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No More Lies

Posted on September 21, 2020 by

We’ve just sent a Freedom Of Information request to the Scottish Government.

You can read it below.

REQUESTED BY: Stuart Campbell
DATE: 19 September 2020

As recently as the 3rd of August 2020, the Scottish Government published an FOI response stating that:

That quote can be found under “Part (c) of your review request” here.

However, an article published on the Sky News website six days earlier made the following statements:

This would appear to suggest that the Scottish Government was flatly denying that the First Minister had met with Geoff Aberdein in her official office at Holyrood on 29 March 2018 six days AFTER it had admitted to Sky News that she did.

A previous FOI response had detailed the First Minister’s diary for 29 March 2018, which did not include any reference to a meeting with Mr Aberdein or any reference that could have been to such a meeting, even though the First Minister is required to record the details of any such meetings on Scottish Parliament premises.

While the response notes that some information has been excluded for a variety of reasons, it would presumably still be a requirement to record that a meeting had taken place, even if the identities of those present and the purpose of the meeting were withheld.

In addition to the First Minister and the “senior government official” said by Sky News to have been present, Mr Aberdein stated in the High Court during Mr Salmond’s trial that the 29 March 2018 meeting involved one of the women who made complaints of sexual abuse against Mr Salmond.

Therefore, the information I request is as follows:

(1) In the light of the apparent admission to Sky News, does the Scottish Government wish to reconsider its reply of 3 August to the question of whether the First Minister met with Geoff Aberdein on 29 March 2018? Did she in fact do so?

(2) If so, who else, if anyone, was present at this meeting?

(3) If not, is Sky News mistaken/lying that such an admission was made by a Scottish Government spokesman and what steps have been taken over this misrepresentation by Sky News?

(4) Given the quite remarkable implausibility of the idea that a meeting between the First Minister and Geoff Aberdein at that time could have NOT discussed the matter of the allegations against Mr Salmond – particularly given Mr Aberdein’s claim to the High Court that one of the complainers was present at the meeting – does the Scottish Government wish to reconsider its statement that the First Minister and Mr Aberdein did not discuss the allegations on that date?

(5) If not, please disclose what matters were discussed, or why they cannot be disclosed.

We’ll let you know when we get a reply.

.

Incidentally, while putting the request together we discovered something interesting and not a little disturbing. We’d been looking for another FOI response to reference, which we remembered reading because it had this line in it:

It had leapt out at us at the time because nobody in the FOI request it was a reply to had actually mentioned Liz Lloyd, either by name or by her job title, yet the response made a point of bringing her up. So we tried to find the document on the Scottish Government’s FOI page by searching for those words.

But weirdly, no search returned it. Results are listed by date and even though it had been published on 19 June this year, the most recent result for the word “clarity” was from January 2019.

The most recent result for “chief of staff” was from April 2019:

As was the most recent result for “Liz Lloyd”:

So we tried it with a much more specific phrase from the document – “any departure from normal policy or procedure”. The only result was from two years ago:

We remembered that the person who made the initial request had mentioned Geoff Aberdein, so we tried “Aberdein” in the search box and got an even bigger surprise:

Yet we know for a fact that a minimum of two FOI documents on the site mention Geoff Aberdein’s name – the 19 June one and the one from 3 August (which is actually in response to a complaint about the unsatisfactory nature of the previous response).

So we then picked a random recent response – one about custodial sentences from last month – and searched for a random very specific phrase from it: “Number of life sentences are available in Table 10d”. This time the site had no difficulties whatsoever, proving that it’s nothing to do with how recently a response might have been added:

Only one possible conclusion can be drawn from all of this: the Scottish Government is deliberately censoring its own Freedom Of Information pages to try to hide certain documents relating to the Salmond inquiry from view while still being able to say that they’ve been “published”.

(The one about the First Minister’s diary on 29 March 2018, for example, also seems to be impossible to find from any search terms.)

That’s a very curious interpretation of “freedom of information”.

And it’s not that some odd formatting quirk or suchlike is making those documents or their text “invisible” either. Because if you search for bits of the text on Google, rather than on the Scottish Government website, they pop straight up:

The inescapable fact of the matter is that the Scottish Government website is actively concealing them. We shall of course be seeking an explanation of this too, and will keep you updated.

Always tell the truth, readers. It’s a lot easier to remember.

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    112 to “No More Lies”

    1. Sarah says:

      Is NOW the time, do you think? Or should we wait until “the economic effects of Covid have been dealt with”?

    2. Dickie says:

      Stu

      They are probably not lying when they say “..we have no recorded information..” Simply means it has been disposed of

      I am going through a similar issue with FOI request with a local council who just keep using the same phrase “..we do not hold that information” when I know they had received it. They are using weasel words so that they cannot be accused of actually lying

    3. Graeme Hampton says:

      Good work, if only the rest of the Scottish press were so switched on. It will no doubt be amusing to see what sort of literary gymnastics are employed in the reply.

    4. Terry says:

      “Always tell the truth, readers. It’s a lot easier to remember.”

      A wise man once told me he didn’t lie. Me, thinking it was through virtue said, “That’s good to hear.” He added, “It’s too much like hard work.”

      By God they must be busting a gut in Holyrood then. Keep it up Rev. They’re tripping over themselves now.

    5. Sue Varley says:

      Even in light of what has already come out of the investigation into the Scottish Government and Sturgeon over this, I find myself shocked, and slightly sickened, by today’s revelation, but thank you for the tenacity of your investigations, Stuart

    6. John Moss says:

      Freedom, it seems is a relative term. Your freedom to know is apparently not yours to decide. Good luck.

    7. Habib Steele says:

      Thanks for going on going on with this!

    8. cynicalHighlander says:

      There must be an awful lot of people involved with this amount of ‘corruption’.

    9. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Interesting stuff…

      I typed the phrase,
      “For clarity, the name of the First Minister’s Chief of Staff is Liz Lloyd”
      into Google’s Advanced Search and got ONE hit –

      https://tinyurl.com/y5bptspd

      Which took me to

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000022790/

      Which is the first link that Rev Stu got in the second last graphic atl. Putting the above phrase into the search box on the gov.scot web site gets no hits.

      So, it definitely looks like the Rev has uncovered active concealment right enough.

    10. Beaker says:

      Apart from FOI requests, could you get an MP or MSP to raise a Parliamentary Question (PQ)? They can sometimes get an answer far quicker.

    11. Iain More says:

      Off topic or maybe not.

      Has the ex David Hume Tower now George Tower or whatever our English/British Masters are calling it now renamed it yet again yet? Well was the English Germanic George the Third not a barking mad Racist supporter of the slave trade?

      Scottish lives matter not at all it seems???

    12. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      I know it’s a bit early for an O/T comment but I think the following may be of interest re our wonderful media.

      Yesterday there was an item widely reported in the media that the husband of a former political person now wanted to be known as Elizabeth.

      Assuming that there would be further comment today I have accessed the on-line National, Herald, Scotsman, Record, Scottish Sun, Courier, P&J and the BBC and STV web sites.

      Total Silence on this matter.

      It has frequently been said that there is some sort of central control of the media by dark forces – is there any chance that it is pure coincidence that there has been absolutely zilch follow up on this story which verges on the sensational as regards the Scottish media.

    13. Kenny says:

      This is essential, incredible reading and brilliant investigatory work.

      Anyone – independence seeking or otherwise – denying the importance of this site is either a blind fool, a dreamer, or working for the british government.
      The loose ends in all of this are beginning to trip-up the perpetrators; in the obvious absence of any independence referendum, I dearly want to see this.

    14. Breastplate says:

      If true, at what level of government would this be sanctioned and who would be expected and able to do the actual concealment?
      Can it be reversed?
      Is it a criminal offence?

      Seems to be, as always, more questions than answers.

    15. Stoker says:

      I wonder if those snp members celebrating the taking down of the WOS Twitter account are still celebrating or if they now hold a degree of regret? LOL! 🙂

    16. Stoker says:

      Kenny says on 21 September, 2020 at 12:19 pm:

      This is essential, incredible reading and brilliant investigatory work. Anyone – independence seeking or otherwise – denying the importance of this site is either a blind fool, a dreamer, or working for the British government.”

      They’ll be wishing Sturgeon kept her word and went for indy, it would have given her and her sycophants a far easier life. 😉

    17. Sarah says:

      @gus1940: can you give a bit more detail, please? I just googled “former politician’s husband now called Elizabeth” and nothing relevant came up.

    18. Bob Mack says:

      They almost managed to hide their dirty linen but left the label sticking out.

      Great work Rev. You ARE a journalist.

    19. Bob Costello says:

      If I were you Stu , I would be checking my brakes and looking under my car before every trip I took and I am serious

    20. Clapper57 says:

      @ Sarah @ 12.36pm

      Hi Sarah…Wendy Alexander….

      Have a nice day

    21. Sarah says:

      Clapper57 – Ta!

    22. Robert Graham says:

      Most big organisations and indeed government departments operate on the assumption that people in general are stupid , it’s only when the persistent ones start to make life uncomfortable for the organisation and the heads of the organisations that things start to move , either by accepting the answers to questions required are valid so compliance is often the best way forward ,

      In this case some very uncomfortable facts must always be hidden , who started the ball rolling and Why , the information asked for is shielding facts so damaging that disclosure would see the heads of the organisation being complicit in covering them and their origin up , in other words who started the witch hunt and what methods did they employ, you are indeed a very persistent and annoying fkr Stu , so expect some retaliation your a brave guy make no mistake ,

      who else here would be willing to stick their head up and have it metaphorically blown off , I hope readers appreciate the dangerous path Stu is following, best of luck pal you might need more than moral support from people here,

    23. AdamH says:

      Looks like its time for a second law of holes.
      When you find your opponents in one, keep digging.

    24. jfngw says:

      I don’t see anything weird in the identification of Liz Lloyd, the FOI has a link to another document that refers to the chief of staff but does not name her.

      Maybe the search engine and indexing at the Scotgov isn’t as good as the one used by Google, not all search engines are of equal quality.

    25. Achnababan says:

      If you have trouble understanding the complexities of cover-ups and stitch-ups (like me) I suggest you watch a terrific Korean drama on Netflix called Stranger (Season 1)…. money, greed, power, and violence. The hero is a Prosecutor with some personality issues but doggedly determined and quite brilliant….

    26. Helen Yates says:

      You would have to assume they’re wishing they had never started this witch hunt in the first place, as the saying goes the truth will out and for yourself Stu I’d watch my back if I were you.

    27. Kate says:

      The Scottish media Journalist that like to think of themselves as “REAL” journalists, & have mocked this blog, must read this & run to the bathroom to throw up, knowing that they either couldn’t find this or they are part of the cover up, which will eventually lead to ruining their useless careers, sooner rather than later (I HOPE) Another great investigative job done. Thank You Rev..

    28. Balaaargh says:

      So… Do we need another FOI to ask who is responsible for the management of this infrastructure, what restrictions have been placed upon it, and who signed off on that?

    29. shug says:

      well well well

      Look who is funding the Conservatives!!!

      “The husband of one of the Conservative Party’s biggest donors was secretly funded by a Russian oligarch with close ties to President Putin.

      Lubov Chernukhin has given £1.7m to the Tories, including paying to spend time with the last three prime ministers.

      Leaked files show her husband received $8m (£6.1m). The money initially came from a politician facing US sanctions due to his closeness to the Kremlin.”

      I do wander what the security services are doing? Are they asleep?

      This is the government currently looking at the British defense budget and priorities. I wonder what the MOD make of the Russians having a finger in that pie.

    30. June Maxwell says:

      I fear Stu will be one of the first casualties of the Hate Crime bill. Please take care. Your work is greatly appreciated by many.

    31. G H Graham says:

      The only reasonable conclusion that a person with half a brain could reach is that this is an alleged attempt by Sturgeon’s inner circle (or those close to her, under her direct instruction) to distance Sturgeon & those inside her inner circle including Murrel, from the clear & obvious agenda to have an innocent man prosecuted at the High Court in Edinburgh.

      This behaviour, by people whose primary objective is to convince the general public to continue to fund their lucrative lifestyles & thus enable them to abuse their authority, integrity & trust is truly despicable; especially when they were determined to have an innocent man serve a jail sentence. And then persist in having his reputation trashed even after being found entirely innocent by a jury of his peers.

      This is banana republic stuff.

      Readers might ask themselves why Sturgeon has put so much effort into bolstering her persona & public image during this pandemic. Maybe she generally has the public’s interest at heart?

      Or maybe she really just wants another term in office to grab some extra cash while she can, extend the scope of her nanny state policies & settle old scores?

      So you’ll excuse us for being cynical towards someone who seems on the face of it, to publicly appear indifferent to an ex-colleague of hers being stitched up for serious criminal offences who was subsequently proven not to commit. A real friend would have at least called or even visited to share their relief when the verdict was called, right?

    32. Confused says:

      Top Sherlocking!

    33. David Rodgers says:

      Columbo has returned!!!!

    34. James Che. says:

      I am easily confused obviously, could anyone clarify which Scottish government, England’s civil service Scottish government, or our own Scottish government that we voted for, that appear to be shy regarding FOI, or both,

    35. Ottomanboi says:

      Sturgeon’s answer to independence, total demoralization, humiliation, depression, suppression and national economic collapse.
      Admit it FM you followed the wrong advice…then resign.

    36. jfngw says:

      They are not particularly well hidden as ‘Former First Minister Complaints’ returns them all, even ‘Former First Minister’ will do it but with many more hits.

      Maybe you could ask how the search indexing works, it obviously doesn’t search each document, that would take too long. So only certain fields are being marked for search indexing, doing them all costs more as you need to store these. Google obviously does store all these but that is there original business model and they have massive storage facilities.

    37. Bob Mack says:

      @jfngw,

      Your a Wee Ginger Dug fan aren’t you? I can tell just by the limp defence you just put forward.

      Licking the hand of project fear. Ha h ha ha ha.

    38. Garavelli Princip says:

      Dickie says:
      21 September, 2020 at 11:49 am

      “They are probably not lying when they say “..we have no recorded information..” Simply means it has been disposed of”

      Dickie – you got it in one! It’s classic Civil Service Jesuitary. (I once worked in St Andrews House).

      There is an entire (unwritten) textbook on how to ‘answer’ awkward questions – in those days before FOI, mainly to ‘nuisance ‘ parliamentarians trying to interrupt the smooth running of the Permanent Government on behalf of their smelly constituents.

      The one rule was “Do not lie” (or more accurately, do not be CAUGHT lying) There are many ways of doing that without telling the truth.

      The above is just one of them.

      As the saying goes: “You’ll get nothing but warm words from a a British civil servant”

    39. JGedd says:

      @Achnababan

      I agree with you. That series is very well done.

      The central character is actually partly lobotomized because of some mysterious childhood condition(?) but it does give the writers the chance to create a character who is almost entirely without emotional involvement so free of ambition & the usual human drives which can make them corruptible.

      Surrounded by people who are entangled in a web of deceit & corporate corruption it can make for a central character who stands outside the system. It’s a useful critique on what makes a system of law & politics so liable to corporate interference. It’s the way human beings are. Their weaknesses are easy to exploit. Relevant also to us at the moment.

      (It also has some intriguing glimpses into Korean society & how its politics still suffer from the effects of the Korean Was & the military dictatorship which gave so much power to a small group of families who still dominate today.)

      By the way, Series 2 is something of a disappointment in comparison.

    40. MaggieC says:

      Rev Stuart ,
      Thank you for all time and energy that you’ve put into this Stuart . You’ve got the patience of a saint in dealing with this .

      This whole affair just gets murkier by the day and the longer it goes on it just makes people even more suspicious of what is really being hidden.

    41. kapelmeister says:

      Stu they were probably counting on your being used to Aberdein not getting a result!

    42. MaggieC says:

      Article from The Times “ Alex Salmond inquiry : Snp chief Peter Murrell avoids Salmond case questions “ as he was to be questioned by NEC committee members regarding the leaked what’s app messages .

      Apparently the NEC meeting was cut short by Kirsten Oswald as shown in article

      “ However, Kirsten Oswald, the party’s business convener and deputy leader of the SNP’s Westminster group, suspended the meeting before the chief executive’s update because it had reached its two-hour time limit, despite there being an incomplete agenda. Sources said that Ms Oswald refused to take questions and would not allow the meeting to be adjourned until later this week. “

      https://archive.vn/sV1i2

      Someone needs a bloody big scalpel and lance this festering boil once and for all .

    43. kapelmeister says:

      Maggie’s @2:11 pm

      Another Oswald ending up as a patsy.

    44. Ross says:

      I have been, and still am, unconvinced by the conspiracy theories surrounding this . However this is undeniably bad practice that needs explained. The leaking of the voided report and the kafkaesque accusations against Salmond are equally appalling.

    45. Ross says:

      I would note though that a response has been published to the requestor . So the details are already out . What would be the point of concealment ?

    46. aulbea1 says:

      Thank you, Stu. An invaluable service.

    47. kapelmeister says:

      Ross

      “…bad practice..”

      What about criminality?

      Ross, the SNP staffer most likely. Sent on to Wings btl to attempt damage limitation.

    48. jfngw says:

      @Bob Mack

      I’m not a fan of anybody, I read things, I comment on them. I have commented on WGD but not very often, I’ve also commented on Scot Goes Pop and Grouse Beater sites (different name on grouse beater as he has more restrictions as you need to use a valid account, it shows your real name rather than your logon name).

      Are you disputing the facts I posted, if you are then lets see your evidence, either that or you are just an attack dog.

      O/T (nothing to do with the reply)

      This thread is superb.

      https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1307988591356923904

    49. Robert Graham says:

      MaggieC agreed

      Answers are now being asked from many now different sources

      Just how long can the uncomfortable answers to this be avoided ,

      The SNP National conference is posted as TBA when all other political party conferences have confirmed dates

      The Holyrood inquiry so narrow in its remit that it’s almost usless and being patently gagged

      Looks like a case of you can run but you can’t hide , I wonder why the Scottish Media and The BBC are avoiding pressing the point they haven’t been so slow in the past , what’s going on ?

    50. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Maybe the search engine and indexing at the Scotgov isn’t as good as the one used by Google, not all search engines are of equal quality.”

      “They are not particularly well hidden as ‘Former First Minister Complaints’ returns them all, even ‘Former First Minister’ will do it but with many more hits.”

      Please don’t be this stupid. If you can find ANY other FOI responses on the website that can’t be found by a search for their contents, other than ones relating to the Salmond inquiry, by all means get back to me with the details and I’ll reconsider the situation.

      The idea, however, that the Scottish Government’s website search indexing would by a quite astonishing coincidence ONLY fail to return documents relating to the inquiry – which is what appears to be the case – is so fatuous as to border on trolling.

    51. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “So… Do we need another FOI to ask who is responsible for the management of this infrastructure, what restrictions have been placed upon it, and who signed off on that?”

      Sent one in this morning.

    52. Robert Graham says:

      Eh Ross haven’t you missed the D ? As in DROSS the new Tory party bod in Jockland , not very convincing posts IMHO a bit obvious try again yup you have been rumbled

    53. Mist001 says:

      Maybe consider setting up a ‘dead mans switch’?

    54. James Barr Gardner says:

      O/T
      Salaries of Scottish Judiciary nearly 50% more than those in Denmark ! Scottish Police the highest paid in Europe !

      Weel I cannae see ony o’ them too keen oan Independence ! Dae turkeys vote fer Xmas ?

      “No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other.

    55. Patrick Roden says:

      @jfngw:

      you said “Maybe you could ask how the search indexing works, it obviously doesn’t search each document, that would take too long.”

      Not sure this is true mate. when submitting essays assignments to colleges and universities, students do so through ‘turnitin’ software that is able to check every publication including other students works availiable on the internet within seconds and is able to highlight the percentage of each students work that has been copy and pasted from any other source. it doeas this for every single student using this software and when you consider that they are all handing work in on or just before deadline day, the idea that it would take modern proccessors too long to do individual searches of documents is mistaken.

    56. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Stu they were probably counting on your being used to Aberdein not getting a result!”

      LIFE BAN.

    57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      BTW I’ve been digging through the FOI site trying to find documents which are NOT returned by searches for random extracts from their text. Results so far:

      RELATING TO SALMOND INQUIRY: 10 (out of 10)

      NOT RELATING TO SALMOND INQUIRY: 0 (out of 6)

      Hell of a coincidence.

    58. kapelmeister says:

      What can I say by way of atonement Stu?

      Oh I know.

      Leighton, McMaster, Kennedy, Miller, McLeish, Cooper, Simpson, Strachan, McGhee, Black, Weir and Hewitt.

      I didn’t even have to research it. Honest

    59. holymacmoses says:

      Is the it? I remembered reading it somewhere

      It’s in this lot

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000022790/

      After 2 responses you get this line

      For clarity, the name of the First Minister’s Chief of Staff is Liz Lloyd.

    60. Colin Alexander says:

      The “Whaes Like Us” attitude to Scottish independence cheeses me off.

      I mean the attitude: we need independence cos Scotland’s SNP are the good guys who can do no wrong. Scotland’s politicians are more honest, better human beings etc etc etc. It’s fantasy politics nonsense.

      Scotland’s politicians and civil servants can be (some ARE) just as dishonest and try to be as unaccountable as possible, as their English counterparts.

      A major reason why I support independence is because it could give a greater opportunity for the people of Scotland to hold our politicians to account because many of them aren’t good guys. Something the Union is designed to prevent.

      We should start as we mean to go on: we should be holding our politicians to account as our public servants, not looking up to them as our leaders and acting like their devoted fans whether they are SNP, Labour or Tory.

      —————————-

      Freedom of Information Requests are often not complied with or you get false / inaccurate answers, such as assertions that they do not hold that information, even when they do. You often have to resort to asking for a review and then going to the Information Commissioner to get answers.

      So it can take 6 months or more to get info.

      Two sites I recommend is: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/ so your FOI is made publicly, so others can see the information too and see the public body’s refusals etc.

      and

      http://www.itspublicknowledge.info which is the information commissioner for Scotland’s website.

    61. jfngw says:

      @Rev Stu

      This FOI;

      https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000032184/

      Search for ‘Madrigal-Borloz’ returns nothing.

      So there is some restriction on the search criteria, maybe they have just marked the whole text of the Former FM as unsearchable. If there is a reason then they need asked.

      Seems pointless trying to protect it if you can just search Google.

      Anyway as you consider my posts trolling I’ll just bugger off, many of your posters will be happy at least.

    62. Jules says:

      So…
      One of our most influential pro-Indy sites is now spending its time trying to bring down an SNP government, just as we have a sustained pro-Indy majority for the first time, and with a pivotal election in a few months’ time.

      I’m not trying to say who’s right and who’s wrong in this muddy business. I just wish we were all keeping our eyes on by far the most important prize, rather than all this.

    63. Jules says:

      To add to the post above:

      Or so it seems to me, anyway.

      Makes me feel sad all round.

    64. kapelmeister says:

      Watch out for fake Jules.

    65. Oneliner says:

      For clarity, the name of the First Minister’s Chief of Staff is Liz Lloyd.

      The above named must be a person of interest to the current inquiry. When does she give evidence?

    66. susanXX says:

      Keep your eyes on the prize, Jules? What prize? a Scotland where corruption is ignored because it’s the”good guys” doing it? A Scotland where reality is denied to protect “feelz”. A Scotland where predators are given carte blanche? No thank you!

    67. Breastplate says:

      Jules, it makes me feel sad all round that people think we needn’t bother with the mandates we have.

    68. McHaggis69 says:

      I can’t help feel this and another piece are out there, as much as anything else, as bait to test a certain legal department…

    69. McHaggis69 says:

      “One of our most influential pro-Indy sites is now spending its time trying to bring down an SNP government”

      nope, thats not what is happening clownshoe.

    70. Dave Beveridge says:

      kapelmeister at 3:41 pm
      “What can I say by way of atonement Stu?

      Oh I know.

      Leighton, McMaster, Kennedy, Miller, McLeish, Cooper, Simpson, Strachan, McGhee, Black, Weir and Hewitt.

      I didn’t even have to research it. Honest”

      Well if it’s the ECWC-winning side you’re talking about you probably should’ve cos Doug Rougvie was right-back that night and Stuart Kennedy was out injured.

      Sign of a truly great side though when a non-supporter can name them all these years later.

      We should have more fitba on here cos the politics stuff is way too depressing right now. 🙁

    71. Tannadice Boy says:

      @susanXX
      I am more optimistic than I have been for a while. We are at the fag-end of this desperado SG. A power culture unraveling as we speak. It should be obvious to everyone. A little push here and there is all it will take. Stage right Stu and followers doing a grand job. Although I am not going to be the one to mention the Motherwell result. Except to say I had Aderdeen on my accumulator.

    72. kapelmeister says:

      Dave @4:12

      I did have a nagging feeling I that hadn’t got the full backs right.

    73. kapelmeister says:

      Or the word order right. Jeez.

    74. Dave Beveridge says:

      Kennedy did get a medal though cos Fergie stuck him on the bench even though he’d no chance of playing. Said a lot for the man doing that.

    75. Jules says:

      Susan 4.03. Fair point… if there’s corruption then it’s wrong and should be exposed. I just fear that the people of Scotland (who need independence more than ever) might lose out on that because of very badly timed wranglings that they didn’t cause.

      And McHaggis – please tell me how you see it, then? As i said, I’m just reflecting how it feels to me, and it feels like such a bad time for all this to kick off. What would you like to see happen?

    76. Republicofscotland says:

      I’m in no way surprised that the Scottish government are concealing incriminating documents, all governments do regardless of FOI’s. The galling bit is what they’re concealing and who’s doing the concealing, and the fact that it surrounds the attempted take down of Alex Salmond by some of the hierarchy of the SNP and the Civil service in Scotland.

      Prior to the uncovering of this, we thought that we were all pulling in the same direction, we’re not unfortunately, for some though, its just too horrific to contemplate as being true, and they’ve chose to ignore it or denounce you and leave your site.

      I’m still hoping that the power grab will force Sturgeon’s hand on having to hold an indyref, regardless of the Gordian knot that she’s tangled herself up in.

    77. CameronB Brodie says:

      That is rather odd, not that I’m jumping to any conclusions, though I do know a bit about the epistemology of knowledge production, and how access to information affects our access to due process in law and the potential to access justice. 😉

      Journal of Business Ethics volume 160, pages 263–276 (2019)
      Epistemic Vices in Organizations: Knowledge, Truth, and Unethical Conduct

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10551-018-3897-z

    78. holymacmoses says:

      ignore my last post please – bad day at the office today:-)

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      And I’m not simply stroking my ego in public, this stuff is kind of necessary for us to enjoy the benefits of a functional democracy, the universal rule-of-law, and global sustainability.

      International Environmental Agreements: Politics, Law and Economics volume 20, pages 203–221 (2020)
      Epistemological and ethical understandings of access and allocation in Earth System Governance: a 10-year review of the literature

      https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10784-020-09469-5

    80. Oneliner says:

      Perhaps ‘covert’ operations are becoming a little too ‘overt’. That might explain the relaxed attitude of sewage stream media – the men in grey suits have told them to hold off.

      However, they must be worried about the amateurs they recruited to Civil Service Scotland.

    81. Corrado Mella says:

      Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths always lie, to everyone, including themselves.

      They’re so alien to truth and reality that they fabricate an entirely fictitious world, status and timeline of events to force fit whatever really happens into their deformed frame of mind.

      This same sub-humans (missing some fundamental parts of their ego, conscience and soul that would make them humans) are irresistibly attracted to positions of absolute power, as these give them the total lack of accountability that enables their life of lies to continue unabated.

      The more of these reach the echelons of power, the worse it becomes for normally functioning humans to counterbalance their insanity, until the threshold is crossed and the downfall of humanity is unstoppable.

      It’s a vicious circle that, left to rot unchallenged, will bring our civilisation to its knees, if not to an horrible, long-drawn and extremely painful end.

      I beg those in the medical profession that specialise in mental illnesses to speak up, loud and clear, about this unfolding disaster, before we’re left with no recourse than a purge.

    82. twathater says:

      Jules and others who feel disheartened at the multiple revelations coming out NOT rapidly enough I GENUINELY and SINCERELY ask who do you BLAME for your displeasure and disappointment

      Do you BLAME Stuart Campbell whose renowned forensic investigative prowess is acclaimed by ALL of us when it is directed at unionist LIES and CORRUPTION
      Or

      Do you BLAME the EVIL,AMORAL,UNCARING people (for that is what they are) who are and have done inhumane things to an innocent man, his wife , family and friends, the worry, stress and mental anguish NOT to mention the financial burden this has placed on a 65 year old man and his 83 year old wife is immeasurable

      ALL this lying and obfuscation by people who WE have entrusted with our DREAMS and ASPIRATIONS, to govern us with honesty and integrity and are now being exposed as nothing but pathological psychopaths who will stop at NOTHING to remain in power

      I personally want every piece of lies and corruption exposed and the perpetrators removed from any responsibility for Scotland , because Scotland the country and the people DESERVE BETTER than this evil shower

    83. Effijy says:

      Great eye, perseverance and resilience Rev.

      Fake journalists please do have a look at the real thing.
      Shame that there is an English version of the Rev that
      Can investigate dogmatically and use the truth as an
      essential thread throughout.

    84. Gary45% says:

      The question has still not been answered.
      Yes it is totally fair that Stu has uncovered many problems with the current SNP/ Scottish Government, as he has shed light on all the other parties.(the best journalist anywhere at the moment)
      I notice many “new posters” getting rather excited in the illuminating of SNP/SG problems.
      A simple question, As an “auld heid” who for decades has been voting for a party which is the only one who will give me any chance of Independence, which is now being dragged through the mire on all fronts.
      WHO DO I VOTE FOR IN 2021?
      I expect an answer, as I have had diddly squat in the previous times of asking.

      Scottish Independence First, then the other problems can be fixed, or simply keep sucking on the teat of the most corrupt, dishonest, shallow, parasitic self-serving house which is Westminster.

    85. Ottomanboi says:

      Under the aegis of Covid-19, by stealth, Scotland is becoming a fear ridden, repressive police state and it’s a nationalist government that’s doing it. Oh the bitter irony.
      Big Sister is a big bully.

    86. rockhaggis says:

      @
      Bob Costello says:
      “If I were you Stu , I would be checking my brakes and looking under my car before every trip I took and I am serious.” …. More likely to be Novichok, its the wests goto at the moment.
      @
      gus1940 says:
      O/T

      “I know it’s a bit early for an O/T comment but I think the following may be of interest re our wonderful media.

      Yesterday there was an item widely reported in the media that the husband of a former political person now wanted to be known as Elizabeth.

      Assuming that there would be further comment today I have accessed the on-line National, Herald, Scotsman, Record, Scottish Sun, Courier, P&J and the BBC and STV web sites.

      Total Silence on this matter.

      It has frequently been said that there is some sort of central control of the media by dark forces – is there any chance that it is pure coincidence that there has been absolutely zilch follow up on this story which verges on the sensational as regards the Scottish media.” ….. No surprise there. Newsprint ownership is no longer regarded as a viable commercial enterprise … Owners , and 90% of the Main Stream Press/Media is owned by just 6 of them who all share the same bed, do so to, control and manipulate the public mindset and perception to their advantage … apparently it works.

    87. Lukas Scholts says:

      Brilliant stuff, Rev. Brilliant.

      From a coding perspective, how are they doing it? If I understand correctly, the documents are there in the database but not showing up in search.

      Could they have been so stupid as to put some sort of “ noindex” tag on certain documents?

      Is it possible to right click and view page source?

    88. wull says:

      Great post, Corrado Mella. Spot on. Allow me to re-post it, just in case anyone missed it.

      Corrado Mella says:
      21 September, 2020 at 5:26 pm
      Narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths always lie, to everyone, including themselves.

      They’re so alien to truth and reality that they fabricate an entirely fictitious world, status and timeline of events to force fit whatever really happens into their deformed frame of mind.

      This same sub-humans (missing some fundamental parts of their ego, conscience and soul that would make them humans) are irresistibly attracted to positions of absolute power, as these give them the total lack of accountability that enables their life of lies to continue unabated.

      The more of these reach the echelons of power, the worse it becomes for normally functioning humans to counterbalance their insanity, until the threshold is crossed and the downfall of humanity is unstoppable.

      It’s a vicious circle that, left to rot unchallenged, will bring our civilisation to its knees, if not to an horrible, long-drawn and extremely painful end.

      I beg those in the medical profession that specialise in mental illnesses to speak up, loud and clear, about this unfolding disaster, before we’re left with no recourse than a purge.

    89. Wee Chid says:

      Jules says:
      21 September, 2020 at 3:51 pm
      “So…
      One of our most influential pro-Indy sites is now spending its time trying to bring down an SNP government, just as we have a sustained pro-Indy majority”

      And your point caller…?
      What difference does a sustained majority make when the party tasked with getting us independence refuses to do so, other than by begging the UK for permission, knowing they will continue to refuse?
      It doesn’t appear that we will be getting indy any time soon with or without the SNP so who cares if the corrupt shitebags are brought to heel?

    90. Lukas Scholts says:

      Wee Child: “ It doesn’t appear that we will be getting indy any time soon with or without the SNP so who cares if the corrupt shitebags are brought to heel?”

      Couldn’t have put it better myself. Of course, they are also the reason we aren’t getting it any time soon.

      Note how Sturgeon today is talking quite openly (all of a sudden) about Westminster controlling the purse strings and her options regarding covid being limited as a consequence.

      This is her trying to endear herself with the Indy support base, engineering a fake bit of sabre rattling in order to win people over.

    91. Dave Llewellyn says:

      I had a FOI information request from the website with the question from Richard Leonard about the meeting made on Jan 8th 2019 on the FMs statement after the collapse of the Judicial review. Strangely enough the request was dealt with by Liz Lloyd and signed off by Nicola Sturgeon. It vanished from the website two months ago

    92. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Gary45%

      There is no party advocating independence so we are all stymed.

    93. lothianlad says:

      I’m not a smug person generally, but, I do get a real sense of satisfaction knowing that our not so Scottish government will be sweating trying to cover up their part in this whole sickening affair!

      keep them on the ropes Stu, justice is one blow away!

    94. CAMPBELL WROTE: “The inescapable fact of the matter is that the Scottish Government website is actively concealing them”.

      Excellent work!

    95. Sweep says:

      @Gary45% 6.06 pm

      “Scottish Independence First, then the other problems can be fixed, or simply keep sucking on the teat of the most corrupt, dishonest, shallow, parasitic self-serving house which is Westminster.”

      Surely you’re not advocating for the first Government of an independent Scotland to be as crooked as the one we’ve just left? It’s not just another ‘problem’ that can be sorted out at some point further down the line. It’s festering and the boil needs lanced now.

      Sorry, but I can guarantee you that “OOR corruption is better than THEIR corruption” will never be a best-seller on any Indy badge stall.

    96. Andy Ellis says:

      @cynical highlander

      “There is no party advocating independence so we are all stymed.”

      I agree. I suspect many people here do too.

      My question then (I’ve been thinking about it a lot….sad I know, but humour me) is whether folk think setting up a “real” independence party is both advisable and feasible?

      Until fairly recently I was hoping a list only party might be enough, but it’s really not going to make a difference in the required timescale is it? Given what we see happening don’t we need to think….bigger?

      I’m not at all sure I WANT the SNP to be in a position to exercise power post independence, even if we may still have to rely on them to help get us over the line.

    97. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s a scary revelation, discovering the workings of government. Though I’m still not jumping to conclusions, or making claims to having any particular depth or breadth of professional practice. Though I once drafted a report that had virtually no original content by the time it went through revision and re-write.

      Time for some social philosophy?

      What Makes Epistemic Injustice an “Injustice”?

      1 Introduction

      The ability to be treated equally as a knower has in recent years become increasingly recognized as an important aspect of justice within social and political philosophy. Unfair and unjust communicative structures, institutions, and practices have the potential to reproduce and further exacerbate existing socioeconomic inequalities and injustices.

      Epistemic injustice is the idea that we can be unfairly discriminated against in our capacity as a knower based on prejudices about the speaker, such as gender, social background, ethnicity, race, sexuality, tone of voice, accent, and so on. The concept of epistemic injustice has fostered a large body of literature in recent years, which seeks to clarify the concept and apply it to practical cases.

      Yet, the literature on epistemic injustice has mainly focused on what makes an epistemic injustice epistemic – as opposed to distributive or socioeconomic – and little attention has been paid to what exactly makes an epistemic injustice an injustice.

      In this paper, I aim to fill this lacuna by asking under what conditions epistemic discrimination suffered by a knower becomes an epistemic injustice. In particular, I argue that we can identify five conditions that make an epistemic injustice an injustice.

      While the first two conditions – the disadvantage condition and the prejudice condition – are derived from Fricker’s (2007) arguments, I identify three additional conditions – the stakeholder condition, the epistemic condition, and the social justice condition – the violation of which create an epistemic injustice.

      The paper thus contributes to the literature on epistemic injustice by clarifying and extending existing work on epistemic injustice to identify a set of conditions through which it is possible to eliminate cases of epistemic disadvantage that are not unjust and make it easier to systematically identify and evaluate claims of epistemic injustice….

      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/josp.12348

    98. Gary45% says:

      So it looks like its, “don’t bother voting next year.”
      “OOR corruption is better than THEIR corruption” is certainly not what I said.
      Every party/government has their problems, just seems like the SNP are worse than the rest according to the media.
      Fact, SNP politician drops sweetie paper on the pavement, media would cry ” SNP cause environmental disaster”.
      “Unionist Politician pollutes river with millions of gallons of pesticide” three cheers for river management.
      So that’s the Independence movement finished?
      No SNP= No Independence vote for another 30 years, at least.
      Labour=NO
      Tory=NO
      Lib Dum =NO
      New Indy Party= 30 years.

    99. Asklair says:

      Keep digging, cheers.

    100. susanXX says:

      It certainly seems a distinct possibility Gary45%, but whose fault is that? Apart from the corruption the SNP are trying to drag Scotland down a road the majority don’t want to go, with regards to GRPB, GRA Reform and the HCB. There’s a word for a govt that disrespects the will of the electorate and that word is authoritarian. I want no part of that.

    101. twathater says:

      @ Gary45% 6.06pm WHO DO I VOTE FOR IN 2021?

      HERE’S a thought Gary why don’t the SNP members get together and FORCE NS and Murrel to stand down , CLEAR out the NEC of all the nutjobs, members know who they are, Then have a leadership contest between Joanna Cherry and Philippa Whitford and whoever wins will have integrity and honesty to LEAD the party and possibly be FM and the other will be depute leader and depute FM

      You will remember Robert Peffers and his INSISTENCE that the SNP is a democratic party with the policies and direction of travel being the will of the membership , when has that changed and WHO changed it

      THIS clusterfuck can still be fixed and WE can still get independence , but the answer lies with the MEMBERSHIP, GET HER AND HER CABAL OUT
      I as a non member can ONLY do one thing and that is not vote for a corrupt lying party but that harms my independence dreams but I will NOT give in to BLACKMAIL the answer lies with the membership

    102. Gary45% says:

      So next year, Who are you voting for?

    103. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “the answer lies with the membership“

      Prof JWR thinks so too:

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/09/22/snp-members-for-independence/

    104. Gary45% says:

      Stopped my membership last month, partly through reading so many negative comments on here. Cabal, Sturgeonista, woke etc.
      Sort of fell into the trap.
      The party has problems, show me a political party anywhere in the world that doesn’t.

    105. Desimond says:

      Has another hard drive been deleted by mistake…

    106. Christian Schmidt says:

      “We’ll let you know when we get a reply.”

      That made me laugh!

    107. Duncan Macniven says:

      Im truly baffled why a site which has the reach this one has devotes its efforts now to undermining the only organisation that has the ability to deliver Scottish Independence.
      Your not asking for funds this year you say, so that begs the question, where are your funds coming from to keep this amount of research and publishing afloat?
      We hear lots of accusations about spooks on the comments sections of every thing that is published in favour of Scottish independence, and much of it is accurate, as if the spooks were not active they would be failing in their duty.
      So what a coup it would be if the spooks got control of a website with the reach this one has. How would they achieve that? Well the Brits wrote the book on that one, the CIA are now grandmasters of the art.
      The SNP are like all organisations full of cliques, ("Tractor" - Ed)s, and devious ladder climbers. They are also the most investigated organisation in the UK. Despite all their faults I still believe that they are the only organisation right now that can get us near to Scottish Independence.
      2014 was a triumph for the SNP, taking on the Britnat machine and almost toppling it. At the last minute the machine won by lies and subterfuge, Scotland lost its nerve in the face of it. We have been humiliated and punished ever since.
      Imagine then had Nicola pulled the trigger this year, and we lost again, imagine the shitfest that would be. Humiliated does not cover it.
      I still have faith in her and the SNP, despite all the crap that is flying. I am really saddened to see this site turn against the SNP, nothing good can come from that.
      A coup has taken place in England and we are about to be engulfed in it.
      Surely we need every single voice united against that?
      Let the factions fight it out after we are independent.

    108. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I still have faith in her and the SNP”

      Then you’re a blind idiot and I can’t help you. Away and read some site that’ll assure you everything’s great and independence is just around the corner while Sturgeon and her cabal of crooked, incompetent woke liars blow the best chance we’ll ever have. All hail Queen Nicola! Just don’t come whining to me when you finally realise.

    109. Duncan Macniven says:

      Stuart I didn’t sling any abuse in your direction, so why do you think you can sling it at me. I’m neither blind or an idiot. I simply asked you questions. Apparently your a great believer in transparency and truth, eh! or does that just apply to others.
      I don’t want your help. I read many publications on a weekly basis.
      The SNP is the only organisation in existence right now with the machinery to deliver the independence I want, like increasing numbers of us. If it were Sheridan, or Davidson, or a one legged transvestite china man who could deliver it I would vote for them. Once that independence is achieved then we can decide who is the best person for the job. Your notion that I would come whining to you is quite bizarre. I didn’t come whining to you in 2014. I can sling abuse with the best of them. It solves SFA.

    110. Monsieur le Roi Grenoulleverteetprofonde says:

      Evidence is continuing to mount.It is getting like the moments before an avalanche when any random vibration can trigger the event. I really now give up all hope of SNP integrity.It really is time to reap the whirlwind that is about to blow.
      New independence party now.No matter how good P.A. sturgeon is, she is without any passion, fire, strategic ability. preferring to poke her nose in smelly intrigue. Despite all her ‘wokitude’ she, by her ill considered actions set the woman’s movement back and simply infuriated the majority by displaying a very poor(trite,shallow and ‘dilletante-ish’) understanding of the genuinely important issues surrounding women’s rights. She has reduced these difficult matters to simplistic whimsical lifestyle choice She is a mere ‘fonctionnaire’ -a teem boxe.

      Anyone with better understanding of these matters than I:
      How realistic is it to use all the blogging power here and elsewhere to rapidly recruit a membership for a genuinely left leaning independence party that can wipe away the self-defeating SLABs and leftover grubby 3rd rate Dross on the right wing.Does one have to register as a political party?



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