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Wings Over Scotland


In chronological order

Posted on October 08, 2015 by

We hate to be picky, but aren’t these the wrong way round?

November 2014: “The Vow has been delivered, ahead of schedule.”

vow1

That’s past tense, right?

February 2015: “The Vow is being delivered.”

vow5

(Present tense.)

February 2015: “We will deliver The Vow, and more.”

vow4

(Future tense.)

May 2015: “We will deliver The Vow.”

vow2

(Conditional future tense.)

October 2015: “The Vow is not being delivered.”

vow3

Coming soon: “There was never any Vow.”

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    1. 08 10 15 22:43

      In chronological order | Speymouth

    2. 21 03 17 17:27

      Full of Sound and Fury, Signifying Nothing | A Wilderness of Peace

    144 to “In chronological order”

    1. Paula Rose says:

      PMSL ROFL LOL

    2. Robert Peffers says:

      Ach! Rev Stu.
      You know, and I know, and the guy down at the chip shop that thinks he’s Elvis knows. They will never deliver the VOW they made and they know we all know that they know that.

      Or something like that.

    3. Auld Rock says:

      But somebody authorised the printing of ‘THE VOW’ and we all knew it was meaningless garbage just like Hume’s promise in 1979.

      Auld Rock

    4. Sinky says:

      Strange that the BBC didnt cover GBs comments

    5. Lesley-Anne says:

      Gawd I wish there were MORE emoticons I could do on here other than just 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

      The Labour party … the party that keeps on giving! 😀

      No matter what anyone else says, in my view, the Labour party are COMEDY value for money! 😀

    6. Craig MachAonghais says:

      Jeez…you couldn’t make it up! Wait a minute, we don’t need to! We have Labour to do that for us. What a bunch of duplicitous bastards!

    7. Jimbo says:

      What Vow?

    8. Itchybiscuit says:

      SLAB: ‘We firmly believe that the Scottish electorate are complete morons who will listen raptly every single time we open our mendacious maws’.

    9. ClanDonald says:

      Who’s this Gordon Brown chap? Does he work for the SNP?

    10. mogabee says:

      Vow smow!

      SLabour’s all over the shop on this aren’t they?

      They can’t just ignore it because it was splashed larger than life on a “once major” newspaper and seen by the public.

      But even the non-political voter must have cottoned on by now.

      It’s rather wonderful watching this farce play out!

    11. David McDowell says:

      Repeat after me: “How now, Brown Vow?”

    12. yesindyref2 says:

      Gordon Brown: who listens to me anyway?

    13. Grey Dug says:

      Even someone as delusional as Gordon Brown must realise that he’s been had. The big patsy has been played like a violin. No chance of him recovering any credibility as this late stage.

    14. Calum Craig says:

      “Has been” present perfect tense…

    15. sinky says:

      BBC National News now repeating the Wright stuff and Michelle Thomson hatchet job

    16. galamcennalath says:

      So, when do we get the official annulment of the IndyRef1 result?

    17. scunner says:

      The Michelle Thomson story finally makes it onto the “big” BBC news. The Wrights still girning about being “conned”.

    18. mealer says:

      Yep.Labour are all over the place on this and many other things.Take Trident,for instance.

    19. Lesley-Anne says:

      scunner says:
      8 October, 2015 at 10:25 pm

      The Michelle Thomson story finally makes it onto the “big” BBC news. The Wrights still girning about being “conned”.

      Well what do you know?

      The branch office of the Biased Brainwashing Consortium has FAILED to convince the electorate, in the country with no name, of S.N.P. BAAAD!

      Now we have the *ahem* BIG boys stepping in to show Plantation Quay how the smear tactic SHOULD be done! 😀

    20. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

      Are these folk actually working against Labour? It’s the only logical explanation 😉

    21. Lesley-Anne says:

      mealer says:
      8 October, 2015 at 10:30 pm

      Yep.Labour are all over the place on this and many other things.Take Trident,for instance.

      I’d rather NOT if you don’t mind Mealer. 😀

    22. heedtracker says:

      Good old Crash. But for real The Vow fraud enlightenment, I like sit at the knee of Professor Smirky of Slovenia,

      https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/full-fiscal-detriment/

      “The Scottish Government likes to remind us that, shortly before the referendum, Gordon Brown said that a No vote would deliver “home rule” or something as close to federalism as was possible in the UK.

      As a matter of fact, in his book published in the summer of 2014 Mr Brown had said that what was on offer from the pro-UK parties was “close to the idea of home rule” but not home rule “in the strictest sense” and, certainly, was no “federal solution”. But never mind.”

      Its all here.

    23. One_Scot says:

      Can you imagine what it feels like living in a country where your national teams football matches are not shown on TV, but other countries are. How humiliating must that feel.

      Oh, I don’t need to imagine, I just need to wake up every day and feel it for real.

    24. Michael McCabe says:

      The Vow has been delivered. What you blinked. Well you missed it. Now move along. Nothing to see hear. Coming soon to a Constituency near You. Indy ref 2 WHO http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=htz9CS-Zmms

    25. dakk says:

      Re that final tweet.What does Gordon Brown care whether the Vow is being delivered or not ?

      I mean,please.

    26. Bob Mack says:

      I think the advisors are actually working against Labour.
      They need Corbyn to fail to reintroduce” sanity “to their Party. We all know they are doing a hatchet job on him,and given that they cannot take him on in public so to speak,the next best thing is to curtail his tenure in office by making the whole thing farcical——-which it is.

      This is part of the process of Jeremys’ eviction. Disorganised, divisive, get rid.

    27. Bob Mack says:

      No David please!!!

      It’s a VOW — not a SOW.

      Och well.Same result anyway.

    28. HandandShrimp says:

      To be fair the first one was Jackie Baillie and she just talks absolute nonsense.

    29. ross says:

      Ive just had a discussion with the half owner (supposedly) of a scottish bar in barcelona tell me that in his view ( a guy with an economics degree none the less)that scotland should never be independant as the oil indistry is better in the hands of westminster than in scottish hands.
      Hes lived in nine countries, he told me smugly, none of them scotland.
      Fanny

    30. Sinky says:

      Question Ttime farce “remember we are in Leicester so dont discuss Scottish matters in front of English audience

    31. Bob Mack says:

      @Ross,

      Let’s hope he gets to live in many more countries——none of them Scotland

    32. Cadogan Enright says:

      I presume Thompsons lawyers will have to add the poor gullible Wrights to the long list of papers who get sued when this is all over.

      The Cor(p)upt Meeja know this but lead the poor Devils on anyway

      Meanwhile the female nutter who replaced Snow on newsnight was haranguing NATO officials and demanding to know why they were not invading Russia given that Russia had created Syria Ukraine and was obviously intent on invading the Baltic countries

      Got a bunch of talking heads that would have made Fox News proud into studio, and they all discussed the latest press statements from the Pentagon as if they were the only possible source of truth without one questioning voice.

      I’d prefer the unbiased voice of Fox News any day.

    33. msean says:

      The vow will never be delivered. Never.Just like yes voters thought. Those who made the vow are quite happy to stand back and let the Scots argue about whether it has or hasn’t been delivered for ever and a day,hoping for some kind of political meltdown in defeat.

      One year on and the only effin senior leadership figure remaining in their pre indyref position is Mr Cameron. All those bettertogether best pals were played like suckers,thats what happens when you trust a tory. We tried to tell them last yearbut…

    34. Les wilson says:

      Cameron said the SNP could not point to anything that will not be delivered. I would like them to Publicly point the failures to him. Very publicly, please.

    35. Capella says:

      Yes Stu, your grasp of grammar is very good. These tenses are changing faster than the rise of the SNP in the polls.

      One glimmer of light from the Tory Conference is the despicable smearing of Jeremy Corbyn. :

      “We cannot let that man inflict his security-threatening, terrorist-sympathising, Britain-hating ideology on the country we love,” he finished to loud applause.” (David Cameron’s speech)
      https://archive.is/tmSfb

      Even anti-establishment luminaries like Owen Jones must be shocked at the full on rhetoric being deployed today. Perhaps the light will dawn that the Establishment is conducting a vicious propaganda war against every perceived threat, including the SNP.

    36. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Yes Sinky, I saw that. But it was David Dimbleby himself who brought up Scotland in his baiting of Stewart Hosie, then slapped him down when he answered the question, for having the temerity to speak about Scotland when they were in Leicestershire!

      God, these ignorant metropolitan media buffoons make my blood boil. Dimbleby is one of the worst. Pompous, ignorant twat.

    37. sinky says:

      Quinie Funny the same criteria doesnt apply when QT is from Scotland. Britannis waives the rules as usuall

    38. Capella says:

      @ Quinie frae Angus
      Dimbleby is another luminary of the Bullingdon Club. Unfortunately the youtube video which describes their appalling behaviour and features Boris’ sister Rachel, is jammed. Can’t imagine why.

      https://archive.is/rGrd5

    39. liz says:

      Dimbleby is ex Bullingdon club – explains it all.

      Imagine having to be interviewed for a job instead of being shoed in?

    40. heedtracker says:

      A handy list of what the Vow isn’t but what they said it was last November, from Graun.

      Here are the key points set out by the Smith commission, which was charged with taking forward the devolution commitments on further powers for the Scottish parliament.

      • The Scottish parliament will have complete power to set income tax rates and bands.

      • Holyrood will receive a proportion of the VAT raised in Scotland, amounting to the first 10 percentage points of the standard rate (ie with the current standard VAT rate of 20%, Scotland will 50% of the receipts), but cannot influence the UK’s overall UK rate.

      • It will have increased borrowing powers, to be agreed with the UK government, to support capital investment and ensure budgetary stability.

      • UK legislation will state that the Scottish parliament and Scottish government are permanent institutions. The parliament will also be given powers over how it is elected and run.

      • Holyrood will have power to extend the vote to 16- and 17-year-olds, allowing them to vote in the 2016 Scottish parliamentary election.

      • It will have control over a number of benefits including disability living allowance, the personal independence payment, winter fuel payments and the housing elements of universal credit, including the under-occupancy charge (bedroom tax).

      • The Scottish parliament will also have new powers to make discretionary payments in any area of welfare without the need to obtain prior permission from department for work and pensions.

      • It will have all powers of support for unemployed people through employment programmes, mainly delivered at present through the Work Programme.

      • It will have control over air passenger duty charged on people flying from Scottish airports.

      • Responsibility for the management of the crown estate’s economic assets in Scotland, including the crown estates’s seabed and mineral and fishing rights, and the revenue generated from these assets, will be transferred to the Scottish parliament.

      • The licensing of onshore oil and gas extraction underlying Scotland will be devolved to the Scottish parliament.

      • The Scottish government will have power to allow public sector operators to bid for rail franchises funded and specified by Scottish ministers.

      • The block grant from the UK government to Scotland will continue to be determined via the operation of the Barnett formula. New rules to define how it will be adjusted at the point when powers are transferred and thereafter will be agreed by the Scottish and UK governments and put in place prior to the powers coming into force. These rules will ensure that neither the Scottish nor UK governments will lose or gain financially from the act of transferring a power.

      • MPs representing constituencies across the whole of the UK will continue to decide the UK’s budget, including income tax.

      • The Scottish and UK governments will draw up and agree a memorandum of understanding to ensure that devolution is not detrimental to UK-wide critical national infrastructure in relation to matters such as defence and security, oil and gas and energy.

      This article was amended on 28 November 2014 to clarify the line about VAT. The earlier version said “Holyrood will control the first 10% of revenue raised from VAT”.

      Hosie just got a BBC slap on wrist from whatisface Dimbelby over Fluffie Mundell’s UK.gov Sec of state veto on all of it, none of which they are actually giving their Scotland region anyway. Nice to have though, that UKOK veto, on nothing much.

    41. Paula Rose says:

      O/T just as matter of interest – do boys actually put their little dangly bits anywhere they’re told to?

    42. HandandShrimp says:

      Dimbleby has set a precedent for the next time QT is in Scotland. No discussing English politics.

    43. Nana Smith says:

      I’m confused, is this the sequel. The Vow man cometh. Cometh the vow cometh the man. What?

      I think at least there should be a ‘thumping fist’ greatest hits or misses for Christmas. Not forgetting the support act of the three degrees of misery, Curran, Lamont and Sarwar [who I hear is planning a comeback]

    44. Ruby says:

      Lesley-Anne says:
      8 October, 2015 at 10:12 pm

      Gawd I wish there were MORE emoticons I could do on here other than just 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

      ???? ????????

      ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????

      Just checkin”

    45. caz-m says:

      Sinky,

      The only thing Dimbleby needs Scotland for is sailing his wee boat round the islands.

      After all, one doesn’t want to sail ones wee boat in foreign waters, does one?

      Rule Britannia!

    46. John Hamill says:

      How dare you accuse Jackie Baillie of fibbing.

    47. Kenny says:

      ross says: “Ive just had a discussion with the half owner (supposedly) of a scottish bar in barcelona tell me that in his view ( a guy with an economics degree none the less)that scotland should never be independant as the oil indistry is better in the hands of westminster than in scottish hands”

      Rather a brave view to have in Barcelona. I wonder if he shares such economic wisdom with his Catalan customers? Perhaps he thinks Gaudi’s creations are better operated by Madrid?

      I can just imagine his “Scottish bar” with lots of tacky tartan, lion rampants and maybe even a stuffed haggis. And did he start his sentence with “I’m a proud Scot, but…” ?

    48. mealer says:

      Liz 11.33pm
      Then Dimbleby is a sicko.

    49. msean says:

      Remember that the vow was deliberately vague so that anything pointed out can be denied. Labour leaders knew that.They had the lesser proposals for the Smith commission (devo nano) the tories beat them in that as well,even if only because they never had any intention of delivering.

    50. Les wilson says:

      I have asked before but no one answered.
      Where is Smith in all this? What does he think of this?

      Is he content to be a stooge?
      Is he happy to see how his country is being shafted?

      Come on Mr Smith, come on, tell us!.

    51. Post Truth Politics,

      Promise the electorate anything,

      because a good 40% are fricken mugs and actually trust their politicians and media.

    52. Grouse Beater says:

      “The Vow is now being delivered”

      Aye, but the postman got the wrong address and, in keeping with Royal Mail policy, refuses to make a second delivery. He left a card requesting us to collect the package from No 10 Downing Street, London. Aye, that’ll be right!

    53. Graeme Doig says:

      Nana

      It depends. If you’re talking about Cameron rather than Brown it must be “Cometh the sow, cometh the man“.

      I would get my jaikit but I’m not getting out of bed.

    54. msean says:

      Anyway,its been over a year since the independence referendum,our dear leaders probably think we will all forget about it soon. Aye,right,not going to happen.

    55. Nana Smith says:

      @Graeme Doig

      Night night Graeme. Hope you don’t have nightmares!

    56. ross says:

      @kenny
      No honestly kenny its a great bar. Im not sure if im going back though. I wasnt even that angry with the result, it was just his arrogance.

    57. scotsbob says:

      On the plus side I have just noticed that the Carmichael crowdfunding appeal has gone over the £100,000 mark this evening.

      A tremendous achievement.

    58. North Chiel says:

      I/T However former Labour home sec. Jackie Smith having a
      dig at Scotland not qualifying for the Euro football finals
      while in her own words “England , Wales and Northern Ireland
      would be in European finals ( RUK ).
      Possibly the result may be reversed in political terms in
      a year or two then Jackie ???

    59. Vambomarbeleye says:

      Paula Rose
      They sometimes also put them where they are told not to. It really can be a troublesome wee thing.

    60. Lollysmum says:

      O/T
      Bothersall was up to his tricks tonight bigging up Ian Murray saying he was the one leading on improving on Scotland Bill on Twitter when he posted this & I couldn’t resist replying:
      https://twitter.com/LollysMum1/status/652219110286340096

      As he said it was nonsense I sent him this:
      https://twitter.com/Tighnacoille/status/652223194389184512

      He then went on to say that wasn’t what the parties voted on at all. Stuck in my memory is road signs & partial income tax. Correct me if I’m wrong please someone.

      Fact is that it’s clear they are really panicking now-attacking from all directions but all with one aim of discrediting SNP.

      Anyone taking bets on the outcome of all this nonsense? MT lies being transferred to England BBC news means that they aren’t gaining traction in Scotland-problem is that MP’s in England have been accused of far worse things & nobody gives a toss because they know they can’t change how things are in WM/Lords etc.

      I had a meeting today with our boro’s Director of Social Services & was discussing the future or rather lack of it for disabled & their carers. The council has to find another £5m cuts from social care before April 16 on top of the swingeing cuts already made-we were both angry about that & then he said you’re in SNP aren’t you? I agreed that I was & he went on to say that he wishes that Nicola was a national politician who could govern for the whole of UK. “That’s the sort of govt I’d like where people do matter”.

      You could’ve knocked me down with a feather 🙂 I was fair gobsmacked so then I said you could always join me in London Branch SNP. Step too far at that point but I’m now resolved to work on him 😉

    61. Graeme Doig says:

      Nana

      All my nightmares are during day in this UKOKland region 🙁

      Night night

    62. Dr Jim says:

      It’s like an episode of Friends

      “The one with all the powers”

      In other news:

      ITV big news says Scotland is slaughtering poor wee seals that are munching into our Billion pound a year Salmon exports and the customers won’t be happy about that will they says the big news

      Come anywhere near our Salmon ITV news folk and we’d shoot you in the head too (or maybe you’d rather eat seal) either way there’s thooosands o them (seals that is) and they don’t eat the Salmon they just fcuking kill them

      Why don’t you tell me why stupid supermarkets like Morrisons in my fcuking country sell Trout from Yorkshire
      or Haddock from fckuing Grimsby or wait for it some sort of Canal fish from the Norfolk Fcuking Broads (I only went in for fags and thought I’d have a look) what a shit of a Supermarket Morrisons is, I felt grimy

      It’s no wonder Aldi’s is booming it sells Scottish produce and we like it, it’s good

    63. Dr Jim says:

      @Lollysmum

      Respeckt

    64. Cadogan Enright says:

      Radio 4 News at 12 pm ran the whole Kezzia FM ministers questions diatribe including the false quotes

      SNP are apparently in trouble and under pressure on the issue

      I have already made my complaint to the BBC tonight on another issue if some one else wants to try

    65. Capella says:

      @ Lollysmum
      A Result!
      The lack of any credible opposition to the Tories in England must be now sinking in. Jeremy Corbyn is being trashed in the Corporate Media. Keep calm and carry on!

    66. Kenny says:

      The problem is that the BBC likes to pretend the SNP doesn’t exist at Westminster, so no one will have heard of MT anyway… And I can imagine most punters saying, well, it is not quite on the same scale as a “duck house”…

    67. DerekM says:

      i wish those damn onions would make up their minds are we or are we not part of the UK and if we are why is a Tory fanny like Dimbleby saying Scottish questions are not relevant to his poxy show because it is in Leicester,last i looked Leicester was part of the UK,and if Scotland is not relevant then why was Stu invited on the show

      Arrogant prick of a man its time the SNP told the BBC,ITV and all the rest to fuck off,and stop going on their establishment love ins with their fixed audiences and questions.

    68. ArtyHetty says:

      Lollys mum@12.20am

      Wasn’t quite sure if you were speaking about a London borough, but wherever, to have to cut essential services to the disabed and their carers is really worrying, because any support is crucial for carers to manage, day in day out.

      We are not hearing enough about what is happening to these services South of the border. I suspect it is not good and set to get worse, scary indeed.

      New Scottish government strategy re carers has just been set up, lets hope we have the funds to keep the services and support that are in place at least.

      Porky’s lot are immoral to say the least.

    69. ArtyHetty says:

      Heedtracker@10.47pm

      Notesfromnorthbritain, what a load of utter pish that is, can it be archived in future, or not linked at all! Second time I have innocently clicked on that link to be faced with idiots writing tosh about Scotland, grrrrrr.

      Night all.

    70. donald anderson says:

      Even IF they deliver the so caked “Vow” it is so lite as to be worthless anyway.

      Mundell and the other Tories keep prattling on about taxing us twice. but still subsidising London and the South East.

    71. Angra Mainyu says:

      The Vow reminds me of a couch I ordered. It was a terrific white leather affair. The sales guy confidently told me to expect delivery in two weeks, so I did.

      When it didn’t arrive I called him up and asked him where the hell my new couch was… by this stage it was a week late and I had dumped my old couch — “you told me i would have my couch in two weeks, so where is it?”

      The sales guy patiently listened to my complaint and clarified the situation: “No, we didn’t say you would have the couch in two weeks, we told you to expect delivery in two weeks…”

      He was right, of course. And, in keeping with the flavour of the agreement, I did expect delivery in two weeks. After thinking about it all for a day or two I decided to cancel the order.

    72. Macart says:

      ‘We made the vow, we will deliver the vow’

      Nice of Ed to have Labour claim sole ownership in that tweet, but now thanks to Mr Pike’s book we know the who, the why and the how.

      Baillie, Murphy, Milliband and Brown. We now have Gordon claiming the Tories have betrayed Scotland.

      We know.

      We also know that for Tory read Conlablib. The Scottish electorate were betrayed by ALL of the establishment parties, their system of politics and their sense of self preservation. The clunking fist was merely the front man, the salesman and fully aware of the crime he was committing against the democratic process and his own electorate. His hope was for a Labour victory in May where Labour could have more easily managed damage limitation and spin securing Mr Brown’s now tattered legacy and toxic reputation.

      So yes Labour and especially Mr Brown, I’d say a great many people are fully aware of who their betrayers are and don’t think we’ll forget either. May 2015 was just the beginning of people taking their government back.

      What Labour did and what they and the Conservatives are continuing to do to their own electorate in Scotland now is beyond unforgivable. Brown knows what is coming next, hence his attempt to shift his and Labour’s fair share of the responsibility. But we won’t forget and for those parliamentarians who took part? I’d not hold my breath waiting for any forgiveness were I in their shoes. They certainly don’t deserve any.

      For those who were used by this now fully exposed sham of a campaign strategy? You can do something about it and you can reverse the result. There are plenty of folk waiting for your help to do that very thing.

    73. potter says:

      @Dr Jim
      http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/586495/Seal-shooting-marksman-Crovie-Sea-Shepherd
      The shooting of seals has become an international embarressment for Scotland given there are proven non lethal methods of protection
      http://www.lofitech.no/en/seal-scarer.html
      If you feel this is an image an Independant Scotland should send to the rest of the world your no friend of Scotlands.
      http://www.seashepherd.org.uk/news-and-commentary/news/scottish-seal-defence-campaign-update-14th-august-2014.html
      Threatening to shoot folk in the head are you serious?

    74. K1 says:

      potter’s express link archived. (filthy rag articles are placed in protective archive bubbles…so’s we don’t keep feeding the filthy rag’s revenues) 😉

    75. john king says:

      Handandshrimp says
      “To be fair the first one was Jackie Baillie and she just talks absolute nonsense.”

      Didn’t she say there are 11 million people employed at Faslane?

    76. john king says:

      Bob Mack says
      “Let’s hope he gets to live in many more countries——none of them Scotland”

      Saudi Arabia’s nice this time of year I hear, he should set up a Scottish bar there. 🙂
      _________________________________________________________
      Grouse Beater says
      “The Vow is now being delivered”

      Eh…I asked for well done…
      this pig is still squealing,
      take it back and bring me another one

      AND DONT CALL ME DAVE!
      _________________________________________________________
      North Chiel says
      “I/T However former Labour home sec. Jackie Smith having a
      dig at Scotland not qualifying for the Euro football finals
      while in her own words “England , Wales and Northern Ireland
      would be in European finals ( RUK ).”

      Eh… anybody know who’s in and who’s out of the Rugby? 😉
      _____________________________________________________
      grrr
      BBC news
      “Nornirn qualify
      while Scotland are OUT”
      last tiem they said anything about it they said Scotland’s group is wide open
      what is it BEEB out or in cant be both and if it is not OUT why then did you lie?
      ______________________________________________________

    77. john king says:

      06.30am”We’re sorry but we’re not able to bring you reporting Scotland due to (technical)problems at this time”

      Oh really?
      btw anybody seen Catriona Shearer recently?

    78. john king says:

      Out it is then
      I’ll eh…just get ma strip an I’ll be off then 🙁

      Bloody ROI have they not read the script, small independent countries having the bloody cheek to beat Germany?
      who the hell do they think they are eh?

    79. john king says:

      Who is this pro out EU campaigner?
      trying to ally fears that leaving the EU would NOT result in a “tarriff war” because “they export more to us than we do to them”,
      If they went down that road, “they would lose”
      way to go little Englander

    80. scotspine says:

      @ potter.

      Re your reference to shooting seals at Gardenstown and Crovie and there being non lethal ways of deterring them.

      There are no doubt less lethal ways of deterring seals from approaching Salmon farm cages in sheltered West coast “fjords” in Scotland.

      However, the fish being harvested at Crovie are wild fish which are caught in unattended nets in rough East Coast waters. The seals are able to swim in and pull the caught Salmon from the nets, damage the nets and will take random bites out of many fish, thus spoiling the catch and causing financial harm to the fishery.

      I can’t see what non lethal methods can be used to deter seals from causing the damage they do in rough, rocky coastal waters.

      I grew up in Gardenstown, and there has always been a Salmon fishery there.

      I have also been in Gardenstown when Sea Shepherd have been present.

      I’m not sure you would like 20 or 30 folk from the South of England hanging about your streets in a tight menacing group wearing balaclavas to hide their identities and intimidating folk going about their lawful business and causing damage to their tools and equipment.

      The only reason this issue is high profile and projecting an image you disapprove of is because of the interference of demonstrators alien to the area. No-one outside of Gardenstown and Crovie would otherwise be aware.

    81. Angra Mainyu says:

      Scotspine, how would you advise a well-meaning seal to acquire food if not by eating that which nature has provided? Even if Tesco served seals, they have no credit cards or cash.

    82. scotspine says:

      Oh, and Potter, I had to laugh when I read your link to the Sea Shepherd site.

      They are quite happy to intimidate small groups of workers by turning up in numbers wearing black masks, filming, obstructing and shouting abuse, but not so comfortable when being filmed themselves.

      An article by an alien pressure group and an article from the Daily Express using emotive terms such as “Gunman” and “in cold blood”?

      The local activists referred to in your reports by the way are folk from England who have settled in Gardenstown. As is always the way, they impose their values on the locals to try and turn the place into some kind of Disney land.

      My Mum returned to Gardenstown recently and walked along the seafront (its a really small place) past her Mum and Dad’s old house where she grew up and I spent much of my childhood. She was glowered at suspiciously and challenged by several of these incomers as if she had no right to be there.

      I’d love to tell you what you can do with your outrage, but am too polite to express it publicly.

    83. scotspine says:

      Angra, by doing what they normally do.

    84. Tackety Beets says:

      I’m slightly amused , GMS today reporting that ” Corbyn realises Labour in free fall as they campaigned with the Tories in BT last year”

      So Corbyn thinks Labour lying , twisting the truth etc etc has had no effect ?

      Sounds like the branch office has not been very ” honest John” with MR Corbyn .

      It is still hard to understand what SLab tactic ,if any, actually is.

      I just watched yesterday’s FMQs , it really is worth the watch . At the very end Murdo Fraser & WM Tories get a slap in the coupon, quickly followed by John Swinney receiving a jestful skelp from Particia Marwick . Entertainment of the highest order.

      Keep up the good work Rev.

    85. Capella says:

      O/T Richard Arkless pursuing legal status of Cameron’s bomb Syria policy, in spite of Commons vote against.

      British govt refuses to disclose legal advice for Syria drone strike killings https://www.rt.com/uk/318031-drone-strike-syria-legal/

      BTW for a bizarre dramatisation of a British PM authorising a drone execution, see C4 drama “Secret State”. Can be watched on C4s catch-up viewer. You have to register but it’s free.

    86. George Dale says:

      Sorry, Rev, but it’s NOT the past tense, it is in fact The Present Perfect. Please leave such mistakes to the BBC.

    87. Harry McAye says:

      O/T Haven’t read the whole of this thread so apologies if this has already been suggested, really belongs on the previous moral maze one but I didn’t want it getting lost.

      For those of you on twitter, there is an excellent meme going around of Kezia Dugdale’s quotes from yesterday and the actual quote from MT’s company’s website, as Stu and the alert reader made us aware of. I have tweeted this to @NicolaSturgeon, @GlennBBC (Glenn Campbell) and @theSNP. Nicola genuinely seemed unaware of the true quotes during FMQs yesterday, and I was dismayed to hear her say to Campbell that she regrets being in this position, giving the Ten O’clock news the necessary ammo to run that piece last night, with Dugdale’s lies included.

      We must ramp up the pressure on this, I would also suggest @BBCNews, @ScotNational. If fifty of us do it they will find it hard to ignore.

    88. Tinto Chiel says:

      Today’s National has Labour “dying on their feet” at 21%, three points lower than last May.

      Now I understand the term “Vowtastic”.

    89. Robert Peffers says:

      @mealer says: 8 October, 2015 at 11:49 pm:

      ” … Then Dimbleby is a sicko.

      Wonder how he coped with the Bullingdon dead pigs head?

      On second thoughts – best not dwell on that sicko mental picture.

    90. Robert Louis says:

      How now Brown’s ‘vow’.

    91. heedtracker says:

      Great British bullshit of the day

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/08/hate-tories-conservatives-dominance-pointless-protest

      Red tory becomes blue, England loves being tory, seriously hopeless for Lab if he’s right, its a Toryboy England because

      “Ken Spours, the author, explores the new Conservatives’ rising audacity and underlines how energised their politics has become now the shackles of coalition are off. Spours cites a passion among clued-up Tories for tech innovation (Uber and Airbnb, for instance) and more importantly a quest to steal political concepts like fairness, social justice and even equality from the left and “fill them with Conservative meaning”.

      Dirt cheap London taxi rides, rent out your hoose online, own all UK media, wrap everything in giant union jacks, never ever mention your Scotland region, vote Tory.

    92. Macart says:

      @Tackety Beets

      Oh jeez, that’s what they reckon is it?

      Something that needs stepped on is that its all about simply siding with the Conservatives in the referendum, though that was bad and bad enough. It gives them the out of saying ‘Look, yes we sided with the conservatives, but we did it with a certain conviction in our beliefs of a better Britain and for the best of possible reasons.’ Which is of course utter and complete horse shite, but something they could pitch with their media access. Those two faced back stabbers don’t get off that bloody easy.

      It was decades of neglect, arrogance, self entitlement,corruption, lies and manipulation which set the ball rolling on Labour’s demise even before the referendum. These actions crowned with a referendum campaign which saw them denigrate their own country, demonise and seek to harm half of the population and their own electorate, whilst attempting to mislead and outright bloody terrify the other half. All of that has Labour in a much deserved free fall.

      Those loathsome pricks in the parliamentary party, their spad attack dogs and strategists don’t get to tell us what they think they did wrong. We get to tell them what they did and hold and then hold them to account for it.

      Back to coffee and toast.

    93. Robert Louis says:

      Anybody else noticed, that in recent months, SKY ‘news’ has as much as possible adopted the Labour in Scotland mantra of not using the word S******d? They now refer solely to town names, and if you didn’t come from S******d, you would be hard pressed to know that SKY were actually referring to S******d.

    94. Have to admit that Brown’s “revelation” that the Vow had not been delivered had less impact than the Poles equaliser last night. I recall signing the Rev Stu’s famous petition last year asking Mr Brown to do something to himself. I am of the opinion this morning that the Rev’s advice to Big Gordon was more than justified.

    95. Another Union Dividend says:

      Lollysmum says: at 12.20 am

      Ian Murray is Labour’s greatest self publicist

      This is his Evening New article yesterday on more powers.

      https://archive.is/savGn

      It should be pointed out that Scottish government will have very limited flexibility over welfare powers if it is not given varied and meaningful tax powers as per The Vow.

      What the Red and Blue Tories want is for Scottish government to ameliorate the worst aspects of the Tories assault on the poor without giving Scotland any more money.

      As for Ian Murray he voted for the Tories spending cuts in January and voted against devolving VAT and Employment Law during the passage of the Scotland Bill.

    96. Cadogan Enright says:

      I am sure some Wingers are more up on the rules of conduct in the Scottinsh Parliament than I – but would it not appear that Kezia has breached a few on the Thompson issue?

      Who is allowed to complain ?

    97. Grouse Beater says:

      BBC propaganda at its best

      The nurse who has retained traces of the Ebola virus is a “Scottish” nurse. She’s not British at all. The English nurse who was cured, Anna Cross, was always referred to as ‘British. (Another one for the list British is best so long as it’s English: https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/oops-i-mean-britain/

      And at about 05.45am BBC 24 News found another pompous prat, a financial ‘expert’ free to warn that the impending EU referendum could cause the markets to “wobble, as they did over the Scottish one”. (None ‘wobbled’ over the Scottish Referendum. We were warned (scare-mongered) only that they ‘might’.)

    98. Another Union Dividend says:

      It seems Standards Commission is refusing to investigate Michelle Thomson as the matter raised happened before she became an MP.

      The holier than thou Lib Dems in Edinburgh West are all over Michelle Thomson like a rash.

      One should gently remind them of the £600,000 unpaid police bill and refusing return £2.4 million donation from a convicted fraudster which would have helped those ordinary people who lost thousands.

    99. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Robert Peffers –

      Anent David Daimbleby: he is certainly a Bullingdon Boy, however, while this august body has a reputation as restaurant wreckers, when it comes to necrophilic beastialty, that’s the preserve of the Piers Gaveston Society.

      I may be wrong on this, and cannot be bothered paying for a Directors Check to find-out, but, having sold the Dimbleby Newspaper Group to Newsquest, he might still be a non-exectuvive director of Newsquest, which owns the Herald.

      In the newspaper industry, when a large group swallows-up a smaller one, it is custom and practice for the main director of the group which has been taken-over to be handed a non-executive directorship in the new larger group. As Chairman of the Dimbleby Group, that would be David.

    100. ScottieDog says:

      @Grouse Beater.
      Yes we are held in the grip of fear about this market ‘wobble’. The lies about our dependency on ‘the market’ for govt ‘borrowing’ etc need to be dispelled over the coming months and years…

      http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=31715

    101. Grouse Beater says:

      Socrates: As Chairman of the Dimbleby Group, that would be David.

      Socrates, do you think Dimbleby had anything to do with the Sunday Herald turning blue an white, and the arrival of the National? (If an executive director.) Would he care?

    102. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers
      The pig’s head ceremony was part of the Piers Gaceston society rituals – allegedly. One obscenity the Bullers didn’t claim.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society

    103. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers
      The pig’s head ceremony was part of the Piers Gaveston society rituals – allegedly. One obscenity the Bullers didn’t claim.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Gaveston_Society

    104. Muscleguy says:

      Meanwhile over on the Grauniad I was trying to get Severin Carrell to come BTL and tell us why he was ignoring the major story of Kezia Dugdale’s CLP calling in the police to trace £10k of fundraised money that has gone missing after Labour Central Office did nothing.

      And I’ve been put on pre-moderation for it.

      Boy are the Graun touchy about their Scottish News editorial policy. REALLY touchy. I find that interesting.

    105. Marie Clark says:

      @Cadogan Enright 9.19. I have emailed a complaint to the Presiding Officer at the Scottish Parliament.

      Dugdale’s behaviour is outrageous. A complete and utter waste of time, and outwith the remit of the Scottish Parliament.

      FMQ’s is supposed to allow the opposition parties to question the government of the day about their policies and the general running of the country. This has not happened for the past two weeks. Just trying to score political points, and it is bringing parliament into disrepute. It is an appalling spectacle. I hope the Presiding Officer pulls her and her cohorts up.

      Utterly disgraceful.

    106. heraldnomore says:

      Marie the PO did interject last week, but FM said she was happy to answer, so it goes on…

    107. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Grouse Beater

      IF Dimbleby is a director of Newsquest, and, as I said, I do not know this for certain, then he will be a non-executive director, window dressing for the City of London.

      He would have no say into the political stance of the Sunday Herald and the National.

      Non-executive directors are there to have oversight on the general running of the business – to warn and advise an to give an aura of gravitas and good business compliance.

      A nice little earner, for not a lot of work – just the thing for a Bullingdon Boy.

    108. Grouse Beater says:

      Socrates: just the thing for a Bullingdon Boy.

      🙂

      Far from molesting pigs, I learn the Bullingdon Boys signature was smashing to pieces whatever restaurant or eatery they used. And they’re still at it, only it’s called Britain.

      The mystery is why English enjoy and respect being ruled by Etonians – the English class system alive and well.

    109. Chic McGregor says:

      @Capella

      This link works for anyone wanting their expectations confirmed.

      It’s like python upper twits race spoof – except they win.

      vimeo.com/74365223

    110. Chic McGregor says:

      How now Brown Vow.

    111. Andrew McLean says:

      Watching question time last night with my wife, I became uncomfortably clear to both of us that the reason that David was so attentive to Priti Patel, had nothing to do with her politics, and more to do with her womanly ways, and his raging horn! Really someone should have whispered in his ear he was being a bit of a perv!

    112. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      heraldnomore at 10.04

      ….and allow the two unionist leaders to further reduce their credibility as serious political figures….

    113. Nana Smith says:

      I kept this article from last year and thought it worth posting once again.

      Propaganda and the Scottish media

      https://stuartmchardy.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/propaganda-and-the-scottish-media/

    114. In today’s Courier 9 October 2015
      Gordon Brown says Cameron risks ‘double betrayal’ over Scotland Bill -.

      Didn’t he also tell us the vow was delivered in full?

    115. Andrew McLean says:

      Ops clicked too soon, Sorry Scotland, As a child of the Scottish education system when Scotland was a Scottish one party state under Scottish (sic) Labour, my three r,s did not reach the dizzy heights of youze guys on heer!
      I meant to say It Not I, so I apologize, again as i have not the vocabulary to properly explain the extent of my odium towards , the Herald’s political Stazi, may I just convey, through your organ Rev, this heart felt and justified riposte.

      Fuck you Herald coming straight from the underground
      A young Scott got it bad cause I’m Scottish
      And not the other Nation so Herld think
      they have the authority to slander a minority
      Fuck that shit, cause I ain’t the one
      for a punk motherfucker with a MSM and a Pen
      to be beating on, and thrown in slander and liable!
      We can go toe to toe in the middle of a Georges Square
      Fucking with me cause I’m a Scott
      with a little bit of brains and a dream
      Searching my past, looking for the sleaze
      Thinking every Scott is selling their country
      You’d rather see, me back in my box
      than me and Scotland rolling in prosperity
      Beat the MSM out of shape
      and when I’m finished, bring the yellow tape
      To tape off the scene of the slaughter
      Still getting swoll off bread and water
      I don’t know if they tractors or what
      Search a Scott down, and grabbing his nuts
      And on the other hand, without a Tory they can’t get none
      But don’t let it be a Red and a Yellow one
      Cause they’ll slam ya down to the street
      Red Tories showing out, for the red white and Blue ones
      Scotland will swarm
      on ANY motherfucker in a Unionist Party
      Just cause I’m from, the SNP
      Punk MSM are afraid of me!
      HUH, a young Scott on the warpath
      And when I’m finished, it’s gonna be a bloodbath
      of MSM, caught lying to you all.
      Yo believe it, I got something to say
      “Fuck the Msm ” “Fuck the Msm “

    116. Capella says:

      @ Chic
      Thanks Chic. That looks like an interesting video. It’s not the one on Youtube which has been hacked so that the sound – and even the subtitles – are scrambled. That one has Boris’ sister Rachel – see at 8min 18 in. But it does have some of the same footage.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra3By2DCic

      Quite understandable why the Bullers wouldn’t want it available to the oiks.

    117. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks, Nana, for the link to this great Stuart McHardy article, which I discovered recently myself. The Heydrich quotation seems to describe the general BBC approach to us in S______d.

    118. Edward says:

      Dr Jim @ 12:29 am & scotspine @ 07:44 am

      I watched last nights ITN News at Ten and was, first quite surprised that they had a ‘non-political’ news story from Scotland, as generally ITN ignores Scotland, other than some ‘political ‘ tit bit.

      But I found the news item disturbing, not for the seal culling, but the way ITN portrayed it, inferring that Scottish Salmon farmers are killing seals (cue picture of young seal pup)

      I felt it wasn’t an objective piece, but just a way of getting at one of the prime export trades that Scotland has
      They even showed a seal that had been shot, but admitted that it was on Shetland and had nothing to do with a Salmon farm

    119. Onwards says:

      Regarding the Scottish media, what do people think of the idea of the Scottish government offering to directly contribute towards a new BBC Scotland channel, supplementing the existing licence fee ?

      We already have the basis for this type of partnership in BBC Caesar! which is part-funded by the Scottish government with £14m annually.

      Say £50 million a year to contribute towards a stand-alone HD BBC Scotland channel on freeview ?
      Or it could be combined with BBC Caesar!, with gaelic programmes shown in the morning only. BBC Caesar! is mostly repeats anyway.

      It’s ridiculous how Scotland doesn’t have a genuine national TV channel, with BBC Scotland only operating on an opt-out basis.
      Its always been resisted because of funding, with most of the Scottish licence fee going towards network programs.

      In order to keep up with devolution, we should have the CHOICE of a UK-wide BBC 1, with opt-outs retained for news and current affairs, AND a separate BBC Scotland channel to better represent audiences here, which the BBC is currently failing at.

      Now if this proposal is refused, then it would become obvious that the opposition to a real Scottish TV channel isn’t funding, but political pressure.

    120. john king says:

      heraldnomore
      “Marie the PO did interject last week, but FM said she was happy to answer, so it goes on…”

      Your of course absolutely right,
      however Nicola Sturgeon having the honesty to stand up and face questions last week should not excuse Dugdale for eternity,

      If its not competent business its not competent business and should be stamped on by the presiding officer, or maybe she should be allowed to attack the SNP on foreign or maybe defence policies?

    121. scotspine says:

      @ Edward,

      And I have no doubt that the people that Produce and are Editors for these programmes are the same ones who make trips to Scotland to shoot Grouse and Pheasants and fly fish for Salmon whilst wearing their tweeds and looking down at us.

      I’m sick of Urban metropolitan outsiders imposing their (double standards) moral high ground on people making a living in harsh circumstances.

      These places they report on and settle in (re Gardenstown and Crovie – buy holiday homes – that are empty for 50 weeks of the year – and price out locals) are shadows of their former self.

      Disney land Scotland, sanitised of culture and local ways of life at the expense of interlopers.

    122. Nana Smith says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      There ain’t no doubt about it, the bbc agenda is to diminish Scotland and the scots. Actually appears to be the case with STV as well.

      Always looking for the dark side with no positive outlook, no wonder folks are switching off.

    123. galamcennalath says:

      @Onwards

      The problem in broadcasting is the same wider problem afflicting many other areas. That is, England and English affairs overwhelm everywhere else because of its disproportionate size.

      England is the default for everything, while other parts of these islands deviate from that norm and opt out sometimes.

      With devolution, block grants are dished out by WM. However, England gets no specific ring fence budget, it just dips into the UK overall budget.

      For broadcasting, take the ‘main’ news bulletins. They are typically jammed full of England specific stories on health, education, etc etc.. Then there is the news ‘where you are’. A better solution in a fairer better run UK would be for the ‘main’ news to cover international and UK wide issues, the English news to be shown on their version of ‘where you are’.

      There are two choices, across everything from financial policy, the way WM operates, etc etc, to broadcasting. We can massively restructure the UK to operate more fairly, or, Scotland can just do its own thing.

      We can do our own thing entirely through independence, and we can begin to do our own thing piecemeal until that opportunity is seized.

      So with broadcasting, I agree with you. It matters big time to Scottish democracy, and I think the Scottish Government should be pushing our own broadcasting. Yes, BBC Caesar! with more new programming not necessarily in Gaelic, plus another channel exclusively showing relevant Scottish content.

    124. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana Smith: I had no faith in STV either, but they have really gone out on a limb over MT. They’re playing a very dangerous game.

      Going to The Czech Republic for some hols tomorrow: now there’s a language that makes Gaelic seem like a breeze.

      Tìoraidh.

    125. Nana Smith says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Lucky You. Have a great time

      agus turas sábháilte

    126. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I see one or two comments regarding Tricia Marwick’s handling of Dippity Dug’s obsession with the Michelle Thomson “issue”.

      While I have never seen her criticised for any SNP bias, it should be remembered, Tricia Marwick is SNP – maybe, like Nicola Sturgeon, she is following Napoleon’s dictat about not interrupting your enemy when he/she is making a mistake.

      Every time Dippity Dug opens her mouth, the SNP gains another two or three converts.

    127. Tinto Chiel says:

      Nana: tapadh leibh.

      On the look-out there for Yes Hubs. You never know.

    128. Onwards says:

      @galamcennalath

      So with broadcasting, I agree with you. It matters big time to Scottish democracy, and I think the Scottish Government should be pushing our own broadcasting. Yes, BBC Caesar! with more new programming not necessarily in Gaelic, plus another channel exclusively showing relevant Scottish content.

      A partnership over a genuine BBC Scotland channel would be one way to get round the issue of broadcasting not being devolved.

      There is nothing to stop the SG OFFERING to contribute towards a real Scottish channel.

      We should really be getting that anyway after the BBC’s own audience council showed that Scots aren’t happy with representation on the BBC – one of their main charter objectives.

      But it will no doubt end up getting shelved with funding given as the excuse.

      At the very least offering to contribute funds, would clear up the question of whether there is a political decision behind a separate Scottish public channel.

    129. Thepnr says:

      Back on to Brown and the “the Vow is not being delivered” claim. I’m beginning to think that this may be just the start of another con.

      What exactly is Brown saying has not been delivered, well according to the Herald, just two things haven’t been delivered.

      “But with the two amendments we propose, we remove any suggestion the Scottish Parliament is denied the chance to top up welfare or is subject to any UK veto on implementing such a change.”

      Where is the Scottish government supposed to find the money from to “top up welfare”? If the money is not there what difference does a veto make?

      The example the Herald gives is Brown stating:

      He said the powers were essential to mitigate the impact of Conservative welfare cuts which, he warned, threatened to plunge a further 100,000 Scottish children into poverty.
      So with a limited ability to raise our own taxes and keep them here in Scotland the Scottish Government are supposed to “mitigate the impact of Conservative welfare cuts”.

      FFS, his own party abstained from voting against those cuts unlike the SNP who voted against them.

      Next up is Cameron agreeing to the Brown amendments and jointly claiming that NOW the VOW has been delivered. Told you we’re Better Together.

      Bastards.

    130. David McDowell says:

      Journalist: What do you think of the Scottish media?
      Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

    131. David McDowell says:

      Onwards at 10:56am

      That sounds like a perfectly workable and sensible idea. The Scottish Government should get on to it straight away. For that reason I expect it will never be heard of again beyond this forum page.

    132. K.A.Mylchreest says:

      @Grouse Beater
      ——–
      “The Vow is now being delivered”

      Aye, but the postman got the wrong address and, in keeping with Royal Mail policy, refuses to make a second delivery. He left a card requesting us to collect the package from No 10 Downing Street, London. Aye, that’ll be right!
      ———

      “Returned to sender, address unknown …”
      Since there is officially no such place as ‘Scotland’.

      Actually though, the terrible truth that even Wikileaks dare not reveal is that the Vow was abducted by aliens …

    133. Ruby says:

      Nana Smith says:

      Worth watching the Keiser report.

      RUBY REPLIES:

      The part about Bolivia was very interesting. Worth further research.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I’d say you’re right, that Broon is doing this for Lab’s own reasons, on the lines you suggest.

    135. Craig MachAonghais says:

      Handandshrimp @ 11.27
      Dimblebum has form in this regard. I remember a qt from a couple of years back when he pompously ordered Nicola not to talk about independence for Scotland as qt was a uk programme and should only discuss matters of uk wide interest. Apart from the ridiculous notion that freedom from London control is NOT a matter of uk interest, his offhand sneering manner was typical of the buffoon. And then without any sense of irony they went on to discuss the NHS in England…you couldn’t make it up!

    136. Nana Smith says:

      @Ruby

      Sorry I’m late in replying.

      I wondered if anyone would pick up on that. A small country getting on and thriving basically telling the bigger bully country to sod off.

      As you say some further research would be good.

    137. Effijy says:

      ross says:
      8 October, 2015 at 11:08 pm
      Ive just had a discussion with the half owner (supposedly) of a scottish bar in barcelona tell me that in his view ( a guy with an economics degree none the less)that scotland should never be independant as the oil indistry is better in the hands of westminster than in scottish hands.
      Hes lived in nine countries, he told me smugly, none of them scotland.
      Fanny

      Ross, I’d like to correct you on this, it’s El Fanny!

    138. Kennedy says:

      Every lie costs Labour in Scotland votes.

      They must be in negative numbers by now.

      Carry on.

    139. Farthnorthdavie says:

      Given that VW is also in the news at this time thought there could be a wee joke here, if you remember your TV adverts!

      Sounds like a VoW but it’s not a VoW.

      Sorry, I’ll get my coat.

    140. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Farnorthdavie –

      Nice one.

      It’s a VW with nothing in it. 🙂

    141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Farthnorthdavie.

      Would this be the dreel you are up?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nClfE5ctS1k

      And here’s the confirmatory short version.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI1fePX8DXM



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