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A clear choice

Posted on May 26, 2014 by

ukipok1

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    1. 26 05 14 11:02

      A clear choice | Scottish Independence News

    137 to “A clear choice”

    1. gordoz says:

      Sickening but very true !

    2. Tattie-bogle says:

      Funny how it’s not the UK Separation Party

    3. galamcennalath says:

      Yup. There will definitely be some combination of UKIP and Tory in 2015. Scotland will be governed by them if we don’t vote YES.

      Wisdom says stay positive and don’t campaign negatively. However, that is one negative reality we need to push from now until September … NO = UKIP+Tory

    4. heedtracker says:

      UKIP/BBC triumph for “blame the immigrant” here with their vote ukok noborder border, at Dover. Very weird message from bettertogether.com

      http://www.votenoborders.co.uk/?gclid=COH_mZWUyb4CFa-WtAodqEEAkw

    5. galamcennalath says:

      Tattie-bogle says:
      Funny how it’s not the UK Separation Party

      No, it would be UK SeparatIST Party 😉

    6. Alfresco Dent says:

      If Scotland still votes No then we do not deserve to be a country. The writing is on the wall. In my opinion this is a great result for Yes.

    7. Jason F says:

      Time, perhaps, for less focus on the No campaign and more on pushing the Yes message to Labour and Lib Dem voters (and even reasonable Tories) and those that don’t vote. Media output and the No campaign should continue to be debunked, but it shouldn’t distract people. Salmond was always right that a positive campaign is what can win.

    8. TheGreatBaldo says:

      Of course now according to assorted Unionists after last night there is no difference in Political culture between Scotland & rUK.

      If that is true then BT should be inviting UKIP into the fold rather than snubbing them.

    9. Nation Libre says:

      This may just be the wake up call that the people of Scotland need. 56% of the UK has just voted Tory or Tory+

    10. bookie from hell says:

      Scotland gets what it voted for,that’s the rules

      10% UKIP

      hope media show what UKIP beleive in

      4 years of it

      #sick

    11. Breastplate says:

      Recent events will no doubt focus minds and I believe the thought of a Tory UKIP coalition for the next government will send quite a few votes in the Yes direction.

    12. Taranaich says:

      Jesus wept. BT go on and on about how “YeSNP” never give us concrete answers or give us the “real” costs of independence, while the party with the most votes in the EU elections doesn’t even have a manifesto.

      If BT don’t accept UKIP’s offer of inclusion now, then that must be the final nail in the “Better Together” coffin. Perhaps then Vote No Borders will become the de facto No campaign after BT falls apart – in truth, I’ve started to wonder if that’s the real reason for its late appearance.

    13. Lorraine says:

      You lot have just had a foretaste of what September 19 is GOING to feel like for you.

    14. goldenayr says:

      Made a complaint to the beeb last night.

      “David Dimbelby is an arse.”

      That was it.

      Be interesting to see if they agree with me.

      Doubt it right enough.

    15. Nana Smith says:

      Horrible result,who the hell voted for ukip. As I said last night blame the media. Last evenings coverage from Taylor,Curtice and the other unionists was plain enough for us all to see the sheer spite and fury against AS and Scotland.

      http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9243-lib-dems-lose-sole-scottish-eu-seat-as-ukip-secures-first-scottish-mep

    16. bookie from hell says:

      Lorraine says:
      26 May, 2014 at 9:48 am
      You lot have just had a foretaste of what September 19 is GOING to feel like for you.

      good post,could be worse,will have full bottle of southern comfort at side

    17. Breeks says:

      So the best of both worlds is representation by David Coburn? Feel dirty for some reason. Need to take a shower.

    18. goldenayr says:

      Lorraine

      Eh?

      What it tells me is that there are only 3% going to vote no.

      Take your bile elsewhere.

    19. Tattie-bogle says:

      you lot “nice”

    20. Murray McCallum says:

      UKIP are now the strongest political force among the better together alliance.

      Anyone saying Scotland and rUK have the same political landscape does not understand the concept of percentages. Just as well they are not involved in handing out Olympic medals – the person coming 4th would get a gold.

      Labour people in Scotland still intending to vote No – simply beyond me.

    21. JLT says:

      Jeez …Call Kaye …would you listen to the nonsense as to why folk voted for UKIP!

      Kaye …‘Why is Scotland voting UKIP? …WE AREN’T, FOR F***’S SAKE!!!! THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF SCOTLAND WILL NEVER VOTE FOR UKIP. UKIP ONLY GOT AROUND 140,000 OUT OF 5.3 MILLION PEOPLE !!!!!!

      One guy believes Scotland has it all anyway, so why hand it all over to Brussels (and we don’t hand it to London!)

      One guy was a Labour supporter who is so fed up that he voted UKIP (which makes you wonder. How the **** does a Labour man vote for a Far-Right Wing Party? Or does it just show that Labour are truly right wing anyway, that the guy can’t differentiate between them?)

      Another voted UKIP because he sick of the Poles taking jobs. (I work with 2 Poles. They get paid the exact same as the Scots. They are NOT cheap labour, and they are both good at their jobs. We have Scots in this country who would be screaming in rage if you told them they must work. There is a small percentage in Scotland who don’t want to work …ever! That’s not the fault of the Poles!)

      Will give Kaye her due here. She pulled on an official spokesman for David Coburn (Scot UKIP) and asked him what UKIP will do for Scotland. Jeez …the guy went to bits. He seriously struggled to answer the question. He had nothing. It was like asking a German MEP as to how he could help Portugal in Europe. Same for UKIP. An all-out English party helping the people of Scotland in their affairs. In the end, Kaye had to help him with his policies …JESUS WEPT !!! Who seriously voted for this mob????

      She bought on Otto, the UKIP rep for Edinburgh. Once again. Still no policies, and again pointed out, that they don’t know what they are going to do for Scotland. That’s 2 spokesman for UKIP Scotland who can’t answer the basic question …what would UKIP do for Scotland?

      The only reason UKIP got in, was because the vote came from disenfranchised Tory / Labour / Lib supporters. Nothing changed in the sense to the Referendum. Some of the 30% die-hard ‘No’s decided to ditch Labour and Liberal and voted for UKIP. This is not a seismic shift in attitudes as BBC Scotland are trying to paint it. It’s just a case of the Scottish Tories, Labour and Libs getting their act together and start helping Scotland instead of helping London.

    22. Tattie-bogle says:

      David Coburn Saviour of the Highlands those damn Pashtun Warriors they are everywhere.

    23. Jimmy Want Ball says:

      Me likes, me is a fwend

    24. Let’s not get too down about things. In spite of the saturation coverage given to UKIP in the run-up to the Euro and English/Welsh council elections, they have received barely one-tenth of the votes of those electors in Scotland who could be bothered to drag themselves to the polling stations.

      To my mind, it’s likely that anyone enthusiastic about voting for UKIP probably made the effort to do so; consequently, the total number of votes they garnered in Scotland probably constitutes just about as many as they are likely to get in any election which results in a higher turn-out.

      So, Scotland 10% UKIP and England/Wales 30% UKIP in no way invalidates the argument that there is a significantly different political and social culture in Scotland as compared to that south of the border.

      Surely, this must now become the main thrust of Yes Scotland’s campaign.

      (Unfortunately, my fear is that fifty years down the road an independent Scotland will be a small plutocracy parked on top of a large plutocracy. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the people of Scotland are much, if any, more virtuous or egalitarian than any other group of people.)

    25. Barbara Gribbon says:

      Took me a while to think about, but is it possible a group who couldn’t bring itself to vote either SNP or Labour has overlap with a group that can’t see itself voting yes or no, and could now move to no if they see things going their way electorally

    26. caz-m says:

      Even although David Coburn is openly gay, he is not going down well with other members of the gay community.

      The gay newspaper “Pink News” have run a story on him and the comments that are coming in are far from positive.

      http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/26/openly-gay-ukip-mep-elected-in-scotland/

    27. Paul says:

      If the Scottish people are so lazy that they can’t be bothered to look into just what UKIP actually stands for or vote no because of unionist lies then hell mend them.
      The first person that votes no but then moans about the state of things later will get a punch on the nose.

    28. Robert Louis says:

      Jason F,

      Totally with you. We have a great message backed up with hard facts, so we need to work even harder to get the message out, so we win.

      We should not worry overly about the lies from NOB orders and better together. We simply give them enough rope to hang themselves. All these lies (for that is exactly what they are) will come back on them, like a bad curry, before referendum day.

      Let’s keep getting the positive independence message out, that Scotland can do so much better, with a written constitution, and with a sovereign Government elected IN Scotland FOR Scotland, with Scottish jobs, welfare, culture, sport and economy as their number 1 priority every single day.

    29. JLT says:

      Arrgh! Saying Kaye …it’s Louise. At times, both Kaye and Louise sound the same.

    30. heedtracker says:

      @ Lorraine says:
      26 May, 2014 at 9:48 am
      “You lot have just had a foretaste of what September 19 is GOING to feel like for you.”

      No this is very different Lorraine. This is protofascism in action, peddled by BBC in Scotland mass coverage of Farage/UKIP. BBC think they are using Farage to stop democracy in Scotland getting going in Sept but they’ve kicked off a whole new world of shit facing a lot of people in Scotland.

      “Get the foreigner, win the union” wont hold with that many voters on the 18th Sept.

    31. gordoz says:

      Lorraine says:

      ‘You lot have just had a foretaste of what September 19 is GOING to feel like for you’

      Victory against UKOK .. Yaaaayyy !!!

      cheers

      Lorraine (We know thats what you meant – Doh !)

    32. Flower of Scotland says:

      I absolutely blame the BBC for Farage receiving so many votes. They gave him more airtime than any other leader! I am very ashamed of Scots that voted for UKIP, but when you only read the Daily Record or watch BBC you get brainwashed!

      However the SNP did win in Scotland with a clear majority! Well done! Let’s see the BBC turn this result of success into a blow for Alex Salmond after the results are confirmed!

      Farage is disgusting but so are the BBC!

    33. Clootie says:

      Is the dark room free. I need to go and lie down 🙁
      The fact that people voted UKIP in Scotland to any extent is just sad.

      I say this outwith the context of the referendum debate.

    34. Sinky says:

      An appropriate footballing analogy for the BBC’s massive coverage of UKIP compared to SNP is like giving Cowdenbeath and Donald Findlay four times as much TV exposure as Celtic.

    35. caz-m says:

      I wonder how many times the name “UKIP” has been spoken by a BBC Employee in the last year. It has to be many hundreds of thousands of times.

      BBC Scotland even start some of their news bulletins with, “UKIP have..”

      The BBC and BBC Scotland have created this Party, who have NO policies what so ever.

      Let’s see if they are allowed into the UK Better Together Club.

    36. Indy_Scot says:

      Scottish Labour voters now need to realise that a ‘no’ vote in September will mean another five years of Tory rule in Scotland, along with the billions in cuts to the welfare system that are still to come under the Tories.

    37. Macart says:

      @ Clootie

      Is the dark room free.

      Plenty of room in here as usual. Just keep the noise down. 🙂

    38. Robert Kerr says:

      UKIP is an illegitimate child of the BBC.

      Not just here in Scotland but also in England.

      I really hope they are pleased with themselves.

    39. Dan Huil says:

      The consequences of a reactionary No vote are now laid bare for all to see.

      No excuses: Vote Yes.

    40. joe kane says:

      It’s going to be fun watching the contortions and tortured formulations the Better Together mob deploy in order to distance themselves from a UK-wide party that came first in the European Parliamentary elections and which resulted in the Tories coming third in a UK election for the first ever time in its history.

      Speaking of which, I see a few hilarious BT contortionists have already turned up on the always excellent WOS Twitter account feed.

    41. goldenayr says:

      Just bben over to the beeb news site,first thing I see is this.

      Vote 2014 Europe: Great Britain
      Party Votes % MEPs
      ukip Votes Percentage 27.50 +10.99 MEPs 23 MEPs +/- +10
      lab Votes Percentage 25.40 +9.67 MEPs 18 MEPs +/- +7
      con Votes Percentage 23.94 -3.80 MEPs 18 MEPs +/- -7
      grn Votes Percentage 7.87 -0.75 MEPs 3 MEPs +/- +1
      ld Votes Percentage 6.87 -6.88 MEPs 1 MEPs +/- -9
      pc Votes Percentage 0.71 -0.13 MEPs 1 MEPs +/- 0
      snp Votes Percentage 2.44 0.34 MEPs 0 MEPs +/- 0
      bnp Votes Percentage 1.14 -5.10 MEPs 0 MEPs +/- -2

      Hmmm…it would appear,according to the beeb,that the SNP didn’t get any MEPs.

    42. “You lot have just had a foretaste of what September 19 is GOING to feel like for you.”

      That being the case, then you have nothing to worry about, but yie are, ain’t yie?

    43. Silverytay says:

      This is the first morning ever that I have not been looking forward to my daily dose of wings as I read enough on the Rev,s twitter to make me ill .

      While I am not happy about ukip getting a Scottish m.e.p I do think that it will help people concentrate on getting a yes vote on the 18/09/14 .

      Scottish Skier will know better than me but I am sure I read an opinion poll where people would be more inclined to vote YES if ukip did well in the European elections .

    44. MJ says:

      BT and BBC want the narrative to be that “Scotland and rUK are not so different” and that’s what I’ve heard all day long. The media coverage also shows us how much of our msm comes from down south.

      A party with the highest % of votes should get media coverage but with UKIP, that’s only in England not Scotland so we should not have to put up with the party in 4th place constantly in the msm here in Scotland!

    45. Ian Mackay says:

      This poll should give the Yes campaign heart though.

      Ukip success would push 1 in 5 Scots to back Yes:
      http://archive.today/Z8vkR

    46. HandandShrimp says:

      I think we all knew there was a danger that UKIP could take that last slot with the Liberals in melt down. However let us not lose sight of the fact that the overall battle plan for a Yes vote assumed a serious lurch to the right in the rest of the UK. We have that in spade loads.

      UKIP won in England, they didn’t even take bronze medal here. Stu’s reworking above is the message we need to take to Labour and Liberal voters. Take back Scotland and take back your parties. There is a better path than the one the UK is about to embark upon.

    47. Dcanmore says:

      O/T … the GFT has banned referendum ads from the cinema saying that people were angry and complained about them. Good for them, however the Herand reports that people have been angry at advertising from both sides. Have the YES cmaoign been showing cinema advertising? I know of BT cinema ads. Is this the Herald trying deflect here?

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/angry-response-as-referendum-adverts-come-to-big-screens.24309962

    48. Robert Bryce says:

      Paul,
      As others have said before us. If your incapable of thinking for yourself the media will do your thinking for you.
      This is EXACTLY what’s happened in Scotland.
      I hope this will be the boot up the arse the remaining fence sitters need to wake up and come over to Yes.

      If not and the sentiment is allowed to grow (and by fuck will the BBC do it’s best to grow it) then we’re done for.

    49. Grouse Beater says:

      Dcanmore
      Have the YES cmaoign been showing cinema advertising?

      Yes. Innocuous, mild, well filmed, almost easy to miss because their content is so gentle: kids playing, narrator a young girl talking about her-our future.

    50. HandandShrimp says:

      Dcanmore

      I think somebody said there was a Yes advert but I have no idea what it is like. There were a few No ones though.

      I went to see Hotel Budapest a few weeks ago and there were no adverts. So this is a recent development. I think most movie goers would probably take ill forking out a lot of money to hear a political message. It has probably turned people off rather than encourage people to vote.

      I can’t see people liking unsolicited adverts on their youtube videos either.. I always skip all adverts.

    51. RogueCoder says:

      Totally disgusted with the EBC today. Not content with giving UKIP all the oxygen they needed, they are pushing the bollocks story about indy Scotland needing “180 departments” when UK Gov only has 24.

      So sick of the rampant bias. They promote any lie that BT feeds them.

    52. Grouse Beater says:

      I blame the BBC for Farage receiving so many votes.

      They certainly helped promote Farage to a great degree and his clowns by “humanising” him – so much for the razor-sharp satirical HIGNFY show – but Farage knows how to look stufyingly ordinary in comparison with the slippery antics of mainstream politicians. He’s a true reactionary and there’s plenty of those around to support his bigotry.

    53. Lee Rogers says:

      @ goldenayr

      It’s because the Scotland figures are not included, as the Scottish count/declarations are not yet complete.

    54. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      UKIP got that seat in Scotland, but not because of any merit in David Coburn. He hardly appeared in the media and when he did he was abysmal.

      They got the vote on BBC general UKIP coverage. I hope the Greens get a case together to put into the public domain about how they, with elected representation at all levels up to parliamentary, got virtually no BBC coverage while UKIP with no elected representation got more than anyone else.

      Coburn has achieved the function he was used for. He prevented the SNP getting the third MEP. He will now be exposed as the political oaf he actually is and discarded

    55. Gillie says:

      On a Black Day for Scotland the one big bright spot was Dundee.

      Dundee: SNP 13,573 (40.2%), Lab 9050 (26.8%) Con 4010 (11.9%) UKIP 2965 (8.8%) Green 2193 (6.5%) LD 1248 (3.7%)

      Well done you Dundonians

    56. Lee Rogers says:

      …and further to that, why we let a few bigots disrupt a national election is beyond me.

    57. T222Deracha says:

      Perhaps it is time for the Yes folks to dispense with the Ali rope-a dope tactics and start going for the knockout strategies.

      Sad as it is, that UKIP got so many votes in Scotland, is that so many people did not vote at all!! FFS, to paraphrase Samuel L. Jaackson,”It’s time to wake the f*ck up!!”

    58. T222Deracha says:

      Jackson even, apologies to Mr Jackson. 🙂

    59. Roll_On_2014 says:

      33% turnout
      UKIP 10% of vote

      So 3.3% of Scots voted UKIP

      And that’s supposed to be a firkin disaster for YES.

      Think I will go back to bed my heads hurtin.

    60. goldenayr says:

      Lee Rogers

      I know.

      Doesn’t stop it reading otherwise though does it?

    61. galamcennalath says:

      Ian Mackay says:
      This poll should give the Yes campaign heart though.
      Ukip success would push 1 in 5 Scots to back Yes:
      http://archive.today/Z8vkR

      “Pollsters found 18 per cent of those surveyed would be more likely to vote Yes, compared with 8 per cent who said they would be more likely to vote No.”

      It’s only ‘more likely’, but the lurch to the extreme right in England could be the boost the Yes campaign needs.

      In the cold light of day, I’m getting quite optimistic!

    62. Ravelin says:

      Lets look at the positive. 4 voters in my house when it comes to Sept.

      Me – Would take something extraordinary to happen for me not to vote YES.

      Daughter – Probably leaning towards YES. She was horrified at UKIPs gains last night, especially in England. Agreed with me this morning that a YES vote would mean “we won’t have to worry about them” (her words).

      Son – Not sure about his intention but he’s only 16 so not as politically engaged as my daughter. I’d say he’d start from a default position of being more ‘Scottish’ (both were born in England, with their mother being English, but have lived in Scotland most of their lives). I do know he does agree with the families dislike of UKIP so this could equally sway him towards YES.

      Wife – Probably the hardest sell and definitely starting from a default NO position. She is so far from UKIPs anti-EU, anti-immigration stance as it’s possible to be though.

      So in my family at least the UKIP results are almost certain to be beneficial when it comes to Sept and certainly gives me another line of argument to push for a YES.

    63. Les Wilson says:

      In the real referendum expected 75-80% to vote, I do believe that the YES vote will gain many votes from disillusioned Slab and Lib Dem voters.

      Not only does this result shake the SNP (not much as they will see the silver lining!)it will badly shake both Slab and Lib Dems.
      I think that these voters will be looking for someway to get out of the UK which can be seen to be falling apart in all they hold important. A YES vote provides a new beginning.

      Many will now think that this is now the best option open to them.

    64. Heather McLean says:

      The European Election results in Scotland are not a victory for UKIP – the SNP have exactly the same representation as they had before and are still, after seven years in government, the majority party in Scotland!
      It is though, a victory for apathy and media propaganda and means that Yes campaigners need to get their arse in gear and get out there to counteract all the lies we are continually assaulted by day in day out!

      It’s not the people who go out and vote who decide who gets elected – its the ” I can’t be bothered to get off my lazy arse and go out to vote ” folk who determine who we get! Then they are the ones who moan the loudest if things don’t suit them!

      Oh – and the BBC of course – they’ve had a hand in this!! It’s about time they were held to account – they gave UKIP 4 times more coverage than any other party – they wield far too much power and need to be reigned in!! Stop blaming each other – the Greens are Yes! Don’t start going down the divide and rule route that the BBC are rolling out for us! Blame the propaganda machine that’s brainwashing us 24/7 on behalf of Westminster!

      Get out and campaign for a Yes vote – get rid of this stinking, self serving, corrupt system once and for all! And that applies equally to the BBC and Westminster!

      This result should make us all the more determined to get out on the streets, knocking on doors, getting the message out to the people of Scotland! We need to spell out the consequences of a No vote and that message just became all the more obvious with the rising support for UKIP down in England!
      We are faced with a Tory/ UKIP coalition government and that needs to be made crystal clear! There’s no white knight in shining armour waving the Labour colours coming to our rescue! There’s NO CHANCE.of further powers for Scotland! If people can’t see that now they need telt!
      Every single one of us need to stop pussyfooting around ” being nice” about it because the No camp are nasty liars and need exposed as such!
      Get out there people and win a Yes vote and free us from the corruption and misery that Westminster represents!

    65. bunter says:

      If the media perceive that Scots are sensitive to immigration scares, we can expect to see the BT brigade to poke at the open wound, in the absence of any YES counter argument, so far.

      The BBC has deemed its acceptable now to attack immigrants, so it will now be open season and I wonder how our eastern European population are thinking.

      YES and SNP need to come out with strong arguments and soon.

    66. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Heather McLean —

      Hear hear.

      And if anyone wants to make a start today, they are very welcome to come along to Whitlees Community Centre, Ardrossan, this evening, kick-off 7 p.m. Finishes about 9.

      Yes Three Towns group answering questions for the DKs. SSP North Ayrshire will be outside with leaflets and selling the SSP Voice. All welcome.

      It’s the GOYA movement – ‘Get Off Your Arses’.

    67. Grouse Beater says:

      Proportional representation and voter apathy has its downside.

    68. wingman 2020 says:

      UKIP in Scotland is a cross border infection / leakage of English politics and media.

      Nothing more, nothing less.

      The South DO have immigration challenges in the South.
      They DO have ‘problems’ between Westminster control and EU control.
      They DO have problems with the Westminster two party-FPTP political system.

      This ‘leaks’ across to Scotland because of the UK wide media influence and control.
      London politics and political problem(s) infect(s) Scotland (Yes, infects)

      It leaks across to Scotland, because Labour believe they can keep a foot in each camp – Tory in the South and Socialist in the North. Labour think they can be a Specialist Doctor for two different types of illness, and cure them with the same antidote.

      Forget ‘different countries’ – We are two distinctively different bodies. We are not twins. We are not brothers. We are cousins. Each with our own ‘illnesses’….

      The problem is living next door to your big cousin, you start to imagine that you have similar ailments.

      Independence is moving away from your ‘big cousin’, changing your Doctor and concentrating on your own health and well being.

      A better, healthier, happier Scotland is possible…. But not under the Westminster Hospice.

    69. Greannach says:

      I don’t see this as that bad a result at all, although it is deeply shameful that UKIP could win a seat in Scotland. However, after 7 years in government the SNP is the largest party with the largest share of the vote (sso far counted).

      If the Western Isles place the SNP first, the SNP will have won in 16 council areas, Labour in 10, Conservatives in 4 and Liberals in 2. The SNP came second in another 14 seats (just 37 votes behind Labour in Edinburgh).

      The Green Party vote has never been higher, they beat the Liberals into 6th place and came in third in Glasgow.

      It’s disappointing to see the glee of unionist politicians and media commentators at the UKIP win, and puzzling given that the Labour, Conservative and Liberals are the ones who have suffered at the hands of UKIP. Maybe they think they can control UKIP, but we’ve seen quite a few examples in history of elites thinking they could control ‘anti-establishment’ movements only to find themselves overthrown.

      The message is clear to all people who are not dyed-in-the-wool British nationalists like Murdo Fraser and Johann Lamont. There will be a Conservative-UKIP coalition in the UK, Labour will be the main opposition and the Liberals might hold on to Orkney and Shetland and a couple of places in southern England. The UK will be out of the EU and public services will be hammered.

      It’s either vote Yes or get out of the place.

    70. Les Wilson says:

      Just now on BBC Scotland news, UKIP person saying they
      want out of Europe ” Because we put a lot in, and do not
      get enough back”
      Seems a very familiar quote!and if it had came from the right people, is very acceptable to me.

      Oh, they have already said!, but not against Europe!

    71. wingman 2020 says:

      Stu, My last two posts didn’t see the light of day. Am I in some kind of moderation?

    72. Robert Louis says:

      Heather McLean,

      Well said, Totally agree times 10 billion. The BBC and unionists want independence supporters to be down trodden, don’t let them do it. Don’t fall for the media tricks, and don’t keep attacking Green voters, they are our allies in this.

      Let’s get our positive message out, and leave England to dwell on their UKIP nonsense. Their is a referendum to win.

    73. wingman 2020 says:

      I don’t understand. Some posts make it… others don’t. I cannot see the distinction?

    74. Famous15 says:

      So angry at BBC I cancelled my licence Direct Debit. Angrier still I phoned and asked for a refund as I was paid up to September.Letter in agreeing to the refund!

    75. Grouse Beater says:

      My last two posts didn’t see the light of day. Am I in some kind of moderation?

      No. Happens to others, myself included. You get some sort of warning if consistently naughty – wait to see if they appear. Check you’re typing your e-mail address correctly. Usually a glitch in the electronic system not recognising a member with a typo slip.

    76. X_Sticks says:

      @Heather McLean

      Couldn’t agree more with your whole post.

    77. X_Sticks says:

      @Ian

      GOYA for Yes!

      Gonna GOYA?

      Liking that one Ian!

    78. steviecosmic says:

      For those who missed the link, it looks like Coburn may have lied to the Electoral Commission about his address. It has been reported to Police Scotland, and if found guilty, his election will be invalidated.

    79. Jim Marshall says:

      There is another side to the UKIP argument to leave the EU and curtail immigration into the UK. There are an estimated 5.5 million UK citizens living abroad. This includes 3/4 million in Spain and 1/4 in France. If UKIP has its way will all these people have to be repatriated ?. After all, stopping immigration inward will have repercussions on outward emigration. I doubt if those who voted UKIP have thought this through.

      There is no need for YES campaigners to be despondent at the EURO election results even though we find them repugnant. On Sep18 the Scottish people when faced with a choice of independence or a Tory/UKIP coalition will vote our way.

    80. Grouse Beater says:

      For those who missed the link, it looks like Coburn may have lied to the Electoral Commission about his address. It has been reported to Police Scotland, and if found guilty, his election will be invalidated.

      So good it’s worth repeating!

    81. X_Sticks says:

      steviecosmic says:

      “if found guilty, his election will be invalidated.”

      That would be so sweet 😀

    82. Papadox says:

      Re SLAB would rather have a right wing Tory government than a labour independent one.

      Ask jimmy Hood MP, which one he would vote for? Think he has already told us!

    83. I don’t think it is being negative to point out that a no vote in sept is a vote for Boris & Nigel
      FFs if that does not make slab voters think Nothing will

    84. Gillie says:

      The list of regions who voted for UKIP above their average vote for Scotland (10.4%).

      Scotland’s New Ragmans Roll

      1. Moray
      2. Dumfries & Galloway
      3. Falkirk
      4. Scottish Borders
      5. Highland
      6. Orkney
      7. Shetland
      8. West Lothian
      9. Aberdeenshire
      10. North Ayrshire
      11. Argyll & Bute
      12. South Lanarkshire
      13. Angus
      14. Midlothian
      15. North Lanarkshire
      16. West Dunbartonshire

      Their votes ensured UKIP won a seat in Scotland

    85. steviecosmic says:

      Let’s all cross our fingers and hope so. It would put a nail in UKIP’s coffin in Scotland.

    86. goldenayr says:

      Anyone else getting the impression that there might be a Westminster GE sooner than next year if the disaffected LDs decide to oust Clegg?

    87. James123 says:

      Farage said one interesting thing last night, he claimed that the Labour Party would come out in favour of an EU referendum but only after the independence referendum. Even he knows how devious the No campaign is.

    88. alexicon says:

      You could also say: vote Labour get ukip!

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just heard there on BBC WS that Clegg postponed an interview (with Nick Robinson?) until later today.

      Hmm…if he goes, what happens to Danny ‘Food Bank Tsar’ Alexander?

    90. Nana Smith says:

      @Grouse Beater

      If this is true then we should apply pressure on the commission to invalidate. I hope it happens.

    91. X_Sticks says:

      I hope all good UKIP voters will wear their UKIP badges with pride so the rest of us know who to ostracize.

    92. Triangular Ears says:

      Has anyone worked out, or does anyone know how to work out, how many seats each party in Scotland would have had if Scotland was a normal independent country with the 13 MEPs that we would be entitled to as a sovereign EU member (based on Denmark’s number of MEPs)?

      Let’s turn this UKIP ‘gain’ into a positive argument for independence by showing that UKIP are now over-represented in Scotland.

      Quick calculations of 28.9% and 10.4% of 13 (I’m assuming that’s how it works) makes 4 SNP and still 1 UKIP.

      This to me is another reason for becoming a proper grown-up country. Let’s exploit this argument.

    93. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The most scandalous thing about Scottish press coverage of the Euro election was the conspiracy of silence about who and what David Coburn is.

      He is actually a London arts dealer with virtually no connection to Scotland and no knowledge whatsoever of what is happening in Scotland. He was drafted in as UKIP in Scotland imploded. He contribution from here will be very little but he will be a convenient target for the Labour Party to practice on though they will have been delighted that he prevented the SNP getting a third seat

    94. Grouse Beater says:

      He is actually a London arts dealer

      Arts? That has to be a gross exaggeration.

    95. Triangular Ears says:

      In fact, I make it (based on % so far in Scotland):

      4 SNP
      3 Labour
      2 Conservative
      1 UKIP
      1 Green
      1 LD

      with 1 spare!

    96. Nana Smith says:

      The slimy Curtice is at it again.

      Professor John Curtice, who specialises in politics and elections in the UK, told RIA Novosti that whilst the result in Scotland is a good one for the pro-independence Scottish National Party (SNP) the election of a far-right, Ukip MEP in Scotland will be seen as a blow to the campaign for Scottish independence.

      “The Yes campaign hoped the election of three SNP MEPs would show how very different the values of Scotland are from those held by voters south of the border – and thus illustrates why Scotland should seek to govern itself,” Curtice said. “But the election of a Ukip MEP in Scotland will put a dent in that argument.”

      The rest of the article is here…

      http://en.ria.ru/world/20140526/190140218/ANALYSIS-Scottish-And-UK-Independence-Parties-Secure-Historic.html

    97. The Man in the Jar says:

      I hope that any independence supporters that said that “Its only an EU election I cant be bothered to vote” are content with their choice.

    98. Paula Rose says:

      Coburn ran the Lexicon School of English – for foreign students, seems he pocketed the fees and closed it down.

    99. Grouse Beater says:

      The slimy Curtice is at it again. Professor John Curtice…

      Hold on! He’s a “leading” statistician.

      The Yes campaign hoped the election of three SNP MEPs would show how very different the values of Scotland

      Yes, otherwise the Orange Lodge would be ruling Scotland as if Little England.

    100. Training Day says:

      Disgusted at the morons who voted for UKIP. A shameful day for Scotland. It will only be topped by the shame of voting No.

      One thing has to be crystal clear though. Can the Yes campaign please, for the love of God, take the gloves off with the BBC? The nicey-nicey approach hasn’t worked with this implacable enemy of Scotland. It won’t work, and we will never get a fair hearing from this corrupt organisation. So why not just say so?

      The sneering of Dimbleby and Curtice last night was sickening. But unless we take this monster on, we deserve their contempt.

    101. Famou15 says:

      If Coburn is illegitamate candidate then the next UKIP in line steps up.

      In a democracy **** happens. The Referendum is another ball game and for starters the voting slip is more direct. I would guess some people were put off or made mistakes when faced with the lengthy ballot paper.

    102. HandandShrimp says:

      I found the BBC coverage last unwatchable. Nothing political, it was just rubbish.

    103. galamcennalath says:

      A link giving more info on Coburn’s address ….

      http://edinburgheye.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/where-does-david-coburn-live/

      Let us all hope the evidence is solid!

    104. TYRAN says:

      Scotland hater Cockburn voted in. Crazy stuff.

    105. James123 says:

      @Training Day
      One thing has to be crystal clear though. Can the Yes campaign please, for the love of God, take the gloves off with the BBC?

      One thing Farage does constantly is have a pop at sections of the media who he believes are biased against UKIP. On Friday he said on the BBC that at times it has felt like a witch hunt against him. Did these accusations hurt him? Not a jot.

      Not only could the Yes campaign complain about bias at the BBC they could provide reams of clear evidence that backs it up. Sitting back and biting their tongue may prove to be a huge mistake.

    106. Paula Rose says:

      @ TYRAN – but 3% of any country probably hate where they live.

    107. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ galamcennalath

      What are the chances that he says it was a genuine mistake?

      He didn’t understand the difference of being domiciled and living at?

      He was living in Edinburgh during the election run up.

      The EC will let him off; unintentional error etc.

      What are the chances that he says it was a geunine mistake?

      He didn’t understand the difference of being domiciled and living at?

      He was living in Edinburgh during the election run up.

      The EC will let him off; unintentional error etc.

    108. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Paula Rose

      You mean he was aiding and abetting illegal immigrants?

    109. With the freedom vote coming up There should be a law against printing lies It can at the end of the day as we are seeing Give people with control of the media The back door into controlling the country IE SCOTLAND SOME OF THEM ARE JUST BLATENT LIES and there are people in the country who depend on the tabloids for their news THE BBC should be held culpable especially some of the nonsense that comes out makes me cringe If this continues without check and its proved it affected the end result There will be a backlash afterwards

    110. Gillie says:

      The Moronic Tendency in Scotland have elected their representative.

      I see Mags Curran almost wet herself with glee in praising the UKIP victory.

    111. NewportDee says:

      I felt depressed this morning when I woke up to hear that UKIP was the largest party in the UK and were likely to get a seat in Scotland. God knows how I would feel IF the country votes against independence.

      I became even more depressed listening to Morning Call on Radio Scotland and hearing the “reasoning” behind those who voted UKIP. Honestly they don’t have a clue. One reckoned UKIP would help to get rid of the bedroom tax (and increase benefits? : ( ) – this from a party that wants to privatise the NHS and have a flat rate of tax.

    112. LizM says:

      EdinburghEye also has a post about EU citizens being disenfranchised.

      Check it out, sorry don’t know how to link.

    113. Papadox says:

      @Heather McLean says:

      Well said heather. Could not agree more the Scottish people are being treated like eejits by the mighty EBC. Curtice has shown his true colours, a weasel for sure.

    114. goldenayr says:

      Glen Campbell on BEEB just said Coburn moved back to Scotland in December last year to take up his position as lead UKIP candidate.

    115. Paula Rose says:

      @ BtP – here’s a pice about Coburn, the Daily Retard also covered the story.

      http://m.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/3621/ukip039s-top-scottish-candidate-who-left-foreign-students-thousands-out-of-pocket

    116. Phil Robertson says:

      “Vote no, get UKIP” – real “project fear” stuff this. Is this negative spin the best the Yes campaign can come up with after the Euro election? The best way to defeat UKIP is to vote Labour in the 2015 general election.

      Now what was all that about the negativity of the Better Together campaign?

    117. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Paula Rose

      Taking money on behalf of a Company which has been been closed down is fraud and a criminal offence, which at least should have led him to be disqualified as a Director.

      I think Farge was declared bankrupt some time ago?

    118. Edmund says:

      “For those who missed the link, it looks like Coburn may have lied to the Electoral Commission about his address. It has been reported to Police Scotland, and if found guilty, his election will be invalidated.”

      It would also be seen as an attack on democracy – though presumably he would just be replaced by whoever is second on the UKIP list?

      Whether we like it or not people felt they had valid reasons to vote UKIP. I think many of those reasons are the same ones that justify a Yes vote – a British establishment that is not acting in the interests of ordinary people, public services being dismantled, overcrowding due to a dysfunctional housing market. To many people, the argument that more people equals less services is self-evident, even though the actual reason our quality of life is slipping has more to do with the way both Labour and the Tories are running the country for the sole benefit of the bankers.

      If the country was run properly and people had secure jobs and housing, rather fewer UKIP voters would care that the Romanian next door also enjoys a secure job and a nice house.

      Time would be better spent working towards a positive alternative, rather than telling people they voted the wrong way. My Twitter feed is full of idiots acting like a vote for UKIP was a vote for Mussolini.

      As for bashing Green voters – for goodness sake. The Greens are campaigning for Yes! Why should Green voters waste their vote tactically, when there won’t be another vote for five years? Tactical voting is a mental trap that ensures that only the big, established parties ever make any progress. It’s doubly insane to expect people to vote tactically under a proportional voting system – every vote counts. The Greens were just as close to beating UKIP in Scotland as the SNP were.

      We can now all watch as the Tories and Labour both learn precisely the wrong lessons from UKIP, lurch even further rightwards, and tinker with the benefits system to ‘crack down’ on immigrants. Heaven forbid they actually fix any of the real problems.

      If Scotland votes No you’ll have bigger problems than UKIP. The red and blue parties haven’t finished their neoliberal project yet – in Scotland, they’ve barely begun.

    119. HandandShrimp says:

      Coburn is not important. He is such a car crash when he starts talking there are benefits to not kicking him off the list. Whoever is second might be half way sensible. I think Otto is third though so maybe not 😉

      As I said before, the sixth seat is not that important. The pains that people like Curran are at to try and pretend that Scotland has gone as UKIP daft as England is just barking. If she can’t tell the difference between 1st and 4th then she is in the wrong job. The point to gather from this is not that UKIP squeaked in at the tail end here but that Curtice and and the rest are rattled by the extent of UKIP’s victory in England. That is a danger to Better Together and they know it.

    120. Grouse Beater says:

      It would also be seen as an attack on democracy

      Do you mean Cockburn will depict it as such?
      Most likely. Do we care?

      We’re facing ruthless forces determined to deflect and stall Scotland’s legitimate ambitions – lose no sleep over liars and cheats sent packing.

    121. goldenayr says:

      That useless bloody beeb dropped the coverage of the count to go to the news and tell everybody how wonderful UKIP is.

      Anyone hear the address Coburn gave for his seat.

    122. caz-m says:

      Training Day

      I have been on BBC Scotland’s case since 2012 regarding their bias reporting, yet their are STILL people on this very website who will take the side of BBC Scotland staff, these people don’t seem to hear the blatant lies that come out of Pacific Quay.

      They know who they are and I hope they are all proud of themselves.

      IF we do lose this referendum, it won’t be because of any Political Party, It will be because of the lies and misinformation that has came out of Pacific Quay.

    123. Peter says:

      Final and overwhelming proof that the majority of unionists are anti-Scottish racists. Well done them.

    124. Janine says:

      The BBC did their job well. David Cameron is reported as saying ‘the message has been received and understood’.

      The message he got, with the help of the government mouthpiece, is that voters are happy for them to introduce UKIP-inspired policy. Further privatisation of the NHS, an end to sick pay and maternity pay, further demonization of immigrants and abolishment/reduction of the Welsh and Scottish parliaments.

      Yep, they fell for it big time.

    125. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood ave always been a fan of GOYA ma

      PURDY BRUSHES at the ready.

      British Bullshit Corperation should have been tackled head

      on,as with the Print Media.

      ALL INDY PARTY should be coming TOGETHER at every turn Fuck

      this Them & US mindset. Present a UNITED FRONT to the

      people.

      WE HAVE TO TAKE ON THE BULLSHIT OF THE BBC. Cmon PEOPLE

      I HAVE SHOUTED OUT BEFORE FOR A RALLY AT PACIFIC QUAY,

      LET THE PEOPLE SEE THE BIASED BBC. BURNING YOUR TV LICENCE

      PLACARDS DONT COST A LOT OF MONEY( MAKE YOUR OWN).

    126. Les Wilson says:

      I have posted before that when real biased or anti Indy stuff appears we should have a network between ALL the Indy outlets. When something worth appears we could contradict it e masse. Coordination is the key, these sites could depict in it their own way.

      This would mean a very strong way to expose the lies, and deceit we have to deal with.
      All the websites, all the bloggs, twitter, facebook and probably more.
      That would provide a real challenge to the BBC et al, and the Unionists.

      How hard could that be, an encrypted email send to all on the list with one click. Someone who better understands what is involved should be doing this. Otherwise responses will always to challenge such stuff is difficult to achieve big number responses.

      Add in the leafleting, the doorstep discussions, the meetings up and down the land, everywhere we can. That would be powerful.
      It would help our cause no end. Someone please listen!

    127. Horseboy says:

      @X_Sticks
      re: Aye Right flyers

      Good news.

      I’m near Duthie Park.

      Saw your HAT last Saturday at Markies YES stall.

      Can be at Markies or city centre anytime.

      Let me know when, if.

      cheeri

      ps. tried to post this reply over weekend!
      I seemed to be blocked at weekends?

    128. Barontorc says:

      By all means use people power to thwart these anti-nasties, but by every means get the UN / human rights / civil rights organizations involved pronto.

      The BBC is acting like a rabid dog and we are the real fools paying them to do it to us.

      God knows – it’s not to embarrass the Scottish Government – our democratically elected government, but something has to happen very soon and officially move against this state instigated propaganda.

      The oppression of our civil rights is there, the electoral fraud was and will happen again, perpetrated by specific political activists who could be found and charged.

      The UKIP affair is an implement of the UK establishment, it was outrageously fostered by the BBC; how many times has Farage been on Question Time – he is a nonentity, an unknown, a non-representing and very peripheral politico with no UK position, yet he was one of two the most invited guests ever of Dimbleby – the other being Ken Clark who at least had an appropriate background. The UKIP which does not have one political manifesto item has been lionized by the UK establishment – why?

      It’s past time that the FM and Scottish Government instructed it’s legal team to take immediate action.

    129. David Smith says:

      Somebody offered to take a muck spreader to Pacific Quay a while back. Maybe that idea’s time has truly come! 🙂

    130. bjsalba says:

      Strange. Looking at the figures in a different way.

      London – not for UKIP.
      Around London – for UKIP.
      Far away from London – not for UKIP.

      Curiouser and curiouser.

    131. geeo says:

      I am finding this thread difficult reading.

      It seems clear that UKIP gained votes from those unionist voters who would vote against SNP even if it made them rich to vote WITH them.

      There seems absolutely NO reason to suggest anyone left SNP to vote UKIP. For me that says more about the rabid hatred for the SNP amongst the unholy BT trinity.

      The facts are simple, SNP did not lose the 6th seat, it not previously theirs to lose.

      Nobody in the media has questioned why scottish labour or the tories never dented the 6th seat, especially considering UKIP have zero prior history of success in Scotland.

      As for the ludicrous claims that Scotland are no different politically from ruk due to this result, utter pash.
      In england in particular, UKIP were the highest % of votes, this was not due to a secret generation of new voters, this was due to labour, lib dem and tory voters turning against their own party to give them a bloody nose.

      I certainly did not see the SNP support protest against their stewardship of Scottish government, on the contrary, the SNP won comfortably.

      I see no reason to fret, i mean, even the tories have a seat up here.

      What impact will a solitary MEP for UKIP have in the lead up to the referendum ?
      Not much in reality.

      To be honest, if the labour/lib dem support cannot see what is going on then that says more about why they are where they are, in opposition for the forseeable future and heading for oblivion.

      I feel quite optimistic personally.

    132. geeo says:

      Testing testing !!

      Did we win ?

    133. arranc says:

      the bbc. better be run out of Scotland after 18th. sept i have waited 59yrs for indy.

    134. wingman 2020 says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/sep/02/help-to-buy-scheme-treasury-figures

      London and south-east grab the lion’s share of Help to Buy

    135. wingman 2020 says:

      People… whichever constituency the new Labour Leader is standing for… I propose Wings crowdfund and make extra effort to support the SNP and make sure Labour bite the dust.

      What do you think?

      Do we have enough muscle?

    136. wingman 2020 says:

      Clearly being ‘rolled in glitter’



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