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Embarrassment Of The Year

Posted on December 19, 2018 by

Okay, it’s only the 19th of December, but we don’t think there’s any chance of this one being beaten by the time it’s 2019.

As expected, Labour bottled the chance to call a vote of no confidence in the UK government today, refusing to support a motion tabled by four other opposition parties last night and thereby guaranteeing the Tories at least another two months in power.

Their official stated reason is that the only way to avoid a disastrous hard Brexit is to call a vote of no confidence in the Tories next month when it’ll (somehow, magically) be more likely to succeed, trigger a general election, get (somehow, magically) a Labour majority and then go to the EU and negotiate (somehow, magically) a better deal from them than the Tories have done.

Which makes this a bit of a beamer:

So if it’s “very clear” that there can be “no more negotiations” (and therefore no better deal), and Labour is going to vote against Theresa May’s deal (which Labour says it is), and if Brexit is going to happen (which Labour says it is), then the only possible conclusion left is that Labour’s official policy is now to crash out of the EU with no deal, and absolutely everything the party is saying in public about Brexit is a lie.

So at least everyone now finally knows where they stand. Even if, as is so often the case nowadays, it’s only because Labour told the truth by accident.

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    1. 19 12 18 21:56

      Embarrassment Of The Year | speymouth

    466 to “Embarrassment Of The Year”

    1. Labour:daft, corrupt, dishonest disasters.

    2. ROBBO says:

      Despite all the economic harm, uncertainty and distress to thousands they want to be seen to be the FIRST to hopefully bring down the Government. What a bunch of wasters. So they will left with no option but to vote FOR May’s deal to save face. Shameful.

    3. Muscleguy says:

      Hey Labour there is probably a circle squarer somewhere who would love some advice on technique from you.

    4. Astonished says:

      Were brown envelopes involved ?

      And when am I getting my Brexit jetpack and unicorn ?

      Please,please call it Nicola and make Christmas special

    5. Bob Mack says:

      Oops!. You need a great memory to be a good liar.

    6. Jimbo says:

      Labour will do really well … in England.

    7. jimnarlene says:

      Wish I could say I was surprised, by Labour’s shambolic form of opposition, but I’m not.

    8. Helpmaboab says:

      “Yes, an economic and social crisis is imminent.

      No, we won’t do anything to avoid or mitigate this.

      Yes, our top priority is remaining electable in England.

      Yes, because this is the best way to perpetuate our lucrative careers.”

    9. Betty Boop says:

      It’s simple, they only face each other in the English parliament because there isn’t enough room on the benches for them all on one side. There ain’t a straw to draw between them.

    10. Athanasius says:

      What you’re forgetting, Stu, is that the Labour Party is on “the right side of history”. It therefore follows that any lie they might tell will be excused by the nobility of their cause. Leftism 101.

    11. ScottishPsyche says:

      Labour is an utter embarrassment – the ‘Wile E Coyote’ of politics, always being undone by their own convoluted machinations.

    12. Auld Rock says:

      Corbyn needs reminding that his ‘Ulta-Left’ Labour Party are still 4 points behind the Tories in National voting in England. Seems the English may hate what the Tories have done, or not done as the case may be but THEY DON’T TRUST LABOURS LEFT WING ‘MILITANT’.

    13. Not much to say,Alliance of Silence.The pantomime continues,over the Christmas period.We did not even have to bother watching Westminster News, more like playtime for children,no wonder they are turning into a world wide joke.Sanity and real vision from Scotland.Imagine them being world rulers,it would be like looking through the wrong end of your binoculars into a dense fog.I hope we are no longer attached in this madness,the world can see some sense and leadership from Scotland.

    14. Essexexile says:

      Terrible day for Labour.
      They’ve been exposed as duplicitous and completely lacking in political skill while Corbyn looks even more like the petulant student politician we’ve always known he has never developed out of.
      Today, the worst PM in the modern era was somehow made to look better than the embarrassment that she is by the worst opposition leader in, well, any era.
      I would have no confidence in either of them making me a decent cup of tea.

    15. alwi says:

      Yep. Typical labour ‘not invented here’ nonsense. I know labour members who support independence but, wait for it, it has to come from labour, not the SNP. Absolute cretins. So this is just more of the same.

    16. Former vegan god says:

      I have a brother who seriously considered voting no in 2014 because he was terrified at the prospect of the socialists getting into power in an independent Scotland. I now totally get it.

    17. twathater says:

      I love watching ALL these liebour high heid yins squirm when ANY interviewer asks them how are liebour going to get a better deal from the EU (ANSWER cough REASONS ) The EU has said categorically without being part of the EU and accepting the 4 freedoms you cannot be part of the SM or CU how are liebour going to achieve this ( ANSWER we will have a unique SM & CU union , different but the same ) no matter how many times they are LAUGHED AT not with , they still think we are ALL as stupid as them . FFS is there anyone within the liebour ranks that has a brain and is connected to reality .

    18. Welsh Sion says:

      Not that it needs proving, but here’s showing that in the SNP we have decent, caring politicians:

    19. Cubby says:

      Stupid Westminster.

    20. Ian McCubbin says:

      Sorry Corbyn I’d just a fuckwit, lazy shilpit individual who wants to take the money stay in opposition, of a kind, and moan about everything being wrong.
      He should resign as well as May.

    21. Ian McCubbin says:

      Oops typo ‘is just’

    22. Peter Macbeastie says:

      I saw someone come up with what I think is the most plausible reason for Labour to be so bloody inept at the moment.

      They really don’t want power. Not yet. They want the Tories to take us out of the EU, watch as they make things so bad even Labour look like a better option, and sweep into power to ‘fix’ everything the Tories fucked up, failing of course to remember the Tories couldn’t have done it without the useless opposition of Labour.

      This isn’t my theory, and I can’t remember who said it, but it’s easily the most logical reasoning for Labour’s utter ineptitude against the weakest Tory government I’ve ever seen. And I’m old enough to know what they looked like the last time they were weak; not even Major was as shite as May.

      They will not be forgiven for this. Not in Scotland. England? Maybe, they’re pretty clearly not quite as switched on Scotland, although given the number of Brexit supporting morons across the political spectrum here I’m less inclined to be smug than I might otherwise have been.

      Labour have long since abandoned anything approaching principles, they’ve betrayed the people who put them up there over and over again, and now they’re willing to see the country burn so they can look good trying to put it out.

      When they finally get extinguished in Scotland, as they richly deserve, I for one will not mourn their passing, only the long dead corpse of what they used to be.

      I only hope something better rises from the corpse. There are still socialists in Scotland, some of them are even still in Labour.

    23. geeo says:

      O/T but seems somehow fitting, after a day where the focussed issue of the day was Corbyn saying the PM was Stupid, or not, and the virtual parliamentary debate over the biggest Scandal since Treeza’s husband put out weetabix instead of rice krispies, that THIS happened.

      People truly deserve better.

    24. TheItalianJob says:

      As suspected. WM Unionist parties close ranks to protect “Their Establishment”.

      Corbyn and Labour same old same old. Pretend to stick up for the so called “ordinary people” whilst doing the exact opposite. Siding with the Tories on many issues they should be opposing.

      To think I was a loyal supporter and member for so long until I saw the light and their true colours during Indy 2014. Red Tories to the core.

    25. Liam says:

      It’s now a big game of Chicken. Driving straight towards the cliff. Someone is going to cave in first. Either May’s ‘Deal’ gets through… or she pulls the plug and revokes article 50.

      No serious politician / policy maker / or vaguely aware human being (apart from the extreme looney tunes who think the ‘Empire’ is still there, stuck in stasis waiting for Britain to take up where it left off half a century ago) is seriously thinking: ‘No Deal Brexit sounds great! I’ll have my name all over that!’

    26. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Was swapping memories with @Eileen43Eileen on Twitter about the old days, because I wasn’t sure if I was just imagining that a certain D Hothersall used to comment btl in this place. She assured me that he did.

      Can’t offhand remember if any other real SLabbers honoured us with their presence, but we certainly don’t see hide nor hair of them now.

      Wouldn’t take a brainstorming session by Poirot, Taggart and Lovejoy to work out why, eh?


    27. rabbie says:

      the game is rigged folks it always has been.Its just one big play down there in Westminster.Fake opposition fake politics fake terror etc etc

    28. Marie Clark says:

      Oh dear,it’s the same old song from Labour. What on earth is the point of them. Labour along with the libdums and the tories are all the one party masquerading as three parties, and all of them, without exception utterly useless.

      How does Labour propose to get a better deal. The EU have said quite clearly that there will be no further negotiations, end of, fine. Still no one listens.

      The Maybot, is trying to run the clock down and frighten the bejazus out of everyone to back her deal. She still seems to think that the EU will blink first. Wrong, they won’t budge. Goodness knows where this is all leading, at the moment crashing out looks like the front runner.

      Thank god that Scotland as a way out. Man the Lifeboats folks, save yourselves.

    29. Daisy Walker says:

      I’ve been trawling the twitter / you tube sights for info, as is my want.

      on a twitter feed called Haggis UK there were 3 or 4 short video links

      Richard Brandson, John Major, Tony Blair, David Mundell….

      All saying, we need a people’s vote, Brexit will destroy the UK economy.

      Brexit has now gotten so bad, that the horrors of Tory/Thatcher era( I include Blair in that grouping) are now speaking and sounding like real human beings!

      The cynic inside me thinks – timing is everything and its, too little, too late – you’se are just trying to rescue some vestige of credibility for your parties in the aftermath.

      But it doesn’t stop Brexit being a disaster, and this news IS getting to our former No Voters in ways we never could.

    30. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @rabbie –

      Hear hear.

      We don’t get many music videos posted now on WOS, but this one isn’t so much ‘music’ as polemic set to a beat.

      The political landscape targetted happens to be American – and it’s 35 years ago – but it’s not hard to see why it’s relevant to the shite we’re all having to put up with right now.

      Gil Scott-Heron, ‘B-Movie’ –

    31. geeo says:

      Big last 24 hours, the SNP have brutally exposed Labour for what they are, not exposed to us, since we all over that already, but to those outwith Scotland.

      Like here in Scotland, those voters will start questioning everything the WM Cabal tells them.

      Much more at stake here than brexit, or the loss of the Union, there is a chance the plebs may see what they are up to.

    32. PRJ says:

      Labour have been going over the motions of opposition, but today they have shown that they have been in collusion with the Tory party well before the referendum. Why Brexit? I’m not one for conspiracy theory but this appears to have come out of a page of Milton Friedman theory’s of disaster capitalism.

    33. Thepnr says:

      Every time that you think something has to give it doesn’t. We would know the terms of Brexit by October, then we don’t so waht about November then at the emergency EU summit, nope!

      Surely in December after the “meaningful vote” sorry but no, January then hahaha we’ll have to wait and see eh!

      One thing is certain and that is there will be a day of reckoning for both Labour and the Tories, as painful as it is to have to put up with the constant delays, in the long run this will pay of for those that support an Independent Scotland.

      You can only appear to be useless a limited number of times without actually proving beyond doubt that you are useless.

      A stunning success then for the useless Britnat parties so far.

    34. geeo says:

      Best bit about the whole chaotic mess at WM ?

      The SNP are pretty much the cause of that chaos.

      Yet every day, people come on here bleating that the “SNP must do something”

      Out of that chaos is rising supoort for indy as people see the reality of WM actions and behaviours.

      “The ESSENPEE are ruining brexit, and doing so deliberately”…!!

    35. Graf Midgehunter says:


      100 days left before the plug hole consumes the UK.

      Compare the the press release today from the EU regarding their “no-deal” Contingency Action Plan with the drip, drip, secret, sheeesh don’t scare anyone “plans” from London.

      Compare it to the disgusting UK “Immigration White Paper” designed to stir up hate and keep skilled workers out of the Holy Brit Empire.

      Main ZDF news at 21.45, up first – 100 days to go and instead of dealing with the dangers of No deal, London amuses itself with with Corbyn lip reading.
      Anchorman astonished and just shakes his head. Deals with the EU Contingency Action Plan so that folk in Germany knows what it’s about.

      ZDF Topic 3. Germany is screaming out for MORE skilled workers and anchorman explains Government plans for easing immigration for skilled people and easing more refugees already in Germany into the labour market. Some of whom are already quailified in many trades or professions.

      I’m so ashamed at what the London is doing to the UK and the rest of the world sees it too.

    36. ronnie anderson says:

      The Border Protection Agency have been put on high alert they have intelligence that there will be a attempt by a illegal immigrants to smuggle themselves into britain 1 in the guise of ah baby in ragged clothing but he’s ah dead giveaway what with ah big spotlight shining doon on him and 3 strangers following him .

      Some people will be following the Bbc story Stranger in ah Manger , who knows it might be ah long running series .

    37. Legerwood says:

      This is an interview from CH4 news this evening with an Irish Senator. He is very clear nothing more is on offer from the EU. He also makes it clear Ireland can more than feed itself.

    38. Frank says:

      Ian B at 10.30
      Thanks for that, and Gill Scott Heron’s father played for Celtic.

    39. Cactus says:

      “Stupid [insert word]”

      Mighten thoust all consider the possibility that the above ‘event’ was entirely choreographed/stage-managed by either Corbyn individually, or in collaboration with ‘the others’.

      Let’s have a swatch at the evidence…

      1. Yes
      2. Bercow gets challenged on similar
      3. Then Leadsom follows up on the same theme
      4. Division! and deflect (it’s The Muppety Show)
      5. What’s that scurrying up yon tree?

      The Game is almost over…

      The Game is almost up.

      The Game is ON.

      WIN by default.

      Here’s another one of Labours finest… remember:

    40. Fairliered says:

      By not supporting the VONC, Corbyn and his labour lackeys are proving that they have more confidence in Teresa May’s government than in their own ability. If only we had a media that would hold them all to account!

    41. Betty Boop says:

      @rabbie, 10:18pm

      Spot on rabbie. The explanation for Labour is really quite simple.

    42. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – watched Gun City tonight. You’re right, it is a powerful film and well worth watching. Barcelona and the anarchists in the 1920s in the period leading up to the Spanish Civil War and Franco. All the seedy delights of a violent fascist state developing.

      A Netflix film for those who want to watch it. Netflix are certainly producing some interesting films. Ditch the BBC.

    43. boris says:

      His thuggish behaviour, from the time he first arrived on the political scene in Scotland, is completely at odds with the conduct of the leader of Scotland-in-Union, Alastair Cameron and it is surprising Cameron has retained him in an important role.

      But it might be Scottish politics will need to accept Skinner, warts and all.

      He intends to stand for election, as a Labour MSP, in Paisley in 2021.

      To be to be fair Skinner enjoys the backing of many of his Glasgow Rangers and Ulster Loyalist supporters who heavily promote the benefits and history of the notorious “Haghill Powery”

    44. jfngw says:

      Switched on Scotland Tonight, spotted Sweeney & Greene and somebody from SNP. question was basically, what’s wrong with the new Tory immigration policy. That’s enough of that, switched off.

      It looks like the networks have been told to normalise the unacceptable. Tomorrow they will be telling us that troops on the street is the norm in many countries, could it be good for us.

    45. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Just seen a new article, UK and German immigration: a tale of two very different laws

      Archived to help keep your hands clean: 🙂

    46. Clootie says:

      What is the purpose of tha Labour Party now? What do the stand for? Why do people in Scotland vote for them?

    47. Cubby says:

      For those who like forecasts mine still has legs and is getting near the finishing line.

      No deal Brexit will be the midwife that helps produce a United ireland and an independent Scotland.

      Britnats who are to dim to realise – some advice – this is when you should start getting nervous, really really nervous.

      Talking about forecasts Rockshit has gone quiet about his snapbrexit forecast catching the SNP unawares. In fact has Nostrabamus ever got any forecast correct.

    48. Thepnr says:


      Glad you liked it, who needs the BBC for entertainment? Ditch it.

    49. yesindyref2 says:

      Jings, these threads are coming 5 a minute. Oh well.

      Apparently” the EU no-deal Brexit plan also involves building a frontier along la Manche and up the North Sea as far as Berwick. It’s to be called “Adrienne’s Wall”.

      [1] the quotes around “apparently” mean I just made it up.

    50. Cactus says:

      Let it NOW be known People of Scotland and the wider community, that both The Labour & The Tory Parties have CHOSEN to continue to leave everybuddy in the dark about their futures, during and throughout these 2018 festive times, with no clear direction of what is going to happen next. Seasons Greetings from Westminster!

      2019 at midnight, wae Auld Lang Syne, THAT’S when Scotland will surge.

      5 gold ring days remaining to go till Jesusmas.

      Seven further days till NYD2019.

      2019 will be Our Yes Year.

      Yes 2 Year 2019.

    51. cearc says:

      La Manche to be known as May’s Moat.

    52. geeo says:


      That will be labour party policy as soon as one of labours little soldiers report back on what you said…(har)!

    53. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah well now, if you take 2019, add its numbers and you get 12 for the 12 days of Christmas. Divide by 3 for the 3 wise men and you get 673 and THAT’S a prime number! Add the digits of 673 and you 16 – and that’s a perfect square. Add the numbers 1 and 6 and you get 7 for the days in a week.

      Therefore 2019 is indeed the year of Indy.


    54. Tackety Beets says:

      Legerwood @ 11.05 pm

      Thanks for the link , thats the clip I was ref in my post on last thread.

      Couldnt get link sorted via my mobile.

    55. Cubby says:


      I think you need a rest.

    56. Cactus says:

      Checked your calcs out yesindyref2…

      Yep, it checks good 🙂

      Yes Year 2019.

    57. Tam says:

      The labour party is English,,,,there is no such thing as Scottish labour

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      That IS me having a rest 🙂

      Cheers Cactus, would have been a shame if I messed up!

    59. Mogabee says:


      What an awful story about the homeless guy. If the info in the article is correct about his age and name it’s even more shocking. He is the same age as my son. No age to die outside in one of the richest countries.

    60. Cubby says:

      Tuned into BBC newsnight. Not done so for a while – will not be rushing back. Headline story – what did Corbyn say. Turned off pretty quickly. No mention of the clearly (no lip reading required) stated ugly racist comment to Blackford about clearing off back to Skye.

      Insults to Scots don’t count as far as the BBC is concerned. Just following the normal order of things. The jocks micks and taffys are there to be insulted and laughed at.

    61. Dr Jim says:

      It used to be about which way Labour were facing when they lied now all their heads are on swivels just spinning around trying to say the same things as Theresa May but using different words

      I have to say that today I’m taking great comfort from the amount of English people starting to notice that both wings of the Blue and Red Tories are the same party and even though the media work desperately hard at keeping Nicola Sturgeon off the telly screens so nobody will find out, her very very brief appearances in England are really having the effect of giving the English people a wee jolt of Scottish realism and truth, and they’re taking it in and for a change beginning to understand what the SNP actually stands for and it’s not the Nazi Faragey nonsense they’ve been led to believe

      Once Scotland has separated itself from the rotten festering maul of Westminster politics I see an England angry for change and Scotlands success will be the catalyst for it

      Kinda makes you proud eh, oh, and oor wee FMs storming it, that’s another wee proud, what a day, what a day, I’m aw taen away wae masel

    62. James Sneddon says:

      It’s more than obvious that Labour want to see the negotiations fail and for the Tories to take the UK out of the EU with a NO deal. Labour then thinks it will be a “shoe in” to win the next election. The current leader of the Labour party and their MPs are not the brightest in the parties history. While we’re witnessing the slow lingering death of the union, the Labour party won’t be too far behind.

    63. Has anyone tried switching the Labour Party off and on again?

    64. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Donald Urquhart @ 01:04,

      Not yet. That’s what independence is about. (For those that do still care about the party, anyway.)

    65. Macart says:

      No. Neither party covered itself in glory today. Not the Conservatives and not Labour. They both blinked and let people know exactly what they stood for and exactly what they consider important. It wasn’t the interests of the people.

      I think this tweet captures the essence of Westminster politics in a nutshell.

      Nail squarely hammered on head really.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, she’s pretty good, I read other tweets.

      Dare I say “Clever woman”?

    67. Al Dossary says:


      Maybe I need to hijack my kids Netflix account again to watch some of these “interesting” movies. She’s still in a huff though since the last time I did so i watched “Spongebob the movie” etc and screwed up her recommended play lists.

      Once upon a time the BBC were the producers of topical, interesting movies on Play for today. As a youngster those were above my comprehension, but now – dynamite.

      Unfortunately the shysters at the beeb have chickened out of making most of them available through their iplayer. Maybe only 25% are availbLe. I guess most of them are just too controversial, were shown just one time and never repeated.

      Just waiting on tge 21st century version of “Boys from the Blackstuff” – thats where Britain is heading tight now with all this Brexshit.

      If anyone has a copy of “United Kingdom” from the play for today series let me know!

    68. Frank Gillougley says:

      Off for my early shift. some of us still have to work for a living! Oh well I’m Spartacus then.
      have been out of the loop for a while because of this work lark.
      I just see a huge chasm between very well paid politicians and the social reality for many.
      I want to make it mandatory for politicians to gain work experience in the gig economy. Yes, Amber YOU. I want YOU to get up at 4.30 am and do an 8 hour shift sorting parcels – that just might teach you a bit of humility!
      good morning all.

    69. Tam says:

      England’s leader is a stupid woman, according to Red Tory leader Corbyn

    70. Graf Midgehunter says:

      After yesterdays various fiascos in London, you’ve got to ask yourself when the tumbrils will finally be trundling along to Trafalger Sq..
      When will the sheep wake up?

      Gilet jaunes would keep the troops busy… 🙂

    71. Graf Midgehunter says:

      More info from the EU. Leading – not panto.

      Questions and Answers: the consequences of the United
      Kingdom leaving the European Union without a ratified
      Withdrawal Agreement (no deal

    72. Lucia Daines says:

      Ear worm courtesy of the Velvet Underground –

      It’s just a stupid day.

    73. Nana says:

      Released yesterday
      Questions and Answers: the consequences of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a ratified Withdrawal Agreement (no deal Brexit)

      NoDealBrexit means a hard border in Northern Ireland, tiny quotas & tarrifs up the wazoo. The UK has no draft schedules in place & has not enough time between now & leave date to sort it out. Listen here for more terrifying detail.

    74. Luigi says:

      I wait patiently for the Daily Record’s headine:

      “Cowards! Another Labour Let-down!”

      to follow-on from their now infamous:

      “Corbyn in for the Kill!”

      After all, you start a big story, you provide the conclusion, right?

    75. Nana says:

      Rooted in an imperial past, they can’t see the huge damage that trading on WTO terms would inflict on the UK economy

      “In case of no-deal, 1.5 million Brits in the EU will be illegal immigrants overnight”

    76. Nana says:

      On Thursday, December 13 Sir Ivan Rogers delivered a hard-hitting speech to the University of Liverpool’s Heseltine Institute for Public Policy, Practice and Place.

      India to overtake UK in IMF global economic rankings

    77. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Graf Midgehunter

      Troops on the streets of England, will never happen. Using Her Majesty’s armed forces to quell civil disturbance is only to be considered when those doing the disturbing are Jocks, Micks and Taffs.

    78. Cactus says:

      Listen in…

      Scotland’s Mike Russell to speak on RS just after 8am.


    79. Tam fae somewhere says:

      Is it just me but is the Gatwick airport closure all over the news just manufactured shit?

      Dead easy to get a drone flown over the airport and then cancel all flights. Wall to wall coverage of non Brexit news for very little effort. Who would fly a drone at 4am and who would see it at that time?

    80. Dorothy Devine says:

      Mornin’ Nana – all went well?? ready for my links, coffee at hand.

      Mornin’ Cactus and everyone else!

    81. Ken500 says:

      BBC £3.7Billion and the rest. People have to pay £10 a month for Netflix to watch old movies and Jack Taylor. (Ireland). Amazon has all the sport and tennis. Tax evaders. Choice was supposed to make things cheaper. Not happening.

      May’s husband firm has not paid corporate tax for eight years. Yet paid Diectors got £43Million in salaries. Claim they make a loss. More tax evasion?

      The May and the Tories will get voted down 14th January. Labour did not start it.

      Two migrants arguing about migration nos. They have no shame. Corbyn’s wife is ‘foreign’,so is Hunt’s, Neil’s wife, Tompkin’s wife. All migrant families in Westminster. Will they get chucked out? Like other people. Lying hypocrites troughing public money.

      May’s deal costs more for less rights. Unaffordable red tape and bureaucracy for businesses. Already struggling with the false austerity, Totally uneccessary.

      Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster policies. The population has stagnated. Scotland should have a different migration policy.

      If the Westminster stupids what less migration. They should stop bombing the world to bits.

      Germany has 20% migrants and 3% unemployment. In surplus. A higher population. 90Million.

      England is the 2nd most populated country in Europe. London voted Remain, The most congested area. Places where there is absolutely no migrants (Wales) voted Leave. NI voted Remain. DUP is not representative of Ireland. A minority.

    82. wull2 says:

      Squirrel fies Drone. Oh YES it has.

    83. Macart says:


      Mornin’ Nana. 🙂

      Toast in hand and feet firmly baffied, I shall sally forth (if not fifth) into the morning read. I may be some time.

    84. Nana says:

      Morning Dorothy. I am having to wait until January to begin a new drug regime, until then taking it easy 🙂

      Nicola passing on the spirit of Christmas

      Stupid Westminster pantomime

      Click the link

    85. Nana says:

      Morning Macart

      My advice “wear wellies” 🙂

    86. Nana says:

      For anyone who may have missed Nicola’s exit from No 10

      Mark Stone says
      Have a watch of this little collection of voices I’ve gathered today – the tangible impact of continued uncertainty over #Brexit with just 99 days to go…

    87. Ken500 says:

      Dimbleby gone. Another one another one gone another one hits the dust.

      The unionist Councils are spending money like there is no tomorrow. Borrowing and spending on empty shops offices and underoccupied hotels. Helped by the Greens. The tram fiasco etc. Then cutting essential services. Total hypocrites. They blocked the AWPR for years. Funded by landowners not wanting land to be brought back in to public use. It cost twice as much. Hypocrites and liars.

      The Scottish budget has been cut 10% a year. Totally unnecessary. Now £3Billion less. The tax revenues raised in Scotland have increased. Scotland pays £Billions in loan repayments, not borrowed or spent in Scotland. UK sponsored tax evasion. Scotland can’t borrow to grow the economy. Too much is spent on Trident and Defence. The Oil & Gas sector mismanaged. Losing 120,000 jobs, Fishing mismanaged by Westminster for years. Throwing back dead fish. Farming mismanaged. Westminster took £Millions of CAP payments from Scotland.

      Illegal wars, tax evasion, financial fraud have cost Scotland £Billions. £Billion secretly and illegally taken to fund London S/E.

    88. Proud Cybernat says:

      Labour – the party who say one thing in public – and another thing in public.

    89. cearc says:

      Lucia Daines,

      You deserve eternal banishment for that!

    90. exile says:

      Welcome back Nana! I hope you’re well. Many, many thanks for your invaluable links.

    91. cearc says:


      And Miners?

    92. Cactus says:

      Tune in today at noon for the last #fmqs of 2018.

      Let’s hope it’s a good one…

      Without any fear.

      Misty Isle 🙂

    93. Legerwood says:

      Tackety Beets says:
      20 December, 2018 at 12:10 am
      Legerwood @ 11.05 pm

      Thanks for the link , thats the clip I was ref in my post on last thread.

      Couldnt get link sorted via my mobile.””


      I saw the interview on the news then saw the reference to it on the previous thread so went looking for it by which time there was a new post. Still relevant on this thread though

    94. Nana says:

      Morning exile, thank you 🙂

      Here’s a couple more

      Cool. Suppliers of fridge mountain required for NHS medicines stockpile because of No Deal Brexit
      Criminally incompetent Government

    95. I would find the antics of Labour hilarious, if it weren’t for the damaging impact Brexit is going to have on the economy, peoples jobs and standard of living.

      Labour is nothing more than a seriously bad joke, of course none of this will bother Labour politicians like Jermy Corbyn as unlike his constituents he will be reasonably insulated from the full affects of Brexit

    96. Luigi says:


      Is there anyway of checking Gordon Ross’s videos without joining Facebook or Twitter?

      I usually simply use Nana’s links or check out YouTube, but the latter are now horrendously out of date, for some reason (last posting in October)!

    97. Colin Alexander says:

      If there’s a GE before 29 March 2019, what do you think should be the SNP main manifesto pledges:

      1. An Even Stronger Voice for Scotland at Westminster: We’ll all shout at once

      2. Another lock on the “triple” lock to make a “quadruple lock” on a Scottish Parliament indyref, a lock so big, it could be in the Guinness Book of Record but, won’t be recognised by the UK Supreme Court or UK Govt

      3. Vote SNP, so the SNP can offer to vote for Labour in the Commons, so we can pretend that SNP MPs being in UK Parliament ever achieves anything useful for Scotland?

      4. A majority of SNP MPs will be a mandate for Scotland’s MPs to vote to decide whether Scotland Leaves or Remains in the EU, exercising Scotland’s people’s sovereignty as an equal partner in the UK. This vote must be respected by UK Parliament, or the SNP MP’s will form a National Convention on Independence for all Scotland’s democratically elected MPs and MSPs. They will vote on dissolving the UK Union as the representatives Scotland’s people’s sovereignty.

      5. Something else, please specify

      What would be your choice between: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ?

    98. Nana says:

      Morning Luigi

      If you scroll down the facebook link I provided at 7.41am you will be able to watch the latest video.

    99. Shinty says:

      Murdo Fraser getting is arse handed to him on a plate.

    100. Shinty says:

      oops, that would be ‘his’

    101. jfngw says:


      This always works for me, you can’t view all the comments without joining but the videos are ok. I use Firefox, don’t know about other browsers.

    102. Robert says:

      Both Labour and the Tories have simple consistent policies on Brexit, but not the ones they articulate.

      Labour want Brexit, and then to be able to blame the consequences on the Tories. So they will snipe from the sidelines, but not do anything effective.

      The Tories (or at least Mrs May) want the May deal. Their route to getting it is to waste time and frighten us with a nasty hard Brexit, making us believe there is no alternative to the May deal.
      There is a viable alternative (of no Brexit), but both major parties won’t let it be discussed.

      Fortunately, Scotland does have a way out.

    103. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 09:25,

      Well, Coco, there’s infitesimally-small chance of a UKGE in that time scale, since your beloved Corby is gutless. The vulture hopes to pick the bones post-Brexit, not before, because he hasn’t a clue and doesn’t want any of the blame. And probably wouldn’t win even then, since he’s so useless.

      Why are you asking about the SNP anyway? That’s so off-topic. Your obsession is getting out of hand. Seek medical advice. Or just get a life.

    104. yesindyref2 says:

      Hi Nana, thanks for the links, a lot of court stuff today, yum yum. From Aileen McHarg’s blog:

      Subject to any other restrictions on its competence, though, there would be nothing to stop Holyrood legislating after the event to make UK Ministerial powers affecting devolved matters subject to Scottish Government consent, just as it could amend them in other ways, or even repeal them altogether.

      I don’t get this one, unless it’s to do with “spent” legislation, but it doesn’t look like it. If it isn’t, it’s an additional bonus I think to what was already actually good generally. I think the UK Gov got a “jolly good” thrashing anyway, that would make it almost complete.


      Incidentally, for those who think the UKSC is a tool of the establishment, it clearly ain’t. It does its job of preserving and interpreting Law and the Rule of Law, with reference to logic and use of language, in the actual Acts. Also her conclusion:

      In choosing to press its tactical advantage, the UK Government may yet find that it has committed a(nother) strategic error in its handling of the devolved aspects of Brexit.

      Yes indeed. In many ways. It could be the UK Gov threw its “reserve” (pardon the pun) devisions in to take a hill with great sacrifice, only to find there’s a bypass been built in the meantime.

    105. Breeks says:

      For once I cannot wait for Parliamentary Recess over Chistmas. I need a break from listening to this interminal treadmill of superfluous drivelshite, while my wee country only now begins to contemplate why the good ship Britannia is heading full steam towards a place where there’s a deep rumbling sound and the horizon apparently disappears.

      I’ve got my life preserver on. It says “Revoke Article 50” beside a little saltire, and there’s a loop where you attach an EU lifeline to… but where is the lifeline to attach?

      There’s talk amongst some of the passengers about turning the whole ship around. The crew dismiss the suggestion, but even with the crew onside, the current seems faster these days, and frankly, I fear we’d struggle making headway against the current even if we did turn around.

      For now, I’m good, because I’m wearing my EU life preserver. But if I wait it too long, if we dither and wait until we are right at the abyss, it’s not the life preserver I need, but a parachute. I don’t have one of those, and even if I did, what misery would I find upon landing?

    106. robertknight says:

      Clowns to the left of us / Jokers to the right, here we are / Stuck in the mire without EU

    107. mike cassidy says:

      Clearly the main SNP manifesto pledge will be that nobody has to read any more postings from Colin Alexander.

    108. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 10:27,

      The problem with the UKSC is that it isn’t a proper Supreme Court with a proper written constitution to defend. It can’t even muster a decent defence of those matters which are concrete such as the Treaty of Union 1707, preferring instead to funk the issue at every turn as “too political”.

      If the court did its job properly and started to properly defend Scots Law against 300+ years of English constitutional depredation, instead of supinely turning a Nelsonian blind eye towards it, it might have begun to earn our respect.

    109. yesindyref2 says:

      @Breeks “I’ve got my life preserver on. It says “Revoke Article 50” beside a little saltire, and there’s a loop where you attach an EU lifeline to… but where is the lifeline to attach?

      Enjoy your festive break, and hope that your life preserver might turn out to be much better than that.

    110. Marcia says:

      Another embarrassment of the year is wasting money on Trident where your enemies only need to fly a few camera drones to attack you. If this Gatwick Airport stunt they have spent a couple of hundred pounds and what have the Tory government spent?

    111. Luigi says:

      Shinty says:

      20 December, 2018 at 9:54 am

      Murdo Fraser getting is arse handed to him on a plate.


    112. Dr Jim says:

      Gatwick Airport: The modern way to fight back

      Just a small example of how easy it is to disrupt an entire country’s economy by simple digital means
      Multiply what’s happening there by x whatever you like and expand it to every airport and every train and you don’t have to hurt anybody or fire a shot

      What these folks are doing is fairly low tech but the resulting chaos is costing millions a day just for one airport

      When you can change traffic lights with a laptop there’s almost no end to what you can affect

      Perhaps a lesson to the powerful they’re not as powerful as they think they are

    113. mike cassidy says:

      yesindyref2 10.27

      That point is very interesting, is it not.

      It seems to be saying that

      while Holyrood cannot override Westminster’s power to legislate for Scotland

      it can reject or amend any such legislation.

      If that’s correct, then it does place a very large Scottish cat among the London pigeons.

    114. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim Simples solution to the Gatwick drone problem , since there are no aircraft in the area a .22 rifle will solve the problem toot sweet .

    115. yesindyref2 says:

      From Sionaidh Douglas-Scott’s blog on CCC.

      Judgement was delivered last Thursday by a unanimous UK Supreme Court

      I totally missed the unanimous bit before, never even thought to look. IMHO, that’s pure deid brilliant 🙂

      Mundell also I didn’t see this “The Supreme Court has provided much-needed legal clarity that the Continuity Bill goes beyond the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

      The guy should get himself a dictionary and look up the word “integrity” and try to understand it. Absolutely the worse Secreatry of State, and there’s been a few stinkers, Lang being my previous unfavourite. What a langer he was.

      As she says afterwards and in general perhaps: “Does this not thoroughly undermine the devolution settlement?

      Indeed, and 74.6% in 1997 voted for Devolution, and only 8% now would like to see Holyrood abolished. All we need for Indy is for a good number of the NO voters to see taht Devolution is totally disregarded by the Tories, and Labour in their meek and servile aquiescence to the EU Withdrawal Act, and others.

    116. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Cactus said it:

      “Tune in today at noon for the last #fmqs of 2018.”

      Watch the live truth before the “English Propaganda Service” get the spin going and insults your intelligence. 🙂

      Please Nicola, wield a sharp sword and don’t forget the word, sovereignty…!

    117. Breeks says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      20 December, 2018 at 10:27 am


      Incidentally, for those who think the UKSC is a tool of the establishment, it clearly ain’t. It does its job of preserving and interpreting Law and the Rule of Law, with reference to logic and use of language, in the actual Acts…..

      You’re missing the point. It’s not what the Supreme Court does, (though that is dubious enough altering laws retrospectively), but what the Supreme Court actually is. The UK Supreme Court is in law, what Westminster is in Government:- It is a UK construct which presents itself as the prevailing Authority, but cannot reconcile that Authority with the obstinate problem of Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty which neither Westminster nor the Supreme Court can overrule. The power of the Supreme Court does not come from Constitutional legitimacy, but wilful adherence to a false narrative.

      Let me repeat again what I wrote a couple of days ago… I was talking about Parliamentary Sovereignty, but the same argument holds true for Law and the UK Supreme Court.

      Devolution is the the mother of all distractions.

      Many months ago I asked a question whether Holyrood was empowered by Scottish Sovereignty which I described as red Sovereignty because it came from the blood of the people, or English/UK Sovereignty which I described as white Sovereignty since it was divine from God. So what was Holyrood? Red Sovereignty? White Sovereignty? Pink Sovereignty or Raspberry Ripple Sovereignty?

      Given Holyrood’s capitulation and failure to defend Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty over the Remain vote Scotland returned in 2016, given the fealty before a UK Supreme Court and Holyrood’s acquiescence to accept the blatant disgrace of Sewell and the rewriting of the Law to out manoeuvre Scotland, there can be no question that Holyrood is fuelled by pure white Sovereignty charitably lent to us from Queen Liz and Westminster. I hate to shatter your illusions, but events speak for themselves.

      The only act of red Sovereignty we have seen, since before 2014 in fact, (that is red Scottish Sovereignty from the blood of the Scottish people), has been the bold challenge under Scots Law taken to the ECJ as to whether Article 50 could be withdrawn. It was successful. Red Sovereignty proved unstoppable by white Sovereignty.

      Every day we squander playing games under white Sovereignty where Westminster simply rewrites the rules when it loses is another day lost and another step closer to Brexit. We MUST begin to see our Constitutional situation with much more incisive perception, because we need to step outside this rigged game of white Sovereignty, and displace every molecule of white Westminster sovereignty with Scottish red Sovereignty.

      Holyrood MUST start drawing its power from the sovereign will of the Scottish people, or risk being sidestepped, and purged from Scotland altogether if it insists on remaining a mere delivery mechanism for Westminster subjugation.

      There cannot be pink Sovereignty. Devolution creates the illusion of raspberry ripple Sovereignty, but when push comes to shove, and Brexit is push coming to shove us off a cliff, there is only white Sovereignty and red Sovereignty in a battle for ultimate supremacy.

      Holyrood must choose whether it is our instrument, or theirs. I don’t mean a mere vote on it, I mean on an existential plain. Is it a Scottish Legislature impervious to the UK’s Supreme Court, or a UK Legislature which lies prostrate before the will of it.

      If Holyrood doesn’t start fighting for Scotland’s red Sovereignty, then perhaps it should just get the hell out of the way and prepare to be flushed away like all the BritNat propagandists and shills, and other tools of our subjugation.

      We Scots must take the fight back to the ECJ, under Scots Law, and seek to revoke Article 50 because it was never approved by the sovereign will of Scotland. Scotland stays in Europe. Embed ourselves in Europe, and the EU will defend our Sovereign Backstop with the same tenacity it has defended the Irish Backstop, and the UK will tear itself in two through the rash and intemperate act of England’s secession from Europe, which in turn renders the United Kingdom untenable and defunct.

      Get wise, get on board Holyrood, or get out of the way. It isn’t just Brexit that is running out of time.

      – When we allow ourselves to get bogged down in what the UK Supreme Court says or does, we have already conceded respect to the legitimacy of the Supreme Court. Instead of framing our arguments in“Red” Scots Law, we kid ourselves the answer lies somewhere in the raspberry ripple mix of red and white laws, but the Supreme Court will only ever trade in White Law from Westminster and subterfuge to obscure its primary constitutional illegitimacies.

      I don’t “think” the Supreme Court is a tool of Westminster. It IS a tool of Westminster which cannot wield or overrule the red laws of Scotland. It tries… It tried to prevent the ECJ hearing a case brought before it under Scots Law – but it lost. Do you see it yet? Red Scots Law is potent in Europe.

      We must now test Red Scots Sovereignty. Revoke Article 50. Do you see it now?

      I hope that makes sense to all.

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS “ It can’t even muster a decent defence of those matters which are concrete such as the Treaty of Union 1707, preferring instead to funk the issue at every turn as “too political”.

      It wasn’t asked to by our man Wolffe, and quite rightly. It was asked by both sides in terms of the Scotland Act, and it gave its judgement solely on that, no considerations of the Treaty and Acts, or Claim of Right were asked, and so none given. It worked – correctly – totally within the parameters of the submissions made both by the AG and the LA.

      That wasn’t a mistake.

    119. yesindyref2 says:

      @mike cassidy
      Well, yes, if that’s what it means. Needs some thinking about 🙂

    120. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson

      They’re not allowed to fire shots over the airport at will, they must request permission at each incident

      The drone pilots will know this and stop for a while then restart forcing the airport to keep requesting permission each time until somebody comes up with a better idea which still won’t work even if they catch the perpetrators because there are always more of them to do it all over again

      If you’re organised there’s no end to the disruption you can cause, although if they’re caught I bet the sentence is worse than committing homicide, if it ends up costing government money they bang you up forever

      Murder some punter meh not so much

    121. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmmm, from another article (AMcH and CMcC)

      The Court confirmed that the devolved legislatures do as a general rule have the power to amend or repeal UK legislation, provided that they do not breach specific competence constraints. This is, indeed, such a fundamental feature of the devolution settlements that it was somewhat alarming to see the UK Law Officers attempting to argue otherwise.

      Yes, alarming they did, but fabulous they did and were rejected, as it creates some more unanimous certainty.

    122. Capella says:

      @ Al dossary – you can get your own sign in on Netflix and it’s well worth it IMO. Their own brand films are excellent quality.

      I recently watched the first two seasons of The Crown. Whether you approve of the monarchy or not, this was a top quality production and well written with a great cast. Many of us will remember the events depicted.

      And there’s Outlaw King. The BBC would never have produced anything so relevant to Scotland. I see that its Wikipedia page has republished a “historical inaccuracies” section, now rebranded “historical authenticity”. This section gets a lot of editing. Here’s an intriguing example:

      The color yellow is mostly absent from shirts of the fighting men in the film’s battlefield, but historically, yellow dye was not only the most common dye in Scotland but it was highly favored by the fighters who could afford it as well. Historian Fergus Cannan notes that while many historical writers comment on its prevalence, it never makes appearances in popular culture related to Scottish history.

      SNP colours at Bannockburn!

    123. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, excellent. The context of this next quote is the paragraph before, but in general terms it’s interesting too:

      This reasoning is difficult to understand, since it appears to adopt a formalistic approach to the meaning of modification of a protected statute at odds with the substantive approach the Court stated ought to apply.

      and the rest of that paragraph. I like it 😎

      Mmm, “Alternatively, if neither feels that the sky has fallen down, we might expect to see the disputes about competence that we know go on behind closed doors publicly aired and tested more often in future.

      And possibly much faster. There is precedent after all, now.

    124. Luigi says:


      I posted a couple of links to articles on the sinister BritNat MI.six Int.,egr-ity In-itiat.ive, designed to spread misinformation about JC and R.ussian interference, suggesting that reporter David L.eas.k may be an operative, but they sunddenly disappeared into cyberspace.

      We are being watched. Someone is monitoring this site very closely!!!

    125. ronnie anderson says:

      Dr Jim Just listened to a interview on Bbc with the interviewee saying they cant fire missiles near airports LoL , 20lbs nutcracker

    126. yesindyref2 says:

      Ken Clarke @MrKennethClarke

      In the tea room reading the FT, drinking my usual English Breakfast with a dash of milk. Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn has spent the last 15 minutes standing at the till trying to decide which herbal tea he’s going to have.
      12:35 am – 18 Dec 2018

      Truth is cruel.

    127. Breeks says:

      Dammit… comment in moderation again. I dropped a controversial word out, but clearly not the right word for the moderation filter.

      Sorry Rev Stu…

    128. mike cassidy says:

      heraldnomore 11.37

      When I read this last night, I loved the note

      “No credible Corbyn-like figure on the horizon to take over the SNP at the moment.”

      Thank feck for that, I thought.

      But I now realise that this lot would give up their charity status to have such a target to attack.

    129. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah, so this is what this morning’s Court of Sessions is about, not just straight confimation of ECJ:

      So this morning we will respectfully ask the Inner House to let us finish what we started. We will ask it to set a short timetable for written and then oral arguments on which – the Legislation or the Motion – is the right route. If the Inner House agrees we are likely to adopt an amicus type stance in the arguments.

      It’s to clarify HOW A50 can be revoked.

      Sorry Nana if you already linked this.

      Right, ciggy and back to work.

    130. Ken500 says:

      Anyone can google or whatever a twitter site. You do not have to be on twitter to google it. It is open to everyone. If you are not on it, you just can’t comment.

    131. Ken500 says:

      Moderation can come up on comments. It doesn’t mean anything. Just that the site is busy. Shorten the comment or do two.

    132. Donald Bruce says:

      Read with interest that the Tory MP for Angus is slightly annoyed that there be problems obtaining migrant workers after Brexit. Does her Farm business now not wish to employ higher waged local labour from the doll. She must be thicked skinned to sit below her Tory English who are muttering and shouting anti Scottish cheek to the SNwp

    133. call me dave says:

      Jings! Jackie Baillie says thanks and weeps! Ah well!

      Meanwhile Wee Wullie R demands the FM to kick big Labourers a*r*e
      about a people’s vote. Shurley schome mishstake Wullie.

      Then he has a free rant at Richard Leonard and gets telt frae the
      PO for his troubles.

      “Its not for the FM to answer questions to the Labour party” 🙂

    134. Breeks says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      20 December, 2018 at 11:56 am

      ….It’s to clarify HOW A50 can be revoked.

      To quote the article…

      “But there is still one question outstanding.

      The CJ decision means MPs know what EU law requires – a decision to revoke taken in accordance with our constitution. But they do not yet know what our constitution says about how to revoke.”

      As I read it, the Constitutional imperative is to get Westminster MP’s to revoke Article 50.

      Running parallel with this endeavour, should be a sister Constitutional test case running to establish whether Scotland can cite Constitutional Sovereignty backed by democratic mandate to revoke Article 50 unilaterally.

      We Independentists seem to be awfully, awfully British in our thinking.

      Tell me I’m wrong.

    135. wull says:

      Apologies for re-posting the below, which I sent to the previous thread (alliance of silence) late this morning, when everyone had already switched to this one. Lying parliamentarians is the subject, so it is relevant to this thread too, since Rev. Stu exposes Labour’s lies. Even if it concentrates on / begins from the diversionary fiasco about what Jeremy Corbyn did or did not mean when his lips moved … As if that mattered, while the future of everyone on these islands is on a knife-edge. It also follows up on what ‘robert galloway’ says above, at 9.22 pm last night, which I thoroughly agree with.

      Here it is (slightly amended):

      With regard to his muttering ‘stupid woman’ under his breath, in his defence Jeremy could just say:

      “Of course I said it. But I was lying. So what’s wrong with lying? That’s what right honourable gentlemen do. They lie. (Remember Carmichael.) It’s allowed. And right honourable ladies do it too. It’s called Parliamentary Privilege. The only thing you are not allowed to do in this House is to accuse any ‘right honourable’ – whether male or female – of lying. To make such an accusation would be dishonourable, and I didn’t do it – so, what’s your problem?”

      “But you said she was a ‘stupid woman’, didn’t you?”

      “Yes, but she is a ‘woman’ … And the rules in here, in this House – Parliamentary Privilege and all that – show that all of us (in here) are ‘stupid’, don’t they?


      “Because the rules say ‘we are allowed to lie’, but they also insist that ‘we are not allowed to call each other liars’. That’s stupid, isn’t it? So what’s wrong with ‘a stupid man’ like me calling a female member of this House like her ‘a stupid woman’? So where’s your problem?”

      “So you mean you were telling the truth after all when you said ‘stupid woman’?”

      “Yes”, says Jeremy.

      “Well, in that case you were lying when you said ‘I was lying’, weren’t you?”, say his persecutors. “Because you were actually telling the truth: she (whoever ‘she’ is – you didn’t specify) IS what your lips suggested she IS!”

      “Well, yes”, says Jeremy, since he has no way out. “Yes, I was lying when I said I was lying. Because in fact I was telling the truth: she IS a ‘stupid woman’. Like I AM a ‘stupid man’. If you want non-sexist language we could all be ‘Stupid B’s’ … But there’s nothing wrong with lying in this House, is there? It’s allowed. It’s OK. It’s ‘normal procedure’.So what’s wrong with me lying when I said I was lying? What’s your problem? What’s your case against me?”

      “My point is that you, as a Right Honourable Liar, a privileged member of this extraordinarily privileged Mother of Parliaments, went and told the truth. And you did so, even while sitting on these very green benches, in this very house. That is disgraceful, and ought to be shouted down! Call in the braying herds …”

      “Braying herds …? wait a minute … What did you just say …?”

      “Yes: the ‘Standards Committee’ will have to investigate this atrocious and abnormal breach of normal procedure since you are supposed to exercise Parliamentary Privilege while seated in this chamber. Who allowed you to tell the truth? … And don’t say it was only your lips moving, without actually saying anything… That’s no defence: you are obliged to exercise your truth-denying privileges in this House whether you are on your feet making a speech from the floor (which Hansard will record), sitting down mumbling to yourself through your beard (which Hansard will ignore), or merely silently moving your lips in such a manner that the microphones pick up nothing since your communication was actually wordless (in which case Hansard has no words to write down anyway).”

      “As I was saying: What did you just say? Now I have you!” says Jeremy. “You just called me a Liar, which I am. You said I was a Right Honourable Liar! Which I am. That is clean contrary to the rules. You will pay for this. How dare you ignore Parliamentary Procedure in this way? Whatever or whoever I am, so long as I sit in this chamber you may not use any of my lies – whether uttered or not uttered, chewed through my beard or simply mouthed through lips from which no sound pours forth – you may not use any of these things in order to call me a Liar. How dare you ever tell the truth in this chamber?”

      And so it goes on …

      Meanwhile, amidst all this unreality steamed up in a nebulous cloud in order to divert the population from getting any news of what is actually happening in regard to exiting the EU, something which will affect everyone’s lives enormously, the UK continues its headlong rush over the cliff.

      And its crumbling (UK) parliament, eaten away from the inside by the lying LabCon termites who currently inhabit it, sinks ever more swiftly into the mud from which it arose.Finally extinguished by its own irrelevance, that crumbling ruin – the Palace of Westminster – will soon be overrun by the rats rising from the Thames. If that has not actually happened already – read the architectural survey report explaining why it needs billions spent on it to save it from its own destruction.

      Nothing worth saving there, except the neo-Gothic of the Pugin facade. And since it is only a facade anyway, saving that bit would be a fitting memorial to it.

      Wasn’t this ridiculous sideshow, this diversion from the real debate so urgently needed, just a further expression of the UK’s final demise? Not to mention its moral bankruptcy, its sheer political emptiness and its imminent return to the primeval chaos – that is, to ultimate non-existence …

      The UK is finished: and – allow me to say it – what a sad sight it is to see it end in such a humiliating and disgraceful fashion. When it could have died with some dignity – and even graciously, if it had so chosen – if we had won the referendum in 2014.

      Instead, it seems to be committing suicide in front of our very eyes. In our living rooms, on our televisions. For all the world to see, looking on in disbelief.

      Truly, not a pretty sight – and not something to relish, or take pleasure in … Suicide is always tragic … you cannot but shed a tear for the self-inflicted victim and all the unnecessary harm inflicted … Who would have thought it would all end like this?

      Even if, all the same, we here in Scotland will be glad to be at last unshackled from all this nonsense. Set free to get on with our own lives in comparative sanity, and peace. Nicola sturgeon will be glad of that – she has been working for it all her life, far more than me and most of us – but I am sure she will be sorry, as will I, to see it happen in such circumstances. We don’t actually want our neighbour to be devastated in this fashion. Not at all. But we can’t prevent her from making her own choices …

      The situation can still be saved, to the advantage of all of us – both Scotland and England – but the chances of that happening look slimmer by the day … Such is the madness that seems to have taken hold. The termites – and the rats – seem to be in full control. the cliff beckons, and so does the swamp on which Westminster so shakily stands.

    136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 11:12,

      I should add to that, at the time the Scottish Parliament was re-convened, the constitutional principle was established “that everything not reserved is devolved”. It seems (to me anyway) that UKGov actions since have breached that fundamental principle, yet the Supreme Court has so far signally failed to defend it in any meaningful way, all because of a solitary weasel word in an Act of WM. English constitutional theory overrules all.

      I’m genuinely puzzled though as to why Lord Wolfe wouldn’t have queried that, and why you seem to believe that this was the correct course of action to take. It seems to me that constitutional challenge is a potentially powerful line of attack, not least because of its critical importance for progressing (or stalling!) Art.50. Yet it is being dreadfully neglected…

    137. Nana says:

      BRILLIANT day in the Court of Session on the Scottish Case. Total vindication, Article 50 can be revoked, we don’t need to do this. Congratulations

      Comprehensive win at the Court of Session. Article 50 can be revoked and even UK Government attempt to deny our expenses is rejected

    138. Effijy says:

      Could I request Nicola instructs her MPs to cut to the chase and announce that Corbyn and the gutless Labour Party have only left one door open now and that is to sign up to May’s embarrassingly
      pathetic Brexit Deal.

      We remind the house that this is a major change and a vast majority of Scots voted to Remain in the EU, therefore we are about to hold a true referendum.

      Some 10% plus of Scots voted to remain in the UK as this was port raid as the Only option for us to stay within the EU.

      If this and every other blatant lie and false promise made by the Unionist is taken into account and the disrespect and denial of Scotland’s Westminster representatives in “debate” is highlighted
      we must break away from these greedy immoral colonial raiders.

    139. Nana says:


      I knew you would like those legal links this morning 🙂

    140. Stu., I voted to leave the E.U. Because I believe it is a buisiness paradise cheap labour from all over Europe so the wages for our own people are kept low we have to share our hospitals schools housing etc., all built by the taxes we have paid for years while business does all it can to avoid paying ANY tax if local people were paid a fair wage we would do those jobs but why bother when you can get the cheap eu., workers to do them charity begins at home train our own people as we did before I am 80 years old and we never needed these people in the past and to use terms like Crash out is playground stuff we are just leaving

    141. Dr Jim says:

      @ronnie anderson

      Missiles! brilliant, see when yer oot withoot yer gun ye come accross them eh?

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, indeed, luvly jubbly!

      One thing to add, the Court of Sessions “was not inclined to adjudicate upon the ‘how to revoke’ question (see here: …). We believe this landmark litigation has now concluded. Thank you for your support.

      There was the possibility, and they’d have needed maybe another £100,000 to pursue, now they don’t.

      I daresay a few bottles will be imbibed …

      As far as I can see it, there are possible parallel routes. Easiest is the “British” way, and if that works, why bother making it harder I guess. Doesn’t stop other routes if neccessary.

      It wasn’t the Court’s job, and I think it’s a case of keeping it simple and getting more data. Courts do Law, not politics. Doesn’t stop further steps, and more complicated – and older – arguments in future, and we already saw Wolffe introduce them into the Miller Appeal where ultimately, though referenced, they weren’t used in the final judgement. Hence still leaving them hanging over for the future.

      It’s a case of “keep it simple”, and perhaps progressive steps but only if needed. That’s how I see it anyway.

    143. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Blair Paterson @ 12:52,

      There doesn’t seem to be an idiocy to which you don’t subscribe. I think you have entirely the wrong website – you want to find one dedicated to batshit mental xenophobe zoomers. Then I expect you’ll feel right at home.

    144. yesindyref2 says:

      Oh, one more thing. The whole ECJ and UKSC thing strengthens the Court of Sessions I think, it had been being weakened for a good few years.

      Oh, one more thing. Wolffe’s wife was/is a Senator of the inner Court of Sessions.

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      Wowsie. I don’t mean bias of any sort, I just mean “it’s in the family”.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      Shit. LAW I mean. And respect for it.

    147. Mike says:

      Embarrassment of a lifetime is the fact that 51% of the Scottish electorate are willing to still vote either Tory or Labour.
      It means that over 51% of the Scottish electorate are not living with or dealing with their own reality in any way shape or form.
      It means that over 51% of the Scottish electorate are going through life drowning beneath self imposed delusion self deceit self unawareness and with a one eyed blinkered view of their own existence. I can find no other explanation for this phenomena.

    148. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 12:59:

      Courts do Law, not politics.

      Oh, absolutely. But that’s my very point. The SC has explicitly deferred to politics when it should have been deploying constitutional Law. But that doesn’t sit well with established British English constitutional theory that WM is suoreme, and can do what it damn well pleases.

    149. manandboy says:

      Outside the Brexit Circus tent, there is the opportunity to step back and ponder what it’s all about. The whole world knows that leaving the EU has enormous consequences for the UK, only a few of which will be beneficial. Brexit is an act of very grave self harm by the UK Brexit voters and by the UK government.

      So why do it. This Tory government has, presumably, weighed up the losses involved in leaving the EU, and concluded that on balance, out is better than in. But the Government’s explanation of the reasons why out is better than in, simply don’t add up. And the whole world knows it. Yet the Government is doggedly pursuing its Brexit goal. Why?

      To make sense of the decision by Brexit voters is one thing, but to then make sense of the Government’s stubborn promotion of Brexit in the face of imminent chaos and catastrophe, we need something else, another explanation . Something which makes sense of the Brexit induced UK suicide-in-progress.

      There is a reason. There is a reason for everything. The Tory Government’s reason for promoting such a drastic step as Brexit however, has not yet been revealed by Theresa May, nor has it been deduced by anyone in politics or in any media platform. The conclusion is that either there is in fact no other hidden explanation, and that Brexit as it stands, with its unique poverty of logic, reason and consequences, from either a political, business or cultural point of view, is as it is and is simply beyond any reasonable explanation.

      Me, I am persuaded that this Tory Government would not be so hell-bent on leaving the EU, were it not for Scotland’s colossal energy wealth, both known and as yet undiscovered, added to the Establishment’s franchise on power & wealth in the UK including its offshore tax-free arrangements, together with the unspoken right to be considered above the law, as with the Westminster paedophile rings.

      In all this, the one sane solution for Scots is Independence.

      Now its back to the Circus.

    150. Hamish100 says:

      Blair P– you really believe wages in Scotland will increase by leaving the EU. Honestly?

      Wages will go down and unemployment will go up. It is the tory way.

    151. Gary45% says:

      Tories spending a fortune on fridges!
      Tory donors make fridges anyone?? or is that too easy?
      These b*stards are killing people and the media are just as guilty by not reporting the important issues.
      As for the drones over Gatwick, surely it must be “Putin and Hamas” to blame?
      Aye – right!
      It’s a non story. The relevant question is – what/who was getting delivered/shipped through Gatwick in the early hours of this morning???
      “Septic womble”,as Jezza would say.

    152. Breeks says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      20 December, 2018 at 12:59 pm
      Mmm, indeed, luvly jubbly!

      As far as I can see it, there are possible parallel routes. Easiest is the “British” way, and if that works, why bother making it harder I guess….

      Wee matter of recognition for of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, Scotland stays in Europe irrespective of what Westminsterland does, and Westminsterland, if it pushes on with Brexit technically (well nearly technically), secedes from BOTH the EU and UK simultaneously.

      If Scottish BrtiNats want to kick off and riot about Scottish Independence by the back door, their outrage can correctly be referred to Westminster as instigator in chief, rather than Holyrood or Brussels.

    153. Luigi says:

      Why are the MPs swanning off on to enjoy their Christmas break when we are facing the biggest constitutional crisis in a lifetime? How selfish. How stupid! Have they no sense of urgency?

      Is that the priority – one last Christmas before Brexitmageddon? (ok maybe I get that one). Seriously, the MPs should be locked in the HoC until they sort this mess out. Whatever it takes.

    154. Jack Murphy says:

      Scottish Parliament TV. 20/12/2018

      FIRST MINISTER’S QUESTIONS earlier today.

    155. I acknowledge there won’t be a whole load of them on this site, but I have a few questions for those that voted NO in 2014…

      Is the UK shit enough for you yet?

      When it’s a whole load shittier, this time next year, will you still be happily in abeyance of Westminster rule?

      Just how shitty does it have to get before you’ll admit you made one of the biggest mistakes ever, by putting your cross in the NO box?

      When Scotland is independent, how many hours of community service do you think you should have to do to compensate for your ‘dumbfuckery’?

    156. Roert J. Sutherland says:

      Donald Urquhart @ 14:02,

      I know exactly how you feel, but it doesn’t do any good to excoriate those who voted “no” but are now open to conversion, since public humiliation only puts peoples’ backs up and thus backfires.

      The approach I took with an acquaintance the other day who had a surprising reversal of opinion – see my posting

      was to say “you are only going through the same revelation now that I went through a few years back, and it’s a perfectly rational reaction to the ongoing mistreatment we are receiving, and will continue to receive until we are independent and able to act on our own behalf. So, welcome to the fold!”.

      People primed to make a change will already know in their hearts that they made a mistake, and so feel bad enough about it already. Encouragement and positive thinking is what they require now, not finger-pointing and recrimination.

    157. Bob Mack says:

      @Blair Pater son,

      I think you should read up on workers in agriculture over the centuries. Most came from Ireland and post ww2 from Europe.
      All organised by gangers to keep wages low. There has never been well paid agricultural work in the UK.

      Families from poor urban areas also did work on farms to provide a little extra income.

      The old tale of blaming centuries old practices on modern times.

    158. Luigi says:

      Donald Urquhart says:

      20 December, 2018 at 2:02 pm

      I acknowledge there won’t be a whole load of them on this site, but I have a few questions for those that voted NO in 2014…

      Is the UK shit enough for you yet?

      Some will fly
      Others will cry
      The rest will deny
      until they die

    159. Proud Cybernat says:


      One of the favourite tropes of the BritNats is that they will boycott IndyRef2 to try and render the result invalid.

      Well I say – carry right on. Boycotting IndyRef2 will only make a YES victory much more certain. The result will STILL be recognised in UK (see below) and by other countries and international bodies. The Scottish Gov cannot force people to use their vote – boycotting is a legitimate form of protest. The only thing the ScotGov MUST do is to ensure that the defined franchise is fair and reasonable and that everyone has a legal RIGHT TO VOTE within the defined franchise. If you elect not to use your legal vote then that is your democratic right. Just don;t complain then about the outcome.

      And, for the avoidance of doubt that the UK Gov will respect the outcome of a boycotted referendum, we have this example from the UK itself:

      “In the Northern Ireland sovereignty referendum, 1973, voters in Northern Ireland were asked to decide if they wanted to remain in the United Kingdom or to leave and join with the Republic of Ireland. They voted in favour of the United Kingdom by 98.9% to 1.1%, although Irish Republicans boycotted the vote.”

      So, BritNat IR2 boycotters, go right ahead.

    160. starlaw says:

      Drones over Gatwick providing the perfect excuse to get these things under proper Licensed control. Imagine what the IRA could have done with these ‘toys’ against the forces of law and order in Northern Ireland and how they could be used against the forces of law and order on the mainland after a bad Brexit.

      Will be interesting to see if any arrests are made concerning this ongoing and managed incident.

    161. Capella says:

      The Lord Advocate’s address to the Scottish Parliament after the Supreme Court ruling, and the questions from the MSPs is here:

      James Wolffe calmly dismisses a ridiculously OTT whine from Adam Tomkins. He makes it quite clear that the Bill was within competence when it was passed, even though the Lib Dem, Mike Rumbles, who voted with the Tories against the Bill, tries to argue it wasn’t.

    162. Liz g says:

      Starlaw @ 3.25
      Must admit that my first thought too.
      Was … Oh their Brexit Emergency planning must include getting control of drones.

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      @Breeks “Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty

      Thing is, when we’re Independent we don’t care what Westminster thinks, Sovereignty is absolute, not dependent on any court in the world.

    164. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 15:31,

      {irony} Well, Rumbles obviously knows a lot more about the law than the Lord Advocate.{/irony}

      Rumbles is so wonderfully appositely named. Empty barrels and all that…

    165. Proud Cybernat says:

      Another trope of the BritNats is that Scotland leaving the UK will be just as hard, if not harder, than the UK leaving the EU.

      Which is a load of bollox.

      First of all, unlike the membership rules of the EU, the Treaty of Union has no article 50 or equivalent defining how any divorce should proceed. This is to say that, for example, there is nothing to prevent the SCoot Withdrawal Agreement being negotiated simultaneously with a post-indy Trade Agreement with rUK (unlike the EU rules). It would not be in the UK’s interests to refuse to do this but if they did then it would be seen as an act of spite.

      Secondly, if Scotland manages to obtain EU ‘holding pen’ status then we will become the EU’s 28th member upon our Independence Day and will automatically regain fully all the trading rights with the EU (that we currently benefit from) and will also have all the benefits of the 70+ Trade Agreements the EU has already negotiated with countries all over the world (and recently Japan). We would not have to undertake this mammoth, time-consuming task from scratch (unlike the rUK).

      And thirdly, there is no GFA issue to complicate any post-indy border between Scotland and rUK. If we want a hard border then we put it in place, if not then we don’t. It’s simply not the same intractable problem as it is in Ireland.

      I’m sure there are many other reasons why ‘Scoot’ will be much easier to implement than Brexit.

    166. Roert J. Sutherland says:
      20 December, 2018 at 2:41 pm
      Donald Urquhart @ 14:02,

      I know exactly how you feel, but it doesn’t do any good to excoriate those who voted “no” but are now open to conversion, since public humiliation only puts peoples’ backs up and thus backfires.

      You are absolutely right and echo my own behaviour 99% of the time. But watching this ‘clusterfuck’, I occasionally slip into my 1%.

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @Donald Urquhart says: 20 December, 2018 at 1:04 am:

      ” … Has anyone tried switching the Labour Party off and on again?”

      Yes, Donald, I tried that years ago – all I got was the usual MS Windows’ Blue Screen of Death.

    168. galamcennalath says:

      Botris Johnson appears to have been finally arrested and put in handcuffs ….

      Not before time!

    169. North chiel says:

      Liz @0333 p.m. , possibly ideal “ dry run “ for “ no deal” scenario , to include co ordination of civilian & military authorities and more importantly coordination of state propaganda media outlets with the usual Britnat establishment “ war time “ technique of keeping the population “ in the dark” and with the usual robotic intermittent “ serious announcements” from ministerial spokespersons . Of course the hotels, bars, restaurants, shops, taxis will be “ heaving” in the meantime. ( to look on the bright side” ).

    170. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Proud Cybernat

      I hope you are correct in your prediction in the final sentence of your post at 3.53pm.

      “I’m sure there are many other reasons why ‘Scoot’ will be much easier to implement than Brexit.”

      I fear Brexit will be a stroll in the park compared to Brexit. For a start, I get the impression many in the EU will be very happy to be shot of the blasted English; to be free from the effects of English exceptionalism.

      Westminster knows, they cannot afford to let Scotland go. They will never admit it, but, the thought of losing all the benefits they gain from keeping Scotland captured terrifies them – as such, they will fight as never before to hold us. They will use every dirty trick in their well-thumbed and tried book of dirty tricks, plus a few they have perhaps never used before, because they were too-terrible to contemplate.

      Getting free from Westminster will be the toughest battle Scotland has ever faced. But, since Scotland’s troops have been pulling England’ erse out of the fire since 1707, we can, and will do it.

    171. Foonurt says:

      Whin ye huv, Dick ‘Tony Hart’ – thurr day in thoan gallery wae huv Leonard, yurr fuckt.

      Fur Ian Brotherhood : ballboy – ‘The Sash My Father Wore’.

      (No thoan yin.)

    172. wull says:

      Anyone who boycotts a referendum cannot claim that others who boycotted it did so for the same reasons as they did. That might have been their reason, but it might also have been for some other reason that they did so. There is simply no way of telling. And they can’t claim that everyone who failed to vote was a ‘boycotter’ – many don’t vote anyway. So no ‘boycotters’ can ever claim a victory for their point of view, whatever that point of view is. The result of a referendum depends simply on the option that got the most ticks once all the ballot papers are counted – there is nothing else to it.

      Since there are two constitutions at work in the UK, the one condition for a valid unilateral withdrawal of Article 50 according to the judgement of the European court of Justice is very interesting, and extremely relevant to our cause, and our situation.

      That ‘condition’ is that all – repeat ‘all’ – the internal constitutional arrangements of the member state that is revoking its previous decision to set Article 50 in motion, have to be fulfilled.

      According to the English constitution, where Parliament (officially ‘the Queen in Parliament’, but it amounts to the same thing) is supreme, it would be Westminster that has to make this act of revocation. The English constitution bears sway in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. According to the Scottish constitution, which bears sway in Scotland, it is the sovereign people of Scotland who have the ultimate right to revoke Article 50.

      The Scottish parliament can initiate any referendum it wants. It does not have to be the question about independence that is on the ballot paper. It seems to me that the choice could be between the people of Scotland – the Scots – revoking Article 50, or, alternatively, sticking with it. That would be a re-run of the Remain / Leave option on the EU referendum of 2016, this time applied to Scotland only.

      The Scottish government would have to indicate very clearly what would happen in the event of a ‘pro-revoke’ (= Remain in the EU) result. I expect that they would clarify that such a result does not necessarily mean independence. But it could turn out that way if either a) the rUK insists that we have to leave the UK in order to remain in the EU or b) the EU insists the same.

      It could also be clarified that after a pro-revoke vote, the Scottish government would officially inform the EU of the result with a clear explanation of how and why it is constitutionally binding, in accordance with the UK’s constitutional arrangements, to respect the result. The Westminster parliament would also be officially informed of the result. Westminster, too, would have to respect the outcome since, as it has itself agreed only a couple of months ago, the people (and therefore not Westminster, as such) are sovereign in Scotland. According to the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Westminster is not empowered to overrule the sovereignty of the Scottish people.

      If this cannot all be done by 29 March, I suspect the SNP / Scottish government would argue with both the EU and the UK that an extension would have to be granted until such time as the desired referendum can take place, in order to fulfill the UK’s constitutional arrangements. The EU, I am pretty sure, would be accommodating. If Westminster became intransigent and insisted on leaving on the 29th March, as foreseen, I expect the EU would say that they accept this for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but in Scotland’s case will keep Scotland in a ‘holding pen’ until the result of the proposed Scottish referendum is known, so long as it takes place without undue delay (say, by September 2019).

      What actually happens after a pro-revoke result will depend a lot on how the Westminster / the rUK react to it. The Scottish government would still have the prospect of an independence referendum up its sleeve, to be enacted before 2021. this would certainly occur if Westminster faild to negotiate, and continued to act in its habitual stroppy fashion towards us.

      I expect the SNP / Scoottish government might still accede to its original compromise offer of Scotland remaining within the CU and the Single Market, but under certain clearly defined conditions. These, I am confident, would include

      a) that the Scottish parliament and its powers be enshrined in law, and given absolutely secure permanence, in such a way that Westminster can never again undermine them;

      b) that these powers be increased considerably, in accordance with the promises that were made at the end of the 2014 referendum campaign (the ‘vow’ and all that – but, now, it would be the SNp defining these powers, not Lord Smith and his Unionist cronies);

      c) that Scotland’s right to leave the UK Union when and as she sees fit, no doubt by means of a referendum, be fully guaranteed in law and respected ever after;

      d) various other, quite detailed matters relating to the economy (oil, gas, fisheries, agriculture, various other industries); the manner in which UK accounts are kept, ensuring that Scottish income comes to Scotland etc.; and various other matters of a more specifically political nature, which would mean the end of devolution as such and the guarantee of Scotland’s genuine autonomy even within the UK Union.

      I am not saying I would be satisfied with that. I would still want full independence, and an ending of the entity known as the UK once and for all. And I still think that would be the ultimate result.

      Moreover, I believe that the most likely outcome of all this would still remain that independence would in fact happen before 2021. Probably because the current Westminster is so foolish and intransigent that it will concede to nothing.

      Just a possibility, that’s all. many scenarios are possible …

    173. Robert Peffers says:

      Just a wee reminder of what sovereignty really is and who owns it.

      Now I’m not talking law here but reality.

      In the end the reality is that the people will always be ultimately sovereign. Simply because there are more of them. In the first instance sovereignty belongs to those who can exercise it – by force if necessary.

      The biggest, strongest and most aggressive guy in the village assumes he/she is sovereign until another knocks him/her of their throne and thus assumes sovereignty.

      No matter who or what becomes sovereign they must enforce it by some means or other but if the majority of the people decide to oppose them neither force, fear or legislation will prevent the overthrow of an unpopular sovereign by it royal, government, dictator or military junta.

      Quite simply put – the people are ultimately sovereign.

    174. Republicofscotland says:

      Plenty of dark non Scottish money just waiting to be used to thwart Scottish independence.

    175. ScottieDog says:

      @Blair Paterson
      “Stu., I voted to leave the E.U. Because I believe it is a buisiness paradise cheap labour from all over Europe so the wages for our own people are kept low we have to share our hospitals schools housing etc., ”

      Blair, the cheap wages claim is straight out the brexiters playbook.
      The reason we have low wages is down to 40 years of neoliberal U.K. governments. The reason things we’re better before was because the post war governments – up until The mid 70s believed in the benefits of full employment. They weren’t obsessed with deficits. That changed from the thatcher era onwards.

      Low wages, under employment etc is a policy decision – BY THE U.K.
      Privatisation is a strategy of the U.K. government as is de-unionisation. Funnily enough the private firms engaged in a race to the bottom quite likes the fact that Britannia has waived the rules on immigration.

      I’d be more inclined to be sympathetic if you objected to the stability growth pact imposed on Eurozone members (the reason some of my friends and colleagues voted for brexit). The U.K. does NOT have to abide by the pact.

      The EU is a neoliberal beaurocray. Yes it is.
      The U.K. is a neoliberal corporatocracy on steroids.

      Stop blaming the EU for the shambolic 40 years of U.K. governance.

    176. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Republicofscotland @ 16:57,

      Hmmm, if the SG arranges its own “advisory” IR2, it could set the funding rules as well, together with appropriate safeguards and suitably-draconian penalties for any non-trivial infringement.

      I’m beginning to like the notion more and more…

    177. Capella says:

      @ RJS – you can’t argue with a major!

      Rumbles was born in South Shields in England and was educated at St James School in Hebburn, County Durham, Sunderland Polytechnic where he graduated with a BEd, and Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. He served in the Royal Army Education Corps retiring as a Major in October 1994.


      For those interested in the ongoing Integrity Initiative, Dark Money, election/referendum interference, smear campaigns etc all fuelled by our very own Foreign Office – here’s a video by investigative journalist Gordon Dimmack “A Very British Coup: Integrity Initiative update” 27 mins

    178. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      The whole world knows that leaving the EU has enormous consequences for the UK, only a few of which will be beneficial. Brexit is an act of very grave self harm by the UK Brexit voters and by the UK government.


      It’s like someone always wanted a dog for company, so they gouged out their own eyes to be given a guide dog!

      The entire world must see the UK as deranged! Even of stopped, it’s already been an episode of mindless vandalism. It will not bode well for future negotiations and relationships.

      If it goes ahead, especially as a crash and burn no-deal, the world will see a bunch of hopeless fools and suckers just waiting to be ripped off and taken advantage of!

    179. geeo says:

      So…this bit..

      It added: “The revocation must be decided following a democratic process in accordance with national constitutional requirements. This unequivocal and unconditional decision must be communicated in writing to the European Council.”

      The UK Government has stressed it has no plans to revoke Article 50, but anti-Brexit campaigners say the law has now been clarified and remaining in the EU is a clear option”

      Presumably since this is a Scottish court judgement, we can argue that us, as Sovereign Scots, can revoke A.50.

      Our Sovereign rights are part of the only written uk constitution, the Treaty of Union, recently affirmed in the HoC of all places, unchallenged.

      Just like Breeks says !

    180. Tam says:

      May is going to offer MPs her deal or No Deal.

      And the winner is…

      NO DEAL!!!

      Scotland will then go on to vote to become an Independent Nation.

      You see,,,,Brexit does have it’s good sides as well.

    181. Tam says:

      And England will slide slowly and agonisingly into La Manche.

    182. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Robert Peffers at 4:56 pm (Sovereignty)


    183. geeo says:

      May will probably offer a 2nd referendum, her deal or no deal, such is the current insanity.

    184. Liz g says:

      Blair Patterson
      Well, Blair Patterson…. When I’M in my 80s I would like a decent tax base to be funding the same kind of services your enjoying now.
      And I don’t care Where those workers come from!
      I really,really don’t… Why would I?

      Stopping the depopulation of Scotland is an absolute priority.
      Not just because of the future tax base,but to halt the gradual but very deliberate Westminster project of clearing Scotland of peoples,leaving only land and resources.
      We have proof enough they care nothing for the people of Scotland and proof enough they want Scotland!
      I cannot imagine how you cannot see that… because when you do…. You understand immediately the importance of being an international flavoured country..
      Well, ye mibbi no understand it at 8, or even fully at 18,but at 80 ye really should ken better!!

    185. geeo says:

      The might of the Yookay brutally exposed.

      Laughed at by such EU powerhouses like little Ireland and Luxembourg, boasts of being one of biggest high tech arnaments exporter in the world, in the nuclear ‘power’ weapon club…

      2nd biggest Airport Hub in the Uk closed down for 2 DAYS by a one person and a cheap drone…!!!

      Absolute laughing stock.

      Max fly time for drones = 30 mins.

      So…Spot drone, observe with police/army helicopter, follow it until it has to land.

      Even if it is abandoned upon landing, it will almost certainly have useable evidence on it, like fingerprints.

      All else fails, nuke it …hahaha!

    186. Liz g says:

      North Chiel 4.30
      Oh probably something like that..
      Id thought mibbi to prevent drones filming any Establishment response to civil unrest!
      They work hard to get unqualified support for the army they’ll not want to burst that chanti!
      But who knows…?

    187. Liz g says:

      geeo @ 6.38
      Mibbi they canny nuke it cause there’s another drone over Faslane and they canny load the missile

    188. Colin Alexander says:

      Where is the legal case on whether Scotland as a constituent founding member of the UK, if it votes to dissolve the UK Union, can inherit EU membership?

      Similarly, is there a LEGAL process for dissolving the UK Union?

      And what is the legal status of the constituent parts of the former UK?

      Surely these are legal questions just as important as the Brexit Art.50 legal case.

      Also, if Scotland’s MPs were the keepers of Scotland’s sovereignty to create the GB Union of Parliaments, does that mean if a majority of Scots MPs withdrew from UK Parliament and sat at Holyrood, the MPs in the Scottish Parliament would be the keepers of Scotland’s sovereignty?

      Why are such legal questions not being tested in law?

    189. geeo says:

      Lol…good point liz….!!

    190. Gary says:

      I agree entirely that the Labour position on Brexit is entirely disingenuous. Their position on wanting to be in power PRIOR to Brexit is also disingenuous.

      As you’d stated in an earlier article, what they want is a bad Brexit to give them a boost at the polls and THEN get DUP onside for the confidence vote and a win at a GE.

      However, ALL of the coverage on this assumes that somehow no negotiation with the EU could take place beyond March in regard to our future relationship. In fact this is not the case. May’s agreement was only on how we would leave and not on our future relationship. The ‘no-deal’ arrangements being made by both sides at the moment should buy another six months approx. for this to happen.

      Hopefully parliament will use the time to get it’s act together to do SOMETHING. But given their utter intransigence I wouldn’t bet on it.

      The worst thing the government EVER did on this was to enter into an agreement with terrorist-sympathising DUP. These guys just don’t negotiate, they ‘put a gun to your head’ and ’empty your pockets’ as DUP did when they ‘robbed’ the Treasury of £2bn as the price of a ‘Strong & Stable’ government.

    191. Tom Busza says:

      OT Re. UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles aka Drones).

      If this drone causing all the disruption at LGW, or is it maybe more than one, is still causing problems, then I would suggest it may be of military grade as opposed to one you’d normally buy at Hamleys (other toy retailers are, as usual, available) or online. Also, there are plenty of DIY quadcopters available to download and 3D print. These all have limited fly time due to technology generally available.

      I was talking to an “elderly” colleague at the local model railway club here in the Heelans. As a retired ATC and ex RAF ATC, he was very clear that Air Traffic Control (NATS) was warning the government of the dangers of UAVs way back in 1988 and onwards. But, as usual, the government of the time poo-pooed the idea and have done so to this day. Tory/Lab./Tory.

      Expand the scenario at LGW to all major airports and it can clearly be seen that it does not need too many ne’er-do-wells to cause absolute chaos.

      Need I go on?

    192. robertknight says:

      RT article on UK PsyOps in which Leasky gets a mention…

    193. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Liz, there’s no ‘depopulation’ going on, and when comparing Scotland to Norway which has way more land but the same size of population, your assertion extrapolated from the lack of concern from the government seems somewhat fantastical.

      But sure, I’d rather the workers came from Poland than some African or Indian craphole, so viva la EU I suppose.

    194. Tom Busza says:

      Colin Alexander @ 6.48 pm

      Please read previous posts and other posts on other threads. Please cease and desist from trying to use the words “Legal” and “Law” when you obviously have not read what has already been explained over the last few weeks/months.

      I joined this forum and have learnt a lot more in the last few months than I have ever have over the last 70+ years of my life. As I have said on another thread somewhere, I am not a Scot by birth (clue’s in the name [Tom/Tomasso=Italian, Busza=Polish]). Therefore, I do not hide behind an ersatz Scottish name (I apologise if you’re real name is, in fact, Colin Alexander).

    195. Gary45% says:

      Another wee thought on todays shenanigans at Shatwick.
      Drones are supposed to be the future of deliveries, how do you stop competition in its tracks? have a look at the garbage on drone ownership in the media today.

    196. Breeks says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      20 December, 2018 at 4:56 pm

      The biggest, strongest and most aggressive guy in the village assumes he/she is sovereign until another knocks him/her of their throne and thus assumes sovereignty.

      That’s correct, and in England the Romans put the principle to good use, and the Tribes and kingdoms of early Europe put the principle to good use, and developed empires won through bloodshed and oppression which also secured at least perceived legitimacy and acceptance. The Divine Right of Kings might legitimately pass from one defeated King to the Victorious King, and so the Sovereignty went to to the Victor.

      But then along came Scotland, blighted by a powerful aggressor to the South and an alarming propensity amongst Scottish nobility to be seduced by gold, power, and lands in the South, which drew up the Declaration of Arbroath which would enshrine Sovereignty upon the people, putting it beyond the reach of any conquering aggressor, but equally beyond the reach of a duplicitous Scottish nobility.

      Prior to the Declaration of Arbroath, the fact your armies could pulverise your enemies was both the method whereby disputed Sovereignty was settled, but it was still governed by the divine rule of God. The English Army defeated at Bannockburn put the Scots victory down to being the more “Godly” on the day, and kneeling in prayer before the battle started.

      Whether the deliberate intention or not, Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty arose from taking a divine power from God and distributing that power as a terrestrial birthright common to all Scottish people. Did they fully understand the ramifications of what they were doing? Some ramifications surely, desperate men trying to save their imperilled country, but how could they have known after 700 years that the essence of Scotland which they enshrined into the people was still competent?

      You could bring your armies to Scotland, crush our armies, kill or imprison our Monarchs, Lords or Governments, but there was no way to undo what had been done and remove the Scottish Sovereignty from the people since the power resurrected itself every time another Scottish newborn drew its first breath.

      It is the same Sovereignty that is still ours today, but we have been indoctrinated to believe falsehoods and sophistry designed to control us by a usurping Authority which could never take command or ownership of Scotland’s sovereignty with any degree of legitimacy, so it developed a workaround, an illegitimate constitution which could obviously never be finite, fixed or written down, but a fallacy which could be sold as plausible and branded into the Nation’s psyche through guile and indoctrination, and ingrained in us through corruption, intimidation, coercion and bribery.

      That’s your United Kingdom laid bare… No Union of Equals, no equitable venture of common purpose, but a malignant grand design to purloin Scotland’s Sovereignty and plunder Scotland’s resources.

      It’s long past the time when this false deed of Union should have been torn to shreds. It’s 311 years past that time, but better late than never eh?

    197. Scott says:

      Before her microphone was switched off, Sturgeon turned to her deputy John Swinney and could be heard to say: “Tom Mason? Who’s Tom Mason?”

      Having seen this I thought I might do a searce and came up with this…

      Tom Mason
      Member of the Scottish Parliament
      for North East Scotland
      Assumed office
      20 June 2017
      Preceded by Ross Thomson
      Personal details
      Born 31 December 1942 (age 75)
      Bishop’s Stortford
      Political party Conservative
      Alma mater King’s College London
      Cranfield School of Management

    198. pipinghot says:

      re drones
      Prepare for draconian laws to be rushed thru parliament to lock up or heavily fine drone users, this is a manufactured story giving an excuse to show that troops on the street are “protecting” us in prep for brexit. This smelt fishy from the off. They can spy on us but not the other way around it seems. Frightening.

    199. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Tom Busza

      I have read many posts and threads too. Whilst many posts are insightful and interesting, they are OPINIONS, not legal rulings.

      Even back in the run up to 2014 we had OPINIONS from the UK Govt presented as fact. Neither the UK Govt or Scot Govt tested them in a court of law.


      These were opinions / legal arguments that were disputed at the time. They remain unsettled. They will no doubt be raised again, if there’s an indyref. Why not settle them now?

      So, do you have the answer to this question: If Scotland votes for independence, does the UK end and it reverts to Scotland and England?

      or does it become indy Scotland and rUK with rUK the continuing UK and Scotland a “new” breakaway state? The UK Govt argue it would be Scotland and rUK. Mr Peffers would tell you the Kingdoms of Scotland and England. But who is right? I don’t know. I would like to know.

      Interesting as Mr Peffers or Breeks etc opinions are, and no disrespect to either of them, but they have NO legal authority. Would the Lord Advocate quote Mr Peffers in court as his legal authority? eg. It is so because Mr Peffers said so.

      I very much doubt it. Neither would anyone quote me. It’s not about me, or Mr Peffers etc. It’s about Scotland’s future and it’s legal status with the EU etc. Why not have legal clarity before an indyref?

      Nicola Sturgeon is a former solicitor. I would have thought she would want to know too, so Project Fear2 cannot speculate / scaremonger again about all this.

    200. Lenny Hartley says:

      Tom Buszna, re drone, ch4 news reported that it wasnt your common garden drone but bigger.
      So your casual Ned aint been flying Phantom 4’s, its somebody with the skills to fly a”Commercial “ drone , if it was somebody determined to screw up The Christmas Holidays of hundreds of thousands of folk im sure it would have been up in the air over Manchester by now. If its been flown by a squirrel then we probably wont hear of it again , its done its job.

    201. Liz g says:

      Reluctant Nationalist @ 7.35
      You’ve said some dum things in yer time…. but 2 strikes in the wan post is a new achievement.

      While yer entitled to your own opinion about “ ranking prefferd ” nationalities, which while bizarre, is indeed an opinion.
      A disgusting one but still an opinion ( previous sentence.. also an opinion)
      Yer no entitled tae yer own facts… not matter how particularly reluctant ye may be feeling.

      That Westminster refuses to devolve immigration to Holyrood, is a fact.
      To claim that a mear lack of concern expains Westminster’s stance is,I think, either foolish or a “reluctance” to understand the nature of Westminster… what say you?

      That Scotland needs people… also a fact.
      That Westminster is intending to impose further restrictions on Scotland’s ability to attract new people is no in dispute either.
      In Scotland and in lots of Countries… This , is , known, as, Depopulation….
      If you cannot see the effect of Westminster policy on Scotland, and prefer to think it Fantasy?? Then there’s none here can help ye!

    202. Kangaroo says:

      For those of you interested in Scottish History and a good read over the holiday break while your waiting for….

      Written by Hector Boece in the 1500’s, so no modern sophistry at work it starts at around the time of Alexander the Great

      Enjoy, and have a good time with family and friends in the next few weeks.


    203. Apologies if this was covered earlier just had time to skim through the posts.

      BBC Website earlier today reporting that RT, Russia Today, being attacked by Ofcom who said ” RT had failed to give due weight to a wide range of voices on a matter of major political controversy ” It called the breaches serious failures of compliance.

      There was a list of alleged stories including the Skirpal poisoning.

      Well done Ofcom who would want a broadcaster who did not give a wide range of voices on matters of major political controversy.

      The the Feckin BBC for example.

    204. Colin Alexander says:

      Scotland was conquered by Cromwell’s New Model Army and became part of the Commonwealth of England Scotland and Ireland c.1654.

      So, just 53 years before the UK Union, Scotland was NOT independent for a time. It was part of a united REPUBLIC created by English military conquest with 30 out of 460 seats in the First Protectorate English Parliament or 6.5% of seats.

      Now, in the Commons Scotland has 59 out of 650 seats or 9%.

      A lot has changed since those days but, Scotland’s place has remained the same. Subjugated by England.

    205. Tom Busza says:

      Lenny Hartley

      Agreed, but would appreciate correct spelling of name Busza not Buszna (typo accepted) but bear in mind I have spent 70 years with mispelt/mispronounced name despite spelling it out and pronouncing it several times.

    206. ronnie anderson says:

      Dear Rev Stu all i want for christmas is ah Troll free zone where i can read & enjoy the Wingers comments without the pestilence of Trolls clogging up the threads with their nonsense questioning on issues that have been explained on many occasions . Please Rev.

      Hauns up fur ah Troll free christmas .

    207. Pete Barton says:

      OK Ronnie, you got me…

      I surrender.

      Hande hoch!

      Please, trolls gies a wee bit o peace for Xmas eh?

      Go and help the elves pack the kiddie’s prezzies

    208. Lenny Hartley says:

      Tom Busza, apologies, nearly sliced top of finger off this afternoon and having difficulties typing with a bloodied bandaged finger on my ipad

    209. Tom Busza says:

      Colin Alexander @ 8.31 pm.

      Opinions on here are waht they are…opinions.
      Pointers to historic documents/treaties, etc. are fact.
      Interpretation of those historic documents/treaties, etc. are up to the legal beagles.

      But, I cannot see how, when Scotland declares independence/dissolves the treaty of union, there can be such a thing as rUK. (i.e “rest of United Kingdom”).
      If we assume that the treaty of union is a union between two separate kingdoms, with their own sovereignties, to form a United Kingdom (sureley it shoud be the United Kingdoms…but that’s getting too pedantic), then a separation of the ways by dissolution will result in Scotland and England, not rest of United Kingdom as it is not a concept any more.

      All your stuff about NS being an ex-solicitor (she still is) and other rubbishing have no bearing on the fact that it would not be beyond our ken that NS/SNP have not investigated legal and historic (treaties, acts, etc.).

      Just be aware we are not privy to the goings on in the GSG/SNP bacjk-office. and so it shopuld be…as has been said many tiimes before “why declare your hand”?

    210. Tom Busza says:

      Lenny Hartley

      Nae bother…been there meself, real bummer. Cheers..hope it gets better soon.

    211. Colin Alexander says:

      Issues “explained” is not issues legally settled.

      For newbies, in Wings “trolls” is not just used to describe someone who tries to cause upset or disrupt, it is mostly mis-used to describe anyone who does not agree with the main Wings clique of posters who see themselves as the real independence movement.

      All in Scotland are sovereign, but some are more sovereign than others in Wingsworld.

    212. Pete Barton says:

      @ Tom Busza:

      Exactly Sir.

      Glad you wrote that, I don’t possess the eloquence to put it so succinctly.

      Colin, take note..

      Since 2014, we have an understanding that hearts and minds can only take this so far; law must play it’s part, and there are many good minds working away quietly on our behalf.

      2014 was but a first step.

      Now we have nearly half of our people switched on, “By the Law by the Law” we shall foment respect among our people.

      And other communities are watching now.

    213. Tom Busza says:

      Right, going offline for a wee while to cook some dinner while I can with ingredients before they shoot up in price post-brexit, that’s if they wiull actaully be available.

      Tagliatelle all’Amatriciana

      Pasta from Italy (I know I can make my own pasta with a pasta machine using local eggs and imported durum flour.
      Pancetta (imported from Italy). OK Can substitute local bacon but it’s laden with water and other crap (or buy some artisan type bacon costing an arm and a leg)
      Chopped tomatoes (always from Italy)
      Olive Oil (Italy)
      White Wine (Italy
      So, a simple meal that can cost me about 50p.

      I hate to think what this simple meal will cost me afdtyer Brexit!

    214. Tom Busza says:

      “I hate to think what this simple meal will cost me afdtyer Brexit!”

      afdtye – obviously after

    215. Bob Mack says:

      A drone shuts Gatwick for a day, causing chaos, involving four branches of Government.

      Brexit with no deal will shut about every air route East and south but that will be fine

    216. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Liz, you loveable person, I wrote ‘lack of concern’ as an understatement. For your benefit, I think they don’t give a fuck – but attempting to discredit someone because they didn’t ‘REEEEE’ is super. As far as your unshiftable stance on ‘depopulation’ you still haven’t done anything rather than repeat the same incomplete equation. It’s your opinion expressed as fact; if it’s obvious to a thick cunt like me, god knows what others think.

      And seeing as Nicola herself clearly doesn’t want it devolved – hence the jaw-dropping direction her rhetoric took at conferences where she wanted to welcome the world no questions asked, to the evident displeasure of the electorate who reacted predictably at the snap GE – I think you’re wasting your time.

      You think my preferences are disgusting? Well, boy that means a great deal to me. I guess I’ll have to go and have a hard think about things.

    217. Legerwood says:

      What England, Wales and Northern Ireland call themselves, collectively, after Scotland becomes independent is a matter for them. We have no copywright on any name they wish to use once we are independent.

      Discussion on the issue, especially whether the name they choose and its legality, is a pointless exercise unless your point is endless distraction. The name is up to them. We will be independent and attending to our own business

    218. @Kangaroo,

      Looks like a really interesting read,

      our wonderful history is being slowly eroded by BBC backed lickspittle Brutish historians and grave robbers (archaeologists),


    219. Colin Alexander says:

      Even the question about an S30 was fudged in 2014.

      It still remains untested in a court of law.

      So, why not test that now too? Get it done and dusted when the clock is ticking. As you can be sure the UK Govt will seek to block an Indyref.

      The premise of the 2014 YES campaign was indy by mutual cooperation if a majority vote YES. A gentleman’s Edinburgh Agreement on how it would be conducted bypassed the law.

      YES was shafted. There was no legal agreement, no legal recourse for YES. The NO result was all that counted.

      The UK’s mask of fairness has slipped. We know now it will be dirty tricks, mis-information, lies, dishonesty, whatever it takes.

      If as people assert on here that Scotland is sovereign and as a result needs no S30, then establish that in court NOW, BEFORE any indyref.

      Establish how, in court, the dissolution of the Union would be achieved legally. Scots Law exists NOW. Independent Scotland would rely on Scots Law as the basis of the state.

      How would the UK assets and responsibilities be attributed or would it be a political free for all? What would Scots Law say?

      You can be certain, the UK will AGAIN use anything that is not already established fact as a reason to vote no. So, why not rob them of ammunition by establishing facts, instead of explanations on Wings based on unproven opinions.

    220. Liz g says:

      Reluctant Nationalist @
      Why are you calling me a boy?
      You really don’t see the world as others do.. do you!

      Anyhoo Yes I totally agree…
      Off ye go and have a good think, but not too hard noo…
      Otherwise yer big toe will swell and ye won’t get yer shoes on in the mornin!

    221. K1 says:

      thick cunt like me’

      Your’e not a ‘thick’ cunt dear boy merely a bog standard cunt. Stop feigning ‘thick’.

    222. Hamish100 says:

      All in Scotland are sovereign, but some are more sovereign than others in Wingsworld says Colin Alexander. A narcistic comment if ever.

    223. K1 says:

      ‘to the evident displeasure of the electorate who reacted predictably at the snap GE’

      Way to go on projection RN. What about the EU vote…does that ‘prove’ yer theory too?

      Where’s all the ‘displeasure of the electorate’ in that vote?

      Thought so.

      Ugly little cunt tae eh?

    224. Kangaroo says:

      Scot Finlayson @ 10:33pm

      I should have stated above that the book is all online so you don’t need to download or buy anything, its all there for everyone to read. A great relaxing holiday activity.

      Indeed it is interesting, and written long before the Scottish records were partly destroyed whilst being returned from confinement South of the Border. Which makes it VERY credible.

      Adding to its credibility is that DNA evidence supports the written record that indeed the people traveled from Egypt to Scythia, Portugal, Spain, Brittany and Ireland.

      Interestingly Tutenkamens DNA was R1b which means he was NOT African but a white western european.
      As they say a picture tells a thousand words. Look at the geographic distribution.

      If the above link does not work then look up Wikipedia for r1b and follow the link there.

      Then there is this

      Ain’t no mystery anymore.

    225. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 10.43
      Well spotted, I missed the EU vote…..
      And that being the most recent vote too!!
      My bad… LOL

    226. K1 says:

      Not most recent Liz, Snap ge was in ’17, EU was ’16.

      The point being the ‘displeasure of the electorate’ in terms of areswipe Tories getting elected had nothing to do with some fantasist’s theory regarding immigrants being unwelecome in Scotland.

    227. geeo says:

      Coco an avid unionist again i see, oh well, always time for pro indy coco tomorrow.


    228. Liz g says:

      K1 @ 10.58
      Ah yes yer right… Sorry am in the middle of painting and answering all the “what aboot” xmas shit. .. As a Conscripted Xmas coordinator who struggled tae care even when the kids were wee…. I’m looking in and out of wings for a bit of sanity…. And find the fucking twilight

      ANYHOO … Glad one of us is on the ball..
      But it has to be said.. I’m less bothered by the fake thick, than the faux beauty!

    229. Ken500 says:

      Tom Mason is the two job Tory keeping the unionists crooks in power in Aberdeen City Council. He Is a councillor and MSP. 3rd rate reject. He will not resign the Council because the SNP could win the seat. He must be in two places at once. That is probably why Nicola Gas never noticed him. He’s never there. The Labour lot changed the timetable of Council business to accommodate him. What a shower.

      The information on the Scottish population is on the internet. Census. Just google it. From 1900. 4,800,000. Rising to 5Million 1951. It decreased slightly Thatcher years. Then hardly changed till 2000. Devolution. It has only increased since then.

      In 1707 Scotland’s population was 25% (1/4) of the UK. Now it is a 12th (1/12).

    230. Ken500 says:

      The Tories were at the EU nonsense in 1980’s. It was EU matters that took Thatcher down. Finally after all the damaged she caused, the Tories got rid of her.

      Germany has 20% migrants.(90Million pop) Low unemployment and high wages. In surplus. A good economy. They were not allowed to keep an army after the 11WW. So did not spend the average equivalent of £40Billion a year on Defence.Instead invested in their economy. They trade in the Middle East. Cars etc. Involved in construction.

    231. call me dave says:


      No Stone tonight! Maybe still droning on at a certain airport.

    232. wull says:

      Nonsense, Colin Alexander at 9.03 pm. Cromwell never ruled in Scotland with the consent of the people. His governance was imposed by force, and was therefore NOT LEGITIMATE. His attempt to rule the Scottish people had no authentic foundation, and was totally invalid.

      Do you not understand what the sovereignty of the people means? Have you not read anything about that concept somewhere on this site, again and again? Even in today’s comments?

      Rule by forced subjugation is TYRANNY, and tyranny – government WITHOUT the CONSENT of the governed – is the antithesis of legitimate government.

      The typically Scottish doctrine (according to which rulers obtain their authority from the freely given consent of those whom they govern) is not new. And it wasn’t invented by the Americans who founded the USA, on its theoretical basis (though in a flawed way in practice), in 1776. The idea has a much longer history than that particular manifestation of it.

      As far as Scotland is concerned, it was actually defined well over seven hundred years ago. Incidentally, in Scottish terms, that specific conception of governmental authority, whereby it rests very specifically on the consent of the people – popular consent, for short – predates the Arbroath Declaration. That document of 1320 is only one – and not by any means the first – expression of it in Scottish sources.

      So, Colin, not just as a Scot but simply as a human being, don’t you think it’s about time you caught up with the most eminently sensible doctrine about the nature (and origins) of political authority? Which has nothing to do with Oliver Cromwell, who – like so many before and after him – ignored it, and tried to eradicate (i.e. uproot) it from the good Scottish soil in which it was planted. Without success, of course.

      Isn’t it about time you caught up with that doctrine and traditional Scottish practice of popular consent as the foundation of all governmental legitimacy? I know that England never has caught up with it, but that does not excuse any of the rest of us.

      Unfortunately, the actions of England’s political class, and even the manner in which her governmental institutions work, continually and incessantly demonstrate that there is no authentic notion of popular consent there at all. Lip-service may be paid to it when it suits those who hold power to appeal to it, but it is overridden with ease and at will whenever it does not suit. May is a case in point. She claims she is only implementing the democratic will of the people, all the while making sure that the very same people will never get a further chance to indicate what their will now is, just in case their will differs from hers.

      No matter what they say, the actions of Westminster refute popular consent all the time. But someone with a proud Scottish name like ‘Colin Alexander’ ought surely to know better than that.

      It might be understandable to be a bit behind the times – but ignoring a whole 700 and more years of Scottish history is taking it a bit far, don’t you think? Any genuine Scotsman – though he might not know any of the details of his country’s history – knows the doctrine of popular consent in the sense that he at least has a feel for it. And any new Scot can easily identify with it – it’s so common sensical, such a self-evident truth. Resist tyranny, choose freedom. Be subjugated to no one, and don’t let bullies crush or dominate you.

      Don’t you feel it nestling somewhere or other, however vaguely, in your bones, Colin? And – to paraphrase Walter Bower – if the answer is that you don’t, can you really call yourself in any way a Scot?

      I repeat, Oliver Cromwell (just like Edward I) claimed what was not his. Like bullies, thieves and cheats almost everywhere always do. Cromwell was never the legitimate ruler of Scotland for the simple reason that the Scots – the Scottish populace as a whole – never freely consented to his rule. They never conferred any authority upon him. Consequently, he simply had no legitimate authority to wield. No matter how much he tried to force himself on the people, his rule was null and void. For it is from the people’s free consent, and not from any other source, that such authority – legitimate political authority, the authority to govern – is derived.

      And consent has to be freely given. Otherwise it is not consent. To put it frankly, a rapist is not a legitimate ruler over the person or persons he rapes. He may momentarily seem to rule them, but he does so only by force and fear. And that is tyranny, not legitimate rule. You get put away for that sort of thing, and rightly so.

      The doctrine you are appealing to, Colin – that legitimate rule occurs through conquest and is imposed by force (enforced subjugation), as Cromwell tried to do – is, I am sorry to say, a typically English view of the world, and of political reality. English history is littered with it, both internally within England and externally in all its imperial pretensions and extensions.

      You only have to look around you to see it at work. What we are witnessing at this very moment, and what here in Scotland we are actually suffering from, is a revival of that insidious, nefarious and totally invalid English doctrine. The false assumption that Oliver cromwell, and so many like him, took for granted. Namely, that England has the right to impose itself on other nations, subjecting and subjugating them to its will. And it may then treat them as it wishes (just think of what Westminster so recently did to the Scottish Continuity Bill). It may even lie, cheat and deceive in order to impose itself. Just think of the Vow, and everything that has happened since then – in 4 short years – and is still happening right now, before our very noses.

      That doctrine, that assumption of English rule over other nations is self-evidently at work in the here and now. And even, increasingly, in tooth and claw. Just look at the way Unionist politicians at Westminster (and elsewhere) and their media actually treat Scotland and, unbelievably to most of us, feel themselves entitled to do so. Even within the Union, respect for the terms of which they have none.

      That much has become blatantly obvious ever since Scottish independence became a live issue again. And it has grown exponentially ever since the whole Brexit fiasco burst upon us.

      English entitlement to dominate other peoples may even be what Brexit is all about.

      ‘Freedom is a noble thing’, Colin, as Barbour said. And, as he also said, tyranny has to be resisted wherever and from whomsoever it raises its ugly head. Forced subjugation sets out to enslave whole peoples, colonising not just their countries but their minds. Contrary to what you suggest in your flippant appeal to Cromwell, such subjugation does not and never did – indeed cannot – give rise to legitimate government. Neither does force, nor did it ever. Any appeal to such things – to such ‘values’, if you dare to call brute force and fear by such a name – in order to claim a right to rule is a denial of rationality and an insult to the intelligence.

      The ‘Cromwellian’ approach to political authority, to which you so blandly and urbanely appeal, can usher in only one thing, especially in today’s world. Namely, the jackboot, in all its forms. That jackboot which storms in and stamps down. With all sorts of new and hugely sophisticated and worse-than-ever forms of Fascism and Totalitarianism.

      Cromwell subjugated … Edward I subjugated … Butcher Cumberland subjugated … Where are you coming from, with that nonsense? For they never did. They tried to, but they never succeeded. And what are you suggesting? Where are you going to, with that nonsense? What’s the next step? … Is it … ‘May subjugated’ … ? She, or her cohorts, might indeed be trying. Or even presuming. But they won’t succeed.

      At the same time, we should be very very careful. As Scots, we should by now know about it. we have long experience of how these things keep coming back, and the present moment is no exception. In different ways at different times, but always fundamentally the same old, old, wearisome thing.

      Let’s not be naive about it. That jackboot, these forms of Fascism and Totalitarianism and Imperialism, that feeling of entitlement and right to rule by force and not consent, that Oliver Cromwell or Edward I or whoever happens to be the new name for it, is ever present and ever near. And there he/she is again, right there on our door-step, crouched and ready to pounce, like a thief in the night, or a wolf hungry for its prey. We have to be ready for the combat, and not allow ourselves to be taken by surprise.

      Let’s hope we can end the UK Union in such a way that it will bring our southern neighbours back to our senses. Nicola Sturgeon seems to be doing everything she can to achieve that, partly because it will be in our own best interests. But also because ‘freedom is a noble thing’ for them too – the English populace – just as it is for us.

      She also does so, because the ‘Scottish doctrine of political authority’, namely that such authority is derived from the consent of the people, isn’t simply a Scottish peculiarity. It just so happens that it is universally true, and applies to all peoples, not just the Scots. And if, in terms of its articulation, it first reached full and clear expression in the political life Scotland, in the course of Scottish history, it hasn’t stopped there. The whole wide world now accepts it, at least theoretically, as the norm.

      Hopefully, a new and liberated England will soon be accepting it too, not with mere lip-service but in all its fullness. A revived England returned to herself and delivered from her imperial fantasies of the past. An England freed from the now defunct UK, and no longer burdened with its previous misinformed and deliberate misinterpretations of the nature of what that now departed and unlamented entity actually was. An England at last able to implement – fully and meaningfully – both within herself, and in her relations with the other countries round about her, an authentic notion of government by consent of the governed. An England that will prove, at long last, to be a decent neighbour to Scotland.

    233. Cubby says:


      Sad little Britnat aren’t you. What’s worse than a boring thick Britnat – a bloody pathetic sneaky Britnat playing the victim card.

      What no SNP baaaaad in this post. Used up your quota for the day.

    234. Elizabeth Stanley says:

      Just musing. When Scotland regains her independence I would like to see a law passed that the word deal can only be used once weekly & the phrase I have been clear is only used yearly by any politician.

    235. mike cassidy says:


      Not sure who is going to win this year’s Wings Political Dumbass Award.

      But I would be impressed if he or she surpassed this individual.

      Well done, sir!

    236. jfngw says:

      What’s actually been going on that they haven’t wanted any planes taking off from Gatwick today? I can’t believe that they are so useless they can’t stop a few drones, and it take so long to trace the RF signal source, even if it is moving around a bit.

      I’ve been with someone in the eighties with a directional aerial, a signal strength meter and moving a couple of times, he was able to locate the location of the house transmitting within a hour (CB Radio).

      It’s all a bit fishy to me.

    237. Liz g says:

      Elizabeth Stanley @ 11.42
      Oh so true… I reckon we should put that in the Scottish Constution..

    238. Daisy Walker says:

      O/T (but only a little) WHY!!!! AND WHO!!!!

      I cannot find, anywhere, except here – yesterday’s article, any kind of recognition, never mind explanation, or heaven forbid some kind of analysis, about what the hell happened to yesterday’s VONC.

      This includes twitter accounts:, Ian Dunt, Kirsty Hughes, Robert Peston, Laura what’s her face, Craig Murray….

      I get it that they ‘won’ on the day, but now no nothing, no type of analysis, zilch.

      This is beyond bias and into the realms, of, ‘if you print this I’ll hurt your family..’

      Have the Government issued D Noticies? If so folks just to confirm, can your next stories, for the next month be, almost exclusively (and only for the purposes of changing the subject) about your favourite pets.

      Love, peace, safety to all.

      Just so we know. Now we really must, and we are going to have to help our friends down south.

    239. Daisy Walker says:

      Elizabeth Stanley says:
      20 December, 2018 at 11:42 pm
      Just musing. When Scotland regains her independence I would like to see a law passed that the word deal can only be used once weekly & the phrase I have been clear is only used yearly by any politician.

      Please, please… make it so. Thank you Santa.

    240. Robert Peffers says:

      @ reeks says: 20 December, 2018 at 7:56 pm:

      ” … But then along came Scotland, blighted by a powerful aggressor to the South and an alarming propensity amongst Scottish nobility to be seduced by gold, power, and lands in the South, which drew up the Declaration of Arbroath which would enshrine Sovereignty upon the people, putting it beyond the reach of any conquering aggressor, but equally beyond the reach of a duplicitous Scottish nobility.”

      Not quite, Breeks. What was behind the Declaration of Arbroath was not as you think. It quite simply was to get Robert Bruce off the hook baited by the English monarch and dangled by the Holy Roman See.

      The English monarch, Edward I, was internationally acknowledged to be one of the foremost authorities on constitutional matters. Which was why the Scots asked him to help sort out Scotland’s problems with the Kingdom of Scotland’s succession.

      Edward I chose John Balliol as the new King of Scotland. This was actually done by a group of selected noblemen headed by King Edward I of England.

      However, Edward used his influence over the process to subjugate Scotland and he used Balliol’s personal reign to treat Scotland as a vassal of England.

      Later, when the throne was again under dispute the two main candidates were the Red Comyn and Robert Bruce. After Bruce was alleged to have murdered the Comyn on the alter steps of Dumfries High Kirk, The English Monarch encouraged the Pope to excommunicate Bruce and, as the norm in all Christendom was, “The Divine Right of Kings”, and monarchs, being sovereign, owned everything and everyone was their subjects that meant everyone in Scotland was excommunicated as the excommunication was treated as the prevailing laws of Christendom.

      This was very serious for the rest of Christendom could not then trade with Scotland or with Scots. The Kingdom of Scotland was thus in dire trouble.

      Now factually Bruce and the Red Comyn had been alone together in Dumfries High Kirk so no one, except Bruce, knew who attacked whom.

      When Bruce stepped from the kirk and told his men he thought he had killed The Comyn, Roger de Kirkpatrick said “You doubt. Ise mak siccar”. This translates into English as, “You’re unsure? I’ll make certain”.

      Now consider that statement – did it mean that Kirkpatrick went into the kirk to simply check if the Comyn was alive or dead or did it mean that Kirkpatrick made sure that the Comyn was dead by dispatching the wounded Conyn?

      In any event as the two contenders for the throne were alone together, and only Bruce survived, then only Bruce knew if it was murder or self defence.

      Thus the idea behind the Declaration Of Arbroath was to at least get Scotland and the people of Scotland off the hook.

      In the event, the Papacy and the English Monarchy had rather fallen out over the English monarchy appointing themselves as heads of the Christian Church in the Kingdom of England and thus the Pope went along with The Declaration of Arbroath, which, of course, freed Scotland from English rule.

      Remember that at that time only those who owned land had the franchise. This, of course, was part of the concept of Divine Right and royal sovereignty. The Monarch owned the land and granted lands to the next down layer of the aristocracy – in turn that layer of the aristocracy hived off parts of the land they got from their landlords and so on from the monarchy down to the simple Lord of the Manor.

      The prime thing that land paid for was the military support of the next layer down and that, in a nutshell is the Feudal System. (We were still paying feu duty until just a, (Cough!), few years ago)).

      Then, as the franchise expanded to what had been the Serfs and Villeins Scots law accepted that even the common people were sovereign but in Bruce’s time it was only the Landed people who were legally sovereign over the Monarch.

      In practice, of course, Bruce ruled almost as if he were still a sovereign ruler but did indeed have legal restraint imposed upon him as does the current Queen of Scots.

    241. Rock says:

      “refusing to support a motion tabled by four other opposition parties last night”

      Rock (18th December – “Coming through the field”):

      “56 out of 59 SNP MPs with 50% of the vote was highly undemocratic.

      And even then, they achieved ZERO for Scotland at Westminster.

      Nicholas Soames is right – if the SNP MPs had a sense of self respect, they would have come back when the Scotland Act miserably failed to deliver “The Vow” and the 56 SNP MPs were completely ignored and humiliated.”

    242. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 12.39
      Well ….
      Get the People of Scotland ” off ” the religious hook…
      Or right back on it…
      I guess we’ll never really know!

      How are ye keepin Robert?

    243. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      K1 “ugly little cunt”

      Talking about projection…

      Anyway, merry Christmas.

    244. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 20 December, 2018 at 8:31 pm:

      ” … I have read many posts and threads too. Whilst many posts are insightful and interesting, they are OPINIONS, not legal rulings. “

      Utter pish, Colin.

      The Treaty of Union has only two signatory kingdoms and in order to sign such a treaty each signatory Kingdom partner must be equally sovereign or it wouldn’t be a legal treaty.

      In 1707 Wales had been a part of the Kingdom of England since the Statute of Rhuddlan, (Which was not a treaty but a statute issued by the English Monarchy.

      In 1707 the Kingdom of Ireland parliament, ruled by the Monarch of England who was appointed as, “Lord Of Ireland”, by the Holy Roman See, passed The Crown of Ireland Act that placed the Irish Crown on the Monarch of England’s head.

      Thus the Kingdom of England in 1707 was composed of three countries. It was not a United Kingdom it was the Kingdom of England – which is why neither Wales or Ireland signed the Treaty of Union.

      Thus the Treaty of Union is a bipartite international treaty and there was and are only two kingdoms as its partner kingdoms.

      There cannot be a united Kingdom with only the three country kingdom of England in it.

      When the people of Scotland tell the World that the International Treaty of Union is over then it is over and there is nothing that Westminster can legally do about it.

      And, BTW, the partition of Ireland will almost certainly be found to have been an illegal act on the part of Westminster and Scotland ending the Union would call how that came about into question as it was a Westminster engineered matter and actually not a Treaty of Union as Westminster claims it to be.

    245. Daisy

      re the VONC

      so far as I know, Corbyn’s vote of No confidence in T May was dismissed by the PM and WM as ‘silly games’.
      She taunted him to change it into a VONC in the Government. Meanwhile the SNP and other parties lodged an amendment to the tabled motion trying to make it a VONC in the Government, but that could only be debated if Corbyn lodged it.
      OR , since it was not being proposed by the Opposition, if the Government allowed the debate to take place and I think the decision was that the Government had no time available to slot such a debate in before the recess – which I think was state of play on Wednesday evening.

      Nicola at FMQ’s today has urged Corbyn to reflect on things over the Christmas period and come back in the New Year with a VONC in the Tory Government- so it may yet happen!

    246. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      21 December, 2018 at 1:05 am

      “When the people of Scotland tell the World that the International Treaty of Union is over then it is over and there is nothing that Westminster can legally do about it.”

      Any idea when that is likely to happen?

      I am sure it will happen in 2640 AD, if not later.

    247. jfngw

      Maybe the ‘no planes’ at Gatwick is a dry run rehearsal for a ‘No Deal’ scenario.

      Surely we have sophisticated equipment to lock onto a drone and destroy it. The USA has the technology to send robot attack drones into specific targets to carry out their ‘dastardly deeds’.

      It all sounds a bit too helpless and amateur for me – a bit like the carelessness of those carrying out the Skripal case.
      Now they’re suggesting it might be eco-warriors carrying out such selfish behaviour.

      Quite extraordinary and must be horrendous for those caught up in the whole affair.
      Strange there was no Cobra committee meeting

    248. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      21 December, 2018 at 1:30 am

      “Nicola at FMQ’s today has urged Corbyn to reflect on things over the Christmas period and come back in the New Year with a VONC in the Tory Government- so it may yet happen!”

      That is so sweet of Nicola.

      Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

      “Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

      The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

      But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

      The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

      It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

      Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

      Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

      If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.”

    249. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees says:
      21 December, 2018 at 1:37 am

      “It all sounds a bit too helpless and amateur for me – a bit like the carelessness of those carrying out the Skripal case.”

      The drones will no doubt be blamed on the Russians and Putin personally. As saviour of the United Kingdom, Nicola will be dutybound to stand shoulder to shoulder with Saint Theresa.

      Rock (8th December – “The Stoned Roses”):

      “It was the ultimate in stupidity and gutlessness for Nicola to stand “shoulder to shoulder” with “Tory scum” Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

      She had no reason to open her mouth – she should have dismissed it as a reserved matter. That would have shut up the unionists. Instead she is now hostage to what she said.

      Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

    250. Dr Jim says:

      Gatwick problem solved, they’re bringing down Trident to deter them

    251. Calum McKay says:

      It’s plain to all but an idiot that Corbyn is as mush a brexiteer as Bill Cash or Nigel Farage!

      To all labour readers, ever feel you’ve lied to by your leadership?

      Further to that, has anyone in labour the spine to point out to everyone what Corbym is?

    252. Cactus says:

      4 calling drone days.remaining to go…

    253. William Wallace says:

      Just checking in to wish all the wingers crew festive greetings and to wish you and your families all the very best for 2019.

      See you all on the front line.

      Peace, love, unity and respect.

    254. Cactus says:

      Tough Love for the stranded festive travellers eh, interestingly excellent comments… hmm could this identified flying object be another social exercise / experiment?

      Or maybe it was these guys:

      Ah prefers the Lovely bagpipes drones.

      How embarrassing for Labour.

    255. Cactus says:

      Still, by this time next year, we will look back at NOW and where we ARE and surely we will all be smiling 🙂

      Scotland has her own country to iManage.

      Come the first of January morn…

    256. Liz g says:

      William Wallace @ 2.20
      The same to you and yours my friend…
      Stay well…. your going to be needed xxx

      Hey Cactus x

    257. Liz g says:

      Dr Jim @ 1.53
      I don’t think they will take Trident to London Dr Jim!
      They are too feart we will no let it back in…
      Me and Nana will certainly man the borders.
      And Smallaxe has his ways!!

    258. Cactus

      Lovely image conjured up of a set of bagpipes flying around Gatwick runway! Love it!

    259. Liz g says:

      Cactus @ 2.30
      Aye they are very keen tae say drone…
      Bit whit if it’s really the mothership looking fur the Tories before they do any more damage ???

    260. William Wallace says:

      Thank you Liz. Best wishes to you and your kin and all the best for 2019. I’ll be there causing mischief next year and you have my word on that.

      Desert dwelling mutant didnae even say hi. That the way of it aye? 😉

      2 pint’s ya prick. 🙂

    261. Cactus says:

      Is not it smashin’ that previous no voters have another chance for themselves:

      Although not spoken of much, there is also another rare kind of mystical voter out there that WILL prove key to WIN in Indy19… that’s your local friendly next door previous NON-voter. If the previous NON-voters can be encouraged to come out to PLAY THIS time, they should carry it thru and over the MoE. And why would not they get up and say Yes THIS TIME… they would have no motivation towards no, but should be stimulated enough to vote Yes 2 save at least their own Scottish buts.

    262. William Wallace says:

      Hint taken Cactus ya diddy. All the best anyway.

    263. Cactus says:

      Hey Meg and Liz xx aweright Wallace how ye doin’ ya dick, ah was jus playin haurd tae get bro.

      Make it three he he 🙂

    264. William Wallace says:

      You couldnae finish twa ya fanny. Much love ya desert dwelling dehydrated 20 – 17 fucka 😉

      2/5 next time and you will win. 😉

    265. Cactus says:

      An awe ra best tae yee’s Wingers one an all, an aye aint planning on no seasonal downtime here, ahm ah PLAYING thru till ’19 and beyond!

      Happy Holidays my aye oh my.

    266. Cactus says:

      Ah raise to ye William Wallace. 🙂

      Let’s visit the top table dude.

      NB is not it quite illuminating some of the varietyfull choice of suggestive language being brazenly used on here… one is quite taken aback, in fact one is perturbed, quite.

    267. William Wallace says:

      LOL Cactus

      How very dare you. You are turning people away from independence so ye are.


    268. Cactus says:

      Mah bad, you’re good.

    269. William Wallace says:

      I’m sure it’s the other way around my desert dwelling vegas high rollin friend. I am the bad guy here. You are one of the good guys.

    270. Cactus says:

      Aye hereby rename Theresa the Tory as…

      ‘Misty May’

      How does that gin taste PM eh… sweet!

      This is the Misty May lighthouse calling.
      Stay away frae the mist and especially the fog:

      Look at those Isles…

    271. Cactus says:

      Wur awe aweright Wallace, the others will apprendre soon.

      Ye GAME furra Feb’19 night oot?

    272. William Wallace says:

      Aye Cactus.


      Mah birthday 😉

    273. Cactus says:

      Bonus, we might even be planning for our indyref2 by then…

      That’d be a crackin’ pressie fur ye, us and all.

      Multiple celebrations 2019!

    274. William Wallace says:

      If we are not independent by the next wings meet Cactus – We will be on the streets resisting like propa Souljahs. Fire pon Babylon style.

    275. Cactus says:

      Quite SO, although there WILL be a key and defining moment coming soon when everything quickens then crystallizes. The Yes number WILL grow even further before the nasty stuff gets a chance to form.

      When that new wind blaws across Scotland, we’ll know.

      It’s gonnae be bonnie, William.

    276. William Wallace says:

      Aye it will be – because we will make it so.

      And if we don’t – our children will.

    277. Undeadshuan says:

      Strange reports that gatwick runway now open, but no mention of why or of drone or operator being caught.

      Something doesnt add up.

    278. Tam says:

      Gatwick has re opened, yet Sky and BBC still think this should be their headline story.


      Don’t worry,,,Russia Bad will be along shortly ladies and gentlemen.

    279. Naina Tal says:

      Few years back I was stranded at Gatwick for half a day because of “a broken down aircraft on the runway” On getting on the plane the pilot announced to passengers that our plane had suffered “a generator failure” and they’d had to send for a new one.
      Next day in the news “Gatwick was closed down due to a threatened terrorist attack”
      So I know they lie to passengers to avoid panic. Are they maybe just getting a bit too inventive? Were there any drones?

    280. orri says:

      Last threads news I know but,

      It might be worth reminding ourselves of the circumstances that led to the 1979 Vote of no Confidence.

      Namely the Winter of Discontent.

      Or perhaps it’s Labour that need reminding.

      Or perhaps they do remember and think they can control things this time.

      Or perhaps the Conservatives might want to remember that protectionism is a two edged sword and they might just be setting the scene for a return to the heady days of unions being able to destroy the economy.

      In other countries there’s less of a class war attitude to labour relations.

      Next time some Labour dickhead claims the SNP brought in Thatcher remind them that the unions had a far larger part to play.

    281. Dorothy Devine says:

      Elizabeth Stanley , may I add ‘lessons will be learned’ to your we list? For the life of me I cannot understand why ‘our betters’ cannot try a wee bit of foresight – but then carelessness doesn’t quite cover their deranged thinking.

      Morning Cactus and to all Wingers and Winger Lurkers , may Christmas be a specially good time for you and yours.

      I await Nana and her insightful links.

    282. Nana says:


      Let’s take a look at the end year #Brexit stalemate in the House of Commons, and interviews with key players across the parties on their plans to break the impasse in 2019. Alex suggests a solution…

    283. Nana says:

      Putin tells May to ‘fulfil will of people’ on Brexit

      The UK parliament is in denial, this damaging Brexit was procured illegally. Professor Patman:”It’s incumbent on liberal democracies to express concerns about the outcome of a referendum that was fundamentally flawed in legal terms.”
      Watch the whole of this interview with New Zealand academic, Professor Robert Patman, discussing the issues and realities surrounding Brexit

    284. cearc says:


      Quick wait, eh?

      Thanks, nana.

    285. Nana says:

      Morning Dorothy 🙂

      Morning cearc, hope you are recovering well.

      Thread destroying a myth.

      Disabled pensioners set to have free TV licences taken away by Tory policy

      There’s a national emergency all right – but it isn’t Brexit

      The new era of US-China decoupling

    286. Bobp says:

      Undeadshaun 6.39am. I’m begining to wonder if the ‘drone’ story was made up to avoid paying passengers compensation for missed flights.All those thousands of people around gatwick and its perimeters with mobile phones, but nobody caught any footage of it, Aye right.

    287. Ken500 says:

      Rail services need investment in Scotland. Scotland has to pay for HS2. The biggest waste of public money withno business case. Rail journeys in Scoland take nearly twice as long as comparable journeys in the south because of historical lack of investment. Crossrail now £Billions over budget. If train journeys throughout Britain were quicker there would be less needs for flights, Gatwick, Heathrow chaos. All the eggs in on basket. A scramble.

      It is just disgrace people are being chucked out of Scotland because of Tory chaos. Wickedness. Scotland is half empty. The Tory/unionists are criminal. Obviously Scotland should have different migration policies.

      Westminster unionists caused the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Now tanking the world economy. Ruining the Scottish economy. Brexit chaos. More red tape and expense for business. It will cost more for less rights.

      Homeless death up 25% in England. In five years.

      A drone brings down an airport. There are measures to stop pigeons.

    288. Ken500 says:

      Trump withdraws troops from the Middle East. That’s what the US electorate wanted. Reports military spending in the US have increased to $750Billion. The highest pro rata in the world. Followed by Saudi Arabia spending. They cannot afford it The most absolute, despot monarchy. The apartheid State being supported, funded by the US.

    289. David P says:

      Quick question…

      Anent the Mary, Queen of Scots programme broadcast earlier this week. All historical messaging/spin suggests that forcing the queen out of the country was a disgraceful way for the nobles to behave…

      But isn’t that EXACTLY what the Declaration of Arbroath says the nobles have the right to do? In fact, does the word ‘should’ imply that the nobles must do it, ie an obligation, not a choice?

      Clarification on this point most welcome. Even now, children in Scottish scbools are not being taught this fundamental point underpinning our country’s constitution!

    290. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Robert Peffers

      You can argue till you’re blue in the face that if Scotland votes indy the Union reverts to the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.You may well be right; I’m not saying you’re wrong.

      But, until a court of law or the parties involved agree that to be the case, your argument carries no legal authority.

      UK Govt argues it would be indy Scotland and rUK.

      From 2014 Scotland’s Future. The Scot Govt said:

      “The content of any legal advice is confidential”.

      Both the UK Govt AND Scot Govt followed this same convention.

      Is that informing the public to allow them informed choices?

      No. It’s hiding details from the voting public, so they are voting for a pig in a poke.

      It’s not an anti-Scot Govt comment. The UK Govt did the same thing.

      These matters should be open and transparent, so the public is fully informed. And it should not just be advice received; these matters should be settled in court before the vote, so people know what they’ll get by voting YES or NO.

    291. Lenny Hartley says:

      Re the alledged Drone at Gatwick, I ts a strange one, on Channel four news the said its not a consumer drone, therefore quite an expensive thing, if somebody was wanting to disrupt aircraft movements why would they not just fly cheapo’s on a pre programmed flight path and get out of dodge before it came back to them so they could not be caught. Why are they not at Manchester doing a similar ploy?
      Something is not right!

    292. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 21 December, 2018 at 12:51 am:

      ” … How are ye keepin Robert?”

      Thanks for caring, Liz g.

      The SHNS seem to have, at long last, hit upon something that is actually doing the job. Whatever this thing is it has been resistant to all treatments – until now.

      No matter what they tried, as soon as the course of medications stopped, I was back on square one. This time the effects are outlasting the end of the course of antibiotics.

      So every day now I feel a tiny bit better and the trend is a slow but definite improvement. Seems I may get to vote to free Scotland after all.

      I really did think my time to go had come, and to tell the truth, I felt so bad that I would have been glad to go.

    293. Dorothy Devine says:

      Cactus , no half! At least it happened while I did a bit of shopping because my day is now full of Nana Links!

      I may have to blame her for the house not being Christmas ready for the invasion!( only kidding Nana , I would never do such a shady thing)

    294. Tinto Chiel says:

      Morning, Nana. Quite a selection there. I particularly enjoyed the young Portuguese lad’s account of coming here. He has picked up some interesting scotticisms, hem, hem.

      A friend drew my attention to this yesterday. It’s a long but excellent read. Apologies if you or anyone else has linked to it already:

    295. Tinto Chiel says:

      From the same source: Nigel Farage doesn’t want you to read this:

    296. jfngw says:

      At last footage of drone operators mocking attempts to track them.

    297. yesindyref2 says:

      @olin Alexander
      Jaesus, you can’t even get the language right in your garbage. It’s “cUK” not “rUK” the UK Gov was arguing for, it DID publish its legal advice on that – as in Annex A with Crawford & Boyle – a move which commentators said was very foolish for obvious reasons. The rest of your post(s) on this are meaningless.

    298. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.59
      Aw ye have hid a time o’ it Robert.
      But I’m glad things are looking up,and I’m sure you will see an Independent Scotland,cause as ma Mither always says…
      Yiv a lot mair damage tae dae yit!!!
      Take care of you my friend X

    299. Nana says:

      @Robert P
      Sorry to hear you’ve been unwell.

      @Dorothy, you should see my ironing pile! I’m just sad ‘Tinto & Smallaxe Men for hire’ went out of business as I could have ‘droned’ it down for them to do 🙂

      Morning Tinto
      linked yesterday morning at 7.44am but your link is worth posting

      On Thursday, December 13 Sir Ivan Rogers delivered a hard-hitting speech to the University of Liverpool’s Heseltine Institute for Public Policy, Practice and Place.

      Not seen Fred commenting for a while and I miss Heedtracker. Where are you both?

    300. Dr Jim says:

      Here’s a wee lesson:

      I am in dispute with the landlord of my housing complex I won’t tell you yet what they’ve done but it was without prior consultation or agreement from all residents of the complex so me being the only bolshi one in the place takes it up with my MSP who has now exhausted all efforts to get the landlord to accept responsibility because the Landlord has determined to *misunderstand* the problem at every turn

      So now I must go to the ombudsman for arbitration on the matter, but here’s the point of my wee story, in my tenancy agreement which as we know always favours Landlords there’s a clause about consultation which reads, and I quote

      “We would not normally” change the terms and conditions
      Yes you read it right “We would not normally”

      Apparently that phrase inserted anywhere in any agreement gives the right to anybody to do anything they like anytime they like without prior consultation or notice just like another famous document we’ve all heard of

    301. Nana says:

      Your comment is awaiting moderation message for my comment posted at 10.26am. As far as I can see there are no banned words.

      Replying to Dorothy and Tinto. Anyone able to see it? If not it may appear sometime.

    302. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana thur U ur back to the same auld same auld working yer fingers tae the bone , kin U no take it easy wummin ah’m like DorothyD spending half the day reading Ur links ( but there’s a blessing UM no putting up christmas decorations lol ).

      Mind gies ah bell when Ur in Weedgie land .

      Mr Peffers take care of yourself , all hauns to the keyboards efter the new year .

      cearc I’ll gie you ah bell tonight .

      Take care Wingers & WingsLurkers

    303. Iain mhor says:

      Thanka for the links @Nana – the ’70’s EEC mythbuster is a cracker. Had that conversation recently – all the various interpretations of what people thought they thought they were told.

      In a similar vein a ‘debate’ I had with an older apoplectic Brexiteer was basically ‘Where did this new found passion for binning the EU come from? I’ve never seen a car sticker, badge, t-shirt, you’ve never campaigned, argued, said a word – not a cheep in decades. You didn’t even a mention Europe during all the 2014 Indy campaign, Is this really your idea or are have you been reading the Daily Mail again?
      Nonplussed silence before bluster about never wanting to join EEC in the first place. Found the lever!

      It’s odd how quickly people can become evangelical about an issue that has barely, if ever, been on their radar all their days. I dare say elements of the Indy supporters may be prone to similar epiphanies and passion.
      All quite religious terminologies I’ve used I note. “Dang, that boy done got his’sel some of that ol’ time religion”

      No wonder all movements are branded “Cultist” at their inception. Independence supporters are no stranger to that epithet either. Oh well, ‘man is a political animal’ as Aristotle was wont to have it, driven to a social ‘polis’ conformity and harmony. Yet he also speaks of the “nomothetês” the ‘Lawgiver’ – the “one” or ideal to dictate the law – the movement of the ‘polis’ – I suppose the lawgiver today is the memetic output of whichever media one consumes which shapes the thought and ‘politics’ of the ‘polis’
      Anyway, I digress and treading in @Cameron.B.Brodie’s domain now.

    304. Nana says:

      Morning Ronnie. Ach you know me Ronnie anything to help with NOT doing housework and as for putting up decorations that’s what you men are for. I don’t mind holding the ladder though 🙂

      Morning Iain mhor, you are welcome. That particular link sure made me feel old, seeing some of those faces which I’d prefer to forget.

    305. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 21 December, 2018 at 9:37 am:

      ” … You can argue till you’re blue in the face that if Scotland votes indy the Union reverts to the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England.You may well be right; I’m not saying you’re wrong.”

      From here it very much looks like you are saying I’m wrong, Colin.

      However, the fact is that in the final analysis, when any group of people decide that they are sovereign, even if they do not even realise they are sovereign, they do indeed become sovereign both by law and by fact.

      Ask the French after the French revolution. Ask the Russians after the Russian Revolution and ask the former vassal states of the USSR who are now sovereign peoples.

      Ask also the people of the Republic of Ireland or those in the United States of America after the American war of Independence or even the Koreans both North & South.

      The World is full of people who took back their sovereignty from kings, emperors, dictators and even military juntas.

      Laws are made by those who took sovereignty upon themselves and when the people they ruled over have taken enough they change both their former sovereign authority and take the law back into their own hands – that is until whatever they replaced them with no longer meets their ideals and the process of the people becoming once again sovereign begins again.

      Laws, and courts of law, are the tools of those who make themselves sovereign and when the people decide they are ultimately sovereign – then the people become again sovereign.

      It is a basic law of nature that, in the end, the people say who is sovereign – thus it is, “The People”, who make the laws and, if they do not like them, it is the people who will change them and the people who will change who makes the next set of laws.

      ” … until a court of law or the parties involved agree that to be the case, your argument carries no legal authority.”

      There is no legal authority if the people previously under that legal authority refuse to recognise it as the legal authority.

      In Scotland’s case we are subject to two unreconcilable sovereign legal systems. At the moment these two legal systems are in opposition and the people of Scotland, who are by the laws of nature sovereign, are split almost 50% vs 50%.

      Scots law and English law are not compatible with each other but the people of Scotland are ultimately sovereign both legally under both Scottish and English law. Thing is that there is no such thing as United Kingdom law. No such Rule of Law actually exists.

      However, natural law states that the people are ultimately sovereign and, when push comes to shove, the people are sovereign. When the people of Scotland say they are no longer under Westminster rule there is no other legal system in operation than what the people of Scotland are ready to acknowledge.

      I’ll state that in a different manner for you:-

      Laws and legal systems are made by those who claim sovereignty over the people but the people remain naturally sovereign. When the people refuse to accept the laws imposed upon them those laws are no longer valid.

      It really is that simple. When the people of Scotland decide that Scots law overrules English/Westminster law then English/Westminster law will no longer be legally valid in Scotland.

      BTW, Scottish, Westminster and International law courts, have conceded that point in very recent court cases in Scottish, Westminster and World courts. Each have ruled that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign or at very least have failed to rule otherwise when asked to decide otherwise.

      These judgements are all on record but have not, as yet, filtered through to the mainstream medias. The Scottish supreme court has so ruled. The Westminster Supreme Court has so ruled and the ECJ is due to rule but has indicated they do so rule.

    306. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana Me n ladders ur ah no go ( shake rattle n faw ) ah dont want to join LolliesMum wie ah broken leg .

      All our yesterdays in that link ! who Malcolm Mugerage LoL.

    307. Proud Cybernat says:

      Apparently the British security services have now deployed ‘security systems’ around Gatwick.

      This drones story sounds to me to be a complete smokescreen to effectively shut down Gatwick in order to facilitate the deployment of whatever it is the security services wanted to put in place. Something’s going on behind the scenes and given that they’re not being straight with folks would seem to indicate that some threat (probably terrorist) has been made and they’re being pro-active about it. Obviously can’t tell folks what’s really going on as that could cause panic.

      Just sayin’.

    308. Nana says:

      Haha Ronnie, you’re far too young to remember him 🙂

    309. Proud Cybernat says:

      “It really is that simple. When the people of Scotland decide that Scots law overrules English/Westminster law then English/Westminster law will no longer be legally valid in Scotland.”

      But Scots need to ASSERT their sovereignty. We need to expressly tell WM that they no longer speak or act for Scotland because we will now speak and act for ourselves. The very act of telling WM that is the moment we ASSERT our sovereignty. Until we decide to do that WM can do with us what they damn well please.

    310. Luigi says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      21 December, 2018 at 11:16 am

      “It really is that simple. When the people of Scotland decide that Scots law overrules English/Westminster law then English/Westminster law will no longer be legally valid in Scotland.”

      But Scots need to ASSERT their sovereignty. We need to expressly tell WM that they no longer speak or act for Scotland because we will now speak and act for ourselves. The very act of telling WM that is the moment we ASSERT our sovereignty. Until we decide to do that WM can do with us what they damn well please.

      And that should now be the number one strategy of the SG and SNP. Drip, drip – gently introduce the idea to the people that WM has no right to Lord it over us. Not easy with a hostile BritNat MSM hell-bent on either ignoring the SG or plastering “SNP BAD” all over the front pages.

      It has to be done though. We need to take the people with us on this. There is a real danger here of the (successful)legal battles getting too far ahead of the politics.

      As I keep harping on, the SG needs to grab the initiative and control the narrative. How to do this? Be outrageous, be ridiculous, and sometimes be rude. Sorry but this is necessary with a powerful hostile media. Bait them into covering your story (tempt them into SNP-BAD headlines). Don’t be afraid of these – the people will just see it as another SNP Bad story, but the important thing is you are using them to control the narrative. This trumps EVERYTHING. To win all, you have to risk all. Boy, I wish Alex Salmond was still active in the constitutional battle – the others are still playing blinders, but we really need the big man as well, at this moment in time.

    311. orri says:

      My view on legal advice is that any current member of the body the administration for which requested it should be able to see it on the basis that, never mind how unlikely, they may become that administration.

      However in keeping with the confidentiality requirement said advice must nevertheless not be shared with the general public even by invoking Parliamentary Privilege.

      That is distinct from advice paid for out of the funds of a particular party and might be exempt on security grounds. That last excuse opens up the argument that members of the Privy Council would have the right regardless. To that end given the extreme danger to the economy Brexit entails it’s not just Contempt of Parliament the Government was engaged in.

    312. One_Scot says:

      Just saw a clip of the Jeremy Vine show and the topic was ‘Should we force our kids to watch the Queens speech’ at Christmas. WTAF.

      And to make matters worse you had some Scottish twat on the panel almost licking Jeremy’s ass saying how much he loves England.

      Man, if we don’t save Scotland and ourselves at the next Independence referendum, we will all be forced to live in a UK hell hole with the Queens speech on constant Loop while the whole world laughs at us.

    313. yesindyref2 says:

      I’m not a republican nor a monarchist, but the thought of listening intently to someone waffling on about horrible anuses is not my idea of stuffing the turkey. Wife likes it all the same.

    314. jfngw says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      The Scots have already declared their wishes in the EU referendum, they decided to remain members of the EU. That was the wish of the sovereign people of Scotland. So they have already stated their position in a referendum, either Westminster acknowledges that or they ignore it.

      The argument here is some that voted to remain say it was not a vote for independence, although I’m not sure that stands up as the Tories are planning the hardest Brexit and that was never clearly part of the EU referendum campaign either.

      So if there is a second EU referendum (unlikely) then it needs to be plain that a vote that differs from the rest of the UK is a effectively a vote for independence.

    315. One_Scot says:

      Given all the recent media attention at Gatwick, sales of drones this Christmas are either going to rocket or crash. Try the veal.

    316. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The real news of the day is that the conviction of al Megrahi is being dismantled as the disgusting fiction it always was exposing the so-called “Scottish” Court and the judges of bringing our legal system in disrepute at the behest of the UK and the US

      This was always an Iranian revenge on the US for the US shooting down an Iranian aircraft full of innocent Iranian pilgrims on pilgrimage. (The American commander of the ship that shot down the innocent aircraft got a honour rather than the jail).

      Well done the SNP for releasing the innocent man though they had to use a spurious reason to do so.

      Al Megrahi was an exemplary prsoner at jail in Greenock noted for the assistance he gave to less able prisoners and hugely popular with the staff.

      I due course if Scotoand is big enough it will give full apology to Al Megrahi and his suffering family.

    317. call me dave says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Thanks for that link.
      Tucked away on hard drive for the future always good to refer to.

      Radio shortbread (in the car there) phone in and tell auntie wie a kilt what we can do to make Scotland better.


      Stop running Scotland down every day in every way you stupid…!

    318. yesindyref2 says:

      Merry Christmas Rev, you’re on the ball 🙂

    319. Mark says:

      Interesting that the chief political reporter at the Glasgow Herald is part of a HMG disinformation unit…..

      David Leask – has been open about working with the Integrity Initiative. He has published two articles quoting “a spokesman for the Integrity Initiative”, one on the visit of Andriy Parubiy and one on Russian media coverage of the Salisbury poisonings. He has endorsed the output of the twitter account @initintegrity and others associated with the Integrity Initiative such as Nimmo. He responded to the release of documents with a 12 tweet thread on Twitter., acknowledging contact with the Integrity Initiative but denouncing Sputnik for “insinuation that I work for for or with a Nato/UK black ops”.
      Leask’s description of the Integrity Initiative as “a network of researchers and journalists seeking to counter Russian propaganda and boost media literacy” confirms the existence of a network. In response to further questions, Leask asserted that government funding of the Integrity Initiative was “hardly a secret”. On this he was mistaken. The official summary of the Russian Language Programme does not list the recipient “implementing organizations” stating that “Information has been withheld from publication on security grounds”. Although the government funding of £1.96 million for the Integrity Initiative in the current financial year is now a matter of public record following a parliamentary question, this information was not in the public domain until the documents were released on 5 November 2018. The source of funding for the Integrity Initiative was not mentioned on its public website. It would have been possible for a diligent researcher to infer the total FCO spending on the Institute for Statecraft by going through the monthly expenditure tables for the FCO, but this would not have revealed the specific funding for the Integrity Initiative programme. The accounts filed at Companies House show FCO funding of £124,567 for the year ending 23 November 2017, but not the £1.96 million awarded for the current financial year.

      The Integrity Initiative documents include notes of a meeting with Leask on 27 March 2018, allegedly taken by Guy Spindler, Chief Operating Officer of the Institute for Statecraft. The main focus of the interview is on Leask’s assessment of the prospects for the Scottish independence movement. The meeting finishes with a briefing on the misuse of Scottish Limited Partnerships as vehicles for money-laundering, which Leask’s own investigative reporting has helped to expose. It is not clear whether he is aware of the unusual use of this business structure by the founders of the Institute for Statecraft.”

    320. Proud Cybernat says:

      “The Scots have already declared their wishes in the EU referendum, they decided to remain members of the EU. That was the wish of the sovereign people of Scotland. So they have already stated their position in a referendum, either Westminster acknowledges that or they ignore it.”

      WM are already ignoring our view. And they ignore it because, when the EU-Ref took place, our Scottish popular sovereignty was (and still is) vested in WM. We have not (yet) taken it back. We have ‘pooled’ our sovereignty in WM which can outvote us 10:1. The only veto we have at WM is to take our sovereignty back from WM i.e. to withdraw from the Treaty of Union. Otherwise they outvote us and do with us as they wish.

    321. Brian Powell says:


      “ust saw a clip of the Jeremy Vine show and the topic was ‘Should we force our kids to watch the Queens speech’ at Christmas.”

      The answer that should be given is not yes or no, but ‘are you an idiot’.

    322. jfngw says:


      It is hard to understand people, my wife’s family were all from Ireland (Donegal/Roscommon), some only a single generation away, others moved in the mid 19th century. They were devote Queen’s speech watchers.

      Whereas my father from Staffordshire disliked the royal family with a vengeance, he would switch the TV off (no other option really in the 1960’s).

    323. Cubby says:

      Robert Peffers@9.59am

      Mr Peffers

      Glad to read that you are feeling a bit better. I thought your posts were a bit grumpier than normal.

    324. ronnie anderson says:

      Nana Thankee with great muchness , youthfullness is aw in the jeans noo that ah hiv tae shop at Primark for jeans the auldness is excelerating with much fastness .

    325. Luigi says:

      Cubby says:

      21 December, 2018 at 1:02 pm

      Robert Peffers@9.59am

      Mr Peffers

      Glad to read that you are feeling a bit better. I thought your posts were a bit grumpier than normal.

      I dunno, Cubby – Robert can be pretty grumpy at the best of times.
      He does a great job though – where would we be without him?

      All the Best, Robert, Speedy Recovery. 🙂

    326. Nana says:

      Thought I had finished but….

      Today a conference on the activities of #WhiteHelmets took place at the @UN

      Bear in mind #WhiteHelmets were among “expert speakers” proposed by #IntegrityInitiative! – How to be a better organ trafficker?

      Follow Vanessa Beeley for more

    327. Breeks says:

      Capella says:
      19 December, 2018 at 11:17 pm
      @ Thepnr – watched Gun City tonight. You’re right, it is a powerful film and well worth watching. Barcelona and the anarchists in the 1920s in the period leading up to the Spanish Civil War and Franco. All the seedy delights of a violent fascist state developing.

      A Netflix film for those who want to watch it. Netflix are certainly producing some interesting films. Ditch the BBC.

      Agreed. Netflix are going places which other film makers won’t touch, but there’s a refreshing healthiness to the quality. Outlaw King and Gun City are excellent, and I quite enjoyed Centurian too. Infinitely better than the Eagle.

    328. yesindyref2 says:

      Leask once replied to a comment on a thread on the Herald, accusing me of spreading fake news, and telling me not to do it again on the Herald forums.

      I replied with a BBC article and a government link proving what I said was correct. He never apologised, and later his reply was deleted, probably by a moderator as he’d broken his own newspaper’s forum community rules.

      But if he’s become an informant, and clearly not a very accurate one, he’s finished.

    329. Colin Alexander says:

      All I want for Christmas is my Indyref,
      is my Indyref,
      my Indyref
      See there’s no Indyref

      Gee, If I could only
      have my indyref
      then I could wish you
      Vote for independence.
      It seems so long since since I could say,
      Nicola Sturgeon’s gonnae call indyref!

      Gosh, oh gee, how happy I’d be,
      If only I say vote yes in indyref

      All I want for Christmas is my Indyref,
      is my Indyref,
      my Indyref
      Then I could wish you
      Vote for independence!

    330. Dr Jim says:

      Somewhat ironic the BBC reporting on RT breaching impartiality regulations

    331. Nana says:

      @Dr Jim

      Retaliatory move comes after UK watchdog found network RT broke impartiality rules

    332. Cubby says:


      What I want for Xmas is for you to pissoff.

    333. Dr Jim says:


      Aye but yous dun it anaw

      Trouble is there are still folk who think the news is the news and the BBC is the news and why would they NOT report everything factually

    334. Cubby says:


      Perhaps someone should buy him a grumpometer for Xmas and he can provide daily ratings.

    335. Nana says:

      Aye Dr Jim, that’s the crux of it.

      A few links while I’m here

      Hannah Bardell says
      Tried to get in to Kaiam but no one was available. Now appears the CEO Bardia Pezeshki had been to see staff the day before the announcement.

      Protests happening in Catalonia today

      Liz Castro says
      Spanish Govt comes to town and renames Barcelona’s airport without input or approval from the colony.

      Catalan independence supporters block false flag attempt

      Police beating peaceful pro-independence protesters.

      Spanish police beating up women

    336. yesindyref2 says:

      Ooooh Nana, that’ll be you in David Leask’s little black book now, as a pro-Putin Russian propogandist stooge. He’ll be reporting you to II!

      Yet, with my interest in Defence, including UKDJ, savetheroyalnavy, MOD,, I too look at RT to see what they’re saying.

      Leask is a paranoid uninformed arse, and that’s putting it politely.

    337. Nana says:


      ooh I’m so feart now. I’m off to find a safe haven 🙂

    338. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Alexander says: 21 December, 2018 at 9:37 am:

      ” … But, until a court of law or the parties involved agree that to be the case, your argument carries no legal authority.”

      You just don’t get it Colin. Those that claim sovereignty do so after appointing themselves to be the sovereign. i.e. they claim they are God’s representatives on Earth. In other words THEY not the people chose to be the authority in the state they operate in. They set themselves up as the sovereign authority and THEY then make the laws and it is THEY who are both lawmakers and law enforcers.

      THEY expect that the people they have chosen to rule over will do as the sovereign authority tells then to do and if they do not do so they will at the very least be sentenced in the courts that the sovereign authority set up to keep the people that the sovereign authority chose to rule over under the rule of law the self appointed sovereign authority set up.

      The courts the sovereign authority set up levy punishments that the sovereign authority chooses to subdue any resistance to the sovereign authority that range from a caution to the death penalty.

      Got it now Colin? To begin with the people don’t get a say in the matter they are taken over and forced to obey. Later on, in order to prevent revolution, the sovereign authority may choose to construct, (to their specifications), a rule pf law and the usually false concept of democracy.

      For example you cannot have a monarchy and a democracy at the same time because the monarch’s word is law. You cannot have a constitutional monarchy and a democracy at the same time because the Monarch’s sovereignty is held by the government making the government’s word law.

      That great beacon of democracy, the great epitome of socialism, the Soviet Union, had the Gulag system:-

      “Gulag – noun Gulag; plural noun: Gulags.

      a system of labour camps maintained in the Soviet Union from 1930 to 1955 in which many people died.

      The Salt Mines no less. The United States of America retains the Death Penalty and has Anti-Terrorist laws. The United Kingdom has the legal powers to snatch anyone of our streets and hold them without trial as suspected terrorists and there are several cases of totally innocent person’s being legally killed by the police on our streets. In one well known case an innocent man was shot and killed for the heinous crime of fixing a broken table leg and having the criminal intent of carrying it through the streets to return the mended item to its owner.

      Originally sovereignty began as a confidence trick by convincing the ignorant the, “Sovereign Being”, was chosen to rule by God to be their leader.

      The Queen of England is the latest of a long line of such person’s who claim to be God’s chosen representative yet, to date, there is absolutely no scientific basis that Gods have ever existed outside of some human person’s imagination.

      All you thus do here on Wings, Colin, is reinforce the truth that you are a believer in unionism – which unionism is based upon the union of the crowns bringing the royals of the two British kingdoms into one God chosen royal person and you have just claimed as much in this present thread of comments.

      Says it all really.

      UK Govt argues it would be indy Scotland and rUK.
      From 2014 Scotland’s Future. The Scot Govt said:
      “The content of any legal advice is confidential”.
      Both the UK Govt AND Scot Govt followed this same convention.
      Is that informing the public to allow them informed choices?
      No. It’s hiding details from the voting public, so they are voting for a pig in a poke.
      It’s not an anti-Scot Govt comment. The UK Govt did the same thing.
      These matters should be open and transparent, so the public is fully informed. And it should not just be advice received; these matters should be settled in court before the vote, so people know what they’ll get by voting YES or NO.

    339. Gary45% says:

      How do you run a worse case brexit “no fly” scenario?
      10s of thousands at the airport etc.

    340. yesindyref2 says:

      Some of these journalists just don’t have a clue how to find out what actually happened, they must lap up the proaganda outlets and reprint them faithfully, word for word. For instance:

      UKDJ: The Fleet Ready Escort, HMS York, escorted the Admiral Kuznetsov along the Channel and into the Atlantic.

      BBC: The valiant HMS York sailed alongside the Russian warship as it sailed up the English Channel on its way to the Meditarranean to support the Syrian regime.

      CNN (made up): The British Home Fleet chased a fleet of Russian Warships out of British territorial waters and into the Atlantic.

      RT: The Carrier Kuznetsov was shadowed by a British missile cruiser as she sailed in International waters in the Channel on her way to peacekeeping duties in the Mediterranean.

      What do we know actually happened from all that? Full marks to UKDJ, a little less so to the others.

    341. yesindyref2 says:

      Just watch out for that chap at the door who SAYS he’s there to read the meters 🙂

    342. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Nana 10.26: May I respectfully point out that Samallaxe and Tinto Men for Hire are not actually out of business but owing to an unfortunate misunderstanding with a local bawdy house we have had to rebrand as Smallaxe and Tinto Solutions.

      Try our new improved laundry service, motto: “We’re steaming every day!”

      Mates rates apply but please read our Ts and Cs.

      @call me Dave: you’re most welcome re EU Myths. Some real crackers in there which are very useful for presenting rebuttals (not in the Homer Simpson sense, obvs).

    343. Gary45% says:

      A wee O/T
      America land of the free???
      you tube Rick Sanchez on RT America.
      Israel loyalty oath sweeping the US.(Frightening stuff)

      I tried to post the youtube link, but it wouldn’t load up.

    344. Nana says:

      @yesindyref2 I’m peeping out from behind the curtains!

      Aha it’s all coming out in the wash now Eh? A little misunderstanding at a bawdy house was it? I will be keeping an eye on forthcoming cases at the courts for more info.

      So if you are not pressed for time…..look above you for drone drop 🙂

      @Gary45% is this the link?

    345. yesindyref2 says:

      See, the way it works perhaps is keyword assocation and context, so if you mention Leask Putin Russia a few times the searchers will find Russia Putin and Leask to be connected, so that when people do a bit of “investigative journalism” they will find a close assication between Leask, Russia and Putin and might jump to the conclusion that Russia Leask and Putin are all connected, and that Leask is a Putin stooge involved with Russia because the word count and associations says he is. As from this posting you always see the three – that’s Putin, Leask and Russia always occuring in the same long basically unPUNKuated sentence.

      But we all know he isn’t, of course 🙂

    346. yesindyref2 says:

      Oops, I just blew WWWSWICAC (WWW Secret Word In Context Analysing Crawler). MI5 will just have to get the debugger in. Or of course give the job over to the highly competent Special Branch bods.

    347. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Japan is to convert JS Izumo to be able to carry the F35, and has ordered enough F35s to make it second behind the US, ahead of the UK for numbers of the F35. Izumo is 248 metres long, classed as s “destroyer” because the Japanese constitution forbids the acquisition of offensive weapons. She cost $1.5 billion or more.

      But it made me look at the Hy?ga class, 197 metres, but also capable of taking the F35 with some modifications. That’s about the size for my LDA (rather than an LPH) for the Scottish Navy, at around £600 million. There’s getting to be more and more countries looking at the F35, often the B variant, and it’s making me think that maybe we should go for 2 small carriers / amphib supports. The Arctic is opening up, and while we need frigates, perhaps more for anti-sub, we shouldn’t ignore an air capability which could also double as mobile air defence.

    348. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      Just adding to that, things are evolving quite fast in defence terms, and what was a good plan for 2014’s defence paper, or even for one in say 2017, may well be radically different by 2019 for execution in 2021 when we’re Independent.

    349. Tinto Chiel says:

      Feeling a bit washed out at the mo but landing lights are on, Nana.


    350. Colin Alexander says:


      Are you a Scotland in Union plant being used to project an image of independence supporters as being vile and nasty bullies?

      The huge majority of indy supporters are ordinary, decent, respectful people who just want the best for Scotland and her people.

      Try to be more like them.

    351. Gary45% says:

      Cheers Nana, that’s the very one, I’ve tried a few times with youtube links, but they never seem to link into my posts.
      Thanks for that.

    352. Gary45% says:

      “Paranoid Gatwexit Bingo”.
      Is it a full house for 2 guys with Russian sounding accents spotted in Hamleys buying a drone.

    353. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindy2ref if an Independent Scotland even thinks about having the capability to project hard power anywhere outside our 200 mile limit then i am offski.
      We do not need toys like that, we have a Nation to build , it will take generations to sort out 300 odd years of “British” misrule. As for F35’s from carriers or ships if they are that good why dont the RAF want them? Never mind F35b’s I would not have any Typhoons , have you seen the cost to operate them per hour?
      And the Typhoons /F35b’s are double the price of a Gripen.
      Are you seriously suggesting that the Scots Navy should operate in the Artic seperate from Nato or any future European Defence Force?

    354. Nana says:

      @Tinto Arriving 20.00hrs 🙂

      Youtube links will appear if you remove everything before www

      A few links

      US agribusiness lobbyists paid for trip by David Davis

      Firms told to prepare for no-deal Brexit

      This is a very important thread – and I respectfully and wholeheartedly agree with every word – from the UK appointed Advocate General to the CJEU on what the Wightman decision means in practice.

    355. Nana says:

      Snuck out earlier today
      The govt has cynically just slipped out its No Deal NHS Brexit plan, Fri pm before Christmas.

      Tories admit more than 4,500 disabled people were wrongly stripped of benefits

      1/ A few of clips from this week’s DExEU SC. An incredibly impressive panel & I would recommend anyone interested in the politics, economics and legal aspects of Brexit to watch the whole session.

      Bye for now and have a good Christmas everyone.

    356. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      People will think of the F35-B as a bomber, firing off missiles into Syria say, killing civilians by mistake (or even worse, on purpose). But they are a strong defensive jet fighter as well, multi-role. The UK is ofcussing still on the Typhoon for air defence, but on the carriers the F35-B can still provide air defence for the carrier group if neccessary, though it would normally have at least 1 air defence destroyers (like Type 45).

      Think for instance of Rosyth, Leith, maybe even still Hunterson, as deep-water ports capable of handling large container ships, even up to 20,000 TEU, off-loading into smaller ones, the large ones crossing from both East and West through the opening Arctic passageways, to smaller container ships doing more coastal and local runs.

      And think defence of those container ships if neccessary, keeping the seaways open. Scotland wouldn’t be able to have a strong anti-missile frigate / destroyer contingent, but we could have a couple of small carriers capable of carrying the likes of Merlins with Crowsnest, and 4 to 6 F35-B capable of air defence, and two or three anti-sub but also general purpose frigates.

      Even without being hardcore NATO, Scotland needs to be able to defend outside that 200nm EEZ.

      In any case though, the defensive posture is entirely up to the elected Government of future iScotland, and that could be hardcore NATO (unlikely), strong NATO on peacekeeping missions, softer NATO reconnaisance and rescue, or non-NATO perhaps mercy work.

      It’s up to politicians to decide the posture, the defence establishment to supply the means.

      And of course those 2 LDAs could carry helicopters, small transports and amphibs to attend disaster areas – just as in fact the RN equivalents have.

    357. Dan Huil says:

      Dash it all! Gatwick closed down again? Darn these drones! Darn that Bertie Wooster and that Bingo Little!

    358. Lenny Hartley says:

      Yesindy2ref sorry that is utter bollocks, we have carriers patrolling up and down the artic for what? Is the Innuit pirate now a threat? If we are at War with Russia/China which are the Only Countries that could ever possibily be a threat, we will have more to worry about than a container ship full of shite from one of those Countries.
      There are no circumstances that I can see where Scotland would have any aircraft carriers even tiny ones nor f35b’s which are overpriced and cost a fortune to operate. How many countriesin the World have aircraft carriers capable of operating fixed wing aircraft, ill tell you six , UK, France, Russia, India, China and the USA.
      Give me a good reason why An Indy Scotland needs one or two and the Coffee is on me next time your on Arran ?

    359. Dr Jim says:

      The Scotsman *newspaper* is annoyed that prisoners will get Christmas dinner and it’s all the fault of the SNP for being soft on criminals

      See I would jail the guy who wrote that and his editor and anybody else who agreed with it

    360. Cubby says:


      Independence supporters do not post anti SNP Britnat crap. Try to be more like them. Impossible for you, of course, because you are a sneaky Britnat. So cut the victim crap – poor me I’m being bullied.

      If there is anyone from Scotland in Union its you – you patronising Britnat.

    361. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Lenny Hartley

      Been following this matter of the “Nations Defence” for a while now and for me it’s not about conquering the world but securing our borders, bridgeing the Greenland/Iceland/Scotland Gap and the SCO. Maritime Economic Area.

      Lots of naval ships are in the developement/planning process and I think we’ll have a good choice of our own designs or from other European countries at the appropriate time. They’re also used for multi-use projects on a daily basis.

      Fighter aircraft are however very, very expensive and as we’re not, AFAIK, intent on bombing someone, somewhere in the world or getting into US lap-dog situations then we need planes for our land defence and patrol duties.

      The Eurofighter is a good plane but getting on a bit and still not cheap. The F35 is sooper-dooper when it works but eye wateringly expensive.

      My eye is on the Gripen E/F which is a very good multi-role jet which would fit in for Scottish conditions, has good technical features/weaponry and is affordable which means more could be purchased for the Scottish role in the Nato Northern Area.

    362. Cubby says:

      Yesindyref2 for defence minister in an independent Scotland.

    363. Gary45% says:

      Forget F-35s
      Drones are the answer to bring a country to its knees.

    364. call me dave says:


      I always have a read of your Scottish Forces stuff which is a step we will need to take when independent!

      But shurley half a dozen drones would be enough! 🙂

    365. call me dave says:

      Jings snap!

    366. Thepnr says:


      I really enjoyed that recent link from the Freight Trade Association press release. It’s about time business leaders started kicking the Tories where it hurts rather than blindly supporting them as the party of business.

      He has a real go at those talking of the mythical “managed no deal Brexit” and spells out the reality of what no deal actually means.

      “A ‘managed no deal’ outcome is an idea contrived by politicians to shift the consequences of a No Deal departure from the EU onto the very people whose lives depend on the smooth movement of goods and services to keep Britain trading. This concept is a deflection of responsibility by the politicians responsible for the country’s future success onto the businesses which will be most affected by their failures.”

      More business leaders should take note and start speaking out now before it’s too late, else suffer the same fate of their workers when factories are closed and jobs moved abroad.

    367. ronnie anderson says:

      Noo ower to oor Glesga reporter .

    368. galamcennalath says:

      No deal shouldn’t be an option any sane person should be considering!

      But they are!

      Evidence of clinical insanity?

    369. Nana says:

      Theresa May’s anti-immigration crusade is disastrous for Scotland

      Better link here to the David Davis US lobbyists story

      NHS chiefs set up No Deal Brexit ‘WAR ROOM’ in major plan sneaked out before Christmas

    370. geeo says:

      So, re: Gatwick chaos.

      Who wants to place a bet that, in the next few weeks before the Brexit vote, treeza will point to the Gatwick chaos and tell us, “that is the future of ALL uk airports if my deal is voted down and we have a no deal brexit” ?

      Stinks to high heavens.

    371. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Cubby

      I support independence. I don’t support Tony Blair’s BritNat subservient devolution gilded cage.

      I support Scottish sovereignty where Scotland decides for Scotland and Scotland’s voice is respected. I don’t support BritNat EU-Refs or so-called People’s Votes where England decides for Scotland.

      I support Scotland’s vote to Remain being respected and upheld. I don’t agree with any politicians thinking they have the right to undermine Scottish sovereignty by agreeing to a so-called compromise of Single Market and Customs Union.

      I support the right of the people of Scotland to decide on whether to end the UK Union if being dragged out the EU against their will. I don’t support waiting till Scotland has been dragged out the EU before deciding what to do next.

      I support people wanting to learn more about the independence v UK Union issues without being subjected to abuse from any gutter mouth moron whose main contribution to the site is posting under multiple identities, slagging people and acting like a big wean.

    372. Shinty says:

      Good Gordon Highlanders!

      Mr Shinty has just come home with a gift of ‘Shackleton’ Whisky to celebrate the ‘Great British Arctic Exploration’ FFS

      Come to think about it, I forgot to buy drain cleaner this week.

    373. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lenny Hartley: “How many countriesin the World have aircraft carriers capable of operating fixed wing aircraft, ill tell you six

      Yes, that’s the problem. The return of a VSTOL capability has opened it up again to smaller maritime nations. There’s Japan, but there’s also Italy, Brazil, Australia, Spain, France and Turkey looking with interest at the F35-B (and Greece I think), and others will afterwards. It gives small maritime nations the opportunity to have a small naval carrier, for less than $1billion, plus cost per aircraft expected to drop below $100 million (£80 million) each. Some reasons are for status, some for actual potential use.

      @Graf Midgehunter
      Totally with you on the Gripen E/F, and to start with the C/D are totally capable and good enough for Scotland to start with – they’ve been adapted for the Meteor for instance, over the horizon 100 nm firing range.

      Saab were looking at a naval version, they might be wise to resume looking …

      @Gary / @CMD
      Well, the F35-B will be capable of operating a few drones.

      Nah, just honorary head of SUSI will do me = Scottish United Services Institute 🙂

    374. Breeks says:

      Gary45% says:
      21 December, 2018 at 6:19 pm
      Forget F-35s
      Drones are the answer to bring a country to its knees…

      Nevermind military applications, do drones have the range to fly in a couple of tins of beans from France?

    375. Gary45% says:

      looks like the Zionist Israelis are coming to save the day at Shatwick.
      Drone dome.
      These pricks have been terrorising Palestinians with this shit for years.

    376. mike cassidy says:


      Never was so much hatred owed by so many to so few.


      Where the feck is Biggles when you need him.

    377. Colin Alexander says:

      @ yesindyref2

      How about maritime patrol aircraft? Seems UK couldn’t even do that.

      Seems the RAF now has P-8A’s on order. When will they be operative?

    378. Gary45% says:

      Maybe have a look at the “African Swallow” for importing produce, I believe they can carry a full size coconut over great distances, pending weight distribution.
      Just weighed a large tin of beans 420gms, the average African swallow weighs 20.3 gms, (got that from internet as I don’t have an African swallow at hand.) if you glued some Sea Eagle wings or Caesar!tross onto said swallow, it would be able to gather more height and therefor greater speed when diving, although it may tire quicker because or wing/weight distribution. then again it would look as daft as a duck billed platypus, “no offence intended.” (mon the D B Platypus)
      Conclusion for ability to deliver a tin of beans from France is.
      I have no F*cking Idea,
      although flying beans over Gatwick seems to be quite effective.

    379. Gary45% says:

      Caesar!tross ???

    380. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I posted this comment last night, which never appeared.

      I only noticed tonight that the non-appearance was because I pasted in the h/t/t/p in the YouTube link, in my quote of Capella’s comment.

      So here’s what I typed/pasted last night.

      Hi Capella at 5:16 pm.

      You typed,

      “For those interested in the ongoing Integrity Initiative, Dark Money, election/referendum interference, smear campaigns etc all fuelled by our very own Foreign Office – here’s a video by investigative journalist Gordon Dimmack “A Very British Coup: Integrity Initiative update” 27 mins

      This is a post I did on my Facebook page a wee while ago, with a shortened version shared on various pro-indy FB pages.

      The dark forces…

      Here are two quotes from the link…

      “THE shadowy charity accused of running a British state-backed campaign against Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has confirmed it held a meeting with a leading Scottish journalist during which they were briefed on how “vulnerable” Scots were to Russian influence.

      The Integrity Initiative (II), a charity funded by the Foreign Office, British Army and MoD which has been described by the Sunday Mail as an ‘infowars’ unit, confirmed to CommonSpace it held a meeting with The Herald chief reporter David Leask.”


      “Responding to Leask’s remarks, David Miller, a Professor of Political Sociology at the University of Bristol and director of the Organisation for Propaganda Studies, said: “The II is a project of the Institute for Statecraft a Scottish charity with a registered address in a derelict Mill in Fife. It is claimed to be a project to counter Russian disinformation and it has received over £2 million in funding from the Foreign Office. However recent revelations have shown that amongst its activities it has attacked the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition – a cardinal sin in British democracy.””

    381. Gary45% says:

      No Idea what’s happening with computer.
      Big white bird that’s shit at landing on ice.

    382. Gary45% says:


    383. yesindyref2 says:

      The Poseidon MRA as it’ll be called in the UK will be at Lossiemouth in 2020 according to plan, and operative from Day 1 as the RAF crews have been working with the Yanks, including during assessment. But the Yanks are investing in Lossie for the P8-A, so I’d guess they’d be there next year (if not already).

    384. Gary45% says:

      You mention Israel and drones, paranoid???me???

    385. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Gary45%.

      Rev Stu has set up a comment filter, which looks for s-a-o-r and changes it to HAIL and, similarly, changes a-l-b-a to CAESAR!


    386. Gary45% says:

      Brian Doonthetoon@7.47
      I thought for a moment the festive drinkies were getting too much.
      maybe I’m not as paranoid as I thought I was, or am I????

    387. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Gary45%

      Stu disnae like the use of the gaelic word for Scotland that sounds like alapa in gaelic.

    388. Capella says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon – what a murky world surrounds us. It is not credible that these outfits didn’t interfere with Indyref1 and won’t interfere with every democratic movement in Scotland.

      I wonder if the smear campaign against Alex Salmond was orchestrated by II. Alan Duncan in the Commons sneakily referred to “useful idiots” when dissing RT, no doubt referring to AS.

      The hiring of “journalists” to spread disinformation is not unusual. But I was surprised to see David Leask mentioned and also Carole Cadwalladr, of all people.

      Thx for the link.

    389. yesindyref2 says:

      So the thing is see, you have an inside story and look for a journalist who you know will use the story but not reveal sources nor blab it on to the authorities, and then you see David Leask and think “nah, forget it”.

    390. Capella says:

      @ Gary45% – apparently, in the early days, many people signed their posts with slogans such as the one mentioned by BDTT. So the filter automatically alters a l b a to Caesar!. Even if referring to BBC Caesar!.

      Same with t r a i t o r – always tractor, and q-u i s l i n g becomes quizmaster.

    391. K1 says:

      Right back at ye RN ‘stupid big fuckface’…have a good yin!

    392. Gary45% says:

      Cheers all for the info regarding “big White bird with massive wing span”
      Just watched the Anna Soubry heckle from the other day from some wukfit.
      I am no fan of any Tory but the abuse she received was pretty bad, the dickhead had the cheek to call plod “little and large” or similar .
      My message to said wukfit.
      Call you and your mate Arsehole and Pieface.
      Pies, Nom Nom.

    393. yesindyref2 says:

      It makes it a bit more tricky if you trying to say Caesar!nia, and very tricky for the dyslexig trying to say Caesar!nia saoring high in something or other.

    394. yesindyref2 says:

      Hail – mmm, that worked!

    395. Iain says:

      Just wondering, will ration books be given out before the 29th of March or after?
      Anyone know?

    396. Marie Clark says:

      Nana, I thought that you were going to be taking it easy, yiv been gon yer dinger the day wi a’ the links.Look after yourself please, we need you and a’ the ithers, it looks as if the end game might not be too far away now.

      Thanks for the good wishes and the wee tune on OT.

    397. Pete Barton says:

      For all Wingers and lurkers, non Wingers and all of you whatever your political persuasion

      Peace, a little more love and tolerance..

      Have yourselves time out this festive period from the woes of the world..

      Just let it be.

      Care being the best 4 letter word I can think of right now.

      Let’s do it.

    398. cearc says:


      Probably, after. I believe (on no evidence whatsoever) that they will be printed by the same french folk doing the blue passports and so will get stuck in customs for a few months.

    399. geeo says:

      Shinty @7.12pm

      If it is the original Series 1 remastered Shackleton (circa £100) from the original 100 year old bottles found under the expedition hut, I can only say, it was a fantastic dram.

      The latest £20 odd quid effort is indeed, only fit for the drains.

    400. Cubby says:


      Methinks you protest too much.

      You forgot your final line::

      I am a sneaky PHONEY Independence supporting Britnat.

    401. cynicalHighlander says:


      Aircraft cariers are medievil in todays world the chinese have developed a missile that gets under their radar making them sitting ducks, can’t remember its name atm.

    402. Legerwood says:

      UK Government ordered to pay costs to Wightman and co in Article 50 case – £105,000

    403. Gary45% says:

      Fleetwood Macs Caesar!nia
      A classic.

    404. Colin Alexander says:

      Alex Salmond: “Even the Scottish contingent seems unsure as to when or whether to launch their Caledonian lifeboat and chart our own course for the continent”.

      SNP MP Angus MacNeil: “A People’s Vote’s going nowhere at the moment, and my concern is the SNP are spending a lot of energy following that route, when the route for the SNP, the whole reason for being, is for Scottish independence.

      “That’s the route we should be following in this huge opportunity that this Brexit disaster is giving Scotland to become independent.”

      Nice that some people in the SNP remember the reason for the SNP’s existence.

      The SNP weren’t created to administer UK colonialism at Holyrood.

    405. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      21 December, 2018 at 12:03 pm

      “The real news of the day is that the conviction of al Megrahi is being dismantled as the disgusting fiction it always was exposing the so-called “Scottish” Court and the judges of bringing our legal system in disrepute at the behest of the UK and the US”

      May I again ask where you buy your rose-tinted specs, Dave?

      Because by looking at everything with your rose-tinted specs, you are spreading FAKE NEWS.

      The Megrahi appeal was very recently dismissed by a Scottish court which ruled that the original judgement by the Scottish court was proper.

      The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

    406. Gary45% says:

      must learn to read real good, “tooo much Drambers.”
      Fleetwood Macs.
      I struggle with British as a first language.

    407. yesindyref2 says:

      Yes, there’s a few supersonic 2 or 3 stage missiles, Brahmos Russia and India, the HD-1 for China and previous ones. Capable of 2,3 4 mach. Arguably they can be defended against, e.g. Aegis which has bee tested in exercise (off Scotland). They’re all also working on hypersonic missiles, mach 5 or greater. I daresay they’ll be working on defending against them as well!

      Personally I think the world might end up back to bows and arrows, big rifles and 16″ naval guns, even bigger land ones capable of sending shells 200 miles or more.

      Problem with defence is if it gets saturated with simultaneous attack.

      Maybe in 50 years they’ll just play chess or poker to see who dominates the world. Or cut a pack of cards, aces high.


    408. yesindyref2 says:

      Of course, not forgetting lasers which are (or nearly) operational, then we’ll be going back to the 70s idea of masers (concentrated sound), then strangely forward to Liz Truss who reckons dogs barking at drones can bring them down.

      She may be ahead of the times (only half a smiley!).

    409. Graf Midgehunter says:


      Scotland doesn’t need aircraft carriers, we ARE an aircraft carrier.

      Scotland sticks up into the North Atlantic like a sore thumb, surrounded on three sides by water. It’s only 830Km from Cape Wrath to Iceland with the Faroes in the middle.
      Not forgetting Orkney and Shetland as possible forward bases.

      Rockall’s runway is a bit on the short side though… 🙂

    410. Fireproofjim says:

      I agree that these massive aircraft carriers are tempting targets, if not sitting ducks, in any conflict with a technologicaly advanced enemy.
      The military mind always fights the last war.
      Useless cavalry were deployed to France in 1914 when machine guns made them obsolete.
      The army sat behind trenches in 1939/40 while the Germans had developed fast tank warfare.
      The jet engine, (a British design) was described by the Air Ministry as a useless toy and could have been produced years earlier than 1944. In fact they also planned to equip the RAF with slow biplanes and it was only the private initiative of Hawker and Supermarine in risking their own money that meant the Spitfire and Hurricane were ready to face the Nazis.
      In 1943 the Admiralty ordered HMS Vanguard, the biggest battleship they had ever built, when they must have seen that aircraft carriers were the future. It never fired its guns in anger but needed a fleet of escort ships to protect it from aircraft!
      It was ever thus and the aircraft carriers may be seen as an expensive folly.
      I hope not.

    411. ben madigan says:

      totally O/T folks – the annual Christmas card Appeal for irish republican prisoners – hope you can all stretch to a card and postage.

      PS I would publish a similar appeal for the catalan political prisoners if i could find the relevant info – names and gaols
      Can anybody help?

    412. Roughian says:

      Falklands war Royal Navy estimated 30% losses. What they didn’t estimate was the 30% would be capital ships. Coventry, Antelope, Ardent, and Sheffield. It then became a very close run thing.

    413. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      I see there’s some astroturf protest outside BBC demanding they ‘come clean’ on climate change. Never seen such an obvious attempt to make an issue they already have a very positive and loud opinion on, seem as if it’s not getting enough coverage. Fuck off.

      There was some twat on radio 4 describing Thatcher as a visionary for using the term ‘climate change’ before it entered the common lexicon. Jesus.

    414. TJenny says:

      Reluctant Nationalist – Ooh – ‘THE BBC’s New Broadcasting House (NBH) in London is on lockdown after a climate change protest erupted outside’. Nice timing to coincide with the narrative of eco warriors possibly behind the drone attack on Gatwick.

      Mibbees aye or mibbees MI5 jackanory script.

    415. Tam says:

      As someone once said on here,,,,fuck the good ship HMS Engurland and all who sail on her.

    416. Big Phil says:

      A drone can shut down an airport cos it might bring down an aeroplane…. excuse me but aeroplanes can take down a whole building, A wee drone cannae do nothing to a big aeroplane, then again a wee bird can crush an aeroplanes cockpit, forgive me for being stupid but am i stupid?????

    417. yesindyref2 says:

      Didn’t take long for another one to appear and show its colours 🙁

    418. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Do the Chinese have a hypersonic missile? I remember reading something a while back.

    419. Dr Jim says:


      The police are following a number of lines of enquiry

      That’s police speak for *we’ve got nothing* because they probably haven’t worked out yet they’re probably being controlled by more than one controller and likely mobile and not fixed locations

      You can’t just watch it to see which way it goes away then try to follow, if you do you might miss the other one appearing in the opposite direction, why do they keep thinking it’s one drone

      These guys have got guts though they must know if they’re caught they’ll go so far back in jail they’ll have to pump air into them forever that’s if they’re allowed to live because they’ll treat them like terrorists and go after them armed

      The Brits don’t like it when you cost them money and take the Mickey
      Apart from all the folks being disrupted from getting home and stuff which is rotten for them I admire the audacity of these guys

      But I’ve been saying for about four or five years you don’t need to kill people to bring down a country when you’ve got technology and know how to use it even though this is just basic kite flying the cost must be enormous to the Brits

      What’s next? Heathrow, Trains, close motorways, the Sky’s the limit (pardon the pun)

    420. Dr Jim says:

      Marvel are sending Iron Man

    421. TJenny says:

      Westminster’s sending ironic man.

    422. yesindyref2 says:

      The real answer to a drone of course, is to send in the … chanter.

    423. TJenny says:

      Get the Queen bee to give it a buzz. 🙂

    424. TJenny says:

      ‘Sussex Police said two people had been arrested shortly after 10pm on Friday “as part of our ongoing investigations into the criminal use of drones which has severely disrupted flights in and out of Gatwick Airport”‘. According to Sky news. Hmmm.

    425. Dr Jim says:

      Liz Truss says they’ve got a dog to bark at it,
      some serious thinking going on right enough

      Have they not thought about sending up their own drone for some aerial combat, at least they could get more entertaining film, or enlist Santa, he’s due to be flying over he could shoot it doon wae ane o the weans’s Ray Guns

      Remember when they said Scotland couldnae handle being Independent

    426. Dr Jim says:


      Och we were just gettin started wae the jokes and they go and capture them

    427. TJenny says:

      Or have they? Desperate to stop lookin’ so usless while the world looks on and laughs at Mr Bean’s Westmister, have they just trawled the net for some hapless souls who bought themselves a ‘Build your own drone’ kit for their chrissy?
      (wee stroking chin faced rhingy)

    428. Liz g says:

      Wiz it no that airport that Tony Blair ordered tanks tae surround a few years back as well?

    429. Golfnut says:

      @ Graf midgehunter.
      ‘ not forgetting Orkney and Shetland as forward bases ‘

      That would be my preference, for both the Navy and air force. The shorter range Corvettes could be based there on rotation.

    430. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dr Jim and T.Jenny and yesindyref2 – you swines , I was drinking coffee when I came across your triple act!

      Ironic Man really did it though!

    431. Cubby says:


      Back to your normal SNP baaaaadd.

      Who says the SNP are baaaaad all the time. Britnats of course. Britnat Colinshit.

    432. Shinty says:

      geeo – I bow to your knowledge – didn’t realise the significance.
      (sad old person that I am, I’ve become overly sensitive to anything Scottish being branded as ‘Great British’)

    433. Breeks says:

      Regarding obsolete aircraft carriers, I once read something about the aircraft component being obsolete.

      In time, they will not need big runways and vast hangars for complex cutting edge aircraft, but instead be kitted out like a floating production line factory to determine which configuration of weapon system it needs, then producing cheap but effective unmanned drones which can do everything a conventional aircraft might in terms of striking targets, reconnaissance, or defending the ship, but unit cost of each drone if lost or destroyed is a fraction of the cost of an aircraft and its pilot, and might be replaced in a few minutes by the onboard construction of another drone specially configured to its task.

      These kinds of aircraft carriers \ factories will themselves be a fraction of the size and cost of a conventional carrier, but still have the same strategic value and strike capacity, but put to sea with capacity to create and replenish its air attack capacity according to requirements.

      If that sounds implausible, it’s already happening with cruise missiles like Tomahawk which can carry alternative payloads. What do you get if you cross a Tomahawk with a stealth drone and a mobile production facility to manufacture them as an when they are needed? A 21st Century aircraft carrier that makes Darth Vader’s BattleStar conceptually obsolete.

    434. Ken500 says:

      The Tories last Christmas supper. Supping with the devil. Only 3 weeks+ to go. Then into oblivion.

      Happy Christmas. A better New Year. The Tories to be gone soon is everyone’s Christmas wish.

      Independence a life time wish for many getting closer. Till it is over the line. Something to look forward to a really, really good historic year. Many will bring a toast to that.

      The Tory/unionist Christmas party shambles. A total mess. To cap it off the droning on and on and on. A world laughing stock. The Westminster unionists shocking, appalling behaviour.

    435. Ken500 says:

      Cameron destroyed aircraft then had to order more. Wasted £Billions. £Billions gave been wasted on Defence and redundant weaponry. Contracts abandoned and not fulfilled., Nothing delivered and then alternatives ordered. Then the same happening and problems with procurement. Politicians then going on to be employed by arms and munition companies. Westminster knew of a vast illegal bribery procurement scheme with the Saudis. Going on since the 1960’s. The Saudis shut it down. Not the UK Gov. An absolute scandal.

      HS2 and Hinkley Point are a total waste of public money. Both will be years late and over budget. With no business case. Total lies have been told about both projects. The Tory slush fund. Noses at the trough, including Cameron. The British Chinese consortium. A total racket.

      The trawlers act as look outs. Trident dumped in Scotland illegally and unlawfully, without permission. A total waste of money. With Brexit it will be gone. Another fine mess. For others to clean up. Amber Rudd fathef was a crook and Javid the failed banker. Two migrants discussing who to throw out. Westminster ‘foreign’ spouses. Will they be chucked out? Neil’s foreign wife. Lying sycophant hypocrites.

      Scotland is half empty . The population has stagnated because of Westminster centralist policies. Taking £Billions illegally and secretly out of Scotland to fund London S/E. They got rid of nuclear base 20 mins from London in 1992 but dump their waste in Scotland. Or fly it all around the world. Yet a drone can ground aircraft. There are measures to control birds.

    436. Nana says:

      A few links [pretend I’m not here haha]

      This 16 Days of Action (2018) we at Scottish Women’s Aid were thrilled to host First Minister Nicola Sturgeon in conversation with Akwugo Emejulu, feminist, activist and academic whose research looks at race, class and gender and women of colour’s grassroots activism.

    437. Nana says:

      Surprised to be trolled by the UK Department for International Trade describing Scotland as a ‘region’!

      I knew Capita ran the UK gov, seems to be news to some folk

      Calling the BBC to complain about its Tory prejudice & found I wasn’t calling the BBC but Capita whom the BBC hires to deal with complaints. Capita is the company the govt use to cut the PIP of needy people. Capita makes its profits by denying people rights. The BBC hires it too.

      2018 has been a troubling year for those who support public service broadcasting and the national broadcaster’s remit to INFORM not just entertain

    438. Nana says:

      Rest In Pay me £2.35: Scottish Tory MP Colin Clark claims for sympathy card on his Commons expenses

      Ministers: May’s plan for three-year spending review is a fantasy

      Hard Brexit warning of reinforced anti-terror units at border in Ireland

      No-deal Brexit stockpiling? Don’t forget the sumac

    439. Nana says:

      Ian Blackford says
      Well i did say in Parliament this week that @jeremycorbyn is the midwife for delivering Brexit, this Guardian article confirms it. Leaving the EU will cost jobs and prosperity as well as stripping away our rights as EU citizens

    440. Nana says:

      The Scottish Clearances by TM Devine review – lives ruined for profit

      So, it’s been a hellish week. The family business was started by my grandad after the war. Most employees have been with us for a long time.

    441. robbo says:

      Embarrassment of the year surely goes to that fool who just said on Sky Sports news that Aberdeen beat Celtic in league cup.

    442. yesindyref2 says:

      That’s about it basically. Way before any piece of military hardware is deployed it’s obsolete, as for the supercarriers there are those who argue they should have 4 or 6 times as many but way smaller and cheaper.

    443. geeo says:

      Re: Drones.

      Lets hope terrorists never figure out how to strap a block of explosives onto one and drop it onto strategic targets, if a couple of guys can ground the Uk’s 2nd biggest airport with drones.

      Although, to be fair, a couple of drones have probably shut Gatwick longer than a terrorist bomb would have.

      For all the high tech warfare and surveillance equipment, it took days to catch a couple of guys flying drones at an airport.

      Maybe spend more on ‘domestic’ crime busting tech and less on ‘door knocking bomb-o-gram’ smartbombs.

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