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When the people have no bread

Posted on July 11, 2020 by

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    1. 11 07 20 08:56

      When the people have no bread | speymouth

    442 to “When the people have no bread”

    1. Breeks says:

      Wow. You are the master Chris, a true and genuine phenomenon.

      Where can you buy these pens with the telescopic sights? Can’t find ‘em on EBay…

    2. jimnarlene says:

      Nailed it

    3. Willie says:

      And eat cake they will. The economic Famine is truly yet to begin.

      But tes, the cartoon characterises the Tories exactly

    4. Willie says:

      And yes, isn’t eating out at the food bank just so chic! Fine dining indeed.

    5. Helena Brown says:

      We think that the riots of a few years ago will be seen as tame. It is beginning to dawn on some what they have got themselves into.
      Well put Chris, holidays are obviously good for you, but be careful now where you go, you are a treasure.

    6. Robert Louis says:

      A masterpiece of a cartoon.

      rishi Sunak, chancellor for the racist Tory party and reputed to be the richest man in the HoC, hands out restaurant discount vouchers for the wealthy, while folk queue up at foodbanks to feed their kids. ‘have a brioche, peasants’.

      Really sums up Tory ideaology. Like the French in 1789, perhaps we need a revolution too. Mibbes we need to get the old (and some say, original) guillotine in the museum in chambers street back into working order.

    7. Capella says:

      Is that the sound of tumbrils rattling up the cobbled streets of Westminster?

    8. Rishi Sunak worked (2006/2009) for hedge fund `The Children’s Investment Fund Management` (TCI) which forced the sale of Dutch bank ABN AMRO to Royal Bank of Scotland which resulted in the near collapse of the UK economy.

      In January 2009, RBS announced a loss of £28bn of which £20bn was due to the ABN AMRO acquisition.

    9. Mike d says:

      Dont worry Scotland, you’ll be getting a large share of the bill for these vouchers.

    10. Sorry fogot a bit,
      Rishi Sunak worked (2006/2009) for hedge fund `The Children’s Investment Fund Management` (TCI) which forced the sale of Dutch bank ABN AMRO to Royal Bank of Scotland which resulted in the near collapse of the UK economy.

      `Rijkman Groenink,(2007) chief executive of ABN Amro, faced a Dutch court on Saturday as “a lawyer for his own company” to claim that the biggest bank in the Netherlands had become a “toy for hedge funds”.

      His extraordinary outburst came as the bidding battle for ABN reached a climax two months after The Children’s Investment Fund, an activist hedge fund, began agitating for a break-up of the 183-year-old bank.`

      In January 2009, RBS announced a loss of £28bn of which £20bn was due to the ABN AMRO acquisition.

    11. galamcennalath says:

      Tories just don’t have a clue about the lives of normal people.

      No deal Brexit in January and there won’t be cake either!

    12. Sensibledave says:

      Robert Louise

      You wrote “Rishi Sunak, chancellor for the racist Tory party …”

      Hmmm, I think you may want to revisit that statement Robert.

    13. Capella says:

      @ Scot Finlayson – you been reading The Panama Papers? I assume Rishi’s wealth is in some Caribbean resort buried under a mountain of paperwork.

      Someone said recently, was it Boris Johnston? that our conomy was based on consumerism. I didn’t realise that he meant literally eating junk food.

    14. Oscar says:

      Capella

      With your continued support for Sturgeon, you will be complicit in the sexual assaults on any female attacked in “woman only” safe spaces.

      Be it on your own head.

      Let’s see how vocal you are about the Sturgeon leadership once innocent woman and girls start being abused in THEIR place of safety.

      And the come back from you about how popular Sturgeon’s approval ratings are,,,,in 1939/40 a certain Adolf Hitler’s approval ratings in Germany were through the roof.

      I wonder how that turned out???

    15. Capella says:

      Of course, you don’t have to be white to be racist. The British Empire used that fact to their advantage in India and Africa. Still does.

    16. Effijy says:

      Do you think the 3/4 million who will lose their jobs and
      Those given Zero hours contracts and the disabled trying to
      Pay England’s Bedroom Tax will be so grateful?

    17. winifred mccartney says:

      Brilliant cartoon.

      Even a presenter on Radio Scotland (I know) said was this not a ‘middle class’ thing.

      It certainly is – I don’t think many people worrying about paying the rent/mortgage will be eating out for a very long time.

      No doubt about it the tories have no clue about the majority of people and their real lives and they can’t even be bothered to find out. So long as they and their pals/donors are ok then everything is great.

    18. Sensibledave says:

      Capella 9:06 am

      You wrote “Of course, you don’t have to be white to be racist.”

      Ok, so you have jumped on the band wagon too.

      Calling people r***** is a pretty serious acusation and I note that it is a common trope here on Wings to play that card, and then for the gallery to cheer them on.

      Is there anything by way of specific evidence that you have about Mr Sunak – or is it just because he is English and Tory (just like 48% of the population in England)?

    19. dakk says:

      Excellent Chris.

      Very accurate.

      And a pleasant change from the usual SNP bad, UK gov a good ‘exception’being pumped out on this site now.

    20. The Isolator says:

      Not so Sensible Dave @ 9.18

      It’s just fuckin idiots we have a problem with.We’re ruled by them,it’s not difficult.

      Great toon as always Chris

    21. ahundredthidiot says:

      First week in February I bought hundreds of face-masks and a few respirators, just in case this pandemic was real.

      By the time the biggest stock market crash in human history happened mid March, I realised this was a delayed crash – probably from last October – getting data out under the COVID radar and amid an oil price war led by Saudi and Russia.

      By the end of March I knew the virus was very probably the Aussie flu we had been preparing for since last summer and after assessing the Data from Europe – concluded that while it was bad for the old and the sick, it was neither a calamity, nor a plague.

      People who pumped money into the stock market April/May/June will be the big winners – everyone else will need to lose a little/maybe a lot……..just like last time…………voucher anyone?

    22. Margaret Wilson says:

      Who will volunteer to man the barricades?

    23. Gary45% says:

      As usual Chris, Brilliant.
      Remember folks. “Never Trust A Tory”

    24. Papko says:

      @Robert Louis
      “. Mibbes we need to get the old (and some say, original) guillotine in the museum in chambers street back into working order.”

      I think Robespierre had the same idea back in 1789, and look what happened to him.

    25. Ottomanboi says:

      Culture wars alla turca.
      https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2020/07/10/the-stones-of-the-hagia-sophia-will-still-cry-out/
      When political leaders lose the plot and become dangerously unstable with notions of revising and rewriting history, nature, the world,
      https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-christians-a-welcome-scapegoat-in-turkey/a-53918937
      Ah, those ottoman golden days.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_Ottoman_Empire#/media/File:1895erzurum-victims.jpg
      A serving of Turkish un-delight.
      (Turkey, however, is a NATO partner so a wee slap on the wrist for Erdogan will suffice)

    26. ahundredthidiot says:

      Gary45

      My late Uncle was Tory – gid Rangers Man – He voted Yes in 2014.

      ‘Never trust an Extremist’ might be more appropriate.

      Don’t you have a Marxist/Anarchist protest to be attending?

    27. Republicofscotland says:

      Spot on Chris another cracker.

      Meanwhile the well kent faces of the SNP are sitting up and taking notice, afraid of us giving our list votes to another independence party.

      John Swinney’s in the National newspaper today saying don’t give your list vote to anyone but the SNP, Tommy Sheppard, comments on Alex Neil’s column from yesterday in which Neil said a independence referendum WILL be held a year after next years Scottish elections. Sheppard suggests that Neil meant nearer the end of the next five year term which would take us to 2026.

      Lets give the SNP our constituency votes next year, but not our list votes, we must get as many independence minded bums on seats at Holyrood as possible.

    28. Effijy says:

      100 Idiots-

      I think you are due an upgrade as your post like 1,000 idiots.

      I’m sure you knew I was going to post this and no doubt we won’t
      Here from you again as you will know the Lottery numbers for tonight
      and have the elusive formula for turning lead into gold.

    29. ahundredthidiot says:

      Effijy

      sorry – don’t play the lotto – gambling’s for poor people and mugs.

      maybe ask yourself why you’re so angry…….scammed recently?

    30. Cuilean says:

      Why is Barack Obama in drag?

    31. Tinto Chiel says:

      @ galamcennalath: “Tories just don’t have a clue about the lives of normal people.”

      Nor care. I remember the comment supposedly made by Nicholas Ridley (a viscount and deviser of the Poll Tax and the plan to defeat the miners) when asked about the suffering in mining households during the prolonged strike: “Can’t they just sell a painting or something?”

      And yet so many people in former mining areas in England (foodbanks and all) voted for these chancers in 2019…….

    32. Republicofscotland says:

      As Johnson points the finger at the EU with regards to the border that’s in the Irish sea, a border Johnson said would never materialise, lets not forget as well that Northern Ireland will remain in the EU’s single market whilst we won’t, even though a Panelbase poll has found that some 63% of Scots want to rejoin the EU.

      The survey found that 52% of voters in England still backed leaving the EU, its patently obvious that on the EU Scottish and English folk are moving in completely different directions.

    33. Capella says:

      Some good polling figures in The National today. 63% of Scots want to rejoin the EU – up 3%. High ratings for Nicola Sturgeon too. BREXIT and handling the Corona virus driving the figures.

      http://archive.fo/vAHxV

    34. mike cassidy says:

      For the ‘Virus, What Virus’ brigade.

      A report from one of those places where the virus was seen as a big conspiracy.

      Houston hospitals are increasingly turning away new patients as coronavirus overwhelms emergency rooms

      “It’s not unusual for a small number of patients to be held in ERs on busy days, especially during flu season, but three Houston ER physicians said they have never seen so many patients receiving prolonged care in emergency departments, or for such long periods of time”

      http://archive.is/7JCxK

      And remember to let these families know that their front-line loved ones died only of the flu.

      I’m sure it will be of great comfort.

      https://archive.vn/Nyck7

    35. @Capella,

      Sunak is the richest person in Parliament/Government he is also married to daughter of Indian billionaire N. R. Narayana Murthy who was one of original founders of Indian based IT call centres,

      Sunak also has ties to America through the Fulbright Program run by the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA) of the U.S. Department of State,

      he is the English version of Gordon Gekko, but never went to prison but became The Brutish Empire`s Chancellor of the Exchequer `Greed Is Very Good`.

      The Consevrative and Unionist Government is a nest of carpetbaggers,hedge fund gangsters,thugs,racketeers.

      The UK is not a Democracy but a Plutocracy where the rich in Government are using their power to serve their own purposes and thereby increasing poverty and nurturing class conflict, corrupting societies with greed and hedonism.

    36. Capella says:

      Mhairi Black takes time off dissing YES supporters to turn her fire on unionists in The National. Welcome change.

      http://archive.fo/ekqHd

    37. Oscar says:

      Capella

      With your continued support for Sturgeon, you will be complicit in the sexual assaults on any female attacked in “woman only” safe spaces.

      Be it on your own head.

      Let’s see how vocal you are about the Sturgeon leadership once innocent woman and girls start being abused in THEIR place of safety.

      And the come back from you about how popular Sturgeon’s approval ratings are,,,,in 1939/40 a certain Adolf Hitler’s approval ratings in Germany were through the roof.

      I wonder how that turned out?

    38. Capella says:

      @ Scot Finlayson – he can’t help it if he’s lucky!

      So is the Westminster government a criminal syndicate?

    39. Republicofscotland says:

      The Frank Spencer of the Tory party former minister Chris (failing) Grayling, has a good chance of becoming the the next chair of the Commons Intelligence Security Committee, after Johnson included his name on the the nominees list.

      The Norman Wisdom of English transport, is renowned for his cock-ups and failings, the most recent one issuing a contract to a ferry company that had no ferries.

      In hindsight, with Johnson’s government and its track record in mind, Grayling is the ideal candidate for the job.

    40. Dave Hansell says:

      “Rishi Sunak, chancellor for the racist Tory Government …”

      There! Fixed it for you ‘sensible’ Dave.

    41. Oscar says:

      You know the SNP have truly lost the plot when they are advising against voting for ANOTHER Pro Indy List Party.

      So by their thinking, they would rather have the List seats taken by Tories, Labour, LibDems and Greens.

      I give up.

      I don’t know when the SNP turned down the wrong road,,,but they are that far down it they are out of fuckin sight.

    42. Pete says:

      Mike Cassidy
      You are correct about the high number of positive cases in some states of the USA but please remember the death rates are about half of the UK/ Scotland.
      The US does more testing than any other country therefore, by definition, it must find more positive cases.
      Whilst some ER departments are busy, the strategy is to keep the economy going and life To be as normal as possible.
      The SG policy is to eradicate the virus but at the cost of millions of jobs, zero cancer care for those requiring it and, as is already happening, an increase in non- Covid deaths.
      In addition, poverty will bring huge problems of ill health and mental illness.
      Personally, I much prefer the US approach which is to take the punishment now but not to ruin the future life prospects of the current generation.

    43. dakk says:

      Pete 10.54

      That US approach you prefer doesn’t seem to have done much good for their economy Pete

      NEW: Around 1.3 million people filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week, the 14th straight week of declines.

      More than 48 million people have now filed for unemployment benefits for the first time in the past 15 weeks.

      https://t.co/4CFHLxQB8J

    44. Muscleguy says:

      @Oscar
      You are so right. Add in not wanting folk to understand our voting system. Think about that the next time they trumpet education. They are not in favour of basic Civics. It’s been left to the ISP to try and educate people.

      If we are ever allowed to canvas for the party I expect most of my time will be spent explaining the voting system before we can even get onto wasting your vote on the List by voting SNP and wouldn’t it be good to have fewer unionists in the parliament?

    45. Sensibledave says:

      Dave hansell

      … you lot do make me laugh sometimes. You keyboard warriors sit there in your echoo chamber shouting and sneering and getting cheered on for doing so.

      As you may have gathered from some of my previous interventions, I often respond when the loonies (that dont have any arguments) shout “r*****” or “Fas****” at anyone, or any party, that represents a different point of view. The very personification of the characteristics of the “woke” that are criticised here.

      I know that Wings is often a “fact free” zone so lets just have a look at some.

      In the UK Government there are 26 members, of which 3 members would be described as “non-white”. If you include the other 4 people that attend Cabinet meetings then that rises to 4 including the Attourney General. So that’s just over 1 in 8 or 1 in 7.5, depending upon how you want to look at it.

      The SNP Governmment has ONE out of 28.

      In Scotland’s capital city, the “non-white” population is around 8%. In Glasgow, around 12%.

      In England’s capital, London’s non-white population is 55%. In our second city, Birmingham, it is 37%.

      Looking elsewhere to see how we are getting on, then typically around half of England’s Football team, Rugby team, Netball team is “non-white”.

      I will leave you to have a look at the Scottish counterparts.

      EU citizens living in the UK is far higher in England than in Scotland.

      So whilst we are not perfect, I can’t think of a country on the planet that is more diverse, more integrated and get along so well – than England.

      Can you?

      I give you this information not as any criticism of Scotland, but as a “reference” for my country that you seek to portray in a manner that is simply untrue.

      But hey, why bother with the truth when you’ve got grievance and culture wars to fight eh?

    46. @Capella,

      `So is the Westminster government a criminal syndicate?`

      if you look at the history of the Brutish Empire the Westminster Government are the biggest crime syndicate ever,

      from piracy,drug dealing,extortion,theft,murder,ethnic cleansing,money laundering,arms distribution to known criminals, you name the crime and the UK Government have got a department specialising in it.

    47. Capella says:

      One last from The National – it’s from 24th June and by Kevin McKenna. He looks at the different quality of leadership between Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnston in his witty way (and I know some on here will be delighted):

      http://archive.fo/pYknf

    48. schrodingers cat says:

      @muscleguy

      snp officials cant back tactical voting. they would fall foul of the electoral commision

      all party officials from all parties back eg, tory 1 & 2, slab 1/2 etc. (look at the pelters dugdale got for not doing this?)

      this doesnt stop people on social media and in the msm, from promoting tactical voting and if the unionist voters can understand this and vote tactically, why cant we?
      (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11516292/How-the-tactical-voting-tables-stand.xxx)

      if you want to see what the snp leaders actually think, look and see what the high profile snp folk who are retired (or nearing retirement in the case of Kenny Macaskill) or no longer in positions of power.

      lets see what tasmina and alex say

      its politics 101

    49. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      Contemporary British constitutional practice is pretty exclusionary and racist in nature, Toryboy. Have you not found a respect for constitutional jurisprudence yet, or does your ignorance and cultural prejudice lead you to imagine your position is morally justifiable, and not simply racist in nature?

      Implicit Bias, Epistemic Injustice, and the Epistemology of Ignorance
      https://philosophy.uoregon.edu/files/2014/05/Skorburg_PhilMatters_2015-2dc4ks5.pdf

    50. Capella says:

      Of course, you don’t have to be black to be the target of racism either. Just ask the Irish.

    51. Sensibledave says:

      CBB

      … hit me with some facts rather than the turgid opinions of someone I don’t know or care about.

      Come on CBB, name a country that is more diverse, inclusive, integrated and getting along so well as England. (Note: it certainly isn’t Scotland).

    52. schrodingers cat says:

      @sensible

      ah, care to answer my question

      when the snp turn the next holyrood election into a defacto independence plebiscite and win over 50%+ of the vote

      Will this result supersede the 2014 result?

    53. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      England has just turned its’ back on the world’s largest trading block, because English Torydum hates foreigners and immigration, you tit.

    54. @contemptibledave,

      Was it not your own Conservative and Unionist politician,Enoch Powel, that said,

      `“We must be mad, literally mad, as a nation to be permitting the annual inflow of some 50,000 dependents, who are for the most part the material of the future growth of the immigrant-descended population. It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.”

    55. Breeks says:

      Capella says:
      11 July, 2020 at 11:30 am

      ….He looks at the different quality of leadership between Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnston in his witty way (and I know some on here will be delighted):

      Meh… If the measure of good leadership is popularity, then we’re sorted. Otherwise, not so much.

    56. Gary45% says:

      Another day, usual Yoons, spouting usual pish.
      Sad news on Jackie Charlton.
      It gives BBC Shortbread another excuse to mention 1966, no wait they don’t need an excuse.
      The ball never crossed the line.

    57. mike cassidy says:

      zero cancer care for those requiring it

      I know this is bullshit

      Because a family member has been through the whole diagnosis/operation/chemtherapy spectrum of care during the lockdown

    58. Capella says:

      Perhaps we can all unite against a gigantic criminal enterprise, aided and abetted by fraudulent financiers, PR and media companies, installed via rigged elections engineered by corrupt digital manipulators AKA Westminster?

    59. Doug says:

      English/British nationalism continues in its xenophobic direction towards further extremism. Sad for England but good for the independence movement in Scotland. Scotland and England continue to drift apart politically. There is no going back.

      The so-called united kingdom is sick; time to put it out of its pathetic misery.

    60. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – I think you’ll find he’s referring more to managing a crisis to reduce mortality rates and eliminate the threat. See Boris Johnston comparing himself to Winston Churchill and FD Roosevelt.

      There’s also a good letter pointing out the word war going on in Westminster where the Scottish Government is referred to as an administration, its leader a manger and Scotland a region (of Greater England) with no border.

    61. Gary45% says:

      Mike Cassidy@12.09
      Likewise, personally know 3 different families, 1 in England, 2 in Scotland all having cancer treatment during the lockdown.

    62. Confused says:

      I see scrappy doo is on duty this afternoon … but he makes, inadvertently, a good point

      – arguments against independence, can come from anywhere; a relatively new one is

      ENGLAND is, by now, a MULTICULTURAL and diverse, vibrantistic wonderland of modernity, a pride march in every mosque, every bishop a tranny

      SCOTLAND is, however, “achingly WHITE” and hence, we are all fascist, racist pigs for wanting to leave this new jerusalem of brotherly love.

      – its a pincer attack, this bollocks typically coming from the Guardian and the english “left”; of course the rightwing, the mail and telegraph will keep up with the –

      “you are too poor, you will never support yourself without the firm but fair, wise pimp hand of the anglo”

      do not fall for it.

      It also seques nicely with the BLM astroturf street theatre and the self flagellation about

      SCOTS DUN SLAVERY SO DONT DESERVE INDEPENDENCE

      (get your credit cards out)

      – and lets rename George Sq to BADRADEEN PLAZA

      killed by a racist white cop.

      ALL HE WANTED WAS TO -TOPUP- HIS MOBILE PHONE

    63. bipod says:

      Why is it that people here like to pretend thta NHS care for things other than covid has not been either massively reduced or outright canceled?

      https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18411689.coronavirus-scotland-sturgeon-pressure-elective-cancer-care-covid-icu-admissions-fall-new-low/

      All elective surgeries were cancelled, and surgical interventions for cancer (which accounts for a third of all cancer treatments) was postponed. The dithering nicola fan club on this site would like us all to believe that this didn’t happen or hasn’t made any difference or led to worse outcomes. Anyone who has ever been in a hospital recently will see that it is still unusually quiet.

    64. Effijy says:

      Stupid Dave 11.52

      Would you like to start with Germany where they absorbed the entire Russian satellite
      Nation of East Germany and just a few years later took in over 1 Million refugees from
      Countries Westminster had helped to bomb out of their native homes.
      That’s Germany the strongest economy in Europe where they actually have very capable
      Caring leaders who look after everyone, not just the rich.

      A Nation without Oil Reserves a nation with federal states who have more powers than Scotland
      A nation where their police force is not endemically racist.

      You can have Australia, Sweden and Fiji too if you want a better spread across the plant.

      You desperately need a name change before the trades description act locks you up!

    65. dakk says:

      Gary45% and mike cassidy

      Regular cancer treatments have been ongoing throughout Covid.

      Clinical trials were interrupted I believe.

    66. Gary45% says:

      Capella@12.22
      It would be great if we could, but to try and get the gullible to look at reality, I don’t think i’ll see it in my lifetime.
      The corporate’s already getting the punters blaming each other.
      (Look there’s an even bigger squirrel)
      The way WM has handled this crisis, every single part of the UK should be protesting outside WM and No 10,11. and demanding a new government,(yes it can be done), too many have needlessly died and many more have still to get caught up in Johnson and Co’s Covid-19 failings.
      If there was a time for a revolution against the government/corporations its now, sad to say it wont happen.
      No doubt I’ll be accused of being a “commie” or whatever, personally I am just looking out for humanity.

    67. jfngw says:

      @sensibledave

      Try harder with your research, the UK is nowhere near the top of any ethnic diversity table. A quick search and the highest I could find was 49th, the lowest 109th, depending on what you measure.

      As usual just made up nonsense. Here’s a hint, just having a lot of non-white people doesn’t make you diverse. As long as they integrate by adopting our customs and speak English is not diversity. It’s the same as the difference between a coloniser and settlers.

    68. mike cassidy says:

      Bipod

      Thanks for that.

      I’ll let the family member know

      The lumps

      The GP referral to the hospital

      The diagnosis

      The surgery

      The chemotherapy

      was all just a nightmare.

      I’m sure they will be mightily relieved

    69. Capella says:

      @ Gary45% – still, we can post links to information such as the documentary “The Spider’s Web” which spells out the reality.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8

      Re access to medical care – we too have had same day diagnosis (via mobile phone) with prescription ready at the pharmacy for shingles – not me I got the jab (sorry anti-vaxxers). So I think people will find their lived reality is at odds with the dismal narrative told by unionists. As ever.

    70. Effijy says:

      Got it Pete,

      You like Trump’s plan where 10’s if millions lose their jobs
      But the stock market is kept happy.

      Given time, Trump’s Covid policies can kill 10’s of Millions
      So their jobs will be up for grabs and it all evens out with a
      Very happy and content stock market.

      I’m sure the USA dead will be more than pleased to die before their time
      If the Dow can hold steady.

      You would do the same thing for Boris wouldn’t you Pete.

      Keep yourself well ahead of me in that Queue!

    71. Dave Hansell says:

      ‘sensible’ Dave

      That’s certainly an interesting mindset which reads the word ‘Government’ and defines it as “Country” (which I never mentioned in any way, shape, or form) for the clear purpose of creating the usual straw man argument.

      But let’s consider the relevant figure you provide for the number of ethnic minority representation in the Cabinet of the UK Government – which is where I corrected what you found inaccurate.

      7.5% eh.

      Well, the available statistics: http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/ethnicity-and-religion/

      “According to the Office for National Statistics, there were approximately 64.6 million people living in the UK in mid-2014. Of these, 56.2 million (87.2 per cent) were White British.”

      Which means the percentage of ethnic minority representation amongst the total UK population is (using basic arithmetic) 12.8%. (100-87.2)

      Which means the ethnic minority population of the UK is under represented in the Cabinet by just over 41% (7.5 divided by 12.8 multiplied by 100 is just under 58.6%. 100-58.6 = 41.4%).

      In the Tory Party as a whole 21 of its 365 MP’s in the Commons are from ethnic minority backgrounds. That’s (in basic arithmetic terms) 5.75% of Tory MP’s.

      Again, under representing the 12.8% of the UK ethnic minority population by just over 55% (5.75 divided by 12.8 multiplied by 100 is 44.9%. 100-44.9=55.1).

      The Loyal Opposition has 40 of its 202 MP’s who are from the ethnic minority population. Again (in basic arithmatic) that’s 19.8% of its MP’s.

      That is a 54.6% over representation of the ethnic minority population. (19.8 divided by 12.8 multiplied by 100 is 154.6%. 154.6-100 =54.6)

      A. You’re welcome.
      B. What was your point?

    72. robbo says:

      REASONS TO NOT WEAR A FACE MASK

      https://twitter.com/brittlestar/status/1281662116244660225

      Thing is Trump will be wearing the wrong one today in a hospital in Florida, which is soaring with 10,000+ cases a day.

      https://en.dopl3r.com/memes/dank/the-perfect-way-to-handle-donald-trump-like-hannibal-lecter/3283

    73. bipod says:

      Covid will kill 10s of millions in america? Get a grip.

      We are still waiting for the 85000 that were supposed to die in sweden because of no lockdown.

    74. bipod says:

      I’m glad your family member got prompt treatment but that doesn’t mean that there hasn’t been massived delays, postponements and cancellations due to turning the NHS into the national covid service.

      https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/29/extra-18000-cancer-patients-in-england-could-die-in-next-year-study

      There is no point in pretending that didn’t happen.

    75. dakk says:

      Effijy said

      ‘But the stockmarket is kept happy’

      Same in UK.

      A big slice of the staggering £750 billion QE the B of E has issued during Covid will be propping up share prices.

      https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/quantitative-easing

    76. Capella says:

      Trump says he won’t wear a mask because he will look like the Lone Ranger. He thinks you punch two holes in it and wear it over your eyes.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdgkdLSwh88

    77. Ottomanboi says:

      The disease symptoms of Covid-19 do NOT kill. Morbidity and possible mortality are due to autoimmune issues, poor state of personal health, unhealthy lifestyle or environmental problems arising from pollution all of which occur in so called developed states.
      The SARS CoV-2 virus is not plague. Masks, unless of the sophisticated clinical variety, do not work against a nano-scaled organism of the type and for people with impaired breathing conditions are not recommended.
      Sturgeon and Johnson are here today gone tomorrow politicians, the mess they make lives on long after them in dole queues, food poverty, inflation and public scepticism of authority and media.
      Let them bask in their popularity, for the moment.

    78. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      11 July, 2020 at 1:29 pm

      It will if they don’t get grip.Simple, let it rip through hoping for herd,which is nonsense will kill millions AND will destroy the economy that you idolise as they’ll not be enough fit people to work.

      What price for liberty and the stock market eh!

    79. robbo says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      11 July, 2020 at 1:35 pm

      Another eegit

    80. bipod says:

      Of course robbo fanatically supports the wearing of useless face masks.

      An interesting study that was conducted a few years ago on the value of wearing face masks to stop airborne viruses https://web.archive.org/web/20200509053953/https:/www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/, it was recently removed because its view was too inconvenient for the lockdown mafia.

    81. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      11 July, 2020 at 1:55 pm

      You need to go away and have rethink and understand what the word mitigation means.

      A seat belt might not stop you getting killed but it does stop you in 99% of the time from you flying your nebin through the windscreen,thus preventing you from becoming very dead or very ugly disfigured if you survive.

      A virus doesn’t give a toss whether you wear a mask but ,you get my drift.

    82. Effijy says:

      Bipod- is that the name for Two Feet in mouth disease?

      Life is precious.

      The stock market and hedge funds and corrupt institutions like Westminster
      Never come before the health and welfare of anyone.
      Full stop.

    83. dakk says:

      Bipod 1. 55

      That paper specifically relates to defence of dental personnel from airborne pathogens.

      Wearing face coverings also helps stop people spraying their droplets when they cough, sneeze, or accidentally spit whilst speaking.

    84. Oscar says:

      Watch out Robbos about.

      The site Polis is back on duty.

      WHAT AN UTTER FUCKIN WANKER YOU ARE!!!

    85. Gary45% says:

      Trump “it will be down to 2 cases then it will disappear in the hot weather”
      Hows that going?
      Had a wee thought last night. (So up to yesterdays current totals)
      USA 136,000 Covid-19 deaths approx.
      UK 44,650 Covid-19 deaths approx.
      A coffin is approx 24″ high = 2 feet.
      Pile the USA coffins on top of each other =272,000 feet and counting.
      Do the same for the UK = 89,300 feet and counting.
      Mt Everest = 29,029 feet.
      Mariana Trench = 36,201 feet.

      Not to worry, Covid-19 is “not that serious”????

      Trump and Johnson the Chaos Twins.
      Their day of reckoning will come.

    86. Oscar says:

      Capella,

      With your continued support for Sturgeon, you will be complicit in the sexual assaults on any female attacked in “woman only” safe spaces.

      Be it on your own head.

      Let’s see how vocal you are about the Sturgeon leadership once innocent woman and girls start being abused in THEIR place of safety.

      And the come back from you about how popular Sturgeon’s approval ratings are,,,,in 1939/40 a certain Adolf Hitler’s approval ratings in Germany were through the roof.

      I wonder how that turned out??

    87. K1 says:

      We’ll soon find out whether the wearing of masks/face coverings will make a difference to rate of spread. Watching what is happening in the US is an ongoing real time experiment.

      Ventilation is key, indoors is especially where the virus can hang about and higher infection spread is likely.

      We know the types of masks we are donning don’t prevent us from getting the virus, that’s not the point, the point is to reduce the rate of spread as much as possible, that is why mandatory for inside shops and enclosed environments like buses and cars is important, that combined with ventilation that dilutes any virus load means wearing a mask becomes a secondary block in those enclosed situations,

      Those attempting to politicise this are either wilfully or ignorantly missing the point. It’s a novel virus, a dentist earring a mask as that paper cites has no more or less chance of catching viruses and infections in general and apparently good antibody load against most pathogens, but that same dentist in this current pandemic doesn’t have COVID antibodies, so what will that dentist choose?

      To adhere to papers saying you don’t really need to wear a mask because it won’t protect you or will they correctly reason that some form of protection is better than none?

      And as evidence increasingly shows that COVID is transmitted by asymptomatic carriers, is that dentist not wearing a mask because of a paper saying it’s not protective, prepared if they are asymptomatic carriers to work on a patient without wearing a mask, thereby likely infecting that patient?

      You see you can argue all you like intellectually about these theoretical points, but it does beg a question, why so keen to discourage others to help each other not spread the novel virus in the first place?

      Wear a mask/face coverings folks, we are all at the mercy of this, we all have loved ones who aren’t immunologically as strong as we may be. Why take the risk of infecting them?

    88. K1 says:

      Aw Capella your star is rising, you’re now responsible for up and coming third world war!

      Let us know when you’re invading Hawick.

    89. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dave’s an English Toryboy, and that’s all you need to know in order to dismiss his judgement as being piss-poor.

      The Epistemic Dimensions of Ignorance
      Reviewed by Katja Maria Vogt, Columbia University

      https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/the-epistemic-dimensions-of-ignorance/

    90. Republicofscotland says:

      Although Sturgeon blew it in the beginning over her handling of Covid-19 by following Westminster lead, she’s since recovered her position well, and her handling of the virus is now way better than Johnsons.

      The New York Times has noticed this as well.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/world/europe/coroanvirus-scotland-england.html

    91. Julia Gibb says:

      @Oscar

      A box of rocks could outsmart you.

    92. The opinion by many historians is that the Scots influence during the Brutish Empire helped to mitigate a lot of the brutal excesses of the English colonialists,

      even though the Brutish Empire is listed as the most evil empire in history it could have been a lot worse.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IGHByjToO4&t=

    93. susan says:

      I’m not particularly interested in how “diverse” Scotland is, as if “diversity” indicated something good. Scotland is as Scotland is. I don’t feel the need for “diversity” to be some woke-plus positive.

    94. cirsium says:

      @Scott Finlayson, 11.22

      Talking about the “Glorious Empire”, I came across this interesting post

      https://www.globalresearch.ca/colonial-drug-trafficking-and-the-british-empire/5716926

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m not trying to be unkind to dave, but he simply isn’t an honest player, and tends to be stubbornly obtuse in his denial of reality. England’s decision to leave the EU was conditioned through economic decline and austerity, but was essentially driven by xenophobia and racism. This was larlgly generated and mobilised by right-wing populist narratives disseminated by the corporate media. And dave thinks that’s natural and democratic, apparently. Or he’s simply wants to deny Scotland the benefit of democracy.

      How is hermeneutical injustice related to ‘white ignorance’? Reply to José Medina’s “Hermeneutical Injustice and Polyphonic Contextualism: Social Silences and Shared Hermeneutical Responsibilities”
      https://social-epistemology.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/fricker_reply_medina.pdf

    96. cirsium says:

      @K1, .2.26
      we are all at the mercy of this, we all have loved ones who aren’t immunologically as strong as we may be. Why take the risk of infecting them?

      Yes, why take the risk? Is it not time the Scottish Government started using the Raoult treatment protocol? https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/06/306587/moroccan-scientist-moroccos-chloroquine-success-reveals-european-failures/

    97. Capella says:

      @ K1 – yes I’m so flattered. My plans for world domination are going well. But don’t tell anybody. I was nearly found out, but by keeping a low profile I think I’ve got away with it.
      Mums the word. 😉

    98. JMD says:

      Susan 3.22

      Excellent comment.

    99. Capella says:

      A lot of England’s “diversity” springs from imported labour from Africa and the Caribbean. No natural born English person would drive a bus or clean hospital floors in the 50s and 60s. Just ask the Windrush generation.

    100. Sensibledave says:

      Cbb11.56

      “Turned it’s back on the worlds biggest trading block”

      No CBB … simply looking to renegotiate terms. … and I am saying that we will. Are you prepared to put your credibility on the line by stating that we won’t?

      BTW … I am still waiting for you to tell me about a more diverse, integrated country, that is getting along well, than England. (Remember, it’s not Scotland, where even it’s white community manage to differentiate on sectarian lines).

      And btw again … I won’t read any link you post, if you can come up with a country that you feel is the model we should aspire to, then let me know.

      … but you won’t, because you can’t. Because you are just full of s**t!

    101. Sensibledave says:

      Capella

      … you seem to be back tracking sunshine.

      Compared to Scotland, England is a rainbow nation and we are doing ok thank you very much. So you and your ill informed, snide, mates need to look closer to home and explain to me why your government, your sports teams, etc, displays under representation of “non whites” whilst England, and Westminster typically demonstrates over representation If anything?

      Once again, i didn’t start this … I’m just holding up a mirror so that you can take a look at yourself.

    102. Gullane No 4 says:

      Re 1966 comment on Jack Charlton.
      I lived in the south of England for 30 years and it was seldom mentioned. When it was it was usually a natural connection to a member of the winning team.
      Just like saying something about Billy McNeil without mentioning 1967 and the Lisbon Lions.
      Some folk never stop going on about that :-} do they.

    103. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      Do you have a scrip or do you actually believe your own pish? Every electoral ward in Scotland voted to reject English Torydum’s ingrained cultural bigotry and racism. Scottish nationalism is supportive of multi-cultural tolerance. Contemporary English/British national most certainly is not (see Brexit).

      Britain is not one nation.

      Full text.

      Applied Linguistics, amz033, 15 June 2019
      Confronting Epistemological Racism, Decolonizing Scholarly Knowledge: Race and Gender in Applied Linguistics

      Abstract
      Recent scholarship in sociolinguistics and language education has examined how race and language intersect each other and how racism influences linguistic and educational practices. While racism is often conceptualized in terms of individual and institutional injustices, a critical examination of another form of racism – epistemological racism – problematizes how racial inequalities influence our knowledge production and consumption in academe.

      Highlighting the importance of the intersectional nature of identity categories, this conceptual article aims to draw scholars’ attention on how epistemological racism marginalizes and erases the knowledge produced by scholars in the Global South, women scholars of color, and other minoritized groups.

      In today’s neoliberal culture of competition, scholars of color are compelled to become complicit with white Euro-American hegemonic knowledge, further perpetuating the hegemony of white knowledge while marginalizing women scholars of color.

      Valorizing non-European knowledge and collectivity as an alternative framework also risks essentialism and male hegemony. Conversely, the ethics promoted by black feminism emphasizes a personal ethical commitment to antiracism. Epistemological antiracism invites scholars to validate alternative theories, rethink our citation practices, and develop critical reflexivity and accountability.

      https://academic.oup.com/applij/article/doi/10.1093/applin/amz033/5519375

    104. Republicofscotland says:

      There’s far too much petty squabbling, and playing the man/woman, and not the ball, going on in here.

      Only the unionist trolls benefit from this, don’t rise to the bait, stick to putting your points on the thread across, and only answer civil, not derisory comments aimed at you.

      Maybe then more lurkers and ex-commentors will come back or join in.

      Have nice day all, except the unionist trolls that is, you know who you are.

    105. Capella says:

      NO IRISH – NO COLOURDS – NO DOGS

      In America, blacks are 4 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites. In Britain, they are 7 times more likely. Black unemployment in America is around 6%. In Britain, it is around 8%. The good news is that in both countries, the expulsion rate at schools is the same: black pupils are 3 times more likely to be expelled in Britain and America, so that’s…good?

      https://theblackunicorn.blog/2018/08/28/racism-is-bad-in-america-its-worse-in-england/

      How’s Meghan Markle getting on these days?

    106. Sensibledave says:

      susan says: 3:22 pm

      “I”m not particularly interested in how “diverse” Scotland is, as if …”

      Indeed. It shouldn’t be an issue Susan, but there is a clique of numpties here that spend so much time talking to each other .. they actually haven’t got a clue what is really happening elsewhere.

    107. Sensibledave says:

      Capella

      … still you seek to digress.

      Tell me which country England should aspire to be like in terms of its diversity, integration, religious freedom, etc … again … it certainly isn’t Scotland thanks.

    108. CameronB Brodie says:

      I probably should learn how to give it tight to dave, without rubbing folk up the wrong way. It’s just not good social practice though, to allow ignorant prejudice to go unchallenged. And he’s just begging for an ethical re-edumication. 🙂

      Epistemic Injustice: Power and the Ethics of Knowing
      Reviewed by Lorraine Code, York University

      https://ndpr.nd.edu/news/epistemic-injustice-power-and-the-ethics-of-knowing/

    109. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 4.21

      “ Britain is not one nation.”

      Indeed, England has a very diverse and integrated population where, for instance, 55% of its capital’s population identify as “non white” and we all get along very well (apart from the nutters at the extremes). Whereas Scotland, has relatively little immigration, diversity and integration and fails to appoint a government that mirrors its population in terms of race, and, for instance, whose sports teams are almost exclusively white it would appear.

      … I’m still waiting for a list of countries CBB?!?!

      You’ve got nothing … other than irrelevant links have you.

    110. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sensibledave
      I’m not interested in responding to your questioning, as you’ve still not told us whether you support the principle of universal human rights. Or shown us how. You acknowledge Britain is not one nation, so why the ambivalence towards the unconstitutional nature of Brexit. Scotland voted to remain but England has decided we must leave. That smells like colonial fascism to me, so do you support the rule-of-law or contemporary British constitutional practice?

    111. Sensibledave says:

      CBB 4.50

      … or to paraphrase “you want to make completely unfounded, baseless allegations about the citizens of another country without being challenged on those allegations … and you can’t think of another country (and we have agreed it isn’t Scotland) that England should aspire to be like in terms of diversity, integration and religious freedom“

      You have proved to me and everyone else you are a pompous, pseudo intellectual, that is full of hot air, access to links … but nothing else of any value.

    112. CameronB Brodie says:

      That would appear to have upset dave. 🙂

      Combatting Epistemological Racism: Critical Race Participatory Action Research Toward the Promotion of Faculty Critical Race Conscience and Transformative Pedagogy
      https://d-scholarship.pitt.edu/38721/1/0415_Lachaud%20Dissertation_FINAL_AS.pdf

    113. callmedave says:

      Saturday corona figures.

      NOTE: N. Ireland no longer report over the weekend but I have included their numbers.

      Scotland……today………00……Total……2490…BBC
      Wales………today………01……Total……1541…BBC
      N. Ireland………………00……Total…….554
      England…….today……..*38……Total….*29051..*SUN
      =======================================================
      UK…………today……..^39……Total….^44689..^MAIL+SUN

      Nothing yet from the BBC.

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      Look dave, you are so up-yourself you simply don’t appreciate how out-classed you are. So stop embarrassing yourself and jog on lad. 😉

      Epistemic Injustice at the Conceptual Level:
      Are We Entitled to Our Own Concepts?

      http://ojs.utlib.ee/index.php/spe/article/download/16288/11243/

    115. Sensibledave says:

      CBB

      … for once you are correct CBB. I can’t stand r*****s like you.

      I can’t abide people who make serious allegations and then run away like a school child when challenged.

      And I certainly won’t take instruction on diversity, inclusion, integration and religious freedom, for my country … from the likes of you and based upon Scotland’s “achievements” in this area.

      … still waiting CBB for you to give me the list of countries that England should aspire to be like.

      Maybe you could send me some “killer” link that some prat has written that justifies the under representation of non whites in the Scottish Government and why that is better than Westminster’s over representation for the non white community.

      I didn’t start this CBB.

    116. schrodingers cat says:

      @sensible

      you still didnt answer my question 🙁

    117. Sensibledave says:

      Sc

      … a valiant attempt to bail out the r*****s like CBB … but I’m not biting. This is too important.

      Maybe you can tell me why there are so few non whites in the Scottish SNP government? Or maybe why Scottish National sports teams are almost entirely white?

      Or maybe you can name a country that England should aspire to be like in terms of diversity, integration, religious freedom (and remember, it’s not Scotland is it).

      Or maybe you will just keep trying to change the subject too?

    118. Beaker says:

      @K1 says:
      11 July, 2020 at 2:51 pm
      “Aw Capella your star is rising, you’re now responsible for up and coming third world war!
      Let us know when you’re invading Hawick.”

      Can we start with Rutherglen? A big bomb or meteor strike would count as gentrification…

    119. CameronB Brodie says:

      That’s top class misrepresentation there, trying to paint my argument against Scotland’s epistemic subjugation by English Torydum, as racist.

      The Epistemology of Resistance: Gender and Racial Oppression, Epistemic Injustice, and Resistant Imaginations
      https://www.questia.com/library/120076917/the-epistemology-of-resistance-gender-and-racial

    120. schrodingers cat says:

      @sensible

      me? bail out cbb?

      you jest right?

      btw, you still havent answered my question?

    121. CameronB Brodie says:

      Nor mine. 🙂

    122. K1 says:

      Genuine laugh out loud Beaker 🙂

    123. CameronB Brodie says:

      I wouldn’t be so insulting to dave if I didn’t know a bit about cognitive biology, and cognitive neuropsychology and stuff.

      Full text

      Basic Income Studies | Volume 11: Issue 1
      Basic Income and the Ideal of Epistemic Equality

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02691728.2015.1031852?scroll=top&needAccess=true

    124. Sensibledave says:

      CBB

      … I’ll take that as huge win and bid you a good night. Maybe you could spend some more time making serious and insulting allegations .. that you can’t back up and up looking like a complete t**t again. I will look forward to it. I know you won’t let me down.

    125. Gary45% says:

      Gullane No 4@4.17
      “seldom mentioned”
      Aye the media do all the talking regarding 1966, saving the locals from mentioning the event.
      Yes there are some who still talk about 1967, how many times is that event spoken about on UK TV when the champions league is on?
      In the eyes of the English controlled media, Celtic and the rest of Scotland are wee northern colony teams.
      Pickles the dug who found the only World Cup stolen in a host nation? “must be proud of that wee chestnut”.has more standing than Celtic, Rangers or Aberdeen’s European achievements in Bwitish Football History.
      May sound like the proverbial chip on the shoulder, I probably have, but hey 58 years of media bias does that.
      No contest.

    126. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dave’s simply on another planet to me. His ignorance and predujice don’t only reveal an unseemly cultural chauvinism, they are dangerous. Right-wing populism supports inequality and authoritarian racism, and patriarchy hurts the poor and destroys the planet.

      A Relationship Focused Approach to Epistemic Injustice in Global Development Theory and Practice
      https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/884f/b913929b3c24b14f184e4b36a244578a5308.pdf

    127. Sandy says:

      Oscar.

      To use an often used Scottish phrase, “Shut the F… up”.
      Nobody seems interested in your views.

      Now await for the insulting reply.

    128. Sandy says:

      Dopey tory dave, along with Oscar, that goes for you, too.

    129. Ottomanboi says:

      Independence please…political, societal and intellectual.
      I look forward to that frabjous day, calloo callay.
      Vive l’Ëcosse, vive l’Écosse libre! to paraphrase Charles de Gaulle in Québec.
      What have we got to lose….our chains!
      Wots the prob?

    130. CameronB Brodie says:

      Btw, I was ignorant until I became informed, with the guidance of a reliable source. 😉

      Multicultural Literacy, Epistemic Injustice, and White Ignorance
      https://ojs.lib.uwo.ca/index.php/fpq/article/download/7289/6657/

    131. Joe says:

      I see diversity is an issue in these comments?

      The multicultural thing is like everything else Orwellian that comes from the liberal (again, they are not liberal but have misleading name) camp.

      True multiculturalism is where Italy is Italian, France is French and Egypt is Egyptian. That is how true differences can be respected. Each people governing themselves as they see fit with direct access to their ruling groups who happen to sit within their own nations. Not wondering what some internationalists following ‘international best practice’ might think.

      The current ‘liberal’ version of multiculturalism functions practically as a bland mixing and undermining of peoples who get to share the same choices in Starbucks, the same shite to watch on Netflix, the same global corporate products everywhere and with peoples inherent identities and cultures and national boundaries (all obstacles to global capitalism) crushed down into bland, base, tax cattle consumerism.

      At worst ‘diversity’ serves as a tool of elite groups who have massive media influence to cause any kind of social disturbances they want through focusing on and amplifying real or manufactured historic tensions which can serve any number of political agendas as they see fit. A clear eye on BLM is a perfect example.

      The true civic nationalist is deluded. There is no such thing. Because once heritage, culture and ethnicity is stripped out you could just as well go to any other country that governs itself the way they think is best.

      Still not convinced?

      What about the rumor, which I don’t think will happen, of the British government bringing over a few million people from Hong Kong? I am not against this. However a properly sly British government would seek to put as many in Scotland as possible. This would silence the Scottish pleas for more immigration while ensconcing a large portion of future ‘no’ supporters who will be grateful to the UK for life within Scotland. You wouldn’t want to be racist and refuse though, right?

      Still a civic nationalist?

      Through civic nationalism powerful international organisations get to manipulate your countries future through demographic shifts which they control. People who speak out can easily be branded as racist and silenced. All while the only true home you ever will have is slowly pulled out from under your feet.

      Westerners are the only people on earth expected to give way to people of different cultures and religions at the expense of their own.

      To put it rather rudely in the racist form: everybody on earth is allowed to want to live in a majority white country. Except whites.

    132. CameronB Brodie says:

      “To put it rather rudely in the racist form: everybody on earth is allowed to want to live in a majority white country. Except whites.”

      That’s Joe’s opinion, and I’m glad he finally got it off his chest. Open expression of white victimisation, in 21st century Scotland. Well I never. Well actually…

      On knowledge and racism: How do we know what we know?
      https://nccdh.ca/index.php?/blog/entry/on-knowledge-and-racism-how-do-we-know-what-we-know

    133. Confused says:

      sensible has done the lot of you –
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35rVw1zskA

      hey joe, where you goin with that keyboard in your hand
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe82eYRjiBU

    134. Ottomanboi says:

      I’m from a cosmopolitan background, how would I fit into a narrow nationalist or racialist definition of Scotland?
      The region my family came from discarded cosmopolitanism and took several cultural steps backwards as a consequence. I do hope Scotland does not make such an error.

    135. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry for being a space-hog, but this is important stuff.

      Full text.

      Continental Philosophy Review volume 45, pages 23–39 (2012)
      Racism: On the phenomenology of embodied desocialization

      Abstract
      This paper addresses racism from a phenomenological viewpoint. Its main task is, ultimately, to show that racism as a process of “negative socialization” does not amount to a contingent deficiency that simply disappears under the conditions of a fully integrated society.

      In other words, I suspect that racism does not only indicate a lack of integration, solidarity, responsibility, recognition, etc.; rather, that it is, in its extraordinary negativity, a socially constitutive phenomenon per se. After suggesting phenomenology’s potential to tackle the question of racism, I will focus on the experiential oppressiveness of racism, i.e., the ways in which it affects its victims’ lived experiences, in transforming their habitual ways of life and, finally, their subjectivities.

      My major thesis is that racism works via both inter-kinaesthetically as well as symbolically inflicted distortions of the victim’s body schema. As such a process of “negative socialization,” racism, however, influences the embodied self-conception of the oppressor, who finds himself compelled to adhere to some kind of invisible norm such as, e.g., “whiteness.”

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11007-011-9206-5

    136. Effijy says:

      Covid cases figures are up over 800 again.
      The Start of Boris’ second coming of death.

      Keep this Covid coming as more and more emergency
      Non disclosed contracts are given to Tory Family and Friends.

      These are the very best of times for corrupt UK politicians.

    137. Joe says:

      @Ottomanboi

      I wouldn’t say a narrow racialist view on Scotland would be correct, just or lead to anything except problems. The last sentence I used was just an example (and a very, very accurate one) of the situation in the world right now.

      Multi racialism is not the term that is flung around. Multicultural is. These are obviously totally different but conflated when it suits the needs of people who back this orwellian idea of multiculturalism.

      People who honestly question the total lack of consistency in what passes as modern ‘liberal’ (that’s post modern btw) thinking has all kinds of issues conflated to defend the dogma against critical thought.

      Most I see on these comments are against GRA. But supporters of GRA would call these others bigots.

      People (like WOS) might ask ‘how can you be a feminist while advocating for a law that would give legal protection to men who want access to womens private spaces?’ Of course this is insane, and the reactions from such a question is always anger and outrage – because that’s all they have.

      Trouble is the lack of logical thinking and the moral cowardice doesnt start or stop at GRA.

      How can someone be a feminist and think its a ‘phobia’ to criticise the dark age teachings of a certain religion? That is insane but there is a significant chunk of the population who hold these 2 mutually exclusive ideas in their heads at the same time.

      Which leads to – can all cultures really get along, side by side, sharing the same space, when criticism is not allowed?

      How can a feminist support the mass importation of men who believe women are of less worth than males?

      Im using that as an example but there are more.

      The trouble is, like GRA, there are a lot of unpleasant truths out there that the modern social justice minded person has to try and balance along with wishful thinking.

      Why is it that all the countries that Western, mostly English speaking people, inhabit happen to also be the most prosperous places to the point that many of the people in the rest of the world would like to be a part of it?

      The lazy answer is colonialism and the wealth of other nations building these economies. But that doesn’t explain our individual liberties and respect for basic rights. Nor does it explain our secularism. There’s more to building a successful country than pillaging elites – as Japan and Germany showed after being literally flattened after WWII.

      So there IS something inherent about us that has made us successful. I think it would be worthwhile trying to maintain recognise that – even if it means certain cultures or sub cultures get to feel unwelcome.

      Of course the answer, like the GRA activists, is simply to pretend this is not an issue, or is some far right talking point and to be dismissed.

      Unless of course its about English people coming to Scotland. Then its just fine with a lot of folks.

    138. Beaker says:

      We really should try to get an online live debate with a few of the above. It would certainly be more entertaining that fucking QT.

      On the other hand, given that many of us haven’t seen a barber / hairdresser for a few weeks, or have decided on a DIY haircut, it might turn into a Boris mop lookalike contest…

      Would give Chris some ideas 🙂

    139. CameronB Brodie says:

      “Multi racialism is not the term that is flung around. Multicultural is. These are obviously totally different but conflated when it suits the needs of people who back this orwellian idea of multiculturalism”

      Joe is punting his right-wing agenda on the back of moral indignation against genderwoowoo. He is unwilling to disclose his ethical and scientific position, so I’m happy to consider his views as simply prejudiced towards ethnic Others, a.k.a racist.

      Intersectionality: An Intellectual History
      The Multicultural Epistemology of Intersectionality

      https://www.oxfordscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780199370368.001.0001/acprof-9780199370368-chapter-3

    140. Pete says:

      Joe
      You have just articulated in a calm, sensitive manner without using disparaging language what I have been thinking for years but have only ever managed to receive abuse when I try to expound my views.
      One of the best example is the case of Muslim, mainly Pakistani men in the North of England who systematically abused poor white girls because they considered them to be trash.
      The liberal, left establishment consistently underplayed this because it didn’t fit into their world view of white bad, Muslim good.
      The BBC is guilty of under representing the white majority as ethnic minorities comprise 12 % of the population whereas BBC programmes have 22% ethnic representation. Most of us notice this but it is only when the facts are compiled that we can see how poorly white culture and practice is represented.

    141. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s a racist circle-jerk. I never thought I’d see one on WOS.

      Multiculturalism, Pluralism and Policymaking
      https://www.ideas-idees.ca/blog/multiculturalism-pluralism-and-policymaking

    142. Beaker says:

      Totally o/t.

      If you are looking for something to do on Sat 25 July, Ridley Scott and Kevin MacDonald are inviting anyone – and they mean anyone – to film themselves for the “Life in a Day” documentary. Just after a normal day what you are doing – nothing fancy or glossy. The idea is to document a snapshot of one day this year. The final version will be shown at Sundance.

      Check out http://lifeinaday.youtube

    143. Dan says:

      Well on a positive note… at least if folk have no bread they won’t be eating shite flour.

      #BrexshitBonus guess it’s just another reason to BDS Warburtons

      https://twitter.com/EUflagmafia/status/1279006734821064705

    144. CameronB Brodie says:

      Yes, British constitutionalism has allowed right-wing populism and English cultural prejudice, to transform the legal protections we ‘enjoy’ in Brexitania, in a manner that will significantly endanger public health. Scotland voted against this lunacy, but Scotland is a legal inferior, constitutionally speaking, apparently.

      Here’s a useful guide to understanding the sort of legal discrimination that wants to determine Scotland’s potential and access to justice.

      Full text.

      Substantive Equality in International Human Rights Law and Its Relevance for the Resolution of Tibetan Autonomy Claims
      https://core.ac.uk/reader/151516502

    145. Dan says:

      Is the alternative Pro-Indy Regional List Party concept “Playing with Fire”…

      Who would have thought using YOUR vote to express YOUR political choice is “Playing with Fire”…

      Some might say enabling politicians to form a Government Adminstration to enact policies you do not want really is “Playing with Fire”…

      https://twitter.com/Caesar!nnachHail/status/1281651774638764032

    146. Dan says:

      Yawn, replace Caesar! in link to A l b a without the gaps.

    147. PacMan says:

      Pete says:11 July, 2020 at 8:25 pm

      The BBC is guilty of under representing the white majority as ethnic minorities comprise 12 % of the population whereas BBC programmes have 22% ethnic representation. Most of us notice this but it is only when the facts are compiled that we can see how poorly white culture and practice is represented.

      The BBC are reflecting the ethnic makeup of London in their programming, well apart from Eastenders, which I believe the real life London East End has a more diverse population than is seen on that programme.

      If you want to moan about the ‘Ethnics’ on the BBC, complain about how Londoncentric that organisation is rather than the genuine need to bring a more diverse programming to the channel.

    148. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      The page doesn’t exist. A bit like the prospects for Scotland’s cultural integrity, without a constitutional backstop to stop us being further removed from international law and order.

      Equality and Non-discrimination, Formal and Substantive Equality
      1 The Ideas of Equality and Non-Discrimination: Formal and Substantive Equality

      http://www.equalrightstrust.org/ertdocumentbank//The%20Ideas%20of%20Equality%20and%20Non-discrimination,%20Formal%20and%20Substantive%20Equality.pdf

    149. callmedave says:

      I was listening to this interview this morning on radio shortbread as Brewer twice interrupted his expert guest as she was uttered the forbidden phrase…”The Scottish Gov approach has been excellent and…”

      Too quick of the mark with his “But…but.. a population’s share”

      I’m glad someone else noted it.
      Brewer is wee auntie’s man wie a kilt in A l b a. 🙁

      —————————————————————-
      Dear Gordon, ‘brutal fact’ is covid-19 deaths in Scotland are currently 24 times lower per head of population than in England

      https://archive.is/UDnRz

    150. Sinky says:

      Instead of naval gazing about GRA and phantom List Parties, those who really,really WANT independence would be far better tackling the distortions and lies we are getting from Unionist politicians, the BBC and MSM by correcting their errors politely backed up with reputable sources.

      Prof Roberson is doing fantastic work on this for example calling out Gordon Brewer this morning and Call Kaye yesterday.

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/07/11/gordon-brewer-stupidly-interrupts-a-professor-with-irrelevant-facts-about-historical-deaths-in-scotland-as-the-infection-rate-in-england-soars-to-more-than-20-times-higher-per-capita/

      Unionist are trying to say Scotland’s record on Covid is no better than England when this is patently untrue

      https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=nations&map=rate

      THe BBC should be challenged on why they don’t publish the daily Covid figures for each of the home nations. The reason they don’t is to protect the Tory government.

      UK new deaths reported today:
      England: 147
      Scotland: 0
      Wales: 1
      N.Ireland: 0

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ah, a politics wonk.

      South African Journal on Human Rights, Volume 21, 2005 – Issue 2
      Providing Equality: Substantive Equality and the Positive Duty to Provide

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19962126.2005.11865132

    152. Dan says:

      CameronB Brodie says: at 9:20 pm

      Dan
      The page doesn’t exist.

      Aye it bloomin’ does! Ya jist have to alter the spelling of the link coz of the bloody word filter on here. 😉

      If folk really cannae be arsed altering link it reads like someone I could send a box full of yella pens tae…
      But switched on folk might be advised to check it out to see what the counter narrative is to the PIRLP concept looks like.

      What’s the qualifications required these days to be an SNP Political Education Officer? Just repeat three words written on a pen. Christ nae wonder Scotland isnae able to get its shit the gether.
      Ahh, it aw takes me back to the last Cooncil Elections where eventually, about 24 hours before polling day, the “Vote Till Ya Boak” message was finally acknowledged as how to use the Single Transferable Vote system…

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate Scotland might not be ready to face the fact that it is under threat of legal subjugation by English fascism, but unless the Scottish government arranges for a constitutional backstop, there is no telling if we will ever get a say in Scotland’s future. If we allow Scotland to be removed from the EU by political FORCE, we are capitulating to eugenics and helping to harm global human rights.

      Beyond Formal Equality
      Positive Action under Directives 2000/43/EC and 2000/78/EC

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19962126.2005.11865132

    154. CameronB Brodie says:

      Dan
      I got there eventually and replied. 😉

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19962126.2005.11865132

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      Sorry, that was the wrong link to the EU report.

      https://ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet?docId=1679&langId=en

    156. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB (7.59) –

      ‘Sorry for being a space-hog…’

      You’re not sorry.

      Not one wee toty bit.

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I’m not really the pushy sort Ian, but I have an ethically informed scientific and legal training. Does it annoy you that I want to share this useful, practical knowledge?

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      The fact that you want to share knowledge doesn’t annoy me in the slightest. Nor should it.

      It’s the way you do it that makes me want to chew off my own fuckin elbows.

    159. call me dave says:

      callmedave says:
      11 July, 2020 at 5:12 pm

      Saturday corona figures. Now updated since getting in and checking out the official figure: WOW! not 39 anymore.

      NOTE: N. Ireland no longer report over the weekend but I have included their numbers.

      Scotland……today………00……Total……2490…BBC
      Wales………today………01……Total……1541…BBC
      N. Ireland……………….00……Total…….554
      England…….today……..*38……Total….*29051..*SUN
      =======================================================
      UK…………today……..^148……Total….^44798..^MAIL+SUN

    160. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      How so, I’m open to constructive criticism?

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      ‘I’m open to constructive criticism.’

      No, you’re not.

      You make a show of inviting it, then ignore it completely.

      You’ve been given friendly, diplomatic advice by some long-standing Wingers, and others have expressed themselves more bluntly.

      It makes no difference. You just plough on, oblivious.

      I can’t and don’t speak for anyone else on here. I’ve tried being honest with you but it wasn’t worth the grief so I won’t try again.

    162. schrodingers cat says:

      @ianbh
      great post

    163. Capella says:

      @ Beaker – Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra Beaker – I cannae divert a whole squadron to Rutherglen. We’re on manoeuvres from first light to secure the border. First we take Hawick then we take Coldstream.

      Stay alert for incoming… whatever.

    164. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      So you wold have me follow opinion I disagree with?

    165. Dogbiscuit says:

      So is it true that hospital staff in Houston Texas have learned nothing in four months? I’ve just checked out The Texas Tribune you may as well read the Guardian.

    166. Dogbiscuit says:

      CBB you’re always falling out with people.

    167. Dogbiscuit says:

      I can see a great future for shebeens.

    168. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate the epistemic injustice of me simply dumping high-end social theory and law on folk who lack my training, but I’m afraid this is the best I can do, as Educational Theory and Practice was not one of my specialties. I’m also very rusty and there’s zommers to compete with. We also don’t have much time left to defend Scottish culture. I’m not saying I’m without fault but I like to think I know a bit about punting ethical rationalism.

      Theories and Frameworks for Online Education:
      Seeking an Integrated Model

      Abstract
      This article examines theoretical frameworks and models that focus on the pedagogical aspects of online education. After a review of learning theory as applied to online education, a proposal for an integrated Multimodal Model for Online Education is provided based on pedagogical purpose.

      The model attempts to integrate the work of several other major theorists and model builders such as Anderson (2011).

      Keywords:
      Online education, online learning, blended learning, learning theory, theoretical
      frameworks, model building, multimodal model

      https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1154117.pdf

    169. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      You’ll do whatever you want.

      This is ‘your’ stage.

      Doesn’t matter that others spent years helping to build it. You – in your own words – are ‘just happy to exploit the biggest Scottish politics blog’.

      If if was down to me you would’ve been hoofed yonks ago.

      But it’s not my shout, so on ye go mister.

      I really couldn’t care less any more.

    170. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I’d have hoped you might have had better interpretive skills, given you set cross-words and you’re a published author. Are you really unable to detect the direction and intention of my patter? Have you ever had to sell yourself to an indifferent, even hostile, audience? If the Rev. was unhappy with my practice he’d tell me. I think he’s only told me off for being a bit rough with the cat. Happy to be corrected though.

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      P.S. I also got told off for suggesting the EU isn’t squeaky clean, but that was a very long time ago.

    172. Capella says:

      @ Dan – this site also changes S-a-o-r to Hail. But the link still worked with only changing Caesar to a-l-b-a.
      Good thread. The debate about a second list party is certainly heating up.

    173. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB –

      Hey, what-ever.

      Like I said, I really don’t care any more.

      Do what you like.

    174. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      That’s a shame, but it’s not going to stop me doing everything I can to help prevent my access to human rights being further impaired by British constitutionalism. And folk who are determined to place politics above the law (see Brexit).

      Dignity and the Phenomenology of
      Recognition-Respect

      https://philpapers.org/archive/KRIDAT-3.pdf

    175. Capella says:

      @ Dan – Although the argument seemed to be that replacing a Green with an ISP would be an own goal. I don’t agree. Perhaps Allbanach supports the Greens?

    176. Gary45% says:

      Cameron B,
      Friendly advice.
      Ian B is one of the good guys.
      I’ll leave it at that.

    177. schrodingers cat says:

      cbbc’s

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE17sNjmW7c

      we’ve got lumps of it behind the back 🙂

    178. CameronB Brodie says:

      Gary45%
      Totally, I just wish Ian would RTFM, or at least dip his toes a little.

    179. Beaker says:

      @Capella says:
      11 July, 2020 at 10:32 pm
      “@ Beaker – Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra Beaker – I cannae divert a whole squadron to Rutherglen. We’re on manoeuvres from first light to secure the border. First we take Hawick then we take Coldstream.
      Stay alert for incoming… whatever.”

      Don’t worry. As soon as the pubs reopen then “normal” service will resume here. No military intervention necessary.

    180. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @CamB (11.44) –

      I don’t know what RTFM stands for.

      What I do know, using my limited ‘interpretive’ skills, is that this –

      ‘I appreciate the epistemic injustice of me simply dumping high-end social theory and law on folk who lack my training..’

      – says an awful lot more about you than it does about anyone who can’t (or chooses not to) ‘appreciate’ your links.

      But now, sah, ’tis the witching-hour and I must be abed!

      😉

    181. Papko says:

      Part of the greatest England side to ever grace a pitch. A legend in England & Ireland! Thanks for the memories Big Jack!

    182. schrodingers cat says:

      Alex Gallacher
      @ga11acher

      I joined the SNP in the 70’s as a nationalist, Gordon Wilson leader of the party at the time said ” I’m a nationalist not because I’m proud of my country but because I’m ashamed of it, we can do better” and to this day I agree with that, Devo is past, 2021 plebiscite manifesto
      —————
      and another 🙂

    183. Capella says:

      @ Beaker – understood. We appear to be standing in a barrage of crossfire. Normal evening on WoS I suppose. Watched a whole evening of Scandi noir to lighten the mood too.
      Deepwater, police procedural set in chilly dark Finland. Full of bad people. Must be the SAD.

      Sleep tight. 🙂

    184. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      Sorry Ian, that was unfair. I appreciate you’ve taken the time and effort to dip your toes, even though the evidence I was offering might not have hit the mark.

    185. Papko says:

      “@ Beaker – Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra Beaker – I cannae divert a whole squadron to Rutherglen

      I don’t understand why the FM does not form the AUOB into a citizens militia, and we can man the border with Scots born patriots.

    186. schrodingers cat says:

      2021 plebiscite manifesto 🙂

    187. Capella says:

      Sorry, not Deepwater, that was an oil rig. Darkwind. Recommended by Lesley Riddoch.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ian Brotherhood
      I certainly don’t want to you to think I lack respect for you, but “Read The Fn Manual”. Night, night. 😉

    189. Oscar says:

      Capella,,,

      With your continued support for Sturgeon, you will be complicit in the sexual assaults on any female attacked in “woman only” safe spaces.

      Be it on your own head.

      Let’s see how vocal you are about the Sturgeon leadership once innocent woman and girls start being abused in THEIR place of safety.

      And the come back from you about how popular Sturgeon’s approval ratings are,,,,in 1939/40 a certain Adolf Hitler’s approval ratings in Germany were through the roof.

      I wonder how that turned out?

    190. Oscar says:

      Is it safe to come on to Wings?

      Just the usual nutters hanging around

    191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Oscar –

      When you get no reaction to your posts, you then scattergun the same comments all over the place.

      Do you not know how to retire gracefully?

    192. Oscar says:

      Brian what ever the fuck your name is,,,

      Did you read the post?

      And if so, do you agree with the post?

    193. Oscar says:

      Brian what ever the fuck your name is,,,

      Are you the guy that was allegedly accused of taking the bucket of money home with the guy Ronnie after all the Rallies in the run up to indyRef1?

    194. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Oscar –

      My name is Brian Doonthetoon. I have had that name on’t web since late 1990s. Many REAL people I have met know me by that name.

      I agree with next to nothing that you post.

      You are a stirrer and many contributors here recognise as such.

      Therefore, go forth and self-procreate.

    195. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T

      Demographics is life and death and cannot be undone ! The No majority in 2014 was 400K come May 2021 there will have been 400K deaths in Scotland since September 2014.

      However there will have been 400K New Young Voters added to the Voting Register plus every EU Citizen will now vote for Scottish Independence !

      Complacency can NOT be tolerated EVERY VOTE COUNTS !

      GET REGISTERED and VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE !

      END LONDON RULE !

    196. Liz g says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 12.43
      Here comes the name demented calling Brian…brace brace brace 🙂

    197. Liz g says:

      James Barr Gardiner @ 1.04
      OT it might be but thank you we don’t discuss this enough.
      Voter Registration is,I think, going to be so important!

    198. CameronB Brodie says:

      Oh, I also got told off for being a disrespectful egghead who wanted to turn each thread into a lecture, or something like that. That is kind of what I’m trained to do though, and we were up to our elbows in crocogators undermining public health and punting right-wing populism. I did apologise for stepping on any toes that didn’t need stepping on.

      Nordic Journal of Human Rights, Volume 34, 2016 – Issue 4
      Human Rights and Substantive Equality in the Adjudication of Ethnic Practices

      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/18918131.2016.1243881

    199. defo says:

      I, me, me,my,I, me…

    200. Dan says:

      Capella says: at 11:06 & 11.26pm

      The debate about a second list party is certainly heating up.”

      &

      “Although the argument seemed to be that replacing a Green with an ISP would be an own goal. I don’t agree. Perhaps Allbanach supports the Greens?

      Second point first: Yeah, they could be a Green supporter. My offering a box full of yellow pens suggestion was more to make the point of them appearing to be a status quoer which for many folk, because of both SNP & Green behaviour and policies is something they no longer feel able to fully support.

      First point: Aye, and this absolutely needs to happen with more discussion and input from people so there is time to coalesce around a sensible way to take this forward.
      There seem to be a remarkable timidity and unreceptive attitude displayed by some on this subject, with them producing responses and articles stating base messages of “splitting the vote” (no it’s fucking not), and essentially to just keep voting for the two Pro-Indy parties that are straying into the exact same modus as Westminster by enacting policies the electorate do not want.

      Due to time constraints and various other reasons the Pro-Indy Regional List Party concept would work best if there is a single viable alternative PIRLP on the ballot paper for current disgruntled SNP supporters and other folk that lent them their votes to cast their 2nd vote for.
      That said I suppose there could be several PIRLPs as long as they only stood in agreed specific regions so votes are pooled to a single entity which concentrates the vote and affords the best chances of success. This however would make campaigning more difficult as a simple Scotland wide (probably minus borders and possibly highlands & islands regions) message would not be appropriate, but if multiple new PIRLPs formed then they could select very region specific local candidates in their respective areas.
      This is why we need to be having these conversations now to sort out and agree which option we coalesce around.
      If we don’t sort this out soon then as activists we’ll be the ones having to try to market a compromised “product” which was decided by others without our specific local knowledge and experience of what makes our areas tick.

      I noticed Martin Keatings mention a couple of weeks back he would be standing as an independent candidate as a matter of his principle in Mid Scotland & Fife. This is an area that returned no SNP list MSPs for 120k votes.
      Standing as an independent individual and not for a list party effectively makes the PIRLP concept compromised straight off the bat in that area.
      He’s absolutely entitled to stand, but has there been any conversations and agreements reached with those in the wider region that this is the best way to proceed.

    201. Liz g says:

      Dan @ 8.32
      Agreed..

    202. @James Barr Gardner,

      the one caveat to what you posted is that there will be 400,000 Scots shuflling from middle age >65 into old age and maybe more reluctant to change political status quo,

      “The Lord giveth and
      the Lord taketh away” 🙂

    203. Rm says:

      John Swinney says don’t vote for another party if you support the SNP it should only be the SNP, he seems to settled, ending the Union should be what him and the rest of the SNP politicians are striving for and do it any way no what you have to do, once we are on our own every politician should be an independent and work for the people who voted them in.

    204. Oscar says:

      House Jock Andrew Marr tells us this in his own derogatory way,,,

      “…and I travelled up to Scotland this week…”

      That’ll be that wee toon at the bottom of Ben Nevis, will it Andrew?

      It’s funny how these bastards from South of our border can name every single city, town and village in england, but when it comes to Scotland they only seem to remember the name of the country.

    205. Dan says:

      I suppose these are worth re-posting from earlier in the year in light of all the recent money Dom is spending.

      https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228259096366854147

      https://twitter.com/BettGunther/status/1228225075695898624

    206. jfngw says:

      I see the ltest unionist trend is to claim the outcome of the virus no different in Scotland and England. Currently being punted by BBC Scotland and the Herald (the Herald have found a mathematical biologist, one that deals with mathematical computer models rather than reality to give them the copy they wanted). The BBC merely use stats obtained using different measurement methods, they think we are stupid.

      The Herald ‘expert’ claims the change from the UK model has made no difference, he obviously has a problem dealing with real numbers and graphs which clearly show a dramatic changes once the SG started using their own experts.

      They are clearly worried that Scotland doing better at handling anything will drive the idea ‘maybe we could do everything better ourselves’, that’s why people like Carlaw want to see us going back to just mirroring England. It’s a dangerous situation when some of your politicians want to see our country fail so it can remain the vassal of their ambitions.

    207. Breeks says:

      Hmmmm… Sturgeon on Marr says she won’t discuss her plans for Independence until we know the final details of COVID…

      Sounds strangely familiar for some reason….

    208. Ottomanboi says:

      OSCAR 09:21
      Could have been “I travelled up north this week”.
      The north covering all the outlandish bits beyond the home counties.

    209. Stuart MacKay says:

      Brexit Party’s election campaign to scrap the Senedd: http://archive.is/AQjM6

      Coming soon to a country region near you.

      Clearly they’re not likely to do the same north of the border but they do set the tone for the debate and the more rabid exceptionalists darn sarf will want this on the agenda for the Tories as the uppity Scots are clearly not their British often enough or expressing enough gratitude for their privileges.

      Could be great for independence if the timing was right but the risk of it all going horribly, horribly wrong could be pretty high. It would definitely take a leader with a considerable mount of backbone to make it work.

    210. Willie says:

      John Swinney’s comment about voting SNP for constituency and list do not make sense. Voting SNP in the list is a wasted vote because the d’honde system is there to disadvantage successful list parties.

      Nearly a million SNP votes delivering four seats whilst an Indy list party with a similar vote could achieve around 24 seats is the example.

      John Swinney has been a stalwart in the support of independence. Pragmatic and sensible it is truly difficult to understand why he has come out with the line that he has. But the SNP has changed. No longer, at least for the current ruling clique, the passion of independence, but rather the acceptance of paid employment in the service of a devolved government secondary to Westminster.

      It is I think as simple as that. There are a lot of folk earning a living out of devolved government. Bought and sold for English gold.

      But there is another reason to. Maybe the current SNP coterie of control do not want a super independence majority in the Scottish Parliament. Maybe they see a super majority as something that will move them off their comfortable ad Infinitum devolution sinecure, because make no mistake a super majority for independence would change things, and the comfortable time servers know it.

      A list party however makes so much sense. To true SNP supporters it should pose no threat at all. Indeed, the surveys tell us that. Voting SNP constituency and Indy list is easy to understand and will deliver.

      To stand against it however is a declaration against independence, and a declaration for narrow party’s partisan interests from those who have no real interest in independence.

      But things change, positions change, and the concept of a list party is now starting to blow through the corridors of complacency. John Swinney’s comments were maybe not his last comments on the matter. He is a sensible, pragmatic and loyal politician who ultimately will, as he’s always done, do the right thing.

      Are you listening Mrs Murrell?

    211. Papko says:

      @Jings

      “The Herald ‘expert’ claims the change from the UK model has made no difference, he obviously has a problem dealing with real numbers and graphs which clearly show a dramatic changes once the SG started using their own experts.”

      Was wondering if you could clarify what the SG did differently?

      They stuck to a slogan and have emerged slower for lock-doon is that the gist of it?

    212. Oscar says:

      Ottomanboi

      Yes,,,”up North” is another one of their derogatory terms.

    213. jfngw says:

      @Pinko

      That is a major difference, apart from changing how you come out of lockdown and control the spread what else is there to do. Your question could be how did New Zealand really differ, it didn’t in any actual procedures, just timing and intensity.

      There is no magic answer, it’s just down to commitment to try and eliminate it in a country.

    214. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Dan says:
      11 July, 2020 at 9:05 pm

      “Who would have thought using YOUR vote to express YOUR political choice is “Playing with Fire”…”

      I’m sure there will be people who read Hail Ceasars Blog and fail to spot that the Straw Elephant-man did it in the Sophistry Room with a Red Herring.

      I think it was Arthur Donaldson who said, that the Question the original Devolution Referendum should have been boiled down to was : Will You Vote for Your Country – Or are You a Shit?

      The same could be said of this List Vote … but I’m not so sure I would like to collect on a bet on who the biggest Shits are going to be this time.

    215. Dogbiscuit says:

      Mathematical computer modelling underpins our current lack of freedom and civil rights.

    216. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Watcfhing Nicola Sturgeon on “Marr” and now Fergus Ewing on “Brewer,” I cannot help but think, the SNP spokes-people on TV have developed an infuriating habit of loving the sound of their own voices.

      Shorter, sharper answers please – less chance of their interrogators, who, being Unionists, perhaps see the SNP representatives as “hostile witnesses,” being able to interrupt.

      If the question being asked merits a Yes or No answer, do that. It just might get to them, since they would be unable to follow-up with a loaded supplementary.

    217. Dogbiscuit says:

      Oscar why don’t you get on your pony and invade England? Set an example to the rest of us. Don’t be stopping over in Leeds though .

    218. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Reading that last one back, I am also sure that some will read it and think – WTF wiz he oan aboot?

    219. Dogbiscuit says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has no plan to advance Independence.

    220. Sinky says:

      Gordon Brewer grills Fergus Ewing on health matters but doesn’t mention Westminster power grab of food standards

    221. Mags says:

      Hello ……I think this might interested you

      Says alot about skewing the numbers

      twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1278995351169613824

    222. Ottomanboi says:

      SCOT FINLAYSON 09:03
      There is no argument, European populations are ageing. Babies seem totally out of fashion even when the state welfare is generous. Does Europe have an extinction wish?
      A middle aged Scotland will be thinking pensions and old age care not radical political reform.
      Maybe Sturgeon is aware of that and does not want to scare the delicate sensibilities.
      Covid-19 suppression appears to be aimed more at ‘protecting’ the aged than catering for the societal needs of the young.
      A young population is less risk averse hence the high pro-independence ratings.
      A bit of a mashup!

    223. Oscar says:

      Dog biscuit

      I would cross the border in a heart beat to defend Scotland.

      But I know I would be wasting my time, because the cowards of engerland wouldn’t come out to play.

      They would all be hiding behind their mammies aprons.

      Like the vast majority of big mouthed Yoons,,,all talk and no action.

      Their favoured enemies are girls under the age of ten who wave Saltires.

      Or countries who can only fight back using spears and bow and arrows.

      So me going over the border to slap a few english cowards about wouldn’t be a problem.

    224. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Willie says @10:16

      “It is I think as simple as that. There are a lot of folk earning a living out of devolved government. Bought and sold for English gold.”

      Either that or their loyalty is to some hidden secondary ideology, naked control-freakery or both, and would not be comfortable having some mavericks muddying the waters by bleating on about Independence all the time.

      For anyone who hasn’t seen this yet …

      https://listvotescotland.com

    225. Capella says:

      @ Dan – The Alb*nnach thread does put forward a very persuasive argument. If the ISP needs approx 30% of the regional vote to gain seats in most constituencies then, of course, without a big name like Alex Salmond, it’s unlikely to get that.

      That’s the opposite of Gavin Barrie’s argument that only 10% ? is needed to gain seats. So which is it? and how likely is someone like Alex Salmond (and is there anyone bigger than him?) to go along with a rival party to the SNP. We probably won’t know that until after the Holyrood inquiry in August.

      I would like to see another article by Gavin – or Stu – running the figures again.

      His point about the loss of a Green seat being an own goal is wrong IMO. I would vote ISP instead of Green because of GRA and HCB. I don’t know how many others would do the same. Was that one of Stu’s poll questions?

      RScotland this morning has had a couple of items on Transgender issues. Looks like they will be spending more time informing the public now. So that number could grow as people find out what is being proposed.

      Finally – I have no issue with John Swinney saying vote SNP/SNP. You could hardly expect anything else from the leadership. RScotland asked him if Kenny MacAskill would be disciplined for his article advocating a second party list vote. So we can see whether KM does get his knuckles wrapped. Or if the leadership think it is up to the YES movement to make the running here.

    226. James Barr Gardner says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      12 July, 2020 at 9:03 am

      “The Lord giveth and
      the Lord taketh away”

      Correlation between dramatic crash of Scottish newspaper circulations and death of Unionist vote ? Scots turning to the Internet for information and demand for truth, truly a sea change since September 2014, no going back now ! The stats and polls have passed the tipping point, the Empire is now in it’s final death throes.

      The status quo per se has effectively left the building, the total incompetence by the so called London tory elite, Coronavirus, climate change activists, the lid of Pandora’s Box has been ripped off and thrown away !

      My wife who never shown any interest in politics ever in our 42 years of marriage is now joining the SNP, ordinary folk in Scotland have had enough of London misrule.

      The only thing that will rob Scotland of it’s Independence is COMPLACENCY and the failure to Register to Vote. ALL VOTES ARE NEEDED TO SHOW BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND HAVE SPOKEN WITH ONE VOICE !

      End the Union and Let Scotland Prosper !

    227. Breeks says:


      Socrates MacSporran says:
      12 July, 2020 at 10:40 am
      Watcfhing Nicola Sturgeon on “Marr” and now Fergus Ewing on “Brewer,” I cannot help but think, the SNP spokes-people on TV have developed an infuriating habit of loving the sound of their own voices…

      What get’s my goat is kicking Indy into the long grass because of COVID, (who asked them to?) but then the leisurely waffle about the unimportant and trivial minutiae about some obscure COVID related irrelevance.

      Brexit is charging on apace, and yet we’re twiddling our thumbs, fretting about support for kids in childcare because it’s tangentially related to COVID. Tell me again why Indy must be put on hold? The Tories haven’t stopped Torying for a moment. Is this some kind of Marquis of Queensbury rule, where we curl up into a ball until the Tories say it’s safe for us to come out?

      How I ache in my bones to see some progress on the Alex Salmond front….

    228. Tartanpigsy says:

      What a state the comments on here have become.!
      Let alone the direction if travel. We have a major headache coming up of a mandate being squandered.
      I do think the goalposts have now moved from securing indyref2 to securing independence, by what ever means. We should be discussing that!
      The exact make up of a list pro Indy alternative should be being discussed as well. ISP as a stand alone are not going to garner much support.
      The Yes Alliance is the ideal name to appear on the list, if, as I suspect, we don’t get a March/April indyref.
      All serious players should be putting aside any egos and future career dreams to make that workable, powerful and electable.
      Get your heads together!
      Stop squabbling and plan the take down of the enemy, the British State!

    229. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Cappella

      Use the link above.

      Key to the success of an assault on the list vote, is the SNP declining to stand in the list, at least outwith the two regions where they have list MSP’s.

      That way every word “The Caesar Hailer” wrote becomes irrelevant, which is no doubt why that option was not addressed, in what was dressed up as an in depth analysis.

    230. jfngw says:

      @Capella

      It depends on where they take the vote from on the list. If they are just taking votes from the SNP then they need over 30% before they make any real inroads. So unless they can take votes from the unionist side it really is a hard task.

      I’ve posted this before, it was linked to by Denise Finlay in her twitter feed. It only allows moving the SNP vote but is an indication of what is required if unionist party votes are not taken.

      https://listvotescotland.com/scotland/

    231. jfngw says:

      @Col.BlimpIV

      Apologies I hadn’t noticed you had already posted the link. I shouldn’t read the posts from the bottom up, bad habit.

    232. Oscar says:

      Capella,,,,

      With your continued support for Sturgeon, you will be complicit in the sexual assaults on any female attacked in “woman only” safe spaces.

      Be it on your own head.

      Let’s see how vocal you are about the Sturgeon leadership once innocent woman and girls start being abused in THEIR place of safety.

      And the come back from you about how popular Sturgeon’s approval ratings are,,,,in 1939/40 a certain Adolf Hitler’s approval ratings in Germany were through the roof.

      I wonder how that turned out?

    233. liz says:

      Nicola perfected the 45 min speech saying nothing a long time ago.

      Her response to Covid is now really annoying me.
      We have about 300 people in the whole of Scotland in hospital with suspected Covid, the annual death rate is below average, there is no doubt she is politicising this and it will not stop until she is challenged.

      It’s becoming almost impossible to have a rational discussion on twitter with pro indy supporters, except for a few very astute people.
      You get shot down in flames for questioning her lack of policy on indy.

      I think more than ever there are SNP SPADS all over SM, they’ve learned that from WM.

      Anyway Swinney’s comment was ridiculous, they got FOUR list seats for 900,000 votes. Why are they so scared of ISP?
      Not that Hepworth woman pushing the Greens, it’s obvious to me this is comng from the NEC.

      Two things give me hope, Alex S seems more vocal on SM, he specifically spoke to Grouse Beater, which was lovely and his ‘the dream will never die’.
      Plus hopefully, Joanna Cherry getting in for Edin Central.

    234. schrodingers cat says:

      impatience for indy on an indy political blog site? who wud hae thunk it.
      nicola is playing a blinder, her job isnt to appeal to the 45%, she is appealing to the 55% who dont vote yes and her tactics are working. what is ripping folks knitting today is not scottish independence or indeed brexit. its the covid pandemic, which is not over. england is on a knife edge, 147 deaths yesterday, in a matter of days that could start to rise exponentially. westminsters reputational loss will be nicola’s and the independence cause gain

    235. Capella says:

      @ jfngw @ Col Blimp IV – you’re right. The SNP would have to agree, if only tacitly, not to stand in some regions. There are nearly 1 m votes to be had there.

      What the unionists did in the GE, which s FPTP, is field impossible candidates, late in the campaign, with no canvassing and rubbish leaflets. It was clear which candidate every unionist was to vote for. That is collusion and illegal but they got away with it. I doubt the SNP would get away with anything.

    236. @James Barr Gardner,

      i`m sure you are correct, all we need is the key to open the door to independence,

      bit like Bilbo on Mount Doom,

      anyhoo,

      i just feel people forget when they say that a lot of the 75% of older generation that voted No have `passed over` but forget time doesn`t stop for those who were just outside the `older generation` in 2014.

    237. Liz g says:

      I don’t get what the people complaining are expecting the SNP to say about the new ISP party!
      No political party as far as I’m aware advocates for another.
      Not to mention that the British Parties would,I think, be very quick to run to the Electoral Commission and complain that the new party was really a front for the SNP to cheat the system and demand that they be removed from the ballot.

      Even when we all knew that the British Party’s activists were promoting “tactically” voting to keep the SNP out.
      The British Parties themselves did not actually state that they were working for anything other than a vote for themselves.
      The notable thing is that the were never confronted about it when interviewed.

      The SNP will most likely always be asked about the ISP now because it’s a win,win for the British Media….they either risk the anger of the Yes movement for not endorsing the chance of an Indy majority Holyrood, or they can be accused of collusion and having two bites at the cherry.

      I’d say let’s not play that game…
      The SNP will always answer both votes SNP and we should not see that as a bad thing but rather view that as keeping the two parties in play?
      And I for one don’t want the two Scottish party’s on the same page in every thing anyway either,we’ve had that buddying up constantly with the British Party’s and we really didn’t like it!

      An actual opposition without a British Nationalist agenda is not only something need now…..we need it when the Yes vote comes in and we need it ( remember we all wondered in 2014 how a Holyrood opposition would come about ) going forward.

      One more thing a Normal Independent Country has, checked off the list and one more British myth ( one party state ) destroyed.

    238. jfngw says:

      @Capella

      I can’t ever see the SNP doing that, and it may raise some eyebrows at the electoral commission if they did.

      Anyway the number of independence MSP’s, although desirable just to oust some of the London representatives, is minor to the percentage vote for independence parties. If we can’t get this above 50% then Westminster is just going to go down the ‘no mandate’ route. And if we use it as a plebiscite and fail then the games a bogey until the next election.

      The other Westminster rouse almost certainly will be if a single independence party doesn’t achieve over 50% they are again going to go down the ‘no mandate route’ as they are doing just now. I also can’t see how you have a plebiscite election if you have multiple independence parties and a split vote on it, playing into Westminster’s hand.

      It’s complex and until we see manifesto’s and polls nearer the time I’m holding my position on what to do. Although high leads in polls can be dangerous as people believe it’s a done deal may not bother voting.

    239. liz says:

      SC are you Murrell perchance, either that or you are very gullible?

      She is not playing any blinder,her latest ruse is, we will have to wait until post Covid economic recovery, ie, never.

    240. liz says:

      PS Capella, you may have missed an NEC member saying vote Green, if you don’t want SNP x 2.
      How much more evidence do you need?

    241. Capella says:

      @ Liz g – spot on. I think what this does show is what Tartan Pigsy is saying above. The YES movement is the engine for getting the vote:
      a registered
      b out on the day
      c educated about how the system works.

      We have time to do this while the virus is still active. Perhaps by September we should be organised about registering voters and developing information leaflets online.

    242. Ron Maclean says:

      From: ‘Now sometimes offensive’ by Rev. Stuart Campbell 9 July 2020

      ‘Astonished says:
      9 July, 2020 at 4:15 pm
      P.S. Care to guess why the Anti-Scottish media are not reporting this GENUINE split between SNP activists and the SNP glitterati ?
      I am certain it is being saved for indy2.

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      9 July, 2020 at 4:21 pm
      “P.S. Care to guess why the Anti-Scottish media are not reporting this GENUINE split between SNP activists and the SNP glitterati ?”
      It’s largely because they’ve realised that their best bet to preserve the Union is to keep Nicola Sturgeon in office. They know there’s absolutely no chance of a Unionist FM for the next five years, so the next best thing is an SNP one with no intention of actually delivering independence. They’re worked out that if they damage her too much she might get replaced by someone a lot more dangerous.’

      That statement by Rev. Stuart Campbell doesn’t seem to have attracted any interest but in my view it should have. Perhaps commenters were too engrossed in an unusually entertaining thesis linked by Cam the Spam.

      Nicola Sturgeon, as First Minister, might be concentrating on protecting us from Covid19 but she is still the leader of the SNP and she has a leadership team, MPs, MSPs and their hangers-on under her control. What are they doing to bring about the primary aim of the SNP’s constitution? What happened to the person who said ‘Scotland’s voice must be heard’, ‘The SNP is winning the case for independence’ and ‘I think you should always aim for more’.

      Why isn’t ‘someone a lot more dangerous’ challenging her for the SNP leadership?

    243. Capella says:

      @ liz – I did hear someone say that. Not going to happen in the Capella residence. As long as the SNP depend on the Greens for their majority they are going to have to play nice with the Greens. But we don’t have to.

      However, there are many aspects of Green policy I would vote for. And I have a lot of respect for Andy Wightman and Alison Johnston. Both of them have put forward excellent proposals for protecting tenants, limiting Air BNB in Edinburgh, and protecting mountain hares. Also the Land Value Tax and Universal Basic Income. Also, why on earth has Rosanna Cunningham not yet implemented the Werrity Report and licensed grouse moors etc etc.

      I’m sure most of us have a long list of gripes about things done or not done.

    244. schrodingers cat says:

      Liz g says:
      I don’t get what the people complaining are expecting the SNP to say about the new ISP party!
      No political party as far as I’m aware advocates for another.
      —————————–
      correct, however, this wont stop liz and others of the hard of thinking section from complaining about it

    245. schrodingers cat says:

      liz says:
      She is not playing any blinder,her latest ruse is, we will have to wait until post Covid recovery, ie, never.
      ——————–
      never? you mean we are doomed?

      jings, LAST ORDERS PLEASE

    246. Effijy says:

      During Covid Scotland had a real person leader.
      Someone who could have been your next door neighbour
      Who understands how we live and real
      Life priorities.

      Unlike Boris she has never been sacked for being a pathological liar
      and someone who didn’t constantly contradict what she was saying
      And she could say it with crystal clear clarity.

      When one advisor broke the lockdown rules they had to go.
      With Boris shaking Covid hands, the Criminal actions of the creep
      Cummings, the 2nd home visits of Jenrick, the 3 Tory MSP’s going hill walking together
      and Bojo’s own father travelling To Greece to further grease his hands are all to be forgotten?

      The people of Scotland do not see themselves as a superior race as has been
      Bred into the English public.
      There were constant stories of street and park parties in England as they follow the above
      Examples of their leaders.
      The first day of English Pubs opening had drunks standing shoulder to shoulder in packed streets.
      Rest assured the Covid Virus quenched it’s thirst among them and it’s deadly hangover awaits the Dawn.

      The Scottish NHS has been maintained as best as the SNP’s budget cuts would allow while
      England’s was dying a death of a thousand cuts as it was being prepared to be sold.

      Scots and English are very different people!
      A prime example is Scotland’s 65 years and counting refusal to
      Vote for corrupt Tory Governments while the English favour their
      Enchanting song of Empire and greatness.

      Just as with health in general and Covid in particular Scotland out performs England
      We shall do more as an independent sovereign nation and continue to widen the gap.

    247. bipod says:

      Nearly 900 new excess cancer deaths at home (over the previous five years).

      https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/lockdown-linked-increase-almost-900-22341548

      Will the dithering nicola fanclub continue to pretend that cancer services have not been effected by the anti scientific lockdown.

    248. Col.Blimp IV says:

      jfngw

      Thanks for putting the link up in the first place, I had spent ages with a pencil, paper and calculator dividing five figure numbers by 2,3,4,5 etc and playing the results off against each other, and was no where near the end of the task.

    249. Capella says:

      @ Breeks – “brexit is charging on apace”

      AFAIK all Boris Johnston has to do on BREXIT is nothing. And that is precisely what he is doing. They are planning for a no deal BREXIT so apart from vast customs sites in Kent, dishing out no tendering contracts to their pals – and Dominic Cummings will have app for that – it’s back to cricket, WWII nostalgia and Jackie Charlton winning the World Cup in 1966.

    250. jfngw says:

      If this quote from NS is true then I don’t believe there is any intention of going for independence soon.

      https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1282241839278567424

    251. Ron Maclean says:

      Playing a blinder?

      Sturgeon’s got a cultured back foot but she goes missing in the big games. If she’s not careful she’ll lose the dressing room.

      Where are the Cherries, the MacNeils and the McElenys?

    252. schrodingers cat says:

      Ron Maclean says:
      Playing a blinder?
      If she’s not careful she’ll lose the dressing room.
      —————-
      that’ll be why her popularity has never been greater??

    253. jfngw says:

      Col.Blimp IV

      You can spend forever working out hypotheticals, the more complex you make it the more confusing it becomes.

      The simple outlook I have is a list party can takes seats in regions where the SNP take all the constituency seats. In regions where they don’t it is more likely they will take SNP & Green seats before they start making inroads into unionist seats. They start to need much more of the SNP list vote or hope unionists will switch to them in these regions.

      It’s a gamble but if the SNP prevaricate at the next election it could be one worth taking.

    254. robbo says:

      bipod says:
      12 July, 2020 at 12:13 pm
      Nearly 900 new excess cancer deaths at home (over the previous five years).

      ——————

      Nearly 65-70,000 new excess deaths due to an unknown virus at hospital/homes (over the previous five years in UK alone).

    255. mike cassidy says:

      Bipod 12.13

      Nobody here said cancer services had not been affected.

      All medical services were.

      You were the one who said ALL cancer services had stopped.

      And that was patently untrue.

      As you well knew.

    256. liz says:

      Yeah SC it’s a great joke, locked into an increasingly fascist WM.
      For all those thinking NS is playing a blinder.

      Also the positive messages as has been discussed, means the MSM are on her side for the moment.
      Something which I think she craves.

      archive.is/WbfbA

    257. susan says:

      I find NS insipid and uninspiring as FM. She’s lost her way.

    258. Dogbiscuit says:

      If the politicians in Holyrood are merely happy to be a devolved assembly they should remember that Holyrood will be closed down. The Assembly, Their complacency will be rewarded with unemployment. Some Holyrood Assembly politicians will make it into the House of Lords most wont.
      If it’s a continual hurl on the gravy train they’re after Independence is Scotland’s corrupt politicians only chance to maintain their careers in the long run.
      Given that Sturgeon already apes Johnson I fail to see the relevance of Holyrood these days.
      What’s the betting face muzzles will be mandatory on the streets next. We’re being trained to take unnecessary orders. We are being treated like prisoners. We are being herded toward mandatory rushed to the market covid vaccines.
      If we don’t take the vaccine we don’t get our lives back. Dont be speciously calling me an ‘anti vaxxer’. That’s a lazy conformists attack .I have no problem with genuinely voluntary vaccination. I just will not be compelled by Government to trade physical autonomy for the miserly return of some civil rights which will never be Rights again only privileges.
      The Government locks us up and wants us to trade autonomy for freedom they stole and will never hand back. Anyone thinking otherwise is of course entitled to remain naive.

    259. ahundredthidiot says:

      bipod

      Noble effort, but you’re banging your head against a brick wall. The damage is done. You’re not in control, the loonies are.

      Best take a stoic approach and just prepare yourself and your loved ones for what is about to come.

      A level of poverty which will be worse than it ever was in the 1970s and Eighties.

      No face mask is going to protect us from that.

    260. Dogbiscuit says:

      FM Marr interview.Who are the SNP shills bugging up next years Holyrood vote? Sturgeon clearly using virus to kick Independence off the pitch.
      I’m never voting for them. There’s no point.

    261. winifred mccartney says:

      No political party advocates for another – except of course if you are Kezia Dugdale who most certainly did – labour view is anyone but the snp even the tories.

    262. schrodingers cat says:

      i find the “nicola ate my hamster” brigade on here mildly amusing

      were you picked on by a big lassie when you were at school?

    263. schrodingers cat says:

      @dogbreath

      im never voting snp

      ———-
      well no change there then

    264. Ron Maclean says:

      @schrodingers cat 12:28pm

      ‘that’ll be why her popularity has never been greater??’

      To be honest the fans love her.

    265. Capella says:

      @ jfngw – I read the quote from the Marr programme and some of the replies to Craig’s tweet. Some of them say that it doesn’t mean what Craig says it means. Illustrates that you can frame things to suit your agenda IMO.

    266. Gary45% says:

      Oscar & The Yoons@10.55
      Whats the battle plan?
      Skipping over the border and challenging the enemy to Hokey Cokey around the handbags, whilst shouting “My goldfish is bigger than your goldfish”.
      Go fur it,ya scones.

    267. Dogbiscuit says:

      Right now because I refuse to be cowed into wearing a face mask ,which is a pointless piece of goonery , I can’t go to a shop someone else has to go got me but that’s not ideal. Wearing Government mandated face masks and living a Government mandated lifestyle is also not ideal.
      I feel the oppression perhaps more than the fools who have rationalised Tyranny. Perhaps they are shocked by the enormity of the fascist takeover in London and Edinburgh?
      So the two Governments are making it impossible for me to buy food and other essentials. I never thought that the people of this country would have to stand in queues to shop be ordered around and be subject to Local Government health checks. If we are named by a friend who tests positive for ‘covid’ we can be forcefully tested and or quarantined if the Government orders it.
      You do realise the Covid 2020 legislation in Westminster, passed without a question gives the State the power to do what they want to us for them public good’
      Some here have a depressingly shallow historical understanding.
      CBB speeding oot his nut again. Take few downers man.

    268. K1 says:

      The hamsters were gobbled up ages ago, she’s taken their FREEDOM!

    269. Dogbiscuit says:

      Half dead pussy drifting in and out of reality.

    270. schrodingers cat says:

      Ron Maclean says:

      To be honest the fans love her.
      ————
      nicola’s ratings are through the roof, her popularity is greater amongst the general population than those who vote snp

      that’s the point

    271. K1 says:

      Ah rest ma case.

    272. Dogbiscuit says:

      Keep laughing fools.

    273. ahundredthidiot says:

      Capella @ 12:15

      What do you think that statement means?

      (at least the penny appears to have dropped with jfngw)

      or maybe you think that there is not going to be an economic impact from COVID.

      We’ll be on our knees along with England – Scotlands Independence, were it to happen in my lifetime, would be nothing short of a miracle.

    274. Stoker says:

      @ bipod on 12 July, 2020 at 12:13 pm

      GTF with your direct link to The Dirty Redcoat you pretentious Commy twat. Isn’t that right, Podmore, Will Podmore?

      As we warned you under your previous guise, keep your nose out of Scotland’s affairs and stick to stacking and shelving books.

      Folks, wee Willie here is a staunch believer in the “freedom of Brexit” but not the freedom for Scotland. Aren’t you, Podmore?

    275. Dogbiscuit says:

      Schrodingers Cat where do you get this faith in Nicola Sturgeon?

    276. Beaker says:

      @mike cassidy says:
      12 July, 2020 at 12:31 pm
      Bipod 12.13
      “Nobody here said cancer services had not been affected.
      All medical services were.
      You were the one who said ALL cancer services had stopped.”

      I’ll back you up Mike. I know someone who has continued to receive treatment throughout the lockdown. They are in their 70s as well, so there has been no throwing the elderly on the scrapheap.

    277. schrodingers cat says:

      @dogbreath

      the life of a unionist troll on wings is a short lived experience

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THSY7-CxKnQ

      snigger

    278. Dogbiscuit says:

      K1 you’re an inhuman bastard.

    279. robbo says:

      the dug

      Only vaccine you need is, as i said before is readily available at the vets when the poor souls are better out of their misery.No need to wait on the covid one.

      £100+ Am no paying but,ask for a crowdfund-er.

    280. ahundredthidiot says:

      No Leader should be focusing 100% on anything – that is quite literally the very definition of bad leadership.

      NS will be focusing ‘100% on the coronavirus crisis AND the economic legacy from the crisis’.

      and some people still cant see the wood for the trees.

    281. Dogbiscuit says:

      I’m not a Unionist sadly .If only I had something to believe in but current SNP leadership are not working for us. Fool yourself into believing it’s all part of Sturgeons grand plan to get the public onside for Independence.No .Im not buying that .It seems quite the conspiracy theory Sturgeons ‘grand plan’ . It grows arms and legs by the year.
      She has been consistently blindsided by events predicted by Stu Campbell on these pages .
      Most of us saw the shit heading our way except Sturgeon it seems. In some respects she has reminded me of a bunkered Fuhrer moving imaginary armies across the map .
      Speaking of which I wonder how Oscars getting on with his raid into England .Bring us back some sheep will you please

    282. Dogbiscuit says:

      Actually the bunkered Fuhrer analogy is more appropriate for the SNP shills on here.

    283. Joe says:

      @Schrodingers cat
      What is amusing is your impulsive need to defend Sturgeon to the hilt at every negative comment.
      @Dogbiscuit & Bipod
      Ive made my peace with the fact Scots are now among the most clueless and spineless people on Earth. If Scots keep their personal liberties it will be due to other stronger, more free minded peoples.

    284. Dogbiscuit says:

      100% focus? Is the FM obtuse? Can she not ‘multi task’ ?
      You’re being fooled by her.

    285. Dogbiscuit says:

      Joe I’m no good at posting links but may I refer you to the speech delivered by Judge Andrew Napolitano on 4th July New York .A powerful price of oratory spoken it seems from the heart. The implications are profound. If only that spirit existed in Scotland.
      We’ll get told to fuck off to the States by the faithful.

    286. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo being an asshole again You’re clearly never interested in matters of freedom and democracy’s.You just want to have a sham debate while you’re being turkied up by the Government.
      Do you enjoy your soviet style curtailed life standing in bread queues needing permission to leave your house? You silly moronic man.

    287. robbo says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      12 July, 2020 at 1:28 pm

      The first priority of any political government leader is “to protect the people” always.

    288. Dogbiscuit says:

      Schrodingers Cat from whence does the font of faith spill forth for your goddess Sturgeon?

    289. Liz g says:

      OH NO K1…you’ve been declared non humam.
      Just change yer name tae K9 and confuse the shit oot the whiney little bitch 🙂

    290. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo you robotic Government bastard shill repeating claptrap.

    291. Dogbiscuit says:

      That Liz G coming too again?

    292. defo says:

      No shades of grey SC et adversaries?

      NS is definitely advancing our cause through her, and her government’s generally excellent performance over the piece. Smooching the soft No’s.

      And then, the many perceived grievances.
      Chiefly, the failure to save England from itself, the Duke of York tendencies, over centralising the party & letting the sleekit bastards in, no apparent appetite for anything other than the Sec.30 plan, poorly thought through legislation e.g. corroboration…

      All that I can live with, but I’m not having the treatment of Eck. Any of it.

    293. Col.Blimp IV says:

      jfngw : at 12:29 pm

      The way I see it is if the SNP do not stand in the list.

      The road is clear for 1,2,3 or 4 pro independence Parties to compete for at least as many votes as the 3 or 4 Unionist Parties, without the handicap of having their vote halved /quartered because of MSP’s being elected FPTP.

      A possible tally of 34+ and at the very least 24 MSP’s against the current count of 4 SNP and 6 Green List MSP’s.

      If the Yoons were to increase their FPTP Numbers – They would loose an equal number from the list.

      And the Greens would have the headache of how far up the flagpole to hoist their Saltire.

      Ideally it would be more straight forward though not necessary, If all concerned were to incorporate a YES Banner or similar in their Logo.

    294. McDuff says:

      Ahundredthidiot
      Nicola Sturgeon is giving time to woke and other things out with covid19 but nothing to independence.
      So tell me what % has she given since ’14?

    295. ahundredthidiot says:

      robbo @ 13:51

      A little bit naive, but your entitled to your view.

      Trouble is, in my opinion, the exact opposite is happening and only when people in their droves are losing jobs and homes while their kids go hungry, will people look back and say ‘what the fuck were we thinking?’

      I don’t subscribe to what I regard as mass hysteria. I believe in appropriate and proportionate responses to crisis and emergencies. This is not what we are observing.

      The price we pay will far outweigh the cost of the virus.

      It’s boy scout time – be prepared – the future is not rosy.

    296. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      I least I don’t hang about cyberspace slagging off those who are trying to help the cause. Talking of which, I can’t remember you ever offering anything construction or helpful. If all you’ve got is snide ignorance, why not find someone else to share it with, as there’s a pile of work to do and I’ve no time for numpties.

      Legal Theory, Volume 15, Issue 2, June 2009 , pp. 149-172
      THE SUBSTANTIVE PRINCIPLE OF EQUAL TREATMENT

      https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/legal-theory/article/substantive-principle-of-equal-treatment/DC4246CF34A98E859024B7867758A4CD

    297. ahundredthidiot says:

      McDuff @ 14:21

      what % you ask……well, I think considerable effort has been put into waving the carrot you’ll never get to taste.

    298. callmedave says:

      Coronavirus: Mathon farm workers isolating after 73 cases

      http://archive.vn/dqtoJ

      PS:
      This story headed UK COVID… but really it’s not:
      ==============================================================
      UK COVID-19 HEALTHCARE STAFF DEATHS AMONG WORLD’S HIGHEST

      It is among the countries to have recorded the highest number of health and social care worker deaths during the coronavirus crisis, according to Amnesty International.

      The human rights organisation said at least 540 frontline staff have died after contracting the virus in England and Wales – second only to Russia, which has recorded 545 deaths.
      =================================================================

    299. robbo says:

      Why is this hate allowed to continue in NI ? Guaranteed if it were Catholics building bonfires and burning the ‘UJ’ and pics of ‘Lizzie’ and ‘kill all prods’.

      It’s certain, bet your house on it being stopped.

      https://twitter.com/SuzyJourno/status/1282210663893479425

    300. jfngw says:

      @Capella

      Possibly correct, I don’t watch Marr out of the principle I think he isn’t very good, and i don’t really want to watch politics on a Sunday morning.

      @Col.Blimp IV

      The SNP not standing in list seats isn’t going to happen for a number of reasons, first is credibility, second is they would be portrayed as the party trying to manipulate the Holyrood parliament.

      Anyone believing winning independence is going to be as easy as fielding some list candidates in another party are just fooling themselves, Westminster are going to play dirty. You need to get in a war of attrition mode, if you are not up for it you might as well give in now.

    301. liz says:

      For those saying people heard different things said at the Marr interview, let me give you Paul Simon, The Boxer: note the last 2 lines.

      I am just a poor boy
      Though my story’s seldom told
      I have squandered my resistance
      For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
      All lies and jests
      Still a man hears what he wants to hear
      And disregards the rest

    302. jfngw says:

      It looks like George ‘Wherever I lay my hat, that’s my home’ Galloway is making the move to become the English Nationalist movement in Scotland. He has issued his call to arms, he wants Carlaw, Leonard and Rennie to be his first lieutenants.

      No mention for Davidson, maybe he wants to be her cat. Heard rumours he calls her Mrs Slocombe.

    303. Dogbiscuit says:

      ‘Westminster’s reputational cost will be Nicolas’ because she is in lockstep with them.
      With Sturgeon in charge your words on Independence are as dust.

    304. Dogbiscuit says:

      Liz. Paul Simons work. Such a profound observation for a young man.

    305. Beaker says:

      @Col.Blimp IV says:
      12 July, 2020 at 2:02 pm
      “And the Greens would have the headache of how far up the flagpole to hoist their Saltire.”

      I’d prefer the Greens to bugger off. I am in favour – in principle – of a few of their policies, but many of these involve taxing the fuck out of everything before banning it.

      I don’t think they give a shit about independence. Like the nutters in the SNP, they are hanging on to the tails of the party most likely to remain in power. A bit like the Lib Dems really.

    306. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Does someone have a transcript, or link to footage of NS on Marr, saying what Craig Murray is claiming she said?

      It’s got to the point where indy supporters are accusing one another of peddling ‘fake news’ within hours of original material being broadcast.

      FFS, let’s nail this one – is indy ‘on hold’ until Covid (and the economic fallout) is sorted, or not.

      Can’t be that fuckin difficult to answer.

      https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/1282241839278567424

    307. Capella says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood – I haven’t heard the clip but there’s no reason to suppose Craig isn’t reporting accurately what was said. The difference lies in the interpretation, as always.

      You could argue the best way to solve the economic legacy of covid is independence in Europe.

    308. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      12 minute vid

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy_Pmd43cBs

    309. jfngw says:

      @ian brotherhood

      Here it is on youtube (about 42 min in), not listened yet. As there is disagreement it could be down to how a senence is interpreted.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLy7EuauwS0

    310. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan and jfngw –

      Thanks both.

      I can see why there is disagreement over what she meant.

    311. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Are you the guy that was allegedly accused of taking the bucket of money home with the guy Ronnie after all the Rallies in the run up to indyRef1?”

      This sort of groundless defamation is not acceptable here. Banned.

    312. liz says:

      I don’t see any contradiction.
      This is NS always, lawyer speak.
      I would like to see independence, yadda, yadda yadda.

      She’s not just an ordinary punter, she is supposedly front and centre of the indy movement. only the politicians can put in place the way to achieve that.

      PS we are NOT in the middle of a crisis, we are at the end of it and why FFS can’t she fucking delegate.
      I listened to that short clip but in all honesty I cannot bear listening to her waffling BS anymore

    313. Dan says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Nae bother, but it’s always worth remembering these are politicians we are discussing… Therefore I’ve found the best policy is to not argue over the words they say (coz their words are generally as slippery as a well oiled eel on an ice rink), but rather argue over what they actually do.

      Actions speak louder than words – Scotland won’t be take out of the EU against its will.*

      *Anybody seen where my EU Citizenship went?

      Talking the talk needs backed up by walking the walk – It is agreed that nothing in this report prevents Scotland becoming an independent country in the future should the people of Scotland so choose.*

      *Except not having a Section 30, Covid etc etc…

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-right-choose-putting-scotlands-future-scotlands-hands/pages/3/

    314. Breeks says:

      jfngw says:
      12 July, 2020 at 3:09 pm
      @Capella

      Possibly correct, I don’t watch Marr out of the principle I think he isn’t very good, and i don’t really want to watch politics on a Sunday morning.

      I don’t rate him at all either, but then, I don’t think there’s a worthwhile commentary worth watching anywhere, but it’s still useful to gauge what the media’s current agenda is.


      @Col.Blimp IV

      The SNP not standing in list seats isn’t going to happen for a number of reasons, first is credibility, second is they would be portrayed as the party trying to manipulate the Holyrood parliament.

      The SNP’s big fear about List Seats isn’t (I suspect) genuine hostility to a List Party, but the fact list seats are designed to work like the handicap in horse racing; the stronger and more dominant your horse is, the bigger the handicap it’s given to keep the race competitive. In the DeHont system, you don’t handicap the strong Political parties but you give the weak, uncompetitive ones “easy” list seats so their weaker voices can be heard and the minority opinions aren’t swept away.

      I totally get the numbers thing, because yes, the Unionist parties currently do benefit from the race handicap which pads out their representation specifically because the SNP is so dominant.

      In my humble opinion, the reason the SNP is so jittery about a List Party is because the SNP knows the strategy it is using is alienating a lot of disgruntled Indy supporters, and the SNP might already have earned itself another doze of the lash similar to 2017 GE when they lost 500k votes. If the SNP does NOT command an emphatic number of seats in a Holyrood election, then the equilibrium of the list seats will see them getting list seats proportional to the scale of the electoral disaster. The worse they do, the more they get, the better they do, the fewer.

      In short, it only becomes the comfy “risk-free” scramble for List Seats between the Unionists and the ISP, IF the SNP remains a dominant force in overall command of the house. A bad day at the polls, and the SNP will be mud wrestling for Lists Seats like the rest.

      The SNP can afford to treat it’s supporters with contempt when there’s nowhere else they can go, but it’s a different ballgame when when the support has a choice in who to support. Hell hath no fury like an electorate scorned.

      NONE of this will save our skins from the dangerous precedent of unconstitutional Colonial subjugation, involuntary removal from Europe, and seeing Scotland’s “government” effectively capitulate before the colonial rule of Westminster. By the elections of next year, it will likely be impossible for Scotland’s farm produce to be sold in Europe because UK regulations will have already diverged, and that’s just the tip of the shite-berg.

      Listen up Scotland. For the millionth time. We need an EMERGENCY Constitutional Backstop, a legal interdiction, pitting the Sovereign Constitutional will of Scotland against Brexit. Constitutionally, the Union cannot survive it. It is untenable. Game Over, Scotland win. Northern Ireland did it, but we left Scotland‘s case to a bunch of amateurs. Leaving the fight to 2021 might well suit those same amateurs, but understand, it is TOO LATE.

    315. Capella says:

      @ Rev Stu – thx – appreciated.

    316. Gregory Beekman says:

      Err…

      …yes, we are in the middle of a crisis!

    317. CameronB Brodie says:

      Does the FM actually support the rule-of-law, or is she content to abide under the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty, which is incompatible with international human rights law, and is being abused so as to remove Scotland further from international law and order?

      Charting the Equality Agenda
      A Coherent Framework
      for Equality Strategies
      in Ireland North and South

      https://www.ihrec.ie/download/pdf/charting_the_equality_agenda.pdf

    318. ahundredthidiot says:

      Gregory Beekman

      I believe that you believe that.

      Many of us are entitled to a different opinion.

      unless you are talking about a massive economic crash? – in that case, we aren’t yet at the beginning. and it wont be a crisis, it will be an absolute disaster.

    319. schrodingers cat says:

      what mechanism exists to bring forward the holyrood election?

      stu, i noticed before the ge2019 the polls had snp support at 42%, they got 45%. in 2016, the polls in the final week were at 49%, they got 46.5%

      all these results are within the 3% accuracy of polling data, but they under estimate or over estimate. is this due to the way the polls are weighted? and could the present 55% polling for the snp also be at the top end due to new weighting techniques?

    320. K1 says:

      Nothing we all didn’t already know, but good to see it all laid bare what the post Brexit landscape looks like for Scotland, they aim to destroy our way of life.

      ‘Boris Johnson has been accused of planning an “emasculation” of the devolution settlement, with senior officials and politicians warning that plans for a post-Brexit UK-wide internal market will put Scotland and Wales on a collision course with Westminster.

      As support for Scottish independence shows a sustained polling lead and the Welsh parliament prepares for a debate on Wednesday about holding an independence referendum, the UK government has been accused of bringing a “statutory fist crashing down” as it attempts to regulate policy and standards across the four nations.

      Sources voiced concerns about a more aggressive approach towards devolution from a new generation of Conservative politicians. Some observers believe coronavirus has brought home the true extent of the devolved parliaments’ ability to diverge from London. Health is a devolved matter, and the four countries of the UK have reached contrasting decisions and timelines for imposing and easing lockdown measures.

      The Welsh government in particular has profound concerns about a lack of communication with the UK government. Its first minister, Mark Drakeford, has not spoken to Johnson since 28 May, which was also the last contact Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish first minister, had with the PM.

      Drakeford said last week: “If you are minister for the union [the title Johnson used when he became prime minister], speaking to the component parts of the union seems to me a sensible way of discharging those responsibilities.”

      Immediate concerns surround proposals to legislate for a post-Brexit UK internal market, which are expected to be published before the Commons recess this month and are believed to include two elements that could undermine the powers of devolved parliaments.

      First is a plan for an unelected oversight body that would hold any new devolved bills to a “market impact test”, which the Scottish government believes would have jeopardised Scotland-only initiatives such as free university tuition, minimum unit pricing for alcohol or the introduction of a smoking ban before the rest of the UK.

      Second is the proposal for a “mutual recognition regime” requiring regulatory standards in one part of the UK to be automatically accepted in others. Jeremy Miles, the Welsh counsel general and minister for European transition, said this would “drive a coach and horses through the capacity of individual governments in different parts of the UK to deliver policy objectives in their economies”.

      In practice this could leave them unable to reject UK government decisions on, for example, chlorinated chicken or genetically modified (GM) organisms, he said, adding: “If the UK government does what it tends to do, which is to deregulate, it will create intolerable pressures on the UK in terms of internal market.”

      A senior member of the Northern Irish assembly suggested that Michael Gove, who this month was appointed by Johnson to head up a cabinet sub-committee on the union alongside Rishi Sunak, is trying to reassert his government’s power over the devolved administrations.

      Michael Russell, Scotland’s Brexit minister, described “an inbuilt hostility to devolution” and said: “This group don’t believe, in the era of Brexit, that they should be sharing power with anyone. Some of them are senior ministers. They certainly don’t believe that there is any right for the Scottish parliament, or Welsh assembly, to operate.”

      Sources in all three devolved governments describe varying degrees of frustration at the lack of consultation or clarity, although the Brexit withdrawal agreement’s Northern Ireland protocol means exceptional rules will be in place from January, which Johnson initially tried to dismiss, claiming there would be no checks on goods entering the region.

      While Miles insisted the Welsh government “want[s] the union to work”, he said any mutual recognition scheme “needs to be agreed between the four governments, not imposed by one, and it needs to be flexible and nimble, not a statutory fist crashing down across the UK.”

      Proposals to enshrine mutual recognition in law would “create a huge constitutional fight”, he said. “In essence it emasculates the devolution settlement. That’s not going to be tolerated.”

      The Welsh and Scottish governments have written to Gove setting out these concerns. Russell said his letter made it clear that “we’re not going along with it. If it’s a voluntary code we won’t observe it, if it’s legislation we’ll challenge it every inch of the way”.

      A UK government spokesperson said: “We continue to seek a shared approach to the UK internal market with the devolved administrations. Unfortunately, however, the Scottish government voluntarily withdrew from this piece of work over a year ago. We will continue to engage with all three devolved administrations on how best we can bring people together and protect businesses throughout the UK.”

      http://archive.is/v1reM

    321. Mialuci says:

      If you believe you have any rights, then try going to a sheriff court without a jury, If you like complaining just for the sake of it, then I will accept your complaint
      Please put your name and address and the subject of your complaint with a few words about what it concerns on the back of a £20 note put it in an envelope and sent it to

      D B Trotter
      Nelson Mandela House
      Whitechapel
      London

      PS, we will get back to you as soon as possible
      we are hoping to go on holiday to Las Vegas
      in the next couple of months, so send your
      complaints in as soon as you can please

    322. callmedave says:

      BBC release official figs for corona today:

      Scotland………today…….00………Total….2490….BBC
      Wales…………today…….00………Total….1541….BBC
      N. Ireland…….today…….00………Total…..554….BBC
      England……….today……*15………Total…no data..SUN
      =========================================================
      UK……………today…….21………Total….44819…BBC

    323. CameronB Brodie says:

      Given the FM’s timid response to the unconstitutional nature of Brexit, one is left wondering if she actually believes Scots are entitled to constitutional justice and human rights. IMHO, she needs to stop thinking politically and start thinking legally.

      That means thinking outwith the legal pseudo-science of British constitutional convention and tradition, as this is what is being abused to further separate Scotland from international law and order, and at a particularly dangerous period in history.

      One of the simplest thing one can do to improve one’s biological security and chances of a health life, is to NEVER trust a Tory. Another is to acknowledge the anti-democratic nature of contemporary British constitutionalism.

      Full text.

      Endemic. 2016 Feb 25 : 221–242.
      Thinking like a Virus: Contagion, Postmodernist Epistemology, and the Ethics of Belief

      Abstract
      This chapter explores how postmodernism and its rejection of grand narratives inform current epistemological theory, emerging from the study of contagion as a fluid and transgressive phenomenon.

      Donner proposes a drastic re-centering of epistemology around the notion of belief as well as the abandonment of truth and knowledge as possible objects of enquiry. By embracing the idea that the foundations of every belief cannot but themselves be the unjustified and unjustifiable products of an epistemic act, the result of an arbitrary cultural or individual decision, this chapter suggests a new approach to epistemology.

      Re-framing belief as akin to an insidious form of viral programming, lurking endemically in every belief and act, this new theory signals the invariably performative dimension of every belief and, ultimately, the necessary ethical responsibility revealed by applying epidemiological thinking to epistemological problems.

      Keywords:
      Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, Contagion Theory, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, Virtue Epistemology, Coherence Theory

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7119914/

    324. Dan says:

      Ach, we’re always in a crisis of some sort. Some crises can be averted by apparently keeping a 2m (that’s 6ft for the Brexiteers about to have stroke due to my use of the metric system 😉 ) distance between each other, wearing a mask, and washing yer mitts.
      Who remembers the great toilet roll shortage crisis earlier in the year?
      Ahh, another crisis looms for me, I’ve finished my beer, time to open another Corona coz if you don’t have one foot over the edge yer takin’ up too much room.

      Sparks – Existential Threat

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLxPIOxgkM0

    325. Robert Louis says:

      Breeks at 0443pm,

      I completely agree with your analysis. I also agree, that 2021 or later will be much, much too late. It is not just because i am keen on independence that I want action now, but because I and many others can see just what is quite clearly steamrollering its way to Scotland from London at high speed.

      Scotland’s constitutional rights need to be asserted, sooner, rather than later but definitely before December 31st 2020.

    326. defo says:

      Ooft!
      Safe to add paranoia into the diagnosis.
      Earlier results suggested a case of total brahmer. Sigma rising.

    327. twathater says:

      SC and supporters all over all posts , your insistence that you have (proof) been told by senior people that the GRA & HCB will not see the light of day , also that you have it on GOOD AUTHORITY from whoever that the 2021 election will be used as a plebiscite for indy

      In keeping with the site owners good advice not to listen to unamed sources or a big boay said it so it must be true , can you provide and reassure us disbelievers of your good faith in your assurances by providing names and proof of these suppliers of information , or is this just more SNP AND NICOLA political public broadcasting initiative support

    328. jfngw says:

      If serial loser George Galloway is being ordained as Lord Protector of the Union between Scotland and England, the only question is who the hell was the runner up, Murdo Fraser?

      Murdo Fraser, when he heard that Trump looked very orange and was in the Whitehouse, he immediately raced over to Craigmillar to meet him, another disappointment in a life of many.

    329. Colin Alexander says:

      Andrew Marr Show 12 July 2020:

      Transcript of part of the Marr / Sturgeon interview:

      Marr: So, it does sound as if, no more talk about the next referendum. Maybe for the rest of this year at least?

      Sturgeon: Look, as long as I need to be focusing on the Coronavirus crisis – and the economic legacy of that crisis- that is going to have my 100% focus.

      I haven’t changed my view on independence. I think Scotland would be much better off as an independent country. I want to see Scotland become an independent country. None of that has changed.

      But, I think the people across Scotland right now would expect me to have my entire focus on leading the country through the biggest crisis that any of us have ever experienced, and that is what I’m going to continue to do and if in the process of doing that, it’s not my intention, then people can see the benefits of autonomous decision making then, as I say, perhaps there’s a lesson there.

    330. susan says:

      Yup Robert Louis you’re right. Bad shit is coming our way and SG so far isn’t doing damn all about it.

    331. CameronB Brodie says:

      defo
      That you making a list of my vulnerabilities? Are you sure you’re not just a bit creepy?

      Epistemic Justice and Epistemic Participation
      https://eprints.utas.edu.au/24901/

    332. susan says:

      I agree @Twathater .

    333. CameronB Brodie says:

      sorry….perceived vulnerabilities.

      Constitutional Coalescence: Substantive Equality
      as a Principle of Fundamental Justice

      https://commentary.canlii.org/w/canlii/2011CanLIIDocs76.pdf

    334. Effijy says:

      About 200 key workers on a farm are isolating after 73 people tested positive for Covid-19.
      The cases have been found among the workforce of vegetable producers A S Green and Co, based in Mathon in Herefordshire.

      Due to the lack of or contrary information related to
      The Covid Virus from Bojo and his subservient Scientists
      I could never establish how long the Virus could live on paper.
      I’ve seen not at all. For 24 hours and 72 hours?

      If the 73 spud pickers above have been working on the crop while contaminated
      How long can the virus on such a food source?

      Could contaminated potatoes be in the supermarket the following day
      And could the spud peelers of Herefordshire now be contaminated.

    335. liz says:

      Exactly Colin, could, would like, 100% focus on Covid and the economic legacy – how else can we interprete 100% focus, other than nothing else on my radar.

      She acts like she’s a supporter and is waiting on someone else delivering.

    336. schrodingers cat says:

      you have it on GOOD AUTHORITY from whoever that the 2021 election will be used as a plebiscite for indy

      ————

      no i dont, i merely point out that now support for indy is consistently above 50%, for the 1st time, it has now become an option.

      whether nicola does this will depend on the polls nearer the time of the he

    337. CameronB Brodie says:

      “whether nicola does this will depend on the polls nearer the time of the he”

      And there is the source of our complex crises, deference to tradition and a lack of respect for the rule-of-law. As well the blind insistence that politics stands above the law, and that politics is capable of delivering justice.

      First Thoughts for a Phenomenology of the Commons
      http://wealthofthecommons.org/essay/first-thoughts-phenomenology-commons

    338. callmedave says:

      O/T

      Well done Mark Warren winner of Austrian Open Golf earlier today.

      Fellow Scots Syme and Howie both tied fourth.

      PS:

      Hows about the FM of Scotland and Wales instituting some health checks on the border as it now looks like the virus in England is still bubbling along in fairly high figures.

      Even for the outrage and the headlines it would cause and consternation value for Jackson Carcrash. 🙂

      I’m alright Gove still hanging on to the “wise common sense of the folk darn Sarf” trying to hold the line.

      But 5 might well get you 10 that Boris is going to press for face coverings if the numbers remain in the scores of people and these hot spots flair up.

      The other thing is no vaccine yet and winter is coming.

    339. schrodingers cat says:

      the idea to turn the holyrood election into a plebiscite has been discussed before, the difference now is that it becomes a real possibility when support for indy/snp is above 50%. in dec 2019 support for the snp was at 42%, and 45% in the ge. ergo, it wasnt really an option.

      but it is now, i put forward this proposal on my own, i speak for only myself, not the snp.

      but it is an actual option, if you disagree, feel free to put forward your own suggestions

    340. robbo says:

      Dogbiscuit says:
      12 July, 2020 at 1:50 pm
      Robbo being an asshole again You’re clearly never interested in matters of freedom and democracy’s.You just want to have a sham debate while you’re being turkied up by the Government.
      Do you enjoy your soviet style curtailed life standing in bread queues needing permission to leave your house? You silly moronic man.

      ——————-

      lol

      Never saw so much dribble in two wee para’s.

      I have my freedom.No guards at my door. I can go anywhere i like, not that i would want to go to some places. I’ve never been to Russia. I’ve never seen a bread queue here in i think 45 years or so.I need no one’s permission to leave my house, i was out today.There was no government secret agents hiding in the hedges.

      I maybe a wee bit silly sometimes and yes I’m a man, oh you got me!

    341. defo says:

      With the shops open, and the numbers looking increasingly good,what’s so wrong about bringing Indy back to the boil?
      Why would you have to see the economic impact, before lowering the lifeboats?
      It’s on the radar, shackled or free.

      The immediate national crisis is over, our NHS did a first rate job and isn’t looking like collapsing any time soon.

      Time to put our national interests first & foremost Nicola.

      Whatever the sector, or problem, Independence is the ultimate solution.

    342. Denise says:

      Not sure if anyone has debunked the Caesar!nnach thread but in case they haven’t. It’s nonsense they confuse the % of the SNP list with the % of the total list vote. To gain a seat from the LibDems in the North East ISP would need less than 7% of the vote.
      ISP are not intending to stand in the south of Scotland so there would be no loss of SNP list MSPs in the region.
      It takes no account of non voters (such as in 2017) who a Indy first party might motivate to vote or pro Indy Labour tribalists who won’t vote SNP.

    343. twathater says:

      @ SC 7.59pm I agree wholeheartedly with a plebicite election in May , like you I have been on this site for years and I agreed with that proposal when it was posited in the past but was unfortunately opposed and rubbished by many on the site at the time

      However no matter how good an idea it appears or how many people support it and would insist it is taken up the PROBLEM as always is the SNP will NOT do it so you can now concentrate on telling US how WE get THEM to listen to US and believe me I am not being insulting OR facetious

    344. Col.Blimp IV says:

      schrodingers cat says at 7:59 pm

      “…but it is an actual option, if you disagree, feel free to put forward your own suggestions”

      Far from disagreeing with you I would upgrade it from a possibility to an imperative.

      Then SNP has long approached elections employing “lend us your vote” tactics, to encourage tactical voting from voters not convinced about independence, that their Representative would be more likely to defeat the person or party that they liked least or that they would be standing up for local and Scottish interests rather than obediently ruberstamping or opposing the wishes of Westminster in compliance with the wishes of their London head office.

      And as anyone with their finger on the pulse will have noticed, an ever increasing number of genuine nationalists are running out of patience with the SNP and beginning to question whether their only commitment to independence is as a rouse to con the faithful out of their votes and money.

      I do not care whether this upcoming election is a plebiscite because the SNP declare it to be and assert that a majority for them will be all the authority they need to commence the dissolution of the Union.

      Or

      Because The SNP decline to contest the Regional lists in favour of non-partisan “Independence Movement” candidates.

      Or

      Ditto for Independece Supporting Parties.

      I would even stomach the SNP1 / Green2 option if both Parties made it clear that a combined majority = Independence.

      But unless the SNP acknowledge this election as the “Independence Election” we have all been waiting for, or pull an exceptionally big Rabbit out of their arse.

      I and many others will be forced to concede that the SNP have become – The TR@IT0R$ who Sold Out, the Patriot Game.

    345. Liz g says:

      Denise @ 8.44
      I don’t think it’s yet become clear to most that the ISP may not stand for “every” regional seat.
      Their focus as I understand it will be on seats the numbers indicate they could take from Unionist MSPs.

      They will have limited resources and need to concentrate on where they can win…
      A good example being the borders….the unionist vote is currently so strong for the constituency seat the SNP ( Joan McAlpine ) usually takes the list.
      As she’s pro Indy there’s nothing to gain towards the aims of fulfilling the ISPs agenda !

      The whole point is to rebalance Holyrood away from the 3 to 2, British/ Scottish divide.
      There are currently 3 London controlled party’s standing for Holyrood and 2 Scottish based party’s of any profile.

      There is no party of and from the Yes movement and as a group we’re huge, even SNP members can vote for their party and thanks to the list…still vote for their movement.

      As Wings himself has said…absent a more high profile and farther reaching party,thus a potentially more successful one…he’d endorse the ISP

    346. jfngw says:

      @Denise

      It’s not nonsense, a-lbanach actually describes it as a required swing from the SNP to the ISP. The weakness is in the website that was used, it only allows that type of adjustment, it is too simple if you want to model more complex outcomes.

      So yes it is around 7% of the total vote to take a NE seat (it looked like a Tory one that would go first), but you need to model who this 7% would come from. It could be the SNP, Greens and Labour, can’t see getting much change from Tory or libDem voters.

      In fact looking at the NE, targeting the Green vote along with the SNP would produce the best outcome, the Greens have 15k votes but no seats. Labour have 2 list seats and it may be harder to persuade their voters give up their MSP’s (depends on who they are I suppose).

    347. schrodingers cat says:

      @twathater
      However no matter how good an idea it appears or how many people support it and would insist it is taken up the PROBLEM as always is the SNP will NOT do it so you can now concentrate on telling US how WE get THEM to listen to US
      ————————–

      when in the past should the snp have done this? 2017? 2019?

      it is only in the last 10 days that we have had confirmation that indy/snp have a 50%+ majority

      in dec 2019 support in the polls was only 42%, 45% in the actual election. for that reason they chose to put indyref2 as the goal of the manifesto, not indy. and 45% and the majority of mps won that mandate,

      it would not have won us mandate for independence.

      however, we have now crossed that line, we have 50%+ support so it is now an option.

      thats why i am punting the idea of an independence plebiscite on sm and it is gaining traction. people in the snp will be reading this, pete wishart once said he read wos frequently, i dont know if he still does but others will

      they can count and do the arithmetic as well as you and i twathater.

      thats why our resident unionist sensible dave refusing to even answer my question was so telling. he knows that if wm says no, that will divide the unionists in scotland

    348. Col.Blimp IV says:

      twathater

      Everyone who has a direct line to Jacksons Entry is not an unthinking automaton, blind fool or fifth columnist.

      So they are well were that the natives are getting restless and are hatching plots all over the place, whether they are sufficiently convinced of their own omnipotence and will be prepared to weather the storm, I would not like to hazard a guess.

      I would suggest to everyone who thinks they have a stake in seeing Scotland Free – Sometime before 2093 to do whatever they can to put pressure on them.

      Branches and Constituencies can submit Resolutions, Refuse to select candidates who are not up to speed, Regional Associations can refuse to make up the List. Candidates can Refuse to allow their names to be put on the List. Individuals can send angry emails to all and sundry. Party Office bearers can be challenged on the grounds that they have proven themselves to be useless dead weight as far as the quest for independence is concerned. AOUB marches can become demonstrations of displeasure at the route the SNP Bosses are taking.

      The list is as long as the piece of paper you have to write it on.

    349. ElGordo says:

      “@Effijy says at 6:17 pm

      About 200 key workers on a farm are isolating after 73 people tested positive for Covid-19.
      The cases have been found among the workforce of vegetable producers A S Green and Co, based in Mathon in Herefordshire.

      How long can the virus on such a food source?

      Could contaminated potatoes be in the supermarket the following day”

      Yes they could. Greens in this case.
      Picked & packed (without masks) and in supermarkets 24-72 hours later.
      The pack building is temperature controlled to be less than 10c.
      From there passes through the customers/supermarket fresh warehouse which operates at 1c-8c (ideally 4c same as your fridge) and then onto refrigerated trucks and into the chilled cabinets in the supermarket operating ideally at 4c.

      The coronavirus optimum temperature (the temperature it is most active) is 4c.

      It can survive on plastic packaging for 3-7 days. (lancet)

      This farm supplies vegetables (mainly greens) to Tesco and M&S. (from their website).

      No destroy notices have been issued by the farm or the supermarkets.

    350. Effijy says:

      In just 6 days another million Covid cases have developed globally.

      This seems to be the recurring trend so from 13 Million cases today we
      Can anticipate a figure of 20 Million during August.

      If I wanted to come to the UK from an excluded nation, couldn’t I just follow
      Boris’ Dad’s sneaky trip to Greece by travelling to Bulgaria first.

      If I come from India could I not go to Spain and then to the UK?
      What if I have dual Nationality India and UK could I not bring in Covid.
      Are pilots tested at every airport, are baggage handlers, passport control officers?
      They all touch items we touch.

      Can you imagine foreigners seeing Boris advising you don’t need a mask but wearing one and Gove
      Saying common sense will protect you?

      That might explain why so many Tories caught the Virus with Bojo himself
      Showing the way and Gove’s daughter being tested while Doctors and Nurses could not.

    351. jfngw says:

      Is Covid the hill London BritNat parties want to die on. Watching them clamouring for a higher infection rate in Scotland would be amusing if it wasn’t so tragic. According to the Tory representative Ian Murray, restricting those with the virus coming to Scotland will do nothing for public health here.

      And we have this tearjerker from Oliver Mundell (there is something about that family), best read whilst playing ‘Land of hope and Glory’ in the background.

      ‘Nationalism at work. Spreading lies, whipping up fear and stoking division. We are one United Kingdom. It is not in our interest to pull up the drawbridge’

    352. Dan says:

      Confucius say… If you want as many folk as possible to drink in yer pub, don’t piss off yer customer base by starting to serve shite and piss flavoured drinks the punters don’t want, and then doubling down on stupidity by telling those punters they are dumb ass idiots for not liking shite and piss flavoured drinks.

      #FreeBusinessAdvice #RocketScienceForBeginners

    353. Effijy says:

      Thanks El Gordo.

      The fat one has come up with all the food facts but
      That sounds scary as hell the government and supermarket
      Don’t know these facts or don’t want to know?

      Genocide from the countryside courteously of Boris!

    354. ElGordo says:

      But not to worry, boiling the veg will kill the virus, freezing it will not. The contents are most likely ok.

      The biggest risk is from the packaging, cross contamination when handling packaging, paper is better than plastic.

      But you could get the contamination on packaging on any product via warehouse handling, supermarket packing or customers checking the ingredients or coughing. Best to disinfect/wipe the packaging once home or ideally dispose of / repackage. Fresh veg/meat/milk especially due to fast supply chain times.

    355. Dan says:

      Poland held the second round of voting in their Presidential Election today after the first round was held on 28th June.

      Campaigning and voting twice during a pandemic, who’d have thought such things were possible…

    356. Dogbiscuit says:

      El Gordo You’re doing a sterling job of fear mongering for miz Sturgeon

    357. Dogbiscuit says:

      Effigy actually believes Johnson had the virus apparently.

    358. Dogbiscuit says:

      Robbo finds a fresh faced doctor on line and hangs onto his every word .The doctor bullshits .Masks reduce your oxygen levels and reduce your humanity.
      Your links are propaganda.
      You’re a Government shill.
      The effects of the virus are exaggerated for political reasons.
      Jobs are being lost for political reasons.If people wake up to what’s going on on this planet there may be hell to pay. The people of Serbia have already stormed their parliament because the Government tried to ‘lock ‘ them up again.
      It’s a good job for Sturgeon most Jocks are daft and will believe anything.

    359. Dogbiscuit says:

      By the way ‘facemasks are now mandatory in public in Spain.

    360. Dogbiscuit says:

      El Gordo would you recommend Fullers Earth to clean off contamination? What about a Noddy suit and Gas mask? Maybe we should wear rubberised gas capes just in case.

    361. ElGordo says:

      @doggy Did you take the blue biscuit or the red biscuit?

    362. Dogbiscuit says:

      If food was contaminated with covid we would perhaps all be dead already.
      You SNP shills are just as hellish as Tories.Anyway it’s whiskey time .Stay crazy kids.

    363. ElGordo says:

      And you enjoy the rest of your evening on #Qanon

    364. schrodingers cat says:

      @dogbreath

      its called whisky up here in scotland

    365. Roberto says:

      It looks like Westminster has plans to strip Holyrood of even more powers.

      Before we know it we will be a powerless Talking shop.

      Why isn’t Nicola Sturgeon highlighting this to the nation?

    366. schrodingers cat says:

      happy 12th 🙂

      twitter.com/i/status/1282246322217791488

    367. Fireproofjim says:

      It’s Whisky Dogbiscuit, but I guess you don’t know that down in England’s green and pleasant land.

    368. Davie Oga says:

      As things stand. The SNP will not make this election a plebiscite on independence. I think it’s incredibly disingenuous for anyone to suggest that they will.

      They will campaign on standing up for Scotland and pressurising Westminster to agree a section 30 that they know will not be granted. A win and the focus will shift to the next Westminster election where Labour will say they won’t work with the SNP and The SNP will say that you can still vote for them if you want a Labour government and Labour will agree a section 30.

      The only hope for independence anytime soon is if the list party takes off with Brexit party or Macron type momentum. This will require Salmond and/or other high profile nationalists to stand. The media will be aware of the threat and they can be counted on to starve the list party of publicity. There will be no favours from the SNP.

      A 20 seat miracle haul of list seats will put the SNP under serious pressurre to deliver as the party of independence or they will go the way of the SDLP in Ireland.

      By then Scotland will be diverging from Europe and the The Scottish Parliament will be completely imasculated or abolished.

    369. Fireproofjim says:

      Tomorrow’s Financial Times headline says that the Tories will rush through legislation making Scotland and Wales comply with new U.K.-wide standards including food.

    370. North chiel says:

      Agree with “ Schrödinger’s cat says @1019 pm . “ . We were promised a referendum this year by our FM , albeit Public Health events has rightly & understandably taken precedence. However, the Britnat Westminster government have carried on with no Brexit extension and now plan to neuter the Holyrood Parliament with the “ powergrab” of returned powers from Brussels ( by the way what’s the point of a Holyrood Parliament with no unionist MSP’s when LONDON will retain all previously devolved powers repatriated from the EU . It really doesn’t matter if Holyrood is neutered , and MAKE NO MISTAKE Gove and Johnston fully intend to ensure this will happen). Thus , as the Westminster Tory Junta have made their intentions clear and no section 30 agreement will be forthcoming then our FM must “ bite the bullet “ and declare that the 2021 Holyrood election will become the defacto 2nd referendum . No if or buts , a CLEAR & UNEQUIVOCAL DECLARATION of INTENT . The SOVEREIGNTY of the People of Scotland must be UPHELD . The Scottish EU vote was 2 to 1 in favour of remain in 2016 . The 2014 referendum No vote was based on a mandate to REMAIN in the EU . It is imperative that our FM makes this declaration of intent preferably prior to Dec 31st and IF NECESSARY resign her government and HOLD the Defacto “ INDEPENDENCE Holyrood election before the end of the year . The days of “ bending the knee” to a “ Britnat Tory Westminster Junta is over and the Radio AD says “ Scotland it’s time” , and YES, FIRST MINISTER it’s TIME that these Westminster charlatans were PUT ON NOTICE . Enough is enough ! Time to GET TOUGH !

    371. ElGordo says:

      “incredibly disingenuous”

      “if the list party takes off with Brexit party or Macron type momentum”

      “will require Salmond and/or other high profile nationalists”

      “A 20 seat miracle haul of list seats”

      3/10 for going through the motions

    372. HYUFD says:

      Dan And looks like the Poles have re elected their version of Donald Trump, the populist social conservative Andrzej Duda, if the exit polls are correct
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53385021

    373. Liz g says:

      Whine,Whine,Whine says the whiney little bitch

    374. Ruglonian says:

      Just caught the end of the BBC Scotland programme Seven Days.
      Angela Haggerty was on as part of a panel. They were discussing ‘cancel culture’.

      She pontificated, with absolutely no awareness of her hypocrisy, about how she finds it disingenuous that folk claim to be for free speech but they don’t speak up for folk that they disagree with.

      Just like the current quality of debate here, I despair at what folk find to be an acceptable level of engagement – it’s so dumbed down and aggressive that it’s actually depressing!

    375. Davie Oga says:

      El Gordo

      Do you seriously think there is the possibility of the SNP standing on a dissolve the union ticket in 10 months time? The coalition of soft nationalists, devolutionists, pro European, anti Johnson unionists is going to provide a fruitful bounty of seats next year. Any dramatic push for independence will put that at risk. There is absolutely nothing that suggests that the current leadership is going to put that at risk for a 50/50 shot at glory.

      The ship is too big to make a rapid and the Captain is not for turning anyway.

    376. Liz g says:

      HYUFD @ 11.57
      The Poles may very well have… As is their right.
      England did the same….nae argument there
      But Scotland did not,the election of Johnston was by votes in the other half of the Kingdom.
      This needs addressing..any thoughts?
      ( Other than the one Country pish )

    377. call me dave says:

      Jings!

      2hrs of face masks discussion on radio 5 starting at 01:00
      thats in about 10 minutes.

      1st hour is for those who will never wear a mask.
      2nd hour is for those who support wearing a mask.

      Now’s your chance to phone in. 🙂

      Never met a ‘non-mask’ person in any shop since it became mandatory in Scotland in both small or large types.

      and so to bed!

    378. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Davie Oga

      Sure, Sure, that is the nightmare scenario, and certainly looks like that is the way the party Bosses want it.

      No reason to roll over and play dead, join the fight to force them to change tack – if nobody does, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

      We will all be Doomed … and deservedly so.

    379. ElGordo says:

      @Davie

      a fruitful bounty indeed, perhaps with lashings and lashings of ginger beer, if the lady is not for turning..

      Why do you care?

    380. Col.Blimp IV says:

      call me dave

      I’m sure Nicola refers to them as “face coverings” – Would a lone Ranger/Zorro type mask do?

    381. schrodingers cat says:

      Davie Oga says:
      12 July, 2020 at 11:48 pm
      As things stand. The SNP will not make this election a plebiscite on independence. I think it’s incredibly disingenuous for anyone to suggest that they will.
      ————–

      well, speaking to the other snp members on facebook(closed group for branch members) they enthusiastically support this idea. we are considering bringing a motion to conference so the issue can be aired. only caveat is the polling figures closer to the actual election.

      i can see no reason why other snp branches wont support this

    382. schrodingers cat says:

      The former First ­Minister resigned from the party in August 2018 amid allegations of sexual misconduct but vowed to apply to rejoin once he had an opportunity to clear his name.

      Mr Salmond was cleared in March of ­sexually assaulting nine women after a two-week trial at the High Court in Edinburgh.

      Now, under party rules the politician, whose conduct towards women colleagues was widely criticised despite his acquittal, can apply to rejoin next month.

      A new Scottish party – called Alliance For Independence – is to be launched within two weeks, with former SNP MSP Dave Thompson among its members, while a poll last week suggested more than a quarter of Scots would vote for a new pro-indy party led by the former First Minister.

      Some senior ­nationalists have backed the notion of a second party designed to win list MSPs and boost pro-independence numbers at Holyrood. However, the SNP urges supporters to give both votes to its candidates.

      Mr Salmond has refused to comment on his political future before a Holyrood inquiry into the Scottish Government’s botched handling of claims of sexual misconduct.

      SNP MSP Alex Neil said: “I’m sure his loyalties lie with the SNP. But I don’t know whether he wants to become active in formal politics again. But his opinion ­matters because there is no one more experienced than him in politics in Scotland.”

      Before joining the SNP, Mr Neil formed a breakaway Scottish Labour Party in 1976 with Jim Sillars. He said: “After my experience in the 1970s, I wouldn’t advise anyone to start a new party.

      “It took the SNP from 1934 to 2007 to get into government. It is a long haul and if your goal is independence, I’m sorry, we can’t wait 45 or 50 years. The best way to deliver it is through the SNP.”

      The Alliance For Independence party will launch within two weeks and campaign in next year’s Holyrood election. It will not challenge the SNP in constituency seats and only contest list seats. It is hoping to field up to 96 candidates.

      Mr Thompson, a member of its steering group, said: “We haven’t made any formal approaches to anyone like Alex. After we launch, anyone is welcome to join us.”

      Last week a Panelbase poll for website Wings Over Scotland showed more than a quarter of Scottish voters would either definitely or probably vote for a new pro-independence party led by Alex Salmond.

      The idea of a separate pro-indy party standing in next year’s Holyrood election was subsequently backed by Kenny MacAskill, who was justice secretary in Mr Salmond’s government.

      Mr Salmond’s ­spokesperson said the former First Minister would not comment until after he had given evidence to the parliamentary committee.

      The SNP declined to comment.

    383. North chiel says:

      One things for certain . Prime ministers and First Ministers have LIMITED shelf lives . Our present FM is currently personally “riding high in the polls “ a reflection and recognition by the people of Scotland for her outstanding hard work over the past three months in dealing with this Health emergency and her outstanding level of clear & conscise communications with the Scottish Public ( in sharp contrast to “ the ongoing Downing st shambles”) . If she was to take a “ principalled stand “ against the Westminster Tory government over the “ power grap” and Brexit , and RESIGN her government then I am certain that the people of Scotland would back her Overwhelmingly in a stand off against Boris Johnston ‘s Westminster Tories , if she declared that the subsequent Holyrood Election would be fought on a single issue mandate ONLY . A straight Independence ticket . A resignation issue over Brexit would galvanise her support and she would lead with the moral high ground and Scottish sovereignty over Brexit . I am convinced that the People of Scotland would rally to her , and vote to end the Union overwhelmingly. Come on FM you can do it . “ Prove that the playmaker can also put the ball in the net” . Give us the Hamden roar again .

    384. Davie Oga says:

      SC

      Well thats a positive sign provided that it’s still possible to enact policy from branch level up.

      EL Gordo

      Why do I care?

      That’s a hard question to answer these days.

    385. iain mhor says:

      @North Chiel 1:44am
      Yer damnably close with yer observation.
      Excepting that Alex’s star is on the wane and so surely will be Nichola’s at some point – like Alex it may be abrubt.
      Laudable though each may be in their memory (Do we forget the champions of yore? They seldom are mentioned btl) Independence never sleeps – if it’s not delivered on one watch…next.
      I still recall the flying flags…but next*

      *If yer partial to a metaphor.

    386. twathater says:

      @ North Cheil 1.44am Whats not to like , if only , and if you are riding at 80% of satisfaction from the public as Capella says why not go for it , shake WM to its roots , as a recent poll of tory voters found out something like 50% of them want rid of us whining england subsidised jocks

    387. Ruglonian says:

      Why are folk even considering that the FM would make any kind of bold move?

      Reality check: she’s cautious to the point of cowardice!

      “when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time”

    388. Capella says:

      @ twathater – correction – I was quoting a poll saying NS was 60+ while BJ was 39-. I forget which poll but might have been John Curtice.

    389. ahundredthidiot says:

      Wearing face masks in shops isn’t enough.

      People should be made to wear them in public – all the time – to keep us all safe.

      Next week, when the vax comes, it should be made mandatory or passports and driving licences should be revoked.

      Those still refusing should be directed to self isolate under house arrest.

      Those breaking house arrest should be re-homed in a secure accommodation – with inspiring words above the door to remind them of their social responsibility to everyones safety.

      Now – let’s all stand together and raise our right arms at 45 degrees, fingers extended and together – AND REPEAT AFTER ME!

    390. Capella says:

      Barrhead Boy has an excellent post on tbe launch of the ISP. From 16th June and maybe already posted here, if so apos.

      https://www.barrheadboy.com/3420-2/

      SC has posted an article? On the launch of an Alliance party. Anyone have more detail? Would a third Independence party dilute the vote?

    391. Roberto says:

      Wearing a mask actually put me off going shopping.

      I just find them too uncomfortable, so just decided not to go shopping.

      So the idea that masks get you back out shopping is not working.

    392. Dan says:

      More on the subject of voting in Scottish Parliament Elections from Jeggit.

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2020/07/13/you-have-two-votes/

    393. Denise says:

      North Chiel

      I think that’s what Boris etc are so relaxed about poll numbers etc. Their plan is to neuter possibly even close Holyrood. Remember when Maggie closed down the GLC? It is that plan on a big scale. They know that independence is inevitable if Holyrood remains, Scotland with a parliament is a nation and no nation will continue to be ruled by the country next door indefinitely. The only hope for unionism is to close the parliament and reintegrate Scotland into the British nation state. They will do this with the full support of the Scottish unionists. And Nicola and the rest of the SNP will be as effective at resisting as they’ve been at preventing Scotland being dragged out of the eu against our will. Personally I think the Brits have the goods on Nicola or maybe she is just a totally useless strategist. Our hope is a leader emerges, I hope Alex Salmond is looking at the situation and thinking that he needs to step in.

    394. schrodingers cat says:

      @capella

      it was a sunday post article

    395. Denise says:

      Regarding the Alliance they haven’t registered with the EC so they are speculative at the moment. They have t even applied yet.
      Obviously their can’t be multiple list parties as that will mean confusion for voters. People need to park their egos, ISP is registered have members and are setting up branches why aren’t the Alliance joining with them?

    396. Ottomanboi says:

      Ahundredthidiot 07:20
      Masks…mean so many things to so many people, lifesaver, fetish, disguise, cool fashion, symbol of political power, defence against the dark arts, just weird…but not much use against you know what.
      Like the one about the guy buying a mask from his local convenience store then going round to hold up the shop…

    397. McDuff says:

      Northchiel 1.44
      I agree absolutely and I believe that tactic would work.
      The problem is you would be asking Sturgeon to do something radical and she never has and never will especially if it might secure indy.

    398. Being out the EU,

      does that mean that Scottish Gov can use state aid in helping Scottish companies to win business contracts,

      Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union

      (ex Article 87 TEC)

      1. Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.

    399. Gary45% says:

      Yoons favourite word seems to be shill.
      That may explain they are “not the full shill-in”
      I’ll get ma bunnet.

    400. Breeks says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      13 July, 2020 at 8:48 am
      Being out the EU,

      does that mean that Scottish Gov can use state aid in helping Scottish companies to win business contracts…

      I think that’s a yes, but it’s an example of divergence / deregulation from the EU, and you will likely lose out more than you gain. Although, we have probably lost access and opportunity already, and all we’ve probably done is limit our access to EU tenders and leave our industry needing artificial subsidy just to survive, fighting for scraps in a less regulated dog-eat-dog market.

    401. Papko says:


      The problem is you would be asking Sturgeon to do something radical and she never has and never will especially if it might secure indy.”

      Good point Macduff

      It wasn’t the long term unemployed that started working for the first time in 20 years to fight the virus.

      It was the retired nurse who went back to the front line.

      leopards don’t change their spots.

    402. Rm says:

      Time for the Scottish Government to stand up and go all out to stay in Europe, this virus episode is coming to an end and it’s getting clearer every day what a mess Scottish Buisness is going to be in shackled to england, they have to go full out now and start demanding to end the union and stay in Europe, if we don’t it’s going to be devastating for our young people’s future. There must be a way to get all Scottish Buisness men to start demanding that we stay in Europe.

    403. Dan says:

      It’s quite remarkable looking round “The Pro-Indy Defenders of the Status Quo” as they attempt to debunk the PIRLP concept and demand folk continue to blindly vote for SNP and Greens, whilst seemingly in complete denial or unable to comprehend as to why folk are having such a hard problem doing so, and are therefore looking at other options. #AstutenessFail #FingerNotOnPulse #NatureAbhorsAVacuum

      I didn’t leave the SNP, the SNP left me when they decided to misplace our EU Citizenship, and push highly divisive policies the majority of the country doesn’t want, at a time when there are far greater issues to be dealt with.
      Engaging in unethical internal party shit like sitting on allegations of a serious sexual nature for personal political leverage for years rather than reporting them to the relevant authorities at the time was the kicker for me.

      I kindly ask that our politicians wise up and get with the programme, or get in the fuckin sea.

    404. Breeks says:

      Ruglonian says:
      13 July, 2020 at 2:22 am
      Why are folk even considering that the FM would make any kind of bold move?

      Reality check: she’s cautious to the point of cowardice!..

      Did anybody consider the Northern Irish Backstop to be a ‘bold’ move? The Irish pointed to the legality of the Good Friday Agreement and required the UK to respect the rule of law.

      Scotland could have, and should have, done exactly the same with a Scottish Backstop citing the Nation’s sovereign Constitution, and I stress, the Nation’s Constitution, not the colonial Scotland Act.

    405. Effijy says:

      Dog biscuit appears to be more of a “Hasn’t a Scooby Doo”
      A Pedigree Chump.

      13,051,000 Covid cases, 1,000,000 new cases every week, hundreds of thousands dead
      and this holocaust denier is advising that you should take no precautions so that you’ll catch it?

      You always come running back with a stick in your mouth like a Red Setter so tell me if you would accept All Medical advice when there are 20 Million cases and 1 million deaths or as you choke to
      Death in intensive care will you still think it’s just a prank?

    406. Cummings and his chimps are going to rip up what`s left of the Sewel Convention,

      all in the name of `The United New Britain`,

      `if we are going down we are going down together whether you like it or not

      let`s all sing together,

      Land of Hope and Glory`.

    407. robbo says:

      Seems we’re at the mercy of this thing until a vaccine or sumit arrives.Seems the herd theory was mince all along eh.

      New research from Guy’s & St Thomas’s

      Immunity to Covid-19 in recovered patients may only last a few months, a new study conducted by King’s College London has suggested.

      According to the research, which has not yet been peer-reviewed, immunity antibodies decrease significantly in the three months following infection, leaving patients susceptible to reinfection year after year – similar to the common cold.

      In what is believed to be the first longitudinal study of its kind, researchers looked into the immune response of 90 patients and healthcare workers at Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Trust.

      While the analysis revealed a “potent” level of antibodies could be found in 60% of participants while at the peak of their battle with coronavirus, sequential blood tests showed only 17% sustained that same level of potency three months later.

      Antibodies decreased 23-fold in some cases, and were depleted entirely in others.

      The report states that its findings have “important implications when considering widespread (antibody) testing, (antibody) protection against re-infection with (Covid 19) and the durability of vaccine protection.”

      It added: “Further studies using sequential samples from these individuals is required to fully determine the longevity of the (antibody) response and studies determining the (antibodies’) threshold for protection from re-infection are needed.”

    408. jfngw says:

      @Breeks

      The trouble with having a lawyer as your FM is they are more likely to respect the law rather than the rights of the people laid down longer than any law. You won’t win independence by respecting law which is ultimately controlled by your opponent.

      The EU vote was a clear wish for the people of Scotland to stay in the EU, from that point it should have been the SG primary objective.

    409. jfngw says:

      @scott Finlayson 8:48

      Yes we no longer need to abide by the EU bidding process but it also gives Westminster the ability to just hand out contracts to their mates without any bidding process, they wouldn’t do that would they, Ohh!

      It also lets WM control which area will receive the jobs bonus of any government investment in companies, expect Tory heartlands to be looked after.

      Same is true for Scotgov but from a much lower financial base, it is peanuts in the scheme of things.

    410. Gary45% says:

      Listening to James OB on LBC at the moment.
      Looks like operation stack is going ahead, remember the “project fear” accusation from the Brexiteers.
      James just came out with a beauty.
      “The Farage Garage.”

    411. Breeks says:

      jfngw says:
      13 July, 2020 at 10:04 am

      ….You won’t win independence by respecting law which is ultimately controlled by your opponent.

      The EU vote was a clear wish for the people of Scotland to stay in the EU, from that point it should have been the SG primary objective.

      Exactly.

      The point about Scotland’s Constitution is that it’s sovereign. It is not controlled by our opponents. It is our law, not theirs.

      The Scottish Government breezed past a manifestly practicable constitutional backstop which Westminster could not have altered or overruled, but they didn’t, and instead supplanted Scotland’s sovereign Constitution with Westminster’s wormtongue Scotland Act and the encroachment upon Scottish sovereignty which it represents.

    412. Col.Blimp IV says:

      iain mhor

      Some of us weep, some of us howl
      Knees turn to jelly, but Next?

      or

      Is that all their is to a Brexit?

    413. schrodingers cat says:

      Gary45% says:
      “The Farage Garage.

      listening too, im defo stealing that one 🙂

    414. liz says:

      Ian Blackford on twitter telling us, yet again, what we already know and have known for sometime.
      The Tories plan to grab devolution powers – well knock me down with a feather.

      I am beginning to detest Blackford, why the hell does he think about 1000 people turned up at a days notice in March 2018 to form a barrier around Holyrood with HOOP?
      Can they be any more deaf, dumb and blind.

      He’s whinging already about how we must show Boris et al that we won’t stand for it by, wait for it, giving the SNP our support.

      The man’s a buffoon, the SNP have lost their way, the FM doesn’t have it in her to push for independence, so please no more buts from the NS worshippers, we need action and we need it now.
      Do as Breeks has been suggesting for ages, get a constitutional backstop, force WM to take us to court

    415. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Breeks

      You never know, Blackford might be getting a Zebedee spring fitted to his arse, so he can boing into the frame as 2020 comes to a close and tell the world…

      …The UK Goverment, acting on behalf of the People of England, have ripped Scotland out of the EU, against the will of the Scottish People and in so doing – They have Terminated The 300 year old Union between our two countries.! – The Bastards!

    416. mike cassidy says:

      Gary45%

      You’ll enjoy this thread on The Farage Garage.

      Keep in mind Damian Green voted to remain.

      I wonder if he really wanted to tweet

      Stupid F##kers!

      https://twitter.com/MPrepuce/status/1281897008811442176

    417. Clapper57 says:

      @ jfngw on 12 July @ 6.09pm

      Yes jfngw…..and if, as they regularly say, that they the Unionists are the so called ‘silent majority’…why the Hell would they need someone like George Galloway to save them….surely they, the ‘silent majority’, need no other help…..yet we find that many well kent Unionist supporters are promoting George as the potential saviour of the Union….why is George needed at all when the message that they, the Unionists, insist is reality in that ‘there is apparently no appetite for a second Independence Ref within Scotland’….amusing that they,Unionists, themselves cannot see the contradiction in this mixed message…

      George’s ‘Workers party of Britain’ is apparently a “socialist organisation”…..they also state “The Workers Party stands with all those countries that have attempted to break free of imperialist domination and build a different kind of world”…they also say “The Workers Party defends the independence and right to development of those countries that are today undermined and attacked by imperialism, not least the heroic Venezuelan people”……meanwhile here in Scotland…know your place Jocks.

      They also state ” The Workers Party stands on principles and will not give these up, one by one, in the misplaced hope of a truce with our enemy”……which is strange considering one of the political parties George has asked to help him in his quest in Scotland is the Scottish TORIES…..so George does not see the Scottish Tories as one of the “enemies” and is , contrary to George’s Workers party of Britain website, willing to concede that there IS hope in having a truce with one of the enemies…i.e. the Tory party in Scotland ???…..so in this instance George IS willing to give up on a principle his party has adopted and consort with the least socialist party..the Tory party.

      George Galloway failed in England to be elected and get on the gravy train so is now trying to board another….and George’s Workers party of Britain also states on their website ” well-intentioned socialists are distraught and disillusioned with their experiences inside the Labour party” yet he, George, has contacted Richard Leonard LABOUR in Scotland to ask for an alliance….

      Confused ?…Yes he, George, is …..as he seems to want to form an alliance that goes against the ‘principles’ his ‘new’ party states they represent….by willing to share a platform and unite in an alliance with those political parties who let down the very people George’s new party is supposedly wanting to represent…..mind you in England George was quite happy to unite with Nigel farage yon well know ‘man of the people’ and ‘hero for the working class man and woman’.

      Let’s be honest….if you as a ‘socialist’ who heads a ‘workers party’ willingly consort with and seek support from the likes of Effie Deans then perhaps a major rethink is required… though Effie only likes the ‘Britain’ part in George’s new party…the ‘Workers’ part not so much …..the anti Independence is so attractive to Effie that even though in normal circumstances Effie would never give George the time of day….if he is willing to promote the Union then principles and morals don’t come into Effie’s equation either…..

      Perhaps as we all know is the case.. George is so very very very desperate to be elected somewhere…anywhere… that you abandon all of your supposed morals and principles that you present as your party’s “vision” and adopt a needs must policy to achieve your ambition…surely that dictates how low you will go to be successful….BTW Effie once in a tweet stated “Bought and sold for RT gold” and showed a picture of Alex Salmond…..I assume Effie does KNOW that George too is on RT…or will that be consigned to the sweep sweep sweep under the carpet…..Lol

      Funny how George’s ‘Workers party of BRITAIN’ is coming to Scotland to fight Scottish election…..assuming perhaps that George, as leader of that party, will be standing in Scotland at Holyrood, where then will that leave his party politically in BRITAIN….this is quite confusing is it not……perhaps they should be called Workers party of North North Britain….

    418. mike cassidy says:

      One for ahundredthidiot

      37 year-old veteran.

      April

      “Let’s make this clear. I’m not buying a mask. I’ve made it this far by not buying into that damn hype.”

      July 4th Died

      http://archive.is/Yd3aw

    419. jfngw says:

      @Clapper 57

      That was a long read, I don’t analyse GW so deeply, it’s much simpler for me, GW priority is GW he will say anything, support any cause if he believes it will further himself. He will be Labour, Tory, radical supporter of the middle east, whatever gets him headlines and he hopes elected. It doesn’t last though the voters soon spot a fraud when exposed long enough. I suspect he was even an independence supporter at one time but he needs to be top dog and there is no route for him to be elected supporting that.

      Just to add most politicians have that narcissistic tendency, you don’t become a representative without it, self preservation runs deep in most of them.

    420. iain mhor says:

      @Breeks 9:43am

      Hmmm a bit of a stretch for me. I think it was more the fact it was ‘signed with a bullet’. The UK Gov’t have no requirement to abide by any Law or Agreement, nor do they, frequently.

      There is also the fact, that it wasn’t a mere domestic spat which led to the GFA – It spilled into many other countries – those countries in turn *ahem ‘assisted’ the UK Gov’t to the agreement in the first place.
      They similarly ‘assisted’ the UK Gov’t in retrieving it from the bin where they had thrown the GFA very recently.

      It’s not where Scotland wants to go, nor should it; but very sadly, globally, political power does indeed grow out the barrel of a gun.

      However, to borrow from the late Mr Banks; where anything can become a weapon, we must be adaptable and ruthless in the use of weapons in our own arsenal.

    421. Clapper57 says:

      @ jfngw, Yes I agree your point succinct and well made .

      Mine….was indeed a long read but sometimes I just need to vent at the constant hypocrisy and double standards…not that it is needed by those on here as most only too aware….but I am one of the main culprits on here who is many a time a bit too self indulgent….Lol

      Hey what can I say….I’m a bitch…Lol

      Have a nice day…. 😉

    422. jfngw says:

      I spotted this tweet from Andrew Morton

      ‘Isn’t it extraordinary that Scotland, which invented TV, radar, penicillin, pneumatic tyres, had the world’s largest shipbuilding industry and ran a large chunk of the British Empire, is the only country on earth which is incapable of governing itself or having a currency?’

      I believe it is very simple, we are programmed from starting school, then reinforced by the London media in Scotland once you leave, that our success is due to being governed by England, it is them that has made us what we are. We are inferior and only made relevant if we are part of a United Kingdom.

      It is a lot of shite of course, but it will not change until we are independent and control a media that covers the good and bad about our country and stops comparing unfavourably every decision made in Scotland with another country.

    423. Gary45% says:

      Mike Cassidy @11.05
      Aye James OB mentioned Green, hell mend them.
      If only we had the “nads” to march on WM and overthrow this shambolic government.

    424. iain mhor says:

      @Col.Blimp IV

      Some of us may weep and howl, but let us continue to dream the impossible dream 😀

    425. iain mhor says:

      @Roberto 7:48am

      Well, it’s not working for you you mean.

      I’m not too troubled by mask wearing. I popped mine on when I nipped in for a pint of milk and some hobnobs at the garage – in much the same fashion I had to pop my helmet off previously – funny old world…

      It’s not unique to Scotland, dry your eyes, we’re behind the curve on countries with mandatory mask wearing in shops etc.
      You’ll have a long walk for teabags if you want to find one that will happily let you go without. England probably.

      I’m glad though we have a personal choice of CCC™ (custom coupon coverings) and don’t have to use Scottish Government issued masks.
      I’ve enough to worry about without it potentially bursting into flames…

    426. Tinto Chiel says:

      Clapper57, you said it all re Gorgeous George with this:

      “George’s ‘Workers party of Britain’ is apparently a “socialist organisation”…..they also state “The Workers Party stands with all those countries that have attempted to break free of imperialist domination and build a different kind of world”…they also say “The Workers Party defends the independence and right to development of those countries that are today undermined and attacked by imperialism, not least the heroic Venezuelan people”……meanwhile here in Scotland…know your place Jocks.”

      I do wish once, just once, a journalist would ask him to explain this hypocritical contradiction.

    427. Joe says:

      Re: face masks

      Sorry folks but face masks do not protect from airborne viruses. They protect from macroscopic droplets to an extent. But they also reduce oxygen content in the body when worn for extended periods making the wearer more susceptible to already carried bacteria and viruses – of which everyone has many. Step into reality ffs

    428. K1 says:

      Fuck off wi this pish about face masks, if they didn’t have efficacy then doctors and nurses wouldn’t be dying from the lack of them.

      It’s been repeatedly pointed out face coverings which the public are being asked to wear are to protect others from them/you spreading the virus in indoor environments like shops, buses et al where social distancing is hard to accommodate.

      The countries with the least infections rates and deaths are those whose populations wore facemasks out and about, its beyond irresponsible to trivialise the potential benefits of wearing them in the face of a novel virus.

      Combined with ventilation this will reduce infection rates in indoor environments, good ventilation is going to be a huge factor in enabling large groups of people to effectively work indoors. Wearing masks is part of the combined effort to reduce the spread and a knock on effect may well be seen in a reduction of flu spread this year too.

      As for oxygen depletion, utter bullshit. I’ve worn half face mask 3M masks for decades for extended periods, and my oxygen levels are not affected by this.

      How can anyone take these arseholes seriously, we are talking a half hour at most in a fucking shop or the length of yer average bus journey, or even 6 hours on a flight, we’re not being asked to fucking sleep in them, or wake up in our own houses and don a facemask!

      We are being asked to consider the possibility that if every one wore one in a crowded situation then anyone who has the virus in that crowd is less likely to infect others for the duration of that time period.

      End.

    429. Gary45% says:

      Joe@1.41
      This will be my only response to you. Dont bother replying, not interested.
      You write total “Nad Sacs”, you say wearing a mask reduces oxygen getting in, therefore on your medical expert analogy, it will reduce virus’s getting in. You do understand that??
      Stop reading Flat earth, anti-vaxxer, Daily Mail/Express garbage.
      Don’t wear a mask, nobody gives a shit if you do.
      Time you stepped into reality. Surgeons wear them for many hours at a time, if they can manage? surely a rocket like you will manage buying the woman’s weekly wearing one.

      Iain mhor@12.53
      Custom coupon coverings. Genius;))
      Up there with open dip skid lid and full dip skid lid, Ah memories of yoof.

    430. Joe says:

      @K1

      Interesting. But incorrect. They cannot stop viruses. The oxygen depletion is a real effect also. In fact couple the lowered immune system with potentially vulnerable people lulled into false sense of security and it could be masks make things worse. Thats why we were advised against them initially

    431. Joe says:

      @Gary45%

      Sorry if you are too thick and weak to think for yourself but wearing a mask builds higher CO2 compared with oxygen. This is not good for the immune system. This is basic. Again, im sorry if its too much for you

    432. Joe says:

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqRL1GXu5DE

      Quickest I could find. N95 does the job. But thats not the instructions is it?

    433. Mike d says:

      K1 2.28pm. Well said.

    434. K1 says:

      There are exemptions you utter fuckstick, there is really no point in engaging with what is an ignorant and below average capacity to understand basic concepts type such as yourself.

      But I am prepared on this one last occasion to address the utter stupidity of your comments.

      Face coverings for the public are not being claimed to ‘stop viruses’, they are to contain the rate of virus spread. As more and more understanding becomes available about ‘how’ it is spread, with superspreaders being the most likely cause of clusters, then wearing any kind of covering will reduce your chances of getting infected in a setting where there is low ventilation and crowding.

      It is the ‘reduced’ spreading that prevents the virus from infecting more and more people, exponentially.

      The reason authorities did not encourage the general public to wear masks in the first place is because of the woefully underfunded and under stocked supplies across the world, so the PPE was needed for health professionals on the front line in hospitals. The fear was that the public panic buying would contribute to those shortages further.

      So social distancing and hand washing were the first public messages that took hold. Many of us had started wearing masks well before the lockdown, and on that point the lockdowns themselves decreased the spread of the virus sufficiently to allow the hospitals to cope with a potentially devastating death toll into the hundreds of thousands,

      Now, did we fuck that up too? Yes. Did we send our elderly people back into care homes to clear the hospitals for what they considered at that time was going to be a tsunami of COVID cases, yes, did we test them first, no. That decisions has cost us in the UK context literally tens of thousand more deaths than was necessary.

      To say that masks at this point would be futile to prevent further spread is to reveal a profound lack of understanding of where we are now. We are being unlocked, more movement, more crowds, more mixing, more bodies for the virus to jump from one to the other,

      What your ultimate result will be, by wearing no masks because ‘reasons ah made up in ma ‘heid’ would ensure is that the virus will spread much as it did pre lockdown and that more and more people as is being reported in those states in the US will become infected and therefore more needless deaths will occur.

      A never ending cycle of re locking, another endless cycle of ensuring sufficient bed space in hospitals and still potential no herd immunity being reported in sufficient number to reassure us that this virus when infected will provide us with long term immunity.

      I won’t be responding to you again, the fact that you have been on this site spouting verifiable pish for weeks now and believe that you have some superior understanding that a 3 year old could easily counter should be noted by all who regularly read these threads.

      But…worse than that is your dangerous and ignorant ‘take’ places anyone without a basic rational outlook in the saddest position of reading this crap and believing that an ounce of it could be true and placing themselves and others in harms way because a man on the internet said ‘masks don’t work’.

      Now fuck off.



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