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A self-fulfilling prophecy

Posted on July 17, 2014 by

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    1. 17 07 14 14:59

      A self-fulfilling prophecy | Scottish Independence News

    292 to “A self-fulfilling prophecy”

    1. The Scotswoman says:

      Kerry Gill- Hail and Farewell

    2. cynicalHighlander says:

      Reads like someone is disgusted with themselves for being on the wrong side of the argument.

    3. Fiona says:

      “Proven safety of the United Kingdom”


    4. Seasick Dave says:

      Hi Kerry

      Love you too.

      I’m voting Yes and so is my English wife ๐Ÿ™‚

    5. john allan says:

      Strange as i am English a ex Lib/Dem and voting YES.
      I would say this is yet another lets try to divide and Conquer story.
      my advice to the daily scare monger is shove it up your A***.

    6. Adrian B says:

      We were being told years ago that AlicSammin’s case for separation had hit the rocks and that there would not be a Referendum.

      The same people now realise that there is going to be a Referendum and are not at all happy about the prospects that this entails.

      One side of the debate is happy and outward looking the other side seems to have a rather darker and more sinister view of our future.

    7. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      It is almost as if they are both whistling in the dark and goading us, hoping for a miracle.

      They are beat.

      We will win.

    8. Jeannie says:

      ‘Bye Kerry, missing you already x

    9. Seasick Dave says:

      It would appear that if you are ‘anti-English’ then that is a very bad thing indeed.

      However, if you are ‘anti-foreigner’ then that is a very good thing indeed, especially if you work for the Express or Mail.

      Its a funny old world.

    10. Cath says:

      Oh my. That is a tour de force of telling your readers black is white. It’s a long list of Project Fears “greatest hit” lies, long since debunked by the yes side and forgotten even by most on the no one. It reads like someone who knows his side is beaten and wishes what he’s writing was true. Either that or he’s totally deluded and hopes everyone else is too.

    11. sausage fingered luddite says:

      It’s ok it’s the Express. Like the Mail none of their readers are likely to read this and change their voting intentions. She’s pissing in the wind, to use a colloquialism…

    12. MajorBloodnok says:

      And don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out!

      [NB ‘arse’ is rare patois for ‘arse’]

    13. The Man in the Jar says:

      Aye right! In the event of Yes losing the referendum I’m going to shake hands and congratulate Better Together and their supporters for a fair contest.

      Aye dream on!

    14. donald anderson says:

      Proven whit, where, when, how?

    15. Benjamin Rae says:

      Is he somebody of note or just another internet loudmouth? It’s unpleasant that some on the no side seem keen to stoke acrimony.

    16. Stevie Howard says:

      BT are really starting to sweat. This kind of ranting shows how desperate they are getting.

    17. Black Douglas says:

      Do you think these people(journalists) are trying to convince their readers or themselves, either way they are fooling no-one.

    18. Yes. However, I think what attack there was on an 18 or 19 year old English lad IS WRONG and unjustified, however blown out of proportion (and I can see how the lad himself might feel shaken by it, even if we can see it was all fireworks, no bite).

      Sure criticise and malign the fact Labour HAVE to recruit from the South – I did – and are misguidedly making this one-Britain while it is supposed to be for the people of Scotland (however much we appreciate the Labout biggie we bagged today, from Liverpool).

      I do think it is underhand to recruit (& Pay?) volunteers from furth of Scoltand to canvas – I am not sure about its standing in terms of campaign legislation.

      I think it is risible and worthy therefore of lampooning. but the child himself who volunteered, probably the child of life-long English Labour peeps who bought into New Labour is an ingenue and did not know what he was letting himself. That he tweeted so gaily about the whole jolly whiz shows this.

      The state of the UK is unravelling as poltiical voice rises as it did in the times of Thatcher. It will get dirty and dangerous UK_wide and then there is DRIP. The internet is safer than the police riot shields and horses of the miners strikes or Greenham but we may end up back there. Something possibly even young Harry’s parents do not remember (a time when Gorgeous George was no pro-Catholic and was radical socialist…ah the heady days of Socialist Worker gatherings and Anti-Nazi League initiatives, and phone taps). The worst days of Tory cover-up.

      The boy and his chums do not understand the subsequent Labour betrayal of principles and melding to one with the slick, sleek, crocodile teared Neo COnservatives, where politics became a meta-activity.

      But now in this grass-roots reawakening there ia (non-religious) End-Days atmosphere in the last few weeks taking us back to real engagement. But let’s stop and move the innocent out the way in the stampede, not trample them.

      A question is how innocent or duped by silenced press and creeping establismentarianism are the New Labour acolytes; the Tories just grew new skins and blended in for a while.

    19. TheGreatBaldo says:

      The piece just drips with (unintentional) Comedy Gold …

      My personal favourite line/gag was this one….

      “Alistair Darling, the former Labour chancellor – hardly a man to make up stories

      Or for that matter Expenses claims…honest man is oor Alistair ๐Ÿ˜€ ๐Ÿ˜€

    20. muttley79 says:

      Kerry Gill has reached the same level as Cochers, Brian Wilson, John McTernan etc. They are increasingly angry.

    21. BrianW says:

      I’m confused. For me there is absolutely NO anti-English sentiment, or anti-Welsh sentiment, or anti-Irish sentiment, or anti-Any Nation sentiment.

      I am however, against idiot Journalists writing trashy stories about non-issues in a silly attempt to provoke a reaction.

      What are they going to write about when we do vote Yes. Who will they pick on then?

    22. Lemon says:

      Is this the same Kerry Gill that thought the BBC should be biased against Alex Salmond ?

    23. Nick says:

      Oh I do so love you too!

      Say it again on the 19th of September and I will believe it.

    24. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      As this shit opinion piece is read by a miniscule proportion of scots, and believed by less, its pretty meaningless.
      No independence for the snivelling scotch is the message i take from these london publications.

    25. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Made the mistake of first clicking on the article… then I clicked on Kerry Gill’s name.

      Oh. My. God. It’s like peering into the abyss and seeing it looking back, it really is. It’s like a wander through Dante’s Inferno it’s so unremittingly miserable. I can just about imagine being ushered along the way to the Seventh Circle of Hell led by that eejit.

      I disagree, Muttley79. That pile of steaming sulphurous shite is actually worse than Cochers. Not, perhaps, the first highlighted article… but click on the name in red in the corner.

      I’m just off to rinse my eyes out with some bleach.

    26. galamcennalath says:

      I love the smell of panic in the afternoon.

      They believe they are losing. The rants get worse, what else could explain the increasing hysteria across BT?

    27. Steve Bowers says:

      I think my English wife’s going to be very disappointed that I hate her, we’ve only been married for 22 months, guess I better vote no now

    28. Haggis Hunter says:

      Am voting Yes, so is my foreign wife!
      Our chance to be a European nation, not a down trodden region.
      Its up to us, not the Brit Better Together media

    29. Footsoldier says:

      I do not understand why newspapers continue to print articles like the Daily Express one shown above. Assuming the worst possible projections for Yes, it is still a sizeable potential readership that is being ostracized by such writings which make no attempt at balance.

      Kerry Gill is right in one thing, and I don’t need to wait until the referendum, articles like hers are certainly creating division and consequently I would not dream of buying the Express or any other unbalanced rag.

    30. donald anderson says:

      The Express is not part of the VOLUNTARY press Barons who laugh at the useless Press Complaints Commission who waffle up for them. And this lot have the cheek to complain of “Freedom of the Press”. What Freedom do the rest of us have who do not own the media, unless we can afford to hire very expensive lawyers to deal with their daily lies and British Nationalist Chauvinism?

    31. seanair says:

      sausage fingered luddite
      I’d never heard of Kerry Gill until quite recently when I picked up an Express in a cafe (nothing else to read). I couldn’t believe the vile hatred shown towards the “separatists”, especially AS. Vowed never to pick up an Express again. Never thought for a minute that KG was a woman,which you suggest she is, so I’m even more horrified at the language used if you are correct.
      Express and Mail in competition to see which is the most objectionable paper, but glad to see sales of both are dropping.

    32. macart763m says:

      Proven safety of the United Kingdom? Acrimony?

      Any connection between Kerry Gill and reality is purely coincidental. Who let this buffoon loose with a keyboard?

      When it comes to acrimony though Gill is almost right. I will never forgive either the media or unionist politicians for their actions throughout this campaign. The next door neighbour and extremely odd family member who may vote no from either misplaced loyalty, engendered fear or trusting for whatever reason in Westminster governance I can easily get on with regardless of result.

      Those pieces of ordure who have deliberately set about demonising the independence vote and the Scottish government in full knowledge of the reality though?

      Those individuals I hope shit hedgehogs for the rest of their natural lives.

    33. dmw42 says:

      As my dear old mother put it:

      See yon yin wie the torn face? That’s a naw, that yin.

    34. Dcanmore says:

      It’s like Better Together MPs calling Alex Salmond whatever dictator under the sun then banding together to implement Orwellian surveillance laws…

    35. G H Graham says:

      Kerry gold. And not the butter.

    36. Muscleguy says:

      I’m a Yes voter. Born in Scotland of English parents, my eldest sister was born in Manchester and I’m married to someone born in England. So to be anti-English would be strange to me.

      I grew up in NZ as did my wife with all sorts of people. My Auckland secondary had a large proportion of Maori or Polynesian pupils, to our credit. It was a good school. I can say ‘hello’ in three Pacific languages. Being racist at a school like that was a dangerous undertaking even if I was that way inclined.

      BTW my wife is a No, but I’m working on it. It has not resulted in acrimony and we are still together. Both our kids were born in NZ, so that’s another birth country into the mix. Oh and my English mother was born in Romania.

      Kerry Gill can kiss my multicultural arse.

    37. muttley79 says:

      Kerry Gill is a man as far as I am aware.

    38. Peter Macbeastie says:

      I have completely missed these ‘attacks’ on the English lad. Totally managed to avoid them without even trying.

      Can someone enlighten me on exactly what was said, because if it’s anything like what gets flung at Yes supporters with depressing regularity he might have a case for being upset. I suspect it’s nothing like it.

      Since, I understand, he’s a Labour activist I find the accusations of abuse to be just a little convenient and remarkably quiet from the MSM. Could it possibly be that a few of our number merely pointed out that as someone from pretty well down south (Derby, I believe, please correct me if I’m wrong) visiting Scotland expressely to campaign against independence might just have been a little annoying?

      Now, the kid is clearly entitled to his opinion. And we’re all entitled to tell him what we think of it. I have serious doubts that he was ever abused; Unionist activists seem curiously sensitive and easily offended and for the vast majority of them accusations of abuse and intimidation do not really ring true.

      And if he is awfy sensitive… getting into politics might not be a great idea for him. Skin like a rhino is an occassional necessity. Occupation hazard.

    39. heedtracker says:

      Personally I have no problem with No voters. They don’t want Scotland to run Scotland for all sorts of reasons which is a shame but that’s democracy teamGB style. The real horror show in all of this has been the whole of teamGB media and all led on by the absolutely horrendous BBC. They’ve been an eye opener alrightee, North Korea must watch and weep at the sheer power of the great British liggers in their ยฃ500 million Pacific Quay giant glass box of No.

    40. Cath says:

      I think what attack there was on an 18 or 19 year old English lad IS WRONG and unjustified

      Did you read his tweet and the tweets following it? If not, please do read it and see if you can see anything you’d call “an attack”, “a torrent of abuse” or anything at all that would make anyone “fearful”.

      There is, as far as I can tell, one genuinely abusive tweeter to him today – long AFTER his blog the story in the Daily Record – which is from a serial troll with 6 followers who is today trying on a Scottish accent for the first time.

      This is fabricated entirely.

    41. Dcanmore says:


      “I do not understand why newspapers continue to print articles like the Daily Express one shown above.”

      They are playing to their own readership, like the Daily Mail does. It’s not for anyone else other than making their core readership feel nice and cosy with themselves. First thing that’s on the editor’s mind is not let the circulation slip.

    42. desimond says:

      Sorry Rev but life is too short for such pish.

      This is yet more of the band playing while their Establishment Titanic sinks. The rejuvenated Democracy wave generated from our YES vote is gonna roll all the way down through England and smash through W1 and beyond.

      Denial is a powerful drug but it will all ends in darkness.

    43. Cath says:

      I’m very happy to debate with Labour activists who come up here to join in the campaign because they believe in preventing Scotland having independence, for whatever reason. When simply debating someone becomes “abuse” and is then used as a narrative, that is abuse but the other way around. It’s silencing debate, and silencing freedom of speech.

    44. sausage fingered luddite says:

      My assumption due to name Kerry. Oops!

    45. galamcennalath says:

      Perhaps BT are trying to introduce a 4th general argument …. Too poor, too wee, too stupid and now, too divided?

    46. bookie from hell says:

      ragbag of green nationalists——–charming ( : > )

    47. Tony Williams says:

      I’m Cornish, voting yes and so is my English wife. In an independent, civilised Scotland there will be no circulation for the vile UK rags such as The Sun, Express and Mail.

    48. Devereux says:

      The word hate is used too often but I hate the Scottish Daily Express. My father reads it. He spits at the mouth when he talks about Alecsimmin, calls Sturgeon an ugly fishwife and generally talks in awful journalese when he is not pretending the referendum is not happening. This is a decent, hardworking man. He knows his first-born child is not a Nazi. He is proud of encouraging a university education. He knows I have an English partner, English daughters and lived in England for 20 years with many friends. He knows my politics are left of centre and that I have two degrees, one in History. Yet he would be the one slamming the door in the face of a young Yes canvasser. He would be horrified if anyone did it to his own grandchildren. Like I said, I hate the Daily Express. For what they do to my father.

    49. Colin says:

      What gets on my nerves about this kind of shite from the gutter press is there is no redress, we have no newspaper that is friendly to the yes campaign and if you lodge a complaint with the Press Complaints Commission they wait two weeks then tell you they can no longer find the article and that you should really go and blow it out your butt.
      We really need to start putting the no campaign on the wrong foot everyday, just as they have been doing to Yes for many months now.

    50. Murray McCallum says:

      As soon as he got to “proven safety” he was off and into orbit.

    51. sausage fingered luddite says:

      Tony Williams – no circulation for vile uk rags…
      If only that had been in the white paper, we might be home and dry by now!

    52. Pentland Firth says:

      Did Mr Gill forget to take his medication? What a deranged rant from a very angry man. He, and anyone taking his ravings seriously, needs help.

    53. JimnArlene says:

      We are not anti-English, we are anti-Westminster rule.

    54. Geoff Huijer says:

      Funny how the media didn’t have a field day with those naughty, racist Brazilians who wanted Argentina to lose in the World Cup Final. They didn’t even park a car bedecked in Argentinian flags one of Rio’s infamous Favelas. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Why not? Because it’s not news; it is friendly rivalry to not want your nearest neighbour/rival to win. It doesn’t mean that the Brazilians hate Argentina or are racist or Anti-Argentinian.

      Over here though, we Scots are told we are Anti-English if we don’t support England at football and are Anti-English when we want to manage our own affairs like every other country on the planet.

      The media are to blame for any animosity that has accrued and the above piece is only one example.

      I’m sick of being portrayed as Anti-English, a racist, a virus, a Nazi, or any other derogatory terms that have been bandied about by the media.

    55. Jeannie says:

      I’m not sure about forgiving and forgetting. I would like to think I could, where friends are concerned. But if a No vote results in my kids being hurt in the future, or means they have to move away…I can’t guarantee it. I’ll need to wait and see.

      What is definite, though, is that I will never vote for any of the Unionist parties ever again – irrespective of their policies. I’ve lost all faith and trust in them and the relationship has been destroyed for good. Not even if they “reformed” under a new mantle. And I won’t buy any newspapers that support them either. Going to do things very differently in the future.

    56. CameronB Brodie says:

      Can we get a sweep going to guess the first journalist to call for the vote to be cancelled?

    57. muttley79 says:

      Here is a welcome antidote to the ravings of Kerry Gill:

    58. packhorse pete says:

      “Proven safety of the UK”?
      So, we don’t get terrorist attacks and endless threats then? (NI? London bombings?)
      We don’t have to have emergency legislation to examine every citizen’s texts/emails?
      We’re not manufacturing drones?
      We don’t act as supine lackeys to the US in illegal wars, generating worldwide muslim resentment?
      Goodness, I must have got it all wrong.

    59. Tattie-bogle says:

      Anti English like this chap.

    60. desimond says:

      Little O/T but if you want facts instead of Fantasy, why not send any Express reader to Nicola Sturgeons online quizzing this evening at 8pm

    61. Wee Jimmy says:

      The ‘anti-English bigots’ comment is rich indeed! I’ve just been reading through a BT Facebook thread that is still going on right now as I type this, where a French lady yesser called Magali is being harassed for sticking her nose into Scottish politics – which she couldn’t possibly understand what with being foreign and that! The ironic thing is that she seems to understand scottish politics infinitely better than the people harassing her. Seriously some of the comments were xenaphobic in nature.

    62. mogabee says:

      The “British State” is in a real state these days with scandals galore.

      The State used to be able to hide all their transgressions from public view and the MSM was fundamental in that regard.

      But, times have changed, and the media hates the fact they no longer are revered. When a “breaking news” story comes out now I look to see what they are not publishing!

      Poor souls. No wonder a lot of them are so angry, and it ‘aint pretty.

      I was born in Northampton, but consider myself Scottish, and my partner is from Derbyshire…Yeah, you guessed it we are both for YES..;)

    63. donald anderson says:

      Alastair Darling, Jim Murphy, Lord Reid and Yohann Lemon are merr furrin’ tae me than a fleet of bus drivers from Birmingham; a tonne of welders from Walsall, cunning linguists from Liverpool or fan dancers from Finchley.

      Come tae think of it, I have more in common with masses of Mongolians than the Armageddon Anti democracy native carpetbuggers from Scotland.

    64. Andy-B says:

      You’ve got to laugh at the hypocrisy of Kerry Gill, then again the Daily Express ,is just one step above the Beano or Dandy, or is that one step below, after all at least the latter two are somewhat entertaining.

      Meanwhile Margaret (We’re all foreigners) Curran is again trying to spook the horses with this threat, indy trade will die due to the “Border Effect.” Whatever the hell that is,at least it a bit more original than the other lying scaremingering dross, we’re used to.

    65. heedtracker says:

      Good one yewkay, 2 different yewkay newspapers story from the Telegraph this time. Wonder what mad old Cockers thinks.

    66. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Wee Jimmy

      Can you do screen captures of the xenophobia and “abuse”

      Could be interesting as a wee counter?

    67. Cath says:

      Can we get a sweep going to guess the first journalist to call for the vote to be cancelled?

      I imagine if they think they’re losing, the week before the vote we’ll see a huge increase in this prayed for “division” they love to claim. That will allow them to call for the vote to be cancelled as it’s just all too nasty.

    68. Roll_On_2014 says:

      Hi Kerry

      If it looks shoite, smells like shoite and you can stand a shovel up in itโ€ฆ it probably is shoite.

      Toodleoo the noo!

    69. Andy-B says:

      More and more Labour and ex-Labour supporters are beginning to see the light,that is independence, as former Labour Defence Minister Peter Kilfoyle, backs YES.

      Meanwhile the Tories want to walk out of the European Convention on Human Rights, the UK could find itself, expelled from the 47 member council. We must vote yes to leave the madhouse of Westminster rule.

    70. Papadox says:

      Thanks for your impartial well balanced advice Kerry, speaks volumes about the level the press has sank to in merry England.

      Whatever the result in the referendum I will still be here trying my best, until the day I die or obtain our freedom. We will win, don’t know when but we will win.

    71. Martin says:

      What I like is the balanced way it is presented. It would have been easy to spout agenda laden pish, but here they’ve….oh. Oh dear.

    72. goldenayr says:

      My old neighbour never used to be this bitter.

      Standoffish and condescending yes,the hateful side is new.

      Wonder what he thinks of the latest labour defector..oh,he doesn’t like him either.

    73. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m guessing that if this Kerry Gill person were old enough to vote for devolution in 1997 then they would have been celebrating when devolution won cause they saw it as the end to the nasty SNP! I wonder what ever happened to those nasty SNP folks oh that’s right they are now in power. So you’ll excuse me if I do not pay the slightest bit of attention to twats like this. ๐Ÿ˜‰

      On a more serious note it appears that the police have approved the Orange Order march in Edinburgh on Saturday 13th September according to the Edinburgh Evening Times.

    74. T.C. says:

      Strange that!!! I was born in England lived half my life in South Africa, have scottish parents. I am NOT an SNP supporter, NOT anti English.. and yet I’m voting YES. Because I beleive we will be better off alone. And as for the reporter “she” is the racist.scumbag…

    75. Clootie says:

      I never look at the Mail or the Express ( not many papers I do look at now).

      These people are not journalists they are puppets of the state. They have nothing to add to the debate. The same journalists are writing anti EU or immigrant hate speech.

      They will never understand the concept of a just society.

      They are mainly angry because we are so ” ungrateful ” for the crumbs London “Gifts” us.

    76. Flower of Scotland says:

      Yeah! Things have gone a wee bit quiet? I think that it is ” ignoring them ” time! So Britnat papers have to come out with something anti. Wait a minute! Radio Scotland says ,via Eleanor Bradford, that in newspapers all round the WORLD the headline news is the NOVOVIRUS in Glasgow affecting some workers at the Commonwealth Games! This is a terrible blow to Scotland and the games haven’t even started yet? JINGS, CRIVENS, HELP MA BOAB! What is the BBC going to do about it!!!!

      We will hear shortly! We have been promised!

      I’m off to watch the extremely funny Yew Choob in lock down, am frightened of the NOVOVIRUS!!

    77. goldenayr says:


      He voted against Holyrood in 97.

      Even badmouthed one of the girls in the village when she stood for the SNP as an MP.

      Strangely,he supported a lad in the village who is now a tory MP in England.

    78. handclapping says:

      Why have you categorised the piece under idiots? This is someone who knows what he’s doing and is doing it deliberately. That is not idiocy, it is lying.

      the proven safety of the United Kingdom is yet another use of history by the BTNTUKOK. What is proven about the future either in the UK or independent? Another lie, not an idiocy.

      When BT can tell me what my future will be if I vote No then I will listen but otherwise I will go for the option that leaves me the most sea-room, which is always the best option in any uncertain situation, and that is with the wide open opportunities that independence with Yes will give

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Flower of Scotland
      My mum recently had a touch of the Novovirus. Shook it off in a couple of days and didn’t even take to here bed. I think you only need to worry if you have an existing condition. Don’t quote me on that though. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    80. Jim Marshall says:

      Just as well there”s no equivalent to the Hippocratic Oath for journalists. Scribes were once respected, now they are despised being strangers to truth.

    81. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well that kind of explains everything nicely in one complete nut shell goldenayr. He’s a Tory supporting immigrant bashing (probably) benefits bashing (most likely) SNP hating (definitely) Westminster loving (obviously) all in it together believer (apparently) anti independence supporter (obviously)! ๐Ÿ˜‰

    82. chalks says:

      It’s funny, the only thing the referendum is doing is separating the unionist papers out from the indy ones.

      And the 45% at least that intend on voting yes, won’t go near an Express/Mail, Telegraph, Scotsman ever again.

    83. goldenayr says:


      Best thing is,I think he’s a card carrying labour member.

      But don’t quote me on that.

    84. Will Podmore says:

      Stuart wrote that Kerry Gill is guilty of “furious, unhinged rants where you call your opponents a bunch of racist bigots.” What Kerry actually wrote was that the Yes campaign consisted of SNP supporters, some Green nationalists, some disaffected Labour voters and ‘rather more anti-English bigots than anyone cares to admit’.
      So Kerry was not calling ALL Yes supporters anti-English bigots, only some of them. Are you really claiming that no supporters of the Yes campaign could possibly be called anti-English bigots? May I suggest you read some of the comments on this website?

    85. Illy says:

      “Why have you categorised the piece under idiots? This is someone who knows what heโ€™s doing and is doing it deliberately. That is not idiocy, it is lying.”

      Not everyone has gotten this concept yet:

      “When planning, assume malice. When forgiving, assume ignorance.”

    86. CameronB Brodie says:

      Will Podmore
      There are bigots on both sides, agreed. However, you appear to equate a handful of private individuals on the Yes side, with the institutionalised bigotry coming from UKOK. Does the phrase “blood and soil” ring any bells?

    87. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT Ronnie , if I don’t get to the PQ protest on the 27th would you please sign my name on the Wings banner? I’ll be looking out for you if I get there.
      I missed out last time, didn’t realise it was being signed so I’ll be delighted to have you as my ” proxy”!

    88. heedtracker says:

      @ Will Podmore, got any examples of bigotry on WoS because that’s a very unpleasant accusation with out any actual examples and yes I know, being a yes voter for Scotland running Scotland makes you anti English right?

    89. alexicon says:

      The Scottish edition of the English daily Express has a line below their title saying: we’re better together Are they registered with the electoral commission?
      I’m half English with several elder brothers, some of them claim they’re English and some even stay in England. I also have a wife who is not from theses shores and is voting YES.
      I didn’t know I was racist.
      After the vote I won’t want to get on with scum like Gill and his like.

    90. Peter A Bell says:

      As rabid British nationalist propagandists go, Kerry Gill is undoubtedly one of the more deluded, deranged and malicious. His account of the referendum campaign is not merely misleading, it turns truth on its head. As anyone who is actually familiar with politics in Scotland at first hand will be aware, it is the anti-independence effort which has been characterised some of the most blatant dishonesty ever to befoul a democratic process.

      Only this week Better Together was caught misrepresenting the President of the European Union so badly that they were subject to a barely-veiled rebuke from Jean-Claude Junckerโ€™s office.

      Then there was the recent fiasco in which the British Treasury was slapped down by two academics whose research they had abused in order to produce one of the more ludicrous scare stories in the litany of half-baked fearmongering that poured out of the UK Government, the British parties and Better Together over the past couple of years.

      The list goes on. We might mention the leaflet about pensions put out by Blair McDougall’s little band of professional liars which contained only untruths and nothing but untruths. Or we could refer to Alistair Darling’s incessant lying about the bank bail-out and much else besides. But bigoted fanatics such as Kerry Gill are blind to all of this dishonesty on the part of the campaign to deny the sovereignty of Scotland’s people. Either that, or they hold such brazen lying to the people of Scotland to be fully justified in defence of the structures of power and privilege which define the British state.

      But far, far, worse even than this malicious dishonesty is the malevolent hatemongering of bitter, twisted individuals such as Kerry Gill and Alan Cochrane (Daily Telegraph) whose purpose is to provoke the acrimony that they revel in predicting. These despicable individuals seek to pollute a peaceful, democratic, constitutional process with the filthy pus that oozes from their own rancid, malignant minds.

      It is incumbent on all of those who seek for Scotland no more than the normal status of a nation to deny these deeply unpleasant provocateurs the divisive acrimony that they crave.

      Our aim is to create a better, fairer society in Scotland and to fashion a new relationship with the rest of the UK based on the mutually respectful partnership of equals that the archaic, anomalous, corrupt and dysfunctional union has so signally failed to deliver in more than three centuries. We must not allow our democracy to be hijacked by vile pedlars of hate such as Kerry Gill.

    91. seoc says:

      Dear oh dear. Once this laddie can put his disappointment behind him and sees the success of Scotland, tunes will soon change. He won’t even need to crawl back, the phoney lure of yon union will soon dissipate.

    92. Flower of Scotland says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      Yes Cameron it’s not nice having sickness and diarrhoea ! But All headlines round the world! Maybe if it had been Ebola virus!!!

    93. Helena Brown says:

      Firstly may I say I am with those who had a laugh at the proven safety of the UK. Tell that to those who have lost their jobs and those who will continue to lose their livelihoods within the proven safety of the UK. Tell that to those starving in a wealthy safe UK.
      Will Podmore, I suggest that you read the stories from people who do not speak English with a Scots accent who have been abused by NO/Naw voters and tell me who is the the Anti English Bigot. It certainly does not come from here. Mirror look and you may be amazed at what you will see. There is a dreadful attitude which has emanated from the No Campaign, it has not come from YES which is the side which uses the brain and not the fist.

    94. Quentin Quale says:

      @ Jim Marshall
      the NUJ does have a Code of Conduct. However it seems that many journalists aren’t following it. Or are freelance and non-union. It really is disgraceful that pieces like this are passed off as ‘normal’. I mean, ‘The Yes campaign is in trouble’. Wow, an assertion without any supporting material. It may appear elsewhere in the article but I won’t be reading it. Even if it is ignored and only taken up/believed by a few, the galling thing is where can we claim right of reply? As I’ve mentioned before, an awful lot of so-called journalists will have to look at themselves after the referendum and ask themselves if they are proud of their writing.

    95. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      I know Magali and she is from Toulouse.

      She has written historical novels in English about Scotland.

      She knows and loves Scotland, both deeply.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      I’ve posted twice today about the norovirus. The Games should be flagship event for Scotland, showing what we can achieve as a nation. Hey, but perhaps there are other forces which would prefer to see a bit of negativity introduced. Not accusing, just saying.

    97. Another Union Dividend says:

      What a No vote means for Scotland
      No Ambition
      No Belief
      No Courage
      No Democracy
      No Education thatโ€™s free
      No Future
      No Global presence
      No Hope
      No Improvement
      No jingoism from the Great British Broadcasting Corporation
      No Knee bending to Westminster
      No Lords for failed Scottish MPs
      No Mail, Express or Telegraph anti Scottish venom
      No NHS thatโ€™s free
      No Obsession with London on TV
      No Prosperity
      No Quarrelsome neighbour dragging us into illegal wars.
      No Radiation from nuclear leaks
      No Self Respect
      No Tory Toffs running our land
      No Unequal society
      No Vice ridden Establishment figures
      No Westminster gravy train
      No Xenophobia from UKIP
      No Yarns from HM Treasury
      No Zombie economics from the City of London

    98. handclapping says:

      Of course Kerry Gill has reason to be bitter, his talent is not being recognised. His predecessor on the Express, one Cochrane A, escaped to the fleshpots of the Torygraph and, given the state of the “Scottish” papers, Gill never will, however talented he may be (Not).

      If he really thinks he is good as a journalist and what he writes is worthy of respect, he should cut loose from the Express and write his pieces on a blog of his own. Then he could do a fundraser like someone we know and find himself overwhelmed by the response.

    99. Devereux says:

      @Will Podmore A pleasure to hear your point expressed reasonably. I also abhor xenophobia. I read the myriad of comments on this site with only the occasional raised brow. I find the Daily Express vile. Putting aside whether you are a Yes or a No, what is your honest opinion of the Daily Express? Once given, then we may enter a debate
      with you.

    100. Jim Marshall says:

      Quentin Quale 5.07.

      I suppose there are a lot of professions with a Code of Conduct. Journalists should be at very least truthful. I now include them in my list of dodgy dealers…used car salesmen,bookies,shyster lawyers etc.

    101. Devereux says:

      @Will Podmore A pleasure to hear your point expressed reasonably. I also abhor xenophobia. I read the myriad of comments on this site with only the occasional raised brow. I find the Daily Express vile. Putting aside whether you are a Yes or a No, what is your honest opinion of the Daily Express? Then we may enter a debate with you.

    102. Les Wilson says:

      Seems Malaysian plane was shot down by a ground to air missile. 295 people on board, none alive. 10,000 ft when hit.

    103. Meindevon says:


      I can feel your pain. Just this morning I was talking to a very well educated English relative who commented on not reading a lot of the MSM due to misleading headlines and misinforming stories. Well,I thought this is a big step forward for someone who used to be an avid DM reader. Then he blew It by saying the only news he takes any notice of now is on the BBC news website.

      Don’t worry, I did manage to advise him of the outrage against them in Scotland (which he had no idea about) re their unionist bias and recounted the story of the demo against them being reported by them as a pro Indy demo.

      Made him think, I hope.

    104. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Will Podmore

      “Are you really claiming that no supporters of the Yes campaign could possibly be called anti-English bigots? May I suggest you read some of the comments on this website?

      I suggest you do so yourself before posting and identify such bigotry?

      As far as I am concerned I really have not seen anything approaching what you are suggesting although I have seen the odd awayday posters who arrive, leave a stupid mark and probably change their name if they ever come back to do the same. They are normally eaten alive an sent to bed by the other contributors.

      They are probably trolls whose mission is to disrupt the thread.

      It is a bit like people who come on here and make Holy Wullie comments which have no basis in reality and are really a sanctimonious form of trolling.

      We do not hate the English, many of us have friends, family and work colleagues who are English.

      We hate Westminster rule.

      Now, understand that, or just sanctimoniously bugger off please.

    105. Jim Marshall says:

      Peter A Bell 4.59

      “But far, far, worse even than this malicious dishonesty is the malevolent hatemongering of bitter, twisted individuals such as Kerry Gill and Alan Cochrane (Daily Telegraph) whose purpose is to provoke the acrimony that they revel in predicting. These despicable individuals seek to pollute a peaceful, democratic, constitutional process with the filthy pus that oozes from their own rancid, malignant minds.”

      Well said Peter. You never miss and hit the wall.

    106. a supporter says:

      I cannot for the life of me understand why any of you are showing sympathy for the nitwit kid from England. He has come up here at the behest of the No campaign to act as a troll to try to pick up opprobrium which can then be used in rags like the D Heil and the Mad Express as signs of antiEenglishness among YES supporters. He deserves whatever shit hits him.

    107. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just heard Peter Kilfoyle snippet on Radio Scotland. (5.35) Very encouraging. More power to him.

    108. Ian Brotherhood says:

      P.S No…approx. 5.32.

    109. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Jim Marshall

      re Sanctimonious Will Podmore above, Peter Bell is clairvoyant.

    110. braco says:

      Sorry O/T but does anyone know how to get the Aye right business cards and leaflets? I am working in the Largs shop now pretty much full time and we are just about out of them and I have no idea where to order more. They are flying out the door, especially the business cards. Could anybody point me in the direction of where to order up some please?

    111. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      why do I think another one has arrived?

    112. handclapping says:

      What a fool I’ve been. It was only after writing that bit abot Kerry Gill above, that it clicked why the “Scottish” MSM is so uniformly against independence. Its their situation.

      Consider, they are subsidised from London. If Scotland goes there is no point in having “Scottish” editions; anything from Scotland can be covered by the Foreign desk so their paper and position is gone with independence and so are most of the other opportunities. No “Scottish” Express, Mail, Times, Telegraph etc. You’ll still be able to buy the bog standard English editions if you ask for them but ex “Scottish” editors will be 10 a penny.

      It will be as bad if not worse for them as Slab loosing power was; years of honing powers to predict what was happening in Slab through the Kremlinology of watching John Smith House wasted as now the bloody SNP had stolen power and we’d never bothered to make contacts with them. So just bash the SNP as cover for their own failings. Just as they now bash Yes as cover for their own fears

    113. Ekindy says:

      I concur. Beat me to it.

    114. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      On the other hand, we will need more accountants, don’t you think?

    115. Bunter says:

      Yeah,I see on twitter some Yessers still entertaining the Labour troll from down south, and politely. He should be ignored.

    116. braco, I’ll bring over some business cards tomorrow. When do you open?

    117. Helena Brown says:

      Flower of Scotland spent 10 days on a cruise with norovirus running wild. It took all of those 10 days to get it under control. Not nice I believe though I have never contracted it. Lots of careful hand washing is the answer. So if they start now they have what, 6 days, I won’t be eating then.

    118. Auld Rock says:

      Does anyone think that maybe we should start a ‘Crowd Funded Appeal’ to buy them all ‘BROWN TROUSERS and UNDERWEAR’????
      LOL. Aye That’ll be right.

      But seriously look at their recent ‘Readership’ figers, they’re all loosing readers hand over fist.

      Auld Rock

    119. Wullie B says:

      Just speaking to an English gentleman in our local coop who before the IndyRef debate in Portree was on the fence has made his mind up which way he is voting…

      And its not the way he thought it would go either and he said he was rather surprised that he is now a definte YES voter after the one sided way the media and the BBC has portrayed Scotland during the what he described as the most important part and exciting part of Scotlands future and that was after speaking to yessers while waiting for filming to start.

      Roll on till the 18th Sept and the best known secret in the UK proves that Scotland wants whats best for her people and not for a small percentages ermine trimmings

    120. Flower of Scotland says:

      Sorry to go o/t

      Can I ask advice please. I have a postal vote and wanted to change it so that I could actually go into a booth and put a X on YES! Fife council say I have to write to change it because they need my signature. I have been pondering this and wondering which method of voting is the safest! I’m getting paranoid about my vote. I have been waiting for 50years to do this so I want it to count!

    121. Bob Sinclair says:

      When we vote Yes as we surely will, it will be due in no small measure to people like Kerry Gill who have been unstinting in their writing of total pish which is working in our favour.
      We should think of some suitable method of honouring these brave and fearless journalists for services leading to our Independence. ๐Ÿ™‚

    122. braco says:

      The Tree of Liberty, that’s absolutely brilliant! I am in the shop from 10 in the morning but I can get in earlier if that would help you. I can stay open for as late as you need also.

    123. goldenayr says:

      Is Ken MacQuarrie on his summer hols and can’t be contacted?

      It’s the only explanation I’ve got for the beeb still running with the Kilfoyle story.

    124. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for O/T but sincerest sympathies go out to all the families of the passengers and crew on the Boeing 777 flight number MH 17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down over the East of Ukraine earlier today. ๐Ÿ™

    125. braco, when do you close tonite?

    126. handclapping says:

      Depends how good the conversion courses will be. If they can convert all the ones advising of how to avoid tax into the ones who advise business how to expand without running out of money then probably no. Otherwise we’ll need a lot more of the second to guide and advise all the entrepreneurs who will be taking advantage of the opportunities of an independent Scotland ๐Ÿ™‚


    127. Bunter says:


      Aye sad news. A lot of Scots use Schipol hub to avoid LHR.

    128. braco, ten o clock it is. See you tomorrow, I’ve only got about 120sh, so you still need a source…….regards,

    129. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Those who can’t teach and those who cant do that, become teachers of teachers.

      39C just now and may just touch 40.

      Internet cutting out, along with TV and telephone.

    130. BigRik says:

      I am a YES voter, i am not anti-English, i am however anti-Westminster, they continue to call it a democracy, really? Explain the House of Lords then. The quicker we are rid of these parasites (and i include the in-pocket so called journalists) ,the better. The ranting will continue and grow, and i expect many dirty tricks, but WE must rise above their childishness, and, if we ignore them, they may well go away. Here’s hoping ๐Ÿ™‚

    131. What Scotland is actually engaged in, for the first time in many years, is a democratic airing of differing views. It’s healthy. Democracy is something we’ve been starved of for as long as I can remember, the results of General Elections being decided by people in another part of another country. We are learning & growing ready for independence day.

    132. braco says:

      We are having a wee cheese and wine do, so we will be open until well past nine. Come on down and have a drink and a chat. (We have coke too)

    133. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye Bunter, as if MAS don’t have enough problems with the ongoing investigation into flight MH370. You right about Schipol Bunter.

      Amazing how Ukraine government is blaming the fighters in East Ukraine and the fighters in East Ukraine blaming the Ukraine government. Being the cynical person as most people know me to be I find it extremely hard to believe that it was the Ukraine government forces that shot this flight down. As someone on Sky news said, when you put highly technical equipment in the hands of people who are not trained on this equipment then this leads to “mistakes” being made. I tend to agree with this assessment. The shooting down tends to suggest to me that it was more than likely the East Ukrainian fighters who have shot down this plane.

      As the latest news reporter says the East Ukraine fighters have in recent weeks shot down a couple of Ukraine government military aircraft in the same area as this incident today.

    134. Bigdrone says:

      I can definitely smell shite!

    135. TJenny says:

      Braco – how lovely to hear from you. So glad you managed to relocate to Scotland, hope you’re being funded for your efforts by someone/something. ๐Ÿ™‚

    136. CameronB Brodie says:

      If we can’t trust the UK press to report accurately on Scottish affairs, why should we accept anything they have to say? Unless you have been following developments in the Ukraine through independent journalist, you are drawing conclusions based on bollocks information, IMO. The corporate press are all the same.

    137. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ditto to TJenny. Looking forwards to you buying me that pint you promised. ๐Ÿ™‚

    138. goldenayr says:


      That’ll be the squirrels.If they don’t distract you their crap will.

    139. TJenny says:

      CameronB Brodie – sheesh, you’re just soo high maintenance. ๐Ÿ™‚

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      I didn’t think it showed. ๐Ÿ™‚

    141. TJenny says:

      CameronB Brodie – ๐Ÿ˜‰

    142. Brian Mchugh says:

      10,000 flags for Yes’ flags arrived in the post today. ๐Ÿ™‚

    143. horseboy says:

      Just spotted 3 rusting rotting leaking black obsolete nuclear sub hulks floating in the background, as the dumb barge aircraft carrier QE floated into outer wetdock, Rosyth today.
      (if you look very hard in top LH corner of TV picture)

      On tonights STV North 6pm news.

      Where is the other 3 rusting rotting leaking nuclear sub hulks!

      ps. Recently saw ariel photo on facebook/twitter? showing 6 black obsolete nuclear subs floating at Rosyth dockyard.

      pps. just found this:
      Nuclear submarine decommissioning, 7 ‘STORED’ at Rosyth:
      HMS Churchill
      HMS Dreadnought
      HMS Resolution
      HMS Repulse
      HMS Renown
      HMS Revenge
      HMS Swiftsure

      (CHERNOBYL, after its catastrophic nuclear disaster, area will not be safe to all life forms for 20,000years, for 20miles around.

    144. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m not drawing conclusions from bollocks information Cameron.

      First Flight MH17 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.
      This pic shows the route it was on before being shot down.

      Second, as the flight was flying from West to East then logic says that the Ukraine government troops would not be the most likely to shoot down any aircraft flying West to East.

      Third. An Antonov An 26 transport aircraft was shot down on after delivering supplies to troops in the Lugansk region.

      Fourth. An Ilyushin IL 76 transport aircraft was shot down in East Ukraine as it came into land at Luhansk in East Ukraine.

      Fifth. The Il 76 was reported to have been brought down by a SAM-6 missile which has an altitude limit of 11,000 metres (36,000 feet)

      Sixth. MH 17 was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet.

      Points three, four, five and six specifically are fact and can be confirmed. Not only that but the East Ukraine fighters were widely reported as celebrating these aircraft being shot down. In fact when the Il 76 was shot down video footage was released by the East Ukrainian fighters showing the missiles being fired at the Il 76. THIS confirms that the East Ukrainians do have the technology to fire ground to air missiles at aircraft and by extension it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to see that if they can down an Il 76 coming into land then they obviously can also down an aircraft flying at cruising altitude.

    145. HandandShrimp says:

      There is a strange sense in which the miserablists of No are desperate to provoke a response. They have been seen to be the ones that resort to abuse as an almost first port of call of late and I think they are aware that they are the source of any ill will going. By provoking abuse they are simply hoping to gather “nasty cybernat” headlines.

      Sorry Kerry, not happening.

    146. braco says:

      Thanks, it’s great to be back! No nobody is funding me but my savings. They should last till at least a few days after the YES vote as I couldn’t possibly travel with the hangover I have planned!

      I have put the money aside so don’t worry.

      A bit busy so don’t be insulted when I don’t reply. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    147. Nemo says:

      @braco – you can get the leaflets from Gavin Lessells, email gavinlessells at yahoo dot co dot uk – replace the at with @ and dot with . of course. Try contacting YES Hamilton for the cards, last time I spoke to Gavin he did not do the cards. Hope this helps.

    148. Flower of Scotland says:

      Yes! My YES Saltires arrived today.

    149. CameronB Brodie says:

      I don’t want to drag this out, but I reckon you are drawing a lot of assumptions from what I would suggest is information supplied by sources who credibility and independence may be questioned. Let’s leave it at that, or post over in OT if you really want to. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    150. CameronB Brodie says:

      Don’t worry. I’ve been saving my pennies, as well. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    151. Lesley-Anne says:

      Just going what I know from previous flying experiences Cameron that’s all. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    152. Grouse Beater says:

      Kerry Gill?

      Never heard of the person.

      Sounds like a variety of potato.

      I’ll have a ‘forpit’ of Kerry Gills, thank you.’

    153. braco says:

      Any body know the source of aye right business cards and leaflets so that we can order 5 or10 thousand please leave a message here for me …..please. It’s for the Largs shop to distribute as widely as possible!

      Please leave a message as I may not be able to get back to tonight. Thanks everybody.

    154. Donald says:

      I was canvassing last night with, not one, but two ladies from England. The Granny-scaring, hard-of-thinking-scaring nonsense that passes for news reporting at the moment is disgusting.

    155. cynicalHighlander says:

      OT: Dunoon 7.30pm Lost signal at mo.

    156. GrahamB says:

      Para 2, line 2, “proven safety”!
      Today we cycled from the West End to Glasgow Green (pint at the West Brewery, yum) through lots of impending security measures – more later O/T on implications for PQ3. Why are these measures needed and have probably doubled the cost of the Games? Tony f*****g Blair and his cronies plus current Tory, Lib/Dem and Labour sycophants stirring up aggro in the Middle East and against foreigners/muslims in general. So what safety is he claiming, we’re not all daft!
      (Sorry Rev for too many !!!s but I’m annoyed)

    157. Flower of Scotland says:

      @ Helena Brown and CameronB

      It’s wasn’t the Novovirus that I was getting at. It’s not nice! It was the radio Scotland report, which I thought was OTT . To say that it was the only headline throughout the world was maybe a bit much? The drama of it and the wheeling out of the doom and gloom Eleanor Bradford , who reports on health issues. We’ve discussed her here before. The BBC are being negative about the Games before they’ve even started!

      Condolences to the families of the passengers on the Malaysian flight.

    158. Murray McCallum says:

      Danny Alexander floundering in the U turn. If they had any principles they would never have supported the bedroom tax in the first place.

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      Flower of Scotland
      I thought that was where you were coming from, but I thought I’d try to reassure you health-wise. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Re. the BBC. They are the British Broadcasting Corporation and will have to go through an expensive re-branding once we extinguish Britain. Mind now, that’s a global re-branding exercise. Perhaps they might change to the Little Britain Broadcasting Corporation? ๐Ÿ™‚

    160. Harry McAye says:

      Peter, you are a No plant and I claim my ยฃ500. Keep your filth to yourself.

      O/T but mentioned on other thread today. Christina McKelvie MSP retweeted my tweet to her about the Hamilton Advertiser bias now becoming sinister. Still cannot believe the report on local Yes shop being stickered by No supporters overnight became a outlet for a local Labour councillor to berate Christina for complaining about the stickering and insinuating she was insulting the voters of Hamilton, who will vote No of course. Plus the pro-No articles by Labour members on pages 8 and 10. Sorry to “labour” this but I’ve still not calmed down.

    161. Bunter says:

      Just a thought. Has anyone noticed any difference in the indyref coverage/debate before the regulated period kicked in and after.

      Seems to me its the same old biased mince as before!

    162. Croompenstein says:

      @Bunter – Naw, Sarah Smith and Naughty Jim are getting angrier..

    163. cal says:

      Braco my friend!

      We met in the Largs shop last Sunday. It was a pleasure to speak with you.

    164. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for this cause I know it will make quite a few sick to their bottom’s when they see this. I know it makes me sick to my bottom and seethe with anger as well.

    165. heedtracker says:

      Poor old Beaker taking C4 heat right the noo for his scumbags masters in Cabinet, or a Scottish quuisling in action,

    166. Brian McHugh says:

      OT… got my Waterboy’s ticket in the post today (along with me YES flags :-)… and ‘to my absolute shame’, I had never really paid attention to the Lyrics of the song ‘Old England’ before…

      “A man looks up on a yellow sky
      and the rain turns to rust in his eye
      Rumours of his health are lies
      Old england is dying

      His clothes are dirty shade of blue
      and his ancient shoes worn through
      He steals from me and he lies to you
      Old england is dying

      Still he sings an empires song
      And still he keeps his Navy strong
      And he sticks his flag where it ILL belongs
      Old england is dying

      You’re asking what makes me sigh now?
      What it is makes me shudder so… well?
      I just FREEZE in the wind…
      and I’m numb from the pummeling of the snow,
      that falls from high in yellow skies
      Where the well loved flag of England flies
      Where the homes are warm and the mothers sigh
      Where comedians laugh and babies cry
      where criminals are televised, politicians fraternised
      journalists are dignified and everyone is civilised
      and children stare with heroin eyes, heroin eyes, heroin eyes… Old England!

      Old england is dying

      Evening has fallen
      The swans are singing
      The last of Sundays bells is ringing
      The wind in the trees has sighed…

      and old england is dying.

    167. BigRik says:

      They are all getting angrier because we have the audacity to disagree with them, don’t we know that they, and they alone know whats best for us? SLAB have served Scotland so well for so long, that’s why it’s a Workers Paradise. Jobs galore, admittedly voluntary for food banks, but still….

    168. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I heard Beaker today on R 4.

      he sounded so anglicised.

      Getting ready to stay in England and keep his UK OK passport methinks?

    169. Grouse Beater says:

      Poor old Beaker taking C4 heat right the noo for his scumbags masters in Cabinet, or a Scottish ("Quizmaster" - Ed) in action,

      I managed to hear that too – he got spit roasted.

    170. heedtracker says:

      @ Grouse Beater, what will beaker’s reward be? Baron Alexander after independence probably. LibDem coming out as new old Conservative will have some impact in any poll, in and out of UK. Maybe a big City bank job for Lord Alexander of Nairn and Strathspey, seated next to Lord Darling of Morningside. It’s so like 300 years ago, it’s spooky.

    171. Cal says:


      You can get A6 cards from Gavin Lessells. His e-mail is


      Are you out canvassing yet?

    172. Richard Fraser says:

      Nothing says ‘proven safety’ like ยฃ1.2 Trillion of debt. I won’t even mention the bigotry: I’m resigned to the fact I’m a racist, SNP-loving madman, hell-bend on destroying a beautiful union. That’s just what happens when you support Yes because you love your English neighbours and wish to lead by example.

    173. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      RT is reporting that Putin’s plane coming back from Brazil was on the similar trajectory today 30 minutes apart.

    174. Bugger (the Panda) says:


    175. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      www in front please

    176. muttley79 says:


      I am delighted to hear you were able to remain in Scotland. I did not want to keep asking if you had managed to get a job because I know if can get annoying.

    177. caz-m says:


      Rev, for some reason I ended up on the Conservative Home website and came across this piece today from Brian Monteith.

      Brian Monteith is policy director of ThinkScotland and editor of

      Have a read at the glowing report he gives to the latest Ruth Davidson rant.

    178. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @heedtracker & @ Grouse Beater
      Regardless of the Indy result, word from Inverness is that Danny “Tory Boy” will not even stand as an MP for Inverness in 2015. He has no chance and will end up last of the main parties – probably losing his deposit. Supposedly, he has lined up a plum job in London already – probably as a Tory advisor.

      Even Charlie Kennedy will be in trouble. Perhaps that is why he broke his silence and was sooking up to DC. Lord Kennendy of Loch Lochy – that sounds nice.

    179. Paula Rose says:

      (Braco honey XXX)

    180. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      “Even Charlie Kennedy will be in trouble. Perhaps that is why he broke his silence and was sooking up to DC. Lord Kennendy of Loch Lochy โ€“ that sounds nice.”

      yeah, and lets remember him for what he is, not a politician with a drink problem but a lying politician with a drink problem. there will be no correction or apology for his lies at pmq yesterday.

    181. Croompenstein says:

      Lord Kennendy of Loch Lochy โ€“ that sounds nice

      Lord Kennedy of Campbelltown Loch I Wish You Were Whisky

    182. a2 says:

      Things don’t change much do they?

    183. Alex Taylor says:

      Hi All

      Sorry to be off topic.

      Message for Braco if anyone can get in touch with him.

      At the end of the โ€˜If weโ€™d brought Parkinsonโ€™ thread he asked where he could get more Aye Right business cards. Iโ€™m the man to see about that (though there may be others) so I’ve left a message and my email address in Off Topic for him.


    184. Derek M says:

      You know we hear a lot of this anti-English nonsense but yet we hear nothing about anti-Scottish,i am not anti-English but sometimes i wish those good sensible English people who live in England woke the fuck up and done something about westminster and if they had done then maybe this referendum would never have had to happen,but sorry if you guys down south are just going to do nothing then we will just have to force you.
      As for the express i wouldnt even wipe my arse with it ,it`s a xenophobic piece of trash and the writers, im not even going to give them the title of journalists as they do not deserve it,are pathetic worms.

    185. Fiona says:

      @ Derek M

      The people in the rest of the UK are not going to do anything about Westminster because a lot of them do not see any need to do that. This is obvious.

      I agree that if we still had a consensus the question of independence might not have come to the point of referendum: but the fact is that we don’t.

      Where I part company with you is in this sentence:

      if you guys down south are just going to do nothing then we will just have to force you.

      That is neither possible nor desirable.

      We need to vote yes and determine our own future. What happens in rUK is then none of our business. Nor should it be

    186. Brian McHugh says:

      The Daily Express…

      Written for Nipples, By Nipples.


    187. Alex Taylor says:

      Can someone let Braco know I’ve some cards left and can give him details of where I got them printed and at what cost?

      Left him my email address in Off Topic.


    188. Paula Rose says:

      @ Brian McHugh – nipples dear?

    189. Derek M says:

      ah but it is Fiona we have already started the process and a yes vote will force the good people of England to start asking questions about their parliament ,im an optimist and i believe that there is already a movement starting in England that will flourish and grow until they too free themselves from westminster tyranny.
      One can only hope ๐Ÿ™‚

    190. Robert Peffers says:

      Well! As I’ve just been telling poor ignorant Duggie on the other thread after he attempted to rubbish the facts I quoted him along with cites to the various Treaties, Statutes and other documents.

      He made a long string of claims and beliefs with not a single cite to back anything up. There isn’t a single claim made by the YES campaign that does not also have cites, often not too clear but there none the less.

      There is a reasoned argument for the EU membership in that the EU laws state there is no way, other than a Scottish request to leave, to prevent EU citizens of EU citizenship and Scots have been EU citizens from Day One of the EU. Membership of the previous treaty has absolutely nothing to do with it.

      The facts on the Bank of England are that it is a United Kingdom Asset and the United Kingdom is a bipartite Union and Scotland owns a part of it. Scotland also has deposited in the bank vaults security for every Scottish bank note in circulation. Both of which, if returned to Scotland would stretch both the BofE and the Treasury, (which we also own part of), to the limit.

      There is not a single proven fact offered by Better Together just a tirade of claims and unsubstantiated beliefs. Frankly I have not debated the matter with any Unionist that couldn’t be torn to shreds by proven facts.

      Take their typical argument- โ€œWe don’t know what Currency we will useโ€.
      Ask them on what evidence they base that claim and they go quite, bluster or throw a tantrum.
      The answer is the pound Sterling whether in a currency union or not.

      Trident? It is going somewhere and we don’t care where.

      This Kerry gadgie has just reached the temper tantrum stage. Totally ignorable but be ready to dodge the Teddy.

    191. Kev says:

      Apologies if its already been posted but this really takes the biscuit – “English athletes at the Commonwealth Games have been briefed on what to do if they are booed amid fears that Scots nationalists could use the โ€œfriendly gamesโ€ to voice animosity towards the Auld Enemy”..

      Who the fuck boos athletes?

    192. wullie says:

      Only Thatchers children will vote no whether lab lib or tory

    193. YESGUY says:

      And here was me telling everyone to stay calm , the games are the spotlight and we can keep our powder dry for the final stretch. YEP lasted two days before i was shouting at the telly.

      The BBBC are telling the whole world about the novovirus , the journo’s are going on strike on OPENING DAY and the English athletes getting all worked up incase we all say boo.

      Chuck in the disgusting bile poured out by the papers and an alcoholic whinging about Scotland on PMQ and it would be to say i was pissed.

      Are they going to sabotage the C.Games?? Make Scotland out to be useless ?? And last week some bull about the SNLA .

      I usually have a cheeky wee laugh at conspiracy theories and never take them seriously but now i am not so sure.

      Or the whole of the UK is totally screwed up, i’m kiddin myself on and it will all go away in the morning.

    194. caz-m says:

      Findlay Farquaharson
      “yeah, and lets remember him for what he is, not a politician with a drink problem but a lying politician with a drink problem. there will be no correction or apology for his lies at pmq yesterday”

      My feelings as well about Charles Kennedy. That wee crawling, grovelling, smirkin piece of shit is finished in Scotland.

      Let him take his place in the House of Lords, in amongst the rest of the scum of the earth.

    195. Paula Rose says:

      Well boys and girls, you know what to do – if you are at the games stand and applaud every athlete.

    196. caz-m says:


      Big tough Isreal have just started a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip.

      They will end up slaughtering hundreds of innocent civilians.

    197. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      Must admit it was damn funny watching wee Danny the yellow tory make a huge fool of himself trying to defence Clegg’s opathetic Bedroom Tax duplicity.

      Apparently one of Clegg’s most loyal mouthpieces will be on Scotland Tonight soon to defend Clegg’s laughable bedroom tax posturing. Should be as funny as wee Danny’s floundering, assuming the interviewer isn’t completely brain-dead or one of the handful of remaining Clegg fans left on the planet.

    198. Graeme Doig says:

      Would they have gone on strike on the opening day of the london olympics. Me thinks not.
      Raging with you Yes Guy.
      London has nothing but contempt (if it can even muster that) for Scotland.
      Can’t blame some folk for equating london with england. To me it seems the nature of the beast.
      If i’m honest i’m only now just starting to (really making an effort anyway) to grow out of that thinking myself. This has been helped by the realisation that the the greatest enemy to Scotland is the enemy within this country.

    199. caz-m says:

      “The BBBC are telling the whole world about the novovirus”

      “I usually have a cheeky wee laugh at conspiracy theories and never take them seriously but now I am not so sure.”

      YESGUY, I heard a wee rumour today that it was BBC Scotland’s Eleanor Bradford who actually broke into the Athlete’s village and sprinkled Novovirus all over the place, then escaped into the night. All done because everything was running too smoothly.

    200. Croompenstein says:

      Beaker is Duggie.. I claim my tenner

    201. Training Day says:


      Absurd indeed. Although I’d fancy BBC Scotland to overdub raucous and hysterical cheering from the Jockish crowd when English athletes succeed. You might even hear chants of ‘pool and share’ from the Hampden crowd on Reporting Scotland.

    202. Truth says:

      Born in England and voting yes.

    203. Robert Peffers says:

      @Flower of Scotland says: 17 July, 2014 at 5:46 pm

      Can I ask advice please. I have a postal vote and wanted to change it so that I could actually go into a booth and put a X on YES!

      Hi, Flower of Scotland. I too have to vote by post as I never know when I cannot go out. I am in Kelty. You do have another choice. You can have someone you trust to vote for you by proxy. However, that too means you have to notify the them. I have an old voting card in my hand and it says this, “ If you would rather vote in person, or ask someone to vote on your behalf, you must cancel your vote before(it gives a quoted time and date). For further information please call the helpline : 03451 55 55 11.

      It also gives an email address :- voters [dot] roll [at] fife [dot] gov [dot] uk
      and quotes a web address

      Hope that helps.

    204. Thepnr says:

      Peter Kirfoyle ex Labour Minister who chucked Labour after accusing them of “abandoning their roots” is now supporting a Yes vote. He is not the first nor will he be the last high profile Labour figure to support Independence.

      The ones that have so far, see the sense in an Independent Scotland that believes in a fairer more equal society. Exactly what these once important Labour figures believed in and still do.

      They know the reality is that today’s Labour party run by London will do nothing for those less fortunate in our society, they are disgusted, like me, of foodbanks appearing in our towns and cities and the attack on the welfare state and privatisation of the NHS.

      The traditional Labour vote is starting to get the message, already more than 1/3 will be supporting Yes, many of the remaining 2/3rds will either be undecided or soft No’s. At heart they want the same as an Independent Scotland has the potential to deliver.

      If we get this 50% of Labour voters to say Yes then the games over.

      Many may not yet be online so Aye Right cards are of not much use, they need the truth spelt out by whispering or if necessary shouting in their ear.

      I know these people and I’m sure many of you do also, do not relent, up the ante, the establishment propaganda is useless against face to face conversation. Working hard I’m certain we can make that 35% exceed 50% in the weeks that are remaining. We’ll give it our best shot anyway.

    205. Paula Rose says:

      @ Truth – ditto

    206. crazycat says:

      @ Flower of Scotland

      No-one has answered your question about postal votes. I hope you see this; if I spot a post from you later when I happen to be on-line I will check with you.

      I found this on the site:

      “If you have applied to vote by post, you cannot vote in person at the polling station. However, on election day you can return you postal vote to the polling station (before 10pm) or to your the Returning Officer at your local council (before they close) if you do not want to post it or it is too late to post it. Contact the Returning Officer at your local council to find out where your polling station is.”

    207. Bob Sinclair says:

      Oops, Irony overload:

      BT supporter describes Kilfoyle as ‘Has-been politician from failed party’. What about Alisdair Darling then.

    208. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 17 July, 2014 at 7:19
      “The BBC. They are the British Broadcasting Corporation and will have to go through an expensive re-branding once we extinguish Britain”.

      Well they never actuall were the British Broadcasting Corporation. They were just, ABritish Broadcasting Corporation. They didn’t cover The Republic for starters. Mind you Cameron calles himself the British Prime Minister and claims he heads the British Parliament or even worse calls it, “My Government”, wich should see him dragged off to the Tower as it’s Her Majesty’s Government.

      They tend to be a bit arrogant those Kingdom of England political gadgies.

    209. Paula Rose says:

      Robert dear, have a nice cup of Earl Grey – you are amongst friends xxx

    210. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      I only have a layman’s appreciation of the constitutional tangle that is the UK. ๐Ÿ™‚

    211. YESGUY says:

      For over a year now i have been surprised so few have come over to our side Thepnr

      maybe some needing proof we’re winning or hoping to get a job down south.No one in their right mind would vote for most of these fuds now.

      If you went back 25 years and looked at the labour party you can see the shift. They could do bugger all against Thatcher and changed tactics. They are a shadow of themselves.

      Are they backing the NUJ strike action ?

      Do they ever back strikers now ?

      The referendum has brought me up a wee bit on politics and cleared my eyes a bit. I can’t see ANY difference between them and the tory parties anymore . I never thought i would see the day that happened.

      I think they are deid here . Even a NO vote will harm them now.

      I’m leaning to SNP . they have done an very good job and they have a lot more trust in Scotland than any others.

      But it will be interesting after a YES as to who to vote for . The whole lot changes then.

    212. Paula Rose says:

      YESGUY – green dear.

    213. Flower of Scotland says:

      @crazycat and Robert Peffers

      Thanks for that. I really wondered how safe a postal vote is? Can they be easily lost? I’m paranoid about my vote.

      Why would Malaysian Airlines be flying over a war torn area like Ukraine ?

    214. Thepnr says:


      If there is a No vote I will be voting and supporting SNP.

      This Labour party we have now is nothing but a sham and are taking their supporters as fools. This support for Better Together will backfire big time.

      Labour in Scotland have “done a Ratner”.

    215. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lesley-Anne says: 17 July, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      “Sorry for this cause I know it will make quite a few sick to their bottomโ€™s when they see this. I know it makes me sick to my bottom and seethe with anger as well.

      That is, without doubt, the biggest hypocrite I’ve seen in my fairly long life.

    216. TheHairyCaber says:

      A little further down in the same article, only an overpaid, bored hack could make this up.

      “But if there is one aspect of the independence campaign that has contributed to its expected defeat, it has been its (the SNP I am guessing) dishonesty towards the Scottish public.”

      So tell us Daily Express, have you issued any kind article which points out Juncker’s never meant Scotland at all; but rather Eastern European expansion? No, well there you have it; the pot calling the kettle black.

    217. Paula Rose says:

      Thepnr – don’t be silly dear, there will not be a No vote.

    218. Paula Rose says:

      A self-fulfilling prophecy – Yes.

    219. O/T
      After all the pish from our own journawhores this is from a real journalist.

    220. Thepnr says:

      @Paula Rose

      I know it it will be a Yes vote, just wanted a wee dig and to use the Ratner comparison ๐Ÿ™‚

    221. Paula Rose says:

      Thepnr – that’ll be your tasteful medallion. Oops are we on the main thread?

    222. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Scot Goes Pop says the Herald figures have Yes/No on 44/56, from pollster that was previously on 41/59.

    223. Paula Rose says:

      Time for bed – tea leaves say currency, for those who wonder, I’m strictly ballroom.

    224. Thepnr says:

      Thanks for that Morag.

    225. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr, do you have a yes Saltire flag

    226. Thepnr says:

      ronnie I do, but tomorrow I’m giving it to Hood as a thank you for the plaques. If you have a spare I’d be pleased to get it.

    227. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Thepnr, you have now 2 even give one to John King, I,ll phone for your address is that ok at this time of nite

    228. Lesley-Anne says:

      FoS, to be fair flights all over the world do seem to regularly fly over war torn areas. That said it was on a recognised flight route.

      The other point I’d make is that like every other business these days airlines will do what they can to save money and in this case to try and avoid overflying East Ukraine would involve a longer more convoluted flight.

      Up to this point overflying war zones like Ukraine have not, for the most part, been viewed as dangerous. I suspect that this has been, up until today’s tragedy, because most war zones that are over flown have involved for the most part just ground forces. In this case we are now into a different arena, pardon the unintended pun here. Prior to today’s inexcusable incident there have been a number of aircraft that have been shot down by missiles over East Ukraine but these have been military aircraft and at a far lower altitude/height. What has happened today,I think closes the door permanently on any aircraft flying from Amsterdam, Brussels, Copenhagen etc the great circle routes from Europe to the Far East region of Kuala Lumpur, Singapore etc. In my view flights from Europe to the Kuala Lumpur/Singapore area of the Far East will involve a longer flight than what is already a substantially lengthy flight.

      I agree with you there Robert. Just as well this photo did not appear before his debate with Joan McAlpine in Eaglesfield last Thursday cause I’d have had a real go at him over this as well as the other points I drove home. ๐Ÿ˜›

    229. Jim says:

      They said devolution would kill Independence stone dead now we are going to be having a referendum. They were wrong then and they will be wrong on the 18th.

    230. Andrew Parrott says:

      New TNS-BMRB poll out. Yes 44% No 56%. The best result for YES yet from this polling organisation. Previous YES high on TNS-BMRB was 41%. Details soon on Scot Goes Pop.

    231. Jim says:

      Anybody got the words to the poem read out at the pacific quay anti-bias protest, the one about Scotland’s children?
      I thought it was brilliant..

    232. Ian Sanderson says:

      OT on this thread but this article on Bella is magnificent ,,, Should be read and shared via FB, Twitter and email to all your contacts on both sides of the debate…

    233. RogueCoder says:

      Re: TNS poll.

      This is it folks, the beginning of the end of indyref. Yes is coming on strong as generational Labour voters begin to desert the No camp. No word on women yet – need the raw data – but I’ll bet you they have moved as well.

      The grassroots and the positive message are paying dividends.

    234. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      That article on Bella that Ian just linked to is absolutely superb. I wonder if Wings could get permission to re-publish it, simply to get it to a wider readership?

    235. Carol Jardine says:

      @Flower of Scotland
      Re postal vote. I was also a postal voter (until last week).
      Was given the same advice as you. I’m in Edinburgh. SEnt in my signed letter and received confirmation within a few days that I’m back to being a personal voter.
      Hope this helps …

    236. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I feel that a personal vote is more secure. Also, I’m looking forward to the experience of going to the polling station to vote for my country’s independence.

    237. YESGUY says:

      I like Alex Salmond.

      Derek Bateman interviewed him on his broadcast blog and wee Eck showed his cheeky side. He’s the only politician i have heard answering “aye ” during the chat , he was relaxed and gave us a wee glimps of how he grew up.

      I think this is a man with ambition sure but he is so pro Scotland and i trust this man with the future ahead. The haters are often blind to his ways believing the MSM but he is the most trusted politician in the UK fact.

      He also has a very good team around him. He got rid of the looneys and built up SNP well.

      I cannot feel anything but contempt for any labour MP’s ditto the Lib

      I would consider green Paula but they’re not quite leaders yet ,,, in time maybe.

      I’m with Thepnr. The country will need a steady hand , Snp are in and the whole country is buzzing. Wee Eck for Prime minister or Nichola ?? She’s ex CND the nukes will be off if she has her way.

      Or maybe Stu . YES he’ might just get my vote

      (subtly din’t even mention Tory , why would i ?)

    238. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      Stu in politics? Heaven forfend.

    239. Thepnr says:

      Ohhh Morag you are naughty. I never knew the meaning of forfend and would have expected forbid.

      forfend: avert or prevent (something evil or unpleasant).


    240. Adrian B says:


      Stu isn’t a party politics person – I am sure that he has also stated that here in the past.

      I am sure that we are going to see many within the wide Indy range of groups with an interest in our future working hard. Some of these people may wish to stand for parliament. I think that we will see more choice at the nest Scottish elections.

    241. handclapping says:

      The advantages of being a Minister’s daughter, you know how to swear politely.

      What would be the advantage in having our poacher turn gamekeeper?

    242. Jim says:

      @Ian Sanderson

      Great article but maybe could have been titled:
      “Turkeys vote for Christmas”!

    243. braco says:

      Hi again everyone. Just back in the flat and would like to really thank everyone for there great help in hunting down those aye right cards. I have responded over on quarantine.

      Cal, it was a pleasure to meet you (and your son) on Sunday too. I have been cajoling folk tonight to get ourselves out there on to the doorsteps. We are going to organise a visit from an experienced canvasser to give a wee talk to folk to instill a bit of confidence and perhaps a few pointers. So if you fancy a trip down to Largs again one evening to repeat our conversation with a group of willing but scared prospective canvassers you would be made most welcome! I have been telling them about our chat and I think it’s made an impact. Don’t worry about it though if you cant as I know it’s probably not possible. It was just a thought as you really demystified it for me and I think your experience and attitude could really impact on the more wary of the volunteers here in Largs. We will be out there very shortly come what may though, that’s for sure! ๐Ÿ˜Ž

      And to everyone else who left me a welcoming message, well thanks , it’s really great to be home again and ‘back in the body of the (wings) kirk’ . With communities like this pulling together for YES how can we possibly lose? See scotgoespop! Xxx

    244. YESGUY says:

      Thanks for the link Ian Sanderson

      What a brilliant article. Peter A is a very interesting writer. Everyone must read it. It;s the YES side “PROJECT FEAR”

      I’ll be trying out tmoz if i can find a NO’er .

      Vote No and it all gets blamed on you .

    245. Jim says:

      Here is what else awaits Scotland:

    246. Cuilean says:

      What proven UK safety? 07 07 2005 London bombings? Glasgow Airport?

    247. Cuilean says:

      What proven UK safety? 07 07 2005 London bombings? Glasgow Airport attack?

    248. Cuilean says:

      What proven UK safety? 07 07 2005 London bombings? Glasgow Airport attack?

    249. john king says:

      In two weeks along with my wife I shall be visiting the beutiful county of Cheshire where we have rented a lovely cottage on a working farm where we can see the cows being milked, and Im reliably informed by my good wife the farmer will let us try our hand at milking one of his gentler cows by hand,

      We shall be visiting National trust properties (of which there are many in Cheshire) I am particulary looking forward to visiting Biddulph Grange for the first time.

      Oh hang on,I forgot,
      that’s my letter to the Express,

      My pre mission report to high command in Bute house.

      I will along with another operative who for the purposes of the operation I married 38 years ago to maintain the security of our mission will infiltrate the enemy camp with a view to spreading fear and dissent in the enemy population, my co agent and I have had to under go years of training to bury our distaste for the people we shall be observing, and we will smile at them as if we were one of them in spite of wishing them ill all the time.
      If my fellow agent and do not return from this mission please ensure the offspring of our cover marriage complete their agent training so they can follow in our footsteps, which be easy to do as our names will be in the visitor books. signed Hamish McTavish (not my real name)that should convince them!

    250. CameronB Brodie says:

      Best of luck 00. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Johnny Rivers – Secret Agent Man

    251. Tattie-bogle says:

      john king
      sleeper cells shall awaken the caramel log is open i repeat the caramel log is open.

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s a hugely significant admission and is a backtrack from previous statements from him, that support would be lost to Scottish farming in the event of a Yes vote. He has now conceded that, in or out of the EU, Scotland can afford to support our industry.

      However, a much more significant answer to my repeated question to him was that the UK government could not, and would not, give any guarentee of support to agriculture in the event of a No vote and then a UK exit from the EU.

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      A few months old but still very relevant. Vote No for more graft like this.

    254. CameronB Brodie says:

      graft = corruption

    255. alexicon says:

      The UK Government has set up a website giving their reasons for staying in the UK.
      They’re open to questions, but I think it’s through twitter.
      Get asking folks.

    256. Haggis Hunter says:

      Better Together = Pro England Seperatists.
      Just using the Brit comparrison to Pro Russian Seperatists in Ukraine.

    257. caz-m says:

      The latest TNS Herald poll shows Labour voters who would vote YES sitting at 28%, up 7%. I would say the true figure is far higher than that. But at least TNS shows YES is moving in the right direction.

      Better Together still in denial.

    258. john king says:

      “sleeper cells shall awaken the caramel log is open i repeat the caramel log is open.”

      Can we change the activation code, I will give up my life for my country,
      but I draw the line at Tunnocks products! ๐Ÿ™‚

    259. CameronB Brodie says:

      So there we have it: not Patrickโ€™s ยฃ200 million; not the claimed ยฃ2.7 billion. But probably closer to ยฃ2 billion than ยฃ1 billion. If the right answer is ยฃ1.5 billion, that means ยฃ300 per Scot, or say ยฃ800 per average Scottish household. It is not big in relation to a lifetime of independence. But nor is it trivial. It might well be recouped by some of the efficiency gains in taxation and elsewhere that Patrick mentions. But such recoupment would be gradual and would not start until the one-off costs had all been incurred.

    260. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ever since Kate Barkerโ€™s 2003 review of housing supply it has been well understood that the supply of housing in Britain in general and in the South East in particular is morbidly inelastic. Rising prices just do not produce more house building in England and one of the results is ever more price volatility.

      Or we could just vote Yes, as continued concetration of population and employment in the south east, will make it harder for Scotland to compete for infrastructure investment (ditermined generally by passenger mile or user benefits).

    261. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John King

      Broadsword to Danny Boy, come in Danny Boy.

    262. Thepnr says:

      @john king

      Do you not see that if you kill him with the pill from the till by making with it the drug in the jug, then you need not light the candle with the handle on the gateau from the chateau!

    263. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Cameron B

      The increase in house prices in the SE of England is because of a supply imbalance in relation to demand.

      As many of the brownfield and larger infill sites are already owned, probably by potential builders, by not releasing these into the housing market, building or selling onto people who will build immediately, these same “speculators” control the market and release to maximise the present value of their future revenues.

      Somehow these speculative purchasers must be penalised for not building in a near timescale.

      Finally, of course, the absurd subsidisation to this area of the UK must be stopped and the absurd over centralisation of UK Gov administration and the City must be diffused around the Country. Germany shows what a federal structure can do and of course such a model, if it had been applied to the UK at the same time the UK imposed it on a post WW 2 Germany would have arguably not been fertile ground for a Thatcher type. We might have still had a manufacturing spectrum of some import.

    264. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Forgot to say, that there is not a snowball’s chance of that working now although it will be the dependentists last throw of the dice before the Referendum.

      When that is offered we might as well go down to Paddy Power and pick up our winnings.

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Over the last few decades, the developed world has been characterised by an unleashing of forces that have generated increasing inequality, precariousness for many and huge rewards for a few. Whether this continues or is reversed is fundamentally down to our political and institutional choices, irrespective of what unforeseen innovations science may bring.

    266. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bugger (the Panda
      I’m not disagreeing with you, but the housing shortage is due to a number of factors which all essentially contribute to a lack of supply of land for building on. This means that Scotland is subsidising inefficiencies in England’s housing market.

      Paul Cheshire โ€“ London School of Economics

      Paul Cheshire is on of the big brains that knows about this sort of stuff. He is Professor of Economic Geography at the London School of Economics. He is co-author, with Max Nathan and Henry Overman, of Urban Economics and Urban Policy: Challenging Conventional Policy Wisdom (Edward Elgar, 2014), and many more publications.

    267. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Cameron B

      I agree, the UK, as it currently stands, economically and more importantly politically, is unfixable.

      We need to get out before this whole fucking mess gets totally ungovernable, and the perps bugger off to Shanghai or Bahrain or some virtual shielded reality.

    268. CameronB Brodie says:


    269. “Cunning linguists from Liverpool”?

      Cannae lick that one.

      Kerry Gill is a man, not much of a man, but dipped and dripped in far right-wing tory dogma.

      Gill refuses to mention that his employer – the express – has a “letters page” that for countless years published “Opinion” versus SNP and Independence from LETTERS multiple contributors named Brian Allen.

      ALL SEVEN X Brian Allens who had 7 X Addresses, (???) but held a consistent venal opinion on everything ante- Scottish.

      Express “Rigging Opinion” is not a new phenomenom when their Editor does not require the norovirus to produce “Dire Ear” on a daily basis.

      When I complained about all 7 x Brian Allens being published daily, from 7 x different addresses – it was me who was barred from the “letters page” ?

      Many on this website can attest to such unremitting bias from all MSM

      Our campaign is taking fiscal effect, as the figures for readership is nose-diving among MSM.

    270. Jim McIntosh says:

      Re the UK Gov new “youdecide2014” website. Just paid a visit after hearing beaker talking about it on GMS. Only flicked through it. Mostly “might be”, “could be” rubbish, but one stuck out about fuel. When talking up the fuel duty freeze – “Pump prices are currently 16p per litre lower than they would have been because of the freeze”.

      Isn’t that the same as “under our govt you are paying less tax than you would have if we’d decided to put tax up”.

    271. Robert Peffers says:

      @Morag Graham Kerr says: 18 July, 2014 at 12:35 am:

      “I feel that a personal vote is more secure”.

      Keep in mind that the shock Glenrothes result for Labour came along with the proven vanishing forever of ballot boxes and further suspicions of proxy votes made on behalf of residents in local churchyards and wee jars of ashes on Fife mantles.

    272. MochaChoca says:

      I’ve never noticed an article on the Scotsman site that has comments disabled before, but their article about the Sept 13th Orange Order march has just that.

      They must be predicting the unionist agenda taking a real thrashing over it.

    273. Tommy Kane says:

      I see that the Electoral Commission and by insinuation Charlie Kennedy get a real doing about ยฃ2.4 m gift from a convicted con man. These are the people we have to trust for a fair referendum. Don’t think so

    274. Grant says:

      Why do the BT supporters keep bringing anti-english sentiment back in to the argument, as a Scot it both annoys and disgusts me.

    275. Adrian B says:

      Why do the BT supporters keep bringing anti-english sentiment back in to the argument, as a Scot it both annoys and disgusts me.

      Think how 10% of the Scottish population feel about this statement too. It must really grind them knowing that it is all a pack of lies. There are two options on the ballot paper in September – only one offers a fair outcome for all.

      See this video link by the FT.

    276. Robert Peffers says:

      Thepnr says: 18 July, 2014 at 12:49 am
      “Ohhh Morag you are naughty. I never knew the meaning of forfend and would have expected forbid.”

      Oops! I see I’ll need to include more translations into English, (dae mair owersettins intil the Inglis), when I wander into our own Lowlands language, (stravaig intil wir ain Lallans leid). Perhaps even translate some dialects of our own Lowlands language to.(mibby owerset sam o oor tunes o wir ain Lallans leid tae).

    277. ian foulds says:

      “JimnArlene says:

      17 July, 2014 at 3:28 pm

      We are not anti-English, we are anti-Westminster rule.”

      That is the message to get over to ‘No’, the gutter press and the DKs

    278. gordoz says:

      Couldn’t miss this one – used to read the express about 6 yrs ago but had to stop reading it for obvious reasons, but the main one was the ‘bile & acrimony’ spouted from one ‘Rule Britannia’ Nationalist Kerry Gill (aka: the ‘tres jolly’ Hickey (NOT)

      Gill is part of the very lazy establishment ‘journo light’ problem, which is killing the Scottish press.

      Put it this way Better Together / ‘NO Fanx’ just love one GB Loyalist Kerry Gill (aka Hickey : Complete tripe).

    279. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 18 July, 2014 at 7:00 am

      graft = corruption

      That’s owersettin frae USAsian intil Inglis, (translation of USA English into Standard English).

      For the life of me I cannot come up with a direct, single word, translation into Lallans Scots.
      Bealin; mankit;daised;atterie but these are all mainly corruptions of the flesh

    280. John Young says:

      To protect the establishment – In the name of the Law?

    281. Flower of Scotland says:

      Thanks Carol, Morag and Robert for your advice about votes!

    282. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      You got me thinking. ๐Ÿ™‚

      Pochling as in to pochle? Chorying as in to chorie?

    283. Robert Peffers says:

      If anything highlighted the depth of the slump in the state of Scottish journalism the news item today from across the borders is it. The female Labour MP, Helen Goodman, is the object of great media attention after grave insults to the Tory Party newly promoted Ministers.

      What was her heinous crime?
      She remarked that the, “Most interesting thing about them was their choice of clothes”. This hits headlines throughout the United Kingdom and gets much TV and radio airtime.

      Rather puts into perspective the MSM and Scottish broadcasters almost total blackout of Alistair Darlings accusations that all supporters of an independent Scotland are blood and soil nationalists a.k.a. We are all Nazis. What a shameful bunch of numpties these pretendy journalists really are.

      Imagine their plight in the aftermath of the referendum? No matter how the vote turns out they are almost certainly going to be unemployable in any area of Britain. If it is a YES victory they are toast and no one wants them. If no then when the cruel hard facts of what the no voters have done to Scotland dawns upon the no voters they will be only too ready to find someone else to carry the can โ€“ who better than the broadcasters and journalists who misled the no voters.

      Like post WWII Germany where it was not possible to find a living former NAZI party member, or even a supporter of Herr Hitler, it seemed they, to the last person, had all died for their cause.
      Like hell they did, and I’ve met a few since who, (usually when, (they), were drunk), and let the mask slip.

      Post referendum No voters will be even harder to find no matter how the vote goes. For no matter what else this referendum will be the real UK game changer since 1707.

      The universally promised austerity measures of the entire spectrum of Westminster parties will follow a NO victory and the NO voters of Scotland will give us all what no voters wished upon us.

    284. kipk says:

      Interesting thing about a lot of comments re “need to live side by side after the vote” is the inference that NO will win. It is similar to the comments we see like “right, after that vote, that is it, the question is finished” often by NO supporters. Well, I say to them, the reason there will be no acrimony and why it will be finished is because Scotland is going to vote YES in September. Therefore, the only people causing division after that will be disgruntled people like the ones offering up this piffle as intelligent commentary. So, as long as they can their drivel all will be well in an independent Scotland.

    285. Chic McGregor says:

      I posted a couple of image only links earlier and they seem to have disappeared. Is that not allowed by Akismet or whatever its called?

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      Chic McGregor
      I don’t think the Rev. has the time to read all the comment now, so you’ll need to contact him directly, if you were addressing him, of course. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    287. mr thms says:

      “Can I bring my flag?

      Absolutely. It wouldn’t be referred to as the “Friendly Games” if they banned all flags.

      There are a few restrictions, however. The rules are…

      You are NOT allowed to enter a Games venue with any flags or banners larger than two metre by two metres. And you can’t take in lightweight handles longer than one metre.

      So, dig out your Saltire, St George’s Cross, Y Ddraig Goch (that’s the red dragon) or whichever team’s flag you were planning to bring, and get measuring.”

    288. Will Podmore says:

      Devereux, I detest the Daily Express.
      Sorry heedtracker, I think this comment of yours is bigoted : “The real horror show in all of this has been the whole of teamGB media and all led on by the absolutely horrendous BBC. Theyโ€™ve been an eye opener alrightee, North Korea must watch and weep at the sheer power of the great British liggers in their ยฃ500 million Pacific Quay giant glass box of No.”
      Bugger (the Panda), many of us south of the border hate Westminster rule too, and together we can beat it, divided, we all lose.

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