You’ve Been Had
The picture editor of The Times must have been delighted with this gift.
But it’s a very accurate picture, and fairly used.
Partly because it’s scarcely believable that Swinney would have the brass neck to still be punting the same line he was punting TWENTY-FOUR YEARS AGO.
But also because at this point if you think Kate Forbes is any sort of saviour for either the SNP, the indy movement or women, you’ve been taken for every bit as big a mug as the gullible party loyalists who insist Swinney is going to turn things around.
Kate Forbes bottled out of the GRR vote in December 2022, even though she could have voted on it if she’d chosen to despite being on maternity leave. And in the leadership election three months later, she offered – unprompted – her support for both the draconian Hate Crime Act and the Scottish Government’s appalling “conversion practices” proposals.
In fact, as far as we can tell she’s done NOTHING to justify the faith that’s been placed in her by some gender-critical campaigners. (Perhaps some alert readers can use the comments to direct us to anything we’ve missed.)
So the idea that Forbes represents any sort of bulwark or beach-head against the SNP’s misogynist, homophobic, child-endangering “woke” factions is a wild fantasy. She’s bodyswerved every opportunity to oppose them, whether inside the cabinet or outside it, and repeatedly asserted her willingness to go along with their agenda.
With Forbes as DFM, the GRR will stay on the statute books hoping for the incoming Labour government to lift its veto – and even if they don’t, the conversion bill will seek to achieve the same ends by the back door, despite Hilary Cass’s warnings, also with Forbes’ express and unequivocal backing.
But by not actively disassociating herself from the idea that she’s a more moderate voice and allowing herself to be promoted as a new direction, Forbes has managed to secure ministerial office again, and the very considerable pay boost that comes from it.
(Her salary leapt by almost £55,000 last week, to £126,452, when she took on a small sliced-off fraction of the Finance Secretary’s brief, as well as becoming the Minister for Gaelic to fill in some of the yawning gaps in her diary. Swinney, meanwhile, enjoyed an increase of nearly £105,000 for stepping into the caretaker-FM role. Even for relatively well-off people like MSPs, let’s not underestimate what whopping sums those are.)
Forbes’ main impact on anything other than her own bank balance will be to continue to drive the setting up of Scotland’s “Green Freeports”, a very slightly tweaked Tory policy which other people are better placed to detail the horrors of than Wings is.
So last week’s events assure that not only is the SNP doomed for the next two years – something which was very much already baked in, and pretty openly acknowledged by the coronation of Swinney – but for the next seven at an absolute minimum.
Not only is the “new” leader there simply to mark time and absorb some defeats, but the NEXT one – whether it be Forbes or Stephen Flynn or (may God save us all) Mairi McAllan or Jenny Gilruth – will also do nothing to divert the party from its current road to self-destruction, and will very likely do that nothing from opposition.
(If any readers think we’re being overly gloomy, we simply invite them to name the current SNP M/SP – or even potential M/SP – who would bring about a change of direction. Joanna Cherry? She’s quite likely to be elected for another half-decade at Westminster later this year, and we already know she’s not willing to surrender her Westminster seat to run for Holyrood, so she’s not going to be First Minister any time soon. It’d need the SNP to change its rules, and why would either Swinney or the ambitious Forbes facilitate that?)
Even the most heroically optimistic and tirelessly positive people in the independence movement now accept what Wings told you when Humza Yousaf was elected SNP leader a little over a year ago – the last chance to avoid the cliff is now past.
Independence is now, at best, a project for the second half of the 2030s. And those people who’d at least like to spend the intervening years making things better rather than worse in Scotland – whether in terms of economic or social policy – have also been suckered by the tawdry deal between Swinney and Forbes.
No wonder they’re laughing.
Ever felt you’ve been cheated …
I fear all you say here is true.
My only hope is Alba , ISP and Independents for Independence gain enough seats in both elections to hold remainder of SNP to account and push for serious change.
If not then it’s a new generation of Independistas who will achieve Independence.
Scotland Free by (20)93!
Thanks for another well thought out piece that is heavy on facts. I can only agree with you 100%, even as a unionist I can see that this is a very unhealthy state of affairs, disenfranchising many people.
re Ms. Forbes, surely as a ‘committed Christian’ she should be honest? She lies by both omission and commission and if I was whoever is in charge of the Wee Frees I would be extremely pissed off.
Forbes and Yousef are both trained puppet actors of the anglo-american establishment:
Why would someone dedicated to Scottish independence ever join a group like this?:
link to en.wikipedia.org
And that’s some company Yousef keeps having participated in this Rockefeller creation (scroll to bottom of Europe table):
link to en.wikipedia.org
The SNP have just been a time wasting project for the past 10 years, if the green ports come to pass we’ll probably be given ‘independence’ in the 2030s because by that time there will be nothing of value outside of these ‘ports’ and we’ll all be digital serfs stuck in our 20 minute neighbourhood prisons anyway…
Bugger this for a pantomime.
I do wonder what Swinney, Yousaf, Flynn, Blackford and all the others hope to achieve by continuing to say that independence is “inevitable” or will happen “soon”, “within 5 years” etc. Everyone and their dog knows it isn’t and won’t, for all the reasons set out above (and others). For the persistent majority of the electorate who need to be convinced about independence, and who the above M/SPs say they want to reach out to and convince, repeatedly saying something which is so obviously not true undermines any claim they might have to credibility and makes them look like delusional imbeciles. They might as well claim the earth is flat or that it doesn’t rain in Scotland – it’s the same level of nonsense.
Stop making such claims, try to establish something approaching a competent government and then see where the land lies in 5-10 years’ time. Every single statement in the meantime about independence will just be counter-productive and won’t convince a single person who isn’t convinced already, and there aren’t nearly enough of the latter.
You tell it like it is – and this is exactly like it is. I agree, too, about, Forbes and Cherry. Neither is willing to face down the wokerati, and so, are useless to independence or for protecting children’s and women’s rights. Our sole hope is that they are ousted completely in 2026, but what will take their place? I am not as pessimistic about the future as you, Rev, because I believe that the culmination of events will lead to a huge shift in Scottish politics. What I am pessimistic about is what will happen after that. I think we are headed for a revolution in Scotland. That is what these people have consigned us to because of their own self-interest and their lack of any real commitment to Scotland. Not sure whether a third world war will come first or an uprising in Scotland, but both are on the cards. Stupid, self-interested people really are more dangerous than anything else.
The worst thing about all this is that there’s not even one MSP currently or on the horizon that has what it takes (a non nonsense nationalist who could take us of this shithole union) to galvanise the indy masses, a Michael Collins or John Connolly styled leader with grit and determination, and a bit of guile as well.
“Independence is now, at best, a project for the second half of the 2030s.”
I disagree.
Independence, like every other mass popular political movement, is no more than 2 to 3 years away from the people waking up, deciding that’s what they really want, and organising to bring it about.
New political movements are springing up all over Europe and the wider world. They take but a handful of years to go from fringe outliers to mainstream power, either by themselves or as parts of coalitions.
I will never believe that Scotland lacks the fundamental capability to do what lots of other countries are doing right now.
If Scotland really wants Indy, there’s no insurmountable obstacle standing in our way.
Can’t argue with any of that. The signs are all there to see, and have been for some time.
For wider society, it’s just how much damage they will do.
Any chance of a further vote is gone.
For those who would have been swayed by having competent politicians, everything touched collapsed into wreckage. Not just for us, but for generations to come.
The societal reforms being pushed through have more in line with abuse scandals of previous decades than genuine embracing of minority groups.
Words fail, when you see every opportunity corrupted and chance squandered for your own country.
Hopefully, some other scandal will bring them down. Sadly, they will probably limp on (although the troughers will see all this as a success for continuity) until the next election. Hopefully, they will get well beaten into the wilderness. Again, sadly they will still have a core support, falling for independence lines and vitriol against rivals and Westminster, making them dangerous for years to come.
“no wonder they’re laughing”
I had a chat with God this morning, we were discussing other things on a different thread – Old Testament stuff, and it tells me they’ll be laughing on the other sides of their two skelped faces (Both of their two faces two faces) when their turn comes to be judged
If they’d seen the look on the face of God I saw this morning they’d be running off to a nunnery or a monastery or both to live simple lives of solitude with daily helpings of self-flagellation (and not for the fun of it either) and foostie cold porridge in penance for their deceit agin ther ain fowk an in the forlorn hope o’ savin’ ther sowels.
The Almighty seemed particularly angry with KF – I’m not entirely sure why, though.
sick of hearing that these 2 are puppets (marionettes) they are no way this, they’re glove puppets ( or maybe Gove) with the establishments hand up their erses.
Just imagine what they would be saying if they had 8 mandates whoohoo .
Swinney on BBC Radio Shortbread this morning.
“When asked what he would say to those who believe that Scottish Government policies threaten the rights of women and girls, he said: “I want to do nothing that threatens the safety of women and girls, and I will do nothing to threaten the safety of women and girls.””
But remember Swinney commented a few days back that his party and the Greens and BLiS are still chomping at the bit to implement the GRRB, the SNP government appealed against a Westminster decision to block the GRRB spending thousands of pounds of taxpayers cash in the process.
The SNP government would NEVER take the English government to court with Scottish independence in mind.
Listen to what Swinney says then watch what he does.
Has any journalist asked Kate Forbes to define what a woman is and if they can have a penis?
Does her Christian religion believe God would create someone in the wrong body?
It really does seem that she is putting personal financial gain above her principles (if she has any!).
Another huge disappointment.
None of these countries are the enemy of Scotland, our enemies are the English government, its security services, and the plethora of House Jocks that make a good living out of keeping Scotland under the jackboot of Westminster.
Wars that Scots fight in, are English wars we make enemies of other countries fighting for the English government and its forces, why make enemies to further English hegemony around the globe.
link to archive.is
“RISHI Sunak has mentioned “Scottish nationalists” in a major speech about the “extremist” threats facing the UK.”
As Salvo keep telling us (also Robin McAlpine in his recent interview by Alex Salmond), we need to bypass Parliamentary processes and create a peoples’ movement.
That the SNP project for the past decade has been to make us powerless and scunnered is an obstacle to this, but the situation is not irredeemable.
We need to start NVDA tactics and they have to be aimed at inconveniencing politicians, not ordinary people.
U.K. media showing up the Tory Request to forget all about the last 14 years but focus on a brave new Tory world coming to you in the near future.
It also has to be noted that Labour has been able to lay a glove on them.
If Labour can’t even hold them to account on 14 years of corruption and incompetence
what chance of them being able to run the country.
Labour wiped out the treasury last time in power and put the country is serious debt by not regulating the Banks and from their new schools and hospitals costing £50 Billion to construct and £305 Billion with interest.
Never forget Gordon Brown. The man who sold off our gold reserves before the price tripled.
We have him to thank for ending Final Salary Pensions too.
Laborious would be a better party name for them.
The sheer fact Cherry will stand for these assholes again and make no positive change just shows that she too is far more interested in easy money than making a difference. The SNP is completely fucked.
“In fact, as far as we can tell she’s done NOTHING to justify the faith that’s been placed in her.”
Stu was talking about Kate Forbes–but the same could be said about Alba’s Swinney-voting Ash Regan.
«Scottish nationalists are even trying to tear OUR United Kingdom apart»
YOUR United Kingdom, mr Sunak.
Glad to be extremist!
Bankruptcy can’t come quick enough for these incompetent, troughing, pound-shop, bargain bucket excuses for elected representatives.
Indy for Scotland!
SNP Out!
Isn’t it current prison policy to allow a trans woman (male, self identifying as woman) into a woman’s prison?
Makes a liar of Swi (redacted)
Och, how depressing.
It makes me sick to the core how the SNP has gone from the highs of 2014 to its utter destruction now.
Infiltrated by brit nat secret service agents, but worryingly, the freeloading, fat, policy and principle abandoning parcel of rougues in a nation elected officials.
This will go down as the worst betrayal in our history since 1707.
Never thought id say or even think this,… but,… those in the SNP are ther same as those who betrayed William Wallace!
They don’t mean true independence since they want to join the EU and remain in NATO. It’s to be a pretendy, fearty sort of nominal independence; it makes no sense except as a sort of quasi-racist cry of “sod off” at the English.
Really the whole thing is beyond a joke: devolution showed the calibre of twerps that a parliament in Edinburgh will attract. Stop the bollocks; instead see if you can make the UK function better.
How many mandates for Scottish independence has the SNP had since 2014?
Hope the 30 pieces of silver were worth it, Katie.
Independent in 5 years…that means establishing the administrative and fiscal infrastructure requisite to a sovereign state which brings the matter round to that business of CURRENCY once again.
The dissolution procedure of a unitary state requires a good deal of forward planning, basically who gets what of the joint assets and a preparedness to fight for a just share.
The notion going around in London is that Scotland, basically a poor supplicant, will get the debt but no right to any joint assets which England by some divine right of «ownership» would be entitled to keep, and that could include military bases which with the backing of the US and Nato might become very hot chestnuts indeed.
It is unlikely the Scotland-England case will end in velvet divorce. There are plenty in the English establishment who would see Scotland in hell were «secession» to be actually accomplished.
Is there anyone in the nationalist camp ready for a fight as it does seem the opposition in choice of language is gearing up for one?
I agree that there is no one within the SNP who is capable of getting Scotland out of the situation it is in now. So what if we look outside the SNP?
I am taking the following gentleman’s name in vain here, but I think, e.g. Tommy Sheridan standing against Humza Yousaf as an Independence supporting independent candidate would stand a very good chance of taking the constituency. Humza Yousaf doesn’t live in the constituency any more so why would I vote for him? (That is leaving aside all the other reasons I would not vote for him). Sheridan is well known in the constuency for historical reasons and he is a very good speaker. I know he has had some run-ins with the law but, maybe I am being paranoid, could the hand of the British Establishment been involved?
My point is, there must be some scunnered individuals in Scotland who would make good local candidates for the Scottish Government. I would love to have someone on a ballot paper that I could vote for.
The SNP’s allegiance is not to the Scots. It lies elsewhere – a good deal of it only to itself and those who lead it.
I’ve been reading btl comments for a wee while now and I know many on here have been reading, and posting, comments far longer than I have.
But I have yet to see a single idea, just one, here or anywhere else, that presents the union between Scotland and England in a favourable light – favourable to the Scots anyway. We all know it favours England very well indeed.
Are there any benefits to Scotland’s participation in in such a one-sided ‘union’? Any at all?
If there are, why haven’t those who favour such a union set them down clearly and called them out so those who are sceptical might be swayed to support their view?
Genuine question, Stu: if everything is now so hopeless, why keep the site going? Seriously.
“Genuine question, Stu: if everything is now so hopeless, why keep the site going? Seriously.”
Because the fight’s been going on for over 300 years, and we don’t just quit when it gets tough. We tried that once and people wanted us back.
I wonder why Alex Salmond, joanna cherry, or any of the Scottish independence parties has not made a legal challenge to the SNP, on the basis of the SNP having had many mandates given to them by the Scots for Scottish independence in their past manifestos,
Because under Scots law Legal obligations can arise in certain cases, as a result of a promise or undertaking,
Mandates promises to the voters by a corporation are no different,
Couldn’t understand the fuss when Forbes was made Deputy FM. She would talk about anything else except Indy when she run for the leadership. The Rev is correct, we are fucked as far as Indy is concerned for god knows how many years.
Andrew
Ignored says:
13 May, 2024 at 1:49 pm
I do wonder what Swinney, independence will just be counter-productive and won’t convince a single person who isn’t convinced already, and there aren’t nearly enough ..
I agree with half of that. That independence is not possible at present being but you seem to think Andrew, that the SNP leadership are actually interested in achieving it. That’s bordering on the delusional. The SNP leadership know what they are doing and it is not trying win our Independence.
As for the numbers. The pro Independence support in Scotland stands around 50%. What percentage of Scots born do you think supports Independence? I’d say it is above that 50%. That is where the hope surely lies for the future even in these time of mass immigration. That is if we can return a competent political party to power that is serious in achieving it.
Johns 5 years…is that 5 years from now… 5 years after General Election?..5 years from Next Holyrood election?
The world will be a different place in 5 months let alone 5 years but John knows that already. Cue Starmer walking into Downing Street, no big bad Tories to squirrel blame at anymore, and Sarwar biding his time for a run at Bute House.
We are, to quote the brothel-keeper, absolutely F*cked!
Northcode,
Indeed all those in the devolved government do, it can be found in the UK legislation, The (Scotland) Act 1998.
Here is another little snippet from that said” Scotland Act,
Section 99:
Rights and liabilities of the Crown in different Capacities,
Section 99 provides for legal relations to arise between the Crown in Right of her Majesties Government in the UK and the Crown in Right of the Scottish Administration.
It provides that rights and liabilities may arise between the Crown in different Capacities by Virtue of Contract,
By operation of Law or by virtue of an enactment, and that property and liabilities can be tranferred between them as if they were subjects,
So the Crown of the UK gains access to Scotland through the devolved government administration?
I used to rate Joanne Cherry. I used to believe she’d be the saviour of the SNP. I used to think she’d make life difficult for the leadership. I used to think she’d fight red in claw against the homophobic wokerati self-id brigade. I used to think she was for Independence to her bones. I used to hope she would defend women and children with every fibre of her being. I used to be naive. Now I know that like all the others she’s just in it for the money. So sad.
Northcode.
Another snippet Qoute from the Scotland Act 1998
Parliamentary Considerations,
“Section 99 ensures that the two general Manifestations of the Crown, as the UK government and as the Scottish Administration, are placed in the same relationship to each otheras they would be if they were not the Crown, but two subjects,”
I still remember the avoidance of a vote on the GRRB by Kate Forbes whilst another MSP on maternity leave did manage to vote. So no disagreement from me on the above political analysis. I will adopt a minority stance on the issue of Freeports (aka Greenports) at Cromarty in particular. A fair bit of Cassandra btl comments on this issue. Undeservedly so. One of the main acts of economic vandalism during the Sturgeon era was the complete omission of a stake in the Supply Chain for offshore wind technology. Cromarty will go part of the way to redress this lack of indigenous capability. The success or otherwise of Freeports will be easily monitored. The Quayside and Port infrastructure at Cromarty should be complete within 2 years. The number of created jobs will be visible. 100s of millions of inward investment promised already. Scotland cannot transition from oil and gas to offshore renewable technologies without the facilities, stake in the supply chain and the indigenous capability. Those of you that remember McDermotts in the 1970s and the wealth generated by jobs on Cromarty Firth and hinterland will get a Freeport is a means to enable our local supply chain stake.
When the vote was put to the people of Scotland for a devolved government, they left all that crap out and omitted details of what Scots were voting for,
Even so, I presume now that we know that the UK crown and government are one and the same as the Scottish devolved government administration it would be difficult to for the UK government to concoct a new treaty with the uK government and the UK government, not actually a treaty with Scotland or a Scottish parliament,
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Wee Free-port Forbes is going to find this embrace will be deadly for her career.
@PB, the second link to the IVLP has someone called Wee Kim Wee who sounds like a shoo in for the SNP/Greens.
Scotland is in an awfy state due to these muppets, but at least Swinney’s transition into Dr Bunsen Honeydew is almost complete…
Ask a stupid question, what is it that gives Free Ports a bad rep around these parts?
Genuinely interested.
James Che
“So the Crown of the UK gains access to Scotland through the devolved government administration?”
It would appear so from the legalese you quote, James. You’ll know better than I.
I don’t really understand legal speak. I find it interesting, but I don’t understand its convolutions and its strange, unintuitive language.
This bit:
“provides for legal relations to arise between the Crown in Right of her Majesties Government in the UK and the Crown in Right of the Scottish Administration.”
Reads to me as the Scottish Administration, as an extension of Her Majesties Government, is one and the same as Her Majesties Government.
And therefore, Her Majesties Government provides for legal relationships as regards to Scotland with itself – excluding the Scots.
I know my interpretation is most likely wrong – but that’s how it reads to me.
George Ferguson;
You should watch the videos on ‘Through a Scottish Prism’ featuring experts such as Alf Baird and others. ‘Freeports’ are going to be an unmitigated disaster (no worker’s rights, everything sold do multinationals, the undermining of regulations on fracking etc) and will block any hopes of Scotland achieving independence for at least 25 years. Probably all part of the plan.
Northcode @3:41pm
> Are there any benefits to Scotland’s participation in in such a one-sided ‘union’? Any at all?
Freedom of movement. Probably the one and only item on the list.
James Che
“…now that we know that the UK crown and government are one and the same as the Scottish devolved government administration…
I posted my previous comment before reading your latest comment. It seems I might have been right in my layperson’s interpretation. I think…
It just shows how many shitebags are in that party.
They are all toast in the next election. You’d think some of them would have jumped ship to Alba by now. It’s not like they have anything to lose.
The SNP are tainted and must be left to die as a party. They will not be missed.
“So the Crown of the UK gains access to Scotland through the devolved government administration?”
There is no crown of the UK, only the English crown and the Scottish crown, both are utterly incompatible with each other, multiple English governments have used access to the Scottish crown (office) to steal Scotland assets, the jist of the matter is that by accessing (stealing) our assets via the Scottish crown (office) it is seen as a form of caretaking rather than stealing.
For the sake of my mental health, I’m going to stop reading WOS.
Rev, thank you so much for what you have done since 2012, your articles, analysis and the wonderful Wee Blue Book (and the black one).
It’s no wonder that you are still the highest viewed blog, you’ve proved the others wrong and predicted this sithole that Nicola’s NuSNP was heading and people refused to listen.
Independence is dead for me, I know now, I will never get another chance to vote YES, I will never forget, the teardrops spilling on my ballot paper that asked “Should Scotland be an independent Nation”?.
To mark that box YES…What a fuckin feeling it was and now it’s a memory that is gathering dust, the whole YES movement is no more but a lingering memory, kept alive by the determined few who keep it in the public counciouness.
The Scotland of today is a dystopian nightmare and the wrong people are the politicians, even with the ones, you think have integrity let you down even more, Joanne Cherry for one.
As I say Rev, THANK YOU SO MUCH for being a true voice for Scotland and I wish you all the very best for the future.
Rev wrote: “Independence is now, at best, a project for the second half of the 2030s. And those people who’d at least like to spend the intervening years making things better rather than worse in Scotland – whether in terms of economic or social policy – have also been suckered by the tawdry deal between Swinney and Forbes.”
Well, that’s me out, i’m not prepared to waste my time and efforts on here (or anywhere else for that matter) learning what i already know, how bad the SNP are, while my life moves on.
I will return to the cause when/if a serious movement to further our cause appears. I can only take so much negativity and i’ve well and truly surpassed that point. Even a project to boycott Westminster General Elections would be a positive step in the right direction. Inform the public.
Meanwhile, you only get one life. There are no trial runs.
Take care, Troops.
Indy groups should print and distribute that photo of Forbes and Swinney with the caption: –
“and they STILL think we’re an independence party!”
I have asked this question elsewhere with no response,it is a very serious question, can any of our legal eagles or professional members of the legal fraternity e.g Robbie Dunlop or Gordon Dangerfield inform us what the legal position is regarding impeaching this shower of deviants and perverts for willfully ignoring the mandate they proposed and were duly elected on and yet have failed utterly and completely to bring to fruition their promised policies
Would it be possible to crowdfund an action by the SOVEREIGN people of Scotland in court to forcibly remove these lying troughing scum for their abject failure to govern Scotland properly and responsibly
Surely our forebears having had the prescient presence to include the Claim Of Right in the Scottish constitution must have also forseen a possibility that we would be governed by a cabal of deviant incompetent perverts who mistake ineptitude for a challenge
Surely our forebears would have included some act or law that would enable a reasonable percentage of Sovereign Scots horrified by the wanton gross ineptitude of our governance to seek forcible removal of the miscreants
I refuse to believe that this ongoing lunacy can only be stopped via the ballot box or a revolution
PB 1.40pm
“Forbes and Yousef are both trained puppet actors of the anglo-american establishment:”
Exactly right. I’d add another actor to that partnership too.
Until American colonialism is over & both are turfed out of the security council, this will continue & Holyrood will serve only the interests of others.
https://www.ft.com › content › 122cdc16-7435-4c7b-85e1-09cd10c1ab7a
Business and politicians wary of UK plan for low-tax trade zones
Chancellor Rishi Sunak has been warned that his plans for 10 low-tax “freeports” in the UK could drain investment from other parts of the country and become a magnet for money laundering.
link to rusi.org
Basically we now have an openly devolution party called the SNP.
I’ll vote only for an independence party.
More generally, light touch regulation will be the norm for Freeports.
Such regulation already has had catastrophic effects in the UK.
@Andy h
“They are all toast in the next election.”
Not quite all. Here is the daily excess reporting what latest polling suggests.
Butter side down.
link to scottishdailyexpress.co.uk
You can be pretty sure that where and when Scottish independence is referred to as “Indy”, that there is not a rat’s chance of any intention to actually support it’s realization from the party in question.
Craig 5.52
Don’t despair Craig. I know it’s hard. Plenty downers lately.
Salvo and Liberation.scot are on the case setting up a true liberation movement with over 10,000 members and riding. Read the websites and join the blog Yours for Scotland.
The SNP and Alba are Westminster parties. They are unlikely to get us independence despite the fact all they need do is get a majority of Westminster seats.
The ISP is an abstentionist party, support them, join Salvo. Read Doun Hauden by Alfred Baird.
@Tw@thater
Impeachment is not a thing in the English/Scottish legal system, so the process you describe wouldn’t go anywhere; it is impossible.
I can’t believe you haven’t been told this before. However, as you’ve now got the definitive answer could you pls stop asking.
Twathater says: “Surely our forebears having had the prescient presence to include the Claim Of Right in the Scottish constitution …”
Correction: There is not, and never was, a “Scottish constitution.”
And since it doesn’t exist and never existed (except in your imagination), the rest of your post is meaningless garbage.
@Mitch 7.09pm
Anyone really paying attention would already know that folk like Roddy Dunlop have already poured cold water on a lot of the “cunning plans for indy” codswallop. It doesn’t really seem to make any difference. Too many people are incredibly invested in the idea that there’s a silver bullet which will magically bypass the need for a referendum or plebiscitary elections.
The sad thing is, they’ve somehow convinced themselves that they’ve got lots of support and are on to a sure thing.
You can fool some of the people all of the time….
Andy Anderson, I typed out that liberation.scot address and got nothing but a blank black page.
Asked on the BBC’s Good Morning Scotland programme if a transwoman is a woman, Mr Swinney ventured: “I believe a woman is an adult female born as a woman, and I also accept that transgender women are defined as women.”
It’s leadership, Jim, but not as we know it.
Logically, if transgender men, sorry women, are defined as women, and Swinney is dedicated to supporting transgender rights, then he can also claim:
“I will do nothing to threaten the safety of women and girls”.
What we see here is a master class in the use of weasel words to fool the gullible. It’s impressive in the same way that a con artist who has been fleecing people of their life savings for decades is impressive.
What I just can’t understand is what terrible thing would happen if Swinney just said “Look, Guys aren’t gals, it’s a daft idea, we got carried away, but now we intend to get real”.
What exactly is he, and everybody around him, so scared of?
What ghastly fate awaits the first professional politico to break ranks on this?
“Joanna Cherry? She’s likely to be elected for another half-decade at Westminster later this year, and we already know she’s not willing to surrender her Westminster seat to run for Holyrood”
Cherry is the biggest fraud of all in the SNP, bigger than the likes of Swinney and Forbes.
She has done ZERO for independence since becoming an SNP MP and will do ZERO if elected for another five years.
“Independence is now, at best, a project for the second half of the 2030s.”
More likely the 2630s.
Lorna Campbell
13 May, 2024 at 1:50 pm
“I think we are headed for a revolution in Scotland.”
A revolution in Scotland?
Scots have never been as spineless in their history as they are now.
Scots who defied the might of Thatcher can’t even prevent men with penises invading every women space possible.
Children in primary schools are being indoctrinated with the perverts’ paedophile agenda while the spineless or brainless parents look on.
Perhaps you are talking about the coming paedohile revolution and the perverts’ charter?
Craig
says:
13 May, 2024 at 5:52 pm
For the sake of my mental health, I’m going to stop reading WOS.
Take care Craig. Not a bad thing to take a break from the unending bad news. Hopefully, see you back at some point.
We have to wipe the slate clean. It is obvious.
Maybe half of the SNP voters now recognize this necessity.
Even that is a big change but it is not enough. It is not enough for that half to simply ‘not vote’.
To truly wipe the Sturgeon SNP out, that half have to actively vote for whatever candidate is best placed to defeat the SNP, tactically vote against the SNP.
It does not matter who that is, it really doesn’t, because they too will be gone when the ALBA, SNP2.0 or whatever newly manifested Independence Party takes their place, one election cycle later
For fundamental new growth to come through and survive and thrive, first you need the forest fire.
Not superficial change like Sturgeon to Yousless to Swinney to Forbes to blah blah blah…
Fundamental change. Burn them down. And keep burning them down.
I could be a millionaire in 5 years. The world could end in 5 years. Scotland could win the world cup in 5 years.
There are loads of things that could be. The problem is SNP followers believe this shit.
Is Roddy Dunlop a constitutional lawyer now?
Or an international lawyer?
No, he’s not.
He can’t pour cold water on anything.
A sovereign country, in a treaty, can leave anytime it deems fit to do so.
Serfs seeking to bow to their imaginary masters will never find a solution, especially one that threatens their own title. Do turkeys vote for Christmas?
We have our own KC. Fat lot of fucking good she was too. Announcing only AFTER international opinion did she come out to confirm the SNP had taken the unprecedented option NOT to include oral argument & evidence.
I think we can dispense with his majesty’s loyal subjects for offering indy advice. They see his Maj as their employer & serve a foreign country.
Dr Benway
It works for me the access to Salvo and Liberation.Scot
The site is attacked all the time but it is there. If you are having trouble contact Salvo via their site. I have a vpn so maybe that is the issue but I doubt it.
@Mac 8.55pm
Preach brother! Much as I share the ultimate aim (Ceterum autem censeo SNP esse delendam …..and all that!) isn’t it more likely that at least in the short to medium term the best we can hope for is to deny the SNP or SNP/Greens a functioning majority of pro indy support?
In truth that’s all we need, right? We’ve seen that there is a core of SNP support that is slavishly loyal. They’re not just going to disappear overnight given the political and personal capital they have invested.
It’s easy to get disillusioned and I see the logic of the OP: we just have to hope that enough folk abandon the SNP & Greens to give other pro-indy parties the balance of power in 2026 elections. If not, we may be in for the long haul.
I don’t think they do.
The SNP voters are yoons & the gender mob
Swinney doesn’t need to wait five years. He already has multiple mandates & a current one in both parliaments.
He chooses not to use them.
There’s no further evidence needed that the SNP is finished spouting pish about mandates & independence & we can leave out the stronger voice in Westminster pish too..lol
They’ve been well & truly busted & unfortunately for them Scotland doesn’t need a fourth unionist party.
@ Dr Benway at 7.51: I just googled liberation.scot and it came up OK.
link to montrealgazette.com
This is the fate of most national parties when they stay in power too long. You only get a few years to deliver your objective. Then things change and the movement disintegrates. It’s a generational thing.
The SNPs chance for independence was 2016 to 2020. They blew it!
The demographics have changed in Quebec, much like they are now doing in Scotland.
Time is always the enemy.
Sam @ 6.44pm
Polls are a guide to the estimate % each party is on at that time. That will translate to expected number of seats via an algorithm.
However, a study of ACTUAL GE results in Scotland reveals some interesting stats.
The first thing of note is that when the number of votes for a party closes in on 1 Million, there is a rapid increase in ratio of seats/votes, increasing at a rate of 1 seat per 25K votes, starting at 40 seats and 40% of the vote.
From 900K to 700K the brutality of FPTP sets in as 40 seats won at the top end reduce to 6 at around 700K, around 25% of the vote.
Only 1 party* (19 recent results) has won more than 7 seats with less than 750K votes.
It seems a stretch to think SNP will get that many votes so even the 13-18 seats in the recent polls you’ve linked to may be an over-estimate. If Lab get 1M+ votes, SNP is likely to be annihilated.
*Lib-Dem have bucked the trend on 4 occasions as their vote tends to be concentrated in particular areas, and they may do relatively well in the GE, adding to SNP woes.
I am not voting Labour, Tory, nor Liberal. I am voting Anti-SNP.
Whoever you vote for make it an anvil, upon which to hammer the Sturgeon SNP.
Good things will come out of it for the Independence movement. Chaos is our friend… especially versus two years of John Sturgeon Swinney.
I’m just not voting, and that will be the SNPs downfall. I have no party or reason to vote for.
Turnout of yes voters will be halved.
Voting for a unionist party to batter the SNP will not have the affect indy supporters think.
Sending yoons to Westminster will only permit the new Act of Union to be implemented unopposed through parliament to lock us in. It’s just waiting in the background for Scots yoons to be voted into power.
Vote ISP for abstention or an independent.
I’d also add Alba but unless they abstain from WM then they’re just another waste of everyone’s time & are not serious about independence or the contempt we are shown there. They’ll achieve hee-haw in that place but be another weekly embarrassment. Been there, bought the t-shirt. Ten wasted years & not even a bit of Devo for effort.
The whole of Scotland should just abstain from voting for all the good it does.
@ twathater at 6.23
This article explains, in a rather laboured way, that governments are not under any legal obligation to fulfil their manifestos:
link to archive.ph
Labour was taken to court in 2008 about one of their promises in 2005, and the complainant lost.
The article concludes:
Campbell Clansman said;
“Correction: There is not, and never was, a “Scottish constitution.”
And since it doesn’t exist and never existed (except in your imagination), the rest of your post is meaningless garbage.”
Correcting your ignorant correction: Scotland’s constitution is perfectly real and under a formal guarantee of its continued authority in Scotland as an unyielding condition of ratification of the Treaty of Union. You know, the one that founded the Union and its parliament at Westminster. You must have heard of it, surely!
And since both parliaments did ratify that Treaty along with that condition, the obligation is binding on Westminster and on the Union.
It appears at the end of Article XXV as an addendum, known as the Tenor, which means an exact legal copy, and cites Scotland’s famous 1689 Claim of Right, passed by Scotland’s Convention of the Estates, which itemised several aspects of Scotland’s constitution, presenting formal justification for firing King James VIIth for breaching that very constitution. And he wasn’t the first or the last to feel its legal teeth chomping on his arse!
And just for your delectation, CC, there is no such Treaty-based guarantee for England’s non-existent constitution.
Xaracen
Take a standing ovation from me.. bravo!
Excellent post!
@ Xaracen: great post.
We have to give up on the old political parties and get right behind Liberation/Salvo, the independent parliamentary candidates, and ISP.
Liberation has over 10,000 members already, and a very active body of people investigating different matters [constitution, international law, freeports] and disseminating their findings. If we all do something to spread the word and email our Councillors/MSP/MP from time to time then the cause will be won.
Just don’t give up completely, Craig and Stoker – do a little to help as and when you can.
I think he misspoke. He meant to say, “Scotland could have been independent within the last five years if our failure to act hadn’t prevented it.”
WM were asked to recognise and agree to Scotland’s ‘ Claim of Right’ by Blackford and Co in 2018. Not one of them disputed it.
Why the SNP then begged for a Section 30, is beyond my ken. After they had just agreed sovereignty rested with the Scottish people.
But then again , whoever Kens what the SNP say and do.
“Xaracen: Scotland’s constitution is perfectly real ….”
No, it isn’t.
You can claim some 1689 act, or for that matter, a banana, is a “Scottish Constitution,” but that doesn’t make the act, or the banana, a Constitution.
You can claim 2 + 2 = 5, or 17, but that doesn’t make it so.
But if you take the 1689 Act as a Constitution, you must therefore also believe Scotland’s fundamental law prohibits Catholics holding public office, having mass in public, or even publishing books. Because all that (and much more) is part of the 1689 Act.
You really embarrass your cause by making these absurd and anti-historical claims.
I find this website informative and entertaining, however this does not mean I agree with it!
I think the biggest obstacle to independence, which frankly I would currently vote against, is that the all the parties in the SG have shown themselves to be secondraters that would struggle to run a local jumble sale.
I used to think Salmond was a really good politician in his day but now realise that it wasn’t that he was good but more that the rest of them were simply even more incompetent than even was!
I don’t think any of the parties are up to the job and now have another two years of “continuity” of the same shit as before to look forward to, why on earth are folks till clinging to the discredited strugeonite agenda even now? I despair
Big Jock
Could that be because the imbecile brought it to parliament on a free afternoon just to whine & look busy? Lol
A bit like free Friday afternoons at school when you could bring in a toy to kill the afternoon until home time.
Nothing important was happening. No earth shattering lessons. Nothing of legal standing.
It’ll explain why everyone else was in the bar that day when squeaky toy stood up.
SNP has never legally challenged parliament that I know of. I don’t count the supreme court because that wasn’t presented correctly either. It was thrown together with no Scottish constitutional lawyer, no one having a clue on the treaty of Union, no oral argument & with the get out clause they didn’t need to recognise the result which is even against international law.
I’ve just listened to a week of the UN discussions over those who cannot be mentioned on here & not once did some roaster stand up to say “I hope they have permission!” “I sure hope they have 70%+!” “Do they have a section 30?” or the most important questions of all.. “Do they have a plan & what currency will they use” “ach, I’d vote but I don’t like *insert politicians name* so I’ll no bother,ta” LOL
The Claim of Right & treaty of Union needs presenting outside of a domestic setting. With both representatives present & with an unbiased independent adjudicator. Scotland never relinquished her Sovereignty or her territory so even basic common sense tells us we don’t need a foreign country’s permission or blessing to leave it. Sovereign nations end treaties whenever they want to.
The duds we have in Westminster aren’t interested in ending it. It’s been completely captured under Sturgeon.
“The Claim of Right is an Act passed by the Convention of the Estates, a sister body to the Parliament of Scotland (or Three Estates), in April 1689. It is one of the key documents of United Kingdom constitutional law and Scottish constitutional law.
It was affirmed by an Act of the Scottish Parliament of 1703. The Act was retained by the Parliament of the United Kingdom after the Acts of Union 1707.
Some fud on the internet – “naw it wisnae. That’s anti historical”
Strewth! We’ve a real genius amongst us LOL Must’ve gone to the same revisionist school as Neil Oliver.
Geri, there was an act passed in 1689 by the Convention of Estates (NOT Parliament) labeled the “Claim of Right.”
It isn’t a Constitution. Never was intended by its authors to be one. Never was submitted TO THE VOTERS for approval, as Constitutions usually are. It doesn’t even have the word “Constitution” in it.
Try again.
Here you go CC, Christine Graham will explain it to you.
link to youtube.com
Not that you’re gonna watch it, obviously, because you already know you’re wrong.
one look at Kate Forbes wiki page tells you she is a member of the British-America Project along with Anas Sarwar. Appears to be a neo con project.
Forbes has careerist written all over her. She will do or say whatever is needed to assist her career. Scotland? Independence? Nah. No wonder she’s laughing her socks off.
As for Swinney – well, let’s be kind and refer to him as ‘pension boost John’. Due to step down, but hey, what about a nice wedge of over a hundred grand between now and then eh?
Ay what point will the few remaining, deluded SNP supporters sniff the coffee, wake up, and catch on to the fact these people are making fools of them. Behind closed doors the SNP hierarchy fret about elections, but then remember, no matter how daft or appalling their policies, all they need do, is make some very vague comment about ‘independence soon’, and the gullible SNP faithful vote for them.
So angry at what the SNP has become – a party of careerist nobodies, with no hope, no vision and ZERO ambition for Scotland. The last thing they want is independence, because, well, to put it simply, they are all doing rather well with the way things are. Cha-ching!! I mean, you can almost hear them say it, ‘the dosh is good, so independence can wait another five years…’
I respect REV STU’s view on indy, but think things may move sooner than 2030. In politics, it is quite astonishing how quickly change can come.
As for John Swinney, well he owes Alex Salmond an awful lot. A great deal. If he or the SNP are at all serious about independence, then it is ALBA and NOT the awful gender obsessed ‘greens’ that they should be doing deals with. The question is, does Swinney have the balls to fix things? I very, very much doubt it. He failed as leader before, so he will fail again. A boring uninspiring man. Perhaps he should have been a lion tamer instead.
Geri at 2am,
Yes, you are quite correct, and the claim of right is indeed enshrined within the act of union of 1707. On several occasions that claim of right has been re-asserted both within Scotland and Westminster. It is beyond ANY doubt.
Those on here who try to assert it has no place in the Scottish constitution are gobsh*tes. It is an English unionist/colonialist tactic of FUD, fear uncertainty, doubt.
The legal status of the Scottish claim of right is beyond question, and those who say it isn’t are really just trolls and sh*t-stirrers. Obvious b*ll*cks.
Xaracen at 1047pm, EXACTLY. Very well said. Indeed, I often think, it is ENGLAND which has NO constitution at all – just some made-up nonsense about ‘conventions’ and ‘established practice’.
Don’t engage trolls – because that is exactly what they feed on.
For a laugh, I googled “how many countries have been created since 1703”.
The short answer is, of course, most of them. For the long answer, try:
link to en.wikipedia.org
But, sticking with the short answer, other nations and countries have become independent by simply deciding to do so, and getting a solid majority of their citizens to all agree it’s a good idea.
They didn’t require ancient bits of parchment, and endless arguments around what the few dozen or so titled noblemen, royalty and ecclesiastic ciphers meant hundreds of years ago (hint: ordinary people were completely beneath consideration, so were never intended to be relevant).
I’d focus on making a solid case for Indy and getting a solid democratic mandate for it, like every other “normal” country in the world. Or just take up arms.
Believe me, either route will be easier and quicker in the end.
“I have here a 300 YO bit of parchment which says you have to step down from power, control, wealth and privilege, and let me take your place” says no sane person in the history of the world.
@ Robert Louis says: 14 May, 2024 at 7:12 am
“The legal status of the Scottish claim of right is beyond question, and those who say it isn’t are really just trolls and sh*t-stirrers”
Plenty of regular posters on here, including Geri, whooping with joy at the demise of the international rules-based order.
That’s fine, but you can’t then appeal to or rely on legal status about anything. Whoops!
Leaving you with a wee problemo. But just dismiss this post as trolling and shit-stirring and you’ll be grand.
Robert Louis
Ignored says:
14 May, 2024 at 6:54 am
Forbes has careerist written all over her. She will do or say whatever is needed to assist her career. Scotland? Independence? Nah. No wonder she’s laughing her socks off.
Aye, that green dress was a bit of a giveaway. All show and little action. What little bite she may have had has been completely muzzled by the sneaky Swinney. Kate’s a bit of a poseur methinks. Like NS but prettier. Don’t get your hopes up, folks.
It’s like groundhog day when the latest incarnation of yoon rocks up on here.
Re. The sectarian aspect of the Claim of Right.
T’was dealt with previously.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
REVOLUTION does not always resolve particular issues but as a cathartic it shifts blockages and those who cause them.
Countries occasionally need assertive action to deal with political stasis or just being stuck in a societal rut.
Robert Louis
Ignored
says:
14 May, 2024 at 7:12 am
Don’t engage trolls – because that is exactly what they feed on.
Ordinarily I’d agree 100%, but when it comes to Scotland’s sovereignty, it is Scotland’s indoctrinated ignorance which greatly empowers Westinster and routinely invites Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation. It’s not accidental.
There’s no harm in repeating the truth whenever a troll tries to assert the false UK narrative as legitimate. Ignorance help them, but damages us.
We’ll never convince the mankey jaiket types anyway, but the more often the truth is presented, documented, and the links and sources repeated, the easier it is for “little people” to learn, grow in confidence and ultimately put these bores in their place.
Never forget, it’s vital for the enemies of Scotland to undermine the credibility of Scotland’s Constitution, because acknowledging that Constitution it would require them to concede unequivocally that Scotland was, and remains, a sovereign Nation, and their Act of Union beachball is burst immediately.
Shit face
“I have here a 300 YO bit of parchment which says you have to step down from power, control, wealth and privilege, and let me take your place” says no sane person in the history of the world.”
You do, ya eejit. When you bang on about Holy books fae 2,000 yrs ago.
FFS – yer hypocrisy knows no bounds does it?
As for indy. If Scotland can’t hold an independence referendum – I’ve a better idea & one that’d be far more important – let’s have a referendum on the monarchy. Sovereign Scots have never been asked if we agree for that to continue.
A backroom handshake by a bunch of serfs isn’t asking us.
That’d sort out the land grab & remove them from parliament.
Here we go again.
The deluded but optimistic, romantic, yet ultimately brain dead amongst us, spout the magical 300 year old Claim of Right, Convention of Estates, Sovereignty mince as the sure fire way of getting Independence. It never occurs to them that 95% of all Scots have no interest whatsoever in ancient history.
I can believe that, like me, 50% of Scots currently seek Independence however I seriously doubt that that half of that number would vote for it tomorrow given the current state of Scottish politics and more importantly the dross which represents most Scottish politicians. I wouldn’t.
Change has to come via the ballot box. The hard of thinking can say and write whatever they want about historical guff but they represent about 5% of Scots, I am being generous here. The percentage who post their drivel on here is, of course, much higher.
The first step is the obliteration of the SNP/Greens and then start again. There is no magical solutions however much you want there to be. We are in for a long haul and I seriously doubt if Independence will ever be achieved in many ‘ Wings’ posters life times. Some individuals need to be realistic but I suspect they are unable to do so. Far easier to simply call anyone who disagrees with their possibly well intentioned, but sadly warped views, a Unionist troll.
Maybe you just need a bit of break from Scottish politics.
I’m having a break.
I’m not particularly interested in the things that are happening at the moment.
It’s a great time for political anoraks but QFMD I couldn’t care less who is the leader of the SNP or what John Swinney has to say.
I’m not worried about my mental health because I know it’s not me it’s them.
Have a wee break Craig and come back when you feel refreshed.
Imagine a world without treaties.
The UN & international/constitutional law should just dispense with all that ancient guff. It means absolutely nothing.
Said no Sovereign country, ever.
But the Scots should, obviously. Cause yoons say so even though they quote chapter & verse when it suits them & they still bang drums for something that happened in 1690.
Away & putt yer balls & gies peace.
The Act of Union is an internationally recognised treaty. It isn’t ancient guff. It’s very much alive & well.
Hatey McHateface
But just dismiss this post as trolling and shit-stirring and you’ll be grand.
Chas
Far easier to simply call anyone who disagrees with their possibly well intentioned, but sadly warped views, a Unionist troll.
“By 2015, 42 per cent of people in Scotland thought that the Scottish Parliament had most influence over how Scotland is governed, but three quarters thought that it ought to have most influence. We can see with hindsight that debates and arguments about where sovereignty and legitimacy were embedded in the bedrock of devolution, but they have become more salient as politics has been played out in the past decade. In 2019, one of us observed: ‘Simply asserting that in legal terms the Scottish Parliament is a creature of Westminster ignores the politics. Almost everything these days passes through the filter of self-government’.13 That filter is unlikely to disappear anytime soon.”
link to onlinelibrary.wiley.com
Questions of Sovereignty: Redefining Politics in Scotland?
Chas
Unionists had a chance to bin the “historical guff” in 2014.
They chose not to LOL! Ironic innit?
As for the ballot box. Has the last ten years & six mandates not demonstrated anything to you yet?
It means zero to colonisers.
Geri & Ruby
If you’re relying on 300 YO documents, please bear in mind that as women, you were beneath the consideration of the oppressive patriarchs who wrote these things.
So to fast forwards 300 years to a modern metaphor, awa and get yourselves a new beach ball that you are allowed to play with.
As I wrote above, I’d focus on convincing a solid majority of Scots, male, female and seld-id-ing cats, to support Indy. Then Indy will follow, as sure as night follows day.
But if you’re having more fun name calling over this nonsense that as a matter of historical record doesn’t even include you, then keep going.
Dan,
Thank you for the link you provided to all of us, Stu included,
I will stop trying to tear the “International treaty of union apart” for it gives Scotland an excellent legal opportunity to withdraw peacefully from the treaty of union.
Agreements must be kept, “pacta Sunt Servanda”,
“That filter is unlikely to disappear anytime soon.”
England should have it’s own devolved parliament.
With an English Act.
With reserved matters.
& An annual set of GER accounts.
& Just to even things up, up to 47,000 civil servants. Preferably Scots who want independence.
Scotland isn’t self governed. It’s parliament can’t make decisions. Can’t spend above it’s pocket money, can’t make decisions on our own resources – they’re reserved & everything needs approved by Royal assent. We can’t even hold glorified advisory opinion polls even tho we’re a sovereign nation.
Until England produces a devolved parliament, like the other three parts had to. they should hush up about how great Holyrood is & have one themselves. They’re currently dossing in a GB parliament. But that’d blow the colonisers cover.
“matter of historical record doesn’t even include you,”
What? The UK has never had Queens?
I seem to recall someone called Anne.
I don’t think GRR was a notion back then so we can safely assume she was a biological female.
Many Countries around the world have had to obtain “their freedom” from the “Crown” and “Westminster parliament”
There would not be many on the international stage that would not understand Scotland following in their footsteps.
James Che
That’s what terrifies the last remaining colonisers & the dawn of a new world order. Invasion, plunder & occupation are well & truly over. Colonialism is over. No rush for cannon fodder to sign up anymore. They’ve wised up.
A brilliant idea by Larry Johnson the other day is to have colonising eejits stand at post first or send their eldest to the battle lines. That’d soon end warmongering eejits when it directly affects them.
Three quarters of Scots think a Scottish parliament should have most influence (2021) -Scottish sovereignty.
Yeah that pic really sums it up. The heid bummers in the SNP know that the party is now a Toom Tabard and won’t even need to think about independence for at least 20 years, if ever. So in the meantime they just have to look busy and swap portfolios. If they get put into opposition then that’s even better for them, as then they don’t even have to have targets to achieve in government.
But we have to look at this from the angle of our enemy; Westminster. 2014 was a close call for them. Too close a call. They know that independence is around 50% and among young folk 70%. Those figures would eventually burst the dam, even with mass migration from the south and elsewhere. For Westminster the link between supporting independence and voting SNP had to be broken. That was the mission for our enemies and yet the country was so focused during 2014 that it looked impossible.
Enter stage left the NUSNP. Not only was the actual governance disastrous, but the party deliberately turned upon itself. Every policy which came out was worse than the one before, and heading down the woke road was simply the last straw for most of the party voters.
Add in plenty of enmity and before we knew it, the indy movement was fractured beyond repair. Other parties have emerged which will take votes off the SNP and effectively deny it ever getting a majority in the parliament or at westminster (scottish seats only) again. And yet who in their right mind could vote SNP again, due to the shoddy governance and pointless policies.
The final chance to turn things round was gone when Yousef’s attempt to get Alba support was rumbled by the top brass, and he had to be replaced by the Continuity Candidate.
I’m not sure if the party is being run from an office in London, but if it were, one would have to say they’ve done a good job. But then again, history is littered with the remains of countries which underestimated the English.
And let’s not forget our ‘friends’ in Washington. They personally gain from the trillions spent on the UK nuclear deterrent (maybe one day they’ll let London have the firing codes), so it is not in their interest to support the breakup of the UK. And ultimately, the US is still the only game in town when it comes to real politik.
Crazycat @10.44
Corollary being that any legislation rubber stamped AFTER being elected is open to voluntarily observation too, and remains subordinate to common law in perpetuity (thankfully)
Geri,
Indeed they do panic, and think that if they try belittling Scots some more it might fix their predicament.
@ Geri says: 14 May, 2024 at 10:06 am
If you want to self-id as “Queen Geri” then that’s fine by me. In fact, it’s probably a Scottish legal requirement that I accept your demand to be so addressed.
As your loyal subject, I await your corrections to my belief that there are no female signatures on the ancient parchment(s) we’re discussing.
Take your time …
“the dawn of a new world order. Invasion, plunder & occupation are well & truly over”
Polite nodding and murmurs of agreement from every fawning and scraping courtier in the throne room.
Astonished guffaws of sheer incredulity from everybody else. It’s getting near noon. I suggest you catch today’s news, but be warned – steep learning curve ahead for you.
It is an interesting thought that Scottish people as a equal nation State in the treaty of union have been prevented from withdrawing from it,
And have to have a Section 30 imposed upon Scots and Scotland that no other Country has ever required to claim their right to self determination and independence,
@ James Che
“Indeed they do panic, and think that if they try belittling Scots some more it might fix their predicament.”
From a Unionist POV, do you seriously imagine that a load of 300 year old guff that almost no one gives two hoots about causes panic…?
Show me a capable, charismatic Indy Scot leader newly arising from the ranks (and free of any past baggage), someone whom people could get behind en masse – I’ll start to worry.
Show me an intelligent, credible, well-researched economic prospectus for Indy, as co-authored by credible people with relevant experience and qualifications (and the political will to even produce such a thing in the first place) – my apprehension will significantly further increase.
Show me a galvanised, energised electorate with genuine belief, and a true independence party filled with talent and intent – I’ll be scared beyond belief.
Right now, though, I’m with Chas.
Every so often I start to backslide and go easy on the english (- just like us really, my aunty is english, the working class of liverpool and the working class of glasgow …), then I see things like this –
link to archive.is
and it all comes back to me what an absolute shower of cunts they all are, especially those from the south east, the pure anglos, and the desperate need we have to be rid of them, forever. Also makes me think, did they ever do a previous story in 2014 “hey nigel – how to get yourself a snide vote to stop the smelly socks pissing off with all the oil and crashing england back to 3rd world status”?
The recent indy marches have been underwhelming, “believe in scotland” (to do what – shite its pants and cringe in the corner?) a sad joke; you call that a protest??
a contrast …
link to express.co.uk
link to thescottishsun.co.uk
anglos nowhere thinking – “are we the bad guys?” Reportage, as you expect, a bit sneaky – “anti tourist” protests; grudgingly, references to “brits”, but – it’s all really about the english, the english people, not stroppy germans, or loud italians, the anglo, the rosbifs – “them”, the people who turn it all to shit wherever they go. NB they had a protest in London as well.
any yoon-troll who pops up to tell you “spain will veto Scotland joining the EU because of catalonia”, save these articles to your hard drive, and we’ve not even mentioned Gibraltar.
note how the economics arguments become secondary to ones about respect, culture and identity; arguably tourism keeps the canaries afloat and the scarlet skinned brutes DO “pay you peoples wages” – but that’s a shallow analysis – the domination of tourism has led to a rotten economic development model; for a start, the power lies with land owners, property developers and behind them banks (plus a huge amount of dirty money needing laundry), what gets “allowed” for the ordinary tenerifean is a job as a waiter, cleaner or barman, plus you can likely only afford to rent in your hometown, and thus youngsters with any kind of sellable talent in the mainland will head off there. The locals become helots in their own land, ruled over by brutish ingrates.
The tenerifeans still have a chance as they retain political power; too often economic power easily translates itself into political, but the “expats” have not done this properly as it would involve learning spanish, and english don’t speak foreign. In Scotland you will find most quangoes headed up by delightfully middle class and sharp elbowed english folks, let’s call them the “artisanal cheese on orkney”-Landward crowd – we got taken over, long ago, and these wankers exist at all levels.
Remember the unearned jackpot of the southern englander via the property market was a deliberate policy by the conservative party, a sop, a bribe to their voters – vote for us and your house goes up in price; the creation of these asset bubbles is a deliberate policy of the tories/bank of england, but at the bottom of it all, it is collateralised by the scottish oil and gas. We get robbed once (the revenue), twice (the infrastructure of the south east), three (rising house prices, in the south east) and four times (the little englanders sell up and move up here). And most Scots don’t even realise it.
– it is fucking clever, and pretty impressive – world class cuntery I would call it.
We are destined to become Willy MacWonka’s Highland Brigadoon Golf Resort Executive Community, the Scots the oompah macloompahs. And I doubt we will have the balls to do what the canaries islanders are doing – the scottish cringe does its job – “thats anti english” – don’t want to be racist, lads, better we live in poverty and extinct ourselves than a middle class english is displeased.
This is like the warmup for a pogrom. All it needs is some violent incident and some fire raising and it will all kick off.
link to dailymail.co.uk
– worth reading these articles in full, the individual grievances are described; note how it all starts with economic exploitation, is irritated by a lack of respect, infuriated by indifference, but then the locals realise what a threat to their culture and existence the invaders are. Scots have been robbed, are being robbed every day, and will be robbed in the future in ways unimaginable, for it is to get so much worse – then there is the insult of “why are you not grateful?”
Who would put up with that?
“Even the most heroically optimistic and tirelessly positive people in the independence movement … ” – posting as one such individual.
Extract post from elsewhere on social media:
The Scotland Act 1998 was carefully and very deliberately constructed to imprison the people of Scotland. We are witness to that as a fact in the ruling of the UK Supreme Court, and whenever you hear of S30, S35 et al. At every change to Scotland’s First Minister, not just the most recent, we are also witness to the imprisonment of Scotland by virtue of the Scotland Act 1998.
Written close to 4 years ago, and now signed by Scots from every part of Scotland, The Declaration of a Sovereign Scot includes this paragraph:
I do not consent to the terms of, nor the continuation of, the Scotland Act 1998, and all subsequent relevant Acts of like nature and purpose.
The Declaration initiative has, at its heart, a profound purpose – to re-establish the legacy of the Arbroath Declaration and the Claim of Right – that it is the people of Scotland who are Sovereign, and to re-establish that principle as both fundamental and permanent, as OUR legacy for all future generations.
If not us – who? If not now – when?
FWIW – a reminder of my new year resolution: To do my best to ensure that everyone who wants to sign their individual Declaration will be able to do so. It will happen at rallies, at Yes stalls and other events, and in particular as I tour Scotland – each of those has already happened in 2024, and they will all continue to happen.
Extract ends …
The post also included the Guardian video of the latest First Minister swearing three oaths to King Charles and his successors – I don’t think the Rev would allow me to add the link but if at all interested head to the F/book page for Independence Live.
Westminster parliament prostituting themselves as a Colonial governing institute,
CC
If you paid attention to world news, especially international laws that’s just happened on the right of self determination, a nation seeking independence doesn’t need to produce any of that guff for your perusal.
Colonisers don’t get to set criteria, agenda, permissions, future financial prospects, percentages, who is leader & who considers them unfit. That’s illegal authority they’re not entitled to. They’re not our trustees.
They’ve no legal right under international law. Self determination is a right not a gift & the treaty of Union can be terminated when & if Scotland feels like it. With a ref or without. It’s a sovereign nation. So stay awake.
Shit face
Why?
What’s the propaganda channels telling you today?
I am going to ask the question many seem to be avoiding, and hiding from.
Does anybody believe that another referendum would actually be a yes win?
I voted yes the last time but would not know, nor would I even want another referendum.
I think the independence movement has to get out of their echo chamber and listen to what folk actually are thinking, the only way they may ever get this to happen is to convince folk that they are right. Nearly everyone I know remembers the last referendum and the aggro it caused and don’t want a repeat, unless there is aan undeniable and massive majority for change, something that is missing just now. Probably because the SP has descended into complete incompetence and while folk may have a problem with being governed from WM they look at our own home grown clowns as even worse.
There is going to have to be a cleansing and reset in the SP to show it would work before anybody would consider putting those clowns in charge of anything.
I am going to ask the question many seem to be avoiding, and hiding from.
Does anybody believe that another referendum would actually be a yes win?
I voted yes the last time but would not know, nor would I even want another referendum.
I think the independence movement has to get out of their echo chamber and listen to what folk actually are thinking, the only way they may ever get this to happen is to convince folk that they are right. Nearly everyone I know remembers the last referendum and the aggro it caused and don’t want a repeat, unless there is an undeniable and massive majority for change, something that is missing just now. Probably because the SP has descended into complete incompetence and while folk may have a problem with being governed from WM they look at our own home grown clowns as even worse.
There is going to have to be a cleansing and reset in the SP to show it would work before anybody would consider putting those clowns in charge of anything.
Captain Caveman
11: 55 am,
The parliament in England has had over three hundred years to show us the money
Show me a capable charismatic leader newly arising from the ranks of Westminster (and free of past baggage) someone whom people could en masse get behind,- I’ll start to worry.
Show me a intelligent, credible well researched economic prospective for Britain as Co authored by
Credible with relevant experience qualifications ( and the political will to even produce such a thing in the first place)- my apprehension will significantly increase,
Show me a galvanised, energised electorate with a genuine belief, and true independent Brexit party filled with talent and intent- I’ll be scared beyond belief.
Right now through I am with Fifty % of the Sovereign Scottish nation,
RISHI SUNAK comes from this background.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Essentially Indian slaves sent to African colonies.
And he has the cheek to talk like a BURRA SAHIB about the great threat of Scottish Nationalism….if only that were so.
He does a rather good «white» imperialist.
Rob @ 12.38.
After some 9 years of Ms Sturgeon’s administration plus what has followed, I’d doubt that the turnout for any referendum would attract enough support from the electorate to be truly meaningful, Rob.
Amongst my friends and relatives, irrespective of their views on independence, the general feeling just seems to be, “It makes no difference which of the self serving elite get into power, they’re all in it for themselves so a plague on all their houses”.
Alex Salmond demonstrated during his 7 years as SNP Leader & FM that it was very possible to govern competently and attract support for independence sufficiently to increase from around 27/28% to nearly winning the referendum.
Since then, the cabal of political pygmies who followed have succeeded in totally destroying any belief in our political class.
Referendum ? I’d settle for a GP’s appointment and getting onto a local dentist’s list.
@ Geri
“Self determination is a right not a gift & the treaty of Union can be terminated when & if Scotland feels like it. With a ref or without. It’s a sovereign nation. So stay awake.”
Leaving aside the (IMO) ridiculous premise of your whole position, ergo that Scotland is a “colony” despite all of the observable facts of the situation et al, I am “awake” to the requirements and criteria for recognition of an independent State as from the international community (most notably Spain and the wider EU in Scotland’s case).
If it’s all so easy and straightforward according to you, Geri, why bother with referendums at all – past, present or future? Why not just do as you suggest? Why doesn’t the SNP just do it – and why don’t Alba/Salmond suggest likewise? (Imagine if this *were* possible; the SNP could, in one fell swoop, instantly sweep aside so many of the distractions, failings and self-inflicted controversies all of their own making – in which case do you honestly believe they simply choose not to do so?)
The facts, I think, speak for themselves. It doesn’t matter how many times you or a few others on here claim something to be correct – however aggressively or vociferously. It doesn’t make it so, and frankly it isn’t.
No, if you want Indy, you and yours are going to have to put the snake oil away and put a serious shift in IMO. Just saying.
@ Confused says: 14 May, 2024 at 12:05 pm
I’m going to jump in, just because I continue to believe there is no future for a Scotland where ignorant bigots get to make all the sound and fury.
But by all means, feel free to write off this Sovereign Scot as an English Yoon.
“we’ve not even mentioned Gibraltar”
No, you haven’t. 96% of Gibraltarians want to remain British. How that percentage figure must burn your eyeballs and keep your guts churning with acid, eh?
Something else you’ve not even mentioned. Morocco claims the Canary Islands, simply because prior to the Spanish conquest of the Americas, the Canary Islands were no part of Spain whatsoever.
So in the Canary Islands, you have a bunch of colonists complaining about a different bunch of colonists. Boo f*cking hoo.
“what a threat to their culture and existence the invaders are”
Haha, good one. I’ve been to Tenerife. You’ll see statues of the indigenous inhabitants here and there. You’ll not see any of the indigenous inhabitants though.
They’re long gone.
Come to think of it, a bit like the Picts.
Captain Caveman
Ignored
says:
Right now, though, I’m with Chas.
I think we all guessed that! Captain!
PS Any update on the sinking school?
The pensions mentioned recently for Youless shocked me, I wish I could get a pension that I did not have to work for 40 years to match.
I am not quite sure what the reasoning is behind the pension rights the MSP and ministers get, why do they get a full pension for a year in post compared to all other public sector workers who have to work 40 years to match it.
This stinks of self serving corruption
I’m guessing you are with Chas, Captain Caveman & Hatey John Main.
Nearly everyone I know remembers the last referendum and the aggro it caused and don’t want a repeat
Is nearly everyone you know a Unionist?
Seriously Rob that line sounds like something straight out of the ‘Better Together’ handbook.
Have ppl forgotten the question already?
Yer voting to be independent.
Not voting for the SNP who’d be nowhere near government. Sheesh…
Why do ppl think another country who is robbing us blind is in any position to govern us better than we would ourselves.
We get zero benefit from the Union. Zero.
So you’d all rather stick with zero? Lol..d’oh!
A suggested motto for all of us BTL commentators; it’s a common quote amongst surgeons relating to both consultants and each other:
“Often mistaken, but never in doubt.”
That’s Westminster for you.
Full pensions, over inflated salaries & a lifetime invite to all the best gaffs. Maybe even some guest speakers gigs or an ambassador gig or even reach the dizzy heights of Brown & Blair & be rolled out onto the telly every time someone mentions indy. Maybe even make a comeback like Spoon face & be parachuted into the Lords.
“Seriously Rob that line sounds like something straight out of the ‘Better Together’ handbook.”
It is.
The only trouble during 2014 was caused by them. There’s even footage of them thrashing George Square for err, winning. LOL!
Racism & violence seems to just follow those roasters around for some strange reason..
But it’s not them.
Rob,
“I voted yes the last time but would not know, nor would I even want another referendum.”
If you are at all interested in democracy (whether we live in a democracy or not is another question) you would want a current and accurate measurement of the Will of the People.
That we are ignorant of who would “win”, should reinforce the argument that we have one.
Surely, as a democratic people, we have an obligation to keep our representatives informed of our democratic wishes and our representatives have a duty to enact these democratic wishes.
Hence as a democratic society, we would all be winners.
The idea that we should all be kept in the dark about the accuracy of the Will of the People ensures that our politicians and so-called representatives can manipulate the direction of our society without any real input from the Plebs.
Our politicians should be weighed and measured at every opportunity and not ever be given cart blanche to do whatever the highest bidder tells them to do.
I hope this answers not only your question on whether we should have a referendum but also how often.
Chas said;
“…Change has to come via the ballot box.”
Not necessarily; it can also come from the courts, both national and international.
If the courts find that the Union’s governance grievously exceeds its lawful authority as provided for under the Treaty and Acts of Union, then the Treaty becomes void and the authorities it provided to the Union’s parliament will end, and the Union and its parliament will end with it. That outcome would not need any ballot box to validate it.
Where a ballot box will become necessary is after the termination negotiations have been completed, so that its outcomes can be validated by acceptance by both of the electorates of the former Union. If one or both electorates refuse to accept some aspect of the negotiation outcomes, the negotiations will have to continue to resolve whatever it is the electorate won’t accept.
Those negotiations will need to be supervised by the UN or other outside body.
Hear hear, Rev.
I notice Ruby did exactly what I said was the problem, the echo chamber isn’t saying and agreeing with her so she puts me on ignore. If you cannot back up you position and put your fingers in your ears and keep saying La La La nobody is going to take you seriosly.
Folk up here got to the point in the last referendum that it became a taboo subject to discuss as it causes so much aggro, this was from both sides and even now I don’t think anybody wants a repeat, particularly as I don’t think the majority think that there is any chance of a yes vote as things stand. That would need to change before there was any hope of a refenerdum.
Geri, who said anything about the SNP being incompetent to run Scotland, I meant all of them. There is not a single party at the mopmentin scotland I would trust to run a jumble sale never mind a country. They are all as bad as each other and the risk here is that the LEAST idiotic party gets voted in, not the BEST. I think for a number of years the SNP have benefitted from the incompetence of all the other parties and now they have sunk to their level I suspect there will be a poor turnout next SE.
Who are folk going to vote for now?
Captain Caveman says: at 11:55 am
“Show me an intelligent, credible, well-researched economic prospectus for Indy…
Show me a capable, charismatic Indy Scot leader newly arising from the ranks (and free of any past baggage), someone whom people could get behind en masse…”
First point:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Second point:
Granted I’d probably need to lose the wild biker / covid lockdown stylée haircut and finally track down a dentist to sort a bust tooth before I’d pass muster with the pathetically shallow vanity of the electorate that can only vote for someone they like the look of rather than some ugly bastard who actually has some knowledge, abilities, and competence.
Charisma wise with a Scottish twist, how does this one work for you? Awa and tak a flying fuck tae yersel ya roaster!
A steady stream of twats like you rock up on here pointing out all manner of faults with Scotland that you can’t fail to have noticed we are already well aware of, whilst you completely ignore the bigger shitstate of a picture caused by centuries of London Rule. You ken that place called Westminster well because that’s where your preferred governance resides, and the place that hold all the major powers to influence and implement policy across the UK and led us into the badly compromised position we all find ourselves in.
And FYI I can’t respond for a while as heading out to collect a muckle load of sheep poop to mix with the seasoned woodchips from my hedge coppicing efforts, so I can create a fookin mahoosif compost pile for my veg garden.
Joanna Cherry back in the news, flapping her gums again.
Don’t get excited. Nothing to do with her working to advance the well being of the Scots who pay her exorbitant wages and expenses, and trust her to represent them first and foremost.
No, she’s striving to ensure the continued excellence of the UK as a magnet for illegal crims and grifters. I guess there must be surplus capacity in the housing, hospital, educational, penal and health sectors just crying out for extra people to occupy it.
The next poster on here claiming that “white flight” from south of the border is sabotaging Scotland’s Indy majority will, I sincerely hope, provide a balanced post by mentioning Ms Cherry’s valiant efforts to ensure that “white flight” continues, or even increases.
Captain Caveman,
Scotland is not in a Union, it’s a misnomer.
Calling yourself a Unionist is like calling the abductee tied up in your cellar a flatmate.
The legal arguments are nonsense and the UN would not be at all interested in mediating a negotiation this is really clutching at straws.
Let me put it another way in far simpler terms, ie yes or no.
If there was another referendum next week does anybody seriously believe it would be a yes vote for independence?
If anyone can show convincing evidence that another referendum is the obvious will of the majority in Scotland right now then lets crack on with it.
I don’t believe at the moment that there is any possible traction in another referendum at the moment so why waaste the time and money on it
Gah! What’s the point lol 😀
Fair enough, you keep talking in your little reverberation chamber, excuse my well-meaning but naive intrusion.
Ruby Tuesday
“Nearly everyone I know remembers the last referendum and the aggro it caused and don’t want a repeat”
The only permanent solution for the colonial ‘condition’ is independence and hence liberation. Once a people are liberated they will no longer seek dependence or to be dominated by another ‘superior’ people/group. So long as colonialism continues the oppressed group ‘will never be at peace’ (Memmi); or until they no longer exist, which tends to be the ultimate aim of colonialism.
Within a ‘dependency’ the oppressed people have to figure out what they want, i.e. continued domination or liberation. This is complicated mainly for the more assimilated and hence privileged native groups, but for the rest of us who have already ‘decolonized our minds'(50%+) its a straightforward decision:
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
@Xaracen says: 14 May, 2024 at 1:35 pm
“If one or both electorates refuse to accept some aspect of the negotiation outcomes, the negotiations will have to continue to resolve whatever it is the electorate won’t accept”
Seriously???
WTF???
So even if the courts agree to nullify the Union in accordance with the Ancient Guff, the electorate can still stop it?
The English could say “Back in your box, Jock. You’re not mature enough to make your own decisions”.
We could say “We love you really, and we want a second chance to make it work. Look, we’re off the booze”.
What about the enormous changes to the franchise (especially with mass immigration to England)? Do the New Scots and New English all get a say too?
What about the boyos from the valleys (Old and New)?
Sorry, Xaracen, I’m just not understanding your post at all.
” well-meaning but naive intrusion.”
First part false. Second part true.
@Captain Caveman says: 14 May, 2024 at 2:02 pm
You can do crosswords, sudoku, or post on here. They all are equally to the point.
As a Sovereign Scot, living in Scotland, I have a vested interest in trying to reduce the influence of the, ahem, intellectually challenged, on our public life.
The SNP/Green ScotGov gives us all the evidence we need to see what the future of Scotland will be if we don’t get some grown ups into the playground to restore sanity, reality, decency and discipline.
I believe you live south of the border. You still have an interest in sharing this island with a moderately sane, responsible and law-abiding iScotland, should we Scots ever decide that’s what we want, more than we want to endlessly bicker and points score among ourselves.
To paraphrase Rev Stu above. It’s our near-legendary hero who tried, over and over and over again.
A King he was too. Just another awkward fact that sticks in the craw of those in denial about our history and culture.
Rob,
“If anyone can show convincing evidence that another referendum is the obvious will of the majority in Scotland right now then lets crack on with it.”
I don’t believe you have a full grasp of how democracy works.
This isn’t a chicken and egg scenario, we already know which comes first, and placing the cart before the horse, intellectually speaking isn’t really a good look.
@Campbell Clansman at 12:23 am;
“But if you take the 1689 Act as a Constitution, you must therefore also believe Scotland’s fundamental law prohibits Catholics holding public office, having mass in public, or even publishing books.”
Scotland’s law system is flexible enough that some aspects of it that modern folks would legitimately disapprove of will simply not be enforced. Such is the case with the intemperate religious restrictions of that era; views that were deemed acceptable then are not deemed acceptable in more enlightened times.
Once we re-establish our own authority, we can properly and directly address such aspects of our constitution we should no longer accept, but we can do nothing about that until the English establishment’s unwarranted stranglehold on Scotland’s sovereignty is torn away.
“You really embarrass your cause by making these absurd and anti-historical claims.”
You wish! 😀
“I don’t believe you have a full grasp of how democracy works.
This isn’t a chicken and egg scenario, we already know which comes first, and placing the cart before the horse, intellectually speaking isn’t really a good look.”
We had the chicken and then the egg and the egg was rejected. There needs to be a new chicken grown first before there is another attempt at a second egg.
I don’t think there is enough meat to have a second chicken, in fact I think there is less around than the first time.
Again, does anybody realistically think that another referendum would result in a yes vote, at this time? Yes or no?
@Hatey McHateface;
“So even if the courts agree to nullify the Union in accordance with the Ancient Guff, the electorate can still stop it?”
As usual, you totally misrepresented what I said.
The two electorates would not be asked if they approve of the court’s decision to end the Union, because it’s not coming back either way because the Union has been found not to be a lawful entity, so it cannot come back as is; the electorates would be asked if they accept the outcomes of the termination negotiations that the ending of the Union initiated.
“Sorry, Xaracen, I’m just not understanding your post at all.”
You understood it just fine, Hatey, it was your dishonesty that messed you up.
“Rob
Ignored says:
14 May, 2024 at 1:56 pm
The legal arguments are nonsense”
link to thenational.scot
Considering some posters are leaving the blog let’s try to be positive. It’s not only the Cromarty Firth is a golden opportunity for anybody North of the Slochd Summit. But Leith and the Forth of Firth Freeport, inward investment, are recruiting local engineers to work on tidal machines. My message to Swinney and Forbes take the photo opportunities and if you must the glory but keep your Spads and Spin Doctors well out of this situation. Swinney is turning out to be a lucky FM. For the first time in years I am excited about Scotlands prospects. I will judge the success of Freeports on the number of skilled highly paid local jobs and the apprentice stream. In the Highlands that will be easy. Not only the apprentice numbers but the categories of discipline and whether they employ local youngsters. Nothing will evade their scrutiny. Hopeful times in Scotland. Don’t blow it SNP stand back from intervention. Let it happen.
Hi sam.
That page was archived 10 months ago.
link to archive.is
Rob,
Your demanding to know the Will of the People before you measure the Will of the People.
Although others may have been amused by your reasoning, I can see I’ve wasted my time and yours by responding to your questions.
According to the distinguished academic and legal practitioner in international law, Professor Robert McCorquodale,
“the people of Scotland are distinct within the UK and have a right to self-determination…And as the people of Scotland are a people for the purposes of the right to self-determination…the choice of the means to exercise it is for the people to decide and not for the state.”
These are not obscure or arcane points of law; they are precise and purposeful, and according to Professor McCorquodale such treaty obligations are
“binding under international law on all states”.
From Neale Hanvey’s speech to UK parl and recorded in Hansard.
Who wants to second guess McCorqodale?
Because the fight’s been going on for over 300 years, and we don’t just quit when it gets tough. We tried that once and people wanted us back.
And thats why we Will prevail!1
Thank you Stu!!
The legal arguments you are hearing are from the independence movement echo chamber, not the real world.
Even if by some remote chance a legal argument was found somewhere ther would still have to be public support and a referendum to make it happen.
I don’t see support for another referendum, at the moment.
I just wonder what is going to happen in the next SE as I expect the SNP are going to get tanked badly. Just not sure what or who will replace them as all the alternatives are just as bad or worse. Much worse in the case of the greens.
Still relevant, Brian, now and in the future.Bad law is bad law.
There are debates where one side’s argument is unassailable and yet the other side persists in its attempts to undermine it to the detriment and inevitable demise of its own argument.
It’s like a flock of tiny birds flying headlong, again and again and over and over, into a large plate glass window. Where the window is the unassailable argument and the tiny birds the counter argument of its attackers.
It’s often painful to watch and some sympathy should be given by onlookers to the suffering of the tiny birds, perhaps. Although it can often be difficult to forgive the intransigent short-sightedness of tiny birds in their stubborn determination for self-annihilation.
Please note: no tiny birds were harmed in the making of this metaphor.
Nobody is challenging the right to self determination, its just that the country as a whole so far has refused to exercise it when given a fairly recent opportunity.
There is an important difference between the two positions.
I notice no-one is willing to give a yes no answer to whether they genuinely think a referendum, at this moment, would result in a majority yes vote but keep insisting that that is the way forwards.
I think it is clear that at this time any new referendum would fail, again, so what is the point?
The case will need to be made, again, before anything can or will change and sitting in the background saying you have popular support when you don’t is not going to cut it. You are going to go and have to do it again before another tr and that means plugging the obvious current holes in the current argument.
Dan
Lol
You can’t be any worse than the serial shaggers, liars, thieves & corrupt warmongering thugs that the Westminster system churns out.
Trillions in debt. Hated around the globe, an embarrassment on the world stage, genocide enablers, racists & (everyone else’s) wealth guzzlers but apparently they’re top notch to look after us all. We’re so lucky eh? Heaven forbid food banks close or pittance pensions stopped. I dunno where the fck we’d be without our English overlords looking out for us…said no one, ever. The empire couldn’t wait to get rid & so far no one has invited them back.
@Rob 4:23pm
The answer is nobody knows the outcome on a second Independence Referendum which is why it’s not being granted. For Sunak to say that Scottish people that want an Independent Country are extremist show his lack of understanding of the Scottish Political scene. By definition around half of population cannot be regarded as extremist. If you think that, then that’s is undoubtedly an argument against the Union. Put your arguments to the test. Allow a mechanism for self determination that doesn’t include a Section 30. I am sure the SNP will piss their pants as well.
Rob
Independence support remains.
SNP won six mandates to deliver independence.
Currently two majorities in both parliaments with an active mandate.
What are you struggling with?
That’s even before an active campaign.
The question is independence. Not what politicians you like. Just as it wasn’t last time.
The SNP is dead. Independence is not.
A brand new parliament would result in a YES vote. The SNP would not be elected. Simple.
Rob
Here’s a novel idea.
Why don’t we hold one & find out?
That’d be “stunning & brave” for the NuSNP.
Go out with a bang…
Rob
“Nobody is challenging the right to self determination, its just that the country as a whole so far has refused to exercise it when given a fairly recent opportunity.”
Major correction neeeded there; the Scottish people have democratically elected 6 pro-independence nationalist majorities when just one is required to lawfully withdraw Scotland from the UK Union alliance.
The fault for Scotland’s ongoing colonial corset rests squarely with the national party leadership, not with the people. The lack of movement by the national party ‘at the decisive moment’ is the reason for the ‘rupture in the movement’ (Fanon).
The SNP won a mandate for a referendum, then lost the referendum and support for them has been melting faster than snow off a dyke.
Not sure where the current mandate comes from?
And the argument used is circular as you can’t have a mandate voted through the SNP then say they are going to get tanked at the next election ( I agree, they will)
So where is the mandate and majority going to come from in the next SE? The greens or Alba, I wouldn’t vote for either and suspect I am not in a minority here.
I suspect the next SG is going to be the LEAST unpopular politicians left from a massively reduced turnout.
And once again, does anybody seriously think another referendum at this time would succeed? Yes/No?
Try to interact with a yoon ? Nothing back but insult, misinformation, misinterpretation, deflection, denial and outright lies! Gotta give these cunts credit where due.
Centuries of thieving bastardry and deceit has honed the ability.
Just a shame for them that the majority of the planet sees through it.
@Don 1:50pm , spot on
@ Rob
You conveniently mistake support for the SNP as support for Independence.
Support for Independence has been hovering around 50% and has the potential to improve during a referendum campaign. So yes a referendum could be won.
True support for the SNP has tanked- but we need to look at support for Independence Parties overall for a mandate.
If 50% plus are willing to vote for any independence party then it could be game on. As you seem to be well aware!!
The ignore button doesn’t work for me. Maybe you can tell us how it works Rob. I’m pretty sure a lot of people would like to know.
Oh, what a belly laugh. Still dangling the Indy carrot for the simple and gullible to follow. 10 years of pish and wind and nothing to show for it.
It’s like the Tories dangling the “Hey, look, we’re less pish than the other lot” to their (decimated) fanbase, despite 14 years of cock-ups and ruin.
Or Labour crowing about how pish everything is and how they’ll sort it all, whilst conveniently ignoring the economic ruin they left last time round.
They all think we are stupid. And that’s largely correct, as there will be a large number of fucknuggets who will inflict further ruin on us all by continuing to vote for the above.
George Ferguson;
You’re not a Tory, are you, Geotge? If not then you seem to be missing the point on these so called ‘freeports’….
From the Yours for Scotland website;
“These Freeports will not enrich Scotland, they will perpetuate control of large, important areas of Scotland to non Scottish control with any wealth and profit being swiftly removed with little or no benefit for the local communities. They also provide legal loopholes where a wide variety of legislation can be ignored. This includes laws which protect workers rights and which prevent fracking for instance. They are designed to further asset strip our country, made easier by rules that protect the asset stripper. It speeds up the process of robbing Scotland in front of eyes which raises the question what the hell is the SNP government doing supporting this? Are they mad!?”
What do you mean by a referendum?
Are you talking about a referendum with a S30 which Unionist are denying us.
Polls are saying there is approx 50% support for independence. If there were to be a referendum then there would be at least 50% support.
This and the fact that Unionist are denying us an S30 makes me say YES a referendum at this time would succeed.
Take care you don’t commit a racist hate crime by suggesting the people of Scotland are too stupid to run a country.
George Ferguson 4:56pm
“For Sunak to say that Scottish people that want an Independent Country are extremist show his lack of understanding of the Scottish Political scene.”
It’s not a lack of understanding. It’s straight from the colonisers playbook.
Wanting independence = extremist.
Wishing to leave our overlords = terrorist/separatist.
Protesting being 2nd class in yer own nation = insurgents.
Wishing yer own nation the right to self determination = nativist, racist bigot who hates the English.
Thinking we can manage better on our own = too wee, too poor, too stupid. No one will like us without them. They’ll make sure of it.
@ Geri
Having observed the frankly absurd political antics of the NuSNP and “Greens” cretins over the best part of the last decade you know in your heart of hearts you could probably have done a better job of winning over folk and running the country whilst off yer face getting a groove on in some dark and dungy Dutch techno club, using only a mono-winged and blind homing pigeon and smoke signals to convey information and instruction to be implemented in Scotland between each DJ change and re-hydration / piss breaks.
I don’t think they even make LSD strong enough to melt my brain enough to believe some of the shit our current crop of politicians come out with.
Insane shizzle like “You can be born in the wrong body and by only the power of thought (and a shit load of drugs and surgery – kerching) change your sex” (NB. please read small print to see you will lose the ability to experience the currently free and un-taxed joy of orgasm and resultant procreation to continue your bloodline, but you’re mental anyway so it’s basically like self-selecting eugenics anyway ya sucker), “Let’s fit solar PV arrays on North facing roofs (in northern hemisphere) to save the planet”, “Win the electorate over by implementing a range of policies that the majority of folk don’t agree with”.
Fucks sake I’d be a safe pair of hands compared to these lunatics.
I’d do the job whilst donating all my wages to decent causes and only claiming expenses, and even be prepared to take time out of running the country to help John Main install a stealth hydroponics setup in his damp basement so he can grow cannabis plants for his personal use which would chill him out a bit by taking the edge off his relentless anxieties.
I’m also a bit of an athletic type too, so reckon I could take Chas in a round of stickball if he’s up for the challenge and his Golf Club allows plebs like me to tread their hallowed turf.
We could even have a few jars and nips before we start play and do a pay per view of our antics to generate revenue to donate to a good cause. That shit has got to be more entertaining and beneficial to society than some inane Britain’s Chefs and Dancers Got Strictly Baked on an Island.
Anyway, got to go and incinerate my neighbours’ fence in my currently not banned woodburning stove to cook the dinner on. Dinnae fash “Greens”, the auld fence was 50 year old untreated Scottish larch so no planet wrecking going on with me, but maybe check yer oan environmental credentials what with all those dodgy solar PV and ASHP installations you facilitated, ya bunch of utter fannies. 😉
O/T
The malign influence of Stonewall – another captured body.
link to twitter.com
@James 5:48pm
Geotge? I assume you mean me? I am a member of Alba formerly SNP if you are insistent on my politics. Left of centre on social politics and right of centre on defence and the mixed economy including releasing entrepreneurs and the benefits of Freeports. 10 years of naval gazing in Scotland has produced nought. Your time is over with the so called social justice campaign. People want well paid jobs and security. Welcome to the world of a seasoned Independence Campaigner.
See this magna carta pish that these wee englanders repeat endlessly I think they should be told that it’s just a load of ancient guff, do these arsehole politicians in WM need telt that chas,c.c, genocide John moan,franchise fanny, and aw the other unionist deriders know that this magna carta pish doesn’t mean shit tae the international community or is it jist the COR and the Arbroath Declaration , every time WM spouts about it the international community jist laughs at their stupidity
I pish masel laughing when sunak braverman and the other minority ethnic representatives espouse and promote our pure British values and our wonderful combined histories, as if maybe the English colonials were so fair and inclusive,but the Scots are damned extremists,what a load of pish
George Ferguson
“People want well paid jobs and security.”
They won’t get it with freeports. They’re outside of workers rights & there won’t be apprenticeships. There’ll probably be one just as a token gestr. Robin McAlpine proved the same with Scot Wind. There’s no one to make them employ anyone from the area.
Well done the Georgian parliament for voting through the Foreign Agents Bill.
@ Xaracen says: 14 May, 2024 at 1:35 pm
Here you go, your short-term memory loss is a bummer, commiserations, but I’ll help you out by re-posting what you posted earlier:
Where a ballot box will become necessary is after the termination negotiations have been completed, so that its outcomes can be validated by acceptance by both of the electorates of the former Union. If one or both electorates refuse to accept some aspect of the negotiation outcomes, the negotiations will have to continue to resolve whatever it is the electorate won’t accept
I’m reading that as saying that both or either electorate has an effective veto on sundering the Union, until such time as both electorates get what they want. It won’t matter if one electorate is happy, if the other is not. Back to the negotiating table will go the happy punters to lose a bit of what made them happy.
If that’s not what you meant it to say, Xaracen, I suggest you get into the habit of posting what you do intend to say. Not only will it make everybody’s lives easier, it will help the readers to form a good opinion of you too.
The foreign English parliament, its security services and its treacherous house jocks are our enemies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if supporting Scottish independence is made illegal in the foreign country of England, and then it will be enforced in Scotland.
“AN EXTREMISM expert has warned there is a danger that campaigning for – or even debating – Scottish independence could come under UK counter-extremism legislation in the future.
Professor Chris Allen – who leads the extremism hub at Leicester University’s Centre for Hate Studies – told The National that Yessers could potentially even be referred to the Home Office’s Prevent counter-extremism programme.
It comes after Rishi Sunak included “Scottish nationalism” in a major speech on Monday about extremism.”
@Geri 7:06pm
I take it from your response you have never lived in the Highlands. Robert McAlpine is not an Engineer and has never been responsible for multiple million engineering projects. Correct me if I am wrong. I have never taken a pound from an Independence supporter. I have given plenty. He said Engineering was a closed profession. Absolutely the opposite he had never taken the time to understand the profession. After his Grangemouth rant and now his Freeports nonsense. I don’t think he is a credible source on engineering matters.
@Republicofscotland says:14 May, 2024 at 7:12 pm
Well done the Georgian parliament for voting through the Foreign Agents Bill.
Hear hear! Let’s get the Georgians back in their box. No EU and western-style freedoms for them.
Let’s make damned sure we get the same approach on Scotland’s streets. Like you, I want every pro-EU sympathiser rounded up and thrown somewhere nobody will ever find them. Sweep the freedom-loving scum off our streets.
C’mon now RepublicOfScotland, on the count of 3 … “Oooorrahhh”.
Me thinks George Ferguson is playing the sneaky long game here with his support for Freeports.
Cajole and corral all the money grabbing tax avoiding big corporates into operating in Freeport zones, then George implements his prospectus with Scotland gaining better control over our energy generation and supply infrastructure. Boom! He then implements significantly higher energy tariffs for the supply and usage of energy to wannabe freeloading tax avoiding companies operating in Freeport zones.
The lord giveth, and the lord taketh away…
@Republicofscotland says:14 May, 2024 at 7:27 pm
How about if somebody makes everything you dislike illegal and everything else compulsory?
Would you be happy then?
Ordinarily, I might almost admire the chutzpah of somebody who posted in favour of clamping down on freedom of expression one day, and then posted to greet about a clampdown on freedom of expression the next.
But in two back-to-back posts 15 minutes apart?
That’s not chutzpah. That’s weapons-grade idiocy.
@Geri 7:06pm
I have delivered multi million Engineering projects. The last time I checked Robert McAlpine has not done so. I stand to be corrected. His proposals for Grangemouth and Freeports showed a lack of strategic understanding. He says the engineering profession is closed. It isn’t read the multiple engineering magazines. Of course I have never made a pound from gullible Independence supporters.
I have thought for a few years that Scotland actually avoided the bullet in the NO declared referendum. Regardless of how manipulated and fixed we know it was.
The UK cannot afford to lose the resources of Scotland. Not a fukin chance since it’s the last colony the City of London can pillage.
Some of us remember all the vitriol, threats and hatred from the yoon hate campaign. Those folk would happily have been supportive of all the funds and collaboration they would receive from the Loyal for the Crown.
Embdy see the new portrait of our King ? S’pose they can’t get Rolf anymore.
“Hear hear! Let’s get the Georgians back in their box. No EU and western-style freedoms for them.”
Western style freedoms don’t make me laugh, the Gen–Ocide in Ga–za is well under way because of foreign agents having undue influence on EU/Western governments.
“Under the bill – which passed its third and final reading with 84 votes against 30 on Tuesday – NGOs and independent media that receive more than 20% of their funding from foreign donors would have to register as organisations “bearing the interests of a foreign power”.”
@Dan 7:47pm
A disappointing response from you Dan. Wide of the mark. Typical of 10 years of SNP control. Methinks you have gone over to the darkside. Incapable of thinking there is another solution. I can gave you a solution to Grangemouth. Public energy ownership and Freeports. You are a common weal guy. I am a Scottish Public wealth guy.
“But in two back-to-back posts 15 minutes apart?
That’s not chutzpah. That’s weapons-grade idiocy.”
Oh and look everybody, there’s a follow up deflecting post at 7:58.
I’ll play along. Nae Gen–Ocide for you yet, RepublicOfScotland? Awww. I see the Iron Dome is still holding firm.
But chin up. Get in front of your mirror and practice anyway – I guess it could fail, and you will want to be ready to celebrate. On the count of 3 … “Oooorrahhh”.
Republicofscotland
“Well done the Georgian parliament for voting through the Foreign Agents Bill.”
Aye, great news.
Everyone in parliament should be declaring exactly who is paying for them being there & whose interests they really serve. It won’t be the tax payers that’s for sure.
George Ferguson
Didn’t Scotland have freeports before? Any success stories emerge from them?
George Ferguson
The key to evaluating freeports will be seeing if anybody is willing to work in them. Will there be people to do the jobs offered, for the terms and conditions available?
I’m thinking there will.
“Embdy see the new portrait of our King ? S’pose they can’t get Rolf anymore.”
A picture that paints a hundred colonies.
It perfectly captures the idea of empire in a caring and friendly father-figure kind of way.
I wonder if the butterfly is there to represent the innocent and naïve peoples colonised and exploited.
The sword is the symbolic force behind imperial power of course.
And the King (not Scotland’s King) looks very kingy dressed in
fancyimperial fancydresscostumeuniform.I’d definitely hang it on a wall – just not a wall in ma hoose.
Maybe some wall in Bombay, or Rhodesia perhaps.
Or on the remotest part of the Great Wall of China – on the outside facing away would most likely be the preference of the Chinese.
@Hatey McHateface 8:43pm
Engineers were queuing up with the Freeport designated Firth of Forth. Offices sprung up in the last week in Leith. What is it ? Tidal marine engineering. Engineers want to be associated with the next generation of technology. European investment of course. What is it ? Scottish innovation in tidal wave lacks anchoring. Say no more.
Do you really think Scotland will see a penny?
Do you believe these will create high skilled jobs?
It’s selling off Scotland & it isn’t theirs to sell.
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
GRRrrrrrrrrr
I loathe the SNP – wtf are they for – bland devo-apologists the lot of them.
@Geri 9:28pm
I have previously accepted that I was in a minority position within the Scottish Independence movement on Freeports. The rest of you will catch up later. I could be wrong but I doubt it.
Geri, you put in a turn but while you can lead a horse to water, you can’t make it drink (plus this place is never short of the bad faith argument, is it?)
– anyone can just google for “freeports richard murphy” and read the first two articles.
Then if you want you can say :
whit diz he know – he disnay know whit hes talkin aboot …
and there you have it. But who do you want to believe? The tories?? the people who told you brexit britain would be booming with trade deals …
– except there are none forthcoming; this was reported on bloomberg, but not the UK press. With tragic irony, the same day bloomberg reported the EFTA countries (our dudes) had signed a 100B trade deal with India.
The tories always claimed – “you might hate us, but we can RUN THE SHOP”; well, they can’t and they never could (- they even started the great war since they got overtaken by german industry)
Corporations are there to make profits for their shareholders only, with no wider societal common good; to get any mutual benefit out of it, you need to regulate the markets and make people pay their taxes. Freeports piss all over this.
There are two word/phrases people really need to start using about our political leaders “satrap” and “comprador elite” – their job is to see the wealth extracted at minimum cost.
George Ferguson says: at 8:09 pm
“A disappointing response from you Dan. Wide of the mark. Typical of 10 years of SNP control. Methinks you have gone over to the darkside. Incapable of thinking there is another solution. I can gave you a solution to Grangemouth. Public energy ownership and Freeports. You are a common weal guy. I am a Scottish Public wealth guy.”
Jeezo, soz if you actually thought I was serious with that higher energy tariff suggestion…
You seem to be awfy quick to jump to conclusions and pigeon hole folk. I have my own mind and having previously been involved with the SNP, I could see firsthand it was clearly becoming captured and left when it was clear it had become unsaveable.
CommonWeal can produce some good interesting content, but I get kind of fed up with the pie in the sky “green” stuff they continue to trot out and feel it does their credibility no good at all.
I know you’ve had a lot on the last year, but you should recall I was eager to read your ideas and prospectus on regaining better control and management of Scotland’s energy generation and supply infrastructure but thought you’d put it off as had other more pressing matters to address.
There was another lad in Alba who was supposedly going to put something together re. Energy, but when I asked for the bones of it there was nothing significant and that I didn’t already know forthcoming.
Scotland desperately needs some sensible engineering minded people in positions of influence to shake things up.
You’ll have read about the broken village sewer pipe. We’re into 11 fucking weeks now and got to be well over £300k spaffed away and still no sign of a remedy. Not even a temporary repair of someone putting on a set of waders and gauntlets to enter a few feet of stillwater and install a replacement section of pipe, something my mate and I could have done within a day or so of me identifying and reporting the fault.
The 24/7 attending tanker crew are now either so fucking bored or uninformed that they are still on occasions allowing hundreds of gallons of effluent to be pumped into wrong watercourse. Got more pics and vids of this happening on Sunday morning when I cycle down daily to monitor water level, and remove the dam the cunting beaver builds every night, so the water level will drop and allow access and save yet more money being spent on installing a coffer dam and pump system.
It is incredible that it appears nobody in any position of power has the gumption to expedite and fasttrack a solution.
I understand these organisations are obligated and supposed to ensure taxpayers’ money is spent in the most beneficial and efficient way. The money spent so far on just the holding procedure could have put a new robust future proof solution in place two times over but for all the ridiculous box ticking bureaucracy which is just hemorrhaging money.
It appears Scottish Water, Clancy Docwara, & SEPA don’t really give a fuck about it all, and the weeks roll by and the cost to the taxpayer increases by many many thousands each day…
@Confused says: 14 May, 2024 at 10:06 pm
they even started the great war
Here you go, Confused, some facts.
Mind you don’t drop them on your tootsies, or burn yourself with them. You won’t be used to dealing with facts. Too unfamiliar a fare for you, I guess.
“The years immediately preceding the Great War were a tumultuous period in British politics. By July 1914 a Liberal government had held office for more than eight years, having won a landslide general election victory in 1906 and two further elections (with much reduced majorities) in 1910. Shored up by a “Progressive Alliance” with the recently-formed Labour Party, the Liberals had embarked on an ambitious programme of social, fiscal and constitutional reform.”
Google and the internet are your friends, Confused.
Bigoted ignorance, no matter how seductively attractive you may find it, won’t ever deliver your iScotland.
All english are tories, mainy mc mainface, whatever they call themselves – and missing the point as usual (the vaunted economic competence of westminster)
the true cause of the great war was the diplomatic tripwires the people who ran the empire carefully setup against germany; domestically they ran rampant anti german propaganda through the times in the years previous, running a playbook created for the “jameson raid”
in short, germany was “set up”; it was an upstart competing power that the empire needed to slap down – the british following their historical “support the second power in europe” strategy
all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons, the “smartest men in the room”
read a fucking book mainy mccuntface and sell your old commando comics on ebay, ya twat
@Dan says:14 May, 2024 at 10:15 pm
It is incredible that it appears nobody in any position of power has the gumption to expedite and fasttrack a solution
It’s also incredible that nobody in a position of powerlessness has the gumption to organise, protest, communicate, and generally kick up a stink and not stop until somebody in power gets moving to fix it.
TBQH, it’s the latter that’s the root cause of the former.
If you’re the only one in your local area that cares, Dan, that leak will go unfixed for a long time.
Excerpt from a piece by a local councillor on the Teesside Freeport, opened in 2021;
“The theory was that before long the North East of England would boast a British-style Singapore as Teesside became one of the big winners from the new post-Brexit freedoms. Then the lavishly presented publicity hit a small problem. Reality.
Full-scale decontamination of the area was not deemed financially viable, so they decided to do the minimum necessary and dump much of the mess out at sea. Cleaning up former industrial sites by moving polluted soil and river silt and then dumping it somewhere else has created huge problems. A cocktail of toxic materials was unearthed and taken to a new location where it was freshly released into the environment.
Chemicals such as pyridine had been lying undisturbed for decades in landscapes that were badly polluted but stable. Stirring up this material reactivated its impact.
Shortly after work began on the freeport, with the movement of contaminated material coinciding with routine dredging of the river mouth, a huge amount of local sea life began to die and bodies were washed up onto a number of beaches mainly in North Yorkshire.
The die-offs didn’t happen at one location for one brief moment in time. They have been going on for months now and they have destroyed the livelihoods of fishing communities along the coast and put local tourism at risk. No one wants to visit a resort where the beaches are covered with the stinking corpses of sea creatures.
As if this ecological disaster wasn’t bad enough it has now emerged that though the cost of conducting much of the clean-up has fallen on the public, ownership of the now improved land has been given away for less than £100. Put bluntly this would mean an asset now worth around £100mn belongs to a developer who would have recorded £99,999,900 profit on the deal the day it was signed.
We therefore have to ask a different set of questions. What was going through the minds of the public officials who authorised this land sale? Were they put under any pressure by ministers? Who knew that this land was being sold off on the cheap and who selected the recipients of such extraordinary largesse? Has anyone who received this money donated funds to any political party which had members involved in the decision-making process?
And most important of all, what safeguards are being put in place to make sure the next ‘freeport’ that is developed isn’t an equally squalid tale of failed controls over public money and lack of care for the environment and the creatures living in it, as well as those whose livelihoods depend on them?”
Shit face
Germany had an empire. The Tories are persistent agitating greedy warmongering colonisers. Regardless of the government in power at the time the Tories were carping from the sidelines to go to war & a weak government capitulated.
Nothing changes with those satanic fckers. Spoon face was busy trying to start a nuclear war just last week if you want a more up to date version. In a country that has fck all to do with him other than what scraps he can leech from the ruins of the failed American empire.
An eejit that even the yanks laugh at on geopolitical news sites & the yanks told him to STFU & sit down as they scrambled to put him back in his box.
Tories are the bad guys. They always have been. They love a bit of war & a good starvation. It’s not a good day at the office otherwise.
“read a fucking book mainy mccuntface and sell your old commando comics on ebay, ya twat”
LMAO!
Well said.
Dan
Dunno if you’ve tried but have you contacted your local councillor?
I was informed before that is who gets stuff done far quicker than trying various other departments.
It is a joy to watch the knowledge, intelligence and wit of Confused combine in an inimitable and unique style to form devastating points in argument.
I’m glad Confused is on the side of Scottish independence.
James
Jeez what a shit show.
Aye you can bet the Tories will have cashed in on that nightmare. On every single stage.
Wait to they start on Scotland. England’s dumping ground for all manner of nasties. Fck only knows what they’ll unearth but they’ll not care as long as their bank balance is looking healthy.
Confused @ 10:53 pm
“all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons”
Yes, independence is always ‘a cultural emotion’ (Fanon), including for the ‘celtic periphery’ nations and cultures subjugated within the cultural hegemony of the ‘UK internal colonialism model’ (Hechter).
@Confused says
“All english are tories”
Course they are! Why didn’t you say that earlier? Then all of this arguing could have been avoided.
Tell you what, Confused. I’ve heard of “strength through joy”, but “strength through bigoted ignorance” is a new one for me. I’m keen to learn more.
Tell me how it’s going, for you personally, and for the Indy movement generally. Be honest now!
@Geri says: 14 May, 2024 at 11:39 pm
“Jeez what a shit show”
Dinna fash yersel.
They’re English, so they’re all Tories. Confused will keep you right on this.
A bit of pollution, sea life die-off, trashed local livelihoods and mega financial ripping-off is frankly too good for the “satanic fckers”.
“All English are Tories”
LOL, You haven’t met my missus. Very English and the complete opposite of anything Tory. Her family’s fairly well off tae, unlike meand my lot who grew up in the ex-mining SE Edinburgh Ghettos.
See, it’s incoherent dribbling pish like this that puts folk like me off supporting Indy.
@ Alf Baird says: 15 May, 2024 at 7:16 am
With respect, I don’t think you understood Confused’s post.
When he wrote:
“all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons”
he meant “all”. Everything, everywhere. He wasn’t just writing about here. He was writing about the world.
It’s a very interesting view point and as a reader of books, Confused must have a lot of evidence to back up his claim.
Perhaps somewhere in these books, there will be accounts of the wars and strife that bedeviled everybody everywhere long before the Anglos were ever invented. I look forwards to the integration of that fact into Confused’s Grand Unified Theory Of History.
Summary – Through all of human history, some big English bastards did it and then ran away.
Regarding your ‘celtic periphery’, can we expect Scotland to break up after Indy? As a native (rusty) Gaelic speaker, I would hate to suffer too much longer under the “cultural hegemony of the ‘Scots-speaking, Glasgow-Edinburgh-centred, internal colonialism model’ (inspired by Hechter)”.
It’s fine if you believe that Scottish home-grown colonialism is OK; all I’m really looking for here is honesty and facts.
Forgot to add in my last post – I otherwise agree with the general summing up of the Tory party by the above BTL commenters – Tories are warmongers, fear-spreaders, tax thieves, nation-wreckers and the very enemy of any sort of freedom or democracy.
Who the actual fuck votes Tory then?
All these English that “don’t vote Tory”
It’s amazing they’ve managed to fuck up the UK for decades when apparently nobody votes for them.
Do the entitled Englanders get double votes or something?
The English vote Tory. No one else.
The English like Tory.
They tick all their boxes..
Greed
Violent
Entitled
Racist
What’s yours is mine attitude
Warmongers
Undemocratic
Corrupt
Spiteful
Arrogant
The nasty party. Lower than vermin & they ain’t changed since. Only the English vote these cretins into power. Scotland ran them out until Roof the mooth stirred up her sectarian bullshit to bring out some knuckle dragging fuckwits to vote for her..
Spartan
That’s because they are.
Just ask every country they’ve stuck their nose into.
Ask India about the ppl they starved.
The tax havens (Panama papers)
Spoon face & Sunak unelected eejits.
Denying Scotlands democratic votes on indy.
Don’t make me laugh about democracy & freedom.. are you taking the piss? Lol
Nothing like judging a whole nation, eh.
I presume its the same reasons why a worrying number of folk across the UK vote Labour, despite the utter chaos that doing so invites, or the number of folks up here who despite an extensive litany of catastrophic fuck-ups and blatant corruption – not to mention doing zero to advance any argument towards independence – will, for some utterly bizarre reason, still vote SNP.
The lack of compulsory voting aided by the vagaries of FPTP aid this situation.
Shit face
“all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons”
he meant “all”. Everything, everywhere. He wasn’t just writing about here. He was writing about the world.”
That’s because it’s true & Alf will be aware of that because Scots have absolutely fuck all say on the matter of where they drag us.
The British Empire was on its last legs. It had absolutely no need to enter WW one but meddled anyway because Germany was battering France & would’ve won Europe.
Roll on WW two & the yanks stepped in & took the empire off the Brits & continued colonising as we see to the present day with it’s poodle snapping looking for some spoils.
The yanks & the Brits carved up what was left of the German Empire & the yanks carried on to the present day invading, occupying & overthrowing governments that eejits like you cheerlead even today.. they picked the wrong bear to rattle this time..
That’s my simplified version. Confused will know a far more evidenced account if he can be arsed to answer your baiting..
@ Hatey
Ach, piss off with your shite trying to place any blame on me, when you have zero idea just how much time and effort I have already put in to getting the issue resolved.
I identified and reported the fault to Scottish Water because it was an issue with their infrastructure which they are responsible for and need to rectify.
A week or so after SW sending out 3 “engineers” who I met on site and explained the problem to they do fuck all and SW say nothing further needs done. So I report Scottish Water to SEPA who then try to cover Scottish Water’s arse and ask what would I know anyway.
Bad move that as I have pics and vids of the issue and as I was a hydraulic / mechanical engineer working in oil industry on all sorts of pumps and pipelines, and have previously gone through all manner of hoops and regulations when I installed a water main to serve parts of the village, I might just have a fucking clue what I am talking about rather than some dumb idiots that think they can lie about getting a successful dye and pressure test on an 8 inch pipe of over a mile in length when it is completely fractured part way along…
So vid sent to SEPA who then have to have to believe me, and they get SW to reopen the case, and 3 weeks and 50,000 more gallons of effluent pumped into wrong watercourse later, SW eventually through their contractors get the tanker on site.
Tanker collection procedure is flawed resulting in pollution still occurring and the water is now a dead zone due to effluent contamination.
It’s not my job to fix this because I am not authorised to do so, even though I could have put in a temporary repair because it is pretty basic stuff which would have stopped further pollution and saved 300 grand. It is however the jobs of the people working and getting paid within these organisations that are meant to be overseeing and fixing the issue.
The Scottish Environmental Protection Agency (clue in the name) should be all over this ensuring the procedures put in place by Scottish Water and their contractors are sound. They ain’t…
It’s a clear dereliction of duty of all those involved to properly manage the situation and ensure no more pollution occurs.
If any private company was caught polluting and continuing to allow pollution to occur you can be sure they would be in serious trouble with fines or their operating license restricted or revoked.
Spartan
Labour & the Tories are exactly the same.
Anytime there has been a Labour government they shit themselves & just keep things exactly as they were until it’s time for the Tories again.
They’ve done this repeatedly & only recently have they been honest that they’ll change absolutely nothing if they’re elected. So they’ll keep all the nasty parties toxic policies & increasingly police state & free for all tax haven freeports.
Both parties despise Scotland. If only it wasn’t full of Scots. Both parties have denied Scotlands democracy & actively intervened to thwart our referendums. The idiot “count the dead as a no” ref, Better Together & ALL democratic mandates from Scotland since 2014 to present day. Even crawing that Devo is permanently off the table. We’re getting nothing.
Scotland is signatory to that place even standing. Who gave them such authority to deny democracy & freedom & bind Scotland up in a Scotland Act. So much for partnership.
No one but themselves. They’re entitled eejits & that’ll never change regardless of the rosette they wear.
The UK is a one party state & it’ll never change.
Geri @ 8:18 am
“They tick all their boxes..
Greed
Violent
Entitled
Racist
What’s yours is mine attitude
Warmongers
Undemocratic
Corrupt
Spiteful
Arrogant”
Quite, and we might refer to these rather dubious ‘attributes’ or cultural behavioural traits as fundamental to the ‘ideology and values’ of the imperial oppressor (Memmi), in which domination of a people and widening of inequalities is guaranteed.
And, when it comes to the crunch, i.e. ‘whenever colonialism is imperiled’ (Fanon) such as through the rise of an independence / liberation movement, we know from past and recent history that the oppressor tends to be lacking in ‘human values’ as it grasps for ‘its fascist roots’ (Cesaire).
Russ Abbot used to dress up as what he thought was a typical Scot in some of his ‘comedy’ sketches – very popular with English audiences at the time. His attempts at pretending to be Scottish were never very convincing…either.
Personally. I always thought Abbott’s ‘C U Jimmy’ sketches were bordering on, if not actually, racist and not in any way funny. Hugely popular in England at the time, though.
Hatey McHateface @ 7:53 am
“he meant “all”. Everything, everywhere. He wasn’t just writing about here. He was writing about the world.”
This seems pretty accurate considering the brutal global imperialism still of the anglo-saxon axis, primarily France, USA and England as Britain; ‘le capitalisme anglo-saxon or le monde anglo-saxon’. The Pict and Gael and many other oppressed peoples and cultures are quite different, albeit aye used and abused for anglo-saxon corporate colonialism purposes:
“Crucially, Anglo-Saxon has become closely tied to ideas of French national identity. To put it simply: when the French refer to ‘the Anglo-Saxon’ or use the term as an adjective, they are usually talking about themselves. The Anglo-Saxon is a mirror on Frenchness; it is France’s alter-ego and often its most feared enemy.”
link to aeon.co
“Only the English vote these cretins into power. Scotland ran them out until Roof the mooth stirred up her sectarian bullshit to bring out some knuckle dragging fuckwits to vote for her”
Aye, Geri. Thon English an thaim wha wid barter ther sowels tae see thaimsels as such.
Professor Alf Baird
Nobody can credibly associate themselves with the peddlers of such dross.
“All English are Tories”
“all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons”
Get a grip of yourself, man.
Dan says
“piss off with your shite trying to place any blame on me”
Is that what I did?
I thought I suggested you were actually the only one who cares. Right where I wrote:
“If you’re the only one in your local area that cares”
Jeezo, Dan, Man, chill, why don’t you.
I know Professor Baird would have us all converse in Scots (never Gaelic) and I’m starting to glimpse why. Words in common English all seem to have different meanings on Wings BTL.
It’s starting to seem quite simple why nobody understands what the SNP is doing, and the SNP don’t understand what Scots want.
Scottish education has atrophied to such an extent that plenty of Scots no longer understand what words mean.
“Nobody can credibly associate themselves with the peddlers of such dross.
“All English are Tories”
“all the horrors of the last century follow from this “cunning plan” of the anglo saxons”
Get a grip of yourself, man.”
Yep, we’re deffo back to the chimps’ tea party shit-flinging stage here (and it is genuinely and unintentionally hilarious to be fair). Ironic indeed that the quality of the unhinged BTL comments in this thread align closely with that of the Scottish government, I’d say.
Any serious comment/input is utterly superfluous, how you have the gumption to wade into it day in and day out I’ll never know. Fair play! 😀
Hatey McHateface @ 11:32 am
“Scottish education has atrophied to such an extent that plenty of Scots no longer understand what words mean.”
Indeed, and certainly the case for Scots words, which irna lairnt tae bairns in the schuil, such as unkennin or doun-hauden e’en. Anely 1.6 million Scots speakers left according to the last usable national census in 2011, less noo A wad jalouse; which implies that at least two thirds of ‘Scots’ are Anglophones, an inevitable and intended consequence of linguistic imperialism which alters a peoples identity.
It remains that not that very long prior to the UK Union, according to Scots language expert and historian Billy Kay, Scots was the main language of parliament and discourse in Scotland whilst the language of elites in England was still French.
” whilst the language of elites in England was still French.”
Alf, do you think the English are aware they are really the French under a different name?
Parlez vous Française, Angleterre?
Shouldn’t
AngleterreEngland really be called Normanland and the English Normans?The British Empire might well have been called the Norman Empire. Although that does sound a bit like a third rate English sit-com.
– cheers Northcode – BIG HUG (“no homo”); I like your posts too, interesting and high brow, but sometimes you need to stick the boot in to the types round here.
the people who ran the empire in that prewar period were the rhodes/milner group, the people who setup the entire commonwealth/foreign policy apparatus; they did a lot of politics, mind, and did so – “across” the political “divisions”. I refuse to make distinctions where there are none, or it comes down to the width of a rizla paper.
– there has always been a bit of a “uni party” about english politics (post civil war, that was in earnest) and the tragedy of labour is how quickly they joined it
the basic idea of the imperialists was a one world empire, but federated, with britain in charge; britain to be a “new athens”. They also had an implicit “master race” ideology about themselves. They would run the world, because they were the best people to do so, obviously. There would be “democracy”, but only as much as was -good- for people.
looking back it is amazing how the desperate thrashings of britain instigated (not always directly, but britain liked to set things in motion, then stand back, or take advantage of something organic, then re-direct it) – ww1 (to take down germany), bolshevism (to take down the czar/great game/india and central asia), nazism (to stop bolshevism taking over europe), ww2( take down nazism, once it threatened the world) – do you see a pattern? Now chuck in quickly, since I am skipping over so much, bullet points – zionism (jews as our spartans), the lawrence of arabia shite to arm up the most violent and extremist (wahhabist) muslims to fight the turks (which leaves them with the worlds greatest natural prize and leads to – TA DA – “islamic terrorism” today as the americans copy this … boko haram, isis, etc) – and just to mention, no details – africa, china, the caribbean, australia, ireland … the british empire is like a psychopath with OCD, it can’t “leave it alone” and “everything belongs to us”; not even mentioned america, the franchise gone rogue which stole all its ideas. You dig into almost anything and there is the empire at the bottom.
Despite all this maniacal activity, it still ended up broke and finished, only to be overtaken by something arguably worse (but won’t last as long) – imperial amerika
– but no one, at least receiving an education in the UK, has an inkling of all this; these were just “things that happened” and plucky britain, minding its own business, had to step up to “fight tyranny” and ultimate evil … the myth of “clean hands” is a powerful one (and the british propaganda has always been top notch) – the main element being an intellectual class which was determinedly incurious at tactical points, and disciplined in not writing about “distasteful events”; one famous writer, when visiting ireland during the “famine”, travelled in his carriage with the shutters down, in case he saw anything which upset him.
All british history, written by englishmen, has run through it the “anglo reality distortion” field – which is “we are the good guys – it wasn’t us, it was the foreigners … ” – the way they would tell it, it sounds like “international BOB a JOB”, a vast philanthropic enterprise, for which the world should be grateful.
– but you can sum it up, derive all this from a basic principle – the anglo saxon wants to steal your stuff, and hang onto it, whatever it costs.
When I watch these solemn ceremonies at the cenotaph (these rituals were created by rhodes-ians) I see murderous criminals washing their hands clean in the blood of others, it sickens me.
The enterprise, for it was always a business, starts, rooted in the reformation/civil war, but the “big bang” event was the “glorious revolution”/formation of bank of england and crucially, the act of union; as chomsky put it, “the celtic periphery was subdued”. This is when trade and commerce becomes “capitalism” and empire goes turbo.
Our true opponents, the UK deep state, are the ideological (and possibly biological) descendants of the british imperialists; they lack the hard power they once had but retain every memory and intellectual weapon, which is what you are really up against. And just to re iterate :
– they stole our stuff and they intend to keep it.
That is all. While it seems complicated and many would like to over complicate it further, it really is that simple.
What do you think happens next, given how much of a mess our “elites” have created? We don’t want to be attached to this ball and chain when it goes down, and on the way down, if still attached, you do realise they will take even more of what is ours to try to save themselves.
@ Alf Baird says: 15 May, 2024 at 12:00 pm
Scots was the main language of parliament and discourse in Scotland whilst the language of elites in England was still French
Sure, but then the language of elites in many places was French until quite recently.
“French was the lingua franca of European literature in the 18th century, and French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century, until its recent replacement by English, and as a result is still a working language of international institutions and is seen on documents ranging from airmail letters to passports. For many years, until the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Denmark joined the European Economic Community in 1973, French and German were the only official working languages of the organization. French was also the language used among the educated in many cosmopolitan cities across the Middle East and North Africa.”
Here’s a link which puts it all in context:
link to english.fullerton.edu
They spoke French at the court of the Tsars, and in other surprising places. For reasons made clear in that link, they probably still do.
@ Confused says: 15 May, 2024 at 1:19 pm
That’s quite a screed – I hope to live long enough to read it!
Haha, but seriously:
All of it negated by one simple and briefly stated fact. Write that screed in plenty of countries around the world (and you know who they are) and you would be disappeared by this time tomorrow.
“stick the boot in”
In yer dreams.
Anyhoo, there’s a new article up about one of the vacuous numpties you and your fellow travelers have been inflicting on Scotland for the past decade and more.
I suggest you make yourself useful and get over there to “stick the boot in”.
Shitey face
It’s the English private school education you should worry about.
Look at the dross they churn out to be supposed world leaders & PMs. An imperial role they think they still have while the world watches on & pisses themselves laughing at the yap Fae little England.
A chronic sense of entitlement with a heavy dose of imperial empire & slaughter to anyone who says otherwise seems all they’re qualified in. Oh aye, & theft.
The G7 is in the same shit again as it was back in WW1 & 2 so off the colonisers go looking for someone else to invade, plunder, occupy, overthrow, sanction, install regime change, kill, starve, evict, meddle in elections, threaten, destabilise.
This time it’s China & BRICS that’s threatening their wee club. Whaaa Whaaaa they’re doing better than us. Let’s go pick a fight cause they’re not ummmm “democratic” Aye, that’s it…that’s the word they don’t know the meaning of & thinks no one else does either.
& Suckers like you fall for it all over again..
Confused
“but no one, at least receiving an education in the UK, has an inkling of all this; these were just “things that happened” and plucky britain, minding its own business, had to step up to “fight tyranny” and ultimate evil … the myth of “clean hands” is a powerful one (and the british propaganda has always been top notch)”
LOL
Well said.
America is another one that was just minding it’s own business. Death & destruction just happens to follow them everywhere they go. It’s absolutely nothing to do with setting up over 700 military bases around the world & funding terrorism. No siree…
Thanks for the hug, Confused. I happily accept it in the no-homo spirit in which it was given. 🙂
And thanks for the compliment, I appreciate the sentiment. If the cards had fallen differently for me as a kid all those centuries ago I would have chosen an academic path, but alas it was not to be.
I’m saving your latest, magnificent, post @1:19pm for future reference and will take a bit of time to fully digest its contents. There’s a lot of good stuff in it.
I have no problem whatsoever with the use of ‘evocative and exotic’ language, especially where it serves a noble purpose – as it did in one of your more recent comments; a comment I thoroughly enjoyed reading.
The empire was never about creating a single controlled state, it was all about protecting trade and money, sometimes even against the express wishes of the government at the time.
Before blaming it all on historical Westmonster again remember that Scots were some of the biggest contributors to its expansion!
When people try to justify and obscure the HORRORS that the empire inflicted on others they ALWAYS like to include the puir wee Scots, for without them these atrocities would never have taken place, they always like to include the Scots as empire builders without separating the greed driven imperial colonialists from the ordinary man in the street, who was more or less a slave themselves and who didn’t have an arse in his troosers or a pot tae piss in
BUT it serves as some form of diversionary tactic to justify the empire, because Scots took part in it as well, albeit through enforcement
twathater
It’s possibly a form of Scapegoating and an interesting phenomenon.
This from Wikipedia:
I leave it to the reader’s imagination to determine who is the ‘goat’ and who is the ‘priest’ in the context of the part Scotland played in the business of an empire.
And from the Biblical to the medical – again from Wikipedia:
I believe this is what we see, at least in part, when an argument is presented to us which attempts to blame the Scots as an entire people for the unethical conduct of a relatively few of its members .
Cheers lads, I’ve got it now.
A small number of Scots were forced (enslaved) to join with the colonialist, imperial stuff.
But every Englishman enthusiastically and voluntarily joined in.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Shitey face & Rob
Has it escaped yer notice Scots have fck all say in parliament & never have?
Take modern day colonialism & human trafficking, which the English are still very much part of as the USAs bitch, do Scotlands reps get a say? Hold a balance? Even get to see classified documents of the English latest intentions to bomb the fck out of something?
Do we fck. We get told to shut it & sit down. Despite being an equal partner to the union & that parliament & I dunno if it’s escaped yer notice but lately the Tories have decided not to even bother with the parliament bit at all now & just go for it & tell us all later..
& The military take an oath to his/her Maj. The little ppl don’t get a say either. They don’t have titles, land & other countries priceless artifacts adorning their walls from invasion when they get home..
But some good news – they’ve wised up & not signing up to pointless wars. You can thank the USA for overplaying their hand that will finally burst their balloon.
If the general view of most Scots was as a good number of folk here seem to think it just confirms me in my opinion that changing my mind about the indy ref from originally voting yes in 2014 has been justified, this is not how most Scots think at the moment.
It’s like reading the white rose or flat earth societies forum, entertaining but completely tin hat stuff.
You are never going to convince folk to vote for independence until can show a good reasoned argument to justify it, that looks a long way off at the moment!
“You are never going to convince folk to vote for independence until can show a good reasoned argument to justify it”
Didn’t I just give you one?
Absolutely zero say in parliament.
Absolutely zero say on the world stage.
Absolutely zero democracy.
If you don’t think that’s reason enough then LOL Fcking sit down & gies peace with her flat earth shite..
Rob @ 12:36 am
“You are never going to convince folk to vote for independence until can show a good reasoned argument to justify it, that looks a long way off at the moment!”
You could always tell them about their artificially low GDP-per-Capita, which explains the likely extent of ‘colonial plunder’:
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
And, that ‘colonialism is a crime’, as well as ‘a scourge’ on a people, i.e. a ‘form of punishment’.
Alf,
Great article, thanks.
I didn’t come on here to defend the Union, but to see the argument for independence.
However the arguments above are not valid.
We have representation in WM in proportion to our population, that is essentially democracy, you may not like what the majority are doing that that is a different argument.
We have representation to the scottish point of view in the SP and I think they are a bunch of clowns only with a motorhome instead of a clown car. That is also democracy even if you disagree with what they are doing, you voted the clowns in.
Exactly what “say” do you think a nation of 6 million or so will have on the world stage?
When I say provide a reasoned argument for independence I mean something that ordinary folk with understand and be interested in, not mumbo jumbo and echo chamber arguments to the mirror.
Explain in simple terms why we should attempt to vote for independence again and why we should vote yes this time.
I am genuinely interested to see the justification and support for another referendum demonstrated in somewhere other than the hardcore support as I can’t see it.
I don’t know who to vote for at the moment, the muppets in the SNP in recent weeks have proved they are even bigger muppets than I thought and I don’t want the greens anywhere near the levers of power.
Labour and Tory just come across and smarmy on the one hand and stupid on the other, respectively.
In fact based on the performance of the SG I would currently vote for its dissolution simply because it is doing little good and costing a huge amount of money doing it.
Convince me otherwise.
@ Rob
I notice you’ve mentioned the proportional share of “democratic” representation Scotland has in Westminster.
But if this 300 year Union has been so great for Scotland then can you explain why the Kingdom of England’s population has grown at a faster rate than the Kingdom of Scotland’s?
And those numbers don’t actually deal with the age demographic issues that Scotland has.
KoE population was approximately five times greater than the KoS at the start, but it is now approximately ten times greater. Terms of Treaty are that no constituent part of the UK should have an advantage over another…
“I didn’t come on here to defend the Union, but to see the argument for independence.
However the arguments above are not valid.”
Word to the wise, Rob, expecting the answers you seek from some of the BTL wallopers in here (especially at the fag end of the “discussion”) is a forlorn hope indeed. (Just take a peruse and scroll up, by way of example).
This is in no way to besmirch this site’s articles themselves; although I largely disagree with the Indy-based ones (not the GC ones), they are an informative read notwithstanding, often foretelling stuff that the MSM is clueless about and quite unlike anything you’ll get elsewhere.
“Exactly what “say” do you think a nation of 6 million or so will have on the world stage?”
Six million more ‘says’ than it has right now.
I started reading the articles recently as well and agree they are particularly good, even if I sometimes don’t agree with them.
The comment not so much, too much contradiction and lacking in reasoning.
The desired end goal is the be all and end all and any fact or circumstance not supporting this end goal is shouted down or dismissed.
Some folk do need to read through some of the stuff they have posted and look at it logically and through the eyes of a general member of the public and not someone already within the echo chamber.
Word to the wise, nobody cares what the act of union or history says about the union, what folk want is why now there should be independence and how it affects them NOW. Concentrate on that and convincing folk and then maybe you will get there but otherwise its never going to happen.
“Word to the wise, nobody cares what the act of union or history says about the union, what folk want is why now there should be independence and how it affects them NOW. Concentrate on that and convincing folk and then maybe you will get there but otherwise its never going to happen.”
100% agreed. It’s just so bleedin’ obvious – or so you/d think…
Got to laugh at the tag team disingenuous unionist trolling twats studiously avoiding answering folk that responded to their previous points and questions.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
And come on Rob, what say you to explain away the population growth disparity between the two Kingdoms that make the UK over the course of this supposedly equal Union.
Ha. “Studiously avoiding” answering what? Your dribbling, semi-literate stream of insults? I’ve got better things to do with my time. Never did suffer fools, Chief, and FYI I’m not about to start doing so now.
@Dan 5:38pm
Apologies for the late reply and for the misinterpretation of your comments. Yes I would like to be involved more with the Engineering input into a Public Energy Company, Grangemouth situation, Freeports etc. But I can’t even get to the Alba Spring Conference this Saturday. Spent the last 2 days looking after the grandchildren. My time is not my own anymore. My wife has agreed to a review. I need the time to advance my interests. And I am on the SNHS waiting list, it’s only been 16 months! This impacts on my abilities as well. Anyhow a nice dinner, a couple of beers and some relaxation tonight. Catch up soon I hope.
Can’t “studiously avoid” if my posts don’t make it onto the forum.
I suggest you go read a few books on the subject. Try ones on the clearances, industrialisation,emigration as a starting point.
Can someone tell me why STV are unable to show this as with normal protocols after the BBC on Friday night
link to x.com
Please share