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We’ll get to the bottom of this yet

Posted on March 11, 2015 by

Is the Scottish NHS protected by devolution, or is it in mortal danger?

murphynhs

We’re expecting that answer any minute now, honestly.

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    1. 11 03 15 14:40

      We’ll get to the bottom of this yet | Speymouth

    135 to “We’ll get to the bottom of this yet”

    1. Joemcg says:

      Saw a very heated debate, well a shouting match in Edinburgh at a yes stall in September between a colleague and a typical Tory old bint over this issue. Still remember her face screaming “Rubbish! Lies, Lies!”

    2. Lanarkist says:

      When dealing with known liars I think we should assume the worst and go with the second option.

      You know, adopt a belt and braces approach.

    3. ClanDonald says:

      That’s terrible, Scottish Labour are stabbing poor Jim Murphy in the back, claiming that he’s lying about the Scottish NHS. they really are a treacherous bunch, aren’t they?

    4. HandandShrimp says:

      Either Brown and Draling were unconscionable bare faced liars 6 months ago or Murphy and Miliband are today.

      They cannot have their cake and eat it.

      I’m baffled they have gone with this because the SNP response is simple. Replicate this leaflet and the ones they put out 6 months ago side by side with the simple message “Do you trust these people?”

    5. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      The scottish public are hardly going to forget Labour liars calling the ongoing privatisation of the NHS “scaremongering” when the SNP and yes parties kept pointing it out.

      It was only a few months ago we were treated to various Labour liars saying the NHS was safe after a No vote.

      The fact is the only reason Labour are making this an issue at all is because wee Ed Miliband ran out of ideas and replaced his ‘cost of living crisis’ with banging on about the NHS because the tories are so little trusted on it.

      His problem is that ‘scottish’ Labour are certainly not going to be trusted on the NHS after they lied so often about it during the referendum.

    6. Calum McLean says:

      Keep the good work going Stu. You are certainly getting to the bottom of a lot of stuff hidden from sight in the MSM – or even cartoons too much in sh ite in the MSM !

      So in reciprocation and appreciation, that’s another £5 put into the Wings Over Scotland Fund.

      Might I gently suggest every time someone gets angry at all that has gone on this week, rather than just write about it, you join me and pop a fiver across to WoS and help lift the target above the landmark £100,000 🙂

      Best wishes,

      Calum.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      Same old, same old. I am now utterly convinced Murphy is a buffoon.He has no memory of anything.People used to tell me he would be a formidable opponent,but the internet and some close scrutiny reveals him for what he is.

    8. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      @Joemcg

      One of the great things about the SNP having a membership close to 100,000 is that we have plenty of activists who work in the NHS in scotland and are very well informed on every issue that affects it.

      In fact some of the candidates to become MPs are NHS professionals. So it is extreme folly for the westminster unionist parties like Labour to go big on the NHS when they will be caught in every lie by those who know just how dishonest Labour, the lib dems and the tories are being on the subject.

    9. In your quest to get to the bottom of this, why don’t you ask Jim Murphy directly?

      However he answers, the truth will be diametrically opposite.

    10. fletch49er says:

      …and what about Gordon Brown and his cronnies with their ‘SNP NHS LIES’ slogan. Grrrr!!

    11. steveasaneilean says:

      Two issues really.

      1. Yes, NHS Scotland is devolved. The SG pays for it out of their fixed budget but within that budget they can decide how much to spend on health as opposed to other devolved areas like housing, education, transport.

      Thus far SG has chosen to protect health but that means less money for other areas. But I guess that’s a choice most of us would agree with.

      2. The NHS in Scotland is in trouble. This is NOT the fault of SG. It’s because of a “perfect storm” of factors.

      So we have an ageing population who carry with them a higher burden of mulitple co-morbidities that the NHS has to deal with.

      We have a recruitment and retention problem, most marked in rural areas but now spreading to urban areas too. This is because many of our young doctors, nurses and other health professionals are turning their back on Scotland and going to places like Australia and New Zealand (better terms and conditions, better climate, etc.).

      We have increasing effective and expensive drugs, treatments and interventions the cost of which is way aboive inflation or any uplift in funding the SG might anticipate.

      And we have rising demand. Last year our A&E departments dealth with cases at a rate of 190 patients per hour – 1.65 million for the year – whilst our GP out-of-hours servcies dealt with 163 people per hour – a totla of close to 1 million for the year.

      The NHS has NEVER been adequately funded from day 1. It is not a party political issue. It’s a societal issue and we all need to sit down and work what we are going to do.

      If we can not persuade the majority that taxes need to rise substantially to pay for it then the conversation is no longer about what kind of health service we want. It’s about what we need and, perhaps most importantly, what we can actually afford to provide.

      Labour talks about 1000 more nurses. That will solve nothing even if it weren’t a devolved matter and nothing to do with them. For a start it takes 3 years to train them. And where are we going to find these people when we cannot find them now?

      And it’s not just nurses – we need more of almost every kind of health porfessional you can think of because they are all struggling to recruit and retain.

      When you have had 30 years of denegrating public service from our political masters is it any wonder no-one wants to do it?

    12. Betty Boop says:

      Yep, that’s the leaflet he took from a lady at the Yes stall and after conversing with her, folded it, stuffed it in his pocket and headed for his Irn Bru crate and then waved it about saying it was all lies.

      I was within earshot of the conversation he had at the stall and can confirm the following is true.

      The story from the lady with whom he conversed:

      You might be interested to know that I had handed him our leaflet on the NHS and the risk of it being privatised and he said it was lies. How did we come to that conclusion?

      I went through the funding process and he kept saying “right I am with you” finally agreeing that there would be reduced funding but said that did not mean privatisation it meant that we would have to raise taxes to meet the shortfall something that the Scottish Government was able to do as this was a devolved matter under devolution granted thanks to the Labour party.

      The discussion went on from there till someone from his side came over and took his arm saying they were waiting on him.

      He said a lot more on his crate that day, especially about oil running out and being too difficult for the oil companies to extract from west of Shetland (really ?), didn’t answer anything other than questions from the BT camp (most of whom came with him), and definitely wouldn’t hand that mike over so people could be heard.

      His head must spin through 360 degrees and then some!

    13. jock mc X says:

      This is ‘THE’ one…the one that will destroy the labour
      party.

      The NHS is the one thing that binds decent people of all
      backgrounds in the UK.

    14. Cag-does-thinking says:

      O/T but as trailed in PMQs various newpapers including the lovely Guardian and youtube have expressed interest in having a debate to suit Cameron with five parties but of course no Plaid and no SNP. Con central office are considering it apparantly. Maybe Steve Bell will do a cartoon about it.

    15. Desimond says:

      Now you have me thinking, How the hell will the visionary Andy Burnham get to implement his ONE UK NHS dream if he had to rely on SNP votes at Westminster?
      :-0

    16. BrianW says:

      We could just use common sense and know that if a leaflet/bill board etc has Labour anywhere on it, it’s going to be a load of shite, or a follow up contradictory load of shite..

      We can’t all be suffering from memory loss surly (it’d be a medical study waiting to happen if we are).

      We were all there when we saw our Better Together, No Thanks uKok politicians telling us that the NHS was/would be safe in a United Kingdom with those broad shoulders to share the responsibility.. blah.. blah.. blah..

      But wait, whats this..

      “Scotlans NHS cannot afford another five years of the Tories”

      ARGGHHHH.. Quick! Run for the Polling Booths.. Labour are here to save us form a situation they said wasn’t going to happen a few months ago.

      There’s going to be an NHS Apocoloyse.. the leaflet said so..

      P.S I agree with HandandShrimp at 1:50pm “..the SNP response is simple. Replicate this leaflet and the ones they put out 6 months ago side by side with the simple message “Do you trust these people?”

      Perfect.

    17. sunshine says:

      I was visiting my mother last week and was surprised to hear her say that labour were mince. She is not very politically engaged but like most of us she can sense something is not quite true with labour.

      Without this site showing comparisons like above, only a small minority of us would be able to recall what was said a few months ago, but most of us would sense something was “mince”. That is the stage my mother is at and encouragingly, most of the other residents in the sheltered housing where she lives.

      I showed her the clip from this site with the labour MP insulting our “wee lassie with the helmet” First Minister.
      As a woman she was shocked and also surprised she hadn’t saw it on the news.

      “Bloody terrible that” and she resolved to tell all her friends at that days coffee morning in the complex.
      God bless the Internet and this site.

    18. frankieboy says:

      There is no such organisation as Scottish Labour. I’m at a loss why anyone continues to refer to the British Labour and Unionist Party as such. If you start with a lie then the rest is pretty much going to follow that pattern.

    19. Macandroid says:

      O/T so soon

      Nice to see that nice Mr Bliar McDougall swanning around the Parliament’s garden lobby without his visitor’s pass – as if he owned the place.

      Fat chancer er… fat chance… no – right the first time!

    20. Sinky says:

      Keep writing to the Unionist press and call BBC phone ins pointing this out and other anomalies as although we know these lies, the non political anoraks don’t.

    21. JayR says:

      In light of this confusion/LIE from Labour, maybe Jack McConnell would like to explain why it was in fact HIM that was telling a “big huge lie” over the NHS in August 2014. I’m gonna ask him for an explanation

      https://web.archive.org/web/20150311142700/http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/independence-referendum-former-first-minister-4098146

    22. Lesley-Anne says:

      In a funny old way this sort of thing just gives us all some unexpected *ammunition* to throw at Labour whenever there is a General Electio hustings. No doubt there will be hustings/debates during April, won’t there? 😉

      I’m looking forward to the debates down here. Firstly cause I’ll get another chance to embarrass *cough* “Fluffy” again but also because I’ll be able to ask the Labour candidate when he was lying … during the referendum or now, over the N.H.S. in Scotland. 😛

      The best thing about asking our Labour candidate this is that our S.N.P. candidate has worked in the N.H.S. for around 30 years and will cut him down in a second just like she will with “Fluffy.” 😀

    23. call me dave says:

      Justine Thorton (Ed’s wife). Tories being nasty to him.

      https://archive.today/i5jRR

      Here is the interview. (I hope)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or1U8JA65A8&t=35

    24. Kenny says:

      Oh, you lot! That was last year’s disagreement. It’s all in the past. Why can’t you just move on? We’ve moved past that disagreement and now Scotland needs to come together and fight the Tories. Labour has always fought the Tories. I don’t know what you lot were doing last year, but we’ve always been at war with Eastas…ummm, the Tories. Aye. Tories bad. SNP bad. NHS good.

      Vote Labour, you fucking Jock cretins.

    25. Fiona says:

      steveasaneilean says:
      11 March, 2015 at 2:12 pm
      Two issues really.

      1. Yes, NHS Scotland is devolved. The SG pays for it out of their fixed budget but within that budget they can decide how much to spend on health as opposed to other devolved areas like housing, education, transport.

      Thus far SG has chosen to protect health but that means less money for other areas. But I guess that’s a choice most of us would agree with.

      2. The NHS in Scotland is in trouble. This is NOT the fault of SG. It’s because of a “perfect storm” of factors.

      So we have an ageing population who carry with them a higher burden of mulitple co-morbidities that the NHS has to deal with.

      We have a recruitment and retention problem, most marked in rural areas but now spreading to urban areas too. This is because many of our young doctors, nurses and other health professionals are turning their back on Scotland and going to places like Australia and New Zealand (better terms and conditions, better climate, etc.).

      We have increasing effective and expensive drugs, treatments and interventions the cost of which is way aboive inflation or any uplift in funding the SG might anticipate.

      And we have rising demand. Last year our A&E departments dealth with cases at a rate of 190 patients per hour – 1.65 million for the year – whilst our GP out-of-hours servcies dealt with 163 people per hour – a totla of close to 1 million for the year.

      The NHS has NEVER been adequately funded from day 1. It is not a party political issue. It’s a societal issue and we all need to sit down and work what we are going to do.

      If we can not persuade the majority that taxes need to rise substantially to pay for it then the conversation is no longer about what kind of health service we want. It’s about what we need and, perhaps most importantly, what we can actually afford to provide.

      Labour talks about 1000 more nurses. That will solve nothing even if it weren’t a devolved matter and nothing to do with them. For a start it takes 3 years to train them. And where are we going to find these people when we cannot find them now?

      And it’s not just nurses – we need more of almost every kind of health porfessional you can think of because they are all struggling to recruit and retain.

      When you have had 30 years of denegrating public service from our political masters is it any wonder no-one wants to do it?

      I agree with your first point

      I do not agree with your second point, at least not in your detailed reasoning.

      We do have an ageing population and this is used by those who wish to dismantle public provision to justify their position. Yet they never actually explain the relevance and I do not think they can, for there is none. It is yet another of those sound bites which are like proverbs: they are simple and have surface plausibility, but one proverb contradicts another and has equal simplicity and plausibility. So with this kind of narrative.

      In one part of the forest we have an ageing population which puts more pressure on the health service.

      In another part of the forest we are all living longer and much healthier lives and so we can work till we are much older. So we can’t be placing demands on the health service by reason of age, can we?

      “He who hesitates is lost”: “Look before you leap”

      They can’t both be right

      Most health demand arises in the last year of life: and everyone has a last year. Doesn’t matter if it is at 60 or at 80: we need care at that point.

      That is only one of the problem with the story, however. You have to look at the basic arithmetical error in the tale itself. Because age does not matter per se. Not at all. The perception that it does arises from a school boy howler which is produced by the way the dependency ratio is calculated. The dependency ratio is what matters.

      In short, the working population produce the wealth/goods/services etc which supports us all. That is, they support the disabled and the children and the pensioners and the parasites of the ruling class. So what matters is how many are working compared to those who are not able to work for whatever reason. The dependency ratio as normally cited does not reflect that because it assumes that everyone of working age is actually working. That means it puts the unemployed on the wrong side of the equation, and so appears to illustrate a problem which does not exist in the form it is normally presented.

      What needs to happen if we are to understand whether we have a problem or whether we don’t is to do the calculation properly: that is we need to stop pretending that age is a problem in itself:a pensioner who is not working is exactly the same as a 30 year old on the broo, in those terms.

      Since rise of neoliberal policy we have come to accept enormously high levels of unemployment: it averaged around 3-4% in the period of the post war consensus. Now we are told that the NAIRU is about 6% and we cannot expect full employment as that term was previously understood ever again. I am not sure if you are aware of the sleight of hand when talking about full employment: it is the same phrase but it now means something very different: that kind of abuse of language is a very familiar tactic for our neoliberals, to confuse people. It seems to work.

      You may recall that one of the reasons the tories won the 1979 election was the unacceptably high rate of unemployment: it was approaching 1 million and people were legitimately very unhappy about that. Since that election it has never fallen below 2 million despite many figure fiddling changes to the way unemployment is counted aimed to make it look better than it is.

      When there is full employment we produce more stuff: and the people who produce it pay tax. That is the base for support of our dependents and it follows that there is no necessary crisis arising from more people living longer. If that increase in dependency (assuming it exists) is met by increased employment and productivity then the problem is non-existent.

      It is curious to note that such figures are not published nor widely discussed. Instead the soundbite (proverb) is trotted out without challenge and once again we find ourselves persuaded by nonsense.

    26. One_Scot says:

      If this doesn’t make it plainly obvious to everyone, even people who are not that politically aware, that Scotland should be Independent of Westminster, I don’t know what will.

      Please for the love of God and my sanity, let’s make sure we swamp Westminster with SNP MPs so we can get the France out of this political system.

    27. Ken500 says:

      The SNP Gov kept it’s promises and protects NHS/Education and the most vulnerable. Mitigated the ‘bedroom tax’ and the welfare cuts.

      The ConDems elected to protect NHS/Education have cut both, since 2011 Budget. NHS £2Billion a year (savings?) Education £3Billion a year. £5Billion a year. A total of £20Billion.

      The increase in the Oil tax by Osbourne/Alexander 11% £2Billion a year, now up to 80%+ has cost Scotland £16Billion+, and has cost jobs.

      Westminster liars are just dispicable. Put Trident beside Westminster, along with the rotting subs.

      When the ConDems came to power £600Billion was raised in taxes. Now £466Billion is raised in tax in the UK. £90Billion is being borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. Pro rata £9Billion more than Scotland. £53Billion+ was raised in Scotland. New figures are due.

      Austerity doesn’t work it costs more.

    28. Walter Scott says:

      Labour (Scottish labour?) nakedly claim ownership of “Our NHS” however, when it came into being a lot of Labour MP’s voted against the bill to set it up & weirdly some Tories voted in favour. Brown claimed it was labour & only labour who care. No matter, everyone, 16 & over who worked & paid taxes from the foundation of the health service own it. We all own it. Not labour.

    29. call me dave says:

      “I think the SNP might be interested in this” says Dave

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31830651

      FMQ’s

    30. Adrian B says:

      Here is Gordon Brown explaining that to raise further funding for the NHS in Scotland then the Scottish Government (Gordon says ‘SNP’ & ‘they’ instead of SG) has the power to raise tax levels in Scotland through the Scotland Act 1998……

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/sep/16/scottish-independence-gordon-brown-snp-nhs-video

    31. call me dave says:

      PMQ’s I elevated Dave above his station there… 🙁

    32. Ken500 says:

      Putting a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink would cut the NHS cost at a stroke. Could save £1Billion+ Whisky Companies tax evade, through the City of London. Taxes could raise £1/2Billion.

    33. Macca73 says:

      Is it just me or do they just not care about audit trails?

      Thanks Rev. for being the one to keep reminding us all of the utter tripe this lot spoke when fighting the referendum. There’s only so much carpet and you can’t keep sweeping forever you know liebour!

    34. jackie g says:

      Cameron ‘wants debate with Salmond’
      The prime minister says he wants a TV debate with Alex Salmond during angry Commons exchanges with Labour leader Ed Miliband.

      am i missing something?

    35. Joemcg says:

      Just saw the Labour 10 leaflet on the bus going to work was annoyed and went to bin it but scrawled across the front in big letters was “Red Tory’s” it’s still there. 🙂

    36. jackie g says:

      ‘Chaos’ for Scotland’s finances

      The Scottish Conservatives said the SNP’s plan to cut all financial ties with the UK would require the equivalent of an 8p hike in income tax, “significant spending cuts” or “vastly increased borrowing

      The party’s finance spokesman Gavin Brown said: “Scotland is part of a family where everyone puts in and shares the proceeds.

      That security was jeopardised last September, and it’s the SNP’s sole, stated aim to jeopardise it again in May.

      Family bloody cheek!

    37. Stoker says:

      Calum McLean wrote:
      “Might I gently suggest every time someone gets angry at all that has gone on this week, rather than just write about it, you join me and pop a fiver across to WoS and help lift the target above the landmark £100,000”

      ffs, Calum, who do you work for!
      A fiver every time we got angry!
      We’d never have our hands out our pockets!
      😉 lol

    38. Bill Hume says:

      JRSays (11th March 2:30)

      Interesting link here to the Daily Record a month before the referendum.

      I was surprised by the almost balanced coverage………or have things just become more brutaly ugly since then and I’ve become desensitised to the MSM’s rhetoric?

    39. Graeme Doig says:

      O/T kind of

      Meant to congratulate you on calling it straight about Murphy being ‘a liar’ a few threads ago Rev.

      I wondered if you had been contacted by anyone accusing you of libel? 😉

    40. Helena Brown says:

      call me dave @ 3.05pm, I see you deifnitely promoted David Cameron. Very interesting, stopped watching the bear pit, the noise was too much for my tinnitus. I wonder how Nicola feels when they are still in love with the former leader Alex. I think they fear her even more.

    41. dennis mclaughlin says:

      The front page of the National has the biggest story of today.
      One that should be on every front page :our right to vote in May 2015 is being GERRYMANDERED right under our eyes!.

      Stu this must be impressed on everyone; go and check your eligibility to vote.

      Between Postal Voting fraud and now this diabolical scheme to deny us all a basic right…..can we please have it in Capital Letters available to print off from WOS ?.

    42. Proud Cybernat says:

      SNP will still press for devo max, insists Sturgeon, as figures show £12bn black hole in Scotland’s finances. The Herald.

      Go Nicola! Time to stop the UK making a complete mess of Scotland’s finances.

    43. ClanDonald says:

      Here’s Kezia Dugdale’s column in the Daily Record from before the indyref claiming that the SNP were lying and scaremongering about the NHS :

      https://archive.today/ADCHd

      Shall we ask her what she thinks about Ed Miliband now making the same scaremongering claims that the SNP did last year? Will she say he is the liar or will she admit she was lying back in August?

    44. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T but thought everyone should get a wee heads up about the top story on BBC (DIS)Reporting Scotland tonight at half past six. 😉

      https://twitter.com/dtaylor5633/status/575476784713441280/photo/1

    45. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well if that is ITV’s response to Joan Mcalpine’s complaint Jackie I think there will be even FEWER viewers of their abismal programmes in the coming weeks. I for one NEVER watch ITV Border programmes. I very much doubt they really know where Scotland is despite actually being on the border with Scotland. 😀

    46. Luigi says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      11 March, 2015 at 3:49 pm

      SNP will still press for devo max, insists Sturgeon, as figures show £12bn black hole in Scotland’s finances. The Herald.

      Go Nicola! Time to stop the UK making a complete mess of Scotland’s finances.

      If the SNP can successfully own the devomax ticket for the next 1-2 years, they cannot lose. Currently, it’s the will of the Scottish people. Why Westminster continues to threaten the UK by refusing Scotland devomax is difficult to comprehend.

      Devomax is what we were promised, effectively, and devomax is what we will bloody well get (or else)!

    47. Tony Little says:

      OT being reported on Twitter that SNP canvassers being pelted with eggs and cans of juice in Possil. The “war” promotion in the Media has started in reality.

      Time for some agressive response from the SNP

    48. Cuddis says:

      @handandshrimp 1.50
      Good idea. And we probably have enough examples for a series.

    49. Stoker says:

      Lesley-Anne wrote:
      “I for one NEVER watch ITV Border programmes.”

      Ditto!

    50. Phronesis says:

      Labour ( before they wither and die) should really drop this strategy . They have NHS blood on their hands – witness the NHS Reinstatement Bill that’s now being proposed in England by Prof Allyson Pollok and colleagues – one of the most damning indictments of Labours culpability in the privatisation agenda.
      NHS YES Facebook page is a great source of information on many NHS issues but fundamentally the Scottish NHS has its founding principles protected by a Scottish Government that is showing that there is another alternative to the deficient politics of WM.

    51. steveasaneilean says:

      @Fiona 2.52 – Hi Fiona – just because people are living longer it doesn’t mean they are living healthier lives.

      Longevity brings with it the risk of multiple diseases, each one of which on its own would have killed you younger (heart disease, diabetes, kidney failure, etc.)in days of old.

      We can do so much more to keep people alive but not necessarily much healthier. That is why life expectancy in Scotland is about 80 but healthy life expectency is 20 years less than that.

      So it’s wrong to say that all the issues arise in the last year of life – they often arise before that by as much as twenty years.

      Our population is ageing and if we have fewer people of productive working age amd more of dependent age then there is going to be less money to go round – at a time when the costs of health care are rising.

      For me the only answer is substantially higher taxes if we wish free at the point of access healthcare. That means more people in work and more people paying taxes and higher taxes. I don’t pretend to have the recipe for that however!

    52. Ken500 says:

      Total taxes raised in tbe UK £466 Billion. Total taxes raised in Scotland £54Billion+ Scotland has lost £4Billion+ a year because Westminster raised Oil taxes 11% (£2Billion) a year now up to 80%+. This lost Scotland revenues and cost jobs in Scotland. A deliberate act of spite by Wstminster to spoil the Scottish economy. Westminster is borrowing and spending £90Billion a year more and passing the debt to Scottish Accounts £9Billion, which is not spent in Scotland.

      Scotland gets £35Billion block grant, £15Billion (UK) pensions/benefits. £3Billion Defence. – £53Billion. Scotland could save £1Billion on a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. £1Billion cutting Trident/illegal wars. £Billions by cutting tax evasion through the City of London. £4Billion+ on Oil tax. £2Billion on unnecessary debt repayment. £12Billion Debt placed on Scotland by
      Westminster policies.

    53. manandboy says:

      When I see a poo in my garden, I know right away whodunnit.

      In the same way, seeing so much of the media
      covered in schitt, I know whodunnit – John ‘Tory’ McTernan.

      I think I’ll rename him John ‘Toly’ McTernan.

      McTernan knows how to lower the tone of a campaign.
      It’s a measure of the man.

      So low, I doubt my dog would lift his leg for him.

    54. Cuddis says:

      @bobmack 1.58
      ‘Same old, same old. I am now utterly convinced Murphy is a buffoon.He has no memory of anything.People used to tell me he would be a formidable opponent,but the internet and some close scrutiny reveals him for what he is.’

      I am amazed at the power of the Internet through social media, sites like this, Twitter etc. to make a real difference to getting the truth out there. It is amazing what Stu has managed to do on his own. I look forward to the day when Wings has enough donations to employ more staff. I expect that to be an even more formidable counter to MSM lies and deception.

    55. garles says:

      Lesley-Anne says:
      11 March, 2015 at 2:33 pm

      The best thing about asking our Labour candidate this is that our S.N.P. candidate has worked in the N.H.S. for around 30 years and will cut him down in a second just like she will with “Fluffy.

      Dinnae be to hard on Archie.He is a no bad fella just misguided.

    56. Davy says:

      The red Tories are very surprised that Scotland actually remembers what they said about Scotland over the past couple of years, they seem to think every voter in Scotland should have forgotten everything by September 19, they must think we have a reset button.

      Unlucky for them it broke.

      Watching today’s Prime Minsters QT was quite revealing, they are absolutely shiteing themselves about the SNP having a large number of MP’s in Westminster.

      The UK’s democratic process is not good enough for the Westminster troughers, it must be their way or no way. The sheer anger and fear the unionist MP’s projected, just because Scotland may finally have a genuine piece of Westminster power was unbelievable.

      So much for we love you and want you to stay, it’s more like fuck off this is our party and your not invited.

      Shame we are such good party crashers.

      Vote SNP, get Scotland.

    57. Lesley-Anne says:

      garles says:

      Lesley-Anne says:

      The best thing about asking our Labour candidate this is that our S.N.P. candidate has worked in the N.H.S. for around 30 years and will cut him down in a second just like she will with “Fluffy.

      Dinnae be to hard on Archie.He is a no bad fella just misguided.

      Sorry Garles I’m no talking aboot Earchie I’m talking aboot his wee BLUE Tory brother … wee Davy Mundell. 😀

    58. Joemcg says:

      Wow! Thought Possil would be a yes stronghold. Is there a ludge in the area?

    59. Luigi says:

      Joemcg says:

      11 March, 2015 at 4:51 pm

      Wow! Thought Possil would be a yes stronghold.

      It is….”then they come to fight you”

      We’re winning!

    60. Fiona says:

      @steveasanalien

      You are correct that it does not mean we are leading healthier lives, necessarily. My point was that the mainstream narrative is inherently self contradictory. They claim that an ageing population places more demands on the health service, which implies they are sick and need care. At the same time they raise the retirement age (stealing pensions in the process) which implies that they are not sick and indeed are fit to work in the same way as they always were. They cannot have it both ways

      Nor do I think that you can claim that longevity brings the risk of multiple disease in a way that costs more to care for than in the past. Many diseases which gave rise to care needs are just not a problem now: as an example, polio.

      I did not say that all the issues arise in the last year of life: but it is a fact that most of the cost does arise then. See, for example, the summary of this Kings Fund paper on health care costs, where it says

      http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publication_file/Spending%20on%20health%20…%2050%20years%20low%20res%20for%20web.pdf

      The ageing of the population is
      also a factor, although of much less importance than is generally supposed: increases in
      life expectancy tend simply to delay the time at which the health care costs associated with
      death are incurred rather than increasing these costs per se. This is an important point as it
      challenges the conventional thinking that spending on health care will rise inexorably as the
      population ages. In fact, the pressure to spend more will largely be driven by other factors

      Actual figures are not available to me for the UK: but there is ample evidence from the US, as, for example, here

      http://www.thirteen.org/bid/sb-howmuch.html

      Medicare, the health insurance program for the elderly, spends nearly 30 percent of its budget on beneficiaries in their final year of life. Slightly more than half of Medicare dollars are spent on patients who die within two months.

      As I said, it is all about the dependency ratio. If, as you suggest, we have fewer people of productive working age, then we also have fewer children, and they are part of the dependent population. If society continues the trend for women to be in full time employment for most of their lives (and childcare is provided to allow for that) then fewer women are dependents as well. That trend has been strong for a long time and the potential benefits would have been absorbed by now if it were not for the deliberate policy of high unemployment pursued by our neoliberals, despite what they pretend.

      Your final paragraph confuses me. You may be right that we need higher taxes as well as more people paying taxes, and I have no objection to that: in fact I support higher taxes in any case, because that promotes greater equality and that is something I value. But if we are focusing on the health service then without the figures (which I find nowhere available to me, though I am sure they are out there) I cannot agree that it follows that we need both full employment AND higher taxes. Depends on how much would become available through full employment and the attendant reduction in benefits payments; and through an increase in productivity in this country, which has a woeful record on that front largely due to lack of investment on the part of our plutocrats.

      All of this is predicated on the real economy (that is not the same as the fantasy economy of “just the same as a household budget” so beloved of our neoliberal masters), and in practice that means a return to full employment as the central policy goal: rather than the control of inflation, which has done so much damage

    61. OT … but please enjoy.

      This generation of Scots will be the last one born with “the cringe.”

      http://www.commentisntfree.com/curing-the-cringe/

    62. garles says:

      Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry Garles I’m no talking aboot Earchie I’m talking aboot his wee BLUE Tory brother … wee Davy Mundell.

      Which one?
      Mundell
      Mun-Dell
      Munnal

    63. manandboy says:

      The traditional method of preventing a repeat of insurgency,
      is to destroy the insurgents’ way of life and means of living.

      This usually meant burning their homes and possessions,
      together with taking their livestock and equipment,
      and throwing them off the land.

      Historically, the English have excelled at such clearances.

      Now, in the aftermath of IndyRef, the ‘insurgents’ have had
      the temerity to regroup, re-organise and increase their numbers
      and thereby to become a stronger force and a greater threat.

      In these circumstances, the English know only one thing to do.

      They can’t drive cattle and sheep away with them,
      but they can increase taxes.
      They can’t burn houses, but they can destroy jobs.

      They can’t ban the wearing of Scottish symbols,
      but they can cover the country in their flag –
      just to show who’s the boss.

      They can’t ban elections,
      but they can make voting meaningless.

      Westminster is already fully engaged in the process
      of degrading Scotland.
      It will continue, unless we stop it, until we are no longer
      a threat to the Union.
      Until the possibility of fresh insurgency is removed.
      Until Holyrood is a ruin.

      The Westminster Unionist Establishment
      will brook no threat to their financial or political security.

      McTernan & Murphy are fully engaged in that process.

      The above is just in case anyone was thinking
      that GE15 was about voting in the next UK Government.

      Now, what are you going to do about that?

      Are you going to hug your television even closer
      and check that you’ve paid the Licence Fee,
      and double check the availabilty of the Daily Record.

      No you’re not.
      You’re going to have a bloody good think to yourself
      about what you can DO –
      to help Scotland’s Independence come closer.

      You’re going to give yourself a shake
      and then get on your feet
      and start taking responsibility
      for what is happening in your country.
      And never again will you think ‘ it’s none o’ my business’,
      or ‘I’ll wait till everybody else is doing something first’.

      This is your business!

      And if you don’t, by God, the English will continue
      with the business of ensuring, over time,
      that the impoverishment of Scotland is complete;
      till you will have no business being there,
      and then you can follow your children
      to wherever they have emigrated to.

      Join SNP

      Vote SNP

      BE SNP.

      STOP the English trashing Scotland.

    64. jim heraghty says:

      A few things:

      re Labour ‘ten reasons’ leaflet. If a Labour government in London uses the mansion tax to increase money to Scotland for more nurses the SNP government could use it to do exactly that. So why do we need to vote Labour in 2015 or 2016?

      David Cameron suggests debate between himself and Alex Salmond. Why did he not want to do it last year?

      Stu, gonnae stop making me go to ‘The Sun’ to see if your posts are real or a joke? (risking correction by metal implements)

      Wings posters, gonnae stop having a go at people ‘cos they’re fat?

    65. Lesley-Anne says:

      garles says:

      Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry Garles I’m no talking aboot Earchie I’m talking aboot his wee BLUE Tory brother … wee Davy Mundell.

      Which one?
      Mundell
      Mun-Dell
      Munnal

      Either you were at the Burn’s Supper in Dumfries or have watched the video of said supper. Garles. 😀

      If you were at the Burn’s Supper I hear it was a fantastic night and if you watched the wee video I know you’ll have enjoyed that as well. 😉

    66. velofello says:

      Bob Mack is now utterly convinced that Murphy is a buffoon. Seven years at Uni and no degree? A man like Murphy would clutch and parade his degree trophy, but… and however, in the Uni of life:-

      J Murphy, Phd. Doctorate – thesis in study of how to lie, deceive, expenses claimant expertise, keepy uppy, side switching,and the use of a soft, caring, tender, I feel your pain, priestly voice.

      Forgot to mention hair dyeing, seems he has too. Elder statesman personna to the fore?

      Boak.

    67. call me dave says:

      @Helena Brown

      Hi Helena I agree that ‘Dave’ fears a debate with Sturgeon. Seemed odd that he hasn’t caught up with developments in North Britain.

      I can assure you that as a letter box stuffer and more from 1974 for the SNP and a life member too I did not mean to ‘promote’ Dave in any way what so ever. 🙂

      Nicola Sturgeon will be a match for all the present men North & South of the border.

    68. Cuddis says:

      @steveasaneilean 2.12
      Thanks, very informative. And in a grown up democracy your points would be the basis of a meaningful discussion to determine what as a society we want from health care. Comparing this to the main parties’ point scoring for the sole purpose of gaining or holding power makes you despair.

    69. Legerwood says:

      According to a report in today’s Herald the Tax payers Alliance has said Scotland’s budget will need to be cut by £4.5 billion by 2020.

      What is that going to do for the NHS budget?

      Labour will say that Holyrood has the powers to raise the income tax rates to protect the NHS in Scotland. But that is a very crude fiscal level.

      Raise income tax – workers want more pay – wages rise – businesses relocate to an area/country with lower wage costs and inward investment is more difficult to achieve because of the wage costs caused by the higher tax rates.

      But try explaining that to Labour.

      So raising income tax will not produce an increase in tax revenues to make up for the cut in the block grant.

      All economic forecasting including this forecast of budget cuts to come should come in a plain wrapper with a Government health warning. Or as John Kenneth Galbraith, the American economist said:

      “”The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.””

      Relevant too on the day the GERS report is published.

    70. Famous15 says:

      @mananboy

      How often does it need said that the problem is not with the English people but with the Brit establishment.Several areas of England have just as much problem as Scotland but it is up to them to collectively do as we are doing,

      O/t just completed an extensive Yougov poll on the election asking almost everything other than what I will have for breakfast on Election Day.. It toook half an hour and crashed three times,perhaps it did not like my answers!

    71. steveasaneilean says:

      @Fiona 5.02 – we are on the same side here.

      I think it is ludicrous to demand that people work till 68 or 70 9as opposed to having the choice).

      Healthcare costs are rising above and beyond inflation. This is not exclusively down to an ageing population but that is part of the issue.

      I see from my own work that we have many more elderly people with much more pathology on many more medicines and receiving many more treatments/interventions than 20 years ago.

      But one of my areas of interest is in diabetes and obesity – not an elderly issue per se. The annual cost of diabetes to NHS Scotland is currently put at £1 billion by Diabetes UK – that’s 105 of the NHS budget and the number of diabetics is rising dramatically.

      Likewise obesity is rising. At present 1 in 5 children are overweight, about half being obese. By 2030 it is estimated by SG that between one third and one half of the Scottish population will be obese at an annual cost of £3 billion.

      These are real increases in costs that have to be funded somehow.

      But please believe me when I tell you you will not find a more passionate defender of social medicine and healthcare free at the point of use than me.

      Cheers

    72. manandboy says:

      @velofello says: 11 March, 2015 at 5:40 pm
      in the Uni of life:-
      J Murphy, Phd. Doctorate – thesis in study of how to lie, deceive, expenses claimant expertise, keepy uppy, side switching,and the use of a soft, caring, tender, I feel your pain, political voice.”

      There, fixed that for you.
      Old Scottish sectarianism, we can do without thank you very much.

    73. Lollysmum says:

      Right Scotland LISTEN UP

      I’m English, live in England. Believe me, LABOUR set the NHS up for selling off despite what any of the rabid liars say now-THEY DID IT.

      They knew when they introduced PFI during their last term of office, just what the result would be & planned for it.Back in 2009, I was told(by senior council officers) that my organisation was going to have to compete with private companies & tender for any contracts in England’s Health & Social Care system & that was just the start of the chaos that they created.

      Do not listen to Labour now otherwise you will find yourselves in the same boat as England. Ed Balls, Ed Milliband, Andy Burnham & the rest of the motley crew are responsible for the mess I now see every working day.

      The tories then took over & true to form, they implemented slash & burn techniques to exacerbate the carnage created by Labour. Now they are going to cut deeper whether tories or labour are elected. Don’t vote for them-you can’t trust them. Andy Burnham wants to privatise Scotland NHS to make it the same as England’s because they will make money from it but services to communities & individuals will get far worse. Don’t let them do it.

      For your own sakes support the government you trust to look after the interests of Scotland & help them to beat off the unionist parties at the ballot box & in Westminster.

      OK rant done, I’ll get off my soapbox now 🙂

    74. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T but just seen this in everyone’s favourite Scotlnad’s Champion newspaper. 😉

      <i?THE TWO-faced Sun newspaper revealed its true colours again with an insulting description of First Minister Nicola Sturgeon as Tartan Barmy – but not for its readers in Scotland.

      Talk about pot calling kettle black! 😀

      https://archive.today/DDwXa#selection-2695.0-2699.55

    75. call me dave says:

      Herald reports that:

      ALEX Salmond has responded to David Cameron’s call for a one-to-one debate by saying that “like most posh boys” the Prime Minister would “run away from a fight”.

      As he rowed with Ed Miliband at Prime Minister’s Questions over his reluctance to take part in a programme of TV debates proposed by broadcasters, Mr Cameron said a head-to-head should actually take place between the two people who “actually call the tune – that is me and Alex Salmond” in reference to Labour’s refusal to rule out a post election deal with the SNP.

      Mr Salmond, who is vying to return to Westminster in the Gordon constituency in May, reacted by saying: “Cameron ran scared during the referendum campaign and now he’s running scared again. He should have been called to account last year and should be called to account this year.

      “Like most posh boys, given half a chance, he’ll run away from a fight. Nicola Sturgeon would eat him for breakfast in a debate.”

    76. Helena Brown says:

      Lollysmum, funnily enough I watched this happen through the medium of the pages of the Independent and I blamed Labour who managed without one word of criticism to get all these things through and this made things so much easier for the Tories. Now of course people are aware of those who have their sticky fingers in Private Medicine. Once you are aware of that you know why it is being done. I do not think we need a government of National Unity, they are definitely in support of each other.

    77. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Luigi at 4.10
      We will never get “devo max”
      We don’t want “devo max”
      Nobody know what “devo max” means anyway
      Further meaningful devolution is a complicated dogs breakfast and probably unsustainable and unworkable
      It(whatever it is) will be blocked at every turn in the hope that we’ll all lose interest and go away.

      I rather wish we would just abandon the tactic of asking them to deliver. I don’t think anybody ever expected them to deliver anyway so we are probably wasting our energies.

      All we have to do is to establish firmly in the minds of a majority that we would be comfortably self supporting and we win

    78. Helena Brown says:

      callmedave, of course you weren’t, I took it as humour don’t you worry. Oh I think Mr Cameron would really prefer not take our Nicola on. I bet he has been told how formidable she is, I don’t think he has the talent as a politician far less the passion.

    79. HandandShrimp says:

      Cameron said the head-to-head debate should be between the two people who “actually call the tune – that is me and Alex Salmond”.

      Okayyyyy…I seem to recall that a certain PM spent two years ducking that one.

      He is such a chancer.

    80. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Lollysmum.

      We like it when you go all Matron. Scotland has been chastened.

      Hope ronnie anderson hasn’t read your comment.

      Paula Rose Mk. 2?

    81. JGedd says:

      @ steveasaneilean 4.28pm @ Fiona

      I always follow your posts and Fiona’s because you both have valuable insider’s information. I certainly get your point about lack of funding to SNHS and problems retaining staff. ( Our poor infrastucture contributing and over-stretched housing sector not helping either.)

      My question is about PFI payments and how this affects the totality of SNHs funding. Does anyone have informatioon on that? Thank you.

    82. manandboy says:

      Cameron’s no use on his own.
      He has to have his gang behind him.
      TV debate? – he’s on his own.

      The guy won’t show, he hasn’t got it in him.
      Nemo dat quod non habet.

    83. gus1940 says:

      I am surprised that nobody has as yet questioned PQ’s sudden interest in Immigration in Scotland.

      Historically immigration has been fairly low on the radar in Scotland unlike in another place.

      It couldn’t possibly be anything to do with the fact that The SNP are to say the least relaxed about immigration – either that or it might be just that Eleanor Bradford is on holiday or has not managed to contrive a new Scottish NHS crisis this week.

      O/T but re the BBC – has nobody started a petition to have loathesome Clarkson sacked and charged with assault. It is a sad reflection of the tastes and values (or lack thereof) of the populace that seemingly hundreds of thousands have signed a petition to clear him and restore him to his ego-tripping nonsense program.

    84. caz-m says:

      Miliband thinks it’s democratic to have a one to one debate with Cameron. Would that not give the Labour Party an unfair amount of coverage in Scotland over the SNP.

      Labour and the Tories would get that debate AND the Scottish debate. The SNP would only get the Scottish debate. There is something very undemocratic about that deal, is there not?

      It’s either every Party is invited on to the debates or no Party is invited on to the debates.

      It’s called democracy Ed.

    85. OT:

      http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/3875349

      Common Weal are delighted to host another important event discussing innovative economic policy with two leaders in the field. The discussion will be a Q&A, and will focus on Green Quantitative Easing (QE), the e-printing of money to create ‘jobs in every constituency’, and ending tax evasion. Richard Murphy is a leading tax expert and anti-poverty campaigner. Colin Hines is the convener of the Green New Deal group.

    86. john king says:

      I have a question.
      Why is it the we should blame the Scottish government for a “deficit” over which they have no control, and are not responsable for?

      Surely that’s a little fact the Westminster lot would rather hide than highlight,
      Or are they seriously suggesting that the SNP fucked up the entire economy of the UK?

    87. manandboy says:

      Cameron & Milliband in a debate –
      Union pals together.

      Agreed script.
      No barbed attacks.
      No trap setting.
      No leading questions on areas of weakness.
      Every word on the auto-cue.

      ‘Sure’, says Dave to Ed, ‘let’s get together’.

    88. caz-m says:

      gus1940 6.55pm

      I was on about those two very things earlier on. Immigration and Clarkson.

      BBC Scotland running with things that “worked” during the Referendum.

      Next week BBC Scotland are asking if we will still be using the pound after the GE and the week after that…

      And if someone can start up a petition to get Clarkson kicked out of the Beeb, I’ll be on it like a shot.

    89. Lesley-Anne says:

      JGedd says:

      My question is about PFI payments and how this affects the totality of SNHs funding. Does anyone have informatioon on that? Thank you.

      I don’t know if this will help or hinder what you are looking for JGedd.

      However the PFI programme is projected to expand in scale, with the capital value of
      operational projects rising from £475 million in 2005/06 to an estimated £2.2 billion by
      the early part of the next decade. The additional estimated cost of meeting the
      unitary charge on these planned schemes will increase from £107 million in 2005-6 to
      £510 million a year.

      http://www.keepournhspublic.com/pdf/PFIintheScottishNHS.pdf

    90. heraldnomore says:

      There is a petition for the vastly overpaid petrol head over at change.org – sorry no links right now

    91. Mealer says:

      Half a million folk sign a petition to save the Clarkson.Be funny if someone started a petition to kick out the scrounging Jocks and millions signed it.

    92. Bob Mack says:

      @joemcg.
      As a boy I lived just next to possil,and it had a predominantly unionist bias in population.They loved marching past the Catholic church on Saracen St and stopping the march to play for a while before moving on.To this day I am informed,the lodge numbers are down,but they have many followers in the area.

    93. G4jeepers says:

      The Hub in Aberdeen

      http://www.hubnorthscotland.co.uk/NewsArticle/View/50010

      A Scottish Gov initiative.

    94. heraldnomore says:

      for the avoidance of doubt that’s a petition to ensure that not another penny of public cash lines the buffoon’s pockets…

    95. Lollysmum says:

      Cameron can’t fly by the seat of his pants in a debate. He has to have the questions in advance that’s why you never see him answering questions in press conferences etc.

      Nicola is an expert in flying by the seat of her tartan pants. She knows her brief inside out & upside down & it would take more than Cameron to beat her in a debate. With the pile-on at Questiontime she just let her opponents rant and damage themselves-such a joy to watch a canny politician at work.

      I’ve just tried to book a ticket to see a lecture Nicola’s giving at London School of Economics on Monday. Just hope I’m selected

      Tinto Chiel-why thank you sir for those kind words.
      Not competition for Paula though-I wouldn’t dare. I just get angry having lived through 6 years of their meddling & now we have the Care Act starting on 1st April meaning that people will be paying for their own social care / care home fees or do without. That’s how badly budgets are being slashed in England & this act enables them to go further still.

    96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Isn’t it a wonder that Scotland isn’t very worked up about the biggest group of immigrants into Scotland. About 8% of our total population now has immigrated here from England and we seem to be perfectly comfortable about that. Well done to us.

      I think we continually take the wrong line when reacting to figures about our economy.
      If it is under performing is this not a compelling reason to put it under new management?
      If after 300 years of a union a clever nation with huge natural resources needs subsidy then the union is a disaster.
      Turn their dire economic spin against us against them.

    97. john king says:

      Lollysmum says
      “OK rant done, I’ll get off my soapbox now ”

      Dont you bloody dare!

    98. galamcennalath says:

      Back to the original topic with the two tweets.

      There must be many more pairs like this. Situations where Labour (or their seat holders) said one thing during the referendum and are obliged to now say the opposite in a general election.

      The really sad thing is, stupid people will believe both … at the different times they were said. They will take the first as true because they are ‘Labour people’ like their faither, and his faither. And, when it comes to the second, they will have forgot they believed the first! And and, some will have so little understanding of the issues, they will not see the contradiction!

      Grumble … I am especially irritated by blind Labour followers tonight!

    99. Capella says:

      Business for Scotland has a good response to the GERS figures which the Unionists are predictably spinning as proof of Skintland the Basket Case.
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-parties-wrong-footed-on-gers-debate/

      The article ends with a link to further reading – a piece by Gordon MacIntyre -Kemp on the accounting trick that hides Scotland’s wealth.
      Worth a read if you are called on to refute bad rumours emanating from the spinmeisters.
      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/

    100. Robert Peffers says:

      I see they are at the, “Scotland is subsidised by England”, lie again.

      This fake deficit line is so easy to shoot down. Why on Earth do Scottish political figures, while being interviewed on the subject, not make it plain the reason the Barnett Formula pays more per capita to Scots is not a subsidy but to pay for the extra devolved functions that only Scotland has to stump up for while all others get the same functions provided by Westminster.

      If the bloody idiots in the Establishment are stupid enough that they do not know that then they really, really should not be allowed anywhere near legislatures that have to decide such matters. Do these idiots think that the Establishment should devolve functions to Scotland, (that were originally paid for and administered by Westminster), but expect the SG to fund them from their original per capita funding they must be totally bonkers.

      What is more wheb the BBC staff propagate that myth then they are either liars or idiots. Mind you they could be both.

    101. Joemcg says:

      Bob Mack-well that explains it. I would imagine most areas in Scotland would give the SNP canvassers a decent welcome.

    102. galamcennalath says:

      OT Clarkson … made some jibe about Scottish independence ridding England of tramps. And, Scottish exports being oil, whisky, tartan and tramps?

      Toast, I hope.

    103. Grouse Beater says:

      Mealer: Half a million folk sign a petition to save Clarkson

      How many are women?

    104. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Lollysmum.

      Chapeau bas à vous.

      Or, as we sometimes still say in Auld Cadzow, “Mair poo’er take yir elbuck.”

    105. Onwards says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:

      ..
      We will never get “devo max”
      We don’t want “devo max”
      Nobody know what “devo max” means anyway
      Further meaningful devolution is a complicated dogs breakfast and probably unsustainable and unworkable
      It(whatever it is) will be blocked at every turn in the hope that we’ll all lose interest and go away.

      I rather wish we would just abandon the tactic of asking them to deliver. I don’t think anybody ever expected them to deliver anyway so we are probably wasting our energies.

      All we have to do is to establish firmly in the minds of a majority that we would be comfortably self supporting and we win

      I disagree.
      Maximum Devolution is a huge step towards independence.
      That’s why they are so reluctant to grant it.

      It would PROVE that we can be financially self-supporting.

      Personally I think that independence will ONLY come after Devo-Max. There is also a risk there that enough people will be satisfied with that.

      But we just had a referendum, and many Scots are just too timid to take what is portrayed as a giant step.
      With Devo-Max we are more than half way there.

      Without it, any subsequent referendum would just see the UK government pull the same trick again – offering more powers at the last minute.

      I would support Devo-Max even if it meant Scotland was worse off for the first few years, because in the medium term it would be beneficial.

      Who wants to end up in a situation where London permanently subsidises everywhere else in Britain – because without a way to compete effectively, that is where we will end up.

    106. john king says:

      caz-m @ 7.08
      I cant agree with you caz-m
      Yes Clarksons an arsehole
      but he reminds me of my late brother in law
      He was a total arsehole,
      He was abrasive, abusive, unpleasant,disagreeable,
      He had an attitude about micks, paddys,spicks, wops,Dego’s, blacks, and me,
      He worshiped the ground my sister walked on,
      And I miss him terribly.

      We need more Clarksons not fewer,
      he says exactly what he thinks and screw everyone else!

      and he knew Sean Connery! (brother in law not Clarkson) 🙂

    107. Valerie says:

      Galamcennalath @7.30

      Just to redress the balance a bit. At a hustings here in Cumbernauld on Sunday, a lady in the audience, very articulately told sitting Labour Gregg McClymont, that during the referendum, he told people to vote No, and the local Tax office would remain.

      You may have read that the local Tax office here is under threat of relocation now, and said lady works for the tax office. Others in the audience were quick to point out, it’s not just about the direct jobs, but the jobs of the many surrounding small businesses that benefit from those tax employees doing their shopping in the town centre.

      Those folk did not miss their target, who sat a bit dumbfounded, but said he had a pending meeting.

    108. Author_al says:

      Capella, you should tweet the links and share on facebook etc on MP and MSPs sites… That info is gold dust and shows Scotland is being screwed by Westminster.

    109. Brian Powell says:

      Everything hinged on the SNP falling apart after the Referendum and labour being in Westminster after May.

      Murphy would be strolling into Holyrood and it would all be hunky dory. That is part of the repeated attempts to undermine the SG on all issues. If the pro Labour support, BBC etc. create a bad image, people vote on that and SNP lose Holyrood to Labour, it is then easy for Labour to say they fixed everything, because so many things weren’t wrong in the first place.

      But the SNP didn’t collapse, the Tories are likely to be in power again.

      Labour in it’s attempts to even stop minimal powers being available in the Smith proposals will come back to haunt them. it is their voters who are going to be disadvantaged with the penny anny powers in the proposals, if these ever get through at all.

      If they ever succeed in getting a majority in Hollyrood and the Tories are in Westminster, they will become aware just how much they have stripped Scotland of its ability to defend itself.

    110. X_Sticks says:

      Apologies if someone’s posted this already. Some superb posts of late folks btw.

      “Ex-Labour MP calls on party to support Scottish independence if it loses General Election

      Eric Joyce MP says Labour should consider ‘actively campaigning’ for independence to win back support”

      https://commonspace.scot/articles/662/ex-labour-mp-calls-on-party-to-support-scottish-independence-if-it-loses-general-election

    111. Capella says:

      @ Author_al
      Sorry – I don’t do tweets. Maybe someone else will be able to?

    112. heraldnomore says:

      John, he may well be all of those things, but do we need to give him £15m of public cash to smooth his ego every year? He can take it all to a commercial outlet and the public money can be far better spent.

    113. HandandShrimp says:

      On the electoral registration front it would be an idea for people to check with their local registration office to see if they are registered. I hadn’t realised that they have changed the system across the whole UK. The Head of the household can no longer look at the list of names and verify there is no change. Everyone has to register separately. You have to provide an NI number or other ID if you have been turfed off.

      This kicked in from the 19th Sept. We have to make sure people know this. If they don’t and they are deregistered this election could become an unholy mess of recriminations and accusations. There may even be ugly scenes at polling stations if they start turning away long time voters. Can’t see the election agents of parties being happy either.

    114. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Onwards at 7.47

      You have obviously been taken in. None of what you quote is on offer. None. “Devo max” has not been defined in any way.
      You can believe what you like about it but it is not there.
      Your definition of devo max and their’s bear no resemblance to each other. It is merely another diversion and an impediment to independence.

      They will continue to slice the sausage to stall our progress. Federalism probably is the next thin slice

      Any further devo whatever makes the administration of a unitary state more and more complicated and less and less practical so we will get nothing meaningful.

      The SNP tactic at the moment is designed to expose this deception not achieve devo max.

      Anything devo whatever does uncomplicated independence does better.

      And FFA, which is how they describe some scheme in which we would control everything except Foreign policy and defence, cannot be achieved without independence so that is another deception to divert the unwary. We cannot have FFA if we are contributing without consent to Trident, foreign adventures and UK armed forces.

      And my main reasons for wanting independence is that I want nothing to do with UK foreign affairs and UK defence policy

    115. Tinto Chiel says:

      Tae not take @ 7.45.

      Damn this predictive text. No Scottish accent.

    116. JGedd says:

      @Lesley-Anne 7.11 pm

      Thanks for that info. I’ll mull that over at leisure.

    117. Calum McLean says:

      Stoker at 3.22pm on 11 March 2015

      Hi Stoker,

      Lol here too. You have a point. I reckon it would be a million pounds in the WoS kitty if we all put a fiver in each time we got angry at the MSM, Westminster etc., etc.

      Even so, I can’t wait to see the tipping point of £100,000 in the WoS box as I am sure Stu will put it to very good, interesting and productive use 🙂

      Cheers,

      Calum

    118. galamcennalath says:

      X_Sticks says:

      “Ex-Labour MP calls on party to support Scottish independence if it loses General Election

      Eric Joyce MP says Labour should consider ‘actively campaigning’ for independence to win back support”

      It had occured to me that Labour might do this for the 2016 Holyrood election. However, it would be a bare faced lie like The Vow and they would have no intentions of actually making it happen!

      It would get them votes and set the possibility of actually getting independent back by years.

    119. Silverytay says:

      Dave McEwan Hill
      Well said , I will have no truck with anything that leaves Trident less than 50 miles from my front door or sends Scotland,s Sons & Daughters to fight in westminster,s illegal wars .

    120. HandandShrimp says:

      Further on voter registration, as far as I can tell they shouldn’t have taken anyone off until after the May 2015 election. It is supposed to be a phased introduction so people get used to individual registration.

      Not sure why so many are finding they are not registered. Either people are not going directly to their own electoral register office (by phone) and are using some web site or something or a screw up is the process of taking place.

      However, this will be in place by May 2016 so we need to make sure our voters know the score.

    121. heedtracker says:

      It would be interesting to have the NHS workforce polled to see how they feel about Morphy and co using them to frighten Scotland.

      Our red and blue imperial masters like Morphy Milliband Cameron, the freakin teamGB civil service, the BBC, the meeja, the City, you name it, all have to stop Scotland prospering if only because England will want the same and that would mean reform to all kinds of rule Britannia bullshit. Thatcher world changed teamGB into tory boy world and now its Scotland that can be just as radical.

      First up, strap on a pair, fuck Trident right off.

    122. Author_al says:

      O/T

      Looking for something to watch on BBC I player? Why not peruse the 16 different programmes currently available with ‘Britain’ or ‘British’ in the title.

      Or stick pins in your eyes.

    123. Lollysmum says:

      cearc

      I’ve left a message in Off Topic for you.

    124. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T here

      Interesting piece in the *ahem* Guardian.

      https://archive.today/jjAjK

      I don’t have the link yet but the Telegraph is running with a front page story about our wee Danny Alexander and an *cough* illicit donation from an Indian national.

    125. Grouse Beater says:

      Danny Alexander in deep doo-doo allegedly for accepting large donations for the Lib-Dems from illegal sources

    126. cearc says:

      The fundraiser is creeping towards the £97,000 mark. Let’s push for 6 figures.

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/let-s-carry-on-
      for-a-bit#home

      Some of youse may remember that last year lots of nice people made extra donations that were clubbed together to buy a gold badge for Ronnie Anderson.

      Well, this year Ronnie has nominated the famous, glamorous, unparalleled Paula Rose, for a crowd-funded gold badge.

      Paula Rose has walked the streets and tottered around many a muddy and fishy venue, in her stilletos, to promote Wings over Scotland in the real world. Bringing Wings to places others might not reach.

      If you want to contribute to this amazingly deserving cause. Just make another wee (or not so wee) donation to the fundraiser and put a post on
      the off-topic thread saying how much you sent.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/

      We’re nearly there £517/569.

      So any odd fivers that you might be chucking in the Wings pot can help.

    127. dennis mclaughlin says:

      to:- Cearc et al,
      please STOP IT with the 100k target shit.

      i don’t care what Paula Rose has done,we’ve all done our share without Golden Badges of Honour.

      the point of this website is to fight against the maelstrom of shite coming from the UK Govt and the Mainstream Media.

      Stu does a wonderful job on our behalf,but it is starting to put me off all this bleating about financial targets and badges.

      WOS is the highlight of my internet every single day of the year,but this is really pissing me off.

      i will be considering cutting my links with this great site because of the reason highlighted.

    128. Author_al says:

      Dennis…if getting fed up with a few people encouraging others to reach a nominal target is going to make you leave, then that is a shame. I can imagine unionist lurkers gloating over their breakfast when one of us goes on a wee rant.

      This site caters for all sizes, in a one size fits all way. There are bound to be actions done and words said that irritate others. I take it with a pinch of salt. Yes, there’s a serious issue about getting Wings to the masses, but we need to have some joy on the way. You are right, we are all deserving as we are all committed to spread the facts that Stu digs up. That said, If people want to club together, great. If people want to let off steam, great.

      Let’s do it and get on…
      The most important thing is ‘to get on’ – in every sense of the phrase.

    129. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dennis, just think of all the information you would be missing were you to sever links with this site – besides you don’t get forced to contribute money , it is purely one’s own choice and one’s own circumstances that dictate that.

      Author _Al , aye there’s British this and British that, union flags in every programme ,no matter how unlikely- even some twonk in a red,white and blue onsy at the Davis cup given several minutes of desperate coverage surrounded by union flag waving cheerleaders.

      Speaking of sporting events , how many BBBC athletes does it take to cover any athletic meet? And when does a silver or bronze medal become a ” minor” medal? Is it when the other guys win them and “we” win gold? And how come
      ” minor “medals are real trophies when ” we” win them?
      Steve Cram should reconsider the use of such a phrase as he was the recipient of a “minor ” medal some years ago.

    130. Paula Rose says:

      @ dennis mclaughlin –

      I agree let’s not get carried away with “targets” especially if it turns people like yourself away from our lovely wings. Please stay and continue to comment.

    131. stonefree says:

      @ velofello 5:40 pm
      “Seven years at Uni and no degree? ”
      Was it not 9 years? and not getting a degree,
      Rumours abound of his profiteering during those years at Uni



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