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Wings Over Scotland


The more that I saw you burning

Posted on January 17, 2023 by

The recently-restored Wings Twitter account has a little over 56,000 followers, the vast bulk of them accumulated at a time when this site had far less reason to criticise the SNP or the Scottish Government. So while this poll isn’t scientific, the indy-friendly nature of the respondent base makes it pretty interesting.

Those numbers closely mirror what every actual proper poll tells us about Scottish people’s opinion of the GRR itself – they oppose it by margins of between 3:1 and 4:1. So if the Scottish Government is counting on the UK’s intervention to increase support for independence, frankly it looks like they’re onto a massive loser.

This hasn’t stopped some commentators intelligent enough to know better (but whose previous detectable interest in the gender issue has been nil) from rushing out with little nuggets of comically ill-informed analysis:

Really? Being dragged out of Europe against our will didn’t move the indy dial. The rolling farce of Theresa May then Boris Johnson’s reigns as PM didn’t move the indy dial (not even Liz Truss’s “WTAF?” month in 10 Downing Street did). The cost of living crisis didn’t move the indy dial. Indeed, other than a temporary blip during the peak of COVID when Nicola Sturgeon was live on national TV literally every day, nothing has moved the indy dial in her entire term as First Minister.

Perhaps most pertinently, the Internal Market Bill – where the UK government literally invented brand new legislation in order to trample all over Holyrood’s devolved powers – didn’t move the indy dial. Yet Prof. Qvortrup apparently thinks the people of Scotland will rise up in revolutionary fury over the UK legitimately using law that already exists, because apparently the people of Scotland are so desperate to let rapists identify as women and be held in women’s prisons. Hmmm.

And let’s not lie to ourselves – the deployment of Section 35 is perfectly legitimate. Indeed, it’s the exact reason Section 35 was included in the Scotland Act for in the first place (and not by the dastardly Tories, but by Labour, and voted for by the SNP).

It wasn’t that the Scottish Government weren’t warned. They were.

It wasn’t that the Parliament didn’t know what was reserved.

Nor are there any real credible grounds to argue that the Scottish Parliament has not overstepped its powers by passing a law that impacts on the rest of the UK. Numerous careful and extremely detailed legal analyses – by people with no dog in the Scottish constitutional fight – have concluded that it does.

If the SNP don’t want Scotland to be subject to devolutionary law like Section 35, perhaps they should have gotten off their fat gravy-guzzling arses at some point in the last eight years and done something about independence. But they didn’t, so it is.

What, though, if the Westminster intervention was what belatedly drove some urgency into their entirely notional “campaign”? After all, we know how fast Sturgeon rushed to her broom cupboard to make her infamous grovelling video the last time the “trans community” were shrieking in outrage about something, and SNP apparatchiks have apparently suddenly rediscovered the pressing need for self-determination, mere moments after they were talking about kicking it at least four years down the road.

We’re joking, of course. There’s no point in Sturgeon taking the Section 35 issue to a judicial review – if the Supreme Court found in her favour, that would simply prove that the UK system works for Scotland (in the constitutional sense), and if it found against her that would only draw attention to her failure to secure independence. There’s no win for her to be found in the courts.

The ONLY thing that Sturgeon could meaningfully do to fight this intervention – if she genuinely believed she had the support of the Scottish people on the GRR – would be to trigger an immediate Holyrood election and run it as a plebiscite. An independent Scotland could pass any gender laws it wanted.

We know that she could do that tomorrow if she chose to. But we also know that she won’t. Because the truth is that Nicola Sturgeon cares about neither independence NOR the rights of trans people. It’s the reason she’s Scotland’s longest-serving First Minister but the one who’s achieved the least. Because all she really cares about is staying in Bute House and virtue-signalling for backpats.

She is our country’s own Theresa May, and she should share the same fate.

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  1. 22 01 23 19:38

    Radical Cartoonist Stella Perrett and Independent Councillor for Knowle, Gary Hopkins. Bristol mayor Marvin Rees refuses to be interviewed or even reply to requests. New transgender bill in Scotland. Rent controls in Bristol – Ex cop John Wedger on
    Ignored

0 to “The more that I saw you burning”

  1. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Someone mentioned on another post that this will be a helpful squirrel whilst avoiding any Police enquiries into a rogue £600k.

    Its all an utter shambles and the naivety of onlookers in UK Media who seem to believe this will start some mad uprising is quite amusing…they clearly dont know we are drowning in apathy these days after being led up the deep end of despair by current cosy incumbents.

    We will get to Sunday Politics with lots of huffing and shrugging and then go back to talk about Ferries by next week.

  2. Livionian
    Ignored
    says:

    Whilst I personally find the Scottish government’s gender reform law morally reprehensible, I am a fundamentalist believer in the idea that all of the legislation in Scotland should be the sole responsibility of the elected government of Scotland and should not be affected from interferences from outside our country, even when that legislation is something I disagree with completely. Therefore the UK government should not block Scottish legislation under any circumstances.

    Regrettably I find myself against the majority views of those on this site. Scotland should be governed by the democratically elected government alone under every circumstance, even in circumstances where the passed law is disgusting. That is how an independent democratic Scotland must work

  3. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    Yes, it has turned into a case of maintaining power, at any cost. That cost includes supporting the Greens in their moronic schemes. Not that the SNP don’t have moronic schemes of their own of course. Sturgeon’s reign is littered with failures.

  4. Alan Austin
    Ignored
    says:

    This whole situation confirms the reason I voted against a devolved Scottish Administration in 1999. The Scottish Administration costs us over £ 1 billion a year. For this cost where are the benefits we Scots should have seen??? The whole idea that a devolved administration delivers anything bar grievance has been verified. The current crop of MSP’s are incompetent and earning salaries way above their capabilities. Politicians in all parties are parasites who deliver nothing but noise. Get rid of all devolved administrations and their cost can be used for better uses.

  5. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “Regrettably I find myself against the majority views of those on this site. Scotland should be governed by the democratically elected government alone under every circumstance, even in circumstances where the passed law is disgusting. That is how an independent democratic Scotland must work”

    I agree. But we’re not an independent Scotland. That’s the point.

  6. fillofficer
    Ignored
    says:

    it’s astonishing that the scotgov legal advisors have allowed bill after crappy bill to be forwarded
    perhaps it’s intentional to display the FMs inadequacies
    surely she should be considering resignation by now

  7. Gregory Beekman
    Ignored
    says:

    As I said on a previous post, the problem with the SNP is that they’ve become politicians.

  8. Josef Ó Luain
    Ignored
    says:

    A flawless assessment of the facts at play.

  9. McHaggis69
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t be soft Livionian.

    Until independence is delivered the Scottish Parliament – being a devolved Parliament – will *always* be subject to UK control ultimately.

    I find it a little disquieting that in the circumstance where Scotland is run by a party who clearly interpret support for independence as support for *anything* and *everything* they do, that you would allow them and actively encourage them to essentially make any laws they wish without oversight of any kind?

    Independence also answers *that* particular question as the oversight will come from an electorate *NOT* bound by blind support for indy. Any party pushing through regulations showing as little public support as GRR in a post-indy Scotland would be signing their own political suicide note. Voted out and the legislation swiftly over-turned.

    An indy Scotland would be made up of many parties and I suspect GRR would be such a minority niche that none of the big-hitters who want to seriously run Scotland would give it the time of day.

    Hence we have this kind of law being pushed NOW, when the greens propped up by an SNP drunk on its indy fanbase. They both know its dead in the water if advanced in a post-indy scenario.

    So no, your clamour that Scotland should have a devolved Government but NOT subject to Westminster control is completely facile, and dare I say it, stupid.

    Independence and ONLY independence is the answer.

  10. Stuart
    Ignored
    says:

    Sturgeon is a shit Truss tribute act

  11. Geoff Anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    That test you suggest in the article sums it up.
    If Sturgeon really believed in TransRights and she was confident of Public support then she would be putting the issue to the test. If this was the hill to die on she would be collapsing Holyrood next week and calling an election. She would have the full support of the Greens, Labour and LibDems who would also wish to test public support for their TransCult values.

    ….but they won’t. It is easy to rig a Holyrood vote but giving the public a say would be too risky!

  12. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    As Roddy Dunlop rightly points out, which probably comes as a rude awakening to many, Holyrood is just a legislative play-pen to keep the Scots from pursuing other options. It’s not the Prime Minister or Westminster that is opposing the GRR, just the colonial governor whose role is to supervise the children.

    I be the righteous indignation from the SNP leadership is real. They haven’t yet figured out that they are emphatically not a government in waiting. If they were, the likes of Chapman and Roddick would have been laughed off the stage a long time ago.

  13. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    Restoration of Scotland’s Constitution is the real answer i.e. that politicians are subject directly to the people – if an Act is passed that damages our rights then the politicians can be jailed.

    Talking of which, the Scottish Prison Service is already breaking the law by allowing men to self-identify as women and putting them in female prisons. Surely a case can be brought against the SPS, a civil case if necessary. Eva Comrie. Roddy Dunlop. Can you help with this? A crowdfunder would be a success, I’m sure.

  14. PhilM
    Ignored
    says:

    If the law says one thing clear as day, there is no ‘I think’ (try saying that in a Yoda voice). It’s a kind of similar form of special pleading with the cry that the ‘Tories are just being political about this’ as if the SNP somehow magically are not in any way doing the same (let’s pass a hugely controversial unpopular bill just before everyone goes on holiday and everything winds down for two weeks).
    Roddy Dunlop puts it as succinctly as possible for the hard of thinking. Peat Worrier puts it slightly differently on the Twitter but because (it seems to me) he is definitely an independence supporter, his take is that the right way to have gone about this is to go down a section 33 route involving UK-wide law officers but if you read his thread, there’s no real discussion (possibly because of the medium) of reasons why a section 33 might not have been possible in this instance, so when he implies that this was somehow the ‘right’ way to go he does not or cannot back it up. His clarification on the question of ‘reserved matters’ versus legislative competence doesn’t seem to me to be as clear as he says it is. It wouldn’t be the first time that a grey area in a piece of legislation has been subsequently discovered actually to be significant (from memory…Gordon Dangerfield found one in Mark Hirst’s on going case against the Copfs).
    So I’m just reading in the Guardian that Sturgeotti has rejected Sunak’s offer of a collegial solution and she says it’s the Supreme Court or death, which gives those accusing her of being a grievance-monger some plausibility.
    Anyway let’s see what the reasons are from the SoS in about five minutes time, then we’ll really see the politics catch fire!!!
    A long day ahead…

  15. Allium
    Ignored
    says:

    @Stuart She is strangely like Liz Truss sometimes, isn’t she? But people project what they want onto her – Truss didn’t have that advantage. Give her the economic levers of an independent Scotland and the career destruction would be just as swift and surreal. Nicola is a really shit politician who plays a competent one on TV.

  16. orri
    Ignored
    says:

    Given the stated opposition to the current EA and their desire to have gender replace biological sex as the protected characteristic it should come as absolutely no surprise that the GGR Bill would affect the EA.

    The only question is whether the EA is reserved for any reason other than it being a Westminster rather than Holyrood creation.

    This is distinct from the representation in boardroom case where the stats being collected were being imposed by Holyrood rather than the UK.

    The complication is that the EA itself has exclusions, especially in the trans case, in order to allow the exercise of other rights. Some of which may be due to international treaty obligations. Which is not to say that there’s nothing in the EA itself that fulfills those. If the GRR stops the UK, even if only in Scotland, from fulfilling it’s treaty obligations then it impacts reserved matters.

    From the current SNP standpoint though they must know that they aren’t in power to implement policies that have as little support in Scotland and if they were to stand on that platform alone they wouldn’t get elected. Hell even in Ireland their version of this was snuck in on the back of other legislation.

    However Sturgeon has probably played a blinder as if there is a Holyrood election in the near future it’s doubtful they’d get anywhere close to a majority. The waters are also being muddied by proposing an electoral pact, even if only at Westminster, with other indy supporting parties which might result in the Electoral Commission classing those parties as a single entity when it comes to counting list votes. Obviously that sabotaging the chances of an indy majority would be entirely accidental and not designed to scupper the independence liferaft.

  17. Goatsdontsave
    Ignored
    says:

    I am at a loss as to why the Tories intervened. They know the legislation is unpopular in Scotland and is turning people away from the SNP. I would of let it go and let the infighting continue. Such a stupid hill to die on

  18. ClanDonald
    Ignored
    says:

    I disagree with you on the point that Sturgeon doesn’t care about trans rights. On the contrary, I think she’s obsessed with trans rights.

    Why else would she spend years manipulating the internal workings of the SNP to ensure only those who agree that TWAW are on committees and selected as candidates? Why would she bother introducing mechanisms to ensure the election of idiotic, unstable fools like Emma Roddick whilst getting rid of sharp minds like Joan McAlpine?

    She reserves a special kind of hatred for those who disagree, seeking revenge and spreading contempt, nurturing her gang of woke weans to dish out abuse to opponents.

    She has infected every area of government with the gender ideology, from hospitals to prisons, from courts to schools.

    She worships her trans chums, sending them emergency broom cupboard messages of love and support and describing the repulsive racist and misogynist, leeze lawrence as a ‘force for good.’

    It’s more than just virtue signalling – Sturgeon has been the driver of this absurd ideology from the start, it’s what she gets up in the morning for.

  19. Confused
    Ignored
    says:

    Glass half-full? Think of it all as an opportunity.

    Since the trans lobby is the most powerful political force on earth right now – forget israel, forget opec, forget the freemasons, all that … they are now “the daddy”; with their power hitched to indy, we’ve won : “an efter that … the gemme was mine”

    – I can’t wait to cut my dick off in an independent Scotland.

  20. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    This would be funny, if the reality wasn’t that for every cluster-f**k overseen by the Dear Leader and her squadron of flying monkeys, the prospects of an Indy Scotland gets put back by years.

  21. Neil in Glasgow
    Ignored
    says:

    Bit harsh on Theresa May, no?

  22. SadStuff
    Ignored
    says:

    Imagine if Nicola Sturgeon hadn’t grown up a closeted gay in Scotland in the homophobic, misogynistic 80s. She would now have no need for ‘conversion to my gay therapy’ revenge on the country, obsessively trying to ram sexual minority-obsessed legislation down our throats, i.e. protecting a teenage her in her own mind.

    She also gets to have the trendy young playmates (“Don’t leave me…eh…the party, gay and trans chums! I have abandonment issues!”) she never had when young, to gang up on the straight folk and bullying them/us like gays were genuinely and disgustingly bullied in this country 30-odd years ago.

    If she had grown up happy, feeling loved, in a community of gay peers, in a better country, she would not now be trying to (re)create this in Scotland for herself. She’s a now-gay-pride-rally-attending lonely and angry wee lassie pining for her lost teenage dating years, spent in the SNP youth wing she joined at 16.

    Imagine all the hassle that could have been avoided. She’s the perfect Scotland-hating divisive outsider element for her corporate handlers to use in service of trashing the independence movement. After all, Hell hath no fury like a teenage closeted lesbian scorned, with a (self) righteous cause to instill From On High into the nasty homophobic hetero masses…

  23. Cath
    Ignored
    says:

    The SNP could have used any of those things which should have driven a rise in Indy support to actually campaign and drive it. They could have made life hell for WM over Brexit, they could have shouted and campaigned against the internal market bill and made that the fight. They could have introduced an indyref2 bill for the 19th October and let WM try and shut that down. Instead they’ve rolled over for everything genuinely bad for Scotland & Indy, and focussed on this nonsense. The only possible upside is that Lab & Lib Dems also have so many idiots in them who’re zealots about this, the idea of rapists in jail might actually bring them round to Indy before genuinely anti democratic outrages would. But tbh, that’s such scant gruel as a “pro” it doesn’t exactly sell the independent Scotland we’ll end up with.

  24. Ted
    Ignored
    says:

    Not only has nothing much moved the Indy dial one way or another (as the Rev says), but the much needed Westminster intervention on this GRR is likely to move it,but move it towards preserving the Union. The feeling will surely be, thank God we have a body superior to the Scottish Parliament to simply say no to this type of play-acting.

  25. Alistair+Hunter
    Ignored
    says:

    I suppose The FM could get really, really, angry about Westminster interfering with her Parliament/ Government and do something – there again, probably not.

  26. Jeremy Dawson
    Ignored
    says:

    I don’t get this (ie the biggest box in the post). If the Equality Act says something about sex (which I assume it does), then why doesn’t that mean sex as defined in that Act, or other UK law?

    To put it another way, if the UK Act requires that certain persons be treated in a certain way, how can a Scottish Act change this?

  27. Wilie
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s Barrhead Boy on what Sturgeon fell heir to

    ” She inherited from Alex Salmond everything that was required to take Scotland out of the Union. A slick well oiled Government succeeding in every aspect of Scottish governance. True progressive policies enacted like free University education, free prescriptions, bus passes, free home care for the elderly, and many more too. She had a party with 115,000 members and growing. A YES Campaign group in the tens of thousands that was the envy of political parties throughout the democratic world. They were ready at the drop of a hat to campaign for independence, indeed, in 2015 they proved that when the SNP won 56 out of 59 Scottish Parliamentary seats at Westminster.

    A united political party with a healthy bank balance and a country ripe for the next phase of its independence struggle.”

    He’s bang on and with his summary. Contrast that now with what the mendacious obstructive piece of shit has delivered.

    Her legacy is crystal clear for all to see. And now mendacious bag of excrement is finished. Soon she will be gone.

    The toilet is about to be flushed.

  28. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Ted @1:00pm

    It’s not so much a Westminster intervention as it is a Scottish Office intervention, with Alistair Jack, the playground monitor, stepping in to stop the kids from throwing stones at the Equality Act.

    It’s abundantly clear that Holyrood, far from being a peer parliament to Westminster, is just an oversized regional council which has to follow the rules, just like everybody else.

    The idea that Scots can govern themselves, at least with this shower in charge, just took two giant steps backwards. It will take some time to undo the damage.

  29. Liz
    Ignored
    says:

    @jeremy dawson I’ve been following the progress of the GRR ever since it was mooted.
    In the 2010 EQA there are 9 protected characteristics, sex and gender reassignment being 2.

    The Scot gov under Sturgeon have been trying to amalgamate both those PCs into one.
    For women Scot took the SG to court on this and won on appeal, Lady Dorrian making the same point.
    The SG cannot legally amalgamate 2 different, distinct PCs since 2010 EQA is reserved.

    The Scot gov tried again, this time using the GRA 2004 instead of the 2010 EQA.
    GRA 2004 states that if a person obtains a GRC it changes their sex, for all purposes, they won that one.
    Lady Haldane saying that WM had not made plain whether sex was legal or biological.
    That’s the law for you, logically any sensible person would assume sex meant biological.

    There is now a concerted campaign in England by Maya Forestater and others to make it plain sex means biological.

    This has cost us the tax payer, £100,000s.

    I also agree that Sturgeon supports trans people above others.
    She’s never so happy as when she’s in the company of drag queens.
    The very 1st fund raiser I went to for Nikla, the main entertainment was a drag queen, never even thought about it at the time.

  30. Merganser
    Ignored
    says:

    Liz. @ 1.27

    The ‘Bisley Boy’ comes to mind.

  31. Breeks
    Ignored
    says:

    Stuart MacKay says:
    17 January, 2023 at 12:18 pm
    As Roddy Dunlop rightly points out, which probably comes as a rude awakening to many, Holyrood is just a legislative play-pen to keep the Scots from pursuing other options…

    Aye, but I’d like to hear Roddy Dunlop acknowledge that the Scotland Act arguably does codify the Constitution of the Devolved assembly of Holyrood, but the Scotland Act didn’t exist before 1998, and it is NOT the Constitution of the Nation.

    Nobody, (apart from Sturgeon maybe), is claiming Holyrood is sovereign, with or without the UK Supreme Court confirming it isn’t, but the Claim of Right and Constitutional Sovereignty of the Scottish people is an altogether different proposition.

    Both Westminster and their Supreme Court can dictate what they like to their puppet Assembly, even insist it obeys it’s masters in London, but they cannot encroach upon the popular Sovereignty of the people. But every once in a while, it would be nice to hear it coming from the Faculty of Advocates and Court of Session.

  32. Wee Chid
    Ignored
    says:

    Livionian says:
    17 January, 2023 at 11:46 am

    Even though that “democratically elected” govt won their election on false promises and then used the vote to show how popular their hidden policy of GRR was?

    Nah. Most people I know voted SNP for one thing and it’s the one thing they won’t deliver.

  33. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    @cath

    Ive often thought of current SNP and its advocates as thinking they are like some sort of Robert the Bruce in Braveheart. Sitting up there on a lofty throne of manners thinking its uncouth to get down and dirty and to show no respect to your masters.

    Sadly they neglect the fact that ultimately The Bruce had to resort to fighting and driving them out…being civil and polite just didnt cut it.

  34. Tom Halliday
    Ignored
    says:

    I find myself questioning why the SNP government didn’t go forward with a referendum bill, and then let Westminster cancel it out with a S35, then they would have had the backing of the whole indy movement, where now they have a backing of 30% made up from all parties. My head is nipping at either the stupidity or the brilliance, my bet would be on the former.

  35. Dan Hardy
    Ignored
    says:

    A full analysis of the issue by Dr. Michael Forlan, lecturer in public law, Glasgow University:
    https://policyexchange.org.uk/publication/the-scottish-gender-recognition-reform-bill/#contents__accordion

  36. fruitella the hun
    Ignored
    says:

    The Communists do not form a separate party opposed to the other working-class parties. They have no interests separate and apart from those of the workers as a whole. They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the worker movement.

    They do what Maggie and her pals from Democratic Left Scotland and similar have done: joined a growing party and transitioned it to their agenda – which is revolution. If an actual working-class revolution is out of reach they will make do with a cultural one. Ultimately they would pursue their equality fetish right into war – as we know the ruling class and their middle-class enablers will fight anyone who tries to take their wealth off them.

    Obviously the State’s bodyguards will be well aware of this and allow it as long as it’s incompetent. Incompetent warmongering is a tolerable form of peace though. Sadly, the old ecology objectives are, like independence, just retained as a carrot to get voters to give them jobs.

    The first paragraph is a direct quote from The Manifesto of the Communist Party 1848 written by a 29 year old intellectual contortionist who might fit right in with the TRAs

  37. James che
    Ignored
    says:

    It is now becoming obvios to even those that are in denial that Scotland does not have its own Scottish parliament if the Westminster Government can block Scots laws under any subject by chosen any clause in the Scotland Act.

    I doubt very much wether the Snp would still be in power under the Scottish Constitution of people Scottish sovereignty,

    But we are adopting Westminster legislation to Veto the the snp gender bill, the same top rule of application came through the Supreme court for deciding wether Scots can have a referendum in their own Country.

    The Scottish parliament is under the Westminster ” Scotland Act “the main controlling Authority of Scotland and it was always meant to be so.

    The people in Scotland wanting their independence exist in their country under Colonial rule of another ( countries legislation ) making a mockery of Scots laws.

    NS works hand in hand with UK, as can be seen with her close contacts recently.

    The reason Alister Jack had the “right” to veto the bill was because we are under the “Scotland Act”

    But then when we ask why he did it ?

    Because the Scottish natives were getting restless and it started protests that might of got out of hand,

    It is about management of the native population of Scotland and keeping the lid on control.
    This is why Alister Jack stepped in under Westminster legislation in the Scottish government in name only in Scotland.

    Now, how far would NS, the SNP, the greens, and labour ? would have got with this gender atrocity bill if the Scottish Constitution was upheld under “Scots Law” in a true “Scots Parliament” where the people are sovereign I suggest would be entirely different with no outside funding aid.

    The uk Branch office in Scotland as the ” Scottish parliament ” is Colonial in its very composite creation and existence,

    When Scots voted it in, they were not made aware of its ultimate long term purpose,
    The conversations within the House of Lords prior to being a approved Bill, nor of the logic behind the Westminster parliament legislation to stymie independence in Scotland under control of Colonial power from Westminster. And how it would over-rule Scots ancient Laws through the back door of a devolved government from England.
    It was all about maintaining a false union with Scotland,
    But the very legislation passed in Westminster breached the treaty of the union.

  38. Bob Costello
    Ignored
    says:

    It is amusing to see Nicola Sturgeon get her nickers ( or jock strap) in a twist regarding a clause in the Scotland act only a few weeks after taking ( at great expense) the UK government to the Supreme court on another clause in the Scotland act which is there because we are not independent, yet she has the tools available to make us independent. Resign and crash the parliament, but she won’t, because if we were independent she would have to stand on a GR ticket and she would be laughed out of the polling booth. How on earth did we get where we are

  39. James Che
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks.

    You got it in a nutshell.

  40. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    Stuart MacKay @ 1:27 pm

    “it is a Scottish Office intervention, with Alistair Jack, the playground monitor, stepping in to stop the kids from throwing stones at the Equality Act.”

    Yes Stuart, an oor daeless an deceitfu SNP MP’s are currently living up to that playgrund reality by behaving like a bunch of scolded bairns in the debate, aw spittin oot thair dummies an losin thair heids ower this utter c**p. Liberators not, intellectuals never, just a bunch of hopeless misguided duffers and troughers. Its all ‘beyond parody’, even as Tory Jack said. Its nae wunner we are naewhair near indy wi this shower who are all about gender identity at the expense of Scottish national identity and independence. They have cost our people and nation dear.

  41. Kelpie
    Ignored
    says:

    sarah says:
    17 January, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    Talking of which, the Scottish Prison Service is already breaking the law by allowing men to self-identify as women and putting them in female prisons. Surely a case can be brought against the SPS

    A judicial review brought against the English prison service on this very subject found that while it was harmful to female prisoners it is not unlawful. I doubt any case against the SPS would have a substantially different result. A good, brief, summary of the case is here:
    https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prison-policy-judicial-review-ruling-confirms-trans-rights-do-conflict-with-womens-rights

  42. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    This clip via Twitter shows three minutes of the rubbish spouted by Maggie Chapman on LBC yesterday.

    twitter.com/HeadWarriorTWM/status/1615245124539228163

  43. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Kelpie: thank you for the link to the English judicial review that found it wasn’t unlawful to put self-id “women” into women’s prisons.

    I find that decision surprising [to say the least]. Surely a reference to Human Rights law would have concluded that anything “harmful” to women prisoners would be illegal?

    Scottish law isn’t the same as England’s so a case might be more successful here. I’d like to see it tried.

  44. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    This is the most fired up we’ve seen of Sturgeon the Judas, on the UK governments use of S35 of the Scotland Act. At no point did the Judas refer her GRRB to the UKSC, yet she saw fit to refer the indy bill knowing fine well that the 2009 UK construct the UKSC would knock it on the head.

    One wonders if Sturgeon the Judas will now (as a push back at Westminster) activate her HCB which passed through the chamber but it hasn’t been implemented yet.

    It should be crystal clear to all who want to see an independent Scotland that it won’t happen whilst Sturgeon is FM, and it looks like the entire SNP party/government is one of careerists and independence would certainly interrupt that.

    Alba did call for the collapsing of Holyrood to hold a de facto indy vote, the problem is that they are not in power and we are looking at years away before they could make a real difference, I dread to think what will happen in Scotland in the meantime, for even if the Judas stands down, the heir apparent looks like being Angus Robertson, so thinks in the SNP will remain the same.

    Basically we’re f*cked unless you know different.

  45. crisiscult
    Ignored
    says:

    I’m in the minority group, and probably a minority in that because I also don’t support the Holyrood legislation. However, the question was do I support UK Gov intervention, which I interpreted as “Do you support a system that allows Westminster to intervene in decisions made in the Scottish parliament?

    S.35 is clearly not anti-devolution, since it’s part of the system and highlights how devolution, unlike Federalism, is just being allowed to do some things we say you can do, until we say you can’t.

    The intervention isn’t “anti democratic” since the term is such a protean term: Brits in Scotland, and Brits elsewhere use it to mean what the elected British Government want, while transwarrior MSPs use it to mean what the elected Scottish Government want, and others mean “what opinion polls say”.

    However, the furore does reveal something (if it wasn’t obvious before): Scotland will never be a grown up society unless it’s independent. Decades and decades more of believing we are shite, being controlled, resenting or even hating those who hold the control us, never taking responsibility for our shiteness, and therefore never having the agency or autonomy to do anything about it.

  46. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “However, the question was do I support UK Gov intervention, which I interpreted as “Do you support a system that allows Westminster to intervene in decisions made in the Scottish parliament?”

    You should have interpreted it as what it actually said.

  47. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    I see a lot of unionists on twitter and on mums net are reading this as a deliberate attempt by sturgeon to manufacture a grievance with Westminster to further independence. Bollocks! She’s trying to advance queer theory and build kudos for herself. Independence isn’t worth that shite.

  48. The Dissident
    Ignored
    says:

    On the altar of passing legislation that 99.9% of the Scottish population could have quite happily lived without, the strategic genius that is Sturgeon has allowed Westminster to represent the view of the vast majority of Scotland on one of the most contentious issues of our generation.

    I do not believe language has been invented yet to adequately describe how foolish and/or arrogant that woman is.

  49. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Thanks for that. The clip further down the thread where she crosses swords with Joan McAlpine is another eye-popper. She has that “missionary zeal” look in her eye.

    “If you don’t eat your greens, Maggie will come and chop off your genitals” is sure to be a meal-time favourite with binary parents for generations. Where are the Brothers Grimm when you really need them?

  50. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    The communards ” never can say goodbye” gay men treating lesbians as humans. Those were the days

  51. ScottieDog
    Ignored
    says:

    Wonder what would happen if the U.K. govt dropped their opposition to this in return for a 10 year cessation in the SNP’s ‘campaign’ for independence…

  52. Smithers
    Ignored
    says:

    How are people not getting this? SG overstepped their mark and they knew it. All the “I’m not for gender reform but WM is interfering” – Jesus Christ!! This isn’t difficult. Braindead Yessers have been worse than the Better Together side for a few years now.

  53. Stuart MacKay
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks @2:04pm

    Yes, the reality of what Holyrood really is, appears to be dawning on many. Hence all the self-righteous indignation from the SNP leadership, since they’re suddenly all on shaky ground in terms of political authority and the populace might decide to look behind the curtain.

    Overall this pathetic episode is a good thing. The more layers of lies and obfuscation that get scraped away the better.

  54. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    @Scottie Dog

    Given the ammo they’ve given “HELL NO” with the claim/ admission(???) that men becoming women was the main topic of discussion at Holyrood for last 6 years (FFS!), the outrage at its SoS driving a wedge through the union/ MPs pension plans, the allegation that following articles of Scotland act (to the letter) when they push through controversial legislation is undemocratic, etc) you mean?

    If they dont resign in shame tomorrow, Sturgeon should sack the lot 🙂

  55. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    The Scots people overwhelmingly don’t want the unamended GRRB, but Sturgeon the Judas isn’t giving up on it, our opinions (the electorates) mean f*ck all to her.

    “NICOLA Sturgeon confirmed the Scottish Government will seek a judicial review to appeal the UK Government’s decision to veto gender reforms.”

    The Judas on the bill that the majority of Scots don’t want, didn’t vote for, and the Betrayers government didn’t have it in their Holyrood elections manifesto nor their leaflets.

    “This piece of legislation that was consulted on twice, scrutinised probably more than any other piece of legislation in the whole lifetime of the Scottish Parliament, passed by a two thirds majority of MSPs, including MSPs from all parties in the parliament.”

    “Now, obviously, we will see what reasons the UK Government managed to set out in the order they present before the House of Commons. But I can say categorically, the Scottish Government will vigorously defend this legislation.”

    It should sicken everyone who supports an independent Scotland, and even those that don’t, that Sturgeon the Judas intends to bend over backwards to defend the unamended GRRB, a bill that the majority of Scots don’t want.

    For those that do support an indy Scotland its a sore one to take, on how the Judas is prepared to fight tooth and nail for this bill that Scots don’t want, but she and her spineless and gutless SNP MSPs/MPs didn’t put a fight up for the indy bill/Holyrood’s competence to hold an indyref, even though we the majority of Scots did give her and her party a mandate on several occasions to achieve Scottish independence.

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23257214.first-minister-inevitable-row-gender-bill-will-go-court%2F

    The SNP have been playing us for fools for years now, time to vote them out at every level, and to tell them to stick their carrots where the sun doesn’t shine.

  56. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    I would love an article that looked at the GRA 2014.

    What are the Tories saving is from?

    Are all these people who are opposed to the GRRB in favour of the GRA 2014?

    Can I ask everyone posting here if they are in favour of the GRA2014?

  57. Davie Oga
    Ignored
    says:

    Living in Ireland I find my interest in Scottish politics diminishing the longer that I am away. Kind of drifting from the independence debate. Mainly because until the SNP are either destroyed electorally, or have their leadership purged by the membership, its all show and no go imho.

    The biggest issues here are uncontrolled borders, the effect on crime levels and public services plus a housing crisis that has been going on for years now. Anyone moving here would do well to rethink unless they already have accomodation before arrival. Or failing that, destroy your passport on the flight over and go for the same free everything offer that nearly 10000 have taking up since the Irish govt effectively went insane and stopped effective policing of the nations borders.

    It came somewhat of a surprise however, when someone whom I can only assume is an SNP party loyalist or some trans fetishist, began spamming and trolling immigration threads (Irish are 90% – no more “asylum seekers” at the moment) with a call for EU and international sanctions against “England” for subjecting Scottish democracy over chicks with dicks issues.

    Must be nice to live within a polity where that is the most pressing issue, everyone is 100% in favour of open borders, it’s racist to expect people seeking asylum to tell the truth, and Nicola Sturgeon is God’s gift to the world.

    Incidently, no one replies to the nonsense that’s being posted. Calls for international action so men can dress in drag and stalk and harass women in their once safe spaces. Lunatics. Embarrassing that someone actually thinks this is the issue to fight over.
    People are too worried here about an inflow of migrants that, in 10 or 15 years, will see Irish people a minority on an island that many fought and died for in living memory. Or, where their children will live if they don’t emigrate. Or if its safe for women to go out on their own- there’s been spate of violent sexual assaults by the “New Irish” over the past few weeks. Ceud Mile Fáilte should be changed to Coig Ceud Fáilte. Only 500 welcomes from a thoroughly despised political representation that are as barking mad as the narcissists and habitual liars in Edinburgh-90% of normal Irish people want the border shut and every illegal off this island ASAP.

  58. Ian Brotherhood
    Ignored
    says:

    @Stuart MacKay (4.44) –

    Aye, Grimm stuff sure enough.

  59. Anne Johnston
    Ignored
    says:

    She sees herself as a replacement for Ursula Van Der Leyen. But we’re not even in the EU, so she’ll probably end up in America as the new
    Ru Paul.

  60. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    One thing I will say. Did Scotland adopting gay marriage before England not interfere with rights across the UK, so why not complain about that? I have heard many Tories arguing that we have created a two tier UK. Is that not the whole point of devolution?

    I deplore the toxic gender bill, I accept it is not the same as the gay marriage bill, but the principles the same surely. I think our parliament is run by a bunch of agenda driven third rate msps. But the utter hypocrisy of Tories on this, looks entirely deliberate.

    The bill should never have been passed. But two wrongs don’t make a right.

  61. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    A SNP MP trougher stands down.

    “THE SNP’s chief whip at Westminster has resigned just six weeks after taking on the position.

    Martin Docherty-Hughes has stepped back from the frontbench role citing personal time commitments.”

    https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F23255917.martin-docherty-hughes-quits-snp-chief-whip-westminster%2F

  62. Merganser
    Ignored
    says:

    Bob Costello @ 3.00pm. Are you imagining Nicola in the gents next to Alex and saying ‘ I have the same attributes as you’?

  63. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    A round up of the shouting match between Holyrood and Westminster on the unwanted by Scots unamended GRRB.

    https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23256487.live-alister-jack-sets-reasons-blocking-grr/

  64. Ross
    Ignored
    says:

    Having watched the westminster debate it’s got be said none of the UK govt side clearly stated the legal issues of the bill GB wide.

    I wouldnt be surprised if the Scots Govt won this if it’s been a policy disagreement rather than a legal one. If my understanding of s35 is correct.

    Fully expected the UK govt to vocalise the actual issues of the act GB wide. Regardless of mh view, they really didn’t.

  65. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    @Big Jock,

    The gay marriage Bill is nothing like the Gender recognition legislation. The effects are very different indeed.

  66. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Nicola Sturgeon confirms judicial review bid over gender reforms veto:

    https://www.removepaywall.com/https:/www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23257172.nicola-sturgeon-confirms-judicial-review-bid-gender-reforms-veto

    With this kept in the courts for a year or two, Sturgeon can frame the narrative in the run up to the next UK election as a forthcoming constitutional battle and keep the suckers to vote for SNP again.

    It also keeps her position safe from the young pretenders of the SNP Twitter youth wing as it makes no sense to have change in a continuing political crisis, even if it is manufactured.

  67. Viscount Ennui
    Ignored
    says:

    Ross says:
    17 January, 2023 at 6:01 pm

    “Having watched the westminster debate it’s got be said none of the UK govt side clearly stated the legal issues of the bill GB wide.

    Fully expected the UK govt to vocalise the actual issues of the act GB wide. Regardless of mh view, they really didn’t.”

    Agreed. However, I think the plan was to not get involved in that at this stage. The JR will be a different matter and, critically, the key point will be that Holyrood did not debate the main cross-border issues.
    This is a confirmation that HR is really a parish council populated by very untalented people. I hate saying this, but on the basis of intellect, the Tories came out as significantly more able than anyone else.
    In fact, they appear to be the only party I could vote for which is f*cking ironic.

  68. Colin Alexander
    Ignored
    says:

    Holyrood, like its Mother parliament, WM, is based on a system of “democracy” where politicians are elected to represent their constituents but are then “whipped” or coerced to vote according to the party leadership’s will.

    It is the opposite of sovereignty of the people: It is power concentrated in the hands of a political elite, especially those at the top of the ruling party.

    Politicians are then virtually unaccountable to the electorate for five years. Then another five years, and so on.

    We see the results at Westminster, Holyrood and elsewhere that follows similar systems of “democracy”: Corruption, incompetence and continuing social and economic inequality. Us and them.

    The reality is: At election time: Politicians want to serve us. Once elected: your archetypal politician wouldn’t give you their piss, even if you were on fire.

  69. socratesmacsporran
    Ignored
    says:

    Just watched a clearly angry Sturgeon stamping her feet and, to use an auld Scots word: “flighting” at Chris Mason about Westminster using a Section 356 order against the GRA.

    She was never as angry any time Westminster refused to agree to a Sectioon 30 order and an Indy referendum.

    She’s been taking us for a ride for years – but, when will the body of the SNP kirk waken-up to the fact, she’s been conning them for years – and get rid of her.

    Sturgeon and the SNP cultists are now the major impediment to Independence – WAKEN UP SCOTLAND.

  70. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    “The ONLY thing that Sturgeon could meaningfully do to fight this intervention – if she genuinely believed she had the support of the Scottish people on the GRR – would be to trigger an immediate Holyrood election and run it as a plebiscite. An independent Scotland could pass any gender laws it wanted.”

    No she couldn’t do that.

    Because an independent Scotland is the last thing the biggest betrayer in Scottish history wants.

  71. Kcor
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    17 January, 2023 at 11:50 am

    “I agree. But we’re not an independent Scotland. That’s the point.”

    She would never have been able to pass this as Prime Minister in an independent Scotland and she knows it.

    She has brought this about to create a clash with the UK government to draw attention away from the independence election which she and the SNP don’t want.

  72. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    SusanAHF says: 17 January, 2023 at 4:20 pm

    She’s trying to advance queer theory and build kudos for herself.

    I’ve always been meaning to try and read about Queer theory but I can’t seem to find a clear and definitive understanding of it.

    It seems to me that it is a competing hotchpotch of theories put forward but a number of individuals. In that way, it has no clear meaning and can mean anything.

    It clearly isn’t a basis for competent legislation or to base any form of social policy on.

  73. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    Viscount Ennui says:

    I hate saying this, but on the basis of intellect, the Tories came out as significantly more able than anyone else.
    In fact, they appear to be the only party I could vote for which is f*cking ironic.

    Maybe just better con artists than the rest.

  74. Roger
    Ignored
    says:

    Stuart has presented a cool outline of the legal and constitutional realities of the situation.
    But ‘reality’ is not in fashion. We can expect a lot of emotional wailing and, when it comes to any discussion of the legal realities, a lot of hand-waving and obfuscation. It will be interesting to see how the Lib Dems play it if the grra now becomes tied up with Indy. And as for Labour…Starmar is such a shifty dud that they won’t be able to say anything coherent at all. It will be all “yeah but, no but, yeah but…’
    Now will NS fight this more than she fought Brexit? Interesting question – I think she might because genderism appears to be her main obsession…but is that true for the general public? Tying Indy to this issue may not be the ‘wisest’ thing to do… but then, wisdom may not be her strong suit.

  75. Republicofscotland
    Ignored
    says:

    If Sturgeon the Judas gets her Judicial Review how much is it going to cost the Scottish taxpayer via the courts, recalling the kangaroo case against Salmond, it cost millions as Police Scotland had twenty-two officers working around the clock for four years looking for dirt around the globe on Salmond, not to mention the over half-a-million quid payout to Salmond because the bias process used against him.

    The frightening thing is that even though the prosecutions lawyers warned the S&G that they were hitting a deadend they were ordered to push on. I foresee the S&G’s lawyers under the orders of Holyrood pushing back against this in the courts at every turn costing the Scottish taxpayer a fortune.

    The Scottish taxpayer is going to be paying a huge amount for a bill (unamended GRRB) that the majority of Scots didn’t want in the first place.

    The SNP government/party are out of control, they are on an ego trip with this unamended GRRB and its going to cost the Scottish taxpayer a fortune in the courts.

    Get the SNP/Greens out of office when the time comes, vote Alba, Join Alba.

  76. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    Example of problems. Lets say the Bill is passed.

    I am a convicted sexual offender but I was born in Scotland though my offences occured in England. I can apply for the gender recognition certificate whilst in an English prison and also a new birth certificate with my chosen name which will be issued in Scotland, as I am a Scot. I can then demand transfer to a womans prison under Scottish law.

    But wait a minute, I am in England who do not recognise this law. Who is infringing my rights? Which government? How do I claim redress?

    Its a nonsense.

  77. ronald anderson@gmail.com
    Ignored
    says:

    ( The Secretary of State does not believe that the Bill retains or creates sufficient safeguards to mitigate the risk of fraudulent and/or malign applications and believes that the reformed system will be open to abuse and malicious actors.” ) .

    Alister was well on the ball there or my application as ah double wardrobe would have been in this week LoL.

  78. robbo
    Ignored
    says:

    Maybe the more fronts she has to fight on the better, eh Mr Murrell?

  79. sarah
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Colin Alexander: You are entirely right – the sovereign people of Scotland have no power nowadays over the politicians which is why we desperately need the proper Scottish Constitution to be restored.

    If you haven’t already done so, please sign up to both Salvo.scot and Liberation.scot.

  80. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ross at 6.01 and Viscount Ennui at 6.23

    This (the statement they were discussing) seems to me to set out the position pretty clearly, even if that wasn’t apparent in the House:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/statement-of-reasons-related-to-the-use-of-section-35-of-the-scotland-act-1998/html-version

  81. crazycat
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Ruby

    You might like this, if you haven’t seen it already:
    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-repealing-the-gra/

  82. ClanDonald
    Ignored
    says:

    Bob Mack:

    The problem with your argument is that the UK Government have already been allowing sex offenders to be housed in female prisons without having Gender Recognition Certificates. They have also allowed male schoolkids to sleep in girls dorms on trips, for male patients to be accommodated on female wards and for men to access women’s sporting events. It’s therefore going to be difficult for them to argue in court that these spaces and services are at risk of no longer being single sex due to the Scottish GRR bill.

  83. McDuff
    Ignored
    says:

    Livionian 11,46am
    There is nothing remotely democratic about Sturgeon or the Scottish government.

  84. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    So, of ALl the things the English government have done to Scotland e.g forcibly stripping Scots of EU citizenship, refusing section 30, retroactively altering legislation, the English illegal and wholly unconstitutional pretendy ‘supreme’ court judgement, interfering with indyref in 2014, stealing our oil, gas, energy and other assets on a daily basis, lying about the ‘vow’, the one thing, the only thing that gets them really angry and worked up is this freaking gender law.

    That tells us everything we need to know about the current SNP. Independence is just not on their radar at all.

    Hell mend them.

  85. Robert Louis
    Ignored
    says:

    Breeks at 204pm,

    Absolutely correct. The Scotland act is NOT the constitution of Scotland, and Holyrood is indeed Westminster’s plaything, especially when the FM simply refuses to adhere to or even acknowledge Scottish consitutional norms.

    You are also correct in stating that Given that Holyrood is a creation of English rule, it has zero bearing on the popular sovereignty which is a foundation of the CURRENT Scottish constitution.

    This is why Salmond and others are correct to call for a convetion of the estates, since such a body politic MADE IN SCOTLAND, and not by England or Westminster would be free from London’s undemocratic shackles. A truly Scottish democratic body wholly and completely representing Scotland and its people.

  86. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    @ClanDonald,

    Rights of trans prisoners changed in England. There are approximately 160 odd self identified female trans in prison and only 6 who have been deemed to fit the criteria, are in womens prison.

    This began around 2019. Started by Brandon Lwis I believe

  87. Andrew+Gordon
    Ignored
    says:

    I like many am in the majority of those who disagree with the GRR bill but surely after six fucking years of debate we wait until today for Alistair and Westminster to throw their toys out the pram ?
    What engagements have taken place in all that time with the Scot Gov.?
    It’s a total car crash that could have been worked around but both sides have had their heads up their arses.
    We are now going to waste millions on court intervention with a bunch of old crusty judges who have no idea what trans even is or any idea why they are even being asked to rule on it.
    It was up to our politicians to ensure this bill was considered and safe and they have all failed, again !

  88. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    The real issue is not really to do with what rights trans have. That will ultimately be decided in Westminster I suppose.

    The issue here is whether Holyrood has the power to create laws in reserved areas, knowing them to be such. That is the only question the Supreme Court must answer. Not the rights or wrongs ,but simply the jurisdiction on the matter.

  89. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    Livionian says:
    17 January, 2023 at 11:46 am
    Whilst I personally find the Scottish government’s gender reform law morally reprehensible, I am a fundamentalist believer in the idea that all of the legislation in Scotland should be the sole responsibility of the elected government of Scotland and should not be affected from interferences from outside our country, even when that legislation is something I disagree with completely. Therefore the UK government should not block Scottish legislation under any circumstances

    Why, do you feel represented?

    Do you suppose they even care about you?

  90. Jontoscots21
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for the clip of Chaptrans Ian Brotherhood. Also Stuart McKay for her exchange with Joan McAlpine. Sadly the Scottish Parliament is a joke and so is our democratic system. These middle-class woke rockets hobbyhorsing their favourite fads whilst ignoring the shit- heap of problems piling up in real life. That’s what happens when with Sturgeon at the Apex you allow a studentocracy to dominate our country. I broke my heart yesterday watching a blind man in Falkirk left with his disabled son in a house with stairs. He needs housing urgently. The night before a food and care service keeping people with chronic needs out of hospital denied funding by Glasgow District Council. Our beloved country is broken and corrupt,

  91. Roger
    Ignored
    says:

    @Bob Mack
    “The issue here is whether HR can legislate in reserved areas”

    And the blindingly obviously answer is NO – ‘reserved’ means it’s reserved to WM and the SG has no competence/jurisdiction in that area. That’s what the Scotland Act makes plain. And HR is a creature of, and creation of, the Scotland Act. Some might imagine or try claim that HR is based on the will of the Scottish people or on the ‘scottish constitution ‘ or some such – and maybe it should be – but it isn’t. It’s a creature and creation of the SOVEREIGN WM parliament.
    It’s that simple. The current Scottish parliament is not the same as the one that existed pre-1707 – that was a parliament of a sovereign country. The current SP is just a devolved UK body.
    But we all KNOW this – and if you try pretend it’s not, UK law and the Supreme Court will remind you v quickly. As Enoch Powell said way back,”power devolved is power retained’.
    If reserved matters were NOT ‘reserved’, Scotland would be an independent country – but it’s not – why are people so shocked every time they rediscover this?

  92. Ruby
    Ignored
    says:

    crazycat says:
    17 January, 2023 at 8:25 pm

    @ Ruby

    You might like this, if you haven’t seen it already:
    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-case-for-repealing-the-gra/

    Thanks crazycat that’s an interesting article.

    I believe if you were trying to sell the GRA2004 to people today they would be as opposed to it as they are to the GRRB.

  93. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    Will we now see £millions wasted in court cases against the advice of the experts that
    the Bill cannot stand?

    The did just this with Alex Salmond.

    Will the Transgressors assault Westminster parliament the way they did Holyrood?

  94. LarsMoller
    Ignored
    says:

    Aren’t the arguments being made here in support of the UK Government position on reserved matters the same sort of arguments that most Scottish independence supporters opposed when the UK Government said you couldn’t have a referendum because constitutional matters were reserved?

    For clarity, I’m not a supporter of gender reform and I oppose it whether it’s reserved or not. I don’t understand why others in the same position feel the need to cloak their opposition to it in the sort of demeaning terms that the UK Government is using.

    Why can’t you just oppose it and be glad that it is being blocked, without bowing to the terms of the Scotland Act that make Scotland subservient?

  95. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    ClanDonald says:
    Bob Mack:

    “… The problem with your argument is that the UK Government have already been allowing sex offenders to be housed in female prisons without having Gender Recognition Certificates. They have also allowed male schoolkids to sleep in girls dorms on trips, for male patients to be accommodated on female wards and for men to access women’s sporting events. It’s therefore going to be difficult for them to argue in court that these spaces and services are at risk of no longer being single sex due to the Scottish GRR bill… ”

    All these things have been done under the advice of Stonewall via their Stonewall champions and have no actual basis in law. The Equality Act 2010 needs to be rewritten to reflect the category of ‘sex’ as being biological sex and only biological sex, doing away completely with legal rights for transsexuals under the sex category and confining their rights to the gender reassignment category. Otherwise, there is simply no way that self-ID will not lead to the overwhelming of female and children’s rights.

    Not only that, but we have to return to the equal but different protections required by each biological sex, acknowledging that the sex protections for females must, by dint of their different biology, afford females (and children of both sexes) different protections. That, I believe, was what the 2010 EA was intended to do. I think we must also take on board that, perhaps, there are far, far more middle-aged men, in the wider population, with paraphilias, than was ever suspected. If the SG contends that the demands for a GRC would have increased 10-fold if this stuff had passed, it would be safe to say that this could be a massive underestimate. Also, if a GRC affords anyone, including sex offenders, to change their names, etc., a GRC will become the norm, with self-ID allowed anyway while they are waiting for the GRC.

    It has always puzzled me as to why – apart from the billionaire backers, the psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, sadists and plain porn-sick that are in plain view – so many people in positions of influence and power are into this stuff. If we accept that the banking crash and other financial messes were largely the end result of the pursuit of wealth, and perpetrated by men obsessed with power and influence for their own sake, and regardless of the harm to society as a whole, is it a step too far to think that we may well be seeing the same thing here, but with a mix of paraphilias/fetishes and money being the motivator? Perhaps this is why the ‘trans’ lobby shuts down any mention of sexual motivations, and why we are not seeing the obvious?

    In other words, are the very people who are supposed to be making decisions on our behalf, running the economy and society, putting their own needs and desires above those of the communities they serve? Or is it just good old cowardice in the face of the ‘trans’ activism? Something is going on that has grabbed the attention of politicians and big business CEOs and many others in influential positions, all over the West, because every country’s movers and shakers are pushing this stuff.

  96. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    LarsMoller,

    I do not think people are bowing to the Scotland Act. They are just dealing with the cards dealt to them. We all want to be liberated ,but the only people who can facilitate that politically seem disinterested in making it happen and have focussed on other priorities.

    Perhaps that puts a laser focus to our frustration and results in us venting our annoyance at their decisions, which serve the few rather than the many. We have after all watched opportunity after opportunity on more pressing matters affecting our Independence as a nation pass them by with less of a fight.

  97. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Ruby: good question. Are we all in favour of the GRA 2004? Are we all in favour of its retention since practically every detail is now contained in other legislation? NO GRA, no GRR. The 2010 EA also needs to be taken apart and reassembled in a far more legally meaningful sense. I do not believe for one second that the jurists who drafted the 2010 EA meant gender reassignment to be self-ID or that the protected category of ‘sex’ should be anything other than biological sex. There was no TWAW in 2010, so no legal basis whatsoever for including them (transsexuals) in that category. Basically, they now have two categories to choose from, while females have none that is secure, and, on top of that, all the other characteristics are under threat because women can also be all of those, so, by dint of having access to the (legal) sex category can ‘trans’ identified men. Lady Haldane’s ruling was slack. Females no longer, as things stand, have absolute protection under the sex category of the 2010 EA; it will always be qualified by TWAW.

  98. Lorna Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    Big Jock: same sex marriage was introduced in the 2004 GRA which is UK-wide legislation, adopted across the UK. It is all but defunct because new legislation has enshrined gay rights. It is Scotland (Holyrood) that is out of step here, however much it hurts to admit it. ‘Trans’ ideology is inimical to gay rights as it is to female rights. The ‘conversion therapy’ legislation lined up next by the ‘wokerati’ at Holyrood is designed to ‘trans’ away the gay from the earliest ages.

  99. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    She’s a Grade A weapon.

    The Yes movement needs to dump her & the Greens fast.

    She has bad bad advisors. She’s either as thick as shit to see they’re pissing themselves laughing at her stupidity & watching her stumble from one disaster to another or she is fking punch drunk on her own hyper inflated ego & ignores the advice of everyone.

    The pampers brigade were equally as dumb. Any I tried to engage with by stating the fking obvious *You’ll not change the law without Indy 1st* would just end with me in the social media kooler for a day or two as they had an epic rant to ‘Fck Indy! They were all dyyyyying!’

    She’ll huff, puff & move on to the next bandwagon to jump on until she’s stopped & her whole rotten crew go with her.

  100. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    The conversion therapy legislation will also be one big massive waste of time & money.
    You’ll not ever tell a parent that it’d be a criminal offence to discuss anything they like with thier own children.
    They’re not the governments children & no deviants will enforce otherwise.

    Whatever civil servants are working on that horror need sacked & thier hard drives investigated. STAT!

  101. Rev. Stuart Campbell
    Ignored
    says:

    “It’s a total car crash that could have been worked around but both sides have had their heads up their arses.”

    No. This is ALL on the Scottish Government. The UK government is not allowed to intervene until the law is passed. And the SG were told time and time and time again that it was likely to impact on UK equality law.

  102. Colin Alexander
    Ignored
    says:

    It should not be for our imperial overlord to limit the ability of parliament to legislate. However, we aren’t in a situation that allows sovereign Scots to place limits on what the colonial parliament or colonial government can do. As, we don’t live in a functioning democracy founded on the sovereignty of the people of Scotland.

    We live in a situation akin to a colony of England where the MSPs of all parties uphold England’s Crown in Parliament UK sovereignty, where Holyrood politics is just like Westminster but with nicer scenery.

    A future independent Scotland should take immediate action to enable the sovereignty of the people is effective in a practical sense as the bedrock of our constitution and laws, and not just a hypothetical ideal. Holyrood has shown when Scots politicians follow the English parliamentary model of elected tyrants, it leads to more abuses of power and bad laws.

    We must move away from a political model that enables politicians to be largely unaccountable once elected and so become our rulers.

  103. twathater
    Ignored
    says:

    @ Livonian 11.46am You wrote
    Regrettably I find myself against the majority views of those on this site. Scotland should be governed by the democratically elected government alone under every circumstance, even in circumstances where the passed law is disgusting. That is how an independent democratic Scotland must work

    Theoretically and morally you are right but what defeats your argument is the democratic bit

    The politicos in WM were elected by the voters to carry out their manifestos if they won , the snp won so they were entitled to carry out their manifesto promises, there is NO mention anywhere within their manifesto of self identification so THEY are working outwith the parameters they were elected on ergo they are acting undemocratically

    I and many others wrote to our MP’s and MSP’s voicing our disgust and disagreement with the proposals but the response from politicians of all parties was woeful, I have been highlighting the fact continuously that sturgeon deliberately opened up the consultation on the legislation to persons and organisations from across the world with vested interests in the legislation to gerrymander the results of the consultation

    What other country involves people from elsewhere to determine the future direction or legislation of that country, where are the consultations of countries around the world that Scots can have input on that massively impacts on their citizens

    People and organisations who may never visit Scotland or contribute beneficially to Scotland are imposing their beliefs on our people without any consideration of the outcome , surely that is undemocratic

    When the majority of citizens are opposed to proposed legislation or policy it is surely undemocratic to ignore the wishes and concerns of the electorate
    I despise the intervention of WM at any time but I despise our politicians more for creating a situation which gave them the opportunity to do so

  104. Confused
    Ignored
    says:

    Funny old day – very queer, and a sad day when, let’s be absolutely clear – EVIL ENGLISH TORY BASTARDS – are now “the good guys” and the “voice of reason” (for one day only)

    Nikki was on the telly bleating these words about the trannies –

    vulnerable

    stigmatised

    marginalised

    then I read this, and had a chuckle (its not actually funny, to be clear, but the juxtaposition)

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10077552/transgender-woman-rape/

    since this topic is so very, very dull, ended up reading something -spicy- about the PROFUMO affair, and this character shows up

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_Cowell

    which is a weird synchronicity (read the lot, “Roberta” did have -her- reasons, she was intersex, male characteristics but with a chromosomal abnormality, XX, and despised XY trannies who had the surgery.)

    in the profumo book, the TAVISTOCK clinic appears, with shady doctors doing weird experiments on people, drug induced hypnosis, psychological conditioning; this is all not mere bizarre memetic social contagion, but something quite sinister, coming from the depths, and well funded and organised.

    and another for good measure; this is “nuts”.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11277033/Samantha-changed-gender-three-times-happier-ever.html

    Lionel Richie sings “one, twice … THREE TIMES A LAYDEE … ”

    What the hell is going on here, really; did you see the state of Nikki – a phrase someone else mentioned “the hill she will die on … ” – well, it seems so, for it aint indy

    Consider the sequence :

    Hey Nikki – we’ve had a MATERIAL CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCES, the UK is in disarray and the tories are attacking each other … let’s GO FOR INDY – strike while the beast is wounded

    now is not the time
    washing my hair
    stop brexit
    oh no this covid
    oh no the economic consequences of brexit
    oh no the economic consequences of covid
    new variant covid
    wind up the bints and sic the cops on salmond

    we shall endeavour to persevere in pursuing a course of action to put in place all the processes necessary to propose a section 30 referendum at some point in time if nothing else happens to my recollection …

    Hey Nikki – UKGOV HAS PUT THE KIBOSH ON YOUR FLAGSHIP BILL FOR FORCIBLE LEGAL RECOGNITION OF THE INSANE DELUSIONS OF AN EXTREME MINORITY

    Nikki says : RAMMING SPEED !!!

    (hands out explosive vests)

    Maggie Chapman at least looks tranny, as does Lorna Slater.

    Is Scotland the world’s testing ground for globalist social engineering? I mean, this is a homogeneous society, socially “conservative”, with a traditional macho NAE P00FS culture; if they can do it here, they can do it anywhere.

    – the DAVOS crowd is gathering soon, here’s hoping mad vlad thermobaric-alises them, does the world a favour; never mind the monkey, go for the organ grinders.

  105. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    twathater @3:46

    From the 2021 SNP manifesto:

    “Gender Recognition Act

    We remain firmly committed to improving the lives of trans and non-binary people. Trans people continue to experience stigma and prejudice and suffer poorer health outcomes relative to the wider population. This needs to change.

    We are committed to tackling transphobia head on through inclusive education and action to tackle prejudice and hate crime.

    In the next parliament we will work with trans people, women, equality groups, legal and human rights experts to identify the best and most effective way to improve and simplify the process by which a trans person can obtain legal recognition, so that the trauma associated with that process is reduced. We remain committed to making necessary changes to the Gender Recognition Act that arise from this work at the earliest opportunity.

    We will ensure that these changes do not affect the rights or protections that women currently have under the Equality Act.

    It is important that concerns about reforms to gender recognition law are addressed through informed and respectful discussion. However we must not allow them to be a cover for transphobia or disinformation.”

    The road to hell…etc.

  106. Willie
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev, comnents are still disappearing into the ether never to surface.

    This must be happening to others.

    Is there anything you can do. Is your site being interfered with and compromised.

  107. Roger
    Ignored
    says:

    Good law requires clarify of language. What we have at the moment is (deliberately created) linguistic confusion. What does ‘gender’ mean and how is it different from ‘sex’? Is ‘woman’ a gender or a sex? If woman is a sex category, how can the GRA legally ‘change’ a man into a woman? It’s a plain nonsense. And if it’s accepted that ‘gender’is not ‘sex’, WHAT is it? I know the usual answer is given in terms of roles and stereotypes attributed to men and women, but what then is ‘gender recognition ‘? The only meaning I can see it having is something like the right to adopt the behaviour and dress stereotypically associated with the opposite sex. It can not mean the individual has become the opposite sex.

    The GRA is incompatible with sex based rights as long as the term ‘gender’ is allowed to be synonymous with ‘sex’. There either has to be a clear legal definition of what the term ‘gender’means that distinguishes it from sex, or it needs to be scraped as a legal term owing to it being a confusing and ambiguous term.

    As the law currently stands, men have the right to change ‘gender’ and become ‘women’. If they are ‘women’ they can’t legally be women only in some circumstances but not in others – such as in sports or in toilets. That’s inconsistent and incoherent and thus bad law.

    The only way to resolve this is to drop the term ‘gender’ totally as a legal term. They can keep it in the gender studies departments of US universities if they want, but it has no business in our legal system.

  108. paul
    Ignored
    says:

    Rejoice,brothers and sisters

    The FM has invoked a section 35 intervention!

    While it might be less than useful than a conflict over raising the national living wage within scotland,improving the lives of less abled within scotland and,heaven forfend,deciding on an independent scotland, this is the hill the FM chooses to lie on.

    From the war promoting rag,the guardian(of what?):

    Scotland’s social justice minister, Shona Robison, told MSPs that the order represented “a pattern of behaviour” of attacks on devolution by the UK government.

    Robison said: “I want to be very clear to all trans people that I know will be incredibly upset by this decision: this government will seek to uphold the democratic will of this parliament“.

    I cannot recall where this issue has been shown to be a matter of great concern to the actual demos, let alone all of the subset of trans people (<0.5% at most).

    I do not recall where it has been illlusrated that you can call a whipped vote over an unmanisfested electoral issue "democratic will".

    I do seem to recall that the recent UK supreme court decision that scotland is not a colony, but a region with no say in its own future, was immediately and enthusiastically accepted and,even worse,respected.

  109. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    LarsMoller says: 17 January, 2023 at 10:33 pm

    Aren’t the arguments being made here in support of the UK Government position on reserved matters the same sort of arguments that most Scottish independence supporters opposed when the UK Government said you couldn’t have a referendum because constitutional matters were reserved?

    Logically you are right but the problem is that in reality, the indy movement would have to oppose everything that came out of the Westminster system.

    That is impossible to do because all the movement would be become is an opposition party that is no different to the other political movements inside the Westminster system and therefore be part of it, rather than an separate alternative.

    Additionally, taking such a position, the movement ends up getting hijacked by other movements with others agendas, whether related or unrelated to it’s core idea which is Scottish independence. This Trans issue perfectly highlights this.

    In a perfect world, the indy movement would be at the forefront of every bread and butter issue but the reality is with the size of it’s influence and what it can actually achieve, it can only do so much and needs to concentrate on what it perceives is the best solution to deal with these issues which is to get a political system in place to deal with the problems that our society has in place.

    For example, even if the SNP was on the right side at the moment, what can they do with the limited powers they have at HR and being the 3rd party at Westminster to realistically do to deal with the cost of living crisis and the vulnerable who are affected?

    Additionally, even if the indy movement wasn’t so fragmented and had the ability to get tens of thousands on the street and focused on the cost of living crisis, would the Londoncentric establishment pay a blind bit of notice towards them?

    This is where idealism and pragmatism collides and hard choices has to be made. It isn’t pretty and hard choices need to be made to have realistic chances of success.

    The alternative as I have previously said with this Trans issues, is that the movement tries to be something with everyone and ends up getting bogged down in issues that have nothing to do with independence and only comes to the fore because it is driven by individuals who can shout the loudest.

  110. PacMan
    Ignored
    says:

    Willie says: 18 January, 2023 at 5:18 am

    Rev, comnents are still disappearing into the ether never to surface.

    This must be happening to others.

    Is there anything you can do. Is your site being interfered with and compromised.

    Same thing is happening to me but the comments eventually appear so just need a bit of patience.

  111. stuart mctavish
    Ignored
    says:

    So much passion for the freedom of Scots to identify as women who’ll only take it in the rear!

    Much courage to all poor Sods lucky enough to be working alongside true Englishmen this morning, barring a good run from Murray in the australia (spit) experimental drugs open it could be a tough couple of weeks before the rugby has chance of turning things around (ie when players will be obliged to refuse to play in pink and AUOB can add a “THANK” and “FOR” to their controversial Tory banner(s))

  112. John Main
    Ignored
    says:

    @stuart mctavish says:18 January, 2023 at 8:26 am

    So much passion for the freedom of Scots to identify as women who’ll only take it in the rear!

    AUOB can add a “THANK” and “FOR” to their controversial Tory banner(s))

    Thanks for first laugh of the day!

    Maybes the only one.

  113. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    What really concerns me is the way that politicians and other advocates of the proposed GR legislation try to brush off legitimate concerns (female privacy and safety etc) – no respect whatsoever. The message I get is “Yer all too stupid to understand, there is no evidence blah blah blah!”, “Leave it to us”. Well, sorry, no, what gives them the right and authority to rubbish genuine concerns and push through this legislation that, frankly wouldn’t be supported by the majority of the population? As for evidence – does something tragic have to happen before everyone wakes up and starts paying attention?

  114. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    Twathater (don’t we all) says:

    I and many others wrote to our MP’s and MSP’s voicing our disgust and disagreement with the proposals but the response from politicians of all parties was woeful, I have been highlighting the fact continuously that sturgeon deliberately opened up the consultation on the legislation to persons and organisations from across the world with vested interests in the legislation to gerrymander the results of the consultation

    What other country involves people from elsewhere to determine the future direction or legislation of that country, where are the consultations of countries around the world that Scots can have input on that massively impacts on their citizens

    You are right, the consultation was (deliberately) a sham.

    But this is par for the course. It’s common practice in the EU and Westminster does it all the time. They’re not interested in hearing what voters want, they’re constantly looking for ways to get around the voters to do what they, the political class, have already decided. The general attitude of MP’s, MSP’s and other elected (and unelected) officials towards the great unwashed is barely concealed contempt. We are less welcome than chewing gum on their kitten heels.

    Been manufacturing consent for so long, they forgot what consent is. Do you remember anybody *voting* for £5000 electricity bills, massive reductions in our living standards, and endless foreign wars? Me neither.

    Democracy is in big trouble, everywhere in the Western world. Just so happens that this time, in Scotland, a lot of eloquently argumentative people are paying attention.

  115. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    Sturgeon’s SNP are so inept it is hilarious but also frightening considering the huge responsibilities they ‘manage’.

    So reading all this on here, this bill never had a chance as it clearly conflicted with the equalities act. Wow, shocked but not surprised.

    Seemingly the SNPG ploughed ahead with it even though it was (as we can see now clearly and evidently) legally fatally flawed right from from the very start, and even a basic understanding of the law would have made that obvious to someone looking at it…

    This kind of colossal cock-up is certainly what you would expect to see when you pick people based on ‘gender’ or sexual preference or their actual sex or whatever bullshit quota you are filling that week instead of their competence and ability to do the job.

    But in this instance it looks very much like the SNPG wanted to make this exact issue and no other into a ‘constitutional’ drama… instead of it being a real and righteous fight about our innate national right of self determination. That is the battle we should be having not this shite.

    Sturgeon is supposed to be a lawyer right. Even a crappy one must have known what would happen here… and yet she ploughed ahead anyway… why. Because for whatever reason, it was not to further the cause of independence I am pretty sure about that.

    This all seems a bit stage managed. It is a win for Westminster, a win for Sturgeon and yet again a big lose for the independence movement, another massive misdirection and total waste of time.

    Again Sturgeon has just transplanted the real fight that everyone wants for a fake fight that no one wants.

  116. Dorothy Devine
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac , round of applause from me.

  117. Dan
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac says: at 9:48 am

    “Sturgeon’s SNP are so inept it is hilarious but also frightening considering the huge responsibilities they ‘manage’.

    So reading all this on here, this bill never had a chance as it clearly conflicted with the equalities act. Wow, shocked but not surprised.

    Seemingly the SNPG ploughed ahead with it even though it was (as we can see now clearly and evidently) legally fatally flawed right from from the very start, and even a basic understanding of the law would have made that obvious to someone looking at it…

    But we didn’t need to wait till now to know this. There have been plenty of articles explaining the issues for some time.

    EG: https://gordondangerfield.com/2022/08/12/why-single-sex-female-services-are-not-for-biological-males/

    Short text extract from that article:

    (Spoiler: if having a GRC does turn a biological male into a “biological female” for the purposes of the Equality Act, then it is simply absurd for the Scottish Government to claim, as they do, that the Bill’s provisions allowing biological males to obtain a GRC by essentially self-identifying as female do not intrude into the reserved area of the Equality Act. Clearly, they do, and as such the Act, if passed, will be struck down by the courts as outwith the competence of the Scottish Parliament.)

  118. Alf Baird
    Ignored
    says:

    GRR is a heck of another needless diversion from the main goal, which further proves ‘the leader has no merit’. Its nae wunner we are nowhere near liberation with these ‘nationalist’ imposters. The SNP/Green eejits are more totalitarian than Tories, much as Jack’s remedial action demonstrates.

    Postcolonial theory warns us that a colonial regime which acts to delay or prevent independence and permits colonial capital to continue its plunder is condemned to become ‘an instrument of coercion’; it makes itself look busy by introducing ‘mystifying’ laws which only further oppress the people. As Albert Memmi wrote:

    “What is fascism, if not a regime of oppression for the benefit of a few. The entire administrative and political machinery of a colony has no other goal”

    Scots folk would probably be less oppressed with ‘direct rule’, instead of what we see, Lord Lugard’s ‘indirect rule’; i.e. without the Manichaeism of a compromised national party and bourgeoisie aye protecting their own interest and that of the colonizer, whilst the people are given to believe otherwise.

  119. Mac
    Ignored
    says:

    So we must assume Sturgeon was well advised of the fatal flaws at the time, the fundamental legal flaws in the proposed legislation and why it would be doomed to a veto from Westminster. She had to know…

    Which means that Sturgeon is more than willing (as she has already done it) to deliberately and knowingly draft highly contentious legislation in order to ‘draw-out’ a veto from Westminster and turn the subject of the legislation into a ‘constitutional crisis’.

    This is what Sturgeon should have been doing years ago regarding our right of self determination and now finally when she does deploy this obvious tactic, it is not about self determination, it is about her gender woo woo personal hobby horse shite.

    It was like when, with the steaming gift of BREXIT lying freshly laid in Nicola’s lap, she decided… ‘Naw, let’s not exploit this BREXIT thing, let’s instead stitch-up the face of 2014, and an icon of the independence movement, to keep him from making a come-back, yeah let’s do that instead…’.

    It is not just endless incredibly bad decision making, is it.

  120. SusanAHF
    Ignored
    says:

    Well said Alf Baird

  121. Geoff Anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    What Sturgeon has done with her obsession with GRR is give Westminster a wonderful golden opportunity to use the section 35 to block the Bill. It will now be an established and accepted tool in the Westminster arsenal.

    Even the Tories would have been reluctant to ever use that Nuclear option but Sturgeon opened the door with a Bill that Westminster knew did not and does not have the support of the Public.

    She will fail in any Court Case, and I suspect she will not even contest it despite the bluster.
    She has given Westminster a victory through incompetence and arrogance. A dormant piece of legislation has been brought back to life and the precedent established.

  122. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Failure is the only thing Sturgeon excels at.

    There’s a pattern with her – she’s repeatedly told her bills are shite but she ploughs on ahead regardless. OBAF, Named Person, Continuity bill, Rights of children, trans..Zzzzz!

    Didn’t the lawyers tell her she’d nothing on Salmond that would win the judicial case but eager to bandwagon the ‘me too’ movement she just ploughed on regardless of legal advice.

    Sturgeons manifesto

    Well she didn’t do any of that crap she mentioned she’d do about open respectful debate. It was closed to any dissenting voices. Cloth ears again.

    Also no mention of self-ID. She did a despicable thing by applying the indy vote to the Greens manifesto who DID mention it & then claim she had a mandate. Sly bastards & undemocratic.

    As for seeing the Tories as saviours. Nope. They’re not rewriting all thier laws on behalf of a few Greens. Until Scotland reclaims it’s equal rights under the Act of Union then Holyrood remains under their control & there can’t be two policies from the one political party.

    Sturgeon kicking up a fuss over self-ID should be warning to all her hangers on that she’s no interest in indy.

    Maybe she’ll hold a Trans Conference 6 months from now? 😀

  123. robertkknight
    Ignored
    says:

    Mac @ 10:54

    “It is not just endless incredibly bad decision making, is it”.

    To paraphrase Charles Krauthammer of Washington Post fame…

    Whenever you’re faced with an explanation of what’s going on at Holyrood, in the choice between incompetence and conspiracy, always choose incompetence.

  124. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Geoff

    She’s done this before with the Children’s Rights Bill.
    WM stepped in there too.

    She has form of pissing off Westminster on everything but independence.

  125. Maureen
    Ignored
    says:

    Jasper Veart, a 21-year-old trans man from Edinburgh, was more pessimistic and said the “writing was on the wall” in the reaction from Jack in the immediate passing of the bill before Christmas.

    “I’m disappointed overall but ultimately my rights haven’t changed one bit. It would have been nice,” he said.

    https://archive.ph/DqOSA

  126. Geri
    Ignored
    says:

    Well said, Alf.

    It has been mystifying.

  127. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye, indeed. The first cut is the deepest. The Rubicon has been crossed. Thanks Nicola, for giving the tories a perfect excuse. More Section 35s on the way, methinks. Watch this space.

  128. Red
    Ignored
    says:

    Maureen – Euan Carmichael, a 17-year-old LGBT activist from East Ayrshire, said

    What I wonder is: where are their parents?

  129. Ian McCubbin
    Ignored
    says:

    Totally agree with your conclusion, Stu.
    However who or what will remove her in the short term. It will take Alba rising until 2024 and 2026 to out seat her gravy train useless MPs and MSPs worst of whom take money and expenses with no effort put into Independence or helping their constituents.



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