The House Of Secrets
We’re sure most alert readers will by now have seen the purported “leak” of the actual results of the SNP’s mystery-shrouded regional list selections. While the figures are highly believable, we haven’t yet been able to obtain any corroboration for them being anything other than a plausible hoax.
The SNP has of course denied them, but they also denied our recent leak from the party’s draft manifesto and we know for sure that that was real. The trouble with lying all the time is that nobody believes you even if you occasionally tell the the truth.
Of course, there would be an easy way to prove the numbers were a fake – release the real ones, which is in any case the most fundamental element of transparency in a democratic election. And whatever they are could hardly be any more embarrassing than the rumours, which have candidates topping the list (and likely to get seats) on a shocking 2.4% of the vote.
Heavens, even Annie Wells managed 8.6%.
But there’s a much more important reason the SNP will never release the real results.
And that’s because if they published the number of actual votes cast and the turnout, people would be able to add up all the figures and calculate how many members the party actually has, rather than its absurd claim of 125,000. And however much they like to trumpet their imaginary hordes of new members, the SNP really, really doesn’t want anyone knowing how many people are actually in the party.
Both they and this site used to relentlessly mock Scottish Labour over its reticence to reveal its true membership. And we, at least, haven’t changed – we’re still seekers of truth and transparency. But the New SNP seems set on turning into New Labour in every way possible, and we probably shouldn’t be surprised at this latest symptom.
Yes your comment about the SNP slowly morphing into New New Scottish Labour is appropriate.
The solution like children’s nappies is they need to be changed regularly and for the same reason
Im sorry but i rarely say anything in here, i read a great deal though and if im brutally honest, ive got to say when are we going to see the all seeing great wings over scotland political party thats gonna take on the SNP and be the number one party, or is it a case that you have just become a wee bit too comfortable getting your yearly wage from your readers.
Am i gonna get kicked out of this forum for daring to ask an uncomfortable question. All i seem to hear these days is how bad everyone is doing and thats it.
Do we really have to look into the vacuum of Mike Russell’s eyes Stu? We all need some cheer on a Monday.
@Joseph Robinson,
Your on Wings ,not Wee Ginger Dug, so you can ask.
Panda.
The piece doesn’t say the New SNP are morphing into New New Scottish Labour, but into New Labour.
‘Bob Mack says:
@Joseph Robinson,’
I suspect that blocking is what Mr Robinson, in his illiterate way, is looking for.
Even if the highly implausible numbers of new members were true, they’d be meaningless without knowing how many members are leaving. I know I’ve been on the point of quitting many times recently. I’m just holding on in the hope there is some legal challenge or a new leader to vote for.
Give me some hope and tell me we are going to be rid of this f*****g awful woman and her cabal any time soon. I can’t bear what they are doing to the SNP and to our hopes of independence.
Not sure how members were invited to vote. I don’t appear to have any notifications.
@Angusthedug
blocking, kicked, blindfolded, all amounts to the same doesn’t it. Oh im very sorry for being illiterate.
Yup……The leaked list candidate voting figures may or may not be a hoax……But I’m betting they aint far off.
The definition of Discrimination is “the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, sex, or disability”
That’s crystal clear so by definition elevation of people to the top of the list based on their ethnicity or disability is inherently discriminatory.
I don’t see how it can possibly be legal.
What it has done is cement the resolve not to vote SNP on the list. In the NE I have not spoken to anyone in agreement with the candidate selection process. Approval seems centered on the Kirsty Blackman wokeists.
Who’se going to chap doors for them ????????
I am a SNP member but I did not vote, purely because I do not trust the current regime. I am not sure which Party I will be votting for in May.
The SNP are going to be preyed on by big cats in London, so I’d say they’ve morphed into Gnu Labour.
Yet last night Mr Murrell was still begging for cash. This from the SNP Members for Independence Facebook page. Some transparency from the treasurer could shed some light on this and how much the new 10k have paid
Received an email from Mr Murrell this evening inviting me to pay my £5.00 retired members fee two months early to keep the party ticking over. I have replied to the effect that the 10,000+ new membership fees should do that better than my small contribution.
I’m constantly amazed by how good you are at your job.
The revelation that everyone in Scottish politics and its media environment reads you first was not a suprise: nor is it a surprise that reading you has now become, in some circles, what used to be called, in some schools, a ‘beatable offence’.
Received an email from my SNP constituency candidate on Saturday saying, inter alia, how pleased they are with the huge number of new SNP members, that the list candidates are now known, and what a cracking list of folk they are .
In reply I’ve asked the candidate how many members ‘we’ now have, and why as a voting member I am being denied the right to know the votes cast, etc.
Will let you know the outcome!
Voting for the list candidates was invited by email, and each member had one secure opportunity to vote. It looked very much above board and secure. There was, however, no mention that some candidates would be given preference in the list over others because of BAME or disability claim. So if that happens, it could be inferred that the voter was misled.
kapelmeister says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:53 am
“The SNP are going to be preyed on by big cats in London, so I’d say they’ve morphed into Gnu Labour.”
Oh, you wilde beest, you.
Who knows – quite a tedious leak to put together if it’s a hoax, getting all those percentages to add up but to look plausible would have taken ages. Graham Campbell on 3.3% in Lothans… LOL.
I see that Emma Roddick (who got to the top of the list in H&I by self identifying as disabled due to a personality disorder) is denying that she only got 2 or 3 percent in the vote.
But what does she now expect us to believe she got? She was up against three well known, high-profile ministers, of course they’re going to get a far bigger share of the vote. And if long-term Minister, Fergus Ewing, got under 20% then a couple of pecent for a newish councillor who is unknown beyond inverness seems pretty plausible to me.
Does she expect us to believe she got anywhere near him? So if the leaked figure is not her result then what is? *tumbleweed*
This is the problem – if you keep everything a secret, it creates a vacuum that will be filled with leaks and/or fake news. What a bunch of amateurs. This is what happens when you put your woke pals of low intelligence and no experience into major decision making positions. Bunch of amateurs, the SNP only have themselves to blame.
Of course there is one way to force the SNP to release the results officially – take them to court for their illegal procedure.
It beats me how this rancid organisation have got ANY members left. Folk say, “Join and reform it from the inside.” How in the name of f*** are you supposed to do that? It’s a personality cult.
I see Humza & Co with faux outrage complainibg about a fake poll over the weekend.
Hilarious when we know the SNP are trumpeting 7,000 new members, without telling us that 40,000 left in the last two years, and refusing to give an honest answer to the question how many total members does the SNP have.
Hmmm.. Realistically, what kind of turnout will there be for candidate elections where the results are basically pre-ordained by the combination of the diversity policy and the leadership-clique’s jiggery-pokery?
Hi Ian McLean at 11:49 am.
You typed,
“I’m just holding on in the hope there is some legal challenge or a new leader to vote for.”
I think there are a lot of us in the same boat…
Joseph Robinson says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:41 am
Am i gonna get kicked out of this forum for daring to ask an uncomfortable question. All i seem to hear these days is how bad everyone is doing and thats it.
———–
I suppose you may at some point when you eventually come out with the line bothvotesSNP.
Why Joseph is that a good thing?
Joseph Robinson, do you have a point?
It is true the ISP or another of the so far disturbingly ineffectual pop-up indy parties badly needs a leader of some stature, or at least endorsement by one or more leading figures.
Whether Stu is the ideal leader is up for debate. He is an excellent investigative journalist, but untried as a political leader and, I suspect, even more marmite than Alex.
I am however interested in a discussion as to who should or could front up the ISP or AFI. I think many of us are very keen for this to happen, but there is no sign at the moment of any movement, not even any rumours.
A Salmond fronted or endorsed party has its attractions, it would be a home for the list votes of many who feel disenfranchised now. My hope would be that Alex or whoever would still suggest 1st vote SNP.
But Alex is probably exhausted and scunnered, so I think this would be expecting too much.
@ Joseph Robinson
Asking stupid questions once, probably won’t get you barred. Stu takes a minimal wage, which if I recall correctly he has put in the public domain previously, below average wage, hardly a comfortable life. His readers obviously think he’s worth it and more or they wouldn’t contribute to his crowd funders, often telling him to take an increase in remuneration. As to the forming of a new political party, he probably IMHO would have, if no other independence party had been created.
@Joseph Robinson he has never proposed a wings party, he just ask what if there was another party, it was wings readers that suggested a wings party. Which he very briefly considered as it was suggested then advised why it would not happen. mainly i think due to the field day the Union press might have.
I’ve heard it said that it’s mockery, not anger, that really does for an authoritarian regime.
How utterly laughable is this? Disability self-ID, followed by an election where asking to know the results is “conspiracy theory”? If they’d put it in Alan B’Stard, even Rik Mayall would have drawn the line. It’s objectively hilariously funny.
It’s early in the year, but through an amazing display of woven ring-fenced Indy Fund accountancy, murky manipulation of membership numericals, and other shamocratic voting exploits, The SNP have already been crowned The 2021 Numberwang! World Champions.
should say a list party only.
Imagine having so little self-respect that you were willing to go along with it, it’s just like people who vote Tory because “Rees-Mogg is funny”.
oh dear god.Will this please end.I really can’t take anymore.How did these cretans ever get this far?
Joseph Robinson says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:41 am
“Am i gonna get kicked out of this forum”
Joseph, it almost sounds like you’re looking for a badge of “honour”. I presume you’re motivation in doing so is to go back to some other Indy forum you’re part of (On Facebook, I’m guessing) to tell them all how you’ve been blocked by Wings, hoping for some virtual pats on the back. Am I right?
James @12.09
I share your pain.
James asks: ‘How did these these cretans ever get this far?’
As a famous Cretan philosopher once famously said, ‘All Cretans are liars!’
Secrecy is like a dog chasing its own tail, eventually it will bite its own bum.
On the subject of the SNP NEC officers elected in November – Sunday Times article on 6 December 2020 – ‘SNP’s Peter Murrell faces battle to keep his grip on power’.
‘New party treasurer Douglas Chapman MP has raised questions about what happened to £600,000 raised by supporters in 2017 for the next independence referendum campaign. In a podcast before his election, Chapman vowed that finding out, amid fears that money might have been spent on other things, would be one of his first tasks.
He also promised a new level of transparency, including the publication of a member-friendly set of accounts, that could lead to details of Murrell’s salary being published.’
Clearly, Peter Murrell won the battle over Doug Chapman honouring his election pledges.
Joseph – If we want to give money to wings then that is our choice. I know he spends the money wisely as he tells us. He is clear, transparent and honest. And is one of the few places in Scotland that tells the truth.
I have heard that the SNP membership is 50,000. Losing significantly more than half the membership is an amazing feat. Obviously the murrells are stunning and brave. Sadly they are also duplicitious, underhand, mendacious and Peter doesn’t let us know how much he takes.
Keeping your paymasters in the dark is a very poor long term strategy.
I reckon the SNP are counting the existing members that have told them to ram their membership cards up their arse, but who haven’t actually resigned yet, as new ones.
James Please! They are not Cretans (islanders who gave all for independence, fought for centuries and finally made it). They are CRETINS. Jut one letter but a world of difference!
And forgive me. I too made a one-letter mistake. Just, not Jut. Apologies
As for Emma Harper who has been boosted up the list ahead of Joan McAlpine:
Disability mechanisms are supposed to help candidates who would otherwise face difficulties getting elected.
This isn’t Emma Harper. She’s already had no problem getting herself elected in the past.
Secondly, we’ve previously been told that this equalities mechanism was needed because there are no disabled MSPs.
So Harper didn’t consider her diabetes to be a disability in the past? But when there’s an advantage to be had it turns out we did have disabled MSPs after all?
Also, now that we know that disability includes diabetes, using a hearing aid to hear normally, depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, Tourettes etc shouldn’t they have undertaken a new review of how many MSPs are currently disabled? Because there are probably lots now the definition has been widened and it could be the case that their disability quotas have already been met. Meaning there was no need for this mechanism to be used in the first place.
And if you think that’s the wrong thing to do as they don’t count as real disabilies, just wait till the 6th of May when they WILL be insisting their disability quotas HAVE BEEN met NOW because they managed to get someone with diabetes (Emma Harper) and someone with Borderline Personality Disorder (Emma Roddick) elected using their super-duper infallible mechanism.
I’m still getting emails and letters. Left the party 3 weeks ago.
@clanDonald
Interesting
Personality disorder
A person with a personality disorder thinks, feels, behaves or relates to others very differently from the average person.
There are several different types of personality disorder.
This page gives some information about personality disorders in general, linking to other sources for more detail.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/personality-disorder/
“I’m not upset that you lied to me, I’m upset that from now on I can’t believe you.” The SNP have become the new Labour party and Nicola Sturgeon is destroying the party from within and has tried to destroy the former leader as well and this is all unraveling before our very eyes, I could hate you Stu but what would be the point I wouldn’t be true to my self because I would rather have the truth.
My local branch has admitted to 50 new members and I heard from somebody in another that the number of new members there was only 7. So the rest of the whatever the big number now is are in the other 71 constituencies. If the total number of new members is 7000 as claimed, this means that on average there must be at least 97 per constituency.
I wonder if any other data can be found. If we add up them all up, we will gat a more accurate picture of the total.
I bet a lot more effort goes into the list leak than went into the leak to the Daily Record about AS.
Use your list vote. It may wake someone up!
So if you multiply Emma Roddick’s vote by Rhiannon Spear’s vote, then subtract Josh Mennie’s vote, add the number of times Sturgeon said “I don’t remember” at the inquiry and then multiply all that by the number of (claimed) new party members, do you arrive at Peter Murrell’s salary?
That’s numberwang!
@Unlimiter
Yep your wrong, only do wings, used to watch individuals on twitter but that was back at last referendum. Im just fed up to the back teeth of politics in Scotland. My apologies Stu, I was letting off steam.
O/T
Update on Peoples Action on Section 30
Dear Backers,
For the past year, you all know we’ve faced resistance from every angle, while parliamentarians, both unionist and pro-independence have pushed a line of “mibye aye, mibye naw” about the Peoples Action on Section 30. Trying to sow doubt as to whether it was or was not justified.
Within the past few weeks, the SNP came out at the leadership level and stated that it expects its bill to be challenged by Westminster and that it would “take it to court”. At that point, many of you will likely have heard a grinding sound in the distance which, in case you didn’t know, was the sound of my teeth.
Well, now we’re two for two. This morning in the National, Patrick Harvie, leader of the Greens said the following:
“If you’re going to have a referendum you really want everyone to accept the rules of the game. You want everyone to accept the legitimacy of that process. It would clearly not be legitimate for them to dig their heels in and say no never, no way,” he said. “And so I think the proposal to say if they continue to stick to that position we will test the matter in courts, we will take forward the legislation and test the ability of the Scottish Parliament to legislate without a Section 30 is a perfectly legitimate approach to take. ”
Just absorb this for a minute. “Test the matter in courts” and “take forward the legislation and test the ability of the Scottish Parliament to legislate without a section 30”. And of course the end of that paragraph: “a perfectly legitimate approach to take”.
That’s both leader of the two pro-indy parties at Holyrood now confirming that the question of whether or not it is legitimate for Holyrood to legislate for a referendum without a section 30 could be called into question.
That’s both leaders of the two pro-indy parties advocating wasting vast sums of money on what is currently already a live case before the highest court in Scotland. Each and every one of them was invited to participate in the case, but I guess it’s easy to do it twice when you have taxpayers money to waste.
Putting aside the fact that I am now going to have to visit the dentist due to the teeth grinding – we all know what this means with these statements from both parties – THE ENTIRE PEOPLES ACTION ON SECTION 30 WAS COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED.
It would be funny if it were not so serious.
There will be updates in the coming weeks as we approach the April Hearings, but until my next communication, I hope you are all safe and well.
All the best
Martin Keatings
.
Joseph Robinson, there’nothing stopping YOU from creating a new independence-winning party. Get on with it and stop being a moaning minnie.
My OH is a party member, but he didn’t bother ranking the votes, because we could already guess that Graham Campbell was going to be No 1 on the list in Lothian however anyone voted, and couldn’t see the point.
He’s currently planning to vote Green 2. I’m waiting to hear if any of the ferbile rumours consuming Scottish twitter come to anything, otherwise I’ll vote ISP 2.
You know you’ve reached a strange juncture when some members have to think-hard about voting for their own party. No shame on them, incidentally. Given all the evidence, their dilemma was to be expected.
https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1368835182355169280
Some people giving Mike Russell the time of day and the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn’t give him the steam off ma shite. He’s part and parcel of all that’s wrong with the SNP. He’s a liar and he’s corrupt just like the rest of Sturgeons cabal. Also as party president he’s currently busy firefighting and damage limitation. Sweep, sweep, sweep , nothing to see hear etc. The game’s a bogey Mike. You’ve been found out
Been reading for years, first comment. I am still a no voter, but I can tell you what put me in that frame of mind in the first place and it was the belief that what we are seeing now would come to pass. It is not that Scotland is too wee etc to self govern, but it is a small, rich, country with a policy of heavy state control and well developed, rather too easily altered, body of law. It always been my concern that in an independent Scotland any one body willing to shout loudly enough with a bit of cash behind them could more or less take over in the name of being more progressive than anywhere else, whatever horrors might be smuggled underneath that. Look where we are now, and this is still a only partially devolved administration. Imagine complete authority resting in the hands of the current Scottish government. Anyway, it’s just another perspective and I’m only being honest.
I don’t see why they would need to release the turnout figures, which will be different for each of the 8 regions, so overall membership numbers need not be revealed. All we need are the actual raw numbers and the details of the mechanism whereby the “raw” lists became the final lists.
Got a member’s update and the usual begging letter from the party last week.
Since I have not been a member for over two years….does this count as a waste of resources or just plain old wishful thinking?
Actually, I want to make another couple of point about Emma Harper being boosted up the list ahead of Joan McAlpine –
1. There were rumours this was why the entire mechanism was invented in the first place, including a report that someone at an NEC meeting actually said out loud that Emma Harper would go to the top due to her Diabetes. In the event it looks like Joan will be elected anyway so they’ve just done massive damage to the party for nothing. It’s Paul Wheelhouse who could end up being the loser here.
2. OMG, Joan McAlpine is a FAR better, smarter, clear thinking and intelligent MSP that the dunce, Harper. The lack of respect for high intelligence from the SNP numpties in favour of woke yes men is exactly why the party is in this mess. These are our law makers ffs. JFC. I tell you what though, if Harper ends up in the Health Minister gig the NHS is doomed, I don’t care if she’s a nurse, she’s a science denying, slow-thinking diddy incapable of any kind of strategic analysis. But she’s woke and sucks up to Sturgeon so she’ll probably get the promotion.
Any word yet on what Anne McLaughlin had for brekkie?
I agree with many others that the Rev is dramatically underpaid
and suggested he should at the very least be on the average U.K.
wage.
We could advertise his job-
Wanted- World Class investigative Journalist required.
Must be able to work long hours most days
Be capable of managing the worlds most popular political blogg.
No pension contributions or health care given.
Must supply their own IT equipment.
Will be vilified by the Media and 99% of U.K. politicians
Home may be ransacked by the police and personal effects confiscated
Salary in most years up to £25K.
No time wasters please!
Get a life Joseph!
re ClanDonald:
I think it was always or is likely that Emma Roddick will get elected the second she got bumped up the list if what I have read is right as the Lib Dooms are shoo-ins for Orkney and Shetland. It will be a dead cert she gets in if Richard Lochhead loses in Moray and that is well withing the borders of the possible.
I have Macpherson’s Rant playing away in my heid right the now “It was by a treacherous woman’s hand that was condemned to dee”
In the modern case it is by the hands of several treacherous Yoon women that Indy is condemned.
If you think the figures have been manipulated there is a mathematical method for analysing data that shows up such things. However presumably they know about that and some time was spent to make sure they looked right, maybe? How long did it take for the result of the electronic vote to be announced?
‘ClanDonald says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:59 am
I see that Emma Roddick (who got to the top of the list in H&I by self identifying as disabled due to a personality disorder)’
Do you know what personality disorder? Or is that secret.
Has anyone considered self identifying as BAME yet. As a disabled person I feel if you can self identify as disabled and the opposite sex then fairs fair.
I told the SNP to stuff my membership were the sun don’t shine long time since but the other day I received two mails, one from the local candidate (of the woke variety) and one from blinky blinky fire pants, worryingly both with application forms made out for postal votes.
They are probably still counting me as a member.
Not all members will have voted. I know this for a fact. So totalling the votes cast will not give an accurate picture of the membership. You need turnout figure.
Joseph Robinson talks pish when he seems to think that Wings has to have a party to knock off the SNP.
The SNP claim to represent their constituents, right now they barely represent their electorate, definitely don’t represent most of their voters (Who want INDY) and if these numbers are true don’t represent their members.
For years the SNP has coasted on the Independence vote, after all its why it bloody exists in the first place. After 2014 it could be allowed to sit back and accept the vote of the 2014 indyref – right up until the Brexit vote.
After that point from 2016 onwards – almost 5 years I should add – the SNP leadership has bleated about Indy ref 2 , while doing NOTHING about actually having Indy Ref 2. NOTHING. No white paper, no actual attempt to get the Indy Ref off the ground – NOTHING except whine and moan and try to stop Brexit.
Now fair enough try and stop brexit if you want but unless the SNP fields candidates in the rest of the UK it could not stop it. The focus should have been to pay lip service to stopping brexit while planning for Indy Ref 2. That’s the whole point of the SNP isn’t it?
Meanwhile Westminster were not only leaving goals wide open they were actually moving the goal posts closer to score and at the same time scoring own goals.
Yet despite what Nicola Sturgeon, Ian Blackford and co claimed it wasn’t Westminster who were feart it was the SNP who not only didn’t attempt a shot on goal but at the same time kept falling back further and further in defence giving territory to Westminster.
Do I blame Nicola Sturgeon? Not alone, I blame the entire leadership of the SNP for this and at the same time chasing divisive positions which have splintered the party and likely will cost it votes. None of those divisive positions (hate crime bill, self id etc) were needed to be pushed through now. They could all have waited until after Indy to be sorted out then. But the focus was on stopping something that was all about England and then stuff that will ONLY ever wind up some of the electorate who normally would have supported them.
The SNP have failed at the top level for both Tactics and Strategy. Yet they claim to lead and represent Independence – but haven’t done so in action.
Only bloggers are pointing this out, the Media sure aren’t and I include the only pro Indy Media out there the National who doesn’t seem to want to even cover the rest of the world properly to supplant the other newspapers of choice.
Maybe that was why Salmond was targeted because he was on the cusp of taking over the Scotsman and turning into to a proper newspaper again. I don’t know.
But I do know it’s not Rev’s job to save the SNP. Nor is it his job to save Independence he isn’t a politician. But it is his job and everyone else on this site to tell them they have screwed up when they do so. And they have regularly.
‘Prasad says:
8 March, 2021 at 12:57 pm
Do you know what personality disorder’
ahh
https://twitter.com/Emma_Roddick/status/1355964243179397120
I feel sorry for the good indy supporters of the Highlands & Islands and Lothians etc, having all these shysters top the List table. With these Wokeratti roasters coming top of the List table in most regions, it should make it easier to give your 2nd vote to the ISP or AFI.
Nosferatu taking the Covid briefing today.
@ Caroline Corfield
If I recall correctly it was 4/5 days before the list ranking was published. A trifle long for what was an electronic vote.
There’s some debate about whether there ever really was a Potemkin village but what we see described above appears to be a Potemkin political party. Appearance is everything. Yet the non-deluded can easily see what lies behind the facade. The growing evidence of the manipulation of basic political realities is starting to exceed the reach of the gaslighters.
But…
If your imagination leans towards a more Gothic world of nightmare and madness, maybe in a giant dark dusty loft within Bute House there’s a painting almost completely obscured by a maze of cobwebs. This work that legend alleges was painted by no earthly hand will remain forever covered by a tartan shawl and no-one must ever be allowed to see…for underneath…oh! The horror, the horror!
My close relatives with diabetes, who manage it easily and without fuss, would be absolutely furious to be classified as disabled. They have a condition, but one which does not materially affect their lives.
The SNP probably owes its growth to disaffected ScotLab. There was seemingly, in its heyday, more than whiff of the stalinist about the latter. That uncle Joe has transitioned to auntie Nicola should come as no surprise.
What’s Scotland’s equivalent of Siberia? Single tickets only luv…
Newsflash:
Production of elastic, false teeth and laxatives once again exceeds the national plan!
And that’s a fact!
Emma Roddick may not get elected even if the Fib Dems win in Orkney & Shetland and a further seat is lost in Moray. This is the stupidity of the BAME/Disabled list fix, in a context where SNP 1&2 is the party’s strategy what is going to stop voters voting SNP 1 & 2 in Highlands & Islands is the fact that an unelected candidate has been artificially placed at No1 on the list. The final list seat in H&I in 2016 was won by labour with 11447 votes. SNP’s list vote of 81,600 in 2016 would only have to fall by less than 2000 to prevent the party winning the 7th seat based on these numbers. If that was the case then the SNP would win only the 6 constituency seats leaving it 1 short of the 2016 total as a result of the fixed list. If we lost Moray as well, then it would win only 5 constituency seats and probably no list seats , leaving it 2 short of the 2016 total as a result of a fixed list. Let’s see if we can shoot ourselves in both feet.
@Iain More
It’s alarming that Emma Roddick is, almost certainly, about to become an MSP.
Here she is talking about her Borderline Personlity Disorder:
https://twitter.com/Emma_Roddick/status/1355964243179397120
Here are the 9 symptoms of BPD:
– Fear of abandonment. People with BPD are often terrified of being abandoned or left alone
– Unstable relationships
– Unclear or shifting self-image
– Impulsive, self-destructive behaviors
– Self-harm
– Extreme emotional swings
– Chronic feelings of emptiness
– Explosive anger
This is who Nicola Sturegon thinks is appropriate to be representing us in our parliament. The rules have been bent to accommodate her. Unbelievable. Nicola has serious problems if this is the kind of person she needs to suppound herself with to feel secure.
I am seriously wondering just how much dirt the SNP leaders with McCann & Ruddick in tow have dredged up on the SNP MSPs and MPs in Westminster as well as party officials.
That dirt clearly has them petrified of speaking out about what is going on inside the SNP, about what is going on between its leaders and about what is behind the divisive policies that they have driven during this past parliamentary term in Scotland.
For so many MSPs & MPs to not want proper open democractic debates held on so many topics, both inside the party at conference and in the Scottish Parliament, it reeks of something horrid.
Something so horrid that they are willing to risk everything the party once stood for to protect themselves instead of protecting Scotland and her interests.
It is without any doubt no longer the SNP I joined over two decades ago and to be honest it hasn’t been since Sturgeon, Murrell and Swinney got their hooks into the party leadership and performed a coup d’état on the NEC to neuter the regular members from controlling the party.
To do that either takes extremely robust policies which the party members can blindly get behind (of which there have been none since they came to power) or some serious career ending dirt on their elected MP/MSPs and party officials for them to stand aside while the machinations of Sturgeon, Murrell and Swinney rampage on.
There are a few exceptions to the above in regard to MP/MSPs & party officials, but they are in such small numbers they have no ability to correct the party.
If they speak out they will be deselected as MP/MSPS, vilified & ejected from the SNP and then very publicly smeared by the SNP leaderships contacts within the media, there is plenty of evidence showing them using this tactic previously and fairly recently towards members who have tried to stand up to the current party leadership.
Joshua Mennie 0.2
That’ll be Julie & Jessica then.
Theresa May has type 1 diabetes and it didn’t stop her reaching the top. In fact she was always very clear about it not changing what you can do or achieve.
Emma Harper, on the other hand, has set back diabetes acceptance by decades by declaring herself as being disabled due to it, now people will start thinking that it somehow holds you back and you need special assistance to get anywhere in life. Thanks very much, Emma.
I got encouragement from snp through letter box to postal vote also last week, I think they are being influenced by America,
Perhaps their membership rise is from illegal immigrants, dead people, or people whom have addresses that don’t add up,
God help us from copying another,
If you can vote in person.
OT – Sorry, really OT, but needs saying.
Caught a little bit of the soap when Harry and Meghan met Oprah.
OMG (I don’t like this expression, but for once OMG!!!!) did you see Oprah’s HAIR?
Anyway, if you need to take your mind off the car crash that is the snp – look at Oprah’s HAIR!!!!
If we can survive that, we can survive anything.
I would be surprised if the true membership was over 9000.
‘Prasad says:
8 March, 2021 at 1:08 pm
https://twitter.com/Emma_Roddick/status/1355964243179397120‘
FFS i am being asked to vote for this narcissistic sociopath (see her twitter ‘poor me’)!
After the Sturgeon oscar nomination performance some analysis below, ditto Roddick
The Pity Play from The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout
https://www.thinkscotland.org/todays-thinking/articles.html
https://markrathbun.blog/2016/12/09/the-pity-play/
That twitter poll result yesterday with about double the amount of pollsters believed NS over AS, shows it is a manipulative trick which works. I console myself in that there is nothing to remember from the NS act so it will just fade away like the distant memory of a bad fart. Meanwhile AS will presumably keep picking at the legal issues, lies, cover-ups and contradictions which haven’t been answered. Not one.
This isn’t a AS v NS issue it is fact v feelings. Now what does that remind me of?
There is no way that this leaked result list is true. There absolutely no way that Emma Roddick is popular enough to get 2.4% of the vote. If COVID-19 was on the ballot, it would have beaten her!
Nice to see that she has her priorities right and tweeting about her sexuality again instead of independence. Thankfully I have now resigned from the party as I am not going to be associated with the shit show that she is going to put on. I will vote for Fergus but no SNP vote in the regional list after seeing her on the top of the ballot. Everyone I know is doing the same. The parry has yet again shot itself in the foot and doing everything it can to piss off their core membership.
Once you realise you’re voting for Scotland’s Transactivists And Scotland’s Independentists, suddenly, all the secrecy and strategy makes complete sense.
John Martini says:
8 March, 2021 at 1:42 pm
I would be surprised if the true membership was over 9000.
You are a very silly wee soul, aren’t you?
The idea that over half the members have left is patently ridiculous. It’s somewhere N. of 50,000 still for sure.
Why are you bothering posting your sad nonsense on here? This is a site for grown-ups.
Re Prasad.
Dont vote SNP on the list Prasad – simples.
For me it isn’t about AS V NS. Its about Scots Indy versus Yoonery.
At the risk of sounding like my granny, have none of these people ever done real jobs?
Joseph Robinson says:
8 March, 2021 at 12:36 pm
@Unlimiter
“Yep your wrong”
Fair enough. Just sounded a bit odd, asking to be blocked. But each to their own.
Re
people would be able to add up all the figures and calculate how many members the party actually has,
I got an invite to choose Glasgow list places despite leaving months ago
What I find most fascinating about the SNP’s new regional list selection process is that it’s pretty unlikely they’ll win more than one list seat in each region (in 2016, they won three in South, one in H&I and zero elsewhere). In other words, somebody’s chances of winning an SNP list seat if they’re not either disabled or BAME are miniscule. There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but the party should be more open about this fact – for instance by saying that only disabled and BAME members can put themselves forward for a place on the regional lists.
A party is nothing without its membership, surely the membership must now at least try to hold the SNP hierarchy to account.
We know via your posts that the membership is below 87,000, probably well below that, after the machinations of Sturgeon and her clique and her miserable failure to hold an indyref.
I predict the membership will fall much further, and that the SNP will not get the amount of seats that they hoped for come May’s elections, at best they’ll govern as a minority government, but that will be sufficient for Sturgeon, as she can use that result to point the finger of blame, and to put any hope of an indyref to bed for good, and get on with implementing her unpopular policies.
I will be surprised if Martin Keatings gets the final answer to his indyref question BEFORE the Holyrood election. E.g. regarding whether the Scottish colonial Parliament can hold an indyref without a s30 Order.
Inner Court of Court of Session appeal in April. Followed by an appeal to the Supreme Court. How long will that take, when the election is in May?
The result of that is you will probably be asked to vote for candidates promising an indyref on independence (yet again). Yet, the candidates probably won’t know if that promise is even possible of being fulfilled if they are given the mandate. (Just like Gordon Brown in the Vow making promises he was in no position to deliver).
But, it’s worked for the SNP for 21 years under Salmond, Swinney and Sturgeon’s leadership with their indyref snake oil policy. The indy movement have glorified the indyref policy. So I don’t suppose the SNP’s (and other so-called “pro-independence” candidates) version of The Vow is going to be changed when it’s been such a successful “jam the morra” (possible) scam.
Is the reason why Alex Salmond and the SNP previously agreed the s30 route was because they feared the courts would confirm the indyref policy effectively turned the sovereign right of self-determination in to a form of colonial servitude where Scotland’s people can only decide on independence (via Holyrood) when granted permission by the UK State?
Compare this to the (pre-Holyrood) pre-Salmond leadership era when the SNP asserted the continuing sovereignty of the people of Scotland and their sovereign right to dissolve the Union via the democratic expression of their sovereign power: eg Scotland’s sovereign electorate electing a majority of SNP MPs in Scotland is a democratic mandate for Scottish independence.
Sometimes I find myself thinking about the past, last saturday night I opened a nice bottle of dark wine from argentina and I started to hark back to the days of screaming lord such.
He was absolutely brilliant, stood every time and always lost his deposit, then it dawned on me, wait a minute I thought, maybe he did not die at all
After all we still have the Monster Raving Loonie Party, only now its called the SNP
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the number of people in Scotland who have died of coronavirus is about the same number we are told have joined the SNP since last week.
Credit where it’s due, I suppose.
Sutch, well, i am getting on a bit lol
Re Membership numbers. The numbers I have heard are that the SNP is down 44,000 members in the last two years. There is no way to verify that though but I trust my source on that more than I trust the present SNP Sturgeonite megaphones.
Re Prasad. I did say don’t vote for the SNP on the list. I would extend that hostility to the wokist Greens. Did Andy Wightman not resign over the nasty attitude of the Wokist faction in the Greens.
A zombie party?
Had a wee look at this Martin Keating’s Twitter account,,,and he seems to be advocating SNP 1 and Indy Party 2.
How the fuck can anyone vote for the lying scumbags who run the SNP? ie, Sturgeon, Swinney and all the rest of the trash that inhabit that Party???
So my message to Keatings is,,,
Go and take a good fuck to yourself Mr Keatings.
Anyone or anything associated with the SNP is Toxic.
#DoNotVoteSNPBecauseTheyAreLyingBastards
@Joseph Robinson
Candidates will be announced tomorrow. Then things will kick off.
The AFI are still claiming they’re still just an umbrella org for a bunch of independents. Beyond that they are Yes they can have any other sorts of policies. Also you cannot then vote for them individually.
The ISP manifesto is coming along nicely. Be out with out conference soon.
Scotsrenewables can’t meme.
You are the sad wee old man who can’t meme. It’s over stupid. The Sturgeon Narcissist Party has ended independence for good.
Most of the soft yesers are out and the middle class bitter brexit remoaners will return to labour.
No serious party in scotland is pro indy.
FAO all voters in the Glasgow Southside Constituency,,,Vote for Mr Sarwar of the Labour Party.
I know the Govanhill area and I know that the large Muslim community can spot a lying Bastard like Sturgeon a mile away,,, just the same as anyone else can.
You don’t need to be a white Christian to know Sturgeon is lying through her teeth.
Cut off the head of this corrupt Dragon by voting for Scottish Labour on 6th May.
Your fellow Scots will thank you for this.
Vote Sarwar,,,God will understand.
If the SNP are advocating self assessment disabilities for political posts. This could also be argued for Personal Independence payments and disability payments, could be fun.
FFS! If they weren’t going lift folk for breaking covid rules, they could fine the mucky twats for littering…
https://twitter.com/Grouse_Beater/status/1368851741714882563
@Artur Sweet 1:59pm
A good while ago, I trawled through every SNP politician (listed online) and predominantly they were drawn from; the Legal profession, Finance, Teachers, Health care, Carers/Social work and Career politicans.
The majority were Uni graduates and from memory only 3 or 4 had prior careers in the private sector (a car dealership, an engineering firm, IT and Fishing industry spring to mind)
There have been changes since then and there may be a smattering more of those who had prior ‘standard jobs’; so the answer is a qualified ‘No’, if you mean anything outwith the above list.
I’m not saying that’s unique to the SNP, but it was a bit of a boring trawl and I couldn’t be arsed doing it for other parties – they may well have a similar makeup. One thing was for sure, the pattern swiftly emerged.
If you suffer insomnia, have a look yourself, it’s fairly straightfroward; most can be found on Wiki, some elsewhere and a handful had no ‘Bio’ listed.
Anyway, Joiners with a City & Guilds need not apply. They are big on diversity, but by that they mean sexuality and ethnicity – not education and career path.
Re the get Sturgeon out by voting for Sarwar idea.
Roza Salih is top of the list for Glasgow. She is employed as an office manager by the SNP MP Chris Stephens.
I kinda get the feeling if Sturgeon needed a List seat and the List seat was going to go to SNP employee Roza, there would be some spurious reason why Roza was unable to take her List seat, making Sturgeon top of the List so getting the List seat.
There’s a question for Roza: Can you give your word if elected as an SNP MSP on the List, that if for some reason you do not take your seat, that you will NEVER seek election again?
Colin Alexander says:
8 March, 2021 at 3:04 pm
“I kinda get the feeling if Sturgeon needed a List seat and the List seat was going to go to SNP employee Roza, there would be some spurious reason why Roza was unable to take her List seat, making Sturgeon top of the List so getting the List seat.”
I get the same feeling. Who is the next “eligble” person on the list?
Lawrence@2:42pm
I would vote for Josh Mennie before Sarwar!
Just catching up with Wings from yesterday and today. Comments are getting more vitriolic towards the SNP, which I understand. However, I’ve yet to be convinced that voting for parties that have likened us nationalists to a virus or to Nazis and who see us as separatists from their nation, GB, is the best option. I’m very much open minded right now, but part of the problem with sitting in that grey area is that I’m not actually doing anything positive e.g. funding a strategy that takes us closer to indy, being an activist, doing something useful.
I’m out of popcorn , being facetious but I can’t believe what’s going on , and most folk aren’t aware
Geoff Anderson 3.08pm
Are you another mad mental Sturgeonista Geoff???
If not, why would you not take this opportunity to rid Scotland of the Evil Mrs Murrell???
@Dr Peter ISP
The AFI are still claiming they’re still just an umbrella org for a bunch of independents.
Yes they are, but I don’t see them trying to smear their opponents.
Can somebody knock this Labour shill ‘Lawrence’ on the head?
Vote Sarwar,,, God will understand.
I enjoy this excellent blog even though i`m English, Brexit voter and hopeful of the electoral prospects of the new anti woke Reclaim Party here led by acting aristo Lozza Fox. Maybe because we are so censored now.
I do admire Mr Salmond and believe you will achieve independence with him back at the helm. He reminds me of Farage, whom i`m sure most of you loathe.
I know plenty opinionated Scots down here, all great people, most think the SNP obsession with trans gender rights to be plain bizarre, to put it politely. And wtf is that hate bill that criminalizes “naughty” talk in yer own homes… please don`t give the fat worzel down here ideas !
@Lawrence
My God says you are going to Hell.
You will have plenty company
If you have the ONLY opportunity to get rid of the mist evil woman ever to inhabit Scotland, THEN YOU MUST TAKE IT.
The alternative is ANOTHER 5 years of Sturgeon and the SNP, only this time they will go into full on Woke Mode.
And you will look back at the Holyrood election and regret you never took that opportunity to vote out this horrible little Bastard.
If she wins through these elections,
THEN FOLKS,,, YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHIN YET.
This alleged incident at the Water Poet. Was it just Larkin about?
Orlando Quarmby 3.31
I have NEVER voted for any Party other than the SNP.
Sorry to stop you’re wee stereotyping dead in it’s tracks.
re stu,if the flaks heavy,your over the target. Why this man is not on national television is scandalous. His outstanding work is a glowing beacon to lesser journalists. If I ran a news programme on TV,I would get him on in a heart beat.His pugnacious style is perfect for the moment, they fear him.Scotland is ripe for the taking, if only someone had the balls to strike.
Lost £70, went back to the supermarket where I had had it, they had handed it in.
On a day when the news is full of Sturgeon, the Ibrox animals, and the royals (all as bad as each other), it is nice to know that some folk are decent!
Prasad says
Clan Donald says
Anyone know what personality disorder?
Hip! Lack of!
Just had a listen th that Gordon Ross in indy car. I have never heard so much shit and disinformation spew from the same mouth in so short a time. Nicola is innocent so he says.
No doubt when Celtic take back the league next year any celebrations will curtailed by the Hate crime bill- don’t be so cruel to the unionists who fly our jack. The polis will have the dugs out and many will be arrested.
That’s a certainty. Well unless of course Rev Stu thinks the DONS might win it. lol
Desimond says:
I got an invite to choose Glasgow list places despite leaving months ago
Reply
SNP Hotel California Membership
I am an SNP member and did not vote on a point in principle.
The conversation flow on here reminds me sometimes of the golf club member who always complains about the committee and says many of my fellow members agree with me [trouble is he has no friends and most members can’t stand him]
Well stand for committee and change it, is the advice offered
I would not waste my time. I have no chance against that lot is the normal reply.
What happened to this threat of the vote of no confidence by the Tories and the other parties, or was that a load of shite too?
Where was NS today?
Did she have an public appointments?
O/T.
So Patrick Harvie wants to form a pro-independence coalition with the SNP. I suppose it shouldn’t come as a surprise as both parties are ultra woke.
Watch out for a minority SNP government and the Greens running the country after May’s elections.
Breaking news…
“Crown Office give messages to MSPs which Alex Salmond says shows high level plot”:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19144636.crown-office-give-messages-msps-alex-salmond-says-shows-high-level-plot/
gullaneno4 says:
8 March, 2021 at 4:07 pm
———————-
Did some not recently try that with the NEC ? How did that fair? Is there people still on there with power who weren’t elected?
I expect an answer will come- acht you’re just a transphobe or similar.
Prove me wrong please.
They can hide membership numbers by not disclosing turnout.
As it is, I’m wondering whether part of the shyness is down to the actual turnout being embarrassingly low. Each region would, in a party of 70k members, have a membership of around 9k. Some of the %age results point to turnouts of a few hundred, tops.
Bob W,
I noted that too, it’s completely unhelpful from Dr Condescension ISP.
Carol Neill says:
8 March, 2021 at 3:18 pm
“I’m out of popcorn , being facetious but I can’t believe what’s going on , and most folk aren’t aware”
Couldn’t agree more. Most of my social media friends all seem to just post the usual copy and paste shite about “I Stand With Nicola” ….. and they pretend I’m not there if I happen to post the occasional article or comment that might suggest we should have a more sober look at things.
Mist001 says:
8 March, 2021 at 4:07 pm
What happened to this threat of the vote of no confidence by the Tories and the other parties, or was that a load of shite too?
——–
SNANEY
It is preposterous that a democratic party would not give out the vote count of a ballot.
I cannot think of anywhere else that it would be tolerated.
Today I have spoken with a number of Catholics,
some Celtic fans, but all of them were sympathetic
to voting SNP but after the policing non events across
the country they see SNP as a party biased toward football
thug unionists and now won’t touch SNP with a barge pole.
Nicola gets it for congratulating Rangers on their win
but nothing about repercussions on law and order being closed down.
1, Travelling out with their lockdown area.
2, No social distancing.
3, No face masks
4, Gatherings en mass
5, Singing sectarian songs
6, Drink Alcohol in public places.
7, Urinating in public
8, Littering
9, Obstructing a public highway.
10, Drunk and disorderly.
I think they mentioned a couple of other things but how
on earth the police claim to have been on any kind of
duty yesterday is beyond me.
For those interested I have never had anything to do with the old firm
as there are too many nut cases within each camp.
I have Uncles who support Rangers but would never go near yesterday’s events.
Someone at the top of the Glasgow police force should be signing on today!
Otherwise there is no Law and Order for all as proposed.
Regarding the article at the top of this thread, that’s transparency Sturgeon style!
I also hear she’s avoided the Covid daily update today? No idea if true or not but if it is then let me just check the facts here.
After a weekend of several thousand scumbags breaking Covid regulations (and in Sturgeon’s constituency), littering & vandalising parts of Glasgow, openly drinking alcohol in public places, running battles with each other and maskless group selfies with police officers from “Glasgow’s finest”, Sturgeon avoids the daily Covid Q & A’s?
Aye! Transparency Sturgeon style right enough. Oh! And did i forget to say her “popularity” has apparently halved in the polls too? Oh dear! The truth will out. She really has to go, for Scotland’s sake.
__________
Interesting, but not unexpected, news from Martin Keating further up thread at 12:36 pm via ‘maureen’.
Alphabet man
“They have happily swept this under the carpet. Now that I’m complaining about it, they are wanting to shunt me somewhere else where the process is harder.”
How easy the complaints procedure is will depend on who you are complaining about?
‘The Alpabet Women’ have set a precedent and there could be a whole string of ridiculous complaints against SNP politicians.
Serves them right they should have stuck up for Alex Salmond & Mark MacDonald.
Stoker -It’s strange that Sturgeon didn’t want to condemn Scotland’s shame at the briefing today. It’s not like they are a target audience for yes or the SNP.
The sensible ones who are already yes , stay away from these hooligans. The rest of the Rangers fans will never come over to yes. It would require a degree of cognitive dissonance, worthy of a serial killer.
If it is true that Patrick Harvie wants to form a pro-independence coalition with the SNP” @Republicofscotland says at 4:12 pm
Then I suspect:
1. The Greens are shitting themselves at the thought of an Indy List Party hoovering up votes and wiping them out.
2. The SNP are shitting themselves at the thought of an Indy List Party hoovering up votes and showing them up as a bunch of Woke Devolutionists.
Also their is history of this.
When busloads of Ulster thugs invaded the square in 2014. The police knew about it. They allowed peaceful citizens to be abused, intimidated and terrified for their lives. It could have ended far worse than it did , if the Yes supporters hadn’t been so peaceful.
‘Iain More says:
8 March, 2021 at 1:59 pm
Re Prasad.
Dont vote SNP on the list Prasad – simples.’
If i live in the H&I and want to support the SNP it would be good at least to have the choice.
As it is i am almost certain they aren’t going to get my vote on either 1 or 2 because of women’s rights. Andy Wightman seems to be two people (does he have an evil twin?) but a vote for the good one is an Indi choice for H&I.
It seems insane that the list candidate has a better chance when the constituency vote does badly. Wonder who will be the first to use this to their advantage or maybe it has already happened.
Jockanese – You are right. The Greens use independence as a flag of convenience to hoover up votes.
Patrick Harvie is so proud to be Scottish that he removed his saltire from his bio-pic on Twitter. He has kept the EU one and the rainbow one from memory.
Jockanese Wind Talker
Sounds about right they’re probably working out a deal in the likely event Sturgeon and the SNP don’t get the seats they think they’re going to get in May.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19142841.patrick-harvie-open-coalition-yes-government-snp-may-elections/
That is typical of her cowardly behaviour.
Sent her pal and enforcer out to take any flack.
I’ve just passed by a large illuminated billboard in Slateford Road, Edinburgh, bearing the slogan #sturgeonresign (or possibly #resignsturgeon). I wonder who’s behind that? Are they going up everywhere?
I certainly have a conundrum. I have Michelle Thompson as my candidate in Falkirk East. I think she is a genuinely decent human being , but I don’t want to vote for Sturgeon!!
Effijy
‘Today I have spoken with a number of Catholics,’
Who speaks like that?……you could’ve just said ‘celtic fans’ and left religion out of it.
You also sound a little boring – maybe you should’ve joined the pertaay, get out more, live a little.
@ Effigy
You can add in the willful destruction of several memorial benches. Would also have thought that would be considered a hateful action in today’s Scotland but hey ho…
I imagine that if just one of those benches had been pink and blue in colour the polis would have sealed off George Square, and Blinky would have flown across from Auld Reekie in her chopper declaring an international incident, storming the square yelling Begbie stylée. “Right, nae cunt leaves here till we find out which cunt done it”.
Michael- Tories are fronting that petition to remove Sturgeon as far as I know. So don’t sign the petition.
Dan – Is it a French bench – Masculine or feminine or a Scottish self ID one.
Lawrence 3.33.
God will understand ??
@ Big Jock says at 4:42 pm
“Dan – Is it a French bench – Masculine or feminine or a Scottish self ID one.”
Ooh le la les, je nae dinnae ken pas. 🙂
Lawrence 2.42.
How do you know the Govanhill area so well
You or someone you know from there. ??
Lawrence..I know the Govanhill areas too especially one street there..langside road..and they wont vote for Sarwar..lol
There are conversations happening up and down the Country where people are being asked if they have had, or are taking, the vaccine.
I suggest the quick-fire response to the questioner should be ‘have you ever had a sexually transmitted disease?’
That people think it acceptable to ask other people – sometimes with witnesses – about their medical history, is not acceptable.
Employers need to mind their managers to get a grip, or their Organisations could find themselves falling foul of employment law.
I would guess that Lawrence and John Martini are one and the same unionist troll. Just in case this isn’t obvious, what supporters of Scottish independence want is SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE, not the utterly corrupt, warmongering, unionist Labour party which thinks Scotland should continue to be ruled by the Tories. We might refuse to vote SNP until they make a genuine, cast-iron commitment to independence, but we will not be voting for parties that stand for rule by London.
https://caltonjock.com/2021/03/08/sturgeon-played-political-ping-pong-and-in-losing-betrayed-two-vulnerable-women-who-trusted-her-judgement/
Ms A and Ms B were determined that they were not interested in making a formal complaint about Alex Salmond, They expressed in the strongest terms that they wished only to be allowed a personal meeting with Nicola Sturgeon. On both counts the civil service failed them and they paid the price of failure.
We haven’t had any resignations or sackings yet.
Michel Laing
Give it a rest you paranoid fool. People like you put people off the indy cause. When have I have suggested who you should vote for or not?
@ Big Jock at 4.40pm: I think petitions are a pointless waste of time, so I’d be unlikely to sign one whoever’s behind it. I’m hopeful that Sturgeon will be subject to forces rather more powerful than a petition before too long. I won’t miss her in the slightest.
I’m guessing that Sturgeon’s enemies have decided that now is the moment for them to attack.
Sorry @ Boris don’t load sites that do not show prominently how to reject all unnecessary cookies.
@John Martini: I repeat what I said previously. You have nothing positive to say. Every one of your comments is intended to foment division amongst independence-supporters and Scots in general.
Has the leak been confirmed yet?
Bob W says: 8 March, 2021 at 5:22 pm
Sorry @ Boris don’t load sites that do not show prominently how to reject all unnecessary cookies
Now that I do not understand
Michel Laing
The division is already there. The whole thing is a mess. Even a new salmond and cherry party would have to acknowledge that a referendum is a long way off.
You ate going to have to make a nrw case for indy thanks to sturgeon et al.
@Hatuey 8 March, 2021 at 2:13 pm
“I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that the number of people in Scotland who have died of coronavirus is about the same number we are told have joined the SNP since last week.
Credit where it’s due, I suppose.”
No credit for not being properly informed, the number of dead so far in Scotland from the Rona is more than 9580
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland
As a pensioner I am getting heartily sick of reading about all that is bad with the SNP. We are a matter of weeks away from the most important Scottish election EVER. This constant barrage of SNP bad from wings is not what I give my yearly fiver or so from my pension for. Surely this can all wait until after the election.
Let us get back to basics and start attacking the real enemy in Scotland – the unionists of all colours and none, and not the ONLY party that has a chance of seeing us get our independence within my lifetime…
@joseph Robinson
He’s a blogger. He’s not a politician. He’s previously said that he doesn’t want to be an MSP because of all the work or whatever, but the truth is: NO WAY does he have what it takes to be a politician. Politicians need to represent all people. Stuart Campbell represents himself, everyone else can go to hell, especially those who don’t align with his bigoted and polarized stances. Politicians need tact – he has none. Politicians need to argue respectfully from fact and rationale, he calls people nasty names and if you don’t agree: “shut up, idiot.” Such a person who continually fans the flames of hate cannot be a unifying character. He can’t unify wings readership let alone Scotland. He has none of the qualities of a political leader, and has no chance of being elected.
He’s a decent blogger though.
Don
Did you say over over 9000? Be very careful or Michael will give you the ban hammer.
Are you claiming they are registering dead people like the democrats in america?
Dunks @ 5.32pm
You are missing the point Dunks. All on here (except trolls) want independence but the SNP has been taken over by a cabal who are only interested in maintaining their position and income. The last thing they want is independence and at the moment they ARE the real enemy. We need rid of them first then we can concentrate on the unionists.
Interesting comment btl on Iain Lawson’s blog. The commenter points out that his constituency party allegedly has fifty new members. Another commenter adds that his apparently has seven new members. So that means that the other constituencies must have had 140 members, which means these commenters just so happen to have been in constituencies with exceptionally low numbers of new members…hmm…
@Boris
I could see no way to reject tracking cookies on the site for which you posted a link – caltonjock.com
@dunks says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:32 pm
“Surely this can all wait until after the election.”
Dunks, that is the worst argument to use.
How will you sort things out after an election if the same people are still in control? If anything, it makes them even harder to dislodge.
Dunks, good luck with getting the current cabal in charge of the SNP moving on Indy, however if you want to be thrown in jail for seven years for saying in your own home that there are only two sexes then Nicola is your man.
Michel laing 5.02.
It is Lawrence who is telling the Govanhill people how to vote….think Ronald Fraser is one of the same..
Sorry, an average of 140 members
@Boris
My first post missed (I) before ‘don’t’ I was not saying you shouldn’t post links.
Stoker and Ian Brotherhood I commented the same over on Iain Lawsons site, Saint Nicla avoiding her daily covid queen adoring fans due to the possibility that she might be faced with uncomfortable truths , instead she sends out ever Faithfull gollum who waffles pish in his wee slithering whispers , master sayssssss bad rangersssss fans masssttterrr angrrryyyy but probably bad bloggers responsible
A year or so after the 2014 unionist riot in George Square I sent a freedom of information request to the COPFS asking if any of the unionists reported in the media as being arrested that night had been charged or convicted of any offences. Didn’t ask for names or details, just yes or no. Reply asked me if I had any personal connection to the case. When I said no, I was told that the information could not be shared with me. I wonder if anyone ever was charged, or if it was all just dropped because Rangers and their loyalist army are above the law in Scotland?
“Let us get back to basics and start attacking the real enemy in Scotland – the unionists of all colours and none”
Well, since November 2014 the SNP are no longer the party of independence. They are now some of those unionists you mention of all colours and none. So it is quite correct that we attack them for their spectacular failures: they denied us democracy despite being put in power on the back of a democratic mandate for indyref. They denied us our right to self determination despite being voted to Westminster on a mandate to stop brexit. They are forcing on us toxic policies despite nobody wanting them.
If we remain in this union today it is because Sturgeon’s SNP has abused our pro indy votes for over 5 years and used them to preserve this union.
So yeah, let’s get to basics by all means:
No plebiscite? No vote.
John Martini says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:26 pm
Michel Laing
The division is already there. The whole thing is a mess. Even a new salmond and cherry party would have to acknowledge that a referendum is a long way off.
All parties are a coalition of ideas once you have agreed on the main point.
If the aim of the SNP is Independence then that is what is should aim for.
One of the problems the SNP has is that it is also the party of government so gets distracted by events and having to have a policy for “everything”.
Pressure groups use this to gain levels of control – in recent times you have Momentum at Labour , ERG and UKIP for the Conservatives .
These groups are not good for the ultimate aim because they alienate the “middle ground” where the consensus is.
SNP need to rid itself of the extraneous manifesto items and stand for Independence.
It does not have the people who can do that in its current form.
Cudneycareless
You are the only sane one in the room. The rest sound like comteian positivists.
“Even a new salmond and cherry party would have to acknowledge that a referendum is a long way off”
Perhaps it is time to acknowledge and accept that indyref is not the right path to follow to reach independence. The path is to use an election, any election, every election, as a plebiscite on independence.
Well, there is no better time than the present. In less than two months we have a wonderful opportunity. Why wasting it?
Any real pro independence parties out there that are committed enough to independence to include in their manifesto a mandate to dissolve the union and giving us what Sturgeon has denied us for 5 years?
Or the only aim of the “alternative” yes parties out there is simply to hand over seats by the back door to Sturgeon and Robertson’s anti-independence SNP?
Also no numbers means less likely a challenge from one of the unsuccessful candidates. I really mean a challenge from a successful candidate that has been demoted to Number 2 because of a probably illegal selection process. This whole process stinks, the like of Christian Allard being happy with a process that he probably won, but will now probably not get a seat.
dunks says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:32 pm
I would be a pensioner if the WM govt hadn’t robbed me of 6 years of pension. As an older person I feel totally neglected by the SNP. They have done much to mitigate Troy cuts for the young and for families but if you are a sing WASPI woman without issue, they don’t give a toss. I have voted for them for independence but it now appears that they don’ t even intend to deliver that – In fact all that they seem intent on delivering are an erasure of women’s sex based rights and legal gagging laws on all who disagree with their woke mantra. I have loaned them my vote for the last time.
Sorry I’ve skimmed a lot of this and had a nap but when was religion brought into this
Delete this mr c if appropriate
Possibly Sturgeon didn’t take today’s briefing as she was over come with emmotion after Joanna Cherry QC was selected as one of Westminster’s 100 most inspirational and influential women in this year’s list.
I see a threat.
Can’t see any negative feedback on her twitter page and no “Congatulations” from her boss.
Mia
The other parties are small and have no pulling power. Even if they got elected they would succumb to powers that be like the SNP did.
Don: “ No credit for not being properly informed, the number of dead so far in Scotland from the Rona is more than 9580””
Well, my tedious friend, I’d expect someone as “properly informed” as you to know that some have suggested as many as 10 thousand new members joined the SNP ranks after Nicola’s appearance at the inquiry.
Zzzzzzzzzzz
Imagine you were sharing a flat with someone you thought you knew, someone you thought cared for you and vice versa, someone you thought you could trust.
Then one night by sheer chance you are awoken by a noise to find your flatmate and friend standing over you holding a huge knife.
Only at the last moment do you leap to the side as they plunge the knife into the mattress in the exact spot you were just peacefully sleeping.
So… do you go back to bed, get up the next day and just carry on as normal? Do you write it off as less important than keeping good relations with your flat mate going forward because you co-own a bunch of Ikea furniture and shit?
No you don’t. Some things are irreversible. There is no going back from them.
A few hangovers on here today, imagine a few Bears are just waking about after partying in George Square. You should hang your heads in shame.
Fs meant Inappropriate
The problem the SNP have is that we’re a country fine-tuned of knowing when it’s all BS. We’ve had lifetimes and generations of being fed it.
I think they know once the figures come out they won’t add up. A few people on here saying they left months and years ago but still getting begging letters makes me think they’re still on lists as registered members. It may be happening to others.
If it’s all hunky-dory why has Peter Murrell got his hand out asking for money ‘to keep the party ticking over’? An odd turn of phrase for a party which has more members than ever before.
“Even if they got elected they would succumb to powers that be like the SNP did”
And that is precisely why they must include in the manifesto a mandate for independence. If Sturgeon’s New Labour, I mean fake SNP has demonstrated something is that indyref is not the way to go. In fact indyref is the way to ensure we never get independence. The way to go is to revert that darn policy to its original: a majority of pro independence seats is a mandate for independence.
If they new pro indy parties do that we may not win in 2 months’ time but it will completely change the goalposts for 2024 and will show the SNP for the unionist party it has become. This will send a shot across the SNP bows: either the SNP reverts its policy too or it will be completely bypassed.
It what you do is simply rely on the SNP to do the work it does not intend to do and you are handing them over seats by the back door, Scotland will never be independent.
We have to start somewhere.
No plebiscite? No vote.
Slab 2.0
I’m not a fan of football, except when the national team plays, however I didn’t realise the full extent of damage caused by Rangers FC fan in George Sq until recently. Memorial benches were smashed which I thought was disgraceful.
Their terrible actions brought back memories of 2014 and unionists with Rangers tops running around the SQ and the nearby streets stabbing, beating and slashing folk.
If we’re ever to dissolve this union, we’ll need to confront this ugly face of bigotry, hatred and loathing of who we are and what country we live in, unfortunately this mentality runs like a thread through the whole of Scotland, in a divide and conquer nature.
Kane @ 6:26
Murderers hang their heads in shame.
Don’t be a Drama Queen or a spoil sport.
Can you not take the slightest bit of joy from watching a group of sports fans, all getting together, to celebrate their first ever championship trophy.
Hi dunks at 5:32 pm.
You typed,
“As a pensioner I am getting heartily sick of reading about all that is bad with the SNP. We are a matter of weeks away from the most important Scottish election EVER. This constant barrage of SNP bad from wings is not what I give my yearly fiver or so from my pension for. Surely this can all wait until after the election.”
“This constant barrage of SNP bad from wings”???
Do you only read WOS? Other bloggers have been raising issues pertaining to the “management” of the SNP in recent months.
I suggest that you check out these links:-
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
https://gordondangerfield.com/
https://yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com/
BTW: I am also of pensionable age but continue in my full-time employment, because I can’t be @r$ed with the hassle of retiring. Onnyhoo, I like my job. Age has nothing to do with recognising sleaze when it is presented to you.
And I would add this link to my list at 6:38 pm.
https://scotlandspeaks.com/
@ ROS at 6.36pm
No sign of Humza Yousaf tweeting anything today condemning the activities in George Square. But then I understand Ibrox is in his constituency…
Even the great Ron Swanson of Parks and Rec fame would probably have mustered some kind statement with regard to the mess and damage to park property.
Tories still to back to VONC on John Swinney if they believe that not all the legal advice was handed over, crucially Greens leader Patrick Harvey claims he’ll back the opposition parties stance if Swinney is found (which we’re sure he has) to not have handed over all the advice.
Dan @6:49 I read on Twitter Humza has not been available for media interviews either today- He hasn’t tweeted since yesterday afternoon when congratulating Rangers. NS is also AWOL…
@kapelmeister says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:53 am
“Gnu Labour”
I wonder what kind of tea they drink…?
We know Greens leader Patrick Harvey is open to a coalition with the SNP, off the back of this, Harvie has said that its not a given that his party will back a no confidence vote, if its (she has) found that Sturgeon has broken the Ministerial Code.
Like Nick Clegg, with the Tories under David Cameron Harvey has found himself in the likely position of king maker, and his party will jump into bed like Clegg’s Lib/Dems did with Cameron’s Tory party to sample a taste of power in Scotland.
@ Sylvia
Ach, they’re probably just busy in one of those Whatsapp group thingies they like to do gaming out how they are going to deal with the implications of the messages content the Crown Office has released to the Inquiry Committee…
Mia
by 2024 many people will be dead and many others will have become devolutionists.
Earliest you could get an indyref would be 2028ish. That might be a world where the EU has collapsed the french have become nationalists and Israel have nuked Iran.
100 idiots
I spoke like that because that was how I was spoken to.
A couple of them mention female members of their Catholic
families were sickened by the Police watching as many laws
were broken, particularly the Lockdown rules.
The non Celtic supporting Catholic members of their family are
blaming the inaction on Nicola and SNP so they will no
longer be voting for them.
For me it’s the top cop that should be facing the chop!
Republicofscotland 6.36pm.
The Irish, divided against each other. The Scots, divided against each other. The Welsh are left in peace. (they’re in the bag, or seemed to be until recently) It seems so obvious what’s going on, and has been going on for centuries. It’s how the Establishment work, and that’s why it’s so difficult to get away from them.
Royalty play a big part in this. When the old queen dies, which can’t be long now, that will help to weaken the bonds that hold us. Charles or William can never command the respect that the queen has.
If we ever do get away from them, it will take generations to heal the wounds and unite our nation.
dunks says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:32 pm
As a pensioner I am getting heartily sick of reading about all that is bad with the SNP. We are a matter of weeks away from the most important Scottish election EVER.
Weeks away from an election where the SNP only waffles pish about a referendum which Sturgeon can’t hold because she squandered Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution, but where the SNP desperately wants mandates for it’s GenderWooWoo bollocks and Hate Crime Bill.
Ask yourself what they’re playing at Dunks, because it surely ISN’T getting Scotland out of this damned Union.
It’s nothing short of blackmail that if we poor sods actually want Scottish Independence, we’ve got to vote for the Wokeratti’s agenda and approve all their under the table gerrymandering and rigging of the NEC.
The best message to send the SNP right now isn’t carry on regardless, it is change course fast, boot out the crooks and weirdos, or lose votes in May by the shipload. Doesn’t seem a complicated formula.
Whilst I cant bring myself to vote for the SNP, I will.never vote for a unionist party eeither! Or support one.
The fact that the snp have morphed into a unionist party means I will probably not vote in may. Not unless there is a truly pro independence party standing.
Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,
The Committee will meet next on Tuesday 9 March at 10.15 am when it will consider its draft report in private. Agenda for the meeting on Tuesday 9 March 2021 (90KB pdf) ,
From the agenda ,
1. Review of Evidence (in private): The Committee will review the evidence heard on the inquiry.
2. Draft Report (in private virtual meeting): The Committee will consider its draft report.
Effigy @ 7:09 – The top cop hasn’t said a word today neither has Humza ad NS is also AWOL.
“Rangers have just written to FM Nicola Sturgeon expressing concerns over comments from her government about the club’s “silence” over crowds assembling. They’ve outlined it was Rangers officials who initiated contact with ScotGov & SPFL back on 22 Feb”
https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1368981104766705675
I haven’t had a chance to look through this completely as yet, but it may be of interest to you all.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9104/
We’re caught in a trap but we can’t walk out coz..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind#:~:text=The%20double%20bind%20occurs%20when,opt%20out%20of%20the%20situation.
Christina McKelvie doesn’t seem to know the meaning of the words:
Woman
Vandalised
Slurs
https://twitter.com/crit_gen/status/1369006430917951489?s=20
Now we know the SNP leadership are saying that new members are joining in their thousands and that Nicola is the driver.
Interesting therefore as we all know how this sits at odds with the huge numbers that had left. And most certainly interesting given two anecdotal reports of two constituencies each gaining 50 and 7 new members post Sturgeon’s evidence.
Interesting also how there are lots of reports about folks no longer members getting mailshots. Together these reports suggest a members and indeed a funding crisis may be lurking.
So what of the the members. Well if the 2019 accounts are anything to go by, the SNP had at that time around 87,000 members and somewhat less than the previously acknowledged high of 126,000. We know this to be accurate because was based on the SNP audited accounts which recorded the amount of the members levy.
But that was 2019 and we know that members have haemoraged since then. And so if another 39,000 left in 2020 then the membership is down to around 50,000 or 38% of what it was at its peak.
These are startling figures, and since many that I know are only paying the very bare minimum to retain membership of a party that they are no longer comfortable with, this does suggest a party in real trouble.
Overstating members to the public thus becomes a priority spin for a party going down. Sadly it’s all a big spin now. Members play no part in policy or in fact in anything much else.
And as the election campaign rolls on, one can only surmise what actually lies under the cloak of secrecy.
Plainly Scotland needs a party that fights tooth and nail for Scotland’s interests. In that task there is no room for sentiment or ‘altruism’, a fatal flaws more than suggestive of uncertainty and timidity of purpose. A nice flaw for which the agents of the British state have a refined nose.
The empire may be history but the memory of how the British acquired it and kept it with only the occasional use of force majeure indicates the importance of unshakeable focus and resolve when engaged in a struggle for national freedom.
I wonder if there are any history books in Bute House or SNP hq?
A remedial crash course on the ploys and stratagems of imperial colonial powers could be useful.
Scotland is by no means an exceptional case.
So, get cramming!
“by 2024 many people will be dead and many others will have become devolutionists”
And many yes voters will have woken up to the fraud that Sturgeon is and to the tragic fact that she destroyed the SNP transforming it into another unionist party. Fed up of waiting, they will be ready to bypass her corruption and con acts combo and find a more direct route. The route we should have always followed.
By the way, how many yes supporters have died since 8th May 2015? I select that date because that is the day that should have marked the end of the union if we only had a real pro independence leader in control of the SNP and not a New Labour neo-liberal plant masquerading as left of the centre nationalist.
So, how many yes supporters should have lived to see their country independent but they didn’t because the fraud in control of the SNP chose to use our yes votes to preserve the union, to force brexit on us and foist on us toxic, science denying policies nobody wants?
“Earliest you could get an indyref would be 2028ish”
You could get an indyref tomorrow if you only had a pro independence party with the commitment to deliver the democratic mandates given by the people of Scotland. Sadly there isn’t any. But you can have an indyref in the form of a plebiscitary election on May 2021, that is less than 2 months away. Why should we wait 3 years when we can have one in less than 2 months?
I think you have misinterpreted me. I am not advocating for an indyref that the British state can cheat like I am convinced they cheated indyref2014. I was advocating for an indyref until recently because THAT is what the people of Scotland gave a democratic mandate to the fraud for in 2016. Democratic mandates are handed over in expectation they will be delivered, not brushed under the carpet or collected on somebody’s mantelpiece.
The fraud has decided to show two fingers to our democracy and right to self determination and has let that mandate expire just because she could not be arsed to deliver it. As far as I am concerned that is indyref over for me. I do no longer feel any obligation to support it anymore or ask for other again. What for? So the plant of the day in control of the SNP can deny it to us with some new fabricated excuse?
No thanks. I will never ask again for an indyref that will be used as THE excuse to deny Scotland its right to self determination like the fraud has been doing for the last 5 years.
What I am asking for is for is a policy change whereby indyref is not considered “the gold standard”. Because it is not. It is the Tin standard at most. What I am asking for is reverting to the good reliable old system, whereby voting for an independence party is a de facto vote to end the union, as it should have always been.
What I am advocating for is to transform each and every single election the people of Scotland takes part in into a de facto referendum. In that way we always know what we are voting for and there is no room for frauds like the one in control of the SNP to fool us by mocking us after she got our pro independence vote that, well, independence was not on offer so that is not what we voted for. I refuse to have corrupt politicians telling me what I have voted for. I choose what I vote and voted for.
The only thing I need for that is ONE pro independence party that is willing to include a mandate for independence in their manifesto.
Any takers?
Willie,
Yes, it would be interesting to hear from other constituencies about their membership numbers.
When Trump claims the election was rigged he is ridiculed by the same people who claim the 2014 Referendum was rigged. I suppose the Brexit Referendum was rigged too. I don’t think any of these elections were rigged. To quote our Great Leader “ there isn’t a shred of evidence “.
Democracy is based on the vote of the majority. The SNP are no longer a democratic party but a party of minoritarianism both internally through candidate selection and externally via legislation, such as promoting minority transgender issues.
It is neither democratic nor transparent and in all likelihood illegal.
There is a great deal of pain in life and perhaps the only pain that can be avoided is the pain that comes from trying to avoid pain.
When do you think the penny will drop, Senor Campbell?
Do you know what. I wish England hadn’t voted for Brexit. At the time I thought it would lead to independence , so kind of wanted them to.
Now we are left with the worst of both worlds. No EU protection and no chance of independence.
Chief Constable Livingston isn’t going anywhere boys and girls. He was or is neck deep in trying to stitch up Salmond. However he is another that needs to go because he is part of the problem and not the solution.
Our wonderfully inept Chief Constable has seen to it there was no arrests in relation to what happened yesterday so far. He has also seen to it so far that no Covid 19 Rule Breaking Tories have been arrested and charged with anything either in the last year. Funny that!!
Congratulations. Tory England.
They announce today that they one have now had 110,000 Covid deaths.
The second worse management of the Covid Virus in Europe belongs to
the larger population of Italy with 10,000 fewer deaths.
The availability of vaccine in the U.K. was to be heralded as their saviour from
a year of incompetence and greed?
Why then 12 weeks after vaccination started are they still far and away performing so badly?
And people in Scotland are will to vote for more of this from team Tory Boris ?
As an outside observer, the Wings communinity do need to have and come up with a proposal for a constructive way forward as very difficult as that may seem at the current juncture. The question posed by joseph robinson is one laden with a lot of heartbreak and frustration that must be present with many current and former SNP supporters. You all need to properly organize a challenge and alternative vehicle to independence, maybe there are such out there idk. But definately you need to as a community promote those. You know why so much shit came your way post referendum? The Yes Movement got the entire electorate of a country engaged in a way not seen in the Anglophone world in recent history. Debate and engagement had to be crushed, so the powers that be in London, and even in Washington became dedicated to snuffing out that light of hope for a more democratic society. All those “with her” type initiatives and the trips to culturally exchange with the 1% bureaucrats in the States were not just a fling, but rather how the US uses soft power to start to initiate regime change or malibility to their will. The result is a Scottish version of Hilary Clinton and possibly the death of a movement.
Best regards to all of you from a guy in Phnom Penh
@ Willie
“Together these reports suggest a members and indeed a funding crisis may be lurking.”
There’s no “may” about it, the funding crisis is already here. The 2019 accounts showed the Party to be insolvent and the situation only got worse in 2020. They suspended paying the branches their share of 2019’s subscriptions (let alone 2020) and they’ve been begging members to renew their subscriptions months in advance. That’s robbing Peter to pay Paul and the Party is heading for the cliff edge. Yet no effort has been made to reduce the Head Office payroll, indeed they are adding to it by their recent announcement of the appointment of Marco Biagi. On top of that are legal fees for Murrell’s appearances before the Inquiry and probably Sturgeon too. Party HO have to be burning cash at a rate of knots.
The prospects of the SNP spending 1.5 million on the May election are non-existent. Their actions show that they’re desperate for cash just to pay their day-to-day running costs. Yet they won’t come clean to the members about the Party’s dire financial situation because that would expose Murrell and Sturgeon’s mis-management of the Party and force them out. They’re probably hoping that they an appeal to the members for donations to fight the election will bail them out.
This gives the members an opportunity to reclaim the Party from the Murrell clique. The members en masse need to tell the MSPs and Party officials that there’ll be no money, no campaign volunteers and no votes for them until Sturgeon, Murrell & Swinney are gone. MSPs need to be told that they’ll get no money or votes unless they remove Sturgeon.
With Sturgeon & Murrell gone and Alex Salmond invited back you’d see a flood of members rejoining and Alex could make an appeal for donations to put the Party on a sound footing. Alex is the only one who could generate the level of enthusiasm and financial support to pull the SNP back from the brink. But time is running out while the Party sleepwalks towards disaster. The members need to act NOW!
“A remedial crash course on the ploys and stratagems of imperial colonial powers could be useful.
Scotland is by no means an exceptional case.
So, get cramming!”
@Ottomamboi 7.46: the cramming could perhaps start here, “Orientalism” by Edward Said, which I am sure you are aware of.
Crap all over indigenous culture(s) and language(s), corrupt/suborn the ruling class or “revolutionary” bourgeoisie and job done!
StuartM @8:46
The SNP even increased their staff at Westminster last year. They advertised a post for an extra press officer there. Unbelievable level of hubris.
@ Mia at 7.54: Solidarity have a plebiscite for independence in their manifesto. They are standing under AFI’s umbrella so may get a seat or two.
However to get a majority of votes for a plebiscite then it needs the SNP to support it. Sadly this is unlikely to happen even if the current leader was displaced.
@ kapelmeister
The SNP Westminster Parliamentary Group’s finances are separate to the Party Head Office and are reported separately to the Electoral Commission. I did take a quick look at their accounts a couple of months back. My memory is they were in the black and that their funds came from a levy on MP’s salaries and Short Money. I’m pretty sure that it would be illegal to divert any of the Short Money to pay for SNP HO, so if the WM Group can afford the salary of another press officer I can’t see a problem. The financial mis-management is all centred in Edinburgh, not London.
@Mia
“ The only thing I need for that is ONE pro independence party that is willing to include a mandate for independence in their manifesto.”
Yes I think this is the way forward. The SNP won’t adopt it for May, that’s for sure and I don’t think that will change, plus most folk associate them with the ‘referendum route’. A party needs to be established, where everyone associates a vote for them as a vote for independence. For anything meaningful to be done by May the endorsement of someone of influence would be required.
I’ll get peters for this but wrt the next 3 or 4 years, the only way we will be able to expose the SNP is if they’re a majority govt. As a minority govt, they can use other parties as their excuse for not proceeding. In opposition they would spend 4 years telling us we made a dreadful mistake and that they were still ‘committed’ to independence.
They need to be held up to the light. Only then will the bubble burst in the eyes of the party loyalists.
‘pelters’
I don’t know if I’ve already posted this. Haven’t read it all myself yet. but looks like there is some good info re Independence
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9104/
I just can’t buy the argument about NS being the best chance of independence. What new independent start could we expect under a government that hides stuff from its own people?
I don’t want our first day of freedom to be under a dubious regime that attempts to silence its “enemies” and tries to send them to prison.
We can’t go independent and just “sort it out later”. This all needs dealt with now. Today.
And let’s face it, she doesn’t really want independence, does she? I believe she did once, until she got settled into the FM’s chair. But now it’s all too easy. Plenty of power for her and Murrell, but without the responsibilities of a country standing on its own two feet. We’re in limbo at the minute. We’re not one thing or the other, and she seems happy to sit in the middle.
AS understood the need for accountability, and more importantly, the division of government and judiciary. It’s at the heart of credibility for an independent Scotland. And he was thrown to the wolves for it. She’s assassinated the only person who had the real power to challenge her. Independence didn’t matter. Consolidating her power base did. It’s the old game of divide and conquer. And she’s achieving it.
She needs to be gone, and a uniting force needs to emerge and clean up this whole mess. She’s not going to bring independence. She’s going to stop it.
The poison needs cut out, unity can be restored, and we can all move on together. Good government, with proper checks and balances and limits on individual power makes the case for independence on its own. There’s more than a few within the SNP that can achieve this. They just need to stand up.
Forget Covid.
Forget Brexit.
Options
1. Do we vote for the SNP in the hope that is stays the same?
2. Do we vote SNP in the hope that it changes?
3. Do we vote to bring down the SNP to allow others to assume the indy mantle?
4. Do we provide an alternative option?
Answers on a postcard.
StuartM @9:09
Thank you Stuart for that info. No need to blame the SNP Westminster group for the party’s financial mess then. Although I still look askance at them adding to staff when they’re supposed to be in London to, as they say, settle up not settle down.
@TNS2019 9:26pm
It’s surely up to individuals. They will vote according to their own judgement. I personally cannot walk past corruption. So I won’t be voting and thats a response to the Scottish Parliaments handling of the Harassment Inquiry. I expected better. Aberdeen manager resigns fitba winning the news agenda.
ScottieDog,
I can’t agree with that at all, the SNP have abused the power they have and giving them more power will not remedy that. All that will lead to is more power to abuse.
We can all forget about Indy this May or in the next term of an SNP government, we already know they want nothing to do with that responsibility, just ask Mr Keatings.
Of course they have to talk the talk but is there any inkling that they will turn words into action?
Many people have given Nicola and chums their last vote including me, I’m not cutting my nose of to spite my face as some would like to believe, I genuinely don’t care who delivers independence or how we get there.
If I thought Nicola Sturgeon and her carnival of whimsy would deliver independence then I would vote for the SNP, I simply don’t believe that they will make even a half-hearted attempt nevermind a genuine one.
It’s a matter of trust and I don’t trust her or her mates.
As some have already noted this is a repeat of the demise of New Labour and I just want to fast forward to the inevitable end.
We need a new party and we have to build it from scratch (some have already been started) but it’s going to take time.
I would like to think coming events might make the outlook rosier but I’m not optimistic, time will tell.
I’m surprised anyone still thinks the Sturgeon Nicola Party is interested in an independent Scotland.
Have a look at the SNP website, no party history. It’s as if nothing happened before the arrival of the Nicola. Reset to year zero.
Try finding independence mentioned. It’s in there but not front and centre as you would expect.
In my youth, 40+ years ago, if you believed in independence you could join even if you weren’t a socialist, not so much now. The view that conservatives are evil is now part of the creed.
Labour collapsed as a major force and the worst of its leeches joined the party, no surprise it is full of loons similar to those who infest Labour in England/Wales.
It has even adopted the centralised control system used by most Trotskyist groups.
Even its comments on Independence talk about subjecting us to Brussels, why swap Westminster for another foreign controller? How about becoming independent?
The draft manifesto is just another Section 30 request, with a ” Scotland will not stand for this” adendum.
Did Blackford write it?
kapelmeister @ 8:51 pm
The SNP even increased their staff at Westminster last year. They advertised a post for an extra press officer there.
What was in the ad? “Good long-term prospects?”
JHChrist!
scrolled down from the header and BAM
…that visage of utter curmudgeon; a vision so destitute of morality only surviving [if that’s what you call it] under a funereal vacuum of grasping, avaricious ineptitude and covetousness.
@weemonkey
you don’t like him then? ;p
Robert Wadleigh Greeting to you, love phnom penh and Cambodia.
Been there a few times and hopefully will get back some day.
Is the Heart Of Darkness night club still on the go ?
Effigy says:
8 March, 2021 at 8:38 pm
Congratulations. Tory England.
They announce today that they one have now had 110,000 Covid deaths.
The second worse management of the Covid Virus in Europe belongs to
the larger population of Italy with 10,000 fewer deaths.
The availability of vaccine in the U.K. was to be heralded as their saviour from
a year of incompetence and greed?
Why then 12 weeks after vaccination started are they still far and away performing so badly?
And people in Scotland are will to vote for more of this from team Tory Boris ?
Yeah we get your [oft repeated message] but just when did Boris join the SNP?
Was it last weekend when he realised he’d known her from 16?
YAWN. Lot of hot air.
508 new cases in Scotland. How’s that for an actual issue eh.
ScotsRenewables says:
8 March, 2021 at 12:03 pm
Quote:-
“My hope would be that Alex or whoever would still suggest 1st vote SNP.”
If that TV program “the comedians” ever comes back you should be first on their list!
Wow! I’ve been reading this & it looks like the SNP are really holding Independence back with the actions they’ve taken over the past 6 years.
Here is a snippet from it
In his contribution to the debate, the SNP MP Alex Salmond said he had received
reassurances from Donald Dewar, publicly and privately, that the Scotland Bill would
contain no “glass ceiling” which prevented Scotland becoming independent at some
point in the future.
46 This had been considered important in terms of getting SNP “buy in”
for devolution during the cross-party referendum campaign.47 On 24 July 1997 Dewar had
stated:
If I did try to build such barriers, they would be futile and without effect. At the end
of the day, in practical politics, what matters is what people want. If the hon.
Gentleman is able to carry the people of Scotland, no doubt he will be able to
advance his cause.
Salmond interpreted this as meaning that the UK government “envisaged a devolved
Parliament within the state of the United Kingdom, but the sovereign right of the Scottish
people to choose to change that arrangement, if they so wished, was upheld”.48 He also
quoted Dewar on 4 June 1997, saying that
when it comes—if it ever does—to the point where he wishes to implement a specific
constitutional scheme, he should put that to the people of Scotland in a singlequestion referendum to get it endorsed.49
That snippet is on page 14. you have to download the whole file to read
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9104/
Weemonkey, are you from Barcelona?
Sharny Dubs says:
8 March, 2021 at 1:01 pm
Quote:-
“I told the SNP to stuff my membership were the sun don’t shine long time since but the other day I received two mails, one from the local candidate (of the woke variety) and one from blinky blinky fire pants, worryingly both with application forms made out for postal votes.
They are probably still counting me as a member.”
So it’s the old grab the postal vote before the shit really hits the fan ploy?
Wee note: in over 15 years of political activity within the SNP and living in the Deputy FM patch, I can say with absolute certainty that this is the first time he’s running a crowdfunder to financially support his campaign.
That’s where the party’s at. Broke.
Financially, now, because it’s been morally broke for years and support has vanished.
The wheels have come off the bus.
Time to build a new vehicle, and this time please let’s make it a tank.
Too right Iain More @8.36.
Police Scotland ‘s Chief Constable had to be up to his neck in the police’s attempts to pursue a case against Alex Salmond. There were millions and millions spent at a time when budgets are under pressure.
And of course it didn’t stop at Salmond. Hirst, Murray being further example and of course out of favour Margaret Ferrier MP got the culpable and reckless treatment three months after she returned from London having been advised of a positive COVID reading. Maybe if she’d been a Rangers supporter instead of a catholic MP she might have been spared the prosecution.
Yep, from all that’s coming out the Police, or at least the controlling board of management, have a lot to answer for in how they implement policing policy. I for one have little trust now in their impartiality and or integrity.
In too many ways it’s like the Northern Ireland policing of the old Royal Ulster Constabulary and B specials infamy.
.
Elma,
You are very patient and tolerant with your reply to “Dunks”.
He/she/it is either: (I) a troll; (ii) a Sturgeonite McWokist plant; or (iii) a poor deluded person in denial.
This website seems to have gone through torture last year as the Sturgeonites stomped off in a huff. Stuart Campbell was disembowelled online by the Nicostazi control freakery and Humza thought police.
Since their departure Wings, has become a great place for debate and a forensic journalist at the top.
Please be in no doubt, we are seeing history as a Nicola Sarkozy moment approaches. Where people speak truth to power and somertimes power has to pay the price by being tried and sent to jail when found guilty.
Evidently Stuart, Wings Over Scotland is unearthing REAL TRUTHS as Stuart’s website visitor statistics have gone through the roof from around 1,000,000 to 4,000,000 per month. Worth noticing that the bloke from a Bath who blogs, actually publishes his readership numbers, whilst the governmping party of Scotland urinates on democracy by hiding its membership figures and the McWoke bosses at SNP high-command defacates on electoral law/principles by hiding the voter numbers behind the election of potential McWoke SNP MSPs to our parliament at Holyrood. The Sturgeonite SNP hiding voter stats., is not a good look (votes cast not percentages).
The fact that these Sturgeonites are creeping back to Wings and whining on here again that we should WeeshtForIndy or give Nicola yet another mandate surely means the internal polling at the SNP is showing dire results as the electorate begins to understand the current SNP high command has captured the control of the governing party?
Please can someone help me? I’ve been looking for an article that studied every constituency in Scotland and concluded that every one is a marginal. For reasons that will become apparent, the source of this quote and its veracity shall become very important as several former high worth donors to the SNP look to move support to the new pro-indy parties.
—————————————————————-
Elmac says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:39 pm
Dunks @ 5.32pm
You are missing the point Dunks. All on here (except trolls) want independence but the SNP has been taken over by a cabal who are only interested in maintaining their position and income. The last thing they want is independence and at the moment they ARE the real enemy. We need rid of them first then we can concentrate on the unionists.
5.39pm
Jesus H Christ, it looks to me as though aroundv50% of the BTL posters on here are Unionist trolls now.
Most of us are still going to vote SNP because we are
a) not Unionist trolls
b) not stupid enough to let the Unionists control Holyrood because that Is the end
c) able to tell the difference between a party and its current leaders
It is possible that 10% of the ‘not voting’ brigade on here are genuinely unable to bring themselves to vote, and that is your choice (though you will have to own it if we end up with a Unionist majority in Holyrood)
The other 90% are just pathetic Yoon Tras. You know who you are.
Swinney’s begging bowl.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/johnswinneyperthshirenorth
Elmac, any political party can be changed or reformed. Happens all the time.
Allowing a Unionist government in Holyrood will be a bigger betrayal than Sturgeon’s.
Elmac says:
8 March, 2021 at 5:39 pm
Dunks @ 5.32pm
“You are missing the point Dunks. All on here (except trolls) want independence but the SNP has been taken over by a cabal who are only interested in maintaining their position and income. The last thing they want is independence and at the moment they ARE the real enemy. We need rid of them first then we can concentrate on the unionists.
5.39pm”
I think that way will get you nothing. Zero, zilch. Same old that the people are seeing through.
What Scotland needs is to END the DIVISION and move forwards as a nation, not little tribes [clans] that can be picked off or turned against each other.
Otherwise it’s the same old, tired story; the same that has been going on for 50 odd years.
‘Scott Shaw says:
8 March, 2021 at 1:00 pm
Has anyone considered self identifying as BAME yet.’
Meet yer new list candidate, Farquhar McFucksake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIaj7FNHnjQ
Can somebody make sure that Rev Stu sees the post above. I’ve already sent it to Martin Keatings
Will read it again, but what I understand by my first scan of it.
The SNP when they sent all these politicians down to WM in 2015 could have started proceeding for your independence.
Make no wonder Alex Salmond told nicola in 2016/2017 that she wasn’t pressing hard enough on it.
It also shows that Alex is the man to get you there, or politicians that truly want independence. It states in the file that if the parliament, government party had the maximum politicians in the Scottish parliament & in WM that Scotland could secede.
It looks like the way to go is to give your list vote to another party. Work towards having more than one independence party for the next WM election & then by 2016 have another Independent party other than just SNP in the holyrood elections for constituency & list votes.
SNP have had 6 years & have done bugger all. They’ve got too comfortable. Aren’t settling up in WM, they’ve settled in.
Time the SNP had some serious competition. They either shape up or ship out. They are not a party for independence at the moment, They are but a party dangling a carrot promising you a referendum. You don’t need a referendum, You just need to have a maximum of Independent politicians.
The sad thing is you had them in 2015 & the SNP sat on their hands & did bugger all.
God I wish Alex, Joanne, Neil & Kenny would start up a party & bring on board any other true Independent minded politicians from the SNP that up till now have been too scared to raise their head above the parapet.
Leave the dross to the SNP.
Feeling more positive after reading that file. Nicola Sturgeon & her hanger ons, are a waste of time & space. They need kicked to the kerb, so the Scots can move on with their lives in a Independent country that isn’t governed by a bunch of corrupt crooks.
Swinney is not the only one with the begging bowl. There’s pages of them with the begging bowl out.
https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/search/projects?query=snp&page=4&map=off
Dave Beveridge @10:08
“What was in the ad? “Good long-term prospects?””
LOL. Aye Dave, I don’t think they used that phrase but the whole tenor of the thing was, as far as I recall, that it wasn’t likely to be a short-term gig.
auld highlander says:
“Swinney is not the only one with the begging bowl. There’s pages of them with the begging bowl out.”
Looks like there are other parties with the begging bowl out. I can understand some parties if they have a low membership but if the SNP accounts are so healthy and there are so many new members why the need. My local SNP candidate Toni (where did you come from) Giugliano has his hand out too.
Lmao
Just seen Boris on tv. Who gave Boris that comb over ha ha.
Poor lad is going bald .Seen it coming a year ago.
auld highlander @10:40
Swinney crowdfunder.
Soul selly green welly time.
TNS2019 says:
8 March, 2021 at 9:26 pm
Forget Covid.
Forget Brexit.
Options
1. Do we vote for the SNP in the hope that is stays the same?
2. Do we vote SNP in the hope that it changes?
3. Do we vote to bring down the SNP to allow others to assume the indy mantle?
4. Do we provide an alternative option?
Answers on a postcard.
Well here is the problem with this when the votes are counted it won’t say which of the options you voted for and will allow “the winners” to take it as a mandate for their interpretation .
What do we want?
Independence
How do we get it?
Not sure but SNP have had the mandate for several years and seem to be further away than before.
Clean out and start again!
@Scotrenewables 10:40pm
You can only change a party from within if there is a structure and mechanism to do so. And from your 10:37pm post. c). And that is exactly the problem. The party and current leadership are synonymous. It’s no longer a party of members. They have no real say. It’s a question of integrity you either support corruption or you dont. I will wait on Independence after all it’s only been a tad over 300 years. Nothing to do with Yoon trolls but everything to do with disenfranchised SNP voters. But you are not listening.
I am not a raving loony that’s why I cant’t vote for the SNP. in fact being of relatively sound mind I can’t vote for anybody that would allow me to dress up in a frock and matching knickers and go into a ladies toilet.
Pssst, there’s a rumour going about that our nicola lets her 7 o clock shadow go, gets her tracksuit on and sneaks into the mens bog at ibrox
I can understand those not yet on the gravy train yet but the existing msp’s can use the loose change from their fat salaries to fill the begging bowl.
No need to thank me. My advice is free.
Must admit, I find the new feminisation of politics, especially online, all the he-said-she-said idiot clyping, to be bemusing and vaguely interesting. But it can have more serious consequences, and some of what is said is beyond the pale. Interesting how smears have been weaponised. Don’t like you? Off to Twitter Cyberia with you, new-intersectionalist-doctrine-rejecting heretic! Disgusting….and oddly hilarious, cos it’s so fucking pathetic and teen girly-alike.
http://www.faircop.org.uk/if-you-can-bear-to-hear-the-truth-youve-spoken/
ScotsRenewables,
I have absolutely no doubts at all about Unionists getting into power this coming election, it is inevitable as the SNP is an Independence Party the same way that Labour is a left leaning party, they’re both masquerading as something they are not.
What we have now is a Unionist party in power in Scotland, if they are facilitating the existence of the Union, they are Unionist.
Explain to me why I’m wrong.
Are the list only parties making any real progress ?
Is it possible to “hurt” each other by having too many?
would we be better to pick one list party this tie around ?
Should we ask the Rev to do an in-depth analysis and could we agree to support the party that comes out on top?
If newspapers can endorse Parties, I am sure getting the nod from The Rev would swing quite a few voters
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.”
As pertinent now as when it was written.
Oops, forgot to take the number out.
Breastplate, you are wrong because the majority of SNP members believe in independence and will reclaim the party.
Yes, the situation is shit, but only a weakling or an idiot throws the towel in when the going gets tough.
Ian Murray,
Yes, I do think the list parties need to work together or at least don’t compete against each other but reading between the lines, it looks like the ISP don’t want to play ball.
ScotsRenewables,
The SNP hierarchy have made clear to the members who are in charge and what the members believe matters not a jot.
Wee Monkey @ 10.44
For God’s sake Wee Monkey wake up to what is going on. What has happened over the last 50 years is nothing like what is happening now. If you want independence then the first prerequisite is to vote for an independence party. That is not the SNP of today – it might have been 50 years ago. If you want independence and vote SNP under Sturgeon you are certifiable.
Breastplate says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:19 pm
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.”
As pertinent now as when it was written.
FFS, give it a rest.
SNP BAAAAAAD
SNP BAAAAAAD
SNP BAAAAAAD
SNP BAAAAAAD
SNP BAAAAAAD
I think we’ve got the picture.
Now, do you have anything constructive to say about progressing independence and/or keeping Unionists out of our Parliament?
Because if not, why don’t you just fuck off to Scotland in Union?
Ayrshire Rob @ 11.00pm
That is cruel. They do say it is a potential side effect of Covid. Talking gibberish is another.
Breastplate says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:26 pm
ScotsRenewables,
The SNP hierarchy have made clear to the members who are in charge and what the members believe matters not a jot.
Sturgeon is not going to be around much longer. She’s damaged goods.
– W
ScotsRenewables,
I’d also like to add that it’s not a question of removing the head of the snake as it’s a many headed hydra that your dealing with.
Replacing Nicola with one of her cronies is the equivalent of putting glitter on a turd, it’s still a turd.
Constituency:
Neither SNP nor unionists, but a spoiled ballot. Or a credible independent pro independence candidate if there is one standing.
Spoiled ballots count, whereas abstaining doesn’t – be counted.
List:
The pro independence party with the best chance of winning. Hopefully there will be no splitting the genuine pro independence vote.
Every vote for the SNP is a vote for Sturgeon and her criminal gang. Do we really want 5 more years of them?
Not a single MP or MSP has resigned as a matter of principle. Their salaries and pensions are more important.
Breastplate says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:23 pm
Ian Murray,
Yes, I do think the list parties need to work together or at least don’t compete against each other but reading between the lines, it looks like the ISP don’t want to play ball.
If true, then the ISP are just another bunch of oxygen thieving fuckwits. Which really pisses me off, because I will probably have to give my list vote to the SNP as well.
ScotsRenewables,
I’m not saying that it’s an impossible task to save the party but I believe it would take more time and effort than was worth it.
Kcor says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:34 pm
Constituency:
Every vote for the SNP is a vote for Sturgeon and her criminal gang. Do we really want 5 more years of them?
Every spoiled paper is a vote for a Unionist, a vote for the Tory emasculation of Holyrood.
Do we really want 10 more years of them? Tory dishonesty is infinitely worse.
– W
Breastplate says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:37 pm
ScotsRenewables,
I’m not saying that it’s an impossible task to save the party but I believe it would take more time and effort than was worth it.
Don’t be so fucking defeatist. Man up and fight.
ScotsRenewables,
I sense a touch of frustration from you, I’m certainly not trying to upset anyone here, I’m giving an honest assessment of where I think we are but I’m always happy to hear other considered points of view.
ScotsRenewables says,
“Sturgeon is not going to be around much longer. She’s damaged goods.”
She’s definitely damaged goods, but very corrupt and very criminal goods.
She and her corrupt criminal cabal have no intention of going.
The only way to get rid of them is to not vote for the SNP.
ScotsRenewables,
If you could see into the future and you knew that a majority SNP were not going to try and deliver independence in the next term of government, would you still vote for them?
So where is this great news that we have been promised ?
Breastplate @ 11.37pm
I agree with your comment at 11.34 but do not agree the SNP are saveable with time and effort as the corruption is now head to toe. For a start we do not have time to spare. If we vote to perpetuate Sturgeon rule you can certainly kiss goodbye to any move towards independence for the next five years and possibly more. If you vote them out we have a chance to get a real independence party up and running. If that means a unionist coalition at Holyrood then so be it. We can make our mark at the next Westminster election and take power in Holyrood in 5 years time, by which time the SNP will either have imploded due to financial irregularities or be a mere shadow of what they once were. This is the only plausible route for us to attain independence in the near future. We would have been independent by now if the SNP had not been corrupted by the Sturgeon cabal. We owe her big time.
ScotsRenewables says,
“Tory dishonesty is infinitely worse.”
No it isn’t. They didn’t betray us. We have always known what we can expect from them.
There has never been anything worse in the history of Scotland than the Corrupt Criminal in Chief Sturgeon and her criminal gang plotting to put genuine independence leader Alex Salmond in jail to protect their own power.
And completely betraying independence supporters, not least by embezzling £600,000 of independence supporters’ donations to fill the pockets of the likes of Murrell and Rodick, and to pay for legal fees to defend criminals.
No, the New SNP are infinitely worse than not only the Tories, but also New Labour.
Myself and Mrs Morgatron never voted , simply down to the current regime. The SNP have many a good politician out there but they don’t half have a lot of 3rd rate shit too.
Elmac,
I couldn’t say it was impossible to save the party but you are correct that it seems to be corrupt throughout.
I would suggest also that any new party would have a better chance of success with all the wasters, chancers and dregs of Scottish political society tied up in the other parties.
Every cloud yada yada.
Anybody here who advocates a Tory vote directly or indirectly can fuck right off. I wouldn’t wish those blood sucking vampires on anybody. They will almost certainly destroy the NHS in Scotland if they get their hands on it. That is just one of the nasty policies they have in mind of that I have no doubt.
There has to be a way to give the SNP a good kick in the ass without handing our Country totally over to the Scot hating Tories.
Kcor says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:53 pm
ScotsRenewables says,
There has never been anything worse in the history of Scotland than the Corrupt Criminal in Chief Sturgeon and her criminal gang plotting to put genuine independence leader Alex Salmond in jail to protect their own power.
You don’t know much about the history of Scotland, do you?
Elmac says,
“Breastplate @ 11.37pm
I agree with your comment at 11.34 but do not agree the SNP are saveable with time and effort as the corruption is now head to toe.”
Totally agreed.
Not a single SNP MP or MSP resigned on principle.
McAskill and Cherry keep on making noises but it is too little too late. They should have struck when the iron was hot.
Following Corrupt Criminal Con Actress Sturgeon’s acting at the Sturgeon committee, it is now clear that she is expecting to be whitewashed by Hamilton.
Even if she isn’t, knowing that the election is round the corner, she will seek endorsement from the gullible public.
Don’t whitewash her – don’t vote for the SNP (and neither for the unionists – spoil the ballot paper).
“the ISP are just another bunch of oxygen thieving fuckwits”
That’s one way of putting it.
And here’s another; no progress can be made towards independence as long as Sturgeon and her gang remain in power. There’s no point in voting for them if you want independence, and I think more and more people are starting to realise that.
Thus, anything or anyone that serves to starve the SNP of oxygen (votes) should be encouraged and applauded at this stage. We can only hope that the SNP sees where this is going and takes action to avoid the inevitable disaster that awaits.
But these assessments you and others are making on here are entirely meaningless and inappropriate at this time with so many moving parts in play. We can confidently predict dramatic developments in terms of leading politicians joining or forming new parties, votes of no confidence, the Hamilton Inquiry, etc.
There’s really only a very slim possibility that things will remain much as they are as far as the SNP and its leadership going into the election.
It must be the goal of those who genuinely prioritise independence to convince the SNP that radical change is required – and that there is no alternative.
Most people I talk to are resolved to teach the SNP a lesson at this election and are taking a more long term view when it comes to achieving independence. That’s regrettable but, as said, things really are so obnoxiously bad that there’s no alternative.
On a more positive note, we are in a bit of a lull right now and it seems like very little is happening. That’s going to change soon enough and I think it can only change for the better.
Just watched the STV late evening news with the Deputy Chief constable on screen blaming Rangers Football Club for massed crowds across the city. Quite how Rangers FC can be responsible for George Square I really don’t know – but clearly responsibility did not lie with the Deputy Chief Constable.
And then at the daily COVID briefing this lunchtime addressed by a Deputy First Minister ( standing in front of a big message of “ STAY AT HOME” we heard John Swinney castigating Ranger FC in no uncertain terms – so it wisnae Big John’s responsibility either.
Ah well, they’ve both been at the same ‘ it wisnae me school ‘ as Queen Nicola – who by the way was missing from the briefing to day. Mnnnn?
ScotRenewables @ 1138
Every spoilt paper is a vote for a Unionist.
Pish man.Every spoilt paper is a just a spoilt paper.Nothing more, nothing less.
Last turnout for Scot elections was around 50 % so did the rest just spoil or just not vote?
Same thing. Don’t ever tell people what they should and shouldn’t do with their vote.
Kcor: “McAskill and Cherry keep on making noises but it is too little too late. They should have struck when the iron was hot.”
Too late for what?
I can assure you that it isn’t too late for a bunch of influential SNP politicians to jump into another party and take about 25% of the SNP voter base with them.
Also just to say this too, ScotRenewables
I’m not voting for anyone. Are you gonna send Roon the heavies , Swinney and Blackford or sumit.? Lol
It’s my fucking right whether I vote or no.
ScotsRenewables says,
“You don’t know much about the history of Scotland, do you?”
No, but probably more than you do.
But more important, unlike you, I am not trying to fool people into voting for the corrupt, criminal led, totally undemocratic New SNP.
What do you think about the SNP not releasing the voting figures for the recent regional list selections?
What do you think of the favoured fake ‘disabled’ and outsider ‘BAME’ candidates undemocratically and illegally pushed to the top of the lists?
Hatuey says,
“I can assure you that it isn’t too late for a bunch of influential SNP politicians to jump into another party and take about 25% of the SNP voter base with them.”
If you are assuring me, do you seriously believe that McAskill and Cherry among others are going to do it?
I hope it happens, but I have my doubts.
To the SNP.
Go woke go broke.
Hatuey says,
“I can assure you that it isn’t too late for a bunch of influential SNP politicians to jump into another party and take about 25% of the SNP voter base with them.”
If you are assuring me, do you seriously believe that McAskill and Cherry among others are going to do it?
I hope it happens, but I think they have left it too late.
President xiden. The good news? You’re going to have a baby.
Based upon the current so called Royal Family crisis where an undisclosed royal had concerns about the potential skin tone of the at that time yet to be born Archie, son of Harry and Meghan.p here’s a a topical question, posed I may add with absolutely no racism whatsoever. And it is this –
Given young Archie’s parentage, if he was living in Scotland and wanted to go to the top of the SHP regional candidates list could he self certify as Black or Minority Ethnic.
It a sensible question now. Do not dismiss.
Ian More @ 11.59pm
“Anybody here who advocates a Tory vote directly or indirectly can fuck right off. I wouldn’t wish those blood sucking vampires on anybody. They will almost certainly destroy the NHS in Scotland if they get their hands on it. That is just one of the nasty policies they have in mind of that I have no doubt.
There has to be a way to give the SNP a good kick in the ass without handing our Country totally over to the Scot hating Tories.”
What would you propose? There is only one way of to give them enough of a kick and that is to kick them out of power. Don’t think for a minute that the NHS in Scotland is safe under the current set up. If Boris and his pals want to sell the whole Shebang they will do so. If they have to they will disband Holyrood to do it. They already have more than enough ammo to do it thanks to the corrupt crap emanating from the SNP. As I said above, the shortest route to obtaining our independence and freeing ourselves form this vampire union is to vote the SNP out of office and get a real independence party up and running. The SNP are beyond saving and will NEVER deliver independence.
Willie @ 12.38
He could self identify as Hewitt – much less toxic than Windsor up here!
-Willie-
A not-quite-two-year-old member of the royal family would still probably be a more effect advocate for Scotland’s independence than most of Sturgeon’s acolytes.
Scottish Renewables, you are a stupid little man, and an SNP Troll.
Never thought I would ever say that on Wings, but there you go, they have their own Trolls.
Let’s hope that the good people of the Southside of Glasgow vote Scottish Labour and keep Sturgeon out of Holyrood.
If not, we are in for five years of hell from Sturgeon and the SNP.
And I see the double act of Pat and Nic are giving us the same bullshit of being the only Parties of independence.
Fuck off Pat and Nic, seen it, done it, got the Tshirt.
Vote Sarwar,,,God will understand.
Kcor says:
9 March, 2021 at 12:12 am
ScotsRenewables says,
“You don’t know much about the history of Scotland, do you?”
What do you think about the SNP not releasing the voting figures for the recent regional list selections?
What do you think of the favoured fake ‘disabled’ and outsider ‘BAME’ candidates undemocratically and illegally pushed to the top of the lists?
I fucking hate it, but not enough to throw my toys out of the pram.
The party can be fixed. A Unionist majority at Holyrood is the end of indy for 50 years or more.
– W
Lawrence says:
9 March, 2021 at 12:54 am
Scottish Renewables, you are a stupid little man, and an SNP Troll.
Let’s hope that the good people of the Southside of Glasgow vote Scottish Labour and keep Sturgeon out of Holyrood.
Methinks it is you who is the stupid troll. Vote Labour? You are fucking batshit crazy if you think that will do any good. Labour have had their turn, it’s over.
You are not an Independence supporter, you never were.
– W
The ISP and AFI will really need to work together like adults or frankly us anti-SNP independence supporters are no better than what we’re trying to replace. I mean letting petty squabbling, careerism and personality politics trump strategy and principle. You will not reform the SNP by withholding the Salmond sympathizer/anti woke vote unless it has an alternative place to go. All that will happen is noses will be cut off to spite faces in the form of a diminished independence bloc in Holyrood. Come on 2 small alternate parties in Holyrood happened back at the start of devolution when the SSP were bigger than the Greens. It can happen again.
The stench of Unionist trolls on here is overwhelming.
Think I’ll just stick to reading Stu’s excellent articles from now on and stay out of this cesspit.
(With apologies to the good folk down here, there are still a few)
What a way to sign out your political career with a cloud of corruption never been seen before in Scottish politics. He leaves with nothing to feel proud about and everything to regret. Maybe one day he will realise he should have been morally upstanding and a good person but I guess he will just have to face his own karma when it happens.
kcor, nobody knows what will happen. Life’s like that. But I think we all know something’s going to happen. Something’s got to give…
The SNP might stagger on with Sturgeon, wounded and tainted, and if they do the election will be a disaster for them. Who does that serve?
My guess is that a lot of them (those sitting quietly, saying and doing nothing) hope Hamilton will bring her down so that they don’t need to.
But if Hamilton says she broke the Ministerial Code and she refuses to step down, well that just makes their predicament and prospects even worse.
I was hoping George Galloway would go up against Sturgeon for the Glasgow Southside seat. Can we rule that out yet?
I think he’d do pretty well in that area.
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
ScotsRenewables @ 1.04am
Disagreeing does not make you a troll. We all benefit from honest debate. That said there are a few on here who obviously are trolls and should be ignored.
I don’t agree with all you say but I value your opinion and read your comments. You think the SNP are saveable, many on here do not, including myself, but after all these are just personal opinions and you could well be correct. I don’t think any of us, bar the trolls, would not vote for the SNP if they did manage to clean out their stable before May. I think it boils down to what you think is the quickest way to independence, vote SNP and hope the leopard changes its spots, or abstain or vote against them in the hope that they will be shocked into change or a new independence party will rise and do what it says on the tin.
There is a lot up in the air at the moment. Sturgeon is by no means out of the woods yet and the lies and sleaze are being exposed bit by bit. You could well be vindicated so hold on and keep posting. Besides it would be a boring blog if everybody agreed about everything.
ScotsRenewables;
You forgot to call them yoons
Can’t believe anyone thinks the best way to sort out the Murrell mafia is to vote for them.
Aye, that’ll really put Sturgeon in her place….. As FM again. And independence stuck like a broken record. Again.
The truth is, the Party could only get back on track if those MSP’s and WMP’s who believed in independence took he Party back. They should have moved against NS months ago.
Now, I don’t think they will because we’re too near the election. And if she gets back in as FM, they’ll sit on their hands. Again.
At the minute, I’m of a mind to simply spoil my ballot. I really am that angry at what’s going on. It was clear a long time ago that the SNP were under a takeover by the Murrell franchise, and despite the warnings from many people, we’ve had total inaction from those who could have done something.
This could and should have been done and dusted months ago.
Is both votes to save the snp like bombing the village to save the village?
Mac says:
8 March, 2021 at 6:22 pm
Imagine you were sharing a flat with someone you thought you knew, someone you thought cared for you and vice versa, someone you thought you could trust.
Then one night by sheer chance you are awoken by a noise to find your flatmate and friend standing over you holding a huge knife.
Only at the last moment do you leap to
Do you know my ex wife by any chance except it was a pair of scissors she tried it with, ….didn’t stay with her and got best kind of payback… her sister took me in for a few days until I got transport organized to take me and the few belongings I had and an mfo box with my army kit I still had to hand back in when my medical discharge was finally sorted, and her sister couldn’t do enough for me 😀 😉
ian murray says:
8 March, 2021 at 11:18 pm
Are the list only parties making any real progress ?
Is it possible to “hurt” each other by having too many?
would we be better to pick one list party this tie around ?
Poignant questions.
I think a single List Party would be more successful and immediately identifiable, but if we must have separate List Parties, then we must hope they have the sense to avoid competing in the same constituencies and thereby splitting the List vote.
Hoping people have sense however is not a target rich environment in political circles.
@ kapelmeister
“No need to blame the SNP Westminster group for the party’s financial mess then.”
You can blame them for their inaction while the Party’s finances go down the gurgler. Once it became obvious in 2020 that the Party was in financial trouble (see my previous post) they should have been demanding answers from Murrell and Beattie including up-to-date accounts. That goes for the previous NEC as well, they’re supposed to be governing the Party on behalf of the members, not acting as a rubber-stamp.
If that had been dealt with 9-12 months ago Murrell would have been forced out and Sturgeon would have followed close behind. Mind you I do have a smidgen of sympathy for them. It must be like being a member of the Soviet Politburo in the 1930s, afraid to cross Stalin for fear that Beria’s NKVD killers will come for you next.
https://caltonjock.com/2021/03/09/sturgeons-machiavellian-leadership-created-a-political-cesspit-in-scotland-from-which-it-may-never-recover/
Afternote: So there it is. Sturgeon was well aware that her much vaunted “new” procedure was full of holes and had the potential to do great harm to the government and a number of senior officers in it and at the very last minute just before the start of the judicial review she belatedly took the advice of counsel and conceded the case on one of the least damaging of the many failings highlighted to her by legal counsel. She threw Julia MacKinnon under a bus. What was particularly unedifying was the conduct of Sturgeon and Evans after losing the case when they publicly announced that Alex Salmond had got lucky, winning the case on a minor technicality, well knowing the “new” procedure had been created with the single purpose of destroying Alex Salmond was riddled with many serious errors
Scotsrenewables I have responded to your posts over the past year where you at the start defended Sturgeon and the SNP vigorously claiming that we were all just yoons and trolls, now you have seen the lies and corruption you agree they are scum but still want people to vote for them to give them another 5 years of uninterrupted power
You assert definitively that Sturgeon won’t be there much longer yet Sturgeon has STATED she will serve her full time if elected so one of you is wrong or misleading
Your accusations and smears don’t convince or alter anyone’s opinions when they too can see the rank corruption, incompetence and lies of NS and the SNP
You are well aware I have posted often enough here and elsewhere although I am not a member I have been calling and pleading for the SNP membership to take back control of THEIR party , how has that worked out, yet you are still TELLING people to vote for these undemocratic lunatics in the FAINT VERY FAINT hope they will listen
A lot of people here are saying “Oh we’ll just have to build up other Independence parties for the 2026 HR elections”. FFS! That’s a counsel of defeatism. The time to act is now, not in 5 years time. If Sturgeon gets back in you’ll get GRA, the Thought Crime Bill and hairy Trannies in women’s changing rooms and you’ll have only yourselves to blame.
Act now to overthrow Sturgeon & Co! The MSP candidates are all holding crowdfunders because the SNP are skint. They need to hear that they’ll get no money, volunteers or votes unless they get rid of Sturgeon and Murrell. Without funds or campaign volunteers they’re stuffed and they know it. Faced with electoral disaster they might just grow a spine and vote No Confidence in Sturgeon but they’ll have to do it while Holyrood is still sitting. There’s no time to lose!
I am amazed (i’m not really) at the number of people who are contributing to Swindlers crowdfunder after all his fcukups especially at the harassment inquiry and the education brief
It is unbelievable the amount of desperados intent on getting or remaining on the gravy train that they are begging ordinary people for crowdfunders to get there, some of these people have NO SHAME the ones who are currently on the train like Swindler are despicable with the money they are given
( I nearly said earned but that would be an exaggeration )
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugzwang
The dark queen must be destroyed
@ Boris
So they continued with the meter running for FOUR months after their own counsel told them they hadn’t any prospect of winning. This sounds like lawfare to me, deliberately drawing out litigation in order to drain the other side’s financial resources. If they had succeeded in continuing the JR until Alex was charged with the criminal offences and the JR suspended, Alex may have been unable to fund his defence at the criminal trial already having spent 500K in legal fees for the JR. IMHO that’s exactly what Sturgeon and Evans were banking on. They didn’t count on the Judge ordering a full refund of Alex’s 500K legal bill.
No wonder Leslie Evans is claiming no minutes were kept of the numerous meetings she held with legal counsel. The SG’s behaviour was a complete abuse of the legal process. If this legal advice had been demanded and published by the Inquiry in 2018 Sturgeon and Evans would have been forced to resign.
.
Highland Bill,
I didn’t know you had been married to Nicola Sturgeon 😉
Sounds like you got out of the house just in time.
.
—————————————–
Mac Says….
“Imagine you were sharing a flat with someone you thought you knew, someone you thought cared for you and vice versa, someone you thought you could trust.
Then one night by sheer chance you are awoken by a noise to find them standing over you holding a huge knife. Only at the last moment do you leap to safety.”
Highland Bill says….
“Do you know my ex wife by any chance? With her it was a pair of scissors she tried it with. Her sister took me in for a few days until I got transport organised to take me and the few belongings I had and an mfo box with my army kit I still had to hand back in when my medical discharge was finally sorted, and her sister couldn’t do enough for me.” ?
Stuart – It’s not that any of us want to wait until 2026.
It’s just realising that the SNP have screwed everything up , and being realistic. We have to play with the hand we are dealt with. At the moment we are looking at a likely minority SNP administration for the next 5 years. Are the SNP likely to push through with a referendum?
The time to remove Sturgeon was after the 2019 capitulation, but it never happened. Unless Salmond finds something devastating on her , it’s looking likely she will just keep on lying and keep on conning her supporters.
I think if we can get rid of her then it’s likely during her next 5 year term. Once she drops indy ref 2 , and her policies become even more toxic. Then the movement might be able to pressurise her to resign.
However it needs people within the SNP to step up and force her out, and have a leadership contest. A refreshed SNP with a proper independence FM is what we really need going into 2026.
It’s tragic , absolutely tragic, but this is the damage she has done. What really worries me during the next 5 years , is the damage done to devolution and where independence polling will be after we enter the mother of all recessions.
SNP have lost the plot in many ways right now and the main independence
party must be restructured branch and root.
Do not forget achievements such as free prescriptions, no bridge tolls, higher
pay for nurses, best performing NHS, negation the Bedroom Tax, paying off
Labour’s horrific PPI deals, etc.
I wouldn’t vote for a Unionist / Keep Scotland suppressed party at gun point
and neither will I not vote as it will count as a vote for the Union.
We need the new small independence parties to work together or they will just
dilute their potential.
We work together to deliver or we face unbridled abuse by team Boris for the next 10 years
when England changes over to the Labour’s Photo Copy Tory government with Sir Keir.
You put an X in the Independence box or you get a Tory noose around your neck for ever.
@Kcor,
`There has never been anything worse in the history of Scotland than the Corrupt Criminal in Chief Sturgeon and her criminal gang plotting to put genuine independence leader Alex Salmond in jail to protect their own power.`
How about Robert Bruce stabbing to death Comyn in a church,
that`s one pretty f@cked up way of getting rid of your main political rival,
wonder what BTL comments would be sayin.
Scot or what happened to Mary Queen Of Scots!
That was fundamental in the process which led to the unification of the Crowns and the ultimate sell out of Scotland.
So,
Did the mass gatherings on Sunday no longer happen? I want to get my right-think straight here – I’m practicing for when wrong-think is criminalised – Radio Scotland is reporting everything else and obliviously ignoring the events – at the same time as announcing NS is planning to ease the lockdown – that mass gatherings happened, and they haven’t said anything about getting official responses – at the same time, they are bizarrely saying things like ‘not everyone is obeying the rules’.
Did I miss something? In 3 weeks time when we get a ‘spike’ in cases, do I pretend mass gatherings of destructive Rangers supporters never happened?
I’m asking for a friend, obviously, I don’t personally know anything about mass gatherings.
Great Post at 8.48 Effigy.
Let’s fix things, not commit political suicide.
Contrary – I listed to Sportsound last night. It was 45 minutes before the riot in George Square was mentioned. Then it was a 10 minute chat.
It should have been headline news on a sports broadcast. I seem to remember when the 40 or so neds at Celtic park stood outside the stadium. It was talked about for the whole show and days after.
It’s like it never happened.
Big Jock,
Hm, yes it sound like remembering events on Sunday may be wrong-think after all.
We have a ‘public health crisis’, but major events that put us further into crisis no longer happened. Jolly good, I think I’ll keep isolating for a wee while longer, you know, just to be on the safe side.
Great government response, glad to have them looking after my welfare.
@Scot
Robert said “I don’t know/I wasn’t there/that is not my recollection”.
Comments were split. #ImwithRobert or #ResignRobert
I know matters have moved on somewhat, but I discovered something new (to me anyway) when rereading the released legal advice from Senior and Junior Counsel, dated 17th Dec, in the Document Disclosure section. I’ll go paragraph by paragraph:
‘6. On Tuesday 11 December we met with counsel for the petitioner to discuss their specification of documents with a view to narrowing the scope of any order to be sought. In the course of that meeting, counsel for the petitioner were told that the redactions made to documents already disclosed had been made on the instruction of junior counsel for the respondents. We understood that to be the case.’
So far, so uncontroversial (you would think).
‘7. On Wednesday 12 December, in the course of preparation for the hearing fixed for 14 December, junior counsel identified a redaction that had not been instructed by her. The document redacted was an email chain involving Nicky Richards, [Redacted] and Gillian Russell. Two emails in the chain had been copied to a [Redacted]. We understand that the inclusion of [Redacted] in the email chain was an error arising out of a predictive email address function: [Redacted] intended to copy in Nicky Richards but [Redacted] was copied instead. [Redacted] is a former colleague of [Redacted].
So, 2 things here:
1) Despite junior counsel thinking they are solely in charge of the redaction process, even at this late stage ScotGov are still quietly making their own redactions (of what they think is incriminating?)
2) Counsel are being told that someone had been ‘erroneously’ copied in an email chain. We are told that this is due to a predictive email address function, and the intended email recipient was Nicky Richards. I’m willing to bet the ScotGov email system is based on first name first. My work’s email system (Outlook) only shows recipients I have sent email to before, both internal and external. Given counsel’s later comments (they are “concerned that it will add fuel to the fire of the petitioner’s ‘conspiracy theory'”), for me the redacted recipient can only be Nicola Sturgeon…
‘8. Instead of the unredacted email being supplied to the petitioner’s agents and an explanation provided for the error, the email was redacted. The petitioner’s agents subsequently sought an explanation for the redaction and they were told that the email had been sent to a recipient in error.
Speaks for itself. Cover up.
‘9. The issue had not been specifically flagged with counsel at the time of original disclosure or subsequently (albeit junior counsel had been copied into a draft of an email to the petitioner’s agents that answered a long list of queries about redacted documents and which made reference to an email having been wrongly addressed).
10. When this issue was identified on Wednesday 12 December an immediate and clear direction was given that the unredacted email should be disclosed to the petitioner’s agents in advance of the hearing on Friday 14 December. It was intended that the disclosure should be made at the same time as a small number of additional documents, identified in the course of further searches and including an email that we had not previously seen from Ms A to the Permanent Secretary of 3 November 2018 indicating support for the Permanent Secretary’s announcement of the review of harassment policies and expressing views on the content of that review, were also to be disclosed.
11. Disclosure was thought to be essential not only on grounds of candour but to try to defuse what we feared would be the reaction of the petitioner to the unredacted email. It is an email chain in which Gillian Russell asks questions of Judith Mackinnon about the circumstances in which complaints of harassment should be reported to the Police and is in the context of wider exchanges about the developing policy for handling complaints against ministers and former ministers. We were (and remain) concerned that it will add fuel to the fire of the petitioner’s ‘conspiracy theory’.’
There it is. AS and Levy & Macrae are going to hit the roof.
’12 We were both committed to other matters on Thursday 13 December (junior counsel being engaged in a debate in another matter for Scottish Government). On the evening of 13 December,
having reviewed emails that had been sent in the course of the day, junior counsel asked for confirmation that (as it appeared) the unredacted email had not been disclosed. That confirmation
was given together with an explanation that there was a concern about the GDPR implications of releasing an email with an addressee outside of Scottish Government‘ (my emphasis)
Still covering and failing in their duty of candour. Now there is an another interesting aspect, a mention of the email address being outside of ScotGov (it can only be the redacted address). Nicola Sturgeon still using her SNP email for Govt business? No wonder they have to maintain the address was copied in by mistake.
And so on the collapse of ScotGov’s case:
’13. No advice had been sought from us about this issue and we had not been told proactively about the non-disclosure.
14. After considerable discussion on Friday morning, we reached the view that we could not properly advise the Court that the Scottish Government had discharged its duty of candour. We sought and received instructions that the motion for commission and diligence should be conceded. In advance of the hearing, and in an effort to minimise any damaging comment that might be made
by counsel for the petitioner, we disclosed the unredacted email to counsel for the petitioners, tendered the explanation that had been given to us about the error and agreed to ‘lead’ in the hearing.
15. In the event senior counsel for the petitioner did not make reference in open court to the further disclosure. However, in relation to the motion more generally, senior counsel for the respondents felt bound to make the early concession that the petitioner was justifiably able to say that he was not satisfied that searches are exhausted. Lord Pentland asked senior counsel for the petitioner whether the petitioner’s concern that essentially for whatever reason the Scottish Government may not have carried out an entirely comprehensive search of any possible place where documents may be held. Senior counsel for the petitioner, of course, concurred.’
I’m not clear what date the disputed email is from, but would be very interesting if it was NS’s email address it was sent to and it happened to be before 29th March???
I see the ISP have listed their regional (list) candidates. They say no big hitters but ordinary people who want independence.
Had a brief look and only faintly recognise two. It would be helpful to get feedback. If you tabtheir name you get a statement in single file layout. They obviously need IT assistance.
Let us shine light and hopefully see hope!
Kcor says:
9 March, 2021 at 12:12 am
ScotsRenewables says,
Quote:-
“You don’t know much about the history of Scotland, do you?”
No, but probably more than you do.
But more important, unlike you, I am not trying to fool people into voting for the corrupt, criminal led, totally undemocratic New SNP.
What do you think about the SNP not releasing the voting figures for the recent regional list selections?
What do you think of the favoured fake ‘disabled’ and outsider ‘BAME’ candidates undemocratically and illegally pushed to the top of the lists?
He’s a sturgeon shrill, a sleekit one mind ..
If you take the deliberate targeting of Salmond , Murray, Hirst and Cherry plus the unpopular polices of the hate crime bill and woke, there was always only going to be one loser, independence. The SNP without doubt have deliberately tried to make themselves unpopular which can only affect the strive for independence.
So why on earth would they do that when all the polls suggested a rise in the yes vote.
There can only be one conclusion and that is there has been an orchestrated plan constructed by forces underneath the umbrella of Westminster who have infiltrated the SNP. We have always known that under no circumstances was Scotland ever going to be allowed to leave the union.
ScotsRenewables says: at 9:17 am
“Let’s fix things, not commit political suicide.”
Grand stuff, but could you possibly inform us as to how we do that when so many decent members and importantly activists have now left the party because it was clear it had crossed into areas that were so dark they couldn’t remain members because they actually have some ethical and democratic standards?
Here’s Denise Findlay explaining the restructuring of the Party which effectively dis-empowered the members’ ability to influence change.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/how-to-make-a-coup/
Here’s Joan Hutcheson’s recent experience with the new NEC.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-brick-wall/
We still can’t even get an explanation on where the ring fenced Indy fund is from the new Treasurer.
Call me old fashioned, but I am somewhat dubious we should keep voting to support and maintain the positions of the very folk that led us into this skipfire.
ISP Regional List Candidates.
https://www.isp.scot/regional-candidates-may-2021/
@Big Jock,
`There has never been anything worse in the history of Scotland than the Corrupt Criminal in Chief Sturgeon`
also,
the Glencoe massacre by the cursed Campbells.
“An abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation, is normal behaviour.”
Victor Frankl
Effigy @8:48
“You put an X in the Independence box or you get a Tory noose around your neck for ever.”
Absolutely!
Trouble is, the only place you’ll see a so called “Independence box” is on the Regional ballot.
You’ll only get boxes for pro-Union and/or pro-Devolution parties on the Constituency ballot, and therein lies the problem…
There are no pro-Independence parties on the Constituency ballot – only the one that claims to be such, but whose current performance and recent behaviour under the present “leadership” is evidence to the contrary.
“However to get a majority of votes for a plebiscite then it needs the SNP to support it”
No political party needs the consent nor the support of the SNP or any other political party to put in their manifesto a mandate to end the union. The only thing that is required is for that party to want to do it.
You don’t need a lot of parties to offer a plebiscite. You just need ONE. Once you have ONE, the goalpost has been changed forever and reverted to the original, which is what we need here. All what we have had ever since that policy was changed in the SNP is obfuscation and making independence more difficult. This policy change has not benefited Scotland at all. It has only benefitted the British state.
Telling us that until the SNP supports it there is no plebiscite or no party can actually include that mandate in their manifesto is the same as telling us that those parties do not want independence and are only here to boost the SNP by handing them seats by the back door.
The SNP do not get to call the shots. The electorate does. At a time it is evident indyref is not the route to take us to independence, not including that mandate for independence in the manifesto is deliberately denying the voters of the choice of independence. It is deliberately delaying our right to self determination. Telling us that we need a mandate for indyref or a mandate for a plebiscite is the exact same con: an attempt to delay us exercising our choice.
Either these parties support independence or they don’t. They cannot seriously support independence if all what they are aiming to do is simply to boost a no pro-independence SNP supremacy in Holyrood and then handing over to the SNP all power of decisions.
Your support for independence cannot be held to ransom by another political party, in the same way the right of a country to be independent cannot be held to ransom by the interests of another country. Because if you let it be then you really never wanted independence in the first place.
The indyref route, which Mr Salmond opened for us as a viable alternative, has been barricaded by Sturgeon, who deliberately blocked it by welding it to a fabricated veto she handed over to England to deny us our self determination.
The majority of seats = mandate for independence is the way to go. It is a tested route that has withstood the test of time. So why not using it?
Why would any serious pro independence party seek to get a majority support in Holryood before going for a plebiscite when the only thing they need to do to go for that plebiscite is to include a mandate for independence in their manifesto? Why waiting years for something when you can have it in less than 2 months?
No plebiscite? No vote
There are those who argue we MUST vote SNP to get a pro-indy majority in Holyrood.
I am unconvinced by this as a “strategy” to achieve independence.
My reasons:
1. I wouldn’t trust the SNP to run a bath, nevermind a referendum.
The official YES campaign in the 2014 referendum was poor, even with Salmond as FM. It was the grassroots and Wings’ Wee Blue Book that increased support for YES.
In the six years plus, what has the SNP / Scot Govt done to address the failures of the 2014 campaign? The short answer is nothing. They raised £600,000 that disappeared. The Weirs largely funded the Yes campaign in 2014. That won’t happen again and the SNP is skint.
2. In contrast, the Imperials have upped their game. They were poor online in 2014. Now they flood comments sections with their propaganda. They now have greater censorship of the internet such as Twitter and Facebook.
3. The SNP now actively help the enemies of indy: the mainstream media: £3 million (?) to foreign media who actively attack Scottish independence on a daily basis. How much did the SNP give to wee pro-independence Scottish media outlets?
4. The SNP Scottish Government itself has tried to block Martin Keatings from establishing that Holyrood has the power to hold indyrefs. It’s there in black and white legal documents. It’s fact, not opinion. The Scot Govt and Lord Advocate were on the same side as the UK Govt in the ongoing case.
5. The SNP ran a campaign for years of stop British Brexit, it made no real attempt to upholding Scotland’s decision to remain. Their campaign decisions have been a total failure.
6. The SNP have targetted pro-indy people: Alex Salmond, Craig Murray, Grouse Beater, Mark Hirst, Manny Singh. And of course, Stu Campbell and Wings. The SNP attack Wingers as fascists who are incompatible with the SNP.
7. My opinion is that the SNP are now Unionists, Colonial administrators. Enemies of Scottish sovereignty. Enemies of the restoration of Scottish independence. Sturgeon’s SNP are now the saviours of the Union.
8. It has not even been established that Holyrood can hold an indyref.
So, the ISP and AFI telling people to vote SNP in the constituency and a pro-indy party in the List to obtain independence is at best misleading. They should be telling people: Don’t vote SNP. Don’t vote for ANY Unionist party such as the SNP or Tories or Labour or LibDems.
Colin, who do we vote for then?
The small independence parties can’t cope with trying for your first vote.
They don’t have the funds, manpower or the support to dream about that.
There are only Unionist parties beyond that and they have no respect for democracy
or Scotland’s needs or wishes. We just don’t matter.
Whatever Red or Blue Tory England wants Scotland gets!
There are many here talking about not voting or even the absurdity of voting Boris.
All that can do is take us further away from independence.
I’d start off with a caveman as Scotland’s first Prime Minister if need be.
Once we control our own destiny the future is in our hands.
@Holder of suspicions: “The ISP and AFI will really need to work together like adults or frankly us anti-SNP independence supporters are no better than what we’re trying to replace. I mean letting petty squabbling, careerism and personality politics trump strategy and principle.”
They aren’t going to work together and they don’t care a f**k. Accept it and move on.
It’s RISE vs the Scottish Christian Party all over again – the rabid Trots vs the rabid prudes – except now we also have Renew Scotland, Red Party of Scotland (run by some student politico hipster weirdo from StrathTech wanting an independent Marxist republic), Scotland Unhyphenated (!), Scotland’s Independence Referendum Party, Scottish Democrats and Scotia Future all proffering themselves too as our new messiahs to the promised land where our nation and Third Lanark will rise again.
Eight wannabes versus the established parties. Granted, not all fighting all the Lists, but most people won’t know or care about this – and that’s not even counting all the other parties with their own splits (inc. the inevitable 57 Varieties of Marxism) with their own slates of candidates, and by the time of the election, most voters will face a ballot paper looking like your average supermarket till receipt where only one line is of interest and the rest is advertising blurb or “special offers”?
Here’s what will happen. Mr and Mrs Average “Too Pissed Off With The SNP and the Greens To Vote For Them This Time But Will Never Forgive Labour Or The Tories For X,Y and Z” will take one look at their List ballot paper, feel one of their heads coming on and after a minute sigh and vote Scottish Liberal Democrats – the Official Party of The Don’t Know/Wilfully Clueless vote for thirty three years.
When a ballot paper is too full of filler, the undecided always vote vanilla.
@StuartM: “If Sturgeon gets back in you’ll get GRA, the Thought Crime Bill and hairy Trannies in women’s changing rooms and you’ll have only yourselves to blame.”
More Scots care about the latest bullshit about the Old Firm and the self-pity of a Z-list actress of some royal than they do any of the above, and sadly they will continue to do so until it bites them in the arse.
Sometimes all you can do is allow events to take their course because people won’t listen (the electorate as well as wannabe “messiahs”) Sometimes the school of hard knocks is the only way they learn to work together.
Colin Alexander says:
“So, the ISP and AFI telling people to vote SNP in the constituency and a pro-indy party in the List to obtain independence is at best misleading. They should be telling people: Don’t vote SNP. Don’t vote for ANY Unionist party such as the SNP or Tories or Labour or LibDems.”
————————————————————————————————————————
From an arithmetic point of view the SNP winning more constituencies increases ISP/AFI chances of winning list seats. The same holds true for the Greens. So it is no surprise that they would all advocate voting SNP on the constituency votes.
Unfortunately from my point of view and many of us here; if the SNP win less constituencies then the Wokists plants on the list seats have more chance of getting elected. That is the extent to which we are fucked. We are more fucked because ISP/AFI don’t look as if they are going to cooperate.
It is the case that we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t in the constituency vote.
Why we put up with this I’ll never know as a nuke convoy passed through Scotland’s largest city Glasgow on Friday.
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/unmarked-military-convoy-carrying-nuclear-19984204
Mark Boyle says at 10.33
Good analysis there, maybe Stu could take a hand here and sort out the ISP/AFI thing with some facts that get them thinking straight.
There is no doubt that football’s importance in Scotland is totally out of proportion to it’s actual importance.
The Rangers fans using the excuse that they couldn’t obey the law because their team won a stupid trophy. Is patent nonsense , and shows just how thick they really are.
Get a fecking grip said the rest of civilised Scotland.
There are many people in Scotland who live their lives vicariously through football, the royals, Big fucking brother . It’s all a crock of shit.
Elmac says:
9 March, 2021 at 12:40 am
Ian More @ 11.59pm
“Anybody here who advocates a Tory vote directly or indirectly can fuck right off. I wouldn’t wish those blood sucking vampires on anybody. They will almost certainly destroy the NHS in Scotland if they get their hands on it. That is just one of the nasty policies they have in mind of that I have no doubt.
There has to be a way to give the SNP a good kick in the ass without handing our Country totally over to the Scot hating Tories.”
What would you propose? There is only one way of to give them enough of a kick and that is to kick them out of power. Don’t think for a minute that the NHS in Scotland is safe under the current set up. If Boris and his pals want to sell the whole Shebang they will do so. If they have to they will disband Holyrood to do it. They already have more than enough ammo to do it thanks to the corrupt crap emanating from the SNP. As I said above, the shortest route to obtaining our independence and freeing ourselves form this vampire union is to vote the SNP out of office and get a real independence party up and running. The SNP are beyond saving and will NEVER deliver independence.
——————————————————————————————————————–
I was asking or trying to ask a sensible question because I don’t have the answers. I was hoping somebody might have a “rational” suggestion. Why make it easier for the Tories?
To let the anti Scottish Tory Yoons and their allies/stooges have a free run for 5 years doesn’t help Scotland at all. I guess by the sounds of it you are another individual who never had to suffer living under Thatchers Rule pre-devolution. Do you hate your fellow Scots that much?
Mia @ 10:10
The objective of the independence movement and pro-indy parties should be to secure a majority of votes in a national plebiscite in favour of independence.
Such a plebiscite could be based on national outcomes in either the constituency vote or the regional list vote; both provide for distinct measurable national votes.
Who wins most seats in a UK devolved Holyrood would seem of less relevance given that a democratic national vote in favour of independence, and a political declaration to that effect, renders the present UK-Holyrood parliament and the UK-Scotland Act void.
Hence the need for a national election for the new sovereign Scottish parliament within a short period thereafter, and perhaps a provisional coalition leadership arrangement until that election.
Scottish Renewable
You are a thick Sturgeon Ultra.
Because somebody tactically votes in ONE Constituency to remove the leader of the corrupt SNP, doesn’t mean that that Party is going to get voted in as the majority Party in the May election.
So If I voted for Scottish Labour in Glasgow Southside, it doesn’t mean Scottish Labour are going to become the ruling Party in Scotland.
All we are doing is removing ONE MSP, who just happens to be that bastard Sturgeon.
Now if we can remove Sturgeon, it would go a long way towards getting us back on the road to Independence.
But your head is so far up Sturgeon’s arse that you can’t see it.
You are a dyed in the wool Sturgeonista.
The Wee Gingerbread Man is waiting on you,,,so why not head over there.
“Your types” hang out over there, or how about the Greens? They also accept wankers.
As long as the constant squirrels of Celtic and Rangers exist, politics in Scotland will always be just so much Swiss cheese, in which timid political mice feed and nest, largely undisturbed by public scrutiny.
I remember 25 years ago or more at one of the Scottish elections, one candidates manifesto leaflet was almost exactly in line with my own views. That’ll do for me I thought – I was not a hard core activist, but thought myself reasonably well read up on politics and current affairs.
I lived about 400 yards from the school/library which was the polling place so I must have got there within about three minutes.
However by the time I got my ballot paper, to my dismay there were about eight similar parties on it all with random titles of buzzwords Scottish Socialist Progress Alliance Independence Forward Action, and even the candidates had similar names, I ended up just not bothering, having also read some of the other manifesto leaflets and noting that some were definite cranks not needing encouraging.
`There has never been anything worse in the history of Scotland than the Corrupt Criminal in Chief Sturgeon`
The Darien Scheme
Massacre of Glencoe
Battle of Culloden
Butcher Cumberland
Highland Clearances
Churchill’s tanks on George Square
Anthrax Island
Nukes with 25 miles of Glasgow
The Suppression of The McCrone Report
George Cunningham’s sabotage of the first Devolution referendum
Jack McConnell’s £1 billion underspend.
Rangers and Celtic
The Board of Governors of Glasgow School of Art
Andrew Neil the media bigwig
etc.
ISP – under Policies – they aim to call for another indy ref asap.
So, no plebiscite then – other than a poxy petition.
I very much want to vote for ISP, but I’m not setting up another party to ‘do an SNP’ on me.
We should make May election one that puts Plebiscite on the voters radar, and then campaign like buggery to make the next GE – the defacto winner.
Won’t be fulled again.
Anybody else remember the Pensioner’s Party.
I wonder if they would have been for Indy?
Big Jock,
“There are many people in Scotland who live their lives vicariously through football, the royals, Big fucking brother . It’s all a crock of shit.”
I agree with you but it has always been thus and it’s our own fault. Bread and circuses.
I’m a lifelong Rangers fan, Scottish nationalist, and have been a republican for around the last decade, having had zero interest in Royalty before. Just like to remind everyone that Rangers is a football club. Yes, there are bigots, the orange faction, and other unpleasant factions that attach itself to the club – as there are for all big institutions – in both sport and politics.
They are my local team and there are a lot of people in the south-west of Glasgow and beyond who support them and independence, and have no interest in the Irish or religious aspects. It’s funny how many people on here accuse the media of bias, yet believe every smear they hear about Rangers.
Independence needs as much support as it can get, so be careful who you alienate. And to the bigots on here – you can fuck right off.
Thanks Dan at 9:52 am:
ISP Regional List Candidates.
https://www.isp.scot/regional-candidates-may-2021/
I’ll take a look.
LP,
You are correct that there are many Rangers fans that support independence and that it is unhelpful to tar them all with the same brush.
An independent Scotland is to the benefit of everyone living here.
Here we go. Scotland is about to become a Police state.
Doesn’t matter that the majority don’t favour the HCB.We’re getting it anyway.
SNP 1&2? In that case we’re all getting self ID GRA reform.
To the men (and it is mainly men) who think this topic is a mere side issue, well fine it ain’t you who will be showering with ‘chick’s wi dicks’ at the local gym, is it?
https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,chilling-effect-how-the-hate-crime-bill-threatens-free-speech
If people don’t vote SNP on the List vote, the SNP will get no List MSPs, no matter how many constituency seats the SNP win or lose.
e.g Zero votes for the SNP on the List, where every vote counts because it is not reduced by the co-efficient, is still zero votes.
——————————————————
Further to my earlier post, at 10.14am, I would like to clarify that my opinion that independence supporters should not vote SNP at all, applies to the situation as it CURRENTLY stands. (Sturgeon retaining the leadership remains uncertain).
But, until it’s established that Holyrood has the power to hold indyrefs without UK State approval,
OR
a majority of MSP candidates seek a direct mandate to dissolve the Union, I would suggest promises of an indyref should not be the main influence with regard to who to vote for.
E.g. If a party only seeks a mandate for a Holyrood indyref, this should not be a reason to vote for them, unless it has ALREADY been established not only that they would have the ability to deliver an indyref without a s30 Order but ALSO they would be likely to win it.
Suilven, like you, I guessed that the email was addressed to NS when I read that stuff last week. Quite a lot springs from that supposition, but I don’t believe in mistakes.
Regarding dates, this tells you everything you need to know;
“It is an email chain in which Gillian Russell asks questions of Judith Mackinnon about the circumstances in which complaints of harassment should be reported to the Police and is in the context of wider exchanges about the developing policy for handling complaints against ministers and former ministers.”
If you are familiar with the sequencing and stages of development, you’ll have a pretty good idea of when that email was sent based on the above.
Of course, The petitioner will know too. The petitioner will have seen the unredacted email, the names, the dates, and everything else.
Ian More @ 10.52am
And I gave a rational answer. Barring a miracle we are faced with 5 more years of Sturgeon or 5 years of a unionist coalition at Holyrood. I want neither but the worst option is that Sturgeon stays in power. If she does we will be in an even worse position in 5 years time and, in all probability, sites like this will not be allowed to exist. You ain’t seen nothing yet in terms of what this evil wee lassie is capable of.
My involvement with the SNP goes back to 1970 and the days of Willie Wolfe. So yes, I did live through the Thatcher years and no, I do not hate my fellow Scots. We both want independence for our country, civility costs nothing and makes your comments more likely to be read.
@ Suilven
I have a real problem with the lawyers for one side censoring the documents they are required to provide under their duty of disclosure. We’ve all seen from the documents submitted to the Parliamentary Inquiry how they can be redacted to an extent they become meaningless. If I was in Salmond’s lawyers’ shoes I would want to see the document in full, not just what the SG wants me to see. Perhaps a lawyer reading this might explain on what basis censoring of documents subpoenad by the other side is permissible.
However, full marks to Roddy McDowell and his co-counsel for standing up for disclosure. No matter how politely phrased these communications from counsel may be, you get a real sense of the counsels’ rising fury about the way their client has been playing them for fools and being made to look fools in court. You sense that they are realising that the conspiracy theory is rapidly hardening into fact before their eyes.
One small point: the last memo you quoted is some time before the SG collapsed the case in the first week of January. My reading of this is that the SG was opposing a Commission of Diligence which AS had requested due to the SG’s failure to provide full disclosure of documents. The latest belated production of yet more documents after previously swearing that they had made full disclosure had left the SG’s counsel no choice but to withdraw the opposition to the Commission. So it was the collapse of their opposition to the Commission that occurred at that point rather than the total case before the JR, which came later just before New Year when the counsels declared the SG’s case unstateable.
Regarding the redacted names, the only reason I can think of is that they represent the names of complainants at the criminal trial that are being redacted under the LA’s absurd interpretation of the anonymity order. If so it suggests that people who were at the time or later became complainants were involved in drafting the policy under which they made their complaints! Curiouser and curiouser. In that case the person “outside the SG” copied on the email might be a Spad in Sturgeon’s office who was also a complainant at the trial, which explains why their name is redacted. I think the Spads would be classified as Parliament staff rather than SG staff and thus “outside the SG”.
By this reasoning, the mystery person can’t be Sturgeon because:
1) as FM Sturgeon is most emphatically part of the SG; and
2) she wasn’t one of the complainants
I also don’t think Sturgeon would want to be directly receiving email updates on the progress of the policy given the efforts she made to supposedly distance herself from it. However, if one of her Spads was monitoring the progress and verbally reporting to her, that would give Sturgeon “plausible deniability” of involvement.
Alternatively, the e-mail sender may have just clicked on the wrong e-mail chain: it’s happened before. But where would the fun be in that?
StuartM, you make a few wrong assumptions here.
“the only reason I can think of is that they represent the names of complainants at the criminal trial that are being redacted under the LA’s absurd interpretation of the anonymity order. ”
The above is verifiably wrong since all this occurred before the criminal trial had been formally instigated.
“If so it suggests that people who were at the time or later became complainants were involved in drafting the policy under which they made their complaints!”
We already knew that the complainers had been involved in the drafting of the new procedure – that however has little/nothing to do with this particular facet of the story.
“In that case the person “outside the SG” copied on the email might be a Spad in Sturgeon’s office… I think the Spads would be classified as Parliament staff rather than SG staff and thus “outside the SG”.”
If you read more carefully you’ll see that the email address non-Governmental but that doesn’t mean the actual recipient was.
Also, SPADs are considered part of the Government, as I understand it, they are Government advisors (distinct from other civil servants because they play are more political role, but Government/civil service employees nontheless). Further to that, there would in theory be nothing controversial about a SPAD being the recipient here.
I’d be willing to bet that the recipient referred to was NS. And, as I said, the petitioner will of course know if that’s true or not. The fact that it causes such a stir suggests it was very controversial. Will we ever be able to prove or disprove it?
re oneliner:
You are also forgetting Churchill’s betrayal of the 51st at St Valery.
Thanks Hatuey and Stuart M for the comments. Couple of followup points from me – the redactions in the joint counsel advice are from SG Legal Dept and signed off by Swinney and I think other examples have shown they are often very tenuously connected to complainant names, if at all. Also, in paragraph 10, one of the original complainants is referred to as Ms A and therefore I think we can conclude the original 2 complainants would already be anonymised throughout counsels’ advice.
I agree with Hatuey that SPADs are considered part of ScotGov for the reasons he gives. My reading of “addressee outside of Scottish Government” was that it related to an email address outside the gov.scot domain, not the recipient’s position, but I recognise I could be wrong and the alternative meaning could be right.
One part I struggle with is the last line of paragraph 7 ‘[Redacted] is a former colleague of [Redacted]’. One of the redacteds is clearly the owner of the mysterious ‘mistaken’ email address. But ‘AS is a former colleague of NS’ or vice versa would appear a fatuous statement in the context of the advice.
Because it has become a borefest……….. TE
weemonkey says,
“He’s a sturgeon shrill, a sleekit one mind ..”
I know.
twathater says,
“Scotsrenewables I have responded to your posts over the past year where you at the start defended Sturgeon and the SNP vigorously claiming that we were all just yoons and trolls, now you have seen the lies and corruption you agree they are scum but still want people to vote for them to give them another 5 years of uninterrupted power”
He is still a diehard Sturgeonist. He does not agree they are scum. He is just trying to fool people into voting for the SNP.
oneliner says:
9 March, 2021 at 11:09 am,
Put those events into context and the times and circumstances during which they happened.
Compare that to Alex Salmond democratically and in peaceful times almost leading Scotland to independence
Mentoring Sturgeon for thirty years and handing power to her on a golden plate.
That same Sturgeon completely betraying the cause for independence.
When Scotland could have become independent while the politicians of England delivered Brexit to England.
Do you seriously believe that what she did since the announcement of the Brexit vote was anything other than deliberately preventing Scottish independence to protect her own position of power?
That she plotted to put an innocent Alex Salmond in jail when she thought he might pose a threat to her power.
None of the events you mentioned have deliberately hindered Scottish independence as this evil woman has.
All those events were terrible events.
But remind me, how many times has Scotland defended and demanded independence?
If Sturgeon’s betrayal had happened during those times, she would have been burned at the stake.
I am against the death penalty but this evil woman and her corrupt criminal cabal should be jailed for a very long period of time.
She is the most wicked woman to have ever lived in Scotland, IMHO.
@ Hatuey @ Suilven
Hatuey you are missing the point that these documents have been through 2 rounds of redactions, the first when the Junior Counsel reviewed them when they were to be disclosed at the JR and the second by the SG when they were submitted to the Parliamentary Inquiry. Given the wholesale way the SG has redacted names of complainants wherever they appear (and one complainant in particular) I think the redaction of names happened in the second round ie in the last few days. Redacting Sturgeon’s name would be a bit of a stretch of the anonymity order, however they did it with Alex’s written statement so nothing would surprise me with these crooks.
Secondly, Holyrood staff are civil servants for purposes of salary and benefits but for performance of their duties they are answerable to the Parliament (presumably to the Presiding Officer via the senior Parliamentary Clerk) not to Leslie Evans. For that reason I think they might be classified as “non-SG”. Spads are political appointees so clearly non-government. Why would they be copying emails to an address outside the Civil Service if not to a Minister’s office?
As I’ve said before Sturgeon has been at pains to appear divorced from the whole affair. I doubt she’d have let there be an electronic trail contradicting that position. Besides, under what circumstances would a middle manager be copying the First Minister on details of a policy development, surely that’s the job and at the discretion of the Permanent Head? However LE might well have told her subordinate to keep one of the FM’s Spads updated, hence their name on the email group list, and conceivably the Spad would have had an SNP email address in addition to a Scot.gov one.
I wrote to the new Argyll and Bute candidate Jenni Minto. After 3 attempts on the contact page on the SNP (it doesn’t appear to work) i finally managed to get her e-mail address from present candidate to which she replied.
Please could someone on twitter pass this on to Denise Findlay.
I wrote about my concerns about women’s rights as this manifesto.
https://womenspeakscotlandcom.files.wordpress.com/2021/03/wss_manifesto_2021.pdf
The heading of my e-mail was ‘IWD2021’
The reply heading from her was changed to ‘Re: Human Rights’.
Ahum. Not changing the narrative much then.
‘Dear Prasad
Thank you for your email.
My underlying belief is that Scotland should be a tolerant, progressive and welcoming country, which treats everyone with respect. It is the way my parents brought me up and the way I have tried to conduct my life.
Human Rights are constantly under review, which I think is important for society to do, after all it is a human concept. However, I do not think that rights already gained should be diminished in any way.
The pot of Human Rights needs to be expanded; I liken it to the love my brother has for his children when his second one arrived, his love didn’t halve, it doubled.
I have done a lot of research into the Gender Recognition Act, reading articles, listening to podcasts and speaking to people on both sides of the debate, to try to understand the arguments. My overriding view that this is a subject that requires compassion and kindness from everyone.
I think the Scottish Government has a responsibility to listen to all views, and I was pleased to see that Shirley Ann Somerville introduced a pause in the legislation to allow just that.
If I am selected and then elected it will be my responsibility to ensure I represent all constituent’s views to Ministers.
With best wishes
Jenni’
I wrote back asking more specific questions (prisons, gender clinics, school grooming) because this is just airy-fairy nonsense verging on the religious which no one could disagree with but answers none of the concerns raised by womenspeakscotland.
If i get a rely that goes into more detail i will come back with it.
.
It is written in the detail of the current Hate Crime and Public Order Bill that if/when enacted, its “commencement date” is just one day after receiving Royal Assent.
I suspect Stuart is writing and article right now on that fucking awful piece of legislation brought into life by political pygmies and enacted by cowards. The Sturgeonite McWokists such as that American prison officer who paid no taxes in the U.K. Yet he came here and had a dose of his/her medical bills paid by the U.K. NHS to transition (fair enough). But like so many Americans they take things far too far and he repays this open-border welcome from Scotland by killing off our right to become Independent.
Very very soon, we are talking about days, Scotland will become a hugely litigious country, we will be the 51st State of the US and in a helluva state. People will be frightened to speak.
Almost no one here, other than the website owner seems to have read the Hate Crime Bill in it’s current format.
One of the most alarming things is Humza Yousaf chose the Tory lunatic Adam Tompkins to be the Convenor of the committee guiding tha toxic corrosive legislation through Holyrood.
Does anyone on here TRUST Adam Tompkins?
Yet the future of Holyrood has been given in part to a Conservative Yoon who hates the place and want it closed down.
After watching today’s Hate Crime committee evidence with the American Trans Right Activist Skyping in from South Africa where she is staying (doesn’t like Scottish winters), the transgender rights campaigner, with her network and Humza with Sturgeon and their new best friend arch Holyrood-phobe Adam Tompkins we are seeing, in real time, the destruction of the YES movement.
Nicola Sturgeon is are enabling the law that will toxify and terminally congest the Scottish legal and political system for a decade.
The genius in all this, and whoever came up with the plan from London really does deserve a knighthood, is we Scots shall, in a few days, have been neutered from talking about 70% of politics because places such as Wings Over Scotland and Stuart Campbell are being put in harm’s way. Up to 7 years in jail.
I fear the next article by Stuart will be his valedictory speech.
Same for Craig Murray, if he hasn’t wordy been sent to prison or given an ankle tracker and harsh licence release conditions (no internet).
If Stuart Campbell is writing a series of farewell articles, no one could blame him. He has given 10 years to helping Scotland achieve independence. He must be scunnered.
Alex Salmond has given his life. He almost gave of his liberty. I don’t think it is fair to ask Alex Salmond to risk 7 years in jail when faced with ORWELLIAN laws in Scotland that get you 7 years in jail on UNCORROBORATED evidence.
Folks, enjoy your BTL. I fear our country is going to have another Poll Tax experiment. This time it is highly engineered to kill of IndyRef2 for at least 10 years but more likely 20 years as the way the new laws are written, we have to go through a Spanish Trans Law cleanup and then a Catelonia style repair of the YES movement.
God bless the women who put ribbons of protest at a shitty MSPs door.
You saw the manufactured “perception” of “hate” as reported at the top of this page. That simple sentence means THOSE RIBBONS OF TERROR WILL CARRY A SEVEN YEAR JAIL SENTENCE BY THE END OF THIS MONTH.
I’ve worked in Belfast in the 1980s and have seen what happens when a Tory Government want to fuck up one of its most presious dominions. London will not let Scotland go. You have just witnessed a masterclass in how to kill off and Independence movement.
Sadly they HAVE said fuck the jocks when it comes to the law of unintended consequences. I do not want the Befasting of Scotland for my grandkids.
Over to you Stu., and if we don’t BTL again, thanks for all that you’ve done.
P.S. stay in Bath. There will be extradition treaties between Scotland and England in due course, but best stay away from this soon to be toxic place that will become the first 1984 First-world nation on earth.
As the late, great Ronnie Barker said…. “It’s goodbye from me”.
“ LP says on 9/3 1135 “ agree with your assessment. In the North of Scotland I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of BOTH sets of Old Firm fans have previously recently backed the SNP . With the Independence vote of 2014 , I have no doubt that a substantial minority of Rangers fans voted Yes and very probably a majority of Celtic fans voted yes . With recent polls showing independence support in the mid fifties ( until the recent Holyrood enquiry shambles) , I would suggest that a majority of both sides of the “ Old Firm support “ would be PRO YES . In fact if we ever get a second referendum I would suggest that would have to be the case for an Independence “YES MAJORITY “ Win. Every Old firm fan has a family , brothers, sisters, grannies, grandads, aunts , uncles, cousins, mams dads, ie FAMILIES!! We need every vote we can muster if we ever get a “ plebiscite vote”