The Land Where Nobody Knows
Readers may recall that this site is engaged in an ongoing attempt to clarify why the Scottish justice system is choosing to selectively only pursue those supportive of Alex Salmond for contempt of court with regard to his trial, while conspicuously turning a blind eye to those in the media who have committed exactly the same crime but are hostile to Mr Salmond and therefore apparently immune from prosecution.
During that investigation we received a reply from Police Scotland last month stating that contempt of court is in fact not a criminal offence in Scots law (although you can be tried and imprisoned for it), and so is nothing to do with them, and that they only act in relation to contempt when instructed by the courts or the Crown Office.
So naturally we asked them if they had been so instructed.
TO: POLICE SCOTLAND
Thank you for your response of 3 August 2020. Some issues arise from it which I hope you will be able to clarify.
(1) You stated:
“Contempt of court is not a criminal offence known to the law of Scotland. However, it is an offence and, where it occurs, it is the responsibility of the court itself to punish it under its powers to take effective action to vindicate its authority and preserve the due and impartial administration of justice. Legally, a complaint of contempt is brought by the courts (a Judge, Defence or the Crown). Where the Crown considers that a person or media organisation has acted in contempt of court they may, by petitioning the court, refer the matter to the court for the court to deal with.
Therefore, section 17 of the above act applies, notice that information is not held.”
However, I also note that in a reply to Kenny MacAskill MP on 29 May 2020, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) said the following:
“COPFS does not keep specific records in this regard but I can confirm that to date nine people have been spoken to by the Police in relation to publications during and after the case against Mr Salmond. Not all of these persons were warned by Police Scotland but they were advised why they were being spoken to and may have perceived this as a warning. COPFS instructed Police Scotland in all of these investigations.”
This appears to directly contradict your suggestion that Police Scotland does not involve itself in matters of contempt of court, and indicates that Police Scotland does in fact do so where instructed by COPFS. Please therefore answer the following question:
Did COPFS instruct Police Scotland to conduct any investigation into, or communicate in any way with, any of the people identified in my original FOI request – namely Kieran Andrews, Steve Bird, Severin Carrell, Mure Dickie, Kenny Farquharson, Dani Garavelli, Paul Hutcheon, Magnus Linklater, Izzy Lyons and Dave Mackay?
And if so, how many/which of them were among the nine people referenced by COPFS in their response to Mr MacAskill?
We’ve just had the reply, and it’s quite grumpy.
The line about not naming the people concerned in the response is weird – none of them are protected by any sort of anonymity order, and they’re all journalists whose names are prominently displayed on the articles in question. Everyone knows who they are and what they wrote. There is no issue of “privacy” or “personal data” here.
Indeed, we already know from the Crown Office that it did not communicate directly with any of the Garavelli Ten to discuss whether their articles committed contempt. But now Police Scotland is flatly and for no discernible good reason refusing to tell us whether it did so on the Crown Office’s behalf or instruction – which is more than a little suspicious, given that we know it DID disclose that it had spoken to/warned nine supporters of Alex Salmond.
The supposed privacy objections are obviously particularly spurious considering that the Crown Office had no problems answering the exact same question.
(The COPFS response also happily answered on behalf of a third party, which is another of Police Scotland’s supposed objections in this reply.)
So if you’re having some trouble keeping up with this tangled tale: we still aren’t allowed to know whether the forces of Scottish law and order bothered with even the most cursory of investigations into blatant contempt of court being committed by half of Scotland’s newspapers, with combined readerships in the hundreds of thousands, but we know they DID take the trouble to personally visit a number of Salmond-supporting Twitter users with followers in the dozens, and a blogger who’s being dragged to court and threatened with two years in prison for allegedly doing the same thing.
And for some reason Police Scotland is happy to confirm that it did the latter, but bluntly refuses to tell the public whether it did the former.
We’ll keep fighting, readers, to find out why law in Scotland seemingly only applies to certain people, dependent on their political affiliations. We suspect it’s going to take a fair while yet to get to the bottom of it.
PS refusing to incriminate themselves…
you would think that the ScotGov would be interested in getting some answers to the questions you pose. In the interests of fairness and clarity.
Maybe someone can clear something up for me: What did the SNP have to gain from this crusade against Salmond?
What could possibly have been worth the massive risk they’ve taken?
Keep going, even if you get nowhere it still shows you, and we, are all still here and not going away. We all want Scotland to be better than this – and as with voting for independence parties – we’re not going away until we get there.
‘The latest survey of 1,008 Scots, conducted between September 10 and 12, found that if the pound is replaced with a new Scottish currency, then 42% would be less likely to vote for independence, with 16% more likely, while there would be no difference for 35%.
If a hard border is introduced between Scotland and England, then 43% would be less likely to vote for independence, with 18% more likely, while there would be no difference for 31%.
The prospect of an independent Scotland being outside both the UK and the EU for several years would see 42% of Scots become less likely to back independence, while 15% would be more likely and it would make no difference for third (33%).
Respondents were then asked how they would vote in a referendum with the question ‘Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom or leave the United Kingdom?’
After considering the issues put, 56% said they would vote to remain in the UK and 44% would vote to leave, when undecided voters were excluded.
With all respondents included, 47 per cent would vote to remain in the UK and 37 per cent would vote to leave.’
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093
I smell shite.
HYFUD
Hahahahahhaah
Nice to have at least one person fighting for what’s right.
Saga really of laughable proportions!
I am shocked and in despair to see yet another disrespectful
and insulting avoidance of responsibility within Scotland’s judicial
System.
Your patience and resilience in this matter has been astounding.
Little more could be done to seek the process of law and how it is enacted.
Humza just hums and spouts new unenforceable legislation of minor importance.
COPOUT is corrupt and unaccountable
The Lord Advocate does seem to know the law or care for but had a woman in
To do letters and save him any inconvenience.
The First Monster and Associates will be pleased the legal system can select where and when
The law should be applied to and to whom so they might just get away with their own crimes.
Is it worth going to see your MSP?
Would the Unionist Official like to ask these quests to prove we do not have a fair and equal legal
System or are they quite happy with everything as it is.
I know you don’t like petitions but would a 10,000 signature demanding a public
Enquiry do any good or will be more drivel like the Salmond case.
This is absolutely appalling and cannot continue!
The information on Contempt of court is incorrect. This may be helpful:
https://www.copfs.gov.uk/images/Documents/Prosecution_Policy_Guidance/Lord_Advocates_Guidelines/LAG%20-%20JANUARY%202018/2018%2001%2019%20Lord%20Advocates%20Guidance%20on%20Police%20and%20the%20Media%20v2.0.pdf
“They don’t like it up ’em Captain Mainwaring – they don’t like it up’em!”
Keep at the b****rds Rev, they’ll be hoisted by their own petards soon enough!
This possibly relates as an issue mentioned in the most recent report of the Julian Assange Hearing.
“Their primary concern had always been how to distinguish media outlets. If you prosecuted one, you had to prosecute them all.
[An aside for my regular readers – that is a notion of fairness entirely absent from James Wolffe, Alex Prentice and the Crown Office in Scotland.]”
Have you written to Iain Livingstone, Chief Constable of Police Scotland and asked him what his troops are playing at and if he was/is aware and if so if he condones or authorised it?
Only one Agency capable of motivating what appears to be the entire Scottish justice system against one man.
That would be completely anti democratic of course.
Let me think……
David Lyon says:
18 September, 2020 at 3:28 pm
Maybe someone can clear something up for me: What did the SNP have to gain from this crusade against Salmond?
What could possibly have been worth the massive risk they’ve taken?
It’s a question to be pondered.
And
How could they bear to live with the result if they had won?
There is a depth of wickedness (I don’t like that word but it is useful here) in Murrell and Sturgeon. The sort of wickedness engendered by people who have no progeny but wish their names to be immortal.
OR
They are too greedy or frightened to go for Indy and needed to keep Mr Salmond out of the struggle because he would usurp their authority and take that fight tomorrow
@ David Lyon at 3:28 pm
“Maybe someone can clear something up for me: What did the SNP have to gain from this crusade against Salmond?”
The only thing, I can see is the removal of Salmond would enhance the power of Sturgeon/Murrell and by surrounding themselves with more Trash Monkeys , they could stay on forever…With Salmond scuppered Sturgeon sees herself on the world stage being a part of the UK
Why are they asking you to phone?
David Lyon,
“ What could possibly have been worth the massive risk they’ve taken?”
Your question put me in mind of this article written by Stuart Campbell 8 years ago.
wingsoverscotland.com/?s=Groupthink
HIFUD and the Hootsmon Rag.
You can put that shite straight on the compost heap!
The beginning of the end for the Murrells. The scales have fallen from my eyes.
It would seem easier for the Pope to join the Orange Order than it is to get a straight answer from the justice system in Scotland.
@HYUFD
Any stats from SIU how these people would vote if they had to enter the polling booth whilst hopping on one leg.
There is a line in a Hollywood film where a character opens the window and asks,
“Smell that? That’s bananas.”
It’s a good job you can’t smell bananas in Scotland.
Remember the days when the SNP were the enemies of the state in Scotland. It seems these days the people are the enemies of the state, and the SNP are the state!
Nicola Stalin must go and take her man with her.
Surely Murrell is working for the other side.
He must be. There is no other explanation for his behaviour.
Jfngw
I think you’ll find that according to SIU, we will lose our right to hop except under the express orders of Brussels.
I would suggest that Police Scotland didn’t bother approaching the Garavelli Ten on behalf of the Crown Office, for its more than likely if they did they wouldn’t be so tacit on the matter. Of course I doubt that approach to the hostile journalists was as ominous as it was to the Alex Salmond Nine.
And if they haven’t approach the Garavelli Ten, why not, and on who’s behalf. Scotland’s media is no different form England’s media, both follow, and serve power most of the time.
We somehow got caught up in the notion that England’s government and certain institutes were the the only corrupt bodies in the UK, probably because they have been under our microscope for the last decade due to independence. But now we know that Scotland’s heirarchy in government and the Crown Office aided by a compliant Police Scotland are just as bad.
Its been a painful eye opener.
It’s about ‘keeping the rabble in line’. There’s no contradiction when you look at it from that perspective.
And the SNP since Sturgeon took over has been wholeheartedly committed to that task too. They openly despise ordinary people, for a variety of reasons.
As I’ve said many times, if Scotland and England were countries in Africa, you wouldn’t hesitate in assuming the bigger country was pulling strings in the smaller country and that the SNP had been co-opted to that end.
There is no Scottish Government, Scottish parliament, or Scottish judicial system. It’s all a scam. The idea of going down the political or legal route is pure fantasy — they’ll just cheat and change the rules, as this latest post makes clear.
How can you say there’s even devolution when a Government with 7 mandates can’t hold a referendum?
I should say that Sturgeon’s sister posted on facebook how wonderful NS was and how she was working hard constantly to take care of us in these trying times ( It was some such piffle) and hadn’t seen her dad
It seems pretty obvious to me that how you will be treated is totally dependent on whose side you are on in any dispute/disagreement or argument regarding independence. It is an obvious misuse of power and you are to be congratulated for your diligence and perseverance because it is deliberately looking like a black hole and the smell is rotten.
Extraordinary, and extremely worrying. Fine work, Stu.
Not quite off-subject, but I was researching the Mhairi McKie, fingerprint scandal, case of the late 1990s and observed a similar obfuscation and belligerence of the then Lord Advocate, Colin Boyd, who, pertaining to that case, argued that “expert witnesses should always be immune from prosecution – even if they gave false evidence”. It seems, regarding this high office, that rules and laws have a habit of being bent to suit the occasion? Of that occasion; the investigating Senior Police Officer, James Mackay, concluded that ‘cover-up and criminality’ had taken place at SCRO, however, the Lord Advocate ignored recommendations for prosecutions.
In 2006, Lord Advocate Boyd – Baron Boyd of Duncansby – was asked by Tam Dalyell to ‘consider his position’ and Michael Russell MSP insisted that Boyd could not continue as Lord Advocate. Boyd resigned in 2006.
In 2008, Scottish Justice Secretary, Kenny MacAskill announced a public enquiry into the case.
Our current Lord Advocate, at the centre of a further scandal involving the malicious prosecution of Rangers FC administrators*, seems to possess the blind arrogance of his predecessor in intending to carry-on in a similar vein, and acting as if ‘above the law’.
*”Crown lawyers admitted much of the prosecution against them was “malicious” and conducted without “probable cause”.
Regarding ‘kid gloves’ Press treatment of our current SNP hierarchy; I’m not remotely surprised, they’re biding their time in the knowledge coats are very much on shaky pegs. I foresee a gore-fest of headlines, a feeding-frenzy for lazy hacks, with no quarter spared when this whole scandal is drawn to its natural conclusion.
Independence? It might have to wait.
Kenny says:
18 September, 2020 at 5:25 pm
“Regarding ‘kid gloves’ Press treatment of our current SNP hierarchy; I’m not remotely surprised, they’re biding their time in the knowledge coats are very much on shaky pegs. I foresee a gore-fest of headlines, a feeding-frenzy for lazy hacks, with no quarter spared when this whole scandal is drawn to its natural conclusion.”
I’ll bet there is a shedload of stories waiting. The blood will be ankle deep in May.
Breastplate:
Point of order and pedantry perhaps but that article you linked to was written by Scott Minto.
Geez, I hope you never cross swords with Trump.
OT
I see we are about to be plunged into another unscientific unnecessary lockdown. Who on earth came up wtih this term “circuit break” lockdown, is that the actual scientific term because it sounds like something that has just been made up in some PR room, because it sounds catchy. For those who believe that lockdowns can actually stop the virus what is a two week lockdown actually going to achieve? It certainly won’t act as a circuit breaker because it is obviously still going to be there when the two weeks end, at best you have delayed it by two weeks and pushed the supposed peak deeper into the winter. If this experience has shown anything it is that lockdowns don’t stop the virus.
What we really need now is politicians that are able to hold their nerve and not make more panic induced decisions. The hospitals are empty and are full of capacity, we are currently dealing with a tiny number of cases in hospitals, any slight increase could be described as a spike, but hospitalisations are not increasing exponentially at all.
Stuart Campbell for justice minister when we’re independent because the barsteward NEVER gives in or gives up
The lack of love from many areas of the wider independence movement towards the Murrells has been clear for some time – both here and elsewhere.
I know journalists working for the overwhelmingly pro-Union media monitor what is said on Wings and elsewhere. Yet, they are largely ignoring the SNP in-fighting and the unhappiness with the ruling Junta.
Why?
Might it be, they are gathering their evidence, getting their worse SNP BaaaDDD!!! stories ready for a real anti-SNP push once the Holyrood election campaign gets underway.
After all, our side is not the only one that understands Napoleon’s old dictum. They are not interrupting the SNP while the SNP is fighting among themselves.
We need an early end to the current unsatisfactory state of affairs. We need a united pro-Independence side going into battle for Holyrood 2021.
Might have been better in the last thread, however.
Looking for info.on this Sue Ruddick and came across this. Stu probably has seen it, but from that quote, it appears every man, woman, and the dug at the top of the SNP heap was in on the action. When you think they would have been happy to sent the guy to pokey, for what might have been years it makes me sick, and at the money I’ve shoveled to them over the years.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8144545/It-political-witch-hunt-Alex-Salmond-accuses-enemies-fabricating-sex-assault-claims.html
Mr Jackson said a ‘huge amount of material’ had been obtained from a phone which had ‘been in the possession of’ SNP chief executive Susan Ruddick. He revealed that one of Mr Salmond’s accusers texted Miss Ruddick to say they were ‘currently convening [their] Spads [special advisers] for a council of war’.
Stu, once again thanks for posting this.
I will hold my hands up and apologise to this site.
As an “auld heid” I had hoped the constant negative comments of the SNP were unjustified, how I was wrong, (although they have many decent politicians who should not be tarred with the same brush.)
The only problem is, Indy Ref 2 is now on a solid ground, but the only party who can currently give any chance of a Referendum seem to be imploding.
What do we do now? leave/don’t vote for the SNP in droves, which will put the Indy cause back at least a generation,(there are many of us who wont be here if that is the case) or hold the nose and through gritted teeth vote for them next year.
The Indy movement is strong and has never gone away, but where do we go now?
The more I read, the more I understand that there is no rule of law.
Only the brutal boot of the Police, the Prosecution Service and the Courts. It’s a fucking animal pen.
High time that the pen turned on the animals. You cannot live, or at least live in a society where there is no rule of law, only the rule of systemic state abuse. People have found that out around the world. They found it out in Ireland in the early part of the last century, and again in the 1970’s it is a British rite of passage to be performed again and again.
Blood loss and a ruined economy is sadly all it seems that the British mindset understands. It is a mindset of conflict, supremacy and the subjugation of others.
At some stage the predators will become the hunted.
Whatever happened to ‘openess & transparity’?
It was all the rage at one point?
Not so, it would appear, if that openess & transparity is detrimental to say an organisations determination to destroy one man’s name & reputation.
Why do they want to destroy AS so badly and those associated with him? (or have I not been paying attention?)
Well done, Stu. This is becoming a civil/human rights issue.
It is also good that we are learning all this now and attempts are made by good men and women to clear out the stables.
I am actually glad we are not having an indyref now. If the FM does call one, I would be very suspicious that she was doing so in order to lose. She is such tainted goods that she would lead us to defeat: either deliberately or by allowing the unionists to easily set up the SNP (probably involving a man in a dress in a public place and the FM gets asked if a man is a woman on TV — while the Daily Record prints its cache of tweets by the Daddy Bearcubs and people from Stirling with coloured hair).
Is that policy of excluding Craig Murray from WM selection working? Can you imagine the fireworks if he were on the green benches! I suppose the po-faced policy of only allowing “safe” hands (Wishart, Blacklock) is working?
The unionist silence over this is absolutely incredible.
In an independent Scotland, we need to have a clean sweep. That is why countries have constituent assemblies and laws on lustration. Because you have to start from a clean sweep and simply cannot allow the politicians from the old parties anywhere near power. Best to FORCE people like Riddoch, McAlpine and the host of Yes people to be representatives. Can you imagine if we are independent and our precious country has as its first head of state “President Nicola”? God forbid!
Keep up the good work, Stu. Well done.
Hyfud @ 3.34pm.
Has “The Scotsman” got 1008 house-hold readers?
It certainly seems that if you are a MSM journo with a legal dept to fight your side you are left alone reqardless of what you might do. But if you are a ‘little person’: a blogger or ‘pretend journalist’ (See Craig Murray’s continued attempts to find out why his press card has been refused renewal) or tweeter then you are fair game.
It seems COPFS and Polis Scotland are cowards who will prosecute normal people but anyone who might put up a decent fight will be treated with kid gloves. It certainly seems that Lady Justice in Scotlandhas both eyes wide open and a hand out the back for ‘considerations’ from the rich or corporates.
Note the ‘considerations’ can of course include favourable write ups covering police or prosecutor stuff ups so us proles who have our heads in the sand may think all is well in justice in Scotland whereas readers of this and Craig Murray’s blog knows it stinks like a fresh midden.
For those who complained that this site was wrong to obsess with the SNP’s gender obsession
Would you like to know what SNP MP Alyn Smith thinks of those INSIDE the SNP who oppose it?
https://archive.is/UWfTg
.
Hi Stu.,
Very rare that I can say it but: “you are do this all wrong.”
The ONLY way yo are going to get the oil-smothered greased piglet andvery slippery grumpy police official to do their job is as follows…
Wings Over Scotland is obviously a Scottish Independence supporting website. So the answer is simple. Get onto your friendly SNP MSP and arrange a join meeting with you plus your friendly IndyRef2 suppporting ScotGov Police Minister + SNP IndyRef2 supporting Cabinet Secretary for justice.
I am sure a decent face-to-face with Indy supporting like-minded individuals will sort this wee bourach out in double quick time.
Thank goodness we all voted for the IndyRef2 supporting SNP in the last election.
I am looking forward to casting my vote in May 2021. ????????
I certainly hope anybody that reads your articles over the last two days cancels their SNP membership forthwith.
We can bring them to heel financially. We support only those MPs who are with us. We deprive those against.
We must act now. It’s up to you. We can still vote Indy or SNP if you wish, but we must make them earn our money.
This is a glimpse of Scotland’s future.
Protecting men at the women’s shelter
https://archive.is/x8VC8
You couldn’t make this shit up. The police have apparently been instructed to investigate who leaked the E mails.(breaking news)
No doubt Kenny and the Rev will be in the firing line.
Never mind the plot behind the e mail eh?
In spite of everything and how serious this matter is, not one person apart from myself has mentioned it on Wee Ginger Dug of other sites.
It’s incredible how they can totally blank this serious issue.
Just keep digging, best bit of journalism I have read in years. Thank you.
“We’ll keep fighting, readers, to find out why law in Scotland seemingly only applies to certain people, dependent on their political affiliations. We suspect it’s going to take a fair while yet to get to the bottom of it.”
Ach come on, we simply don’t live in a democracy, as is clearly being demonstrated on a daily basis. Our law and judicial system stand under the authority of Parliamentary sovereignty, so they support British nationalism rather than justice or democracy. Simples.
N.B. Democracy can not be separated from the Right to Health or the rule-of-law, as they are indivisible and mutually supportive strands of any healthy human civilisation. Scotland is being removed from this understanding of democracy, and there’s not much fight being made to prevent it becoming an irreversable reality.
British constitutionalism, which has historically articulated the tradition and ethos of English Torydum, is now under the control of the radical right. Time Scotland found some competent law officers who’re not bitches to the conventions of British constitutional practice.
THE FUNCTION OF LAW IN A
DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/234123055.pdf
You know, six years ago I stood in a Chicago pub on my 45th birthday and watched (supposedly), on the telly, 45% of the Scottish population vote for independence, with the other 55% against. Since then, and coming back here, my heart and brain has been broken by all this utter madness. I hope sometime before another 45 years has passed we get some answers – and independence.
‘Holymacmoses says:
There is a depth of wickedness (I don’t like that word but it is useful here) in Murrell and Sturgeon. The sort of wickedness engendered by people who have no progeny but wish their names to be immortal.’
😉
‘stonefree says:
18 September, 2020 at 4:09 pm
@ David Lyon at 3:28 pm
“Maybe someone can clear something up for me: What did the SNP have to gain from this crusade against Salmond?”
Not the SNP, just the creepy, cloistered power couple at the top. Remember that Sturgeon had to step aside to allow Salmond to be FM. That thwarted her political ambitions for a time. The idea that Salmond, a wildly more popular figure than her, could come back again and take the position from her, was clearly more than she, and her husband (who worked in Salmond’s office, and was – I would imagine – burning with jealousy and hatred of his boss) could handle, so they set out to destroy Salmond. Just my take, but it makes perfect sense to me. People need to stop thinking of the Scots as perfect, infallible agents of change, and being against injustice. We’re useless, stupid, cretinous, Machiavellian fools when it suits us, too.
I think Big Jock has it, my view as well
But if we know the UK Murrell is not the only double agent in the camp. Time will tell and expose.
@BobMack 7.35pm
It’s incredible isn’t it?
It’s fingers in ears and ‘blah blah we’re not listening, keep talking about something else’ over there. If you don’t mention it, it’s not real because it is far too painful to acknowledge. Simplistic stuff like Tories are the Baddies and Boris is the bogey man gets the troops going.
Maybe it is easier for people to talk about a mythical Indy Scotland where everyone agrees NS is wonderful than rooting out the rot and actually achieving Independence.
At the risk of appearing foolish has anyone actually asked any of the Garavelli Ten, if Police Scotland has contacted them on the matter, and if so what was said.
Has any of this Murrell-related stuff been mentioned on radio or telly? Anyone notice?
Time to put my head on the chopping block, but sometimes you have say what you think even though it’s unpalatable to others.
Why on earth are we wasting time and thought on this? There is not a snowflakes chance in hell of ever prosecuting the journalists over this as this is not what the law is there for. It is not there to get people who by some misfortune produce an article which if you are prompted to read in a certain way you might find out something that is in contempt of court.
The law is there to get people who know what they are doing and are intentionally using methods such as jigsaw identification to try and circumvent the courts instruction. It would be a waste of time and money to prosecute the journalists over this.
It is completely different with CM, who as part of his article about DG’s article, outed one of the women. This was not accidental, as he has attempted to do this sort of thing on more than one occasion. This is why he is in the dock.
At the start, CM said that there was more than one example of this behaviour cited and he only mentioned this one specifically. The thinly veiled parody comes to mind as another example of attempting to circumvent the courts instructions.
This is not a conspiracy, it is simply the law running out of patience with someone making repeated attempts to flout it.
So-called ‘Scottish justice’ seems distinctly colonial.
The hashtag #NoToYes is currently trending on the Twitter, loads of personal testimony from ex-yoons.
😉
@Bob Mack says:
18 September, 2020 at 7:19 pm
“You couldn’t make this shit up. The police have apparently been instructed to investigate who leaked the E mails.(breaking news)”
I don’t know why the police are involved. However I do know GDPR.
Regarding the leaked emails, if whoever is responsible for data security assesses the leaks as a security breach, it must be reported to the ICO (Information Commissioner’s Office) within 72 hours. Failure to report can result in fines – big fines.
There’s a ton of info but I’m not going to copy CamB and fill the page with documents 🙂
It’s all public domain if anyone is really bored. Just type ico in Google.
Socrates – Yes I noticed as well that the MSM have largely ignored the internal feud on Wings and other sites.
Normally one sniff of a scandal and Glen Campbell would be all over it. So why have they not stuck the dagger in?
Has Murrel bought the press , a bit like Murray at Rangers? It would make sense if he was working for the Brits. The objective to get rid of Salmond and the real nationalists.
It’s all coming together like a game of Cluedo. Salmond was never supposed to win. They underestimated him and the jury.
Now because he isn’t in the clink. Murrells skuldugary is being exposed. Pursuing the leakers of the Whats App story also fits in. Deflection from the content.
This stinking festering stitch up is going to explode like a tin of rotten dog food.
The press are part of the cover up.
A lot of ex-Wingers have some serious thinking to do right now.
I for one would welcome them back. (Well, most of them!)
Can’t wait to see Chris Cairns take on this in graphic detail with Alex Salmond in a loin cloth getting stiched up by Murrell and his little helpers.
I thought this might be of interest and perhaps useful. Only a suggestion mind. 🙂
What Exactly is Hope and How Can You Measure it?
http://positivepsychology.org.uk/hope-theory-snyder-adult-scale/
George Wood, I’m not sure that you understand any of this. A child could see that weightier issue here was the apparent conspiracy to put an innocent man in prison.
If you assume CM’s goal was to expose that much more serious issue, the conspiracy, the allegations against him don’t amount to much. In essence he is a whistleblower and like all whistleblowers he is being attacked for divulging sensitive information.
As for Wings’ efforts alluded to in this article, it’s my assumption that it was his goal to point out the hypocrisy and contradictions in whats going on, rather than to canvass for anyone’s arrest, which would corroborate the widely held belief that Salmond was the target of an organised conspiracy involving civil servants and SNP politicians..
The fact that the press and opposing parties are so quiet on this tells you everything you need to know. We now have a conspiracy to hide a conspiracy, it seems.
Thank the SNP leadership for all this.
The damage they are doing, to the party, the Indy movement, the judiciary, even the police, as well as our political system, is truly beyond belief. Hiding and avoiding the questions just make it worse, for everybody.
Perhaps a bit left-field but useful none the less. Again, only suggested browsing. 😉
The Fundamental Values
of
Academic Integrity
https://www.academicintegrity.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Fundamental-Values-2014.pdf
Has anyone made any suggestion yet as to what should now happen re Peter Murrell?
It seems obvious that he’s in clear breach of the rules on contempt. So, does the committee call him in to explain himself, or what?
What disciplinary procedures does the SNP have in place to deal with him? And who will authorise such action ?
How long can the other prominent pro-indy sites get away with ignoring this?
The more I think about what Murrell has done, the more angry I am.
What a disgusting pile of shit he is. If he is British agent, then I am not so angry. He would just be getting paid to do his job.
But if he isn’t a double agent. Then you have to wonder what kind of man would do what he has done.
He is deranged!
How we wish Sturgeon would just resign and piss off to join other ex-politicians in that USA lecture circuit. Then she could earn loadsamoney to make up for Peter’s loss of his secret salary.
“Tonight ladies and gentlemen I give you the former First Minister of Scatland, The Right Honourable Nicola Sturgeon who is going to talk on the need for honesty in politics!”
From Dreghorn to Denver. One way ticket we would hope.
It’s been 4 days since Wee Ginger Dug mentioned Nicola Sturgeon. Truly we live in interesting times.
Also @Ian Brotherhood, rather than mention the “ex-yoons” maybe we should take a more positive attitude towards for the ex-No-Soon-to-be-Yessers:
Likewise, I say to you, There is joy in the presence of the angels of Alex over one sinner that repenteth.
Big Jock 3.52pm, IanB sometime later
There can be no doubt now that Murrell is at best compromised, at worst working for the Union. If not deliberately he de facto is anyway.
The lack of attention to this on the BBC makes me think they don’t want Sturgeon rumbled over this. They therefore are either going to wait to damage her later, or, she’s one of their own.
I suspect the latter maybe the case, we will never know for sure in our lifetimes. Denial of a problem for the independence movement from a huge amount of SNP members and supporters online is a bigger worry. We have ("Tractor" - Ed)s right at the top. How did it come to this, very sad, but no time for wallowing. We may though need to change tack. A lot to be worked out.
Meanwhile get on a bridge tomorrow morning and show Scotland we’re still here. The majority, settled will of the nation. Getting there was never going to be easy.
@Big Jock,
They have to ignore it because it would crash everything they believe in or have believed. They have verbally abused many on this site for daring to suggest the SNP hierarchy was malignant. Now the evidence is there and coming forward every day.
They need to face the truth.
IanB Nothing remotely legal I could suggest at this moment
Now that’s what I call a WOS investigation.
Fabulous, clever, patient , accurate and persistent
It’s the only way to get to the bottom of it
Their problem is that they both say things that the other doesn’t
COPFS and Police Scotland are trying their best to avoid incriminating each other
But one is guilty and the other is covering up for them
Who’s guilty ?
Actually they’re both guilty now
If you knowingly cover up for a crime you become guilty
The most amazing thing about that Herald poll, https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18730273.poll-vote-scottish-independence-referendum/ is that “Yes” is green and “No” is in red. Clearly there’s some subterfuge going on to paint independence in such a positive light.
@Ian Brotherhood
1/ Hung up by the baws.
2/I think he has already been called as a witness
3/FM/Leader of SNP
4/ This sites owner swears so ignore.
o/t
Just looked at BBC Scotlands website and in a prominent position yep you guessed it Dross
Dross a prime candidate for a Test not a Covid test a drug test this guy is out to impress , he certainly has impressed baffled and proved beyond doubt the Pantomime Season hasn’t been cancelled along with Christmas this year ,
A Tory so out of touch with reality it’s a 50/50 call that he continues to be let out without Adult supervision , so deranged this guy is I believe he is a danger to others , he doesn’t so much as bend the truth he invents his own version of it , and the BBC in Scotland giive him a platform and I believe Air Time ,What a surprise eh
A bit of advice Dross only so much shite folks will swallow and your lot are passed their quota
Agree with others re other websites and their blindly clinging on to a comfort blanket putting your hands over your ears and saying la la la very loud won’t make the Tooth Fairy appear just the same as it won’t deliver Independence, sorry for bursting yer balloon
Scot Gov should have told the fricken BBC to go and do one,
should broadcast the Covid briefing through Russia Today and Al Jazeera,
dirty BBC gaslighting, `no you can`t yes you can no you can`t`.
@ Lukas Scholt post at 9.26pm
Yes, we’ll stated.
kapelmeister, do you seriously think anyone would pay to listen to her? She’s achieved nothing. I’d be amazed if one in a million Americans had ever heard of her. She represents nothing.
Lukas Scholts
Exactly Lukas. She represents nothing. So she’d likely do quite well on the vapid US talk circuit.
Interesting that Nicola recently agreed funding to the MSM. Much to most of our consternation.
Is there now a pleural relationship. The press have certainly called off the attack dogs.
Lukas. Come on Lukas she nearly stopped Brexit. In her imagination.
Regardless of what you think about all the bug-related stuff, check out what Eamonn Holmes says at 8mins 11secs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFqpt9UuKCY&ab_channel=ThisMorning
Large numbers of unreasoning SNP loyalists apparently believe that absolutely everything can wait until after Nicola wafts us to the sunny uplands of independence. It interests me, both for its utter lack of reality and for what it tells us about the hard of thinking true believers.
The thing is even in the – increasingly unlikely – event the SNP deliver on their promises, what kind of Scotland can we look forward to with that bunch of charlatans in power?
Look at the evidence folks: the neo-liberalism of the Growth Commission, the promotion of gender woo-woo, the campaign against Salmond, booing the very thought of discussing Plan B at their conference…..the list goes on.
Since the reality is that the SNP have little chance of delivering real results in a reasonable time scale, those who disagree with their political timidity and regressive control freakery need to start organising. We just can’t rely on the SNP: the current leadership is a horror show, and the membership – however well meaning – appears powerless or unwilling to effect any change.
If you’re happy to work as though you live in the early days of the kind of nation represented by the administration behind the attempted defenestration of Alex Salmond, which tolerated the abuse of Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry, which lacks the courage to act on repeated mandates, then carry on. Expect #indyref2 sometime in the late 2020’s if you’re lucky.
Those of us who don’t share your delusional magical thinking that “Nicola’s got this” have other ideas.
@Andy Ellis (10.28)
Hear hear.
@Ian Brotherhood,
I doubt many former Wingers may return. There are many large show on show among them such as Schrodingers and Petra. I do not think they have What it takes to admit they were wrong.
That’s sad in itself ,but much sadder that an Independent Scotland would be run by megalomaniacs who have unconditional support from these people.
Of such fabric are dictstorships sewn.
Well done Stu. You have got to be the bravest supporter of Indy I know. I think I will moved to Bath. There must be something in the water!.
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the ("Tractor" - Ed) moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.” Cicero
i hope folk don’t think I’m trying to lay the law down, apart from when I am, of course. 🙂
I am very aware of the poor coordination of response, the additional loss of lives, and the poor quality of public service messaging, which Eamonn Holmes only highlights. And I don’t want to cause friction but this is a situation I’m trained for.
Public health management prioritises the security of public health, so that public health may be enjoyed. We faced and still face the potential of a pandemic, and the Tories have made a balls of it, as par.
This is an evolving disaster and these associated losses in life are only adding to those lost in the Tory war against public health. And we have been sacrificed to remain under these clowns. Apparently.
Multidisciplinary research priorities for the COVID-19 pandemic: a call for action for mental health science
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30168-1/fulltext
@Stuart MacKay says:
18 September, 2020 at 9:51 pm
” “Yes” is green and “No” is in red. Clearly there’s some subterfuge going on to paint independence in such a positive light.”
Nothing so dramatic. Green is commonly used for “Yes” and red for “No” in infographics and data presentation. The media have this drilled into them from the start.
Green is almost universally used for symbols that represent safety or positives. Red is a danger signal.
Bit confusing as Blue seems to be the new warning colour in the UK… no idea why 🙂
Anyway, Mr Wings, we have no need to worry because Mr Murrell thinks that his messages should be investigated at Holyrood.
Gary 45% @6.12
That’s very decent of ye to say Gary…..hopefully we can get it all sorted out and keep Independence itself above the fray .
This politics thing is a midden right enough and if we’ve to take anything away from it all , its never take yer eyes of any of them….
@ Andy Ellis
‘Since the reality is that the SNP have little chance of delivering real results in a reasonable time scale, those who disagree with their political timidity and regressive control freakery need to start organising. We just can’t rely on the SNP: the current leadership is a horror show, and the membership – however well meaning – appears powerless or unwilling to effect any change.
If you’re happy to work as though you live in the early days of the kind of nation represented by the administration behind the attempted defenestration of Alex Salmond, which tolerated the abuse of Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry, which lacks the courage to act on repeated mandates, then carry on. Expect #indyref2 sometime in the late 2020’s if you’re lucky.
Those of us who don’t share your delusional magical thinking that “Nicola’s got this” have other ideas.’
Yep, support for Indy over 60% by years end, because – we can do so much better than Boris.
And why do we campaign for Indy now and get support for indy over 60% by years end – because, it provides common ground for all Yessers, and it needs doing anyway, and we’re running out of time, and it puts power to the elbow of whoever is in charge of the SNP, and for the Sturginista loyalists – the penny might drop eventually – but we will not have dropped the baton while the evidence is still seeping out.
The bigger picture is in winning over the bulk of the Scottish voters to YES, and to ensuring we have electable reps ready to deliver a plebicite vote for Indy at Holyrood Election.
And I appreciate my approach might irritate some, but it’s a very long time since I was trained to use public law discourse to promote heath and social well-being. It’s taken me a long time to remember who I am professionally, as I’ve lived a lot since that stage of my life and don’t define myself through my education. I’m not a diddy though, or looking to oppress and deny anyone their rights. Just the opposite.
Max Plank Yearbook of United Nations Law, Volume 7, 203, 261-328
The Prospects of 21st Century Constitutionalism
https://www.mpil.de/files/pdf3/mpunyb_cottier_hertig_7.pdf
sorry….that’s Volume 7, 2003, not 203.
European Public Law
Article 6 ECHR, Civil Rights and the Enduring Role of the Common Law
https://pure.qub.ac.uk/files/8586270/Article_6_ECHR.pdf
OT
A US Supreme Court Judge has died…..opening the door for Trump to appointing a right wing religious nutter and load their court predominantly to the right!
And we think we’ve got court problems…..
2020…. whit a bastard of a year
Daisy Walker @ 12.56
I think yer right Daisy….it’s about all we can do and no matter what Independence is bigger than any one Scot.
I’d just say thank goodness we’ve the Rev and people like him who will warn us,imagine this coming as a bolt from the blue at a time of the British Nationalists Media choosing…. fore warned is forarmed I’d say!
@Lizg says:
19 September, 2020 at 1:33 am
“2020…. whit a bastard of a year”
And it’s only September… 🙂
Beaker @ 1.04
Don’t….. 🙂
So I hope folk can accommodate my distaste for the legal pseudo-science that claims authority over us, through law and practice that is extremely prejudiced against public health ethics and international law.
http://iglp.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/Sircar_Commentary.pdf
I didn’t mean to leave folk on a downer but someone has to look out for Scotland’s legal rights, as our law officers don’t appear concerned.
Happiness & Subjective Well-Being, 01-09-2020
The Philosophy of Happiness in Life (+ Aristotle’s View)
https://positivepsychology.com/philosophy-of-happiness/
well, well,well, the judicial system in scotland not playing by the rules and some people are surprised.
I have taken them on a few times and they have never beaten me yet, I have found the whole system to be full of liars from the judges down
You beat them by exposing their lies to the world at large, they hate a smart alec, but they never prosecute their own liars as that would not do at all.
If anyone thinks the courts in scotland are about justice, then they better think again and quickly, I called them liars to their faces and not one of them could sue or prosecute me as they new they could not win
Life is so sweet when you get these liars by the short and curlies and they can do nothing about it.
As for anyone getting prosecuted in the Salmond case, well, I have never seen an elephant fly, but I will have seen everything if there is even one prosecution in that fiasco.
Lizg
I take it you would rather have Obama or Hilary as the president
I wish we had a Donald Trump as our First Minister, you do not get to be a billionaire by being anybodies fool, and Mr Trump is certainly not a fool
Andy Ellis
We so called fans of Nicola Sturgeon vote for Independence not her or her many crazy bonker mad cabinet people
Why people keep saying we are delusional is one of life’s little mysteries as they will still vote SNP even if our First Minister is still there
That is the reality of the situation, its as it is, not what we want it to be but hey, times do change and people like Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair are eventually found out and thrown out by their own or the electorate
David Caledonia
That statement might lead some to wonder whether you are. Trump is a sexist, racist, narcissistic, authoritarian, bigot and fantasist, who has scant regard for the law and is a danger to American democracy and global stability. His sister, who is a trained psychologist, reckons his upbringing created probably the most dangerous man in the world.
The day before the big jamboree in Edinburgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened, Mr Blair and his cohorts decided to redraw the sea border between Scotland and England, this resulted in 5 oil fields suddenly appearing in English waters and that revenue being attributed to england as part of its payments to the United Kingdom, Scotland lost 5 oil fields and the revenue was not attributed to scotland, So Blair is a thief and a charlaton and allways has been
Youtube
The Stolen seas
One thing is for sure, Scotland won’t rid itself of this sort of thing, until it rids itself of Westminster’s insufficiently founded legal authority. The British constitution does not empower Westminster to subordinate Scottish needs to the cultural demands of English exceptionalism. Only privileging right-wing English legal culture over Treaty obligations does that.
https://jspp.psychopen.eu/article/view/1199/html
David Caledonia @ 3.26
Em…Obama and Hilary aren’t running for president David….Do keep up
It is Prophesied that one day, a talented lass or fellow
A special one with face of yellow
Will make the piece of resistance found, from its hiding refuge underground
And with a noble army at the helm, this master builder will thwart the Kragle and save the realm
And be the Greatest, most interesting, most important person of all times
All this is true because it rhymes. 🙂
https://ideas.repec.org/a/sja/journl/v2y2013i1p228-233.html
Cristina Sâmboan, 2013. “The Role Of The European Committee For Social Rights (Ecsr) In The European System For The Protection Of Human Rights. Interactions With Echr Jurisprudence,” Perspectives of Law and Public Administration, Societatea de Stiinte Juridice si Administrative (Society of Juridical and Administrative Sciences), vol. 2(1), pages 228-233, December.
@ Ian Brotherhood at 10:19 pm
“Regardless of what you think about all the bug-related stuff, check out what Eamonn Holmes says at 8mins 11secs:”
His co-host looked a bit uncomfortable with what he said.
BTW Denise Welsh, I thought was excellent over the reporting
@DavidCaledonia.
Trump became a billionaire by being the son of a billionaire.
@David C – I read somewhere that Trump inherited 8 Billion, and lost half of it. A search is difficult because 8 billion features widely in more recent news. I did find this, which might not be objective…
https://themoscowproject.org/collusion/trump-organization-3-4-billion-debt/
Keep up the good work!
It strikes me that this whole sorry saga reeks of what has been called “decisionism”.
The estimable Max Steinbeis at Verfassungsblog did a piece on this recently in relation to the actions of William Barr, the US Attorney General which prioritises the right of the executive (generallly populists like Trump in the US, Orban in Poland, Johnson in the UK) to over-ride all other branches of the state:
“William Barr, the US Attorney General, uses his office to save Donald Trump and his people from having to answer to the law. This is known and well documented. Manipulating the Mueller report, fending off sexual abuse allegations, dropping the prosecution of loyalists even after they had pleaded guilty: that is what he considers to be his job, and he makes no secret of it.
This week, in a speech at a conservative college in Michigan on Constitution Day, AG Barr explained the constitutional theory which guides him in this. It goes, in a nutshell, like this: What separates the US from tyranny is the rule of law, and separation of powers is there to ensure it. The decision to go after an individual with the state’s full penal power is the responsibility of the executive branch and its alone, bound exclusively by the constitution. This decision rests entirely on the shoulders of the executive, and it is his democratic legitimization and political accountability which allows the Attorney General, unlike his supposedly “independent” lowly line prosecutors and public servants, to bear that heavy burden.
Against this background, it is not only not a scandal, but actually even a democratic imperative for the AG to remind the FBI agents whose agents they actually are, and to “interfere in investigations” in order to shut them down if that is what he thinks is best. Having the AG make that decision is also an imperative of the rule of law because it ensures consistency and equal treatment, unlike when each individual prosecutor decides on her own.”
Most chilling of all in our context:
“My hypothesis would be that decisionism itself is in fact what is most important to defend to all these people: that the world is suspended somewhere up there on one that decides. Thy will be done. In contrast to the web of considerations and claims to justification that covers the world today. To tear this apart and to push through it is the goal that drives them. To fight this would-be threat they are prepared to do the most monstrous things, to believe and spread the most grotesque lies, to tolerate and commit the worst vileness and breaches of law. Grab them by the pussy, break the law in a strictly limited and specific way, none of what is actually being said and done matters much really before the overpowering attraction that someone decides: ruthless, irresponsible, lawless.
Lord, have mercy upon their souls.”
https://verfassungsblog.de/matters-of-belief/
Can anyone think of a single thing that NS has done since becoming leader that the unionist establishment would have really disapproved of?
Never mind aggressively pushing the case for independence and exploiting BREXIT to the max, was she even a thorn in their side as they promoted more wars based on lies? Anything?
One thing I know for a fact is that the UK establishment really hate Alex Salmond. Because I suspect they fear him. I suspect the operation to take him out started the day after Brexit happened. They could not risk him being in charge of the SNP during Brexit. No way. Can you imagine how it would have gone had he been leading the SNP this last few years instead of NS… what a deliberately squandered opportunity. Taking out Salmond was essential to that squandering effort. Could not have AS coming to the rescue again… not this time, too much at stake.
And the press really hate AS as well. That is obvious to all.
But you know who all these folks don’t hate. Nicola.
In my opinion the media are actively covering for her. Especially in what they are ignoring. These revelations should be front page news in every paper. But they are being ignored mostly. A former FM gets stabbed in the back in the most machiavellian way by his chosen successor and her husband. The same FM who played a huge hand in elevating the husband to CEO of the SNP and her to FM as his successor. And they tried to send him to prison to die on bullshit trumped charges that they seeming orchestrated in cahoots with the unionist establishment, Police Scotland etc… It is a sensational story. One of the biggest betrayals in modern politics I can think of. But where are the press?! Looking the other way for some reason.
If NS was a real threat to the UK she would have gotten the AS treatment this last 6 years but instead they are helping her. Working with her.
Now why would they do that.
@DavidCaledonia
There is absolutely more chance of President Trump delivering Scottish independence than the present SNP leadership, that’s for sure. The offer of being made King of Scots would suffice, non hereditary as in the Scottish tradition, and only given to someone who makes a unique and immeasurable contribution to the nation. Independence would seem to fit – it did before.
I smell shite – oh hang on, it’s HYFUD. He farted again and followed through.
There is clearly judicial corruption at foot here but you need more leverage. You need to contact sympathetic MSPs to bring this matter up in Parliament and keep bringing it up until satisfactory answers are provided. Try Green MSPs if you cant trust any in the SNP.