland and England.
      There wasn’t.

      So one half of the agreed treaty ceased.
      Leaving the English Parliament on its own with the now useless treaty agreement,

      It does not matter what the two parliaments agreed to for the future british parliament that could come into existance afterwards.

      The Scottish Parliament of 1707 that ceased, can not now be held accountable to day.
      And the devolved parliament of today is an british parliament,

    284. George Ferguson says:

      @Ruby 6:48pm
      The words that were used…Heirs and successors which forms the basis of the pledge of allegiance of say a police officer for example. It’s nailed on SNP policy. Going on past electoral performance I expect them to be in power beyond 2026 because of the structurally deficient voting system we have. I think it is a very brave strategy but they might pull it off. It’s all the other stuff I don’t want them to succeed in. Any way I about to watch that old crooner Rod Stewart.

    285. Ruby says:

      George Ferguson says:

      Woven into SNP policy is that when Scotland becomes an Independent country the Queen will be Head of State.

      That is going to have to be updated to “when Scotland becomes an Independent country King Charles & Queen Camilla will be Heads of State”.

      That could change attitudes quite lot.

      They should also add as long as the SNP are in power.

    286. James Che. says:

      Simplified explanation.
      Not meant to be a joke, although it could become one I am sure.

      Two men, a English man and a Scots man agree to join busines forces to create a new business, wrote down on paper, observed by both sets of representative lawyers. Signed by many,

      However one man dies before the agreement can continue,

      What can the remaining man do?
      The remaining man nor the solicitors can sue or chase a man that has demised,
      ceased to exist, or his promise.

    287. Saffron Robe says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      “I also expect most Scots would be in favour of a Scottish republic if it were put to the vote, but the generally accepted Stuart heir apparent is Franz, Duke of Bavaria.”

      Andy,

      I don’t disagree with your assessment of the Stuart lineage, but as per the Declaration of Arbroath, the Scots cannot have a foreign monarch, as opposed to England who didn’t really care about the nationality of their monarch as long as they were Protestant! That is why I said the royal Scottish bloodline is no more, in much the same way that Israel say, also a nation with a dispersed royal lineage, is now a de facto republic.

    288. Stoker says:

      “regardless of their views on the monarchy everyone should respect the queen” says Skanky Sturgeon

      Aye! Sure! As much as i respect excrement-filled sewers. Keep your sycophantic drool for your mirror. Scotland will decide post-indy if we retain a bunch of foreign medieval parasites as our head of state.

    289. Dan says:

      @ sarah

      Seeing as you said you were going to be busy in the garden squishing caterpillars instead of attending Manniefest…

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/06/04/we-need-to-fight-back/

    290. James Che. says:

      And the gentleman that remained had decided not to invite any other people into the agreement,

      As with the English parliament that decided not to ask the Scots to join the treaty of the union business.

    291. James Che. says:

      The treaty of the union was broken at its very conception by asking the Scottish half of the treaty of the union to cease to exist.
      Before the british parliament came into existance.

      From a legal perspective, the English parliament turned itself into the British Parliament and has continued thus for the last 300 years.
      For the Scottish Parliament had closed its doors prior to the completion of the treaty of the union Not afterwards.

      There was never 3 parliaments running at one and the same time in Great britain.

    292. John Main says:

      @CrapMan 1:05

      “Nobody likes getting talked down to”

      “The ability to listen and empathise with people is required”

      “You need to have credible answers”

      Truly remarkable insights, CrapMan. Yours? Or something you learned through talking to your wall?

      But then we read your posts over the past week or so, and evaluate how they stack up against your self-proclaimed ideals above.

      Big, big fail. Obvs.

    293. PacMan says:

      There is a lot of mythology regarding the monarchy. How much of that mythology is going to survive and be relevant once the Queen ceases to be head of State of the UK and her heirs takes the throne?

      Given the reception that the young royals was given in the ‘former territories’, might give a taste of things to come.

    294. Dorothy Devine says:

      Robbo , many , many years ago I met Jock Stein – he was manager of Hibs and the entire team were staying in the hotel I was working in for the summer. He was a lovely man.
      My interest in football is cursory and extends only to Scotland playing – watching from behind the couch!
      I have never understood religious animosity , as I grew up in Aberdeen I really didn’t experience it. First Saturday in Glasgow I met something I had never experienced – the Orange walk and I wanted to cross the road.

      It is good to know that not all football supporters are as despicable as that shower.

      Ian B , you have my sympathy!

      Sarah , I like your sawfly analogy!

    295. Mark Boyle says:

      robbo says: 4 June, 2022 at 2:14 pm

      [amid the usual screed of James Kelman meets Oor Wullie piffle]

      As fur the nae papes b4 the ToU lol ,aye awe right . So its the Stewarts faut that the frigity queen couldnae find a bloke tae shag her and gee her a wean lol aye ok. Mibbees if she didnae have a face like sumit hinging oot o a craws nest lucking fur worms- somebody wid have shagged her.!

      Well roared, Bottom.

      Quite aside from displaying your ignorance over Liz’s marriage issues (Essex, the Amy Robsart scandal, etc), a stunning series of half-pissed observations – two in a row in fact – whilst most normal folk such as myself were catching some rays on Scotland’s hottest day of the year instead of trolling an internet board.

      Stick to your Old Firm brawlboards, champ, it’s just about the level you are fit for.

    296. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      4 June, 2022 at 9:05 pm
      whilst most normal folk such as myself were catching some rays on Scotland’s hottest day of the year instead of trolling an internet board.

      Did you know you can catch some rays & also post on the internet. The miracle of modern technology!

      Personally I find just lying on the grass or on a beach to be extremely boring. Just out of interest what level in your opinion is required to post here on Wings Over Scotland?

    297. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      I see this as missionary work to the hard of thinking like your good self. Happy to help.

      What does this missionary work involve? Is your aim to teach others how to be a complete cunts?

      It looks as if you have managed two maybe three converts. Are you happy with that? It seems you put in a tremendous amount of effort with very poor results.

    298. George Ferguson says:

      Watching Nicola Sturgeon and hubby sat 3 Rows behind the Royal Family at the concert. A superb strategy. You can have your IndyRef2 if you pledge allegiance to the Royal Family. Different and interesting. Meanwhile can you dump GRA and stop gaslighting Scottish males. Nicola is to males as Salmond was to females. Ah well a new strategy we have to think about. The new new SNP. It might work though or like Arlene Foster she wants a Damehood. It’s your choice. Rod Stewarts voice gone but the memory muscle saw him through. Alicia Keys stole the show.

    299. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      1. Nobody buys the narrative that the unions has been breached

      2. I’m not sure Scots are ready for another German dynasty….even if they are the direct descendants of the Stuarts deprived of their rights by the Act of Succession!

      1. I do, James Cheyne does.

      I’ve read the Union with England Act 1707 (as amended, because the original isn’t viewable on leg dot gov)

      Here’s a direct quote –

      “And it is hereby Statute and Ordained That this Act of Parliament with the Establishment therein contained shall be held and observed in all time coming as a fundamentall and essentiall Condition of any Treaty or Union to be Concluded betwixt the Two Kingdoms without any Alteration thereof or Derogation thereto in any sort for ever

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1707/7?view=extent#commentary-c920124

      2. Claim of Right Act 1689 removed James VII, the Act of Settlement only applies to England.

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aosp/1689/28?view=extent

      Here’s a question for you, FandAndy.

      Have you actually read either piece of legislation?

    300. Ruby says:

      PacMan says:
      4 June, 2022 at 1:05 pm
      For me, the answer is yes, the ability to listen and emphasise with people is required but you need to have credible answers to their fears and insecurities about independence.

      I haven’t completely thought this through but I’m thinking questions & answers should be kept to a very minimum. To what extent can you give any guarantee about future events?

      I think we got bogged down in the 2014 IndyRef campaign by ‘Better Together’ questions. ie We wasted a lot of time with questions about EU membership.

      Any questions about the monarchy, the EU, the price of a first class stamp should wait until Scotland is independent.

      The answer to those question should be: ‘that would be something for an independent Scottish electorate to decide on’.

      Could be a mistake for the SNP to be answering questions about these issues as if it’s a general election.

    301. Ruby says:

      George Ferguson says:

      Meanwhile can you dump GRA and stop gaslighting Scottish males. Nicola is to males as Salmond was to females.

      I’m totally confused by that statement George.

    302. George Ferguson says:

      @Ruby 11:14pm
      OK I will try to explain. I was part of the Independence voting Scottish males 53% that voted for Independence. Meanwhile Scottish females didn’t vote for Independence. Stu has the numbers. I am saying that Sturgeon is to Scottish males that Salmond was to Scottish females. We won’t win Scottish Independence until she ameliorates her stance on males. I am OK with the new new SNP strategy it has a chance of success. But she has to drop GRA and protect my wife, daughters and granddaughters. Otherwise she will be a babybox leader.

    303. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      4 June, 2022 at 11:14 pm

      George Ferguson says:

      Meanwhile can you dump GRA and stop gaslighting Scottish males. Nicola is to males as Salmond was to females.

      I’m totally confused by that statement George.

      He’s probably pished as a fart, sitting surrounded by tissues after shining his shilling frantically during the joobylee concert.

      He was all talk about making plans to leave Scotland for good not so long ago, and gave some of his fortune away to Captain Crackpot of ‘sinking school’ fame.

      He rarely makes sense.

    304. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      4 June, 2022 at 11:41 pm

      Ruby says:
      4 June, 2022 at 11:14 pm

      George Ferguson says:

      Meanwhile can you dump GRA and stop gaslighting Scottish males. Nicola is to males as Salmond was to females.

      I’m totally confused by that statement George.

      He’s probably pished as a fart, sitting surrounded by tissues after shining his shilling frantically during the joobylee concert.

      He was all talk about making plans to leave Scotland for good not so long ago, and gave some of his fortune away to Captain Crackpot of ‘sinking school’ fame.

      He rarely makes sense.

      Maybe Missionary Ellis will help him out.
      I was amazed that he rushed off earlier to watch Rod Stewart. Anyone who watched the Glasgow Commonwealth Games knew back then knew that Rod Stewart had lost his voice.

    305. robbo says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      4 June, 2022 at 9:05 pm
      robbo says: 4 June, 2022 at 2:14 pm

      Aye ok son . Yi ken as much aboot life as ma ring piece kens aboot snipe shooting.

      That’ll be it – it wis aw the marriage issues- Aye ok son you ken .

      Amy Rosart scandal – geez piece ya rocket .

      Stoap roasting me wae yer faux intellectual pish aboot ye ken aw aboot the huns and the tims and their awe bads cunts.

      It is wit is is in life pal. Get over it , it’s no aw aboot Celtic and Rangers so fecking deal wae yer ain shit.

      Liz 1 wis by all accounts recorded a frigity no very fair looking and a kiddie oan “joan of arc” wannabe.

      She wis fair ugly bint and thats why naebody wanted tae bare her a wean.

      Now I wisnae aboot 500 hunner year ago , bit gist guessing like.

      Love the banter Mark.

    306. Scott says:

      robbo says:
      5 June, 2022 at 12:23 am

      Liz 1 wis by all accounts recorded a frigity no very fair looking and a kiddie oan “joan of arc” wannabe.

      Elizabeth I of England was a gay man, forced to live life as a woman.

    307. Breeks says:

      https://twitter.com/gunsandbanjos/status/1532975953290399745

      How fkd up is this?

      Why compete in sport with so much physical advantage it makes an absolute mockery of what sport actually is? Who the fuck would feel rewarded by winning a sprint in a Paralympic event because they could run faster than somebody with one leg? I mean, what the actual fk does it prove? Just take a gun into the boxing ring if you can’t beat the other guy. I mean why not, when you’ve no concept of fairness or sporting principle?

      What is it? Is it a desire to crush women and belittle their achievements? What is wrong with people who seek to pursue such “achievements”? Not only does it wreck the legitimate realm of women’s sport, but it renders void any meaning to the “prize” these imposters “win”. They’d be more entitled to the prizes if they’d nicked them. This is a fundamental sociopathy on open display.

      How do we stop this fkg absurdity destroying and devaluing benchmarks and pinnacles of achievement which become key moments in people’s lives? Even the ethical platitude “It’s not the winning but the taking part” is hollowed out and trashed. We want sport, women’s sport, not literally a pantomime with ugly sisters in drag.

      Women’s sport is for women. Jesus H, what is so difficult to grasp? As for the organising body, why in the name of god are you facilitating this? Are you under some kind of duress or coercion to present such surreal absurdity with a straight face?

      Tell you what, let me organise your sport. I’d be proud to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous bullshit and defend the rights of women sport. Nevermind losing sponsors, if the sponsors didn’t cheer me to the rafters for doing so, I’d be booting out those sponsors and looking for new ones.

    308. Dorothy Devine says:

      With you there Breeks . Women are losing so it’s about time they fought back , which means losing in a big way by not participating – turn up at the starting line but don’t move. Hard to do I know after years of preparation and commitment but I can see no other way.

      Who are the gullible pillocks who back this biological distortion?

    309. Ruby says:

      Breeks says:

      Women’s sport is for women. Jesus H, what is so difficult to grasp?

      They are women! Look at their pronouns you fuckin’ bigot.

      https://tinyurl.com/mr4cpx3t

    310. Robert Hughes says:

      Aye Breeks that photo sums-up the enfuriating idiocy/unfairness of the whole * Trans * bollocks – pun fckn intended .

      These are the same pathetic victimhood – seeking eejits who have the gall to attempt to equate their status with that of the millions murdered in the Holocaust , as they stamp all over the rights of REAL women , make a mockery of the concept of fairness in sport , soon to be the case in every other aspect of society where women have had to fight since time immemorial to be treated as equals .

      As our friend Lorna Campbell has been- brilliantly- articulating for some time now …..this is in essence a men’s * rights * movement , dressed-up in nice pink frocks and the appropriated language of Civil/Human Rights . As Lorna – and others , keep saying , they have the exact same rights as everyone else , no one is stopping them impersonating females , just don’t expect anyone who is not a simpering accomplice in this pantomime ( like N Sturgeon ) to participate in your role-playing fantasy .

      Dorothy . Yes , that’s what it’s going to take to halt this takeover of women’s sport . The total non-participation of actual women . Let the cheats compete amongst themselves ; it’s the only way this will end ; we know seemingly every politician in the West has been captured by this madness so no redress can be expected from that quarter

    311. Ruby says:

      I predict the trans issue is all going to go pear shaped in the very near future.

      I would suggest women (the old fashioned dinosaur type women)in sport should just be patient and look on competing against men as a way to improve their performance.

      Kinda similar to the Australian technique of tossing an alligator in the pool to help increase swimmers speed.

    312. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:

      Dorothy . Yes , that’s what it’s going to take to halt this takeover of women’s sport . The total non-participation of actual women .

      What would a Zen Buddhist do?
      Would the alligator in the water not been seen as a challenge to overcome, something positive that would help them achieve enlightenment?

    313. Robert Hughes says:

      Thanks for that Ricky Gervais clip Breeks ; I noted the * controversy * but hadn’t seen or read what it consisted of . He totally nails the whole demented shitshow .

      How long before he’s * cancelled * ?

      ” Kinda similar to the Australian technique of tossing an alligator in the pool to help increase swimmers speed. ” Lol , I like your thinking there Ruby . Would the same principal work with the NSNP hired-archies ? ie throw a mandate in a pool to see how fast they could escape from it’s intimidating presence

    314. Robert Hughes says:

      ” What would a Zen Buddhist do?
      Would the alligator in the water not been seen as a challenge to overcome, something positive that would help them achieve enlightenment? ”

      Eh…. not sure Ruby , but if this Zen Buddhist was smart he/she would find another – alligator free – pool to swim in 🙂

    315. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says:
      4 June, 2022 at 9:25 pm

      Did you know you can catch some rays & also post on the internet. The miracle of modern technology!

      Did you know most laptops and smart phone screens are buggered in sunlight?

      Nice try, grandma.

      Just out of interest what level in your opinion is required to post here on Wings Over Scotland?

      Pot Kettle Black.

      Still for what it’s worth, I’d say that one person one alias would be a start, but as certain sad little boys and girls clearly can’t cope without running up a screed of pretend friends to give them “haunners” on a comments section, that’s never going to happen round here, is it?

    316. Mark Boyle says:

      robbo says: 5 June, 2022 at 12:23 am

      Aye ok son . Yi ken as much aboot life as ma ring piece kens aboot snipe shooting.

      That’ll be it – it wis aw the marriage issues- Aye ok son you ken .

      Amy Rosart scandal – geez piece ya rocket .

      Stoap roasting me wae yer faux intellectual pish aboot ye ken aw aboot the huns and the tims and their awe bads cunts.

      It is wit is is in life pal. Get over it , it’s no aw aboot Celtic and Rangers so fecking deal wae yer ain shit.

      Liz 1 wis by all accounts recorded a frigity no very fair looking and a kiddie oan “joan of arc” wannabe.

      She wis fair ugly bint and thats why naebody wanted tae bare her a wean.

      Now I wisnae aboot 500 hunner year ago , bit gist guessing like.

      Love the banter Mark.

      Does anyone have translation facilities? It could be Blackspeech or Cro-Magnon, but Google Translate was no help.

    317. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 9.51 pm

      “What does this missionary work involve? Is your aim to teach others how to be a complete cunts?”

      You achieve it so effortlessly yourself though Rubes….you patently need no help from anyone else. You’re such a collection of personality flaws collected in a skin bag that it naturally results in a deeply unpleasant person.

      Some are just beyond all help, however good the teacher.

    318. Ottomanboi says:

      Sturgeon has problems with being decisive, except it seems in niche «gender» topics, however if she were to state boldly and unquestionably her support for a Scots Republic as the immediate consequence of independence respect for her integrity might begin to return, for leadership is about decision making, not «havering».
      No disrespect to London borough of the name intended.

    319. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Scott

      “1. I do, James Cheyne does.”

      So what? Anyone with an internet connection can do the same and give us their “hot take”. You are if I recalll a mathematician. I’ve no idea what James Che’s background is, nor do I really care, but he certainly doesn’t comes across as a subject matter expert, more of a monomaniacally obsessed amateur talking about stuff he doesn’t really understand.

      “2. Claim of Right Act 1689 removed James VII, the Act of Settlement only applies to England.”

      I have read parts of he legislation. They’re interesting historical documents, but they won’t accelerate or slow down independence. Still, neither you nor James is capable of answering the question posed upthread, or more likely you simply don’t want to answer it, because you know it holes what passes for you “argument” below the water line. If there was even a scintilla of evidence supporting what you and James drone on and on about ad nauseam in here, you’d be able to point to supporting articles, analysis and scholarly work from recognised legal, historical and constitutional experts backing it up.

      That body of research would demonstrate how we could use the contents and current status of the Treaties to help us achieve independence via some cunning novel route which obviates the need for a referendum or plebiscitary elections. You have no such evidence, because there is none: just a lot of regurgitating stuff neither of you really understands, and misapplying it to our current situation.

      Nobody apart from a handful of cranks in here gives a toss about all this navel gazing and dancing on the head of constitutional pins. We know what is required to gain independence: putting an X on a ballot paper.

    320. Mark Boyle says:

      Breeks says:
      5 June, 2022 at 3:58 am

      https://twitter.com/gunsandbanjos/status/1532975953290399745

      How fkd up is this?

      Why compete in sport with so much physical advantage it makes an absolute mockery of what sport actually is? Who the fuck would feel rewarded by winning a sprint in a Paralympic event because they could run faster than somebody with one leg? I mean, what the actual fk does it prove?

      If there’s direct or indirect (ie. thousands in sponsorship funding) money to be made, there will be a cheat. Never underestimate the selfishness of the human race and you will never be disappointed by it.

      Funny you should mention the Paralympics – one of the concerns they have as its levels of corporate sponsorship increase is the outbreak of “bionic legs”. ie blades specially designed for sprinting and how long before they start getting able bodied athletes getting amputations in order to take part – the reason being the day is going to come when the reigning Paralympics 100 metres champion is faster than the reigning Olympics one.

      How do we stop this fkg absurdity destroying and devaluing benchmarks and pinnacles of achievement which become key moments in people’s lives? Even the ethical platitude “It’s not the winning but the taking part” is hollowed out and trashed. We want sport, women’s sport, not literally a pantomime with ugly sisters in drag.

      Sharron Davies (not exactly the most likeable person, granted) has been banging on about this ever since she was cheated out of gold – even after the biological male sans meat and two vegs was disqualified after the fact. She warned this day would come, was mocked for it, lo and behold it happened.

      Unfortunately, Gay Rights has become as much a multi-million pound corporate lobby group as the Race Relations Industry and the environment have where all manner of snakes and charlatans have bulldozed the well meaning out of the way and turned into vehicles for lives of Riley.

      I’d have more time for Jakey Rowling if she put her bloody money where her tweets are and said to these women’s sporting organisations, “if you want to put in a rule that only biological females may compete, I with my multi-millions will cover the shortfall in sponsorship when advertisers shit their pants from Stonewall, etc. bullying and pull out” – because THAT is what it is going to take to stop this, giving these self-righteous little shits a tart reminder where the real power lies.

    321. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis @ 9.43
      Nobody apart from a handful of cranks in here gives a toss about all this navel gazing and dancing on the head of constitutional pins. We know what is required to gain independence: putting an X on a ballot paper.

      Can you define what you mean by ‘we’

    322. Andy Ellis says:

      @Saffron Robe 7.22 pm

      “I don’t disagree with your assessment of the Stuart lineage, but as per the Declaration of Arbroath, the Scots cannot have a foreign monarch, as opposed to England who didn’t really care about the nationality of their monarch as long as they were Protestant! That is why I said the royal Scottish bloodline is no more, in much the same way that Israel say, also a nation with a dispersed royal lineage, is now a de facto republic.”

      Surely a sovereign Scottish people can have any monarch they like, or indeed none and have a republic? Being in thrall to a 700 year old document is even more nuts than thinking the Treaties of Union should be our guide today. Historically newly independent countries frequently “imported” foreigners with no connection to their countries to become monarchs, often petty German princes.

      The Swedes were a bit more imaginative and asked Bernadotte one of Napoleon’s Marshals to become king. The Norwegians asked a Danish prince to be their king after the Swedes refused to let a Swedish one accept the throne after the dissolution of the union between Sweden and Norway. If Scots are daft enough to want to continue with an institution based on purity of bloodline, they might as well ensure one with some provenance. It’d probably go down a storm with the nativists in here!

    323. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 9.52 am

      Ordinary voters and independence supporters. Folk who aren’t in the same basket of deplorables as Scott, James and some of the other pieces of work in here.

      Happy to help.

    324. John Main says:

      Ruby hollers:4 June, 2022 at 11:08 pm

      “I haven’t completely thought this through but I’m thinking questions & answers should be kept to a very minimum. To what extent can you give any guarantee about future events?

      I think we got bogged down in the 2014 IndyRef campaign by ‘Better Together’ questions. ie We wasted a lot of time with questions about EU membership.

      Any questions about the monarchy, the EU, the price of a first class stamp should wait until Scotland is independent.

      The answer to those question should be: ‘that would be something for an independent Scottish electorate to decide on’.

      Could be a mistake for the SNP to be answering questions about these issues as if it’s a general election.”

      Ruby posts all of the above in her signature “shouty” text, perhaps her not-so-subtle way of telling us that her posts are more important than everybody elses.

      Vanishingly rare for her to post anything worth responding to, but this time she has pulled out all of the stops.

      I’m thinking that pro-Indy canvassers on the doorsteps should get issued little cards with “We don’t know” printed on them. For settled “no”s and maybes the undecided, the cards could be left to give the voters something to think about.

      Myself, after forming a snap assessment of who I was talking to, I might just be tempted to say “that would be an ecumenical matter”.

      Yup, Indy through Ignorance. You heard it here first. Thanks Ruby.

    325. John Main says:

      CrapMan says:4 June, 2022 at 8:44 pm

      “There is a lot of mythology regarding the monarchy”

      No shit Sherlock!

      Where do you get these groundbreaking insights?

      Fess up, CrapMan, you’re getting help!

    326. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 June, 2022 at 9:43 am

      “1. I do, James Cheyne does.”

      So what? Anyone with an internet connection can do the same and give us their “hot take”. You are if I recalll a mathematician. I’ve no idea what James Che’s background is, nor do I really care, but he certainly doesn’t comes across as a subject matter expert, more of a monomaniacally obsessed amateur talking about stuff he doesn’t really understand.

      “2. Claim of Right Act 1689 removed James VII, the Act of Settlement only applies to England.”

      I have read parts of he (sic) legislation.

      If you’ve only read parts, how can you say that the Articles haven’t been breached/broken, or that they are now irrelevant?

      You sound like a fucking Tory.

      PS I’m not just a mathematician. You, however, are just a ‘Dunning-Kruger’ crackpot.

    327. John Main says:

      @Ottomanboi says:5 June, 2022 at 9:27 am

      “if she were to state boldly and unquestionably her support for a Scots Republic as the immediate consequence of independence respect for her integrity might begin to return”

      Sure, just as if she were to state boldly etc. etc. support for a constitutional monarchy, respect for her integrity (from a different segment of the population) might return.

      Then again, we could just hand out Ruby’s “We don’t know” cards to all questioners.

      Writing a constitution is not rocket science in any technical way. There are already existing good examples that can be cribbed. A figure, or office, or role, that is above the day-to-day ebb and flow of democratic opinion, fad and fashion is needed. That can be a monarch. Than can be something else under a different name. The point is, the necessary checks and balances for sound, sustainable, acceptable government do not exist if all branches of that government can theoretically be turfed out every 4 or 5 years and replaced with a new set diametrically opposed to the previous set. And need I add, a new set of untrained, inexperienced beginners, who will spend most of their 4-5 years in office trying to work out how things function.

      Short term-ism in politics, as driven by the election cycle, destroys the medium to long-term prospects of any sovereign nation. The trick is to find a system that encompasses enough long-term consistency with democratic accountability and replacement.

      A figurehead, that is above party politics, fills the role of providing long-term consistency.

    328. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 June, 2022 at 9:57 am

      @Tourette’s Ruby 9.52 am

      Ordinary voters and independence supporters. Folk who aren’t in the same basket of deplorables as Scott, James and some of the other pieces of work in here.

      Happy to help.

      It’s great that you are so happy to help.

      Can I now ask you what you mean by ordinary?
      What % of independence supporters do you consider are ordinary?

      Would you discourage the Yes movement from canvassing for votes from the ‘not ordinary voter?

      Should Scott & James be encouraged to vote NO or just ignored?
      Would you prefer not to have a vote from ‘fri_nge nut_ters, moonho_lers, ski_d m_arks, sche_emies, folk with Tou_rettes, uneducated p_ork & all the ‘non-ordinary voters?”

      Just wondering how your group ‘the ordinary voters’ go about canvassing for votes?

      ‘You’re a fringe nutter we don’t want your vote. Away and vote NO!’

      Thanks in advance for your help!

    329. Ottomanboi says:

      https://archive.ph/AWIkB
      Whether nat or yoon the above gives cause for deep thought.
      Where is all this going? For the young the highroad is still to London.
      Simply, nothing for you anywhere else. May explain why in Scotland’s case the nationalist movements demographic median age is so high. The yoons are if anything worse.
      Was Scotland ever a country in which it was a joy to be young?

    330. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      5 June, 2022 at 9:27 am

      Sturgeon has problems with being decisive, except it seems in niche «gender» topics, however if she were to state boldly and unquestionably her support for a Scots Republic…

      Not accusing you of it Ottomanboi, but I genuinely do not understand what people see in Nicola Sturgeon.

      Her popularity is a mystery to me, but rather than possessed of a mysterious talent I don’t understand, I suspect there is a lack of analysis occuring in the minds of those who support her. It’s a bit like watching the screaming fans of some transparently fake, fad, boy band and and all the rational people wondering what the fk is wrong with them.

      It’s an Independent Scotland we’re meant to be focusing on. Get this 8 year trainwreck out of the way so we might finally continue our journey.

    331. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      5 June, 2022 at 10:22 am

      Then again, we could just hand out Ruby’s “We don’t know” cards to all questioners.

      It would be a lot more honest than just making up shit like you do on a regular basis.

      Who wants a repeat of the pantomime we had in 2014? Probably only folk like yourself Main & of course ‘Better Together’.

      Question: What currency will you use?
      Answer: The £
      Better Together: Oh no you wont
      Yes movement: Oh yes we will

      Question: Will we retain EU membership
      Answer: Yes we will
      Better Together: Oh no you wont. We’ve got a letter from Barosso. The only way to retain EU membership is to vote NO.
      Yes Movement: Oh yes we will!

      Question: Will we retain the monarchy
      Answer: Oh yes we will. (The Queen will always be the Queen of Scots even when she’s dead. In the same way as the one who got her head chopped off.)
      Better Together: God Bless the Queen and long may she purr!
      Yes Movement: Many voters ordinary and non-ordinary would prefer Scotland became a republic.
      SNP: Tough there will be no vote on the monarchy on our watch. That means never ‘cos we will be in power in an independent Scotland forever. God bless the Virgin Nicola.

      Question: Can we retain our British passport

      Answer: Yes you will be able to have dual nationality. See Ireland

      Better Together: You no you wont. The UK Gov is not prepared to pay all the British in Scotland a heating allowance nor do we want you Jocks working in England.

      Question: Is Scotland a country?
      Answer: Yes it is.
      Better Together: Oh no it isn’t. We have legal advice that state Scotland was extinguished in 1707 and became ‘Lesser England. Just ask David Mundell.
      Response from Yes Movement: What a cheek or something like that. I can’t actually remember. May it was something about fitba teams!

      Question: Will Spain veto our EU membership?
      Oh no it wont! Oh yes it will!

      and so on and so on!

    332. James Che. says:

      Andy Ellis.
      I did provide supporting evidence that the nation of Scotland was deliberately not asked to vote on joining the treaty of the union, and I will say it again just for you.

      IT IS ON THE UK PARLIAMENT SITE!

    333. Ottomanboi says:

      A poll Bute House may choose to ignore.
      https://archive.ph/MwiLg
      Those «beyond the pale» may not.

    334. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 10.22 am

      By ordinary, I mean not monomaniacal cranks, creepy stalkers, foul mouthed “cunt callers”, covidiots and other sundry conspiracy theorists. All of the above represent a vanishingly small percentage of “ordinary folk”, whether pro or anti independence. You never come across them in normal life, because they’re overwhelmingly low life anonymous trolls inhabiting the darker recesses of the internet.

      The Yes movement should canvass everyone. Even the basket of deplorables have the vote.

      How Scott and James vote s a matter for them. I’m happy to engage with some of what they say, and ignore screeds of other stuff, depending on the content or how bored I am with them. Doubtless they’ll live that, as will I.

      The more votes for independence the better. The only thing worse than one of the deplorables who votes for indy, is a deplorable who doesn’t vote for indy.

      Glad to clear that up for you. I know you find comprehension hard. I’d draw you a diagram if I thought you could see it through through spittle flecks on your screen.

    335. Ottomanboi says:

      BREEKS 10:53
      Just indulging in a bit of mischief….i agree, pigs may fly on the day!
      She serves a purpose, by her actions she is an accommodator not a warrior.

    336. James Che. says:

      It is also on the UK Parliament site that the Uk Parliament state,

      That Scotland’s Parliament was asked to close its official doors in Scotland, Before the Great British Parliament Could come into existence.

      So the source of the my information is supplied…….. The British Parliament

      However you seem to ignore what you cannot accept.

    337. Ruby says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      5 June, 2022 at 10:27 am

      Was Scotland ever a country in which it was a joy to be young?

      Strange question! My answer is a resounding YES! At least it was until the 80’s. You’ll need to ask someone younger than me what it was like for the young after that.

    338. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 11.05 am

      That’s not the issue James. You’re like one of those politicians who get’s asked a question, then answers the question they’d like to have been asked, not the question the interview actually posed.

      Nobody sane here and now cares or thinks it’s remotely relevant to our current circumstances that all ordinary Scots weren’t asked to vote on the Treaties of Union 300 years ago. 18th century Scotland wasn’t a modern democracy. It didn’t enfranchise everyone. Which part of that do you find hard to understand? It has no relevance to now.

    339. Andy Ellis says:

      So given the adherents of the “cunning plan” route to independence are quite vocal in here, by which I mean those advocating the bypassing of referendums or plebiscitary elections, I wonder what they and others thought of Craig Murray’s latest thoughts on the subject, how realistic they thought they were in general, and whether they agreed now was the time and ig they saw that actually happening?

      He ended his piece as follows:

      “The conundrum was perhaps solved for me last year by my friend Joseph who remarked “you may think you are a Burkean conservative, Craig, but actually you are a revolutionary vanguardist”. Which I discover is, in important respects, surprisingly much the same thing.

      Either way, it boils down to this. Leaders lead. Scotland needs to forget about referenda. It has elected a majority of pro-Independence representatives. They should declare Independence. This could be done by the Scottish Parliament, but I would much prefer a National Assembly to be called combining both MPs and MSPs. The National Assembly should declare Independence and apply to the United Nations for recognition.

      While that is pending, and at least six months after the declaration, a confirmatory plebiscite can be held under conditions which Scotland controls.”

      So….revolutionary vanguardism or plebiscitary elections folks…? Place your bets!

    340. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      The Yes movement should canvass everyone. Even the basket of deplorables have the vote.

      When do you intent to start canvassing their votes?

      Hot tip ‘Careful where you canvas’

      https://tinyurl.com/ys3htc6f

    341. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 11.13 pm

      One of us is ignoring things James, but it isn’t me. I’m not interested in reading your interminable posts regurgitating your personal amateur analysis of the Treaties of Union and how they prove – at least in your own mind – that the Treaties are void. I asked you for some actual peer reviewed analysis and evidence that anyone who actually knows what they are talking about with respect to constitutional history and constitutional law supports your views.

      There are plenty of subject matter experts in Scottish universities, and neutral places abroad. Have you asked any of them, or investigated their views?

    342. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ottomanboi, no matter how few they certainly seem to shout loudest.

    343. James Che. says:

      Ruby,

      A small correction if I may.
      scotland is still a country,

      Evidence,

      1: The UK Parliament recognise that the Scottish devolved governments powers and that of NS and SNP stop at the Scottish borders, other wise ole nick would be in Uk Parliament taking BJ’s job,
      Although it is not for want of trying on her behalf.

      2: [ The Scottish Government ] was extinguished in 1707 according to The British Parliament site.

    344. Robert Hughes says:

      Otto & Breeks

      Coincidentally , I had just read R McAlpine’s latest before I read both of yours above .

      If you have also read it , you’ll see just how fckn awful the much-trumpeted SNIB is panning-out .

      That acronym is the only accurate thing about it – economic good sense and genuine public interest have been snibbed out.

      Serving mostly as conduit for corporate interests and lucrative remunerations for the small , incestuous cast of mutual glad-handing beneficiaries and their already wealthy clients . In short , it’s another Sturgeon/NSNP disaster zone , doing the precise opposite of what it was supposed to do . Like the human disaster zone herself ; so …..

      In the face of such economic illiteracy and deeply compromised
      *mission statements * many young Scots will no doubt be obliged to continue taking the high road South to find better opportunities – except maybe those employed in the Independence Industry and it’s generously funded * Identity * sub-genres .

      Her popularity is a complete mystery to me too Breeks – the triumph of mediocrity over genuine depth of feeling and intellect , a tedious one-trick-pony ( Tories are bad , doncha know ? ) , a ( fair ) weather vain ( sic ) always pointing in the same direction – towards herself ; other than when there’s any flak to dodge , in which case it flails wildly in every direction except her own

    345. Saffron Robe says:

      Whilst the recent mass shootings in the US are undoubtedly tragic, I can’t help feeling that events are being manipulated by the Biden administration to disarm the American people. Ordinarily I would be all for gun control if done for the right reasons, but it would seem to me that it is not so easy to usher in the NWO’s wet dream of a totalitarian technocracy, such as enforced “vaccinations”, when faced with an armed population. Those who adhere to the Second Amendment are also conveniently more likely to be Republicans/Trump supporters. It is, of course, highly ironic that the Biden administration is attempting to disarm its own citizens whilst arming a foreign nation, thousands of miles away on another continent, to the hilt.

      I watched the documentary “Unlawful Killing” about Diana Spencer’s death which Confused kindly posted a link to. Amongst a lot of interesting information about the machinations of the English monarchy, particularly the oath of allegiance that everyone has to take resulting in an inherent bias which reminded me of MSPs, I thought the following quote from Prince Philip was quite revealing: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation”. A window into how the ruling elite really think?

      Another interesting article I came across was the case of a woman who had been raped by a “transwoman”. The BBC felt the Orwellian need to change the victim’s words to include the perpetrator’s preferred pronouns so as not to cause offence by “misgendering” the perpetrator! Apart, I should think, from the legal issues around deliberately misquoting someone, the resultant butchering of language and grammar results in nothing but gobbledygook! I mean, what would happen if I said my preferred pronouns were “Up” and “Yours”?!

      Original statement:

      “He threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with him. I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so he was a ‘woman’ even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout, so I agreed to go home with him. He used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing his penis and raped me.”

      BBC’s altered statement:

      “[They] threatened to out me as a terf and risk my job if I refused to sleep with [them]. I was too young to argue and had been brainwashed by queer theory so [they were] a ‘woman’ even if every fibre of my being was screaming throughout so I agreed to go home with [them]. [They] used physical force when I changed my mind upon seeing [their] penis and raped me.”

      (www.infowars.com/posts/report-bbc-changed-victims-statement-so-as-not-to-misgender-her-trans-rapist/)

    346. Effigy says:

      Hungary unexpectedly beat England in a football tournament yesterday.

      Don’t worry it doesn’t count as it seems the English players were fatigued, it was too hot,
      there should have been no fans in the stadium as they are being sanctioned so 30,000 Hungarian kids should not have been there and Oh we didn’t think it was a penalty the ref gave them.

      How could God allow this to happen to his chosen race an on his right hand jubilee Queen’s platinum weekend.

      There are days when I think God might not be English.

    347. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourett’es Ruby 10.29 am

      “When do you intent (sic) to start canvassing their votes?”

      Perhaps when there’ an election if I’ve decided to participate in canvassing Ruby. I doubt there’s much point when there isn’t an election.

      In the last elections the only party to canvas personally in my area were the LD’s: I had the dubious pleasure of having Christine Jardine at my door, and the considerable pleasure of telling her that her party would be towards the bottom of my list. Interestingly in the previous election the LD’s were again the only ones to canvas in person, that time it was Alex Cole Hamilton.

    348. James Che. says:

      Andy,

      Are you actually saying the UK Parliament are Stupid for 300 years,
      That they have no one intelligent to have analysed any of what they have stated on their site.
      No think tanks and peer reviews have been done in the Great British Parliament of the Uk.
      And you don’t think the UK Parliament know what they are talking about with regards the 300 year old treaty of the parliaments union.

      I referred you to the source of the information, for you to have a look yourself.
      Just so you can judge for yourself they are not words or thoughts from my perspective that I Had thought up.
      But a quote from the The Parliament whom run Britain.

      Your like one of those politicians, whom get asked a question, then answers the question that they would like to have been asked.
      You fit the glove snugly

      You are ignoring what the British Parliament peers AND Lords ( may I add ) of How the Great British Parliament came into existence.

      I am having the time of my life in with this conversation with you.

    349. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ottomanboi , absolutely superb.

    350. Robert Hughes says:

      Saffron Robe @ 11.54

      Excellent post SF . All of it , but that section about the BBC’s collusion in the utterly ridiculous * correct * pronoun etiquette says it all about the capture of once credible institutions by the Gender Cultists . I read it edited-out the booing Johnson received entering St Pauls for the orgy of sycophancy ceremony ; attended of course by Scotland’s very own , very Odd Couple . The * Beard * herself looking Pretty ‘kin * Fancy * In Pink . Presumably to make the boys turn to drink

    351. Ottomanboi says:

      RUBY 11:17
      Yeah agree, is strange as needs an awareness of being young and its potential. I’m classed as young but very rarely am i aware of it as a stage in life which has «advantages».
      Older people will remind you though.

      «Bliss it was to be alive,
      but to be young was very heaven»
      William Wordsworth

      Alas poor William was subsequently sickened by the turn revolutionary France took.
      Politicians and their capacity to kill the «bliss».

    352. John Main says:

      @ Saffron Robe says:5 June, 2022 at 11:54 am

      “I thought the following quote from Prince Philip was quite revealing: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation”. A window into how the ruling elite really think?”

      A window into how many of us plebs think also. At least, those of us plebs who can actually think.

      It was Asimov in the 1980s who first asked: What benefit accrues to any individual by having more people in the world?

      After a certain number is reached, the answer is clearly no benefit whatsoever. Quite the opposite. Every additional person reduces the opportunities and resources, the space and the freedom, for those who are here already. It’s a finite world – go figure.

      And what is that certain number? Around a billion, which means we are well on course for around 9 billion excess people. With all of the arguably insurmountable problems many of us can clearly see. Anybody who thinks that is a circumstance that cannot be questioned really is incapable of rational thought.

      Soz saffron.

    353. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      5 June, 2022 at 12:12 pm

      @Tourett’es Ruby 10.29 am

      “When do you intent (sic) to start canvassing their votes?”

      Perhaps when there’ an election if I’ve decided to participate in canvassing Ruby. I doubt there’s much point when there isn’t an election.

      I though the whole point of posting on Wings was to win support for independence.

      Why do you post of Wings?

      No idea what your shit about only LDs cavassing in your area is about. Is it a dig a the lazy Alba membership who are not prepared to get off their fat arse and go out canvassing in their own backyard?
      Maybe you expected Alex Salmond to knock your door.

    354. James Che. says:

      A quick analyses.

      You put down the uk parliament site as stupid.

      you do not take the UK parliament as Speaking the truth on the treaty.

      You defend America relentlessly on here.

      You occasionally have m o d contracts.

      You adamantly wish to lead the direction of Scotland on its independence route.

      You quote Hilary Clin… on a regular basis.

      You do not agree with most of the grassroots independence movement on here, and are derogatory to nearly all of them.

      You encourage hate and instigate excitement to take sides ( when we are neutral ) for escalation to a bigger war with Russia.

      You seem not to be in favour of the UK parliament nor in favour with the Scottish grassroots movement.

      You make us more and more curious, who you are, and what you are doing here , trying to direct and take control of the Yes movement for an independent Scotland.

      Maybe you are a Russian agent. Pretending to work for America.

    355. James Che. says:

      Saffron Robe.

      Indeed it makes you wonder why the disarmament of america,

      While you voluntary pull out soldiers from another country and leave all your tanks and weapons behind.

      Meanwhile provide another country with billions of dollars and pound sterling to send ammo to its citizens and army.

      Well said.

    356. James Che. says:

      I wonder if there are 9 billion politicians and elites plus families around the Globe.
      Good solution.

    357. Ruby says:

      Prince Phillip been watching Ricky Gervais

      https://tinyurl.com/23879p3y

    358. Scott says:

      John Main says:
      5 June, 2022 at 12:38 pm

      @ Saffron Robe says:5 June, 2022 at 11:54 am

      “I thought the following quote from Prince Philip was quite revealing: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation”. A window into how the ruling elite really think?”

      A window into how many of us plebs think also. At least, those of us plebs who can actually think.

      If nutters like you want fewer people in the world, why are you and them still alive?

    359. Ruby says:

      Ricky Gervais has me in stitches! He’s hilarious!

      Anyone else like Ricky want to ask God why he made chocolate kill dogs?

      That was from ‘A Weirdo Trolled Ricky Gervais But Truly Missed the Point’

      On another clip from Supernatural.
      Gervais offers his reasoning for trans jokes, saying, “Full disclosure: In real life of course I support trans rights. I support all human rights, and trans rights are human rights. Live your best life. Use your preferred pronouns. Be the gender that you feel that you are. But meet me halfway, ladies: Lose the cock. That’s all I’m saying.

      A simple solution from Richy Gervais to problematic trans issues!
      ‘The Virgin Nicola’ & ‘Starmer’ would have a simple answer to the question. ‘What is a woman?”

      PS For James Che – Re Scotland being a country or not.

      Take it up with ‘James Crawford, Whewell Professor of International Law at Cambridge and Alan Boyle, Professor of Public International Law at Edinburgh’ they got paid an undisclosed sum (undisclosed = megabucks ) of taxpayers money to tell us that ‘Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 and became Lesser England.

      Derek Bateman wrote a brilliant article called ‘An Auld Sang Gang Wrang’ in March 2014 about this legal advice. Can’t find it on the internet which is a shame as it’s well worth reading.

    360. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      A window into how many of us plebs think also. At least, those of us plebs who can actually think.

      It was Asimov in the 1980s who first asked: What benefit accrues to any individual by having more people in the world?

      This pleb is thinking about Scotland and how come we don’t have an over population problem just the opposite

      Has Prince Charles addressed this Scottish problem or does he like Scotland the way it is?

    361. Chas says:

      A quick skip through the comments again. Unfortunately I find that the majority are really not worth reading.
      A week or so ago I tried to steer the ‘conversation’ towards what matters in the quest for an Independent Scotland-Money. A few posters responded with varying degrees of accuracy but it seems to most that economics/finance do not matter. All will simply be fine!! Let’s all ignore the performance of the Scottish Government to date.
      Instead the usual screeds about 300 year old treaties, Sovereignty and associated crap. The question has been asked several times ‘What would happen if the Treaty was rescinded tomorrow? What happens next’? As far as I can see, nobody has even attempted to answer this question. Why?
      Plenty of comments about unfair the 300 year old Treaty is amongst the feeble minded but no way forward suggested.
      Have any of them heard of the word ‘Prescription’? I don’t mean when they go to the chemist’s for their anti delirium dugs, which are not working by the way, but the time that elapses before perceived ‘wrongs’ can be ‘righted’ in Court. 300 years+ sounds an awful long time!
      No doubt the usual dreamers, the happy clappy club and the Bonnie Purple Heather Brigade will be along shortly to point out the error of my ways.
      Imagine being invited to a Party and the guest list included Scum 1 (RoS) James Che, Breeks, Ruby, Scott, Robbo etc etc. I think I would prefer to stick forks in my eyes.

    362. Ruby says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      5 June, 2022 at 12:30 pm

      RUBY 11:17
      Yeah agree, is strange as needs an awareness of being young and its potential. I’m classed as young but very rarely am i aware of it as a stage in life which has «advantages».
      Older people will remind you though.

      That is so sad! Is there anyway posters on Wings can help you?

      You might benefit from being made aware of the disadvantages of being old.

      https://tinyurl.com/3yhrj4vh

      Don’t worry be happy!

    363. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      5 June, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      A quick skip through the comments again. Unfortunately I find that the majority are really not worth reading.

      Right back at you Chas. I didn’t get past your first paragraph!

    364. Scott says:

      Chas says:
      5 June, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      A quick skip through the comments again. Unfortunately I find that the majority are really not worth reading.

      Imagine being invited to a Party and the guest list included Scum 1 (RoS) James Che, Breeks, Ruby, Scott, Robbo etc etc.

      What are the chances that Chas, Ellis & Main, having all used ‘etc etc’ in this thread, are completely different people?

    365. Chas says:

      I don’t think you can ever fully recover from BSE Ruby. How unlucky are you?

    366. Scott says:

      Testing

      Is roasters a banned word, haven’t seen it for a while?

    367. Chas says:

      Etc Etc is a short way of condensing the crap that posters like you continually produce Scott. Ellis, Main and myself are three , of the few posters on here, who are realistic and do not see the world through tartan tinted spectacles. Try taking yours off occasionally!

    368. Ruby says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      5 June, 2022 at 12:30 pm

      «Bliss it was to be alive,
      but to be young was very heaven»
      William Wordsworth

      Alas poor William was subsequently sickened by the turn revolutionary France took.
      Politicians and their capacity to kill the «bliss».

      I’m confused by this. Would William Wordsworth have preferred there had been no French revolution? Was his gripe about the French revolution killing the ‘bliss’ about it disrupting the supply of opium?

    369. Scott says:

      Chas says:
      5 June, 2022 at 3:09 pm

      Etc Etc is a short way of condensing

      Et cetera doesn’t need repeating, so it is a long way of condensing.

      We see you, Ellis.

    370. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Mention of money…

      Maybe I’m being too simplistic so feel free to critique.

      Around £65 Billion transfers from Scotland to the UK Treasury annually. Holyrood gets back around £35 Billion annually.

      If Scotland were independent, what would that reclaimed £30 Billion have to be spent on?

    371. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      5 June, 2022 at 3:03 pm

      I don’t think you can ever fully recover from BSE Ruby. How unlucky are you?

      So unlucky! I’m going through the menopause, suffering from Long BSE & fuckity fuckity fuck fuck fuck fuck cunt bastard feck erse drink drink drink knickers Jacobs Creek Chardonay 1991 I’ve also got Tourettes!

      Never mind!
      Gotta laugh eh?

      https://tinyurl.com/5n8y6465

    372. James Che. says:

      It is becoming more than obvious that a certain group do not want the treaty of a union discussed.

      The disconnect in their brains between the purpose of the Yes movement for an independent Scotland and what is supposedly stopping an independent Scotland happening is…..

      That old treaty union.

      So lets get this correct.

      They are suggesting ( in their own ) way for Scotland to become independent from the treaty of the union,
      But We the Yes for Scotland must not discuss the treaty of the union,

      Shhuisshh everyone while we try work their methods of logic out.

      Gee whizz as the boys comics used to say.

    373. Ruby says:

      Chas says:
      5 June, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      Have any of them heard of the word ‘Prescription’?

      Yes I have but it’s pretty useless when the pharmacy has run out of HRT due to folk like yourself hogging it just so you can increase the size of your man boobs and call yourself Chastitty

    374. Chas says:

      Brian Doonthetoon

      Being simplistic seems to come easy to you.
      It’s strange that you know exactly how much the UK Treasury receives from Scotland annually yet nobody seems capable, especially the Scottish Government, to produce projected financials for an Independent Scotland!
      Maybe you could do the necessary?

      James Che

      Is that supposed to make sense? Maybe it does to the feeble minded?

      Ruby

      There is really not a lot going for you is there? A low IQ as well………….. as your latest post clearly indicates

    375. Republicofscotland says:

      “Ellis, Main and myself are three , of the few posters on here, who are realistic and do not see the world through tartan tinted spectacles”

      No you lot see the world through Butchers Apron tinted glasses, you’d have gotten your jollies off this weekend with all the Butchers Aprons about.

    376. Ruby says:

      James Che. says:
      5 June, 2022 at 3:40 pm

      It is becoming more than obvious that a certain group do not want the treaty of a union discussed.

      Not sure if I’m happy or unhappy about that James.
      I think I’m happy.

      Don’t worry that’s probably just me I’m sure there are loads of others who are a lot less jaded than I am.

      This is the sort of pantomime shit we had to put up with in 2014

      https://archive.ph/0F7sq
      SCOTLAND was “extinguished” as a state by the Treaty of Union in 1707

      Oh yes it was!

      https://archive.ph/a3cDa
      Paul Scott: No, Scotland was not ‘extinguished’ in 1707

      Oh no it wasn’t!

      Plenty more where they came from if you want to read discussions about ‘The Treaty of the Union’ that took place prior to the 2014 IndyRef.

    377. Ottomanboi says:

      DOROTHY DEVINE 11:39
      Politicians are so desperate to grow their constituency even a whisper, a «non-threatening» one, gets attention. Identitarianism may be societally decomposing but short term it serves those who exploit it. Until those chickens, become hideous hydra, return to feed.

    378. Ruby says:

      March 26, 2014
      An Auld Sang Gang Wrang

      “Then Dauvit Broun, also of Glasgow University: ‘The UK = Scotland + England. Take away Scotland, and there can be no more UK. I have not heard anyone explain why this should not be the case… ‘Britishness’ is not the same north and south of the border. For us, including the main currents of Scottish unionist thought and sentiment in the past, Britain was a partnership between Scotland and England. For the mainstream in England, though, it was (and is) assumed to be England in another form. It is assumed that, indeed, the English parliament continued (and with it the peculiarly English doctrine of the sovereignty of parliament). And, of course, we need look no further than the monarch’s numeral to see how deeply embedded this idea is: she is the first Queen Elizabeth of the United Kingdom of Britain, but persists in being Elizabeth II.’ He ends: ‘I fear that this mode of thinking about Britain among the English mainstream is so deeply embedded that they take it completely for granted. (It is, presumably, why England is in the remarkable position of being the only democratic nation with a football team but no parliament of their own–a statement they would not recognise because they regard Westminster as ‘their’ parliament, despite the third article of the Treaty of Union.)

      There is a lesson in here for the Better Together strategists and they just don’t get it. Yes has been telling them since the start and they just don’t get it. The voters are now telling them and they just don’t get it. They need to get their knuckles off the ground and instead of paying lip service to optimism, actually try to find some. Here’s a suggestion. Reject the legal advice. Say it was a mistake. Say the government is not convinced it’s correct and it was insulting to say Scotland ceased to exist. Why? Because to say so is to deny the very thing they’re fighting for – the Union. I talk about what I call principled Unionism which works only if you accept your country is in voluntary partnership with England. Remove that concept and we become, as the lawyers indicate, little more than an adjunct to England. Not even a Unionist who claims to love Scotland can vote for that. The British might lose this Union because they failed to stand up for it.”

      The above is part of Derek Bateman’s article March 26, 2014 ‘An Auld Sang Gang Wrang’

      My bold re the Queen of England just ‘cos Jubilee.

      Anyone got a archived link to this article which appeared on Derek Bateman’s old blog?

    379. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 12.45 pm

      “Why do you post of (sic) Wings?”

      Mostly to serve as an antidote to the terminally dull like yourself and to demonstrate to alert readers and others who still visit that there are still some adults in the room.

      “No idea what your shit about only LDs cavassing in your area is about.”

      Because the fact many folk seldom if ever get directly canvassed seemed relevant. I know you have trouble following lines of argument, but others who are tuning in probably have attention spans longer than yours do Ruby. I doubt Alex was out canvassing in Edinburgh Central, but he’d have had a warm reception here if he had, unlike Christine Jardine.

    380. Andy Ellis says:

      @Chas 2.49 pm

      “Imagine being invited to a Party and the guest list included Scum 1 (RoS) James Che, Breeks, Ruby, Scott, Robbo etc etc. I think I would prefer to stick forks in my eyes.”

      Less of a party more of an intervention or a meeting for the 12 step programme I’d have said.

    381. Andy Ellis says:

      @James Che 3.40 pm

      Nobody is stopping you discussing it though are they? Indeed it’s virtually all you do at considerable length, all day, every day, giving us all the “benefit” of your amateur hour analysis of things you don’t really understand and lack the wit and the erudition to adequately explain even if you did understand them.

      It’s not the treaties that are stopping independence James, it’s Scottish voters not having the balls to put an X on a ballot paper. It wouldn’t matter if the treaties had never existed, or if they said unequivocally that we were never allowed independence under any circumstances. This is 2022 not 1707. All Scots really need to do to achieve independence is what folk in a lots of other countries with far fewer advantages than us have done.

    382. Effigy says:

      Can’t believe my eyes!

      You can never get a Scotland international on So called Scottish Television or
      BBC England with a Scottish map logo on it.

      You have to pay for premium channels if you want to watch it.
      As I had to when watching us play Ukraine earlier this week.

      Today, live on STV FOC Wales Vs Ukraine???

      FFFS

    383. twathater says:

      @ Breeks 3.58am Dorothy Devine and Robert Hughes , what is most disturbing about the comments BTL on breeks link is that they appear to be a lot from females either supporting or excusing the hijacking of their sport
      It is the refusal of a vast amount of females to explore and investigate what this threat to their safety and freedoms will eventually lead to by disturbed perverts and deviants taking legal advantage and physical advantage over their stupidity and belief that they are being NICE

      The FALLACY that these people are harmless and ONLY seeking equality should be cancelled by the amount of threats and disturbing posts and photographs by them available throughout the internet

    384. Breeks says:


      Saffron Robe says:
      5 June, 2022 at 11:54 am

      Whilst the recent mass shootings in the US are undoubtedly tragic, I can’t help feeling that events are being manipulated by the Biden administration to disarm the American people…

      I won’t dwell on the subject, because I can take a hint on taboo topics, but the USA could be heading for different trouble in the months ahead.

      You can apparently buy a $175k Javelin missile on the Dark Web for $30k, no prizes for guessing where it came from, (and I’m gonna guess you might get a free complimentary pair of handcuffs thrown in when taking delivery), but let’s just say right wing extremists and anarchist nut jobs with assault rifles could be so very “last year” darling…

      [Lol. “Anarchist” there nearly typo’d to “antichrist” and I was very close to letting it ride. 😉 ]

    385. John Main says:

      @Repo 4:23

      Wrong again. No butcher’s aprons round my neck of the woods.

      What you just don’t get, is that some of us want a Scotland that is run by mature, rational, pragmatic, adults. With policies to suit.

      And as you so frequently demonstrate, that rules you and your kind of ideas out.

    386. James Che. says:

      So What are you scared of. Why whinge about it, pass on by.

      But when I repeat the same conversation regards the treaty of the union over and over?

      This is my thoughts on that.
      I suggest you and your small group are scared that Scots will suddenly realise they are not in the treaty of the union by two default positions of the old English parliament

      And say, hold on a minute James Che was correct. When did we ever vote to join the treaty of the union,

      And then the Scots wont wait and follow you to the long hard manipulated carrot dangling plebisite election,
      To vote for independence they already have,

      Why try turn the Scottish people away from studying the details, or finding the in and outs of the truth for them selfs.
      What purpose do you and your group have for trying to deflect other people’s attentions away from the treaty of the union.

      You and your small group could just scroll on by if it is not important

      Let the Scots decide wether the actual treaty of the union was wool pull over their eyes of all Scots for 300 years.

      And you never comment by avoidence tactics when the Scots were invited to join the treaty of the union,

      You have a problem in claiming in 1707 that England was not democratic in those days.

      The English Parliament were well aware of democracy, they discussed given the Scots a vote in 1707,
      but decided against given Scots a vote because they would probably vote againt the treaty.

      UK Parliament site quoted as source.

    387. Mark Boyle says:

      Saffron Robe says: 5 June, 2022 at 11:54 am

      Amongst a lot of interesting information about the machinations of the English monarchy, particularly the oath of allegiance that everyone has to take resulting in an inherent bias which reminded me of MSPs, I thought the following quote from Prince Philip was quite revealing: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation”. A window into how the ruling elite really think?

      Always beware Saffron of those posting quotes without giving you their sources, it usually means the context is different to what they want you to believe it is.

      This quote comes from the forward to upper class twit Fleur Cowles’ book “People As Animals” (1986: ISBN 9780688061500), written to raise money for the World Wildlife Fund, which Prince Phillip was (with zero hint of irony) the patron of.

      What Phillip actually said was:

      “I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist… I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus, but that is perhaps going too far.”

      It may well be that AIDS was on his mind – at that time running riot and which was being blamed in academic circles as having jumped from certain species of African monkeys whose habits were being increasingly encroached upon by human deforestation – the world press of course were more interested in labelling it a “gay plague” since that sold more papers than boring old environmentalism.

    388. Ruby says:

      twathater says:
      5 June, 2022 at 5:17 pm

      @ Breeks 3.58am Dorothy Devine and Robert Hughes , what is most disturbing about the comments BTL on breeks link is that they appear to be a lot from females either supporting or excusing the hijacking of their sport

      I missed that twathater. How would you know if a btl comment was from a woman or a transwoman?

      I agree there are a lot of woman (non men woman) who support this ie 99% of SNP female politicians & that is ideed very disturbing.

    389. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      In the last elections the only party to canvas personally in my area were the LD’s: I had the dubious pleasure of having Christine Jardine at my door, and the considerable pleasure of telling her that her party would be towards the bottom of my list. Interestingly in the previous election the LD’s were again the only ones to canvas in person, that time it was Alex Cole Hamilton.

      Seriously? Were these two canvassing in Central Edinburgh?

    390. John Main says:

      @Ruby 3:33

      Jacobs Creek Chardonnay 1991?

      Think I see your problem right there, Ruby. That Chardonnay will be absolutely bogging by now.

      It doesn’t keep much longer than 5 years for the cheap stuff, maybes 10 max for the finest.

      My advice, open and neck as soon as you have it chilled down to taste.

      Face it Ruby, you’re not getting any younger. Don’t leave good wine lying around for your heirs to enjoy. The bastards can buy their own.

    391. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      Ruby posts all of the above in her signature “shouty” text, perhaps her not-so-subtle way of telling us that her posts are more important than everybody elses.

      I’m thinking that pro-Indy canvassers on the doorsteps should get issued little cards with “We don’t know” printed on them.

      Could you not come up with something better than a complaint about’shouty’ text what ever that is. You should get Chastitty to help you with your posts. He/she could perhaps check his/her/they/them’s medical dictionary for you. Just avoid anything to do with the an_us, the rec_tum, or ski_ing.

      What pro-Indy canvassers on the doorstep are you talking about? Nobody get canvassed directly any more or at least that’s your Missionary Man’s position.

    392. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      5 June, 2022 at 8:05 pm

      @Ruby 3:33

      Jacobs Creek Chardonnay 1991?

      Think I see your problem right there, Ruby. That Chardonnay will be absolutely bogging by now.

      SIGH! IT WAS A JOKE!

      https://tinyurl.com/yerud6xf

      JOKE – DEFINITION
      A THING THAT SOMEONE SAYS TO CAUSE AMUSEMENT OR LAUGHTER

      HAPPY TO HELP!

    393. John Main says:

      Hey Ruby

      None of my posts have been moderated. I don’t have to use obscure combinations of underscores to post any of the words I want to use.

      Maybes you could learn something from me. 🙂

      Not forgetting Andy, Mark & Chas. Between us, we just about have the monopoly on sanity and reason here.

    394. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      5 June, 2022 at 8:57 pm

      Hey Ruby

      None of my posts have been moderated. I don’t have to use obscure combinations of underscores to post any of the words I want to use.

      Maybes you could learn something from me. ?

      Not forgetting Andy, Mark & Chas. Between us, we just about have the monopoly on sanity and reason here.

      Well that’s bloody great news it’s means you are no longer posting 24/7 about Uk_raine, Ru_ssia or Put_ins Poodles.

      Your Missionary Man wasn’t so lucky. He was spotted greetin’ to the Rev on Gettr about being moderated.

      How do you know you Andy, Mark & Chas are sane?

      https://tinyurl.com/22p3nhez

    395. Republicofscotland says:

      So Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots and her husband attended the Jubilee bollocks both sat just feet away from the foreign parasitic royals, and they looked completely at ease in their surroundings.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUcGf-KWIAEQ6Sn?format=jpg&name=large

      We’re going nowhere as long as this treacherous b*stard is FM.

      Anyway thank f*ck this jubilee shite is just about over its been a weekend to forget.

    396. Republicofscotland says:

      “Wrong again. No butcher’s aprons round my neck of the woods.”

      Main @6.27pm.

      You’re on cloud cuckoo land Main, there’s no f*ckin sense nevermind Butcher Aprons there.

    397. sarah says:

      O/T: who is the victim of the latest political trial this month?

      Ian Lawson talked about the Mark Hirst, Alex Salmond and Craig Murray cases in his speech this weekend [published on Yours for Scotland blog] and says there is another similar case this month. Apparently it has come about through one of the Alphabet women complaining, again.

      Any ideas anyone? Or can’t we be told due to the anonymity order?

    398. Big Jock says:

      If you read the Twitter comments on Nicola’s attendance at Buntys tea party in London. The loyalists continually use the words ‘ showing respect’ as the excuse for her sitting next to the royal box.

      Respect for what exactly? I have no respect for the parasitic Saxe-Cobergs. They arent even the true bloodline of the Royal family. They are a modern invention, even their surname is invented.

      There were at least 30 catholic Stuarts in line before George of Hanover.

      That aside, they also represent the very essence of English class driven society. For an SNP leader to attend, to laugh and joke and to take selfies , is beyond the pale.

      I don’t think Nicola gives a fig about how it looks or why she is even there. She is just lining herself up for a job once she resigns in the next 2 years.

      This is the SNP that refuse to recognise the House of Lords and the honours system.Yet she loves and respects the very head of the Britis state.

      We are truly fecked!

    399. twathater says:

      The usual britnat response used repeatedly by fake indy supporters and closet unionists DESPITE proof being available

      “it’s Scottish voters not having the balls to put an X on a ballot paper” BOLLOX

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

      The biggest study yet of how Scotland made its historic decision on September 18 has found that the votes of people born outside Scotland were crucial to the result.

      While 52.7 per cent of NATIVE -BORN Scots voted Yes, a massive 72.1 per cent of voters from England, Wales or Northern Ireland backed the Union.

      Political scientist Professor Ailsa Henderson, who wrote the study, told the Record it showed the importance of “Britishness” among voters born elsewhere in the UK in deciding the result.

      She said: “Scottish-born people were more likely to vote Yes and those born outside Scotland were more likely to vote No.

      “But the least sympathetic to Yes were the people born in the UK, but outside Scotland.

      BUT the fake indy supporters go NA,NA,NA I can’t hear you

    400. Breeks says:


      Republicofscotland says:
      5 June, 2022 at 10:01 pm

      We’re going nowhere as long as this treacherous b*stard is FM.

      Anyway thank f*ck this jubilee shite is just about over its been a weekend to forget.

      Agree and disagree.

      Unpalatable though it is, I don’t think the Union is strengthened by this garbage, quite the reverse. Barra has a new folk hero in their “tartan pimpernel” Union Jack stealer. Kinda reminded me of the phantom Roll Royce burner on Eigg a few years ago. I seem to recall Claypots Castle in Dundee had it’s Union Jack swiped years ago… Local protests maybe, but there’s such a news blackout surrounding such stories, you wonder whether it’s the tip of an iceberg.

      The various pictures taken of tumbleweed gatherings at Union bonfires is compelling testimony that Unionism is externally based astroturfing with no grassroots support. Even those who support it don’t want to be seen supporting it.

      It also occurs to me that these flags will be seen again when the inevitable happens, and again when they try to generate enthusiasm for the coronation of King Big Lugs. No doubt any Scottish criticism of flags at a funeral will be jumped upon as if we’re cannibals, but that’s a double edged sword, if or when the funeral is politicised and cheapened as a crass flag fest.

      I suspect however King Charles the Last will be as popular in Scotland as the COVID he thoughtfully brought us as a generous gift to all.

      The Royals bring to public relations what Morris dancers bring to a festival of dance. They really don’t even seem to enjoy it even amongst themselves. I know a couple of English guys quite proud to be English, but mention Morris dancing and there’s quite an English cringe about it.

      Every time I see or hear anything about the Red Arrows, from a perspective of liking the Red Arrows once upon a time, to now thinking the Red Arrows are the wankers who wouldn’t trail blue and white smoke for Scotland. Fk the Red Arrows forevermore. They’re obviously lying when the call what they do entertainment.

      I remember too being at a wedding reception with a Scots Groom and English bride, and cynicism of the English towards the “horrors” of fiddle music and Ceilidh band nearly prompted an international incident… “we want the disco!” But you can’t fake having fun, and by the end of the night, there were English lads and lasses tapping their heels to everything and dancing reels on tables. Disco? Fk me, there was a disco? I thought that just the band having a rest.

    401. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/4EuqZ

      Church of Scotland backs removal of medical exam for trans gender certificate

      “Ending the medical diagnosis will reduce stress and have psychological benefit for individuals applying. It will make things easier such as getting married or having a death recorded respectfully.”

      https://archive.ph/BebUE

      Church of Scotland to allow same-sex marriages

      I had to check the Church of Scotland stance on gay marriage and it turns out they have recently decided it’s OK. Obviously it would have been very tricky for them to back trans weddings and not same sex weddings.

      Not a single word about how this might affect womens rights.

    402. Ruby says:

      sarah says:
      5 June, 2022 at 10:26 pm

      O/T: who is the victim of the latest political trial this month?


      Could it have anything to do with this?

      https://archive.ph/z6pIg

      Anyone noticed similarities between the Alex Salmond case & the Depp/Herd case?

      ie

      Depp still being considered guilty by some even if jury did not believe a single one of Herd’s claims.

      There is talk of Herd going to jail over perury claims.

    403. Ruby says:

      Anyone know anything about the Church of Scotland’s baptisms?
      Are they gender neutral?
      If not they might want to have a re-think about their cermony.

      https://archive.ph/VCoPg

      “Church of Scotland sees plunge in baptisms, but humanist ceremonies on the rise”

      “Baptisms by the Church of Scotland have fallen by nearly two thirds over the past 12 years”

      Is all the new thinking about getting the numbers ups?

    404. Ruby says:

      Anyone got any ideas why God decided chocolate should kill dogs?

    405. Ruby says:

      sarah says:
      5 June, 2022 at 10:26 pm

      O/T: who is the victim of the latest political trial this month?

      Meant to add this to my earlier post.

      Why is this all so very hush hush?
      If the trail is taking place this month you would have thought we would have heard about by now. Another injunction perhaps?

    406. Dan says:

      @ Ruby 8.28am

      Ach, that’s probably jist payback for dugs shiting on the pavement and or playing parks.
      If you’ve ever had to try to balance yourself on one leg whilst scraping stinking mutt jobbie out of the treads of your shoe with a twig, or won a football back from an opponent in an amazing slide tackle only to find your leg and shorts smeared in pooch pooh, you be fully supportive of the lord’s position on this matter.

    407. Andy Ellis says:

      @twatbynametwatbynature 1.29am

      “BUT the fake indy supporters go NA,NA,NA I can’t hear you”

      Those who disagree with your nativist blut und boden rantings aren’t fake indy supporters though, they’re the vast majority of the movement.

      We do hear you, and see you, which is why we’ll keep pointing and laughing at your regressive narrative. We’ll keep explaining that we don’t want to live in the kind of Scotland that thinks it’s OK to disenfranchise 20% of Scots because they aren’t ethnically pure enough for you.

      None of the arguments originally posted by Rev Stu last year have changed. None of them have been refuted. That’s why it triggers the nativists when people who still believe in civic nationalism challenge their attempts to move the goalposts using Stu Campbell’s arguments: deep down they know that he’s right about that, just like he’s been proven right on so many other things before.

      What nativists are proposing isn’t just morally wrong, it’s politically self defeating. The thing is, they don’t care: they’d sooner loose again by pissing civic nationalists off than just rise to the challenge and make better arguments which convinced more people and fashioned a majority out of of the >80% of voters born in Scotland and the pro-independence New Scots they are so keen to disenfranchise.

      The fact that regressive nativists have to characterise those who disagree with them as”fake indy supporters” tells us all we need to know about them and their motivations. It’s the same kind of othering tactic used by yoon and britnats in the run up to indyref1. Extremists and proponents of regressive politics just can’t help themselves.

    408. Mark Boyle says:

      twathater says: 6 June, 2022 at 1:29 am

      “it’s Scottish voters not having the balls to put an X on a ballot paper” BOLLOX

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

      The biggest study yet of how Scotland made its historic decision on September 18 has found that the votes of people born outside Scotland were crucial to the result.

      While 52.7 per cent of NATIVE -BORN Scots voted Yes, a massive 72.1 per cent of voters from England, Wales or Northern Ireland backed the Union.

      Quite aside from you getting your facts from the Daily Record, they only accounted for 8% of the total vote.

      Furthermore, a second survey of the vote later that year by the same people – the Scottish Referendum Study – clearly showed that women and the under 25 vote proved the decisive factor.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-34283948

      4.3 million were on the electoral register at that time. Of those, 3,619,915 voted.

      That leaves about 680 000 who could have swung the vote either way, over double the 300 000 you want to scapegoat, and all the writing in capital letters like a Socialist Workers Party moron can’t cover up that fact.

      That’s before we even get onto how feeble 53% of native born Scots voting yes was anyway when 19% were living in poverty and the top 10% of the population in Scotland had 24% more income in 2014-17 than the bottom 40% combined.

      [source: https://www.gov.scot/publications/poverty-income-inequality-scotland-2014-17%5D

      Instead of going down the Irish road of blaming everyone but themselves when things go tits up, time to accept that they voted for the Union Jack because “I’m Alright Jack” has always had more currency up here than down south – so long as they’re okay, screw the rest.

      Until that mindset is addressed and overcome, you can whistle before there’s ever going to be a successful Scottish independence referendum, no matter how much you “ethnically cleanse” the electorate in the hope of skewing the result.

    409. Ruby says:

      Mark & Andy

      Andy you are pretty much just repeating the same thing that you’ve said 100s of times already.

      Mark pretty much just repeating what Andy said.

      How about putting forward your ideas on what we should do to win more votes?

    410. Ruby says:

      Testing

      Moonhowler

    411. Republicofscotland says:

      ruby.

      Scots voted yes in 1979 (Devolution) and in 2014, it doesn’t matter how they dress it up to look differently, the result is still the same.

      Giving foreigners the franchise in 2014 cost us independence.

    412. Republicofscotland says:

      I caught a glimpse of the old parasitic tool Prince Charles on the balcony yesterday dressed up like an African dictator with a chest full of medals he hasn’t earned.

    413. Effigy says:

      Is the Tory leadership challenge yet another plot to try and end Party Gate?

      I’d say YES.

      Who wants to stand against him with the country in such a state with inflation out of control
      mortgage rates escalating, Brexit proving itself to be the disaster we predicted and U.K.
      level at such an all time high they might need to stop blank cheque contracts to Tory donors.

      We this horrific beast as PM at Indy Ref 2. He is our Ace in the pack, well Joker at least.

    414. Ian Brotherhood says:

      A positive to come from the Murrells’ shameful behaviour over the weekend is that it’s now much more difficult for her diehard supporters to deny that there is a serious problem.

      That may be reflected in the dismal response to well-known grifter Paul Kavanagh’s latest fundraiser. He cut the target sum to £5,000 but, after 3 days, it seems to have plateaued at just over £2,800.

      We’ll see how ‘loyal’ the wee ginger Dug is when the next appeal fails to hit four figures.

    415. Scott says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      6 June, 2022 at 9:59 am

      A positive to come from the Murrells’ shameful behaviour over the weekend is that it’s now much more difficult for her diehard supporters to deny that there is a serious problem.

      That may be reflected in the dismal response to well-known grifter Paul Kavanagh’s latest fundraiser. He cut the target sum to £5,000 but, after 3 days, it seems to have plateaued at just over £2,800.

      We’ll see how ‘loyal’ the wee ginger Dug is when the next appeal fails to hit four figures.

      He seems to be only loyal to himself and his bank balance.

      Did he actually have a stroke, or did he make that up for sympathy/attention/cash?

    416. Mark Boyle says:

      Ruby says: 6 June, 2022 at 9:31 am

      Mark & Andy

      Andy you are pretty much just repeating the same thing that you’ve said 100s of times already.

      Mark pretty much just repeating what Andy said.

      The only connection between my post and Andy’s was it was directed towards the same post, so to call it “repeating what Andy said” shows you didn’t bother reading it, just kneejerk decided through your Ruby Tainted Glasses that “all posts written by people who have offended me are the same”.

      Where’s the screed of facts and figures in Andy’s post as compared to mine? A whole two percentiles in Andy’s case, whereas I quoted chapter and verse to Twathater’s wilfully ignorant cherry picking of data to sustain his sulk that somehow we were “cheated” rather than “defeated” in 2014.

      How about putting forward your ideas on what we should do to win more votes?

      How about you wind your neck in and stop treating WOS as your personal blog where everyone has to exclusively justify their ideological fitness to pass comments every time any of us say something which you don’t like?

      The sheer irony is you’d the bloody cheek to accuss me of what you do on here every day from dawn until dusk (judging by the posting times) clearly because you have fk all else in your life.

      eg. Ruby says: 4 June, 2022 at 9:25 pm [to me]
      Just out of interest what level in your opinion is required to post here on Wings Over Scotland?

      One day later

      Ruby says: 5 June, 2022 at 12:45 pm [to Andy Ellis]
      Why do you post of [sic!] Wings?
      [think she meant ‘on’ …]

      Don’t do as I do, do as I say, eh?

      The Comments section of WOS is not you and your alias’ persona fiefdom. I, and the other readers, are not here to provide you with catharsis for – by your own admission – the menopausal blues of an armchair “activist”.

      And that is the final reply you and your umpteen “haunner” alias will be receiving from me, because you have long past being an almighty bore. If Andy Ellis and anyone else are daft enough to indulge you, more fool them.

    417. Mark Boyle says:

      Effigy says: 6 June, 2022 at 9:41 am

      Is the Tory leadership challenge yet another plot to try and end Party Gate?

      I’d say YES.

      Who wants to stand against him with the country in such a state with inflation out of control
      mortgage rates escalating, Brexit proving itself to be the disaster we predicted and U.K.
      level at such an all time high they might need to stop blank cheque contracts to Tory donors.

      We this horrific beast as PM at Indy Ref 2. He is our Ace in the pack, well Joker at least.

      It’s a tawdry alliance between the Thatcherite “cull the poor” wing and the “Rejoin The EU without any vote” wing who believe if they get rid of Boris, they’ll get their own way again – as such, it is doomed from conception.

      Even if Boris goes, they haven’t as you say any replacement willing to pick up the poison chalice – except maybe Jeremy “would you let him babysit your kids?” Hunt, who still believes he was the greatest Health Secretary of all time, and would make even the unelectable Sir Keir Starmer a walk in come 2024/January 2025. Those Red Wall Tories aren’t suicidal.

    418. Robert Hughes says:

      Ian B
      ” That may be reflected in the dismal response to well-known grifter Paul Kavanagh’s latest fundraiser. He cut the target sum to £5,000 but, after 3 days, it seems to have plateaued at just over £2,800. ”

      One of Wee Ginger Poodle’s lurking pups will probably see your comment and bung him a few grand to bring his latest * appeal * up to the target amount . Did he not a score £5K anonymous donation to fund his pastoral idyll in rural Ayrshire – away from all those vile * phobes * he so courageously battles ? It would surprise none of us if the anonymous donor in that instance was Sadie Macbeth her/she/yonself

    419. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Hughes –

      My memory of it all isn’t perfect but I’m pretty sure he got a lot more than £5k in an anonymous wad.

    420. Robert Hughes says:

      Ian

      Aye , now when I think about it was it not £20K ? No a bad reward for doing his * look I’m an ostrich , cannae see fck all * party piece .

      Like many here , I used to like his blog until his resolute refusal to acknowledge any flaw in Stoogeon/NSNP and their * strategy * in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary became insufferable .

      It wouldn’t matter in the least what he – or anyone else , thought if the stakes weren’t so high . They are and it doess

    421. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Does ” !

    422. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 8:52 am

      @twatbynametwatbynature 1.29am

      “BUT the fake indy supporters go NA,NA,NA I can’t hear you”

      Those who disagree with your nativist blut und boden rantings aren’t fake indy supporters though, they’re the vast majority of the movement.

      We do hear you, and see you, which is why we’ll keep pointing and laughing at your regressive narrative. We’ll keep explaining that we don’t want to live in the kind of Scotland that thinks it’s OK to disenfranchise 20% of Scots because they aren’t ethnically pure enough for you.

      None of the arguments originally posted by Rev Stu last year have changed. None of them have been refuted.

      They have been refuted, repeatedly.

      Your wife isn’t a Scot, she’s English (per Cybernat 7 article, Daily Nazi)

      Disenfranchising non-Scots just for one day, while we seek to claim our right to self-determination is justifiable, and the right thing to do.

      The Scots are sovereign, not the legislatures or even the monarch.

    423. sarah says:

      @ Ruby at 08.15: your link to Alex Salmond’s case against the perjurers in the false case against him.

      No, I don’t think so – Iain Lawson is saying that one of the Alphabetties has caused this current case to be brought i.e. nasty, vindictive lies against another principled believer in independence.

    424. John Main says:

      Each and every Scots Indy supporter has but one question to consider:

      Does the presence of BoJo in No 10 increase Scottish support for Scots Indy, or reduce it?

      Simple question, with an immediate, obvious, screaming-in-your-face answer.

      At least, that’s what I think.

    425. John Main says:

      @Scott 12:32

      A fundamental worth remembering:

      No taxation without representation.

      Anybody in Scotland, paying for that privilege, gets a say. Andy is right.

      And before you start on me, it is precisely because of this that I am so opposed to immigration of all kinds. But other people want their cakes and to eat them. They want all of the so-called benefits immigrants bring, whilst trying to finagle the fundamentally fucking obvious fact that immigration permanently changes the place being immigrated to.

      So we are where we are. Immigrants come to Scotland to enrich themselves. No other reason. Prove to them that Indy will enrich them further and they will vote Yes.

      Don’t try to make out it is any more complicated than that.

    426. James Che. says:

      The Scottish parliament joined the treaty of the union,
      But the Scottish Parliament was canceled, closed its doors into non – existence. In 1707.

      Q . Who is was left in the treaty of the union.

      A. The English Parliament.

    427. James Che. says:

      Q 1: Did the Scottish parliament cease to Exist in 1707,

      Q 2: How can the then Scottish Parliament be in the treaty of a union, today

    428. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 1:06 pm

      @Scott 12:32

      A fundamental worth remembering:

      No taxation without representation.

      Anybody in Scotland, paying for that privilege, gets a say. Andy is right.

      You aren’t right, Andy.

      Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax, that comes during the election of the 1st govt. of the newly independent Scotland.

    429. Scott says:

      Dear James Cheyne,

      The parliament of Great Britain was created once the English Parliament passed the Union with Scotland Act 1706, following the Scottish Parliament passing the Union with England Act 1707.

      I actually agree with Ellis wrt your obsession and analysis of the Acts.

      You write unadulterated gibberish on the matter.

    430. PacMan says:

      Ah PayPaul Kavanagh with his whiffs of transphobia undercurrents beneath every rock he saw.

      The only ‘transophobia’ is the unwillingness to accept the BS that undermines woman’s rights, much like the unwillingness to accept the ‘MeToo’ wagon-jumping BS that his mistress in Bute house has spouted.

    431. Republicofscotland says:

      Watching the three ringed circus yesterday, (jubilee) well as much as I could stomach (not much), as many down South fawned over a billionaire cosseted nonagenarian and her poncing brood it reminded me of the citizens of North Korea fawning over their leader.

      Anyway from one three ringed circus to another, the main story in the foreign media in Scotland today is that of Boris Johnson and will he or won’t he survive a vote later on tonight.

      For Scotland it means absolutely nothing, it doesn’t matter who is PM their position on Scottish independence is one of the same no. Westminster is the enemy of Scotland it always will be, to keep it undermined and weakened with the help of Scottish House Jocks, the sooner the people of Scotland realise this the sooner Scotland will start moving forward, until then we’re f*cked.

    432. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ROS –

      Can’t help wondering if North Korea has its own Cliff Richard.

    433. Republicofscotland says:

      Ha, ha Ian, nice one.

    434. James Che. says:

      THE BIGGEST WHITE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

      1: The Original Scottish Parliament ceased to exist and died by closing its doors in 1707.

      2: Immediately breaking its participation in creating the treaty of the union.

      3: Before/ prior to the Great British Parliament existence.

      4: Breaking the Scottish parliament’s promise by default to create a new Great British Parliament.

      5: A dead deceased Parliament has no authority and no Legal Status to Act.

    435. Confused says:

      not bad –

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8RcDdaI-Sg

      next up a re-working of pulp “cocaine socialism” for the SNP to be called

      “strap-on dildo nationalism”

      LET ME GET DOWN TO GIST
      – DO YOU WANT A POKE WITH THIS …
      ARE YOU … NATIONALIST

      youtu.be/7b7DgOeMnW4?t=65

    436. John Main says:

      @Scott 1:18

      “Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax”

      Oh yes they fucking will.

      Think for just a mo. NS plausibly announces that post-Indy, the Scottish income tax will be 10% across the board, payable on income in excess of the Scottish currency equivalent of £50K PA. A cross section of financial experts solemnly confirm this would fly.

      Do you honestly believe Bute House would not be besieged by chanting crowds of Scots demanding Indy by Friday?

      Of course it fucking would. And it is precisely because a majority of Scots believe the very opposite, post-Indy prices and taxes will be higher, not lower, that they continue to lean towards No.

      So I repeat. For most Scots, new Scots and prospective yet-to-be Scots, the road to Indy runs through their wallets.

    437. John Main says:

      @Scott 1:18

      And another thing. If you really believe Scots are going to vote for Indy on the assurance that tax rates will be settled later, then I have a box of Ruby’s “I don’t know” cards for you to hand out on the doorsteps.

      Good luck with that.

    438. James Che. says:

      Scott.

      I can see how you are looking at this.

      any promise made during the Scottish Parliament existence would be viable held, totally responsible for breaking the treaty of the union I agree.

      However a dead deceased parliament cannot be held responsible with regards its participation in the treaty of the union, it no longer exists officially.

      The new Great British Parliament would have had to retained the two participating parliaments of the union, under one parliament,

      However it did not do this,

      It asked the Scottish parliament to close its doors,

      The barons and elite that entered westminster Parliament could not represent Scotlands parliament as it had Ceased to exist,

    439. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 2:07 pm

      @Scott 1:18

      “Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax”

      Oh yes they fucking will.

      No they fucking won’t, ya gimp.

      “Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax, that comes during the election of the 1st govt. of the newly independent Scotland.”

      That’s what I wrote, your subsequent strawman scenario is just deflection from the issue at hand – the franchise.

    440. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      And that is the final reply you and your umpteen “haunner” alias will be receiving from me, because you have long past being an almighty bore. If Andy Ellis and anyone else are daft enough to indulge you, more fool them.

      Promise?

    441. James Che. says:

      Scott,

      Re Taxes.

      Land value tax is the best solution for a independent Scotland.

    442. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Does the presence of BoJo in No 10 increase Scottish support for Scots Indy, or reduce it? ”

      Did you not see Stu’s recent poll/article John ? The polling figures suggest – no , they scream , Johnson being PM hasn’t shifted the dial in our direction one iota . Stasis reigns .

      He SHOULD have been an ( unintentional ) asset to our cause , but that would have required someone on our side capable of really exploiting the situation , rather than , the Flatline Fiasco N.S on the one hand , using him as permanent deflection from her own fuck-ups , on the other , mimicking effectively the same stance on everything , from Covid policy to the Neo Liberal pish that is the Growth Commission and the 4 Nations * consensus * forelock-tugging approach .

      As ROS says , it won’t make any difference who is PM , neither Johnson or any other possible replacement could countenance being the one under whose premiership the Union is dissolved . Even if one was inclined to agree to a 2nd IndyRef , they wouldn’t be allowed ; unless the * knew * YES would lose .

      The Brit State will NEVER – willing – allow Scotland to leave the Union . It’s that simple ; and that stark

    443. Ruby says:

      sarah says:
      6 June, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      @ Ruby at 08.15: your link to Alex Salmond’s case against the perjurers in the false case against him.

      No, I don’t think so – Iain Lawson is saying that one of the Alphabetties has caused this current case to be brought i.e. nasty, vindictive lies against another principled believer in independence.

      What I was thinking was it could be the same Alphabetty who is being accused of perjury.
      Perhaps she has brought this case as an act of revenge/way of disrupting the perjury case.
      No doubt we will find out sometime or maybe not. It’s weird that it’s so hush hush.

    444. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      6 June, 2022 at 2:17 pm

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 2:07 pm

      @Scott 1:18

      “Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax”

      Oh yes they fucking will.

      No they fucking won’t, ya gimp.

      “Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax, that comes during the election of the 1st govt. of the newly independent Scotland.”

      That’s what I wrote, your subsequent strawman scenario is just deflection from the issue at hand – the franchise.

      That is spot on Scott. I believe there was a whole load of stuff discussed in the last IndyRef that should have been left until the 1st independent Scottish election.

      It is possible all the questions being asked were coming from Unionists who had no intention of voting YES no matter what the answer was they were just designed to trip up the YES campaign and they fell for it.

      Re this idea of “No Representation Without Taxation’ sounds fine but is there any reason why it can’t be “No Representation Without Taxation for a period of 5 years” (or whatever number is deemed appropriate) for the purpose of an IndyRef franchise.

    445. James Che. says:

      Official entry of the parliament of Scotland into the treaty of the union to continue as the new Great British parliament ceased on the day that the Scottish Parliament closed its doors.

      Any promises it had made towards one future Great British Parliament also ceased that day.

    446. Ruby says:

      Keir Starmer has been taking biology lessons:

      Keir Starmer now saying ‘vast majority’ of women ‘don’t have a penis’ and need safe spaces.

      Maybe when he goes on to do biology stage two he might be able to answer the question ‘What is a woman’

      Is there any reason why transwomen can’t be referred to as transwomen?
      Is the term transwomen offensive? It would certainly clear up a lot of problems if they ditched the ridiculous ‘transwomen are women’ and just stuck with ‘transwomen are transwomen’.

      I read articles about women ie women arrested for some crime and I don’t know if its one of these women with a penis (except if the crime is rape other crimes that require a penis) or not. Similarly if I read polls re womens opinions I have no idea what that means. Are these the opinions of women or transwomen.

    447. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tourette’s Ruby 9.31 am

      “Andy you are pretty much just repeating the same thing that you’ve said 100s of times already.”

      So what? I’ll keep repeating it as long as nativists and moonhowlers keep trotting hout their regressive blut und boden nationalism. I’m not going to let the “we wuz robbed” narrative go unchallenged wherever and whenever I see it, particularly when none of those fluffing the snake oil ever try to justify their regressive narrative or address the points eloquently made by Stu in his original rejoinder.

      Franchise limitation was and remains a crap idea morally and politically. Luckily it enjoys minimal popular support, so even in the unlikely event indyref2 looks at all like being granted, the nativists have no hope of doing anything but turn away prospective supporters with their regressive ethnic nationalism.

      “How about putting forward your ideas on what we should do to win more votes?”

      We should face down regressive nativism and ethnic nationalism and ensure the Yes movement as a whole is united behind Plan B of plebiscitary elections in the event britnats try to frustrate indyref2, or if the courts say holding referendums are beyond the competence of Holyrood.

      In parallel we should make it plain that we’ll institute a new Scottish currency right away, peg pensions to the average paid in the EU, and make it a legal requirement to end homelessness along the lines of the Finnish “Housing First” concept and announce we’ll have referendums on the monarchy, EU membership and NATO membership in the first term of the first post independence parliament.

      Everything else should be left to elected Scottish governments after independence.

    448. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 12.32 pm

      “They have been refuted, repeatedly.

      Your wife isn’t a Scot, she’s English (per Cybernat 7 article, Daily Nazi)

      Disenfranchising non-Scots just for one day, while we seek to claim our right to self-determination is justifiable, and the right thing to do.

      The Scots are sovereign, not the legislatures or even the monarch.”

      No, they haven’t been refuted. My independence supporting wife would have a vote even if some of the fond imaginings of nativist franchise restrictors come to pass. Wrong headed as they undoubtedly are, most regressive nationalists have only been proposing a residence criteria of a few years, sometimes 5-10 years.

      Very few self determination referendums since 1945 have imposed ANY such criteria. The few which have have usually opted for 24 months, so the chances are my wife and many other “New Scots” would qualify for a vote.

      You and other regressive nationalists may regard anyone who was not born here as unfit to participate in a referendum on grounds of blood or ethnicity, but yours isn’t the majority view, nor does it have any sway in the pro-independence parties. It’s overwhelmingly the hobby horse issue of a handful of fringe cranks on the edges of the independence movement, who soil its progressive, civic nationalist credentials.

      Such disenfranchisement is NOT justifiable either morally or politically. Indeed it would be politically suicidal and a huge risk to the chances of international recognition. It is profoundly out of step with international precedent in dozens of other self determination referendums, and flies in the face of the precedent of 2014. Nativism is an absolute non-starter, as evidenced by the paucity of its support within the broader movement, or in any of the pro-independence parties.

      Yes, the Scots are sovereign. ALL the Scots, not just the sub-set you think are ethnically pure enough, or those who can be trusted to vote the right way.

    449. Republicofscotland says:

      I watched the Bird Man of Pollok again last night, Colin McLeod was the Bird man who sadly died aged 39.

      Anyway besides opposing a new motorway through the Pollok area McLeod realised that as part of the union his beloved Pollok suffered from great deprivation.

      A interesting point that McLeod pointed out is that on Holyrood Palaces main gates on top of the pylons on the left stands the lion and on the right the unicorn a representation of the unions coat of arms, McLeod noticed that the unicorn is chained, having chains runs around its body, McLeod pointed out that it represented Scotland’s place in the union chained to it, he tried to climb the pylon and remove the chain but was chased by the police he got away and the chain remains around the unicorn to this day.

      Here’s a piccy of the chained unicorn.

      https://exceptionalea.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/18_8959-Unicorn_At_Gate_Holyrood_Castle_Edinburgh-Copyright-Shelagh-Donnelly.jpg

    450. Republicofscotland says:

      ” Wrong headed as they undoubtedly are, most regressive nationalists have only been proposing a residence criteria of a few years, sometimes 5-10 years.”

      Ellis.

      If we’d have did the above in 2014 we’d be independent by now, even in so called liberal Denmark long term residency doesn’t automatically give you a right to vote on constitutional matters you know this, we’ve been over it a thousand times change the record Ellis.

      Denmark is an independent sovereign country yet even in that country foreigners are NOT guaranteed a constitutional vote, yet the likes of you wants to enfranchise everyone and their dog when Scotland has a vote on ditching this rancid union. I don’t think so.

    451. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      6 June, 2022 at 4:00 pm

      @Tourette’s Ruby 9.31 am

      “Andy you are pretty much just repeating the same thing that you’ve said 100s of times already.”

      So what? I’ll keep repeating it as long as nativists ……

      Well OK it’s your funeral

    452. Republicofscotland says:

      “So I repeat. For most Scots, new Scots and prospective yet-to-be Scots, the road to Indy runs through their wallets.”

      Main.

      Yet native Scots did vote yes in 2014.

    453. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:

      “How about putting forward your ideas on what we should do to win more votes?”

      In parallel we should make it plain that we’ll institute a new Scottish currency right away, peg pensions to the average paid in the EU, and make it a legal requirement to end homelessness along the lines of the Finnish “Housing First” concept and announce we’ll have referendums on the monarchy, EU membership and NATO membership in the first term of the first post independence parliament.

      Everything else should be left to elected Scottish governments after independence

      Well that’s better! Even all of those suggestions might be better left until the 1st IScotland elections and just put forward as ideas of things that could be done if we were Indepedent. Is it possible that asking ‘which currency will we use’ for example is only done by Unionists who have no intention of every voting YES? 45% voted YES without knowing ‘which currency we would use’
      We could emphasis everything we could do if we were indepedent which is impossible now. ie EU/Efta membership, Monarchy, trident,and things like that. Basically asking if the Scottish electorate should make these decisions or the English electorate on our behalf.

    454. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 1.18 pm

      “You aren’t right, Andy.

      Scots voting for independence won’t be voting to set rates of tax, that comes during the election of the 1st govt. of the newly independent Scotland.”

      It wasn’t my point it was John Main’s point. I agree that Scots voting in any future independence referendum won’t be voting to set rates of tax (unless the pro-indy movement had made it part of the platform they were standing on), or for any other detailed policy agenda.

      What IS unavoidable for the nativists promoting franchise restrictions and/or denying the vote to some section of the Scottish population they deem non Scottish enough, is that they are proposing something that is uncommon in terms of the precedent set by other self determination referendums, including our own in 2014.

      Denying those not born here a vote, or imposing unusually long residence criteria like 5-10 years, or making the false equivalence between criteria for citizenship of an already independent state and criteria for participation in a self determination vote, will lose the movement the votes of some undecideds, of some pro independence supporters, and call in to question recognition by the international community.

      The nativists can’t point to any cogent reasons the 2014 precedent should be changed. The international community doesn’t accept that Scotland is in a colonial situation like Timor L’Este, however much the proponents of the “Scotland as colony” try to stand the narrative up as equivalent.

    455. James Che. says:

      The penny will drop yet.

      The contractual agreement in 1706/07.

      Was that two parliaments would join together as one, ( IE) they would work together jointly. And become [ known] as G B parliament thereafter.

      But both original parliaments have to continue to exist under the new Great British Parliament umberella, for the continued existence of the G B parliament to maintain its position is solely based on that agreement with the Old Scottish Parliament.

      The Scottish side of that contract was terminated, by the British Parliament.

    456. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 4:13 pm

      Yes, the Scots are sovereign. ALL the Scots, not just the sub-set you think are ethnically pure enough, or those who can be trusted to vote the right way.

      Your wife isn’t a Scot. She’s English. She has documents to prove it.

      I’ve already explained that foreign nationals and those born in N Ireland/Wales/England shouldn’t get a vote *just this one time*, on the grounds that it is a matter for the Scots & Scots law to decide if/when we leave the union.

      Nothing personal, merely principled.

      What’s to stop people moving to Scotland (immigration is a reserved matter, despite Scotland’s borders being defined in Articles of Union) because they like voting and then leaving again? That’s right, nothing.

      And here’s the rub, my vote will always be YES, yours is conditional.

    457. Andy Ellis says:

      @Vlad’s ding-a-ling 4.27 pm

      “Denmark is an independent sovereign country yet even in that country foreigners are NOT guaranteed a constitutional vote,…”

      Denmark is already an independent country. The criteria for gaining citizenship in an already independent country are NOT the same thing as who is or should be included in the franchise for a self determination vote. Any five year old can understand the distinction, yet regressive nativists wheel the false equivalence out all the time because they know that the precedents and history of self determination referendums since 1945 simply don’t fit their narrative.

      People who live in Scotland, who work here, pay taxes or are retired and resident, and those registered to vote here are not foreign until they decide not to take up Scottish citizenship AFTER independence when we can set out our own criteria for citizenship like all the other independent nations on earth.

      It’s also worth noting that Greenland, which has its own aspirations to becoming an independent state, plans to do so on the basis of enfranchising ALL resident citizens for any vote irrespective of their ethnicity. Greenland’s Prime Minister Mute Egede sacked his Foreign Minister Pele Broberg in September 2021 for suggesting that only ethnic Inuit should be allowed to vote and that ethnic Danes and other foreign nationals should be excluded.

      Polling in 2019 showed 66.7% of Greenlanders support independence at some point in the future, up from 64% in 2016.

      https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/greenland-foreign-minister-demoted-after-independence-comments-2021-09-27/

      “….yet the likes of you wants to enfranchise everyone and their dog when Scotland has a vote on ditching this rancid union. I don’t think so.”

      Well, not just me. You and other regressive nativists may get a hard on thinking about excluding all the mud bloods and issuing your tartan equivalents to Ariernachweis or Ahnenpaß but it’s very much a minority foible, a bit like thinking your mate Vlad’s victims had it coming.

      “We” decided the franchise in 2014. It was right then, it’s right now. Persuade more indigenous Scots to vote Yes, and persuade more who didn’t bother to vote at all to turn out rather than trying to queer the pitch in your favour by instituting regressive blut and boden ethnic nationalism. If you think the majority of the progressive, civic nationalist independence movement will stand by and watch fringe extremists like you derail independence you’re even more delusional than your general output suggests.

    458. Scott says:

      James Che. says:
      6 June, 2022 at 5:20 pm

      The penny will drop yet.

      I wish it fucking would.

      Both Parliaments still exist in legal form, but their ability to sit has been sisted sine die.

      The end.

    459. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 5.41 pm

      “I’ve already explained that foreign nationals and those born in N Ireland/Wales/England shouldn’t get a vote *just this one time*, on the grounds that it is a matter for the Scots & Scots law to decide if/when we leave the union.”

      It’s not your call who is allowed to class themselves as a Scot though Scott. Scotland is nothing special in the eyes of the international community or in terms of international law such that a section of the independence movement can randomly decide who is allowed to participate in whether Scotland becomes an independent state. The accepted norm is that for self determination referendums, those resident are enfranchised, not those born there or those of particular or main ethnic groups. It doesn’t matter how much nativists rage against the precedent and the simple facts, they remain facts.

      Your stance isn’t principled, it’s regressive ethnic nationalism.

      I don’t give unconditional support to anyone. Only cultists do.

    460. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 5:54 pm

      It’s not your call who is allowed to class themselves as a Scot though Scott

      He’ll have pronouns in his bio next.

      By his logic, his wife is a Scot, despite being born in England.

      Also by his logic, on independence the whole of England will be Scottish.

    461. Republicofscotland says:

      “You and other regressive nativists may get a hard on thinking about excluding all the mud bloods ”

      Sir Nick Carters bum boy @5.45pm.

      Not nativists but born in Scotland, you a blood and soil nationalist supporter (U-crane N-azi’s) know the difference.

      Our way, not your way, has already been proven when in 2014 the majority of Scots voted yes.

    462. Ruby says:

      Should the franchise be the same for IndyRef2 as it was for IndyRef1?

      No EU citizens so that will be different.

      I have some doubts about holiday home owners and students (from outwith Scotland) getting a vote. Students might not be interested but they could be open to bribes/manipulation.

      If there is no time scale on how long you should be resident in Scotland before voting could you be here for just an hour or possibly not at all.

      Do you have to physically be in Scotland to register & vote. Could you rent a flat register 30 people & apply for 30 postal votes for example and never have set foot in Scotland. Do you need a home to register? Can you vote if your homeless? Could the homeless be bribed/manipulated?

    463. James Che. says:

      Scott,

      I am not a native Scot, my partner would be classed as such, however I was not born in Scotland, so can i am not biased, just fair minded when it comes to democracy.

      When I speak of the factual history that is wrote On the British parliaments site and in Hansard it is a presumption that these are my gibberish thoughts,

      However I copy facts from legal documented history, although not often from modern day professors or modern boffs whom are on a payroll or would or often interfere with an agenda of their own bias.

      However History as wrote down for many years , and has been in the mainstrean of public reading is already history, and is seldom alterable, this can be researched,

      And if indeed these are considered gibberish I ask only one question,

      Which side is telling me this is gibberish history.

    464. Republicofscotland says:

      “Should the franchise be the same for IndyRef2 as it was for IndyRef1?”

      Ruby.

      The border between Scotland and England is too fluid with regards to folk coming and going. I’d definitely go for the, if you’re born in Scotland you get the vote in an indyref, and again just the two options of yes and no the Britnats want are third option to dilute the vote.

      The route of if you can’t convince others to vote for an indy Scotland doesn’t float my boat as many living and working in Scotland will always support the union regardless of the benefits of independence, and when you throw in the scaremongering media which lied constantly in 2014 doing it again, people will once again believe the lies, that could cost us the vote.

      Sadly we have a gutless and spineless FM who wouldn’t dream of putting Scots (born in Scotland) first, which in my opinion equates to a rerun of the 2014 indyref or even worse if a third option is put on the ballot paper, which I wouldn’t put past Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots.

      Enfranchising everyone is a recipe for disaster.

    465. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/0ZlPy

      You wouldn’t even have had to rent a flat. You could have just registered on 2nd September 2014 and voted on the 18th September 2014.

      It’s no wonder people are looking at alternative franchise ideas.

      I wonder if you could just use a PO Box/Poste Restante.

      What kind of questions are you asked when you register to vote?

      “Anyone experiencing homelessness can register to vote by making a “declaration of local connection”.

    466. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy Ellis says: 6 June, 2022 at 5:45 pm

      It’s also worth noting that Greenland, which has its own aspirations to becoming an independent state, plans to do so on the basis of enfranchising ALL resident citizens for any vote irrespective of their ethnicity. Greenland’s Prime Minister Mute Egede sacked his Foreign Minister Pele Broberg in September 2021 for suggesting that only ethnic Inuit should be allowed to vote and that ethnic Danes and other foreign nationals should be excluded.

      Ah yes, Mr Ellis, but then anything smacking of ethnic cleansing is a wee bit of a cultural sore point between the Scandinavians and the Kalaallits on account of the latter dishing out to the ancestors of the Vikings what they did to everyone else circa the 15th century … (despite the best attempts of white English speaking ‘historians’ attempts to politically correct the historical record for the benefit of Guardian readers)

      Still, I do find it all rather hilarious listening to the assorted morons on here and their various alter egos (perhaps because their egos have grown so enormous they require splitting into several cyber-horcruxes?) attempting to excuse the unexcusable, particular with reference to your matrimonial ties with “the wicked English”.

      Just think, if they’d had their way back in the mists of the 20th century, one of the prime movers of Scottish nationalism for six decades (and Jackanory …) – Wendy Wood – would have been told never to darken their doors again for the crime of being born in Kent …

    467. Ruby says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      6 June, 2022 at 5:54 pm

      It’s not your call who is allowed to class themselves as a Scot though Scott.

      It’s nobodys call because we are not independent. Westminster on the other hand can decide who is and isn’t British. Anybody can be a Scot just like anybody can be a woman. The discussion here is about who should be classed as a Scottish voter?
      Maybe it should be restricted to those born in Scotland or something very similar otherwise it just seems like anybody can vote.
      The problem with the franchise is like everything else in Scotland it is decided by mainly English Unionist MPs. They will vote for a franchise that will suit England.

    468. Saffron Robe says:

      Big Jock says:

      “There were at least 30 Catholic Stuarts in line before George of Hanover.”

      I agree with you, Big Jock. The Hanoverian line was a travesty. If you went to the shops and bought something that had been diluted by more that fifty parts to one you would ask for your money back!

      I came across an interesting article by John Vassiliou about Sophia of Hanover. I thought the following paragraph regarding the Sophia Naturalization Act was quite pertinent to recent discussions:

      “Now, I wouldn’t be a dutiful Scot if I didn’t question how a law passed by the English Parliament, pre-dating the Acts of Union that merged England and Scotland into the Kingdom of Great Britain, could still be held to confer British subject status. Their Lordships did briefly mention this point, but the Attorney General declined to pursue it, having formed the view that the argument was not a good one. The court therefore made no pronouncement on this issue.”

      http://www.freemovement.org.uk/sophia-of-hanover-british-citizenship-by-descent/

    469. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 6:57 pm

      Walter Mitty says: 6 June, 2022 at 5:45 pm

      “It’s also worth noting that Greenland, which has its own aspirations to becoming an independent state, plans to do so on the basis of enfranchising ALL resident citizens for any vote irrespective of their ethnicity. Greenland’s Prime Minister Mute Egede sacked his Foreign Minister Pele Broberg in September 2021 for suggesting that only ethnic Inuit should be allowed to vote and that ethnic Danes and other foreign nationals should be excluded.”

      Ah yes, Mr Mitty…

      Still, I do find it all rather hilarious listening to the assorted morons on here and their various alter egos [Chas/Main/Boyle/Ellis etc, etc, etc, etc, etc] (perhaps because their egos have grown so enormous they require splitting into several cyber-horcruxes?)

    470. PacMan says:

      Men of fighting age aren’t allowed to leave U.Crane. It was even in the Scottish news a wee while back when a Scottish dad welcomed his U.Crainian daughter in law but not his son as he was stuck there due to some vague mutterings he said of martial law and men not being allowed to leave the country.

      I wonder if our darling Andy Ellis went over to his beloved U.Craine and spouted his nativist/moon howler nonsense?

      Most likely never to be seen again.

    471. Ruby says:

      Greenland, which has its own aspirations to becoming an independent state, plans to do so on the basis of enfranchising ALL resident citizens for any vote irrespective of their ethnicity.

      Restricting the vote to only those born in Scotland does not exclude anyone due to their ethnicity/preferred ethnicity. You can be born in Scotland and be English, Asian, British and
      whole range of different ethnicities.

    472. Ruby says:

      Want to spot a Unionist?

      Look out for accusations of anti-Englishness!

      PacMan says:
      I wonder if our darling Andy Ellis went over to his beloved U.Craine and spouted his nativist/moon howler nonsense?

      Fancy starting a crowd-funder?

      Scott says:
      6 June, 2022 at 6:01 pm

      He’ll have pronouns in his bio next.

      Is cunt a pronoun?

    473. John Main says:

      @Republicofscotland says:6 June, 2022 at 4:21 pm

      “McLeod noticed that the unicorn is chained, having chains runs around its body, McLeod pointed out that it represented Scotland’s place in the union chained to it, he tried to climb the pylon and remove the chain”

      Jeezo, Repo, you truly are dense.

      The Unicorn, the ancient heraldic symbol of Scottish royalty, was reputed to be so strong, that only the most powerful man, or the purest of women, could dominate it.

      Scottish royalty traditionally depicted the Unicorn in chains as their way of telling the world they were strong enough, or pure enough, to subjugate the Unicorn. Something only royalty, and Scottish royalty at that, could do.

      FFS, a primary school kid can find this stuff out. You come on here Repo, day after fucking day, virtue-signalling your Scottish patriotism to the world, yet you seem to know fuck all about your country and its history.

      I am starting to think you are one of those New Scots yourself.

    474. PacMan says:

      O/T

      I know this is old news but I had only just come across it when reading about a totally unrelated issue:

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/19/biden-defense-production-act-baby-formula-shortage-crisis

      The US amongst other things is using military aircraft to fly baby formula from other countries to satisfy a baby formula shortage in their country due to safety concern at one of the biggest US producing plant.

      Given the worldwide supply chain issues caused by the pandemic and exasperated the current war, if this is going to become a common thing then is it going to make these issues even worse for us outside of America?

    475. John Main says:

      @CrapMan says : 6 June, 2022 at 7:40 pm

      “Men of fighting age …”

      Whoa there Crapman.

      Stick to posting about things you know about.

      OK, I’ll let you have “age”.

    476. John Main says:

      @CrapMan says : 6 June, 2022 at 8:00 pm

      “The US amongst other things is using military aircraft to fly baby formula from other countries to satisfy a baby formula shortage in their country due to safety concern at one of the biggest US producing plant.

      Given the worldwide supply chain issues caused by the pandemic and exasperated the current war, if this is going to become a common thing then is it going to make these issues even worse for us outside of America?”

      Thought you only drank Cuba’s finest ice-cold CrapMan?

      Maybes time to start weaning yersel.

    477. PacMan says:

      Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it’s CrapMan

      I know unionists like you John Main and your sock-puppets on here get a lot of grief from the seagulls on the occasional time you leave your house after pounding furiously for hours on end at your keyboard on this site but just you wait until the ol’ CrapMan flies over 🙂

    478. Saffron Robe says:

      Another interesting thought is that Scottish independence would confer English independence. Couched in those terms, Scottish independence would be seen in a positive light (and not the negative light in which it is currently portrayed) by a great many of the English people.

    479. John Main says:

      @ Scott says : 6 June, 2022 at 5:41 pm

      “What’s to stop people moving to Scotland (immigration is a reserved matter, despite Scotland’s borders being defined in Articles of Union) because they like voting and then leaving again? That’s right, nothing.”

      Scott, you are right.

      Now, here’s one for you:

      And what’s to stop these people, when they are here, voting Yes for Indy?

      That’s right, nothing.

      Lots of English hate Scotland, Scott. In fact, given the disparity in population sizes, quite possibly, far more English hate Scotland than vice versa. And they want shot of the entire toxic, rancid, mess. Just look at the Daily Mail.

      So be careful shooting my idea down in flames, cos if you do, you also shoot down your own idea. Soz.

    480. John Main says:

      @CrapMan says : 6 June, 2022 at 8:11 pm

      You can fly?

      Even if I believe you, no way you can fly and crap at the same time.

      That would be like you being able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

    481. PacMan says:

      @ John Main

      I chew bubble gum and kiss ass. I’m all out of gum at the moment.

    482. John Main says:

      @ Ruby says:6 June, 2022 at 7:55 pm

      “Is cunt a pronoun?”

      FFS Ruby, you’re the resident expert here.

    483. PacMan says:

      Have to laugh at PayPaul Kavanagh. He says he can only type with one hand but all he does his copy and paste from current articles into his old posts and publishes them as new ones.

      Doesn’t he know he can do all of this with just a mouse?

    484. Dan says:

      Saffron Robe says: at 8:12 pm

      Another interesting thought is that Scottish independence would confer English independence. Couched in those terms, Scottish independence would be seen in a positive light (and not the negative light in which it is currently portrayed) by a great many of the English people.

      But what currency would England use if it was independent!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY2W_Okl9lE

    485. Republicofscotland says:

      A excellent article from Craig Murray of which I entirely agree with.

      “Either way, it boils down to this. Leaders lead. Scotland needs to forget about referenda. It has elected a majority of pro-Independence representatives. They should declare Independence. This could be done by the Scottish Parliament, but I would much prefer a National Assembly to be called combining both MPs and MSPs. The National Assembly should declare Independence and apply to the United Nations for recognition.

      While that is pending, and at least six months after the declaration, a confirmatory plebiscite can be held under conditions which Scotland controls.”

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/06/a-revolutionary-act/

      He states that the conditions for a fair indyref in Scotland simply do not exist and have not existed at all.

    486. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scat 6.01 pm

      “By his logic, his wife is a Scot, despite being born in England.

      Also by his logic, on independence the whole of England will be Scottish.”

      My wife, like others not born here, is entitled to a vote. Regressive ethnic nationalist aren’t going to change that however hard they try. Like many other New Scots she will take Scottish citizenship if we become independent. Doubtless a fair few native Scots who oppose independence will elect not to do so and retain British or other citizenship. That’s just the nature of the situation.

      Of course, you’re not a principled person. You’re a regressive ethnic nationalist spouting your hatred from behind the cowardly veil of anonymity. It’s not hard to see why. If you did have principles, then your plan to disenfranchise non-indigenous Scots would be twinned with a principled acceptance that any Scottish born person abroad would be able to register to be included in any future referendum, as the Catalan’s do. So how about it? Ar ethe Scots born in the diaspora pure enough for all you nativists?

      Why would the whole of England be Scottish? Even by your faintly disturbed standards that makes no kind of sense.

    487. Republicofscotland says:

      Agent Ellis calls Craig Murray’s excellent route out of this fetid union.

      “punting half baked constitutional short cuts.”

      Now lets see who to believe Craig Murray a die-hard indy believer with a wealth of experience, or a Britnat shill hmmm…

    488. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 8:41 pm

      My wife, like others not born here, is entitled to a vote.

      Mrs Mitty will get a vote if, and only if, the legislation says those not born in Scotland can do so.

      Also, she isn’t a New Scot, she’s just an old English.

    489. Republicofscotland says:

      Johnson survives vote by 211 to 148.

    490. Dorothy Devine says:

      Isn’t it wonderful that the prime Minister has survived the vote of no confidence and we can all’ move on’?

      Personally I am over the moon that such a despicable , untidy liar is still in place and the rest of the world can look on with envy.

      I am equally thrilled for the Conservative party as a whole – their stupidity and self interest on show for all to see.

    491. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scat 8.57 pm

      The legislation won’t be written by regressive nativists. In the unlikely event a referendum happens in any reasonable timescale, it will be written by those who believe in the mainstream civic nationalist consensus. The franchise will remain the same or have only minor changes: anything else just won’t fly. However hard it triggers all you nativists you have no realistic prospect of success thankfully.

      Ruth Wishart’s words from 2014 remain right, and remain the view of the overwhelming majority of the movement and of right thinking folk everywhere. The fringe claque of bigoted nativists in here represent only themselves and a vanishingly small claque of extremists.

      It is, of course, utterly facile to pretend that Scots and English are homogenous peoples to which collective national characteristics can be casually attached. We are both mongrel nations and all the healthier for it.

      “A Scot is someone born here, and anyone who has paid us the compliment of settling here.”

      https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/ruth-wishart-nailing-my-colours-scotlands-mast-1607473

    492. Scott says:

      Walter Mitty says:
      6 June, 2022 at 9:42 pm

      @Scat 8.57 pm

      The legislation won’t be written by

      Walter Mitty, Debbie Mitty or Ruth Wishart.

      Your wife is English. She isn’t a Scot.

      Were you a New English during all those years you spent in the Shire? Were you fuck.

    493. Andy Ellis says:

      @Vlad’s ding-a-ling 8.53 pm

      Who supports Craig’s cunning plan then? He appears to be semi detached from Alba now after their failure to reach escape velocity at the local elections, so he now thinks were magically going to to achieve independence via UDI based on current MSPs or preferably a National Assembly combining MSPs and MPs which unionists will boycott and nobody abroad will recognise.

      Quite apart from anything else none of the current pro indy parties support his “revolutionary vanguardism” nor will rank and file voters. He’s effectively advocating a tartan Tooting Popular Front. His wealth of experience doesn’t seem to have amounted to presenting a coherent plan or showing how it will produce results in any reasonable timescale, still less that “the moment is now”.

    494. John Main says:

      @Republicofscotland says: 6 June, 2022 at 8:36 pm

      “I would much prefer a National Assembly to be called combining both MPs and MSPs. The National Assembly should declare Independence and apply to the United Nations for recognition.”

      So call the National Assembly then. Somebody has to.

      I don’t think Craig’s article is that great. Having roundly dismissed NS as yellow or a tractor, and the SNP and the Greens as unable to reach even the heights of mediocrity, he then expects them all to magically pull a rabbit out of a hat and tell the world we are independent.

      There is no route that I can see by which the useless shower running Scotland (Craig’s assessment, not mine) can do this.

      And certainly not while Indy support is flat-lined at 45% (Craig’s number, not mine).

      I used to like reading adventure stories when I was wee. “And with one bound, our hero was free” made sense then.

      But now I’ve grown up.

    495. PacMan says:

      Johnson will be getting bluttered tonight.

      Again..

      Seriously though, surviving a no confidence vote with a substantial amount voting against him and talking afterwards of moving on. Guess it’s more of the same, sheer incompetence and totally out of touch with the reality of ordinary people.



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