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The fireworks factory has not exploded

Posted on October 15, 2020 by

We’ve had another Freedom Of Information response from the Scottish Government.

Here it is.

So it turns out the thing we can all see happening, the thing anyone can click on and observe for themselves, simply isn’t happening.

So when the Scottish Government publishes a document containing the phrase “For clarity, the name of the First Minister’s Chief of Staff is Liz Lloyd”, and yet you cannot find that document by searching on its Publications website for the word “clarity”, or the phrase “Chief of Staff”, or the name “Liz Lloyd”, and even though all of those terms DO work for finding other documents but not for this one, that simply isn’t happening.

And even though scores of other documents also fail to show up in search results, and ALL of those documents, by the most astonishing coincidence, happen to concern the inquiry into allegations about Alex Salmond, it simply isn’t happening.

You only THINK you can see it. Click any of those links above, right now. The thing you thought you saw when you clicked them? Didn’t happen. You imagined it. There is no man behind the curtain. Please go away. Please go away. Oh God, please go away.



We should note that we also raised this matter with the Scottish Information Commissioner, and had received this reply some time earlier:

“Dear Rev. Campbell,

I write with reference to my email below, in response to your concern regarding the Scottish Government’s FOI disclosure log. As set out in my earlier email, I have made some preliminary inquiries in relation to your concerns.

In response to these initial inquiries, I have been informed by the Scottish Government that, in summary:

– No action has been taken to conceal publications from the Scottish Government website search engine.

– The website search engine requires individual search tags to be input as material is uploaded to the system.

– The website search engine uses these search tags to identify and return information in response to searches.

– Normal practice when uploading FOI disclosures is for search tags to refer to the nature of the information requested, rather than the names of individuals involved in any particular case.

The Scottish Government notes that limitations of their website search mean that this differs from the functionality of a search engine such as Google, which allows for text searches of entire documents to be carried out. The Scottish Government also notes, however, that the documents in question are also retrievable via external search engines using a range of relevant keywords.

In the process of carrying out these inquiries I note that you have separately made an FOI request to the Scottish Government in relation to this matter. This is referenced on your website, while the Scottish Government have also indicated that they are preparing a response to an FOI request on this issue.

With this in mind, I would suggest that the most appropriate route forward from this point would be for you to conclude your current FOI request to the Scottish Government. If, at the end of this process, you are dissatisfied with the Scottish Government’s response for any reason, you would be able to take this to the Commissioner on appeal.

This would ensure that any inquiries we carry out at this time do not have the effect of prejudicing any future FOI appeal you make to the Commissioner.

In the process of investigating any future appeal, the Commissioner may consider whether it is appropriate to comment on any broader issues relating to the FOI practice of the Scottish Government.

I hope this information is helpful. Further information on the process of making a formal appeal to the Commissioner is available on our website.


Paul Mutch”

It’s clearly complete nonsense, but Mr Mutch is merely the messenger.

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  1. 15 10 20 12:50

    The fireworks factory has not exploded | The New York Press News Agency

  2. 15 10 20 12:57

    The fireworks factory has not exploded | speymouth

  3. 15 10 20 15:52

    The fireworks factory has not exploded –

427 to “The fireworks factory has not exploded”

  1. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘It is not possible for content editors…’ etc.

    That’s a pretty definitive statement.

    Yet another one that could come back to bite them on the arse.

  2. Blackhack says:

    Ostriches with their heads in the sand comes to mind.

  3. newburghgowfer says:

    We really need to exhume the body of Billy Smart pretty damn quick.
    His services are badly needed at Scots Gov HQ to take charge !!

  4. Effijy says:

    That makes life so much easier.
    We can save fortunes on Court cases and prisons etc
    If we follow that example.
    Just ask the person committing a crime if they think it’s a crime
    and when they say it isn’t, you can forget all about it.

    Does F.O.I mean F*** Off Idiot?

  5. Famous15 says:

    Is there any element of jigsaw identification limitations and possible sanctions involved?

    The names are now out there for many more informed than me.

    No longer a member but can see on Twitter “good” embers are very unhappy and wish help in identifying the woke entryists to avoid supporting them.

    The dream is flickering back into life!

  6. Bob Mack says:

    Crazily,this reminds me of that old Abbot and Costello script.

    “Who’s on first base_____etc”

    I don’t know how you have the tenacity to continue Rev.

  7. Ruglonian says:

    Government gaslighting? Gtf

  8. Sharny Dubs says:

    Ferk moa it’s worse than LALALALALALALA

  9. Astonished says:

    The membership are become much more aware of the wokeratti. This is good.

    Soon they will be seething at the opportunities lost.

    NS has one chance. Call indyref 2 as an emergency measure. Vote in november and job done.

    May I state now I will never forgive the wokeratti for their conduct.

    The lies must stop. Is there anyone honest working for the Scottish Government communications department ? Is liz lloyd in charge ?

    Has mr murrell, angus macleod and liz lloyd resigned yet ?

    If not -why not ?

  10. Andrew Davidson says:

    This kind of luddite, caveman talk from power reminds me of when I was in court charged with letting someone drive my vehicle without insurance. I’d called up a well known insurer to get this person added to my insurance. Their system had failed.

    The judge said “do you honestly expect me to believe you thought you could change your insurance over the phone?” (This was in the 90s. A well known car insurance mob had a phone with wheels as their logo at the time)

    “Do you honestly expect me to believe content editors can hide specific content from search engines?”

  11. Kenny says:

    Gie them enough rope..

  12. CalumCarr says:

    The SIC response contains this:”The website search engine requires individual search tags to be input as material is uploaded to the system“.

    Have you asked (or should you ask) in an FOI for the individual search tags which were input for each of the unfindable FOI responses?

  13. Stuart MacKay says:

    The response from the Scottish Information Commissioner is sort of correct, sort of.

    There’s a big difference between the keywords or tags that describe the type of document and an index built from all the words in a document.

    Keywords are generally used to describe the type of document, e.g. “meeting minutes”, “finance committee”, “annual report”. These are used to group related documents together. It’s the same thing as the list of tags that appear on the top right of this page.

    Then there’s the work of the search engines which take all the words of the documents and build an index showing which document contains the words and where they occur. When you build the index you usually leave out words like “if”, “but” since you don’t want these to be indexed as they are so common and are not helpful.

    It would appear that Google is able to build a good index of the publicly available documents but the Scottish Government is not. Either that, or their list of “do not index” words include a few others like “Salmond” and “inquiry”.

    Full text search of documents is relatively easy. The tools are freely available. Building good indexes takes a little work but it’s well understood.

    It sounds like the government’s search engine is not that good, which is a little hard to understand since it seems to work well in other areas.

    It also looks like the information commissioner needs a little education on the difference between keywords and full text search. They are dramatically different things and I am somewhat surprised, in 2020, that that distinction is, apparently, lost on him.

  14. Breeks says:

    The Scottish Information Commissioner sounds just like an Ombudsman, and trust me, that isn’t a compliment.

    Useless, patronising, and only there to wilfully obfuscate your complaint until you give up in exasperation, then they can swan off to the next poor sucker’s complaint, as if they’ve dispensed justice, when in truth, they’ve deliberately subverted it.

    Why do you think all the Banks, Tory Quangos and privatised Utilities have Regulators and Ombudsmen in their complaint protocols? Here’s a clue, it isn’t to protect you the consumer.

  15. Paul robbins says:

    This is beginning to look like one of the most successful subversions of a political party in history.

  16. Stan Broadwood says:

    I had a brilliant dream the other night.

    Sturgeon was up a very high ladder cleaning her gutters, she over stretched and came crashing to the ground.

    Landing head first, she died instantly.

    Then like all good dreams, you waken up and find that the little bastard is still alive and still arrogantly ignoring the voices of the Scottish people.

    She doesn’t walk on water, and very soon the world she lives in will come crashing down around her.

  17. Clapper57 says:

    @ Stan Broadwood @ 1.12pm

    “Landing head first, she died instantly Then like all good dreams, you waken up and find that the little bastard is still alive”

    That is a really awful thing to write and contributes nothing to the debate on here.

  18. Breastplate says:

    Stan Broadwood,
    You are and have been deliberately provocative in what you input here. I don’t know for certain what your agenda is but I can guess.

  19. Derek Rogers says:

    The FOI response is technically correct – they don’t interfere with the search mechanism, they just don’t tag those items as “Alex Salmond” or whatever. Can we get a leaked copy of the taggers’ standing instructions?

  20. Davy Smith says:

    Stan; a lot of us on here are fecked of with Mrs Murrell and her apparent betrayal of her country and people but I think that’s a ladder to far in this case mate.

    Messrs Murrell, Smith or McDonald on the other hand…

  21. holymacmoses says:

    Mutch writes:

    Normal practice when uploading FOI disclosures is for search tags to refer to the nature of the information requested, rather than the names of individuals involved in any particular case.

    The film ‘Class Action’ comes to mind when I read about these sorts of shenanigans being applied to the programming of a search engine.

  22. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

    It seems pretty obvious that information is being selectively suppressed. If I am alarmed it is because the scot gov and Information Office are both so inept that they cannot cover it up even remotely convincingly.It doesn’t so much speak of a great powerful state machine swatting all those pesky ordinary truth-seeking folk, it smacks of a deep institutional misunderstanding of roles, a bunker mentality, and an intellectual and integrity deficit. It is pathetic as much as it is sinister. Behaving like the MET when accused of institutional racism, they doctor reports like naughty children caught filching sweets from the tuck shop.
    And this is our country.

  23. Robert Graham says:

    Day and Daily in cosy little offices or at the present time possibly working from home a whole army of little beavers working away producing absolute shite when asked what shit they are producing a whole Labyrinth magically appears with one aim to confuse and frustrate the questioner ,
    I doubt if a simple question like ” have you had lunch today ” you would be lucky to get a simple coherent reply ,
    And the Mugs the Scottish Taxpayers are funding this Farce , open transparent government my Arse.
    As has been commented above FOI means just that Duck off Idiot it should be accompanied by Laughter and look some dope what’s a answer yeh again more sniggering and laughter

  24. robbo says:

    Clapper57 says:
    15 October, 2020 at 1:18 pm
    @ Stan Broadwood @ 1.12pm

    “Landing head first, she died instantly Then like all good dreams, you waken up and find that the little bastard is still alive”

    That is a really awful thing to write and contributes nothing to the debate on here.

    Breastplate says:
    15 October, 2020 at 1:26 pm
    Stan Broadwood,
    You are and have been deliberately provocative in what you input here. I don’t know for certain what your agenda is but I can guess.


    That’s because he’s not here for the benefit of INDY. He uses NS as the hate tool because a lot of Indy folk are scunnered with certain directional aspects of her policies and Indy direction, woke stuff and whatever.

    No matter who i agree with or do not agree with on here i know 95% are on Indy side. Stan the man and few others are not and are a fraud IMHO. You’ll never see Stan at a Indy rally unless he’s standing next to mankie jack.

  25. Bob W says:

    My son, an IT professional has informed me that the cms used by scotgov is

    Their FOI response appears to refer to another less comprehensive cms system used for FOI curation.

  26. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It sounds like the government’s search engine is not that good”

    Stop making excuses for them. It’s perfectly good if you want to find any document that ISN’T about the Salmond inquiry. A random text search will return pretty much anything EXCEPT docs relating to that.

  27. Bob W says:


    To be clear that system has full text search built in.

  28. holymacmoses says:

    I was idling through the Government site today and saw this helpful advice on how to use the FOI search engine.

    from the response

    In response to your first and second request, while our aim is to provide information whenever possible, in this instance the costs of locating, retrieving and providing the information requested would exceed the upper cost limit of £600. The reason for this is that to locate and retrieve that information we would need to conduct a search of all of the records of the Scottish Government. Under section 12 of FOISA public authorities are not required to comply with a request for information if the authority estimates that the cost of complying would exceed the upper cost limit, which is currently set at £600 by Regulations made under section 12.

    You may, however, wish to consider reducing the scope of your request in order that the costs can be brought below £600. For example, you could specify names of people whose correspondence to the Permanent Secretary you are particularly interested</i) in or restrict your request to a smaller time frame, as this would allow us to limit the searches that would require to be conducted. You may also find it helpful to look at the Scottish Information Commissioner’s ‘Tips for requesting information under FOI and the EIRs’ on his website at:

  29. NeilyBoy says:

    My first prediction is that when the facade finally crumbles, a Get Out of jail Free Card will be played for this lie and all the other lies uttered by the government and its minions on the Salmond prosecution. That card will read “We didn’t want to lie, but were legally bound to do so, in order to protect the identities of the complainants”.
    My second prediction is that this card will turn out to be recognised and accepted throughout the political and legal establishment.

  30. kapelmeister says:

    The SG must think FOI means Freedom of Inquiring.
    i.e. You’re free to ask, but they’re not under any obligation.

  31. The Dissident says:

    “It is not possible for content editors using the content management system to suppress or delist content…”

    But I imagine that it is possible for system administrators (or their bosses) to manually browse the document archive and manipulate the properties of documents therein.

  32. Robert Louis says:

    What cover up? There is no cover up. Oh…that cover up? No, that cover up doesn’t really exist, despite you clearly showing it to us. Any further questions?

    Corrupt as corrrupt can be, the SNP Scottish Government which Nicola Sturgeon controls (for now).

  33. Beaker says:

    The title of the article is quite apt.

    Firework factories are built with very thick walls and very thin roofs. Once you get through the wall – BOOM.

  34. Stuart MacKay says:

    @Rev. Stuart Campbell

    Except you missed the rest of the sentence:

    …which is a little hard to understand since it seems to work well in other areas.

    The clear implication is that the search engine is working as intended. Pity you chose to ignore that part.

  35. Bob W says:

    The website search engine requires individual search tags to be input as material is uploaded to the system

    This response to the SIC from scotgov and other statements related to tags, would appear to be obfuscation, as the cms system used does support full text search.

  36. OT., i still think theEU is not in our interest look at the way they have dealt with Catalonia .during ref.,1 they spoke out against. Scottish independence as I have said you are getting rid of 1master to get 27others some freedom that it is more captivity in my opinion

  37. Stuart MacKay says:

    The Dissident

    Programmers are lazy by nature. There’s no way documents are going to browsed. There’ll be a list containing “stuff we don’t want indexed” and then a button to reindex all the documents. With thousands or hundreds of thousands of documents finding stuff is then going to be a search for a very, very small needle in a very, very large haystack.

    It’s the poor sod who wants to prove malfeasance that will have to browse all the documents to prove that words black list exists.

  38. CameronB Brodie says:

    OT sorry, but can we please try to maintain a scientific typography of political outlooks within Scottish politics?

    WOKE supports inclusive and ethical educational and legal practice, so WOKE is good.

    McWOKE supports the denial of science and totalitarian government, so McWOKE is bad. Mkay!

    Mohanty and Cultural Logic
    The Epistemic Status of Cultural Identity: On Beloved and the Postcolonial Condition

  39. Bob Mack says:

    Just heard Margaret Ferried faces no action by police because she travelled before regulations came into force.
    Suck on that Humza

  40. Christian Schmidt says:

    I think the response Paul Mutch is pretty ok. He actually answers the question as to why these FOI answers can’t be found. He then passes the ball back to the Scottish Government. And he reserves the right to get involved again. What more could he have done?

    On the substance, that’s a nasty trick the SG has played. They are not allowed to actively hide things, but not to undertake an action that just happens to have a similar effect is something different. Obviously this decision wasn’t done by the clerk that actually types in the search tags, but getting proof that someone senior gave instructions may be difficult…

  41. Strathy says:

    From something that simply isn’t happening to something that simply didn’t happen –

    ‘A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “Once it became clear that the downgraded awards risked young people, particularly from working-class backgrounds, losing faith in education, the deputy First Minister instructed all downgraded awards to be withdrawn and new awards issued based on teacher or lecturer judgement.”’

    So not as revealed in the Priestley Report that: –

    ‘…. the education secretary John Swinney was warned about the likelihood of the moderation system disproportionately affecting poorer pupils in July, but did nothing to act.’

    And definitely not as everyone remembers; that Swinney refused to change the moderated results until the Green Party threatened to support an opposition motion of no confidence in him.

    There is only one true version of history – that of the Scottish Government spokesperson.

  42. Robert Graham says:

    Blair @ 2:59

    Agreed the EU will not come to the rescue if it doesn’t suit their purpose or give them something they want or need , The English establishment have way more influence than we ever would have being a small nation a small nation with a population less than London we are a blip on the horizon

    At best the EU might see us as leverage to piss off the English establishment during their about to collapse trade negotiations .

  43. Terry says:

    Some days it really gets to you. The full enormity of the corruption and plotting that’s gone on. Not only with regards to Alex, but to Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray, Mark Hirst and Manny Singh. Plus of course yourself. And it’s been beyond just the SNP as you have highlighted – there’s a stinking mess in the houses of the powerful in Scotland.

    What have Alex and co got in common? I’d say it is the honest pursuit of independence – which is WHY they have been vilified, blocked, prosecuted and even jailed. An attack on them means an attack on all of us and while a fair few of the now 58% think it doesn’t apply to them – well wakey wakey it does. Cos this lot in power have no intention of going for independence and by their very actions (ask Martin keatings) actively attempt to block it. Currently bugging me is Blowhard Blackford. “The people of Scotland, blah blah, blah shall not be taken out of Europe bla blah.” Aye right, Ian. The lot of them have taken us for mugs. Well not anymore. They have done it for riches and for glory – that ain’t in the script.

    And yet many of us here campaigned for this lot and donated money. Oh how times change. When the Alex stuff started coming out most of us were incredulous and knew it wasn’t true but, horribly, how many of the local SNP mandarins and lower level politicals hinted at murky stuff, pooh poohed his show and labelled him “yesterday’s man”? You were left with a tiny doubt that as they knew him then could there be a glimmer of truth in it? As we all know now it was worse than just a smear campaign – it was a most awful political conspiracy.

    Well hell mend the lot of them. It’s been bad enough for us lot of activists these past two years, God knows how it’s been for Alex and his family. And on top of all that now we have to come to terms with Nicola’s part in all of this. Thank God for you and Craig in particular giving us a heads up. It’s still hard to get your head round but facts are facts.

    As as for Alex – I hope he wipes the floor with all of them. Although I’m pretty confident whatever he chooses to do he will do for the cause of independence.

  44. Abalha says:

    In reply to Bob Mack at 323pm yes the Sky News report below.

    If as seems to be the case her travelling home to Scotland on that Tuesday morning was within parliamentary guidance then she may face no sanctions from the Standards Ctte, hence no recall petition, she carries on as an MP.

  45. vlad (not that one) says:

    Apologies, CBB, but I had a moment to spare so and I looked up the link you provided at 15:17 above.

    I am afraid I got no further than “For a woman to read as a woman is not to repeat an identity or an experience that is given but to play a role she constructs with reference to her identity as a woman, which is also a construct, so that the series can continue: a woman reading as a woman reading as a woman. The noncoincidence reveals an interval, a division within woman or within any reading subject and the ‘experience’ of that subject”.

    Any chance of executive summaries to accompany links?

  46. Stan Broadwood says:


    The Sturgeonistas want to try and control what type of dreams you have now.

    Get a grip.

    Because Sturgeon controls your minds, doesn’t mean that you have the power to control mine.

    Where’s CamB when you need him.

    Are the Sturgeon cult into mind control now CamB???

  47. Stan Broadwood says:

    If Martin Luther King is allowed to dream, then surely I’m allowed to dream.

  48. CameronB Brodie says:

    The EU can’t support Scotland’s democracy until we deal with Westminster ourselves. The EU has no legal powers to intervene to stop Scotland’s cultural eradication. Only we can do that, as our government appears incapable, and our legal Establishment are institutionally BritNat in outlook, so hostile towards the universal legal principle of “equality in law”, and the principles of open democracy. 🙁

  49. The Dissident says:

    @Stuart MacKay

    Indeed, by ‘manually’ I meant a method outside the standard function of the CMS.

    And, BTW, I wouldn’t overstate the laziness of anyone who has been appropriately incentivised.

  50. Breastplate says:

    The person that has written that piece is in need of a map and a torch to extricate themselves from their own @rsehole.

  51. Republicofscotland says:

    Sounds like they’re being intentionally obstructive yet again.

    Meanwhile the rules around defamation in Scotland are to be as they call it simplified, which I interpret in the column in the National newspaper as allowing slander a bit more leeway, and permitting journalists and newspapers to do the same,as long as they’re a responsible tabloid, whatever that means.

  52. vlad (not that one) says:

    Breastplate @ 16:04
    That particular quote is not by CBB, but from Culler, Jonathan. On Deconstruction: Theory and Criticism after Structuralism. Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press, 1982. as quoted in the linked treatise by Satya P. Mohanty.

    My point was just that for me, at least, life is a mite short to wade through 20+ pages of stuff like that and try to discern what, if anything, is relevant to – say – Scottish political reality.

  53. Balaaargh says:

    If the SG had a proper eDiscovery platform (something like OpenText) internally then all that indexing can be done without the need for manual keywords tags.

  54. Graeme says:

    Bob Mack says:
    15 October, 2020 at 3:23 pm

    Just heard Margaret Ferried faces no action by police because she travelled before regulations came into force.
    Suck on that Humza

    I’m glad to hear there will no police prosecution, the police are already over the top investigating trumpted up charges against innocent independence supporters and as far as Margaret is concerned what she did was wrong but no worse than what others have done and got away with, she’s only human, at least now she knows who her friends are

  55. CameronB Brodie says:

    That one might have been a bit OTT. 🙂

    I was pointing to what a post-colonial perspective involves, as I’m trying to make folk aware that our identities have been colonised by culture and tradition. This undermines our connection with reality and impairs our social cognition, which makes us more vulnerable and susceptible to abusive and authoritarian politics and law. Many of us have simply lost sight of what makes beliefs TRUE, so have become less able to defend their/our biological integrity.

    It takes a bit of effort and a critical approach to law and politics, but we can all decolonise our minds if we make the effort. So I hope the Justice Minister is paying attention, as I’m pretty sure the Lord Advocate is simply not interested in supporting justice or democracy. ;(


    JURISPRUDENCE in effect, wrote the late Professor Vinogradoff in 1920, must face the problems of law in its own way by such help as it can derive from those branches of special knowledge which have a direct bearing on legal questions.82 He then devoted four chapters to the topics: “Law and Logic,” “Law and Psychology,” “Law and Social Science,” and “Law and Political Theory,” indicating some of the possible inter-actions under each respective head.83

    Two assumptions behind this treatment seem to the writer to provide the nearest approach to a satisfactory basis for redetermining the province of jurisprudence in the twentieth century. They are: first, that jurisprudence is the examination of law in the light of other disciplines than the law;84 and second, that jurisprudence must make its own classification for legal purposes of the fruits of such examination.

    A. Jurispudence is the Examination of the Law in the Light of Other Disciplines

    Jurisprudence, in the present writer’s hypothesis, is the lawyer’s extroversion. It is the lawyer’s examination of the precepts, ideals, and techniques of the law in the light derived from present knowledge in disciplines other than the law. It is an attempt, which must always remain imperfect, to fulfil for the law the object strikingly posed by the late Mr. Justice Holmes of showing “the rational connection between your fact and the frame of the Universe. To be master of any branch of knowledge you must master those which lie next to it.”85

  56. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m begging to loose any respect I once had for you, as you appear keen to mock that which you lack understanding of. How is such narrowness helpful?

  57. Breastplate says:

    I made it clear to you a long time ago that I find it very difficult to take opinions of students of social sciences as seriously as they do themselves.
    It is highly subjective and in my opinion shouldn’t be allowed to call themselves sciences.

    As I’ve said before, exact sciences are more my bag.

  58. CameronB Brodie says:

    BEGINING obvs.

    Foucault and Law: Towards a Sociology of Law as Governance

  59. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, but you are a bit of an ignorant bigot then.

  60. CameronB Brodie says:

    Away and educate yourself please. TA.

    Social Epistemology

    Philosopher and sociologist of science Steve Fuller on collective and individualistic nature of knowledge, elitist knowledge production, and distinctive features of academic knowledge

  61. James Che. says:

    OT, but relative to independence topic, I welcome anyone here is to be more specific,
    This is my understanding of a vote, it is either for something or an alternative,
    There are votes for local elections.
    There are votes general elections,
    There was a vote to join the European market, which evolved into the EU?
    There was a vote for devolution,
    There was a vote to stay in uk 2014,
    We’re talking about voting to end the treaty Of the union.
    Leading up to the big question.
    I am looking for the vote where the Scots people voted to join the treaty of the union.
    Where is the confirmation that the nation of Scots voted to jointhe treaty of the union.
    The reality and fact , is that the sovereign people never ever voted to join that treaty at any time in over 300 years,
    That makes the 2014 referendum a scam, it only digs us in deeper by not recognising that.

  62. Breastplate says:

    I know that quote wasn’t from CBB.
    It was from Toni Morrison’s Beloved.

    I’m sure she is a very nice person but as I’ve said, students or even professors can have access to my critical thoughts and that I think much of what is shoved down our throats nowadays is the equivalent of a turd wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

  63. Breastplate says:

    You’ve just posted me another link, that’s great, it serves me right I suppose.

  64. vlad (not that one) says:

    CBB @16:27
    Thanks, point taken.

    I confess I am genuinely puzzled why even now no more than 58% (if) seem to support indy. Brainwashing, I imagine, but I still do not comprehend how a sentient being can be brainwashed against their will.

    Perhaps it boils down to catching them young, as Jesuits supposedly used to say.

  65. Hatuey says:

    Is it possible the documents you are requesting are scanned images rather than editable/searchable text based documents, for one reason or another, and that they can only be found through search using keyword tags?

    I doubt it but maybe that’s where the deception lies – they have deliberately not converted them using OCR.

  66. Breastplate says:

    My apologies, you are correct with your reference, it is indeed from Culler.

  67. Daisy Walker says:

    OT – from – todays essay re yesterdays important meeting between Boris and the EU…

    Speaking after the call, von der Leyen reiterated the EU position. “The EU is working on a deal, but not at any price”, she said, adding that “conditions must be right” on fisheries, level playing field and governance for the EU to sign an agreement.

    If, as is likely, talks do resume, fishing will be the key element.

    In an indication of a possible opening, though, Barnier has told MEPs on Tuesday that Downing Street needed to offer Scottish fishermen an opportunity to develop fisheries in their own waters, in light of the growing independence sentiment in Scotland.

    For everyone’s info.

  68. CameronB Brodie says:

    Our capacity to recognise authentic culture, and ourselves, has been impaired and impoverished through culture, and a traditional veneration of the resulting pseudo-culture. Which is a bit of a mind twist. 😉

    I might take your hostility to my perspective more seriously, if I though you understand cultural structuration, social cognition, or the epistemology of knowledge production. Sorry, but that doesn’t appear to be the case, and that’s just a fact of life you’ll need to come to terms with.

    Societal Studies, Vol 4, No 8 (2010)
    The Significance of the Sociological Approach to Law for the Development of Jurisprudence

  69. Republicofscotland says:


    Lord Keen’s replacement, the new Advocate General for Scotland is Keith Stewart QC.

  70. Joe says:

    “Landing head first, she died instantly Then like all good dreams, you waken up and find that the little bastard is still alive”

    That was funny. I also agree with general sentiment.

  71. Breastplate says:

    I’m not at all hostile to social sciences, they have their place but it’s clear that we disagree on their importance.

  72. Stan Broadwood says:

    Bastards of the Beeb News headlines tells us, “The Capital” will go into new lockdown restrictions from tomorrow.

    They don’t say it is the Capital City of England, or The English Capital.

    In their own arrogant English way, call it “THE” Capital.

    So are they saying London is the Capital of Scotland?

    Are they saying London is the Capital of the UK?

    I didn’t even know the UK had a capital city.

    Or us it what I suspect it to be, that the English just take it for granted that their English Capital City is also the capital for the whole of the UK?

    And anyway, who gives a shit what is happening in another foreign country’s capital city?

    I couldn’t care less what is happening in england.

  73. Joe says:


    From a purely selfish perspective you should care whats going on in England.

    The less livable England becomes for the English the more no voters move to Scotland.

  74. holymacmoses says:

    I see Dani Garavelli is still at it. However one can see a shift in tone here.

  75. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not trying to force you to believe what you don’t want to, but it appears you don’t understand what ‘social science’ is, or how ‘it’ relates to the law. Or why I’m able to hand the Lord Advocate his arse in public.

    Tilburg Law School Research Paper No. 11/2017
    Rule of Law and Legal Epistemology


    Against the positivistic conception of law, restricted to sources of law, it is argued that doctrine and other materials are also relevant. Legal argumentation is based on legal knowledge, which is constructed not only with legal authorities but also with epistemic authorities, in line with the epistemological recognition of testimony as source of knowledge. This approach can accommodate the authority of non-binding texts, thereby contributing to a legal method for a multi-level legal order.

    legal epistemology, legal method, multi-level legal order, epistemic authority, testimony, positivism, sources of law, precedent

  76. ClanDonald says:

    Are you able to do another FOI asking for a list of the search tags on specific Salmond documents as well as a list for other documents that do appear easily in a search?

    Then compare them to see if fewer (or any) tag words have been used for the Salmond documents or if totally obvious ones have been missed out.

  77. Breastplate says:

    There you go again, because somebody doesn’t agree with you they don’t understand.
    Sociology or philosophy for example are to me at any rate sciences the same way art or history is.

    I wouldn’t paint a vase the same way as Michaelangelo or interpret history the same way Neil Oliver or David Starkey do.

    Epistemic justification allows me to say so.

  78. crazycat says:

    @ James Che at 4.43

    There was a vote to join the European market, which evolved into the EU?

    No, although a lot of people think there was, and even claim to have participated in it!

    Edward Heath’s government negotiated the UK’s membership of the EEC/Common Market in 1972, and it began on January 1, 1973. There was no referendum, although the Conservative’s manifesto for the 1970 general election will have included the policy.

    Heath then lost the February 1974 GE (and the one in October of that year), and Harold Wilson’s government proceeded with a referendum in 1975 about whether to continue membership, or withdraw.

    After early polls suggested that the vote would be a majority for No (withdrawal), in the event Yes won comfortably. Whether Heath chose not to have a referendum because that was not the normal way of reaching decisions (in a “representative democracy” – ha!) or because he thought he would lose (tendency for the status quo to be favoured), I have no idea.

  79. Stan Broadwood says:


    It is a joy to watch London sliding into the Thames.

    And a joy to watch the rest of the English economy sink without trace.

    I don’t think enough englanders would come north to tip the balance in an INDY Ref.

    I think you have to be resident here for so many years before you get a vote.

    So hopefully if we can get shot of Sturgeon, we can get on with holding our referendum before the southern invasion.

    Just enjoy the collapse of England while it is happening.

    Scotland has a good chance of recovery, for England there is none.


  80. CameronB Brodie says:

    I know how to support democracy through science and law, as I know a bit about epistemology and the philosophy of science. Which I thought I done not too bad a job of proving. Where as, you appear to simply be claiming intellectual superiority and supremacy of knowledge. That’s not a particularly good look given you provide no evidence to support your opinion. That’s the sort of stuff you’d expect from the NEC. Mkay? 😉

    Truth, Reason and Justice: Epistemology and Politics in Evidence Discourse

  81. Joe says:

    @Stan Broadwood

    So long as you register to live here (legally) and are 16 you can vote. There are no other requirements including any time requirements

  82. John Digsby says:

    What a pleasant chap you are Stan. No matter the faults of the UK Government, wishing ill on our neighbours is a bit shit

  83. Famous15 says:

    The Tan and Joe tag team winning hearts and minds and blood and soil?

    As my granddaughter says “Doubt it”

    Mischief for sure and disgusting with it.

    OK let your bile spew out Stan you bobbinjay.

  84. Gregor says:

    No way in hell can ‘This SNP’ and its ‘new norms’ sustain such an absurd and untenable position over such elementary and fundamentally relevant issues.

    In the mean time, we all suffer from being held in the dark…

  85. John Digsby says:


    Also, if you didn’t know the UK capital is London, then you’re a bit of a pillock.

  86. Breastplate says:

    You’re deflecting now CBB,
    Telling everybody that they are inferior is your thing.

  87. Joe says:


    Care to mention the most disgusting thing I have said?

  88. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry for the “ignorant bigot” snark, I’m just a bit ratty today. There is no crime in being ignorant, as that is how we are born into the world. Opposition to an alternative opinion only becomes bigoted when ignorance is accompanied with prejudice and hostility. You’re clearly not unintelligent, though you do appear somewhat prejudiced against post-positivist social science, which I don’t really think you comprehend the nature of. Or perhaps I’ve simply not made a particularly good job of communicating a post-colonial position, which is informed through contemporary science and legal theory.

    The Epistemological
    Foundations of Law

  89. Famous15 says:


    Get lost

  90. James Che. says:

    Cheers crazycat, I thought someone would remember better than I did.

  91. Joe says:


    So that’s an attack on character but not on the actual substance of any opinion I have expressed.

    How original

  92. CameronB Brodie says:

    Please get over yourself. TA.

    On the Epistemology of (In)Justice:
    Oppositional Consciousness and Social Critique

  93. Albaman says:

    I’m content to wait and watch developments, with an opened mind.
    But there is a recurring picture with in my mind, and that is of an office within Whitehall, and the occupants within that office are all sitting with satisfied smug smiles .

  94. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Unfortunately Humza may have the last laugh @Graeme says at 4:26 pm and @Bob Mack says at 3:23 pm

    Margaret Ferried faces no action by the Metropolitan Police but they have referred it to Police Scotland ‘for consideration’ and based an the “Ferrier should resign” we have seen from the FM I suspect she’ll get hauled over the coals here (and that will allow a recall to be triggered as well)!

    In a statement issued on Thursday afternoon, the Met said: “On detailed examination of this new legislation, and following legal advice, it was concluded that this regulation is applicable only after the 28th September 2020. In this case the test occurred prior to the 29th September 2020 and therefore the regulation does not apply.

    “As such, there will be no further action in relation to this investigation from the Metropolitan police. We are in liaison with Police Scotland and have referred the matter to them for consideration.”

  95. Joe says:

    Anyway I will leave with this thought:

    If anyone can be eligible to vote on the future of our nation after simply registering as living here and being over 16 it means that from a political point of view actually being Scottish means nothing in Scotland.

    If you are happy with this you are not actually a nationalist.

  96. Hatuey says:

    I can’t be the only one that thinks there’s something odd about the timing of this poll that suggests 58% support for independence. Talk about throwing old Nic a lifeline…

    Be in no doubt that the British State is very concerned about the situation in Scotland right now and absolutely would prefer that Nicola remains in position. How far would they go to keep her afloat? Who knows? What we do know is that British politics is as corrupt as you get.

    Polling is a business. 8 out of 10 cats know that. If you want a poll that supports the idea that eating sawdust helps with constipation, give a polling company several thousand pounds and you’ll have one within 7 days. I can’t think of an idea that couldn’t be supported using statistics and polls, depending on how you frame things and rig sampling.

  97. susanXX says:

    Oh god. It’s the CBB show already.

  98. Dan says:

    @ CamBB

    Are those “old” social science studies and opinions still relevant in the context of today’s “new normal”, where the real life diversity of social interactions are being so highly restricted?

    With society creeping into evermore insular territories as individuals gravitate towards and exist in bubbles shared only with folk of similar outlook, it means the lack of diversity of thought and range of opinion they are ever exposed to and have to consider is diminished, thus rendering their social knowledge and opinions formed from their limited experiences rather lacking and one dimensional in the overall scheme of things.

  99. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hope folk don’t think I’m the dogmatic sort, it’s just that I know a bit about the epistemology of knowledge production, and the vital role it pays in supporting the potential for open government and inclusive, sustainable, democracy.

    Northwestern University School of Law
    Public Law and Legal Theory Papers, Year 2001 Paper 33

    Naturalized Epistemology and the Law of

  100. Sharny Dubs says:

    Hatuey @6:56

    Not jus the timing but the result tantalisingly close to 60 but awwww not quite

  101. Ron Maclean says:

    @susanXX 7:15pm

    What have we done to be stuck with him and Nicola Sturgeon?

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    Those “old” social science studies and opinions link us with a scientific appreciation of reality, there is nothing tired about them. I wouldn’t judge evidence based policy and public administration on the response to covid-19. I’m not trying to stifle opinion, I’m trying to support diversity through scientific and legal reason. That’s the only way I know how to support democracy.

    Revista Brasileira de Política Internacional, Epub Feb 01, 2018
    Making the invisible, visible: challenging the knowledge structures inherent in International Relations Theory in order to create knowledge plural curricula


    This article problematizes the lack of plurality of knowledges in International Relations theory curricula. The increase in knowledges and scholarship from the South has not seemingly filtered into International Relations theory curricula significantly. Thus Western knowledges still dominates the narrative.

    It investigates how knowledge structures inherent in the discipline coupled with Western centric ontology and epistemology function to exclude or marginalize knowledge that does not conform to specific criteria. I demonstrate how the third year IR theory curriculum at Wits University, has engaged with discipline’s knowledge structures as well as its ontology and epistemology to develop a knowledge plural curricula.

    Key words:
    Knowledge structures; Epistemologies of the south; International relations theory curricula; Knowledge plurality

  103. crazycat says:

    @ JWT at 6.53

    From the House of Commons library (

    MPs can be recalled only under certain circumstances:

    If they are convicted in the UK of an offence and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained and all appeals have been exhausted (and the sentence does not lead to automatic disqualification from being an MP);

    If they are suspended from the House following report and recommended sanction from the Committee on Standards for a specified period (at least 10 sitting days, or at least 14 days if sitting days are not specified);

    If they are convicted of an offence under section 10 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 (making false or misleading Parliamentary allowances claims)

    I don’t see how anyone up here could trigger a petition if MF doesn’t fulfill any of those criteria, and surely Police Scotland can’t decide unilaterally to imprison her? There would have to be due process, which with appeals would take some time.

    I also doubt whether the Committee for Standards could suspend her, given that the Met have stated she didn’t break any rules!

    She was really, really, stupid (brain fog notwithstanding), but the reaction is most unseemly, I feel.

  104. CameronB Brodie says:

    I appreciate I might have a lot to say, but I do know a bit about this sort of stuff and I’m only trying to be helpful.


  105. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    I’d go with Option 2 @crazycat says at 7:30 pm

    “If they are suspended from the House following report and recommended sanction from the Committee on Standards for a specified period (at least 10 sitting days, or at least 14 days if sitting days are not specified)”

    1. Met refer investigation to Polis Scotland

    2. Polis Scotland do her

    3. Said action by Scottish Police / Courts allows Commons Committee on Standards to suspend her for days number of days required

    4. Recall petition launched (and advertised for free by BBC Shortbreid / MSM)

    Such a result would suit Government North and South of the border, keeps NS and Wokoharams AS Stich Up as well as BoJos Brexit Balls-up off the front pages!

  106. LeggyPeggy says:

    I found this on Barrhead Boy’s Twitter and I hope he doesn’t mind me posting it here , he’s put up a screenshot of the part of the email he was sent .

    “ I was sent this today an extract from an email to his members in Stirling from Alyn Smith MP.

    Gradualism on steroids. Polls sitting at 58%
    ‘we have a long way to go yet’

    When will there ever be a right time for this leadership? “

    At this rate the Snp will be wanting the polls up to 99 % and even then they wouldn’t want an Independence referendum , Well i’m sorry but we only need 50 % + 1 vote .

  107. crazycat says:

    @ JWT

    That does seem the only criterion that could be fulfilled. I suppose it depends whether certain people’s determination to make an example of her (with her own help of course, by doing it in the first place) outweighs the risks from a by-election.

  108. Hatuey says:

    Sharny, good point. Not that anyone expects her to do a thing at 60%…

    Does anyone anywhere even have proof that she ever asked for a section 30?

    I gave up paying attention to their lies in 2016 but I vaguely remember someone say they hadn’t even asked for a section 30.

  109. Famous15 says:


    Your blood and soil nationalism is so 1930s.

    Get a life.

  110. North chiel says:

    “ Daisy Walker @ 0504 pm “ “ Barnier has told MEP’s that Downing st needed to offer Scottish fishermen the opportunity to develop fisheries in their own waters in the light of the growing independence sentiment in Scotland “.
    Well that’s interesting , is that an invitation to the Scottish government to “ GET INVOLVED” as regards fisheries in the context of negotiations which significantly include Scottish territorial waters . After all is not AGRICULTURE &FISHERIES a DEVOLVED competency ??
    Is it not well past time for our SCOTTISH Government to “ SPEAK UP “ and get involved with regard to this MAJOR DEVOLVED ISSUE in the context of Brexit especially as the sovereign people of Scotland voted significantly in favour to remain in the EU (2016 ). It would appear that Barnier is providing an opportunity here ? When are we going to hear from OUR SNP Government on this major issue ? If not how about our eminent QC MP “ take the lead on this”??

  111. Ottomanboi says:

    This sounds just like Scotland.
    Adios, democracy, humanity, sanity, freedom.
    Hola, Global Fascism.

  112. velofello says:

    “Well at least Ms. Ferrier will know now who are friends are” – as learned by Salmond, Murray,McDonald,Hanley, Ms Thomson.

    And Derek Mckay too? No,reports are that he is receiving SNP sponsored counselling, and I do not grudge him any necessary support, it’s just that… consistency….

    Nicola Sturgeon needs to change her dress code – to an ankle length black robe, white collar, black wide-brimmed hat, and clutching a black covered book.

    I never ever thought I’d feel this way about her, but facts and behaviour are there to note. her Sky interview on Sunday the clincher.

  113. CameronB Brodie says:

    I get the impression Joe aspires to be manky jacket. 😉

    Forum: Qualitative Social Research, Volume 19, No. 3, Art. 27 – September 2018
    Toward Epistemological Ethics: Centering Communities and Social Justice in Qualitative Research

    As qualitative researchers based in the United States, we theorize and ground ethical issues within our work as inherent to the continuum of methods, epistemologies, and research relationships. Through collective and transgressive reflexivity, we write as members of the Society for Qualitative Research in Psychology (SQIP) Ethics Task Force, re-imagining the American Psychological Association’s (APA) Ethics Code as a resource that is inclusive of qualitative inquiry and responsive to the “evidence based” quandaries encountered in our praxis.

    In this article, we name the gaps in the Code that are incommensurate with social justice oriented qualitative research and shake the epistemological ground of the Code from bottom-up. We interweave our vision for a new ethics Code that foregrounds the intersubjective and reflexive nature of knowledge production, preserves dignity, attends to power relations within and outside of the research endeavor, critiques relational and epistemic distance, and explicates the internal connection between epistemology, validity, and ethics. In our writing we note disruption of normative ways of knowing and being within the academy and within qualitative research.

    Key words:
    APA Ethics Code; community-based research; dignity; epistemology; ethic of reciprocity; hermeneutics of love; intersubjectivity; qualitative research ethics; reflexivity; USA

  114. Beaker says:

    @susanXX says:
    15 October, 2020 at 7:15 pm
    “Oh god. It’s the CBB show already.”

    Perhaps it is because CBBeebies ends at 7pm (I think, my sons are grown up).

    Sorry Cam, couldn’t resist it 🙂

  115. Annie 621 says:

    It never happened.,
    Nothing ever happened
    Even while it was happening, it wasn’t happening.
    It didn’t matter.
    Harold Pinter..Nobel Speech extract regarding US and UK war crimes…
    SNP in good company.

  116. CameronB Brodie says:

    Beaker 🙂

  117. Robert Graham says:

    Ok what’s this we are only at 99%

    Oh duck that’s it then we might as well give up and all go home we haven’t reached the 99.99% so the games up for another generation or even longer ,

    Oh well we tried at least better luck next time eh .

    Quietly sniggering as she skips off into the sunset whispering quietly mugs ,the gullible fools .

    THE END .

  118. Alf Baird says:

    CameronB Brodie @ 8.31

    Shuid it no be ‘manky jaiket’?

    As in, ‘A’ll get ma jaiket’.

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alf Baird
    I’ve had the Scots beaten out of me through my education, innit. 😉

  120. Tannadice Boy says:

    There are many attributes I admire about the Rev Stu. Resilience, perseverance, humour, inquisitive nature and most importantly of all he loves the National Sport. And he can’t be bought the fundamental attribute of a leader. I am going to check out of the website. You can lie to Parliament, get on a train when you are positive and nothing will happen unless of course you are an ordinary person. I won’t be missed. But my contribution to Scotland is there. Keep going Stu. You provide a service the MSM don’t. If I hear you are on a fund raiser I will contribute but I don’t see the point anymore.

  121. Graeme says:

    I’m looking for a bit of help, can anybody tell me if Nicola officially requested a S30 after the EU Ref and if so does anyone know the date ?

  122. Lenny Hartley says:

    Have it on good authority that in the forthcoming hustings For SNP Candidate selection , there will be no questions from the floor so to speak, questions to candidates have to be submitted in advance and you cant ask a candidate about anything they have done in the past only questions relating to future allowed. i guess mine will be “do you intend to sign the Womans Pledge, if not please advise why”

  123. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Velofello @ 8.27pm

    Re Shifty Blinkblink’s mode of dress – I would suggest:

    Grubby, once white, night shirt, night cap on head and carrying a candle. Holy Wilma – the embidiment of the Unco Guid.

  124. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Graeme – when did NS request a S 30 order?

    31st March 2017 as per The Revs article Faith is Always Blind Oct 2019.

  125. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Tannadice Boy says:
    15 October, 2020 at 8:55 pm
    There are many attributes I admire about the Rev Stu. Resilience, perseverance, humour, inquisitive nature and most importantly of all he loves the National Sport. And he can’t be bought the fundamental attribute of a leader. I am going to check out of the website. You can lie to Parliament, get on a train when you are positive and nothing will happen unless of course you are an ordinary person. I won’t be missed. But my contribution to Scotland is there. Keep going Stu. You provide a service the MSM don’t. If I hear you are on a fund raiser I will contribute but I don’t see the point anymore.’

    By all means take a break, but you can’t switch off caring., and if your caring, you might as well be contributing. And we are nearly there. Plus you will be missed, I like your contributions. Take it easy.

  126. Republicofscotland says:

    Dan @8.58pm.

    Interesting link Dan. One wonders if Sturgeon realises that the only way out of her terrible mess is to actually push for Scottish independence.

  127. Graeme says:

    Thanks Daisy
    That’s a big help

    PS I still haven’t got your email

    I’ve made a start sequence but I’m at a stage I kinda need your approval and input

  128. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tannadice Boy
    I hope you change your mind, as you strike me as being a reasonably open-minded individual who also happens to be technically minded. Which means you are open to learning and understand that rules need to be theoretically justified and functionally practical. You also appear to support truthfulness in politics, which I think makes yours exactly the sort of voice that needs to be heard right now.

    We only have a couple of months to make as much noise as we can, as there is no grantees once we’re removed from the protection of EU law. So I’m going to make as much noise as I can, because I know how to support public health and democracy.

    Postcolonial Studies Volume 17, 2014 – Issue 2: Decoloniality, Knowledges and Aesthetics
    Legitimation of knowledge, epistemic justice and the intercultural university: towards an epistemology of ‘living well’

  129. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Graeme. I’ve asked the Rev to forward it again today. Not sure if he’s busy. What city / area are you based in?

  130. Graeme says:

    Daisy Walker says:
    15 October, 2020 at 10:02 pm

    @ Graeme. I’ve asked the Rev to forward it again today. Not sure if he’s busy. What city / area are you based in?


    I live in Dundee

  131. kapelmeister says:

    An op-ed piece by Sturgeon in a continental paper is unlikely to be a sign of a genuine desire to put the drive on regarding independence. She won’t sustain it, because she never does. And she knows it won’t fool us, her detractors in the Yes movement.

    Rather, this is just a device to maintain her credibility with her fans.

  132. Daisy Walker says:


    I’m not far from Dundee When do you want to meet, and where.

  133. Graeme says:

    @ Daisy
    Let me get back to you on that I run a small business and work late most evenings and I may have to work this weekend but failing email contact I’ll figure something out

  134. Hatuey says:

    “Exclusive: NHS in discussions with BMA and others around December Covid vaccine programme”

    Now, then. I hope those who argued for opening society up and those who said covid19 was being exaggerated will do the honourable thing and refuse the vaccine.

    And once the rest of us have had it, I absolutely promise you we’ll be opening things right up in line with your wishes.

  135. A Person says:

    -Tannadice Boy-

    I have found your comments insightful, all the best.

  136. Davie Oga says:

    Sturgeon requested Sec 30 talks on the 31st of March.

    May said “now is not the time” and that was it. The SNP loyalists on this site denied it was ever a formal request in their efforts to hide Sturgeon’s effete corruption as she set out upon her geez a Sec. 30 guv nonsense.

    IIRC at the time, there was a Salmond quote along the lines of “many ways to skin a cat”. Perhaps this was the start of the political/policy split. They were out to get him not long after.

    Alex Salmond would have demanded a reply from May. No way would he let that slide, pretend that he never asked, and spend the
    the next three and a half years, mandate whoring for the right to beg.

  137. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Socrates (9.22) –


    That’s a like.

    Chris Cairns could do something braw with that.

  138. Daisy Walker says:

    OT – sort of.

    Re the ongoing SNP selection process for the Constituency vote, and the concerns about it being rigged with careerists who are not committed to Indy.

    The selection process should identify reputable candidates who are fully supportive of Indy.

    If the reputable candidates fail to get selected, and are in support of the ‘Declaration of Bath’- it means they will be available to stand as Independent Independents, and adopt it as their manifesto – if the SNP fail to do so. Sort of like a back up plan.

    If the SNP do adopt it as their manifesto, but ‘pursues’ it with the careerists, it means the Reputable Candidates will be available for the list seat vote.

    Every cloud has a silver lining.

  139. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Dan at 8:58 pm

    You typed/pasted,

    Here’s the English version of the German web site, courtesy of Google Translate.

  140. Lenny Hartley says:

    Everybody getting on twitter ok, i have been unable to access it from my ipad or desktop since around 1800!

  141. holymacmoses says:

    Tannadice Boy says:
    15 October, 2020 at 8:55 pm
    There are many attributes I admire about the Rev Stu. Resilience, perseverance, humour, inquisitive nature and most importantly of all he loves the National Sport. And he can’t be bought the fundamental attribute of a leader. I am going to check out of the website. You can lie to Parliament, get on a train when you are positive and nothing will happen unless of course you are an ordinary person. I won’t be missed. But my contribution to Scotland is there. Keep going Stu. You provide a service the MSM don’t. If I hear you are on a fund raiser I will contribute but I don’t see the point anymore

    The worst is not worst and all that, Tannadyce.
    It’s actually better than it was because it hurts more

  142. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Graeme, no probs. If we go over to the music channel you could let me know if there’s any info I can provide just now.

  143. Contrary says:

    Well, Stu, you tested the search engine pretty thoroughly, and the fact is, if the searches worked before, then someone has gone to a lot of effort to remove all the keywords from the documents already there – or the search engine has indeed been rigged. I have no idea how it would be possible, but evidence of how a key word search worked on a document on the past, that doesn’t work now would be ideal – any random screenshots that happen to include the search criteria from a while ago?

    General notes: we should not go whining with begging bowl to anyone else, not the EU or EFTA or anyone else, to ‘save’ us, we do this ourselves, it’s our independence, I don’t want to end up beholden to any other country for it ,,, that’s the point really. And 50% + 1 is the magic number. There is no such thing as an ‘illegal’ referendum (it would be termed ‘unlawful’ if using legal-speak, so just goes to show what a load of political-speak bollocks it is). Nicola Sturgeon has poisoned everyone’s minds with memes and caveats plucked out of thin air.

  144. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lenny Hartley –

    It’s been okay here and, as you know, I’m just across the watter.

    Is someone interfering with you sah!?


  145. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lenny Hartley –


    You’re right.

    There is something wrong with it.

    Won’t update properly at the ‘Home’ tab…


  146. Davie Oga says:

    Gradualism and the referendum policy are based on the premise of having a benign, good faith, negotiating partner.


    The Revs sample manifesto is not just “a” way to independence. It is the only way available at the moment.

  147. Stan Broadwood says:


    What’s all this shite about blood and soul nationalism aimed at the guy Joe?

    That’s a very english term, usually used by ignorant english Tories.

    Are you english?

    Are you a snowflake?

    Do you simply adore Nikawa?

    And remember Famous,,,

    Independence is normal.

  148. Lenny Hartley says:

    Ian Brotherhood , cheers, i need to get a life, seem to spend all my spare time looking at twitter.

  149. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Lenny Hartley –

    Twitter isn’t perfect by any means but it’s still more entertaining and educational than watching ‘the box’ – can’t believe how influential ‘normal’ telly still is e.g. the stuff about Johnny Vegas tonight on Twitter – I have, literally, no idea what that’s all about.

  150. Effijy says:

    Question Time- Why Oh Why do SNP reps sit quiet when the Tory and BBC
    panelist’s distort Covid figures?

    Pro rata we have lower numbers of cases and deaths!
    Why on earth wouldn’t you drive that home.

    Why don’t you hammer the Tories about their billion pound
    Track and Disgrace?

    I think all the public input so far has come from English residents of Edinburgh.

    We have Sir Woods Billionaire Tory and Indy Ref 1 liar on to ensure unionist BBC Bias.


  151. Jockanese Wind Talker says:


    UK Govt Agencies will shortly be able to pretty much break any fucking law they want with impunity!!

    The Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill passed its 3rd reading this evening.

    Bowie, Duguid and Lamont all vote for it.

    Jack, Mundell and Ross appear not to have (either not there or abstained – I suspect the former).

    “It would allow public authorities, ranging from police and MI5 to HMRC and the Food Standards Agency, to authorise agents and INFORMANTS to commit crimes while undercover.”

    “The proposed authorisations would not only be issued in the interests of national security or preventing and detecting crime, but also preventing “DISORDER” and in the “interests of THE ECONOMIC WELL-BEING of the United Kingdom”.

    My CAPS

    Scottish Independence threatens the “economic well-being” of the UK.

    It will literally (and now legally) be anything goes when they come for The Rev, Craig Murray etc.

    Despotism writ large.

  152. Effijy says:

    Douglas Ross- where the F*** did he make up the lies that Scots Ave the highest R rates in the UK
    and death rates in Europe.

    Where on earth could that probably come from and why the F is Kate Forbes
    Not quashing that statement back into his face?

  153. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Lenny Hartley says: 10:30 pm

    Everybody getting on twitter ok, i have been unable to access it from my ipad or desktop since around 1800!
    1800..!? Didn’t know it’d been invented then, how old are you?

    Must be the Arran air I suppose.. 🙂

  154. Jimmy The Pict says:

    Lenny Hartley says: 10:30 pm

    Everybody getting on twitter ok, i have been unable to access it from my ipad or desktop since around 1800!

    Having issues with twitter myself, not sure when it was last available

  155. Effijy says:

    Fiona BBC wants to move on but gives pal Douglas another cheap and misleading shot at
    Kate Forbes finances?


  156. Lenny Hartley says:

    Graf Midgehunter Like most electrical thingies it was invented by James Clerk Maxwell in the 1890’s

  157. TJenny says:

    Re Twitter, it’s apparently down in UK, USA, Norway and Japan too, so far. More countries may be affected but not yet notfied on the ‘twitter down’ feed I’m reading.

    So guys, it’s no just you. 🙂

  158. holymacmoses@5.30

    thanks for the link to Dani gravelly’s recent article. Yes there is a subtle shift in her message – especially the bit where she openly states that Nicola is not the intended sacrifice, however she just can’t help herself and about three paragraphs in refers to the Scot Gov newly formed Code of Practice thus :

    …. the botching of the newly instituted code of practice failed both Salmond and the women involved, and because a judicial review, which ruled it unlawful, cost the taxpayer more than £500,000.

    Beats me how it ‘failed the women’ involved if they were being dishonest, after all the Court found Salmond had not carried out the things they accused him of.
    Beats me how that failed Salmond!
    All in all a very curious statement…

  159. holymacmoses says:

    Ms Ferrier is sitting as an independent MP after being suspended by the SNP.

    She has refused to quit as an MP, and said coronavirus made her act “out of character”.

    it seems like Ms Ferrier might be the perfect member for a Mr Sturgeon party

  160. Dan says:

    Lenny Hartley says: at 10:30 pm

    Everybody getting on twitter ok, i have been unable to access it from my ipad or desktop since around 1800!

    I didn’t think you were that old! Twitter only started in 2006! 🙂

    @ Daisy Walker at 10:29 pm

    Aye, once the selection process is completed and the chosen candidates known it will give a better idea as to where we are.
    It’ll be fairly pointless* for some of the decent but ultimately rejected folk to stand on the Regional List in most regions with heehaw chance of them being elected.

    *Caveats to that are the wording of any particular manifestos, plus the question of whether a certain party’s constituency vote crashes due to them pushing shit policies and further carrot dangling…

  161. Dan says:

    Doh, beaten to the joke by Graf’s German efficiency…

  162. Andre gordon says:

    Question Time,

    Ian Wood, has he escaped from his care home, brilliant guy in his day, made himself a shit load of money, as far as I am concerned he has NO interest in Scotland, Tory through and through and his so called benevolence to the people of Scotland is laughfable, he may have donated a few Bob but usualy with a goal or a deal on mind.

  163. Big Jock says:

    Effigy In some parts of Edinburgh Scottish people have English accents. So it’s hard to tell if they are foreign, or just house jocks!

    True story. I work in insurance. One of our clients was a Scottish Sporting body. The president had what I would call a home counties accent. I asked what part of England He was from. Answer Edinburgh. I thought aye right.

    So Wiki check confirmed. Born Edinburgh, went to fee paying school in Edinburgh. Not a trace, not even a hint of Scottish in the accent!

  164. TJenny says:

    It’s back! Yay. 🙂

  165. Famous15 says:

    Stan to be a good liar you need a good memory.

    I was using YOUR words back at you,you lying faux Tory shitebag/

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    meg merrilees
    That’s how you go about re-framing events that are of public concern, as a means of impeding natural justice. All par for the course, if you’ve studied public discourse. 😉

    Pragmatics 21:2.185-190 2011

    This special issue revisits the notion of framing based on several recent developments in the fields of sociolinguistics, discourse analysis, and linguistic anthropology, particularly the current interest in the notions of stance, style, metalinguistics and language ideology.

    In doing so, the contributions highlight the importance of framing not only in the management of micro-level interactional practices but also in the reproduction of cultural ideologies and social relations.

    Framing; Stance; Style; Language ideology; Interaction.

  167. Effijy says:

    QT has some English Labour Anti Democratic Rep that attacked poverty
    Rates in Scotland suggesting that its SNP’s fault and nothing to do with
    Us not being allowed any important fiscal levers.

    Please have a look at the chart in the link below produced in England to see that our poverty level
    Has been better than England’s and all other parts of the UK.

    Whatever happened to BBC fact check and politicians who’s only skill is lying and misleading?

  168. Stan Broadwood says:

    Famous, like your cousin robbo the other night, I haven’t got a fuckin clue what what are on about.

    I was talking about an answer you gave to the guy called Joe.

    What part of Engerland do you stay in?

    And like robbo, you act like some kind of site gate keeper.

    As if every post has to meet with your approval.

    Never any constructive post, just jumping on posters you don’t agree with.

    Well can I politely ask you to get off my case, fuck off and take a hike.

    Hope nothing got lost in translation there.

    You englanders, you stand out a mile.

  169. Abalha says:

    Oh my the most recent Osama Saeed Bhutta twitter post banging on now about ‘a propaganda email’.

    This is really rather silly, I pity the poor SNP members in Cunninghame North. The choice is OSB, Kenny Gibson or former MP Corri Wilson.

  170. boris says:

    In the weeks before the Referendum Scots were “love bombed” by t.v. personalities, pop music performers, politicians and heads of state of other countries with the heart tugging message that Scots were an integral and equal part of the UK “family of nations” and tearful pleas of “please don’t go, we love you.”

    Eight hours after after the referendum result was published Cameron announced the Unionist Party’s answer to the “West Lothian” question.

    Acts of parliament would be implemented, without delay, introducing English votes for English Laws (EVEL) forming two tiers of parliamentarians in the House of Commons.

  171. CameronB Brodie says:

    I know I keep in banging on about epistemology, but you simply can’t run an effective criminal justice system if you are as casual in your approach to epistemic integrity, as our Justice Minister and the Lord Advocate appear to be. ;(

    a study in the epistemology of criminal justice.

  172. Hatuey says:

    “Political leaders in Liverpool announce £40million emergency aid package for the region’s struggling pubs, bars and restaurants amid Covid lockdown”

    Scot Gov launches £40m package to support hospitality trade”

    So, an English city with a population of half a million is being awarded the same amount of money to bail out its hospitality sector as a country of 5.5 million.

    Has anyone heard the SNP complain about this?

    Maybe they don’t want to get on the wrong side of Westminster right now in light of their other problems.

    Easier to pretend it’s a ScotGov initiative with ScotGov money and act like you’re being really generous.

    And that is how the SNP rolls these days.

  173. holymacmoses says:

    meg merrilees says:
    15 October, 2020 at 11:17 pm

    thanks for the link to Dani gravelly’s recent article. Yes there is a subtle shift in her message – especially the bit where she openly states that Nicola is not the intended sacrifice, however she just can’t help herself and about three paragraphs in refers to the Scot Gov newly formed Code of Practice thus

    Pleased it was useful.

    Do you know I wasn’t sure whether Gravelly actually meant that Mr Salmond shouldn’t have been bought to trial.
    See, separately those women didn’t have a leg to stand on with their complaints and it was only when *somebody* has the *Moorov* idea that Mr Salmond was able to be brought to court. M

  174. CameronB Brodie says:

    And that is a very serious problem, as their narrow positivist legal stance threatens Scotland’s democracy.

    Exploring the epistemology of transdisciplinarity in public policy and administration in South Africa

  175. Beaker says:

    Twitter has been playing silly buggers all day. Any time I try to get in it displays an error, then reloading the page works fine.

    Maybe Trump supporters have buggered it up 🙂

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    If we don’t force our law officers to support international human rights law, Scots will no longer be protected by EU Health and Environmental law at the end of the year. That appears to be OK with the Lord Advocate, who does not appear to support bioethics or human rights. ;(


  177. Joe says:


    1930’s? No. Im not that far with it. My blood and soil nationalism is pretty much in line with every other country on the planet that isn’t selling its own people out.

    The extremists are people like you.

    Nation from Cambridge dictionary:

    a country, especially when thought of as a large group of people living in one area with their own government, language, traditions, etc.:
    All the nations of the world will be represented at the conference.
    The Germans, as a nation, are often thought to be well organized.
    Practically the whole nation watched the ceremony on television.

    [ S ]
    a large group of people of the same race who share the same language, traditions, and history, but who might not all live in one area:
    the Navajo nation

    What civic nationalists are doing by pretending that ‘blood and soil’ has no place is denying that there can ever be nationalism.

    Because if you don’t have ‘blood’ you don’t have a people

    If you don’t have ‘soil’ your people don’t have a home.

    That’s not to suggest there can’t be a heavy dose of civic nationalism also in the mix.

    However to pretend you have anything left except a territory to be occupied and a bunch of people to be exploited by international finance when you take the blood and soil part out is to be a useful idiot for the kind of capitalists you pretend to oppose.

    What does it mean to be Scottish? Its having a piece of paper and feeling like your Scottish?

    If that’s Scottish nationalism then no wonder the movement has been bent over and is being slowly, but deeply, reamed by a bunch of C grade politicians and civil servants while the rest of the world looks on in wonder while the once proud Scots are (were?) poised to have the most ridiculous laws against free expression in the 1st world landed on them along with the disappearance of the female sex as a definable biological distinction.

    But then maybe Scottish nationalism really is just globalism for Scots? Maybe the sense of being Scottish and a part of a distinctive people and culture is ready to be removed? Having that distinctiveness, that you have to be born and raised into, never stopped us from being among the most well liked people in the world in the past? So what changed?

    Well, people were sold a form of liberal progressive extremism that made the erasure of that distinctiveness possible, while calling those who want a normal situation the extremist. It was quite a trick.

    Tell me – who would benefit if the Scots lost a sense of themselves?

    Of course the retort is – but Scots haven’t lost a sense of themselves or their culture!

    To which my reply is – yet. The process of demoralisation is underway and is measured in generations.

  178. Beaker says:

    Got into Twitter. Someone got blocked by a certain Nicola Sturgeon. Apparently she doesn’t take well to criticism…

  179. Beaker says:

    Not me I should point out. I don’t tweet about politics.

  180. CyberMidgie says:

    – No action has been taken to conceal publications from the Scottish Government website search engine.

    – The website search engine requires individual search tags to be input as material is uploaded to the system.

    Ah, it all becomes clear. It’s not that the Scottish Government is trying to conceal anything, oh no. They just happen to have omitted overly-generic search tags like “Chief of Staff” in favour of more specific ones like “xumrshhfop”. It’s not their fault you don’t know what to search for.

    Nothing to see here, move along now.

  181. Bob W says:


    The puzzling thing about searching FOIs is that the two searches available publications (on the right of the page) and site search (top right) return different results.

    The publication search does not return all of the the FOIs in the publications file path, but the site search does find the relevant FOIs.

  182. Bob W says:

    On the right should read on the left.

  183. Hatuey says:

    Cybermidgie, they’re even hiding the stuff on “xumrshhfop”.

    Bastards is as bastards does.

    “Showing 0 publications containing xumrshhfop of type FOI/EIR release”

  184. Hatuey says:

    Hey, Joe… where you going with that blood and soil in your hands?

    “Scots haven’t lost a sense of themselves or their culture!”

    I kinda resent the idea that I’m supposed to have culture. If you dare to define Scottish culture, I’m dutybound to say it’s crap. Because it inevitably would be, unless you define it in such loose terms as to be meaningless.

    Maybe it’s our culture to be cultureless. Who needs culture anyway? Why? So that we can pretend we are superior?

    As for being the most well-liked people in the world… Jesus.

    Do people really believe stuff like that? I bet go-getters say that to themselves in Uzbekistan too – and if they did then I wouldn’t argue.

    You didn’t choose to be Scottish any more than an Uzbek chose to be Uzbekistani. And if Scottish culture comes with the Scottish uniform, it’s nothing to be proud of since you didn’t choose that either.

    If you’re going to be proud of something, try and make sure it’s something that you actually had a particle of a part in bringing about.

    And one last thing. Don’t bother responding or expect this discussion to go any further with me in it. It’s junk.

  185. CameronB Brodie says:

    Defining culture isn’t necessarily easy, though better minds than mine have already done a pretty good job of describing what it is, and what it means to us as human beings.

    Human Development, 2018, Vol.61, No. 6
    Constructing Personal Epistemologies: Cultural and Methodological Considerations

  186. Murness says:

    Why are people who don’t believe Scotland even has a culture (and who knows what rock they’ve been hiding under if they genuinely think that but okay) even interested in independence? It doesn’t make sense. Are they are really just devolutionists? Anti-English? Greedy? Is it just extended Cringe? Does anyone else have a culture or is Scotland uniquely culture-less? I’d ask but the one on here’s said he/she won’t discuss it.

    I mean if Scotland doesn’t have a distinct culture, isn’t a distinct people then why would you break up the UK? If it’s all just one strip of land and the people on it are just there, are no different from other people on any other blob of land and had no influence on what it’s like to live where they do (who did, btw, if not the people who live in that place?), why bother? What’s the point other than wanting to keep resources to yourselves or not liking another (presumably also culture-less?) group that you share the bit of dirt with? How do people who don’t believe Scotland has a culture even know they live in Scotland? What makes it Scotland?

  187. G H Graham says:

    Over 60 posts by the amateur spammer, Cameron B Brodie in the previous four articles including this one.

    I cannot be the only one to sigh upon sight of his relentless self indulgence, puerile arguments, name calling then promptly leave.

    Might it be time to set a limit on the number of posts one can make on any one thread so that the theme of the article is not ruined by the interventions of someone who appears to relish hijacking someone else’s platform?

  188. Andy Ellis says:

    @G H Graham

    From your lips to God’s ears bud!

    Unfortunately no matter how often this is brought up by multiple posters, nothing ever changes. Stu appears content to let Cameron make the BTL comment section his playground irrespective of the downsides for everyone else. It’s a real shame because in the threads he’s absent for, or when his meds haven’t quite kicked in, the comments section really comes alive.

    There are certainly multiple reasons to kick roasters like Cameron into touch as you so eloquently set out in your post, but I can’t for the life of me understand why he thinks it’s appropriate to hi-Jack someone else’s forum to pursue his own monomaniacal obsession, nor can I understand why Stu didn’t nt block him months ago.

  189. Joe says:


    ‘And one last thing. Don’t bother responding or expect this discussion to go any further with me in it. It’s junk.’

    That’s right. Because im making sense and you don’t like it.

  190. Muscleguy says:

    @vlad (not that one)

    I have a theory that CBB doesn’t read or doesn’t properly understand a lot of the content of the links he puts up. The one you quote is a doozy though. Pure sophistry pretending to be logical argument. If the assumptions are bogus the outcomes will be bogus.

    You CANNOT change your sex. You can change the outward appearance of how you MIGHT be perceived but sexual function is unlikely to be fully equatable to the opposite sex, especially for Trans men. They will still have the sex chromosomes and biology they were conceived with. Which means the cross sex hormones they are ingesting WILL harm them. MEN on oestrogen suffer kidney dammage and immune disfunction. WOMEN on Testosterone will have cardiac issues. Take T for not very long and irreversible changes will happen: deeper voice, hair growth (once stimulated those hair follicles are not going back) and of course male pattern baldness (the opposite problem).

  191. David Caledonia says:

    Over the years I have asked for information about the police concerning a couple of court cases involving me and the conduct of the police in those cases.
    When the FOI letters came back it said about most of it, not in the public interest
    Basically meaning, we have a get out clause and you can go and cluck yourself
    What needs to happen here is obvious, there needs to be a truly independent body to bring these cretins to heel, I have never wrote to any so called independent body and got justice for myself even though my two court cases where thrown out of court on the very last day each time
    Lying police officers not appearing because they would have to take the oath and commit perjury, and the fiscal new I had the evidence to prove they where liars, month’s of pleading diets for me and every time I pleaded not guilty and they still took it to the last day
    An idiot of a barmaid accused me of assaulting her , there was a camera in the pub that showed she was a blatant liar, she never appeared in court she was never charged with anything and I tried my best to get funt charged, spent month’s going round in circles with that one
    Justice, if you expect justice in the courts they have taken me to then your fooling yourself, there is no justice as long as the people who run the show are allowed to do as they please without consequence

  192. susanXX says:

    Muscleguy@08:37am. Thank god for reality. Every word you say is correct and I refuse to deny reality to appease these people.

  193. Ottomanboi says:

    Scotland does not have a culture, it has cultures, personal, local, regional, authentic and synthetic.
    A person claiming not to have or care about culture has chosen to be ‘in denial’. From the moment of birth you acquire culture, both low and high, and that continues all through life.
    I personally have multi layers of cultural influences, some are ancestral, foundational and core others, merely temporary, may be sloughed like old skin.
    Im in my late teens, I have the wisdom to realise the value of culture in creating the individual, the community and the sense of nationhood, with or without political statehood.
    You may value the unifying power of culture when others attempt to take yours away from you and that includes the basic right to personal freedom and autonomy.

  194. David Caledonia says:

    More to come about my involvement with police officers and custody sergeant’s
    When I can be bothered to tell the whole sorry saga’s

  195. Alf Baird says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Culture and language are the basis of identity, though neither seems well covered at all in the independence debate literature. I also found in researching for my book on the subject (‘Doun Hauden’) that peoples seeking self-determination mostly reflect a language/cultural divide. This research indicates that indigenous language has a crucial role to play in the Yes/No decision as language reflects the main cultural divide. The SNP has ignored the opportunity they have had to introduce a Scots Language Act and related initiatives, e.g. to teach the Scots how to read and write in their own natural Scots language, which many still speak, though which the prevailing monolingual English language policy in ‘Scottish’ education renders as ‘not a valid language’ and hence inferior (to English). This is also the root of the Scottish cultural cringe and the feeling of inferiority held by many Scots. It also results in the ‘Cultural Division of Labour’ and inequalities (Hechter 1998) and reflects ‘internal colonialism’. Thus national liberation is largely about cultural liberation (Fanon 1968), the Scots having rather a ‘clandestine culture’, with many holding to the ‘illusion of (British) culture’ (Gaughan) under internal colonialism.

  196. Breeks says:

    susanXX says:
    16 October, 2020 at 8:50 am

    Muscleguy@08:37am. Thank god for reality. Every word you say is correct and I refuse to deny reality to appease these people.

    I refuse too.

    People need to ask themselves what Sturgeon is actually building here, because after five years of this shite, you can be damned sure it is NOT the case for Scottish Independence.

  197. Big Jock says:

    Scotland is just like any other country.

    We have many regional cultures. Highlands , Islands, Glasgow ,Edinburgh etc.

    However I would argue that there is a Scottish culture that binds all of these areas together. That’s what makes Scotland a country and not just a set of regions.

    Most people born in Scotland. Have an intrinsic sense of identity to Scotland. Whether that is the football team, bagpipes, Whisky, Hogmanay, Haggis, Burns. Or the more modern music culture. The Proclaimers, Glasvegas, Postcard Records.

    Then there is the words we use throughout the land. Aye, Naw, Scunnered, Wee.

    It’s often people who come to live in Scotland , who really grasp how unique the Scottish culture is. We just don’t think about all the quirks that make up our identity. That’s why people who move away, often have a sense of longing for things we take for granted.

    There is definitely a Scottish culture.

  198. Alf Baird says:

    Deid richt, Big Jock; oor ain Scottis naitional cultur is whit its aw aboot!

    As Frantz Fanon (1968) wrote:

    “The withering away of the reality of the nation and the death-pangs of the national culture are linked to each other in mutual dependency”.


    “The first necessity is the re-establishment of the nation in order to give life to national culture…..the conscious and organised undertaking by colonial people to re-establish the sovereignty of that nation constitutes the most complete and obvious cultural manifestation that exists. If culture is the expression of national consciousness…it is the national consciousness which is the most elaborate form of culture”.

  199. kapelmeister says:

    The Gammons’ favourite comic The Daily Express has caught on that there are serious divisions in the SNP. Strangely enough they seem to have grasped – unlike some ‘serious’ journals – that the in-fighting isn’t just about the Salmond case. They even describe WoS as a “popular and influential pro-independence website”.

  200. Abalha says:

    Article in Times on the inquiry, John Swinney appears to be wriggling around.

    ‘The deputy first minister said there were no plans to release information about the “substance” of the claims about Mr Salmond. Instead the government will ask the courts for permission to release documents Mr Swinney says “relate directly to the committee’s remit”.

  201. kapelmeister says:

    Breeks @9:09

    Yep, the SNP wokes won’t give indy more than a token mention in their 2021 election trannyfesto.

  202. Abalha says:

    In reply to kapelmeister at 927am

    Just read it after seeing your post, in fairness it’s pretty
    well balanced for the Express, as if they can’t quite believe the SNP is shooting itself in the foot.

  203. Sharny Dubs says:

    I worked many years in west Africa and had opportunity to ponder the difference in culture (call it culture if you will for convenience sake but I like to think it’s more as dna)

    This is what I came up with for what it’s worth.

    In tropical areas there are no real growing seasons, you can pretty much walk out the door and you will find something growing you can eat, fruit, veg, animal whatever. This has resulted as generations roll bye in the Darwinian process of selecting people’s who do not waste time storing or managing food, or for that matter surviving the weather. Everything is immediate, survive today and leave tomorrow to take care of itself.

    Now the further north you come the more difficult it becomes just to survive, there are seasons in which nothing grows so crops have to be grown and stored or your not going to survive the winter. Same goes for housing and fuel, if you don’t have a weatherproof house to live in or enough fuel to burn you will not survive.
    This is born out with the timing of wars and campaigns etc. If a King tried to raise an army during harvest time he quite often would not succeed because men had to bring in the harvest or their families would starve later during the winter, so they told the King to take a flying f.
    There also developed a strategy of strength in numbers, so if catastrophe occurred such as your house got burnt down in mid winter then your neighbour would help you out if possible because next time the shit hit the fan it could be his turn.
    The obvious Darwinian selection process comes into effect so the survivors where the ones who cooperated, planned ahead and formed social groups (I.e. clans)

    Result the further north you go the more “social” people become, extreme examples of this would be the Inuit in the wilds of Canada and the opposite the warring Shaka Zulu in Southern Africa.

    Now I’m no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I have postulated this many times to Africans and northerners alike and have had very few who would disagree with the logic.

    In our shrinking world of finite resources going forward we need to develop more sociable and north like “culture” (if the “tag” does not offend you) if we are going to survive en mass. The alternative is war and destruction and the same old same old I’m afraid.

    I also so hate making long wordy gendersplaining posts but could not help wanting to point out that imho we really do have a culture, and it really is needed for the good of all.

  204. Big Jock says:

    Alf – When someone tells me that there is no “Scottish Culture”.

    I am immediately suspicious that they are a unionist. This is a tool they use to try and same us with the rest of the UK or England. One that is used by Labour is:” I aAm an internationalist, Someone in Glasgow has more in common with someone from Liverpool , than they have with someone from Aberfeldy”.

    The part they miss. Is that someone from Glasgow and from Aberfeldy have something that binds them. They are both Scottish. I am pretty sure someone from Glasgow has more in common with someone from Dublin than Aberfeldy (Socially). So does that mean that Ireland shouldn’t be independent? This homogeneous tool is used over and over again.

    So unionists are obsessed with denying the existence of Scottish culture. Billy Connolly is another one. He has said there is no such thing as Scottish humour, there is just humour. Which I think we all know is complete garbage.

    Still Game, Billy Connolly, Kevin Bridges, Arnold Brown, Hector Nicol, Chic Murray. They appeal to Scots, because they are Scots. Because they understand us and what makes us laugh. There is international humour, but many Scottish acts only work in Scotland.

    I also believe there is a Celtic spirit that runs through our very soul. It’s intangible, that’s why unionists don’t feel it. They have no soul!

  205. Breeks says:

    I confess I didn’t really know much about Roger Mullin, but I thought this was another excellent Barrheadboy podcast.

    It’s a good listen, actually one of the best, but it’s also as depressing as fk… All of the things Scotland should be doing, when we all know that the SNP NEC isn’t even discussing Independence.

    Heart breaking.

    We need more old school Roger Mullins and a lot fewer ‘social experiments’ in the SNP. The SNP is currently on the totally wrong trajectory, and that needs changed quickly.

    Credit to Barrheadboy too… he gets good people on and you can learn a lot.

  206. Famous15 says:

    In the dark of the night Stan Broadwood,the pal of Joe,accuses me of being a Little englander gate keeper.

    Ignoring the Commando Comic level of diction,let me say jumping on fascist racism should be everyones duty. I was born and raised and worked and retired in Scotland but have travelled the world and sampled all its delights and suffered many strange events in far off lands but still delight in interacting with all of humanity.Some are good some are wicked but mostly folks just try to get along.

    I wish for an independent Scotland because all of Scotland’s peoples (YES of ALL races and creeds) would get along just that wee bit better if we were independent.

    Now back to the shitebags,Joe and Stan,you are trying to create a scenario of ethnic purity or at least blood and soil nationalism,whereas I am an internationalist and perhaps even a civic nationalist and YES I abhor your anti English bullshit.

    BUT I do wonder if you are trying to shoehorn that quiet,self effacing gentle man,the Rev Stuart Campbell into being aligned with your repulsive views. He is the gatekeeper and provider of this platform and I can guess where his views lie.

  207. Black Joan says:

    If only it was possible to mute or block specific posters on here, as it is on Twitter.

  208. Stan Broadwood says:

    Good chance Lancashire will go into tier three today.

    That would mean Blackpool would have to close their pubs.

    That would cancel out the Jolly the Old Firm fans had planned for tomorrow.

    I wonder if Nicola Sturgeon had any input into that decision?

    Because she was determined Old Firm fans shouldn’t travel to the area.

  209. Effijy says:

    Billy C is totally wrong about humour being humour everywhere.

    In the 60’s when Francie and Josie appeared in their TV series the
    Streets of Glasgow became a ghost town.

    News of the startling success spread to London and TV producers
    Travelled up to establish what made it so special.
    They left scratching their heads totally devoid of ideas why their act was perceived as funny.

    Another time the much loved Spike Milligan had a solo spot on a Royal Gala performance.
    Comedian Bob Hope was a VIP guest in the audience.
    Spike put a tea towel around his head and blew his cheeks out and announced he was Yasser Arafat. He then sucked his cheeks in and said he was Yasser Ara-thin.
    The audience were in uproar at such a bold bizarre idiotic joke.
    Bob Hope’s face was a peach as he look around at the audience in disbelief they could find that funny.

    The Jelly Piece song from Glasgow is great fun here but it’s indecipherable to a Londoner.

  210. Stan Broadwood says:


    Fuck Off and don’t annoy me.

    You think for some unknown reason that you have the right to decide who lives and who dies.

    I’ll tell you again, hopefully for the last time, get off my fuckin case you engerland bastard.

  211. Famous15 says:

    Stan what you are on is repulsive.

    Who mentioned “lives or dies” ?

    Shitebag racist!

  212. Stan Broadwood says:


    Are you quite finished???

    Did that get it out of your system???

    I’ll let you get back to all things english.

    I can’t believe I am wasting my time with some arse from South of the border.

  213. mike cassidy says:

    Sharny Dubs 9.43

    If the tropical part of your theory was right

    There would never be any reason for humans to move to harsher environments

  214. Big Jock says:

    For the record.

    I suppose I am a civic nationalist, but I am also an instinctive nationalist. First and foremost I want independence , because I am Scottish. I speak only for myself , as it’s how I feel.

    At the same time I think anyone who moves to Scotland and comes to view themselves as Scots, then good on them. Everyone should be welcome to our land.

    Having said that there is a big difference between being born and raised in a country , and simply moving to live in it. The same way that if I moved to France , I would always be a Scot in France. Never quite grasping their culture the way those born there do.

    We have nothing to fear from other cultures. Nothing to fear from talking about them. Nothing to fear from accepting them. Nothing to fear from expressing your own.

    What we really need to fear is others trying to suppress cultures , or worse deny their existence.

    It’s akin to trying to erase someone’s personality and identity. We are what we feel , not what others tell us we are.

  215. Sharny Dubs says:

    Mike Cassidy @10:20

    Expansion, competition for resources.

  216. stuart mctavish says:

    “Albaha” @9,39 am

    re ..can’t quite believe the SNP is shooting itself in the foot.

    It might not be funny, but we’d surely deserve it, if Scotland manage to qualify for Euro 2020 only to have Tommy Robinson get us kicked out because we failed to rise and be a nation again after becoming a region last January.

  217. Breastplate says:

    Mike Cassidy,
    Perhaps people who have been expelled from their society or have fled for safety.
    Perhaps we’re all descendants of ancient refugees.

  218. Stan Broadwood says:

    Lancashire definitely going into tier three.

    So pubs and restaurants in Blackpool will be closed later today.

  219. stonefree says:

    @ Abalha at 12:01 am

    They will follow the orders of Tony ,Marie and Jean
    The constituency in both Westminster and Holyrood has had chancers forever save one CM, although two very early one there is no information
    At times like this one misses Lord Sutch

  220. Liz says:

    Sounds like Garavelli knows the writing is on the wall.

    First time she’s ever said anything vaguely supportive of Alex.

  221. Robert Graham says:

    Not sure if this is a good idea I have just started watching the recent episode of Question Time from Edinburgh ,I forgot it was still running that’s how much interest I have in it .
    I Doubt if I will make it to the end without doing damage to what I am watching it on ,
    The real disgust I feel for this waste of space Dross is troubling and it’s just as well I am not within punching distance of this scabby pig faced serial Liar and that’s my attempt at being nice.
    The BBCs choice of the Audience ! Questionable at best this Tory party have at best a one in five level of support in Scotland , ,we haven’t backed this Party since 1955 that’s longer than a lot of Scots have been on the Planet and yet we get what looks like a 50/50 split.
    How much longer the BBC and the other media outlets can keep up this pretence of ignoring more than half of Scottish opinion and focus their output directed to a ever diminishing Unionist supporting audience is anyone’s guess ,the deep pockets of the English government using our money in a attempt to hold us hostage can’t go on forever, well it probably can because the big lie will start to come apart, for the last twenty or even more years the English media has pushed the subsidy junky lie very well and now it’s back to bite them on the arse, Scots won’t make Independence happen just like the Poll Tax English public opinion will ,
    The only saving grace the English government have is the current management of the SNP a trusted manager of the empires last colony they don’t pose a threat to their hold on Scotland

  222. Sharny Dubs says:

    Breastplate @10:37

    Funny you should mention that, I had a very good American friend who postulated that American was populated by individuals fleeing persecution starting with those on the Mayflower escaping intolerance in traditional England of the time, progressively moving west until you reach the west coast and can go no further. Presto you have Los Angeles, and San Francisco the ultimate “free” societies lol.

    My friend sadly is late, played a mean set of chamber pipes and taught English at college.

    Miss him muchly.

  223. Robert Graham says:

    o/t again
    Oh for Ducks sake someone has dug up Broon and is on wait for it the BBC , same shite since 2014 I guess we shouldn’t point it out too much IT AINT working chaps, but keep it up yer playing a blinder .

  224. winifred mccartney says:

    Scottish Labour too feart to appear on QT from Edinburgh. Says it all.

  225. crazycat says:

    @ Robert Graham

    Hang on in there – I gather from twitter that there is a good bit at the end.

  226. Stan Broadwood says:

    winifred mccartney 10.53am

    Good point winifred.

    No Leonard and no Rennie.

    It should be put to them when they come out of their shelters.

  227. Hatuey says:

    Thanks everybody who assisted in providing evidence to support my argument that national culture doesn’t exist in anything but extremely loose and meaningless terms.

    Good students of history amongst us will know that national culture cannot satisfactorily exist when it is predicated on an even more stupid idea, the accident of recent history that we call the nation state.

    How can we deny the existence of the nation state on one hand and argue for independence on the other? Is that a contradiction? No.

    The main reason we should argue and fight for nationhood and independence, is to free ourselves of stupid ideas of nationhood and culture that others entertain and use to dominate us.

    The nation state system itself is an invention like any other. It provides an organisational structure, like a sort of licensing system, but let’s not pretend for a second that there’s any justice, beauty, or even reason in it.

    The historical roots of any nation state can be seen to be full of historical accidents, brutality, violence, and plain stupidity. The United States, as just one example, is a towering monument to all of that.

    The goal for all people is to be free and prosperous and to live the good life. Sometimes that means we are driven to destroy nation states, sometimes it drives us to build them, and sometimes both.

    There’s no requirement for supernatural feelings about culture or nationality required in any of this. It’s perfectly reasonable and rational to want to improve your prospects in the world without all that garbage.

    The defacto accountancy unit in the world is the nation state system. We didn’t choose that, it’s just the way it is.

    If we can licence our nation state and take control of our own affairs then maybe we can improve our prospects in the world and do some good towards feeding people in this little part of the world that we call home. That ought to be enough for any of us to hope for.

  228. Breastplate says:

    Sharny Dubs,
    I’ve often wondered on rainy days in Scotland why anybody would want to leave a nice warm dry country but I guess it comes down to why does anybody want to move anywhere and the reason I feel that fits is they are leaving in the hope of something better.

    Sorry to hear about your friend and as a person who is absolutely useless with musical instruments, I appreciate those who can play.

  229. Ottomanboi says:

    A piece of existentialist wisdom.

    There is no traced-out path to lead man to his salvation; he must constantly invent his own path. But, to invent it, he is free, responsible, without excuse, and every hope lies within hIm.
    [Jean-Paul Sartre]

    Those who care for Scotland find themselves in a situation where such wisdom has resonance.
    Others have created that situation. We are free to change it.
    Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom according to Kierkegaard. If we are truly authentic, that is.
    No place for ‘safe’ in such a context.

  230. Abalha says:

    In reply to Stonefree at 1041

    They will follow the orders of Tony ,Marie and Jean
    The constituency in both Westminster and Holyrood has had chancers forever save one CM, although two very early one there is no information

    I am being a bit dim, not sure what you’re referencing, CM?
    Carol Monaghan?

  231. Abalha says:

    In reply to Breeks at 1058

    Re Roger Mullin, what’s a wee bit of a disappointment to me
    is that he didn’t leave Kirkcaldy to David Torrand and instead take on Shirley Anne Somerville in Dunfermline, he’d have walked it and she’d be out.

    Thoroughly unpleasant sort, right at the heart of the current leadership clique, had some dealings with her when at Yes Scotland 2014, piece of work.

    As it is her two challengers seem pretty hopeless and unlikely to mount a real challenge.

  232. SOG says:

    Mike Cassidy @10:20

    Population growth, climate change (the last two million years or so), predation, curiosity about what is over the hill, movement along a coast as shellfish are consumed. I’m guessing about the last three.

  233. Ottomanboi says:

    You conflate the ethno cultural nation ie natio/ gens with the modern political western term nation-state.
    They are not identical. Many nations have no statehood, Catalans, Scots, Uyghurs, Laps, Sikhs, Kurds…but they ‘know’ they are nations and in various ways struggle to retain that nationhood.
    I am a Syriac Christian, I have no state or country but I know I am part of a nation, a very ancient one.
    Some ‘nation-states’ are not nations Nigeria, South Africa, India, Pakistan to name but a few colonialist lines on maps. Stalin deliberately created republics by grouping ethnicities together so as to cause internal friction thus, in his view, preventing secessionism.
    Some of your reasoning has the flavor of that encountered on anti-independence sites.

  234. Andy Ellis says:


    “Den elpizo tipota. Den fovamai tipota. Eimai leftheros.”

    Nikos Kazantzakis

  235. Abalha says:

    For people who are SNP members and want to know candidates’ position on current GRA bill the ‘SNP Women’s Pledge’ twitter has started endorsing candidates;

    So far Sameeha Rehman in Stirling, Catriona McDonald Edinburgh Southern, Cllr Lynne Anderson Uddingston and Bellshill, Joan McAlpine Dumfriesshire, Chris McEleny Greenock and Inverclyde.

  236. Daisy Walker says:

    Re use of the word Candidate.

    Below is direct from the Electoral Commission:

    ‘In general, a person becomes a candidate for a parliamentary or local council election when their nomination papers are accepted by the Returning Officer of the constituency in which they are standing.’

    It would suggest that those currently up for selection, who have been tipped the nod and the wink, and are now ‘gaming the selection process,’ by instigating what appears to be ‘candidacy campaigning’ are at the very least deploying sharp practice against fellow snp members.

    Likewise, if they are fundraising for this purpose, prior to being selected, they may actually be taking money out of the system, if they do not get selected and that money is not there for the official candidate.

    It is not good practice.

    I viewed the ‘expert communicator’ Saeed Bhutta’s campaign video yesterday, and was deeply underwhelmed by the quality of the video, his presentation skills but most of all the content, empty rhetoric, devoid of any local insight, and absolutely no indication of any drive for Indy. Thank goodness his cousin – Justice Minister Yousuf can vouch for him, elsewhys he might get overlooked.

  237. MaggieC says:

    Kapellmeister @ 9.27 am
    You said ,

    “ The Gammons’ favourite comic The Daily Express has caught on that there are serious divisions in the SNP. Strangely enough they seem to have grasped – unlike some ‘serious’ journals – that the in-fighting isn’t just about the Salmond case. They even describe WoS as a “popular and influential pro-independence website”.

    Thanks for that as I never look at the Express ,

    Here’s the archive link to the story for anyone else that wants to read it .

  238. McDuff says:

    A countries culture is about it’s music , it’s dance it’s poetry , its literature and much more .
    To deny that is to deny the country.
    As much as I would like to indulge you stupidity further, I just can’t be bothered.

  239. Joe says:

    A lot of amusing denial of the basic human condition going on here.

    Its not quite on par with thinking its estrogen that makes a woman. But it is still quite off the wall.

    Any nation (people) who does not recognise itself as being distinct and with its own identity in a world of nations (peoples) who do will simply not last long. Nor in a world where the only barrier to international finance is the barriers set up by individual nations.

    Globalism is neo liberalism. Neo liberalism wants to separate you from any cultural or ancestral ties (the stuff money can’t buy) so that you are merely atomised, scattered individuals without any unifying feature that transcends the market which they dominate.

    The country
    The culture
    The history

    And your rights to your own homeland with it.

    The first major step is getting you to deny that you have any unique attachment to any of the above.

    After that its simply a matter of political and legal process.

  240. Abalha says:

    Hearing of yet more very odd goings on in Dumbarton.

    Maybe someone on here is a member? This selection process and the Sturrell strangehold on the SNP brings to mind this 1984 Orwell quote;

    ”We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end”

  241. Ottomanboi says:

    Andy Ellis 11:44
    EIMASTE OLOI ELEFTHEROI ……did the many but know it.

  242. Famous15 says:


    In the 1960s when I stood as an SNP candidate in Glasgow,on the doorstep you met comments like “Home Rule,Rome Rule” or “Orange bastard” and other endless nonsensical and conflicting comments. Later the Siol nan Gael wound up those concerned about “white settlers” stealing our houses,jobs and for all I know,our women ! These were real fears in peoples minds but required a political solution and not a racist hatefest.

    Stan your absurd labelling of me as being from south of the border and an “englander”and denial of my true identity is such an irritation. You so sound like a DCThomson commando comic and that is itself comical given your views or pretended views ,because I cannot believe anyone can be as thick as you pretend.

    Why do I waste my time replying? Because some may make the mistake of thinking your views are widely held in the independence movement. No I am no longer a member of the SNP but my political differences with their policies doesn’t alter my support for independence.

    Independence is normal.

  243. CameronB Brodie says:

    You know, I’m only human and I do have a temper on me. So I’d probably end up booting the fuck out of anyone who spoke to me in the manner some Winger’s think is an acceptable manner to address me.

    European Journal of Pragmatism and American Philosophy, Epistemology of the Self in a Pragmatic Mood

  244. Bob Mack says:


    Very good. Have a lie down.

  245. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack
    I’m fully in control of myself Bob, and don’t need any assistance or instruction. Though your concern is noted. 😉

  246. Hatuey says:

    And now I have a teenager from The Levant quoting Sartre and telling me that my reasoning is not the right “flavor” and doesn’t sit well with his ancient sense of national identity.

    At the root of all this madness is an assumption that you can rightly claim to have pride in things that were handed to you at birth, things like language, skin-colour, birthplace, and other stuff that you played no part in.

    And, of course, there’s a reason the under-achievers of the world gather under these sort of flags. It’s not complicated.

    “We the people who happen to have been born here and who happen to speak the same language and eat the same crap food, do hereby claim – having achieved very little ourselves in this world – ancient right of ownership over everything that others who once lived here achieved so that we may set ourselves apart as superiors amongst other more ordinary men… and we deserve some cash… blah, blah, blah.”

    Familiar, isn’t it? But I’m not sure what particular nation that recipe for political success derives from. You’ll find it all over the place, from Mussolini’s Italy to Trump’s America. And, of course, you’ll find it plastered everywhere in Brexit Britain.

    That’s not independence. That’s one of the most globalist arguments you’ll ever hear. They wheel it out everywhere when it suits them, and they’d love us to fall for it so that they could wheel it out here too.

  247. Joe says:

    I love how CBB still managed to get a wee link in with his ned hard man routine.

    Funny lol

  248. Joe says:


    Wow. Wait a minute.

    Who said anything about pride?

    Whether someone takes pride in their national heritage or not is besides the fact of them having a national heritage.

    Im not actually a proud Scot. But I am definitely Scottish by heritage, culture and right to this nation.

    You attempting to link this normal healthy outlook with what you see as some sort of totalitarian fascism really just paints you as the extremist.

    But that’s my whole point – its the globalist anti-nationalists who are the extremists here. Not the rest of us.

  249. MaggieC says:

    Abalha @ 12.01 am and 11.50 am

    Re Cunningham North seat , How much of it is to cause disruption against Kenny Gibson as he was one of the signatures of an open letter in April 2019 from this article in the Scotsman ,

    “ Politicians urge Scottish Government not to ‘rush’ gender change bill

    Fifteen senior SNP politicians, including three government ministers and a deputy presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament, have called for the Scottish Government not to “rush” into legislation they claim could change the definition of what it means to be male and female. “

  250. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see Joe is still a thing, like a rash or boil that needs lancing. The penny does not appear to have dropped for him yet, that my background includes a training in semiotics, phenomenology, meta-ethics, behavioral neuroscience, and stuff, so my btl aggression is reserved for those who I think appear to represent a threat to open society. That included Joe, in case he needs a bit of help in achieving self-realisation.

    Autonomy and morality: A Self-Determination Theory discussion of ethics

  251. Abalha says:

    In reply to Maggie C at 1258

    How interesting, wasn’t aware of that but could
    well be the case. However do get sense he may not be
    everyone’s favourite regardless of that.

    Nonetheless the carry on from Osama Saeed Bhutta is off the
    bloody scale.

    A reminder of his most recent very churlish, nae childish tweet.

  252. Abalha says:

    In reply to Maggie C, the archive link not working for me so here the signatories from the Scotsman article I think you’re referring to.

    ‘MSPs Kate Forbes, Ash Denham and Ivan McKee, who are all government ministers, have signed a public letter laying out their concerns about the increasingly bitter debate around proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act (GRA).

    ‘SNP colleagues Joan McAlpine, Ruth Maguire, Christine Grahame and Kenneth Gibson, along with their MP colleagues Carol Monaghan, Angus Macneil, Joanna Cherry and Patricia Gibson, are co-signatories.

    ‘The statement has also been signed by leading SNP councillors, including Chris McEleny, group leader at Inverclyde council, Caroline McAllister, deputy leader of the SNP group on West Dunbartonshire Council, Shaun Macaulay, deputy leader of the SNP group on North Ayrshire Council, and Lynne Anderson from North Lanarkshire Council’

  253. Sharny Dubs says:

    Breastplate @11:13.

    Ahh but think on it during those typical rainy Scottish days, without all that peaty rain there would be no water of life!

    Now there’s a reason for venturing out! Even if only down to the off-licence

  254. Breastplate says:

    Sharny Dubs,
    You are correct.
    I rarely drinks spirits myself and I don’t really mind the rain, not since I was a young lad and my dad told me that skin is waterproof.

  255. Daisy Walker says:


    Re OsamaSaeedBhutta’s latest tweet…’ day 3 and still no resolution’.

    To which one can only remind oneself,

    ‘Founder and Chief Exec – Scottish Islamic Foundation set up in 2008. Intending to hold an Islamic Festival in Glasgow.

    Given £400,000 in public money.

    Humza Yousuf a Director of same 2008/09.

    SIF folded months later, Audit Scotland reviewed it, found Inadequate Record Keeping.

    Officially folded 2013 with ‘nothing to show for almost £200,000. From The Herald 29/9/20

    So, Year 7 and still no sign and no record keeping of £200,000 of tax payers money. Looks knowingly at wrist watch.

    Fails to get a project over the finishing line, fails to keep proper Records of Moneys, fails to return or properly account for £200,000 of public money.
    Describes himself as ‘a communications expert’ when asked why he wants to be an elected rep, replies,
    ‘ I don’t know really, it just kind of came about’.

    Then posted on video, ‘because elected representatives are turbo-charged merchants of deep solidarity and empathy’.

    Sets up campaign with repeated use of the word ‘candidate’ prior to being selected – giving a strong impression that he has already been selected as the official SNP candidate – when – as he should probably go and find out – in this context the word ‘candidate’ has a clear legal definition. Improper practice, and easily described as ‘sharp practice’ towards his fellow SNP members also putting themselves forward for selection.

    Fit and proper person? qualified and trustworthy to be an elected representative and handle public moneys? responsible? competent communicator? professionally competent? Due diligence? Nepotism?

    All questions which come to mind. Thank goodness his cousin – Justice Minister Yousuf is there to provide support, particularly at this busy time of year, when he is also being supportive of his wife’s attempt to be elected as MSP also.

  256. MaggieC says:

    Abalha @ 1.17 pm

    Ive re-archived it again to see if this link works ,

  257. susanXX says:

    I tend to agree with Joe on this one – there IS a place for ethnic nationalism in Scotland, otherwise independence is watered down into a globalist hotch potch.

  258. CameronB Brodie says:

    If you’ve got a bit of epistemology and legal theory behind you, it’s possible to re-shape Scottish politics towards a more democratic state of health. It also helps if you understand a bit about the “philosophy of action” and public administration. So IMHO, it won’t be possible for Scots to enjoy the benefits of democracy until we bring our political and legal Establishment to support us, rather than themselves and British nationalism.

    Eric C. Ip: The Morality of Administrative Law

  259. Robert Graham says:

    o/t Aye Again

    Bawjaws playing chicken with the EU ( might be chlorine washed not sure yet) anyway Bawjaws playing to the gallery and as we all know that’s the English Nationlist Tory supporters who are governing this country ,

    That doesn’t include the Scots the Welsh or the Northern Irish just the English, don’t you just feel the love from our benefactors and really good friends in the South .

    The Ferrier story is still doing the rounds with the omission that the Tory minister for the eighteenth century Mogg refused to keep distance involvement by MPs out with the London area,this one simple move would have avoided the silly bloody MP getting herself into trouble ,

    As far as I know suspected infected virus suffers are still being offered tests in Scotland despite being from high infection areas in England , I can’t see the difference from what our stupid MP did in a moment of baffling bad decision making from a government directive of moving suspected sufferers all over the country because the English NHS doesn’t have the facilities .

  260. Abalha says:

    In reply to Maggie C, great, yes that one works.

    In reply to Daisy Walker, it really is quite the tale, Osama Saeed Bhutta.

    Can only begin to imagine what crap is going on behind the scenes at HQ – Constituency Association and between him, Kenny Gibson and Corri Wilson.

    Said it before but I really do feel for ordinary members, it’s a shameful way to treat the democratic process by all concerned to be honest.

    Kenny Gibson does not come out of it smelling of roses either, shame another strong, committed candidate wasn’t in the running, after all there’s baggage with Corri.

    Hobson’s choice in Cunninghame North, 3 crap candidates.

  261. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ethnic nationalism is a dangerous beast (see Brexit), and is not needed in order to defend Scotland’s legal identity from criminal constitutional practice. We simply need to remember Scotland and England gave birth to Britain, and England and has no legal right to impose its’ will on Scotland, and certainly not when achieved through sharp practice and legal pseudo-science.

    Fudan Journal of the Humanities and Social Sciences volume 13, pages 315–335 (2020)
    Interrogating Naturalness of National Identity

  262. Big Jock says:

    It’s better to think of your nation as like your wider family. It’s a collective relationship based on culture, identity and the very land itself.

    Our very personalities are influenced by the land of our birth. You simply can’t pretend this isn’t tangible. It absolutely is. Because people like Hatuey don’t feel the same way , they assume that no other person has the right to identify with their nation this way.

    Every one of us feels slightly differently about Scotland. However those like me who were born here , have a deeper sense of identity than someone who comes to liv here.

    Their identity is the country of their birth , or where they spent the majority of their lives. Hence many 1st generation Asian Scots. Cling onto the culture of their birth. As we go down the generations. Most Asians do feel more Scottish than Asian. It’s just a natural process of generational identity.

    I have Irish and Scottish ancestry. But I don’t identify with the Irish part. Because I have never lived there. It doesn’t pull on my heart strings.

    So St Paddy’s day is of no interest to me. The Irish football team is not even one I feel anything for. The Irish culture is very identifiable, but it’s not mine.

    The very word international can only exist because nations exists.

    A nation is a real thing , culture is a real thing. Our music , our mountains, our language, our Tartan Army , our humour. Every one of those things exist in Scotland. They exist in other countries , but they are not Scottish.

  263. Republicofscotland says:

    Okay it doesn’t bring us any closer to independence, still its a step in the right direction removing a heartless Tory.

  264. Republicofscotland says:

    So it looks like what we all thought might happen, a no deal Brexit, will probably happen as Johnson bemoans the EU for not caving in and giving the UK a Canada style deal. Johnson has intimated that we will do just great with an Australian type deal, as far as I know Australia doesn’t have a trade deal with the EU.

  265. Stu, here’s the trans top trump card. Many women are going to have to reevaluate their outdated views on necrophilia soon, or risk being called (sighorrorgaspscum!) ‘transphobic.’ Hilarious!

    For any confused, disturbed, disgusted (or maybe aroused) ladies, as a primer on this grave and brave new world of cold-cocked necrosex, may I suggest watching…

  266. Fireproofjim says:

    Big Jock
    You are right. It is “ the tug at the heartstrings” that is the true sign of your allegiance to your country.
    “Breathes there the man with soul so dead,
    Who never to himself hath said.
    ‘This is my own, my native land.’
    Whose heart has never within him burned
    When to his homeland he has turned
    From wandering on the foreign strand.”

    Walter Scott (and I know he was a Tory)

  267. Saffron Robe says:

    All nations have a right to self-determination and Scottish independence will be distinctly Scottish by definition. We should also be aware that for the most part Scots are a different race from the English. The Scots are predominantly Celtic whereas the English are predominantly Anglo-Saxon. The Anglo-Saxons are invaders to these isles and have, throughout history, sought to oppress the indigenous people of these isles. However, I agree with Big Jock at 9:49 am that it is our spirit which ultimately defines us and not necessarily our race. Scotland will rise again, not from the shedding of blood, but from the soaring of the spirit.

    A very good definition of nationhood is given by Derek Beales below. Apologies as it is quite lengthy but worth quoting in full:

    “A nation is essentially a social and cultural unit, that is, it is defined by the attitudes of men rather than the provisions of laws and treaties. Unless a body of individuals think of themselves as a nation, there is no nation. They need not have a state, a country, a religion, even a language to themselves. They may not belong to one race. Equally, a state may rule many nations, or only part of one. A nation may be divided religiously, a religion nationally. Those who speak a particular language may belong to two or more nations. Races are so impure that it is hardly possible to distinguish them. The only common bond essential to a nation by definition is culture. For ‘nationalism’ to exist, however, there must be a measure of self-assertion about the nation. There must at a minimum be an emphasis on the unity and distinctness of the national culture. Nationalism varies in intensity. There is likely to develop a feeling that the nation ought to have only one language, and that all those who speak that language as their mother-tongue should regard themselves as belonging to the nation. There may appear a desire for religious uniformity within the nation. It may be demanded that the nation be identified with a state. In the extreme case nationalists insist that their countrymen and the state associated with their nation should dominate over others. At least there is bound to be a tension between the ideal of the nation-state and the realities of nationality. The pure nation-state, embracing all members of the nation in a territorial unity, excluding all aliens, requiring uniformity of religion, language and culture, cannot exist.”

  268. Fireproofjim says:

    And also
    “Land of brown heath and shaggy wood.
    Land of the mountain and the flood.
    Land of my sires, what mortal hand ,
    Can ere untie the filial bond
    That knits me to thy rugged strand”

  269. wull says:

    The attempt to de-select Kenneth Gibson in North Ayrshire may well be linked to his opposition to the proposed GRA legislation. He has never hidden the fact that he would vote against it if it ever came before the Holyrood parliament. Besides Humza’s cousin, there is one other person running against him. I forget her name, but it is reported that her main claim to fame during the brief time she was the SNP MP, in a different Ayrshire constituency, lay in her ability with finances. Not the Government’s finances but, rather, her own. She apparently managed to run up the 7th highest expenses claim of any MP in the whole of the UK. All above board, of course.

    She could always claim that this was a deliberate ploy to embarrass all the many Tory and other Unionist MPs who came further down behind her, in these famous – or infamous – rankings. Just showing these grubby Unionists up, and making them feel jealous, she might say. Is it in her promotional video? ‘Anything you Unionist lot can do, we (in the SNP) can do better.’

    If probity is still a criterion for those SNP members voting in North Ayrshire, in the three-horse race between this lady, Osama What’s-‘is-Name and Kenneth Gibson, I’d say Gibson might still be in with the best chance. Like him or dislike him, his personal financial record after 20+ years at Holyrood might well commend him. I have never checked it, and know nothing of it, but never heard anything bad about it either, in all that time.

    It may be one of the advantages of not being a member of the SNP that no one high up in the SNP hierarchy can prevent you (or me) from communicating these things – even to those who ARE members, and will be voting.

    And none of the other so-called ‘candidates’, as at least one of the two would-be MSPs styled himself, can then shout ‘foul’, and run all the way to the high heid yins to close down the whole process. Which they might well do, or already have done, in the hope that these oh-so-unbiased ‘referees’ will now have the excuse they need to send off the sitting MSP from the playing field altogether. ‘Early bath, Kenneth – and, yes, it’s a red, and of course no one’s targeting you: these are just the (new) rules of the game. Didn’t you realise …? … No? … Ah, weel! Ye ken noo!’

    And by the way, Kenneth Gibson was the Chair-person of the Holyrood Committee on all things concerned with science. I don’t know, but maybe that’s one reason why he is opposed to GRA, and always was. Maybe, just maybe, he ‘listened to the science’.

    If so, now is the time some more SNP MSPs did the same. And not to the phoney science that’s trying to sell a dud, a physical impossibility, on behalf of some quasi-hidden big business interests. No. For goodness sake, listen to the real science.

  270. CameronB Brodie says:

    If only our legal Establishment respected the principles and doctrines of constitutional and international law, which they clearly struggle to get anywhere near even acknowledging.

    Netherlands Journal of Legal Philosophy, Issue 2, 2016
    National Identity, Constitutional Identity, and Sovereignty in the EU

  271. Joe says:

    ‘For any confused, disturbed, disgusted (or maybe aroused) ladies, as a primer on this grave and brave new world of cold-cocked necrosex…’

    This has been one of the funniest BTL’s. lol

  272. ‘Joe says:
    16 October, 2020 at 3:09 pm
    ‘For any confused, disturbed, disgusted (or maybe aroused) ladies, as a primer on this grave and brave new world of cold-cocked necrosex…’

    This has been one of the funniest BTL’s. lol’

    Thanks. It’s so deranged if you didn’t laugh you’d cry. Would have went much further, cos I have an incredibly twisted sense of humour but, well, decency must prevail. Unlike in the minds of these cockshocker loons. 🙂

  273. Big Jock says:

    Fireproof- My dad can still recite that whole poem from start to finish. It is a poem , that when read well can bring me to tears.

    The Lay Of The last Minstrel.

  274. Johnny Martin says:

    Republicofscotland @ 14:30pm:

    Oz doesn’t have a trade deal with the EU but wants one.

    The Canada-style deal isn’t, if you want a close relationship with the EU (have to say I would be happy being in EFTA personally), that much cop. Can trade a certain amount of goods in and then you get whacked with tariffs. Possible for certain ‘skilled’ folk to work in the EU temporarily. That’s nice, only for the ‘worthy’ folk this movement lark, no wonder Boris claims to fancy that.

    What Boris is pretending, and what the media and the rest of the Tories have also been pretending, is that they don’t understand that as someone leaving the club they were always going to receive less leeway than a country that is being lured towards the EU bloc. You don’t demand too much of a prospective partner, and then you hope they will want to become more closely aligned in future. This dynamic just doesn’t apply when you are going the other way; drifting out of the bigger player’s orbit.

    Whatever wailing the Tories might want to do, that’s politics. Furthermore, whatever the Tories have claimed all this time, the EU in fact ‘holds all the cards’ which is why it cannot be bent to Boris’ will.

  275. Sarah says:

    @ wull: Corri Wilson has a very good post on her facebook – the post is “NEC Refresh” and I thought it sounded totally sincere and the kind of thing we would want our reps to be saying and doing. Have a look and see what you think.

  276. James Che. says:

    When the English force took over Scotland and banned the Scottish language, when they said that Scottish dress was banned, when they passed laws to say you were alienswhen they deported thousands of Scots to colonies, did the people of Scotland lose their sense of being Scottish,
    No, hundreds of years later it appears that the sense of who you are is within you and goes with you where ever you go or travel.
    It is a stigma invented by others to try and categorise a people, to try and control people, to place them in a box pleases others…
    To be yourself, to have a sense of who you are and to know how you feel about your own version of culture and country is something that invaders of a country cannot claim victory over, they can forcefully subdue many things and traditions, but that inner being within yourself maintains a hereditary thought.
    With everything that has been denied to Scots in their own country and elsewhere over years, this has not stopped or prevented Scottish people feeling with conviction a connection to being Scots,
    People from all over the world still link themselves to having Scotland in their history, it’s who you are, not whom someone tells you you are.

  277. Hatuey says:

    If your desire for independence revolves around those cherished traits and things that you call culture, then I should congratulate you and bid you a fond farewell. You have all those things now which means there’s no reason for you to remain. Enjoy your independence.

    I have no interest in what any of you harmlessly do in your private lives but when you claim these things are components of your national culture, you are attempting to claim ownership of them and steal them from the rest of mankind.

    Burns is a good example; he was above all also an internationalist, not a nationalist.

    “When Nature her great masterpiece designed,
    And framed her last, best work, the human mind,
    Her eye intent on all the wondrous plan,
    She formed of various stuff the various Man.”

    The first thing Scotland’s independent government should do when we break free from the UK is ban kilts. Most of the things people today call Scottish culture actually represent the decimation of Scotland and the decimation of any lingering ideas that people here might have had concerning their place in the world.

  278. mr thms says:

    Republicofscotland @ 2:30 pm

    If the UK does reach an agreement with the EU it would make sense to have bespoke deals for each of the devolved governments and Gibraltar.

    Really cannot see the point of holding an EU referendum if the end result was a new UK agreement that could have been done without the need to invoke Article 50.

    By coming out of the EU, the UK does not need to follow the EU VAT regime which does not permit devolution of VAT to semi-autonomous regions. People forget the Tories in the Smith Commission wanted to devolve VAT.

    For me Article 50 has always been about facilitating constitutional change in the UK and it could could go either way.

    It could set up the dissolution of the UK or set up the beginnings of a federal UK.

    We know Scotland will get 70 devolved powers returning from the EU, but another 40 will be shared with Westminster.

    That arrangement will just keep the guessing game going.

  279. Andy Ellis says:


    Ahistorical etiolated balderdash. Why do all you roasters insist the Scots are uniquely banned from expressing pride in their nation, their culture and all the other apputernances of nationhood which are commonplace around the globe?

    Did the whole “civic nationalism” thing pass you by, or are you just trolling WoS BTL comments for the LOLZ?

    Why can’t Burns – or any of the rest of us for that matter – be both proudly internationalist and proudly Scottish too?

    Until we all reach the sunlit uplands of world government and universal understanding, democracy and freedom gie us all peace from your “kilts should be banned” idiocy.

  280. Stuart MacKay says:

    Republicofscotland @2:30pm

    They are talking about a deal but there’s nothing comprehensive that’s been signed yet, so Australia trades with the EU on the World Trade Organisation terms but with shared recognition of standards in various areas – WTO Plus.

    This,, from CNN has a decent overview. Ignore the reporter’s assessment that an “Australia-type” deal would be a catastrophe. He’s clearly not an optimistic chap like our Boris.

  281. wull says:

    Thanks Sarah. If it’s sincere, I will be glad of it, and may change my view. At the same time, I wonder how people rate Kenneth Gibson. I am not sure, but at least he seems sound on (i.e. against) GRA,

  282. Abalha says:

    In reply to Sarah at 342pm thanks for the tip on Corri Wilson’s FB page.

    She also put up a supportive post regards Osama Saeed Bhutta’s campaign ‘suspension’.There’s a very detailed response from a member of the branch accused of the breach, very good, very measured. A flavour:

    ”I’m a member of the Branch that Osama accused of breaching SNP rules. I’m writing this to firstly tell the truth about what happened and secondly to hopefully prevent you becoming embarrassingly embroiled in further promoting misinformation. The motion that Osama withdrew from the selection process over was not ever discussed at a meeting and so obviously it was not voted on either.

    ”It was in fact withdrawn before the meeting concerned took place. Neither did the third candidate in the selection process have anything to do with that withdrawn motion. And so you have two glaring inaccuracies in your posted assumptions and I suggest you check with those who gave you this incorrect information which you have since shared in numerous places”

  283. Famous15 says:

    I would not argue against things that make you feel Scottish and kilts are an example of clinging to what is a 19th century “borrowing” of more ancient Scottish Highland dress .

    What I do argue against is excluding those who would make Scotland their home and wish to make its future more secure. We accept generosity and the welcoming of strangers as some of our core values?

    There is a huge problem in denying identity ,sense of belonging and celebration of culture of indigenous people and the ills of aborigines and native Americans are examples. Alcoholism and poverty are not sought by the alienated. Scotland perhaps suffers perhaps a little of these .Self esteem is good for your health. My conclusion?

    Independence is normal and good for your health

  284. Republicofscotland says:

    This is quite an eye opener from Mr Lawson’s blog.

  285. Republicofscotland says:

    Stuart Mackay @4.27pm.

    Thank you Stuart for the info.

  286. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

    A lot of your comment rings true. An independent Scotland would have np need of kilts. The provenance of kilts is more to do with Walter Scott and the romanticisation of Scottish culture than anything substantial but it IS difficult. Kilts and other tokens of Scottishness are not entirely meaningless, although one has to accept the sentimentalism associated with these things. The kaleyard literature and the Sunday Post, execrable though they may be were readily accepted by the population(indeed gobbled down with gusto) highlights the devaluation of anything like genuine independence. It all seems shameful I suppose it is arguable that this kitcsh was the other side of the coin of colonisation and surely an early example of cultural appropriation. The strength of the Caledonian societies and their popularity within the imperial enterprise strengthens the impression of the depth of the the process in Scotland-along with the prevalence of Scots in the armed forcesfor the role by the
    experience of colonisation.
    Although these tokens and symbols are deeply devalued we are still going to have to enter some kind of discourse to decide what to do with these relics.They remain part of a defining
    set of symbols which wont just dissolve in the heat of new found independence. Things like the shortbread tin kaleyard culture will need to be rationalised in that new context.

  287. Republicofscotland says:

    Johnny Martin @3.24pm.

    Yes, I tend to agree with that, that Johnson thinks the UK should get a better deal than most, due to sheer entitlement.

  288. Shug says:

    Any money on nicola holding a referandum or election this side of the new year

  289. Sarah says:

    @ hatuey and Monsieur la Grenouille: I have it on good authority from a man who wears a kilt every day that he does so because it is the most comfortable garment. He wears any tartan his choice of kilt being entirely based on price. Having accompanied my husband when he tries to buy trousers and listened to his moans about tightness, waist height etc etc etc ad nauseam I think there is a lot to be said for the kilt!

  290. Republicofscotland says:

    “If the UK does reach an agreement with the EU it would make sense to have bespoke deals for each of the devolved governments and Gibraltar.”

    Mr Thms.

    Yes that would’ve been the correct and sensible thing to do, but Johnson and May, for that matter, didn’t allow any input from the Home nations governments.

  291. Sarah says:

    And the kilt seems to look good on all men.

  292. Robert Graham says:

    Shut @ 5:45

    Nope and I don’t think even Ladbrokes or Bet -Fred would give you odds never mind take a bet .

    Just as a matter of interest anyone know if any bookies are offering odds or willing to take the bet

  293. Robert Graham says:

    Oops I meant Shug with the last comment sorry

  294. shug says:

    Robert Graham
    All the bookies I have checks are only interested in the English party leaders or the US elections.

    Very unusual for them to offer odds on Scotland.

    Nicola is very wrong to just hang onto the original plan now no deal is happening. When the facts change you have to move with them

  295. holymacmoses says:

    I rarely write about myself but I’ll break the rule and write as short a personal piece as possible.

    Born in England

    Mother died when I was not yet one years

    No idea where I was until the age of five and only a few disturbing memories to trade with the present on that score.

    5 years and three months: Adopted by a couple who had lost two children of the opposite sex to me: one in childbirth and one at three weeks.

    My adopted mother was clinically depressive and live on vallium. She would go for months without speaking to me. My adopted father was rarely at home because he worked all hours.

    At the age of 12 years I had a vivid dream about Dumbarton and a housing estate there BUT nothing happened in the dream except that I visited the shop.

    When the opposite sex came on the scene I never ‘went out’ with anyone unless they were Scottish or had a Scottish name

    I married a man half-scot from Dumbarton who I met in the middle of England.

    Employment changed and the company moved us up to Scotland

    I settled here and felt completely at home and have never had one ounce of problem with Scottish accents. I realise that until I moved here I had always felt like a foreigner – but put it down to the adoption etc.

    A few years back now I found out that my natural birth mother was Scottish.

    For me Being a certain nationality is like

    ‘Ghost in the machine’ like it or not – it’s there and it will guide you if you let it.

    I am not religious and my favourite subject in many ways is Logic.
    This wasn’t a sob story. It’s trying to give one POV about whether belonging to a certain nation actually exists in the psyyche of people or whether it’s an artificial construct designed to lure and control folk

  296. shug says:

    I keep hearing this from the BBC to but if you take the Scottish infection and death rate and multiply by 10 to allow for population the English figure is always 2/3/or 4 times higher so they are in a much worse position.

    I have no idea how this compares to the EU but compared to England we are easily half as likely to get it or die

  297. Republicofscotland says:

    The SNP obedient wokies are being shoe horned into seats ahead of other candidates.

  298. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alcoholism and a propensity for gambling are classic symptoms of a culture benighted by internal colonisation, which Scotland has ample experience of. So the institutional assistance given to the gambling and drinks industries since New Labour got a kick of the ball, can’t really be considered socially beneficial. Evidence from the USA also suggests that the victims of structural racism are perhaps more prone to coronary disease, which Scotland is also plentiful in.

  299. Abalha says:

    And on that post re Osama saeed Bhutta on Corri Wilson’s
    post (I posted at 441pm) here part of her response, it looks like she AND OSB sent in the complaint. ‘OUR request’

    ”My understanding is Osama suspended his campaign because HQ ignored our request for this matter to be investigated. Quite a different thing. You would think if indeed there had been no email sent a simple reply from HQ would have sorted it? Whilst Osama felt suspension was his course of action, my decision for not taking the same stance is above and accurate”

  300. holymacmoses says:

    So maybe it’s starting to become time for the REAL SNP to put up a party

  301. James Che. says:

    Holy Macmoses, well said,
    There in lies that connection of heredity thought and feeling that cannot be defined or explained,
    And the following can apply or not to each individual as the case may be, for some of us we would like to keep old traditions and not so for others,
    It is not for one individual to decide after independence or to dictate a right or wrong of it to another, it will always be the case that a free and sovereign Scot chooses his own way unimpeded on his outlook and life.
    Otherwise we might as well stay attached to a uk that tells us how think , act , behave and what to believe in.

  302. CameronB Brodie says:

    We seriously need to get a proper grip of our legal and political systems, as their ingrained British nationalism and “ambivalence” towards natural justice, is guaranteed to cause serious harm to Scotland’s public health.

    The only way to do that is by stepping out from under Westminster’s unsubstantial claim to ownership of Scotland. Brexit re-interprets the legal obligations of the Treaty, which is part of international law, so is outwith Westminster’s powers to pervert. Constitutional law is there to support moral order, which certainly does not include empowering reactionary and xenophobic English Torydum.

    The International Indigenous Policy Journal
    Volume 2 Issue 1 Health and Well-Being Article 5
    May 2011
    Colonialism as a Broader Social Determinant of


    A proposed broader or Indigenized social determinants of health framework includes “colonialism” along with other global processes. What does it mean to understand Canadian colonialism as a distal determinant of Indigenous health?

    This paper reviews pertinent discourses surrounding Indigenous mental health in Canada. With an emphasis on the notion of intergenerational trauma, there are real health effects of social, political, and economic marginalization embodied within individuals, which can collectively affect entire communities.

    Colonialism can also be enacted and reinforced within Indigenous mental health discourse, thus influencing scholarly and popular perceptions. Addressing this distal determinant through policy work necessitates that improving Indigenous health is inherently related to improving these relationships, i.e. eliminating colonial relations, and increasing self-determination.

    Indigenous health, health policy, colonialism, mental health, trauma, social determinants of health

  303. susanXX says:

    I am proud to be Scottish, yes we have faults but at least we are aware of them. Exactly what do other cultures bring to the mix? I’m all for integration and assimilation. Multiracial yes multicultural no. Moral relativism has a lot to answer for.

  304. Hatuey says:

    I’d ban kilts, bagpipes, those wee Jimmy hats and everything like them, haggis, highland cows, Irn Bru, whisky, shortbread, the whole Gaelic language, and the old firm (or what’s left of it), and certain styles of mustache.

    Where Pol Pot tried to return to the year dot, I’d be much less ambitious and hope to return to the year 1707.

    It’s time the Scottish people grew up and stopped wallowing in English definitions of what they might be.

  305. Andy Ellis says:


    Most of us would be content for Stu to ban you from here and take spammer Brodie with you.

    However if you fancy leaving the country altogether I’m sure it’d be the fastest Crowd Funder target on record.

    Buh by now!

  306. Bob Mack says:

    @Andy Ellis,

    I’d chip in a few quid.

  307. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    I really can’t imagine why you think you’re anything special, but that appears to be your frame-of-mind. Which is a pity, as your ego lets you down and undermines your message. 😉

    Academic Medicine: April 2019 – Volume 94 – Issue 4 – p 512-519
    Educating for Indigenous Health Equity: An International Consensus Statement


    The determinants of health inequities between Indigenous and non-Indigenous populations include factors amenable to medical education’s influence 0 for example, the competence of the medical workforce to provide effective and equitable care to Indigenous populations. Medical education institutions have an important role to play in eliminating these inequities. However, there is evidence that medical education is not adequately fulfilling this role and, in fact, may be complicit in perpetuating inequities.

    This article seeks to examine the factors underpinning medical education’s role in Indigenous health inequity, to inform interventions to address these factors. The authors developed a consensus statement that synthesizes evidence from research, evaluation, and the collective experience of an international research collaboration including experts in Indigenous medical education.

    The statement describes foundational processes that limit Indigenous health development in medical education and articulates key principles that can be applied at multiple levels to advance Indigenous health equity.

    The authors recognize colonization, racism, and privilege as fundamental determinants of Indigenous health that are also deeply embedded in Western medical education. To contribute effectively to Indigenous health development, medical education institutions must engage in decolonization processes and address racism and privilege at curricular and institutional levels.

    Indigenous health curricula must be formalized and comprehensive, and must be consistently reinforced in all educational environments. Institutions’ responsibilities extend to advocacy for health system and broader societal reform to reduce and eliminate health inequities. These activities must be adequately resourced and underpinned by investment in infrastructure and Indigenous leadership.

  308. Bob Mack says:

    @Spameron B Brodie,

    Is that you back to not wanting to break the law now?

  309. Andy Ellis says:


    We’d all get on a lot better if you interacted with what people said, not what you wrongly infer Cameron. Oh, and if you just stopped splatter gunning the vomitus of your data mining all over the threads. I have a pretty keen sense of my self worth and don’t feel I’m any more special than the next person.

    You however have proven repeatedly that you’re probably special needs….but that’s rather different.

    As per usual, your link has absolutely nothing to do with our discussion, or the thread, or anything remotely relevant.

    Same old, same old.

  310. Lenny Hartley says:

    Wull, what a load of pish, Ken Gibson is being challenged because of his misogynistic bullying behaviour.
    21 members, activists and councillors of his constituency Have complained to SNP HQ detailing Gibson’s “aggressive and abrasive” bullying, “especially of women”.
    He is on speaking terms with only two of the six Cunninghame North Branches and and only two of the seven SNP Councillors in the Constituency.
    My Branch on Arran has done everything to try and Build bridges with him but he seems to have a personal vendetta against folk I know have been working hard for the SNP all their adult lifes and some of those have been party members for over fifty years, all because they stood up to him when he tried to circumvent partly rules to build his owner power base.
    As for Corri , so she claimed expenses, do you know what expenses are? I will give you a clue, Expenses are repayment of costs incurred in the Pursuit of your duties, if you work harder than others, you incur more expenses.
    I spoke to Corri for the first time last night, she is not pro GRA, in fact i was highly impressed by her commitment to Independence and reform of the NEC and like most of us on here wants to see a clear out of the Wokes.

  311. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack
    Is that you turning on me as well now. No wonder Scots lack justice and democracy. Our political and legal systems have pretty much guaranteed I’m to enjoy zero dignity at my end of life. So you’ve another thing coming if you think I’m not going to do all I can to maintain by biological and human rights, while I can.

  312. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    Do you really think yourself competent to judge me and my practice? I have my doubts myself. 😉

    #DecolonizeGlobalHealth: Rewriting the narrative of global health

  313. Bob Mack says:


    Just having a bit of fun .

  314. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Thought-provoking new blog post from Al:

  315. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack
    Gonnay no dae that? It’s confusing enough living in Scotland. 😉

  316. Jeremy says:


    Sorry, but re: the comments on the English and Anglo Saxons, that is a very out of date anthropological view which is no longer taken seriously at academic level. It’s now generally accepted that incomers to England during that period simply intermixed and interbred with the natives already there. There was no wholesale race replacement in what we now call England during the sixth, seventh or eighth centuries.

  317. Bob Mack says:


    I always remember the quote from the incomparable Phylis Diller. ” A wild is a curve that sets everything straight”

  318. James Che. says:

    What’s with the kilts issue.
    they were worn in Scotland before the English romanticised them. They were how you kept warm, they were your day clothes and your blanket, they were an indication of your family history, and in that respect they are part of Scotland’s history, history also covers nations all over the world, plus cultures from the past and present.
    Acknowledging the past good or bad helps our future choices,
    In remembering Scotland’s history, we now know more than ever, we have read have learned enough is enough, Scotland wants to break free, especially from stereotypes imposed on the Scottish people, but that does not mean we are ashamed of our own history,
    Just propaganda history, we do not wish to become a woke nation, where everything is destroyed. Including ourselves. pretending a new history.

  319. Bob Mack says:

    Not wild” .”smile”

  320. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @cynicalHighlander –



  321. Beaker says:

    2020 craziness continues.

    “Dogging” is trending on Twitter.

    I think it relates to walking your dog in a public park… 🙂

  322. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack
    I was wondering. Though I’ve no doubt we’ve all been badly let down as agents of international law and global constitutional consciousness. The rule-of-law requires our legal Establishment respects the law “universally”, rather than deffer to an outdated cultural tradition that considers itself above international law. Or deny medical philosophy and bioethics. However, this would require our legal Establishment to at least acknowledge the Natural law of things, which unsettles their British nationalism. So you can see why I’m keen to hand our organs of government their collective arse in public. 😉

    Third World Quarterly, Vol 22, No 1, pp 51–63, 2001
    Internal colonisation, development
    and environment


    ‘Internal colonisation’ is a poorly defined term, but no other phrase so accurately captures the full nature of the complex interactions involved. Here the term ‘internal colonisation’ is used in a broad but quite specific sense, to
    designate the process by which, on the pretext of ‘development’, large parts of many Southern states are still in effect being colonised by their own ruling elite.

    The process parallels in all important respects external colonisation and is in essence the same process, differentiated only by its geographical location. Just
    as towns formed a key link in colonisation, the use of political power to bring about enclosure and encourage the growth of settlements gives the elite the ability to develop both town and countryside.

    The urbanisation of the countryside and the expansion of towns are therefore each special cases of the desire to control land and use its capacity to generate wealth. The accelerated growth of urban settlements in the South has, however, serious implications for the environment. Thus the concept of internal colonisation helps explain the distinctive nature of environmental politics in the South.

  323. Big Jock says:

    Hatuey- Wants to nan kilts!

    This imbeceil knows nothing of Scottish history. It was not the kilt that was invented by Walter Scott.It was the clan tartan.

    Kilts have been in Scotland since Kenneth Mcalpine.The only time they were banned was after the Jacobite rebellion. So that’s who Hatuey equates with.

    Had enough of humouring this clown. Do us a favour and feck of With your pseudo utopian pish Hatuey.

  324. Big Jock says:

    Ban kilts!!

  325. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Nothing nicer than a lady in a kilt. Doh did I post that.

  326. Bob Mack says:


    It’s nice you inform about the ideals of law and morality.In a perfect world they would be admirable. Sadly ,this is an imperfect world where they seldom apply across the board.

    Ambitious yes, but that is all it is unfortunately.

  327. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m certainly not the stuffy kind, so however folk want to identify or conduct their business is fine by me, so long as it does not impinge on the rights of Others.

    However, I do understand that without a respect for the Natural law of thing, neither the law or public policy can support public health or democracy. Though that appears acceptable to the Lord Advocate, who does not appear to value bioethics or the existing fabric of legal doctrine, so is unable to support human rights or democracy. 🙁

    Handbook of Theories of Social Psychology: Volume 1
    Chapter 20: Self-Determination Theory

    Self-determination theory (SDT) is an empirically derived theory of human motivation and personality in social contexts that differentiates motivation in terms of being autonomous and controlled. Work leading to the theory began with experiments examining the effects of extrinsic rewards on intrinsic motivation.

    During more than thirty years since the initial studies, we have developed five mini-theories to address different, though related, issues: the effects of social environments on intrinsic motivation; the development of autonomous extrinsic motivation and self-regulation through internalization and integration; individual differences in general motivational orientations; the functioning of fundamental universal psychological needs that are essential for growth, integrity, and wellness; and the effects of different goal contents on well-being and performance. We have subsequently….

  328. Saffron Robe says:

    To be an internationalist you first have to be Scottish. One cannot become Scottish by being an internationalist!

  329. CameronB Brodie says:

    Bob Mack
    I’ve only just started getting into the swing of things Bob, I can do this all day. 🙂

    Btw, this is what the Methodology of the Oppressed and the Art of Law look like, so I hope our Justice Ministry is taking notes.

  330. Dan says:

    IMO Culture isn’t fixed and will evolve as society progresses through the passage of time.
    Artifacts and memories of the past will be carried forward by individuals and groups, but some things will be lost forever as they were not worthy or even capable of enduring life on earth for anything other than a short time… eg. things like the British Leyland Allegro or Ital fit this criteria.
    We used to live lives that were far more constrained and influenced in terms of our jobs, how we fed ourselves, how far we ever moved from where we were born, how we built built our dwellings and the materials used.
    Our exposure to outside influences was also far more limited.
    The rapid progress over the past 50 years has radically altered our society in terms of the movement of people from where they were born, and the supply of homogenized products we can choose from as production moves from what used to be predominantly locally sourced and manufactured wares, to now being supplied by national or even international companies.
    Hooses used to be built from stone and slate hewn from local quarries so that defined the work and look of an area. Now crappy, overpriced, character lacking, Brookside style beige / brown shitboxes are thrown up by the hunner from Eyemouth to Thurso.

    @Bob Mack
    If chicken tikka masala was invented in Glasgow then nan kilts would be a braw!

  331. Big Jock says:

    Hatuey wants to ban Scotland’s national dress. Think about that!

  332. Big Jock says:

    Bob – Nan kilts. As long as it’s the Currie tartan.

  333. robertknight says:


    Funny seeing BawJaws throwing his old Etonian teddy out the pram. (I wonder if it’s called “Aloysius” ?).

    You can almost hear him…

    “But don’t these foreign Johnnies know we’re British?”

    Just to add insult, NS is bleating about a no-deal. Crocodile tears! Should’ve got us the hell out when she had the golden opportunity to do so!

    And where Ian Blackford of the firebrand speach now? Filling out his expenses no doubt. Invertebrates, the lot of ’em!

  334. Dan says:

    Speaking as the son of a bagpipe maker I almost agree with Hautey…
    After a long weekend of clubbing to uplifting house and techno tuneage, I was regularly woken up from my recovering slumber on Monday mornings by the chronic sounds produced by the development of prototype drones and chanters.
    No human should ever have to endure such aural violence.

  335. twathater says:

    Just donated to FOR WOMEN SCOTLAND crowdfunder which runs to 15th Nov to challenge the SG about redefining women , please think about doing so people

  336. CameronB Brodie says:

    Of course, in order for our organs of government to sustain the vitality of Scotland’s cultural being, and the health of Scotland’s public, they would need to differ to the existential kernel of scientific and legal universalism, rather than the tradition of Parliamentary sovereignty. So they would need to acknowledge that the Natural law of things trumps their commitment to British nationalism. I can’t see that ever happening, so we’ll probably need to petition the ICJ ourselves. Unless we get a single issue plebiscite, of course, and argue our cause effectively.

    Nature’s Challenge to Free Will
    Autonomy and Self-Determination

    This chapter addresses the incompatibilist worry about DR-autonomy in a deterministic world. It is argued that concerns based on the dependence of one’s perspectives on the past are nullified when the perspective can be objectively grounded.

    For those perspectives that do not admit of objective grounding, the contingencies, efforts to authenticate them via a self-creating self are deemed incoherent. One must accept that both the autonomy and the power of human beings are limited and autonomy itself is not necessarily desirable in all circumstances.

    Since even an ideally autonomous agent, with unlimited powers, would have to accept arbitrary starting points for the determination of value, the inability to engage in an infinite number of justifications is not a limitation on the autonomy of actual human beings. The tentative conclusion is that autonomy is possible in a deterministic world.

    DR-autonomy, incompatibilism, determinism, contingencies, authenticity

  337. Andy Ellis says:

    Of the 339 BTL comments on this thread so far, 40 have been from 1 person.

    Anyone care to guess which person?

  338. cynicalHighlander says:



  339. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Andy Ellis

    Give it a rest

  340. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy Ellis
    Perhaps I simply know a bit more about this sort of stuff than most, so am more able to defend my biological integrity? You appear to have a problem with this, though I don’t see you offering much constructive insight or support for the cause. Yet you want to look down and judge me. Have you not been paying attention sunshine?

    Metaphysica | Volume 20: Issue 1
    Robert Lockie: Free Will and Epistemology. A Defence of the Transcendental Argument for Freedom

  341. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Discussion about ‘culture’ is always interesting and provocative.

    FWIW, I would suggest that a big factor in Scottish culture has been ‘resistance’. We’ve always had to be (more or less) united against some foe or other, and we’ve lost frequently over the centuries, have had to cede territory, assets, get dragged into helping the English build their empire etc. Glorious failures an aw that.

    We still want to resist, and we know what we’re up against – a Brexit we didn’t vote for, incalculable long-term economic bug-related damage, no prospect of nuclear weapons being removed, increasing unemployment, suicide, substance abuse, lowering life expectancy, seemingly endless Tory rule from London etc etc ad nauseum.

    But perhaps worst of all, we now realise that we channelled that resistance into a democratic political party which made promises we expected it to at least try to keep. And it hasn’t. It has utterly failed us on the one big promise which mattered, and we all know what that is. If they could’ve made good on that, we could all have started seeing to the other problems.

    Because whether we like to admit it or not, Scottish ‘culture’, in modern times, has been about exile, wars, suicide, depression, cheap alcohol, tobacco, illegal drugs of all descriptions, sectarianism, domestic violence, child neglect, hopelessness, self-doubt, and many other ‘unpleasantries’ which don’t qualify for support from Creative Scotland. Those things are part of what we are, what we have become, because we’ve been born and raised in a society which is outwith our control.

    There are plus points, of course – my generation (born 1963) and my father’s generation (born 1942) grew up in relative peace and comfort. We didn’t have to go to war. We didn’t starve. We were never made refugees.

    But what we shared with many generations of Scots before us, all the way back to the start of the 18th century, was an awareness that things are not the way they should be, are not the way they were – none of us had a say in the Treaty of Union. (Indeed, a vanishingly small number of ‘Scots’ are connected to any Scots who did.) It was an anti-democratic wrong that has never been righted. We did our bit by building, supporting and sustaining a movement spearheaded by a legitimate peaceful party pledged to fulfilling our aims – together, we have grown that movement to the point where even the staunchest unionists are openly saying that the game is up.

    But we’re no nearer independence. Not in real terms. Because we have no date for another referendum and the ruling party has never shown a jot of interest in the perfectly sound plan outlined here just yesterday.

    Now, our resistance is increasingly directed at the politicos who are exhorting us to wheesht for indy. How dare they take the shilling, get their slippers on and ‘shush’ us as we wait and wait for them to do what they promised? What do they expect us to do? Our resistance was all well and good when it suited their election prospects, and they made the right sounds then. Now, when we’re at the business end of the deal they made with us, it seems that we don’t quite understand the finer points of political culture – we really should trust them for a few more months, years…

    Fuck that.

    As and when there is a no-deal Brexit (which there will be, and we all know it), the people who took our votes and our trust for granted will find out first-hand the extent to which ‘resistance’ is part of Scottish culture. A lot can happen between now and May. I have no inside knowledge but even I can confidently predict this – post-no-deal Brexit, the people of Scotland will not continue to ‘wheesht’.

  342. Famous15 says:

    Interesting fact that the British military knock off early on a Friday.

    Who is absent?

    Yes. Them!

    I knew it!

  343. willie says:

    Saw the armed police shut down a gym in Liverpool.

    Makes you realise why the American Constitution permits citizens to bear arms.

  344. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Can I thank you for that as it is exactly as you say.

  345. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Famous 15

    They’ll be at a beer call.

  346. Andy Ellis says:

    @ Ian B

    Word, brother!

    We have to make sure these gradualist chancers don’t blow our chance of independence.

  347. CameronB Brodie says:

    If I actually put my mind to it, I can provide a universally comprehensive description of culture in one sentence. It is the semiotic fabric that enables humans to connect their own internal biological property, with the biological reality of the natural world. Simples. 🙂

    The Cultural Semiotics of ‘European Identity’:
    Between National Sentiment and the
    Transnational Imperative

  348. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Yup, you hit the back of the net with that one. 🙂

  349. Beaker says:

    @willie says:
    16 October, 2020 at 9:38 pm
    “Saw the armed police shut down a gym in Liverpool.
    Makes you realise why the American Constitution permits citizens to bear arms.”

    Ever consider that armed police were used due to lack of available resources?

    But if fuckwits keep breaking the frigging rules, thus extending the lockdowns, then they deserve to get scared shitless as well as fined.

  350. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    Aye the American constitution blah blah.

    Right to bear arms aye,in the woods to shoot bears if they really need too. Not to bear arms in the bloody city streets.

    No wae the citizens of a country should be allowed to carry fire arms.Total madness.

  351. Breastplate says:

    Ian B.
    Well said.

  352. AberdeenPict says:

    Ian B.

    Well said, and couldn’t have put it better myself. Nailed it.

  353. boris says:

    Tory Lord and supremo Andrew Dunlop

    “Attention should be paid to the machinery of intergovernmental relations, which needs to be strengthened.”

    “We also need to look at the cross-UK synergies, weakened since devolution, which need to be reinvigorated.”

    “We need to pursue a decentralized, pan-UK strategy for re-balancing the economy, driven by city regions across the country.”

    “This means moving away from seeing everything through a four-nation prism.”

    “Many of the problems confronting Glasgow, for example, are similar to those of Manchester or Birmingham. They provide embryonic structures which can be built upon.”

    “There are two years until the next Holyrood elections. Strengthening our union must be an urgent priority whatever our post-Brexit future.”

  354. Breastplate says:

    Yes, no great surprise that Westminster don’t like the way things have been going and want to get right back into the driving seat regarding Scotland.

  355. WhoRattledYourCage says:

    ‘willie says:
    16 October, 2020 at 9:38 pm
    Saw the armed police shut down a gym in Liverpool.

    Makes you realise why the American Constitution permits citizens to bear arms.’

    Christ, and that’s worked out well for them, hasn’t it? Their kids are pissing into kitty litter when their schools get shot up by mentally ill nihilists. Fact. Guns? They can jam them. Here’s a ground’s-eye-view of guns from a Scotsman, from when I lived in America; might open your eyes a bit.

  356. alba says:

    Ian Brotherhood@9.37
    This. Just this. Exactly.
    No other comment or explanation required. Thank You Sir.

  357. cynicalHighlander says:


    Couldn’t read to the end as…………

  358. SOG says:


    In my County, when they aren’t doing their specialist role, armed cops carry out regular police work. Most of the kit stays in their cars.

    I think this makes more sense than having them parked and waiting for a call.

  359. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, re. culture….It is the semiotic fabric that enables humans to connect their own internal biological property, with the biological AND SOCIAL realitIES of the natural AND MAN-MADE worldS.

    I’ll need to do better at getting things correct if I’m going to get all cocky about the game. So here another perspective that can possibly help foster a better understanding of Scotland constitutional incapacity, and the nature of our constitutional impairment and vulnerability.

    It also provides more insight into just how illiberal the GRA amendments are. Mkay?

    The integration of self-determination theory: Supplementing preceding and future models of disability


    Disability studies continues to grow as an emerging area of practice and theoretical research, branching out into sundry professions and frameworks. This expansion is leading to perpetual discussion of the more prominent individual (medical) and social models of disability as well as
    the development of more inconspicuous models.

    This paper reviews the dominant epistemologies attached to these models of disability with the support of an authentic case vignette from the author’s social work practice. It is argued that the supplementation and immersion of self-determination theory in established and future models of disability will enhance the models’ applicability to professional practice and better reflect the individual’s self. The integration of self-determination theory to models of disability is presented in multiple diagrams.

    disability, epistemology, self-determination, social work, models of disability

  360. stonefree says:

    @ Lenny Hartley at 6:48 pm
    ” Gibson’s “aggressive and abrasive” bullying, “especially of women”.
    only two of the seven SNP Councillors in the Constituency.”
    And then there is the “Money Issue”
    Gibson is nothing like a human being,Anyone who speaks up for him are following the Patrica Facebook post and that’s a crock of crap, where she blames one individual , omitting the rest
    2070 the selection should have come down to Kerr or O’Rourke,
    The latter is supposed to have withdrawn due to “health issues” and has never been seen again
    I have never heard both the Gibsons say anything about independence, they are both piss poor about finance, business including economics
    I posted within the last week the links about Gibson’s carry-ons 4 years ago

  361. Hatuey says:

    Well, I’m still not satisfied that there’s much in the idea of culture that makes sense or helps us towards the goal of independence.

    I like some of what Ian Brotherhood said but that spirit of resistance he talks about is really a rejection of culture (albeit someone else’s culture, which is fine by me).

    Anyway, I’m sick of all this looking back and looking forward – if we are ever to free ourselves of this Union, we need to be firmly focused on the moment and the here and now.

    If we can get rid of the fake lying careerists at the head of the independence movement – and that should be our immediate concern – we should be in a position to generate massive momentum behind a new leadership team and deliver independence in the summer of 2021.

    That’s got to the plan. We can argue about the sort of country we want to live in when we have one.

  362. Alf Baird says:

    I’m glad I found that one of the nine socio-political determinants of Scottish independence is culture, as noted in my book ‘Doun-Hauden’ in which an entire chapter is devoted to the subject.

  363. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alf Baird
    I’m sorry if I’ve parked by van on your lawn, as I’m sure you could do a far better job than myself, of introducing folk to post-colonial theory and stuff. 😉

  364. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hope folk appreciate I not simply hostile towards British nationalism or English Torydum, though it’s hard to seperate their DNA, and the latter is kind of a natural enemy of Scotland. I just know a bit about how to support public health and democracy, so I’m able to hand our government organs their collective arse in public.

    If folk are unable to value authentic culture a bit more, you can’t expect the moral foundations of liberal democracy to survive much longer in the face of neo-liberalism and the rise of the radical right.

    So it is imperative that we do all we can to ensure a legal respect for the bio-semiotic foundations of culture. So you can possibly understand why I have strong doubts as to the moral competence of the Lord Advocate’s approach to the law.

    Recognizing Moral Identity as a Cultural Construct

    Current research on moral identity shows that moral identity predicts moral action in Western cultures but not in non-Western cultures. The present paper argues that this may be due to the fact that the concept of moral identity is culturally biased. In order to remedy this situation, we argue that researchers should broaden their scopes of inquiry by adding a cultural lens to their studies of moral identity.

    This change is important because although some concept of moral identity likely exists in all cultures, it may function in different ways and at different levels in each place. We propose that moral identity is a context-dependent construct tied to varying social and cultural obligations. We argue that Western moral identity stresses an individually oriented morality, whereas, people from Eastern cultures consider a highly moral person to be societally oriented. We conclude by discussing the implications of this view for future research….

  365. Alf Baird says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Its good to see a discussion here about the significance of culture in the context of Scottish independence, not least because this key determinant of independence has largely been ignored by the SNP leadership. Scotland’s Culture Minister still thinks national culture is more or less limited to the arts, rather than explaining how an entire people think and act.

  366. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alf Baird
    It’s just a pity our government follows the rather narrow and elitist model of British cultural and social practice in most things. Though even the Tories aren’t sufficiently reactionary to deny women a safe environment in which to live.

    Problems of culture and cultural values in the contemporary world

  367. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, Brexit denies us all a safe environment in which to live.

  368. Saffron Robe says:

    Yes, Ian B., very well said sir. My worry is that Covid-19 restrictions will be enforced to prevent the right to public protest, with Nicola Sturgeon seemingly in (covert) collusion with Westminster.

  369. CameronB Brodie says:

    The reason I keep looking to Brazil for evidence to support my argument, is that Brazil is the world’s most diverse nation state, and faces horrendous social justice problems related to the colonial past. So I’m just desperate to help folk understand the danger our legal Establishment poses to all our futures, as their “ambivalence” towards the Natural law of things only supports misogynistic social inequality and authoritarian racism (see Brexit).

    Ambiente & Sociedad, vol.2, July 03, 2020
    Editorial N° 03/2020 The COVID-19 epoch: Interdisciplinary research towards a new just and sustainable ethic

    ….But the illusions of a world “post-COVID” fairer, less consumerist, and supportive quickly vanished through the air. Exceptions, as a form of resistance, are spaces of hope, authentic “invented spaces of action” (MIRAFTAB, 2016), in which insurgent collective actions of reaction and mobilization operate in the vacuum of inoperative public action.

    As the expansion of the virus left the spheres of the upper and middle classes (in fact, it was the mobility capacity of these classes that facilitated the spread of the virus around the world) and in the face of the erratic posture of government leaders for containment and confrontation from the crisis generated by the arrival of the virus, several initiatives were spreading in several regions of Brazil so that the more fragile populations and with less capacity of response, could face the pandemic….

    ….However, these crucial initiatives face an enormous challenge ahead: the continuity of a crisis that shows no signs of a close solution and, on the contrary, signals horizons of vast economic and social crises, submerging humanity in uncertainty. The main problem in this scenario, and which goes against the illusion of a “post-COVID” world, is that there will be no “post-COVID”.

    Although, in the following months, thanks to the tireless work of thousands of scientists around the world, we finally develop treatments for the disease. Or get the much-desired vaccine against coronavirus, what we will be looking at will be the continuity and resurgence of a system of social organization that excludes and degrades the most impoverished and weakened social groups.

    As has already been developed in several critical articles, the pandemic’s systemic effects can be addressed from different perspectives of analysis; however, all are connected between them. Since the economic approach, the natural and rapid spread of the virus through physical approximation and human mobility has severely impacted the neoliberal capitalist model, strengthened in recent decades by globalization.

    After the first cases in China, we have seen how the measures of restraint and social isolation, applied to prevent the spread of the virus, quickly paralyzed the second largest economy in the world, causing a cascade effect on several production chains, from the local to global….

  370. CameronB Brodie says:

    Saffron Robe
    That was pure fluke, don’t get spooked. 🙂

  371. twathater says:

    For Lenny Hartley and others re CULTURE

    A country and families left divided: the fight for Scottish independence | 60 Minutes Australia an ex pat Scot in ARRAN and the NO voters

  372. twathater says:

    Are the SNP NEC running SCARED of GRA opposers

  373. CameronB Brodie says:

    “….If successful trans people would receive a gender recognition certificate through self-declaration after six months, rather than requiring medical evidence and two years of living as that gender.”

    I don’t think this is quite accurate and diminished the danger the GRA amendments present, as they wouldn’t simply make it easier for folk to adopt the opposite gender in law, the legislation conflates sex with gender, thereby insisting the biological differences between the sexes are of no legal significance. This is counter to Office of National Statistic guidelines and best-practice in policy design. So in one stroke, the GRA amendments would undo all the hard-won legal protection natal women have managed to secure for themselves and children.

    Insisting that it is possible to change sex rejects medical science and bioethics. That’s bad. Mkay!

    Book Review: Before and After Gender: Sexual Mythologies of Everyday Life by Marilyn Strathern

    Written in the early 1970s by renowned anthropologist Marilyn Strathern, the manuscript for Before and After Gender: Sexual Mythologies of Everyday Life has remained in storage for four decades. Published in 2016 with an accompanying afterword by Judith Butler, this book is now available to read for the first time. Mari Valdur welcomes the opportunity to embark on this challenging and rewarding journey into Strathern’s critical interrogation of the mythologies of sex and gender that still shape everyday life….

  374. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, I didn’t actually post the passage I was referring too. Night, night. 😉

    “which have split the party. Proposals to make it easier for trans people to legally declare their gender have been paused until after the election because of the pandemic.”

  375. twathater says:


  376. Abalha says:

    In reply to twathater at 425am

    It’s unbelievable Caroline McAllister is a senior SNP Councillor. How the hell can she be deemed fit for local authority office but not fit to be an MSP?

    Some of the candidates who have passed vetting appear to have rather more serious indiscretions than a dodgy twitter post or two which seems to be what they are claiming she failed because of.

    Utter madness. Members have to get a grip of their party and more elected reps need to bloody well speak out.

  377. Abalha says:

    The Edinburgh Uni student, Lucas, from Yorkshire who spoke at the end of Question Time has written an article for the National,

    ”However, an exodus that effectively considers all elements of economic, social and political life represents a future that I, and all my Scottish friends, can really get excited about”

  378. Abalha says:

    The Record has resurrected the Jahangir Hanif kalashnikov story, but you do wonder why he passes vetting (other skeletons in the closet the Record ignores) but serving Cllr Caroline McAllister is failed.

  379. Breeks says:

    twathater says:
    17 October, 2020 at 3:48 am
    Are the SNP NEC running SCARED of GRA opposers

    Call it what it is. The NEC is out to sabotage the SNP chances of election, and the Trans/Woki grip on power and positions of influence seems unassailable. What a despicable and thoroughly rotten house Sturgeon has built.

    The BritNat media and propagandists are going to have themselves an absolute turkey shoot next May. I bet they can’t believe their luck.

    So much now depends on the Salmond Inquiry knocking Sturgeon off her rotten pedestal, or a rebellion at a grassroots level. What a contemptible mess.

    These fuckers are going to wreck Scottish Independence and they couldn’t care less.

  380. LeggyPeggy says:

    Twathater @ 3.48 am
    Abalha @ 4.41 am

    Thank you for posting the above link to the Times , of course it’s a stitch up by the NEC to stop Caroline standing as an Msp .

    “ Of the party’s decision to fail Ms McAllister during vetting, one SNP source said: “It looks to me like she was a scalp because she’s the convener of the Women’s Pledge.” Other party figures have disputed claims of an ulterior motive and suggested that content shared on Ms McAllister’s social media platforms had been problematic. “

    It’s got nothing to do with her social media as what I can see from it she has never posted any abuse on it , What about the abuse that is posted on social media by the * woke * members of the party to any women who dares to stand up for our rights , nothing is ever done about that .

    I would rather have her as an Msp than all the young * woke * who have suddenly appeared in the selection lists to be picked as the candidates for the constituencies . Caroline is worth more than all of the * wokes * put together .

    I see that they managed to quote that liar Teddy Hope in the story but I was at that meeting and he did not suffer abuse as mentioned .

    “ Teddy Hope, an SNP transgender officer, claimed in June to have been the target of abuse at a public meeting and online and that the party’s headquarters had done “nothing to address” the complaints. This was strongly disputed by the Women’s Pledge, whose members include the MP Joanna Cherry and the MSP Joan McAlpine. Both suffer routine online abuse. “

    Here is the link to the Women’s pledge statement issued at the time .

    As I said I was at that meeting and Teddy was told a few home truths about how women feel about our rights being signed away by the party over the GRA reforms and he didn’t like it coming up against strong capable women

    I’ll refer back to this from Rev Stuart ,

    And my first ever post here on Wings as I so angry at the time after reading Teddy’s statement about the meeting ,

    Here’s the link to the Women’s Pledge and can we get more signatures to it please ,

    And the link to their twitter account where they are posting links to the candidates who are standing for selection in the constituencies and who they support .

    Also remember that before the GE in December last year the candidates were sent out a mailer not to sign the Women’s pledge .

    So that tells you all you need to know about how the Snp view Women’s rights and women standing up for ourselves against the Gra reforms .

  381. Breeks says:

    Sturgeon demands eh? If I find it laughable, you can bet Boris Johnson and Cummings will be in stitches.

    … Sturgeon said it was “beyond belief that in the midst of a global pandemic and deep recession the Prime Minister is telling Scotland to get ready for a disastrous No Deal Brexit.”

    Beyond belief??? Jesus wept. Beyond belief if you’re Nicola Sturgeon mibees. Everybody else has seen it coming since 2016.

  382. Joe says:

    Its interesting watching the discussion reflexively move to the safe haven of culture.

    There’s more to a nation/people than just its culture. There is also ethnicity.

    The trouble is politically correct brainwashing has made decent people very uncomfortable about the realities of this. A bit like a kid considering for the 1st time that his mum and dad actually do have sex. Its just too uncomfortable to stare in the face.

    But the truth is a nation is not just culture. Nor is it just its institutions. It is also largely ethnic. That’s the inherited part.

  383. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Ian Brotherhood 9.37 p.m.: something particularly articulate and inspiring to wake up to btl, so thanks.

    I particularly liked the sentiments in your penultimate paragraph.

    These Covid restrictions are an excellent way of avoiding real scrutiny at the party conference and keeping genuine,independence-hungry proles off the streets, of course.

    And, as Breeks just said, any sentient being knew the Tories were headed at all costs for a Crash-out Brexit since 2016. Our 62% vote against leaving the EU was our sovereign golden ticket and Brexit itself was ultimate proof of the complete failure of the Union to work for one of its co-signatories.

    Open goal not just missed but the ball hoofed out into the street: unforgivable.

  384. Andy Ellis says:


    You’re answering questions nobody has asked. Where did anyone here say a nation/people was defined solely by their culture?

    What IS Scottish ethnicity exactly then Joe?

    How does one qualify as “ethnically Scottish”?

    Is there some Scottish gene we inherit?

    Are we only “ethnically Scottish” enough to qualify as Scottish in your eyes, or those of other deeply suspect blood and soil nationalists, if we were born here?

    Or if we’re part Scottish?

    Or if we’ve lived here long enough?

    Do the 9% of Scots born abroad count as Scottish if they live here and want to be considered Scottish….or is there some exam you want them to sit?

    Perhaps liking “Still Game”, haggis and bagpipe music is enough?

    What is it about the country being 91% Scottish born that makes you think there is any ethnic issue to even be exercised about?

  385. Andy Ellis says:

    @Tinto Chiel 8.31am (& Ian B 9.37pm)

    Sadly I’m pretty resigned to the fact that little or nothing of note will be achieved by the movement in the next few years. If there was going to be any movement within the SNP towards a more radical approach, I think we’d have seen it by now.

    Given the cover of Covid and the upcoming no deal Brexit the gradualists will continue with their Wishart-esque wishful thinking, win their majority at @HR2021 elections, then do exactly as they have over the past five years: SFA.

    That being the case, the question is what do those of us who are appalled at their inaction actually do?

    As it is now probably too late to force the issue of making the 2021 election plebiscitary in the face of the rank political cowardice of the SNP leadership, isn’t the only choice a “real” independence party?

    We patently can’t rely on the SNP to deliver, and I’m unconvinced the ISP will reach escape velocity though I wish them well. I’ve got to the stage I’m not sure I can stomach voting SNP at all.

  386. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Andy Ellis: practical solutions are difficult just now, which is why Covid is handy for both the FM (for obvious reasons) and Johnson (so any anti-Brexit demostrations can be avoided).

    Unless sustained pressure can come quickly from the SNP branches (and some may be waking up to how they have been hoodwinked) and this could be linked to some form of popular resistance, such as repeated large demonstrations outside Holyrood, we have few options now that the Covid button can be pressed at will to infringe our rights even further.

    I also suspect the Salmond Inquiry will not produce the smoking gun that many hope for which would prompt the removal of the leadership.

    The other hope of a charismatic, energetic list party with big-hitters emerging seems unlikely at the moment, but you never know.

    We really have been strung up like kippers.

  387. Joe says:

    @Andy Ellis

    I knew you’d reply lol

    I actually wrote at the end: ‘may the pishing of frilly panties proceed’ but deleted it before posting.

    Anybody who talks of the ‘sunny slopes’ of world government isn’t someone I believe will ever come to an understanding with myself and is certainly no Scottish nationalist.

    Ethnicity is as real as sex. Its a biological fact. There are some who want to pretend that sex can be denied and there’s those who want to pretend that ethnicity is not a factor. Well, they pretend that European ethnicities aren’t a factor. Deny this to a brown person and the same people go into fits.

    But to cut it short – your argument against me here is more of the stereo type you have had built for yourself (or more realistically have had built for you) rather than any position I actually hold.

  388. Joe says:

    There’s a saying that everyone knows:

    ‘Find out who you cannot criticise and these the ones who rule you.’

    You can then add this:

    ‘…then find out who you are not allowed to agree with and consider what they have to say.’

  389. Dan says:

    Aren’t the terms of “Brexit” not pretty much a given now? And if those terms aren’t bad enough then they will be exacerbated and prolonged by covid.
    Time to launch that lifeboat then First Minster, chop chop.

    Small nations have the ability to alter the trajectory they are on by playing to their unique strengths when compared to large lumbering states.
    Lesley Riddoch’s Nation series of films might be worth sharing around undecideds again to highlight what can be done.

  390. Breeks says:

    Breeks says:
    17 October, 2020 at 6:18 am

    “…The BritNat media and propagandists are going to have themselves an absolute turkey shoot next May. I bet they can’t believe their luck….”

    That was quick. Quoting me at me, but here’s just a taste of what’s to come… (Beware, it’s Stephen Daisley).

    Well played First Minister Sturgeon. You must be very proud of yourself. Scottish Independence thrown under a bus, just like Alex Salmond.

  391. Andy Ellis says:


    you fixation with using the frilly panties as a rhetorical device tells us a lot about your MO.

    I’m happy to be counted amongst those who wouldn’t ever come to an understanding with people like yourself. The idea that you, or those who think like you, are the judges or who is or isn’t a nationalist is for the birds.

    The position you hold appears to be as incoherent as what passes for your argument. Furiously constructing straw men that people are denying the existence of biological sex or that there are different ethnicities does nothing to convince us that you are arguing in good faith.

    Whether you are ill intentioned or just ill informed remains to be seen.

    Possibly both. Feel free to convince us otherwise though.

    We’ll wait.

  392. Daisy Walker says:

    With regards NS’s article in German? newspaper.

    It was a good article. I can’t help but think at the moment however, that people in mainland Europe sympathise with Scotland’s predicament, or don’t know and don’t care.

    Meanwhile we are months away from a no deal Brexit we specifically did not vote for.

    One might think a bigger priority for the FM – with polls at 58% – would be to communicate – as a matter of urgency – to the Scottish electorate, with regards what is coming at us, and provide a democratic means of choosing a different path.

    I’ve seen a number of suggestions based on articles in the Spectator/Alex Massie, etc, about unionists crying in their soup that Boris and co, don’t seem to care about the ‘damage’ they are doing to the union. With rather a lot of Yes supporters taking comfort from same.

    Here are some facts, with regards Brit Nat ‘incompetence’.

    May 2017 SNP win 56 seats at GE

    1st July 2017 Leslie Evans becomes NS’s Permanent Secretary

    June 2016 Brexit

    June 2017 GE – AS loses seat, Now is Not The Time – IR2 taken off table until terms of Brexit Known.

    ***July 2017 Edinburgh Civil Service HUB announced

    Oct 2017 first indication of AS actions – main ‘actions’ re this take place Nov 2017 – June 2018

    ****June 2018 UK Internal Market presented at WM

    ****June 2019 Edinburgh Civil Sevice HUB opens

    ****July 2019 NEC of the SNP attempts to De-Select Joanna Cherry – signs indicate NEC is now top heavy with woke careerists

    Oct 2019 SNP Official policy on Brexit is now to support a ‘peoples vote’

    It may not appear very dramatic – but the CS Hub, and the UK Internal Market bill – quietly and effectively dismantle Holyrood, cost millions to set up, and were complete from date of announcement to official opening in 1 year!

    That is not bubbling incompetence, and anyone taking comfort from articles assuming as much is getting smoke blown up their collective arses.

  393. Alf Baird says:

    Joe @ 8.23

    You mention ‘ethnicity’ which is indeed one of the socio-political determinants of Scottish independence. Social science researchers have no problem discussing ethnicity, unlike politicians or journalists for whom it seems a taboo subject for some reason. However in the case of any decolonisation we do need to better understand the root of the challenge, which does include ethnicity. According to the census (and hence to human geographers) the Scots are a distinct ethnic group after all, as are those peoples from other ethnic groups who happen to live and vote in Scotland. The census also tells us that people from England constitute the largest single migrant ethnic group to Scotland. This further suggests that demographics is also an important determinant of Scottish independence, as is ethnicity, culture, and language.

  394. Daisy Walker says:

    This from Stephen Daisley in the Spectator, re GRA.

    ‘As an outsider peering in on the gender wars, what strikes me most about the conflict is how women who refuse to go along with hardline trans ideology have been thoroughly abandoned by their erstwhile comrades on the left. Not just abandoned, but ridiculed, traduced, vilified and, if their foes get their way, excommunicated from polite progressive society, and removed from positions in public and cultural life.

    Again as an outsider, it all looks rather like an attempt at making bothersome women disappear, a vanishing of those who refuse to let their rights be vanished. It’s strange, really, when you think about it. Feminism has been at odds with conservatism for so long and yet it never occurred to the right to simply redefine women out of their rights. It took the left to come up with that.

    For Women Scotland have so far raised over £10,000 of a £60,000 crowdfunding target to meet their legal costs. Unlike their opponents, they receive no funding from the Scottish government. They need your solidarity, no doubt about it, but right now they need your coin more.’

  395. Joe says:

    @Alf Baird

    Thank you Alf. You are obviously more knowledgeable than I and better at presenting it.

    My issue is with those who want to paint any who accept ethnicity as a real factor in a nation as some sort of extremist.

    ‘Social science researchers have no problem discussing ethnicity, unlike politicians or journalists’.


  396. Ron Maclean says:

    Maxwell, S. (2012) Arguing for Independence p137 The cultural case.

  397. Hatuey says:

    It’s time for those of you got into bed with culture to push over and make some room for his best friend, ethnicity. Oh, you didn’t know you were walking into that sort of relationship Really?

    It’s a love triangle. These things always go hand in hand. I tried to warn you about the sort of people that tend to gather under these flags.

    But wait. What’s that banging? No, not that, there’s someone at the door…

    Oh, more friends have arrived looking for some fun. Let me introduce you.

    The big guy with the scars, that’s heritage, and his sidekick, the little greasy character, he’s called tradition… two of the most dishonest scoundrels you’ll ever meet.

    The more people that get into this bed, the more people you alienate, but good luck.

  398. holymacmoses says:

    Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘timidity’ will consign us to many more (if not permanent) years under Westminster rule.
    Brexit has offered an opportunity to leave . Sturgeon didn’t take the chance last December and now we have an SNP less than worthless in WM. in spite of having at least a couple of the best politicians in the UK
    However, money is the driving force for those still inclined to vote ‘NO’ to independence and we are now faced with no certainty about anything except that we’re going to get poorer inside or outside the Union and how much poorer depends on how much WM chooses to give us if we stay with them . Judging by recent behaviour and known personal attitudes about Scotland, what can we assume this Government will do for Scotland?

    I’m hoping that Kate Forbes (I’m assuming she’s not too woken-up) is ambitious enough to want the very big job and brave enough to go for it and sensible enough to realise what’s in store for her should she go along the path of ‘ Sturgeon watch and wait’. My cats do a lot of stalking but they rarely walk away from their prey – I’m hoping SNP doesn’t walk away from this golden opportunity.

    In saying what I have said about Ms Forbes – I mean only to imply that we need a confident, optimistic and visionary financial appeal to the Scottish people and that alongside folk like Dr Whitford, Mr Salmond and of course Joanna Cherry (who I personally favour for FM) we could and should win the day easily within the next year or two – after that – who knows.
    If Nicola Sturgeon would come down from her Ivory Tower and stop believing her own press, she is doubtless a useful asset. The problem is that I think she will be aware by now that her days will be even more narrowly numbered should we become Independent and like most who have power, they are loth to relinquish it. That is one of the most telling traits of Mr Salmond: Scotland first, last and foremost: but I bet he wishes he’d reckoned on Brexit because I think he might have stayed and all would be very different today.
    Mumblings over for today.

  399. Graeme says:

    @ Daisy
    I’ve gone as far as I can with the video so far I’ve only done the start sequence, in view of that and the fact we still don’t have email contact I’m happy to put it up on dropbox for you to download and anyone else who wants to view it, are you ok with that ?

  400. holymacmoses says:

    As for ‘culture’.
    ‘In the beginning was the Word’
    James 6th and 1st gave England its culture in a oner.

    From the ‘tradition of Guy Fawkes’ and ‘Gunpowder Treason’


    The ‘Holy Bible’ with his name emblazoned on the front page along with his status alongside God on Earth. All this self-advertising bound together with some of the finest language imaginable. Words designed to control, worship our betters (both seen and unseen) and give ourselves up to the greater good on earth. Enslave us to the Word and Will of that one God who is represented on Earth by the King of England.
    Giving people the power to read the word of God put the Papacy and the catholic Church on the back foot, although their use of ancient language maintained a mystery still present today.
    The Bible and the printed word, were critical in the following years of colonisation

    Shakespeare. Forget the Greeks and Romans ; the Wisest Fool in Christendom gave the world the new ‘psychology of man’ when the Folio edition of the ‘plays of Shakespeare’ appeared on the literary scene in 1623

    So, as far as I’m concerned it was a Scotsman that gave the English the cultural foundations of more than half-the-world domination.

    ‘The pen became mightier than the sword’

    And with all that money it became really easy to buy more swords and men if it became necessary. Literacy became the vital tool of business and betrayal.

    However Philosophy remained in Scotland and the best and brightest of those brains enabled Scotland to survive after the 45. ‘The Scottish Enlightenment’ was a turning point and the Tory SWScott is much more interesting than his books suggest. As has been said earlier , Scots are famous for struggle however, I think it’s more than that. I think the Scots are survivors and as Darwin didn’t say ‘it’s all about the survival of the fittest’

  401. Alf Baird says:


    Ethnicity, culture and language are each naturally developed factors which help define ‘a people’. They must be respected.

    Obliterating them, which is the aim of imperialism (and colonialism, and ‘ethnic cleansing’) does not show respect. We should remember that the UN was established to end imperialism, and where decolonisation is the inevitable outcome.

    We should therefore respect and protect diversity and here we should appreciate that in the British imperial context the Scots are a minority ethnic group suffering long-term oppression by another dominant ethnic group. This represents the fundamental and natural motivation behind independence.

  402. crazycat says:

    @ Graeme at 11.14

    I don’t know if you’ll see this, since there’s a new article up now, but if you and Daisy trust me, you could both e-mail me at yeseastayrshire [at] gmail [dot] com and I will send you each other’s addresses. I’ve put people in touch that way before.

  403. Graeme says:

    @ crazycat

    Yeah I noticed the thread “His Cotton Socks” and put the same message there, I haven’t put the message on “Liberty of Wallace because I haven’t seen her post there, but so far no response,

    Thanks for the offer to go between I’ll send you an email shortly

  404. CameronB Brodie says:

    “My issue is with those who want to paint any who accept ethnicity as a real factor in a nation as some sort of extremist.”

    Your man is actually a bit of an anti-Semite who is also hostile towards multi-multicultural tolerance. So he is simply playing the hurt innocent, in order to disguise his far-right political outlook.

  405. Daisy Walker says:


    many thanks. E-mail on route.

  406. Joe says:

    We are currently living under conditions where we must accept lies as fact. We must accept rank hypocrisy and double standards without comment.

    There are walls of taboo around certain truths. Once the walls are smashed by people insensitive enough to handle the personal attacks and criticism the more able brains can then start to present clearly what was hidden for people to make up their own minds.

    I identify as one of the former.

  407. CameronB Brodie says:

    You are a shill for the radical right, as you support the denial of science. Support for “herd immunity” and the denial of “climate change” are linked beliefs of the far-right. You also hold anti-Semitic beliefs which appear to be based on a conspiracy theory that was originally propagated by the actual Nazis, as a vehicle for the othering and persecution of Jews. In fact, this conspiracy theory appears to form the basis of your social cognition and political outlook. So you’ve blown any chance of any reasonable person taking you seriously, no matter you hard you try to hide your prejudice and claim victim status or reasonableness.

    Representation, Pages 331-348 | Published online: 27 Sep 2019
    Shifting Welfare Policy Positions: The Impact of Radical Right Populist Party Success Beyond Migration Politics

  408. Daisy Walker says:


    First main email address is playing up.

    Have sent you my second one.

    Have tried your drpbox link and all I get is Dropbox telling me about their cookie poliicy

  409. Alf Baird says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Unfortunately, too few Scots are yet to appreciate that independence is necessary in order to prevent the obliteration of an ethnic people and their culture by another ethnic people and their culture. The SNP presents independence as merely an opportunity to provide for better governance and a more equal society, but these are merely political objectives which may or may not happen after independence.

    The fundamental issue here is the need for the Scottish minority to escape from ongoing ethnic oppression within the British socio-political context and the inequalities which persist from that through an imposed and institutionalised ‘Cultural Division of Labour’ (Hechter 1998). Our desire for independence is therefore at root no different from Ireland, or Kenya, or Malta, or Malaysia or for that matter any former colony now an independent sovereign state.

    Colonial oppression, which involves ethnic and cultural oppression, first has to be removed in aw its mankit naitur before any ‘doun-hauden’ people can even think about governing themselves properly.

  410. CameronB Brodie says:

    Alf Baird
    I couldn’t have put it better. 😉

    Brexit: identity and community
    Social identity, personality and connectedness: probing the identity and community divides behind Brexit


    The UK vote to leave the European Union in June 2016 surprised and confounded academics and commentators alike. Existing accounts have focused on anti-immigration attitudes, anti-establishment sentiment and on the ‘left behind’, as well as national identity.

    This paper expands the range of possible explanations for the vote by considering a wider range of identity measures, including class and racial identities, and by considering in detail how ‘connectedness’ to others and to localities may have played a role in processes. We find evidence that racial identity was a factor in attitudes towards the European Union for White British voters, extending our understanding of the relationship between territorial identities, ethnicity and attitudes towards the European Union.

    Connectedness via networks also structures attitudes, with those with higher levels of and more diverse connections having more favourable attitudes towards the EU. Whilst these effects are smaller than those of education and age, they are nonetheless comparable with those of class and income, and suggest that we should be wary of accounts of attitudes towards the EU that fail to locate voters within their social contexts.

  411. Joe says:

    @Cameron B Brodie

    I don’t want to have to write this but im not being labelled without defense:

    No, the 1st anti-semitic conspiracy theories come from the bible as far as I am aware. But there are very likely others dating from the time of the Roman republic.

    The 1st most notable ‘anti-semitic conspiracy theorist’ to my mind of the last 1000 years would be Martin Luther.

    Besides – the 1st Soviet government which was responsible for brutal persecution and murder of millions of Christians, torture, gulags, mass starvation, the kind of secret police that Orwell talks about was represented by 80 to 85% jews.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote:
    “You must understand. The leading Bolsheviks who took over Russia were not Russians. They hated Russians. They hated Christians. Driven by ethnic hatred they tortured and slaughtered millions of Russians without a shred of human remorse. The October Revolution was not what you call in America the “Russian Revolution.” It was an invasion and conquest over the Russian people. More of my countrymen suffered horrific crimes at their bloodstained hands than any people or nation ever suffered in the entirety of human history. It cannot be understated. Bolshevism was the greatest human slaughter of all time. The fact that most of the world is ignorant of this reality is proof that the global media itself is in the hands of the perpetrators.”

    He also specifically names who the Bolsheviks were. His book ‘200 Years Together’ is blacklisted in English speaking countries.

    Here is an article by Winston Churchill that is related:

    Now here is the current leader of Russia talking to a room full of Jews saying the same thing:

    Now, I don’t hold modern people responsible for the actions of their forebears so I no person today can be held at all responsible. In fact some of the people who talk about this are Jewish themselves and are very honest and brave for doing so. But the ugly truth is very anti-semitic and I am not evil for pointing it out.

  412. CameronB Brodie says:

    The nature of your hostility and prejudice towards post-modern critical social theory, the EU, multi-culturalism, climate science, public health ethics and stuff, brands you as holding extremist, if not illegal, beliefs. Peddle your fascism elsewhere please.

    New Political Science Volume 1, 1979 – Issue 1
    Critical theory, democracy and human rights

  413. Dennis says:

    “It is not possible for content editors using the content management system to suppress or delist content” .. but it is probably possible for the administrators of the content management system to do it, and is definitely possible for administrators with access to the underlying database to do it

  414. Joe says:

    @Cameron B Brodie

    Oh, ok. Anti-semitism doesn’t enter onto your list now. That’s fine then.

    For the rest of that list I am guilty as charged. That puts that to bed.

  415. CameronB Brodie says:

    The nature of your hostile towards the Frankfurt School and critical theory, tells me you are an enemy of truth. Your bogus politics appear to be based on an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory employed by the Nazis, as a means of othering Jew. Your approach to science also convinces me you are not a democrat.

    The Palgrave Handbook of Critical Theory, 22-Jan-2017
    Critical Theory of Human Rights

    International human rights have become an important global norm that has increasingly been incorporated into international law and global conventions. Human rights are a key reference point of mobilizations by diverse groups and international nongovernmental organization (INGOs) in global publics and global civil society.

    And human rights are also often critically appropriated by domestic and transnational political struggles of political activists and dissidents. Yet human rights are also used and abused by regimes, global (legal, economic, and political) institutions, and powerful corporate interests stabilizing a profoundly injust global social order.

    Drawing from Frankfurt School theorizing and critically examining more recent discussions among theorists partly indebted to this tradition (Benhabib, Forst), this chapter reflects on contemporary human rights debates and their meaning for critical cosmopolitan theory and politics today. It is argued that contemporary critical theory offers an important lens to situate human rights in global and local social and material conditions while recognizing human rights as a tool in struggles for political freedom and global social justice.

  416. CameronB Brodie says:

    HOSTILITY, obvs.

  417. Hatuey says:

    Alf: “We should therefore respect and protect diversity and here we should appreciate that in the British imperial context the Scots are a minority ethnic group suffering long-term oppression by another dominant ethnic group.”

    In actual fact, many Scots were co-opted into the British Imperial project – notably Highlanders who played a central part in the British military – and many more again bought into British culture.

    That’s not an argument for supporting Scottish culture. It’s an argument against it.

    “This represents the fundamental and natural motivation behind independence.”

    No it doesn’t. There are perfectly rational reasons for wanting independence that don’t in any way depend upon loose definitions of, or subscriptions to, culture. Happy to explain, if you feel it’s going to help.

    “We should remember that the UN was established to end imperialism”

    The UN’s primary aim was to defeat the Axis powers. It’s origins are in the Atlantic Charter, 1941, and subsequently in the Declaration of the UN, 1942, which was very specific.

    Beyond defeating the Axis powers, its goal was to help reduce tensions and provide a framework for dispute resolution, making war less likely.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if there was some lip service paid to vague notions of protecting culture and some such in there somewhere, but it was never a main pillar and it’s certainly not one that anyone has taken seriously.

    Culture when you boil it down plays a complex part in society. It’s almost always used to reinforce class, entitlement, and invariably creates cultural divisions. And it’s changing all the time, so much so that it’s pretty much impossible to define in any fixed way.

    I’ve already explained how it often attracts racists and others who want to use it as a pretext for discrimination. Don’t blame me for pointing that out, it’s just the way it is.

    The argument for propping up the Gaelic language sums the whole thing up. By “propping up”, let’s be clear that we are talking about ploughing in millions of pounds that could be used elsewhere.

    Why do that? Who decided that propping up a dying language was more important than feeding say hungry kids? That’s what you’re arguing, right, when you elevate and argue for culture?

    Incidentally, the hungry kids and poor in Glasgow, as an example, are more direct victims of British imperialism than the Gaelic language is.

    I’m personally sick of people learning to play the fiddle or bagpipes and turning up saying they deserve money because they represent some sort of high culture that must be protected.

    They aren’t any more talented or deserving than a guy in Govan who sits stoned playing Pink Floyd tracks on acoustic guitar. If you think they are, explain why.

    The same could be said of many other things. Culture is a scam.

  418. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s certainly an interesting take on things, but appears to deny the UN considers culture plays a vital role in supporting democracy, and our potential to achieve sustainable development. Fancy backing up your claims in the future, as I’m not sure you really know what your talking about? TA. 😉

    The Fourth Pillar of Sustainable Development
    Culture – The Fourth Pillar of Sustainable Development

  419. Hatuey says:

    CBB: “Fancy backing up your claims in the future, as I’m not sure you really know what your talking about?”

    Backing up what claims? I just wrote about 8 million words.

  420. Confused says:

    if culture is “changing all the time” and “pretty much impossible to define” – how can you properly define what a “cultural division” is – or prove that it is “used to reinforce class, entitlement” (maybe it can protect)

    “culture is a scam / culture is racist / I dont like gaelic”

    either or fallacies : we either support gaelic or we feed starving kids

    silly statements and “does not follow”

    what a pile of shit – you write like a halfwit and if that was an attempt at an essay, it would be thrown back at you; that’s a rewrite-case, not an edit-job.

    – on reflection change “pile of shit” to


  421. CameronB Brodie says:

    It was largely mince and I think you’re already aware of that.

  422. Hatuey says:

    So you disagree, confused?

  423. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I appreciate I might have a lot to say, but I do know a bit about this sort of stuff and I’m only trying to be helpful.”

    Y’know what? I think people would find it a lot less irritating without the headers. Just post the links.

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