The Forth Road Bridge FAQ
Over the last few days, as most of Scotland’s media has focused on hysterical smear stories and outright lies, we’ve been digging around trying to uncover the truth about events around and leading to the closure of the Forth Road Bridge.
Here’s what we’ve got so far.
————————————————————————————————————–
1. The reason there isn’t already a second road bridge at Queensferry is the Labour Party. When they came to power at Westminster in 1997 one of their first acts was to cancel the building of a new bridge planned by the previous Conservative government, claiming that building it would cause traffic congestion in Edinburgh.
2. When the Scottish Parliament was restored in 1999 and Labour ran it for eight years, they continued to stall and delay and oppose the building of a second bridge, despite the increasingly urgent warnings of the Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA) that one was needed as soon as possible due to traffic load on the old bridge.
3. Prominent Labour figures, meanwhile, were still insisting that there was no need for a new bridge as the old one could survive indefinitely, and concentrating all their attention to building the Edinburgh trams instead, reacting with fury to any suggestion that the bridge was a greater priority.
4. When the SNP came to power at Holyrood in 2007, within months they’d analysed a study and announced that a new bridge would be built.
5. Labour, still in power at Westminster, continued to obstruct and delay the bridge as much as possible, refusing the Scottish Government permission to use advance capital funding to get the crossing built quickly and suggesting that they instead save up for several years, or use cripplingly expensive PFI to finance it.
(Even though PFI was the reason they’d given for cancelling the Tory one in 1997.)
6. Meanwhile, the old bridge was still suffering under the strain of far more and much heavier traffic than it was designed for in 1964. However, strengthening work over the years had enabled it to adapt to the higher load as a temporary coping measure while the new bridge was built to relieve it.
7. This was part of a conscious general strategy to minimise disruption to bridge users until the new crossing was operational, at which point major repairs to the old bridge could be undertaken. In 2012 Forth bridgemaster Barry Colford told an International Association for Bridge Maintenance and Safety conference at Lake Como in Italy:
8. In 2012 the Scottish Government decided that in the light of budget pressures it would dissolve FETA within three years and hand responsibility for the bridge over to Transport Scotland. It advanced the Authority money from future budgets so that it could fund maintenance work from its reserves until its dissolution.
9. In 2009 FETA had decided to defer some repair and strengthening work which had been planned for 2010, in order to manage its budget effectively and also prioritise the most important safety issues, which at the time still mainly concerned corrosion of the bridge’s main suspension cables.
Replacement of one complete section of the bridge was avoided because it would have entailed closure of the bridge and major disruption, which FETA hoped could be avoided until the new crossing was operational.
These factors – NOT any budget shortfall – were the reason behind the decision, according to FETA convenor and Liberal Democrat councillor Tony Martin:
10. In 2015 Barry Colford imposed a 150-tonne weight restriction for abnormal loads as a preventative measure to reduce unnecessary strain until the section was repaired or replaced. Such a restriction would have almost no effect on bridge users, loads of such a size being extremely rare.
11. Part of the section which was originally scheduled to be replaced as part of those repairs developed a crack in December 2015, leading to the bridge being closed as a precaution to avoid greater damage. The defective part had not previously been thought to be at risk and the problem had not been foreseen.
An inspection in June 2015 had given the area a clean bill of health, according to Transport Scotland press officer Danny Chalmers.
There’d been no reason to predict or expect the failure. Sometimes things happen.
————————————————————————————————————–
In summary, then, what we know is this: that for almost 20 years Labour have first cancelled, then obstructed and delayed, a second bridge that would otherwise have been operating now. Had that bridge been in place major repairs could have been done to the old bridge, rather than having to be delayed in the hope of minimising disruption.
Had FETA felt that these major repairs were urgently required, it had the money in its reserves to carry them out. It chose instead, quite reasonably, to try to stall and buy some time until the new bridge was due to open next year, thereby avoiding the total closure that the repairs would have entailed.
The sudden unforeseen failure of a part which had been regularly inspected and not found to be under any dangerous stress then forced a precautionary closure of the bridge. There was at no point any risk of the bridge collapsing. Had the defective part failed entirely, it would have caused damage that would have taken far longer to repair, but the bridge would not have fallen into the Forth.
FETA took a calculated risk which was in effect a “no-lose” gamble. They hoped a bridge closure could be avoided, but as their only other option was to replace a whole section – which would DEFINITELY close the bridge, and for longer – current events leave bridge users no worse off than they would have been had the work been done.
And that’s the story. On taking power the SNP commissioned a second bridge as fast as possible, and FETA (a body dominated by councillors from Unionist parties) acted sensibly and responsibly in trying to keep traffic running by patching up the old bridge until the new one could relieve the burden and enable major work to be done.
The only people who can definitively be identified as being at fault are the Labour Party, without whom there would already be two road bridges across the Forth at Queensferry. Readers may feel that it’s little wonder that they’re making so much noise now, in a frantic attempt to distract attention from their own culpability.
Labour remain tied to old habits – lie, lie, and lie again, ensure the population remains docile, convinced the only way is Westminster’s way.
When it works you get elevated to a knight or a lord.
Excellent resume.
I wonder why no newspaper or TV broadcaster has even attempted to analyse the complete road bridge picture.
As usual they are not interested in the truth just cheap headlines.. normally of the SNP baad kind.
It appears that the liebore party are using that old Glasgow alibi…”It wizny me”
PFI: profit from ignorance (schools)…profit from illness (hospitals)…profit from inconvenience (infrastructure).
The objective is to turn millionaires into billionaires!
Labour are obsessed with it!
Useless Labour/Unionist again. They would rather illegally bomb the Middle East to bits than improve the UK/world economy. .
Changes will come in Scotland when Scotland has it’s own tax raising powers or votes for Independence.
It should be noted that although the Forth Road Bridge was opened in 1964 (I was there), the Westminster government started the project in 1958 and crucially based traffic use on 1958 figures instead of future proofing by basing on projection estimates for, say 50 years ahead (ie 2008) or even 30 years ahead (ie 1988) It makes you wonder what was their thinking?
…it’s just a pity that many Scots will never learn the truth due to being force fed unionist propaganda.
We have never had news in Scotland. It has always been spin.
Keep up the good work Rev – more and more people are starting to realise just what is going on and how they are being manipulated.
Thank you for yet another wonderfully lucid analysis, Rev.
We already knew that Labour can’t do basic arithmetic (air passenger duty), or spelling (genertaion).
Now you have demonstrated that their grasp of history is similarly non-existent.
No doubt they will blame the SNP for their inadequate education.
Facts, sources, timelines, all laid out in order.
That’s all folk ask for. 🙂
Labour are finished in Scotland. 40 MPs gone. Hanging on by the fingernails in the regional list vote.
They are now just a collection of 2nd rate careerists.
Labour – all those years in power north and south -totally useless and nothing to show for it but some overpriced trams.
Alex Rowley frothing at the bit on BBC this morning just unbelievable. Should hide their heads in shame.
Not heard much from their leader come to think about it.
Good summary and timeline.
Hope everyone shares it widely.
To be fair, it not just Scottish Labour at fault: had the Greens got their way, we’d have no replacement bridge under construction.
Remember that, when Harvie begs you for your list vote in May.
Excellent summary of the facts. Is Stu the only journalist in the UK?
More and more people are realising that the CorpMedia are mostly spouting politically motivated half truths (or lies as we used to call it, or even propaganda).
But we know they are reading WoS. The lack of any real information in the mainstream is an index of how much control the right wing has in the UK. We seem to have become a banana republic without even any bananas.
Clootie says:
“it’s just a pity that many Scots will never learn the truth due to being force fed unionist propaganda.”
I think the Rev’s essential truth ….
“for almost 20 years Labour first cancelled, then obstructed and delayed, the building of a second bridge that would otherwise have been operating now”
… should form the basis for a leaflet distributed throughout East Central Scotland (at least) in the run up to May. Not pro anyone else, but just letting voters know what Labour have done. Labour deserve no less!
Well, dear voters of Scotland, there we have it!
It’s no surprise that the Labour party is in terminal decline despite the media support and deflection being way, way over the top in supporting their guff. Squirrels, I will give you squirrels!!
The Labour Party cannot be trusted with anything and are a disgrace to politics.
At the Holyrood elections next May the choice has to be SNP 1 and 2.
Even the Tories look like a more capable opposition party (and I say that grudgingly).
Great piece.
Wonder if Jackie Bailie still wants an enquiry. ???
I think we should insist.
Truly exceptional journalism.
Why can’t the media do this. Seems to be their ploy is to mislead and lie and then lie again to cover up their lies.
I am so sick of it all.
In the old days when I bought newspapers they always contained a ststement to the effect that they were ‘Registered At The GPO As A Newspaper’. The statemnet usually appeared either at the foot of the Leader Column or at the foot of the back page.
I presume that to gain such registration it was necessary for the publication to satisfy The GPO as the Registration Authority that the publication satisfied government rules as to what constitutes a newspaper.
Does anybody know what these rules are/were and if said statements still appear on what now masquerade as newspapers?
Given that almost without exception none of the papers published in The UK are any longer what we used to call newspapers and are just propagnada lie sheets is there any way that complaints to whatever body regulates registration these days could be an avenue to do something about the lies which deluge us daily?
@Gus 1940,
Registered as a paper at the PO was necessary only to receive reduced rates of postage by surface mail (ship), but more importantly by air mail,which was very expensive. Many British people sent newspapers to relatives living abroad.
The news content was irrelevant
The SG should agree to a full public enquiry with the provision that the conclusion is published in full and without spin on the front page of every “Scottish” chip wrapper.
On another note, from the New Civil Engineer article –
“Scottish finance secretary John Swinney had asked for special permission from the UK government to pay for the new bridge with cash from future capital budgets.”
Anybody else find that just a teensy bit humiliating?
That’s why they get Labour.
Labour must put patches all over their clothes in case a hole ever appears somewhere. This is their suit…
link to postimg.org
@Rev
You should be ashamed of yourself, every quote you make is linked so people can check its source. That’s no way to do media, you’d never make a wildly accusatory baseless unverifiable Unionist anti-SNP type of “journalist” 🙁
Isn’t it wonderful, having a Unionist meejah and parties dedicated to making sure nothing happens in Scotland?
Even when the odd capitalist, like Donald Trump, actually wants to invest in Scotland he comes under ferocious hate attacks. Look at the capitalists that threatened to pull out of Scotland, or put prices up if we had Devolution, never mind Independence. Lady Moan is rewarded for putting Scotland down and employing slave Labour abroad. Lords Darling, Alexander, and Foulkes are rewarded for saving the Union, whilst opposing anything of worth happening in Scotland.
Norway. has built bridges roads and tunnels to their islands and highlands, whilst directing industry there and can build tunnels under their main cities to alleviate traffic. We can do nothing and reward those who oppose any progress, even creative capitalism in the absence of State intervention.
Hmmm, notice Slab dribbling on about a focussed parliamentary inquiry. Little doubt the focus they want will avoid any and all culpubility on their sad input to the state of the FRB.
Stuff that, full historical public inquiry just as soon as the immediate issue is resolved.
Bring it on.
Reporting in time for digestion just prior to May 2016.
I expect to see this in all the msm printed press tomorrow. No?
The problem with a public inquiry is … they wouldn’t report before May!
Mind you, reporting just prior to the council elections in May 2017 might be more effective anyway!
However, the inquiry would need to have a wide remit covering why we don’t already have a replacement. Investigating recent maintenance and the closure itself, isn’t where the real problems lie!
@Tyran,
Absolute belter, and very appropriate. Remindes me of the jacket worn by the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz. What would he and Labour have in common?
Of course. They were both looking for a brain.
One question i want to ask is what does the rev think about copying this and putting it on other
Forums with link of course (spread the info wide)
Reason i ask is if you just put a link most will say im not going there its a snp propaganda site
The alarm bell should have been sounded in March 2004 when inspection found corrosion, and thus weakening of the suspension cables.
Labour have left us with a woeful legacy of their time in government at Holyrood.
Thanks Rev – a clear description of the FRB’s history to date & who did what. Can’t ask for more 😉
O/T
Thanks for my Badge of Justice & sweeties- arrived this morning so not feeling left out anymore lol 🙂
Excellent article.
‘Will he be joining me in condemning the suggestion from David Davidson that a new bridge should be built at the expense of the tram routes in Edinburgh? That is an outrageous suggestion’ Sarah Boyack
SARAH BOYACK ‘EDINBURGH TRAMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FORTH ROAD BRIDGE’
Would it be fair to say that all the politicians who voted for the trams thought that it was outrageous to suggest that the Forth Bridge was more important than the Edinburgh trams?
yesindyref2
Agree that Rev makes it so easy to find the truth rather than believe the lies coming from eejits who have forgotten what they themselves posted online years ago.
O/T (very) Just received my Christmas/Happy New Year card from Nicola. Very nice of her to pick me out. Sorry guys and gals–next year maybe!
While they should have planned for increasing number of cars using the bridge as people became better off.
To be fair to the planners, they couldn’t foresee the increased weight of HGV vehicles that would also be using the bridge as due Beeching butchering the railways and freight moving from rail and onto the roads.
As for Rowley he has always been know here in Fife as Brown’s boy, two peas in a pod.
Excellent article.
‘Will he be joining me in condemning the suggestion from David Davidson that a new bridge should be built at the expense of the tram routes in Edinburgh? That is an outrageous suggestion’ Sarah Boyack
SARAH BOYACK ‘EDINBURGH TRAMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FORTH ROAD BRIDGE’
Would it be fair to say that all the politicians who voted for the trams thought that it was outrageous to suggest that the Forth Bridge was more important than the Edinburgh trams?
This “using facts” nonsense will never catch on. Unfortunately.
[…] The Forth Road Bridge FAQ […]
Once again, the Rev has demonstrated the vast devide, which exists between his investigative journalistic professionalism, which he regularly commands. Against the narrow minded flounderings,of the BBC and other MSM. Who’s only ambition, in their petty scribblings, is to undermine, lie, misinform, in order to insult the public’s intelligence. To outrageously demean the only competent governance that Scotland has enjoyed for centuries.
Hope this has been circuated to all unionist MSM? But I’m not holding my breath about them making use of this info they’re not used to seeing the results of ‘investigative journalism’.
Auld Rock
Excellent work which will now be used to rebut the frothing unionists.
What I am finding when using articles from WoS, they are instantly dismissed as – why would you believe that so and so.
They are using insults against the Rev to try to reject the evidence given.
Also any inquiry would be ‘focussed’ on what ever SLAB wanted to prove and therefore to be avoided unless it is a full open inquiry starting from when the bridge was built
If this bridge was in one of the poorer Eastern European countries or South American countries would it have been closed? Sometimes wonder about our health and safety rules and regs that go too far.
GMS
rowley car crash 2: 11 : 42
link to bbc.co.uk
OK, Jacqui, let’s roll with your transparency! We’ll start the minute you’re finished in Gregg’s.
Labour – lying, mealy-mouthed, two-faced, incompetent gravy-trainers. Crawl under a rock and die. You are an utter disgrace.
Great analysis Stu. Just one small disagreement. If labour had agreed to building a new bridge, you don’t honestly think that it would be finished? If the trams are anything to go by, the cost would have multiplied tenfold and the bridge would only go half way across.
They couldn’t organise the proverbial brewery night out.
caledonia says:
14 December, 2015 at 11:39 am
One question i want to ask is what does the rev think about copying this and putting it on other
Forums with link of course (spread the info wide)
Reason i ask is if you just put a link most will say im not going there its a snp propaganda site
Ruby Reples
There is an option at the end of the article to save as PDF.
Don’t believe the posters who say they are not going there they will probably have read this article before you had a chance to post a link.
Those who claim they don’t read wings are not worth bothering about they are trolls and trolls are best ignored.
I know they read Wings that is why I’m posting the following:
UNIONIST POLITICIAN BELIEVE ‘EDINBURGH TRAMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FORTH ROAD BRIDGE’
UNIONIST POLITICIANS BELIEVE ‘EDINBURGH TRAMS MORE IMPORTANT THAN FORTH ROAD BRIDGE’
Had to repost the above due to typo in earlier post.
I really enjoyed George Foulkes assertion that the bridge was somehow indestructible.
It’s a steel structure over salt water,subject to variable winds,high levels of rainfall and carrying loads it was never designed for.
The most meticulous maintenance regime every devised could never foresee all the things that could happen.
So now fifty years later it has some problems,if the SNP are still using that Oracle at Delphi, he should be dismissed, I am,frankly, appalled.
Rev.
You know it, we know it and the lying media knows it the question is, how much of the MSM fed public know it?
The term ‘journalistic integrity’ has for some time become an oxymoron in the SMSM. These people do not operate under normal human standards.
A balanced and fair media is an essential underpinning of democracy but in Scotland it is an underpinning which has had clearly visible and unaddressed cracks for some considerable time. (sic).
The best way forward is for us to relentlessly inform the public of the existence of independent on line media sources which are factually based, thoroughly referenced and which carries out logically cohesive in depth analysis – like Wings.
It concerns me that really only Wings, among the main on line outlets, fulfills all those criteria and indeed some of its rivals appear to be going backwards in several respects.
We need to reinvigorate our promotion of Wings.
How?
Suggestions?
How about a crowdfunded TV ad for a start?
There’s an interesting discussion on the FRB in Bellacaledonia link to bellacaledonia.org.uk
including comments about the lack of ferry services unique to Edinburgh:
“virtually all ports and port land on the Forth is today owned by a Cayman Island registered private equity outfit, who charge any ship (and passenger) an arm and a leg to use their dated facilities, and this ownership model makes investing in ports and shipping services more expensive than it need be. This also explains why urban waterfront redevelopment in Scotland lags 10-20 years behind the best examples – e.g. Barcelona, Genoa, Yokohama, Hamburg, Sydney etc etc”
Is just one example. Privatisation of our ports happened in 1992.
There’s also a link to a study carried out in Sheffield on UK infrastructure funding showing the huge advantage of London though, strangely, they don’t comment on Scotland.
link to archive.is
However that has been covered in WoS here:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
I think a wide ranging inquiry into infrastructure projects in Scotland would be an excellent idea.
If a truthful analysis like this, of the facts, were printed in the “news”papers they might find their circulation would stop plummeting. Are the owners really that blind that they don’t see this, or is being the “proud” proprietor of a newspaper about something else entirely?
These owners appear willing to go down with their ship, all guns blazing. The truth is priceless, I won’t pay a penny for their propaganda. Quicker their gone the better. Hope we can pick up their printing presses on the cheap and start some real journalism. I don’t think I’d be the only one to buy the Daily Wings or Wings on Sunday.
Bless!
Curious that ‘Wings’ omits the 65% cut to FETA’s budget made by the SNP Government which lead to maintenance work being ‘prioritised’!
A competent and objective ‘journalist’ would have surely mentioned that…
But never mind, lets just make it a ‘Labour baaad’ article instead.
As none of this was nothing to do with the SNP!
No sirreee Bob!
Remind me again, is transport devolved to Holyrood, and who were the Ministers in charge of infrastructure in the run up to this fiasco?
Why Alex Neill & Nicola Sturgeon!
No mention of them and their oversight over these decisions, of which they would have had to be informed of, is again omitted from Wings article.
Funny that!
Why anyone might think this article was written to excuse the SNP’s piss poor performance, in looking after a vital piece of national infrastructure.
As if Alex & Nicola were not happy with FETA’s performance, why not privatise looking after the FRB sooner?
But lets not mention the privatisation, that saw long serving and knowledgeable employees leave either!
Sadly this time blaming it on everyone else is not going to work, the SNP have been in Gov’t since 2007, ample time to take care of this issue.
For once the buck stops with them.
As I’m sure all those voters currently enjoying longer journeys to work, more overcrowding on trains, and all of this impacting on businesses, will be quick to realise…
In a few years when the ‘new’ bridge is built using knock off sub-standard Chinese steel, we can look forward to this happening all over again!
link to eef.org.uk
A fitting legacy to the SNP’s monumental ineptitude!
@Peter Craig
“I really enjoyed George Foulkes assertion that the bridge was somehow indestructible.”
TBF Two bridges would have caused considerable stress to Lord Foulkes and the other SLAB trolls by requiring them then to make decision regarding which one they take up residence under and decision making is not their forte.
Any enquiry should of course look at the full history of all aspects of the situation. The increase in traffic, the proposal for a second bridge to ensure capacity and resilience and who played what part in forming a credible long term strategy.
Labour can demand an enquiry all it likes. There is only one Party that is going to come out of it looking stupid, short sighted and incompetent.
Are the still calling the Queensferry crossing a “vanity project”. Or are they lying and pretending they built the new bridge now 🙂
Chic McGregor said: at 12:01 pm:-
…………”We need to reinvigorate our promotion of Wings.
How?
Suggestions?
How about a crowdfunded TV ad for a start?”
I agree with everyhting you say,but I’ll just remind everyone that Wings over Scotland also has a Twitter feed here:-
link to tinyurl.com
OR it can be accessed at top of this page—right hand column. 🙂
AS always a properly researched and analysed article on the Forth Bridge closure.
I nominate Rev Stu as SPAD to the FM!
Chic McGregor at 12.01pm
Whilst a TV ad in itself is not a bad idea in a normal Independent country you have to ask yourself which tv company would run it in Scotland? I’d venture to say none which is exactly why newspaper ads won’t work either.
Going by the Forth Road Bridge website, Frequently Answered Questions.. The bridge is just middle-aged..
link to forthroadbridge.org
“How long will the bridge last?
The original design life was 120 years but with proper maintenance the bridge will last longer than that. Within the design life, major components will require to be replaced such as the suspender ropes (replaced after 35 years), expansion joints and bearings. Surfacing on the deck needs to be replaced more frequently, especially as traffic levels grow.
Some doubt has recently emerged over the lifespan of the bridge following the discovery of corrosion in the main suspension cables, but we are optimistic that the dehumidification system currently being installed will prevent further deterioration.”
The other Q&As are worth reading
Mr Stuart at 12.06
Do you know what prioritised means? In thus instance, an unforseen and hitherto unexpected problem arose. This was if course given the priority it deserved in relation to the priority system enabled by the prioritization.
So everything that could have been done was done regardless of the overall budget which of course was reduced as patchwork was all that was required until the opening of the new bridge.
Otherwise, top trolling.
Dear Mr Stuart at 12.06
Obviously cheap Chinese steel procured by Giddy coke head isn’t ideal but unionists closed all the steel works to make us all better together.
@David McCann
Links and sources David.
Cannae beat it. 🙂
When they came to power at Westminster in 1997 one of their first acts was to cancel the building of a new bridge-
What’s far more shocking is the several hundred billion spent on England’s transport infrastructure by Bomber Bliar/ Crash Brown Labour UK.gov in just this timeline alone, starting at the 1994 Chunnel completion, focusing on the south east of England, then fanning out across England.
Scotland desperate for Forth Bridge replacement? No chance.
Stuart the balloon: “Curious that ‘Wings”
‘Stuart’ the balloon is a masochist.
He threatens to spray graffiti all over Wings but in reality enters this site because he enjoys getting pins stuck all over him.
Re promoting Wings, well there is nothing stopping each of us placing an ad in our vehicle windows and friendly indy supporting shops.
Whatever happened to scunnterbunnet’s ideas, I know the website remains but there’s been no posting for some time.
Queensferry Crossing – facts and figures
link to forth-bridges.co.uk
Is the editor of the “Scottish” Mail on Sunday polluting this site with hysterical abusive comments under the name of Stuart?
He and his pals in the Unionist media (i.e., virtually the whole media in Scotland) really don’t like getting telt, do they?
As usual, high standard journalistic content. How great it would be if WoS could could get itself a radio station?
Excellent analysis by the Rev. You can tell how excellent it is by the hysterical reaction from BritNat trolls. Oh dear, yet another failed smear attempt by anti-Scottish BritNats.
Coming soon to a BritNat “newspaper” near you: “Jocks refuse to accept BritNat propaganda! How very very dare they! Jocks! Know your place!”
While I seldom even read the comments from trolls, I did read this recent obfuscation from the nematode who calls itself “Stuart”
What a pathetic creature it is. Truly parasitic, of no use other than it’s own existence.
I shall not read it’s deluded rambling again.
One of your best, and that’s saying something. As an old diehard Labourite for more years than I care to remember, I feel more ashamed every day.
I agree about a TV advert. I’ll chip in. Right in the middle of Corrie, though I wouldn’t see it, unfortunately. Don’t watch it!
Today re Forth Road Bridge.–BBC News on-line:-
Header:-Derek Mackay: ‘Labour Twisting Facts’.
“But government agency Transport Scotland has said the restriction on exceptionally- large abnormal loads was not related to the present defect on the bridge.
Instead, it said it was related to potential unacceptable overstress to the truss end brackets and associated welds within the towers, which was being addressed by the ongoing strengthening works.
It also insisted the defect that resulted in the bridge closure was only identified in the past few weeks, and had not been previously predicted by engineers.
Mr Mackay told BBC Scotland Labour had been “deliberately misinterpreting and twisting the facts for their own petty party political gain.”
He added: “The priority right now should be to reopen that bridge, mitigate the impact on the community, as I am doing, and focus on that.”
Reporting Scotland tonight? We haven’t watched it for three years. Good riddance.
BBC:- link to archive.is
Labour Cancelled. Delayed, and Hampered all attempts to
replace the bridge and now they have the nerve to suggest wasting precious finances on an Inquiry?
Perhaps the SNP government should just read out the Rev’s research
above and show the world just how pathetic Labour have been in managing Scotland’s transport infrastructure.
Let us not forget the shambles that they created with the Edinburgh Trams, and please note that Jack McConnell gave Scotland’s money away to Westminster when it coulod hgave paid for a new bridge crossing.
Gordon Brown liked the PFI agreements that shows Scotland having to pay out over £300 Billion to PFI for some Hospitals and Schools that cost only £50 Billion.
The fool took interest rates that loan sharks wouldn’t expect.
Does anyone else think that perhaps these PFI companies may be behind the donations to Brown’s own charity?
Wonder if Yvette Cooper has her own charity as she seems to think outrageous interest rates from these guys are a good idea?
Most of us will know financial growth on the stock market is very low, if not an overall drop in recent times.
My small ISA pays out a derisory 0.5% interest rate.
Would anyone else be glad to invest in a Scot Gov Bond with 3%
interest that would pay for these essential services?
It would be the best deal available and it would remove hundreds of millions of pounds that we have to pay in interest.
I’m in, but will the politicians fight to stop these ideas as it will affect the money their banker friends have rolling in?
So Swinney had asked UK Gov for funds for maintenance to a major arterial infrastructure and been refused.
Pooling and sharing once again dear Scots.
Lollysmum says:
Chic McGregor
Whilst a TV ad in itself is not a bad idea in a normal Independent country you have to ask yourself which tv company would run it in Scotland? I’d venture to say none which is exactly why newspaper ads won’t work either.
I had similar thoughts about a bill board campaign, if the owners are unionists, what chance do we have?
that’s why I think that the signs that we use on our own private property is a possible option. those who have gardens and display signs prominently on major roads have been doing this for years.
we need to get the message out there somehow
Reading this shows without doubt the Labor Party were the culprits during their mis- rule while in office and all this trouble could have been avoided .It just shows we do not want Labor to have any input or argument with regard to the new crossing and maintenance on the Forth Road Bridge.They have proved themselves totally incompetent in the past.
It’s difficult to be sure when Labour are being deliberately incompetent to keep Scotland in the Union and when they are just being incompetent. I tend to think it mostly comes to them naturally.
They were in power in Westminster from 1997 until 2010, and during that period up until 2007 in Holyrood. What did they achieve? What is their legacy? A war without end and a right wing tory government which will be in power for the forseeable future.
They could have achieved so much for the people of Britain. They could have used the money spent on Trident and America’s wars to raise living standards and create employment. Instead they were too focused on trying to look relevant as a great power, and with their own personal gain to think about anything else.
The only reason they still exist in Scotland to any extent is because our ‘journalists’ prop them up with lies and spiteful anti SNP smears. With hard work and a bit of luck we’ll see the last of them next May. It can’t come soon enough for me.
Also…
“And Mr Swinney said the bridge – which could be opened in about nine years time”
So 2016 back then, and still looking at 2016 now.
On time.
Note that bit. It’s getting to be an embarrassing thing for Labour that the SNP’s projects are hitting their targets.
I would not call my self a nationalist, proud to be placed in the pigeonhole of an internationalist and I want to be freed from the yoke of the palace of westminster. How things are stacking up its got to be SNP vote 1 and SNP vote 2 in 2016. The pure sickness of the old parties and the MSM must be addressed for the betterment of everyone. Too long we have been on the back-foot trying to justify our existence, it must be time to flip that round.Looking forward to May 2016.
Wonder how much it would cost to do a Wings mailshot for every address in Scotland. Anyone any idea of the numbers involved?
If the TV already has adverts for newspapers like the Daily Record and for on line sites like Wonga and Go Compare I cannot see what plausible excuse they could come up with to refuse a Wing’s ad.
Trams versus Bridge.
A lot of cities have tram networks. Perhaps it is not a bad idea. If the project had been managed properly it would have helped! And, it’s not quite a ‘network’ and may never be.
Edinburgh had/has efficient buses. The trams seem like an extra, if that’s not too blunt a way to put it.
Conversely, the Forth crossing is an absolute necessity! And when experts were saying it needed replacing/duplication in the 90s it was sheer incompetence not to do something.
The working trams are no compensation for a buggered bridge!
And Labour’s legacy in all of this? Sending £billions of unspent Scots block grant back to Westminster. They couldn’t think of anything to spend the money on?
Every Labour supporter in Scotland should be made aware of this.
Same old Slab blustering, posturing, demanding enquiries and resignations. So sick of them and their tired knee-jerk and confrontational way of doing things. Now McTernan exhibiting a total lack of understanding of the problem but being given a platform to spout his ill-informed views.
I watched the Glasgow CC meeting recently, exactly the same. No substance or thought put into anything, just looking for another means of attack.
This whole episode has shown Slab and the MSM for what they are – utterly shameless in political opportunism.
Well done Rev Stu!!!
REV STU IS THE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST OF THE CENTURY!!! 🙂
Labour’s purpose in Scotland, like all Unionist parties, is to hold Scotland back. It must never become competition to London or the southeast. No, no – that would never do.
And for this they are rewarded with baubles and ermine.
FFS people of Scotland. Open your eyes. Get off your knees and tell these no-hopers where to go.
SNP x 2 sE2016
Asklair: I would not call my self a nationalist, proud to be … an internationalist
To desire Scotland’s independence returned is to suppose one is an internationalist because you hope that elevation places Scotland in the world once more AS A NATION STATE.
The first point (1) means that even the tories under Mr Major were going to build a bridge,and Labour under Mr Blair cancelled it. Saying something if even the tories were going to build a new bridge,but we had to wait more than a decade till an SNP administration actually began to make progress on it.
I listened to that segment from GMS, and though Gary Robertson did pursue Rowley a little, I didn’t get the impression of a ‘car crash’. Rowley was allowed to go on and on, I can’t recall how many times he used the word ‘gamble’, drilling away at that point. I could hear the ’empty rhetoric’ but can all the other listeners, those that this carp is aimed at, or does it serve its purpose to relay and maintain SNP bad?
We all have the facts here, over the last few days Rev’s provided excellent factual indisputable analysis of this bridge non-story, but still it’s being pushed relentlessly by the media outlets, gaining more traction in the minds of yer average, less informed than those of us on here punter.
It’s beyond frustrating knowing that these bastards are being given this much air time with this, you know that they will pursue an enquiry and that that will create massive distraction and even though we all know it it’s a farce. It could provide a massive smoke screen to cover Labour’s inadequacies as they are ‘holding the SG to account’. It won’t matter the detail or accuracy, as even the reporting of such an on going enquiry will favour the short ‘summary’ format with the ‘screaming headline’ fact free pish so typical of the rags like the Herald and DR. Where the SNP are set up to look ‘incompetent’.
All of that if it were to take place would set the ‘mood music’ leading up to Holyrood elections. Could it be that is what the true purpose of this is?
It just doesn’t make sense otherwise. Labour ‘think’ they have something they can ‘use’ here against the SNP, I don’t think for a moment they give a flying fuck whether any of it is true. All their energies are in pursuit of holding their positions as MSP’s, there is no level below where they’ll sink to in achieving those aims.
Their sole goal is destroying the SNP. It is not about the FRB, it’s about survival…backed into the proverbial corner, they are now lashing out viciously in an attempt to escape their certain demise. Are the SNP, being suckered into a distracting enquiry here? Could it cost them on the lead up to May?
This whole FRB fiasco from Labour needs to be shut down. Now.
Just waiting to see what that skank Jackie Bird has to say about the Forth Road Bridge on Reporting Scotland. Will she be fair, I doubt it.
Stuart says:
Bless!
Indeed Stuart, Bless your poor self.
Even the Tories recognized that a new bridge was needed and they don’t like spending any money outside the M25.
Pity the smoking gun “Urgent Repairs” articles being peddled by the Mail and the BBC actually print the email its based upon – showing readers how much they had to make up to get to “Urgent” and to “Repairs” from an email containing neither.
I see that Lesley Hinds has provided directly or via Labour spin doctors, her copy of the e-mail (it has her name at the very top, so confirms she provided the copy) to BBC Scotland who have published it online
Curious about why she or someone has underscored some bits and there is also a written note (confidential? maybe)
The BBC also redacted either Lesley Hinds position or e-mail address, probably to cover up the fact that she is a Labour councillor that was convener of FETA and not the Scottish Government
I can’t make my mind up whether Labour have gone into such wild spin over the FRB because they are simply desperate or whether it is to hide their outrageous incompetence over a second bridge
or both.
The fact is that the SNP have spent a goodly sum on a sound investment for the future which will allow ongoing refurbishment of the FRB with little to no disruption. So the FRB may well last 120 years.
Planning for the future. Not a Labour strong point.
Rev,
Yet more proof you are top of the range value for money.
Any chance that yoruself or some wingers with the skills and a bit of time out there could put some of your work like this in convenient PDF file sizes that could be printed off and given to those that are still under the spell of the MSM and also the netless ones?
Gordon Brown liked the PFI agreements that shows Scotland having to pay out over £300 Billion to PFI for some Hospitals and Schools that cost only £50 Billion
One of Labour’s Bliar/Brown’s PFI arguments is they say, that private sectors build to much higher standards than public. PFI contractors aren’t just better builders under PFI contracts, they are responsible for their build contracts throughout the, say 30 year PFI contract.
So PFI is actually value for money? SLab dominated Aberdeen for example has PFI contracts coming out the wazoo, are they working, was there an alternative, are ACC giant spends actually required? Aberdeen City Council has giant debt but they don’t want to talk about it, half a billion 2008 alone
link to archive.is
“Aberdeen City Council Special Report: Behind the granite facade lies a city in municipal ruin” said Hootsman.
BBC UKOK media scream its all Scottish shite, vote NO. Reality though? SLab dogma, versus, SNP pragma, hopefully?
eg.
Unionist zealotry/SLab dogma meets, “is the solution charging Scots students £9k+ a year?”
Scott Arthur ?@DrScottArthur Dec 3
Free university tuition in Scotland has not benefited the poor, say academics: link to independent.co.uk
Pretty clear that the reaction by the BBC and press is to deflect away from Labour’s links to what has happened with the bridge and are in full squirrel mode.
link to caltonjock.com
The BBC have changed their “Urgent Repairs” headline, having had it pointed out as factually incorrect. Its now “Email highlighted need for Forth Road Bridge repair” which I have also complained is still factually incorrect, strengthening or replacing something to cope with a heavier load is not a repair.
It just doesn’t make sense otherwise. Labour ‘think’ they have something they can ‘use’ here against the SNP,
You are probably right but if as seems likely the truss will get a protective boot and the bridge reopens soon the matter will soon pass. However, everyone will have been reminded on comment sections, blogs, Facebook and Twitter, which covers far more than Jackie Bird can do as Labour’s Press Officer, that Labour opposed a new bridge. The opening of the new bridge will then be solely an SNP feather in the cap and Labour will wail and bemoan their lot.
Excellent report Stu. Thanks.
I look forward to hearing Nicola ram the topic of the Forth Bridge down the thrapple of Mr Rennie and MS Dugdale at the demands for public enquiry reach fever pitch at Holyrood.
I never cease to be amazed at the malevolence Labour, LD and Tory politicians … never surprised though … all they seem to live for is
This carry on with the bridge is like a nightmare game of pass the parcel or musical chairs. And poor old Derek Mackay is the one that has been caught when the music stopped.
We know the truth Derek and I would think the majority of Scots also know that the SNP are not to blame for a crack appearing on an aging bridge.
In Dortmund they have put all city centre trams underground and connected it into a underground rail system as well. Edinburgh trams are a joke and 1950s thinking. I really think it was a vanity project to make the city mor European.
@Edward
Lesley Hinds is also on Labour’s candidate list for Lothians for the Holyrood election.
You couldn’t make it up! Her own party is effectively attacking her decisions while on the board of 8 members, 4 Labour, 1 LibDem and 3 SNP councillors I think from faulty memory, that controlled FETA.
Rev
If I may make just one quibble. In point 8 you wrote:
“It advanced the Authority money from future budgets so that it could fund maintenance work from its reserves until its dissolution.”
It sounds as if all the maintenance work was being funded from the reserves, which had in large part been built up from underspends on previous budgets or underspends on advances from future grants.
It was the shortfall between the grant and planned capital spend that was funded from the reserves.
In the Audit Scotland report on FETAs accounts for 2011-12
the total capital grant received was £11.804 million which was an increase in the budgeted expenditure which meant that £0.543 million was transferred to the reserves taking them to just over £7 million.
The report noted the 65% reduction in the 3-year grant and that any shortfall in planned capital expenditure would be made up from reserves. Some people get awful hung up on that 65%. It did mean that a degree of prioritisation had to take place but maintenance was still taking place and the degree to which work was being deferred is debatable.
In the accounts for 2013-14 the grant received was £9.7 million (£11.38 million in 2012-13)
Expenditure against the grant was £9.233 million (£15.737 million in 2012-13).
The surplus was added to the reserves taking them to £3.119 million (£2.652 million in 2012-13). So the reserves increased in 2013-14 but had decreased from 2011-12 as might be expected since they were being used to make up any shortfall.
What the figures show is that income via the grant was continuing and as the drop in the reserves from £7 million to £ 3.119 million, any shortfall was being made up from the reserves.
Sorry to have gone on at such lengths but I ploughed my way through the damn audit reports so…
When they open the new bridge next year, I think we should all attend the ceremony, waving big saltires.
Just to make a point. 🙂
Going by what you have uncovered Rev, I hope that the SNP agree to an inquiry into exactly how we ended up in this situation.
There will be a few in Scottish Labour who would shit themselves if an inquiry was set up.
Loved Rowleys’ quote ” that this came like a bolt out of the blue”. Wonder if he knows what a boltt looks like.! Election fever heating up ie … We need an enquiry, we need a formal enquiry, my constituents need to know, everything that’s going on.
Makes you wonder if we could just leave the bridge open for Rowley’s big mouth and ego and watch him fall to the murky depths….
We need to know who blocked the building of the new bridge, we need to know who forced millions of pounds being diverted away for a tram, we need to know!,,,,NoW!
I’m away to calm down.
Labour also seems overfond of public enquiries, regardless of whether they will do any good or re-coup any money. Labour also seems heedless of the costs of these enquiries. The enquiry about the Trams fiasco a case in point. Who gains from this waste of public money.
@caz-m
In the Herald: Mr Mackay [SG Transport Minister] said: “The first priority for me is to get the bridge opened. The second priority is to support business in Fife and to support people to get to their work.
“The third priority is then to get the questions answered. If we agree an inquiry this week then it will be the beginning of the year before that inquiry kicks off. I certainly hope by that time the bridge is open.”
It’s a little surprising Labour don’t have the same set of priorities. Or not.
It’s also a little surprising the Herald is giving better coverage to the FRB than the National. Must be some gremlins batch 3.
Des at 1.38pm
The Rev is way ahead of you.
At the end of EVERY Wings article just above the Facebook & Twitter buttons is a long green button saying Print PDF on it. Use that to get your own pdf & you can print off as many copies as you like.
Superb piece, this is the sort of thing that newspapers used to do and still ought to.
Worthy of the Sunday Times when it was still being edited by Harold Evans.
YES, an enquiry would be most interesting – might make Labour realise it’s attempted manipulations and brayings are futile attempts of smearing the Scottish Government – again!!
Would it not be far better if efforts were concentrated on encouraging a constructive solution to the problem instead of spraying wind and piss on anything SNP!!
Well done Rev!!
It’s probably wishful thinking, but is there any chance of a bridge opening ceremony prior to the official opening in December, 2016? Say, for example, once it is possible for construction staff to walk across.
Ideally, it would be the week before the May elections, with all those who didn’t want to see it built invited as guests of honour (their sins forgiven…. perhaps).
@ Janet says 10.58
I liked this comment Janet. Worth remembering.
@ tombee 11.44
‘ To outrageously demean the only competent governance that Scotland has enjoyed for centuries.’
Well worth repeating everywhere.
@ Katherine Hamilton 12.53
We have all been conned at some point in our lives Katherine. We live, learn and enjoy that we are now more aware than ever before.
See youz yins! If yoov got any mair probelems wi that rancid bunch o’ politishuns and those mad-rocket scribes, jist come tae the Big Man, Big Stu, the only wan that stops these neds in their tracks. But remember, tread carefully! He is the Big Man and it is important that you use paragraph breaks. Ye want tae keep yer napper in wan piece. Remember, the Big Man, Big Stu, Scotland’s real ‘Champion’. (Seriously, thank you Stuart. If we didn’t have you, we’d have to invent you!)
OTish
In exactly a fortnight it will be the anniversary of the Tay Bridge disaster.
While reading up on Patrick Matthew a few years ago, the guy who published the natural selection theory of evolution decades before Darwin a fact which Darwin was forced to acknowledge the primacy of, I found out that he was highly critical of the then proposed Tay Bridge. In particular he claimed that they would be unable to find firm foundations for the proposed brick piers and that the girder construction would be susceptible to high winds.
His predictions came true, they had to use steel lattice piers and within two years the mid section collapsed in high winds, unfortunately as a train was going over it.
Of course Matthew was an elderly gentleman by then so it is perhaps not surprising that his predictions were given the Cassandra treatment.
I am no bridge engineer but I must say the pre collapse photographs I have seen of the bridge did not look sound to me.
In particular the centre section was overpass girdered rather than underpass girdered, presumably to allow the passage of taller shipping. To me that suggests that that section would be subjected to more lateral compressive stress components rather than the more tensile stresses which the under girded sections would see. In other words an increase in buckling forces somewhat akin to box girder designs. However the centre section had no significant overlap with the lower sections nor tension cables to help counteract that compressive element.
The On T message here is that I hope and expect the builders of the new bridge are liaising with the engineers engaged in addressing the current bridges issues and are taking on board whatever learnings they can.
Especially in regard to future loading increases and the possibility of extensive fracking developments under the Forth.
yesindyref2 says:
14 December, 2015 at 2:20 pm
It’s a little surprising Labour don’t have the same set of priorities. Or not.
They do now! After Derek MacKay’s solid performance on BBC Labour this morning (taking the fight to them), followed by Alex Rowley’s car crash interview a short while later, Labour seem to have now back-pedalled and adopted the same order of priorities (1. repair, 2. mitigation, 3. enquiry). The thing is, that’s definitely not what they were implying at the weekend.
Just a point. FETA had enough in Captol reserves to do the work.They chose not to.
That cretin on GMS this morning was particularly evasive and useless. “If they gambled then just say so.” They already have. Good on Gary Robertson for not letting him off with it, but the ill prepared bullsh*t these people spout smacks of the contempt they hold the electorate in.
Also- fix the bridge and get things moving! This is a sideshow. Look into the why when it’s no longer causing the problems. Get the emotion out of it and better decisions are made.
The sign of a good government, Nicola and Derek Mackay,
putting the safety of Scottish citizens and visitors from across the world before party political posturing,
no matter what the hacks and the unionists say and try to stir up, the SNP will make sure that the health and safety of those working on the bridge is paramount,not the speed of completion.
Even with the e-mail right in front of them the BBC still can’t get a simple bloody caption correct;
“The email said only “one or two” abnormal load of more than 150 tonnes crossed the bridge every year”
Errm, no it doesn’t, it actually says;
“We would only expect one or two of these exceptionally heavy loads every few years”
link to bbc.co.uk
I’m sure there will be an inquiry in the New Year once the bridge is reopened – probably by the Transport committee. It will take a matter of weeks not months,and won’t cost a fortune, and it’ll blow all this smearing & obfuscation guff away.
The only reason the Yoons want a public inquiry is to stretch it out past the election, which will allow them to smear & distort unhindered.
We can use this article (with the others the Rev has done) to tick off all the factual points made here, as the committee does its work
I have a question.
Did the abolition of the tolls have the effect of increasing the volume and weight of traffic hourly? As when tolls operated it did have the effect of slowing traffic.
The tolls going might not have had a direct financial implication on maintenance budgets but perhaps indirectly it increased costs by inadvertantly putting additional pressure on the bridge?
@peekay
That BBC article now says: “The email said only “one or two” abnormal load of more than 150 tonnes crossed the bridge every few years “
That was 5 minutes ago as well, 19 mins after your posting, so they must hang on every world posted to WOS. One way of doing their job I guess. They come here for the truth.
Well, Stu, as the French would say: “Chapeau.”
Another great article to save, print and circulate.
The last paragraph is a gem.
Folks, get yourselves into the New Civil Engineer articles: these aren’t obviously ScotNat stuff, so can be shared with your no-voting friends without derision.
You will see that the current bridge problems were not expected. The best is at:
link to newcivilengineer.com
I see a couple of Labour trolls hanging out on STV News’s Facebook page article on the Bridge
Having lost the argument, they resort to abusive remarks
unrelated to the Bridge story
One twat that calls themselves ‘Del Rashid’ and another called ‘Jim Young’
Another couple of Labour idiots have posted copies of the email claiming its proof that the Scottish Government were warned, despite the fact that its addressed to Lesley Hinds!
link to facebook.com
Del Rashid is a Labour activist,and not a very bright one either. Mr Young falls into the same category.
I may be guessing here,but I visit many sites on the internet and it is becoming increasingly obvious that Labour have begun their election campaign pretty early.There are the names of many of the Labour activists I had run ins with prior to the referendum reappearing constantly.
Their job appears to be SNP very bad,Labour history good.
Let’s take them on wherever we find them
@ RUBY 11.55 i know some will say they wont read it
But if its there in front of them even the no voters who are not to interested in politics might think wait a minute i have to cross this bridge and its all over the news
so they might in passing read it
Give them the enquiry they want , give them all the rope they need to hang themselves.
Useless liars and cheats, they throw utter bullshit and hope some sticks and none if it ever does but it will in the less informed casual voters mind. Lets render them umemployed in May. Snp x 2.
Would be interesting to compile a list of major infrastructure projects the SNP has completed in its 8 years control of Scotland than Labour has in its 50+ years.
No contest, I’d imagine.
Unionists do the bare minimum for Scotland that they can get away with. They are intent solely in holding Scotland back, to prevent any economic threat to London. And, naturally, the bigger effect is to keep much of the population impoverished.
We MUST get out of this ‘Union’. It is strangling Scotland.
2 x SNP SE2016
DONT FORGET THE POLL
link to ipso.co.uk
SORRY WRONG LIKE
link to t.co
As we all know, if an official enquiry finds that Labour politicians had been negligent/incompetent, then it won’t be given much light by the corporate media. A grudging “Enquiry, mumble mumble, bridge was ok, Oh look, a squirrel!” is the most we can expect from BBC Labour. That said, it would get the back-Slabbers to quieten down a bit, cos all this noise is getting rather tiresome. So:
“Bring it on!”
Has Ruth’s gang had much to say? I have an image of Ruth waiting to step across the remains of Kezia’s kamikazes who’ve thrown themselves under one bus too many.
As usual the bum, try to blame the Scottish government for doing a good job. This is just a pathetic attempt to hide their dithering attempts to run the country of the Labour party. We will crush them in May! Vote Snp,Snp.
@ Sunniva 3.12
Toll booths cause a lot of damage to structures due to deceleration and acceleration forces from vehicles being transmitted to the substrates/supports. (Action and reaction are equal and opposite – Newton)
You only have to look at the road surface near any well used buss stop or set of traffic lights to see the effects. On bridges it is absolute folly to have stop/start toll booths.
Further to the tram fiasco, it was always known that FRB closure due to wind, accident or defect would involve traffic being diverted to Kincardine. The road between Kincardine and the M90 junction at Rosyth is an absolute disgrace and little better than it was during the 60s Labour controlled Fife have never to my knowledge called to its upgrading to dual carriageway. This is the main reason for the extra diversions for private/light goods vehicles.
It just another part of the chronic under investment in Scotland’s infrastructure.
SNP/SNP in May!
It shows the media for what they truly are when Rev. Campbell can find out all of the facts from his HQ in Bath and yet the people living right over the site itself in Scotland don’t wish to know, or don’t want to pry, or are just unwilling to even give any consent to the facts and would rather misrepresent the facts than print them in order to attack the SNP.
I’m an advocate of the good work the SNP are doing but it must be difficult if the voice they have is practically NONE outside of the national newspaper.
Thank goodness for sites such as this one and social media to spread the word of what’s really going on. If it opens more eyes they can’t ever be closed to the plain lies the Scottish media are pushing on people.
Chic McGregor
Patrick Mathews, married Maggie Duncan of that ilk and inherited gourdiehill, near Dundee, he did write a pamphlet 25 years before Darwin, about the survival of the fittest, (wrt trees) which Darwin acknowledged in the preface to darwins 3rd edition. at which point all of mathews writings were banned from perth and Dundee libraries. he became known as the gourdiehill seer because he claimed the tay bridge was unsafe,(steel not strong enough) it fell a year after mathews died. he also said the bridge should be built further up the tay, making it shorter and cheaper, the money saved could be then spent on alleviating the plight of 50% infant mortality rate in Dundee at the time.
his g. granddaughter errol jones 90 years old (nz)just wrote a family history
I grafted scions from the last pear tree in his once 10,000 tree orchard at gourdiehill last year
I think to get the true facts out there, SNP MSP’S need to be a lot more forceful when they are being interviewed by MSM .When being interviewed by the likes of Gary Robertson or Gordon Brewer they are far too polite !.These journalists rarely let them finish a point, constantly interrupting so that the story comes out without striking a clear line . I have noticed they do not do this with other parties .
OTish but still on transport sort of.
Oil has fallen below $35 per barrel apparently.
Looks like the Saudis want to keep piling on the pressure.
In case anyone has the idea that closing down FETA cost any jobs at all as a result of this ‘privatisation’, here are a couple of local rags with a proximate interest in the Bridge’s welfare putting you straight on that
link to dunfermlinepress.com
“But despite the change the Scottish Government have approved legislation to save 70 jobs by transferring them to the new operating company from 31st May 2015 although its board of local councillors will be disbanded.”
Furthermore, it even adds :
“FETA currently employ 70 staff, though this number is expected to rise to about 90 once the new Queensferry Crossing opens at the end of 2016.”
The Linlithgow Gazette even states that even the pension scheme carried on unchanged.
link to linlithgowgazette.co.uk
So no job losses that I can see there (apart from the poor councillors).
Also remember that the Forth Bridge contract was one of the FOURTH generation of road maintenance contracts handed out since Holyrood began. Guess which parties started them?
A brilliant piece of work, Rev Stu.
Do you lot never feel embarrassed saying closure was nothing to do with SNP when the 2010 cuts make it clear that it was? Let’s get some balance here – Oh I forgot. Balance is not what this blog’s about.
All this penny pinching by Labour and Westminster happened at a time billions of pounds in taxes were flowing from Scottish Oilfields into the exchequer.
It’s high time Scots started to ask the question ‘where did all the money go’ ?
@blackhack says: 14 December, 2015 at 10:58 am:
“It appears that the liebore party are using that old Glasgow alibi…”It wizny me”
Well, blackhack, that legal alibi is Scotland wide and, as stated, is only partly quoted, “The full official version is, “It wizna me – it wiz him anaw – bit he ran awa”.
Someone on the Rev’s twitter feed has produced a cracking timeline.Hope the Rev posts it on here.
Allan: the 2010 cuts make it clear that it was?
They make clear nothing of the sort. Do you never feel embarrassed spreading untruths?
Sometimes to find out the truth you need to research beyond what you know yourself , or what you think you know ,or what you would prefer to be true Mr Allan.
Try it. Most liberating.
What Grouse Beater said.
Mr Allan – you’re being taken for a fool by the Idiot Press and the State Sponsored Broadcaster. Are you so dim to believe their propaganda? Open your eyes, FFS.
O/T
Just a reminder. Orkney 4 needs your support-whatever you can spare.At £194,422 now & aiming for £208k so need £13,558
link to indiegogo.com
neil allan says:
14 December, 2015 at 4:59 pm
Do you lot never feel embarrassed saying closure was nothing to do with SNP when the 2010 cuts make it clear that it was? Let’s get some balance here – Oh I forgot. Balance is not what this blog’s about.
70+ years of SLabour right to reign over us, why can’t SNP clean up all the shite left behind, in one term of Holyrood office, with all fiscal policy dictated by red/blue toryboy Westminster, etc
Actually Neil, the saddest red/blue tory unionist attack is university and deprivation in Scotland. Its not so much that its repellent watching red/blue toryboys weeping crocodile tears for the poor, its the fact that YOU lot caused the whole farce in the first place, Scottish poverty, unemployment, slave wage economy, shit housing, middle class domination of Scottish higher education, all of its down to seven decades at least of a red/blue tory freak show in your Scotland region.
SO come back in a decade or so neil.
An inquiry would be great if we could trust it (dont know how it works at all)
but if its anything like the carmichael case and the numoures law breaking during purda whats to say someone in the inquiry does not favour the unionists
also it will cost money and if it found 99 things labour did whong and one thing the snp might have done better the results will only be twisted
The SNP have proved to be a good government.
That is why their membership is now way over 100,000.
That is why they swept the board at Westminster elections.That is why they will sweep the board at the Holyrood elections.
People just like me make an informed decision to vote for them. As a former Labour only voter for over 40 years I see the error of my ways.
I foolishly believed there was nothing better. There was ,and so I now vote SNP.
My only regret is that I did not do it sooner.
Oh, and Mr Allan, open your mind too. Unless, of course, you are quite content to remain willfully ignorant of what the Idiot Press (aka British Unionist Media) and the State Sponsored Brtoadcaster are doing to you.
It rather seems to me that you are the type who, if presented with a clear admission by David Cameron, written in tripilacte and signed in blood, that he is deliberately devising policies to shaft Scotland, you would find a way to deny it, to pretend to yourself it is not happening, taht your beloved Westminster would never do such a thing.
So, if you are merely here to ignore every single fact presented to you (see article at the head of this blog article) then perhaps your time would be much more constructively spent getting back to the kitchen, having your cereal and ironing your sabernat butcher’s apron. Mind and take it off first.
@SC
It was in an appendix of a book on Arboriculture.
The book was published in Edinburgh and London in the January of the same year Darwin was to leave in the November on his Beagle voyage. If you were a biologist leaving on a trip expected to take many years I think you would be inclined to buy every new book of a biological nature you could take with you, especially one in which the main topic was identifying the best timbers for naval useage.
It was also serialised in a horticultural magazine which Darwin is likely to have taken. In those days, horticultural magazines were much more akin to serious scientific journals than the populist, light modern versions are.
Also, natural selection/survival of the fittest was a quite well established theory in Scotland long before Matthew or before Darwin came up to Edinburgh to do his degree.
The earliest known articulation of the basic concept was by the eccentric Lord Monboddo nearly a hundred years prior to the OOS.
Darwin’s own grandfather, Erasmus, mentioned Monboddo in his own writings.
Darwin befriended many Scottish illuminati like Hutton and Lyle while in Scotland.
Yet he always maintained he knew nothing of this when he came to his own theory. In fact he went further, claiming he learned nothing at all while in Scotland, despite the records of Edinburgh University Library showing he used it more than any other contemporary student.
One of Darwin’s own biographers suggested that this knowledge must surely have at least sunk into his subconscious even if he had forgotten this in the ensuing decades.
Also, Darwin, in the first version of OOS still allowed for the possibility of Lamarckism, a popular evolutionary theory still at that time, which Matthew discounted.
Furthermore, in subsequent correspondence Darwin made it clear he did not follow Matthew’s point about near extinction events or other means of greatly curtailing the population of a species, being a precursor to significant rates of evolution.
But then his lecturers in Scotland did more or less note that he was not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
@Peter McCulloch says: 14 December, 2015 at 11:43 am:
“To be fair to the planners, they couldn’t foresee the increased weight of HGV vehicles that would also be using the bridge as due Beeching butchering the railways and freight moving from rail and onto the roads.”
Oh! Come on! Of course they could. Here’s facts about Edinburgh.
They had one of the best public transport systems in the World way back in the 1950/60s. They had a extensive tram system, a bus system covering areas without trams. Also an inner and outer circle train service.
This ran in both directions so if you missed the one going the short way round you could hop on the one going the long way round it was often quicker than waiting for the short journey.
There was only one obvious lack in the city infrastructure. They had an inner and outer circular traffic route and ample east/west through roads but very little by way of north/south links in the central areas.
So why did they do away with both the old trams and inner and outer suburban rail service? To highlight the lack of thinking back then let me point out the quite obvious way things were going. No one but the very rich could afford much more than a motorbike and sidecar and the city fathers were rattling up housing, including prefabs, all over the city yet no one had the foresight to leave space in those housing schemes for family cars. Yet almost every family I knew then had ambitions to own a car. In 1959 a Mini could be bought for just under £500.
My tuppence, for what its worth: I have just been reading comments on Facebook about the bridge, one of which was the usual ‘SNP Baaaad!’ stuff. I replied to that person, asking for his source of info WHILE providing a reference for mine – mine being this article. I fervently hope that that was okay, Rev.
And that is how I am going to play it from now on. Instead of just saying “Sorry no, it isn’t the SNP that did it”, as I usually do because I’m usually in a hurry to get on with other chores, EVERY TIME I come across an ‘SNP BAD’ comment, I am going to take time to reply politely, but giving a ‘WoS’ link to THE TRUTH and asking if the comment poster can trump it. Instead of just a quick comment, I want everyone to know what is REALLY going on and I want folks to see the MSM for the government propagandists that they really are. Its very difficult for unionists/tories/slab supporters to ignore the truth or ‘naysay’ it if the source of the information is there to back up what I say.
The last comment I put up (in reply to the poster saying the maintenance budget was cut by 50% by the SNP!) was: “The Budget wasn’t cut – there was always sufficient monies for any maintenance. But If you have a source link to support your comment, I’d love to see it because my source says there was money for it. The Labour party persistently refused to consider building another bridge to help ease the pressure on the FRB and indeed suggested that it was a ‘vanity project’. In fact Sarah Boyack herself said (and I quote from her tweet, “Will he (Colin Fox) join me in condemning the suggestion from David Davidson that a new bridge should be built at the expence of the tram routes in Edinburgh? That is an outrageous suggestion”. You will find the WHOLE HISTORY of this bridge issue, with references, sources and links at:” and provided a link to this article.
Just in case any person in Facebookland might actually want REAL figures, the TRUTH and not labour spin, I will make sure they know where to find it. Okay… might not be a leaflet push that will reach the older folks not on the internet, but its going to be my wee bit… and who knows, might filter through from grandchild with t’internet ‘on tap’, to Granny and Grandpa??
@liz says: 14 December, 2015 at 11:49 am:
“What I am finding when using articles from WoS, they are instantly dismissed as – why would you believe that so and so.”
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever in answering them, Liz.
Just reply by bouncing the ball right back into their court with, “Then you’ll have no problem whatsoever to counter his claims with facts and backed with references of your own”.
Then step back one pace – make a sweeping gesture with your hand and say, “The floor is now yours”.
The tactic is called, “Calling their bluff”, and it is infallible for anyone armed with facts and references.
Err wasn’t the budget cut because they took it early in advance payments. You can’t take the funds earlier than planned & still expect the same funding in subsequent years. They would be reduced to offset early payment.
@tarisgal 5:55pm
Well said. Your “tuppence” is worth its weight in gold.
Thanks for this Stu,
You are a legend.
I looked at the National cover this morning,
a missed opportunity to rip the Red Tories a new one.
No more National.(sad to say)
@Robert Peffers – nice one.
Will give that a go next time.
Lollysum @ 6.07
It does look like there was not much of a cut when you look at Audit Scotland’s reports on FETA’s accounts – see my post above.
When FETA needed more money they could draw down from the next year’s grant and hold on to any underspend and put it into their reserves. They seemed to do this on a fairly regular basis but the sums were not huge, £1-2 million or so each year. The cut in the grant seems to have been covered by the reserves which fell between 2012 – 14 by around 4 million because they were being used to cover any shortfall in the grant.
They had to prioritise some work but not much detail in the accounts.
News B.B.C. Scotland News just now still at it re “Who’s to Blame”. What an organisation!! I will ask them what do you want “another Slab enquiry”. Don”t hold your Breath!!
Half a story from Reporting Scotland again tonight (Monday). They begin their description of the timeline with “So how have we come to the point where this bridge was closed? In 2010 a major programme of repairs was cancelled…”
No mention of any of the delays & postponements in the Labour era.
Why am I not surprised?
Thanks Legerwood for that answer. Meant to check it yesterday then forgot.
BBC Scotland news is a disgrace pointing out all the unionists points but none of the SNP points and the snp MP got cut off in mid sentance
Rev. Stuart,
Would The National be willing to run with your information to put out on mainstream media?
Kind regards,
Ian
I don’t read unionist papers anymore and I avoid unionist TV news programs, which saves on a lot of anger & frustration.
The bigger the lie, the bigger the unionists’ fears. So that bodes well for May ’16 local/Holyrood elections. SNP/SNP
I applaud the Rev for doing what I can no longer bear to do and then calling the lying bastardos out for each & every lie day in, day out. I don’t know how he does it.
OT; My ‘justice’ badge arrived today along with free sweeties. Yay! Free sweeties!
Chic McGregor
@SC
It was in an appendix of a book on Arboriculture.
correct, although Lamarckism is making somewhat of a comeback
thing is chic, the Scottish cringe has buried the knowledge of our own history, I came across Mathews accidentally.
the britnats are too busy putting up statues to wellington and nelson
Jackie “Jabba the Hut” Baillie would be better of going back to Greggs for more pies after her dismal performance this morning. Also that Rowley guy sounds like an utter moron. You could hear him gulping away before answering – the sure sign of a liar. Plenty of that sort of Unionist around just now !
Yes Giffnock posted a tweet this morningish and since it was a slow day, John and I came up with this.
//youtu.be/nJ_yIhKpDyM
I see the National is going up 10p tomorrow and increasing in size with more features.
Willie Rennie says:
That’s all very good and well, but is the First Minister and the Scottish Government gonnae give us a guarantee that in the future time she will make a prediction that will ensure that the Liberal Democrats get credit for saying that we objected to anything that was not good and for the benefit of the people of Scotland
I think that’s what the people want to have answers to, and the First Minister should respond to that at least,
These are questions that have to be answered
and there’s no toilet roll in the gents again, and that’s important
Once the Bridge is repaired, SNP Government should announce an inquiry to get to the truth about the Labour Party failures that have led to the position where the FRB has had to close. To report at the end of April 2016 🙂
So the National is going up by 10p tomorrow – after today’s ‘Bridge’ article, I’m afraid they can keep my copies. I’m out, as they say!
Supported it since it started, but that really depressed me today. We are obviously on our own once again, but at least we no longer have to pretend that we have any ‘friends’ in the newspaper world!
Perhaps, after all, it is just a means of getting us to cross subsidise the Herald – no thanks.
Clutching at straws. That just shows the desperate straits that the Labour party in Scotland currently find themselves.
The media too are desperate, it shows. I guess Wings Over Scotland has tipped many over the edge. Well done Rev 🙂
Chic McGregor says:
“In exactly a fortnight it will be the anniversary of the Tay Bridge disaster.”
Don’t know if you know this Chic, but believe it or not McGonagal also predicted that the Tay Rail bridge would fall, in his poem about the ‘Silvery Tay’ but the publishers at the time found the verse too morbid so asked him to take it out, which he did.
Just a thought, but, does anyone else think that perhaps Labour knew they would be put in the frame when the facts began to seep out about the bridge, so decided to pre-empt this with their own attack on the SNP?
They could then call for a public enquiry, making sure that the full facts were kicked into the long grass until after next Mays elections!
They are in a bad enough state as it is, without the true story of how Labour yet again let Scotland down, so they would do just about anything to stop the true facts coming out.
Hmmm, anyone else think this is possible?
@Sassenach
Not entirely on our own, we still have iScot magazine. Buy a subscription for a loved one this Xmas or even treat yourself 🙂
link to iscot.scot
Latest from Yew Choob-Forth Road bridge is Falling Down 🙂
link to youtube.com
Sky News – “Nicola Sturgeon wants an agreement on her terms or she’ll veto the lot”.
What a bunch of effing morons at Sky News.
Hey you bunch of reprobates – Nicola Sturgeon is merely seeking what YOU LOT PROMISED. Remember? She is seeking an agreement that will not be to the people of Scotland’s detriment (or, indeed, those of the UK), as per Smith. She is seeking an agreement that BOTH parties can agree to. The clue is in the word ‘agreement’.
Effing eejits.
Patrick R,
..yes.
For FAQs sake! How will the Unionists ever think they can control all facets of information output to the plebs when you present them with this stuff…?!
And that Stuart numbnut is really, really, really, really, really irritating…
Rev whit huv you been dain in ma absence.
Ma NORTON security hiz WoS doon as a suspicious Web page.
One thing which everyone on both sides of this political assessment should be fully aware of is that giving engineering advice is, at best, a considered gut reaction based on calculation/risk and, at worst, a pure lottery based on theoretical models you know are wrong, but hope aren’t too wrong.
The only absolute is that the calculations will at best give a ball park figure, but real behaviour of real structures doesn’t follow theoretical models…..and that’s just the number crunching…then you have to throw in the whole real world materials behaviour as well…and we haven’t even got to any effects of constructional issues.
If I was guessing what actually has happened with my engineer’s hat on, I’d say that an out of balance loading has induced a lateral kick into the end of the truss on the bottom boom, possibly with additional wind forces and this has pushed out and potentially rotated the bottom boom on the far side of the bridge which has transferred at least part of the loading normally shared over the pair of drops into the single drop bar on the inside of the hanger. This will have thrown in a bit of bending for good measure causing this drop to crack at the neck of the pin. The crack itself looks like it may have suffered some laminar tearing.
This scenario ties in with the fact that the bridge has cracked on one drop, and at the bottom of the drop at a time when the bridge is actually been more loaded on the North carriageway rather than the South direction.
Traffic tail backs have been due to the admiralty junction works and the traffic was nose to tail on both lanes for the full length of the bridge. This is the first and only time I have ever seen the bridge this loaded.
It would also explain why the engineers may record the cause as currently unknown because all their normal load cases wouldn’t likely have this scenario as one they would initially be looking at.
they will get to the bottom of what caused it.
FAO Rev….I was a member of FETA since 2007 and happy to supply the facts behind the story.
Hiya Ian what brings you here?
nice to see you anyway.
dont be a stranger.
Krishnan Guru-Murthy went after Sturgeon for the bridge closure o on C4 news just there but its pretty weak stuff really. Sturgeon swats that aside
Rancid The Graun trolls their Scotland region again
link to archive.is
Slightly further to right of rancid Graun, Daily Heil says
Beaming First Minister Nicola Sturgeon looks thrilled to be outside Number 10 as Cameron pushes SNP to support new powers for spies
Also this in Heil, they’re historic perverts and so far right they make Trump look like the Dalai Lama, but this is funny, a bit like UKOK hackdom trying to knock out SNP Scots.gov
link to youtube.com
I got my badge and sweeties this morning. Like a wee dug wi’ twae tails.
A very good article.. and no need for an expensive enquiry, as a couple of dozen emails and documents just about sums it up.
We DO, though, need an enquiry into decades of neglected infrastructure, even during an underspend..
My hunch at the truth, would be that a bunch of Lab n Lib n Ind councillors just couldn’t be arsed. Because? they would have to feed into consultation processes and transport committees etc..while all the time the Labour Party in Scotland was only interested in appeasing their branch managers
Councillors and civil servants colluded with their parliamentary colleagues about public realm and infrastructure spending as being adequate.
For Labour (in Scotland) their lack of imagination haunts them to this day.
And it’s not something they can buy or outside source, as they have soiled their very reason to exist…and clearly don’t know how to contact-exist politically.
A wretched hive of scum and villainy..
..and ‘some of the people’ have only JUST STARTED to notice.
Excellent,uncontestable article again Stuart.
Speaking to an of Old Labour diehard from Lancashire today at work and he was simply thankful the engineers spotted the faults in time.
He openly loathes SNP,all things Scottish,as well as Scousers and Yorkshiremen,so is never shy in having a pop at any opportunity.Lovely guy by the way 🙂
His opinion alone leads me to think the MSM and Slab are embarrassing themselves with this nonsensical diversionary witch hunt.
Thanks for the badge Stuart.Can’t do the sweets as I’m in lot of pain with a botched root canal treatment- next instalment tomorrow 🙁
Neil Allan@4.59
Meethinks you are suffering from a severe case of FUDolytis.
Give up before you start to get a craving for IrnBru, and talking endless,
fundlymundly shi*e.
I’d forgotten about the perk until the badge and fizzers arrived today. Thank you Rev.
Heedtracker
Bay City Rollers???
eh… something you want to share with us Heedie?
@ heedtracker
Supercat, swatting away the papertigers more like!
Excellent journalism. Facts pure and simple. As a bridge engineer it confirms what I’d heard elsewhere.
If I were a Scot, this would be my new favourite news outlet.
@ Ian Chisholm 8.07
sounds interesting. Stu may not read your post so best to send an email. Contact tab at top.
He may be your Cooncilor, John, but you must have noticed that Chisholm says … and says and says. We’d never get him off again if you make him welcome 😀
Capella says:
14 December, 2015 at 8:49 pm
@ heedtracker
Its just hammer of the Scots Severin Carrell, giving the finger.
Capella says:
14 December, 2015 at 8:49 pm
@ heedtracker
You probably have to be a cat person:D
The cat’s the UKOK meeja, the tiger’s SNP Scotland.
Ian Chisholm says:
FAO Rev….I was a member of FETA since 2007 and happy to supply the facts behind the story.
bravo ian, but there will be an enquiry, by all means email the rev, but keep yer poweder dry
mair power tae yer elbow mon ami
@Sassenach 7.48
One stupid article does not a Newspaper break
Blog on their site your complaint (as I have done) link to thenational.scot
They don’t censor posts
Have you never made a stupid mistake?
Neil Allan 4.59pm
You’re way behind the curve.You really need to move with the times.Grasp the future.Ditch the idea we should be governed by Old Etonians.
I see Andrew Nicols from the “Scottish” Sun is blaming the SNP for the bridge. A sarcastic cartoon showing the cables having a knot tied to keep it from falling apart, and an equally sarcastic comment about Irn Bru being worth 5 times more than an equal amount of oil. Wtf do we do about this. I don’t buy papers, I actually read it in tescos for free. I always found him more sympathetic than bobbing Leckie, a YES man, then a NO man, finally a YES man, and now a sarcastic git.
We really have our work cut out folks. As an aside to Iain and Dorothy, I will not use sweary language again. I can see where you are coming from about soft no’s reading this. But I’m not the only one to swear. Mind you, I assume you think I’m a Unionist plant, don’t you?
Stephen.
P.S. Just got my Party Christmas Card from Nicola. Sitting barefoot with a pair of blue jeans, brown belt, white blouse and on a white background with what I’m assuming is kids palm prints in an array of colours with their names underneath. Sent to every Unionist I assume? I’ll not hold my breath for even an acknowledgement. A number of folk have been bullied off here lately. Shame. United we stand, divided we fall.
Hi heedtracker.
You typed,
“The cat’s the UKOK meeja, the tiger’s SNP Scotland.”
I thought SNP Scotland was this?
With this article, The Rev Stu has rendered an official enquiry unnecessary – let’s just point all curious red and blue tories in this direction for some meaningful bedtime reading.
Bugsbunny
” A number of folk have been bullied off here lately.”
Namely?
Subsequently, here is the petition; link to change.org
I thought SNP Scotland was this?
Who pays the piper calls the £7-8-9 billion costs of
link to telegraph.co.uk
link to designboom.com
So their shortlist is out, and we’ll have to listen to the UKOK/BBC goon show jumping up and down over the new Forth Bridge cost, for years, kind of why the hell did anyone vote NO?
Westminster upgrade’s a giant contract but this is fun from Foster
‘we are delighted to have been shortlisted for the refurbishment of the palace of westminster,’ commented foster + partners. ‘the building is an exceptional work of living heritage, a symbol for the united kingdom, and a continuing symbol of democracy throughout the world. the opportunity of turning the magnificent 19th century architecture into a functioning 21st century parliament building within a UNESCO heritage site is one of the most exciting challenges in britain today. we look forward to the next stage of the process.’
a continuing symbol of democracy throughout the world?
Destroyed so much of the world more like
link to twitter.com
and Lady Mone of Mayfair, Sir Fanny Alexander, on and and on it goes…
Wasn’t there an old guy who said he was 71, who was bullied by other about not giving their real names. I think his name was Blair Paterson? I’m not stirring the shit, and I know I shouldn’t have went off on one about George Foulkes like I did. As I said before the reason I hate this man was that he laughed at his sidekicks description of a young Down Syndrome boy, as a “Mongol”, away back in 1992 whilst I was out and about canvassing for the SNP.
As someone who was in the Red Cross at the time, helping out young adults with Down Syndrome, I lost it and I really hit the roof with Foulkes over this. That’s why I seen red when I read his remarks. I thoroughly detest the swine.
I apologise over this yet again, yet I am accused by Iain and Dorothy Devine about being a Unionist Plant. They are yet to reply to me. Again I shouldn’t have sworn like I did. Been over 28 years with the SNP and chapped many doors. In future I’ll not comment. Only read.
Stephen.
Dont stop posting Stephen just do as others suggest and remember (we all should do that) that unconvinced yessers could be reading.
Please keep commenting Stephen I appreciate your usually well-thought out comments.
I’ll do as you suggest, but minus the swearing. What I would do if I ever again come across Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, I don’t know? Probably tell him to “Foulke” off. I suppose he’s no more and no less than a well off old jakie? A waste of time and money. He wasted tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money in Parliament in Edinburgh asking useless questions at £100 a time, whilst Jabba the Hut and others screamed like demented banshees, including £300 about Alex Salmond being photographed with three youngsters on Space Hoppers, (it was about a Healthy Kids Project).
What a twat.
Stephen.
P.S. No more swearies from me.
link to pressandjournal.co.uk
Thanks jdman and Paula Rose. I know I go off on one at times, but when I come across bigots and fools like Foulkes I cannot keep me mouth shut. Maybe I should however take a deep breath before I write. They say, just like driving a car, you shouldn’t do Twitter or any Social Media when you’re either angry or drunk. And I don’t even drink, not even today on my birthday. Another 1 hour and 35 minutes left and only 2 years, as my friend keeps reminding me, to SAGA Insurance, lol.
Ok, thanks folks. I’ll watch my language in future.
Stephen.
UKOK/BBC bridge monstering take it down at all?
link to twitter.com
UK Elections ?@Election_UK 3h3 hours ago
Our forecast for #sp16 shows SNP will win 67 constituencies. In 2nd, the Conservatives on 5, with Labour on 0 seats.
Labour on 0 seats!
No wonder future lord Jim Eggs Murphy’s still backpacking round South America.
Meanwhile, in a democracy haha far far away
Lord Ashcroft ?@LordAshcroft Dec 12
ComRes National Poll CON 40% LAB 29% UKIP 16% LDEM 7% GRNS 3%
Poor old JC. The farce goes on, to Red Ken
Red Ken admits he would take a peerage from Corbyn ‘if Jeremy wanted me to’ despite years of campaigning to scrap the House of Lords
Ken Livingstone could be given seat in the Lords and at Labour’s top table
He said: ‘If Jeremy wanted me to do anything like that, I would do it’.
Say neo fascist’s of the Heil. Ken clearly wants to change minds from the inside
heedtracker.
I’m assuming you’re talking about constituencies? I’m surprised the Tories are going to hang onto 5 constituency seats, they won 6 last time, (plus 9 list seats). I wonder what one they will lose if this is true? I hope they lose Ayr.
I meet a few YES campaigners complaining about Ayr MSP John Scott threatening them from challenging his views on Scottish Independence. I was in Prestwick Sainsbury’s when a wife and husband came in and I overheard them telling the wee lassie at the meat counter about his (Scott’s) threats, and John Scott threatening Yessers with the Police about harassment. He said his face fell when the husband informed him that he had just retired from the force himself and if he didn’t believe him to call his ex boss and golfing friend Inspector Ireland. What a twat. i hope he’s the one to lose it. But if he lost Ayr to Chic Brodie, he might still be there swapping Ayr for the South of Scotland Region with Chic.
Stephen.
@Davosa says: 14 December, 2015 at 7:23 pm:
” … Also that Rowley guy sounds like an utter moron. …”
You probably do not realise just how close to the truth you are, Davosa. I literally did, “ken his faither”, and when Alex was a schoolboy he was a fairly regular visitor.
My late wife was a trained nurse who had to give up nursing after they found out she was a TB carrier. Such people couldn’t suffer the disease themselves so were immune but thus couldn’t be immunised to kill the disease.
She was the favourite first port of call for the village kids with all sorts of knocks, scrapes, bumps and cuts. She not only patched them up but knew when a GP, or visit to A&E, were the order of the Day.
O/T can someone help me out with the horrendous Blair McD who is arguing that extracting oil from the Nrth Sea is costing us money.
He is using this as an iScot would be bankrupt, black hole etc.
link to twitter.com
bugsbunny says:
14 December, 2015 at 10:42 pm
heedtracker
The future nation statehood of Scotland has opened up a whole new realm of political interaction and produced some enormous dickheasds. You can never tell who’s YES or NO either. I know a few Tory YESers and SLab Noers, all completely unexpected.
Its probably going to take another two elections to clear out unionism from Scotland though. Bit like a blocked colon.
@Liz
Ask him about the Tax and N.I taken from North sea workers and the support workers all over the UK.
It would cost a lot more money in benefits if these workers were all laid off.
@ bugsbunny
Jen Dunn is the candidate in Ayr; Chic is only standing for the list, and is not very highly-placed. He’ll get in if the people above him win their constituencies.
Re Foulkes – not long after I moved into his constituency 25 years ago, I had a letter published in the Ayrshire Post, in which rag he had a weekly column. He devoted several paragraphs of his next opus to a very personal attack on me (barely mentioning the letter which had triggered his outburst), even though we had only met once when I attended his surgery (he was reasonably helpful on that occasion).
I was quite upset – it had not occurred to me that an MP would lay into a member of the public like that. Now, of course, I’m bolder and would tell him where to stuff it, but I was a lot less confident then.
So I share your loathing.
liz says:
14 December, 2015 at 10:48 pm
O/T can someone help me out with the horrendous Blair McD who is arguing that extracting oil from the Nrth Sea is costing us money.
If not Scots oil and gas industry was worthless, they’d give up control of it all back to Scotland. Think that’s ever going to UKOK happen?
Can’t believe the BBC get away with such blatant lies. Had the misfortune to catch reporting Scotland and then Scotland 2015 where the interviewer grilled the SNP guy having him on the defensive but let the other two just speak without constant interruptions.
The lib dems woman just attacked the SNP and made such little sense in what she was saying it left me shaking my head.
Not that I watch the pish on the Ebc but was at neighbours watching program on puffers and vital spark , scotland 2015 came on and some dick said the Corbyns election to Labour leader was the most momentus event in politics this century. !!!
Liz,
They are getting desperate and will repeat any old lie hoping people will get suckered in. Less and less people are falling for these old tricks, and as the old folk tale says, the little boy who cries wolf in the end won’t be believed when he eventually say’s something that isn’t a lie for once. Effectively that is Blair McDougall in a nutshell. A wee lying toerag that lives in a world of his own.
However that suggests this is his view only? Maybe, I’m more kind than I should be? Maybe this is a co-ordinated attack on our Democracy by the state within the state? We all know the three characters for that? Two letters and a number.
Joseph Goebbels said: “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of it’s powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State”.
He’s talking about the price of extracting oil from the North Sea. He’s been extracting the Urine about Scotland for a long time now. And the price? Our Freedom.
Maybe he and Jackie Bailey can open a New Greggs in Helensburgh after she gets her P45 in May?
Stephen.
Ask David Torrance:
He should have his own show as he’s an expert on everything,
Including what’s in the First Ministers mind
What a royal Arshole of a Twat that boy is
With apologies to Arseholes everywhere
Note to STV: Get somebody credible or just make it up, it would be no different to what comes out of that Buffoons mouth
I won’t even start on 2015 Jeeez!!
Was at a branch meeting of SNP tonight where our MP was able to be present for the first time since being elected.
He updated us on what is going on behind the scenes and it is all good.
One thing he did mention is that he had been to 2 pensioners’ meetings recently and was met with total support which surprised him. Both groups seem to be watching parliament t.v. and don’t like what they see. They are particularly scathing about the House of Lords.
Things are moving behind the scenes in our favour.
Vote SNP x 2 in May.
@liz says: 14 December, 2015 at 10:48 pm:
“O/T can someone help me out with the horrendous Blair McD who is arguing that extracting oil from the Nrth Sea is costing us money.”
I’m not about to read anything Blair McD says or writes, Liz but it may help if you know the truth is that not a single brass farthing of North Sea oil & gas revenues comes to Scotland. It is classed by the UK Treasury as all coming from what they describe as, “Extra-Regio-Territory”. That is they claim that the revenues come from no specific land region.
The only funding Scotland gets is the Scottish Block Grant and that is based upon the per-capita funding that England gets directly from the United Kingdom Ministries and all English funding is from the United Kingdom Ministries with some exceptions, (and thus they are all actually fiddles).
For example, while all English Infrastructure should come from DEFRA, Westminster deems certain infrastructure is of benefit to the entire United Kingdom and funds it from other sources but only either London or England benefits but we all pay for it.
Such as The National Galleries, National Opera, National Museums and so on but also the Olympics Stadium and the Chunnel, Heathrow, The London Cross-Rail, HS Railways and, believe it or not, the new London Sewerage System. All of which are funded from other sources such as Government reserves that we all pay for.
The three devolved administrations get the basic per capita sum but the Barnett Formula works out the estimated value of the functions England gets from the Ministries for the devolved functions. That is they devolved the function from the UK Ministries and thus must also devolve the funds to pay for them.
Which is the explanation for the English claims the Scots get extra per capita funding. We don’t, it is the difference in value, on a per capita basis, that the English get direct from the UK ministries.
So it is utter blethers that a fall in the price of a barrel of oil is a Black Hole for Scotland. The only one that sees a reduction inn their income is the UK treasury.
Scotland does suffer a loss but it is in jobs in the oil service industries for most rig workers are not Scottish residents.
I hope that helps.
Lollysmum at 1.09
I reckon for around £300,000 you could produce an eight page tabloid newspaper and post it into every home in Scotland
The tragedy of Scotland has become almost unbearable. Endowed with such beauty and then wealth, only to become a plaything of the English before a second career as a cash cow. Not without Scottish acquiescence.
Too gullible, too naive, before becoming too poor, too weak and too unbelievably stupid to do anything about it. Two million residents voted to castrate Scotland, for further service to England as a eunuch. Once a eunuch always a eunuch. That’s democracy for you.
Sometimes history is too big to overcome.
Personal melancholy, supported by Burgundy. I trust it will pass. National frustration, fuelled by state propaganda. I trust it will pass. For Scotlands sake.
#liz
Mr McDougall should read this
link to offshorepost.com
Liz
Oil is indeed at an unsustainable level right now with Brent Crude being sub $40 a barrel.
However this is a Worldwide unsustainable level where the marginal cost of producing oil is on average between $50 and $60.
What that means is that at some point sooner or later, even allowing for political machinations of all kinds, it WILL rise to at least $60 a barrel.
This will eventually be corrected either be by pre-emptive common sense or in the worst case by closure of, often irreversibly, of existing production capacity enforced by commercial unsustainability.
How long before that correction occurs is the real question.
It works like this.
The price of oil at any moment in time is largely driven by current demand versus current availability. At the moment there is a glut, there is more oil than there is demand, all the reserve tanks are full and even tankers are being used as storage facilities.
This situation can easily occur because oil is one commodity where the supply can still be influenced simply by how much key producers are willing to open the taps.
But that is not a sustainable scenario. Political/Commercial Strategy inclination must at some point give way to the reality that in the longer term oil is a diminishing resource.
How long? is the question.
The recent fall of the socialist government in Venezuela may delay that correction.
Venezuela has the World’s largest proven reserves of oil (Saudi Arabia is second) but under the Chavistas the production levels were low, a situation which may now change with the governing regime resulting in a longer to correction period.
But be in no doubt, the value must at some point rise.
Regarding Scotland, the best way to look at it is if the current pricing does result in reduced extraction rates from the North Sea, it is money in the bank for future generations of Scots. Meanwhile, as the Rev has pointed out, reduced oil price leads to other GDP advantages.
In many ways it could maximise Scotland’s ultimate benefit from the North Sea.
@ Cadogan Enright @ 9:09pm
I totally agree with your comments about the National Cadogan and can’t understand why anyone would decide to stop buying it because they’re unhappy with one article.
A key issue of constant discussion on here relates to the CorpMedia propaganda machine and the fact that not one daily newspaper in the UK supported (supports) Scottish Independence: hate us with a vengeance in fact. We have ONE daily newspaper now but it would seem that some Independence supporters would be happy to see it go. I just don’t get it! No doubt newspapers such as the Daily Liar et al would love to see it go down the stank too, would be rubbing their hands with glee, and I for one don’t want to give them the satisfaction of seeing this happen.
As you say if individuals aren’t happy with particular articles complain directly to them. Additionally they could email their views for publication on the comments page.
A number of extremely well informed individuals currently contribute to the newspaper and I would love to see Stu’s work being included in the near future, if this is something that he’d be prepared to do. We really need this newspaper so please folks reconsider and continue to support it.
Cadogan Enright at 9.09
Thank you. It would be funny if it wasn’t so daft.
We’ve got the whole press against us. Woe. Woe
But we’ve got one wee paper supporting independence. Hurray!
But I don’t like one article in it today,though the rest of it was excellent.
So I’ll just stab my eyes out.
I have already complained to the editor about that cut and paste job this morning but there is no way I’ll stop buying a courageous effort on a shoestring to give us a paper because some junior reporter I’ve never heard of wrote some shite today.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
Exactly.
I also wrote to them (not as a letter for publication; I reckoned that people like you would have done that) and told them it was not good enough, but that I would continue to support them as I have been doing since the first issue.
Posters:- I note you are still using the word “LIE” in your posts. The word is “CARMICHAEL”.
Incidentally, got Email from ISPO regarding my complaint to the outright CARMICHAELS printed in the Mail on Sunday stating that they were looking onto the matter.
Come on, the rest of you fellow posters, get your complaint sent. Inundate them.
@ bugsbunny
If you click over to the next post you will find plenty scope for criticism of your enemy, Lord Foulkes.
Mind the language – slightly! You speak for us all.
@Petra I am continuing to support them but my recent subscription renewal was for 3 months rather than the 6 months previously.
Much as we want to support a more balanced press we must also be alert to the invidious nature of the unionist cabal and their modus operandi. Attempts at clandestine subversion of anything they perceive as a threat to the British State or indeed anything which might increase the rate of its decline must be expected and however undesired, acted upon accordingly.
Hopefully, this is not the case for the National, however the loss of their editor was a ‘jury out’ flag for me.
Tut Tut
Strange how the Rev missed this!
link to tartanjack.com
“FETA (Forth Estuary Transport Authority) approached Transport Scotland for additional funding in 2012.
The plea was rejected by the SNP government, forcing the authority to defer projects with a “higher risk score,” according to documents shared with Tartan Jack.
The “Truss End Linkage Strengthening Work” was among the projects the authority feared having to defer.”
I’m sure a real journalist would have never missed out something like this!
Aye Stuart .. Right wee yoonyinist tube …. if you check out his twatter feed..
Fud!!
@Stuart
And perhaps you missed this?
“It is expected that FETA’s reserves will be utilised to meet planned capital funding shortfalls over the next three years. However, risks exist around future bridge strengthening and improvement works yet to be determined.”
link to audit-scotland.gov.uk
It was quite clear that FETA had money held in reserve to carry out the works, and this has been mentioned many times in this article and the comments section. If you can provide one sensible reason as to why the Scottish Government should provide an endless supply of money to any given organisation, then please do so.
And before you start spouting more rubbish about the “leaked” document, the data it contained was used in the preparation of FETA’s Audit Scotland report, so that defeats your “lack of funding” argument.
However, in your anger that the work wasn’t carried out due to a perceived lack of funding, you do appear to advocating that the bridge should have been shut sometime between 2013 and now, for a much longer period, and at an even greater cost to the taxpayer.
Your undying devotion to the rancid union will undoubtedly be applauded by some, but from now on you should be referred to as Union Jacksie, or simply Arse.
Stuart says:
15 December, 2015 at 2:23 am
Tut Tut
Strange how the Rev missed this!
You’re letting yourself down badly by farting out stuff like the below. it sounds great to unionist red tories but who exactly is the your anonymous “one FETA member” Stu?
“In response to this rejection, FETA was forced to make much deeper cuts than originally planned. One FETA member said that Colford was deeply concerned around this time, fearing the bridge could not be properly maintained at current spending levels.”
Also Stuart what does your links “non committed schemes” actually mean?
The Upgrading of the Main Cable Acoustic Monitoring Project, Improvements to the Suspended Span Underdeck Gantries, Truss End Linkages Strengthening Work, Improvements to the Suspended Span Underdeck Access System
Is bridge closure like this really going to bring SLabour back to UKOK greatness in your Scotland region Stuart?
You are worth your weight in gold at times. Wonderfully written and well presented argument to counter all the hysterical malice being spewed out in recent days.
Re oil – thanks for all the replies.
BMcD is odious, he seems to take great delight in Scotland failing, that is not normal.
Stuart @ 2.23 am
Talking of ‘strange’ do you not find it strange that the minutes of the FETA meetings for the whole of 2012 are missing from the Edinburgh Council web site?
There is a gap from the minutes of June 2011 to the minutes of June 2013. Odd don’t you think?
“When the SNP came to power at Holyrood in 2007, within months they’d conducted a study and announced that a new bridge would be built”
Actually, the Labour administration approved the construction of the new crossing in February 2007.
An easily verifiable fact, readily checked on google, or indeed the new forth crossings wikipedia page.
“Actually, the Labour administration approved the construction of the new crossing in February 2007.
An easily verifiable fact, readily checked on google, or indeed the new forth crossings wikipedia page.”
The Forth Replacement Crossing Study didn’t publish its final report until June 2007, after the SNP came to power. It was the SNP’s decision to implement its recommendations.
link to transportscotland.gov.uk
@ Chic at 1:37pm
I was disappointed too when I heard that Editor, Richard Walker, had left however I’ve read that he’s still involved with The National as a consultant.
@ Stuart, you wouldn’t know a truss-end from a bell-end. On second thoughts!
“liz says: 14 December, 2015 at 11:49 am
Excellent work which will now be used to rebut the frothing unionists.
What I am finding when using articles from WoS, they are instantly dismissed as – why would you believe that so and so.
They are using insults against the Rev to try to reject the evidence given.
Also any inquiry would be ‘focussed’ on what ever SLAB wanted to prove and therefore to be avoided unless it is a full open inquiry starting from when the bridge was built”
# For once a Nationalist has asked a good question!
“What I am finding when using articles from WoS, they are instantly dismissed as – why would you believe that so and so.”
———————————————————–
Well as a Unionist let me attempt an answer for you Liz.
Why would I believe a ‘Reverend’ who cannot even tell us the date he was ‘Ordained’?
So here is a multiple choice question for the Wangers….
Was it?
a) The Early 1990’s?
b) 2000?
or
c) 2002?
Why in addition would I give credibility to someone who has to award himself a spurious title, to give himself some kind of credibility?
Even if that were not so the Rev’s writing are a special kind of ‘whattaboutery’ and selective use of the evidence that he and wangers rail about, when it comes to the MSM (allegedly)
As someone else wrote on Dr Scott Arthurs blog, this is why we do not take the ‘Rev’ seriously.
link to drscottthinks.wordpress.com
Peter Shaw (@PCSoblahdeehell)
Wings, Wings, Wings
“What a big heap of pish”, “thicky”, “champ”, “fuckwitted stupidity”.
I’ve seen you elsewhere defiantly defend your habit of swaggering, sneering bullyboy language against those who take issue with you: beating your chest and bellowing like an after-hours back alley scrapper (safely ensconced in a warmed computer room), that you will let nobody take away your freedom to indulge yourself in colourful expression.
Because – so you suggest – you have a right to be enraged. And you desperately need to impress upon your readers the mighty scorn your less boorish opponents have deserved.
But your pathetic, constant attempts to blow away, belittle and/or ridicule in the eyes of readers anyone who questions your dubious contentions, your faulty methods, actually show YOU up.
You, who never give an inch – except to claim an opponent has agreed with you.
They display the feebleness of your positions & fabrications (I can’t dignify them with the term “arguments”) – and demonstrate the fact that your approaches are anything but big, or clever.
You are clearly depending on devotees so obsessed with The One Great Cause that they are prepared to disable & surrender all critical faculties, bow down, and take your word for it.
How much longer do you think that will last?
And here, additionally, you keep trying to blackmail your opponent with rumbling threats of legal action. That’s even bigger, even cleverer.
You can run (from blog to blog, kicking down the door, shouting and roaring, insulting, sneering and compounding your fabrications), but you can’t hide the fact that you present yourself as a shameless bluffer, a cynical casuist, and, in the process, an increasingly unpleasant individual.”
———————————————————–
I for one await the Rev’s threatened legal action for defamation against Dr Scott Arthur with interest, why you all ask?
Simply because ‘Wings and the Rev’ will offer a target rich environment for a QC when the ‘Rev’ is under cross examination.
Will he then be forced to tell us the date he was ‘Ordained’? And then have to try and reconcile the three dates he has given out for this?
Because we unionists are all waiting, and then there will be the embarrassment caused to the SNP by the ‘Rev’s more lurid, insults and contentions about things like Hillsborough.
I’m guessing that the ‘Rev’ will back off, once it sinks in that he might have some very awkward questions to answer in the full glare of the media.
Does that answer it for you Liz?
Stuart,
Congratulations on receiving your degree at the University of FUDology.
As for Stu, I think there is NO chance of him “Backing Off”.
I think sir, you seem to have this misconception that the readers of this site are somewhat brainwashed robots, who have no grasp on reality.
When in reality, I would say we have a very open view on what is actually happening in Scotland.
It may seem we will defend anything that is anti SNP, that could not be further from the truth, it just so happens that as far as a media internet source, WoS is one of the few places where you can get an honest, detailed analysis of what is actually happening.
If you care not to source the links Stu provides, it is easy to see you are most definitely a FUD.
Anyone else think that Alex Salmond should be the one who cuts the ribbon on the new bridge ?
I would sign any petition for sure.
He deserves the credit for giving the go-ahead as soon as the SNP were elected – despite the usual opposition calling it a waste of money. We aren’t hearing that anymore.
The Queen has already opened the new Southern General and the Borders railway. It’s about time someone else had the honour – especially the guy who actually had it built in the first place.
Of course, they aren’t actually interested in the bridge, per se …
link to moflomojo.blogspot.com
SNP on the case even sooner than you say:
My Transport Statement to Parliament 27 June 2007 (under 6 weeks in office):
“.. this major project that will deliver benefits not just for the people of Fife but for the economy of Scotland.”
and
“…2016 is the best and earliest opportunity to deliver…”
[…] endlessly browbeaten on how the SNP’s “failures” on education, the NHS, and the Forth Road Bridge “prove” we couldn’t have managed independence, even as we see the UK government […]
thank you – very clear and helpful
A brilliant and precise article, full proof journalism at a professional level, which is hard to find in other msm outlets in that Country called Scotland.
Adding insult to injury Radio 4 are doing a programme on the new bridge introduce and presented by Gordy Broon sickening! This will be presented as a labour achievement in some way I bet. Plus I agree Crowdfunding TV ads and Yhe Rev not just as SPAD to the FM but as FM
The flip side of trying to take the credit for something that someone else did is of course their denial that anything that they did actually do, but which rapidly turned into a snafu, was actually done by them. Light touch financial regulation, PFI’s, North Sea oil, most privatisations …….
So they keep quiet about their actual track record and try to steal the credit for things that others have done. Deceit and denial. It should be westminster’s motto.
Excellent stuff from the Rev. Dugdale’s britnat hypocrisy there for all to see – if they want. Britnat media stench-merchants continue to spew out puke-inducing guff. Sickening.
Websites like WOS are the genuine journalism of Scotland.
Excellent stuff from the Rev.
Dugdale’s britnat hypocrisy there for all to see – if they want. Britnat media stench-merchants continue to spew out puke-inducing guff. Sickening.
Websites like WOS are the genuine journalism of Scotland.
Bridge tolls were also in place until the SNP abolished them.
See, the SNP have done some good work.
Now, regarding Scottish sovereignty and independence, that’s other projects that need some good work too.
@bugsbunny
Being called a Unionist plant or troll is par for the course on WoS. It just takes one to start then others repeat the same tripe.
A great wee reminder of just how bad the media are in this country.
The way the reporting of the old road bridge needing repaired Back in 2015 was disgraceful.
As usual only Wing’s told the story…and backed it up.
Well done again Rev.
For every bridge there is a troll. (It’s a rule of fairy stories.)
Don’t feed it. (Like yesterday, on and on and on.) The resulting effluent is very bad for the environment.
Any thoughts on unionist plants sabotaging the bridge and blaming the SG for shoddy workmanship??
Remember the English public school approach so aptly outlined by Churchill in his speach
It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength we will never surrender
They will never surrender Scotland willingly and any attack on the independence movement it in order
Thank you for such excellent research.
The Labour Party in Scotland are a reflection of political delusion and paranoia. They are a miserable bunch of politically useless folk. Politics is an art form which can transform people’s lives. Labour in Scotland have had no knowledge of this for many many years.