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Wings Over Scotland

Friends and enemies

Posted on May 26, 2014 by

According to Mandy Rhodes of Holyrood Magazine, this afternoon Johann Lamont issued a press release bizarrely calling on all supporters of “progressive” politics to unite against the SNP and UKIP. Now, that’s fairly mindboggling in itself in all sorts of ways, but we can’t help wondering whether she ran it past her deputy first.


Because that tweet raises a whole host of questions.

The first one, obviously, is about Anas Sarwar’s arithmetic skills. We’ve stared at the election results and scratched our heads a bit, but we can’t for the life of us work out where the hereditary MP is getting those numbers from.


The SNP and Greens are both pro-independence, and their vote totals 37%, not 32%. But are Labour really claiming UKIP, Britain First and the BNP as allies under the “Pro-UK” banner now, even as they pretend to disassociate themselves from them?

We look forward to Scotland’s intrepid and professional journalists and broadcasters quizzing Mr Sarwar on that extraordinary statement, something which we expect to happen sometime around the 150th of Quacktember 2755.

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    1. 26 05 14 17:03

      Friends and enemies | Scottish Independence News

    2. 26 05 14 19:03

      Ridiculous UKOK Claim of the Day #41 | mjaei

    176 to “Friends and enemies”

    1. Kevan Cooper says:

      Shame on the people who voted for this –

    2. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      If the BBC are Political Vandals, Johann is a Political Nonentity.

    3. Murray McCallum says:

      Not a deep thinking person who labels their group “ProUK” and then goes on to talk about fighting nationalism.

    4. Doug Daniel says:

      The only “progressive” thing about Johann’s politics is that it gets progressively worse.

    5. Kevan Cooper says:

      oops , wrong link for above –

      please remove it if possible

    6. iclare says:

      Thanks for this.
      As for
      ‘the hereditary MP’ – only thing that’s put a smile on my coupon today.

    7. Flooplepoop says:

      @Doug Daniel
      “The only “progressive” thing about Johann’s politics is that it gets progressively worse.”
      That cheered me up no end 🙂

    8. Croompenstein says:

      the hereditary MP

      You’re a cheeky b’stard Stu but we love it. 🙂

    9. Jamie Arriere says:

      The useless doofus has probably added the +5.11 under the Labour% to his total – surprised he doesn’t then claim Labour won the Election.

      We cannot let this numpty anywhere near the Scottish Finance ministry, not even as a visitor.

    10. muttley79 says:

      Is it possible to calculate the level of Johann Lamont’s hatred for the SNP? Is it possible to convey just how stupid Anas Sarwar is?

    11. Colin Dunn says:

      It’s going to be an interesting few months watching BT try to balance using UKIP as pro-Union reinforcements whilst desperately trying to not let them actually join the public campaigning itself. Some of UKIPS more juicy intemperances will shove more and more undecideds firmly off the fence to Yes.

    12. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Muttley 79

      You would need a calculator printout on a Mobius strip.

    13. Thistle says:

      OT, sorry so early in posting

      Live stream around 7pm today. Debate including Tory MP David Mundell.

      Unfortunately local council would not give us access to their internet so having to use 3G connection. 50/50 we can get working well enough. You can follow us on twitter for updates.

      ps classic on Wednesday and WoS3 Friday 🙂

    14. Gillie says:

      Labour in league with BNP, it figures.

    15. Democracy Reborn says:

      Labour’s current slogan : “One Nation”!

      What ‘nation’ would that be, then? (Clue – it’s not Scotland…)

      And Crash Gordon will no doubt be up for another of his trips soon. Will he remind us that it’s all about “British jobs for British workers”?

      Do I smell a hypocrisy turd at Labour HQ?…

    16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “oops , wrong link for above -“

      I did wonder 😀

    17. Murray McCallum says:

      Trying to be constructively objective about this, it would be good to see a better together debate with Farage and Cameron to understand their visions for the Union.

      I would also like to hear their informed views on Alistair Darling’s leadership of their campaign.

    18. No no no...Yes says:

      Anas forgot to take into account that some of the Labour vote was on loan. This was on the Labour for Indy facebook site on 22 May 2014:

      “Personal message from LFI Convenor Allan Grogan.

      Friends and Comrades

      In todays Euro elections we are selecting who we wish to see represent us for the entire session of the European Parliament. While members and supporters are of course free to make their own choices, I would like to encourage all members and supporters of LFI to vote Labour in this election and ensure we have a strong Labour voice in Europe during the negotiations with the EU and through the initial years of an independent Scotland. ”

      Anas and Johann are third rate players and hopeless or should that be hapless leaders. They will be history after 18 September.

    19. Pentland Firth says:

      Have any Scottish political journalists asked Johann and Anas yet why Labour failed to win the European election in both Scotland and rUK? And while they are about it, perhaps they may also ask them why we Scots should have any confidence that Labour will defeat the forces of right wing extremism and triumph in the 2015 UK General Election.

    20. MJ says:

      So, Scottish nationalism bad, British nationalism good?

      A must to listen to David Coburns interview on radio Scotland this morning when he couldn’t come up with any EU rules he’d like to change because it was early in the morning and he hadn’t had much sleep.

    21. X_Sticks says:


      Don’t forget to tell them about your fundraiser.

      Loads of them haven’t given you a bean yet!

      If you watch and don’t contribute you are very, very naughty.

    22. Nigel says:

      There’s nationalism on both sides. Supporting the UK Union is as much a form of nationalism as anything else, so be saying that you want to fight nationalism is a bit of a stupid thing to say. As soon as you take a stand for a nation, it’s nationalism.

      The pro-union’s form of pro-UK nationalism is particularly virulent and has resulted in a stunning level of lying, distortions and dishonesty in an effort to save a bankrupt and failing union. I still wonder why some of the pro union advertising is not challenged by the ASA…if you were selling a product and lying or misrepresenting it to the extent the unionist are, the ASA would be down on you like a ton of spent ballot papers.

      As an aside, I wonder if the UKIP result is a blessing in disguise for the Yes side. One thing’s for sure – it should help prevent any potential complacency amongst Yes campaigners. There’s even more at stake now…too much at stake – UKIPs success has to be good ammunition to be used effectively against BT and Vote No Borders. I think it’s high time the gloves came off…

    23. Wee Jonny Campbell says:

      Is the opposite of “pro U.K.” anti U.K? AntiScottish? AntiIreland? Funk I’m now thinkin o Antidepressant? Antifreeze? Antihistamine? Join in folks.

    24. Robert Louis says:

      Judging by a few comments I picked up out and about today, this UKIP win in Scotland seems to have had the effect of turning people towards YES. Some folks are pretty angry, and it isn’t making them turn to a NO vote. Not scientific of course, but it does seem that is the effect in a small way.

      Maybe the opposite of what the silly unionists had expected?

      As for that Lamont woman, how stupid can you be to send a statement as odious and deceptive as that. Has she no integrity at all?? Very silly.

    25. Robert Louis says:

      Anas Sarwar, the man whose own political party slogan is the British nationalist ‘One Nation Britain’, says we need to keep fighting nationalism. Doh!

      Then I remembered, according to unionists, British Nationalism is good, Scottish Nationalism is bad.

    26. Juteman says:

      I can’t understand why the Sarwars’ aren’t trying to get those Pakistani seperatists to rejoin the union with India.

    27. Democracy Reborn says:

      Johann’s “progressive politics”:-

      Support Tory spending plans
      Support Tory benefits cap
      Sound as tough as Tories on immigration
      “Review” (ie. consider scrapping) free prescriptions, council tax freeze, no tuition fees : you shouldn’t get ‘something for nothing’
      Support Trident
      Refuse to commit taking Royal Mail into public ownership

      Yup, more like “progressive” pish

    28. No no no...Yes says:

      Sum thing is wrong with Anas’s addition, perhaps he used this calculator:

    29. Geoff Huijer says:

      So, LFI were encouraging a Labour Euro vote?

      Despite all the anti-Independence bumnff our
      Labour MEPs have been spouting over the last
      wee while?

      Leopards? Spots?

      Just one reason they will never get my vote.

    30. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      WTF do Labour stand for? Not progressive politics, that’s for sure. Progression for the troughers to HoL or lucrative after dinner speaking gigs.

      What are Labour’s policies these days? UKIP have one, albeit to take the country out of Europe, but at least it’s something. I can’t even think of a single Labour policy off the top of my head.

      Anyone who still thinks Labour will win the GE in 2015 is seriously deluded. To Labour undecideds reading this post and all the others – can you not see the opportunity in an independent Scotland for a truly progressive Labour party?

    31. heedtracker says:

      I’m anti Anas. When he did that pitiful prop thing “sign my pledge now Nicola” on his last STV debate, its hard to know whether or not he’d gone mad. Maybe not antiAnas, more poor drippy Anas. There’s a politico spookily like Anas in the US called Rick Santorum which also brings it all back to our Anas.

    32. Nana Smith says:

      loving the last line,needed a laugh after the ukip win

    33. Mary Bruce says:

      I was looking up some of the polling data tables to see what percentage of labour voters would be voting yes (currently 25-28% ish) and noticed in a survation one that 36.5% of UKIP voters would be voting yes.

      Come on, own up, who are you? And WHY???

    34. Garrion says:

      The no-sters are hoping to leverage the SNP=UKIP thing into a classic Rovian “if you’re explaining, you’re losing” play. I hope the SNP don’t touch this beyond making clear and declarative statements that make self evident that it is a nonsense. You can bet your kidneys that any pro-independence or SNP representative in any televised debate from here on in will be baited with this in the hope that they can be drawn into the weeds.

    35. EdinScot says:

      Lamont omits to tell us that the the racist ukippers sit on her side of the fence favouring a no vote. Someone should whisper in her shelllike that being an independent nation is the normal state of affairs but being a racist and discriminating against foreigners is not normal. As long as it has the British tag, it gets pass marks from Johann no matter.

    36. Pam McMahon says:

      The Scottish Labour party is in such dire straits that they will invite anybody, of whatever political persuasion, to huddle with them under their very faded red flag duvet cover.I doubt BBC Scotland will report on their new political affiliations however. Who next? Das Herrenvolk Popular Front?
      The SLP is a lost cause, unless some of them grow balls and better political eyesight, so they can see what side their bread is going to be buttered.

    37. msean says:

      I see Mr Clegg,Mr Miliband and Mr Cameron still clinging to the party lines today,deluded. We need out now before it all gets worse with the election of a kipper mp,which might happen sooner than we think in Newark.

    38. mato21 says:

      Unless we have more immigration to refresh the gene pool all the newborns will have to be called Johann Sarwar or Anus Lamont depending on gender

      I cannot believe a country that will not have a household where their immediate family are either immigrants or emigrants Our people have travelled the world since records began

      It’s a sad day as far as I’m concerned

    39. Pentland Firth says:

      My teenage son today reacted with horror to the news of UKIP’s success, and announced “That’s it. I’m voting Yes in September.” The Unionists glee at the failure of either the SNP or the Greens to win the sixth seat may be very short lived.

      I hope Reporting Scotland and STV news interview Mr Coburn this evening and let viewers see and hear for themselves what is now representing us in Europe. I hope that all those who voted for that odious man and his party listen very closely and reflect on what they did.

    40. galamcennalath says:

      Robert Louis says:
      British Nationalism is good, Scottish Nationalism is bad.

      Yup, that’s their mantra, all right.

      However, as we all know here, it’s not just about Scottish Nationalism, it’s about wanting a democratic, fair and just society which the UK is actually moving further away from.

      Don’t the Unionists ‘get it’? or is it convenient for them to pretend they don’t understand?

    41. David says:

      Maybe UKIP will start a using genetics to filter out unfavourable voters. Those of us who are not genetically programmed in this way will loose our right to vote.

    42. Andy-B says:

      It just goes to show what a blatant liar Mr Sarwar is,of course the SLAB deputy has form, one doesn’t have to cast their mind back to far, to remember, his infamous false document waiving antics during his humiliation, by Nicola Sturgeon.

      Or his failure to vote down the despicable “Bedroom Tax”, choosing instead to give a paid speech, in some far flung corner of the world, if Mr Sarwar represents the union,(and he does)why would any sane person want to remain part of it.

    43. Alba4Eva says:

      Please please please please please please please please please… with Cherries on top, can you grab this Stu… it’s dynamite ammunition.

      Please 😉

    44. stonefree says:

      “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”……pish

      Sarwar and Lamont two horrible creatures,That’s the best I can say

    45. HandandShrimp says:

      Poor Anas, everything he touches…

      Let’s hope that the realisation that the UK political road is taking a rather serious turn to the right and that Labour voters and right thinking Liberals really need to consider what the best option is here. UKIP land or an independent Scotland?

    46. Andy-B says:

      This is quite a handy site you can watch what MEP’s vote for or vote against.

    47. Bugger (the Panda) says:


      Do you honestly think that Anas understands, turning to the left or right:-)

    48. heedtracker says: is one BBC vote NO ligger who likes to get behind Anas all the way and he’s so endearingly modest too.

      At no point whatsoever does the honest and noble BBC take any credit for getting the far right into Scotland and they worked so hard at it all too. Ian Taylor, a credit to his profession, whatever that is.

    49. Les Wilson says:

      When you consider all in all it is what it is, but I do think there is a silver lining for YES and the SNP.
      Fact is in the overall vote whopped UKIP and beat Slab into the bargain. After 7 years in power, it is a brilliant result.

      The other thing is that there will be ammunition aplenty going into Indy. Add to this those who will now see Indy as the only way, many Slab ex supporters and many Lib Dem ex supporters who will say, enough is enough. YES will benefit, I thing the SG are very crafty and will bring in
      new voters on the back of this.

    50. Les Wilson says:

      stonefree says:

      Hi, You are being way to kind to them!

    51. Dr Ew says:

      Gandhi… MLK… Mandela… make way for a new colossus of progressive politics: Ladies and Chentlemen…
      Ms. Choann Lammunt.

    52. JGedd says:

      Yes, it appears that the MSM and the rest of the British establishment have made it clear that their major objective is to stop Scottish independence at all costs. Any tinpot far right organization is welcome to the cause.

      Labour has no shame at all, they’ll get into bed with orcs and goblins if it helps their project which is to keep themselves and their progeny in the style to which they have become accustomed. Charlatans and mountebanks the lot of them.

    53. Thepnr says:


      If a minimum of 50% of Labour voters do not vote Yes in the referendum I’ll eat your dog collar.

    54. GrahamB says:

      Last night’s results and subsequent comment provides great opportunities for the YES campaign.
      Why should Labour be so delighted with a UKIP ‘victory’?
      Tories and UKIP, that’s what you’ll get if you vote NO, not speculation any more but an obvious reality.

    55. Indy_Scot says:

      The only way I can described the whole surreal situation is that Britain is sinking into a pool of fcuked-up-ness, and if Scotland does not jump ship now, we may never get another chance.

    56. caz-m says:


      Don’t forget to tell them about your fundraiser.

      Loads of them haven’t given you a bean yet!

      If you watch and don’t contribute you are very, very naughty

      Good wee reminder for Thistle, X Sticks, I gave a donation last week under “dfmburnside”. It is a worth while cause. It brings all the debates into your living room.

    57. Thepnr says:

      Coburn is a complete halfwit. I for one welcome his election, it’s another car crash waiting to happen. Every time he opens his gob another 10,000 votes jump to Yes.

      I just wish the EBC give him as much air time as possible between now and September. His election was a gift from the gods. Embrace it.

    58. bunter says:

      Bateman sounds the alarm bell on his blog. We must get out now!

      p.s. Coming up with server error msg at the moment, doh!

    59. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      UKIP’s David Coburn is a complete nutcase so I’m going to enjoy every minute of scottish labour and the tories extreme discomfort as he makes his forays into the referendum for the No campaign.

      UKIP only thrive on publicity and Coburn has attention seeking idiot written all over him. Lamont and Davidson better start writing apologies for his behaviour now as they will need them soon enough when he starts shooting his bigoted mouth off again.

      I’m absolutely delighted the Yes campaign will be opposing bigots and racists like him while scottish Labour and the tories are falling over themselves to include his vote alongside theirs and associate their BritNat fervour with his.

    60. wee_monsieur says:

      Odious Anas this morning on GMS referred to ‘the Nationalist parties, UKIP and the SNP’, as if they were the same thing! I think we can expect more of this faeces in the coming weeks and months, unfortunately.

    61. Schrodingers Cat says:

      donated again
      this is a better way than on face book guys

    62. wp says:

      Sarwar, your constituents must be proud of you.
      Don’t know how you sleep at night you hypocrit.

    63. Nana Smith says:

      Clicked on this article from the guardian

      Scottish fast-track EU membership plan not credible, say MPs

      and get this message

      How strange

    64. wp says:

      Hypocrite even

    65. wp says:

      Should just have said arshole.

    66. BuckieBraes says:

      If Coburn is a complete halfwit, does that not make him a wholewit?

      Anyway the opportunity is there – and forgive the mixed metaphors – for the Yes side to get the gloves off, pull out all the stops, go for broke, fight fire with fire; mirror, signal, manoeuvre and pull away…

    67. Horseboy says:

      LIVE NOW on IndyScotRadio online radio:

      Big Indy Debate
      Memorial Hall, Lanark.
      Mon. May 26’14

      Speakers for YES:
      Robin McAlpine, Jimmy Reid Foundation
      Aileen Campbell SNP MSP Clydesdale

      NO Speakers:
      Prof.Adam Tompkins: Public Law Glasgow University
      David Mundell Tory MP Clydesdale!listen-live/c1cu7

    68. heedtracker says:

      SNP under fire as usual from another Bettertogether campaign outfit that’s too modest to boast it was Severin Carrell wot won it.

      It is very weird how the creeps are so determined to not give each other a big pat on their hard right backs. The least Farage can do is thank them all but no.

    69. caz-m says:

      Rev listening to Mundell ON lIVESTREAM in Lanark and someone has commented he is full of



      He warned the audience that there would be no more Britain’s Got Talent if we voted YES. It was met with howls of laughter.

    70. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev, Quacktember an you say Sarcasms cheap on this site lol


    71. heedtracker says:

      You’d at least think the Telegraph would be screaming it was us that beat the evil and cruel separatists but no, not a peep.

      Who knew the ukok media was so modest and unassuming. Maybe old Cockers will break the teamGB modesty embargo among our fine ukok journalists.

    72. Craig says:

      Rev, hope you don’t mind me posting this…there is a new petitition against BBC bias.

      I just signed the petition “Independent Enquiry into BBC bias regards Scottish Independence Referendum” and wanted to ask if you could add your name . Apparently the more support we can get behind it, the better chance we have of succeeding. You can read more and sign the petition here:

    73. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Lanark session really good – getting quite heated.

    74. No no no...Yes says:

      @craig 8:21pm
      Petition duly signed with added comment:

      “The antics of David Dimbleby and John Curtice during their discussion with the Alex Salmond, the democratically elected First Minister of Scotland on the Vote2014 programme on 26 May were the final straw for me.”

    75. Faltdubh says:

      Labour are completely fudged.

      7 years of opposition and still not even close to beating the SNP again. SEVEN years, the SNP have been in power in Scotland and Labour cannot even win an Euro paltry turnout election.

      UKIP surely have to join BT officially now. They have an elected MEP in Scotland.

      As depressing as last night was that UKIP won a seat in Scotland. This could actually be a blessing for us in the yes camp. A lass I know who was completely undecided on indy, she was open minded and reading both sides has now said “Yes! Independence will be the making of Scotland”.

      An other pal of mine, Socialist, ideally likes the thought of Indy etc, but a bit of the ‘too wee’ about him. Has also send me a message today saying “I take it there’s room on that Yes bus of yours”.

      Is UKIP taking 10% of the vote yesterday could well be the wake up call to the undecided/soft no vote.

      We can and will do this!

    76. TJenny says:

      Faltdubh – There’s another bus you and friend can get on. Are you coming along to the Wings night out at The Counting House in Glasgow on Friday (30 May)? Depending on where you and friends live, I think there are still seats on Thepnr’s bus from Dundee for those who want to come along.

    77. Walter Scott says:

      Johanne wants to fight UKIP & the SNP. Doesn’t she know that UKIP are on her side now. Donald Dewar cheered Ian Lang’s victory to win upper nithsdale for the tories who beat the SNP into 2nd place. Can Labour sink any further?

    78. Wee Jonny Campbell says:

      Ha, I’ve just listened to and watched interviews with Brooster Coburn on what policies he’d change. He was asked more than thrice to specify which ones he’d change. This is the genius at work:
      GMS: What would you do for Scotland?
      Brooster: Keep Britti……oops Scottish businesses and Scottish people aware of the crazy goings on in Europe which will affect their businesses and their jobs.
      GMS: Such as?
      Brooster: Well….all these mad sort of rules and regulations and restrictions.
      GMS: What specifically? It’s a bit easy generalisation to say all these mad rules come from Brussels. So what specifically would you rail against?
      Brooster: Well the first thing I’d be against is the rules against small businesses. I mean there are so many restrictions put forward every week.
      GMS: Well say specifically.
      Brooster: Oh specifically………goodness gracious…….em….just come off the top of my head…. I can’t think. There’s so many……… The Health & Safety regulations they come up with every week more crazy things.
      GMS: Well say specifically then.
      Brooster: Emm…. It’s early in the morning. I haven’t had any sleep.

      On another he said “We’re not gona be the same. We’re gona be different. People are worried about these environmental things like windmills, they don’t work and they put prices up for poor people”.

      That my friends is why we should welcome oor new Brooster with open arms and get him on telly and radio as much as poss. Alex Salmond he is not. . (Took me forkin ages to write that)

    79. Faltdubh says:

      TJenny, I’d love to and thank you, but I’m off to Sweden until mid July.

      I hope to attend some fun in the summer hopefully in the Angus, Fundee areas.

    80. Thepnr says:


      I agree, this is something that will shift many over to the Yes side. Just watch the TV over the next few months and it will be as a portal into the future.

      The future we face as an Independent country electing our own representatives. Or the horror of TORY/UKIP until 20202 and beyond.

      No sane Scot will vote for that.

      I’m also hoping England win the World Cup!

      Let’s take this hit square on the chin and move on, in many ways it could prove to be a positive. I really couldn’t give two hoots about the EU election results.

      There is only one which counts in my heart and yours I’m sure, this sign of a potential future much surely make you more determined? It does me.

    81. scottish_skier says:

      Brian Taylor impressively says what we all know:

      This [SNP not taking the last seat but UKIP getting it] provoked a paradoxical response from supporters of the Union in other parties. They dislike UKIP. They loathe UKIP. At a UK level, UKIP represent an intrinsic challenge to their votes.

      But, in Scotland, such supporters of the Union would – on balance, just, all things considered – prefer UKIP to take a seat if the alternative is a discernible SNP advance.

      Teeth clenched, they say that a UKIP victory – just, perhaps, maybe – suggests that Scotland is not so distinctive from England, politically, as has been suggested.

      Nuts. And that shall be their downfall.

    82. cynicalHighlander says:


      A number of years ago a petition was set up with 38degrees and it was at the top of their consideration for weeks and then they dropped it with weasel words. Never signed one of their petitions again.

    83. Thepnr says:

      Think i just heard ronnie there on the Lanark vid. getting real heated. I’m luvvin it.

    84. bobdog says:

      What JoLa did something today? I mean politically , thought she did the washing and ironing between Friday and Wednesday , just appearing at FMQ’s on Thursday to read out the scripted Questions . Don’t hear about her doing anything else like other party leaders, ah but there again Edd Milliband is the real leader of Scottish labour

    85. Schrodingers Cat says:

      brillaint debate streamed by independence live, best yet
      well done guys

    86. cirsium says:

      proUK…we must continue to fight nationalism

      that’s a beauty, Mr Sarwar. It definitely deserves a place alongside the Great Sayings of Iain Gray, Willie Rennie et al.

    87. gerry parker says:

      I thin k no got a thrashing in Lanark.
      Good yes team, poor BT’s

    88. Tam Jardine says:

      Tactically I agree with you Thepnr – it probably is a gift to have this stupid racist dickhead as mep as a wake up call (and on the BT side).

      Over the course of the day I have become less angry and more attuned to how repellent most no voters will find their new bedfellows and how it will be sewing seeds of doubt in all but the hardcore.

      It just royally fucks me off that a guy who in any rational world would be a complete nonentity, ignored and tolerated is suddenly in such an important job siphoning huge sums of money from the system to help put more cretins like him in positions of power over the rest of us.

      I struggle to think of a single person I know who would be a worse representative of our country.

    89. Smithie says:

      GGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. i knew i should not have clicked on to any debate involving Mundell
      However after a bout of shouting at my computer i have survived ( Just)

      As an afterthought, here’s a question i would ask.

      What would Scotland’s share be of 7 new Subs,2 Aircraft Carriers, 40 new planes (Just to keep one carrier operational non stop per year according to a military expert), one fast train from London to Manchester, Londons cross rail,etc,etc, be, and also what would be the interest be on that loan alone???.

      Why can’t the people of Scotland see why the Westminster way of working is so outdated

    90. X_Sticks says:

      caz-m says:

      “Good wee reminder for Thistle, X Sticks”

      I don’t even get commission 🙂

      And the Britshit was mine, but you’re welcome to use it 😉

    91. Schrodingers Cat says:

      There is only one which counts in my heart and yours I’m sure, this sign of a potential future much surely make you more determined? It does me.

      inspirational stuff, well said thepnr

    92. John H. says:

      My wife saw Lamont in Glasgow city centre one day last week.When she realised that someone had recognised her, she lowered her eyes and looked away.Maybe she’s got a conscience after all, though I doubt it.

    93. Thepnr says:

      Sorry X_Sticks but cyberfart was best LOL

    94. goldenayr says:

      Just back in.

      What’s this about the debate on livestream?

      Did wee diddy davy mundell make more of an arse of himself than usual?

      His Uncle David and Aunty Margaret are already embarrassed enough that he’s a Tory MP.

    95. msean says:

      I watched that debate as well,got to say the guy ranting from the top tier was inaudible because of his loudness.

    96. Schrodingers Cat says:

      not sure, but got the impression that the guy streaming the vid from the ipad was the same guy getting threatened to be ejected. i dont think mundell et all warmed to him either
      well done that man

      he was correct about the oil revenue figures though, they dropped because of poor legislation from osborne, but more due to the tax breaks offered by westminster to the huge amount of investment in the north sea, bt were at it,

    97. caz-m says:

      You forget how stupid Sarwar really is until he says something.

    98. call me dave says:

      Mr Bateman back on line 2 minutes ago, for those interested.

      Live stream tonight was patchy but good stuff, especially when NO turns up. Got a bit heated too.
      The chairs counting was dodgy but I think it was given as

      DK’s 5% ish.
      NO’s 35% ish.
      YES 55% ish.

    99. X_Sticks says:

      Thepnr says:

      “Sorry X_Sticks but cyberfart was best LOL”

      Can’t but agree with that Thepnr 😉

    100. Schrodingers Cat says:

      some of the debates are so well rehearsed it amazes me that people dont question the points raised by bt
      mundells chum went on at length about the uncertainty of scotlands position in the eu?
      no one thought to ask why cameron had refused the eus offer to clarify the position?

    101. call me dave says:


      Labour die hard likening SNP to Ukip but stream broke up never heard the ending of his rant.

    102. Croompenstein says:

      @John H – My wife saw Lamont in Glasgow city centre one day last week.When she realised that someone had recognised her, she lowered her eyes and looked away

      LOL that’s the best laugh I’ve had today, picturing slidy een shufflin away and also the fact that one person in Glasgow city centre recognised her.. 😀

    103. Murray McCallum says:

      I prefer when Yes supporters ask short to-the-point questions. More difficult for speaker to twist and wriggle out of. Also better for those watching.

      I actually didn’t mind Tomkins too much. It was all this is very complicated, no precedents, too long, needs negotiations, blah blah. No big hits.

    104. Thepnr says:

      @BuckieBraes says:

      If Coburn is a complete halfwit, does that not make him a wholewit?

      Hmmm, I see your point.

      complete halfwit = wholewit or

      complete halfwit = dumb mother fuckin fat bastard!

      I’ll need to think about that before giving a difinitive answer.

    105. Dcanmore says:

      Slightly depressed after looking at my local newspaper’s (in Scotland) facebook page comments after the vote count for the region was published. Some people disgusted at the low turnout (fair enough), a couple of comments astonished that people still vote conservative (okay). But two guys I vaguely know (both Rangers supporters) one advocating BNP and the other UKIP with a third saying: “Let’s hope the turn out for the referendum is higher! Voter apathy will let the lunatic SNP Herr Salmond and his henchmen sneak in god forbid!”

      Anyway a higher turnout for the referendum will probably have the opposite effect 🙂

    106. stonefaction says:


      I’d rather England reach the World Cup final but ultimately lose on penalties. Would be just as unbearable(yet helpful) on the hype-to-the-heavens front but as they haven’t shut up about the last time yet, I’d rather they didn’t win it again in my lifetime.

    107. Nana Smith says:

      Livestream very patchy but some good points got across.

      Great article on why we must secure a YES

    108. bookie from hell says:

      UKIP or FASCIST game

    109. caz-m says:

      Darling introducing Coburn to hi fellow members down at Better Together HQ.

      “And now I’d like everyone to give a big round of applause to our newest member, Mr David Coburn ladies and gentlemen”.

      “FFS”!, “WTF”!, Jesus F*ck!

    110. Schrodingers Cat says:

      That my friends is why we should welcome oor new Brooster with open arms and get him on telly and radio as much as poss. Alex Salmond he is not. . (Took me forkin ages to write that

      totally agree
      breewster cobun is the new face of bt, whether they want it or not

    111. Let’s keep things in perspective shall we?

      My take on this circus of a European election.

      The main event is much more interesting.

    112. Schrodingers Cat says:

      brewster cobun is a gift
      lets use it

    113. msean says:

      lol,UKIP nothing like SNP ffs. Not in a month of sundays lol.Deluded.

    114. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Thepnr says:
      26 May, 2014 at 9:54 pm@BuckieBraes says:

      If Coburn is a complete halfwit, does that not make him a wholewit?

      Hmmm, I see your point.

      complete halfwit = wholewit or

      complete halfwit = dumb mother fuckin fat bastard!

      I’ll need to think about that before giving a difinitive answer.

      keep it clean thepnr, otherwise your comments will be whats discussed in the newspapers when they retweet the coments from here,
      let brooster coburn(bt) hang himself, he is more than capable after all. i think labour bbc scotland will go after him, what we need to do is make sure he is the new face of bt, can anyone start knocking up bt posters with him on the front?

    115. Schrodingers Cat says:

      lightening, thunder, lashing rain tonight,
      its as if
      the deil’s got somthing on his mind tonight

    116. caz-m says:

      Did anyone else here Coburn on STV news at 6pm accuse Alex Salmond of acting like Robert Mugabe. This was to do with the new Land Reform recommendations for Scotland.

      He talks utter *Britshit. Darling and McDougall need to tell us when Coburn is joining their gang.

      (*Britshit, X_Sticks word)

    117. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The Lanark livestream was frustrating, but good to hear/see, albeit in unpredictable chunks.

      It would be instructive to see Mundell’s opening remarks isolated – if there’s any single aspect of the BTUKOK campaign which might strike the truly objective viewer, I’d guess that it might be just how amateurish and unprepared the No speakers are. Mundell’s performance was toe-curlingly dire.

      To appear before a large audience and be so horribly unprepared, with no coherent argument, is gravely insulting to the organisers, the opponents, and everyone watching. People are busy – they don’t lightly give up a whole evening to be patronised by a so-called professional public servant who sounds as though he’s talking to himself while having a bath.

      These people have had two years to develop and hone their arguments. Two full years to construct even ONE convincing reason why Scotland shouldn’t become independent. They’ve utterly failed in every imaginable way, and the fact that they even appear at such events has become a serious embarrassment to all concerned.

      Next up via livestream will be Ian Davidson versus Richie Venton (among others) from Cardonald College on Wednesday. Here’s hoping the connection is better, because that will be one to savour.

    118. goldenayr says:

      Not done this in a long time but turned to Fox News for something different.

      You know what?

      Absolutely nothing different about the format between them and the beeb.

      Murdoch should be tried for misrepresentation or malicious mischief.

      I’d go for mal mis,10yrs and sequestration of all assets and persons responsible.

    119. Thepnr says:


      I’ve thought it through carefully and…

      Dumb mother fuckin fat bastard it is.

      No I won’t apologise this is a grown ups site and it’s time you grew a pair. Get in there with the head down, spread the word, tell everyone you know that Yes is coming.

      Fuck UKIP or they’ll fuck you.

      Your choice and no point being Mr Nice Guy. I’m as pissed as anyone else at this result. But what to do?

      Use it too our advantage is what to do, tell the ignorant what UKIP stand for and why we need to rid ourselves of their likes. Yeah, grow a pair for your own sake as well as our countries.

    120. Paula Rose says:

      I do hope Nobburn will be asked if he has plans to work with Vote No Borders.

    121. Grouse Beater says:

      brewster cobun is a gift

      Rooster Cogburn?

      The one we have has a patch over both eyes!

    122. goldenayr says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Mundell was embarrassed because the rubber ducky in the bath always agrees.

      He’s never had to put the arguments to real voters.

      Hmmm..just thought,my fart bubbles in the bath make more sense.

    123. john king says:

      Coburn will henceforth be known as
      Amaufy as in DavidAmaufytiredCoburn

    124. geeo says:

      Think i am imagining stuff now…

      Alan Little on BBC reporting from Edinburgh talking about how UKIP only got 10% as opposed to 30% everywhere else showing Scotland is different politically from the rest of the Uk (not exact quote) and that SNP will use the results to get folk to vote Yes in referendum.

    125. Schrodingers Cat says:



    126. goldenayr says:


      That’ll be Allan Little going for reconditioning then.

    127. Croompenstein says:

      Hold the front page – balanced and truthful report from BBC shocker. Allan Little reporting from Edinburgh telling it like it is ukip came 4th 10% of vote and England ukip 1st 30% Scotland’s result looking more like Germany than England and Wales. If you want Scotland to stay in EU then you might want to think about voting for independence in September..picks self back up…

    128. JPJ2 says:


      Alan Little usual reports the situation in a straightforward unbiased way-no Glen Campbell him

    129. X_Sticks says:

      goldenayr says:

      “my fart bubbles in the bath make more sense.”

      That would be a cyberfart then?


      Saw that too. Got the feeling that some of the media are beginning to regret what they have done.

    130. caz-m says:


      Mundell was giving it some good old fashioned Project Fear.
      Those replies from him were about two years old and he forgets that people have moved on and just laugh at that mince now.

    131. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Paula Rose says:
      26 May, 2014 at 10:23 pmI do hope Nobburn will be asked if he has plans to work with Vote No Borders
      photoshop will create the link in social media with coburn and nob orders and bt whether they want it or not

    132. goldenayr says:



    133. JPJ2 says:

      We don’t see many reports from Alan Little-I think we can all work out why.

      He provided the unvarnished truth without the usual unionist spin-it is quite a shock to see that, and I think he very cleverly cannot be criticised for the facts he uses are wholly accurate.

      I hope he survives at the BBC to keep reporting.

    134. GrahamB says:

      Just caught the tail end of Alan Little on the London News. He seemed to be giving a reasonable resumé and emphasised that Scotland is now more different from the UK. He was followed by Nick Robinson who last night seemed over gleeful at every good result by UKIP but I didn’t hear what he was saying this time as I’m afraid I drowned out whatever gems he came out with by my own petulant outbursts.

    135. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Thepnr says:
      26 May, 2014 at 10:20 pm@BuckieBraes

      did buckie take the flak intended for me?

      this is an adult site, but so is the daily mail
      winning means being clever, not angry

      ps, im very angry too

    136. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Looking forward to seeing the BTUKOKERS queuing up to have their photie taken with Scotland’s very first democratically elected UKIP member.

      Danny Alexander wasn’t shy about grinning like a Cheshire cat in an Inverness food bank, and he could sure do with a photogenic distraction right now..

      Go on Oor Danny! You and Mr Cockburn are ‘Better Together’, right?

    137. Paula Rose says:

      Be careful with the burn gags boys (I know – but mine was a spelling mistake, honest!)

    138. Graeme Doig says:

      Craig 8.21

      Cheers for the link. Signed

    139. geeo says:

      Regards my post on Alan Little.

      I was not having a pop at the man himself, it was more the shock of anyone from the “BeeB” being balanced.
      Disciplinary action pending for him then ?

    140. goldenayr says:

      Braking News

      After Sundays shattering lurch to the right,and the collapse of the Lib Dem vote,Nick Clegg has ordered his junior coalition cabinet members to swap allegiance to UKIP.Asked why he has taken this huge decision he replied.

      “Well latching onto any party that seems to be in control has worked for me so far.So I reckon that my good mate Nige might be forthcoming if I give him a say in Westminster.”

      Several journalists shot themselves and the rest had an orgasm.

    141. Parky says:

      Anas Sarwar on SNP vs UKIP:

      “It is time for the moderate majority of Scots to assert themselves, as we believe they will on September 18 in standing up to these dual forces.”

      …so how does on ‘stand up’ to these ‘dual forces’ when one is Yes and one is No? Is Mr.Sarwar asking the ‘moderate majority’ to not vote?

    142. Thepnr says:

      @Schrodingers Cat

      Yeah, sorry apologies for the outburst. I’ll turn my anger towards winning a Yes vote. It wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular, just everyone in general.

      We can all do a bit more and will need to. We will win, but we all know how close it will be. For this reason never miss an opportunity to persuade someone or even just make them doubt the Union cause.

      Not much time left, so please don’t waste a single second.

    143. James123 says:

      GO ALAN LITTLE! The one voice of sanity at the BBC.

    144. Graeme Doig says:

      Well done Wee Jonny Campbell.
      Your transcript was worth reading. Heard him on GMS this morning. I’m delighted this waste of space was given air time. Sums up the knuckle dragging right wing and their supporters. BTs latest recruit playing right into our hands

    145. msean says:

      You mean,he agrees with Nige?

    146. goldenayr says:

      Neil Hamilton on Newsnight says..

      “485 million EU citizens are free to come here and Westminster can’t do anything about it.”


      The whole of Europe thinks his shitty little bit of England is so great the whole world wants to live there?

      You can’t even brush your teeth with tap water there!

      Talk about being a victim of their own propaganda.

    147. CameronB Brodie says:

      Stalin and Hitler were both brought to power by a ‘liberal’ western banking elite, with the collective result of undermining the ‘value’ ascribed to humanity.

      “That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.” – Aldous Huxley

    148. Les Wilson says:

      Does anyone think that Coburn winning could have been a combination of votes tactically and deliberately done by the Unionist side.

      Because when you think of him in the European Parliament, causing bitterness and being very much disliked, it would suit the Unionist cause for him to make the Scottish team unpopular.Could it have been engineered for him to win?
      Just ranting, I think!

    149. Peter says:

      Interesting that the cybershits are spamming every comment thread with the same bilge.

      Combined toryukip vote was almost the same as the SNP so Scotland is really right wing.

      Ignoring the Greens or labour (at least their voters in Scotland)even what’s left of the libdems in their propaganda.

      Beyond pathetic.

    150. goldenayr says:


      Best to stay away lest you get banned for pointing out the holes in their argument.

      I plan to give them shit tomorrow with all the evidence I’ve been gathering today.

    151. John grant says:

      Well three of us were out leafleting in Hamilton the night in a blind fucking rage the sweat was pishin aff us , got through bags o them lol then we had good laugh at hibs well done the comicals

    152. Tam Jardine says:

      The delight of the BT cabal at UKIP getting a seat at the expense of Tasmina (or Maggie Chapman) is a wee reminder of how their values have been completely subordinated to the one task of stopping a Yes vote. There is a kind of sickness in it. I suppose they are scared of their own futures.

      I am starting to take some joy in the result. Combined yes vote parties plus proportion of lab, ukip and con yessers coupled with the fact high turnout favours Yes – we are surely over the line.

      Cut this with some commonwealth games, a sprinkling of engurland getting to the business end of Rio and a big push by Yes – you have a victory.

      The immigrant angle is a winner – how many people are either from immigrant stock or have families who would be forcibly repatriated if Rooster and his ilk had their way.

      Read a bit of the dismal heil today: all the talk is of coalition between ukip and con to stop labour winning. What a completely, fully fucked up rag.

      Let’s leave this media in our wake.

      Ian Brotherhood

      What time does this kick off Friday?

    153. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tam Jardine –

      Anytime after six-ish, but some of us will be there before then. Should be busiest between 8-10.

      No fixed part of the pub, just look out for attractive, intelligent-looking punters wearing ‘Yes’ paraphernalia.

      Hope you make it mister – it’s gonny be a big yin, so bring yer pals. And if it’s pish? We can all go somewhere else…

    154. Schrodingers Cat says:

      deat mr thepnr
      we are on the same side
      i am out of the country, but would have loved to come onto your coach down for the wos meeting in glasgow
      but needs must
      some of the figures mentioned this evening by mundell, about the oil industry, i am very close to, so unlike yourself, anonymity is neccessary. i wish it were otherwise
      i have watched your bus campaign with interest
      post your own email adress below or on subsequent threads, ill pick it up. get yourself a paypal account.
      i hereby promise to cover any losses you sustain on this jolly, on the understanding that you continue to organise more coaches
      i dont think i can say fairer that that
      as i said
      we are on the same side
      as ever
      schrodingers cat

    155. Tam Jardine says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Aye – should be there.

    156. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Thepnr says:
      26 May, 2014 at 10:50 pm@Schrodingers Cat

      Yeah, sorry apologies for the outburst. I’ll turn my anger towards winning a Yes vote. It wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular, just everyone in general.

      We can all do a bit more and will need to. We will win, but we all know how close it will be. For this reason never miss an opportunity to persuade someone or even just make them doubt the Union cause.

      Not much time left, so please don’t waste a single second.

      my last comment and this crossed in the ethernet
      i can assure you thepnr, every minute spent away from the yes camp is time lost. i wish it were otherwise, good luck on your coach journey

    157. Schrodingers Cat says:

      btw the pnr
      my offer was deadly serious

    158. Paula Rose says:

      Oh goody – Schrodingers Cat and Thepnr, costs covered I don’t need to worry about getting a chill, always worry about wearing just a mink coat.

    159. Thepnr says:

      @Schrodingers Cat

      I know, and I appreiate it very much. You are no different from me and are in fact the reason I believe we can win.


    160. X_Sticks says:

      @John grant

      Aye John, we all need to turn the anger to action. If we do we will win this.

    161. Schrodingers Cat says:

      Paula Rose says:
      26 May, 2014 at 11:32 pmOh goody – Schrodingers Cat and Thepnr, costs covered I don’t need to worry about getting a chill, always worry about wearing just a mink coat.

      lol, dont forget yer knickers hen

    162. Schrodingers Cat says:

      the title of this thread
      Friends and enemies
      very apt

    163. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Tam Jardine –

      Top man. You have been added to ‘the list’.


      Look forward to seeing you, and all yer mates. Bring them all!

    164. Tam Jardine says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Thanks. But I’m one of these Yes wandering samurai .

      All my mates are Yes already but not zealots like me. They are just going to vote for it. It’s a privileged position to be in.

      You’ve got a couple of bairns like me. It ramps it up. If the fucking self – harmers win the day I will NEVER forgive .

      And Wear your badge every day, all day.

      Will be a pleasure to meet you Ian

    165. Taranaich says:

      I’m getting fair fed up with those who still tout the old “Tartan Tories” line with the SNP. Seriously, Labour AND the Lib Dems have both betrayed us all, while if anything SNP have gone MORE to the left than before. But I guess if Johann Lamont says that a pro-EU, pro-immigration, pro-welfare, pro-education, pro-renewables, anti-nuclear, anti-sectarian, anti-Westminster party is the same as an anti-EU, anti-immigration, anti-welfare, anti-education, anti-renewables, pro-nuclear, pro-sectarian, pro-Westminster party…

      Let’s hope that the realisation that the UK political road is taking a rather serious turn to the right and that Labour voters and right thinking Liberals really need to consider what the best option is here. UKIP land or an independent Scotland?

      At the Greenock debate, Anas said the Labour Party hasn’t changed in its entire history.

    166. john king says:

      “just look out for attractive, intelligent-looking punters wearing ‘Yes’ paraphernalia.”

      Well thanks very much chief yer no bad lookin yersel if I may say.

      “lol, dont forget yer knickers hen”

      Snort 🙂

      “At the Greenock debate, Anas said the Labour Party hasn’t changed in its entire history.”

      How old is he?

    167. Ken500 says:

      Curtice is being paid by BT

      BT/Darling is giving Curtice Uni Dept £Millions in Grants/Public monies for the Polling operations. To poll against the people (the Scottish taxpayers funding the Grants disproportionately).

      The Piper calls the tune.

      Alex & Co can’t do everything. The non voters have to get off their bums and vote.

      How can a vote of 140,00 be representative of 5.5million people. It’s a farce. The EU should change it’s voting system. Maybe it will be the catalyst for a higher YES vote. Some good may come out of it. ‘every drop of rain that falls makes flowers grow’. Scotland will bloom and boom.

    168. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but I am a little anxious about Ronnie and Conan.
      I have even visited the appalling article on the DT to search for Conan but no sign.
      And I always expect Ronnie to be here.
      Anyone know?

    169. X_Sticks says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Bugger (the Panda) tracked Conan down and he’s alive and kicking. There’s info on the Off Topic.

      Ronnie is also good, he’s been involved with Gerry Parker aranging the Yes in the Park event and the Wings stall there.

    170. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks X_sticks – that’s good to know!

    171. Betty Boop says:

      Kevan Cooper, 4.36pm, 26/7/14

      That clip of Coburn just proved further that UKIP is a “one man party”.

      He hasn’t a clue. Unfortunately, many voters are in a similar situation.

    172. The poll results are confusing because the tory vote in 2011 compares, almost vote for vote with Sunday`s E.U.results.

      When tories did not vote ukip –who voted for ukip when they got 140,534 votes in Scotland.?

      libdem`s are clearly pro-e.u., but libdem`s lost more than any other political party.


      Scot`s labour got 5.11 per cent more. (scary).Mibbeland.

      Ludicrously, scot`s tories have voted to disenfranchise themselves from any representation at westminster via “Boundary Change Legislation” that BamCam promises to enact after the 2015 westminster elections.

      They don`t want Freedom – and vote to bar themselves from westminster where the purse will be held.

      To gain 20x new seats in england.

      Dementia testing must be made compulsary for scot`s tories.

    173. Betty Boop says:

      @James123, 1051pm, 26/5/14

      GO ALAN LITTLE! The one voice of sanity at the BBC.

      I hope he isn’t handed his P45.

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