The lockout
There was an interesting line in The National yesterday:
“The monthly Scottish Questions in Parliament looks set to be an odd affair.
In other words, business as usual.
Both the new Scottish Secretary, David Mundell, and his new shadow, Labour’s Ian Murray, were interviewed on today’s Good Morning Scotland. Mundell ruled out full fiscal autonomy, and indeed any suggestion that the SNP landslide had represented an expression by Scottish voters of a desire for more in the way of devolution than the feeble Smith Commission proposals.
Murray, meanwhile, stated his intent as being to oppose both the Tories and the SNP, refusing several times when asked to say that he’d work constructively with the MPs holding 95% of Scottish seats. (Indeed, despite reiterating his own opposition to the renewal of Trident, he wouldn’t say whether he’d actually vote against it.)
So Scotland knows where it stands. Two MPs from parties with just 3% of Scottish seats between them both plan to spend their time blocking the aims of a party with 95% of seats. Indeed, that party will barely even be allowed to be heard in the single brief Parliamentary session devoted to Scottish matters each month.
To onlookers, it seems that Scottish Questions will continue much the same as it did for the last five years – Labour setting up softball anti-SNP questions to give the Tories a chance to bash the Nats while both parties’ MPs sit on the government and opposition benches hooting and jeering in open contempt.
(Or simply drowning out the debate entirely with disrespectful chatter as they wait for the much more important business of Prime Minister’s Questions which follows it.)
The policies Scotland voted overwhelmingly for, in other words, will be sidelined and blocked by two parties who were both humiliated last Thursday with their lowest vote shares of all time, teaming up against the party which secured 120,000 more votes from Scots than any party has ever done at any election in history.
Are you feeling the love yet, readers?
Wish you put a bit of a warning that the “120,000 more votes…” link was a download link and not a link to another article or website. Not that I have any problem with the content of it, but people don’t like things downloading on their computers without full knowledge of that’s what they’re doing. It’s just good online etiquette, that’s all.
As you were…!
😉
Just s question. Will we not get two questions now?
If that’s the case then the SNP contingent should visibly protest, all of them with hands over mouth during the session, or holding panda toys.
If the new influx of SNP MPs isn’t respected with changes made to Scottish Questions to reflect the democratic wishes of the Scottish people, it’s just another nail in the coffin of the union.
This is never going to work other than bringing indyref2 a step closer. Good.
And people down south wonder what’s wrong with us that we want away from Westminster rule…
I can see Scottish labour now “See? See what happens when you try to exercise a democratic right to choose who represents you? Thats why you needed to vote labour, because no one cares what you think not even us”
It isn’t going to work. Its the sort of thing that led to labour being on the end of an historic backhander to the jaw. If they try to pull this sort of nonsense after losing here, they will be on the receiving end of another in 2016.
There will also be a shift in perception. It won’t just be a Westminster party that gets reviled over this. It will be Westminster itself.
This confirms what we already knew. The union is dead. Someone should do the decent thing and get it buried.
That is a complete farce and has to change
Why is that? Where are the rules governing the conduct of such things at Westminster written down?
Living in Edinburgh South the most effective campaign argument against Murray was that his party supported the renewal of Trident. He has a great record as a constituency MP which was hard to argue against.
‘If you vote for Murray, you’re voting for more weapons of mass destruction’ was very effective – I know I used this dozens of times and it worked.
When Murray came out against Trident, I remember thinking ‘shit, that’s my main argument against him gone!’. His volte face on Trident was more effective than Neil Hay’s ‘twitter gate’ nonsense. Not supporting Trident, and being seen to oppose Labour policy, would have garnered him thousands of votes. Enough to win the seat by the few hundred majority he got.
Now he has been elected, he goes on the BBC and refuses to say he’ll vote against Trident renewal – less than one week after promising he would on doorsteps and at hustings.
If he doesn’t vote against Trident it will not be forgotten – but it’s too late, we have him for five more years.
Labour only got one MP, and he was elected on a lie – how very Labour is that?
Is this set up/problem entirely expected by NS? Is this really Plan B that is being put round in social media? Does this really leave our 56 powerless to effect any change? Or do the places on committees and the chairing of two committees mean some influence can be exerted after all?
It would be very very!!!!!!!foolish not to let the voices of SNP MPs not be heard seeing as it was the electorate that put them there they are just gona cause trouble which in a way I think they (the establishment) want.
We have more power than these silly routines suggest though. Remember, we run the Scottish Parliament too. The SNP could bring Scotland to a standstill if it was minded to.
I’m trying to imagine what would have happened if we’d got all 59.
Apparently David Cameron has announced that the Conservatives are the “real party for working people”.
Doublespeak is alive and well and living in Westminster.
The farce that Scottish questions is about to become only emphasizes the insanity of the HoC.
So,
They are trying for a business as usual approach eh? They have forgotton that the Scottish people are awake (with the exception of the ones I heard yesterday on Kaye Adams Programme) to politics now in a way you can only hope.
If they try to shut us down and out then it’s over for the union. I can’t see any way back from that.
If anything you would be better to watch the pandas. Or is it Polar bears now?.There would be more action than at Scottish questions. Lots of hot air and no substance. The committees are where the power lies. As we all know the SNP are now granted places. It will be interesting to discover which ones they will be invited to sit on.
56 SNP mp’s go into the chamber for the first Scottish session, if they are not allowed to ask more than one question, they just ask the question and walk out.
The next session only one SNP MP attends asks the one question and walks out, with a different MP each week.
And each week they must use their question to ask the speaker if it is fair and right for the majority of Scotlands MP’s to be restricked to one question during a scottish question time while a minority party in scotland is allowed six questions.
And just keep on repeating until common sense prevails.
Fuck this farce of a so called democracy. Let’s get the hell out of Westminster. Indyref 2 just got a lot closer.
Well the Tories are just going to continue with their anti SNP line, along with Labour with their SNP bad policy.
Their arrogance with S/Questions is astounding, and if this is their idea of democracy they are getting it badly wrong and resentment from Scots will rise, and rightly so.
They are ending the “Union” all by themselves.
Challenge for students of UK Politics (advanced): Explain the role played by the Scotland office to a foreign observer. Explain why an annual budget of £7m should be spent on this office. Penalty points will be incurred if you fail to keep a straight face. Severe penalty points will be incurred if the foreigner falls over while laughing.
That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country.
There could be a good case here for the entire SNP contingent to attend Scottish Questions but as soon as the session opens get up and leave the chamber, troop outside and hold their own, “Scottish Questions”, with the press and public asking the questions and Angus Robertson calling upon the relevant SNP Shadow Spokesperson to answer them.
Being open to press and public questions it could draw more media attention than the dynamic duo of the Secretary of State Against Scotland & his assistant Shadow Secretary of State Against Scotland.
Ian Murray cannot vote against Trident as it is Labour Party policy to renew these weapons.
Murray is now shadow Secretary of State for Scotland. He sits as a member of the shadow cabinet. He is bound by Collective Responsibility and his personal views become irrelevant. If he disagrees with the policy, he must resign.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP04-82/RP04-82.pdf
Another strong nail in the coffin.The deliberate sabotaging of Scottish Democracy.
The right to another Referedum goes in the Manifesto.
Stupid political manoeuvring implemented by weak men always ends well, as shown in the GE in Scotland.
President Kennedy talked about the tragedy of Scotland. Although what he meant was never really explained, I somehow feel the Labour Party encapsulates the tragedy.
May well be the first rammy, and I’m more than sure Robertson, Salmond et al, will have foreseen this and are ready, because the last thing they will want, is the p“` being ripped.
Can you imagine Alex putting up with that?
Tactical voting occurred in Edinburgh South where almost all the lib dem voters and a lot of tory voters voted for Ian Murray to keep the cybernat Neil Hay out.
Has there ever been a period in Scottish Politics as ‘interesting’ as it is now? I certainly can’t see it being at all dull for the foreseeable future.
Let Westminster play their little games as it’s obvious the Scottish electorate is no longer in the mood to be trifled with! As Indigo says, some sort of visible protest at Scottish Questions could be very effective. All the SNP MPs could sit through the session wearing gags over their mouths for instance.
I disagree, Davy.
I do not know where are the rules which say it is run like that, so I do not know what force they have in law. But I am sure that the SNP know.
What I do think is that any opportunity to make points at Westminster must not be wasted on this kind of thing; a great deal of the point of a high number of MP’s is so that the case for an alternative programme can be made and heard. The SNP are well respected precisely because they have been positive throughout: they have a solid case and when people hear it they vote for it. I have little doubt there is also a constituency for a progressive politics outside of Scotland: but it is stifled.
I sincerely hope that the SNP do not change tack now, nor allow themselves to be distracted by the system they have to work within. No small party has ever got anywhere by focussing on that: we have seen that over and over again, with the Lib Dems and UKIP and on and on: and they do have a point. But the SNP eschewed that approach: they worked with the system as they found it and they won. I think that is instructive
I think it will only be a matter of time before it becomes clear to most people in Scotland that Westminster has no interest in Scotland, or the SNP who want to improve Scotland.
At that point we will have to decide if we happy being told to eating our Honey Nut loops every morning, or do we say stuff this, and vote for a full Scottish breakfast.
Is there a written Law that suppresses SNP asking more than 2 questions per month or is it merely a convention?
Besides, I think Alex will know there is more than one way to be heard. There are written questions, private member’s bills, FFIs and a 56 strong contingent that can make sure debates HAVE to be attended by many more Tory and Lab MPs – even for those shady deals that were previously done in the wee sma’ hours and on Fridays. The Wesminster Parliament is just about to become interesting
Time to dig up the patio – let’s all see where the bodies are buried – Starting with Chilcott. Jeers and boos are no fight against forensic analysis.
We can take the gradualist, slow road with more and more powers.
Or, if WM won’t play ball and make attempts to keep the Union alive, we can let resentment among No voting DevoMaxers build up and ‘be forced’ to call another referendum.
The ball is in Cameron’s court. Does he wish to retain the Union?
Applying a bit of democracy to Scottish Questions would be a good place for him to start.
@Brian Powell
Never heard that quote from Kennedy, Brian. Couldn’t find on an internet search. Can you direct me to a source or give more details, please?
Much obliged.
Ian Murray’s and David Muddle’s homework every 5 weeks.
Make up 6 questions to make SNP look bad,sounds good but!
Surely there is no better viewing than to watch the farce enacted on live tv when Murray reads out 6 questions, but wait no popcorn yet!
Unfortunately any MP with a UK constituency can ask one of the questions.
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-information-office/p08.pdf
Extract page 8:
Oral Questions
Oral questions to both the Secretaries of State for Scotland and Wales take place approximately every five weeks.
Until devolution the Scottish Office had an hour of questions, and the Welsh Office had thirty minutes. After devolution the time available for the Scotland Office (as it is now
known) was reduced to thirty minutes and then further to fifteen minutes.
Questions to both departments may be asked by Members with constituencies anywhere in the United Kingdom but they must now relate to the Secretary of State’s responsibilities following devolution
So let me get this straight
Labour in Scotland has one single solitary MP
Does this mean that this single MP will sit on his own opposite another single solitary MP and talk to each other?
Or will their parties have English MP’s turn out for Scottish Questions?
Where will the SNP MP’s sit while Scottish Questions is on?
Frankly if Westminster doesnt recognise the new reality and allow more questions from representatives of 95% of Scotland, then this should be highlighted at every single opportunity!
If Labour are as they claim a separate party in Scotland then clearly they lost. The shadow to the Secretary of State should come from the party that won in Scotland.
Two people talking to each other while the other 57 look on – presumably Alistair will, as Mudell’s former boss will also have an opinion on the matters.
That would make the proceedings a farce and bring parliament into disrepute.
I am still interested in seeing who leaked the Frenchgate memo. If it was Mundell rather than Carmichael then his stint as Secretary of State may be short.
In between moments of appearing to want to dive into the crowd and start swinging at SNP supporters, Ian Murray claimed he would represent all his constituents, regardless of how they voted. Now, I’m sadly aware that party concerns will trump that, but surely there are enough of us Edinburgh South residents on here to gently pressurise him to do the right thing at Scottish Questions?
We need to think about what issues we want raised and lobby him to do so. He might prove more useful to us than you think.
I thought Labour were going to try and build up their reputation in Scotland. Obviously a load off hot air.
Couldn’t Murray be removed if he is not going to represent the people who voted him in.?
A bit like being stuck down a manhole with your arms wedged by your sides, only way out is to wiggle a bit at a time.
Personally ,the only solution I can see is to stand in and win seats in the rest of the UK.
@ call me dave
Thanks for that. It does not appear to say that there is a rule about how many questions any party can ask: it specifically talks about an MP from anywhere in the UK being able to ask a question.
Again I ask: where does it say that the questions are allocated by party?
I think Les is right. Contempt, arrogance, mockery and ignorance are the hallmarks of the unionist. They will be the ones who bring the whole absurd rotten edifice that is Westminster down.
Ah well, it can only bring independence closer. From what non-unionist No-voters say on the doors (that is, folk who aren’t opposed to the idea of independence – or even quite like it – but just weren’t convinced to vote Yes last year), it seems pretty clear that while they don’t necessarily have the stomach for full independence, they do want a level of autonomy that is beyond anything Westminster would ever be willing to give us.
I don’t think we’re going to win independence through people suddenly deciding it’s their preferred option. We may also not win it through the “New Zealand route”, i.e. accumulating so many powers that, one day, we suddenly realise “oh, we’ve accidentally become independent”, even though that’s clearly the current SNP strategy. No, we’re going to win it through people finally getting tired of Westminster continually frustrating our efforts to get home rule within the UK.
This is a great example. Scotland just voted to have it’s voice heard in the UK, and the UK is saying “nah, nae happening.” Scotland will keep pushing, voting more and more for the SNP and the likes, and the UK will keep resisting. Eventually, that 15 – 25% of non-unionist No-voters will just give up on the UK, and it’ll be the UK’s own fault. What a shame, eh?
Last Thursday was the final attempt of the Scottish people to get more powers (and respect) for Scotland. It looks as if it has failed. There is only one option left, and the majority of Scots will very soon realise this.
@haud on the noo says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:20 am:
I’m trying to imagine what would have happened if we’d got all 59.”
There is nothing to stop Cameron from bringing in a person from the Lords as a Minister to head a Ministry. This has been done before. Nor is there anything to stop him appointing an English, Welsh or N.I. member as SOS.
It won’t look good but then neither does appointing David Mundell to the post. Mundell, after all has said in the past that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”. So he is on public record as claiming Scotland no longer exists.
Only an arrogant, two faced, ignorant numptie like Cameron could appoint as the Secretary of State for Scotland a person who believes Scotland doesn’t exist and only a brain dead, two faced bloody idiot like Mundell would consider accepting the post.
Brainless posh boy Donkey’s leading brain dead, arrogant asses!
Could only happen in a totally failed place like Westminster.
.
Jacqueline McDowell says:
12 May, 2015 at 9:04 am
I believe we are entitled to two questions at PMQ’s as the third party. At Scottish Questions the Main opposition (Labour) have appointed Ian Murray who will ask all six questions to Mundell.
I wonder how long that will last but that is the “Rule”
The Government benches will have zero Scottish MP’s behind Mundell.
This is Plan B and it will work very effectively. Independence is much closer today.
@ Clootie
Where is that rule? can you link please
Scottish democracy stifled yet again by the UK establishment? Who would have thunk it?
If the Unionist parties do intend to continue with this arrangement, then they will find themselves with even less influence in the Scottish parliament next year.
Anyone know what the rate of “wastage” for mps usually is… like how many by elections there may be in a Parliament term?
(Apologies if he use of quotation marks may have caused offense to the sensitive)
This is a farce. How can you have SQ without allowing Scottish MPs to ask the questions. What does a single Edinburgh MP know about problems in the constituancies in the highlands, or Aberdeen or even Fife. Especially when said MP has already said he will fight against the SNP in WM.
This will get interesting, only a pity it’s not weekly.
So much for Nicola’s election mantra to make Scotland’s voice heard. It’s been blown out of the water immediately.
Its pretty clear why their vote Ian Murray campaign was so dirty and desperate. 2 UKOK unionists are now in charge of Scotland. Well at least its one from each Westminster side.
Here in England, SNP Westminster is airbrushed away by their media already, with all and any BBC coverage of the 56 MP’s simply disappeared by midnight. BBC go massive on Nigel Farage return though but he’s a fine English chap.
@Yoda fet tae guck,fan dan you are!
That is nonsense,Joemcg. With the best will in the world (and they do have that) the MSM cannot prevent at least slightly greater coverage of the alternative policies proposed by the SNP than we have seen before. Influence is often more important than power, and a platform is essential to influence. Already the internet has shown that the MSM monopoly of all platforms is gone, and we have seen the results in Scotland
It will get increase support for Independence. Democratic changes also support Independence. Westminster is just signing it’s own death warrant. The arrogance and ignorance of Westminster Unionists MP’s is appalling. A disgraceful anti democratic behaviour.
Labour just don’t get it. They have an opportunity here to start to rebuild a little respect from the Scottish electorate. They could say “We respect the views of the Scottish people and for that reason, we will forego our right to ask six questions and will give that right to the SNP.” Even if the parliamentary procedures prevented it, if they genuinely tried to make it happen, they would get the credit.
The main reason for Labour’s demise in Scotland is their evident contempt for the Scottish people. Until they start to address that, they will stay where they are – at the bottom of the political heap.
A question I posed to several people Would Mr Hay ( edinburgh south)contemplate a Legal challenge given the Interferance of the Media & Labour actavists. Same would apply to Dumfries & Galloway candidate with Ruthie,s intervention & lies ???.
I would contribute to both legal funds.
I think John Redwoods demeanour was very telling on panorama last night. A dyed in the wool tory of the most obnoxious sort he is nevertheless not a fool.
Think even he scents a change in the air, this was the most subdued I have ever seen him. Couple this with our former BFF Dan Snow’s unconcealed rage.
I am convinced that deep down the whole country knows indy is ultimately inevitable but they are not going to go quietly. The trinity of Mundell, Davidson and Carmichael as the unionist reps for Scotland are very much second division.
I think we have to settle into a patient watch of the long game here. Tactics like Murray possibly claiming the full questions on Scottish matters are to be expected.
If labour had any honour or the slightest willingness to cooperate with other parties they would yield on this but the SNP may have to fight to overcome this one. I think they will win this. Hope the Scottish electorate are kept fully informed on the likes of this.
Intersting to note that according to bbc yesterday they had already caused trouble by demanding office space. This is nonsense. They are entitled to this and other priveleges known as the usual channels by long established custom. Still, they must probably fight for these.
Representation on committees which should be a right may be have to fought for. Interestingly, this article is very revealing
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3013633/Eye-tartan-tiger-little-known-Scots-body-holding-City-goliaths-account.html
in the hands of the SNP this could be very powerful indeed.
Salmonds unrivalled knowledge of procedure and the inner workings will yeild fruit in time but things will not happen quickly because of Westminsters institutional loathing of anything new but I have confidence the SNP have long planned for exactly this kind of outcome and have a strategy. I think the SNP always knew labour were unelectable in England and are well prepared for this tory government.
I lived in the south east for 21 years and like rev stu never believed England would elect labour. The tories are the natural party of government down there for the big affluent poulation dense areas and always will be. I think labour are if not permanently finished in England, they will only ever govern occasionally and at that, as a moderate right of centre husk.
Tasmina by the way, was very impressive. Could be a star in the making. Unruffled, confident, articulate, refuseded to be talked over.
I can see the LabServatives speaking in terms of proportional representation when it suits them, but they always backed first past the post.
@John H
You da man.
Totally agree. It’s coming and I don’t even think it will be close next time.
They will have to do some serious accommodating to avoid it.
Demographic changes will bring Independence, by all accounts ie the numbers needed. These actions by Westminster will only bring it closer.
A Mundell and Murray ‘SNP bad’ tag team playing asinine games and mocking the Scots who voted for the SNP in a pointless ritual openly derided by English MPs?
What’s not to like?
Ever since devolution the role of secretary of state for Scotland has been absurd. Neither Westminster’s man in Scotland nor Scotland’s man in Westminster. The post has transformed into Minister for Criticising/Smearing the SNP.
I have faith in the old hands of SNP MPs like Angus Robertson, Alex Salmond and Angus Macneil schooling the talented group of new MPs. I have absolute faith in them exposing this ridiculous, farcical system. Let the games begin.
Watching that clip, I kept hearing the song “Another one bites the dust”.
Over a century ago they tried ignoring the Irish, I wonder how that turned out?
Robert Peffers,
Nice one!
The Scottish eoectorate will see how once again the Unionist Parties lies, have badly let Scotland down. Another wipe out.
Well Fiona I hope so, watching what has occurred in the past three years I’m not very confident. After the euphoria of achieving the landslide it looks like we have taken one step forward and two steps back.
Part of me wants a quiet organised exit out of the union, the other part(the wee angry bit) wants to exact some revenge for the way we have been treated. A screwed up Westminster would be good.!
I have to thank you Stu. Another great article. You and your team are educating Scots all on your own!
I was worried, on Friday, that you might feel like having a break from Wings, but I hate to put pressure on you and say we need you even more!
Nothing changes in the media and we need you to keep us going.
I thought I might feel like a rest from all the politics after such a great result on Friday but I’m even more angry about the status of Scotland.
Thank you again for your tremendous contribution!
A tag team of Mundell and Murray playing asinine ‘SNP bad’ games during a pointless ritual derided by English MPs?
From an independence perspective, what’s not to like?
Scott-“Murray, in between moments of appearing to want to dive in and start swinging at SNP supporters” lol! Gave me a belly laugh, cheers! He did actually!
Perhaps we shouldn’t get too ahead of ourselves. Parliament hasn’t opened yet. A bigger menace than conventions and procedures which disadvantage out country is the totally biased state broadcaster which will do its best to misrepresent everything.
Wait to see how things pan out. Cameron is not cmpletely stupid. And they will have someone there who studied Parnell – not just Eck 🙂
John H @ 09.52
States the issue facing the SNP and the problem facing the unionists.
Within the current constraints the SNP and Scots in general have not only won, but exceeded wildest dreams of any Democratic Party, and marginalised people anywhere.
I”d have thought Tories more cunning and duplicitous than the status quo, but john major proved otherwise in 1992.
Will Ian Murray end up looking like Ian Pasley? labour already resemble either of the two Ulster unionist parties – no surrender, eh Ian? Party and parliament before country.
Aside from gestures, boycotting or sitting in silence, the SNP must ask questions Scots want answered and ensure the answers and contempt displayed by unionism is paced in front of Scots week in week out.
@farrochie
If Trident was so important to Murray, he should have refused the shadow cabinet post and would therefore not have been bound by collective responsibility. Whoever else could taken the post is Labour’s problem.
Us keyboard warriors can get all flustered and pissed off and stamp our feet…..we are ultimately powerless
We have done all we can in sending the 56 down there to bat our corner.
In Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond we have experienced and able parliamentarians who will take no shit and where it is experienced it will be exposed and maximum leverage generated.
Yes it will be a david v Goliath type of struggle but ultimately every barrier they put in our way will further weaken the union.
To us – the voters, Westminster sometimes appears to be all about what happens inside the Chamber. It isn’t, as much, perhaps more work, is done in the committee rooms and so-forth.
Prime Minister’s Questions takes up approximately half an hour per week; it is “showbiz” and has little to do with the real work of the House.
Yes, turn-up, put your two questions, but, don’t expect too-much to come of these. Similarly, Scottish Questions is a bit of a side-show.
I see a previous post mentions that questions to the SoSfS should be about matters which come under his remit. With so-many Scottish matters now devolved to Holyrood, this might be a chance to demonstrate how little influence on real life in Scotland he has.
Mundell isn’t the sharpest tool in the box – I am sure the SNP bloc can run rings round him every time.
But, since Scottish Questions precedes PMQs, there will be more than a few Red and Blue Tories in there early, prepared to make mischief against the SNP.
If he is re-elected Speaker, Mr Belcrow (or if he isn’t, his successor) is someone the SNP must cultivate. Get the Speaker to properly discharge his duties to the House, by allowing ALL shades of political opinion to be heard, and the SNP can hurt the two main parties.
Upset him, that job gets a bit harder.
Angus Robertson, Stuart Hosie and Wee Eck need to be Sir Alex Ferguson, Sir Matt Busby and Willie Shankley, rather than George Burley, Craig Levein and Berti Vogts when it comes to managing our side in London.
By-elections depend on MP’s dying, getting ill, defrauding, becoming bankrupt or a criminal (with a sentence) conviction. They can be dismissed from their Party. Many of them should be in jail but use the Official Secrets Act conceal their crimes and keep them secret. There is a code of practice for MP’s and a Ministerial Code, which they break with impunity. Thatcher broke the Ministerial Code, and kept the evidence secret under the 30 year Official Secrets Act. The McCrone Report was kept secret for political advantage. MP’s can vote against their Party’s policy on principle. (not a wise career move)
Criminal convictions mean they have to resign.
Whoops! Posted too-quickly.
A wee bit of Ally MacLeod’s swagger, if not his tactical nous, might help too.
There is a definite underplaying of what happened last Thursday in the UK media. Watching the BBC yesterday they only mentioned the 56 arriving at Westminster after Tory cabinet reshuffle, Labour’s problems, Farage and EU referendum.
There seemed to be an air of ‘sure there’s 56 of them but there’s also a Tory majority, so what can they do’. One BBC reporter suggested that the SNP being an effective opposition at Westminster would actually strengthen the Union, like that on its own would be enough for Scots, they really don’t know or are trying to avert what’s coming.
Should “Scottish Labour” decide to be a party independent of UK Labour where would that leave Mr Murray- as a UK Labour MP?
Frenchgate? Yes we need clarification of Who Dunnit. Mundell, Carmichael, or both have a case to answer.
Didn’t Carmichael state some time back that he was retiring at the next election – of last Thursday,or have I not been paying sufficient attention?
@yoda,
People voted against labour and for the SNP for hope and a future. The Ian murray result was a 1 in 59 chance.
( aided and abetted by the msm and a spurious smear campaign) good luck next time!
I think Holyrood is starting to look bare of Labour MSP’s already.
I am not sure we can lose here. The two stooges talking while 56 SNP MPs watch will make for surreal TV. It will look like a lock out and play to the argument that we need independence.
Mudell’s dismissive attitude to Scotland is on record and that is a gift too. Murray is almost as permanently angry as Murphy and that should be entertaining too. I can imagine Mundell doing his head in as much as ours.
We live in interesting times.
If they lock us out of third party status we should just go straight to another referendum 😉
The other annoying bit spouted by Fluffy this morning (and Ive heard it from other Tory’s) is that Scotland will be the ‘most devolved government in the world’
I beg to differ, even with all of the Smith Commission proposals being enacted and any other window dressing items that the unionists ‘deem’ acceptable. Scotland will absolutely NOT be the most devolved government in the world.
I would say that Canadian provinces have more power, one being that the provincial governments keep all tax revenue raised from their own natural resources, including oil and gas!
Perhaps Stuart, who has a gift for doing such things (can I have my fiver now Stu?), could put together a graphic illustration comparing what Scotland has, what Scotland is being offered and what Scotland actually needs in comparison to , for example the province of Labrador?
This might bring it home that we are being fed crap from Fluffy
Bill Hume at 9.27
That’ll be the narrative in the “Scottish” Sun. It’s started on page two this morning
A Home Rule Bill for Ireland was going through. The 1WW interrupted proceedings. That brought the troubles. Westminster actions did cause it.
This is different situation a Home Rule Bill for Scotland is not on the statute book yet.
Scotland is not Ireland. it is a different situation. In Ireland at that time there was not Universal Suffrage. People in Scotland are in a stronger position for going through the Ballot Box. They have the vote.
Most of Westminster work is done in Committee. Nicola & Co will keep us informed. Question Time is just an embarrassing farce, anyway. Not too important. Comedy Gold.
That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country
Yoda, Look again. You will see that the SNP won 56 seats in every part of Scotland. Inner Cities, rural suburbs, Farmland, Highlands and Islands. In the three seats they did not win the came a very close second. There is not a square inch of Scotland where the SNP are not a force.
The SNP are our country 🙂
….or did you mean England? That would be silly, I don’t live there and the SNP do not stand in that country.
Well well, David Mundell and Ian Murray now have to earn their pay. The spotlight is on and they will be slaughtered. They just aren’t up to the job. Seriously, they aren’t and this will become painfully apparent in due course. The only uncertainty is which of these useless buffoons is going to drop a serious clanger first?
I need to order some more popcorn.
An alternative Scottish Questions sounds is an excellent idea, highlighting the farcical democratic deficit of two politicians from defeated parties ‘debating’.
Well, I can’t say I’m the least bit surprised at this.But it just shows how these thick unionists think they can carry on as before. That’s fine though,we are all her watching and listening. You obviously learned nothing from your wipeout, so, you will get another one next May at Holyrood.
I have every confidence in our Westminster team. Angus Roberston,Stewart Hosie, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil and the wily old fox himself. These guys know how the system works and they’re not daft. We need to let things settle and see how it pans out.
Two thing that stand out for me now. 1 independence is on the way, the union is dead. 2 The Labour party in Scotland is finished, they are too arrogant and indeed too stupid too understand what we have told them. Tough. Bye bye, we won’t miss you at all.
@fraise says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:30 am:
.
“If anything you would be better to watch the pandas. Or is it Polar bears now? There would be more action than at Scottish questions. Lots of hot air and no substance.”
Aye! Fraise, it’s eating all those bamboo shoots that causes all the hot air and no substance.
I’ll get my coat.
BTW Stuart should you not take a well earned rest now the election is over? Miliband has gone to Ibiza apparently, so don’t go there.
England has just woken up to the fact that there are around 100 liberal peers in the lords that they can’t get rid of and who can all make life very difficult for the torys.
I could not find on the parliamentuk website any info regarding the rules and procedures for Scottish Question Time.
So I emailed them asking if they could provide me with a link to the relevant sources.
I’ll let you know what comes back – if anything.
But I am already looking forward to this cross between Twin Peaks and Monty Python.
Thanks Andy.
I’ve just been listening to Christine Hamilton on “The Wright Stuff” putting forward her reasons for Britain leaving the EU. Every argument she comes up with could easily be applied to Scotland. We (Britain) are a sovereign state. We don’t need mummy to look after us. There’s a big world out there, etc. They just don’t get it where Scotland is concerned do they?
According to Mundell, the Scot’s overwhelmingly voted for the SNP, but for stronger Scottish representation at WM, not on an Indy Ref#2 agenda.
If we are honest, he perhaps may have a point considering as NS kept stating that (and I para-phrase) “this election is for a stronger voice for Scotland at a UK level, not about independence from the UK. We the SNP, seek to be inclusive within the UK at this election”.
I’m sure, we know, we secured a lot of disenchanted ‘No’ Labour voters through this approach.
Now given the hurdles that our ‘56’ are going to face with the existing conventions of WM, not least a system designed around a dominating UK level two-party system, it will be just a matter of watching and waiting as the frustration levels build both within the SNP WM contingent, but more important, within the engaged and observing Scottish voter.
This latter point will in turn, I’m sure, start to sway a lot of the insecure ‘No’ voters (those who want a strong SNP WM presence, but haven’t been convinced about independence) to start and reflect more questioningly but positively towards the independence viewpoint.
The time will eventually arrive when there are far too many people who are so-far unconvinced, those who have struggled to doubt the protection of UK inclusivity, those people will start to voice their new conviction that Scotland cannot remain as a part of the now exposed arrogant and broken WM / UK system.
Any isolation of the majority Scottish voice at WM will be one of the most destructive Unionist agendas and will do more for our cause than anything we could manage.
As frustrating as it is for all of us, we must play the game of ‘slowly slowly catchy monkey’. Take the lead for NS & AS, they know what is required.
In consideration of the above, I hope very much that the SNP put in bold large font in their Holyrood 2016 manifesto that Indy Ref#2 will be sought.
And if the SNP are indeed returned in the majority, then after all that has been discussed, argued, debated, twisted and obfuscated before, during and after Indy Ref#1, this will be their mandate to take us forward again and this time, win our freedom from the UK shackles.
Crowdfunding time again folks.
£20k should be enough. That’ll keep Murphy in post and away from the benefit office, at least until next May’s election.
Wings Envoy in Eastwood. Let’s just pay him…
The good news since last Thursday is that Murphy remains as branch office leader of Labour in Scotland, and Ian Murray has said he is against the formation of an independent Labour Party in Scotland. This is good because SLAB are never really going to recover without becoming more than just a branch office. The Scottish Tories never changed radically after their 1997 rout, and were only saved by PR in Holyrood.
Early indications are that SLAB have learned absolutely nothing over the last decade, and we can expect the same old SNP bad to dominate their rhetoric very shortly, and to resume at full blast.
Y’know, there are ways and means we can contribute to this. I don’t believe the Scottish Office is any way a constructive entity towards Scotland – it’s our leash, if anything. Our previous Secretary of State, Alastair Carmichael, simply towed his party and the Tory line (Something nearly indistinguishable, to be perfectly honest.)
It’s an insult to democracy that the sole Conservative seat Scotland voted is now representing us. The Scottish Office should not have more weight when there are 56 SNP seats that actually represent Scotland – we are not a Tory country.
The unacceptable situation of the past re: Scottish Questions was only possible because the Labour Party MPs were complicit in allowing it. It suited them.
I expect the SNP to refuse to play the Westminster game, and this is one aspect of it which will require their immediate attention, and action. With their overwhelming mandate fresh in the minds of voters, it’s a case of striking while the iron is hot.
At the very first Scot Questions there must be a visible rejection of this cosy Con/Lab pact. Whether that extends to walking out en masse or other similar disruption, will be a matter for Angus Roberston – but the SNP must ACT on behalf of those who have placed their trust in them and ensure that Scotland’s voice is indeed heard.
I’d council against playing silly buggers too soon. As has been stated before, let them get in the door and see how things pan out. I had a robust debate with an English friend who is absolutely convinced the SNP are going down there with a grievance and to “bugger things up”, ie knacker the “English” economy. Even pointing out the arithmetic and that it would be of no tactical advantage to demonstrate an inability to work in government or being otherwise unprofessional didn’t seem to convince him.
We need to make sure we don’t give the unionists any ammunition to use next year so we will need to play along with the game just now.
Anyway Members for any constituency can ask questions and this is our way in. As is sweet talking the Speaker. Also with the additional exposure that they should get as the third party they can stand up against the more egregious Tory policies. Assuming of course that the media reports this, this should enhance our position.
Yeah, they can go back to business as usual. I wouldn’t advise it, but its their choice as is just how long the union continues in this fashion.
We said our piece last week, let’s here their answer and whatever it is they can be absolutely sure that the Scottish electorate is watching and listening.
It’s time to run the Tories out of Scotland. No MPs, no MSPs, no MEPs, no councilors, no Scottish Tories.
They are Enemy No.1
The SNP Group will get two questions at UK Westminster Question Time, every week. There are certain rules and regulations, courtesies, but under Parliamentary Privilege MP’s can say what they like.
Interesting times.
“Wish you put a bit of a warning that the “120,000 more votes…” link was a download link and not a link to another article or website. Not that I have any problem with the content of it, but people don’t like things downloading on their computers without full knowledge of that’s what they’re doing. It’s just good online etiquette, that’s all.”
I haven’t found a way to link to that file as a page, sorry.
michael c @10.11 am, great post, and reflects my thoughts.
Have faith, peeps, remember Alex resigned last year, because it was a strategic move, although many crowed it was because he was defeated – nothing of the sort. Is this a man who acted defeated even a week later?
He can do more behind the Chair, and even in my experience of office politics, that is always a good place to play your cards from. In all the group pics, Alex has been careful to stand at the back, he knows how to play this game.
I was thinking last night how engaged we are now with those that went down. My local MP now has his FB page up, and a pic was tweeted of him reading the rulebook (he’s a solicitor)
I was on a page and commented whatever happens Chris Law must not cut off his pony tail, as some old fogey had commented on it.
The page Admin came on and said, knowing Chris, the pony will be staying. 🙂
@Yoda says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:36 am:
“That’s what you get for voting for a nationalist party that is only interested in one part of our country.”
Define what you mean by, “Our Country”, Yoda? I wasn’t aware you and I shared the same country? It is regrettable enough we may share a KINGDOM. without actually also sharing a country.
Seems you may be as poorly educated as the posh boys in the United KINGDOM Parliament who are really so ignorant of the British Archipelago’s geography, history and culture.
I expect it stems from their un-natural family life that sees them enter the English Public School system while still in their formative years as their also emotionally stunted parents slope shoulders by bringing up their own progeny at arms length. Thus encouraging the homosexuality, sexually abusive and stunted emotional wellbeing so evident among certain sections of both legislative houses of Westminster.
Presumably this Murray will be taking instructions from Murphy so this Westminster panto gets curiouser & curiouser and as Murphy always insists on consulting his constituents when the questioning gets tough, he can’t use that excuse any longer as he hasn’t got any. 🙂
How can any private individual, elected by nobody, claim to exert influence in either Holyrood or Westminster.
Angus Roberston,Stewart Hosie, Pete Wishart, Angus MacNeil and the wily old fox himself.
What a team – no wonder the enemies of Scotland are bricking it.
(and quite a few of the “rookies” are no pushovers, either!)
@Yoda says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:38 am:
“Tactical voting occurred in Edinburgh South …”
Sheeesh!
The EU Union and the UK Union are completely different. Don’t confuse them. Different rights, contribution, responsibilities, aims, economic outcomes. Totally different. The only similarity is the word Union. Do some research. The EU benefits Scotland(UK) The UK Union does not.
We shall soon be getting the Ballot for Private Members’ Bills and I hope that one or more of the 56 are successful.
Can I suggest the following in no particular order of merit as subjects for said Bills:-
Establish in law the permanence of the Holyrood Parliament with no right for WM to abolish it or establish Direct Rule.
16 & 17 year olds to have the vote in ALL future elections.
Establish in law the right of Holyrood to call referenda without having to get the permission of WM.
Devolution of Broadcasting.
Any further suggestions welcome.
Re: Robert Peffers “Thus encouraging the homosexuality”
I agree with much that you say in your post BUT being Gay is not dysfunctional and should not be included in your list of the sad damage wrought on Private School boarding pupils, and how it ultimately impacts on their inability to run any country with empathy and compassion.
gus1940 says:
12 May, 2015 at 11:46 am
Any further suggestions welcome.
A whole suite of anti-austerity proposals
End prescription charges in rUK
End student fees
No renewal of Trident etc
HST all the way to Scotland
No chance of success, but show them up by making them vote against these. Boy will they hate us!
I think we have to be careful and pick and choose the fights we have carefully.
With the elections coming for Holyrood and then the EU referendum which would be held just one year later the SNP MP’s have to keep our powder dry to be sure to allow them to dig the whole that they seem to want to dig for themselves whilst they stand at the top and fill them in with large sized SNP shovels!
It’s going to be political overload for some. Many may have lost interest and THAT is why sites such as this are important not to lose any focus on the puplic at large.
Fight the war .. not the battle!
Murphy’s political career is over, except an Independent. The irony. Wonder how that would go? Took the poison chalice and has been throw to the wolves. A good example to the rest of the lying troughers. He should do something useful. Take up voluntary work in a food bank. If they would have him. Likely not. Made too many enemies on the way. Many will be glad to see the back of the vacant coupon.
Presumably now that Mundell has his feet under the table, he’s about to open the MemoGate file, and tell all.
C’mon fluffy what did that LibDumb get up to behind your back?
Oh, you were part of it too…
On topic – kinda. Really a bit of shameless but irresistible schadenfreude, Wullie Bain being locked out of Westminster from 46.28
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05vhz89/newsnight-11052015
Why isn’t Miliband taking up his duties in Westminster, for which he receives remuneration of public money. This is not holiday time and Westminster is not in (generous) recess. Another reward for failure?
I do agree that there is a need to counter this “most developed parliament” pish that Cameron et al love to trot out. He never gives any further examples of WHY this is so, it is just a soundbite.
Amazing to think the SNP are now taking over the third-party offices which must have been held by the Lib Dems for donkey’s years, before that the Labour Party, I presume. When a regional party is part of the big troika, you know something is seriously stirring and this is a good example of any why indy is simply a question of time.
As Labour plans to move to the right, I see big chances for the SNP as being the only effective opposition to austerity. I can see us winning a lot of love among the North English cities, who are left with no one to speak for them, and progressives in general (sorry, I do not see the Greens being able to fill the gap yet).
Haven’t read most of the comments here yet, but just to say that I do wonder how much sympathy we will get from disenfranchised English voters, because I am seeing quite a bit of stuff online from change.org, 38degrees and now a care2 petition demanding PR, bit late but also 38degrees putting out figures which make it look very unfair to them that the SNP have so many seats in WM.
They will not of course think on how unfair the whole system has been to Scotland for 300 years, as well as being told that we are subsidy junkies. I think those petitioning should be supporting the SNP to have their voice as it’s their only chance for democracy at the moment.
I fear their energy on PR etc is futile, misdirected and counter productive however, I have said as much to these organisations, it’s all we can do.
Cameras allowed in to Camerons first meeting of the Cabinet
An exercise in PR which if you haven’t seen it was the most breakfast spewingly sickening piece of Ralph toileting yet
Not Recommended viewing
On another more cheerily comic note I hear there’s a new Petition under way in the North of England to join Scotland when we become Independent
It’s called “Scotland take us with you” or something similar
They want to redraw the border a good deal further down south to take them in
Maybe some of you guys who do the twittery stuff can find it
Looking ahead, the next UK election is probably 5 years away, but it is vital that these 56 MPs build up strong local reputations in their communities, and avoid any scandals. A chance to hold the balance of power in the future is the real opportunity that was unfortunately missed this time because of Labours poor performance in England.
It would be good advertising to see prominent constituency offices rented in relatively high traffic streets, not somewhere off the beaten track.
O/t
Another member if Labour’s branch office shadow cabinet has resigned. Rowley(?) – think that is the name.
Also to put things in perspective’ another large earthquake in Nepal, 7.3 on Richter scale.
Given the enormous workloads now upon them..can we expect Mundell and Murray to ‘pair’ and save wasting time on silly things like actually listening to arguments and voting in the house.
OT..one thing thats been irking me since Murphy exit…was the “Jim drinks from Irn Bru can” photo a fit up job..any way of finding out if Barrs helping his campaign/career?
In the Herald (can’t archive it sorry not working)
Murphy suffers another blow as Rowley quits Scottish Labour’s shadow cabinet
Jim Murphy has suffered another blow after Alex Rowley stepped down as Scottish Labour’s local government spokesman at Holyrood.
—————————————————————-
I pointed out that Rowley was shaking his head at the back during last FMQ’s before the election as Keiza cereal Brek machined gunned her may through her script. He must be appalled at the company he is in.
PS:
How ironic that we may see & hear the former SoS for Scotland get to throw a wee keepy to the new SoS for scotland to gleefully hit out of the park. 🙂
————————————————————–
Help spelling for Keepy ;kepie ( lob ball) cannie spell it! 🙁
My mother (god bless her tartan socks) drove the Scots out of me when I was younger, I never realised…not too late though.
According to Wikipedia Mundel has a majority of 798 votes, Carmichael 817 votes and Murray 316 votes. a total of 1,931.
“They make a desert and call it peace.”
six votes to one , yup, sounds about right! and stand bye for the donkey serenade that awaits our new MPs when they make their maiden speeches. Its a gift to the home rule campaign.
Sorry for going O/T folks but following the recent resignation of Neil Findlay from the Shadow cabinet on Saturday guess what … we have another resignation. 🙂
https://twitter.com/ScotIndyDebate/status/598085114611015680/photo/1
Boy this Jim Murphy fella certainly knows how to keep a tight reign on his shadow cabinet doesn’t he? 😀
I love the panda toy protest. Maybe they should get three panda toys each and stick the last liberal, tory and labour MP’s faces on them.
The SNP group could easily ask one question and then when that person gives an answer to the reply be interrupted by the other 58 by giving way to add comment and then taking up all the time allotted to Scottish Questions. I think the rules will change.
Elected following a self contrived state of terror and fear and now in a position where he cannot be removed.
Seldom seen but has only One known representative.
Jim Murphy is Palpatine of The Sith
The Smith Commission will get implemented. After that who knows what is going to happen. The Smith Commission is basically the Calman Commission Part 2, and like Calman has now been completely overtaken by events (namely the general election results). Everyone knows this and if the UK government and Scottish unionists say no more powers after Smith is implemented, then they really are up shit creek. Not least because there is a very good chance that the Smith Commission recommendations are going to create ‘gearing’ problems for the budget at Holyrood.
Cant we just boycott it and leave them to talk to each other ,and laugh publicly at the farce of it ?
or we could turn up in costume, kilts and c u jimmy wigs and shout hoots mon all the way through it occasionally bursting into a highland fling,well if they want to make it a big joke lets show them real Scottish humour and take the total piss out their parliament and see how far we can go before they fling us out.
Grow up westminster no wonder we want out you lot are hopeless,we have a lame duck PM that will not last the full term as he already said he will not stand for a 3rd term ,Boris is brought in as MP and handed the sacred Tory dagger ,EU referendum will be the catalyst ,Boris PM
Labour are running about with their heads up their backsides doing their usual talking to themselves and look like moving back into blairite new labour not realizing it was this that got them gubbed in the first place ,ugly leadership contest lots of knifes to be stuck in each others backs,no obvious leader talent.
Indyref2 please Nicola we have got to get away from these loonies.
Man in jar- not true. Unfortunately 6 question boy won by almost 3,000.
If both Panda parties’ single MP/SoS are as useless as they appear, then an overlord with no legitimacy in Scotland dictating to us every 6 weeks can only be a good thing. Scotland is awake and aware and not in the mood to be tellt any longer.
If these guys are that inept, what happens if they mess up to the extent they have to be replaced?
@Lesley-Anne
Good find!
PS: Cochrane!
The SNP will shove all of those powers into its bag marked ‘Swag’ and then say: “ Aye, but whit aboot …”.
https://archive.is/zl0RM
On Bbc Radio Scotland at 8.38am heard Hayley Millar say slightly odd to have The Secretary of State For Scotland facing off with The Labour shadow S.o S. F Scotland whilst the SNP are on the sidelines” at the time I couldn’t believe my ears………. Hope it stays this way ….will highlight The Democratic Defecit for Scotland at Westmonster
@galamcennalath says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:43 am:
“The ball is in Cameron’s court. Does he wish to retain the Union?”
Actually the ball is not really in Cameron’s court as this is quite a different ball game. It’s not Tennis but could be football. So the ball may be at Cameron’s feet but he has not, (YET), been tackled.
There are many ways to hit Cameron’s slim majority and he must continually guard against a vote of no confidence or conversely votes of confidence. This is going to be a real double-edged sword for it could also be a Labour Party weakness.
As labour are the official opposition, to be effective, they must be seen to oppose the Government. As they are fewer in numbers they would, on their own, fail in all opposition and give the Tories a free run. This is where both Labour & Tory become vulnerable to the SNP’s actions.
Labour dare not oppose for the sole reason of opposing, (The Wee Willie Bain Principle), That is opposing just for the sake of it, knowing they will not defeat their opponent. This is where the SNP could take control and make the result what the SNP want.
Now remember Nicola has said she will do what is best for Scotland but also what is best for the UK but also warned that the former SNP policy of NOT voting on England Only Matters depends upon how Scottish Matters are being handled. She can bargain with both Labour and Tory every time Labour oppose the Government.
Then we have such things as the Queen’s speech that Cameron needs to continue in office. If Labour vote against it that Nicola again can decide if we get a Labour or Tory Government AFTER a new election.
If Labour chicken out of opposing Tory bills then the public sees Labour as a waste of time so they must be an effective opposition or suffer in England as they have in Scotland.
Not to forget that the SNP can stage a vote of no Confidence at any time and if Labour do not vote with them Labour again are seen as weal and ineffectual.
So in the end it doesn’t matter who is in power if you hold the balance and Dave’s first action is to cut the benefits ceiling. Will Labour oppose? Sajid Javid says there will be, “Significant Changes”, in strike laws. The Unions oppose it – will Labour?
That’s the Establishment tightrope that both Government and opposition start walking today. One or both could fall off for neither has a safety net.
Meanwhile the BBC are under attack by the Government and Andy Coulson’s Scottish Trial is about to begin.
We live in interesting times.
This is no game guys!
This is about how much credence is given by the so-called Westminster elite to the democratically elected MPs from a solely Scottish party who’s raison d’être is the Independence and prosperity of our great country and the wellbeing of it’s citizens.
This is the litmus test if you will, which could never be completed with 49 Slab MPs, because they were there solely for the purpose of making up the numbers to help elect a London Labour Government and toeing the party line of that London Labour party.
Let’s have none of the quite common, “I’m not an SNP supporter but!” Be proud of this party as they are doing what no other party in Scotland can or are willing to do.
We have an SNP governmentwhich will hopefully be re-elected in 2016 and now we have a SNP majority at Westminster.
This, allied to the possible full devolvement of all matters bar Defence and foreign affairs will be the catalyst for full independence perhaps in the next ten years or so.
Keep the heid as they say and keep exposing the fear-mongering lies and the deliberate misleading of the Scottish citizenry as it is going to be a long drawn out battle for that most cherished right of self determination!
God speed.
I suggest the SNP tag amendments onto every bill in the commons. Lots and lots of amendments.
If the clowns want to deny democracy to Scotland then you can deny them theirs by making it very difficult to do business. Quid pro Quo.
Now that we’re all singing from the same hymn-sheet as it were, I do wish the Celtic fans would desist from taunting the Aberdeen support for voting NO at the Referendum, such was the sherricking at the weekend that one irate Dons fan lost it completly, threw caution to the wind and his pie at the Celtic captain who said he would have eaten it but the manager would not have been very pleased. 🙂
If Cameron is actually going to give us the “most-devolved” then given that status us currently held by Greenland it’s going to have to be full independence. Otherwise he’ll need to match that relationship which means implementing full Devo-Max. Sort of a transitional state to full independence with an implicit currency union.
Re Neil Hay losing to Ian Murray following the smear campaign orchestrated by Labour. I do think he ought to get advice about suing for defamation. His remarks were completely misrepresented by Labour. The campaign advisers circulated details almost immediately and there are questions about how they identified the owner of the Twitter account. It has caused real damage to Neil Hay both reputation and income.
Also we have yet to hear the outcome of the inquiry into memo-gate. It may well be that Mr Carmichael will have to resign.
It would be a shame to lose two of the remaining unionist MPs, but not much.
alan milburn appears to be advocating wholesale reform of nhs on daily politics. health minister 99-03 or so. prob vested interests but still worrying how openly he supports the tory agenda. in fact as usual, the entire panel has consensus on the inviability of the nhs. even though it’s the world’s most efficient health service. troubling. on the other hand Murphy was given the all clear to remain in post by said panel.
Ah, the LOCK OUT that precedes THE STING.
Great movie.
@Scott Borthwick says: 12 May, 2015 at 9:49 am:
… We need to think about what issues we want raised and lobby him to do so. He might prove more useful to us than you think.”
You also need to look at making sure he has lots of things to deal with in the constituency. Many questions on constituency issues to make certain he needs a really good and efficient constituency staff. Make sure his office expenses are spent and his staff are on their toes. Every minute spent on constituency mattes is a minute not spent on hitting the SNP parliamentary business. MPs have stood down from overwork.
Intresting but not surprising to see opposition parties aggreing on most indy questions and the level of fear and uncetianty being promoted at such an early stage of the independence campaign.
ironic that the high speed broadband question wasnt going to be addresed untill 2015 giving rural areas less access to sites like this one untill after the referendum.
@Joemcg says: 12 May, 2015 at 10:02 am:
“So much for Nicola’s election mantra to make Scotland’s voice heard. It’s been blown out of the water immediately.”
Pish!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32694028
BBC Scotland’s vote Slabour 2020 campaign continues a pace. Eleanor Bradford, she say should have, could have, would have voted creepy Jim for his 100000000 nurses, you ingrates.
“During the general election campaign, both the Scottish Labour Party and the Scottish Conservatives promised to employ an extra 1,000 nurses in Scotland. However, Mrs Rushforth said the problem is a severe shortage of qualified staff.”
Just in case you’re not catching the UKOK Bradford propaganda, she highlighted her script, Scottish Labour and Scottish Conservatives
@ The Man in the Jar
Murray’s majority was 316 in 2010, over the Lib Dems. His predecessor Nigel Griffiths had retired under a cloud and Labour was apparently not really expecting to hold onto the seat. In the event, he scraped in.
This time, alas, his majority has increased to 2,637, taking the unionist total to 4,252.
i’m fed up with this unionist lovebombing.
the snp now have a legitimate right to be asking scottish questions.
can’t you just feel the love, brothers and sisters.
🙂
I see Guido’s put Rowley’s letter up in full as well; and he’s onto McTernan. Don’t think Guido will let that bone go.
I guess we should have got 59 seats before the SNP has any say in Westminster?What is it about Ian Murray,even members of my own branch we’re saying “he’s a good man”.Bollocks!
*If* Mundell & Murray obstruct democratically elected MPs, I suspect it will once again draw the attention of both UN & CoEu invigilators to a democratic deficit in Scotland [& likely one in Wales/NI too].
Ultimately that could force WM to look at reform which would be to the benefit of all nations within the Union. So currently their refusal to work with SNP doesn’t worry me much. As someone once said “Bring it on!”
@Robert Peffers
Actually the UK is a country.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, commonly known as the United Kingdom (UK) or Britain, is a sovereign state in Europe. Lying off the north-western coast of the European mainland, the country includes the island of Great Britain—a term also applied loosely to refer to the whole country—the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland and many smaller islands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom
Sorry for O/T but Tom Gordon has managed to find out what the new logo for Labour in Scotland is. 😉
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/598089538288881664/photo/1
This is as nothing compared to what Labour will get up to in the Lords re any extra powers. We have of course mo representation in the Lords and this interference must be deemed unconstitutional.
Brent still creeping up $65.25.
Robert-lol at pish! One question? So it’s not been silenced a wee bit? No? Capella-I second that. The unfounded and trumped up smears on Mr Hay has left a bad taste and ultimately cost him his job. Politics is a dirty game but surely when a person’s income has been affected with lies something needs to be done.
http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views/politics/salmond-lined-up-for-role-as-top-spy-chief-1.873679
It doesn’t sound like Scottish questions at Westminster is a particularly worthwhile exercise so the best policy is probably to largely ignore it. Possibly even boycott it. Why give these people an audience?
Our First Minister, Alex Salmond etc will absolutely have war-gamed the kind of outcome we got from last Thursday. These are extremely clever people who have waited on their chance a long, long time.
We elected them and invested them with our trust and we must now trust them to carry out their task waiting watchfully on outcomes.
Must be vigilant to make sure the Scottish electorate are aware of this.
The way that place works things cannot happen as quickly as we would like. Time for some faith.
Already, the tories have appointed a total numptie to the toom tabard post of SoS Scotland. Personally, I think Cameron has thrown him to the wolves. There are competent tory peers (however distasteful that would have sounded) who could have taken this slightly meaningless post with Mundell trying to fend stuff off in the house as deputy. Baroness Goldie for one.
We have to keep our trust in thise we have elected and in the FM directing them and play the watchful waiting game.
Socrates MacSporran , @ 10.32 says
” …Mr Belcrow (or if he isn’t, his successor) is someone the SNP must cultivate…”
Hopefully by getting his name correct for one thing!!!
Debbie-could the adulation for Murray be because he is a Hearts fan? Remember how tribal football supporters are. That’s all I have heard from some people “he’s a good Hertz man” pathetic really.
‘Holey’ Trinity of Mundell, Carmichael, Murray, trying to play God when their decimated parties and policies are shot full of holes…
Just another example -as if any were needed – of the weird procedures and anachronisms that dictate the way we are governed.
Ian Murray should not present a problem. If a YES sticker is attached to wherever he sits -I mean whatever bench he sits on – he will go into a long term sulk.
As for Eleanor Bradford I suggest you do what most viewers do and recognise her incessant anti SNP propaganda for what it is.
In a word Rev. Stu. I’m not feeling the love but some painful extraction of it from them might help!
The answer would be for the SNP to be designated as the official opposition for the duration of Scottish Questions. That way they would get to ask the most questions, which is only fair given they have 56 of the 59 MPs.
While we’re at it, clearly the SNP should chair the Scottish Affairs Committee. I nominate Alex Salmond.
I posted this in the wee sma’ hoors…don’t know if many have picked up on it, perhaps because it’s not relevant, I think it may have some bearing on the lead up to our elections next year…
Cameron ‘making plans’ to bring the EU referendum forward to 2016.
Talk about ‘election’ fatigue’! I don’t trust him a bit, and though he claims this move is to avoid a ‘politically dangerous clash with the French and German elections of 2017’. I could see the potential to somehow ‘scupper’ the momentum of the SNP in some way with this too.
While all eyes and all media are on EU build up, people’s attention is drawn away from the immediate issues in Scotland.
Am I just paranoid, is this now my new normal since the Indyref. So be it 🙂
https://archive.is/acyJX
Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/alex-salmond-calls-for-scotland-office-to-be-abolished-in-wake-of-snp-general-election-landslide-1.873866
@yoda
‘am the laird o’ Udny’s feel , fa’s feel are e?
@ Yoda:
Talking bollocks you are.
@Joemcg
at 12:35pm
Thanks for the correction. That’s why I referenced Wikipedia. It did seem a bit extreme. If they missed a zero off the end of Murrays total that would make his majority 3,160 and when total is adjusted it makes the total unionist vote majority of 4,775 which looks more like a figure that I have read elsewhere.
Anyone got more reliable figures?
I guess it’s how the system works. Just as 50% of the vote gets 96% of the MPs.
@Training Day says: 12 May, 2015 at 10:15 am:
“A Mundell and Murray ‘SNP bad’ tag team playing asinine games and mocking the Scots who voted for the SNP in a pointless ritual openly derided by English MPs?”
Another way round the matter is to ignore Scottish Questions and ask the Scottish Questions at PM’s Questions or Treasury Questions or whatever. There cannot be a single Westminster Scottish matter that is totally Scottish for if it did it would fall under the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood. It will annoy the hell out of overgrown Schoolboy Dave and the SNP questioners will not be the same pushovers as Miliband and Clegg.
The simple wording of a question can put it under the PM’s Question Time remit. No one at Westminster knows the arcane rules better than Oor Eck. They ignore him at their own risk. The man is not down there, NOT taking the Westminster leadership from Angus, but sticking on the back benches for nothing. He is not your average back seat passenger in political situations.
Just look at Eck’s face in the group photos – does that look like the face of someone not enjoying the game? Mark my words – when they least expect it Salmond will shock them.
I read earlier (somewhere) that Marwick has had talks with the Scottish Party leaders re: How long the term of the next SG will run after 2016.
3yrs or 5yrs as the current date after 2016 will clash with the next UK GE 2020. Answers on a fag packet please!
It’s all go on the politics front is it not. 🙂
This image of only one Tory MP on the government benches and one Labour guy asking the bulk of the questions while sitting alone on opposite benches and 56 SNP MPs and Mr Carmichael sitting quietly behind is laughable.Of course,they,both Tories and Labour will no doubt draft in others of their parties who were born in Scotland,the same thing Labour used to critise the Tories for previously, I think. It should be broadcast live and worldwide to expose how shallow and inflexible Westminster is. Democracy,eh? It’s going to look ridiculous.
How Labour must wish they hadn’t worked for the Tories for the last 3 years against their own electorate,how the LibDems must wish they hadn’t worked for the Tories against their Scottish electorate for the last 5 years.
As for blaming the SNP for their losses in Scotland,I seem to remember reading that it was alleged to be the case that Labour activists campaigned for the Tories for the cost of dinner,but I don’t remember seeing it on telly at all as a reason for the SNP landslide.
We all saw the pictures of Labour party activists at the champagne swilling vote no thanks celebrations. Also,they seemed to be the party that put less powers forward in their devo nano caper while Mr Brown promised home rule and near federalism if voters voted no.
Labour MPs and other party apparatchiks making speeches and other appearances at Conservative conferences and saying the NHS is safe while folk in England were recreating marches from the past to tell the world that it isn’t didn’t help either, I’m sure.
This time next year,Scottish Labour could have been forming the first democratically elected government of an independent Scotland,with all the taxes and income from Scottish resources,securing the future for all Scots and setting an example for the gaining of freedom without first having a war.Instead,they will form the one man opposition with a whole six questions to a one man government bench.
Murphy doesn’t want Labour members speaking out about the mess Labour are in. He says that anyone who does so is disloyal.
MSP Alex Rowley disagrees – resigns from Labour’s (Holyrood) shadow cabinet and speaks out against Murphy and McTernan regardless. Good for him.
http://www.thenational.scot/politics/civil-war-rages-in-scottish-labour-msp-quits-shadow-cabinet-and-sticks-the-boot-into-murphy-and-mcternan.2882?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1431435337
WOW!
I never thought I’d see the day where a Tory Lord was backing, well as close to backing as a Tory could go, Scottish independence.
We used to say if the SNP won a majority in seats in Scotland then they could have independence.
“They got 50 per cent of the vote and 95 per cent of the seats and the reality is you have to respond to that and I think what the government needs to do is produce a white paper which that sets out how fiscal autonomy, devo-max, call it what you will, would work in practice so people are aware of the advantages and the disadvantages.
https://commonspace.scot/articles/1304/former-tory-scottish-secretary-michael-forsyth-issues-full-fiscal-autonomy-call-to-stem-march-to-independence
@The Man in the Jar / Joemcg
National has result figs of Edin South >
Lab Maj of 2637 for Murray
Murray Lab (Wxnk)- 19,293
Hay SNP (Good guy)- 16.656
🙂
@gordoz
at 2:25pm
Thanks for those figures. If I add that to the Wikipedia figures for Carmichael and Mundel it make a total unionist vote majorities by seat of 4,252 which sounds very close to other numbers that I have seen.
Pretty pathetic whatever way you look at it.
Surely we all knew this was coming.
Westminster has spent many generations ignoring Scotland even as they asset-strip its natural resources. Did people really expect that to change just by sending extra people for them to ignore?
It’s why I never really got caught up in all the excitement about the election.
Independence is the only way Scotland will extricate itself from beneath Westminster’s thumb.
All that happened was we managed to severely weaken one of the multiple enemies the establishment has set against us. It’s an achievement to be proud of, but not the one we needed…
Why did the Greens field a candidate against Mundell ?
That alone makes me aware once again that the Greens are a UK Unionist Party with a Scottish Branch.
I will not be voting for them ever.
As far as Mundell’s public statement about Scotland, how will the Public know ?
They will not here it from the BBC or MSM.
And thanks again Orkney.
@deewal 2.35
TROLL ALERT
Perhaps, the single question directed at Mundell at the first meeting of Scottish Questions should be, “Given that the Secretary of State for Scotland has publicly declared that Scotland no longer exists, could the honourable gentleman explain to this House as to why he is here representing an apparently non-existent country?”
I am sure we would all like to hear his response.
Let the piss take begin! 😉
I’ve just read over on Twitter that the FAMOUS 56 are attaching their new Westminster passes to YES Scotland lanyards. 😀
Oh and this from Pete Wishart. 😛
Teasing English based Scots Tories that if they’re appointed deputy to lone panda @DavidMundellDCT they’ll be dubbed the ‘bamboo carrier’.
As someone else on here said,I pass the posh Edinburgh morningside area daily and the plethora of vote Murray posters in £1 million plus and upward homes were truly a sight to behold, labour the working class party.
I’m thoroughly looking forward to a bit more scrutiny of these ‘Ask the Panda’ sessions purely because of the sheer bizarre dynamic of it all – 1 v 1 v 56.
If the failure to recognise the SNP as the official opposition in Scotland actually happens, another bungee holding the union goes snap!
Even if the chamber questions don’t change, there are now 56 sources of written questions to run the little bastard off his feet – I hope Fluffy’s in shape.
And of course, it should now become chamber etiquette to address the panda properly – now is that Sunshine, or Sweetie? Or Yon Wank?
What this really highlights is how pointless the Scottish Office now is.
I can tell you how at least some of the people in Edinburgh South feel ….. we feel that those who were duped into the ‘I’m Mr Nice Guy’ line from Murray and his people need to have a serious look at themselves.
It’s the same old NuLabour tact of ‘if you keep saying it often enough people will believe it’. Murray backed it up with unprovable figures that were never contested. Of that, Neil Hay and the SNP are guilty. To his credit, Hay remained with the case for a better Scotland and a stronger SNP (Not one I necessarily subscribe to but that’s his right).
What NH is not guilty of is everything else he is accused of by a vindictive and substandard media. All lies and smears driven by a men shown to be the snakes, most of us know them to be, and aided and abetted by some vile Murray side-kicks unashamedly willing to taint a persons character for a few pennies and some prestige.
I’m tired of defending Neil Hay, yet every time I say that something else comes up, but he is a thoroughly decent guy and both WM and local politics is all the worse for him not contributing.
Hopefully he stands next year but I somehow feel that’s unlikely.
I hope Edinburgh South sees Murray for what he is now – a deceitful, greedy wee man that speaks with a forked tongue.
@ michaelc
“We have to keep our trust in those we have elected and in the FM directing them and play the watchful waiting game.”
First class advice Michael. Well said. No football fan in his right mind feels the need to run onto the park and kick the ball. Instead, he knows his role and plays his part, which is why he’s called a supporter.
Our role is to support the 56, not replace them; otherwise known as the Twelfth Man.
@Macca73 says: 12 May, 2015 at 2:04 pm:
“Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?”
C’mon, Macca73, This is Alex Salmond you are talking about. He plays Cameron like a trout on the end of a line.
If he says he want’s to do away with the Scottish Office and doesn’t want Mundell as SoS it probably means he wants Mundell in the post for some arcane reason.
Remember how he had the Unionists convinced he wanted a third question on the Referendum Paper and had them thinking it was all their idea to not have the third question.
I may be wrong but I’d say Eck is hard at work already.
Dear Rev
I am going to take a huge risk now. I am going to address you directly when, so far, you have continued to allow my interventions on WoS.
Your article is all about the apparent unfairness and holes in the democracy that may mean the voices of the 56 SNP MPs might be suppressed by some of the traditional conventions in the House of Commons and the difficulty of minority parties generally being heard when there is a government majority.
Firstly, and on the generality, the noises coming out of Westminster suggest to me that most of the Tory hierarchy, that I have heard speak on the subject since Thursday, are open to discussions taking matters further than were promised via Smith. We don’t know how Scottish Questions are going to be handled yet – bearing in mind the result in Scotland. Maybe take a breath and wait just a little while for the Parties sort these things out before you assume the worst?
Secondly, and on a specific point, there is more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole article. May I point you to page 11 of the SNP manifesto and the headline on that page.
@deewal. There was a really good SNP response in Orkney and Shetland. Carmichael got in by 800 votes. That’s unheard of. SNP usually trails LD. But there were about 1400 votes for UKIP! Must be the fisherman and EU fisheries law. The highest % vote for UKIP in Scotland at 4.6%.
@Lesley-Ann
“Let the piss take begin! ;)”
That would be fundellymundelly wrong.
@ Oneironaut
“Westminster has spent many generations ignoring Scotland even as they asset-strip its natural resources.
Independence is the only way Scotland will extricate itself from beneath Westminster’s thumb.”
May I be so bold as to ‘update’ your comment, Oneironaut. Since 2010 and the onset of ‘permanent austerity’, I believe the thumb has been replaced by a tackety boot. In every other aspect of what you say, I agree completely.
Where is David Torrance?
Torrance faint praise, if any, mixed with sniping and bitterness as usual says:
At the same time, it seems unlikely the SNP’s 56 MPs will have any genuine clout at Westminster. To have real influence, they need to be prepared to negotiate and occasionally vote with the Conservatives (as Mr Salmond did as an MP in the early 1990s), and Ms Sturgeon has made it clear that will not happen.
https://archive.is/7jCsW
@Chic – who gives a fuck ?
Having just listened again to David Mundell, I am reminded just how obnoxious, offensive and repellant he is. I find his attitude unbearable.
To think Patrick Harvie and the Greens had the opportunity to remove this odious little man, but chose instead to selfishly piss away 839 meaningless votes when Mundell had a majority of 798. I won’t be forgetting that in a hurry, but then how could I or any of us, with Mundell as Sec of State for Scotland till 2020.
@ The Man in the Jar
I tried to answer your questions about Ian Murray’s majority earlier, but the post has gone into moderation (I’ve no idea why).
The only thing I said which has not been covered by other people is that the 316 was his majority in 2010 (over the LDs). His predecessor had stood down and he was not expected to win, but he did.
(Try again to see if this post appears.)
I think the spectacle of 56 SNP MPs sitting on their hands watching Ian Murray ask half a dozen questions is absurd – I would like to see them attack Murray and Mundell’s legitimacy by ignoring them as an irrelevance.
59 would have been wonderful but the difference between say 50 and 59 is symbolic. Both count as a shedload. Ian Murray won his seat whether we like it or not and harping on about the smear campaign now is pointless. If the media hadn’t hounded Neil Hay they would have just found another candidate to demonise. We could hardly expect anything else from labour or the press.
Similarly blaming the Scottish Greens is wholly counterproductive when so many Green voters lent their votes to the SNP. Blaming voters is the labour way – not the Yes way. I thought the Greens ran a conspicuously low profile practice campaign to get the machine ready for next year. God bless them for that.
Just remember – we don’t need another SNP majority for another indyref – we need a majority of pro indy MSPs.
So we get Fluffy as SOS? I look forward to him being asked questions by Richard Arkless, SNP MP for my home town of Dumfries (and Galloway). Galloway has had a strong SNP showing in elections but not Dumfries. Never Dumfries until now.
Trust me-that was one of the greatest achievements of the election.
Regarding the EU Ref
You would think there would have to be a minimum vote limit to make the result acceptable
On political engagement England doesn’t seem to much care what happens in their country but enjoy moaning about the result a lot…It’s all the fault of those Scotch
They get free prescriptions
They get free Tuition
They get free Bus passes
They get new Hospitals
Ta Da Ta Da and on
Do you think it’s maybe never occurred to them we might have a Government that’s just a wee bitty more prudent and sensible with the cash
Oh forgot, they give us it all out of the kindness of their hearts
COZ THEY LOVE US THE MOSTEST IN THE WHOLE OF EVERYWHERE
@ call me dave
I think the Scots word you are looking for is “kepper” i.e. a ball easily caught. You can still hear older fans using it when a weak cross is directed into the box.
Slightly o/t: I see Cameron, no doubt at Murdoch’s behest, is to get tough with the “left-leaning” BBC. Any chance he might make some mischief and offer Nicky devolved broadcasting? Too Machiavellian?
Just imagine: Jackie no more, Campbell no more, Bradford no more…
Its getting very odd out there in Vote Anyone but SNP teamGB land, you’re either too left, too right, too middle, too stupid, too bigoted, too easily led, too gullible, too bigoted did I say, first past the post must go, PR favours bigots, FTP splits up happy and glorious greatest ever and blessed union, scrap Holyrood devolve to county councils, SNP now Westminster irrelevance and so on, and all because YOU, yes YOU voted SNP last week.
Also SLabour say SNP won because they ran a better campaign, which is probably they stupidest thing they’ve come up with since lunchtime.
Presumably DrUKOK actually works for a living at uni but
https://drscottthinks.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/the-snp-won-as-they-ran-a-good-campaign-and-should-be-congratulated-but-not-emulated/
Jamie Arriere @ 2.49.
“Yon Wank” – brilliant, coffee spilled all over my keyboard.
manandboy says:
12 May, 2015 at 3:29 pm
I think you are very, very wrong. If I was a Green activist/voter I would be pissed off if my Party did not put up a candidate.
Keep your anger for the Tories NOT the Greens.
@ manandboy – Patrick Harvie does not control the Green Party its members do. The overwhelming number of Green supporters in Scotland voted SNP, only the die-hard tree-huggers voted Green. There is no way those voters would have all voted SNP.
David Torrance is not only a self serving little suck up weasel he’s also a LIAR
The former first minister said no such thing
Question; Do you think this result will bring Independence closer
Answer; Yes, followed by a qualifying statement regarding manifesto and so on
Torrance’s article among others is the typical distortion of the facts that has become the hallmark of this type of gutter tripe
Question; Do you deny you beat your wife
Answer; Yes of course i do
Resulting Article; Accusations of assault and wife beating were today denied by….Whomever
He’s a little shit like the rest of them
direct from the little school of gossip mongering
can i get my money now STV or BBC or anybody
@ K1 Am I just paranoid. Yupt an your badge is ordered.
BrianDTT & Pete TC another addition to the Badge stock.
@Spout says: 12 May, 2015 at 11:49 am:
“I agree with much that you say in your post BUT being Gay is not dysfunctional …”
Whoa! There, Spout. I didn’t say being gay was dysfunctional I said that institutional sexual abuse was dysfunctional and was, if reports are correct, certainly not by any means just homosexual.
I have no problems with any form of loving relationships but the abuses, reportedly involving members of both Houses of Parliament, were far from being loving relationships, and most certainly not with the free consent of both parties.
If I gave any other impression then I apologise.
sensibledave:
“Secondly, and on a specific point, there is more than a whiff of hypocrisy about the whole article. May I point you to page 11 of the SNP manifesto and the headline on that page.”
Page 11 is headed ‘An end to Tory government’, and there is a graphic with a caption suggesting that the Tories will not enter number 10 after the election.
Where, on this page, is there a commitment which can be called hypocritical when compared with this article? There is a clear promise in the manifesto to do anything democratically possible to stop one party forming a government. Shoud such a manifesto committment be outlawed?
It may be said that the Tories and Labour wanted to shut the SNP out of government (was it in their manifestoes?). In this aim they have been more successful than the SNP.
Did the SNP make a promise to try and lock the others out of debate and discussion? i do not see it. And, as of yet, the others have not made any moves to lock the SNP out of such discussions as involve Scotland. But the National is warning, and the Rev highlights the warning, that existing procedures of the HoC will give undue emphasis to the voices of 2 of Scotland’s MPs to the virtual exclusion of 56 others.
All this nonsense about the Greens
Do you want a democracy or not
People can vote for whomever they choose you can’t go around shouting about democracy to others and then deny someones right to exercise it
joemcg,
Sadly what you say of Murray’s constituency is correct. ‘Vote Labour’ posters were seen in some of the most expensive of detached villas within his patch.
Ian Murray, a REAL red Tory, elected by tories.
@ manandboy, spot on, I expressed the same sentiment myself on here, they were playing at politics to boost their Holyrood chances & ego’s while others were chapping doors till their knuckles bled trying to remove an arsehole.
They voted against the 56, they’re not part of the solution they’re part of the problem and not slow in stepping up to the mike at the rallies either. Who needs friends like that? I’ve yet to hear any kind of appology from Scruffy Pat.
O/T
In March 1824 the Edinburgh Chess Club played a match by correspondence with the London Chess Club,the losing team to present the winners with a siver cup of the value of Twenty Five Guineas.
The match took 4 years to complete and the Edinburgh Team despite being massive underdogs were victorious,the Scot’s Gambit Cup is proudly displayed in the Edinburgh Chess Club’s trophy cabinet.
During the course of the match,London tried to recall moves already received by the Edinburgh club,this was widely regarded as attempted cheating and frowned upon by the international chess community.
(The Scot’s game has been re-popularised by Grand Masters Gary Kasparov and Jan Timman ).
The lesson in this,you cannot win the middle/end game if you do not adopt the correct strategy in the opening game,I am sure our team know this and have devised their strategy,the Scot’s Gambit.
The London boys,having never before faced such a gambit will proceed cautiously,but at some point will make a fatal error (perhaps they have already done so ?) and the Scots will prevail.
I can wait. 🙂
If I was a green voter in the only Tory held constituency in Scotland, and knowing the poll results in the run up to May 7th, then I would have looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself the question ‘Do I want to get Mundell out, or do I want to hug another tree and have a little chat with it about Scottish Politics.’
And you know what, I would have voted SNP and then gone and hugged the tree, who would in all likelihood have congratulated me due to the tree being a couple of hundred years old and knew a thing or two about what’s good for Scotland.
Sorry @ Work so not read the comments until I get home tonight .
O/T Radio keeps blurtting out how BAD it is in S NHS with a crazy shortage of nurses.
What , get JM out here now, he knows where to find 1000 !
I expect him to be on every news broadcast tonight explaining it to us all ….. mmmm
This is not meant in any way to belittle any crisis those in NHS are dealing with as best they can.
We all accept they do a great job .
@Tinto Chiel : Thanks for that.
@Dr Jim: Don’t hold back Dr Jim!!! 🙂 I agree.
PS:
Not all Greens are vegetables, personally I like my Greens!
They kinda round off the main course and compliment the whole as they should.
Lets appreciate our greens … and not bin them.
@Lesley-Anne
Michael Forsyth’s a very interesting figure in a way. He’s not a Tory clone by any means. During the Thatcher era he replaced Ian Lang and proceeded to be the scourge of Scotland (in many people’s mind) because he genuinely believed that Scotland had to be dragged into the real world and stop thinking its heavy industry could compete with the Japanese and Koreans. And I think that it is fair to say that we couldn’t. Others might have presided over the change with more humanity, or have been a bit more imaginative about what we could do with our skilled workforce….but there we go.
Now, it seems to me, he is genuinely thinking about where Scotland can go next – within the Union of course – There may be no long-term answer, and I suspect if there isn’t he will realise it and recognise it long before many other unionists. Unlike Henry McL, he’s not a fence-sitter, and when he thinks the union game is lost, he will say so.
A lot of Greens and SSP people voted SNP in this election and in those constituencies where they have a reasonable chance then we should return the favour on the list vote.
Remember if the SNP win a lot of constituency votes they get a limited number of list seats so we can maximise the Yes vote by improving the Greens and SSP chances at the expense of the Unionist parties.
manandboy says:
12 May, 2015 at 4:10 pm
If I was a green voter in the only Tory held constituency in Scotland, and knowing the poll results in the run up to May 7th, then I would have looked at myself in the mirror and asked myself the question ‘Do I want to get Mundell out, or do I want to hug another tree and have a little chat with it about Scottish Politics.’
And you know what, I would have voted SNP and then gone and hugged the tree, who would in all likelihood have congratulated me due to the tree being a couple of hundred years old and knew a thing or two about what’s good for Scotland.
There are a few green unionists, you know – the trendy tree hugging variety who actually like being British. Not many, admittedly, but put them off voting Green and they may have voted Tory!
Yes, I cannot understand them either, but each to his/her own, all sorts to make a world etc.
Robert Peffers says:
12 May, 2015 at 2:55 pm
@Macca73 says: 12 May, 2015 at 2:04 pm:
“Alex Salmond wanted to do away with the Scottish office anyway as it wasn’t serving the people and cost too much money?”
C’mon, Macca73, This is Alex Salmond you are talking about. He plays Cameron like a trout on the end of a line.
If he says he want’s to do away with the Scottish Office and doesn’t want Mundell as SoS it probably means he wants Mundell in the post for some arcane reason.
Remember how he had the Unionists convinced he wanted a third question on the Referendum Paper and had them thinking it was all their idea to not have the third question.
I may be wrong but I’d say Eck is hard at work already
I think there’s 56 at work actually Robert and I’m off to get some popcorn!!
As I pointed out on an earlier thread when the same silliness was made about the Greens – like many other Green Party supporters I campaigned with the SNP.
Some constituencies chose to stand candidates and many of those members voted SNP. There is a hard-core deep Green vote that would not of voted SNP ever alongside another group who, like Robin Harper were against independence.
Please no more nonsense about the Green Party, they are harder to herd than Wingers and Wingers are harder to herd than cats.
manandboy
I would have done the same but the fact remains that a significant number of traditional Scottish Greens supporters lent their vote to the SNP.
Fluffy got in which is a crying shame. The only way to make that worse is to castigate green voters and lose the goodwill between Yes parties in the process.
I am not suggesting you are doing any such thing but I would hate for any Green voter to get the idea they are thought of as fodder, or subordinates in general elections. Describing them as ‘tree-huggers’ is not great either.
It is time the SNP established an allied English branch in the North of England.
That way we can get enough numbers in Westminster to simply vote ourselves Independence and the North regional autonomy. After all the North has oil too (actually its ours but it’s a small price for freedom).
A few by elections and we’d be in.
Who NOW, will represent Scotland at EU Fisheries meetings etc..
With a pending EU REF’… I AM WORRIED WE ARE BEING SOLD OUT..
… AGAIN..
BBC Radio Scotland.
Toodle-oo the noo gasps as Rowley opines that labour in Scotland could disappear! Jim must go!
Whispering into the microphone , (he may have winked or blinked) he said…
“The Scottish labour group at Westminster is united, there’s only one of them”
@mananboy @Fred etc etc
Dr Jim, Clootie and others are quite correct
I recall posting on this site last year to get the SNP to stand down in South Edinburgh to the Greens who should stand down everywhere else. I wrote to both the SNP and Greens about it. And I dont have a crystal ball either – but I was right.
If there was no deal, there was no deal – now lets get it right for the list in 2016 unless you want Kezia for a few more years.
In politics, a deal has to work for everyone – not just one side. Catch yourselves on.
The DCT election votes were as follows
CON 20,759
SNP 19,961
LAB 7,711
UKIP 1,472
LIB 1,392
GREEN 839
The SNP would have won if more people had voted for them instead of Labour, UKIP, Liberal and Green.
Why single out the Greens? They have just as much right to stand even though, as people point out above, they had no hope of winning.
Emma Harper did exceptionally well and if, by any chance, David Mundell retires, it looks like she would win next time.
Indeed, lay off the smaller parties.
SMALL PARTY SOCIALISTS /GREENS VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY FOR SNP.
They told their supporters to LEND the SNP their vote.
Sour grapes about the “posh green” vote will not help. Dont think that there is a similar “posh” wing within other parties though, just a stubbornness which is too easy to play into..
At long last, a Slabber MSP had belled the Murphy Cat.
@ James Kay 4.01
Hi James = On the online version of the Manifesto at: http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf The headline “let’s Lock out the Tories” is written in inch high letters – which, I assume is a promise (pre election) to try and make sure, even if the Tory’s are the biggest party at Westminster, that everything should be done to stop them having influence?
Its no great issue, other than, even if the SNP MPs were being “shut out” (which I see no evidence of) at the moment, then it is no more, or less, than the SNP wanted to help orchestrate the other way round, if the opportunity arose. Hence my comment.
You know that the SNP will get short shrift when it comes to influencing the government’s economic policy. However, I think, and hope, that on the subjects of both Scottish Questions and future Scottish governance, that they will be listened to and responded to.
Many here seem to be in “fight” mode. I don’t see much appetite for a fight coming from the Tory hierarchy with respect to Scottish issues. I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.
O/T
I have just completed a YouGov Political Survey which was extremely intrusive.
It asked just about every possible question as to my political views and make me think after completing it that if ever the bad guys decided to suppress The SNP I would be on the list for an early morning knock on the door.
Maybe I was unwise to give away so much info and would caution others who may be selected for this survey.
Don’t want to get into a flame war over the Greens, but if there had been a concerted “YES” effort, some Labourites and Lib Dems might have been more determined to vote for Fluffy. Morag said her Labour-voting neighbour voted SNP to keep out the Tories.
There was a map in which pink was used to show constituencies where the real winner was “didn’t vote”. Large swaths of NI and Wales. In rUK it seemed to correspond to seats which went to Labour, surprisingly enough.
The only constituency in politically active Scotland to be pink was Orkney and Shetland. Not sure what this means… Nordics scunnered with the Lib Dems but not prepared to vote SNP for their own grievances against the Scottish Government?
Greens are harder to herd than wingers. Oi! Wingers are cats. Cool Cats!
The Scottish Labour Group at Westminster are United? Oh! Yes? .I listened to him on GMSthis morning and I am sure I detected conflict. One of him was against Trident the other one of him was suspiciously for Trident. A split already?
There’s a massive problem for Labour in Scotland.Many of their policies,London Rule,Austerity,Trident etc,are very unpopular with a huge swathe of Scottish voters.If Labour choose to share policies with the Tories and Libdems they’ll also be sharing votes with them.
Last Thursday Labour got the votes of about half the folk that support those kind of policies.The Tories got about a third.Libdems shared the remainder with UKIP.Is that really such a bad result for Labour?
I sincerely apologise to all greens and especially to green leaning wingers for any upset due to my comments. Mundell evokes some very strong emotions in me and I guess I was just looking for someone to blame, given that Mundell has shot to the top of the Scottish Tory Tree from where he will undoubtedly crow down to us for the next few years until Independence. (I’m actually about 10% Green myself, with a garden full of trees, but 100% SNP and Independence).
I agree with you Capella.
I was out, when I could, to do what little I could for Emma and I can say without contradiction our team in the Annan area was superb. Hell they even went up to the Labour stall, on the last Saturday, all S.N.P.’d up to tell them they were undecideds and asked the three Labour councillors on *ahem* duty to convince them why they should vote Labour. 😀
In 2010 Aileen Orr did a fantastic job to get the S.N.P. vote up into fourth place in this predominantly Tory of seats. Emma has just achieved the unbelievable result of coming withing a whisker of giving Fluffy the biggest earse kicking of his life. 🙂
I have it on good authority, from those at the count actually, that up until the final result Fluffy was definitely NOT his bumpous self. Not a laugh or smile passed his lips until the final result so we all know he was extremely concerned about losing! 😛
What about all the submissions to Smith commission that were not able to be considered due to time constraints. If we are looking for Smith proposals, there’s the starting place to look.
OT
SNP to get chair of two committees. One to choose is Culture, Media and Sport. BBC charter coming up for renewal and Dave’s new Culture Minister an anti Beeb man. What fun we could have 😀 Toilet paper to Pacific Quay!
Especially as the SNP was founded on dissatisfaction with the effect of the London media and this newfangled wireless on Scottish life and culture in the 1920s.
It’s very likely another Referendum will be in the next Holyrood Manifesto
That’ll be the big test to see how many we can bring over to our side
If we can make everywhere Yellow again I think our chances of winning the next vote will be big and then we’ll be out of this madness of a Union
Just want to say a word about Nicola Sturgeon
No politician anywhere put in the effort she did in this campaign North or South of the border
She was everywhere at once giving interviews shaking hands kissing babies taking selfies with what looked like the whole planet at times and never once put a foot wrong
While still taking time to send us emails
The woman is made of Girders
I think we’re pretty lucky compared to England where it’s either Dinosaurs or Denizens of Darkness
@Legerwood says: 12 May, 2015 at 12:18 pm:
“Another member if Labour’s branch office shadow cabinet has resigned. Rowley(?) – think that is the name.
Aye! Legerwood, that’s the name. Alex Rowley one of a long line of Kelty Labour Rowleys. His first act on his first crack as leader of Fife Council was to close Council Old Folks Homes and centres for the young Adult Mentally Handicapped folks. He then spent several thousand quid for a pink leather suite for his Fife House Office.
A career politician who then got the highest paid political office in the Scottish Branch office of the Labour Party – only to grind his political career to a halt by being unable to keep his trousers on.
That Alex Rowley.
If this guy has resigned a post and called for Dim Jim’s resignation then you can probably say hello to the guy to replace DimJim.
You can tell I rate him highly, can’t you?
Aye!
Richt!
The corpse of the union is really beginning to stink now.
Good!
@manandboy
Understandable frustration, don’t beat yourself up, would have loved winning the lot, I don’t think anybody would disagree with result you wanted
Well I don’t
Many here seem to be in “fight” mode. I don’t see much appetite for a fight coming from the Tory hierarchy with respect to Scottish issues. I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.
Sorry sensibledave but if there is a fight to be had then you can bet your bottom dollar the FAMOUS 56 will instigate it whether or not the Tory Toff’s want one or not.
Unfortunately for Cameron and his millionaire buddies if the S.N.P. smell blood they will definitely go for it aiming specifically for the jugular. It will be of no consequence if they win or lose in the House of Commons because the word will get out and be spread far and wide that the S.N.P. fought the Scottish corner against all odds. THAT is what matters.
The S.N.P. said they were going to Westminster to fight for what is right for the people of Scotland as well as the rest of the U.K. It’s not a case of fighting and winning cause everyone knows the numbers are against them. The main issue is whether they do what they said and that is most certainly what they will do.
I do not think for one instant Cameron and co. are the slightest bit ready for the Tsunami that is about to hit Westminster. Fluffy will undoubtedly be made to look an even bigger idiot than the vast majority of people know him to be. This puts Cameron in a real impossible position cause he has no other Scottish Tory M.P. (in a Scottish seat) to replace him when he screws up once too often to the delight of the FAMOUS 56.
Cameron needs a Scottish M.P. to be SoS of Scotland. I do not believe he can have the likes of Rifkind as SoS because as anyone who has watched the previous government in action a SoS can be called to the House of Commons to answer questions from the house. A Lord is forbidden from entering the HoC.
If Cameron were to have an England based Tory as SoS of Scotland all hell will surely break loose.
So, in my view, the S.N.P. actually have Cameron over a barrel over SoS for Scotland never mind anything else he tries to do.
Mr Mundells re election is largely due to his appearance in that Harry Potter film.
Seems to be a disturbing amount of Green party bashers surfacing around here.
Reminds me a little of all the SSP haters who popped out of the woodwork after the referendum…
Really hope this isn’t going to become a recurring pattern after every vote on something, or I might seriously consider if I want to bother sticking around here and reading all that divisive crap.
Personally, I like the Greens. Even seriously considered joining them some years back.
Why not stick to attacking the real enemies and leave the infighting to the politicians. At least they get paid for it!
@Cadogan Enright
@mananboy @Fred etc etc
MORE TROLLS ?
“Scotland had to be dragged into the real world and stop thinking its heavy industry could compete with the Japanese and Koreans. ”
I take issue with this assumption. Along the lines of the old joke about training shoes and safari lions, all Scotland had to do was outcompete the likes of Norway and Germany for shipbuilding and other ‘heavy’ industry ( btw apart from ship and bridge building what else were they still doing? I think locomotive building went to the wall a wee while before Rifkind did it not?)
@sensibledave I might be wrong but I don’t think so
You’re absolutely right Dave
You’re wrong
handclapping says:
OT
SNP to get chair of two committees. One to choose is Culture, Media and Sport. BBC charter coming up for renewal and Dave’s new Culture Minister an anti Beeb man. What fun we could have 😀 Toilet paper to Pacific Quay!
If they are to get two committee chairmanships HC then surely the second one has to be the Scottish Affairs select committee. Can you imagine the fun they could have with Fluffy? 😉
Between calling him to account on the slightest detail every time they meet as well as throwing curve balls at him in Scottish Questions every 5 or 6 weeks in the House of Commons. His life would become a complete misery and he’d be begging Cameron to remove him from his position at the High alter of Toryness. 😀
The voting rules need to be changed to include 16/17 year olds, to be fair to young folk. The SNP should start campaigning for it and put it in their next manifesto. Change the rule at Holyrood too.
It’s just a pity that the Greens could not have stood at Mundell’s constituency. Even on the off chance to stop him crowing.
@Robert Peffers
Rowley! Aye him and he did all you say he did.
I always liked it when P. Grant (new MP now) or Cllr D Alexander tore him a new one on his past record during Fife Council meetings.
With Jim waiting on help from darn South but stumped because the real labour party is Ed-less and Harman not lifting the phone a vacancy may soon appear in the North.
A vacuum always has to be filled, but …with another vacuum! Surely Rowley can’t defy the laws of physics?
Handclapping
Somebody been reading my comments ? 😉
Edward says:
8 May, 2015 at 4:22 pm
Culture, Media and Sport Committee has a couple of vacancies
Scottish Affairs Committee has even more vacancies
as they seem to have lost a few (former chair was a certain Ian Davidson) Maybe you can recommend new chair and members?
I’m sure the Greens would have pulled out of the Mundel seat had they known the outcome, but I don’t think we can or should blame them.
The first question at Scottish Questions as well as PM Questions should be about the investigation into the Smear against Nicola from the Scottish Office.
This is not a trivial matter, with the last we heard of it being Mundels people pointing at Carmichael and visa versa.
We must get this matter sorted out as a resignation can be the only outcome of someone who could easily have caused a diplomatic incident.
BBC are stating “It is expected that the SNP will take over the chairmanship of the Scottish affairs committee and another which is yet to be decided”
The ‘other’ is probably one they hope is not Culture, Media & Sport
manandboy
Dr Jim is right – don’t beat yourself up. I imagine there are greens in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale who tactically voted SNP who are even more frustrated.
If it is any consolation, we have the prospect of Alex Salmond and Co wiping the floor with Mundell.
Mealer says:
Mr Mundells re election is largely due to his appearance in that Harry Potter film.
I’m not so sure it was that or if it was the photograph that was circulated in the local media and leaflets of Fluffy pointing out what a pot hole looked like. He is very good at that sort of thing you know Mealer, pointing out pot holes I mean. 😀
@Macart
Excellent piece in Wee Ginger Dug… 🙂
Posted earlier re: SG Council elections dispute.
Remembered it’s in the Herald on-line (archive won’t work)
———————————————————–
A row has broken out over whether the next Scottish government, which is due to be elected a year from now, should serve a three or five year term of office.
The standard Holyrood term, laid down in the Scotland Act, is four years but a Scottish Parliament election cannot be held in 2020 because it would clash with the next Westminster poll.
A number MSPs believe the next parliament should only sit for three years, to avoid a repeat of the problem in 2025 and return Holyrood to a four year cycle.
A three year term would also allow less time for a possible independence referendum if Nicola Sturgeon were to win a majority in May next year and a mandate for a re-run of last September’s vote.
The alternative would be a five year parliament, ending with an election in 2021.
One MSP said: “This can only be settled two ways and the powers that be will have to seek parliamentary support for one of the options.
“Five years is more attractive superficially because three years seems a short period for a government to deliver a programme.
“But it would present us with the same problem in 2025 so we have to have either a three year term or move permanently to five years, which was not the intention of the Scotland Act which created the Scottish Parliament.”
A Scottish parliament election was due to have taken place this year but was postponed when Westminster’s Fixed Term Parliament Act set the date of the General Election for the same time.
However, the one year delay was only a temporary fix, leaving MSPs facing the same problem as they approach next year’s election, to be held on May 5.
………………………………………………………
The SNP cant have the chair of the Culture, Media and Sport committee as I believe its going to be chaired by a Tory (who doesn’t like the BBC)
The SNP could be on the committee though
So what other committee could the SNP chair?
How crazy – I’m getting excited by the thought of the Scottish Affairs Committee. What has happened to me?
Conman Cameron appointed a defrauding, banker, criminal Associate, who should be in jail, as head of the BBC. Moves are on to line his and his associates pockets with £Millions in of public money, in commissions and charges, in a sell off deal? At least Turpin wore a mask. Watch the BBC’s attitude the SNP change when the sell off proposals start.
Trougher Marr, Neil, Dimbleby, they are coming for youses and your precious BBC next. The impression on their visage when the Scottish results were coming in was worth every minute.
Ding Ding!
Round 1
So Cameron wants to scrap Human Rights act does he and he has the backing of Fluffy. 😀
I guess they haven’t been told about having to discuss this idea with Holyrood and get HOLYROOD to agree to it before it can be scrapped in Scotland then. 😛
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=9942&i=91238#ScotParlOR&st_refDomain=t.co&st_refQuery=/fxHvY1TuNe
“Scotland had to be dragged into the real world and stop thinking its heavy industry could compete with the Japanese and Koreans. ”
With this quote in mind it’s worth reading Michael robotham’s book ‘Grip of death’. It’s an interesting book about the history of debt and the true power of the banks.
Quite topically he talks about thatchers obsession with reducing the national debt in the 80s. So our debt compared to GDP was around 35pc whereas Germany’s was around 60pc. This was because the German govt was taking a stake in its manufacturing sector. This reaped the rewards especially when China had its growth explosion.
Of course the tories were patting themselves on the back for having one of the smallest national debts around. The result now is a country which basis it’s economy on private debt bubbles and the printing of Fiat money. A disasterous balance of trade to boot. Yeah job well done.
@ Lesley Anne 5.28
If you are right Lesley Anne, then I fear the SNP MPs are in for a very long 5 yrs. If all they do is try and make life difficult for the other 600 MPs and simply disrupt the workings of Parliament then they will find themselves in some difficulty.
I am absolutely certain that Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond are far cleverer than you are suggesting. They will whip the MPs to behave as they want them to – and I am sure that means behave in a manner that demonstrates that they can be trusted to run an independent Scotland
I think people might be misinterpreting the intention behind Lord Forsyth’s calls for a white paper exploring FFA.
What he is really hoping for is a white paper, produced (ie, spun) by the Tories, which presents FFA as so scary and damaging to Scotland that the demand for Independence will disappear forever.
Dream on Forsyth.
Willy Young’s seen the light? Preparing for early retiring from his Public troughing, useless ‘career’
@Yoda says: 12 May, 2015 at 1:23 pm:
“Actually the UK is a country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom.
Pish!
Wiki?
Aye!
Richt!
No further comment needed.
Rowley appears to be an even better candidate to achieve a Unionist wipeout at Holyrood. A Gift.
Visited the Highland Wildlife Park on Sunday. My 6 year-old granddaughter pointed to a red panda and said ” look – it’s Ian Murray!” Well, not really, but I wish she had.
Many in the rest of the UK are against Trident and campaign against it. CND, Churches etc.
Fluffy ruling out FFA.
https://archive.is/dIQDU
M&M is that a thin shelled morsel with little filling. Or the new SoS and shadow SoS. Maybe they are one of the same
Not exactly zooming but missing the point, IMO. Perhaps a bit ‘One Nation über alles’?
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/how-different-is-scotland/
@Richardinho says: 12 May, 2015 at 2:50 pm:
“What this really highlights is how pointless the Scottish Office now is.”
How about we dub Scottish Questions as, “Panda’s Posers”, or, “Posers for Panda”?
Edward says:
The SNP cant have the chair of the Culture, Media and Sport committee as I believe its going to be chaired by a Tory (who doesn’t like the BBC)
Are you not confusing the chaimanship of the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee with the appointment of the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Edward?
StevieMcB says:
Fluffy ruling out FFA.
https://archive.is/dIQDU
Can’t wait to see him try and sell that to the FAMOUS 56 Stevis. 😛
I think he has just dropped Cameron in it from a spectacular height. Especially as Cameron has already said that things have to move on beyond the Smith Commission. I guess Fluffy didn’t get that memo. 😀
Have to agree with others, not happy that Fluffy is in post, but let’s not attack the Greens. Remember, Greens and SSP were disappointed that there was no alliance agreement, which as it happens, SNP called right!
Greens and SSP lent their votes this time round, and we owe them some thanks for that, as well as their help in campaigning.
Mundell is only a patsy meantime, a bag carrier for Cameron, the guy is in over his head. He will be used like Alexander, sent out to deliver all the shite news, cannon fodder, an opening volley.
Evidence of it already over the Humans Rights legislation.
Get your popcorn in.
@Lesley
Since you raise the ECHR I’ll repeat a reply I made to Bob Mack near the end of the last thread.
@Bob Mack
“Is it an attempt to have the English Supreme Courts the final arbiter in the UK with regard to the legality of a future referendum without interference from the European Courts ?.”
Yes it is.
This rouse was first concocted between Canadian and British constitutional experts during the patriation negotiations for Canada in the 80s.
When it was suggested that new constitutional powers for the Canadian Supreme court could help with the Quebec ‘problem’ it was observed and stated (I saw the minutes) that a similar move might also prove helpful in any future case of independence for Scotland.
As a consequence I have been trying to warn people for many years that there would be a UK Supreme Court created (there was) and that it would ‘acquire’ remit up to the point of constitutional rulings which it may use against the right to self determination of the Scottish people at some point, if necessary.
However, whether that approach will be considered legal by the international community remains moot because there has not been another referendum since the amendment of the Bill of Rights and Supreme Court ruling on unilateral independence, in which Quebec has said Yes but Canada said No.
The UN has remained silent on the matter.
However it should be noted that in the fairly recent case of Kosovo, the UN judical body the ICJ, ruled that Kosovo had not acted illegally in declaring UDI from Serbia.
So it does not look good for the Canadian/UK approach on this.
Not to say they would not just go ahead with it anyway.
Leaving the ECHR will help the UK in that it will probably lead to them also leaving other UN human rights treaties because the ECHR is basically a subset of the human rights enshrined in various UN charters and covenants.
This will undoubtedly ‘unfortunately’ include having to leave those with particular relevance to Scotland’s right to self determination, even though that part is not included in the remit of the ECHR. Like the right to self determination enshrined in the ICCPR treaty.
Incidentally, all EU member states are signed up to the ECHR and the EU has collectively signed up to it as well.
Any future members to the EU must now agree to membership of the ECHR as part of the entry requirements.
Therefore,leaving the ECHR, although it is not an EU body, will result in the UK having to leave the EU, unless the UK courts continue to mirror ECHR advice and allow its citizens access to the ECHR. Whether there is a referendum or not.
It therefore raises the question as to whether Cameron, May et al are really genuinely pro-EU or whether they are secretly arranging a ‘get out anyway’ card?
Oops! just noticed, too late, I spelled ruse wrong.
Lesley-Anne
Facepalm :D, your right
I’m off to stand on the naughty step 🙂
Does anyone have a good knowledge of how the chair of a select committee is appointed? And how are members appointed? Does the SNP have a free reign on this or are the positions nominated?
Just trying to imagine Alex chairing the culture committee
Man in the jar,
Edinburgh election results
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20112/election_results/651/uk_parliamentary_elections_results
Shetland
http://www.shetland.gov.uk/elections/
Dumfries
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=14585
The SNP and others have wanted the end of the Scottsh Office for years. It costs £100,000 a year, paid for by Scottish taxpayers, for a numpty to fart about in doing absolutely nothing. The money could be better spent on something useful. Did Liddell not spend her time there, learning French and embroidery? Before she pissed off for the extended Australia sojourn on £Millions of taxpayers money doing absolutely nothing. Conveniently giving up her seat for another troughing numpty
Word on the street is the Euror ref is going to be pushed forward to 2016! Two euro big guns have national elections in 2017. They are not happy with the uncertainty leading up to heir national elections.
Now where would that leave Holyrood 2016! I would imagine the Euro vote would be in the autumn after another SNP majority I hope.
So I reckon there has to be a referendum commitment in the Holyrood manifesto. The first part of the triple lock has to be put in place.
SD: If all SNP MPs do is try and make life difficult for the other 600 MPs and simply disrupt the workings of Parliament
Are you going to subject these columns day in, day out to this sort of idle bollocks?
Have you nothing constructive to contribute?
@Chic McGregor says: 12 May, 2015 at 3:04 pm:
Where is David Torrance?
In a pikturkist studio somewhere frichtenin the weans wi yon donnert smirk.
Labour in utter turmoil and BBC give Scotland 2015 over to a story about new evidence in a murder from a long time ago.
Plus ca change
Mundell majority = 798
Murray majority = 2637
Carmicheal majority = 817
Total for all 3 pandas an astonishing = 4252
http://www.primeeconomics.org/articles/has-labour-just-dodged-a-bullet
I don’t think Alex will be nominated for a committee for a few reasons:
He is in the background to let the party leadership to come forward…Alew is now pushed less in the press as the main protaginist.
He has a lot of experience and should be effective and most useful as a mentor and authority for the New SNP MPs. Robertson is the Head of the SNP MPs but who is the chief whip?
Lastly, Salmond can keep his powder dry until the SNP need or want to make some bombastic statement or action. No point of having him as a cliché, wheeled out every 5 minutes (a la Gordon Brown — though Brown is not in the same league as Salmond anyway). He needs to be front and centre sparingly or it will use value/impact. Meanwhile he will be a key mover and shaker off camera.
Just an opinion 🙂
He daes he a look o the deil aboot him. Or mibbes ain o his helpers. Wee imp horns wuid suit him fine.
Brian Taylor, BBC, “Among Labour at Holyrood, there are as many views about the future of the party as there are group members. By contrast, the Scottish Labour group at Westminster is entirely united.”
If this is what indeed happens at Scottish questions with Scottish Labour allowed six questions and the SNP one, there will be only one option left.
The 56 SNP MPs must return to Scotland and start a Gandhi style campaign for independence.
We the 50% will support them.
Anyone for independence in March 2016 as previously planned?
@gillie
Aye ‘they’ are against Trident but urnae.
Peffers: In a pikturkist studio somewhere frichtenin the weans wi yon donnert smirk.
🙂
This politics thingy never gets boring but – we need to be able to explain clearly the roles of MP, MSP, MEP, Councillor and Community Councillor to our people – each role needs to be effective, we are building a nation.
This business about Cameron saying NO to anther Referendum I’m almost sure that constitutionally it’s not in his gift to deny one
Also if memory serves was there not something in the Smith Commission which referenced Scotlands Right to Self Determination and if so, AND if Westminster has agreed to that document even in Minimus, that transfer along with the
“Other Powers” contained was and is agreed
Mr Peffers…. Your department
There endeth the extent of my knowledge
Westminster doesn’t have the authority to take Scotland out of the EU court of Human rights or stop another Referendum. Scotland has a right to it’s own legal system forever under the terms of the Act of Union. Cameron would be breaking the Law. Scottish/UK/EU Law. The Supreme London Court has to consider the difference in Scottish Law. The Supreme London Court cannot act illegally/break the Law on Scottish matters. The Scottish people are sovereign in Scotland.
Canada has a different legal system and a different administration system. Canada is a completely different example/norm. Not comparing like with like.
@Tinto Chiel says: 12 May, 2015 at 3:46 pm :
@ call me dave
I think the Scots word you are looking for is “kepper” i.e. a ball easily caught. You can still hear older fans using it when a weak cross is directed into the box.
You got it Tinto Chiel – It is derived from, “Kep”=to catch; there is also, “keppie”, and kepping. Seems related to the English, “Keep” or “catch”.
SD what the hell have the MSPs been doing in Holyrood for the last 7 years. Running a country. The MPs are in Westminster to bring home more powers not to prove they can run a country. They will not be running Westminster so your point is mute. They should only behave in a manner that suits Scotland or benefits Scotland and not towing the Westminster line.
Couldn’t resist re kepper – looks like England has dropped her balls xx
The SNP must go to WM and be tightly drilled.
They must be whipped to within an inch of their life.
They must attend debates & participate in divisions.
Publish these figures as an example of how a SNP MP represents constituents & Scotland.
No ridiculous expense claims or behaviour scandals.
Acting the goat at Scottish questions would be a big stick to beat them with.
Come Holyrood 2016 & possibly Indyref2, the SNP are going to be held to account more than ever.
Saw this article on Wings Twitter about Mhairi Black in the Scottish Daily Express:
SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon may have to have a word with Miss Black if her language is as colourful as her tweets from when she was just 14 and 15-years-old.
Teenage angst obviously got the best of her when she tweeted: “F*** me I’m angry…… bunch a w****.”
Meanwhile a tweet saying “the nuns can get tae f***” has received 125 ‘likes’ and 415 retweets
Yas, love it! 😀 😀
Don’t fret IvMoz – already sorted re some stroking incentive.
Michael Forsyth is the biggest enemy Scotland has ever had. Thatcher sidekick, puppet henchman. He would ave been one who knew exactly what she was doing taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland. (eg the equivalent of £20Billion, a year) for years. The Oil revenues were fantastic, while shutting down ever manufacturing facility in Scotland and spending it on London S/E Canary Wharf. Leaving misery in tbe North and Scotland. Lang was certainly in on the Act. Keeping the secretly, hidden under the Official Secrets Act documents which where released last year, under the thirty years Act. Forsyth is trying to cover hs back before the SNP come after him for what he did. Total disclosure under Parliamentary Privilege.
Alex Salmond knows the full facts and know where to look for the evidence. Forsyth is a criminal snake. The claim was it wasn’t ‘Scotland’s Oil, it was (illegally) Thatcher slush fund. Totally criminal behaviour for any Minister under the Ministerial Code. One of her Minister resigned. Not Forsyth. Thatcher also cancelled a pipeline wasting the equivalent of £Billion of Gas while unemployment soared. Thatcher left over three million unemployed and interest rates at 15%. Destroyed the International Banking Laws. Forsyth is a complete troughing lowlife. He knowing revelled in what Thatcher was doing, causing misery and distress and breaking up families. Thatcher caused civil war in Britain, what she did to the Mining Community was unforgettable and unforgiveable. He was totally involved, her right hand man. He is detestable.
@ Paula Rose (we are building a nation.) Right your the Hud carrier,you,ll hiv muscles like Paul Newman Hud in Hud lol.
Capella,
“Neil Hay losing to Ian Murray following the smear campaign orchestrated by Labour. I do think he ought to get advice about suing for defamation.”
I am afraid that would only cause him financial ruin.
The Scottish justice system, like the Electoral Commission, the Information Commissioner’s office, the Press Complaints and the Pravda GB Trust, is rotten to the core.
As Stu has often pointed out, politicians can lie with impunity. All those toothless corrupt entities would not do anything about it.
I had mentioned it a few days ago – as soon as the dust settles, the 56 SNP MPs will be ignored.
Phil Robertson,
“I guess it’s how the system works. Just as 50% of the vote gets 96% of the MPs.”
Why don’t you do some research and find out what % of the vote gave the Thatcher and Blair landslides?
Who is stopping Westminster from implementing proportional representation? I am sure the 56 SNP MPs would vote for it.
It is ironic that Westminster’s total democratic deficit is only noticed when a democratic party has beaten them at their own game.
Although it was designed to keep the SNP out, thankfully we got a democratic system in Scotland.
ronnie anderson honey, am over to the social club to put the lights on
our young Taranaich and oneironaut have been playing in the dark
could you bring some biscuits?
Red Panda (Ailurus fulgens)
We have one female red panda, called Kitty, she arrived at the park on 23 May 2012.
Red pandas are excellent climbers, they are active mostly at dawn and dusk, they sleep for most of the day, they have a “false thumb”.
They have no close living relatives, with their nearest ancestors living 3-4 million years ago.
They eat berries, fruit, roots, shoots and occasionally small rodents.
http://www.highlandwildlifepark.org.uk/animals/detail/red-panda/2653
OI.OI.OI.Calm doon fur fecks sake let the dust settle.
Scottie dog;Labour may have dodged a bullet but it is nothing compared to BAZOOKAS COMING FROM WHEESHTMINSTER to SNP Honourable Members.
Stakes and pile drivers will be hammered into Poison Chalice appointments made by Cameron to deflect criticism from his shiney wee brow
I think sensibledave just wants to be liked. Not so sure about the others, though.
deewal,
“Why did the Greens field a candidate against Mundell ?
That alone makes me aware once again that the Greens are a UK Unionist Party with a Scottish Branch.
I will not be voting for them ever.”
I had always suspected that the Scottish Greens were spoilsports and Patrick Harvie’s decision to stand 31 Green candidates, 29 of whom lost their deposits and allowed Mundell to hang on, confirms this.
If the SNP had not got a majority in 2011 and had to rely on Green votes, we would have never got the referendum.
While Paula Rose puts on an SNP hat to comment here, I wonder what she has to say on Green blogs. Don’t forget the South British Green party is anti-independence.
However you feel about Neil Hay
would be insane to pursue a legal case
I personally don’t think the tweets made a diff
Nicola Sturgeon said it was up to the electorate
George Galloway making himself look a total idiot taking legal action
Events moving on rapidly with Osbourne set to lead EEC
Negotiations .This issue appears to be moving centre stage.
However, is it a reasonable assessment that “major players”
Within the EU are well aware of the “new political situation ” within the UK ,post GE ?
Consequently , perhaps some may deduce that the UK government may not have a very
Strong negotiating position with the “tension” within the “United Kingdom” following the virtual
“wipeout” of Unionist MP’s in Scotland.
Therefore, if Mr Osbourne is “offered little or nothing” following his “negotiations”, is the
UK government “seriously” going to campaign for a “withdrawal”,?( and run the risk of “Nicola’s
Material change in circumstances”) or “seriously” lose face ?
Quote of the Day: Brian Donohoe, Ayr Advertiser, on GE2015 Scotland
“…the people will have to live with what they’ve done.”
Jo-La was right. We’re just not genetically programmed to make political decisions.
Dr Jim,
“All this nonsense about the Greens Do you want a democracy or not”
A Westminster election is not an exercise in democracy.
A Scottish parliament election is and that is going to take place next year.
It’s off. The Unions going on strike and attacking the Tories. The Unions will be a better opposition than Labour/Unionists.
The decommissioning work on the (Ninian field) Murchison Platform has been taken from Aberdeen by Aker Kvaerner to Holland. More workers are being paid off. Scotland doesn’t even have control over it’s own Oil sector.
So sad to read that Rock and deewal are the dad’s army of the UK – unless they can convince us otherwise.
Reading through this thread tonight, I fear it has been taken over by fans of a certain Glasgow football club, who have, since 1888 been: “Always cheated, never defeated”.
OK, the Sweetie Wife hung on by some 800 votes. It’s no use blaming the 800 or so voters who voted Green, or the Green Party of Scotland, who put up a candidate in the constituency.
There has been a lot of criticism of the suggested Unionist stitch-up of tactical voting. If it was wrong when any combination of Red, Yellow or Blue Tories got together to thwart the SNP, then it stinks just as much should the SNP do a shabby deal with another party to thwart a sgtrong Unionist candidate.
Better to win by your own merits and arguments.
Blame ourselves, the SNP members and supporters, who simply did not convince enough of the voters in that constituency to support their candidate.
Given all they were up against, all the lies and shit they had to thole from a biased media, both written and broadcast, the SNP did a phenomenal job (can I use a word so-identified with Big Dim Jim’s tipple of choice?) in getting 56 candidates elected, and, so nearly 59.
In elections, as in sport – any competitor can get lucky once and win – the trick is to win twice, then keep-on winning. The SNP must strive to hold their 56 seats, and do enough to get the other three – that’s the big challenge.
Worth a peek. The Observer.
https://archive.is/cDMx3
Footie: all over early on: Bayr Mun 3 : Barca 5 < 10mins to go. 🙁
@Ken500 says: 12 May, 2015 at 6:22 pm:
“Rowley appears to be an even better candidate to achieve a Unionist wipeout at Holyrood. A Gift.”
Rowley has strings and pulling them is a giant clunking fist. Remember Rowley was promoted as the Scottish General Secretary Labour Party, (1998 – 1999), then blew it. He is a career politician promoted way above the limits of his competence.
Where is Jim Murphy hiding?
What is it with Scottish Labour leaders, they keep going into hiding.
I remember wee Johann disappeared for about three months because she had a couple of questions to answer.
Scottish Labour, the “People’s Party”, my arse.
The Scottish Greens HAD to stand in at least half the seats, they are a party of reactive funda(dilly) mentalists… Outdoor activists, like the SNP were (and still are) what would the Greens gain from dissappearing from an entire campaign.
Don’t give the Greens a hard time for scoring an “own goal”…
It’s done.. And they’re in our squad for future ventures.. Don’t huff..
Good to see the SNP calling for an end to the free passes for ex MPs.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2015/may/snp-call-free-passes-lords-be-ruled-out
A nonsense that disgraced MPs like Nigel Griffiths, who receives £11,000 a year from renting out his office to the Red Panda, can swan about the place.
No wonder they get these lobbying jobs.
Less humphing and grumping and blaming about the 3 (only 3) seats we did not win.
If anyone had said we would have won 53 seats I might even have kissed Kezia. In fact I might have kissed Jim Murphy.
@Ronnie Anderson
Still chuckling away at “The(Sarah)Smith Commission.”
You are awful, but I like you!
Paula Rose,
“So sad to read that Rock and deewal are the dad’s army of the UK – unless they can convince us otherwise.”
Paula, “honey”, “dear”, while you put on an SNP hat to patronise everyone here, why don’t you tell us what you say on Green blogs?
Such wisdom and love you display here, could you not possibly have had a word with Patrick Harvie and convinced him not to act as a spoilsport in the 2015 Westminster election?
So sad you can’t face a few home truths.
Caz-m: Where is Jim Murphy hiding?
Can’t be many ‘safe houses’ nowadays in Scotland. 🙂
For you Peffers..
Pandamentarians
QUESTION TIME “LIVE”.. FROM EDINBURGH ZOO.
Oh pleeeeeease.
@sensibledave says: 12 May, 2015 at 6:15 pm
” … If all they do is try and make life difficult for the other 600 MPs and simply disrupt the workings of Parliament then they will find themselves in some difficulty.”
Are you really so misinformed as your comments on this forum indicate you are? You do not comprehend just how difficult those 56 UK MPs from Scotland can make life for both the Tory Government and the opposition. These 56 are not your average totally ignorant numptie lobby fodder of the bulk of those MPs you seem to imagine are clever.
I’m going to point you at an incident when Alex Salmond previously served at Westminster. There he took on the then Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Willian Waldegrove. and I quote from: – http://wingsoverscotland.com/on-our-own-two-feet/
Mr Salmond knows the Westminster system and its rules better than any other present MP in the House. The game, Watson, is afoot.
BTW: It wouldn’t do you any harm to read that article by the great John Jappy. He writes from inside information.
@Elgordo,
Disaster for Scotland! We have lost one of our Red Pandas.
On 15 June 2014 we were delighted when Kitty gave birth to two kits. One male, called Makalu and a female called Annapurna. In April 2015 Makalu left the Park for another in France.
There are only three left – what a co-incidence!?
Better than politicians, at least everything the pandas do, is in black and white…
@ Rock – do you have a problem with democracy? Does Nicola Sturgeon decide SNP policy?
Ken500 @9.21
First I’ve heard of that, fucking incandescent with rage, fuck sake. Brent supposedly going to NE England.
Decom work worth millions going elsewhere bastirt, bastirt, bastirt, fuck, fuck, fuck.
Going for a lie down.
5 days on, and the Slabs are still clueless.
Fud Klingon and Max Wall must stay, (only for entertainment value).
56 SNP members in Westminster, will do more work than the rest of the other parties combined.
The reason?
They are NOT troughers
http://caltonjock.com/2015/04/28/ian-blinky-murray-labour-party-mp-for-edinburgh-south-shadow-scottish-secretary-a-comic-appointment-but-the-jokes-on-him/
Grouse Beater
I think Creepy Murphy is hiding deep in the bowels of Pacific Quay, along with all the other ghouls.
Jackie Baillie and Ian Murray want to keep him as leader.
What do we know?
Anyone think that Cameron could be deliberatly provocative, Tory arrogance gouding the SNP into calling for a new referendum before they really want to?
According to gossip, the SNP are to be given the chair of the Scottish affairs Committee,and A.N.Other.
Rock, for goodness sake would you stop bashing on about the greens. You’ve been at it all day and it sure is getting a bit wearing.
People are entitled to vote for any party that they wish. You’re not able to impose your will on them. All right Ian Murray won, none of us are happy about it, but there you go. It’s called democracy.
Now just gie it a rest.
@Paula Rose
“ronnie anderson honey, am over to the social club to put the lights on
our young Taranaich and oneironaut have been playing in the dark
could you bring some biscuits?”
I like playing in the dark. Always felt at home there! 😀
@ronnie anderson
“@ Paula Rose (we are building a nation.) Right your the Hud carrier,you,ll hiv muscles like Paul Newman Hud in Hud lol.”
Scottish equivalent of Rosie the Riveter?
Paula the… err, Plasterer? Plumber?
@Paula Rose says: 12 May, 2015 at 7:27 pm:
“This politics thingy never gets boring but – we need to be able to explain clearly the roles of MP, MSP, MEP, Councillor and Community Councillor to our people – each role needs to be effective, we are building a nation.”
Actually, Paula Rose, I think we have just already re-built our nation – Now we are starting building a Government. They are, except for a few old hands, about to start a five year apprenticeship.
Watching labour tare itself apart on Scotland tonight. God there vicious bastards if ya don’t agree with them huh.
There taring apart that guy who has came out against Murphy.
@Paula Rose
Rock’s got PMT again.
Why are some people fighting each other on this forum?it’s for getting informed for our cause and fighting the establishment not each other….grow up ffs
Lots of love ags ????
Didn’t know the Labour loss enquiry was going to be on telly 🙂 .
Let’s not demonise the Scottish Greens.
We were united in the referendum & will hopefully be allies in the next referendum.
The SNP’s commitment to renewable energies shows they have much in common with the Scottish Greens.
They’re entitled to field any candidates they want. That’s democracy.
TBH I think there would be mileage in forming an alliance with the Greens in England or even Scotland to further progressive policies.
Stand Free
ex MP Gemma Doyle when asked about Labours demise just repeated word for word Jim Murphys Sorry speech before praising “best campaign ever!”…they have learned nothing.
Henry ‘Im blame Neutral’ McLeish is abysmally beige on any blame assignment and Magnus from the Guardian still praises Jim and his team.
They all deserve each other
A cut’n paste of article 1 from the ICCPR to which the UK, for the moment, is a signatory:
Article 1
1. All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
2. All peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law. In no case may a people be deprived of its own means of subsistence.
3. The States Parties to the present Covenant, including those having responsibility for the administration of Non-Self-Governing and Trust Territories, shall promote the realization of the right of self-determination, and shall respect that right, in conformity with the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.
My emboldening.
I’ve just watched Neil Findlay on Scotland 2015 unwittingly admit just why Labour will be finished in Scotland.
In trying to suggest that to overcome the party’s ridiculous position within the UK of trying to face in two directions at once, Scottish Labour should in his opinion become part of a ‘federal structure’ or become ‘independent’ he rather short-sightedly overlooks the fact that we can do all that just fine up here without the baggage of trying to appease this monstrous regiment of aspirational English voters.
Anyone think that Cameron could be deliberatly provocative, Tory arrogance gouding the SNP into calling for a new referendum before they really want to?
For not the last time, the date of Scotland’s next and final referendum will be decided by the people of Scotland.
IvMoz
Quite. Even if the Greens had not put a candidate is does not mean all of their votes would have gone to one particular candidate.
Use everything at our disposal to defeat the Establishment
Im no intae Rap but this guy,s brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiEqPzpMA9M
Caz-m: What do we know?
New essay posted at midnight. 😉
@Rock says: 12 May, 2015 at 8:29 pm:
” … I had mentioned it a few days ago – as soon as the dust settles, the 56 SNP MPs will be ignored”.
Aye! Rock, and as I mentioned a few days ago they cannot be ignored if they know the rules and Salmond knows the rules better than any present sitting Member.
The Speaker can make sure they get less chance to speak in debates on bills raised by others but cannot stop SNP bills and in that case the SNP can return the compliment by refusing to allow other parties to interrupt.
As to questions these can be ignored in open debate but written question must be answered and in a reasonable time.
In Committee the SNP must be well represented according to their numbers and get to chair some committees. Here too the chair can call members but the SNP will have the chair in some committees and repay the compliment.
Then we have votes of confidence and if they are being ignored they raise no confidence. At best they can get rid on those they raise the vote against at worse they can raise so many no confidence votes the government can’t get things done.
I assure you that with 65, (and perhaps some non-SNP support), members they will not be ignored for long.
Boring boring boring, any new readers – on this site we love, but we have to accommodate all sorts – tis the truth of Wings. I’m awa to the special room xx
Murphy is hiding under the GMS desk at Pacific Quay. I distinctly heard a creepy voice saying:” Is it safe,is it safe”.While they were talking about John McTernan.
Maybe I imagined the whole thing though!
Hoss Mackintosh 10.14
Don’t worry about the pandas, u still have 4 nuclear subs. One for each Unionist and a spare for Yoda
Rock is quickly assuming Yoda-like status – he will have to share unless he wants a panda
A bit of a Hoot on newsnight tonight with Eurocrats dangling pitiful baubles in front off the Torys as carrots, while waving the stick of losing Scotland
Watching this meltdown is going to be fun
@Natasha says: 12 May, 2015 at 8:52 pm:
“I think sensibledave just wants to be liked. Not so sure about the others, though.”
Ah ken whit sensibledave wants, Natasha! An if he’s no muckle carefu he micht jist get it!
:-))
[Just couldn’t resist it.]
OT but the last thread got footied
And another reason for defenestrating Jim has to be that he guyed Ed with pish info about how well he was doing up here so Ed didn’t put in the effort in the LibDem seats that he could have won as Jim promised there would be 6 or 7 left standing.
Essentially that we have DC as PM is down to Jim 🙁
so lets hear it for Jim.
OT Word Misappropriation Alert!!!
I notice of late that a perfectly good English word seems to be in danger of misappropriation by being narrowed in scope and by being specifically targetted.
Such fates have befallen other words in the past.
That word is ‘aspirational’.
Aspirational means to desire some outcome, most often of a spiritual, uplifting or elevating nature.
Researchers motivated by a desire to cure cancer can be described as being ‘aspirational’.
Folk who are motivated by a desire to have normal levels of self-determination for their ain wee country can be described as being ‘aspirational’
But in recent weeks it seems to have become a more specifically defined buzzword, in the political bubble at least, by being applied only to a particular electoral type.
In effect it is being used as the new euphemism for ‘greed’ or at best ‘materialistic ambition’. Replacing older euphemisms like ‘bettering themselves’.
I suppose that specific use does, depending on your view, fall within its broader definition (elevated outcome) but we must not let it be hijacked for that meaning alone.
End of rant
@Louis B Argyll says: 12 May, 2015 at 10:10 pm:
“Pandamentarians”
Yeah! I like that.
Chic McGregor 11.16
Thanks.That needed saying.
Even more OT
Are there soundicons for such as raspberries or tumbleweed passing? Others could be lonesome whistle, Ta Rah!, ominous door hinge, baloon popping, champagne cork.
If there are don’t let Lesley Anne know or the blog will break out in total cacophony 😀
Five days in and still cannot believe the SNP won 56 seat.
Jim should go Jim should stay ,best election campaign ever,worst election campaign ever ,blah blah labour reflection period ,and on the other side SNP bad stole our policies ,it was the SNP media profile wot did it ,people like what we had to say ,Tory government SNP bad all their fault.
Talk of pushing all their lost MP talent into the Scottish parliament ,that will be interesting i wonder who will step aside for them not that it will matter as 2016 they are in for another kicking.
What a total shambles lol they are so incompetent they cant even get on the same message, rats in a sack.
Given the indyref No,this was never going to be anything other than a war of attrition.
The GE result shows we have gained critical mass in trumping the MSM lies.
The political awakening of Scotland will continue through the same means and when more Scots come to see the democratic deficit we have as part of the UK they will see Independence is the only answer.
If Westminster really cared about the UK they would go federal.The reality is the small minded selfish interests of a few megalomaniacs will destroy it.
As usual Scotland will do it the hard way,but do it we shall.
Onwards says:
12 May, 2015 at 12:16 pm
Looking ahead, the next UK election is probably 5 years away, but it is vital that these 56 MPs build up strong local reputations in their communities, and avoid any scandals.”
totally agree – particularly with the bit “avoid any scandals”
now don’t shoot the messenger – maybe I’m being paranoic but . . .. .
Note the photo -Alex Salmond and Christina McKelvie (who is she?)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11595243/SNPs-dramatic-new-push-for-independence.html
and “Her predecessor Alex Salmond, now MP for Gordon, was in the middle of the melee, his squeezy fingers placed on two female SNPers”.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3077556/What-Sturgeon-posing-s-not-MP-QUENTIN-LETTS-day-Scots-MPs-hit-London.html
eyes open Mr Salmond MP
the drip drip of nasty insinuations has just begun
Watch your back!
Does it really matter if 56 Scottish MP’s are ignored? I’d have thought that, as long as we can highlight that fact to the general populace, it will only be to our advantage.
It will expose the corrupt Westminster system to everyone with a pair of eyes.
Scotland’s representation will be seen as pointless and so people will look to other ways to express their feelings. If they do that democratically then I can see the SNP with an even bigger majority in Holyrood next year.
dakk said “If Westminster really cared about the UK they would go federal”.
I honestly don’t think federalism is a viable option https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2014/09/25/squaring-the-circle-what-no-means/
With a 76.1% turnout in Dumfriesshire,Clydesdale and Tweeddale,the only voters to possibly blame(even then,they have the right to not vote as a choice) are those voters who didn’t vote. Not the Greens.
The shadow secretary of state for Scotland does not represent the people of Scotland, he has no mandate to do so, the title in itself is fake.
As the only secretary of state for Scotland who has any power is the one appointed by the sitting UK government.
Typical wastemonster made up BS.
Six questions for a fake and one or two for the legitimate representatives.
Oh the irony! SLab.01 have two answers, two pincer arguments. One is best campaign ever and the other is to declare “independence”!
So it is okay to have a defective qualitative perspective to provide solace in the first instance but how can it be reasonable to declare independence for your party to represent themselves to the constituents in a Country that you just fought tooth and nail to deny them their independence!
Aye, they have a fair bit of thinking to do and an extended period of introspection.
Send word to the Hospice,Recuperation ward or Psychiatric Wing if anyone can find someone to make a decision.
@ ben madigan
Christina McKelvie is the MSP for Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse, having previously been a Central Scotland list MSP.
I see Eric Pickles has been demoted.
I wonder is Pickles jarred?
ben madigan
I also had in mind a federal England.In general decentralisation.
It’s up to the UK gov to try be visionary.
The groups you quote are hardly that.
Outlander now running on RTE2
Cracking story
Never mind the quality, feel the width: https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/independence-is-here/
thanks for the info crazy cat.
In my opinion the fact that the Torygraph didn’t give that background could foment unwarranted suspicion which was followed the next day by the daily mail rubbish
the examples for Mr Salmond were just examples I found over the last couple of days – all the SNP MPs in westminster need to be alert to this type of nasty insinuation.
reputations will be destroyed on a rumour/pic/tweet etc if it suits the establishment
SMURPHY the tick parasite politics cant get rid of.
Smurphy after his result you would think he would do the descent thing and just Foff…… but no he’s clinging on as hard as he can to stay.
It doesn’t help when you have all these red blairite Tories coming out of their comas to state he should stay. When you have the likes of Gemma Doyle the wee tory Murray stating he did a good job in the election chucka what’s his name and McConnell all backing him no wonder he is delusional. How does loosing 40 seats and unable to hold your own with a huge majority constitute as having a good election?
Now personally he could stay as far as am concerned cause he’s a useless git but when all these old corrupt labour gits like Henry McLeish start appearing on telly stating he needs to remain insitu well there has to be a reason.
So apparently tonight we got it. Blairite Murphy’s plan is to get rid of the dead labour wood in Holyrood and replace them with the Westminster rejects. Nothing like Labour …..jobs for the boys get your old pals back in a job by altering the rules for the list msp’s for holyrood. Smurphy cant get a place by votes and nobody wants to give up their place for him. So change the rules!
Now he has his severance pay and must get paid for advertising his favourite drink cause he’s never without it on camera he refuses to give up his job as SL leader causes he is sooooooo desperate for money isn’t he? This is what makes him a parasitical tick.His body has been removed but the head is still stuck in the system stubbornly embedded clinging on still trying to suck the blood out of the political system which has been so good for a useless has been that he is.
The guy has no honour clinging onto his own political career because of his own desire for personal self interest and preservation. Which has only proved all the things I’ve said in the past about him. He’s got nowhere else to go so now we’ve still got to suffer the git.
Ps the hard man from the scheme who likes his glue but not out of a crisp bag was out done by none other than Ruth Davidson who said we should all be on crack…….. now that’s hard so Smurphy been out done by a blue Tory yet again.
@ dakk et al – always my point has been that independence for Scotland is independence for all, a free union of peoples responsible for their own affairs – but able to ask in good faith for help when necessary.
dakk – thank you for your reply – those were the quotes that were doing the rounds after the referendum september last when the piece was written.
Admittedly federalism might seem to be an attractive answer to satisfying the demands/needs of devolved regions. And indeed England itself.
but apart from the group quotes, the post explains why the basic principles of federalism as it is generally understood (USA, Germany) would find great difficulty in being applied to the UK.
I haven’t seen any evidence that the Uk gov is going to be “visionary” over the topic but we’ll wait and see.
Until then federalism in the UK seems to be a non-runner to me.
Forget Murphy, he’s an irrelevance.
I think all the focus right now should be on what we actually want at Westminster. And I think we should be aiming higher than just being a voice for Scotland.
We need to look forward and keep looking forward, not back. That old warning about getting caught up in preparing to fight the last war applies just as much to the victors as it does the defeated.
Conditions on the whole are good for securing increased powers — much better than they would otherwise be if we had a Labour government in Downing Street. I’m confident that Nicola and the leadership will do their best and not be fooled, but these Tories are a slippery bunch and it might actually help if we here on Wings focused on the possibilities.
Beyond Westminster, I really hope we can keep the momentum going into next year and remove as many Labour Party affiliates from local councils as possible. Local councils have much more power than most people think — over tendering and contracts and such — and I really believe our economy would benefit massively by cleansing councils of typically corrupt Labour practices.
I want to see Labour wiped out on every level but, strange as it may seem, I also think we should be making overtures to those in the Labour Party who share our core values — autonomy generally, improving the economy, removal of trident, etc.
There’s a lot of people in Scottish Pabour who genuinely mean well and it would do us good to show them some respect and give them encouragement — and it would also help us in terms of winning over more of their support base and getting them to join us.
Onward to victory.
I took the time tonight to catch up on the election night special with Jeremy Vine, Dan Snow and others.
Tasmina was very good but I was struck by the appearance of familiar themes of State propaganda.
The first is that the English desperately want the UK to remain intact without ever saying specifically why. This was a weakness in the Better Together campaign. The truth is that there is one outstanding reason why Westminster wishes to retain control of the UK, but Cameron and crew never talk about it. The reason is obvious – if they say they really only want the vast revenues, even the slumbering Scots No voters will wake up and realise that Westminster’s interest in the Union is no more than an interest in Scotland’s wealth.
The second theme is the ‘country’, as if the UK is a single country with London as it’s Capital City. The SNP are the people who want to ‘break up our country’.
The third theme is the SNP as ‘the enemy’. England is under threat from ‘the enemy’. The SNP must be defeated or overcome. Westminster must weaken ‘the enemy’ and defeat it. No one speaks of Scotland as a friend or neighbour.
Then there are the silences; those subjects which are never raised on any BBC programme. Like Scotland’s right to self-determination. Like Scotland is a country and the Scots a nation. Like Scotland’s vast wealth. Like Scotland is socialist in contrast to the neo-Liberal England. Like the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
The Propaganda War is still in full swing and it’s being waged in every room in Britain with a TV in it.
BTW. Are we planning on having a united Independent Scotland
or a divided Independent Scotland – like the way we are now, and have been for longer than any of us can remember.
If we’re going to be a united Independent country, then someone really ought to come up with a plan to dissipate all the hatred and prejudice that’s still swilling about, whether it be of the sectarian kind or the kind that the Labour movement harbours for the SNP.
Independence may be a wee bit like the Glasgow Science Centre Tower project if they’re not sorted.
@marandaboy “The first is that the English desperately want the UK to remain intact without ever saying specifically why”
I also noticed this. All their reasons for a not vote were based on the perceived “dangers” Scotland faced. Never did they tell us why they wanted us to stay.
While I am here, does anyone know what has happened to Dim Murphy? He was on TV and radio all the time for the last month. He hasn’t made an appearance since the election, which is a pity because this is one of the rare occasions I would be interested in what he has to say.
@scotsbob
Apparently Jim’s been spotted creeping in and out of the back door of the branch office.
The poor wee sowel has turned camera shy 😉
Another antidemocratic stitch up. They do this and wonder why we want independence..
Funny how the Scots media turn a blind eye to Murphy; I’m sure they would have been just as understanding and not bothered Nicola Sturgeon, if, say, the SNP had just lost all their seats in, say, the Holyrood Parliament.
Poor wee mannie. Leave him in peace, eh? Reporters are so noted for the delicate sensitivities and empathy, are they not?
*Irony alert*
Waiting any day now for that Frenchgate denouement….from the Scottish office. (Oh, how we laughed).
Here is a list of things that I think we ought not to care about:
1. Jim Murphy: Unless of course you’re a Labour party supporter.
2. David Mundell’s election: It’s done and dusted and he won fair and square.
Things we should care about:
1. What the Tories have in mind for ‘federalism’
2.How the SNP can be an effective opposition at Westminster
3.how the Scottish government under the SNP can help Scotland to prosper.
I believe we Scots can forget all about a federal system for the UK – for the simple reasons – the English Establishment does not understand the concept, they do not want it and they will never allow it.
England, in fact the UK, is one of the most-centralised nations on this planet. All power flows to and from London. I can think of only two English institutions which allow even a limited amount of power and influence to be exerted from outwith the Imperial Capital: the Church of England, which allows an Archbishop to sit at York, and the Imperial War Museum, which has a northern site at Leeds.
The old Football League used to be centred at Lytham & St Anne’s, deliberately as a counter-weight to London influence, now, it too is governed from the Imperial Capital.
So, since English devolution is unlikely, we will be stuck with this London-based monstrosity of a government and civil service ruling over us; our only choice is to push even harder for Independence.
They will never willingly let us go. I used to think, maybe, the day after the final barrel of oil from Scottish waters comes ashore, they might consider it. Now I am not so sure.
We ought perhaps to look into the history of why exactly the London establishment chose to willingly dismantle: “the Greatest Empire the World has Seen”.
What made them give up on India, most of Africa, the West Indies and sundry other territories which have since gone on to do rather well when freed of the Imperial yoke.
Of course, us living right next door, and with a contrived and shared political system, we will find it harder to be rid of them, but, it can and must be done – but, it will take a wee bit of time.
In this, our 56 MPs are in the vanguard. Historically, the Scottish regiments have been the shock troops of British Imperialism. When they wanted to stick it to any group of (to use Imperial jingoism) “Frogs”, Dagoes”, “Huns”, “fuzzy-wuzzies”, “towel heads” or “darkies” – you would usually find the “Jocks” being sent in to deliver the cold steel which these enemies of England “Don’t like it up ’em Captain Mainwaring, Sir”.
It is up to these fighting 56 to stick it right up ’em at every opportunity.
O/T Noticed latest headline that Tories to introduce new laws for radicalisation and hate speech – bloody hell that’d a hell of a lot of journalists and BBC presenters that are going to have to be given banning orders based in their hate filled writings and commentary of the scots – as Cameron says we have been tolerant too long, or maybe I’ve got that wrong and he means they have been tolerant of the scots too long ????
Robert Peffers at 11.03
Read that post people.
Nailed it Robert. 🙂
O/T BBC GMS Alert – Eleanor Bradford once again banging on about hospitals being busy. No balance as usual and in fact a tad more bitter than her normal bitter self.
From the Courier
“Speaking to the Scotland on Sunday newspaper, one senior source within the party reportedly said that the Prime Minister — returned to power with a slim majority in last week’s general election — “understands the need for a change of approach to Scotland”.
The source said: “It is up to the SNP to say whether they will put down an amendment for full fiscal autonomy to the new Scotland Act but it is possible that we could start giving them what they ask for and then see if they can handle it.”
SEE IF THEY CAN HANDLE IT?
Ever feel like we’re a Red Indian on a reserve?
___________________________________________________________
Sassenach says @12.38pm
Socrates MacSporran , @ 10.32 says
” …Mr Belcrow (or if he isn’t, his successor) is someone the SNP must cultivate…”
Hopefully by getting his name correct for one thing!!!
What?…its…Velcro isnt it? 🙂
___________________________________________________________
Simon Curran @10.35pm
“Anyone think that Cameron could be deliberatly provocative, Tory arrogance gouding the SNP into calling for a new referendum before they really want to?”
YES!
__________________________________________________________
Msean says@10.50pm
“Didn’t know the Labour loss enquiry was going to be on telly 🙂 ”
Bwa… wa…bahahahahahahahaha. 🙂
6 part series set in Bradford in 1969.
trouble at mill! 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLoVF7vcBtY
_____________________________________________
Handclapping@ 11.28pm
“If there are don’t let Lesley Anne know or the blog will break out in total cacophony :D”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDx1q8H-Qug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BXEbdUrsDQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTw7dwfIons
EH?
_____________________________________________________________
@A Mc Ritchie at 12:55
“..jobs for the boys get your old pals back in a job by altering the rules for the list msp’s for holyrood. Smurphy cant get a place by votes and nobody wants to give up their place for him. So change the rules!”
The rules for list MP’s are needing changed, but this is not or cannot be just a party matter, it has to be looked at by the Scottish Parliament and voters must be given the right to vote on who gets to be the list MSP, otherwise we end up with an un elected group of people having a considerable voice in the Scottish Parliament whom no one has ever voted for – just like the house of lords troughers.
Skintybroko says@ 6.14am
“as Cameron says we have been tolerant too long,”
NEVER assume when a Tory says “WE” he’s including US cos he’s not
EVER!
Back up plan just in case?
http://votejimmurphy.com/
I cant get any updates on wings, had no new posts for a couple days, yet there seems to be a new post on the google link to wings, about the new mps. Comments on this post seem to be getting updated though. Anyone any idea what is going on? Wings under attack or a simple tech hitch with either my laptop or the site?
John – your early morning ‘putting the world to rights’ posts are brilliant.
More people should take time to digest opinions rather than reacting immediately.
They might then find that they had more to contribute to the overall topic, which in turn, would be more beneficial to the readers of the comments, instead of the kind of ‘one to one combat’ that we are increasingly seeing. Just a wee ones opinion, okay, 😉
@ John King
First post I look for every morning. 🙂
@ Gillian @ Macart
gee thanks guys, Im trying
even Irene agrees. :)…I think?
1 question or 100 questions, it will make no odds.
They don’t want us there, they only want our land and resources. … Scotland is Westminster’s golden goose in chains………..
@ fionan
I was having trouble with the site yesterday; articles but no comments, or only half the comments and no box for me to post from.
It seems to be all right now.
@ Big Jock @ 7:49 pm
&
@ Robert Peffers @ 10:14 pm
I refer you to:
“IvMoz says: 12 May, 2015 at 8:03 pm
The SNP must go to WM and be tightly drilled.
They must be whipped to within an inch of their life.
They must attend debates & participate in divisions.
Publish these figures as an example of how a SNP MP represents constituents & Scotland.
No ridiculous expense claims or behaviour scandals.
Acting the goat at Scottish questions would be a big stick to beat them with.
Come Holyrood 2016 & possibly Indyref2, the SNP are going to be held to account more than ever.”
Theresa May, should be arrested for hate speech. Religious intolerance. Disobeying her own Laws. Lesser UK. Anither Thatcher clone. Another division. .
Scotland has it’s own Legal system. No Hate Laws in Scotland or religious intolerance. Lesser UK. More division.
Westminster caused the migration situation in Europe. Illegal wars caused migration in Europe. Other European countries have to pick up the mess and destruction. Sort out the costly mess.
Scotland is Westminster’s golden goose in chains
Capercaillie. 😉
Thersa May’s interview on R4 this morning makes my blood run cold. If she represents “British Values” then I reject them in their entirety.
@ John King
Looking at Robert’s post above 11.03.
‘The butterfly effect’
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/chaos-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-18739
@ Macart: I have no post from Robert at that time: can you copy/paste or something?
Some time over last few days folk like Sarwar, Curran and Murphy have have had to box up their stuff and exit the House wondering where those nodding head assistsnts have all vanished to.
Which is nice.
Theresa May: laws to stop people preaching hate and intolerance, OK Terry when are the Tory party and EBC/MSM going to be CHARGED in relation to anti Scottish lies and propaganda?
@Cadogan Enright
Wondered how long it would take for RTE to show Outlander.
In spite of Cameron’s deal with Sony the series can be downloaded from the internet using Peer to Peer file sharing systems such as eMule. Interestingly some episodes are dual language files and English can be selected if you prefer it to Italian or Spanish, Or so I am told.
The whole business of Westminster blocking this series needs to be brought into the open. Preferably before the next elections.
@Fiona,
Agree.What an awful woman and human being.She actually claims that Britain accepts asylum seekers willingly. Not to my knowledge.She should go to the internment camps and have a look around at the misery their asylum brings.This country tries everything they can to sicken and dissuade these people from staying.
I never thought I would see the likes of Thatcher again,but now we have a Government full of Thatcherite clones.
The most awful thing is that there are people who support this move to “cage” these unfortunates in a war zone we ourselves created.
I feel nothing but shame to be part of this “United Kingdom”.
Dunlin platform to be decommissioned as well….it was 12 years overdue in fairness, only built to last 25 years, lasted 37.
Yes, the ‘Scottish’ MSM do seem to be displaying a remarkably pedestrian approach to locating Jim Murphy.
An approach which, as mentioned above, would surely differ if the SNP had lost 40 out of 41 seats and its leader had subsequently vanished.
Perhaps the only means of eventually discovering his whereabouts is to walk up to random people in the street who bear a passing resemblance to Murph (poor sowls) and state, in the manner of a certain radio station, ‘You are the real Jim Murphy and I claim my mansion tax’.
Marcia says: Five days in and still cannot believe the SNP won 56 seat.
Marcia, I am the same, I cannot believe that the Labour Party is NO MORE in Scotland!
Also cannae believe the SNP now have third party status in the UK!!
Prediction: I see a surge in SNP membership over the next five years from English regions as Labour tries to be even more Tory than the Tories. What a disaster WM politics is in, two parties of hubris, greed and vindictiveness.
Here you go Fiona.
“The Speaker can make sure they get less chance to speak in debates on bills raised by others but cannot stop SNP bills and in that case the SNP can return the compliment by refusing to allow other parties to interrupt.
As to questions these can be ignored in open debate but written question must be answered and in a reasonable time.
In Committee the SNP must be well represented according to their numbers and get to chair some committees. Here too the chair can call members but the SNP will have the chair in some committees and repay the compliment.
Then we have votes of confidence and if they are being ignored they raise no confidence. At best they can get rid on those they raise the vote against at worse they can raise so many no confidence votes the government can’t get things done.
I assure you that with 65, (and perhaps some non-SNP support), members they will not be ignored for long.”
How to make procedure and access work for you. 😉
O/T
The National is now to be published every Saturday.
Glad I had faith and subscribed digitally for a year.
The aftershocks keep coming.
And please give to Nepal relief charities. Their aftershocks are very bad.
The decommission work is going out of Scotland. The Scottish Gov has no control over the Scottish Oil sector. Decommissioning work/jobs are being lost.
Get rid of Trident and start Oil exploration work on the West coast to save money create 1/2Million jobs in Glasgow/Ayrshire and the West. Unemployment/poverty could be eradicated in Glasgow/Scotland.
Must admit, when the GE15 results came out I was angry and disappointed with the greens at first for putting up a candidate against Mundell, but there have been plenty comments which have explained how daft it is to blame the greens.
I am suspicious of anyone who continues to try to drive wedges between commenters here from differing political perspectives and even from different football allegiances ( I detest football and don’t understand how people can be so childishly argumentative about a silly game). Especially when they make personal attacks on those like Paula Rose who do so much to enhance wingers cohesiveness during tiffs and spats, and who enliven the group with such colour and humour.
There are those around whose purpose is to disrupt that cohesiveness and to sow distrust among us, so scared are they of Wings’ success. We are on the road to achieving a lifelong dream for so many of us and for so mnay who are no longer with us. My plea is ‘keep the heid, folks’, don’t rise to the bait.
Oops, almost got killed with hammers there! Thankfully remembered in the nick of time 🙂
Tories and FFA … I’ll believe that one when I see it!
They will lie, play for time, abuse our position via the MSM, and they will try some sort of inadequate fudge, again.
FFA is crystal clear. the hint is in the ‘Full’ bit. All national finance carried out in Scotland and a cheque handed over to WM for defence and foreign affair. Of course it has to be accompanied with DevoMax so everything other than defence and foreign affairs is dealt with in Holyrood.
However, I can already feel a different slant being put on it. The hint here is in phrases like ‘the money Holyrood spends’. They will try to fob us off, again, with DevoNoSoMuch. And the Fiscal Autonomy package they envisage will sufficient tax raising to pay for just the DevoNotSoMuch.
WM thinks and plans short term. Their objective will be to simply keep the Union intact for another 5 years. After that, it will be the next government’s problem …. or attitudes in Scotland will change and the ‘Scottish Problem’ diminishes, again.
Beware the snake in the Westminster lawn!
The SNP group will have two question at Westminster (UK) question time every week. Westminster Question Time is a total controlled farce. Comedy half hour. The real work is done in the committees and the voting lobbies.
Nicola could create a Law banning Tories politicians in Scotland. No need the electorate has done that already.
I was at the first branch meeting since March, they were suspended for campaign. Great turnout, and Cumbernauld proud to have polled the 3rd largest majority for our MP.
The office bearers said they simply couldn’t believe the campaign, and never seen anything like it. They worked damn hard, but had great assistance, one said they almost had a party rep in every street to leaflet, which freed people to focus on other things. It was a good debrief, with great chat about starting work for next year, and ideas etc.
The long standing office bearers also said they will never take one vote for granted, and will always work at this pace to prove themselves.
Big round of applause, of course.
Have to agree with fellow wingers, It truly is astounding having 56 seats. After decades of voting for the SNP and seeing us getting hammered at elections and my dad also seeing disappointment for nigh on 50 years of voting for the party it is amazing. Any newbies recently politically engaged this is seismic. We should be celebrating more!
The Westminster snake has to beware an Referendum which will be won, very soon. Keep the faith. Nicola, Alex and Co know exactly what they are dealing with. Never trust a Tory. The venom.
@ Macart: thanks. Don’t know why the post did not appear on my screen. It is interesting and I am glad you reposted.
Wonder how many others are missing
Robert Kerr @8.55
“The whole business of Westminster blocking this series needs to be brought into the open. Preferably before the next elections.”
I’m struggling to understand the mindset that sees a tv programme as somehow a threat to the union, or indeed the mindset that complains it wasn’t shown as it would somehow have proven advantageous to the YES vote anymore that an American tv station running “The Alamo” on an endless loop in Texas would make the people of San Antonio hate the Mexicans any more or less than they do now,
The only people I can really see that narrative playing to is the YES equivalent of the Geniuses who were videoed at a Forfar v Rangers game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGjiokfQ2A
sadly they do exist but they are not of us, are they?
hilarious #CallKaye
Labour voters calling up saying ditch FPTP
Kenny says @9.11am
“Marcia, I am the same, I cannot believe that the Labour Party is NO MORE in Scotland!”
Well Kenny they’re not actually no more, they still have in Edinburgh south MP but I see him as nothing more than a drain to allow the blood from all the “BAYONETING” to drain away. 🙂
ps
Did Willie Bain ever get in to take his cactus home?
Dont worry answering that anyone, I dont really care. 😉
bookie, kippers are also raging at FPTP, of course. Of course, there was a very low response to changing the electoral system in 2011, but now it’s top priority.
Not for Cameron, of course.
People are going to have to get off their ass, if they want to change things, that’s what Scotland did, and I really hope it never dissipates.
Macart @8.45
“@ John King
Looking at Robert’s post above 11.03.
‘The butterfly effect’
Been there Sam already left a comment, great stuff btw.
Eleanor Bradford is the only credible opposition in Scotland which Boothman has left. We need somebody to spill the beans on the Pacific Quay Star Chanmber.
Valerie,
“The long standing office bearers also said they will never take one vote for granted,”
Indeed. We must remember that there was only a small % increase in the vote compared to Holyrood 2010. It is only the FPTP system that makes it look such a spectacular win.
John-not the brightest those gers fans eh? Dearie me. Don’t know how some of our fellow wingers can mingle with those cretins at Ibrox. Beats me.
@ galamcennalath 9.31
Again, I think you have to wait until proposals materialise. I am sure that the government will consult with Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond to establish what is wanted.
Inevitably, because of party political necessities, there will be a perceived gap between what is asked for – and what is offered (i.e. let’s be honest, there is no way that Ms Sturgeon is ever going to stand up on a platform and say “that the government has “listened” and met all of the SNP’s demands!)”. That is just the way it is.
There are elements in your comments that I could paraphrase as “let’s not detail what we want or accept any further devolution/autonomy/FFA – because it is all a Tory plot to trap us!”
Stu, with the appalling behaviour of the new Tory government less than a week after the election, especially May this morning, although the list is endless…
… might be a good time to ram home to all NO voters why we are NOT better together and why a NO vote was the disaster for Scotland everyone predicted it would be.
We need to get the opinion polls for indy (now currently around 50%) up to be a good, constant 55%, as this will be a very powerful tool in the hands of the SNP at Westminster.
Ministerial statement from the FM at approx 14:40hrs today in Holyrood.
Democracy live : will get you there.
PS:
Some talk of devolving National Insurance £9bn to Scotland in a few places. I’ll need to get myself up to speed with all the ‘little things, like that.
🙂
Glad folk are posting appreciation at what’s been achieved. Think of our expectations this time last week.
Things will never be the same again.
@KEN
Where do you see the decommissioning work is going to Holland?
I know I’m being a bit impatient, but can we just skip to May 2016 already.
@ john king 9:45 am
… I just followed your link!
OMG!
They said that the SNP broke the Holyrood voting system in 2011, now apparently they have broken the Westminster system.
Hmm, I wonder if there’s anything else that needs broken up.
@ manandboy says:
13 May, 2015 at 1:28 am
The first is that the English desperately want the UK to remain intact without ever saying specifically why. This was a weakness in the Better Together campaign. The truth is that there is one outstanding reason why Westminster wishes to retain control of the UK, but Cameron and crew never talk about it. The reason is obvious – if they say they really only want the vast revenues, even the slumbering Scots No voters will wake up and realise that Westminster’s interest in the Union is no more than an interest in Scotland’s wealth.
All your points are spot on manandboy, but this first point about revenues is in my view key to how we exploit the media access assured by those fantastic 56 MPs in future.
During the referendum campaign I found the majority of folk I managed to convert to Yes were shocked into breaking their cosy “No” belief system (that we are dependent on big brother for our very existence) when you posed the question “why do you think the UK government wants us to stay?”. Apart from “because we’re better/stronger together/ we’re too small etc”, there was never any substantive answer forthcoming. So when they were told “it’s for our money of course, why else?” and then a brief explanation of what I meant by that, you could almost see the light bulb going on.
So I think a simple repetition at any and every opportunity by our MPs of that fact will help to normalise the belief that: of course it’s all about money, of course Scotland is wealthy; of course rUK needs Scotland for the money. Any challenge to these statements will open up the further opportunity to discuss the figures which prove these statements.
I think this is the single most important thing which could be achieved by their presence as it will in turn help significantly bring the additional support in Scotland for a Yes vote next time round. There are of course lots of other important things they can and will do during their term in office and I for one have never felt so happy and proud to have such competent and motivated representation for the first time in Westminster. There is a helluva difference in having MPs who actually believe in their cause compared to those who go through the motions of saying what they have been taught to say by party bosses.
And to any of them who might dislike the working environment in Westminster, I’d say: get tore in, do your job to the best of your ability and after one term it’ll be out of there for good!
”Papadox at 8:54 am
Theresa May: laws to stop people preaching hate and intolerance, OK Terry when are the Tory party and EBC/MSM going to be CHARGED in relation to anti Scottish lies and propaganda?”
Yeah Papadox talk about hypocracy. They’re also going to be ‘clearing out’ the BBC no doubt to replace Labour propagandists with their own.
I’ve been listening to the Victoria Derbyshire discussion this morning about Theresa May insisting that ‘Britain’ must pull out of the European Convention on Human Rights to enable deportation of dangerous foreign criminals.
Two of the Government’s opposers to this, Attorney General Dominic Grieve, (the Government’s most senior legal adviser since 2010) and Cabinet minister Kenneth Clarke were conveniently sacked in the Prime Minister’s reshuffle earlier this summer, removing the main internal obstacles to reform.
What was really interesting and extremely worrying was that the discussion moved on from this enabling them not only to deport ‘dangerous foreign criminals’ to being able to deal with ‘neo Nazis’ in the Country.
MmmmHhhh! Wonder what group of people in the UK are deemed to be ‘neo Nazis’ by the Tories (and Mr Smart et al)?
Theresa May is talking of pulling out of the UN altogether. This means that there will be, as ONE example, no scrutiny by the UN over systemic violations of disability rights under the Tory party.
‘The United Kingdom has become the first country to face a high-level inquiry by the United Nations committee responsible for oversight of disability rights into charges of “grave or systemic violations” of disabled people’s rights.’
This is an interesting article that highlights some Human Rights areas that would be ‘scrapped’ under Tory rule.
the Dark Ages as the Tories plan to scrap your Human Rights
https://mikesivier.wordpress.com/ 2013/ 03/ 10/ back-to-the-dark-ages-as-the-tories-plan-to-scrap-your-human-rights/
Pulling out of the UN and the EU, if it happens, may put the last nail in their coffin as far as the Scots are concerned.
I’ve tentatively switched on Radio Scotland and BBC news to see if anything has changed after our fantastic victory of 56 SNP MPs now in Westminster.
No. Nothing has changed. Still hammering the NHS in Scotland etc. They are now in pre 2016 Holyrood Elections mode!
Let’s get to it folks!
@John O says: 13 May, 2015 at 12:00 am:
“The shadow secretary of state for Scotland does not represent the people of Scotland, he has no mandate to do so, the title in itself is fake.
As the only secretary of state for Scotland who has any power is the one appointed by the sitting UK government.”
While you are 100% correct, John O, You are only highlighting one symptom of a complex disease and thus any treatment you care to prescribe will, like the common cold, do no more than alleviate the effects of that one particular symptom that you have identified. It cannot cure the disease.
Until we recognize the disease and cure it, we are only making the patient feel better, by treating a symptom, but leaving him/her still suffering all the other symptoms of the disease.
The disease is that Westminster has become the, (unelected as such), de facto Parliament of England and it is thus devolving English Powers to three subservient countries under the guise of being still the United Kingdom’s Parliament.
So if it is indeed the UK parliament, and all members are UK members, why are those 533 UK members from English constituencies attempting to classify certain things as English Only matters when England has no elected parliament and thus no elected English parliamentarians nor thus English only matters?
And that, John O is the disease we need to cure to salivated every last symptom of that terminal illness we all suffer from at present.
Wha’s like us?………….
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/may/13/could-this-be-the-worlds-most-efficient-solar-electricity-system
Lets all help a bit – https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bella-caledonia
Lots of posts arguing why Westminster wants to keep control of Scotland – one obvious reason is trade competition.
Some of the loudest yelps came on the issue of tax relief for businesses, their dismissal of that more alarm than anything else – the ‘rush to the bottom’ argument.
Having a robust competitor on your doorstep is a no-no.
So much for the ‘competition is good for us’ mantra of the free market system. All western companies backed by their governments fight hard to ensure they get the best of any deal – it’s in their genes.
I see a few Tory troll heads have exploded over on the Groaniard because the SNP have said they will not ratify scrapping the Human Rights Act at Holyrood. Thousands of posts on the topic. You would think this is something that Labour would want to weigh in on but a fair number of English commenters saying Thank God for the SNP.
Robert Peffers 10.57
You wrote: “So if it is indeed the UK parliament, and all members are UK members, why are those 533 UK members from English constituencies attempting to classify certain things as English Only matters when England has no elected parliament and thus no elected English parliamentarians nor thus English only matters?
Quite simply Robert, because some matters are only relevant to people that live in England. It really isn’t more complicated than that.
EVEL is simply an efficient and cheap solution to the issue. Why do you find that so hard to comprehend?
@john king
“they still have in Edinburgh south MP but I see him as nothing more than a drain to allow the blood from all the “BAYONETING” to drain away.”
Incidentally, I still have a few “Red Tories Out!” stickers left if anyone in Edinburgh South wants them 😉
O/T
http://www.lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu
Thomas Jefferson’s instructions to Lewis June 1803 regarding the Native North American Indian
‘In all your intercourse with the natives,treat them in the most friendly and conciliatory manner which their own conduct will permit’
America is your new father
Lewis held out Jefferson the American nation as the ‘only friend you could look to for protection’
‘But Lewis’s word had an edge of threat as well,if river Indians ignored American orders and followed the ‘bad birds’ trade would be cut off and there would be much suffering.
I cannot get DC one nation speech out of my head,I need to go for walk to clear my head.
On the BBC, I think the election result must make them question if they are even relevant to Labour any more. Does any one listen to their constant lobbying in favour of their preferred party? Does the constant SNP=bad do anything other than annoy people now?
There’s about as much chance of this, or any Westminster government, devolving FFA as we understand it, or broadcasting, to Scotland as there is of me winning the lottery, and I don’t do the lottery.
chalks @ 10.30
I don’t know about de-commissioning work going to Holland, but I’m led to beieve that the all new singing and dancing barge that will be able to remove the platforms to yards for dismantling will be almost fully manned by Filipinos and what pay rates will they be on?? Remembering that Unite has already agreed in recent years to OK the use of Filipino labour in projects offshore.
Also it is my understanding that de-commissioning will not cost the oil companies very much with the bulk being paid by the tax payers!!
@Petra 10:51am
Where have you seen/heard Theresa May say the UK would pull out of the UN?
I can’t imaging the Tories foregoing their “rightful place” at the top table.
Sensible Dave, I think you will find that by using your cheap solution that you will reward us with the very thing that Dave fought to retain last Septembe. I am sure Robert will explain this to you much more thoroughly than I can.
The Observer:
Much gnashing of teeth in the ‘Ed-less’ labour party darn South.
Maybe the might have a leader by October…
Too boring to read unless you want to intrude into party grieving.
Dim Jim not on their horizon, there’s a film about a guy trapped in an airport lounge’ is he still behind the drawn blinds at Glasgow branch office?….but I digress..
I’ll pick out this little nugget and move on.
————————————————————-
In one of the least restrained responses to the election defeat, Michael Dugher, the shadow transport secretary, said the party’s approach to the Scottish independence referendum “was an unmitigated disaster. We totally fucked up that referendum campaign – and that would almost be a generous and kind interpretation”.
He told the New Statesman magazine: “There was a highly visible elephant trap that the SNP set for us, which is that Labour and [the ‘no’ campaign] would be for the status quo, for Westminster, for London, for the old political establishment and elites – and Scottish Labour all joined hands and they jumped into that elephant trap.
He added: “We shouldn’t have been in bed with the Tories. It was a complete strategic disaster. It killed us.”
—————————————————–
https://archive.is/vBeje
Onescot@10.31
Bugger that onescot, if we’re going to cut to anything let’s cut to the chase and the day of independence.
@highseastim says:
13 May, 2015 at 11:26 amchalks @ 10.30
I don’t know about de-commissioning work going to Holland, but I’m led to beieve that the all new singing and dancing barge that will be able to remove the platforms to yards for dismantling will be almost fully manned by Filipinos and what pay rates will they be on?? Remembering that Unite has already agreed in recent years to OK the use of Filipino labour in projects offshore.
Also it is my understanding that de-commissioning will not cost the oil companies very much with the bulk being paid by the tax payers!!
Yeh, that is Shell that is doing that with the brents. No idea if it is full of filipino’s or not I’m afraid.
CNR’s Murchison platform was scheduled to be getting decommissioned over a fixed amount of time, that scope has now changed but I see nothing about the work being moved to Holland, know a few guys that have been made redundant because of it, but they haven’t mentioned anything about the work going to holland.
http://www.cnri-northsea-decom.com/
Nor is there any news about the most recent decomissioning announcement going to Holland….that being Fairfields Energy’s Dunline platform, which is a shit-hole.
http://www.tcetoday.com/latest%20news/2015/may/fairfield-plans-dunlin-fields-decommissioning.aspx
Regarding tax, correct, the UK gov has said it will contribute money towards the decommissioning, they made that deal a long time ago I think, it’s only fair really, the UK oil companies are amongst the most taxed in the world and the UK treasury/gov policy has set back the oil industry and not let it realise it’s full potential over the past 40 years.
https://www.gov.uk/oil-and-gas-decommissioning-of-offshore-installations-and-pipelines
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/190266/consult_responses_decommissioning_relief_deeds_111112.pdf
Re-elephant trap. What other option did “Scottish” labour have? Sit on the fence or come out for yes? Either way they would have lost their troughs. In any case they had to do what UK Labour told them. Hardly a trap set by the SNP.
https://archive.is/uwshA
Awe:-)
Save the creep!
@ Helena Brown 11.33
… on the basis that you can’t tell me what the problem, and have to defer to Robert, suggests that it is going to be a very complicated answer to a not very significant problem.
I found this:
“A crude analysis by Anna Powell-Smith for mySociety suggests that only 21 out of nearly 5,000 divisions in the House of Commons since 1997 would have produced a different result if the votes of Scottish MPs had been excluded. The most controversial issues were the introduction of foundation hospitals in 2003 (when 61 Labour MPs rebelled), and the raising of student tuition fees to £3000 in 2004. But admittedly this analysis covers a period when the Blair governments enjoyed a comfortable majority in England as well as across the UK, so we would not expect the votes of Scottish MPs to have made much difference”.
I really don’t see the problem.
@sensibledave says: 13 May, 2015 at 8:39 am
“@ Big Jock @ 7:49 pm
&
@ Robert Peffers @ 10:14 pm
I refer you to:
“IvMoz says: 12 May, 2015 at 8:03 pm”
AND … ?
The biggest truth about the Tories is that they take from the poor and give to the rich. They SAY we’re better together, but their ACTIONS of greed-backed austerity means that we are much worse off together.
GE15 was a brilliant victory by the Scottish Electorate, and everyone who voted SNP, should be rightly proud of the win and of the 56 MP’s we sent in our name to make our voice heard loudly for once in Westminster. But to get that win, we had to withstand a hail of lies, smears and insults, the likes of which has rarely been seen or heard. But it would be a mistake to put away our shields – or was it ear plugs. In fact, it might be better to get bigger ones. In the face of such an historic defeat for Unionism in GE15, the propaganda war can only intensify.
Fronted by the Tory cabinet, the British State continues to wage a full blown media war against Scotland. In the main, it is a war of words; translated, that means a war of lies.
If it is not already blindingly obvious, it is extremely difficult to process lies inside your head, unless the truth is already installed. For example, when David Cameron speaks vaguely of more powers for Scotland, there is no truth to hang on to in what he says, and we are left slightly bewildered and discomfited – and disadvantaged.
We need to develop our strategy of not listening, using perhaps an old adage or two – ‘they are only in it for the money’, and ‘actions speak louder than words’. In the war of lies, we will lose ground every time we believe even one Cameron lie. Best to believe NOTHING of what he says, and to rely exclusively on the evidence of actions alone.
If we fight this propaganda war on Cameron’s terms, then we will be fighting on treacherous boggy ground. Remember Culloden. We need to take the fight to higher ground, made firm underfoot by solid evidence and the known moves made by the Government. It’s time to grow our reputation as canny Scots.
So let the English Govt. and the English media fire their poisoned arrows. They shall not touch us as long as our ears and minds are shielded by the truth that they are only in it for the money and that actions speak louder than words. The biggest truth about the Tories is that they take from the poor and give to the rich. They SAY we’re better together, but their greed-backed austerity policy means that we are much worse off together.
‘…the question is not whether democracy will rob property owners of their property, but whether propertied interests will rob common men of their chief weapon of defense against exploitation, democracy’ (Lippincott, 1938)
Can’t you feel the fear factor diffusing through WM? The democratisation of our Mother of all Parliaments and the ruling elite who have up until now have used their material wealth and privileged access to those who hold power to overwhelm the 99%.
It will no longer be an iterated exchange of favours between self serving individuals worshipping the cult of stinginess and arrogance- we have the 56 who will sweep along with their particular ideology of equality (with the support of YES movement) who will secure to the people the good government they wish for.
Scary for the 1% emboldening for the 99% in the battle for taxation with representation in the interplay of growth, inequality and the politics of democratisation .
Interesting to note that we have also broken the closed communications network and resultant influence that this brought.
The closed shop, old boys club is breached. We now know our representatives well and have direct access to them.
Keep communications channels open and make sure that the MP we helped get elected get to hear our thoughts, priorities and praise!
Fellow true Scots,lets just wait and let the tory effect over the next five years take its toll on our country.They wont be able to help themselves as it is their nature to hurt us.
Softly softly catchee monkey.
@Flower of Scotland,
I agree with your post and would just like to mention that it’s becoming quite obvious that our various unionist enemies have already kicked off the Indyref2 campaign with several snidey anti-Scottish remarks online.
Let’s not let them set the agenda, let’s not get put on the back foot.
Let’s get intae them!
@galamcennalath says: 13 May, 2015 at 9:31 am:
” … WM thinks and plans short term. Their objective will be to simply keep the Union intact for another 5 years.”
What many people don’t realise is the main plank of, “The Establishment”, is the upper echelons of the Civil Service. “Yes Minister”, is a lot closer to the real truth than most folks think.
It really is the professional Civil Servants in Whitehall that run the United Kingdom – not the part time amateurs in Downing Street and Westminster. These people in the Civil Servicer do not change after an election and the heads of each department run the Ministries. George Osborne doesn’t do the budget calculations and produce what is in effect the company books of GB&N.I. plc.
You can read about the grades of the Civil Service Here : –
http://www.civilservant.org.uk/information-grades_and_roles.html
The likes of Osborne can dictate the Government’s Policy but they really don’t do the work and wise Government Ministers take the advice they are given by their Civil Service Head of Department.
After all a Minister could fall out of favour of the Prime Minister and be dropped and replaced for no better reason that the PM didn’t like her/him.
So really, what the SNP are taking on at Westminster includes the Civil Service and you know what happened when the Civil Service top man ditched his integrity and took sides. He should be called before the Commons and dismissed – I doubt he ever will.
Robert Peffers 12:42 pm
AND … ?
Robert, I had pointed out, in response to an early comment about how SNP MPs would conduct themselves at Westminster that I thought (i.e. my personal opinion) that the SNP MPs will actually conduct themselves in a manner almost exactly the opposite to some here were suggesting they might – because I think Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond are very clever and will instruct them to.
I simply referenced “IvMoz” as someone else (i.e. someone who wasn’t me) that wasn’t just thinking that the SNP will conduct themselves in a particular manner – but was advocating that approach. For example, IvMoz wrote: “…The SNP must go to WM and be tightly drilled. They must be whipped to within an inch of their life….”
Robert, you and I might disagree on many things but I don’t think this is one of them.
@call me dave says: 13 May, 2015 at 10:24 am:
“Ministerial statement from the FM at approx 14:40hrs today in Holyrood.
Democracy live : will get you there.
Perhaps the better option is Holyrood TV.
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/
That link has no biased presenters.
Clever Nicola, holding talks with the Trade Unions about opposing austerity!
On the day the rail unions are striking. The Trade Unions must be casting around looking for value for money, and it ain’t in UK Labour. When you think about it, the old school trade unionists must be completely sick.
Valerie: trade unionists must be completely sick.
Completely without representation, disenfranchised.
@sensibledave says: 13 May, 2015 at 11:16 am:
“Quite simply Robert, because some matters are only relevant to people that live in England. It really isn’t more complicated than that.”
Yep! You really are as simple as I suspected.
Has it not occurred to you that Westminster is “The United Kingdom Parliament”? Thus every last elected person there is a member of, “The United Kingdom Parliament”, and there are no such things as either an elected, “Member of the Parliament of England”, nor is there an elected, “Parliament of England”, to have them elected to?
If numpties like you want a parliament of England then the best way to get it is get it to hell out of the United Kingdom parliament. A great place to site it is in the abolished House of Lords.
The fact that The United Kingdom Parliament has become the de facto parliament of England is why the UK lost Southern Ireland, will soon lose Scotland and I’m certain our Welsh brethren will follow we Scots out.
After which you can pretend to be whatever you wish with everyone else’s blessings but when we all leave you behind, and the Yanks and Europeans also tell you where to go as you then have nothing they want, don’t come crying to the people you have tried to dominate. For by then it will be far too late.
In fact I am of the opinion it is already too late to save the Union. Your arrogance and idiotic attempts to be superior are actually quite pathetic. You disgrace the normal, fair minded and likeable people of England.
@Helena Brown says: 13 May, 2015 at 11:33 am
” … I am sure Robert will explain this to you much more thoroughly than I can.
I think you may have sussed me out, Helena.
What was it gave me away? ROTFL
Is it just me or is Muriel Gray the thickest most ill informed social commentator on the blogosphere! She complains because there is no left anymore in the UK, or Scotland.
Has she read one policy that the SNP have produced. Does she just see SNP and close her eyes. She says the SNP are just a protest vote! She voted no and then complains that we have a Tory government. Scotland as part of the UK could not stop it!
Muriel please stop spouting your ill informed garbage!
@Robert Peffers 1:42pm
trying to watch and listen right now but the stream keeps breaking and being fed “potter’s wheel” type in-fill video and music.
Not very promising.
It’s now gone off completely.
Right O/T.
I see the NLC Chief Executive Gavin Whitefield (£137,807.36 pa plus performance-related pay of £11,395.26) has announced his intention to retire.
I hope in these days of austerity NLC take care when appointing a replacement. We’ve had enough of this “you’ve got to pay a high salary to attract the best”.
They should also remember that the Local Council elections are in 2017 and Holyrood elections are next year. The electorates memory is improving, they didn’t forget “better together” they won’t forget any major mistakes now ( Mears anyone?)
@sensibledave says: 13 May, 2015 at 12:06 pm:
“@ Helena Brown 11.33
… on the basis that you can’t tell me what the problem, and have to defer to Robert, suggests that it is going to be a very complicated answer to a not very significant problem.”
And:
I really don’t see the problem.
There you go, Sensibledave, You answered your own question.
Thing is, while you really don’t see the problem, the recent election results clearly show, a majority of Scots have now awoken to the facts we old independence supporters have recognized all our adult lives.
The union was always been legally a bipartite marriage between equally sovereign kingdoms but began with perfidious actions by the English suitor and ended with threatening military actions on our borders and even bloody conflict between 1 May 1707 and 1745 and then followed with many long years of an abusive marriage that will soon end in divorce.
It is significantly true that the analogy of abusive marriage usually has the abusive marriage partner also saying they see, “No significant problem”, but as a famous person involved in a previous Westminster scandal said, “Well they would say that – wouldn’t they”?, (Mandy Rice Davies).
“SNP must…be tightly drilled…whipped to within an inch of their life.”
Have I wandered onto one of those kind of sites my friends used to warn me about?
Fan my brow!
Anent the Pacific Quay demo, postponed from the election campaign. I trust this will still be going ahead. Boothman’s Bitches, and I make it eight of them of both sexes, will have to go if BBC Scotland can be considered at all fair & balanced. They all have too much form to try and re-brand themselves. Into the Clyde with the lot of them, lowered into a boat with a hole in the bottom, Pacific Kaye first in. I’d pay good money to see that. 🙂
Tinto Chiel -“SNP must…be tightly drilled…whipped to within an inch of their life.”
50 shades of tartan? 😉
@sensibledave says: 13 May, 2015 at 1:40 pm:
“Robert, I had pointed out, in response to an early comment about how SNP MPs would conduct themselves at Westminster that I thought (i.e. my personal opinion) that the SNP MPs will actually conduct themselves in a manner almost exactly the opposite to some here were suggesting they might – because I think Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond are very clever and will instruct them to.
Sensibledave, you really just don’t get it. I have already and at length, pointed out that the SNP will behave at Westminster as they always have. Within the rules and with dignity. I also answered those who thought they would be gagged and shut out by the Establishment.
The first part of that is they will do so within the rules and with dignity. They will first attempt to make Scotland’s , (and the working class of the whole UK’s), case in the normal manner and will allow the Established parties the opportunity to be fair and reasonable.
If, however, the establishment treats them in the manner they have treated the last few SNP members in the house, then they will adopt tactics that, within the house rules, will bring much pressure to bear upon both Government & their Labour opposition.
I even showed the William Waldegrove/Alex Salmond incident when Alex used proper procedure to force Waldegrove into showing that Scotland actually subsidises England and showed how an opposition can use House procedure to make sure they get proper chances to participate in the business of parliament.
If they don’t like getting back what they have always dished out then, like you, they know what to do about it.
@Jim Thomson says: 13 May, 2015 at 2:30 pm:
“trying to watch and listen right now but the stream keeps breaking and being fed “potter’s wheel” type in-fill video and music.
No problem here, Jim, but the next best alternative is the Parliament Channel, (Channel 131). They don’t show all the Scottish Parliament stuff but I think it is the same Holyrood Parliament TV cameras they show – No Big Brian or other biased stuff.
@ Robert Peffers 2:17 pm
You wrote: “Has it not occurred to you that Westminster is “The United Kingdom Parliament”? Thus every last elected person there is a member of, “The United Kingdom Parliament”, and there are no such things as either an elected, “Member of the Parliament of England”, nor is there an elected, “Parliament of England”, to have them elected to?”
Yep. I am fully cognisant of all that – but it has no relevance. I’m genuinely unsure what point you are trying to make. Are you arguing that it is “unfair” to implement the English MP’s veto, or are you arguing it is impossible to implement? If the latter, then we should both sit tight and wait and see if the impossible happens. It is in the Conservative Manifesto. Pages 71 through 74.
Then you wrote:
“If numpties like you want a parliament of England then the best way to get it is get it to hell out of the United Kingdom parliament. A great place to site it is in the abolished House of Lords. The fact that The United Kingdom Parliament has become the de facto parliament of England is why the UK lost Southern Ireland, will soon lose Scotland and I’m certain our Welsh brethren will follow we Scots out.”
As stated numerous times, and please try to take this on board, we don’t need a Parliament for England at the moment, so I think that lets me off the “numptie” tag. Depending on where we end up with Scotland’s governance though, that may change in the longer term. With regards to Welsh Independence, when over 50% (currently 12%) of the Welsh want Independence – then, personally, I think they should have it.
Then you wrote:
“After which you can pretend to be whatever you wish with everyone else’s blessings but when we all leave you behind, and the Yanks and Europeans also tell you where to go as you then have nothing they want, don’t come crying to the people you have tried to dominate. For by then it will be far too late.”
If indeed, Scotland, Wales and NI Ireland “all leave us behind”, then we will just have to manage on our own, simple as that. As for your statement “the people you have tried to dominate”, who is the “you”? If the “you” is “me” Robert, then you are projecting again.
Finally you wrote:
In fact I am of the opinion it is already too late to save the Union. Your arrogance and idiotic attempts to be superior are actually quite pathetic. You disgrace the normal, fair minded and likeable people of England.
Point me to an “arrogant” statement Robert. This whole subset of the thread has, once again, ended up with you desperately forecasting/hoping that England will suffer some sort of retribution for things that happened 300 years ago.
If the Union goes then so be it. I have told you repeatedly that if any country wants to leave the Union then, personally, I think they should go with the good wishes of any of us left. I have held that position since my first comments here on WoS.
If the majority of voters in Scotland had voted “Yes” then we wouldn’t even be having this conversation and we would be working towards the outcome that you, personally, want. Do you not see the silliness of shouting at me, an Englishman, because you were outvoted by your country folk in Scotland? I have told you repeatedly, that I, personally don’t mind one way or the other, whether Scotland votes for Independence or not, and yet you continually project all sorts of notions with respect to what I supposedly want – that are just falsehoods.
It looks like we may be getting control over national insurance and minimum wage. Well it’s a start! If we can get this fast tracked, then it gives the Scottish Government more responsibiity and clout.
Meanwhile Mundell still thinks the Smith proposls are fine!
@ Robert Peffers at 3:38 pm
You wrote: “Has it not occurred to you that Westminster is “The United Kingdom Parliament”? Thus every last elected person there is a member of, “The United Kingdom Parliament”, and there are no such things as either an elected, “Member of the Parliament of England”, nor is there an elected, “Parliament of England”, to have them elected to?”
Yep. I am fully cognisant of all that – but it has no relevance. I’m genuinely unsure what point you are trying to make. Are you arguing that it is “unfair” to implement the English MP’s veto, or are you arguing it is impossible to implement? If the latter, then we should both sit tight and wait and see if the “impossible” happens. It is in the Conservative Manifesto. Pages 71 through 74.
Then you wrote:
“If numpties like you want a parliament of England then the best way to get it is get it to hell out of the United Kingdom parliament. A great place to site it is in the abolished House of Lords. The fact that The United Kingdom Parliament has become the de facto parliament of England is why the UK lost Southern Ireland, will soon lose Scotland and I’m certain our Welsh brethren will follow we Scots out.”
As stated numerous times, we don’t need a Parliament for England at the moment, so I think that lets me off the “numptie” tag. Depending on where we end up with Scotland’s governance though, that may change in the longer term. With regards to Welsh Independence, when over 50% (currently 12%) of the Welsh want Independence – then, personally, I think they should have it.
Then you wrote:
“After which you can pretend to be whatever you wish with everyone else’s blessings but when we all leave you behind, and the Yanks and Europeans also tell you where to go as you then have nothing they want, don’t come crying to the people you have tried to dominate. For by then it will be far too late.”
If indeed, Scotland, Wales and NI Ireland “all leave us behind”, then we will just have to manage on our own, simple as that. As for your statement “the people you have tried to dominate”, who is the “you”? If the “you” is “me” Robert, then you are projecting again.
Finally you wrote:
“In fact I am of the opinion it is already too late to save the Union. Your arrogance and idiotic attempts to be superior are actually quite pathetic. You disgrace the normal, fair minded and likeable people of England”.
I have no idea what you are talking about. If there is something specific that leads you to those conclusions then please direct me.
What a ridiculous situation! Doesn’t this illustrate perfectly why we wanted to split from Westminster in the first place? They will gloat for now because they can gag us a for a wee while but soon enough people all over the UK will see for themselves the true arrogance and chicanery of the Westminster establishment.
Valerie
As a RMT member, but not in the rail section, I believe they are correct in taking action for the pittance they have been offered, whist all these privatised rail companies are raking in millions, and looking to cut guards and catering staff on trains and at stations, closing ticket offices, god help us if that happens and we have to suffer another terrorist attack!!