The lockout
There was an interesting line in The National yesterday:
“The monthly Scottish Questions in Parliament looks set to be an odd affair.
In other words, business as usual.
Both the new Scottish Secretary, David Mundell, and his new shadow, Labour’s Ian Murray, were interviewed on today’s Good Morning Scotland. Mundell ruled out full fiscal autonomy, and indeed any suggestion that the SNP landslide had represented an expression by Scottish voters of a desire for more in the way of devolution than the feeble Smith Commission proposals.
Murray, meanwhile, stated his intent as being to oppose both the Tories and the SNP, refusing several times when asked to say that he’d work constructively with the MPs holding 95% of Scottish seats. (Indeed, despite reiterating his own opposition to the renewal of Trident, he wouldn’t say whether he’d actually vote against it.)
So Scotland knows where it stands. Two MPs from parties with just 3% of Scottish seats between them both plan to spend their time blocking the aims of a party with 95% of seats. Indeed, that party will barely even be allowed to be heard in the single brief Parliamentary session devoted to Scottish matters each month.
To onlookers, it seems that Scottish Questions will continue much the same as it did for the last five years – Labour setting up softball anti-SNP questions to give the Tories a chance to bash the Nats while both parties’ MPs sit on the government and opposition benches hooting and jeering in open contempt.
(Or simply drowning out the debate entirely with disrespectful chatter as they wait for the much more important business of Prime Minister’s Questions which follows it.)
The policies Scotland voted overwhelmingly for, in other words, will be sidelined and blocked by two parties who were both humiliated last Thursday with their lowest vote shares of all time, teaming up against the party which secured 120,000 more votes from Scots than any party has ever done at any election in history.
Are you feeling the love yet, readers?
Wish you put a bit of a warning that the “120,000 more votes…” link was a download link and not a link to another article or website. Not that I have any problem with the content of it, but people don’t like things downloading on their computers without full knowledge of that’s what they’re doing. It’s just good online etiquette, that’s all.
As you were…!
😉
“Wish you put a bit of a warning that the “120,000 more votes…” link was a download link and not a link to another article or website. Not that I have any problem with the content of it, but people don’t like things downloading on their computers without full knowledge of that’s what they’re doing. It’s just good online etiquette, that’s all.”
I haven’t found a way to link to that file as a page, sorry.
Just s question. Will we not get two questions now?
If that’s the case then the SNP contingent should visibly protest, all of them with hands over mouth during the session, or holding panda toys.
If the new influx of SNP MPs isn’t respected with changes made to Scottish Questions to reflect the democratic wishes of the Scottish people, it’s just another nail in the coffin of the union.
This is never going to work other than bringing indyref2 a step closer. Good.
And people down south wonder what’s wrong with us that we want away from Westminster rule…
I can see Scottish labour now “See? See what happens when you try to exercise a democratic right to choose who represents you? Thats why you needed to vote labour, because no one cares what you think not even us”
It isn’t going to work. Its the sort of thing that led to labour being on the end of an historic backhander to the jaw. If they try to pull this sort of nonsense after losing here, they will be on the receiving end of another in 2016.
There will also be a shift in perception. It won’t just be a Westminster party that gets reviled over this. It will be Westminster itself.
This confirms what we already knew. The union is dead. Someone should do the decent thing and get it buried.
That is a complete farce and has to change
Why is that? Where are the rules governing the conduct of such things at Westminster written down?
Living in Edinburgh South the most effective campaign argument against Murray was that his party supported the renewal of Trident. He has a great record as a constituency MP which was hard to argue against.
‘If you vote for Murray, you’re voting for more weapons of mass destruction’ was very effective – I know I used this dozens of times and it worked.
When Murray came out against Trident, I remember thinking ‘shit, that’s my main argument against him gone!’. His volte face on Trident was more effective than Neil Hay’s ‘twitter gate’ nonsense. Not supporting Trident, and being seen to oppose Labour policy, would have garnered him thousands of votes. Enough to win the seat by the few hundred majority he got.
Now he has been elected, he goes on the BBC and refuses to say he’ll vote against Trident renewal – less than one week after promising he would on doorsteps and at hustings.
If he doesn’t vote against Trident it will not be forgotten – but it’s too late, we have him for five more years.
Labour only got one MP, and he was elected on a lie – how very Labour is that?
Is this set up/problem entirely expected by NS? Is this really Plan B that is being put round in social media? Does this really leave our 56 powerless to effect any change? Or do the places on committees and the chairing of two committees mean some influence can be exerted after all?
It would be very very!!!!!!!foolish not to let the voices of SNP MPs not be heard seeing as it was the electorate that put them there they are just gona cause trouble which in a way I think they (the establishment) want.
We have more power than these silly routines suggest though. Remember, we run the Scottish Parliament too. The SNP could bring Scotland to a standstill if it was minded to.
I’m trying to imagine what would have happened if we’d got all 59.
Apparently David Cameron has announced that the Conservatives are the “real party for working people”.
Doublespeak is alive and well and living in Westminster.
The farce that Scottish questions is about to become only emphasizes the insanity of the HoC.
So,
They are trying for a business as usual approach eh? They have forgotton that the Scottish people are awake (with the exception of the ones I heard yesterday on Kaye Adams Programme) to politics now in a way you can only hope.
If they try to shut us down and out then it’s over for the union. I can’t see any way back from that.
If anything you would be better to watch the pandas. Or is it Polar bears now?.There would be more action than at Scottish questions. Lots of hot air and no substance. The committees are where the power lies. As we all know the SNP are now granted places. It will be interesting to discover which ones they will be invited to sit on.
56 SNP mp’s go into the chamber for the first Scottish session, if they are not allowed to ask more than one question, they just ask the question and walk out.
The next session only one SNP MP attends asks the one question and walks out, with a different MP each week.
And each week they must use their question to ask the speaker if it is fair and right for the majority of Scotlands MP’s to be restricked to one question during a scottish question time while a minority party in scotland is allowed six questions.
And just keep on repeating until common sense prevails.
Fuck this farce of a so called democracy. Let’s get the hell out of Westminster. Indyref 2 just got a lot closer.
Well the Tories are just going to continue with their anti SNP line, along with Labour with their SNP bad policy.
Their arrogance with S/Questions is astounding, and if this is their idea of democracy they are getting it badly wrong and resentment from Scots will rise, and rightly so.
They are ending the “Union” all by themselves.
Challenge for students of UK Politics (advanced): Explain the role played by the Scotland office to a foreign observer. Explain why an annual budget of £7m should be spent on this office. Penalty points will be incurred if you fail to keep a straight face. Severe penalty points will be incurred if the foreigner falls over while laughing.
That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country.
There could be a good case here for the entire SNP contingent to attend Scottish Questions but as soon as the session opens get up and leave the chamber, troop outside and hold their own, “Scottish Questions”, with the press and public asking the questions and Angus Robertson calling upon the relevant SNP Shadow Spokesperson to answer them.
Being open to press and public questions it could draw more media attention than the dynamic duo of the Secretary of State Against Scotland & his assistant Shadow Secretary of State Against Scotland.
Ian Murray cannot vote against Trident as it is Labour Party policy to renew these weapons.
Murray is now shadow Secretary of State for Scotland. He sits as a member of the shadow cabinet. He is bound by Collective Responsibility and his personal views become irrelevant. If he disagrees with the policy, he must resign.
link to researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk
Another strong nail in the coffin.The deliberate sabotaging of Scottish Democracy.
The right to another Referedum goes in the Manifesto.
Stupid political manoeuvring implemented by weak men always ends well, as shown in the GE in Scotland.
President Kennedy talked about the tragedy of Scotland. Although what he meant was never really explained, I somehow feel the Labour Party encapsulates the tragedy.
May well be the first rammy, and I’m more than sure Robertson, Salmond et al, will have foreseen this and are ready, because the last thing they will want, is the p“` being ripped.
Can you imagine Alex putting up with that?
Tactical voting occurred in Edinburgh South where almost all the lib dem voters and a lot of tory voters voted for Ian Murray to keep the cybernat Neil Hay out.
Has there ever been a period in Scottish Politics as ‘interesting’ as it is now? I certainly can’t see it being at all dull for the foreseeable future.
Let Westminster play their little games as it’s obvious the Scottish electorate is no longer in the mood to be trifled with! As Indigo says, some sort of visible protest at Scottish Questions could be very effective. All the SNP MPs could sit through the session wearing gags over their mouths for instance.
I disagree, Davy.
I do not know where are the rules which say it is run like that, so I do not know what force they have in law. But I am sure that the SNP know.
What I do think is that any opportunity to make points at Westminster must not be wasted on this kind of thing; a great deal of the point of a high number of MP’s is so that the case for an alternative programme can be made and heard. The SNP are well respected precisely because they have been positive throughout: they have a solid case and when people hear it they vote for it. I have little doubt there is also a constituency for a progressive politics outside of Scotland: but it is stifled.
I sincerely hope that the SNP do not change tack now, nor allow themselves to be distracted by the system they have to work within. No small party has ever got anywhere by focussing on that: we have seen that over and over again, with the Lib Dems and UKIP and on and on: and they do have a point. But the SNP eschewed that approach: they worked with the system as they found it and they won. I think that is instructive
I think it will only be a matter of time before it becomes clear to most people in Scotland that Westminster has no interest in Scotland, or the SNP who want to improve Scotland.
At that point we will have to decide if we happy being told to eating our Honey Nut loops every morning, or do we say stuff this, and vote for a full Scottish breakfast.
Is there a written Law that suppresses SNP asking more than 2 questions per month or is it merely a convention?
Besides, I think Alex will know there is more than one way to be heard. There are written questions, private member’s bills, FFIs and a 56 strong contingent that can make sure debates HAVE to be attended by many more Tory and Lab MPs – even for those shady deals that were previously done in the wee sma’ hours and on Fridays. The Wesminster Parliament is just about to become interesting
Time to dig up the patio – let’s all see where the bodies are buried – Starting with Chilcott. Jeers and boos are no fight against forensic analysis.
We can take the gradualist, slow road with more and more powers.
Or, if WM won’t play ball and make attempts to keep the Union alive, we can let resentment among No voting DevoMaxers build up and ‘be forced’ to call another referendum.
The ball is in Cameron’s court. Does he wish to retain the Union?
Applying a bit of democracy to Scottish Questions would be a good place for him to start.
@Brian Powell
Never heard that quote from Kennedy, Brian. Couldn’t find on an internet search. Can you direct me to a source or give more details, please?
Much obliged.
Ian Murray’s and David Muddle’s homework every 5 weeks.
Make up 6 questions to make SNP look bad,sounds good but!
Surely there is no better viewing than to watch the farce enacted on live tv when Murray reads out 6 questions, but wait no popcorn yet!
Unfortunately any MP with a UK constituency can ask one of the questions.
link to parliament.uk
Extract page 8:
Oral Questions
Oral questions to both the Secretaries of State for Scotland and Wales take place approximately every five weeks.
Until devolution the Scottish Office had an hour of questions, and the Welsh Office had thirty minutes. After devolution the time available for the Scotland Office (as it is now
known) was reduced to thirty minutes and then further to fifteen minutes.
Questions to both departments may be asked by Members with constituencies anywhere in the United Kingdom but they must now relate to the Secretary of State’s responsibilities following devolution
So let me get this straight
Labour in Scotland has one single solitary MP
Does this mean that this single MP will sit on his own opposite another single solitary MP and talk to each other?
Or will their parties have English MP’s turn out for Scottish Questions?
Where will the SNP MP’s sit while Scottish Questions is on?
Frankly if Westminster doesnt recognise the new reality and allow more questions from representatives of 95% of Scotland, then this should be highlighted at every single opportunity!
If Labour are as they claim a separate party in Scotland then clearly they lost. The shadow to the Secretary of State should come from the party that won in Scotland.
Two people talking to each other while the other 57 look on – presumably Alistair will, as Mudell’s former boss will also have an opinion on the matters.
That would make the proceedings a farce and bring parliament into disrepute.
I am still interested in seeing who leaked the Frenchgate memo. If it was Mundell rather than Carmichael then his stint as Secretary of State may be short.
In between moments of appearing to want to dive into the crowd and start swinging at SNP supporters, Ian Murray claimed he would represent all his constituents, regardless of how they voted. Now, I’m sadly aware that party concerns will trump that, but surely there are enough of us Edinburgh South residents on here to gently pressurise him to do the right thing at Scottish Questions?
We need to think about what issues we want raised and lobby him to do so. He might prove more useful to us than you think.
I thought Labour were going to try and build up their reputation in Scotland. Obviously a load off hot air.
Couldn’t Murray be removed if he is not going to represent the people who voted him in.?
A bit like being stuck down a manhole with your arms wedged by your sides, only way out is to wiggle a bit at a time.
Personally ,the only solution I can see is to stand in and win seats in the rest of the UK.
@ call me dave
Thanks for that. It does not appear to say that there is a rule about how many questions any party can ask: it specifically talks about an MP from anywhere in the UK being able to ask a question.
Again I ask: where does it say that the questions are allocated by party?
I think Les is right. Contempt, arrogance, mockery and ignorance are the hallmarks of the unionist. They will be the ones who bring the whole absurd rotten edifice that is Westminster down.
Ah well, it can only bring independence closer. From what non-unionist No-voters say on the doors (that is, folk who aren’t opposed to the idea of independence – or even quite like it – but just weren’t convinced to vote Yes last year), it seems pretty clear that while they don’t necessarily have the stomach for full independence, they do want a level of autonomy that is beyond anything Westminster would ever be willing to give us.
I don’t think we’re going to win independence through people suddenly deciding it’s their preferred option. We may also not win it through the “New Zealand route”, i.e. accumulating so many powers that, one day, we suddenly realise “oh, we’ve accidentally become independent”, even though that’s clearly the current SNP strategy. No, we’re going to win it through people finally getting tired of Westminster continually frustrating our efforts to get home rule within the UK.
This is a great example. Scotland just voted to have it’s voice heard in the UK, and the UK is saying “nah, nae happening.” Scotland will keep pushing, voting more and more for the SNP and the likes, and the UK will keep resisting. Eventually, that 15 – 25% of non-unionist No-voters will just give up on the UK, and it’ll be the UK’s own fault. What a shame, eh?
Last Thursday was the final attempt of the Scottish people to get more powers (and respect) for Scotland. It looks as if it has failed. There is only one option left, and the majority of Scots will very soon realise this.
@haud on the noo says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:20 am:
I’m trying to imagine what would have happened if we’d got all 59.”
There is nothing to stop Cameron from bringing in a person from the Lords as a Minister to head a Ministry. This has been done before. Nor is there anything to stop him appointing an English, Welsh or N.I. member as SOS.
It won’t look good but then neither does appointing David Mundell to the post. Mundell, after all has said in the past that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”. So he is on public record as claiming Scotland no longer exists.
Only an arrogant, two faced, ignorant numptie like Cameron could appoint as the Secretary of State for Scotland a person who believes Scotland doesn’t exist and only a brain dead, two faced bloody idiot like Mundell would consider accepting the post.
Brainless posh boy Donkey’s leading brain dead, arrogant asses!
Could only happen in a totally failed place like Westminster.
.
Jacqueline McDowell says:
12 May, 2015 at 9:04 am
I believe we are entitled to two questions at PMQ’s as the third party. At Scottish Questions the Main opposition (Labour) have appointed Ian Murray who will ask all six questions to Mundell.
I wonder how long that will last but that is the “Rule”
The Government benches will have zero Scottish MP’s behind Mundell.
This is Plan B and it will work very effectively. Independence is much closer today.
@ Clootie
Where is that rule? can you link please
Scottish democracy stifled yet again by the UK establishment? Who would have thunk it?
If the Unionist parties do intend to continue with this arrangement, then they will find themselves with even less influence in the Scottish parliament next year.
Anyone know what the rate of “wastage” for mps usually is… like how many by elections there may be in a Parliament term?
(Apologies if he use of quotation marks may have caused offense to the sensitive)
This is a farce. How can you have SQ without allowing Scottish MPs to ask the questions. What does a single Edinburgh MP know about problems in the constituancies in the highlands, or Aberdeen or even Fife. Especially when said MP has already said he will fight against the SNP in WM.
This will get interesting, only a pity it’s not weekly.
So much for Nicola’s election mantra to make Scotland’s voice heard. It’s been blown out of the water immediately.
Its pretty clear why their vote Ian Murray campaign was so dirty and desperate. 2 UKOK unionists are now in charge of Scotland. Well at least its one from each Westminster side.
Here in England, SNP Westminster is airbrushed away by their media already, with all and any BBC coverage of the 56 MP’s simply disappeared by midnight. BBC go massive on Nigel Farage return though but he’s a fine English chap.
@Yoda fet tae guck,fan dan you are!
That is nonsense,Joemcg. With the best will in the world (and they do have that) the MSM cannot prevent at least slightly greater coverage of the alternative policies proposed by the SNP than we have seen before. Influence is often more important than power, and a platform is essential to influence. Already the internet has shown that the MSM monopoly of all platforms is gone, and we have seen the results in Scotland
It will get increase support for Independence. Democratic changes also support Independence. Westminster is just signing it’s own death warrant. The arrogance and ignorance of Westminster Unionists MP’s is appalling. A disgraceful anti democratic behaviour.
Labour just don’t get it. They have an opportunity here to start to rebuild a little respect from the Scottish electorate. They could say “We respect the views of the Scottish people and for that reason, we will forego our right to ask six questions and will give that right to the SNP.” Even if the parliamentary procedures prevented it, if they genuinely tried to make it happen, they would get the credit.
The main reason for Labour’s demise in Scotland is their evident contempt for the Scottish people. Until they start to address that, they will stay where they are – at the bottom of the political heap.
A question I posed to several people Would Mr Hay ( edinburgh south)contemplate a Legal challenge given the Interferance of the Media & Labour actavists. Same would apply to Dumfries & Galloway candidate with Ruthie,s intervention & lies ???.
I would contribute to both legal funds.
I think John Redwoods demeanour was very telling on panorama last night. A dyed in the wool tory of the most obnoxious sort he is nevertheless not a fool.
Think even he scents a change in the air, this was the most subdued I have ever seen him. Couple this with our former BFF Dan Snow’s unconcealed rage.
I am convinced that deep down the whole country knows indy is ultimately inevitable but they are not going to go quietly. The trinity of Mundell, Davidson and Carmichael as the unionist reps for Scotland are very much second division.
I think we have to settle into a patient watch of the long game here. Tactics like Murray possibly claiming the full questions on Scottish matters are to be expected.
If labour had any honour or the slightest willingness to cooperate with other parties they would yield on this but the SNP may have to fight to overcome this one. I think they will win this. Hope the Scottish electorate are kept fully informed on the likes of this.
Intersting to note that according to bbc yesterday they had already caused trouble by demanding office space. This is nonsense. They are entitled to this and other priveleges known as the usual channels by long established custom. Still, they must probably fight for these.
Representation on committees which should be a right may be have to fought for. Interestingly, this article is very revealing
link to thisismoney.co.uk
in the hands of the SNP this could be very powerful indeed.
Salmonds unrivalled knowledge of procedure and the inner workings will yeild fruit in time but things will not happen quickly because of Westminsters institutional loathing of anything new but I have confidence the SNP have long planned for exactly this kind of outcome and have a strategy. I think the SNP always knew labour were unelectable in England and are well prepared for this tory government.
I lived in the south east for 21 years and like rev stu never believed England would elect labour. The tories are the natural party of government down there for the big affluent poulation dense areas and always will be. I think labour are if not permanently finished in England, they will only ever govern occasionally and at that, as a moderate right of centre husk.
Tasmina by the way, was very impressive. Could be a star in the making. Unruffled, confident, articulate, refuseded to be talked over.
I can see the LabServatives speaking in terms of proportional representation when it suits them, but they always backed first past the post.
@John H
You da man.
Totally agree. It’s coming and I don’t even think it will be close next time.
They will have to do some serious accommodating to avoid it.
Demographic changes will bring Independence, by all accounts ie the numbers needed. These actions by Westminster will only bring it closer.
A Mundell and Murray ‘SNP bad’ tag team playing asinine games and mocking the Scots who voted for the SNP in a pointless ritual openly derided by English MPs?
What’s not to like?
Ever since devolution the role of secretary of state for Scotland has been absurd. Neither Westminster’s man in Scotland nor Scotland’s man in Westminster. The post has transformed into Minister for Criticising/Smearing the SNP.
I have faith in the old hands of SNP MPs like Angus Robertson, Alex Salmond and Angus Macneil schooling the talented group of new MPs. I have absolute faith in them exposing this ridiculous, farcical system. Let the games begin.
Watching that clip, I kept hearing the song “Another one bites the dust”.
Over a century ago they tried ignoring the Irish, I wonder how that turned out?
Robert Peffers,
Nice one!
The Scottish eoectorate will see how once again the Unionist Parties lies, have badly let Scotland down. Another wipe out.
Well Fiona I hope so, watching what has occurred in the past three years I’m not very confident. After the euphoria of achieving the landslide it looks like we have taken one step forward and two steps back.
Part of me wants a quiet organised exit out of the union, the other part(the wee angry bit) wants to exact some revenge for the way we have been treated. A screwed up Westminster would be good.!
[…] There was an interesting line in The National yesterday:“The monthly Scottish Questions in Parliament looks set to be an odd affair.Under the current system the Secretary of State for Scotland will answer six questions from the Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland, while 56 SNP MPs watch on from the back benches and are allowed to ask one question.”In other words, business as usual. […]
I have to thank you Stu. Another great article. You and your team are educating Scots all on your own!
I was worried, on Friday, that you might feel like having a break from Wings, but I hate to put pressure on you and say we need you even more!
Nothing changes in the media and we need you to keep us going.
I thought I might feel like a rest from all the politics after such a great result on Friday but I’m even more angry about the status of Scotland.
Thank you again for your tremendous contribution!
A tag team of Mundell and Murray playing asinine ‘SNP bad’ games during a pointless ritual derided by English MPs?
From an independence perspective, what’s not to like?
Scott-“Murray, in between moments of appearing to want to dive in and start swinging at SNP supporters” lol! Gave me a belly laugh, cheers! He did actually!
Perhaps we shouldn’t get too ahead of ourselves. Parliament hasn’t opened yet. A bigger menace than conventions and procedures which disadvantage out country is the totally biased state broadcaster which will do its best to misrepresent everything.
Wait to see how things pan out. Cameron is not cmpletely stupid. And they will have someone there who studied Parnell – not just Eck 🙂
John H @ 09.52
States the issue facing the SNP and the problem facing the unionists.
Within the current constraints the SNP and Scots in general have not only won, but exceeded wildest dreams of any Democratic Party, and marginalised people anywhere.
I”d have thought Tories more cunning and duplicitous than the status quo, but john major proved otherwise in 1992.
Will Ian Murray end up looking like Ian Pasley? labour already resemble either of the two Ulster unionist parties – no surrender, eh Ian? Party and parliament before country.
Aside from gestures, boycotting or sitting in silence, the SNP must ask questions Scots want answered and ensure the answers and contempt displayed by unionism is paced in front of Scots week in week out.
@farrochie
If Trident was so important to Murray, he should have refused the shadow cabinet post and would therefore not have been bound by collective responsibility. Whoever else could taken the post is Labour’s problem.
Us keyboard warriors can get all flustered and pissed off and stamp our feet…..we are ultimately powerless
We have done all we can in sending the 56 down there to bat our corner.
In Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond we have experienced and able parliamentarians who will take no shit and where it is experienced it will be exposed and maximum leverage generated.
Yes it will be a david v Goliath type of struggle but ultimately every barrier they put in our way will further weaken the union.
[…] The lockout […]
To us – the voters, Westminster sometimes appears to be all about what happens inside the Chamber. It isn’t, as much, perhaps more work, is done in the committee rooms and so-forth.
Prime Minister’s Questions takes up approximately half an hour per week; it is “showbiz” and has little to do with the real work of the House.
Yes, turn-up, put your two questions, but, don’t expect too-much to come of these. Similarly, Scottish Questions is a bit of a side-show.
I see a previous post mentions that questions to the SoSfS should be about matters which come under his remit. With so-many Scottish matters now devolved to Holyrood, this might be a chance to demonstrate how little influence on real life in Scotland he has.
Mundell isn’t the sharpest tool in the box – I am sure the SNP bloc can run rings round him every time.
But, since Scottish Questions precedes PMQs, there will be more than a few Red and Blue Tories in there early, prepared to make mischief against the SNP.
If he is re-elected Speaker, Mr Belcrow (or if he isn’t, his successor) is someone the SNP must cultivate. Get the Speaker to properly discharge his duties to the House, by allowing ALL shades of political opinion to be heard, and the SNP can hurt the two main parties.
Upset him, that job gets a bit harder.
Angus Robertson, Stuart Hosie and Wee Eck need to be Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby and Willie Shankley, rather than George Burley, Craig Levein and Berti Vogts when it comes to managing our side in London.
By-elections depend on MP’s dying, getting ill, defrauding, becoming bankrupt or a criminal (with a sentence) conviction. They can be dismissed from their Party. Many of them should be in jail but use the Official Secrets Act conceal their crimes and keep them secret. There is a code of practice for MP’s and a Ministerial Code, which they break with impunity. Thatcher broke the Ministerial Code, and kept the evidence secret under the 30 year Official Secrets Act. The McCrone Report was kept secret for political advantage. MP’s can vote against their Party’s policy on principle. (not a wise career move)
Criminal convictions mean they have to resign.
Whoops! Posted too-quickly.
A wee bit of Ally MacLeod’s swagger, if not his tactical nous, might help too.
There is a definite underplaying of what happened last Thursday in the UK media. Watching the BBC yesterday they only mentioned the 56 arriving at Westminster after Tory cabinet reshuffle, Labour’s problems, Farage and EU referendum.
There seemed to be an air of ‘sure there’s 56 of them but there’s also a Tory majority, so what can they do’. One BBC reporter suggested that the SNP being an effective opposition at Westminster would actually strengthen the Union, like that on its own would be enough for Scots, they really don’t know or are trying to avert what’s coming.
Should “Scottish Labour” decide to be a party independent of UK Labour where would that leave Mr Murray- as a UK Labour MP?
Frenchgate? Yes we need clarification of Who Dunnit. Mundell, Carmichael, or both have a case to answer.
Didn’t Carmichael state some time back that he was retiring at the next election – of last Thursday,or have I not been paying sufficient attention?
@yoda,
People voted against labour and for the SNP for hope and a future. The Ian murray result was a 1 in 59 chance.
( aided and abetted by the msm and a spurious smear campaign) good luck next time!
I think Holyrood is starting to look bare of Labour MSP’s already.
I am not sure we can lose here. The two stooges talking while 56 SNP MPs watch will make for surreal TV. It will look like a lock out and play to the argument that we need independence.
Mudell’s dismissive attitude to Scotland is on record and that is a gift too. Murray is almost as permanently angry as Murphy and that should be entertaining too. I can imagine Mundell doing his head in as much as ours.
We live in interesting times.
If they lock us out of third party status we should just go straight to another referendum 😉
The other annoying bit spouted by Fluffy this morning (and Ive heard it from other Tory’s) is that Scotland will be the ‘most devolved government in the world’
I beg to differ, even with all of the Smith Commission proposals being enacted and any other window dressing items that the unionists ‘deem’ acceptable. Scotland will absolutely NOT be the most devolved government in the world.
I would say that Canadian provinces have more power, one being that the provincial governments keep all tax revenue raised from their own natural resources, including oil and gas!
Perhaps Stuart, who has a gift for doing such things (can I have my fiver now Stu?), could put together a graphic illustration comparing what Scotland has, what Scotland is being offered and what Scotland actually needs in comparison to , for example the province of Labrador?
This might bring it home that we are being fed crap from Fluffy
Bill Hume at 9.27
That’ll be the narrative in the “Scottish” Sun. It’s started on page two this morning
A Home Rule Bill for Ireland was going through. The 1WW interrupted proceedings. That brought the troubles. Westminster actions did cause it.
This is different situation a Home Rule Bill for Scotland is not on the statute book yet.
Scotland is not Ireland. it is a different situation. In Ireland at that time there was not Universal Suffrage. People in Scotland are in a stronger position for going through the Ballot Box. They have the vote.
Most of Westminster work is done in Committee. Nicola & Co will keep us informed. Question Time is just an embarrassing farce, anyway. Not too important. Comedy Gold.
That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country
Yoda, Look again. You will see that the SNP won 56 seats in every part of Scotland. Inner Cities, rural suburbs, Farmland, Highlands and Islands. In the three seats they did not win the came a very close second. There is not a square inch of Scotland where the SNP are not a force.
The SNP are our country 🙂
….or did you mean England? That would be silly, I don’t live there and the SNP do not stand in that country.
Well well, David Mundell and Ian Murray now have to earn their pay. The spotlight is on and they will be slaughtered. They just aren’t up to the job. Seriously, they aren’t and this will become painfully apparent in due course. The only uncertainty is which of these useless buffoons is going to drop a serious clanger first?
I need to order some more popcorn.
An alternative Scottish Questions sounds is an excellent idea, highlighting the farcical democratic deficit of two politicians from defeated parties ‘debating’.
Well, I can’t say I’m the least bit surprised at this.But it just shows how these thick unionists think they can carry on as before. That’s fine though,we are all her watching and listening. You obviously learned nothing from your wipeout, so, you will get another one next May at Holyrood.
I have every confidence in our Westminster team. Angus Roberston,Stewart Hosie, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil and the wily old fox himself. These guys know how the system works and they’re not daft. We need to let things settle and see how it pans out.
Two thing that stand out for me now. 1 independence is on the way, the union is dead. 2 The Labour party in Scotland is finished, they are too arrogant and indeed too stupid too understand what we have told them. Tough. Bye bye, we won’t miss you at all.
@fraise says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:30 am:
.
“If anything you would be better to watch the pandas. Or is it Polar bears now? There would be more action than at Scottish questions. Lots of hot air and no substance.”
Aye! Fraise, it’s eating all those bamboo shoots that causes all the hot air and no substance.
I’ll get my coat.
BTW Stuart should you not take a well earned rest now the election is over? Miliband has gone to Ibiza apparently, so don’t go there.
England has just woken up to the fact that there are around 100 liberal peers in the lords that they can’t get rid of and who can all make life very difficult for the torys.
I could not find on the parliamentuk website any info regarding the rules and procedures for Scottish Question Time.
So I emailed them asking if they could provide me with a link to the relevant sources.
I’ll let you know what comes back – if anything.
But I am already looking forward to this cross between Twin Peaks and Monty Python.
Thanks Andy.
I’ve just been listening to Christine Hamilton on “The Wright Stuff” putting forward her reasons for Britain leaving the EU. Every argument she comes up with could easily be applied to Scotland. We (Britain) are a sovereign state. We don’t need mummy to look after us. There’s a big world out there, etc. They just don’t get it where Scotland is concerned do they?
According to Mundell, the Scot’s overwhelmingly voted for the SNP, but for stronger Scottish representation at WM, not on an Indy Ref#2 agenda.
If we are honest, he perhaps may have a point considering as NS kept stating that (and I para-phrase) “this election is for a stronger voice for Scotland at a UK level, not about independence from the UK. We the SNP, seek to be inclusive within the UK at this election”.
I’m sure, we know, we secured a lot of disenchanted ‘No’ Labour voters through this approach.
Now given the hurdles that our ‘56’ are going to face with the existing conventions of WM, not least a system designed around a dominating UK level two-party system, it will be just a matter of watching and waiting as the frustration levels build both within the SNP WM contingent, but more important, within the engaged and observing Scottish voter.
This latter point will in turn, I’m sure, start to sway a lot of the insecure ‘No’ voters (those who want a strong SNP WM presence, but haven’t been convinced about independence) to start and reflect more questioningly but positively towards the independence viewpoint.
The time will eventually arrive when there are far too many people who are so-far unconvinced, those who have struggled to doubt the protection of UK inclusivity, those people will start to voice their new conviction that Scotland cannot remain as a part of the now exposed arrogant and broken WM / UK system.
Any isolation of the majority Scottish voice at WM will be one of the most destructive Unionist agendas and will do more for our cause than anything we could manage.
As frustrating as it is for all of us, we must play the game of ‘slowly slowly catchy monkey’. Take the lead for NS & AS, they know what is required.
In consideration of the above, I hope very much that the SNP put in bold large font in their Holyrood 2016 manifesto that Indy Ref#2 will be sought.
And if the SNP are indeed returned in the majority, then after all that has been discussed, argued, debated, twisted and obfuscated before, during and after Indy Ref#1, this will be their mandate to take us forward again and this time, win our freedom from the UK shackles.
Crowdfunding time again folks.
£20k should be enough. That’ll keep Murphy in post and away from the benefit office, at least until next May’s election.
Wings Envoy in Eastwood. Let’s just pay him…
The good news since last Thursday is that Murphy remains as branch office leader of Labour in Scotland, and Ian Murray has said he is against the formation of an independent Labour Party in Scotland. This is good because SLAB are never really going to recover without becoming more than just a branch office. The Scottish Tories never changed radically after their 1997 rout, and were only saved by PR in Holyrood.
Early indications are that SLAB have learned absolutely nothing over the last decade, and we can expect the same old SNP bad to dominate their rhetoric very shortly, and to resume at full blast.
Y’know, there are ways and means we can contribute to this. I don’t believe the Scottish Office is any way a constructive entity towards Scotland – it’s our leash, if anything. Our previous Secretary of State, Alastair Carmichael, simply towed his party and the Tory line (Something nearly indistinguishable, to be perfectly honest.)
It’s an insult to democracy that the sole Conservative seat Scotland voted is now representing us. The Scottish Office should not have more weight when there are 56 SNP seats that actually represent Scotland – we are not a Tory country.
The unacceptable situation of the past re: Scottish Questions was only possible because the Labour Party MPs were complicit in allowing it. It suited them.
I expect the SNP to refuse to play the Westminster game, and this is one aspect of it which will require their immediate attention, and action. With their overwhelming mandate fresh in the minds of voters, it’s a case of striking while the iron is hot.
At the very first Scot Questions there must be a visible rejection of this cosy Con/Lab pact. Whether that extends to walking out en masse or other similar disruption, will be a matter for Angus Roberston – but the SNP must ACT on behalf of those who have placed their trust in them and ensure that Scotland’s voice is indeed heard.
I’d council against playing silly buggers too soon. As has been stated before, let them get in the door and see how things pan out. I had a robust debate with an English friend who is absolutely convinced the SNP are going down there with a grievance and to “bugger things up”, ie knacker the “English” economy. Even pointing out the arithmetic and that it would be of no tactical advantage to demonstrate an inability to work in government or being otherwise unprofessional didn’t seem to convince him.
We need to make sure we don’t give the unionists any ammunition to use next year so we will need to play along with the game just now.
Anyway Members for any constituency can ask questions and this is our way in. As is sweet talking the Speaker. Also with the additional exposure that they should get as the third party they can stand up against the more egregious Tory policies. Assuming of course that the media reports this, this should enhance our position.
Yeah, they can go back to business as usual. I wouldn’t advise it, but its their choice as is just how long the union continues in this fashion.
We said our piece last week, let’s here their answer and whatever it is they can be absolutely sure that the Scottish electorate is watching and listening.
It’s time to run the Tories out of Scotland. No MPs, no MSPs, no MEPs, no councilors, no Scottish Tories.
They are Enemy No.1
The SNP Group will get two questions at UK Westminster Question Time, every week. There are certain rules and regulations, courtesies, but under Parliamentary Privilege MP’s can say what they like.
Interesting times.
michael c @10.11 am, great post, and reflects my thoughts.
Have faith, peeps, remember Alex resigned last year, because it was a strategic move, although many crowed it was because he was defeated – nothing of the sort. Is this a man who acted defeated even a week later?
He can do more behind the Chair, and even in my experience of office politics, that is always a good place to play your cards from. In all the group pics, Alex has been careful to stand at the back, he knows how to play this game.
I was thinking last night how engaged we are now with those that went down. My local MP now has his FB page up, and a pic was tweeted of him reading the rulebook (he’s a solicitor)
I was on a page and commented whatever happens Chris Law must not cut off his pony tail, as some old fogey had commented on it.
The page Admin came on and said, knowing Chris, the pony will be staying. 🙂
@Yoda says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:36 am:
“That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country.”
Define what you mean by, “Our Country”, Yoda? I wasn’t aware you and I shared the same country? It is regrettable enough we may share a KINGDOM. without actually also sharing a country.
Seems you may be as poorly educated as the posh boys in the United KINGDOM Parliament who are really so ignorant of the British Archipelago’s geography, history and culture.
I expect it stems from their un-natural family life that sees them enter the English Public School system while still in their formative years as their also emotionally stunted parents slope shoulders by bringing up their own progeny at arms length. Thus encouraging the homosexuality, sexually abusive and stunted emotional wellbeing so evident among certain sections of both legislative houses of Westminster.
Presumably this Murray will be taking instructions from Murphy so this Westminster panto gets curiouser & curiouser and as Murphy always insists on consulting his constituents when the questioning gets tough, he can’t use that excuse any longer as he hasn’t got any. 🙂
How can any private individual, elected by nobody, claim to exert influence in either Holyrood or Westminster.
Angus Roberston,Stewart Hosie, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil and the wily old fox himself.
What a team – no wonder the enemies of Scotland are bricking it.
(and quite a few of the “rookies” are no pushovers, either!)
@Yoda says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:38 am:
“Tactical voting occurred in Edinburgh South …”
Sheeesh!
The EU Union and the UK Union are completely different. Don’t confuse them. Different rights, contribution, responsibilities, aims, economic outcomes. Totally different. The only similarity is the word Union. Do some research. The EU benefits Scotland(UK) The UK Union does not.
We shall soon be getting the Ballot for Private Members’ Bills and I hope that one or more of the 56 are successful.
Can I suggest the following in no particular order of merit as subjects for said Bills:-
Establish in law the permanence of the Holyrood Parliament with no right for WM to abolish it or establish Direct Rule.
16 & 17 year olds to have the vote in ALL future elections.
Establish in law the right of Holyrood to call referenda without having to get the permission of WM.
Devolution of Broadcasting.
Any further suggestions welcome.
Re: Robert Peffers “Thus encouraging the homosexuality”
I agree with much that you say in your post BUT being Gay is not dysfunctional and should not be included in your list of the sad damage wrought on Private School boarding pupils, and how it ultimately impacts on their inability to run any country with empathy and compassion.
gus1940 says:
12 May, 2015 at 11:46 am
Any further suggestions welcome.
A whole suite of anti-austerity proposals
End prescription charges in rUK
End student fees
No renewal of Trident etc
HST all the way to Scotland
No chance of success, but show them up by making them vote against these. Boy will they hate us!
I think we have to be careful and pick and choose the fights we have carefully.
With the elections coming for Holyrood and then the EU referendum which would be held just one year later the SNP MP’s have to keep our powder dry to be sure to allow them to dig the whole that they seem to want to dig for themselves whilst they stand at the top and fill them in with large sized SNP shovels!
It’s going to be political overload for some. Many may have lost interest and THAT is why sites such as this are important not to lose any focus on the puplic at large.
Fight the war .. not the battle!
Murphy’s political career is over, except an Independent. The irony. Wonder how that would go? Took the poison chalice and has been throw to the wolves. A good example to the rest of the lying troughers. He should do something useful. Take up voluntary work in a food bank. If they would have him. Likely not. Made too many enemies on the way. Many will be glad to see the back of the vacant coupon.
Presumably now that Mundell has his feet under the table, he’s about to open the MemoGate file, and tell all.
C’mon fluffy what did that LibDumb get up to behind your back?
Oh, you were part of it too…
On topic – kinda. Really a bit of shameless but irresistible schadenfreude, Wullie Bain being locked out of Westminster from 46.28
link to bbc.co.uk
Why isn’t Miliband taking up his duties in Westminster, for which he receives remuneration of public money. This is not holiday time and Westminster is not in (generous) recess. Another reward for failure?
I do agree that there is a need to counter this “most developed parliament” pish that Cameron et al love to trot out. He never gives any further examples of WHY this is so, it is just a soundbite.
Amazing to think the SNP are now taking over the third-party offices which must have been held by the Lib Dems for donkey’s years, before that the Labour Party, I presume. When a regional party is part of the big troika, you know something is seriously stirring and this is a good example of any why indy is simply a question of time.
As Labour plans to move to the right, I see big chances for the SNP as being the only effective opposition to austerity. I can see us winning a lot of love among the North English cities, who are left with no one to speak for them, and progressives in general (sorry, I do not see the Greens being able to fill the gap yet).
Haven’t read most of the comments here yet, but just to say that I do wonder how much sympathy we will get from disenfranchised English voters, because I am seeing quite a bit of stuff online from change.org, 38degrees and now a care2 petition demanding PR, bit late but also 38degrees putting out figures which make it look very unfair to them that the SNP have so many seats in WM.
They will not of course think on how unfair the whole system has been to Scotland for 300 years, as well as being told that we are subsidy junkies. I think those petitioning should be supporting the SNP to have their voice as it’s their only chance for democracy at the moment.
I fear their energy on PR etc is futile, misdirected and counter productive however, I have said as much to these organisations, it’s all we can do.
Cameras allowed in to Camerons first meeting of the Cabinet
An exercise in PR which if you haven’t seen it was the most breakfast spewingly sickening piece of Ralph toileting yet
Not Recommended viewing
On another more cheerily comic note I hear there’s a new Petition under way in the North of England to join Scotland when we become Independent
It’s called “Scotland take us with you” or something similar
They want to redraw the border a good deal further down south to take them in
Maybe some of you guys who do the twittery stuff can find it
Looking ahead, the next UK election is probably 5 years away, but it is vital that these 56 MPs build up strong local reputations in their communities, and avoid any scandals. A chance to hold the balance of power in the future is the real opportunity that was unfortunately missed this time because of Labours poor performance in England.
It would be good advertising to see prominent constituency offices rented in relatively high traffic streets, not somewhere off the beaten track.
O/t
Another member if Labour’s branch office shadow cabinet has resigned. Rowley(?) – think that is the name.
Also to put things in perspective’ another large earthquake in Nepal, 7.3 on Richter scale.
Given the enormous workloads now upon them..can we expect Mundell and Murray to ‘pair’ and save wasting time on silly things like actually listening to arguments and voting in the house.
OT..one thing thats been irking me since Murphy exit…was the “Jim drinks from Irn Bru can” photo a fit up job..any way of finding out if Barrs helping his campaign/career?
In the Herald (can’t archive it sorry not working)
Murphy suffers another blow as Rowley quits Scottish Labour’s shadow cabinet
Jim Murphy has suffered another blow after Alex Rowley stepped down as Scottish Labour’s local government spokesman at Holyrood.
—————————————————————-
I pointed out that Rowley was shaking his head at the back during last FMQ’s before the election as Keiza cereal Brek machined gunned her may through her script. He must be appalled at the company he is in.
PS:
How ironic that we may see & hear the former SoS for Scotland get to throw a wee keepy to the new SoS for scotland to gleefully hit out of the park. 🙂
————————————————————–
Help spelling for Keepy ;kepie ( lob ball) cannie spell it! 🙁
My mother (god bless her tartan socks) drove the Scots out of me when I was younger, I never realised…not too late though.
According to Wikipedia Mundel has a majority of 798 votes, Carmichael 817 votes and Murray 316 votes. a total of 1,931.
“They make a desert and call it peace.”
six votes to one , yup, sounds about right! and stand bye for the donkey serenade that awaits our new MPs when they make their maiden speeches. Its a gift to the home rule campaign.
Sorry for going O/T folks but following the recent resignation of Neil Findlay from the Shadow cabinet on Saturday guess what … we have another resignation. 🙂
link to twitter.com
Boy this Jim Murphy fella certainly knows how to keep a tight reign on his shadow cabinet doesn’t he? 😀
I love the panda toy protest. Maybe they should get three panda toys each and stick the last liberal, tory and labour MP’s faces on them.
The SNP group could easily ask one question and then when that person gives an answer to the reply be interrupted by the other 58 by giving way to add comment and then taking up all the time allotted to Scottish Questions. I think the rules will change.
Elected following a self contrived state of terror and fear and now in a position where he cannot be removed.
Seldom seen but has only One known representative.
Jim Murphy is Palpatine of The Sith
The Smith Commission will get implemented. After that who knows what is going to happen. The Smith Commission is basically the Calman Commission Part 2, and like Calman has now been completely overtaken by events (namely the general election results). Everyone knows this and if the UK government and Scottish unionists say no more powers after Smith is implemented, then they really are up shit creek. Not least because there is a very good chance that the Smith Commission recommendations are going to create ‘gearing’ problems for the budget at Holyrood.
Cant we just boycott it and leave them to talk to each other ,and laugh publicly at the farce of it ?
or we could turn up in costume, kilts and c u jimmy wigs and shout hoots mon all the way through it occasionally bursting into a highland fling,well if they want to make it a big joke lets show them real Scottish humour and take the total piss out their parliament and see how far we can go before they fling us out.
Grow up westminster no wonder we want out you lot are hopeless,we have a lame duck PM that will not last the full term as he already said he will not stand for a 3rd term ,Boris is brought in as MP and handed the sacred Tory dagger ,EU referendum will be the catalyst ,Boris PM
Labour are running about with their heads up their backsides doing their usual talking to themselves and look like moving back into blairite new labour not realizing it was this that got them gubbed in the first place ,ugly leadership contest lots of knifes to be stuck in each others backs,no obvious leader talent.
Indyref2 please Nicola we have got to get away from these loonies.
Man in jar- not true. Unfortunately 6 question boy won by almost 3,000.
If both Panda parties’ single MP/SoS are as useless as they appear, then an overlord with no legitimacy in Scotland dictating to us every 6 weeks can only be a good thing. Scotland is awake and aware and not in the mood to be tellt any longer.
If these guys are that inept, what happens if they mess up to the extent they have to be replaced?
@Lesley-Anne
Good find!
PS: Cochrane!
The SNP will shove all of those powers into its bag marked ‘Swag’ and then say: “ Aye, but whit aboot …”.
link to archive.is
On Bbc Radio Scotland at 8.38am heard Hayley Millar say slightly odd to have The Secretary of State For Scotland facing off with The Labour shadow S.o S. F Scotland whilst the SNP are on the sidelines” at the time I couldn’t believe my ears………. Hope it stays this way ….will highlight The Democratic Defecit for Scotland at Westmonster
@galamcennalath says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:43 am:
“The ball is in Cameron’s court. Does he wish to retain the Union?”
Actually the ball is not really in Cameron’s court as this is quite a different ball game. It’s not Tennis but could be football. So the ball may be at Cameron’s feet but he has not, (YET), been tackled.
There are many ways to hit Cameron’s slim majority and he must continually guard against a vote of no confidence or conversely votes of confidence. This is going to be a real double-edged sword for it could also be a Labour Party weakness.
As labour are the official opposition, to be effective, they must be seen to oppose the Government. As they are fewer in numbers they would, on their own, fail in all opposition and give the Tories a free run. This is where both Labour & Tory become vulnerable to the SNP’s actions.
Labour dare not oppose for the sole reason of opposing, (The Wee Willie Bain Principle), That is opposing just for the sake of it, knowing they will not defeat their opponent. This is where the SNP could take control and make the result what the SNP want.
Now remember Nicola has said she will do what is best for Scotland but also what is best for the UK but also warned that the former SNP policy of NOT voting on England Only Matters depends upon how Scottish Matters are being handled. She can bargain with both Labour and Tory every time Labour oppose the Government.
Then we have such things as the Queen’s speech that Cameron needs to continue in office. If Labour vote against it that Nicola again can decide if we get a Labour or Tory Government AFTER a new election.
If Labour chicken out of opposing Tory bills then the public sees Labour as a waste of time so they must be an effective opposition or suffer in England as they have in Scotland.
Not to forget that the SNP can stage a vote of no Confidence at any time and if Labour do not vote with them Labour again are seen as weal and ineffectual.
So in the end it doesn’t matter who is in power if you hold the balance and Dave’s first action is to cut the benefits ceiling. Will Labour oppose? Sajid Javid says there will be, “Significant Changes”, in strike laws. The Unions oppose it – will Labour?
That’s the Establishment tightrope that both Government and opposition start walking today. One or both could fall off for neither has a safety net.
Meanwhile the BBC are under attack by the Government and Andy Coulson’s Scottish Trial is about to begin.
We live in interesting times.
This is no game guys!
This is about how much credence is given by the so-called Westminster elite to the democratically elected MPs from a solely Scottish party who’s raison d’être is the Independence and prosperity of our great country and the wellbeing of it’s citizens.
This is the litmus test if you will, which could never be completed with 49 Slab MPs, because they were there solely for the purpose of making up the numbers to help elect a London Labour Government and toeing the party line of that London Labour party.
Let’s have none of the quite common, “I’m not an SNP supporter but!” Be proud of this party as they are doing what no other party in Scotland can or are willing to do.
We have an SNP governmentwhich will hopefully be re-elected in 2016 and now we have a SNP majority at Westminster.
This, allied to the possible full devolvement of all matters bar Defence and foreign affairs will be the catalyst for full independence perhaps in the next ten years or so.
Keep the heid as they say and keep exposing the fear-mongering lies and the deliberate misleading of the Scottish citizenry as it is going to be a long drawn out battle for that most cherished right of self determination!
God speed.
I suggest the SNP tag amendments onto every bill in the commons. Lots and lots of amendments.
If the clowns want to deny democracy to Scotland then you can deny them theirs by making it very difficult to do business. Quid pro Quo.
Now that we’re all singing from the same hymn-sheet as it were, I do wish the Celtic fans would desist from taunting the Aberdeen support for voting NO at the Referendum, such was the sherricking at the weekend that one irate Dons fan lost it completly, threw caution to the wind and his pie at the Celtic captain who said he would have eaten it but the manager would not have been very pleased. 🙂
If Cameron is actually going to give us the “most-devolved” then given that status us currently held by Greenland it’s going to have to be full independence. Otherwise he’ll need to match that relationship which means implementing full Devo-Max. Sort of a transitional state to full independence with an implicit currency union.
Re Neil Hay losing to Ian Murray following the smear campaign orchestrated by Labour. I do think he ought to get advice about suing for defamation. His remarks were completely misrepresented by Labour. The campaign advisers circulated details almost immediately and there are questions about how they identified the owner of the Twitter account. It has caused real damage to Neil Hay both reputation and income.
Also we have yet to hear the outcome of the inquiry into memo-gate. It may well be that Mr Carmichael will have to resign.
It would be a shame to lose two of the remaining unionist MPs, but not much.
alan milburn appears to be advocating wholesale reform of nhs on daily politics. health minister 99-03 or so. prob vested interests but still worrying how openly he supports the tory agenda. in fact as usual, the entire panel has consensus on the inviability of the nhs. even though it’s the world’s most efficient health service. troubling. on the other hand Murphy was given the all clear to remain in post by said panel.
Ah, the LOCK OUT that precedes THE STING.
Great movie.
@Scott Borthwick says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:49 am:
… We need to think about what issues we want raised and lobby him to do so. He might prove more useful to us than you think.”
You also need to look at making sure he has lots of things to deal with in the constituency. Many questions on constituency issues to make certain he needs a really good and efficient constituency staff. Make sure his office expenses are spent and his staff are on their toes. Every minute spent on constituency mattes is a minute not spent on hitting the SNP parliamentary business. MPs have stood down from overwork.
Intresting but not surprising to see opposition parties aggreing on most indy questions and the level of fear and uncetianty being promoted at such an early stage of the independence campaign.
ironic that the high speed broadband question wasnt going to be addresed untill 2015 giving rural areas less access to sites like this one untill after the referendum.
@Joemcg says: 12 May, 2015 at 10:02 am:
“So much for Nicola’s election mantra to make Scotland’s voice heard. It’s been blown out of the water immediately.”
Pish!
link to bbc.co.uk
BBC Scotland’s vote Slabour 2020 campaign continues a pace. Eleanor Bradford, she say should have, could have, would have voted creepy Jim for his 100000000 nurses, you ingrates.
“During the general election campaign, both the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Conservatives promised to employ an extra 1,000 nurses in Scotland. However, Mrs Rushforth said the problem is a severe shortage of qualified staff.”
Just in case you’re not catching the UKOK Bradford propaganda, she highlighted her script, Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives
@ The Man in the Jar
Murray’s majority was 316 in 2010, over the Lib Dems. His predecessor Nigel Griffiths had retired under a cloud and Labour was apparently not really expecting to hold onto the seat. In the event, he scraped in.
This time, alas, his majority has increased to 2,637, taking the unionist total to 4,252.
i’m fed up with this unionist lovebombing.
the snp now have a legitimate right to be asking scottish questions.
can’t you just feel the love, brothers and sisters.
🙂
I see Guido’s put Rowley’s letter up in full as well; and he’s onto McTernan. Don’t think Guido will let that bone go.
I guess we should have got 59 seats before the SNP has any say in Westminster?What is it about Ian Murray,even members of my own branch we’re saying “he’s a good man”.Bollocks!
*If* Mundell & Murray obstruct democratically elected MPs, I suspect it will once again draw the attention of both UN & CoEu invigilators to a democratic deficit in Scotland [& likely one in Wales/NI too].
Ultimately that could force WM to look at reform which would be to the benefit of all nations within the Union. So currently their refusal to work with SNP doesn’t worry me much. As someone once said “Bring it on!”
@Robert Peffers
Actually the UK is a country.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain, is a sovereign state in Europe. Lying off the north-western coast of the European mainland, the country includes the island of Great Britain—a term also applied loosely to refer to the whole country—the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland and many smaller islands.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Sorry for O/T but Tom Gordon has managed to find out what the new logo for Labour in Scotland is. 😉
link to twitter.com
This is as nothing compared to what Labour will get up to in the Lords re any extra powers. We have of course mo representation in the Lords and this interference must be deemed unconstitutional.
Brent still creeping up $65.25.
Robert-lol at pish! One question? So it’s not been silenced a wee bit? No? Capella-I second that. The unfounded and trumped up smears on Mr Hay has left a bad taste and ultimately cost him his job. Politics is a dirty game but surely when a person’s income has been affected with lies something needs to be done.
link to sundaypost.com
It doesn’t sound like Scottish questions at Westminster is a particularly worthwhile exercise so the best policy is probably to largely ignore it. Possibly even boycott it. Why give these people an audience?
Our First Minister, Alex Salmond etc will absolutely have war-gamed the kind of outcome we got from last Thursday. These are extremely clever people who have waited on their chance a long, long time.
We elected them and invested them with our trust and we must now trust them to carry out their task waiting watchfully on outcomes.
Must be vigilant to make sure the Scottish electorate are aware of this.
The way that place works things cannot happen as quickly as we would like. Time for some faith.
Already, the tories have appointed a total numptie to the toom tabard post of SoS Scotland. Personally, I think Cameron has thrown him to the wolves. There are competent tory peers (however distasteful that would have sounded) who could have taken this slightly meaningless post with Mundell trying to fend stuff off in the house as deputy. Baroness Goldie for one.
We have to keep our trust in thise we have elected and in the FM directing them and play the watchful waiting game.
Socrates MacSporran , @ 10.32 says
” …Mr Belcrow (or if he isn’t, his successor) is someone the SNP must cultivate…”
Hopefully by getting his name correct for one thing!!!
Debbie-could the adulation for Murray be because he is a Hearts fan? Remember how tribal football supporters are. That’s all I have heard from some people “he’s a good Hertz man” pathetic really.
‘Holey’ Trinity of Mundell, Carmichael, Murray, trying to play God when their decimated parties and policies are shot full of holes…
Just another example -as if any were needed – of the weird procedures and anachronisms that dictate the way we are governed.
Ian Murray should not present a problem. If a YES sticker is attached to wherever he sits -I mean whatever bench he sits on – he will go into a long term sulk.
As for Eleanor Bradford I suggest you do what most viewers do and recognise her incessant anti SNP propaganda for what it is.
In a word Rev. Stu. I’m not feeling the love but some painful extraction of it from them might help!
The answer would be for the SNP to be designated as the official opposition for the duration of Scottish Questions. That way they would get to ask the most questions, which is only fair given they have 56 of the 59 MPs.
While we’re at it, clearly the SNP should chair the Scottish Affairs Committee. I nominate Alex Salmond.
I posted this in the wee sma’ hoors…don’t know if many have picked up on it, perhaps because it’s not relevant, I think it may have some bearing on the lead up to our elections next year…
Cameron ‘making plans’ to bring the EU referendum forward to 2016.
Talk about ‘election’ fatigue’! I don’t trust him a bit, and though he claims this move is to avoid a ‘politically dangerous clash with the French and German elections of 2017’. I could see the potential to somehow ‘scupper’ the momentum of the SNP in some way with this too.
While all eyes and all media are on EU build up, people’s attention is drawn away from the immediate issues in Scotland.
Am I just paranoid, is this now my new normal since the Indyref. So be it 🙂
link to archive.is
Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?
link to thecourier.co.uk
@yoda
‘am the laird o’ Udny’s feel , fa’s feel are e?
@ Yoda:
Talking bollocks you are.
@Joemcg
at 12:35pm
Thanks for the correction. That’s why I referenced Wikipedia. It did seem a bit extreme. If they missed a zero off the end of Murrays total that would make his majority 3,160 and when total is adjusted it makes the total unionist vote majority of 4,775 which looks more like a figure that I have read elsewhere.
Anyone got more reliable figures?
I guess it’s how the system works. Just as 50% of the vote gets 96% of the MPs.
@Training Day says: 12 May, 2015 at 10:15 am:
“A Mundell and Murray ‘SNP bad’ tag team playing asinine games and mocking the Scots who voted for the SNP in a pointless ritual openly derided by English MPs?”
Another way round the matter is to ignore Scottish Questions and ask the Scottish Questions at PM’s Questions or Treasury Questions or whatever. There cannot be a single Westminster Scottish matter that is totally Scottish for if it did it would fall under the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood. It will annoy the hell out of overgrown Schoolboy Dave and the SNP questioners will not be the same pushovers as Miliband and Clegg.
The simple wording of a question can put it under the PM’s Question Time remit. No one at Westminster knows the arcane rules better than Oor Eck. They ignore him at their own risk. The man is not down there, NOT taking the Westminster leadership from Angus, but sticking on the back benches for nothing. He is not your average back seat passenger in political situations.
Just look at Eck’s face in the group photos – does that look like the face of someone not enjoying the game? Mark my words – when they least expect it Salmond will shock them.
I read earlier (somewhere) that Marwick has had talks with the Scottish Party leaders re: How long the term of the next SG will run after 2016.
3yrs or 5yrs as the current date after 2016 will clash with the next UK GE 2020. Answers on a fag packet please!
It’s all go on the politics front is it not. 🙂
This image of only one Tory MP on the government benches and one Labour guy asking the bulk of the questions while sitting alone on opposite benches and 56 SNP MPs and Mr Carmichael sitting quietly behind is laughable.Of course,they,both Tories and Labour will no doubt draft in others of their parties who were born in Scotland,the same thing Labour used to critise the Tories for previously, I think. It should be broadcast live and worldwide to expose how shallow and inflexible Westminster is. Democracy,eh? It’s going to look ridiculous.
How Labour must wish they hadn’t worked for the Tories for the last 3 years against their own electorate,how the LibDems must wish they hadn’t worked for the Tories against their Scottish electorate for the last 5 years.
As for blaming the SNP for their losses in Scotland,I seem to remember reading that it was alleged to be the case that Labour activists campaigned for the Tories for the cost of dinner,but I don’t remember seeing it on telly at all as a reason for the SNP landslide.
We all saw the pictures of Labour party activists at the champagne swilling vote no thanks celebrations. Also,they seemed to be the party that put less powers forward in their devo nano caper while Mr Brown promised home rule and near federalism if voters voted no.
Labour MPs and other party apparatchiks making speeches and other appearances at Conservative conferences and saying the NHS is safe while folk in England were recreating marches from the past to tell the world that it isn’t didn’t help either, I’m sure.
This time next year,Scottish Labour could have been forming the first democratically elected government of an independent Scotland,with all the taxes and income from Scottish resources,securing the future for all Scots and setting an example for the gaining of freedom without first having a war.Instead,they will form the one man opposition with a whole six questions to a one man government bench.
Murphy doesn’t want Labour members speaking out about the mess Labour are in. He says that anyone who does so is disloyal.
MSP Alex Rowley disagrees – resigns from Labour’s (Holyrood) shadow cabinet and speaks out against Murphy and McTernan regardless. Good for him.
link to thenational.scot
WOW!
I never thought I’d see the day where a Tory Lord was backing, well as close to backing as a Tory could go, Scottish independence.
We used to say if the SNP won a majority in seats in Scotland then they could have independence.
“They got 50 per cent of the vote and 95 per cent of the seats and the reality is you have to respond to that and I think what the government needs to do is produce a white paper which that sets out how fiscal autonomy, devo-max, call it what you will, would work in practice so people are aware of the advantages and the disadvantages.
link to commonspace.scot
@The Man in the Jar / Joemcg
National has result figs of Edin South >
Lab Maj of 2637 for Murray
Murray Lab (Wxnk)- 19,293
Hay SNP (Good guy)- 16.656
🙂
@gordoz
at 2:25pm
Thanks for those figures. If I add that to the Wikipedia figures for Carmichael and Mundel it make a total unionist vote majorities by seat of 4,252 which sounds very close to other numbers that I have seen.
Pretty pathetic whatever way you look at it.
Surely we all knew this was coming.
Westminster has spent many generations ignoring Scotland even as they asset-strip its natural resources. Did people really expect that to change just by sending extra people for them to ignore?
It’s why I never really got caught up in all the excitement about the election.
Independence is the only way Scotland will extricate itself from beneath Westminster’s thumb.
All that happened was we managed to severely weaken one of the multiple enemies the establishment has set against us. It’s an achievement to be proud of, but not the one we needed…
Why did the Greens field a candidate against Mundell ?
That alone makes me aware once again that the Greens are a UK Unionist Party with a Scottish Branch.
I will not be voting for them ever.
As far as Mundell’s public statement about Scotland, how will the Public know ?
They will not here it from the BBC or MSM.
And thanks again Orkney.
@deewal 2.35
TROLL ALERT
Perhaps, the single question directed at Mundell at the first meeting of Scottish Questions should be, “Given that the Secretary of State for Scotland has publicly declared that Scotland no longer exists, could the honourable gentleman explain to this House as to why he is here representing an apparently non-existent country?”
I am sure we would all like to hear his response.
Let the piss take begin! 😉
I’ve just read over on Twitter that the FAMOUS 56 are attaching their new Westminster passes to YES Scotland lanyards. 😀
Oh and this from Pete Wishart. 😛
Teasing English based Scots Tories that if they’re appointed deputy to lone panda @DavidMundellDCT they’ll be dubbed the ‘bamboo carrier’.
As someone else on here said,I pass the posh Edinburgh morningside area daily and the plethora of vote Murray posters in £1 million plus and upward homes were truly a sight to behold, labour the working class party.
I’m thoroughly looking forward to a bit more scrutiny of these ‘Ask the Panda’ sessions purely because of the sheer bizarre dynamic of it all – 1 v 1 v 56.
If the failure to recognise the SNP as the official opposition in Scotland actually happens, another bungee holding the union goes snap!
Even if the chamber questions don’t change, there are now 56 sources of written questions to run the little bastard off his feet – I hope Fluffy’s in shape.
And of course, it should now become chamber etiquette to address the panda properly – now is that Sunshine, or Sweetie? Or Yon Wank?
What this really highlights is how pointless the Scottish Office now is.
I can tell you how at least some of the people in Edinburgh South feel ….. we feel that those who were duped into the ‘I’m Mr Nice Guy’ line from Murray and his people need to have a serious look at themselves.
It’s the same old NuLabour tact of ‘if you keep saying it often enough people will believe it’. Murray backed it up with unprovable figures that were never contested. Of that, Neil Hay and the SNP are guilty. To his credit, Hay remained with the case for a better Scotland and a stronger SNP (Not one I necessarily subscribe to but that’s his right).
What NH is not guilty of is everything else he is accused of by a vindictive and substandard media. All lies and smears driven by a men shown to be the snakes, most of us know them to be, and aided and abetted by some vile Murray side-kicks unashamedly willing to taint a persons character for a few pennies and some prestige.
I’m tired of defending Neil Hay, yet every time I say that something else comes up, but he is a thoroughly decent guy and both WM and local politics is all the worse for him not contributing.
Hopefully he stands next year but I somehow feel that’s unlikely.
I hope Edinburgh South sees Murray for what he is now – a deceitful, greedy wee man that speaks with a forked tongue.
@ michaelc
“We have to keep our trust in those we have elected and in the FM directing them and play the watchful waiting game.”
First class advice Michael. Well said. No football fan in his right mind feels the need to run onto the park and kick the ball. Instead, he knows his role and plays his part, which is why he’s called a supporter.
Our role is to support the 56, not replace them; otherwise known as the Twelfth Man.
@Macca73 says: 12 May, 2015 at 2:04 pm:
“Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?”
C’mon, Macca73, This is Alex Salmond you are talking about. He plays Cameron like a trout on the end of a line.
If he says he want’s to do away with the Scottish Office and doesn’t want Mundell as SoS it probably means he wants Mundell in the post for some arcane reason.
Remember how he had the Unionists convinced he wanted a third question on the Referendum Paper and had them thinking it was all their idea to not have the third question.
I may be wrong but I’d say Eck is hard at work already.
Dear Rev
I am going to take a huge risk now. I am going to address you directly when, so far, you have continued to allow my interventions on WoS.
Your article is all about the apparent unfairness and holes in the democracy that may mean the voices of the 56 SNP MPs might be suppressed by some of the traditional conventions in the House of Commons and the difficulty of minority parties generally being heard when there is a government majority.
Firstly, and on the generality, the noises coming out of Westminster suggest to me that most of the Tory hierarchy, that I have heard speak on the subject since Thursday, are open to discussions taking matters further than were promised via Smith. We don’t know how Scottish Questions are going to be handled yet – bearing in mind the result in Scotland. Maybe take a breath and wait just a little while for the Parties sort these things out before you assume the worst?
Secondly, and on a specific point, there is more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole article. May I point you to page 11 of the SNP manifesto and the headline on that page.
@deewal. There was a really good SNP response in Orkney and Shetland. Carmichael got in by 800 votes. That’s unheard of. SNP usually trails LD. But there were about 1400 votes for UKIP! Must be the fisherman and EU fisheries law. The highest % vote for UKIP in Scotland at 4.6%.
@Lesley-Ann
“Let the piss take begin! ;)”
That would be fundellymundelly wrong.
@ Oneironaut
“Westminster has spent many generations ignoring Scotland even as they asset-strip its natural resources.
Independence is the only way Scotland will extricate itself from beneath Westminster’s thumb.”
May I be so bold as to ‘update’ your comment, Oneironaut. Since 2010 and the onset of ‘permanent austerity’, I believe the thumb has been replaced by a tackety boot. In every other aspect of what you say, I agree completely.
Where is David Torrance?
Torrance faint praise, if any, mixed with sniping and bitterness as usual says:
At the same time, it seems unlikely the SNP’s 56 MPs will have any genuine clout at Westminster. To have real influence, they need to be prepared to negotiate and occasionally vote with the Conservatives (as Mr Salmond did as an MP in the early 1990s), and Ms Sturgeon has made it clear that will not happen.
link to archive.is
@Chic – who gives a fuck ?
Having just listened again to David Mundell, I am reminded just how obnoxious, offensive and repellant he is. I find his attitude unbearable.
To think Patrick Harvie and the Greens had the opportunity to remove this odious little man, but chose instead to selfishly piss away 839 meaningless votes when Mundell had a majority of 798. I won’t be forgetting that in a hurry, but then how could I or any of us, with Mundell as Sec of State for Scotland till 2020.
@ The Man in the Jar
I tried to answer your questions about Ian Murray’s majority earlier, but the post has gone into moderation (I’ve no idea why).
The only thing I said which has not been covered by other people is that the 316 was his majority in 2010 (over the LDs). His predecessor had stood down and he was not expected to win, but he did.
(Try again to see if this post appears.)
I think the spectacle of 56 SNP MPs sitting on their hands watching Ian Murray ask half a dozen questions is absurd – I would like to see them attack Murray and Mundell’s legitimacy by ignoring them as an irrelevance.
59 would have been wonderful but the difference between say 50 and 59 is symbolic. Both count as a shedload. Ian Murray won his seat whether we like it or not and harping on about the smear campaign now is pointless. If the media hadn’t hounded Neil Hay they would have just found another candidate to demonise. We could hardly expect anything else from labour or the press.
Similarly blaming the Scottish Greens is wholly counterproductive when so many Green voters lent their votes to the SNP. Blaming voters is the labour way – not the Yes way. I thought the Greens ran a conspicuously low profile practice campaign to get the machine ready for next year. God bless them for that.
Just remember – we don’t need another SNP majority for another indyref – we need a majority of pro indy MSPs.
So we get Fluffy as SOS? I look forward to him being asked questions by Richard Arkless, SNP MP for my home town of Dumfries (and Galloway). Galloway has had a strong SNP showing in elections but not Dumfries. Never Dumfries until now.
Trust me-that was one of the greatest achievements of the election.
Regarding the EU Ref
You would think there would have to be a minimum vote limit to make the result acceptable
On political engagement England doesn’t seem to much care what happens in their country but enjoy moaning about the result a lot…It’s all the fault of those Scotch
They get free prescriptions
They get free Tuition
They get free Bus passes
They get new Hospitals
Ta Da Ta Da and on
Do you think it’s maybe never occurred to them we might have a Government that’s just a wee bitty more prudent and sensible with the cash
Oh forgot, they give us it all out of the kindness of their hearts
COZ THEY LOVE US THE MOSTEST IN THE WHOLE OF EVERYWHERE
@ call me dave
I think the Scots word you are looking for is “kepper” i.e. a ball easily caught. You can still hear older fans using it when a weak cross is directed into the box.
Slightly o/t: I see Cameron, no doubt at Murdoch’s behest, is to get tough with the “left-leaning” BBC. Any chance he might make some mischief and offer Nicky devolved broadcasting? Too Machiavellian?
Just imagine: Jackie no more, Campbell no more, Bradford no more…
Its getting very odd out there in Vote Anyone but SNP teamGB land, you’re either too left, too right, too middle, too stupid, too bigoted, too easily led, too gullible, too bigoted did I say, first past the post must go, PR favours bigots, FTP splits up happy and glorious greatest ever and blessed union, scrap Holyrood devolve to county councils, SNP now Westminster irrelevance and so on, and all because YOU, yes YOU voted SNP last week.
Also SLabour say SNP won because they ran a better campaign, which is probably they stupidest thing they’ve come up with since lunchtime.
Presumably DrUKOK actually works for a living at uni but
link to drscottthinks.wordpress.com
Jamie Arriere @ 2.49.
“Yon Wank” – brilliant, coffee spilled all over my keyboard.
manandboy says:
12 May, 2015 at 3:29 pm
I think you are very, very wrong. If I was a Green activist/voter I would be pissed off if my Party did not put up a candidate.
Keep your anger for the Tories NOT the Greens.
@ manandboy – Patrick Harvie does not control the Green Party its members do. The overwhelming number of Green supporters in Scotland voted SNP, only the die-hard tree-huggers voted Green. There is no way those voters would have all voted SNP.
David Torrance is not only a self serving little suck up weasel he’s also a LIAR
The former first minister said no such thing
Question; Do you think this result will bring Independence closer
Answer; Yes, followed by a qualifying statement regarding manifesto and so on
Torrance’s article among others is the typical distortion of the facts that has become the hallmark of this type of gutter tripe
Question; Do you deny you beat your wife
Answer; Yes of course i do
Resulting Article; Accusations of assault and wife beating were today denied by….Whomever
He’s a little shit like the rest of them
direct from the little school of gossip mongering
can i get my money now STV or BBC or anybody
@ K1 Am I just paranoid. Yupt an your badge is ordered.
BrianDTT & Pete TC another addition to the Badge stock.
@Spout says: 12 May, 2015 at 11:49 am:
“I agree with much that you say in your post BUT being Gay is not dysfunctional …”
Whoa! There, Spout. I didn’t say being gay was dysfunctional I said that institutional sexual abuse was dysfunctional and was, if reports are correct, certainly not by any means just homosexual.
I have no problems with any form of loving relationships but the abuses, reportedly involving members of both Houses of Parliament, were far from being loving relationships, and most certainly not with the free consent of both parties.
If I gave any other impression then I apologise.
sensibledave:
“Secondly, and on a specific point, there is more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole article. May I point you to page 11 of the SNP manifesto and the headline on that page.”
Page 11 is headed ‘An end to Tory government’, and there is a graphic with a caption suggesting that the Tories will not enter number 10 after the election.
Where, on this page, is there a commitment which can be called hypocritical when compared with this article? There is a clear promise in the manifesto to do anything democratically possible to stop one party forming a government. Shoud such a manifesto committment be outlawed?
It may be said that the Tories and Labour wanted to shut the SNP out of government (was it in their manifestoes?). In this aim they have been more successful than the SNP.
Did the SNP make a promise to try and lock the others out of debate and discussion? i do not see it. And, as of yet, the others have not made any moves to lock the SNP out of such discussions as involve Scotland. But the National is warning, and the Rev highlights the warning, that existing procedures of the HoC will give undue emphasis to the voices of 2 of Scotland’s MPs to the virtual exclusion of 56 others.
All this nonsense about the Greens
Do you want a democracy or not
People can vote for whomever they choose you can’t go around shouting about democracy to others and then deny someones right to exercise it
joemcg,
Sadly what you say of Murray’s constituency is correct. ‘Vote Labour’ posters were seen in some of the most expensive of detached villas within his patch.
Ian Murray, a REAL red Tory, elected by tories.
@ manandboy, spot on, I expressed the same sentiment myself on here, they were playing at politics to boost their Holyrood chances & ego’s while others were chapping doors till their knuckles bled trying to remove an arsehole.
They voted against the 56, they’re not part of the solution they’re part of the problem and not slow in stepping up to the mike at the rallies either. Who needs friends like that? I’ve yet to hear any kind of appology from Scruffy Pat.
O/T
In March 1824 the Edinburgh Chess Club played a match by correspondence with the London Chess Club,the losing team to present the winners with a siver cup of the value of Twenty Five Guineas.
The match took 4 years to complete and the Edinburgh Team despite being massive underdogs were victorious,the Scot’s Gambit Cup is proudly displayed in the Edinburgh Chess Club’s trophy cabinet.
During the course of the match,London tried to recall moves already received by the Edinburgh club,this was widely regarded as attempted cheating and frowned upon by the international chess community.
(The Scot’s game has been re-popularised by Grand Masters Gary Kasparov and Jan Timman ).
The lesson in this,you cannot win the middle/end game if you do not adopt the correct strategy in the opening game,I am sure our team know this and have devised their strategy,the Scot’s Gambit.
The London boys,having never before faced such a gambit will proceed cautiously,but at some point will make a fatal error (perhaps they have already done so ?) and the Scots will prevail.
I can wait. 🙂
If I was a green voter in the only Tory held constituency in Scotland, and knowing the poll results in the run up to May 7th, then I would have looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself the question ‘Do I want to get Mundell out, or do I want to hug another tree and have a little chat with it about Scottish Politics.’
And you know what, I would have voted SNP and then gone and hugged the tree, who would in all likelihood have congratulated me due to the tree being a couple of hundred years old and knew a thing or two about what’s good for Scotland.
Sorry @ Work so not read the comments until I get home tonight .
O/T Radio keeps blurtting out how BAD it is in S NHS with a crazy shortage of nurses.
What , get JM out here now, he knows where to find 1000 !
I expect him to be on every news broadcast tonight explaining it to us all ….. mmmm
This is not meant in any way to belittle any crisis those in NHS are dealing with as best they can.
We all accept they do a great job .
@Tinto Chiel : Thanks for that.
@Dr Jim: Don’t hold back Dr Jim!!! 🙂 I agree.
PS:
Not all Greens are vegetables, personally I like my Greens!
They kinda round off the main course and compliment the whole as they should.
Lets appreciate our greens … and not bin them.
@Lesley-Anne
Michael Forsyth’s a very interesting figure in a way. He’s not a Tory clone by any means. During the Thatcher era he replaced Ian Lang and proceeded to be the scourge of Scotland (in many people’s mind) because he genuinely believed that Scotland had to be dragged into the real world and stop thinking its heavy industry could compete with the Japanese and Koreans. And I think that it is fair to say that we couldn’t. Others might have presided over the change with more humanity, or have been a bit more imaginative about what we could do with our skilled workforce….but there we go.
Now, it seems to me, he is genuinely thinking about where Scotland can go next – within the Union of course – There may be no long-term answer, and I suspect if there isn’t he will realise it and recognise it long before many other unionists. Unlike Henry McL, he’s not a fence-sitter, and when he thinks the union game is lost, he will say so.
A lot of Greens and SSP people voted SNP in this election and in those constituencies where they have a reasonable chance then we should return the favour on the list vote.
Remember if the SNP win a lot of constituency votes they get a limited number of list seats so we can maximise the Yes vote by improving the Greens and SSP chances at the expense of the Unionist parties.
manandboy says:
12 May, 2015 at 4:10 pm
If I was a green voter in the only Tory held constituency in Scotland, and knowing the poll results in the run up to May 7th, then I would have looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself the question ‘Do I want to get Mundell out, or do I want to hug another tree and have a little chat with it about Scottish Politics.’
And you know what, I would have voted SNP and then gone and hugged the tree, who would in all likelihood have congratulated me due to the tree being a couple of hundred years old and knew a thing or two about what’s good for Scotland.
There are a few green unionists, you know – the trendy tree hugging variety who actually like being British. Not many, admittedly, but put them off voting Green and they may have voted Tory!
Yes, I cannot understand them either, but each to his/her own, all sorts to make a world etc.
Robert Peffers says:
12 May, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@Macca73 says: 12 May, 2015 at 2:04 pm:
“Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?”
C’mon, Macca73, This is Alex Salmond you are talking about. He plays Cameron like a trout on the end of a line.
If he says he want’s to do away with the Scottish Office and doesn’t want Mundell as SoS it probably means he wants Mundell in the post for some arcane reason.
Remember how he had the Unionists convinced he wanted a third question on the Referendum Paper and had them thinking it was all their idea to not have the third question.
I may be wrong but I’d say Eck is hard at work already
I think there’s 56 at work actually Robert and I’m off to get some popcorn!!
As I pointed out on an earlier thread when the same silliness was made about the Greens – like many other Green Party supporters I campaigned with the SNP.
Some constituencies chose to stand candidates and many of those members voted SNP. There is a hard-core deep Green vote that would not of voted SNP ever alongside another group who, like Robin Harper were against independence.
Please no more nonsense about the Green Party, they are harder to herd than Wingers and Wingers are harder to herd than cats.
manandboy
I would have done the same but the fact remains that a significant number of traditional Scottish Greens supporters lent their vote to the SNP.
Fluffy got in which is a crying shame. The only way to make that worse is to castigate green voters and lose the goodwill between Yes parties in the process.
I am not suggesting you are doing any such thing but I would hate for any Green voter to get the idea they are thought of as fodder, or subordinates in general elections. Describing them as ‘tree-huggers’ is not great either.
It is time the SNP established an allied English branch in the North of England.
That way we can get enough numbers in Westminster to simply vote ourselves Independence and the North regional autonomy. After all the North has oil too (actually its ours but it’s a small price for freedom).
A few by elections and we’d be in.
Who NOW, will represent Scotland at EU Fisheries meetings etc..
With a pending EU REF’… I AM WORRIED WE ARE BEING SOLD OUT..
… AGAIN..
BBC Radio Scotland.
Toodle-oo the noo gasps as Rowley opines that labour in Scotland could disappear! Jim must go!
Whispering into the microphone , (he may have winked or blinked) he said…
“The Scottish labour group at Westminster is united, there’s only one of them”
@mananboy @Fred etc etc
Dr Jim, Clootie and others are quite correct
I recall posting on this site last year to get the SNP to stand down in South Edinburgh to the Greens who should stand down everywhere else. I wrote to both the SNP and Greens about it. And I dont have a crystal ball either – but I was right.
If there was no deal, there was no deal – now lets get it right for the list in 2016 unless you want Kezia for a few more years.
In politics, a deal has to work for everyone – not just one side. Catch yourselves on.
The DCT election votes were as follows
CON 20,759
SNP 19,961
LAB 7,711
UKIP 1,472
LIB 1,392
GREEN 839
The SNP would have won if more people had voted for them instead of Labour, UKIP, Liberal and Green.
Why single out the Greens? They have just as much right to stand even though, as people point out above, they had no hope of winning.
Emma Harper did exceptionally well and if, by any chance, David Mundell retires, it looks like she would win next time.
Indeed, lay off the smaller parties.
SMALL PARTY SOCIALISTS /GREENS VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY FOR SNP.
They told their supporters to LEND the SNP their vote.
Sour grapes about the “posh green” vote will not help. Dont think that there is a similar “posh” wing within other parties though, just a stubbornness which is too easy to play into..
At long last, a Slabber MSP had belled the Murphy Cat.
@ James Kay 4.01
Hi James = On the online version of the Manifesto at: link to votesnp.com The headline “let’s Lock out the Tories” is written in inch high letters – which, I assume is a promise (pre election) to try and make sure, even if the Tory’s are the biggest party at Westminster, that everything should be done to stop them having influence?
Its no great issue, other than, even if the SNP MPs were being “shut out” (which I see no evidence of) at the moment, then it is no more, or less, than the SNP wanted to help orchestrate the other way round, if the opportunity arose. Hence my comment.
You know that the SNP will get short shrift when it comes to influencing the government’s economic policy. However, I think, and hope, that on the subjects of both Scottish Questions and future Scottish governance, that they will be listened to and responded to.
Many here seem to be in “fight” mode. I don’t see much appetite for a fight coming from the Tory hierarchy with respect to Scottish issues. I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.
O/T
I have just completed a YouGov Political Survey which was extremely intrusive.
It asked just about every possible question as to my political views and make me think after completing it that if ever the bad guys decided to suppress The SNP I would be on the list for an early morning knock on the door.
Maybe I was unwise to give away so much info and would caution others who may be selected for this survey.
Don’t want to get into a flame war over the Greens, but if there had been a concerted “YES” effort, some Labourites and Lib Dems might have been more determined to vote for Fluffy. Morag said her Labour-voting neighbour voted SNP to keep out the Tories.
There was a map in which pink was used to show constituencies where the real winner was “didn’t vote”. Large swaths of NI and Wales. In rUK it seemed to correspond to seats which went to Labour, surprisingly enough.
The only constituency in politically active Scotland to be pink was Orkney and Shetland. Not sure what this means… Nordics scunnered with the Lib Dems but not prepared to vote SNP for their own grievances against the Scottish Government?
Greens are harder to herd than wingers. Oi! Wingers are cats. Cool Cats!
The Scottish Labour Group at Westminster are United? Oh! Yes? .I listened to him on GMSthis morning and I am sure I detected conflict. One of him was against Trident the other one of him was suspiciously for Trident. A split already?