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Satan’s Little Helper

Posted on December 22, 2018 by
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Breeks

Aye, the Devil’s not in the detail when it comes to Brexit. Another belter Chris.

Jingle Bells, May’s Deal smells,
Corbyn runs away.
Europe laughs at UK gaffs,
And Scotland cites Constitutional Sovereignty to unilaterally revoke Article 50 and stay in the EU,
Laughing all the way…

How’s that for a poetic ending?

uno mas

The strap line is almost better than the cartoon.

Morgatron

Belter Chris, Im sure Corbyn shouting, “look! no strings” , he is an embarrassment of a politician. Never have i witnessd such a dearth of political standards, thank god for the SNP. Merry Christmas, Stu, Chris & my fellow indy travellers out there in Wingsland.

Truth

Ok, the devil is a caricature of Norman Tebbit and I claim my £5.

Davy

There’s a Christmas message we won’t forget.

its a “cracker” Chris.

Sharny Dubs

Right on the button as usual Chris.
Seasons greetings to Stu, Chris, all the Wings team and all wingers everywhere.
Get a rest and let’s gear up for 19’ I think it’s going to be a belter!

wull2

He just pops back to say. He will be back in the New Year to collect the other part of the contract, and to wish an Independent Scotland a Happy New Year when it comes.

BuggerLePanda

Happy CRIMBLES everyone.

Undeadshaun

Corbyn admits he wants brexit..

“Corbyn: Brexit would go ahead even if Labour won snap election”

link to archive.is

galamcennalath

Brilliant. And spot on assessment of the situation as always.

Corbyn is playing a walk on role in the this incredibly dangerous ‘game’.

The Tories and their media are pushing ‘no deal’. Either they want actually it, or perhaps it’s a tactic to scare MPs to vote for May’s ‘deal’. People’s lives, livelihoods, and futures a on the line. Corbyn and Labour are completely failing to act in any interests other than party ones.

The old saying .. hate Tories for what they are, but hate Labour for what they are not! Ordinary folks put trust in Labour to look after their interests but for decades this has been misplaced. Tories don’t hide what they are while Labour pretend to be something they are not.

mogabee

Dramatic toon and spot on Chris!

Happy Solstice all you demon lovers and Merry Christmas to everyone else. 😀 😀 😀 😀

Gary45%

“The puppet master and the confused pensioner.”
Nice one Chris.
Labour just like the Tories, bereft of any ideas.

Ken500

The devil’s in the detail. The bonfire of the vanities.

Socrates MacSporran

Remember the First Minister’s throw-away line about calling the media to Bute House on Christmas Eve, to announce Indyref2.

Why not? Satan’s Little Helper, in a Guardina interview today, stresses, even if a Labour Government could re-negotiate a better Brexit deal than the Maybot has managed, we would still be leaving.

The EU has already said: “take it or leave it on this deal,” so, it is that deal or No Deal.

I have supported the FM’s plan of giving Westminster enough rope to produce a satisfactory deal, it is now clear, whether it is a Blue or a Red Tory who is talking with the EU, the UK is leaving.

The Sovereign will of the Scottish people – that we remain inside the EU – is being ignored.

Monday would be a very good day on which to pull the rug from under them and call Indyref2.

Please Nicola – go for it.

Ken500

Labour changed the electoral system in Scotland without a mandate. To let 3rd rate losers in. So unionists could wreck the Parliament. Voting down powers.

Labour now playing with teachers remuneration. Not agreeing a revised offer. Even though there is funds made available.

[…] Wings Over Scotland Satan’s Little Helper Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland […]

Ghillie

It is horrible to see anyone with the devil on their back, no matter who they are.

But the leader of the Labour party has it in his in power to make a worthwhile difference to the lives of every soul living in the UK.

And what Jeremy needs to remember is that the devil has no power. Only the power we give him.

Do the right thing Mr Corbyn, stop acting the fool and look to the SNP to show you the way out of this diabolical mess.

Robert J. Sutherland

Brexit, any Brexit, will bring a new economic downturn, it’s clear. A new tightening of the austerity screw. Which will be jolly for the disaster capitalists but for ordinary folk already finding it hard to make ends meet, not so much.

“For the many not the few” has never rung so false and hollow from this shrunken has-been messiah.

(Not to forget his Northern branch stooge. The little helper’s little helper.)

Ken500

They will not be able to leave the EU, without Armageddon. It is impossible. Whatever way they try to sell it. Just a joke. The ‘deal’ costs more with less rights. They will cause a recession. Beyond stupid. They could have brought in measures to limit migration in England, within the EU. It would not make any difference in any case. The migration into Europe is caused by the illegal wars and Westminster debt and borrowing. It is UK Gov policies which has caused the biggest wealth gap (in the UK) and the biggest debt in the world. Absolute nothing to do with the EU.

Low wages in the UK are caused by UK Gov policies wasting too much on illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Wages would go up if they were sorted out. There would be more money for essential services. The UK has been mismanaged by Westminster imbeciles since 1928. The North/South divide caused by Westminster centrist policies. Westminster criminality and lies. Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years.

Nana

Labour so willing to do the devil’s work.

Times interview with ?@johnmcdonnellMP?
– I can talk to DUP & can see us working together
– Winning vote of no confidence depends on DUP
– Gordon Brown has offered to advise us in power

link to twitter.com

Links on previous thread

galamcennalath

More than most of Chris’s cartoons, this one is certainly relevant beyond Scottish politics.

This should be seen far and wide, by as many folks as possible around the UK.

Twitterated and facebookised, or whatever social media propagation is call!

Robert Peffers

Right on the mark as usual, Chris, every one gets better than those before.

Here’s another guy who could see through the fog of bullshit and always hit the mark:-

link to youtube.com

I’m tending to become rather more cynical in my old age.

ScottishPsyche

Labour and the DUP prepared for a dirty deal to deliver Brexit to people who increasingly don’t want it.

Every time I don’t think I can despise Labour any more they make it so easy to go to the next level. A party operating in a parallel universe who will do ANYTHING to get into government.

Keeping Scotland tied to the Union is an obsession for them beyond moral or practical reason. Do they not understand we can see their naked ambition and what they are prepared to do for it?

Hamish100

Spot on cartoon.

Corbyn and Labours problem is that he and many key individuals (strangely TU leaders who should be concerned about jobs) are brexiteers.

They side with Rees-Mogg, Johnston, Davis, Gove and May.

There is no doubt that Independence is better than any form of Brexit. The benefit of jobs coming to Scotland rather than Ireland or elsewhere is clear. The benefit to our young folk is absolute.

There is no doubt Scotland must have the right to choose and I am sure our First Minister is aware of this. Timing is all.

galamcennalath

Two threads appear in the media today. Firstly Corbyn would continue with Brexit, which make Labour unelectable in a GE. Secondly, Osborne say May must prevent a Brexit disaster or the Tories will end up in a prolonged period of opposition.

What is interesting here is that Brexit has the potential to be a poisoned chalice for both Lab and Tories.

Scot Finlayson

The film of the book `Fame is the Spur` is on,

`The central character, Hamer Shawcross, starts as a studious boy in an aspirational working-class family, he becomes a socialist activist and soon a Brutish Labour Party career politician, who eventually is absorbed by the upper class establishment he had begun by combating.`

the book was written in the 1930`s,

the desire/lust for ermine has been in the snout of Brutish Labour politicians since the very beginning,

and the downtrodden keep getting suckered into voting them in.

jfngw

I spotted that Labour and Tory run councils are trying to block a revised offer to teachers. They want a strike, it’s about politics.

This is the reason they want more power handed down at local level. It’s not about more democracy, most council elections have a horrendous turnout (in the 30%s). Some are elected with little more than 15% of potential voters choosing them. It’s because they feel they can take power with little support, if they believed in this devolution of how come they never did it when they had total control at Holyrood/Westminster.

Even better in local elections with he STV, system they can effectively keep out the SNP in many areas, even when they are the largest party.

As for Corbyn, he’s always been anti-EU from when we joined the EEC. Why would the change now. He is the epitome of the champagne socialist, comfortably off but willing to see the poor suffer to achieve his socialist nirvana. Pure socialism can never work because the self serving will just change their clothes and work the system in a different manner, you just end up with the same elite living in relative luxury.

Jack collatin

2The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world that he didn’t exist.’
‘Verbal’ in ‘The Usual Suspects’.
McDonnell in bed with the DUP and Broon brought back from the Elephants’ Graveyard to ‘advise’ a Marxist Christian Fundamentalist UK Government?
A script writer could not make this ridiculous nonsense up.
January will be fun.
Holiday companies will go out of business in the first four weeks of the new year.
No freedom of movement..no matter whether it is US Blockade style Blue Tories or Soviet Socialist Red Tories in charge of crashing out of the EU.
Merry wotsit, to all.

Josef Ó Luain

The current political reality is that Corbyn leads a broken Party in a broken polity and that there’s no way back to the status-quo-ante for either Labour or the Tories. A dangerous vacuum has been created in British politics which, if history is any guide, will be filled by the extreme/populist Right.

Dan Huil

Out of britnat chaos shall Scotland’s independence return.

mumsyhugs

Regardless of whether it’s JC’S or TM’s face on his ‘helper’, they’re both the spawn of the devil.

Gary45%

Like many I thought Corbyn was the answer for the Southern electorate, for me his continued stance on highlighting the plight of the Palestinians is heroic, however to be so far behind in the polls against what is clearly the worst government this country has ever witnessed, (I say that with heavy heart, as I thought Thatcher and Bliar had that accolade).
It is now very clear Labour will do ANYTHING to get the popular vote. (totally clueless on every level)
In Scotland it is now so clear, if we don’t get Independence we are well and truly FKD.
This time last year we all wondered what 2018 would bring, did any of us imagine it being this bad?
Christ knows what 2019 bring.

Marcia

In last year’s UK General Election Labour gained seats in Southern England such as Canterbury because of the student vote thinking Corbyn and Labour would keep them in the EU. How stupid they were. Labour giving different messages about the EU will be their undoing at the next election. Next lot of infighting for 2019- Labour MP’s.

Foonurt

Deil’s awaw, wae thoan excisemin.

Breeks


Robert J. Sutherland says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:58 am
Brexit, any Brexit, will bring a new economic downturn, it’s clear. A new tightening of the austerity screw. Which will be jolly for the disaster capitalists but for ordinary folk already finding it hard to make ends meet, not so much.

You’re absolutely right, but just Christmas has become a commercial exercise in capitalism that is increasingly detached from its religious significance, it is equally remiss to see Brexit as just an economic issue. I think it will be robustly much, much worse than that.

Just as the French were kinda stigmatised by their Revolution and Napoleon, the Germans stigmatised by Hitler, the Russians by their Communism, the Italians by their surrender…. “Britain” and the outright stupidity of Brexit, not least the pure fecklessness of UK politicians, will leave a legacy that will run for decade after decade.

Every single British person heading into a sales meeting across the globe might now have to live with the damage to his professional gravitas and integrity caused directly by Brexit – the monumental stupidity which the “whole country” backed to the hilt.

You think American Diplomats have it tough representing the USA that elected Trump?

John Cleese will have come full circle. Instead of ribbing Manuel not to mention the war in front of his German guests, the Germans will now be giggling and stealing themselves not to mention Brexit in front of the British. Brexit is THAT stupid.

How did it come to this? Let’s not kid ourselves the Tory Brats in Westminster had the wits or three dimensional special awareness to dream up this Galaxial sized misadventure. Their failing wasn’t in dreaming this Brexit Malarkey up, their cataclysmic failure was in failing to prevent this reckless ideological stupidity which did dream this up from snowballing into an unstoppable populist avalanche that is out of control.

When an idiot is in charge, conventional wisdom is to remove that idiot and put in somebody smarter than the idiot. Westminster seems he’ll bent on replacing one idiot with an even bigger idiot, and given the Nation a balanced choice of Idiot May, Idiot Johnson, Idiot Rees-Mogg, or Idiot Corbyn. Thankfully we seem to have escaped Idiot Davidson, but let’s not be too hasty to think Westminster has given up on that delusional idiocy.

It was a quite an eye opener to see Anna Sourby getting aggressively heckled in the street. But you know what bizarre tangent jumped into my head? No lie, I promise you, I thought of those Scottish “Noblemen” who sold Scotland down the river in 1707 and were afraid for their safety walking down the street. Don’t misread what I’m saying, I’m not saying that’s acceptable conduct, but our “chums” down in England are bloody angry.

We need to get with Europe. Yes, actually with Europe, but in this context I mean we catch up with Europe and start dealing with Brexit as a damage limitation exercise. For better or worse, (better???), Brexit is coming, and Scotland needs to make damned sure it is standing on the right side of the tourniquet when the severance occurs.

Jack collatin

Arlene’s ‘red lines’ may include, and the list is not exhaustive, that the Corbyn Commies ban same sex marriage, abortions, ban Darwinism being taught in schools, outlaw Catholicism and Jewry, insist on a permanent militarily enforced border from Newry to the Atlantic coast, the inalienable right for Norn Irn Loyalists to march anywhere they like, …och, no, I’m being really stupid now.
We now know. In Scotland, if you vote Red Tory, you are voting to leave Europe, and support politicians who preach that the earth was created 4000 years ago, and that the sun orbits the Earth which is of course at the centre of the Universe.
Is McDonnell really this thick?

Robert J. Sutherland

Breeks @ 11:46:

standing on the right side of the tourniquet

Nifty phrase of the day, I reckon! Heh, heh.

Tam

The Gatwick story had ran out of steam so the BBC turn to old faithful “Russia Bad”.

We hear that the English Navy have sent the mighty Survey vessel,,HMS Echo into the Black Sea to give support to Ukraine in their time of need. HMS Echo usually survey’s the sea bed , but here she is their to deter the Russians from taking any further action against the Ukrainian Navy.

Armed with her two pea shooter guns, the Russians will be shaking in their boots at the sight of England’s HMS Echo ,

Or maybe not, lol.

Ghillie

Breeks @ 11.46 am

I think you have hit a whopping big nail on the head that brexshit will for evermore be a British stigma.

There is plenty that has gone before in the history of the British empire that should make their toes curl with shame… but Brexit is the one that will stick.

In the words of a wise woman, What a clusterbourach!

Dr Jim

Thur aw headin fur the Bad Fire as aw oor Grannies used tae say

orri

Just remember it wasn’t the SNP that brought down Labour in 1979 it was the unions.

Nothing like bins uncollected, bodies not buried and weans not taught to get the backs of the electorate up.

And the Tories are egging them on as long as it attacks the SNP. No doubt ready to swoop in to save the day no doubt led by Mighty Mouth.

Tom Kane

Chris, Stu
Merry Christmas to you!!

Re Corbyn… I know he’s a Britney through and through… There is some weird mind jiggery pokery going on with him… I think he really does think things would be better for Britain in a socialist satellite state on the edge of Europe. I do think he feels for Palestinians… And I do think he feels for the very, very poor and destitute. And England’s young really do need him. And they trust him. And want to love him.

One of my highlights of the year was the Glastonbury crowd doing a change of lyrics to White Stripes and singing “o Jeremy Corbyn” link to m.youtube.com

But I don’t think he realises that he is a Tory enabler… And I mean red and blue Tory enabler. The man eat him for breakfast.

And a UK out of Europe with the Tories in power and a bunch of Henry 8th powers to recreate a British constitution in their image. That doesn’t bear thinking about. Not if they win the next general election. Not even if Labour win the next one and then the Tories get in the time after that.

England deserves better than that. Scotland needs better than that. We really do need to go from this monstrous mother of all parliaments and set up something that responds to the will of the people. Just watched Springsteen on Broadway… Hope we are coming to the end of our own dark chapter and that Scotland’s history, which is so amazing, evolves in a brighter way in the years ahead.

Merry X one and all…

geeo

Kevin McKenna: Why is Scottish Labour determined to let down Scotland?

link to archive.is
……….

Liked this bit…

Foolishly, Richard Leonard, Labour’s latest leader in Scotland, continues to oppose independence while exhibiting no shred of original thinking on policy that might make his party attractive once more to the tens of thousands of its former supporters who have abandoned it”.
………..

Kevin having one of his pro indy days, guy must have splinters from all that fence sitting.

Tom Kane

Sorry for the long post… Chris, your work goes deep.

Sorry for typos my little helper has a bad habit of retyping words for me… Above, for Britney read Britnat … For man read MSM eating him for breakfast … Or maybe not…

Colin Alexander

If the UK drags Scotland out of the EU with no Single Market membership And no Customs Union membership, Rock would be proved to have been right all along about Nicola Sturgeon flogging a dead horse.

If Brexit UK isn’t a big enough disaster for Scotland, add to that Rock being proved right, and never letting Wings forget it, by posting it again and again ad infinitum.

That’s how bad it could be haha.

Clapper57

I wish people would open their eyes and see that Corbyn is not progressive …..he is endorsing the status quo. His style of politics are not kinder, gentler or honest they are as cut throat, disingenuous and dishonest as all other Unionist parties at WM.

I do however hope that those Scots who were brainwashed into the notion that Corbyn was somehow different and decent are at last seeing that his blatant weakness and inability to promote a strong position on Brexit is a strong indication that he is actually no different to other Unionist politicians and that his so called decency does not extend to recognising and respecting how Scots voted in EU referendum.

Corbyn does not have the courage to admit he wants to leave the EU because , like May , he needs to hide behind the ‘will of the people’ to endorse this damaging policy.

Corbyn , like May, is same old same old.

Scotland can surely aspire to higher expectations than just accepting the status quo under WM rule with the likes of May , or whoever replaces her, or Corbyn.

Brexit has exposed the weakness of being a part of a (non) Union that has allowed democracy to be hijacked by one part of the (non) Union to the detriment of the other.

Corbyn , like May, endorses this as will all other Unionist leaders that will follow him and her within WM.

I choose not to endorse this as my future….I want better.

Hope everyone who reads and posts on here will have a happy Xmas with family and friends and will raise a glass to toast those who are no longer here.

call me dave

Deil or No Deil!

Jeremy passes by on the other side abrogating his responsibilities no good Samaritan him! 🙁

Maybe some day Scots will finally decide there is only one way to go from here on in.

“Maybe someday” says Harmonica as he leaves 🙁

——————————————–
Worth a watch over Christmas:

link to youtube.com

sassenach

Coco@12-38pm
For gawds sake gie us peace, man.

You and your sidekick, Rock, should maybe start your Xmas ‘leave’ early. You ain’t fooling anyone here.

Colin Alexander

Then to add to Rock’s gloating:

There would be moaning and moaning from me that the Scot Govt / SNP MSP manifesto promised indyref if there was a significant event such as Scotland BEING dragged, (NOT IF IT HAS BEEN DRAGGED), out of the EU, against her will.

I would point out the ripping up of the convention on what is devolved or reserved would also be a significant event that triggers the indyref commitment.

That these issues obligated the SNP to hold an indyref.

That failure to do so would be a broken promise of the SNP’s core policy to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to assert Scotland’s sovereignty by voting on independence, (instead of the SNP acting as the UK’s colonial Scottish Govt).

Undeadshaun

2 cheeks oh the same arse!

Malky

When Evil meets Eeejit.

K1

As ever England will continue to vote for the devil it knows…anyone who votes for Labour in Scotland in the belief that some ‘socialist paradise’ is on offer from down south, really hasn’t been paying attention.

We told you all back in 2017…they are the Tories little helpers, and Tory and Devil are interchangeable terms.

schrodingers cat

social media awash with labour voters spitting out the dummy at corbyn.

@PeteWishart
4h4 hours ago
Apparently there’s all sorts of private polling showing them tanking in the midlands and the North East. Their days of being simultaneously anti and pro Brexit is coming to an end.

@IanMurrayMP

The @UKLabour was supposed to be driven by its members – when it suits the leadership of course. The members and CLPs want a @peoplesvote_uk as passes at conference. This is utterly contemptuous of the party and a betrayal of the country.

franky is in rare form today
link to theguardian.com

joanna cherry rips rees mogg a new one on bbcaq, huge cheers.
cant do link thingy

K1

As ever England will continue to vote for the devil it knows…anyone who votes for Labour in Scotland in the belief that some ‘socialist paradise’ is on offer from down south, really hasn’t been paying attention.

We told you all back in 2017…they are the Tories little helpers, and Tory and Devil are interchangeable terms…

K1

Ah…double post…apols.

Cubby

Rockshit = Colinshit = Britshit.

Jock McDonnell

Have no doubt or fear, Eck knows exactly what he is doing. And so does the FM.

Robert J. Sutherland

K1 @ 13:39,

Some people’s accidental double posting is greatly preferable to other people’s single one when the latter is just another boring rehash of the same old weary theme. Not mentioning any names, but you all know to whom (plural) I refer…

schrodingers cat

franky
“Climate catastrophe is imminent. Climate change could decimate pollinating species, leading to a world starved of fruit and vegetables. The best way to alert the world to that danger is to hold the next climate conference in Coatbridge, a town so short of fibre many residents can only shit successfully with the aid of a corkscrew.”

lol

Clapper57

@ Robert J Sutherland @ 1.56pm

Go on Robert…mention the name/s….save us all from paranoia Lol

Capella

Crikey! A scary picture of Her Majesty’s official “opposition”.

At least Jeremy won’t be filmed shopping in Hermes as Theresa May was yesterday. A handbag in there can cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.
But there are other temptations to sell your soul.
Prime Minister of Great Britain! Or not very great after BREXIT.

link to twitter.com

yesindyref2

The irony is that if Corbyn stood up with some courage, said “We’ll get a better deal or there’ll be no Brexit, THAT will be the choice”, and then had done the VONC, Labour would probably win a snap General Election.

As it is the guy is as weak as an over-stretched elastic gaiter. Boiing!

Colin Alexander

If Mr Corbyn and Labour are a waste of space, how does that reflect on SNP policy?

1. Wanting to do a deal with Corbyn over Brexit

And

2. The last two SNP GE Manifestos promising a progressive alliance with Labour at Westminster: first with Ed Miliband and then with Mr Corbyn and the Strong Voice For Scotland at Westminster which has just been proven to be a total falsehood, following the Continuity Bill ruling by the Supreme Court which ruled UK Parliament as all powerful and the Scot Parl as the colonial branch office, which means unelected gravy train troughers in the Lords were able to bin legislation made by our democratically elected MSPs at Holyrood.

So much for the SNP’s sooky sooky visit to that affront to democracy, the House of Lords, and meetings with Mr Corbyn.

To the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon: Please, please, please: Ditch the failed policies of UK appeasement.

Lead the fight for Scotland’s freedom and never give up.

Make the main policy of the SNP: Independence For Scotland.

Proud Cybernat

Alexander – you’re wasting your time. Your daily efforts to try and divide the YES movement will get you nowhere. Give it up. There’s no point. That is all.

Oh and Merry Christmas to you and all the guys n gals in the Brigade. Better luck next year.

Craig P

Nice cartoon Chris.

Though in my imagination, satan looks a bit more like Jacob Rees Mogg.

ronnie anderson

Great Toon Chris but hiv U run oota Blue fur the deep blue sea .

Bobp

Satan looking like john bull.

Republicofscotland

Nice one Chris.

Craig Murray has a good article on who hates us.

link to craigmurray.org.uk

Bobp

Schrodingers cat 1.57.pm. ‘Shit successfully with the aid of a corkscrew”. Thanks for that, i’ve just spilled half a glass of wine on our carpet laughing.

Robert J. Sutherland

Clapper57 @ 2:03,

On mature reflection, har, har, I realise that judgement might be somewhat in the eyes of the beholder. Cap fits and all that…

Still, I rather had in mind the poster who is assiduously busy on the thread currently, and his faux-revolutionary pal with the personal raincloud who comes on shift later.

Foonurt

Yurr leaky Colin, wahnts ah puull-through wae ah Noble Fir.

Maid_in_Scotland

Let’s not forget the ‘nice wee sweetener’ we Scots were offered by JMcD when he ventured north recently, the £70 billion subsidy/grant/gift/loan/bribe, whatever you care to call it, which is how Labour operates and always has. Even at Council level, Labour will promise all sorts of goodies which it might deliver but which will turn out to be expensive but actually cheap, tacky and often temporary, but sufficient to vote-catch, or will not deliver and hope no die-hard Labourite will notice. I’ve been around a very long time and have seen it all.

Yesterday when I made one of my rare forays into a News Channel, I heard some man who looked about 40 blethering that we used to be ‘Great’ Britain before we ‘went into Europe’! Seriously? I doubt he was even born in 1973 when we joined the then Common Market, but I can assure him there was nothing ‘great’ about Britain in the 1960’s/70’s. Bedevilled by endless industrial action, some justified, some definitely not, a country still looking war-torn and worn out, uncompetitive and clinging to old fashioned Victorian work practices, encouraged by the unions. The Western Europeans, the Japanese and the Americans on the other hand were constantly modernising and forging ahead competitively, and, yes, as a result their workers were actually prospering. I recall some Dutch friends of my parents being horrified at the very low level of UK state pension when my father retired away back in 1975.

Robert Peffers

@Scot Finlayson says: 22 December, 2018 at 11:14 am

” … the desire/lust for ermine has been in the snout of Brutish Labour politicians since the very beginning,
and the downtrodden keep getting suckered into voting them in.”

So true, Scot. Never forget that the father of the Labour Party, Kier Hardie began as a trade union leader, got into politics with the Scottish home rule Crofter’s Party then was sponsored to stand for a Westminster seat by the TU and Liberals.

Came a poor 5th in the election in Scotland and subsequently got elected, (if memory serves), first to an English constituency then to a constituency in Wales and we are still waiting for Labour to make actual Scottish Home Rule happen.

geeo

Coco having a meltdown again i see…oh dear, never mind, it will be pro indy coco again when the cystal meth wears off, and he thinks nobody noticed his SNP BAD rant.

What a wally !

Clapper57

Robert J Sutherland @ 3.07pm

Cheers point taken ….trust me I am aware that the “cap fits” and I don’t need you to tell me how shit my one trick posts on here are.

I am way beyond the point of caring as everything is just so so shit. What is the bloody point .

Robert J. Sutherland

Clapper57 @ 15:51,

Sorry, just to avoid any misunderstanding, I didn’t have you in mind at all. I have always found your posts worthy of attention, hence my previous response. So please keep on going, and be of good cheer…

=wide smile=

Gary45%

Ghillie@12.20
Brexit,= Scots meaning “Clusterbourach”
Nice one.

Ken500

Brexit will only bring on a recession. To make any difference Westminster Unionists would have to change their policies. Leaving the EU will just make things worse.

Labour trying to go in with the DUP. Reactionary non representative bastards. They try to ignore the SNP – progressive and representative. Labour are total hypocrites.

schrodingers cat

@Bobp

good innit, it is from franky boyles article in the guardian, i posted a link further up,

if you havent read it, do so, funniest thing ive seen in ages

schrodingers cat

jaykay royling in melt down on twitter, she just told the labour party and corbyn to do one.

she, and many like her are running out of options in scotland,

I am already seeing labour party members jumping ship to the snp because of jeremys article today.

yesindyref2

@Proud Cybernat
I hope they’re not 77th, I’d think they’d be way more competent. If they’re 77th the UK is in even more trouble that it is now. More Mundell’s little helpers I think, reflecting his level of incompetence, uselessness and absurdity. Wank amatuers, basically.

yesindyref2

@Clapper57
RJS didn’t mean you as he says. I’ve always thought you as sound as a bell.

yesindyref2

@cat
What article from Corbyn? Where?

Reluctant Nationalist

@ Robert Sutherland

You’d rather see a double post from a boss-eyed hyperventilating rhesus macaque than single posts from certain others?

Are you drunk?

Arthur Thomson

This cartoon sums up Corbyn exactly.

It pains me to see that there are still people on here who have good words to say for him.

He is the leader of a poisonous cabal of 70’s style chancers who think that this is their chance to turn the clock back.

To them the Scots are an irrelevance except in so far as they can be relied upon to be useful idiots.

schrodingers cat

Corbyn: Brexit would go ahead even if Labour won snap election

link to theguardian.com

this is why ian smart and jk rowling are up in arms

Dr Jim

I don’t get these folk at all who say they want Independence but they hate the SNP who are the only people capable of making that happen

We’ve got Colin the moaner every night doing it, Craig Murray’s linking the SNP with bad stuff in his writings, I just don’t get how these folk think Independence is going to happen if they keep dissing the SNP

Oh! I’ve worked it out now silly me

Proud Cybernat

@yesindyref2
“I hope they’re not 77th, I’d think they’d be way more competent.”

Ah but you see, I didn’t actually mention the 77th. I said the “Brigade” as in “Boys Brigade”. Apparently they have women too these days. 🙂

handclapping

I do hate it when he does these mirror portraits. All the greats do it, Rembrandt, Reubens et al but Cairns is better looking than this. Not much but enough! 😀

Oh and Merry Christmas to him too.

Craig Murray

Dr Jim at 4.42

“the SNP who are the only people capable of making that happen – but concentrating on keeping the entire UK together and in the EU, while making every possible excuse to put off Indyref2.” Fixed that for you.

If Nicola succeeds in getting the “People’s Vote” on the EU, and then succeeds in helping persuade the UK to stay in the EU, please explain to me precisely how that has moved us closer to Independence

Clapper57

@ Robert J Sutherland

Sorry….I read it wrong.

Everything that is happening in the world just now tends to make you feel more depressed and powerless which makes you even more sensitive and paranoiac to a comment that should have been seen as a joke but was mistakenly taken as a personal slight.

Totally my mistake….would not normally behave in such a bad tempered manner especially to someone like you….. but you caught me at a bad time.

No offence meant to you .

Have a good evening.

Reluctant Nationalist

As Nicola lasciviously wrapped her arm around my hunchback in a way no one had ever done before, I knew from this day forward I would jump to her defence like a jack russell on amphetamine – embarrassing but reliable. I was in love and nobody could ruin it for me.

Dr Jim

@Craig Murray

Instead of me explaining to you why don’t you explain how you propose moving Independence forward with whatever your plan is without the SNP or am I missing some other political party with that agenda in Scotland

Robert J. Sutherland

Reluctant Nationalist @ 16:39,

As it happens, that particular contributor was supportive of me when I was new on here and being attacked by a would-be bullying troll (happily now long gone). It was a kindness that I haven’t forgotten.

As I’ve got older and just a little wiser, I’ve begun to better appreciate the difference between the book and the cover. I happily recommend that understanding to you also.

Hamish100

CRAIG MURRAY

Simple

No peoples vote, no uk remaining in EU– First Minister knows that is the likely outcome– whats left? Independence for Scotland

Craig Murray

The SNP is a brilliant political party with an incredibly broad and talented membership. All it lacks is a leader again who actually believes in Independence, rather than being the darling of the UK Establishment with a very cosy berth within the devolution settlement.

Dr Jim

@Craig Murray 5.01pm

Do you not think that SNP members and many others might find statements like that pretty offensive while opponents of the SNP would find the same statements comforting

If it is the case that our broad and talented membership were that talented would they not as you seem to suggest pick another leader or are they as you suggest so talented they know they already have the one they want and it is you who have the problem with Nicola Sturgeon and not the broad and talented membership of the SNP

So my point stands, who else does the job if not the SNP

Robert J. Sutherland

Clapper57 @ 16:52,

Not to worry. It can be hard sometimes to get over nuance in cold print.

Yes, these are troubling times indeed, and we are all in need of encouragement. One consolation FWIW is that the increasing direness of the situation seems to be increasingly unlocking people from previous rigid positions and opening them to the advantages of independence that we already recognise. Dammit, maybe even
Jakey! =laugh=

I feel we are getting close to the tipping point now, and believe if we have the courage to act while everything is still to play for, we’ll garner more than enough support to win through.

So relax, enjoy this brief respite over the Christmas break, and be refreshed and ready for the New Year. It’s surely gonna be a wild ride!

Bobp

Schrodingers cat 4.19pm. Just finished reading frankie boyles bit in the guardian. Loved it, and his comment about it being nice for the Irish to watch a british famine.

yesindyref2

@Proud Cybernat
Ah, BB! All the same I think they’re way more competent as well 🙂

wull2

I treat everybody as a sleeper, a plant or just a idiot (our media), only time will tell who they are, I can only say it is not me.
Vote YES

One_Scot

Lol, anyone who thinks that Nicola does not have Independence running through her veins or does not know exactly what she is doing, has not been paying attention.

yesindyref2

@Craig Murray “All it lacks is a leader again who actually believes in Independence

Craig, I think you do your own thing, and that’s good.

But you must be stark staring bonkers if you don’t think bot the SNP and Scotland have got absolutely the best possible leader going, bar none.

And as for her “actually believes in Independent”, good grief. You need to stop reading articles, blogs, postings by Unionists. You’re starting to talk like they do 🙁

Socrates MacSporran

I generally agree with Craig Murray; he is not often wrong.

But, if he is suggesting there is some reason, other than exhausting all avenues of co-operation in attempting to secure a less-damaging Brexit, for the SNP’s delay in calling Indyref2. I will disagree with him.

When the FM calls it, she will immediately be inundated with all kinds of personal abuse from the Unionists and their media shrills. I dare say, the good Colonel will, if necesssary, be brought back early from maternity leave, to parrot her call of: “All they care about is Independence,” and to insist the Unionists will boycott the referendum.

However, the FM will easily counter this with the evidence of how she tried absolutely everything to soften the Brexit blow, but, every time she tried to do this, she was either ignored of rebuffed. By doing this, she has, reagardless of media spin and lies, taken that argument out of the equation.

The Unionists will this time, from a much weaker base, need to demonstrate that we are Better Together – or, as I call this approach: Mission Impossible.

Graeme

There’s a picture on Jamie MacAlbas twitter of Jim Murphy & Ross thomson all pally & chummy 2 cheeks of the same arse,

now I know not all idiots look like idiots but my god Ross Thomson is the full package that face has idiot written all over it

Proud Cybernat

Sorry Craig Murray. I think the FM knows exactly what she needs before firing IR2 start gun. It’s not (quite) in place yet so she keeps her cards (rightly) close to her chest. But I really don’t think it will be too long to go by the simple virtue that Theresa May is herself running out of time for anything else other than a really sore arse Brexit to happen.

Meanwhile, like the evil, vile ScotNats that we are, we present on SocMed all manner of scenarios that would be said trigger and how the FM might proceed to recover our Statehood. Keeps the BritNat buggers guessing.

Proud Cybernat

**Meanwhile, like the evil, vile ScotNats that we are, we present on SocMed all manner of scenarios that could trigger IR2 and how the FM might proceed to recover our Statehood. Keeps the BritNat buggers guessing.**

Colin Alexander

@ Dr Jim

We’ll never get independence if the SNP or others never stand for independence.

Dr Jim

@Colin Alexander 5.52pm

Who are these others of whom you speak?

yesindyref2

It’s always possible Craig Murray’s playing Devil’s Advocate, in which case he just caught out one of satan’s little helpers.

Colin Alexander

@ Craig Murray

You have my utmost respect for speaking out and telling the truth.

Would you consider leading a YES political party with one policy only:

Independence for Scotland, if the SNP won’t.

I would vote for you. I’m sure others would too. Leave the SNP to run the colonial Scottish Govt on behalf of the UK Govt,if they won’t try again for independence.

Colin Alexander

@ Dr Jim

The mandate is for the Scottish Parliament to hold an indyref, not the FM.

A Green MSP could raise an SP motion for indyref2 instead of just moaning about the SNP not having done so.

Arthur Thomson

Nicola Sturgeon has played a binder in representing Scotland and the independence movement.

She and her team exude the level of intelligence, maturity, dignity and responsibility that properly reflects our Scottish nation of genuinely civilised people.

I have no doubt that she and her team are politically astute and have their eye clearly focused on the task of re-establishing Scotland’s independence.

Like everyone else, it upsets me to see the the level to which the Brits are prepared to stoop to maintain their control. However, emulating their despicable lack of regard for others is not a path for civilised people to follow. We will win and simultaneously maintain our Scottish values.

North chiel

“ on the money” Proud cybernat @ 0548 pm . In our wonderful FM we place our trust. Head & shoulders above any other “ so called” politician in the “ so called” U.K. Patience is a virtue and I am so impressed with her “ endless patience” as she rightly waits until everything is in place and Brexit is certain. ( the mandate for the sovereign people of Scotland’s decision will be enacted, as promised, by whatever method(s) is required) . The Scottish people and our legal representatives will decide . Our FM most certainly will never let her country down .

Republicofscotland

Craig Murray 5.02pm

Agreed Craig, Sturgeon should forget trying to shore up a people’s vote and concentrate on independence.

One_Scot

Lol, some people on here don’t half talk some shit. You know who you are. What, you think we can’t see you.

yesindyref2

The usual suspects.

yesindyref2

Ehh I didn’t mean you Dr Jim!

Capella

Nicola Sturgeon is a brilliant leader of the SNP and has been remarkably sure footed throughout the chaos that has engulfed the UK.

In spite of the constant hostility of the MSM, people do trust her and her colleagues to deliver independence as soon as is practical. This is a tremendous achievement after 11 years in office and the 2014 referendum.

SNP policy is influenced mostly by the members. No doubt the leadership emphasise some policies over others for reasons which may not always be apparent to the rest of us. But unless you are prepared to make it your life’s work, you have to allow the professional politicians to provide the leadership.

We have to trust somebody. The SNP would be mad to choose another leader now.

Ghillie

Gary45% @ 4.09 pm

Bexit,= Scots meaning ‘Clusterbourach’ 🙂

I think it was either Dr Philippa Whitford MP or Joanna Cherry QC MP who gave us our lovely new word =)

Lenny Hartley

Craig Murray, did Torrance tell you to write that about the FM? Lets think somebody who has supported and worked their socks off for Indy since they were a teenager of somebody who was at the heart of the British Establishment shortly after leaving University and them when sacked came out for Independence!
I know who I trust the most, and as someone who has read some of your books and had some admiration for you It pains me to say that you are so far off the mark that I now suspect you have an ulterior motive.

Hamish100

REPUBLICOF SCOTLAND

Once knew a socialist republican /similar. Over time he recognised he couldn’t get voted in as a councillor. He got a suit tidied up his beard said the right labour type things and joined the labour party. Within a few years his troops out of ulster utterances became more Blairite and he got elected as a councillor in a big city in the West of Scotland.

As for Scotland he couldnae care one jot.

yesindyref2

@Lenny
I think perhaps he’s just too immersed in conspiracy theories.

Cubby

In over 300 years of this despicable union only one party has brought us very close to independence – yes the SNP. No other party or person has come even close. Lay off the SNP. GET A GRIP.

I say that and I am not a member. It’s just common sense.

Britnats like Colinshit are just trying the old British empire trick of divide and conquer. I have nothing but contempt for these Britnats who post on Wings. They are scum.

Merry Xmas to all ( but not the scum).

frogesque

Risking hammers but:

If

Rudyard Kipling.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46473/if—

Some folk need to step back, take chill pill and look at the moon instead of howling at it

schrodingers cat

@Craig Murray

nicola is proposing the most popular solution to brexit with the people of scotland, she is safe to do so since sm/cu membership will never be agreed by treeza or corbyn. neither will they agree to stop brexit or a PV

it may hack of many of the 45% who are itching for indyref2, but her stance appeals to many of the 55% and it is winning us converts, a trickle at the moment but i believe we are reaching tipping point and we will see many cross the floor

the reason we need to do this is because we are still sitting at 45-47%

if we we had 60-70% support for yes during the last 2 years we would have been having very different conversations on wos

as we move forward, with whatever tactic nicola decides to pursue, if she has a clear majority for yes in the polls of 60/70%, it will make her job a lot easier.

her support for the PV and sm/cu will deliver neither. but it will deliver the 60/70% we need to win indyref2

Ghillie

Capella @ 6.36 pm and Dr Jim, Schrodiner’s cat, Proud Cybernat, Yesindyref2, One_Scot, Arthur Thomson, North chiel, and other Wingers I may have missed,

Yes =)

Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister who will lead Scotland to Independence and soon 🙂

CM is drawing out the trolls. Like a poultice.

Breeks


Dr Jim says:
22 December, 2018 at 4:58 pm
@Craig Murray

Instead of me explaining to you why don’t you explain how you propose moving Independence forward with whatever your plan is without the SNP or am I missing some other political party with that agenda in Scotland.

The 6 Parliamentarians who took a case to the ECJ, repulsing an intervention from the UK’s Supreme Court along the way, established that Article 50 could be withdrawn by the sovereign entity which lodged it were a cross party group who pursued a matter of legal principle.

They Established Article 50 was a sovereign prerogative, which creates a benchmark against which UK Parliamentary Sovereignty can be Tested against Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty and the Claim of Right to establish whether Theresa May’s Article 50 was Ultra Viraes and contrary to Scotland’s Constitutional will, and/or whether Scotland could cite its Constitutional Sovereignty and the 2016 democratic majority to Remain in the EU as justifiable grounds for Scotland to unilaterally revoke Article 50 insofar as it related to Scotland.

Such action is mandated by Scotland’s Sovereign Remain majority, irrespective of whoever it is might cite that mandate in the European Court.

It need not be a SNP sponsored venture. Scotland would only need its own Gina Millar type of courageous enabler. However, it begs two mighty important questions about the SNP, firstly why they are (so far) resisting all pressures to stand up for Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty, and why aren’t they sponsoring a whole salvo of legal challenges from the same stable as the Article 50 Test Case designed to ring fence Scotland’s sovereignty as a Scottish Backstop for Brexit, and establish Scotland’s Government as a sovereign interlocutor with Legal Personality which can begin parallel negations and consultations with Europe about Scotland’s options. Why are having to drag the SNP kicking and screaming to do this??? They should be up front leading the damn charge!

Brexit threw down a Constitutional gauntlet about “UK” Parliamentary Sovereignty, and so far NOBODY, nobody that is except the 6 Scottish parliamentarians, have picked up the gauntlet and made ANY case at all for defending Scotland’s sovereignty. Forget fkn devolved niceties and quarrels over a UK Continuity Bill. Nail our colours to Sovereignty and TELL Westminster they’re not get our powers because they are staying where they belong in Europe. If you’re worried about devolution, guess what, you’ve already rolled over and conceded sovereignty.

Rather than condemning the frustrations of increasingly exasperated Independence Supporters both outside and inside the SNP, why not at least make the attempt to address these frustrations and acutely relevant concerns with something more substantial than a character reference about how great a politician Nicola Sturgeon is. Don’t tell me. Show me.

You might very well believe that Nicola has constructed an intricate spiders web of Constitutional trip wires and bear traps which Westminster cannot possibly negotiate, I surely hope you’re right, but there are less than 100 days to extricate Scotland from this diabolical catastrophe of Brexit, and in those 100 days, at the very, very, minimum, we NEED to secure legal personality just so we can bloody talk to Europe and formalise our options.

Why on Earth we are wasting time on a people’s vote which might conceivably put at risk Scotland’s democratic Remain majority of 2016 is completely beyond me. But hey, go ahead, and devote your surplus energies to this questionable undertaking if you must. But please, for the love of Scotland, you MUST get these Constitutional barbs and test cases heading to the ECJ to disrupt the progress of Brexit before all hope is lost for keeping Scotland in Europe and repulsing the attempted colonial subjugation of Scotland by an Ultra Viraes Westminster regime.

That’s how I would “move Independence forward” Dr Jim.

Revoke Article 50 as an act of National self defence that is lawful, it’s mandated, it’s democratic, it’s constitutional, and our country is greatly imperilled if we simply stand by mute and inactive, and allow Brexit to happen.

There are 97 days. 97 DAYS.

Shitting yourself? Godammed right I’m shitting myself. There’s a big express train barrelling towards us and we’re having a picnic on the track eating cucumber sandwiches and wondering if there will be a war with Hitler, a second EU referendum.

You want more details? You want certainty? Get our Constitutional Sovereignty house in order, and we can all say with certainty that Scotland will remain in Europe.

The time for talking has run out. Don’t sit here second guessing whether Corbyn is complicit with a Hard Brexit happening, because I hate to point out such a pitfall in strategy but the SNP’s enigmatic lack of initiative is hardly safe from some painfully similar accusations itself.

robertknight

The big bloke in Chris’s cartoon will be wearing a ski jacket before there’s another referendum in Scotland!

WM will never allow it, and even if Holyrood hold one, albeit ‘consultative’ , it’ll be boycotted by Yoon run local authorities and their BritNat supporters.

And who’s going to stump up the millions for any Yes campaign – the Weirs, again??? Plenty of fat-cats on the ‘other side’ with deep pockets.

I can’t help but think the Yes movement is being extremely naive to:

a) Think that IndyRef2 will happen

b) Think that, even if it did, any result other than No/Remain would be respected

c) Allow the Yoons to persist in using IndyRef2 as both a stick to beat the Yes movement and a smoke screen to obscure the broader debate about Independence

Let’s face it…

IndyRef2 has about as likely as a Brexit Peoples’ Vote!

Québec made a huge mistake with their IndyRef2 and where now the prospect of an independent Québec?

Furthermore, if anyone thinks that WM won’t behave like Madrid then history and current events has taught you nothing.

The Yes movement/SNP must find an alternative path to Independence – IndyRef2 is a corner in which we must avoid being painted in to.

Dr Jim

@Colin Alexander

The Greens? You do enjoy having a laugh eh

Y’see every time people like you and these *others* whoever they are run down or speak ill of the FM you do the whole of the SNP and the YES movement a disservice but you know that and just like Craig Murray that’s why you do it

If as Craig Murray suggests but didn’t choose to answer, the SNP are a broad and talented political party why then do they keep the FM in post and if the SNP are such a broad and talented party they did not choose Craig Murray as a candidate for the SNP

So on the one hand you and these others say the SNP are just fine and dandy and clever and talented but on the other hand they’re not smart enough to know that the FM isn’t a good enough a leader, I mean really which is it or could it possibly be that you and these *others* have your own problems with a woman leader or possibly you might have not been chosen by her to be a part of the talented and broad SNP making some of these *others* feel inadequate in some way so much so as to hold a wee personal grudge and you can’t stop yourselves scribbling crap about a female politician of 30 years experience who could have any job she chose but chooses FM of Scotland on less money than she could earn anywhere else should she choose to do so

There are mugs out there who will fall for this drivel either because they just don’t get enough truth to know the difference or just because they want to, and I know you see it as your wee mission in life to serve in the capacity of the *down with Sturgeon* brigade but here on WOS it won’t work and now in the wider debate just like Theresa May and Corbyn your deceptions are being seen through more and more and in the end you and these *others* are being seen as more ridiculous by the day

There’s no need to answer me because I’ve taken up enough of my time bothering with you and your *others* you have nothing to sell here and no one to sell it to so do yourself and the others on WOS a favour and go away and project your thoughts at folk who care because nobody on here does, you’re not even reaching the level of irritation now and that’s not serving your prime function at all

Iain

Achieving Scottish independence is the goal of over half the population of Scotland.
We have to trust Nicola.
So far she has been a dazzling first minister and fully justifies the faith of the Scottish people have in her.
The independence movement for Scotland will succeed because no matter what the setback we will never give up.
Brexit is the latest chance for freedom for Scotland but what ever happens we are never ever going to give up.
I sense that our freedom is close as the britnat empire is crumbling and recession and widespread poverty is going to hit the empire hard.
Either way brexit or remain England will be torn apart with rioting. We are better than that we must seize our chance and leave this dreadful union.

Dr Jim

@Breeks

Then do it Breeks go for your life why not, it only took the SNP 80 years to get where they are so I’ll look forward with great interest to seeing the queue form up behind anyone who’s going forward with whatever idea this is or are we having another *others* moment

Liz g

Craig Murray
I thought it was a very good “political “ move for Nicola to get behind a people’s vote.
Holding one puts all the Unionist parties in a very awkward campaign position.
Especially Ruth Davison and Corbin.
It’s a way to potentially deal with them before the Indy vote
The stand they take and the things they say will not go down well in Scotland no matter how they spin it, they will have no credibility, and may not even survive as leaders.
They are in a lose lose situation at no cost to the Indy movement or campaign.

Even a vote to Remain in the EU will do massive damage and destabilise UK politics.
And to destabilise the opposition as much as you can before fighting your own campaign, is , I think, good tactics!
I’m surprised that you cannot see that Craig?
Remember the mandate also says “when Scotland has had enough “ we should have another Indyref!!

Best outcome would be, the UK still in the EU, but Westminster collapsing and rudderless.
Our campaign then becomes…. we’ve had enough of Westminster rule and not about Brexit!
On the other hand…. If Brexit still happens will still be on course for Indy Ref two anyway.
There is as far as I can see no downside to Nicolas support for a “people’s vote” for us.
Those who assert that it, “negates the mandate”… don’t , I would say actually understand the mandate….

twathater

OT somewhat @ LEGERWOOD on the previous thread , Thanks for the link to THOUGHT CONTROL SCOTLAND John Robertson , I would ask any winger who is feeling a bit dreich or doubting to take a look at prof Robertson’s blog he explainerises what may be happening with the divide and conquer methodology so beloved of our imperial maisters.

Please independenistas get this blog spread far and wide to bring us all together again and stop the spooks and establishment from causing any fractures , we have to stand firm and united

twathater

A very HAPPY CHRISTMAS and a prosperous and healthy festive season to all supporters of Scotland’s independence

Robert T

Dr Jim

Alex Salmond made a mistake which everybody is sorry for including him
Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t want to make a mistake because there’s only going to be one shot and if we miss it’s the end of Scotland there’ll be no third go, we will be reduced to less than a region forever and Tories and Labour and Lib Dems will make sure of it then you’ll see the Ulsterisation of Scotland and don’t think for one nano second those people are not there, they are, in numbers, and no moderate wants that day to come even though the UK government would love it, life would be a lot easier for them if they had some violence to react to

No constitutional questions then

Everybody’s in a hurry, I’m in a hurry but I’m not the FM so I don’t know anything, she does, the time to complain is when a politician doesn’t do what they say not when you think they’re not thinking what you’re thinking

Especially when you don’t have all the information to think about

I’m not here to argue with folk because there’s no point, nobody wins an online argument about other peoples points of view because the real people with the real information don’t carry out real politics in the public gaze

The internet is a moaning forum or a comedic excercise but what it’s most certainly not is a method of resolution it’s a stabbercise of words symbolising nothing but a get it off your chest airing

Meaningless smoke

doug_bryce

Aye : Nicola backing peoples vote is a good idea.

Because we all know Ruthie hates brexit, but needs to toe the party line (which is no peoples vote cause it will destroy tory party)

yesindyref2

Basically speaking, the People’s Vote is splitting the Tories and Labour from arse to tit elbow.

Breeks


Dr Jim says:
22 December, 2018 at 7:26 pm
@Breeks

Then do it Breeks go for your life why not, it only took the SNP 80 years to get where they are…

You posed the question Dr Jim. I simply gave you an answer.

K1

Don’t worry about RN, Robert J, he just needed to get me back for yesterday’s comment.

Funnily enough all on the back of him claiming that 2017 ge loss of SNP MP’s was down to ‘immigration’, absolutely full on lying piece of skull numbing pish of course, but he couldn’t come back and admit he was completely wrong on that front and resorted to childish rhetoric, which he thinks is ‘clever’ and ‘witty’…the reality being he’s such a a god awful tit who just resorted to attempting to gain support from you in attacking me ‘personally’…because he’s nothing to say on the back of making a cunt of himself on here.

🙂

Have a lovely xmas Robert.

Rock

Like Nicola, Jeremy will strike at the right moment – in 2640 AD.

Jeremy will call a Vote of No Confidence and Nicola will call Independence Referendum 2.

Nicola and Jeremy, waiting to strike when the iron is hot.

Rock (27th August 2017 – “Underneath the Goodyear blimp”):

“Scotland was on the verge of independence immediately after the Brexit vote.

The unionist parties were without leaders and completely lost, the SNP had 56 out of 59 MPs and 50% of the vote, the EU’s eyes were (favourably) on Scotland.

But Nicola squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

The result: Nicola outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Corbyn on the other, fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%.

It is my prediction that there will be a “snap” Brexit and the SNP will be caught napping and unable to hold a second independence referendum.

Or another “snap” Westminster election with the SNP again losing support.

Despite the pretendy “sovereignty” and boasting of the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here, Scotland is again as far away from independence as ever.

If they succeed in neutralising the Rev. Stuart Campbell and WOS, independence will be “stone dead” for at least 620 years.”

Rock

Nicola and Jeremy, Saint Theresa’s Little Helpers.

Rock (8th December – “The Stoned Roses”):

“It was the ultimate in stupidity and gutlessness for Nicola to stand “shoulder to shoulder” with “Tory scum” Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

She had no reason to open her mouth – she should have dismissed it as a reserved matter. That would have shut up the unionists. Instead she is now hostage to what she said.

Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

yesindyref2

Ohmigud the village idiot bore has arrived.

cynicalHighlander

Rock says:
22 December, 2018 at 8:39 pm

Like Nicola, Jeremy will strike at the right moment – in 2640 AD.

Jeremy will call a Vote of No Confidence and Nicola will call Independence Referendum 2.

Both trying to outdo Methuselah!

Rock

Colin Alexander says:
22 December, 2018 at 12:57 pm

“Then to add to Rock’s gloating:”

Scotland waiting for independence until 2640 AD because Establishment lawyer Nicola was too busy flogging a dead horse is no gloating matter for me.

mike cassidy

In case you haven’t heard it.

Joanna Cherry wishing Rees Mogg the season’s best!

link to twitter.com

He’ll be hoping the wee reesmoggs have clubbed together for an extra-underwear present this year.

Dave McEwan Hill

robertknight at 7.19

Do love these dogmatic “experts” laying down the law and the facts about somethings they don’t even know they don’t know anything about.

mike cassidy

2640 extra pairs of pants.

To be precise

Rock

Arthur Thomson says:
22 December, 2018 at 4:42 pm

“It pains me to see that there are still people on here who have good words to say for him.”

There are people on here who have good words to say about Dugdale.

Corbyn is a saint compared to Dugdale.

Rock

Dr Jim says:
22 December, 2018 at 7:48 pm

“Alex Salmond made a mistake which everybody is sorry for including him”

That is the biggest FAKE NEWS of the year.

Colin Alexander

It was Alex Salmond that led the SNP to Indyref. So near and yet so far.

Nicola Sturgeon, very competent speaker and seems a nice person, I’m sure most would agree. But what political successes? What exactly has she achieved as leader?

Shafted at the Smith Commission and EVEL.

Off the back of 2014 indyref and Smith Commission, 56 out of 59 MPs. One huge success. Credit where it’s due. And did what with them? Nothing. MPs admitting they rarely hear from the FM and it’s like two parties: Holyrood and WM. MPs involved in carpetbagging scandals etc.

Nicola spouted off about indyref and when ignored by T. May appeared to lose her bottle and failed to fight election campaigns, relying only on the name of the SNP; entitlement politics.

As a result lost nearly half the MPs in 2017 including some of their biggest hitters; could have lost almost all.

Failed to gain a single council at the council elections. Both campaigns with no inspirational policies.

The SNP’s record in elections with Nicola Sturgeon as leader has been mediocre to say the least.

As for the SNP running the show regarding the anti-Brexit movement. Get real. The SNP barely register. Anti-Brexit only matters because there are a fair number of Tory and Labour politicians and celebrities that are pro-EU. The SNP, like the LibDems and UK Greens are just window dressing.

Biggest mistake: trying to do things the Westminster way, like Keir Hardie and Labour. Assimilated.
Becoming part of the UK Establishment they were supposed to destroy.

Rock

One_Scot says:
22 December, 2018 at 5:25 pm

“Lol, anyone who thinks that Nicola does not have Independence running through her veins or does not know exactly what she is doing, has not been paying attention.”

Proud Cybernat says:
22 December, 2018 at 5:48 pm

“Sorry Craig Murray. I think the FM knows exactly what she needs before firing IR2 start gun.”

Arthur Thomson says:
22 December, 2018 at 6:14 pm

“Nicola Sturgeon has played a binder in representing Scotland and the independence movement.”

Capella says:
22 December, 2018 at 6:36 pm

“Nicola Sturgeon is a brilliant leader of the SNP and has been remarkably sure footed throughout the chaos that has engulfed the UK.”

Liz g says:
22 December, 2018 at 7:30 pm

“Craig Murray
I thought it was a very good “political “ move for Nicola to get behind a people’s vote.”

If blind faith in religion is bad, blind faith in politicians is worse.

No politician in Scotland has ever blown it as big time as Nicola did.

Does a single poster here have the guts to predict when the next referendum will be held, this side of 2640 AD?

For the record, in my humble opinion, Craig Murray is a typical Liberal Democrat opportunist who was bosom pals at the height of the independence referendum campaign with the Right (Dis)Honourable Alistair Carmichael, MP.

Rock (13th December 2017 – “From the archives #2”):

“I do not for one moment doubt Nicola’s commitment to Scottish independence. I only wished she had not trained as a lawyer.”

Craig Murray

Lenny Hartley @ 6.40pm

I don’t have an ulterior motive. Many people here saw me with their own eyes during the 2014 Indyref where I ran myself into the ground campaigning, even when quite nastily ill, and made many more campaign speeches than quite a few MP’s/MSP’s. I had been nominated in 13 constituencies before the SNP hierarchy banned me as a candidate. there was a reason so many people nominated me. And if we get another campaign you will see it again.

I sincerely hope I am completely wrong about Nicola. If she calls the Indyref next year I shall be absolutely delighted to be proven to be a stupid arse.

But I think it is more likely in 3 years time nothing will have happened, everyone will be praising Nicola’s latest tactical excuse for not going for Indy just as enthusiastically as you all are in this thread, and you will be explaining to me why 2019 wasn’t really an opportunity at all.

Time will tell. Let’s not fall out in the meantime.

geeo

Coco been using the Jackie Baillie calculator again…

……
“As a result lost nearly half the MPs in 2017”
……

35 is also, by your thinking, also nearly half of 56 is it ?

Oh dear, coco, you are utterly tragic.

Must try harder, kiddo.

cynicalHighlander

Corbyn is a saint compared to Dugdale.

Both are lying hypocrites.

Never mind -2 + 6 – 4 = 0

Rock

doug_bryce says:
22 December, 2018 at 7:52 pm

“Aye : Nicola backing peoples vote is a good idea.”

If Scotland only narrowly wins independence in 2640 AD, there will be a “peoples vote” a couple of years later which might reverse the result.

Don’t say you weren’t warned folks.

Those calling or supporting a “peoples vote” are the enemies of democracy.

Elizabeth Stanley

I gave you a prediction Rock.

Go look for it.

Rock

Colin Alexander says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:08 pm

“Biggest mistake: trying to do things the Westminster way, like Keir Hardie and Labour. Assimilated.
Becoming part of the UK Establishment they were supposed to destroy.”

Rock (25th January – “By hook or by Cook”):

“The British Establishment makes sure that anyone who goes to Westminster gets corrupted.

56 SNP MPs achieved as much for Scotland as 6 would have: ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I would prefer that all of them are called back or lose their seats before they have been bought off.”

geeo

@Craig Murray.

It must be a full time job being such a sanctimonious and presumptious bore.

Nominated and knocked back 13 times huh ?

Ever even considered for a second, that maybe the ‘SNP Heirachy’ see a character flaw in you, that you are in clear denial about ?

Probably not, as in a world of opinion, you see your opinion as the only fact.

Only the Rock and Coco elevate their inane ramblings above all else on here, we laugh at them in these parts.

You are in danger of putting yourself in exalted company.

Not a good look.

Craig Murray

geeo

I don’t know if you don’t understand the process or are just being deliberately nasty.
I was nominated in 13 constituencies, before the 2015 election. I was knocked back once, by the party hierarchy. The 2015 election followed the 2014 referendum so quickly that many including me were still going through the party candidate approval process while the constituencies were selecting. I was not “knocked back” in any constituency, I was refused central approval as a candidate.

Rock

Elizabeth Stanley says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:22 pm

“I gave you a prediction Rock.

Go look for it.”

No you didn’t:

Elizabeth Stanley (5th December – “In different times”):

“Rock,I have guts.

I’ll make a prediction. You seem very keen on predictions.

Call for Scottish inderef in March 2019.
Vote in June 2019.”

Rock (5th December – “In different times”):

“That is not a prediction – it is your view.

Do you think Nicola will call a referendum for June 2019?”

Dr Jim

The arseholes can’t help themselves because they’ve got NUTHIN so the full on we hate comes spitting out because they’re found out to be charlatons and mixers with only one agenda, HATE

Tory Labour losers just doing their job of sewing hatred full of the FM should do this the FM should do that, the SNP are rubbish, the best though is when they start the mind reading trick to tell us all what the FM is thinking God almighty on a stick these folk are so stupid they use the same tactics they use on their own supporters to get them to vote for them then bring those tactics to WOS to thick to realise everybody on WOS doesn’t vote for these parties because they see through what they are

I see the same Trolls day after day following the FM practically gasping for air to try and find nasty things to say in the hope of putting off SNP voters

Don’t you people know by now it won’t work, and you know why because previous generations died very young and didn’t have the facility the internet allows for us old codgers who now live longer to tell younger folk the truth and history about their beloved Labour party and their adored Tories

And you know what people like me intend to live a long time yet and we’ll keep right on reminding them of the crimes of these parties, so you’re ontae plums as they say as well as the media types who prop you up, us oldies have been aware of them for Yonks we know who they are and we’ll keep right on keeping on and there’s nuthin numpties like you people can do to stop us

Now I’m off to have a happy Christmas with my kids and grandkids who are all SNP members, see we’re in the schools and everything….maddening isn’t it knowing that the era of Labour in Scotland is over for good for at least the next 30 years and it’s all down to old grandads and grandmoms like me because our kids know we wouldn’t lie to them because we know, we were there, we saw it, we lived it

Elizabeth Stanley

How sad can you get Rock?

But you did go & find my prediction/view on my request.

Sit!

Rock

robertknight says:
22 December, 2018 at 7:19 pm

“Québec made a huge mistake with their IndyRef2 and where now the prospect of an independent Québec?”

Establishment lawyer Nicola is playing it very safely by delaying the next independence referendum to 2640 AD.

But I am a bit afraid that if there is only a narrow Yes win, there will be a “peoples vote” in 2642 AD which might reverse the YES result in 2640 AD.

Rock

Elizabeth Stanley says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:41 pm

“How sad can you get Rock?”

For the second time you have failed to answer and I predict you will be back again a third time claiming that you had answered.

Are you related to Nick Robinson of the BBC by any chance Elizabeth?

ScottieDog

I’m glad I’m no political strategist but I’m quite comfortable with what the SNP are doing so far. There is much more absurdity to come before the SNP play their final card. They are doing themselves no harm just now. Had we a fair media, I believe their actions would put YESon 60%.

Ive been in disagreement with SNP over a fair few things but this isn’t one of them.

The U.K. establishment parties need to firmly nail their colours to the mast (and that IS starting to happen) before puts its cards in the table.

Rock

Elizabeth Stanley says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:41 pm

“How sad can you get Rock?

But you did go & find my prediction/view on my request.

Sit!”

Typical English colonial attitude, Elizabeth, considereing everyone else to be dogs.

Elizabeth Stanley

Excellent Rock.

Go fetch your shameful ball. Good boy!

mike cassidy

Tag team trolling.

Mick McManus and Jackie Pallo

2640 victories in a row.

And every one a fake!

Dr Jim

That’s me for the off

May all the good people on WOS and you Rev Stu have a peaceful and happy Christmas

For the clowns, not so much!

yesindyref2

@Craig Murray: “But I think it is more likely in 3 years time nothing will have happened, everyone will be praising Nicola’s latest tactical excuse for not going for Indy just as enthusiastically as you all are in this thread

Craig, seriously, stop making wrong assumptions. NOBODY in this thread has said anything remotely like that, no genuine person anyway, just the trolls.

Phronesis

Scotland’s independent future will be built on a sure foundation of a small country making its own way in a globalised world, outward facing and inclusive of all who want to make their homes in Scotland.As the old WM political system completely breaks- archaic, retrogressive,unable to adapt we should not mourn its passing.
WM is failing its citizens with the over-elevation of those in power- vacuous and nebulous individuals who value economy and profit above anything else. Democracy has been traduced to a barrage of misinformation bought and paid for by dark money as the UK hurtles towards its final destination- rUK.
A fitting end to the empire. Scotland will be a new model of democracy, with core humanitarian values and socially just- exactly what the world needs. It is the necessary seismic shock to heal the British psyche.

‘Things fall apart when empires crumble. This time, we think, things will be different. They are not. This time, we are told, we will become great again. We will not…the vote to leave the EU was the last gasp of the old empire working its way out of the British psyche. Fuelled by a misplaced nostalgia, the result was driven by a lack of knowledge of Britain’s imperial history, by a profound anxiety about Britain’s status today, and by a deeply unrealistic vision of our future…jingoistic ignorance of the past’

link to dannydorling.org

Colin Alexander

@yesindyref2

Back to trolls are we? Should it no be elves and Santa Claus for Christmas?

Only the true believers and the heretics eh? I’m as sovereign as you. Craig Murray is as sovereign as you. Breeks is as sovereign as you.

We are all as sovereign as Nicola Sturgeon. She is not our ruler. UK Parliament is. The UK Supreme Court said so.

We are all entitled to our opinions. You and others are happy with the SNP; we aren’t.

If YES were called; we’re all gonnae be on the same side, singing from the same hymn sheet. Till then we should be free to discuss it like adults without stupid name calling.

schrodingers cat

craig murray was a solid campaigner during indyref1,

he lives in my constituency, nefife. I take issue with anyone who doubts his commitment to indy. He is a passionate and engaging speaker and coming from a libdem background is a bonus in this constituency. not everyone in our movement is a life long snp supporter, indeed, such activists are the minority. I welcome converts from all parties, without which the snp would still be a minority concern.

I understand his, and many others, frustration that we havent kick started indyref2 campaign again. but disagreements on the exact timing were always going to happen. I just have faith in the snp. why wouldnt I? have you seen the quality of our MPs and MSPs?

what what it is worth Craig, I agreed with the snp decition not to let you stand. to be a snp politician you have to be extremely squeeky clean. Even then, this wont necessarily protect you from the msm. ask michelle thompson. there is one rule for unionists and one rule for us.

more importantly craig, I think you, like stu campbell, are of more service to us as bloggers than as politicians. being outside the snp allows you a freedom to speak that you couldnt have within the snp and especially if you were an elected rep. had you been chosen and elected, the first time you said something controvertial in your blog, the msm would make a bee line to nicolas door demanding you were thrown out, #snpbad etc

Indyref2 will happen in 2019. have faith

Hamish100

Alexander – how do propose Independence with just your rock and one or two other wayward souls.

Aint gonny happen is it sonny?

People are sovereign. everyone is sovereign , uk parliament is sovereign– eh? confusing yourself there old chum

sassenach

The increased frequency of the Coco/Rock outpourings tonight definitely tell us their bowels are starting to rumble and squeak.

Wonderful!!

Cubby

Rockshit = Colinshit = Britshit.

The Britnats are stinking the place out with their Britnat crap. There has been a massive dump of Britnat crap this evening. Best to hold your nose and pass on by.

yesindyref2

@cat
Exactly. Craig Murray is a maverick, could anyone imagine him toeing a party line, at all?

Indy needs mavericks. Else we’d have to invent them.

Rock

Elizabeth Stanley says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:41 pm

“How sad can you get Rock?

But you did go & find my prediction/view on my request.

Sit!”

Rock says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:48 pm

“Typical English colonial attitude, Elizabeth, considereing everyone else to be dogs.”

Elizabeth Stanley says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:53 pm

“Excellent Rock.

Go fetch your shameful ball. Good boy!”

I will quote this exchange when you come back to dupe the more gullible independence supporters, Your Imperial Highness Elizabeth.

Rock (9th December – “The Stoned Roses”):

“I make no demands, but I know you wouldn’t dare answer because you are a pretendy “independence supporter” who pops up to dupe gullible independence supporters whenever the question of the right for English settlers in Scotland to vote in an independence referendum on Scottish independence from England comes up.”

schrodingers cat

yesindyref2 says:
22 December, 2018 at 10:26 pm
@cat
Exactly. Craig Murray is a maverick, could anyone imagine him toeing a party line, at all?

Indy needs mavericks. Else we’d have to invent them.
————–

lol, exactly what I said, except i needed a whole page 🙂

Capella

@ Craig Murray – I enjoy reading your blog and make a small contribution to help keep it alive. I was disappointed that you were not selected as a candidate for the SNP.

There will be another election along soon IMO. The SNP will run on an Independence manifesto IMO. That would be a good time for all good men to come to the aid of the party.

Meantime I agree that we must resist attempts to divide and rule. You have a great deal of valuable insight to contribute to the cause.

Ian Brotherhood

It’s come to a sorry pass when a thread is dominated by the ‘own-goals’, and the other comments are mostly bickering between genuine indy supporters.

Craig M has his differences with the SNP high-heid-yins – that’s an historic thing and it’s all more-or-less on the record and that’s fine. Aside from the substance of what Craig is saying on this thread right here, the salient point, surely, is that the man is a genuine ‘Winger’ – he reads, comments, attends social gatherings etc. Loads of us have met him all over the country during the past five, six years, and who would dare doubt his committment to the cause?

We can not and will not – ever – agree on everything. (We may not manage – occasionally – to agree on anything!) But we are here, on a Saturday night, when others are out on the town or happily zonked in front of the telly, because this place demands our attention and input.

If we don’t keep contributing here – even if it is only to disagree – then the Ten Pin Bowls win.

And who, really, wants to see that happen?

Eh?

😉

Capella

@ Ian Brotherhood – exactly 🙂

Elizabeth Stanley

Carry on Rock.

While you are replying to my posts others are having a rest.

I’ll still continue to be English born (can’t help that fact),an SNP member & will vote for Scottish independence.

My only regret in this sort of shit conversation is that I was not born Scottish. Then you & people like you would have nothing. I do feel a difference when people like you try to make a difference.

However I am very glad that I differentiate from your position.

Lenny Hartley

Craig Murray, i can assure you if there is no indy ref2 before the mandate runs out, i will be as vocal as youin condemning Nicola, im pretty confident she has a plan and it wont be long before we bare the fruits of her strategy.
However I think your blog post is giving ammunition to the Brit Nats so they can report on the so called continuing SNP Civil War.
Your right we shoud not fall out,I agree with you on many things.

Colin Alexander

It’s a weird situation anyway, the SNP being run from the colonial branch office. Scotland’s sovereignty lies at UK Parliament. I would argue it is represented by our MPs.

Question: So, Why didn’t NS stand to be an MP when she became party leader?

cynicalHighlander

schrodingers cat
22 December, 2018 at 10:16 pm

concur

Liz g

Shrodingers Cat & Yesindyref2
Re Craig Murray…
I’ve listened to Craig at a fair few rallies and spent some time with him at the Glenrothes night out.
When he turned up looking for a few friendly faces as the MSM decided to pick on him that week!
Therefore I think it’s fair to say I have a wee bit of the measure of the man..

I do not doubt that his point of view is genuinely expressed and well worth reading.
But I also think that he is perfectly capable of looking at and considering a different take on a situation. Especially one that is reasonably explained!
The ensuing debate could be both enlightening and cathartic??
But these two clowns CA/R are determined not to let that happen…!!!
They will fail
People like us who have a different takes on matters… only look to debate and won’t shut up..
So thanks for speaking up

Dave McEwan Hill

Socrates MacSporran at 5.53

Agree entirely. Craig is well off the mark. He has little experience of the actual mechanics of politics. He of course is getting support from Colin Alexander (or whoever that is) and that lets us know that what Craig is espousing is against our better interest.

Robert J. Sutherland

K1 @ 20:36,

Season’s greetings to you and yours also!

And to all other Wingers, including the fake ones… =grin=

ronnie anderson

Craig Murray I certainly dont doubt your commitment to the cause of Scottish Independence . Craig your time will come for a seat in Holyrood , the selection panel have a lot to answer for as do the complaints committee , chin up auld fella its coming yit for aw that , aw the bestest tae U your Wife & wee Calum .

schrodingers cat

More
With every Tory led opinion poll and disastrous report coming back from leave constituencies in the Midlands and the North I predict Labour will back May’s deal in the new year to give them the Brexit they want and relieve them from the early election they now don’t want.

ooops

schrodingers cat

soz, that last post was a tweet by pete wishart

ScotsRenewables

Craig Murray says:
22 December, 2018 at 9:14 pm

I sincerely hope I am completely wrong about Nicola. If she calls the Indyref next year I shall be absolutely delighted to be proven to be a stupid arse.

Craig, I believe you will be proved wrong, but you are most certainly NOT a stupid arse. Let;s leave that epithet for our resident Britnat trolls, Cock and Rolin.

I don’t think many here doubt your commitment to the cause, which can be served in many ways inside or outside the SNP, inside or outside Holyrood and Westmsinter.

Keep the faith!

schrodingers cat

Liz g

agreed

im getting annoyed by r an ca numerous posts. it is killing the thread and stopping any real discussion happening. very annoying. i try to scroll past as per stus instructions, but these folk add nothing to the debate, they merely repost text from a pre prepared text

Dave McEwan Hill

The proliferation of panicked contributions on here from the usual suspects indicates how badly they are loosing.

Just as a matter of interest Nicola Sturgeon has and has held the SNP at its highest ever figure despite a continuous campaign in all the media to destroy her and us.

In the meantime Labour is hurtling towards single figures in Scottish polls and latest polls are showing us winning back most of those seats we lost to the Tories in the most useless campaign I ever saw the SNP mount last year.

Online comment is recording a stampede away from Labour support from some very significant figures and I had a lifelong Tory tell me today that there was no way he could vote against independence now.

schrodingers cat

ronnie anderson chin up auld fella its coming yit for aw that , aw the bestest tae U your Wife & wee Calum

————-

well said ronnie

Robert J. Sutherland

Elizabeth Stanley @ 22:46,

Though there are probably better ways to spend your time on here than spar with our resident cretin, the madman in the attic, you have at least succeeded in exposing him (or more accurately, getting him to expose himself) as the nasty piece of work that he truly is.

The closer to winning we get, the more rattled and extreme he becomes. A sure sign. Before, it was just “complain by numbers”, now the more he rants, the clearer it is to all of us just who he is and what he is about. Give him rope…

Anyway, “nihil illegitimus carborundom”. Scotland needs people like you. Have a joyful Christmas!

manandboy

Off the pace a little on Wings due to a busy few days.

Read this, as a prelude to the worse case scenario.

“To make no-deal happen, all its supporters have to do is stonewall everything else. If they can block an early election, block a deal, and block a second referendum – or run out the clock on them – they get what they want by default, and the rest of us will get the worst economic chaos in living memory. To an extent, they have the upper hand.

The clock is ticking faster than we know, because every course of action except inertia takes time. Once we hit the middle of February, an early election becomes a non-starter: the campaign period would take us through March 29, and so we would have no parliament during the critical exit date, making revocation of Article 50 (and possibly an extension of it) literally impossible.

We should not despair: thanks to efforts through the year, stopping Brexit is now a real possibility. But this is also the absolute worst time to relax, and certainly to celebrate. We are coming up to the real Brexit danger zone, and we need to walk into it with our eyes open, and ready for what will be a vicious and high-stakes fight.

The country is dangerously polarised, to the point that the possibility of any of the ‘moderate’ Brexit deals – whether May’s, Norway, or Canada – seems to be dropping, leaving us with the likely face-off between no Brexit and no-deal. It is a winnable battle, but one that we have to be ready to fight. Now is not the time to listen to anyone who reassures you no-deal is off the table. Brexit is over – but only if you want it, and work for it.”

Thepnr

Let’s get something straight, Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP have never changed their mind over another Independence referendum. They have precisely the same stance now as they had in their 2015 manifesto over the EU and whether we are taken out against our will or not ect. ect.

There are far too many ready to get on Nicola Sturgeons back and demanding she get the finger out, call it now blah fucking blah. You lot that do this need to pause a bit and think about what you’re demanding.

First off she has been totally consistent in that ahe will make a statement on a 2nd Independence referendum “when Brexit is clear” what part of that is difficult to understand? As far as I’m concerned she is 100% correct in doing so.

Look at the state of the so called ERG led by Rees-Mogg, that lot made a complete arse of getting rid of May because they got the timing wrong and went too soon. They got their 48 fucking letters for a vote of No confidence but they were a waste of time as they had NO CHANCE of winning when they forced that vote.

Now if they had waited until she had lost the “meaningful vote” then they would have had a chance. I don’t even see their challenge as being serious, it was nothing other than a waste of time and gave May another year. You might even believe that there were some who agitated for it just so as they knew she would win!

Corbyn is in the same boat now, he would lose a confidence vote now and will even probably lose one even after the “meaningful vote” and that’s if he ever calls one which I doubt.

It pisses me off that some Independence supporters have so little faith in the only real political party that has broad enough support to get us there constantly undermine in particular their leadership.

There is no better out there, WE need faith in our leaders and we must support them or stick our heads back under the covers as this will be going nowhere. Just for a change some of you really need to start talking them up, encourage others to support them, stop the fucking grumping and instead shout their praises from the rooftops.

Sycophant? Realist more like and Nicola Sturgeon is head and shoulders above any other politician you could hope to have to lead this movement. That’s not opinion just an absolute fact. Or tell me otherwise, who better?

Ian Brotherhood

@Thepnr –

Hear hear.

ronnie anderson

link to archive.is

Just in case anyone’s missed this .

schrodingers cat

Ian Brotherhood says:

Craig M has his differences with the SNP high-heid-yins – that’s an historic thing and it’s all more-or-less on the record and that’s fine. Aside from the substance of what Craig is saying on this thread right here, the salient point, surely, is that the man is a genuine ‘Winger’ – he reads, comments, attends social gatherings etc. Loads of us have met him all over the country during the past five, six years, and who would dare doubt his committment to the cause?

We can not and will not – ever – agree on everything. (We may not manage – occasionally – to agree on anything!) But we are here,

?

aye, well said ian, once upon a time, indy was a source of fun, i used to fall out wi’ folk and take the piss oot o’ folk, you included. apologies

what is happening or about to happen is much less funny, franky boyle admitted this in his article in the guardian today, it is difficult to find any humour this xmas. he succeded where i cant.

what once was a desire, a wish etc, is now an imperative.

Liz g

Ian Brotherhood & Thepnr
Right.. Ok …
If we all know who the Trolls are..
I’d like your nominations for who is..Big Billy Goat Gruff?
And where the fuck is the bridge…

In Scotland’s story these things matter!!!

Robert J. Sutherland

schrodingers cat @ 23:38,

Agree with Pete about that. As it gets down to the wire next month, Labour will crumble just like the Tories and there will be enough votes between them to get Treeza over the line. With an outside chance they stumble unwittingly into no-deal instead.

I agree with you (as I already said upthread) that we are approaching the tipping point. Where I disagree is only in its visibility in the polls. The situation is pregnant with potential change, but it will require a push with good timing to make it actually happen. The match applied to the gunpowder trail, or the grain falling into the supercooled liquid, if you like.

People are becoming increasingly worried, and just waiting for someone they trust to show a viable pathway out. That’s what’s needed, taking the initiative and not hanging about hesitating, waiting for The Sign.

Recognise the pent-up demand, and breach the dam.

Thepnr

Big Billy Goat Gruff is “The Man”, that guy in the cartoon that is pulling Corbyn’s strings like he tries to pull ours.

Meet the man, he’s not nice but is in the hearts of many.

link to youtube.com

Ian Brotherhood

@SC –

Everything is cool brother, as aye.

🙂

robertknight

“Dave McEwan Hill says:
22 December, 2018 at 8:53 pm
robertknight at 7.19

Do love these dogmatic “experts” laying down the law and the facts about somethings they don’t even know they don’t know anything about.”

I have an opinion Dave, I claim no expertise, and my opinion re. the merits or otherwise of pursuing IndyRef2 is as valid as the next. Try playing the ball…

Do you think that WM will play nice? Do you think that the Weirs or some other minted pro-Yes benefactor will be willing to stump up seven figure sums to match the spending of our opponents? Do you think that the experiences of Quebéc and Cataluña can teach us nothing? Do you think that the constant harping of Yoons re. IndyRef2 encourages the electorate to engage? Do you think it wise for Yes/SNP to place all the eggs in the basket marked IndyRef2?

There are no “experts” here Dave – just opinions voiced in an echo chamber interspersed with those of the occasional Troll.

Thepnr

NOBODY knows what might happen in the next few weeks. NO deal, May’s deal or another vote. Nobody knows, fixating on one or the other is pointless.

That’s why we’re waiting for Nicola Sturgeon to say where she believes the next moves should be. It would be pointless to do otherwise. Only a complete ididot would make VER VERY importnat decisions without the having all the facts first.

Nicola Sturgeon is far from being an idiot, lets leave that to moniker Corbyn and May. I believe that most of you do want to actually WIN Independence?

Fight harder and get right behind the leaders then, there really is no other way. If we can’t believe in Surgeon then why should we expect No voters too? Time to get real.

Liz g

Thepnr @ 12.23
While a very ” relevant ” (scary as fuck) video Alex!
I have to ask
What kind of crazy arsed version of – The Three Billy Goats Gruff – were you told?

Robert J. Sutherland

robertknight @ 00:29,

So given all these impossibles you kindly mention, what’s your solution, pray? “Revolution”, maybe?

We’ve seen this kind of concern trolling, negativity and possible AP pushing before. Some on here are even experts at it.

Try offering solutions instead of difficulties and maybe then we’ll see what you’re really made of…

Colin Alexander

I never said hold indyref NOW.

I said the SNP promised Indyref if Scotland is being dragged out the EU. That’s by 29 March 2019, unless Brexit gets cancelled / delayed.

Then we get negotiating with the EU and take court action to establish if Scotland remains a member of the EU via EU treaties.

Graf Midgehunter

Schröd.cat said:

“im getting annoyed by r an ca numerous posts. it is killing the thread and stopping any real discussion happening.”
——————————

That’s exactly why they’re here, NOT for discussions about the pro an’ cons.

They’re here to deflect, spin, make the site untrustworthy, stop the truth getting out and turn off new visitors.

I’ve said it, the Rev’s said it, lots of other folk have said it, time after time, but still some people can’t resist the urge to “communicate” with the trolls.

Don’t feed the trolls – otherwise they stay and breed.

They don’t give a toss about what you say or any arguments or facts.

You are the mugs, the suckers and the trolls just love you.

Thepnr

@Liz g

Sorry, I wasn’t thinking of the goats. Just the troll and anyway it was an excuse to play that video which is on topic being a bit Satanic. Lest we forget some might say.

ronnie anderson

Dave McEwan Hill Aye rite Dave Craig diznae hiv the mechanics of politics ( pmsl ) at that as a former diplomat he had to have a great deal of knowledge of world politics , & Dave hiave a bit more respect for a Winger Craig would be aghast at any support from Britnat Trolls .

Robert J. Sutherland

Thepnr @ 00:31:

NOBODY knows what might happen in the next few weeks. NO deal, May’s deal or another vote. Nobody knows, fixating on one or the other is pointless.

True that. But we already know that whatever they decide – or funk – it won’t be good. We just have to wait till the public-at-large catch up with that fact next month.

But then – crucially – be ready and willing to capitalise on that and ACT.

Liz g

Thepnr @ 12.47
Aw ok Alex ….. A little relieved,I gotta say… LOL..

yesindyref2

It’s wolf pack tactics too, but in reverse at times. So if the trolls see someone with a different point of view being “attacked”, they might come out with the same views to get the “trust” and later support of that one temporarily cut off from the rest because of a different view. So for instance a support of Craig’s view, even if they actually don’t give a damn either way.

Well, **** that for a game of soldiers. As they say.

Thepnr

Bedtime story courtesy of Liz g 🙂

Big bold Billy Goat Gruff was jealous and couldn’t wait to get across the bridge and join his brothers. So boldly, he put his hooves onto the bridge. Trip, trap, trip, trap. Suddenly the Troll loomed out from under the bridge.

‘Who’s that trip trapping over my bridge?’ he boomed.

‘It’s me. Big Billy Goat Gruff. Who do you think you are?’

‘I’m the Troll and I’m going to eat you for breakfast, lunch and tea!’

‘Oh no, you’re not’

‘Oh yes I am – you’ll see!’

Then the Troll rushed at Big Billy Goat Gruff who bent his head and bravely charged at the Troll, catching him up in his horns and tossing him into the stream below. The Troll disappeared under the rushing water, never to be seen again.

If only it were true LOL

Chick McGregor

And Lucifer is saying: “It taks a lang spoon tae sup wi the Labour Party”.

TJenny

Liz g – ‘where the fuck is the bridge…’

Is there no a Union Bridge somewhere in Scotland? Sure there must be. 🙂

Thepnr

I realise that the last video I linked to may have upset people for obvious reasons. There’s no point in apologising for that as it does represent the worst side of the world as we see it now and is too often unreported.

As an antidote and something positive to think about, this was first played on Wings before the first referendum in 2014 and I’ve never forgotten it. I think we are respected more than most believe by our European cousins.

If you’ve never seen this I’d be surprised if you don’t feel pride.

link to youtube.com

ronnie anderson

AS we would say doon the maiket in times of trouble Build ah bridge an get er it

Colin Alexander

Convoy of SNP lame ducks and merchant tankers sighted. Dive to 10m, then bring us up to torpedo depth. Load all forward tubes. Fire, fire, fire, fire.

SNP Lame ducks and merchant tankers sunk.

Time to get out of here in our U-boat mein kameraden. Before the destroyers Ronnie Anderson and Ian Brotherhood drop the depth charges.

Gute Nacht.

Thepnr

Another troll tossed over the bridge and disappears below the water.

Brian Doonthetoon

Hi Thepnr.

To complement your YouTube link, I feel I must offer this, in remembrance of The Auld Alliance.

link to youtube.com

ronnie anderson

Thepnr gone where Mrs Nebulous ‘s gone 10.000 leagues under the sea , dey swim wie da fishes .

Thepnr

@ronnie anderson

See you next Wings night hopefully, Glasgow in February I believe.

Thepnr

@Brian Doonthetoon

Cheers!

ronnie anderson

Thepnr need tae get the date sorted soon as i have told the Wife to book a holiday to sunnier climes for Feb/Mar & def before the end of Mar .

TJenny

BDtt – man if that disnae stir your Scottish soul, bring a wee tear to your eye, and light your indy fire, you’re either deid or a yoon.

Jack collatin

Ot but somehow not.
Alex Massie in a desperate attempt to be relevant and have people talking about him, accuses the SNP of ‘faux outrage’.
I’m not a member of the SNP therefore do not really have a dug in this fight.
My only contribution is, really, Massie? Is this all you’ve got?
We’ve moved on from this shallow mince that the Dead Tree Scrolls ar paying you an indecent amount of money to churn out.
SNP are not Bad.
I take it that you will be moving South to Empire 2 come April?
I’ll phone a taxi; on me.

Cactus

Here’s Jeremy and co.
link to youtube.com

Nice horns.

Cactus

Everybuddy gettin’ riled up aye… it must be the work of.. Santa.

Good, good, good, good, good, good, good.

Enjoy yer remaining days of ’18 y’all.

NINETEEN. IS. A. COMING.

N. N. N. N.

Thepnr

You’re at the game right and it’s not going well. You’re 1-0 down but there’s still half an hour left.

Then probably your best player fluffs a tackle and the opposition get control, do you shout:

1.) Murphy ya useless bastard fuck off back to Ireland.

or

2.) Murphy get back in there we can do this and we’ll win!

yesindyref2

What’s that expression I heard earlier on NCIS? Oh yes:

If you’re going through Hell, keep going.

Cactus

Did you know this Cairnstoon Corbyn has a drawstring on his back and when the devil pulls his cord, he says “Nothing”(abstain by default) he’s a broken bunny and that’s not funny, well it really is.

SO here are some that work (WARNING, U may find this ‘dark’ 🙂
link to youtube.com

A-yo ho ho, ho ho ho-ho, as U know.

And whom is Satan?

Cactus

The devil stroke satan made me think of this musical song:
link to youtube.com

Laed on.
Tixerb.

Seasons G’s festive neighbours, keep on powering on thru it all Scotland and enjoy yersels throughout it, the big iPush is coming…

2 turtle doves remaining to soar.