Third time’s the charmer
Some alert listeners picked up a curious story on today’s edition of Good Morning Scotland, which was reported on the Tattie Scones blog and which we immediately set about investigating further. It was another outing for the “Scotland could be partitioned after the independence referendum” nonsense first peddled by a Tory peer back in January of this year, and picked up by unhinged Scotsman columnist Michael Kelly in August, but the latest advocate of slicing Scotland into countless separate parts that could require you to cross international borders a dozen times on a drive from Dumfries to Dingwall was our old pal Ian Davidson.
The Glasgow MP, who to the astonishment of alien observers from far-off galaxies has been placed in charge of the Scottish Affairs Select Committee in order to conduct a fully impartial analysis of Scottish “separation”, apparently made the suggestion sometime this week, but GMS curiously failed to include either an interview or a quote in its 69-second news report, which you can hear in its entirety by clicking on this link.
The piece also suggested that some of Davidson’s own colleagues were among those pouring scorn on the ludicrous notion, but declined to identify any of them. It wasn’t repeated in the rest of the programme, and we’re still none the wiser as to when and where the comments were made. (Although we know when it wasn’t.)
If any reader can enlighten us, please feel free.
The wird o the future is onion.
Never mind Ian the polls your lot always bring up say independence as got no chance. That is what you believe is it not?…
Independence for Lauderdale!
First meeting of the Popular People’s Front of Lauderdale is tonight at the Black Bull.
Rev Stu
Your “this link” link is error 404
PPFoL SPLITTERS!
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
I think Davidson’s brain was partitioned years ago.
ronald alexander mcdonald says:
I think Davidson’s brain was partitioned years ago.
Yes, he just got custody of the pons though, so the basic functions (bladder control, etc.) are covered, but he gets to interact with his cerebellum on alternate weekends in case he needs to give someone a doing.
If one region gets to stay in while the rest of the country chooses independence then obviously one region can go independent if the rest of the country decides to stay.
I’m glad we can count on Ian Davisdson’s support for an independent West Lothian
“Your “this link” link is error 404”
AGH. I wish I knew why WordPress does that sometimes. Fixed now, ta.
I saw it in todays “Press&Journel”, it was being treated as a joke, “independence for Goven”.
@Davy
He hopes Govan will vote NO and stay in the fUK so can keep his fat salary & expenses package. I reckon he needs a good doin.
I heard on Forth One News on the way back from work that Frank Mulholland – Lord Advocate – is apparently ‘not impartial’ according to Labour as he has spoken in support of the SNP not seeking legal advice on the EU prior to the Edinburgh Agreement.
Can’t find anything online yet, but should appear soon if Forth One ran with it.
Seems if you agree with anything the SNP do, you are either biased or have gone native according to unionists.
SS
Murphy tweet link to twitter.com
@AndrewFG
Cheers. Here we go from STV:
link to news.stv.tv
BBC will really have to run with it too. How irritating that will be for them.
Davidson (no relation of course) is simply being a Troll in the meatworld, but unfortunately there are some folk who do think that this is a serious option, usually foaming at the mouth UKIP’ers. I travel a lot in the day job, and often end up sitting beside them on planes or late at night in hotel lounges. When learning I’m from Scotland, and the far North, the old “Orkney and Shetland don’t want to join an Independent Scotland so why should you force them” line often comes out. These folk invariably read the Torygraph and Daily Hail.
The trick I find is to enquire whether they are keen on a referendum on the UK’s place in Europe. “Yes of course” is the invariable answer. So, “what if Yorkshire votes to leave the EU and the Midlands to stay, does that mean that Leeds is part of EFTA and Manchester part of the EU?” “Of course not, thats a ridiculous position”, is the usual reply.
“And so is yours my son, and so is yours”, is my answer, just as they stomp off…..
P & J that well known purveyor of unionist views gave it a whole column complete with photo. Independence for Govan following ‘yes’ vote!! Must be first time the ‘yes’ word has passed his lips.
Not a word about Alec becoming longest serving FM in whole rag.
If it wasn’t for their daily fix of the Staggies I wouldn’t bother
From the STV website:
Labour MSP Lewis Macdonald accused the SNP administration of forcing Mr Mulholland to “dance to the political tunes played by ministers”.
He said: “The Lord Advocate has given the clearest indication that his position has been politically compromised by Alex Salmond.”
I don’t think he should be allowed to get away with that; he is accusing the Lord Advocate, speaking not in a wine bar, but in his official capacity, of – lying.
I think Roderick Lewis Macdonald MA, PhD should know better. Or did he buy his degree and doctorate over the internet, and suspects everyone else of the same moral standards?
No, Lewis Macdonald undoubtedly earned his qualifications and can be respected for that. He should have the same respect for a QC and a Lord Advocate. He should retract and apologise, and any MSM worth its salt would say the same.
O/T.
I was just reading NNS. Someone was berating’exel’ for his usual nonsense. Another poster outed ‘exel’ as Alex Sloan, Fife, who regularly posts on the Herald website, as one of his posts was exactly the same on NNS and the Herald.
The posts saying it was ‘exel’ and associated posts have vanished. Something very strange going on at NNS.
Maybe they just put a premium on protecting posters’ privacy?
I’m maybe just a conspiracy nut, Morag. 🙂
The large number of pro SDA / written constitution posters on NNS has always puzzled me though.
O/T
Trump might have more than windmills at sea spoiling his golf course to worry about .
Trump commits treason on twitter by calling for a revolution after Obama wins the presidential election .
I would suggest sending davidson to America to join trump , but I think he is doing a great job for the yes campaign with his insane rants .
My last posting on NNS took 2 days to appear, by which time it didn’t appear on the most recent postings panel, nor was the thread “current”. This happened a few times; the only postings which did appear quickly were those that were “in tune” with other postings or the article. My conclusion was that it has an agenda, and my often contradictory views, weren’t part of it, so were lost or artificially delayed. Oh aye, many obviously pre-moderated postings (time-stamps) appeared long before mine.
In addition, some of the articles are ones a moderate wouldn’t want to be associated with, not designed to win over “hearts and minds”. Comparing the UK as a whole, and the Union Jack with Savile for instance, is likely to antagonise over half of the Scottish Electorate. And a negative case for Indy was at least half totally cringeworthy.
I’ll not post there again, as I wouldn’t want “dadsarmy” associated with it!
NNS is now super nervous about posters making claims on line. They threatened to ban a guy who apparently posted the name of the Tory MP spoken about in the Savile / BBC stuff. I hardly post there these days, but I suspect it is nervousness on their part. Quite why the Herald would react as they did I do not know, unless exel asked them to?
Juteman. Trust me you’re not a conspiracy nut!
ps. Tho’ exel is seriously pro-dependent and much of what he says is, to be polite, total crap.
While over at the BBC, the ‘Editors’ ‘pick’ 2 comments on the AS ‘longest serving’ article as worthy of highlighting for the masses, then later remove these same comments for breaching the very rules they as editors have specified.
Yes, the staff at the BBC are truly of the highest calibre. Fills you with pride it truly does. Such amazing intellect.
O/T I don’t know about everyone else but I’m getting pish sick of hearing about the American Elections and how Obama is getting a second term. You know what I don’t really care, I just wish our media would spend half the time they are on this informing or covering the elections and politics here. what is it makes them think this is massive news to the ordinary man here, because everyone I work with or know really doesn’t havMyanmar opinion about it. And why should they, they stay in Scotland not the US.
Alex
It’s when they start reporting purely domestic US stories that’s REALLY annoying. Happens a lot too – and we hardly get any info or analysis about Europe!
Now I know Ian Davidson is a golem.
@ AndrewfaeGovan, I know what You mean, it’s kind of forcefed to you isn’t it, I don’t understand why they do it, as I said no one I know gives a shit, unless they are going to Disneyland and the weathers pish over there. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t mind a wee snippet of news about international or European stuff, but it’s getting that the media can’t tell us what’s going on in Paisley, but if you want to know what colour of underwear the Republican candidates wearing today, not a problem.
@ Juteman NNS has got really strange, it’s just a site where 10 folk argue about the merits of a written codified constitution , to be honest it’s getting that a visit to the dentist for root treatment, with no jags would be preferable.
I too have seen a shift in editorial oversight at Newsnet Scotland and have had submissions denied without explanation.
Bold claims, even when they are backed by facts or evidence are often declined or removed soon after being posted.
I suspect the highhanded approach is an attempt to attract corporate sponsorship/corporate advertising that would be frightened off by direct, even extreme views being posted.
What’s going on with BBC Scotlandshire? First, a few days ago, a hilarious and not especially unkind photo-story article that ended up with Johann wearing a “Mo’vember” moustache was pulled.
Now today there is an article suggesting that Labour are trying to trace the site’s owner to have it closed down.
I think Romney was wearing red, and Obama blue, but I changed channels when they started doing moonies out of the limo windows. That was just too close to the bone.
@ G H Graham it’s been getting like that for a while , if your view does not match a select few posters on there, your gone, there are a few posters, some post on here also ( you know who you are) that have persevered with it. But I have given up, have a look at the headlines now and again, but in my opinion WOS has now become the place for ordinary punters to have a say, not just political anoraks.
Wow just saw the scores on sky sports, congratulations Celtic , just wish it was my team. Enjoy your party lads.
Alex Mcl
I am one of the ones who try to persevere with N.N.S but it pi***s me off when you submit a post before 8am and it does not appear until after 10pm , thats if it appears at all .
I know I am still on pre moderation ! but that is redicules .
I had been a lurker around newsnet and only started posting when they started bringing in all these crazy rules .
I was trying to back up the regular posters that newsnet were ruining what used to be an excellent site .
It was newsnet that got me interested in politics again after becoming disillusioned with the labour and trade union movement after more than 10 years as an activist .
The elections in America mean about as much to me as I suspect our elections mean to them. This obsession with the USA has been getting worse over the last twenty years. Regarding Newsnet Scotland, I don’t bother with them any more. Some of the stuff they publish is just baloney.
@silvertay as I said you all know who you are, it’s admirable you and others keep trying, and like you NNS was the site that made me take an interest in politics, I first stumbled across the site in Jan 2011, it was first class until the Holyrood elections in May then went steadily downhill for the likes of myself, I’m just a working class guy who doesn’t get the nuances of politics. A spade is a spade with me mate. That’s why I am glad I found wings, I don’t need to pretend that I’m something I’m not on here. But I get educated every day, with a good dose of humour. But you keep plugging away there and respect to you for trying. I just won’t waste the limited time I have, just to have ten minutes of typing on an iPhone go missing.
Alex McL
Like you I much prefer wings these days . As I said on wings 1st birthday , the thing I like about it is the Rev keeps updating the stories during the day . On newsnet the stories don’t change for 24hrs and sometimes they will stay on the home page for a week .
Keep up the good work Alex and hopefully we will all realise our dreams in 2014 .
Really disappointed in NNS at the moment. Over the last couple of nights they have published two stories on Ruth Davidson meeting with Spanish neo fascists in an attempt to thwart Scottish and Catalonian independence. It is a story that should have been picked up by the MSM, but as it could damage the no campaign, total silence. I had a post published on Monday night which was supported by another poster. I was going to post again last night and just thought I would double check what I had said the previous night. No joy my post had disappeared!
My first post was not in my opinion in any way controversial. I did mention neo fascists and nazi Germany, however I did not accuse anyone or any party of anything.
I emailed NNS for an explanation, I am still waiting. I appreciate that the folk who manage NNS are all volunteers and I do not want to be too critical. However it would be good to know where I went wrong.
On a happier note congratulations to Celtic on a magnifcient performance (again!) and victory over Barcelona. Also congratulations to the fans who sang all night in support of their team and not one offensive song. The Scottish government’s firm stand on sectarianism is changing Scotland for the better. Well done Kenny Macaskill. Well done Scotland!
The comments section of NNS has become a free platform for whatever the SDA cuckoo’s in the nest wish to post.
That is about it.
I visit less and less frequently – a real shame.
Juteman says:
7 November, 2012 at 8:11 pm
O/T. I was just reading NNS. Someone was berating’exel’ for his usual nonsense. Another poster outed ‘exel’ as Alex Sloan, Fife, who regularly posts on the Herald website, as one of his posts was exactly the same on NNS and the Herald.The posts saying it was ‘exel’ and associated posts have vanished. Something very strange going on at NNS.
It was no secret Alex Sloan is excel at NNS – and wanted all posters to declare identities – just like wot he dun. He signed off his usual excel rubbish as Alex Sloan.
It’s true that NNS have put in re-post time rules and now limit the length of comments and also that many posters seem to have drifted away to other pastures, but it was an independence groundbreaking site and should not be vilified here. I am also angry at what seems to be evidence of a too heavy controller at NNS, but don’t let it wither. Look in and make your spiel. The more, the absolute merrier!
It may not be an ideal situation, but I don`t think “slagging off” NNS here on WoS is such a good idea. The last thing we (supporters of Independence) need is a split in what little pro-independence blogs are out there against the hefty weight of UK sponsored unionist MSM propaganda. Sometimes, we are going to have to bite our lips and grimace and not let personal gripes get in the way of a bigger picture.
Okay, maybe that`s more than a tad naive; I`m sure we are all on tenderhooks over a lot of issues at the moment, but, let`s just give certain parties the benefit of the doubt. If certain posting situations do not improve, then, perhaps we can draw attention to those situations.
I used to be in the EIS whose motto was “Unity is Strength”, never a truer word said!
I think Ian Davidson knows his career is on a shoogly nail. Given that independence happened and that the Labour Party continued in it’s present form, I doubt he would even get candidature to the new Scottish Parliament.
These are desperate times for Team Davidson.
_____________________________________________
I assume that part of the White Paper we are expecting will include details of how we achieve a written constitution? I think that the way the Icelanders have gone about this is perhaps a model worth considering.
Quite why Alex Sloan / Excel assumes that this will not be addressed is interesting. Perhaps, rather than in the protected media that is NNS, he could do a guest article here so that we could understand and debate his concerns?
I do want a written constitution but I am fairly relaxed about the timing. I would like it to come from the people rather than the politicians. hence the Icelandic example above.
Two senses of reason Barontorc & Yesitis as I am beginning to wonder if other posters on here are really committed to Independence or not by openly attacking another pro Independence site because they assume can say what they want where ever because they can. It turns people off even from viewing this site.
Some time back on NNS exel declared himself to be Alex Sloan, as some sort of challenge for others to do likewise, so that cannot be the reason for posts being removed.
I do hope NNS continues, it has contributed much over the past but it has become a bit dry and humourless. Then there is the note above by Morag that BBC Scotlandshire is possibly under threat.
cynicalHighlander,
There are people on NNS who say:
“I would vote for independence, but….” whatever floats their boat.
It is at least argueable that it is they that are less committed.
I would welcome a more open discussion between friends on these issues. One has only to look at the list of people here that used to comment there to see how they are apparently trying to control the agenda. Folk don’t like that. Perhaps it is untrue, but it is the perception amongst people who have ‘exited stage left’ from NNS.
We will, by 2014, see pro-independence web sites rise and fall in their relative popularity. It would, err…, be silly, to assume that one size fits all. It would also be daft to assume that each and every one of them doesn’t have a personal agenda.
Meantime, I feel all this internicene stuff is a waste of time. We should be on the MsM fighting our case in the comments. Scott Minto is a shining light in that context.
Hereabouts, we see comments about embargoing MsM, which I see as a way of cutting off our noses off to spite our faces. It is, frankly, a ridiculous arguement for what is supposed to be a persuasive campaign. I try my best, but there are better and clearer voices than mine.
The fight is not between ourselves, but we should be aware that some are conducting a power struggle here, and that there are elements even pro the independence case that are posturing already for their place in a free Scotland. That is as it should be, but it should be transparent. Not kept behind locked doors.
Just saying…….
What vellofellow said,
I have the most enormous admiration for Paul T Kavanagh who’s Unionist Myths article is a work of wit and genius, IMHO.
I’ve seen a few posters saying they’ve had comments not even appear on Guardian. I’ve had a few moderated out, but could see that they could be against the “community guidelines”. And if in doubt, perhaps a moderator should play safe and moderate out, rather than leaving a posting that upsets a fellow poster, or discourages open debate. I guess out of nearly 200 pages, I’ve had maybe less than 2 dozen postings moderated out, maybe even less. And just one posting fail to appear at all – a “cleaner” attempt at a second reply after the first was moderated (I used the word “liar!).
But I’ve been strongly critical of Guardian, and Severin Carrell – and none of those got moderated out, in fact a couple of them got answers – as have other posters’ critical comments about SC at times. I was going to give up CiF, but will probably keep going but on a greatly reduced basis, and mostly about articles, rather than engaging with contra-postings.
“Unity is strength”. Yes, but the SNP NATO conference was on the other hand very widely praised in the MSM because it was fierce, critical, totally open, and very democratic. And nobody got bottled. One of the reasons I’ve been looking for an open forum is precisely so I can criticise the YES campaign, Alex Salmond and the SNP and others, hence the overall campaign for Independence. When I feel it needs it.
I’ve been reluctant to do that on the Gaurdian because it feels like “letting the side down”. But the idea I have is that rather than just going along with things that aren’t quite right in my view, I can maybe contribute by pointing them out so they can be changed. I also think it’s a good idea to criticise openly though, especially the SG, so that undecided “lurkers” can see that we’re trying to be honest and fair. Unlike the Unionists 😉
That’s my take!
From NNS Moderation policy:
“* revealing personal information about other posters and/or users such as name, private address, phone number, email address or other details;”
Unless someone signs off using their real name at the bottom of posts each and every time they post, then it is unfair that moderators should remember who has or has not in the past done so. A bit like a referee, there decision should stand.
NNS has a massive following, lets leave them to get on with the job in hand, in a way that they see fit. They run several news stories on most days and are one of the more far reaching sites for the Indy cause. Well written and researched pieces come from a variety of authors such as Bob Duncan and Alex Robertson. Many others like George Kerevan, Gerry Hassan, David Torrence, Kenneth Roy and Leslie Riddoch contribute also. Its got a rich mixture of vibrant voices all communicating to the reader. They have their own ‘You Tube’ channel which is handy for catching up on various TV happenings and their ‘We Are Scotland” series offers a different angle to their news story output. There would be a hole for many people if NNS did not exist.
Wings has been very fortunate to date in having very little in the way of ‘attacks’, although there was a pet troll for a wee while. Comments remain well balanced, often with humour and a bit of good natured banter thrown in for good effect. The site is very well written, researched and presented and pretty much run by a single person to boot.
There are many good sites for the Independently minded people, there is not so many for the Unionists, nor is there many Unionist sites that are very welcoming for commentators to ask questions or challenge facts. Most (not all) of these sites will at least put you on moderation and many will not print anything that might even remotely question simple facts or different views.
I shall leave on a happy note – all of these sites give use news, views and interaction with others of a similar mindset. Scotland can be a more inclusive society, we have that choice available to us, that is why we each have an important vote to cast at the ballot in under two years time. The people of Scotland get to decide not who Governs for the next few years, but who do we look after as a nation and what things do we really value in this country. What are the things that will make a difference to real peoples lives?
All fair points raised above, The last thing i want to do is cause disharmony amongst independence supporters.
My concern was that some others DO want to create disharmony, and NNS seems to give them free reign, whilst blocking replies to their comments.
I’m always on the look out for black ops from the unionists, so maybe i do tend to get a little paranoid. 🙂
Agree with pretty much all of the above vis a vis NNS. Its a good news site, no question, but as a posting forum it has gone down hill big time. It used to have a sense of fun and controversy. The threads would flow naturally and have a conversational feel. Most posters would self moderate and on the odd occasion when language became somewhat wild or intolerant the moderators would step in and have a quiet word on thread to explain their decisions. Well not no more Lochaber.
Much more a fan of the Revs style forum.
In the past I have criticised people for slagging off other pro independence sites but the S.N.P conference changed my mind on that .
I missed the conference due to being on holiday so as soon as I got back I was on every site I could find to see how the conference went .
What struck me about the comments was how many people were praising the fact that the S.N.P had such an open discussion and debate about things and that included people who we would normally class as enemies of the S.N.P .
So perhaps there is an argument that we should be discussing the whole independence debate and other pro independence sites .
Whether that will help to attract the undecided voters I dont know .
What I do know is that calling undecided voters brain dead , morons and any other name some people want to call them will not attract them into the yes camp .
When we post we have to remember that it is the undecided voter that we have to attract and the story that N.N.S has up this morning about unionists fiddling figures to make Scotland look bad is just the type of story we need to help the undecided to move into the yes camp .
Adrian B,
You say:
“Wings has been very fortunate to date in having very little in the way of ‘attacks’, although there was a pet troll for a wee while. Comments remain well balanced, often with humour and a bit of good natured banter thrown in for good effect. The site is very well written, researched and presented and pretty much run by a single person to boot.”
I wonder why it has not come under attack. It is noteable that Unionists, in general, stay in their own media or the MSM. I assume that that is because, from their point of view, once you’ve crossed the Rubicon you are beyond redemption?
I would read this web site in any event. RevStu is a prodigious and witty author, but a minor confession, I also read it for the ammunition that it provides for taking on the Unionists in the MsM. As a call to arms, I’d like to see a lot more of you challenging their agenda in the MsM. For I enjoy the comments here almost as much as I enjoy the op-ed. Frankly, most of you are hiding your light under a bushel. Your opinions count for a lot and ought to be heard as much as Cllr T Kelly, Grahamski or Michael McKeown who tend(ed) to get free reign for their nonsense. And, in any event, you’d do it better than me.
Sook!
NNS deserves the criticism, just as the BBC or any other news outlet gets flak. If they are determined to push NNS into the same midden as the MSM then I and others should have no hesitation in voicing concerns or pointing this out. Turning a blind eye to all faults does not make things better, despite what the NNS Rapid Response Defence Squad say every time on the WOS comments whenever the topic comes up.
Silverytay
I agree, we have to be able to take a critical look at ourselves and the sites and forums we visit. We should be able to say without fear that ‘by the way big man yer site’s fair took a dive’ and not have it immediately modded off. The perception is that somehow you’ve stepped out of line, that you’ve stepped out of the ranks as it were. I’d say the most important difference between the sites we inhabit and those of the opposition is that we prefer the open honest debate/argument/boorach to perpetual modding. IMO the only time the mod should step in is in the case of consistent personal abuse or baseless defamatory remarks. If folks want a fight rather than a debate or conversation there’s always the street to get on with it.
Gents (and Ladies),
Its a Horses for Courses situation between WoS and NNS. Not everyone reacts the same to each style of writing / Blog / News Outlet. NNS does a great job getting stories into the public domain and more power to them for that.
Its true that they may be wary (even afraid) of uncensored comment but can you blame them? They are target number 1 at the moment for the Unionists and any excuse that could be used to shut them would be.
The Rev’s style is different but we have been fortunate that the postings have been good natured and clean.
(Remember its up to us to convince people of independence and we should always write as if an undecided was reading)
The point is, you can still go on and make a comment on an article in NNS. You may not be able to have a conversation like you can on Wings but you can still get your feedback in and thats a LOT more than can be said of the BBC.
And thats what we should all be doing, whether its in NNS to correct or compliment, or in the MSM to cut through the fog of misdirection for the ordinary punter.
Douglas Clark is right! If we hole up on our own wee blogs then we will not win the vote. We need to engage with the public in all occassions, be that face to face or online.
Be honest, how many people who post here found the site through the comments left on another forum?
We need sites like NNS to keep attracting people and pointing them in the direction of the true independence issues so that they can find sites like WoS.
Sadly, the only real criticism I have of NNS is that they do not provide links to other pro independence sites and thereby help to get people who are interested in independence in touch with the full independence community.
In the end though we should treat our pro-indy friends with respect, even when we are giving them critical feedback.
Macart
To a certain degree each pro independent site while different actually compliment each other .
It was due to the different stories on W.O.S and N.N.S that I managed to get my first convert , when she left work yesterday she was going home to point other people in the direction of both sites and munguin,s republic .
If we are not prepared to have an honest open debate among ourselves , how can we convince the undecided voter .
As I said above it was the response to the S.N.P conference that changed my mind about debates within the pro independence camp , prior to that my attitude was dont rock the boat .
It is going to be a long 2 years trying to convince the undecided voters one by one but as the saying goes , mighty oaks grow from little acorns .
In my opinion, if anyone has had a post moderated out, failed to post or be deleted thereafter, it’s perhaps not the best approach to cease attempting to post on that site again.
My view is that if the pro-indy message is siloed into sites such this one (as good as they may be), the message would then fail to reach the undecided.
My reasoning for this view is the undecided will likely (at worst) not be sufficiently engaged in the debate to know of these sites existence, or at least not be sufficiently tempted in to engagement in the debate.
I believe that this plays into the hands of the MSM. As in ‘contain the exposure message’.
But, also, I think that the use of moderate language, consistence of approach and a dedication to getting the information as exposed as possible is the key.
Let’s be open, let’s be honest, let’s be consistent and transparent. Let’s be respectful to others.
But most important, let’s be as dedicated as possible to the endeavour of getting the facts and figures out there so that everyone can have the chance to make an informed opinion. Simple fact is that pro-indy stance is up against it.
I think what needs to be borne in mind is that everyone is entitled to have a view, everyone has also a right to know the facts.
“Remember its up to us to convince people of independence and we should always write as if an undecided was reading”
Yes.
@Eco_Exile
Correct.
We have the advantage of a positive vision, financials that back our stance and the constant reminder of Westminster greed and corruption to highlight our calls for better democracy in an independent Scotland.
We need to keep engaging with the public on any field we can.
I share a lot of the sentiments expressed above about NNS, and the need to promote other pro-indy sites, keeping it positive etc. I’m also a tad frustrated with NNS as a site, the limitations placed on postings, and the preponderance of strange monomaniacs like exel, Upspake and the coterie of SDA “true believers” constantly going off on one about a written constitution etc.
That being said, the site does serve as a good antidote to the tsunami of MSM disinformation, and in combatting the useful fools of the No campaign and the dependency parties, who can always rely on the supine and deeply discredit media in Scotland and the UK as a whole in full cry to spin any given issue to the detriment of the Yes campaign, the SNP, Alex Salmond, the SG and the independence movement more generally… often all at the same time which is something of an achievement!
As the nonsense highlighted in the OP above demonstrates, there are no depths to which the unionist establishment will not stoop in their increasingly hysterical attempts to discredit the Yes campaign. We can only expect this to get worse the closer the referendum comes, particularly if the polls start moving against them.
It seems to me that the clear battleground (and the lesson of Obama’s victory?) is to focus on winning over the undecided voters, ensuring a high turn out, and focusing on the issues. As the estimable Lallands Peat Worrier recently posted, on many of the issues like WMD’s, having expenditure controlled by Scotland, EU membership, universal benefits etc., the majority of Scottish voters are in favour of the solutions being advocated by the Yes campaign and/or SNP. What pro-indy campaigners need to do is convince “enough” of these waverers or undecided voters that the ONLY way such policies will be realised or protected is by voting Yes.
Scott Minto/Silverytay
Agreed on pretty much all points. As a news site I’m a big fan of NNS, still push a couple of quid their way when I find myself in funds and direct people towards both NNS and WoS whenever I can. Also agreed on the lack of links to other independence minded sites and blogs, don’t understand that one at all. My only real gripe has been their handling of comments, lags, modding policy, extended delays between posts and suchlike. Fully behind the idea of posting directed at the undecided, fruitless arguments with fully paid up members of the too wee, too poor, too stupid brigade are a complete waste of time.
Excellent post Sneekyboy
I agree. Given the wide coverage the unionist media has, the only way that many people can find out exactly what is going on in Scottish politics is from the fantastic work of the many, probably unpaid supporters of a fairer more prosperous independent Scotland.
I cannot thank them enough.
Speaking of corruption…
has anyone else read THIS ARTICLE.
This is an excerpt:
In 1999, an international investigation of child pornographers and paedophiles run by Britain’s National Criminal Intelligence Service, code named Operation Ore, resulted in 7,250 suspects being identified in the United Kingdom alone. Some 1850 people were criminally charged in the case and there were 1451 convictions. Almost 500 people were interviewed “under caution” by police, meaning they were suspects. Some 900 individuals remain under investigation. In early 2003, British police began to close in on some top suspects in the Operation Ore investigation, including senior members of Blair’s government.
However, Blair issued a D-Notice, resulting in a gag order on the press from publishing any details of the investigation.
At the end of the article it lists the following:
‘Assorted Party Political Perverts for your attention’
Scott Minto
Almost nothing surprises me anymore when talking about Westminster politicians or parties, but that came close.
So many under suspicion??
Scott, that is literally incredible. And yet, if it were not broadly true, how could anyone publish such detailed names and so on? Most of it isn’t even allegations, it’s reporting of actual convictions and jail terms.
I start remembering some stuff about Jeremy Thorpe and a dog back in the 1970s (my mother knew Thorpe’s wife, from her previous incarnation as Countess of Harewood, and I just remember her saying, oh poor Marion.)
One deviant is perhaps a misfortune. That sort of number speaks of a culture of deviancy.
Suspicion, Macart? That list isn’t suspicion. That list is actual convictions and jail terms. That’s what’s so astounding.
Mmmm, having looked at the article Scott linked to, there are massive red flags on the site. “The Prophecy of Sion.” References to a “Masonic” cover-up. Some of this has been the stock-in-trade for swivel-eyed conspiraloons for years.
However, if these actual convictions and actual jail terms are for real, something has been going on, and something has been rather effectively covered up.
After Scott’s shocking post, am I alone in thinking that a) Power certainly attracts sex abusers. and b) Perhaps we need more females in positions of trust?
Wow that is really shocking, it seems to be a breeding ground for deviants, makes you wonder if its only the tip of the iceberg.
Not just the list posted Morag, but those under suspicion or allegation on the linked article. It’s just incredible.
Perverts are perfect politicians for the elite. The ‘powers’ in the country don’t want honest and decent politicians. Anyone with skeletons in their cupboard can be easily manipulated and controlled.
@Morag,
I agree that the site linked to uses information to further its own agenda…
Whats worrying is the information on its own.
Of course it would need verified but if found to be accurate is a damning report on democracy and justice in our current system.
I’m always mystified as to why sites like those can’t resist the urge to make themselves look as mental as possible. I’ve done a quick bit of superficial Googling and at least some of the claims appear to be backed up by legitimate news sources, eg:
link to menmedia.co.uk
link to coventrytelegraph.net
But anyone looking at that site and the many like it is quite likely going to dismiss it as the mad rantings of a tinfoil-hat loony. It’s baffling that nobody’s just published the info WITH LINKS, not surrounded by a load of batshit gibberish, and let it stand on its own merits.
“It’s baffling that nobody’s just published the info WITH LINKS, not surrounded by a load of batshit gibberish, and let it stand on its own merits.”
X1000
@Rev,
Interesting comments from the Lib dems on that article you linked to:
SHAMED Neil Derbyshire has been thrown out of the national Liberal Democrat party following sex convictions.
Derbyshire, 50, from Manor Road in Marple, had his membership revoked by senior LibDems because he had been convicted of sexual assault and trying to buy sex from a 16-year-old boy in Offerton in March…
…His employer and former party colleague Chris Davies MEP said the LibDems had made the wrong decision.
He added: “The party has not taken into account the full extent of the humiliation and punishment which Neil Derbyshire has already gone through. He’s lost his political hopes and aspirations for the future.
“I’m not convinced that the party should have ignored the 30 years work he has contributed. How much does a man have to be punished for a moment of madness?”
Labour Party Activist Mark Tann
link to news.bbc.co.uk
‘He placed an ad in the shop window as
a child minder claiming he was with the
NSPCC, Then he repeatedly raped my little girl.’
A mother told the Court.(Child One)
Labour Party activist Mark Trotter
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Wow,
Its amazing what you can find:
link to expressandstar.com
link to dailymail.co.uk
link to bbc.co.uk
link to walesonline.co.uk
The stories regarding Blair issuing a D notice to stop Operation Ore investigations on the run up to the Iraq war have been around for years, but they’ve never been given mainstream credence.
As to the article that Scott posted, look at the use of the words ‘homosexual’ and ‘gay’ and the details supplied to crimes where victim and abuser are of the same sex. Someone’s got an issue.
Other than chatter on the internet I doubt that any ‘senior politician’ will be revealed as a paedophile. It’s not the way we do things in this country. Jimmy Saville is the people’s scapegoat and it’s unseemly to ask about his friends in Number 10 and The Palace
Sneekyboy
Yeah but
Yeah but
SALMOND HAD JAFFA CAKES WITH TWO PARTY SUPPORTERS IN BUTE HOUSE!
So there!
@Erchie
“SALMOND HAD JAFFA CAKES WITH TWO PARTY SUPPORTERS IN BUTE HOUSE!”
I’m not down with you kids on slang these days…
What exactly is “having a jaffa cake” and why do you need three people?
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit that is not a biscuit but a cake (link to hmrc.gov.uk)
How it is used I leave to your own sordid imagination!
Just looked up some information on D Notices. Apparantly, they are advisory only and newspapers could still have chosen to publish. They are also usually linked to issues of defence and national security and the decision to issue one is made by a defence committee. So, what I’d like to know is: Was a D Notice definitely issued in connection with Operation Ore, and if so, in what way was it linked to our national security? For example, was our national security actually at risk at any point because of the activities of any of the individuals involved or was the decision to issue the D Notice actually taken for reasons of political expediency rather than national security – with Blair, you’d never know!
@Jeannie
As much as I despise Blair, the only people who seem to have known about the D Notice are conspiracy nuts on the internet.
@Cuphook,
I agree. D notice seems to be red herring just like the comments on Lord Robertson.
BUT allegations do need investigated before they can be discounted.
Should focus on background info of abuse. It seems too high to be coincidental.
As the Rev said, stick to the facts, link to the articles and let the scale of it stand on its own.
If I ever get invited to Bute House I’ll bring my own biscuits and tea in a flask – I’ll not have the FM brought into disrepute again. And yes, it would be Tunnock’s Caramel Logs, since you’re wondering.
“Wings has been very fortunate to date in having very little in the way of ‘attacks’,”
Actually we get attacked quite a bit, just not by anyone that anybody pays attention to…
Why the fixation on Tunnock’s when Boyd Tunnock is a committed Unionist?
Surely there is confectionary suitable for supporters of “Yes Scotland”?
@Erchie
Surely there is confectionary suitable for supporters of “Yes Scotland”?
Breakaways?
I think you could probably add the name of Peter Morrison, former MP for Chester, Thatcher’s former campaign manager to the list. He has been implicated in the North Wales child abuse case(s). Morrison was named by Channel 4 news this week. He is said to have been named in the North Wales inquiry report. The case of Jimmy Saville has allowed victims to come forward and Tom Watson’s claims have now brought the subject to the heart of the establishment. There are other names, very close to Thatcher, who are also said to have been involved. It looks like it will take some time before these allegations are proved or rejected. There is another side to it though. Many get accused who are innocent, the Orkney case in the 1990s etc.
@Jeannie
“Breakaways”
Classic, thanks for that!
I believe Tunnock can be turned….
@Major Bloodnok
I believe Tunnock can be turned
Don’t tell me he’s actually a “waferer”.
@Jeannie
If pushed he may crumble…
link to youtube.com
My favourite scene from Apollo 13 – at around 2.30 into the clip, watch in amazement as the astronauts float down to earth under what appears to be three large Tunnocks Teacakes. If only the film makers had been Scottish, they’d have known they could have gotten a sponsorship deal from Boyd Tunnock.
Staying on Topic, politics is no Picnic, and it can be a Marathon, but it has its Moments.
More than once have I seen someone famous shamelessly groping for a handful of Nobbies Nuts in full view of the public.
While driving !
Jeannie, this is the biggest Tunnock’s tea cake I could find.
link to pimpthatsnack.com
This site was a Revell-ation.
Ok, “Timeout” !
There’s too many “Smarties” posting “Allsorts” of nonsense on here. Careful or the moderator may put a “Bounty” on your heads.
The unionists have got their snickers in a twix again.
@Luigi
I see you are a member of DNA (The National Dyslexics Association)
@Major Bloodnok
That is utterly amazing! That’s the best website I’ve seen for ages. I can only stand back in awe and admiration for minds that can think like that. Should be compulsive viewing for all Home Eekies and Chemistry teachers and a wonderful example of how to implement Curriculum for Excellence and grab the weans’ interest. I even know somebody whose mouth that would fit – can’t remember his name, but I think he chairs the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs, or something of a similar name, down at Westminster. First name rhymes with “peein”.
In that case, here’s one for Ian Davidson: Britainberg cake.
Thank ‘Crunchie’ we’re getting an Independence referendum in 2014…I think the YES campaign will do a ‘Rocky’ you know…
@Major Bloodnok
Do you think we should let the First Minister know about the recipe for the giant Jaffa Cakes? We get some “Brownie” points with him.
I think “The Rev” and “Scottish Skier” together on a weekly radio or TV programme similar to question time would be a great way of getting the message across to the public.
Imagine Lamont or Rennie or wee Ruthie trying to spread their lies when they are being innundated with the truth, bombarded with accurate statisticsthat can be backed up and verified and finally being given a flow of positive messages that people can relate to in deciding that voting YES-YES-YES is the best way forward for Scotland.
Jeez the last few posts have been a bit of a ‘marathon’.
@Macart
I know. Just when you thought it was safe “wham” there they are.
Just a “refresher”, I’m obviously talking aobut the references to sweeties… yes… good, good… or as the french would say.. “bon bon”… what a joke… “Drumstick” please…
🙂
O/t, Does any watch or listen to FMQ? Lamont’s patter is appalling. She seems to have got it into her head that she is a comedian…
@Muttley
“She seems to have got it into her head that she is a comedian…”
Well her insistence on making cuts to the SET BLOCK GRANT BUDGET is indeed laughable…
“You’se aw better make cuts the noo cause ye canny fund the stuff you’se ar awready fully funding from the set amount of money you’se awready have…”
@Scott
Aye but some of them are pure ‘midget gems’. 😀 tiddybum.
Lamont,s favorite, Empire biscuits washed down with a glass of Buckie.
@Scott, Lamont think she is a comedian in the funny way, in the kind of that particular grating Weegie style that gets on your nerves. Also, she seems not to have ever acknowledged that there is spending cuts occurring because of the previous Labour government’s fuck ups. She really is an appalling, dishonest, horrible piece of work.
That wid be the same ‘stuff’ that she and Mr Gray PLEDGED to fund themselves in the last election that ‘stuff’. Spooky what a difference a year makes in politics. One year it’s affordable the next we’re a sumthin’ fer nuthin’ society.
@Robbie,
Well it beats the Tory tipple of Mint Imperials followed by a Kinder Surprise… allegedly
Mr Davidson’s attempt at creating another Ireland situation is typical unionist divide and rule tactics. I wonder what career he will have in a future independent Scotland! The rubbish that is generated from his biased committee will give hours of fun to parties opposing him within any election scenario, post 2014.
Many other comments on this thread relate to NNS. I don’t think independence supporters should be so negative about NNS. It’s an excellent site with well thought out articles on lots of different subjects and its reveals the other side. Whilst it shows the independence side from a biased viewpoint, this is also its good point. It immediately shows how badly served Scotland is by the MSM. It’s quite frankly an eye opener.
Jen
@Macart
No its worse than that Macart. To be serious again lets look at the pledges they made before the Local Elections.
Free Wifi, Rebuilding all the Schools in Glasgow, continuing the Council tax freeze for longer than the SNP said etc… etc…
These were all policies that the SNP said were unaffordable and funnily enough they didnt happen. But we have a situation where Labour have gone from promising additional things to the public in an election to now saying that what they currently get is unaffordable in only 6 months.
@ Sneekyboy
Well it beats the Tory tipple of Mint Imperials followed by a Kinder Surprise… allegedly
LOL, Scott
I’ve stopped watching FMQs. I just couldn’t stand anymore of Gallus Allus’s feeble attempts at impersonating Chic Murray. I actually can’t look at her or hear her voice anymore without feeling slightly sick and really turned off. And it’s much the same with Ruth Davidson. Their performances come across as contrived, amateur and, quite frankly, embarrassing.
@Scott
As you say it’s very much worse than most people imagine. The media in this area have been especially complicit in covering the failure of Labour to come up with any cohesive alternate policy. So intent are they on attacking the FM and the Scottish Government we have, at this moment in time, zero idea of what the Labour party actually stands for at all in Scotland. In point of fact how do they plan to dig us out of the mess they created in the first place? We do know they are all for retention of Trident and spending our cash on a weapons system which will never be used. As far as I’m aware they have no other spending policy whatsoever and the media seems to think this is a fair state of play.
During FMQ,s today Patricia Marwick had everyone in stitches with her” question number two Ruth Lamont” introduction.”
Priceless.
@Jeannie, You have expressed it better than me.
Scott
I had the D/T.s at work today due to your post .
I sat down at tea break to check out wings only to find the filter score was off the planet and I was not allowed to view wings .
It was only when I managed to get home for lunch and I saw your post that I realised what had happened .
Your 1 post would have been enough to have wings banned from every council a dozen times over .
P.S Keep up the good work .
@ Jeannie,
I watch FMQ’s on Internet with headphones on. When Joahn speaks I click my speaker off, when FM replies I click on speaker, same with Ruth. From the FM’s reply I can pretty much guage what the question was about. Today I think the oppisition was on best behavior as their was a guest delegation in the chamber from the Australian Senat.
P.S. Wee Wullie read from the Daily Record today. He,s always good for a laugh.
Jeannie, There you go again!. First you give me a twitch over three little words. Now you’ve given me hiccups over laughing so much.
Chic Murray! You hit the bulls eye there.Lamont is a dead ringer for Chic Murray – should that be wringer?
Mind you Lamont is complex.
Her right hand movements, isn’t that a Jack Benny trademark? (my age again).
Her veracity. As posted above, Groucho “Policies? If you don’t like them i have others”.
her vision.Groucho again “Im against it’.
And then like Zorro, she appears on a Thursday midday with her rapier wit – from her script.
Am fair besotted so am ur wi hur conmplicity. Eh,should that be complexity?
Wee Ruthie just needs a cuddle – round her neck. Should that be wringer?
Rev – any chance of a non-independence and even non-political artcile about the Visit Scotland website?
link to heraldscotland.com
“Tourism agency pulls plug on web booking gateway”
“A B&B would typically pay between £500 and £1000 a year to be included on the website ”
“A commission of 10% was paid to VisitScotland by firms for each booking”
“Of Scotland’s 26,000 tourism firms, less than one-fifth were signed up to the site”
Considering 10% of Scotland’s GDP is tourism, it’s been badly served by visitscotland because mainly of the huge cost to B&Bs, self=catering, campsites etc. I think it should have been free to be registered, in perhaps a “directory”, but pay to get a bigger entry or part of the booking system, sort of thing.
@Velofello
Could well be Jack Benny…..or maybe that hand movement is a bit Tommy Cooperish – especially as she seems to think the First Minister can do whatever she thinks up….”just like that”. I could easily see her in a Tommy Cooper hat but fear she’d just wind up looking like the organ grinder’s monkey.
She certainly hasn’t got the wit of Jack Benny…….but sometimes Annabel did, with her more witty, urbane, dry sense of humour. Sadly, Ruth hasn’t any of that. Annabel was definitely a better “turn”.
Good grief, I turn my back on you all to go shopping for ONE afternoon and the entire site’s awash in biscuit puns. Fun fact: Pimp That Snack arose out of a conversation on the forum of my old videogames blog. Had no idea it was still going.
Report on NNS
Lord Advocate vindicates EU stance by the Scottish government.
Salmond 6, Labour North 0
Good to read consensus of support for NNS. Sometimes a pause for thought focuses the value of what you have.
Ian Davidson “Revels” in his own stupidity because of his “Fudge” when it comes to providing straight answers about his position on Trident.
And all this talk about a “Breakaway” has given your website a “Boost”.
OK. Putting nhs scotland independence into google, WOS comes fourth for an article with that in the title, The HTML for that has it as a title tag, and as an h2 tag. The h1 tag for that page is “Wings over Scotland”. Not surprisingly scotland wings puts this site first on google. I’m just thinking that if the site was called “Independence over Scotland” (or in) it might come up higher for Independence Scotland in Google.
Alternatively, more articles with Independence referendum Scotland and any other essential keywords will help the Google ratings over the next 2 years. At the moment Scotland Independence gives Scotsman, BBC, Telegraph, a few Guardian and just the one pro-independence yesscotland.net in the top 10.
I’m thinking that there is at least 1 poster here I recognised who has some ability in this area, mine used to be OK but not as good as it used to be – I’m working on it!. Seems to me though we need to work at the Google ratings, and maybe we can all help in some ways?
Jeannie. I thought that perhaps I was getting too touchy whenever Johann Lamont or Ruth Davidson opened their mouths to yap, but I now realise that I’m not alone after reading several of the posts. I just can’t stand listening or looking at Lamont and I just switch off. Either that or I growl and get bad tempered. Davidson’s patronising Tory tones make me want to walk into the Parliament and give her the biggest kick in the backside that I can.
But when I think back I remember feeling the same when Ian Gray (Grey?) used to speak in those similar whining sarcastic tones as Lamont, and when Annabel Goldie used those same condescending tones as Davidson uses now. Oh how I wish we could just get rid of them. The air would be so much fresher.
At risk of testing the rev’s patience, here’s a final list of chocs/biscuits that come to mind when certain politicians are mentioned: David McLetchie (TAXI), Murdo Fraser (BREAKAWAY), Henry McLeish (CURLY WURLY), Johann Lamont (FRUIT AND NUT), Ruth Davidson (WHOLE NUT), Willie Rennie (MILKY WAY), Ian Davidson (CRUNCHIE), George Osbourne (BOURNVILLE DARK), Boris Johnson (MILKY BAR), and finally, anyone more popular than a LIb Dem (PENGUIN). G’nite all.
I have problems listening to Lamont too. Sometimes I turn it down while she’s talking, but mostly I just force myself to listen. She is not only a poor performer, I find her voice and mannerisms incredibly grating. I also think she’s very script-bound and doesn’t seem to be able to engage off the cuff very well. I’m always glad when her questions are over. I don’t know who thought she’d make a good leader. She’s never around when she’s needed. She has no charisma, no charm – in fact there’s nothing positive about her whatsoever. Her recent swing to the right only adds to her problems because she has nothing hopeful or positive to say.
I see Lamont as basically a product of a certain type of Glasgow Labour activist. Sceptical of devolution, background in local government in Glasgow, where traditionally there was little opposition to Labour because of the old voting system, a hostility of the SNP verging on hatred and no or very little vision, apart from the desire to see continued Labour dominance in Scotland. That dominance is over, at least for the moment, and I can’t see Lamont offering anything remotely positive for the future.
Lamont in the debates where questions get asked will be hilarious, particularly if every household in Scotland gets a dvd or copy of the McCrone report prior to the EU elections, with a couple of recent clips from Westminster deriding Scotland added for good measure,
Imagine this being asked in a debate….!!!
Is the Labour party scared of telling people in Scotland the truth, that they may be far better off independent and therefore have to lie and cheat to give a false impression that is not true?
Or
Was the swapping of the marine boundaries in Scotland’s interest, but as Scottish labour MP’s voted for it, why was that so?
Hard to argue with.
Unionist arguments: Aero chocolate. Full of holes.
Ian Davidson is a gonk, he’s not impartial so cannot head an impartial examination of the independence motion for Westminster. I was asked last night about border control after independence, would it happen? I said no, it would not because it would benefit no one and hinder people north and south. I quoted NI and Ireland never having border controls but a Facebook friend said they had ‘approved crossings’ which I assumed were as a result of the troubles, so not at all pertinent in Scotland’s case.
On NNS, wings is a blog and NNS is (or wishes to be) a news site. The two things don’t mix. I look at NNS in the same way as I look at the BBC, you can (or should) be able to comment on the opinion pieces but not the news sections.
And for NNS that’s probably how it should be because you don’t want to dilute factual reporting with a lot of off-topic and confusing chitchat. What they need to do is properly delineate between news and opinion and just switch off comments for the former and allow any and all for the latter.
I don’t really comment very often any where so don’t get exercised about NNS and their moderation policy, I do understand (I think) what they’re trying to do and also that, not everyone is interested in constant reiterations of something someone else has already said far more eloquently, a lot of folks should step away from the keyboard more often.
Which is what I’m going to do now, fortunately…
Fair enough pa, but i’m not moderated on NNS, i’m banned. Despite repeated emails asking why, i’ve never had a reply.
Meanwhile, i’ve decided to vote NO as i quite like Joy Division.
link to scotsman.com
@Juteman: But if love will tear us apart, isn’t Ian Davidson going about things right if he wants us to stick together? (Joy Division + Roxy Music, way to go me!)
Juteman,
I’m banned too. I think quite a few of us that comment here are banned there.
Maybe NNS doesn’t appreciate good taste in music? 🙂
I have posted to NNS what I genuinely believe to be benign but solid arguments or points, using not a single defamatory word or expletive or any other word that could be considered offensive but am no longer able to post there.
Consequently, I have decided to avoid that website just like I have decided never to buy or write to either The Herald or The Scotsman.
I appreciate some think this may be dividing the message but I really dont care anymore. The bitter childish rants by the unionists have left me exhausted and indifferent.
I shall vote YES in 2 years and spend the time between now and then attempting to convince everyone I meet to do the right thing. Convincing people using easily written words on a page on the internet is a complete waste of effort and time.
It does allow points to be shared and knowledge to be disseminated but you’ll never win with print. You have to speak the words into someone’s ear.
Disagree? Explain then why the USA just spent 2 billion dollars campaigning on TV and in auditoriums these past 12 months.
Keep the faith G.
The US spent billions on the presidential election yet it seems only ~50% turned out to vote. Climbed from 50% in the bush years to 57% in 2008 when Obama ran a more positive campaign and people started to feel some hope.
That’s negative campaigning for you and a big reason why the union will lose. If they fight negative while the Yes fight positive, a strong Y will be a foregone conclusion.
God, I hope you’re right!
I suspect NNS has been infiltrated. It has become like a diseased limb. Cut it off.