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Wings Over Scotland


Let’s talk about last night

Posted on May 26, 2014 by

Some considered thoughts on the evening’s events, then.

faragelaugh

Yeah, nice work, Britain.

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THE SILVER LINING

The Unionist parties and the media, as we noted last night, are struggling to contain their glee. In the wee small hours columnists were already issuing forth screeds of text about how having a UKIP MEP damages the Yes campaign’s suggestions that Scotland is somehow fundamentally different to the rest of the UK.

torranceukip

That’s nonsense on every level. UKIP won the UK, but came 4th in Scotland. That’s a rather big and somewhat important difference in a political context.

Had they got 9.9% of the vote instead of 10.4% and failed to win an MEP, it wouldn’t have fundamentally changed anything very much. Nobody knows what MEPs actually do. By winning one, however, they ensured that David Coburn will be on TV and radio and in newspapers a lot more in the next three months telling Scots to vote No, and it’s awfully hard to see how that can be anything but good news for the Yes camp.

PEAK LABOUR

Last night was a catastrophe for Ed Miliband. Even the New Statesman couldn’t put any sort of positive spin on it, calling the result “dismal”. With the Lib Dems absolutely annihilated, Labour had the pro-EU vote pretty much to itself (the Greens increased their vote share slightly and pipped the Lib Dems to 4th, but still only boosted their MEP count by one, to three) and still barely scraped past the Tories into 2nd place.

(When the Scottish MEPs are finally allocated, Labour should have 20 in the whole of the UK, compared to 19 for the Conservatives.)

As recently as last weekend, Labour were still leading in the polls. In the end, they were lucky to be runners-up. A year from now there’ll be a general election in which the Tories will promise an EU referendum and Labour won’t. It requires a heroic feat of self-delusion to see any way in which Labour can win it.

Labour’s entire election strategy for the past four years has been to count on taking enough votes from the Lib Dems to just squeak over the line on 35% of the vote. Well, last night ALL the Lib Dem vote vanished and Labour still couldn’t get the job done.

The low-hanging fruit is all gone, and all that’s left to fight over is the 50% of UKIP voters who say they’ll vote for someone else in 2015. What price Labour’s hopes of taking the majority of them?

FOREIGNERS COME HOME TO ROOST

And while we’re talking about Labour, who could possibly have predicted that spending the last 18 months going on about how awful it would be to have a “foreigner” in your family might result in British voters deciding to vote for an anti-foreigner party?

Or that issuing dire warnings about Scotland being swamped by “a million immigrants” (mumbled small print: spread across 40 years) might lead to an increase in support for UKIP? It’s a mystery defying all scientific explanation. We’ll just never know.

(Coming soon: the SHOCKING LINK between banging on about how amazing Britain is and how great WW1 was, and a rise in British nationalism. Honestly, who could ever have foreseen such a surprising outcome? Etc.)

LIB DEMS, GUARANTORS OF DEVOLUTION

Yeah, good luck with that. The Lib Dems now have fewer MEPs in the whole of the UK than the SNP do (and the same number as Plaid Cymru). We’re not at all sure they could guarantee the tide coming in tomorrow, let alone more powers for Holyrood.

ANOTHER BLOW FOR SALMOND

One of the most bewildering aspects of the results was the media’s eagerness to portray them as a defeat for the SNP. On a night which is widely being assessed as a massive anti-politician protest, the SNP – the party of government in Scotland for the last seven years – actually secured tens of thousands MORE votes (admittedly thanks to an increased turnout, but it held onto its vote share) and came within a whisker of claiming a third seat.

That the anti-UKIP tactical vote was split between the Nats and the Greens is just one of those things that happens in politics. Tactical voting has limits – many Green voters wouldn’t vote SNP for any reason, and vice versa.

Salmond would doubtless have preferred to secure the extra MEP, but the remarkable thing is that there was no discernible protest vote at all against the sitting government, nor any visible backlash against the only party anywhere in the UK campaigning for MORE immigration on a night when pretty much the whole of Europe (except, ironically, Germany) voted for xenophobic right-wing parties.

(As an amusing footnote, the SNP’s vote share was in fact slightly higher in Scotland than UKIP’s was in the UK: 29% vs 27.5%. One of those is being presented by the media as an incredible triumph and the other as a failure. Guess which is which.)

OH, WALES

Labour did manage to beat UKIP in Wales, but by a wafer-thin 0.6%. That’s a real kick in the teeth for the party’s “solidarity” narrative in the independence referendum. Until now it was possible to present UKIP as an essentially English phenomenon, but an incredibly strong performance for Nigel Farage’s outfit west of Offa’s Dyke changed that story dramatically.

Despite there also being a credible left-wing, pro-EU nationalist party available to voters in the valleys – Plaid Cymru notched a respectable 15% – UKIP’s vote share in Wales was almost three times what it got north of the border. There is now no rational argument to be made whatsoever against the fact that Scotland has a significantly different political culture to anywhere else in the UK.

euromap

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That’s pretty much all the things we think about the Euro elections.

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  1. 26 05 14 13:02

    Let’s talk about last night | Scottish Independence News

188 to “Let’s talk about last night”

  1. Dinnatouch says:

    Nice try Rev, but it still doesn’t make me feel any better.

  2. Macart says:

    The fact that certain individuals had a bit of a crow on social media should be all that needs said on the state of our media and certain unionist politicians.

    Never mind that UKIP wrought carnage throughout the rest of the UK’s political parties. Never mind that they exist as any kind of force at all thanks to the media. Its all about point scoring against the Scottish government and the YES campaign. In terms of how low you are willing to sink to achieve a goal, the media and the unionist campaign have just managed to successfully limbo dance under a snakes arse whilst retaining the ability to wave their arms wildly above their heads.

  3. Drew Macleod says:

    If there is a positive element to this it is the number of people I have read both here and on Twitter who were either No or undecided but are now saying this appalling result has galvanised them to vote Yes. And as you say the odious Coburn is a real vote winner!!

  4. bookie from hell says:

    UKIP

    lives Kensington –pmsl

  5. Grouse Beater says:

    We are hated by the guardians of reactionary England and its thieve’s charter.

  6. Excellent analysis, Stuart. However, in these knuckle-dragging, dumbed-down days one feels compelled to paraphrase the Austrian Emperor’s Kapellmeister on hearing a Mozart piece – Too many words? ;o)

    2014 Euro Elections in pictures for the hard of thinking.

    http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/euro-elections-2014-for-hard-of-thinking.html

  7. Nuada says:

    Hmm. David Coburn all over the media until September 18th, waving the flag for the Union. I’m sure somebody at Bitter thinks this is a good idea. Presumably, the same person who thought involving Gordon Brown would definitively put an end to all this nationalist nonsense.

  8. Croompenstein says:

    Also on the bright side we won’t have to listen to that F*cknut George Lyon again. Toodleoothenoo spinning it for all his worth that this is a blow to yes in referendum. Let me tell you toodleoo I’m with the optimists on this and think that when the reality of the English vote sinks in then the Labour vote will turn to yes and game over for your unionist cabal.

  9. MajorBloodnok says:

    Pashtun warriors in the highlands? What is he blithering about?

  10. Taranaich says:

    Good analysis, can’t say I can add anything.

  11. Derick fae Yell says:

    UKIP’s stated intent to end statutory Maternity Leave is an absolute gift to the Yes campaign.

    As will Coburn – he was truly pathetic on Radio Jockland this morning. Coburn / Sturgeon debate NOW!

  12. Derick fae Yell says:

    Intent. Dammit

  13. Edmund says:

    One thing is for sure. After UKIP’s success in England and Wales, both Labour and the Tories will be lurching even further rightwards in order to chase their mental image of a UKIP voter.

    Cue further savage benefit restrictions, more privatisation, further limits on non-EU immigration. Cue derogation from the European Convention on Human Rights, meaning more law-and-order crackdowns and more talk of ‘no rights without responsibilities’.

    In this environment Ed Miliband will not dare to move Labour one iota leftwards (not that he was particularly willing before). Even if he wins next year – which is looking very unlikely – it’ll be New Labour Thatcherite authoritarianism all over again.

    The sad thing is that I’m fairly sure that almost none of those things is what UKIP voters actually want. A nice house, a sense of community, a secure job. Farage had a clear narrative of who to blame and it was only partly immigrants – a lot of the anger was at the establishment.

    I see England becoming a privatised, corporate state where access to justice is restricted and human rights are only for nice, middle-class people.

    The only escape is to vote Yes.

  14. Training Day says:

    Difficult to see a silver lining this morning. The fact is that a reactionary right-wing party, with no campaign or campaigners, far less a manifesto, garnered 10 percent of the turnout vote in Scotland purely down to the coverage afforded it by the BBC.

    It bodes ill for the referendum.

  15. titchyboy85 says:

    The media. Part sensationalist band-wagon specialists, part elite propaganda machine. Well done British voters. Meanwhile…

  16. Pam McMahon says:

    It’s time Scottish Labour grew a pair,and distanced themselves from their national disaster area in Westminster. It’s also time we had a more balanced arguement in the press and media, without the constant attacks and mis-reporting we are subjected to by the BBC and msm. I am ashamed of the votes cast for far-right parties by the electorate of Scotland.

  17. Brian MacLeod says:

    It’s an interesting result. The 2 parties that are campaigning for independence swept the boards. (Even if we don’t like the nasty one).

    What it does mean is that Scotland is in great danger at the referendum. If we don’t vote YES, we are going to be in a union with a UKIP dominated country. We can then expect to suffer.

  18. If the thought of a Tory-UKIP coalition doesn’t scare folk then we truly deserve everything we’ll get.

  19. HandandShrimp says:

    What Stu said

    I haven’t looked at the final numbers but what happens if you strip out the Scottish and Welsh results? Did Labour pip the Tories to second place in England? When I looked last night it seemed that the Tories were just going to sneak it in England. If so, the Ultra Tories first and Tories second is seriously scary. Whereas Scotland it was the two ostensibly left of centre parties first and second. That is about as different as you can get.

    I can’t honestly see what Curtice is waffling about. I am glad the BT types like Torrance and Severin Tweeted their delight. That will be useful in the days and weeks to come. I wonder if Ian Smart will Tweet “Better a 1,000 year UKIP reich than Scottish independence”?

  20. Nick Heller says:

    There’s a Euro Election siuvenir you can get for any UKIP friends or family;

    http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/euro-election-souvenir-special.html?m=1

  21. Vestas says:

    I don’t think Spain voted for “xenophobic right-wing parties” given that PP’s share of the vote dropped. In fact its a fairly large swing to left-wing parties compared to 2009.

    I may be missing something obvious but if I’m not then you may wish to reword your article?

  22. Croompenstein says:

    The good old BBC cut away from the Scottish result and the MEP speeches is this so we don’t hear Coburn make an even bigger tit of himself, Kensington LOL. He get’s away with that because we are a region but when we vote to restore our Nationhood in September it will be tick tock till 2016.

    And then his party will have to change it’s letterheads as there will no longer be a UK sob sob

  23. Roboscot says:

    The BBC’s coverage. No separate BBC Scotland programme so no debate or analysis. Online, the separate Green parties have been treated as one party for UK results, and there is no figure for Scottish turnout.

  24. yerkitbreeks says:

    Did you note the smug look on David Dimbleby’s face when AS drew his attention to the imbalance between BBC reporting on UKIP vs SNP. Says it all, really.

  25. Angus McLellan says:

    Taking a broader view, my take-away so far is that the rise of the extreme right across Europe seems to be a bit of a myth. Before this election the European Parliament was dominated by the EPP (where the Tories used to sit), the Socialists (Labour are here), the Liberals (Lib Dems, Alliance) and the Greens/EFA (Greens, SNP, Plaid). And after? Looks pretty similar. That’s not to say that nothing changed. There was an increase in the share for the extreme right, but it was mostly to a Scotland- or Germany-sized share of the vote, not Englandandwales-, Denmark- or France-sized share. Ten percent of the vote is not quite earth-shattering and is only a couple of points up on 2009 in Scotland.

  26. Jamie Arriere says:

    The biggest thing that is depressing me is that, after over a year of the Referendum campaign which has re-engaged me & thousands of others in Scottish politics like never before, is the god-awful turnout of 33.5%. That’s lower than the UK as a whole!

    We are all, evidently, wasting our time.

  27. Sinky says:

    When does the referendum broadcasting balance come into play as BBC radio Scotland has David Tory Torrance and Prof Curtice pouring cold water onto the SNP topping the Euro polls and translating the results in the referendum?

    As said earlier, the last comparable UK wide election where BBC “national” coverage created a distortion against indigenous Scottish political parties was in the 2010 general election when the share of the votes was Labour 42% (Down 16% in 2014 Euros) , SNP 19.9% (Up 9%) , Lib Dems 18.9% and Tory 16.7%.

  28. Rod Robertson says:

    Your synopsis is absolutely correct however,

    “There is now no rational argument whatsoever against the fact that Scotland has a significantly different political culture to anywhere else in the UK”

    when reading the UK/Scottish MSM, or listening to BBC /STV you will be told the exact opposite.

  29. Flower of Scotland says:

    The John Beattie show on radio Scotland is doing what BBC do . Ignore that the SNP won and concentrate on UKIP!

    I sent two texts to the show saying that the “SNP won , well done!. Forget UKIP! They didn’t win and they will get dumped just like the BNP”. Still haven’t read it out! Wonder why? They don’t read out many of my texts. What a laugh!

  30. kininvie says:

    There’s another way of looking at this. If you look at the regional breakdown, those parts of Scotland where UKIP scored more than 10% are very much the unionist strongholds – either the old Labour heartlands or else places such as D&G, Orkney, Shetland, Aberdeen, where we know Yes is finding it hard going. In contrast, Glasgow – which we know to be relatively sympathetic to Yes, kept UKIP below 10%.

    So I wonder if this wasn’t partly a ‘Naw’ vote – protesting against the referendum and the prospect of the ‘break up’ of Britain – but seeing a vote for Scotlab or Tories as less effective than a UKIP one. Since the SNP held its share of the vote, it can hardly be seen as an anti-government protest.

  31. Nana Smith says:

    Well lets hope the commission doesn’t let this go…however after seeing how they allowed the cbi a get out of jail free card nothing would surprise me. I for one do not trust the electoral commission.

    http://edinburgheye.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/where-does-david-coburn-live/

  32. msean says:

    I remember watching the Coburn guy get interviewed on Scotland Tonight,I thought at the time that that would end ukip hopes in Scotland. Well it seems obvious to me now that he got elected because of Farage and not because of himself.I think it must be the case that most voters in the south of Scotland don’t get Scotland Tonight. Surely.

  33. Turnout will be much higher in Sept and there are only 2 choices on the voting paper. SNP still won hands down despite the continued media bias and UKIP media pushing

  34. mr thms says:

    With the Western Isles result in, what was the SNP share of the vote?

  35. muttley79 says:

    I think this is a reality check for the Yes campaign, and also a kick up the backside in terms of motivation. If we lose the referendum we are basically fucked. UKIP will do a deal with the Tories, and pore most of their resources into gaining seats and votes in Labour heartlands in Britain. They need the Tories to win the general election for there to be a referendum on leaving the EU.

    If we vote No Scotland will suffer enormously. Torrance and Margaret Curran and their like have shown beyond any doubt where their interests lie, and it is not with the people of Scotland. Curran is a dolt of the lowest order. She represents all that SLAB have become in the last decade or so. That Magrit is cheering on the extreme right tells you everything you need to know about her, and her political priorities.

  36. Sinky says:

    In Italy the centre left had a huge win.

    Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi fought off a late challenge from renegade comic Beppe Grillo in voting for the European parliament, with an early exit poll giving his Democratic Party 33 per cent to Grillo’s 26.5 per cent.

    Silvio Berlusconi’s right wing Forza Italia was stalled at 18 per cent, below the 20 per cent the media mogul’s party saw as its target.

  37. Hewitt83 says:

    Great to see SNP on top but these kind of figures depress me:

    UKIP: 140,534
    Britain First: 13,639
    BNP: 10,216

    Over 160,000 Scots voting for Parties like these. Ugh.

  38. Nana Smith says:

    Curran,Sarwar and the rest have really shown themselves for what they are,bigoted disgusting people only out for themselves. We all know the tories have been the rich party,the lib dems well I have no words to describe what they stand for[too much swearing involved]but for me labour are the real betrayers not just of Scotland but the whole UK.

  39. EphemeralDeception says:

    Salmond made an error by taking about an SNP vote against UKIP prior to the election. It is the first time since a while that the part has asked to vote against something other than for something positive. Eg for for a strong Scottish voice in Europe.

    This has given the media some ammunition whether you like it or not. However the media would have taken this angle no matter what the SNP had said or done prior to the election.

    There is wakeup across Europe that is not wholly against Europe but are deeply unhappy how it is run, who is elected and how rulings and laws are set. In Scotland the SNP vote held up really well against this tendency. Labour failed to make any dent either.

    Soon the spotlight will shift onto what UKIP plan to deliver and as previous comments have mentioned: UKIP has nothing to offer Scotland, just an ANTI EU protest.
    When heads start to focus again on the referendum a no vote is certainly looking more stark than ever. However we need to remain positive… except against the BBC, whose actions must be taken to account by YES.

  40. Sorry….

    Giving this guy ‘a platform’ might just help???

  41. I’ve got some detailed tables and maps for Wales here
    http://welshnotbritish.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/eu-election-results-2014.html

    As a summary the council areas where UKIP ‘won’ were all the border counties and traditional tory/anglicised areas.
    Plaid held ‘Y Fro’ which is what we call the Welsh speaking part of Wales, it basically runs from Llanelli in the south to Anglesey in the north. With Labour holding the valleys. The Lib Dems finished 6th behind the Greens.

    If you add up the pro-EU party votes against the anti-EU party votes it works out as 52% for pro-EU. The biggest shock was when I mapped the results and found the map looked almost identical to the 1997 devolution vote.

    It will be interesting how Labour in England react and if Labour in Wales follow them without question. And of course what happens up there will be a major wake up call for the rest of us too.

  42. wingman 2020 says:

    Rev, Is there any reason my posts are not turning up?

  43. Triangular Ears says:

    As I posted on one of the other threads, if we were a proper country with 13 MEPs, like Denmark and other countries of our size, these percentages would result in something like the following seats:

    4 SNP
    3 Labour
    2 Conservative
    1 UKIP
    1 Green
    1 Lib Dem

    with 1 seat spare.

    We should be exploiting this result as further evidence of the need for independence.

  44. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    the yes team need to start pushing how the rest of the world will see scotland after a no vote. cowardly, sycophantic, dependent with no self confidence. together with allowing ourselves to be governed by 2 right wing english parties, tories and ukip. i only hope its a yes vote so i dont need to find a hole to crawl into. im lucky, my mums a scouser so i can claim to be english if a no vote. dont think i would ever admit to being scottish again if we vote no, just too humiliating.

  45. Croompenstein says:

    F*in unbelievable, the big bird bigging up ukip on disreporting Scotland. They showed the clip of Coburn’s name being read out and cut away before his address was read out. F*cking raging these f*ckers have to be brought to account 🙁

  46. Galeforce8 says:

    I have followed wingsoverscotland for some weeks now and I wanted my first comment to be a big thank you to you Rev. for the huge amount of very readable analysis of referendum issues which you provide. For those of us who are hungry for positive and informed comment it is a goldmine. THANK YOU!!!

  47. msean says:

    Still wondering though,where did all the LibDem votes go,if anywhere?

  48. Liquid Lenny says:

    MajorBloodnok

    I have a mate known as AlyBan maybe Coburn misheard somebody talking about him 🙂

  49. Calum Craig says:

    How can a party that had previously never held a deposit in Scotland take 10% of the vote?? Ah, that’s right, good old BBC.

  50. Alex Holmes says:

    Just the other week we were told that the vast majority of the large English population of Scotland intend to vote No…I wonder how many of this same lot voted UKIP?

  51. Giving Goose says:

    It was a good night for the SNP. The media bias was to be expected, so no surprises there. Remember that the Union means the world to it’s apologists. It’s a provider and a safety net for Establishment career types. A positive UKIP narrative is vastly preferable to an SNP one.

    There will be all sorts of knives being sharpened at Labour HQ today and I hope wee Dougie Alexander is watching his back; he’s the intellectual genius with the experience in running campaigns *Not*

    England has seen a slide to the Right. Heads will roll and positions realigned. This is where it becomes interesting for policy watchers. What will Cameron do?

    UKIP are not a one trick pony, it’s not all about immigrants and the EU. Scotland and the future of the UK is high on the Farage list. If Farage utters the phrase “Scottish referendum threatens UK” then expect the Tories rushing to the shredder with the Edinburgh Agreement. Blighty is being threatened from within and without, with Farage coming to the rescue with his strategic vision to resurrect the Greatness in Britain.

  52. Joe M says:

    One real shame of this result, for Scotland and the rest of the current UK, is the pathetically low turnout.

    In these times of austerity measures (and the political denigration of the unfortunate as feckless, lazy scroungers) driving people into poverty and despair, we should be seeing a more politically aware society. Especially here in Scotland, where we will soon be asked to choose between two very different ideologies. It is now clear that the majority of adults, regardless of status, are feckless and lazy. The “it’s only a euro election” argument is pathetic.

    Failing to turn out and vote is akin to sticking two fingers up at the people suffering under the WM regime and saying “I’m all right Jack, feck you”.

  53. Grouse Beater says:

    @Wingman
    Rev, is there any reason my posts are not turning up?>/i>

    That one did.

  54. Jimbo says:

    Well done the BBC and the right wing press for raising the profile of UKIP in Scotland. Nigel Farage will be truly delighted with exposure you gave his racist party.

    Shame on you voters on the Scottish electoral rolls who put your X for UKIP.

    When we have no resident immigrants paying taxes here which help cover the costs of old age pensions, unemployment benefit, sickness benefit etc – When we’re out of Europe and watching our cost of living spiralling out of control because we’re paying import taxes on all European goods -When the pound is so devalued it’s virtually worthless, who will you blame then?

    Not the foreigners – they’ll be gone. Not the politicians – you gave them your vote and they did what you voted for. Blame yourselves, assholes – you’re the ones who voted for it.

    This country is fast going downhill. If Scotland’s people don’t see sense and vote for independence in September, that’ll be the final straw for me – I’m selling up and off to France, a place where people know how to protest and hold governments to account..

  55. Grouse Beater says:

    Captain Farage sets sail for the Fountain of Youth!

  56. Robert Peffers says:

    Well I might be wrong but if that UKIP poll winner in Scotland gets more BBC air-time it can only be a great thing for the YES campaign.

    A more distasteful and ignorant numptie would be very hard to find in Christendom. When the electorate are exposed to more of him it can only benefit the number of votes for YES.

  57. David Agnew says:

    I wonder how No Borders will spin this. United in Bigotry. United in Racism. United in our fear of the Foreign. Simply put we’re better together?

    I understand that UKIP essentially came fourth. I understand that, but its not the party that is the issue here. Its what the party stands for. Thats what disgusts and angers me in equal measure. “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.”

    Even if I were a no voter – I would be appalled that that party like that was gaining a foothold in the UK. For it to be celebrated by a no campaign…I have spoken to a number of people who were voting no. They are not feeling to comfortable with the idea now.

    The union looks less like a hairshirt more like a black shirt. Maybe that’s overstating the case. Its how I am feeling right now.

  58. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s Danny Alexander doing a passable impersonation of a sleepy heifer just about to be hit by a freight train:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/26/european-elections-liberal-democrats-danny-alexander-video_n_5391395.html

  59. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Just the other week we were told that the vast majority of the large English population of Scotland intend to vote No…I wonder how many of this same lot voted UKIP?”

    I’m sure the Sunday Times are on the case.

  60. chalks says:

    I was tempted not to vote. I did though, but I understand why people don’t.

    Farage said it himself when questioned on what he would do now in the EP…..’well my hands are tied, I still believe it is more important for member states to sort out the EU’

    So effectively saying the Euro elections are a waste of fkn time.

    Which everyone knows and why they don’t vote in it.

  61. muttley79 says:

    I don’t think there can be much doubt that the SNP’s campaign for these elections was lacklustre, uninspired and almost invisible. They gave Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh a leading role and it just did not work out. I sense a division in the party over her, and it was wrong to give her such a large role.

  62. Paul says:

    The Yes side better have something up their sleeve and be able to use the three weeks campaigning time to highlight the disaster for Scotland if we stay in this right wing controlled union.
    I fear it is running away from us we seem to be unable to get through the media bias and get our message across to the non political chattering classes. If we are foolish enough to vote no then woe betide the first person that comes up to me later moaning about how hard done we are if they themselves voted no. We won’t be entitled to call ourselves Scotland it will be North Britain or Greater England for ever more.

  63. David McCann says:

    The SNP made a fundamental mistake by not putting out an election communication to every voter, instead of the targeted one posted to SNP members.

    So apart from the party election broadcast, undecided voters, and other political parties got nothing.
    Bad mistake

  64. muttley79 says:

    @Robert Peffers

    The UKIP’s man in Scotland will probably not get anymore coverage. He has done the job the British establishment wanted him to do, and that is stop the SNP winning a third seat. I reckon he will become as invisible as Stairheid Lamont.

  65. Onwards says:

    I think it is inevitable that labour will do a u-turn and offer an EU referendum now.

    Makes a joke of playing up any threat from a YES vote.

  66. Gillie says:

    Bigots Together now seems appropriate.

    The Union Dividend – Nigel Farage and the UKippers

  67. Eric D says:

    Perhaps a pat on the back for the female GMS presenter (don’t know who it was today, sorry) ?
    She managed to embarrass all those who voted UKIP in Scotland by proving just how dumb their Kensington-based MEP really is.
    And boy, is he dumb.
    He couldn’t name a single EU policy he disagreed with. Couldn’t ‘remember’ a single ‘daft H&S rule’… in fact he simply didn’t know …. anything about the EU – just that it’s bad – because Nigel and Paul say so.
    I don’t suppose that will concern the Scottish Kipper who told Morning Call that we should only give jobs to ‘our own kind’, or his buddy who thinks an apprenticeship lasts a week ! Perhaps that presenter should have reminded him that we’ll need Polish welders until the apprentices qualify and get some experience.
    Yes, a UKIP MEP in Scotland means our resident ‘haters’ are already crawling out from under their stones and ‘practicing democracy’. I can’t wait to hear more of their wisdom.
    But at least we can now say that a UKIP/Tory coalition at Westminster is more than a possibility, so we should start reminding all those ‘undecideds’ what that will mean for Holyrood and Scotland !

  68. RenateJ says:

    Agreed, Hewitt83.

    My mother, born 1934 in Germany, remembers Hitler youth etc. This morning she described Farage as being ‘very similar indeed to Hitler’. This is a wake up call to all who find these far right parties abhorrent.

  69. jim arnott says:

    Big difference on Reporting Scotland at 1:30 when the address of the UKIP MEP’s London address was edited out. I think I heard a gasp from the “audience” when the actual result was declared and Coburn’s address was read out as: Kensington, London. Once again the BBC State Propagandist doing its job of keeping the people of Scotland in the dark about opponents of Scottish Independence and where they are located.

  70. Lesley-Anne says:

    Following Coburn squeaking into the sixth and last seat in Scotland I’m wondering how long we’ll have to wait before we see either him or our Nige banging on the front door of Better Together HQ demanding to be let in. After all UKIP are now the fourth force in UK politics, apparently, so they will demanding, won’t they, to become more involved in the organisation of the fight to save the union. I wonder if we will be witnessing the blue light paper being lit any time soon in or around Better Together HQ. 😉

  71. MajorBloodnok says:

    One good thing though is that the Scottish turnout was 5% up from the 2009 European election at 33.5% (compared to 34.19% for the UK as a whole). Plus the SNP now have twice as many MEPs as the Lib-Dems…

  72. JWil says:

    I was listening to Good Morning Sctland today and caught clip of Mr Coburn, who is not exactly fully literate, being interviewed by Gary Roberson who is not exactly compos mentis.

    Gary was his usual annoying self, spewing out all the cliched questions and continually interrupting Coburn when he attempted to answer them, so that it was impossible to understand what was being said. Doesn’t Gary realise that the election is over?

    I believe that Gary is leaving the BBC and I am sure he won’t be too pleased about being given the old heave ho after doing the BBC’s loyal bidding in support of its unionist agenda.

  73. X_Sticks says:

    @Galeforce8

    Welcome abourd Galeforce8!

    Hopefully you’ll be up to 12 on the Beaufort Scale by September and blow the union out of the water!

  74. Gillie says:

    Has the referendum had an impact of Euro elections?

    We know from the recent Sunday Times poll that Scots favour independence by 44% to 42%, but English voters living in Scotland favour the union 66% to 27% which was enough to transform the overall vote against independence, Yes – 40%, No – 47%.

    Has some of that disparity between Scots and Non-Scots ended in pushing the UKIP vote upwards, namely a 5% increase?

    Is that a numerical possibility?

  75. Murray McCallum says:

    So 4th place is the new 1st place in BBC better together Scottish politics.

    Is it just me or do the BBC web pages on the EU 2014 parliament elections fail to provide quick and meaningful summary information. Maybe it will all be clear when 100% of all data in?

    One thing I did enjoy in the EU election last night were the tweets from the Electoral Reform Society Scotland. Lot of timely data and a bit of humour.

  76. Joe M says:

    How to screw up your own life for dummies.

    1. Vote “no” in the indyref.

    2. Vote UKIP/tory/labour/libdem in 2015.

    3. Vote “yes” to leave the EU.

    4. Turn a deaf ear as they they tear up the regulations on human rights and employment rights. Just keep telling yourself ” I’ll be all right, I work in IT/ banking/ finance/ engineering/ oil & gas”.

    5. Be dumbstruck as your employer tells you “take a severe pay cut or your contract is terminated”.

    6. Go home, drink heavily and ask “how did this happen to me”.

    The rest of this decade could be a steep learning curve for some. Or, they could vote “yes” in September.

  77. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry repost.

    I have posted before that when real biased or anti Indy stuff appears we should have a network between ALL the Indy outlets. When something worth appears we could contradict it e masse. Coordination is the key, these sites could depict in it their own way.

    This would mean a very strong way to expose the lies, and deceit we have to deal with.
    All the websites, all the bloggs, twitter, facebook and probably more.
    That would provide a real challenge to the BBC et al, and the Unionists.

    How hard could that be, an encrypted email send to all on the list with one click. Someone who better understands what is involved should be doing this. Otherwise responses will always to challenge such stuff is difficult to achieve big number responses.

    Add in the leafleting, the doorstep discussions, the meetings up and down the land, everywhere we can. That would be powerful.
    It would help our cause no end. Someone please listen!

  78. morgan mc says:

    So a party that has an Asian MEP, Two openly Gay MEP’s and Seven women MEP’s. Fits into the category of Racist, Homophobic and Misogynistic?

  79. Hewitt83 says:

    @Paul

    Completely agree, word for word. How dare we have any cheek to call ourselves a country if we vote No.

    Countries govern themselves, plain and simple. What a laughing stock we’ll be if the worst happens.

    Scotland the Brave? Waffle.

    But hopefully not! It’s going to be close but Yes can win this. Just need to keep getting the message through to people, however late into the game they are.

  80. indigo says:

    @msean

    You’re right that the lack of STV in the south of Scotland has an impact, but it’s worse than that – many of us are completely cut off from the mainstream Scottish TV media, even living in the centre of Dumfries I get BBC North East rather than BBC Scotland.

    I can go searching on freeview and find the Scottish BBC channels at some obscure number, but that’s beside the point.

    A sense of Scottish-ness isn’t normalised when the main TV channels here reflect culture, values and issues of the north of England rather than Scotland.

  81. Peter says:

    morgan mc

    “So a party that has an Asian MEP, Two openly Gay MEP’s and Seven women MEP’s. Fits into the category of Racist, Homophobic and Misogynistic?”

    Ernst Rohm. Fat,racist,homosexual and a Nazi.

    David Coburn. Fat, racist, homosexual and a neo-Nazi/Fascist.

    Away and play with your toy concentration camp.

  82. Horseboy says:

    @X_Sticks
    re: Aye Right flyers

    Good news.

    I’m near Duthie Park.

    Saw your HAT last Saturday at Markies YES stall.

    Can be at Markies or city centre anytime.

    Let me know when, if.

    cheeri

    ps. tried to post this reply over weekend!

  83. alistair says:

    I am not as despondent as many of the readers here. I have been saying for months that there is a huge opportunity for the Yes vote if UKIP do well in England. I have spoken to many Labour ‘no’ voters who if faced with a Tory/Ukip coalition (and turn that into Boris Johnson/ Farage) would vote yes. We need a big push to say Vote No for Johnson/Farage and all that will follow.

  84. jon esquierdo says:

    I have said it on numerous occasions on this site and others .We all need to write to the Scottish cabinet and ask them to get Westminster to agree to neutral observers for the referendum. Look at the fiasco with the electoral commission and the CBI when it withdrew its application to support no.

    It is essential to get observers in if we want a fair crack at the whip

  85. John Gibson says:

    Coburn / Sturgeon debate NOW!

    Bikini debate?

  86. Grouse Beater says:

    The reactionary elements of the British establishment are delighted Ukip has a man north of the border because it maintains Westminster’s predominance over Scotland.

    It was achieved without supporting a candidate for the term of his MEP membership.

    Be assured it is seen as retaining political stability in Scotland because it helps subordination to Westminster’s demands.

    The last thing Westminster wants is a hostile hegemon dominating a country next to its prime border.

    The dissemblers running Vote No Borders must be thrilled – a fellow travellor installed in Scotland at no extra cost.

  87. cal says:

    UK vote by “region” for UKIP
    E England 35%
    London 17%
    SE England 32%
    SW England 32%
    E Midlands 33%
    W Midlands 31%
    Wales 28%
    Yorkshire 31%
    NE England 29%
    NW England 27.5%
    Scotland 10.46%

    As you can see Scotland has exactly the same political landscape as the rest of the UK.In fact you couldn’d get as much as a cigarette paper between them. Ironically, London is the part of the UK closest to Scotland in terms of its enthusiasm for UKIP. Oh dear Wales….

  88. Betsy says:

    Well that didn’t take long. Coburn off to a flying start insulting an Italian.

    https://twitter.com/GoodallGiles/status/470905588470538241/photo/1

  89. Grouse Beater says:

    Coburn off to a flying start insulting an Italian.

    Hubris and glee will have the cockroaches mouthing all sorts of hatred now they feel their existence justified.

  90. Democracy Reborn says:

    @Joe M

    Absolutely spot on.

    I’m beginning to feel like a parrot, but that message needs to be bombarded to EVERY Labour/Lib Dem voter in Scotland.

    The scenario you have just described is accurate. And it’s the complete antithesis of what any progressive, left of centre voter believes in & wants. In fact, it’s already started : the Tories have already restricted employment rights. More will follow along with continued austerity, further attacks on welfare entitlement, privatisation of the NHS & repeal of human rights legislation.

    Tasks even a cursory look at any of the Conservative blogs : their wet dream, and goal, is a minimalist, low wage, low benefits state with public services being privatised & little-to-zero employment rights (including abolition of minimum working hours).

    It’s a 21st century Dickensian state. DOES SCOTLAND REALLY WANT TO BE PART OF IT?

  91. Flower of Scotland says:

    O/t

    Was watching the BBC Radio1 concert at Glasgow Green and thought something was missing! FLAGS! Loads of them at T in the Park! Did the BBC ban them? They wouldn’t have wanted lots of Saltires flying at the weekend!

    Surely we pay for an unbiased National Broadcaster! We HAVE to pay the BBC! Why can’t we do something about this propaganda!

  92. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    In a couple of weeks the EU results in Scotland will be largely a distant memory. The legacy of the UK wide vote will be the re-election of the tories in 2015, due to Labour’s ineptitude and a great number of UKIP voters voting tory. Job done.

    As a consequence Cameron will stiffen the tories anti-EU rhetoric, increasing the odds for a UK exit.

    All in all a good night for the YES campaign. As far as UKIP getting 10% of the scottish vote? We have morons/bigots/poorly educated too, but not 30%.

  93. Chic McGregor says:

    @Major
    “Pashtun warriors in the highlands? What is he blithering about?”

    I shouldn’t, so soon after our great triumph, but maybe it is in reference to the old Perth fitba gag (not really):

    Q: Whit’s the difference between a Pashtun and an Arab?
    A: No a’ Dundonians are Arabs, but they a’ come fae a Pashtun. Boom boom.

    I really like Dundee, it has been transformed in recent years.

  94. Grouse Beater says:

    Italians in England – WWII

    Churchill demanded that his troops and police “collar the lot” – which they did, many sent to prison for no reason other than being Italian, and thousands deported.

    Over 1,190 Italians and crew were drowned at sea when a German U-Boat torpedoed the RMS Lusitania, a ship taking Italian families back to Italy against their will, men, women and children who had seen themselves as “British,” had contributed to English society and economy, and were resolutely against Mussolini, as were many living in Italy.

    “Oh, oh, Antonio …” goes the Cockney music hall song, the woman singing of her long-lost Italian romeo, an ice-cream saleman.

  95. Alba4Eva says:

    Dr Giacomo Benedetto doesn’t look old enough to remember WW2… Coburn is a disgusting shite of a man.

  96. Hugh Wallace says:

    The UK is in the midst of two major constitutional upheavals at the moment; the first is the rise of the far-right and the likelihood of a withdrawal from the EU and the other is the potential departure of one of the two founding members of the Union. From the Scottish perspective, Scottish independence is surely the most important issue but in the rest of the UK (and by this I really mean England with its massive population) I don’t know which is more important. Both equally I would say. Yet the way the British media has been fawning over the rise of a minority extremist party and allowing it to push the political agenda of the entire nation to the right while simultaneously downplaying and being hyper-critical of the Scottish independence referendum speaks volumes. Perhaps, from the UK’s perspective, the most important factor in all of this is that the people of the UK, north and south of the Border, are shouting loudly that the current political system in the UK is not working properly but the three ‘wise’ monkeys leading the three major political parties all appear to have their fingers in their ears and their eyes firmly shut. Wake up people, your political system is broken; somebody fix it!

    http://arewebettertogetherscotland.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/wise-monkeys-of-the-media/

  97. Ellie says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this is good on a number of levels.

    Firstly and perhaps most importantly is that last night has pushed the reality of Scotland’s future into sharp relief. It’s independence or UKIP A TORY, that’s the choice. That’s what is ahead of “Great” Britain.

    Secondly it get’s UKIP into the debate. I mean, as much as we would all prefer them not to exist the fact is they do. I can’t imagine debating UKIP is a pleasant experience but YES Scotland shouldn’t be looking this particular gift horse in the mouth, their policies, where they exist at all, are bonkers. In a debate Nicola Sturgeon or any of the other yes campaigners would make mincemeat of any of them. And as for Farage………an hour debating with Alex Salmond should be quite sufficient and shall we say revealing about the future of Britain post the 2015 election. No, I can’t say I’m sorry that UKIP will now be playing an active part in the No Campaign (whether NO wants them or not) in fact, YES should insist they are.

    Thirdly this is the wake up call all the waverers, shilly shallyers and apathetic required. There have been too many people in Scotland content to leave the future of Scotland in other people’s hands, too content to believe whatever comes out of Labour’s mouths or they read in the paper. Too content to think if they do nothing then nothing will change. Too content not to think for themselves. With this result that little comfort blanket should be ripped right away.

    It’s everyone’s RESPONSIBILITY to vote for the best future for Scotland. I wonder how many of those people sitting on the fence or even voting no think that allowing Scotland to potentially be governed by a Tory/UKIP government is even sane, much less responsible.

    So while as a human being I’d rather we weren’t having to deal with UKIP going up to the referendum, as someone who wants the best for Scotland I’m rather glad we are.

  98. dkcm99 says:

    Alex Holmes @ 1.21pm

    Exactly who was it that told you that?

    The MSM by any chance? Must be true then, they surely wouldn’t dare flat out lie would they? They surely wouldn’t sink so low as to deliberately try to stir up trouble would they? If they did the Yes campaign would find a way to bypass the msm and expose them. Wouldn’t they…..?

  99. Croompenstein says:

    @Hugh – It is a deliberate ploy of the British to ‘play down’ the referendum to try and make us feel unimportant or a sideshow. Make no mistake the referendum is THE most important thing in the corridors of power. I can’t really explain why they are pushing ukip so much it is divide and rule to some extent.

    I imagine they will push the not different politically due to Coburn’s win but the whole thing stinks to me. Losing Scotland would be seen as an unmitigated disaster for the imperialists so let’s stay calm and focused for yes and a better Scotland.

  100. Tronnis says:

    I fail to see how this can be anything but a massive upside for the Yes campaign.

  101. X_Sticks says:

    Horseboy says:

    “re: Aye Right flyers”

    Aye, Horseboy, bit of coal face duties last weekend. Good response overall.

    All being well I should get the flyers from Brian (thanks Brian 🙂 ) next weekend – you can get my email over on off topic. Drop me a mail and we can arrange a hook up once i’ve got them.

  102. Nana Smith says:

    Good to see my old homeland was sensible.

  103. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Chic McGregor

    Rather randomly, it has occurred to me that as the two official languages of Afghanistan are Pashtun and a form of Persian, it is possible, what with his vehement ignorance of and attitude towards ‘foreigners’, that Mr Coburn is unlikely to be able to distinguish his Farsi from his Ebo.

  104. Chic McGregor says:

    @~Major

    Oh Bravo!

  105. James123 says:

    There was a Scottish Labour MP being interviewed on the BBC News Channel earlier. She claimed that UKIP winning a seat in Scotland shows how similar we are to England. Yeah because 10% and coming fourth and 28% and winning are the same. If anything it shows how different we are.

  106. Politics is the art of the possible. It also has become the art of weasel words. In England 28% is spun as a resounding success for UKIP while in Scotland 29% is a disaster for SNP. When an incumbent party does badly in any mid term election it is considered to be par for the course however when SNP maintains its vote after 7 years in government why would the press and TV not report this as a noteworthy departure from the norm. We all know why.

  107. Chic McGregor says:

    Apparently Dubya, when he was told he was going to Perthsire for the G8 thought he was going to Iran. An error not immediately refuted upon hearing the local accent.

  108. Murray McCallum says:

    Breaking news – Dundee United have won the SPL 2013-14. Jackie McNamara blows apart Neil Lennon’s claims of title, says Daily Record.

    I struggle to get used to the new Scottish ranking and awards system.

  109. JPJ2 says:

    I note the Euro results in Catalonia with interest:

    “the three Catalan parties that back the referendum captured 55.83 percent of the vote in Catalonia”.

    I wonder what the EU attitude will be if Madrid sends the tanks into Barcelona?

    I think the eventual resolution of the Catalonian situation will in time (particularly if sadly there is a No vote)be very important to Scotland.

    I do not believe that the EU, who kept Spain out while Franco was in power, could just ignore Madrid aggression whilst whimpering about Crimea and East Ukraine.

    Any thoughts anyone?

  110. HoraceSaysYes says:

    Round of applause for that, Major! 😀

  111. Les Wilson says:

    Nana Smith says:
    26 May, 2014 at 1:01 pm
    ” I for one do not trust the electoral commission.

    Hi, neither do I, not one bit. I emailed them on two issues
    one was the CBI debacle the other was why on the Euro ref tick boxes under the ” The Conservatives”
    then a line under their tick box was
    “Scottish Conservatives vote no to Independence”

    I asked just why is that allowed in the Euro Referendum?
    It is clearly a political statement nothing to do with this particular referendum vote. I am unsure the” Scottish Conservatives” are a political party on their own or just a branch of the UK party. The statement was the issue, but I asked that question also.
    No reply!

    Does others think this is impartial?or even legal? in the circumstances.

  112. MajorBloodnok says:

    Ta, it was a bit convoluted but I got there in the end. 😀

  113. Chic McGregor says:

    @James123

    TBF James, I don’t think it is that we are fundamentally different. it is more that the circumstances are different.

    England is grossly overpopulated. With the same population density, for example, France would have a population of around two hundred and seventy five million.

    Whereas Scotland is little bit under populated if anything.

    Plus, membership of the EU and ECHR are restricting many of the things Westminster politicians and others of the Establishment would like to do, so there is shaping of the media from that side too.

  114. Mike says:

    Training Day says:

    26 May, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Difficult to see a silver lining this morning. The fact is that a reactionary right-wing party, with no campaign or campaigners, far less a manifesto, garnered 10 percent of the turnout vote in Scotland purely down to the coverage afforded it by the BBC.

    It bodes ill for the referendum.

    Then allow me to give you one.
    The turnout vote was 32.8% making the 10% nothing more than 3%. Relate that to the so called 70% anti immigration poll and you can also take comfort in the fact that UK polling is in dire straits as well.
    67% of the Scottish electorate doesn’t care enough about the EU nor immigration to make an effort to vote and these are the only issues UKIP can argue on. It also means that the No campaigns scare stories on the EU don’t have any impact either in spite of it being one of their main bones to chew on.
    I actually take a lot of comfort from the reality. UKIP have given Scotland a media mouthpiece without a brain to moderate it with. I cant wait for Coburn to get started.
    I felt the exact same way when Labour made Lamont the opposition leader in Scotland.

  115. Jim Mitchell says:

    I wonder how much of this result is down to those who couldn’t be bothered to vote?

    That of course does not take away from the responsibility of those who actually voted for ukip, and who I believe, in the main, are going to feel pretty stupid very soon when they finally realise what it is they have voted for, the fact being that UKIP are now truly out in the open with nowhere to hide and we have to exploit that.

    It’s not the first time that the SNP have had to recalculate following an election but we have still arrived at a referendum position, and they will do so again, as for the other unionist parties, of course they will make or try to make the most of it and we can exploit that too, just as we can exploit the reality of what is going to happen south of the border when the realignment of the parties takes place, sooner rather than later.

    This does bruise a bit, but it’s time to stop moaning and crying in anguish and to get back on the referendum attack, sad as it may be, we can use at least some aspects of this result to Scotland’s advantage.

  116. heedtracker says:

    Coburn’s in the center of the Indy debate now but the BBC will protect him and edit his BetterTogether stuff, just like they do all the rest.

    eg. Coburn’s against same sex marriage because it’s intolerant of straight married couples views who are against. You couldn’t invent a bigger idiot than this guy but BBC shysters will sell him to us like he’s Abraham Lincoln. This is a massive propaganda war and the BBC have all the power to do what’s necessary.

  117. scottish_skier says:

    So a party that has an Asian MEP, Two openly Gay MEP’s and Seven women MEP’s. Fits into the category of Racist, Homophobic and Misogynistic?

    According to Better Together UKIP are xenophobic and so are people from England.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BokICjhIQAEFjhL.jpg

  118. @Cal
    As you can see Scotland has exactly the same political landscape as the rest of the UK.In fact you couldn’d get as much as a cigarette paper between them. Ironically, London is the part of the UK closest to Scotland in terms of its enthusiasm for UKIP. Oh dear Wales…

    As I mentioned in a previous thread, the greatest irony here, by Better Together/Kipper logic (of course), is that England has the same political landscape as France, going by the European election vote. It amuses me to no end when they pull out that “Scotland and England are no different” argument, because with regards to England and continental Europe, that kind of comparison is even more true!

  119. Capper Deluxe says:

    Honestly, the only thing keeping me in Scotland now is the referendum, the faint hope that we can gain a hand on our own destinies, restoring something that many of us have known all our lives, Scotland never stopped being a country. but after the euro elections i’m ready to go nearly anywhere in the commonwealth i’m sure my skills as a class 1 HGV truck driver will be of use somewhere, but really , living in the uk as it stands with the farther and farther right aspect of politics makes me sick to the stomach. next thing you know BNP Britain first and EDL/SDL will be gaining support as the mainstream parties (UKIP included) are not going far enough for the people that do not see the current political consistency problem (That there are too many immigrants, flooding into the country taking all the jobs and claiming all the benefits) how can they claim the benefits if they are working (pick one people please)) when infact if people were encouraged to move into the north of england and scotland buinding new towns as they go, they would sort out a lot of their little england problems. Still the horrible result of that election has one good thing , I see it as helping convert more undecideds to our cause. sorry to have ranted

  120. mr thms says:

    Brian Taylor reports..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27572290

    “Final results from Scotland in – sans the Western Isles which is due later. SNP top the poll – and declare themselves delighted with that.

    However, they are less than delighted that they have failed to squeeze out UKIP. It looks like David Coburn will become Scotland’s sixth MEP.

    Plus, their voting share as it stands is down on five years ago.”

    He then omits to say by how much… 0.02%

    The SNP achieved 28.9% this time compared to 29.1% in 2009

    That 2009 result was an increase of 10% compared to 2004

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8088358.stm

  121. chalks says:

    Was thinking about this earlier…but perhaps some anti EU people in England wouldn’t really mind us leaving.

    We want to be in the EU, they don’t.

    We vote Yes, we stay in the EU.

    Ruk eventually leaves EU…..we are then faced with us being in it and England not…..there are some advantages to not being in the EU….which surely we would be able to benefit as well as England obtaining some benefits of being so close to an EU member?

    Would be an interesting concept anyway….

  122. Footsoldier says:

    Maybe some of my fellow Scots are thick or simply do not care. I cannot imagine any other country looking at their future in a few months time one way or the other not taking the opportunity to vote.

    I am getting a little bit fed up taking all of this media onslaught. Where are our attack dogs?

  123. heedtracker says:

    It’s like the day St Thatcher came to power. The right in England are resurgent and we are all going to be krapped on from a great height, just like the last time, Wish I was 15 again though, with a mohican. “Ruled by effete arseholes”

  124. Ivan McKee says:

    O/T

    On the Campaign Trail

    ‘Too Poor ? Aye Right’ Tour

    Get undecideds along to hear why we can’t afford not to be Independent.

    This week I’m speaking at :

    26/5 Laurel Bank Hotel Markinch at 6pm

    27/5 Princess Suite, Bruce Hotel, East Kilbride G74 1AF at 7pm.

    28/5 St Bryce Kirk, Kirkcaldy KY11ET at 7pm (with Pat Kane and Natalie McGarry).

  125. Sadly I wasn’t aware of any SNP Euro campaign. I don’t think such a low key campaign helped win a third seat. And Tasmina came over very poorly on the one TV debate I saw, with a smile stitched to her face and a pitch that was put in motion every time her string was pulled. She seemed to have nothing worth saying.

    In the gale of UKIP anti-EU publicity, we were never reminded of the positive legislation the EU has been responsible for, which has bettered lives.

    The SNP workers and teams must be feeling tired after such a long referendum campaign, but there seems to have been little in the run up to the Euro elections. Many poster on this site have commented on this, hoping the end of this month would see the campaign gates open. My fear is that in neither the SNP nor the Greens taking the Libdem seat it will be portrayed as a loss of momentum for the Yes side, and that perception could be damaging.

  126. MajorBloodnok says:

    Coburn will definitely get on Question Time now. Which may not be entirely helpful to UKIP in Scotland or by extension UKOK.

  127. Chic McGregor says:

    My last post didn’t get through again. Is there a new posting rate limit or something? I do tend to not visit for a while and then splurge.

  128. heedtracker says:

    Dorothy SNP did realy well in Aberdeen so something worked up here and despite very very dirty aggressive local Press and Journal coming at them relentlessly. We have a far right neo fascist local and national press and broadcasters here in teamGB. So now it’s the foreigners turn and tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs, tomorrow belongs to me.

  129. gardennat says:

    I’ve got to agree with those who are criticising the SNP campaign.I was worried from the start of the campaign that contacting only identified supporters would result in a vast section of the electorate being ignored.
    We spent the last six days of the campaign delivering leaflets to as many voters as possible who had received nothing from the SNP. We couldn’t do it earlier because the leaflets were not available before then.
    It looks like the SNP decided that as they only needed another couple of percentage points to get another MEP they would hold back and wait for it to happen.
    On this occasion they got it wrong. Let’s hope lessons have been learned.

  130. Viking Girl says:

    It’s a mistake to blame the media for the rise of UKIP. It has been caused by the mainstream parties inablility to deal with the public’s concerns about the EU. They have appeared to be weak and the doesn’t look good.

  131. dennis mclaughlin says:

    It wos the BEEB wot won it , innit.

  132. Heather McLean says:

    Derick fae Yell says:
    “UKIP’s stated intent to end statutory Maternity Leave is an absolute gift to the Yes campaign.

    As will Coburn – he was truly pathetic on Radio Jockland this morning. Coburn / Sturgeon debate NOW! ”

    Nicola would chew him up and spit him out!

  133. heedtracker says:

    Viking Girl if so why did the BBC give UKIP 4x more coverage than the SNP and that’s just for Scotland. Thanks to the BBC/itv/every news paper, Farage is a household name but really all because the BBC made it so.

    The biggest nightmare’s been the raging hypocrisy of the Guardian newspaper. Look at the ghastly Severin Carrell tweeting for joy late last night when he got the Coburn win.

    Absolutely horrific characters in these news rooms now and look at how progressive and liberal the Guardian says it is?

  134. TJenny says:

    Just a wee mischievous thought, as we know UKIP MEPs rarely appear in the EU Parly, maybe the YES side could ask Mr Coburn to take up any of the BT ’empty chairs’ on the panels in forthcoming events. Now that would be fun and good for Yes, no?

  135. Flooplepoop says:

    On a plus point, i’ve just been on face book and one of my nephews friends had a post on how disgusted he was about the UKIP vote.
    There was a big response to it, and a lot of younger people who hadn’t even registered to vote were going to register as soon as possible and vote Yes,it was quite heartening.
    This UKIP blip may have major consequences for a bigger turnout for Yes.
    Sometimes you have to suffer pain before getting pleasure 🙂

  136. Les Wilson says:

    All this has nothing to do with UKIP, not their charm, not
    their skills, not their policies, it is all done by a corrupt British media.

    Without the hours of tv, the mega number of articles in the press, they would not have got anywhere.
    Nearer the UK election just watch how they turn on UKIP and particularly Farage. The British state is the best at something, and that is deception.

  137. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I have a new epithet for the BBC

    Political Vandals

  138. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Flooplepoop

    Sometimes you have to suffer pain before getting pleasure 🙂

    Where is T Jenny when you need her?

  139. Croompenstein says:

    The British have an agenda we can only guess what it is. In the 80’s the SDP split the vote on the left to allow the neoliberal Thatcherite agenda to continue. Now ukip are going to split the vote on the right (Labour being the right) and allow the neoliberal Thatcherite agenda to continue.

  140. TJenny says:

    BtP – 4.18 – Waves. 🙂

  141. Les Wilson says:

    I can’t seem to find the Western Isles result yet, anyone know?

  142. Les Wilson says:

    Croompenstein says:

    Yes, that could be the answer.

  143. Les Wilson says:

    Ivan McKee says:

    Keep it up Ivan, you do a great Job!

  144. MajorBloodnok says:

    @TJenny

    I do hope that David Coburn won’t be too busy to be a panelist for BT particularly as he is unlikely to bother representing Scotland at the EuP. However, he may not even have time for that, as according to his wiki page he intends to stand in Bexleyheath and Crayford in the 2015 UK general election.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Coburn_(politician)

  145. Matt Seattle says:

    Of the many factors at work, I believe that the ground in which UKIP has been able to grow and flourish has been very well and dug and manured by Theresa May over the last four years.

  146. heedtracker says:

    If Coburn’s been fibbing about his address for these elections, he could be the holder of the smallest term in office ever.

  147. Les Wilson says:

    Western Isles 43% for SNP, as reported in link by NANA above.

  148. Clootie says:

    I’m still having a bad day 🙁

  149. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Major

    I believe that UKIP will use the EuP as a source of liquid cash, just as Nigel Farage has been doing.

    The MEPs reputedly can skim up to a million Euros on unaudited expenses and if we take it that the UKIPERS will not even bother to turn up, except for beer drinking competitions, they could be skimming €20+ millions a year for future World domination?

  150. Richard Bruce says:

    So we still have many knuckle draggers able to sign their name in box.

    Will there be an area breakdown of the vote? Allowing a vote spread map? It will be interesting to see where the knuckles are dragged most. Or is that just wishfull thinking?

  151. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Clootie

    I have just resurface and had to open a bottle of red.

  152. Peter Herbert says:

    Is David Coburn actually deranged or simply a really nasty man? I have seldom if ever heard such a load or garbage from any man on TV. The YES campaign should give him as much publicity as it possibly can – he will bring votes pouring in for independence!

  153. TJenny says:

    MajorBloodnok – can he be both or would he have to stand down as Scottish MEP? (he’d in effect be representing in 2 diff countries) or is the Bexleyheath + Crayford gig a fallback if we get indy? Presumably if he does have to stand down in Scotland, he would be replaced by the next UKIPer on the list moving into his place?

    ps autospellcheck thingy suggests ‘hotblooded’ for MajorBloodnok. 🙂

  154. katsoft says:

    Taken all day to think about result. First thoughts leave the country, I don’t want to be associated with Upuke.
    But on more reasoned thinking perhaps those good people at SBBC, there must be some, will stand up and be counted. Firstly by knocking back the EnglishBC’s main news programs.No English based news on Scottish broadcast areas For Scots to get a less biased viewpoint then from now until after 18 Sept. We should receive news only from Scots based news programs, so STV news instead of ITV news. As for BBC2/3/4, Ch4, Ch5. not much we can do but anything coming from London should carry a warning that the content may be biased. Newspapers nothing much we can do except NOT BUY THE BIASED B’s leave them in the shops, we could all report their bias to ombudsman, doubt much use though. something about in WM’s back pocket?
    SNP must start to be much more proactive and force the Bitter mob to justify and properly confirm their project fear spoutings.We must do our best to force the media to be more neutral, by whatever means.

  155. MajorBloodnok says:

    @TJenny

    I think if both Scotland and the rUK are in the EU then he could be a Scottish MEP and an English MP at the same time, if only because of the EU’s enlightened attitude to employment restrictions. Clearly if Scotland gets kicked out of the EU then there are no MEPs anyway, but if the rUK leaves and Scotland is still in the EU then unless Coburn has EU citizenship then he’d have to resign (probably).

    Also, I think the way it works with MEPs is that if one resigns or leaves (or is declared insane, although being a loony is probably acceptable, because that’s a prerequisite for selection by UKIP anyway) for any reason then the seat remains empty until next time – there are no by-elections for the EuP (I could be wrong about that).

    As for spellchecker – I’ve always found it to be very perceptive… 😀

  156. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ T Jenny

    I am not sure about representing two constituencies in different parliaments but

    Lord Whatizname who dances with old unsuspecting women and knocks the hats off unsuspecting Policeman was a Lard in the House of Lards and yet still a MSP.

    As was both a member of Westminster and Holyrood, albeit the constituencies were different

    and

    Ian Paisley did much the same thing for donkey’s years.

    Don’t lose any sleep over it, he will probably be unmasked as a closet pal of Radio 1 DJs, or DogsRUs

  157. Thomas Valentine says:

    Its become traditional now for the freaks and neo-nazi to come out in force whe they see an opportunity of getting any power. Local councils and EU parliament being their main play time. They get their vote out when the rest of the population couldn’t give a damn. SO UKIP even then could only raise 3% of the entire electorate. Comsequently when a serious (to the general public) vote comes up they will fall as a share of the vote cast. 75% or 80% cast will see them down to maybe 5% if they are lucky more likely 4%. Not the 10% they showed last thursday. But that’s PR for you. Still better than first past the post.

  158. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    AS not As

  159. Les Wilson says:

    On Sky News just now the Scottish reporter saying how bad the result is for the SNP and that the campaign for Independence is waning of late. DOH!

  160. G H Graham says:

    Stu, you did miss out one important point.

    Torrance couldn’t analyze fruit juice stains on his string vest.

  161. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think you’re being a wee bit unfair there GHG…to fruit juice! 😛

  162. TJenny says:

    O/T – the Rev’s just tweeted:
    ‘If you’re in Linlithgow, get yourself along to the Bowling Club to see Derek Bateman, whydoncha?’

    Any of us anywhere nearby? I’m not although would be good to see/hear him – unless of course, he’s playing bowls. 🙂

  163. Schrodingers Cat says:

    clegg not looking well in his interview, my worry was he would resign and precipitate a GE, i think this danger is past, at least until the 19th sept

  164. Jamieboy says:

    Calm down everyone. Farage is popular ( like Alex Salmond) because he speaks simple easy to understand language which contrasts with the code spoken by the monochrome career politcos. Once UKIP are forensically examined they will be seen for what they are – a contradictory mess. To do so you need to get the gloves off and box hard

  165. Andy-B says:

    Good article Rev.

    Maybe the low turn out,swung it for UKIP in Scotland, I heard it was around 30% or there abouts, on a positive note the SNP as you say received a remarkable amount of votes, for a sitting government, since 2007. I suppose it shows that the Scottish public still have faith in them overall.

  166. The SNP has been strong in the north-east for a long time. But here in the Borders you wouldn’t even know there was a referendum never mind EU elections. This is a scattered rural area where communications are not of the best.

    Lots of retired English people who think we are just the same as down south but with no prescription charges, and ITV programmes that come to south-east Scotland from around Manchester — so very limited Scottish news, and what there is comes with a sneering bias.

    The referendum campaign needs a blast of vision and positivity from the Yes side. Hopefully it’s coming as I’m beginning to remember in graphic detail what it felt like on 2nd March 1979.

  167. Walter Scott says:

    Who would think the People’s Party would be crowing at a victory by a Party full of racists, homophobes & sexists.

  168. Liquid Lenny says:

    Every body is giving the SNP a hard time over their Euro Election Campaign, maybe they decided that a UKIP Euro Mp in Scotland would be a good thing for YES.

    The SNP organisational and tactical skills are at the top of the game, they don’t screw up.

  169. Schrodingers Cat says:

    the unionists didnt want ukip in BT
    there is no excuse now
    we should put coburn center stage as the new face of BT, whether they like it or not

  170. Brotyboy says:

    Giving this guy might just help???

    Please stop trying to hijack every bloody thread.

  171. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Brotyboy

    You talkin’ to me?

    in and Al Pacino Brooklyn accent

    🙂

  172. Heather McLean says:

    I’m beginning to think that Johann Lamont spoke a rare moment of truth when she informed the nation that the Scottish people were not genetically programmed to make political decisions!

    How else can you explain the election of UKIP Party candidate David Coburn last night?
    I’M ASTONISHED!

  173. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Agree with Liquid Lenny, that this UKIP intrusion into Scotland may what is needed to prod all the fence sitters to become uncomfortable on their perch. Might just be part of the plan…

  174. galamcennalath says:

    There once was a man who created a mass following with rousing speeches of social change, national pride and xenophobia. I’m talking about the 1920s …….

  175. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Bugger (the Panda)

    Naw hes talkin about
    eezypeezylemonsqeezy further back up the thread. Who appears to be hijacking most treads with links to his own blog.

  176. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    He has been disappeared

    Concrete slippers?

  177. stonefaction says:

    Flower of Scotland @ 2.39pm

    From the T&Cs for 1 Big Weekend.

    “As well as items mentioned elsewhere in these terms and conditions the following articles are not permitted within the venue – flags, chairs, knives….”

    Flags were also banned in 2013 in Londonderry and 2012 at Hackney. Haven’t checked any further back, but it doesn’t seem to have been specifically introduced for Glasgow. Did see a Lion Rampant and a Saltire during Paolo Nutini’s set. The only one I bothered to watch.

  178. Oneironaut says:

    I’d just like to go on record as saying that picture at the top of this page is the creepiest thing I’ve ever seen!

    That’s like the face of someone who sits in a van parked outside a school with “Free Sweets” spray-painted on the side.

    Serious nightmare fuel right there! Just like UKIP itself. (O.o)

    I didn’t vote UKIP, so at least I can say it wasn’t my fault too much of the rest of the country lost the plot…

  179. Ken500 says:

    How can a Party that gets 140,000 out of 5+ million be representative. The Guy is a freak.

    Don’t know whether to laugh or cry

    Clegg/Coburn.

  180. handclapping says:

    There will be worried faces at the Beeb today. Their support for UKIP blasted them to 30% in E+W but only 10% in Scotland. You can see why Patten resigned. I do hope his successor doesn’t take any bullshit from the Kenmore Quarry as to why.

    It also gives the Yes campaign a figure on how much the MSM will skew the Referendum outcome and to me it looks like something we can handle.

    The second possibility is that the LibDems actually attempt self-preservation and team up with the Tory ultras and Uncle Rupe and campaign for the breakup of the Beeb and to have the “election” conditions imposed on all broadcasting from now to GE 2015. That would tie the Beeb up well and truly.

    As for Labour they should start to worry about their always the flaming bridesmaid, never the blushing bride syndrome

  181. Richard Lucas says:

    The election of an UKIP MEP has made two undecideds of my acquaintance into firm Yes’s. It also prompted me to go out canvassing tonight although my chronic illness was telling me not to. I survived the experience and feel happier and somehow cleaner for having done something to fight back against the banal evil of UKIP.

  182. Stewart McLintock says:

    Just a note to cheer some of us up
    Went canvassing for the Yes campaign tonight.
    Had a few people that were undecided and went straight to a YES after the Euro election result.
    The UKIP thing may be the nudge undecided voters need.

  183. Tamson says:

    On a general point, has this EU election result more or less made the UK’s exit from the EU an inevitability?

    The dividing line between Labour and the Tories in 2015 will be on an EU referendum: the Tories will offer it, Labour won’t. That means any ex-Labour UKIP voter won’t go back to Labour in 2015, and the rest will be voting tactically to keep Labour out. That makes it very hard for Labour to win any Lab/Con marginal.

  184. Ewan MacKenzie says:

    “As an amusing footnote, the SNP’s vote share was in fact slightly higher in Scotland than UKIP’s was in the UK: 29% vs 27.5%”

    …despite there being an extra major party in Scotland: so even more impressive.

  185. allen ralston says:

    what i dont understand is when ever the media talk about nigel farage they always show a picture of a baboons arse why is this ?



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