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Wings Over Scotland


The last and final request

Posted on March 04, 2021 by

We thought readers might like a look at the draft SNP manifesto introduction (written, we hear, by Mike Russell) that’s currently being passed around branches for comment.

So here it is.

We thought it best to present it to you exactly as it came to us, so it is with the gravest regret that we must inform you that it’s stuffed full of the curse of the modern amateur writer, Words that Have been Randomly and Inconsistently Capitalised despite Not in any Sense whatsoever being Proper Nouns.

We hope they won’t get in the way too much, and that at some point a sub-editor will explain to someone that “MSPs” doesn’t have a sodding apostrophe in it.

We pledge to Protect
Scotland’s Parliament
and
honour the will of the Scottish People.

Since at least 1320 it has been the accepted legal position in Scotland that it is the People of Scotland that are Sovereign and that all power wielded by our government is devolved to it by the People and with the consent of the People.

The form that government takes has changed many times in the intervening 700 years but the principle remains the same, all power flows ultimately from the People and their consent to be so governed.

Just over 20 years ago the People of Scotland instructed the UK parliament in Westminster to further devolve some of the powers they grant to it to a new Parliament closer to home at Holyrood.

A mere 6 years ago the People of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to make that parliament in Holyrood permanent, to never have its powers reduced, undermined, or removed by Westminster without their consent. Indeed they voted to greatly increase those powers and to enshrine in law the Sewell Convention that enforces Holyrood’s primacy over Westminster with respect to its devolved powers.

Since that date many new powers have come to Holyrood but the Tory government in Westminster, that has no Scottish mandate, has repeatedly chipped away at the powers of Holyrood and passed laws with devolved impacts over the express rejection of those laws by the Scottish People’s representatives both in Holyrood and Westminster. It has ignored the Scottish People’s elected representatives who voted against every single step of the EU Referendum process and has dragged Scotland out of the EU despite a clear instruction from the Scottish People not to do so.

With this manifesto the Scottish National Party explicitly seeks the authority of the People of Scotland to enact laws that protect the powers of the Parliament at Holyrood from further erosion, that enshrine in law the principle that Westminster may not pass laws that alter devolved law in Scotland without the consent of the Parliament at Holyrood or the consent of the Scottish People expressed in a clear referendum on the matter, and may call referendums on expanding the devolved powers of the Scottish Parliament at any time, referendums that will carry the full force of the Sovereignty of the Scottish People.

Should the political parties that support this call represent a majority of Members of the Scottish Parliament after this election that will be interpreted as clear authority from the Sovereign Body in Scotland to enact said reforms protecting the Parliament at Holyrood and guaranteeing that the People of Scotland will always henceforth have the opportunity to express their wishes in a legally binding manner.

Hold a referendum
on
Scotland’s Future.

In 2016 the Scottish National Party sought election and formed a government in Scotland on the promise that should there be a sustained majority in favour of Independence or a material change in circumstances to those that prevailed in 2014, like being dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish People, we would seek to hold a further referendum on whether Scotland should become an Independent Nation again and chart its own course as part of the European family of Nations by the end of that parliament.

As each of those conditions has been met repeated requests have been made to Westminster to enable that referendum by temporarily devolving the power to explicitly do so through a Section 30 order as defined in the Scotland Act.

This manifesto represents our last and final request for those powers that the People of Scotland clearly voted for in 2016 to be granted to Holyrood by the mechanism of a Section 30 order.

Should that request not be fulfilled by the date of the election in May and should a majority of MSP’s committed to holding such a referendum be elected to Holyrood in that election the Scottish National Party will immediately move to pass legislation in Holyrood to hold such a referendum as soon as it is safe to do so.

The Scottish National Party will continue to press the UK government in Westminster to honour the will of the Scottish People to grant a Section 30 order and to participate in that referendum in good faith but we will not delay giving the People of Scotland the opportunity to express their will in this matter a moment longer than absolutely necessary.

The UK government can choose to honour Scottish constitutional law or continue to operate in flagrant breach of it. Its choices in this matter will speak volumes in the international community.

Regardless, the Scottish National Party will honour the wishes of the People of Scotland.

So that (or something very like it) is what you’ll be voting on. A vague promise to “pass legislation” for a referendum “as soon as it is safe to do so”, whatever that means.

(We’re not too clear on how it could be unsafe to hold a referendum when you’ve just held an election, which in all mechanical senses is exactly the same thing, but hey ho.)

There’s of course absolutely nothing on what they’ll do when the proposed referendum falls at the first hurdle (getting councils to co-operate with it), as it definitely will, and generally it’s just a rehash of the same old puffed-up cobblers you’ve been getting fed for the last five years, so good luck getting the UK government to take any notice.

We still prefer our version.

And not just because it’s a lot snappier and we know where the capital letters go.

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    334 to “The last and final request”

    1. Den Cairns says:

      My backs yours WOS.

    2. Michael says:

      The people are sovereign, the parliament is the voice of the people but the Sturgeon cabal rules supreme.

      The SNP will demand more power for the parliament and then sit on their hands.
      The fact that Russell thinks nobody realised that the ’11 point roadmap’ is just a sketch of a roundabout is beyond credibility.

    3. Lynne says:

      I fell asleep in paragraph 4.

    4. 1971Thistle says:

      Speaking as a sometime sub, that’s a mess.

      FWIW, it averages 42 words per sentence (awful), 1.2 sentences per paragraph (awful) and has a Grade level (no. of years of education required to read it) of 20 (also awful).

      I regularly edit better-written articles than this from non-native English speakers.

      Also, as well as the caps, issue, what’s with the fear of commas?

    5. Duncan Clark says:

      It doesn’t mention Dear Leader once!

    6. Effijy says:

      Anyone got a pen!

    7. Beaker says:

      I had to speed read to avoid dozing off, but I think it can be summarised as:

      Please vote for us and we promise to hold a referendum.

    8. Michael B says:

      It’s a tale…….full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    9. 1971Thistle says:

      Oh, for shame – a typo in my comment…

    10. BuggerLePanda says:

      He is playing a double hand

    11. Margaret Lindsay says:

      Well if they are honouring the will of the people of Scotland, why are Nicola Sturgeon and her woke cabal still in their jobs? I don’t remember voting for a corrupt shower of b…..ds. Just more carrots for the peasants to keep them on the gravy train.

    12. Effijy says:

      In this new age of Tory transparency, openness and justice-

      The former chief civil servant at the Home Office has dropped a bullying case against Priti Patel after receiving an undisclosed settlement from the government before it reached an employment tribunal.

      Could Baroness Ruthless giver the tax payer and idea of how much we will have to waste to cover up her colleagues crimes?

    13. Liz says:

      Full of waffle as per.

    14. Mia says:

      The first political party that has the balls to include your two paragraphs in their manifesto (excluding the Scottish National Party bit), gets my vote.

      Any takers, or shall I spoil by ballot?

    15. Dan says:

      Just scratched and sniffed my screen. I’m picking up the scent of carrots…

    16. Alex says:

      Aye, we have to leave with a majority, not fuck around with referenda that will always hand the power of yes or no to WM.

    17. Anonymoose says:

      Stu, I much prefer your version because the proposed manifesto by the SNP is full of the same shite they’ve been flinging our way since 2016.

      False promises of a thing they cannot deliver because all Westmonster has to say is no, and that is the end of the conversation from the English Parliaments’ POV, and afterwards they’ll roll out the usual “referendums are a once in X generation” tripe we have heard over and over, somthing that they will keep saying because they control the power over making a section 30 order lawful.

      Every election manifesto should be based on a plebicide for Scottish independence until such a day in which it is secured by popular vote.

      False promises of referendums are only wasting our time.

    18. Johnny says:

      Maybe I’m reading wrongly but does this also say, contrary to what some have been making out, that Section 30 order requests have been made and ignored/rejected?

      Some people have repeatedly suggested this was never done (for my part, I always thought that we’d been led to believe they had).

    19. Cath says:

      It reads like it was written by the same writer as the vow and with the same intent.

    20. A Person says:

      “Powers have come to Holyrood but the Tories have taken powers from Holyrood”, eh? Does he mean the Smith Commission?

      And yes although this is a cheap shot this is so badly written it’s embarrassing.

    21. A Person says:

      -Cath-

      Based on Murray Foote’s role in the SNP you might not be wrong…

    22. Strathy says:

      ‘We pledge to protect Scotland’s Parliament’

      Including from threats of prosecution if they try to do their job – presumably.

    23. katherine hamilton says:

      After a quick skim surely the first bit before the referendum bit is a load of devolutionary nonsense. Holyrood will do stuff to ensure Westminster can’t. They’ll ignore it anyway of course. If there is to be a referendum, which I assume they expect to win, why the hell is the first bit needed?

    24. Lollysmum says:

      Who do you think wrote that attempt at a manifesto? No attempts at new policies, plans to improve on services provided etc.

      Guessing at a 14year old but then again the 14 yr olds I know are all far too articulate to have authored that nonsense passing itself off as a Manifesto for an Election.

      What an embarrassment!

    25. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Holyrood has been given lots of new powers…but Westminster is chipping away at Holyrood’s powers.’ Eh? Which is it? And I second the observations above about the ‘quality’ of the writing. Barely literate.

    26. Fungi guy says:

      WOS. I’m with you. It’s a pity we are ruled by placemen.

    27. Emma says:

      Is not knowing where the capital letters go a disability?

    28. Fungi guy says:

      Oops. I should not have said placemen. People of inderminate gender who might be placepeople?

    29. Colin Dudgeon says:

      Was it done in crayon?

    30. t42 says:

      and The Jim Sillars Award for nauseating and ultimately counter-productive waffle goes to..

    31. Ian McCubbin says:

      It’s rubbish as usual.
      Let’s get ISP to adopt yours WOS.

    32. holymacmoses says:

      If we get Sturgeon out can this be changed?

    33. Nordic Labrador says:

      I’m still a member and waiting to see what’s in manifesto before deciding whether I can still vote for them – it’s really not looking good. I like fergus mutch but can’t endorse what the snp has become.

    34. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      No Plebiscite then?

      Fucking cowards!

      Also, what’s with the whole “and guaranteeing that the People of Scotland will always henceforth have the opportunity to express their wishes in a legally binding manner.”

      We already have this via the Declaration of Arbroath and The Claim of Right

      It isn’t our fault the SNP failed to abide by these conventions when Scotland was dragged out of the EU despite a clear instruction from the Scottish People not to do so squandering our ‘Act of Union backstop’

      What a pity Craig Murray didn’t get elected SNP President, his manifesto would have been a hell of a lot better than this heap shite.

    35. Margaret Tees says:

      Boris refuses the section 30 order, the SNP announces a referendum and then we have at least a couple of years in court. That will be absolutely fine with the party…. indefinite power. No opposition.

    36. Ian McLean says:

      While I’d much prefer Stu’s version, it’s better than I feared. At least there is some impression of urgency.

    37. Effigy says:

      O/T

      I see the latest poll on independence shows Yes on 53%.

      Also shocked to see the Tories offer nurses in England a 1% pay rise!

      That might just about cover the rise of their hospital parking pass but not
      Their dramatic rises in Council Tax, Gas, Electricity and Food.

      Perhaps risking life and limb and working excessive hours due to massive staff shortages
      we may need to go out every night to clap and rattle pots and pans when their mortgage is due?

    38. Andy Ellis says:

      @holymcmoses 6.45pm

      The “if” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there bud….!

      Delicious as the thought of Sturgeon and her acolytes being politically defenestrated into Charlotte Square with some force is, it’s looking like an increasingly long shot that in the time available before May 2021 elections we can eject the Sturgeonistas, change SNP policy and turn the party in to a force for delivering a plebiscitary elections, or #indyref2.

      Anyone who thinks the SNP can be changed by its rank and file membership hasn’t really been paying attention to what’s been happening.

    39. David H says:

      He’s been voted as President of the SNP.

      This is the same Mike Russell who was the SNPs minister of negotiations of Scotland’s place in Europe. Mike Russell and SNP did not honour their commitment to keeping Scotland in the EU.

      The “Scotland won’t be dragged out against our will” empty rhetoric is remarkably similar to “when it is safe to do so”.

      I suggest Mike Russell puts his glasses on. He is 67. You think a man in his twilight years would be desperate to see his country become Independent. I think he’s been buttered up and neutered by Nicola Sturgeon, she’s using him. Where is his fight and passion! That statement makes him look like an old fool. I sincerely hope he reads this. And looks into his conscience. Time is precious. Does he really want to spend 5 more years under a union flag.

      What about people’s action, the Martin Keatings case, why did the Scottish Government hold hands with the UK government in opposing that. Mike Russell as president of the SNP should ask himself, WHY it is party policy, to only ask for permission! I’ve never heard of a country win its democratic freedom by asking for permission! Why was alternative routes to Independence disregarded by the SNP. The old dog needs to wake up!

    40. aulbea1 says:

      Simply – no plebiscite – no vote.

    41. Desimond says:

      Is it parliament or Parliament..the people need to know!!

      Seems “The Community” now want a law against Conversion Therapy and suppression. If only Poverty and Drug Abuse had the same lobby power!

    42. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A 3 second video that sums it up…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHVuPhOUDH4

    43. John Martini says:

      The new labour pledge has become the tsrtan vow. This party are beyond redemption.

    44. Tommo says:

      ‘….to never have its powers reduced, undermined or removed….’
      Split infinitive; fined thirty shillings.

    45. Karen says:

      And after branches have had their say, who’s to say it won’t be changed at the last minute by *someone*?

    46. Hamish Kirk says:

      Redmondites. If ther was an alternative I would support it. What else can we do but vote SNP 1 and let these charlatans careerists and Wokefolk in again. I will make use of the power of the List vote. It will not be for the self-declared dyslexi on the SNP List.

    47. 100%Yes says:

      It’ll be quicker to ask the EU if it wants to join the UK, 5yrs in the making or should I say think about what to pass as a piece of fudge, in other words I need to renew my British passport because Scotland isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

      The first part was about protecting devolved powers, so why does the SNP feel the need to protect devolved power is Scotland leaving the UK?

      So the SNP tell us (what we already know) that the Scottish people are sovereign, but add Westminster’s power trumps that!

    48. AwakeNotWoke says:

      Didn’t they pledge we would not be taken out of the EU against our will? They’re 0-2, as the Americans would say
      EU Membership – nope
      Independence – nope

    49. Midge says:

      Is this why the education report is not being released

    50. No mention of,

      “We will not be dragged out of the European Union against the wishes of the Scottish people.”

    51. Effigy says:

      Mike states the people of Scotland are sovereign.

      Why then have they devoted so much time, effort and money
      stopping Martin from proving it in court?

    52. Bob Mack says:

      “we will not delay a moment more than is absolutely necessary”

      That’s a pretty vague timescale is it not ?. Like saying “I’m building a scale model Titanic out of matchsticks which will not be delayed more than is absolutely necessary”

      I see a carrot on a stick. Hee haw.

    53. solarflare says:

      “In 2016 the Scottish National Party sought election and formed a government in Scotland on the promise that should there be a sustained majority in favour of Independence or a material change in circumstances to those that prevailed in 2014, like being dragged out of the EU against the will of the Scottish People, we would seek to hold a further referendum on whether Scotland should become an Independent Nation again and chart its own course as part of the European family of Nations by the end of that parliament.”

      (a) I seem to remember a certain Mr. Blackford telling us we wouldn’t be dragged out against our will.
      (b) you’re asking for me to vote for you again on this basis?

    54. 100%Yes says:

      I’m convinced I’m in the twilight zone or I’m down that F*cking rabbit whole, please someone through a boulder at my head and wake me up and tell me the last 6yrs has been a nightmare and Mr Salmond is still in charge.

    55. Frank Gillougley says:

      No well. In my bed after being vaccinated yesterday. All I know is that this government is corrupt. Change must come? Re the PPB – Yes, but not for the reasons the SNP think.

    56. Astonished says:

      They must be bricking it . Ring -fenced money gone and donations drying up. And the genderwoowoo returning without so much as a cross word.

      The internal polling must be very bad, indeed.

    57. holymacmoses says:

      Do you think it reads better in Gaelic?

    58. Big Jock says:

      Bob , it’s a bit like Sturgeon’s. ” When the Covid crisis is over”.

      As there is no calender date. It could mean 1 year or 3 years, or never. When you base your country’s democracy on events outside your control Scotland will always lose.

      That is the pattern under Sturgeon. Scotland’s democracy should trump every outside event.

    59. Skip_NC says:

      If the People of scotland are sovEreign, why in the name o’ the wee man do the people of Scotland have to ask for permission to enact their wishes?

    60. Mark English says:

      Independent as a member of the EU…

      LOL…

    61. 100%Yes says:

      I glad Mike Russell had the good sense on to put a stamp on (We pledge to Protect Scotland’s Parliament and honour the will of the Scottish People.)and then post it to Branches, it would only bankrupt the SNP

    62. 100%Yes says:

      So Nicola Sturgeon was honest yesterday, she does have a problem with dates.

    63. Clavie Cheil says:

      That is a lot of chanty roll.

    64. GMac says:

      That should take them through to 2026 then.

      Absoluely unarguably granted.

    65. Mia says:

      If the people of Scotland are sovereign, and we gave a mandate, many in fact, for an independence referendum, how is it that Sturgeon’s SNP is asking for yet another mandate?

      Either the people are not sovereign and these people are lying to us, or we are sovereign, they lied to us when they told us categorically we needed a S30 and are lying to us now attempting to make us believe we need another mandate for indyref when we still have a perfectly valid one on the table.

      No plebiscite? No vote.

    66. Ottomanboi says:

      [t]he Scottish National Party will immediately move to pass legislation in Holyrood to hold such a referendum as soon as it is safe to do so.
      Safe? what does that mean?
      If the Scottish people have been sovereign since 1320 and the union with England being effected by a corrupt and bribed parliament without the people’s approval etc. should be like taking candy from a baby that independence thing.

    67. 100%Yes says:

      The SNP gain 5000 new members, I wonder how many unionist will join now that Mike Russell has laid there fears to rest about the breakup of the Union.

    68. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Brian Doonthetoon 6:58pm
      I think you will understand more than most where I am at politically at the moment. All over the place. But I can tell you one thing. I won’t be voting SNP at the next election. I will not endorse in any way what is happening in the Scottish Parliament. I will be a ‘Didnae vote’. I have read Craig Murray’s take on it. I respect his analysis. But as a wee boy I remember washing dishes at an SNP function with my mum. WHen the SNP were really struggling, and it has to be said seen as a dangerous movement at the time. It’s a different SNP now, they are the establishment. They have the power and are abusing that power.

    69. Mia says:

      “[t]he Scottish National Party will immediately move to pass legislation in Holyrood to hold such a referendum as soon as it is safe to do so”

      They must be referring to the pest of rodents infesting Holyrood.

    70. holymacmoses says:

      I don’t see Mr Russell being particularly interested in Independence when you consider that he was born in Bromley and his son (who I think was on Dragon’s Den) appointed Peter Robinson in 2018 as part of its bid to raise 5 million. Cally Russell’s business is Mallzee

    71. willie says:

      I’ve just woken up this evening and am having a bit of difficulty.

      What is this idea that if the SNP say they are for independence and if over 50% vote for that then they will move to secure independence.

      Is there something wrong with this… why can’t this be done. You know what I mean, let the people speak. The SNP is after all for independence – isn’t it ?

      I’m off back to sleep now. Imagine that, a majority voting for independence – what an idea!

    72. Derek Cameron says:

      Our LAST request for powers we already have ? Bad start. Refusal .. “flagrant breach.. speaking volumes in the international community “.Is that it?

    73. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      Well done Stuart, it’s Good to know if your Job as editor of the biggest Polotical website blig/bog in scotland goes tits-up, that you have a New job As sub editor for The snp.

      No chance buddy. You have a lot of work to do here. Please.

      The SNP party political broadcast from five minutes ago definitely had the aroma of “ouch” in it. Stuart, your fingerprints and those from Wings Over Scotland were all over the SNP broadcast.

      I venture to suggest that anyone here watching the SNP broadcast may detect a wee bit of Wings in that effort. Methinks the SNP high command do protesteth too much. The entire broadcast was about a lot of folk who have changed from “no” to “yes” on IndyRef. The broadcast was all about PROMISING to hold an independence referendum. Not a Woke nest cuckoo in site. The SNP really do care about honouring the current First Minister’s promise. Aye right. Fool me once etc.

      Stuart, you converted me to watching squirrels. No not the pervy thing when you Google the words squirrel watching and the internet takes you to Senga’s House of Squirrel Doms With S&M. Those initials don’t stand for Marks & Spencer. Please don’t click there. The images burn into your retinas. Squirrel costumes never looked so bad. Especially the vibrating delux edition.

      Nope I just enjoyed a couple of hours away from politics and decided to watch real nature, real wonders of the real world.

      Stuart how you have kept your sanity is a miracle.

      As for Alex and Moira? They have kept their dignity and honour. It really worries me that Alex will retire forever and not come back. Who on earth could blame him?

      Alex, if you do happen to read this, PLEASE hang on until at least someone trustworthy such as Stuart Campbell does a poll to see what the real odds are if you were to join one of the pro-indy political LIST parties that have sprung up?

      I would donate several thousand pounds to see you as a LIST MSP helping to lead 15 to 25 truly independent LIST MSPs that hold the balance of power at Holyrood and could help get rid of Nicola Sturgeon who looks worryingly likely to have gerrymandered three of Scotland’s institutions as some form of mini-me Donald Trump liar into returning her for another four years as Scotland’s First Minister.

      More importantly an Alex Salmond led pro-indy LIST party would very likely get well over 6% which is what the two elderly pensioner gentlemen got at the first Holyrood election and they formed the very helpful Senior Senior Citizen Party that ran for a few years.

      Imagine how interesting it would be for our Alex Salmond to lead a truly pro-indy LIST party at Holyrood.

      Just imagine all those cosy feet being held to the fire to extinguish the litany of 7 years of Sturgeon lies.

      Just imagine a Salmond-led LIST party help the genuine SNP stalwarts, the Chris McEleneys regain their Party and receive the honouring of what is a very simple request:

      IndyRef2.

    74. Molly's Mum says:

      So, let me get this straight Mike ol’ bean

      We, the people of Scotland, are Sovereign but you want a mandate (another one) to ask Westminster if we can have permission to have a referendum to determine our sovereign-ness ? But don’t the UN already have rules about self-determination and stuff ? So why don’t we just go to them ?

      Also, I have just, for the first time ever, requested a postal vote in case – for fair means or foul – I am prevented by the virus from Hell from tootling into the Community Centre to cast my vote so whit’s all this nonsense about “when it is safe to do so” ?

      Here’s an option – you could make it a plebiscite vote Mike, then I could vote on May 6th for a new Government AND independence on the same piece of paper and feel just as safe as voting for your Party to give you another five years of faffing with mandates and carrots and lots and lots of gravy

      Why do I never get any of this gravy ? Nor any jam tomorrow now I come to think about it ? Only the carrots…….hmmm

    75. Bob Mack says:

      It makes no sense whatsoever. Rather than make the election a plebiscite, they intend to get elected first then immediately legislate for a referendum. (Stop laughing at the back).

      Translation. Make sure the job is safe first and foremost, then obfuscate and find excuses till the General Election.

    76. John McNab says:

      Typical Alice in Wonderland nonsense.

      What historical illiteracy and ignorance of context there must be to spout that the ‘people of Scotland’ were sovereign in 1320!

    77. iain mhor says:

      So, a redrafting the T&C’s of the Scotland Act then?

      Because as we, and every dug in the street knows (or bloody should by now) nothing, absolutely nothing in it enshrines inalienable rights to Holyrood – not it’s permanence, not articles of devolved powers, nor anything else pertaining to the Parliament and Government of Scotland.

      Why? Because it is one big EULA : ‘We reserve the right to alter these terms and conditions…etc etc’

      A redrafting of the Scotland Act to achieve such things as Mr Russell dreams on, creates the de-facto independence of the Scottish Parliament to ‘Act’ – the ‘reserved rights’ clauses will require removal – never going to happen.

      Why? Because such a thing creates an independence of the Scottish Parliament (consequently, that would also entail a redrafting of the terms of the Act of Union)

      Redraft the Scotland Act? No? Thought not.

      I’ve been reading contracts for decades Mr Russell – don’t bullshit me.
      Next.

    78. Andrew gordon says:

      Fuck sake Stuart, thought you were having a break, I was looking forward to a few days of tumbleweed and you just keep posting and I must read it !
      Please stop for sanitys sake !
      Whilst it’s always totally on the money I for one just need a break.

    79. cynicalHighlanderc says:

      @ Effijy says:
      4 March, 2021 at 6:19 pm

      Anyone got a pen

      Would that be a red one?

    80. Alibi says:

      At least one split infinitive in there. Got bored after that.

    81. Ruby says:

      1971Thistle says:
      4 March, 2021 at 6:20 pm
      Oh, for shame – a typo in my comment…

      Reply

      I think it’s OK to have typos, bad spelling, grammar punctuation in BTL comments, at least I hope it is.

    82. Saffron Robe says:

      Very amateurish, but not surprising. I think the grammar is reflective of their cognitive abilities.

      And your version is much better Stuart. After all, you are a connoisseur and not a dilettante.

    83. Alf Baird says:

      A 50%+ vote for indy on the list would also comprise a national majority for indy.

      All this needs is one list party to make it a plebiscite election on independence. A list vote of 50%+ in favour would be a majority vote for independence.

      Does not matter it it is constituency or list, it is still a national vote, a vote of the whole nation of people.

    84. Big Jock says:

      Secure another 5 years for Sturgeon to fanny about first. Then ask for permission for a referendum.

      Await refusal, say this will not stand. Then rinse and repeat 2026.

    85. John Cleary says:

      I’m sorry but the people of Scotland are NOT sovereign.
      I wish it were otherwise, I really do. But until you can get out of this wretched union then you are not sovereign.

      If you continue to believe you are sovereign, then you (the independence movement) will continue to flounder. You MUST deal with the world as it is.

    86. Colin Alexander says:

      I won’t vote for any party whose manifesto does not seek a direct mandate for indy.

      The SNP can stick their “jam the morra” indyref manifesto.

    87. Albert Herring says:

      Yer carrots are rancid, Mike, boufin!

    88. Wee Chid says:

      They can f**k off. I don’t believe a word they say and they won’t be getting my vote while the Sturrels are anywhere near the party. I’m old, I’m female and I read Wings – they don’t want my vote anyway.

    89. Big Jock says:

      Playing right into Boris’s hands.

      Now he knows they are going to beg for a section 30 . He will be able to plan an appropriate response. The Tories will already be plotting to stymie Holyrood. This gives them more time, as there is no obvious threat. Other than the international community being mildly annoid.

      We know how the Tories feel about the international community!

    90. willie says:

      Just woke up again.

      What is this talk of contracts. What is this concept of mandates. Is it a date with a man. Why do we need one after another.

      Mind you I’m old enough to remember the dizzy. You thought you, in fact you had a man date, or the binary opposite as it was, and then you got the dizzy.

      Oh, I’ve broken into song now – ” just one more mandate, give it me, delicious….dum dum …. from Nicolee.

      Aside, I’m away back to sleep – vote SNP for a date with destiny – vote Nicola – you know it makes sense.

    91. Graham says:

      “We, the people of Scotland are sovereign, even if we have to ask Boris Johnson permission for a S30 Order.”

    92. Big Jock says:

      Sturgeon’s logo.

      ” Nicola Promising Referendums Since 2016″ hours for Scotland.

    93. Cant disagree with Stu here as I argued the case in Bella C a few years back saying the people are sovereign and just over 50% of the actual vote was enough for UDI. When 56 MPs were SNP it should have been declared. Cowards. Then every bandwagon jumping mediocrity as most MSPs are swear loyalty to the English Queen, a ("Tractor" - Ed)ous act in itself and go on to serve themselves, serve their career and like the old song the Socialist ABC, its bugg** you all now Im an MSP! So where is the democracy without humble public service? Scottish elections are a stampede of mediocre egomaniacs unfit to do most jobs preening themselves in the mirror as to how great they are at grovelling to some rock star celebrity styled FM or other SNP top dog dripping in their deluded sense of Laird-like feudal power over others. We need grown ups with real ability humble enough to serve the people and show respect to their/our sovereignty. Power needs to go back to the people through local citizen assemblies until the rot and stench of corruption in Holyrood is lanced like a boil of poison that it is. Until the rot is gone I wont be voting SNP.

    94. Matt Seattle says:

      Both “last and final”?
      That’s serious, Mike!

    95. James Horace says:

      That’s Sturgeon back tweeting about books again, and welcoming all the new members to the SNP. It wont be long till restrictions lift, and she is back out taking selfies with people who insist you are aware of their pronouns.

      Is she 100% home and dry?

      Will she brush off Hamilton’s Ministerial Code decision without breaking sweat, and move straight onto the May elections relatively unscathed?

      Or has Alex Salmond still got something up his sleeve?

    96. Edward MacD says:

      Where’s the bit about high taxes and no returns?

    97. robertknight says:

      All of that could and should be done now, SO WHY WAIT ???

      More ‘jam tomorrow’, when the jam shop is fully stocked, is open 24/7, and is giving the bloody jam away for free!

    98. Andy Ellis says:

      The SNP used to love crowing about their membership figures. Murrell used to issue regular updates I seem to recall. That stopped when folk started leaving of course.

      Even if it is true that they’ve had people clamouring to join/re-join (and let’s face it most of us here will have our doubts….!) the number is dwarfed by the number who have left in the past few years.

      It’s not going to help if they attract *some* new members, but haemorrhage lots of others.

      The only thing the SNP will listen to is losing votes and seats. Sadly too many of the sheeple will vote SNP 1 to give them the fright they deserve.

      The only thing that can make a difference now is Salmond and Cherry challenging them. I suspect nothing else now can save us from 5 more years of dreary devolutionary nationalism.

    99. Helen Yates says:

      Can I just say, I prefer your manifesto too and it’s the only manifesto I could vote for.

    100. Big Jock says:

      James after that chatachter assassination of Alex yesterday. I would be more surprised if he didn’t come back with a killer blow.

      Like football matches. It’s not 50 , minutes, 80 or 90 you win in. Sometimes the killer goal is in injury time.

      The clock is ticking and more drama to come.

    101. willie says:

      Ach I’ve woken up again. This mandate thing is giving me the agitation just as I try to get back to sleep.

      Nicki has I think given us at least one dizzy, if not three. How can this be.

      When I was young a dizzy often meant you were dumped. Never dumped my self you realise, since I did the dumping, I’m awake worrying about Nicola because I think she’s welshed on all these mandates she’s been given so far.

      So will May 2021 be any better or will the electorate dump her. That’s a real possibility….

      Ah well, must try to get back to sleep now. Maybe another 7,000 will this evening in a couple of hours sign up. She’s some burd the Nicola one, pure class and sass.’

      Off back to sleep now. At this rate we’ll have replaced the 60,000 SNP members who have left over the last eighteen months in the next few hours…….zzzzzzs

    102. mike cassidy says:

      Please vote in May 2021 for us to have the powers you voted for us to have in 2016

      Please vote for us in 2026 for us to have the powers you voted for us to have in 2016

      Please vote ……

    103. Big Jock says:

      “Oh the grand old duke of York”.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      Just for information. Have you all seen the legal advice from Roddy Dunlop QC to the government in 4 th Sept 2018? Media claims it shows Alex Salmond was wrong about why the government did not sist trial.

      However that aside the rest will shake you up.

      @Stu, have you read it? The date is important as is what was written. I now know why they desperately sought witnesses.

    105. MWS says:

      The author is certainly a stranger to punctuation, in particular the ‘comma’. I can’t help but wonder why, if there is a majority in Holyrood to push forward on the Indy ref front, there is any need at all for the whole first section. If your intent is to in effect split from Westminster, why are you going to need to pass legislation to protect Holyrood’s devolved powers FROM Westminster? And in any event, as long as you accept the primacy of Westminster ( by continuing to beg them for a Section 30), you also need to accept that Westminster can do what the hell it likes with regards to Holyrood. Anyone who is desperate for independence and who swallows that crock of shit needs their head examined.

    106. Alain Mack says:

      What a pathetic document produced by a pathetic
      ” we can’t govern unless we have the power to do so” or words to that effect. Devolved power for welfare……eh we’re no ready for that.
      But the belter for me was the line “when it is safe to do so” Looks like another freebie to be offered to the cult…..Condoms !!!!

    107. Russell says:

      The blame – if any – for this affair, lies with the civil service, who have an established record of incompetence, particularly when rushing legislation in response to a populist crisis.

      It was exactly the same with medical regulation following the Shipman and Alder Hey scandals. The Blair government were determined to ‘protect’ the public and introduced a new regulatory framework for the health professions and a more punitive Fitness to Practise regime. The new regulators advertised the complaints process widely – posters in hospitals, surgeries and the media – explaining how the public could make complaints if they were dissatisfied with their care or had concerns regarding their clinician.

      Within five years, FtP complaints increased by over 700% – and the government and regulators extolled the success of the scheme. It certainly rooted out some dangerous practice – but there were serious drawbacks too. When a complaint is received, an agent assesses it and if they consider there are grounds or evidence to support the complaint – it’s referred to a hearing.

      Only 46% of complaints reach a hearing – the rest are dismissed at the assessment stage as having insufficient grounds or evidence – or the complaint is regarded as malicious, vexatious and without foundation.

      Malicious complaints against health professionals are unfortunately too common – and some have tragic consequences. Yet, there is no action taken against a member of the public if they make a malicious complaint, their case is simply dismissed. Even when the motive is extortion, revenge or reputational damage – the complainants are not referred to the police or CPS – ergo: there is no consequence for their dishonesty.

      The same dangers for the civil service arise from the #MeToo movement. It is perfectly proper that we ensure all concerns are heard following sexual abuse and non consensual conduct – but there has to be checks and balances in the system too. We have to recognise that some women will make serious unfounded allegations against men – for many reasons – and have done so for just as long as men have abused women.

      Women must never be deterred from making complaints against any man, but should their claims be malicious, vexatious and wholly without foundation – then clearly, there must be repercussions too. But just like the regulatory legislation – rushed and ill-considered – the civil service in the Scottish government have created an unfair and unworkable policy – and then tried it our prematurely on the wrong man.

      I don’t doubt that AS regrets whatever he did that became the centre of this storm – inappropriate behaviour perhaps, but it certainly wasn’t criminal – and the jury properly decided at the trial. Perhaps some perspective is needed.

      I’ve known dozens of politicians and establishment figures over the last 40 years through my job. Alan Clarke, Nicky Fairbairn, John Smith, Donald Dewar and Ted Heath were all former patients from a very different generation. The first two would never get past a job interview today as they’d likely be on the SOR for multiple offences – but even the others could be in trouble, if the standards adopted by the Scottish government were in force.

      They were ‘tactile’ – hugs and kisses for sure – and they could flirt and tell raucous jokes but always keeping below the line of what was appropriate. But that line in itself is never a straight one – and that’s always the danger.

      I guess after the 1960s there was a sense of sexual liberation and freedom – that was all good – but we must recognise that we are all individuals with a different perspective on life, love and relationships – and respect that too. In many ways, that was a failing of the libertine and bohemian movement – tear down the barriers that bind, but remember we all have our own too. For good reason.

      Just as the sixties was a reaction against sexual repression, the #MeToo movement is exactly the same but in counterbalance – an understandable reaction against the like of Weinstein et al – monsters in every sense of the word. Then, of course, you go down another level and find Prince Andrew and Epstein – and that’s real revulsion.

      But just stop and think. We are just animals – and not very intelligent ones at that. We are driven mostly by our emotions, cravings and desires – and whilst a few can somehow exclude their sexual drive from that equation – the overwhelming majority cannot.

      If we knew every instance when a politician – or anyone for that matter – found themselves in a completely inappropriate, but consensual carnal encounter, it would keep us entertained for years. Some, hopefully, were delightfully memorable for both parties – but equally some were not – and with all the conflicting emotions and damage as a result.

      We used to say that men are from Mars and women from Venus – but the truth is that some are from completely different galaxies – and that whole relationship journey makes navigating a minefield like a walk in the park.

      All of us could do with stepping back from the trench warfare and just think about it all in these terms.

      All the principals are intelligent, driven public figures, subject to the greatest scrutiny. Like everyone else they are also driven by their emotions, cravings and desires – as much as their public duty.

      There are the civil servants who function under rigorous frameworks and conventions, now responding to populist events in the most ill-considered ways. That a policy covering historic abuse and harassment complaints was conceived and implemented in a few months is quite astonishing.

      If only they reacted in the same way against the virus.
      The First Minister stated her position and motivation clearly yesterday. She didn’t lie. Her primary motivation was heavily influenced by the #MeToo movement – and her sense that something untoward had happened in the past. But clearly, she had other considerations – and commitments too. Loyalty, friendship – and wider responsibilities.

      However you look at this – NS’s predicament when told of the allegations – was impossible to reconcile, given all the circumstances at the time. Obviously she would make mistakes, whatever course of action she took – but the suggestion she deliberately hatched a convenient plot to imprison her friend just in case he decided to re-launch his political career – or any other reason – is so far over the Cuckoo’s Nest it doesn’t bear any countenance.

      If it wasn’t obvious.

      She’s a woman. As are most other actors in the affair apart from AS.

      Why wouldn’t they be influenced by the #MeToo revelations? Sexual abuse ain’t a pleasant experience, but there is a reaction from Hollywood that extends far beyond Holyrood. And it’s unchecked and ill-considered – just like the sixties and the medical regulation response in 2003.

      NS was perfectly correct. Any man that abuses a woman – or anyone else – should answer for his crimes, irrespective of his position or power. The law should apply equally to everyone, whatever their status. But the ‘law’ should be well considered and equal too. In every respect.

      The mistake was giving the civil service the predominant role – and rushing the measure through.

      The former First Minister committed no crime and has been subjected to the usual establishment tour de force when incompetence has been exposed. I’ve never met him, but those I did know in politics always spoke warmly of Alex – away from the usual cut and thrust of party loyalty.

      So, we learn of some encounters when he held office. Disappointing perhaps, but so what? They were consensual and no criminality took place. Embarrassing no doubt for all concerned, but that is the nature of human behaviour and relationships. Doesn’t everyone have a story they’d rather not recount?

      When you are a public figure, it can be an awful experience. Of course there are dividends – but the corollary applies too. Who would want their life dissected to the extent these individuals – AS & NS – have been subjected to, particularly in the febrile atmosphere of the Internet and social media? We all have an opinion and sitting at a computer with principles is easy – especially when so many are being generated elsewhere that we can adopt for our own motives and desires.

      But remember that we are all just human. Away from the fancy places, courts, television studios and parliaments – we are just animals and governed by the same basic things. Our emotions, our cravings and desires.

      I watched the AS interview with Mr Campbell the other night. Stuart is a very passionate, talented individual, but one whose anger and rhetoric doesn’t have a red or reflective line. That’s ok – we are all different – and that’s perfectly understandable. But we can all deconstruct each other to the n-degree – but eventually we have to start the pendulum moving in the other direction – and that starts by acknowledging our own limitations and influences – and by perhaps employing a little understanding thereof.

      It would be preferable if we all set aside our differences for once. We populate a unique planet that sustains life. We are a complex species amidst other complex life-forms that inhabit this place. We still don’t truly understand ourselves, never mind anything beyond our ken – but we are in danger of losing everything, not least because we devote all our energies to things that are truly inconsequential.

      We are running out of time. This has been a hugely damaging and time consuming affair – for everyone – not jut the principals.

      The law doesn’t solve every problem – far from it. Our criminal justice system is archaic and grossly unfair, for so many reasons. Jut like science, it is extremely limited in its application – and just as damaging – when faced with the impossible.

      I’ve enjoyed reading this website over the past decade – just a shame the MSM journalists weren’t so incisive. But it’s stuck down a rabbit hole whilst the real action is taking place elsewhere and it needs to extricate itself to some higher ground ASAP.

      Otherwise, peccavi, peccabo – the only thing left to eat is your own shit.

    108. Big Jock says:

      The real problem is how we get rid of Sturgeon.

    109. TNS2019 says:

      Re Wings.

      Important to note that whilst the dear Reverend is indeed a very astute and incisive journalist, the value of the site is enhanced many times over by the discourse that his work elicits.
      This is the new journalism.
      I disagree with much of what is contributed but value highly the opportunity to do so in a manner that transcends the tabloid (i.e MSM) polemic.
      WoS is the grit in the oyster.
      The SNP should embrace it. (that was my little joke).

    110. Big Jock says:

      Watched that video hilarious. She would as well been taking the 5th amendment.

    111. Col4Cats says:

      If I was looking for a way to trace a leaked document, the insertion of RaNdOm capital letters would be a good way to track various versions, sent to various people?

    112. Patsy Millar says:

      Jings, crivvens, help ma boab

    113. katherine hamilton says:

      Can someone point Mike Russell to UK Government’s latest move in NI. They have unilaterally extended the timescale of the protocol with the EU on trade between UK and NI to October, instead of the end of this month. EU Parliament has suspended approving the Trade and Security deal Johnson signed in December and UK parliament ratified. EU saying this agreement now broken. Revert to no deal? Who knows. Simon Coveney Ireland’s foreign minister saying EU cannot deal with a country which cannot be trusted.

      Point of this? Well you work it out. This is real time, big league politics. S.30 from UK?
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    114. Patsy Millar says:

      Stu, was tempted to spell crivvens with an apostrophe but I don’t want you to fall out with me. Intrusive apostrophes do ma heid in.

    115. TNS2019 says:

      Big Jock says:
      4 March, 2021 at 8:28 pm

      The real problem is how we get rid of Sturgeon.

      First get rid of Swinney. Which we said many moons ago but nobody listened.
      The case against him is much stronger.

      Cue highly relevant but boring link: https://www.tns2019.org/new-blog-1/2021/3/4/devil-may-care

    116. 100%Yes says:

      AwakeNotWoke@8:24

      She the leader of a country and she doesn’t know what her staff are doing on a daily basis, Sturgeon should remind us of what her job is because she doesn’t seem to do anything for the money she getting paid because its not to protect our place in the EU or remove us from this union.

    117. dakk says:

      Decent post by recent standards.

      Now that Nicola has been allowed to give her account of the whole sordid affair and everyone knows she is innocent of the charges, just as Alex was(despite what some will mouth), I appreciate the more honest and enlightening post.

    118. Carol Neill says:

      @Awakenotwoke
      Ooft indeed , killed with hammers lol , thank you , smiley thing

    119. Contrary says:

      National punctuation day on the 10th of March (so I’ve been told)! We can have a day of punctuation pedantry.

      – no plebiscite – no vote.

    120. dakk says:

      Forgot to say.

      Pity about same old shite from unionist concern trolls and useful idiots btl.

    121. dakk says:

      Meant to say “what others will mouth” about both Nicola and Alex.

    122. Tinto Chiel says:

      I imagine many 70+y-o English teachers getting twitchy red-pen-finger syndrome after reading that draft dross from Russell.

      Yet, when confronted by The Rev’s concise, two-paragraph statement of unequivocal intent, I also suspect they would say, “Love dat voodoo, Ever-Vile!”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoRQUnsQQfc

      Enjoy the base, groovers…..

    123. Tinto Chiel says:

      Bass, obvs!

    124. Far North Davie says:

      FFS! It has to be a joke.

    125. Charles Hodgson says:

      dakk
      Sure we’ll see both of them arm in arm dancing down the yellow brick road to independence.
      Just one thing, SHES A LIAR WHO TRIED TO GET HIM LOCKED UP IN PRISON AND WON’T ADMIT HIS COMPLETE INNOCENCE. The absolute worst of humanity. Never forget.

    126. Morgatron says:

      Stu, can we not just copy and paste your much better example over the top of M R war and peace?

    127. Effigy says:

      Sorry O/T

      You don’t suppose the Tories, Westminster and U.K. media would lie to us?

      This miracle Vaccine program that we hear almost leads the world is the envy of
      all Europe, why is it the U.K., Germany, France and Spain all have a daily Corona
      death rate of between 200 and 300?

      U.K. vaccinations started in Mid December last year
      so 11 weeks later there is no difference to what is happening over there?

      The R rate is on the rise In England again.
      Doesn’t this virus realise what Boris and Handcock said?

    128. Tannadice Boy says:

      Well I have heard it all it all now. On the MSM just now. Many thousands of people have joined the SNP in the last 48 hours. Madness by our young people?. Not my young people so who?. One of the times I am glad I am small arms trained. We are heading down a rabbit hole. Every man and family for themselves. Sturgeons Scotland.

    129. Strathy says:

      There was a clear winner in Fabiani’s ‘I don’t know’ competition.

      Alex Salmond 0
      Nicola Sturgeon 50

    130. Gav says:

      “Team Sturgeon breathes a sigh of relief” (BBC News headline)

    131. Hugh Jarse says:

      “Safe” as in the ‘safe for our pay packets’ sense ?

      dakk. She’s as guilty as fuck, and might ‘get away with it ‘ ,but only in the Dostoevsky Raskolnikov style.

      Read the previous article, and then come back and say the person who is responsible for the current state of the SNP, guilty or not, is our best bet for leadership going forward.

      When words convey a message that the reader doesn’t want to acknowledge as a possibility, let alone truth, is there a mental block mechanism to keep reality at bay?
      There must be.

    132. stuart mctavish says:

      Looking like I’ll need to become French now whatever happens so apologies in advance for highlighting that, in accordance with Pete Wishart’s mantra that the only clowns that can beat us now are ourselves, there should at least be one victory on to look forward to somewhere over the horizon..

      In the longer term if, for whatever reason, becoming a brexited party of devolution is the height of SNP capability or ambition, particularly after all the conversation about respecting the pro EU vote, etc., maybe Alex Salmond could do worse than take a few good men and women across to Scotia Future with a view to exposing the covid science and laying the foundation for a more practical, honest and straight road to independence than the one currently being travelled.

    133. birnie says:

      Satire surely?

      Otherwise, like Nicola’s appearance before the inquiry, “Never mind the quality, feel the width!”

    134. TNS2019 says:

      This is never how it was meant to be.
      No vision.
      No plan.
      No passion.
      And thus, I’m afaid, no SNP.
      It is no longer a vehicle for delivering independence.
      Unless we get that message through, independence is simply a very big red herring.
      As absurd as it once seemed to me, the SNP is controlled by WM.
      A subsidiary ‘upstart’. Rather like they contolled the colonies in days gone by.
      As they tried to control Iran and Iraq.
      Which turned out well.

    135. Alan McHarg says:

      The line about holding a referendum “when safe to do so.” I can just see an image of Theresa May saying “Now is not the time” It is a cop out, as you say, knowing that they have just had a “safe” election. It doesn’t inspire confidence when they admit to not fulfilling previous election promises when they were given the mandate to act i.e. being taken out of the EU against our will. What is the opposite of trigger happy because they have failed to act at every trigger. I do prefer your no nonsense and to the point alternative where you know what you are voting for.

    136. AWhiteLife says:

      Wiz it rit by the tea boy for the stamp licker? surprising as I thought Nicholas krankie had to approve everything.

    137. Big Jock says:

      Salmond camp saying that new evidence shows SG, tried to delay Judicial decision. Thus hoping he lost the criminal case and Judicial case became irrelevant as after conviction.

    138. Hendo says:

      How do we get independence without the vehicle that is the SNP? Every movement needs a figurehead to push the agenda of that movement. I absolutely agree that Nicola has had no intentions of pushing for our independence, but where does that leave the YES movement? Like it or not, our parliament is in trouble by the actions of individuals or their puppet masters – and what a time for those troubles to surface (like it’s been timed). I don’t think it’s lost on all that read or post on this site that the SNP is the only political vehicle to get what we’re after. I now know that Nicola has absolutely no intention of getting Scotland its independence, but does that mean I won’t renew my membership of the SNP? Of course I’ll renew my membership. Why wouldn’t I?

    139. Mark Boyle says:

      The people may well be sovereign, the trouble is Nicola Sturgeon acts like she’s THE sovereign.

    140. A Person says:

      The Tories are seriously putting the boot in. This fits with a trend of increasingly aggressive unionist language, for instance from Galloway but also used in recent days by more mainstream folk like Tomkins and Carlaw. This hardline rhetoric should concern us all.

    141. ScottieDog says:

      “When it’s safe to do so”.
      So an election is safer than a referendum.

    142. kapelmeister says:

      It’s the feeding of the 5000 (alleged new members) with jam and carrot, although they’ll have to wait for it….and it will be a miracle if they ever get what’s promised.

      In the meantime they’ll get on with clearing some acres of jungle to build Sturgeontown. She and her woke followers can all stay there until “it is safe”.

    143. Bob Mack says:

      @BigJock,
      That legal advice if released yesterday would have proven Nicola to be lying. Roddy Dunlop laid everything out about what could go wrong and he was spot on.

      No wonder they actively searched for witnesses among the SNP.

      It also proves they were determined to get Alex one way or the other.

    144. Robert Graham says:

      Thanks for giving us a look what’s probably a very very very secret not to be disclosed document

      Someone is taking a real risk smuggling this little gem out , Well done them .

      I like a few others couldn’t be arsed going over it all , but one line stands out

      This is our last and final request. Now that’s fighting talk eh .

      Eh or else what exactly

      This makes Donald Trumps call to Arms look limp and halfhearted this will get them

      Probably falling about fkn laughing , please please this declaration of war isn’t being presented by Blacford is it ? , after the Scottish people won’t be dragged out of Europe against our will ultimatum this one on the balance of probably will go in the same bin ,

      Oh well back to the movie I was watching could somebody wake me up in time for the INDY ref2 kick off I heard it might be delayed due to any fkn excuse they can think of this time .

    145. tartanfever says:

      Honestly, if anyone at Westminster actually read this, or even Tories in Scotland, they’d probably pish themselves laughing.

      Same old claptrap phrases – ‘we are sovereign’,1320, power flows from the people (really, the current SNP seem keen to ignore their members), enshrine, 700 years’

      followed by –

      ‘oh, but we’ll keep asking for a section 30’

      Other nations round the world must look at us in bewilderment

    146. ClanDonald says:

      I’ve just been in touch with an SNP branch convener and he says he hasn’t been sent this document.

      So is it just being sent round some favoured branches and not others?

      Or is it a wind up?

    147. Tannadice Boy says:

      @A Person 9:35pm
      Aggression? Look no further than Sturgeon for divisive language. And politically who has been winning?. Anas Sarwar referred to the principles of the Mace. Won hands down. The SNP are letting the opposition in, with their unadulterated support of Sturgeon. A corrupt Government not true to any cause except their own benefits. I am looking forward to meeting them on the streets.

    148. Chas says:

      The SNP have just appointed a new Minister of Fish, Unfortunately, this is nothing to do with the tasty wee haddock currently swimming in the North Sea. Instead, a man will arrive in the Holyrood Chamber with two buckets of herring. He will fling them individually to the performing seals who sit alongside and behind Ms Sturgeon.

    149. Sylvia says:

      Just in, statement released on behalf of @AlexSalmond

      https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1367578302806917127

    150. Andy Ellis says:

      @Hendo 9.34pm

      Why wouldn’t you? How about because the current SNP can’t and won’t deliver independence? They are as big an obstacle to achieving indy in any reasonable timescale as British nationalists at present.

      Some of us would be more convinced with the “hold your nose and vote SNP1” schtick if the membership had shown any signs of forcing the organisation to change. Remind us how that’s worked out again?

      From my time in the SNP, I know there are good folk in there. What I can’t understand now, with everything they know, is how they can bear the stench of corruption, misogyny and gradualism without losing their lunch.

    151. Dan says:

      @ kapelmeister at 9:40 pm

      Sticky orange substance covered leaked documents show the urban area called Sturgeontown will be twinned with Angus Robertson’s newly proposed Chutneytown development, which is to be built to house the workers at his new carrot jam factory.
      He decided to diversify from the marmalade game after noticing quite so many dumb Scots appear happy to get by on nothing more than jam n carrots.

    152. Mist001 says:

      ‘When safe to do so’

      Does this imply that the election might not take place unless it’s deemed safe to do so?

    153. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Andy Ellis 10:04pm
      Simples. It’s not the SNP anymore. But a morphed Nicola Sturgeon party. Fair enough if that’s your bag. Good folk left the SNP a long time ago. How can I protect all the women in my life because they will suffer the most. I can’t except get them out.

    154. Neil in Glasgow says:

      Not that I have any intention of voting SNP, as an intro I thought it was going OK until …

      “when it is safe to do so”.

      Almost spat my beer out (almost, I’m Scottish therefore tight. St. Nic was quite insistant on reminding us about minimum pricing yesterday so, you know). Every genuine reader here already has her measure, but she’s already rolled out getting over Covid as the priority above all else. You just know she’s going to. Ilk it for aaaaaalllllll it’s worth for as long as possible. So while the rest of the world is getting back to normal we’re still going to be talking to relatives about independence through the window

    155. A Person says:

      -Tannadice-

      I am second to none in my contempt for Sturgeon. But the extremism of her and her supporters’ language is part of an escalation of rhetoric which the unionists are also participating in. There is a new extremism, belligerence and dare I say it confidence in unionists’ pronouncements. You have Tory MSPs calling the SNP “a stain” and calling Scotland “a failed state”. A few months ago Stephen Daisley wrote in the Spectator that Westminster should effectively criminalise referendums. We may laugh at them, but their blood is up…

      Moreover, while in 2014 we were miles ahead in our online sophistication, which helped created a modern and vibrant vibe for us, now they have caught up and some are becoming sophisticated players of the social media game.

    156. Cath says:

      Could someone clarify what it is I’m supposed to have voted for six years ago?

    157. Famous15 says:

      The Firm?

      So both elephants in the room include a Prince who is a prick and a FM who favours lesbians with a prick.

      Have I got that succinctly enough?

      Me? I just want,urgently, independence!

      Wait Priti Patel ,the code, Sir Philip Rutnam . SCOTLAND ASK WINGS TO ELABORATE. He is good at it!

    158. Lost says:

      Lost interest at the first paragraph, all I can think is “is this SNP’s way of telling us we have to wait another 700 for Independence.”

      Tired, cranky and don’t have alot of patience for bullshit just now. A year of covid restrictions takes a toll on you. Nicola Sturgeon has spent years telling us how she’s going to get us Independence, but didn’t, would listen to us on GRA, but didn’t, didn’t know anything about AS allegations before April 2018, but did.

      Lost my vote here. They cannot be trusted, don’t care if they were going to give every adult in Scotland a million pounds. I cannot bring myself to vote for people who tried to get an innocent man jailed and put people’s safety at risk for a law that a minute percentage of people want.

    159. Breeks says:

      Oh now they’re going to respect the sovereignty of the people?

      Fuckers.

    160. robertknight says:

      Clandonald @9:48

      “I’ve just been in touch with an SNP branch convener and he says he hasn’t been sent this document.

      So is it just being sent round some favoured branches and not others?

      Or is it a wind up?”

      As was suggested earlier, could’ve been sent as a means of identifying a ‘leak’, in which case a “wind up” with a purpose.

    161. mr laing b. french says:

      I couldn’t stop yawning and couldn’t read it as my eyes water when I yawn. So I gave up reasonably quickly. I prefer WOS version short and straight to the point and yes all the capitals were in their proper place. SAOR ALBA !

    162. Big Jock says:

      Neil. She certainly will milk covid to delay the referendum. However even when it’s over. Bear in mind some other existential crisis will come along.

      2015 – WM landslide too soon for referendum don’t even mention it.

      2016 – Brexit vote . There will be a referendum in 2017.

      2017 – May says now is not the time Section 30 refused.. Nicola agrees.loses 20 seats at WM

      2018- We need to know the shape of Brexit. So can’t ask for referendum

      2019 – Brexit delayed so is Indy ref 2.

      Dec – 2019 win WM election. Request Section 30. Knocked back

      Jan 2020- Brexit happens no referendum

      March – 2020 covid 19. Sturgeon cancels Indy ref 2 immediately

      2021 new mandate needed.

      May 2021…to be continued.

    163. Neil in Glasgow says:

      Off topic (sorry) but it seems to have gone all quiet on the WhatsApp message front (or have I missed something?) I thought Tuesday lunchtime was the deadline for the handover.

    164. Dan says:

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1367559853963681796

      Aye, coz I’m sure aw these newbies will make up for the considerably higher number of long term members and activists that have fucked off due to you and yer man’s pish.

    165. Neil in Glasgow says:

      Jock

      Spot on. I think it was the half arsed 2017 request and the subsequent whimpering climb down that really made me think what the bell’s going on?

    166. I see that the Sturgeon supporters are still on social media pushing the line that Salmond was lucky to get off, very improbable that 10 women would conspire etc. In fact an examination of the statistics could support the opposite case.

      The conviction rate for sexual crimes in Scotland hovers around 70%. That means that the chance of acquittal is around 30%, the chance of 13 successive acquittals is thus 0.3 raised to the 13th power or 0.000000159, which is vanishingly small. The chance of 13 independent accusations proven to be false or unproven – which is what a not guilty verdict means is thus vanishingly small. The balance of probability points very strongly to collusion in the presentation of false accusations. The chance of this happening without collusion is of the order of 1 in 6 million.

    167. Sylvia says:

      Nobody commenting on my post at 9:56 pm. I will post it again.

      Just in, statement released on behalf of @AlexSalmond

      https://twitter.com/nickeardle

    168. Jontoscots20 says:

      Neil in Glasgow says:
      4 March, 2021 at 10:18 pm
      Not that I have any intention of voting SNP, as an intro I thought it was going OK until …

      “when it is safe to do so”.

      Almost spat my beer out (almost, I’m Scottish therefore tight. St. Nic was quite insistant on reminding us about minimum pricing yesterday so, you know). Every genuine reader here already

      OK Neil Scots aren’t tight please don’t perpetuate that one?. Anyway I agree that Sturgeon and her clique of public health advisors most of them behaviourists, will keep us locked in as much as they can. They are aiming for zero covid. That’s despite the view of people like Prof. Woolhouse, an expert epidemiologist, who says we could remove all external restrictions, and with the vaccine build back indoors. We should be outraged our infection rate is falling, our death rate is falling ,our hospitals are not under acute pressure and vaccine roll out is going on apace. Already they have moved the goalposts so that the case rate for moving out of tiers is more stringent even with vaccines. There is no justification for this whatsoever . Another aspect of the control freakery and poisonous paternalism which Sturgeon’s government imposes.

    169. Hugh Jarse says:

      That account “doesn’t exist ” Sylvia

    170. Neil Wilkinson says:

      Sylvia says:
      4 March, 2021 at 10:42 pm
      Nobody commenting on my post at 9:56 pm. I will post it again.

      Just in, statement released on behalf of @AlexSalmond

      https://twitter.com/nickeardle

      ———————————————

      All I get is ..This account does not exist

    171. Tannadice Boy says:

      @ A Person 10:26 pm
      What can I say to your response?. Except I am small arms trained, confident in my physicality, confident in my ability, confident in manliness but worried about the women of Scotland which you didn’t mention in your reply. 2014 I am talking about the SNP of the 1970s. I am no longer sure what side of a prospective civil war I would be on. You look after your family and I will look after mine. I look to get mines out

    172. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @Neil Wilkinson
      @Sylvia

      That’ll be because there is the “y” missed off the end of his name on that link you’ve posted.

      https://twitter.com/nickeardley

    173. Quinie frae Angus says:

      In fact it’s https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc

    174. Jimmy Mac says:

      So in the first instance they’re asking us to vote for them to hold a referendum on increasing devolved powers? Then maybe down the line sometime another referendum on something else. Is that right?

    175. L.U.T.B. says:

      “A mere 6 years ago the People of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to make that parliament in Holyrood permanent, to never have its powers reduced, undermined, or removed by Westminster without their consent. Indeed they voted to greatly increase those powers and to enshrine in law the Sewell Convention that enforces Holyrood’s primacy over Westminster with respect to its devolved powers.”

      Actually, for all the froth about DevoMax vs IndyLite, none of it on the ballot paper, all we voted about was whether or not Scotland should be Independent.

    176. TNS2019 says:

      Independence will come.
      100% guaranteed.
      But only when we can work out what our relationship with the rest of the UK should be.
      Hating Boris is no rasin d’etre for a nation.
      Nor is shortbread and bagpipes.
      Get your f*cking act together and write a proper declaration based on a written constitution and a bill of rights.
      A statement of what it is to be ‘Scotland’.
      For f*cks sake.
      Sorry!
      Bloody furious at the shite.

    177. Dan says:

      For those interested, Grousebeater has posted more on the statement.

      https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2021/03/04/alex-salmond-a-statement/

    178. TNS2019 says:

      I.e. what it is that makes us distinct.

    179. Sylvia says:

      Sorry everyone, my first post was correct don’t know what happened with my 2nd! x

    180. Neil Wilkinson says:

      Quinie frae Angus says:
      4 March, 2021 at 10:51 pm
      In fact it’s https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc

      ————————————————

      See Malachie tweet reply in the thread, video compilation of ” I dont knows” etc .

    181. Famous15 says:

      The Firm?

      So both elephants in the room include a Prince who is a prick and a FM who favours lesbians with a prick.

      Have I got that succinctly enough?

      Me? I just want,urgently, independence! Or do not split the infinitive.

      Wait Priti Patel ,the code, Sir Philip Rutnam . SCOTLAND ASK WINGS TO ELABORATE. He is good at it!

    182. Big Jock says:

      When were Murrells texts about putting pressure on the police?

      Because it would make sense, if he was trying to force the criminal case past the Judicial review. Then that would be the motive. Because a criminal conviction would overide a Judicial review.

    183. Jim Bo says:

      Jesus what a pile of guff.

    184. Clavie Cheil says:

      Lost says:
      4 March, 2021 at 10:30 pm

      Lost interest at the first paragraph, all I can think is “is this SNP’s way of telling us we have to wait another 700 for Independence.”

      Tired, cranky and don’t have alot of patience for bullshit just now. A year of covid restrictions takes a toll on you. Nicola Sturgeon has spent years telling us how she’s going to get us Independence, but didn’t, would listen to us on GRA, but didn’t, didn’t know anything about AS allegations before April 2018, but did.

      Lost my vote here. They cannot be trusted, don’t care if they were going to give every adult in Scotland a million pounds. I cannot bring myself to vote for people who tried to get an innocent man jailed and put people’s safety at risk for a law that a minute percentage of people want.

      ———————————————————–

      That is a pretty good summary of why they arent getting my vote this time either.

      I am now up to 57 lost friends on FB. That is a lot of Sturgeon Cultists purged from my life. I feel cleaner with each passing hour.

    185. Big Jock says:

      Clavie – Same. I have found the last week very stressful. Particularly when friends text you saying how wonderful Sturgeon performed.

      I then send them an angry rant about Nicola and leaving the party after 32 years.

      Some of the stuff I am telling them must be earth shattering. But I need to.

    186. Glenislay says:

      Piffle paffle, wiffle woffle

      This aping of Bawjaws by the SNP in saying a little as possible in as many words as possible is insulting.

    187. Robert Graham says:

      Going to be a whole lot of Arses with splinters in them from fence sitting , a lot of usually vocal contributors stuck in the middle of the road in danger of getting whacked by both sides let’s see who can body swerve being involved by using the best bull shit, it should be entertaining

    188. Dan says:

      @ Big Jock at 11.05pm

      Re. Messages

      It was around the time the criminal investigation started.

      The messages leaked to MacAskill claimed to be from 2019, sent the day after Salmond was charged with sexual offences.

      https://archive.is/6Id81

      Not sure if Daisy Walker included this aspect in any of her timeline work.

    189. A Person says:

      -Tannadice-

      Let us hope it does not come to that.

      I sometimes think I will advise my sons to look for work in England.

      You can’t beat them so you might as well join them.

    190. Geoff Anderson says:

      Having only left the Party recently the story doesn’t surprise me!
      However I can still remember convincing myself that the membership would take back control so it is difficult to break through the loyalty/desperate desire for Indy barrier.

      The membership may stay with them until the election. It is very difficult to judge. Looking back I cannot understand why I stayed so how can I predict others but the lightbulb moment comes eventually.

      One thing I am certain about. A surge in membership didn’t happen recently. I suspect they gave some “free” memberships to buddies of the Wokerati as part of a PR stunt. Probably a few hundred enthusiastic woke who will generate tweets. That is the Peter Murrell style.

    191. Neil in Glasgow says:

      Jontoscots20

      I agree with absolutely almost everything you said there.

      I was trying to be subtle with the set up to the rest of my point. However perhaps tight is a bit old fashioned, I give you that. Possibly frugal should be the word. I would describe myself as tight/frugal and I also work in financial services. From what I’ve seen with some people, it’s not actually a bad position to take. Doesn’t mean you want to die with thousands in the bank (Christ my kids milk me for enough as it is!) but living within your means and sacrificing some stuff you really don’t need isn’t the worst thing in the world

    192. MorvenM says:

      Last and final is a tautology.

      My old English teacher would have been furious.

    193. boris says:

      https://caltonjock.com/2021/03/04/sturgeons-hatchet-job-on-alex-salmond-backfires-and-badly-damages-her-credibility/

      Sturgeon showboated with a vengeance seizing the narrative and delivering a carefully choreographed display of ostentatious behaviour designed to divert the attention of the Inquiry and television viewers away from the abject performance of herself, her Spad’s and senior civil servants.

      Her cavalier “devil may care” attitude most certainly attracted attention but any admiration for her faded in consequence of her persistent blatant, inaccurate and unwarranted attacks on the character of Alex Salmond. A tactic not employed by Alex Salmond at the time he gave evidence to the Inquiry.

    194. Don says:

      @Lynne 4 March, 2021 at 6:18 pm

      “I fell asleep in paragraph 4.1 ”

      3 paragraphs better than me.
      Its basically Donkey fodder, written probably by someone over 70 years of age who sleeps with a reproduction Claymore under the bed and wasn’t allowed to sit the 11 plus exam because they were not bright enough. The underlined titles that take up 4 lines are probably because they couldn’t think of much else to write. If Mike Russell really wrote that he shouldn’t be even allowed close to any sort of job with any responsibilty at all.
      The best bit if you were alert was the Randomly and Inconsistently Capitalised words near the beginning.

    195. James M says:

      “the legal advice from Roddy Dunlop QC to the government in
      4th Sept 2018?”

      Can’t find this among the recent papers on the Committee’s website – can someone post the link please?

    196. Kcor says:

      I wouldn’t believe a word of what the current totally corrupt criminals leading the SNP say.

      They have embezzled £600,000 of ‘ring fenced’ independence referendum donations to pay the legal fees of criminals who conspired to put an innocent man in jail, and to fill the trousers of the criminals Murrell and Rodick, amongst others.

      Shame on Craig Murray for advocating both votes SNP. Has he been bought?

    197. Tannadice Boy says:

      @A Person 11:29pm
      It’s not my sons that I worry about. Have you met the males in my family and extended family?. They scare me, never mind anybody else. Our family has a long history of active service WW1 and WW2. And later campaigns, including myself. And yet most of them voted for Independence. Go figure. Now we are planning to get our women out. Street strife?, The RUC lasted 3 days. History will repeat itself. Thanks Nicky.

    198. Don says:

      @Matt Seattle 4 March, 2021 at 8:12 pm

      “Both “last and final”?
      That’s serious, Mike!”

      Maybe he was tying to write something more serious than an
      “11 point plan” none of your Yoon 10 point plans here..begone.

    199. Kcor says:

      Effigy says:
      4 March, 2021 at 6:54 pm

      “O/T”

      Is there any particular reason that your first comment on every post is O/T?

      In this case it was comment number 37.

      Genuinely interested to know.

    200. Kcor says:

      John Cleary says:

      “I’m sorry but the people of Scotland are NOT sovereign.
      I wish it were otherwise, I really do. But until you can get out of this wretched union then you are not sovereign.

      If you continue to believe you are sovereign, then you (the independence movement) will continue to flounder. You MUST deal with the world as it is.”

      100% agreed.

    201. Bob Mack says:

      @Kiwilassie,

      Yes, that’s part of it. Rather shows Nicola lied when she stated the government never considered sisting the Review.

      They did ,and even talked about the implications should Alex go to trial and be found innocent. This explains the Moorov doctrine approach. They knew the Review was in big trouble as opposed to what Sturgeon claimed.

      They had to keep it going to gather witnesses and accusations against Alex, and they had to be sure of a conviction of some form. They therefore ended up with all these nonsense charges hoping one would work…

    202. Andy White says:

      I wonder, on Stu’s last point about council cooperation being necessary, whether they will simply use this to gather maximum support for the 2022 Scottish local elections, although they know winning all of them is a practical impossibility.

    203. cirsium says:

      Rev – your manifesto would have my vote.

      @jontoscots20, 10.45. Good comment. Professor Woolhouse said last summer

      “We must not allow the cure to become worse than the disease. That long term strategy has to be a risk-based approach to living with Covid-19. This is a very unpleasant virus but, for the great majority of people, not nearly so unpleasant that we should contemplate shutting down society to deal with it.”

    204. Al-Stuart says:

      .
      AwakeNitWoke, thank you for finding that. I cannot face voting Conservative. Am struggling with voting SNP 1 or 22.

      Every time I consider voting for Sturgeon’s SNP, I will have a look at the FIFTY times Honest Nicola said I DON’T KNOW during the EVIDENCE she gave under OATH yesterday…

      https://mobile.twitter.com/ScotTories/status/1367542180307435525?s=19

      Anyone REALLY telling the truth would not vascillate that much.

    205. Kcor says:

      Hendo says:
      4 March, 2021 at 9:34 pm

      “How do we get independence without the vehicle that is the SNP?”

      That vehicle is broken beyond repair, IMHO.

      Led by corrupt criminals, and with stooges in the NEC and in both parliaments who have zero intention of delivering independence.

      The independence moment needs a brand new vehicle, full of genuine independence supporters and someone like Alex Salmond in the driving seat.

      We all know why they were so desperate to prevent AS from returning.

      Labour has never been reformed for the better from within, and the current SNP is far worse than Labour ever was. Even at its worst, there were Labour MPs who would rebel and vote against the party line.

      I am sorry to say, but I don’t see McAskill or Cherry rebelling in the real sense of the word. Otherwise they would have been thrown out.

      There doesn’t seem to be a single SNP MSP who is disgusted by what Sturgeon and her cabal have done to Alex Salmond and is willing to rebel against her in the Scottish parliament.

    206. Elmac says:

      Has our old friend Rock returned as Kcor. If so I hope he has reversed his views as well as his name.

    207. Confused says:

      rock shall not return for 622 years

    208. @ Kcor at 12.44am: I’m not really disagreeing with you, but I would guess that Joanna Cherry, Kenny MacAskill and others may be waiting to see what the outcome of the inquiries is before they make any irreversible decisions. No doubt there are plenty who have committed a great deal – indeed, their life’s work – to the SNP, and aren’t willing to give up on it at the drop of a hat. I don’t think any of us can make a firm decision on how to proceed until we know whether or not the SNP is salvageable. The situation might look entirely different in two or three weeks’ time.

    209. David Caledonia says:

      We are not all grammar experts, its what is says that matters

    210. Kiwilassie says:

      @ Bob Mack
      They had to keep it going to gather witnesses and accusations against Alex, and they had to be sure of a conviction of some form. They therefore ended up with all these nonsense charges hoping one would work.
      ____________
      I read one of Craig Murrays blogs & he said the police interviewed 400 people within the public, whos names were given to them by the Scots gov/civil service. They didn’t get one complaint.
      ____
      This is in my humble opinion, is why I believe the reason behind the other complainers for the criminal court were all people within Nicolas wee circle.
      The original two complainers were real & had years ago settled the complaint through mediation with Alex.
      I believe the original complainers were used as cannon fodder in the SG attack on Alex.
      It was Alex who got them name anonymity, to protect them. The Scots Gove weren’t even at that JR. They even at that time weren’t protecting the two women.
      I guess that’s why they had to manufacture complaints within the small circle surrounding Nicola

    211. AndrewR says:

      Yours is much much better, obviously, and shows up the SNP waffle. But do you have a reason for limiting the 50% majority to the SNP, rather than including other parties of independence in it?

    212. twathater says:

      Does Mike Russell have a dictionary if so he might make Nicla aware of what a promise means

      “In 2016 the Scottish National Party sought election and formed a government in Scotland on the promise”

      noun 1.
      a declaration or assurance that one will do something or that a particular thing will happen.

      verb
      1.
      assure someone that one will definitely do something or that something will happen.

      We Scots are still waiting on the 2016 PROMISE happening

      Will the 2021 promise be honoured (NAW)

    213. Disillusioned says:

      So, this is the best they can do? Jesus wept.

    214. Coops says:

      ‘at some point a sub-editor will explain to someone that “MSPs” doesn’t have a sodding apostrophe in it.’

      Depends if they have a second job as a Greengrocer……

    215. James Barr Gardner says:

      Flying Monkeys! The trail of nutshells leads all the way back to Bute House !

    216. Name (required) says:

      sorry for off topic and a day late to boot.

      “today i joined the Roundheads, i have know Cromwell since the 16 Century and he is a man you can trust, He never losses his head in matters of state and DOES NOT LIE. along with 7000 others we are the imaginary hordes of yore – come join us” #cromwelllives

    217. James says:

      Maybe Janey Godley will start making her “hilarious “ videos again.

    218. Robert Louis says:

      I see what they are attempting to do, and it is going in the right direction. So, I do not think we can be overly critical. At last, we might say, they have finally realised London will, of their own volition, let them do things once hell freezes over.

      Having said that, I much preder the REV’s version, or something akin to it. If we start talking of Scottish constitutional law, then we must accept the people of Scotland are sovereign, so their is no further need for requests to London. We know they have zero respect for the consitutional laws of Scotland (or ANY country, anywhere, for that matter).

      No, I am on the fence about spoiling my consituency ballot. If the SNP want my vote, then the manifesto MUST be along the lines of what REVSTU prepared. Their is no need (or time) for further debate, or provarication, or politely seeking ‘permission’ from England’s government. That has been done for the last four years. How did England’s government respond?? They spat on the people of Scotland over, and over, and over again.

      England’s government will not change its behaviour until such time as the Scottish government grows up, and stops behaving like it is still the 1920’s, when Westminster was a ‘jolly’ nice place, full of ‘jolly nice’ chaps, with a shred of integrity. Those days are gone. England;s government is a corrupt cabal of careerists, and criminals, every single last one of them. Just 20 years or so ago, every single last one of the cabinet in London would be up at the old bailey on corruption and racketeering charges. Nowadays they are knighted by Lizzie Windsor and given unelected peerages.

      We, the people of Scotland (and by extension the SNP in its manifesto) will get nowhere by asking any more. Lokk at the history books, Ireland asked, got nothing, American asked, got nothing, India asked, got nothing, Malta asked, got nothing. Scotland is no different. The manifesto, if it to be taken seriously by anybody simply MUST go straight to the point. Enough is enough. A majority in May, means the union is over. It is simple, it is easy, wholly democratic and, more to the point, London will soil its underwear. Nothing less will do.

      Scotland has been utterly shafted by England’s government over the last four years. They respect nobody and nothing. They treat Scots as underlings, whose democratic views are irrelevant. They forcibly dragged Scotland out of the EU, wholly against the clear democratic wishes of the people of Scotland. They have forcibly stripped Scots of their EU citizenship, and are STILL to this day trashing our industries and removing our human rights. That is the measure of the barstewards that make up England’s government, and their fat, lazy, pig-ignorant, bullingdon boy, thuggish slob of a first Minister, Alexander Boris De Pfeffle Johnson.

      Asking is pointless. The SNP need to go for the jugular and make the election in May a vote to end the union. Job done. They will get my vote and full support if they do. No more provarication. It is now or never.

    219. Astonished says:

      `
      David Caledonia says:
      5 March, 2021 at 1:57 am
      “We are not all grammar experts, its what is says that matters”

      And what it says is – ‘give us your money and we can fool you again into believing we have a plan for independence. When we clearly don’t’.

      As I have said before – its the lack of the ring-fenced money that will destroy them. And good riddance.

    220. Robert Louis says:

      To the grammer junkies commenting. Yes, it is all very interesting, pointing out spelling/grammer gaffes (‘look how clever, clever I am!’), but this is a draft document, which has likely been created over a period of time by several different contributors adding bits.

      With such a document, you deal with grammer, spelling etc.. once it is finished – well, normal people do. To do othersies is just silly.

    221. Wee Chid says:

      David Caledonia says:
      5 March, 2021 at 1:57 am
      “We are not all grammar experts, its what is says that matters”.

      It’s basic literacy that we learned in primary school. I’d expect at least that level from people in positions of power. Everything that is produced at that level should be proof read – especially if the person producing the work does not have the adequate skills required.

      What it says is:-

      “Here is another carrot for the gullible. We know how stupid they are and that they will fall for it again”

      No thank you. I never was very fond of carrots and it appear that they really don’t help one see more clearly after all, certainly not when they are permanently dangled just, ever so slightly, out of reach.

    222. Breeks says:

      It’s not the grammar that annoys me, but the fact this Scottish Government had the perfect Constitutional stand-off and divine opportunity to defend the sovereign will of the people with Scotland’s emphatic democratic rejection of Brexit.

      Why on earth would I trust waffle and pish from the gutless cowards who abdicated Scotland’s Sovereign rights and capitulated to Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation and humiliating extraction from Europe when they were presented with the perfect opportunity to defend it? These charlatan gobshites have earned my utter and lasting contempt.

      Talk is cheap, and when it comes to Scotland’s Constitution the SNP seem cheaper than most.

      Instead of some amateurish rehash of Scotland’s inviolable Constitution, a much more pressing matter is the urgent need for a codified method of impeachment for a rabble of (t)reacherous and unworthy rogues masquerading as a Constitutional Scottish Government.

    223. Ian says:

      The problem for many of those that want to stay in the Union, is that the UK of 2014 no longer exists. A post-Brexit economic policy based on the privatisation of what little remains to be privatised (NHS) and that only benefits the already very wealthy, leaving the vast majority worse off, is the future for the UK.

      The problem for many of those that want independence, is that the SNP of 2014 no longer exists, nor does it’s focus on independence. The consequence of this is that Scotland is likely to remain in the UK and suffer the same consequences of it’s policies and decline as a result

      The difference is that while the UK is extremely unlikely to be changed back to a pre-Brexit time of 2014, the SNP could be. Brexit will likely be what definitively wrecks the UK in the years to come. A lack of commitment to independence and the key economic issues directly related to it, will likely be what definitively wrecks Scotland in the years to come if it remains in the UK.

      The only change that can prevent this happening is if the SNP again becomes a political party committed to independence, with a clear focus on related economic matters and run in the open and democratic way that it was up to 2014. That would leave many with little reason to vote for a UK that no longer exists and is in clear long term decline, but a strong reason to vote for an SNP committed to an independence based on a sound economic basis.

      Domestic issues could be pursued after the main prerequisite for real control of matters in Scotland has been achieved – independence. Focusing so strongly on domestic matters, as the current SNP continue to be and with so many of these being deeply contentious and divisive issues (GRA, HCB), while largely displaying a serious avoidance of the critical independence related economic issues, only hugely dilutes the commitment to and support for independence.

      What happens within the SNP within the coming weeks will determine if the SNP are prepared to get serious again about independence. The draft manifesto suggests that it isn’t.

    224. Barry Johnson says:

      The alternative manifesto doesn’t hold up. The right to self determination exists, but not the right to seccesion.

      The UK could point to the recent referendum – and the fact that seccession is a 50/50 issue at best in Scotland.

      Given that the UK is a permanent security council member and could veto any attempts at un membership this UDI Scotland could expect support from North Korea and maybe Russia, if Putin is feeling mischievous.

    225. Willie says:

      Just been listening to some Tory bint down south justifying the 1% wage increase to NHS staff.

      Says it needs to at this level because they have other workers to support who are losing their jobs and that they need these workers to fund the NHS. So does that mean all that clap for heroes was a load of old tosh. Does that mean that if the HNS staff don’t suck it up then they’ will be out a job because as the minister says that’s the most we can afford.

      Shafted, friggin shafted, that’s all the the NHS staff who delivered bravely in thecteethbof the pandemic with inadequate PPE. And to those who contracted COVID in the line of duty and died, their sacrifice is forgotten. Get it right up you NHS staff, there’s more important than you. As foot foot soldiers you’ve done your bit. Now clear off.

      Meanwhile they’re lavishing all the best treatment treatment in the world on that old fascist the Chookie Edinburgh.

      And you know what, the sheeples don’t care. They vote governments like this in. Just wait till they privatise the NHS. Then like Mike Russell the President of the SNP advises you can, with your vouchers buy the healthcare you need.

      Ah who cares. Vote SNP, vote for Westminster’s little helpers in Scotland – the Yellow Tories.

    226. Footsoldier says:

      I agree the SNP requires overhaul and complete focus on independence. A strategist would say maximise SNP vote for May and afterwards do what you have to.

      With independence, many people think the SNP will fragment at the first GE in an indepenedent Scotland. That is the time to set your course.

      Diminishing the SNP vote now is exactly what the unionists want – do not play into their hands.

    227. Effigy says:

      Kcor,

      Glad you are interested!

      If I see yet another piece of Tory or Westminster deceit or lies,
      I like to make all readers here aware of it, all be it not central to
      the current discussion.

      PS Priti Patel cost the Tax Payer £370,000 in compensation costs,
      Obviously heavy internal costs on top, for being a bully and breaking
      the Ministerial Code.

      For some unknown reason wee Baroness Ruthless hasn’t demand she resign?

      I understand your frustration when I show your team to be lying, cheating, devious fascists
      and you have no way of defending them it brings you sadness.

      Tomorrow will be a better independent day!

    228. Captain Yossarian says:

      Yesterday, Willie Rennie asked Nicola Sturgeon if the OECD education report was going to be issued before the election do that she could be ‘judged on education’ a she promised. Nicola Sturgeon just looked up to the ceiling. Not interested in being judged on education; or on anything else. Judges judge Nicola’s opponents, not her. Welcome to the Junta.

    229. Breeks says:

      Footsoldier says:
      5 March, 2021 at 8:30 am

      Diminishing the SNP vote now is exactly what the unionists want – do not play into their hands.

      How dare you lay that on true Independence supporters who have been unstinting in their support and commitment to Scottish Independence while the charlatans at the SNP were pissings Scotland’s sovereign Constitution up against the wall, selling out Scotland’s European Citizenship, and were much too busy plotting the rise of Transextremist lunacy and the criminal conspiracy to jail Alex Salmond that they didn’t even have time to discuss Independence during a white hot critical 18 month period.

      Yet somehow it’s “us” who’s playing into the hand’s of Scotland’s enemies??? Be sure to do some strenching exercises and do a proper warm up routine before you fuck off. Wouldn’t want you to pull a hamstring.

    230. kapelmeister says:

      Footsoldier @8:30

      Having a non-nationalist leadership of the SNP with Stalinist control over the party is exactly what London wants and that is exactly what it has presently got.

    231. Astonished says:

      Footsoldier – I am heartily sick of your pish. You want to maximize the indy vote then you need to do five things :

      1. Drop the GRA bill for ever from the SNP commitments. Until independence.
      2. Remove the duplicitious (and he’s not even good at that)humza useless from the cabinet and drop the Hate crime bill. Until independence.
      3. Announce the May election is a plebiscite on independence.
      4. Make the same rules apply to everyone even the genderwoowoo.
      5 Suspend immediately : Peter Murrell and Kirsten Oswald pending investigation

      Ordinary members can do nothing about any of the above. It requires leadership.

      The grassroots of the SNP have been sidelined and ignored by the leadership. The ONLY thing ordinary SNP members can do is withhold their vote. The person to blame is Nicola Sturgeon.

      Could you possibly write to her and tell her not to split the vote ?

      That it has come to this.

    232. Astonished says:

      May I also add the other thing the ordinary members can do is withhold their donations. And they appear to be doing just that.

    233. Baxter says:

      Interesting to see that three more documents of legal advice have been released, in the fourth of September 2018 document they speak about certain elements off Alex Salmond’s grounds for review being time barred and use the date of the 7th March as the starting date. In the LA’s reply he states that both the SG and the PS were proper respondents.
      Is the 7th March date being used a problem for our dear leader in that I thought that date was when her COS informally spoke with Aberdein and arranged a meeting for the 29th? How does that date and the LA’s statement of the SG being a proper respondent tie in with the dates when Nicola was removed from the loop of being informed in the new procedure?

    234. Ruby says:

      Any chance of the May election being postponed?

      Alternatively perhaps I could hand over the decision on how I should vote to someone who doesn’t have a vote.

      Anyone interested? I live in Edinburgh Central.

    235. Bob Mack says:

      @Baxter,

      This is where you have to expel logic I’m afraid. Clearly. The date is the 7th of March, but Nicola claims to have known nothing about any of this till 2nd April.

      You have to believe the Head of the Civil service and her Spdcial Advisor told her nothing at all. Not a word.

    236. Dee Dubya says:

      Madness lies in hoping to convince marketing people to spell, punctuate, Capitalise or use words for what they mean. They also like loadsa words.

      Certainly the upward trend in personal perception of Stress and Anguish felt by many in The Horse and Buggy demographic can be ascribed, in the main, to a direct impact of the fluid and creative use of semiotics to turbocharge modern messaging deployed by a new generation capable of brainstorming and relating.

      Ya Loada Bams in my opinion.

    237. Big Jock says:

      Ruby – I would like it postponed.

      I would like a new leader of the SNP bedded in, and the dirt cleaned from the party. What is happening right now is the Murrell’s desperately trying to get to the end of March still in power. Then they know they can do what they want after May. Another 5 years of the Murrell’s , let that sink in.

      It is because I want independence , that I want rid of Sturgeon. The blind faithful will do as they are told , and believe the crap about one more mandate in May.

      Sturgeon is still blaming Salmond for her government’s failings. She has cast us aside because we won’t be disloyal to Salmond. The Yes movement is not the SNP. Indeed the Yes movement is much bigger than the SNP.

      One person is causing all this division, and she must go.

    238. Ian Spruce says:

      @Baxter

      7 March – Was this not the date of the letter advising Alex of the complaints? That is known as the date of knowledge I believe

      As I understand it, under the procedure, he had 3 months to raise issue with some parts of the process.

      If no concerns were raised then that aspect is time barred. However, if there are extenuating circumstances then the time bar can be set aside by the Court.

    239. Bob Mack says:

      @DeeDubya, Did it take long to copy that oot ?

    240. Socrates MacSporran says:

      The Unionists, led by the Tories, are already ramping up the heat on Sturgeon. Today, the Tories have a clip on Facebook, listing the 50 times, during her appearance in front of the committee, when Sturgeon’s memory let her down.

      They have another piece going the rounds, laying out further inconsistencies in her story.

      For the moment, the usual suspects, such as The Hootsmon, appear to be backing Sturgeon’s version of events rather than Alex Salmond’s.

      This, I feel sure, will change as we get into the election campaign. This is going to be one very dirty battle; and the SNP has a leader who is going to be attacked as never before, doesn’t have many media friends and is uncomfortable under pressure.

      Of course, if the Tories put Ruth Davidson up against her, Sturgeon has the: “I’m putting myself up to the judgement of the voters, she’s off to the unelected House of Lords” defence, but not much more to rely on.

      I fear, as has been the case throughout Sturgeon’s rule – the SNP advantage in opinion polls, will not transfer as well to the ballot box, and the cause of independence will be harmed.

      If she is not removed, we may have to wait another decade, and for here retirement, for independence.

    241. Baxter says:

      @ Bob Mack

      Whether or not her COS and PS told her anything between the 7th March or the 2nd April as head of the SG Nicola takes responsibility for issues her underlings may have done or even if they failed to do them properly. In my view those three documents released on the 4th of March 2021 puts Sturgeon straight back under the spotlight, either she knew or should have known about claims against Alex Salmond from the 7th March 2018 or she has to sack immediately both her COS and the PS for their failures.
      Has John Swinney just landed Nicola and her coven right in it?

    242. Claire says:

      Response for Baxter

      Nicola was being protected .. she took this back step to assist in advancing the criminal investigations hoping that the JR would be overtaken . These dates tie up with the WhatsApp Vietnam group that Peter Murrell is part of . Peter Murrell is CEO of the SNP he is not an elected Govt. official .. why was he trying to interfere with the police investigation . ? NS is worried about these messages ! She is top drawer sleaze .. Murdo Fraser put the evidence to her regarding GA she responded I haven’t seen the evidence ! The original complainants were historical why were they raised again . Remembering the comments regarding the IO bordering on encouragement .. these two women were used ! The GA part of this story really is just the tip of the iceberg . The Order by LD is being used to in AS words “ Shield the Mighty”

      Police Scotland role is deeply troubling .. they are currently investigating PM leaked text messages . . On whose direction? Much more to come .. NS will not resign .. she will be forced !

    243. McDuff says:

      How has it come to this, the SNP and it’s leader whose one goal should be independence are actively destroying that dream in front of our eyes. Why.
      How has it come to this ,what the hell is going on. And apart from the few why are the SNP MP/MSPs so silent???????

    244. Baxter says:

      @ Ian Spruce

      Was there an official letter? I’m relatively new to this and struggling with the shear amount of information and my memory! I thought that AS said he was informed either 7th or 8th and by telephone by GA, going by his performance last week if there was a letter then I would have thought he would have been very clear on dates.
      I think it may be time to go back and start writing down dates and information but there are a lot of very well informed people on here who have been interesting to read and who may already have a timeline in place.

    245. Ruby says:

      Big Jock says:
      I would like a new leader of the SNP

      Reply

      I’ve been wanting that since she fired Mark MacDonald for sending a text.

      How do you get rid of her?

      Are you quite happy with the rest of the SNP?

      I know that Unionists thought she made a great decision re ‘Sex Pest’ Mark MacDonald but I’m not sure what SNP politicians/members said – did they all just keep quiet?

    246. Effigy says:

      Today would be a good day for the Scottish Government to
      announce the pay rise for Scotland’s Nurses and Paramedics.

      Laying it on thick, they should put on record that they are shocked at
      the proposed cut in pay the Tories propose for those proclaimed as
      Hero’s and who put their lives on the line working with only a promise of
      PPE at some point.

      England has a staff shortage of just under 50,000.
      They chased many from the EU away with Brexit.
      They chased others away with fees of £1,200 for medical work permits.
      They previously capped Nurses pay that with inflation gave them a 15% pay cut.
      They stopped bursaries for nurses training so training now racks up enormous debt.

      The signs are as plain as the nose on your face that the Tories want the NHS to fail
      and sell it off, just as they have sold every other national asset, BT, Royal Mail, etc.

      Scotland currently pays its staff at a higher rate than England.
      We offer free training and university placements.
      We welcome those from abroad when Westminster allows it.
      Our actions show that our NHS is not being prepared to fail and sell on.

      We hope to do more for nurses in future but an immediate 3% rise and our eternal gratitude
      must be given now.

      Why are these open goals all allowed to drift past the noses of the SNP Government?

    247. Alf Baird says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 9:24

      “If she is not removed, we may have to wait another decade, and for here retirement, for independence.”

      Not necessarily. A List majority vote for an independence party(s) is effectively a democratic national majority vote in favour of independence. Unless you believe that is somehow meaningless.

    248. Republicofscotland says:

      James Hamilton QC will be taking testimony from Alex Salmond today.

    249. Big Jock says:

      Ruby. No I am not happy with the rest of the SNP. However to remove the rot , you cut the fish from the head. Once you remove the Murrell’s and a new leader gets to pick their own cabinet , then the SNP could be rescued.

      It also involves changing policies ,the NEC , Woke. Basically cleansing the toxins. It’s a big job, but not impossible for a new leader.

      At least if the Murrell’s were gone I would feel morally better about voting SNP.

    250. Angus F MacLeod says:

      Where do people that wanted to leave the corrupt UK go now that we see that an independent Scotland would be just as bad with an authoritarian and corrupt leadership who don’t even listen to their own members? We are running out of time for an alternative being in place for May.

    251. Robert Graham says:

      Life used to be reasonably simple ,The SNP had one Aim Independence and how to achieve it , one Aim and one for the want of a better term one enemy most people could relate to this simple idea,

      A few years ago in fighting and grumbling started because of the lack of purpose and progress No Indy ref on the horizon online arguments broke out this was obvious to people who followed politics but the SNP management were oblivious to what was happening , this combined with a real increase of propaganda that was getting more intense by the week still No movement from the SNP

      Weak useless management and direction from the SNP who were happy to see AUOB do the hard work , it took quite a few marches to embarrass some MPs and MSPs into to joining not all some The one missing was Nicola Sturgeon and most of her cabinet as far as I am aware unless she attended in disguise she was a No show basking in the publicity but not joining in .

      This split is all down to a failure of the current management they have let themselves be distracted because the people that joined the marches that were organised without any assistance and sometimes with resistance from some quarters in the SNP

      And Team Nicola and happy to brand people who are asking WTF is going on as Unionist infiltrators and a danger to achieving Indy ref 2 no wonder there is a serious difference of opinion this began well before the failed disappearance of one man not a Army one man .

    252. Ruby says:

      Nicola Sturgeon now getting the ‘sympathy vote’

    253. Bill Mackay says:

      I know ..but it’s worth a read …
      Friday, 5 March 2021
      Did Sturgeon want a sexual predator to lead an independent Scotland?

      During the day of the referendum in September 2014 Alex Salmond thought Yes had won. Polls and momentum were with the SNP. David Cameron was panicking. We might have woken up to a world where Alex Salmond was the First Minister of an independent Scotland in March 2016. In that case would he have been investigated and eventually charged with sexual assault and attempted rape only a year later?

      The alleged offences that Mr Salmond was charged with and acquitted happened between 2008 and 2014. If what the women accusers said was true, then the person Nicola Sturgeon campaigned to be the first leader of an independent Scotland in centuries was a man who assaulted women. Was she wrong to campaign alongside him? If so, she ought to apologise to all of us.

      Sturgeon accepts that Salmond was acquitted but maintains that he behaved badly to various women. But in that case, she wanted the first leader of an independent Scotland to be someone who behaved badly towards women. Every member of the SNP who campaigned for independence in 2014, who accepts Sturgeon’s version of events wanted a man who caused nine women to complain about sexual assault or worse to be the leader of an independent Scotland. When do they apologise for this?

      The only alternative to this version of events is that what the women accused Salmond of was untrue. This is essentially what the jury believed. If the jury had believed the events that the women accused Salmond of doing had taken place, they would have convicted him. It may be that Salmond sometimes behaved badly, but the jury believed he did nothing criminal. But to believe that he did nothing criminal is to believe that the events the women described did not happen.

      So, the SNP are on the horns of a dilemma. Either Salmond assaulted women, but was lucky enough to get away with it, in which case it was monstrous that they wanted him to lead an independent Scotland, or the accusation of criminality was untrue, in which case why was there an investigation of Salmond beginning in November 2017.

      We can assume that there would have been no investigation of First Minister Salmond in 2017 if he was the first leader of an independent Scotland. There might have been statues of him, but not court cases. What changed because he lost the referendum in 2014? The main thing that changed for him was that he ceased to be First Minister and leader of the SNP and was replaced by Nicola Sturgeon.

      So why was there an investigation in November 2017? It is worth remembering that the initial Harvey Weinstein revelations started on 5th October 2017. A month or so later the procedure for dealing with complaints was changed to include former ministers and not long after that an investigation began to search for people who might have been sexually assaulted by Salmond.

      Now either Sturgeon wanted to elect a monster as the first leader of an independent Scotland or the allegations against Salmond were untrue. But if the allegations were untrue, how did it come about that nine women witnesses came forward. Did this just happen spontaneously? But why would women put themselves to the trouble of describing a series of untrue events against Salmond? Did they all just happen to come forward or were they encouraged? To suppose that what the women said was untrue, and otherwise Sturgeon wanted a monster leading Scotland, is to suppose that there was a guiding hand behind the women coming forward. It is highly unlikely that nine women would make up stories just for the sake of it.

      The courts decided that the investigation by the Scottish Government into Salmond was tainted with bias and awarded him more than half a million in costs. It was biased because the person in charge of the investigation knew those involved beforehand. But it was biased in another way. It only took place at all because Salmond lost the referendum in 2014. If Nicola Sturgeon had not been First Minister, there would have been no investigation biased or otherwise. But not only would there have been no investigation, there would have been no accusations. It is unimaginable that the nine women would have accused the first leader of an independent Scotland of sexual assault during the years prior to that referendum, not least because it is reasonable to assume that many if not most of them were independence supporters or SNP members.

      What this means is that if Alex Salmond had been sent to jail, he would have essentially been sent to jail for losing the independence referendum in 2014, which is a harsh punishment for losing an election.

      We know that Nicola Sturgeon was and is sympathetic to #Metoo. We know that there was only an investigation into Salmond because she was First Minister. We know that the Scottish Government forced the women accusers to go to the police and various text messages suggest that people close to Sturgeon like her husband Peter Murrell were opposed to Salmond and keen for the police investigate him. But we are supposed to believe that Sturgeon was not involved in any of this, knew absolutely nothing and had no view or even knowledge of Mr Salmond’s behaviour.

      If the accusations against Salmond were true, then women who closely worked with Salmond and probably Sturgeon too were regularly sexually assaulted for many years up to the referendum in 2014. Either Sturgeon knew nothing about this, in which case we may wonder why women were so unwilling to confide in her or she was well aware of Salmond’s behaviour but chose to ignore it because winning independence was more important. If allegations of sexual harassment against Salmond had become known in 2014 it would have destroyed the Yes campaign.

      If Salmond had really been harassing women for years prior to 2014 it is as unimaginable that rumours would not have reached Sturgeon just as rumours about Weinstein were known years before he was finally accused.

      But if Salmond had done nothing criminal, which the jury believed, how was it that an investigation into him started. We know that it would not have started if he led an independent Scotland. It only started because he lost in 2014 resigned and was replaced with Sturgeon. Yet we are supposed to believe she knew nothing about it and was not involved.

      If Salmond did nothing criminal, then not only the investigation into him was unjust, but the court case should never have gone to trial at all. In that case Sturgeon should apologise to Salmond and to the rest of us for wasting so much public money.

      If on the other hand the women who accused Salmond of criminal acts were telling the truth, then Sturgeon like every other SNP politician in 2014 wanted a monster to become the leader of an independent Scotland and wanted that even though there were rumours widely known in the party about him.

      We don’t know the ultimate truth about what Alex Salmond did or did not do. There are a variety of versions of events. But either Salmond was justly acquitted or unjustly. Sturgeon’s Government either unjustly went after an innocent man, or she wanted a sexual predator to be the leader of an independent Scotland. Either way she can no longer evade responsibility by claiming implausibly that she knows nothing.

    254. Republicofscotland says:

      According to the Scottish press the Scottish government published more of their legal advice last night.

      The new papers include exchanges between the Lord Advocate and Nicola Sturgeon the FM, on whether or not to sist the Judicial review, to allow the criminal court case against Alex Salmond to run its course.

      I take from this, that the hope was that Salmond would be found guilty and the Judicial review would then fade into the background and quietly be dropped altogether, however Sturgeon and the Lord Advocate, didn’t reckon on Salmond being found innocent.

    255. Mac says:

      Feels like it has been a bit of watershed few days but not because of any new information as such.

      What I have realized is that I will never ever be able to stand again with the Sturgeonite Independence supporters who were cheerleading those endless attempts by Sturgeon to smear Salmond, just as she has been doing endlessly since the very outset of her stitch-up, it has been non-stop.

      The thing is we are now so far into this that the evidence is overwhelming. They are not useful idiots at this point. They are more like willing accomplices.

      I cant tell you how much they disgust me. I feel almost identical right now about them as I did NO voters in the aftermath of 2014. Really very similar.

      Alex Salmond himself could endorse voting for the SNP at the next election and it would not make any difference. Cold day in hell before I would vote for these dogs.

    256. Harry says:

      “A mere 6 years ago the People of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to make that parliament in Holyrood permanent”

      Genuine question – When did we vote on this?

    257. ScotsRenewables says:

      Mac, if you want to support Alex and he asks you to vote SNP then I suggest you do it.

      Anything else would be childish and contradictory.

      I for one am looking forward to hearing exactly what Alex has to say about our votes.

    258. Ruby says:

      Bill Mackay says:
      5 March, 2021 at 9:57 am
      I know ..but it’s worth a read

      Reply

      What is it that you think is worth a read? Is it a newspaper article or is it something you have written?

    259. Mia says:

      “Diminishing the SNP vote now is exactly what the unionists want”

      On the contrary.
      What the British state wants is to finish the job they started in November 2017: completely destroy Mr Salmond’s reputation so there is no way he can ever front a political party again and more importantly, May 2021 does not become a plebiscitary election.

      What the British state wants is to keep for the time being the fraud, totally unprincipled, devoid of integrity and ethics, proficient ministerial code breaker but fully compliant Sturgeon in power until May so the transference of control of the SNP can be handed over to their next tainted and maleable puppet who, despite being parachuted as the main candidate by blocking the best candidate to the seat, still needs to actually win the seat.

      But hey, if they managed to totally destroy the democratic structures of the party, they managed to supress information for so many months, they managed to instigate the biggest police investigation in recent history all on the back of flimsy and made up accusations and if they are getting away with perjury in a court of law and lying under oath in front of a parliamentary committee with the COPFS not even raising an eyebrow, what is winning a seat? that is just a few extra postal votes added to the pile, isn’t it?

      The SNP still has 80% of Scotland’s seats in Westminster. The last thing the British state needs is somebody non compliant that leads those MPs to end the union. They know Sturgeon will not last, but they need her to last until at least May to pass the baton to the bobby price. In that way they ensure Scotland’s independence will not happen for the next five years.

      If “the unionists” in control of the UK did not want the SNP in power they would have kicked Sturgeon out of her seat back in January 2019 which is exactly when she should have been shown the door. That after the breath-taking level of corruption this woman has presided over both in government and the SNP, after clearly breaching the ministerial code she is still where she is and not one single person from the SGov, UK civil service or COPFS has resigned or been sacked over this tells you the British State has been behind this from day one and is keeping those people in post.

      That the MSM and broadcasters are so desperately propping her up and smearing Mr Salmond and seemingly what looks like either brigade 77 or bots flooding twitter to create the illusion of SNP popularity, tells you that your assertion is completely wrong and they are seriously concerned about tanking in May.

      All these movements in the background tell you that the unionists are bricking it at the prospect of Mr Salmond fronting another political party precisely at the point in time where the frustration in the yes movement for the lack of progress of the fraud is reaching boiling point. So much so that many yes supporters are just about ready to bypass the fraud and her eviscerated SNP to get independence through another route. Well, the British state is desperately trying to block that route.

      If the British state weren’t bricking it, they would not have exposed their assets in the SNP, UK gov and COPFS in the way they have. If they weren’t bricking it, they would not have exposed the parliamentary committee as a farce that was never tasked with actually bring a corrupt government under scrutiny, but rather to keep that corrupt government going and to stop Mr Salmond getting back into politics. This exposure was a last resource exercise and they are fighting like mad to make it a success because beyond that there is no much left without using brute force, which will always backfire.

      Once you openly show the Scottish people that our government, our parliament, our COPFS, our legal system, our civil service, our pro independence party are all a sham and colluding as part of the same entity to frustrate their will and to stop Scotland’s independence, then wait for the support for independence and change to shoot up through the roof and well beyond the point it can be brought under control with propaganda, psyops and plants in the right places.

      I have no doubt the puppet will win the seat and the SNP will win in May, but not because a majority of people may vote for them, but because the British state wants them to win. What are the odds that they are going to promote as much as they can postal votes and not conduct exit polls? The British State problem now is that if there is too much discontent against the SNP, Sturgeon and the puppet, the electorate may not believe the result and start to feel their election has been robbed, hence the desperate attempt to make us believe the fraud and her SNP are popular because people keep registering in, instead of out in their droves. Smoke and mirrors.

      If we want independence we are going to have to completely ignore all that propaganda, bypass the fraud Sturgeon, show the middle finger to the puppet and their eviscerated SNP.

      No plebiscite? No vote.
      The British state SNP and their plants can fck right off and Nicola Sturgeon can stick her carrot manifesto where the sun does not shine.

    260. Claire says:

      Following on to Baxter .. Gordon Dangerfield and Craig Murray have extensive info on timelines.
      Alex Salmond submission has his key dates .. they tally entirely with the latest released information.. what has not been released is the full memory stick of WhatsApp messages AS has .. the dates of these messages and the Police Scotland investigation are significant !

      The GA story is that a story .. look at NS submission , look at the transcript , replay the recorded committee hearing .. then you will realise there are 4 different versions she has offered ..

      My take is she knew from the beginning ! Complaints were being discussed well in advance of the development of this procedure at pace ! One of these complaints was out of a difference of opinion on an election .. it was not acted upon .. let’s say it was sat on .. Peter Murrell is heavily involved ..

    261. Johnny Martin says:

      ScotsRenewables:

      What? We should vote how Alex tells us to vote?

      I have a mind of my own, thanks.

    262. Andy Ellis says:

      @Big Jock

      Isn’t the issue that there is no evidence of any appetite within the SNP for change? Many of us who have left the party, or those who were never members but feel they can no longer support it, are looking for any signs that the rank and file membership will suddenly rise up and effect the change you allude to in your post. They certainly haven’t done so over the past 6 years. Even the supposed victory last November in the clear out of the NEC has proven to be illusory.

      We’re running out of time. If it’s really true that we have to wait for big hitters to make their minds up whether they will leave the party because it’s beyond salvation, then it’ll be too late to do anything at the elections in May. We’ll be stuck with the Sturgeonistas for at least another 5 years, even if she herself has to step down for lying to Parliament. All the usual suspects will still be there, entrenched and going nowhere. If you think the membership is about to stage a coup, you have more faith in them than I do given their inactivity thus far.

    263. John Martini says:

      Looks like their is no plan B and the independence movement is as shambolic as the snp. It’s the 21st century not the scottish enlightenment.

    264. Big Jock says:

      Bill – It’s largely irrelevant what we don’t know about Alex Salmond. It’s supposition and guesswork.

      What we do know is that a jury of 2/3 female members. Found him not guilty of any criminality. Assertions can be cast on anyone ,but facts are really what matters in this instance.

      Sturgeon goes down a dangerous path when she tries to demonise someone without written or corroborated evidence that contradicts the criminal case.

      Inappropriate behaviour can apply to every human being in existence.

    265. Craig P says:

      I’m inclined to give it some slack because it’s a draft. The final version will hopefully be better.

      Though I recall similarly barely-literate stuff coming from the best minds in Labour, and the disappointment of the independence White Paper after the excitement of hearing William McIlvanney was going to be involved in it. Any stirring qualities the White Paper may have had had thoroughly disappeared from the final document.

      Perhaps the SNP should hire someone who can write, say Alan Bissett, for key messages.

    266. Big Jock says:

      Andy -Yes at the moment there is no appetite for change.

      However it reminds me of the scene in the Wizard Of Oz , when Dorothy inadvertently melts the witch with water. She apologises to her minions expecting they will kill her. Instead they smile and raise her up as a hero.

      Ok a frivolous analogy, but my point being. Sometimes an autocratic leader only has obedience through fear.

    267. Big Jock says:

      Craig – Maybe they could get the brothers Grimm to write their manifesto, or maybe they did.

    268. John Martini says:

      When Stormont hit a log jam Westminster imposed temporary direct rule. What is to stop them doing the same with Holyrood ? The seriousness of the Scottish issue is far greater than events in N.I.

      It is obvious to me that Sturgeon is relying on a good result for the SNP in the May elections to over-write the investigation result, and will be proclaiming “the people think I’m innocent, next please”

    269. Big Jock says:

      John – How can we possibly suffer another 5 years of the Murrell’s. I might just give up unless there is a decent list party MSP group to support.

      I would like to be part of a party. I left the SNP 3 weeks ago after 32 years. Can’t join the Greens , and the wee parties are not right for joining until I see if they can achieve something.

    270. Kingu says:

      Same old words which mean nowt. They should produce a picture of a carrot as that’s all this is. I’m not voting SNP ever again. GRA, Hate Crime Bill and this devious behaviour mean I’m out. No more giving money to Murrell to spend and lie about totally out. Thank you Stu for helping me make up my mind. I will wait on another party to form and take us to Indy. The SNP need a shock in May.

    271. Mac says:

      I am huge admirer of Alex Salmond especially after seeing how he conducted himself during this horrific ordeal (inflicted on him by people not fit to lace his political boots and who feared his return).

      I have one criticism of him (and it is the same one I had in 2014) and it is that he is too nice.

      I’m not. Thankfully, and I mean this in a complimentary sense, neither is Stuart Campbell who single-handedly nailed a pair of balls onto the 2014 YES campaign whether they liked it or not. (he should never had had to do that, where were the SNP?)

      So I am hoping the AS we see next is a lot more of a ruthless cunt (to be frank about it).

      Salmond took the high road in his recent testimony. Did not attack NS personally and did not try to smear anyone. He tried to do the noble thing at all times.

      What was the response.

      A few days later Sturgeon swam through a river a shit to fling at Salmond for 8 hours solid.

      No more Mr Nice guy, please.

    272. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Alf Baird @ 9.45am

      You wrote:

      “A List majority vote for an independence party(s) is effectively a democratic national majority vote in favour of independence. Unless you believe that is somehow meaningless.”

      In terms of the Scotland Act, that notional List majority vote is (largely) meaningless.

      With that vote, the SNP-led Scottish Government would ahve a case for asking Westminster for another Independence Referendum.

      Where, between a dog’s chance and no chance, is the likelihood of that coming to pass? With an 80-seat majority at Westminster, and knowing, as they do, that England is buggered if they lose access to Scotland’s wealth, there is no way the Tories will agree to that Section 30 order.

      Where then is the SNP’s Plan B?

      As things stand, Scotland’s best chance of becoming Independent is via a collapse in the Tory vote at the next Westminster General Election, followed by a hung Parliament, with Labour, as the largest party, needing SNP support to be able to govern.

      We then need the SNP to make an early Independence Referendum the key to that support; and for Labour to agree to this.

      Timing and seat numbers then come into play.

      Next UK General Election – late 2024.

      (Assuming Labour wins but needs SNP support) – time to agree the Section 30 order and set-up the referendum – takes us into late 2025.

      If we assume Yes wins that referendum, and everything goes smoothly, we then enter a minimum two year period during which the severance agreement between Scotland and the rest of the UK is negotiated and implemented.

      This takes us to late 2026 or early 2027.

      If, as could happen once the anti-Sturgeon, anti-SNP media blitz starts in late March, early April, 2021, SNP support at Holyrood drops somewhat, we still have a minority SNP Governemnt up here – then the timeline could slip by up to five years.

    273. Effigy says:

      At this stage, after the latest release of documents,
      Can anyone confirm that there are still documents
      that are missing, although they do not identify the complainers
      in any way?

      I fully anticipate cover up and hinder action number 64 today
      from our open and transparent government.

    274. Bob Mack says:

      @Baxter,

      For clarity. The phone call to Aberdein was made on 7th March to arrange an appointment at Holyrood ‘re the allegations This was for 29th March.

      It is no coincidence Alex received the official complaint letter also on 7th March.

      Liz Lloyd Nicola’s PA made the call to Aberdein and knew of these complaints. She actually mentioned one to Aberdein according to his testimony.

      ,,,,,,but Nicola didn’t know any of this apparently.

    275. I Wright says:

      With this manifesto the Scottish National Party explicitly seeks the authority of the People of Scotland to enact laws that protect the powers of the Parliament at Holyrood from further erosion, that enshrine in law the principle that Westminster may not pass laws that alter devolved law in Scotland without the consent of the Parliament at Holyrood or the consent of the Scottish People expressed in a clear referendum on the matter, and may call referendums on expanding the devolved powers of the Scottish Parliament at any time, referendums that will carry the full force of the Sovereignty of the Scottish People.‘

      This is explosive. It would essentially insist on the sovereignty of Holyrood to pass laws as it sees fit on behalf of the Scottish people in direct defiance of Westminster’s claimed sovereignty.

    276. Bob Mack says:

      @Big Jock,

      Something is coming down the track. I’ve heard, but not the rumour on social media.

    277. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Mac @ 10.23am

      Great post that man – well said.

      Playing nice with the English Establishment has never worked. When it comes to playing nasty, they are the experts.

      Remember the advice of Sean Connery’s greatest character, Chicago cop Jim Malone: You don’t take a knife to a gun fight.

    278. ScotsRenewables says:

      Kingu (who he) et al:

      “I will never ever vote SNP again”

      Ludicrous.

      What if AS comes back into the fold as leader? What if Joanna becomes FM and toasts the wokies?

      No-one knows the shape the SNP will be in on 3 weeks, let alone 3 months or 3 years.

      Your ‘never, ever’ statement and the fact that I have never seen you on here before screams YOON to me. Most of our heads here BTL don’t zip up the back, so awa an’ bile yer ain.

    279. Robert Graham says:

      Damage limitation

      I can see posts all over this site of what I suspect is coming from Team Sturgeon their fingerprints are all over them, posts from people I wouldn’t recognise from Adam appearing with weird and wonderful masking names not real names any old tosh that comes to mind and that raises questions from the outset .

      This is directed at those people well who can tell now if they are actually real people behind the masks , all this mess and it is a total fk up leads directly to the front door of Bute House so please don’t try and spread out the blame by inferring the people who contribute to discussion on this site are single handily assisting Unionists,

    280. Alf Baird says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 10:24

      “In terms of the Scotland Act, that notional List majority vote is (largely) meaningless.”

      The Rev seems to think a national vote in favour of independence in the constituencies is not meaningless. I merely make the point that the List vote may be used for the same purpose, i.e. to invite and seek and deliver a majority national vote in favour of independence.

      In either event, it is surely the UK’s Scotland Act that would be rendered meaningless.

    281. Breastplate says:

      “ Should that request not be fulfilled by the date of the election in May and should a majority of MSP’s committed to holding such a referendum be elected to Holyrood in that election the Scottish National Party will immediately move to pass legislation in Holyrood to hold such a referendum as soon as it is safe to do so.”

      Sounds urgent, but as some have already remarked, why can’t that legislation be passed now, before the election?
      Why are we waiting?
      We are already in a position to pass the legislation, so why not now?

      Is it because if the legislation was passed before the election there would be enormous pressure to use the election as a plebiscite?

    282. Claire says:

      Response for Bill

      I enjoyed your post .. Police Scotland interviewed 400 plus as part of their investigation . Let us just think about whether that is normal or indeed proportionate in comparison to say for example 3 previous high profile sexual allegation cases .. Let us consider also at that point that 11 of the allegations were not even considered acts of criminal sexual misconduct ! They did not have any further evidence outside of the Scottish Govt Employee / Ex Employee . Let us consider the intervention by Peter Murrell CEO of the SNP he is not an elected Govt . Official .

      Look at the alleged crimes that AS was charged with .. Look at the Defence .. Look at the Jury ..Look at the defence witness testimony ! It is astonishing …in terms of the distinctive feature of Scots Law the requirement for corroboration of evidence underpins it .. so now let now let’s look at the “ Moorov” doctrine .. one of the most complex aspect of this law .

      NS had strong links and funded Rape Crisis Scotland , she is also legally qualified .. NS assisted or orchestrated these actions against AS .. she feared his popularity and he was not hated by women as is being suggested . A significant abuse of power is still ongoing .. Far from championing women’s rights , NS is in fact eroding them. NS creates hate and division , silences debate and has had an agenda .. I consider that AS does indeed have all the evidence .. and I believe he is and always was an innocent man. The women were used .. they were certainly encouraged .. one complainer insisting she meet NS personally .. there is certainly more to come .. her committee evidence was shocking .. ugly and a choreographed smear campaign .. This is not the conduct of somebody telling the truth ..

    283. Breastplate says:

      Meant to add we don’t need to wait for a yes or no to do this but the legislation itself would add pressure Westminster into agreement

    284. Ruby says:

      Big Jock says:

      Inappropriate behaviour can apply to every human being in existence.

      Reply
      Good point.
      Who decides what is ‘inappropriate behaviour’

      If you make rules for your own organisation you need to have them clearly written down. A good example of this would be the ‘The Ten Commandments”

      The SNP & the Civil Service are free to write their ‘Ten Commandments’ or however many commandments they want but they have to make them very clear.

      Commandment number one I would suggest would need to be a no fraternisation policy.

      A no fraternisation policy would mean historical cases of
      fraternisation could be investigated.

      Would Murrell & Sturgeon agree to this?

    285. David Caledonia says:

      There will not be another 5 years of the Wurzels they two will be lucky if they don’t both end up in prison by the time all this is over with

    286. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Alf Baird

      As a clear sign of the wishes of the people of Scotland, a List majority for pro-independence parties is not meaningless.

      Similarly an overall pro-independence vote in May will not be meaningless.

      However, even with that show of support – the Section 30 order remains within the gift of the UK Government, and, they have made it clear – it isn’t going to happen.

      We need a Plan B, some way to outflank them.

      I fear, if we don’t soon find that means – they will either shift the goalpost to make it impossible for us to get the referendum, or, if it comes to it, find some spurious means to shut down Holyrood.

      They know, England is buggered without us – they will use every dirty trick in the book to hold onto us.

    287. Effigy says:

      Watched a very good movie last night about the fight for
      Independence in Botswana.

      Although cleaned up a little it show the self righteous bastards
      in Westminster in their true corrupt, biased, racist, money grabbing best.

      They act with the arrogance of being some supreme race entitled to control
      any and all countries and its people.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m0003mrb/a-united-kingdom?partner=com.google&campaign=catalogue&medium=referral

    288. GlenIslay says:

      The biggest issue I see with things vis-a-vis what Sturgeon is doing is that she is dismissing the courts as having gotten it wrong.

      She has every right to personally feel that way as does anyone else, BUT as first minister her actions are contemptable. She does not get the right to air her personal feelz about the decisions of the judiciary for the very same reasons she condemned Johnson whenever he or his cabinet cast doubts on the English judiciary and their decisions.

    289. David Caledonia says:

      Dim urrels, they have a combined IQ of a monkey climbing up a tree in the hope of finding the big boy that ran away.
      If they ever go looking for the one armed man, I know a guy that could help them find him, ofc he never found the one armed man either, his name is Richard Kimberlay aka, The Fugitive lol

    290. Ian Spruce says:

      @effigy – 10.25

      There was a report/e-mail at end of October from Roddy Dunlop saying he was meeting LA in a couple of days time.

      The evidence to the committee heard that they were having meetings regularly throughout November 2018 but no documents have been disclosed about these?

      Am sure there is even more than that

    291. Don says:

      @ScotsRenewables 5 March, 2021 at 10:32 am

      “Ludicrous. What if AS comes back into the fold as leader? What if Joanna becomes FM and toasts the wokies?

      No-one knows the shape the SNP will be in on 3 weeks, let alone 3 months or 3 years.”

      Sturgeon and others probably can’t tell you what the SNP will be look like in 3 days at the moment nevermind 3 weeks. There lies the problem. Can’t see Salmond coming back he is too old and rightly or not mud sticks.

    292. Ian Spruce says:

      GlenIslay says:
      5 March, 2021 at 10:49 am
      “The biggest issue I see with things vis-a-vis what Sturgeon is doing is that she is dismissing the courts as having gotten it wrong.”

      That is a breach of the ministerial code according to what i have read here and elsewhere

    293. Bill Mackay says:

      Ruby..did you read it if you did that’s all that’s important,if you disagree with that’s also fine,the important of where it comes from is irrelevant.

    294. ScotsRenewables says:

      Don,

      My point precisely. The SNP is compromised and damaged, but so have other parties been in the past, in the UK and elsewhere.

      The ‘never voting for them again’ rhetoric is childish. Wait and see and decide nearer the date. If then your conscience won’t permit an SNP vote fine, spoil your ballot.

    295. Big Jock says:

      Glenislay – Good point. Sturgeon is criticising the courts of Scotland , because she is personally involved in a case. When in fact she is supposed to be the First Minister of Scotland and therefore impartial. It’s disrespectful , arrogant and inappropriate for a head of state.

    296. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “But do you have a reason for limiting the 50% majority to the SNP, rather than including other parties of independence in it?”

      The SNP can’t write other parties’ manifestos for them.

    297. Alf Baird says:

      Socrates MacSporran @ 10:44

      “the Section 30 order remains within the gift of the UK Government”

      A majority national vote in favour of independence in a national plebiscite means just that, independence.

      A Section 30 order is then irrelevant, as is the UK Scotland Act.

    298. Ruby says:

      Bill Mackay says:
      5 March, 2021 at 10:56 am
      Ruby..did you read it if you did that’s all that’s important,if you disagree with that’s also fine,the important of where it comes from is irrelevant.

      Reply
      No I didn’t read it. Sorry.
      I’m being selective as I am very short of time. Got a stack of chores to catch up on.
      I’ve still to wash my dinner dishes from Wednesday night got hooked into the discussions on Wings.

    299. GlenIslay says:

      @Ian Spruce

      It is. The sturgeonistas counter it with “b-b-but so did Boris!!11” as if a whataboutism somehow makes it fine, but they miss the point because they all rightfully condemn the Tories when they breach ministerial code, but break into applause when Saint Nic’ does it.

    300. Clavie Cheil says:

      My apologies to Dave Thompson if he reads this site. I kept calling him Doug in some of my previous posts.

      In relation to my vote. I wont be voting SNP at any election as long as Nicola Sturgeon continues to be SNP leader. She has shown herself to be unfit to be FM of Scotland – end of story. We haven’t a scooby of winning a referendum with her or any of her sycophants as leader of the SNP.

    301. WGW says:

      Re Big Jock and Nicola Sturgeom, so far NS is only “head of government”. Please don’t feed her ego-ambitions further as “head of state”! At present, that’s the Queen.

    302. Tony O'Neill says:

      The snp branches need to act against the corrupt party leadership who have been ignoring them and treating them like shite for years now. They need to mutiny and refuse to campaign for the party in the upcoming election.

    303. Stuart Campbell says:

      Stu

      I feel I have to apologise on behalf of all the dumbass sturgeonisas. I post regularly on FB Indy pages to try to get them to think logically about what has happened to the hollowing out of the snp and I post links from Wings to back it up as well links from Jeggit, Iain Lawson and Craig Murray. All they do is post abuse and almost all of them think I am you, even though my profile picture is right in front of them. I have explained that I am not actually the real Stuart Campbell but they do not believe me…. I am afraid their condition may be terminal.

    304. Peter Kinnaird says:

      It’s worth noting, as we approach the next election, that our total regional vote in the SNP was 953,587, for which we won 4 seats. Three of these were in South Scotland, one in the Highlands.
      Success in the constituencies nearly obliterated the list msp vote. In South Scotland, where the Tories won four of the constituencies, we took a beating, and the list gave us those three seats I mentioned above.
      The Greens with 150426 votes, got 6 seats.
      So, unless I’m totally screwing this up, the SNP should be focussing on SNP 1 and 2 in South Scotland, where at least we’ll get some list seats. For the rest of Scotland, it looks like voting SNP for the regional list will be a waste of time. If, and I stress this, IF there is a credible alternative independence party outwith south Scotland, and IF you are as attracted to independence as you are to the SNP, your constituency vote should go SNP, and your regional vote to that other independence party.

    305. Ebok says:

      From the header
      ‘The form that government takes has changed many times in the intervening 700 years, but the principle remains the same’

      In 1320, the ‘People of Scotland’ were not the lower classes – vassals, peasants, and those even farther down the pecking order of humanity: the ‘People’ description was reserved for our rulers, wealthy landowners, nobles, descendants of the Normans.
      So, yes, I agree with the quote. Nothing has changed. But surely that is what most of us are fighting?

      The oft repeated phrase, ‘The People of Scotland’, mentioned 8 times in the piece, does my head in. It’s an irreverent play on words implying that ‘we are all in this together’, another cliché used by arrogant, pompous politicians, such as we have today.
      Based on these irritating clichés, some time ago, I put together a collection of thoughts based on my limited knowledge of 14th (see below), 18th, and 21st century Scotland. My take, which may be entirely wrong, is somewhat different to Russell’s.

      But it appears to me that the lack of trust in SNP’s attempt to railroad the Independence movement is quite similar to Scottish nobles lack of trust in Bruce, as described in the ‘Declaration’. The difference is, of course, that Scotland had strong accountable leaders then, though whoever rules has never had any bearing on the lives of those way down the pecking order.

      ‘The People of Scotland’
      He shouted from Arbroath
      Forgave me for murder in the chapel
      Then fought by me in erstwhile battles
      Now they must forget the martyred one
      Who could not deal with devious scum
      He did not seem to understand
      That realpolitik is where battles are won
      But that option was never in his heart
      Too loyal and misguided from the start
      That era is now gone, and times have changed
      All inner resistance has since been tamed
      Now we must build on strengths we hold dear
      And recognise the primacy of those we revere
      To whom our country will long be indebted
      For their sacrifices which are truly regretted
      So, as a token of that which is owed
      Rich rewards have been bestowed
      On Earls and leaders of royal descent
      And seditious nobles who now repent
      With one voice, the royal court has agreed
      To terms and conditions as decreed
      To our Holy Father Pope John in Avignon
      We placed these in a scroll
      As written from our imperial hearts and soul

      We begged the Pontiff to endorse me as our de facto King
      And to bless the declaration from our nation we bring
      To command the English to cease invasion
      On our God-fearing peaceful nation
      And to rescind expulsions from the Roman flock
      As these have been a major stumbling block
      And as for God’s lowly creations
      Those tasked with protecting our nobles and nation
      Alas, the surviving peasants and vassals
      Who drove the English from our lands and castles
      And the sons and mothers of those who died
      Must return to their reverent lives
      And even as they mourn and cry
      They will yet collect for His Grace’s wealth
      E’er to grow and multiply
      And while servants and serfs toil by hand
      In this embryonic majestic land
      They will continue to live in despair
      As they bow before their sovereign and declare
      That we are all brothers in this land of heather
      And we are all in this together

    306. gus1940 says:

      What if an SNP member or members, as a protest, simply reduced the amount or cancelled their Direct Debit without actually going through the process of resigning their membership?

    307. It’s a bit dangerous to use final in a manifesto – it could make life difficult later on (for instance if a new Labour government at Westminster signals that a request for Section 30 order would be honoured).

    308. rob says:

      Breeks says:
      5 March, 2021 at 8:52 am

      Footsoldier says:
      5 March, 2021 at 8:30 am

      Diminishing the SNP vote now is exactly what the unionists want – do not play into their hands.

      My sentiments exactly, stop blaming the True independence supporter for what really is the fault of all those Nicky Happy Clappers out there. This delusional following of hers could end this tomorrow by telling her and her cabal to go and let the decent people run the party.

    309. Tony O'Neill says:

      I have to aggree with wholeheartedly with mac.If Alex salmond does return to the fight he needs to lose the nice guy image.700 years ago,our heroes/leaders had to be ruthless and gave no quarter to this nations enemies even to some who were born here.700 years later it’s still the same enemies,Nicola and her cult would have handed over the Wallace just as readily as menteith.What aim getting at is like back then we might have to defeat our own enemies here first before we can have history repeat itself here again.

    310. Big Jock says:

      Someone made a point about the draft manifesto stating that the SG will not allow laws to be enacted for Scotland against it’s will.

      This sounds very grand and serious. However does everyone remember the Continuity Bill? What happened was that the Tories put a bill through to change the law, to change Holyrood’s powers. Meantime the case went to the Supreme Court, and by the time the dispute was heard, the power had been removed from Holyrood. Essentially making the Continuity Bill redundant.

      Well this is exactly what will happen again. If you operate within the confines of devolution , then WM has the power to remove Holyrood’s powers. Indeed they will already be planning for that.

      The other thing about having a referendum if the Section 30 is refused. Is Council co-operation. The SNP don’t control all the councils in Scotland. The Tories and Labour will vote against granting permission to hold a referendum.

      Right now the Tories are spiking the Tory led councils by direct funding them. It’s basically a bribe. You scratch my nose and I will scratch yours.

      The SNP strategy is bound to failure I am afraid.

      I used to be a good amateur runner. There was an older guy in the club that no-one could beat. We used to form a group and work our socks off to catch him. We would pull alongside him. He would look over with a rye smile and say:” So you’ve caught me, but what are you going to do now”. We all looked blankly as he disappeared into the distance. This sums up the SNP. They can win 10 mandates over and over again, but the Tories are just taunting them , because they know the SNP have nothing in their locker.

    311. Mia says:

      “What if AS comes back into the fold as leader? What if Joanna becomes FM and toasts the wokies?”

      When?

      Did you look at the calendar? We have two months until the election. The British state is not going to allow neither Mr Salmond nor Ms Cherry to take control of the SNP machine for as long as the SNP holds 80% of Scotland’s seats in Westminster.

      There is a higher chance of success if Ms Cherry, Mr Mcaskill, Angus McNeil, Chris Eleny and Mr Salmond and a few others leave the carcass of the SNP to sink and take another boat. You do not need that new to be made to last. You just need it to make one voyage: out of this union.

      We should refuse to play the British State’s game of fake democracy. No plebiscite? No vote.

    312. Aunty Flo says:

      May we enquire as to how much, if any, of our ‘ring-fenced’ money was woven into the production of this amateurish and embarrassing document?

    313. Kiwilassie says:

      Bill Mackay says:
      5 March, 2021 at 9:57 am
      I know ..but it’s worth a read …
      Friday, 5 March 2021
      Did Sturgeon want a sexual predator to lead an independent Scotland?

      Bravo Bill. I agree with all you’ve said. What has gone down is an evil attempt to get one man out of public life.

      My question is. Why was the the new work policy to include past ministers only effective from the year the SNP were in Government & not from the date the Scottish parliament opened?

      Another thing I see, being a woman. When did it become a sexual assault when a man flicked/touched you hair because he was complimenting you on your curls?
      When did it become a sexual assault when a man commented on your heels because they set of the alarm when going through airport security?
      When did it become a sexual assault when someone kissed you on the cheek? She says he tried to kiss her on the mouth.
      TRIED meaning he never did.
      When did it become an assault when a man touched you below the waist accidently over your clothes, if it did in fact happen?
      These supposedly assaults are to me actually quite pathetic.

      Okay! In all these accusations Alex is protecting two of these women & got an injunction to keep their names anonymous. The Scots Government weren’t even in court for the JR case. The scots government had basically put them out to dry.

      Keeping accusers names from getting into the public isn’t the actions of a guilty man. Yes these three adults may have overstepped working boundaries & the situation had been resolve. The two women had the choice of working in other government departments, they decided to stay where they were.
      A woman will only stay & work with a person they feel comfortable/safe with, when given an alternative.

      Given the police spoke with 400 other women that had contact with him, None of these women had a negative thing to say about Alex. Given the names of these women were given to the police from the SG & Lesley Evans department, I would say this was a witch hunt to bring Alex down. Thank Christ It didn’t succeed.

      Time for a proper judge led investigation into all of this. The behaviour here of the Scots government & the extra accusers who appeared for the criminal trial, should be questioned under oath in a court of law.
      Keep in mind other than the two original accusers who Alex has protected with name suppression, were all close to Nicola & her cabal.

    314. Kelly says:

      I was raised a Jehovahs Witness.
      We were told the world would end any day now, just keep door knocking. Just keep praying. Any day now. Any day now. Just around the corner.

      I already escaped one cult peddling this ‘right around the corner’ bollocks, I dont need taken for a fool by another.

    315. avocado devil says:

      Bill Mackay says:
      5 March, 2021 at 9:57 am
      I know ..but it’s worth a read …
      Friday, 5 March 2021
      “Did Sturgeon want a sexual predator to lead an independent Scotland?”

      i read this and then found the source, word for word identical.

      https://www.effiedeans.com/2021/03/did-sturgeon-want-sexual-predator-to.html

      spoiler alert: she’s a self confessed tory and yoon, most of it’s a bit limp at the moment, and she’s cribbing from others, but this one has a point i think.

      Me, i read all kinds of echo chambers, i don’t think that reflect on my views.

    316. Kiwilassie says:

      & Mac
      I have one criticism of him (and it is the same one I had in 2014) and it is that he is too nice.

      Mac Alex is who he is. He is genuinely a nice guy. He’s a bit long in the tooth to change. He may be tougher on folk if he comes back into politics, but he will always be the gentleman.

      What I have to laugh at here. As a young man he was good looking,
      yet there is no scandal about him. Why? Because he was faithful to Moira!

      Now look at the person Nicola wants to succeed her, if he gets elected. Angus Robertson Had an affair with his now wife while still married to his first.
      Yet Angus Robertson is part of this stitch up of Alex. He’s a bloody hypocrite.
      Just make sure he doesn’t get elected in Edinburgh. Spill the shite about him on unionist sites. Cut the legs from under him.
      The last thing you want is him as FM.

    317. Kiwilassie says:

      Liz Lloyd Nicola’s PA made the call to Aberdein and knew of these complaints. She actually mentioned one to Aberdein according to his testimony.

      ,,,,,,but Nicola didn’t know any of this apparently.
      ______________

      You all know who LL was married to, don’t you?
      Ed Milliband married in 2002

    318. Mac says:

      Yeah but that was a different Liz Lloyd.

    319. Stuart Campbell says:

      Is it too late to set up a Wings Over Scotland Party and campaign on a Plebecite with your Manifesto above?

    320. Gary Dollard says:

      “Since that date many new powers have come to Holyrood but the Tory government in Westminster, that has no Scottish mandate, has repeatedly chipped away at the powers of Holyrood”

      Anyone else find that a contradiction in terms?

    321. Kcor says:

      Michael Laing says,

      “I don’t think any of us can make a firm decision on how to proceed until we know whether or not the SNP is salvageable.”

      IMHO the SNP is now unsalvageable.

      Apart from McAskill, Cherry and a few others, would we be able to trust the vast majority of MPs and MSPs who have either supported the current criminal leadership or have remained silent and then will suddenly change position?

      Like New Labour, New SNP cannot be salvaged.

      It will be sad, but a brand new party with credible leadership and membership is required, before it is too late.

    322. Kcor says:

      Effigy says,

      “If I see yet another piece of Tory or Westminster deceit or lies,
      I like to make all readers here aware of it, all be it not central to
      the current discussion.”

      Have you not noticed that the corruption and criminality within the SNP, Scottish government, Scottish parliament, Lord Advocate, Police investigations into Alex Salmond and his supporters, being exposed by the Rev. Stuart Campbell, is of much more on topic and of interest to independence supporters visiting Wings Over Scotland?

      Readers here are fully aware of Tory or Westminster deceit or lies. There is nothing new about them.

      What they like to read here is the extent of SNP and Scottish government deceit and lies being exposed.

      Of course it is not my blog, but it seemed strange to me that whenever a very serious matter is being discussed, you post your completely O/T comments, as if to distract readers from the topic being discussed.

    323. I will be brief! Glancing over these comments I could be mistaken,reading all the attacks on the Scottish Government,for thinking these are messages incognito from the heart of Bath meeting the approval of our masters. NOTHING WRONG WITH WESTMINSTER GOVERNMENT??? Ia am with Alec and Nicola,there are some in the Civil service need to answer questions including LESLIE EVANS.

    324. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Robert Galloway.

      See Kcor’s comment above.

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-last-and-final-request/comment-page-1/#comment-2625714

    325. TNS2019 says:

      Kcor says:
      5 March, 2021 at 6:14 pm

      Michael Laing says,

      “I don’t think any of us can make a firm decision on how to proceed until we know whether or not the SNP is salvageable.”

      IMHO the SNP is now unsalvageable.

      IMHO you are correct, Kcor.
      The integrity of the independence movement has been lost.
      We are now seen as being corrupt.
      Independence = corruption.

      It was never meant to be this way and it only started when AS left the party.

    326. GlenIslay says:

      @Robert Galloway

      Whataboutism. Everyone and their wee auntie knows about the crap the tories pull in Westminister.

      You cannot in good faith, however, criticize the shenanigans of Westminster and then in the same breath, cheer on what Sturgeon and the Scottish Government did. Every time she opens her mouth on this, she brings the Scottish judiciary into disrepute. How is that any different from what Johnson and co do in Westminister? Do we accept it because she is supposed to be “one of our own? That’s tribalism.

    327. Effigy says:

      Hi Kcor,

      Agreed there is corruption within the SNP camp
      and I want that stamped out too.

      If I have a choice of a corrupt independent Scottish Government
      and one from the Masters of corruption in Westminster, I’ll take Scottish.

      I’m covering nothing SNP do. I cancelled my membership after spending
      a great deal of money on them, dropping leaflets and knocking doors.

      I can’t give them time nor money due to the mess they are in but I will vote for
      them as every other option shows supports for Unionists.

      Yes the Rev can warn me or block me if he has any concerns about my activity
      and I’m happy to let him adjudicate.

      I will post anything that I find legitimately exposes the Westminster Government
      and proves independence to be the far better option.

      The Police backup for the F**k Lockdown brigade at Ibrox was disgraceful.
      We have an AUOB organiser going to prison for mistiming a mass gathering by
      a few hours while there was no lockdown, no incendiary devices, no sectarian singing
      and no fear of spreading a killer virus.

      No need now to have Council and police meetings for the next AUOB March,
      No stewards required and no set days or times.
      We just need to wear Rangers scarfs or Orange sashes and we will be accommodated just like yesterday.

      Thank you for paying attention to my posts.

      Have a good day!

    328. Effigy says:

      Marr Show Discussing Harry and Meghan with their Scottish corespondent

      Tharah Thmith Thaid
      Americanth Thide With The Ducheth of Thuthex.

      Anybody got a mop.

      She goes on to relish polls that show a drop in independence support.
      I think unbelievably she just said that a predicted majority of 1 for SNP
      in Holyrood May not be enough to justify another referendum?

      Do majority votes in Holyrood no longer count?

      Another benefit of independence will remove these people from our screens.

    329. SimonC says:

      I’m nervous about an election manifesto that just simply declared independence upon election. People vote not just for indy, but for welfare and tax for example. It’s a bad move which will more than likely trigger WM a response which is unconstitutional or something. Screams Catalonia all over. Scotland just needs at this point the referendum to settle the dust and finally find the answer to the Scottish will, and be respected regardless the outcome.



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