Belts and braces
Posted on
April 27, 2019 by
Chris Cairns
The world's most-read Scottish politics website
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Another cracker. Personally from one Hamish to another I would find another escape door! We are heading with John Bull to destruction.
We have time to prepare with the Yes campaigners to persuade the non voters, the younger folk, the waverers and the remainers to Vote for Independence.
We are the best people to govern ourselves. To choose not to fight in illegal wars, to remove the obscenity of nuclear weapons and are you listening Mr Leonard – remove the scourge of poverty.
Remain in the U.K. Union and none of the above will happen – ever.
Jump Hamish! you’ll land in a ‘ normal ‘ country.
Hamish is back!
Best call the referendum before the plane hits the ground.
Jump Hamish! Jump!
He’s back!
Thanks, Chris.
Wish Hamish would hurry up and get out before the UK plane hits the terra firma,
Happy SNP Conference 2019 day,all the very best to the sainted Nicola,
in our beautiful capital city,
voted in the top three cities in the world, only let down from No1 by not having enough sweetie shops.
Great Toon as always.
Save Scotland.
Happy Conference everyone.
Now is not the time!
Some grim reading in Hootsman via Pamala Nash and Brian Wilson but biggest laugh is in Daily Mail from Tory East Lothian council by election candidate.
You know what I’d like to see happen from now on, is at PMQ’s in London, Iain Blackford, every single week with his two questions, just recite what people in the Tory party have stated regarding leaving a union and how a nation cannot be held against its will, as it is the 21st century etc..
Seriously, that would so irk them all. Just literally reciting Ttheir own lines and arguments they have used for brexit, but relating it to Scottish independence and ending the union treaty with England.
No need to even tell them what is being quoted, just do it. Every single week, without change, no matter what. and the more it repeats, the better.
repeat after me, “It is the 21st century and you cannot hold a nation against its will” Mark Francois, rabid brexiteer, Tory MP, deputy chairman of European research group.
Hamish is using the last parachute…. 🙂
Surely Hamish should be taking the whisky with him?
Premature ? It’s not a word I could ever use in terms of Scotland freeing itself from the destructed forces of English imperialism.Scottish independence can’t come soon enough.
I’m genuinely puzzled by the delay
just considering what has happened since 2014 with the red bus promises the vow promises and then the disgraceful behaviour of English Westminster MP,s towards the SNP MP,s and Theresa May telling Scotland now is not the time and Theresa May getting to her feet and walking out every time an SNP MP stands up to speak I mean how many insults do you wish to take Scotland ?
And yet, there are still lots of people who will not vote for Scottish independence
The point is proven that you can never ever change the mind of some folk
History shows it
Not just here but across the planet
People tie allegiance to losers, to those who actually harm them
There is no benefit in delaying separation
I really wish SNP would announce it at this conference this weekend
Now is the time
Let’s do it
Jump before that thieving b’stard steals yer parachute too.
The YES/NO Indy Polls are contaminated. The Pollsters are paid to use the Polls to manipulate the results. Gerrymandering. Especially in tight margins. They are used by Hedge Funds to make more money.
The Pollster companies are run by crooks and illegal operators. The commit illegal activities and have been censored and fined many times to no avail. They can make more monies than that breaking the Law with impunity. With 10 Downing Street support. They are in in it. The Pollsters agents get wel remunerated posts there to manipulate the result. Illegality at the heart of government. Thieving hands and manipulation at work, by all reports. A total illegal conspiracy to manipulate the result.
No respect for Purdah period breaking the Law. Just like the indyref. So many fake hands of self interest at work. Illegal outside influence. It was supposed to be for the people in Scotland to decide. No chance. The fake vow totally illegal but helped the funds management results. To illegally defraud the people in Scotland again, of their rights.
Even illegally gained International pressure. The Iraq war another fool hardy example. Thieving Cameron purring to line his pockets. The Brexit intent imbecile. Now long gone but the chaos lingers on. Costing £Billions and impoverishing people. Not him. Still with his nose troughing in ill gotten gains of public money. The shameful, useless pig abuser. Still at it like a legacy of Tory corruption. Not supported in Britain or Internationally.
Including the bookies results. Totally manipulated to defraud the punters. Not a game of chance but sheer manipulation. That’s why the bookies always win. Deceiving the population on the odds. Not even. A bet for a laugh but it can destroy too many lives if they get hooked on the game of chance. It should be more evenly controlled not to make a government ill gotten gains. It is not worth it, for the misery it can cause. Sucking up other resources. It is not worth it at all.
Just like the vows not worth the paper it is written on. Before the ink? is dry renegaded upon. Classic Westminster unionist non gamesmanship. Classic political lies. Lie, after lie, after lie. Liars always get found out. The Press want to lie as well. Not brought to book but losing support big time.
Thank goodness for the Internet and Rev Stu. Despite the grumbles or fake action. Still thanks a billion. Bringing fake political liars to book. At least some of them will have second thoughts before they lie again and again. Well worth the Rev’s action on so many fronts. Thanks again to the site keeping people sane. Plus the covered publicity. Hold the fort. Good and strong.
People of conviction will return and more will come on board. A game of chance and opportunity, outlined. Just like before good and true. What’s got into some people. Keep the faith and have patience. Everything will turn out good as gold. Just convince one other. Job done.
Do not forget Margo’s, the great patriot, words still rings true. Like so many others who did not survive to see the endgame but whose spirit is still there. In rememberance. They will be celebrated like so many others. Respect.is always due. Once it comes YES and everyone is greeting for various reasons. Not for failure this time. The IndyRef be held when it can be won. The best time possible in the schedule.
Polls are overrated especially in tight margins. That is why they are often wrong. Unexpected results. Double whammy of calamity. ‘Oh what hapoened’. Then the pathetic excuses.. TV jargon nonsense. Ringing of hands etc. The public monies waste on it. £3.7Billion for the BBC. Half spent, frivolously, on land estate revenues. Building up a overrated colossal unneccessary empire of neglect and misinformation. The public supposed to be the stakeholders, ignored.There are far better less biased news outlooks out there. With good supported research, for a dime. Out doing Official sites. The mavericks more confident of the truth.
The SNP are flying high. Outpacing by all accounts. Long may it continue. Along with May’s demise to oblivion. People are not fools. They can see their standard of living and livelihoods threatened. Along with their children’s, family’s future, by colossal Westminster union mismanagement, by epic proportion. With as extended web, internet, e-mail cover support will increase. Nae bother.
The IndyRef will be decided by the 25% (a 1/4) of people who never vote, regularly or not at all. They are not polled constituently. Off the radar of regular political discourse. The Pollster often manipulating the result with illegal means. Against data protection control. Trolling people. Cambridge Analythica etc still unpunished for massive data breaches by right wing agitators. Protected by the Tories. Along with MSM non Dom tax evading criminals. Supported by the corrupt Westminster Gov.
Perhaps Hamish should wait until the plane smacks into the ground allowing people to see the carnage, this will then convince them to jump out and save themselves……..or maybe not.
With this morning’s YouGov poll, putting Yes and No neck-and-neck on Independence, I can see one or two of the Yoon press’s Sunday columnists being asked to do a hurried re-write, pointing-out the error of independence, and going doubly hard on SNP Baad.
They must be shitting themselves now, look out for ever-more outlandish threats against an Independent Scotland.
They know they are losing, and losing big time.
Apparently the latest poll for Scottish Independence is Yes: 49% No: 51% under the current political F*** up of Brexit and an incompetent Westminster Government intent on dragging Scotland out of the EU against its will.
I mean WTAF. Obviously no reasonable minded person is going to take this Tory owned YouGov poll seriously, but that’s the worrying thing, call me paranoid, but all the British State has to do is somehow prevent a positive result for a Scottish Independence referendum and we will never have the belief we can ever win if we believe we can’t win when we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
The Yougov poll in ‘The Times’ was commissioned to hopefully produce a spoiler to the SNP for this weekend’s conference. The results were not what the paper had hoped for. The life-jacket/parachute in the cartoon is being put on.
Can people PLEASE stop spouting shite about how opinion polls are all crooked? You know you’re reading a site that’s commissioned 15 of them, right?
If the Times had wanted to avoid giving the SNP conference a boost, absolutely nothing would have stopped them holding the poll results over to Monday, or indeed from not publishing them at all.
Sorry o/t but got a couple of questions here.
Re the eu elex 23rd May, is it going to be a list of candidates as in an LA election where you look for the most pro indy and vote for them? Or is it votes for a particular party or what? Got the polling card but never seen a list of candidates, if there is one. Never voted in an EU election before. I’m in Glasgow north Maryhill & Springburn.
Also about the National’s recent billboard campaign where they’ve highlighted a screenshot of a tweet or something from BT in 2014 where it says the best way to lose EU membership is to vote Yes. Does anyone know if that was just a one off with one billboard in one location for a day or two or was it in more locations throughout the country and staying up for longer? I don’t know specifically who at the National to ask so asking here.
SNP Spring Conference – I was looking for info on where I could watch a live stream and naturally had a look at SNP website and no mention of the conference at all on SNP homepage which is dreadful. What are they playing at?
Anyone know if a live stream exists?
Opinion polls in newspapers are designed to influence the reader, not to inform them.
Any political party will use private polling and not rely on the public polls.
I’ll repeat what I’ve said before, IMO the public aren’t ready yet.
I hope I’m wrong.
Further to my post at 9.56 I have now found this https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive.
Why it is not on the SNP homepage for interested visitors is a mystery and rather inept. It has taken me ages to find this information as I want more than BBC selective takes.
Did John Bull get an uncomplimentary bag of nuts (i.e. the Scottish Tory MPs) to go with his in flight drink?
Further to 10:11 I have abandoned any attempt to watch SNP conference live – all I got was unintelligible conversation in the foyer yet conference was meant to have started at 10.30.
Sorry to give a downer but this is pathetic – the SNP need to do much better than this.
Footsoldier – SNP on fb have a link the conference live
SNP Conference on Twitter too.
https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1122070791762300928
Answer for you @JMD says at 9:55 am
EU Elections are via “a simple system in which every elector just casts a single vote for a single party, and in which seats are allocated in proportion to the share of the vote each party receives.”
Scotland is one EU voting ‘constituency’ returning 6 MEPs (incidentally if Scotland was Independent in the EU we’d get 13 MEPs!)
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/04/no-mark-ruskell-its-not-possible-to.html?m=1
So if you want an majority of SNP MEPs vote SNP.
SNP may also return 4 of Scotlands 6 MEPs.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/04/is-davidson-plunging-towards-calamity.html?m=1
That would be a great answer to the “…No Appetite for , Polls show no change…” Brigade, “Now is not the time” Westminster and as a clear signal to the EU that The Sovereign People of Scotlands vote to remain EU Citizens in 2016 is still as strong (if not stronger) in 2019.
Another belter Chris, lets hope Hamish makes his escape and has a soft landing.
great poll for us,
44% Yes
45% No
10% DK
1% Refused
interestingly, it looks like the dk’s are mainly previous no voters
Ho ho! A cartoon that uses an image of iminent catastrophe that isn’t a cliche. Love it, Chris. (Hoping Nicola has a Plan B.)
You essential weekend reading:
Why Scotland needs its own currency: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-nCr
‘Wild Rose’ – almost a Scots film: https://wp.me/p4fd9j-nC4
OT., but it shows you what kind of country we are living in when Julian Assange is in jail for telling the truth and exposing all,the lies about British and American torture etc.,and Tony Blair A., Campbell Jack Straw and the rest are still free to walk the streets,when their lies caused the deaths of thousands and to add to the insult they have the cheek to come on the air and msm and tell us their opinions all proven liars who should be in jail for mass murder this is the world we live in God help us
Conference livestream on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB_SmmgU6ao
Cheers Capella
The Britnats cheat at everything. Why would they not cheat at polling?
The site owner may think this is a shite comment but the cairnstoon is great.
It’s called free speech.
The livestream has stopped for lunch but is scheduled to start again at 2.00pm with John Swinney’s speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB_SmmgU6ao
JWT 10.57am. Yeah Scotland get 6 mep’s , while the northwest of england get 8 and yorkshire 6. Says it all really. How could any Scot with half a brain think that westminster has their best interests at heart?.
What is a scandal is that the BBC, the state broadcaster, is not showing the SNP Conference live. Not even the supposedly dedicated TV channel, BBC Scotland, which is broadcasting the usual drivel.
Great cartoon Chris. Blind to the reality that the Union is over and out. Then again maybe he’s no that daft and there’s some potassium cyanide in the glass that he’s holding … 100-200 mgs of it.
…….
WGD:- ‘Things which are predictable.’
..”In any event, there is absolutely no legal prohibition on pro-independence parties turning any future Scottish election into a de-facto referendum on independence. One way or another, Scotland will have a say on its own future, and it does not require the permission of Theresa May or a Tory – or Labour – government to do so.”..
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/04/25/things-which-are-predictable/
…………….
‘Wee Ginger Dugcast – 26 April 2019.’
”In this week’s edition of the dugcast (because we’re fed up with ducks now), The National’s editor Callum Baird and I talk about Nicola’s big announcement, the failure of BBC Scotland when it faced its first big Scottish political moment, the launch of the SIC’s new Voices for Scotland initiative, and The National’s subscription drive, its commitment to the indy movement, and how you can get a stuffed toy Wee Ginger Dug of your own.”
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/04/26/wee-ginger-dugcast-26-april-2019/
Now that is a good cartoon.
From Yahoo News.
Spot the anglocentric bias from ‘international press’ hack probably based in Singapore.
https://news.yahoo.com/scottish-independence-vote-may-2021-unlikely-experts-135447313.html?
Yahoo certainly sucks!
Hey, mibbies the lever we had from THIS ONE…
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-levers-of-power/
When applied allowed us to OPEN the exit door(s) to freedom
All that’s left to do NOW is 2 get off ah their crazy plane
It’s all starting again 🙂
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/may-2019-new-office-radio#/
The opinion polls have been censored and fined so many times and been found to be corrupt. The head ‘BBC expert’ Involved in cover up and lining their pockets for personal gain and ‘honours’. A most dishonourable occupation. Breaking professional codes of activity. Bad or poor methodology, data collection. etc. Found wanting.
It is a discredited industry no matter who commissions them. More fool them. The Polls are used so many time by unscrupulous people on the right wing. Owned by the right wing as to be entirely disputable. To make Hedge Funds and bookies loads of money. £Billions. Electoral Commision totally useless but involved in the cover up. Already investigated. Vast illegal sums of money distributed without declaration.
They did it at the EU Ref when Farague unneccessary, irresponsivly declared defeat. When the opposite result had occurred. The short selling happened in that hour. Giving the Hedge Funds and associates, loads of money. One of the Hedge Fund mangers donated £30Million to Vote Leave Brexit and made £90Million. They made £Billions inclusively. So did the bookies and Farague? Associates – Arron Banks etc, Farague has been milking the EU and the political system for years. No putting accounts or declared funding. Getting away with impunity along with associates Hannan? Etc. Milking the EU illegally of £Million false claim etc. Some has had to be paid back.
Ditto IndyRef. Unionist activities. Making false claims etc.
Ginger dug branching out. Excellent.
What is happening in Scotland with unsubtle British acts of ‘censorship’ is very similar to British ruled Egypt and Iraq, with the exception that in those countries there was a free press which was difficult to gag. There were, of course, also ‘useful idiots’ ie tra+t+rs willing to kiss the feet (and other bits) of the paymaster. Naturally, after independence none were to be found.
The veil is being pulled from the malign face of Britannia. The decaying portrait of Dorian Gray was prettier.
@ Cappella 1.29
We were about to go out for a quick visit to shops. Dog had already had a good walk and swim at the beach and rather than leave him in a hot car in the sun we closed the blind and put telly on for some background noise.
Flicking channels through the usual Sat sport crap and came to BBC Scotland.
Their alternative to sport? You might think at least a snippet from Conf. but no, Lizzie’s Coronation! The Coronation ffs! Back home and we now have some rich brat house porn. Channel is a joke and deliberately trolling Scotland
O/T:
For those of you who couldn’t be bothered reading the McCrone Report here is the bit that got it marked top Secret and had both Tory and Labour Governments lock it away from public view for several decades. Also bear in mind that it would still be locked away if it had not been obtained under the Freedom Of Information Act:-
If you would like to read the entire text of the report you will find it here:-
http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf
By the way, McCrone actually got it all wrong as his estimates of the actual oil & Gas Revenues were he Westminster figures and calculations and way below the real figures and his assumed figures of Scotland’s real values from before oil & gas was discovered were miles out.
However, those were the Westminster wrong figures and calculations they had used for centuries to strip Scottish assets. Just like the GERS figures they were designed to deceive.
That plane does not look very strong and stable. But the unionist passengers will prefer it because jumping out the plane is so uncertain! Crashing to the ground and burning in a ball of fire, now that’s the kind of status quo certainty they can get behind.
WGD:- ‘Things which are predictable.’
..”In any event, there is absolutely no legal prohibition on pro-independence parties turning any future Scottish election into a de-facto referendum on independence
——-
been saying this for weeks. it seems so obvious, the only way to win indy is by a majority in a plebicite, whether that is by a referendum or an election is irrelevent
@ Frogesque says at 3:49 pm ….”We were about to go out for a quick visit to shops. Dog had already had a good walk and swim at the beach and rather than leave him in a hot car in the sun we closed the blind and put telly on for some background noise. Flicking channels through the usual Sat sport crap and came to BBC Scotland. Their alternative to sport? You might think at least a snippet from Conf. but no, Lizzie’s Coronation! The Coronation ffs!”
Frogesque, you better watch you don’t get done for cruelty to animals, lol.
The media in Scotland has the function of supporting a state of national cognitive dissonance. Subsequently, lives will be harmed and the opportunities available to future generations diminished, thanks to the full-English Brexit. British nationalism is simply not a liberal pastime, frankly.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00479/full
Scottish Steve @3.56pm
As the plane is falling, the passengers can be heard reassuring one another with the comforting thought that, ” We are ok so far. Haven’t hit the ground yet. Best bet would be to wait until impact and spread ourselves over as wide an area as possible in many pieces. Then we can panic.”
Primary UK legislation can not be challenged in Court.
Any actions under primary legislation can be challenged in court.
Re comments on previous thread – there’s no shame in getting scunnered. Fuck knows, there’s plenty to get scunnered about, eh?
I’m not the only one who has all-but stopped commenting here, but that has nothing to do with personal commitment to indy.
Some have more resilience than others. Knowing when to drop out and take a wee breather is important. If a few of us happen to do so at the same time, so what?
And there endeth the sermon…
🙂
So Amendments A to C failed, but Amendment D) Launch new currency ‘as soon as practicable’ has passed.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17602310.live-updates-as-snp-conference-2019-gets-underway-in-edinburgh/
“Conference considers that an SNP Government should take the steps necessary to enable the Scottish Parliament to authorise the preparation of a Scottish Currency as soon as practicable after a vote for Independence with the aim that the currency be ready for introduction as soon as practicable after Independence Day.”
Don’t know about anyone else but we just got our voting cards in for the EU elections,has May given up on getting her deal through before then??
Just noted that bit “… as soon as practicable after a vote for Independence …”
Nice 🙂
Ian Brotherhood says:
And there endeth the sermon…
————————-
amen
🙂
@yesindyref2
Yes, a flexielasticystretchheeee thing that! 🙂
Anyone on here complaining about BBC Shortbread.
STOP PAYING THE FUC*ING LICENCE.
Totally agree ken500 . The opinion polls have been weaponised since pre 2014. If 49% is the lowest they can give us, their goosed!!
The Rev tweets:-
“There are way, way, way too many Yes folk acting like unthinking Corbyn-cultists this week. “Have faith in the infallible Divine Leader!” is not a rational position.
It sometimes feels that in the last few weeks our Wings ‘Divine Leader’may, also, no longer be his infallible self? It seems the SNP have really upset him since the court case, and so he’s having a go at those of us who still believe Nicola knows what she’s doing.
Looks like we are winning and the union is fucked.
So sad, too bad a better future awaits.
Things can only get better!
@Gary45% : 5.52
Haven’t paid for over 20 Yeats at my flat but significant other likes he soaps and will soon be 75. She’s changed from NO to YES and I’m not about to upset her. Lol.
Totally get where you are coming from though.
The SNP top table (incl. Keith Brown and Nicola Sturgeon) didn’t seem displeased about Amendment D being passed. Good result all round IMO and an interesting debate.
Pity the BBC boycotts the SNP conference. I trust all the other party conferences will be similarly boycotted. The webcst from the venue was problematic. I hope that is sorted out before tomorrow.
Otherwise, a very positive feel to the proceedings from home viewer. Some feedback from the participants would be good. 🙂
@ Gary 45% – like frogesque, I haven’t paid a licence fee for decades and don’t watch BBC except to visit the website and check out what they are up to. I sometimes listen to the radio for similar reasons. There is very little of interest being broadcast anyway. But Netflix, sooner or later, will stream anything worth catching up with.
Nevertheless, since the BBC is given oodles of public money, paid for by our taxes, I’m angry about the fact that we are deprived of a decent broadcasting service which leaves us poorer than every other small country in the world.
I regard it as a human right i.e. to have the ability to reflect back our everyday lived experience to ourselves. We are suffering a form of sensory deprivation. Scotland pays £320 m a year in licence fees to be bombarded by anti Scottish propaganda and the everyday concerns of another country.
We are further deprived of the technical skills, technology and capacity to use broadcasting services. There are flown up from London on the odd occasion they are required. Then they fly back down again. It is a truly pathetic state of affairs.
@yesindyref2, 5.30
Thanks for posting that. Introducing a new currency is not done when the time is right. It is done at an end date after the planning and preparation is completed. It is encouraging that the SNP members are expecting that end date.
Thank you Chris Cairns, your cartoons nearly always make me smile 🙂 (some are a bit gruseome and frankly scary!)
I love that Hamish is calm… but determined =) (hmmm reminds me of someone…)
Bit worrying seeing the rush of flames coming from the stricken engine right across the escape route! I’m guessing we need to dive below that threat and once well away from danger, woosh upwards as the parachute opens!
And then the wild blue yonder beckons 🙂
With our own St Andrew’s cross blasoned across!
(I do hope daft old John Bull puts down the free drinks and nuts and dons a parachute too before all is lost)
Man, it is scary the amount of cognitive neuropsychology I’ve forgotten. 🙁
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0309132518777624
Yesindyref2 @ 5.30 pm
Yes! I like that 🙂
Schrödinger’s Cat,
I agree. What I have been posting here for some time.
Every election from now on should have the SNP campaigning on one thing – Independence. Everything else (monarchy, currency, Trident, etc.) can be postponed until that is achieved.
If a majority is achieved and Westminster refuse to recognise the will of the people then the EU and the UN will be on our side and Westminster will back down.
Don’t get bogged down in details as in 2014. It only gives the MSM more fronts to attack us on.
Keep it simple. They say we are obsessed with independence anyway so why bother to deny it.h
sassenach
Are you not concerned the the senior ranks of the SNP appear to have bought into believing it possible to change sex? No leadership is infallible, IMHO.
CameronB Brodie said:
“Man, it is scary the amount of cognitive neuropsychology I’ve forgotten.”
Me too, CamB, me too. 😉
Johnny Cash-“I Forgot to Remember to Forget”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g50Dyetr_k8
I hope you’ve all had a great day and go onto have a fantastic party tonight.
‘Stornoway set to join the Yes movement with first indy march and rally.’
http://www.thenational.scot/news/17601526.stornoway-set-to-join-the-yes-movement-with-first-indy-march-and-rally/
‘Outer Hebrides (Stornoway) March’.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRUr03fjEe0
David 😉
Gary Another poll from Survation last week had Yes to leaving the UK on just 36%, it depends on the question asked
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1121817890800525312?s=20
How’s about a poll that asks do Britnats lie and lie all the time about nearly everything. Now that would be a question to ask that we know the answer to.
Britnat polls lie because Britnats lie.
@call me dave / Ghillie
Yes it is, it’s perfect. Some want it on day 1, some want sterlingisation, I want both in parallel. All of us should be happy with that, as with the preparations starting after a YES vote, it can go whichever way is decided then, not before. If the pound slides as people think with Brexit, then perhaps no way with that!
Meanwhile the SNp can proceed with the SGC as the front and centre plan, and those who don’t like it can say “Yes, this is the current plan, but it could change before Independence Day if neccessary, this would be my preference.”. Perfect. I’m so happy 🙂
@cirsium
I’m not an SNP member, but if I was and a delegate and had properly understood the Brown / Mackay amendment, presuming that’s the D option, I’d have voted against A, B and C but for D, same as most other people – and the result.
flexielasticystretchheeee indeed!
Ian Brotherhood says:
27 April, 2019 at 5:27 pm
‘I’m not the only one who has all-but stopped commenting here, but that has nothing to do with personal commitment to indy.’
LOL! I know how that feels. Totally agree, Ian. I haven’t commented in a while – why? Because really …hee-haw is happening here in Scotland. and that’s not a bad thing, because it’s not Scotland tearing itself to shreds – it’s England!
Thing is, technically, I would say that Scotland is still stuck in the ‘Phoney War’. While fury erupts each time someone in England makes a point, it’s all quiet here in Scotland. Until Westminster finally decides to actually remove the UK from the EU, we’re sitting here in Scotland waiting for something to happen. And that is also not a bad thing, because even a few folk I know who were (soft) ‘No’s’ last time are sick to the back teeth of British politics being stuck in stalemate, with them even acknowledging the problem is England itself (…hey! all good there then).
I would say for a good many folk who like the idea of being British, is the now continual drip-drip-drip notion of a failing British State. To be honest, I’m expecting the rhetoric from down south to grow with more emphasis on the ‘English electorate voted for Brexit …and we should be delivering it’. Once that little mantra is continually airplayed, it will hammer home in many more Scottish minds that England dominates this ‘Union of Equals’, that it will slowly begin to grate, especially when these same politicians begin to answer questions on what ‘England expects’ post-Brexit.
But overall, Ian, I think a few of us are just keeping schtoom at the moment and watching how events turn out. I still wish the SNP would push the ‘indy’ agenda much more just to muddy the Brexit waters (as well as annoy Theresa). The more the Westminster mob tell us ‘No, you can’t’, the more it leads to folk thinking ‘yes, we bloody well can!‘ But once a nation descends down the path of independence, it will happen. India is an excellent example of a nationalism that grew and grew until the British State finally realised that the game was up. Sooner or later, it will happen for Scotland. The polls keep going our way, inch by inch. Fair enough it’s only gone up 4 or 5% in the last 5 years …but it is going up …so we are winning little by little each day! And that is most excellent when you think about it.
Hope all is good anyway, mate!
PS …into the last month of my degree. Almost there LOL!!!
Well the BBC Scotland channel transmits 5 hours of Scottish content and 7 hours of London content daily (not the HD version as it has to wait for the kiddies to go to bed), maybe it’s just misnamed.
It’s basically BBC Two London with a few hours of opt-outs, mostly repeats or stuff that is going to be on BBC One Scot within a few days so they can say it is new content or a news programme that only news nerds are going to watch at 9:00pm.
Not even sure of the point of having a copy of BBC Two for the 7 hours, it’s already exists, why would I bother watching it on BBC Scotland. It is only so it can transmit FMQ’s on a Thurs, otherwise it is a pointless exercise.
If they transmitted the news at 10pm rather than 9pm I might give it a look rather than watching BBC One News (it rarely changes much compared to the one at six), but at 9 there is no chance.
@HYUFD
Give up pal. the Survation question wasn’t and won’t be the Question in Indy Ref 2 – it will be the same as last time, a YES / NO – for which the YOUgov survey gave 49% YES with don;t knows removed, but more importantly with don’t knows included gave just 45% to NO. It;s the ScotGov have responsibility for setting the question – not the cheating distorted and desperate Scotland in Union!
Just 45% NO HYFUD, if that was the result of Indy Ref 2 with the don’t knows voting YES, you lose pal, you lose. And we win.
@Cubby
Seriously an excellent idea for Rev’s next poll.
“Do you believe Better Together lied in the first Indy Ref?”
“Do you believe the NO campaign will lie in this Indy Ref?”
Rev and The National to plaster the results all over the place.
“schrodingers cat says:
27 April, 2019 at 4:22 pm
been saying this for weeks. it seems so obvious, the only way to win indy is by a majority in a plebicite, whether that is by a referendum or an election is irrelevent”
There is no realistic way of doing it by election at least until the next Holyrood parliament.
A Westminster election won’t work as it is done by FPTP which is a undemecratic voting system and thus ruled out.
The EU elections would be too soon and local elections too far away.
Holyrood wouldn’t work as it is done by D’Hondt which is much better and fairer than FPTP but would be too complcated. You would have people voting twice and that is a recipe for confusion.We have tried before to get people to vote SNP 1 & 2 with mixed sucess.
The fairest election available (local one) would take us into the next parliament. Even so, I don’t think STV is designed for single issue politics.
You also have the problem that the unionist parties and media may decide to campaign on something else. They can’t do that in a plebescite.
Could the reason why there is BBC Scotland channel now is because some time in the near future Broadcasting will be devolved to Scotland?
Ah, that amenedment was from the SNP Dalkeith and District Branch.
Well done Dalkeith and District – that makes it acceptable to me, hopefully the likes of ScottieDog, and many others who want our own currency sooner than later.
And perhaps why it was unanimous for the motion.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17602643.snp-votes-to-set-up-scottish-currency-in-event-of-scottish-independence/
LOL
Robert Peffers would be delighted. Someone proposed it, someone seconded it, the Branch debated it, passed the Amendment. It was selected for the Conference, debated, members voted on it, a close count I believe, and it became part of the motion which was passed unanimously.
SNP democracy for you, which may just have won Indy Ref 2 for us.
Hi george wood at 8:11 pm.
You typed,
“A Westminster election won’t work as it is done by FPTP which is a undemecratic voting system and thus ruled out.”
That’s not what Maggie said.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9xDVS7XcAAox00.jpg
https://indyposterboy.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/forsyth_scottish_indy.jpg
CameronB Brodie @6-54
Not really understanding your comment about changing sex in relation to what I said, @ 6-08pm, about still thinking Nicola is our best bet for Indy at the present time ( based on personal contact and knowledge of her).
Do you agree that the SNP are the only party able to deliver Indy, as things stand? That’s why any future donations ( and votes) of mine will be going only to the SNP
And I’m long past the age of caring about sex changes, anyway!!
So so many people posting all manner of problems re having an election or a referendum. Problems problems difficulties. So many negative posts.
Poor old Scotland – the country that discovered oodles and oodles of oil and gas and got poorer.
Poor old Scotland – the country that seems to have a problem determining its people opinion on whether it wants to be a normal independent country.
Poor old Scotland – the country that cannot take a piss without Westminster’s permission.
Poor old Scotland – the country where the majority of its people are ignorant of their own countries history and rights.
Poor old Scotland- the country where people are fed lies every day by a media controlled from a foreign country.
Poor old Scotland – the country where big brother England takes all your money and gives you some pocket money back.
Poor old Scotland – the country where their fathers fought for freedom but people do not understand they are living in a prison called the UK.
Negativity everywhere.
independence is the solution. Independence is coming.
I’m glad the First Minister appears to recognise that Westminster does not deal in good faith with Scotland. I am also glad that her god-faith building exercise, appears to be going well with previous No voters.
How to Negotiate in Good Faith
https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/business-negotiations/negotiate-good-faith/
Cubby @8-41
Good post.
Until we finally start to dispel ideas of “the cringe” from vast numbers of Scots, independence will be on hold, unfortunately.
But it’s obviously taking time for a 300 year, incessant Scotland Baad from our colonial masters, to be reversed – but it’s getting better all the time I reckon.
sassenach
Sorry, it was the quote you were commenting on, that I was commenting on. As well as yours, I suppose.
Changing sex is impossible, yet it appears the cabinet is split over the matter. As such, it appears half the cabinet have bought into the reactionary pseudoscience of gender-ideology, as pernicious a cult as any. The SNP leadership are not divine and are not beyond criticism, is what I’m saying.
Oops. Good-faith exercise, not god-faith.
I’m not on Twitter or Facebook (like lots of others)and cannot get the conference live anywhere else. So it’s back to the BBC to find out what’s gong on.
Of course polls are corrupt that’s why they became so popular nobody gets poll results direct we all read the result of polls in various media outlets the polls are just another form of propaganda .
Yes the current poll could have been held over til Monday til after the Scottish independence conference but why would they want to do that ?
This latest poll shows YES just a little behind NO and undoubtedly that is a poor show for all us YESSERS because we know England’s Westminster is at an all time low and Scotland has been insulted and ignored so often by it this last couple of years that many people are genuinely baffled why more people are not supporting YES !!
The times know this poll is deflationary for Scottish independence supporters confidence
The times knows it will get Scottish independence supporters angry and arguing about this
That is precisely why they released the poll results today
To deflate
Polls are not just about the result
What is most important is who is being asked
And who is not being asked
16/17 yr olds will not be getting asked
The older pensioners who can’t use a phone will not be getting asked
People who drink too much or take drugs ( but nevertheless manage to vote ) will not be asked
There are many many groups who will not be getting asked and if you look at all those groups who are not getting asked you will with absolute certainty find that they are in the lower income lower status groups of this country.
So polls are corrupted by exclusion of fair representation
Just ask yourself this question
Have you ever been polled ?
Do you know anyone who has ever been polled ?
Nearly all of us will say no to both questions and that tells a story
It tells you that they ask the same people over and over
From the group they ask over and over they can choose
They can choose people that their existing records from previous polls show
are likely to change who or what they vote for
Are unlikely to change who or what they vote for
Polls and predictions in politics are now a weapon available to the highest bidder
Yesindyref2 Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question. The 2014 question was only agreed after Cameron and Salmond met at St Andrews House and signed it off in 2012.
Last time I checked even the 49% for Yes (44% including Don’t Knows) with YouGov was still under 50%.
More on why British nationalism is an unhealthy ideology to organise Scottish society around. Now I’m not suggesting folk strive to become cognitive neuropsychologists, but here’s some anyway for those that might want to dip their toe.
https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/6192/the-psychology-of-cultural-fit#overview
Technically speaking Britnats are liars and that includes you HYFUD.
Technically speaking Britnats are liars and that includes you HYFUD.
Never been polled and don’t know anyone who has been polled. Britnat pollsters polling Britnats. I would not believe one word that comes from Britnats. Britnats have been lying to Scots for centuries.
In the70’s Britnats said the oil would run out in mid eighties. 5 years ago Britnats were saying that the oil will run out in 5 years time. Well the original Brent and Forte fields from the 70’s are still pumping oil. Forte is reckoned to have another 20 years left. 30 new fields since 2014 have been discovered including Clair Ridge which is estimated to be the biggest ever and to run for 50 years. Licenses now being sold by U.K. for exploration north of Scotland estimated to last 100 years.
BRITNATS ARE THE BIGGEST LIARS IN BRITISH HISTORY. The word BRITISH should be synonymous with LIAR.
The Britnats only get away with lying because the media is controlled by the Britnats. Britnats a bunch of lying thieves. Yes that’s you FUD.
@yesindyref2 says: 27 April, 2019 at 8:20 pm:
” … Robert Peffers would be delighted. Someone proposed it, someone seconded it, the Branch debated it, passed the Amendment. It was selected for the Conference, debated, members voted on it, a close count I believe, and it became part of the motion which was passed unanimously.
SNP democracy for you, which may just have won Indy Ref 2 for us.”
Why would I be any more delighted by that than any other SNP conference vote, yesindyref2?
It is, after all how the SNP conferences have always worked?
As it happens I’ll wait to see how it pans out but if, as I suspect, the rank and file are pushing for a different currency than the Pound Sterling for no other reason than because they are under the impression, as so many Wingers also seem to be, that the Pound Sterling belongs exclusively to England and that England also owns the Bank of England then this octogenarian who has never voted other than SNP may not vote for them again.
Mind you I will vote for independence and to remain in Europe and will not vote for any other party. I’ll just not bother voting for MPs, MSPs or Councillors.
If, as I suspect, the rank & file have voted for all the wrong reasons then I’m out. Are they confusing the use of Sterling with being tied to the English pound is the question I now ask myself?
All modern currencies use the base 10. So, no matter what you care to call them, they have the basic note divided by 100. A pound composed of 100 pence or a dollar composed of 100 cents and so on. Provided the notes and coins are distinctive there is no problem and the name is irrelevant.
The real problem is whether your own currency is tied to another currency or not and thus if the currency you are tied to has control over your currency or you have control over theirs.
In the case of the United Kingdom the existing arrangement is that both Kingdoms in the union share a common central bank but legally that bank does not belong only to the Kingdom of England and that I fear is the fallacy that saw that vote in conference today.
I actually correctly saw this coming and posted upthread the part of the McCrone Report that frightened the shit out of Westminster and saw them hide the facts for decades. What it basically said was that after independence it would be the Scottish pound dictating the value of the English pound not as so many Scots seem absolutely convinced that the Bank of England is exclusively English and that the pound English would regulate the pound Scottish.
If that is the case then all that setting up different notes and coins and calling them other that pounds would do would be to cost Scotland a great deal of money to no effect. For the problem is not, notes and coins or what you call them but if you tie your new currency to another country’s currency that is stronger than your own.
Obviously neither McCrone or successive Westminster governments thought that an English currency would be stronger than a Scottish oil & gas led Scottish pound and it put the fear of death into them.
Incidentally I cannot remember how or where I got the information about the McCrone Report but I certainly knew what it contained even if I didn’t know it was called the McCrone Report. I can only assume I got the information such a document existed via someone in the SNP.
The people who will decide the Ref results are the peopke who never vote normally. The 25%+. They are off the radar and are not likely to be included in Polls. The Polls on Referendum in tight margins can be wrong. That is why the Pollsters get it wrong. Including the gerrymandering that goes on illegally. Colluded by Westmibster unionists. Lie, after lie, after lie. They make lying manifesto promises and then renege.
Condems 2010. Cameron promised to support the NHS. They cut it £4Billion a year from 2015 intended until 2020. May has had to put in more revenues to cover the cuts. Clegg promised to support education. They cut education £6Billion a year and increased fees. From 2015 to 2020. The SNP Scottish Gov Gas had to mitigate these cuts. Increasing fund from other budgets. MUP has been introduced which should save some monies. Still to be invested in SNHS.
Austerity is a total disgrace and totally unneccessary. Welfare was cut £3Billion a year over 6 years. £18Billion. The UK tax revenues have increased £95Billion in a year. From £533Billion to £628Billion (UK Gov accounts – internet). Scottish revenues raised have increase £4Billion a year. £56Billion to £60Billion.
Scotland always collects more tax revenues (pro rata) than the rest of the UK. More prosperous. It would be even better off not mismanaged by Westminister Unionists. Scotland loses £20Billion a years. HighTory taxes when the price of Oil had fallen. Losing revenues. 40% tax since Jan 2016. Tax evasion, financial fraud and Trident. All losing Scotland £Billions. Scotland has lost £Billions on Westminster illegal wars. High Tory/unionist taxes to pay for illegal invasions. For centuries. Westminster agreements reneged upon as soon as they were signed. Breaking International Law.
@HYUFD says: 27 April, 2019 at 9:17 pm:
” … Yesindyref2 Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question.”
Absolute twaddle, HYUFD. What you describe is actually what the Section 30 order really was. It was an agreement between Salmond and Cameron that both sides would abide by what they agreed and as to what the question asked was to be.
It held good for that agreement only and was not a law, a permission by Westminster or a template for any other referendum or plebiscite.
Furthermore it had ne relevance as to being a once in a generation thing. Laughably I read last week some idiotic Britnat , (cough!), journalist claiming that it was Nicola Sturgeon who made that throwaway remark. It was Salmond who said it and it was not only after the event but was stated as being only Salmond’s personal opinion.
@ Robert Peffers.
Spot on Robert, although I’m not dismayed or annoyed at the vote today, it as you say a misunderstanding of the current situation. I am however, delighted that conference has moved to separate the currencies at the earliest opportunity. The markets will be the first indicator, as McCrone rightly indicated they will move quickly to acquire the Scottish Pound putting much needed needed foreign currency into Scotland’s reserves. No need for a change of name for our currency, the markets won’t give a monkeys what its called, what’s important here is that conference has decided, and that’s now SNP policy, the currencies will separate quickly. Westminster will have sh## themselves today.
Cubby
Though the British nationalist narrative is clearly skewed and dishonest, I don’t think it clever to assume all who view the world this way are automatically dishonest. This is their perception of reality which is truly held, in most cases anyway. They are true nationalists. It is not there fault their heads are full of mince, but full of mince they are.
You are unlikely to convert such a mindset and given they only represent about 20% of the electorate, at most, is it worth the effort of trying? 😉
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5042136/
All this talk of the Edinburgh Agreement. You may find this interesting:
https://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/431/Christine-Bell-The-Legal-Status-of-the-Edinburgh-Agreement.aspx
By the way, did Ms Sturgeon not have a hand in drawing up/negotiating the terms of the Agreement?
Re currency.
There is certainly no need to change the name when we have our own currency. Scottish pound will do just fine and it will save a lot of confusion for the less aware.
Plenty of countries use the same names for their currencies. For example a dollar is used by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, USA, Hong Kong, and Singapore. All different values but all accepted as stable money.
It doesn’t matter what it is called as long as the markets trust it.
Currency could just be a name change. The Irish Republic shadowed the £pound for years. The punt. (Same value) Take a punt into a British bank get a £pound in exchange. Vis versus. Take a punt to an Irish bank get a £pound instead. Over the counter. No difference in value. Just a different name. Interchangable. Just like Scottish £pound/English £pound now. Interchangeable.
The Irish Rep has amazing growth. Best in the world? The Celtic tiger. (Compared to China) Chinese tiger growth. China best growth in the world by comparison. More prosperity. Scotland could have better growth with Independence and the economy being run better.
The Irish Republic joined the Euro 1997. Not very long ago, 22 years. A lower cost of living. High standard of living. Much better pensions/welfare benefits. Growth. The Irish Rep once had the highest number of second home owners (pro rata) in the world it was reported. Scotland has much better resources, revenues etc. Taken and mismanaged by Westminster.
£pound -Punt were interchangeable. Both of the same value. The Irish had a lower cost of living. Cheaper. A higher standard of living. More equality. Freedom of movement helped IR. Monies not wasted on illegal wars etc. The Troubles were detrimental. Westminster unionist illegal Partition of Ireland. For unionist votes and support at Westminster. DUP. Against International Law. Paisley is an embezzling crook.
DUP wasted £1/2Billion+ on a wood burning scandal. Burning £ notes. Most prices in Irish Rep are (pro rata) lower but some UK based shops charged slightly higher prices compared to UK same company prices.Things can be purchased in euros or £pounds. They must have to make exchange at the banks. Deposits. Just like in the UK prices are now noted, on clothes labels, as euros and UK pounds. With the price noted slightly differently.
It happens in the UK too, on clothes labels etc. In Asda, Tescos, M&S clothe lines etc. Especially in tourist areas for foreign visitors – trade. Duel labels. Accepting pounds currency or euro currency. The London banks make their biggest profits from currency exchange. The customers pay higher charges./fees. An argument for joining the Euro (if conditions were achieved). Less exchange costs and less red tape for business and the improved economic advantage. People paying by card can decided whether to pay in £pounds or euros. They is an automatic exchange on the credit machine used. Press a button.
DUP now claiming to honour power sharing once again at Stormont. To avoid more troubles, caused by Brexit. The Tories were warned.
@HYFUD “Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question. The 2014 question was only agreed after Cameron and Salmond met at St Andrews House and signed it off in 2012.”
No you dick, and that was the Edinburgh Agreement you’re talkng about, hence the term “Edinburgh Agreement”, it was in Edinburgh. Here it is:
https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0040/00404789.pdf
Why don’t you ever do research before being wrong?
Here’s the operative bit:
“The wording of the question will be for the Scottish Parliament to determine …”
And the Edinburgh Agreement is NOT the Section 30 Order – THAT is a change to the Scotland Act.
Well researched stupidity is still mince.
http://www.imedpub.com/articles/the-cognitive-basis-of-stupidity.php?aid=22070
Robert Peffers, Yesindyref2 The agreement made at St Andrews House in Edinburgh followed months of negotiations between the UK and Scottish government, including on what the question would be. The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum
Never ceases to amaze me the coincidence that when the cause of Scottish Self Determination is at its highest that the “Radical Left” manage to try and cause maximum damage to its public image and at the same time also managing to hand the BritNat Media some juicy PR photos to substantiate their Anti Indy preconceptions for maximum ‘Front Page’ effect.
https://mobile.twitter.com/alanferrier/status/1122130016421187584
Pricks.
Party Politics can wait until we are free then we will see how many votes Clerkin will get.
CameronB Brodie@10.36pm
Cameron. I have previously described how I see the Britnat pyramid of lies. The Britnats at the top of the pyramid who tell the lies to the rest below. The next layer below who know they are lies but are happy to accept the lies and pass them on as truths. Then the final layer of Britnats who have no idea they are being told lies.
The final layer are those who, in your words, “heads are full of mince”. Sorry but don’t agree they have no responsibility for ensuring their head is not full of mince/lies.
Also not trying to convert them. I am not a minister. Just a disgusted observer.
Cubby
And I’m sorry if I cam across a bit preachy, I just saw your comment as an opportunity to do a bit of shoehorning. 🙂
@Robert Peffers
“As it happens I’ll wait to see how it pans out but if, as I suspect, the rank and file are pushing for a different currency than the Pound Sterling for no other reason than because they are under the impression, as so many Wingers also seem to be, that the Pound Sterling belongs exclusively to England and that England also owns the Bank of England then this octogenarian who has never voted other than SNP may not vote for them again.”
Don’t be like that Robert, you’ve been your life in the SNP and probably won many battles. Perhaps the SNP would have not been as good a party as it is without you.
After Independence, whatever else is negotitated, buildings remain where they are as do all fixed assets, it’s movable assets get shared and movedif neccessary and agreed. A value could be apportioned, so for instance, the actual value of the Old Lady of Threadneedle street could be shared, but the building wouldn’t be taken apart and shared out brick by brick. Same goes for buildings in Scotland that are owned by the UK. This is according to the Vienna Convention on the succession of State Property which would be observed in at least detail parts as it makes life easier – whatever the actual status of the negotiations.
The rUK is unlikely to change the use of the Old Lady, so it would remain the Bank of England. Its reserves would be shared out, and if it has any interesting and valuable paintings as it probably does, their value apportioned the same. But it’s likely the rUK would also use it to control their currency, let’s call it the rUK pound.
Scotland would then set up our own central bank in Glasgow [1], Exchange Square and it would administer our curency.
The thing is this, if we have a new currency (perhaps with our old banknotes changed from promissory notes as legal currency, to actual legal tender), it has no connection to the rUK £, except perhaps by being pegged to it. The rUK has no control over this process, they can sit and twiddle their thumbs for all the good it would do them. The BoE would almost certainly buy Scots £, that’s what Centrtal Banks do – the cover transactions that take place in their country in foreign notes etc. to procide liquidity to their own businesses and people.
Or we continue to use sterling, a currency we jointly own as you say, and as Sturgeon & Co say. We do jointly own it, and in theory we can hold out in negotiations for it being split. Indeed, during Indy Ref 1 I wanted it valued as effectively a brand, and if we were “denied” a currency union as part of the nIndependence agreement between rScotland and the rUK, we’d get a share of the value. NIESR did consider its value as a brand and decided there was none. So the Internationally traded £ is worthless, except as a note that exchanges with other notes or gold. I don’t think so, it brings status to the UK.
But realistically our sharing the currency will be traded off for something else, sharing it after Independence really would not work at all, Scotland and the rUK would be pursuing different fiscal policies. So either we get it, or they do, and personally I’d prefer they get it. I don’t want UK sterling as our own currency, though “sterlingisation” is OK short-term to make it easier for those who can’t be bothered finding out how banks work and how to transfer their savings – and mortgages. In any case you’d want a transition time. Imagine if we got sterling as our own – and the rUK with 10 times the population sterlingised on us. It would be a disaster.
So, Robert, as long as we have able negotitators, Scotland WILL extract value in the aagreement between Scotland and the rest of the Untied Kingdom whatever it wants to call itsef like EWNI, probably just as they will extract value to allow the rUK, including HIFUD, to continue to call themselves the UK.
Personally I don’t want Scotland to continue to be called the UK, don’t know about anyone else, but it’s worth £££££££ billions. Probably – by agreement all of what would be our share of the UK national debt.
Show me the money, baby. And take your UK and sterling and do something with it.
[1] I’m a west coaster, of courses it’s Glasgow not Edinburgh
Yesindyref2@11.27pm
Now there are options here.
1. The FUD is stupid.
2. The FUD is lazy and incompetent.
3. The FUD is just another Britnat liar who likes to misrepresent.
I favour option 3.
The infamous vow ran a coach and horses through the Edinburgh Agreement. You cannot trust any of these Britnats.
@HYFUD “Robert Peffers, Yesindyref2 The agreement made at St Andrews House in Edinburgh followed months of negotiations between the UK and Scottish government, including on what the question would be. The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum”
No it fucking didn’t, you’ve just been told that and given a fucking link to check it out yourself.
No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it’s still a lie.
The proff you’re a pudding is in the link I gave, here it is again in case you’re even incapable of findong that posting again:
https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0040/00404789.pdf
Try reading it instead of vomiting a load of shite.
CameronB Brodie@11.53pm
No problem.
What I posted was entirely correct. There were months of negotiations on the question, including whether to have a 2 part question with a second on devomax which Cameron ultimately got dropped, before the power was handed over to the Scottish government to put the final single question into law
Yesindyref2@12.03am
I think he just confirmed my option 3. Just another Britnat liar.
OT Just read something interesting over on Craig Murray’s latest post on why no Swedish warrant for Julian Assange.
Comment by Sharp Ears:
” a second on devomax, which Cameron ultimately got dropped, ”
He then introduced it when it suited him via the infamous vow. You cannot trust the Britnats to honour anything a bunch of liars.
BTW you can watch “The Fifth Estate” on Amazon Prime. It will cost £3.50 to rent. But it’s worth it. Benedict Cumberbatch plays Julian Assange and he is absolutely brilliant in the role. A great actor.
@JLT(7.52) -4
Hoots aplenty mister!
More power tae ye.
🙂
@HYUFD
Which isn’t what you said first, now is it? Here it is for those unable to follow your writhing and slithing in an attempt to escape the consequences of your lies:
1). “Technically not true, it is the Scottish Government AND the Westminster Government who have responsibility for setting the question.”
WRONG
2). “including on what the question would be.”
WRONG
“The UK government then agreed to allow the Scottish government to go ahead and put forward that question in the referendum”
WRONG, and in your wet dreams, pal!
@Cubby
Sadly I think it’s all 3 options. but option 1 means he fails to recognise the total abject miserable debilitating contemptible failure of option 3 beacuse of option 2.
HYUFD
You are a lying prick. Away back and read your own posts.
HYUFD
For an educated chap, your ethical reasoning appears to be unhealthily utilitarian in nature, so here’s some moral philosophy to get your head around, Toryboy.
https://www.sorenkierkegaard.nl/artikelen/Engels/133.%20Kierkegaard%20from%20the%20point%20of%20view%20of%20the%20political.pdf
P.S. I’m not trying to force religion on anyone, I’m not religious myself. I’m simply pointing to a particular perspective that might help understand how British nationalism impinges on the Scottish identity.
@Cubby
One thing we need to say about HYFUD, he doesn’t lose his cool! Even while being a non-stop diarrhoea (thanks google for the spelling) of FUD and fact-free “UK is oh so superior and Scotland is shite” nonsense.
re polls:
It’s true that polling companies don’t poll those who don’t vote, take drugs, etc etc, but this isn’t the point of polls.
The important thing is to view them as a whole rather than one at a time.
If a polling company has a list of people in Scotland who have agreed to answer questions related to voting intentions, it’s the trend over a period of time, that gives a picture of how people are feeling about politics in Scotland.
If the results show a like for like increase for Yes, as this Times commissioned poll does, then the trend is towards Yes, which should be great news.
However we then have to ask the next question, which is:
Is this trend likely to continue?
Will more people switch from No to Yes or No to Don’t know then Yes etc.
Make no mistake the yoons will be crapping themselves when they see this poll and ask themselves the question I pose above.
This ‘trend’ will indeed continue, and with Yes only needing a 1% swing to draw level in the polls, then you can safely assume we are beginning to build the thing that Yoons fear most…
Momentum!
@ Capella says at 12:13am …… “We are all Julian Assange!…”
Big thank you for your post Capella and the link to Nicky Reid’s article. Well worth reading in full.
You read that article and then wonder about the state, dregs, of journalism in Scotland that’s somehow managed to produce a cabal of out and out cowardly liars that are doing their utmost to suffocate us and our country to death. Paid to do so by Westminster?
Scotland renowned the World over for producing individuals to be proud of: brave, innovative, adventurous, outspoken and more than anything being known to be honest and using all of their decent and humane traits to fight against injustice and unfairness. And then you take a look at the mediocre dross that’s calling the communicative shots in Scotland and wonder what we ever did to deserve this lot. No Nicky Reid’s or Pilgers hanging out here, rather a bunch of bl**dy lazy, sponging, copy and paste artists taking orders from the Union Head Office.
One day when we get our Independence, in the very near future in fact, they’ll be outed for what they are and will be remembered, for all time coming, by all of us who have lived through this. We won’t EVER forget and will ensure that future generations of Scots will remember them too when we set up our Hall of Shame. If they think that they’re going to get away with this they’ve got another think coming.
@Petra
“when we set up our Hall of Shame”
Personally I wouldn’t want that at all. It could and would be in history books, even in museums, but not “mainstream”. I want a positive iScotland, not one looking back at grievances.
“If they think that they’re going to get away with this they’ve got another think coming.”
Same as above, who would really care? We’ll be too busy builidng the Scotland we want, one which engages eagerly with the rest of the world and seeks to change things for the better both at home, and abroad.
Confucius he say: “Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves”.
Here’s one from someone who’s brain had to actually physically heal from serious traumatic injury, and who knows a thing or two about reconstituting the “self”.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3856773/
Yes we’re all looking forward to a positive future YesIndref2, a fresh start, but that doesn’t mean that we should go forward by just forgetting the past. More than anything the people of Scotland deserve to be informed. Informed as to why, how and by whom, they have been subjugated for centuries now. How they were manipulated and brainwashed.
Confucius says …
Forget about Confucious and Google “our past history informs our present. We can learn from past mistakes” and so on.
It wouldn’t be our focus, far from it, but something that would / should be dealt with through exposing these people in documentaries, books and so on. Not necessarily mainstream and not due to being revengeful either. More a case of enlightenment for the masses plus sending out a warning to future “journalists” that an Independent Scotland won’t put up with any form of propaganda.
hootsmans running a poll to see when people want the indyref sorry can’t archive , can someone archive please
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-when-would-you-like-indyref2-to-be-held-1-4914459/amp?__twitter_impression=true
The “social self” does carry a lot of historical baggage, whatever culture you care to look at. History is a lattice-work of ‘conspiracies’ and politics and stuff. British culture has simply been unable to transcend its’ colonial baggage, and now we face the cultural shame of the full-English Brexit.
Self-Determination Theory and the
Facilitation of Intrinsic Motivation, Social Development, and Well-Being
Human beings can be proactive and engaged or, alternatively,
passive and alienated, largely as a function of the social conditions in which they develop and function. Accordingly,
research guided by self-determination theory has focused on the social-contextual conditions that facilitate versus forestall the natural processes of self-motivation and healthy psychological development. Specifically,
factors have been examined that enhance versus undermine
intrinsic motivation, self-regulation, and well-being.
The findings have led to the postulate of three innate psychological needs-competence, autonomy, and relatedness-
which when satisfied yield enhanced self-motivation and mental health and when thwarted lead to diminished motivation
and well-being. Also considered is the significance
of these psychological needs and processes within domains
such as health care, education, work, sport, religion, and
psychotherapy.
https://selfdeterminationtheory.org/SDT/documents/2000_RyanDeci_SDT.pdf
Sorry, I thought I’d formatted that one. Night, night.
Economic Identity and Professional Self-Determination
https://www.atiner.gr/journals/social/2014-1-1-6-Antonova.pdf
It is a good time to be alive, Scotland is about to regain its freedom and the majority of Scots will vote for freedom and Scotland will revert back to being a normal country again.
The momentum for freedom is building and the the yoons are shitting themselves.
You have to know the past to know where the world is going. People from the past fought to make a better world, The EU formed to stop war and starvation in Europe/world. Good trade, social Laws etc. Advances in medical science. Scotland at the forefront. Scottish invention shaped the modern world. Telecommunications, The internet, A proud history. Quite a feat for a relative small number of people. Education supported religiously for the curious.
Declaration of Arbroath. The Enlightenment. Emancipation. Democracy. One person one vote. Supposed to be equality. Not one person multiple votes (PR) to thwart Democracy in Scotland. The lack of Democracy in Scotland for years. Recognised worldwide. EU/UN principal principles of self determination and self governance. It should not be overruled by imbecile liars at Westminster. Soon to be gone?
Assange had better be freed by the imbeciles at Westminster or else there will be a total outcry of protest worldwide. They have already locked up too many innocent people. In Scotland as well.
The truth sayers do all the world a favour. The murdering warmongerig lying governments breaking every Law in the book. They should be brought to justice and they are through the Courts, sometimes. Not keeping their criminal actions secret under the lying Official Secrets Act. People have a right to know of injustice. A cabel of liars breaking every Law/rule in the book and getting away with it. Honours for scandals. Abusing children. Cable knew and did nothing. Along with the rest of them. The dirty dossiers destroyed.
The Tories will get their comeuppance soon for illegal Brexit. The total mess and shambles. A public disgrace. In the wilderness for years or out of place forever? The average member 70 year old male. Keeling over to oblivion. Squealing like rats in a sack. May will be greeting. Awful, vindictive person. Holding the young back.
The up and coming elections will decide their fate. Wait for the backlash. The Tory ‘psycho bastards’. Their own description and proud of it. Screwing up the economy. Sanctioning and starving people. Thy do not care. Hard hearted. Cruelly de Ville will be off. Did not last as long as Thatcher. Odds on it. Idly poll the possibilities. Easy copy. Cop out. Irrelevant changes. Not complete.
Iraq War, Lockerbie, Dunblane kept secret for 100 years. A total muck up of democracy.
Amazon, Netflix, Google, Facebook do not pay taxes and muck up the world. Create total inequality of monopoly. The EU are coming after them. That is why the Tory Brexit happened. Tax evasion on a massive scale at the heart of UK Gov. 10 Downing Street. The heart of the corrupt polling system. Polls are used to manipulate and influence the vote. Often wrong on tight margins. Too many times to be accurate. Breaking Purdah rules.
MSM tax evaded. Non Dom owners mucking up the world. Murdoch away with £30Billion. An international crook. Bribing public officials, illegal hacking and surveillance. Supporting illegal wars based on lies. Knowing propaganda.
Amazon/Washington Post. Total hypocrite. They should be made and obliged to pay their taxes and their fair share. Illegal hypocrites. Gates restrictive, unfair trading practices. Corrupt corporate behaviour. Classed as a ‘saint’, by classless people. Even Buffet can’t give it away. They can’t take with them. The eye of a needle. Never out of religion but causing havoc.
OT but I have had trouble getting on to the site . Eventually went into Twitter and picked up with this cartoon.
When I try to refresh the page I get a ‘can’t securely connect….’
Worried!
Links
https://www.gov.scot/news/families-and-community-learning/
https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/04/landmark-yougov-poll-suggests-snp-are.html
https://thoughtcontrolscotland.com/2019/04/27/shock-nhs-scotland-has-50-more-nurses-per-head-of-population/
Interview with Gordon Ross
http://www.pilaraymara.com/2019/04/interview-with-gordon-ross-indy-car.html
https://www.snp.org/michael-russells-conference-opening-speech/
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/04/25/philippa-whitford-rebuilding-trust-in-immunisation-is-key-to-tackling-vaccine-hesitancy/
https://bylinetimes.com/2019/04/25/the-rising-star-of-scottish-politics-in-the-dock-of-the-sheriffs-court/
https://www.barrheadboy.com/the-die-is-cast/
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2019/04/24/tory-mp-earns-85k-from-an-armed-forces-charity-yet-voted-to-cut-support-for-soldiers-bereaved-families/
Thread:- Covering the 24th week of the #GiletsJaunes protests against the corrupt Establishment, which will continue today despite the massive Police Brutality & Western Media Blackout designed to discourage & suppress them.
https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/1122088911944192000
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/higher-fees-for-eu-students-at-english-universities
Brexit: Labour to reprint European Parliament election leaflets
http://archive.fo/RKNS8
DWP Carers Allowance ‘crackdown’ will harm thousands – who save the government BILLIONS
http://archive.fo/jsLea
Home Office investigated over English test cheating claims
http://archive.fo/Nr1AA
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/public-perceptions-skill/
https://www.rte.ie/news/us/2019/0427/1045993-us-arms-treaty/
There is something funny going on posts are not getting through. Has something compromised Wings. Or are evil forces at work.
To Robert puffers…
I disagree with you.
I agree with you that England don’t own the pound or the Bank of England but that is not the point.
The point is who controls it.
England controls Westminster
England controls the Bank of England
Scotland has zero control over what Westminster does
Scotland has zero control of what the Bank of England does
Because of this Scotland has zero control of its economy
Therefore it serves no purpose in the discussion to pick up on people who say the Bank of England and the pound is owned by England ,nitpicking the point they are making about Scotland having zero control goes against the grain.
We are all supporters of Scottish independence let’s not have an internal competition on who is the most ardent independence supporter or the most knowledgable
Morning Ken500,
I had a little trouble refreshing but links posted fine and quickly.
I am not a twitter person so forgive me posting this on here.
Do those pea brained idiots waving an anti English banner at the Conference not realise how much damage they are causing the SNP.
[Perhaps they are Unionist plants in which case we have allowed them to score valuable points]
I know at least five English folk in my small village neighbourhood who are strong independent supporters.
Forget about the Scotsman/Johnstone Press and their ridiculous Polls. Losing revenues and readership, hand over fist. Colossal debts depriving pensioners. Looking for some cheap, dishonest publicity. Discredited and dishonourable. Corrupt Tax evaders. MSM rubbish. Not worth the paper it is written on.
Thank goodness for the Internet. For exchanged information. Not controlled by Westminster.
Thanks Nana, Rev Stu Hope you are fine.
As much as I want to be out of the UK, I can’t understand why the SNP would go to the trouble of legislating for another referendum and then get no further forward with that when T May or Johnson or whoever says “No” or even “Now is not the time”.
Would SNP really then instigate a Court case to get a decision on whether Scotland has the right to hold a referendum. That could take months or even years if they do what the regime usually does which is to kick the can down the road and just keep kicking it.
Why expend all that energy when the next Holyrood election will be in May 2021.
Is anyone else as puzzled as I am with this strategy?
Good luck to all the, over 5000, cyclists doing the Etape Loch Ness,
66 miles round Loch Ness with a 9 mile climb in the middle,
maybe that is where the missing BBC Scotland cameras are,
or more likely they have been taken to London (like every other thing)to film the marathon.
Patrick Roden…
pollsters have a database of people polled which is many times the size of the number they poll .
each time carry out a poll they choose from their database who will be in this batch
They can also choose who will not be polled
it’s very easy for them to predict who in their database continually gives the same answer and who is likely to change from time to time.
It is also very easy for the pollsters to pick out a batch for polling that continually gives the same answer
Pollsters employ statisticians too
Their job is to compile statistics showing who is polled , what their answers are ,if they ever change their answers , if they never ever change their answers etc etc
It’s very very easy then to look at the statistics and choose a batch of people from the database knowing in all likelihood what the answer to the question is going to be from those people
polling is corrupt it’s propoganda it is targeted to get predetermined answers to a particular question
@Gullaneno4
These are the pea brained idiots
https://twitter.com/alanferrier/status/1122130016421187584
English Scots for Yes did this
https://twitter.com/EnglishScot4YES/status/1122268996752089088
Scotland is badly served by BBC propaganda.
Heres a wee game. I’ve just searched the BBC website for a few things
https://twitter.com/ScotlandPhotos/status/1122214800438779904
@yesindyref2 says:28 April, 2019 at 12:00 am:
” … After Independence, whatever else is negotitated, buildings remain where they are as do all fixed assets, it’s movable assets get shared and movedif neccessary and agreed.
You have just demonstrated exactly why I now have my reservations about voting SNP MPs, MSPs and councillors into office as doing so would be following the really stupid rank & file SNP voters. Let me point out some of that in your reply.
You imagine that the Bank of England is an old building in the Independent City of London. This, “City of London”, is rather different from London the city. It not only has its own Mayor and council and runs itself but it has a person who sits close to, but physically higher, than the Speaker of the house of Commons and is never mentioned in commons reports. He is, “The Remembrancer”, and is not elected by the people but is from, “The City”:-
https://fromtone.com/who-is-the-the-remembrancer/
Go read that cite to the link and you will read that the United Kingdom Parliament has no authority over, “The City of London”, but the City of London had some form of, never mentioned, authority over the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
So there you go – the Bank of England is now an, “Arms Length”, company that had remained a private company until 1946 when the United Kingdom Government nationalised it but allowed it to remain autonomous. The Bank of England is not an old building in the old walled, “City of London”, it is a company owned by the United Kingdom Government and when Scotland becomes independent Scotland owns part of that company.
The rest of your comment is riddled with fallacies like there being an rUnited Kingdom – there cannot legally remain any kind of rUnited Kingdom because the United Kingdom, as formed by the Treaty of Union only has two partner kingdoms and when the Kingdom of Scotland disunites the United Kingdom what remains is the independent Kingdom of Scotland and the independent Kingdom of England. Furthermore the Westminster Parliament, being legally The Parliament of the United Kingdom is not the legally elected Parliament of England and as there is no legally elected Parliament of England The United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster ceases to exist.
Legally, under English law, The Queen of England is legally sovereign, and thus does as monarchs of England have always done, commands Their Majesty’s choice of Her Majesty’s Prime Minister to her presence and commands that person to Form Her Majesty’s Government of England. The office of Prime Minister is legally an Officer of the Monarchy not legally appointed by the parliament but chosen by the monarch.
So you really are basing your ideas of what the Bank of England, the Pound Sterling, the Westminster United Kingdom Parliament, and so on, upon myths and legally untrue ideas.
Now here is a few other little flies in your notions. Upon independence not only can Scotland demand seats on the board of the Bank of England to which Scotland will then be part owner but Scotland can, as it says on those special high value Bank Notes that Scottish Banks have deposited with the Bank of England, On demand at the head office, (The Old Lady of Threadneedle Street), the entire value of all Scottish bank notes in circulation. Now in what currency will the Bank of England have to pay those deposited value Scots banknotes?
Here’s another wee fly in your ointment. Scotland also owns part of the Royal Mint and just where is this NEW currency of Scotland going to get it’s new coinage struck and it’s new notes printed?
What a totally expensive and totally unnecessary way to go when all that was required was to keep the SCOTTISH Pound Sterling but to choose whether to tie it with the English Pound Sterling or not to tie it to the English Pound Sterling.
So consider this – the McCrone Report correctly informed the Westminster parliament that upon Scottish independence the independent Scottish Pound Sterling, if tied to the English pound Sterling, would harden against the English pound to the extent as to be, “embarrassing”. The truth is that if the independent Scottish currency was tied to the English currency it would be the Scottish pound that would dominate the English pound and McCrone, like so many other Scots, just didn’t mentally think that Scotland owned part of the Bank of England and assumed there would be no Scottish influence on the Bank of England board.
After all wasn’t it called the Bank of England? Indeed it was – trouble is that in spite of being called the Bank of England it has never actually belonged to England.
So there you have it – you, along with most other people, cannot shake off the wrong facts that the Westminster Parliament is legally the Parliament of England, that the Bank of England belongs to England and that Scotland is leaving behind the rUnited Kingdom.
That is what is known as Brain washing. Do you also believe in Leprechauns, fairies and Santa Claus?
The £Billions of public funds deposited in the BoE by Scotland. Scotland more than pays it’s way. The funds/monies could be deposited in Scottish central bank in an Independent Scotland.
If Scotland was Independent and Scottish funds were still deposited in the BoE (shared currency). Scotland would have a proportionate say in it. Or withdrawn the monies/funding, necessary to stabilise the UK (shared) currency. Scotland (Gov) would have a big say in it. To secure the currency and economic policies. More than Scotland does now in the UK Union.
Scotland would be in credit. Always has been. Records show. The rest of the UK is always in deficit. Proven bad mismanagement of the UK/British economy by Westminster unionists. Since 1928 and before. Appalling policies to get them elected in to power. Lies and lying manifestos. Reneged upon immediately.
The recognised economic North/South divide. Westminster illegally and secretly taking monies and revenues from Scotland to fund London S/E. illegal wars, Trident, HS2, Hinkley Point, London financial fraud, tax evasion. The list is endless. Add on and on. To deprive Scotland and advantage unionist political parties. Westmibster unionist political parties know they do not need Scottish votes to get elected. They have depopulated Scotland with their policies.
Kept secret under the Official Secrets Act. Iraq War, Dunblane, Lockerbie kept secret for 100 years. The people have a right to know in the public interest.
Mr Peffers keep on voting SNP. The vote is just irrelevant. Currency is just a name. The leadership know this fact. They are still in charge. They will do the necessary to keep on track. Scotland is a different place under SNP governance. Major improvements.
Do not get disillusion Scotland is still in excellent hands. One vote does not make a difference in the grand scheme of things. The leadership voted in are smart, experienced, committed people. It will not go awry.
Keep the patience and the faith. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. It is nearly over the line. Never give up. Have a little patience.
They are not saying ‘English people’ get out of Scotland. They are saying Westminster Gov get out of Scotland. Slightly different. Questioning power and control. A disproportion representation. Slight misrepresentation but not the end of the world. Like ‘Tories out’. A euthanism used against Westminster control in Scotland. Used for years in UK/Britain against Westminster policies. Universal.
All the major activities at the SNP conference will appear on the internet. It is just a wait and see. A waiting game. The BBC – Westminster can’t control the internet. They would like to. Trolling the people. They are going down, down, down. Into oblivion. They know it. Polls show it. They are finished in Scotland. SNP still rising according to the questionable ‘Polls’ Probably higher.
The tank commander will be back to troll the public. To no avail. Liars always get found out. Big time.
The Conference only really gets going from two pm. Two days + Fringe meetings It is an intermediate conference. It will all appear on the internet shortly. All the important points.
No one will watch the Tories/unionist.Except for a laugh. No one will be there, in Scotland. A complete waste of time, money and space. Irrelevant.
The SNP Party Conference is on BBC Parliamentary Channel at 3pm. Live? It can be recorded.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157206527532863&set=p.10157206527532863&type=3&theater
Nae harm done naebudy got trampled in the rush tae the bar .
When I posted my link to the Julian Assange article last night I got a “this page isn’t working” message – which was a completely knew one for me. So I clicked the back button and reposted and that worked OK. No idea what is going on.
@ Petra – absolutely agree about the dire drivel which passes for journalism in Scotland. Listened to RScotland resident toff Katie Grant quoting Euan McColl sneering at the SNP conference and saying Scotland would have to join the Euro, so all this “taking back control” is a bad thing. The newspaper review allowed them to quote the headlines claiming the SNP leaders were defeated over currency.
Fortunately, Andrew Tickell was there to tell everyone the Euro myth was a popular misconception. Otherwise the GMS agenda managed to bypass the SNP conference. I suppose it’s in Edinburgh so it’s too far away for the BBC to cover.
For info @Gullaneno4
Those pea brained idiots are Scottish Socialist Party and Scottish Resistance numpties.
Usual useful idiots of the ‘Radical Left’ trying to damage the SNP and Independence movement in general.
@ Nana – great to see you back with the links. This one is fun:
Heres a wee game. I’ve just searched the BBC website for a few things
https://twitter.com/ScotlandPhotos/status/1122214800438779904
I just searched the BBC site for Scottish National Party conference. The response lists the Labour party and the Liberal party conferences! Also the National Treasures of Wales, national Health stories etc.
Bizarre.
If for no other reason this:
The UK and the BBC have stated quite clearly the SNP are a regional party…..That’s a lie, because in stating that they’ve endowed England with the title UK..United Kingdom thus implying Scotland is a region of who exactly,….well!
It’s insulting it’s incorrect and it’s just a downright blatant lie, Scotland is the UK well one half of it, because there can be no UK without Scotland so how can it be possible Scotland is a region of itself
Nobody in their right mind would call France a region of the EU or Belgium or any of the *countries* of that Union
yet here in Scotland the BBC and the Parliament of the UK are pleased to announce that the Scots are so stupid they haven’t even noticed by how much they can be insulted and made fools of
Unionists in Scotland are delighted to be treated in this way because most of them are too stupid to notice or care that the country they think they look to for loyalty and broad shoulders (England) thinks of them as morons
Whatever Unionist beliefs some may have based on religion or Royalty just remember those are not the beliefs held in the corridors of power in England they’re only the tools they use to control tools like you to keep people like them always better off than you, and keep you paying for it
If you believe Scotland is a region then who are you, what are you, Theresa May put it quite clearly, *You’re a citizen of nowhere*
Conference live on Youtube now. Joanna Cherry just got a huge welcome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_gs9cs8vg
It is odd that the British nationalists who state that Scotland is a ‘region’, don’t know how to respond when confronted with the reality that if that were true, then by the same argument England is not a country but merely a region too.
We are wrong to call it ‘british’ exceptionalism, it is in fact English exceptionalism, with a veneer of colonialism.
Morning Capella, Thank you, I was back yesterday. See old thread from 8.05am for some interesting links.
There may be days when I might be late with links so best to keep an eye on previous threads as I wouldn’t want to disturb new ones.
For anyone interested in Citizens Assemblies you can find out more about these processes in this open access publication
http://whatworksscotland.ac.uk/topics/mini-publics/
SKy nonsense
Conference is mobbed as usual. Totally spectacular. Massive support
A C Bruce at 0918am,
I agree with your analysis. I have become very dislusioned with the SNP leadership. They know full well a section 30 is not needed and also will NOT be given.
So come late 2020, the pretence of asking for a section 30 takes place AGAIN!, and it is them refused AGAIN!. SNP leadership then say, well, we could go to court etc.. and fight this, but why not just use the 2021 elections to get a mandate for a referendum.
This of course completely misses the fact that the current Scottish government already have a rock solid mandate for a referendum and it is being refused, so getting another mandate will have zero effect.
It is frankly delusional to assume, as the SNP appear to do, that somehow Westminster will turn around in the near future and say, hey, you know what SNP, you make a good sound, reasonable argument, you go right ahead, and have a referendum.
The definition of stupidity, is repeating the same actions and expecting different results.
I fully expect nothing new from the speech today. I expect lots of ‘woolly phraseology, like ‘I would like to see a referendum’, or of course ‘we must have a referendum’, and so on. What will not be said, will be ‘I shall call a referendum’.
Unlike others here, I no longer (I used to) subscribe to the notion that the FM has some great masterplan, that will be sprung, to keep Scotland in the EU. I’ve seen people telling me that since 2016. It went over many stages. ‘Oh once Nicola’s compromise offer is refused, she’ll call a referndum’. NOPE. ‘Oh once Scotland is excluded from brexit talks, then she’ll definitely call the referendum’. NOPE. ‘Oh once article 50 is invoked, she’ll definitely, definitely call the referendum’. NOPE. ‘Oh, once the withdrawal talks are concluded, she’ll call the referendum. NOPE. and so on….
I call that the ‘magic beans’ theory. Nicola has no magic beans.
At some point Scotland, Scots the SNP and Scottish government will need to sniff the coffee, and accept the harsh reality, that they can have as many democratic mandates and associated democratic ‘outrages’, as they like. Westminster is NOT listening, and frankly could not give a flying F.
Power is never given, it is taken. ALL history shows us that, especially in relation to Westminster.
Nana
Your links are one of the most important features of Wings btl. I for one would like to assure you that reposting your links on a second thread when more than one thread is current is NOT a disturbance. It ensures that they are not missed.
Streuth! Just visited Sky and caught some eejit introducing the D Lidington drivel and now we have B Taylor invited to comment and dis the whole idea of a referendum.
Time to end this disunited kingdom and get rid of the MSM as it now stands.
I have no idea if this particular programme has actually allowed the general public to see the SNP conference or is it content to have some front woman dribble on in anti independence / SNP/YES mode.
Just a wee reminder for any new visitors that the Irish Republic used the currency the Pound, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, the 2 countries Sudan and South Sudan, Gibraltar, Channel Islands, and Isle of Man.
Anyone who wants to use the Pound can do so, but as far as UK propaganda is concerned it’s anyone other than Scotland?
Are they sure that they love us or is it Loathe us.
Scottish runner Callum Hawkins looks like making a personal best
in todays’ marathon.
You may remember him leading much of the Olympic Marathon before
hydration took him out quite cruelly.
Great to see you back Callum.
Seems to pay tax in the UK too, Eh Mo.
@Terry callachan says: 28 April, 2019 at 9:05 am:
” … I disagree with you.”
Now why am I not surprised?
” … I agree with you that England don’t own the pound or the Bank of England but that is not the point.”
Matter of strict fact is Yes it is the point – and then some.
” .. The point is who controls it.
England controls Westminster”
Indeed it does – but so what?
Westminster is legally NOT The Parliament of the England because England has had no legally elected parliament since 30 April 1707. That means when Scotland disunites the United Kingdom it isn’t just The Kingdom of Scotland that becomes independent of the United Kingdom for there are only two partner kingdoms in the United Kingdom.
So the United Kingdom ends abruptly and The Kingdom of England has not had a legally elected parliament of its own since 30 April 1707. The Kingdom of England can no more claim the Westminster parliament as its own than can the Kingdom of Scotland. There simply are no legally elected Parliament of The Kingdom of England Members as there is no Parliament of England.
What evidence do you have that there are?
” … England controls the Bank of England
Scotland has zero control over what Westminster does”
Whoa! There, Terry. Listen carefully as I explain it, yet again.
The bank of England began due to a private subscription scheme to bail out the English Crown/Parliament. The grateful English crown/parliament granted that private scheme a Royal Charter as a private bank company called, “The Guvnor & Company of the Bank of England”, (so called because the English Crown/Parliament banked with it and not because they owned it). See Here:-
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/who-owns-the-bank-of-england
In 1946 The United Kingdom Parliament Nationalised The Bank of England but kept it as a kind of Arm’s Length company.
So the United Kingdom, not the Kingdom of England now owns the company still called, “The Guvnor & Company of the Bank of England”. Thus it is the Westminster Parliament of The United Kingdom that currently owns the company but it remains an arm’s length company and England only has more influence because England illegally runs the United Kingdom Government by virtue of England having a larger population.
However, upon the United Kingdom disuniting there will be no United Kingdom Government, (not even an rUnited Kingdom one), and there is no legal Kingdom of England government.
” … Scotland has zero control of what the Bank of England does
Because of this Scotland has zero control of its economy
Therefore it serves no purpose in the discussion to pick up on people who say the Bank of England and the pound is owned by England ,nitpicking the point they are making about Scotland having zero control goes against the grain.”
Rubbish! I’ve, for the umptienth time, just explained the true situation for you. Are you really attempting to claim the true legal situation is negated by a load of brain washed numpties taken in by propaganda from the unionist Westminster? Establishment?
Not only have I posted the truth on that score many times but i have, on this very thread, posted the bit from the McCrone Report that highlights that the facts about both the Bank of England and the Pound Sterling are well known by the Westminster Establishment. That conclusion told to them by Gavin McCrone had an instant effect.
That what I’m saying is correct is born out by succeeding Tory and Labour Westminster governments’ actions since the McCrone Report. It was immediately marked Top Secret and hidden away for decades and only released by a Freedom of Information act request. Go read it, Terry, it tells the tale. McCrone told them that if they allowed Scots to know the true wealth of the oil & gas it would lead to Scottish Impendence. Not only that but that if Scotland gained independence the Scottish Pound would influence the English pound by becoming far stronger than the English pound, (in other words the Scots pound would dominate), furthermore McCrone planted the idea that a way round Westminster keeping control would be for Westminster to claim the revenues as United Kingdom revenues and that led to the oil & gas revenues being categorised as being from , “United Kingdom Extra Regio Territory”.
Now go and google the meaning of the phrase, “Extra Regio”. I’ll save you the bother but do check my explanation out – The Office of National Statistics defines it as, “Not being identifiable as from any particular region”. However, up to 98% of those revenues comes from what is identified under the International Law of the Seas as under Scottish jurisdiction.
Splitting hairs indeed! What is correct – the legally provable facts or the brain washed impressions of a shower of numpties?
@ terry callachan,
you said: “polling is corrupt it’s propoganda it is targeted to get predetermined answers to a particular question”
Sorry bud, but that’s just ‘tin-foil-hat’ stuff, and for one simple reason:
If polling companies downplay the Yes or SNP vote, as some suggest in this comment section, the problem comes when the people actually vote.
Any polling company who fraudulently downplays the SNP support will look ‘unreliable’ at very best or ‘useless’ in all probability when the results come in, so who would believe that polling company in future?
Secondly and probably more importantly, look at what happened in our own indy ref:
We began to surge ahead a week before the vote and the reaction from Westminster and their MSM stooges was immediate.
Huge amounts of money, lies and effort went in to scaring the pensioners etc and we lost!
Why? because the Better Together campaign believed the polls were accurate enough to show that Yes was winning the argument.
Why would they believe the polls if they themselves were part of a big conspiracy to deceive people?
Why did Yes climb slowly? because the people of Scotland began to believe we would be better off with independence and the more people who thought this, the more it showed in the polls.
Another thing to bare in mind, is that all in all, polls do indeed reflect the final results of the vote reasonably accurately. Indeed their was a bit of an inquiry after the General election that had shown Ed Milliband, neck in neck with David Cameron, only for the Tory’s to win at a canter.
Why would politicians from all sides and the pollsters themselves, mention how badly the polling reflected the result, if they were involved in the kind of conspiracy you guys mention?
I have not one single ounce of trust in the Westminster establishment or Yoon politicians, and see them as a bunch of lying shysters, but in this instance I don’t think they are involved in this kind of gerrymandering, because it does not suit their own purposes.
Scotland in Union, however did try gerrymandering a poll recently by changing the wording of the question, and have been roundly ridiculed because of this, so it’s not beyond comprehension that yoons would try this, it’s just that it would be counter-productive for them if they did.
@
A C Bruce says:
28 April, 2019 at 9:18 am
” … Is anyone else as puzzled as I am with this strategy?”
Yes, A C Bruce, there are lots of other numpties, both here on wings and in the SNP rank and file, who all think they know better than the SNP leadership as yesterdays, (cough!), “defeat”, of the SNP leadership at conference proves.
@RobertLouis 11:27
I agree, Nicola Sturgeon is a gradualist but she is no fool. Gradualism is now beginning to look tired and unproductive if not unpopular with the faithful. If her scheme was to present a reasonable political face, she has done that. The system and its media are, despite that, as vicious, mendacious, divisive and colonialist as ever.
I would now expect the brakes to be released and the machine to let rip. The times are propitious.
R. L. @ 11.27 am. Yes, I shouldn’t be disillusioned as there has been good news this weekend with support rising. I just don’t see the timescale working. For me, I’m concerned at even a few more years passing by without independence happening – just due to my age really. I fear I won’t live to see it!
R Peffers @ 12.23 pm. You don’t know me and I’m far from being a “numpty”. I don’t particularly want to get into an exchange of insulting words with you as I appreciate your constitutional posts. I didn’t say anywhere in my post that I knew better than the SNP leadership but I’m still puzzled by a referendum in Autumn 2020 – and the resultant argy-bargy when S30 is refused -with Holyrood elections just a few months away from then.
If you have any insight and know what I’m missing here perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten me. Thanks.
@Nana
Good to see you Nana. Hope you’re keeping well. 🙂
Hi Macart, good to see you too 🙂
As well as can be Sam, but my temper could always do with tempering!
Independence or Union: Scotland’s Past and Scotland’s Present by Tom Devine
•ISBN-13: 978-0141981574
This is a good start for anyone looking to find a well regarded and researched history of Scotland in the the Union from a constitutional, legal and economic perspective.
There is not one historian, Academic or internet blawhard, who can tell the definitive story or answer the legal questions about sovereignty – they can only be done in a court and in the current legal context.
Anyone who says otherwise is a charlatan.
So please readers, think for yourselves. Read a book, read lots of books. Read lots of opinions. Ask people with credentials – REAL experts.
Do not rely on the posturings and bluster of internet know-alls, who claim their interpretation or opinion is fact. They seek to distract and browbeat you with their version of what is true. Ask yourself why would they do that?
@Nana
Know what you mean and *same*.
Posted a comment a wee while ago on Off Topic.
Dr Jim@10.52am
Good to see you back posting with a good post.
One from the world of international development, in support of intellectual pluralism and inclusive freedom-of-thought.
https://bulletin.ids.ac.uk/idsbo/article/view/2830/ONLINE%20ARTICLE
OK, back to cognitive neuropsychology and stuff. Here’s one to make a certain personality type a bit jittery. 🙂
Time for some “Action Theory”, which is crucial to contemporary theory of mind and stuff?
http://psychologyinrussia.com/volumes/index.php?article=4232
Thanks for the links Nana. I particularly liked Barrheadboy’s (8:51am) where he’s been asking Unionists to provide three reasons as to why we would want to remain in the Union and they can’t come up with ONE … surprise, surprise, … rather just using the opportunity to hit him with a load of dog’s abuse.
https://www.barrheadboy.com/the-die-is-cast/
And reading that caring, compassionate Westminster is planning to hammer English (and Welsh?) carers leads me to thinking, that where they can, they should wrap up their relatives (or stick someone in a wheelchair in their place) and take them down to the nearest DWP office. A planned event to take place all over England on the same day and at the same time with carer’s filming events at each office. Highlighting that England couldn’t do without these 826,000 carers … don’t have the requisite hospital beds, care homes etc to deal with the situation.
They are absolutely despicable and as Frank Field, Chair of the Commons Work and Pensions committee, says ..”They want to push these people into the kind of despair that causes mental imbalance and drives people towards death.”.. ”Death by benefit deprivation has been the Conservatives’ plan for many years and this is simply the latest stage of that plan.”
Nana says (8:52 am) ..”DWP Carers Allowance ‘crackdown’ will harm thousands – who save the government BILLIONS.”
http://archive.fo/jsLea
………………………….
@ Robert Louis says at 11:27 am … ”So come late 2020, the pretence of asking for a section 30 takes place AGAIN!, and it is them refused AGAIN!. SNP leadership then say, well, we could go to court etc.. and fight this, but why not just use the 2021 elections to get a mandate for a referendum.”..
Late 2020? Robert Louis I haven’t come across anyone saying (reporting on) that Nicola Sturgeon will make such a request in late 2020. I’ve been really busy this weather so may have missed something, if so please point me in the right direction. As far as I know, we have no idea when another Section 30 order will be requested, if at all. And I doubt that Nicola Sturgeon would leave anything until the end of 2020 (other than maybe holding IndyRef in the autumn – hopefully sooner), as if a Brexit deal gets passed we’ll only be remaining in the EU until December 2020.
I was also reading in the National that the Scottish Government has been taking legal advice over whether it could introduce legislation to hold a referendum without a Section 30 order and additionally that that Scottish Government lawyers have been developing advice on the legitimacy of a new vote on the Constitution. Although Constitutional affairs are reserved to Westminster, the powers were devolved to Holyrood as we know in 2014 under Section 30 of the Scotland Act. But the Scotland Act, which brought about the creation of the Scottish Parliament and set out which areas are reserved to Westminster, does not say powers over referendums are reserved. In legal terms it’s a grey area. The point that I think Stu goes on about.
In other words we have no idea what Nicola Sturgeon has been doing / discussing behind the scenes and what advice she has been given which means that we have no idea what she plans to do in the future. The what, how and when are unknowns at this moment in time, but not for much longer I would imagine, as a great deal can happen over the next few weeks alone which could change the dynamics markedly. I sense your frustration RL, as it’s in line with mine, but you have to believe that Independence is coming … Section 30 order or not.
RobertTheTruth@2.01pm
Ask yourself if anyone who styles themselves as the truth is likely to be telling the truth. Ask yourself why Mr Truth would post this attack on unnamed individuals.
C4 tonight.
After a piece on Sturgeons speech the announcer then says “the prospects of an independent Scotland in Europe might depend on Spain.” They then go for a lengthy report on politics in Spain and make no further mention of Scotland before moving on to another different report.
So no explanation at all as to why independence may depend on Spain. The propaganda is now just totally crap at times. Laughable – C4 full of a bunch of Britnat diddies.
@Cubby
Don’t you want to be better informed Cubby?
Why is it considered an attack to point out the failings of those who would misinform you?
What have I said that you take issue with? I have warned about swallowing hook, line and sinker unverified comment posted as fact.
There is a man called Kevin Hague who considers himself an expert on the economy of an independent scotland. He is intelligent, apparently, and well thought of by a group of devoted followers who use his words to counter proper argument by anyone who challenges him. He tells those people they are stupid and brainwashed and often resorts to insults. His devotees and clique then join in.
Ask yourself, is there someone on this board who reminds you of him? You might find the answer uncomfortable because you are on the same side.
All I am saying is beware of people who will not verify their facts and resort to bluster to try to persuade you. If that upsets you, I’m sorry.
RobertTheTruth@9.23pm
Not upset at all. That’s the truth Robert. You should change your name to the Riddler. That’s advice not the truth.
Here’s John Bull… different vessel, same situation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUrJ_Huk5so
Though no-one’s at the controls any more!
Use your EMERGENCY EXIT
THIS is as good as it gets (and this is with a pilot at the controls)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGHP4uGImX4
Brace for impact…
Outbound Flight ID: BRX-666 (you are travelling with UK Airways)
Destination: Terminal
Status: MAY-DAY EMERGENCY!
Suspect cause: Engine failure
Comment: Possibly ah double-bird strike (flying turkeys)
Action advised: Evacuate and deploy iParachute
Weather: Fair, fine and aye sunny
Ground: Good 2 firm and free
Here is how they’re hoping they will land when they Brexit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR4nKdMYKGc
Business as usual eh?
But Alas ma lass! For it was only in their destructive dreams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxvMw4FThNs
As real as it does seem
They could always try to land Flight ‘BRX-666’ like THIS…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLxB-g0h76c
Oh the speed bonnie boat (only theirs is an empty carrier!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMWVpS0CnrA
Ayes up tae and for the Skye
THIS is what it’s like to fly on UK Airways… Flight ‘BRX-666’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMnVs287AJ4
Dr Brodie makes an appearance 2 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_izvAbhExY
Put on yer belt and ye won’t need tae brace it
You betcha baby
Three good things happened tae me tae night
Ah guid friend gifted me
1) A book of Burns poetry (well spaced verses)
2) A new lamp, it’s green and spiky
3) A framed picture of the Declaration of Arbroath
The sign is NOW on the wall
Ah knew something was missing, aye have Cairnstoon Hamish on the left and ah candle on the right
Actually it’s Poems and Songs of Robert Burns, SO there
Ah’ve been reading some verse
Might try it on I.L. radio
Saturdayfest May ’19 is coming to ye Scotland
Get yerselves ower tae Glasgow
Take it on the run, JJ
That was an excellent REO transition to midnight…
“Ah don’t believe it” not furra minute doll
HARD cut to the News! 😉
“Peace, Love and Scottish Independence for all”
THIS NOW is this of all of where it’s at
Steady keel, steady as she goes
THIS TIME is gonna be beautiful
Do you like the rouge like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkxj-FBEH1w
Our excellent ladies do
In ye come bro
GOOD morning this is your in-flight cabin announcement iScotland
We are returning you to internet radio NOOOW
We’re taking control of it again
Come and join us
Do a turn
Poetry?
TURN it up, many fair n fine Peoples of Scotland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8CcTYsMHYU
Everybuddy is beautiful mwah haha!
Yes!
Ah Played this song ON the hour, following Indy Live Radio news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrS1H4uCV9A
Let me get lucky wae you
Ah LOVE ye
Ah Played THIS one on the evening of the hour 2, did U hear it Mary?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmFVzdHtM4
Alanis knows
Aweright yesindyref2, guid tae see ye back bro
Let’s do THIS!
We are all NOW ready for iScotland, don’t wanna lose nobody else
Buckle up bro, let them sort their ain braces oot!
X
Check THIS one out yesindyref2 like, steady as ye go bro
Ah played this one and then there was the news
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRYFKcMa_Ek
Listen to… https://indylive.radio/
Jist cause yer mwah is oan mah list, always be on a GUID list hehe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYUdldNzLNA
Love Love Love!!!
Yipeeeee x
Here’s how Franklin did it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgX3WT703CY (excuse the bad bullets)
Fly aye to freedom
International European Glasgow, calling Scotland…
Come and join us for some walkies
It’s tomorrow NOW!
A night nite song frae me 2 you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d73tiBBzvFM
Work it good ladies