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Transforming the question

Posted on July 09, 2020 by

The Huffington Post published a poll today, to the great delight of the likes of Stonewall Scotland, which seemed to fly in the face of every previous one on the idea of gender self-identification, a policy which appears to have been dumped by the UK government but is still very much in favour with the Scottish one.

That the poll had been commissioned by trans uber-fundamentalist website Pink News immediately set off alarm bells, especially as the site had previously asked a similar question, found dramatically different results and swiftly disappeared them.

As ever, Wings went looking for the truth.

Enormously suspiciously, the HuffPost article didn’t link to the poll tables or publish any screenshots of them, so there wasn’t any way of knowing what the actual question that people had been asked was. Fortunately, though, it’s available on the YouGov website, and it’s as dodgy as you’d imagine.

Interestingly, the poll found a significant decline in support for the idea in the last 12 months. Last June the company recorded a 33-point margin backing the proposition, while last month it was down by almost a third to 23 points.

But it’s quite remarkable that it’s even as close as that, because the question is so innocuous it’s startling that anyone would say no to it at all. Because someone merely identifying as something they’re demonstrably not harms nobody.

If a man wants to merely think he’s a woman, or a little girl, or a puppy, or Napoleon Bonaparte, it doesn’t make any material difference to anyone else. Most folk’s attitude is to shrug, roll their eyes and get on with their day. Crazy people think all sorts of crazy stuff, and it doesn’t matter if they’re not hurting anybody.

(Hell, some even think it’s a good idea to have your country ruled by another one.)

The problem arises when you then try to pass laws saying that the man LITERALLY IS those things just because he says he is, and giving him unrestricted access to places that for amazingly obvious safety reasons are reserved for actual women, actual children, actual dogs, or actual French emperors.

Up until now a clear line has sensibly been drawn (except in Canada, a country whose collective cheese slid off its cracker some years ago) at legislating mental illness into reality, otherwise we’d all be living in the Elysee Palace.

So when you poll voters not on the vague and meaningless notion of whether people should be allowed to think whatever they like (a basic human liberty), but on whether those delusions should be written into law, you get very different results.

A couple of months ago we got Panelbase to poll the Scottish public on a variety of issues around gender self-ID, and as usual we got very clear results: people DO NOT want the law changed to enable self-ID in real-world situations.


Last week we had the opportunity to ask the same questions (again via Panelbase) to a full-size sample of English voters, and the outcome was equally predictable.


The difference between the Scottish and English samples was just 2 points on the first question and 1 point on the second, with the biggest difference being a 10-point gap on the “changing rooms” question, with English voters being even more opposed than the already overwhelming opposition expressed by Scottish ones.

The Huffington Post article specifically cited women’s responses, but the margins there were still vast. English women were 2:1 against self-ID on the first question, more than 3:1 against identifying females as fathers on birth certificates, and more than 5:1 against letting people with penises into their changing rooms.

(On the last one, which most directly impacts women’s actual daily lives, there was essentially no difference between women and men. Women are socialised to be kinder and more inclusive than men, and that shows up in the more theoretical questions. Ask them if they want hairy male genitalia swinging around in their immediate vicinity while they’re trying on a new top and their attitude hardens very considerably, as the difference between Q46 and Q48 in the table above shows.)

It’s when you frame questions in reality rather than as abstract concepts that you find out what people really think. Because if a 56-year-old man wants to cut about in a dress sucking a dummy, it might be as icky as all heck but hey, it’s a free country.

It’s the day he starts demanding to be let into primary school classes and get changed in the girls’ toilets with the other six-year-olds because he LITERALLY IS the thing he’s dressing up as that most people think a line has been crossed. Be extremely wary of the motivations of anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.

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  1. 09 07 20 20:56

    Transforming the question | speymouth

312 to “Transforming the question”

  1. ahundredthidiot says:


    man, they’re an embarrassment……..but a well funded one.

  2. ahundredthidiot says:

    rev stu said,

    ‘(Hell, some even think it’s a good idea to have your country ruled by another one.)’

    what, no link?

    Don’t blame you.

  3. Mike d says:

    So 20% of scottish voters think its ok for women with dicks to use womens changing rooms..EVEN IF THEY OBJECT. The mind boggles

  4. susan says:

    Just shows you that everything they claim is based on lies and distortions. Thoroughly despicable.

  5. John D says:

    Thought that was Eddie E and Grayson P

  6. Largely reported in Prick News, the publication of 1/4 of the LGBT community.

    I leave it as an exercise for the reader to get which quarter of LGBT it represents.

    Archive link to Penis News.

  7. Mike d says:

    Should have added, bet that 20% would drop rapidly when it was their own wives and daughters objecting in the changing room.

  8. James says:

    Put your muzzles on and fuck up

  9. Normski says:

    If white people pretending to be black people by blacking up and adopting stereotypical black mannerisms is racist, then why is it not the case that men pretending to be women by wearing women’s clothing and adopting stereotypical female mannerisms not misogynistic?

  10. mike cassidy says:

    Now that one time Wings contributor

    Eric Joyce

    Has turned out to be a very dangerous individual

    I’ve decided to be automatically suspicious of any man who has no problem with penises being present in womens’safe spaces

  11. dakk says:

    ‘self-identification, a policy which appears to have been dumped by the UK government’

    At least you didn’t try make out the UK government appear ‘to be an exception’ this time.

    They are not even an exception within the UK on this matter.

  12. shiregirl says:

    Indeed. As a woman, this scares the crap out of me. Where and when will it end, I wonder. And at what cost?

    I also can’t help thinking if AS was still at the helm of the SNP, would gender self ID still be as important to the Scottish Gov? Why is this being pushed and for what reason?

  13. mike cassidy says:

    Who would have thought Billy Bragg would have fallen down this rabbit hole

    And landed on the side of the bosses?

  14. Oscar says:

    This trans shit has got to go into the,

    “Discuss at a later date” file.

  15. Oscar says:

    The Tories are practically handing Sturgeon Independence on a plate and she is saying,

    “For fuck sake, not just now Boris, can’t you see I am busy at the moment”.

  16. Liz g says:

    Normski @ 7.43
    It is indeed deeply misogynistic..

    Childhood memories of watching the Black/White minstrel show and seeing mither and the wee aunties tearing up at the Al Jolson story while a Golly Wog sat next to ma teddy on ma bed,it became really uncomfortable to eventually learn the symbolism of my warm childhood experiences to Black people!

    I recognised the feeling immediately because even as a kid the men in drag on TV I really didn’t like and would come to find as a young woman that feeling was offence.

    People who want to live their life in the culture of a women I’m pretty much live and let live about.
    There are things that were seen as masculine when I was a child that I include in my lifestyle today and that crossover is largely positive ( well I think so anyway )

    But I do find Drag offensive,if it is understood that people can’t “Black Up” anymore….why is it not obvious that Drag as a costume and a parody of a Woman is just as offensive ?
    And yes, I include pantomime dames in that too.

    Instead of it being consigned to history or sexual role play between adults,it’s back as entertainment for the masses!
    It beggars belief,it really does!
    Why would anyone think this is still ok!

  17. This was written by a lesbian,

    `It is undeniable that there is a virulent strain of misogyny in mainstream gay male culture.`

    once you read and understand this fact you can more understand the attitude of those gay men in Scottish politics that are behind the Gender Recognition Act with the help of the misogynists at Stonewall,

    she also wrote this,

    ` It seems possible that the misogyny that is rife within the gay male community has informed many gay men’s stance on the debate between feminists and trans activists.`

  18. mike cassidy says:

    And sadly,

    I’m beginning to think

    there is a misogynistic dimension to the ease with which men like Billy Bragg are happy to take the side of the men posing as women against actual women

  19. CameronB Brodie says:

    I may have triggered a filter again Rev. I’m not trying to drown out opinion, I was simply trying to support the blog by providing a perspective informed through psychoanalytical practice.

  20. MorvenM says:

    Mr John Nicolson is covering himself in glory again, calling women “abusers” if they raise concerns about male-bodied individuals participating in women’s sport:

  21. mike cassidy says:

    The ‘Women Make Glasgow’ group drew attention to the erasing of gays and lesbians last week.

    From now on to be referred to as

    “Non-straight cisgender people”

  22. CameronB Brodie says:

    If you are determined to re-write reality, at least try to do it properly. TA.

    Australasian Philosophical Review, Volume 2, 2018 – Issue 2
    Rethinking Nature: Phenomenology and a Non-reductionist Cognitive Science

  23. twathater says:

    Not really o/t this is a comment I posted on Peter Bell’s Talk to the hand post just as appropriate here

    What depresses me more than anything is that a whole country is being DENIED its future , our children are being denied a better future in a more socially responsible country , our pensioners are being denied proper care and protection from a narcissistic imbecile with a cabal of lunatics , our health service is threatened by destruction due to the self serving GREED of these same lunatics , our economy is in tatters yet we are a resource rich country that other countries envy

    YET we are being held in this despicable hostage situation by 1 WOMAN and her sycophantic supporters who are denying Scotland our better future , because she REFUSES to change her mind or REFUSES to even contemplate that what she is doing will NOT work , those self same sycophants are also REFUSING to exert their power to FORCE this 1 WOMAN to see sense and alter course

    This 1 WOMAN who runs a fairly competent govt is causing MORE division within the independence support by REFUSING to ditch her reviled and dangerous GRA amendments and HATE CRIME BILL that will Impact EVERYONE yet her sycophantic supporters are INSISTING that we must vote for her if we believe in independence for our country

    Here’s a little thought , how’s about those SAME supporters do something about this 1 WOMAN’S actions and policies , either remove her dictatorship or FORCE her to ABANDON these policies and her insistence on a sect 30 and let us non members but voters be happy and willing to vote SNP and move ahead with our independence

  24. Muscleguy says:

    Agreed, think about the motivations of people like those at Mermaids who want prepubescent children given drugs to keep them prepubescent even when they turn 16 and can legally consent to sex after being sexualised by being mentored by Trans people even if their parents object.

    Men known to have been in PIE are involved even. It is that blatant. They even have a nice aphorism: love knows no age. Which some might think is about your granny getting her rocks off with a toyboy, but it isn’t. Their ‘queer everything’ aim is to dismantle child protection and completely sexualise children so paedophiles can have their way with them.

    This is what the Woke are supporting. Open slather paedophilia.

  25. Ottomanboi says:

    When the backlash comes, as it well may as the trend becomes uncool and loses momentum, there may not be enough closets for these fantasists to return to.
    I’m sure the likes of Hadrian and Caligula would find this sexual exhibitionism rather tiresome…been there, done that, bought the T shirt….yawn!
    They do ugly rather well though.

  26. Muscleguy says:

    Oh and in the last thread I forgot to mention I’m tangling with a global warming denier who knows less about palaeo history than he thinks he does. They will cherry pick stuff they think are killer facts without considering the wider context. I’m a scientific omnivore and I’m pretty good on paleao stuff. As a biologist I’m interested in the creatures now extinct. I read the articles on new fossil discoveries etc. I’m the sort to wonder the Natural History museum peering interestedly at details of the skeletons on display. I chose to do that after being injected in the foot with radioactive strontium as we waited for it to percolate through me. The Hammersmith hospital is just around the back of the NHM so I wondered around.

    BTW you might have heard that tortoises and turtles keep their shoulder blades inside their rib cages, not outside. They don’t, they keep them in front of their rib cages (on top of the shoulder if it was us. The shoulder blade has moved forwards to keep it mobile and accommodate the upper shell. I peered at the tortoise skeleton in the case to double check for myself in 3D rather than a photograph in a paper.

  27. Capella says:

    Someone on Twitter pointed out recently that the Witchfinder General, Mathew Hopkins, was 24 when he began his campaign of misogynistic terror.

    He and his associates were responsible for more people being hanged for witchcraft than in the previous 100 years, and were solely responsible for the increase in witch trials during those years. He is believed to have been responsible for the executions of 300 alleged witches between the years 1644 and 1646

    By “people” Wikipedia means women but perhaps the editor has been persuaded to use the gender neutral term.

    It’s not the first time unscientific hokum has provided some young men and their female accomplices with an excuse to persecute women.

  28. Effijy says:

    Is Pansy a flower or an insult worthy of arrest?

    Mincing- is that something you do with meat or should be
    Arrested for insulting a person’s walk.

    Is a Dyke a stone wall or grounds for a person to get
    You imprisoned for insulting them?

    Oxford Dictionary May need to be completely redefined
    And end up with a few hundred words that you can use.

    Is it insanity or another step to 1984?

  29. CameronB Brodie says:

    The misuse of science to support misogyny, is interwoven into the fabric of western culture. The cult of genderwoowoo is simply a modern reenactment of structural hositilty towards gender equality.

    Surely our current predicament must emphasis the urgent need to kick these anti-democratic totalitarians out of the party?

    Full text.

    Naturalizing Phenomenology: A Must Have?
    Quite a few cognitive scientists are working toward a naturalization of phenomenology. Looking more closely at the relevant literature, however, the ‘naturalizing phenomenology’ proposals show the presence of different conceptions, assumptions, and formalisms, further differentiated by different philosophical and/or scientific concerns.

    This paper shows that the original Husserlian stance is deeper, clearer and more advanced than most supposed contemporary improvements. The recent achievements of experimental phenomenology show how to ‘naturalize’ phenomenology without destroying the guiding assumptions of phenomenology.

    The requirements grounding the scientific explanation of subjective experience are discussed, such as the nature of the stimuli, their variables, and their manipulation by properly phenomenological methods.

  30. Oscar says:

    The english and their fuckin cricket.

    I mean, who fuckin cares?

    The bastards at the BBC have even given the cricket it’s own weather forecasts.

  31. Capella says:

    @ CBB – I agree. But underlying the official justification there is usually something more venal. In earlier centuries it was women who had some coveted land or midwives and herbalists who got in the way of doctors establishing their profession and not tolerant of competition. It is still illegal in the US to practise midwifery.

    Today it may be getting rid of academics or writers occupying coveted chairs or holding promoted posts in universities. Who gets to frame the discourse?

    The witch hunting came to an end when they moved on to the wealthier strata of society. The elite were not prepared to be victims. It may be that JK Rowling is the modern day equivalent of someone rich enough and secure enough to challenge this nonsense.

  32. Oscar says:

    Tartan Tories still hanging around.

  33. Capella says:

    There are, of course, male victims of these moral panics. Stu and Glinner have been “cancelled” by Twitter. Ray Blanchard who researched autogynophilia (AGP), which is a mental health condition which probably lies behind much of the anti TERF rhetoric, has been a target of much abuse.

    There are many others. If the Hate Crime Bill gets on the statute book we can expect an exponential rise in the crime figures.

  34. Oscar says:

    It’s the Tartan Tories hero who is pushing all this shit through Holyrood.

    So don’t start looking for somebody to blame.

    It’s your Nicola who is to fuckin blame.

  35. Tannadice Boy says:

    I check in to this website now and again because of the analysis of the author rather than the associated comments. The author has nailed this issue several times now. Seemingly the SNP will persevere with the GRA. A vote loser but never mind we can all clap Nicolas 50th birthday. Getting further away from the population by the day.

  36. CameronB Brodie says:

    As with British nationalism, genderwoowoo seeks to undermine a legal respect for empirical and phenomenological reality, and is intensely regressive in nature. Subsequently, both ideologies support a legal environment that is harmful to the interests of distributive justice.

    Human Rights Education Project
    Human Rights Concepts, Ideas and Fora
    Substantive Human Rights
    The Right to Equality and Non-discrimination

  37. mike cassidy says:


    Executed witches were definitely not all men.

    Current estimate is about 20% were male.

    This is worth a read.

    And you won’t be surprised that the scholarly field is contentious in the pre-trans male v female way.

  38. Polly says:

    Their question is so innocently framed (deliberately of course) but as you state it’s surprising there are so many willing to say no. Reminds me of ‘I like France where everyone thinks he’s Napoleon, in Italy everyone thinks he’s the pope’. As you say, anyone should be able to self identify as whatever they want but without the right to make others act out their fantasy.

    The fact so many do say no would suggest to me more folk are becoming aware of what the meaning is behind it and that what they’re asking for isn’t innocuous at all. If that is the case, great, but on your poll and detailed questions for me there are still too many willing to say yes.

    Liz g @ 8.36

    I agree about the drag, but it’s especially repugnant when it starts to involve young children. All the shows on tv make it seem fun and cool and it seems many adults treat it as just dress up so no wonder children could be drawn to it.

  39. Capella says:

    @ mike cassidy – thx for the link. An interesting read and shocking to see how a complete shibboleth can result in so much suffering. Perhaps we need a day of rememembrance for the witch holocaust.

  40. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah hiv ah confession tae make ah wuce wore ma mammies furlined boots tae go tae the icecream van an ah wore her pinny when ah made cakes ah also cleaned oot wummins toilets but ah refused refused ah tells yous tae empty that wee bin in the corner .

    Ah wish’t this GRA shite wisnae ah distraction oan oor pursuit of INDEPENDENCE .

  41. Capella says:

    @ Liz g – I’ve never thought of drag acts as offensive. My parents used to find Danny la Rue hilarious on the Royal Command performance. Les Dawson did a well observed midlands wifie gossiping over the garden wall. The film “Dumplin” depicts drag acts coaching a set of musfit girls in performing on stage. Very affirming I thought.
    Pantomime dames are also fine with me with the principal boy played by a woman. It’s the topsy turvy world of the Saturnalia.

    But none of these are claiming to be REALLY women. It’s the sheer irrationality of “Transwoen ARE Women. End of. No debate” that is so destructive.

    Great comments on previous thread from yourself, Muscleguy and Cath. Glad I went back to catch up.

  42. Oscar says:

    The Tartan Tory Nikla luvvies huv put in some shift the day.

  43. Capella says:

    @ ronnie anderson – thank you for sharing that ronnie. 🙂

  44. A Person says:

    The Guardian has a weekly column where a couple go on a blind date.

    Recently the participants were two “gay women” except in fact that only one was an actual woman with a vagina, the other was a male who identified as a gay woman.

    The poor actually-a-woman had to go on a date with this pretend-woman, and as I read this I felt physically sick, as though this gay woman was being.. tortured is the word I’d use. Tortured by this “liberal” newspaper for its ever-so-forward-thinking readers.

    Misogynists, in my experience, pathologically hate gay women- unattainable and uncontrollable- and I am in no doubt that a group of very nasty men are using this whole thing as a means of controlling women. I do know a couple of gay women and they are terrified by these proposals.

    Mark my words, one day soon, another “date” between a gay woman and a “gay woman” will take place, the male will proposition the female, she will refuse on the grounds that she is not attracted to males, he will then commit a serious crime which we are not allowed to name on this site, and when the female complains, rest assured, the intelligentsia and liberal end of the media I n this country will take his side. She will have been “transphobic” for refusing him and the crime will have been a way of “educating” her and making her more “progressive”. Mhairi Hunter, Cameron Archibald, Owen Jones, etc., they will actively celebrate- they will be overjoyed at, they will laugh about and exalt in- the commission of this crime. The vibe will be “haha, we showed her”. If you’ve been following what Rev Stu’s been writing about this subject, tell me I’m wrong.

    And I think we all know which prominent female politician wouldn’t have much to say about that if it happened. (I’ll give you a clue: it’s the one with sweet f all to show for six years’ domination of Scottish politics).

    It’s lucky for us that the current Scottish Tory leader is a giant, live pair of golf clubs, because one with a fraction of a brain could see that, if the only thing keeping us from a society in which the above scenario was tolerated was something bedecked in Union Jacks and playing God Save the Queen, then even those of us who strongly believe in our country’s independence might have to start prioritising.

    I have come to detest the arts and academic worlds in this country for their acquiescence to this depravity, and if I was in office I would simply cut every subsidy for them and teach them a lesson. I have also come to detest many politicians I previously liked.

    Rev, not to be fawning, but if you’re reading this, good on you for fighting the good fight and speaking up for the voiceless. In my view, you’re worth more than all the other Scottish hacks put together.

  45. CameronB Brodie says:

    I might have mentioned epistemology one or twice? Well, genderwoowoo rejects our liberal understanding of nature, so is incompatible with our epistemic understanding of the world and the human condition. It seeks to undermine the cultural respect for “womanhood”, and obliterate the legal settlement of “equal but different”. That’s “epistemic violence”, that is, and pretty much what British/English nationalism inflicts on the Scottish identity and Scottish culture.

    Full text, as I hope there are folk who are concerned with defending open society and liberal democracy, which requires an ethical respect towards the epistemic integrity of institutional knowledge.

    Forum: Qualitative Social Research, Volume 19, No. 3, Art. 27 – September 2018
    Toward Epistemological Ethics: Centering Communities and Social Justice in Qualitative Research

  46. Liz g says:

    Capella @ 12.07
    I realise that most…especially from my generation didn’t find it offensive..and I didn’t at the time.
    It was all so normal.
    And it was all as funny as “The Jazz Singer” was moving.
    But Black Face is Wrong!
    This we know.
    Drag is also wrong…and for the same reasons.
    Tell me all the reasons Black Face is wrong?
    You’ll find every single one of them in Drag.
    If you are entertained by Drag
    You’ll also find every single one of the reasons you were right there in Black Face!

    If Women are not a costume or an expression of a stereo type then what exactly is drag portraying women as ?

    Thanks Capella….I had a million and one questions for Cath but I didn’t want to come across as an inquisitor..I hope she stays engaged 🙂

  47. mike cassidy says:


    But just in case you need another reason for severing ties with the UK

    Chris (King Midas In Reverse) Grayling is likely to be the next Chair of the Intelligence Committee

    Pleasant dreams!

  48. CameronB Brodie says:

    And we mustn’t forget about the ontological nature of reality.

    Forum: Qualitative Social Research, Volume 10, No. 2, Art. 30 – May 2009
    Ontological and Epistemological Foundations of Qualitative Research

  49. Liz g says:

    Ronnie Anderson @ 12.01
    If we removed this shite and persue Indy.
    Wull ye man the fuck up and empty that bloody bin fae the corner ?
    It disnay bite….HA… 🙂

  50. robbo says:

    mike cassidy says:
    9 July, 2020 at 11:33 pm

    Executed witches were definitely not all men.

    Current estimate is about 20% were male.


    Thank god for that.I was married to a witch but bloody pos she wasn’t a man or identified as one.

  51. ronnie anderson says:

    Sos lizg no can can do ah dont work in that pub anymair an ah dont go intae it period

  52. Oscar says:

    Liz g

    Would that be the bin with all the takings from the Wings Stall he took hame after every rally in the lead up to indyRef1?

    Those were the days.

  53. Col.Blimp IV says:

    As I understand it, The Gender Recognition Act will not come before parliament before the SG elections.

    Which means that the people who will endorse or reject it must first secure selection as Parliamentary Candidates and then present themselves to the electorate for their approval.

    If I were a Unionist Political Stratigist, I would be banging on the door of every church congregation and womans group in Scotland and doing my damnedest to convince every anti-SNP media outlet in the land that not one single Unionist Candidate will be backing this SNP MAAD Bill.

    And demand that they all shout it from the rooftops.

    That can be the only explanation why the MSM and the opposition are so silent on this issue – The sneaky bastards are just holding their fire until they can see the whites of our eyes.

    Perhaps JK Rowling has deliberately cast herself in a leading role as the savior of Womankind and the Union in the drama that they hope is about to unfold.

  54. robbo says:

    Oscar says:
    10 July, 2020 at 12:52 am
    Liz g


    You’re one creep of a yoon aren’t yi

  55. Beaker says:

    @mike cassidy says:
    10 July, 2020 at 12:42 am
    “Chris (King Midas In Reverse) Grayling is likely to be the next Chair of the Intelligence Committee”

    That’s a fucking oxymoron if ever I saw one.

  56. Liz g says:

    Robbo @ 12.55
    Ye mean Heinz 57?
    Me wee stalker wi a variety o names.
    Pay nae heed tae the mutt, naebuddy else does 🙂
    He’ll annoy the Rev eventually!

  57. Oscar says:

    robbo awakens from drunken stupor

    Yoon creep

  58. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liz g 🙂

  59. Oscar says:

    Night yol,,,

    Need to get out of this contaminated air

  60. Oscar says:

    Tartan Tories meeting time.

  61. ronnie anderson says:

    Aye they cum oot o the widwork when ah crack ah light LoL

  62. Oscar says:

    Liz g

    Say good night to yer wife on my behalf.


  63. Sarah says:

    @ Beaker at 12.57: spot on description of Grayling vis a vis intelligence. Not only that but morally soul-less too. How do they live with themselves?

    If I weren’t frightened before, I am now. It’s as if Dominic Cummings is sitting there thinking up the most inappropriate postings for his puppets and laughing maniacally at the helplessness of anyone to do anything about it.

    Liam Fox for WTO!! Grayling for Intelligence. Priti Patel for Immigration. Johnson as Prime Minister. The list is endless.

  64. Liz g says:

    Aye Ronnie..don’t be cruel and distract him..he’s scouring the streets of Kelvin Side looking fur me and ma fur coat..then hoof it tae Morningside tae find Capella and “fine” Knickers apparently…. ( anybody from Edinburgh explain 🙂 )
    Don’t tease him…his quest will be…challenging… 🙂

  65. ronnie anderson says:

    Ok lizg ah’ll leave him alain um ah Bafta fan ooyhows

  66. Liz g says:

    Sarah @ 1.17
    Every time I see Grayling….I think Mary Shelley wasn’t writing fiction but rather, prophesy….. 🙂

  67. Liz g says:

    Cameron @ 1.10
    A 🙂 right back at he my friend…LOL

  68. A Person says:

    -Col. Blimp-

    I don’t know about that. The Liberals are riddled with GRA fanatics and have you SEEN who is leading Labour and the Tories? I was slightly apprehensive that Carlaw would be smarter than he appeared, as he’s been around for so long, but no, he really is a Newton Mearns buffoon. The rumour is that he’s so desperate for his peerage he refused to criticise Cummings. Over on unionist social media they’re raging with him and looking for a replacement.

    As for Renton Lomond, I recently saw him on tv and honestly couldn’t remember his actual name, just that people on this site have a running joke where they pretend not to know it. I actually had to look it up. How bad is that?

  69. Liz g says:

    Ronnie Anderson @ 1.25
    Good stuff sir…we’ve ither fish tae fry.. 🙂
    And fine well ye know it 🙂 🙂 🙂
    If ah don’t see ye through the week..I’ll see ye through the winday….a Kelvinside windy of course…. 🙂

  70. ronnie anderson says:

    Nighty nite lizg

  71. Liz g says:

    Night Night Ronnie

  72. Sarah says:

    @ Liz g: Re Mary Shelley, I haven’t read the book nor seen the film but I was impressed with the extract printed in the Sunday National recently. What an extraordinary imagination she had.

    It’s a great idea of the Sunday to print excerpts from these great mostly Scottish novels especially during lockdown when some of us have more time for a good read. I have been struck by how powerful and interesting they have all been.

  73. Col.Blimp IV says:

    A Person

    Oh you mean Rickshaw Lickhard, had almost forgotten about him myself.

    Hahaha … I really have forgotten his first name!!

  74. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I always preferred Herman Munster myself.

  75. Liz g says:

    Sarah @ 1.44
    Welll….Castle Dracula ( the description of it ) is apparently in there’s enough of a Scottish connection there to warrant a recommendation 🙂
    Not the book itself..but rather the old Hammer Movies.
    See if you can see
    Any allegories to the Religions/Trans message.
    Too many to list here.
    The main message ( these films were aimed at adults ) was the Cross and the men would save the Women and it was just Women. Take a look…through *** Gendered** eyes… 🙂

  76. Liz g says:

    Sorry..not JUST a Woman…AlWAYS a Woman

  77. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Mary Shelly could see into the future and was warning women to be on the lookout for shape-shifting Trans[ylvanian] men?

    Spooky Woo Woo, that’s on the Outer Limits of the Twilight Zone!

  78. susan says:

    At first they were MtF transsexuals, then they became transwomen, quickly altered to trans women and now simply ‘women’. Appropriation and intrusion has been the end product of all this “be kind’ nonsense. I will not go along with it and from now on will call them trans-identifying males because THAT is the only accurate label. Kindness be damned!

  79. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Haud oan – Mary Shelly didnae write Dracula.

  80. Sarah says:

    Col Blimp IV: well Frankenstein was pretty fond of blood, wasn’t he?

  81. Sarah says:

    I mean, the monster, not Frankenstein.

  82. CameronB Brodie says:

    Getting back to ontology, as you do. I imagine there are lots of readers who imagine I’m simply gibbering mince that has no relation to the indy cause, so is none of their concern. Unfortunately, I’m not, and this stiff is of deadly importance to supporting open democracy and liberal society, without which our cause is dead.

    Full text.

    European Journal of Political Theory, August 12, 2016
    Ontology and political theory: A critical encounter between Rawls and Foucault

  83. Col.Blimp IV says:


    “Weirdo’s” would probably suffice.

  84. Col.Blimp IV says:


    Victor Frankenstein must have bee practically swimming in the stuff, to get all the bits he needed to put the monster together.

  85. Sarah says:

    Col Blimp IV – I really must read the whole book one day… 🙂

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    The support for the legal establishment of genderwoowoo as a principle in law, poses a serious threat to public health, which I imagine is pretty relevant to most folk, I’d have thunk.

    Full text.

    Ciênc. saúde coletiva vol.20 no.9 Rio de Janeiro Sept. 2015
    Ethics, collective health, qualitative health research and social justice

    The scientific field is characterized by the disputes about the delimitation of the field problems, methods and theories that can be considered scientific. The recognition that it is not neutral, that a researcher is a moral subject, and its practices are moral ones, entail that moral reflections, that is, ethics, should be a core process of every researcher.

    Therefore ethics is not a heteronomous issue, and cannot be reduced to guidelines. In the first part of this article we examine the need to develop an open approach to the construction of guidelines in a plural scientific field that must take into account diverse paradigms, which implies different values.

    The Brazilian process of writing guidelines on research ethics for social science and humanities in the context of the Ministry of Health will be discussed as an example. In the second part we expand the analysis of research ethics posing a perspective that integrates qualitative research, social justice and discipline trends.

    In the final considerations we explore the possibility that research ethics is better discussed taking into account the ontology, epistemology and political values rather than one specific methodological approach or from a dichotomic perspective between biomedicine versus social science and humanities.

    Key words
    Research ethics; Social justice; Qualitative research; Bioethics

  87. Willie says:

    Ultimately there.will be a kick back against the freaks who would invade intimate spaces.

    A man with a penis identifying himself as a women and occupying let us say a girls changing room must run the risk of being physically cleared out from the safe spaces they seek to invade.

    This gender self ID is a charter for perverted freaks. Ordinary folks don’t like it. And the next step – well that’s easy, legislation to allow child sex, sex with animals. It’s a one way road.

    And if you have concerns about the direction of travel ask yourself why a politician would take a transvestite called Flow Job to a school with young children. What was that about, yes what was that about, and no censure from the SNP high command.

  88. Breeks says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    10 July, 2020 at 12:01 am

    Ah wish’t this GRA shite wisnae ah distraction oan oor pursuit of INDEPENDENCE …

    Amen to that Ronnie.

    I don’t “think” I’m anti trans. Live and let live and all.. I grew up watching the likes of David Bowie exploring boundaries which maybe wasn’t my cup of tea, but nevertheless, he made being different and sexually ambivalent much more acceptable than it had been. Sometimes weird, sometimes too much, but never once did it seem threatening. He was different but earned acceptance. I reckon no David Bowie, there’d be no lots of other things too. These modern day Trans Zealots seem to crave domination rather then acceptance, and a very ugly misogynistic dominance over women at that.

    I find those pictures of people who are clearly male, but photographed as a gang of thugs with furry pink baseball bats about to commence battle with our womenfolk for the crime of being women is just disgraceful. The people are not in a healthy state of mind for one thing, but can you imagine that being ok if if they were targeting people by race or ethnicity? So why the fk is it ok to target women with their hateful, neurotic adolescent abuse? Absolutely intolerable. I know that’s just a publicity shot, but it’s more than that when when they’re turning up mob handed to shut down women’s meetings.

    The abiding reaction I have is kinda sad, because I don’t think these Trans-cultists or whatever the fk you’re meant to call them, will be satisfied until they have fully alienated themselves from mainstream society, driven back the level of acceptance and tolerance for trans-people, and slammed shut every door which people like David Bowie had managed to open. In years to come, if some person finds themselves genuinely conflicted with their sexuality, their every instinct will be to shut himself in the closet, suppress it and conform in misery because Trans activism in the 2020’s got far too big for its britches and society in general just got heartily sick of it’s deranged whining and insidious scheming.

    It’s impossible to tell where genuine sexual proclivities end and self centred narcissistic jealousy begins, but when the narcissism is intoxicated by power, well, it feels like the moment the toddler has just picked up the box of matches.

    Liz g was spot on yesterday. These people are acting like fevered evangelical fanatics from a darker century, determined to establish their Puritan religion as the truth, and they’ll bully and burn any ‘heretics’ who dare to disagree or stand in their way.

    What they’re doing strangling Scottish Independence seems sickening, because none of them give a flying fk about Scotland’s independence, but they’d schmoozed in on independence the way the early Christian church schmoozed in on pagan traditions and sought to make them their own. Scottish Independence has been parasitised as their carrier wave. There’s a fair chance it’s had some help along the way too. There are layers to this conspiracy.

    Nicola Sturgeon has a helluva lot to answer for. Oh, she can do the politics thing with her eyes closed, and charm the birds out the trees, but I fear when it comes to Scotland’s freedom, she’s just out of her depth and out of ideas, but too stubborn to admit it. She’s surrounded herself with people who want things for themselves, and none of them care two hoots about Scotland.

    Yet even now, at this late, late, late stage, she could still drop the hammer on a Constitutional Backstop to disrupt Brexit and plunge the UK Union into a crisis it couldn’t survive, and Europe would have Scotland’s back because Scotland would be their front line fighting back the US inspired deregulation of standards. But time is running out…

  89. Capella says:

    David Pratt in The National on the danger of divide and rule. Well he just says ‘internal division’ but I think it is more likely driven by outside influence not unadjacent to Westminster.

    THE polls may be encouraging, but I have an uneasy feeling about Scotland’s independence hopes right now. It’s a feeling that’s been growing for some time and is born out of experience over…

  90. Capella says:

    Holyrood Comittee publishes letters:

    A HOLYROOD inquiry into the Scottish Government’s handling of complaints against Alex Salmond has issued letters to Nicola Sturgeon, her husband and several other key figures requesting answers to…

  91. Sensibledave says:

    CBB 2.26

    You wrote “i imagine there are lots of readers who imagine I’m simply gibbering mince that has no relation to the indy cause“

    … I have accused you of a complete lack of self awareness in the past …. but there may be some hope!

  92. Capella says:

    Sorry, forgot to archive links

  93. Sensibledave says:

    Oscar 10.36

    … I do have some sympathy for you on this subject. It seems to me that the BBC are just rubbing your nose in the fact that Scottish sports teams are now rarely competitive on the world stage. I am sure there is some sort of “ism” that they are being guilty of.

  94. Breeks says:

    Oh! Michtie me, maybe I’ve been too critical of US food standards. They’re not totally heartless bastards. Here’s an Iowa mass producer who has just been forced to stop roasting thousands of pigs alive.

    It’d warn you not to watch it, but go ahead. Learn of another depravity Uncle Sam has mastered. It’s a kinda Auschwitz for pigs type of thing. (And I really wish I was kidding). No Zyklon B of course, that would have spoiled the meat.

    Ask again….Trade deal with the US? or trade deal with the EU… hmmm…

  95. Liz g says:

    Capella @ 7.10
    Talk about looking for problems..
    Every point he makes could be re written drawing the completely opposite conclusions.
    We’re no an actual army here,who could be stood down till needed. We’re no all party members who need to toe a line. We’re voters, of course we’ll all have different views on how we’d like Indy Scotland to go forwards.

    We’re stuck without an actual campaign and a leader,so yes we’ll explore different issues and draw different conclusions.. that’s a good thing. Because it’s showing that we’re thinking about and working through stuff.

    It’s probably a good thing too that we’ve had time and space to work out personally where we stand on things in theory,before we have to actually take a stand.

    A big part of the reason we aren’t able to be put back in our box is because we’re not all on the same page and the MSM can’t direct the narrative,the British can’t pin down the group’s to identify pressure points.Basically we communicate!

    We’re still here ( and there and Scotland wide ) and we’re still organising and learning and there’s shelter in the collective.

    It’s a scary arse kind of country that can’t hold wide opinions
    Using the time between now and campaigning to find our individual niches is useful.
    One person’s argument is another person’s debate, all that really matters is that we tick that Yes box and I don’t see any division on that 🙂

  96. Terry says:

    The TRA modus operandi is to sneak things through under the radar. Strange times indeed if it’s actually jk Rowling speaking out that manages to shine a light on this issue leading to pressure from snp supporters forcing Nicola to dump it BEFORE 2021 – thus saving the snp a pasting and potential loss of indy majority.

    Who knows what will happen? But this vote loser is a disgrace. Well done to kenny macaskill for saying both votes snp is wasted. I notice John swinney has just slagged him for saying so on bbc shortbread but no mention of Julie Hepburn saying vote green on the list. This is worse Cos she’s actually endorsed another party – and her a paid official.

  97. McDuff says:

    Is there not something decidedly odd that when the polls show a reasonable consistency towards Indy with a possible referendum on the horizon that we have this woke thing coupled with a looming and possibly damaging investigation into the Salmond affair.
    Something is at play here.

  98. Mark says:

    Great fact based analysis as ever Stu. As someone on twitter said, if a child has anorexia we don’t affirm their view they are over weight and enshrine it in law. There is a collective psychosis in the trans rights lobby that needs to be called out for exactly that.

  99. Breeks says:

    Capella says:
    10 July, 2020 at 6:55 am
    Holyrood Comittee publishes letters:

    Yes, but a couple of curious omissions from those called to give written evidence….

  100. Capella says:

    @ Breeks – hmmmm don’t know what’s going on there. Last time I read anything about it, Linda Fabiani was demanding Leslie Evans release the documents from the civil servants and Leslie Evans was claiming that emails are automatically deleted after 14 months? and this was month 15. Can’t remember where I read that but I did post it on WoS.

  101. Stuart MacKay says:

    Capella @6:49am

    I would have thought that any leadership involved in a bid for independence would be mindful of the range of opinions within the movement they were representing and move to resolve any differences in opinion before things got out of hand.

    We don’t really see that happening. Instead the dialog is rather one sided with a constant stream of stories saying if you don’t do it our way then you’ll go blind or something or other. Yet the “our way” remains shrouded in clouds and mystery.

  102. Ottomanboi says:

    Compulsory mask wearing and the right to say NO, US style.
    O what a existential mess they make, the functionaries hell bent on keeping us ‘safe’.
    Life’s like a bungee jump, sometimes the elastic thingy snaps… and safety really ought to ban it.
    Oops, they have already, for the last 4 months.
    Refund not available.

  103. Capella says:

    @ Stuart MacKay – I heard John Swinney answer questions on RScotland this morning. He says SNP MSPs should advocate to vote SNP. Would it not be illegal for the SNP to “collude” with another party in an election? He can’t really say to people to vote for somebody else! Apologies if I’ve misunderstood your point.

    @ Breeks – it is probably this article form the DR:

    In a letter to Evans in May, Fabiani requested documents relating to five areas.
    These were the development of the anti-harassment policy that the Salmond complaints were investigated under; the investigation into Salmond himself; and the judicial review.
    Also requested were documents relating to any internal probe into how the Salmond investigation was carried out.
    In addition, Sturgeon separately referred herself for investigation on whether she breached the ministerial code, and the committee also asked for documents relating to this issue.

  104. ahundredthidiot says:

    And most people still believe that this has nothing to do with legalising paedophilia.

    That’s the end game, folks, GRA just another step along the way – and Hate Crime Laws to see off any objection. ‘Hater’ they will call you and try to lock you up – just to shut everyone else up – and it’ll work because our society is too weak.

    Another one where the tin foil hat wearers get proved correct.

    There’s a ‘routemap’ out there – and it is being played out in front of our eyes by an awful lot of compromised people.

  105. Capella says:

    @ Breeks – that was a Paul Hutcheon article on the DR dated 8th June – for some reason the name and date don’t appear in the archived version.

    There is a response from Leslie Evans to Linda Fabiani from 12th June 2019 assuring her that all relevant Civil Service documents are archived and not destroyed. So I’ve no idea where the scare story of documents being deleted comes from.

    However, the problem seems to be that the committee won’t get the docs from Ms Evans till end of August and that’s too late says Ms Fabiani. That stand off will have to be resolved.

  106. Rm says:

    It’s just about time real people got control of running things, the people in charge all have a hidden agenda that’s totally alien to probably at least 95 percent of the public, most of the Scottish politicians have no conviction, they all tow the party line their not allowed to speak for themselves, what Scotland needs is individual thinkers who don’t care so much for themselves but care for a fair future for the people in Scotland and for people all over the world, we’ll never achieve it keeping this medieval copycat Holyrood parliament, we have to be totally different from Westminster, it’s happening now people are looking to change things themselves.

  107. @ahundredthidiot,

    the old established hiding and hunting places for child molesters like the church,public schools,UK parliament,BBC,cubs/ scouts,sports clubs,social services have been making it harder and harder for child molesters to get away with their abominations,

    to get access to their prey they have infiltrated the transgender movement and used that as a vehicle to influence political and media thinking on changing laws and social attitudes to allow them the legal and social right to their abominations,

    all assisted by the bovine do gooder liberal white middle class bearded woke misogynists.

  108. Armitage Shanks says:

    Breeks says:
    10 July, 2020 at 7:29 am

    Click bate.
    The animals were being euthanised,still distressing.

    Do you really think steam can be delivered in a tanker like oxygen?

    Theres a debate to be had around our food and people should be aware of the reality of mass production, but this appears straight out of the Greta Thunberg narrative.

    Remember as well as being able to self id we have to become vegetarians in the bright new future.

  109. Oscar says:

    When will Sturgeon start talking of issues other than the Corona Virus?

    She gives interviews in front of the camera for up to two hours Monday to Friday.

    Surely she could slip in the odd mention of Scottish Independence.

    Or even a mention about how Brexit is going to drag the Scottish economy even further into the gutter.

    But to say nothing is verging on criminal.

  110. Scozzie says:

    I hope all the SNP candidates that are pro-GRA reform / TWAW are made known prior to HR election campaigning. That will enable voters to know who they’re voting for.

    I’d also like that pro-women’s rights candidates fight the election in those same constituencies. I’ll probably have howls of don’t do anything to affect the SNP constituency vote, and in principle I agree. However, these wokesters need booted out and if the SNP leadership won’t, then perhaps the voters need to do it.

    Before peeps say that would mean a pro-women’s rights candidate would go up against Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency. I say so be it! Maybe it will give the leadership pause for thought.

    This issue is costing us independence. And we know these wokesters are soft on independence anyway. Perhaps a potential voters revolt will be enough to get them to officially dump this bad legislation in the hope of self preservation and retaining their seats.

    Because if we don’t play fire with fire I can’t see any other way to get them to drop this disastrous societal experiment.

  111. Oscar says:

    And remember and take a mask if you are going out shopping.

    It will be compulsory from today to wear a mask inside all shops.

    Don’t get caught out.

  112. Colin Alexander says:

    The British Imperial parties all have the same policy: Keep Scotland a colony of the Empire.

    So, what’s to stop all pro-indy parties having the same policy: a vote for us is a vote for independence? So any election is a plebiscite on independence / dissolving the Union / restoring Scotland’s national sovereignty.

    On the basis it’s Scotland’s people that are sovereign, NOT any parliament, the mandate sought is 50% +1 of all votes cast, not how many pro-indy parliamentarians are elected. (Though a majority of pro-indy votes would probably also result in a majority of pro-indy politicians).

    I’m told the Imperials will boycott it. Fine by me. In absolute worst case scenario we have a mandate for indy that is not recognised but, it will achieve a parliament 100% clear of imperials. It would be a win-win scenario.

    It would be worth it just for that.

    So, every election, where an indy plebiscite is sought, would not be boycotted. There is too much self-interest involved. Easy money.

    The big problem is not imperials, it’s the colonials, the SNP leadership and other “pro-indy” politicians who are more pro-devolution other policies such as GRA etc, than they are pro-independence.

  113. Effijy says:

    If I were Trans and a decent person I would be able to see the
    Obvious and proven danger of others claiming to be Trans for
    Illegal and immoral practices.

    Many people make sacrifices for the greater good rather than self interest.
    I give NHS Staff without PPE treating Covid patients as an example.

    I ask them to realise these dangers and help to suggest safety measures and
    Process where the majority feel secure.

  114. MaggieC says:

    Capella @ 6.55 am
    Breaks @ 8.50 am

    Re the National article here’s the link to the Scottish Parliament showing the request for information from various witness

    And the link to previous correspondence

    And this article from the National shows the list of witnesses to the inquiry is a provisional list and more witnesses could be added to the inquiry as it progresses .

  115. Effijy says:

    I see on-line this morning that Boris intends bringing in Chris Grayling
    In work closely with UK Intelligence?

    If ever an oxymoron was given as an example!

    The man who placed a multi million pound order for
    Cargo ships with a Tory supporter who had no ships
    and never had ships.

    It also resulted in compensation pay outs to others from tax payers money.

    I think Boris has had to dig deep to find another Tory more stupid than himself
    That might take the heat off his almost daily F*** ups.

    This trend dates back to the days of the Spanish Court where less pretty young females carried
    Very ugly pet monkeys that made them look good.

    Boris, in your case I’d rather marry the monkey and you know what you can do with your nuts!

  116. Stuart MacKay says:

    Once more Chris Grey’s Brexit blog,, is probably worth a few minutes of your time for two reasons. First the issue of independence gets a whole paragraph as usually Scotland rarely gets a mention. The second and more important point is that Grey describes the Johnson government as one based on “symbolism rather than the substance”. With Brexit the ability of Westminster to say no to a second referendum exists more in our heads than in reality. The key paragraph is:

    Fiddling while home burns

    The bitter irony is that just at the moment that Britain is least well-equipped but most in need of a serious re-appraisal of its place in the world, this sham patriotism neglects the ways in which, domestically, it is falling apart. A favourite Brexiter line is that Britain is “the fifth largest economy in the world”, yet it is bedevilled by a longstanding productivity growth problem, dramatic levels of inequality and crumbling public services. A report from the Sheffield Political Economy Research Institute (SPERI) last year showed how, on a range of measures, Britain is actually ‘undeveloping’.

    The current coronavirus has exposed many of these problems to a greater degree, and exacerbated some of them, but it has also, as Fintan O’Toole argued recently, shown the delusions of Johnson’s Brexity world-beating rhetoric. The issue, again, is symbolism over substance. There is no patriotism in endlessly declaring national superiority whilst daily delivering outcomes that are, as in this case, so much worse than most other countries.

    Clearly Westminster’s hand in any negotiations is not a strong as they think or would like it to be. An England that is falling apart may simply be unable to hang on to Scotland despite desperately wanting to.

    One of the links in the article from Foreign Policy,, is also worth a read if only to see how the world has changed since the pandemic. It forces home the point that the Tory government only has symbolism left. The substance clearly left a long time ago.

    One thing of interest in the Foreign Policy article is that in a sense independence is inevitable. Could it be that the shift to the right in the SNP is really post-independence positioning so that it can remain intact and theoretically the dominant party in Scottish politics. That sort of implies that they think independence is going to be delivered into their laps in which case they don’t need to take the entire population with them.

  117. Ruby says:

    ‘Most Women Support Self-Identification’

    The problem I have with that headline is that I don’t know what the term ‘women’ actually means.

  118. Stuart MacKay says:

    Capella @9:18am

    My point was (sorry it was not clear) there is lots of talk of damaging divisions and how not following the SNP to the letter will derail independence and it will all be the dissenters fault. However if the SNP leadership was really interested in running a unified movement then why do they continue to pursue the immensely damaging trans policy and drag their feet on many, many other issues when chopping off 1% of the vote to save 50% would seem so obvious a child of 2 could figure it out.

  119. Oscar says:

    I see the Lanarkshire champagne (Buckfast) was flowing late into the night on Wings.

    They are a weird lot out there in the sticks.

    They are also known as the Scottish Hillbillies out that way.

    Going by the contribution from some of their locals on here it’s easy to see why.

  120. iain mhor says:

    @Oscar 10:02am

    You answered your own question – because it is only Health Briefings.
    Anything else and the plug would be pulled rapidly.
    Normally, our FM is afforded a short segment on national TV – usually preceded by a point of opposition – which response is quickly interrupted as soon as anything ‘contentious’ is about to be mentioned – then seamlessly cut to a talking head’s ‘official interpretation’ of events.

    For the same reasons, the FM’s daily briefings do contain political questioning; but in order to continue discussing important health issues (without sudden technical problems, or editing) those political questions are never directly addressed.

    You remember that surely?

  121. Oscar says:

    I think it should be compulsory for any foreigners from england who are coming to Scotland for a holiday to wear armbands stating,,,

    “I am english, stay away”

    Watch out for the spike in infections once we have been invaded by the desease ridden
    Populace from the south of our border.

  122. Capella says:

    @ Stuart MacKay – sorry – the GRA reform policy was supposedly agreed at Conference but I think the members probably agreed to an anodyne “Let’s all be kind to everybody” type resolution which was subsequently turned into the GRA reforms. Devious I know.

    I expect the senior members feel they have to abide by policy. After all, if it’s a bunch of aggressive bullies and bigots terrorising poor little Transwomen then naturally they are going to stand firm and refuse to budge. This ideology seems to be very persuasive to a certain left-of-centre but not too bright in the science department person. For example, Jacinda Ardern is fully on board.

    I also think they have more than enough on their plate ATM.

    BTW I’m not a member of any inner circle, just a lowly member in the sticks reading whatever runes I can get hold of.

  123. Stuart MacKay says:


    Back to the original article in The National: It seems that a good number of the divisions are a direct result of wilful deafness on the part of the leadership. In addition the dissent is being given the “now is not the time” treatment. I can see the value in running a tight ship but deliberately running it aground in defiance of all the warning cries seems a little pig-headed.

  124. mike cassidy says:

    We are all aware that the Tories have said they are not going ahead with the GRA reform in England.

    Yet the ‘men can become women’ meme has already embedded itself so well there that you get this.

    Men’s feelings prioritised over women’s realities even in the most extreme circumstances.

  125. A Person says:

    -Stuart Mackay, Capella-

    The issue is that when the leadership and their media outliers say “let’s put our differences aside and work for the common goal” they don’t mean “let’s all compromise, avoid divisive issues and focus on our raison d’etre”, because if they meant that they would have dropped a niche issue opposed by 80% of the public.They mean “shut up and take what you’re given, if you find our policies and priorities abhorrent, tough”.

  126. mike cassidy says:

    Good read about one of the staunchest opponents of genderwoowoo.

    The Staunchly Imperfect Chaotic and True Allyship of Graham Linehan

  127. mike cassidy says:

    We are all aware that the Tories have said they are not going ahead with the GRA reform in England.

    Yet the ‘men can become women’ meme has already embedded itself so well there that you get this.

    Men’s feelings prioritised over women’s realities even in the most extreme circumstances.**eCrisis/status/1281178119064489984

  128. Polly says:

    ‘Remember as well as being able to self id we have to become vegetarians in the bright new future.’

    Even vegetarians and vegans are in danger from some practices. Listeria and other food bourne cases in vegetables regularly show up in USA killing people and causing illness. Canada brought in stricter regulation on vegetables imported into the country after outbreaks from stuff produced (if I remember correctly) in Arizona. Although I think afterwards the reports were made more ‘grown outside Canada’ language to be diplomatic, but at the time most concern was the lower standards down south. Though some tales can be exaggerated or videos doctored there are enough real horror stories from there to frighten us all. Look what they were allowed to do before changes were tightened, and that’s assuming everyone adheres to all the rules since.

  129. Gary45% says:

    Oscar, One has to be more original in one’s attempt at humour.
    I think one means Scotch Hillbillies.
    You are definitely”only here for the banter”.

  130. Beaker says:

    Everyone got their masks? (Not the gimp variety, whatever that is).

    I’m tempted to add my protective goggles and a pair of Marigold’s to complete the picture…

  131. liz says:

    @Calpella, please stop making excuses for the FM’s dereliction of duty over Brexit, indy etc.

    Conference voted on a manifesto which included reducing APT, this would have led to increased jobs in aviation.
    They dropped it when they jumped on yet another bandwagon re climate change.

    And before people say climate change is the most serious thing to happen to the planet, let me explain.
    If we had Prestwick as a trans Atlantic hub, it would mean people could travel from there rather than increasing their carbon footprint by travelling via Heathrow.

    There are other ways of dealing with this, including developing cleaner fuels, people are not going to stop flying, so you make it as pollution free as possible.

    Also in the manifesto was #indyref2, if there was a material change.
    So The SNP do not stick to their manifesto, they used to when Alex was in charge but the party was more democratic then.

    The GRA reform in the 2016 manifesto had a vague mention of international best practice with no explanation of what that would be.
    The 2019 GE manifesto had no mention of GRA reform at all.
    Yes I know it’s devolved but Stewart McD said at a hustings that he would campaign to change the reserved 2010 EQA.

    We need to face up to reality, the SNP are not the party they were.

  132. Polly says:

    On why the SNP still stick with GRA knowing what a divisive issue it is, I too could not work it out. Twenty years from now a majority might support their agenda since things change, but to buy into this so fully when half at least of your own voters are against, and the small c conservatives we need to win over will never support it, and doing that when brexit is going ahead and the SNP should be trying to push for independence, why? I keep thinking, why? I never get an decent answer.

    The only thing I’ve come up with is youth empowerment. We all thought younger folk would be the future of yes, SNP canvassed them and tried to give them what they want. They were the future of yes and it was safe in their hands. But in doing so, only the louder voices were listened to, and often the more extreme. And in making them into activists, SNP leadership enthused them, promoted them but failed to give them discipline or direction needed to win hearts and minds. Results often seem like lord of the flies stuff at times. Result is they feel privileged to have the ear and backing of the queen and disparage anyone who disagrees. Not only are they often abusive and bigoted, but ageist, misogynistic and childish, even though many are into their thirties. And as Kenny MacAskill said many activists become councillors become MSPs/MPs. I see some of the younger ones putting their names forward for 2021 already, or saying they’ve been asked to do so and are fully on board with the ones already in position in the party.

    Yes, they’re in most leftish parties and yes thank god at least in SNP we have Joan McAlpine types too, but they’re still being promoted to put themselves forward for 2021 and SNP is the party of government and I’m not convinced they won’t get nominations and be elected and the party will be worse for the loss of diversity of views on the road it’s going. I saw some start to have a go about Mireille Pouget and the fact she was on the NEC while being transphobic. I later saw a tweet from her saying she wondered about staying in the party. Yet the leadership say nothing, do nothing, to stop this. It’s like they’ve created a monster they can’t control. Frankenstein indeed. My stomach turned on the lack of support for, and mostly the lack of condemnation against, the abuse of Joan McAlpine for doing her job and doing it well. That was unforgivable.

  133. Republicofscotland says:

    I wish the Scottish government would drop this self-ID nonsense, folk living in the real world realise that people who want to be seen as a teapot or a duck, can’t have it enshrined in law. A good clear out of the ultra wokers within the party, and the Greens for that matter is what’s needed.

    Who or what group is pushing this at Holyrood and is their agenda to divide the independence movement for the benefit of say Westminster, after all Holyrood must have surely been infiltrated by operatives working covertly for the union.

  134. Republicofscotland says:

    Meanwhile former Scotland Office minister, and part time referee, Tory Douglas Ross, who saw more of the football fans than he did his constituents, has put his foot in his mouth again a common Tory trait.

    Ross said on the ultra unionist Radio Scotland that it was reckless to put people off from coming to Scotland from the rest of the UK, by suggesting quarantine rules could be imposed on them.

    Ross however, completely backs the quarantine idea in Australia.

  135. Oscar says:

    Liz 12.51

    Brilliant post

    And another reminder that the Sturgeon luvvies (Capella and Co) on here are backing the wrong horse.

  136. Oscar says:

    The more you support Sturgeon on forums such as Wings Over Scotland, the more you encourage her to carry on with her unpopular policies.

    So if the Sturgeonistas on here would only shut their mouths regards openly supporting Sturgeon, then maybe we would have a chance of moving Sturgeon onto pastures new.

    Are you listening Capella and Co?

  137. susan says:

    Is Fergus Ewing woke, does anyone know? Can’t find anything on his twitter line but he IS in the cabinet that ? Nicolson ? Smith said was all pro GRA.

  138. Clapper57 says:

    @ Republicofscotland @ 1.17pm

    ” Ross said on the ultra unionist Radio Scotland that it was reckless to put people off from coming to Scotland from the rest of the UK”.

    Yes RPScotland, so then does he, Douglas Ross, not also see how reckless it is for Gavin Williamson , his colleague, to “put people off from coming to Scotland” to study by putting a cap on the amount of English students able to come to Scottish Universities?

    Almost as if we are only one UKnotOK when it suits them but when it does not then distinctive measures can be imposed…also when it suits them….#DoAsISayNotAsIDo


    My son went to Hull University had to pay fees and my brother went to Cambridge University he also had to pay fees….mention this in case get some incoming …ah but English students have to pay fees in Scotland and Scots get free tuition….yes they do….but they, English students, also have to pay fees at English Universities as do Scots at English Universities……so what to do…eh ?

  139. Scozzie says:

    I don’t know who to credit for this (found it on the net think it originates from Mumsnet in America) but it sums up this shit perfectly….

    We just want to pee.

    And use your changing rooms.
    And shower beside you in the gym.
    And sleep beside you in the hostel.
    Also sleep beside you in hospital.
    And if you’re a lesbian, we want to fuck you with our lesbian penis.

    We just want to take your allotted women’s shortlist spaces. And win your women in STEM or business or arts awards.
    And count as you for pay gap data.
    Also for the crime we commit, when counted statistically.

    We really just want to pee.

    And also play on your rugby and football teams.
    And win your gold medals and set your world records.
    And your women’s scholarships.
    What difference does it make to you how someone identifies?

    We just want to pee.

    That some of us film ourselves wanking in your cubicles and post the videos online — you can’t judge a group by a few bad apples.

    We just want to pee.

    And you can’t blame us that some of us also rape you and get imprisoned with you in the female estate.
    We also want into your rape and DV refuges.
    And your support groups.

    We just want to pee beside you, change beside you, shower beside you, sleep beside you, be in the scrum beside you, stand on the podium beside you, take from you, do time with you, and fuck your lesbian vagina.

    And gaze at you everywhere and anywhere but inside a private home because there is nowhere you can exclude us.
    Oh — and by “you” we also mean your daughters, of whatever age.

    And I forgot — we also want you to stop calling yourselves women, stop referring to your pregnancies, menstruation, vaginas, uteri, cancers, or breastfeeding in any way that associates those with women — because that hurts our feelings.

    If you cannot accede to every one of our wishes, we’ll threaten you with rape and death online, if possible get the police to act on our complaints about you, and notify your employer of your bigotry.

    And if you try to organise protest against any of this, we’ll harass your venue, make a bomb threat, beat you to the floor, have the police eject you though you’re only sitting on chairs eating pizza, threaten you with baseball bats, and — now — organise a city council to limit your right to speak about yourselves and your issues.

    Because your words are hate.
    If you don’t like any of this — stay home.

    We just want to pee.

  140. schrodingers cat says:

    nicola continues to play a blinder, the unionist msm have got nowhere to go, no idea how to stop her and they cant lay a finger on her

  141. Oscar says:

    I suppose we have moved on in the eyes of the english ever so slowly.

    Not so long ago it was common place to hear of “England and the Regions”, where the Regions they were talking of were Scotland Wales and N Ireland.

    So the english can hear you when they want to.

    And many years ago it was not unusual to hear of thick Irish Paddies, or black gollywogs, or Paki’s and so on.

    The english have been dragged into the 21st century screaming and kicking.

    They are finally getting that their racist slurs were insulting.

    It just seems to be the Jocks who are still an easy target for the patronising racist english.

    Please God,,,get us out of this stinkin fuckin Union we are trapped in with the detested racist english.

  142. Capella says:

    Just been shopping with my regulation mask on. Almost everyone complying.

    @ liz – I have no interest in defending Nicola Sturgeon. People can draw their own conclusions from the information available to them.

    @ Polly – I agree about the youth empowerment aspect. That is a very strong element in the Party. But I would be amazed if Fergus Ewing is woke.

    As to why they are not pushing for independence right now. There is a deadly pandemic. NS has repeatedly said that her focus is entirely on containing the virus to save lives. Seems to be having some effect.

  143. schrodingers cat says:

    liz says:
    Also in the manifesto was #indyref2, if there was a material change.
    So The SNP do not stick to their manifesto, they used to when Alex was in charge but the party was more democratic then.

    yes, they did, but it isnt the snp who is blocking this, its bojo
    the only way to hold indyref2 is without a s30. that would end up in a shambles

  144. Oscar says:

    schrodingers cat

    So you are all for Sturgeon to continue as leader of the SNP?

    So you will be fully behind her GRA and updated Crime Bills?

    So YOU personally must be all for men dressed as women entering women only spaces?

    And you must be all for sending members of the public to jail for critisising her policies.

  145. Capella says:

    @ SC – also, they did schedule Indyref2 for autumn this year. The Referendum Framework Bill went through Holyrood and has Royal Assent. The Electoral Commission were asked to comment on the question. So the necessary steps were put in place. Then along came Covid-19. NS withdrew the proposal.

  146. Beaker says:

    Clapper57 says:
    10 July, 2020 at 1:58 pm
    “but they, English students, also have to pay fees at English Universities as do Scots at English Universities……so what to do…eh”

    Scottish students can apply to SAAS to cover their tuition fees if studying in England, provided the course meets SAAS requirements. There are some exceptions for particular courses, but the overwhelming majority will get their fees paid.

  147. Oscar says:


    You also want Sturgeon to stay in place.

    Meaning Sturgeon will push through her hated GRA and Crime Bills.

    So when offences against women and girls start to Increase in these female only places, we can turn to Capella and Co and say,,,it was you who fully supported Sturgeon and it was you who created the situation for these offences to be committed.

    I hope you sleep well Capella and Co.

  148. Rm says:

    After this virus pandemic starts closing down a bit, I’m hoping Nicola Sturgeon starts putting the effort into Scotland’s Independence just as she’s put the effort into controlling this virus, if she does it won’t be long till the union has ended, if she doesn’t then we’ll all know we’ve been led along the wrong path. Don’t know why they couldn’t do them both at the same time and keep Scotland in Europe as well, there’s plenty MPs and msps nae doing a lot, working towards Independence that’s what they were voted in for, and all this thing about transvestites probably most people have never met one there’s probably no more than 30 or 40 if that in the whole of Scotland, people are starting to wonder how this politicians are living their lives, definitely nae like most folk, we need to get real people in charge.

  149. callmedave says:

    Dovering in the early parts of radio shortbread news this morning but my ears pricked up as I heard about a court ruling in Oklahoma and Tulsa.

    Finally got round to it and found this:


    Landmark Supreme Court Ruling Affirms Native American Rights in Oklahoma

  150. CameronB Brodie says:

    schrodingers cat
    Do your politics still lack a respect for morality and the rule-of-law?

  151. ahundredthidiot says:


    ‘there is a deadly pandemic’


    The UK recorded an additional 44,000 excess deaths over a twelve week period last 2 weeks of 2014, first ten weeks of 2015.
    Mortuaries were overwhelmed, wards turned into temp body storage, services at breaking point – life went on.

    2020 – similar number of excess deaths over a slightly longer period of around 16 weeks – all dealt with withing business as usual. End of life as we know it and the ‘new normal’ that covid nazis like saying.

    This week, Scotlands deaths are UNDER the 5 year weekly average.

    Deadly my arse – a healthy person has more chance of dying from a lightning strike.

    But on your point about NS not wanting to take advantage of the ‘situation’ then fair enough………but there’s enough hysteria without you adding to it.

    Deadly……..oh, how I laughed. You’ve been watching too much MSM.

  152. Oscar says:

    BBC News reader,,,

    “And today is the anniversary of the start of the Battle of Bri…”

    Switched,,,before the bastard told me of yet ANOTHER anniversary regarding england, Hitler and and Second World War.

    Fuck Off BBC with your anniversaries of engerland and WW2 and your Cricket.

  153. Ron Maclean says:

    Playing a blinder? At the end of the day what this must win-game needs is a goal. Despite a hatful of chances and a catalogue of errors there are far too many back passes while the bus is being parked. Time the boss faced the axe.

  154. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland lacks a constitutional backstop as security against Brexit, and is threatened with the introduction of genderwoowoo, because those in positions of power do not understand the law, though they appear keen to reshape Scotland in an image that pleases them. Even though this re-imagination does not support open democracy.

    Nomology, Ontology, and Phenomenology of Law and Technology

  155. Gary45% says:

    Oscar DelaRentaYoon, as popular a fragrance as Midnight in Fishcross
    Keep trying to divide, your failing badly so far.

  156. Republicofscotland says:

    Clapper@ 1.58pm.

    On university fees, the Scottish government has announced that it will end free university tuition for EU students post 2021/22. It’s to do with Brexit and the risk of a legal challenge possibly from Westminster.

  157. Clapper57 says:

    @ Beaker @ 2.39pm

    Hi Beaker my son’s course must have been one of those that was an exception because we had to pay his tuition fees when he went to Hull University. ( not recently I hasten to add ).

    Thanks for correction.

    Have a nice day

  158. Effijy says:

    Just read a letter received by my elderly Mum
    From our NHS.

    She has been receiving treatment for a number of
    Years and has to have regular check ups at hospital.

    These have been suspended but the letter advises that
    The Doctor will call her rather than meet face to face?

    So pubs, cinemas, dentists etc will all be opened when
    The appointment should take place?

    They normally check blood pressure, a blood sample, listen
    To her chest and her pulse but that seems to have been replaced
    With how are you feeling?

    She isn’t well so what are they going to propose next, a Video conference call?

  159. Lothianlad says:

    BBC definitely going all guns with the brit nat propaganda. Notice how many times also, no matter what programme, there is always a picture of the butchers apron prominently in view, on All networks.

    This started to happen much more just after the SNP won the first Scottish election in 2007.

    Then came the number of times the word Britain could be added to the programme titles. BGT, Britain’s best homes, Britain’s best hairdresser, britains best sink etc….

    All part of the psychological warfare. I noticed that the Saltire at a local school has been taken down, but the butchers apron beside it is still flying. I will be writing to the school and my local SNP councillor regarding this.

    Prior to 2014 the team GB crap was pushed to the maximum, but what’s almost pleasing about their desperation now is, they are harping back to the past more and more. Lets face it, there is nothing positive they can spin for the future.

    By default, they are highlighting the past and passing of the UK. A small silver lining whilst were stick in no mans land.
    ‘we’ll meet again’…. naw, Aufwiedersein Pet!!

  160. Republicofscotland says:

    Kenny MacAskill has caused a stooshie within the SNP after subtly suggesting that Scottish independence supporters should give their list votes to another independence party other than the SNP, well done MacAskill, lets get the Frasers and Wells out of Holyrood.

    Meanwhile Alex Neil has said that a independence referendum will take place ( not might or could or should) within a year of the SNP winning a majority of seats at next years elections, with or without Johnsons approval.

    Two points here how does Neil know this? And two is Neil just pushing SNP propaganda so that the voters will give them their list votes as well?

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    British nationalism and genderwoowoo are both incompatible with a quantum approach to the law, which means they are incapable of being sensitive to the bio-neurological property of individuals living in Scotland, a.k.a. Scotland’s public consciousness. Simples. 🙂

    Full text.

    Manuscrito vol.34 no.2 Campinas jul./dez. 2011
    The transcendence of time in the epistemology of observation from a phenomenological standpoint

  162. Clapper57 says:

    @ Republicofscotland @ 3.14pm

    Hi RPScotland, yes I heard that.

    Have a nice day

  163. CameronB Brodie says:

    That was me trying to provide an insight into a phenomenological approach to law Rev., which provides insight into subjective consciousness, the transcendence of time, and the co-constitutive of physical reality. As you do. 😉

  164. Republicofscotland says:

    It looks like things might be coming to a head between Holyrood and Westminster as the Scottish government looks set to defy Westminsters proposed post Brexit legislation.

    Powers coming back from the EU look likely to be seized by Westminster, powers with many aspects already devolved on the likes of food safety agricultural etc. The Tory branch manager in Scotland Jackson Carlaw has said that Westminster is absolutely right to seize those powers.

    If Westminster prevails here, we’ll have not only set the standard for defending our food standards or environmental protections or animal welfare. But we’ll have led the Tory government to believe that nullifying Holyrood will not be as difficult as they first thought.

    Holyrood is where our powers lie, not Westminster, our government must show that it is strong when it comes to defending the rights of our people whatever they may be.

  165. Lothianlad says:

    Republic of Scotland,
    Re MacAskill,

    That’s a positive step forward if Kenny is saying that. As Stu posted earlier, we could possibly get dozens of Independence supporting MSPs elected.

    Also Interesting what Alex Neil is saying. Another mandate with ‘both votes SNP’?

    I’m all for a Pro Independence list party Led By Alex Salmond!

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry….co-constitutive nature of physical reality….

    Phenomenological structuralism: a structurationist theory of human action

  167. Republicofscotland says:

    Lothianlad@ 3.37pm.

    Yeah, I read somewhere that roughly a million list votes for the SNP only produced four seats at Holyrood for them, why waste so many list votes on the SNP when you could give them to another independence minded party at Holyrood, such as the ISP or the Greens ( though they’re ultra woke) or even a Alex Salmond led party if Alex is still up for it.

  168. OldPete says:

    Polls on 54% sustained support for ScottishIndependence.
    Next years Scottish elections should be fought with Independence as the issue no ifs or buts.

  169. Dan says:

    @Capella at 2:37 pm

    So it’s not so much “Scotland’s Future in Scotland’s Hands”, more “Scotland’s Future Yet Again Being Determined By Outside Influences”.
    Westminster seems to have no problem with progressing their “Brexit” during “a deadly pandemic” and one might have hoped Scotland could at least have put a spanner in the works to frustrate or stall the process of having our powers, rights, and resources removed or negotiated away by assholes on the Thames we did not elect.

  170. Republicofscotland says:

    “Have a nice day”


    You too???????

  171. Scozzie says:

    Schrodingers Cat @ 2.18pm
    What’s the blinder that Nicola’s playing?

    She’s blind to the frustration of some of us independence supporters. She’s blind to those opposed to GRA. She’s blind to those opposed to the hate crime bill.

    But what’s the blinder she’s playing – how has she out manoeuvred the UK government?

    Please don’t quote the 54% polls, we’re 10 months out an election and 6 months out of being dragged out the EU.

    How will people feel when the SNP have rolled over with a whimper on 1st January 2021 (much like 31st Jan 2020)?

    Or does she have a secret plan, keeping her powder dry, not interrupting the enemy while making a mistake yada, yada, cliche, cliche….

  172. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland’s lack of a constitutional backstop, is all the evidence you need that the Scottish government has no interest in looking outside British constitutional convention, and so is inadequate to the task of defending Scottish culture from expansionist English nationalism.

    The Ontology, Epistemology, and Axiology of
    Social and Racial Justice Educators: An Untapped
    Resource to Address the Unequal Educational
    Outcomes for Students of Color and Other Nondominant

  173. Dogbiscuit says:

    The usual lunacy from the transvestites. Why do they all look like Dick Emery?
    For anyone interested in why we are really being manipulated and controlled by our Governments check out Amazing Polly on YouTube.Her video on Amnesty Internationals definition of torture is enlightening.

  174. callmedave says:

    Official UK total daily deaths are in on big Auntie news.

    Is a pattern forming:

    Scotland …………..00……..Total….2490…BBC
    N. Ireland…….today……..00……..Total…..554…BBC

    The BBC don’t give out or post England only figures but the SUN and the Daily MAIL do.. Why not BBC?

  175. Scozzie says:

    RepublicofScotland @ 3.26pm
    Within 1 year of an SNP win? They are taking the fucking piss out of us.

    What happened to the referendum that was promised at the end of this parliamentary term if we were taken out the EU against our will? Or why not make the HR election a plebiscite on independence? These guys are taking us for chumps.

    What happened to the multiple mandates we’ve already accrued?

    I am so furious with the SNP. They have no clue just want to win elections and treat the people as voting fodder – ‘yes plebs, we’ll give you a vote on independence (mibbies) but only after we win another 5 year election term’

    These feckers need held to account on their current election manifesto.

  176. Dogbiscuit says:

    The cutting back of Emergency rooms in NHS is a scandal and a prelude to privatisation.Oh !Did ‘Nicola ‘ not tell you? Scotland’s health service will be privatised .Parts of it already are. Waiting lists are magically shortened by slinging people onto private waiting lists.Government in Scotland is flanneling us .

  177. Dogbiscuit says:

    Sturgeon said nothing when SNHS procurement system was hijacked by Theresa May. So obviously FM is OK with privatised procurement for SNHS.
    Why are so many health workers ignorant about politics?

  178. Name (required) says:

    the plot has been lost,

    if anyone finds it please report back asap.

    its not only the snp that is forcing folks to look elsewhere.

  179. Dogbiscuit says:

    Hello to everybody in sunny Niddrie today .Stay human comrades.Don’t fall for Government propaganda.

  180. Alec Lomax says:

    When’s this new Independence Party starting up ? Or is this all talk?

  181. Kenny says:

    I think being woke is a win-win situation for the FM.

    Just like shouting “no more tories” on the eve of indyref1 when there were BBC cameras near her (despite her approval of Hillary, Kissinger, etc, hardly non-tories), the ridiculousness of GRA is her “get out of indyred win” card.

    I think she also believes this will get her into the company of the A-list politicians (think Trudeau). But I do not think the world works this way. May, Cameron – they are all the types to be invited into this club. It is not being woke as being able to get money moved for people through influence that counts.

    It is funny. She bangs on about Brexit (which was a referendum decision) and tried to overturn the vote in two other nations (when she should have been focused on indy). Yet she does zero to actually change things in her own country over leaving the EU.

    She is superficially woke. The very day she went on some international online Pride event, a lesbian was murdered in another country. This was not mentioned at all on her twitter feed, just about how much she wants to defend gay rights.

    I honestly think she is a gift to unionism, but I do not think she herself realises to what an extent.

    Personally, I never understood why Salmond resigned in 2014. He took Scotland to 45% voting for indy in the face of the whole world and the BBC telling us to vote No (with a majority of native Scots, young fowk and our largest city saying they want to be independent).

    This was like Scotland losing in the final of the World Cup. Why would your manager then resign? Surely he would stay on and say: “In four years’ time, we will be back… and we will go that extra length and win the trophy!”

  182. Effijy says:

    I notice the English newspapers pretending to serve the UK
    Are show R maps with the rates of Covid infections.

    The Labour Mirror and Tory Express and Metro all show maps
    With a blank area just North of their border that doesn’t exist?

    Obviously Scotland is doing very significantly better than England
    So that cannot be put in print.

  183. jfngw says:


    Is that Niddrie Mains, Niddrie Mill or Niddrie Marischal or the posh bit that had itself renamed Duddingston Park South (Niddrie Road was just too common).

  184. Capella says:

    @ Dan – “Scotland’s Future Yet Again Being Determined By Outside Influences” – You’re right. Westminster is carrying on negotiating, or not, BREXIT. They are not organising a referendum nor an election. Meanwhile a lot of English people are dying – the highest death rate in the world.
    That’s the status quo. That’s what the sovereign Scottish people have to determine to overturn.
    Are we there yet?

    Craig Murray thinks it will come to a showdown. Are you ready for the barricades?

  185. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    why not make the HR election a plebiscite on independence?


    fukcin’ great idea… wish i’d thought of it

  186. twathater says:

    @ Lothian Lad 3.17pm yes I noticed that article by Alex Neil in the national , so it’s back to more promised dream clouds from the SNP , give us ANOTHER mandate and we promise (fingers crossed) we will definately (maybe) hold a indy ref in a couple of years , it doesn’t matter if he was given permission to say this or not or by whom , it is just more CONTEMPT and lies to keep their cushy numbers and wages

    Then we have SC coming back on posting another of his SNP PARTY POLITICAL BROADCASTS as he has done for weeks , Nicola is playing a blinder the SNP are at 53 or is it 54 or maybe 55% in the polls , what is it going to take for people to waken up and realise they are getting the PISH ripped out of them , allegiance and loyalty are one thing self harming is a mental illness

  187. Scozzie says:

    Schrodinger’s Cat @ 5.11pm
    Well doesn’t seem like the beloved SNP are thinking of that!
    So back to the NS blinder – what it is?

  188. Scozzie says:

    SC @ 5.11PM
    PS: Some of us have been advocating for the HR election to be a plebiscite since the Brexit fiasco (and at the time getting ridiculed for it)mhaving read the runes that a referendum was as likely as Boris showing some intelligence.
    So don’t make out it’s some light-bulb moment you’ve brought to the table.

  189. twathater says:

    @ Scozzie 4.00pm very well said scozzie thank feck we’re not all drones worshipping at the great messiahs feet , some on here can see the ongoing con being perpetrated on the PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND , our hopes and dreams of a better country for our children , grandchildren and future generations being sacrificed and destroyed by a cabal of sexual deviants whose ONLY interests are their sexual domination of REAL women

  190. Sandy says:

    This blog is for trolls. If only someone could construct a computer that would emit smells…..

  191. Pete says:

    To add to your assessment of this deadly pandemic, I could add that in 1968/69 we had Spanish flu which caused 80000 deaths (in a much lower UK population) and there was none of this nonsense.
    I was admonished in a shop today for not being muzzled. The police state is well and truly in good order.
    How can Scotland ever aspire to being an independent country when its citizens are so supine and lacking in independent thought?
    Very discouraging!!

  192. CameronB Brodie says:

    Constitutionalism ain’t liberal if it is detached from Natural Law and denies the potential for epistemic justice to occur (see Brexitania). Democracy and womanhood are both cultural institutions worthy of defending, IMHO, so here’s some social epistemology. Full text.

    John Christman. Comments on Elizabeth Anderson, “Epistemic Justice as a Virtue of Social Institutions”
    ….Recall the distinction between these two forms of epistemic injustice. Testimonial injustice involves a wrong done to a person when she is unfairly excluded or downgraded as a credible source of knowledge. Hermeneutic injustice, on the other hand, involves the wrong done to a person when the dominant discourse of a society lacks the crucial vocabulary with which a person can express her interests (and the wrong done to her when those interests are significantly set back).

    The primary example Fricker uses for this is the experience of what we would now call sexual harassment in an age before such treatment was (properly) identified for what it was. (Picture a typical episode of the TV show Mad Men.) As Fricker claims and Anderson reiterates, hermeneutic injustice is always structural, in that it is a product of collective social practices and institutional vocabularies not the interaction between individuals at the “local” level.

  193. Bill McLean says:

    Oscar at 0253 – interesting to find out who the most successful pilots in the Battle of Britain were! And it’s kept quiet! For their reward they were not allowed by Churchill to march in the victory parade!

  194. Beaker says:

    @Clapper57 says:
    10 July, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    I wasn’t trying to be pedantic, but I do like to make sure we have the right facts.

    I was having a nice day, then came on just now to see the COVID-denial idiot has returned 🙂

  195. Ron Maclean says:


    To be fair the lad’s giving 110%.

  196. Scozzie says:

    Sandy @ 5.31pm
    Trolls, concern trolls, 77th, green ink yada yada….

    Maybe this site is just full of normal people hacked of with the SNP sycophants, believers, party faithful, easily led, hard of thinking, TRA cultists, easily offended, can’t see the wood for the trees lap dogs.

    But as long as NS is playing a blinder…not one that the faithful can explain in logical terms; then keep on keeping on!

  197. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Has anyone ever seen any btl comments here from trans rights activists?

    Even one?

    I don’t remember seeing any.

    And this is the leading Scottish politics blog. So why won’t they come here to promote/defend their position?

  198. Sandy says:

    Further to 5.31pm

    And not bereft of bloody idiots.

  199. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    10 July, 2020 at 5:27 pm
    SC @ 5.11PM
    PS: Some of us have been advocating for the HR election to be a plebiscite since the Brexit fiasco (and at the time getting ridiculed for it)
    really? show me

    schrodingers cat says:
    18 April, 2019 at 9:52 pm
    Robert J. Sutherland says:
    I hae ma doots about a strategy that is dependent on getting 50%+1 of votes in any conventional multipolar election, if that’s what you are saying, because the BritNat opposition will inevitably turn their majoritanianism on its head and argue that it needs to be 50% of the registered electorate. So just as in 1979, the disengaged and the dead will vote.

    we got 49.5% in 2015

    we need 50%+1 of all votes cast whether that is in an election or a ref, whatever comes first.

    we have no mandate for indy until we do

    you may be right that wm may try to move the goalposts but that is a bridge that we will cross if it ever happens


    schrodingers cat says:
    27 April, 2019 at 4:22 pm
    WGD:- ‘Things which are predictable.’

    ..”In any event, there is absolutely no legal prohibition on pro-independence parties turning any future Scottish election into a de-facto referendum on independence

    been saying this for weeks. it seems so obvious, the only way to win indy is by a majority in a plebicite, whether that is by a referendum or an election is irrelevent


    schrodingers cat says:
    17 April, 2019 at 3:07 am
    i understand very well the concept of a sovereign nation deciding its on fate

    but while only 45% of the people wish to become independent, it is the sovereign will of the people of scotland to remain in the uk.

    talk of user level etc sounds poetic but is short on actual detail.

    i merely pointed out that the actions of the london parties is damaging and will continue to damage the support base for the unionists in scotland. this is self evident the only question is by how much?

    i believe it will push support above 50%

    so we wait for the unionists to finally take a position on brexit and publish it in their manifestos.

    and then we change tact. the snp can put independence at the heart of their manifesto





    the main thrust of the unionist argument against indy is that most people dont want indy or indyref2

    if the snp gain more than 50% in the ge, then we wont need a s30 or indyref2. what would be the point after such a result?

    it is fairly certain the snp will win a majority of seats in scotland but might not win 50% of the vote. no matter, we can still pursue a s30 in westminster and the courts.

    at any time the polls show support for indy climbing above 50% we can dissolve holyrood and re run the same manifesto.

    in fact, from now on, this will be the snp position until we do win over 50% of the vote.

    at which point, we can point to the result and say

    “independence is the sovereign will of the people of scotland”

    schrodingers cat says:
    29 October, 2019 at 12:24 pm
    being saying this for months

    they can try and stop referendums but they cant stop elections?

    every vote from now on, whether a referendum or election will be fought on this ticket until we get 50%+1

    it is fairly certain the snp will win a majority of seats in scotland but might not win 50% of the vote. no matter, we can still pursue a s30 in westminster and the courts.

    at any time the polls show support for indy climbing above 50% we can dissolve holyrood and re run the same manifesto.

    in fact, from now on, this will be the snp position until we do win over 50% of the vote.

  200. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    10 July, 2020 at 5:19 pm
    Schrodinger’s Cat @ 5.11pm
    Well doesn’t seem like the beloved SNP are thinking of that!
    So back to the NS blinder – what it is?

    nicola is winning over the nos to yes, this 50%+ of votes is the mandate we need, not indyref2 s30, even with a s30, we still need 50%+ of the vote

    this has always been her strategy and it is working

  201. schrodingers cat says:

    And this is the leading Scottish politics blog.

    is it? stu hasnt posted site hit stats for a while.

    with all of the “nicola ate my hamster” shit on here, a lot of wingers have disappeared. the 77th trolls out number the indy supporters by a fair margin

  202. schrodingers cat says:

    actual trans are a vanishing small number of people ianbh

    the rest of the yes movement isnt that bothered about it, not something that is brought up on the snp and yes constituency facebook pages

  203. Clapper57 says:

    @ Beaker @ 5.43pm

    No problem…I know you were not being pedantic…and agree facts are best….me ruddy son still had to pay his fees though..Lol


  204. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:

    Maybe this site is just full of normal people

    Maybe normal people are not fixated by CWD’s?

  205. schrodingers cat says:

    Scozzie says:
    So don’t make out it’s some light-bulb moment you’ve brought to the table.

    perhaps others have, i havent seen them but its not beyond possible

    but for the last few weeks it has been me who has been pushing for a holyrood election to be made an independence plebiscite. and it has begun to gain traction on social media

    oh and by the way, i have been getting ridiculed for it but feel free to posting a link to where you made this suggestion in 2016?

  206. twathater says:

    SC i’m sick of listening to your “maybe normal people are not fixated by the CWD brigade ” so you’re denigrating genuine independence supporters who are highlighting your Messiah’s inability or deliberate avoidence to deal with these lunatic policies and the OBVIOUS DANGER it poses to the quest for independence , so women and their supporters should just accept their subjugation to these lunatics and suck it up for indy Good luck with that attitude

  207. CameronB Brodie says:

    The cat appears to be an individual who lacks respect for gender equality, and empty of concerned for the ongoing transformation of Scots law. He has admitted to holding the rule-of-law in contempt and thinks morals are a fantasy. The cat has also painted me as some sort of religious loony for trying to defend Scotland through science, ethics, and law. Despicable me, eh?

  208. schrodingers cat says:

    the only folk i see ranting about it are folk here

    the rest of the population doesnt care

  209. schrodingers cat says:

    The cat has also painted me as some sort of religious loony

    by your actions ye shall be known

  210. CameronB Brodie says:

    schrodingers cat
    Jog on.

    Epistemic Injustice and Phenomenology

  211. schrodingers cat says:

    twathater says:
    10 July, 2020 at 6:36 pm
    SC i’m sick of listening to you

    then scroll past, no one is forcing you to read my posts

    this is stu’s advise

  212. twathater says:

    Ah SC back to your infantile boabyhater name calling you are obviously spending too much time in your NS is the Messiah bubble , take a wee trip to other blogs and twitter and you will see how ANGRY people are with NS and her shite policies

  213. Capella says:

    So angry that her rating is + 60 and the SNP on 54%.

  214. Ahundredthidiot says:


    Just scroll past the loonball, him/her and the resident loonball academic

  215. schrodingers cat says:


    NS is the Messiah

    what are you? a 6 year old? gie yer head a wobble

  216. Dan says:

    A result for journalists working in public interest.

  217. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    I admire your optimism.

    Did you read Kerevan’s piece on If so, and you commented, I missed your reaction. If you haven’t, here it is:

    Kerevan may be typical of the Yessers you know insofar as he makes no mention of the TRA. However, the Yessers I know are very aware of the issue, can see the damage it’s doing to the SNP/SG, and are not prepared to let it go unchallenged.

    The ‘no debate’ line punted by Patrick Harvie and others is not sustainable – how can any of the TRAs who are getting elected to positions of authority within the SNP answer legitimate questions when the clear tactic employed by their fellow travellers is to trash any and all criticism of their ‘argument’?

    I ask again – where are the TRA proponents, and why won’t they come here to state their case? (And btw, if this is no longer the biggest blog in Scottish politics, what is?)

  218. schrodingers cat says:


    I have it on good authority that this gra legislation is about to be scrapped. it wont win approval in the commitee or on the floor.

    its unworkable

  219. schrodingers cat says:

    if this is no longer the biggest blog in Scottish politics, what is?)

    i think craig murray was level pegging with wos the last time i saw any stats. a while back, granted

  220. schrodingers cat says:

    Capella says:
    So angry that her rating is + 60 and the SNP on 54%.

    YES on 54%. SNP on 55%. 🙂

  221. Dan says:

    schrodingers cat says: at 7:04 pm

    I have it on good authority that this gra legislation is about to be scrapped. it wont win approval in the commitee or on the floor.

    its unworkable

    Ahh, so maybe all the discussion on here and elsewhere was actually worthwhile, as it enlightened folk to the reality of denying reality.

  222. Lochside says:

    Kenny says:

    ‘Personally, I never understood why Salmond resigned in 2014. He took Scotland to 45% voting for indy in the face of the whole world and the BBC telling us to vote No (with a majority of native Scots, young fowk and our largest city saying they want to be independent).

    This was like Scotland losing in the final of the World Cup. Why would your manager then resign? Surely he would stay on and say: “In four years’ time, we will be back… and we will go that extra length and win the trophy!”

    Yeah…just think about that….. at the crest of a mountain top of support…faced with the simple job of dismantling a numbnut like Darling he stumbles and crashes on Currency ffs…then capitulation in the face of purdah breaches etc. Then when it seems all ok to pose as a pain in Westminster’s arse again…boom..they come for him the ‘alphabet sisters’ and the whole Britnat deep state..while his ‘protege’ leads us head first into the ‘Stop Brexit for Britain’ brickwall.

    Make what you want of that people and felines.

  223. schrodingers cat says:


    maybe thats true, but i think that although brought forward with the best intentions to clarify the rights of hermaphrodites and trans etc, it failed to protect the rights of those potentially targeted by people who wish to take advantage of the new laws.

  224. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @SC –

    Well, fair enough – I hope your ‘good authority’ is right.


  225. CameronB Brodie says:

    The fact that genderwoowoo has gained the support it has, and the ideological dominance it now projects, poses a serious threat to diversity and the substantive legal rights of all individuals.

    Epistemic Injustice

  226. Fireproofjim says:

    It wasn’t just the discussions on Wings that have lead to the scrapping of the GRA nonsense. I believe many people (like me) wrote directly to their MSP and MP to question the whole sorry business.
    On a recent Zoom discussion hosted by Alyn Smith he said there was no chance of any such legislation being brought forward in this Parliament session.
    Keep complaining to the SNP if you disagree with policy. It is best to go direct to the party. It may just work.

  227. Beaker says:

    @Ian Brotherhood says:
    10 July, 2020 at 5:57 pm
    “Has anyone ever seen any btl comments here from trans rights activists?
    And this is the leading Scottish politics blog. So why won’t they come here to promote/defend their position?”

    Given what they post on Twitter, I think that words containing more than one syllable confuses them.

  228. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    HI Alec Lomax at 4:37 pm.

    You asked,
    “When’s this new Independence Party starting up ? Or is this all talk?”

    You’re not really reading everything on this blog every day, iye? The party is already registered with the Electoral Commission.

  229. Capella says:

    It’s not scrapped yet.

    @ SC – 55% eh. There’s an awful lot of very angry people out there. Mostly unionists though.

  230. Dan says:


    Aye, that’s why I said “here and elsewhere”. 😉
    Maybe all the chat on here and other sites, poll question responses, in addition to the many emails, letters, and conversations folk have sent and had regarding the subject accrued to the point it was impossible to ignore.


    Always good to point out to supposedly Pro-Indy politicians that presumably want Scotland to return to being an independent nation state so we won’t have to endure policies forced on us we don’t want… that forcing policies on us we don’t want is a bit of a shit way to market yersels.

    Here’s mare readin’ for youse aw.

  231. bipod says:

    So first it was about “protecting the NHS” and “flattening the curve” then it was about stopping the mythical second wave/peak that never materialized anywhere and now its about eradicating the virus, which is a ridiculous goal that is going to trash this nation. Dithering nicola was desparate to make something out of the Leicester “second wave” scam, she has been awfully silent about that since it was revealed that the “second wave” happened to coincide with a massive increase in testing in the area and the cases had already started falling before the local lockdown was imposed, the “second wave” there curiously hasn’t produced an increase in hospitalizations.

    Just a few reminders. There still isn’t a jot of evidence to prove that “lockdown” suppressed the virus or saved a single life. The second wave is still a myth. The virus is no more dangerous than the flu for working aged people, even less so for children, and it only becomes slightly more dangerous than the flu for older folks. The colossal economic damage being done by nicolas anti-scientific indefinite lockdown and farcical social distancing policies dwarfs the supposed impact of the virus, and is against the precautionary principle.

  232. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dogbiscuit at 4:34 pm

    You opined,
    “Sturgeon said nothing when SNHS procurement system was hijacked by Theresa May. So obviously FM is OK with privatised procurement for SNHS.
    Why are so many health workers ignorant about politics?”

    You realise you’re gibberin’ Braille? (Apologies to the unsighted.)

    From the web site below…

    “National Procurement (NP) is the Procurement and Logistics Directorate within Procurement, Commissioning and Facilities (PCF)? a Strategic Business Unit of NHS National Services Scotland”

    What caused you to invent the story that Theresa May privatised it? What did she have to do with NHS Scotland, which has always been an autonomous organisation, under the control of the Scottish Government?

    Try again…

  233. Dogbiscuit says:

    Oscar and his silly English hobby horse.

  234. Dogbiscuit says:

    CBB Procurement was taken back by Tories when powers from Europe were arrogated by London.You know what I’m talking about .Stop shilling for Sturgeon.
    Dr Phillips Whitford gave a series of public talks on the subject a few years ago.I watched them on YouTube.

  235. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi bipod at 8:04 pm

    You offered various opinions…

    “…then it was about stopping the mythical second wave/peak that never materialized anywhere…
    Dithering nicola was desparate [Sic] to make something out of the Leicester “second wave” scam…
    The second wave is still a myth.”

    You must get all your news from Plantation Quay, iye?
    You don’t really dip into INTERNATIONAL news, do you?

    Educate yourself, or hold back on your gibbering…

  236. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m pretty sure you do not understand the precautionary principle and that you are hostile to it, so please stop making daft claims. There is a serious threat to public health that needs effective management, if we want a quick return to normality. You wouldn’t be making such daft claims if you had a genuine concern for public health, and weren’t so keen to place the interests of public health in the hands of the market. That’s exactly what shaped the clown-shoes Tory response to covid-19, and that;s turned out well eh?

    Resisting Structural Epistemic Injustice

  237. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Stop shilling for Sturgeon.”

    Are you on the correct meds today? 😉

  238. Dogbiscuit says:

    I’ve dipped into Nigerian News and they are being subjected just like us. The coordinated approach adopted by most Governments stinks of highly centralised power dictating to our leaders who are of course on board with the covid scam.
    The Government uses citizens to police each other.

  239. Dogbiscuit says:

    It’s strange that the Swedish Greens have also adopted a no debate stance on certain policies.

  240. CameronB Brodie says:

    If it hasn’t been clear where the biscuit is coming from, I hope it is now.

    FILOSOFIJA. SOCIOLOGIJA. 2020. T. 31. Nr. 3, p. 217–224
    Epistemic Injustice and Scientific Knowledge Distribution

  241. Dogbiscuit says:

    jfngw the renamed road you refer to was Bingham Way if I recall correctly. The half dead cat is unsurprisingly animated. Take more catnip Firkin.

  242. Dogbiscuit says:

    Cameron surely you are the last person to make jokes about ‘meds’?
    If you want a full on cyber dogfight I’m just in the mood for conformist fools such as yourself.

  243. bipod says:

    Sorry Brian, I don’t know what news you have been watching but dithering nicola has become a darling of the lockdown fanatic UK media these past few months.

    When was the last time you ever heard anyone in the MSM question her lockdown strategy. All I see is stuff about how great and cautious she is.

  244. Dogbiscuit says:

    The trans issue is part of the wider malaise in world politics which is deliberately inflicted upon us.

  245. Dogbiscuit says:

    Briandoonthetoon clearly recurved his news indoctrination from MSM. He believes in the power of covid 19 to strike mercilessly anywhere anytime because the media is pumped full of fear porn.Come on people you know better than that or you’re a Government shill a stool pigeon.
    You come on line to keep us in line.

  246. CameronB Brodie says:

    Want a square, cyber, go? Pick yourself up from this them.

    Epistemic network injustice

    To find out what is in one’s own best interest, it is helpful to ask one’s epistemic peers. However, identifying one’s epistemic peers is not a trivial task. I consider a stylized political setting, an electoral competition of ‘Masses’ and ‘Elites’.

    To succeed, the Masses need to know which alternative on offer is truly in their interest. To find out, the Masses can pool their privately held information in a pre-election ballot, provided that they can reliably find out with whom they should pool information.

    I investigate the process of finding the relevant peer group for information pooling by modelling this group formation process as dynamic network change. The simulations show that the Masses can succeed in finding the right peers, but they also suggest reasons why the Elites may often be more successful.

    This phenomenon generalizes to the notion of Epistemic Network Injustice. Such injustice arises when a subset of citizens is systematically deprived of connections to helpful epistemic peers, leading to their reduced political influence. Epistemic Network Injustice is a new form of epistemic injustice, related to but distinct from the notion introduced by Miranda Fricker.

    solidarity, Condorcet’s jury theorem, networks, information aggregation, epistemic democracy, epistemic injustice

  247. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    There are some absolute haverers on here today.

    I think I will reacquaint myself with Mr Do! for the next few hours…

  248. CameronB Brodie says:

    As that was only an abstract.

    Epistemic Network Injustice

  249. Davie Oga says:


    Nigeria is in trouble with the virus. I’m aware of several otherwise healthy people who have died from the virus in Lagos in the last month. Many more people are going to die, despite the best efforts of the federal and state govt.

  250. twathater says:

    Capella @ 6.56pm Can I ask if that comment was aimed at me or was it just in support of SC’s interminable 53 or 54 or 55% support
    So angry that her rating is + 60 and the SNP on 54%.
    As you yourself have intimated there is a long way to go b4 the next HR election and you have also been critical of both the GRA amendments and the Hate Crime Bill where EVERYONE’S free speech is at risk , I have stated openly and forcefully that I fully support the real women’s fight to retain their dignity and to protect their hard fought for freedoms in the face of these harmful policies and deranged deviants ,unlike SC and others who have indicated that women should shush for indy and that it isn’t important in the scale of things

    At the outset you stated as did others no longer on this site that you would maintain a watching brief and base your decision on future outcomes , that is your right as is mine to attempt to highlight to others the extreme danger these regressive policies will make to the independence support

    There is so much talk of the division that is happening within the indy movement at present , that is absolute rubbish , the division that is happening is with SNP diehards insisting that all is well and that NS approval rating is evidence that indy is over the line which anyone with a brain knows is far from true

  251. jfngw says:


    Nope, it was Niddrie Road, renamed around 1970. I lived about 300 yards from it at the time and drank in the pub (Marischal Arms, now a supermarket) that was just down from the crossroads at the Wisp.

  252. PacMan says:

    bipod says: 10 July, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    So first it was about “protecting the NHS” and “flattening the curve” then it was about stopping the mythical second wave/peak that never materialized anywhere and now its about eradicating the virus, which is a ridiculous goal that is going to trash this nation. Dithering nicola was desparate to make something out of the Leicester “second wave” scam, she has been awfully silent about that since it was revealed that the “second wave” happened to coincide with a massive increase in testing in the area and the cases had already started falling before the local lockdown was imposed, the “second wave” there curiously hasn’t produced an increase in hospitalizations.

    Just a few reminders. There still isn’t a jot of evidence to prove that “lockdown” suppressed the virus or saved a single life. The second wave is still a myth. The virus is no more dangerous than the flu for working aged people, even less so for children, and it only becomes slightly more dangerous than the flu for older folks. The colossal economic damage being done by nicolas anti-scientific indefinite lockdown and farcical social distancing policies dwarfs the supposed impact of the virus, and is against the precautionary principle.

    There is only one word I have to say to you.

    P!SS OFF.

  253. Beaker says:

    Trouble in Glasgow. 2 SNP councillors have resigned – Michael Cullen has been charged by police – he denies the allegation. And Elspeth Kerr has also resigned from the SNP, apparently in protest that the SNP asked Cullen to step aside while proceedings are in place.

    She says “that the SNP had “been taken over by middle class career politicians”.

    What the fuck is going on?

  254. mike cassidy says:

    A link for the Bipod Brigade who think it was only flu+.

    Yeah, right.

  255. call me dave says:

    SNP councillors quit after one charged by police

  256. PacMan says:

    Dogbiscuit says: 10 July, 2020 at 8:47 pm

    The trans issue is part of the wider malaise in world politics which is deliberately inflicted upon us.

    There is no doubt that the trans issue is entryism to influence an issue with goes against that of those who believe in independence. There is no doubt that the trans issue is an ‘enabler’ for those to progress in the SNP, and therefore into the government of Scotland, again whether those individuals believe in independence or not. There is no doubt that there are those who will use the trans issue to further themselves regardless of whether they believe in that issue or independence.

    The question is whether grass root supporters that inhabit this website and others can reconcile the difference between the fundamental right of every individual to live the right the way they want to choose which can be debated sensibly which I would like to think every supporter of independence would agree to than that of those chancers who will use this issue to further their own purposes?

  257. PacMan says:

    Beaker says: 10 July, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    Trouble in Glasgow. 2 SNP councillors have resigned – Michael Cullen has been charged by police – he denies the allegation. And Elspeth Kerr has also resigned from the SNP, apparently in protest that the SNP asked Cullen to step aside while proceedings are in place.

    She says “that the SNP had “been taken over by middle class career politicians”.

    What the fuck is going on?

    There is no doubt in the long term that independence can only be achieved when all sections of society embraces it. That includes the middle class and the rich folk.

    That leaves the question to be asked about those of us who believe in independence as a way of change rather than clothing ourselves up on in a flag? How can we support a course that will those most of us that support it behind in the short to medium term?

  258. K1 says:

    More praise for NS and Scotland’s handling of crisis. From NYT, few fannies citing England subsidies Scotland btl, getting fair skelped.

  259. PacMan says:

    K1 says: 10 July, 2020 at 10:24 pm

    More praise for NS and Scotland’s handling of crisis. From NYT, few fannies citing England subsidies Scotland btl, getting fair skelped.

    There is no doubt that we are heading for a No deal Brexit. Next year, rather than blaming the EU the Tory Party will blame America and the trade deal they ‘force on us’, I wonder how American tourists will be made to feel welcome in certain parts of the UK?

  260. K1 says:

    The way things are playing out in the US, it’ll be a while afore we see any tourists from there. I’m not entirely convinced this Brexit shit is going to play out entirely the way we may imagine either.

  261. Oscar says:


    You thought you would waste ten minutes of your life to post about me being some kind and of Yoon plant, as you put it.

    That was your one and only contribution to Wings all day.

    What a sad bastard you are.

    Dick heed robbo done the exact same yesterday.

    Are you two the same Troll hunter.

    What the fuck is it with sad bastards like you and robbo.

    If you don’t like what I post then scroll past,,, it’s that fuckin simple.

    But to actually spend time typing mince about guys like me being 77 or whatever shite you post just shows how shallow minded bastards you and your sidekicks are.

  262. Tannadice Boy says:

    Once again I say to Stu your not posting enough. Your posts are predictated on facts or special insight. I said in 2014 a step change in trust was required for Indy2 to be successful. I think we have gone back since then. And now we have to clap for NS on Sunday.. really?. So damaging to the cause. Your are based in Bath and I am living on a different planet in Scotland. Bring back Salmond

  263. Oscar says:


    You and the Cat seem to get wet in the pants when Nicola gas a high rating.

    You are missing the point altogether.

    We are talking about YOUR Nicola pushing through a Bill that could potentially lead to women and girls being raped within women’s toilets it changing rooms.

    Now a sure fire way to stop this in it’s tracks us to change the leader who is forcing to his through.

    But people like you are against that and want to continue being lead by Nicola Sturgeon, who will force the GRA and hate crime bills.

    So once this becomes law and these weirdos get a cess to women’s soaces

  264. Oscar says:


    You and the Cat seem to get wet in the pants when Nicola gas a high rating.

    You are missing the point altogether.

    We are talking about YOUR Nicola pushing through a Bill that could potentially lead to women and girls being assaulted within women’s toilets or changing rooms.

    Now a sure fire way to stop this in it’s tracks is to change the leader who is forcing this through.

    But people like you are against that and want to continue being lead by Nicola Sturgeon, who will force the GRA and hate crime bills.

    So once this becomes law and these weirdos get access to women’s spaces and serious sexual assaults are committed against these females, then Sturgeon fanatics like you will be complicit in their assault.

    Because it was fanatics like you who supported the continued leadership of Sturgeon, which in turn lead to these weirdos getting access to do as they please to vulnerable females

    How can you sleep at night knowing you actually helped bring all these horrible circumstances about.

  265. CameronB Brodie says:

    Given English Torydum considers itself above the law, and given British constitutionalism is incompatible and impervious to international law, I don’t know why folk are so confident we will ever get a democratic say in Scotland’s future, if we allow ourselves to be removed from the EU.

    Brexit can’t be justified though constitutional jurisprudence, so we are in an existentialist struggle with authoritarian English nationalism, a.k.a. English fascism.

    Please stop thinking we are dealing with a matter of political taste, our decisions will impact on international human rights law, and have global ramifications that will hurt the poor and marginalised, if we don’t stand up for democracy.

    Brexitania is not a social democracy.

    Achieving Social Rights Through the
    Principle of Equality
    Text of a lecture delivered by Bob Hepple1 on Human Rights
    Day, 10 December 2014.

  266. PacMan says:

    Oscar says:10 July, 2020 at 11:15 pm


    You and the Cat seem to get wet in the pants when Nicola gas a high rating.

    You are missing the point altogether.

    We are talking about YOUR Nicola pushing through a Bill that could potentially lead to women and girls being assaulted within women’s toilets or changing rooms.

    Now a sure fire way to stop this in it’s tracks is to change the leader who is forcing this through.

    But people like you are against that and want to continue being lead by Nicola Sturgeon, who will force the GRA and hate crime bills.

    So once this becomes law and these weirdos get access to women’s spaces and serious sexual assaults are committed against these females, then Sturgeon fanatics like you will be complicit in their assault.

    Because it was fanatics like you who supported the continued leadership of Sturgeon, which in turn lead to these weirdos getting access to do as they please to vulnerable females

    How can you sleep at night knowing you actually helped bring all these horrible circumstances about.

    Please suggest a detailed alternative.

  267. ElGordo says:

    Oscar says:
    We are talking about YOUR Nicola pushing through a Bill that could potentially lead to women and girls being assaulted within women’s toilets or changing rooms.

    Should we also do something about excluding potential attackers from male toilets and changing rooms incase men and boys are potentially assalted? Separate queer toilets? maybe just improved HD CCTV or phone swipe on entry, sometimes it’s just a simple solution. Have you not found that the dividers in the urinals have reduced the amount of willy watching Oscar bravo?

  268. Famous15 says:

    This site has left,right and centre and also Brigade 77 trolls.

    Poor wee me just wants what 99% of the world has and that is an independent country.


  269. Oscar says:


    Another example of you troll Hunters wasting ten minutes of your life posting some crap about a post I posted.

    What the fuck is it with you lot?

    Look forward to you posting a right good constructive post regarding Scotlands future.

    ElGordo lay off the ElDee.

  270. schrodingers cat says:

    Alex Salmond
    “Stop The World Scotland Wants To Get On” – one of the great quotes from Winnie Ewing – 91 years young today. Happy Birthday, Winnie!

  271. ElGordo says:

    A “right good” constructive post is it Oscar Sierra?

  272. Oscar says:


    Another one

    Fuckin hell

    More crap about 77.

    Is this a private club you lot are in,,,or can any Lunatic join???

  273. Effijy says:

    When 2 countries have over 5,000,000 Covid Cases and over
    200,000 Covid deaths and the planet looks over 12,500,000
    Cases accelerating with each day, isn’t it reassuring to have all
    These Unionist Trolls advice that it is all normal. Just a wee cold?

    If we look at China after implementing the most severe and stringent
    Lockdown imagining still have new Civid cases on a daily basis some
    8-9 months after their first Covid death, how on earth can Boris and
    Unionists have any hope in hell about it just being a cold that is almost over?

    Countries that acted responsibly and immediately like Norway, New Zealand
    and Australia are still having new Covid cases.
    It’s just a putty it can’t pick out those idiots who deny its existence!

  274. Oscar says:


    No problem

    Get shot of Sturgeon

    Get a Pro Indy leader running the show and kick all these crazy fuckin bills right into touch.

  275. ElGordo says:

    “Is this a private club you lot are in,,,or can any Lunatic

    Were we only meant to blow the bloody doors off Oscar Delta?

  276. Oscar says:


  277. ElGordo says:

    When dukes or maharajahs pass the time o’ day wi’ me,
    I say me special word and then they ask me out to tea!

  278. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    BTL on WOS used to be quite educational – I learned a lot from the Robert Peffers et al posts.

    However, over the past year or or so, there is so much $h!† being posted on here BTL, it’s making it painful to read all the comments.

    The thing is, we KNOW who the shit-stirrers are. They are banned, then come back as a new username but their style of prose gives them away.

    I just wish Rev Stu would recognise them for what they are.

    Apologies Rev Stu – I don’t usually criticise your judgement.

  279. Lothianlad says:

    Is it true there is a plan to ‘ clap for Nicola’ on sunday 19th???

    Seriously? GTF!
    What is the sound of one hand clapping?

  280. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon
    Is MIT not edumicational enough for you? Picky. 🙂

    The Routledge Handbook of Epistemic Injustice

  281. ElGordo says:

    Ride yer maw and find oot

  282. Capella says:

    @ BDTT – me too. Best thing is to email Stu. I doubt even he can be bothered wading through the drivel posted here. I just dropped in after watching Scandi noir on Netflix. It’s more cheerful. With a few honourable exceptions.

  283. schrodingers cat says:

    @bdtt @capella

    we could all hold hands and try and contact the living?

  284. schrodingers cat says:

    now you mention it, i havent seen robert peffers on here since i got back. what happened to him. last time i heard he was struggling with his sight?

  285. iain mhor says:

    @BDTT 12:15am

    I have a couple in reserve might be of passing interest – but my posts tend to the verbose.
    Since that is like kryptonite to many, I try and ration them, or more often, just don’t bother my arse.
    I know the posts de-jour tend to the “Yer maw” & “yer da sells avon” variety – but I’m not very good at such one-liners. My heart isn’t really in that anymore. I used to have a good go on Usenet BBS back in the day – but then I lost my virginity and my plooks cleared up.

  286. K1 says:

    Rest assured Capella, bdtt we’re aw just watchin the shit show same as you, and we aw know who the players are, there’s nothin to be done until Stu sorts it and not one of them is worth responding to, once campaigning begins and it will, the btl will be purged, no doubt.

    Ah commend ye Capella for stayin the course and tip ma hat to you Cat, well said Brian.

    I miss Mr Peffers too 🙁

  287. bipod says:

    I think someone should let Effijy know that every other year there is a massive flu pandemic that kills many hundreds of thousands people across the globe, and we don’t shut down the country over it. Thats probably because when that normally happens we don’t have a fear mongering media to rile up people like Effijy into believing this is spanish flu 2.0 or the plague.

    Unfortunately for the lockdown fanatics the empirical data is in and it turns out for working aged people this is no worse than the flu, the second wave is a myth and Leicester was a scam.

    Chinas response to virtually every problem it has is to lockdown, and it never works. Rather than taking the lead from one of the most authoritarian regimes in the world, we should pay more attention to other places nearby like Japan and Taiwan, which never had a lockdown and performed far better than us.

    This whole “crisis” has exposed an entire section of society who absolutely love to micro manage and boss everyone else around, exemplified by dithering nicola.

  288. iain mhor says:


    I dareny post a weird, possibly interesting, but verbose one here, in case the entire site implodes.
    I’ll stick it in OT – see if it’s any use…

  289. CameronB Brodie says:

    Covid-19 is not a seasonal flu, so anyone selling that mince should be considers as untrustworthy, and their judgement and opinion rejected as unsound. The same goes for anyone who seeks to deny a scientific world view.

    Full text.

    Philosophia volume 47, pages 293–301 (2019)
    Authority and Attribution: the Case of Epistemic Injustice in Self-Knowledge

  290. schrodingers cat says:



  291. CameronB Brodie says:

    The same applies to opinion that rejects a respect for Natural Law and phenomenology.

    Full text.

    Inquiry | An Interdisciplinary Journal of Philosophy, 25 Apr 2019
    Epistemic dimensions of gaslighting: peer-disagreement, self-trust, and epistemic injustice

  292. schrodingers cat says:


  293. CameronB Brodie says:

    How on earth is Scotland going to progress in the face of Covid-19, without full governmental powers of a nation state? British constitutionalism is no longer supported by constitutional practice that is coherent and compatible with constitutional jurisprudence. It is only supported by authoritarian legal practice.

    Constitutional justice is unachievable for Scotland, while standing under British Parliamentary sovereignty, which articulates a racist cultural psychology that seek to silence and exclude the Scottish identity.

    “Prediscursive Epistemic Injury”:
    Recognizing Another Form of Epistemic Injustice?

    This article revisits Miranda Fricker’s Epistemic Injustice (2007) through one specific aspect of Axel Honneth’s recognition theory. Taking a first cue from Honneth’s critique of the limitations of the “language-theoretic framework” in Habermas’ discourse ethics, it floats the idea that the two categories of Fricker’s groundbreaking analysis – testimonial and hermeneutical injustice – likewise lean towards a speech-based metric (equating harm to the capacities to know with compromise to the capacity to speak of what one knows).

    If we accept, however, that there are also implicit, preverbal, affective, and embodied ways of knowing and channels of knowledge transmission, this warrants an expansion of Fricker’s original concept. By drawing on Honneth’s recognition theory (particularly his Winnicottian-inspired account of ‘first order’ recognition and basic trust), I argue it is possible to extend the account of epistemic injustice beyond Fricker’s two central categories, to glimpse yet another register of serious “wrong done to someone specifically in their capacity as a knower.”

    I define this harm as prediscursive epistemic injury and offer two central cases to illustrate this additional form of epistemic injustice.

    Prediscursive epistemic injury, recognition, Fricker, Honneth

  294. twathater says:

    @ Dan 8.03pm thanks for those links Dan , I know that Barrheadboy has been quite outspoken in his blogs re the GRA and HCB but he was so disappointed with the focus on indy that he gave up his membership , Jeggit similarly has always been open and honest about his desire for independence but he also is frustrated and outspoken about the current trajectory of the SNP , similar Peter A Bell , similar Craig Murray , so are all these trusted indy supporting bloggers to be derided and denigrated because they question and disagree with NS

  295. Lothianlad says:

    Its probably because a monkey did it to you maw that your here today

  296. Robert Louis says:

    I see John Swinney is in the National today, deriding the idea of the list vote for a genuinely pro independence party.

    I have a lot of time for him, but seriously, he and others within the SNP are now talking up indyref two years from now. FFS! wake up guys.

    If politics in the UK were trdging along at the snail’s pace it used to, with nothing too controversial happening, the odd bill change here or there, then the current glacial approach by the SNP would be fine. But that is NOT how things are.

    Scots are about to be forcibly and forever stripped of their EU citizenship by England, wholly against their wishes. Waiting another couple of years, just doesn’t cut it, Mr Swinney.

    Where is their sense of urgency? Where is their understanding that things in politics have changed? The old ‘rules’ have been dumped long ago by the murderous lying crooks in number 10. They care nothing for ‘how things should be done’.

    Scotland will be out of the EU, with enforced, damaging trade deals well locked into place, for several years before NS finally thinks of going for independence – or even sullies herself by even talking about it.

    Man, what is wrong with the SNP leadership?? Can they not see what is happening? Can they not grasp the urgency of all of this?

    On the 1st January 2021, my anger will no longer be at London, but at the sleepy ignorant intransigence of the SNP Scottish government. They have more political mandates than most political parties ever have in a hundred years, yet still they dither, telling us they need just one more electoral victory, before doing anything.

    Right now, they should not be enabling brexit in Scotland (as they are), but fighting it tooth and nail. It is all too damn polite, all too damn cosy. Where is the anger? Where is the fight?

    The SNP leadership just do not seem to get it. It is like they are still living in the past. Then their was plenty time, but now there really, really isn’t.

    To the SNP leadership I would say, THIS, this, is why Scotland needs a second indy party, because the SNP just do not get it. The same old approach just doesn’t cut it, with the lying, racist barstewards we have now in Westminster. The SNP is like somebody stuck in a past that never really existed, thinking they can take all the time in the world, when in reality events are speeding up.

    By the time 2021 comes, their will be no freaking Scottish parliament and no First Minister. I mean seriously, just what do you think all those new ‘uk’ government staff and shiny new office in Edinburgh are being built for?? Pretty freaking obvious really.

  297. ahundredthidiot says:

    There was a time when everyone was ‘told’ the Earth was flat by the Authorities and their propaganda men.

    Some people were pointing at data and were roundly mocked and even executed, but it turns out the data pointers were right, the Earth wasn’t flat after all.

    We thought we had a deadly pandemic on our hands and the world went into meltdown – most fell for it initially.

    But then the data came in…..slowly, but surely, many people woke up to the idea this ‘deadly pandemic’ was nothing of the sort.

    Some people just cant handle the truth if they’ve been scammed and weak, careerist Leaders know not how to lead – their only recourse to stick stubbornly to their position – brassing it out.

  298. Capella says:

    @twathater – Yes. on your 6.51 comment.

    you will see how ANGRY people are with NS and her shite policies

    It struck me that you were ignoring the facts. Nicola Sturgeon is not hated and her policies are not regarded as “shite” by most people. This blog – and probably Conservative or Labour Hame, will be full of people who think that. But not the population in general.

    Yes SC has posted the poll figures regularly.

    OTOH – I quite agree that her policies on GRA reform and the Hate Crime Bill are deplorable.

  299. Capella says:

    @ K1 🙂 too.

  300. Breeks says:

    Capella says:
    11 July, 2020 at 8:10 am
    @twathater – Yes. on your 6.51 comment.

    you will see how ANGRY people are with NS and her shite policies

    It struck me that you were ignoring the facts. Nicola Sturgeon is not hated and her policies are not regarded as “shite” by most people…..

    I’m a withering critic of Nicola Sturgeon’s policy, which does make her difficult to like, but I’m a long way from hating her. It’s what she does, or rather doesn’t do, which I find so very difficult to live with.

    Funnily enough, the ‘personality’ factor has as little bearing on me as the ‘popularity’ factor. By that I mean, I couldn’t care less every man, woman and child wanted Sturgeon to be canonised for saving fluffy kittens, in my tiny and unpopular, cantankerous minority of one, I would still be outraged by her attitude to Scotland’s Constitution.

    But we should all be concerned, detractors and supporters alike, because if she doesn’t change tac, she will cost Scotland dear.

    All the other stuff, the GRA and Woke stuff, her wee coterie of pals, and all the fiddling while Rome burns, … to me, it’s just insignificant background noise beside the main issue of Independence, but it emphasises there’s a massive blind spot in her wisdom and priorities.

    I invite anyone to give me one good reason my Scotland could not have kept itself safe behind a Constitutional Backstop, protecting both the Constitution and our EU Membership, and whatever the stakes might have been on Independence, we’d be no worse off than Northern Ireland. I find our craven capitulation over Brexit very difficult to excuse or live with. Victory was there for the taking and the Union would be at an end.

  301. CameronB Brodie says:

    Would someone please help the SNP’s leadership appreciate Scotland is still connected to international law through the EU. Can you also help them appreciate Westminster no longer holds any moral legal authority over Scotland. It is only the internal colonisation of the mind that binds Scotland to England.

    As such, the SNP have completely failed in their legal duty of care to protect Scotland, and can’t be considered supportive of democracy, as the leadership clearly considers their judgement superiour to international law. How pukka British, what?

    Epistemic injustice as distributive injustice

  302. John Digsby says:

    @CBB is the connection to EU law if a temporary nature (based on the transition period in the UK withdrawal agreement) or something more wide-ranging?

  303. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scotland is being attacked by authoritarian English nationalism that has total disregard for history and due legal process. Unfortunately, the SNP appear to be intellectually incapable of a proper legal defense against the constitutional violence of Brexit, and their legal positioning is clearly one that views Scotland as legal subourdinate to England. This will be because they view the world through the lens of British constitutional convention and tradition, rather than the lens of international law.

    So Scotland is left defenseless and at the mercy of right-wing, (white), populist, English nationalism. Something needs to give, and hopefully not Scotland’s future.

    the philosophy of

  304. CameronB Brodie says:

    John Digsby
    We are in the process of have these rights stripped from us, as Westminster considers itself impervious and superior to international law.

    The protection of fundamental rights in the EU

  305. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. UK law can’t be used to strip those living in Scotland of legal rights protected by international law, and British constitutional practice remain coherent and compatible with the principles liberal constitutionalism.

    Brexitania is an English Tory tyranny that is blind to the interests of Scotland, and intent on doing us considerable legal harm.

    What does it mean to be made vulnerable in the era of COVID-19?

  306. twathater says:

    @ Capella 8.10am I know by your postings that you use the various routes to indy sites and blogs , I am not a member of twatter but I visit various postings , one I was on last night was calling into question the pile on from senior SNP figures NS, HUMZA , GILLIAN , Cherry and others relating to denigrating the people in the border protest as racists and a stain on indy supporters , there was a post from an English lady who said she was there and there were NO racist comments

    Most of the comments were extremely angry that SNP senior people were condemning these people as racists without even investigating the situation , and were outraged that they were taking the word of carlaw as gospel

  307. Gregory Beekman says:


    What defines a person: their soul or their physical being?

    Some say soul, some say physical being.

    Cleverly, the trans lobby have changed soul to mind.

    Mind comes from the structure of the brain.

    Thus, soul is a now a physical being.

    It is a brilliant muddying of the waters and I have to give them credit for it!

    But science shows that the brain is plastic. That means the brain structure changes in response to what you do with it. If you drive a cab in London, the bit of your brain dealing with maps etc becomes enlarged; when you stop being a cab driver, in a few years that bit of the brain shrinks.

    If you measure a physical difference between a male and female brain, how do you know whether it’s a born difference or a difference arising because of their different experiences? If woman are oppressed and told to stay at home and look after the kids, the bits of the brain to do with child-rearing expand and the bits to do with (say) science and engineering shrink.

    So you are not measuring sex differences in the brain but measuring the oppression that woman have experienced. Although, to be fair, there are (apparently) some sex-based differences in our brains.

    As clever as the soul-to-brain-structure idea is, it’s not good enough because of this brain plasticity.

    It also totally ignores external physical function, which is what most of us worry about. If your externals have a function that is different from another persons (penis v. vagina), then structures (toilets, clothing, medical instruments etc) have to be designed differently in response.

    Thus we have separate facilities, sports and so on.

    But the trans lobby want us to ignore all that and accept that if a person claims their brain structure (the modern concept of the soul) is female but their body male (or vice versa), then we should all accept that without any proof.

    We should not accept that – there should be brain scans of each trans individual and the results of that scan kept confidential but discussed fully with the trans person by relevant medical personnel so that they can be helped to understand themselves better. Perhaps if it can be shown that their ‘soul’ is not what they think it is, this trans ideology will no longer hold sway over so many.

    But perhaps there will be some that do have brain structures that suggest they are trapped in the wrong body. Then they can be helped in which ever way they need helped (changing their sex, or creating a new biological classification and asserting they don’t need surgery because their biology has as much right to exist as anyone else’s, or whatever else is required).

    Thanks to science, we have ‘soul’ scanners – let’s use them to help these people better understand themselves.

    my tuppence

  308. CameronB Brodie says:

    Gregory Beekman
    Wow, I wish I could have put things together like that. Thank you.

    Are We Morally Equal by Nature?
    Beth Lord explores Spinoza’s rejection of natural moral equality and its relevance for modern democracy

  309. Gregory Beekman says:

    Wow, thank you Cameron – that means a lot!


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