The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Brass neck gleaming

Posted on January 08, 2019 by

Wow. That’s Monica Lennon sat directly behind him, by the way.

That must have taken some amount of polishing.

And yes, if you’re wondering, that last one is THIS Rhoda Grant:

Still, the SNP, eh Richard?

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 08 01 19 17:56

      Brass neck gleaming | speymouth

    260 to “Brass neck gleaming”

    1. jimnarlene says:

      Labour’s hypocrisy knows no bounds.

    2. Arbroath1320 says:

      Oh look … Labour branch office temporary branch manager throwing shite at anyone and everyone, especially those in the SNP, in a drastic pathetic ignorant incompetent attempt to smear anyone and everyone desperate that no one looks too closely, or even just glances, at the workings of Labour branch office!

    3. Billy T says:

      There are some sick people at Scottish and English Labour

    4. Billy T says:

      Just noticed Scottish and English Labour is an acronym for SEL out.

    5. call me dave says:

      Leonard doesn’t do self awareness or remember things that might be important. 🙁

      Labour in Scotland have nobody minding the hoose and some people still give them chance after chance after chance to make an ar*e of it.

      PS:
      What’s Mundell saying about the court case has he been asked?

    6. Les Wilson says:

      Oh labour and the Tories, two faces on the same arse.
      Funny not, how both of these can get away with any cover up they want to.
      Why does Scotland put up with this stuff?, still, we will end it very soon now and be shot of all the english parties for good. Scotland’s laws and politicians from then on.

    7. Brian Powell says:

      All the blank pudding faces of the Labour MSPs is fascinating.

    8. Oh well, it’s stopped him gloating about the railway protest. Their hypocrisy is breathtaking.

    9. Thepnr says:

      “How can any women be confident in coming forward with harassment complaints?” asks Richard Leonard.

      Monica Lennon Labour MSP would clearly be the best person to help Dicky out there eh.

    10. Clootie says:

      Only Labour politicians can do this without blushing. No normal person would attempt such an attack when they know that their own record is shameful if questioned. It is only a brass neck and a confidence that the MSM will protect him by ignoring his parties failings that made it possible.

    11. Gary45% says:

      Ah but you miss the point.
      Its only the SNP that are bad.
      Yoons (Red, Blue and Yellow)mantra.
      ESEMPEE BAAAD, repeat until the end of time, because the Yoons have NO POLICIES or IDEAS.
      Nicola should had out tins of Brasso to the chancers at this weeks FMQs.
      Simples.

    12. winifred mccartney says:

      Only labour could have enough of a brass neck to stand up and without blushing and suggest that women would not be confident about coming forward due to government actions – just turn round and ask Monica Lennon – to be a good liar you need to remember previous lies – labour cannot even manage that. And then when you have done that look at the case against Rowley and several others in the labour party and how they were handled.

    13. geeo says:

      Monica Lennon has 6 witnesses, although one sounds like they should be under some scrutiny for their attitude to the issues involved, most female victims do not have that luxury of a witness, yet many still speak out and seek justice.

      Lennon looks like she kept her gob shut to protect her ‘career’, such as it is.

    14. robertknight says:

      Scottish Labour…

      Just,

      Sad…

    15. ScottishPsyche says:

      Labour relying on the FM’s innate class to not go there.

      It should not stop anyone else from pointing out the hypocrisy of the Monica Lennon situation and that of Alex Rowley. The problem is they shield their secretive disciplinary procedures so can say it is dealt with.

      Monica Lennon, however, claims to represent women and to be their champion. She has not been outed against her will, she chose to make (half of) her story public and then say no more. SHe is utterly shameful and can never claim any moral high ground ever.

    16. jezza says:

      Hypocrisy of the highest order.

    17. galamcennalath says:

      Memory like a goldfish, oratory skills of a budgerigar, usefulness of a bedbug, and with the self awareness of a brick. The right person for the job!

    18. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat

      Perhaps you missed my earlier invite to meet tomorrow at 1 pm at the counting house. I’ll be the one with my wings vile Cybernat mug at the front door. I would be grateful for the courtesy of an answer. If you don’t want to buy me a pint I’ll buy us both one. I don’t bite.

    19. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      It’s hard to know where even to start on this.

      Maybe though Sevvy or Clegg can assist women, in their rightful struggle to be treated with all due respect, by at the very least outing the 6 alleged witnesses to Monica Lennon’s alleged mistreatment. Let some light into that sordid affair, in response to the unctuous concerns of Little Controller Dicky Who?.

      A small step for man, a big step for womankind. How about it, news hounds…?

    20. Cubby says:

      BBC UK news

      Not one word that Alex Salmond called on Evans to resign on 3 occasions during his speech. Of course Sarah Smith from the labour Smith dynasty reported in full and written on screen Evans comments. Like all Britnats Evans has a brass neck because she knows the Britnat media will protect her.

      BBC stinking propaganda.

      “Tainted by apparent bias ” that is the case now throughout Scotland. Britnat bias.

      Britnat smear campaign. Britnats smearing crap all over Scotland.

    21. Cubby says:

      It’s people like Rhoda Grant that is dragging Scotland into the gutter. Are there any decent people left in the British Labour Party? Are they all just idiots?

    22. Just reposting from the previous thread as this is SO important. APOLOGIES if too early on this thread

      Nana says:
      8 January, 2019 at 6:20 pm
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/the-salmond-stitch-up-the-incredible-facts-and-why-mackinnon-and-evans-must-be-sacked/

    23. Muscleguy says:

      It wasn’t the SNP who bolloxed up the investigation, it was the ‘Scottish’ civil service which did it. Nicola did the only thing she could by declining to get involved at all, but then as a lawyer she knew that was all they could and should do.

      Though I would have thought a responsible govt to investigate and monitor the progress and conduct of the ‘investigation’ to make sure it was all done properly and above board. They might have caught that was not the case and stopped all this much earlier.

      I trust Alex to find suitable and worth charities for the crowd sourced money which will not be liked by and might well discomfort the Unionists. Like getting someone who owes you money to donate it to a charity they disapprove of . . .

    24. Legerwood says:

      Cubby @ 6.30pm

      Mr Salmond’s call for Ms Evan’s to resign may not have been mentioned in the report on the 6’o’clock news but it certainly was stated on Reporting Scotland.

      On Topic

      Ms Lennon’s refusal to take the matter further despite apparent witnesses to the incident is disgraceful in so many ways. It leaves women, possibly quite young women, open to similar treatment.

      Ms Lennon as a prominent person in public life has an absolute duty to report such behaviour and ensure steps are taken to remove any possibility of repetition.

      That she, in her position, has not done this demonstrates her unfitness for any position.

    25. Capella says:

      Well Richard Leonard is right in one way. This IS extremely serious. Smear campaigns of this magnitude against political opponents must be exposed. Alex Salmond may well sue the perpetrators.

      In the meantime, Richard Leonard would be well advised to assume innocence till proven guilty, or at least until some facts come to light.

    26. Cubby says:

      Legerwood@6.49pm

      I agree that subsequently on Reporting Scotland Taylor did say Salmond called on her to resign. However, Taylor never said he called on her three times in his speech to resign and did not say why he called on her to resign three times in his speech.

      Also I have not seen anyone in the TV coverage ask why Evans has never conducted an inquiry into the leaks to the Daily Record and possible impact of the Daily Record coverage on any future criminal proceedings.

    27. Scottish Steve says:

      To paraphrase a saying from a famous Jewish man, Labour should tend to the plank in its own eye before calling out the speck in the SNP’s.

    28. Another Union Dividend says:

      Unlike Wings, our MSM will never challenge Labour and Tories on their sheer hypocrisy.

      Craig Murray’s blog is worth a read on this topic.

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/the-salmond-stitch-up-the-incredible-facts-and-why-mackinnon-and-evans-must-be-sacked/

    29. Street Andrew says:

      Well as long as she doesn’t have any Jewish ancestry it’ll probably wash over.

    30. Macart says:

      Labour aren’t really big on self inspection, or indeed mirrors. And their short-term memory issues have to be a bit of a worry. 😉

    31. Artyhetty says:

      I just don’t get what Dick Leonard is trying to say. ‘Botched’? what on earth is he implying, and who on earth is he referring to here? His statement is absolutely shocking. If I was Alex Salmond I would be asking for an immediate apology from him. Or else!

      The case has been a disgrace from start to finish, it’s basically been thrown out of court, yet Dick Leonard is saying it was ‘botched’ and throwing in some more sh**e just about, by implying that justice has not been served here?

      As you say Stuart, took some polishing for UK Labour branch in Scotland to twist todays hearing, basically that there was no case to answer against Alex Salmond.

    32. Thepnr says:

      The Tory government has been defeated on an Yvette Copper amendment to the Finance Bill than means things have now become a good bit more difficult for the UK to crash out of the EU with No deal.

      20 Tories rebelled against their own party and 3 Labour MP’s voted WITH the Tories.

      The 3 Labour MPs who rebelled by voting with government on no-deal amendment

      And here are the three Labour MPs who voted with the government against amendment 7.

      Ronnie Campbell

      Kate Hoey

      Graham Stringer

    33. geeo says:

      A method of checking the difference between Labour and the SNP on such issues.

      Monica Lennon makes claims of sex assault, says she initially reported it to the Party (denied) and then dropped it due to fear of not being believed, despite claiming 6 witnesses to said attack.

      Labour says nothing can be done unless a FORMAL complaint is made, despite being made aware there is a potential high ranking sex attacker and 6 labour witnesses covering it up by not reporting what they saw.

      Now, imagine if someone was sexually inappropriate with Mhari Black…..

      The only ‘covering up’ would be the body getting covered by a Sheet as the body bag is loaded into the coroners van.

      Thats the difference between a strong independent young woman, and Monica Lennon.

    34. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      Alex Salmond may well sue the perpetrators.

      I most sincerely hope so!

      At some point IMO the police will say there won’t be any criminal action as a result of the complaints. At that point he should go full out against the defamatory media.

    35. Hamish100 says:

      I am supportive of the FM in most things but I think her apology to the accusers is a bit too much at this stage. Does Mrs Salmond not deserve sympathy? Does Mr Salmond not deserve the basic concept of innocent until proven guilty?
      Someone leaked the confidential information to the Record. Was monies paid or offered for this information? Is the leak from the civil service? They have cost us £350000. In my job I would be sacked. Will they repay the costs or be sacked or continue as normal. They have proven to be biased.

    36. Ken500 says:

      A civil servant breaks the Law. They should be complaining about that. Instead of trying to smear other people. £Millions/Billions of public money being wasted.

      Labour – unionists Parties are criminals. They are killing maiming millions of people, crashing the economy. Most of them should be in jail. They are complete hypocrites. Trying to smear people. Disgusting beyond belief. The 3rd rate losers are despicable. Someone should sue the lot of them for their lies. They get away with murder.How low can they go. Telling more lies. Liars always get found out. Fifty years of filthy Lsbour blowing up the world. Imbeciles.

      Alex Salmond has done more for Scotland and the NE than anyone. The AWPR, Turbine in the Bay, the Golf developments, the airport expansion. A world Statesman with friends all over the world.

    37. Clootie says:

      Arrrggghhhhh!

      Channel 4 News. Politics and aggressive public – cue clip of Murphy facing Nasty Nationalists.
      Another “we are just as bad”

    38. geeo says:

      @thepnr.

      Re: government vote defeat tonight.

      Is it just me, or does this look like a tory ploy to force an attempted extension to Article 50, and get the government off the hook next week (when treezas deal is rejected) by offering a ‘3rd way’ rather than a default ‘no deal’ ?

      “We can no longer have no deal so best ask the EU for an A50 extension” , sort of thing…!

    39. Ken500 says:

      Sue the Daily Record and put in the Police to investigate and arrest them. Put them is chains and put them in cells. They are quick enough to do it to everyone else. On charges that can never come to court. A total waste of time and money. They might even get a weekend off if they stopped criminalising people. Inefficency.

      The unionists psycho bastards should be put in the cells. They illegally tried to get Alex Salmond. They are an absolute disgrace.

    40. Auld Rock says:

      Allow me to present this scenario, of course I suspect it will already have crossed your minds. I’m sure we all know that the ‘Grey Suit’ unionist establishment brigade whose sole aim in life is to try and thwart any ideas of Independence developing and taking hold, movements that are likely to upset their cosy existence in the depths of Westminster and their so called ‘Public Schools’ and their main development ground ‘Oxbridge’. These scheming b*^&*+ds have been at it since before Daniel de Foe’s dirty tricks department conned the Scottish Nobles in 1706/7 into signing the ‘Treaty of Union’.

      Now these present-day plotters knowing that Nicola is virtually untouchable, figure that the best way to get at her and the Scottish Government is through her friend and mentor Alex. In the end we will probably find that there is no evidence to support these prejudicial allegations and the two alleged victims will vanish into the BritNat Civil Service in Englandshire with a nice major promotion to reward them.

      This episode should serve as a warning to all of us that the ‘establishment’ in the shape of the Civil Service will stop at nothing to prevent our Independence. They have used the same tactics to try and under-mine every Independence Movement from Ireland to India and every other country of their ‘Empire’. An empire which sadly still exists in their tiny minds. They have even been trying-it-on with the EU and have been rudely awakened by the EU refusing to lie down and have their tummies tickled.

      Anyone who doubts their way of working should read the history of any of the Independence Movements in their old empire. However, a word of caution, if the author has any connection to Oxbridge bin the book.

    41. Thepnr says:

      @geeo

      “Is it just me, or does this look like a tory ploy to force an attempted extension to Article 50, and get the government off the hook next week (when treezas deal is rejected) by offering a ‘3rd way’ rather than a default ‘no deal’ ?”

      I don’t think an Article 50 extension by itself solves anything anyway unless the EU completely capitulate.

      They’ve already made it clear that the Withdrawal agreement, the only legally binding part will not be reopened, that’s done and dusted as far as they’re concerned.

      It’s also been stated many times that they are very unlikely to agree an extension to the Article 50 period unless for a specific purpose such as a General Election or a 2nd Referendum and I think they’ll stick to that.

      So doesn’t look to be much wriggle room there for May, FWIW I do believe there will be an extension but only after May loses her vote next week and maybe even a second vote on “her” deal. Only then will the government cave in under parliamentary pressure and beg the EU for an extension either for a GE or “nd EU ref.

    42. It seems to me that Nicola is having to leave Alex swimming in the water. If she attempts to throw him any lifejacket, the entire SNP and S. Gov is accused of nepotism and a cover-up.
      Alex may have insisted that she do that.

      I think Aileen Mc Harg is questioning Ms. Evans claim that the rest of the case is still ‘live’ i.e. not dismissed and therefore open to a possible re-investigationat at some future date to be decided when the Police have stopped their cat and mouse game with Alex.

      Craig Murray absolutely convinced that Nicola should sack them both in the morning. Let’s hope she does – although there would be one almighty howl of Cover-up.

      T May seriously defeated tonight at WM but headline is a possible drone affection Heathrow – funny how it happened just about the time of the division in the H o C,

      Oh look a squirrel operating a drone at Heathrow ….

    43. Clapper57 says:

      And let’s not forget the ” behind closed doors ” in-house Tory meeting that admonished Miles Briggs….Did you do anything ? No. Okay we find you innocent…AND….opportunity for the accused MB to directly question accuser….story died very very very quickly…..as did any blame or action.

      O/T

      Did anyone watch Channel four news..shocking lying crap including the Scottish Indy ref with Brexit abuse currently being directed at MP’s outside WM ..showed infamous stunt by Jim Murphy and Eddie Izzard in Glasgow..camera panned to Sean Clerkin….who they , CH4 said , was a Scottish nationalist….oh my….who does their research….I was of course seething…….no mention of Unionist side….just those nasty divisive Nats who are so so the same as rabid abusive Brexiteers.

      Surprised ?… No…once firing gun goes off for Indy Ref2 it will be repeat and rinse all over again courtesy of MSM aka the Unionists little helpers……..

    44. When does (T)Ruthless finish her maternity leave? Can’t have election without her in the driving seat.

    45. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thenpr, dont think that defeat tonight will make any difference, the Parliamen thas already voted to leave the EU on 29th March, the default position is no deal, tinkering with a small amount of potential funding wont make any difference either way.

    46. Clapper57 says:

      meeting that ‘admonished’ Miles Briggs”

      Sorry ‘admonished’ is wrong word meant ‘absolved’ MB of all guilt….had blonde moment…and hubby interrupting me….constantly while I was typing this !!!!

    47. stewartb says:

      Clapper57 @ 8:11 pm

      You wrote: “Did anyone watch Channel four news..shocking lying crap including the Scottish Indy ref with Brexit abuse currently being directed at MP’s outside WM ..showed infamous stunt by Jim Murphy and Eddie Izzard in Glasgow….”

      Saw this too – appalling journalism – wholly inappropriate comparison. Unlike Murphy, Ms Soubry and others outside Westminster were NOT being heckled while on their soapbox. E-mailed the C4 News Room to express my view! No expectation of a response but made me feel better!

    48. Az says:

      Auld Rock 7:57pm

      Well put!

    49. Terry says:

      I’m proud to say I contributed to Alex crowdfunder. And am delighted it’s now going to charity. What I am fuming about is that the Scottish govt have cost us £500,000. It should never have come to that. What sort of lawyers do they employ who couldn’t see that this was a mess and unlawful?

      Read Craig Murray’s blog on this. The two civil servants should be gone by morning. Plus the leaker at the very least.

      Is Alex innocent Of the charges? I hope so. However my gut feeling is the man would never do anything to jeopardise independence. He’s been a threat to the British state for years and from simply a logical point of view I doubt he’d give them any ammunition to use against the movement and he must be closely monitored.

      And the person who should understand most about Westminster stitch ups? Well that would be Nicola – look what Carmichael did to her…

    50. Petra says:

      What a bunch of sneaky wee hypocrites. Aamer Anwar has stated that numerous complaints had been made to him about male politicians from all political parties at Holyrood. I take it that includes the Tories, Labour and Libdems? So who are they?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41795013

    51. Thepnr says:

      The deafeat by itself tonight will make no difference whatsoever. All it does is prove that there is in fact at least 20 Tories willing to vote against May if it comes down to a No Deal crunch time.

      That in itself is significant as it’s not often that Tories will defy the party whip which they did tonight.

      There are others too who at least at this stage will not rule out the possibility of a 2nd EU referendum. Here’s James Kelly’s thoughts from a couple of articles ago.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2018/12/how-will-theresa-may-answer-lorraine.html

    52. geeo says:

      @thepnr

      “I don’t think an Article 50 extension by itself solves anything anyway unless the EU completely capitulate”
      ……….

      Nor do I, it just seems like that is the only way treezw gets to kick the can down the road whole waiting on the miracle which ain’t coming.

      The EU will surely not allow this to drag on and still be going on when the EU elections are due.

      Like you, i believe, ‘enough is enough’ will be their (eu) mantra.

    53. Clapper57 says:

      stewartb @ 8.18pm

      Stewart….this was straight out of the Nick Robinson playbook on how to edit the truth.

      Channel four news now deploying same strategy as used and abused by Dominic Cumming in Vote Leave……of which they, Channel Four news, have reported on many times with indignation ….oh well I guess when it suits THEM i.e. CH4 News it’s a case of if you can’t beat em ….join em…..manipulation and propaganda works….so hey let’s give it a go….try it out on the Jocks just for a laugh….the NAT ones….again….first shot pre second Indy Ref ….one of many to be fired by them I think.

    54. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Clootie @ 19:50,
      Clapper57 @ 20:11,
      stewartb @ 20:18,

      Channel 4 News, I have come to realise, is the Graun of the airwaves. Just another supposedly progressive facet of the English Establishment with proverbial feet of clay.

    55. Clapper57 says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland @ 8.46pm

      Yep Robert…..one of many….too many to mention.

    56. Capella says:

      Can we, the Scottish people, sue the media for defamation? A class action?

    57. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      The Rev’s already sued the media for defamation and I like to think it’s on our behalf. That for me will do for now 🙂

    58. jfngw says:

      Channel 4 is merely a commercial version of the BBC, as the wiki says

      ‘Channel Four Television Corporation, a public corporation of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport’

      I’m not sure why anyone would think it in the end would be more impartial on Scotland than the BBC.

    59. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      8 January, 2019 at 6:30 pm

      “BBC UK news

      Not one word that Alex Salmond called on Evans to resign on 3 occasions during his speech.”

      If she doesn’t resign within 24 hours SHE MUST BE SACKED.

      Cubby, are you ready for demonstrations against the Scottish Government if it protects Evans?

    60. dakk says:

      OT

      Just watched a Sky News interview with Tory MP Sir Edward Leigh just after the gov defeat in HoC.

      His take was that since Article 50 was passed and is Primary legislation,even if Parliament rejects May’s deal. Brexit will still go through as No Deal default on March 29. Time is on her side he said. Parliament cannot stop it now.

      I think Rev Stuart had already said something similar in adifferent way in a post a few weeks ago.

      Also a couple weeks ago a big Leave means Leave ‘green room’ activist client of mine told me that the ‘no deal’ 1922 committee actually brought the leadership challenge to May when they did knowing it would fail and therefore she could not be challenged again until after brexit.So nothing can stop her seeing this through. They deliberately empowered her.

      They are assured she will deliver Brexit deal or no deal.

      I had thought till now that Parliament would still find a way to cancel or delay Brexit,but now I’m beginning to believe I will no longer be an EU citizen come April.

    61. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      8 January, 2019 at 7:34 pm

      “I am supportive of the FM in most things but I think her apology to the accusers is a bit too much at this stage. Does Mrs Salmond not deserve sympathy? Does Mr Salmond not deserve the basic concept of innocent until proven guilty?”

      Rock (8th December 2018 – “The Stoned Roses”):

      “It was the ultimate in stupidity and gutlessness for Nicola to stand “shoulder to shoulder” with “Tory scum” Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.

      She had no reason to open her mouth – she should have dismissed it as a reserved matter. That would have shut up the unionists. Instead she is now hostage to what she said.

      Nicola has fully backed the dishonest unionist civil servant trying to destroy Alex Salmond.

      The British Establishment has ZERO fear of Nicola but it is terrified of Alex Salmond.”

    62. Ken500 says:

      It is nothing to do with Nicola. Deans was conspiring with McKinnon the corrupt cop. They were off on an illegal tangent. They were acting illegally breaking all the Laws in the book. The ignorant arrogance. They must have known they were behaving illegally. Or should have, otherwise they were not fit for their jobs. Especially the Cop. It was basically entrapment Totally against the Law.

      Nicola only found out what they had been doing shortly before it had been made public by the lying Press. Nicola and the Scottish Gov could do nothing. Just let these crooks make an absolute complete fool of themselves. They will be out on their ear. For totally disrespectful and illegal activity.

      The first thing that should have been done if any allegations resurfaced was inform the Scottish Gov who they both are suppose to work for on exhorbitant salaries. A complete breach of confidentially and totally illegal. Just appalling. Both these parasites should go. Who they think they are? Out of touch with reality full of their own importance and conceit.

      The Scottish Gov can implement the Leveson recommendations. They should. Even if it is to stop the Press printing absolute lies abd breaking the Law. At least they would think twice about being sued. People cannot sue the Press because it is so expensive. That is how they get away with it. It can be beamed from anywhere. That is maybe why it is not worth doing it.

    63. Thepnr says:

      See all Independence supporters that have a wee pop at Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP for whatever reason then the response you get from Rock is totally predictable.

      If you want to complain about Nicola Surgeon then send her an email.. If you want’t to complain about the SNP then get in touch with them and tell them why.

      The reason some choose to wash their own dirty linen on here totally confounds me. It is defeatist, demoralising and an absolute gift for the opponents of Independence.

      Wise up is all I can say, we all have our gripes but deal with them correctly by going to the source as this is not the place if you truly support Independence. Our enemies love nothing better than sowing division and exposing such.

    64. jfngw says:

      UK has 5 main terrestrial channels, 3 are indirectly under government control, another relies on the largesse of the government for it’s licence (given the chance I think it would become part of the ITV network) and the last one churns out pap (pretty much the same as the all the others on freeview).

      We still have the best broadcasting in the world, apparently, the rest must be really terrible in that case. Or we are being lied to?

    65. Rock says:

      Craig Murray:

      “Nicola Sturgeon must now move to demand the resignation of both Evans and Mackinnon. Both fully deserve to lose their jobs. If Sturgeon moves to protect them, she will attract suspicion that she is motivated by keeping them silent about the extent of her own involvement in the sorry process. To avoid this rumour she has to act swiftly and decisively and invite them to resign tomorrow morning.”

      If Nicola does not sack these two within 24 hours, it will be proven beyond doubt that she has been bought by the British Establishment.

    66. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@9.05pm

      Rockshit you are a Britnat diddy.

      Rockshit = Britnatshit. Try quoting that.

    67. Ken500 says:

      May’s Gov can still be voted down if there was a relevant committed opposition. They have just been voted down. Being voted down will lead to a GE of 2nd EURef. Independence for Scotland? .

      The only way forward for the Tories could be to get rid of May. They got rid of Thacher over EU matters. Then went on to lose a GE. (Blair). The poisoned chalice. May could have been voted down Sept 2017. If they was a proper opposition.

      It would be relevantly easy to rejoin the EU. Or the next best connections. It is Independence is the most importance to Scotland. Everything else can be negotiated ,

    68. Hamish100 says:

      Ken== I understand where you are coming from but the FM should have got the civil servants to explain their actions not that they have her full support.

      Why not say I wish an internal enquiry as to how £350k was wasted by 2 individual civil servants and who information was leaked to the press. It is unacceptable to ALL parties involved.

    69. Thepnr says:

      You see what I mean, there’s Murray demanding Nicola sack them by tomorrow. They should be sacked or they should walk by all Craig Murray has done is gift our opponents anither stick to beat us with.

      Without leaders we are by default leaderless. Well bollocks to that. We stand by our leaders if we want to win and that includes getting splattered with the shite aimed at them by our lying media.

      In fact we should be deflecting that shite not encouraging it to be flung from the Britnat trolls, politicians and media

    70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella @ 20:51,

      Probably not, though it would be extremely satisfying!

      It can be done in the court of public opinion, though. In effect that’s what has been happening these last few years, if in a fairly low-key one-to-one way. (And having an effect, as witnessed by the viewer/reader stats.) But it could be upped into a “boycott the sneering media” campaign to bring about a greater sense of public awareness. People don’t appreciate being demeaned. It’s just a matter of alerting them to it.

      Far-too-common passivity and weak self-esteem are our greatest enemies. (Hence the nightly attempts of Lord Haw-haw to bolster it.)

    71. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:16 pm

      “The Scottish Gov can implement the Leveson recommendations. They should.”

      Why haven’t they then?

      Apologists for Nicola and the SNP are the ones doing harm to the independence cause, not those who seek to hold them to account.

      As far as the independence cause is concerned Nicola has achieved ZERO since becoming leader.

      Rock (2nd November 2018 – “Ifs and buts and maybes”):

      “The iron was hot and ready to be struck the day after the Brexit referendum result.

      If Alex Salmond had been in charge, he would have not missed the opportunity.

      But cautious Establishment lawyer Nicola was not up to it.”

    72. Ken500 says:

      Craig Murray is not the Gov. A lose cannon mouthing off, it is not his responsibility. These people will have contracts that must be negotiated. If they are not charged and imprisoned. Or disciplined Or sued. They are calculating operators who believed they would get away with it. They have already been totally discredited by a court of Law. One of the highest in the land.

      Craig Murray publically tore up his SNP membership card. With malice because he was not selected as a candidate. He could not stand in line. Since showing why it was the right decision with every malicious outrage.

    73. Dr Jim says:

      If Alex Salmond has anything to say to or about Nicola Sturgeon he’ll say it to her if and when he decides not when some politicking gripers on the internet decide to create trouble for their own ends over it

    74. Ken500 says:

      Rubbish can be beamed in from anywhere. Troll.

    75. Ken500 says:

      Alex and Nicola will still be close. This will unite the Psrty. Especially when Alex rejoins. Triumphant. The members can’t wait for him to be back. Get all the news and anecdotes. The truth,

    76. Rock says:

      Thepnr says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:32 pm

      “You see what I mean, there’s Murray demanding Nicola sack them by tomorrow.”

      Cubby says:
      8 January, 2019 at 6:30 pm

      “BBC UK news

      Not one word that Alex Salmond called on Evans to resign on 3 occasions during his speech.”

      Thepnr, if Evans and Mackinnon refuse to resign, should they be sacked within 24 hours or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, don’t be a coward, go on the record.

      Same challenge to all Nicola apologists.

      If Nicola has any respect for Alex Salmond and his wife, she must sack Evans and Mackinnon within 24 hours.

      No more flogging dead horses.

    77. Rock says:

      Hamish100 says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:31 pm

      “Ken== I understand where you are coming from but the FM should have got the civil servants to explain their actions not that they have her full support.”

      Nicola most stupidly gave 100% support to the dishonest unionist civil servants trying to bring down Alex Salmond.

      It is now time for her to give 100% support to Alex Salmond and his wife and sack the dishonest unionist civil servants within 24 hours.

      Nothing else will wash.

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 21:32,

      A point well made. This case was always available as a gift for the BritNats, whichever way it went. If AS loses, it’s “SNP ex-leader gets his comeuppance”, if he wins, it’s “SNP government incompetent”. Either way, the motivation is the same: drive a wedge into the SNP in particular and the yes movement in general. The ridiculous “civil war” meme. (While, richly ironically, both main WM parties are visibly fissuring with nary a media mention.)

      This business was fumbled by the Civil Service, but to a certain extent for the right reasons. Some people probably need a good (if politically-correct) talking-to for poor judgement. But if either of my lovely and smart daughters were ever to work for the SG, I would want them to be adequately protected. All this cynical politically-motivated mud-slinging does precisely the opposite.

    79. Rock says:

      Thepnr says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:32 pm

      “Without leaders we are by default leaderless. Well bollocks to that. We stand by our leaders”

      That is how Labour leaders got totally corrupted in Scotland – blind faith.

      For how many years did you vote for Labour in Scotland, Thepnr?

      How do you feel now about having been duped for so long?

      If blind faith in religion is bad, blind faith in politicians is worse.

    80. Thepnr says:

      No deal really will be a disaster for the economy and Joe Public in particular. I just can’t see the majority of MP’s going along with that, not all of them are part of “the establishment” by any means.

      17 of the 20 Tories who voted against their own government tonight are former Tory Ministers. That takes balls and they’re not going to change their mind anytime soon.

      At the end of the day though it’s all going to come down to Corbyn and that tosser might just ABSTAIN when it comes to the crucial vote as that is the Labour party way under his “leadership”.

    81. Cubby says:

      Rockshit@9.47pm

      “Nothing else will wash” Its long overdue that you wash your mouth out after all the verbal crap you spout. A bad bout of Britnat verbal diarrhoea.

      What happened to your “snap Brexit” you forecast – Nostrabamus gets it wrong again. In fact do you ever get anything correct you Britnat shit stirrer.

      Did you forecast Salmond winning the court case – no. Just a big mouth Britnat idiot.

      Try quoting this Rockshit = Britnatshit.

    82. Thepnr says:

      Cross-party alliance of MPs tells May: we will stop no-deal Brexit

      Theresa May faces a concerted campaign of parliamentary warfare from a powerful cross-party alliance of MPs determined to use every lever at their disposal to prevent Britain leaving the EU without a deal in March.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/cross-party-alliance-of-mps-tells-may-we-will-stop-no-deal-brexit

    83. Rock says:

      Nicola has the habit of not striking when the iron is hot.

      The iron is very hot now and she must sack WITHIN 24 HOURS the two dishonest unionist civil servants who tried to destroy Alex Salmond.

      If she wants to continue acting like an ultra cautious Establishment lawyer, she should not be leader of the SNP.

    84. call me dave says:

      No amount of lapidary is going to make some pebbles on the beach into little gems. They are worthless.

      Simon and Garfunkel: They feel no pain or empathy please leave them in the sand don’t waste any time on them FGS! 🙁

      It won’t be too long till the dust settles.

    85. Rock says:

      Cubby says:
      8 January, 2019 at 6:30 pm

      “BBC UK news

      Not one word that Alex Salmond called on Evans to resign on 3 occasions during his speech.”

      Cubby, if Evans and Mackinnon refuse to resign, should they be sacked within 24 hours or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, don’t be a coward, go on the record.

    86. Rock says:

      Thepnr says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:58 pm

      “https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/cross-party-alliance-of-mps-tells-may-we-will-stop-no-deal-brexit”

      Direct links to unionist websites.

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      1 January, 2019 at 12:08 pm (The one we’ve waited for)

      “With no National to enjoy this merning I made the mistake of buying a Herald.”

      And they accuse others of being Britnats.

    87. geeo says:

      Sky news Headline at 10 just now…

      “Scotland’s former FM Condemns his country’s top civil servant”

      Wow…not ‘Scottish government’ you say in shocked surprise ?

      Next line

      “After bungled investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct”

      And back to implied guilt…..

      Scum.

    88. galamcennalath says:

      Thepnr says:

      Cross-party alliance of MPs tells May: we will stop no-deal Brexit

      What I found particularly telling was that all but 20 Tories voted with their government. My interpretation of that is ONLY 20 Tories are willing to put the UK and people’s wellbeing and livelihoods before party. Disgraceful.

      I actually don’t believe all those Tories want No Deal, however they are willing to allow it rather than drop party allegiance.

    89. Ken500 says:

      Stop watching SKy.

      The Press are lying bastards. Ignorant psycho bastards, every word they utter is a lie.

      Thank goodness for the internet.

    90. Thepnr says:

      The Alex Salmond farce has gone on long enough. I doubt the hunt for the Great Train Robbers went on this long before a decision was made to charge someone or not.

      The only reason it’s taking so long is because of the political sensitivity, well that should have lessened after today’s decision. Those that complained of Alex’s Salmond have been let down badly today by the the Scottish civil service arm of the government.

      Another person being treated very unfairly today by Police Scotland is Alex Salmond. This will be coming to a close soon and the sooner the better for all concerned. Stop wasting time.

      Those in charge at the Procurator Fiscals office and at Police Scotland really need to get the finger out. The public are watching and will want to know just why it’s all taking so long?

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Thepnr @ 21:58,

      OK, let’s say there is a demonstrated majority in the HoC against no-deal. What then? Is there a majority for dumping Art.50? Probably not. The EU is not going to renegotiate anything, whatever hope the English exceptionalists may cling to about that. It may take some additional time, courtesy of a short extension from the EU27, but is this not simply helping chivvy MPs, both Tory and Labour, into eventually concluding that May’s “deal” is the only viable way forward…?

    92. Thepnr says:

      @galamcennalath

      The wee quiet mouse of a backbencher who is against No deal wasn’t willing to say anything today and why would they? They waited tom see the lie of the land.

      What they saw was that 17 out of the 20 Tories that voted against their own party were ex-ministers. So now they have a clue where this is going.

      Where the shepherd leads the sheep will follow!

    93. Ken500 says:

      Folk voted Labour in Scotland to keep the Tories out. The worse of two evils.

      Until the SNP came along and won amazing victories because they govern so well. Even in a political system corrupted by lying unionists without a mandate. 3rd rate losers.

    94. Cubby says:

      thepnr@10.17pm

      A sky reporter earlier today stated that the criminal case continues with an investigation into the two civil servants complaints, complaints from Edinburgh airport and other complaints. They did not clarify what other complaints meant. How many and where? Just more smear by the media? Or…

      Are Britnats who hate Salmond popping up everywhere to lie their heads off to drag this out for a long long time – say until the indyref is over. One thing about Britnats they sure hate Salmond and Sturgeon with a vengeance.

    95. Thepnr says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland

      I did try and put what I thought the probabilities were for various scenarios some 4 weeks ago. My views have changed slightly since then, as no way did I expect May to cancel the vote as she did in December.

      Roughly though I still feel the same about the possible outcomes.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/return-of-the-terror/comment-page-1/#comment-2415839

    96. jfngw says:

      Outright lies on Newsnight about the Scot Referendum, Jim Murphy was forced to abandon his canvassing do to campaign of egg throwing.

      The BBC just can’t be trusted with the truth, what a corrupt organisation.

    97. Thepnr says:

      @Cubby

      You know what? I don’t think I’d worry too much about what any potential “witness” had to say who had worked at Edinburgh Airport had to say at the time of the accusations.

      If they did witness “something” which I doubt, then how serious could it have been? I mean would it have been serious enough to be classed as a criminal offence? If so it should have been dealt with at the time, not more than 5 years later is my opinion.

      “I saw Alex Salmond smack a woman on the backside as they went through security and she was not happy”

      That doesn’t work much does it. I just made that up of course but hey don’t the news do this shit all the time?

    98. IZZIE says:

      SNP Civil War latest OMG According to the BBC there are warnings of Gaels in Hebrides and Fair Isle

    99. Terençe callachan says:

      1) Alex Salmond……I don’t blame Nicola Sturgeon at all, this whole episode was a Westminster charade done in the name of the Scottish office, it is not Nicola Sturgeon that employs those civil servants involved it is Westminster it’s the same as mundell, Nicola Sturgeon cannot sack him either he is not one of her employees.
      Nicola Sturgeon did what she had to do as first minister which is trust the law, that means to a degree she has to trust those involved in bringing the case to court.The court threw the case out for obvious reasons , it will go no further , Westminster achieved what it set out to do which is give the britnat media the opportunity to twist the story and its ending .
      Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond are smart and in my opinion play the game well , I’m sure Alex Salmond agreed with Nicola Sturgeon doing all she has done including avoiding being seen to back him which would have led to worse britnat media, they will see it through and will win even though Nicola has to play the game of first minister she will be doing it in a way that foils the sleekit Westminster plan to destabilise prominent Scottish independence politicians

      2) BREXIT…..it is very likely that Westminster will vote against may and very likely Westminster will not allow a NO DEAL Brexit, they will ask the EU for an extension period to sort things out ( haha after 2 yrs)
      I reckon Westminster have already discussed this with EU and that is why the EU and the Irish government had talks the other day.
      Ireland are sticking to their rule which is that there must be no border.
      The EU will back them.
      Many in England were on radio phone ins today screeching that
      There is no need for a backstop
      There is already a border
      NI leaving the EU with UK will not change anything about the border it will change nothing
      Honestly it had to be heard to be believed ,English people don’t care a jot if war erupts in Ireland again it is far more important that England leave the EU even with a NO DEAL Brexit.
      It’s all coming out now, England don’t care one bit about what happens in Northern Ireland or in Scotland as a result of Brexit ,there were many Scottish people who were brexiters phoning in too and they were exactly the same ,stuff Scotland stuff Northern Ireland it’s more important to kick out the foreigners and stop any more coming in.
      Further comments such as we ( UK) saved Europe twice from total destruction in two world wars we are sick and tired of bailing them out .
      So there we have it ,most of England and a fair bit of the rest of UK want Brexit .
      Westminster wants Brexit too but they want to keep Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland more, they can always rejoin or leave the EU again in future but Scotlands independence will be final, Scotland would never be part of a UK again once it is independent, nor would Northern Ireland or Wales.
      Westminster hope that a delay will see people tire of it all or a change of appointment in some high office that will set a new course.
      Good job Nicola Sturgeon did not call a Scottish independence referendum months ago when some hurried independence supporters were calling for it because the cry from the “NO” camp would have been “nothing has changed ,there has not been any material change how can you call another independence referendum”
      Well done Nicola Sturgeon
      Good job someone knows what they are doing

    100. dakk says:

      Fuck Sir Edward Leigh,I think I will go with my original prediction.

      A parliamentary rebellion and gov of national unity headed by say an Amber Rudd or a Hugh Gaffney which revokes A50 pending another ref.

      Don’t forget I got Patrick Reed at 50/1 to win the Masters last year.

    101. Stu,

      Have you put the wrong image at the top of the piece?

    102. Valerie says:

      Just watched Dick deliver his contribution of hypocritical bile to Holyrood. Nicola certainly doing a lot of fancy footwork, to defend the process.

      Rhoda Grant demanding to know the content of the 5 occasions Nicola met Alex, ffs.

      Nicola is always good under pressure, but there is a real difficulty here for her, and she is no doubt more than aware.

      She is defending the processes as “robust” on several occasions. If that’s the case, and her judgement, then it follows that McKinnon and Evans did not APPLY those processes correctly. When that it is the case, and there is a resulting outcome like today, a disciplinary hearing generally follows. I think that’s why the weasel words of “institutional failure” was applied, so as not to point the finger.

      I witnessed, was involved directly, at various levels in Disciplinary Hearings, sackings, tribunals as a senior manager in Local govt. My feet wouldn’t have touched the ground if I’d lost my Council half a million.

      Seriously. Someone should be losing their job.

    103. Ken500 says:

      Alex Salmond is totally respectful to people. Having millions of women friends and supporters. He has done more for Scotland and the SNP than anyone. He has friends all over the world and has met many leaders. He is a great Statesman abd is respected all over the world. One insignificant civil servant and a corrupt cop will not bring home down. The Edinburgh airport farce is complete lies. His driver who was always with his testify to that. The cops should get their act together and stop waiting public money on a wild goose chase, Go and get the guilty ones.

      The Daily Record could get sued and be investigated. Put them in a cell. For lying abd causing trouble wasting public money on heresay and nonsense. Malicious. .

    104. Rock says:

      Valerie says:
      8 January, 2019 at 11:09 pm

      “She is defending the processes as “robust” on several occasions. If that’s the case, and her judgement, then it follows that McKinnon and Evans did not APPLY those processes correctly. When that it is the case, and there is a resulting outcome like today, a disciplinary hearing generally follows. I think that’s why the weasel words of “institutional failure” was applied, so as not to point the finger.”

      Valerie, if Evans and Mackinnon refuse to resign, should they be sacked within 24 hours or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, be brave, go on the record.

    105. Rock says:

      Ken500 says:
      8 January, 2019 at 11:16 pm

      “One insignificant civil servant and a corrupt cop will not bring home down.”

      Ken500, if Evans and Mackinnon refuse to resign, should they be sacked within 24 hours or not?

      Yes or No? Go on, be brave, go on the record.

    106. Thepnr says:

      Ignore the trolls! hahaha as if you need telling 🙂

    107. Big Jock says:

      Too many people like her who have already decided his guilt. For all any of us know the accusations could be entirely false.

      We just don’t know.

    108. Robert Peffers says:

      Get a grip folks.

      Much of the three devolved parliament Civil Service is directly employed by Westminster/Whitehall. They thus work for Westminster, (the de facto parliament of England), and not for the Holyrood Government of Scotland.

      Have a wee read at this:-

      https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/civil-service-devolved-nations

    109. Gary45% says:

      Valerie@11.09
      Riddy Grunt is just another Shortbread Red Tory nobody.
      An embarrassment to politics,(then again she is a Yoon).
      So no surprise there.

    110. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@11.01 pm

      You must have spent a bit of time putting that post together. Pity you can’t make the time to answer the following:

      1. Where and when did I threaten you? Just a lie was it Terry old boy.

      2. Where did you source your figure of 800k English in Scotland? Just a made up figure Terry old boy.

      3. A cracker of a fictitious story about me being a Labour activist. Just another lie Terry old boy.

      You may or may not be a Britnat but you sure as hell lie like a Britnat.

    111. Ian McCubbin says:

      All that can be expected form the unionist ranks of so called socialism.
      Worse behaviour I have never seen or known than the mysoginy of Labour in Scotland for 40 years.. Enough said.

    112. Big Jock says:

      I think if May wins the vote next week it will be the best outcome for us. Voting it down will cause more uncertainty and delays.

      Sturgeon will have the clarity to act immediately. In fact she could hold a press conference straight after the vote for maximum impact.

    113. Cubby says:

      Thepnr@10.48pm

      Yes that is my point enough Britnats hate Salmond so much they would risk lying to the police to drag this out. I still think the end result will be no charges against Salmond but it may drag on longer.

    114. Cubby says:

      Tterence Callachan

      Of course, Britnats never admit to lying and they never, ever apologise for lying. If the Britnat cap fits Terry old boy just do the honest thing – wear it. Oh sorry, I forgot, Britnats never do the honest thing either.

    115. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      I wish someone like Joanne Cherry QC or even Peat Worrier would explain why it is not advisable to be contesting the many acts instigated by Westminster that have ignored Scotland’s sovereignty.

      As far as I understand it, Westminster’s system is predicated on ‘precedent’. The more the SG ignores these instances that breach the acts of union, the more they lend weight to Westminster’s argument.

      I get the feeling the inaction regrading this matter is a replay of Charles Stuart sitting outside a largely unprotected London arguing with his generals as to the best course of immediate action. Sadly, we all know how that ended.

    116. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat

      As it’s now midnight I guess you are not going to accept my invitation. It is of course very rude not to reply. After all I changed my lunch plans. I guess I have free time tomorrow lunchtime. I thought you wanted to reduce the names on your list. Is the problem that your mum told you not to talk to strangers in the pub. Good advice I suppose.

    117. Ken500 says:

      Alex Salmond could make a complaint against Police. For any hassle. Or anyone else could. There are grievance procedures. Anyone can make a complaint about the Cop and the civil servant. To the Police or Civil servant discipline authorities. There would have to be an Inquiry. The Cop and civil servant have already damaged their reputation. They are now a laughing stock. Damaging at that, unreliable and untrustworthy. They have lost all authority, respect, confidence or credibility.

    118. Sarah says:

      @Cubby – there have been no posts from PC today so it could be that he is otherwise occupied, couldn’t it, and not that he is ignoring your kind invitation.

    119. Bob Mack says:

      Re Alex Salmond,

      Remember the civil service is a UK device. If Scottish civil servants decided to change the rules on investigations ,they could only have done so with the approval of their masters in Whitehall. The same system does not operate in the rest of the UK,
      This rather tends to put Mundell in the frame.

      Craig Murray has a point,but I would think it could only be carried out after a police investigation which clears Mr Salmond. What position would Nicola find herself in if Alex was charged and found guilty in court, and Nicola has fired the SG investigators for bias?

    120. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Bob Mack @ 12.17am

      Thanks Bob, for the most-sensible post on the whole thing I have seen.

      In reality, there is nothing Nicola can do until the Police investigation either clears Alex, of recommends to the Procurator Fiscal that he be charged.

      If th Police recommend no further action, then, the FM can ask for Evans’ and McKinnon’s resignations. I doubt, however, if she has the authority to sack them, since Evans, at least was a Whitehall placement, to which she agreed.

      McKinnon, however, would certainly it seems to me, be in line for a severe reprimand at the very least.

      It is, after all, awfully difficult to sack a civil servant who is high enough up the pecking order.

    121. Thepnr says:

      @Bob Mack

      “What position would Nicola find herself in if Alex was charged and found guilty in court, and Nicola has fired the SG investigators for bias?”

      A very pertinent question to ask indeed. I like Craig Murray and have even had a dram with him but on this assertion that Nicola Sturgeon should sack then tomorrow or let some rumour start that she is complicit alongside them if simply ridiculous.

      Craig Murray himself is starting the rumour as until his piece there was no rumour. Fucked up there Craig, never wise to jump the gun in my opinion. I’m pretty sure Nicola Sturgeon knows EXACTLY what she is doing and that is protecting the reputation of the Scottish government and her party for complete fairness.

      Guess what I’m also pretty sure that Alex Salmond is 110% behind her in this approach. Just mu opinion of course so feel free to differ.

    122. William Wallace says:

      To add to the late night (early morning) debate in my usual simplistic manner: If the polis had anything then they would have charged big Eck by now and referred it to the PF. They have got fuck all and they are stringing it oot on behalf of the establishment.

      That’s the end o it. Charge him or beat it wi this shite.

      Where is the desert dweller that is the mighty Cactus? Is he alright?

    123. Cubby says:

      Sarah @12.14am

      Thanks for your comment and I take it in the positive helpful manner it was posted. However PC did post Tuesday 8th 4.22 pm on the previous thread. In addition, I had also posted the invite previously on other occasions/days since he produced his list and he had posted then as well.

      He is quite entitled to ignore me. But if he is serious about wanting to reduce the names on his list then he should engage.

      I also feel that I am entitled to object to someone who does not know me putting me on his list of potential Britnats. Now that does offend me. It may not bother other people to be on the list and that is their prerogative and I have no problem with that.

    124. William Wallace says:

      @ Cubby

      Dinnae worry aboot being on the list. It’s pish anyway.

      You don’t have to prove anything to anybody. Some people make these gatherings/meetings and some don’t. It does not make anyone any better or any different to you. We are all pursuing the same goal at the end of the day (well most of us anyway).

      Cliques within any movement are a load of nonsense tbh. I’ve spent a lot of years involved in direct action and it’s far better to exist outside of them – alongside others who couldn’t care less about their inclusion.

      Far better to be on the fringe as an objective observer than to be part of the “in crowd” looking inward. That’s where all the people are anyway 😉

      @ Liz G

      Missed your message on a previous topic. I am well and I hope you are keeping well too. In answer to your question, I think I will make the February meet.

    125. Liz g says:

      William Wallace @ 1.36
      Glad to hear your doing ok William,and looking forward to finally meeting ye…
      Should be a goodnight,they usually are!

    126. Thepnr says:

      Short article from the Irish News but interesting none the less.

      http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/01/09/news/delegation-of-orangemen-in-london-for-brexit-discussions-1524176/

      Apologies for using the full link but for some reason posts with an archive link at least from me are not appearing now.

    127. crazycat says:

      @ Thepnr

      Try this:
      https://archive.is/HwFEh

      (It had already been archived, maybe by you – 33 minutes ago, so rond abput whne you posted) – we’ll see if it posts.

    128. crazycat says:

      Oops! That’s the worst bit of typing I’ve submitted prematurely for a while. Obvious what it means though.

    129. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      William Wallace @ 01:36,

      Has something changed that I missed, or is this something else? The “Feb” date I have noted is Sat 02.March…?

    130. Liz g says:

      Crazycat @ 2.27
      Ye could say it was Crazy? LOL…

    131. William Wallace says:

      @RJS

      Right – whaz changed the date? 😉

      Ehm no havin it. 🙂

    132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      William Wallace @ 03:36,

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/gloom-tinted-glasses/#comment-2421546

      Unless of course it’s been updated since and I’ve missed it…

      …(only too likely, I fear)… =grin=

    133. William Wallace says:

      @ RJS

      Nah it’ll be me slacking aff as per. 🙂

    134. Craig Murray says:

      Remember the Michelle Thomson case. It was immediately obvious she had done nothing wrong and a genuine police investigation could have cleared up the entire matter in two days.

      Instead an “investigation” was kept open for two years – without even questioning her – in order to destroy her political career, before it was dropped.

      Expect this to be held over Alex’ head to keep him out of the next referendum, or more pertinently the campaign for a new referendum. It will be spun out for years and years.

    135. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      You make a good point Craig, but I think Alex is much too astute to allow this to happen. I’m sure he has his next few moves already planned and ready to go.

      Do you concede, the latest piece on your blog suggesting that NS should act swiftly to get rid of the two civil servants was somewhat premature? As if (at a later stage)the police were to find Alex guilty it would bring a huge shitstorm directly to NS’ door for dismissing staff for no good reason. The crooked media would never let her live it down.

    136. Gerry says:

      Evans has broken the civil service code of conduct. Of course she should go, but she should be subjected to the proper procedures first.

    137. Craig Murray says:

      Cyber-Corroboree,

      No I do not accept that. Their actions as civil servants were described by the judge as biased and unfair – that is quite enough to sack them and does not relate to the validity or otherwise of any allegations.
      In fact not to sack civil servants whose actions the judge has called biased and unfair is quite wrong.

    138. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      Exactly Gerry. They must be seen to be given the rights of due process. Otherwise the MSM will have a field day.

    139. orri says:

      I’m almost wondering if there’s something been cut from the reporting of what Sturgeon said? Perhaps it was “I have every confidence in X …” “… To do the right thing and resign”

      However there’s something I remember from the procedure that might be relevant. It’s that the complainants are free to go to the police at any time. In fact I think the case can’t be referred to the police without their agreement. Need to read the PC’s statement with a fine tooth comb to see if there’s an admission that it was her or her employees that took this to the police. Also it might be considered an insult to the Police to imply that once they have investigated the case any reopening of the internal investigation might find new evidence.

    140. Dorothy Devine says:

      Surely it is a rather desperate attempt to tar Independence supporters with the same violent , yellow vested , gorillas seen on the streets of London , by resurrecting the ‘one egg ‘ incident?

      Right enough , it must have been unpleasant having one squished egg on ones shirt but hardly particularly threatening or even worthy of reporting one might suggest.

      I doubt they will resurrect the scenes from George Square with the Nazi saluting guys and gals on the cenotaph – but there again it was misreported by that ever so trustworthy ,revered the world over BBBC as ‘ clashes between the winners and losers’

      I’m sure we will hear more of the Edinburgh pub visit by one N.Farage, hounded out by nasty Scots but interestingly NOT SNP ones but LABOUR ones.

      It is wearisome to have to put up with continual lies and distortions of the UK media but it is even more disgusting to have to put up with homegrown media ordure.

      I don’t know how long we have to wait to read the circulation figures of the press – they have honed a keen interest in me or rather a keen interest in their demise.

    141. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      https://twitter.com/RobDunsmore/status/1082585174846652416
      How to shite on a Tory from a great hight.

      Have watched this seven times now and it only gets better.

    142. Cyber-Corroboree says:

      Height!

    143. admiral says:

      Well, it’s a funny old world, eh?

      Today’s “newspapers” (sic) – “SNP civil war costing taxpayers £500,000”. You’d almost think, with the uniformity of coverage, that someone is telling them what to write and what editorial line to take. Shurely shome mishtake, Miss Moneypenny?

      Of course, it is the UK CIVIL SERVICE that is costing the taxpayer money, but you will hunt high and low and not find this acknowledged in the “newspapers” (sic).

    144. Nana says:

      https://peterabell.blog/2019/01/08/britnats-say-the-daftest-things/

      Tommy Sheppard MP Newsletter
      https://mailchi.mp/934798352e7a/latest-news-from-tommy-sheppard-mp

      Deirdre Brock says
      I’ve submitted a motion at Westminster to say that @The3Million EU citizens living here shouldn’t have to register and pay to prove they have a right to be here. It will be interesting to see which MPs support it
      https://twitter.com/DeidreBrock/status/1082618144135528448

      https://theferret.scot/italian-arms-firm-ethnic-cleansing-syria-scots-schools/

    145. Nana says:

      https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2019/01/06/are-the-tories-really-saying-people-smugglers-have-a-better-fleet-than-they-can-fund/

      Westminster protests: Free speech requires that we shut down the far-right
      http://archive.vn/5N9tr

      For every farmer that voted leave
      http://archive.vn/fg3q7

      Peter Lilley & Idox again
      Hang on – “So 1.1 million Brexit postal ballots are missing or rejected? The firm handling them has a pro leave former Tory MP as a director” – ?? This looks serious.
      https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1082628148309692418

    146. Bob Mack says:

      Re Alex Salmond,

      According to Civil Service conditions, they cannot be sacked by dissatisfied Ministers. They can only be investigated and sacked by other Senior Civil Servants. Nicola can complain about her inability to work with Ms Evans,but it remains the perogative of the Civil service to remove Ms Evans.

      Case in point when Margaret Beckett tried to clear the civil servants from her Dept.

    147. Nana says:

      https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2019/01/08/10303898/uk-governments-hard-brexit-reach-contingencies-unworkable-0xe2-0x80-cba/

      https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-ruined-transport-dover-traffic-jam-rail-fare-increase/

      http://www.cityam.com/271324/government-dismisses-hopes-new-brexit-deal-fantasy

      Carole Cadwalladr says
      “I’m genuinely troubled & disturbed that we may not have rule of law in Britain with regards to the referendum & I urge you to look into it.” My evidence to the EU Parliament in June. I’m posting it because I’m at a total loss. What on earth *do* we do??
      https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1082731685026902020

    148. Petra says:

      Spot on Bob Mack (12:17am) / Cyber-Corroboree (6:10am). We’re close to getting out of this Union under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership and the last thing that she (we) needs right now is for her to be seen to be siding with Alex hence in effect not considering the plight (or not) of the complainants. Much as I’m sure that she’s extremely unhappy with this situation in totality, and would like to see the back of the duo, she realises that the AS case will have to run its course without any intervention from her right now. And of course Alex will be on top of his case, on top of Police Scotland, without her help. He’s a big boy after all.

      As to you Craig you’ve done your utmost on your own site to undermine Nicola Sturgeon / the SNP at every turn, since you were rejected by the Party and have managed, to my great disappointment, to influence many posters to that effect….. or attract like-minded people, to your site, many of whom seem to live south of the border. Looking to do the same on here?

      Strange that you never seem to take the time to castigate, out, any of the Scottish Unionist politicians / parties on your site (like Stu), which would have helped the Independence cause immensely. I wonder why that would be?

      You’ve also been pushing for Nicola to announce Indyref2 for many months now which, if it had been held already, we would have lost.

      What about using your time, energy and media platform to educate people on the ins and outs of the Civil Service such as who exactly has the power to hire and fire Civil Servants and the repercussions of such. That would be helpful, imo.

    149. Nana says:

      All scot tories voted against their constituents as per usual
      https://twitter.com/80_mcswan/status/1082762099913302016

      https://theferret.scot/cracks-hunterston-reactors/

      Today is another biggish Brexit day, even though all said yesterday that today’s business motion opening BIG Brexit debate is not amendable – because bunch of Tory rebels, led by former attorney general Dominic Grieve (normally sensible), are trying to amend it (see attached)
      https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1082918884888510464

      World Bank warns of ‘darkening skies’ for global economy
      http://archive.vn/nk5Rc

    150. Craig Murray @ 5.38 am.

      Absolutely spot on Craig. Further to that, I fully expect Alex Salmond to be arrested, and charged, probably in the middle of the next Independence Referendum campaign. You know better than most of us that the British State will stop at nothing to prevent us gaining our independence.

    151. Abulhaq says:

      What does all this say about ‘the British’, and I mean the British collectively? A rather sexually immature bunch? Along with their cultural cousins in the US they seem to like nothing more than flashing their juvenile genital obsessions in public. Look, but don’t dare touch! Puritanism Lives!
      Save us from ‘virtuous’ politicians and their social meddling.

    152. Petra says:

      I’ve just received an email from Alex Salmond, as no doubt will everyone who donated to his crowdfunder.

      The following is an extract:

      “Some people are clearly very anxious to remove me now as a political threat which is probably why this is not over. The Daily Record boasted of a “tip off” about me in October 2017. The question is who. Perhaps we are now getting closer to finding out.”

    153. Craig Murray says:

      Petra,

      “Indyref2…which, if it had been held by now, we would have lost”.
      Complete rubbish. The last indyref campaign shifted opinion massively and decisively towards yes. The next campaign will – and would already have done – the same. The reason support is perpetually stuck at 46-7% is that the SNP are not campaigning for Independence.
      The reason the SNP lost ground at the last Westminster general election was their disastrous “Don’t mention Independence” campaign. The consequence is that approx 25% of Independence supporters now intend to vote Labour again (if you don’t believe me on that, ask James Kelly.)
      Your contention that I don’t write criticising unionist politicians is utter mince. Though now I check I haven’t recently written anything critical of any unionist politician at Holyrood itself, but that is just because they are beneath notice. You might as well do a critique of individual cockroaches. I admire the Rev’s cataloguing of their stupidities, but it is dispiriting stuff.
      However I find the notion that supporters of Independence must never criticise the Leader really quite scary. My own opinion is that Nicola has lost focus on Independence, is more interested in gender politics, and in danger of letting our moment slip. Why on earth should I not be allowed to express that? I do not criticise you for expressing the opposite view, to which you are entitled.

    154. Petra says:

      Great links Nana. Skimming through but I’ll delve in later when I have more time. Meanwhile it’s interesting to see that over a million EURef postal votes seem to have disappeared! Now that’ll be a surprise, not, for many Scots.

      ……………….

      “Complete rubbish.”

      It looks as though you have just criticised me Craig. That’s your perogative, of course.

    155. Robert Kerr says:

      Craig Murray may well be correct regarding NS focusing on gender politics.

      I am convinced that the Establishment have spent considerable efforts in analysing NS to find weaknesses to exploit.

    156. Craig Murray says:

      Petra,

      I was disagreeing with what you said – albeit perhaps rather over strongly. I was not denying your right to say it or questioning your good faith.

    157. Al Dossary says:

      The double standards by the media in dealing the our SNP politicians are mind-boggling.

      Paedopiles, abusers (of both male and female genders) and racist xenophobes abound in all the main UK political parties. Janner, Ted Heath, Cyril Smith to name but a few. And don’t even start me about “Miranda” and his felching friend who just so happens to have a villa in Portugal.

      Yet in the “National Interest” these Beasts have been protected. May lost exactly how many paedo dossiers in her time – was it 83? I lost count.

      The gropers and abusers of Westminster. Named and shamed in a document widely known distributed amongst staff – Forgotten about and quietry buried.

      David Icke for years went on about Ted Heath and his dealings with young children. Jerry Sadowiz outed Jimmy Saville in 1984 or so as a kiddy fiddler.

      Cameron sticks his bell-end in a dead pigs mouth and the story disappers almost after a week. Nothing to see here, move along now.

      And in the meantime, the Orange Order leaders from Ireland and Scotland are in London talking to May’s government about their fears over Brexit. This is setting up to be an SNP vs Tory showdown, with the biggest threat to independance being these bigots giving their vote to the Tories.

      https://bit.ly/2Ccbee5

    158. Valerie says:

      @ Robert Kerr

      Pretty sure they have. Trying hard to be a champion for Women’s Rights is rightly, something she feels strongly about. insituations like this, it’s a very narrow tightrope, so it is a weak spot for your opponents.

      The Rape Crisis Centre were quick to tweet yesterday, that the court decision does not relate or diminish the case the two women have.

      I pointed out that the two women had been badly let down by another two women, perhaps pursuing an entirely different agenda.

      That’s the key point Nicola also has on her mind, according to how she responded yesterday.

      When you read the court account from Philip Sim’s excellent Twitter feed from court, the references to “bordering on coaching” are simply extraordinary.

      It’s clear these two civil servants bungled it. For the Scotgov QC to say it was “institutional failure” is also simply extraordinary.

    159. Breeks says:


      dakk says:
      8 January, 2019 at 9:06 pm

      …..I had thought till now that Parliament would still find a way to cancel or delay Brexit,but now I’m beginning to believe I will no longer be an EU citizen come April.

      There is neither the will, nor time, to halt Brexit through Westminster. The Westminster Parliament has shown every inclination that No Brexit is not an option, and from the EU perspective, with EU elections looming in May, there is no enthusiasm for yet another round of forlorn negotiations with a delusional imbecile Nation determined to self harm.

      It looks very bleak indeed. There isn’t time for Westminster process to legislate the revoking of Article 50, and the EU will not extend the deadline, at least not without a feasible and viable prospect of a No Brexit.

      The only way I see to save Scotland from Brexit is to attack the Constitutional legitimacy of Westminster forcing through Brexit contrary to the will of the sovereign people of Scotland.

      Unfortunately, we seem to have in Holyrood a Scottish Government paralysed by a deeply held conviction that it cannot act in any capacity outside the umbrella of Devolved responsibility. Every action or inaction is predicated by the belief that our 2014 No Vote laid Scotland’s Sovereignty at the feet of Westminster, and that situation can only be reversed by an unequivocal, and I fear overly simplistic, YES vote in some future referendum. It’s not quite bunny in the headlights death grip yet, but the car is not slowing down.

      The SNP seems constrained by a belief that Scotland’s Constitutional safeguards and protections are off limits to it. We can all see the powers exist, we know they are real, but they are trapped behind a glass screen and Westminster has the only key.

      Unless that scenario changes, and changes fast, you’re absolutely correct Dakk. Wave goodbye to your European Citizenship, and make ready to wake up in a world where Scotland’s interests and integrity will be systematically broken up and coordinated resistance crushed and dispersed to the four winds.

      There is no time for a Scottish IndyRef before March. There is no time for any democratic “get out”.

      The ONLY chance I see to save our Nation from Brexit is a full frontal assault on the Constitutional, make that unconstitutional integrity of Westminster’s capacity to sweep aside the sovereign ramifications of Scotland’s unequivocal rejection of Brexit.

      We Scots must alter Europe’s perspective that Brexit is the settled will of the UK democratic majority, and make sure the EU understands Brexit for Scotland is an act of colonial, anti-democratic subjugation contrary to International Law and the Treaty of UK Union itself. That IS an issue inside their jurisdiction, but ONLY until 29th March. After that, the EU has no interests in the internal affairs of the UK.

      If our Holyrood Government chokes at the idea of a Constitutional / Legislative carrying Scotland to sovereign Independence, then ok, we can steady the pace a little and leave the coup de grace for the Union to a democratic mandate that is yet to be won, but we MUST, we ABSOLUTELY MUST make safe the Legal Personality of Scotland’s Sovereign principle.

      I believe we could bring down the Treaty of Union by Legal Constitutional challenge, but if too many lack the stomach for that, then ok. Take one step back. I say we invite the ECJ to examine the legitimacy of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty by inviting the ECJ to elaborate on it’s recent adjudication that revocation of Article 50 is a sovereign prerogative.

      If it rules that Scotland CAN cite competent Constitutional Sovereignty, underpinned by democratic mandate, to invalidate Westminster’s submission of Article 50 as ultra vires, since Westminster has exceeded its Constitutional authority, then Westminster CANNOT lawfully force Scotland out of Europe. We are safe. We are in limbo, but safe limbo.

      In those circumstances, the UK would still exist, at least insofar as it already exists as a discredited and incompetent treaty already on death row for any number of historic breaches, but the Union would be hanging by the merest thread, and I see no possibility whatsoever of that thread surviving Westminster’s fanatical determination to exit Europe.

      Please Joanna Cherry, please Alyn Smith, go back to the ECJ with all possible urgency and seek their authoritative confirmation that Scotland has both the Constitutional legitimacy and democratic mandate to revoke Article 50 unilaterally. We can reserve the right not to go ahead and do it, but please, please, please, make safe and make respected, Scotland’s sovereign competence and legal personality.

      It seems such a small and obvious step to take, but it changes everything in a single instant. But do it now. The time left is desperately short.

    160. Ken500 says:

      Craig Murray deletes and banns.

      So much for free speech, His.

      He never stops complaining about how he was dumped and sacked,illegally but expects the Scottish Gov to illegally dump and sack others without the authority to do so. There are other means and ways. Does Craig Murray get a British Gov ex employee pension? They often get a pension when they leave the service.

      Many people, including SNP members, contributed to his fund when the unionists tried to ruin him, and would do so again. He should be more generous in his criticism. Stop damaging the Independence movement because he would not stand in line. There are many roles people can play in branches and other offices in the YES movement without being a candidate or elected member. Just as important. Then trying to damage the YES movement with snidiness at every opportunity.

      Craig Murray can make a good living out of some of the through investigations and his contacts.etc. Really important. His investigations are exemplary. A great contribution. Why not get on with that, instead of the constant criticism of the SNP when he is no longer a member. He torn up his membership card very publically for cheap publicity. No man is an island. There are many ways and methods to approach problems and situations.

      Why no concentrate on the things he is so good at to help the movement, There are many roles and ways to do that. Instead of looking on ways to start a confrontation. Within the movement, even not deliberately. Proving why the right decision was made. He was not selected as a candidate by the SNP/members? Not able to stand in line. Concentrate on what they are good at. It will win more kudos.

      The movement is not bigger than one person. Even Alex Salmond know that and was is willing to step aside. Haste ye back great person . Another important contribution showing the malicious unionists action as they attempt to bring Scotland down and ruin the world economy.

      Another one down, another one hits the dust. Deans showed their hand and overstepped the mark and will pay for it with public humiliation and lose of reputation. Her career in tatters. Behaving illegally and with malice, trying to take down Alex. He is fit for them.

      He will not be finished yet. Watch out Clegg and the Daily Record. They will pay for it. The malicious illegal operation. Did they bribe public officials. Backhanders. Gerrymandering an illegal act. Low life Labourites destroying the world,

      Mundell is building an empire wasting £Millions of pen pushers. While the Tories are sanctionig and killing people. Ruining the economy. Canapés and champagne at the Scottish propaganda office. The wee sleekit beastie being paid £Millions for services rendered to the British State destroying the world.

    161. Nana says:

      Once more for the hard of hearing
      “when we get to the end of this phase of the Brexit process”
      https://twitter.com/ScoPoliticsNews/status/1082601968063954944

      https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/01/09/is-this-an-mi5-civil-service-opportunistic-strike-on-alex-salmond-and-through-him-on-the-snp-and-independence-movement/

      A UK govt can help destroy a country and it doesn’t get reported.
      https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/1082733740323938304

      With the Brexit debate returning to Parliament today, let’s go back to basics and explore the facts, key issues, and questions that should be raised in the coming days. Thread… 1/
      https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1082922624232144897

    162. winifred mccartney says:

      Is it just me or is it a disgrace that the bbc news reports on radio Scotland this morning 7am, 8am, 9am did not mention at all what had happened yesterday regarding Alex Salmond and the Scottish Govt. civil service. You can rest assured if this hearing had gone the other way it would be plastered all over the news. BBC blatantly biased and corrupt. Everything else reported had happened yesterday but this was not important enough to report???

    163. Pogmothon says:

      They (the (un)-civil servants MUST NOT be sacked, or allowed to slip away by quite resignation or transfer/promotion. They must be kept in house (possibly on “sleeping leave” with a more competent individual actually performing the function) until full criminal investigations and or prosecutions of these individuals have concluded. Only then should they be dealt with publicly. Based on the currently available information of this situation that would include dismissal with NO golden hand shake or financial benefit of any kind including the index linked civil service pension.

    164. Breeks says:


      Nana says:
      9 January, 2019 at 9:41 am
      Once more for the hard of hearing
      “when we get to the end of this phase of the Brexit process”

      I hear it Nana, loud and clear. What troubles me is the end of the Brexit process coinciding with the end of ECJ jurisdiction and EU Citizenship.

      What good is a life jacket after we are drowned?

    165. admiral says:

      Nicola v Alex
      SNP Civil War

      Folks, this is straight out of the Brit Imperialist play book for maintaining control – divide and conquer! Don’t get caught up playing along.

    166. jfngw says:

      My suspicion is the Salmond case will end up with the statement ‘there is not enough evidence to bring a prosecution’, this is what I call the nudge-nudge outcome. It allows the press to use this statement in perpetuity, actually worse than a not guilty verdict.

    167. Ken500 says:

      The time is not desperately short. Just let the unionists destroy themselves. People can still vote for Independence at any time, They can vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Ibdependence at any time. The best time to call it is when it can be won. Not in the middle of the unionist destroying themselves. Just let them get on with it. Then see how the land lies. Then step over them and out the door. They will not have the energy to protest. There will still have to be negotiation. Just keep the line. Keep right on to the end of the line. Keep right on to the end.

      Things will collapse shortly. Then Scotland could hold the balance of power. An important position for negotiations. If people vote for it. It is not avantageous to hold a GE, EURef and an IndyRef all at the same time, For obvious reasons. The right timing, the funding and the support. Prioritise. Get one out of the way and move in to the next. Or people will not vote they will just get fed up with it. That happened already at the last GE.

      All the demographics point to support increasing. As the elderly keel over and the young ones come on board. 2/3% a year. What is needed. The Tories will never be able to come out of the EU. They have been trying for forty years and not succeeded, Demographics show EU support is increasing. The young one support it. Same difference. The elderly keel over and the young ones come on board. Increased support 2/3% a year just what is needed.

      Let the unionist Parties make a fool of themselves. Then strike at the right time. A great opportunity. Clear the mess and get the message out. When it can be won. Otherwise it is a waste of time. It is still the same message just convert one person. Independence is won.

    168. galamcennalath says:

      Al Dossary says:

      This is setting up to be an SNP vs Tory showdown, with the biggest threat to independance being these bigots giving their vote to the Tories.

      … or perhaps that clarity could be catalyst which delivers independence.

      Every analysis I’ve seen puts a ceiling on the hard core BritNattery in Scotland of 30%.

      The other 70% are persuadable that Indy offers a fairer and safer future than staying in the UK.

      If the choice is crystal clearly between two options, because devolution no longer offers a third viable middle ground, then it becomes ‘make they’re mind up time’. Indy or a far right future under the OO/Tories/London.

    169. Nana says:

      We are questioning the Minister responsible for no deal preparations this morning. Watch live from 9.15
      https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/600a24d2-cf7f-4b34-b0dc-a19debb2cac7

      A disgraceful performance so far. For example he has just claimed that extra police for Northern Ireland are “for the marching season”. He’s making the fatal assumption of assuming we are as stupid and uncaring as he is
      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1082933472795205632

    170. Ken500 says:

      M15/CIA strategy throughout the world. The Cop could be an M15 agent/spy drafted in quite easily. A masonic. Or just plain stupid conceited ignorance and arrogance. .The usual total farcical incompetence, Not succeeded.

      The Tories are affa quiet and have been previously. Shows they are behind it? Or just hiding as usual from the facts.

      A Westminster MP gets called a Nazi. Thee are complains to the Police and outrage in the HoC.

      The same people/members of HoC have been calling the SNP and Independence supporters Nazis for years. In fact a paper in Scotland just published such a suggestion in their front page, while using comments from a manipulated man of faith to tell lies. Total hypocrites.

    171. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      My suspicion is the Salmond case will end up with the statement ‘there is not enough evidence to bring a prosecution’

      Me too.

      And what of the complainants in all this? Their claims must be fully and properly dealt with. That certainly hasn’t happened so far. It has been hijacked for political purposes.

      Hijacking of serious complaints, initiated by dubious civil service behaviour and leaks to the media, is in itself very serious. That too needs dealt with robustly.

      The worst scenario for all individuals and politics in general is that this just withers away slowly with no actual resolution.

    172. jfngw says:

      It definitely looks at present the only outcome for the EU is the unlikely May’s deal or no deal. if this is the case I’m not sure what all the posturing about Scottish sovereignty at WM was if nothing is going to be done done to honour the Scots sovereign vote to remain in the EU. In fact it is the only path I can see to scupper both the deals on offer. I have no wish to stop England leaving the EU if it so wishes, I just don’t want to be dragged out with them.

      Of course when WM says it is a partnership of equals they don’t actually mean both countries, it’s weasel words. They mean you as an individual, hence England being 90% of the union of England/Scotland it actual is just saying you will do as we tell you. Because at heart they believe they own Scotland and it is a sub region of England.

    173. CameronB Brodie says:

      re. Monica Lennon protecting her ‘career’. As she comes from a town planning background, she will no doubt be aware of the “Right to Development” and its’ global significance. It would appear then, that Monica Lennon places more value on her career/British nationalism, than on respecting the international rule of law and supporting the principle of universal human rights. She’s a disgrace, IMHO.

      The British state has an international duty to make conditions favourable to Scotland choosing independence, “States have the primary responsibility for the creation of national and international conditions favourable to the realization of the right to development”.

      The Right to Development at a glance

      What is the Right to Development?
      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      Sources for the Right to Development

      The right to development was proclaimed in the Declaration on the Right to Development, adopted in 1986 by the United Nations General Assembly (GA) in its resolution 41/128. This right is also recognized in the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights and the Arab Charter on Human Rights and re-affirmed in several instruments including the 1992 Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, the 1993 Vienna
      Declaration and Programme of Action, the Millennium Declaration, the 2002 Monterrey Consensus, the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document and the 2007 Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

      Duty bearers for the Right to Development
      Under the Declaration, “States have the primary responsibility for the creation of national and international conditions favourable to the realization of the right to development” (Article 3). According to the high-level task force on the implementation of the right to development “the responsibility for the creation of this enabling environment encompasses three main levels: (a) States acting collectively in global and regional partnerships (second preambular paragraph and Article 3); (b) States acting individually as they adopt and implement policies that affect persons not strictly within their jurisdiction (Article 4); and (c) States acting individually as they formulate national development policies and programmes affecting persons within their jurisdiction
      (Article 2).”1

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    174. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      Craig Murray: “I find the notion that supporters of independence must never criticise the leader really quite scary.”

      It’s not really that scary, Craig; just a transparent attempt to repel. Mark the most vehement protectors of Her dignity as something small, slimy and up to no good. There’s probably only a handful of of these malformed nutters about, but the noise they make is deafening. Like the chimp enclosure at the zoo. It’s really funny.

      Watch for the reaction to this. *rubs hands*

    175. jfngw says:

      I’m starting to believe that most editorials in the papers about Scotland are generated by bot accounts. Why else would they just regurgitate the same fake news you can see on the twitter bot accounts.

    176. Cubby says:

      Robert Kerr @9.19am

      I agree. I don’t think there is much doubt that this has been a carefully orchestrated Britnat plot.

      It shows you what the independence movement is up against. Britnats in all areas of Scottish society hate the independence movement that much they will lie, deceive and collude with Britnat politicians and Britnat media.

      I suspect that Mckinnon and Evans will both move on to London based jobs in the near future now that they have down the dirty deed. The two complainants may already have moved on to London.

      Is Mundell behind this? I don’t think he is smart enough or has the skills to manage it. The Carmichael stunt is more his level of smear.

    177. Proud Cybernat says:

      ‘there is not enough evidence to bring a prosecution’, this is what I call the nudge-nudge outcome. It allows the press to use this statement in perpetuity, actually worse than a not guilty verdict.

      Seems this was the plan all along. IMO, they never intended that the complainants would ever have to explain what happened to a court – the case would (ahem) ‘collapse’ before they were ever called.

      But the damage is done. The bad smell lingers on. Job done.

      Sleekit gits.

    178. Giving Goose says:

      Some things that needs to be borne in mind regarding Salmondgate and the debates taking place around it.

      The English Government will attempt to undermine the legitimate Scottish Government.

      Any discussion should reflect this use of language and identity of the protagonists. My use of “English Government” is quite deliberate as it accurately reflects and frames the present situation. This needs to enter the lexicon of Independence supporters. It is English Government against Scottish Government.

      This is entirely correct because, e.g. Scotland cannot order MI5 to play dirty tricks against England with the intent of undermining and weakening Teresa May’s government, but the English Government do this to Scotland.

      Therefore by extension and sense, British Nationalist/Unionist politicians/journalists/apologists in Scotland are working for the English Government against the Scottish Government and the people of Scotland. This needs to be couched in these terms.

      Attacks on Scottish Independence by British Nationalists are heavily personalised. Attacks are centred around individuals. This is a typical dirty tricks tactic and can be easily turned around to the advantage of the Independence debate. When e.g. Salmond, Sturgeon or Cherry is brought into the conversation then engage with the personalised attack by adding Qualities to the named individual e.g. “Sturgeon, who is working for better jobs, a better health service and better education.”
      Or “Cherry, who wants Scottish children to grow up in a country free of corruption and where everyone can have a roof over their heads without being thrown out on the street.”

      Etc etc

    179. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Can we all calm down.

      All this has nothing to do with the overwhelming case for indpendence.

      Making comment on this distraction merely allows it to be news.

    180. Cubby says:

      Kevin McKenna – Today’s National

      Headline: Sky – High Backing for Billy

      This is the sort of drivel that puts me off buying the National. ” I sincerely hope the bosses at Glasgow airport heed the public mood throughout the city and rename it for Billy Connolly.”

      He provides no evidence for his assertion that there is sky high backing for the airport being renamed after big banana boots man. McKenna ‘s personal wish masquerading as backing by the whole city. This is the type of journalism I have come to expect from the Britnat media and come to hate. Opinion masquerading as fact.

      His only argument is that the new Glasgow hospital was named after the the queen with few dissenting voices. Again an assertion with no evidence.

      I don’t want the airport named after banana boots man but I would not suppose I speak for the city of Glasgow with no evidence to support it.

      An old style Labour journalist stuck in his old style Labour approach.

      Banana boots man is full of the cringe.

    181. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      “indEpendence” of course

    182. Nana says:

      BREAKING: John Bercow has selected the Grieve amendment. Prepare for fireworks.
      https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1082952404318986240

      Delighted to advise that the Speaker has selected this amendment for debate soon after #PMQs. We’ve got the U.K. Govt on the run
      https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1082953374436392960

    183. Robert Kerr says:

      Alex is man enough to take them all on.

      “You tried to smear me! Thats what you do! The dogs in the street know that!”

      This shall run on for ever and a day.

    184. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat@10.44pm

      I agree with your post.

      However, I do not agree with you posting a list of potential Britnats, especially with me on it. Now you can keep on being rude and ignoring me but this lack of respect will soon be reciprocated. I offered you a genuine opportunity to “eyeball me” which you ignored.

    185. Gerry says:

      @nana 1058

      PMQs could be interesting. The ERG group are apparently furious with Bercow.

    186. Nana says:

      It’s a Tory civil war Gerry 🙂

      https://twitter.com/CaledoniaLad/status/1082760110718550018

      Some more links

      May tries to woo the DUP as meaningful vote debate restarts
      http://archive.vn/sqMDG

      How to force feed the people a pile of crap by kicking the can till the end of March.
      http://archive.vn/Fplze

      Theresa May’s number two, David Lidington the Minister for the Cabinet Office charged the taxpayer nearly £1,300 for his dry cleaning and claimed for toothpaste, shower gel, body spray & vitamin supplements on his second home allowance in his MPs.
      https://twitter.com/shahil95/status/1082899668521103361

      Remember they have voted to keep their crimes hidden from taxpayers
      https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/proposal-to-give-mps-anonymity-over-scandals-looks-like-attempt-to-cover-up-misdoings-says-standards-committee-chairman/

    187. Nana says:

      I replied to you Gerry, comment in moderation? Could be a banned word which I failed to spot.

      Four more links added so check back later.

    188. Terençe callachan says:

      Nicola Sturgeon is doing a fantastic and very efficient job.
      Bear in mind that holyrood was put together by Westminster the rule book is one written by Westminster and you can be assured that it will always give Westminster the final say, that is ,until Scotland breaks free and becomes independent when it will write its own rule book free from Westminster control.
      Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond are most definitely on the same side they support each other but nevertheless have to abide by the holyrood rule book and that is now being described as an SNP civil war by the british media even though Alex Salmond is no longer a member of the SNP, he
      is clever he knew this would happen and resigned his SNP membership because of it but the British media as we know just lie all the time and write what they want to happen rather than what has happened, they are westminsters propaganda machine.
      Englands Westminster wants to trick you into thinking that you have to choose between Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond, you don’t, I support both, they are both admirable and effective politicians we are very very lucky .
      Englands Westminster wants to trick you into thinking that this whole episode has been the SNP against Alex Salmond but we know that when they refer to the Scottish government it is Scottish office run and controlled by Westminster civil servants that they are referring to and not holyrood politicians.
      It’s all a trick trying to confuse Scottish people by repeatedly referring to these two completely different institutions as the Scottish government

      “HOLYROOD SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT ”
      and
      “Office of the Secretary of State for Scotland” ( previously called the Scottish office)

      It’s a particularly good trick when you want to blame the wrong one for something

      Stick together that is what we have to do, shout our support for Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP as loud and clear as possible ,we support them all, we support Scottish independence.
      We know that Englands Westminster and its propaganda machine which includes the British newspapers ,The BBC, STV, UK radio stations ,the Labour Party the Conservative party and the liberal democrat party in Scotland both in local authorities and in holyrood parliament are all corrupt and grasping desperately at any opportunity to stop Scottish independence and we know they lie and create poverty and great difficulty for the people of Scotland to reduce their living standards in the hope that they can prey on the strife and weaknesses that causes but this is now a fight for survival, the survival of Scotland the country ,of Scottish people and its traditions and rights.
      Englands Westminster controls our land ,our income ,our business, our taxes, our institutions but they don’t control our people and as long as we have a mind to do so we can take back control of all those things ,it is Scotland that should be taking back control and handling its own affairs.
      Our young people are looking on waiting for us to take this freedom and declare independence and will be ready to do it for us if we fail.
      Englands Westminster is taking its dying breaths and will undoubtedly spew more nastiness in every direction as it withers and dies.
      Roll on Scottish independence .

    189. schrodingers cat says:

      Craig Murray says:
      The last indyref campaign shifted opinion massively and decisively towards yes.
      ——————
      SNP won 45% of the vote in 2011 HE, I see no proof of your statement regarding the opinion polls in the run up to indyref1. It was often quoted at the time by the msm that support for indy was only at 29%, however this was because the first polls included the option of devo max. once the question was settled, the polls consistently showed support for indy at 42-48%. within the margin of error for such polls and the actual result
      —————-

      The next campaign will – and would already have done – the same. The reason support is perpetually stuck at 46-7% is that the SNP are not campaigning for Independence.
      ———————————-

      I see no proof of this either Craig, we campaigned for 3 years,
      SNP won 45% of the vote in 2011 HE, YES 45% in 2014
      ————————–
      The reason the SNP lost ground at the last Westminster general election was their disastrous “Don’t mention Independence” campaign.
      —————————————
      You mean the exact same campaign we ran in 2015? by the way, it wasnt the SNP who ran this campaign, it was the unionist who ran with the “Don’t mention anything other than Independence” which gained traction in scotland, they even used this tactic during the council elections
      ————-

      The consequence is that approx 25% of Independence supporters now intend to vote Labour again
      ——————-

      once again, i see no evidence for this, indeed, these are the actual results for slab in the last 2 GE

      2015 GE

      SLAB 707,147 24.3%

      2017 ge

      SLAB 717,007 27.1%
      —————

      I find the notion that supporters of Independence must never criticise the Leader really quite scary.

      ——————–

      The constant MSM snpbad attacks on our movement, the trashing of our MPs and leaders, eg Michelle Thompson and the smear campaign against Alex, the case in point. I dont find it scary, I find it tiresome. if the unionist media, neglect or fail to identify a weakness in the snp strategy, a potential point of attack, somewhere to stick the knife in etc, is it really our job to point this out to them?

      In the interest of fairness, constructive criticism would be welcomed under normal circumstances. but we are not in normal times. such criticism isnt deemed to be a fair or balanced point of view, It is seized upon by the the very same unionist MSM and it just becomes another raindrop in the never ending deluge of snpbad propaganda

      If we had a fair and balanced media and establishment, we would have won our independence years ago.

    190. Terençe callachan says:

      Hey cubby…….keep taking your medicine, hope you get well soon but keep taking that medicine ,you know what happens to you when you don’t .

    191. CameronB Brodie says:

      This isn’t a time for egos. Scottish residents are faced with becoming even more invisible, in terms of legal identity and personality. Without identity, a body can’t claim rights. Without rights, a body is un-free. A slave.

    192. HandandShrimp says:

      So we are in civil war again?. Can someone throw a Tunnocks Tea Cake at someone for me (not so hard as to render it inedible). I can’t be arsed finding out who the sides are much less joining one of them.

      Fake news seems to be a compulsion with the likes of the Times these days. Hard to believe it was once a bench mark of seriousness.

    193. Ken500 says:

      The reason why the SNP won the last GE was because some people are fed up with politics and unionist lies. Do not feed the trolls.

      The Pollsters illegally and maliously use the Polls to influence the vote. They have been censored and fined many times for illegal activities. Getting away with murder. There is more chance sticking the paper tail on a paper donkey, while blindfolded.

      The Times no wonder no one reads it. An echo chamber. A total waste of money, time and paper. Murdoch 81, walks away with £30Billion. Millions have died because of his criminality and lies. He will not even have time to spend it. The migrant canvassing against migrants and migration. Total lying hypocrite,

      May and the Tories are going down. What a complete and utter shambles. A complete time, money wasting mess.

      Get rid of Labour. Take the fight to the Tories and SNP/Independence will win. That is what is happening.

      Every election in Scotland based on different electoral system. Introduced by unionists, illegally without a mandate. To try to give them unfair advantage. To cause trouble and try and ruin the Scottish economy.

      May and the Tories are going down. How low can they go? Into oblivion for 30/40 years. Well deserved.

    194. call me dave says:

      Just for fun I asked my partner in the cafe what she thought the shortbread website top story was.
      1. Salmond….No!
      2. Brexit…..No!
      3. Ah! The trains…No!

      What?

      A very grave story about an Egyptian casing stone. 🙂

      So it goes folks.
      Not even headlining on the ‘politics page’ MSPs discuss budget

      Anyhoo! Tomorrow is another day.

      PS:
      Nana already pointing to a new post.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/

    195. Capella says:

      These #SNPCivilWars work wonders for the SNPs popularity and the demise of the Unionists in Scotland. See Scot Goes Pop latest poll analysis for confirmation.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/01/is-end-nigh-for-ruth-shock-yougov-poll.html

    196. Ken500 says:

      McKenna is a paid agitator. Not worth the paper it is written on. Ignore

    197. call me dave says:

      SNAP!

    198. Capella says:

      🙂

    199. Ken500 says:

      Davidson on QVC no one will buy into it.

      The Tory/unionists now chapping. Not at doors but at oblivion. Liars always get found out. The voters will send them packing.

    200. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@11.34am

      Terry old boy you do not know me and your so called imaginary friend who told you I was a labour activist do not know me. Lies followed by insults – standard Britnat tactics. Britnats have no shame in lying on a public forum. That’s you Terry old boy.

      Tempted to repeat your lies again but I’ll leave it for a future time.

    201. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Cubby

      I see you.

      Sorry pal – not biting.

    202. galamcennalath says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      once again, i see no evidence for this, indeed, these are the actual results for slab in the last 2 GE

      2015 GE

      SLAB 707,147 24.3%

      2017 ge

      SLAB 717,007 27.1%

      I remember an analysis, a poll after 2017, with a nice graphic showing net flows of voters between parties.

      Unfortunately I can’t find it now.

      This showed about 200k 2015 SNP voters moved to Labour. But it also showed 200k moving Labour to Tory. The net result was an apparently static Labour, but that wasn’t what happened according to the questioned sample,

      For me the SNP took a set back in 2017 because the clock turned back and a lot of floating voters did feel Lab at WM was again the best choice. Hopefully this will have reversed.

      The SNP lost almost half a million voters from 2015 to 2017. Most didn’t vote. IMO it was the right time (after a S30 had been requested) to focus on independence. The SNP didn’t and I am certain that’s why folks stayed at home.

    203. Dr Jim says:

      You know how the Tories always win?

      No matter what happens they end up sticking together to win, no matter bad or good decisions they tough it out and they win, no matter how stupidly they behave on the surface underneath they’re planning to win

      Scotland won’t win if we don’t stick together, it’s the reason we never win because there are always moaning faced miseries who want a piece of the action and sew dissent wherever they can whether it’s for their own personal reasons or just because they can

      Right now we have the two best politicians we’ve ever had in Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon NOT fighting with each other because the end result they both want is more important

      But hey, listen to the bloggers and *journalsts* with their dislike of one or the other and let them create the division in our country so that none of us wins, but they’ll be satisfied they’ve made their wee moany faced point and got people to pay attention to them

      Because that’s what they want

    204. frogesque says:

      Independent Nationhood is normal.

      That’s all folks. The end.

    205. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan @11.32am

      “But the British media as we know just lie all the time” well said Terry. You are pretty accomplished at this as well.

      “Stick together that is what we have to do”. Laughable from Terry who comes on Wings making up stories and posting made up anti English figures to create division.

      “Roll on independence”. the best thing you can do for independence is stop posting lies and anti English made up figures. Until then your long post will just be seen as an attempt to re establish your independence credentials for those who have not read your previous nonsense.

    206. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 9 January, 2019 at 9:33 am

      Oh! Here we go – AGAIN.
      ” …
      Unfortunately, we seem to have in Holyrood a Scottish Government paralysed by a deeply held conviction that it cannot act in any capacity outside the umbrella of Devolved responsibility.”

      And not even an, “In my humble opinion”, to soften the intended blow to the only organisation in the entire World that have the slightest chance of ever gaining independence for Scotland. Not to mention that the SNP are the party that has brought Scotland to the point of again becoming an independent kingdom.

      Has anyone got any ideas who it is this, willing or otherwise, tool of the Westminster Establishment expects to gain Scottish independence when he/her/it, (note they all commonly use a nom de guerre), succeed in discouraging voters to trust in Nicola Sturgeon, The Scottish Government and the SNP?

      Anyone fathom out why this band of anti-Nicola/SG/SNP campaigners spend much more of their time on Wings running down the only real hope of gaining independence than they do supporting independence?

      These same people can always be relied upon to jump on any, and every, opportunity to denigrating the leader, party and government chosen by the majority of the voters of Scotland to represent them in both Holyrood and Westminster.

      Do they imagine the majority of Wingers cannot see through their, not very well, hidden agenda?

      They are worse than the Tories for the Tories are mainly up-front with their agenda against Scots voters and Scotland. These people are two faced and dishonest.

      I’ve spent a lifetime debating political issues with honest people who honestly support different political views than my own but you cannot debate or argue with two-faced, dishonest people and Wings has become over populated with such people.

      If they were honest and above board they would have formed a political party that mirrored their views and not made a charade of being honest to goodness independence supporters.

      There are several routes to independence from any empire but only one of them is free of spilt blood. The only, nebulously, laughable thing about this group of numpties is that if they had gained their way during the rise of support for independence then, without doubt, the cause would have ended long ago for nothing sets back the cause like losing referendums or getting an independence supporting drummed out of office.

    207. Proud Cybernat says:

      #snpcivilwar trending on Twitter.

      Major bun fight in streets of Kirkcudbright going on as I write. Two people have been taken to local hospital with cream in their eyes.

      More later.

    208. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat@12.27am

      Fair enough. But I did tell you I don’t bite either.

    209. Arthur Thomson says:

      I made a contribution to Alex’s fighting fund. It was a good investment that Alex will now re-invest on my behalf where it is needed. A win win. I am ready to invest again if and when Alex should call.

    210. jockmcx says:

      point of order

      brexit is driving them mad in the house,right now.

    211. Artyhetty says:

      galamcennalath@12.30

      Not sure what the figs were re voting in 2017 in Scotland, but, Labour did all they could to muster their followers to vote for the Tories to keep the SNP out! It was vote for anyone or anything, but just stop that nasty SNP.

      DR.Jim@12.39

      Yep the divide and rule has had a bloody good go at conjuring, fabricating and smearing so they can distract from the real facts that Scotalnd is being majorly robbed by the rUK. Scotland is being ridiculed ignored and laughed at, and their democratically elected SNP MP’s told to ‘shut up’, and called a ‘piece of shit’!. The Tory MP’s acting on their London masters’ orders, just voted for a no deal Brexit. They are liars and cheats!

      They are though emboldened, and will dine out richly on this fabricated accusation against Alex Salmond. It stinks to high heaven from start to finish and it’s not rocket science to see how this plot was very well planned.

      It’s takes a certain level of conniving to orchestrate that type of smear, but it’s not unheard of to take a (democratically elected ) government down. You undermine their integrity big time, because people don’t like people who do bad things, ( unless they are Tory or red Tory)and even if they don’t do the bad things the smear sticks.

      Classic tactic. What’s next.

    212. Abulhaq says:

      Even the most fundamentalist of Scottish unionists must by now realise how irrelevant Scotland has become in the tawdry, superannuated spectacle that is British politics. For nationalists if the last three years of Brexiting proves anything it is that time has been squandered by the supposed party of independence on fruitless initiatives which have simply sunk Scotland more deeply out of sight in the Westminster swamp.
      This queasy, default strategy of appeasement to the political culture of the British state must end. England and its politician should have no say in Scotland’s future. If Scots are not to be the useful idiots of the anglocentric British state for another 300 years the SNP has got to shape up, and actually draw some blood.

    213. galamcennalath says:

      Artyhetty says:

      Labour did all they could to muster their followers to vote for the Tories to keep the SNP out

      They certainly did in our constituency. There was absolutely no presence and paper candidate.

      I think they did this quite intentionally where Tories were in a position to challenge. It worked and we got Luke Graham … a total chocolate teapot, carrying a carpet bag while residing in England with a local address of convenience.

      Elsewhere, probably where Labour stood a chance and did indeed take seats, they put up more of a fight and attracted votes from the SNP.

      However, did they get anything back from the Tories for ‘services rendered’ for their Union? I.e. Did Tories stand back anywhere to allow their votes to bleed to Labour? My estimation – nae chance!

      There may be a difference in priorities between Lab and Tory. This is just a theory but I suspect when push comes to shove and stakes are high – Labour will but Union before party. Conversely, I think there is a lot of evidence that the a lot of Tories will put party first, England second, and their Union trailing.

    214. Breeks says:


      Robert Peffers says:
      9 January, 2019 at 12:42 pm
      @Breeks says: 9 January, 2019 at 9:33 am

      Mr Peffers I greatly respect your knowledge, but sadly not your judgement.

      Perhaps if you had more of the latter, you’d perhaps have secured more meaningful register and purchase with the former, and Scotland might have fought for and secured Legal Personality decades ago, perhaps even right from the outset of our Devolved Parliament. Had that been the case, we might never have found ourselves in this desperate Brexit situation to begin with.

      You pass the theory test with flying colours, but the practical still needs work.

    215. admiral says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      9 January, 2019 at 12:44 pm
      #snpcivilwar trending on Twitter.
      Major bun fight in streets of Kirkcudbright going on as I write. Two people have been taken to local hospital with cream in their eyes.
      More later.

      Meanwhile the real political civil war continues unabated at Westminster, as the Tories fight each other tooth and nail over brexit.

    216. r esquierdo says:

      David Clegg committed an offence by printing the vow during Purdah I asked Mr Salmond to his face why police Scotland did not charge Clegg.
      Had Clegg been charged in 2014 he would have thought long and hard about his position in this situation This time Clegg will be interviewed by police Scotland as they try to establish who leaked the claimants statement. Salmond himself will sue Clegg this time that looks certain.

    217. Macart says:

      Heh. Civil war again is it? They really do think folk button up the back. Tbf I’m still carrying a vicious looking custard pie wound from the last round. 😀

      Alex Salmond was the First Minister. Nicola Sturgeon is the First Minister. So long as the SNP govern as competently as they have in the past eleven years, then they’ll have my vote. Not complicated.

      On independence? I think yer average meeja type missed the memo on the whole idea of any party, no party and all points of the compass. As a movement, those who believe in self government don’t have to get along on any point of party policy, or constitutional strategy. Fact is, our diversity pretty much makes that a racing certainty. 😀 LOL

      There’ll be handbags at ten paces and custard pies flying all over the place at the best of times. I’d reckon even within the party of government. There’s also going to be errors aplenty and missed opportunities for this,that and the other by the current Scotgov I’d guess. They’re human. They make mistakes. And so do we.

      But y’know whit? My belief that Scotland should be a normal self governing nation doesn’t rely on party politics. Never did and never will. It’ll be there whether the current cunning strategy (whatever it might be) happens or not. Works or not. My vote will always be for competent, caring government and independence.

      Something else worth a thought. Most of us won’t get anywhere near any of the pointy end politics. We’re busy being responsible for our own lives and those we care for. Some of the the more astute and experienced party political anoraks on threads need to take this on board. Not all of us are cut out for politics. We’re not stupid, but politics isn’t our normal bag. Some folk have only just rediscovered they have a stake in their governance and a say. Mmmkay?

      It’s easier to go forward as friends and celebrate our differences you’d think.

    218. jockmcx says:

      more than an hour of bonkers tories attacking the speaker
      in the house

    219. Bob Mack says:

      Tory shouts at John Berrow. ” you are not impartial,we have all seen you driving a car with remain stickers”

      Berrow states that is his wife’s car and he does not treat her like a chattel,as she has her own mind”

      Tories shut up

    220. Dr Jim says:

      We need a new striker on because we’re not losing?

      I’m the worlds greatest football authority critic and commentator from my living room couch
      Can’t play the game worth spit, never could but boy do I know everything about it and how it should be played, does that qualify me for being a football manager, of course not and I would be laughed at by those who already do the job

      I’m the same with politics, what a genius I think to myself

      Beware the folk online every five minutes bumping their gums about knowing more than the people who do the job
      *journalists* and bloggers aren’t in the job they’re armchair football managers like me

      People who can, do
      People who can’t do, teach
      People who can’t teach, criticise

    221. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Abulhaq 1:05pm

      Interesting choice of words in yer post: “fundamentalist”, “anglocentric”, “appeasement”, “blood”.

      You’re fooling few here.

    222. Pete Barton says:

      Whilst we discuss the ‘sex scandal’ and the ramifications of a ‘divided’ scottish government, pause and think over this.

      ‘Civil war’ in SNP surfaced a month or two ago; a host of people laughed it off,unsurprisingly.

      Timing of these coordinated media reports suggest a deeper theme.

      Subliminal messages can be hard to see at first.

      We are nearing the point at which Scotland may be asked again to choose.

      The civil war headline subtly suggests not just a messed up leadership issue at SNP government level, but plants the message associating independence with.. civil war.

      So while we can laugh at this attempt to divide and rule, how many non independence supporters have a deeper fear brought to mind?

      I smell SIU.

      Remember, there are a number of NI ex military and government experienced people advising intelligence agencies.

      They are using the connection to insinuate what could happen should a choice of our peoples here cause UK dissolution.

    223. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Is it just me, or does this look like a tory ploy to force an attempted extension to Article 50, and get the government off the hook next week (when treezas deal is rejected) by offering a ‘3rd way’ rather than a default ‘no deal’ ?” said @geo

      “MP Sir Edward Leigh just after the gov defeat in HoC.
      His take was that since Article 50 was passed and is Primary legislation,even if Parliament rejects May’s deal. Brexit will still go through as No Deal default on March 29.” said @dakk.

      I personally think yesterday’s defeat of the Government regarding Budget spending in the event of No Deal Brexit just made a National State of Emergency and an Emergency Powers Act more likely.

      The excuse being that the vote yesterday gives the Westminster Government no option and it’s all the fault of Yvette Cooper et al.

    224. Marie Clark says:

      Faisal Islam reporting that government has been defeated again, 2nd time in two days.

      Dominic Greives amendment Ayes 308 Noes 297. Government must come back with plan B if May is defeated instead of 21 plus seven.

    225. Marie Clark says:

      Doh government must come back with plan B in three days, not 21.

    226. Cactus says:

      Et now for something completely different:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW_R760RG-A

      They’re going “coo-coo” right NOW.

      Whit ah mess they’ve made.

      🙂

    227. call me dave says:

      Hi Cactus good to hear from you again.

      I’ll be happier when we’re independent 🙂

    228. schrodingers cat says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      #snpcivilwar trending on Twitter.
      Major bun fight in streets of Kirkcudbright going on as I write. Two people have been taken to local hospital with cream in their eyes.
      More later.

      up date, snp member electrocuted, he stood on a scone and a current went up his leg
      More later.

    229. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Berrow states that is his wife’s car and he does not treat her like a chattel,as she has her own mind”

      Looks like Berco might be a prospect for conversion to the indy cause. 🙂

    230. yesindyref2 says:

      @Craig Murray “Complete rubbish.

      Manners please. What you meant to say was “My opinion is different”.

      Didn’t you?

    231. yesindyref2 says:

      Right, I see Petra replied and was replied to. Referencing another comment, I do think Sturgeon has a weakness in that she is too much into gender politics, as I basically said in my previous longer posting about this.

    232. ronnie anderson says:

      Cactus dont feed that Giraffe chewing gum , git doon tae kirkcubry an pick up ah load of buns fur yer tall freind .

    233. frogesque says:

      Took a little time out today to fly a flag over a motorway ( actually a dual carriageway but who’s counting?).

      Feeling much better, cold day, bright sun and many flashes, waves and beeps. One step at a time but we are winning.

      Don’t forget Parly demo next Thursday, 17th. 11.00 – 3.00. Be there if you can. Good excuse for us oldies to exercise the stiff joints and get the lungs working.

      Independent Nationhood is normal!

    234. Thepnr says:

      @Proud Cybernat 2:17pm

      I see them too. Not really difficult to miss are they?

    235. Terence callachan says:

      Hey cubby……get well soon, keep taking the tablets ,takes a while for them to take effect

    236. Ealasaid says:

      @frogesque 4:43

      What is this parly demo next Thursday please?

    237. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Thepnr
      “I see them too. Not really difficult to miss are they?”

      Not difficult to miss at all.

      When playing poker (and I do from time to time), many folks at the table have ‘tells’ that they don’t even know they have and which effectively betrays their ‘game’. The trolls on Wings also have ‘tells’ that betray their ‘games’, that gives them away. But I won’t be telling them what their ‘tells’ are. It’s useful to me and helps keep me a step ahead of them. I’m sure you’ve probably spotted some yourself. 😉

    238. Thepnr says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      Like you I’ve played a bit of poker, I even bought books and read them as I was playing for money. So yes your analogy sounds about right to me in that there are “tells” that can be seen.

      There’s also just gut feeling and whether you have ever played poker or not sometimes you just know whether “that person” is genuine or not. Most people do this instinctively and that’s why the trolls stick out on here.

    239. Cubby says:

      Terence Callachan@9.21 pm

      Pity Terry old boy there are no pills to prevent compulsive lying. If there were you should be straight down to your nearest pharmacist.

    240. Cubby says:

      Proud Cybernat @10.18 pm

      It’s a pity you never took up my invitation to eyeball me at the counting house. It would have been interesting to see you using your poker skills. Let me know if you change your mind. I really don’t like being on a list.

    241. Thepnr says:

      Hi Cubby

      This article is well dead now but do you remember me apologising to you for simply saying cubbyland in one of my responses to you?

      You replied that you thought I was a gentle man for doing so well I think it’s about time you laid off Proud Cybernat. Forget the list as it doesn’t exist other than in your imagination, it’s obvious what he was seeking and that’s information.

      It was cackhanded and I’m sure he himself knows that now, why you continue to make it a big deal is only making you look bad in my ayes at least.

      Did you ever see or hear of all the stickers that made there way around the whole country saying “Misreporting Scotland” well that was all the work of Proud Cybernat.

      Take a deep breath Pheww and choose your targets carefully.

      I apologised to you for simply saying Cubbyland and I

    242. Thepnr says:

      …and I got cut off.

      See you at the Counting House in Glasgow 2nd March when we have a Wings meet up I hope,

    243. yesindyref2 says:

      Curiously I was looking at the website yesterday, and the list of names.

      https://informscotland.com/

    244. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      Can someone lift the audio of interview with Margaret Beckett regarding John Bercows decision to allow the vote yesterday BBC R4 at 07:45hrs

      If you listen mentally substitute:

      Bercow with Ken Macintosh

      Speaker with Presiding Officer

      And then think about the Westminster Governments gazzumping of the Scottish Governments EU Continuity Bill

      BritNat Broadcasting Corporation really don’t do self awareness, do they?

    245. Cubby says:

      Thepnr@2.11 pm

      I have no doubt that PC is an independence supporter who contributes immensely and that is to his immense credit. Your points are well made.

      I would point out that I was at last years poorly attended demo outside Propaganda Quay. As I believe the media is the biggest problem then the turn out was disappointing. But full marks to PC for his work in this area.

      I will commit to drop the matter(the list) and if PC is reading this then apologises if you think I gave you too hard a time over the matter.

      I have noted the 2nd March and may well attend if no other commitments. Otherwise if there are other AUOB marches I will attempt to introduce myself at the Wings stall. Ronnie Anderson did sell me my mug at Bannockburn but I did not see the need at the time to say who I was – seemed too self important to do so. At Glasgow there was a massive queue. My priority will always be attending the marches over social occasions.

    246. Cubby says:

      Thepnr @2.11am error previous post.



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top