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The bulldog whistle

Posted on April 24, 2014 by

Earlier this week we mentioned a nasty bit of politics from Scottish Labour MP Gregg McClymont warning that Scotland would need “a million immigrants” to be able to fund old-age pensions in the future. We were too busy picking holes in Gordon Brown to look into the story in depth, but when it handily appeared again in today’s Daily Record (this time attributed to Yvette Cooper) we checked it a bit more closely.

Any similarity to Labour and BNP rhetoric is entirely actual.

The Record went with the same dramatic figure for its headline, but it’s not until several paragraphs down either article that you get to the rather less attention-grabbing reality.

Because that figure refers to the total net migration by 2051 – almost 40 years into the future. We’ll leave aside the fact that nobody actually has a clue how many old people Scotland will have four decades from now (and many of us won’t live long enough to find out), and that therefore the figure is basically meaningless anyway, and instead note that according to both articles it’s an average of 24,000 a year.

So what’s the net migration into Scotland been for, say, the last decade?

2002/3: 5,643
2003/4: 18,622
2004/5: 25,307
2005/6: 18,822
2006/7: 33,049
2007/8: 26,409
2008/9: 24,422
2009/10: 26,075
2010/11: 32,209
2011/12: 12,738

Average: 22,330

In other words, this terrible, nightmarish flood of diabolical foreigners coming to eat our babies imagined by McClymont and Cooper is actually only about 1700 a year more than what we have now – a situation which has noticeably failed to see Scotland find itself choc-a-bloc with suspicious aliens from abroad.

But there’s more. While seeing if there were figures for 2012/13, we came across an interesting piece from last August in, of all places, the Scottish Daily Express.

“Despite reaching record levels, overall growth in the population slumped to the lowest level in almost a decade. 

Only around 13,000 more people live in Scotland now than last year, while  the population had increased by an average of around 25,000 a year.

Economists believe the population needs to grow by 24,000 people a year just to keep pace with European economies.”

And it got weirder still.

“Conservative finance spokesman Gavin Brown said:

‘A country like ours needs people, particularly young people, to come in to work and increase the tax base. That is absolutely essential for the economy. So for this increase to halve could prove extremely significant, especially compared to the growth rate before.

It could just be a one-year blip, but the minister in charge at the Scottish Government needs to find out why this is has happened and explain as quickly as possible what the solution will be.'”

Yeah, we had to read it over a couple of times too just to make sure we’d got it right.

Labour are screaming about Scotland being swamped by immigrants – “Inward migration of almost one million people in a country with a current population of just over 5 million people is simply not credible”, said McClymont in the Herald – while the Tories are panicking that we don’t have enough immigrants.

Everyone seems to agree that the current level (or a little more) is pretty much what we need for Scotland’s economy to stay healthy, but if you listen to Labour – the party, they never tire of telling us, of “internationalists” – it’s a ridiculous, unachievable, undesirable impossibility which would destroy our culture or something, while the traditionally-xenophobic Tories fret that we need to throw open the doors even as their colleagues south of the border frantically try to slam them.

So what have we learned? Labour are racists, the Tories are hypocrites, and either neither of them can count or they’re both lying through their teeth about immigration in order to opportunistically suit different cynical political agendas at different times.

Business as usual, then.

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    328 to “The bulldog whistle”

    1. Croompenstein says:

      Immigration aint the boogey man up here, they just don’t get us, most immigration to iScotland will be from our neighbours in these islands.

    2. Les Wilson says:

      I believe our biggest input of immigrants, will come from ENGLAND!

      Very many will want to escape a society that is breaking down, quickly. Many will choose to live, work, and have a better life here, where they will find here, something worth coming to.

    3. Ravelin says:

      Now I’m confused. In the 26 working years since I left college I’ve gone Scotland -> England (6yrs) -> Scotland -> USA (3yrs) -> Scotland. Does that make me an immigrant? An emigrant? A foreigner (shock horror!)? Or a combination of all 3? There really is no hope for me is there?

    4. Jamie Arriere says:

      Yes, you’re right Gavin Brown, we do need more immigrants but your pleas will not be heard by the baying packs of hounds down south in your own party, who will slam Scotland’s doors shut.

      The Scottish Government DO have a solution – it’s called independence.

    5. wingman 2020 says:

      The crazy thing is, there are people out there who will take the Cooper figures at face value and think they are doing the right thing with a ‘NO’

      And in the event of a NO vote in September, Scotland’s economic performance will continue to be under pressure. (The figures for business bankruptcy has just been reported as up 70% in Scotland)

      We need more small, entrepreneurial businesses coming through, attracting innovators, technicians, ideas and investment. We need less Labour theatrics, hysteria and ignorant politicking if we are going to turn this country around.

      I will ever forget what Labour have done to Scotland.

    6. wingman 2020 says:

      I personally know people (4 to be exact) who are committed to immigrating (and returning) to Scotland if there is a YES vote.

    7. Colin says:

      The wee tartan (blue) book should dispel most of the guff coming from across the border.
      Late August might be a good time for it to drop through every letterbox in Scotland.
      I have no doubt another fundraising event to get the book printed would be warmly received as would requests for distribution help.

    8. kininvie says:

      Here I go, blowing my own trumpet again – but this was my piece on immigration a few months back, for those who didn’t catch it previously:

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-immigration-falsehood/

    9. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Les Wilson says:

      I believe our biggest input of immigrants, will come from ENGLAND!

      Very many will want to escape a society that is breaking down, quickly. Many will choose to live, work, and have a better life here, where they will find here, something worth coming to.

      I have a wee ponderance here. At the moment we have many people already moving from England, Wales and N.I. to Scotland for a whole variety of reasons. Are these people counted in the figures Stu has listed as the yearly immigration figures?

      If our fellow “Brits” movements to Scotland are not counted towards our annual immigration figures then surely after independence three things will happen in my view.

      1) People from England, Wales and N.I. will continue to move to Scotland.

      2) As a result of 1) the movements from England, Wales and N.I. will now count towards our annual immigration target of 24,000. (I’m assuming here that they do not already do so.)

      3) If things continue the way they are currently going in soon to be rUK the movement of people from England, Wales and N.I. could very well increase after independence.

      This is yet another fine example of the Tory party, RED,BLUE and YELLOW calling black white and white black just to make a noise. They have nothing to say but want to make a noise none the less.

    10. Fairliered says:

      We will need more than 24,000. We will need replacements for the likes of Davidson and Carmichael that hate Scotland so much that they undermine us at every opportunity. After Independence we should deport them to a place they prefer – Westminster!

    11. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Are these people counted in the figures Stu has listed as the yearly immigration figures?”

      If you click the link you’ll see that it counts both intra-UK and external migration, listed separately.

      DOESN’T ANYONE EVER GAH.

    12. handclapping says:

      As one of Gordon Brown’s constituents, I recognise this as the Gordon Brown hypothesis of big numbers. Like by hyperbolic projections and leaving out the timescale one can always find the subject for a sound-bite.

      On this basis using the figures I quoted for the National Insurance Fund, National Insurance is broke; the UK cannot pay the OAP or JSA but that depends on current trends continuing and is two years away. Well if its good enough for my MP, its good enough for me

    13. Murray McCallum says:

      Gordon Brown’s number 3 positive item was British jobs for Scottish workers. Otherwise we will be unwanted foreigners. Nigel Farage will tour an independent Scotland trailed by a channel 4 camera crew asking everyone when they are moving to England.

      Isn’t it normally a compliment that people wish to come and work in your country? It means there are jobs *and* the country is an attractive place to live.

    14. JLT says:

      Croompenstein

      I agree mate. I think a lot of folk from the north of England will emigrate to Scotland.
      Once we get over the period of settlement after independence, and if the economy and culture can grow within that period, then I can see a lot of people from England wanting to move to Scotland to not only work, but to live.

      I think Salmond’s speech to the north of England yesterday was not to smooth the waters, but to offer a sense of hope; that Scotland won’t abandon the North of England. It was designed to make the people there question their very own future. For the moment, they probably won’t say too much, but if a ‘Yes’ happens, then I do believe they will grab that opportunity with both hands. I think many Northern English politicians and business leaders will want to talk to the Scottish Government. They will know that there is no future for them if they look to London. Their eyes will turn to Scotland. With Edinburgh and Glasgow just 50 to a 100 miles away for the likes of Carlisle, Newcastle and Sunderland, these cities will want to create business opportunities and be part of a great Northern revival. If they don’t …then what are they left with? Scraps from London really.

    15. wingman 2020 says:

      The problem is, we export a lot of talent 800,000 Scots working in rUK.

      We have 460,000 English here, a signification portion who have come here for retirement and on the back of Southern house prices. (releasing equity for retirement)

      It is surprising how well Scotland has actually survived given these challenges.

    16. Fiona says:

      We could also pursue a full employment policy: that would help, both directly and in slowing the outward flow of emigration. Unfortunately such a policy is barred by neoclassical economic thinking and that is what all mainstream parties follow.

    17. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I suspect that the million we need will come from south of Berwick-on-Tweed and much quicker than 2051.

      I also suspect that if the Scottish economic motor develops The NE and NW of England will see significant population growth or at the very least a reduction of depopulation.

      A wee Ruhr, for Scotland?

    18. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @JLT

      Spot on

    19. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Are these people counted in the figures Stu has listed as the yearly immigration figures?”

      If you click the link you’ll see that it counts both intra-UK and external migration, listed separately.

      DOESN’T ANYONE EVER GAH.

      Oops!

      Sorry Stu 🙁

    20. HorseHead says:

      Is this the future.
      Vote YES NOW.
      Make Scotland a safer place.
      ==========================================================

      Married taxi driver Mohammed Ashraf 53 took 14year old schoolgirl into Edinburgh to buy gifts and raped her, on 16/11/2012 at Edinburgh flat.He’s behind bars today.

      Crown accepted his not guilty plea to behaving in a threatening or abusive manner by repeatedly phoning the girl and waiting outside her school.

      http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/taxi-driver-sexually-assaulted-14-year-old-girl-1-3383420
      ==========================================================

      This was happening in every English city, over the last BlairBrown labour years!

      Seems the Police, Prosecutors, Judges and Justice Minister and MP’s impossible to protect their underage girls!

      All these officials are paid to protect the young and vulnerable! Why are they not!

    21. Peter says:

      We don’t need more immigrants. There is no country on this planet that needs more immigrants. What’s wrong with a government that plans for a sensibly reducing population?

      With an oil fund there is no bilge about immigrants paying for your pension either. A pyramid scheme that can only end in disaster.

      Scotland is OVERPOPULATED! Too many people for the land to sustain. You can be as wishy washy leftie liberal as you like but mass immigration is and always has been a disaster for every country to suffer it.

      Just ask native Tasmanians.

    22. Cactus says:

      Welcome to Scotland people of England, Ireland & Wales (as always).

      A special welcome and thanks goes out to all of the people from overseas, who decided to settle and make Scotland their home of choice and vote that, Yes, Scotland should become an independent country.

      Viva multi-cultural Scotland! X

    23. Craig P says:

      From nothing more scientific than seeing how the populations of other European countries have grown since the start of the 20th century, and sticking my finger in the air, I reckon that Scotland’s population should now be 8 million just to be on parity with the rest of Europe. I think of our current 5 million population as 3 million missed opportunities.

    24. Thepnr says:

      O/T Just a reminder for those who may not have seen it yet. There is to be a gathering of like minded Wings folk in Jolly’s Hotel, Broughty Ferry two weeks tomorrow on 9th May.

      If it is as successful as the Glasgow meet on 4th April you are guaranteed a good night. Rooms are available at a very good price on the Laterooms site for those from out of town who may wish to stay over. Drink and meals are extremely reasonable to.

      If you are only going to make one Wings night before September, think about making it to this one. It will be a belter.

      Don’t miss this night and have no regrets.

    25. kininvie says:

      @Peter

      Before coming out with utterly unsubstantiated opinon, why not check the facts – such as I outlined in the article I referenced above (5.32pm). Then, if you continue to disagree, you can at least put forward a reason or two why I’m wrong.

    26. HorseHead says:

      Police officer accused of tipping off drug dealers

      PC Alan Halliday 44 – a serving constable with the Lothian and Borders division of Police Scotland – is said to have contacted the dealers by phone after he found out their house was about to visited by drug squad officers last month.

      http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-officer-accused-of-tipping-off-drug-dealers-1-3382939?WT.mc

    27. Toots Capoot says:

      Sorry to go off topic but was just googling about the upcoming Euro elections and noticed the (all too frequent these days) mistake, when referring to the SNP.

      http://www.euroelection.co.uk/allparties

    28. caz-m says:

      STVs John Mackay and Bernard Ponsonby, urr a perr a unionist wankers.

      FACT!

    29. Ken500 says:

      Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster London S/E centrist policies. Spending the Oil revenues on London S/E and illegal wars etc has depopulated Scotland. Unemployment in Scotland and the North was according to Westminster Politicans and the Gov of the BoE, a worth paying for jobs and prosperity in the South.

      The way Scotland has been treated in the Union is a disgrace. Scotland had a 1/4 of population of the UK in 1707,which would have been 15million today, instead of approx a 1/10. It is only since Devolution that the population has increased. The proportion of Scots in England and English people in Scotland is (pro rata) the same 10%

      The arguments about Pensions are nonsense.Scottish taxpayers pay (UK) gov Pensions and benefits. £27Billion. The Welfare bill is high because retired people, especially women who worked part-time, had no salaried pension rights. In the future there will be an increase in retired people with pension rights. Pensioners pay tax. There will be more pensioners but more pensioners paying tax. There are advantages to having a more elderly population less crime etc.

      Vote Yes.

    30. Thepnr says:

      @Horsehead

      Corrupt police and sex offenders exist in every country in the world. Nothing whatsoever to do with Independence so I fail to see the point you are attempting to make.

      One thing is clear though, there is more corruption in Westminster than there is in the Scottish Government and that Government corruption is the one thing we can eradicate.

      By voting Yes.

    31. Croompenstein says:

      @Peter – our population has barely changed in a hundred years
      dunno where you get that we’re OVERPOPULATED

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Scotland#Population_totals_for_Scotland_1600_-_2011

    32. caz-m says:

      As well as the BBC being a member of the CBI, I am sure ITV are also members of the CBI?

      These two organisations ,BBC and ITV, should resign from the CBI with immediate effect.

      If not, then they should openly express their reasons for funding an anti-Scottish Independence organisation, the CBI.

      So should ALL broadcasters and radio stations who are members of the pro-union CBI

    33. Training Day says:

      I think I’ll ‘suspend’ going into work tomorrow. My employer will no doubt understand that I can’t say whether I will definitely be there or not.

    34. Thepnr says:

      @Nana Smith

      Suspend? WTF, they should have resigned, full stop. When they rejoin it will hopefully be the EBC.

      Will the Election Commission come down on them shortly, I bloody hope so.

    35. Bill Walters says:

      As far as I understand it, the BBC have already said they’re suspending their membership of the CBI during the referendum campaign, then rejoining it afterwards.

    36. Nana Smith says:

      @ Thepnr

      Just disgusted with the bbc,I’m lost for words other than bad ones.

    37. G. Campbell says:

      The BBC has announced that it is to suspend its membership of the employers’ organisation the CBI, but not for a while yet. We’ll do it in 5 weeks’ time and we’ll be right back in just as soon as we’ve cuffed the Nats in September.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27143426

      CBI – London Events

      15 May 2014
      CBI London Council Bank of England Dinner (Invited Guests only)

    38. Ken500 says:

      The (UK) gov pension/welfare bill paid by taxpayers in Scotland, is £17Billion (not £27Billion). Nearly as bad as them.

    39. Thepnr says:

      Next up RGU their position is untenable, if you’ve not signed the petition yet sign it NOW.

      233 signatures needed:

      https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/robert-gordon-university-resign-from-the-cbi-in-order-to-express-neutrality-in-the-independence-debate

    40. scottish_skier says:

      If Scotland’s population grew by 1 million it’s population density would increase by just 1.18x and move from 50th place to 41st place in Europe (and selected countries bordering it), assuming zero population growth everywhere else of course.

      It’s population density would still be just 19% of England’s current density.

      You’d need to multiply Scotland’s population 6.2x to match England’s density, taking it from 5.3 to 32.6 million.

      Peter – are you ok with my wife living here? Does she present a problem to you because she’s ‘foreign’?

    41. RenateJ says:

      I tried to get into the BT Yvette Cooper meeting at EdenCourt Inverness this evening, but was told it was full to capacity with pre registered attendees, so sadly I couldn’t hear these lies from the horse’s mouth or challenge her on them. Interestingly, the majority there would be interested in pensions today and tomorrow and not in forty years time…. A far cry from the youthful cheerful crowds of YES gatherings

    42. Onwards says:

      @Peter,
      We are hardly overpopulated..
      Just open up google maps and look at the size of the place..

      We have almost two thirds the land area of England, yet only have 5.2 million population, compared to 53 million!

      Celtic Park holds 60,000 people, so you could fit the entire population of Scotland into 86 football stadiums.

    43. Sarah says:

      I received a UKIP leaflet through my door today for EU and I know many other people in the Glasgow area did too. It was full of thier lies and misinformation about immigration. No where does it mention that we need immigration to increase our tax revenues. I live in an area of Glasgow which has traditionally been very diverse. However, I have recently been disheartened by the amount of locals going around with UKIP badges on. When I’ve asked them why they have said it’s because there are too many foreigners here. They do not believe me when I tell them the facts and figures. All they go by is the fact that we have lots of neighbours who have moved here from other countries and don’t think of the bigger picture.

      I worry that headlines like this will just play into these misguided attitudes. I worry even more that it will stop people voting YES. I hope they are few and far between but it still worries me.

    44. caz-m says:

      That was quick, BBC Scotland resigns from CBI and I only posted the question on here a couple of minutes ago.

    45. manandboy says:

      Dinnae fash yersel’ aboot Independince – meaning ‘ don’t worry about what’s going to happen after Independence’.

      I remember bits of the 1950’s, dried powder in big tins, orange juice and cod liver oil. A banana was front page news and broccoli hadn’t been invented. Supermarkets were non existent; nobody except doctors had cars, the streets were empty and everyone wore grey, brown or black with a bunnet or a headscarf.

      Life in Independent Scotland won’t even come close to being as bad as the ’50’s.

      In fact, it’ll be a doddle.

    46. Nana Smith says:

      Sorry this is the what I meant to highlight

      RGU announces CBI membership suspension

      And Aberdeen’s Robert Gordon University has also “suspended” its membership of the CBI over the industry body’s stance on the Scottish independence referendum. In a series of messages on its official Twitter account, Robert Gordon University said: “Following extensive consultations, the Principal of RGU [Ferdinand von Prondzynski] has decided that we will suspend our CBI membership for the time being.

    47. Training Day says:

      @ Bill Walters

      Phew! That 5 month sabbatical from the CBI will go a long way to reassuring anybody doubting the impartiality of the BBC.

      Meantime I’m off to ‘suspend’ paying the Council Tax. I fully intend to start paying it again in October.

    48. TJenny says:

      caz-m – People Power. 🙂

      Thepnr – someone posted a link earlier to RGU’s CEO blog stating they had ‘suspended their membership’ until after indy. Don’t quite know how suspending compares with resigning though.

    49. Murray McCallum says:

      As I understand it BBC remain members of CBI until 30th May. They will then suspend their membership during the official referendum period.

      It’s an odd position to take.

    50. HorseHead says:

      Vote YES NOW and protect Scotland”s citizens from increasingly violent international crime gangs:
      ===========================================================

      Edinburgh Uzi shooting murder charge appeared in court, Mohamud Mohamud, 29, from London 22/4/14

      Man murdered in Edinburgh ‘gang gun battle’ as Mohammed Omar Abdi 27/5/13.

      Mohamud made no plea or declaration during the “PRIVATE” hearing and was remanded in custody.

      Police believe a car recovered in GLASGOW may be linked to the fatal street shooting.

      Detectives are linking the killing to incidents involving two groups of Somali gangs, between 6 and 10 men in the hours before his death, .

      http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/u/u/police-silver-ford-fiesta-found-in-glasgow-is-key-to-edinburgh-gang-killing.1370270673

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-name-man-murdered-edinburgh-1916465

      http://hiiraan.com/news4/2013/May/29585/edinburgh_gun_death_victim_chased_for_4_hours.aspx

      ps. UK/Scottish Police are out of their depth. They can’t cope with international drug gangs! It gets worse. USA police have Military Tanks as cop cars, to tackle drug crime and they’re failing.

    51. Training Day says:

      Blow for Salmond as he foolishly omits to have the option to ‘suspend’ membership of the Union on the ballot paper. Most Scots want the best of of both worlds, said Alistair Carmichael, and want to be in the Union but not in it.

    52. MajorBloodnok says:

      Yes yes HorseHead, Police Scotland should get some Sherman tanks. Not only are they excellent for community policing but, as Kenny Everett once pointed out, they solve the perennial problem of getting into tight parking spaces.

    53. TJenny says:

      Murray McCallum – does that mean that from now until 1st June, every time BBC introduce one of their reporters to interpret what’s been said by whom re indy, they will have to prefix it with, ‘from our BBC reporter. The BBC is a member of the No campaigning CBI.’?

      That would be a hoot. 🙂

      Anyway, still going to cancel my telly licence tomorrow.

    54. Dorothy Devine says:

      Hey ! Cornwall has been given a bit of autonomy!
      Like the ” Welsh and Scottish” it has minority status.

    55. scottish_skier says:

      Erm, Horseheid.

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-crime-at-lowest-levels-since-1974-1-2970094

      Scottish crime at lowest levels since 1974

      CRIME has fallen to a 39-year low, with homicide, violence and possession of an offensive weapon all down sharply in Scotland.

      Have you actually ventured outside recently? It’s fairly safe really.

      I went for bread and milk earlier and got back ok.

    56. caz-m says:

      @Thepnr

      Have RGU not resigned already from CBI?

      And the BBC only suspended it’s membership. I think that they should stay away from the CBI until Scotland officially becomes an Independent country, March 2016.

      And what about ITV, SKY and all the other TV broadcasters and radio stations.

    57. Jim T says:

      Re the BBC “suspending” it’s membership of the CBI, I posted this on the previous topic a couple of hours ago:

      I’m just wondering how you “suspend” your membership of a body such as the CBI (as per RGU action).

      I’ve never been aware of any professional body with whom I have, or have had, membership making that option available.

      “I smell shite” – as a well known actress is wont to say.

      That seems like some hastily cobbled together escape route for the terminally exposed, and I doubt very much if that even has a scintilla of corporate governance adhering strength to it.

      I only mention that because I suspect the BBC will adopt a similar position to RGU’s – and will be further eroding the CBI’s governance (such as it is).

      I’m still of the opinion that it’s all a prize fudge and won’t hold up against any examination of the CBI’s corporate governance.

    58. Thepnr says:

      Suspend means nothing! It is a sop to the furore created by the CBI announcement. To be truly impartial prior to the referendum they must resign.

      Another brilliant own goal by BT. Stop making it so easy, we no longer trust a word you say. You are only capable of spewing bullshit. Scots recognise BULLSHIT when they see it.

      Your days at the trough are numbered, the ordinary people have had enough and you will pay the piper on polling day.

    59. Murray McCallum says:

      TJenny

      I think the phrase you suggest for the BBC introductions is spot on. They do like to harp on about transparency and balance and all that.

      Shouldn’t the BBC Scotland executives recently questioned about bias at Holyrood be recalled to update the committee on their organisation’s membership of the CBI Better Together campaign?

    60. Andy-B says:

      Would Margaret Curran class these new people as furriners.

      Tories, We need more foreigners.

      Labour We’ll be swamped by to many foreigners.

      Margaret Curran, there’s furriners everywhere, Help!

    61. JLT says:

      Scotland’s population in 1707 was just over 1 million, while England’s was about 5 million. Even by 1750, England was still roughly 4 to 5 times the size of Scotland’s (Scotland 1.3 while England’s (with Wales) was 5.8).

      However, lets look at it over two centuries

      1800 – Scotland is 1.6 while England is 8.9. (in millions)
      1900 – Scotland is 4.5 while England is 41.6.

      Today – Scotland is 5.3 while England 50+

      Now …here is the real shocking statistic.

      If we remove all those folk who aren’t ‘born’ Scottish. Remove those who are English, Welsh, Irish, Indian, Pakistani, etc. The actual Scottish population that are ‘officially’ Scots is 4.4 million.

      Take a look at the population of 1900 again.

      Basically, the Scottish population has not grown at all for 100 years! You could knock off quarter of a million to half a million from the 1900 figure (for British who live in Scotland, along with other folk from the Empire). But it still means that our population has gone up just 500,000 in 100 years.

      Emigration to other parts of the UK, as well as emigration to places like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, America are the reasons why the Scottish population has failed to grow in 100 years thanks to War, Economic Blight and opportunities in all those other countries.

    62. haud on the noo says:

      So you “suspend” membership / do you get some money back or not ? You are either in it or not – suspension means bugger all.

    63. Murray McCallum says:

      I wonder what Professor John Robertson thinks of the BBC Scotland senior executives who were pleading total neutrality and criticizing typos in his report proving their bias?

      Turns out their employer was a paid up member of an official Better Together campaign organisation.

    64. Andrew Morton says:

      I suspect that Horse Head is a troll. Sounds like a kipper.

      Meanwhile, in other news, I have just been watching the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Political broadcast for the European Elections.

      It featured a young lady called Stephanie McIntosh who was interviewed in Princes Street Gardens as though she was an ordinary member of the public. She gave us her personal view that we are better together.

      Being of a nasty, suspicious turn of mind, I did a quick Google and discovered that the said Stephanie is in fact a previous Conservative Party candidate and works at KPMG. Such a happy coincidence that she was discovered in the gardens quite by chance and was prepared to be interviewed at such short notice.

    65. Andy-B says:

      @thepnr.

      Signed the RGU petition.

    66. Dan Watt says:

      The BBC et all shouldn’t resign/suspend their membership, they should be forced to declare as supporting Better Together instead, as they clearly are.

    67. David Agnew says:

      what a very UKIP way of looking at the world. Are to assume from these latest brainfarts from Bettertogether, that the unionist camp is now a campaign agent for UKIP?

      Is this parochial Union, now being cast as Royston Vasey, as good as it gets. Miserable wee fearties casting an angry eye at people who are not “local”?

      Christ its getting so bad, they’ve traded in their Scot Cringe for a Brit Cringe!

    68. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Peter HorseHeid

      Do you wear a Hoodie and harangue Yes stands?

      I think we need to be told.

      Fess up .

    69. caz-m says:

      We have got to keep this pressure up, brick by brick, whether it is the CBI or a UK government department, we are gradually bringing the British establishment to it’s knees and it feels good.

      Stay strong, we are winning this battle.

    70. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Is there an article in the Constitution of the CBI which allows member to suspend membership or, are we being fed another trailer of horse manure?

    71. Jim T says:

      @Bugger (the Panda)
      errm… see my 6.57 post above

    72. Derick says:

      I don’t often say this but could the troll be banned please.

    73. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @JimT

      Spot on.

    74. Jim T says:

      BtP Ta much 🙂

    75. Brian Powell says:

      So for the next 5 weeks the BBC is officially part of the No campaign.

    76. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Jim T
      Thanks

    77. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Brian Powell

      They always were.

    78. edulis says:

      Gregg McClymont and that Murray guy from Edinburgh are my two bete noirs in the Labour firmament. People will crown Davidson and Sarwar with that appelation but I put them in the joke category

    79. starlaw says:

      How can you suspend your membership from a club or other organisation, your either in or your out.
      I also remember the fifties when London buses were a unit of measurement and neeps were currency.

    80. Doug Daniel says:

      Between 1980 and 2013 Norway’s population increased by over a million. That’s not to say that would happen to us, but it shows it’s by no means a ridiculous idea.

      And that represented a 25% increase rather than less than 20%.

    81. fairiefromtheearth says:

      reading into what everybody is saying are we going to see newliverpool newnewcastle and so on for all these immegrants i mean cmon their is only so many houses in Scotland how many new towns do we need 20 40? but hey look on the bright side more jobs oh wait thats a bad thing in bts book 😉

    82. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @starlaw says:
      How can you suspend your membership from a club or other organisation, your either in or your out.

      Indeed.

      I commented over on the Scotsman website a few minutes ago as follows:-

      I have to laugh at the lemmings ‘suspending’ their membership of CBI.

      They still don’t get it.

      The CBI is now a tarnished brand, so why even consider re-joining?

      Also, how can any organisation sensibly re-join, when they know now that they will have to ‘suspend’ again the next time the CBI lose the plot and take sides in politics.

      It would be like doing the hokey-cokey ….

    83. NewportDee says:

      The big question is how do we get this analysis of the dross spouted by Labour into the mainstream media, who I’m sure are just itching to someone else to do a bit of investigative journalism on their behalf?

    84. caz-m says:

      Brian Powell,
      “So for the next 5 weeks the BBC is officially part of the No campaign”

      That is exactly what the BBC are. We have always known this, but the BBC have now made it official.

      We now have Labour, the Tories, Lib/Dems and the BBC in Better Together.

      All those team photographs of Better Together will need to be re-taken, so someone from the BBC can be added to the Bitter Together team photo.

      And if they are asked “are funding Better Together?”, they have got to say that they are.

    85. Thepnr says:

      This is the hokey-cokey referendum.

      In Out In Out shake it all about.
      Ohhhhh Yessii Yessii Yessii

      Where’s ronnie when you need him?

    86. galamcennalath says:

      I understand New Zealand has a wee bit of a problem with it’s ‘best people’ going off to work in Australia.

      2020, four years after Independence. Wil our booming economy be attracting England’s best people up here?

    87. heedtracker says:

      Lifting up that manky old union jack carpet to see what tries to scuttle away Reverend. This vote no Daily Record buffoonery’s a new one though “House of Commons library research shows Scotland’s working age population needs more than 24,000 migrants a year to keep pace with the rest of the UK.”

      With Crash Gordon, it’s his much trumpeted “unpublished internal Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) figures.” It’s like the lying racists don’t know you’re out there!

    88. heedtracker says:

      @ galamcennalath, not just England’s best, I know high skilled graduate Scots in OZ that are itching to come home asap.

    89. Croompenstein says:

      O/T – How Daniel Jackson sees us..

      I don’t want to alienate anyone who isn’t familiar with the term, so I’ll explain that a cybernat is an extraterrestrial being that has been sent to earth to ensure that Scotland becomes a social democratic sinkhole in the design of Uncle Alex Salmond. They do this through the medium of online message boards and social media

      He also thinks oor Alan is a fat bastirt..

      https://tinyurl.com/mtogszp

    90. Fiona says:

      I was pretty surprised that universities were members of the CBI: I am completely shocked to find that the BBC is.

      How can that be in any way impartial or neutral? In the looking glass world where we pretend that businessmen re not political and lobbying groups are objective?

      This is a disgrace on any terms.

    91. Clootie says:

      More time cleaning that bloody keyboard again – “foreigners coming to eat our babies”

      Horseheid
      Have you tried subtle.You may have to look it up I fear.

    92. HandandShrimp says:

      I am sure that Gordon would say that Greg was just some sort of bigoted man 🙂

    93. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @caz-m says:
      Brian Powell,
      “So for the next 5 weeks the BBC is officially part of the No campaign”

      So the numpties have made their next mistake.

      It is not acceptable for a publicly-funded body to be officially part of the NO Campaign for the next month.

      Feel free to get yourselves over the BBC online complaints webpage and tell them to get out of the CBI sharpish:-

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/complain-online/

    94. manandboy says:

      Can we be clear about the BBC.

      The Scottish Establishment is Unionist.

      The BBC is a part thereof.

      No other part of the Establishment eg the Electoral Commission, will rule against another member.

      Do not waste your breath.

    95. Thepnr says:

      @Croompenstein
      “Daniel Jackson is a firebrand libertarian.”

      He’s gonna get the fat cybernat treatment. Dick.

    96. lumilumi says:

      Sorry, haven’t read all the comments above so just responding to Rev Stu’s article ATL.

      As I see it, one of Scotland’s greatest and best exports over the centuries has been intelligent, well-educated, clever, skillfull people. Finland’s industrial revolution was kick-started by a Scot, FFS!

      Imagine what Scotland can do if most of the clever, well-educated, skillfull people stay in Scotland, an independent country full of new opportunities so you don’t need to emigrate for a career.

      So Scotland stops leeching native talent and starts attracting evermore non-native talent. You know, foreigners.

      All the unionist parties seem to have a problem with foreigners. Yer Liverpool nana becoming a foreigner and all that. The YES Scotland campaign has no problem. If you live and work in Scotland, you’re in.

      Independence is the way to counteract demographic challenges. Independence gives Scotland the tools to control non-EU immigration in a way that suits Scotland best.

      On a personal note, I see the difference in the mindset. My lovely English friends (I like them so much, bless them) like me but they just don’t get it. My Scottish and Irish and Australian and New Zealand and Canadian friends get it. Maybe that’s because if you’re not UK/English, you actually have to think about your identity.

      Sorry, long post.

    97. Croompenstein says:

      @Thepnr – I think I’m gonnae have to phone an ambulance as my sides have just split..

      On the way out of the pub, Tom, being the randy little goat that he is, tried to get the phone number of the girl working at the bar. I don’t know if he succeeded or not, but I watched as he tried to shake her hand. She was cleaning out a mug. He shook the mug. This five-second exchange was the most entertaining thing I saw all evening

    98. MajorBloodnok says:

      The thing is the BBC thinks it can do what it likes and is above suspicion.

      Well, to paraphrase a certain goon: “You know that saying ‘Caesar’s wife is above suspicion’? Well, the CBI put an end to all that rubbish.”

    99. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      I had a funny mental image there just now of Westminster in session, sounds of “Rhubarb, rhubarb, ORDAAAHHH!!!”, and the camera pans to outside, and we see the opening of “28 days later”, as everyone has buggered off up to Scotland…lol

      Now THAT would be extreme immigration problems – 60 odd million packed into a country with normally only 5 million, (and 650 in the rest of the UK.

      Anyway, we don’t want these immigrants over here, eating our jobs, stealing our women and making love to our dogs, with their odd surnames…err…

    100. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      manandboy says:
      Can we be clear about the BBC.
      Do not waste your breath.

      A wise man once told me that “the time to kick somebody is when they are down”.

      The BBC are on the run.

      Just sayin’

    101. Tattie-bogle says:

      Just lie lie lie lie lie
      O/T found out a few lecturer’s at college are well up for a YES vote who would have thunk it after jola and ruthie bleating on about college mergers.

    102. Fiona says:

      Complaint submitted as follows

      The BBC is a public broadcaster and it is funded by the license fee, in order to ensure its neutrality/impartiality. It is required to be so by its charter

      The CBI is a lobbying organisation on behalf of business and there is no sense in which that can be portrayed as apolitical

      I have noticed the change in the BBC’s coverage of business and economics over time but I had not realised that things had gone so far. I find myself now with strange bedfellows, for the discovery of this membership is the final straw. I have always valued a public service broadcaster free of political interference. The BBC no longer fits that description and so is not worthy of public support nor public funding. To that extent I now agree with Mr Murdoch: the BBC represents unfair competition.

      I never thought I would reach that conclusion, but it is inescapable. You have neither sense nor shame, in my opinion: you certainly have no idea what you are for.

    103. Tattie-bogle says:

      did someone on here or NNS not do a chart thingy about how Scotland’s population has been flatlined since 1900 no breed them out more like Emigrate them out.

    104. caz-m says:

      BBC Scotland need to be asked in live interviews and debates,

      “are the BBC funding Better Together”.

      Newsnight Scotland would be a good place to start tonight.

      Then GMS in the morning.

      Where is an investigative journalist when you need one.

      All those newspapers out there itching for a top selling story. Well now you have one, lets see what you do with it.

    105. Tattie-bogle says:

      fiona
      I was pretty surprised that universities were members of the CBI: I am completely shocked to find that the BBC is.

      THEY investigate themselves nothing to see move along please.

    106. caz-m says:

      Fiona 8.29pm

      Excellent letter to the beeb.

    107. HandandShrimp says:

      Mildly confused, I went to the Daniel Jackson thing wondering what the character from Stargate had to say about Scottish independence only to find some Muppet who has styled himself on Harry Enfield’s Tory Boy moaning about fuck all.

      A tad disappointing 🙁 I shall not make that mistake again

    108. Les Wilson says:

      The BBC should register as a NO support organisation, just like the CBI had to do. Anything else is a fudge, they ARE bias and proven to be so.

      They should register as such NOW not later or never, now. That is what we should be pushing, frame them into the window they really are caught in.

    109. lumilumi says:

      @the Major

      Aah, the beleaguered CBI…

      Imagine, them registering as a NO campaign group and then shedding lots of their membership… You cannot make it up.

      The NO campaign is such a shambles it’d be comedy if this referendum wasn’t so important.

      You couldn’t make it up. All their hypocracy and lies, and it’s only going to get worse.

      If, against all odds, they win, what does it tell about Scotland? A nation that is ashamed of itself, a cowed, pliant region of serfs.

      Vote NO and nevermore say you are a Scot. You’ll be North British.

    110. toshtastic says:

      Stu – are you sure its not an extra 1 Million? i.e. on average about an extra 28k a year

    111. Jim T says:

      @caz-m 8:31pm

      don’t hold yer breath. Ye’ll go a funny colour 🙁

    112. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @
      Fiona says:

      Best clubs, invite to Tiffen on the Terrace at H of C??

    113. TJenny says:

      Does anyone know whether St. Andrew’s and/or Stirling Unis are members of the CBI as I don’t see them on the BBC website’s list of those who have resigned from CBI.

    114. ronnie anderson says:

      @Scottish Skeir 6.39,get your own back round your figures down by two Horses Arse & Peter the Tool,couple of fekin trollies.

    115. Croompenstein says:

      @lumilumi

      Vote NO and nevermore say you are a Scot. You’ll be North British

      Our wee nation has survived through worse than this referendum and will continue in the event of a No. I cannot countenance a no vote as it will make me ashamed of my countrymen, not my country. Our ancestors and those who kept the nation alive through the worst of times are watching us now. I was born a Scot and that will continue but it will be a very hard pill to swallow if it’s a no(not that I am thinking it will)

    116. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Brian Powell, my thoughts exactly. We can all now state on every HYS or any BBC reference that they are officially part of the no campaign and they are just suspending things dyrung en legally forced to do so.

    117. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      2 ronnie anderson

      already sorted

    118. Fiona says:

      @ TJenny

      St Andrews????

      *shudders*

      Don’t you know the CBI are in trade !

    119. Sparckus says:

      Hi,

      First time poster 🙂

      @Calgacus MacAndrews

      Submitted complaint to BBC and threatened to report them to Ofcom if they didn’t revoke their CBI membership immediately.

    120. ronnie anderson says:

      @Thepnr you,s know am allways aboot keekaboo

    121. haud on the noo says:

      The BBC status as “suspended” is utterly untenable – they cannot, in any sense, pretend to be impartial if they are funding a body which promotes the NO campaign.

      Bloody furious about this.

    122. caz-m says:

      I think we should get Panorama to investigate the CBI for us,

      Oh wait a minute, we cannae, a forgot.

      Then what about Glen Campbell, he’s always creepin about, digging shit up,

      oh we cannae get him either.

    123. Ian Brotherhood says:

      If no-one else fancies doing it I’ll start the petition via change.org. It would be ideal if it was a ‘WOS’ petition but Rev’s enough on his plate and I’m too scared to ask. 😀

      Question – the petition needs to be addressed to an individual, so who’s best? The DG in London, or Boothman? Or someone else?

      If anyone knows of a petition ongoing please let me know before I create another one, thus diluting the impact of both.

    124. TJenny says:

      Fiona – so are Kate Middleton’s family, and she’s ex St. Andrew’s.

      What about Stirling though, given the strong unionist bent of its Council?

    125. StevieMcB says:

      @Calgacus

      Compliant sent

      As a licence payer I am appalled at the anti independence stance of the corporation, whom I have trusted and relied on for impartial reporting & information all my life.. no more

      The BBC has stated that it is suspending its membership of the CBI for the period of the referendum but not starting till the official political campaigns begin. this is ridiculous, The BBC should immediately resign from this No supporting group. Also prove your impartiality & start reporting the real mood of Scotland.

    126. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      The BBC can be IN or OUT.

      only

      It is a bit like being pregnant, yes or No.

      Nae half in and half oot, unless they are in the suspended animation business.

    127. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Brian Powell, my thoughts exactly. We can all now state on every HYS or on any BBC reference that they are officially part of the no campaign. Also that they are only suspending things because they have been legally forced to do so.

      At no point in the statement they gave have they said they disagree with CBIs position. They therefore support it.

      All BBC reports in the last few years and their regular citing of CBI as representing Scottish business should be seriously questioned at every opportunity.

      The BBC have only stated they will protect appearance of neutrality, not that they are neutral.

    128. ronnie anderson says:

      @Lumilumi,If you have any intensions of coming back to Scotland,you had better get your skates on, or we’re gonna be full up.

    129. Complaint duly sent, but as usual I don’t expect any sensible reply, just the usual waffle. And as I have said before, as John Reith said, “They, the Government, (Westminster) know that we don’t have to be impartial, really”. And true to form, the present D.G, Tony Hall,l said the same thing last year in Edinburgh.

    130. Thepnr says:

      @lumilumi

      If, against all odds, they win, what does it tell about Scotland?

      Two points, if Yes is the victor it will have been “against all odds” The No side are favorites.

      Second point when Scotland votes Yes it will tell the world, we are ready for a new future that includes all it’s people. Not just those who by luck of birth believe that it “belongs” to them.

    131. Greannach says:

      Peter and Horse head appear to be a pair of trolls trying to see if anyone agrees with them. The examples quoted feature criminals with Muslim names, presumably to convince us that only Muslims commit crimes and to suggest they are ‘foreigners’. Do they think we’re daft enough to fall for that? I think they’d be better trolling around a BNP website.

    132. ronnie anderson says:

      @Ian Brotherhood How about X heid bummer of the former colony of Hong Kong Lordy Lord Paten he’s the heid of the trust.

    133. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      As I said before up there summwhere, they seem like the type who wear hoodies, harass and harangue YES stalls in the Edinburgh and are more than a bit sub.

    134. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Scratcher type

      Byeeeeee

    135. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @ronnie anderson –

      Good shout.

    136. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      TIME

      buger!

    137. caz-m says:

      The penny just dropped there.

      It is actually US who are funding Better Together.

      The BBC are using OUR money to fund a Campaign that is against Scottish Independence.

      If every other organisation withdrew from the CBI with immediate effect, then there is nothing stopping the BBC from doing the exact same thing.

      BBC, RESIGN FROM THE CBI NOW!

    138. ronnie anderson says:

      @Ian brotherhood ah didna shout ah jist typed as ah normaly dey wie spelling mistooks, mind 2 tt in lordies name.

    139. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Bugger not buger!

      It is Friday, somewhere in the World; hopefully, possibly?

    140. Boorach says:

      It is a nonsense for the state broadcaster to be a member of what is essentially an employer’s/political lobbying association on two counts.

      Firstly, when that organisation openly declares support for any side (and the CBI invariably supports the tories) in a political contest it means that the broadcaster is actively involved in that campaign and therefore unable to present any neutral coverage of the campaign.

      Secondly, in any industrial dispute the organisation (almost invariably) expresses support for the employers meaning that the state broadcaster by supporting the organisation is unable to present a balanced view of the dispute.

      Any state broadcaster, supported by public funding, should be a stand-alone organisation with no affiliations to ANY other body.

    141. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      caz-m

      The BBC is a self contained campaign, p[aid by us, against Scottish Independence.

    142. EphemeralDeception says:

      CBI could still be in legal hot water. Business for Scotland has a great article on the current status:
      businessforscotland.co.uk/business-for-scotland-challenges-the-cbi-to-come-clean/

    143. Hugh Wallace says:

      Should the vote go No then Scotland is going to lose this educated Scot to New Zealand. I might have to wait for some relatives to pop their clogs first but I am definitely going. I have been debate re-emigrating to NZ for years. Being half Kiwi and spending much of my childhood there that country has always got a bit of a hold on me though I feel 100% Scottish. I vowed that if we get a Yes vote I will remain here and help make this country great but if we are too stupid to take the chance I am deserting this sinking ship. Sorry folks!

    144. cynicalHighlander says:

      The BBC should now refund all Yes supporters their licence fee.

    145. lumilumi says:

      @Croompeinstein

      Surviving the referendum storm…

      But if it’s a NO, powers will be taken away from Holyrood to make sure there will never ever again be an independence referendum, and the English, sorry UK, parliament in Westmister will do their best to bring the uppity natives in Scotchland to heel.

      Vote NO and you will be North British. That’s what North Brithish Gordon Brown wants and advocates.

      [my sentiments and words about Gordon Brown are unpublishable, so just use your imagination]

    146. Kenny says:

      I just submitted my complaint to the BBC saying that it was clearly unacceptable to be funding the CBI, never mind not distancing itself from the political line. I also pointed out that STV had resigned and wasn’t that the only appropriate course? At the same time, I asked what measures they take to ensure neutrality outside the News & Current Affairs bubble, e.g. with “Borderlands” or Tom Morton’s wee piece for the Guardian.

      I’d be all for a petition. Really, it needs to go to the DG. A good-sized petition and/or a flood of complaints will force them to climb down before the regulated campaign starts and that’s what is needed. Once the BBC is forced to do something because its bias is so obvious, it can be used to chip away at their credibility right up to September 18th. After it’s all over, we can just sack them all and start from scratch in that nice big glass box.

    147. ronnie anderson says:

      Bugger the panda 9.06.it a bit like being pregnant

      half in half oot, is that wain on a bungie cord

      I name the wain YoYo. lol

    148. Fiona says:

      @ Boorach

      Precisely. This is wider than the referendum. Like a lot of other things, it is the referendum campaign which has taught us the facts. Whatever the outcome that knowledge remains. And that is a good thing in itself

    149. Porty Tam says:

      O/T

      At the Scottish Highland Renewable Energy Conference today in Inverness a ballot on the referendum question produced the following result…

      YES 39% No 61%.

      Not bad for 180 delegates composed of highly paid solicitors and other professionals, bankers and wind farm developers and a proportion of English participants.

      Wall to wall ABs in fact.

      When asked who would be better for renewable industry they voted 56% Independent Scotland – 44% UK

    150. Fiona says:

      At the Scottish Highland Renewable Energy Conference today in Inverness a ballot on the referendum question produced the following result…

      YES 39% No 61%.

      Not bad for 180 delegates composed of highly paid solicitors and other professionals, bankers and wind farm developers and a proportion of English participants.

      Wall to wall ABs in fact.

      When asked who would be better for renewable industry they voted 56% Independent Scotland – 44% UK …..

      and then their heads exploded. Was it messy?

    151. Croompenstein says:

      @lumilumi – I hear what you’re saying but what we have to understand is that our people have been drip fed the notion that we are indeed one nation(UK). It’s extraordinary that we are even at this point where, for the first time, our country has the chance to exercise democracy and vote for our future. As I mentioned we have those who have gone before us to thank for that and I hope and pray we vote Yes.

      But I can understand, though for me it is incomprehensible, why some of my countrymen will vote No but I don’t think it would spell the end of Scotland or our movement it has become bigger than all of us.

    152. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Okay, here it is. If others are already on the go, so be it…more the merrier.

      https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-patten-chairman-bbc-trust-cancel-bbc-membership-of-the-cbi

    153. Ian Brotherhood says:

      PS I don’t do Facebook. Can someone please get it out there?

    154. Les Wilson says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:

      I would be up for that Ian!

      For others out there sending complaints to the BBC, send by all means, but just expect their normal reply. They are well practiced at it.

      As Ian suggests a petition signed by many would be much harder for them to swerve. They will swerve it, as they are pro’s at it, but we could make life a tad uncomfortable for them, especially if we unite in doing so.

    155. Fiona says:

      Signed

    156. Croompenstein says:

      Well done Ian – signed

    157. Porty Tam says:

      To their credit the main speakers confronted the independence question square on. David Bone and Jeremy Sainsbury were scathing of the coalition stance on renewables in Scotland and how it was damaging investment in renewables.

      Savills (land agent to the landed gentry)produced formulaic better together drivel.

    158. mr thms says:

      The CBI Scotland Referendum website clearly shows support for Scotland remaining in the UK. As the BBC has not resigned, and since the suspension period does not commence until 30th May 2014, how can the BBC, as a member of the CBI, avoid being associated with that website’s message?

    159. caz-m says:

      Bugger (the Panda)

      I know, this funding question of who is paying for Better Together is getting crazy.

      If you really think about this, the YES Campaign is actually funding the Better Together Campaign, through our License fees.

      So if Better Together declare who is funding them, then they could say the YES Campaign helps fund their cause.

    160. Les Wilson says:

      Ian
      Signed

      Come on you lot get signing! Spread on twitter and facebook wherever you can, let’s make our BBC protest now!

    161. Boorach says:

      Signed

    162. Les Wilson says:

      REV
      How’s about putting a block on the front page with the link to Ian’s petition?
      It is a worthwhile cause, if big enough it is sure to cause embarrassment at the very least. Let’s get together and get to it.?

    163. Murray McCallum says:

      I’ve signed the petition and sent off a complaint to the BBC.

      I wonder if we will get standard replies that do not actually address our complaints?

    164. schrodingers cat says:

      re-HorseHead………. see horsesArse

      O/T dear thepnr
      can you remind me closer to the time, memory like a sieve

      i had a diary once……..but lost it

    165. TJenny says:

      Signed, and I WILL suspend my DD for my telly licence from tomorrow, until after indy. (After that, well, we’ll see, if there’s an SBC) Currently, I am not prepared to fund BT via telly fee. 🙁

    166. Thepnr says:

      Ian signed.

      ……………………,,-~*~,,
      …………………../:.:.:.:.:.|
      ………………….|;.;.;.;.;./
      ………………….|.;.;.;.;.|
      …………._,,,,,_.).;.;.;.;.|
      ………,,-“:.:.:.:.”~-,;.;.;.|
      ……..(_,,,,—,,_:.:.);.;.;..”,,
      ……,-“:.:.:.:.:.””-,,/;.;.;.;.;.”,
      …..(:.__,,,,,,,,,___);.;.;.;.;.;|
      …../””:.:.:.:.:.:.:¯””\;.;.;.;.;.,”
      ….\”,__,,,,,,,,,,,__/;;;;;;;;;/\
      …..\.::.:.:.:.:.:.:.;.);;;;;;;;;/:\
      …….\,,,,,—~~~~;;;;;;;;,”::::\
      ……….”””~~–,,,,,,,,,,-“::::::::::\
      ……………….\::::::::::::::::::::::\

    167. cearc says:

      Well done, Ian.

      Signed.

    168. Hugh Wallace says:

      Signed!

    169. P G McLaughlin says:

      Signed and complaint sent.

    170. Thepnr says:

      @schrodingers cat

      Of course, will do. I plan on a few reminders up the the party date 🙂

    171. Nana Smith says:

      Signed!

    172. ronnie anderson says:

      Signed

    173. Tam Jardine says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      Signed. Nice one. Following a Yes there will be an outpouring from politicians keeping schtum for now I hope. Rip it up and start again as far as I am concerned, and somehow make the SBC accountable to the people and impartial. As it won’t be controlled by the london media class and the rotten cabal at the top, and will be a fraction of the size, it could be a great force for unity, particularly in the first few years.

      C4 seem to manage a modern news program that isn’t afraid to take politicians from all sides to task – it is the only one I watch outside of (for wont of a better term) bias porn late at night on bbc and stv.

    174. Les Wilson says:

      Lets keep it going, spread the word every blog everywhere, lets make this Scotland’s protest against the BIAS BBC.

    175. Kestral says:

      Actually couple some immigration with some retention of our own children ie a reversal of brain drain achieved by ensuring we attract high tech investment/research to the country

      http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/05/28141101/6

      I am sure a lot of mothers in Scotland would be so much happier that their children are not compelled to leave our country in search of work

      and hey ho you achieve working to pensioner ratio you need

      problem solved

    176. Jamie Arriere says:

      Signed

    177. JGedd says:

      Also signed.

    178. StevieMcB says:

      Signed

      O/T Whitehall civil servants have been making vile edits on Wikipedia about Hillsborough
      Liverpool Echo

      Evil to the core

    179. bunter says:

      Just watching disreporting North Britainshire with wee sally and now onto the story aboot a wee sea eagle and still no mention that the state broadcaster will be officially biased till May 30th.

      Heres the weather noo LOL

    180. bunter says:

      In a new development on the officially biased till May 30th, state broadcaster website, Ed will make a case, er Ed case, that everyone north and south of the border will be worse off if we don’t vote the right way.

    181. CameronB says:

      That’s two posts not appeared. Test. 😉

    182. schrodingers cat says:

      wings needs its own outside broadcasting unit

      moving images are too powerful to ignore

      the yes camp needs its own

      we cannot count on the bbc’s impartaility

      time we stepped up to the mark

      do it rev

    183. CameronB says:

      @ The Electoral Commission
      Wakey! Wakey! You’re not dreaming. Scotland’s democracy is actually being MONSTER-ED!

    184. Tony Little says:

      Iain

      signed

    185. msean says:

      I always thought that Labour came up with the bedroom tax idea originally,then the Tories extended it.

    186. Fergus Green says:

      Signed

    187. annie says:

      Rhona doing well on Scotland Tonight, didn’t let Evette Cooper have it all her own way going by her face at the end of the interview.

    188. Mary Bruce says:

      61% of renewables industry delegates voted no? Jeez, do they not realise that there will be no renewables industry in the uk if the Tories have their way?

      Regards horsehead the troll, could they be the kilted kelpie unionist troll on twitter who also is a horsehead?

      Ian, have signed and will tweet the link.

    189. dramfineday says:

      Thank you Ian – signed.

    190. annie says:

      Ian – signed

    191. Training Day says:

      Signed.

      There is no place for the BBC in Scotland. Its presence is a source of ongoing shame.

    192. schrodingers cat says:

      how much does having a full sound and video crew full time at our disposal cost?

      we will not get a fair crack at the whip, anyone who has followed the bc story will know this
      is it alba TV who tried to televise the recent Irvine debate?
      does anyone have a contact?
      if the rev wont pursue this
      I will
      please post any links you have

    193. Annibale says:

      Signed!

    194. Croompenstein says:

      Best of both worlds, pooling and sharing, uncertainty, part of something bigger, family of nations, strong ties, blah blah f*ckin blah!!! my head is exploding.. and Ed is just going to repeat this pish tomorrow..aarrgghh

    195. lumilumi says:

      Hey,@ Ronnie @9.08

      I’ve got me skates on, and better than most Scots skater I am.

      I’m also a formidable cross-country (trackless wilderness) skier.

      I was going to immigrate to Scotland by now but family things keep me in Finland (daddy with cancer).

      Aww, I’m going to miss referendum day.

      Just make sure you make it happen, your real one chance.

    196. kendomacaroonbar says:

      signed

    197. Flower of Scotland says:

      Ian

      Signed

    198. caz-m says:

      Petition Signed.

    199. CameronB says:

      I reckon Ed will make reference to ‘One Nation’, in the third sentence, tomorrow. ‘Pulling and Sharing’ in the fourth. 🙂

    200. CameronB says:

      ‘Poolling and Sharing’. Doh. 😉

    201. memaw says:

      Signed the petition.

    202. Mealer says:

      Is the Clydesdale bank in the CBI/Better Together?

    203. pr1mate says:

      Another great piece of disection and commentary wings. I award you my highest level of.

    204. Tam Jardine says:

      O/T Alastair Carmichael on Scotland Today (stv local edinburgh news section)… walking through a glade of snowdrops for no purpose. Is it just me? Am I having some kind of psychotic episode? Where did this footage come from and is there more of it?

    205. kendomacaroonbar says:

      @ Cameron

      You were half right first time.

      It’s Pulling & Shearing 🙂

    206. Jeannie says:

      Signed

    207. caz-m says:

      Evette Cooper was pathetic. She must think Scotland has no telly’s or internet.

      Tell those Scot’s any shit, we have been doing it for years and it works a treat, never fails.

      Well those days are over, we will not listen to Labour lies anymore. You have lost the trust of Scottish Labour voters.

      So Ed, F**k off back to London. You can pool and share your crips and ginger with wee Evette and the rest of that Shadow cabinet on the train hame.

    208. ronnie anderson says:

      @Lumilumi,It has been a while since we posted, I,m sorry to hear Your Dad is poorly, please give him my regards and will be thinking of our Friends in Finland, lots of Luv to You and Your Family.

    209. awayanbileyerheed says:

      @schrodingers cat It was ClanDestiny Films, youtube link:
      http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFrVk-gs6vQ6lxNoBFlpOLw/videos

    210. Kalmar says:

      Haha direct dig at Wings there from Jackie Bailey on newsnight..

    211. Croompenstein says:

      FFS Jackie Baillie – nightmares tonight 🙁

    212. call me dave says:

      Signed petition.

      Cancelled my TV license last year. Getting hassle but no knock on the door…yet.

    213. call me dave says:

      Licence. I always do that.

    214. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Signed

    215. call me dave says:

      Have you seen this. Posted full link

      Headline.

      Labour MP’s video ‘most embarrassing of all time’

      http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/labour-mp-s-video-most-embarrassing-of-all-time-1-3387647

    216. Mealer says:

      Email your bank and ask them if they’re members of the CBI.Please.Itll take no more than two minutes.Or phone your branch.

    217. mogabee says:

      Thanks Ian, signed and tweeted.

    218. Devereux says:

      Signed !

    219. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @call me dave –

      Good stuff mister. I tried linking to that in an earlier thread, but failed.

      Donohoe must think he’s a gemmy. He’s not.

      He’s a nob, and a total brassneck for the whole of Ayrshire.

      He invites feedback? I hope he gets it – by the shovelful.

    220. CameronB says:

      Only three more names needed. 🙂

    221. rab_the_doubter says:

      Signed – Can’t wait to see the grovelling apology on the News. However I’m 49 years old so I probably won’t live that long.

    222. willie fae kilwinning says:

      Signed.

    223. Papadox says:

      Yvette Cooper on Scotland tonight,
      ignorant, arrogant, patronising and condescending. She obviously wasn’t very pleased she had to “perform” for the natives. (Born Inverness).

      Jackie Baillie on newsnight Scotland,
      thoroughly nasty piece of work and proud of it.

      These two would make a saint swear.

    224. caz-m says:

      Why did Newsnight Scotland end the programme showing you tomorrow’s Daily Telegraph newspaper headlines which has absolutely nothing to do with Scotland.

      Surely somebody inside Pacific Quay is starting to doubt the pish that they call news is not frightening the natives anymore.

      I honestly think they have their conscience removed the day they start working for BBC Scotland.

    225. G. Campbell says:

      ALL YOUR TORRENT ARE BELONG TO US

      Creative industries leaders on why the CBI matters

      Andrew Scadding, the BBC’s head of corporate and public affairs comment on the lobbying organisation’s work in raising the profile of the sector to government and its campaign to protect Intellectual Property and combat web piracy.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xszx9U_lJCs#t=83

    226. CameronB says:

      I would imagine advancement in the Ministry of Truth a.k.a. the BBC, requires the employee to be full conversant with the principles of doublthink, and to be fluent in blackwhite dukspeak. I would imagine that could be quite a dehumanizing experience, unlikely to promote moral consciousnesses.

      Will the BBC un-suspend their CBI membership, once the CBI stops supporting Britain?

    227. gordoz says:

      Yvette Cooper and the Labour party; do you think their cunning plan ‘pooling & sharing’ in Project Fear parlance translates as smoke and mirrors Trick No 1 – ‘Fooling & Scaring’ ?

    228. Morag says:

      Surely “pooling and sharing” means someone is getting “something for nothing”. Can’t have that, surely!

    229. heedtracker says:

      Afore ye hit the sack, here in ABZ the Press and Journal’s RGU UKOK hero of the hour is interviewed so here’s a snippet from the mindset of one more nutty Professor, Ferdinand von Prondzynski (yes really) and its not an interview, more a statement of intent. So under Fit Like Times headline, “CBI wrong taking sides-but this is not a problem of our making”

      “I have no doubt this was a wrong(CBI) decision” some stuff about the debate then the kicker “Equally we need to be sure that we are both remaining neutral in the debate but that we also provide A SAFE SPACE for both sides in the debate. These are the principles that we will apply as we move to decide how we should respond to the CBI move”

      So that was Robert Gordon University wacademic reasoning this morn here in Aberdeen. We are taking your tax money and paying giving it to UKOK BetterTogether via the CBI but this does not mean we are taking sides, only providing safe space for both sides. Academics eh? Don’t have nightmares Scotland.

    230. caz-m says:

      Are the whole of the UK Labour Party contracted to use the phrases, “pool and Share” and “best of both worlds” in every comment they make about Scottish Independence.

      Do you think Ed will slip them into his speech tomorrow.

      And Jackie Bailey, please don’t let her anywhere near our shiny new Independent Scottish Parliament.

    231. Truth says:

      O/T

      Was at Yes Hamilton meeting at University of West Scotland tonight.

      Apologies about the language, but Nicola was out-fucking-standing.

      Delivered a professional, passionate, positive and engaging vision of what Scotland could, should and must be, and then fielded question after question from undecideds. Probably covered 30 very good and non-loaded questions from genuine people.

      Hall was packed out with about 12 rows of 20 people, so 250 or so attendees.

      A good many women attended and were encouraged, and indeed, did take part. I’d guess they fielded at least half the questions. Questions were all actual questions and no statements from committed yes or no voters as I’ve seen at previous such events.

      I got the impression the undecideds are desperate to vote yes, they are just scared.

      All in, a fantastic night.

    232. HandandShrimp says:

      Heedtracker

      That is a bizarre statement and if the CBI wanted to create a safe space why did it not join both camps? 🙂

    233. Lobeydosser says:

      @Iain B.
      Signed too and shared, ditched the licence a good while ago thankfully and not regretted it for a second. Cheers everyone.You all make the bad days good.

    234. As CBI is a Tory front political campaigning organisation, is this farce of ‘suspending’ certain members such as the BBC going to apply before every election? What about the euro election? The Westminster General election? The EU in/out referendum?

      No organisation in receipt of public funds should be a member of any such body as the CBI. Wonder what the BBC membership fee amounts to?

      Well done to BfS for their efforts on this.

    235. ronnie anderson says:

      You could,na whack it wie a stick

      You could,na dent it wie a brick

      in heid in arse I know not whitch

      in a former life, as in this

      this wummins a fuckin Witch.

    236. lumatrix says:

      Signed and FB

    237. call me dave says:

      Pasting information from John King on a previous thread.
      I’m going, mainly to listen to Ivan, hope you can attend if you live close enough.

      Calling all Fifers

      This Friday 25th April Benarty Centre (Ballingry) @7pm. Doesn’t matter what side of the fence you are on you need to come to this referendum meeting. Speaking representing the Green Party is former Scottish tv news reader Louise Bachelor. Morgwn Davies for NHS Scotland. And for me the ace in the pack Ivan McKee from “Business Scotland”. Very importantly for me is Ivan is non-political and doesn’t represent any political party. After scrutinising the facts in a business manner. He tries to simplify it so everyone understands things like the economy, trading and sterling etc. Ivan only deals in facts and not scaremongering stories. When this man talks everybody should down tools too listen. He’s handed out a few bloody noses on tv to critic’s and those trying to scaremonger again only using facts. He’s here on your doorstep giving out advice and answering questions free of charge. I think we all have a duty to be there and listen to these people.

    238. lumatrix says:

      Aaaaargh – used the wrong email to log in – Sorry to Mod.

    239. heedtracker says:

      @ HandandShrimp, its not the CBI though, its the Head of RGU Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski explaining why RGU was sticking with CBI, this morning. I know how stupid I am, I just don’t like smart guys assuming I am really that much of a dope and if I was Professor Ferdinand von Prondzynski, I’d currently be considering my position and applying for the position of temp catering assistant at RGU ref, which he wouldn’t get.

    240. bookie from hell says:

      ed milliband

      BT for zero votes

      guardian

      Zero hour contracts not controlled if Scotland votes YES

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/24/zero-hours-contracts-scotland-independence-ed-miliband

    241. Molly says:

      Heard Eamonn O Neil /Stewart Cosgrove review the ‘ big stories’ today on John Beatties show. Both reckoned the CBI must have ran this past Better Together before registering with the EC .Both were surprised at the apparent lack of thought regarding possible outcomes.

      Does make you wonder if the Better Together gang do realise what a sleeping giant , they’ve woken up?

    242. Mary Bruce says:

      @ Morag: ‘Surely “pooling and sharing” means someone is getting “something for nothing”.’

      An excellent tweet sized comment, consider it stolen.

    243. Aidan says:

      @Ian
      Signed

    244. Kenny says:

      I just watched Newsnight. That was a dreadful response from Blair Jenkins on the CBI question. He needed to say that while the suspension was welcomed, he couldn’t understand why it wasn’t immediate because it leaves the BBC open to accusations of bias. That’s actually the important thing here. The BBC has to be seen to be free of bias, not just actually free of bias. I have little doubt that most of the journalists there are as honest as they can be and I know for a fact that there are Yes supporters in there, but the appearance of bias is still immensely damaging.

      On that note, I did hear that the NUJ at Pacific Quay is not happy…

    245. GrahamB says:

      Signed and shared with ten others with potential for them to spread it further. Internet beats MSM any day of the week, suspect the NAWs must be starting to realise that now but if we can cut off the bias from radio and TV we’ll put their gas at a peep.

    246. Jack Beck/Scotus says:

      Fir gawd’s sake fowk –

      Bias is the noun – eg “the BBC exhibits bias”, while biased is the adjective – eg “the biased BBC’.

      Get them telt Rev!

    247. CameronB says:

      According to Steve Ballinger, a combination of leading think-tanks feel Britain’s political elites need to adopt an ‘honest populism’, when talking about the immigration issue. So Ed’s promise to tighten immigration controls doesn’t actually have anything to do with socialism. It’s all about attracting the less well-off to vote Labour, ’cause they will make sure British jobs are for British workers. Or something like that.

      http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/populism-have-the-politicians-got-the-message/

      Talking about the English and Englishness, here are some belters for you.

      http://www.britishfuture.org/articles/english-and-scots-differ-over-europe-says-redwood/

      O/T but relevant to the north/south divide.

      It looks like we could probably expect a Transpennine rail upgrade, before HS2 is linked to Scotland. Talk about unfair economic competition,

      We need to go beyond HS2 and build a Liverpool-Leeds rail link
      A high-speed rail connection between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds would be transformative for the north.

      This issue is even more pressing in light of the economic importance of bringing businesses closer together – so-called “agglomeration economics”. Nowadays, economic growth seems increasingly to be driven by large urban hubs where workers and businesses in close proximity compete, collaborate and copy each other much more intensively than they otherwise would do. Mixing in these ways drives innovation and productivity gains. As Evan Davies explained in his recent documentary Mind The Gap, London benefits from these “economies of distance” in a way that other parts of the country do not – and it is powering Britain’s economic recovery as a result.

      http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/we-need-go-beyond-hs2-and-build-liverpool-leeds-rail-link

      One Nation, eh?

    248. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Mary Bruce says:
      @ Morag: ‘Surely “pooling and sharing” means someone is getting “something for nothing”.’

      At the risk of repeating one of my old jokes:

      I thought ‘pulling and sharing’ was what they got up to at the Better Together Swingers Club.

    249. JLT says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      That’s me signed, mate.

    250. bunter says:

      What curious and gung ho journalist will ask Miliband to explain in detail the devo nano proposals. Will he take any questions at all, or give interviews?

    251. Croompenstein says:

      @Hugh Wallace @9:30 I vowed that if we get a Yes vote I will remain here and help make this country great but if we are too stupid to take the chance I am deserting this sinking ship. Sorry folks!

      I can defo see where you’re coming from as it will be a shameful weight for Scots if it’s no. But the shame will follow us wherever we go and those of us who can’t up sticks we will have to stay and fight on against the shame. I just can’t even countenance what a no vote will do to us.

    252. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Only 3more needed

    253. Tam Jardine says:

      @ Morag

      “Pooling and sharing” is all well and good – trouble comes when it’s all pooled down south. That part of it they have mastered.

      Another one of these glib BT phrases, “the best of both worlds” is a corker. A parliament down south that controls the big national areas like defence, foreign policy, taxation and welfare which we have no control over; and a parliament up here that represents the people but only controls health care, education and more local matters. How is that the best of both worlds?

      Still waiting for a single solitary voice from abroad looking to hook up with the union when we ditch it. No takers? Surely if it is such a barry arrangement someone would want in. Belgium or Norway parliament could ditch resolving the big important issues of state and take care of more domestic things, and send some MPS to Westminster? Anyone? Isle of Man? Hello?

    254. Macandroid says:

      Signed last night.

    255. CameronB says:

      Although Sunder Katwala is the director of British Future, previously worked as a journalist and was general secretary of the Fabian Society, he see the first ever democratic test of the Union as only one of several political events this year.

      http://studentjournals.co.uk/2014/03/tsj-talks-to-sunder-katwala/

    256. Another Union Dividend says:

      BBC Radio Scotland at 8.50 discussing Ed Miliband’s call to vote Labour rather than YES to change things.

      BBC RADIO SCOTLAND MORNING CALL
      Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.
      Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

      Read this resume of Miliband http://wingsoverscotland.com/you-cant-make-this-stuff-up/

    257. Hammett96 says:

      Petition signed Ian. What gets me is would the BBC just have kept quiet on the whole membership affair if the general public had never been made aware they are members of CBI? Their morales would have been (I should say are) in the toilet

    258. Muscleguy says:

      @Ravellin

      Well I left aged 6 to New Zealand, came back aged 27 with a full education to PhD level to England then moved up here 5 years later. Our NZ born kids grew up here, one is still here, working. My English born wife is here too. Mind you 6 of our family (3 born here) left for NZ and only I have come back. So Scotland is still -3 but 3 of them are immigrants anyway (parents, eldest sibling). So all is actually net. These things are complex 😉

    259. ronnie anderson says:

      Just caught the tail end of a radio Interview with Ed Milliband, ( we’re one christmas away from a Labour Government )either we’re no getting a vote, or Santa,s gone Political ( that red nose on Him & Rudolf should hiv geid us the warning ).

    260. john king says:

      Peter says
      “Scotland is OVERPOPULATED! Too many people for the land to sustain. You can be as wishy washy leftie liberal as you like but mass immigration is and always has been a disaster for every country to suffer it.”

      How Many People Live in Belgium Right Now?
      Based on the most recent estimates, the current population is projected as:
      11,098,609million
      area in kilometres 30.528 SQUARE/KILOMETRES
      gdp £420.307billion

      Scotland 5.295million
      area in kilometres 78.782 SQUARE/KILOMETERS
      gdp £148,781,billion

      In other words
      DONT TALK SHITE!

    261. Robert Kerr says:

      Signed.

      Sorry for being late.

    262. Krackerman says:

      How much of that area is flat though mate – Belgium all of it… Scotland perhaps not so much….

      Just sayin.

    263. Lanarkist says:

      Ian, petition signed, I will circulate it on twitter and FB.

      Good work, let’s make them squirm.

    264. john king says:

      Toots Capoot
      “Sorry to go off topic but was just googling about the upcoming Euro elections and noticed the (all too frequent these days) mistake, when referring to the SNP.”

      You think calling the Scottish National party
      Nationalist party is a mistake?
      bless.

    265. Training Day says:

      Milliband has this morning told us, in a socially just fashion, that we’re just one Christmas away – oh, the excitement – from a socially just Labour Government, which will look to implement social justice and, if we Scotch behave ourselves, maybe just sociality too.

      The same social justice which Brown and Dewar promised over 20 years ago.

    266. Seasick Dave says:

      John King

      Belgium is barely a country or region, according to Andrew Neil, so that doesn’t count.

      http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s3989982.htm

    267. Edward says:

      Listened to Milliband being ‘interviewed’ this morning on GMS by Naughtie. I say interview, more like a discussion.
      The only time that Naughtie queried ever so slightly, Milliband got flustered as he seemed to be sticking to a scripted format.

      Milliband came out with the ‘a Scotsman came up to me on the train heading here’ (bollocks)It was the made up story about a Scotsman being a foreigner if Scotland votes yes schtick.
      The reality is Milliband would be surrounded by his sycophants preparing him for his outing.

      The fascination bit was Naughtie taking about the SNP trying to entice Labour voters. Yet no mention of the Labour for independence movement.

    268. Robert Peffers says:

      @Peter: Go and learn a little Scottish/English/British history. Here’s a brief idea for you.

      By 1886, with the passing of, “The Crofters Act”, after years of struggle to pass it and, “The Highland Clearances”, began to peter out. However the mechanisation of the farming industry saw further Lowland and Borders clearances by use of, “The Vagrancy Acts.”,

      Lowland agricultural workers had no tenure to their homes. Unmarried males lived in, “Bothies”, unmarried females, (kitches), were billeted in, “The Big Hoose”, on estates or the home farm house. Married couples had a hovel in,“A Pluchies Raw,” (Ploughman’s Row).

      Furthermore they were, “fee’d Oan”, at special, annual, “Feein Merkets”, (Feeing Markets). If no one fee’d them oan they had no job and no home. “The Vagrancy Acts”, included the, “Crime”, of, “Having no visible means of support”.

      If found guilty they were sentenced to either, “The Poor House”, “The Work House”, or, “Transportation to the Colonies”. Those Vagrancy Acts were only ended in the 1990s.

      In the wake of the Clearances came the sheep to the Highlands and Borders which soon changed the whole demography of Scotland. These, along with the almost final destruction of the Great Caladonian Forest by the British & European wars that requires much timber for shipbuilding denuded the Highland’s & Borders of both trees and people and gave us the grand wasteland scenery of Scotland today.

      Note those dates, Peter, 1886 saw the end of just the Highland Clearances – less than 130 years ago. Then we had the Lowland Clearances and mass Lowland emigration well into modern times. My own immediate family left for Australia in 1962 because of the unemployment situation.

      Scotland’s main export industry throughout all those years has been that of the people of Scotland and it saw the populating of much of the World’s greatest economoies including the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and much of the rest of the World that used to be coloured pink on World maps.

    269. John H. says:

      Petition signed Ian.

    270. Graeme Doig says:

      EBC petition signed
      If we gain our independence it will be against all the establishment odds.

    271. CameronB says:

      Krackerman
      Absolutely correct, though I think Scotland has ample space to house a significant increase in population, without causing unacceptable environmental stress.

      IMHO, Scotland will only be able to achieve it’s true development potential, once planning policy and public investment focuses on developing Scotland, outwith the macro economic framework of the UKplc.

      Does that make me a nationalist? 🙂

    272. fergie35 says:

      One comment I have heard several times from No voters, is; What about all the immigrants?……. to which I look around and say… I cant see any here, what about them?

      Throughout the 20th Century Scotland was the only European country with a declining population.
      Emmigrants enable a larger gene pool, not a bad thing, unless we all want to look the same and have the same surname?

    273. Edward says:

      When Milliband was asked by Naughtie if Labour were elected in 2015, would he agree to share the pound. He emphatically said no. Then Naughtie said that Scotland could still use the pound anyway regardless. To which Milliband mumbled and changed the subject.

    274. bunter says:

      Looks like the media have moved quickly on from the BBC/CBI story. Nothing to see here, move along now, move along.

    275. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood

      I didn’t know you could speak French, Ian,

      Bonjour James ,

      Merci d’avoir signé ma pétition “Lord Patten, Chairman, BBC Trust: Cancel BBC membership of the CBI.”.

      Pouvez-vous contribuer au succès de cette pétition en demandant à vos amis de signer à leur tour? C’est très facile de la partager avec vos amis sur Facebook. Il vous suffit de cliquer ici pour partager la pétition sur Facebook.

      Vous trouverez aussi ci-dessous un modèle d’e-mail que vous pouvez faire suivre à vos amis.

      Merci encore. Ensemble, nous faisons changer les choses.

      Ian Brotherhood

    276. call me dave says:

      Morning Call radio Scotland with Mr Beattie asking

      “If Ed Milliband’s visit will get folk to change their vote to a NO”.

      The knowledgeable callers, the majority, are not buying into it while the uninformed callers, the minority, still spout the MSM rubbish.

      When I say ‘the knowledgeable’ I mean folk who have obviously made some effort to get information apart from reading the papers.

      Mr Beattie says very few NO voters are calling in.

      Heartening so far 🙂

    277. bunter says:

      Jeez, The Herald is regurgitating the Russian planes story again. Here are some nice scary pictures LOL. Lets make it our mission to destroy these purveyors of propaganda.

    278. Malc says:

      Just listening to GMS call-in , they are having to beg for NO voters to call in as they are hardly getting any. Almost every caller has lambasted labour and almost all are for YES.

    279. Edward says:

      On the subject of immigrants.
      Its a fact that the reason why voters in Scotland ask about immigrants, is down purely to a Westminster driven agenda.

      Night after night Scot’s are subjected to news programming from Sky, ITV (News via STV) and BBC which will broadcast what the Tories, UKIP and Labour spout about immigrants and its affect on the South East of England.

      What the media avoid or ignore is the fact that Scotland is underpopulated. They avoid any mention of the fact that Scotland’s population has never grown over the last 100 or so years.

      It could be argued that it has been in Westminster’s interest to keep the population in Scotland down and use it as a dormitory state. A strong and vibrant Scotland would not be in Westminster’s interests, which is also why there has been no proper investment in infrastructure (you have seen the figures for the period 1900 to 1921 that WOS published).

    280. Fairliered says:

      Signed

    281. call me dave says:

      Drew Smith labour, has already claimed faulty equipment, when asked to answer a question on why Ed was not popular.
      When brought back in a minute later he was never challenged to answer.

      Three NO’s for example.

      One poor woman said we’d lose the National Health Service.
      Another believed he would not get his State Pension.
      Lady said were too wee to be independent, no money!

      Scare em and lie to them, just put a cross in the NO box .
      🙁

    282. Luigi says:

      Ed Milliband is currently taking a savage beating on GMS today – the majority of callers are voting YES, but even the few no voters calling in have nothing positive to say about EM or the Labour party. The NO voters calling in seem to be very confused people, basing their position on weak, dubious arguments.

    283. turnbull drier says:

      Ian – Signed…

      there appears to be another petition started on the same subject:

      https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/lord-chris-patten-resign-immediately-from-the-cbi

      I’ve signed both to be on the safe side 🙂

    284. heraldnomore says:

      Petition signed too.

      But have you read the terrific report on the CBI from BfS? It’s very full and detailed, and essential reading:

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/business-for-scotland-challenges-the-cbi-to-come-clean/

      But the BBC is notably absent, so far, the report having been written before the news of the ‘suspension’. Look forward to the update on that one.

      And on the wireless, flabber well and truly gasted on the continued misinformation on the NHS as a reason for a No vote. Oh FFS, the NHS is one of the prime reasons for a Yes vote. One would have thought Mr Beattie might have been able to add something there, but not to be.

      Then again his employer is a member of the CBI.

    285. Alfresco Dent says:

      GMS is excellent right now!

    286. Tamson says:

      @Edward, regarding Naughtie’s interview of Miliband:

      When a Unionist comes out with the “but my family/friends/dog will become foreigners” crap, it’s an open goal for any interviewer to make the interviewee squirm with one simple question:

      “What’s your problem with foreigners?”

      Any interviewer who doesn’t put that question forward is biased in favour of the interviewee or/and incompetent. I’ve yet to hear a Unionist face that question in a mainstream media interview, which tells you all you need to know about the MSM.

    287. heraldnomore says:

      At least they’ll be finishing early as we off to The Mound for Margo.

      And the whole country joins in with Sunshine on Leith.

    288. call me dave says:

      There is a woman on GMS still harping back to 1979 claiming that Maggie’s 18yrs was brought about through 11 SNP MP’s voted to support the vote of ‘no confidence’

      It was more complicated than that.

      See for yourself. first 16 mins mainly setting the scene story really starts about there.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WRVVdGQcN0

    289. Nana Smith says:

      I somehow doubt the bbc resigning from the cbi will make any difference to their misinformation agenda.
      Really they should be compelled to stop reporting on the referendum. Is there not an election commission to deal with these issues?

    290. Craig P says:

      Edward:

      A strong and vibrant Scotland would not be in Westminster’s interests,

      I disagree with that. A strong and vibrant Scottish economy *is* in Westminster’s interests – more to tax. Their difficulty is encouraging this, whilst simultaneously discouraging a strong and vibrant Scottish *culture*, the existence of which increases the centrifugal forces on the British state.

    291. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I am beginning to get the feeling that Miliband really doesn’t have his heart in the Referendum debate.

      His policies, designed to enhance the NO vote a paper thin and are being torn to shreds by the callers with ease.

      The Guy from Edinburgh with and English accent a few seconds ago that the Referendum choice was Yes, No or Devo plus! I wonder if he writes for the Scotsman?

      That was clearly an out and out lie.

      I gave up after that and went onto JazzFM.

    292. Craig P says:

      call me dave:

      There is a woman on GMS still harping back to 1979 claiming that Maggie’s 18yrs was brought about through 11 SNP MP’s voted to support the vote of ‘no confidence’

      I always thought it was tens of millions of English voters scunnered with Labour incompetence who elected Margaret Thatcher but no, in Labour’s world, Thatcherism was all the fault of 11 SNP MPs…

    293. Archie [not Erchie] says:

      Seeing as Nana Smith mentioned Electoral Commission here is a link for those of us who would like to register as an observer on the 18th September.

      http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/upcoming-elections-and-referendums/observing-elections-and-referendums

    294. NickR says:

      In response to those who are banging on about the rise in business insolvencies, as an insolvency practitioner I can tell you that the rise is somewhat artificial. The most active creditor in terms of putting companies into compulsory liquidation is HM Revenue and Customs. If I recall correctly they are responsible for upwards of 90% of court liquidations.

      Last year they had a moratorium on appointing liquidators as they underwrite the cost and they wanted to examine cost effectiveness. This year they have started appointing again and there is an element of catch up involved.

      In reality, most of the HMRC driven company failures are relatively small one man bands and have little impact on unemployment as usually the individual either gets a job or starts a new business venture. For such companies, often the primary reason for liquidation is because they have failed to comply with tax requirements such as accounting for PAYE or submitting VAT returns.

      Another category are the scams where HMRC are shutting down a fraud such as VAT “Carousel” frauds.

      So whilst there are some high profile Scottish Insolvencies around, the simple fact that company failures are up is far from the whole story.

    295. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Robert Peffers says:
      @Peter: Go and learn a little Scottish/English/British history.

      Scotland has been great too at exporting cannon fodder over the years.

    296. john king says:

      Krackerman says
      “How much of that area is flat though mate – Belgium all of it… Scotland perhaps not so much….”

      Because ye cannie build a hoose oan a hill?

    297. bunter says:

      James Cook on the BBC says Miliband will say that the SNP proposal to reduce corp tax would be bad for the working class but good for the rich. Was it not his pal Broon who reduced it twice when in power. Ha ha ha the guys a joke.

    298. Les Wilson says:

      Edward says:

      Ed, ref your comment about Milliband using a “Script”, doing so has it’s dangers for him.

      Greg Moodie shows the pitfalls well here, it’s the gullible expressions that make laugh. Here is the link, just scroll down.

      http://gregmoodie.com/untied-with-labour/

      enjoy!

    299. Flower of Scotland says:

      Anybody! Is there a live TV online or elsewhere stream of Margo,s Funeral! Why just radio! Dam the BBC!

    300. CyberNiall says:

      I’m amazed that there aren’t any images of bulldog whistles and that we have to resort to an image of a bulldog belt buckle. I feel lied to….

    301. SquareHaggis says:

      BBC petition duly signed.

    302. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      O/T

      Margaret Hodge (Labour) was on Radio 4 getting stuck in about all the foreigners in British jails and why are we not sending them home to their own countries to serve their sentences?

      I thought was listening to someone from the BNP/UKIP

      We know where the Labour Party is going and it isn’t anywhere leftwards.

      They need the SE of England to achieve control of Westminster and are sh1t scared of UKIP.

      The EU elections will only crystallise the right morphing of London Labour.

      The SMP’s and MP’s of Labour are toast and very soon.

    303. cearc says:

      “How much of that area is flat though mate – Belgium all of it…’

      WHAT! They’ve bulldozed the Ardennes? Why didn’t we here about this desecration of nature?

    304. Luigi says:

      BBC petition signed.

    305. SquareHaggis says:

      Milliband will say listen to me while the BBC beam out my unpleasant face before you whilst I divert the Scottish people away from the funeral of one of your most treasured daughters.

      The Labour party has absolutely no humility, humanity or shame.

    306. msean says:

      It’s as if the Russians didn’t bump against uk airspace almost every week in the last 50+ years,but that has never been made plain in any reports I have seen.

      It’s like the union jackery on almost every product its possible to get them onto pre September,it’s not working lol.

    307. Edward says:

      Flower of Scotland
      Its being live streamed online BBC
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27156216

    308. Roger Houston says:

      Petition signed Ian

    309. Morag says:

      @ Morag: ‘Surely “pooling and sharing” means someone is getting “something for nothing”.’

      An excellent tweet sized comment, consider it stolen.

      Tweeted it the other day, but hey, help yourself!

    310. Heather says:

      When referring to the SNP votes allowed Thatcher in, it must be borne in mind that the Tory party prior to that had been in a different guise to that of Thatcher’s Tory party. They also forget to mention that the whole of the UK was absolutely scunnered with the Labour party at that time and was in desperate need of change. No one could have foreseen the damage that Thatcher was about to inflict on our nation. None of us had signed up for that, and that is shown consistently by the utter decimation of the Tory party in Scotland at the polls.

    311. Diuglas Lang says:

      I would be interested in a figure on how many English lIve is Scotland currently! I know a fair few who came here for better wages, cheaper housing and in the words of not a few, better people!

    312. X_Sticks says:

      Signed and tweeted Ian 😀

    313. Toots Capoot says:

      John King @ 25 April 9.04pm

      Don’t be so patronising. You simply failed to understand the point of the post.

      In using the link provided, what should have been a straightforward listing of parties re the European election, there appeared the use of Nationlist instead of National re the SNP and that here, yet again, was another example of the willful misrepresentation it’s always been.

    314. caz-m says:

      jhbjhuhuhiuhkjnkj



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