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Wings Over Scotland

The evolution of tone

Posted on June 15, 2014 by

WEDNESDAY: Panini “politics sticker album” jokes are evidence of vile abuse:


SUNDAY: Panini “politics sticker album” jokes are light-hearted comedy material:

The BBC: you have to pay for this or you go to jail, readers.

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  1. 15 06 14 15:05

    The evolution of tone | Scottish Independence News

179 to “The evolution of tone”

  1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Cleggie to be the next European Commissioner?

  2. The MP for Edinburgh South will be raced off to the Royal after seeing all those deadly stickers littering his beloved London.

    When he gets out he might have a go at repainting the eyesore of a front door to his office, which he’s still done nothing about.

  3. bookie from hell says:

    I have the panini devolution album

    totaly blank with 40% of pages missing

  4. Andy smith says:

    I have the pannini devo-max album…you get to lick the stickers yourself.

  5. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Completely irrelevant to my country.
    TV license fee now goes to Derek Bateman.

    Vote Yes and be rid of Westminster for ever !

  6. Jamie Arriere says:

    Look who makes an appearance on the ball at 2.49? Who knew HE was in the Shadow Cabinet?

  7. Murray McCallum says:

    Astonishing open vandalism by the Blustering Broadcasting Cyberbrits.

    It’s the shock and awe of sticker warfare.

  8. joe kane says:

    Ban this sick Panini filth!
    Surely modern science has managed to find a cure for the terrible affliction known as “Andrew Neil” by now? It’s like we’re still living in the Dark Ages.

  9. galamcennalath says:

    Evidence, as if it were needed, that they inhabit a different planet from us !

  10. Michael McCabe says:

    Panini Politics Stickers. Like the Politicians That appeared on them. I know where I would like to stick them.

  11. Alfresco Dent says:

    This is it in a nutshell.

  12. MD says:

    Do what we say, not what we do.

  13. gordoz says:

    Hey: There must be on for Colin MaCkay (Radio Clyde/Forth politics editor).

    He is the last journo saying no shift in the Polls clear 60 / 40 to NO from the start. Now that must be rare

  14. Lesley-Anne says:

    When I saw the word Panini I thought you were going to be talking about these rolls Stu. I’ve never heard of these Panini sticker thingys. Are they edible by any chance? 😛

  15. Paula Rose says:

    I think these stickers are something to do with men chasing balls.

  16. Clootie says:

    We don’t all do the football thing!
    I have a life.

    Wait for it!!!

  17. handclapping says:

    “The evolution of tone”

    And there was me thinking this was to be a piece about how Bliar now was against sending our young men and women to die in Syria and Iraq to “right” the fuckup of his first attempt.

    Remember too that that was a Government forced on us by the overwhelming majority of the voters in rUK

  18. Simon Chadwick says:

    You don’t need to go to jail or pay the fee. Just stop watching the goggle-box. Reading Wings, Bella & Newsnet takes up enough of the day there is no time for TV.

  19. The Man in the Jar says:

    Just a quick off topic to mention that there is a hustings meeting at Park Church Uddingston tomorrow night at 7:30pm

    The meeting will be in the church and the chair is the minister. Hopefully good behaviour will prevail 🙂

    The speakers are Murdo Fraser MSP (Con) and John Mason MSP (SNP)

    More details here!

  20. Thepnr says:

    Have you ever been bit? I have and although it was sore at the time I soon got over it.

    What has this to do with the referendum?

    I think the establishment is biting away, there is no pain though, only more determination to win this.

    Bite me and I might bite back.

  21. AndyB says:

    It seems The Politics Show has stolen your idea, oh well I suppose we could create Panini, stickers of scaremongering stories, with pictures of lets say Dr Who, the pound or even one with border guard dogs.

  22. Geoff Huijer says:

    Don’t pay the TV licence and go to prison? Then you can watch TV, get fed three times a day, use the gym, wander about near naked coz it’s so warm…

    What’s not to like? Beats being on the dole.

    Except you don’t get a vote…doh!

  23. TJenny says:

    AndyB – and wee dugs and sausage rolls. 🙂

  24. Dan Huil says:

    Enough is enough. TV licence fee no more.

  25. goldenayr says:

    Have just decided what’s wrong with the troughers new name relaunch.

    It’s not “No Thanks” it’s “No Thinking”.

  26. goldenayr says:

    The Man in the Jar

    If you want a gentle ribbing tip?

    Just press Murdo on why he thought the Scottish Tories should break from Westminster control.

    Every time I see him he gets more embarrassed and less able to evade the obvious answer.

    Just a bit of lighthearted fun I like to have with him.

  27. Lesley-Anne says:

    As it is now early afternoon and everyone must be getting a wee bit tired thought I’d brighten up your day with a few choice picks from the internet. 😛

    When is a currency union NOT a currency union but in reality it really IS a currency union?

    Do you want to be in my gang?

    That humming sound you hear is the noise of the Secretary of State for Portsmouth spinning on the spot doing an excellent impersonation of a generator.

  28. Free Scotland says:

    I’d rather eat a panini filled with the pluckings from Flipper’s eyebrows and garnished with the slevvers of big Gogsy Broon than waste any more of my life listening to the pro-union guff we are subjected to by the mainstream media.

  29. JGedd says:

    By the way, Bay Rok, who was on the original Wings thread about Clare Lally, purporting to be a friend of Ms Lally, is over on Bella Caledonia still going on about it. He/She seems a very devoted friend.

  30. Nana Smith says:


    Having been unwell today, you have brought me good cheer. Thank you!

  31. Lesley-Anne says:

    Glad to be of service Nana. Hope you’re better soon. 😉

  32. AndyB says:

    @Lesley-Anne Good one remember when Ruth Davidson said, there’s a line in the sand I won’t cross, and I’m sure I read Lamont sent Sarwar on the battle bus around Scotland just to get him out of the way.

    @TJenny That’ s right we could fill a whole Panini album with the scaremongering stickers that BT and Westminster have dreamed up, one of my favourites is that we’d be open to alien attacks from outer space, what a great sticker that would make.

  33. TJenny says:

    Nana Smith – funnily enough, I was just discussing the post of ‘Remembrancer’ with my mum, yesterday, as another instance of how very, very undemocratic Westminster really is.

    Her’s the wiki link for the Remembrancer.

  34. Keith Hynd says:

    First one is priceless 🙂 followed the link to the webcast, and if I’ve ever seen a living example of the parable of building a house on sand then the no campaign day on day make that example.

  35. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think we all remember the *ahem* line in the sand moment from our favourite Tory leader in Scotland Andy. In fact I had a wee laugh with someone over on Twitter just the other night about her “line in the sand”. He said because it was drawn in the sand it could always be *ahem* re-drawn. That was until I pointed out that this could not happen if the sand was mixed with cement. I was then *ahem* accused of being a unionist, in a fun way not seriously, because I had changed the mix. 😛

    As far as Sarwar is concerned you are right he has been seen all over with the “NO THANKS” bus, without windows, even down here in Annan. What a sorry, sorry bunch they look. Still we all know why their bus’s windows are covered up don’t we? If the windows were not covered up they soon would be…with eggs. That is the ones that were not smashed by being hit with stones! 😛

  36. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok, on the original Wings thread about Clare Lally, is over on Bella Caledonia still going on about it.

    I answered him.

    Also touched upon the subject in:
    Dear J K Rowling: grousebeater.wordpress

  37. goldenayr says:

    Hi LA

    Got a link for you as well except it’s only funny in a sad way.

    Been busy emailing him and various other international commentators.Interesting to see if I get a reply.

    Heading off to the SoSP story on the beeb now,catch you later.

  38. Brotyboy says:

    I had a panino for lunch. If I have another one later, that will be two panini I’ll have had today.

  39. DaveDee says:

    O/T Excellent speech from Ivan McKee at the the recent Aye Talks even at Govan. He speaks about the economic case for Independence.


  40. Andy-B says:


    Apparently the windows on Sarwars battle bus are blackened out, because as they pose all over Scotland with their supporters of the union, you’ll notice its always the same faces in different clothes in the pictures you can see the pictures over on Munguin’s Republic roughly halfway down the page.

  41. frazer allan whyte says:

    The second video was so utterly vapid I can’ believe it was even made – manufactured non-news at its absolute worst. So this what you pay for in North Britain… and you have done this for years now… have you no self-respect at all?

  42. Neil Craig says:

    If you think SNP voters shouldn’t have to pay the Ministry of Truth Tax/BBC licence fee, imagine how big their postal order to UKIP voters should be.

  43. Nana Smith says:

    Thank you TJenny…..

  44. eezy says:

    Keep it Eezy people.
    I reckon we’re winning. How can we not? FACTS!
    Let’s take it from here….

  45. Jim Thomson says:

    O/T Missy Boop and I managed to get our wee bit of Troon leafleted today. Even managed to get into all the flats that are usually secure entry [result!]

    Hopefully that will help to swell the audience to our Troon Referendum Debate with 2 x Yes and 2 x No names on the bill. If you can manage along, it’s scheduled for Wednesday 25th June in the Troon Concert Hall, 7pm kick off, all welcome. And, did I mention FREE!?

  46. Colin Mccartney says:

    Pay the license fee? I think not. Do people not know how to get round this legalised extortion yet?

  47. Flower of Scotland says:

    O/t BBC, SKY, Aljazeera etc all showing, about every hour, Tony Blair saying we should send troops to Iraq! Can’t believe it! So send in more boys and girls to get killed ..for what?

    I’m also a bit paranoid about us doing so well. There’s no chance that they can cancel the Referendum because of a war footing? Is there?

  48. Thepnr says:

    I posted thie a few months ago, so many new readers won’t have seen it. I’m posting again just to annoy the Rev.

    Diary of a Cybernat Two Weeks Out
    Thur 4th Sep:
    Only two weeks now, I’m not sure what’s happening but there seem to be a lot of scared faces on BBC Scotland Tonight of late. This has been more and more noticeable in the last few days. Brian Taylor in particular seems to be withdrawing into himself. It’s been weeks now since he has given us a “toodle oo the noo”.

    Fri 5th Sep:
    Postie this morning brought me my final batch of 50 Proud Cybernat badges from Roddy, will get them to the troops over the weekend, bit of a collecters item the’ve become which is good cos I’ve kept a few for meself hehe.
    Scotsman finally shut its doors today, had been on the cards though I do feel sorry for the Cybernats that used to post there. The rest though…ah tough shit ye makes yer bed I say. Euan McColm has been raging on twitter about “they fucken Cybernats” Class.

    Sat 6th Sep:
    I really hate shopping and if I’m to be a man then one day, yeah one day I’ll tell her that. But hey let sleeping dogs lie I say. One good thing came of it, in the taxi on the way back, the driver a definate No started to buckle under the relentless arguments I was hitting him with. By the time he dropped me off he was reading an Aye Right leaflet and agreeing “maybe I had a point”. Result I think.

    Sun 7th Sep:
    My 79 year old Mother In Law!! what’s she like? Much tougher than that taxi driver for sure. Still hates Salmond, weasely is all she keeps saying. I keep telling her it’s not about Salmond, she just sticks her fingers in her ears and says la la la la la la. I won’t give in though.
    Went out tonight with the troops we were targeting Kirkton tonight, the 50 of us that turned up were given 3 streets each so could take our time and chat to the punters. Out of the dozen or so I talked with NONE would admit to supporting No and there was one who joined me and came to help stick leaflets through the door. Result!

    Mon 8th Sep:
    Hated going to work today, everybody talks about the referendum but I live it..There is a difference, there are still a few No’s there and I won’t waste my breath on them anymore.
    Best thing about today was watching Osborne squirm on Newsnight and demanding negotiations with Salmond on a currency Union prior to the Referendum. Salmond told him to shove it (sort of) me and the missus were pissing ourselves.

    Tue 9th Sep:
    Woke up this morning feeling great with Osbornes performance last night still fresh. In fact i have a vague memory of dreaming about him and a kind of quesy feeling about that. Maybe shouldn’t have had those cheese and crackers before going to bed.
    I hear Kirsty Wark has gone on the sick but so far this is just a rumour started by Derek Bateman. Other than that, nothing much happened.

    Wed 10th Sep:
    About time! The Rev has rallied the Wingers for the final push so tonight 10,000 of us will be distributing all kind of materials throughout Scotland, that’s only 250 houses per person and we hope to visit them all over the next 3 days. Seems plausible to me, thankfully all the plans have been in place for months and those that volunteered know their role. This is exciting.
    Mother in law is still giving it la la la. Just got to keep trying.

    Thu 11th Sep:
    Only a week to go!
    Breaking News on BBC Breakfast this morning, all three leading political parties have agreed a deal that in the event of a No vote Devo Max would be offered by the UK government, this would include full tax raising powers, control over airguns and something about welfare. Though the details will only be decided after the referendum.
    Jola at FMQ’s demanded to know why Alex Salmond wouldn’t accept a currency union as offered by Osborne when it was obviously in Scotland’s interest. He told her to shove it (sort of)

    Fri 12th Sep:
    Last day at work then a fortnights holiday. Looking forward to it, a weeks canvassing. Then a week long party, mibbee.
    Went to the Ferry tonight with the missus for a meal and a drink, we missed out the meal as the place was mobbed. I was pleased to see all the YES badges though noticed an argument or two was breaking out. It’s looking good though, the Union Jack on the ceiling of the pub had been taken down. Think they are worried about their custom.

    Sat 13th Sep:
    Bloody hell, I’m hungover but the missus insists on dragging me along again for “shopping”. There was a Big Issue seller outside the shopping centre, he was wearing a Yes baseball cap, a badge and a big smile. Shouting “Vote Yes and get rid of the Big Issue” “Vote Yes and get rid of the Big Issue”. I gave him a couple of quid and he told me “Get yer money oan Yes mister at 2/1 it’s a cert mister”
    So I did, went in the bookies, wasn’t 2/1 at all, 5/4 the wummin said. Fuck it, it’s a cert so put £50 on anyway. Taxi home, he wisnae a talker but I gave him an Aye Right business card anyway along with his tip. Said he’d look at it.

    Sun 14th Sep:
    Back to the mother in laws for our dinner again, she really should come to us as it’s me that cooks it anyway. I’ve tried asking before but you’ve never met such a stubborn women. We watched some old Black & white film in the afternoon. Psycho I think it was but I wasn’t paying attention since I was on the laptop reading Wings.
    Then dear mother really surprised me by asking “whit price are the bookies fur a Yes” “Ehh 5/4” I said. “Hmmph” she said. When I got home I sorted out all the leaflets and the wee blue book. Stuck them inside the 100 Yes papers I had in preparation for tomorrow. Then went to bed.

    Mon 15th Sep:
    Typical, pissing wi rain. Ignored it, put meh jaikit oan and headed oot the door. Met Ronnie at the bottom of the street, gold wings badge glistening, he’s so big heeded so he is. Anyway didn’t take too long to get rid of they 100 papers and by 2 O’ Clock we were in the clubby. A real working mens club is this, all Labour types but the irony is the majority now are going to vote Yes. This last 3 months work has been worth it. The big Yes poster behind the bar is a giveaway, there was a stushie when it first went up but nobody questions it now. I think I love the manageress Jackie Baillie. Aye a good lass.
    Tues 16th Sep:
    Well, nae sign oh Ronnie, I knew I should have dropped him aff yesterday rather than let him make his own way up the road. Och well at least the weather was better and the canvassing didn’t take long. I’d just about finished and was walking up my last street when a wee ginger dug came out of nowhere and lunged for my paper bag. I was quick though and did a kinda Spanish Ola and the wee ginger dug crashed into the fence allowing me time for a getaway.
    I wasn’t in a good mood, was nothing to cheer me up and it didn’t help when I got home to hear the wife tell me “your teas in the dug”. Went to bed.
    Wed 17th Sep:
    I’m sweating now, referendum tomorrow. Checked Wings, they guys are having a party already. I’m not so sure, my mother in lay still hates Salmond and tells me “we all hate him” meaning her pals at the dinner club down at the community centre. Surely nobody believes their pensions are safer with Osborne? Well apparently they do.
    Couldn’t sleep tonight and it seems I’m not the only one. Every online website and News article on Independence has gone viral. I was posting like mad on the Guardian, Telegraph, Daily Heil all at the same time. Eventually I fell asleep at the keyboard about 05:00.
    Thurs 18th Sep:
    06:00 Wife knocking me over the head with a cushion from the settee, “come on, get up we need to pick my mum up to go and vote”. Just rubbed my eyes asked for a cup of tea which I didn’t get and then went to pick up her mum.
    Couldn’t believe it when we got to the polling station at 07:30, saltires everywhere, lots of smiley faces trying to hand out Yes badges. I was crapping myself. So the three of us went in to our separate booths, I stared at the paper. This was it YES or NO? My hand was shaking as I put my X in the YES box. I looked again to make sure I’d done it right. I wasn’t relieved, I wasn’t excited, I wasn’t relaxed. I was stunned. It was done.
    I walked outside my wife came quite quickly behind me, we had to wait for her mum who seemed to be taking ages. Then I saw her, she had a tear in her eye. “Are you alright Margaret” I asked, “Yes” she said “Yes”.

  49. Les Wilson says:

    Thinking about Ruthie and her U turn on a currency union.
    Well, I think this is direct from Westminster.

    I think that because, it is very well know that the Unionists reject a CU, so much so they are adamant. They have dug a hole for themselves with English voters who now expect that it will not happen.

    However, imagine with a YES vote, they have put themselves between a rock and a hard place. Their balance of payments will be drastically hit, their debt costs will go up, and many more things would be effected.

    They cannot leave their stance too long, for what if the SG said ok, we now believe you, so we will now arrange another way. At this they really would panic. So Ruthie coming out with this today suggests to me that they now see a YES as likely, and are starting a reversal of policy.This would not have been said without Tory HQ having an input.

    They are now really scared all their negative stuff is not working, Scots are not listening, they are now having to face reality. The question now might be, that with all their debt, what will they give us, to join a currency union?

  50. TJenny says:

    Tepnr – missed that first time round, but boy, it was a grand uplifting wee read. Thank you. 🙂

  51. JGedd says:


    You kept me on tenterhooks until the end!

  52. Flower of Scotland says:

    @Thepnr…I loved that!’s hoping!

  53. TJenny says:

    JGedd – ah, but we haven’t had the climax where we’re all waiting on the end results to come in. Will we have to wait until the Monday for the Western Isles ballot result before all the results are announced? If so, I hope the shops and pubs get extra stocks of booze in, and chocolate – oh, yes, mucho chocolate. 🙂

  54. TheItalianJob says:


    Thanks for this. I read it the first time you posted it and re-read now.

    Last sentence made me very emotional.

    You are clever man and so hardworking for the cause. Scotland and it’s people should be proud it has people like you.

  55. Andy-B says:


    Great wee story,hopefully after a YES vote you can do a follow up, or like the rest of us,you may be to busy doing cartwheels doon Argyle Street.

  56. Brotyboy says:


    Gonnae no make me greet?

  57. JGedd says:

    @Grouse Beater 5.05pm

    He’s over there on Bella still giving out. I tiptoed quietly away. Let’s leave him to it. Still claims to be a Yes voter?

  58. Nana Smith says:

    I see the telegraph rag are saying Yes Scotland is facing a cash inquiry into ‘front’ groups.

    I very much doubt there will be any inquiry into the ‘front’ groups used by bettertogether/no thanks or whatever they are calling themselves this week. Anyone with half a brain can see they are being funded by Westminster/cbi/bbc etc etc.

  59. Horseboy says:

    Sunday Herald was soldout from my local Aberdeen shop today. As it was last Sunday.
    SH front page F1 graphics looked great.

    I was going to sign up for online Sunday Herald, but don’t like their daily Herald.

    ps. Saw the Labour millionaire war criminal Tony Blair advocating Iraqi war again. He looks mad, surely he should be sectioned.

    If Blair wants war so much, put him in lead tank.

    He’s a danger to our safety and freedoms.

    Time to vote YES, and never ever get involved with these warmongers again.

    pps. I’ve printed basic Wings/Bella/NewsNet A5 flyers. I’m near west end city centre Aberdeen. I’m very happy give away few 1000 to YES people, I’ve printed too much, help!

  60. Betsy says:

    Completely agree, there’s no way Ruth Davidson would have said that without approval. Remember it has been suggested that it was Darlings idea to state there would be no currency union, rather than the tories.

    I think the tories could sell a u-turn on this fairly easily in the event of a yes vote. All they need to do is spin it as they were previously rejecting Salmond’s proposed currency union but will now negotiate a good deal for rUK to avoid uncertainty for business. Of course all anyone was looking for was a negotiated union in the first place but that can be conveniently overlooked.

    If they were being really evil they could shaft Labour into the bargain by spinning Labour’s refusal to consider any currency union as evidence they can’t be trusted with the economy.

    Then again they may just be trying (too late by decades) to detoxify the Tory name in Scotland given the boost to Yes the prospect of another tory government has in the polls.

  61. Hood says:

    Horseboy says:
    “SH front page F1 graphics looked great.”

    Especially the back wheel falling off the red white and blue one 🙂

  62. seanair says:

    Great story.
    Thinking about the “difficult to convince” mother-in-law, the message about pensions still being paid in an Indy Scotland seems to be falling on many deaf ears for those of a certain age.
    Since various Nos are still putting it out that the pensions will disappear, should the Yes campaign not produce an A5 flyer with the refutation on the front in “Yes speak”, and on the back the letter from the DWP that gives the official situation? Many affected by the pension scare do not read websites like this, but they may vote No because “somebody told me the pensions are going”. Does the Yes campaign think that they have covered this or would they accept that this is a potential Achilles heel which could cause us grief at the polls.?
    A comment from campaign HQ would be welcome. Sorry Rev. Stu, a bit O/T.

  63. ronnie anderson says:

    ‘Thepnr, great post an I hope your dreams come to pass,as for the referance to myself ( big heided is it) let me tell

    you sumfin ma Manny,#=09)&U${~/!4$uss9=$/? noo that should keep you busy wie the WOS decoder book & if we wurna under
    ah modi tory um ah wid ha geid ma vile abuse in planet

    Rev Rev did you read whit that Thepnr cawed me.

  64. laukat says:

    Betsy, Les Wilson

    Not a fan of Michael Forsyth but David Torrance has this comment on his twitter feed. Might through more substance to your comments that the Tories are preparing for Independence?

    “David Torrance @davidtorrance · 2h

    Forsyth predicts a “substantial” vote for Indy in September; after wants a look at the UK constitution “in the whole” #bordersbookfestival”

  65. JGedd says:

    @Grouse Beater 5.05pm

    Read your letter to J K Rowling. Very, very good. It’s what I would have wanted to say.

  66. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks for the link goldenayr, unfortunately I’ve had a wee accident, my fingers seem to have acquired a mind of their own and apparently an e-mail has been sent from my computer to the author of the article as well. 😛

    Rather funny that Andy don’t you think. No Thanks bus with NO windows rolling all over Scotland yet it’s the same mugs that keep appearing in the mug shots. The only mugs in these shots are the No thanks crowd cause we sure as hell aint no mugs! 😛

  67. wingman 2020 says:

    Seriously Considering a NO vote?


    Who will get the brunt of the further austerity that has been guaranteed by Westminster? Will it be the rich or the poor? Will it be England or Scotland?

    To what extent do you believe that there will be any positive change for Scotland after a NO vote?

    Do you trust the Westminster parties to take decisions that will benefit residents of Scotland?

    Why has David Cameron worked from behind the scenes to stop Independence? He even asked for help from EU, USA and Russia. Why does he refuse to debate with Alex Salmond?

    Why have the Better Together and Westminster team never admitted that losing Scotland would affect them financially?

    Have you been scared into a NO vote by the establishment? (our biased BBC, the mainstream media and big business) They have threatened our livelihood, our economic well being, physical security, and our future.

    Have you been taken in by the propaganda against the SNP and Alex Salmond, and the so called Cybernats?

    Are you aware whats happening with the NHS and services in the South?

    And you are still seriously considering a NO vote? It must be obvious to most people that “…government of the people, by the people, for the people…” is infinetely preferable to having our wallet, prosperity and economic outlook managed by Westminster Tories (Red and Blue)

  68. wingman 2020 says:

    Did you really come up the Clyde on a Water Biscuit?

  69. turnip_ghost says:

    By having wee Ruthie put forward the idea they could deny it if it encountered hostility or quietly endure it if it gained traction….Poor wee MSP being used by the Westminster Big Boys as cannon fodder. Someone take her to the beach and help her find that line she seems to have misplaced.

  70. Grouse Beater says:

    J Gedd said: He’s over there on Bella still giving out

    He’s demanding a hanging.

    That’s sounds very like the disreputable society I know as the British establishment.

    Or one of the abusive trolls so detested by the Unionists.

  71. Thepnr says:

    @ronnie anderson

    What makes you think I was referring to you? Ya bam LOL

    I was ronnie only cos I luv ye.

  72. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bay Rok exposed, aka Susan Dalgety by perchancity.

  73. Lesley-Anne says:

    Don’t let anyone tell you we will get more powers if we vote NO.

    This is what we, the fighters for independence have always said. Let’s keep forcing them to argue against this make them look the biggest numpties in the land! 😛

  74. Grouse Beater says:

    Read your letter to J K Rowling. Very, very good. It’s what I would have wanted to say.

    All support is a spur to greater effort.

    Unfortunately, it’s not what I wanted to write. I wanted to write, “You pompous ***@@!!! misguided XXX””@@***!!!”

    Met a dozen women folk today all are spitting blood at her ‘carefully chosen thoughts’ even the one voting no.

  75. Papadox says:

    There are three ways to trick and deceive people.

    1- you tell them out and out lies.

    2- you withhold the truth from them.

    3- a mixture of the two. The way the government operates and has done since time immemorial.

    They use the state controlled “free” MSM, BBC to deceive the people and it’s worked very well for centuries. However there is a new kid on the block who is messing their system up and causing the establishment no end of trouble. It’s called the internet and it cuts through the lies and exposes the truth and that is very dangerous for the establishment, so this new method of getting the truth to the people has to be attacked, undermined and brought into question or ELIMINATED?

    The system is rancid and needs to be replaced. They will do anything, ANYTHING to hang onto their putrified system. They will use anybody, anything, any means to keep their control of their system. Things are going to get very nasty thanks to HMG and it’s agencies.

  76. Horseboy says:

    Was pounding the pavement delivering my YES newspapers on Friday in my WINGS full web address TShirt, 2″ lettering front and back. Got several toots and hello’s on the pavement.

    Walking home it was rushhour, hundreds of cars passing. Had inspired idea, decided to walk 2circuits of Great Southern Road, Riverside Drive and Millburn/BonAccord Street, loitering at the roundabouts.

    Hoping WINGS gets increased visitors, fae Aberdeen.

    ps. My cunning plan to encourage the inquisitive to visit WINGS.

    pps. I looked a right div. No problemo. I’m going the extra mile.

  77. Lesley-Anne says:

    Hmm. Just a wee bit O/T here.

    A couple of houses in the court where I stay have, within the last couple of hours put up England flags outside their houses. I’m just wondering if either household knows that England played LAST NIGHT. More importantly do they actually know what the final score was, I’m thinking they don’t. 😛

  78. ronnie anderson says:

    E Mail from REV. Ronnie am passin the Ba nd baton on to you
    fur the rest of the nite.

    Any requests people.

    1st in Thepnr, Blair Mac Dougall playing Land of Hope & Ful

    of Tory on the Tuba.

    Naw Thepnr am no playin that thats a Rid Flag tae a Labour

    supporter in heil report us fur Cyberry berry abuse.

    Ur the Straws riddy yit.

  79. ronnie anderson says:

    Strawbs riddy

  80. Thepnr says:


    You are an absolute nutter. But I love your posts, get in there and never give in. Just don’t post in all Caps 🙂

  81. yabadabadoo says:

    Are people aware the present trend in Scottish Schools to have the BBC News 24 rolling on a TV screen, full time at the front desk. Since when was propaganda allowed in Scottish Schools? These live BBC propaganda feeds should be stopped immediately.

    Worse than this, we have to pay for these propaganda feeds with the threat of jail and a criminal record if we don’t.

    Propaganda, sorry broadcasting, will never be devolved to a Scottish Government. Only a yes will secure this.

    However, the big question is after a YES vote will the Scottish people be trusted and have their right to free speech secured in the constitution?

    Only having free speech for every Scottish citizen included in the constitution will secure sites like WOS for the long term and their contribution to an open and democratic society that can hold the government and press to account.

    We need to think about what happens after the YES vote now or only a few will decided for the majority and we might not be happy with the result.

  82. Thepnr says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Free hoose then and anything goes? Bit dodgy lol

  83. Thepnr says:


    Sorry, my ridiculous post came right after yours which I never saw. It is not right that our children should be exposed to the Establishment propaganda through the media we know of as the BBC .

    How can we prevent this? I think it’s too late, let’s just use our energy in the fight for a Yes. I can do that, so too can you.

  84. Betsy says:

    Interesting. They’ve certainly come a long way from dismissing the possibility as they did in the past.

  85. Grouse Beater says:

    Tronnis said at 8.30pm:

    A modest essay that speaks from the heart.

    I added my thoughts on ‘hope’ to it.

  86. laukat says:


    Of all the tories to say they expect a yes vote Forsyth would be one of the most unlikely. Maybe he’s seen the numbers on the poll they won’t publish?

  87. manandboy says:

    In the Scottish Catholic Observer dated Fri June 13th 2014, there is a full page advert showing a very large picture of John Reid(Lord Reid of Cardowan) with a quote all down one side.

    I was quite taken aback when I saw it.

    Taken out in a Catholic paper, this advert is aimed at the Catholic,
    Labour-voting, Celtic supporting members of the electorate. The SCO is usually only sold in Catholic Parishes throughout Scotland at the week end. I have no idea of numbers of copies sold.

    Let me give you the quote in full and unabridged:-

    “I am a proud Scot and want the best for our country. That’s why I’ll be voting No to separation in September.
    “A No vote is a vote to protect the best interests of Scotland and its people. Being part of the UK means we can have the best of both worlds for Scotland. We can have our own unique identity here in Scotland and benefit from the security that comes from being part of something bigger. Only separation puts that at risk”
    John Reid
    Former Labour Cabinet Minister
    Former Chairman, Celtic FC

    Please note the Westminster/ Labour PR tags, those ‘must speak’ words of the No Campaign:-
    ‘proud Scot’
    ‘best for our country’
    ‘No to separation’
    ‘best interests of Scotland’
    ‘our own unique identity’
    ‘benefit from the security that comes from being part of something bigger’
    ‘only separation’

    John is of course not the author of these words.

    This message has been carefully crafted by the David Cameron led No Campaign/Labour PR dept., which now includes the recent addition of John McTernan, the PR man who makes Jack Irvine look like Snow White.

    Each word and phrase of the Dark Side’s PR offensive are all included.

    But for what Lord John of Cardowan really wanted to say, read on :-

    I am a proud Scot, but not too proud to take English gold for my support of the Unionist Establishment. They paid me well I must admit, and for most of my life.

    Now listen up. I have a very comfortable seat on the Westminster Gravy Train and I do NOT want to be disturbed. I’ve spent my whole life here and I’ve grown used to the luxury lifestyle. I am going to be very angry indeed if you mugs in Scotland vote for Independence. Now I know I left Scotland behind when I joined the Labour Unionist Party, but I needed the money, so becoming ‘separated’ was the only way out for me – and so many of my friends here on the Train.

    Look, I’m one of you,- well, I was,- I’m a Celtic man, a Tim all my life and solid Labour, just like you, well not quite.

    So, be reasonable wull ye and vote No so that me and all my other rich Scottish Unionist Labour friends can continue to live in the manner we’ve grown accustomed to on the Unionist Westminster Gravy Train.

    If you see me, give me a wave.

    I’ll be in the First Class Dining Car.

    Lord John

    ” Pass me the gravy, will you.”

  88. Mary Bruce says:

    Thepnr: I must have missed your story first time around so thanks for posting it again, much enjoyed. There have been quite a few wee boosts this weekend, after the nonsense last week. I’m feeling very positive. How do you do a smiley thing?

  89. Robert Peffers says:

    Just where did Cameron get his history and geography lessons from? He seems to have no idea of how idiotic he comes across. His utter confusion of what is English, Scottish,Welsh Irish and British is pathetic.

    This most recent exposure of ignorance, where he says we should all be less bashful about our Britishness and then ignorantly tells us we should teach our children about the ENGLISH Magna Carta really exposes him as a real numptie.
    (Magna Carta- 1215). Jings! England didn’t even take over Wales until 1284. They were more or less at war with every other British Kingdom then.

    Just by chance I had been making my latest, “Better Together Lies”, YouTube video and have just put it up on the web.

    It shows his recent Andrew Marr TV Show slot. Believe it or not, between them, they manage to confuse the UK and Britain 50 times in 23 minutes.

    Makes one wonder if Cameron really does believe he is the Prime Minister of the entire British Isles and that Britain is really just another name for England with England OWNING the other six countries of The British Isles.

    Anyhow this latest one is the last link in this series : –

  90. Mary Bruce says:

    manandboy: Should we crowdfund you to submit your corrected version of the advert for the front page of next week’s edition? That would be fun.

  91. manandboy says:

    There’s an idea Mary. I might just give the advertising desk at SCO a call just for the craic and get a quote.

  92. crazycat says:

    I don’t think “Forsyth predicts a “substantial” vote for Indy in September; after wants a look at the UK constitution “in the whole” necessarily means he’s expecting a Yes victory – anything above 40% could be classed as “substantial”.

    “Substantial” may just mean more than they think they could safely ignore altogether. Looking at the UK constitution as a whole also suggests to me that he thinks the UK will still contain all its current parts, and that vague promises will keep it that way.

  93. BuckieBraes says:

    John Reid – he’s a card, isn’t he?

    More ‘Proud Scottery’ and this ‘best of both worlds’ thing…has anyone asked ‘Better Together’ to explain what these two worlds are, of which Scotland’s current status constitutes the best?

  94. Thepnr says:


    Love your take on the words of Mr John Reid. I know which version I choose to believe.

    If there’s one thing we can do. That is to ridicule them then let’s do it. They are begging us to ridicule them. We should oblige.

  95. kininvie says:

    re Forsyth and Ruth

    There’s many different interpretations you can throw on this one, but my favourite is that Scottish Tories see themselves as potential power brokers when it comes to post-indy negotiations. I mean… they know the right people, speak the kind of lanaguage that will be understood down South – etc.

    So they are carefully hedging their bets, with, no doubt, the tacit approval of Cameron, et al. The purpose being to shaft Labour. Scottish Tories aren’t blinded by hatred of the SNP, and now ScoLab has backed itself into such a corner and made so many gross mistakes, it’s doubtful anyone will want them anywhere near ‘Team Scotland’.

    So, let’s look to a future where Cameron can present himself in 2015 as the reasonable man who is busy negotiating a successful and amicable independence settlement with the help of his friends north of the border (who will be able to capitalise on this, come 2016). The SNP is likely to be quite happy with that line, as they recognise that hostile, drawn-out negotiations are the last thing an Indy Scotland needs, and that – in purely pragmatic terms, negotiating with an essentially amoral Tory government will be easier than negotiation with a Labour one still harping on about pooling and sharing and the need for everyone to keep the nuclear weapons so we can all disarm at the same time…

    And where does this leave Labour? Fully out of the picture in Scotland and floundering and unhappy elsewhere. And it will be very easy (because true) to throw the blame for losing Scotland onto its ineptitude.

    Win win. The only surprise is that Labour doesn’t see this and do something to match it (but they are doubtless too busy trying to understand and sell devo-nano)

  96. Thepnr says:

    @Mary Bruce

    : then )= 🙂

  97. ronnie anderson says:

    @Buckie Braes Ah prefer the Jim Reeves version

    When Two Worlds Collide lol.

  98. Thepnr says:


    You are a wise man I have no doubt of that, however you fail to see that Labour in Scotland is finished. Their demise is no longer dependent on the referendum result. The whole referendum debate or lack of has exposed the Labour party in Scotland as being useless.

    As a lifelong supporter and one time member I can only say…Good Riddance.

  99. Camz says:

    Well that’s my license fee spent on another Andrew Neil ‘comedy slot’.

    What a waste. They could have spent 4-5 minutes educating the masses on who all these people were. Instead, they assume everyone knows, so the disaffected switch over again and again.

  100. Rock says:


    “so this new method of getting the truth to the people has to be attacked, undermined and brought into question or ELIMINATED?”

    I was also wondering if they could somehow find a way of disrupting the internet during the final period leading up to the referendum – they would dearly love to.

    They have been talking about this impending massive virus attack haven’t they?

  101. TJenny says:

    Thepnr – I agree with you re the Labour party in Scotland, but they’re still able to get elected as councilors, MSPs and MPs, so unfortunately a lot of labourites don’t seem to view them with your eyes. Let’s hope enough of them realise the referendum isn’t a party vote, and vote Yes.

  102. yabadabadoo says:


    Yes, work 110 percent for a YES vote. But know this, that there is no point to in attaining a YES vote only to exchange one set of Banker elites governing us in Westminster for Banker elites governing us from Edinburgh and the EU (look are Greece). Without sorting out the Bank of England and it’s network of casino banks we will be open to exploitation from the British Empire ( )

    People of Scotland need a passport to freedom and one of the main tools to secure this is freedom of speech. This protects and secures the YES vote. We need this in the constitution as a must.

    Just as a side note due to this weeks media frenzy : Freedom of speech will mean we will all have to accept a higher level of offensive material which we will have to learn to ignore. Freedom of speech is the right for other to offend you. That is the cost. If people want to exclude all offensive material then you will have to have censorship on the scale of China and who gets to do the censorship? Well the banker elite of course.

    One last point if I may. From memory (I may be corrected on this) Gandhi committed himself to defending all others without exception but refused to defend himself in court. This seem strange to me at the time but after last week it makes perfect sense. If he had decided to defend himself against every wrong of the British Empire against himself, he would have spent all of his time doing just this. He would have had no time to do what he went onto do. He was focused on his goal.
    WOS may want to take a note of this before being sidetracked into the British Empire courts.

    The British Empire hates WOS because it is a platform of free speech for the Scottish people that they cannot control directly (as yet). They will try and control it indirectly by smear and sidetracking it into dead-end pursuits to sap its energy and even crowdfunding. Stay focused and go for the higher goals.

    Finally, propaganda in Scottish Schools is unlawful in Scotland. Parents just need to point this out to their Local Councils.

  103. Gordon E says:

    john king at 6.00AM (Becoming the Story)

    Sorry, I know this is O/T but I think it is important.

    Thanks very much John for the info on the OSCE – Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR).
    Never heard of them but they might just be the people that could sort out this BBC bias mess.

    Some more info from their website:

    The OSCE Representative on Freedom of the Media in action:

    “The Representative regularly speaks up on attempts to restrict pluralism in broadcast, print, and online media. These restrictions can take various forms, from favouritism of state-owned media to pressure exercised over broadcasters or outright closure of media outlets. The Representative raises these issues with the States through diplomatic channels and public statements.”

    “Recognizing that democratic elections form the basis for legitimate government, the OSCE observes elections throughout its 57 participating States. It also provides technical assistance to improve the legislative and administrative framework for elections in specific countries. Some OSCE field operations carry out elections-related activities, including training for election commission members, media and police as well as voter education initiatives. They do not, however, take part in election observation missions in their countries of operation.”

    The main issue here is that the State (ie the UK) has to ask for assistance, they are not going to ask for assistance but we really, really need them to. The only way we are going to get them to ask for assistance is a campaign (possibly a 1 million signature campaign?) to make sure that they are playing by the rules and get it publicised widely and embarrass them into proving that everything will be above board.

    Just an idea but it really seems that there is not much else that we can do.

  104. Xaracen says:


    You missed one: “Being part of the UK means we can have the best of both worlds.”

    Does not mean we already have this, just that we could, theoretically, in principle, if we all play nice, when the time is right, as and when resources permit, in the fullness of time, after all the implications and caveats have been worked out, and we all agree that this is the best way forward, and there are no objections, and the will exists, and it doesn’t contravene the constitution, the EU, custom and practice and isn’t the start of a slippery slope. 😀

  105. ronnie anderson says:

    Where does one get this bbc TV propaganda in schools from

  106. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Someone’s been busy in Irvine – saw loads of bright blue Yes stickers on lamp-posts and traffic signs, all the way from the Turf Bar, along the Main St, past the Bingo, down the road towards the Bailey Bridge. Look great in the sunlight, very cheery.

    SSP doing stall in Ayr Main St tomorrow, at the Wallace Tower, around lunch-time. If anyone wants copies of latest Wings flyer, I’ll bring extra.

  107. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    @BuckieBraes & ronnie anderson,

    for some time I have wondered where the “Two Worlds” are?
    How can we have the best of both of them?

    The is only one world – the real world. It is the world I live in and is why I will vote Yes.

    The other world is a complete Unionist fantasy.

  108. Arel says:


    You are a wise man I have no doubt of that, however you fail to see that Labour in Scotland is finished. Their demise is no longer dependent on the referendum result. The whole referendum debate or lack of has exposed the Labour party in Scotland as being useless.

    As a lifelong supporter and one time member I can only say…Good Riddance.”

    Can also say, very sadly, the same goes for me. Time for the Labour party in Scotland to waken up, votes no longer guaranteed.

  109. Thepnr says:


    How will you vote in the referendum? How will your wife, husband or children vote? I take it you are likely to vote YES. What about your neighbours or people you work with.

    Are they going to vote Yes? You don’t know yet do you? You want them too but have you asked. No, I didn’t think so, few of us have but it is now time. Ask the question, then provide the answer.

    Why is Wings hated so much? Because we can provide the answers people need. I don’t just think it will be Rev Stu that will be the target of their ire, we are all potential targets. So what, that just shows how desperate they are.

  110. goldenayr says:

    Grouse Beater says:
    J Gedd said: He’s over there on Bella still giving out

    He’s demanding a hanging.
    That’s sounds very like the disreputable society I know as the British establishment.
    Or one of the abusive trolls so detested by the Unionists.

    Not guilty,I’ve been on the beeb all night.Anyhoos,the Scotsmans banned TBEL again for absolutely no reason.No warning strikes,no red flags,nothing.I’d understand if I was as abusive as the unionits but I wasn’t.

    That and I don’t post on Bella.Need to start though if Doris and Smee have started pestering folk there.They did threaten to do here and the other sites a couple of weeks back.

  111. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    SCO had an article (on E Dumbarton Cathoic Schools)last week in which Kevin McKenna very surely suggested Catholics should vote YES

  112. twenty14 says:

    @Rock – think its too late . We are now our own internet we now know the truth and they can shut down every laptop in the UK but they can’t shutdown us , and as long as we keep talking to family, friends, neighbours etc then the truth will not be silenced. As many, many people have stated ” the genie’s out of the bottle “

  113. laukat says:


    Agree in general that the Tory plan is to shaft to Labour.

    However I don’t think that Scottish Labour will exist shortly after independence. I believe they will become toxic and be overtaken by either the Greens, the SSP or a newly constituted left wing party. Perhaps also the hate of the SNP form the Labour rank and file will disappear as they accept the change.

    Labour in the RUK will also be unelectable. Not due to the loss of the UK heartland but because Darling, Alexander and Brown will be the ones blamed for the failure and be painted as inept by the English, Welsh and Northern Irish electorate.

    As Jim Sillar’s and countless others have said it will be the traditional Labour vote that decides the referendum so failure to win the referendum will be laid at Labours door and will haunt them for a long time in the eyes of the RUK electorate. I think we may be looking at something similar to what happened to the Liberals after WW1.

  114. CameronB Brodie says:

    Re. Jam tomorrow (i.e. the promise of more powers following a No vote).

    Coming from Dundee, it is perhaps no surprise that jam has been a significant factor in my life. For example, when working as a gaffer on a berry farm near Perth, I learned it was prudent to smell the punnets before weighing and paying the picker. This is especially true during a dry summer.

    P.S. Has the Sunday Herald figured out what is under the carpet?

  115. Gordon E says:

    kininvie says:
    15 June, 2014 at 9:20 pm

    re Forsyth and Ruth

    Spot on assesment of what is probably in the minds of the Scottish Tories.

    Cameron will blame Labour for “losing Scotland”, Labour will look pretty nasty, largely unelectable and mostly frozen out of “Team Scotland” and who better to help negotiate with the rUK Tories but the Scottish Tories! Cameron will be seen to negotiate the best deal possible for the rest of the UK and also wins the 2015 election with 50 odd less Labour MP’s to worry about. What a result for the Tories!

  116. Thepnr says:


    You have been missed, some folk are asking after you over in Off Topic. I think it would be fine to smell the punnets but I wouldn’t smell a luggie or a bucket!

  117. Robert Peffers says:

    @laukat says: “I think we may be looking at something similar to what happened to the Liberals after WW1”.

    I think you could be correct, Laukat. It is some considerable time since I came across a Labour voter who could articulate any reasoned case for voting Labour.
    Other than their own or family loyalty, that is, but that is not a valid case made for voting for anything.

  118. Appleby says:

    I think this is more evidence that large numbers of the hacks are reading your blog and twitter and pinching ideas from it.

  119. bookie from hell says:

    Horseboy says:
    15 June, 2014 at 8:22 pm
    Was pounding the pavement delivering my YES newspapers on Friday in my WINGS full web address TShirt, 2? lettering front and back. Got several toots and hello’s on the pavement.

    Walking home it was rushhour, hundreds of cars passing. Had inspired idea, decided to walk 2circuits of Great Southern Road, Riverside Drive and Millburn/BonAccord Street, loitering at the roundabouts.

    awesome —-it’s workers like you that will get us over the line

  120. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cheers mate. Other responsibilities called. Was over in Dundee to give my 79 year old mum some respite relief from caring for my 81 y.o. father. This has been her full-time occupation for the last few years, though it is a lot easier for her now that she has had a quadruple bypass. I know she was grateful, as this relief let her visit London to settle her sister’s estate. I reckon my mum must have been very wicked in a previous life. 😉

  121. yabadabadoo says:


    Of course I will vote yes – that is the easy part. But I am not naive enough to think that the British Empire will leave it at that. See Sillars on MI5-

    What the YES voters need to wake up to is the day after the YES vote, a very few people will start to negotiate on everyone’s behalf. For example the SNP policy of keeping the Bank of England and pound will cost everyone £7000 to take on UK debt. When exactly did we vote for that?

    The biggest positive case for a YES vote is to get rid of UK debt. That would be a transformational policy. However the SNP are determined to keep the Banking elite of the British Empire on-side and at the Scottish trough.

    For your information(you will need an hour), “Who we fight” video on British Empire:

    PS I was at Hamilton at the Ewing Victory were you? The road is long and it will not stop at a YES vote in September.

    @ronnie anderson
    All schools now seem to have a TV flat screen put right at front office with BBC 24 hr propaganda news feed. If your local school does not have one it will becoming soon.

  122. Dr Ew says:

    Newsnet has published an open letter to JK Rowling regarding her statement that accompanied her £1 million donation to Nae Chance. MSM commentators – including some Yes advocates – all praised her “eloquence and positivity” when her text was, in fact, full of unionist assumptions, BT-style misinformation and quite cynically played the ethnic card.

    Maybe YES was cowed by her beloved status and/or the Clare Lally imbroglio, but the fact is JK got massive kudos while her arguments remained essentially unchallenged.

    This is the best I’ve read on it:

    …a deconstruction of her entire argument. Well worth a read!

  123. manandboy says:

    Xaracen says:
    15 June, 2014 at 9:45 pm

    You missed one: “Being part of the UK means we c a n have the best of both worlds.”

    Like your take on ‘can’ Xaracen.


  124. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. folks for a bonus 10 points who knows what the latest wheeze from Westminster is regarding their stealth tax regime. Well I jest you not but apparently they are considering the idea of doing away with the T.V. licence. Don’t go celebrating just yet until you hear what they plan to do in order to grab their £145.50 a year out of your hard earned wages. They are looking at adding the T.V. licence to your…wait for it…here it comes…it’s coming… just wait… they’re looking at adding your T.V. licence tax to your council tax!

    John Whittingdale, chairman of the Culture, Media and Sports Committee, said: “There is a strong case for at least updating the licence fee. One simple way is to maintain it as a charge on every household but attach it to an existing bill, be it council tax or some other. It’s something that we would consider as a potential alternative.”

  125. Paula Rose says:

    @ Lesley-Anne – ROFL and PML and FFS.

  126. Free Scotland says:

    I see John Reid was keeping alive the prevailing ignorance of the general public regarding the already independent status of NHS Scotland when he was mouthing the dreary trash for which he is now famous on the Andrew Marr show today.

  127. mike says:

    Thats 4mins 28 secs of my life wasted.

  128. muttley79 says:

    I think we should be very sceptical of Jim Sillars’ CIA and MI5 comments in regards to 1979. The fact of the matter is the George Cunningham’s 40 per cent rule effectively made getting a sufficient Yes vote almost impossible. While I would not rule out the possibility that these intelligence groups were involved in some activities in Scotland in 1979, I don’t believe they would have been at all significant enough in regards the outcome of the referendum.

    With the 40 per cent rule in place, devolution was effectively killed when it was introduced. Labour were split massively and apparently did very little in the way of campaigning, the Tories were against it, and had a much stronger position in Scottish politics then. The SNP, while mostly campaigning for it, were by no means united on it, as some thought the proposals were too weak. This all makes me very sceptical about Sillars’ comments. Remember as well that the Yes vote was over 50 per cent.

  129. kininvie says:

    @thepnr @arel @laucat

    I wouldn’t write off Scottish Labour just yet. Let us suppose you are an intelligent and ambitious ScoLab MSP (there are a few). You know your current leadership (including WM leadership) is shite. You fear you may lose the referendum. You recognise the party will be in meltdown after that, and there will be a lot of leaderlss – yet potentially loyal – people left stranded.

    Further, you recognise that you have until 2016 to do something about it. Do you jump ship now and gamble? Or do you keep silent until the referendum is lost, and then make a bid – pointing out unholy alliance of Tory/SNP negotiating team, putting out appeals to SSP & RIC for a more left-wing agenda etc – with the aim of building the party into an effective opposition (at least) for 2016?

    You could even go into 2016 calling for re-negotiation of indy settlement – if you thought that had traction (although God forbid we get into that). Whatever…an ambitious and intelligent politician will always see opportunity in his/her party’s resounding defeat. – cf Maggie’s rise to power on the ashes of Heath’s Tories

  130. Rock says:



    Ours is a genuine grassroots campaign and thanks to the internet and WoS, the people of Scotland have woken up like never before.

    But we still don’t operate in a free and democratic system. The black arts army led by the likes of UKIP TV and The Scotsman is in full swing.

  131. StevieMcB says:

    @ Dr JM MacIntosh
    @BuckieBraes & ronnie anderson,
    for some time I have wondered where the “Two Worlds” are?
    How can we have the best of both of them?

    The is only one world – the real world. It is the world I live in

    Cyberworld, WOS, where the truth is,a bit of humour, sarcasm, wit, quality cartoons, the Rev! who needs tv & papers. we will win, the fight is on, the people on here represent all that is good in Scotland. the spooks stole their scripts from Scoobydoo,whereas we are wise and informed, thanks to this amazing website and the folk who contribute.

  132. Grouse Beater says:

    Dr Ew said: JK got massive kudos while her arguments remained essentially unchallenged.

    I challenged them on my blog – I live doors away from her. Her remarks are far more calculating than her ‘generous spirit’ would have you believe … at first reading.

  133. Liquid Lenny says:


    Re UK debt, what the Scottish Government has said is that it will take on its fair share of servicing the debt, meaning that after allowances for our 8.3% share of assets.

    Currently debt 1.6tn Assets 1.4tn, therefore the amount of debt we have said we will service is miniscule in the scheme of things, Ruk of whatever you want to call is and will still be post Sept our export biggest market, it would be incredibly stupid to put that market into an accelerated downward spiral to depression.

    However the UK is putting Public Sector Pension Liabilities and PFI debt onto the books on Sept 30th 2014, this will more than double the UK debt, but Im sure we can say they have cooked the books and we will only accept the debt figure as it stands at Sept 18th 2014.

  134. kininvie says:


    Despite believing in an independent Scotland, I was one of those who voted No in ’79, because I thought the Devolution Bill was an absolute dog’s breakfast (which it was). I was probably wrong to vote that way – but there you go. I was young.

    MI5 involvement in the independence debate is likely to be very low. They don’t have unlimited budget, and chasing after extremists threatening London or Birmingham is likely to be much higher on their list of priorities. Maybe a few folk will be allocated part time to trolling on Twitter or planting a few stories in MSM, but that will be about it. And GCHG may seek to annoy a few of the Yes prominente by messing with their websites, but there’s hardly likely to be more than that.
    Don’t forget that the UK is hosting a NATO summit in Sept, and that will be taking up a lot of people’s time

    Remember the Tory govt don’t actually care very much about Scotland. It brings no votes with it. The MoD is a different matter – but I’ve no idea what their reach or their ability to disrupt might be.

  135. Lesley-Anne says:

    Paula Rose says:

    @ Lesley-Anne – ROFL and PML and FFS.

    Sorree! 😛

  136. laukat says:


    Only issue with that analysis is that it depends on there being a political savy Labour MSP waiting and able to take an opportunity.

    In my view the talented politicians who would have been in Scottish Labours ranks are not at Westminster or keeping a low profile, they are instead no longer in that party and have either moved to the SNP, Greens or SSP already.

    Being kind the last Scottish Labour leadership contest was scraping the barrel who on earth would want to stand in the next one?

  137. CameronB Brodie says:

    Liquid Lenny
    What about extending the good will up to the date the Edinburgh Agreement was signed?

  138. goldenayr says:


    If you’re still around just now,let us know if you get a reply.
    Couldn’t believe how ignorant the guy was.

  139. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @kininvie –

    I always read your comments with great interest, and respect your ‘big view’ take on it all.

    However, when it comes to SLab making any kind of overtures towards the SSP, I suspect the answer will involve two words, the latter of which will be ‘off’. Individual Labourites making a bolt for some kind of freedom is another matter – I still hope and pray that someone like Katy Clark will take the plunge.

    Mind you, I’m a rank/file member, so it’s not my shout, and far stranger things have happened. It will be fascinating to see what happens once we’re over the line.

  140. Liquid Lenny says:

    CameronB Brodie

    Yup that sounds good to me 🙂

  141. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:


    If you’re still around just now,let us know if you get a reply.
    Couldn’t believe how ignorant the guy was.

    Certainly will. I think he falls into the category of seriously incompetent trainee journalist. 😛

  142. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Thepnr Loved your post. I wish I could write like that.I cant. but I love my music. so this song is for you. and all the wingers. I Think it is

  143. goldenayr says:

    “Certainly will. I think he falls into the category of seriously incompetent trainee journalist”

    He certainly writes like one,however he’s been the NYTimes Foreign correspondent for time immemorial.Which begs the Q.
    If someone of his knowledge and understanding can be so misinformed,who’s feeding him the lies?

  144. goldenayr says:

    Check this out on from the beeb site.

    5 Minutes ago
    The Scots have been largely ("Tractor" - Ed)s to Britain for centuries and certainly in the last two world wars. Why don’t we just dump them. Let them have independence but if they need any help after that sod the lot of them!.

    I’ll leave you to get angry,I’m going back for a piece of him.

  145. kininvie says:


    Thanks Ian. Indeed it will be fascinating. The closer the polls get, the more we shall see politicians quietly looking towards the aftermath.

    Personally, I want rid of the whole damned lot of them. I want to see a Scottish parliament full of people who want to work for Scotland, not their own ambitions. I’d like to see every MSP limited to two terms, so they could never build a career for life. But I recognise that I’m a hopeless idealist in that respect.

    You and I come from different points on the political spectrum. But I recognise our similarities, and I think you do also. Let us never forget that we work to one end: a better country

  146. Lesley-Anne says:

    Have to say goldenayr he can only be getting his s***e from one source and that source is certainly NOT the YES camp!

    What really gets me is that he obviously believe the s***e that he wrote. Any one with the slightest nod towards common sense would have actually researched the very basics at least behind our fight for independence.

  147. goldenayr says:


    That’s what I challenged him on.Like I said,will be interesting if we get a reply.

  148. Lesley-Anne says:

    goldenayr says:


    That’s what I challenged him on.Like I said,will be interesting if we get a reply.

    I did the same, also gave him a wee bit of a history lesson and queried him on why no Brits were asked about independence on a whole host of countries like India, Canada etc. Also asked him about the Norwegian independence vote in 1905 to boot. 😛

  149. StevieMcB says:

    Why have Labour?, they are selling us down the river! they will have a big problem. TRUST? No Labour unionist should ever be allowed near an independent Scottish Parliament.

    A new trustworthy group will need to be assembled, with a real sense of the social justice, not just for the workers, you cant ignore the poor, disabled their carers, the children in poverty, the Labour representative’s especially in Glasgow seem to have they & their own interests at heart. Do we need Labour?

  150. manandboy says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:
    15 June, 2014 at 10:14 pm

    Kevin McKenna very surely suggested Catholics should vote YES
    I caught that piece Dave.
    KMcK does seem to have changed tack alright and glad to see it.
    He also features on Derek Batemans’ latest radio show which is worth a listen to. It was good to hear how these two men were very comfortable with one another.

    Actually, in the John Reid advert I was and still am curious as to the thinking behind the placement of the ad.
    I still have a contact to call and may have something then. It’s probably a straight play -if that’s possible for No/Labour.

  151. goldenayr says:

    This is too spooky.If it’s not our dislike of Irishmen wanting to be Englishmen taking over our telly.It’s writing exactly the same thing to ignorant journos(apart from the Norway bit,never thought of that).

  152. Lesley-Anne says:

    The Norway indy part just came to me in a flash when I was writing the e-mail sort of like a last second idea to really rub it in so to speak. 😛

  153. goldenayr says:

    Anyhoos,the beeb have closed the comments,I’m knacked and can hear Zebidee calling.

    Oichde mhath folks.

  154. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oichde mhath 😉

  155. Kenny says:

    I’ve just got round to watching the Marr show. What the hell is with these questions about whether or not you’re supporting England? It’s absurd. Are Man Utd fans somehow bigoted if they don’t support Man City in Europe next season? Are Rangers fans anti-Scottish if they don’t support Celtic in Europe? I have no real reason to support England. I’m supporting Germany because I’m seeing a German woman who is a very passionate football fan. Andrew Marr’s analysis was really offensive though. “The better England do, the angrier the Scots will get, won’t they?” What a dreadful remark to make. If/when England go out, will Cameron be asked who he’s supporting and asked if he thinks Germany losing will be good for his European negotiations? No. Because that’s about proper sovereignty and grown-up politics, not the petty, emotional, irrational, anti-English silliness of the Scottish referendum. Not just a pitiful excuse for journalism, but a fairly shabby example of humanity.

  156. yabadabadoo says:

    @liquid lenny

    UN charter states that all new states CANNOT have debt on day one of Independence. The SNP’s plan is load us up with private casino British Empire bank debt on day one. And we the Scottish tax payer have to pay interest on that debt to the British Empire Banks.

    The idea that this is our fair share is nonsense as the debt belongs to Westminster policies of illegal serial wars, bailing out bankrupt British Empire banks and of course being paid as banker bonuses mainly in the City of London.

    British Empire Debt…NO THANKS.

    Our assets are Scotland and the people that live and have a connection here. For instance if we really need the rump-end of the Royal Navy for our security then just build the ships on the clyde. That would go along way to getting the unemployed back to work.

    Get this: the whole asset story line is to sell the Scottish public the British Empire Debt Period.

    Why on earth having our own National Banking system, own currency risk anything with our biggest market RUK? Ireland hamstrung with the Euro has increased trade with UK year on year.

    The key to trade and business it to actually make something someone else wants to buy.

    I dont see Norway or Switzerland jumping up and down to join the Euro to increase trade. No thanks, they will keep their Independence thank you very much.

    Of course the elephant in the room that the SNP will not tell you is that you do not have to pay interest on any debt at all. Why, because you can use the American Credit System and issue you currency straight from the Scottish Treasury at 0 per cent interest. If the UK government was to do this the UK would save the equivalent of the total NHS budget every year in interest paid to…. you guessed the British Empire Banks and speculators.

    The whole point of this YES vote is to protect the people from the casino bankrupt banks that have now adopted a Bail-in policy – causing “austerity” and destruction everywhere:

    “Argentine Congressmen Tell U.S. Counterparts: Sovereignty Comes Before Speculators ”

    Our politicians will have to come up to speed sooner rather than later.

    The Yes Vote is the easy part.

  157. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @kininvie –

    Cheers mister, and more power to ye.

    I hope you’re still considering the ‘Bill Bryson’ idea you mentioned at CH1 – you’re the man to do it.

  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    I share a lot of your concerns, but would we not be better dealing with these issues once we have a Yes vote? All shoulders too the wheel, and all that? Pooling as a team and sharing in the hope?

  159. Adrian B says:

    @ yabadabadoo,

    I think that the reason for servicing our share of the debt is as a goodwill gesture as it is a small offering to help pay down some of Westminsters massive borrowings.

    No assets then no liabilities. I do not think that this has ever been done before. Countries have always I understand left with a clean slate as the UK has always liked to be seen as being able to afford any debt repayments. Its certainly an interesting angle for a proud rUK to adopt if they go for it.

    There is lots to be negotiated so there is no real point in getting bogged down in the pre negotiation talks about nothing that is currently relevant. Once we have Indy then I am sure that the agreement between the two nations will be reasonably amicable. We are neighbours and if we decide to make our own decisions from now on I certainly feel that we can do so from a position of fiscal wealth.

  160. CameronB Brodiie says:

    Educational but may have been missed. 😉

    European and External Relations Committee – Scottish Parliament: 12th June 2014

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    Cheers for the edit, I’d better get some specks. TA if you catch the repeat. 🙂

  162. Ken500 says:

    Scotland and the electorate who live there have been subject to vile abuse, secrecy, lies, debt and death from Westminster. Even to the extent many people have had to leave their country and home, involuntarily just to survive. Westminster economic policies had depopulated Scotland. Many people lived unhappily in poverty and despair (and still do) because of Westminster wickedness, ignorance, arrogance and lies.

    When people in Scotland are resisting a Westminster political system which is despicable and many despise for legitimate reasons. Westminster try to further support and extend the lies, to vilify those who are objecting to the complete corruption of Westminster.

    There are no Cybernats ‘ bullies’ and there is no proof that any exist. There are genuine people who are sick of the present political system, who will vote against it, and who will win. Right before might. The Unionists have not got a wing or a prayer. MSM lies will not win.

    Couldn’t find a Sunday Herald anywhere yesterday, for love or money.

  163. Ken500 says:

    An agreement will be reach no debt but no assets. That is the most manageable. That is what has happened Scotland has ben getting the debt but none of the assets. Scotland has been servicing Westminster debt for years, while all the assets/benefits/wealth have been accumulated in London S/E.

    Scotland pays Westminster £4Billion a year in debt repayments for monies not borrowed or spent in Scotland. Thatcher was taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland (secretly – ‘this must be kept secret’ written in her handwriting on the documents) One of her ministers resigned. Ian Lang, Foryth did the dirty deeds. Thatcher took the equivalent of £Billions from Scotland and shut down every manufacturing facility in Scotland. Closed the mines. Now coal is half the price of Gas Thatcher cancelled a pipe line wasting the equivalent of £Billions – approx the equivalent of £250Billion , including interest. Thatcher had the cheek to come to Scotland and say, ‘ We the English people are generous to you Scots’. Every word she uttered was a lie.

    Blair/Brown did the same took the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland for illegal wars, redundant weaponry, City of London bankers and tax evasion.

    Vote YES.

  164. Ken500 says:

    The Euro

    It doesn’t matter what currency is used. It is just a form of exchange. What is matters whether a country balances its books. Scotland does and has been in surplus for years. The surplus has been (secretly) taken away and squandered by Westminster for years, mainly to benefit London S/E.

    approx 27 countries use the Euro, some balance their books some (especially those who were borrowing exess monies on London lending markets) do not. All these countries have traditional low interest rates. ECB sets interest rates traditionally low. Each country decides it’s own interest rates.

    It’s not what name the currency is given, which is just a form of exchange (for goods and services) but whether the books are balanced. The Euro is good fo trade. Less red tape and exchange fees for business/people. London Banks receive large fees for currency exchange of the Euro etc. They have been illegally manipulating the Markets.

  165. Ken500 says:

    The Bay Roks must be taking it in turns. Trying to flog the auld Dug. Total media propaganda from the spin wizards. Izzy Lizzard. Let’s get busy.

    Don’t over do it girls/guys, you might or will be found out.

    Fifi the racist auld wo/man. What a combination.

  166. caz-m says:

    The Tories, Labour and the Lib/Dems are coming together today to say that they are really really serious about Scotland getting “substantial new powers” (BBC Scotland Brian Taylor’s words) if we vote NO.

    They actually think that we are going to take this bullshit in.

    All three Parties make you feel like a beggar.

    And why are the Lib/Dems getting an input into Scotland’s future, when UKIP, who will probably have a larger UK vote than them, are being kept out of any negotiations.

    Is it because UKIP have plans to take most powers away from the Scottish Parliament and they don’t want us to hear that side of the story.

    Vote YES and we Scots will decide for ourselves what direction and shape a Scottish Parliament will take.

  167. caz-m says:

    Looking good today for the Scottish Government and the Scottish people.

    Scottish economy on the up.

    Nicola Sturgeon setting up a “framework” for a Scottish Constitution.

    Alex Salmond will tell Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles that they will have a far greater say in the running of their Islands and will also get more financial support from Edinburgh after Independence.

  168. Ken500 says:

    Just don’t believe a word the BT troughing liars say. That will keep you right,

    That is why they hate the SNP so much. The SNP gov got into power in Holyrood and exposed all their lie with facts and figures, and publish them. Open Givernment. Go on to the Scottish Gov website. Search GERs. It’s all there. Unionists had secretly always been trying to hide.To demean Scotland and impoverish and deride it’s people.

    Westminster still tries to keep it’s balance sheet secret. Need FOI requests to try and find the answers to any questions. Secrecy, manipulation and lies to line Westminster and their associates pockets with £Million/Billions of Public monies. That Is why they join Unionist Parties and defraud Scotland.

  169. gerry parker says:

    @Xaracen at 9:45
    That was a cracker, very Sir Humphry, and exactly what we’ll be up against.


  170. manandboy says:

    Lord Reid of Cardowan on the Andrew Marr show

    More guddle-muddle from the Labour/unionist Establishment.

    We are to ‘balance the risks’

    If I asked my wife if there would be any risk in giving all our family money to the UK Treasury as a gift,
    I think the consequences for myself might be quite severe
    if not downright dangerous!

    Lord Reid wants Scotland to give up all the oil & gas wealth, and everything else, to the Uk Treasury as a gift.

    Weigh up the risk !

    Increases in the nuclear warheads stored on the Clyde.

    Weigh up the risks.

    Permanent attachment to a Tory government.

    1.6 trillion pound debt

    Ruled by the City of London super-wealthy elite who are running out of control on greed, fraud and corruption

    Trash democracy in Scotland

    More food banks

    More cuts in Scotlands’ pocket money in the Barnett payment.

    And more

    Weigh up the risks

    I’ll ask my dog – even he would tell me to vote Yes

    Weigh up the risk

  171. Liquid Lenny says:


    UN charter states that all new states CANNOT have debt on day one of Independence. The SNP’s plan is load us up with private casino British Empire bank debt on day one. And we the Scottish tax payer have to pay interest on that debt to the British Empire Banks.

    No its not, the SNP have never said they will take on British Debt. they have said clearly on many occasions that they will help service a fair share of that Debt which as I explained before will be minimal due to offset against assets.

    The idea that this is our fair share is nonsense as the debt belongs to Westminster policies of illegal serial wars, bailing out bankrupt British Empire banks and of course being paid as banker bonuses mainly in the City of London.

    I agree in principle however, being part of the Union means all of the above, that’s why we are trying to get out of it.

    British Empire Debt…NO THANKS.

    Our assets are Scotland and the people that live and have a connection here. For instance if we really need the rump-end of the Royal Navy for our security then just build the ships on the clyde. That would go along way to getting the unemployed back to work.

    LL Totally agree, that’s why we don’t want their physical assets but trade the value off against the debt.

    Get this: the whole asset story line is to sell the Scottish public the British Empire Debt Period.

    Why on earth having our own National Banking system, own currency risk anything with our biggest market RUK? Ireland hamstrung with the Euro has increased trade with UK year on year.

    LL It will cost hundreds of millions per year in additional costs if we don’t have a currency union. That will make our exports less competitive or our business will have to reduce their costs/profit. Note that I don’t think a currency union will be permanent. As our economy grows stronger it will be in our interests to either use our own currency or move to the Euro. This will take several years. The currency union is a temporary measure to ensure that business continues as normal whilst we revitalise our economy, then we can re-evaluate and implement whatever system is in our best interests.

    The key to trade and business it to actually make something someone else wants to buy.

    I dont see Norway or Switzerland jumping up and down to join the Euro to increase trade. No thanks, they will keep their Independence thank you very much.

    LL Agree but they have economies that are strong and have not been held back and hampered by being part of a bankrupt union. Lets walk before we start running.

    Of course the elephant in the room that the SNP will not tell you is that you do not have to pay interest on any debt at all. Why, because you can use the American Credit System and issue you currency straight from the Scottish Treasury at 0 per cent interest. If the UK government was to do this the UK would save the equivalent of the total NHS budget every year in interest paid to…. you guessed the British Empire Banks and speculators.

    LL Wrong, the SNP have said that they are not obligated to take the debt. that’s why they are not taking the debt, but offering to service the interest on a small part of it. The UK Government has already come out and said that it is responsible for 100% of the debt.

    The whole point of this YES vote is to protect the people from the casino bankrupt banks that have now adopted a Bail-in policy – causing “austerity” and destruction everywhere:

    LL Its a lot more than that actually.

    “Argentine Congressmen Tell U.S. Counterparts: Sovereignty Comes Before Speculators ”

    Our politicians will have to come up to speed sooner rather than later.

    The Yes Vote is the easy part.

    LL Agree our movement does not stop on Sept 18th, we must keep the momentum going and get the society that we want and a mirror of the current system of Government will not be accepted.

  172. manandboy says:
    The EY Scottish Item Club

    (The EY Scottish ITEM Club is an extension of the UK ITEM Club, focused entirely on the Scottish economy.

    The ITEM Club is the only economic forecasting group to use the HM Treasury model of the UK economy. )

    Ernst & Young – one of the Big Four accountancy firms
    responsible among others for setting up the offshore tax avoidance industry
    enabling wealthy individuals and companies to make profits in the UK but paying little or no taxes.
    Three cheers for the EY item Club. As if.

    But it warned that September’s referendum carried risks for the economy – whatever the result.

    “While a Yes vote would usher in an inevitable period of uncertainty”

    Another No company

    One man’s opportunity is another man’s uncertainty

    Yes = opportunity – positive view

    No = uncertainty – negative view

  173. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    Yes. I was at the Hamilton contest. I was a polling agent and at the count as a counting agent. It has indeed been a long road.

    I don’t think you understand how AS’s generous offer of a currency union and taking our share of the national debt completely unbalanced our enemy. And how their panicked refusal has done them more harm than almost anything else they have done.

    Can you imagine the onslaught we would have faced daily right across all the media had we said we would not share the national debt or had we said we would have our own currency (“ten sporrans to a tattieboggle, is it?”).

    We disarmed our enemy. Well done, Alex Salmond.
    And of course and independent Scottish Government, when we get there, can do exactly as it wishes.

  174. TJenny says:

    yabadabadoo – can I ask, are you a Green party supporter, perchance?

  175. manandboy says:

    What the No Campaign NEVER talk about

    The Yes Campaign should ALWAYS talk about

    The questions that are AVOIDED by NO
    Should ALWAYS be asked by YES

    Beginning with the truth about Oil & Gas
    – N Sea another 50 years
    – Atlantic Margins & Clyde basin 200years
    – 1999 sea border at Berwick onTweed moved 60 mls north
    to steal for England 6000 sq miles of North Sea
    containing 6 Scottish oil fields
    – Uk deficit 1.6 trillion pounds and rising
    Interest on debt 50 million pounds PER DAY
    – Scotland never gets the Government it votes for
    Democracy deficit

    – Scotland has no air or sea defences to protect offshore
    – Wealthy country but poor people
    Oil economy with food banks
    – Scotland is a country.
    We have rights to self-determination which are not being
    respected by UK Gov

    Vote YES

  176. Gary says:

    Cybernat, fears, smears, lies, exaggerations. Coming next? The Cybernat/Nazi slur will become Cybernat/Nazi/Terrorist. The poor soul with mental problems is being wheeled out to appeal his murder conviction at exactly the right time to make the link in the public mind – all they’re missing is some sort of threat or actual act to finally either postpone the vote or call its result into question.

  177. yabadabadoo says:

    David McEwen Hill

    AS is undoubtedly the best political tactician of our generation.

    I have been describing what needs to happen, not the best political tactics. I will leave that to AS.

    Whoever, I dont know what is in AS’s head. AS has always been very cosy with British Empire Banks (AS is ex RBS is he not?)

    We need to know what needs to happen for the commonweal of the Scottish people, and if the politicians stray off course… remind them who is sovereign.

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