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Wings Over Scotland


The worst of the worst

Posted on June 12, 2014 by

We spent much of yesterday evening trying to actually track down the “vicious barrage” of vile cybernat abuse that Labour and “Better Together” activist Clare Lally says she was subjected to after being revealed to be rather less of an “ordinary” member of the public than the No camp presented her as at its recent Glasgow rally, and which has received wall-to-wall media coverage.

As yet, we’ve drawn a blank. We’ve made repeated requests, some to people who’ve contacted us angrily claiming to be her friends or family members, for evidence of any abusive comments at all. All have been met with an abrupt outbreak of silence.

abuse

Scotland 2014 devoted almost its entire 30-minute show to the issue last night. To depict the terrible onslaught, the above tweets were all they could come up with. The entire affair, readers might feel, is starting to smell distinctly piscine.

The decision to blur the names of the “offensive” tweeters is curious in itself. These people have posted something in public, so it’s hard to see what purpose is served by obscuring them. One of the tweets – the Panini sticker album joke – is actually one of ours. Curiously the BBC has edited part of it out:

paninidoyle

If we now live in a world where jokily pointing out that someone’s been photographed with a lot of Labour politicians is beyond the pale of civilisation, goodness knows where that leaves most political discourse. We’re pretty sure everyone involved with Have I Got News For You ought to be looking at some stiff jail sentences, at least.

The middle one, of which the BBC have only shown one of two parts, came from a tweeter called Craig Wright. It wasn’t directed at Clare Lally at all, but at “Better Together” campaign director Blair McDougall, who’d been complaining loudly about supposed “attacks” on her:

mcdougallwright

We suppose, at a real stretch, calling someone a “Labour Party minion” (even when they ARE a member of the Labour Party) is, on an extremely mild and trivial level, a bit pejorative. But doing so in a conversation with a third party, not visible to anyone not following both people, is some way short of a campaign of intimidatory terror.

We also managed to track down the one tweet – so far, the only one we’ve found on the entire internet – that could actually be construed as an “attack” on Clare Lally. It was made by a user called Dave McCloskey:

lallymccloskey

Again, the tweet happened in a personal conversation, so wouldn’t normally be visible to other people. In any event Dave McCloskey has just 17 followers, and the tweet was re-tweeted only once, by an angry Unionist.

It’s very difficult to trace how any of these tweets could have come to Clare Lally’s attention at all, let alone reduced her to a quivering, tearful wreck. None were directed to her personally. Even if she’d gone onto Twitter and actively searched for her own name, it only appears in one of them, a light-hearted joke about football stickers.

Yet the media has uniformly presented – as an absolute unquestioned fact – that she was subjected to an intolerable outpouring of abuse, apparently without feeling any need to substantiate the assertion. It’s a step up even from the infamous Susan Calman incident, in which abuse that even Susan Calman herself said she hadn’t seen was reported as definite fact.

(And continues to be used to this day in “cybernat” witch-hunts.)

This site has always condemned the use of words like “Quisling”. They’re stupid and crude and counter-productive. Nevertheless, one idiot with 17 followers tweeting it to someone else who isn’t even the target of his ire does not a “barrage” make.

Our request remains open. If anyone has any evidence of ANY abuse being directed at Clare Lally we’d like to see it, and we will unequivocally condemn it. Until then, we reserve the right to call foul. In its absence no rational conclusion will be possible other than that “cybernats” – a pejorative term in itself – have been vilified and excoriated by politicians and journalists, yet again, on the basis of phantoms.

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230 to “The worst of the worst”

  1. Andrew Morton says:

    Nope, sorry, can’t help.

  2. R whittington says:

    To be fair, if you read some (but by no means all) of the comments on Wings re: Clare Lally they do go over the line somewhat. Neither side of the debate have a monopoly on viscious comments, but this should not be an excuse, and the debate should happen without getting personal.

  3. According to the BBC, Wee Ruthie is even to table a motion in Parliament on the back of this phantom “abuse”. Bean me up, Scottie!

  4. Chris Jack says:

    It seems pretty clear to me this morning that yesterday was all about trying to put women voters off Yes. Throw up a couple of women who support No – wait – and then claim that vile cybernats have abused them.

    Saw your interview on STV last night. Glad to see you robustly calling out the keich that Dalgety woman was spouting.

    Also, loved it when you brought up the blood and soil issue as well, the presenter and Dalgety went mental trying to keep you quiet at that point. Only time I saw this being raised yesterday – job well done.

  5. Iain says:

    Of course the really disgusting and vile thing about this whole affair is Labour’s willingness to use an ordinary, decent mother to first garner much needed credibilty on social issues, and then put her at the forefront of a divisive and politicised campaign. The term ‘tethered goat’ springs to mind.

  6. Ally says:

    For someone that was “attacked” – she would happily allow tv cameras from at least 2 national stations into her home, thus, exposing her & he lovely kids to all & sundry, that would likely not bother following much politics on social media.

    Would an “ordinary” mum from Clydebank normally do this with no political motive?

    Hmmmmm

  7. Training Day says:

    Just as important as the re-establishment of Scottish sovereignty is the notion that we cannot and will not be prisoners of ‘our’ rotten, corrupt MSM.

    We can never allow these people to have any sway over us ever again.

  8. Chris Darroch says:

    Excellent work as per.

  9. steviecosmic says:

    I literally felt sick at the coverage of this yesterday. The ease with which the media calmly overlooked the fact that Ms Lally has close ties with the Labour party was an appalling dereliction of duty, and an insult to the intelligence of every Scot. These people have nothing but contempt for Scotland is they think this behaviour is reasonable.

  10. As an “ordinary Mum” (I’m not I have actual bona fide Superpowers in the sock matching department)who was talking last night to an “ordinary Gran” …..the bit that bugged us most? That she couldn’t even accept an apology for a genuine mistake with good grace.

    My Mum told me she would be “black affronted” if I behaved so poorly and that she had “raised you up better than that”. I doubt history will cover her with honours.

    But now – now she won’t even cross my mind again – just not important enough to take up my head space with 90 something days to go.

  11. TheGreatBaldo says:

    A couple of things strike me

    How can a private e mail between a Comms Director and a hack (something which happens every day) inspire a torrent of hate ? If only the hack and Comms Director know about it….until hack splashes it on his papers front page.

    And for the sake of argument lets say Campbell Gunn DID intend to ‘smear’ Ms Lally, then surely he would have done so with a friendly hack at a friendly newspaper…you know just like Labour, Tories, Lib Dems etc do…

    So why on earth then IF he was indeed intending to smear would he pick arguably the most UNIONIST hack on the most UNIONIST of all newspapers to smear a supporter of the Union ?

    I’m kind of seeing some major flaws in the conspoiracy here…..do most of the MSM now wear tinfoil hats ?

  12. TD says:

    Well said Stu and good performances on the media yesterday. If anyone on the unionist side says “Yes campaigners did a bad thing” it appears to be immediately accepted as fact. Sarah Smith last night talked of abuse of Clare Lally, not as a query, but as an established fact and wanted to explore what was to be done about it. At no time did she question whether abuse had actually happened.

    I find it difficult to understand what is happening here. I would like to think that respected journalists – such as Sarah Smith – were themselves being duped by cynical politicians. If that is the case, it does not look good for them in terms of their journalistic skill, but at least it would leave their integrity intact. If, on the other hand, they are knowingly party to the deception and lies, then their integrity is in tatters and the Scottish people are being robbed of their right to a democratic process. Alec Salmond said that this process is an exemplar – I am not so sure when we have this level of misreporting.

  13. skooshbag says:

    This crap makes me laff. I tweeted about this Clare/Claire Lally basically calling out BT/SLab for fronting her as an ordinary mum when she clearly is the opposite. I applaud the fact that she is standing up for carers rights BUT whats getting on my goat is that ppl saying she is extraordinary. Why is that? Because she has a disabled child? Please, I know a few people with disabled kids and they only do what is expected of a mum.

    In my opinion true fault here lies with SLab and BT for flaunting her as an ordinary mum. If they had introduced her as what she is no one would have batted an eyelid

  14. bunter says:

    Abuse is unacceptable, but to accuse only one side as being at fault, especially by so called journalists from London based papers whose comment sections are truly vile and racist to Scots, is to defy belief.

    The media and BBC have crossed a line here.

    This is what happens when you are trying to have a debate, controlled by a biased media outwith a country’s borders, telling only one side of the story.

    Whatever way this vote goes, lets make it our mission to keep away from these publications and broadcast media and leave them to talk to themselves. As for SLab, if it is possible, they are even worse.

  15. heedtracker says:

    Crude fakery like this by BBC/ITV/Labour diverts Scotland’s attention from the actual debate and the bizarre conduct of Alistair Darling’s nazi Scotland rant last week, they hope.

    Does UK media anti independence Scotland brainwashing work? Here in Aberdeen, Vote No or else Press and Journal’s online poll closed yesterday with 75% YES win, which must really have them scratching their nappers now.

  16. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    Is anybody keep score of the number of actual physical attacks on supporters of one side or another in the campaign. My impression that actual events have shown that it is only Yes supporters being attacked by their opponents. This should also be pointed out in discussions regarding abusive behaviour in the referendum

  17. gerry parker says:

    @ Roddy at 10:52.
    She should be asked to produce evidence before the motion is allowed.

  18. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    It is a great pity actual attacks on Yes supporters don’t count, trifling as they obviously are compared to the obscenity of being incorrectly identified as the relative a Labour Lord Provost or Rowling’s harrowing £1 million donation ordeal.

    Nonetheless, perhaps eagle eyed Wings readers could tell me when the wall to wall media sh*tstorm over these assualts took place as for some reason I just can’t remember it?

    “An SNP MSP has been “attacked” during an exchange in a pub about the independence referendum.

    David Torrance, MSP for Kirkcaldy, was allegedly grabbed by the throat by another patron of the town’s Novar bar during an incident on Saturday night.

    It is understood Mr Torrance had been engaged in a discussion of independence with the other party when the reported incident took place.

    A spokesperson for Mr Torrance said: “This sort of thuggish behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable in any situation – the Yes campaign has made it clear that everyone must behave, and it is high time the No campaign did likewise.

    “It is a matter of public record that Nicola Sturgeon has been sent death threats on Twitter, a posting on the No campaign’s Facebook page talked about firing bullets into SNP leaders, appalling remarks about Alex Salmond’s dad were made on a Labour Party website, and in February a man was charged after making an online comment in which he threatened to assassinate the First Minister.”

    Also..

    “James McMillan, Elderly Scottish Man, Attacked ‘For Singing Pro-Independence Song’ In Edinburgh”

    We must of course gloss over the death threats as we can all feel sure of the even-handed way the unionist press and media would cover those were it leading No supporting politicians and not leading Yes supporting ones.

  19. Nana Smith says:

    I am truly disheartened by the whole media outpourings against democracy for Scots. Each day brings more dishonesty into the so called debate. It’s obvious the more crap they can generate the less the truth gets to the voters. STV are just as bad as the bbc and households rely too heavily on these institutions to give us the ‘facts’

    When the hell are yes and the snp going to step in…I’m getting angry now and its not good for my blood pressure

  20. gordoz says:

    Having viewed the TV evidence last night, pretty much agree with all of the above Rev.

    Now, lets do a classic BBC and move on. The sooner this ‘ordinary’ woman story drops out of the news the better.

    As you say ‘phantoms’ and online scrutiny quickly become non-stories and are super spun by the ever dutiful ‘journalistic manufacturing elves’ at the State braodcaster.

    We all know what the story was here; (BT manipulation of facts regarding suggested ‘people off the street with no political affiliation’) but we are not allowed to get the message effectivley out there as the BBC / Labour central will not permit this to happen. (clever deitting etc)

    Deflection has been their weapon effectivley used here and not helped by Mr Gunns blunder.

    The key here is the fact that the sincere apology; has not been accepted by the individual concerned and political mileage by Labour will result.

    So lets move on rather sharpish and don’t give this non story any more oxygen folks.

    (Particulary the hopelessly out of touch hyporcite & Labour UK stalwart John McTiernen – his assertions & performance last night plumbed new depths even for him )

  21. JC says:

    The real story here is that Better Together were trying to portray an active Labour Party member, who is part of the Shadow cabinet, as an “ordinary mum”. The fact that there is no real evidence of bullying doesn’t surprise me. I thought yourself and Ian MacWhirter did a good job last night on Scotland Tonight to try and bring some reason back to Scottish journalism.

    The Scotland Tonight presenter did herself no favours when she tried to defend Alistair Darling by claiming the New Statesman had unattributed its blood and soil comments – even though we now know that to be true; we heard him say it for ourselves!

    Seriously what is going on in this debate! It seems undeniable now that the MSM are hell bent on trying to obfuscate and misinform the misinfornable.

    Wings Over Scotland and others are doing a fantastic job of highlighting the utter contempt for the people of Scotland that the established media show day in day out.

  22. scottish_skier says:

    OT but worth it I believe:

    Survation VIs with change on last month from what I can see from tables.

    Holyrood:

    46(+2)% SNP
    28(-4)% Lab
    13(-2)% Con
    6(+1)% Lib
    3(+1)% UKIP
    3(+2)% Green

    Westminster:

    40(+3)% SNP
    32(-4)% Lab
    15(-3)% Con
    6(+2)% UKIP
    5(nc)% Lib
    2(nc)% Green

    Does Ed really want Scotland any more?

    Gives a majority of Scottish MPs as SNP
    33/59 or 54%

    Labour lose around half their number, down from 41 to 22.

    Just a few more % as per holyrood and FPTP would wipe out UK parties, giving the SNP a huge majority of Scots MPs.

    Enough to hold the balance of power in Westminster.

    Scots Labour MPs might be better going for indy.

    Tories / UKIP too lest the SNP stuff their UK EU ref plans…

  23. MJack says:

    Well, we know the latest narrative now. Put people, especially woman off going onto the internet to discuss self-determination. Make the cybernat websites seem like liers which shouldn’t be believed and hope someone from yes gets really upset and does something.

    We know we’re slowly winning though. They’ve lost the town hall debates, they’ve lost the factual arguments, they’ve lost the grassroots competition, they’ve lost the comedy and poster competition, they’ve lost the online argument too, so the only way to close it down is to demonise and poison the online debate.

  24. Lanarkist says:

    Followed a lot of this story and saw some critical comments but nothing abusive. It looks like a false flag attack on online media for various reasons.

    They have no control of the information and cannot shape the content.

    An effort to prevent undecided and No voters to seek out information online, classic project fear.

    Vilification of half the Scottish population in first efforts to undermine Independent Scotland’s viability by sowing discord, reinvention of tactics used before Act of a Union.

    Perhaps also a survey project to see if this might affect viewing stats, making people more wary of seeking out information or from feeling comfortable in submitting comments.

    It is interesting to see the heat they can generate over two rather innocuous themes whilst studiously ignoring the Newspaper vilification of online commenters, donators and Members of the Scottish Government.

    This smells of a set up to allow them to unleash their planned campaign of attack on the online media, the last thrashing around of the injured beast. Fabricating outrage only when it suits their side of the argument they are measly killing off their version of the broadcast media.

    Independence will also sound the death knell of many Newspapers in this country!

    Massive last ditch effort to shut people up, keep them away from Independence sites and try to grasp control of the agenda.

    Expect much worse to come!

  25. Doug Daniel says:

    Elaine – well said by your mum. Any amount of sympathy I might have had for Clare Lally completely went the second she decided to play up to the cameras. I’ve no time for that kind of self-indulgent nonsense, which I suspect is down to how I was brought up. And I particularly don’t have time for someone trying to deflect criticism by pointing to their children’s health problems. Having to deal with such a situation does not give someone carte blanche to do and say whatever they like in other areas of life.

  26. Rosa Alba Macdonald says:

    Well I did say on Facebook, that she was not, it would appear, and ordinary voter, that while the rights of carers and the needs of ASN children were indubitably issues requiring consideration and action, well for the Labour Carer Czar to comment on that, was appropriate but not the stance of an ordinary citizen, and that the NHS was not the issue in terms of the Union or Separation (or is the issue, but is a separate NHS body and one we do not want to go the way of the NHS in England); I do feel the story sits uneasy – and there is an element of exploitative sympathy vote. I revised my stronger comments about that, as I would also, as the mother of an ASN Child (less severe needs) absolutely use his case as an example of how services could be improved and to prevent other children suffering the failures in the system that he suffered. But that is not an Independence Ref. issue as such.

  27. a supporter says:

    Good for you Stu. You were not afraid to say it like it is. And the rest of us must do the same. We must never be afraid to call a spade a spade in this debate. Part of the KOK’s agenda is to try to take the sting out of the YES social media campaign by claiming racism, misogony, abuse et al for even the simplest critical coments because they are losing the argument on the internet by a mile.

    So campers if the person you’re attacking is a dolt, a liar, an abuser, whatever, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY SO. Just try to make sure of your facts. And this plea is especially directed to those Wet Nats who are apparently willing to believe every nasty thing the KOKS say about Cybernats and are willing to be shut down in the debate just because of a few mild insults.

    Stand up and fight the bastards because they do not have any qualms about fighting you.

  28. Dr Ew says:

    Internet abusers are out there, sad pseudonoymous trolls all, but hardly peculiar to the Independence Referendum and certainly not confined to the Yes side.

    The anonymity is, of course, one of the main drivers of abusive trolls not least because it provides cover to those out to sully the reputation of a particular stance by manifesting in a vicious, extreme form of that viewpoint.

    All that being true, it amazes me that BBC, STV and any newspaper has so far failed to produce a single example of online abuse directed at Clare Lally. Alan Cochrane was given much airtime brandishing a print-out of Campbell Gunn’s private e-mail questioning how she was being represented by the Labour Party and (presumably) the Daily Telegraph but aside from the vile slander that she was related to Pat Lally, I struggled to see anything that could be construed as abuse.

    The thing about Twitter, Facebook et al is that it logs the time of a post. There’s no getting away from it. So let’s see all the might of investigative journalism that is the BBC and STV track down these posts, then name and shame the trolls. Last year Panorama managed to nail a few headcases visiting the Facebook sites of recently deceased people, so surely it is not beyond the ability of Scotland 2014, Scotland Tonight and the Daily Mail to seek out these terrible people?

    I shall hold my breath in anticipation.

  29. joe kane says:

    Not forgetting Rev Stu, that Ruth Davidson claims their is a cause and effect between WOS blog posts and internet abuse against Clare Lally. She described the two on BBC2 Scotland 2014 (Wed 11 June) as having a “direct correlation”.

    What I found appalling about that Scotland 2014 edition was that Ruth Davidson was allowed to publicly defend women, carers and disabled people on our national TV unchallenged. All three groups have been subjected to the the biggest attack on their human rights in living memory by Davidson’s party of government at Westminster.

  30. Proud Cybernat says:

    Proud Cybernattery thoughts…..

    Seems we can’t even call the UKOKs on their outright lies without the MSM turning the whole thing around into an attack them. Is this their plan?

    This seems to me to have been a calculated setup from start to finish the motive being to target the female voter who is probably more put off with this sort of thing. The MSM won’t, of course, tell the truth of the matter–to them it’s job done.

    Yes, we need to expose their barefaced lies but we need to be chess players too and think at least three moves ahead, to make a move that exposes them but which the MSM cannot then twist.

    I cannot believe I am living in 21st century Scotland and writing such things about our press. Of course, whn the votes are counted and if No win, they will give it the ‘let’s forgive and forget’, ‘we’re all Jock Tamson’s bairns’, ‘we have to move forward now together’ etc, etc. After what this lot int he MSM are doing to undermine democracy in this country I will never forgive them. Ever.
    And that includes you too, BBC.

    They cannae fight fair ’cause they know they’d take a right tanking if they did.

  31. Kenny says:

    The story here was frustrating. As soon as the digging had been done and Bay Rok’s point that she was unrelated to Pat Lally had been confirmed, that bit at least should have been removed. I know it didn’t actually say she was (despite what Ruth Davidson says) but the implication was strong.

    However, when Scotland 2014 went to her house to see her quivering lip, they at least ought to have said “well Clare, any abuse IS awful…but isn’t it true that you’re a Labour activist who was involved in Johann Lamont’s leadership bid that she seemingly won, that you’re involved with the Labour

  32. Lorraine says:

    Someone on this very website, on another thread, is telling “jakey” rowling to “grow fekking up you Satanist bitch”.

    Is that OK do you think?

    Should somebody let the Been / DT / DM know about it?

  33. Geoff Huijer says:

    And yet the media themselves denigrate, vilify and spout a racist line alsmost daily.

    No story here…move along.

    I couldn’t care less if people called me names – Oscar Wilde said something along the lines of ‘the only thing worse than people talking about you is no-one talking about you.’

    I find this faux outrage appalling and have seen far worse tweets slagging off Wings – some people are scared of the truth.

  34. G H Graham says:

    Perhaps limiting the previous copy to only pointing out that the good lady was heavily embedded with Labour party policy would have sufficed.

    In another post, I declared that yesterday was one of those days when I genuinely hated the country I live in.

    A 6 hr flight, much less than what it would take to get to Disneyland, in Florida would take you to a world which we can barely imagine but for the gruesome anarchy that is Iraq, one that Britain helped make.

    It got a passing mention yesterday but the hundreds of thousands of people killed that preceded yesterday’s news didn’t merit a reminder.

    Instead, our “balanced” media fueled up with nitrous oxide levels of peurile outrage about, eh, well, an email.

    Why? It’s about control. Controlling western propaganda & western interests. Scotland’s argument about independence doesn’t fit well with the positioning of Britain & the USA in the world.

    Christians good, Muslims bad. West good, M. East bad. British nationalism good, Scottish nationalism bad, Right Wing good, Left Wing bad etc. It’s the simplistic, binary world, the British government & its Plasticine media would have you choose from.

    It’s easy to deliver propaganda when there are only two choices. Make one of them feel like a threat to the status quo & the chances are that folks will stick with what they know, even if that in itself feels uncomfortable.

    And in a classic demonstration of exaggerated propaganda puffery, the response to an error in an email might as well as been a story about a man in Glasgow found carrying a suitcase of weapons grade plutonium.

    And you know what? I’m no longer convinced that if we achieve sovereign independence, much of this crap will ever change, such has been the insidious encroachment of British propaganda right into the living rooms, work canteens & transit vans all across our country.

    We’re all victims.

  35. heraldnomore says:

    ‘Utterly vile’ isn’t it, at least I’m sure that’s how the state-funded broadcaster describes it yet. Calman was a thought that crossed my mind too.

    Now instead we could put together a greatest hits of the efforts on twitter of, say, George Foulkes, or Euan McColm. I’m sure you have an interesting back catalogue Stu.

    More importantly that’s the first wicket of this summer’s test cricket just fallen as I type, after quarter of an hour of the season. Yes I’ve switched over from Fred to hear about chocolate cake and trains, and the Sri Lanka shirt is freshly pressed.

  36. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Sorry to go off-topic and raise this other trifling matter, however it might, just might, have some bearing on the referendum. Perhaps even more so than a handful of stupid tweets and that a member of Labour’s shadow cabinet is not related to Pat Lally? You never know.

    It is Iraq that is burning right now so we need to raise our game and point out the very real and very dangerous consequences of continued Westminster warmongering so eagerly espoused by the likes of Brown, Blair, Cameron and their ilk.

    How long will we be mired in the next foreign ‘adventure’ when Westminster decides to back it? Ten years? Fifteen? Twenty? How many young scots servicemen and women will lose their lives the next time and how many civilians will die?

    Life or death decisions made for us by westminster politicians who we might not even have voted for. Never forget this referendum has consequences that the No campaign will never want to talk about while they distract the public with their smears and lies.

    Do you want to live in a country that would blindly follow a U.S. President into invading Iraq or a country that makes it’s own decisions based on humanitarian concerns rather than neo-conservative propaganda?

    Remember that choice as Iraq continues to burn and the chaos envelops Afghanistan.

  37. I think morning call, on radio scotland,showed that most folk except there will some online stuff.

    To behonest I have had worse to my face while canvassing,and last week 2 lovely ladies at our YES stall were shouted at(they were on there own on the stall)

    I have had folk saying ‘why are you voting YES if your English?’,but honestly this sort of thing has been going on since the so called ‘poison pen letter’was first described.

    Lets just get on with the real mind changing stuff,like at summerhall in Edinburgh tonight,and get on with winning this!

  38. Kenny says:

    …Party in other ways and so you’re not really just an ordinary mum?”

    That would have been journalism. Challenge both sides. Make them prove their aims. Ask for examples of the worst abuse and if, as Stu notes, there’s not much to it then say “don’t we all just need thicker skins.” I swear, anyone watching last night who didn’t know the story would think we’d made her watch as her child’s eyes were pecked out by vicious cybernat chickens.

  39. prj says:

    steviecosmic says:
    12 June, 2014 at 10:57 am
    “The ease with which the media calmly overlooked the fact that Ms Lally has close ties with the Labour party was an appalling dereliction of duty”.

    The whole episodes was very well planned. It was easy for BT to stage a lie and get a response and of course the media knowing who she is and was happy to report this performance, which met there unionist agenda. So it was not a dereliction of duty. This was a means to an end which didn’t need evidence. To portray the Yes campaign as evil was the desired outcome and they got a bonus with Campbell Gunn’s email. Damage done.

  40. Cath says:

    The Scottish government should really take all these “cybernat abusers” in hand before this thing gets any more out of control. Demand that any abusive tweet is forwarded to a Police Scotland special “cybernattery” branch for investigation. And any that are deemed actionable immediately prosecuted, with any actual threats ending up in a jail sentence until November.

    It’s a bit Kim Jong Il as a response to some daft folk on social media but it’s what the media want and would prove that Salmond was really clamping down on such things. and the NO side would be delighted.

  41. Lanarkist says:

    Followed a lot of this story and saw some critical comments but nothing abusive. It looks like a false flag attack on online media for various reasons.

    They have no control of the information and cannot shape the content.

    An effort to prevent undecided and No voters to seek out information online, classic project fear.

    Vilification of half the Scottish population in first efforts to undermine Independent Scotland’s viability by sowing discord, reinvention of tactics used before Act of a Union.

    Perhaps also a survey project to see if this might affect viewing stats, making people more wary of seeking out information or from feeling comfortable in submitting comments.

    It is interesting to see the heat they can generate over two rather innocuous themes whilst studiously ignoring the Newspaper vilification of online commenters, donors and Members of the Scottish Government.

    This smells of a set up to allow them to unleash their planned campaign of attack on the online media, the last thrashing around of the injured beast. Fabricating outrage only when it suits their side of the argument they are measly killing off their version of the broadcast media.

    Independence will also sound the death knell of many Newspapers in this country!

    Massive last ditch effort to shut people up, keep them away from Independence sites and try to grasp control of the agenda.

    Expect much worse to come!

  42. Just to follow on from my last post,Wings is doing a fantastic job,so im not knocking any of the great websites we have.

    It all helps,canvassing is not for everyone(believe me!) so even if you cant help on the street carry on posting online.We are being lied to everyday and websites like this one are changing minds each day.

  43. biggpolmont says:

    For a young mum to do what she does is extraordinary! most young mums that I know are knackered (or so they tell me) after a days housework looking after the kids,doing the shopping,cooking,washing, ironing,the school run,the kids clubs,etc,etc never mind look after a child that is disabled too. Ms Lally also manages to fit in campaigning for disabled and however often it happens to meet and advise her labour collegues on disability . She really is extraordinary

  44. Ian Mackay says:

    If that Survation VI poll is correct on Westminster Voting Intention then it is bad news for Unionists indeed.

    A Scottish majority of SNP MPs?

    Wasn’t that always supposed to be the trigger point for Scotland’s independence (before the Scottish Parliament was set up and the referendum process agreed)?

  45. creag an tuirc says:

    So do you think that the MSM interviewing Rev yesterday was part of a plan “Get this odius Rev chap on the air to back up our vile cybernat claims” and it backfired? Scotland2014 didn’t broadcast their interview because it didn’t follow their narrative. Anyway, well done yesteday Rev.

  46. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Cath

    “It’s a bit Kim Jong Il as a response to some daft folk on social media but it’s what the media want and would prove that Salmond was really clamping down on such things. and the NO side would be delighted.”

    And when a few No cybernutters are banged up for their vile cybernuttery, I can see already how the Scottish MSM & BBC would spin that one:

    “Salmond jails No supporters to ensure Yes victory.”

  47. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Cath

    “It’s a bit Kim Jong Il as a response to some daft folk on social media but it’s what the media want and would prove that Salmond was really clamping down on such things. and the NO side would be delighted.”

    And when a few No cybernutters are banged up for their vile cybernuttery, I can see already how the Scottish MSM & BBC would spin that one:

    “Salmond jails No supporters to ensure Yes victory.”

  48. North chiel says:

    Scottish skier could you possibly extrapolate these Westminster
    And holy rood figures to give us a possible referendum result for each of
    Westminster and holy rood voting intentions using the latest poll info on
    Percentages of labour Tory lib dem green and ukip voters likely to vote
    Yes .obviously if there is a small percentage of SNP voters liable to vote
    No (I can never figure this out), then the result should be very interesting
    And more accurate than relatively small sample polls

  49. Doug Daniel says:

    The BBC seems to have essentially declared all-out war on the Yes movement. In fairness, if your only concern is preservation of the union, then any punishment you might receive after the referendum (and it would be after the referendum – it’s too near the referendum now for any action to be taken to censure the BBC beforehand) is worth it.

    For those who are in favour of the union, there is nothing to be gained by playing fair. So, they’re not. They can wind us up with their one-sided pish, safe in the knowledge that we’ll react and give them more material to show how terrible the Yes campaign is. If the BBC went as far as saying “tonight, we discuss how Alex Salmond is a baby-eating fascist dictator and why voting for independence will give you AIDS” there’s nothing that could be done about it. The mechanisms that are supposed to ensure BBC impartiality do not work quick enough (if they work at all), and the media couldn’t give a toss either.

    So fuck them. We take the message directly to the people, by chapping on folk’s doors, phone canvassing, and street stalls. We simply bypass the media. It’s what we’ve been doing so far, and it’s what we’ll continue to do. Independence will be won in spite of the media, and we’ll certainly not be forgetting what they’ve done afterwards.

  50. AG says:

    Yesterday for me was a new low for the Better Together campaign and one clearly orchistrated when you see the results of the poll published in the Daily Record today.

    The comments made by the likes of Johnan Lamont and Baroness Liddell are only stoking the flames and clearly aimed at convincing the woman votes to either stick with the No vote or move to no, at a time when all polls are suggesting a move in the direction to yes.

    Clearly the MSM have not intention of having balanced arguments and I am glad that there are sites like this one setting things straight.

    My hope is that people can see through the lies and get fed up with the muck slinging from the No Campaign but I fear that this is only the start and it’s going to get a lot worse, especially as the polls narrow further.

  51. Marcia says:

    Some really good enjoyable twitter accounts giving out information in a fun way.

    https://twitter.com/Yeskittens/status/476471815897120770

  52. galamcennalath says:

    Like most folk here, I worry sometimes about the effect on voters has the MSM relentlessly spews their biased views on everything.

    As for personal abuse, it is important to remember that while individuals from both sides go overboard online, it is only one side which ‘plays the man not the ball’ in the MSM.

    On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence that the Nae Sayers negativity and tactics are working. The latest Survation poll appears to show further movement to Yes.

    To adopt the Nae Sayers militaristic language ‘Steady the Buffs’ , stay positive, stay cool and keep chipping away at DKs in the real world!

  53. Harry says:

    I thought Rona last night was very good especially with McTernan. Brian Taylor did mention the blood and soil comments twice, lunchtime and evening, and of course Stu got a good mention in later. Didn’t see Scotland 2014.

    If there was vile abuse on her Facebook, let’s see it. There was certainly little abuse on twitter, plenty of criticism yes. Is that now classed as abuse? Apparently a Yes supporter picture framer was attacked in his shop in Edinburgh yesterday by a No supporter. Any mention of that in the media?

    Caught a bit of Morning Call this morning, three Yes supporters in a row. The lady from Perth was lovely. And just as she mentioned her English husband research, which included the McCrone Report, a car with a yes sticker pulled in next to me at the lights!

  54. chalks says:

    It would maybe affect women if they actually gave a fuck.

    They don’t though, they care little for political sideshows like this, I couldn’t really give a monkeys about it, this has been going on for two years now and I blank it out.

    BT’s campaigners are all party officials/on the payroll

    Poll looks good, been noticed a shit load of car stickers up here in aberdeen/shire, I think we’re winning, I’ve a bet on for over 55% so let’s keep it going folks and I’ll buy you a beer on the 19th in the centre of Edinburgh.

  55. Les Wilson says:

    It is really quite simple, this was a set up planned by Slab to create the dust storm that has occured.
    I do not know for sure if they just played Lally or if she herself was compliant. So while that may look likely, there is an “element” of she was being used.

    It was well planned and further orchestrated by the compliant media et al. All to attempt to blame it on the SG,and the Yes followers, to enable them call for resignations. It was just too much of a orchestrated gift, that the whole thing stinks of set up.

    I feel certain, this is the case.

  56. Colin Mccartney says:

    Time to put Ms Lally back under her stone.
    The BT planned stunt and follow up has been blown away by todays poll in the Record.
    True Labour supporters and voters are grasping the reality of what they will get if they vote No, and they don’t like it.

  57. heedtracker says:

    For the record, yesterday’s Press and Journal 75% YES majority poll result has not made todays P&J print edition. Maybe tomorrow. P&J’s interesting as it’s a massive UKOK propaganda machine relentlessly attacking anything and everything they can think of about Scotland running Scotland but for balance they throw in a story like someone holding up a Saltire on top of Kilimanjaro.

    https://archive.today/etQqc

  58. Geoff Huijer says:

    I almost spluttered coffee over the laptop (obviously in my dark and dingy basement) when the Rev was asked if he had experienced abuse.

    I was thinking…’go on say it Stu’, – ‘There’s not enough time on this show to go through them all.’ But, the response they got was along the lines of ‘these things happen and there have only been two that I felt necessary to involve the Police with.’

    Mature, adult, sober response. Not something we’ll ever see from our current ‘professional’ media outlets.

  59. Cath says:

    “It seems pretty clear to me this morning that yesterday was all about trying to put women voters off Yes. Throw up a couple of women who support No – wait – and then claim that vile cybernats have abused them.”

    Yes, that’s exactly what it’s about. And it works, to an extent. I’m not the target audience for the propaganda – that’s undecided and wavering no voters – but even I was feeling yesterday, ‘ffs is it really worth it with all this aggo being created?’

    But in the cold light of day, as a woman this kind of tactic makes me absolutely furious. It’s the most mysoginistic tactic you can possible use. Apart from treating women as particularly stupid, it’s basically saying we’re all delicate little flowers who can’t be challenged or questioned. It does massive harm to the prospects of women in politics and life generally if we’re treated as “different” have to be handled with kid gloves for fear we’ll become hysterical and start crying.

    It’s basically the worst type of misogyny that sets women’s rights to be treated as equal back. Which is pretty much where the current UK elite belong.

    The whole issue with women not feeling able to take part in politics and feeling excluded is a result of precisely this kind of treatment and tactic by the political elites. Anyone, but particularly any women, involved in this propaganda stunt should be ashamed.

  60. Gillie says:

    Clare Lally was being touted as an ‘ordinary person’ by Better Together and the MSM.

    That was a lie, she is a Labour activist with a £40,000 ramp outside her council home.

  61. elaine mullen says:

    Please can someone explain to me why no-one has been brought to task over the continuous use of the word natsi to describe anyone who supports an independent Scotland. I find the use of the word incredibly offensive and considering we have just commemorated the anniversary of the D-day landings, doubly so, yet no-one in the mainstream media ever mentions this type of pro independence abuse. If any other group of people were called this name there would be a public outcry yet it seems acceptable to call pro independence supporters it.

  62. Jim Mitchell says:

    This is an excerpt that I have lifted from an e mail from Blair McDougal.

    All too predictably JK Rowling has come under totally unacceptable attacks from nationalist extremists (sorry in advance for the strong language). What has been really disturbing over the past 24hours is that it has been discovered that personalised attacks against No voters are being directed from inside the First Ministers office. It is a reminder that we are up against people who will do anything to get what they want in the referendum.
    Will you stand with JK Rowling and help us stand up against the nationalists? Whatever you can give, big or small will help us to speak up for the majority of us who want to remain in the UK.

    Is he allowed to make claims like this?

  63. Helena Brown says:

    I was getting hot under my collar last night when for the umpteen times in as many days a white van decided it could get out at the end of our Cul de sac. I was gently told by my long suffering other half, it had a YES stick on the back, so all was forgiven.

  64. TheItalianJob says:

    @Headtracker at 11.06 says:

    “Here in Aberdeen, Vote No or else Press and Journal’s”.

    Brilliant. This is why I love this site.

  65. Ruaridh Watson says:

    Just say Naw
    11:20 AM on 12/06/2014
    Mocking a disabled child is unforgivable. Seems they don’t fit the “blood and soil” Natz agenda.

    From the Scotsman website. What do you think might have provoked this comparison, eh?

  66. Ian Brotherhood says:

    FMQs-

    SPEAKER: Willie Rennie.

    WILLIE RENNIE: Madam Speaker, I have this very morning received a Tweet from someone called Big Ginger Hairy Highland SNP Supporter, and if you’ll allow me to quote, he says ‘You, Rennie, are a hopeless fanny’. Madam speaker, will the First Minister finally rein these people in?

  67. Les Wilson says:

    O/T ref North sea oil here is an extract from the UK energy minister this morning contained in a press release from Premier oil. Awarded by UK to start a new field in the North sea.
    Here is what the minister said.

    “Michael Fallon, Minister of State for Energy, commented:
    “The Catcher area development shows that there continues to be an extraordinary level of interest in North Sea oil and gas, which is excellent news for industry and for the whole of the UK. The project represents over £1bn of investment and almost all of the subsea expertise and equipment needed for this development is being supplied by British companies right across the country.”

    It certainly does not go with all the gloom and doom, bye Danny Alexander and all the Unionist side, does it?
    It is strong evidence that oil WILL NOT be falling from 2017, quite the opposite, Scotland IS, in a strong place, who would have thought it!

  68. katsoft says:

    Been reading about “abuse” to Ms Lally and Ms Rowling being banded about as fact when little or no proof is presented.Why is it that BT’s campaigning reminds me of Germany in the thirties when one side could say anything i.e. The Weirs are “stupid” very little adverse coverage of that. JK made her position clear months ago and has the right to give her taxed income to who she likes, she should however not get blanket coverage in media without a right of reply from the other viewpoint,as should happen in a free press and democracy In any case any donor to either side should not be allowed to spout off their reasons.
    Unless there is a need for publicity?
    As for Ms Lally in a way I feel sorry for her, not because of “monstering by cybernats”{or more likely a saddo who probably thinks aliens inhabit the mountains} but because she fell for the line from her sponsers in the Labour/BT campaign, it was as if they were setting her up to be found out knowing full well it would cause a wee stushie which of course they would blow up into a major political issue and allow them to damn the Government.
    All the while the media lapdogs spout their line out to us all and the Yes side is vilified yet again.
    Just like thirties Germany.
    Control the press and you control the people.

  69. R whittington says:

    @Gillie I’m not really sure what the disabled ramp has to do with anything. It’s that type of comment I was referring to earlier.

  70. Robert Graham says:

    well its get down and dirty time nothing is beyond this lot so be prepared for more of the same even worse probably in a normal world journalists would investigate this even the supposed abuse of j.k.rowling it could well be true and i hope everyone condemns this abuse this was a setup from the start ok make a contribution but leave out the manufactured half truths that invite a response from well who knows who sent the messages abusing her this lot have previous on this and the MSM choose to ignore this as per usual well we have a mountain to climb folkes oh well press on we cant give in

  71. galamcennalath says:

    Geoff Huijer says:
    the Rev was asked if he had experienced abuse.
    Mature, adult, sober response. Not something we’ll ever see from our current ‘professional’ media outlets.

    Yes, that caught my attention too. Well done Stu on that especially.

  72. desimond says:

    It wont be long before Evil Alex and the SNP are accused of hiding the threats made by their army of winged monkey cybernatzis online.

  73. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    One of the easiest things to do to combat this manufactured outrage is to show how abusive the internet can be since it is, after all, the internet.

    I don’t just mean showing examples of labour, tory, UKIP or other political posters/tweeters going ballistic and hurling abuse hither and yon in the usual sites like Guido Fawkes, the Mail, Guardian, Torygraph etc. That would be far too easy.

    On seemingly innocuous subjects the levels of internet trolling and abuse can very quickly reach a critical mass which makes all of this stuff pale into comparison. You name it, they get upset over it. On youtube some of the comments on a music video will take on a ferocity far in excess of anything seen here. In forums dedicated to videogames the battle of supremacy between owners of one console over another take on a life or death significance as the abuse pours out. On movie sites an actors performance can instigate a fury hotter than a sun while which Movie or TV show is best in a franchise can lead to expletives and anger that would make a sailor blush. In fan fiction and shipping woe betitide those who question which famous male character would be best suited to which female. Whisper it quietly but even among Rowling’s fans there may even be quite vehement and ill-tempered disagreement over which books/characters are best and whether there should be new harry potter books. Hard to believe I know but true nonetheless.

    Here’s the killer point though. This is the internet we’re talking about and almost all scottish voters do actually have access to it so they already know all this.

    For that matter ask a mother who has child who plays videogames on a console online about bad language and trolling. Yeah, they know what you’re talking about allright. Where did he learn to swear like that? Must be his wee pals eh? 😉

    Sorry, but this stuff just won’t fly. Pointless abuse cheapens a debate but this stuff is so mild it makes a complete mockery of the labour and tory spinners desperately trying to work up outrage over it.

  74. Les Wilson says:

    Jim Mitchell says:

    Yes the can, as the game is rigged against us, we have no where to turn to ensure fairness. No one can help as they have a fortress around them, nothing serious can be done about them. As an example the Electoral Commission is utterly useless, yet Scotland cannot call in International Monitors, this is reserved so only Westminster can do it.

    Fat chance of that then. There is no democracy in Scotland. We continue to expose their lies, in line with Wings, Bella, NNS and more and social networks. However, that is it really. Our only was to really sort them out is to vote YES, no other option works for us.

  75. Norman Martin says:

    Well done last Stu, a star is born!
    IMHO Sarah Smith smirking during her interview with Tom Conti last night while he perpetuated the Scots hate The English myth popular with the London Scots gives her game away.

  76. Helena Brown says:

    Cath, I fear that those in political circles have to build a tough shell, one of the reason I did not go further with my political career such as it was. This was as far as I can see a definite ploy but those in Better Together or it was an almighty cock up, I rather think the former as I certainly do not think well of them and their campaign. Their intention was that someone would out her and then they could scream abuse. They certainly knew that people in YES would immediately say she was telling lies, a bout herself and about her allegations. Worked a treat, and we should guard against this happening again. Women are a lot tougher than the men and much nastier, they just say they descend into tears for sympathy.

  77. JGedd says:

    I seem to recall seeing at one time, perhaps on this site, a record of Britnat abuse on-line. Does that exist?

  78. Horseboy says:

    BBC in meltdown.
    BBC weather girl walks out of live broadcast.

    Noticing daily, chaotic BBC Scotland broadcasts, where pre-recorded tape is wrong etc..
    BBC have become amateur, but still paid top professional salaries!

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bbc-blunder-as-forecaster-is-shown-storming-off-screen.24466632?utm_source=headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email%2Balert

    BBC unbelievably handed £2billion annually and employ 20,000.
    Don’t know what they all do, must be shuffling paper.

    Why is BBC not creating wealth! Why is BBC not making money! Our money down the drain, £2billion is a bad investment for no return.

    Why does a Tory government keep it going, must be a very good reason! mmmmm I know, BBC is a UK government funded and controlled mouthpiece. Just like Soviet Russia and North Korea.

    Better economics to invest the £2billion in a Building Society fixed term bond saving account.

    Sell chaotic BBC before its stock falls.

    ps. BBC Salaries – where your annual £2billion disappears:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/aboutthebbc/insidethebbc/managementstructure/biographies/#section-1

    http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Broadcasting_Corporation

  79. biggpolmont says:

    the Survation poll really should be the writing on the wall for Labour Mps. In the next three months as we chip away at the Naysayers whether at their branch level Holyrood or westminster they will get less certain of their positions.
    Two things are likely to happen, Firstly even more lies & nasty attacks on our leaders and supporters with all the bile that they can conjure up.
    (Before the media starts shouting about another Cybernat attack on poor wee JK let me say its not. Conjure is just a word in use long before Harry potter was a twinkle in anyones eye)
    See how careful you have to be for sake of being misrepresented !! And secondly the more astute of the labour westminster crew might, just might start thinking of jumping ship lets not say no right away lets face it the press could not keep that quiet.

  80. muttley79 says:

    Lamont is complaining about Campbell Gunn.

  81. Mrs Grimble says:

    FFS, just leave that bloody ramp out of it. The issue is that BT misrepresented a party activist as an ordinary voter. THAT’S ALL THAT MATTERS HERE. Not her family, not her home – just that she (possibly) colluded in deception.
    Got it?

  82. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Lamont has had a memory wipe of McBride then. Most effective.

  83. Anne says:

    the fact that so much is being made of this tells us that BT aka No Thanks does not have the arguments but relies on stirring up discontent. The Yes side has the arguments but i think it is essential to avoid them becoming personalised in a way that can be used against us.

  84. desimond says:

    Ms Lally, who is from Clydebank, told the Better Together event on Monday: “I’m just a normal person but I want to do something extraordinary.”

    No Thanks!

  85. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Lamont – “it doesn’t get more serious than that”

    Apart from the death threats and bullets sent to Nicola, Salmond and other SNP politicians then?

    Dear god they really are pushing this bullshit hard.

  86. moujick says:

    The clincher for me was Margaret Curran’s tweet to Iain McWhirter. McWhirter says calm down everybody, Curran accuses him of misogyny since “everybody” includes women as well.

    As somebody above has pointed out BT put up 2 women, in the knowledge that there would be some comments on Social Media and for a couple of days they manage – through a MSM which we all know is compliant and complicit with the No campaign – to create a narrative of online abuse against women. Why would they do that? Because they know that women are a crucial voter demographic in the referendum campaign.

    What is missing from the media – and what we could have been taking about – is yet another high profile defector to Yes from within the very heart of the Labour Party. What is one thing that we should be trying to create a narrative about from within the Yes movement? Labour Voters moving to Yes. That didn’t happen because the No camp created a stronger narrative.

    Folks, I think we have been spun in the last couple of days and spun badly. We need to be cleverer than this and we need to keep our eyes on the ball.

    I was canvassing at the weekend and there are definetely Yes leaning undecideds out there. I spoke on a doorstep to one lovely, elderly lady who told me that she would “love Scotland to be Independent” but just wasn’t sure if we could really do it. Days like yesterday won’t help convince the likes of her.

  87. Mealer says:

    This all suits BT just fine.Theyd rather talk about this than debate the merits of spending fortunes on nuclear bombs while folk go to food banks.

  88. desimond says:

    Johann Lamont seems very agitated, she just looks like shes going to shout out “Pish!” at some point in FMQs.

  89. John H. says:

    Johann Lamont has just destroyed her own case over the Lally affair by accusing the F.M. of organising the attacks on her.

  90. North chiel says:

    Just a coincidence then that the jk and lally furore happens
    On the day prior to FMQ’s ??

  91. desimond says:

    Wow….

    Jola at FMQ cites JK Rowling and Barack Obama as evidence that there is “no target too ordinary or too powerful to come under attack”.

  92. Dcanmore says:

    So an 80 year old yes campaigner gets assaulted in the street resulting in a broken arm … media silence;

    Fantasy rape case used to attack FM by Johann Lamont, leader of Labour in Scotland … media silence;

    Well known comedian and yes supporter has his home address published on Twitter with ‘anybody want to pay the c**t a visit’ threat … media silence;

    Head of the no campaign and a former chancellor of the exchequer likens 47% of Scots to Nazis … media silence.

    Europe’s biggest untapped oil and gas deposits lying off the west coast of Scotland … media silence.

    and it goes on and on …

  93. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Now Ruth Davidson is joining in with the air of someone completely unaware of who Andy Coulson is.

  94. Gillie says:

    LOL – JoLa loses it big time after accusing Wee Eck of orchestrating attacks on her good self.

    For JoLa it’s all about, “ME, ME, ME ….. and ME”

  95. desimond says:

    Best part of FMQs is watching Nicola Sturgeons bemused face while Ruth and Jola rant on. Nicola looks likes she’s thinking “Salad or a Panani?, decisions decisions”

  96. desimond says:

    At FMQs….Wullie Rennie steps up to ask “How are 2 year old weans gaunnae be able to read Clare Lallys Autobiography if they dont have more nursery places?”

  97. Jimbo says:

    The press and broadcast media are of the opinion that people have stopped thinking for themselves.

    They think they have to tell people what they should be outraged about.

  98. skooshbag says:

    @JGedd that’ll be the @BritNatAbuseBot on twitter.

    Forgetting about Lally, the pish about Rowling. What has pissed alot of people off is she was on the bones of her arse claiming benefits when writing the HP books, gained millions from book sales and films from ordinary people who bought them as a temporary escape from terrible reality,then donates that money to a cause intent on the continued destruction of the very system she needed for survival, a system which is now directly causing the unnecessary deaths of thousands with sanctions.

  99. Cath says:

    That quote from a letter from Blair McDougall upthread is amazing: ” What has been really disturbing over the past 24hours is that it has been discovered that personalised attacks against No voters are being directed from inside the First Ministers office.”

    They’re losing it. They’ve already built their own fantasy world where where their lies are truth and that’s increasingly telling in their language. They have a bubble where their version of the world is “truth”. But, even with the entire media onside, their lies are being dismantled at best, or are subject to scrutiny at worst.

    That kind of thing will only play with already hardened no voters. The skeptical and swithering will be more turned off by all this Salmond and all yes supporters are evil Nazis nonsense. And really, who aside from political anoraks will be following a story about a political adviser and Twitter abuse? They’re seriously over-playing their own propaganda.

  100. Haggis Hunter says:

    Talked to an undecided today who said this farce has hit the headlines, while 500,000 people fleeing war in Iraq barely got a glance.
    She is now voting Yes. People are not as stupid and Better Together take them for

  101. desimond says:

    Alex Salmond has now spent 25 minutes telling folk over and over again “They guy made a wee mistake in an email”.
    Talk about giving us a clear example of how useless unionist paries are for Scotland if this is all they wish to discuss.

  102. desimond says:

    @Cath
    Is this Blair quoting Ruth Davidson at FMQs or Ruth quoting Blair i wonder….they really are better off together, preferably somewhere else if we get our YES vote.

  103. Andrew Coulson says:

    It pains me, it really does, to point this out — but the net result of these two days (despite the fact that your own behaviour and the way you have presented and represented yourself has been exemplary throughout) has probably been negative for the Yes campaign. ‘Pains me’ — because I was amused and pleased by your first post on this topic (‘Voters Less Ordinary’). I thought it was clever of you to be able to put media evidence together so quickly, and the incident reinforced the contrast in genuine ‘grass-roots’ involvement between the two campaigns.
    But, as I say, the outcome of this skirmish has probably been net-negative with undecided voters.
    Am I suggesting you and other people stop making fun, or exposing misrepresentation by the other side? I hope not — but maybe we have to reflect that, even if the Yes campaign had won in this particular skirmish, proving that the No campaign misrepresents the ‘grass-roots’ status of one of its speakers would have done very little to increase the Yes vote on September 18th

  104. Indy_Scot says:

    Only a Yes vote can save Scotland from a corrupt media and political system.

  105. kininvie says:

    @ Ian, 11.46

    Re: Willie Rennie

    That was a spoof, wasn’t it? The ‘Madam Speaker’ gave it away…

    How I’d love to think it wasn’t!

  106. Bawheid Bragg says:

    Re abuse, has anyone mentioned agents provocateur yet? Just sayin’.

  107. Andrew Coulson says:

    ….. I think what I’m suggesting, is that there can be hidden minefields in some places that otherwise seem to be highly favourable battlegrounds to choose……

  108. annie says:

    I think it is now time to allow Clare Lally to sink back into obscurity, she has served her purpose. No one will remember her in a week or so and she has probably done her cause for carers and the disabled more harm than good by churlishly refusing to accept Campbell Gunn’s apology no doubt on the orders of her Labour masters.

  109. JGedd says:

    I’m aorry perhaps I misunderstand here, but didn’t Ms Lally make a political statement which was incorrect and didn’t JK Rowling step into the fray by giving her ideas about Scottish independence – as well as her substantial donation? Are other people not allowed to make a response to what they say or is it that despite their seeking a political profile they are beyond all criticism?

    The Weirs made a donation but didn’t actually make any public statements yet were given special, unpleasant attention by the media merely for having made a donation. If JK Rowling is such a tender flower, then perhaps she could quietly have made her donation, just like the Weirs, and not treated us to her political opinions. If you do, then people will comment.

    Personal abuse is unacceptable but comment on opinions is surely allowed.

  110. Rod Robertson says:

    As the article states ,mch like the Calman story there is not a lot of evidence of so called abuse against Mrs Lally.
    however it is of no consequence the MSM ,broadcasters and Unionist cabal have already yet again spread the lie that all YES Supporters are vile abusive and bully any person that is not in the YES camp.
    There is the implication that all No internet users are pleasant cuddly decent sorts and taking daily abuse from us big bad cybernats.
    Your article is 100% spot on ,problem is only the enlightened will ever rad it or know the truth.

  111. Douglas Gourlay says:

    Surely the simplest way to deal with vile and abusive tweets is to pass them to the police. They will be investigated and, if found to be vile and abusive, the perpetrators will be charged.

    Too simple?

  112. eezy says:

    Just watched FMQ’s and think AS handled the situation really well.
    BT will try and cling onto this but well done to the FM for not retaliating with the like for like scenarios that we all know exist.
    AS really is parading himself as the best politician on these shores.
    Hopefully he’ll not feel insulted by that last comment.

  113. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    The Labour party in Scotland hates the SNP. We all know that. They are trying to whip up ordinary Labour voters to share their hatred in a desperate attempt to shore up the NO vote.

    The irony is a NO vote would finish off Labour in Scotland.

  114. Justin Ross says:

    Just a cheap, desperate and obviously well organised campaign to smear Salmond and the SNP, scare female voters and drown out the Darling comments.

    How could Salmond or any SNP MSP bring up the subject of Darling’s comments today and call for him to resign when the Unionists were making the same calls? Sneaky operation, but very cynical.

    I think Salmond should just have bumped Gunn, regardless of the non-offensive nature of his comments. It would basically kill this manufactured “outrage”. Now he hasn’t, we’ll have the Clare Lally/SNP attack women crap added to all the rest of the unionist smears.

  115. Nan Rattray says:

    Call me naïve but does Ms. Lally really feel that being mistakenly referred to as daughter-in-law to Pat Lally warrants the histrionics she displayed? There is no evidence of abusive attacks to be found so does all this mean she has such a low opinion of Mr. Lally?

  116. bunter says:

    @JGedd

    Great post. That’s how I feel, the Weirs said we support YES and heres the money end of. They were smeared and abused and had to write a letter that it should stop. The snears and abuse continued with even a Tory MSP joining in.

    I thought JKR’s letter could have been dictated by AD!

    However no one should be abused.

  117. JLT says:

    To be honest, I think the last day or so, has been absolutely dreadful in the debate …for both sides. I see no winners in this.

    Personally, I’m done with the Clare Lally affair. It has dragged on for too long.

    The blame for ALL of this lies with the media. They have acted in a most unprofessional manner since the Edinburgh Agreement was signed. They were asked only to be fair, impartial and to give a balanced view for both sides in the referendum. This they have failed to do on a spectacular scale. Some of the journalists that work in real key positions should be ashamed of themselves in the way they have reported information in these last two years.

    And for abuse, you only have to go to the comments pages on some articles, whether it is the BBC, or the newspapers to find true gutter dredging nonsense. For about a year now, I have refused to comment on any of those sites. Wings is the only site I come to because it is fair and balanced, and I find the comments funny, thought-provoking and enlightening. I congratulate Stuart for the way he has passed information to us, as well as making sure this site never dropped into levels of nastiness and smears.

    The real blame for the Lally affair lies with Better Together and the Scottish Labour Party as they tried to pull the wool over everybody’s eyes by saying Clare was just an ordinary person (as though they had just found someone in the street who was willing to make a little statement). As this site pointed out, one little fact was kept quite, and that was that Clare had affiliations to the Labour Party.

    I have no political ties to any Party. I pay no fees, I’m on no ones books, I’m just a guy who signed up to ‘Yes Scotland’. That is it. And yet …I would say I’m a Political Activist. For Better Together to say that Ms Lally is not, is deceivement to the Scottish people. And for the papers as well as the TV media to do the same, then it speaks volumes about the sort of debate that the Better Together campaigners want to wage.

    It’s turning into a gutter fight. I for one, am determined not to descend into it.

    Guys, stick to the plan. Do not slander any individual whether they are members of Better Together, or any celebrities backing ‘No’. We have to aspire to a higher ideal. If we don’t do that, then we may just lose sight of the goal.

  118. Cath says:

    the net result of these two days (despite the fact that your own behaviour and the way you have presented and represented yourself has been exemplary throughout) has probably been negative for the Yes campaign

    But if they hadn’t used this to manufacture a hysterical story, they’d have found something else to do the same job. There is nothing behind it. That’s the point. If you force everyone on the yes side, including yes supporting journalists, political advisers etc to so careful they do nothing that could possibly be wrong or misconstrued, or taken out of context, you’ll effectively silence everyone on the yes side. Which of course is what the no side want.

    I agree it’s been overall very bad for yes, but with the entire UK state, all its parties and the media orchestrating a very specifically created and designed smear campaign that’s going to be the result. FWIW of everything I saw and read yesterday, the Rev’s appearance on Scotland Tonight was the part where we came out best – gave the facts calmly and would have made undecideds really question what they were being told, if they weren’t already.

  119. bookie from hell says:

    lamont showed pure hate–FMQs

  120. Chic McGregor says:

    heraldnomore
    “Now instead we could put together a greatest hits of the efforts on twitter of, say, George Foulkes, or Euan McColm. I’m sure you have an interesting back catalogue Stu.”

    The problem with a ‘back catalogue’ is, that not so very long ago, although it seems like an age now, banter from both sides was carried out in a fairly good natured manner. Almost like a game. In fact, a lot like football banter or pub banter.

    Things have changed and become nasty.

    Comments, from both sides, made even just a couple of years back and made in a much more light hearted, humour motivated, manner could be taken out of context and under the new nasty light be construed as something never intended.

  121. Jim Marshall says:

    What puzzles me about the Lally business is that the other Claire Lally, the one who is Pat Lallys daughter-in-law has been forgotten about. It seems to me that she is the one who should feel aggrieved and is owed an apology, after all she has been subjected to presumably unwanted publicity. I have no knowledge of this woman but have assumed she is a private person given an absence of complaint or comment.

    The other Clare Lally ( Labour party activist )is I feel being used as a pawn in political game by people who are cynically exploiting her situation.

    The whole matter has been blown up out of all proportion.Time to put it to rest.

  122. Gillie says:

    Campbell Gunn, mild mannered Sunday Post reporter, but is in reality SUPER NAT.

    Is it a bird? Is is plane? No, it is SUPER NAT.

  123. RogueCoder says:

    JK Rowling on the BBC today describing some of the comments as “death eaterish”. This relates not to Lally, but some supposed nasty comments posted in response to her donating £1m to Better Together.

    What seems clear from the past week is that Better Together – having failed repeatedly to make he positive case for the union – is adopting an all out smear campaign to paint Yes and in particular the SNP as the Fourth Reich. The references to ” blood and soil”, “cybernats”, “death eaters” etc attempting to align civic nationalism with right wing extremism in people’s minds. This is disgusting and disgraceful behaviour – anybody who has followed Scottish politics for more than 5 minutes knows that the Yes campaign is inclusive and enlightened. If anything the Better Together campaign and mainstream Westminster parties pandering to UKIP and BNP votes is far more sinister.

    I’m not suggesting this is a conscious decision by Lally or Rowling who as far as I can see are nothing but unfortunate pawns in this game. It’s a campaign being driven from the top by Darljng et al whom are now so desperate to win at all costs that they have stooped to creating monsters and having a complicit and greedy media lap it up like Rottweilers.

    It’s the worse form of politics I’ve ever seen, and I don’t know how anybody thinks we’re just going to roll over and forget this post sept 18. I just hope that the electorate are smart enough to see through this deception for the vile tactic that it is, and wholeheartedly vote Yes for a fairer and more inclusive society – and better politics.

  124. james says:

    It has always been my opinion that independence would not be allowed by westminster, and this is just exactly how they are going to achieve their goal by manipulating the BBC etc. If there is a no vote in the referendum, how can this be accepted when all the evidence of bias is examined? A clear case for prosecution and a call for a rematch I think.

  125. Votadini Jeannie says:

    Apart from unnecessary references to the ramp in Ms Lally garden, I thnk most of the Yes supporters’ comments I have seen about this have been fair. Her Labour credentials were oncealed, and it is correct that this was investigated and exposed. It’s called journalism.

    Anyway, I’ve been trying to recall some low-key TV debate about a year ago, when someone “ordinary” took part on behalf of Yes – I think the guy was a lawyer – and there was outrage from the No camp when it was later revealed that he was a prominent online blogger and SNP supporter. Peat worrier, perhaps, or Munguin? I wish my memory were better, so hopefully someone can remind me. A standard case of Pot, Kettle and Black, I think.

    Better Together? No thanks!

  126. kininvie says:

    It’s the foulness of current party politics that creates this kind of false outrage.

    I’d love to see the day when an ‘ordinary mum’ can indeed represent the Scottish people in parliament without having to be spun to the media or advised on ‘line to take’ by guys in suits.

    That’s why people loved Margo. She didn’t go in for it. Just said what she thought.

    After indy, we need to look carefully at what, as taxpayers, we will not be prepared to fund by way of Special Advisors, Press Officers, policy wonks and the whole tribe of party hangers-on…

  127. Rosa Alba Macdonald says:

    No one, nor their disabled child should be mocked (I have the experience of my child with ASN being branded a pariah and mocked by his peers and his teachers, while denying him the supports he needed). If a child needs *whatever* support he or she should have it.
    Sadly the NHS is currently, even currently, underfunded and cannot provide or meet the needs of every adult and child needing its services (ask me how long it takes to get a child diagnosed with very severe ADHD/DCD/PTSD – and I will tell you five years of hell).
    Sadly education – and I speak as teacher and parent – is underfunded to meet the all needs of every child, even in terms of English as an Additional Language far less Additional Support Needs. One might look at the Primary One mainstream intake in certain schools in Aberdeen to find out if the children in there w. ASN will find their needs are being met appropriately…
    I find it admirable that someone champion the rights of children w. ASN and their carers. I find it admirable that they have the ears of those in the corridors of power.
    I find it questionable that anyone with a child with ASN – and associations with other parents of children w. ASN – would defend current provision as adequate, however well individuals discharge duties. I find it more questionable still that one would defend a position likely to ensure further cuts yet, if not more privatisation.
    Sadly the Labour Party, even in Scotland, eschewed the tenets of Socialism, in practice if not so completely in theory, long ago. John MacLean would turn in his grave; John MacLean was also part of a SLP which espoused independence.
    I do feel for Ms Lally who may, or may not, have been set up intentionally as a dupe. And perhaps worst of all her credibility as a campaigner for children w. Additional Support Needs and their carers may now be compromised.

    And still the story sits uneasy.

    As for Cybertrolls: on an unrelated forum I called a group of people for their xenophobic, racist comments about (fairly specific) immigrants and asylum seekers, and the perception of such people as smelly and skivers, and that they should go back home…. It was (and I maintain this) the incipient crawl of Kipperism and that leads to the full on blood and soil Nationalism of Mosley or worse, and persecution of groups of people, whether Gay (in Russia), Traveller (in Scotland) or with Special Needs.
    My comments to this end were screamed down by those with a Yes sticker on their profile and one mother (no yes sticker but her pal did) particularly who criticised me for nationalism (which was teaching children Scottish songs while studying Scotland, and wearing a plaid [no mention of the French song I taught in French!!!]) and mentioned specific details about where I worked in the past, and with whom.

    The point is that some people just exude abuse and crap for the sake of it, with no real comprehension of what they are saying or rejecting and how it actually relates to what they maintain they believe. Sadly these are the kind of people who buy into the bias of the media, who will latch onto the voxpops and over-exposure of UKIP and vote without thinking.
    I add that I think we need to be careful in subverting the “no thanks” mantra (as in Bedroom Tax No Thanks) or even, on the SNP Page header, “Together we can make Scotland better” (however aspirational) because the injudicious who vote for UKIP, and spout their excrement, while sporting a Yes button, might not have the insight to work out their yes from their no.

  128. MochaChoca says:

    O/T But here’s a thought.

    Imagine the SNP hadn’t pressed on with the referendum this parliament (perhaps due to majority in parliament, but no majority in the electorate) and instead had demanded the kind of further devolution now being touted by the unionist parties.

    What would be the chances of any unionist party being in anyway receptive to that? I reckon we’d be getting much of the same scare stories about further devolution that we are currently getting about independence.

  129. robbie says:

    The FM reminding Johann Lamont on labours Damien McBride and his evil vile behavior was a classic, wee useless Lamont was as sick as a parrot, even her minions in the chamber were looking at her and shaking their empty heads at her sheer stupidity.

  130. Cath says:

    I just hope that the electorate are smart enough to see through this deception for the vile tactic that it is

    Me too. But given the depths they’re willing to go to, I suspect those who don’t will come to realise it not too long after a NO vote. These are tactics that required constant injections of fear and smear, as well as diverting people from all other more major stories. When all that lifts after Sept 19th all that will remain is the bitter aftertaste, even for many no voters.

    At that point, if people were expecting devo-max over cosy chats and cups of tea, or JK Rowling’s idea of a massive hug from those in rUK who’ll love us for voting no, they’ll be very disappointed.

  131. Macart says:

    @JLT

    Couldn’t agree more. However hard the opposition and that includes the media, try to pull our attention away from the real issues in this debate and into brawls, the more we must focus on dragging the debate back on track.

    We’ve got a historic chance here to shape the country we want to see come about. Scotland is a wealthy country well able to care for its populace, what it doesn’t have is free reign to direct that wealth where its needed.

    We can end the shame of food banks. We can provide for our future in the form of a sovereign wealth fund. We can have popular sovereignty and the rights of the people enshrined in a written constitution. We can revitalise our manufacturing base and provide clean energy for the people. We can do all those things and so much more besides.

    Those are subjects worth talking about and no amount of misdirection by the press or the deranged BT/No Thanks/Westminster establishment should be allowed to derail those conversations.

    Tuppence worth over. 🙂

  132. Chic McGregor says:

    BBC Scotland news on the Johnny Beattie show just gave a completely distorted report on this story. They did not mention at all that the apology was because of the mistaken relationship to Pat Lally. This left the clear impression that the apology was for an admitted general attack on Ms Lally, which is completely untrue.

    It is getting really frightening now, that they are going as far as they are.

  133. HandandShrimp says:

    I would agree with Andrew that there are advantages and disadvantages in taking Better Together to task over issues. We should careful below the line to tackle the message rather than make it personal. In this case I don’t recall much in the way of personal attacks…I am sure the BBC scoured our board and came away a little disappointed.

    The fact remains that most of us here are ordinary voters. We don’t know MPs and MSPs let alone appear in numerous photo ops with them or act in an advisory capacity. Hell! I’m not even a member of any political party. So she is indeed a voter less ordinary and it was fair comment to say so. Personal abuse is unnecessary and unacceptable but pointing out she is a Labour activist is pertinent and valid. Suggesting she might be related to Pat Lally is of course hugely harsh 😉

    JKR is subject to attacks all the time – people got bizarrely het up when she suggested she was wrong and she should have paired Potter up with Hermione. She has suffered a fair bit of press intrusion in her private life too.

    Stepping into the fray and donating £1m and writing a piece for BT is certainly putting oneself in the firing line for anti-BT rhetoric but again there is no need for personal abuse and I haven’t seen much. I’m sceptical about the supposed Tweet from a tiny charity who probably have no full time staff (or any staff).

    It seems to me that BT are desperate to try and control or shut down social media, blogs and associated investigations into their claims and statements. They are permanently poised to take offence. They are wasting their time. Social media is the first port of call for news for the majority of people and it is that very uncensored freedom that people like. In short it isn’t going to happen. It is also interesting that they are making another huge fuss about nasty Yes people when the pols are once again showing that Yes is advancing.

  134. Oui Things says:

    From all i’ve seen, not one interviewer highlighted the simple fact that CL is far from being an ‘ordinary mum’. If anything, they’ve continued to portray her as an ordinary mum though evidence clearly contradicts that description.

    They aren’t even hiding their bias. Which greatly helps brainwash the people who choose not to question what they hear in the media. And at the same time, completely infuriate the people who do. Where is the electoral commission?
    There must be hundreds of examples of imbalanced journalism. Stop the lies and the quality of the debate might improve.

  135. memaw says:

    I don’t understand why the police are not involved.

    My Great niece is in court today for retaliating to vile texts from her ex partner. She responded to one text saying that he was a “prick” and a “dick”. That is all. No threats of physical violence. She called him a “prick” and a “dick”. The police came to her house late at night, arrested, her took her to the police station, finger printed and photographed her. If her Mum and Dad had not lived close by her child would have been taken into care.

    All of this because a “prick” and a “dick” took his phone into a police station while he was drunk, showed the police that text and made a complaint. He then tried to withdraw the charges when he was sober and was told he would be charged with wasting police time if he did not proceed.

    So why are the police not involved with these “vile threats” to this young woman ?

  136. Jim Marshall says:

    bookie from hell says:
    12 June, 2014 at 12:55 pm
    lamont showed pure hate–FMQs

    As usual.

  137. W R B Cunninghame Graham says:

    I’m afraid I have little patience with those individuals who play in he poliical arena and then make Mt Everest out of a molehill because a few people have called them unpleasant things.

    For my criticism of the dodgy trade which sells 1sq ft plots of Scotland, I have been subjected to attemptd idenity theft and no less than 16 separate websites to attck me (and when that did’t have the desired effect) my family and ancestors. All anonymous, of course.

    Makes their claim that it is a reputable trade somewhat laughable.

  138. orr says:

    At least Clare has been confused with someone who in all probability supports the same political party she does. My namesake is a conservative councillor near Bambury. Although to be fair neither of is the convicted fraudster who also shares our name. Just wish I’d mentioned it a few days back before it distracted from the main story here.

    First that as an activist Clare Lally seems fairly high profile and just as ordinary as the rest of us. Anyone could be motivated due to the circumstances to do what she does for her child.
    Second that yet again we’re getting the usual ignorance of the distinction between the various NHS’s in the UK which it seems obvious from what Labour are saying will be abolished despite devolution and then privatised in due course.
    Third, given she is only notable in politics due to her campaigning on behalf of her child it’s kind of hard to accept that others brought said child into the public eye. Of course personal abuse isn’t acceptable but if simply saying “Sorry Clare but what you’re saying is a pile of mince” is the majority of what she gets then any accusations will be show for the nonsense that they are.

    JK Rolling is at least acknowledging that Scotland is capable of research, although why we have to be joied at the hip to the rUK when international collaboration is a fairly standard thing in universities is beyond me. My main problem is that if she’s genuinely concerned about research in a particular field then why didn’t she punt her million into that? Again I can understand someone who is acting emotionally might not be entirely rational about these things.

  139. Cath says:

    What would be the chances of any unionist party being in anyway receptive to that?

    We’d be getting constantly goaded with, ‘Salmond bottled it because he knows independence is a loser. Why should we give him anything? Stop voting for nationalist losers and we might offer you something after 2016.’

  140. Robert Kerr says:

    @Joe Kane.

    Ruth Davidson is a fool to equate “correlation” to “causality”.

    The first rule of experimental investigation is not to so do.

    Sad really

  141. MochaChoca says:

    Oui Things,

    Agreed, last night’s Scotland 2014 was incredible, Team Smith & Davidson (pretty much in equal measure) against Annabelle Ewing.

  142. JGedd says:

    @Votadini Jeannie

    Pretty sure it was Lallands Peat Worrier otherwise known as Andrew Tickell. But I could be corrected.

    However, I remember the incident and how it was played. Yet another instance of manufactured outrage. Their theatrical outpourings are so unconvincing you wonder that they keep doing it.

  143. Harris Tottle. says:

    That Clare Lally is quite a good looking young woman…

    Oops! I have just been insulting; I have been sexist and ageist. And these are both terrible things to say…aren’t they?

  144. Davy says:

    Well after listening to FM’s question time, it appears we have a new Saint, totally unreal, how can someone who misrepresented themselves to the public suddenly become the victim, all because a scottish government adviser misidentified her as someone else’s daughter.

    May I observe, it may look good up on top of that pedastal just now with all the unionist leaders cheering away, but when Scotland votes independence, all those fair-weather unionists will vanish faster than you can say “MP’s expense’s”.

  145. HandandShrimp says:

    I have yet to watch Scotland 2014. I can’t say I have heard anything to entice to bother. TV News is the pits.

  146. wingman 2020 says:

    All this furore… and desperate agitation.

    What are BT and BMcD and others worried about? They are in the lead right? Why the panic? Why the aggression?

    Surely, all they have to do is coast to the finish on the 18th? After all the polls and the MSM are on their side.

    Do you think there is something bothering BT, JL, AD and all the other Unionists who seem to be running around generating angst and hatred?

    Its like a football game where BT cannot actually get the ball in the net, so they keep shouting foul and offside …. and the BBC, I mean the Ref, agrees with them, yet ignores clear fouls on the other team.

    Do they have a sense they are likely to lose the game?

  147. msorsaleslie says:

    Funny how the davy11757 account has now disappeared….”Sorry we could not retrieve the user. That user does not exist” from Twitter. Do we know who Dave McCloskey is?

  148. Andy-B says:

    If indeed it turns out that no such vile attacks exist, I wonder if there’s any recourse for holding the media to account, or indeed anyone else who conspired to push the agenda.

    Talking about conspiring, the usual suspects at FMQ’s did their best to smear, the SNP and independence supporters, Lamont, Rennie and Davidson desperately tried to have Campbell Gunn sacked.

  149. patronsaintofcats says:

    Why did SLAB feel it necessary to throw Clare Lally under the bus? Otherise this stushie is totally contrived by UKOK. This is a lie of omission at best, full deception at worst.I’m a former CA to someone now in the Scottish Government cabinet. I would never try to hide that if i put myself out into the limelight because i know for a fact it would come back and make me, the SNP and the Yes camp look complicit in trying to hide my background.

    I’m mum to a disabled child and an activist as well. I’d only use that activist role in seeking to improve conditions for others, never to score political points. She is no innocent; She knows full well what she’s doing.

  150. james says:

    Do they have a sense they are likely to lose the game?

    They are just taking no chances, that’s all.

  151. Mary Bruce says:

    I usually find that directing unionists on twitter to the @britnatabusebot feed usually shuts them up pretty quickly.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/britnatabusebot

    Anyone willing to put a bet on that this will ever appear in the msm?

  152. Dcanmore says:

    You can see the game being played here: State broadcaster parachutes Sarah Smith into new programme because a) she’ll do what she’s told (and agree with most of it anyway); b) she’s John Smith’s daughter to appeal to Labour voters; c) she will appeal to women voters; d) a built-in hatred of the SNP.

    On the next episode of Abused Women for No (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Union), Michelle Mone describes how her life has been wrecked by one tweet sent to her last year which was recently dredged up an opportunistic union-supporting newspaper.

  153. Thoughtsofascot says:

    “WILLIE RENNIE: Madam Speaker, I have this very morning received a Tweet from someone called Big Ginger Hairy Highland SNP Supporter, and if you’ll allow me to quote, he says ‘You, Rennie, are a hopeless fanny’. Madam speaker, will the First Minister finally rein these people in?”

    Oh lord! Is this for real, or a joke? I could’ve swore i saw an almost similar exchange, near word for word in a damn cartoon. Next he’ll be saying M’kay!
    I cant check from where I am right now, but in all seriousness, im not at all surprised if its real.

  154. Jim Marshall says:

    HandandShrimp 1.28

    I would not watch it either. I remember her early ch4 days,absolutely hostile to SNP and devolution. I can”t stomach her.

  155. Chic McGregor says:

    One of the messages here which I have not seen highlighted but which I think is worthy of at least noting, is the reasoning behind claiming ‘ordinary’ status. That in itself is a very telling indictment of the credibility of politicians in general.

    Politicians must just about be the worst regarded of any professional class now.

    Worse even than Dentists, Estate Agents, Insurance Salesmen, Second Hand car dealers, Stockbrokers and Lawyers. Possibly even worse than Journalists and Bankers.

  156. No no no...Yes says:

    @ Wingman 2020 1.29pm

    I would suggest that results of the secret polls carried out by the UK Govt have scared them witless:

    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/jun/uk-govt-must-publish-polls-true-costs-revealed

  157. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    re the £40,000 access ramp, was it a Labour Cooncil which put it up?

  158. Clootie says:

    Unionist game plan

    A) we can’t control social media so we will undermine it and ensure nobody trusts it – Good Luck with that. It’s the MSM nobody trusts.
    B) ensure woman do not switch to YES by painting this as an attack on a woman – Once again Good Luck with that as no evidence of a vile attack appears to exist and what has become clear is a long term Labour activist misleading the public.

    The failure to secure Independence will have a major impact on the lives of millions of ordinary Scots. To mislead them on your credentials or motivation is poor judgement. However to lie about the NHS and cross border arrangements is offensive. People have a right to highlight this and that does not constitute abuse.

  159. Jim Marshall says:

    Chic McGregor 1.43

    “Worse even than Dentists, Estate Agents, Insurance Salesmen, Second Hand car dealers, Stockbrokers and Lawyers. Possibly even worse than Journalists and Bankers.”

    Yes, and even more so with a Sir or Lord in front of their name.

  160. Votadini Jeannie says:

    Thanks JGedd

    I’ve had a wee search, and having re-read the details, I am now expecting Ian Davidson to step in and condemn Better Together? No thanks! for their part in the deceit, after all, he was quoted as saying:

    “It’s outrageous the BBC should act in this way, presenting an SNP activist and blogger as an impartial academic.”

    So I’m sure he’s pretty apoplectic over Ms Lally’s presentation.

    http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/49806

    (Hope the link is formatted properly)

  161. Oui Things says:

    Mocha Choca, it was a prime example of media bias. There were only two questions needed answered by any journalist worth their salt.

    Did you personally choose to be portrayed as an ‘ordinary mum’ knowing full well that you are very much politically active, or were you asked to?

    If so, by whom?

    If anyone should lose their job, it should be whoever put her up to this.

  162. Douglas Gourlay says:

    They are doing anything they can to avoid the real debate, because they are fully aware they are losing it. They can’t be truthful, because the reality is that Scotland will be better off as an independent state. So, they misinform and blatantly lie. They are, finally, realizing that the majority of voters don’t believe them any more. So sabotaging the debate is their last throw of the dice.

  163. Papadox says:

    Is it a prerequisite that you be a member of the Labour Party to get employment with EBC?

  164. Chic McGregor says:

    thoughtsofascot

    I have never, ever, seen anyone use ‘SNP Supporter’ in an ID.

    Very rarely, you will see someone with just ‘SNP’

    I am suspicious as to its genuine nature.

    The message itself is quite believable, the ID seems just too contrived to me.

  165. Anne Lawrie says:

    How little attention was paid to the threats against us by Labour MP Ian Davidson last year. This is the quote from Newsnet: A Scottish Labour MP has caused anger after comparing the independence debate to war and suggesting “wounded” independence supporters should be bayoneted.

    Glasgow MP Ian Davidson has been slammed after making the remarks in a debate on the future of Scotland where he claimed the No campaign was certain of victory.

    According to the Times newspaper he said of the referendum: “…people have already decided”. The Labour MP is also alleged to have said: “The debate will go on in the sense there is a large number of wounded still to be bayoneted …”

    I am a little old lady and threats of physical violence against me, should be a matter of serious concern to the MSM.

  166. Oui Things says:

    As i’ve said before, the only way to tackle the media bias is to take our protest to the street. A properly organised protest against the Scottish media.The Better Together campaign would have completely collapsed by now if it wasn’t for the MSM’s bias.

  167. Faltdubh says:

    THIS is their way of shutting down debate.

    They must know deep down it’s going to be very tight. Who in their right mind changes their business/company/ slogan when apparently it’s 20% ahead according to some polls? No one does, you keep on trucking on that name,but they’ve decided to change from Better Together to No Thanks.

    Every debate held where a pre/post vote is taken. Yes receive a huge jump either an increased lead or from a previous No majority to a Yes vote.

    I think abuse on both sides is disgusting, but where were the Daily Mail, BBC, Scotsman etc when the Weirs’ were receveing abuse rather than a few comments at JK.

    It’s not working people. Scottish people on a whole will not vote against their nation. TBH, about 6 months I was concerned about how we are going to win this, but more and more people are becoming engaged and the media are killing their support for the no campaign. I know 3 folk who have switched from either no/undecided to now yes, and all 3 have said a lot of it is to do with the way BT have been running their campaign.

    BT know this!

    To use a crappy football analogy(hey, HAPPY WORLD CUP DAY!) They were 3-0 up, but we’ve gotten back into the game and it’s 3-2, they are down to 10 men and we’ve just been awarded a penalty with 70 minutes gone!

  168. Edward Margerum says:

    Spelling counts. Above ” Neither side of the debate have a monopoly on viscious comments” I think vicious was meant, though Tory comments are often a bit viscous i.e. Thick.

  169. Kevin Lynch says:

    The Metro is claiming an Edinburgh charity posted abuse. The Dignity Project.

  170. wingman 2020 says:

    @Oui Things

    Good idea. Can you imagine World Wide Headlines

  171. manandboy says:

    memaw says:
    12 June, 2014 at 1:11 pm
    I don’t understand why the police are not involved.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Police are absolutely central to the Unionist Establishment.

    The Police are not there primarily for the public.

    The Police Force is an arm of the UK Gov.

    The Police are not on the side of the Yes campaign.

    Does that sound absolutely ridiculous.

    If the answer is yes.

    You’ve swallowed the Unionist propaganda.

  172. manandboy says:

    May I suggest very qietly, that we do need something else to talk about. This bit of the carpet is threadbare enough.

    Part Two of Scottish Mainland Oil and Gas
    BY BELLACALEDONIA on JUNE 12, 2014 • ( 0 )
    PAPER – 2 SCOTTISH MAINLAND (ONSHORE) OIL AND GAS :

    `A SONG STILL TO BE SUNG`.

    By William Cameron McLaughlin BA(Hons), MBA

    is now showing over on http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/06/12/scottish-mainland-oil-and-gas/

    Making the case for Independence is our meat and drink – this is what we do.

    Apologies to Stu, who should be officially honoured when this is decided, for advertising the Oil issue on Bella.
    My only thought is to spread any news I read and there is no better place than Wings.

    A taster:-
    “Like the Scottish Atlantic Margin oil and gas exploration activities, mainland Scottish oil and gas exploration activity is carefully tucked away out of sight of the Scottish public domain.

    The fact that Scotland is literally floating in oil and gas reserves is never mentioned by the Scottish or indeed, the English media. When was the last time you read a front page newspaper leader or heard a news bulletin that the Scottish Atlantic Margin is “The next global hot-spot for oil and gas exploration in the 21st century?” You haven’t, and you won’t.

    London’s plan is to have the Scots believe that their oil and gas is “declining“, when in fact, the opposite is very much the case. This is not a subjective opinion; it is based on evidence and hard facts.”

    Oil reserves ‘declining’. Well that’s exactly what JK Rowling seems to believe. But that’s probably because her close friend Gordon Brown has kept her ‘informed’.

  173. manandboy says:

    Ps. How many people in Scotland know about the 20yr old Irish Oil & Gas Industry.

    That’s how effective the UK Gov propaganda machine is.

    All TV is a squirrel.

    The people who control the UK don’t watch TV.

    They just make sure YOU watch it.

  174. Grouse Beater says:

    Orr said: My main problem is that if she’s [Rowling] genuinely concerned about research in a particular field then why didn’t she punt her million into that? Again I can understand someone who is acting emotionally might not be entirely rational about these things.

    Excellent observation!

    And you’re right – her entire stance is irrational, the same decision BT want the rest of Scotland to make.

  175. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Papadox says:
    12 June, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    “Is it a prerequisite that you be a member of the Labour Party to get employment with EBC?”

    Who paid you to say that?

    Al’Iksammin?

  176. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Votadini Jeannie

    I rest in awe to that moniker.

  177. Craig P says:

    Tell you what, this referendum campaign is proving an eye-opening education in how news is manufactured by the media.

  178. Dorothy Devine says:

    I am so sick fed up with the media misleading , lying and contorting the truth.
    I remember a week a few years ago when we boycotted a certain Edinburgh ” quality ” newspapers site – I never returned , others did.
    I am sure it had an affect and would like to suggest a boycott of all newspaper sites – anyone up for it? It has to be mob handed to have an affect.

  179. IcySpark says:

    So why is none getting laid into Nigel Farage for his abusive comments about Alex Salmond?

    https://twitter.com/FarageOfficial/status/477008456176926720?p=v

    “Salmond represents the yes campaign perfectly. A fat, idiotic racist, vote no, vote for the union!”

    “He’s a fat would be tinpot dictator.”

    Posted just a few hours ago.

  180. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ IcvySpark

    You have to love Nigel.

    Foot in mouth when he shoul;d just keep on being a lurker.

    You don’t suppose that SNP Secret Agent DC has done a deal with him already?

    Ministerial Mondeo for Nigel Farage!

  181. orri says:

    It’s a kind of human shield tactic. You’re not allowed to argue with someone who’s motivated by the memory of a dead parent or a disabled child. The same as you’re meant to forget the possibility that the economy around Faslane is actually being damaged by the naval base and place the jobs of a select few over the rest. Much as we’re supposed to put the jobs of ship workers above the economic recovery of the rest of Scotland.

    Again on the theme of ordinary I’d say we all are, except for those with outstanding skills of some point or the upper classes. That’s the kind of message the Labour party likes to spout and we in Scotland seem more willing to believe than the rest of the UK as was shown in the results of the recent poll Westminster didn’t want to publicise. I certainly would contend that, especially in the speech shown on TV, Clare Lally was and is an ordinary person. I don’t hold with the idea that politicians and activists should claim to be anything special. The worst of the lot being those fools in ermine who claim independence would be just the thing the forces of darkness desire.

    So why is being ordinary considered the new black? Perhaps for the same reason that VNB want to paint those they feature as being somehow ordinary and “unpolished”. The same reason you don’t play poker with someone who claims not to know the game. The same reason child contestants in talent shows have an advantage. We’re willing to lower our standards for them and cut them a bit of slack. They pander to those who feel they themselves are a little ignorant and depending on how the flaws in their arguments are dealt with that ignorance is actually far more beneficial than the truth ever would be.

  182. Grouse Beater says:

    Just shown my wife the photographs of Lally’s alley – the alleged £40,000 football stadium style ramp to her council house.

    She was, as the saying goes,’gobsmacked.’ “Worst case of blatant corruption I’ve ever seen. Why did the council dig in their heels and demand she accept a street level house?”

  183. Grouse Beater says:

    Why didn’t the council dig in their heels and demand she accept a street level house?”

  184. Churm Rincewind says:

    Orr and Grousebeater: J K Rowling has already donated something over a hundred million pounds to charity (best estimate), including well over ten million pounds to fund medical research in Scotland.

    Disagree with her stance on independence by all means, but your criticism of what she does with her money is unfair and unfounded.

  185. Craig P says:

    Icy Spark – the Farage account is a parody account.

  186. Viking Girl says:

    I’ve been thinking all morning that this could have been a trap that ‘Yes’ walked right into. All these Labour women wringing their hands and giving speeches that seemed to be so well prepared. You couldn’t blame anyone for thinking that they had all coiffed their hair in advance of being on the screen.
    I can hear everything Great Baldo is saying. How could a professional like Campbell Gunn send an email to a newspaper without checking his sources like that? It gets more and more suspicious.

  187. Perhaps the Rev Stu can find space to Post the comments of unelected peers,MP`s and MSP`s whose rants versus the Weirs set a very low bar for abuse.

    The Weirs were subjected to far worse abuse for a much longer period than this Labour Party Cabinet member who has a very feeble grip on reality.

    The crocodile tears only appear when it suits her sordid purpose – when the media or tv cameras are handy.

    Anyone who has ever attended local meetings involving labour activists will know the depth of their venality.

    Signally, our labour party heroine has never shed a single tear for the tens of thousands of women and children in IRAQ – before or after her party started their illegal war.

    Halt the Independence referendum – because she had a weep?
    Gimme a frigging brek.

  188. R whittington says:

    @Grouse Beater saying that Claire Lally is corrupt because she has a disabled ramp outside her home is EXACTLY the kind of behaviour that gives the YES campaign a bad name.

  189. IcySpark says:

    @Craig

    Thank you for the clarification

  190. CUTOMMY says:

    Am I missing something?

    Mr Gunn said she was closely aligned to the Labour party. He also said she is the daughter-in-law of a former Labour Glasgow Lord Provost, which she is not.

    The first statement is true. The second statement is false. But which of them is abusive? Is being closely associated with the Labour Party now considered to be a crime? Or is being incorrectly identified as a relative of a respected former leader of the Glasgow Labour Party now considered abusive? I would have thought that as a labour activist she would have been flattered to be associated with Pat Lally.
    If Ms Lally is really so upset by this, she really should get out of the political arena now, because things can only go downhill from here.

  191. Suzanne says:

    I wrote to my Labour MP about the blood and soil thing, asking her to make a point to her Labour party and to the HoC about Darling’s comments. She refused to do so, citing in response her experience the other week of going into the recent Scottish Labour Party Conference and having to pass people whose banners read that she was a ("Quizmaster" - Ed). The term is historically inaccurate, but the underlying premise is the same – that someone has backed the enemy to preserve their own position of safety. We need to find another term that gets the point across without raising the spectre of Nazi collaboration.

    Interestingly she also refused to believe my assertion that the MSM in the UK is about 90% union biased and said she thought it was pretty evenly balanced. Perhaps one’s objectivity gets dulled in the HoP.

    What has come across, both with this story and my exchange with my MP, is that we have almost the entire might and muscle of every single political party ranged against us apart from the Greens and those breakaway groups who are rightly claiming their right not to be subject to a whip. Not only that but we have the various political spin doctors fabricating figures, arguments and slurs against anyone having the temerity to be a Yes campaigner.

    Quite frankly, despite feeling we do need to replace the word ‘("Quizmaster" - Ed)’ with something else if only for accuracy, I’m really not bothered about a handful of people’s hurt feelings in the Labour party, given what we’re dealing with. Clare Lally has doesn’t deserve special treatment if she claims to want to be treated as an ordinary person, but ‘ordinary’ is a weasel word when you’re trying to pass a person off as ‘yer average woman on the bus’ when she’s curled up in the comfy cushions in Bath Street and sharing the sugar bowl. And she needs to toughen up. She’s not going to last much longer if she falls apart over words on a screen. I’m much more concerned about our senior people being threatened with murder and our campaigners being beaten up, though no doubt that will be denied by those responsible and the media despite firm evidence to prove it.

  192. Oui Things says:

    Wingman 2020

    A rally against sub standard journalism? They’ll happily dismiss us until we come out from the keyboard and protest. It’d be a toughy them reporting on a protest against their own shortcomings.

  193. orri says:

    @churm in that case it would seem that her donation to BT or No Thanks or whatever they call themselves next week is yet another charitable donation. But what do I know, I’m only an ordinary punter curious about why someone so concerned about research didn’t simply put her cash where her mouth is rather than intervening in a referendum this late in the day.

  194. I have never, ever, seen anyone use ‘SNP Supporter’ in an ID.

    Very rarely, you will see someone with just ‘SNP’

    I am suspicious as to its genuine nature.

    The message itself is quite believable, the ID seems just too contrived to me.

    Yeah, I agree completely there. It doesn’t appear to be genuine, or at least from an actual SNP voter(half-hearted anonymity is a dead give away that it could be a false flag).

    I found the fact that Willie Rennie thought it was appropriate to bring that up in the Scottish Parliament to be eyebrow raising. The message was in the style of that commonly sent to teachers in those old style school anonymous comment and suggestion boxes. “Dear (name). You are (insert schoolboy insult here), goodbye”

    It’s the kind of thing that smart people just roll their eyes at and move on from. The fact that he actually brought it up and thought it was appropriate to waste time on was absolutely cartoonish in its execution!

  195. TD says:

    Well one good thing at least has come out of all this. Wings over Scotland has been mentioned more in the mainstream media in the last couple of days than any other time since I started reading it. There are even screenshots on the BBC website this afternoon. That combined with Stu’s stellar performances yesterday has to be good in terms of getting the wider message out there.

    Stu – keep doing your invaluable work and expect your figures to go through the roof.

  196. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @
    Churm Rincewind says:

    “J K Rowling has already donated something over a hundred million pounds to charity (best estimate), including well over ten million pounds to fund medical research in Scotland.”

    Evidence please to back up your assertion?

  197. A man`s good name has been traduced and his lifetime`s work ruined because he had the temerity to accept a job from Alex Salmond in exactly the same way she (Lally) accepted work from New Labour.?

    Lamentable,wee roofie and rung rennie all piled into this crass stitch-up at FMQ`s today on what would appear to be 3 x tweets?

    Salmond should have piled into the 3 x elastic union leaders who only last year heaped praise, eulogised Campbell Gunn for his impartial work in journalism.

    Two-faced rats – all 3 of them.

    Theirs is the future on offer. Where they cannot be trusted from one day to the next.

    Were I Campbell Gunn I would SPIT in the eyes of Lamont, wee Roofie and rung rennie – tomorrow – when they pretend to be friendly within Holyrood

    Where will they go after Sept.

  198. R whittington says:

    @Bugger (the Panda) It’s quite common knowledge that JK Rowling is a big philanthropist. See: http://www.learnvest.com/2012/03/money-mayhem-j-k-rowling-no-longer-a-billionaire-123/

  199. DougtheDug says:

    Ian Brotherhood:

    Is “Big Ginger Hairy Highland SNP Supporter” a joke?

    There’s no-one of that name on twitter and nothing in Willie Rennie’s timeline.

  200. Churm Rincewind says:

    @ Bugger (the Panda): JGI. Or if you want to see the evidence with your own eyes just pop along to the Anne Rowling Regenerative Neurology Clinic in Edinburgh.

  201. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Bugger, the dogs in the street know that JKR has given eye-popping amounts of money to medical research.

  202. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @DougtheDug –

    Yes.

    I posted that ‘joke’ at 11.46. FMQs starts at mid-day.

    It speaks volumes about Rennie that anyone finds the ‘question’ remotely plausible. He is, indeed, the Norman Wisdom of Scottish politics.

  203. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    You know, that Rennie thing is so obviously an ironic spoof I have no idea why people fall for it. It seems there’s nothing so outrageously made up that it won’t be believed by somebody.

  204. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Happy wee story.

    A few weeks ago I was delivering Euro election material and thought I saw a BT sticker on someone’s car. I saw it in my rear-view window as I was parking to deliver a supporter’s letter to the adjacent house. (The car was on the road, not in a drive.)

    I gulped a bit and looked closer. “Scottish Youth Football” – the group BT ripped their logo from!

    Today I saw the same car as I was cycling past. I had to do a circle to check. It’s now sporting a Yes sticker.

  205. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Morag Graham Kerr –

    I’m wishing now that I’d put a couple of ‘sniffs’ and/or ‘clears throat’ instructions in the original question. I’m pretty sure Wee Wullie can emote with the best of them.

    In a few weeks, ‘Big Ginger Hairy Highland SNP Supporter’ will be discussed in various past tenses as a genuine character who did this, that, and whatever else.

  206. Morag says:

    I have to photograph that car. Srsly, now looks as if it has both Yes and BT stickers on the rear windscreen.

  207. Grouse Beater says:

    whittington says: @Grouse Beater saying that Claire Lally is corrupt because she has a disabled ramp outside her home is EXACTLY

    Whittington making false accusation is exactly what Yes campaigners are up against in their legitimate fight for greater democratic rights.

  208. Croompenstein says:

    @Morag – I have to photograph that car

    Don’t Morag you’ll get accused of abuse

  209. Kestral says:

    To look at this from another viewpoint

    Are BT totally unable to find 1 non affiliated person to stand up and do a talk

    really, ah mean common, all they have done is turn off those that sat there in that audience and believed they were listing to the girl next door

    and one thing I really don’t get

    Just exactly what in the email was a smear?

    Here is the meaning of it

    A smear campaign is an intentional, premeditated effort to undermine an individual’s or group’s reputation, credibility, and character

    Question Does CL reputation/credibility or character suffer in any manner from a wrong assumption of her being related to former LABOUR L.P. Pat Lally

    maybe it’s a smear cause he was a corrupt labour lord provost? something about votes-for-trips

    Smear tactics differ from normal discourse or debate in that they do not bear upon the issues or arguments in question.

    as far as I can see it exactly dealt with the debate in hand CL was introduced in a manner meant to mislead – he pointed that out

    A smear is a simple attempt to malign a group or an individual with the aim of undermining their credibility.

    Credibility can only surly be undermined if infact the smear is an untruth

    The quality of being trusted and believed in, ie credibility, was this destroyed by CL herself?

    By not placing this information as part of her speech, to be honest with those she spoke with about her vested interest

    Did she once mention her connections in that speech?

    Smears often consist of ad hominem attacks in the form of unverifiable rumors and distortions, half-truths, or even outright lies;

    unverifiable rumors – well obviously it wasn’t that since half the world knows she’s not related to PL now

    Outright lie, means to make a statement KNOWING it to be untrue

    Nope, think you could safely say the guy believed it to be true , Lets face it who in their right mind WOULD ever knowingly send a blatant and so easily disproved statement to the press ON email

    and hence the logical conclusion, he made a genuine MISTAKE,

    Shame that Claire couldn’t find it in her heart to be forgiving for being mistakenly associated with another labour member

    would have been so much more inspiring to the people who have now discovered that they sat through that speech with the intentional withholding of pertinent information

    Probably turned half them into yes’s

    so thanks Clair

  210. donald anderson says:

    No one “attacked” her for being a mother. Pass the sick bucket. Too much schmaltz.

  211. Dick Gaughan says:

    Be not downhearted, companeros. Reasons to be cheerful (pace Ian Dury)

    1. All this faux-stushie can’t have done Ms Lally’s career prospects within the LP much harm. Gives you a warm glow, that does.

    2. Jakey, just your average grassroots multi-millionaire scribbler-next door, will get loads of fresh sales for her flagging back catalogue from all the free publicity which should hoist her back into average grassroots billionare status. Ot course, that possibility will never have entered her head at all.

    3. (Being serious now) The enemy knows they have lost the online battle. They started too late and did too little. In their supreme arrogance, they didn’t even suspect it would matter. Now the only hope they have is the futile hope they can shut us down, which anyone who knows diddly-squat about how the net works knows is pissing in the wind.

    Keep your nerve, we’re winning.

  212. Ian Brotherhood says:

    If this whole referendum palaver ends up getting a commemorative Top Trumps edition, who can the BTUKOKERS put up against Dick Gaughan?

  213. geeo says:

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/referendum-queen-refused-cameron-calls-3682197 

    Seems Cameron trying to dupe another “ordinary housewife” into the debate..

  214. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ R whittington

    I am not disputing that but, 10 millions £ stg?

    She would be in David Cameron’s Cabinet by now??

  215. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Morag

    I have given eye watering sums too.

    Eye watering for me but.

    So, what is your point, please?

  216. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Dick Gauchan

    Double plus good.

  217. lochside says:

    Next BT meeting: ‘I’m Pat Lally’s relative!, ‘No I’m Pat Lally’s relative….etc. ad nauseum.

  218. Bob W says:

    @geeo

    That link throws up an error.

  219. Kestral says:

    I was positive I had seen this statement

    She said that when one of her friends posted online a message of support for her, she was bombarded with dozens of messages of abuse.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10891229/Alex-Salmonds-office-implicated-in-smear-attack-on-mother-who-spoke-up-for-the-Union.html

    Where is the evidence???????

    Can we please have full disclosure of the evidence of these dozens of messages

    not one newspaper, not one television program has shown any of these messages which were in her own words “bombarded” at her

    She would have required to search for the 3 we have identified

  220. Clydebuilt says:

    Louise White’s Morning Moanin Topic “Have recent events made you Scared to voice your opinion in the referendum debate” listeners were told to steer clear of Politics…..
    Yes supporters therefore couldn’t explain the vilifying tactics being used against them.
    Whilst Unionists were laying on thick the dogs abuse they experience.

    The topic was chosen to
    1. put people off talking about the referendum.
    2. encouraging them to stay away from the Internet the domain of the evil Cybernats.

    The YES side’s main campaigning tools are
    1. personal conversations with voters.
    2. Social Media, Newsnetscotland, Wings Over Scotland and Bellacaledonia.

  221. Marian says:

    What evidence is there that this alleged “abusive” online comments are being made by YES supporters.

    According to Australia’s ABC News http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-11/leaked-emails-reveal-aggressive-style-of-john-mcternan/5149158

    …..a “Mr McTernan was hired on a 457 skilled worker visa as Ms Gillard’s chief spin doctor in late 2011 after former communications director Russell Mahoney stood down earlier that year.

    He was a controversial figure who acquired more enemies as Ms Gillard’s prospects waned and her communications errors mounted.

    The emails show he encouraged Labor staffers to mobilise so called “Twitter armies”‘ to ridicule the Tony Abbott-led opposition and attack individual Coalition MPs online, which he would later point out to journalists as proof of public opinion.

    He would forward flattering articles, pictures and memes about himself to staff but lacked basic knowledge of some of Labor’s key policies and attacks, and regularly responded to media and stakeholder criticism with ridicule and abuse.”

    According to Wikipedia “John McTernan (born in 1959, London) is a British Labour Party political adviser, political strategist and commentator.

    He was the Director of Communications for the Prime Minister of Australia Julia Gillard from September 2011 to June 2013.”

  222. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Bugger, my point is that you asked for proof that JKR had donated a million pounds to medical research. You seemed disinclined to believe this without evidence. I remarked that it was common knowledge. Asking for proof of something that is common knowledge is just lazy. Is your Google broken?

    Now, you seem to be changing your stance, and implying that such a donation is devoid of virtue because she is so extremely rich. That is a debatable point, but it is not the point you first brought to the table. Can we have some consistency here?

  223. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Croompenstein, the car belongs to a committed Yesser and SNP supporter. So by definition he can’t be abused.

    (I don’t think he realises his youth football sticker is a BT logo.)

  224. Morag, Re:FMQ parody comments, I think thats part of the problem with Unionist politicians though. They’ve dropped expectations of fair play so low that its actually believable and completely plausible that they might whine about anonymous emails with schoolboy insults, or even make them up on the spot, at FMQ just to attack the SNP and Yes camp. They’ve created storms in smaller teacups before.

  225. DougtheDug says:

    Ian Brotherhood:

    re: Willie Rennie

    It’s got to the point where when you’re dealing with pronouncements from the BT side it’s hard to tell the jokes from reality.

  226. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @DougtheDug –

    Kin right. Especially when you look at the likes of Rennie and Davidson. It’s as if they’re just doing it for a bet.

  227. Grant says:

    Makes you wonder … the NO campaign has tried everything so far and failed, so is the money that JK Rowling contributed being used to fund anti YES cyber attack?

  228. Hamish B says:

    What I have trouble with is why Mr Gunn thought he had friends in the Daily Telegraph.
    Who was the recipient of the private email?

    We should know so that we don’t send them any private correspondence that ends up in the media

    Now where is Mr Milliband and the SUN !

  229. Brian Mchugh says:

    …and Catalonia goes crazy. 😉



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