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Wings Over Scotland


From the archives #14

Posted on June 29, 2020 by

We were rummaging around semi-aimlessly in the vaults last night, readers, and we were rather startled to come across this:

Shows what YOU lot know, eh?

Wings, of course, is actually good at predicting stuff, so we DID see PM Boris coming, three years in advance:

Unlike certain people we could mention.

In that June 2016 article we were warning that a factionally-divided Labour were in no danger of winning the next election, although we were a few months out on when that might be (and to be fair we overestimated the number of MPs who’d have the integrity to quit Labour over Corbyn and join a new party):

So while we were on the subject of Labour being hopelessly unfit for office, it was fun to revisit another finding from the same May 2014 poll:

Ten years is 2024, which means that barring any dramatic unscheduled events, next year’s Holyrood election is Scottish Labour’s last chance to provide a First Minister before time runs out. If you’ve got money on it, folks, you’re a braver person than us.

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Tackety Beets

Aye, hinsicht……….as usual Rev you wisna far awa.
Blair MacD………a better nae say, still gettin’ up aff the fleer, even tho’ I have viewed the clip dozens o times before.
BM give Doris a run for his money at the “Bafoon Races”

bobajock

I remember vividly the ‘no way’s, the ‘nobody that stupid could get in’. That video … I watched that live, and agreed with the unionist … it could never happen.

Like Brexit, like Trump, like Bojo, like so many mad things.

The media < that is all.

Polly

That’s a stonker of a post from 2016. Labour are often self defeating and now it seems the snp is following that lead. You do have a very good record of getting political predictions correct, unlike many big named pundits or journalists. I don’t know what you’re like with poker but I wouldn’t bet against you in much to do with politics, you’ve been too good a Kassandra for that. Thankfully many independence supporters see that and do believe what you write.

Muscleguy

The Unionist parties just don’t get it. They are losing because so many do not see them as honest or competent. The SNP get marks for both.

SLAB and the Tories are still lying to folk, still taking them for fools. As for the other pipsqueak whose name and party i’ve forgotten who cares? Poor Charlie Kennedy knew what going into Coalition with the Tories, the Laird’s party would do to support in the Highlands and Islands. SNP support is increasing with every election in the Northern Isles. That sustaining short money might not last much longer Unionist folk.

The ISP is coming for seats on the List next year and it’s Unionists who will lose out. Tick Tock.

Jason Smoothpiece

In fairness Boris Johnston as PM who would have predicted such nonsense.

The Boris is now PM and we shall reap the reward of that mistake.

Ordinary folk in England voting Tory they are not like us are they?

However they are entitled to vote whatever way they want, for the Tories, for Brexit. It is their absolute right.

We are also entitled to vote they way we want, for example for independence…………….oh wait my mistake we are Scottish we don’t get to do that democracy stuff silly me.

Breeks

My feet are firmly in the “l know nothing”, camp.

On the 24th June 2016, I was 100% convinced that Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, and the emphatic democratic expression that Scotland rejected Brexit, marked the Constitutional watershed which broke the back of the cursed Union.

Scotland’s Independence was won. The Union was constitutionally untenable. Scotland would secure holding pen status for EU membership. All that was left was a ratification plebiscite, and the not insubstantial small print of physically dividing the U.K.

Do you all remember, back then there was an opinion floating around from, oh I forget, some lawyer, which explained the constitutional position pretty accurately and concisely, and ended up saying, “…don’t worry, the SNP are good on this, and have it covered”.

Feels like a lifetime ago….

Fucking politicians.

susan

Scary stuff Stu.

Vivian O'Blivion

So, Yes voters were inclined to believe in Boris Johnson for PM by a margin more than twice that of any Unionist party voter. Who’s got their finger on the pulse?

Gary45%

I think a big box of Brasso delivered to BM as soon as possible.
I can recommend a book by Fintan O’Toole called “Heroic Failure, Brexit and the Politics of Pain”.
Its a brilliant read, and helps explain why the UK voted leave.

Bob Mack

This is exactly why I listen to you Rev,rather than the various pundits so often found in Wings and other sites.

You predict the improbable and sometimes the impossible with incredible accuracy.

I know many have absented themselves from Wings due to your criticism of the SNP current ideological madness or indeed apathy, but once again you have shown you were telling nothing more sinister than the simple truth.

I say to them in all honesty that before the SNP give them what their heart desires,they will look like Miss Faversham, resplendent in cobwebs and mouldy dreams of the past, but bereft of Great Expectations.

Our time is now. Our aim is clear. We only require a leader or a party with the courage to make it possible.

Willie

Absolutely astounding how in 2014 only 7% of Tories thought Boris Johnson would ever become Prime Minister.

So what changed?

Even more astounding that the Beasts of England voted in a General Election for him. But maybe we in Scotland actually knew that.

auld highlander

And now we have Hair Force One with that awful fleg.

Astonished

As of tomorrow we are definitely leaving the EU. There is no possibility of an extension.

Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford said Scotland would not be dragged out of the EU against our will. Are they just all talk ?

I don’t just expect action tomorrow. I demand political fireworks.

Joe

Nicola Sturgeon/SNP leadership are there to say soothing things to keep you in order while the clock runs down to…something you’ll realise in good time.

Trouble is their bosses are on the slippery slope. When people find put the truth they wont be able to show their faces in public again

Joe

None of the official options that Scots have in front of them were ever going to lead to autonomy and self determination. Ordinary people do not simply get to walk away with a potentially very wealthy nation and live happily ever after.

Colin Alexander

Regarding the Forward As ONE indyref case. I welcome it and hope they win.

That it was left to a crowdfunding group of activists to do this, speaks volumes about the SNP.

However, indyref itself was NEVER the real issue anyway. The issue is that in the UK, UK Parliament is sovereign and so referendums are regarded as advisory unless legislated to be binding.

The SNP have no intention of holding an indyref even if the Scottish Parliament can hold referendums.

They have no intention of having a plebiscite election on indy.

Labour accepted the House of Lords would have to abolish themselves – so it never happened,

the SNP have accepted dissolving the Union can only happen with UK Parliament approval.

So, vote “pro-indy” if it makes you feel good at stopping some Labour or Tory candidate from being elected but, poor you if you think an SNP or pro-indy Holyrood majority will bring indy one centimetre closer; it won’t.

The Isolator

If only Nicola Sturgeon had put as much effort into pushing Scotland forward as an independent nation as opposed to saving the red /Yellow and blue Tories in England from themselves we would have been well on our way with it and at least a back door into Europe.

When she addressed the stop Brexit rally in London I knew we were goosed. She just threw it all away.FFS there aren’t enough face palms for the bold Blair in the clip above.

Joe

Just listened to Mr Hate Speech Humza talking about the challenge of institutional racism in Scotland.

O.K then.

No doubt the solutions to this very obvious (and real!) problem will involve more government action against the population.

Ottomanboi

and Scotland 2020, independence still an old men’s pipe dream…
whodathunkit?
Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold….OH YES IT CAN!
Are we holding the road map the right way up?

Joe

Seriously, ive not watched anything from the Scottish parliament for over a year. Probably more. Used to watch regularly when Salmond was FM. I knew not to watch it as id want to vomit.

Still im almost shocked at what im hearing with the knowledge that these people still get votes.

Scotland has been taken over by radical, cultural marxist, intersectional ideologues.

Thank fuck we are not independent just now.

Effijy

With regard to Boris paying £1,000,000 for an upside down Butcher’s Apron Flag
To be put on his commandeered airplane, have no worries, he is going to use it to
Visit Australia and New Zealand where they are upside down.

In the Northern Hemisphere Boris has instructed the pilot to fly upside down, especially
When landing to make the maximum impact.

Same train of thought he used with the Corona Virus.

In Boris we mistrust!

Ottomanboi

@Joe
Racism and identitarian politicking sure signs of idle hands among ‘the elect’.
Quality not quantity…maybe the SNP and its many complacent deputies getting a good thrashing at any future election might be the answer….or a total reboot?
We ought not to be in such a situation.
What is to be done?
The done that has been done is manifestly not purposive.

Polly

Bob Mack 9.24

Bravo and my feelings exactly.

Joe

Holy shit folks. Last post for a while honest.

But…they are going on about different things happening in the US. Talking about our privilege as Scots. Talking about events in the US as if they are relevant to the majority of Scots.

How can anybody cast a vote for ANY of these fucks?

Effijy

I don’t believe that any form of discrimination is positive.

Humza’s extensive speech listing lots of top jobs are all held by white Scots is suggesting that
The best person for the job should be bypassed in favour of another contender’s skin colour.

Are we not seeking a society where skin colour has absolutely no relevance?

We are quite new in becoming a multi cultural society.
I recall my shock as a child without a TV in the early 60’s seeing an Asian man. A Sheik with
His turban and long white beard.

We ran away from him fearing he must be the person your Mother said would take you away, if
You didn’t behave.

We have made great strides in integrating over these last 50 years and I know of no other country
Who make immigrants more welcome but yes we must continue to make progress but not by replacing one form of discrimination with another.

Colin Alexander

The SNP’s attempts to try and prevent Brexit made absolute sense if you accept the SNP knew independence wasn’t going to happen, or to put it another way, Scotland would remain part of the UK.

The reason they knew: When Sturgeon became the SNP leader, the SNP became a devolution Unionist party.

Capella

IIRC Nicola Sturgeon also predicted that Boris Johnston could become the UK Prime Minister, much to the derision of even the Tories. Lots of fingers on pulses.

William Habib Steele

Stuart, I wonder if you would comment on this article, which I find very alarming. It seems to me it makes independence for Scotland and Wales urgent, before Brexit happens.

link to davidhencke.com

dakk

Didn’t take long for thread to turn in to a Scotland too wee too poor too stupid, SNP bad diatribe.

Not much predictive insight needed to know that was going to happen on here.

Bob Mack

@Daak,

What diatribe? Nobody has mentioned too wee too bad or too poor. That my friend comes from you and you alone.

We here on Wings all want Indy. We want it tomorrow. We have faith in our ability to make a better country.

Sadly the leaders do not. Perhaps it’s them your remarks should be addressed to instead.

defo

Any tips for the 3.40 at Ayr Stu?
🙂

Can’t wait to see how psycho babble can be linked into this post.

ahundredthidiot

dakk

the problem with your argument is that ALL the evidence so far proves the theory that we are too wee, too poor, too stupid.

We are still tied to the UK. 2014 was a defeat. We are out of the EU. We are deploying mass economic suicide as we write.

without a shadow of a doubt – we, collectively, are too wee, too poor and definitely too stupid.

If the cap fits

Bob Mack

@Defo,

Unlike gamblers who hope for the best,Stu does analysis on facts.

Ps, Keep your money in your pocket.

robertknight

dakk…

Considering the repeated misses in front of the open goal that is Brexit, the SNP leadership isn’t just “bad”, they’re absolutely f***ing abysmal!

Surely you cannot expect a chorus of “SNP good” given the performance of NS, Blackford, Wishart etc. etc. Their collective mediocrity and wrong-headed approach to Indy is no accident, so just WTF is going on exactly?

Answers on a postcard to…

Josef Ó Luain

Given the scenes of utter fuck-wittery on Bournemouth Beach, no one should be surprised now as to why Johnson got to where he is.

Willie

Good to see sensible concise comments.

We got the lot we didn’t want, austerity, the hostile environment, out of the EU, Boris as PM and now a becalmed SNP who have put independence on the back burner.

And in terms of the hostile environment we can’t even do a thing about the atrocious lock down camps set up across Scotland. What happened last Friday was tragic, it was predictable, people and fragile people at that break, and this was a tragedy for all those involved.

On current form, if the Third Reich decided to create concentration camps across Scotland, operated by private companies, and managed by black shirted Border Agency Officers, does anyone think that Mr Justice Minister Humza would utter a cheep.

Of course not.

But you know what? Things will change. The current devoted devolutionist approach will change, and it is starting to change.

Vinny

Joe

I will agree with you on your opinion of the Scottish Parliament,,,it is a joke.

Full if grandstanding morons who love the sound of their own voices.

Sturgeon, Carlow, Harvey, Rennie and Leonard.

Surnames are approximates because I don’t give a fuck about any of them.

Holyrood should be converted into a foodbank for the people of Edinburgh,,,at least by doing that it would serve some kind of useful purpose.

dakk

@Bob Mack

‘Thank fuck we are not independent just now’ @ 10.51 am.

‘the evidence so far proves the theory that we are too wee, too poor, too stupid.’ 11.58 am

Too wee too poor too stupid or what?

Not that I’m not raging at SNP myself re the constitution.

It’s the too wee, too poor, too stupid that is so played out old fashioned unionism.

No opportunity missed, even when Stuart’s archived post was unrelated.

I thought the comments were not supposed to go OT immediately.

I’ll keep reading anyway,it usually sorts itself out 🙂

Bob Mack

@Daak,

That comment was Joe. I think you know his history. I am talking about Indy supporters.

Gary45%

So the Scottish Parliament is a joke!!
What does that make Westminster??

Famous15

Gaslighters out in strength .

Scotland does not deserve such insulting and ridiculous “ Visionaries “

susan

I think Nicola Sturgeon is busy trying to hoover up woke brownie points. Look at Scotland, SO progressive! Scotland is NOT progressive, Scotland is, overall, a small “c” conservative country. I’m sorry (not) but Jimmy Reid never appealed to me, Central Beltism no better than metrocentrism.

Alec Lomax

Vinny thinks that the Scots are incapable of governing themselves.

Alec Lomax

Susan: it’s the way you tell ’em!

hazelwoods

I was mocked in 2016 for my suggestion than we might have Trump, Johnson and Brexit to deal with. Most people said we’d not even have one of those, let alone all 3.

It must have been May/June as it was before the referendum. I wasn’t suggesting it as a worst case scenario. Something in my head said it was highly possible/probable. The way the media were presenting the three was pushing that type of outcome. And I blame BBC in particular for giving Farage the opportunity to spread his filth.

dakk

@ Bob Mack said

‘That comment was Joe.’

Yes,didn’t mean to give impression it was yourself, apologies.

Probably because it was so early in the thread for an off topic tired old unionist trope, I was triggered.

I shouldn’t have taken the bait.

As for keeping the pressure on SNP re indy,that must indeed be stepped up.

dakk

Famous15 says:
29 June, 2020 at 12:47 pm
Gaslighters out in strength.

Not half.

Stomach gas by the smell of it.

jockmcx

Why do people who sing about never ever ever shall be slaves,
want the word tory stamped on thier forehead just as thier coralled into thier pen?

jockmcx

‘The sovereign individual’ by jacob crackers daddy and
j d davidson.

Predictions among others’
.break up of uk
.deadly epidemic…(seal borders,discourage travel,keep hold
of our tax slaves dont u know)
I think from memory 2024 was thier big date!

Stuart MacKay

Follow-up from yesterday over that navigation satellite stuff. From The Guardian, link to archive.is

The title of the article should give you a clue: ‘We’ve bought the wrong satellites’: UK tech gamble baffles experts

Effijy

On a radio news report a representative of the asylum seekers of Scotland
Has just laid claim that guests of the Scottish Government living in hotels
Are afraid to breathe in their rooms due to the virus?

I don’t know what they want and feel aggrieved after all that we do for them.

Do they want us to send them back to their homeland, provide them with oxygen
Tanks in the Hotels, or send them to a detention centre where they might perceive
The air quality would somehow be better.

Cumming up with absurd stories like this just throws fuel on the National Front’s Fire.

Breeks

link to twitter.com

Heads up for the latest IndyLiveStream crowdfunding.

Remember, it’s only some of “Scotland’s” media which gets allocated millions from the Scottish Government….

I know who’d be getting the money if I was in charge…

Beaker

Just when you thought the world could not get crazier…

Iran has requested an arrest warrant for Donald Trump from Interpol.

Next up: Alistair Campbell replaces Dominic Cummings…

Dr Jim

Once you’ve worked out that Labour and Tory are not two different parties but one and the same thing then it’s not too difficult to understand the future

susan

Alex Lomax I’m not sure what you meant by that comment.

mike cassidy

Now that the transphobia debate is kicking off within the SNP.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

It would have been quite impossible to render this into Newspeak while keeping the sense of the original.

The nearest one could come to doing so would be to swallow the whole passage up into the single word transphobia

link to archive.is

robbo

In the name o the wee men!

link to twitter.com

Rockets don’t even ken the words.

Polly

Thanks, Stuart MacKay, I came across that link yesterday and maybe should have tried then to post here myself. But I only came across that article and others, after reading up on things you mentioned. Hadn’t known much about it before and thank you for first alerting me to that company.

As other people mentioned it is another example, like the ferry company that didn’t have any to the company making a tracing app that couldn’t, which shows the worst examples of incompetence I’ve seen in my lifetime.

Vinny

Alex Lonax 12.59

Can you tell me where I wrote that Scotland couldn’t govern her self???

I said Holyrood is a joke.

What the fuck has that got to do with an independent Scotland running her own affairs???

Holyrood is given an allocated amount from our real government (London) and told to do her best

It is a glorified council chamber.

Not an independent seat of government.

And it has no Party at this moment in time fighting to become an independent nation.

So I stand by what I said.

Holyrood is a joke,,,and it is full of jojers

Effijy

ITV News don’t seem to take any stories to a clarified conclusion?

First Boris is going to spend £1 Billion on New English School buildings
Across the country.

Then they say it’s for 50 schools only?

Next they say Boris is adding £560 million for repairs to all the other schools.

The School’s essential repairs only estimate for England is £6.7 Billion.

So cheery bungling buffoon seeks plaudits for funding one twelfth of essential budget?

Can the English actually understand English and basic Arithmetic?

Robert graham

Boris the head Clown is on in the background I guess getting over excited about saying his government are going to spend zillions of our money on Schools , aye ok Borris what about the new world beating hospitals , and the garden bridge or the bridge to Northern Ireland or the world beating track and trace app and not forgetting the easiest EU trade deal in history ? .

And this fkn Chancer and the rest of the the Circus are running the country god help us all.

Anyone ever actually met anyone who admitted to voting NO in 2014 ? .

So many promises

So little actually delivered , the public taken for total mugs when will folk learn ? fkd if I know .

dakk

‘Labour and Tory are not two different parties but one and the same thing’

Very true Dr Jim.

Any microscopic ephemeral pretence of a nuance whilst Corbyn accidentally flew around the lightbulb for a few seconds has been effortlessly swatted.

Sir Keir has immediately caught up in the polls and is standing by for when England gets bored with the blue Torys again.

England certainly knows and loves a Tory when it sees one.

Mind you, so does almost half of Scotland.

Andy Ellis

@Mike Cassidy 2.08pm

Interesting isn’t it that the men’s rights activists pushing the trans agenda within the SNP have a pretty “hands off” approach to commenting on J K Rowling isn’t it?

Perhaps JK’s very public take down of clueless Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle may be giving them pause for thought. It’s a shame more public figures don’t have the courage to stand with brave individuals like Rowling, Linehan, Forstater, Blindel et al.

Perhaps the tide is starting to turn…..?

Capella

Your 2014 poll illustrates how far down the popularity stakes the Labour Party in Scotland has sunk since then. It’s inconceivable that the prospect of a Labour FM would get anything like such a high score now.

Apart from Richard Leonard’s abysmal performance, we have Sir Keir Starmer in London dumping the left and refusing to say he supports women’s safe spaces. Nick Robinson tried him a few times this morning but he slyly avoided answering. This requires grown up discussion apparently. However, he is certain that trans rights must be protected.

We can confidently expect the Tories to continue to weaponise this as promised.

Rm

I’ve an SNP poster on my window as it’s been the only party you can vote for to end the union between four independent countries, it’s looking like there has to be another Independence Party or an end to the union will never come, why did the SNP not put up more fight and demand that Scotland stay in Europe or demand independence and try and join efta, I’ll keep the SNP poster up because you still hope there’s something underlying about to happen, I’ll wait a bit longer if nothing happens shortly I’ll be changing the SNP poster to hopefully an independent with a bit o pith, or maybe a Wings Over Scotland people’s party there are some great speakers on here, Breeks, Cameron Brodie, Robert Louis, Colin Alexander, Dr Jim, Republic of Scotland, Effijy, Capella, etc, etc, etc, etc they could form a great party.

callmedave

Swipe me with a Finnan haddie! ‘As my old journeyman used to say’

First time in a long time that big Auntie BBC live news announce verbally the daily death rate in English hospitals and a total for that measure.

Meanwhile the colonials three countries have posted the figures on the respective BBC websites.

Scotland………..today…..00…….Total……2482…BBC
Wales…………..today…..03…….Total……1504…BBC
N. Ireland………today…..01…….Total…….551…BBC
England…………today…..19…….Total…..28672…BBC
===========================================================
UK……………..today..no data…..Total…..no data.

WM will release an official UK total later once they decide what the figure should be.

Scotland’s fourth day in a row against the corona virus is minor news darn Sarf. 🙂

CameronB Brodie

Jason Smoothpiece
“Ordinary folk in England voting Tory they are not like us are they?

However they are entitled to vote whatever way they want, for the Tories, for Brexit. It is their absolute right.

We are also entitled to vote they way we want, for example for independence…………….oh wait my mistake we are Scottish we don’t get to do that democracy stuff silly me.”

Indeed, silly man. 😉

Full text.

Problematising the
Political Theory of Identity Politics:
Towards an Agonistic Freedom

Abstract:
Despite the successes of identity politics as the main thorn in the side of liberalism, this article suggests they share the same political morality in which the subject grounds politics. This kinship results from a common view of freedom, namely, as something exercised by the subject either a priori or a posteriori to social interaction.

With John Rawls, for instance, it is presumed that power relations are distinct from the subject, whence a self-mediated freedom that aims at autonomy, while for Charles Taylor power relations can be resolved in favour of consensus and kept at bay from the community, which enables freedom through recognition. Similarly, even when these opposing notions of freedom are reconciled in textual autonomy, an ontology in which power is the antithesis of freedom persists.

The article then highlights the aporia of these approaches: instead of discerning the constitutive relation between power and the subject’s freedom, accounts of autonomy, recognition and textual autonomy focus on the foundational relation between the subject’s identity and politics.

Subsequent to arguing that politics concerns the self-constitution of identity precisely because of the way in which freedom is the effect of power, a Foucauldian exit of agonistic freedom is proposed. Because it is the consequence of power, it implies a subject of contingent becoming, which in turn requires a permanent critique in respect of the supposedly necessary truths of one’s being that are encapsulated in identity.

Keywords:
Identity politics, political morality, autonomy, recognition

link to doi.org

Rm

CameronB Brodie

Rm
I was going to thank you for your consideration, but decline any interest on health grounds.

mike cassidy

Good thread for those who were mentioning the OneWeb fiasco.

link to twitter.com

And this will make your eyes pop out.

An interview from LAST month with the founder of OneWeb with the built-in assumption OneWeb was a goner.

I ask Wyler if we can classify OneWeb as a failure. He says using such a term would be “too harsh.” He adds, “But, for a global disaster, it would still be around. It has been in trouble. These type of companies live on the edge of trouble. What startup can spend $100 million a month and not be on the edge? If you are doing something difficult, going into unchartered waters, you are typically in a high-risk environment.”

link to archive.is

Lorna Campbell

Yes you were right, Stuart Campbell. The Conservatives/Tories often lead the way on radical changes, whether these are good or bad for everyone else, usually bad. Thatcher. Johnson. Not only was he in line for Leader of the Tories, but it has always been obvious to everyone but the most wilfully blind that he is no buffoon. He is a dangerous right-wing populist who plays the fool, and who loathes us. Be warned. He actually loathes us. Most of them do. They always have, because we will not lie down quietly and pull our thorny selves out of their side and allow them to do as they please.

mike cassidy

Andy Ellis 2.34

The Mhairi Black tweet seems to me a declaration of war against those in the SNP opposing the extreme transactivism.

And it would not surprise me if Joanna Cherry is the immediate target.

link to archive.is

Papko

@Lorna
“They always have, because we will not lie down quietly and pull our thorny selves out of their side and allow them to do as they please”

Did you not just do a lock-down?

Papko

RM
it’s looking like there has to be another Independence Party or an end to the union will never come, why did the SNP not put up more fight and demand that Scotland stay in Europe or demand independence and try and join efta”

Success corrupts, too long at the trough saps the appetite for change.

callmedave

Well that was quick today:
Official:

Scotland………..today…..00…….Total……2482…BBC
Wales…………..today…..03…….Total……1504…BBC
N. Ireland………today…..01…….Total…….551…BBC
England…………today…..19…….Total…..28672…BBC
===========================================================
UK……………..today……25……Total…..43575…BBC

PS:
FM’s inquisition at the daily update today was the usual ‘what if Scotland did…’ or ‘England has done this so…’

It was made clear that no consultation occurred between WM-Gov and the three devolved administrations on the ‘air corridors’

However ‘talks’, of some sort, will take place in the next two days and Scotland has a public health remit within the powers of Scot’s-Gov in Holyrood to decide what to do with regard to maintaining the progress to minimise the virus.

Now if the Welsh and Scots decide to say no and instigate some ‘health checks’ there would be reasons to be cheerful in spite of the some downsides. We will see! 🙁

PPS:

Hearts have a new ‘old’ goalie.

dakk

Capella said
‘We can confidently expect the Tories to continue to weaponise this as promised.’

Not if they don’t mind a short period in the wings whilst they leave their trusty red tory substitutes to paper over their brexit/pandemic catastrophes.

The first pick Torys will have achieved what they wanted.

No great purpose in being in hanging around whilst the greatest depression in UK history is in place.

Andy Ellis

@Mike Cassidy 2.34

Oh, she absolutely is; quite open in many of the comments. It’s actually quite entertaining watching all the TRA zoomers complaining about the SNP leadership not taking a lead and not investigating their complaints. I don’t think they do irony?

I note that @WomensPledge have called out the mendacious account from the original complainant. Be interesting to see if SNP hierarchy and disciplinary folks actually have to investigate this, or whether they will just bury it an hope it goes away just like they’ve ignored all the abuse suffered by Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine?

Capella

@ Andy Ellis @ mike cassidy – I see Mhairi Black supplies zero evidence for her “transphobia in the SNP” accusations.

However, the Conduct Committee is staffed by trans allies. That’s the group that evicted Denise Findlay and Neil Hanvey. National secretary Angus MacLeod appears to be a fellow traveller. Certainly neither he nor anyone else responded to my complaints about GRA reform, erasing the category “sex” from the 2021 Census and allowing men to sit on public boards as women.

Perhaps I will be evicted from the Party ?

BTW I thought Ian Blackford’s reply to Ms Black was superb.

Andy Ellis

@Capella 3.59pm

I wouldn’t trust Blackford and most other MPs, MSPs, office holders and activists as far as I could throw them. Unless they’ve specifically come out in defence of Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine against the sustained abuse they’ve suffered over many, months, they are tacitly supporting the rank misogyny of the trans extremists.

Most of them are moral cowards content to keep their heads down and hope it all goes away. Blackford et all are refusing to be overt about it and effectively advocate everyone having a group hug and forgetting about it.

It’s beyond me how those remaining inside the SNP can stomach campaigning shoulder to shoulder with some of these roasters.

Capella

Here’s the women’s Pledge response to the accusations circulated by Mhairi Black.

link to twitter.com

@ Andy Ellis – Re Ian Blackford’s response. It is very much in line with the Women’s Pledge response. What is wrong with calling for mutual respect, tolerance and open debate?

Allium

Blackford should have checked the veracity of the complainant before getting stuck in with his pompous lecture. I note he hasn’t addressed the misogyny that the SNP is currently riddled with, either.

Still, it can’t be fun for him, having won the plum SNP post at Westminster, with endless opportunities for self-promotion and exposure – yet all the while Joanna Cherry enjoys 50 times his popularity – and even UK wide recognition and respect thanks to her superior abilities.

Lochside

Effigy at 1.56…’I don’t know what they want and feel aggrieved after all that we do for them’

Maybe they want to be put back in their flats they were evicted from by the ‘Home Office’ proxies Mears to be crammed into substandard ‘hotels’, with shared facilities, in breach of ‘Covid 19’ guidelines with strangers. Fed on crud and given little more than a fiver a day subsistence. A literal stone throw from where for three days they could hear, see and smell the fetid fascist crew of loyalist knuckledraggers assembled and threatening anyone..but particularly ‘immigrants’?

Maybe they would like the Scottish Government the rights to protect them and offer them employment denied them by Westminster?

Maybe, they wouldn’t be so threatened if so-called supporters of a fair and free thinking Scotland didn’t have so many ’77’ trolls and fellow travellers like you with views not unadjacent to the ‘National ‘Front’ pumping out uninformed inhumane opinions on this site?

You and Corporal ‘Joe’, ‘DogTurd’ and others are stinking up this site with your deliberate diversionary alt-right wing shite. Why don’t you try a bit harder at pretending to care about a ‘Better’ Scotland?

Bob Mack

Those poor asylum seekers must find it hard to cope with thinking they are living in Scotland which has its own government, but are totally at the mercy of decisions made in the Home Office in Westminster.

Totally ludicrous.

CameronB Brodie

Those supporting the proposed GRA reform, wish to remove fundamental rights from biological women, in order to give a particular sexuality more rights. There is absolutely no legal justification for these proposals, which conflate “sex” with “gender”, and insist on the public acceptance of an anti-foundational epistemology (theory of knowledge).

In order for law to be universal and impartial, it needs to be grounded in a foundational epistemology, such as Natural Law, which is coherent and compatible with our scientific understanding of the human condition. However, in order for law to be bio-neurologically sensitive to the lived experience of individuals, law is best if it is grounded in a post-foundational epistemology that is coherent and compatible with Natural Law.

Sexual Orientation,
Gender Identity and
Justice: A Comparative
Law Casebook

link to refworld.org

CameronB Brodie

P.S. International law already provides the same legal protect to trans-women, as it does to biological women. So there is no need for further inclusion of men into the legal domain of womanhood. However, Westminster considers itself above international law, so there is still a mahoosive problem of legal injustice at large (see Brexit).

callmedave

Jings!

A whole 4 mins of what FM Sturgeon said (a watered down BBC version)on big Auntie news but no FM to be seen saying it again.

Probably because she was not singing from the correct hymn sheet.

She called out the WM-Gov on three things during her update session which had the extra bonus of no corona deaths for the 4th day in a row.

1.
Public Health in Scotland is within the remit of Holyrood and hinting she would use it to stop incomers from possibly spreading it if need be.

2.
Treatment of Asylum seekers in Scotland is also a function of the WM-Gov and it must change it’s policy and adopt a more humane approach.

3.
Along with Katie Forbes she called out the WM-Gov for it’s lack of response to tweak the rules to allow Scotland more leeway to borrow and use the money to tackle the post-corona virus economy the way that is best suited to Scotland.

Aye! Best not to show that to the BBC public darn Sarf!

Beaker

@mike cassidy says:
29 June, 2020 at 3:20 pm
Andy Ellis 2.34
“The Mhairi Black tweet seems to me a declaration of war against those in the SNP opposing the extreme transactivism.

And it would not surprise me if Joanna Cherry is the immediate target.”

I thought she was ordered off Twitter after the primary school visit, when she decided to insult her own constituents when criticised. 800+ replies including Blackford. Don’t know if he’s trying to save his skin.

Nice Twitter storm that is going to get fucking worse. Open warfare anyone?

callmedave

At last old Auntie BBC admits on Live News that the worst corona virus deaths in the world is in

The UK.

Among the four counties of the UK the worst is

England.

Lovely bar chart graphs and all. 🙂

WM spokesperson tried to deflect by saying there is more than two ways to calculate the figures…

Hope somebody with the skills can capture that one minute off film.

boris

One of the links between Goldsmith’s Referendum Party and the Tory government of Boris Johnson – Ultra right-wing political schemer – Dougie Walters

Scottish born Walters first surfaced in Scottish politics when he was appointed Chief of Staff for the Tory branch Office leader Michael Forsyth. His tenure did not last long as he was deposed by the St Andrews University mafia who brought about the near-death of the Tory’s in Scotland. Smith licked his wounds and moved to London where he quickly established himself as a key member of the Tory elite.

He became vice-chairman of the frequently controversial Federation of Conservative Students and was an adviser and speechwriter for several senior right-wing political figures and a number of leading Conservative MPs.

In the period before the 1997 General Election, he left the Tory Party and signed up to the Referendum Party as its senior political adviser to Sir James Goldsmith.

Smith was employed by Johnson when he was Mayor of London. And he was the principal speechwriter to David Cameron as leader of the Conservative Party. He also previously ran “C-Change” a Tory think tank set up by Francis Maude and heads of the political section of the secretive “Conservative Intelligence” unit.

He was recently appointed to the post of senior political adviser reporting directly to Dominic Cummings. His employment again brought into disrepute the pervading nepotism associated with Political Advisers who hold positions of power in government. They hold down highly paid non-jobs which should be given over to civil servants. Their introduction to politics is the single most damaging abuse of the electoral system.

But the scandal does not end there. He is a self-confessed hedonist and high stakes gambler who regularly frequents Aspinalls exclusive private members club in London and basks in another dubious claim to fame in his role as a sex party organizer for the rich and famous.

link to caltonjock.com

Sinky

Again BBC say UK has worst rate of Covid deaths in Europe when they mean England

Effijy

Lochside?

Are you for real?

The Park Hotel were the incident happened is a Radisson Hotel that includes
A Laundry Service, TV, Radio and WiFi, it has a Fitness suit and complimentary
Teas and Coffees.

It scored 4 out of 5 from 1,324 reviews

The complaint their own representative made was they were scared to breathe
The air in a 4 star hotel?

I am for supporting these people but are you telling me they have different air and facilities in
Some run down flat in the suburbs?

You are correct in what you say about Westminster controlling immigration so why isn’t their representative tackling them and not the Scottish Government.

How dare you say I’m a troll.

I campaign virtually every day for independence, God knows why but I’m still an SNP member,
I’ve knocked on doors for them and delivered leaflets and I’ve probably spent more than a £1,000
supporting Wings, SNP Candidates, Alex Salmond and Craig Murray and just about everyone who
Has fund raisers that I see here.

I’m hearing SNP Bad from this Rep on the Radio and spurious claims about Scotland isn’t doing
Enough for them. I’m not happy with it and I accuse them of not understanding what they gift right
Wing extremists and Boris.

Can’t you hear them say why are our pensioners not living in 4 star hotels?
Why can’t we get free internet,
Etc.

I’m on their side to give them a chance but we need them to help Scotland.

Vinny

Mike Cassidy 3.20pm

That post by Mhairi Black proves that the SNP have turned into a fuckin freak show.

I just can’t believe what they have morphed into.

And you STILL get the usual screwball Nicola Sturgeon Ra Ra Club members on her who will stand by her,,,,no matter what.

They can’t have it both ways,,, it’s either or.

Either Sturgeon goes, Or , there is no Scottish Independence.

Andy Ellis

@Capella 4.22pm

He should have been giving Black a piece of his mind, not pandering to her sophomoric woke idiocy. Teddy’s account of the incident has already been denied by those present. Both accounts can’t be true. Blackford’s sensible course would have been to call for a thorough (preferably independent) review of the incident. Any wrong doing could then have been addressed.

He is (as is sadly usual with the SNP leadership) trying to be all things to all men on this issue: it just won’t wash anymore. Sturgeon and her leadership team could and should have stopped the abuse directed at Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine with a couple of tweets. The fact they haven’t speaks volumes. A small cadre of misogynistic entryists appear to have carte blanche from the leadership to behave as they please. It’s quite obvious the ordinary members are powerless (or just unconcerned) about the direction the party is going.

Time for all of those who oppose these extremists to walk the walk.

dakk

Cameron B @ 5.09

‘Law is best if it is grounded in a post-foundational epistemology’

Have there been any more recent studies into how Norway, Ireland, Argentina and Malta have been getting on with their adoption of gender self id laws?

That study is quite old by the looks of the dates of the contributions, all pre 2010 and 20th century from what I could see.

It would be useful for neutral people to have a more recent overview of how gender self id is working in those countries who have put it into law and practice.

dakk

Properly peer reviewed studies that is, not from either extreme side of what appears to be a very bitter and entrenched battleground.

CameronB Brodie

dakk
What competence do you have to judge me as non-neutral? What’s your understanding of the law?

CameronB Brodie

dakk
I just understand stuff like justice and the rule-of-law. Sex is biological, where as as gender-identity is psychosocial. These proposals aren’t even competent in the language use in their drafting, ffs.

A Psychosocial Genealogy of LGBTQ+ Gender: An Empirically Based Theory of Gender and Gender Identity Cultures

Abstract</b
In this invited article, I present an inclusive theory of gender that clarifies its interconnections with gender identity, gender expression, and sexuality. To support this functionalist theory, I summarize findings from an extensive body of mixed methods research on lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, and other (LGBTQ+) genders in the United States.

I use a feminist-intersectional lens to empirically base and historically situate a theory of gender that is grounded in research of LGBTQ+ communities (butch, femme, bear, leathermen, transgender, drag queens, and family/house systems). I define genders as either sets of personal qualities within a culture associated with physiological sex or sets of qualities that evolve in reaction to limitations of existing genders.

The evolution of genders functions to meet needs in four domains: (1) psychological: an experience of fit between a core aspect of self and a gender construct; (2) cultural: the creation of an LGBTQ+ culture that asserts sets of gender characteristics, which were denied and stigmatized within preexisting cultural norms; (3) interpersonal: the communicating of affiliation and status to enhance safety; and (4) sexual: an erotic embodiment of signifiers of these needs via an aesthetic that structures sexual attraction.

I detail how each function affects identity, security, belonging, and personal and social values. Online slides for instructors who want to use this article for teaching are available on PWQ’s website at link to journals.sagepub.com

Keywords
gender identity, sexuality, LGBTQ+, gender, SOGI

link to journals.sagepub.com

CameronB Brodie

Sorry for bold throughout, I wasn’t meaning to shout.

dakk

Cam b
What competence do you have to judge me as non-neutral? What’s your understanding of the law?

Wasn’t suggesting you were not neutral,though as Stuart once said’we’re all biased’.

Was meaning people like myself and probably most folk on here or elsewhere who haven’t got much of a handle on the issue yet.

I have no understanding of gender self id laws at all.

That’s why I was asking if you knew of any research/papers about the experience of the countries which have been applying gender self id laws for several years.

Dan

Andy Ellis says: at 6:21 pm

He is (as is sadly usual with the SNP leadership) trying to be all things to all men on this issue: it just won’t wash anymore. Sturgeon and her leadership team could and should have stopped the abuse directed at Joanna Cherry and Joan McAlpine with a couple of tweets. The fact they haven’t speaks volumes. A small cadre of misogynistic entryists appear to have carte blanche from the leadership to behave as they please. It’s quite obvious the ordinary members are powerless (or just unconcerned) about the direction the party is going.

Did anything ever come of this from Mr J Nicolson?
Expand out the replies but obviously can’t see Rev’s responses due to those of a certain view getting twitter to suspend Stu’s account. Not ideal when Mr Nicolson asserts that “debate is healthy”…

link to twitter.com

Not entirely sure what this tweet is conveying in the now disjointed and incomplete context of the conversation, but it seems relevant that JN is saying the entire cabinet and FM hold the same view.

link to twitter.com

The thing that irks me in all this is that the SNP’s electoral successes over the recent yeas have all surely been accrued on the main issues of Independence and EU membership, and I presume from my activist experiences that a huge majority of the voters that elected all these SNP politicians are barely aware of this Self ID stuff.

I’ve seen absolutely nothing in either the dozens of electoral leaflets I’ve delivered, or membership emails I have received informing the membership about the GRA stuff.
Would have thought such an important subject would need a mandate from the people before it was implemented and not sneaked through off the back of votes that were given for other reasons.
Seeing as Scottish Governemnt Administration can now hold referenda, if they are so confident in what they are doing then why not put it to the people and actually see what the electorate think, thus separating it from the Indy and EU situations.

CameronB Brodie

dakk
No problems. I can’t point you to the experience of other countries, as this is a new legal trend and the results can’t be ascertained yet. All I’m going on is a legal training guided by the Royal Town Planning Institute. So I’m trained to follow a bio-neurologically sensitive approach to the law, that is capable of taking account of lived experience. I’m also trained in international human rights law, though I’m very rusty. 😉

By Reason of Their Sex: Feminist Theory
Postmodernism and Justice

link to ir.lawnet.fordham.edu

dakk

@Cam b

Thanks for link.

Will check it out later.

I was particularly interested in how the countries who have adopted self id are getting on with their law and practice.

There obviously two sides to this issue, but I only ever hear an entirely hostile viewpoint to gender self id on Wings.

Just trying to get a bit of what the other side of the argument is, that’s all.

Sinky

Channel Four news has glowing interview praising Scots Gov on Covid handling.

Watch on catch up or on 4+1 channel at 8 pm

dakk

Cheers Cam, that’ll keep me going.

To be honest,it’s such a touchy subject I think only the people with strong views are up for talking about it.

That’s why it’s such a polarised febrile battleground.

CameronB Brodie

dakk
I got where your coming from, and I’m sorry if I was a bit rude recently.

It wouldn’t be safe to make direct comparisons with other nations, as they have full control over their legal systems, where as we only pretend we do. These proposals may be well intended, but they will wreck the potential for social justice in Scotland. Remember, Scots law hasn’t gotten around to codifying legal protection for the economic, social, and cultural rights of individuals, and British human rights do not offer the same legal protection as international human rights (see Brexit). 😉

A Semiotics of Legal Argument
link to duncankennedy.net

Vinny

Can B

You seem to have been promoted to the dizzy heights of the Wings “Go to Guy”.

Congratulations on the promotion.

Hope your health issues don’t interfere with the increased workload.

Geniuses are few and far between on Wings, so we don’t want to lose ours to brain overload.

Remember and have some chill time,,, recharge the batteries and all that.

Go Cam.

Robert graham

BBC in overdrive attempting to sanitize Bawjaws scabby Tory government,

Quote from one of their presenters on the handling of pandemic broken down into each of the constituent parts of the UK , they don’t seem to get the UK is two kingdoms Scotland and England however that wasn’t the point ,

According to them in their opinion the handling of the pandemic in Scotland was and is slightly better than England , well by f/k people asking for our border with England to be closed Tonight doesn’t sound like they believe our next door neighbour is slightly worse ,The whole idea of closing a land border is not slightly panicky,

Closing a border means they are fkn Toxic disease ridden and carrying the Plague to put it mildly

CameronB Brodie

Vinny
Thanks but I’m honestly nothing special, I just have a particularly powerful skill-set. Which is nice. 😉

Mind in Life: Biology, Phenomenology, and the Sciences of Mind
Reviewed by Charles Siewert, University of California, Riverside

link to ndpr.nd.edu

Capella

@ Andy Ellis – I have no idea what Ian Blackford has called for. What I’m talking about is his quote in The National advocating mutual respect, tolerance and open debate which is absolutely perfect for an issue where “No debate” is the mantra.

If you’re hoping for an SNP civil war to be spewed all over the MSM I think you’ll be disappointed. The SNP leadership are so circumspect that Mhairi Black’s tweets are the outliers.

Most members never read twitter and have no idea what is going on. Ordinary members in my Branch were baffled by the trans issue and certainly not supportive of men declaring themselves to be women.

What has probably happened is that a resolution went to conference with an anodyne aspiration to promote equality and tolerance for the LGBTQ+ community and most members will have voted for that. Who would vote against?

TRAs have stated that they work “under the radar” and avoid public debate. They know that if their ideology was ever brought into the open they would lose the argument. Their tactics are smear, false accusations and threat.

They have been remarkably successful in many political parties, countries and organisations throughout the world.

Polly

Thanks mike cassidy for the link to the interview. His comment ‘dead on arrival’ was also interesting. He seems a personable and persuasive character and no doubt will go on to other things, even if UK government doesn’t get involved. His shrugged shoulders and ‘win some lose some’ attitude though leaves a bitter taste.

Joe

Sorry but this can only be said crudely – anyone who equates criticism of the politicians in Scotland and the utter shite they speak with being against indy is a total fucking vegetable.

Dakk, that would be you.

Polly

Seeing people talk about today’s strife I don’t know about anyone else but the Teddy thing has left me more optimistic than I’ve been for a while. Whether dealt with more privately than at the moment seems likely, or whether played out in public makes little difference now. It seems the boil is about to be lanced or explode of its own accord.

As Capella says trans activist, though very noisy, normally work under the radar. They’re annoyed with Nicola Sturgeon and her caution just as we are and are using this to get her to go their way at a quicker speed. I don’t believe she’ll like that one bit. Either way perhaps eventually she has to make a move, after all she’s been sitting on the fence too long, so something has to change and perhaps this will be it.

Joe

Honestly, watching that spectacle on racism in Holyrood pretty much shook me. How can anyone with the IQ over that of a lentil even try to justify what Holyrood has become? Of course its more about self respect – if you are happy, or even content to stay silent, with THAT mob of utter pish legislating for us then you need to re-evaluate your sense of self worth. What a dangerous fucking farce.

Scot Finlayson

Under Humza`s new hate law clusterf@ck,

what Teddy `felt` will be more important to what actually happened,

Teddy will be able to `feel` threatened whenever he wants and get some poor unfortunate charged,

if he doesn`t get sauce on his chips it`s because the chippy is transphobic,

if he doesn`t get first in the queue it`s because everyone there before him are transphobic,

if he gets stopped for speeding it`s because the polis are tranphobic

he `feels` it.

CameronB Brodie

Polly
Perhaps this might prompt some ethical leadership?

Full text.

The Oxford Handbook of Comparative Constitutional Law
Bioethics and Basic Rights: Persons, Humans, and Boundaries of Life

Abstract and Keywords
This article explores the connections between bioethics and basic rights partly by analyzing the basic legal norms of bioethics, and partly by comparing thematic cases from the jurisdictions of the European Court of Human Rights and the US Supreme Court, as well as some cases from other jurisdictions.

It focuses on two major lines of thought in contemporary bioethics: the first is concerned with the boundaries of life (e.g., issues of embryo research, assisted reproduction, and end of life decisions) and the second is related to the contemporary exploration of the frontiers of the human body (issues such as the use of human tissues and human DNA for research and other purposes).

Keywords:
bioethics, basic rights, human rights, European Court of Human Rights, US Supreme Court, life, human body

link to oxfordhandbooks.com

Joe

@Scot finlayson

You just criticised Hate Speech Humza. He isnt white. That means you criticised a BAME member of our community. Thats racist. How could you?

CameronB Brodie

Here’s one to help Humza’s legal re-edumication, as it’s kind of hard to apply the law equally if biological women are unable to effectively defend their legal identities. Just like Scotland under British constitutionalism.

The Lived Experience of Hate Crime
link to link.springer.com

Andy Ellis

@Capella 7.52pm

Surely the point is that Blackford and the rest of the leadership should have been down on the extremists pushing the “there is no debate” line like a ton of bricks months ago? The convenor of my former branch in Edinburgh Central used to have it on his twitter header!

I’m not hoping for anything. I now have zero faith that the SNP will tackle these extremists, still less discipline or expel them. It may be true that much of the general public knows little and cares less about the minutiae of this, but that could well change. However, many within the party are well aware of the issue and the debates around it. Many of them have complained and been fobbed off or ignored.

I don’t accept that Black’s tweets are outliers: she represents an influential and entrenched group of zealots within the party. They represent a clear and present danger both to the party (which is their own concern as I’m no longer a member) but more importantly to the Yes movement and prospects for achieving independence.

Capella

@ Andy Ellis – I’m puzzled by your stance. Evidence is that the Labour Party, the Liberal Democrats and the Greens are all well to the woke of the SNP on this issue. Granted that, bar Wales, none of them have the power to enact woke laws.

The GRA 2004 was enacted by the Labour Party in Westminster and adopted into Scottish law by the Labour party in Scotland. This is a Labour law.

The reason was – the ECHR had decreed that trans people were denied the right of a family life. The Church of England refused to allow same sex marriage. So the House of Lords introduced a bill to allow trans people to get a birth certificate changing their sex. Since then , same sex marriage has been made legal. There is no need whatsoever for the GRA to remain on the statute book. There was no need for it in the first place. But Bishops sit in the House of Lords. Democracy?

This has nothing to do with Scotland or the SNP except insofar as the SNP choose to support the trans agenda. Many people, weirdly, believe the unscientific drivel propagated by TRAs. Justin Trudeau, Canada – fully woke; Jacinda Ardern, New Zealand, fully woke; Leo Varadker, RoI, fully woke; Denmark, Norway, Australia, USA, Brazil etc etc etc.

So Nicola Sturgeon may not be the worst case of woke ideology. But we have to oppose this voodoo nonsense by whatever means necessary. There is clearly an enormous amount of lobbying pressure exerted to get trans ideology on the statute book, without debate.

liz

This now out in the open, not just twitter.
The National ran with Mhairi Bs diatribe first, probably Stephen Paton, who’s another woke bloke.

The Sun has now picked it up, so it will spread further.

They have always been under the radar with this but since JKRs statement, they’re not holding back.
Most people will be horrified by these wee woke narcissists.
You can’t give in to them because no matter how much you give, they will never be satisfied.

The difference now is, is Murrell going to sit back whilst his wife’s name is trashed by her ‘own side’?

It could have been dealt with subtly ages ago but NS supports GRA reform and wants to be seen as progressive.

It was apparently debated at Conference, I was there, when some wee binary person gave her/his sob story and everyone voted for some vague motion about equality cos we felt sorry for them.

I do remember at the time thinking, what? but never thought it would lead to where is is at now.

I thought Fiona R was maybe a plant but Spears and others are just a bit thick

Beaker

@Capella says:
29 June, 2020 at 7:52 pm
“Most members never read twitter and have no idea what is going on. Ordinary members in my Branch were baffled by the trans issue and certainly not supportive of men declaring themselves to be women.”

It’s not just the views of SNP members the leadership should be worried about – it’s Black. Is she trying to sabotage Indyref2?

robbo

Acht it maybe all over by 2025 not 2525

Stopped caring to be honest.

link to youtube.com

Polly

CameronB Brodie Thank you for the link, I’ll have a read later. I thought at first you wrote ‘Perhaps this might prompt some ethical readership? 🙂

Capella

I think we have to accept that there are people, perfectly intelligent and well meaning people, who believe that men can turn into women.

I don’t know how they have been hypnotised onto a condition of belief. But remember that Galileo was forced to recant his perfectly correct scientific observation that the earth orbits the sun. And not the other way about.

But, show someone the torture instruments and they will repeat the mantra.

CameronB Brodie

Capella
Here one to help defend the rights of women in Scotland, and perhaps encourage the Scottish government to refer to the natural law reading of the British constitution. That way they might rediscover the significance of Treaty law. 😉

Ethics, Medicine and Public Health – Ethique, Médecine et Politiques Publiques Volume 2, n° 2 pages 170-180 (avril 2016)
Core values in bioethics: A natural law perspective

link to emvmsa1a.jouve-hdi.com

MaggieC

This is in the next step in the transgender debate , it’s an article from The Mirror from a surgeon saying that “ Transgender women should be allowed womb transplants so they can have their own babies ,

link to archive.vn

All I can say to this is I would love to see how many men would cope with the pain of going childbirth . LOL .

twathater

@ Mike Cassidy 12.31pm on previous thread ,Mike thanks for that link to the National’s cover of Mhairi Black’s accusations against the SNP
link to archive.is

On the article just above the Blackford comment there is a link saying 464 people are talking about this , it takes you too MB’s twatter and the comments are a bin fire of rants against the SNP from wokeist supporters , if this is the way forward indy is f++kin dead due to these nutjobs

link to twitter.com

mike cassidy

Its hard to avoid the possibility that Mhairi Black and others are trying to do a transphobia equivalent of Labour’s antisemitism mess.

Except in this case its not the leadership they are after.

Its the women’s right campaigners.

For whatever reason

Confidence or desperation

They have decided now is the time to ‘guide’ the leadership into purging the Joanna Cherries.

This has the potential to be a real civil war within the SNP – not one concocted by the unionist media.

And here, out of interest, is a description of that controversial meeting

Which either bears no resemblance to the transphobic nature of the event as previously reported

Or the offended party has fallen so far down the woke rabbit hole that they experience the entire world as one big ball of transphobia.

link to twitter.com

dakk

@Cam b 7.30

Yes, indy first, then we can properly look after all our people,without exception.

Joe included

🙂

CameronB Brodie

Polly
I’m not suggesting it will provide all the answers, but it points to the value of respecting biology and the human genome. I’m trying to piece together an outline of ethical jurisprudence, but I’m very, very rusty.

The Ontological Foundations for Natural Law
Theory and Contemporary Ethical Naturalism

link to epublications.marquette.edu

Andy Ellis

@Capella 8.49pm

I don’t understand your response. The SNP are losing support over this. They are endangering the movement, quite apart from the fact it’s just wrong. It’s not hard to grasp the point I’m making.

The only ones who can make it stop are ordinary members mobilising and ensuring the party changes course. So far….nada.

@ 9.08pm

They’re not perfectly intelligent if they accept that men can turn in to women. It’s a faith based, a-scientific belief on a par with believing the world is flat or that homeopathy is effective. Perhaps Liz is correct and things are now starting to change. We can but hope.

mike cassidy

And if you want an example of how set the mind can be on this issue

See how these horrible examples of trans predators are dismissed.

link to twitter.com

CameronB Brodie

dakk
We can’t afford to wait to deal with right-wing populism, as that is what is driving contemporary English politics. English Torydum, has had a post-colonial breakdown, and they are trying to take us with them as they deny their colonial history and penchant for cultural chauvinism.

EMOTIONAL ROOTS OF RIGHT?WING POLITICAL POPULISM
link to researchportal.helsinki.fi

Ottomanboi

Identitarianism whether of the left or right, whether homosexualist or transsexualist is a virus far more deadly to humanity than SARS-CoV-2.
Everything it touches it ‘denatures’, language, social relationships, politics, culture, history, thought.
In common with all anti-intellectual and anti free-thought systems its weapons are loud and crude and opaque.
The subtleties of a clear and rational discourse it finds offensive.
Effectively there is no arguing with it and why would you waste precious time doing so?
Their gobbledegook, however, like sand, gets everywhere.
link to quillette.com

CameronB Brodie

dakk
We also need to defend Scots law from gender-ideology, or we are unlikely to get a chance to go for indy. Open democracy will not survive long in a legal environment that considers biological women to be the same but subordinate to men. Rather than equal but different, like Scotland and England.

Bioethics in International Law:
An Analysis of the Intertwining of Bioethical and Legal Discourses

link to edoc.ub.uni-muenchen.de

CameronB Brodie

“homosexualist”

Is this acceptable or openly prejudiced and reactionary?

Breeks

link to twitter.com

Apologies. Not pleasant to watch, but the US inspired deregulation in food production will be an absolute scandal if it’s allowed to happen, considering what we have here and now in Europe, and what a US inspired trade deal will force us to accept.

I read Waitrose making some pious statement that they’d never sell chlorinated chicken. It’s not the chlorination that’s the vile part, (You’ll actually want MORE chlorination, once you why chlorination is necessary).

It’s the abysmal animal husbandry and grotesque food hygiene standards which makes chlorination necessary. It’s the process to kill all the bugs and pathogens on your meat so you can actually eat it. Chlorination is essentially a disinfectant. That’s why it’s used to sanitize swimming pools.

Chlorination however will not remove the GM components, or the growth hormones and steroids that have been artificially introduced, nor, (if US standards are adopted), the rat hairs and rat faeces which are naturally introduced by vermin, but are tolerated in US food standards.

Leaving Europe to cater for this deregulation is NOT ACCEPTABLE. EU standards are much higher and everybody benefits, except the greedy corporate food producers who have to compete with demanding standards and good practice.

If only Scotland had a government with the backbone to defend Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution and our place in the European Union.

When be beat COVID, we’ll all be exchanging face masks for sick bags.

Capella

@ Andy Ellis – the SNP are polling at 54%. They would sweep the board at Holyrood with these figures. No need for list votes either.

OK that’s because the MSM haven’t weaponised the issue yet.

And I agree that the belief that men can turn into women is completely irrational. But, I have to acknowledge that there are many women who believe this. Remember Stu’s poll question where a majority of young women believed it. But when asked if men should use their toilets, changing rooms etc, had second thoughts?

They want to be kind. But they haven’t thought about the consequences.

call me dave

Coronavirus: For those who don’t access big Auntie BBC web sites.

UK hardest hit by virus among leading G7 nations

link to archive.is

dakk

Science now shows that humans can have external genetalia which do not correspond entirely to their chromosomes.

The self id issue is that which is now being played out.

Not good timing for Indy would be understatement of the century.

Capella

@ dakk – biology has always shown that some people do not have the external genitalia to match their chromosomes and gonads. But they are a tiny minority. They are not trans. they are intersex and do not want to be caught up in this culture war.

call me dave

Channel 4 News confirms success of Scottish Covid strategy and condemns Tory failures

Jon Snow interview: Hope link works: 🙁

link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com

call me dave

Oh well. Only a snippet there not full 5mins. Might try again. 🙁

CameronB Brodie

dakk
That may be a scientific fat but it is not ethical to shape law to suite a minority, and human’s are characteristically female or male. Trans-women are already protected in the same manner as biological women, under international law anyway. The human genome is also protected under intentional law.

The full effect of international law does not reach Scotland though, due to the culture of Parliamentary sovereignty and the assumed immutability of English legal doctrine.

IS BIOETHICS BROKE?: ON THE IDEA OF ETHICS AND LAW
“CATCHING UP” WITH TECHNOLOGY

link to indylaw.indiana.edu

Capella

If you really want to do something right away to combat climate change, virus pandemics and animal welfare – go vegan. Today.

The next pandemic is revving up in China. it’s breeding in pigs but may soon migrate to humans.

They found evidence of recent infection starting in people who worked in abattoirs and the swine industry in China.

There is no escape from appalling animal welfare practices.
link to bbc.co.uk

Dan

Is The Vedic Code Book still legal to own these days or is it the sort of literature that one will soon be locked up for owning?
Seem to recall it had chapters on sexual anatomy and sizes, with animal names utilised for male and female organ dimensions and optimum compatibility.
I like to think of it as a work of Science Friction…

CameronB Brodie

Dan
Are you not perhaps thinking of the Kama Sutra? Not that I’d know about these sort of things. 😉

Natural Law and Everyday Law
link to core.ac.uk

Robert graham

Governments on both sides of the Atlantic are in deep shit ,

what the people need is a distraction ,

Thinking Thinking I Know we need a fkn endless War

Eh the yanks have been obliterating people since the end of the last biggie the 2nd World War , they haven’t stopped it’s like a fkn drug and they are well and truly hooked.

Who can we Bomb there must be some fkr we can flatten , what was it that Rumsfeld said We will Bomb any country that doesn’t stand with us back to the Stone Age , and he was the quiet one .

And Bawjaws wants a deal with these nut cases , oh where is that beam Scotty , cos I want beamed up, Scotty where the fn beam don’t fk about this is serious .

mike cassidy

Time for a laugh on the trans issue.

You’ll never look at your GP in quite the same way again

And most of the BTL would be imprisonable under the forthcoming hate bill.

link to twitter.com

mike cassidy

Robert Graham

I’m drawing closer to the suggestion that time travel comes about in the future

And that you can explain 2020 as the year they kept coming back to fix

Kept getting it wrong

Kept coming back to fix …..

LeggyPeggy

Mike Cassidy @9.06 pm

Thanks for posting the link to the twitter post from Snp Women’s Pledge group , I was at that meeting and can confirm that their statement is true about that meeting .

This is the post from Teddy Hope for anyone who has not read it yet and it’s a totally inaccurate description of the meeting , please also read the the replies and comments to his post . Finlay McFarlane gave the talk on behalf of the Out for Indy group as Teddy arrived late into the meeting

link to mobile.twitter.com

And this is from Emma Cuthbertson who was due to also attend a meeting on the same evening at Maryhill Snp but called off attending it , she has since left the Snp and joined the Scottish Greens

link to mobile.twitter.com

And this is where she’s openly stating that she’s complained about
J Cherry , J McAlpine , C McEleny and other prominent Snp Msp’s and members and ex Snp members .

link to mobile.twitter.com

Regarding the photos that were shown at the meeting this is from the woman that compiled the list

link to mobile.twitter.com

And this is the list of the photos that were shown at the meeting

link to mobile.twitter.com

I’m asking you all to click on the last link to the photos at least and scroll through them and try to understand why women do not want to give up our hard fought fight for our rights .

robbo

Hand the cock having to eat humble pie.Leicester back on lockdown desire me.
Now where’s all those that wanted early release of lockdown?
Boris and Cummings this is on your watch again ,bloody shambles.

robbo

Dearie me even

Sensibledave

CBB

… from 9.21, you had a little run where 35% of all btl comments where from you.

And they were all rubbish and mostly irrelevant!

You are a star!!

robbo

Right Nicola,tell queen lizzie you want the Coldstream and Scots guards back.
Back on the border protecting the Scottish people or you won’t swear allegiance any longer. Get our boys back home.

Vinny

Capella

You have got to be the biggest pain in the arse that has ever graced Wings Over Scotland.

Your blind loyalty to Sturgeon is sickening.

It is you and your fellow Sturgeon apologists that have got us into the position we are fuckin in.

No matter what evidence is put in front of you about Sturgeon, you hit back telling us it is all a conspiracy, that your Nicola would never stoop so low.

You are wrong. Sturgeon stuck Alex Salmond in,, Sturgeon doesn’t want Independence and she does want equality for Trans and Laws passed to protect them.

So stop apologising for her, she has sold Scotland down the river.

Beaker

@robbo says:
29 June, 2020 at 11:01 pm
“Hand the cock having to eat humble pie.Leicester back on lockdown desire me.”

Desire me? Lockdown getting to you 🙂 (I saw the correction, but made me laugh)

cynicalHighlander

@Capella

Can you answer a question I have on the endorsement of N.Sturgeon by A.Salmond in 2014 which you seem gives her creditability.

Who else could A.Salmond endorse back then as N.Sturgeon was his deputy prior to his resignation?

robbo

cynicalhighlander

Well you would have thought he was best placed to make the judgement, no? He knew her long enough. So was it bad judgement on his part you need to ask yourself,no?
Vinny do wan ya dobber.

CameronB Brodie

Sensibledave
No dave, I have quite a sophisticated appreciation of the law, and you don’t. What you do have though, is a narrow and closed mind and quite a lot of cultural prejudice.

Nomology, Ontology, and Phenomenology of Law and Technology
link to scholarship.law.umn.edu

Vinny

Just hearing that Ireland and Greece are ready to tell UK holiday makers “thanks but no thanks”

They are meant to be getting ready to ban any travel between Ireland and UK.

The Irish showing us Scots the way it should be done.

Maybe one day.

Once we dump the SNP apologists.

Fireproofjim

Robbo@11.01
“Desire me” is a somewhat desperate chat up line with little chance of success.

robbo

Aye beaker typo

glad I noticed b4 folk thought I wiz ..well you know.

Vinny

Robbo

I fuckin do wan right on your nut ya fuckin drunken prick

Vinny

Robbo sookin the cheap wine

Is it Eldee robbo?

A bottle of “who you looking it”

I’ll take that bottle and ran it Doon yer throat ya prick

robbo

Aye ,aye captain.

Vinny

Why do pricks butt into conversations that have fuck all to do with them,,,why???

Is it simply because they are full of cheap wine???

Or is it just because they are a prick,,drunk or sober???

crazycat

@ Cameron BB at 5.09

I’m going to try again with this, and see if I can find a better form of words than I did in my first attempt.

You wrote:

Those supporting the proposed GRA reform, wish to remove fundamental rights from biological women, in order to give a particular sexuality more rights.

“Trans” is not a sexuality.

“Sexuality” is about other people, about which other people a person finds sexually attractive. The possibilities are: same sex, opposite sex, both, or neither.

“Trans” is not about other people. It’s about oneself, one’s own “identity”. “Trans” people can have any of the four sexualities; the confusion arises in the labelling (eg male “lesbians”), but it’s still that case that “trans status” accompanies sexuality and is not “a sexuality” itself.

Vinny

Robbo
Capella
Famous15
Bob Mack

And the rest of the Sturgeon apologists coming out to play.

Vinny

Robbo

Try to invest in a nice white wine,,,that cheap Eldee is making you look a bigger prick than you already are.

Capella

@ cynical highlander – I don’t have the links to hand at this late hour. But I’ll check it out tomorrow. However, Alex Salmond chose Nicola Sturgeon as his deputy. His choice. Was he wrong?

CameronB Brodie

crazycat
It’s a very long time since I was dealing with this stuff, so I’ll happily stand corrected.

Morality, care, and international law
link to tandfonline.com

Vinny

Nicola Sturgeon conned her way to the top of Scottish politics.

Why?

No one has been able to answer that one yet.

John D

Tory Dave it’s 00:00

Vinny

Alex Salmond is still walking about with Nicola Sturgeon’s knife in his back

John D

Out of genuine interest . Were you one of the visionary cunservatives who had faith in the right wing trajectory that was leading to Alex boris de pf Johnson’s ascension ?
Don’t need to answer obvs

John D

Sympathise with much of the frustration with SNP party and Government. Do I think even they can prevent a referendum in Scotland being set at least next year ? No I don’t.
Do I think the SNP have been infected by groups and individuals with other intentions? I can not imagine it not being so. Will the SNP face an unaposed Scottish General Election after independence? I would say no way , unless an independent Scotland decides to go Wokist Fascist and the Queens 11 support that call the Tartan Army the Tranny Army can point and laugh , aha, aha , aha ha ha ha ha. .

CameronB Brodie

It’s a long time since I’ve looked at this stuff but I’m cooking with gas tonight. 🙂

Journal of Advanced Nursing 1998 Apr; 27(4): 817-24.
Misinterpretive Phenomenology: Heidegger, Ontology and Nursing Research

Abstract
This paper argues that Heidegger’s phenomenology does not have the methodological implications usually ascribed to it in nursing literature. The Heidegger of Being and Time is not in any sense antagonistic to science, nor does he think that everydayness is more authentic, more genuine, than scientific enquiry or theoretical cognition.

It is true that social science must rest on interpretive foundations, acknowledging the self-interpreting nature of human beings, but it does not follow from this that hermeneutics exhausts all the possibilities. Positivist approaches to social science are certainly inconsistent with Heidegger’s ontology, but realist approaches are not and structuration theory, in particular, can be seen as a sociological translation of his ideas.

Social enquiry in nursing is not therefore confined to studies of lived experience. Indeed, lived experience research constitutes not a realization, but rather a betrayal, of Heidegger’s phenomenology, being thoroughly Cartesian in spirit.

link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

CameronB Brodie

P.S. A Cartesian world-view considers mind and body to be separate, as well as culture and nature. This is a very old duelist perspective that holds little relation to reality.

CameronB Brodie

Oops, dualist. 🙂

Meaning and Mind from the Perspective of Dualist versus Relational Worldviews: Implications for the Development of Pointing Gestures
link to karger.com

Bob Mack

@Vinny,

Have you cultivated your stupidity of is it a natural talent?

Vinny

Bob Mack surfaces

Vinny

It’s the guy with the spelling difficulties.

An illiterate Sturgeon apologist

Like robbo, he can’t help himself,,,he just has to butt in

CameronB Brodie

Sorry, but I’m getting back into the swing of things and I can’t resist. Even though I’ve a touch of the big C myself, dyslexia. 😉

Psychosomatic Medicine Mar-Apr 2000; 62(2): 248-57
Antagonistic Behavior, Dominance, Hostility, and Coronary Heart Disease

link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Brian Doonthetoon

There are a number of – dare I say “people” – who are commenting btl with absolute crap, which seems to be posted more for effect, than for any progression of discussion.

In all the time I’ve read WOS, it’s only in the past year or so that I’ve started seeing certain usernames and skipping past them – and they seem to be multiplying.

I guess attaching themselves to the world’s most read Scottish political blog, lets them get their rocks off, now that there’s no longer Saturday morning cinema for the kids.

[…] Thanks to the Courtesy of : link to wingsoverscotland.com […]

Ottomanboi

Were the strident Woke tendency to dominate within mainstream Scottish politics marginalizing or even displacing the independence theme this commentary should give cause for concern.
link to unherd.com
A British nationalist, anti Woke platform let loose on a fundamentally socially conservative Scotland could turn the country’s political clock back. Independence = authoritarian snooping into your private life?
Johnson’s revivalist, rhetorical flourishes would sit well within such a strategy.
Forensic Sturgeon and Starmer might struggle even to be heard.
This is a culture war that Scotland, in the current febrile climate, would certainly lose.

Breeks

Does that not take the biscuit?

Middle of a global pandemic and the ruthless, heartless bastards reintroduce benefit sanctions.

They’re like a vile pack of feral dogs who select the weakest and most vulnerable, and hound them remorselessly until they collapse from exhaustion, and still the bastards want more because they’re hunting for the fun of it.

If only they pursued the Crooks, embezzlers, tax-avoiders and off-shore money launderers with equal enthusiasm… But no, those people have the contacts, resource and capacity to defend themselves. Those people are kindred.

In real terms, the poor and needy are defenceless.

Will the world be a better place after COVID? No. Not if you’re poor and born in the U.K.

Allium

To the people above who think the SNP may be changing tack on GRA – I hope you’re right, but I doubt it. NS numbers more than one TRA on her personal staff and in her close circle of friends, and her peculiar version of loyalty, combined with her occasional inability to moderate course when she gets an obsession with something, make me believe this is the hill she’s willing to ideologically die on.

All the signs point to them announcing that they’re dropping the bit about trans-ing U16s, but after that its full steam ahead with the reforms & if you don’t agree you’re a bigot #TWAW.

How they think this will fly in the public eye during an election I have no idea. There must be so many journalists just desperate to ask her if lesbians have penises. Jo Swinson’s fall from grace will look mild.

Scot Finlayson

The bearded woke parasites and misogynists that have infested the Transgender community have ,up to now, been very succseful in getting what they want,

they have been extremely coordinated in attacking stray individuals (like the hyena does) that dare to investigate and examine their underlying goal of free male access to female only spaces,

but they have become emboldened by their small victories and now want to attack bigger pray,

the more they attack the more thay are being seen for what they are and the better we can counter their attacks and free the transgender community from the woke misogynist parasites.

Breeks

Capella says:
29 June, 2020 at 11:47 pm

……However, Alex Salmond chose Nicola Sturgeon as his deputy. His choice. Was he wrong?

We could ask him…. 😉

And even then, what’s to say Nicola maybe was a very able deputy, but turns out to be someone who crumbles and folds in the roll of leader?

I’m curious Capella. Do you really believe people’s fears and concerns about Nicola’s lack of drive for Independence are unfounded?

Ottomanboi

Sturgeon is on record as having indicated she has problems with nationalism and even the SNP’s name.
I believe that tells us much about her personal perspective.
I assume she still holds Scotland to be a ‘nation’ or is that word also diversity negative?

dramfineday

Brian Doonthetoon at 1.10 AM (FGS Brian what are you doing up at that hour?) anyway, I find myself largely in agreement with you.

SOG

As Brian DTT said above at 0110, the btl bickering by the same few names puts me off reading after the first half-day or so, on every post. I’ve been around, largely silent, for a few years now.

Whatever effect it may have on newcomers cannot be a benefit. Further, and matching my thoughts about the SNP, I’m likely to take the attitude that I won’t pay to support this dross. It wasn’t big but my SNP membership and donation went instead to CM’s fund. They Know Who They Are can finance Wings if they keep dominating.

Socrates MacSporran

After reading the post above, by dramfineday, I was moved to check-out the post by Brian Doonthetoon @ 1.10am.

Excellent post Brian, maybe, like me, you had been on a Bruce Willis binge night – Die Hard 3 followed by that gangster caper movie.

None of my business, but, your post was on the money.

Capella

I’m curious Capella. Do you really believe people’s fears and concerns about Nicola’s lack of drive for Independence are unfounded?
Yes.
We’re in the middle of a pandemic. It would have been very stupid to plough on campaigning under these conditions. But the pandemic will pass. Meanwhile, the polls for independence and Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP keep rising. Hence the panic from some of the btl “I hate Wee Krankie” brigade.

I would need some real evidence to change my opinion. Not blind loyalty to the king ower the water. However, if Alex Salmond comes out and accuses NS of foot dragging or back stabbing then that would be decisive IMO.

Vinny

I agree with above posts about disruption.

Robbo and others post to instigate trouble.

I blame it on the excess consumption of cheap wine.

Joseph

I agree with above posts about disruption.

Robbo and others post to instigate trouble.

They seem to hunt in packs and go after whoever they have chosen as their victim for that particular evening.

I blame it on the excess consumption of alcohol.

Lay off the vino guys, it clouds your judgement.

The Rev should introduce a breathalyser test before we are allowed onto his site.

Probably empty the site right enough.

schrodingers cat

Breeks says:
Do you really believe people’s fears and concerns about Nicola’s lack of drive for Independence are unfounded?

yes, Nicola’s drive for Independence is dictated by the people, eg, when support for the snp fell to 38% in 2017, the demand for a s30 was taken of the table. rightly so

that said nothing about her belief in independence, it was a political decision, a correct decision, support for the snp in Dec was 42% in the polls, 45% in the election. it is now 52-54%

mike cassidy

For those who thought Parler might be an alternative to censortrigger-happy Twitter.

As Predicted: Parler Is Banning Users It Doesn’t Like

link to archive.vn

Robert graham

The times are a changing
Who would have thought support for Jakey from independence supporters ,

These Trans vindictive really nasty pieces of work have just crossed the Line , they have brought attention to what they have been up to ,they can no longer operate under the radar because people are beginning to notice them and are not fkn happy by what they have seen ,a backlash is guaranteed .and they better run for cover especially the ones inside the SNP management

Bawjaws little helper Cummings has signalled disrupting the operation of the Civil Service oh dear now that’s a really stupid fight to pick , declaring war on the people who actually run the country can and probably will bring the both of these Clowns back to earth with a very painful bump .
Bawjaws is presently talking his usual pish and bluster I doubt if anyone believes a fkn word he says , he has lost the country sane people know he’s talking pish and anything he says will be forgotten by tea time, scratch the surface and it will all fall apart , oh fk Borris we have heard it before and your record is not just bad it’s bloody hilarious , a true Clown at work .

Rm

Boris Johnstone has just said that this is the time to strengthen the union, I hope Blackford and Sturgeon respond by saying this is the time to end the union, time to move on to pastures new start the 21st century afresh, break away from this medieval union that’s held Scotland down for centuries, if they don’t respond it’s nae looking good , buy I think everybody knows that nothing will be said, look at this last six years, are we any further on ? Aye probably further going the opposite way.

schrodingers cat

Boris Johnstone has just said that………… the moratorium on on any politics other than covid 19, is over

at the same moment, leicester major gives speech about how leicester is moving back into lockdown

Breeks


Capella says:
30 June, 2020 at 10:48 am

…I would need some real evidence to change my opinion. Not blind loyalty to the king ower the water. However, if Alex Salmond comes out and accuses NS of foot dragging or back stabbing then that would be decisive IMO.

Fair comment I suppose.

I’ve been advocating a constitutional defence of Scottish Sovereignty and the emphatic Democratic will of a sovereign people since 2016, and demanding that Scotland establish a Constitutional Backstop to protect our Nation from subjugation and removal from Europe. It would have worked. It was a strategy which did work, – for Northern Ireland, and Scotland had a National Constitution that was a much stronger argument than the Good Friday Agreement. But the SNP did nothing, squandered our every advantage, and came back with absolutely nothing.

The final straw for me Nicola Sturgeon’s gutless capitulation on the 31st January. Scotland subjugated and out of Europe without even putting up a fight. What a fucking disgrace. Fight? There wasn’t even a token gesture of defiance. The humiliation and embarrassment of it will burn my soul to my dying day, and she had the utter cheek to keep everyone on tenterhooks to “heighten the effect” of her weasel words. That was the end of Nicola Sturgeon for me. That was the moment, although it had been a long time coming.

We will NEVER resurrect Scotland’s Independence with gutless nobodies running their own show, pig ignorant of their own Nation’s Constitution, and singularly unsuccessful in their capacity to capitalise on events and turn them to Scotland’s advantage. Independence was there for the taking, and we’d have kept our economy in the EU into the bargain, but the opportunity has been squandered for absolutely NOTHING in return.

You want more evidence Capella? Good luck to you. I myself, have seen enough. I will NEVER put my faith in the SNP again.

Scotland’s last hope is Joanna Cherry, but not SNP Joanna Cherry, I mean the Legal Eagle Joanna Cherry, pursuing a Constitutional initiative through the UN and Constitutional Courts to undo and reverse Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation.

Politics? Meh. “Parcel of Rogues“ they were in 1707, and nothing has changed. Lying scumbags.

Famous15

I do not hate trans people. They do have issues which require care and love to help them lead a happy life. Dysphoria must be really challenging.

I do hate the nasty, vindictive and vicious pretended supporters of trans rights.

The SNP has suffered the entryism of these nasties and must cleanse the party of such wicked people. Most of them are “soft” on independence anyway. I do not pretend to know what motivates their hatred but it is so destructive. Do they have a distorted feeling of faux victimhood?

Gary45%

Just had the pleasure!! of listening to Johnson whilst gardening.
As the old Police song goes.
Every road we make,
Every family we break,
Every plot we stake,
Every lie we make,
We’ll be taxing you.
A new road to the Northern Colony woohoo, and even more debt handed to Scotland, to pay for Westminster’s failings.

schrodingers cat

breeks

unfortunately, 2017 support dropped 2 38%, thats why indyref2 was taken off the table. correctly imo. support’s now rising & i believe it will continue to do so. it’s the voters who decide the direction of travel, not the snp. their job is 2 convince voters. hint, polls at 52-54%

and on the last day of any possible brexit deal, btl here is awash with comments about chics with diks

it says more about the posters than anything else.

Ottomanboi

I wonder if the vociferous Ms Black and her partisans know anything of French history.
The Commitee of Public Safety was the revolutionary watchdog against wrong thinking enemies of the state. It instituted the bloody terror that attempted to eliminate ‘opposition’. Its leaders came to an ignominious end.
Although no Robespierre Ms Black might do well to ponder on the bitter fruits of unbridled zeal.

.

robbo

Joseph @11.06

Thanks Joseph for your vote of confidence. If you think I’m the bad one and I an instigator then you haven’t being paying attention imho.
If it’s an anti NS site you wish to have lock stock and barrel then I wish you well.

cynicalHighlander

So Alex was wrong to go for independence when support was only 25% give me strength.

schrodingers cat

cynicalHighlander says:
30 June, 2020 at 12:39 pm
So Alex was wrong to go for independence when support was only 25% give me strength.

actually, it was at 29% when polls were yes/no/devo max. once devo max was finally rejected by wm and removed from the polls, yes was at 42-47% from then on until the actual vote

you need too strengthen your memory too

schrodingers cat

@Ottomanboi

it says more about the posters than anything else.

turks have always been big fans of lady boys and small boys

i rest my case

liz

@capella. Alex S did not choose her. There was a deal between them that she would not stand in his way to become FM but he would hand over the reigns to her when the time came.
That time was when he resigned.

If we had won indy, her elevation would have been much later.

She was the deputy, who else would he support?

Socrates MacSporran

Breeks

Well said again young man – you really are on-fire at the moment.

Like you, the moment the SNP lost me was, 31 January, when all their brave words, all those times Ian Blackford stood up in the House of Commons and said: “Scotland will not be dragged out of the EU against it’s will,” proved to be merely empty politician-speak.

We are being dragged out of the EU against our will and for as long as the SNP fails to heed Enoch Powell’s reminder, “Power devolved is power retained we will never regain our freedom.

We cannot play by Westminster’s rules, we have to change the rules – and, as you say Breeks our best chance is for Joanne Cherry to mount her constitutional legal challenge.

Annoyingly, for all these encouraging opinion poll results of late, we still cannot state beyond reasonable doubt – that a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland support independence. However, we can say: “As shown by the 2016 Referendum result, a majority of the sovereign people of Scotland support our continued membership of the EU.”

We should be fighting for that result to be honoured. And since the only way it can be honoured is for Scotland to become Independent – all the energies of the SNP should be directed towards that end.

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
“and on the last day of any possible brexit deal, btl here is awash with comments about chics with diks

it says more about the posters than anything else.”

Perhaps some of us able to respect the rule-of-law, where as you have admitted you have no faith in it.

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
“turks have always been big fans of lady boys and small boys

i rest my case”

Are you sure you not just a dick?

Jockanese Wind Talker

Couple of major dates regarding Brexit (remember that?) incoming over the next 48hrs:

30th June 2020 – Financial services equivalence decision deadline

1st July 2020 – Fisheries agreement deadline

1st July 2020 – Any extension to the transition period must be agreed before this date

link to shoosmiths.co.uk

So we will know by Thursday morning if The City of London’s Financial Sector gets what it wants; if there will be no extension post 31st December 2020 and if Scotlands Fishing communities will be sold out again by Westminster!

schrodingers cat

Socrates MacSporran
the only way it can be honoured is for Scotland to become Independent – all the energies of the SNP should be directed towards that end.

how do we do that during the covid 19 epidemic?
the only way we could do this is to call for an early Holyrood election,

covid 19 wasnt nicola’s fault, not even boris’s. when is the earliest we could have a holyrood election?

i would have wished that support for indy would have been higher well before now. but it wasnt. people needed to see an english nationalist as pm, rather than the threat of it. unfortunately, i think many scottish voters will need to actually see what a goat rodeo brexit will be on jan 1st 2021 before they finally cross over to yes

sad, but true

schrodingers cat

the rule-of-law is whatever the establishment decide it is….ask stu

schrodingers cat

Socrates MacSporran

bear in mind, that even if we declare out independence before 1st jan 2021, an indy scotland would still have to go through the s49 process of a new nation joining the eu

no remain or rejoining is possible as far as the eu is concerned. that will continue to be the eu’s position, up until we actually declare our indy, with wm’s agreement.

it may change after that point since what the rule-of-law actually is in the eu, is whatever they decide it will be

schrodingers cat

@Jockanese Wind Talker

bojo says today we will leave with an austrailian type deal. ie wto with a few deals on specific trade items

as far as deal lines go, in reality, the eu will probably continue to negotiate until 1st jan

at which point we will leave under an australian type deal minus, ie, minus any deals on specific trade items

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
“the rule-of-law is whatever the establishment decide it is….ask stu”

I thought that’s what we were trying to change by supporting the indy cause? I’m confused.

schrodingers cat

the propensity to blame nicola and the snp for the current state of affairs here, btl, is misguided

the blame lies squarely with the scottish electorate

schrodingers cat

CameronB Brodie says:
“the rule-of-law is whatever the establishment decide it is….ask stu”

I thought that’s what we were trying to change by supporting the indy cause? I’m confused.

it is cameron, however, we aint indy yet, more’s the pity

CameronB Brodie

Scotland is up shite creek because of a cultural disrespect for ethics and the rule-of-law.

Ethics in the context of society
3 Ethics in the context of society: ethics, society
and the law

link to cambridge.org

schrodingers cat

ethics is immoral

morality is unethical

nothing more than an attempt to pass off ones opinion as something more than just ones opinion.

opinion is all there is

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
Is that a recognized position or is that simply your opinion?

Ethics, morality, law – what’s the difference?
link to ethics.org.au

Jockanese Wind Talker

So BoJo has just announced UK will have a No Deal Brexit @schrodingers cat says at 1:21 pm

“EU trade chief: ‘Australia-style’ Brexit agreement means no deal.”

link to archive.is

schrodingers cat

CameronB Brodie says:
Is that a recognized position or is that simply your opinion?

I recognise it as my opinion which is why i have no need to to hyperlink to someone elses

schrodingers cat

Jockanese Wind Talker says:
30 June, 2020 at 1:35 pm
So BoJo has just announced UK will have a No Deal Brexit

pretty much. i doubt anyone here is surprised

CameronB Brodie

Here’s one for anyone interested in defending the rule-of-law from right-wing and left-wing populism.

Law and Philosophy (2005) 24: 239–262
LON FULLER AND THE MORAL VALUE OF
THE RULE OF LAW

link to faculty.las.illinois.edu

schrodingers cat

Here’s one for anyone interested in defending the rule-of-law from right-wing and left-wing populism.

in your opinion?

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
I expressed no opinion, where as you express hostility towards an ethical defense of the rule-of-law. Go figure?

The Law and the “Spirit of the Law” in Legal Ethics
link to digitalcommons.tourolaw.edu

schrodingers cat

CameronB Brodie says:
I expressed no opinion…..

in your opinion you have no opinion………….

er, put yer brain care specialist on danger money cameron

shug

Can anyone in the Stranraer area tell me if there is any work going on around the ferry terminal. I am thinking of lorry parks for checking goods crossing to Ireland

schrodingers cat

I expressed hostility towards the entire concept of ethics and morality.

they are tummy wipes for people who refuse to accept they are only expressing their own opinions

CameronB Brodie

schrodingers cat
I’ve tried to keep things civil but you’re apparently looking for a fight. Here’s an opinion for you. Your lack of respect for the law makes you a person who’s opinion should be treated with caution.

Law and Morals — Jurisprudence and Ethics
link to pdfs.semanticscholar.org

Capella

@ Breeks – you sound very bitter. Whatever the polls were when Alex Salmond started the Indy campaign, they ended at 55 – 45 against. He lost. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for Alex Salmond. I’ve followed his advice over e.g. joining the SNP, subscribing to The National and supporting Nicola Sturgeon as FM. When the facts change, my opinion will change.

@ Liz – Nicola Sturgeon was Deputy Leader for 10 years. Surely Alex Salmond would have noticed if there had been any lack of commitment on her part?