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The Little Country That Lost Its Mind

Posted on August 05, 2022 by

So this just happened.

Which even in the hopelessly politically-debased world of the modern Scottish judiciary might be one of the most extraordinary miscarriages of justice in the nation’s history.

Because what Dave Llewelyn actually did was quote George Galloway’s own words.

He didn’t just say it once, either.

He then went on to found “Alliance For Unity” (later “All For Unity”), a political party which saw Galloway ally himself actively and directly with the Tories, to the extent that he personally voted for them.

But finding examples of George Galloway doing political U-turns is about as hard as – well, we better not say “shooting fish in a barrel”, eh? We don’t want to be accused of hate crimes against fish, especially as the First Minister shares a name with one. Let’s say “spotting Protestants at Ibrox”.

The fact that Galloway subsequently DID the very thing he said people should shoot him for isn’t even the point. The point is that Dave Llewelyn was simply quoting his own words back at him satirically.

The trial judge knew that full well, yet astoundingly still handed down a guilty verdict (there was no jury to laugh at the absurdity of it all, which may explain the alacrity with which the Scottish Government is trying to do away with them).

Dave Llewelyn could now face imprisonment as some sort of dangerous terrorist, and if pointing out that George Galloway is a ludicrous buffoon makes you a terrorist then pretty much everyone in Britain is in a lot of trouble.

So whatever you do, don’t tell him to poke his own eyes out

or he’ll grass you right up to the rozzers and then issue lengthy statements to the media about how horrified and frightened George Galloway was by the terrible things George Galloway said about committing violence on the person of George Galloway, and then inexplicably forgot about.

We’ll be honest, readers – this morning we were sure that this would be the most embarrassing and ludicrous story about Scottish justice we’d see today:

But our country is now such a banana-republic joke that in the end it wasn’t even a close second.

Dave Llewelyn’s card was marked, of course, as soon as he drew the ire of the SNP’s heir apparent and his fragrant wife.

Mrs Robertson is the leader of a PR company with a strikingly large catalogue of awards in its short history and which employs 13 full-time staff (mostly identical-looking young women) despite having assets of just £15,000.

And we’re sure these events are unconnected to the inexplicable presence of Crown Agent David Harvie at Llewelyn’s hearing. Perhaps Mr Harvie just really enjoys a good trial, since he also showed up for Craig Murray’s.

But if you’re not scared of the direction Scotland’s heading in under the rule of Nicola Sturgeon, readers, we’d suggest that you’re really not paying attention.

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    875 to “The Little Country That Lost Its Mind”

    1. Breeks says:

      Dan says:
      11 August, 2022 at 2:05 pm

      Retrofitting old and often listed and conservation properties is a massively expensive and complex undertaking to do it properly.
      But even if buildings don’t have the best insulation, if they are heated with renewable energy rather than oil or gas then that is still an improvement to reduce carbon emissions.

      I agree with you Dan, but it’s an uphill struggle to persuade folks.

      I have another theory about Geothermal however, which again, freaks out environmentalists. “IF” you’re off grid, and heating your home with a geothermal heat pump, because it’s zero emissions and 100% green, why not install an oversized system into a derelict stone building, thus avoiding the need to go bananas trying to retrofit insulation into a 19th century building which was designed to be ventilated?

      Yes, you are losing heat energy through the building fabric, but it’s clean, sustainable energy with zero emissions, so what is the actual down side? Bloating the stone property with modern insulation creates all manner of problems such as interstitial condensation in parts of the building which rely on ventilation.

      Remove the burden of insulation, embrace a “wasteful and inefficient” geothermal system to operate the buildings as they were designed to be used, “MANAGE” the heat loss, and suddenly renovating 19th Century Stone buildings becomes eminently sensible. (+ For gods sake knock the VAT off the work too…)

      All these derelict and ruinous stone cottages and buildings could be perfectly sound modern dwellings which take heat loss on the chin but remain perfectly viable because the heat that’s lost is drawn cleanly from the ground, not a power station.

      Scotland is losing hundreds of these fine, robust, and vernacular properties because the current Building Regs might as well be a death sentence, and there are other ways to make these marvellous properties viable.

      FFS Scotland, STOP pulling down your iconic stone built mills and factories because some greedy developer and an equally narrow minded Building Inspector collude to say they cannot be modernised.

      We are losing HUNDREDS of these buildings, HUNDREDS, and what replaces them is garbage in comparison.

      Hands up all the people who grew up in either a stone built cottage, house or tenement block, and how many of us died of hypothermia? It’s only smog and the cost of fuel which changed the way these buildings had to be operated, but geothermal heating COULD give these properties a whole new lease of life.

      Yes, I know, the Building Regs say otherwise, but DO NOT PULL THEM DOWN. The Building Regs are badly lacking adequate sophistication and some truly iconic buildings are being lost, and future generations will we swearing at us they way we swore at Town Planners in the 60’s and 70’s who bulldozed beautiful buildings and architectural features to make way for shitty shopping centres and the occasional Tay Road Bridges which aren’t worth a damn beside the resource sacrificed to create them.

      Just last week I read about a Dundee Jute Mill already demolished with the stone “salvaged” to make sign posts around the campus. Pity they couldn’t have salvaged the building as it stood. Salvaging a few lumps of stone is a mockery of the work which went into creating a fine, fine building which functioned perfectly for centuries.

      (No disrespect meant to Dundee Uni, it’s actually a nice notion, but the objectionable bit is the demolition in the first place. – Which WASN’T Dundee Uni).

    2. Scott says:

      “The words weren’t mine originally, they were paraphrasing Derek Bateman’s intro to the Wee Blue Book if I recall correctly.” – Ellis

      You don’t recall correctly.

      Here’s the complete paragraph your comment came from, for full context.

      “You may put yourself forward as being persuadable, but in the end you come across as just another yoon who in his heart of heart believes the “too wee, too poor, too stupid” trope, but lacks the intellectual honesty to say it out loud. To paraphrase Derek Bateman in his preface to the wee blue book I believe, such people are not Scottish in any meaningful sense, they are British because they prioritise that nationalism over Scottish nationalism. The trouble for them is that as we’ve seen in recent years, the vast majority of British nationalists regard themselves as English first, or simply assume that English and British are one and the same. To them, and to most Scots unionists if they’re being honest, Scotland is just North Britain: a glorified county like Yorkshire with a more colourful history.”

      And here’s Derek Bateman in the Wee Black Book referring only to Scottish unionists.

      It is only here in Scotland that we pirouette on the
      head of a pin over patriotism and nationalism. Who
      else have you ever met who boasted:

      “I love my country but don’t want it to govern
      itself. I much prefer it to be in a minority in another
      parliament where it can always be outvoted and
      where parties we don’t support will dictate our
      budget and policies. I don’t think my country should
      have independence because it really wouldn’t be able
      to do the job properly.”

      Most foreign listeners would reply: Then it’s not
      your country at all. You can’t care enough about it
      to call it your nation. You may call yourself Scottish
      but you are in fact British. Britain is your country.
      – Derek Bateman, former BBC journalist

      As alert readers will see, it was you that said those from E/W/NI aren’t Scottish in any meaningful way too – claiming retrospectively that wasn’t what you meant cuts no ice here.

      And you can “regard pro independence New Scots as being more Scottish than native born Scots unionists” all you want, but it isn’t remotely true in fact.

      Is your daughter Irish and not Scottish, now that she lives & works in Ireland? Of course not, so fuck off with your gaslighting.

    3. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 August, 2022 at 4:07 pm

      You’re the type promoting policies that embarrass the rest of the movement, like the weirdos shouting at cars on the border or trying to hijack other peoples marches with inappropriate banners aimed at upping the profile of their Popular Front of Jockistan splinter groups.

      You forgot to mention shouting in lobbies of big businesses accompanied by members of the local jumped up church gazette, school radio and student TV utterpaparazzi, while looking like the “befores” in a biological washing powder advert, and thinking it’s going to solve anything except the primeval urges momentarily from their mid-life crises like junkies for skag.

    4. James che says:

      The mill house Lived in was from around 1800s and it was damp, but what do you expect, it was made to have water next to it, and under it,

      Moved to 1700s old inn to be closer to the School I was expelled from, three stories high with basements for wine and washing boiler below on one side and open the side for carriages and horse to stay,
      Old butler style sinks, my mum used to do the washing in the boiler and use a mangle to remove most of the water, then hang them on lines inside the boiler room in the winter as the boiler heated the basement.
      Both were and are still lovely building, although the mill now has a gigantic modern house in its grounds that is totally out of context in its surroundings.
      Sinful planning departments with no care for Scottish history.

      Wouldn’t live there now as no locals left and the place is no longer sharp or pristine clean, rubbish every where even in the lay byes and harbours, in trees and bushes,

    5. Stoker says:

      FFS! Not even in campaign mode and WOS seems to be under attack more than usual recently. Nothing but problems getting on here over the past week or so. Probably Skanky Sturgeon’s Black Pampers Brigade. LOL! 🙂

    6. Republicofscotland says:

      The pretendy indy party SNP councillors lose control of North Larnakshire council to the Red Tories (BLiS)

      Pity it didn’t fall to the Alba party the only independence party in Scotland.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20623186.labour-take-control-north-lanarkshire-council-snp-thanks-bup-vote%2F

    7. Christopher Pike says:

      Alf Baird says:
      11 August, 2022 at 1:16 pm
      Hatuey @ 12:31 am

      “The SNP are on the wrong side of everything.”

      Everything except perhaps Westminster’s ‘agenda’, with little or no divergence in policy between Edinburgh and London these past 8 years or so. One should expect nothing less from a loyal colonial administration.

      ——

      You really don’t give up, do you? Has Mrs Baird been hiding your medication lately, or have you always been this imbecilic?

    8. Scott says:

      Labour now control of North Lanarkshire Council.

      SNP proposed Tracy Carragher to lead the Council, but this was defeated by Labour’s amendment, by one vote.

      Michael Coyle, only elected in May 2022, voted in favour of Labour’s amendment that Jim Logue should be leader, as did the Tories and British Unionist Party.

      In an independent Scotland, party politics can get to fuck.

      Jury style legislatures are the way forward.

    9. Republicofscotland says:

      Everything the SNP touches under Sturgeon’s tenure turns to shit, recently islanders struggled to get a pint of milk and a loaf of bread as an aged ferry servicing the isles broke down.

      Transport minister Jenny Gilruth should be sacked on the spot in my opinion, five years late and millions of pounds over budget with painted on windows, the two ferries at Port Glasgow if ordered by a competent government (Not Sturgeon’s SNP) could’ve saw this unnecessary fiasco avoided.

      The islanders must be pulling their hair out in frustration, Sturgeon couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20622383.calmac-faces-blame-food-shortages-island-amid-ferry-row%2F

    10. Scott says:

      “You really don’t give up, do you? Has Mrs Baird been hiding your medication lately, or have you always been this imbecilic?” – Pike

      *sniff sniff* Yep, I can smell Ellis. Wonder if they know each other.

      Anyhoo, fun facts.

      Since 1855, there’s only been two boys born in Scotland given the name Christopher Pike – the elder of the two is deid.

      Star Trek must only be watched by dullards that don’t get their hole.

    11. Tinto Chiel says:

      @RoS: damn! Clicked on that and saw her best Wee Angry look. She fair biles yer kale, non?

    12. Scott says:

      Anyone else getting a blank .htm download after opening WoS (on Firefox)?

    13. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      11 August, 2022 at 5:09 pm

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 August, 2022 at 4:07 pm

      You’re the type promoting policies that embarrass the rest of the movement, like the weirdos shouting at cars on the border or trying to hijack other peoples marches with inappropriate banners aimed at upping the profile of their Popular Front of Jockistan splinter groups.

      You forgot to mention shouting in lobbies of big businesses accompanied by members of the local jumped up church gazette, school radio and student TV utterpaparazzi, while looking like the “befores” in a biological washing powder advert, and thinking it’s going to solve anything except the primeval urges momentarily from their mid-life crises like junkies for skag.

      Just out of interest does ‘your movement’ have a code of conduct or are you reliant on the SNP code of conduct.
      How do you go about enforcing this code of conduct.
      Would you just come onto ‘Wings’ or ‘Twitter’ and call these guys out especially if they didn’t have on freshly washed
      pure brilliant white shirts & had their nails freshly manicured?

      What’s your problem with the church gazette, school radio & student TV? Would protests only be acceptable in your view if the BBC The Times & Nicola Sturgeon were present?

    14. Republicofscotland says:

      More finger pointing from the betrayer, don’t blame me if people die this Winter its not my fault, okay I sold out Scots on independence, where I could’ve done something to mitigate the coming disaster, but instead, me being a treacherous sociopath put myself and my party ahead of the welfare of the people who elected me, and to disguise my treachery I’m finger pointing at Westminster government because I can blame them, and the indy mugs that would still vote for me thinking I want independence, when I don’t, will believe me.

      “NICOLA Sturgeon has agreed to an urgent package of measures to tackle the cost-of-living crisis, while saying that lives will be lost if the UK Government does not act.

      The First Minister made the announcement on Twitter on Thursday after she chaired a meeting of the Scottish Government’s Resilience Committee, which has agreed to now meet weekly to track the measures’ progress.

      As part of her announcement, the First Minister stressed that the tools needed to deal with crisis were reserved to the UK Government and called on Westminster to do more to help households.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20624353.nicola-sturgeon-reveals-cost-of-living-package-saying-inaction-will-cost-lives%2F

    15. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      11 August, 2022 at 7:28 pm

      Anyone else getting a blank .htm download after opening WoS (on Firefox)?

      No I haven’t had that. I’m using Firefox on a Mac.
      That sounds a bit dodgy.

      Something going wrong with Wings.
      Do you remember when Stu said he was going to modify things on Wings due to his semi-retirement/reduced traffic.
      I’ll have to look back to find out exactly what he said. It might have been something about reducing bandwidth ‘due to less demand or something.
      Wings might be busier than he anticipated hence so many glitches.

    16. Ottomanboi says:

      WARNING
      BigB is tracking YOU.
      https://archive.ph/IT2iw

      Simply LURV your London.
      https://archive.ph/Hd9F1
      Sooo accommodating!

    17. PacMan says:

      Scott says: 11 August, 2022 at 7:28 pm

      Anyone else getting a blank .htm download after opening WoS (on Firefox)?

      I’m running Firefox on Linux and get it from time to time. I’ve just checked my downloads folder and files called N0bFTAvs.html and
      w2DcqSQK.html

      Strange, only thing I can think if that there are code behind the scenes that hasn’t been done properly and these files are being accidentally downloaded.

    18. Ruby says:

      Found it:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/less-is-more/
      Stu writes:

      Wings’ webhosting has expired and is due for renewal, but we we’re not seeking funds to pay for it – the costs will be met from the remainder of the Wings Fighting Fund. We’re aiming to downgrade the hosting to save a significant amount of money, but readers shouldn’t notice any difference – despite still being the most popular Scottish politics site, traffic is around 80% lower than it was prior to last May, so like a six-lane motorway at 3am there’s plenty wiggle room to close lanes without affecting speed.

      Maybe this current article caused an extraordinary about of traffic & the reduced number of lanes couldn’t handle it.

      The interesting question is why would this particular article cause so much interest?

    19. Republicofscotland says:

      As the betrayer of Scots hunkers down in Bute House with only her index finger visible pointing at Ten Downing street hoping that the Tories will take the heat for her treachery.

      Johnson who didn’t give a toss when he was the active PM has given even less of a toss when he met with energy firm bigwigs to discuss the oncoming energy tragedy that will hit this Winter

      Johnson said it was for the next PM to sort out, who is in my opinion is the Margaret Thatcher wannabe, not the Sturgeon one, but Liz Truss who has already made it crystal clear that they’ll be no handout, only tax cuts, which will be of no use to pensioner and the unemployed.

      “THE high level crisis meeting between Boris Johnson and Britain’s energy firms has ended with no new measures in place.

      Despite Chancellor Nahdim Zahawi warning the companies that the government “continues to evaluate the extraordinary profits seen in certain parts of the electricity generation sector,” the outgoing Conservative leader made clear that it would be “for the next Prime Minister to make significant fiscal decisions.”

      Earlier today, a new analysis from energy consultant Auxilione warned that bills could hit £5,000 a year by next April.”

    20. John Main says:

      @Republicofscotland says:11 August, 2022 at 3:31 pm

      “A FM of Scotland needs all the powers and levers of government to run a country, we cannot do it with one hand tied behind our backs, whilst another country continues to steal our assets and makes laws for us.

      Scotland is a wealthy country and but we need to keep the wealth in Scotland, independence will allow us to plan for this, as part of this union Scotland is much poorer and constrained”

      Do you have any idea how puerile and pathetic that response is, Republic?

      I asked what carrot we can dangle in front of No voters and the undecided to persuade them to vote Yes. And your response? Have faith and once we are Independent, we can plan.

      FFS Republic. The SNP has been in power since 2007, 15 long years, and nobody can answer the bleeding obvious questions everybody will be asking:

      Will a Scottish government reduce fuel duty?

      Will a Scottish government abolish VAT on domestic electricity, gas and heating oil?

      Will a Scottish government set a low price cap on electricity/gas bills?

      Does Alba have policies on this? Surely they too can’t be claiming it was all BoJo’s fault, but currently it’s nobody’s fault, but in a wee while it will be Truss’s fault.

      “We will also hopefully get rid of English/US nukes which we not only host but pay through the nose for”

      Well whoopy fucking do. We may be freezing our tits off but we will have sent the nukes hamewards tae think again.

      Stand clear while the stampede of new enthused Yes voters tramples through the polling stations off the back of that promise.

    21. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott” 4.45 pm

      Still doing that thing you do, being a creepy as fuck obsessive stalker I see? What’s my daughter got to do with it? Why would anyone in the least balanced think it was appropriate to bring her up as some rhetorical cudgel?

      What sort of weirdo goes poking about online to check out the background and families of others online just because they regularly hand you your arse online?

      Creepy as fuck stalkers, that’s who. You’re a mental case mate.

      It’s the kind of thing the yoon media did during #indyref1 and were (rightly) criticised for. Same MO, same regressive, xenophobic worldview. No wonder you guard your anonymity: nobody in the movement with a moral compass would want to be associated with a nut job like you.

    22. Republicofscotland says:

      Main @8.40pm.

      I was being courteous with my previous comment to you knowing fine well you are not a supporter of Scottish independence, so I value your opinion, as much as I value a dogs turd stuck to the bottom of my shoe.

      But you have questions, for others (apart from one ort wo in here) I’d make an effort for you no chance.

    23. Dan says:

      @ John Main

      Maybe naebody is answering as they’re still waiting to see all those “Brexit” promises and bonuses being delivered…
      Can you not jist believe in Indy like you did wi yer “Brexit”?

    24. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:11 August, 2022 at 8:47 pm

      Still smarting over Brexit? There’s something about being able to send your college-age sons and daughters abroad for an easy and cheap gap year, whilst being able to employ Polish tradesmen for a fraction of the cost of a home-grown equivalent, and being able to get a carry out delivered essentially free by a smiling guy with a funny accent, that just can’t be beat.

      As it happens, I was in favour of Brexit even after I calculated it would cost me financially.

      But here’s the thing. I recognise and admit that is a deeply unpopular and minority view.

      Yet those advocates for Scots Indy, who freely admit they will vote Yes even if it impoverishes them for years, seem to believe that is a deeply popular and majority view.

      Sos, but naw.

      I try, over and over, to get the regulars on here to come up with some concrete, positive, improvements that ordinary Scots can expect to see after Indy, but all I hear is “have faith” and “look at the intangibles”.

      But you have a point of a sort, even if maybes you don’t see it. Every time somebody bangs on about what a disaster leaving the EU was/is, some Scot somewhere is thinking, “better not leave the UK then”.

    25. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 8:45pm
      Don’t worry about it mate. I have been thinking about the cyber attacks of late and who is responsible. MI5 prefer to watch and listen so it wouldn’t be them. They don’t want people to go underground with encrypted Whats App messages. We all know by now who the SNP friendly are on this blog. What they don’t realise is we can get the information out via the Unionist media. And we know how cruel they can be. Stuart Hosie white Y pants etc. BTW if Stu wanted to enhance security I would contribute to a fund raiser. Free speech is important especially when considering the next few months. We should be able to debate without fear. Anybody want to buy 2 tickets for the UEFA Cup final going cheap.

    26. John Main says:

      Sturgeon added: “We must all focus on supporting individuals, businesses and jobs by addressing the principal root causes of the problem.”

      Hmmm. Must be a North Sea gas bonanza pending as those untapped fields and wells are brought on stream. Or Sturgeon is going to stop the war and restore gas flows from Russia. Maybes re-start the German nuclear reactors. Fast-track half a dozen nuclear power stations here. Fracking? Peat extraction? Coal mining?

      Exciting times.

    27. Derek says:

      Being a part of Europe doesn’t necessarily mean being a member of the EU, though.There’s various degrees of involvement – which GB has rejected – that may also be open to an independent Scotland.

    28. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 August, 2022 at 8:45 pm

      What’s my daughter got to do with it? Why would anyone in the least balanced think it was appropriate to bring her up as some rhetorical cudgel?

      It’s a direct comparison: If New Scots are Scots, which they aren’t, she must be Irish, which she isn’t.

      You couldn’t hand anyone their arse on a plate, no matter how many attempts you make, Ellis. And, your insults are meaningless, they only induce laughter.

      You never got the title of Professor, which is why you have such a hard-on for Alf Baird.

      You don’t seem to like women very much either, going by your comments here and the grudging thanks you gave to the woman who typed your thesis.

      You’ve been banned by Iain Lawson, and cry about how unfair it is.

      You’ve had posts placed in moderation, and cried about that too, even going so far as to ask the Rev (via GETTR) to just close this site down because of it.

      You are too intellectually weak to understand any of the subjects you claim to be an expert in, but here you are, despite having a blog of your own, constantly trying to enact the dreams you once had, dreams of ‘influence’ that came to fuck all.

      Poor you – the always misunderstood, never wrong.

    29. Dan says:

      @ John Main at 9.03pm

      That’s the thing though, you made your decision for you. Others may have made their decisions because they realised that a vote to leave the EU, especially when undefined, could impact them and the society in which they exist in a negative way.
      Just because you could absorb the losses doesn’t mean other individuals and more importantly businesses could.
      So you continue to push for answers to your questions before you will even think about supporting Scotland returning to self-governing status, yet you chose an undefined “Brexit” with the myriad uncertainties and variables that included.

    30. Scott says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      11 August, 2022 at 8:25 pm

      WARNING
      BigB is tracking YOU.
      https://archive.ph/IT2iw

      Thanks for that. I’ve just installed ‘Fakeboak Container’ via Firefox add-ons.

    31. robertkknight says:

      O/T…

      Anyone else getting “bad gateway” when they try to access the site? Fairly regular issue these days.

    32. George Ferguson says:

      @Dan 9:27pm
      Come on Dan a myriad of uncertainties and variables, you have made the case for the Union. The questions I got on the streets of 2014 are still unanswered. Currency, The lender of last resort, Immigration, Head of State, membership of the EU, the white paper pointed a big arrow at the Brexit vote. We still lost. An improvement of the Scot Gov performance would be a start.

    33. Alf Baird says:

      Scott @ 9:27 pm

      Yes, the colonizers perspective of the native seems ever more evident here in that, according to Professor Edward W. Said: “…it is assumed they were unable to read and respond directly to what had been written about them…and (the colonizer) presumed the natives’ incapacity to intervene in scientific discourse.”

    34. Republicofscotland says:

      This is comedy gold, as troughing SNP MP Tommy Sheppard bemoans that Labour has lost its principles, it would appear that irony isn’t lost on Sheppard or his spineless and gutless SNP MP mates who wouldn’t know what a principle was if it jumped up and bit them on the arse.

      Sheppard added that the party (Red Tories aka Labour) is headed in a worrying direction.

      “Sheppard also expressed confusion over the way in which Sarwar is refusing to entertain the idea of Scottish independence or working with the SNP.”

      More worryingly than the BLiS managers denial of an indyref in Scotland, is that of the SNP under the leadership of Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots refusing to entertain the idea of Scottish independence.

      As for heading in a wrong direction the SNP under the betrayers tenure has strayed so far off the beaten track that its unlikely to find its way back again.

      We’ve got the Blue Tories and the Red Tories, now with Sturgeon at the helm of the SNP we have the Yellow Tories as well, all that’s left is the Alba party we need to get behind them and support them.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20612566.keir-starmer-worst-labour-leader-according-tommy-sheppard%2F

    35. George Ferguson says:

      @Republicofscotland 20:13pm
      Agreed. I don’t recognise the SNP as a party of Independence which is why I left them and have never voted for them since. The first time I was a member of the SNP we were called Tartan Tories. Just to add to the kaleidoscope of colours.

    36. Mark Boyle says:

      robertkknight says:
      11 August, 2022 at 9:50 pm

      O/T…

      Anyone else getting “bad gateway” when they try to access the site? Fairly regular issue these days.

      It’s happening frequently and contrary to the conspiracy theorists looks like a simple matter of the hosts not clearing the site cache regularly – which is what happens when internet site hosts think the owner’s aren’t paying that much attention to their site any more and so start taking the piss with routine maintenance.

      If it really was an attempt to gag WoS, why is this the longest period Stu’s been able to stay on Twitter without being banned?

    37. George Ferguson says:

      @Mark Boyle 10:25?pn
      Elon Musk? The power of Capitalism

    38. Dan says:

      @ George Ferguson at 10.03pm

      You can hijack what I said and twist it as making a case for the Union if you want. But you know the actual context of what I wrote was that John Main voted for an undefined “Brexit” yet he wants all the answers for an Indy Scotland prior to making his decision.

      Many of the answers to those questions he has about a self-governing Scotland will be for the Scottish people to decide after Indy though, and hopefully through a lens of half decent media coverage and scrutiny of detail which properly addresses each matter rather than the pack of horseshit and pish we endure with the current MSM setup.

    39. Christopher Pike says:

      Scott says:
      11 August, 2022 at 9:27 pm
      Andy Ellis says:
      11 August, 2022 at 8:45 pm

      What’s my daughter got to do with it? Why would anyone in the least balanced think it was appropriate to bring her up as some rhetorical cudgel?

      It’s a direct comparison: If New Scots are Scots, which they aren’t, she must be Irish, which she isn’t.

      You couldn’t hand anyone their arse on a plate, no matter how many attempts you make, Ellis. And, your insults are meaningless, they only induce laughter.

      You never got the title of Professor, which is why you have such a hard-on for Alf Baird.

      You don’t seem to like women very much either, going by your comments here and the grudging thanks you gave to the woman who typed your thesis.

      You’ve been banned by Iain Lawson, and cry about how unfair it is.

      You’ve had posts placed in moderation, and cried about that too, even going so far as to ask the Rev (via GETTR) to just close this site down because of it.

      You are too intellectually weak to understand any of the subjects you claim to be an expert in, but here you are, despite having a blog of your own, constantly trying to enact the dreams you once had, dreams of ‘influence’ that came to fuck all.

      Poor you – the always misunderstood, never wrong.

      —–

      Indeed, Mr Baird is a professor, which means he of all people should know that Scotland is not a colony. He is a highly eccentric and intelligent individual with bizarre theories (Scotland is colony) that would never be accepted as mainstream intellectual discourse – he should know better. That’s why he’s relegated to appearing on amateurish crap like ‘Through A Scottish Prism’ rather than more trustworthy and mainstream media outlets.

      If he’s so opposed to the English language, then he should publish all of his research in that stupid Broons/Oor Wullie gibberish.

    40. George Ferguson says:

      @Dan 10:36pm
      It wasn’t my intention to hijack anything you said. Over one million people in Scotland voted for Brexit and a third of SNP members voted for it as well. The SNP are using it as a trope. I myself are neutral on the debate. But I would expect an IScotland to debate and have a referendum on this issue. After spending over 300 years to be become free,we are willing to join a Union with Ursulsa Von de whatever an unelected politician which you can’t get to. As bad as Nicola. A nightmare.

    41. Scott says:

      Using his own logic, if George Ferguson couldn’t answer the questions in 2014, he made the case for the union.

    42. Scott says:

      “rather than more trustworthy and mainstream media outlets.” – Pike

      You actually wrote that on a site that debunked lies in the media for a living?

      You sound like Ellis, and there’s also the attack, again, on Alf Baird.

      It’s noticeable that you chose that part of my response to Andy Endless* to focus on, rather than the substantive point.

      *h/t David, ‘Off-topic’ – https://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-81/#comment-2700704

    43. Robert Hughes says:

      ” That’s why he’s relegated to appearing on amateurish crap like ‘Through A Scottish Prism’ rather than more trustworthy and mainstream media outlets.

      If he’s so opposed to the English language, then he should publish all of his research in that stupid Broons/Oor Wullie gibberish.”

      Hahahaha . Aye , I bet Alf is just inundated with invitations to appear on intellectually superior * shows * like BBC Question Time , BBC Cat-Stuck-Up-A-Tree Jockland Evening News , *S*TV Debate ( LOL ) Night etc .

      These ” more trustworthy and mainstream media outlets ” exist solely in your constipated imagination . Try Colonial Irrigation . It might help unblock all that shite that’s causing you such discomfort around anything authentically Scottish .

      And there we have it troops , straight from the donkey’s arse ….the language of Fergusson , Burns , McDairmid amongst countless others – ” stupid Broons/Oor Wullie gibberish ” .

      With that last you reveal yourself as total bam . Look it up in the OED . It has many meanings , one is a synonym for * prick *

    44. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:11 August, 2022 at 10:36 pm

      “You can hijack what I said and twist it as making a case for the Union if you want. But you know the actual context of what I wrote was that John Main voted for an undefined “Brexit” yet he wants all the answers for an Indy Scotland prior to making his decision.

      Many of the answers to those questions he has about a self-governing Scotland will be for the Scottish people to decide after Indy”

      Dan

      That is the second post from last night where you misrepresented or misunderstood my point.

      For every poster on here, how many readers do you think there are?

      100? 10000? Maybes, as Ruby would claim, a billion.

      They can’t all be Yes voters. So it’s not me you have to convince. It’s the majority of Scots voters who, by your own admission, didn’t vote for the uncertainty of Brexit, and won’t vote for the uncertainty of Indy.

      Telling them to “have faith” and “wait until later” just won’t cut it.

      And, in the final analysis, it’s not fucking rocket science, is it? Figures for GDP, population, government spending, industrial capacity, yadda, yadda, must all have been known and understood for decades now. Any half-competent team of bureaucrats or academics could model the Scottish economy in software, and, by playing about with the inputs and assumptions, put together convincing figures for our circumstances post-Indy.

      So, for about the trillionth time, show us the fucking money.

    45. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      11 August, 2022 at 10:25 pm

      It’s happening frequently and contrary to the conspiracy theorists looks like a simple matter of the hosts not clearing the site cache regularly – which is what happens when internet site hosts think the owner’s aren’t paying that much attention to their site any more and so start taking the piss with routine maintenance.


      Highly suspect information.

      I’ve never heard of
      1. Websites having a cache that needs to be cleared. What is in the cache?
      2. Webhosts doing maintenance on websites.

    46. Alf Baird says:

      Christopher Pike @ 10:56 pm

      “that stupid Broons/Oor Wullie gibberish”

      How revealing is such a racist attitude towards the language and culture of an ethnic minority people within the British state of today, albeit one comprising a whole nation in itself.

      Colonialism, as we know, involves oppression of an indigenous (i.e. ethnic) native population and this includes and indeed depends on debasing their culture and language (Fanon; Memmi).

      As Albert Memmi put it:

      “Racism appears…not as an incidental detail, but as a consubstantial part of colonialism. It is the highest expression of the colonial system and one of the most significant features of the colonialist.”

    47. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott”

      It’s a direct comparison: If New Scots are Scots, which they aren’t, she must be Irish, which she isn’t.

      It’s not a direct comparison at all, except to someone who is being deliberately obtuse, or just isn’t following the argument. People who move to Scotland with the intent of stating here are Scots: that what the vast majority of movement, being progressive civic nationalists believe. A minority of regressive, blood and soil nationalists believe nobody who isn’t born here is a Scot.

      Reasonable people don’t attempt open windows in to people’s souls to check whether they are Scottish enough to be accepted into the “demos”.

      Someone living in a country because it’s where they are working is not the same thing as people moving to Scotland from other parts of the UK or the rest of the world with the intention of staying. We don’t police them at the border and tell them they aren’t welcome unless they support Scottish independence, any more than we argue that Scottish unionists should leave after independence is achieved. Going to work in another country temporarily is not the same thing as moving permanently.

      You purport to have represented your country as a footballer. Did you complain about anyone who wasn’t born here being selected for the team? Or were you one of the ones all the other players tried to avoid, and management tried to humour due to your “out there” views, because they knew your were an obsessive weirdo even then?

      You never got the title of Professor, which is why you have such a hard-on for Alf Baird.

      I never “sought” the title of Professor, because I was never interested in becoming an academic. you appear not to understand how Professorships work. Par for the course as we’ve seen from much of your output of course.

      Alf Baird’s positions, particularly his obsession with falsely equating the Scottish experience with colonial oppression and the Scots language, are open to criticism. As other’s have pointed out, he’s hardly representing mainstream or popular views, nor does he he have much traction in the movement. Far from having a hard-on for him, I think he’s a fringe commentator with little in the way of impact.

      You don’t seem to like women very much either, going by your comments here and the grudging thanks you gave to the woman who typed your thesis.

      More othering assertions dressed up as facts. If I’ve criticised posters on here who are female (which would be hard if not impossible to know given most of the nativists are understandably keen to guard their anonymity lest they be publicly scorned for their regressive views) it has nothing to do with their sex.

      You’ve brought up the – frankly rather odd – claim that I was grudging in thanks to the woman who typed my thesis over 30 years ago before. It isn’t true in the least of course, and appears to be based on failures in your reading comprehension. The lady concerned was a friend and work colleague: my then employer allowed her to type up my thesis on work time and equipment. I also gave her a decent fee for her efforts.

      How any of this amounts to evidence of me not liking women much will be beyond the ken of reasonable folks….but we know you’re not “reasonable folks” don’t we “Scott”? You’re just some anonymous ned on the internet with too much time on their hands, and fairly obvious personality issues.

      You’ve been banned by Iain Lawson, and cry about how unfair it is.

      Lawson has form for not allowing criticism BTL on his blog, however moderately expressed. He did it to both Rev Stu and myself. Like most nativists, he’s only really interested in engaging with other fringe nutters in their Brigadoon People’s Front echo chamber. I’m not crying about it at all: I think it’s pretty pathetic and indicative of how weak their case actually is. People get very prickly when it’s pointed out their pet theories have negligible support.

      You’ve had posts placed in moderation, and cried about that too, even going so far as to ask the Rev (via GETTR) to just close this site down because of it.

      That was due to the sudden and unexplained addition of certain words to the pre-modding list. I did indeed take to GETTR, and emailed Stu on here about it. I was hardly alone expressing a view it was the wrong thing to do, but it’s Stu’s site and he can do what he wants. If I recall others, including some of the moonhowlers also complained. A few even announced they were going to stop posting, but soon appeared back…odd that, eh?

    48. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Alf Baird –

      Perhaps what Christopher Pike fails to realise (or knows full well but feigns otherwise) is that what ‘we’ as Scots think doesn’t really matter anyway. We can be as genial or hateful as we all feel individually (and that can vary from day to day depending on circumstances) but it makes no difference.

      What matters is how ‘they’ see us – because they’re in charge – and there’s no doubt that the English Establishment both hates and fears us.

    49. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      For every poster on here, how many readers do you think there are?

      100? 10000? Maybes, as Ruby would claim, a billion.

      Another weird question from ‘Their John’.

      Lets say he means over the last month. All you would need to do is count up the number of unique posters (not that many) and divide it by the number of unique visitors to Wings (info provided by Stu) and you would get a rough figure.

      Whether or not all these visitors are reading the posts and not just the article would have to be guess work. My guess is they are not. My guess would be the number of people reading the posts is equal to the number of posters. That would only be a rough guess because it is highly possible that a lot of posters do not read all the posts.

    50. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.

      I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.

      I’m very restricted in what I can say because of the above message.

    51. Ruby says:

      If you thought someone was the scum of the earth & the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe would you spend time trying to explain yourself to that person?

      Would you care what that person thought?

    52. Andy Ellis says:

      Robin McAlpine’s most recent blog post “Elite misrules opens the door to independence, but…” on 10th august 2022 ended with the following “call to arms”:

      The indy movement must absolutely break from its recent dalliance with being a ’cause of the establishment’ and recognise that it is what it always was – a clear and present danger to the status quo. It is the only dynamic that will propel us forward in a crisis (which will absolutely not be over by the spring).

      This does not mean smashing windows or clenching fists. It is about creating a new alliance, one that includes domestic business, public sector workers, financially-stressed middle class households, those on fixed incomes (pensioners), the poor and the young. Every one of those groups benefits from a change in the status quo. Only bankers, the corporate sector and the very rich stand outside this coalition.

      I was wondering how others thought of that “new alliance” concept? I know a few folk, including some in here, are convinced things may happen and change to the current political impasse could come quickly due to the looming financial crisis etc.

      I’d love to think that a new alliance of the groups Robin identifies will be forged, but wondered what others thought this might look like, who is going to lead it, and what the timescales will be?

      Given the hostility between parts of the pro-independence movement, the apparent unwillingness of SNP membership to bring about any meaningful change at the top of their party, what’s the realistic way forward?

    53. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      6 July, 2022 at 12:48 pm

      Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.

      I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.

      I’m very restricted in what I can say because of the above message.

    54. Ruby says:

      Ruby says:
      11 August, 2022 at 8:02 pm

      Mark Boyle says:
      11 August, 2022 at 5:09 pm

      Andy Ellis says:
      11 August, 2022 at 4:07 pm

      You’re the type promoting policies that embarrass the rest of the movement, like the weirdos shouting at cars on the border or trying to hijack other peoples marches with inappropriate banners aimed at upping the profile of their Popular Front of Jockistan splinter groups.

      You forgot to mention shouting in lobbies of big businesses accompanied by members of the local jumped up church gazette, school radio and student TV utterpaparazzi, while looking like the “befores” in a biological washing powder advert, and thinking it’s going to solve anything except the primeval urges momentarily from their mid-life crises like junkies for skag.

      Just out of interest does ‘your movement’ have a code of conduct or are you reliant on the SNP code of conduct.
      How do you go about enforcing this code of conduct.
      Would you just come onto ‘Wings’ or ‘Twitter’ and call these guys out especially if they didn’t have on freshly washed
      pure brilliant white shirts & had their nails freshly manicured?

      What’s your problem with the church gazette, school radio & student TV? Would protests only be acceptable in your view if the BBC The Times & Nicola Sturgeon were present?

      Bumping this up in the hope of getting a reply from Mark Boyle.

    55. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      12 August, 2022 at 9:10 am

      Alf Baird’s positions, particularly his obsession with falsely equating the Scottish experience with colonial oppression and the Scots language, are open to criticism. As other’s have pointed out, he’s hardly representing mainstream or popular views, nor does he he have much traction in the movement.

      As your esteemed daughter will perhaps confirm, it isn’t a mainstream or popular view – yet – but it is a fashionable one among the chattering classes – especially those who don’t let pesky facts get in the way of some emotive bollocks (hello Anahit Behrooz and Sir Geoff Palmer!).

      As has been seen with trans woo-woo and the political correctness witch hunts on campuses, there’s an unfortunate tendency of university senates nervously eyeing funding sources buckling to outside pressures (in some cases outright physical intimidation) from Scott Trust connected vermin appealing to the ignorant mob who care for nothing but finding their next victim for a self-righteous lynching, and have no qualms at what dirty tricks they’ll do to get their way.

      Unless the “colonial” bullshit is stopped before it starts pretty damn quick, I fear the damage it may do to Scotland’s historical teaching and museums.

    56. Scott says:

      I’d love to think that a new alliance of the groups Robin identifies will be forged, but wondered what others thought this might look like, who is going to lead it, and what the timescales will be? – Ellis

      Did ye, aye?

      You’ve not understood the concept then.

    57. Dan says:

      @ John Main

      I’ve pretty consistently posted various links and discussion points to highlight Scotland’s abundance of diverse resources. Most recently on the tail end of this article with regard to gas playing its part in electrical energy generation.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/free-beer-tomorrow

      Up thread on this article I point out that if serious about reducing carbon emissions then it would make more sense with economies of scale for every house to be supplied with renewable power through the existing electricity grid infrastructure, rather than a hotch potch of private individuals buying in all sorts of imported small scale products that cause all manner of issues, such as listed building / planning permission / building control problems, or air source heat pump fan noise pissing off neighbours.
      I’ll throw in sensible proactive maintenance of the electricity grid would be to cut down all the fucking trees next to the power lines so corridors are formed so we don’t get power outs during storms and have to send crews out to try to repair damage in dangerous conditions during storms.
      These corridors would also be fire breaks seeing as this now seems to be more of a problem.
      There’s plenty space in Scotland to plant way more trees to replace the ones cut down next to power lines.

      I also tried to build a bit of discussion to raise awareness on our trains and track network. It mostly being single track with passing loops, and track only being electrified as far north as Dunblane meaning diesel engines are required. So rail travel in Scotland will continue to punt out carbon emissions until the track and rolling stock go leccy.

      The problem is few if any of our politicians seem to have a scooby about real world practicalities and the management of our resources and assets that could improve the lives of those that live here by building better infrastructure and revenues stream from said resources.

      #FerriesNotPronouns

      Anyway, have to go as off to repair a solar PV array…

    58. Ruby says:

      Mark Boyle says:

      Unless the “colonial” bullshit is stopped before it starts pretty damn quick, I fear the damage it may do to Scotland’s historical teaching and museums.

      Is that it? Is that the reason for all the anger about Scotland being a colony?

    59. Andy Ellis says:

      Did ye, aye?

      You’ve not understood the concept then.

      So what do alert readers think?

      Is “Scott” :

      a) someone who understands the concept but is too intellectually lazy and/or inarticulate to enlighten us; or

      b) just a grievance chimp and contrarian who would sooner throw his rhetorical shit around and other individuals he has a creepy as fuck obsession with?

    60. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      12 August, 2022 at 9:57 am

      If you thought someone was the scum of the earth & the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe would you spend time trying to explain yourself to that person?

      Would you care what that person thought?

      ‘The scum of the earth’ is a broad church and the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe is hardly likely to advertise the fact in those terms, but if it was me, I think I’d probably use evidenced facts and logic in response to any inaccuracies posted generally, and the same in response to any comments directed at me. I’m old school, though.

      And, I’d likely not actually care what they thought, basing my opinion on the words written, along with any publicly viewable information signposted by that person about themself, if indeed they’ve done so.

      And do it all with a smile.

      If you thought someone was the scum of the earth and the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe, how do you think they’d respond to my comment about how I’d explain why they’re wrong, while not caring what they thought, with a smile on my face?

    61. John Main says:

      @ Dan says:12 August, 2022 at 10:23 am

      Good post.

      “The problem is few if any of our politicians seem to have a scooby about real world practicalities and the management of our resources and assets that could improve the lives of those that live here”

      Agreed.

      So a big part of what I am saying is that in order to move the Yes/No flatline, serious people on the Yes side need to up their game. Probably, that means Alba.

      The remaining part of what I am saying is that No voters, new Scots, the dont-give-a-fuck brigade, are all susceptible to a convincing explanation and plausibly evidenced guarantee that Indy will make them personally better off.

      Ditch the ideological purity tests (that’s not aimed personally at you) and appeal to basic, universal, human greed.

    62. Ruby says:

      Scott says:

      ‘The scum of the earth’ is a broad church and the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe is hardly likely to advertise the fact in those terms, but if it was me, I think I’d probably use evidenced facts and logic in response to any inaccuracies posted generally, and the same in response to any comments directed at me. I’m old school, though.

      I was referring to what someone thought of a person not how that person advertised themselves. Do you think facts & logic would work on ‘the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe?’

      The answer to your last question is ‘freak the fuck out!’

    63. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      12 August, 2022 at 11:09 am

      @ Dan says:12 August, 2022 at 10:23 am

      Good post.

      “The problem is few if any of our politicians seem to have a scooby about real world practicalities and the management of our resources and assets that could improve the lives of those that live here”

      Agreed.

      So a big part of what I am saying is that in order to move the Yes/No flatline, serious people on the Yes side need to up their game. Probably, that means Alba.

      The remaining part of what I am saying is that No voters, new Scots, the dont-give-a-fuck brigade, are all susceptible to a convincing explanation and plausibly evidenced guarantee that Indy will make them personally better off.

      Ditch the ideological purity tests (that’s not aimed personally at you) and appeal to basic, universal, human greed.

      Before we go any further with complaints about continual swearing can we just establish if you do or do not have tourettes?

    64. Ruby says:

      John Main says:

      The remaining part of what I am saying is that No voters, new Scots, the dont-give-a-fuck brigade, are all susceptible to a convincing explanation and plausibly evidenced guarantee that Indy will make them personally better off.

      You are going to have to define what you mean by personally better off. Are you talking psychologically, emotionally, spiritually or financially?

    65. Merganser says:

      What happens next?

      For those who have fallen for Sturgeon’s con trick of a plebiscitary election being the way to independence it is worth reading Peter Bell’s article entitled ‘What happens next’.

      At least Alex Salmond seems to appreciate this is not the way forward, but for reasons I have previously stated he is restricted in the way he and Alba can act otherwise they get the blame if (when) it all goes wrong.

    66. Scott says:

      Unless the “colonial” bullshit is stopped before it starts pretty damn quick, I fear the damage it may do to Scotland’s historical teaching and museums. – Boyle

      All art is quite useless, according to Oscar Wilde, also believed to have said the following, his emphasis.

      ‘Medieval history’ encompasses 500 years of unwritten records, if it isn’t something based on faith and assertion, what is?

      eg The Viking Age is based on wishful thinking, that revolves around conquest and colonisation, raping and pillaging, with no thought given to peaceful assimilation, and hunners of shagging, because talk of such was banned in texts at the time.

      Even ‘experts’ acknowledge the limits of their knowledge imposed by the Dark Ages lack of solid fact.

      Recent history isn’t much better – Up Helly Aa follows no tradition, unless hairy-arsed vikings were still cuttin aboot towards the end of the reign of Queen Victoria.

      There’s a reason that history, like politics, theology, sociology and art aren’t taught by the Faculty of Science. BArt for BArt’s sake, money for old rope.

      Any damn fool can predict history.

      Any damn fool can repeat something that’s false but believable.

      Any damn fool can create a god.

      And damn fool can tolerate the intolerable.

      And damn fool can spill paint.

    67. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      12 August, 2022 at 11:09 am

      Do you think facts & logic would work on ‘the nuttiest nutter of fringe nutters on the nutty fringe?’

      Facts and logic always work, mathematics and form proves it.

      Assertion and logic don’t always, art will never disprove it.

    68. Scott says:

      Geoff Anderson says:
      12 August, 2022 at 8:07 am

      https://caltonjock.com/

      Things you like to be reminded of…

      “Check facts before opening mouth, Kezia!” – Jeff Dugdale on Twitter

    69. Hatuey says:

      Ellis, I’m afraid to tell you again that Scott is right and you don’t understand the argument McAlpine was making.

      It’s really very simple; he’s saying that the status quo is increasingly going to suit nobody but a select few at the top, that all the rest (including the middle classes) are going to find themselves on the same side as the recession hammers them.

      There are plenty of potential leadership candidates, Cherry, Salyers, you, etc.

    70. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      12 August, 2022 at 12:36 pm

      Ellis, I’m afraid to tell you again that Scott is right and you don’t understand the argument McAlpine was making.

      There are plenty of potential leadership candidates, Cherry, Salyers, you, etc.

      Harrumph

    71. James says:

      Only a fool would vote for brexit, an epic act of self-harm..
      It’s as plain as the nose on your face that Scotland will be much better off independent.
      John Main is best ignored; he’s like a broken (Tory Brexiteer) record.
      And as for convincing undecideds, how exactly is that done when 99.9 percent of the foreign-based ‘media’ is actively reporting anti-Scottish lies to keep independence facts from the general public?

    72. James says:

      Oh, and Arms Industry Andy Ellis should read Professor Alf Baird’s book ‘Doun Hauden’ and educate himself. Scotland passes the UN criteria for being described as a ‘political’ colony (i.e. resources/media/powers etc) being controlled by the country next door.

      Today’s crossword clue; “A country which has to ask the country next door for permission to hold a referendum to decide it’s own future.” Six letters. C_L_NY

    73. Dan says:

      Arse, jist when you try to find a positive that the current high energy prices will help payback that solar PV array system you fitted on your house sooner… Only to find a jist out of warranty 3 hunner quid control box shites its pants… 🙁

      You’d have hoped the engineer fucker that designed the box would have incorporated internal protection circuitry to stop terminal damage to the unit in the event of the few possible failure scenarios that could occur to the equipment it controls… sigh.
      And this is an example of why all these individual small scale eco fixes are a bit of a greenwashing farce.
      And a google search quickly provides evidence of many more folk suffering similar issues.

    74. Scott says:

      @ Dan

      If said failure is a design fault, rather than unexpected but possible and replacement is a matter of goodwill via ‘warranty’, and can be shown as such, write to the manufacturer and seek a replacement.

      Faulty goods are always faulty, and you are always entitled to exchange or refund.

    75. James che says:

      Britains wanting independence as a country from the EU.
      Is no different than Scotland wanting independence from Britian,

      Britian has used and thrown the country of Ireland ( Good friday agreement) and the country of Scotland the treaty ( trade deals and opposite election votes ignored ) under the bus,

      It wriggles uncomfortably on the promises it made in the past but cannot keep.

      As we watch Britian promised utopia of a weathy independent Brexit britian fail all four the countries of Britian as unit,
      We find it has very little to do with either the dream of being independent for Breaxit independence or Scottish independence as to actual successful out comes,

      It has more to do with leaders that have little intelligence with plenty of ability to make unwise decisions. Other than for them selfs and THEIR trouser pockets, this is how small their corralled thinking is.
      Leaders that are so detached in wealth and government protection they are selflessly ignorant of over three quarters of the country and population.

      Wether Britain or Scotland, the wealthy can afford outlandish ideology to occupy them as a hobby and as experimential jokes on the people, they personally are cushioned from through wealth,
      From its Trade deals on the other side of the world after brexit or beardy women or climate change. or closing down oil and gas plat forms prior to a proxy war, even in this the financial protection seldom places the elite at the for front of dying for their beliefs, the orders they give send the populations to the front lines to die FOR them.

      Bad management, the inability to lead, the stupidity of layered wealth within a governing body, will and does see all four countries of Britian’s old empire crumbling, the only thing left is the ghost of Colonialism for resource purposes.

      When this well of resources runs dry for us, the financially protected will just move to a different country,
      Their is no possible way that we could call Brexit Britain a success when we see the energy crises about to envelope most of the country this winter, when millions of people are out of work and placed on credit systems,
      When we have limited our selves to out sourcing everything from food to industries, from energy to banks, etc.
      This is a failing crumbling Britain,

      Do we go down with the sinking ship like a life boat tied to the titanic, or do we cut loose?

      we have to realise that the devolved governance of Scotland is the life boat tied to the titanic.

    76. Republicofscotland says:

      The millionaire knight of the realm and leader of the Red Tories (Labour) Sr Kier Starmer has broken his silence of the cost of living crisis, and come up with a cunning plan to save households a whopping £46 quid a year on energy bills.

      Oh well that’s, it we’re all saved everybody will be a snug as a bug in a rug this Winter knowing they are saving £46 quid. I doubt Starmer will sit cold this Winter wondering whether to heat or eat, the answer is will he f*ck.

      Meanwhile the betrayer (Sturgeon) hasn’t come up with a cunning plan on the cost of living crisis yet, as she hunkers down under the table at Bute house with her WWI skinlid on, and her index finger poking up and pointing South towards England and Westminster in the usual manner of its all their fault Scotland is in the state its in.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20626621.keir-starmer-breaks-silence-plan-save–46-off-energy-bills%2F

    77. Republicofscotland says:

      The SNP’s male version of Shirley Anne Somerville, Humza Yousaf, both are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, is disappointed that NHS staff in Scotland haven’t accepted his derisory offer of a 5% wage rise.

      Yousaf the Health secretary would probably be happy if our overworked and underpaid NHS staff accepted another round of applause instead of a wage rise.

      Thousands of NHS staff from four unions have voted for industrial action.

      Get it sorted Yousaf give our NHS staff a proper wage rise, do one thing right for a change.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20626821.nhs-staff-scotland-prepared-strike-5-per-cent-pay-offer%2F

    78. Republicofscotland says:

      The difference here is plain to see Taiwan’s president Tsai Ing-wen wants to see his country independent, Sturgeon the betrayer on the otherhand doesn’t want to see an independent Scotland.

      “NANCY Pelosi’s visit to Taiwan was like “external forces” colluding with Nicola Sturgeon to split Scotland from the UK, the Chinese government has said.

      The comments from a spokesman came after Foreign Secretary Liz Truss condemned China’s missile launches and incursions into Taiwanese waters and air space following the visit of the US Speaker.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20627545.china-compares-taiwan-scotland-attack-liz-truss%2F

    79. Republicofscotland says:

      So the betrayer told the tosser Neil MacKay that she might not lead the SNP into the next Holyrood election, if only it turns out to be true, however the betrayer being a sociopath might just be playing with the minds of her die-hard supporters, and with the betrayer having an fragile ego the size of a barn door she might also be playing on their emotions hoping that many of them plead with her to stay on, God forbid.

      Mackay adds.

      “Now, firstly, it’s refreshing that a politician is relatively honest about their plans for the future”

      I doubt the betraying sociopath would reveal her real plans to you.

      Mackay further adds this.

      Sturgeon did knock down the idea that she was planning to take “some grand international job”.

      The betrayer is a warhawk and pal of Hillary Clinton’s so they’ll be plenty of vacancies for her in the EU and in Nato or the States or the UN, when she’s found out here in Scotland for what she really is, she’ll be off like a shot.

      And this from Mackay.

      “Many hardline Yes voters moan endlessly about Sturgeon and want her gone, replaced by some populist who’ll storm the union’s barricades. Be careful what you wish for, though … because without Sturgeon, what becomes of the SNP and the Yes movement?”

      The answer to that is indy would begin to make progress if the right person replaced the betrayer.

      For anyone wanting to read the rest of this BS here it is.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20626857.neil-mackay-fm-quit-will-mean-yes-movement%2F

    80. Republicofscotland says:

      Are you poor, do you come from a deprived area and haven’t filled in the year late census that cost millions of more pounds than if it were launch when it should have been, then f*ck you we the Scottish government via our attack dog COPFS will be coming after you and we’ll fine your poor arse a £1000 quid.

      “ALBA Party have called on the Scottish Government to rule out prosecutions against Scotland’s most deprived households as a result of the “failed” National Census.

      Around 250,000 households have failed to respond to the Government’s Census based on the most recently available figures.

      However, new analysis by Alba Party shows that there is a direct link in poor response rates when compared to Scotland’s most deprived Local Authority areas.

      However, the Scottish Government in a response issued in a Freedom of information request have failed to rule out pursuing households to enforce the £1000 penalty for failing to return the census. Instead the Government say that this will be a decision for the Procurator Fiscals Office. ”

      https://www.albaparty.org/failed_census

    81. Stoker says:

      Ruby says:

      “My guess would be the number of people reading the posts is equal to the number of posters. That would only be a rough guess because it is highly possible that a lot of posters do not read all the posts.”

      You omitted an obvious and serious point for consideration dear Ruby – Sock puppets! This site is now crawling with them. Well, at least 2 or 3. And one individual is responsible for 2 of them. I shall refrain from naming names but, in way of a clue, he can often be quoted deriding “anonymity” whilst being guilty of operating “anonymous” accounts both in the past and the present.

      This very same person operated on this site under a previous guise until Stu binned him. Under his previous guise, just prior to being binned, he attacked Ian Brotherhood, Dorothy, RoS and you. The very same folk he regularly attacks under his current principal account.

      He often posts good intellectually literate posts, with many good points that are hard to argue against but he routinely spoils those efforts by constant aggressive childish name-calling peppered with an abundance of arrogance . He gives the impression only his way is how you win folk over. He often opines how others are in a minority and how their views will chase people away etc. Obviously ignorant to the concept of self-awareness.

      I believe, from reading on here, that he’s a failed blogger? Well, i wouldn’t know anything about that as i don’t even know the name of his blog so have never visited it. I suppose getting a major rival out of the picture would create a good starting point for a plan-b (aka: Envy & Desire – The Sequel)? 😉

      One more thing, his avatar is of a fictional artificial intelligence(AI) character from the 1980s(?) called ‘Max Headroom’. Max was the product of an unconscious mind who becomes a television host existing only on broadcast signals and computer systems. Look up ‘Max Headroom’ and you’ll see just how much our resident villain fancies himself. Deriding anonymity whilst hiding behind a fictional artificial intelligence avatar? Now if that’s not the height of hypocrisy then i don’t know what is. Still, he’s been great for the btl post count.

      There, i’ve given you more clues than first intended. 🙂 LOL!

    82. Ruby says:

      Stoker says:

      There, i’ve given you more clues than first intended. 🙂 LOL!

      You have indeed but I’m sorry I cannot name that person. 🙂

    83. Ottomanboi says:

      A little country with something they’re running out of.
      https://archive.ph/lGKgR
      Shall we move to North Britain darling?
      What’s a nice English word for LEBENSRAUM?

    84. Dorothy Devine says:

      Can anyone tell me how Kezia Dugdale became a Professor of anything?

    85. Ruby says:

      James says:
      12 August, 2022 at 1:11 pm

      Oh, and Arms Industry Andy Ellis should read Professor Alf Baird’s book ‘Doun Hauden’ and educate himself. Scotland passes the UN criteria for being described as a ‘political’ colony (i.e. resources/media/powers etc) being controlled by the country next door.

      Today’s crossword clue; “A country which has to ask the country next door for permission to hold a referendum to decide it’s own future.” Six letters. C_L_NY

      Is that the country that has English Votes for Everything?

      English votes for UK Prime Minister
      English votes for UK Parliament
      English votes for Trident
      English votes for Scotland Bill
      English votes for Brexit
      English votes for NO Indy Ref
      etc etc etc etc

      I wouldn’t like to be the person arguing that Scotland is not a colony.

      I’m sticking with Alf.

    86. Ruby says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      12 August, 2022 at 4:23 pm

      Can anyone tell me how Kezia Dugdale became a Professor of anything?

      Self-id?

    87. James che says:

      Scotland governance like England emulates america in volume) except both are without armies, unless they bring in and train foreign man power ( and they do) to fight their wars for them here from britain, And then insert them into the appropriate countries they wish to see regime change in,

      The future problem for all british people is that this new army will have no attached british loyalty to people the breadth of britain should our governments wish to styme any rebellion against poverty or energy crises or corruption.
      This is not a british army, but trained mechenaries to fight where they are sent by whomever pays them and provides the weapons,
      All of Britain is sleep walking, most if not three quarter of migrants coming across to Britain are young men of fighting age compared to women and children,
      Count the men in the boats,
      Then count the families or women.

      The appropriate amount enough to build a new army loyal to the piper that allowed them to stay and put them up with housing and hotels, mobile phones and food at great cost to british tax payers,
      While we have homeless people on the streets and people going to food banks. Nurses on poor pay, pensions stole from pensioners and a looming energy crises.

      Genuine people fleeing from other violent countries at war, do not want, wish or would leave behind their wives, children, parents, sisters, for fear of their safety should they abandon them in their homeland.
      During ww2 we saw the opposite happening,
      The children and women were shipped to safety first, most of the men put their families safety above their own first,
      Here in britain we witness the opposite happening.

      These men in their thousands trafficked will either be the future low paid workers of britain without workers rights or a conscripted army.

      This is the failing Brexit Britain that claimed after Brexit it would have control of its borders, its fishing, its farming, and would thrive,
      I have no wish at the moment to join a failing EU, nor do I want to be part of a poverty Brexit Britain,
      The Scottish government, and I mean All of the Scottish government that is supposed to look after the welfare of the people in Scotland have failed us.
      We are going down with the sinking ship,
      The devolved government as a whole has no loyalties to the Scottish population,
      political imprisonments are popular in America, its all the rage to imprison or attempt to imprison your political opposition.
      The snp, the scottish tories, the Scottish labour, the Scottish lib dems, the Scots= english law advocates and lawyers all sat and did nothing except join in in the witch hunts against political independent figures of which I have no need to mention here,

      The snp must withdraw its MPs from westminster now and act for Scots or go down with the sinking ship, by following American elimination of political opponents tactics.
      So far they have nailed their flag not to their home country, but a foreign one.
      It may well bring cown the devolved government in that we see it for what it is.

    88. Dan says:

      As SNP lose control of North Lanarkshire Council due to Linden’s libido, jist wondering if AIM / SNP have actually set a threshold for what is an isn’t appropriate in relation to sexual relations for Indy campaigners.

    89. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Hatuey 12.36 pm

      Ellis, I’m afraid to tell you again that Scott is right and you don’t understand the argument McAlpine was making.

      No, he’s not right. I do understand the argument he’s making, which is why I asked the questions I did.

      It’s really very simple; he’s saying that the status quo is increasingly going to suit nobody but a select few at the top, that all the rest (including the middle classes) are going to find themselves on the same side as the recession hammers them.

      I agree with him. Now….back to those questions that neither the clueless “Scott” not you appear able or willing to answer…..? In your own time….

      There are plenty of potential leadership candidates, Cherry, Salyers, you, etc.
      There are plenty people: whether they are leadership candidates or not remains to be seen. It’d be hard to argue that someone with Joanna cherry’s obvious talents wouldn’t figure, but then given the way she’s been treated she almost left politics last year. Sarah Salyers seems very erudite and has obviously done a powerful lot of work on Salvo, as have some on SSRG. Whether they aspire to leadership positions in “the movement” I don’t know.

      My point in asking the questions I did is to find out what people think the creation of the new alliance posited by Robin, not just with respect to who is in it or leads it, but how it is formed, what the timescales would be for it, what do we expect of it? Would it work along side pro-indy political parties, or aim to replace them? Is it a “ginger group” to promote policies, or a prototype “Yes Alliance” to serve as an umbrella organisation?

      I’m not expecting Robin or others to have answers to these points. I certainly wouldn’t expect some of the usual suspects in here to engage in reasoned debate about anything much, but there are (thankfully) still some adults in the room.

    90. Andy Ellis says:

      @James 1.04 pm

      And as for convincing undecideds, how exactly is that done when 99.9 percent of the foreign-based ‘media’ is actively reporting anti-Scottish lies to keep independence facts from the general public?

      That old chestnut again? Really? It’s all the fault of the wicked furriner owned meedja? That’s your best shot.

      What explains the conversion of all those former No voters between 2012 and 2014 James?

    91. Republicofscotland says:

      “Can anyone tell me how Kezia Dugdale became a Professor of anything?”

      Dorothy.

      Britnat connections that’s how, they are kept in the loop after being rejected at Holyrood and parachuted into unionist gatekeeping positions in Scotland, some enter into NGO’s or think tanks, that have a certain groups interests at heart, which is never the average punters on the street, its usually corporate or the arm industry.

      None of them are remotely interested in Scotland becoming independent.

      In Scotland these groups are centered around Edinburgh’s Charlotte street/Sq, and in England its Tufton street in London, but they can set up shop anywhere, like Integrity Initiative did in a barn near Motherwell.

      They all receive funding from a wide range of individuals and corporate and sometimes government bodies, such as Gordon Brown’s think tank, which has recently received £250,000 quid from an unknown source.

    92. Andy Ellis says:

      @James 1.11 pm

      Oh, and Arms Industry Andy Ellis should read Professor Alf Baird’s book ‘Doun Hauden’ and educate himself. Scotland passes the UN criteria for being described as a ‘political’ colony (i.e. resources/media/powers etc) being controlled by the country next door.

      I have read it. I found it unconvincing.

      If Scotland passes the UN criteria, can you provide the link to the UN adding it to the list of Non-Self Governing Territories like Gibraltar and New Caledonia then? They provide annual statements on each of them.

    93. Merganser says:

      Stoker and Ruby.

      Andy seems to have gone a bit quiet since I pointed out he had been had by Sturgeon over the ‘plebiscitary election’, and suggested he look at Peter Bell’s article ‘What happens next’

      This is a pity because I enjoyed debating with him. Some of his points made a lot of sense and were well thought out.

      His Achilles’ heel seems to be his inability to accept that he is not always right, whereas I….am no different to Andy in this respect.

    94. Christopher Pike says:

      James says:
      12 August, 2022 at 1:11 pm

      Oh, and Arms Industry Andy Ellis should read Professor Alf Baird’s book ‘Doun Hauden’ and educate himself. Scotland passes the UN criteria for being described as a ‘political’ colony (i.e. resources/media/powers etc) being controlled by the country next door.

      Today’s crossword clue; “A country which has to ask the country next door for permission to hold a referendum to decide it’s own future.” Six letters. C_L_NY

      ——–

      Scotland is not a colony. Scotland, together with England, created the largest and most powerful empire in human history – Scotland was a coloniser.

      “Today’s crossword clue; “A country which has to ask the country next door for permission to hold a referendum to decide it’s own future.” Six letters. C_L_NY”.

      The international community doesn’t view Scotland and England as separate nation-states, it views the United Kingdom as being a unitary, sovereign state. Scotland is a constituent nation within the UK but it is not a sovereign nation recognised under international law.

    95. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Stoker (3.54) –

      Are we talking a long time ago, when this previous incarnation was around?

      I’m genuinely stumped!

      🙂

    96. Republicofscotland says:

      “If Scotland passes the UN criteria, can you provide the link to the UN adding it to the list of Non-Self Governing Territories like Gibraltar and New Caledonia then,”

      Ellis.

      You know fine well Scotland’s not on (C24 list) it, because we have a devolved government, however that doesn’t stop Westminster from treating Scotland, a country, as a colony by denying its people their right to democracy to hold an indyref we have had countless mandates to do so.

      The fact aside, that the treacherous bast*rd Sturgeon has no intentions of ridding us of this god awful union is neither here nor there when it comes to Westminster denying Scots their democratic right, which along with machinations against Scotland that appear colonial in nature leads many Scots to believe that Scotland is a colony and who could disagree with them.

    97. Dan says:

      John Main says: at 11:09 am

      The remaining part of what I am saying is that No voters, new Scots, the dont-give-a-fuck brigade, are all susceptible to a convincing explanation and plausibly evidenced guarantee that Indy will make them personally better off.

      Incoming convincing explanation and plausibly evidenced guarantee that Indy will make them personally better off…

      Scotland has a much better resources to population ratio than England.
      Ergo, using the coefficient of fuckwittery figure of the current UK government who have control of all UK assets and have manage to create the current shitshow, any future self-governing administration of Scotland in control of all Scottish resources would have to be a magnitude or twa of fuckwittery worse performing than Westminster to achieve parity with current UK citizen wealth levels.

    98. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This may be of interest to those who follow the use of propaganda in ‘conflict’ situations:

      twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1558042742973992961

    99. Andy Ellis says:

      @Stoker 3.54 pm

      I shall refrain from naming names but, in way of a clue, he can often be quoted deriding “anonymity” whilst being guilty of operating “anonymous” accounts both in the past and the present.

      It’d be no surprise that an anonymous poster like yourself would attempt to deflect by asserting things they have no evidence for. I don’t have anonymous accounts. This is my only account. Unlike all too many of the moonhowlers in here, I don’t see the need to be a snivelling coward. I’m not scared to own my views. It’s not hard to discern why you and other keyboard warriors in here are keen not to post under your own names.

      This very same person operated on this site under a previous guise until Stu binned him. Under his previous guise, just prior to being binned, he attacked Ian Brotherhood, Dorothy, RoS and you. The very same folk he regularly attacks under his current principal account.

      Total fantasy on your part I’m afraid. I’ve no idea who you’re referring to, but I’ve never been binned by Stu. How you would be in a position to know this to be the case escapes me too. Conspiracy theorists gonna conspiracy theorise perhaps? Always easier to believe a comforting lie than a hard truth I suppose.

      He often posts good intellectually literate posts, with many good points that are hard to argue against but he routinely spoils those efforts by constant aggressive childish name-calling peppered with an abundance of arrogance . He gives the impression only his way is how you win folk over. He often opines how others are in a minority and how their views will chase people away etc. Obviously ignorant to the concept of self-awareness.

      OK, so you like the content, but not the presentation? Cry me a river. I respond to those who attack me: big deal. A minority of abusive and usually potty mouthed individuals in here don’t like being described as nativists, moonhowlers or of punting regressive policies which I believe harm the movement. You can disagree, but it’s totally fair comment as far as I’m concerned.

      Passing strange that the folk attacking me rarely if ever called out those routinely cunt-calling me and others, or the creepy as fuck stalkers (who I’m sure I don’t need to name either….sauce for the goose and all that, eh?) posting personal details.

      Presumable I’m allowed to opine that I think my views represent those of majority? You’re free to disagree and/or try and prove me wrong. Or you can just assert the opposite. Glad we cleared that up. Feel better for airing that little gem now, do you?

      Before you somewhat laughably try to take the moral high ground or question my self awareness you might like to extract the plank from your eye “Stoker”.

      I believe, from reading on here, that he’s a failed blogger? Well, i wouldn’t know anything about that as i don’t even know the name of his blog so have never visited it. I suppose getting a major rival out of the picture would create a good starting point for a plan-b (aka: Envy & Desire – The Sequel)? ?

      You’ve been paying too much attention to the creepy as fuck stalker I’m afraid. I don’t have the time or the wordpress skills – or any real desire to attain them – to run a blog. I put a few things up years ago, and have barely looked at it since. I’m not sure that makes me a “failed blogger”? A “can’t be arsed blogger” perhaps? Or a “never really go in to it blogger” perhaps?

      How would I have the ability or desire to “get a major rival out of the picture”? A few pieces posted on a blog years ago which has been dormant ever since doesn’t really equate to being a rival of this or any other regular blog. I’d have thought those punting regressive nativism and the false “Scotland as colony” snake oil were more of a threat, but you do you and we’ll see where it ends up, huh?

      What was it you were saying about self awareness again, “Stoker”?

      Deriding anonymity whilst hiding behind a fictional artificial intelligence avatar? Now if that’s not the height of hypocrisy then i don’t know what is. Still, he’s been great for the btl post count.

      Except I’m not anonymous am I “Stoker”? There are folk who know who I am. The creepy as fuck stalker in here likes to keep dropping wee hints, not just about me but about my daughter – for reasons best known to himself, but personality issues is a definite possibility from the MO. Most of the other pieces of work throwing their rhetorical nativist shit around in here are desperate to maintain their anonymity. It’s not hard to see why.

      I don’t think anything can be read in to the choice of avatar, other than a fondness for Max Headroom and things of the era. I don’t think any reasonable person would draw the automatic inference from avatar use that the person using it fancied himself. I suppose it comes down the self awareness point you keep making anonymous “Stoker” of the empty avatar.

    100. Ruby says:

      I need more information about the UN & this C24 list

      Is Scotland even listed as a country?

      Where do the UN get their info from for their C24 list.

      Keep in mind the UK’s legal advice re Scotland stated Scotland ceased to exist in 1707 when it became Lesser England.

    101. Andy Ellis says:

      @Merganser 5.08 pm

      Andy seems to have gone a bit quiet since I pointed out he had been had by Sturgeon over the ‘plebiscitary election’, and suggested he look at Peter Bell’s article ‘What happens next’

      I didn’t go a bit quiet because I lacked a response or wan’t going to debate but because I didn’t see it. I haven’t been had by Sturgeon at all. I and others – including Rev Stu – have been advocating plebiscitary elections as an alternative to a britnat “stymied” indyref for years.

      I’d sooner have my foreskin removed with a rust Stanley knife than read Peter Bell’s latest thoughts on anything, thanks all the same.

      This is a pity because I enjoyed debating with him. Some of his points made a lot of sense and were well thought out.

      His Achilles’ heel seems to be his inability to accept that he is not always right, whereas I….am no different to Andy in this respect.

      Careful….the moonhowlers are getting restive. Anyone who disagrees with them is -ipso facto it seems – not a “real” independence supporter, or is a Sturgeonista stooge, or 77th Brigade or an agent of the WEF / George Soros / the Illuminati or the Space lizards in human suits.

      I certainly don’t think I’m always right. I remember the last time I wasn’t….sometime in 1979 I think….? 🙂 But seriously folks, of COURSE I think I’m right about certain things, including the ones I tend to post about on here, or get into debates about. some people are worth listening to, some aren’t. Some I don’t agree with are reasonable people, some aren’t. Some of those I heartily disagree with on issues like franchise, nativism and colonisation I may agree with on certain other issues like GRA, women’s rights, the EU.

      There are however a coterie of folk in here I would happily cross the road to avoid pissing on if they were on fire, whether they are pro-independence or not.

      Such is life!

    102. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 5.14

      “You know fine well Scotland’s not on (C24 list) it,…”

      Congratulations. You win a coconut! Must feel good being right about something for once, huh?

      ….because we have a devolved government, …

      Gibraltar and Bermuda have devolved governments too. Tell us RoS…are they on the list….? Wait for it……..

    103. Scott says:

      Don’t understand why the potty-mouthed are getting a hard time from Ellis; We’re all adults, the odd sweary word is to be expected given the circumstances.

    104. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/qzySB

      They hate the word colony!

      https://archive.ph/UPEQY

      So weird!

    105. Republicofscotland says:

      Elis @6.08pm.

      I see again that you avoid the crux of the matter, no surprise there then. That Westminster is denying Scots the democratic right to determine whether or not they want to stay or leave the union.

      Mind you the Westminster government is similar to the Great Satan (US) when it comes to democracy, it to has denied Guam the right to change its status.

      Also this.

      “Since 1946, the UNGA has maintained a list of non-self governing territories under member states’ control. Since its inception, dozens of territories have been removed from the list, typically when they attained independence or internal self-government.”

      And then there’s this.

      “Chapter XI of the United Nations Charter defines a non-self-governing territory (NSGT) as a territory “whose people have not yet attained a full measure of self-government”. ”

      Scotland does not enjoy the FULL measures of self government.

    106. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott”

      Don’t understand why the potty-mouthed are getting a hard time from Ellis; We’re all adults, the odd sweary word is to be expected given the circumstances.

      The odd swear word where called for it can be le mot juste. Sometimes the circumstances do merit it, yes. I think we all know that’s not what we’re talking about. Well….those with any sense of perspective will know, so as you were “Scott”.

    107. Ruby says:

      Did you know that the name Gibraltar is Arabic?

      Gib al Tariq

      It means the Mountain/Rock of Tariq.

      Tariq was the Moorish invader who conquered Gibraltar way back probably sometime between 711-1492

      Gib is hill/mountain/rock or something like that in Arabic.

      Sure I could Google more precise info but I’m busy & it doesn’t matter cos all
      I wanted to say is you would have thought the British coloniser would have changed the name of the rock.

      I wonder what it was called before Gibraltar? ‘El Peñon d’Espana’ perhaps.

    108. Republicofscotland says:

      Oh look another demo outside the Spanish owned Scottish power in my home town of Glasgow, it looks like a varied group of folk, I wonder if Boyle thinks that the staff were (Bold) TERRIFIED!!!!!!!!

      Mind you that old lady with a walking stick and a handbag looked awfully suspicious.

    109. Ruby says:

      What is the difference between a British Overseas Territory & a Colony?

      This discussion about Scotland being a colony is a lot more interesting than talking about the franchise.

    110. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      12 August, 2022 at 6:42 pm

      The odd swear word where called for it can be le mot juste. Sometimes the circumstances do merit it, yes. I think we all know that’s not what we’re talking about.

      There you go again, redefining your own words to suit – ie when directed at you it’s not ok, but fine for if directed at anyone else.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/out-in-the-cold/#comment-2593229

      Thanks for playing along, chump.

    111. Andy Ellis says:

      @RoS 6.34 pm

      I see again that you avoid the crux of the matter, no surprise there then. That Westminster is denying Scots the democratic right to determine whether or not they want to stay or leave the union.

      I’m not avoiding it all. What an odd statement. I fully accept Westminster is denying Scots their democratic rights. It’s what is to be done about it that is the $64,000 question.

      Mind you the Westminster government is similar to the Great Satan (US) when it comes to democracy, it to has denied Guam the right to change its status.

      “Great Satan” yadda, yadda [insert RoS bonkers false equivalence here] *yawn*.

      Also this….and this

      So Scotland IS on the list then…? Oh, that’s fine. We can declare UDI like all the other colonies then. Alf and all his mates will be thrilled. Shame all that Salvo & SSRG stuff was a waste of time since the UN have done all the heavy lifting for us!

      No……

      wait….

      Do I need to get the toy farm animals out again for the “small….and FAR away” discussion Father Dougal?

    112. Republicofscotland says:

      Scotland is in a union created by treaties, treaties that can be dissolved, did Westminster need to ask for permission for the UK to leave the EU, or did it just go straight to a vote on it.

      Is there a treaty in the world where one partner (we’re told that’s what we are in this union) needs the permission of the other partner to dissolve the treaty.

      ” no fewer than thirteen
      articles of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (VCLT) contain
      termination, denunciation, or withdrawal rules that apply when States do not
      negotiate treaty-specific rules on these topics.1 These ‘exit’ provisions share a
      distinctive attribute: they authorize one treaty member acting unilaterally or all
      treaty parties acting collectively to end their obligations under an international
      agreement.2 The act of exiting pursuant to these provisions is thus distinguishable
      from a termination or withdrawal in response to breach by another treaty party.”

      Scotland is a state (country) treaties are formed between states, and dissolved between states all the time.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties#:~:text=%20%20%20Vienna%20Convention%20on%20the%20Law,35%20states%20%5B1%5D%20%206%20more%20rows%20

      Maybe we’re going about leaving this union in the wrong way, maybe we should be contacting this lot and explaining our situation. That we want to dissolve the treaties formed between two STATES.

      Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties Between States and International Organizations or Between International
      Organizations.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Convention_on_the_Law_of_Treaties_Between_States_and_International_Organizations_or_Between_International_Organizations

    113. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ruby and ROS , I think Ruby wins – self ID a brilliant response!

    114. Derek Rogers says:

      @Ruby 5:57 pm

      C-24 is the name of a committee set up by the UN in 1961 to address the question of decolonisation. In 1963 the C-24 Committee drew up a list of those to whom the Declaration applied – i.e.non-self governing territories that were of concern to them. That list still has 17 entries:

      https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/en/nsgt

      The list includes Gibraltar, but not Scotland. The UK is the Administering Power for 10 of those 17 territories, and therefore is a major player in the ‘let’s not de-colonise’ game.

      The C-24 Committee decides annually who gets removed from the list or added to it, but I can find no criteria laid down. The members of the C-24 Committee include China, Russian and India, so change will be slow.

      It’s not relevant to Scottish independence. Now that you know that it’s just plain old what-abouttery, you can ignore it and all those who talk about it.

    115. Ruby says:

      Cheers Dorothy!

      You got any idea how Kezia Dugdale became leader of Labour in Scotland?

    116. Ruby says:

      I think I’ve got it now.

      Scotland cannot be a colony cos although it is small it is not far away.

    117. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott” 7.00 pm

      There you go again, redefining your own words to suit – ie when directed at you it’s not ok, but fine for if directed at anyone else.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/out-in-the-cold/#comment-2593229

      Thanks for playing along, chump.

      You have a talent for posting what you obviously *think* are slam dunk responses which are in fact nothing of the sort. Over use is an issue. So the odd swear word for emphasis or in frustration is hardly likely to bother most folk, particularly in here. Continual casual use of…let’s say cunt-calling might be regarded as something different.

      Most reasonable folk wouldn’t find that an exceptional view. My earlier post and the one above are quite coherent. Fear not, nobody believes you are numbered amongst the reasonable.

    118. Mark Boyle says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      12 August, 2022 at 7:41 pm

      12 August, 2022 at 11:38 am

      ‘Medieval history’ encompasses 500 years of unwritten records, if it isn’t something based on faith and assertion, what is?

      eg The Viking Age is based on wishful thinking, that revolves around conquest and colonisation, raping and pillaging, with no thought given to peaceful assimilation, and hunners of shagging, because talk of such was banned in texts at the time.

      Even ‘experts’ acknowledge the limits of their knowledge imposed by the Dark Ages lack of solid fact.

      No one in academia has used the term “Dark Ages” this century for good reason, champ.

      ‘Medieval history’ encompasses 500 years of unwritten records … oh you mean like the Doomsday Book, the Venerable Bede’s history, the Continuatio Medievalis, the Auchinleck Manuscript, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, Magna Carta, the Ragman Rolls, Richard Fawques’ account of Flodden, the Fons memorabilium uniuersi, the Icelandic sagas, the Madrid Skylitzes, etc, etc, etc?

    119. Ruby says:

      Derek Rogers says:
      12 August, 2022 at 7:20 pm

      It’s not relevant to Scottish independence.

      Cheers Derek. Thanks for info.

      When doing my ‘research’ on Google I spotted some info about an iScotland inheriting a share of all these colonies.

      What would we do?

      For example:

      Would we give our 1/8th of Gibraltar to Spain.

      Would our section be at the north end where the airport runway is or on the seafront where all the good fishing is or in the middle where all the casinos are.

      Why are Spain so keen to block Scottish independence?

      Then there’s the Malvinas?

    120. Merganser says:

      Andy Ellis @ 6.04

      Re: Peter Bell.

      It’s great to see you back and firing on all cylinders.

      I wouldn’t ask you to go through the rusty Stanley knife procedure, but I would be interested to know what prevents you from at least reading his views, even if you strongly disagree with him.

      I have to confess that I don’t know much about him, but you obviously do. Have you crossed swords with him in the past?

    121. Republicofscotland says:

      Here the betrayer is wasting millions on a computer system for the (SSS) Scottish Social Security that will remain highly dependent on the DWPs system after independence, a sure sign that the betrayers doesn’t envisage an indy Scotland anytime soon.

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/08/12/money-is-tightreally/

      And here how the power companies are robbing our assets in more ways than you thought.

      “SSE, owned by the international conglomerate OVO would not give the work to BIFAB, and by all accounts bankrupted the BIFAB yard which had invested specifically to build jackets.”

      https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/2022/08/12/power-and-jobs-are-given-away/

    122. John Main says:

      @James 1:04

      “And as for convincing undecideds …”

      Why not start right now, right here, James.

      Should be a doddle. Not like the BBC or the hostile MSM can stop you posting on here, right James?

      Just don’t write anything about “having faith”.

      Anyways, enough. Keenly awaiting your reply.

    123. Scott says:

      “You have a talent for posting what you obviously *think* are slam dunk responses which are in fact nothing of the sort. Over use is an issue. So the odd swear word for emphasis or in frustration is hardly likely to bother most folk, particularly in here. Continual casual use of…let’s say cunt-calling might be regarded as something different.” – Ellis

      When was the last time anyone called you a cunt btl?

      Let it go. You keep carrying this anger, it’ll eat you up inside.

      You could always refrain from posting, like that time you flounced off in the huff in Oct 2020.

      “I may drop in now and then to read threads that interest me, but I’m bowing out for good with respect to BTL comments: it’s just not worth the effort anymore.” – https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-telescopes-eye/#comment-2576280

      We all express frustration at times – you, like the hypocrite you are, recently attacked Ian Brotherhood for saying the same thing, again out of frustration.

      And thanks for the compliment at the beginning; it really isn’t hard, as your wife would no doubt testify.

    124. Ruby says:

      There was only ever one person on here who was continually called a cunt.

      In my opinion cunt was le mot juste.

      I haven’t changed my mind about that but I have been paying attention to Stu’s warning:

      Andy Ellis, Ruby: if either of you ever mentions the other by name (including any “clever” ways of doing so indirectly) again in any context whatsoever you’re banned. Clear? Not comment deleted, not pre-moderation, banned.

      I have HAD ENOUGH of this fucking playground shit.

      I am being good but I’m just wondering why I was singled out. Was it just because I used le mot juste?

    125. Mark Boyle says:

      ?

    126. Mark Boyle says:

      12 August, 2022 at 11:38 am

      ‘Medieval history’ encompasses 500 years of unwritten records, if it isn’t something based on faith and assertion, what is?

      Unwritten records like the Anglo Saxon Chronicle, the Doomsday Book the Ragman Rolls, the Declaration of Arbroath, the Madrid Skylitzes, the Auchinleck manuscript … aye, another piece of your stunning analysis there!

    127. John Main says:

      @Ruby 8:00 PM

      Did you mean 1/8th, or 1//8000000000th?

      Recent uncertainty over your ability to use numbers is causing me to question everything you post.

    128. John Main says:

      @Ruby 5:57

      You spelled “country” wrong.

    129. Ruby says:

      John Main says:
      12 August, 2022 at 8:14 pm

      @James 1:04

      “And as for convincing undecideds …”

      Why not start right now, right here, James.

      Why don’t you lead by example?

    130. John Main says:

      @RoS 6:34

      See? Here is a poster who clearly believes that great swathes of people are reading the BTL comments, many of whom have never visited this site before.

      Why else would he constantly need to explain just what he means by the “Great Satan”?

      We get it RoS. Loud and clear. Repeated ad Infinitim. Also ad nauseum.

      Why not mix it up a little for fresh interest RoS? Elaborate on the identities of the Lesser Satan, the subordinate Satans, the enabler Satans, the tractor Satans, and maybes also the running-dog mini-me Satans.

    131. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott 8.20 pm

      When was the last time anyone called you a cunt btl?

      Not since they stopped doing it under threat of being banned. I won’t name them because….well, folk know why.

      Let it go. You keep carrying this anger, it’ll eat you up inside.

      No, it won’t. Trust me, I carry a good grudge. I think if people tell you who they are you should believe them.

      You could always refrain from posting, like that time you flounced off in the huff in Oct 2020.

      As regular and alert readers will know, the reason for the flounce was Spameron Brodie. I was hardly alone in my frustration with his constant spamming. Again, you cluelessly post links to things that “prove” the opposite of what you think.

      I starting posting again when Brodie was – finally and mercifully – binned by Rev Stu. Also worth pointing out that quite a few people shared my general view of the state of affairs BTL with Brodies incessant posting, including a number still posting here.

      I’m not going to let potty mouthed no-marks stop me posting now, which is why I am abiding by Rev Stu’s most recent strictures. I’m sure others are too right? I wouldn’t necessarily know because I find it best to ignore certain posters altogether.

      We all express frustration at times – you, like the hypocrite you are, recently attacked Ian Brotherhood for saying the same thing, again out of frustration.

      The difference is that Brotherhood flounced off, and returned without any change in circumstance.

      And thanks for the compliment at the beginning; it really isn’t hard, as your wife would no doubt testify.

      Yeah, my wife told me you weren’t hard. Let us know when you and your carer come on that visit to Edinburgh and we can come and point and laugh at you both.

    132. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ruby , nobody left as the others were all hiding in Greggs?

    133. Andy Ellis says:

      @merganser

      It’s great to see you back and firing on all cylinders.

      Why thanks. Expect “incoming” from the usual suspects. Doubtless you’ll be accused of being another of my (apparently numerous) sock puppet accounts. Conspiracy theorist will conspiracy theorise of course.

      Little better can be expected of people who unselfconsciously use terms like the Great Satan to refer to the USA, have constant recourse to cunt calling in lieu of argument, or insist those that disagree with them are closet unionists.

      I wouldn’t ask you to go through the rusty Stanley knife procedure, but I would be interested to know what prevents you from at least reading his views, even if you strongly disagree with him.

      I have to confess that I don’t know much about him, but you obviously do. Have you crossed swords with him in the past?

      Life’s just too short. I’ve never met the guy, although I saw him in action at an SNP National Assembly when I was still a member. We don’t see eye to eye on much. He also doesn’t respond well to criticism, which is fair enough I suppose. I’m not above biting back myself.

      Actually a big part of it is just finding his prose style a bit constipated and circumlocutory, quite apart from the content. It’s the nationalist equivalent of Effie Deans. 🙂

    134. Republicofscotland says:

      “Elaborate on the identities of the Lesser Satan, ”

      Now that you mention it Main.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Satan

    135. Scott says:

      “Yeah, my wife told me you weren’t hard. Let us know when you and your carer come on that visit to Edinburgh and we can come and point and laugh at you both.” – Ellis

      —-

      Oh my…

    136. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      12 August, 2022 at 8:20 pm

      When was the last time anyone called you a cunt btl?

      Maybe next time you could ask why he’s banned from mentioning my name.

    137. Andy Ellis says:

      Worth noting that the awful news of Salman Rushdie’s stabbing in New York demonstrates the danger of cancel culture. A fatwa is the ultimate expression of such othering of those who espouse different views.

      Be under no illusions: TRAs are attempting to enable the same kind of fear in those they regard as beyond the pale. Who dares publish anything blasphemous to Islam now? The implied threat discourages most, the actions of the extremists who are prepared to use violence is the ultimate deterrent.

      Thoughts are with Rushdie, his family and friends. 🙁

    138. Dan says:

      Hmm, I notice no response of support or critique from Mr Main about my coefficient of fuckwittery Indy campaigning strategy.

      So I’ll post these old Scottish stats up and suggest we work to produce the comparative stats for England to garner approximate resources to population figures for them.

      SCOTLAND WITH ONLY 9% OF THE UK POPULATION HAS:

      32% of the land area.
      61% of the sea area.
      90% of the fresh water.
      65% of the natural gas production
      96.5% of the crude oil production.
      47% of the open cast coal production
      81% of the untapped coal reserves
      62% of the timber production
      46% of the total forest area
      92% of the hydro electric production
      40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
      60% of the fish landings
      30% of the beef herd
      20% of the sheep herd
      9% of the dairy herd
      10% of the pig herd
      15% if the cereal holdings
      20% of the potato holdings
      90% of the whisky industry
      70% of gin production

      SCOTLAND WITH ONLY 1% OF EUROPE’S POPULATION HAS:

      25% of Europe’s tidal energy
      25% of wind power
      10% of wave energy
      Over 60% of EU oil production (largest oil reserve in the EU)
      33% of the EUs total hydrocarbon production

    139. Dan says:

      Maybe it’s not this simple but surely gives an idea…

      ENGLAND WITH ONLY 91% OF THE UK POPULATION HAS:

      68% of the land area.
      39% of the sea area.
      10% of the fresh water.
      35% of the natural gas production
      3.5% of the crude oil production.
      53% of the open cast coal production
      19% of the untapped coal reserves
      38% of the timber production
      54% of the total forest area
      8% of the hydro electric production
      60% of the wind wave and solar energy production
      40% of the fish landings
      70% of the beef herd
      80% of the sheep herd
      91% of the dairy herd
      90% of the pig herd
      85% if the cereal holdings
      80% of the potato holdings
      10% of the whisky industry
      30% of gin production

      Now those resource to population stats look a bit sketchy to me…

    140. … such othering of those who espouse different views`

      a lot of `spittle flecked moon howling nativists` just spat their tea out.

    141. Andy Ellis says:

      @Scott Finlayson

      Yeah, yeah…you and yer regressive mates are definitely comparable….

      No, wait…..the other thing.

      Jeezus wept: a man is fighting for his life after being attacked having spent 30 years under the shadow of death and violence, I make the (entirely reasonable) comparison with the violence and cancel culture being promoted by TRA’s….and your whinge is being called hurty names?

      You’re going to have to wait for me to find my tiniest violin Scot.

    142. Merganser says:

      Andy Ellis @ 9.00pm

      I don’t think there is much chance of me being regarded as one of your sock puppets in view of our completely different positions on plebiscitary elections, and the fact I have said you have been ‘had’ by Sturgeon over this issue, which I still think to be the case.

      Which reminds me, have you any idea why Alex is blowing cold on the value of a plebiscitary election now? And do you know if the Rev Stu. has had a similar rethink? A lot has been written about this since the idea was first mentioned, and it’s attraction seems to be on the wane.

    143. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      12 August, 2022 at 9:57 pm

      Jeezus wept: a man is fighting for his life after being attacked having spent 30 years under the shadow of death and violence, I make the (entirely reasonable) comparison with the violence and cancel culture being promoted by TRA’s….and your whinge is being called hurty names?

      Same ‘wrong context’ energy from yet another of the narcissists ruining the meaning of things to serve their own personal agenda.

      “Don’t have anything particularly clearheaded to say, but the stabbing of Salman Rushdie (though it has decades-old origins) alongside the campaign of threats and intimidation against drag queens in the US makes it feel like a very grim, dangerous time for artistic expression.” – Ash Sarkar

      http://www.twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1558136262011273219?s=20t=RARUdJvSYf2H8FSauJFn9w

    144. McDuff says:

      Dan
      The SNP should be screaming these statistics from the rooftops but they never have and never will. And isn`t that just a tad odd for a party whose whole existence is Scottish independence.

    145. Andy Ellis says:

      @Merganser 10.04 pm

      I doubt you and I having opposing views on that issue will stop the moonhowlers.

      I don’t see how you think I or others have been “had” by Sturgeon. She’s had to adopt the concept that many of us had been advocating for yonks, because she’s running out of runway.

      As for Alex, I’m not sure if he’s blowing cold “now”, as I don’t know if he was ever keen on the idea in the first place. From what he said last Saturday he’d prefer some form of direct action to plebiscitary elections, and he’s not a fan of the requirement for a majority of both seats and votes being required.

      As far as Im aware Stu’s views haven’t changed, but not seen him post on it.

    146. Scott says:

      Merganser says:
      12 August, 2022 at 10:04 pm

      Andy Ellis @ 9.00pm

      I don’t think there is much chance of me being regarded as one of your sock puppets in view of our completely different positions on plebiscitary elections, and the fact I have said you have been ‘had’ by Sturgeon over this issue, which I still think to be the case.

      Which reminds me, have you any idea why Alex is blowing cold on the value of a plebiscitary election now? And do you know if the Rev Stu. has had a similar rethink? A lot has been written about this since the idea was first mentioned, and it’s attraction seems to be on the wane.

      —-

      So fucking transparent, innit.

    147. Merganser says:

      Scott @ 10.17

      Happy to have a meaningful debate with you if care to explain what you mean.

    148. Scott says:

      During this time of crisis, Nicola Sturgeon bleats that Holyrood is powerless to effect meaningful change for residents of Scotland.

      Has she ever actually read the Scotland Act 1998?

      31 A Two-thirds majority for Bills relating to a protected subject-matter

      If the Presiding Officer states under section 31(2A) that in his view any provision of a Bill relates to a protected subject-matter, the Bill is not passed unless the number of members voting in favour of it at the final stage is at least two-thirds of the total number of seats for members of the Parliament.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/section/31A

      Recalling the Scottish Parliament and laying a Bill that would, even temporarily, allow direct measures and let the unionists vote according to their conscience, is within our Government’s gift.

      Doing fuck-all of substance by waiting on a new PM to be appointed is a choice, not an obligation – it’s criminal neglect.

    149. Scott says:

      Merganser says:
      12 August, 2022 at 10:47 pm

      Scott @ 10.17

      Happy to have a meaningful debate with you if care to explain what you mean.

      I already have. The floor is yours, Senator.

    150. Ruby says:

      Merganser says:
      12 August, 2022 at 10:04 pm

      A lot has been written about this since the idea was first mentioned, and it’s attraction seems to be on the wane.

      I haven’t been reading much about it recently but I was 100% in agreement with you on day one. Nobody voted for a ‘de facto referendum’ I am amazed that there are people who are happy to roll over and accept this crap. We were promised a referendum and it’s up to Sturgeon to get us that referendum if she can’t she should resign. I haven’t read Peter Bell’s article yet but I will do. I’ve been busy doing research into ‘Scotland’s Colonial Status’.

    151. Ruby says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      12 August, 2022 at 8:59 pm

      Ruby , nobody left as the others were all hiding in Greggs?

      Got you! She became leader of Labour in Scotland because she didn’t like sausage rolls. 🙂

    152. Ottomanboi says:

      Independence…
      https://archive.ph/LTQE1
      Merely froth on her coffee.

      «Sturgeon pledged to treat the people of Scotland as grownups at her daily briefings…. imposing tighter local lockdowns»
      Plainly a concept of freedom with constraints.
      https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/

    153. PacMan says:

      O/T

      On going onto the internet about a totally different topic, I had come across a piece of hidden Scottish history called the Battle of Glasgow which involved a group of martial arts trained suffragettes fighting with the police who was trying to arrest Emmeline Pankhurst when she trying to do a speech in Glasgow in 1914.

      It sounds like something straight out of a comic book but is actually true:

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fheritage-and-retro%2Fheritage%2Fscotlands-hidden-history-of-suffragettes-and-self-defence-3302979

      Emmeline Pankhurst, leader of the Women’s Social and Political Union (WSPU), spoke at a meeting in Glasgow on March 9, 1914 at the former St Andrew’s Hall where the Mitchell library now stands.

      What unfolded that day in Scotland’s largest city, a confrontation between suffragettes and police, has become known as The Battle of Glasgow.

      Around 30 martial arts-trained suffragettes fought 50 police constables and detectives on and around a stage, in front of an audience of thousands.

    154. PacMan says:

      Ottomanboi says: 13 August, 2022 at 9:02 am

      Independence…
      https://archive.ph/LTQE1
      Merely froth on her coffee.

      It feels like she is trying to project the image of what is usually done by Banana republic despotic strong men. Given that one of the photos details the expensive designer clothes she is wearing, it really says it all, she is totally fake.

      The posturing would be laughable if it wasn’t for the fact that she has single-handedly caused untold damage to the independence cause.

    155. Andy Ellis says:

      Ooooft… Kirk Torrance shoots and scores! Chapeau sir…!

      https://twitter.com/KirkJTorrance/status/1558029915383111680?cxt=HHwWgIC9_YD9nZ8rAAAA

    156. Republicofscotland says:

      BLiS and the London Tory branch office in Scotland voted against a 5% pay rise for council workers in Scotland leaving them with the prospects of a measly 3.5% wage rise.

      “The 3.5% offer has infuriated unions, whose members are now set to strike, as the smaller rise will only contribute approximately £15m whilst allowing hundreds of millions in council reserves to remain.

      Authorities where GMB members have decided to strike are Aberdeen, Angus, Dundee, East Ayrshire, East Lothian, Falkirk, Glasgow, Inverclyde, Highland, Midlothian, Orkney, South Ayrshire, South Lanarkshire, West Lothian, Perth and Kinross, and North Lanarkshire.”

      We expect this from the Tory scumbags, and we’ve come to expect it from the the Red Tories now as well, disgraceful.

    157. Robert Hughes says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      13 August, 2022 at 9:47 am

      ” Ooooft… Kirk Torrance shoots and scores! Chapeau sir ”

      Yes , but as someone on that thread said ….

      “From her point of view it has went fabulously. Vogue magazine. Hobnobbing with royalty. An adoring fanbase. Celebrities and movie star selfies. Multiple extra-marital affairs. Tours of Italy/France/USA. TV chat shows. VIP tickets to big events. Face on buses. She’s had a ball!!”

      This is exactly what I’ve been thinking

    158. Republicofscotland says:

      Horsebox Mike prattling on here as usual, the jist of the article is Tories bad and selfish.

      I found this sentence from Russell telling.

      “Those profits typify all that is wrong with the current state of the UK, which seems sunk in a farrago of selfishness and greed.”

      He could easily be describing SNP MSPs and MPs, and of course the betrayer, but that sentiment is lost on Horsebox Mike, all appears well to him in the land of the SNP.

      Russell endorsed the exclusion of indy parties in Scotland that don’t conform to the SNP’s wokie principles, it is of course an attempt to exclude the REAL party for Scottish independence the Alba party.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fpolitics%2F20630088.michael-russell-energy-crisis-will-bring-end-renewed-localism%2F

    159. Republicofscotland says:

      As Scotland circles the plughole and the cost of living crisis sees hard pressed families struggle, which will only get worse, the Betrayer has popped her head up above the parapet, not to announce some sort of mitigating measures to help struggling Scots, no she’s been mumbling on about the August Supermoon.

      Its good to see the betrayer has got her priorities in order, one wonders just how much more damage she’ll do to Scotland and its economy before the faithful realise what a fraud she is, for some the penny will never drop.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20627887.nicola-sturgeon-jokes-august-sturgeon-supermoon-shares-stunning-edinburgh-photo%2F

    160. Republicofscotland says:

      I admire the hope and enthusiasm these people display I really do, but I’m baffled that they can’t see the emperor, or in our case the empress has no clothes on. Is it blind faith that somehow something might come of it, and like a snowball rolling down a hill, it could gather pace and mass until it becomes unstoppable, I certainly hope so.

      However we know the betrayer and her party too well and we have been privy to some of their machinations over the last few years, some have been aimed at suppressing independence, others have been about suppressing notable indy bloggers, all the signs point to nothing major happening on the indyfront with the betrayer and her party in mind.

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20630133.believe-scotland-yes-campaigners-national-day-action-taking-place-today%2F

    161. Andy Ellis says:

      @Robert Hughes 10.00 am

      Yes , but as someone on that thread said ….

      “From her point of view it has went fabulously. Vogue magazine. Hobnobbing with royalty. An adoring fanbase. Celebrities and movie star selfies. Multiple extra-marital affairs. Tours of Italy/France/USA. TV chat shows. VIP tickets to big events. Face on buses. She’s had a ball!!”

      This is exactly what I’ve been thinking

      The self delusion is strong in that one though. As GhostofWings also noted on twitter, it’s the first time Sturgeon has actually come out with the TWAW line:

      “She says: “The vast majority of women are people like us, who were born women and are biological women, and a very small number who are trans women – who are women. When that question is asked, usually it’s an invitation to exclude the tiny number of women who are trans,” she says, her frustration clear as her delivery accelerates, “and I am not going to do anything to further exclude and stigmatise them.”

      Sturgeon lacks the basic self awareness to stop and wonder about the appropriateness of posing for vanity shots to accompany the fawning fluff piece from tame hack Libby Brooks in Jimmy Choo shoes, designer jewellery and outfits from Harvey Nichols.

    162. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott” 10.15 pm

      So fucking transparent, innit.

      Only to the tin foil hat wearing fraternity “Scott”. I’m sure there are some sock puppets in here, but it’s much more likely they’re the anonymous accounts spouting fringe nutterdom, sitting in their kecks in their Mammy’s back room eating Coco Pops from the box and wondering why they can’t get any.

      Unsurprisingly I see you chose not to answer merganser, doubtless on the entirely reasonable grounds that you lack the intellectual height for that particular ride.

    163. Mark Boyle says:

      @Robert Hughes

      The “multiple extra-marital affairs” claim from Paul on Twitter is risible, little more than wishful thinking she did a Boris.

      Yes, the marriage was for career reasons, but the only person Sturgeon can find any semblance of love for is herself.

    164. Colin the Keelie says:

      The legal fiction around Claim of Right is that the people of Scotland simply sacked King James VII for corruption by means of the law and constitution of Scotland. In England, the legal fiction is that James II abdicated and was lawfully replaced by William and Mary. The reality is revolutions took place in Scotland and England. Those asserting the Claim of Right and Bill of Rights had “haunders” from an army and navy from the Dutch Republic. It wasn’t the law that settled matters, it was the winners of the civil war that wrote the law. James did not recognise the Claim of Right or Bill of Rights and few relinquish power willingly: the Battle of the Boyne 1690 in Ireland and Jacobite uprisings in Scotland in 1689, 1715 and 1745 confirm this.

      Following the end of WWII there was the creation of the UN and its Charter in an attempt to limit or prevent the conditions that lead to conflict and war/s. The UK has ratified the Charter and also the UN Treaty called the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) both of which assert the right of self-determination. In its submission to the International Court of Justice the UK’s opinion supported the right of self-determination (by means of a unilateral declaration of independence) for the people of Kosovo. At the European Court of Human Rights the UK has argued that compliance with the UN Charter is the supreme law.

      UK Parliament is the supreme legislative chamber in the UK but, power exercised to deny or stymie democracy, to deny self-determination should be ruled an abuse of power contrary to Scots Law common law interpreted with the aid of The Claim of Right 1689, and the international treaties: the UN Charter, ICCPR and Articles of Union.

    165. Merganser says:

      Scott @ 10.07 and 11.08pm

      Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your assertion, which you have set out succinctly in the following four words:

      ‘So fuckin transparent, innit?’

      In replying to you, I may have to resort to the use of polite language, which I hope doesn’t cause offence.

      A bit of background: A relative (a great uncle) was a prominent member of the Irish independence movement. He was captured and sentenced to death. He escaped three times. He spent the last few years of his life in these islands, unknown to anyone except his family what his background was. I knew him as a quiet but passionate old man.

      His philosophy was that independence required two things: passion and ability, which don’t always go hand in hand.

      When I look at what Scotland has been reduced to I cannot but despair that what had both passion and ability under the leadership of Alex Salmond, has become a lost cause under the ‘leadership’ of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP. It is a tragedy, that won’t be put right until all the lies behind the Salmond affair are made public, so people can see what has been done to them.

      I don’t profess to know the answer to achieving independence. But I believe that I know what isn’t the answer, namely, to fall into the trap of trusting one word of what Sturgeon says.

      This site has kept the flame alive for me. People have passionate views, but they may not necessarily be right, even some of the time.

      You and Andy are like peas in a pod, with your passion. It matters not that the content is often rubbish from both of you, it matters that your passion keeps this site going and keeps the flame alive. It stimulates debate and ideas Captain Yossarian was always polite, but if everybody contributed at his level, Wings would have packed up long ago.

      So carry on your hammer and tongues act and make the sparks fly. If I can provoke you or Andy into keeping up the fight so much the better. And at least I still have the passion to do it.

      Sometimes things aren’t as transparent as they seem

    166. Colin the Keelie says:

      Stu Campbell, we need your fact-checking abilities.

      From the SNP’s submission to the Supreme Court:

      “The applicant is funded mainly from voluntary contributions”. I thought its main source of funding was now “Short Money” from the UK State.

      “With over 100,000 members”. Does the SNP still have over 100,000 members?

    167. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      13 August, 2022 at 11:32 am

      Only to the tin foil hat wearing fraternity “Scott”. I’m sure there are some sock puppets in here, but it’s much more likely they’re the anonymous accounts spouting fringe nutterdom

      Andy Ellis says:
      12 August, 2022 at 9:00 pm

      @merganser

      Why thanks. Expect “incoming” from the usual suspects. Doubtless you’ll be accused of being another of my (apparently numerous) sock puppet accounts. Conspiracy theorist will conspiracy theorise of course.

      Merganser says:
      12 August, 2022 at 10:04 pm

      Andy Ellis @ 9.00pm

      I don’t think there is much chance of me being regarded as one of your sock puppets in view of our completely different positions on plebiscitary elections, and the fact I have said you have been ‘had’ by Sturgeon over this issue, which I still think to be the case.

      I see no denial, only deflection.

      Narcs can’t help themselves when accused of that which is true – scenarios of what might be the true case, using counter-accusation without evidence

      Have a nice day.

    168. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      13 August, 2022 at 12:44 pm

      https://gordondangerfield.com/2022/08/12/why-single-sex-female-services-are-not-for-biological-males/

      You are the most alert reader of all of us alert readers. I have been waiting for a follow up from Gordon Dangerfield.
      Cheers
      .

    169. Robert Hughes says:

      Andy & Mark

      As far as the * multiple affairs * part goes , I neither know nor give a fck if that’s true .

      The essential point of that comment is accurate ie her tenure as FM has brought HER many benefits and – short of some damning revelations emerging , will no doubt facilitate her slotting into some extremely well paid * Globalist * nodding dog position

      She has the * right stuff * for the wrong people

    170. Ruby says:

      I wonder if Mark Boyle believes there is love involved in ‘extra marital affairs’?

      I don’t believe Sturgeon has affairs or any sex whatsoever.

      Sturgeon is a virgin.

      She doesn’t even know the difference between a man and a woman.

      That’s enough about her she is a complete bore. If I wanted to read about vacuous celebs I would choose Hello or one of these glossy celeb mags – at least the vacuous celeb in these mags are nice looking and they are not taking the piss out of voters.

    171. Merganser says:

      Scott @ 12.47 Andy ‘10.15

      ‘Good. use your aggressive feelings boys. Let the hate flow through you’.

      But try and channel it a bit more towards achieving independence if you can.

    172. Mark Boyle says:

      Robert Hughes says:
      13 August, 2022 at 1:07 pm

      As far as the * multiple affairs * part goes , I neither know nor give a fck if that’s true.

      I see what you did there … 😀

    173. Ruby says:

      Robert Hughes says:

      will no doubt facilitate her slotting into some extremely well paid * Globalist * nodding dog position

      After reading about Kezia Dugdale becoming a professor – my mind is boggling!

    174. Ruby says:

      Merganser says:
      13 August, 2022 at 1:19 pm

      Scott @ 12.47 Andy ‘10.15

      ‘Good. use your aggressive feelings boys. Let the hate flow through you’.

      But try and channel it a bit more towards achieving independence if you can.

      What are you doing Merganser? Are you looking to have those two banned for indulging in ‘fucking playground shit’?

    175. James che says:

      Was reading Salvo site and they were delighted with the response and enthusiasm from grass roots and inclusion,
      The suggestions put forward were excellent, except one.

      Digital ID cards,

      This is a globalist agenda, and one Boris and NS has have been trying to push forward on to all of Britain,

      This concept of digital ID cards has to be RESEACHED BY EVERYONE HERE so they know what is being proposed and the control from a government level it has on citizens, the purpose of introduction was first suggested in wef, and G meetings by the wealthy elite like Blair, Brown, Gates,etc.
      It has the future ability to ration food, travel, energy, water, finances in and out you’re bank.

      How on earth did this Globalist agenda sneak into a new beginning for Scotland.
      It is a Big NO from both of us, and we will withdraw our support on that issue alone,

    176. James che says:

      Was reading Salvo site and they were delighted with the response and enthusiasm from grass roots and inclusion,
      The suggestions put forward were excellent, except one.

      Digital ID cards,

      This is a globalist agenda, and one Boris and NS has have been trying to push forward on to all of Britain,

      This concept of digital ID cards has to be RESEACHED BY EVERYONE HERE so they know what is being proposed and the control from a government level it has on citizens, the purpose of introduction was first suggested in wef, and G meetings, the EU, by the wealthy elite like Blair, Brown, Gates,etc.
      It has the future ability to ration food, travel, energy, water, finances in and out you’re bank.

      How on earth did this Globalist agenda sneak into a new beginning for Scotland.
      It is a Big NO from both of us, and we will withdraw our support on that issue alone,

      Please research it in depth yourselves,

    177. Merganser says:

      Ruby@ 1.29

      As I’m sure you spotted, it’s a quote from Star Wars.

      I don’t want them banned; they have so much energy and passion, but it is a shame seeing it go to waste all the time. If only it could be harnessed somehow in furtherance of the cause. In a non violent way of course.

    178. Ruby says:

      (Spoiler: if having a GRC does turn a biological male into a “biological female” for the purposes of the Equality Act, then it is simply absurd for the Scottish Government to claim, as they do, that the Bill’s provisions allowing biological males to obtain a GRC by essentially self-identifying as female do not intrude into the reserved area of the Equality Act. Clearly, they do, and as such the Act, if passed, will be struck down by the courts as outwith the competence of the Scottish Parliament.)
      Gordon Dangerfield.

      Interesting!

    179. James che says:

      The gender identity issue is changing in sports i see,
      They are beginning to be banned from competing in women’s sports,
      Horaay for common sense at long last.

    180. Scott says:

      @ James Cheyne

      Have you a direct link to the piece about Digital ID cards on Salvo.scot?

    181. George Ferguson says:

      @Merganser 1:50pm
      Agree with the non violent way. Meanwhile we need a country that is worthy of Independence, with it’s public services largely intact. I oscillate between deliberate and sheer incompetence of the Scot Gov. Part of me cannot reconcile that it is deliberate. I think better of human nature. But..take Humzas cunning plan to ameliorate the SNHS Hospital rotas. Only ten days later junior hospital Doctors are voting with their feet. Not necessarily going to Australia etc but leaving medicine all together or taking non rota locum jobs. It’s a crisis but you won’t hear that on the Scottish Broadcast media. Perhaps we will when they are confronted with the reality of our hospital services. We as a country cannot afford Nicola to be in office much longer. It’s falling apart.

    182. James che says:

      Scott,
      I went into Salvo site, as we had joined,
      Perhaps some one on here will read this and be kind enough to supply a direct link for you, not to genned up on how the links go,
      We usually manually print things in for links, wish I could have been more help.
      Anyone here able to help Scott, it would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

    183. James che says:

      Scott,

      The link you have to that name you used for me is not accurate,
      I am using some one elses discarded I pad,

      All posts under james che is actually a female born and bred,
      I mentioned this a few years ago on this site,

      People seem to have forgotten or perhaps were not on this site a few years ago,

    184. Scott says:

      James che says:
      13 August, 2022 at 2:29 pm

      Scott,
      I went into Salvo site, as we had joined

      I’ve been on the site and can’t locate the article you refer to…can you at least signpost how you found it, beyond ‘I went into Salvo site…’?

    185. James che says:

      Scott if it is any help my last name is Gordon,

    186. James che says:

      Can any one provide the link for Scott.

    187. Scott says:

      James che says:
      13 August, 2022 at 2:36 pm

      Scott,

      The link you have to that name you used for me is not accurate,
      I am using some one elses discarded I pad,

      All posts under james che is actually a female born and bred,
      I mentioned this a few years ago on this site

      What?

    188. James che says:

      Scott,

      Just like I co not know how to provide you with a link, I dont know how to recalibrate the I pad I was given from a friend at work, to my own name,
      Sorry I am not to smart with computers, and being dyslexic every effort is has to be done over and over again to make some sort of sense,
      You may have noticed this in my past comments
      I gave up,

      So now every one is reminded that james che is was born and is still a female I am sure dorithy D and other females like Ruby on this site will understand why I stand up for female spaces and the wrongs against women pensioners, the Scottish governments appalling view on childrens safety. Etc,

    189. James che says:

      All females in Scotland should stand strong together and those with children in the education system should put their foot down and stop their children from being brainwashed with gender nonsense being taught to their kids, this damaging to your children mentally, it confuses them as to how they fit into society in the future much more than the average child would have been in the past,
      If my children were at school, I would be withdrawing them from that school that taught ideology,
      It breaks families and destructs the unity of society as to its altimate aims and goals,
      If will bring about fear of all men,wether they be white black or green, fathers , brothers, grand fathers and uncles,
      Disgendering will cause mothers and daughters and sons to row beyond normal teenage problems, it adds confusion as a extra problem, and may ruin a childs life permanently if they make a wrong decision so early on in tender years. Because they were educated to follow teachings of ideology.

    190. Merganser says:

      George Ferguson @ 2.28

      ‘We need a country that is worthy of independence’

      I think Scotland will always be worthy of independence, whatever its state for the time being, and it has been reduced to a dreadful state by the present Scottish Government as you point out.
      I agree wholeheartedly that progress towards recovery can only be made once Sturgeon and her followers have gone. Achieving independence whilst they are still in power is a nightmare prospect.
      I just hope Alex is back in it for the longer term and Sturgeon is exposed for the charlatan which she is, then the two objectives of independence and putting the country back on a level course have a chance of success

    191. Scott says:

      James che says:
      13 August, 2022 at 2:58 pm

      Just like I co not know how to provide you with a link, I dont know how to recalibrate the I pad I was given from a friend at work, to my own name,
      Sorry I am not to smart with computers, and being dyslexic every effort is has to be done over and over again to make some sort of sense,
      You may have noticed this in my past comments

      Yeah, syntax isn’t the main issue when it comes to making sense of your posts.

    192. James che says:

      Scott,
      Sorry if that was a bit of a shock, but a did mention it on here a few years ago,
      I had a hard up bringing and a tough schooling,
      Plenty of knocks in life to gain a good idea of how the world works, the good the bad and the corrupted.

      A equally balance of females and males in my family, means i think like a woman and fight like a man,
      I take no nonsense and no prisoners,
      And the independence of Scotland has been my priority for many years.

    193. George Ferguson says:

      @Merganser 3:28pm
      ‘Scotland will always be worthy of Independence ‘. As a principled Independence supporter I would agree with that and note the word principled. Perhaps I am closer to what is happening than most folk. Look up SNHS show website to determine number of vacancies in the SNHS. And we have a number of vacancies about to appear over the next couple of weeks. We won’t have a SNHS in short order. Is the fault of the Union?. Not on this occasion. This is a crisis made in Scotland from girders. Hence my dilemma of incompetence vs malevolence. If there is an Independence vote tomorrow I will vote Yes. But I cannot except that the people of Scotland wasted their public services on some nilhistic jolly by Nicola to get her rocks off.

    194. Republicofscotland says:

      The king in Scotland of winning VONC’s mainly due to the Greens John Swinney is copying his boos at Bute House and fingering pointing in the direction of Westminster for state Scotland’s in via the cost of living crisis.

      Swinney say we’re (Scots) facing tough choices, yes we are but they could’ve been mitigated a bit if he and his treacherous boss the betrayer had at least tried to get us out of this bucket of shit union, but no instead they put party before country and their agenda before that of the people of Scotland welfare.

      They’ve wasted millions of pounds of Scottish taxpayers money on building ferries and holding a flawed census a year late and sold of (Scotwind) good clean energy generating areas of our seas for a pittance, just a few examples of this now unionist party’s failings. Sturgeon and her SNP brood of troughers have done untold damage to the indy movement and are pushing their jurless trials and GRA, whilst a majority of Scots don’t want either.

      “JOHN Swinney has accused the UK government of holding the country to ransom over the cost of living crisis.

      The Deputy First Minister- who is covering the finance brief during Kate Forbes’s maternity cover – said he was facing tough choices because of Whitehall’s inaction.

      A crisis meeting between the Prime Minister, Chancellor Nadhm Zahawi, and the bosses of Britain’s energy companies on Thursday ended with no new measures being announced.

      During the summit, Boris Johnson made clear that it would be for his successor to make any significant fiscal intervention.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20625493.john-swinney-hits-uk-government-inaction-cost-living-crisis%2F

    195. Andy Ellis says:

      Yeah, syntax isn’t the main issue when it comes to making sense of your posts.

      That may be the first time I’ve agreed with “Scott”.

      The world turned upside down indeed. 🙂

    196. James che says:

      Scott,

      The only addition to our particular conversation is as follows,

      It does not matter if we are young, old, black, white or green, it coes notmatter that we co not use our own names or not,

      What matters is that this is a site that supports Scottish independence, and I would presume every one here is on this site is aiming to do just that,
      Every one here has a good idea of those on here trying to cause problems or opposing the independence movement at every new turn,

      If you are here for the aim of independence of Scotland, sooner rather than later, does it matter that the person standing beside you shoulder to shoulder may be female, as long as they are on your side.

      In fact we need more females to wake up, to be encouraged, to bring a new life to Scotland,

    197. James che says:

      Andy,
      If you have been on this site for a long time, that should not have turned the world upside down, at all.
      For i mentioned it here ( on this site) a long time ago, you must either be a relative newbee, or you have made presumptions.

    198. Merganser says:

      George Ferguson @ 3.51

      It’s tragic what she has done. And not just to the health service.

      Her latest wheeze is to accuse Alex of a ‘full frontal’ assault on her to get her out of office. The brass neck of the woman defies belief. After what she tried to do to Alex! She is desperate to halt the rise of Alba, which is leading the independence debate now.

      Hopefully she has started a ball rolling which will result in Alex being vindicated when all the facts become public knowledge

    199. Andy Ellis says:

      @merganser 11.55 am

      I don’t profess to know the answer to achieving independence. But I believe that I know what isn’t the answer, namely, to fall into the trap of trusting one word of what Sturgeon says.

      I certainly don’t trust Sturgeon or what is laughably known as the SNP’s leadership. The issue moving forward is that the SNP are still the predominant party in the independence movement. I certainly think the movement as a whole shouldn’t be the creature of the SNP, but until and unless the SNP is either replaced, or de-toxified by the removal of the Sturgeonite virus it has become infected with, the party is still the engine of the movement, however badly it is misfiring.

      Todays Guardian puff piece by Brooks demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that Sturgeon is a show horse, not a work horse as our American cousins say. You’re right that both the passion and the ability are lacking: it’s all about appearance, how things look. Sturgeon’s SNP is a selfie in the form of an organisation.

      Her comments about “life after politics” are telling. Perhaps even someone as vapid as Sturgeon has realised that it will soon be “put up or shut up” time? If she can’t deliver a “legal gold standard S30 sanctioned referendum” the scales will fall from the eyes of a lot of people who have bought in to her snake oil pitch until now. They’ve forgiven her inaction, her misogyny and obeisance before the candy floss haired Twitler youth and TRA extremists, because she guaranteed them a referendum.

      Kirk Torrance is right:

      “A staunch lesson for politicians everywhere; belligerence evaporates enthusiasm.

      A sorrowful legacy for someone I used to greatly admire; who’s now just a petulant ninny.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/KirkJTorrance/status/1558034702988189698

      Nicola’s number will soon be up. We have to plan for what happens afterwards. That might be sooner than we think, or it might not be for a few years. Hopefully the movement can rediscover both the passion and the ability by then…?

    200. George Ferguson says:

      @Merganser 4:18pm
      You are pushing against an open door with regards to Alex Salmond. I have always respected his political ability. A concern of mine is high achievers like the Doctors and others, I was talking about in public service, don’t want to enter politics. We are left with people that haven’t achieved anything before politics with a very limited perspective of life and little in the way of solving complex problems. But back to the Doctors a patient presents with symptoms of an over enlarged prostate gland but you can’t treat him because he has identified as a woman and doesn’t have a prostate gland. No wonder they are leaving in their droves. Impossible job.

    201. James che says:

      Republicofscotland,

      Not only did swinney and pals in the snp have a fistful of mandates, but they also missed an open goal over Brexit,
      Over the question of the treaty which they prevented some from attempting through the court,
      But the amount of excuses for “wait an see”, carrot dangling,
      There is missing fund money,
      The list goes on and on,

      The devolved government is not a Scottish government, and the Scottish people tend to be a bit confused over this issue, any one that enters the Scottish parliament swears an oath to the crown, the british parliament falsely claims it is sovereign, and therefore places itself above monarchy and crown,
      So in actual fact any one entering the devolved Scottish parliament is swearing an oath to ( englands ) parliament in reality.

      The devolved Scottish parliament is sworn an oath to follow all laws and statues of Englands british parliament,

      This is why the Scottish government/ NS run to to supreme court to beg for the Scottish devolved government to have powers released from tony Blairs supreme court,

      I am not sure how we go forward trying to use the Scottish/ English devolved government as an asset rather than a hinderance while its boss is the British/ english government.

    202. Scott says:

      I think FM Sturgeon has eyes on a seat in HoL – but only in the name of breaking down barriers for the ‘common good’, natch.

      She’s also a malignant narcissist, much like her very close personal friend Baroness Sossidges.

      If she steps down as leader of SNP, the attention and elevated status she constantly seeks won’t present by itself.

      And you can tell her I said that…

    203. Republicofscotland says:

      “I am not sure how we go forward trying to use the Scottish/ English devolved government as an asset rather than a hinderance while its boss is the British/ english government.”

      James Che.

      Nothing will happen until the betrayer is booted out of Bute House, I have great respect for Julian Assange and Wikileaks in general, but the betrayer when she’s not been re-elected as FM will need to be dragged kicking and screaming out of Bute House in a similar fashion to that of Assange from the Ecuadorian embassy for she’ll try and hold on and do as much damage to Scotland as possible.

      However once she’s been evicted (the sooner the better) and we somehow manage to install a strong indy minded FM into Bute House, this is vital for without the right person at the helm we won’t move one inch forward on the indyfront, I can’t stress the importance of this enough, its the key to Scotland’s success.

      Such as recalling our MPs back to Holyrood and along with our MSPs they and the MPs can then vote on whether or not to hold an indyref, if its a yes (majority) we can then organise an indyref by ourselves for ourselves, and hopefully set a residency time period.

      Westminster is denying Scots the right to choose whether to stay or leave this fetid union, Westminster is denying Scots their democratic right. So we will bypass Westminster if the MPs and MSPs vote yes (majority) and go straight to the indyref, but we need Sturgeon out and the right person in for this to happen.

    204. Mark Boyle says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      13 August, 2022 at 4:01 pm

      Yeah, syntax isn’t the main issue when it comes to making sense of your posts.

      That may be the first time I’ve agreed with “Scott”.

      The world turned upside down indeed. ?

      That’s their story this week and I’d take it with the same bucket of salt I’d take any of their claims. This is someone adding sauce and a flake to their online persona. Saw it happen a thousand times.

      As for your stalker clown, funny how he “appears” when a certain other appears, and vanishes the same time they do …

    205. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      13 August, 2022 at 5:20 pm

      That’s their story this week and I’d take it with the same bucket of salt I’d take any of their claims. This is someone adding sauce and a flake to their online persona. Saw it happen a thousand times.

      As for your stalker clown, funny how he “appears” when a certain other appears, and vanishes the same time they do …

      Paranoid much?

    206. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      13 August, 2022 at 3:38 pm
      Yeah, syntax isn’t the main issue when it comes to making sense of your posts.

      You now Ellis’s stooge? Feeding him all his best lines! </b

    207. Merganser says:

      Andy Ellis @ 4.22

      ‘A petulant ninny’

      But such a dangerous one to be ‘leading the country’, as she is for ever boasting about.

      I am curious to know what has caused this latest outburst from her.

      Is it to pre-empt something which is about to break out?

      Is it because Alba seems to be making the running over independence and is getting more publicity?

      Is it an attempt to get Alex to take the bait – to tee him up as the fall guy when all her cunning plans turn to rat?

      Can’t wait to find out what has rattled her cage

    208. Ruby says:

      Why would it matter if Sturgeon cannot deliver a “legal gold standard S30 sanctioned referendum” when so many people are happy with her ‘de facto referendum’?

    209. Ruby says:

      What has rattled Sturgeon?

      Could be a number of things

      Police investigations into
      missing funds
      leak to Daily Mail
      perjury in Alex Salmond trial
      coming to a head

      Further revelations re Balmoral incident.
      The prospect of her precious GRA/self id bill being struck down by the courts.

      The menopause
      low ticket sale for her Fringe Show.

      I think there is another police investigation pending but I’ve forgotten
      These investigations take so long it’s easy to forget.

    210. moixx says:

      From previous thread, ‘Cracking the Code’, 3 Aug at 11.13pm:

      msdidi says:

      “This email came from FOR WOMEN SCOTLAND today

      Consultation on review of Violence Against Women and Girls Services

      I know we are probably all suffering from consultation fatigue but this one is really important and will take just a couple of minutes to do. As you can see from the first question the term “woman” has been redefined to include any man who declares himself to be a woman. After our judicial review win this just should not be happening!

      Please respond in the box under question one that their definition of woman is unlawful and it should be changed to the biological definition “a female of any age” as defined in the Equality Act. As per the decision in For Women Scotland v LA and Scottish Ministers, “gender reassignment” is a separate protected characteristic from “sex” and the two should not be confused or conflated. The court ruled that provisions in favour of women must, by definition, exclude those who are biologically male, and that the Scottish Government cannot amend the definition of “woman”.

      Please also add a couple of short sentences on why it is important to you that women’s services remain single-sex. For example, many women will opt to self-exclude themselves if there are male staff or service-users (regardless of how they identify), or worry if they can get help at all if a service has taken such an ideological stance, particularly if they have suffered abuse from a man who identifies as a woman. Some women (who may not identify as such) will be excluded entirely.

      You don’t have to answer the rest of the questions if you don’t want to and you can tick the box for your response to be published anonymously, or not published at all, if you prefer.

      Our response can be seen here. https://forwomen.scot/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/VAWG-review-FWS-submission-01Aug2022.pdf

      Closing date for submissions is 15 August 2022.
      https://consult.gov.scot/violence-against-women-team/violence-against-women-and-girls-services/consultation/subpage.2016-07-07.1474135251/

      I completed Q1 as asked and then said that as the definition of woman was unlawful the consultation was void and needed to be changed before any more of the questions could be answered.”
      _______________________________________

      If you’re looking in msdidi, thanks for highlighting this consultation – have responded along the same lines. Closing date is 15 August if anyone wants to respond.

    211. Republicofscotland says:

      More soundbites and rhetoric from the betrayer of Scots, her and her party’s actions on independence tell a different story.

      “SCOTLAND is about to “call a day” to “being ignored by Tory prime minsters”, Nicola Sturgeon has said.”

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.scot%2Fnews%2F20638122.scotland-call-day-uk-nicola-sturgeon-says-edinburgh-fringe%2F

    212. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Republicofscotland –

      Thanks for the link but I won’t even bother reading it, just more shite that’s sure to get the blood pressure going. But also more proof for the WGDers and their ilk that they’ve been sold a pup.

      Another thing I’m avoiding reading right now is the ending to The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. I started it, ooofft, about 25 years ago, and gave up. Now, nearing the end, I can remember why.

      Hard to remember a book with such a heavy sense of foreboding. Harder still to imagine what life must’ve been like back then, even though it’s little more than a Prince Philip lifetime ago. Noonan didn’t live to see the work published and many of the younger characters he described in the semi-autobiographical work would’ve been sent off to die in the Great War. But what’s really nauseating about it are the parallels one could draw with what’s happening right now.

      So-called ‘right-wing’ thinkers like Jordan Peterson like to use the ‘how are you doing?’ trick to derail any overtly socialistic criticism of the status quo – ‘Are you better off than your parents and grandparents were?’ is a difficult one to answer because, superficially at least, it feels as if we are. Most of us aren’t starving and our children don’t have to clean chimneys. But how many of us are a month or less away from genuine hardship? How many jobs are genuinely safe? How many of us have a decent amount stashed away for emergencies (like £4,000 gas/leccy bills) or a secure pension pot? Is there anyone who can say hand on heart that there’s no danger that they or folk they know will never ever have to resort to charity to survive? How many of us can afford to eat real food which isn’t industrially processed shite? (which damages us so badly that we need medical treatment from people who get rich flogging ‘treatments’ that just keep us ill? Dead folk don’t generate a steady stream of profit.)

      Whatever ‘necessaries’ of life we enjoy have been made possible by the concerted efforts of all the political activists who came before us. Now, again, the unions are being demonised as ‘the enemy within’. The energy companies are colluding to extract impossible amounts of cash from their ‘customers’ while inflating their own profits and bonuses to unprecedented heights, and a ‘necessary’ war is ensuring that robber barons on both sides of the Atlantic get their slice. It’s just business as usual for the same old faces and families who were screwing us a century ago and the shareholders are quietly cock-a-hoop.

      I don’t know if Noonan (Robert Tressell) could see the war coming. With a few chapters left it still hasn’t been mentioned but the overarching sense of doom suggests that he knew something cataclysmic was coming down the line.

      Right now, we have all the ingredients in place for a similar catastrophe and only the willingly ignorant or hopelessly stupid can’t see it. By comparison, the fate of Sturgeon and/or the SNP is nothing more than an unpleasant and irrelevant sideshow.

    213. John Main says:

      @Dan 12 August 9:27

      Sorry for late reply, been busy.

      No quibbles with your stats, Dan, but so what.

      If you are trying to tell me that in Day 1 of Indy, all of the resources you list will be divvied up between us Scots, then that’s great news. But before I break out the half-bottle of Bells, I will need to see the manifesto promises, and the working behind those promises, that will back up your assertion.

      Mean time, here’s what I think. Every square foot of Scotland, every acre of the Scottish subsea continental shelf, every fishing quota,, every crop growing, every forest, every mineral right, every wind turbine, building, factory, road, railway, airport, every hydro scheme, yadda, yadda already belongs to some individual, company, trust, charity, or sovereign government. Sold in many cases, irony of irony, by contracts under Scots law.

      And on Days 1, 10, 100, etc. That will not change, unless the new iScotland decides to 1) repatriate ownership, and 2) divvi up ownership between us Scots. That can happen, as I see it, in one of 2 ways:

      1) Nationalisation and redistribution without compensation. Could work, if we ignore that Scotland will be an international pariah for a generation.

      2) Purchase of assets at current market price. Will work, and will likely take a generation to budget for and raise the cash for. Currency we will use? Not yet worked out.

      So there you have it Dan. All those Scottish resources you list are already sold. You need to credibly demonstrate how ownership and the profits derived from ownership will find their way into the bank accounts of ordinary Scots post Indy.

      Please don’t reply “have faith” again.

    214. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 4:22

      Sure St. Nic’s on the way out, but so are most elected politicians who presided over the Covid era, plus a few non-elected ones as well.

      It’s likely to be no more than the universal reaction of people who have seen their future wrecked, not to mention the futures of their kids, over something that can be fairly categorised as a severe flu.

      So I wouldn’t read too much into it.

    215. PacMan says:

      Ruby says: 13 August, 2022 at 5:59 pm

      What has rattled Sturgeon?

      shorturl.at/motV1

    216. Scott says:

      John Main is incapable of imagining change, or so it would seem.

      TUPE is one thing, being beholden to onerous contracts awarded to corporations by another entity is another.

      The whole point of independence is that our Government won’t need to consider the needs of those in E/W/NI when prioritising the needs of the nation and its citizens.

      Why anyone would think that the rampant corruption and corporate fascism that pervades through the so-called Anglosphere Governments, including the 4 within the UK, is preferable to ‘not that’?

      The only common good he and his ilk are interested in is that contained within their ivory towers.

    217. Andy Ellis says:

      @merganser 5.35 pm

      It’s hard to say what the SNP’s private research and polling might be telling them. It struck me at the event last Saturday in Edinburgh that Alba seem to be almost bending over themselves not to “go negative”: Tasmina talked about the upcoming referendum in October 2023, both she and Alex emphasised the need for a joint campaign and platform. It’s possible they have made a decision to give the SNP enough rope to hang themselves.

      When the wheels come off Sturgeon’s #indyref2 Gold Standard S30 vote, I suspect there will be a whole lot of rattling in that cage.

    218. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      13 August, 2022 at 7:33 pm

      Another thing I’m avoiding reading right now is the ending to The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. I started it, ooofft, about 25 years ago, and gave up. Now, nearing the end, I can remember why.

      Hard to remember a book with such a heavy sense of foreboding. Harder still to imagine what life must’ve been like back then, even though it’s little more than a Prince Philip lifetime ago. Noonan didn’t live to see the work published and many of the younger characters he described in the semi-autobiographical work would’ve been sent off to die in the Great War. But what’s really nauseating about it are the parallels one could draw with what’s happening right now.

      Persist with it, because the big twist is right at the end – and he was right in his analysis. Alas, “Animal Farm” in turn predicted also what would come next.

      Yes, it is a very harrowing book. Strangely enough, the part I found most upsetting was when Crass left the pub The Cricketer’s Arms happy just because he’d had a couple of pints, played a game of hoops or shove ha’penny or whatever and heard a tune on the polyphone (what they had in the days before dukeboxes or even gramophones – and where Polydor first made their fortune).

      He’s the most utterly dislikable character in the book: a loudmouthed zero brained know-it-all happy to be stuck in the same existence rut forever – the sort encountered in every workplace since the dawn of time – but the other side is he’s not asking for MUCH in life – same as the rest of them, just security of hearth, home, food on the table and the most minor of pleasures. Yet the system they’re all in resent them and patronises their “wastefulness” at every turn – as Owen says, treated as little more than Beasts Of Burden.

      Crass is a hair’s breath away from what happiness he has being ripped away from him – same as the rest- one accident, one massive economic downturn, and he’s trying to bluff himself it won’t happen to him, he’ll always manage to wriggle out of the fires of ruin somehow (even if at the expense of his “mates”) by licking the right boots. Again, he’s a character who we all know of, and long after we’re all dead and gone future generations will know of in their own lives only too well.

      What is so brilliant about the book is how it demonstrates that in the end, everybody loses from the system of unfettered capitalism by Darwinian principles. Even the fat cats with all the money, because at the end of the day the system they think is so wonderful means they still get ripped off for what little they pay for – as the painters would have it, “slobbered up” to meet a deadline rather than done properly.

      Anyway, I’m rambling – whatever you do, persevere, and for anyone else that has never read this masterpiece:

      https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3608/3608-h/3608-h.htm#chap16

    219. Dan says:

      @ John Main

      The whole point of Scotland returning to self-governing status is to regain all the major powers that influence fiscal policy that are currently reserved to Westminster.
      With these powers under Scottish control it would allow us to deviate from way the UK government currently (badly) runs things.

      It doesn’t necessarily mean clawing back ownership of everything, it could just be the implementation of more appropriate licensing and taxation policies are put in place that benefit the wider population rather than private or corporate interests.
      Crazy wild idea here, maybe we could jist take a swatch and emulate how other reasonably run countries operate…

      Of course there are other options to consider too, such as the Annual Ground Rent concept.

    220. George Ferguson says:

      @Andy Ellis 9:10pm
      We don’t have the luxury of waiting on Alex or Tasmina. The wheels are falling off our public services now. So why has Parliament not be recalled by the Presiding Officer?. There is no wriggle room left. I actually understated the position in my earlier posts. We are in a crisis now. And that will only take effect when the public realise that. Parents are clever there using the NHS 24 service to get A and E access. And which parent wouldn’t?. A pity there will soon be no Doctors left to meet them. A cleaner perhaps? We will soon be on our own. Hyperbole? Wait and see.

    221. Scott says:

      “Anyway, I’m rambling – whatever you do, persevere, and for anyone else that has never read this masterpiece:” – Boyle

      apologies for the spoilers?

      (And it’s ‘jukebox’)

    222. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Mark Boyle (9.33) –

      Thanks for not giving the end away!

      😉

    223. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 7.33: I think you might have hit on something with your sense of foreboding. TRTP was a favourite of an old CP pal who used it as a perennial critique of capitalism and of another who was a union activist and always stressed the importance of incremental improvement in pay and conditions of the workers or as you said, “Whatever ‘necessaries’ of life we enjoy have been made possible by the concerted efforts of all the political activists who came before us. Now, again, the unions are being demonised as ‘the enemy within’”

      Not a very exciting or storm-the-barricades approach but I’ve known a few Trots and their star usually burns out as they move into poacher-turned-gamekeeper positions. Sadly, some turned out to be agents provocateurs but that is rarely a surprise.

      As for Mr Peterson, a more humourless obsessive I think I have rarely encountered (even on these pages) so I always avoid any threat of intellectual contagion from him by giving up after a few minutes, after misguidedly given him another chance.

      We’re approaching a winter whose dire effects on ordinary people The Leaderene couldn’t really give a flying fruit bat about while she gets her pronouns in order and desperately avoids any “invalid” questions like, “What is a woman?” while blaming everything on WM.

      An old Commie would say a sudden revolutionary change can arise when you are least expecting it. I doubt intellectual lightweights like Nikla and her Wokies would be equipped for such a thing in any case. Economic desperation this winter may be the catalyst for big trouble for the plutocrat Establishment.

      Who knows where all this may lead?

    224. Confused says:

      I think “Ragged KILTED Philanthropists” is the open goal you posters missed there – giving it all away, before they’ve even had it.

      – anyways, story of the day, for me, is SADOWITZ GETTING BANNED because someone found his show “offensive”.

      – there are no comparisons to this, for this is the comparison.

      – HOW RIDICULOUS WAS IT – IT WAS AS RIDICULOUS AS … (sadowitz banned for offence)

      I like to think that unbanned, he would be right away, making jokes about Salman Rushdie, Islam, JK Rowling and trannies …

      Shame about Rushdie getting stabbed though – pretentious over-rated novelists are precious to us all – but just think, if even one of these literary bookish liberals had the moral decency to be carrying a firearm, the attacker could have been taken out very quickly; he would not have gotten 15 blows in, one or two at most – might have saved his eye, or the liver problems.

      Guns save lives and if you don’t have any, try this; this guy gets it

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5KvJQZ1xLI

      subscribe to the channel

      also shows why the anonymous handle can be a useful thing if you want to make challenging points about islam

      being a STUPEFIED CHRISTIAN HERESY, designed for the LEFT SIDE of the bell curve, invented by an opportunist LOSER SOCIOPATH who decided that “forming your own religion” was his last chance, a precursor of L Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith; that it is INTRINSICALLY VIOLENT having POLYGAMY and SLAVERY embedded within it … and yet the West supports the craziest faction of all, that created by Wahhab, who was the John Knox of Islam, and reckoned it had all “gone soft”.

      If it weren’t for a FEW CRUCIAL BATTLES, there would be no men on the moon, flight, phones or computers, we would be flyting at each other in the mosque, by candle light. Religion is the “operating system” of a society, and you DON’T WANT ISLAM IN THE KERNEL; also it is incompatible with western enlightenment ideas and is TOTALITARIAN, you get one thing – church, state, courts, executive. With muslims, EVEN BUDDHISTS GET VIOLENT, which is saying something.

      – as I was saying all this to my newsagent, he threw me out. Freedom of speech is not one of their values either.

      It’s not all their fault though, enter the British-fucking-Empire, Lawrence of Arabia and all that shite – doing deals with barbarians simply to handle the turks, thus handing the world’s greatest prize to violent nutcases, the worst of the lot.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLXB55ATiDA

      someone tracked down that turkish fella and he says that bumming TE Lawrence was totally made up. Public school types, what are they like.

      “performative art/lit crit” is not always wrong cf VALERIE SOLANAS who shot andy warhol, but her aim was shite. Feminist icon, no less. Also believed in trannyism, to eradicate all men by turning them into “women”.

      Sadowitz should go on the counter-offensive, I believe the guy is rumoured to be jewish, (how could one tell?) and if he says the magic word “anti semitism”, it could all go away. Or just go tranny “herself”.

    225. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Just happened.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/TheGhostOfWings

      Who or what caused it this time? The gender loonies. Nikla’s cabal.
      Kezia’s jealousy complex.

    226. Breeks says:

      PacMan says:
      13 August, 2022 at 8:00 pm
      Ruby says: 13 August, 2022 at 5:59 pm

      What has rattled Sturgeon?

      shorturl.at/motV1

      Fear of empty seats perhaps…

      Anxiety about the size of some pennies that are about to drop…

      And for someone who refuses to speak to Alex Salmond, strange but no surprise that she can’t help herself from talking about him.

      I hope she is rattled and contemplating getting out of politics, but I doubt it. Sadly for Scotland, our 24 carat narcissist in resistance will only be removed kicking and screaming once she’s finished razing the SNP to the ground.

      Whenever it happens, it’ll be a good day for Scotland when we finally see the back of her. Good riddance.

    227. Mark Boyle says:

      Graf Midgehunter says:
      14 August, 2022 at 1:41 am

      Just happened.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/TheGhostOfWings

      Who or what caused it this time? The gender loonies. Nikla’s cabal. Kezia’s jealousy complex.

      My guess is that it was Stu’s unbelievably stupid “You’ve never had sex” jibe reply to some trans-rights big mouth’s long winded post about genitalia. These fkkers look for people to reply to them so they can get ideological opponents banned for infractions.

      Plus you have those who hate Stu “cos Nicola says so” sycophants. There was one wee prick on a certain Scottish website boasting he’d got Stu banned a while back, posting screenshots of his handiwork to prove it and looking for praise.

    228. Breeks says:

      https://archive.ph/Td2me

      Good heavens. That Evans creature was given compensation.

      She should have been given the sack, and possibly a summons.

    229. holymacmoses says:

      Breeks says:
      14 August, 2022 at 8:29 am
      https://archive.ph/Td2me

      Good heavens. That Evans creature was given compensation.

      ‘Compensation’ can just mean money for services rendered

    230. holymacmoses says:

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/13/nicola-sturgeon-feminism-independence-life-after-politics?CMP=twt_b-gdnsaturday

      This piece in the Guardian is the most remarkable set of lies.
      Sturgeon must be rattled if she’s being so openly disingenuous:
      “There was a period where I was trying to lead the country through a global pandemic, and at the same time trying to withstand a full-frontal assault by my predecessor to bring me down,” she says, as though she still finds it hard to compute…

      …Coming through it “has shown me that I’m a bit more resilient than I thought”, she reflects; “more confident in my own skin”. “Having to deal with Covid also allowed me – even given the toxic horribleness of the Salmond stuff – to put it into perspective in a way that I probably wouldn’t have been able to do had it been on its own without that backdrop.”

      That “toxic horribleness” began when details of sexual harassment complaints made against the former first minister by two female civil servants were leaked to the Daily Record in August 2018. Salmond immediately launched a court challenge and won a significant legal victory against the Scottish government after the civil service admitted its internal investigation had been mishandled.

      But then, in a development that shocked the Holyrood establishment – including Sturgeon – Salmond was charged with multiple criminal counts of sexual assault, which included the two original complaints. He was acquitted of all charges at the high court in Edinburgh in 2020, but by then his sense of betrayal had a ferocity that those close to Sturgeon say she was not prepared for.

      The one thing that rings true is thaat she said she wasn’t ‘prepared for’ any repurcussions. I supsect that they thought they’d got it sewn up with so many charges put against Mr Salmond’s name.
      Thank goodness he had a jury.

    231. Dorothy Devine says:

      Holymacmoses, read it in utter disgust . I am hoping that some are getting the heebie jeebies and the truth is about to surface – how else can one explain that piece of utter ordure.

    232. Ruby says:

      “There was a period where I was trying to lead the country through a global pandemic, and at the same time trying to withstand a full-frontal assault by my predecessor to bring me down,”

      I missed that! I thought Salmond was extremely quiet.

      The question is when did her paranoia start?

      Could it have been before Alex Salmond was charged?

    233. John Main says:

      @Dan 9:36

      You must know that the “major power that influences fiscal policy” is having your own currency. You must know that setting your own interest rates, issuing your own government bonds, printing your own billions of QE, etc. allows a sovereign government to tailor the prices of its exports competitively, limit imports so as to encourage home-grown industry and services, etc.

      So what currency will iScotland use? Not looking for YOUR answer. Looking for the SNP answer and the Alba answer. Hard to imagine they could be different, but you never know. Inconceivable that there can be any doubts about this after the decades that the Indy movement has had to get this sorted.

      Scott reckons I don’t have the capacity to imagine an iScotland. Nonsense, of course, but the issue right now is that in my imagination, I see an iScotland run by the same people who can’t build a ferry, stop illegal drug deaths, imagine a fair price for an infinite, renewable, clean energy stream, or tell anybody what a woman is. To add insult to injury, they can’t even tell anybody the answer to just about the most fundamental question of all – what currency will they have in their pockets.

      FFS, there’s only 4 possibilities: £, $, €, or a new Scottish currency.

      So, once again, on behalf of the 50% of the Scottish electorate who don’t trust their personal financial security to “faith”. Vote Yes for Indy – sure, but first tell me the currency my hard-earned worldly wealth will end up in.

    234. Breastplate says:

      Surely,
      Poor Nicola deserves a sainthood?
      The absolute horrors she’s had to withstand, where would we be without her?

      Independent, is my guess.

    235. Andy Ellis says:

      @Tinto Chiel
      10.24 pm

      An old Commie would say a sudden revolutionary change can arise when you are least expecting it. I doubt intellectual lightweights like Nikla and her Wokies would be equipped for such a thing in any case. Economic desperation this winter may be the catalyst for big trouble for the plutocrat Establishment.

      Who knows where all this may lead?

      None of us can be certain where “all this” may lead I suppose, and that’s the frightening thing. It may lead nowhere much, with things just bimbling along as they are and have been for the past few years, things will be bad for many, fine for some and great for fewer still, but there won’t be any step change, still less revolution.

      Conversely perhaps things will get so bad that there will be a sea change, and ordinary folks in Scotland – even if not elsewhere – will rise up in righteous rage at how things are to build the Better Nation we thought was in our grasp in 2014.

      Maybe it will be neither of these things. I confess to being scunnered about where we start from, or suggesting how we reach our new destination. The work Common Weal is doing looks like the best option to me: it certainly has some depth, as well as the passion lacking in the SNP’s dreary grey suited managerialism and attachment to the cosy bromides of the Growth Commission.

      Turning Common Weal’s ideas in to the realistic platform for the movement as a whole, still less seeing them implemented is a different thing I suppose? We can but hope….

    236. John Main says:

      Classic Sturgeon quote:

      “It’s about men’s attitudes towards women”

      Just as well Libby was prepared to let that one go without comment. I guess that’s why she was favoured with the interview in the first place.

      Still, to prove Scott wrong (again), just imagine what a competent and unbiased interviewer could have done with that quote, if she seized the ring pull on that can of worms and yanked it with all her might.

    237. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @John Main (9.38) –

      ‘Vote Yes for Indy – sure, but first tell me the currency my hard-earned worldly wealth will end up in.’

      We use the pound just as we did before England started using it too.

      If they want to continue to use it post-independence, that’s for them to decide.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Scots

    238. Breastplate says:

      John Main,
      Nothing can be guaranteed in the future of an independent Scotland.
      Nothing can be guaranteed in the future of a Scotland tethered to the biggest parasite the world has ever known.

      The predictions of an economic future are merely guesses.
      Some guesses will be right, most will be wrong, that’s why they are constantly changing their predictions.

      As I’ve said before and you seem to half agree, it’s not what resources we have as a country that is most important but who makes the decisions about those resources.

      Who makes the decisions is the priority, everything else is secondary.

      There are some people susceptible to a reasonable debate about possible future outcomes and there are many who simply are not.

      No matter how logical one’s future predictions are for Scotland, the unreasonable among us will cling ever more tightly to the comfort blanket of the British flag.
      It’s the Elephants’ Graveyard where sense goes to die.

    239. Ruby says:

      Lots happening today.

      The Scottish comedian Jerry Sadowitz has had his Edinburgh fringe show cancelled by the venue after complaints from staff and audience members.

      It seems it’s all too easy to have things cancelled.

      Not sure exactly why he was cancelled The Guardian says

      It was claimed that he had used a racist term and exposed his penis to an audience member.

      I’m presuming this means he exposed himself to one person. If that is the case then surely this is a police matter equally so the use of a racist term.

      Were the police called?

      Shouldn’t the venue wait until the police have investigated? The audience member maybe lying?

      It would be a whole different story if he were nude and the whole audience saw his penis. That would be nudity & not indecent exposure.

      Anyone remember the musical Hair?

    240. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Never thought I’d ever post a link to anything by ‘Windswept and Interesting’ Neil Oliver, but hey-ho, so it goes…

      twitter.com/suzseddon/status/1558575474275647488

    241. Dorothy Devine says:

      Sorry Ian , can’t take the earnest seedy Sant Claus at all.

    242. Robert Hughes says:

      re that vomit-inducing latest piece of Sturgeon reality-denial ….

      I didn’t read the interview , I simply can’t stand to read or hear another word from her . I couldn’t avoid seeing the image of her at the top of the article though.It’s as superficially glossy , * enhanced * and unreal as she in fact is : like the yawning chasm of her public persona and her actual character as exposed in that video of her Stu posted a few weeks ago when she was caught off-guard by some inoffensive journalist and her * how dare you ask me an unscripted question * haughty arrogance became visible to anyone with the odd couple of brain cells

      ” Is this the real life , is this just fantasy ? ” On Planet Sturgeon the question is meaningless . There is no real life . In fact , as Getrude Stein said – of her hometown but can equally apply to NS ….” there is no there there ”

      I have seen some quotes from the * interview * eg Studio Press Release posted here and elsewhere ; like others , my gob was severely smacked by the * full frontal attack by a terribly horrible unspeakably ghastly possibly most evil MAN ever when I was giving my daily Floor Show
      Oops …….saving the country from an apocalyptic plague * bizarre warping of reality ( again there’s that real life / just fantasy dysfunction ) .Still trying to extract maximum glory from Covid .The virus that just keeps giving eh ? Care Homes . What about them ? Wiznae me ; it wiz Alex Salmond whit did it

      From other comments on the article people think the Bute Hoose Belladonna ( DEADLY Nightshade indeed ) is turning her thought ( singular ) to Post -Holyrood/Scotland/Petty Mortal Concerns life . If so ….THANK F..K is all I can say . What a massive relief it will be to see the back of her – and her * camp * followers . The Independence Movement might be able to breathe again and attempt to repair the damage and heal the wounds wrought by the almost 8 years of her wasted/wasting tenure

    243. Breastplate says:

      IanB,
      Yes, Neil Oliver admits he was a “gullible chump” and that his thinking has changed these last few years regarding the dear old Establishment.

      If he’s not pro independence now, it doesn’t seem like he’s too far off as it seems that he’s for decentralisation of authority, to what extent is still to be seen.

    244. Ruby says:

      If Jerry Sadowitz got cancelled because he showed his penis to the audience then all life drawing classes would have to be cancelled.

      I’m not quite sure what the term ‘got his dick out’ means but I can assure you that in life drawing classes the ‘dick is out’ the model is nude.

      If a show is cancelled because the audience sees a dick then what is going to happen re lady dick in changing rooms.

      Scotland has gone absolutely mad!

      “Life drawing model arrested for public nudity & class cancelled”

      Absolutely yonks ago when I was doing life drawing the tutor brought in a model who was ‘transitioning’ or something. This model had breasts & a penis.

      Got a feeling this particular model would be safe not just in the life drawing class but also if he/she were to take his ‘life drawing act’ to the Pleasance.

    245. Ruby says:

      What is missing from the Neil Oliver piece is what we should do?

      What should we do Neil?

    246. Breastplate says:

      Ruby,
      I think that he’s asking people to wake up.

      Pretty much the same thing that everyone here is asking, of course, we all have our own pet subjects, nevertheless there is plenty of overlap.

    247. James Che says:

      Ian Brotherhood,

      I watched it,

      I see a man waking and realising that he has been in a dream for most of his life,

      The more he wakes up the more fervent his fight to gain wakefulness.

    248. John Main says:

      To return to Libby’s interview for a mo …

      Seems to me that Alba should be exploring ways to use the pics on their election leaflets. The power pose and the killer heels with priceless antique furniture pic will resonate widely with the inhabitants of Scotland’s less salubrious slums.

      No wonder she doesn’t want any unwashed coming near.

      Just needs a good byeline:

      “SNP – Delivering success for some”

      You’re welcome.

    249. Ruby says:

      Breastplate says:
      14 August, 2022 at 11:07 am

      Ruby,
      I think that he’s asking people to wake up.

      Well OK but what do we do when we wake up?

      I’ve been wide awake since Sturgeon fired Mark MacDonald for sending a text.

      I suppose Neil Oliver is restricted in what he can say as he could easily fall foul of the law.

      He’s opting for the ‘all talk no action’ safe route.

      I suspect we are going to have to start an underground movement.

      “Mum I’m awake! Stop banging on my door and tell me what you want me to do!”</b

    250. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Rev’s Twitter account has been suspended again so he’s got a new one – @ghostedwings

      🙂

    251. Ruby says:

      “Mum I’m awake! Stop banging on my door and tell me what you want me to do!”

      I’m changing that to

      “Mum I’m awake! Stop banging on my door and tell me what you are going to do!”

      I think my mum might be trying to goad me into doing something that she wouldn’t do herself.

      Maybe Neil Oliver isn’t trying to wake us up he’s trying to incite us into doing something illegal.

      His next rant could be about the cybernats & calling for ‘Paranoia Poppy’ to reign in her followers.

    252. Roger says:

      @TheGhostOfWings is banned again from twitter??

    253. Ruby says:

      Roger says:
      14 August, 2022 at 11:39 am

      @TheGhostOfWings is banned again from twitter??

      He’s back with a new account
      https://twitter.com/ghostedwings

      Air punch!

      Iain Brotherhood a very alert reader posted this earlier.

      I posted again ‘cos Iain’s link didn’t work for me.

    254. Robert Hughes says:

      Breastplate

      ” If he’s not pro independence now, it doesn’t seem like he’s too far off as it seems that he’s for decentralisation of authority, to what extent is still to be seen. ”

      I think he could change his mind on Scottish Independence were it not for Sturgeon/SNP . Which he views – correctly in my opinion – as just more of the same Political class of useless fucks pandering to every dictum handed down from the Corporate Olympus and unelected * Influencers * ( WEF. WHO.IMF et al ) whose dominance is increasing – unopposed – daily .

      Not that his stance on Independence matters greatly , he’s just one guy after all . Nonetheless , he’s also the fairly high-profile media type it would be useful to have onside , and probably would ,if the cause of Indy wasn’t tarred by association with yon mob of empty vessels .

      Next wheeze dreamt-up by sociopaths and to be embraced by ScotGov ….

      Charter Cities ! Which , if realised , will be the apotheosis of Capitalist Corporate * Culture * , the death of what remains of Democracy and the * mercy killing * of the sick animal we call individual human freedom .

    255. Republicofscotland says:

      Of course what happened to Salman Rushdie was terrible and should never happen to any author for expressing an opinion, every subject should be open to criticism including ALL religions.

      People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones as the saying goes, and I’m referring to the West with this. Oh they might not have physically stabbed Julian Assange, but the Great Satan (US) issued a fatwa against him in another fashion, that if successful will see him die in a US prison.

      Scotland too under the tenure of the betrayer has seen the author Craig Murray persecuted and sent to prison, he is an ill man and he could’ve suffered the ultimate consequence, again no stab wounds were required, its not as crude an attack, but just as effective when you are dealing with people who are already ill.

    256. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Has anyone heard anything else about the mystery man (husband of a prominent fashion model) who was taken to hospital for emergency treatment to head and bum wounds? The story appeared on Twitter last week but seems to have vanished.

      ???

    257. Republicofscotland says:

      Ian Brotherhood @7.33pm.

      Yeah Ian that’s the bigger picture, with the Great Satan’s (US) hegemony on the wane, they’ll come a tipping point when Washington will decide that the only way to stop the economic collapse will be war, and the idiotic European’s most of whom now fall under the Monroe Doctrine, will once again see a full scale war in Europe for the benefit of the US.

      Right now though as the war is not quite imminent I think we should concern ourselves with breaking free of this rancid union and stop more Scots from dying in UK/US wars, wars we don’t want or need.

      Like I said further up the stream nothing significant will happen until the betrayer is booted out of Bute House and replaced with a pro-indy FM with the ability to take us out of this horrendously onesided union.

    258. Republicofscotland says:

      Ian @11.31am.

      Thanks Ian for the link.

      I’m sure the new link will miff off a few Denison pr*cks, the Rev’s doing something right more power to him.

      Gordon MacMillan, a senior Twitter staffer with editorial responsibility for Europe, the ME and Africa is a 77th Chinthe.

    259. Andy Ellis says:

      @John Main

      Nonsense, of course, but the issue right now is that in my imagination, I see an iScotland run by the same people who can’t build a ferry, stop illegal drug deaths, imagine a fair price for an infinite, renewable, clean energy stream, or tell anybody what a woman is. To add insult to injury, they can’t even tell anybody the answer to just about the most fundamental question of all – what currency will they have in their pockets.

      FFS, there’s only 4 possibilities: £, $, €, or a new Scottish currency.

      Perhaps you just lack sufficient imagination? I’ve no axe to grind for “the same people”, unless you count the (purely metaphorical) axe I’d like to see someone bury in their backs, but why would you think those people would be in charge post indy exactly?

      Surely one of the biggest advantages of independence is the opportunities it presents for a recasting of the current Scottish political system and the current parties? I have little doubt the SNP will still be around post indy, and may even get some credit simply by dint of being the biggest pro-indy party, whatever you think of their recent performance. It’s difficult to see how they would be able to maintain anything like the dominant position they have enjoyed in recent years. A parliament using STV on the Irish pattern would ensure that a wider range of voices are heard: I for one think our new democracy would be all the better for it.

      As for currency, Alba would be well advised to put clear water between itself and the Growth Commission types apparently directing the SNPs milquetoast nationalism. They should come out in favour of an independent Scottish currency from day 1: the Merk perhaps?

      It’s hard to see how a country with Scotland’s relative advantages wouldn’t be capabel of making a success of its own central bank, currency and economic policies when so many other countries with much less going for them appear to have managed.

    260. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      14 August, 2022 at 10:05 am

      Never thought I’d ever post a link to anything by ‘Windswept and Interesting’ Neil Oliver, but hey-ho, so it goes…

      twitter.com/suzseddon/status/1558575474275647488

      I listened to it, and it seemed little more than a string of populist platitudes for “grown ups” he’s picked up from reading the last few weeks of the Guardian, Telegraph, UnHerd and Sp!ked. Is he hoping to be the Russell Brand for those who can understand words of more than three syllables?

      I am suspicious of Neil Oliver. He has history of flitting from dabblings to dabblings, whatever it appears will raise his profile the most. It was not that long ago he was flirting with the Social Democratic Party – doubtless because Rod Liddle was now in it and he was ready to do a Kilroy Silk if it looked like it was getting anywhere again.

      Remember he was made the President of the National Trust in Scotland specifically because he was regarded as a “good Yoon” and wouldn’t allow any nasty Scottish nationalist type vibes to creep in (even though by the very nature of its role, the National Trust is always going to be a vehicle for nationalisms – British, English, Scottish, Welsh or whatever – no matter how much it tries not to be!)

      Sorry if I sound cynical, but I am very much a “better the curses of your friends than the kisses of your enemies” when it comes to politics. The SNP was wrecked precisely because they allowed in careerist riff-raff and troughers at the expense of the genuine article, and were welcomed by those corrupted by the comforts of power wishing to surround themselves with the same. Neil Oliver cares only for Neil Oliver.

      If Neil Oliver is now all of a sudden an enemy of that establishment whose teat he’s suckled on long past weaning, my suspicion is it is only because it has now run dry.

    261. Republicofscotland says:

      Words fail me on this one.

      “LESLIE Evans was paid “compensation” by the Scottish Government after she had left her role as the head of the civil service, The Herald on Sunday can reveal.

      The terms of the former permanent secretary’s exit from St Andrew’s House have been shrouded in mystery.

      Though her last day in the office was on December 31, 2021, she effectively remained in post until the end of March, taking three months of “outstanding annual leave”.

      However, details of payments, released under Freedom of Information, reveal that Ms Evans was then “compensated” to cover a separate “three-month unpaid waiting period.””

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20640268.leslie-evans-received-compensation-scottish-government%2F%3Fref%3Dtwtrec

      Remember Evans wouldn’t attend the inquiry in person and relayed her answer from somewhere else, no one knows who else was in the room with her telling her what to say.

    262. Hatuey says:

      “The Right’s New Conspiracy Theory: Kamikaze Planes and Food Fires”
      https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-rights-new-conspiracy-theory-involves-kamikaze-planes-and-food-fires

      Beware of low-flying bullshit — there’s a lot of it going around.

      Just 5 years ago, I could never have predicted that conspiracy theories would become so central to ‘the right’. And I could never have predicted that so many (on the left, right, and everywhere) would have fallen for them and found them so seductive and difficult to process.

      The first thing to point out, by way of trying to help, is that right wing conspiracy theories serve a different purpose (and a different master) to what we might have once called ‘normal conspiracy theories’; the overarching goal of right wing conspiracy theories is to defend, support, bolster, and essentially rescue the free market and capitalism.

      Another distinguishing characteristic of right wing conspiracy theories is that they serve a marketing role and often as products in themselves within that sacrosanct capitalist framework. During his trial recently, it was revealed that the king of right wing conspiracy theorists, Alex Jones, was raking in around $800 thousand per day from spewing this stuff out.

      What nobody anywhere wants to admit is that capitalism and the free market has become very noticeably inappropriate in recent years. For the vast majority of people living in a civilised society, capitalism just doesn’t work. You won’t find that home truth in the conspiracy theories of Neil Oliver or Alex Jones.

      The heart of western capitalism, the banks and financial system, simply stopped beating in 2008. Since then it has been crisis after crisis, every single one underscoring the inappropriateness and dysfunctionality of underlying free market structures.

      In the old days supplying arms, for example, was an important means to an end, used to influence events and affairs abroad. Today it’s an end in itself, with all sorts of lucrative contracts up for grabs if you can start a small war — thus, war is an end in itself today, not merely a means to an end. Look closely at the current energy crisis, the covid crisis, the Brexit crisis, the inflation crisis, and you’ll find the same sort of underlying dysfunctionality.

      Some things are just too important to be left to the free market. That’s why the EEC removed farming and food from the free market and put an expensive protective bubble around it (called The CAP). That bubble of protection was subject to a continual barrage of attack, mostly (surprise, surprise) from the right, but the Europeans stuck with it and their food supply is the most stable and secure in the world today as a result.

      Some things are just too important to be left to the free market… apply that to your electricity bills, banking, food, war and the manufacturing of arms, disease control, railways, public health generally, etc., and you can see why some people are worried and keen to distract us.

      Survival for all of us depends on having access to these things. The big conspiracy right now is that we should be talking about ways of making sure we have access to them and we aren’t. Instead we are talking about gender politics and kamikaze planes flying into food processing plants.

      And that brings me to the third and most important aspect of right wing conspiracy theories; they are designed to confuse and distract people, not enlighten or guide them towards any sort of solution. The last thing they want is ordinary people thinking about remedies and how their lives could be improved in a system of capitalist anarchy held together by corruption, lies, and scotch tape.

    263. Republicofscotland says:

      A couple excerpts from the betrayer and her Guardian interview.

      “I’ve set out a clear path forward, so I’m feeling up for that,”

      Says the betrayer with indy in mind, but we know that soundbite couldn’t be further from the truth.

      “whenever I do stop being first minister, I’m still going to be relatively young. This would not always have been true of me, but a life after politics doesn’t faze me.”

      We know the latter part to be true nothing fazes her, and that’s why Scotland is in the state its in.

      “just not feeling as if you’re on public display all the time” – but can’t imagine an international role that takes her too far from Scotland “because I’m a homely person”.

      For someone that claims to be a home person she can’t help shitting in the nest, I can, and I’m sure I’m not alone only hope she leaves Scotland for good, after she’s evicted from Bute House or stands down as FM, and the healing process can then begin.

      “Assuming there is a judgment round about the turn of the year, then we will be able to take legislation through on a timescale for [a vote on] 19 October.” Meanwhile, her plan C if all other routes are exhausted, to fight the next general election on the question of independence alone – a “de facto referendum”

      Sturgeon confirms what some of us know already a plebiscitary GE would be just a clarion call to the faithful to elect as many SNP MPs as possible. Think about it we had 56 SNP MPs at one point and f*ck all happened on the indyfront.

      “There’s no ounce of complacency on my part. I’ve spent the last few years with people within the yes movement saying, ‘Why don’t you go for it now, because obviously people are going to vote yes, given the state of the UK?’ I’ve never thought it is that straightforward.”

      Oh we know what you think of “going for It” both the Scottish government and the LA opposed Mr Keatings attempts to find out about “Going for It” and the current LA has severely damaged any indyref by “Not going for It”.

      “There was a period where I was trying to lead the country through a global pandemic, and at the same time trying to withstand a full-frontal assault by my predecessor to bring me down,”

      I think most of us know who was trying to bring whom down and for what reason.

      This just about sums up Sturgeon the betrayer of Scots.

      “She was called “Elsie McSelfie” on Twitter after posing with celebrities at last year’s Cop26 climate conference in Glasgow.”

    264. Hatuey says:

      The only time I ever see women dressed like that is when there’s a marching band in front of them…

      She clearly knows she’s finished. We can assume the SNP spend a lot of private polling and her unpopularity levels crossed electoral liability lines. Once that sort of thing gets going in the wrong direction, it’s impossible to stop.

      I don’t think Scottish politics or the SNP can heal until we find out the truth of the Salmond scandal. I know we all want independence fast but the issues raised in that are of such seriousness that they can’t be ignored.

      One thing’s for sure, if Sturgeon ever finds herself in court, empty seats will not be a problem.

    265. Ruby says:

      https://tinyurl.com/mvhunjkn

      Spotted this on Twitter.

      Christopher Hitchens on Rushdie.

      Brilliant!

    266. Robert Hughes says:

      ” Neil Oliver cares only for Neil Oliver.

      If Neil Oliver is now all of a sudden an enemy of that establishment whose teat he’s suckled on long past weaning, my suspicion is it is only because it has now run dry. ”

      Aye , that could well be the case Mark . I’ve slagged him plenty in the past and he was on my list of unwatchables/unlistenables until recently

      But this is one those * awkward * incidents when someone you previously had no time for comes out with an opinion you are obliged to acknowledge is right ; or, at least , chimes with your own . Not necessarily the same thing 🙂

      Hatuey .

      ” What nobody anywhere wants to admit is that capitalism and the free market has become very noticeably inappropriate in recent years. For the vast majority of people living in a civilised society, capitalism just doesn’t work. You won’t find that home truth in the conspiracy theories of Neil Oliver or Alex Jones. ” .

      Quite so . Though I wouldn’t put N Oliver n A Jones in the same category of * Conspiracy Theorist * . The latter is frothing lunatic/smart * entrepreneur * : the former , well , people can judge for themselves and time will tell if his new role as an , ahem ….Anti-Establishment Critic is anything other than skin-deep . I do agree with a lot of what he’s saying nonetheless , and at least he’s saying it .

    267. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ““The applicant is funded mainly from voluntary contributions”. I thought its main source of funding was now “Short Money” from the UK State.”

      You are correct.

    268. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      12 August, 2022 at 7:41 pm
      12 August, 2022 at 11:38 am”

      WHAT FUCKING PART OF THIS IS UNCLEAR?

    269. Ruby says:

      That’s quite a freezer full of ice cream that you have Stuart!

      I didn’t spot any of these!
      https://tinyurl.com/4kb45pz6

      These are delicious and you can just pop them into your mouth so no melted ice cream dribbling down the front of your teeshirt.

      They are on sale in Farmfoods for 2 for a £1. Bargain!

      In Tesco £1.50 for one if you have a clubcard.

      They come in strawberry with white choc or vanilla with milk choc. The strawberry ones are the best.
      I bought both well I had to … 2 for a £1.

      Just though I would tell you all that to soften you up before asking you how the same comment can be posted twice & also to ask you if I am still on the naughty step banned from mentioning the name Andy Ellis?

      🙂

    270. Scott says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      14 August, 2022 at 1:57 pm

      WHAT FUCKING PART OF THIS IS UNCLEAR?

      *Interpreting for the neds*

      You can’t repost this…hammer time

    271. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      14 August, 2022 at 2:32 pm

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      14 August, 2022 at 1:57 pm

      WHAT FUCKING PART OF THIS IS UNCLEAR?

      *Interpreting for the neds*

      You can’t repost this…hammer time

      You have obviously never been a special needs teacher or pupil.

      If you post a comment and it goes into moderation don’t go trying to track down the banned word and re-posting without the banned word.
      If you post the same comment a 2nd time the bot will prevent your post from upload and you’ll get the message ‘you’ve already posted/uploaded that fuckin’ comment you daft cabbage’ or something like that.

      Crystal fuckin’ clear or what?

      Is the killing with hammers done with two hammers one in each hand or are we talking
      ‘Stuart Hammer Hands?’

    272. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “They are on sale in Farmfoods for 2 for a £1.”

      I’m more of a water-ice man when it comes to lollies, but in any event tragically the nearest Farmfoods is many miles away. I miss it 🙁

    273. Ruby says:

      Oh shut up!

      I know sometimes you can correct the banned word & your post will upload.

    274. Ruby says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      14 August, 2022 at 2:59 pm

      “They are on sale in Farmfoods for 2 for a £1.”

      I’m more of a water-ice man when it comes to lollies, but in any event tragically the nearest Farmfoods is many miles away. I miss it ?

      That’s tragic! Downside of living in Poshville?
      I won’t tell you about all the 20 for a £1 Farmfoods lolly bargains then!

      PS What aboot your visitors/cats & rats? They might like a wee cornetto?
      Not into the idea that it’s ‘fun to share’? 🙂

    275. Hatuey says:

      Robert, I’d be interested to hear how you think Jones and Oliver are significantly different.

      Both of them do this for a living, obviously. Yes, there’s always a degree of truth in what they say — all good liars sprinkle the truth around their crazy ideas quite liberally.

      You’d need to be quite gullible to believe Sandy Hook was staged, though. Same with that Pizza-gate stuff, it was nuts. There are other examples.

      The more interesting issue is the susceptibility and gullibility of people right now, particularly in the west.

      On one hand, we have our disgraceful past, hundreds of years of lies, exploitation, and brutality. Nobody really wants to face up to that in the west. Historical issues aren’t as historical as we like to think.

      On the other hand, looking forward, the west has a very uncertain future. China, India, and others, are dominating the global economy. If capitalism suited us in the past, it’s seems to suit less and less of us today and that raises big questions about where we are and where we are heading.

      We are caught between those two horrific bookends in the present, with nowhere to turn for comfort and meaningful explanations outside of infowars and Youtube. It’s the perfect breeding conditions for crackpots and madness.

    276. Scott says:

      Ruby’s having a tantrum, for reasons.

      I’ve had posts go into moderation, but haven’t bleated about it, because it’s not my blog and I don’t make the rules.

      What do they put in the water in Edinburgh these days? (Asking for a neighbour of mine)

    277. Andy Ellis says:

      You’d need to be quite gullible to believe Sandy Hook was staged, though. Same with that Pizza-gate stuff, it was nuts. There are other examples.

      True dat. There again, as we’ve seen in this very place, there is plenty of “blame” to go around with people in here punting conspiracy theory woo woo about Vlad and his nice bunch of lads just giving the people of Country 404 what they deserved for being nazis and militarists, warning of the coming Great Reset and the dangers of the WEF Illuminati, various flavours of covidiocy etc.

      The more interesting issue is the susceptibility and gullibility of people right now, particularly in the west.

      Whilst undoubtedly true, it’s not a phenomenon unique to the west. Plenty of Russians steadfastly believe Vlad’s narrative about the war for example and see the west as a threat, and believe its values are both foreign and inimical to their interests. What we see as progressive, they see as amoral. similarly, many in the muslim world will, as we’ve seen, be applauding Salman Rushdie’s attacker and would happily see the imposition of their values universally.

      If capitalism suited us in the past, it’s seems to suit less and less of us today and that raises big questions about where we are and where we are heading.

      Time will tell. Events, dear boy….events. Capitalism in its current form may not survive, either because it resets itself, or because the people it no longer suits change its form. Real redistribution of wealth and promotion of policies promoting levelling up may become popular again as they were post WW2 before the robber barons and spivs took over.

      Whether the Chinese model, or some other model will emerge to overturn capitalism and/or liberal democracy seems a bit more problematic. We don’t know what the growth of the Chinese and Indian economies, (or other BRICS) and the potential for one or both to use their future economic, political and potential military power in different ways will signify for the global system, or for our own national interests.

      Perhaps the Cassandras are right: in the meantime all we can do is try to work towards making an independent Scotland as secure as it can be, and a better “international citizen” than the UK was or is.

    278. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      14 August, 2022 at 4:13 pm

      True dat. There again, as we’ve seen in this very place, there is plenty of “blame” to go around with people in here punting conspiracy theory woo woo about Vlad and his nice bunch of lads just giving the people of Country 404 what they deserved for being nazis and militarists, warning of the coming Great Reset

      Capitalism in its current form may not survive, either because it resets itself, or because the people it no longer suits change its form.

      Cognitive dissonance on display, yet again.

      What a balloon.

    279. Scott says:

      Well that lasted long…ghostedWings has gone already.

      https://twitter.com/ghostedwings

    280. sarah says:

      O/T: a new variant on “Bad gateway” that says a blog isn’t available. I read the Rev’s new post “The Great Terror” on Wings as normal about 30 minutes ago and also his Facebook entry about it.

      Now both items have disappeared.

      Anybody else finding the same problem?

    281. Grouser says:

      Is this page under ‘attack’? I’ve had a couple of notices saying Error 404, Page not found.

    282. David Lyon says:

      Seems the latest article has been unpublished, hence the link now shows a 404 error.

    283. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott” 4.26 pm

      Anyone without your apparent cognitive impairment will be able to discern the difference between woo-woo merchants wibbling on about “the Great Reset” and the WEF Illuminati pulling all the strings, and the current “flavour” of capitalism being ditched for something more like the forms which promoted a rather different society to that being promoted and created by those currently in charge.

      It doesn’t mean there’s going to be a revolution, or we’ll all start agreeing with apologists for Vlad like RepublicofScotland, or covidiots posting about how Bill and Melinda Gates want to inject us all with trackers, or lackwits telling us our independence has been stolen by the MSM/furriners/chinthes or because we’re a colony. HTH/YW

    284. sarah says:

      @ David Lyon: all will be revealed in due course, I expect.

    285. Robert Hughes says:

      ” I’d be interested to hear how you think Jones and Oliver are significantly different. ”

      Because , for example , one says Sandy Hook was a staged event and one doesn’t .

    286. Ruby says:

      Scott says:
      14 August, 2022 at 4:11 pm

      Ruby’s having a tantrum, for reasons.

      I’ve had posts go into moderation, but haven’t bleated about it, because it’s not my blog and I don’t make the rules.

      What do they put in the water in Edinburgh these days? (Asking for a neighbour of mine)


      Where did you get the idea that I’ve had posts put into moderation?

      Did you just make that up along with this neighbour of yours who wants to know about the water in Edinburgh.

      I’m having a tantrum because I’m on the naughty step and you fuckin’ aren’t.

      It’s not as if you are a good little boy who never complains, always obeys the rules and would never ever dare to call someone a cunt.

      Is calling someone a cunt really so bad? It’s OK to call someone a schemie, a thicko, pleb, fringe nutter, menopausal harridan and all the rest but not a cunt.

      It’s very weird especially when the reprimand came from someone who regularly uses swear words. But hey we can all cave into pressure from constant complaints about ‘cunt calling’

    287. Scott says:

      Andy Ellis says:
      14 August, 2022 at 5:00 pm

      @”Scott” 4.26 pm

      Anyone without your apparent cognitive impairment will be able to discern the difference between woo-woo merchants wibbling on about “the Great Reset” and the WEF Illuminati pulling all the strings and the current “flavour” of capitalism being ditched for something more like the forms which promoted a rather different society to that being promoted and created by those currently in charge.

      We are where we are because of capitalism, there’s never been a nice fluffy version of it.

      WEF website lists corporations working in partnership…check it out if you haven’t already.

      And then get one of your socks to post in support of your gibberish.

    288. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      14 August, 2022 at 5:18 pm

      Where did you get the idea that I’ve had posts put into moderation?

      It was this comment

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-little-country-that-lost-its-mind/comment-page-2/#comment-2701140

      And this reply to me seems to confirm it.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-little-country-that-lost-its-mind/comment-page-2/#comment-2701134

      But, you do you.

    289. Andy Ellis says:

      We are where we are because of capitalism, there’s never been a nice fluffy version of it.

      And your alternative is…..? Capitalism for all its faults still appears preferable to the other systems tried from time to time. Doubtless if you have an alternative which is convincing enough folk will be flocking to support your new model. Good luck with that!

      And then get one of your socks to post in support of your gibberish.

      Ordinary folk who disagree with your fringe views you mean? Like the rest of the moonhowlers in here you seem to forget you and your worldview represent the views of a tiny minority of the movement and even less of the voting public. Sophomoric political posturing isn’t going to help the independence movement or those facing tough times ahead. It’s generally the preserve of those that have already failed and given up but are content to throw rocks from the sidelines, or the simply delusional who actually think their woo-woo is real. Doesn’t really matter whether the woo-woo concerned is TRA extremism, nativism, covidiocy, or “cunning plans for indy” and the Scotland as colony schtick.

    290. Republicofscotland says:

      Scott @4.43pm.

      Jeez that didn’t take long the chinthe crew must be monitoring this site very closely, tipped off no doubt by one or two of their buddies in here.

      What happened to the new thread?

    291. Ruby says:

      Well Scott you got it wrong. Deliberately?

      I think if you look back you will see I always complain if I have post put into moderation.

      I’m not a goodie goodie like you who ‘never complains & always obeys the rules.’ LOL

      Fuck that for a way to bring about change.

      Lets see if the person who has had these posts moderated owns up.

      It could be you for all we know!

      The posts in question were made on:

      12 August, 2022 at 7:41 pm
      12 August, 2022 at 11:38 am

      Just checked and found that
      you made the ’12 August, 2022 at 11:38 am’ post Scott.

      Is your ’12 August, 2022 at 7:41 pm’ awaiting moderation?

    292. Ruby says:

      Republicofscotland says:
      14 August, 2022 at 6:08 pm

      Scott @4.43pm.

      Jeez that didn’t take long the chinthe crew must be monitoring this site very closely, tipped off no doubt by one or two of their buddies in here.

      What happened to the new thread?

      I’m going with Stuart taking it down to edit it.
      I don’t think hackers can just take down one page of a website.

      https://tinyurl.com/3cr6fe35

    293. Scott says:

      Mark Boyle says:
      12 August, 2022 at 7:44 pm

      Mark Boyle says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      12 August, 2022 at 7:41 pm

      —-

      FAO Ruby

      Boyle was quoting my comment posted at 11:38, but I think you knew that already.

      yw,hth

    294. Hatuey says:

      Robert, I have no evidence either way as to whether or not Oliver thinks or thought that Sandy Hook was staged.

      I have evidence that he thinks other things were staged though, like the supposed attack on food processing plants, farmers, and food supplies generally. And that’s equally nuts, in my opinion.

      I’ll steer clear of anything to do with Covid, but his views there are somewhat questionable too, as I see it.

      I repeat, Oliver (like Jones) makes no attempt to get to the capitalist causes of a lot of these problems, and like Jones he offers nothing in terms of a solution.

      All they tell us is that the world has gone mad, not a lot we can do about it, something to do with globalists and woke people… click here to buy now.

    295. Fionan says:

      OT but relevant. I see another new Wings post but cant access it. Error 404 every way I try. Grrrr!! I am so sick of these grey people controlling what I can see or read! The situation is ridiculous now!

      Firefox, bing, google, refreshing this page, anyone have any other suggestions what might work?

    296. And spouse says:

      I’m having same issue. What’s afoot?

    297. McDuff says:

      Fionan
      Yeah I saw the WoS post too but didn’t have time to read it. Now its gone???

    298. Robert Hughes says:

      ” I repeat, Oliver (like Jones) makes no attempt to get to the capitalist causes of a lot of these problems, and like Jones he offers nothing in terms of a solution. ”

      I’ve already agreed with that point H and I’m not trying to depict Oliver as some kind of radical , that’s a laughable notion , plainly he benefits greatly from the Capitalist System and won’t be found on the * barricades * anytime soon .

      The point I suppose is that he IS saying things you rarely – if ever , hear said on MSM . Whether you or I agree with him is secondary .I’m aware GB News is trying to position itself as the Anti-Woke channel , but , again , is it not a good thing that not every MSM outlet is subscribing to that idiocy .

      That the – minimal , * resistance * against that shit is coming from the Right is just another reflection of the feeble-mindedness of what passes for the Left these days but doesn’t mean one has to agree with or be unaware of the underlying agenda of platforms like GB News .

    299. paul says:


      Andy Ellis says:
      14 August, 2022 at 5:52 pm

      We are where we are because of capitalism, there’s never been a nice fluffy version of it.

      That is rather sweeping statement, but if we are where we are, and increasing amount of people seem to resent where we are, obviously and logically we should blame capitalism, as you tell us that is why we are here.

      And your alternative is…..? Capitalism for all its faults still appears preferable to the other systems tried from time to time. Doubtless if you have an alternative which is convincing enough folk will be flocking to support your new model. Good luck with that!

      Yet another sweeping statement, masking your own inability to offer an alternative.

      And then get one of your socks to post in support of your gibberish.

      Ordinary folk

      Those poor beleaguered souls with only you as vanguard?

      who disagree with your fringe views you mean? Like the rest of the moonhowlers in here you seem to forget you and your worldview represent the views of a tiny minority of the movement and even less of the voting public.

      Define moonhowlers and the non moon howlers you are defending so tirelessly.

      Sophomoric

      Must be a down south thing, I was called a lot of names when I was young, ‘sophomorhic’, being an american phrase, was never one.

      I understand why it might find favour with you, as it expresses quite undeseverved condescension and contempt.

      political posturing isn’t going to help the independence movement or those facing tough times ahead. It’s generally the preserve of those that have already failed and given up but are content to throw rocks from the sidelines, or the simply delusional who actually think their woo-woo is real. Doesn’t really matter whether the woo-woo concerned is TRA extremism, nativism, covidiocy, or “cunning plans for indy” and the Scotland as colony schtick.

      I’m a lazy man, so I’ll leave that internet litter for someone else to rummage through.

    300. Ruby says:

      Lets leave it there Scot because I think we’re straying into ‘fuckin’ playground shit’ territory.

      The only thing I knew was I did not complain about either of these posts being put into moderation because they were not my posts.

      PS My neighbour has just told me there are lots of problems in Glasgow due to people eating too much cheap chicken. 🙂

      Have a nice evening Scott. Enjoy your nuggets.

    301. Ruby says:

      Fionan says:

      Firefox, bing, google, refreshing this page, anyone have any other suggestions what might work?

      Patience?

    302. And Spouse says:

      Apparently Rogerio debrunico or exciled sasenach on Twitter has archived page???

    303. Hatuey says:

      I’m happy to be considered too dim to understand your point, Robert. On one hand you seem to attribute value to what Oliver says, on the other you seem to accept there are clear flaws.

      You say the MSM don’t cover the sort of stuff Oliver draws attention to but Fox covered the food plant attacks stuff, from the exact same perspective as Oliver.

      The MSM is hamstrung by the realities of the world though, and can’t go near the truth about the past, present, or future.

      Broadly speaking, who wants to hear that the living standards of most western countries are falling because Asia is better at manufacturing, and cheaper, that the future is economically bleak for us, that the only reason we were ever better off in the first place, or seemingly better when it came to industry and economics, was because we cheated and used superior military strength to dominate markets, etc?

      It’s hardly surprising that it’s in that one area, military power, that western superiority persists. Fantastic, but we can’t eat bullets and bombs.

      The MSM can’t discuss any of that because it is essentially owned and managed by the very small minority in the west who own and manage almost everything else and they’re firmly against change.

      People know that too and a growing number are just not watching or listening… they understand that the MSM has nothing but bullshit propaganda to offer. And, yes, if you’re saying you’d rather listen to Oliver’s bullshit than BBC bullshit, I agree, I would too, if only because it’s more entertaining.

    304. Scott says:

      Ruby says:
      14 August, 2022 at 7:36 pm

      Lets leave it there Scot because I think we’re straying into ‘fuckin’ playground shit’ territory.

      The only thing I knew was I did not complain about either of these posts being put into moderation because they were not my posts.

      I never accused you of being the person Rev Stu was addressing, you made that bit up.

      There was only one post put into moderation @ 7:41pm which you most certainly did complain about, otherwise this discussion wouldn’t be happening.

      I can see why you want to leave it there, though.

    305. Fionan says:

      So the garrulous Ruby, who is just about as narcissistic and attention-seeking as Sturgeon is, actually thinks that patience is the perfect tool to counteract outside interference with our ability to access information? But of course we must all bow to her infinite and incredibly witty wisdom, mustn’t we? So let’s all be patient folks, and just maybe it will become possible to access Wings again, and just maybe when we do manage that, we will find that Ellis, Boyle and Ruby have finally garbled themselves and each other to death.

      Now go scream to Stu, Ruby, and get me banned, because tbh, your constant attention-seeking gobbledegook ruins the flow of sensible comment and discussion on wings, and by the time we all have to scroll past you and Ellis bickering and your couple of mates extolling the virtues of both of you, the thread of useful discussion is destroyed. I guess that’s your (pl) intentions though, so I will go pick up a good book instead, that I dont need to have patience forever to get to read.

    306. Robert Hughes says:

      ” On one hand you seem to attribute value to what Oliver says, on the other you seem to accept there are clear flaws. ”

      You understand fine what I’m saying , it’s what you say above

      I see no contradiction there . I attribute – some – value to what he says ..eg.. about the abysmal quality of our Political representatives and their collusion either by design or stupidity/self-interest or a fuzzy combination of both in the ever-increasing intrusion of the State into our lives .

      The flaws as you accurately identify are his silence on the fundamental causes of or local and global malaise , the soul-sickness of the World .

      We can call it Capitalism , but that doesn’t really say much – it’s kinda abstract . It’s in the end down to people : people who seek and/or are elevated to positions of power and influence and are often the very worse people to have those positions .

      I believe – like you I imagine – the Neo Lib/Con Capitalist way of organising societies is an aberration , which – one way or another – is the major source if global conflict and will possibly lead to the destruction of the planet and/or our species . To state the obvious ……it’s individual people that comprise that system . We need to target THEM . And get much better at judging the character and intentions of those we elect to be our representatives . A perennial problem , we know

    307. John Main says:

      @Hatuey 12:39 pm

      Just wondering how the knowledge that the terms “right wing” and “left wing” have been dropped by serious commentators as essentially meaningless could have passed you by.

      What obsolescent terms are you going to bang on about next?

      Your pro-EU enthusiasm is another trip right down memory lane. You really need to educate yourself about the current dire straights of the EU: start with Germany, then go on to examine Italy, Greece and Hungary.

      As for your assertion that the world has gone mad, perhaps you should think again about the Covid insanity. As I recall, you couldn’t get enough of it at the time. Death to the unbelievers was your slogan. Hardly surprising you much prefer to now find fault with all those centuries of “lies, exploitation and brutality”.

      Conveniently, you will be off the hook for that. Just like everybody else alive today, but hey, a win’s a win. You must take one when you can.

    308. Ruby says:

      Fionan says:
      14 August, 2022 at 8:14 pm
      But of course we must all bow to her infinite and incredibly witty wisdom, mustn’t we?

      Well in this case I do 100% believe that would be a very good idea.
      But hey you are free to do what you like.
      ‘So let’s all be patient folks, and just maybe it will become possible to access Wings again’
      It looks as if we both have access to Wings right now.
      I strongly believe that by tomorrow the new article will be up again or there will be an explanation as to why it isn’t.

      But that is just my opinion.

      I won’t be screaming to Stu to get you banned why would I. You should go screaming to Stu to get me banned it looks as if it’s something you would really like to do.

    309. John Main says:

      @Andy Ellis 12:32

      Too fucking right Alba should come out with a clear answer to the currency question. It’s long overdue that somebody should.

      I’ll say it again. People need answers. People don’t buy the “just have faith and your prayers will be answered post-Indy” story.

    310. John Main says:

      @Ruby 8:41

      Only 100%?

      Why not 1000000%?

      Or, match your infinite wisdom with infinite %

    311. Hatuey says:

      Not so sure it is that abstract, Robert, but it seems we both are roughly in agreement on the standing of the MSM and people like Oliver.

      Is it abstract to wonder how many million pay-as-you-go card metres UK electricity companies will be placing orders for in China this year?

      As I chirped earlier, some things are just too important to be left to the free market…

      Strange as it may seem, I believe in globalisation and free markets. I think we should consider giving those ideas a try one of these days. But not where essentials, like health, food, energy, and arms are involved.

    312. Robert Hughes says:

      Fair enough H ; can’t disagree with the above – weeeell … I could ….eg Globalisation involves – by definition – a ( as we say in these parts ) whoorna lot of transportation ergo , fuel consumption ; are we not supposed to be trying to reduce that ?

      Are Markets ever truly * free * if they have to operate in a competitive, profit-driven environment ?

    313. John Main says:

      RH 9:15

      Globalisation also allows the purchaser of the goods to scoff at claims that they were assembled by child labour, or modern-day slaves. So that permits lots of time to value-signal about, for example, historic slavery.

      But my own personal favourite is when people congratulate themselves on just how clean our post-industrial air and water is. A state of affairs that can only exist alongside studied ignorance of the filthy, polluted conditions that we have effectively outsourced when we decided that all of the environmental safeguards were unaffordable, so just do it all abroad and ignore their environmental catastrophe, because, look how cheap the goods are.

      That attitude typically goes hand-in-hand with somebody telling us how badly we exploited the third world in days gone by, but we would never do that now because we are so much more enlightened.

    314. Hatuey says:

      Well, if you look into more modern (green-washed) definitions of “comparative advantage”, you’ll find that it is indeed possible to be an eco-friendly globalist.

      In terms of real free trade and capitalism, I think it’s harder today to find anything resembling laissez faire than it ever was. I’d exclude anything made in The People’s (no, not those people, John) Republic of China from that sort of discussion.

      More so than ever before, anywhere you look in the economy you’ll find back-handlers, abuses of monopoly power (facilitated by politicians in most cases), cartels, and all manner of corrupt practices in play.

      You’re right, though, working definitions are much needed in all things political and economic these days. That in itself says a lot.

    315. Hatuey says:

      back-handers not handlers*

      😐

    316. Robert Hughes says:

      John Main says:
      14 August, 2022 at 9:33 pm
      RH 9:15

      Globalisation also allows the purchaser of the goods to scoff at claims that they were assembled by child labour, or modern-day slaves.

      Correct John . We could also mention the Globalisation of Finance . How it has facilitated Money Laundering on a massive scale , the off-shoring of taxes and profits and the whole industry of Tax * Avoidance *

    317. Scott says:

      Wandering through the back catalogue and this jumped out the screen, a split second before I spluttered coffee over it.

      “Like all his friends, the Ghost was out of work, although he had a PhD from St Andrews University…” – The Mars bar at your seat, Jan 2014.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-mars-bar-at-your-seat/

    318. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Have just caught up with today’s comments and see there are frequent references to the Neil Oliver soliloquy.

      What I don’t see are any direct quotes from his 9-minute spiel and/or direct refutations of what he said. Okay, it’s an ‘opinion piece’ but GBNews should surely be applauded for allowing someone – anyone! – to contradict the mainstream narrative being punted everywhere else.

      The fact that it’s Neil Oliver delivering this ‘controversial’ stuff shouldn’t be an issue. As noted by Mark Boyle earlier, it’s sufficiently out-of-kilter to raise eyebrows because it’s ‘him’, aye, but most of us here are not predisposed to supporting Oliver after his role in the propaganda war leading up to indyref1. (That’s understandable if for no other reason than his interpretation/presentation of Scottish history has always been highly suspect.)

      We should be bigger than that. Oliver needs an image consultant for a start – doing double-denim and looking as if you’ve just been shifted from a park bench is not a good look generally. But if we focus on what he said in that address, what then? Can anyone identify a solitary statement which can’t be backed up?

      Comparing him with Alex Jones and/or David Icke isn’t helpful – neither of them have ever been employed by ‘mainstream’ broadcasters (unless you’re pedantic enough to include Icke appearing on Match Of The Day.)

      It may not be a popular opinion right now, but I applaud Oliver for making the most of his platform. It probably won’t last much longer. As we’ve seen from today’s shenanigans on Twitter, this place, relatively obscure in the scheme of things, will never escape the attention of the Establishment. They simply must cover all bases at all times. Neil Oliver will ‘retire’ to go on sabbatical or suchlike. But, for the record, I’m not the only one who salutes what he’s doing. He’s a brave man.

      In any case, we can’t and should not expect ‘celebrities’ to make sense of what’s happening – it’s not why most of them became well-known in the first place, is it?

      😉

    319. Roger says:

      Scott says:
      11 August, 2022 at 7:28 pm

      Anyone else getting a blank .htm download after opening WoS (on Firefox)?
      Yes – it shows up in my downloa folder as “G3qqvE03.html” – I deleted it.

    320. Hatuey says:

      You ask if we can point to one solitary statement in Oliver’s “address” that cannot be backed up, Ian, and then you refer to him as brave. These things are connected.

      The reason his points can very easily be backed up is because we have heard them all before, and I must say that I fail to see what is brave about repeating things that are already well consolidated in public discourse.

      I should ask you to provide one solitary statement in his broadcast that hasn’t been said before and at the same time isn’t a well-established point of view.

      The stuff he implied about there being some sort of covert plan to attack food supply chains is point blank bonkers. I’d love to attribute that to him but Tucker Carlson and others said it before.

      Just about everything he said about the vaccines is admitted now. Yes, it’s contrary to what they told us about vaccine efficacy and side effects before, but there’s pretty solid data available on long term immunity from studies in places like Qatar that are hard to argue with.

      Happy to discuss those studies in detail and provide links, but I appreciate that a lot of people don’t want the comments clogged up with that stuff and so I will only do so if asked.

    321. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Hatuey (11.53) –

      Neil Oliver is being hammered on social media as ‘the new David Icke’ and that gives some measure of how his latest comments are being received by the mainstream audience.

      For anyone to knowingly venture into that territory is, well, let’s call it ‘foolhardy’? Why would he do that?

      Could it be that he believes what he’s saying and has good reason?

      In any case I appreciate your response and I hope we can agree to disagree – there’s all sorts of stuff going on right now that neither of us is privy to and we’re just groping our way in the dark like abody else. At least we’re making the effort to talk about it in a civilised manner.

      I wish you well.

      😉

    322. Scott says:

      “Just about everything he said about the vaccines is admitted now. Yes, it’s contrary to what they told us about vaccine efficacy and side effects before, but there’s pretty solid data available on long term immunity from studies in places like Qatar that are hard to argue with.” – Hatuey

      If you can’t see the fucking circularity of your argument, you must be a shill.

      You berated any and all who questioned the logic of ‘Public Health Messages’ at the time.

    323. Derek says:

      “Fionan says:
      14 August, 2022 at 6:51 pm

      OT but relevant. I see another new Wings post but cant access it. Error 404 every way I try. Grrrr!! I am so sick of these grey people controlling what I can see or read! The situation is ridiculous now!

      Firefox, bing, google, refreshing this page, anyone have any other suggestions what might work?”

      I tried going by way of History but still got error messages.

    324. Mark Boyle says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      14 August, 2022 at 10:59 pm

      Have just caught up with today’s comments and see there are frequent references to the Neil Oliver soliloquy.

      … What I don’t see are any direct quotes from his 9-minute spiel and/or direct refutations of what he said …

      The fact that it’s Neil Oliver delivering this ‘controversial’ stuff shouldn’t be an issue. As noted by Mark Boyle earlier, it’s sufficiently out-of-kilter to raise eyebrows because it’s ‘him’, aye, but most of us here are not predisposed to supporting Oliver after his role in the propaganda war leading up to indyref1. (That’s understandable if for no other reason than his interpretation/presentation of Scottish history has always been highly suspect.)

      We should be bigger than that.

      It was being bigger than that which got Scottish nationalism into this almighty bloody mess in the first place.

      “Let a thousand carpet baggers, chancers, hidden agendaist join!” was the cry. “So what if some turn out to be wrong ‘uns? What’s important is finishing the corrupt Labour Movement that turned Scotland into a feudal fiefdom for self-perpetuating “Labour families! Bleed it to death of its minions and it will never return!”

      But oh, didn’t anyone tell them the price all nationalism suffers when it cuts corners? You try to cheat your way to any finish line, and you always lose.

      You saw it happen yourself to the Scottish Socialist Party when it let the Socialist Workers cockroaches in.

      It’s as old as human civilisation … those claiming to have “saw the light” more often than not have really saw “mene mene tekel upharsin” on the wall and know what it means. There’s likely to be a cultural Year Zero coming up, and old Oliver fears his impending obsolescence.

    325. Roger says:

      @derek/Fionan

      Try this
      https://archive.ph/aTsxC

    326. Hatuey says:

      I wish you well too, Ian, and it might surprise you to know I always have. I said more than once in here that the people I argue with are often the people I admire most — you’re one of them.

      As regards agreeing to disagree, yes, happy to do so, and happy to remain civil, but I honestly don’t know what we’d be disagreeing about.

      Incidentally, I think being called David Icke is quite the compliment; a lot of what Icke said about certain subjects turned out to be bang on.

      Anyway, as I said to Robert Hughes, I’d take the stuff that Oliver, Jones, and Icke broadcast before any of that crap the BBC churns out. And I wish others would too; the world would probably be a better place if more did.

      That said, it’d be very easy to make a case that attributes blame for 95% of the problems we face to “capitalism”, and that includes the gender stuff, energy costs, climate change, the ongoing war, the handling of the pandemic, and so much more. But nobody is doing that, not Oliver, Jones, Icke, or the BBC.

      That’s the thing nobody will admit, the elephant in the room. And by not saying it, by distracting us with other stories and theories, that elephant is well served by them.

    327. Hatuey says:

      Scott, that’s true, they were berated at the time… based on the available science and evidence.

      Based on the available science and evidence today, the vaccines are pretty crap at supplying outright immunity in terms of stopping you catching covid, but reasonably good at reducing the severity of disease when you do catch it.

      That’s not circular.

      For what it’s worth, I think Pfizer has quite a lot of explaining to do in terms of massaging and withholding data. But you can’t blame that on those who assumed they were more honest than they turned out to be. We could say the same of those who bought into Sturgeon.

      What’s important in situations like that, Scott, is that you learn from your mistakes.

      😐

    328. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      15 August, 2022 at 12:46 am

      Scott, that’s true, they were berated at the time… based on the available science and evidence.

      Based on the available science and evidence today, the vaccines are pretty crap at supplying outright immunity in terms of stopping you catching covid, but reasonably good at reducing the severity of disease when you do catch it.

      That’s not circular.

      If you put ‘side effects’ and ‘the logic of those you opposed at the time’ back in, it most certainly is.

      ‘Forget that they lied (a bit) back then, they aren’t lying now’ – that’s you, that is.

      Fuck off.

    329. Scott says:

      JFC on Covid

      I can’t wear a mask, haven’t been vaccinated and have yet to test positive.

      My routine hasn’t changed beyond not being able to go to Tesco at 3am during lockdowns, which is permanent because *checks notes* it wasn’t paying to keep it open 24/7 as it had been since it opened, meaning *checks notes again so I don’t mislead any alert readers* the night shift were sacked, as a heartless Tesco worker shrugged her shoulders while explaining the latter to me.

      Great Reset is bollox.

    330. Scott says:

      And while am on a roll…

      Wall-to-wall telly coverage of the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

      Those who throw the ‘conspiracy theorist’ trope around never have it thrown back at them.

      And there’s a reason for that.

    331. Hatuey says:

      I repeat, there’s nothing circular about it.

      You’re essentially making arguments today in the age of omicron (which causes a much less severe form of disease) and applying them to a previous age when the disease was effectively more deadly.

      With a population of about 67 million, 163 thousand people in the UK have died so far as a consequence of catching covid. With a population about a third of the size, about 12 thousand Australians have died as a consequence of catching covid.

      As for the ‘public health messages that you accuse me of supporting, and the government handling more generally, you couldn’t be more wrong — the government got it wrong with its ridiculous herd immunity strategy and it cost thousands of lives, as the data above proves.

      My view on that hasn’t changed:- we should have gone into lockdown sooner, stamped it out completely, put the most stringent controls possible on people entering the country, and waited it out, like other countries did with much success. Doing all of that, as others have shown, would have been much less harmful to the economy, less disruptive, and resulted in less deaths.

      Where’s the circle?

    332. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      15 August, 2022 at 1:35 am

      I repeat, there’s nothing circular about it.

      TL;DR

      Where’s the circle?

      I don’t know where or when you learned to obfuscate, but the manual has a section that mentions the danger of labouring the point too long with obvious jumps away from the salient points of the person you’re trying to outfox.

      Linguistics is a branch of mathematics, so fuck off again, please and thank you.

      Have a nice day.

    333. Hatuey says:

      One man’s roll is another man’s walk in the park…

      Some roll… Some park.

    334. Scott says:

      I’m sure someone said that nobody in the international community cares about Scots law, and I know that he is now entitled to a concessionary travel card that affords him free bus travel throughout Scotland, something he’d not be entitled to at his previous place of residence in England until retirement age.

      And I’m sure his wife, who is slightly older, is delighted that Scots law affords her that right.

      The law today applies to all and sine die, but not all rights are equal.

      A child born in Scotland in 2014 had and still has the birthright to a concessionary travel card when they reach the age of 60.

    335. Scott says:

      If the only way for my identity to be recognised as a sovereign entity within a sovereign state is to wait on a Parliament in a place, that may not actually be part of England by the strictest reading of English law, knowing that Scots law cannot compel anyone in England to comply with any of its statutory or common laws without consent..

      The courts are clear on this, no order from a Scottish court can alter any order issued from an English court…leading to,

      The nobile officium of the Court of Session have criticised, in published judgements, being seen as the default way to enable children under state care in England to transfer to the care of a local authority area in Scotland.

      ..UDI must be lawful, who’s going to stop us, the wigged-up pricks at the High Court in England? M’on then. Have you ever saw a photie of them all together? Fuck knows how they know who they’re talking to, speccy wanks.

      Up them, we’re aff. And we’ll have 2 years to work out how much credit we’re owed by the Bank of England.

      And them Scottish business thingmies LLnoTAX? that are secret and imposed can be unsecreted and all their assets held in trust for the common good of the people of Scotland. Cunts, some of them, definitely maybe.

      And it’s Scotland’s oil, and gas. And land, which is defined in law already. And that’s it.

      Have a nice day, and think, at least we’re not under 400ft of ice like our ancestors once were.

    336. Effigy says:

      There is an error appearing on this new link-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-great-terror/

      Is there any other way to see this?

    337. John Main says:

      Scott

      It must be comforting to believe you will get a concessionary travel card as a birthright. I used to believe the same about my Right to Roam.

      But as you know, that birthright was arbitrarily removed for reasons unclear to me, just as your card may one day be arbitrarily removed. The harsh reality is your “rights” are an administrative gift, subject to cancellation. Once that fact sinks in, it can be liberating. For a start, you might just decide to stop sitting around waiting for your “rights” to be gifted to you.

      As for Hatuey, he must spend much time clambering out of open manholes, as these being circular, he won’t see them or avoid them. It is only the evolution of less dangerous Covid strains that allowed any of the “successful waiting it out” countries any exit strategy. Otherwise, they would still be locked down, their rights destroyed, their economies trashed and most important of all, a generation of their kids damaged irreparably. And which are these successful countries, NZ, China? The “success” of their strategies can be measured by the popularity of St what’s her name in NZ and the permanent lockdowns in China. Some success.

      Still, Hatuey wants rehabilitation, so we can expect many economies with the truth. I won’t be forgetting his calls for the utmost sanctions against those who questioned the Covid orthodoxy at the time, though.

      Must go, got to visit my local high street, where it turns out that Covid is endemic, but is being managed successfully by herd immunity. Facts, eh? Awkward cunts.

    338. Andy Ellis says:

      @”Scott”

      I’m sure someone said that nobody in the international community cares about Scots law, and I know that he is now entitled to a concessionary travel card that affords him free bus travel throughout Scotland, something he’d not be entitled to at his previous place of residence in England until retirement age.

      The international community doesn’t care. If Scots law didn’t exist, if we’d never been an independent country in the past, it would view the mechanics of Scottish independence no differently than it does those for Catalonia or Quebec becoming independent.

      I am indeed entitled to a concessionary travel card. It’s great! You can even use it on the trams. I also paid more in stamp duty to buy a house in Scotland than I would have paid if I’d bought a house in England. You can thank me later.

      And I’m sure his wife, who is slightly older, is delighted that Scots law affords her that right.

      How very dare you! My wife is in fact younger than I am. Quite apart from the fact that your obsession with me and my family continues to be creepy as fuck, the fact that the product of your obsession is factually inaccurate tells us all we need to know about your bona fides “Scott”.

      You bigged yourself up before for having represented your country at football: was it in the days when they used heavy leather balls and that’s what turned you in to a heid the ba’ with neurological issues? It would explain a whole lot….

    339. PacMan says:

      Being a bit bored, I decided to look into Neil Oliver’s puff piece.

      Puff piece is what it is. It’s the simple tactic of going along with populations current anxieties and then subtly turning it by pushing the individuals own agendas.

      If Labour was in charge and implementing some of his solutions then he would be arguing the exact opposite. It’s ironic with his anti-capitalist rants in that he hade made a career and still does as for want of a better word, a media whore whose only views is what keeps him in a job.

      Apart from the nonsense about vaccinations and crashing planes into food processing plants, there are a lot of what he says that I agree with him even though I don’t agree with the agenda of why he is pushing them.

      It simply is a case of agreeing with some of things that individuals like these say but not don’t give them the credibility that they don’t deserve.

    340. PacMan says:

      https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/banks-offer-facilitate-russian-bond-052643924.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGoJrGc9XrNEtvuXNz0jJT4rai77N7JlMwjwyvJi0LMPMYqiszRe63DZmMSnFKTW62BfHdKo8GR7fNw8IPeGkfu1EBOId9z6S8V82-sNF2JfupbCiQBGLVY8xtYzSiFUPrReNqvCFh9fLNMqycmxKqzOQjLIrz3tcMWOG5iOCPGm

      (Bloomberg) — Major Wall Street banks including JPMorgan Chase & Co, Barclays Plc and Citigroup Inc. are offering to facilitate trades in Russian corporate debt and government bonds, according to Reuters.

      The move took place in recent days after guidelines from the US Treasury that allowed US holders to wind down their positions, the news agency said, citing client notes, other communications from six banks as well as interviews.

      Bloomberg reported on Aug. 11 that Barclays and Jefferies Financial Group Inc. were among firms facilitating a sudden uptick in trading in the Russian government’s local-currency bonds. Reuters also named Bank of America Corp., Deutsche Bank AG and Jefferies.

      The US Treasury stepped up financial sanctions on Russia by barring investors from buying the country’s debt in the secondary market in June. That means US firms can hold or sell Russian debt, but can’t purchase it, according to a spokesperson for Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control then. The rules apply to corporate and sovereign debt as well as equities.

      In July, the US Treasury said it will authorize an auction in credit default swaps sold on Russian bonds after banning trading in the nation’s securities on the secondary market. It also issued a general license authorizing transactions through Oct. 20 aimed at winding up Russian debt or equity trades that were made to June 6.

      Bank of America, Barclays, Citi and JPMorgan declined to comment, according to the Reuters article. A spokesperson for Jefferies said the firm was “working within global sanctions guidelines” to facilitate clients’ needs in a complicated situation.

      Deutsche Bank is trading bonds for clients on a request-only and case-by-case basis to reduce its Russia risk exposure or that of its non-US clients, Reuters reported, citing a source close to the bank. It isn’t taking any new business outside of these two categories.

    341. craig murray says:

      This may seem pretty random but I think this is the best place to start.

      Does anyone know anything of the case of Wilson Finnie, public law lecturer at Edinburgh University and man of strong radical opinions, who appears simply to have disappeared around 2008 after being suspended by the University?
      I am not sure if he is officially a missing person, but there does seem something of a mystery here. I have spoken with two people who were very close to him (one was his best man) and both say he simply vanished.

    342. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Robert F Kennedy’s book ‘The Real Anthony Fauci…’ was published almost a year ago so there’s really no excuse for anyone not to have read it, or at least checked the reviews.

      This link shows a typical selection of reviews – it’s notable how the ‘bad’ reviews adopt the same techniques of personal abuse, feigned outrage and deflection that we’ve become accustomed to from 77ers over the years.

      https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58063409-the-real-anthony-fauci

    343. Mark Boyle says:

      @craig murray

      It took me all of ten seconds to find his address and telephone number in Edinburgh. As the address in question is in one of the posh bits of Edinburgh, I’ll take it as read that this is your man.

      His “disappearence” may have been retirement on a full pension subject to terms and conditions arranged on the Q T – a not unknown phenomena in academia.

    344. Mark Boyle says:

      Further to Craig’s latest Scooby Doo mystery, it appears we have a rather mundane solution:

      https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=488508

      “But I’ve not got so much of a problem with the student satisfaction stuff- at least they do listen to us, which is more than can be said in other departments. Last year, for PLUS we complained bitterly about the quality of Wilson Finnie’s lectures and tutorials; this year, he was dropped from PLAIR. So yeah, sometimes it sucks, but it is getting better.”

      “Finnie was dropped from all his Honours courses too, he is, ahem, no longer with us. I had him as a tutor for PLUS and he was terrible.”

      Written fourteen years ago, this appears to be your answer. He was dumped after complaints by students as a bad lecturer and tutor.

      This sometimes happens in today’s academia: a once crucial member of the frontline staff loses it and is no longer able to cut it in the role to which they are employed.

      Decades ago, especially at the ancient universities, once in it was only resignation or gross misconduct which saw a Master lose their place, but in today’s brutal world of league tables and “Rate My Lecturer” they need to keep on top of their game forevermore.

    345. Fionan says:

      Thank you, Roger, your archive link worked. I know I am not the only one having problems in accessing Wings these days. For any articles. And Wings is not the only site which is being blocked by error messages nowadays. Several news sites are also affected which dont mirror the US/UK take on events and opinions.

    346. Ruby says:

      Good Mornin’ Everyone

      I’m wide awake this morning and thanks to Wings & Jamie Oliver I am aware of all the awful things going on in the world.

      I have decided to put most of them to the back of my mind ‘cos QFMD I haven’t a clue what to do about any of it.

      I suppose I could have a good old rant about it here on Wings but I’m a bit worried that I might ‘upset the flow of sensible debate’ whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

      I see no flow. In the last 10 of so posts there has been posts about ‘missing persons’
      ‘book recommendations’ ‘financial forecasts’ ‘concession travel’ ‘age of partner’ ‘more requests for help on how to access the Wings page that has been taken down’ ‘covid creeping back in’ as yet no discussion about the franchise but it’s still early.

      Which of these discussion will I join? I think I’m going to go with the ‘older wife’ discussion I’m getting the impression that having an older wife is something to be ashamed of.

    347. Ruby says:

      I see a problem with Roger’s archived link which is that we do not know why the article was taken down.

      Stu may have taken it down for legal reasons if so he wouldn’t want archived links to the offending article posted.

      Still think my idea to be patient is a very good one.

    348. craig murray says:

      Mark,

      Can you email me those contact details at craigmurray at mail.ru?

      Strange because the people I spoke to claimed to have looked for him. Couldn’t find him myself by google.

    349. Daisy Walker says:

      I read the article on wings that has been pulled.

      I get why twitter (which obeys rules only known to itself and its bias) pulled his twitter account, but I did not see anything in his WOS article to justify (even spuriously) the banning of it.

      Is this a forerunner of what is coming – articles that highlight the censorship are even more dangerous than the articles about what they ususally censor.

      I’m wondering if a D notice has been issued… but only in my head, and quietly, so as not to break any laws.

    350. Stuart MacKay says:

      Effigy

      If you go search for the link on google you can get a cached copy. However there’s really not much to see. The Rev. has a couple of comments on being more alert – it’s likely something interesting but I’ve not yet had enough coffee to figure out what it is.

    351. sarah says:

      @ Scott 14th at 10.57 p.m.: your link to Wings Jan 2014 “The Mars bar at your seat” is interesting – the Unionist’s vision of what Scotland would be like in 2024 is probably the same kind of thing they will say in the Project Fear2.

      Taranaich’s response on 28th January – a vision of a tawdry England after their independence in 2019 – is brilliant. And sadly all too recognisable.

    352. Ottomanboi says:

      The steady dripfeed of anglicization.
      https://www.thenational.scot/news/20656397.senior-lawyers-complain-thomas-muir-mural-given-english-title/
      Or did they mean «barista»? Mine’s a double shot macchiato Tom.

    353. PacMan says:

      https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldscotland.com%2Fpolitics%2F20629683.compelling-evidence-yet-kremlin-meddles-scots-politics%2F

      Another Jackanory story from the Herald by trying to smear the
      independence movement with the the tint of Russian involvement:

      A Russian who tried to lure Scottish nationalists to Moscow has been formally linked to Vladimir Putin’s secret police.

      Seven years ago Aleksandr Ionov told this newspaper that he was in talks to bring Yessers to an all-expenses-paid “summit of separatists”.

      Now, in the most compelling evidence yet of direct Kremlin attempts to meddle in Scottish politics, Ionov has been accused by American prosecutors of working for the successor agency of the KGB.

      The Russian’s efforts to get members of the SNP and other pro-independence groups to Moscow ended in complete failure. His summit was shunned by Scottish nationalists, who saw the Putin regime as politically toxic.

      Oh, and a bit of comedy thrown in as well:

      “It is very possible that the Russians underestimated the competence and political sophistication of the SNP, which had been in power in Scotland for eight years by 2015,” said Peter Jackson, professor of Global Security at the University of Glasgow and executive director of the Scottish Council on Global Affairs. “But I don’t think Scotland was necessarily a priority for this campaign, which seems to have adopted rather a scattershot approach to supporting and invigorating irredentist movements within Russia’s rivals.”

    354. Dan says:

      @ Stuart MacKay at 10.43am

      I understood the context of those be more alert responses from Stu were because there was already another twitter account setup (albeit one which didn’t last long…).

    355. Dan says:

      That should be SM at 10.34am…

    356. Ruby says:

      Dan says:
      15 August, 2022 at 10:51 am

      @ Stuart MacKay at 10.43am

      I understood the context of those be more alert responses from Stu were because there was already another twitter account setup (albeit one which didn’t last long…).

      That could be the reason why Stu has taken down the article.
      He wants to edit it and give us a more up to date juicier article.

    357. Stuart MacKay says:

      Dan,

      I was looking for some coded meaning. Perhaps that means I’ve passed my coffee limit already. However, I’m still not sure why the post got pulled.

    358. Breeks says:

      https://twitter.com/kevverage/status/1559112706447347713

      Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

      It’s laughable, but kinda sad too when you realise he’s being serious.

      1. Free Movement of Goods and services??? Poor Kev slept through Brexit obviously.
      2. Economic stability! Poor Kev still sleeping after Brexit.
      3. Pensions and welfare… lowest in Europe.
      4. Defence and Security… NATO’s anti-Russian mouthpiece.
      5. Net Zero Energy… Where Scotland subsidises the UK.
      6. Healthcare… where Westminster aches to privatise Scotland’s NHS.
      7. Democratically confident Union. Confidently running scared of a referendum.
      8. UK is a force for good. Emmm…. Where exactly? When? How?
      9. National Identities flourish, so long as the National bit is notional.
      10. History. Scotland’s 1000 year history erased by 300 years of colonialism.

      So there you go… the 10 reasons an arch Unionist is an arch Unionist.

      The poor lad is thick as mince but thinks of himself as an influencer.

      Even I could come up with better reasons for the Union than that… and I hate the damned thing.

    359. Dan says:

      @ Breeks

      Can you or graphboy mind this…

      https://web.archive.org/web/20140822022931/https://www.endurasport.com/about/indyref

      It’s actually interesting to read in that statement that even prior to Indyref 1 it mentions Article 48, as later discussed (2018) btl on Wings.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/serving-the-nations/comment-page-1/#comment-2408098

    360. Hatuey says:

      When Rev Stu says “be more alert”, it usually means the answer to a question someone has asked is in the article. I’m surprised nobody here seems to know that. I’m not going to go into any detail about its use in this particular case, but can assure that was how it was intended.

      As for covid and its handling, for the record, my position is 99.7894% the same as it was before, possibly 99.7893% (depending on weight attributed to one tiny variable that unscientific people wouldn’t even understand).

      That’s all.

    361. Hatuey says:

      “An inconvenient truth for angry (not all) Scottish nationalists – Scotland wasn’t a victim of the Empire, it was at the heart of it.”

      Guess who said it? No, not Ellis,… Anas Sarwar (on Twitter).

      I don’t disagree. By the same token, India, which included the territory we call Pakistan today, was at the heart of the British Empire too.

      India, from memory, supplied more soldiers than any other country in The Empire to the British Army.

      That’s how most Empires work. Examples range from ancient Egypt, all the way through the days of Rome, right through to modern times with entities like the Soviet Union.

      If it’s inconvenient to admit that, I am not sure who it’s inconvenient for. Alexander the Great maybe? Fuck knows.

    362. Ruby says:

      https://archive.ph/aTsxC
      You’ve got this which is the link Roger posted

      and then you have this

      https://archive.ph/4coyL

      a much longer article.

      Not really sure if I should be posting these archived links but I suppose Stu can delete if necessary.

      The way I found the longer article was to click on recent post The Great Terror in Rogers link.

    363. Ruby says:

      Just ignore my last post.

      Sorry I just wasn’t patient enough!

    364. Stuart MacKay says:

      Why are the pro-Union arguments so dismal? It’s like they can’t be bothered. That there are no good reasons for the Union is not a good enough excuse. The best I could come up with, after only a few minutes is:

      Greater job opportunities (for English only speakers) within the UK than in the rest of Europe. A hard border with England would limit or eliminate this.

      Sure, it’s pretty much the same as his #1 but the effect is more tangible. In any case the rise in remote working, to a large extent, negates this.

      Hague is pretty much a hard-core Unionist so you’d think his list would be a little better researched and have more compelling examples. Take #5 Net-zero, independence would mean we’d probably be net-zero from Day One. As for #8 Hague seems a little confused on his history. Independence would ensure we’d never be involved in schemes to shoot brown people and steal their resources, ever again.

      Is this just down to the simple arrogance of “British is Best”?

    365. Scott says:

      Hatuey says:
      15 August, 2022 at 1:18 pm

      “An inconvenient truth for angry (not all) Scottish nationalists – Scotland wasn’t a victim of the Empire, it was at the heart of it.”

      Guess who said it? No, not Ellis,… Anas Sarwar

      You’re the worst quiz host ever. At least give us a chance to think. Eminem also said it, btw, whispered on her controversial single Like A Prayer.

    366. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      Yes, Scotland was at the heart of the Empire the same way India was, I agree with that statement, although the answer in my opinion is not at all.
      Both countries and others were abused for the betterment of England, nothing more nothing less.

      That’s not to say that the people in those countries suffered equally or benefitted equally.
      There were always indigenous administrators of the varying parts of the Empire, Scotland would have had more because of the geographical proximity and/or intimacy of England.

      If the ordinary people benefit at all, it is not by design but by accident.

      Perhaps I misjudge the Empire and it really was an honour to send your 4 year old son up chimneys or to be a Sheffield industrial worker where the average lifespan was 19 years old or be sent to kill mainly poor people in other countries.

      As I think it may have been John Main who pointed out, Scotland having resources is not the same as the Scottish People having resources.

    367. Hatuey says:

      Like a colony,
      Touched for the very first time…

      That’s correct, breastplate, I can’t think of one single example of a colony that didn’t involve cooperation and rewards for locals on the ground, often elites. Even Cortez depended on the help of locals, and rewarded them, before doing his Begby routine.

      It means precisely nothing and, in actual fact, co-opting locals is standard procedure… lesson one, day one, How to Make Friends and Colonise People…

    368. Dan says:

      Here’s the archived link for John Main direct linking to Guardian article.

      https://archive.ph/LTQE1

    369. Dan says:

      Sigh, ignore above. Posted on wrong thread as had two Wings tabs open…

    370. Breastplate says:

      Hatuey,
      I agree with you, that’s why I don’t agree with others who say Scotland or India benefitted from the Empire, some Scottish people did and some Indian people did but the people of these countries in general were not beneficiaries.

    371. Geri says:

      Wings regards water ice lollies.
      £1. Shop.

      Pack of 40 fruit shoot ice poles. Freeze yourself at home. £2 if I remember correctly.

      They even do next day delivery now. Yay! 😛



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