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Two impostors just the same

Posted on January 21, 2016 by

The groupthink of the Unionist commentariat is unfailingly a sight to behold. Barely a dozen weeks ago we drew attention to a seasonal crop of articles professing that the end of the SNP’s eight-year “honeymoon” was in sight, and that surely voters would surely tire at any moment of their supposed poor record in government.

culshawmcgowan

But after the damage anticipated by the press from the Forth Bridge affair and another load of ham-fisted Labour attacks failed to materialise (defused in part by a set of excellent and significantly improved NHS waiting-time stats that must have had the BBC’s Eleanor Bradford weeping inconsolably into her clipboard), the pundit hive-mind has moved swiftly on to a new outlook: morose resignation.

In the New Statesman today, political editor George Eaton rather sourly asserts that nothing will shift the Nationalist “hegemony” for a generation, as “the defining divide is no longer between left and right but between unionist and nationalist”.

His resentful tone echoes that used a few days ago in the Times by former Scotsman hack Kenny Farquharson, ostensibly reflecting on the meaning of “nationalism” in the context of the SNP’s huge surge in membership:

“The tricky thing here is to define what you mean by nationalism as opposed to, say, a patriotic love of your county or an entirely admirable desire to defend and advance the Scottish national interest.

I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the rights of Scotland and the Scots as having primacy over the rights of other nations. To put it simply, it is a branch of political philosophy that can be summed up as ‘we arra peepul, and you urny’.”

That’s a strikingly distorted way to interpret the views of independence supporters, most of whom simply seek the same rights as the people of other nations – to choose their own governments – rather than any sort of supremacy over them. It’s not Yes voters, as a rule, who want to retain nuclear weapons and throw their weight around on the world stage. But Farquharson expands:

“Nowhere is the nationalist reflex more apparent than in the SNP’s attitude to the impending EU referendum. Take Nicola Sturgeon’s view that Scotland should have a veto over Brexit. This assumes that the rest of the UK will vote to leave the EU, and Scotland (with a tenth of the UK population) will vote to stay.

Look at this, for a moment, from the point of view of an English person. Scotland cannot be dragged out of the EU against its wishes, but England can be forced to stay in against its wishes? England cannot thwart the Scottish popular will, but Scotland can thwart the English popular will?

How is that right? How does that make any sense? It only makes sense if you see an English vote as having less legitimacy than a Scottish vote. That’s nationalism for you.”

Well, no. It makes sense if you think of Scotland as a country. England is perfectly legitimately entitled to vote to leave the EU. But not wanting it to forcibly drag Scotland out along with it is a view that’s shared by far more people than just those who voted Yes to independence, if we’re to believe the series of polls which currently put the Remain vote in Scotland in excess of 65%.

It gets stranger.

“The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.

A cynic might say that the party’s policy on Brexit is designed to generate English resentment against the Scots, and undermine the social and political union.”

SNP policy has been unambiguously pro-Europe since the late 1980s. Farquharson invents a bizarre conspiracy to explain two facts which need no explaining – that the SNP wants independence and that it wants Scotland to be in the EU.

And then the twisted reasoning speeds to its conclusion:

“Meanwhile the SNP will continue to apply nationalist thinking to problems that require a spirit of co-operation. This is not good for anybody. The trouble with Scottish nationalism is it often misidentifies what is actually in the Scottish national interest.

Take the negotiations in the Smith Commission on more powers for Holyrood. The nationalist instinct was to act like a constitutional Dyson, sucking up any and every power within its reach.

Naturally, that included the maximum power over income tax. Any Scot who did not back 100 per cent devolution of income tax was a Unionist lackey and a Tory lickspittle.

Scotland’s ability to influence the political economy of the United Kingdom has been diminished because the SNP, indulging its nationalist reflex, misidentified what was best for Scotland.

At the risk of repeating myself, that’s nationalism for you.”

Hold on a minute. Who exactly were the members of the Smith Commission opposed to the total devolution of income tax? Scottish Labour’s pre-referendum interim paper on devolution said “a strong case exists for devolving income tax in full, and we are minded to do so”, and the Tories’ Strathclyde Commission report concurred:

strathclydetax

The Lib Dems’ comically slim leaflet produced by Ming Campbell was rather more circumspect, saying only that Smith ought to “allocate permanently to the Scottish Parliament control of the rates and bands of income tax” without explicitly saying that meant total devolution.

(Labour, in characteristically inept style, were all over the place. They’d back-pedalled on their position by the time the final document arrived in March 2014, calling for only three-quarters of income tax to come under Holyrood control, but then U-turned again under Jim Murphy and reverted to demanding that 100% be devolved.)

murphytax

Yet Farquharson blames “nationalism” for a change which was supported by all three Unionist parties in the Smith negotiations, and most enthusiastically by the Tories, who ultimately have complete control of the Scotland Bill.

So the narrative is constructed that the constitution dictates all in Scottish politics, and that even though the SNP are incompetent charlatans the opposition has no chance of piercing the mental armour of their unthinking cult hordes of brainwashed, independence-obsessed supporters.

As is often the case, we have to look to the Spectator’s Alex Massie for a slightly more nuanced and perceptive insight. Also writing in the Times, at the very end of December he made what may very well be the first Unionist admission in print of the unquenchable rage of the indyref victors:

massietimes

What Massie understands – at least in part – and Farquharson doesn’t is that the “nationalism” of the SNP and its supporters is neither a fad nor a demented religious faith that’s impossible to combat with reason. It’s a straightforward belief in a political ideal that can’t be squashed by a single defeat any more than any other party packs up and quits in despair after it loses an election.

Nationalists and Unionists alike are familiar with Rudyard Kipling’s classic poem “If”. But the two sides have taken very different lessons from its key verse:

kiplingif

The former, all too used to decades of uninterrupted losses, have persevered to a point where victory is within sight. But the Unionists, accustomed to generations of easy gloating and mockery of the Nats, have reacted to even a partial reverse with a panicked high-speed run-through of the five Kubler-Ross stages of grief:

DENIAL: “Having lost the referendum, the Nats will now implode and die.”

ANGER: “You lost! Why won’t you give up and move on? You’re all mad!”

BARGAINING: “We’ve delivered The Vow! Look at all the shiny new powers! Now everyone will be satisfied and the SNP honeymoon will be over.”

DEPRESSION: “The SNP will never be defeated, because evil nationalism.”

ACCEPTANCE: “Independence is inevitable.”

The last two are now the prevailing views of the commentariat and the electorate respectively. In poll after poll most Scots say they believe independence will definitely arrive, within a timeframe of anything between 5 and 25 years.

But independence is, of course, NOT inevitable. While the political and demographic trends both favour it, and the failure of the oil crash to dent polling figures has come as a stark and unwelcome shock to the Unionists, events are unforseeable and a long hard road still lies in front of the Yes movement.

The great and the good of punditry, meanwhile, have their column inches to fill, which means that sooner or later they’ll switch back – almost certainly with one voice – to denial or anger or bargaining again. It would be foolish of independence supporters to believe that their opponents’ current state of gloom meant the job was done.

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    282 to “Two impostors just the same”

    1. Mark Mair says:

      An outstanding analysis. If you need confirmation of where unionism sits in relation to the 5 stages of grief a review of daily unionist posts on the Herald or Scotsman forums will tell you all you need to know.

    2. Alistair says:

      Nail. Hammer. Head. BANG.

    3. Joemcg says:

      Brilliant Stu! That’s a great summation of where we stand now. Well written.

    4. Getifa Yabasa says:

      I celebrate their tendency to assume all SNP voters are somehow ragingly xenophobic patriots; their inability to comprehend that there just might be other reasons for the SNP’s popularity will leave them forever hamstrung by their own confirmation bias.

    5. Lesley-Anne says:

      The more THEY shout the less WE listen.

      The more THEY bang their heads off the wall the less WE care.

      The more THEY beg the less WE hear them.

      The more THEY throw their toys out the pram the less WE are able to contain our laughter.

      The more paranoid THEY become the less WE pay any attention to them.

      The more THEY exaggerate the few lies they have left the less WE believe them.

    6. jimnarlene says:

      Massie was right, “it’ll never end till they (the unionists) have lost”. And Scotland regains the right to chose, it’s own path.

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      An interesting read and the points bear out what we are seeing on social media. I have noticed recently that the swing between anger and depression on the Unionist side is almost like a metronome. To an extent Farquharson oscillates between the two in his piece.

      I go to my local SNP branch meetings and they are fun to go. People are neither anger nor depressed. There is a mixture of quiet determination and good humour.

      I don’t think there has been such comfort from a victory since King Pyrrhus won the battle of Heraclea.

    8. bobajock says:

      When you add up the lies, the media weight, the ‘tricks’, the lies (noted, the lies are of primacy here), the success of SNP, the competence of the Scottish Government, the lack of democracy at Westminster (25% in control, Scotland ignored).

      Who is left that thinks Scotland can turn back?

      I can barely watch the BBC (Attenborough excepted), I hold the press in disdain (The National excepted), I admire the Scot Gov (more open to persuasion, criticism), I am furious at Westminster and ‘England’ for dumping it on us.

      Oh, and I’m ‘British’, Half Scot half English. But painfully aware of how good it would be to be independent.

    9. Grouse Beater says:

      No dyed-in-the-wool colonialist has ever understood why the inhabitants of a country they administrate and dominate should want to take it back and run it themselves.

      They always find the illogical reason that suits their prejudices, ‘They don’t understand why it is better to be English’ or some such jingoism.

      To a neo-colonialists Scotland’s resurgence of confidence, its dissidence, has nothing to do with democracy, their reasoning being, the diluted version they allow is all the democracy we need to function as a satellite province.

      In the end, they dismiss an entire nation’s hopes with the customary, “What ungrateful bastards they are!”

    10. Doug Daniel says:

      “Scotland cannot be dragged out of the EU against its wishes, but England can be forced to stay in against its wishes? England cannot thwart the Scottish popular will, but Scotland can thwart the English popular will?”

      Kenny appears to be unacquainted with the idea of a veto, which ensures something only happens if everyone agrees with it. The double-lock the SNP propose would similarly allow England to thwart the popular will of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland if those three nations suddenly decided they wanted to leave the EU, and England suddenly decided it didn’t.

      Unionists aren’t very good at looking at situations in reverse, are they?

    11. Desimond says:

      I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the rights of Scotland and the Scots as having primacy over the rights of other nations. To put it simply, it is a branch of political philosophy that can be summed up as ‘we arra peepul, and you urny’.”

      Strange…isn’t “We arra peepul” usually a chant confined to a certain Union loving related group?

    12. HandandShrimp says:

      To be fair on the double lock I think it was only ever a warning shot over Westminster’s bows. Notice that if there was a strong in vote in Scotland then an overall out vote would lead to a significant change in the status quo.

      I doubt Cameron could have agreed to a double lock without facing a serious challenge from his own party.

    13. Keith Hynd says:

      I’m sure that in some way “hell will mend them” they just need pushed until they fall into the abyss.

      Onward to May SNP X 2

    14. Onwards says:

      It’s astounding that guys like Farquarson have such a black and white view of nationalism and patriotism. Joking aside, is there anyone here who seriously thinks that Scots want independence because we are better than everyone else?

      It’s about equality and democracy to the vast majority, and yes, an element of patriotism too – but not the powerless patriotism where Scots are expected to be content with limited devolution and the rugby.

      I suspect that most people would be quite happy with the UK if it was like the EU, a union of real nation states.

    15. Dan Huil says:

      Yet more proof that britnat journalists[!] are bricking it. Their influence wanes as it stains.

    16. Grouse Beater says:

      The saddest party of all reading Farquharson’s fatuous column and others like it, is not that the hacks are sucking up to the power elite, but that they’re Scots who don’t recognise their home nation IS a separate nation, held in a head lock by a one-way Union, constrained and restrained in what it can do to better itself.

      Even when Labour, Tory and Lib-Dems in union prove it by telling the electorate they will subvert the democratic process by making Scotland bankrupt should it vote Yes, they STILL can’t accept the brutal truth.

      Those that do presume the dominant culture is the superior culture. Therein lies the cringe, inherited, indelible.

      Who the hell taught them to believe that?

    17. Luigi says:

      Another brilliant piece of work.

      Rev, you must have been in a generous mood today, mentioning as you did, the LibDems, although even a single sentence is too much for those non-entities. 🙂

      Wow! I think Alex Massie, for once hits the nail squarely on the head. It’s good to see at least a trace of reflection and common sense by one unionist commentator. 🙂

      You see, Alex, we understand the unionist mindset completely (it’s not exactly deep, is it). You yoons, however, still fail to understand us at all. It does not require a high level of intelligence, and I acknowledge that not all of you are as thick as red tory councillors. Let’s cut to the chase: You lot don’t understand us because you don’t want to understand us – perhaps you are also terrified of hearing the arguments honestly, and becoming infected or “brainwashed” to the cause. 🙂

      Try taking off those unionist blinkers, and everything will be a lot clearer. 🙂

    18. K1 says:

      Aye, get over it unionists…you won. And by won I mean we’re merely giving you time to adjust to reality. It’s over…bar your greetin’ faced moanin’ about it all the time.

    19. handclapping says:

      @Grouse Beater
      Indeed but the emphasis is on the ungratefulness they never, ever think on the fact that bastardy is never the fault of the bastard.

    20. Truth says:

      At the risk of sounding controversial, demographics are not necessarily moving in our direction.

      There is a marked “white flight” from England which I believe is only going to increase. The type of people who are motivated to “white flight” are just the sort of people to vote no.

    21. george says:

      very good analysis, very well put.

    22. Bob Mack says:

      The latest thing I have heard from a couple of Union Reps is the intention to spread the theory that Nicola is getting above herself.The idea is that mud sticks.

      I did not leave the idea unchallenged as you can imagine.
      However it just goes to show the old maxim in football that if you cannot play the ball you play the man.

      Desperate times to be a Unionist,unable to rid yourself of something that is sucking the life blood out of everything you want to stay the same.

    23. Colin Church says:

      I always get lost reading the Yoons

      Did he really mean England there? Shouldn’t that be UK? Does he mean Britain or UK there? etc.

      Always ends up with the ProdScotBut’s rushing to lend their weighty words to the support of the poor, under-represented and enfeebled – colonial Establishment position!

    24. One_Scot says:

      To be honest the drive for Independence will never go away until it is achieved. I would genuinely be surprised if anyone, no matter what their view, does not believe this to be the case.

      One of the fundamental laws of the universe is that everything will die. The question unionists have to ask themselves is – ‘Is it worth wasting energy only to prolong a slow and painful death.’

    25. Dan Huil says:

      @Truth 12:11pm

      Good point.

    26. mealer says:

      That Rudyard Kipling is nearly as good as Wee Ginger Dug.

      The best people to run a country are the people who live there.Once you get that idea in your head it is pretty hard to shift.Its a perfectly reasonable,rational idea.When journalists try to portray it as a cultish,lunatic fringe idea they just make themselves look foolish.

    27. Colin Church says:

      @Truth

      Has always been there with silvertops snapping up homes / downsizing from loose change after selling in SE. Will take all the freebies but hate SNP and idea of Scots independence.

      Tories will push a younger demographic out of England now.

      How that plays out is unknown but the “Brits abroad” mentality of the Costa’s settlers does not bode well.

      Truly ironic when the little Englanders want all their arriving populations to “assimilate”.

    28. Lesley-Anne says:

      Apologies for O/T

      Apparently oor wee Kez has found ANOTHER way to spend the non existant non cut A.P.D. money she would NOT save from the S.N.P. cutting A.P.D. … 650 new nurseries are needed … apparently! 😀

      So if my maths are correct here 😉 , I have a wee doubt as Jackie Baillie STILL has the BBC calculator :), then oor Kez will spend the NON money saved from her NON cut of A.P.D. on:

      a) education

      b) tax credit cut reversion

      c) £3,000 “gift” to new first time house buyers

      d) building 60,000 new houses

      e) 650 new nurseries

      My but she is certainly getting through what is needed is she not? 😀

      Is it too early to start a wee book on what she will spend her NON saved A.P.D. money on next Thursday? 😀

    29. I do worry about the complacency of some of those in the independence movement who believe the inevitability of independence.

      Independence won’t happen unless we make it happen by continuing to work hard and persuade more and more people that independence is their best interests.

      Because make no mistake the British unionist establishment will never willingly give up their control of Scotland.

      They will use every under hand trick imaginable, and remember they are masters of this having used the same tactics on the foreign countries they ruled during the Empire.

      It also causes me anguish when I hear and read of independence supporters writing off Labour, claiming Labour is finished etc.

      You don’t boast about having killed a rat until the rat is actually dead.

    30. HaggisHunter says:

      Great comparison using the five Kubler-Ross stages of grief,which I have noticed in Unionist behaviour and comments.

    31. Bob Mack says:

      The simple truth is that these people see themselves as British. Being Scottish is an accident of birth.

      They have become emeshed in the British state through jobs,family,honours,and many other factors.To leave the British State is to leave their identity and their security.It is all they have known.

      We the promoters of independence may have many of the same factors in our own lives,but we have learned that the British State is an organism which first and foremost serves its own needs before everything else.

      I want something better for my grandchildren,and it is very achievable. I will not alter my course on this till my dying day.

    32. heedtracker says:

      Its a very simple question for the future, not matter what red and or blue toryboys whine.

      Do you want another country to run Scotland?

    33. K1 says:

      Aye true mealer, how come unionists politicians are always on about ‘local government’, and bringing power closer to the people etc but fail to see that’s exactly the same concept in essence as self determination.

      We want our government closer to us. We want to have a say in how our lives are affected by decisions made at government level, more saliently we want a stake in being part of that very decision making process.

      We’re done wi ‘top down’, we want interactive and engagement across our society.

    34. bjsalba says:

      @Bob Mack

      Seen the Express Front Page today? Nicola named.

      Apparently investigating ways to do things better is “getting it wrong”.

      Do they think our heads zip up the back?

    35. Almannysbunnet says:

      Truth says:
      21 January, 2016 at 12:11 pm
      There is a marked “white flight” from England which I believe is only going to increase. The type of people who are motivated to “white flight” are just the sort of people to vote no.

      I’ve heard of the “white flight” of people out of London over the last 5-10 years, quoted at 600,000 but not of a “white flight” from England to Scotland. Where are you getting that from?

    36. heedtracker says:

      No matter what red and or blue toryboys whine, sorry.

      Went to see blue toryboy,future MSP, future Lord Tomkins of Ljubljana West, at Glasgow uni debate society last night and a great deal of effort is now being spent trying desperately to bullshit Scotland that our tory chums in the south no longer run Scotland, its all about devo-max being “given,” SNP voters are actually quite thick, quite deluded, quite possibly fascist and its all merely bubble that’s going to burst. A very tory society.

      A bubble or foundation, Scotland?

    37. DerekM says:

      i will repeat this for all you dumb ass hacks I AM NOT THE SNP 120,000 SNP members does not equate to 1.6 – 2 million yes voters,please go back to school and learn how to count.

      Will i vote for the SNP hell yes why because they are the only party fit to do the job of governance in this whole pathetic little island called Britain not just because they share my ideals of freedom for Scotland one of the nations of said island,i am so sick of hearing Britain referred to as a nation it fucking well is not and neither is the UK for that matter.

      We gave you a chance to show us you could all be grown up and mature about this constitutional dilemma facing the UK only to find ourselves barraged by hatred fear and lies well fuck you we will be taking our independence so keep your hankies handy as you will be doing a lot of crying in 2016 and 2017 as we havnt even got started yet.

      Sorry rant over 🙂

    38. schrodingers cat says:

      Scottish independence was always a bubble, floating on a sea of events, most of which are outside of our control. A yes vote would have burst the bubble and allowed us to paddle in a direction of our chosing. The no vote did not burst that bubble, it just left it floating on the sea.

      while this sea of events is mostly outwith our control, it doesn’t mean these events don’t sometimes push the bubble in the direction we wish to go.

      we moan about the msm, but they are about to unleash a project fear against everyone in the uk, against us, the 45+, who no longer care what they say, but also against the 55-, who still do….

      for a short time, the msm will forget about the cybernats and spend all their energies giving the 55- a good doing over with handbags and cricket bats. for a short time they will be aligned with us and doing our job for us. they have no choice, they must beat the ruk into submission, hitting the 55- in Scotland at the same time is an unavoidable consequence of their tactic.

      England voting to leave the EU, (Scotland will vote to stay, no question) offers us the best chance of kick starting a re=invigorated and winnable indyref2, and Cameron knows it. his only chance of stopping this is to ensure England votes to stay and this next few months will not be a bloodless coup.

      inevitable result? the bubble will continue to expand. what is not to like?

    39. Joemcg says:

      Looking at history and independence fights once the populace get their bit between their teeth there is only one outcome. Hell even a tyranny like the Soviet Union succumbed in the end to many new and old nations. It’s inevitable.

    40. Macart says:

      The media bubble believe what they want to believe and make up ever more convoluted bollox to underpin their arguments. They always have.

      They never allow facts or evidence to get in the way of a good piece of misrepresentation. (shrugs)

      It hasn’t occurred to them yet that their guff bears no resemblance to people’s actual experience of a thing. Their half arsed, half realised, poorly researched and until recently, completely unchallenged scribblings were the very last word on any subject. Equally it hasn’t occurred to them that in today’s information and communication revolution, no one need take that word at face value any longer and that with only a little effort folk can not only verify a thing, but they have every right to challenge and complain if an article or narrative isn’t up to scratch.

      If those complaints go unheeded for long enough, people simply switch off, walk away, use their democratic and consumer’s right to withhold their support for an institution to make their point. Just like now as it happens.

      The meeja can keep their metrocentric self obsessed, self righteous bubble, their pigeonholing, their stereotyping and their half arsed theories. Some of us are fed up being told who to hate on a day to day basis.

    41. schrodingers cat says:

      heedtracker

      it appears that we are both, forever blowing bubbles…

    42. mealer says:

      Bob Mack 12.33
      No,you won’t alter your course on this,but the fact is many thousands of Yes voters will have to alter course if the union is to survive.This is where the air of inevitability comes from.It does our cause no harm if we seize it and use it and work with it.The “it’s going to happen anyway so we might as well get on with it now” thing.

    43. ScottishPsyche says:

      I wonder when it will sink in to Unionists that people are voting for the SNP because they want to, because they see a point to voting for them? Not to blackmail Westminster or the rUK, but because people know that whatever their failings they have Scotland’s interests at their core.

      Similarly, in voting to stay in the EU, because it is not about giving up one type of sovereignty for another but the chance to be listened to in our own right about what is best for Scotland. Remember the ridiculous situation whereby a Lord spoke on our behalf about fishing rights and yet Holyrood spokesman who knew the situation inside out, had to stand on the side lines?

      I saw a comment (sorry I should try to give due credit but I can’t remember who ) where parallels were drawn between what the SNP has become, a large umbrella organisation, and the ANC.I can see some merit in that and it is therefore difficult to try to define its politics as left or right as is very much in a state of flux, as is Scotland. This is perhaps why the Indy Left are struggling to establish a base.

      Massie touches on the fact that there is more than ‘nationalism’ to the SNP support but Farquarson seems blind and can only see things in relation to the game playing over power and identity. He cannot see the point of SNP is to strive for independence and make the Scotland the best it can be for its population not nationalism for the sake of it.

      The whole point of the ‘settled will of the people’ is that when BOTH sides are content with the outcome it is settled. The will of the people is far from settled for now and that is what the Unionists cannot see.

    44. Almannysbunnet says:

      @Lesley-Anne says:
      21 January, 2016 at 12:30 pm
      Apparently oor wee Kez has found ANOTHER way to spend the non existant non cut A.P.D. money

      In the history of economics never has so much been squeezed from so little.
      She is still squeezing APD. By May she will have squeezed out the entire Scottish budget and cleared the UK national debt. The Nobel prize for economics surely beckons.

    45. I can only stand back and applaud all of you who, read, watch or listen to the unionist propaganda, and provide us foot soldiers with more ammunition on the doorstep. Personally, I gave up a long while ago, as I just got angry at their incessant lying, so keep up the good work and we’ll get independence sooner rather than later.

    46. Andrew McLean says:

      The first thing is we need control of broadcasting, excellent programs like Outlander are being deliberately and systematically removed from Scottish view.
      Culturally STV and the BBC are foreign based broadcasters, not one actually mirrors the civic nationalism that has arisen in Scotland, the pig shaggers intervention, done as he believed that the rise of the SNP was on the back of Mel Gibson’s Bravehart, as nonsense as this sounds, has a cornel of truth.

      Incidentally RTE have a excellent program called Rebellion, I am on my third VPN as the rest fall off as blocked.

      One newspaper “The National” isn’t enough we need better control so the British Empire propaganda is met square on with a broadcaster who gives a Scottish voice. Not for one second am I suggesting a pro SNP stance, but the constant imperial broadcasts from our colonial masters is meant to destroy our cause.

      Over to you Jackie can we hear from members of the party with one MP whilst completely ignoring the 56 MP’s,
      “Yes Jackie I am A British Labour person and can I start by saying we wont use the name Scotland just the towns, and also I will be saying SNP BAD till my tongue falls off, which will be sooner that any attempt by you to stop my tirade of SNP BAD”!

    47. Phil Robertson says:

      “Well, no. It makes sense if you think of Scotland as a country. England is perfectly legitimately entitled to vote to leave the EU.”

      Where were you in 2014? We had a referendum. As a result of that Scotland in NOT a country. The majority voted to be part of the UK.

      So Farquharson’s point is quite valid. It is a democratic nonsense to insist that votes in one area somehow carry more weight than others. Yorkshire ahas a population not far short of Scotland’s. Do they get a veto?

      The identifying feature of being a democrat is to recognise that, now and again, you will have to accept things you don’t agree with if those things are the will of the majority.

    48. Dr Jim says:

      The Yoons are obsessed with this hatred idea instead of just looking at it simply
      England is our next door neighbour, we’re not going anywhere all we want to do make changes to our own house, maybe an extension maybe a few Petunias in the garden without asking permission or being told NAW YEEZ CANNAE

      Stu’s absolutely right, you won the Referendum now get over it, Independence isn’t going away, it’s on, now, just accept the inevitable even if you make it seem like it’s your idea we don’t mind, just get on with it

      You know it makes sense

      SNPxSNP Just to rub it in

    49. JLT says:

      A brilliant piece, Stuart.

      But independence is, of course, NOT inevitable. While the political and demographic trends both favour it, and the failure of the oil crash to dent polling figures has come as a stark and unwelcome shock to the Unionists, events are unforseeable and a long hard road still lies in front of the Yes movement.

      There are so many factors that can either lead to independence or see it drift into partial oblivion (which as we all know, is what the Unionists are really aiming for, and hoping will pass …’nationalist stagnation’). They are praying that somehow, the Independence movement loses the plot and become slightly more extreme with their views, thus putting others off, or that the SNP come up with a mad policy, that not only has the public looking at them as though they were demented, but creates such a schism within the party, that it doesn’t recover for a good generation or so.

      However …at the moment, it appears that all the Unionist nightmares are slowly heading towards the perfect storm; The Tories and Labour torn in two over the EU; the possibility of a real divide in England whatever way the EU vote goes (it’ll make the fallout from our Referendum look like a tiff in the kiddies playground); the oil prices keep dropping which means that fields that were profitable a year ago are no longer manageable from an economic point of view (imagine if they have to mothball oil fields, thus leaving the oil intact and possibly for a future independent Scotland …I can hear the shrieks from Westminster now); austerity, austerity, austerity …it’s creating a real divide between rich and poor, north and south.

      All in all …the Unionists are now being caught on too many fronts – too many battles to fight, and some of the battles contradict arguments that they lay out with one hand, but find it clashes with other proposals in the other hand (EU bad v Brit Union good …it’s a hard one to win when your hotfooting over the same advantages and disadvantages when both could apply to either Union).

      The Unionists forgot that one saying prior to the Scottish Referendum of 2014 …be careful for what you wish for.

      Well, they kept us …now they have to live with the consequences …and to be honest …I don’t think they really know what they want …or what to do with us…

    50. ArtyHetty says:

      It’s worth pondering that myth about being touted about the people of Scotland thinking that they are better than everyone else.

      It is typical of those who are miffed to project their massive egos and to display total arrogance, as a result of losing their control over the people who they hold in utter contempt.

    51. EphemeralDeception says:

      Kenny Farquharson above is hypocritical, disingenuous and backs up personal opinion with more personal opinion as somehow fact.

      His only major fact, written as some kind of revelation of blunt truth’ was: SNP wants ‘Britain to break up’. ( It would be a revelation if it was meaning Geologic activity)

      He is a hypocrite as I see he has no issue with UK having a veto in EU despite having a minority population.
      He also says its admirable to defend your countries rights and interests except for Scotland that obviously he considers only a region and so isn’t fair to let Scotland assert itself in any way.

      The summary of the text is: England has divine right to choose and rule over Scots based on numbers in all things and Scots should know and keep their place. Those Scots who dont want to keep their place (the SNP and supporters) are the bad kind of nationalists, who don’t know whats in their own interest.

      Even Shorter summary: Patronising garbage.

    52. Karmanaut says:

      Farquharson and his ilk are writing from a bubble of incomprehension and ignorance, so this sort of unionist fantasy is very typical. In a way it’s quite reassuring so see how little of the political situation they grasp.

    53. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Grouse Beater

      “The French want no-one to be their superior. The English want inferiors. The Frenchman constantly raises his eyes above him with anxiety. The Englishman lowers his beneath him with satisfaction.

      Alexis de Tocqueville (29 July 1805 – 16 April 1859)

      If he were alive today, I wonder what he would have said about our Uncle Tams?

    54. heedtracker says:

      schrodingers cat says:
      21 January, 2016 at 12:52 pm
      heedtracker

      it appears that we are both, forever blowing bubbles…

      Lucky bubbles:D

      As toryboy henchman like oor Kenny do their UKOK rules the waves thing, rancid The Graun take the “you don’t exist sweaties, so shaddap” route, with unionist hacks like Rupert Carrell explaining to his Scottish reader, SNP bad, Fluffie Mundell COMMANDS respect for coming out, my Scotland region has weather etc.

      How the mighty make fools of themselves.

    55. Kenny Farquharson like the idiot son of Allan Massie are just seething britnats with a fatal dose of Scottish cringe,

      instead of standing up to the media establishment bullies who coerce and tyrannize the citizens of Scotland they side with them in fear of being mocked by the sneering UK media circle.

    56. Paula Rose says:

      Oh dear I see someone at 1:04 still doesn’t understand what the referendum was even about yet still comments here – shame really.

    57. galamcennalath says:

      Brilliant article! Highlighting just how inaccurate the picture painter by Unionist commentators is.

      What the Hell is actually going on?

      1) they are really stupid. An explanation, but somehow I doubt it.

      2) cognitive dissonance, as a world view and truths they held as fundamental are being challenged, logic is suspended and evidence ignored.

      3) propaganda, where the twisted reality has a target audience and supports someone’s agenda. Classic deception with blatant lies to mislead a particular group of less savvy people.

      Perhaps an indecipherable cocktail of all three!

    58. Andrew McLean says:

      Paula Rose says 1:04

      Paula the world is full of idiots, its only fair that our country Scotland, Sovereign and Proud takes its fair share!

    59. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Now to the matter at heart, the article.

      Easily one of the best I have read on the blog, assuredly so.

      It needs to be read a few times over to pick up the absolute borrach the Naysayer are in.

      They won a round but are about to lose the match and they are beginning to realise it, despite throwing everything at us. Ee are just treating their attacks as spent musket balls; with contempt, disdain and bared arses.

      The complete disorder of the Establishment and MSM is telling.

      Anyone else think that we are close to a decisive tipping point, maybe May.

      Only question is, what will their quiet nasty hidden wing do to poison the well before they will be forced to quit?

      They always shit somewhere before they go, their flags and bunting flying high and their ceremonies of flags

    60. Janet says:

      Interesting to note that the doom and gloom Forth Road Bridge stories turn out to be mince. Failure of a component not failure by government to spend.

      Engineers could not readily inspect the failed part due to difficult access, and therefore, didn’t realise that it had jammed. Plenty of media coverage out there. Please share and spread the word!

      Who is going to tell Dr Scott Arthur?

      In May, I’ll make it SNP / SNP just to rub it in!

    61. schrodingers cat says:

      in the 70’s, the snp was a single issue party of protest with no real policies or goals other than independence.

      salmond changed that by turning a party of protest into a party of government. (like changing CND into the Green party) this initially was not universally popular within the snp, but it worked, the snp won in 2007 and 2011,

      the referendum reversed this trend. we are now back to being a single issue party of protest. proof?

      if for some bizarre reason, Tommy Sheridan had been seen as the best bet, after sept 19, to bring about Scottish independence, we would all now be members of solidarity. if the numbers for the eu referendum were reversed, ~I would be here asking you to vote OUT

      the unionist msm have missed this but so has rise, the greens, the even the snp. I couldnt care what policies rise the greens or even the snp propose. If you genuinely want an eco friendly socialist republic, the only way to bring this about is by independence.

      funnily enough, this is the exact same point I was making to others in the snp in the 80’s, eg, whether the snp policy was for a republic or a monarchy was a complete irrelevance since unless we were independent, that choice wasn’t ours to make.

      the most important point to come out of the referendum, one I had been banging on about for years, and could prove it, was that it didn’t matter who we voted for, our votes could never change anything at Westminster. this is still true.

    62. farnorthdavie says:

      So Farquharson makes this an ‘us and them’ thing or to paraphrase his words an English and Scottish thing.

      This harks back to the msm/unionist comments during the run up to the referendum where they always talked about ‘the Scots’.

      Did they and do they still not understand that it was the people of Scotland who had a vote, no matter their nationality. I had and still have English friends and neighbours who voted yes and would do so again.

      Let’s hope that we get the opportunity to take control of our country’s future before Westminster and its lackies asset strip it completely.

    63. Taranaich says:

      I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the rights of Scotland and the Scots as having primacy over the rights of other nations. To put it simply, it is a branch of political philosophy that can be summed up as ‘we arra peepul, and you urny’.”

      I usually define arrogance as ‘my opinion right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the opinions of ‘me’ and people who think the same as ‘me’ as having primacy over the opinions of other individuals. To put it simply, it is a branch of philosophy that can be summed up as ‘wur opeenyuns ur richt, and yours urny’.”

      The Oxford Dictionary defines nationalism in the following terms:

      1 Patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts: “an early consciousness of nationalism and pride”

      1.1 An extreme form of patriotism marked by a feeling of superiority over other countries: “playing with right-wing nationalism”

      1.2 Advocacy of political independence for a particular country: “Scottish nationalism”

      Why does Mr Farquharson choose only the second definition? Who made him arbiter of words and their meanings?

    64. EphemeralDeception says:

      @Phil Robertson,

      You would have a point if the article had stated that Scotland is only a region and continued that line of argument. Instead the article paints a picture of Proud Scots allowed to pretend to be a country, to want whats best for their country but run and treated as a region.

      The Unionists need courage of their convictions either we are Scotland and England in a Union or we are all Brits with no more England/Scotand existing at all, it can’t be both. The referendum was not about merging Scotland and England into one entity on a no vote.

      It does however effectively mean we accept majority vote through the UK as you said. Except EU vote is another constitutional one so all bets are off. Scots can rightly decide: we wanted to remain part of the UK within the EU but if England insists in taking UK out either we are a ‘partner’ and get a veto or we are an inferior member and have to follow or vote out of the Union.

      The status is we are an inferior UK partner and voted to continue that.

      The comparison with Yorkshire is also flawed as the Unionists See England as a country and Yorkshire as a region of it, but Scotland as but a region ‘with benefits’.

    65. schrodingers cat says:

      my Scotland region has weather …..

      mmmm, there’s a lot of it about…

    66. One_Scot says:

      Come May, there is only one equation that gives the correct answer,

      SNP x 2 = Independence

    67. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Where were you in 2014? We had a referendum. As a result of that Scotland in NOT a country. The majority voted to be part of the UK.”

      The UK is, allegedly, not a country either, but a union of countries. That’s why JK Rowling has a Scotland international rugby team to support. Yorkshire is not one of the countries in the union.

    68. galamcennalath says:

      Doug Daniel says

      “Unionists aren’t very good at looking at situations in reverse, are they?”

      Classic sense of entitlement. Rules are only meant to apply to someone else.

    69. heedtracker says:

      The identifying feature of being a democrat is to recognise that, now and again, you will have to accept things you don’t agree with if those things are the will of the majority.

      That’s what a lot of the UKOK bullshit waffled away out by likes UOK Prof Adam Tomkinski, Phil Robertson. “We” voted NO, shut up.

      Thing is Phil, that makes complete UKOK sense until it meets real world Scotland and why is there a The Vow devo-max historic fraud?

      But even if Daily Rancid, UKOK BBC, Project Fear, BetterTogether, red/blue Tory parties etc hadn’t jumped in lastminute.com with their The Vow fraud on Scotland, YES voters would still be perfectly entitled to campaign for the Scottish nation, to not be run by our neighbours.

      Like you say Phil Robertson, its democracy, still.

    70. schrodingers cat says:

      Phil Robertson
      Where were you in 2014? We had a referendum. As a result of that Scotland in NOT a country. The majority voted to be part of the UK.

      The identifying feature of being a democrat is to recognise that, now and again, you will have to accept things you don’t agree with if those things are the will of the majority

      and where will you be on sept 18th 2015, after the ruk pulls Scotland out of the eu in june’s referendum, when the majority in scotland vote to leave the UK?

      The identifying feature of being a democrat is to recognise that, now and again, you will have to accept things you don’t agree with if those things are the will of the majority

      there, fixed that for you. you’re welcome 🙂

    71. Les Wilson says:

      An excellent analysis Stu, the rabit retoric will become more so, they fear Scottish democracy like never before.

      The English media will never accept true democracy in Scotland, and will be more and more extreme in their pursuit to destroy it with mind games that will have far less effect than their Indy efforts had.So they have a big problem.

      They have nothing left but to belittle us, deride anything in Scotland that is good. The charge is shamefully made by the EBC, from the public purse. We pay them to work against us, how handy is that for them. All the UK media is rotten to the core, just like their Westminster masters.

      They will promote everything British until we are sick to death of it, if indeed we are not already. There is no level they will not sink, to maintain, what really is, proved by their actions, an occupation of the most devious kind.

    72. Dorothy Devine says:

      Taranaich, I like your definition very much.

    73. Luigi says:

      galamcennalath says:

      21 January, 2016 at 1:16 pm

      What the Hell is actually going on?

      1) they are really stupid. An explanation, but somehow I doubt it.

      2) cognitive dissonance, as a world view and truths they held as fundamental are being challenged, logic is suspended and evidence ignored.

      3) propaganda, where the twisted reality has a target audience and supports someone’s agenda. Classic deception with blatant lies to mislead a particular group of less savvy people.

      You will meet bona fide examples of all three types in Union street. IMO type 2 is by far the most common.

    74. JGedd says:

      Phil Robertson at 1.04.

      Sounds like the “settled will” argument again. It is perfectly democratic to go on voicing a desire for something else. People in the unionist camp want us to shut up, we get that. hence the irritation being exhibited.

      By the way, it might actually cause consternation among some of those who voted “No” by suggesting that they had voted their country out of existence. It might be a bit too blunt, if honest, to tell them that that is precisely what you thought they were voting for.

    75. HandandShrimp says:

      Phil

      So you are saying that the vote in 2014 was for Scotland not to be a country but just a region.

      I wonder how many No voters realised that.

    76. Joemcg says:

      Thought for the day:-Scotland=Yorkshire. Not to the 45% now 50% it doesn’t.

    77. Capella says:

      @ BtP – reminds me of Winston Churchill:
      “Dogs look up to me. Cats look down on me. Pigs look me straight in the eye.”

    78. Paula Rose says:

      If only the question asked in the referendum had been –

      Do you think Scotland should be a region of England.

    79. Phil Robertson says:

      “The UK is, allegedly, not a country either, but a union of countries.”
      O.K. skip the juvenile pedantry – it’s the sovereign unit that is a member of the EU which is what matters here.

      “That’s why JK Rowling has a Scotland international rugby team to support”
      And my granny has a cat which is as relevant as that spuriosity.

      “Yorkshire is not one of the countries in the union.”

      So that still doesn’t address the point of why voters in Scotland have a veto that the same number of voters in Yorkshire don’t have. Maybe they’re not part of the peepul.

    80. heedtracker says:

      I wonder how many No voters realised that.

      Like a lot of UKOK unionists that won the referendum, they have decided that this referendum was the last referendum ever, because they won.

      Which is very democratic, UKOK wise.

      If youre still out there Phil, yes we know Salmond said “once in a generation opportunity” but there are number of things that dont make that statement binding on anyone, as unionistas know full well, red or blue tory.

      And it clearly was a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland, one that BBC/Project Fear terrorises a lot of Scots away from, or can they?

      Next time.

    81. Hamish McTavish says:

      @Phil Robertson 1:04pm

      I suggest you have a hunt through some of Robert Peffer’s post on the historical context of the Treaty of Union. Here’s one of his posts from the previous topic posted by Stuart.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/phew-that-was-close/#comment-2105067

      It also covers the B of E (just in case you start off down that ill-informed path as well)

      Robert has posted many informative items over the past few years and you should be able to find most of them via a Google search if you include “wings” in the search term.

    82. Andrew McLean says:

      Capella says: 2:05 pm

      It may remind you of Winston Churchill, but it reminds me of David Cameron and conjures up another image:

      Yes they have went from ” we will fight them on the beaches, etcetera” to Hear piggy piggy don’t squeal its David with a present for you!

    83. frogesque says:

      MSM yoonery buffoonery best sums it up.

      SNP for Constituency Rep.
      SNP for Regional Party

    84. Phil Robertson says:

      “YES voters would still be perfectly entitled to campaign for the Scottish nation, to not be run by our neighbours.”

      Absolutely no argument with that.

    85. Joemcg says:

      Remember Cameron’s speech a few days before the vote saying the UK was a unique Union of “four nations” then a few months later stood beside a billboard claiming it was one nation? Ah the chameleon like unionist. Move the goalposts on a whim.

    86. chitterinlicht says:

      Excellent article and analysis Stu.

      By Jingo that Kenny Farqu is a tad off the mark. Does he understand nothing about where most of are in our thinking -patronising dribble.

      Credit to Alex Massie for at least understanding what is going on. Only unionist journo i still follow on twitter. And if he is reading this can i have my jacket back!

    87. Smith says:

      The tricky thing here is to define what you mean by nationalism as opposed to, say, a patriotic love of your county or an entirely admirable desire to defend and advance the Scottish national interest.

      Can’t read the original article behind the wall, but ‘county’…?

    88. Before the time on my computer session ends.

      Didn’t Tory MP David Mundell imply that the treaty of union meant that Scotland ceased to exist?

    89. Dr Jim says:

      You know it’s working when the Trolls appear with their Scotland not a country crap

      If that’s the case I definitely misread the ballot paper I marked my wee cross on and demand another Referendum at once

      “Do you agree that Scotland shouldn’t be a Country”

      Let’s have that on the ballot paper next time, in fact just have another Referendum tomorrow afternoon and try that one out, we won’t need Prof Poultice to predict the result

      SNPxSNP….. Aren’t we irritating

      Ooh! Ooh! I think my mind control’s wearing off, must go and look at a Foty of the FM and I’ll be alright

    90. Iain More says:

      Uhmm what honeymoon?

      As far as I can make out there has been a poisonous daily tirade in the Press and Media against the SNP, SG, Scots and Scotland since the Holyrood Election of 2007.

      In other words there has been no honeymoon!

    91. Iain says:

      Farquharson is one of that type of Labour supporter we’ve all come across, whose mind became fixed in the teenage years: Labour is right, Labour is socialist, Labour is good, Labour is the only party anyone decent could vote for. Anybody who doesn’t support Labour, whatever its policies and whatever the counter-socialist conduct of its representatives, is wrong and just can’t see the truth, or is quite probably evil. And you have to keep on believing that, whatever evidence hits you between the eyes, because otherwise all your years of faith will have been wasted, and you’ll have to admit to yourself that you were a credulous fool.

      Hence the rants, hence the bitterness. It’s pretty tragic: the dream is lost for ever; the angst will never go away. You’ve got to feel pity.

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Colin Church says: 21 January, 2016 at 12:17 pm:

      “Did he really mean England there? Shouldn’t that be UK? Does he mean Britain or UK there? etc.”

      Very well spotted, Colin. That was my first thoughts on reading the quoted parts of George Eaton’s column.

      Like most UK Unionists he is ignorant, badly educated and utterly confused by the simple English language terms he attempts to use as the basic tools of his chosen trade.

      Would you buy a piece of furniture from a cabinet maker who was unable to differentiate between a Jack Plane and a Block Plane?

      Yet this obviously poorly educated numptie, in common the average unionist, does not seem to be able to differentiate between England, the country, England, The Kingdom and the United Kingdom. Indeed he fails to differentiate between the United Kingdom, Britain and Great Britain.

      It is this failure to tell the difference that leads to such idiocies as the confusion of clear thinking shown in this,



      “The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.


      There is no such thing as a Unified Britain far less a Federal Britain. As no such political entity exists as, “Britain”. The term is defined as a geographic group of islands.

      These islands actually contain eight distinct countries – Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Bailiwick of Jersey, Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Isle of Man. Only four of which are governed by the Parliament of the UK.

      To be British is to belong to any one of those eight countries. It is this bland UK Unionist mind-set that the UK is a country, and that it is all Britain, is the great big flaw that is central to the Unionist arrogant ignorance.

      It is evident Mr Eaton is subject to all such Unionist wrongheadedness. Until such times as these ignorant numpties get their heads round the true facts they will remain the very most ugly face of the worst possible form of nationalism.

      No one needs be an Einstein to deduce that a Nationalist who is unable to define his/her own nation correctly is attempting to subjugate some nation, or nations, that are not part of the Nation they seek to be their own.

    93. Iain More says:

      Meanwhile off topic, the BBC is still in a state of denial about Saville! They have a lot of stages of grief to go through yet.

    94. Bob Mack says:

      @Phil Robertson.

      Since the very beginning ,people in Scotland protested about the Union. So much so there was rioting in major cities,and England garrisoned huge numbers of troops on the border in order to be handy to intervene and quell the protests.

      This was because their sovereignty was removed from them by “noblemen ” who sold their birth right,and created the Union in spite of the will of the people.

      It was not right to begin with,and it is not right now. Scotland is a country with Sovereign rights invested in our population.
      That is what Westminster want to change ,and are discussing now even as I write. Just yesterday a Labour MP rose at PMQ to ask if she could help form a new Act of Union in tandem with the Tories.

      Over my dead body.

    95. heedtracker says:

      Phil Robertson says:
      21 January, 2016 at 2:15 pm
      “YES voters would still be perfectly entitled to campaign for the Scottish nation, to not be run by our neighbours.”

      Absolutely no argument with that.

      So what’s the democratic problem with “areas” of the UK campaign for or against Brexit?

      Keep calling Scotland an “area” of the UK too.

    96. steveasaneilean says:

      “I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the rights of Scotland and the Scots as having primacy over the rights of other nations. To put it simply, it is a branch of political philosophy that can be summed up as ‘we arra peepul, and you urny’.”

      Sadly Kenny has missed the point completely here. Most Yes people I knew, myself included, felt that Scotland was, in many respects, not as good as it could and should be and not as good as other small independent nations (and the stats back that up whether it’s Norway or Denmark or Sweden or Finland or Holland or Switzerland or Luxembourg).

      This, we believe, is down to being part of a union which treats us as little more that bit part players – an oft forgotten back water.

      We felt that by becoming an independent nation we had the best chance of improving ourselves. We were filled with optimism and enthusiasm and striving to be better. Not better than everyone else – just better than our current selves.

    97. Muscleguy says:

      @joemcg

      Inevitable huh? Tell that to the Kurds, the best they have achieved after hundreds of years of trying is a semi-statelet in part, only part of the territory occupied by Kurds. Is Quebec Independent yet? How about Flanders and Wallonia? The Basques? like the Kurds they have people in both Spain and France and have a semi-statelet just in Spain, after physically fighting for it.

      I grew up in New Zealand, in the ’70s and even into the ’80s bumper stickers could be seen in the South Island saying ‘Cut The Cable’. The length of metal in question is the Inter-Island Connector through which power flows from the big hydro schemes in the South Island to consumers in the more prosperous North. NZ has a SE style situation around Auckland with 1/3 of the population within 3 hrs drive or living there. Fortunately the capital is elsewhere, in Wellington.

      It was a beef about exploitation without recompense, the govt takes and does not give back. A bit like the moans from Northern England (quite legitimately). A half hearted South Island Independence movement even fluttered briefly into existence. There is no sign of that now, the stickers have faded or the cars bearing them gone to the wreckers and not been replaced.

      These days the fact that little power goes north any more so greedy for power has society become would forestall such a program. And government has got more responsive over time.

      So no, the yen for independence does not always burn to fruition.

    98. Free Scotland says:

      What really frustrates the unionists now is that they know they have not even one half-convincing argument left. For example, if we were in the thick of a 2nd independence referendum right now, what would their arguments be? Pointless trying to scare us with pension stories, or telling us the broad shoulders of the UK will look after our oil industry, or telling us HMRC jobs will go south if we vote yes, or telling us B&Q branches will shut down. They’ve had umpteen opportunities to justify their “better together” slogan, and they’ve blown it every time.

      The unionist goose is well and truly cooked.

    99. Andrew McLean says:

      Bob 2:40

      This new act of union could be the best thing ever.

      In that it could be the very act that leads to the breakup. One party rewriting the marriage vow on the steps of the divorce court is a fantastic idea! If your intention is divorce!

    100. HandandShrimp says:

      “I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong’, with a world view that sees the rights of Scotland and the Scots as having primacy over the rights of other nations. To put it simply, it is a branch of political philosophy that can be summed up as ‘we arra peepul, and you urny’.”

      In all my time spent with Yes supporters I never heard such sentiments expressed. Our local group had English, South African, Irish and African members. In fact I heard an English couple on our street stall abused by an enraged Unionist and told to go back from where they came from. I asked if they were OK and one of them laughed and said “Fine, but that certainly messed with my mind”.

      Farquharson is just pulling the blood and soil smear that is the last resort of a Unionist that has nothing left in the locker.

    101. Bob Mack says:

      @muscleguy,

      I spent some time in New Zealand, around the time you mention. What you forget to mention however is that the Separitist movement in S Island only ever received 0.14% of the vote in elections.
      I think the situation is different here.

    102. dakk says:

      Kenny Farquerson definitely knows about nationalism alright.

      That’s because he is certainly a hardcore British nationalist,be it ethnic or civic,evidenced by his denial of the democratic motivation of the SNP/Yes movement.

      Same with Phil Robertson.

      If Robertson also thinks England is not a country, then he is a true hardcore British nationalist.

      If he thinks England is a country, and Scotland not,then his self loathing must be intolerable.

    103. Phil Robertson says:

      Mr Peffers
      ““The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.


      There is no such thing as a Unified Britain far less a Federal Britain. As no such political entity exists as, “Britain”. The term is defined as a geographic group of islands.”

      Get down from your high horse and look up synecdoche.

    104. Effijy says:

      With regards to Farquarson, I would have expected life forms on the newly discovered planet to have a better understanding of the facts surrounding Scottish Politics today.

      His writing has just tried to put out the fire with gasoline.

      How wonderful if Scotland became the 61st English Colony to leave our plundering masters since America got the ball rolling in 1776

      Is there a chance that the British Unionist Media, BUM, still write articled to these former colonies demeaning them and questioning why they don’t want a corrupt incompetent Westminster
      taking charge of their resources and their constitution?

      http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/all-the-countries-that-have-gained-independence-from-the-uk–eJavy6zn4x

      At one point, the British Empire was the largest in the world. The United States was the first former colony to go in 1776 and has been followed by a further 59 territories that have become independent states.

      Note this comparison is slightly imperfect as Scotland is part of the UK rather than a former colony.

    105. Bob Mack says:

      @Phil Robertson,

      The term could apply to humans as well,but I have learned that although something is similar in nature there are inestimable differences.

      Mr Peffers is safe enough on his “high horse”.
      What is more,he is right, whilst you, are sadly wrong.

    106. Saor Alba says:

      I posted a very complimentary comment about your article exactly 2 minutes ago, but it was blocked as spam. This was because I did not see the current year box at the bottom. I have commented regularly for a couple of years now, but cannot see me coming back.

      I don’t like being considered as spam.

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @Peter McCulloch says: 21 January, 2016 at 12:30 pm:

      “I do worry about the complacency of some of those in the independence movement who believe the inevitability of independence.”

      I believe you have the wrong idea of what people mean by, “The inevitability of independence”, Peter. They do not mean we should sit back and it will happen all by itself.

      They mean that the old saying, (usually mis-quoted), that, “Nothing succeeds like an idea whose time has come”, is true and the time has indeed come for Scottish independence.

      Their belief is born out by the fact that the percentage of the people of Scotland who are coming to believe Scottish Independence is inevitable is now held by many more people than support either the SNP or independence.

      The original quotation was, “One resists the invasion of armies; one does not resist the invasion of ideas”.
      (Victor Hugo).

      Alternative translations are :-

      “One cannot resist an idea whose time has come”.
      “No one can resist an idea whose time has come”.
      “Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come”.
      “Armies cannot stop an idea whose time has come”.
      “No army can stop an idea whose time has come”.
      “Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come”.
      “There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come”.

    108. Jim McElhill says:

      Great article Stu.
      Loved the Rudyard Kipling.
      Nothing is immediately certain but independence is inevitable.

      When I joined the SNP we got 11.8% of the vote. I cried myself to sleep. I couldn’t believe we could all work so hard and get such a lowly vote nationally.

      Next time, we got 14% nationally which was saddening but an improvement.

      Next time we got 21% which was not bad.

      Then we got 22% which was quite deflating.

      Now we have a Scottish parliament and a majority of Scotland’s MP’s at Westminster (I was thrown out of the place with a few others protesting Scots many years ago)

      Now Westminster has backtracked on defence expenditure on the Clyde etc.

      Labour are struggling.

      Of course people need to continue to work hard. Sickenly hard.

      But everyone should get involved.

    109. Chic McGregor says:

      We have to remember that those who go through the public school/Oxbridge system and come out with a sense of deserved privilege and absolute entitlement to rule are also victims. They have an impaired sense of empathy and compassion sometimes to the extent of ending up emotional and moral husks.

      Being emotionally and morally handicapped by that system they can never attain their true potential as human beings.

      That is why, in the end they grow angry, bitter, unhappy and unfulfilled – and worse, often without even understanding why? because they have everything don’t they?

      There are other routes to a similar deluded state of superiority but ending the above system would be a win-win scenario rather than a win-lose one and would be a great start.

    110. heedtracker says:

      So no, the yen for independence does not always burn to fruition.

      Depends on how you define fruition. NZ is not the UK.

      One big driver for an independent Scotland and SNP voting, is a lot of voters realise that being run by another country has not exactly been a success for them. So lets progress towards Scottish devo, by voting SNP, slowly but surely take back control of our country because things could actually be better for us, doing just that.

      Its why press reprobates in London pretend their Scotland region no longer exists, why the BBC in Scotland and all the rest, cant yet seem to be able to make us vote SLabour and why they keep ragin at Scots that cant run anything, not even a bridge, silly sweaties, leave it to your best friends in the south.

      Vote SLab? They’re not just devastatingly shite at government, they’re absolutely determined to keep Scotland under UKOK rein, all for Crash Gordon’s pulling and sharing of resources and maybe, London is so rich now it probably makes no odds, but it could.

      Our old Bettertogther hammer of the Scots John Macternan, popped up briefly on BBC vote UKOK Daily Politics this lunch time and he says Lab lost because unlike the tories, they didn’t advertise on Facebook, Milliband’s stone monument of promises cost 8 grand was value for money because it gave everyone a good laugh and still does.

      I UKOK shit you not.

    111. liz g says:

      Phil Robertson 3.05
      A much forgotten consequence of being on a high horse is getting a good over view.
      So if you don’t mind we like Roberts position exactly where it is.
      So much better than on your knees don’t you think.

    112. Chic McGregor says:

      I was going to quip the cliche of ‘They can’t put the Genie back in the bottle’ then it struck me a better analogy would be putting the Wizard of Oz back behind the curtain because while that can be done but is a pointless exercise once everyone has seen him.

      That is closer to what the poor fools are trying to do.

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      yup the wizard of oz is a far better analogy

      re- the scarecrow

      “Loads of great men in the past, had no brains either scarecrow, but they had something you don’t….a DIPLOMA.”…….tada

    114. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 21 January, 2016 at 12:33 pm:

      ” … They have become emeshed in the British state”

      Ach! Bob Mack, There is no such thing as, “THE”, British State.

      There are eight countries in Britain – Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, The Republic of Ireland, The Bailiwick of Jersey, The Bailiwick of Guernsey, The Isle on Man and England.

      There is now only one Kingdom in Britain but it is a bi-partite Kingdom of a union of The Kingdom of Scotland with the, (three country), Kingdom of England.

      The independent states are, The United Kingdom, (which contains four countries), The Republic of Ireland, The two Channel Island Bailiwicks and the Isle of Man.

      I assume you meant the United Kingdom – that means you are either a UK undercover agent or a victim of the UK Establishment’s brainwashing.

    115. galamcennalath says:

      Effijy says:

      “Note this comparison is slightly imperfect as Scotland is part of the UK rather than a former colony.”

      Not quite. Ireland, after the Acts of Union 1800, became an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

      Therefore it was, like Scotland, part of the U.K.

      I’m always wary of comparisons between Ireland and Scotland. The initial Irish Free State wasn’t the full independent republic many had hoped for and began with a very nasty civil war. Ireland didn’t become a republic, and completely free from the UK, until 1948.

      I wouldn’t want Scotland to follow the same messy path.

    116. liz g says:

      Shrodingers cat @ 3.44
      RE The Wizzard Of Oz…..Funnily enough for Dorothy to get her wish to go home which she always had the power to achieve,
      All she had to do was Wake Up.
      Who knew!!!

    117. Gizmo says:

      K1

      The reason unionists are all of a sudden crazy about devolving power to local councils is simply to weaken the Scottish parliament. They disguise their disgusting intentions with seemingly noble reasoning, these are the people who, remember, very recently boasted about ‘ripping so many powers from Holyrood it would meet once a month above a pub’. They don’t care about devolving power to local people, they care about the union, and now the SNP have taken over at Holyrood they need to dilute its powers so the best way to do that is to devolve to local councils, many still Labour controlled.

      Never trust a word any of these b*stards say.

      For Indyref 2 the rules should be minimum 7 year residency to vote too, and no foreign students studying here, none voting through holiday homes too.

    118. Matt says:

      We on the Yes side in the meantime need to hold our own shape here. There are already splinters over when the second Indyref should be held and the Second Vote issue will further split movement three ways. That’s healthy to a certain extent as it provides alternative to the SNP narrative but the overall shape and alliance needs to hold.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      @bjsalba says: 21 January, 2016 at 12:41 pm:

      “Do they think our heads zip up the back?

      YES!

    120. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Kenny Farquharson

      “Free Duuuuuumb!”

    121. schrodingers cat says:

      re-wizard of oz

      ruth Davidson, I wish I had a heart

      kezia Dugdale, I wish I had the courage

      wullie rennie, I wish I had a brain

      there is another choice, click those tartan baffies and repeat, “there’s no place like an independent Scotland”
      vote SNP

    122. Bob Mack says:

      @Robert Peffers,

      Like 2 million or so others —- a victim.

    123. BigMac says:

      Another good article Wings. Not only do you help us think more clearly about our political situation but you also have many followers / commentators who provide great support and enlightenment.
      Thanks to you all.

    124. galamcennalath says:

      Regarding the type of nationalism pursued in Scotland. It is civil and we just want to be like everyone else! We don’t believe we are better than anyone else or wish to rule over others.

      Really annoying when Unionists try to tarnish the SNP as being fascist or even nazi.

      There’s an acid test which proves the SG, SNP and Yes movement are definitely not in any way fascist – we have women at the very heart of everything. For fascists, a woman’s place is always at home with children. I defy anyone to show me any fascists who weren’t male centric and didn’t think that way.

    125. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      Good article on BBC Scotland site by Douglas Fraser laying out the welcome troubles besetting Johnston Press.

    126. tarisgal says:

      Kenny Farquharson says:
      “Look at this, for a moment, from the point of view of an English person. Scotland cannot be dragged out of the EU against its wishes, but England can be forced to stay in against its wishes?”

      Look at this for a moment. But you are okay that Scotland can be dragged out against its wishes?

      “England cannot thwart the Scottish popular will, but Scotland can thwart the English popular will?”

      But… but… England does that to us ALL THE TIME, ie. Trident, Syrian bombing etc. Why shouldn’t England, just for once, accept the will of Scotland?

      Phil Robertson says:
      “The identifying feature of being a democrat is to recognise that, now and again, you will have to accept things you don’t agree with if those things are the will of the majority.”

      Well actually, no that is NOT ‘an’ identifying feature but only YOUR identifying feature. My identifying feature is that Democracy allows people to fight for the political party of their choice and thus the chosen party’s ideals, for however long it takes to achieve their outcomes. And quite frankly, surprise! That is the way ALL political parties work! No ‘acceptance’ of a majority choice is necessary at all. Hence regular elections. Political parties do not do it and I see no reason why I as a ‘yes’ voter would or should be expected to do that.

      I do have to ask – why do you think it is okay that England, with its own particular English culture affecting its choices, and its largest population, has the final decision in all political decision making processes? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’? I rather regard that as ‘rigging the election’ somewhat, myself…

      And too often I’m reading and hearing unionists wailing, “You lost! Get over it and move on” – from the same people who say “You nats are going to insist on calling referendums until you get what you want”. Huh? Until we ‘get what we want’? I have never heard such a nonsensical statement. If we ‘get what we want’ – and Scotland declares independence, it will be because the MAJORITY of Scotland were convinced it was the right way to go and voted for it. Not because a handful of Scottish national party members decided they were going to declare Scotland independent (I wish it WERE so easy!). Let’s not forget that pertinent fact.

      Just as the ‘no’ people have gotten their way (at present) and we all live with dependency on WM, would the democratic vote for independence on a second Referendum be ‘accepted’, as you, Phil, are advocating? And would those same unionists be content with the same response, ‘You lost! Accept it. Get over it and move on.’?

    127. call me dave says:

      Crowd funding anyone?

      https://archive.is/ralvI

      FMQs

      She’s the one in the pink.

      http://www.scottishparliament.tv/

    128. Gizmo says:

      Phil Robertson

      Yorkshire is not a signatory to the Act of Union. The UK is a unitary state made up of four seperate countries, or three and a territory. Scotland is a country with regions of its own, its entirely deceitful and enormously insulting to continually compare Scotland with a region of England, Scotland, in that context, can only be compared with England, Wales and N Ireland, not regions thereof, no matter their population.

    129. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Rev Stu,

      I found these two impressionists together quite easily:

      http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81HgDFbpiqL._SL1500_.jpg

      Mind you, it’s from the BBC so they’re undoubtedly lying impostors.

    130. Vestas says:

      I wonder if I’m alone in now viewing everything which comes from the MSM in the UK as “more than likely total bollox” regardless of the subject or source?

      The referendum was definitely a wakeup call for me on all sorts of levels but you look at anywhere in the “paid” media and take more than a superficial interest in pretty much any “major” story on any MSM media then you’ll find its crap.

      I live in Leicestershire & the local rag (Leicester Mercury) has been acquired by the group which owns the Mirror from the group that owns the Daily Mail.

      Most people didn’t notice the difference & there’s still people going on about “right-wing” bias as “you’re owned by the Daily Heil”.

      Just wondering…

    131. CameronB Brodie says:

      Deary, deary me. Well I suppose that’s BritNat logic.

      In the past two decades many social scientists have questioned whether there is any difference between patriotism and nationalism. This fascinating debate was spawned by the publication of Michael Billig’s 1995, book, Banal Nationalism. Billig (1995: 6) argues that those in the developed countries commonly understand nationalism as a problem in the developing world, with only intermittent cases in which it rises in the states of the West. He argues that between such intermittent events the “ideological foundations” of the developed countries are maintained by “banal nationalism,” or the nationalism of everyday life. He defines banal nationalism as the (Billig 1995: 6):

      Ideological habits which enable the established nations of the West to be reproduced . . . . these habits are not removed from everyday life . . . . Daily, the nation is indicated, or ‘flagged’, in the lives of its citizenry. Nationalism, far from being an intermittent mood in established nations, is the endemic condition.

      http://cgge.aag.org/NationalIdentity1e/CaseStudy1_Icons%20of%20Identity_Oct10/Identity_Oct10_print.html

    132. Phil Robertson says:

      Tarisgal
      “I do have to ask – why do you think it is okay that England, with its own particular English culture affecting its choices, and its largest population, has the final decision in all political decision making processes? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’? I rather regard that as ‘rigging the election’ somewhat, myself…”

      While you’re pondering that question, here’s another one.
      Why do you think it is okay that Scotland, with its own particular Scottish culture affecting its choices, and its smaller population, has the final decision in this political decision making process? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’?

    133. Graeme Borthwick says:

      You forgot the last verse..

      If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
      Or walk with Kings – nor lose the common touch,
      If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
      If all men count with you, but none too much;
      If you can fill the unforgiving minute
      With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
      Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
      And-which is more- you’ll be a Man, my son!

    134. Christian Schmidt says:

      Very good analysis!

      I would add there is a reason why very few yes-supporters are willing to listen to any negative point made about the SNP by Lab/Lib/Tories and those identified with Unionism – and that’s Project Fear. It is build in to negative campaigns that if they do not work they make the target more determined to work against you.

    135. schrodingers cat says:

      While you’re pondering that question, here’s another one.
      Why do you think it is okay that Scotland, with its own particular Scottish culture affecting its choices, and its smaller population, has the final decision in this political decision making process? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’?

      um, yes, I do, as long as the final decision in this political decision making process is about and effects only Scotland

      hence the desire for independence. I thought that was obvious, I don’t want England to rule over Scotland but neither do I want Scotland to rule over England, or anywhere else for that matter. the emperialist mindset is a characteristic of unionists, not scots nats.

    136. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 21 January, 2016 at 1:04 pm:

      And a cry of PISH! Rang out above the crowd.

      Utter, unadulterated and rancid.

      Like all of your kind, you are totally unable to understand the differences between, state, country, kingdom and bipartite union. Thus it is utterly pointless to even bother to attempt debate with you.

      Your comment contains so many wrong uses of precise terms as to render it sheer gobbledegook.

      Before going any further, the term, “United Kingdom”, is an accurate and precise description of, (Wait for it! Wait for it!) “A KINGDOM”. A kingdom is a Royal Realm.

      It is neither a country nor a state.

    137. Not Convinced says:

      It’s said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. This does seem to fit the unionist side of things quite well IMHO.

      When the SNP got a majority in 2011, and thus made a referendum inevitable, I really think that the unionists believed that a crushing defeat for the SNP was also inevitable. (I found a great article on some Conservative website a while back in the which the author confidently put forth the idea that support for independence might possibly go as high as 28% but it wouldn’t be any higher than that! 😀 ) And off a result like that they could’ve argued, with some merit, that the SNP where thus an irrelevance (with a subtext of “Go home and left the adults run the place from now on”!)

      But just to be sure, they embarked on Project Fear in all it’s many guises … Only it didn’t seem to be working, so they tried it even harder and that didn’t work either, so they really went for it and still support for independence climbed! Alas it only climbed to 45% on the day, but that was sufficiently high that no-one could realistically argue that the SNP should pack up and go home.

      Which meant that independence didn’t go away, like it was “supposed to” and that’s a bit of a problem for the unionists. So what course of action did they decide on? Well let’s continue Project Fear, after all it worked so well last time didn’t it? 😀 And what seems to be the result of Project Fear II? Well it seems to be a continued rise, albeit slow, in the support for independence!

      You’d think someone in the Westminster bubble would’ve noticed by now, and suggested that maybe just maybe love bombing Scotland whilst proposing major constitutional changes might be an idea to try? (I mean changes such as a truly Federal UK (replacing the Lords with something like the Bundesräte of Austria and Germany) and agreeing that major changes like existing the EU would require not just a majority of the population but a majority in at least 3 of the 4 parts of the UK.)

    138. rongorongo says:

      Truth says:
      There is a marked “white flight” from England which I believe is only going to increase. The type of people who are motivated to “white flight” are just the sort of people to vote no.

      I speculate that the opposite effect is even more powerful: the influx of English people who support more competent and progressive government – the kind who said “why can’t I vote for the SNP?” when watching Nicola Sturgeon, last year, are not immune to moving somewhere where they can.

    139. liz g says:

      Phil Roberson @ 4.45
      Think you just made the case for independence there Phil
      Knew you’d come around.

    140. frogesque says:

      @ gus1940 4.21

      But not one BBC word about the Kilted Englishman and its withering contemp for a Scotland free from the vice like grip of Westminster. It’s not just the economic model that’s bust, it’s the editorial direction that has it in the gutter heading for the stank.

    141. Luigi says:

      I’m pleasantly surprised at the number of NO voters that voted SNP at the GE (I have already spoken to quite a few of them). They are still not ready to vote YES, unfortunately, but they certainly don’t share this blinkered love of the union with Mr Farquharson and his BritNat brigade.

    142. Luigi says:

      Chic McGregor says:
      21 January, 2016 at 3:28 pm

      We have to remember that those who go through the public school/Oxbridge system and come out with a sense of deserved privilege and absolute entitlement to rule are also victims. They have an impaired sense of empathy and compassion sometimes to the extent of ending up emotional and moral husks.

      I reckon every single one of them has had their brains buggered out. That would explain a lot, a helluva lot.

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 21 January, 2016 at 1:13 pm:

      ” … Fluffie Mundell COMMANDS respect for coming out”

      Talking about which, “Coming Out”, I could not suppress a smile at what must have been the most strange, “Coming Out”, ever.

      That of Tory MP, (and Tory ex-Minister), Crispin Blunt who outed himself as an inveterate, “Popper”, (user of the, “recreational”, drug Amyl Nitrite).

      If you do not fid it amusing or know the effect of the drug then google, “popper”.

    144. Valerie says:

      Great analytical piece and comment. There has been NO attempt to really understand what took place in Scotland, and how people still feed voraciously on history, and truth.

      Huge swathes of people like me, suddenly trying to remember why we can’t remember any Scottish History, but know a fair amount about ‘baddies’ in other countries! It makes you feel like a right fool, and you set about catching up. (Thanks also to Mr Peffers).

      As a new member of SNP, I’ll hazard a guess, that most branches are like mine, hard working, raising money via raffles etc., and pounding the streets, in a head down, good humoured way. We are constantly told – nothing for granted, so we have to work for it. We are updated from WM and Holyrood views. We sometimes disagree, but it’s mature.

      I always find it just stupid to call us robotic, but even that covers a small number of people, because clearly, many more support the Scottish gov’t.

      It feels slow sometimes, but I do think things are changing.

      I seriously find it very difficult to believe anyone can want to be ruled by the Tories, and their inhumane and incompetent management. I read horror stories daily, and can perhaps believe the Lib Dems put a bit of a brake on them. We can see the Tories in all their horrible glory now.

    145. Dr Jim says:

      STV going after the FM tonight

    146. Phil Robertson says:

      Robert Peffers says:

      “Like all of your kind,” and what exactly does “your kind” mean?

      “United Kingdom” … It is neither a country nor a state.

      But, more relevantly, it is the member of the European Union in which we live and the referendum is about membership of the afore mentioned Union. Join us in the twenty-first century.

    147. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Just because it’s time for a wee reminder:

      The B4FTAs (Before & Aftas):
      http://tinyurl.com/o6rrhh3

    148. Robert Peffers says:

      @Janet says: 21 January, 2016 at 1:24 pm:

      “Interesting to note that the doom and gloom Forth Road Bridge stories turn out to be mince. Failure of a component not failure by government to spend”.

      Very well put, Janet. In fact it was the excellent quality of steel used for the component, after it seized, which kept the member from failing much, much sooner.

      The Yoons are always too ready to jump before checking the facts. As my old Granny would say about such premature actions, “Dinna check the depth o the burn wi baith feet”, but they always do.

    149. Effijy says:

      Phil Robertson says:
      21 January, 2016 at 4:45 pm
      Tarisgal
      “I do have to ask – why do you think it is okay that England, with its own particular English culture affecting its choices, and its largest population, has the final decision in all political decision making processes? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’? I rather regard that as ‘rigging the election’ somewhat, myself…”

      While you’re pondering that question, here’s another one.
      Why do you think it is okay that Scotland, with its own particular Scottish culture affecting its choices, and its smaller population, has the final decision in this political decision making process? Can that truly be considered ‘democracy’?

      Phil, Can I ask you how you and the English Nation would react if the majority of EU Countries all voted in Communist governments
      and dogmatically insisted that all member states adopted a
      new extreme left wing constitution?

      I’m hearing something along the lines of ” We don’t care about them being the larger majority and we are a Nation who did vote for these changes and who will not be bullied or abused.
      We will not accept them?

      Why that sounds familiar to me.

    150. dakk says:

      “Like all of your kind,” and what exactly does “your kind” mean?

      An English nationalist obviously.

    151. Martin says:

      How long until the mad elements of yoonies turn on Massie for being off message? Massie, like everyone, is entitled to his own preference re Indy…but it seems he’s the only voice in the media that has any insight at all. And if there’s one thing yoons hate….

      Hopefully if anything does go down it’s simple point-counterpoint rebuffals by colleagues. As much as MSM annoy me, the blinkered yoons are just preserving what they believe. No need to have dickery

    152. Rev.Stu – one of your best, and as so many commentators have said:”Brilliant”!

      Anent’ the reasoned ‘disscussionss’ you might present to entrenched Unionists, is the simple fact that; we as a sovereign country, we have – and need, the right, to make and take all decisions, be they right or wrong – for Scotland.
      All arguments devolve (oh what a familiar word that is!) and follow on from that fact!

      It is our country, and we will, for better or worse, take responsibility for it.

    153. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell says: 21 January, 2016 at 1:40 pm:

      “The UK is, allegedly, not a country either, but a union of countries.”

      Sorry to have to contradict you, Rev Stu, but The United Kingdom is exactly that, a Kingdom.

      It is a bi-partite kingdom composed of two equally sovereign Kingdoms as defined in the Treaty of Union of 1706/7. It does, however, contain four countries but three of them composed the Kingdom of England at the signing of the treaty.

      The partition of Ireland only affects the title because both Wales and all Ireland were annexed by the English monarch before 1706/7, and there was no Kingdom of Northern Ireland.

      A complication is that the actual United realm, (Kingdom), also contains three, non-UK government crown protectorates. These are parts of the kingdom but not part of the administration of the Westminster Government.

      The Status Quo Ante of the Scottish and English governments returning to being independent kingdoms will not end the actual United Kingdom – only the Westminster Parliament of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

      It will then remain for the sovereign people of Scotland to decide if they wish to retain Elizabeth Regina as their non-sovereign monarch.

    154. Tackety Beets says:

      I was born in 1956, and by the age of 10 (1966) I was already feeling the need for iScotland .

      I’ll soon be 60 and in those years WM has done bugger all to “dachle” my view.

      The Yoons pedal their crap , but nothing can change the 50 years I have experienced already under their beloved WM.

      Faqhaurson is a “FUD” > F@@@ ing Unionist Dohball!

    155. Clapper57 says:

      Kenny F Hack The Hacker of Hackistan says :

      “Look at this, for a moment, from the point of view of an English person. Scotland cannot be dragged out of the EU against its wishes, but England can be forced to stay in against its wishes? England cannot thwart the Scottish popular will, but Scotland can thwart the English popular will?

      How is that right? How does that make any sense? It only makes sense if you see an English vote as having less legitimacy than a Scottish vote. That’s nationalism for you.”

      Yes Mr Kenny F Hack, and there’s the rub, hit the bleedin nail on the proverbial head as to why the union does not work. Scotland has evolved, as well you know , and many Scots are no longer willing to be overruled by Big Smother. So we have an eternal catch 22 within this dysfunctional union which has never ever been fit for purpose.

      For years the Scottish vote has had less legitimacy in GE’s than the English vote. So what is your point other than highlighting the bleedin obvious , though I see you err in favour of the English perspective.

      Mr Kenny F Hack , your argument displays, what is now , the eternal quandary within this union and if anything your comments are confirming the logic of Scottish independence. Whichever way either nation votes in this EU referendum I can assure it will be England once again who will have the deciding vote whether we stay or go, by sheer majority, NOT Scotland.

      And let’s not forget the rise of English nationalism, EVEL, the Labour English MP Toby ( need a ) P P proposed new English national anthem, devolved powers to English regions to appease the real voters in this union . And of course the British nationalism that has been thrust down our Scottish throats to try to avert the hoots mon threat of Scottish nationalism.

      However on the plus side your piece does inspire and reinforce why I want Scotland to be independent and why I will continue to vote SNP and will forever be proud of my nationalism as is my right as a Scot . Thank you for explaining why UK..is..not..OK and is past it’s sell by date, and I feel , in my not so humble Scottish opinion, this is also true from the English perspective….yea get me !

    156. Phil Robertson says:

      Effijy

      “Can I ask you how you and the English Nation would react if the majority of EU Countries all voted in Communist governments and dogmatically insisted that all member states adopted a new extreme left wing constitution?”

      With disbelief although I can’t speak for the “English Nation” whatever that is.

      “I’m hearing something along the lines of ” We don’t care about them being the larger majority and we are a Nation who did vote for these changes and who will not be bullied or abused.
      We will not accept them?”

      Sorry, I don’t understand this. Who are “we” and “them”?

    157. One_Scot says:

      Massie may well now and again write one piece where you go, ‘oh, hmmm’, but then he’ll kick you square hard in the nuts for the next ninety nine.

    158. Thepnr says:

      Phil Robertson appears to have had a UKOK Mk-IV brain implant resulting in a personality change.

    159. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 21 January, 2016 at 5:40 pm:

      ” … “Like all of your kind,” and what exactly does “your kind” mean?”

      Whatever you want it to mean, Phil.

      What I mean is, “Anti-Scottish Independence supporter”.

      “United Kingdom” … It is neither a country nor a state.

      “But, more relevantly, it is the member of the European Union in which we live and the referendum is about membership of the afore mentioned Union.”

      Indeed it is about the membership of the EU, Phil, whatever made you imagine I though otherwise?

      The point is that as the, “United Kingdom”, is now, and always has been, a bi-partite union of only the two equally sovereign kingdoms of Scotland and England, (and there is not, in the entire treaty document, a single mention of countries), then your references are rather strange.

      Either the United Kingdom is now a single unitary Kingdom or it is not. However, like all bi-partite unions, either partner inn such a union can withdraw from the union and both equal partners return to the Status Quo Ante.

      If it a unitary kingdom then what are your references to countries all about? If it isn’t a unitary Kingdom composed of two equal kingdoms then perhaps you can indicate when this legally came about?

      “Join us in the twenty-first century”

      I am in the 21st century, Phil, but it seems you are not in a same 21st century or on the same Planet Earth as the rest of us.

      Here’s a straight question for you.

      Is the, “United Kingdom”, on your planet legally a kingdom, a state or a country and on what legal documented evidence do your base your answer?

    160. Dan Huil says:

      Cameron back-peddling on an EU referendum this year? Whit’s he fear’t o’?

    161. AFewHomeTruths says:

      Thought the stages of grieving analysis was excellent.

      I think two of the underestimated bits of unionist strategy were the vote No if you are undecided and make sure it is decisive appeals. Both sought to harvest bonus non no votes. This tied in with the constant alleged new polls saying no just ahead. Those may have made the difference. Remember to use the make it decisive angle next time if we are ahead.

      I think the ‘once in a generation’ comment was simply to try to maximise Yes as Westminster wouldn’t endorse another and a win in a recognised vote was stronger. It also appealed to those who want Independence but for whom timing was wrong as they had just started a family, lost a job, bought a house or something else that made them feel temporarily more vulnerable. We know many no voters were reluctant. I see it as something that had to be said by a leading figure, though it could have been someone else and perhaps phrased differently.

      The 70s are a long time ago now but I don’t remember it as single issue, though then as now I was content that the Scotland we made would have been one I could live with.

      Finally I see Margo’s man is on BBC saying he will be voting to leave and complaining about SNP support for the policy he won backing for. It’s a funny old world…

    162. Clootie says:

      …and then we win.

      The Unionists are deflated and defeated because their biased media no longer manipulates the Scots.
      Scotland, as stated many many times does not argue on the basis of being better than any other nation…but simply of being a nation to determine its own future. A nation which I hope takes a very different path in looking after it’s citizens than the example set by the supporters of the “Empire” and the elite minority.

      I just hope Independence is achieved in my lifetime – not for my sake but for the generations to come before further damage is inflicted by Westminster.

      We all need to continue the simple task of convincing one person of the benefits of Independence.

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 21 January, 2016 at 3:47 pm:

      … “Not quite. Ireland, after the Acts of Union 1800, became an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”

      Err! Nope!

      All Ireland became an integral part of the Kingdom of England in 1542 with the signing, by the parliament of Ireland of, “The Crown of Ireland Act”.

      Now 1542 was before the Parliament of England’s, “Glorious Revolution”, of 1688 and thus the law of England was still, “The Divine right of Kings”. By which any monarch who defeated another simply tagged the other kingdom onto their existing realm. Likewise if they married into another realm or inherited it.

      So the Kingdom of England of 1706/7 was composed of England, Wales, (Statute of Rhuddlan, 1284), and Ireland, (Crown of Ireland Act, 1542).

      Thus both Wales & Ireland came to the Union on England’s coattails. The 1800/1 Treaties did no more than rename, “The United Kingdom of Great Britain”, as the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland to indicate that the former Kingdom of Ireland had partitioned. You cannot join an existing part of the Kingdom of England to the United Kingdom when it is already part of the United Kingdom and not even a kingdom in its own right.

      In the first place Northern Ireland was not a existing kingdom and in the second place it was already part of the
      Kingdom of England from 1542. When did it legally become a new kingdom with a government to sign the treaties of 1800/1. In point of fact all Ireland is still a country but its governance is partitioned.

    164. Fairliered says:

      Kenny Farquharson stated “I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong”. To me, that makes him a British Nationalist. Perhaps we should start referring to unionists as British Nationalists.

      Kenny F’s favoured party could rename themselves the British National Socialist Party – if they were still socialists!

    165. Chic McGregor says:

      The population size of the country you are born in is an arbitrarily random number due only to the geographical quirks that define that country’s size and population density.

      However, each country will almost certainly have its own unique cultural perspective born of many years of development and enshrined in its institutions and organisations. Like its legislature, its judiciary, its literary society, its political positions, its ethical and moral benchmarks etc.

      As long as the population size is large enough to adequately maintain and develop these systems, then any such country will possess a national/cultural perspective which has the same validity as that of any other.

      And it is on that basis that inter-national relations are generally carried out i.e. most multi-national organisations allow each member nation to participate and contribute to any relative debates and decision-making they may have.

      Of course, when imperialistic insanity takes hold, then might can become right and the more militarily powerful nations, which are usually towards the higher population end can ride roughshod over smaller nations.

      But that is surely not right and in general does not happen.

      If it were to work on a population size basis then at the height of the British Empire the imperial capital and government would have been in India. That obviously did not happen.
      Another example would be the EU where its chief organisations are not located in Germany (except the ECB) but in Belgium and other smaller countries.

      So the population size argument is just plain wrong on every level for inter-country co-operations and organisations.

      And for those imperialistic EngNats only seems appropriate to the the UK countries since they certainly did not apply that principal when India was in the Empire.

      In other words EngNats consider the UK to be more like an ongoing mini-Empire where might is right can be pursued with relative impugnity rather than any kind of recognisable modern inter-national organisation.

    166. marga says:

      OT, sorry, but to remind people that today the EU signed its Stabilisation and Association Agreement with Kosovo, signalling its gradual incorporation into Europe, with 468 votes in favour, 102 against and 81 abstentions. i.e. Does not require retification by all member states.

      As you may know, noises from both Holland and Belgium are that for example Catalonia would not require even such ratification. Indeed, the Flemish seem set to use the Catalan model to justify automatic EU acceptance of seceding regions of member states, including their own.

      Oh and Nicola’s smart response to Suitegate has attracted not a few comments over here. They like her style!

    167. Effijy says:

      Phil Robertson says:
      21 January, 2016 at 6:44 pm
      Effijy

      “Can I ask you how you and the English Nation would react if the majority of EU Countries all voted in Communist governments and dogmatically insisted that all member states adopted a new extreme left wing constitution?”

      With disbelief although I can’t speak for the “English Nation” whatever that is.

      “I’m hearing something along the lines of ” We don’t care about them being the larger majority and we are a Nation who didn’t vote for these changes and who will not be bullied or abused.
      We will not accept them?”

      Sorry, I don’t understand this. Who are “we” and “them”?

      “You and the Bully Boy Unionists are all of the above”!

      You seem happy that that majority always wins, just as Long as England/Unionist have the majority.

      Like 60 English Colonies before us, Scotland has had enough of being ripped off and abused by Westminster Governments that we didn’t vote for.

    168. Tam Jardine says:

      George Eaton sites the ‘spirit of cooperation’ as being missing from the SNP approach and takes offence at our position. It seems more straightforward to me.

      If you are sharing a house with 3 other people and one of them or more decide they want to up sticks and move, let’s say to a neighbourhood you don’t want to move to it seems that you have a decision to make whether to go with them or not.

      Maybe you like it just where you are, or maybe you want to strike out alone, or maybe you just resent being told to abide by the majority decision, or rather the decision of one housemate who happens to me all the decisions all the time.

      The veto is bollocks- No-one seriously believes that if Scotland somehow got the casting vote and kept England in Europe that would be the end of the matter. The options are: all in, all out or Scottish Independence

    169. carjamtic says:

      Excellent Rev.

      AAAAA+++++ :-))

      ‘Trust doesn’t come with a refill,once it’s gone, you probably won’t get it back and if you do,it will never be the same’.

      UKOK : Just Accept it…..it,s over now,you are finito in Scotland,no more now than a political skelf.

      Caa tee i door on yer wye oot ! Thank ye !

    170. ian says:

      What farquarson and his ilk fail to understand is that there is a clear difference between English nationalism and Scottish nationalism.We dont covet other countrys resources or seek to influence by arms other countrys politics we just want our “wee bit hill and glen”.

    171. jdman says:

      o/t
      Memo to Aldi’s

      Aldi’s advert in support of British athletes in and of itself is a laudable thing, but Aldi’s hard earned (and growing) Scottish customer base is not to be taken lightly, as a customer I have no desire to see ANY flags, Union or otherwise while I’m shopping, while I personally have no real concern about Aldi’s corporate sponsorship, it would be wise to take note of the sensibilities of a SUBSTANTIAL (50%) proportion of the Scottish market who do not take kindly to having Union flags shoved in their face, while on the other hand tend not to care deeply about a companies allegiances as long as they keep it to themselves!

      yours in anticipation of the removal of THAT ADVERT
      John King

    172. Marian says:

      With the price of oil per barrel at a new low, and the unionists and their media lackeys claiming that Scotland’s oil is now worthless, the time is right for the Scottish Government to SNP to call Westminster’s bluff by offering to take Scotland’s oil and gas reserves off Westminster’s hands.

    173. yesindyref2 says:

      Two things I’d say here. First is that if you find a “journalist” or columnist whose views you find extreme to say the least, look through their lineage and you’re likely to find they started life or worked at some time, in the Scotsman – known for decades as an English, nay, London, newspaper in Scotland.

      Second is about the IPPR. It’s left-wing based but not transparently Labour as far as I can see, I think it should be encouraged, especially as there is now since August 2015, an IPPR Scotland in Edinburgh. By “encouraged” I don’t mean blind acceptance, criticism at times is OK 🙂

    174. Cherry says:

      What John King said!

      I cannot abide that flag….it has so much blood dripping from its threads.

      Will keep avoiding said stores until it is removed…rant over.

    175. Balaaargh says:

      “The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.”

      It hasn’t worked for a long time. It will never reform. It failed a very long time ago.

    176. Fred says:

      Comparing one of the oldest nations in Europe (Scotland) with New Zealand, a still wet behind the ears former colony, are ludicrous!

    177. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      O/T

      Did anybody see the naked attempt to smear Nicola by association in the evening STV news coverage of some filthy flats in the Govanhill area of Glasgow. They used some coverage of last week as part of it which was filmed by some community group in an ambush of the First Minister so this must have been passed to STV by some enemies.

      I have given up on watching BBC Scottish News. I very shortly will be doing the same with STV.

      My wife’s reaction was fairly straightforward. “What’s that got to do with Nicola? The dirty *******s should clean up the mess they make themselves. We would never be allowed let our closes or back courts get like that.” (She was brought up in Govan)

      Complaints to STV should be made to 0141 300 3000

    178. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Peter McCulloch at 12.30

      But it is already dead. The media has propped the body up in a chair and tries to deceive us with it.

    179. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 21 January, 2016 at 2:06 pm:

      “So that still doesn’t address the point of why voters in Scotland have a veto that the same number of voters in Yorkshire don’t have. Maybe they’re not part of the peepul”

      Aye! Phil and maybe you are not so much of an idiot as your comments indicate you are.

      Only an idiot, or a deliberate troll, could post such utter pish as you do. Anyone with just a couple of brain cells, enough for synapse, knows that the United Kingdom is exactly what it describes itself as. That is A KINGDOM.

      It is not a country, it is not even simply a kingdom but it is a united kingdom. Furthermore it is a bi-partite united kingdom with two equally sovereign partners.

      At best it may be classed as a political state It certainly is not a country. It is legally a bi-partite union that actually contains four long established countries. Scotland is among Europe’s oldest established and recognised countries.

      As such it takes a real idiot to imagine the UK as a country and an even bigger idiot to think of it as Britain, or even Great Britain – the former is a geographic term and includes more than the UK – the latter is simply the biggest, or greater, island in Britain and contains only three of the four UK countries.

      So just what is your problem in mentally considering the United kingdom for what it legally is? Ergo a legally bi-partite union of equally sovereign kingdoms? Rather like a marriage in the eyes of the law. Two equal partners and to bring in Yorkshire as if it were a country or even a kingdom is a feat worthy of a total numptie.

      That’s the two alternatives, Phil, either you are inherently thick or no more than a, (probably paid for), unionist troll?

    180. Kirsty says:

      I think the people who’re mentioning other independence movements are overlooking the real difference in Scotland’s case which is that we have a far, far longer history as an independent country than we do as a being part of the UK. I think that, along with the Treaty of Union as well as our separate legal, education, etc. systems makes the current situation re the UK very different.

      I also can’t quite understand the argument that Scotland shouldn’t be able to make a difference to England because that would be undemocratic but if the situations are reversed then it becomes perfectly democratic. What? How is that even a thing that a reasonably intelligent person could think?

    181. Fred says:

      You have to hand it to the British state when it comes to hypocrisy, the furore over the unfortunate death of one Russian spy for MI6, while Britain is colluding in mass-murder in the Yemen, is breathtaking. He was viewed in his native land as a ("Tractor" - Ed), just as Burgess, Philby & MacLean were here and if they had unfortunately drank the wrang tea there would have been widespread rejoicing.

      The Russians learned the game well, it was a British agent who finished off Rasputin.

    182. Fred says:

      A ("Tractor" - Ed) no a tractor! 🙂

    183. Petra says:

      It seems that they’re all struggling to figure out why we wouldn’t go back into the box after we ‘lost’ and don’t like it one bit because they’re losing control in general … and specifically …. over us.

      They don’t seem to understand that we’re not one bit happy with the way the country is being run by the Tories and Labour before them. We’re not happy about …… being controlled by political parties that we don’t vote for, being lied to constantly for ONE McCrone, being ruled by the ermine clad unelected, the rich – poor divide, being robbed blind, having Nuclear weapons on our doorstep, paedophile whitewash / s, being dragged into illegal wars, war criminals making millions, the Chilcott Report dragging on, bombing innocent civilians and continual botch-ups and cover-ups, to name but a few.

      We want a Government of our own choosing. A Government that puts the Scots first. A Government that we can hold to account where we can demand honesty and transparency. A Government that is there to serve the people and not conversely to serve themselves. That’s what it’s all about … no more and no less. Nothing sinister about it at all.

      And I think that the following statement is quite telling “The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.”

      It comes across to me that there’s been a little ‘slip up’ here. Why would ‘Britain’ fail if we were to ‘break up’ …. they got rid of the subsidy junkies? Maybe it’s beginning to dawn on them that rUK … mostly old Engerland … would fail if we were to detach ourselves from them …. and make a success of it.

      The blunt truth is that more and more people are realising that ‘Britain’ isn’t working and hasn’t ‘worked’ for quite some time.

    184. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bob Mack says: 21 January, 2016 at 4:09 pm:

      “Like 2 million or so others —- a victim.”

      Och! No! There are a great many more than 2 million victims, Bob.

      Not only do well established Scottish Independence supporters innocently make the errors put out by the establishment propaganda for at least 2016 years but these errors are much more rife in the other UK and British countries.

      Furthermore, if you travel the World you will find many out there who will refer to the entire British islands as, “England”.

    185. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fred says: 21 January, 2016 at 9:08 pm:

      “A (“Tractor” – Ed) no a tractor”

      More like a de-tractor, perhaps?

    186. Iain More says:

      @Phil Robertson

      If UKOK worked then the SNP in all likelihood wouldn’t exist. It certainly wouldn’t be taking 56 of 59 seats at a UKOK Election and it wouldn’t have won a majority of seats at the Holyrood Election of 2011 – Doh!

    187. andy smith says:

      Tackety beets @6:20,
      Snap on everything, ’56 must’ve been a vintage year!;-)

    188. Onwards says:

      Joemcg says:
      21 January, 2016 at 2:03 pm
      “Thought for the day: Scotland=Yorkshire. Not to the 45% now 50% it doesn’t.”

      Unionists do see Scotland and Yorkshire as having the same status within the UK . Effectively they may be right. Enough Scots chose to abdicate the responsibility of governing ourselves as a nation, instead choosing to delegate that to our neighbours.

      However the big difference is that Scotland is a historical nation, where the people are sovereign, and we have the OPTION to upgrade ourselves to a full nation state at any time.
      We would get international recognition as a new country.
      Practically, Yorkshire really doesn’t have that option, even if enough residents wanted to.

      So the question remains, Should Scotland do it?
      Not enough were convinced in 2014, but it is still an open question, and we may eventually get there one step at a time.

      Ultimately, nation states have many advantages over regions – so it could make sense purely on a practical basis, without even considering identity or patriotism.

    189. Chic McGregor says:

      @jdman
      As a, now, regular Aldi shopper, I noted the recent homage paid to Hogmanay in Scotland, with stores festooned with signs to that effect.

      I also note their growing support of local Scottish produce in terms of percentage produce on sale.

      And in the past I have pointed out that they consider Scotland a different entity from England in that, for instance, they allow the use of credit cards for payment in Scotland but not in England (that may no longer apply since I have not checked recently but was true a couple of years ago when I did).

      My main gripe with Aldi and Lidl is, while their prices are low compared to British supermarkets, they are still significantly more than in their German stores. But I guess it would be unreasonable to expect a retailer not to take what they can easily get and the real question should be addressed to the Brit supermarkets as to why they are so much more?

      The answer to that lies in the fact the UK (as a whole – not Scotland) has a huge groceries trade deficit and that therefore it is a seller’s market.

    190. Kirsty says:

      Petra,

      Exactly. I always love reading your comments. You always manage to say what I think but just in a much more intelligent, coherent way! 🙂

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fairliered says: 21 January, 2016 at 7:46 pm:

      “Kenny Farquharson stated “I usually define nationalism as ‘my country right or wrong”. To me, that makes him a British Nationalist. Perhaps we should start referring to unionists as British Nationalists.”

      Sigh! sorry to keep harping on, Fairliered, but there is no such nation as Britain. Britain contains eight countries or states. Only four of them are part of the United Kingdom. The Republic of Ireland obviously cannot be part of a Kingdom while the two Channel Island Bailiwicks and Isle of Man are Crown Protectorates but independent of the United Kingdom Government.

      Which clearly defines the actual United Kingdom as the Royal Realm and thus makes it clear that Westminster is NOT, per se, “The United Kingdom”, for that only designates the Royal Realm. Westminster is Her Majesty’s Government of HER United Kingdom and that is only what was formed in 1706/7, (minus the republic).

      That means the United Kingdom is the bi-partite union of only the three country Kingdom of England and the single country Kingdom of Scotland as they were on 1 May 1707 but minus the Republic pf Ireland.

      They can argue till they are blue in the face, with a white diagonal cross on it, but there is no way they can get away from the legal fact that the Treaty of Union is an agreement between two equally sovereign KINGDOMS and that splitting it up along the lines of the four UK countries signed the UK’s death Warrant.

    192. Ken500 says:

      Yorkshire does not have a Barnett Formula settlement where it’s resources are taken illegally. Scotland has been secretly and illegally lied to for years. Thatcher and the McCrone Report. It will be ironic Scotland denied Home Rule, keeps the rest of the UK in the EU. All promises on FFA/ Home Rule for Scotland have been broken by Westminster.

    193. skozra says:

      ^Well said Petra, above.

    194. James Barr Gardner says:

      Cameron wants to hold his European Referendum near the end of 2017, fanbloodytastic! Vote to stay in.

      We have Scottish Parliament Elections on Thursday 5th of May 2016. Let’s get that vote in! Vote SNP X 2! Vote for Scottish Independence.

      Then We have the Scottish Local Government Elections on Thursday 4th of May 2017! Vote SNP! Vote for Scottish Independence.

      In 2018 time to raise The Appin Banner!

    195. neil bruce says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 8.53

      Yes I saw that too, and my reaction was exactly the same as you and your Wife.

      That disgusting attempt to smear the First Minister confirmed my cancellation of the propaganda tax/licence at the end of this month.

      I thought that STV were better than the ebc, I was wrong.

      On the plus side, if the establishment are going after the First Minister they are running out of targets and they are desperate.

    196. Gary45% says:

      Just a wee add-on to Petra@9.30.
      It would be interesting to see the change in attitude in England if the nuclear weapons were going to be stored down there.
      I think this question should be put to the English.
      I know the decision has already been made in renewing Trident, (the Tories can spin it all they want, we know it will be renewed), but giving them the question would be quite interesting to see their reaction.

    197. Robert Peffers says:

      @marga says: 21 January, 2016 at 8:05 pm:

      “Oh and Nicola’s smart response to Suitegate has attracted not a few comments over here. They like her style!”

      Aye! Marga, We do not call Nicola a, “Nippy Sweetie”, for nothing. The lady is very, very, quick witted and anyone attempting to take a rise out of her does so at their own risk. BTW: It is being dubbed as, “Jacketgate”, in the UK media.

    198. Kevin meina says:

      Kelly on Scotland 2015 Scotland needs 120,000 engineers in next 6 years ,fantasy labour pish the engineers we have now can’t get jobs fuck off labour.

    199. James Barr Gardner says:

      Something different……a Poem by Alexander Gray.

      SCOTLAND

      Here in the Uplands
      The soil is ungrateful;
      The fields, red with sorrel,
      Are stony and bare.
      A few trees, wind-twisted –
      Or are they but bushes? –
      Stand stubbornly guarding
      A home here and there.

      Scooped out like a saucer,
      The land lies before me;
      The waters, once scattered,
      Flow orderly now
      Through fields where the ghosts
      Of the marsh and the moorland
      Still ride the old marches,
      Despising the plough.

      The marsh and the moorland
      Are not to be banished;
      The bracken and heather,
      The glory of broom,
      Usurp all the balks
      And the fields’ broken fringes,
      And claim from the sower
      Their portion of room.

      This is my country,
      The land that begat me.
      These windy spaces
      Are surely my own.
      And those who here toil
      In the sweat of their faces
      Are flesh of my flesh,
      And bone of my bone.

      Hard is the day’s task –
      Scotland, stern Mother –
      Wherewith at all times
      Thy sons have been faced:
      Labour by day,
      And scant rest in the gloaming,
      With Want an attendant,
      Not lightly outpaced.

      Yet do thy children
      Honour and love thee.
      Harsh is thy schooling,
      Yet great is the gain:
      True hearts and strong limbs,
      The beauty of faces,
      Kissed by the wind
      And caressed by the rain.

    200. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      STV weren’t bad during the Referendum, not perfect but not bad. But they’ve been going downhill steadily. I think there are ties between STV and the Herald, perhaps there’s some connection there.

    201. Kenny says:

      It is imperative that NO voters are shown how they are worse off for having voted NO. I wonder at the enormous size and possibilities of the Google search computers. What we needed is some programme that could compute for individuals are they “better together” or would an indy Scotland better serve their interests?*

      [* This should be easy for pensioners on just the miserly state pension]

      Unless some tech wizard can create such a programme, we are just going to have keep persuading. But I think we definitely need to have information at our fingertips, in order to show individuals what “better together” really means for them financially… It is important to concentrate on people as individuals: sadly, No voters are not the type to care about 1/4 children living in poverty in our oil-rich country…

      On the subject of money, it was amusing for me to hear the views of someone who is very knowledgeable about investment and not just any old City drone, very critical of the whole “money as debt” system. He views the SNP as some, I quote, “hard left” loons. Down sarf, they obviously think that, come independence, we will abolish money and build an enormous “John Maclean Commune”, all living in “Tommy Sheridan House”. Sigh! I did not bother mentioning the likes of Swinney or SNP good government…

      But I did wonder at the SNP being thought of as “hard left”. Goodness knows what that makes me — and I am sure most on here are well to the left of the SNP and frustrated by their occasional lack of energy for radical change…

    202. punklin says:

      A benign interpretation of writers like Farquharson and Eaton is that they just don’t understand the nature of the pro-indy movement.

      But if you look a little closer, they are wilfully ignorant. They don’t get it because they are politically opposed to a genuine social democratic challenge to the status quo.

      This is compounded by their superficial thought processes.

      For example, Farqhuarson (why does that name sound so risible? Must be the “arse” sounding-part – whence he speaks)writes:

      “Look at this, for a moment, from the point of view of an English person…”

      Er, like me? I’m an English person and an active member of the SNP. The yoons love creating the myth of Scottish versus English. It’s just so tired,lazy,amateur (God knows how they get paid for writing such third-rate analysis)and, above all, untrue.

      Nobody I know – of the hundreds of pro-indy people I’ve campaigned with – has EVER judged me or anyone else by country of origin.

      More than that: I can honestly say after years of living and working in Scotland that the question of being English (I was born there, educated there and my accent is unmistakably English)has been irrelevant. People in Scotland, themselves of course springing from all over the globe, tend to judge you by what you say not how you say it.

      Like millions of others who vote in Scotland,native and incomers, I care not a jot for the English/Scottish non-issue. It’s an outdated music-hall cliche left over solely to furnish easy lines for dodgy comics and still,it seems, yoonalists.

      Our struggle is fundily-mundily political not nationalistic.

      Go ahead and keep up the delusion, George, Kenny and the other overpaid lackeys: you’re fooling nobody but your bosses and – saddest of all – yourselves.

    203. Petra says:

      O/T

      @ Kirsty says at 10:02 pm …. ”Petra, Exactly. I always love reading your comments. You always manage to say what I think but just in a much more intelligent, coherent way! :-)”

      Thanks for that Kirsty however I don’t know about the ”much more intelligent, coherent way”, lol. I quite often feel totally inadequate when I read some of the comments that are posted on here.

      @ Dr Jim says at 5:37 pm ….. ”STV going after the FM tonight.”

      Dr Jim I’m pleased to see someone else mention this and wasn’t it just utterly hellish!

      For those of you who didn’t see STV News at 6pm top of the bill was taking a look at Nicola Sturgeons constituency in Govanhill (back courts). The place was littered beyond belief. A number of people were interviewed mostly what seemed to me to be Pakistani or Indian people. One such man was begging for someone to get him out of there as it wasn’t fit for animals to live in. Two white women were interviewed and complained that the place was filthy / manky and then one screamed ”oh my God there’s a rat”. The cameras then swung round and filmed a large rat running into a hole.

      The female presenter commenced the whole piece by stating, very adamantly, that this is Nicola Sturgeons constituency … constantly pointing her finger downwards to make her point.

      No one was asked who exactly was dumping the rubbish, nothing was said about the rights of private landlords (or who they are), nothing was said about the millions of pounds that has been awarded by the Scottish Government to clean the place up, nothing was said about rubbish not being uplifted (or how often it’s uplifted) and Glasgow City Council wasn’t mentioned ONCE. Labour controlled Glasgow City Council that’s WELL aware that it’s Nicola’s constituency … Mmmhh!

      I’m posting a few videos but what you see on them doesn’t begin to compare with what was shown on STV tonight.

      Lets Save Govanhill ..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPfT80CKDVg

      Nicola Sturgeon’s Constituency A Filthy Tip and Blood Splattered Mattressses

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyqW3km2E2A

      First Minister Nicola Sturgeon questioned about Govanhill her local constituency 16/1/2016

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJG8MhqZZs

    204. ScottieDog says:

      Farquarson just spouts out the usual neoliberal hogwash.

      Any decent journalist might put two and two together and pretty quickly realise that neoliberalism is whats ending the union. It will take a sea-change in the running of the UK to rescue it.
      It’s really that simple.

      It’s often stated that we YES voters demonstrated blind faith in voting for independence, yet it is those who are staunch defenders of the union who are the blind and faithful. Watching successive govts repeat the same actions and expecting different results. Einstein alluded to this type of behaviour as insanity.

    205. heedtracker says:

      BBC 2 Newsnight’s fun right the now, George Galloway explaining to Newsnight crew the problems of accusing Russian President of murder. The other guest’s a civil rights campaigner complaining Russian media brainwashes Russia.

      Just before, watched BBC vote Trident Scotland explain how Trident is needed now more than ever, via Sarah Smith (BBC SLab) and UKOK Minister Fallon, with Sarah’s finger on the button, looking very jolly, for Armageddon and its not brainwashing if its UKOK. They’re not really maniacal enough to UKOK fire them are they.

    206. Robert Peffers says:

      @Balaaargh says: 21 January, 2016 at 8:52 pm:

      ” … “The blunt truth is that the SNP is not looking for a federal Britain that works. It doesn’t want Britain to work at all. It doesn’t want reform. It wants Britain to fail. It wants Britain to break up.” … “

      The above is sheer Establishment propaganda. Please do not copy it, Balaaargh

      “It hasn’t worked for a long time. It will never reform. It failed a very long time ago.”

      The UK isn’t Britain, (neither is it Great Britain), and Britain is not either a country, a kingdom or a state. It is a group of islands that contains eight different countries. Only four of them comprise the area governed by the United Kingdom Government. One other is a republic ad three are non-UK government Crown Dependencies.

      Don’t play their propaganda game for them.

    207. Petra says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill @ 8.53 ….. complain to STV …

      OH I WILL BE COMPLAINING TO STV DAVE. FIRST THING TOMORROW MORNING AS I’M TOTALLY SICK OF IT.

    208. Valerie says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      Just a couple of points on the STV piece.

      No disagreement there is an attempt to smear FM, but,

      STV stressed the area was full of private landlords, and it is notoriously hard to get them to act in a responsible way, because there is physical disrepair.

      The real issue is with Glasgow Council, who have the power to lean on private landlords.

      The issue with the rats and garbage is cumulative neglect, high turnover of uncaring, uncommitted tenants, compounded by private landlords making an easy buck.

      Not easy sorting out all the factors, but the responsibility sits with Glasgow Council, and FM was being careful not to blame as its her area, but to say let’s work together.

      However, I’m willing to bet that privately, she has a sheaf of correspondence to the Council on the issues.

    209. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “Before going any further, the term, “United Kingdom”, is an accurate and precise description of, (Wait for it! Wait for it!) “A KINGDOM”. A kingdom is a Royal Realm.

      It is neither a country nor a state.”

      The United Nations, the European Union and Nato have member states, not member kingdoms.

      Politically, the UK is a state.

      That is how it is viewed and dealt with by the international community.

      They sign agreements with the UK state, not with its purring kingdoms.

      They don’t give a damn about your kingdom pedantry.

    210. Nana says:

      O/T

      Hamilton N. & E. (South Lanarkshire) vote result:
      SNP: 1089
      LAB: 855
      CON: 469
      GRN: 83
      LDEM: 45

    211. Nana says:

      Hamilton N. & E. (South Lanarkshire) first prefs:
      SNP: 42.9% (+2.4)
      LAB: 33.6% (-9.4)
      CON: 18.5% (+8.4)
      GRN: 3.3% (+0.1)
      LDEM: 1.8% (+1.8)

    212. Joemcg says:

      OT-Petra, it’s been bugging me! The mind has all sorts of images! What IS your unusual hobby you alluded to a few stories back?! Lol!

    213. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “It will then remain for the sovereign people of Scotland to decide if they wish to retain Elizabeth Regina as their non-sovereign monarch.”

      Carmichael is more “sovereign” than you are.

      You can keep on shouting from the roof tops, but your “sovereignty” is totally worthless – has zero value in practice.

    214. Ghillie says:

      A wee bit OT: re Forth Road Bridge

      Last night there was an interesting article on the STV Player news site explaining that engineers had stated that the crack which lead to the closure of the Forth Road Bridge had been caused by a pin which had seized. That it could have started years ago but had held out till now owing to the steel being such good quality.

      AND that it could not have been detected during the routine inspections that were the norm for the time. IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORSEEN.

      That article seems to have disappeared now.

      I’m waiting with bated breath for appologies to the Scottish Government from the usual suspects.

      Silly me.

    215. Fairliered says:

      Robert Peffers: I agree with you. There is no nation called “Britain” However, Farquharson imagines there is, and pledges his allegiance to it.
      Thank goodness we know better -but then, we are educated by Wings, and not the colonial media.

    216. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill says: 21 January, 2016 at 8:53 pm:

      ” …
      Did anybody see the naked attempt to smear Nicola by association in the evening STV news coverage of some filthy flats in the Govanhill area of Glasgow.

      Complaints to STV should be made to 0141 300 3000

      Yes and STV are running it right now too. I just came in from my pal’s house and it was on as I left. So I don’t know how long the were at it. My thoughts were, “What the hell has that got to do with either the SG, SNP or Nicola Sturgeon? The houses are either private landlord, Housing Association or Glasgow Council but certainly not the Scottish Government’s. The only way it is the business of the SG is if the residents bring a proper complaint via their MSP, who happens to be Nicola Sturgeon.

      The problem is that as, either their MSP or as FM, Nicola’s hands are tied unless she is officially called to interfere in either a Housing Association, Local Council or private renters business by a constituent or a constituency organisation.

      It certainly is not the correct procedure to ambush the FM with the cameras going. Not only is it not the correct procedure but it indicates a politically motivated attempt that will most certainly boomerang back to the perpetrators.

    217. Molly says:

      Phil Robertson.

      We weren’t asked if we wanted to be a country?

      The question was ” do you think Scotland should be an independent country?”

      So what are you blethering about ?

    218. Papadox says:

      IMHO
      STV causing political mischief by trying to get FM bad publicity re Govanhill squalor and bad property management. Where does George Square stand in all this, who owns these properties? Appears its Nicola Sturgeon according to STV’s anti SNP propaganda unit.

      The EBC is doing a smoke and mirror job on Saville and EBCs part in his illegal career by aiding and abetting. I see nothing, hear nothing and even if we did we didn’t tell any managers and we didn’t talk about it among ourselves. By the time the report comes out in 5 weeks time it’s teeth, if it has any will be well and truly blunted.

      These spin doctors and professional witnesses for the Establishment and its friends, like Cyril Smith, Lord Janner etc cover up and confuse stories they are suppose to expose. MSM are just part of the cover up process for the Establishment and its miscreants.

      WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!

    219. Dr Jim says:

      @Petra

      David Attenborough and teams of top cameramen take ages to get the right shots for Davids wonderful nature programmes which I’m sure most of us love but somehow STV manage to turn up in Govanhill and in the midst of an interview about poor living the interviewee screams RAT and LO… STVs super trained cameraman not only knows where to point the camera, he does it without a perceptible wobble and still manages to capture in perfect focus a ten second shot of aforementioned RAT navigating its way along a broken down brick wall with dead and dying hedge branches twigs and household debris thrown in until it enters a hole in the wall

      This cameraman is a loss to the wildlife and nature photography business because to be able to do what he did is nothing short of spectacularly heroic
      Did this man flinch,shirk his duty to truth and justice, no he did not,
      and I know why, I take pictures, I’m no expert but have a little skill, just enough skill to spot a set up a mile away

      The picture of the RAT was taken at a different time and cut in and if anybody has that scene look again and you’ll see the difference

      The problems with Govanhill are not the fault of the FM and for obvious reasons I wouldn’t insult anybody on Wings with who is at fault but what I will say, is when STV start going down the road of the BBC and just faking film in order to justify a story it’s all over

      There are RATS we know there are but faking shots to suit an agenda, that’s just as LOW…as you can get

    220. Orri says:

      The essential hope of the unionist is that they are correct and Scotland really has entered a phase of us vs them. A hope that nationalists can readily dash by refusing to play their game of divide and conquer. Unless we can be in the voting booths or a prepared to abuse postal or proxy voting the only way we can win is by persuading people to leave them and join us.

    221. Joemcg says:

      This BBC cover up and no one saw ANYTHING shite regarding the Saville enquiry just confirms the corporation can do anything and say anything they want and get away with it. Referendum anyone?? Governments protects that sleazy organisation and the BBC protects the government/establishment. Scottish independences number one enemy,the BBC.

    222. Clootie says:

      …STV programme no surprise. They have been moving steadily towards the same level of bias as the BBC. Obviously the “State” has implemented the guidance using the trusted tools of threat and reward.

      The SNPbad attacks will now become more focused on Nicola. She is the main target now.

    223. Onwards says:

      Rock says:
      21 January, 2016 at 11:16 pm

      “The United Nations, the European Union and Nato have member states, not member kingdoms.

      Politically, the UK is a state.”
      ———

      To many people, the UK/England/Britain are all one and the same, regardless of historical or political differences.

      But Robert makes a valid point about Britain being different from the UK as a state.

      After independence, those *who choose to be*, will still be able to say they are Scottish and British.
      Many choose their identity as Scottish first, including myself, but we don’t have to be governed by Westminster to remain British.

      And we shouldn’t let them own that – because disowning the term could repel many who could otherwise be persuaded to vote Yes.

      We should see independence as the chance to get a better Scotland and also a better Britain.

    224. Capella says:

      @ Dr Jim
      You are never more than 6 feet away from a rat – even in Downing Street.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJFsNtKqy-c

    225. Michael McCabe says:

      @ call me dave 4:21pm Crowd funding Anyone ? I Would gladly throw in some Gunpowder.

    226. Papadox says:

      Good oneCapella.

      Think there is a rats nest in that property. Whenever the King rat gets replaced then I’m sure you will see a “RAT FLITTING” once Seen never forgotten.

    227. liz g says:

      Not for a minute trying to be evasive or cryptic but rather speaking in a way to respect privacy.
      A young man I know very well moved to London because of work,wanting to keep a base in Glasgow he rents his flat out.
      His one and only flat,but that still makes him a Landlord.
      He being a bit OCD read and complys with the current legislation, just as well he does because his flat is in the West End and his Tennant’s not only know their rights but are in a position to enforce them.
      The point of all of this is that the biggest issue for him is not Nicola Sturgeon but rather Glasgow City Council NOT keeping rats out of those back courts either.
      Despite not only collecting Council Tax but a
      Factoring Charge to do exactly that. The time ,effort,expense and committment to what he still sees as his “actual” home he undertakes to just get that council to meet its obligations you wouldn’t believe.
      Once again a story that only makes sense if you really want to say SNP bad.

    228. Molly says:

      Sometime last year, Penelope Keith was on doing a behind the scenes about the big BBC names.

      Bruce Forsyth, Peter Sellers etc all had a file the high heid yins at the BBC had put together from their initial interviews, to the programmes they made. She quoted from the correspondence.

      Mr Saville started at the BBC say early 60s ? Around the same time?

      Yet none of the same ‘high heid ones’ knew what was going on?

      Mm

    229. schrodingers cat says:

      Robert Peffers
      It is being dubbed as, “Jacketgate”, in the UK media.

      sally magnuson and a muslim lassie on this week, both wore the same/similar jacket

    230. Capella says:

      The King Rat was challenged by Angus Robertson over British military advisers directing Saudi attacks on civilians in Yemen – without the approval of Parliament.

      I didn’t notice this item on the BBC but RT covers it.

      https://www.rt.com/uk/329699-cameron-snp-yemen-war/

      “It was revealed by Sky News on 8 January that UK military personnel were embedded in the operation rooms of the Saudi military. The experts are believed to be helping Saudi forces coordinate attacks against the Houthi rebels in Yemen.”

      Saudi is now exporting cheap oil to Poland to replace their Russian supplier. UK is to send 2,000 troops to Poland to take part in a NATO exercise there. Other NATO exercises in Ukraine and the Black Sea are ongoing.

      Did we vote for this?

    231. Paula Rose says:

      Just love the way a fab post by the Rev brings out the trolls – always a good sign that we are paying for quality.

    232. call me dave says:

      Good article on Newsnet Scotland:

      Titled:

      ‘Now on BBC Scotland … the news from Scottish Labour’

      Sound clips from the BBC Scotland in how they manipulate the news over a couple of days. We all know it’s the way they tell it.
      Worth a look and listen.

      🙂

      Thanks for that election result Nana:

      SNP x 2

    233. Betty Boop says:

      O/T

      @ jdman

      Hi John,

      Came across your “bugle call” to lapsed posters in a comment from the middle of December. I was out of the country then although we did have wifi/internet, but, you are right, I have not commented since October except to wish everyone a happy new year on off topic.

      So, I shall wish you (and anyone else who didn’t see it) the same. Please give our best to Irene. Ta.

    234. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      An article in the Herald “A forum in robust, if not rude, health” to which I posted:

      Unfortunately the new random moderation policy of the Herald doesn’t support the claim that “our forum is still enjoying robust health”, more like plain rude to posters.

      I expect this comment will be moderated out.”

      They must think we’re stupid and don’t bookmark threads and go back a few hours or even a day or two later, to see our postings and that of others deleted, postings that totally follow the rules and guidelines for posting but for some reason, fail to appeal to the Herald.

    235. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Betty Boop –

      🙂

      Hoots tae you and yer man, hope all well, and HNY to ye’s both.

      Many ‘regulars’ seem to be laying low right now, perhaps taking a long deep breath before all the summer excitement begins.

      Keep in touch!

    236. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ghillie

      Still there on STV website:

      “Forth Road Bridge closure down to single seized pin, MSPs told”

    237. Kininvie says:

      @ Rock

      You are of course correct – realpolitik takes no notice of historical pedantry. As far as the international community is concerned, the UK is a sovereign nation state – and that is the entity they will deal with until circumstances change.

      In so far as politics within the union is concerned, your position is less certain. It is true that the Westminster governments assert the sovereignty of Queen in Parliament on every available occasion, but domestic realpolitik suggests that that sovereignty is becoming increasingly constrained – I draw your attention to the HoL committee’s debate on the Scotland bill in particular, and the potential effect of taking the Sewell convention into statute. While in theory it will remain true that Westminster retains the right to legislate for Scotland, no matter what Holyrood says, in practice it would not dare for fear of the consequences.

      Thus we see that sovereignty is more dynamic and less fixed than you might suppose – and it is precisely this realisation that is causing disquiet in the hushed corridors of the upper house.

    238. Reviresco says:

      O/T
      Enquiry says Purin “probably” ordered assassination of Litvinenko. No firm evidence. Not the usual delay with this report; or usual wishy washy hand wringing whitewash. Straight in there with the guilty verdict. The great British establishment at its best.

    239. Sandy says:

      Re the perpetraters of the Govanhill mess. Round them up & put them in an abandoned refugee camp surrounded by a razor wire fence, preferably electrified for 6 months or until they learn to behave like human beings. (& on basic UN rations).

    240. jdman says:

      Dave McEwan Hill
      “Did anybody see the naked attempt to smear Nicola by association in the evening STV news coverage of some filthy flats in the Govanhill area of Glasgow. They used some coverage of last week as part of it which was filmed by some community group in an ambush of the First Minister so this must have been passed to STV by some enemies.”

      Absolutely NO doubt about it, that was an ambush, she needs to get smarter and not assume everyone is as nice as her, send out a security screen to prevent/block (free country though) any attempt as this clearly was to smear her.
      and like your wife My wife also saw it for what it was.
      __________________________________________________________
      Bob Peffers
      “That’s the two alternatives, Phil, either you are inherently thick or no more than a, (probably paid for), unionist troll?”

      Eh number two, #77brigade.
      ______________________________________________________
      Fred
      “You have to hand it to the British state when it comes to hypocrisy, the furore over the unfortunate death of one Russian spy for MI6, while Britain is colluding in mass-murder in the Yemen,”

      I watched the “shock horror” display in the parliament and I have to say there were some epic performances of total hypocrisy on display, not least from the shadow home secretary Andy Burnham, and the labour woman who complained the home secretary “wasn’t going nearly far enough in bringing the Russians to task” for having the bloody cheek to allow someone to “wander the streets of London with Polonium 210” (which in itself is a fair point) but has zero concern about British weapons used in war crimes in the Yemen,
      One person died, I accept that Russia overstepped the line of what is and is not acceptable and the Russians would appear to have form on this, in Georgi Markovs murder with a poison-tipped umbrella when it would seem thy performed a “hit” on behalf of the then Soviet government in Bulgaria,

      But the best (ironic) laugh had to be kept for the idiot who thought May should have been taking THE UK’s complaint to the UN security council (good luck with that) the withering stare from May spoke volumes.
      ________________________________________________________
      Dr Jim
      “Did this man flinch,shirk his duty to truth and justice, no he did not,
      and I know why, I take pictures, I’m no expert but have a little skill, just enough skill to spot a set up a mile away”

      I saw that too, the woman’s hysterical behaviour was yet another example of an oscar winning performance, and the quick reactions of the camera were just TOO quick,

      I would go as far as to say that part of the “interview” should be taken up with the information commissioners as that was (without a doubt) propaganda, pure and simple, cumon SNP get your finger out we don’t expect you to just defend yourself, we deserve defending as well.

      btw I hope the rat got back to his owner ok.
      ___________________________________________________________

      onward
      And we shouldn’t let them own that – because disowning the term could repel many who could otherwise be persuaded to vote Yes.

      We should see independence as the chance to get a better Scotland and also a better Britain.

      Keep saying it, its getting through. 🙂
      _____________________________________________________
      Capella
      “You are never more than 6 feet away from a rat – even in Downing Street.”

      You are never more than 6 feet away from a rat – ESPECIALLY in Downing Street.
      fixed that for you. 😉
      _______________________________________________________
      Hiya Betty Boop
      I’ll pass on your salutations to Irene,
      still hopeful for Aiberdeen,
      you going?

    241. jdman says:

      South African guy on tv breeds and releases Rhinos, says he’s bred over 750, all good, but he then has them darted with tranquilizers and their horns (painlessly) cut off with a reciprocating saw, brilliant I thought, make the animals valueless to the poachers, then we hear he then sells on the horns to the Asian markets @$40.000 dollars a kilo, all he’s doing is keeping the trade open and making it worse,
      The only thing that makes him different from the illegal poachers is he keeps the animals alive so he can harvest their horns regularly when they regrow
      close this man down NOW he’s not helping!

    242. Reviresco says:

      Nick Robinson can’t conceal his glee at Cromarty Firth parked full of idle rigs

    243. CameronB Brodie says:

      jdman
      Richard Cotteral believes Georgi Markov’s murder was part of Operation Gladio, which is still active in Turkey, apparently.

    244. JLT says:

      @ Robert Peffers at 10:02 pm

      Spot on, Robert. I agree entirely with your argument here.

    245. StevieM says:

      @ kevin 21 January, 2016 at 10:46 pm

      Caught the stacks of engineers needed comment from Kelly and as a guy thats worked in engineering for 35 years he has me beat where all these jobs will be coming from in the next 6 years.

    246. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Petra 10.56pm The first vid at 5.3min gives a answer to Yhe amount of rubbish Govanhill Housing Ass are Offering residents ROCK BOTTOM prices for those people who want to sell up > Combine that with unscrupluous Landlords / Bank Owership , lowering the Area Standards & they,re quids in.

      Sending Inspectors in just adds to the costs & how many times have inspectors visited the area in the intervening years.

      GCC have the POWERS to force LANDLORDS & PRIVATE TENENTS to clean up the backcourts.

      Scottish Gov (Nicola Sturgeon should be holding Govanhill Housing Ass & GCC to account for the £9 mil, as a matter of ungency, how,why,where, monies spent to date.

    247. Training Day says:

      STV’s transparent and gratuitous attempt to smear the FM will have the opposite effect. As Dr Jim notes, the rat footage was very obviously spliced in, after the interviewee was given a cue to scream ‘OMG a rat’ mid interview. And thanks to STV’s technical ineptitude, the final thrust of the attack by the female reporter was lost in a series of Norman Collier-esque glitches.

      It may wash with the most benighted of naws, but then you could sell fresh air in a can to these goons..

    248. Dorothy Devine says:

      Training Day , I’d forgotten about Norman Collier – thanks for reminding me.

      Anyone who thought that was a passing rodent needs their gullibility checked out.

      “Cue Ratty”

      Cue ” yelp” and ” OMG there’s a RAT!”

      I would like to know who chucked out the sofa and the rest of the shit lying about but nobody asked.

      It was amateur night as far as interviews went and it was sincerely appalling and genuinely incredible!

      I wonder if it was an STV joke for it was most certainly laughable.

    249. Maybe Vladimir Putin should order inquiries into the deaths of Willie MacCrae, Hilda Murrell and David Kelly. I wonder what conclusions they would reach?

    250. Famous15 says:

      Scottish Television are in breach of Johann Lamont’s copyright.

      “There’s a squirrel” and “There’s a rat” is not too different to escape even if you end up with a scweem.

      Being amateurish is no defence for STV. They should return their staff to GCHQ for retraining.Do they not realise the damage they have done to British Imperialism by this gaffe.Little boys and girls on the streets of Glasgow are guffawing at there stupidity. The SNP are so annoying at maintaining a dignified silence and allowing the public to make up their own mind.

      “Oh there’s a clown” is not good enough.

    251. Ken500 says:

      Get the rats out of GCC and clean the place up. Spending £Millions policing sectarian Marches etc destroying the local economy. Every City has run down areas while Councils waste £Millions on grotesque projects against majority wishes and the public interest.

    252. ronnie anderson says:

      OMG there,s ah Rat wummin, that footage should be sent tae Bbc , they might offer her a part in River City.

    253. Andrew McLean says:

      jdman says: 21 January, 2016 at 8:37 pm

      o/t Memo to Aldi’s yours in anticipation of the removal of THAT ADVERT
      John King

      Really enjoying Rebellion on RTE, (for the interests accuracy I live in Dublin now, and also New York, I do seem to get about a bit as I was in Singapore for breakfast?) I would recommend it as well as Outlander and Turn, anyone see a pattern developing in broadcasting in other countries.

      And this leads me on to adverts for Aldi and lidl in Ireland,they promote their Irish with support for local Irish charities, and the price looks cheaper than here so with a bit of persuasion they should not have a problem, unless of course they do, then they will, if you know what I mean!

    254. mike cassidy says:

      jdman 4.18

      “I accept that Russia overstepped the line of what is and is not acceptable”

      Maybe next time you can be referee and spray a line in front of the FSB just so they know.

    255. ronnie anderson says:

      British Gov giving Rogue Landlords £5 mil to fix & cleanup they’re properties.

      Give the £5 mil to Homeless & Foodbanks & let the Slum Landlords pay for repairs themselves & enforce the housing standards, ie Habitable property.

    256. Luigi says:

      Alex Beveridge says:

      Maybe Vladimir Putin should order inquiries into the deaths of Willie MacCrae, Hilda Murrell and David Kelly. I wonder what conclusions they would reach?

      Ah, yes, the current establishment guff that Putin “probably” knew about or even ordered the assassination of Litvinenko. What a load of tripe.

      The real eye-opener has been the blatant collusion of the corporate media in this. They spend all their attention on this in an attempt to divert other, far bigger stories that considered are too inconvenient to tell. For example, take the media’s total blackout/blind eye to the UK-supported atrocities committed by their Turkish and Saudi pals in the middle east (Iraq and Yemen in particular) is completely indefensible, and yet they persist to ignore it. The UK is up to its eyeballs in international crime. The bombing of Syria is illegal but they is far worst mischief going on. It’s high time we got out of this union.

      The British media don’t do truth – especially when it is inconvenient. I’m quite impressed how effectively they can circle the wagons. Before the internet and social media, this would have been all sown up by now. No wonder they are pissed. 🙂

    257. Ken500 says:

      Cameron fails to get an EU agreement. Westminster caused the migration crisis in Europe with the illegal wars.

      The only thing the Tories don’t want in London. Trident. They dump it in Scotland, without permission.

    258. Nana says:

      Out of curiousity I typed into google STV faked Govanhill.

      Check it out and you will see the 2nd link for 3rd June 2015 and when you click on the link you get a message 404 page not found.

      So does anyone remember if last nights fakery is a repeat performance.

    259. jdman says:

      Cameron B
      “Operation Gladio”

      I recognised that name when you wrote it, I did hear about Operation Gladio before, you reminded me of it. 🙂

    260. carjamtic says:

      Ratatoulle the Movie

      Don’t know why,but minded of the Big Yins story of the retiring St Vincent Street toilet attendant.

      STV did the interview

      “50 years man and boy working here,how’s it feel to retire”

      ‘Glad,Glad it’s over, every day,place is full of them,rats, junkies,polis trying catch them….actually when somebody comes in for a shti….it’s like a breath…..a breath of fresh air’

      STV…….I smell shti ?

    261. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says:

      “Out of curiousity I typed into google STV faked Govanhill.
      Check it out and you will see the 2nd link for 3rd June 2015 and when you click on the link you get a message 404 page”

      If you take the url of that page from your browser and insert it into google’s search box with cache: in front of it, you can get some info back on what Google saw.

      This is a useful trick when sites remove a page. Sometimes Google retains some of the content, often no formatted properly. But text and images are usually ok.

    262. Flower of Scotland says:

      I was on the STV Facebook page last night advising them that it’s not a great idea to hijack the FM.

      Wasn’t really surprised by the abhorrent comments about Nicola Sturgeon but it’s pages are full of Yoonionists griping.

      Get onto it Wingers. Straighten them out folks!

    263. Capella says:

      @ Nana
      Here is the cached version for Govanhill fake
      https://archive.is/eBJXQ

    264. Nana says:

      @galamcennalath & Capella

      Thank you.

      Seems STV are like dogs returning to their own vomit.

      @Capella

      Saw you mentioned Yemen earlier.I posted this link earlier, must be in moderation.

      http://presstv.com/Detail/2016/01/21/446733/Yemen-US-Britain-Houthi-Daesh/

    265. Papadox says:

      Is it just me or has the “state goons” sunk to a new low with the willing co operation of the MSM and state propaganda broadcasters pumping out misinformation non stop.

      The state apparatus is on a mission to save Labour and limit SNP progress in the Holyrood elections. The union must be defended at all costs and anything goes, I do believe anything goes. If the SNP clean up at Holyrood again then the game is over for Westminster and they know it, so watch this space. Every dirty trick in the book will be trundled out and used whatever the cost.

      We are threatening the establishments position and perks and that will not be tolerated.

      When we see how wonderful the inside of a nuclear sub looks, the elder ones amongst us remember the advice broadcast by EBC for the Government in the early 50s. Close the windows. Get under the stairs or a table and cover your head with your hands. That was to protect us from nuclear attack. They forgot to tell us the radiation would be fatal for hundreds of years.

      For the silly old NAWBAGS we aren’t talking about WW2 here, arp’s and all that shit. The photo of the sub looks that good suggest they tie it up at London Bridge and charge the tourists for a look round. A BETTER TOGETHER.

    266. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I don’t like being considered as spam.”

      Then either take it up with the developers of the anti-spam plugin, or get used to life without Wings, because there isn’t one chance in a million that we’d exist at all without an automated spam filter. Spam comments come in in hundreds or thousands by the HOUR. You’d need a team of 10 people working round-the-clock shifts to keep them down manually. There will always be people caught up as “false positives” once in a while, but that’s just an unfortunate fact of life. Blame the spammers, don’t take it out on us.

    267. gus1940 says:

      Just as The Herald has joned The Scotsman in the frantic race to scrape through the bottom of the unionist barrel of lies and smears last night’s disgraceful assault on Nicola and The SNP re the Govanhill housing problem is surely final proof that STV has joined The BBC in the desperate campaign of biased political reporting.

      Nowhere was Glasgow’s Labour Council or its reponsibility for the situation mentioned – they really must think our heads zip up the back.Forgive me for thinking that Cleansing and Environmental Health is a local government responsibility.

      These latest developments show just how desperate The Guys In The Black Hats are to stop another SNP majority in May as they realise that would sound the inevitable death knell of the union in double quick time.

      SNPx2 and to hell with Sillars and the other divide and rule merchants. – one has to ask what are their motivations and who are their real masters

    268. ewen says:

      @Andrew McLean

      Did you catch Aldi Ireland’s Burns offer on Sunday?

      I picked up a load of haggis in Aldi Carlow. They didn’t have any irn bru though Topaz are selling it now.

    269. Jack Murphy says:

      Nana said at 8:14am:-
      “Now on BBC Scotland … the news from Scottish Labour
      http://newsnet.scot/?p=116286
      This REALLY deserves a read.

      OT—do the newsreaders on Reporting Scotland and elsewhere on the BBC Scottish Network ever feel they are being ‘used’?
      Surely some of them must feel a bit uncomfortable. 🙁

      I work in a profession where truth is paramount at all times—-lives depend on it.
      Over to you BBC Scotland.

    270. Chic McGregor says:

      Kelly in an uninterrupted SNPBad radio rant the other day included housing associations in his long list.

      It was Labour who presided over and supported the council house sell offs to housing associations before the SNP got into power.

      Locally, SNP members opposed it and nationally, SNP leader Alex Salmond signed the EDM opposing it in Westminster.

    271. Ruby says:

      I wonder who Farquharson’s audience is for his article.

      Is the purpose of the article just to incite hatred?

      It would be interesting to read the comments on his article to see how many anti-Scottish comments he has elicited.

      I think Kenny Farquharson like Alan Cochrane is completely bonkers unfortunately it would seem there are people who take them seriously.

      I often wonder if these two hacks are the ‘pretty women’ of the MSM in that they will be/do anything their employer wants them to be.

    272. Ruby says:

      Jack Murphy says:

      OT—do the newsreaders on Reporting Scotland and elsewhere on the BBC Scottish Network ever feel they are being ‘used’?
      Surely some of them must feel a bit uncomfortable. 🙁

      Ruby replies

      I suppose like Julia Roberts in ‘Pretty Women’ they need the money.

      They’ll be hoping that a billionaire businessman will come along one day and take them away from it all and they can live happily ever after!

    273. Gary45% says:

      Had a wee look at one of the videos about Govanhill.
      If your housing area is that bad, get your finger out if your arse and clean it up yourselves.
      Don’t make excuses about “we pay our community charges e.t.c”
      The rubbish in these areas is an embarrassment, the locals will know who the culprits are, name and shame, rather than trying to blame the SNP. Ah but that’s called “Grassing”. I think its time the locals grew up, and took some pride.
      A wee tip(excuse the pun) for the outdoor TV repair guy “watch out for the rain”. soggy telly no worky
      Why is this woman not chasing up the private refuse collectors as she stated the local authorities take nothing to do with the refuse collection.
      If I have a joby on my carpet, there will still be a joby on my carpet, unless I clean it up.

    274. jdman says:

      Mike Cassidy
      “Maybe next time you can be referee and spray a line in front of the FSB just so they know.”

      They transgressed the unwritten lawr mate!

    275. Andrew McLean says:

      ewen says: 12:07 pm
      Did you catch Aldi Ireland’s Burns offer on Sunday?

      I didn’t I watched on I player, my vpn was blocked AGAIN! so didn’t watch live! Swine’s, If any wingers want to watch RTE first download http://www.vyprvpn.com/refer?ar=48ufen5ker6qs_1
      This will allow you to see Rebellion, a good series about the formation of the free state, the only thing off-putting was the forest of moustache’s or whatever the collective noun for that is?

    276. Fred says:

      Putin might also like to investigate the murder of Mr Finucane the Irish lawyer & other murders there too numerous to mention, the assasination attempts on General De Gaulle, the numerous US attempts on the life of Fidel Castro, the Gibralter murders, Robin Cook’s timely demise & the murder of the inventor (Bull) of the Super Gun. Just a few to be going on with.

      Britannia Waives the Rules, as ever!

    277. jcd says:

      STV should be advised that there’s a serious rat infestation problem in George Square as well.

    278. Rock says:

      Kininvie,

      “Thus we see that sovereignty is more dynamic and less fixed than you might suppose – and it is precisely this realisation that is causing disquiet in the hushed corridors of the upper house.”

      It may be dynamic but generally refers to the citizens of an independent state.

      My point is regarding Robert Peffers’ repeated pedantry about Scots being “sovereign” meaning we can get rid of the monarch if we want to or run our affairs as we want to.

      In practice, we are an English colony after more than 300 years and can’t even get rid of a disgraced, lying MP let alone the purring monarch.

      Colonised people claiming to be “sovereign”. Surely we aren’t that stupid?

    279. Rock says:

      Onwards,

      “But Robert makes a valid point about Britain being different from the UK as a state.”

      Robert Peffers makes his usual pedantry.

      Gordon Brown called us North Britain while we were still a colony.

      Robert Peffers wants us to be North Britain even after independence.

    280. Lenny Hartley says:

      Rock go and hide yourself under one.



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