Raise all of the flags
As a journalist, readers, sometimes you want to pep a story up a bit. From time to time, it’s perfectly legitimate to sensationalise a relatively minor aspect of something in order to draw attention to a worthwhile but intrinsically dull subject.
At other times, you find yourself in the strange position of having to talk a subject down as much as you can, because if you simply report the facts calmly and neutrally it’ll sound so outrageous and ridiculous and deranged that everyone will think you’ve gone full-on, tinfoil-hat, pencils-up-the-nose insane.
Today is the second kind of day.
It started when someone linked us to a page from Scottish Legal News:
One sentence in particular leapt out at us:
“The report advocates a new criminal offence that does not require any proof or intention of harm. It will be illegal to say the ‘wrong thing’ even if it is totally harmless.”
Those who were paying attention to the Scottish Government’s terrifyingly illiberal Hate Crime Bill a couple of years ago (now law, but not yet actually implemented) will have immediately felt a chill at those words. But when we dug down for the source material, what we found was so alarming that it’s hard to find measured and moderate words for it. Nevertheless, we’ll try.
The root of the story is a report produced for the Scottish Government by something called The Expert Advisory Group On Ending Conversion Practices (henceforth “the Group”). Its membership is a Who’s Who of the sort of people the Scottish Government likes to pay to agree with it.
The name at the top of the list, Blair Anderson of the Scottish Greens, will be familiar to Wings readers from one of the most disturbing stories this site has ever run.
LGBT Youth Scotland was at the heart of the worst paedophile scandal in Scottish history, and less than two weeks ago referred itself to the police over some extremely serious new allegations of historic grooming and child abuse.
It seems likely that Hannah Winter is a young woman in England with a catalogue of debilitating mental health conditions, including “Severely Deficient Autobiographical Memory (SDAM) […] a lifelong inability to vividly recollect or re-experience personal past events from a first-person perspective”.
Equality Network, Stonewall Scotland and Scottish Trans are all Scottish Government-funded pressure groups. Equality Network was founded by Duncan Hothersall, with whom alert Wings readers will be familiar, and its current director Tim Hopkins, and it lists Scottish Trans as a “project” of itself.
House Of Rainbow’s work is perhaps best described by its own board members rather than being subjected to our crude and inexpert attempts at summary, but its insight and relevance to the daily lives of ordinary Scots is, we presume, immediately obvious.
Dr Igi Moon is a psychologist opposed to anyone holding the view that “that any sexual orientation or gender identity is inherently preferable to any other”, apparently without exceptions, although it is not known to this site whether she shares the view of some psychologists that this includes paedophilia.
Dr Amber Keenan works at the Grampian Gender Identity Clinic in Aberdeen, which is the NE Scotland equivalent of the controversial Sandyford gender clinic in Glasgow, which itself was the main Scottish counterpart of the Tavistock Centre in London, which the UK government recently ordered the closure of on safeguarding grounds.
Dr Keenan has written about “evidence indicating that transgender identity-recognition develops analogously to that of cisgender children” and that children develop a transgender identity from the age of seven.
Dr Paul Behrens (pictured below) is a member of the Staff Pride Network at Edinburgh University, and he organised a “Stonewall Week” at the university in 2019, hosting speeches by among others, Nicola Sturgeon and Patrick Harvie.
(The university was one of several who cut ties with Stonewall in 2022, alongside many other organisations, in the wake of numerous controversies around the charity.)
So it’s already pretty evident that the Scottish Government has heavily stacked the makeup of the Group in order to produce the conclusions it wants. But what ARE those conclusions? On reading the Group’s report, it’s hard to avoid the view that if anything Aidan O’Neill KC has in fact played down its ramifications in his comments in Scottish Legal News.
We’d urge readers to read the report in full here, (there’s been very little about it in the mainstream media) but it’s one of the most frightening pieces of text we’ve ever seen in connection with lawmaking. One of the earliest paragraphs confirms O’Neill’s assertion that the report proposes to criminalise actions which neither intend to cause, nor actually cause, any harm to anyone.
The report recommends a definition of “conversion practices” so broad that almost anything will qualify. Of particular interest is the inclusion of “gender expression”.
Gender expression, of course, is simply how a person presents themselves in terms of dress and general appearance. So under this law, if your 13-year-old son is meeting some friends for a movie and comes down the stairs wearing only a nappy, a ball gag and an adult bib with “CUM SLUT” printed on it, and you say “You’re not bloody going out dressed like that!”, you’ll be committing a crime for which he can have you arrested as long as he claims it’s part of his gender expression.
(My mum reads Wings. Sorry about this, Mum.)
The Group’s report makes clear that any practices which affirm a person’s identity choices must not fall within the scope of the law.
But that neither children nor adults can ever be allowed – not even with their express consent – to participate in anything which might change any aspects of that identity.
No matter how troubled a child might be – and the evidence of co-morbidity of other mental disorders in “trans” children is overwhelming – they are not to be permitted any form of conversation which might resolve that issue other than by affirmation of their new identity.
In short, your children CAN consent to irreversible hormone treatments and surgeries rendering them permanently infertile and incapable of orgasm, and should be actively encouraged to do so, but they CANNOT consent to talking about their mental health in any way which might result in them changing their minds about that path, because to do so would render any person they talked to a criminal.
In other words, it will be legal to help them transition to a different “gender”, but a crime to help them detransition, or even to persuade them not to do it in the first place.
That sentence sounds self-evidently absurd and mad (although it does help to explain why we never got any answers to these questions), but it is the unequivocal recommendation of the report. Read the screenshots above. Read the full document for yourself. It’s simply what it says.
If your teenage daughter is uncomfortable with her developing body – as almost all teenage girls are – and even once suggests that she might prefer to be a boy, you will be committing a punishable criminal act under the law of Scotland if you so much as ask her why she feels that way.
The same will apply if you suggest she talk to a professional therapist about it.
The sanctions for such actions would include having your children taken away.
(The law would not require your daughter to object to your actions herself. Any random busybody could report you and trigger a police investigation.)
Everything above comes from the Executive Summary of the report alone. The subsequent 50 pages contain many more deeply disquieting revelations about what this group of people has demanded the Scottish Government impose on the people of Scotland, but the passages quoted in this article provide the gist.
Perhaps more worryingly, it is inescapably clear from the construction of the Group that the Scottish Government wanted it to produce these recommendations.
We urge readers once more to read the full report for themselves, because we’re not sure we can trust ourselves to stay calm about it.
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Out in the open now – anyone prepared to defend Sturgeon and her gang of deviants?
I do not understand all the details in this report so I would not wish to side for or against it.
I am very much in favour of protections for people who appear to be a bit different from what I consider to be mainstream of course what I consider mainstream may well differ from what others think mainstream.
I have no argument with people who want to change their gender it’s my opinion that there are many men on this planet who look feel sound like a woman and many women who look feel sound like a man and if in such circumstances the law can help a man live more happily as a woman and a woman live more happily as a man I am in favour .
Clearly meant people do not feel the way I do and see danger in helping such people.
I trust in the law until i dont.
In the name of all that is good…
Just when you thought gender politics couldn’t get any more fucked up.
Surely to god this insane drivel will not make its way into legiation. Surely we have enough sensible people in parliament to try and block it?
Or am I totally deluded at how rotten our government really is?
(My mum reads Wings. Sorry about this, Mum.)
It’s fine. This site is part of your identity and expression thereof, so if she dares be offended or in any way critical, just have her thrown in jail. Which is, in reality, what this is all about – creating ridiculous legislation with such sweeping powers that men like Blair Anderson and Duncan Horhersall, and the state which backs them, get to become all powerful in who they can accuse of ‘non crimes’ and have politically prosecuted for them. It sure as hell isn’t to help children. (Though of course, your Mum is perfectly safe because you won’t be one of the chosen ones allowed to use it to get anyone in trouble).
As someone who has campaigned for SNP & put in every effort to win Indy in 2014, I have resigned from the party and no longer regard independence as a priority. The GRR, the hate crime bill and now this are not good indicators of what and independent Scotland will look like. I am done.
@KT Lorimer — Nope.
Sturgeon seems intent on turning Scotland into a basket case.
Indeed Calum. I have read the report Rev and am almost rendered speechless. What kind of people are these to come up up with this claptrap. What new circle of hell is this.
If this is what an independent Scotland under Sturgeon is to be then I truly want no part of it.
This SNP government and all it’s hingers oan have to go. May whatever god you might believe in save Scotland from these truly evil people.
Just when you thought it couldn’t possibly get any worse, it does. Much, much worse.
So, telling people that cutting your dick/tits off might NOT be a good idea, is now illegal?
If a child who is cadaverously thin thinks they may be fat, will it be an offence to offer them therapy?
The GRR, the hate crime bill and now this are not good indicators of what and independent Scotland will look like. I am done.
Yet they are what is happening in colonial Scotland right now. And I have little to no doubt the entire point of them is to make people think as you do – that we can’t possibly have independence because the SNP are crazed zealots and we’ll need the UK government to come in and save us from them. As they will. It’s all political theatre, from a Tory gov and SNP colonial administration working together against independence. They took out Alex, turned against Wings, fought hysterically against a pro indy parliament last year. Now this is the next stage – totally trash the SNP, Greens and any idea of Scotland being able to have competent government, like the on Alex ran, carefully building it to demonstrate independence could work. This current SNP and Green coalition are the polar opposite: we’re going through this precisely because there was a danger of independence after Brexit. They’re killing that.
Nicola Sturgeon is not weak enough to be led by these deviants, which only means she is the one leading.
We would be creating an Orwellian hell if we allow these things to occur without resistance.
As far as I can tell most of us have already committed a crime for having an opinion.
This must end.
@rev
the comments system is going all weird; not only does the preview not work anymore (maybe only I used it) but it now seems to clear your handle and email once you post, then the posts disappear, then maybe reappear
As an old Wings friend was moved to say from time to time:
‘Reporting Scotland will be all over this.’
HNY to The Bloodnok.
😉
btw, both Blair Anderson and Duncan Hothersall were part of Better Together in 2014. As, obviously, was Murray Foote who is now SNP media spokesperson. Unionists have entirely taken over the SNP and Greens – they were always running the UK civil service arm of “The Scottish Government”. All of this is about wrecking independence and wrecking everything Alex Salmond’s SNP achieved.
“the comments system is going all weird”
Yeah, I know. And it says there are 0 comments when there are clearly comments. It’s the WordPress upgrade, trying to solve it. However, you do seem to be able to post comments even when your name shows as a blank – when you click Submit it’ll still recognise you and attach your name.
This is legal and criminal insanity being reported by disfunctional individuals some of home have no interest in safe communities and family life in Scotland.
I dispair for all parents of teens and pre teens now.
OMG, I am speechless!
This is an Orwellian nightmare. The horrors of paedophilia re being nurtured in Scotland, just one more step in the complete subjugation of the people. I don’t think it can get any worse than this because soon we will be unable to feel the pain of our inability to protect our own children: we will become automatons, hearing nothing, seeing nothing, and doing nothing.
For years now it has been impossible to discuss the negative aspects of homosexuality, like extreme promiscuity, STD rates, and “open” marriages and relationships. It is a no go area and possible would be prosecuted under the hate crime laws.
We used to call ourselves a FREE Society, sadly that is no longer the case and the apparatchiks in Holyrood will make damned sure that the jackboot is firmly pressed on our necks.
@ Cath: “…they are what is happening in colonial Scotland right now. And I have little to no doubt the entire point of them is to make people think as you do – that we can’t possibly have independence because the SNP are crazed zealots..”.
Spot on analysis, Cath.
It is terrifying – MI5 or whoever have done their job brilliantly.
Well this politically is showing the total incompetence of a so called Independence elected government. But as has been seen since 2015 it is rigged with and infiltrated with unionists in SNP, and civil service who use any minority agenda to undo the activism and work of the many.
So sickening to read.
Confused….. my comment just disappeared
I echo the first commentator.
Calum , perfectly put.
I’m still waiting on a decision from Ethical Standards regarding a complaint against Blair Anderson.
We should be able to openly discuss all gender and sexual orientation issues without fear of criminalisation.
At the moment many negative aspects of single sex relationships and gender transition are a no go area and could result in action under the hate crime legislation.
Be scared…..Be very scared.
All carefully planned by the colonists in WM and perpetrated by Unionists Sturgeon & Co. The empire builders dare not lose their last and final colony for Without Scotland’s assets they have no future.
Let us hope that the UK Government in Westminster just says no to this nonsense.
This is the brave new world that Sturgeon and Harvie want to foist upon your children and your grandchildren, and I’ll wager if this becomes law, that this will not be the end of their sordid agenda in Scotland.
Get them out of office at every turn.
Vote Alba, Join Alba
I can understand their logic that if being trans is just the same as being gay, then removing the child from emotionally abusive parents would be a good thing.
Likewise, by extension, that anyone can report child cruelty.
But is it really identity-destroying to ask, “Are you sure? Maybe it’s just a phase?”
And should parents be criminalised based on a stroppy teen throwing a tantrum and calling the police because their parents don’t instantly agree with them?
“I am what I am” is fine, but it shouldn’t be an offence to know nothing about what you ‘am’ and put your foot right in it as a result.
Now this is the next stage – totally trash the SNP, Greens and any idea of Scotland being able to have competent government, like the one Alex ran, carefully building it to demonstrate independence could work. This current SNP and Green coalition are the polar opposite: we’re going through this precisely because there was a danger of independence after Brexit. They’re killing that.
Bull’s eye, Cath (9.05pm).
Do you think that if we all wrote to The National about this, they would:
a] publish
b] change their tune about the SNP/FM?
If what SALVO is saying is true, and the sovereign community of the realm, via a convention of the Estates, can indeed overrule or depose a Scottish Monarch, Parliament and even a ruling from the Court of Session, then we could quite properly have a legitimate route to formally impeach Holyrood and sack the Scottish Government.
Even if we failed, (though I don’t believe we would), it would still be an entirely appropriate response to this perverted insurrection.
Sturgeon’s “government” is an embarrassment, a betrayal, and is making Scotland a laughing stock.
It feels like a battle is brewing where Westminster is going to start threatening the existence of Holyrood, and we true Independence supporters will find ourselves cajoled and manipulated into defending this toxic lunacy. Far better that we seize the initiative and instigate impeachment proceedings against Holyrood, and watch as the impeachment of a Vichy Holyrood Assembly escalates into a 2023 Claim of Right style Constitutional stand off which renders the Union untenable.
I’m just thinking about all the kids who, at a young age, say they are dogs or cats or dragons or unicorns and so don’t have to go to school. Just imagine if all the working parents had to start ‘phoning in to say that they can’t come to work because their kid is identifying as a diplodocus today and has to stay at home.
Could threatening the economy be the way to stop this nonsense.
As a friend suggested, how would the system cope if we all applied for a GRC at the same time?
Cath – I’m generally a believer in the cock-up rather than conspiracy interpretation of events, with simple incompetence being an effective explainer for most political shite.
It is beginning to be difficult to explain the level of malignancy emanating from the current SNP/Green administration in that way.
Hey, where did my comment go? Stupid upgrade…
TGC says:
4 January, 2023 at 8:45 pm
I do not understand all the details in this report so I would not wish to side for or against it.
I am very much in favour of protections for people who appear to be a bit different from what I consider to be mainstream of course what I consider mainstream may well differ from what others think mainstream.
“There is only one mainstream” Homosexuals make up 2% of the population according to the Office for National Statistics, the remaining 98% are the mainstream, Trans being so small a percentage to be unquantifiable. The mainstream are the hard working folks who struggle to bring up a family and bring them up straight and healthy in most cases. Family is important in nation building and we would do well to remember that.
So under this law, if your 13-year-old son is meeting some friends for a movie and comes down the stairs wearing only a nappy, a ball gag and an adult bib with “CUM SLUT” printed on it, and you say “You’re not bloody going out dressed like that!”, you’ll be committing a crime for which he can have you arrested as long as he claims it’s part of his gender expression.
Would the parents saying nothing and just ignoring the behaviour not also be a form of conversion therapy? 13 year old thinks parents saying nothing they must approve of this outfit that’s no good I’ll need to change into something they do disapprove of.
A lot of parents do employ this type of ‘conversion therapy’
Ignoring usually helps stop behaviors that your child is using to get your attention. This includes behaviors like throwing tantrums, whining, and interrupting. When you are ignoring, you do not look at your child or talk to him. Ignore all protests or excuses to get your attention.
So if a teenager asks a doctor for hormones or surgery & the doc suggests talking through options instead of immediately writing the script, they could be struck off?
Cath says:
4 January, 2023 at 9:05 pm
…Now this is the next stage – totally trash the SNP, Greens and any idea of Scotland being able to have competent government…
——–
Lets be honest, the Scottish Greens have been a walking disaster waiting to happen to Scotland ever since Patrick Harvie got involved with them and subsequently joined up with Susan Boyack of Labour and Jo Swinson of the Fib-Dems to join John Hein and other members of PIE on an outdoor stage speaking to defend paedophiles and to promote PIE in Scotland.
Harvie of course loved it so much he even accepted an Ian Dunn Memorial Award, Dunn being a founding member of PIE as well as a Labour activist, the award which to this day Harvie still owns according to the last snippet in the press I can find about it – https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20140621/281681137957838
These lunatic deviants are out in the open now – with SNP/SGP Scottish Government backing in order to push through dangerous legislation that the disgusting John Hein and Ian Dunn could only dream of.
Heaven help the current and future generations of children in Scotland, I certainly wouldn’t want to be facing all the queer-theory gender-nonsense that the SNP/SGP Scottish Government are throwing at them from the minute they enter the education system through to early adolescence and beyond.
I’ve absolutely had a ****ing enough of this government and their ideas for policy/law, its abouts time they were brought down by any means possible
Thanks for drawing this to our attention Stuart. I’m going to take some time to read this properly. One thing that can be said here is it looks like Scottish society is going to be subjected to a form of mass ‘conversion therapy’ whether it likes it or not.
Lastly, in terms of group dynamics and group outcomes, it’s certainly ‘impressive’ how 16 people meeting 8 times managed to produce such detailed proposals, at the end of which your average Scottish person will have some fairly ordinary conduct criminalized and our ‘beloved’ professionals will be threatened with career-ending withdrawal of their licences.
Cath @ 9.05
That is the only thing that makes sense to me too . Sabotage .
The ” don’t put down to malice …..” idea doesn’t apply here .
This is weaponised insanity . The chances of this degree of Independence damaging events/proposals happening through random acts of misjudgement or incompetence are too low to be credible
It’s as if a serious of explosive devices are being planted all around the very idea of Scottish Independence , timed to go off at various strategic times , when they can inflict maximum damage .
Brilliant piece of journalism , Stuart
Oddly-bizarrely-the amazing and incisive revelations of the Learned Editor (Whose politics re ‘indy’ I do not agree with ) no longer really surprise me; from the relative security of Wales I can view the ‘gender madness’ of my mother’s land and just be glad that I don’t live there
Guid luck and if you drop your loose change just kick it
God, I wish I hadn’t read that before bed. I’m going to be tossing and turning all night. The full horror has been revealed and it’s even worse than anyone thought.
” series ”
Aye , JGedd , it is , and this is just the beginning ; the madness won’t stop till the madmenwoman are stopped .
Get rid of NHS by starving it of money.
Get rid of Scots law by starving it of credibility.
Get rid of Scottish Parliament by starving it of popularity
One Nation to the rescue.
No wonder the likes of Hothersall are involved.
I hope we get hit by an asteroid.
Reading the embedded link on the ‘KC’ story… It is not hard to see who is the target…
“The SNP-Green alliance is considering plans to outlaw any activity – including parental chats, prayer and preaching – deemed to be an attempt to change a person’s sexuality or gender identity.
They appointed an expert group which made a series of recommendations for a new criminal offence, which it claims will be within Holyrood’s devolved powers.
Mr O’Neill, however, has said the proposals are “fundamentally illiberal” and “beyond the powers of the Scottish Parliament to legislate”.
In a written opinion for the Christian Institute, Mr O’Neill said the far-reaching ‘conversion therapy’ proposals would criminalise innocent parents and preachers.
Simon Calvert, a deputy director at the CI, said his organisation is preparing the ground for legal action similar to the named person challenge.
He said: “If the Scottish government follows the advice of its Expert Advisory Group it will be exceeding its powers and inflicting the most totalitarian conversion therapy ban in the world.
“Mr O’Neill says the proposals would have the ‘undoubted effect of criminalising much mainstream pastoral work of churches, mosques and synagogues and temples’ and that ‘Prayers and sermons would be criminalised if their content did not conform to the new State requirements’.
“Church workers, feminist activists, mums and dads – all sorts of innocent people could find themselves on the wrong end of a prosecution if this becomes law. And I think Scottish taxpayers will eventually find themselves picking up the legal bill for another court defeat.”
sarah says:
4 January, 2023 at 9:25 pm
@ Cath: “…they are what is happening in colonial Scotland right now. And I have little to no doubt the entire point of them is to make people think as you do – that we can’t possibly have independence because the SNP are crazed zealots..”.
Spot on analysis, Cath.
It is terrifying – MI5 or whoever have done their job brilliantly.
So you elect a bunch of lunatics who do lunatic things and you blame it on MI5. Use Occam’s razor.
We are doomed
Sorry something happened to previous post but I was saying that this blog should be on every bill post in the country. George Orwell would turn in his grave.
I came to Scotland on a dream of #independence, moving house, uprooting my protesting family & I joined @theSNP. Now I’ve just read this: wingsoverscotland.com/raise-all-of-t… & I’m in total despair. Anyone who remains in the SNP after this is flaming bonkers. They’re all insane. Please read.
It’s not just Scotland https://genspect.org/conversion-therapy-why-is-ireland-ignoring-the-experts/
Evenin Rev,
I think this may be supposed to be “herself”:
(The law would not require your daughter to object to your actions yourself. Any random busybody could report you and trigger a police investigation.)
However, at lest I got an email notification of teh post 🙂
As for the rest of the content..
I, honestly, don’t have the words…
This transgender and associated stuff is all a massive distraction from what should be the main or only issue: independence for Scotland. Hence I will not be reading any stupid document from the woke SNP government that has lost its way entirely. God bless Alba!
Believing that there are only two sexes, that sex is immutable and that no-one can literally change sex (ie believing in material reality) are protected beliefs under the UK 2010 Equality Act.
So let’s see them try and prosecute us for expressing these protected beliefs. Bring it on.
Mind you, it’s pretty soul destroying that UK legislation is the only thing that’s offering us any protection from these deranged lunatics in the Scottish Government 🙁
Is this set up so that when Independence polls at the crucial moment so a significant lead
The Unionists just have to show how SNP supports paedophiles and if you say anything against them you can be arrested.
That should ensure we loose any referendum with at least 99% of real people outside of their
party totally and utterly against it.
The better start building very large prisons quickly!
Is this more shit the SNP will claim was in their manifesto? Was it?
Truly Orwellian. And hasn’t it been kept well under the radar until now.
To all you conspiracy theorists. It was the SNP who tried to implement The Named Person act that was defeated in the courts. It was the SNP/Greens who introduced have introduced the GRB. Hopefully it will never pass the legal argument to become law. I will defend to the end the right of any parent to protect their child from this abhorrent legislation. Women Won’t Wheest especially whilst protecting our children.
“The law would not require your daughter to object to your actions yourself. Any random busybody could report you and trigger a police investigation.”
Maybe should be “herself” rather than “yourself”.
Gott nytt år!
Bizarrely it’s looking as though trans is the new normal.
You can’t question or even encourage a child to develop naturally and resolve any doubts they have about their gender identity or question the concept of being bound to outdated stereotypes.
However affirming any discomfort they have in they have about the way they’re maturing is to be encouraged.
I wonder if the same would be true of encouraging eating disorders.
Calum says:
4 January, 2023 at 8:31 pm
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
Yeah.
Pretty sure that’s what he would say as well.
Can I ask a question
Is Nicola a member of this community
So if I encourage my son to doubt his masculinity that’s fine but if I try to dispel any doubts he might have about his own masculinity I’m a criminal?
Trans people defiantly exist. There is no denying that – but for many who have jumped on the band wagon it’s about satisfying personal kinks imo. There are many confused and torn people out there who struggle with sexuality but the worst ones are the likes of John Nicholson who I suspect champions this sort of change in law for nothing more than to get himself off.
Cath @ 9.05 and 9.20 – sadly I think you are right and have summed up the situation pretty well.
“Maybe should be “herself” rather than “yourself”.”
That is QUITE CLEARLY WHAT IT SAYS. YOU MUST HAVE BEEN MISTAKEN.
It’s as if a serious of explosive devices are being planted all around the very idea of Scottish Independence , timed to go off at various strategic times , when they can inflict maximum damage .
Absolutely. Starting with what they did to Alex Salmond. Tbh, I’m just bored and weary with it all now. My anger is starting to shift from the absolutely obvious plants running the SNP & Greens now and onto the idiots who are still defending all this and whining about “Alex’s behaviour” when it’s been blindingly obvious what’s been happening for years now, and that he was a victim of state persecution. I expected so much better of Scotland, and especially the independence movement. It’s hard not to think we really are too stupid and not at all ready.
If we do ever gain independence, we’ll need a half way intelligent electorate, given our resources and the fact we have England for a neighbour and our strategic position. I don’t see that electorate.
Look. Can we just storm that temple of Luciferian degeneracy and burn it to the ground now, please?
The devil would be proud of these people. I’m sure that’s what they are aiming for.
Some humour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0N9LafN6-w&feature=youtu.be&themeRefresh=1
Why is Joanna Cherry still a member of this party?
Are they passing these laws so there is no chance of even criticising Nicola
Is there a connection between Nicola and this community
Are they passing these laws so there is no chance of even criticising Nicola
Is there a connection between Nicola and this community.
If you have wide and sweeping enough laws that anyone can fall foul of them, you entirely eliminate political opposition and debate, yes. Because you can get rid of anyone you want. And your zealous acolytes can get rid of anyone they want too. The classic way witch hunts ways worked. And every totalitarian state going.
Haven’t commented on Wings for a while.
Others have noted that the ferocity of the attack on the integrity and plausibility of Scottish independence, suggests an Imperial source and that we pose an existential threat to that Empire.
The only glimmers of hope I can see are the corollary, a parallel and its corollary.
The parallel being that the pervasive vileness of what continues to unfold, suggests an Evil source and that Independence or the Scots somehow pose an almost existential threat to that Evil.
The corollaries being that the Independence that is finally achieved, the Scots and Scotland that somehow survive and the Good that ultimately triumphs, are to be among the greatest and most noble creations this inventive nation has ever gifted to her people and to the world.
Each generation does not get to choose its battle, but must fight whichever opponent presents itself.
Don’t blame me….i voted Tory.
An “expert” on the SG’s group, Paul Behrens, has had a go, also on the Scottish Legal News website, at defending his handiwork:-
https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/paul-behrens-why-scotland-needs-a-strong-law-against-conversion-practices
Given the shallow nature of his “explanation”, it seems they’ll let any old eejit be a Reader in Law at Edinburgh University these days!
Apart from trying to present the issue via a slanted and tendentious description of the worst kinds of conversion therapy (electric shocks etc – well, duh, Paul, everyone is indeed against those things), he states quite plainly “Nor are these ‘strict liability’ offences: under our Recommendations, the perpetrators certainly have to intend the relevant acts.”
This is in stark contradiction to what the report actually recommends, so does Behrens not understand his own report or is he lying about it?
What next ? Lowering the age of sexual consent from 16 to 14 ?
It’s hard to be optimistic right now.
Sturgeon/the SNP’s support for genderism was well known before the last SP election. People still voted for them (and not, for example, for Alba). Either the electorate isn’t bothered by this stuff OR actually supports it. That’s a fact that has to be considered – a lot of SNP voting Scots support this or are, at least, indifferent to it.
And the Green vote went up in the last election. Now that Sturgeon has made them coalition partners, THEY are the ones most likely to benefit from any ‘both votes indy’ strategy. SNP voters who realise a list vote for the SNP is a wasted vote, will be looking at the Greens – who are the SNP’s partners in government and (at least technically) also pro-indy – and are likely to vote for them. I foresee this SNP/Green government being in power again after the next SP elections.
Of course there will be Westminster elections before then and Labour will almost certainly win – or, more correctly – the Tories will lose. But Starmer is such a total dud it will make no difference.
God alone knows what perverted horrors a second SNP/Green government will unleash, but it seems inevitable. It also seems the average SNP voter isn’t bothered by it – and possibly even supports it – and the average Green voter loves it.
November 2021:”Lived experience” and an announcement from Shona Robison.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-man-who-wakes-up-25501523
With apologies for being O/T. If a political party has as part of its agenda that it will commit crimes against certain sections of the community, anyone who votes for that party is colluding with that crime, and guilty of aiding and abetting it.
It is not a valid defence to say I was only voting for the good part of their agenda, and not for that bad criminal part of it. Sorry, but your vote gave them the power to carry out and implement that bad, criminal part. You are a collaborator in their crime. You have your share in the guilt attached to the crimes they committed.
If you do not oppose their criminal activity – if you know it is happening and you simply turn a blind eye, or if you refuse to take action you could have taken to stymie these crimes – you become a participant in them. Even a passive participant is a participant, and has some guilt.
If the criminal organisation makes it a crime (which can and will be severely punished) for you to oppose their criminal activity, it may be understandable that out of force and fear you failed to do so, and allowed yourself to be cowed into submission. But, really, your submission to their evil activity is nothing to be proud of, and can hardly count as a valid excuse – you know you should have done better, to protect the people who were always going to be the victims of these criminals.
And if, even out of force and fear, you become actively involved in implementing these crimes of the criminal organisation that has been able to take governmental power by what appear to be (but are not really) legitimate means, it is not a valid or sufficient defence for you to say that you ‘were only obeying orders’. If someone orders you to commit a crime, or undertake a clearly evil action against other human beings, you are duty bound to refuse. This is still the case no matter how dire the consequences of your refusal might be for you personally.
With regard to my apologies for being O/T I am sorry to have brought up the Nuremburg Trials.
It is not enough to say I only voted him in because he promised me a Volkswagen, and not because he wanted to persecute, mutilate, falsely incarcerate or even kill some person or persons or even whole sections of the population. If you knew that that is what he would do with the vote that you gave him – that is, with the power with which you clothed him when you endorsed him as the leader of your country – you are duty bound not to give him that vote.
And even if what is being dangled in front of you is something much more important than a Volkswagen, but what comes with it is a crime against humanity that will be imposed by brute force and totalitarian dictatorship, you have to eschew the carrot, not allow yourself to be deceived and vote agin these criminals and not collude with the crimes which is their real agenda, and which they seek to – and will – commit.
And if a majority of the population of any place were to vote in a criminal organisation to lead it, and thus to perpetrate its intended crimes, what happens is NOT that the government thus created thereby becomes right and just legitimate. To the contrary, what happens is that the majority of that population becomes criminal, and must be held to account for its crimes.
Even if the criminals gain a democratic majority, and therefore claim that their crimes were not crimes because the population endorsed them, thereby legitimising them, this is not true. Crimes against humanity are still crimes against humanity, even if a whole population agrees to them and colludes with those who perpetrate them. What happens in that case is not that the majority legitimately legalised these crimes, but that that majority which facilitated is itself criminal. And ought, therefore, to be held to account for the crimes that ensued.
Those who genuinely seek independence cannot afford to seek it at all or any cost whatsoever, no matter the consequences. And certainly not at the cost of turning the Scottish population (and thus the nation) into a criminal population (and a criminal nation).
If a political party which claims that it exists only to achieve something that I most desire – for instance the freedom independence of my country – but, in fact, it is lying, because it is only using that purpose for some other purpose which is in reality more important to it, and that other (for them more important, and thus primary) purpose is in fact intrinsically criminal and evil, I can’t vote for it. Who would vote for a smokescreen, especially when he or she knows – because there is plenty of evidence – that what lies behind that smokescreen is not at all the thing I want, and is actually opening up whole swathes of criminal, destructive and totalitarian behaviour, which I abhor and must oppose?
If I don’t oppose it, but support it, I don’t love my country at all. Despite my protestations, and even my intentions. Because this evil is the kind of thing that will enslave and destroy my country, not liberate and free it.
Again, with apologies for bringing up 1930s Germany. I shouldn’t have brought it up, even to myself – please leave me in my slumber with my beautiful, long held and dearly beloved illusion that it could never happen here. How consoling, like a glass of warm milk before bed-time – Here’s tae us, wha’s like us, an’ a’ that …. zzzz zzzz zzzz zzzzz
Not sure calling any of this Evil with a capital ‘E’ is going to achieve anything. Fighting and somehow being on the side of the ‘Good’ is worse. These people believe they are the Good too.
The way to frame it is political capture. These people are seizing their moment because Scottish democracy is in real trouble. The SNP is an authoritarian personality cult where Darth Sturgious is the authoritarian personality and Angus Robertson the mini-me sidekick. Together they utterly destroyed the SNP’s internal party democracy. Allied with the Greens, a party no-one votes for and who might be in favour of bringing back coal-fired power stations as well as extreme identity politics for all anyone knows and this is a perfect recipe for capture by a devious political lobby group.
Having emptied the SNP of its senior activists, NS now has to keep the Stirling Uni stormtroopers happy or the game will be up.
If the Tories were interested in gaining power, they just need to bide their time, create their own separate list party and wait for the other parties to implode as the Scottish voting public finally says ‘enough!’. It might seem like independence is within touching distance but people get tired eventually. Québec (I have Québécois relatives) came much closer to gaining independence than Scotland did but their movement is at the lowest of ebbs. The three age groups below the oldest are dead-set against Québec sovereignty with only those aged 65+ coming anywhere close to approval: in broad terms this is the exact opposite of Scotland’s situation. However, we might be much closer to that scenario than any national liberation moment. The SNP are charging ahead trying to please one tiny minority which could easily and quickly lead to a complete scunnerfication© of your average voter. Remember the recently passed Gender reform act is still not law. Its effects are not even close to being felt.
What we have now is one tired and weary SNP govt., completely out of ideas, no vision whatsoever, very little up and coming talent but surviving thanks to a complete absence of media scrutiny.
2014 seems like a century ago…
Is this the reason sturgeon opened up the GRR consultation to the world , to get these lunatics from elsewhere to turn Scotland into a deviant, paedophile , perverts paradise , where Scotland can compete with Bangkok for the sex tourism industry, I look forward to Edinburgh becoming a challenger to Khaosan Road
Unfortunately I think once customers experience the joys of the likes of Eilidh Martin on your post ” The Quiet Part Out Loud” the allure of the cold and rain may not be enough to get them to return
It is refreshing to see that our NEW SCOTS are determined to play their part in dragging (no pun intended) small “c” Scots into the 21st century, NOW I see why people insist that we should be so THANKFUL that these people have CHOSEN our wee country to live in
The enlightenment PART 2 is underway whether you like it or not, courtesy of nicla the woke princess and her disciples from ALL airts and pairts
Peter A Bell insists you MUST vote snp for indy
Tonight’s story on The Twilight Zone is somewhat unique and calls for a different kind of introduction. This, as you may recognize, is a map of the United States, and there’s a little town there called Peaksville.
On a given morning not too long ago, the rest of the world disappeared and Peaksville was left all alone. Its inhabitants were never sure whether the world was destroyed and only Peaksville left untouched or whether the village had somehow been taken away.
They were, on the other hand, sure of one thing: the cause. A monster had arrived in the village. Just by using his mind, he took away the automobiles, the electricity, the machines—because they displeased him—and he moved an entire community back into the dark ages—just by using his mind.
Now I’d like to introduce you to some of the people in Peaksville, Ohio. This is Mr. Fremont. It’s in his farmhouse that the monster resides. This is Mrs. Fremont. And this is Aunt Amy, who probably had more control over the monster in the beginning than almost anyone.
But one day she forgot. She began to sing aloud. Now, the monster doesn’t like singing, so his mind snapped at her, turned her into the smiling, vacant thing you’re looking at now.
She sings no more.
And you’ll note that the people in Peaksville, Ohio have to smile. They have to think happy thoughts and say happy things because, once displeased, the monster can wish them into a cornfield or change them into a grotesque, walking horror.
This particular monster can read minds, you see. He knows every thought, he can feel every emotion.
Oh yes, I did forget something, didn’t I? I forgot to introduce you to the monster. This is the monster.
His name is Anthony Fremont. He’s six years old, with a cute little-boy face and blue, guileless eyes. But when those eyes look at you, you’d better start thinking happy thoughts, because the mind behind them is absolutely in charge.
This is the Twilight Zone.
I wholeheartedly agree with what Cath said at 9.05 pm.
Independence is the only way to realise the things that most people need.
That is what must be cast out.
Anyone with two braincells to rub together might wonder if there were more pressing matters to attend to.
But there is not, this is their job.
I,at last, understand what is meant by the ‘circular economy’ that is the indirectly selected canadian minister’s remit.
Payment to indulge policy preferences where there is no need or desire amongst the lumpen.
The shrivelled husk of devolution, teeming with venal, careerist flies, is just the plaything of the colonists.
No doubt the prosecution of such offences will be held under juryless trials.
OMG. Just what on earth are these people thinking?? This is insanity on stilts.
But, just in case that isn’t enough, rapidly coming down the tracks (and we all knew this was the end game) is ‘trans age‘. Apparently a person’s ‘trans age’ is fluid, and may not correlate with their actual age. Indeed, apparently it may vary day by day, just as a person’s ‘trans identity’ can be fluid, according to these freaks.
So there we have it. The end game, ‘trans age’. ~Because then you can justify the thing that is behind all of this crap, PAEDOPHILIA. If a person is a paedophile (a minor attracted person according to Police Scotland!!), then they can simply claim they have a ‘trans age’ of say, ten.
This craziness and madness simply MUST be stopped.
The laws in the article above are NOT to ban conversion therapy. A long time ago, in many parts of the world, inclduing here, when being homosexual was illegal, many ‘experts’ tried to make people un-gay. It was called conversion therapy. That is where this all originated. Many techniques were used, inclduing electric shocks to folk, whilst looking, for example at pictures of men. The religious grtoups, especially in the USA, still to this day, have ‘counselling’ camps, where they try to ‘pray away the gay’. So, let’s be clear, when folk in the gay (not trans) rights movement originally campaigned against conversion therapy, it was against GAY conversion therapy, and all the cruelt involved. It was never shown to work to stop gay men being gay.
Now, these folk have hijacked THAT campaign, to make it into something completely different. Now, they want it to be to stop parents having a full role in the care and education of their OWN children. It has been turned into ‘gender affirmation’. IT IS BOLLOCKS. It really makes my blood boil, the way the gay rights movmement has been hijacked by these freaks and perverts. I mean, seriously, ‘Furries’, FFS.
Being gay has NOTHING to do with being ‘trans’ anything. So they can stuff their grossly misleading ‘lgbtqiaa+++’ pish. The laws proposed above are a perverts, paedophiles and fetishists charter, no more no less. They can GTF.
The SNP are done. I think they are in for one big shock come the next election. They have completewly abandoned Scottish independence, and instead seem obsessed with this gender nonsense. It is baloney, but dangerous, and MUST be stopped.
If you want Scottish independence, you simply will not get it with the SNP.
Thanks heavens we now have the ALBA party.
https://www.albaparty.org/special_assembly_2023_swf
Anyone still a member of the SNP is a a fool. Anyone still voting SNP is supporting dangerous changes using the law to impose queer theory within society.
Remember when Independence was the goal for the SNP?
Remember when theEnvironment was the focus of Green Parties?
Breeks @9:48, how do we go about this? What action needs to be taken and who should initiate?
Could go on forever how NS has been compromised (you to could end up shooting yourself in the head in the woods) and has for years worked energetically to create a situation where WM can step in to “restore sanity”, but what’s the point? It’s so obvious.
Divide and conquer shite. In the words of Hunter S Thompson, “Fuck these people.” They are not my government, and laws made by the criminally insane hold no sway over me. Let them try to stop me speaking my mind in my own country. I will see the psychotic cunts in court anytime they want. Enough is enough. And the unionist manipulators are loving this.
I can’t remember the last time I hear anyone say anything remotely positive about any politician . People are completely disengaged .
A fear is setting in and it’s widespread . I heard someone say recently people are becoming more self preserving . Avoiding any situation where they may inadvertently say the wrong thing and that includes avoiding people . That’s a first for Scotland and the unintended consequences highlighted . We will become less inclusive out of fear, an avoidance culture just to survive .
Disabled therapists, African preachers with HIV, mentally ill folk who want to cut their cocks off….this is an absolute grade-A fucking lunatic’s charter, clearly purposefully meant to destroy Holyrood’s credibility. It’s like the cast of a William S Burroughs book.
https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/therapy-today/2021/june-2021/the-big-interview/
So have we reached a point where ‘burden of proof’ is no longer required in order to be prosecuted?
On the premis that there are very few ‘model families’ out there, it would also present a golden opportunity for parents to rid themselves of what they regard as ‘problem children’, by simply making a reverse accusation. ‘My child said that the concept of us being a heterosexual Mum and Dad made them sick, and that we should change our gender identity to make them feel more comfortable.’
The child, not the parents, face criminal prosecution. The child is removed from the home, to the secret relief of the parents, and the care system is full of children who’ll always wonder what they did wrong.
If your teenage daughter is uncomfortable with her developing body – as almost all teenage girls are – and even once suggests that she might prefer to be a boy, you will be committing a punishable criminal act under the law of Scotland if you so much as ask her why she feels that way.
The sanctions for such actions would include having your children taken away
The above is an easy to understand example, which can be used in everyday conversation with any ordinary Scot we may encounter at work, at the bus stop, etc. etc.
My suggestion is that we internally monitor our conversations and if anybody says anything that will fall foul of the proposed legislation, then we break in and tell them they might soon be facing criminal charges. Then explain why, using an example like the one above.
You will likely be written off as a nutter at first. But if enough people do this, enough times, then the message will eventually get through to ordinary, politically unaware, Scots.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing
So, starting today, do something.
I used to call Holyrood a pathocracy: government by the sick. I now call it a malocracy: government by the evil. Holyrood was captured a long time ago. As a parliament of a small country under PR it was always going to be vulnerable to capture by malign globalist forces.
I have met The Very Reverend Dr Susan Brown, Church of Scotland. A very pleasant Christian woman. I find it hard to believe she has signed up to these proposals as a representative of the Church of Scotland. I have been critical already about the lack of moral guidance re the GRRB from the Church of Scotland. This is worse and necessitates an immediate intervention from Kirk Sessions all over the country. The Moderator concerns himself with constitutional wrangling and not a word on this proposal or GRRB? Something is seriously wrong in Scotland and the Church of Scotland.
Disgusting.
The more i think about it their ‘named person’ scheme was an attempt at laying the path for wider Gender Ideology bollox.
Can you imagine the types of ‘adults’ these groups would have connected certain kids with.
Pure evil.
A lot of people, including myself, have been hypothesising about her motivation over the years with her choice of political priorities is to position herself to a highly paid career after she leaves politics.
With her vehemence not to compromise on GRR resulting in an inevitable collision with the UK government that makes no political sense to further independence and now this proposed unworkable legislation, it seems that this notion of her going onto some well paid cushy UN job is wrong and as PhilM says, she is desperately clinging to power and at the mercy of the lord of the flies woke fanatic brigade.
It’s obvious that she when she was initially sold this intersectionalist nonsense, she thought it would be a perfect way for her to maintain power but she isn’t as smart as she thinks she is and now she is paying the price of her stupidity.
Quite frankly when all this comes home to roost, she is going to become unemployable and who knows, maybe facing future criminal charges from the victims of this legislation.
There are no words.
Breeks @8:48pm
There’s no battle brewing with Westminster. Too many headlines with “might” and “could” say that Westminster is either going to let Holyrood stew in it’s own juices or perhaps more likely wait a while to see what effect the legislation has and then make appropriate adjustments and introduce bills along similar lines, particularly if there is an incoming Labour government. (The Tories are not immune to this nonsense).
What’s more of interest is the disconnect between government and reality. That they can put together a such a list of advisors and consider the the report for legislation is remarkable. I’m sure they think they are doing the right thing but the from an outsider’s perspective the whole process appears seriously unhinged. If this happens for hot-button topics you can be sure it is happening for others, such as energy policy. The ongoing debacle over ferries says it all.
The layer of shit in the stables is already enormous and growing rapidly. Impeachment, though desirable, is likely unobtainable without a massive fight, if indeed it is possible at all. Accountability is already out of the window.
Is there enough popcorn available for what’s coming next? Named Person 2.0 is probably the least our of upcoming worries.
The hour is far later than many commenting here realise and your ignorance and inaction is part of the reason we are where we are.
With the carrot of what flag you stand under and how much disposable income you have to spend on tat; your rights and freedoms have been thrown away by a party and their acolytes who will now call you all the names under the sun for challenging their ideology.
Such a law would mean the end of psychotherapy and psychological counselling. It would also mean the end of modern medical practise.
akenaton 9.51 p.m.: “Family is important in nation building and we would do well to remember that.”
One reason that this sick madness which attacks the family is being prepared for us, no doubt, since She Who Must Be Obeyed isn’t remotely interested in independence. Another is that it benefits the gross perverts, of course.
Thank you, Stu Campbell, for highlighting this hideous stuff. Significant that no MSM journalist is touching it.
And yes, Cath is right: this Trojan horse will finish many people with the idea of independence. And our sock puppet MSPs and MPs will probably all go along with it.
So Thought Crime a crime right enough… made me think of this old classic:
Bertie Auld to legendary official Tom ‘Tiny’ Wharton: “If I call you an arsehole Mr Wharton will I get booked?
Wharton: “Yes, Mr Auld. You’d be in trouble.”
Bertie: “What if I just thought you were an arsehole, what would happen?”
Wharton: “If you just thought it, nothing would happen.”
Bertie: “Well, Mr Wharton, I think you’re an arsehole.”
At a time when the NHSMH budget has been frozen with a long waiting list of patients, you have to wonder why the Gov recently gave £5m to medical gender reassessment…now we know! It’s cheaper!
Good versus Evil is real and humans have known it forever.
God and the Devil are our personifications of it.
You don’t need a priest, a church or a book to teach it to you. Good lives inside of us all, it is our choice.
Someone in the SNPG instructed Police Scotland to adopt the phrase Minor Attracted Person. Do we know who that is?
To describe paedophiles as just a different sexual orientation is ‘interesting’ to say the least. Because this ‘ideology’ is clearly the thinking behind this ‘MAP’ instruction to Police Scotland.
The guy Rennie who was the head of LGBTetc Youth Scotland at the time who attempted to rape his best friends 18 month old baby first chance he got… is he just of a ‘different’ sexual orientation? no better or worse than any other? is he?
Do you ever wonder why it was only attempted rape… I am guessing because it was not physically possible to rape an 18 month old baby… but I am sure he gave it a good go. And people doubt the existence of Evil.
So who in the SNPG instructed Police Scotland to call people like Rennie a ‘minor attracted person’.
The goal is clearly to normalize paedophilia.
You get so called normal people like Harriet Harmon standing on a stage advocating for paedophiles by getting them to ‘agree’ to layers and layers of degeneracy leading up to it. So they no longer even see the absolute perverted monsters they have become.
They inch you towards it, grooming you into believing it is normal behaviour, acceptable, not evil, just like they do the kids they abuse…
And it is all so planned out and premeditated. The simultaneous creation of the Orwellian named ‘Hate’ Bill tells you that they knew this would be deeply repellant to many people, it is there to be that boot stamping on your face should you resist it.
They know exactly what they are doing. It is said the road to hell is paved with good intentions. In this case it is worse as the intentions were never sincerely good. This is just the road to hell paved with evil intentions.
Cath nailed it above as to why they are doing this. They are salting the fields of the independence movement, poisoning the wells.
Given the extremeness of everything that has been done especially to Salmond I think we do have to seriously consider the possibility that we actually won in 2014. Something spooked them so bad that they lost their minds and unleashed the dogs of war on us.
” Quite frankly when all this comes home to roost, she is going to become unemployable and who knows, maybe facing future criminal charges from the victims of this legislation. ”
I’m not so sure about that , PacMan . If you see the global nature of this * Gender * psychosis ; it’s infiltration into Governments ( * Scotland * trying to outdo even Tranada in it’s zeal to enforce/inflict this shit on the population ) , Institutions , Army , Police , NHS , Academia , then Sturgeon’s promotion of it may well be her ticket into the higher echelons of the * forces * behind it .
It could backfire , blow-up in her and the flock’s faces – there are already signs of that , but , on the other hand , * it * is still being backed and * normalised * by most Politicians , Broadcasters and – of course – those that seek to exploit the commercial potential of increasing the requirement for lifelong medication/treatment .
No need to overcomplicate things.
Its an SNP pet project/obsession that they can pursue successfully while people continue to vote them into power on the back of some carrot-based independence promises.
Easily reversible as the SNP would disappear in an independent Scotland
Another reason for their reluctance to pursue actual independence
Still hard to take though
The current SNP seeing devolution as an opportunity to turn Scotland into a bizarre gender-lensed social experiment
And our only short-term saviour likely to be a reluctant Westminster
Who thought we would ever need independence to save us from the SNP?
A theme seems to be developing that this stuff is driven from London. It may involve Unionists, but England is as horrified and resistant to this stuff as we are. Queer Theory’s application – which Stonewall and all the ‘trans’ arms advocate – can end in only one thing: child sexual abuse and the abuse of females and the vulnerable (mentally and physically disabled). There can be no other end. It does what it says on the tin, and this particular post modern philosophical theory is a deviant’s charter.
I would ask people to calm down and look at America, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Iceland, Ireland, et al, where self-ID has been introduced already. They are all much further along this path than we are, and Westminster can hardly be held responsible for all of them. Scotland was chosen, the SNP was chosen. The furtherance of this insanity is being promoted and backed financially by billionaires, mainly American, and by the American political Democrats (Biden).
It filters down to the next level, the activist level, where the proponents are not necessarily ‘trans’, although many are gay, while others are straight. This is the level where Stonewall squats malignantly. This is the level at which the psychopaths congregate and push this stuff – not necessarily for personal gain in the form of access to vulnerable people on a sexual basis, but for reasons of pure, unadulterated wickedness because they enjoy causing mayhem and harm to others. This level is also where the more influential abusers exist.
At the bottom level are the ‘trans’ identified men and women, the ‘trans children. The vast majority of the first, the so-called ‘trans’ women, are sexually-driven men. The two other categories are intended to shore up the myth that someone can be born in the wrong body or have an opposite sex brain and/or soul. It is all bilge – all of it – but it requires legislation such as the Hate Crime law to ensure that no one interferes with its ‘progress’. Believe me, laws will be promulgated and others pulled down that either push this stuff or hinder it, in the second case. The GRR and the Hate Crime legislation are just the first steps on the road to ‘trans’ hell for the rest of us.
This stuff is so pernicious and so dangerous to our entire civilisation that it can barely be expressed or comprehended. Please, folks, do not get hung up on some Westminster conspiracy theory. It is not that. It is far, far worse, and, if we allow this legislation to remain unchallenged, England, too, will fall to it, and there will be nowhere to go for redress. I do not profess to know why our political representatives should vote through this stuff except to suggest that most have not a clue what it is about. They, like so many others, believe we are dealing with ‘puir wee sowels’ who believe they are the opposite sex, and we should just be kind. Nah, many of those who voted for this are themselves part of the problem.
The SNP and the Greens are lost in Scotland. There will be, can be, no independence as long as these deviants remain in power, so deeply entrenched are Stonewall and its ‘trans’ tentacles. Please, folks, this is a Scottish menace, not one propagated in Westminster, and it is intended to spread out from Scotland into the rest of the UK. We will lose all if we persist in believing it is Westminster-driven. I have been saying for the past few years that we needed to crush this vile ‘trans’ lobby before we could even contemplate independence, but I have been ignored. These are the people who are squatting in Holyrood – from all parties, except, maybe, the Tories, although they are not wholly clean either – and squatting in every arm of public service in Scotland. The really sad and unforgivable thing is, that it was all predictable when Stonewall and its Scottish arms started to infest, like a plague of parasites, every public sphere and deliberately preventing independence. The SNP was just the vehicle, Scotland just the launch pad.
George Ferguson: most of these people -and that includes many of our elected representatives – have not a scoobie as to what it really means and what it really entails. In the end, it is not even about ‘trans’ or boy/gender dysphoria. It is about sex (the deviant varieties) and money, as all nasties boil down to at the end of the day.
Thanks Stu for this.
I’ve just read the link for House of Rainbow and literally have no words. You couldn’t make this up.
How far removed from reality has this become?
Does the SNP pay these folk to sit around and agree? Are they in any way given funding from the Scottish Government?
Does anyone know if the Grampian Gender ID clinic is being investigated also as per Tavistock? Info I could find re concerns is behind The Times paywall.
So many questions and concerns.
I note the query in the comments re Joanna Cherry and why she remains in the SNP. I also wonder why those with principles and who appear free-thinking remain in this toxic party.
Why do they remain? What are they thinking? Is it a job and they need the money as we all do at the present?
Is it easy money and easier to shut up and suck the party line up? Or perhaps it is easier to promote change and have your voice heard if you remain within such environments rather than be outwith. I wonder if they fear being tarnished by all this if they remain in the party or do they fear for their career if they dare speak out and defy their leader?
Why don’t they move over to Alba – it’s like old-style SNP without the crazies.
More questions than answers.
So brainwashing and converting a normal child into a mutilated mess or a chemically castrated shell before their life really starts is the part that will be legal, sanctified and enshrined in law…
…but anyone, in any capacity including your parents, saying anything at all, to dissuade the child from doing it will be arrested and sent to jail.
Hmmm seems legit.
And the SNPG stacked the laughably called ‘expert’ committee jury to get this exact outcome.
Just like they want to railroad people into prison without the need for juries so they wish to railroad your kids into a living hell and if you say anything to stop it you will be committing a hate crime.
Some years ago if any Politician was found to be up to any ‘wrongdoing’ it was a matter of principle that they would resign. Public opinion would demand it.
Nowadays, hardly a day passes without an example of a Politician being up to ‘no good’, whether it be incompetence, corruption, cronyism or whatever. There is often an initial backlash against the individual, which quickly passes, as the next scandal is revealed. The general public and the media now have the attention span of a goldfish and the Politicians know this and can simply ride it out for a week or so.
It happens the world over. The ordinary man/woman/it simply does not count any more until……………….election time approaches.
Be wary of voting SNP ever again. Also voting for Independence, if it ever happens, is fraught with so many uncertainties especially if the Cult will be in charge.
Of course, ‘It will all be fine-trust us’ still resonates with many in Scotland.
So “conversion” should be criminalised because it caused someone PTSD? Childbirth caused me PTSD, should that be criminalised too?
On bright side, if the hypothetical wee rent boy is identifying as one, the parent will presumably be well within their rights to welcome them to the real world and demand some (even going as far as to exploit the situation further by paying the taxi to Holyrood, along with a camera crew, in anticipation of being able to optimise ROI on the hypocrisy evident in the McKay shenanigans)*
*since any such premeditated entrapment by a sovereign citizen (as opposed to agents of a foreign parliament’s crown) might be considered borderline illegal these days, and since people like Prof Leitch remain out of jail, let alone still in employment (following what increasingly appears to be blatant corruption at heart of respective covid inquiries), it might be nonetheless worthwhile to run some well targeted enabling works from basements of St Giles first and foremost.
@Lorna Campbell 9:58pm
Morning Lorna. That doesn’t chime with me Susan Brown is one of the most able, intelligent ministers in the Church of Scotland. I expect a public statement from the Church of Scotland saying the findings were by majority agreement and that Susan Brown dissented. Isn’t that the SNP way. Stack the committee and ignore dissent.
Why would gay men like John Nicholson & Patrick Harvie be so keen to see so many men become ‘women’. Are they into ‘sissyporn’
Who do transwomen date? Some say they are lesbians but lesbains aren’t interested. What about the others are they heterosexual? I doubt of a heterosexual man would be interested so all that would be left would be gay men.
The question is why would a gay man be interested in a trans woman? Would it be because they are sadistic misogynists?
Just been over to WGD to cheer myself up.
Business as usual over there – starting the year as he means to go on – it’s a well-used template, but then why change a winning formula when it pays the bills:
“2023 could be an election year”
Impossible to argue with that, once you understand the weasel power of that little word “could”.
Is transitioning gay men/women not the ultimate form of conversion therapy?
OK Chas you are going to have to ‘show us the money’ if we decide to take your advice and not vote for Independence also why remaining in the UK would would be any different with regard to gender ideology.
Did you sign this?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/628382
I got a permanent Twitter ban for this statement. “Trans women are men with mental issues”. Fuck Twitter, and fuck this SNP government.
As I said on a previous thread, I think they’re trying to get rid of the concepts of male and female because it’ll be cheaper just to have toilets and prisons etc., rather than male & female versions.
Soon, we’ll all have the same hair style and wear the same clothes…
How many of the people involved with this ridiculousness have children of their own? It might be interesting to know.
” Please, folks, do not get hung up on some Westminster conspiracy theory. ”
I , for one , am not suggesting the Sturgeon SNP are somehow the victims of any WM * Conspiracy * , Lorna . No , they are totally responsible for what they’re inflicting on our country and – if sanity ever returns – will be held accountable for their actions .
I just don’t think they are acting solely on their own * initiative * . There are deeper , darker forces at play here . Clowns like Sturgeon are * merely * the ( willing ) enablers of this society-destroying lunacy
Given the nature of the relationships and connections of so many SNP/Green elected reps I am amazed that so few scandals have reached the public domaim. There must be some absolute beezers out there we don’t yet know about. They are corrupt and perverted, we MUST get this govt out of office as soon as possible.
What C.S.Lewis had to say on this sort of thing.
«Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busibodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some time be satisfied; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own consciences».
Gordon Bain, see this from Ireland.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/up-to-90pc-of-people-using-gender-service-may-be-autistic-audit-finds-42034649.html
One thing that is undeniable is that Sturgeon’s SNP are no longer fit for purpose and are downright dangerous on many levels, including to our core civil liberties.
Dealing not in possibilities but plausibilities, what can be realistically done that will actually work and achieve the goal of removing her from office and the independence movement.
The only plausible route (IMHO) is to use ALBA to wipe out the SNP in large numbers, without wiping out the independence movement, or even losing MSPs to unionist parties.
Just by switching in sufficient numbers we can ‘deselect’ a lot of the Sturgeon nutters ourselves.
It really doesn’t not matter how good ALBA are. In one election cycle Sturgeon and her cronies could be wrecked and then there is at least a chance the SNP could be rehabilitated… and if not ALBA can be used as the vehicle until it can.
It took ‘them’ a long time to get Sturgeon into place, where she could do the damage she has done, they waited a long time for the opportunity. But we can wipe that all out and ‘reset the SNP’ just by switching to ALBA in sufficient numbers to bring down the House of Sturgeon.
Nothing can be achieved with Sturgeon in charge. But even with her out of office and following in Tony Blair’s footsteps to collect her deferred wages the damage she will leave behind is immense.
Culling most of the current Sturgeon MSPs and replacing them with ALBA MSPs even if it is just for one election cycle provides the quickest way to clean out the SNP and select new future MSPs.
Everything else is just blah blah but this offers a real path to do it without setting the independence movement back for years or possibly decades.
Given the tendency for the pigs to morph into men we should perhaps be burning the house down like this on a regular basis. The house or more accurately the vehicle is not important but the integrity of the person driving it however very much is.
This is partly why you always need a second strong independence party, as one can be used to reset the other at the first whiff of betrayal. And we all know we are well past the whiff stage with the SNP. It is like a putrid cadaver rotting from the head down.
So use ALBA to clean the SNP out out and bring down Sturgeon. Then you can save the SNP and have both it and ALBA working together. This is very doable.
The law operates on the basis of precedent.
Any exercise of a sufficiently sizable number of people – using this present trajectory of self-id with its official support of the entire swathe of social, economic and political institutions as the precedent – seeking to become instant millionaires by submitting back pension claims on the basis they self identify as 120 years of age (or older if you want to be a billionaire) would be interesting.
You could get to charge and potentially imprison those who refuse to hand over the money on the basis of committing a ‘Hate Crime” on this precedent.
“They don’t like it up ’em Mr Mainwaring.”
This articl states more than 30% , i suppose 90% is more than 30%
So what is driving kids with asc to think they are transgender?
https://gcn.ie/national-gender-service-crisis-ireland-fails-who-obligation/
I was curious about what ‘conversion practices’ actually entails.
Happily a definition is provided on p17 of the ‘independent’ report. It is:
‘Conversion practices’: refers to any treatment, practice
or effort that aims to change, suppress and/or eliminate a
person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and/or gender
expression. A person cannot consent to conversion
practices being carried out against them.’
By this definition someone converting from male to transwoman would be covered, thereby rendering ALL conversions illegal. That’s some own goal. Should we consult VAR?
Did this happen recently Gordon? I thought Twitter was getting sorted out.
Maybe instead of mental issues you should have used the term fetishes.
Transwomen are ‘Fetishistic men on a sexualised ego trip living out their sexual fantasies in public’
Is having a fetish a mental illness? I did a little search on Google and found this:
Are sexual deviances considered a mental illness?
Yes. Pedophilia, Fetishism, Sexual Sadism, Vouyerism, Froteurism (desire to rub one’s genitals against a stranger). Exhibitionism, etc, are all considered mental illness.
You learn something new everyday. Froteurism (desire to rub one’s genitals against a stranger) Never knew that term but I have experienced froteurism. Froteurism can easily happen at weddings etc where men and women do old fashioned style dancing.
There’s also upper thigh froteurism. That’s when men on the bus ‘man spread’ and ensure your thighs are touching his.
In Spain they have a ‘man spreading’ ban
https://archive.is/HWrUb
The thing with ‘froteurism’ is that it’s very difficult to prove.
Could be a gun or even a mobile phone that he has in his pocket.
Upper thigh ‘froteurism’ could be just an accident or a pedophile getting his rocks off feeling close to a child.
Indecent exposure & voyeurism is also going to be difficult to prove if carried out by a ‘woman’ in a woman’s changing room. Trans rights are human rights.
For it to happen the full truth of the Salmond stitch-up needs to be exposed.
Similar to what was done by Al Jazeera and the Labour Files the entire truth of it needs to be laid out and EVERYONE involved in the Salmond stitch-up should be named .
It needs to be exposed in a way that cannot be shut down by the Scottish courts, reversed or covered up, an irreversible, undeniable, full disclosure of the entire set of facts. It needs to be done concisely and forensically and go from the very start with them concocting an in-house process to shaft Salmond, through to the judicial review, through to the court case and the Fabiani Farce etc.
It clearly serves the public interest infinitely more for the truth to come out than for it to be concealed, especially when those who conspired deliberately used these secrecy laws intended to protect genuine victims to cynically conceal their activities.
The whole lot needs to come out. It would be a truly revolutionary act if it did. Then ALBA might have a real chance of getting traction.
I am not sure if an Al Jazeera or a Russia Today would do it but someone should as it is a huge scandal and huge story that makes what was done to Corbyn look mild in comparison.
Ruby
It might have escaped your notice but MONEY is actually quite important. It lets you do things. People, businesses, Governments, all seem to need it. If you do not believe this, just ask one of the individuals who are currently on strike looking for more of it or listen to a Government spokesman explaining why there has to be cutbacks or taxes raised.
I think that you may find that our brave Scottish Government have a different view on ‘gender ideology’ than others. Maybe that is why there is a bit of a stooshie going on just now!
A word of caution to you. I NEVER open any link on any website or an Email where I am not 100% certain of the source. It is far too easy to slightly alter a name, punctuation, or a number on what appears to be something from a legitimate concern. Imagine if you saw a link, very similar to the one you quote, with one of the ‘full stops’ missed out or a number altered. You could literally be opening any malware, with who knows what is embedded in the message.
Happy to be of assistance.
Would you really vote for Independence on the basis of ‘Trust me-all will be ok’ on those awkward issues the Politicians cannot give an answer to? If the answer is Yes then wow, just wow.
A lot of us wingers said she would burn the house down before she left.
I didn’t imagine it would be this bad.
The Nazis used weak people, sexual deviants to do their bidding, this is where its at.
Why did Alex S say vote SNP 1, Alba 2 in 2021?
Surely after what she did to him, he must have realised how evil she is.
I haven’t voted SNP in the last 3 elections and won’t again until Sturgeon and her band of deviants are removed.
Our press are useless, the opposition is useless.
IMO Lab thought they’d vote for GRR to bring Sturgeon down but they’ve shot themselves in the foot.
If genderism versus what Orwell called ‘common decency’ is a case of irresistible force versus immovable object, which is which?
Once we are all trans or queer or something else the population problem is solved
Well said Lorna Campbell. It’s almost a kneejerk reaction to blame Westminster but the guilt for these Bills lies squarely in the SNPs and Greens laps. It seems to be a Western illness and driven by the elites in the West.
The Reverend Bingo Allison admits to being autistic.
The performance by this man in his ridiculous mini-dress and tights manspreading in the style of Sharon Stone in the film ‘Basic Instinct’ makes me very angry.
I see it as him totally taking the piss out of women and being encouraged to do so by his superiors and his audience.
I totally understand why ‘black face’ is unacceptable. Time for ‘woman face’ to also be totally unacceptable.
Maybe the SNP/Greens should make ‘woman face’ a hate crime.
What is identity?
That’s the heart of the matter; crack that, and you’ll save the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgfH39xD0Ig
Here’s the link to The Reverend Bingo Allison
Does this mean however that gender identity clinics could be reported by the public as sexual orientation conversion practices?
Link to The Reverend Bingo Allison’s talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgfH39xD0Ig
Interesting, over and above whatever naughty thought must have triggered pre moderation earlier, that a not dissimilar type of association to that which prevented the chance of a Scottish pope not so long ago is now being used replete with rev & very rev titles.
Any chance that that could be a sign of the Claim of Right route to indy being taken far more seriously in certain quarters of contemporary heaven* than its administrators might care to admit – hence the apparent desire to tar church(es) of Scotland by association to its arguably less alluring underbelly?
*eg interesting prologue to interesting choice of favourite book by Warren Buffet senior partner in Berkshire Hathaway, Charlie Munger:
https://books.feedvu.com/nonscrolablepdf/how-the-scots-invented-the-modern-world-pdf-1.html?page=6
Maybe the people really behind it (whoever they are) also see it as a way to reduce global (or at least ‘Western’) population numbers, and what we’re experiencing is some kind of cull?
If there is a problem with too many people in the world and not enough resources, one solution (given that resources are finite) is to reduce the number of people. And one way to achieve that would be to introduce a mass sterilisation program for children. It wouldn’t have to be every child, just an annual (and possibly growing) percentage which could, maybe even within a generation, result in a significant reduction in the birth rate due to infertility. That, coupled with older people dying off naturally, could result in a significant drop in population numbers.
Slightly at a tangent, but maybe it needs to be said, sometimes there are good reasons why “marginalised groups” are indeed marginalised. Fetishism and paedophiles are a case in point.
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Gregory Beekman says:
5 January, 2023 at 11:07 am
As I said on a previous thread, I think they’re trying to get rid of the concepts of male and female because it’ll be cheaper just to have toilets and prisons etc., rather than male & female versions.
Soon, we’ll all have the same hair style and wear the same clothes…
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Gregory, they are indeed trying to get rid of the concepts of male & female, but do you think this is about saving money on toilets & prisons? You are looking at this entirely the wrong way round. I think there are multiple reasons for this carnage (God v Satan / good v evil / destruction of civilisation – take your pick) but let’s look at just one benefit to the “medical profession” taken from an American website: (shortened URL – https://tinyurl.com/costofbeingtrans)
Gender Reassignment Surgery: $30,000-Plus
Hormone Therapy: $1,500/Year
Facial Feminization Surgery: $25,000-$60,000
Breast Augmentation: $5,000-$10,000
and this is only the tip of the iceberg. We all love that medical treatment is free in the UK, or so we are led to believe. It’s not free, it costs, we just pay for it a different way. Great business isn’t it? Especially if we confuse children from an early age that they might be in the wrong body and make laws that prevent parents from questioning their children otherwise could be accused of breaking the law.
This is exactly what is happening under the guise of “equality”, make no mistake about it.
We are witnessing the destruction of everything good in western civilisation and the main target is the family unit. I’m not suggesting the SNP are at the forefront of all this, they are merely pawns in a global game here, but they have played their part in trying to destroy the family unit in Scotland with their attempt at the Named Person Scheme where they wanted the state to assume the role of parent.
I would love to think this was merely about toilets & prisons.
“By this definition someone converting from male to transwoman would be covered, thereby rendering ALL conversions illegal.”
They thought of that. The report makes an exception for “affirmative” practices, ie you can tell your kid they ARE trans, but you can’t tell them they’re NOT.
Hugh Oxford @ 8:23 am
“I used to call Holyrood a pathocracy: government by the sick. I now call it a malocracy: government by the evil. Holyrood was captured a long time ago. As a parliament of a small country under PR it was always going to be vulnerable to capture by malign globalist forces.”
The problem also arguably relates to the nature of the colonial condition which gives rise to a peoples psychological craving for dependence (‘dependency complex’) as well as other deficiencies.
As Albert Memmi said: “Colonized society is a diseased society”.
And Aime Cesaire: “a civilization which justifies colonization – and therefore force – is already a sick civilization, a civilization which is morally diseased”
There is no depths to which a ‘shameless’ colonial governing hierarchy will not stoop, aided by a corrupt national party that becomes ‘an instrument of coercion’.
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Liz says:
5 January, 2023 at 12:03 pm
A lot of us wingers said she would burn the house down before she left.
I didn’t imagine it would be this bad.
The Nazis used weak people, sexual deviants to do their bidding, this is where its at.
I haven’t voted SNP in the last 3 elections and won’t again until Sturgeon and her band of deviants are removed
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Liz, a lot of people are taking all their anger out on Nicola Sturgeon and I understand why to a certain extent. (I too voted for SNP at one time but never again.)
However, this gender lunacy isn’t something confined to the SNP or Scotland. Take a look at other countries in the EU or worse, America. This is a global issue (although it doesn’t seem to affect Islamic countries at the moment).
The SNP are playing their part and I suppose we can only hold our own Government to account and no-one else. But I just want to point out the SNP are players in this, not leaders. They’re not pushing this, they’re doing what they’re told.
The other point is this – if we get rid of the SNP, will anyone else in Scotland do any better? At the recent GRR bill, Labour, Lib-Dem & Greens (God help us) were just as bad if not worse than the SNP.
The only major party that stood up for women at the GRR bill were Tories and that is worrying, but worrying or not, it’s something we all have to accept and deal with.
Hi, George Ferguson: it seems that some of the most intelligent people are captured by this – often from a sense of trying to be kind and understanding. It is when you continue to try and be kind in the teeth of the truth about this movement that the problems arise because you are saying: this group to the detriment of all others. Sane people are at ‘war’ – in the sense of refusing to kow tow – with this ideology now. When you are at war, hopefully, you do not lose your sense of right and wrong, but you cannot afford to be kind to your enemy when you know full well that your enemy will take advantage – not if you want and need to win. These people are truly malignant, many of them, or porn-sick. They are a massive danger. Should women and children be sacrificed? I can understand why such a person as Susan would react like that, but silence, or overlooking all the evidence makes you complicit and part of the problem. One must also question the intelligence of someone who believes that biology is mutable when there is not a shred of evidence to suggest it is – how can there be, when the existence and continuation of our species rests full-square on biology being immutable? That there is a tiny, minuscule minority with body/gender dysphoria is a given, but well over 90% are not part of this group, but paraphiliacs/fetishists. Some people can be both intelligent and very stupid at one and the same time.
Hi, Robert Hughes: totally agree.
@Lorna Campbell 1:24pm
I don’t know if Susan was silent on the committee. I have zero trust in the SNP/ Greens Government version of events and their minutes/records or lack of them. There is only one way to find out and that is to ask her. I know her from my days in Ross-Shire.
I knew this was bad, but bloody hell Rev, you have opened the gates of hell on this stupidity, this is the reason they try to destroy you too. I often wonder how these so called journalists who have kids of their own can sit back ignoring a factual report such as you have uncovered. How can ANY of those nasties sitting in HR who have voted for this GRA bill, never think about the damage to their own children and grandchildren or even to their brothers & sisters or mothers and fathers who just MIGHT make a comment that STURGEON & Co. can have them up in court for. Sturgeon is in my mind a different version of HITLER reincarnated, NOT Maggie Thatcher, even she would never have gone this far.. What next GAS chambers for parents that want to save their kids lives..
I believe there is supposed to be a demonstration at BUTE HOUSE on the 25th of January, Unless you are a peado or predator I suggest ALL of Scotland should get to that demonstration, bring HER down & that nasty party hers. And then rid this country of every UNIONST & GREEN that voted for this stupidity. If Iceland could jail the bankers, politicians & even some judges for the mess their country landed in due to the 2008 bank fiasco.
Surely every parent & grandparent can come together to save our children form these weirdos.
From Page 17 of the report covering definitions:
“‘Gender expression’ and ‘expression of sexual orientation’: refers to each person’s manifestations of their gender identity and/or sexual orientation, and/or the one that is perceived by others.
Firstly, apart from, once again, implicitly conflating sex and gender as the same thing, what jumps out here with this definition is the explicit definition of the term “sexual orientation.”:
“Sexual orientation’: refers to a person’s emotional, affectional and sexual attraction to persons of a different gender, the same gender or more than one gender and includes the lack of such attraction or relations
Presumably, and in the absence of any explicit wording to the contrary, ALL individually generated manifestations of “sexual orientation” are covered under this definition. Including not only same sex attraction but also what is euphemistically termed “Minor Attracted Person” (MAP) as the definition of “Sexual Orientation” given here does not specify explicitly the age of any person subject to the “gender” (not sex, note) attraction.
As a consequence, the only logical conclusion which fits the wording in these definitions is that any expression of view, argument, or sanction (official or unofficial), however manifested, against the “sexual orientation” of Pedophilia will become a criminal offence under these recommendations?
Secondly, and so far, I have been unable to find anything in the document which explicitly excludes from its definitions of “conversion practice” or criminal offence the practice of forcing biological females whose “sexual orientation” is towards other biological females – ie lesbians – to agree to sexual relations with intact biological males, however they identify?
Clearly, even here in this document, there exists a clash between the rights of one manifestation of “sexual orientation” and “gender identity” and another.
The rights of both are not and cannot be protected under these proposals and their definitions. Either biological females who are lesbian/same sex attracted are protected from the “conversion practices” of intact biological males” – who would be guilty of a criminal offence against BOTH the (separate) “sexual orientation” AND “gender identity” of biological female lesbians – if those intact biological males attempted to undermine the “sexual orientation” of biological female lesbians, or they are not protected and the biological males are protected in advancing their “conversion practice.”
Those who constructed this report cannot have it both ways on this point.
They need to be publicly challenged and made to answer explicitly as to which rights take precedence on these two matters.
Open rebellion against both Westminster and Holyrood is looking more attractive every day.
John Main @ 10:53am,
Are Kavanagh and his sheep still insisting that Boris Johnson will have no alternative but to grant a Section 30?
It’s people like Kavanagh that ensure the gullible are fed a constant stream of pish, no doubt Boris Johnson would have been bent to the Will of Nicola given enough time, yada yada.
I was conversing with him at the time and everyone of them were genuinely convinced that Boris would have to cave in.
The gullibility needle on that site has been stuck at delusional for some years and I don’t expect any change any time soon, not even after the shelf life of a series of deadlines come and go, yet again.
Unfortunately for the independence movement, they’ll simply and eagerly believe the shit that he’s shovelling without an ounce of cynicism.
We’re being held back by people who have an emotional attachment to politicians and their sycophants, no amount of logic is going to change that.
With no sense of reason or honest analysis, broken promises can be forgotten as they look forward to the next set.
Akenaton; “For years now it has been impossible to discuss the negative aspects of homosexuality, like extreme promiscuity, STD rates, and “open” marriages and relationships.”
What have any of these things to do with gender reassignment?
A leopard doesn’t change it’s spots and nor it seems do you.
The homophobic bigots are latching on to this subject and using it as cover. Sad.
Truly terrifying but of a piece with an ideology that is already very widespread in schools, institutions (such as the NHS and youth groups) concerned with teenagers and among teenagers themselves – as in “anything I say I feel is correct, must be respected and cannot be challenged”. Of course teenagers love this, particularly if they are already on the autistic spectrum.
I don’t understand why sane educated adults are going down this rabbit-hole. I’m assuming most of them are childless and have never had responsibility for raising a child.
A lot of teachers who are forced to kow-tow to trans ideology must feel sick – and struggle to remember the ever-changing names.
All my daughter’s friend are trans boys with official male names used by their school. She turns 16 next year and I am horrified by the prospect that she could force through a legal sex-change (if the GRA stands) despite being ASD and having learning difficulties.
@ Breastplate 2.41pm I am currently involved in a discussion?? with Peter Bell over the same thing, DELUSION, Peter maintains that he was ultimately convinced of sturgeons fake independence calls in 2021 which resulted in him resigning from the snp, YET on EVERY post of his he INSISTS that we MUST all vote for the Scum Nonce Party if we want independence, IRRESPECTIVE of the destruction to the YES movement and SCOTLAND overall
From 2014 until 2021 7 years for Peter the thinker to realise sturgeon is a FAKE, as you say WE real Scottish independence supporters rather than PARTY or politician supporters are being strangled by unthinking sycophants and apologists
@ Mac 11.48: “For it to happen the full truth of the Salmond stitch-up needs to be exposed.”
Looks like we need a Spycatcher Situation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycatcher
moixx @ 12.50: the globalists have been pushing the eugenical “People are cancer” idea for a long while (it lies e.g. behind the extreme climate catstrophist position à la Greta), just as long as any culling doesn’t happen to them.
Mind you, whether they are fully human is questionable.
@Lorna Campbell 1:24
Great post.
As somebody once said, any individual can choose to deny reality as much as they wish, but ultimately, reality won’t be denied.
@Moixx 12:50
I believe there is a thinking strand to the Green lobby that does see the trans lunacy as a useful way of getting the population down.
Simple biological arithmetic confirms that Trans + Cis = 0 (offspring), for many of the available permutations.
Sure is a hell of a perverse way of going about things, but never forget Lenin’s useful idiots. They pop up in many different contexts.
I agree with those suggesting the US is the main player in this. Just look at how they have meddled in countries that don’t have their nukes on their soil. It is a strategic advantage for the Tories too however. They can sow chaos and get the credit for stopping it.
You have laid it out for all to see rev but the general public will be totally unaware of the detail of this terrifying agenda sturgeon is pursuing as the MSM seem to have closed their eyes to this insanity. Odd, or is it.
It is disgusting that so many MSPs back this madness.
It’s becoming plainly obvious that most populations – Scotland’s in this case – will not push back against just anything. I can’t think of a more vile behavior being conducted AND government funded short of abortion than this; it deserves a response by strong, virile men that does not cease until everyone involved is gone. Otherwise, you will let them do anything, won’t you?
This seems a bit contradictory to me from the last screengrab ” A wide range of options to enforce change should be available and could include targeted education, written notice from the perpetrator agreeing to cease the practice, a compulsory notice from the authority or a voluntary written agreement agreed by all parties involved.”
So in essence, you cannot do anything to try to talk or discuss the issues at hand but if you do, the authorities’ will come down upon you with all the might of the law to make you change your views! Who is actually banning conversion therapy here? Why do I have visions of myself being strapped to a chair and given the full “Clockwork Orange” treatment……
Twathater,
I have a lot of time for Peter Bell because he talks a lot of sense with most things, he’s quite willing to show his workings on how he arrives at various opinions, I like that about anyone.
Unfortunately, as you’ve noticed he seems to have an obvious discontinue in his thought process regarding the SNP.
He believes that it’s better being inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in, which may seem reasonable to many people.
The trouble with that thinking is you have to disregard the cesspit that the New SNP have been digging inside the tent for 8 years.
You are correct, he’s dead wrong on his conclusion of voting for the SNP.
I do think cath is trying to hard to blame unionists and mi5 for all of STURGEONS wrong doings are you a sturgeon spad cath we need to know?
Wow! Scotland is ruined by these hateful evil people. I’m amazed that there is so little self-esteem left. If there were, the streets would be full of protesters. There are ONLY 2 sexes. The rest is mental illness.
As a died-in-the-wool Scot with >95% Scottish genes who grew up in South Esk which is a Scottish settlement in New Brunswick, I am shocked and dismayed of how low my Scotiish ancestral home, Scotland, has sunk into the slime and fetid scum of post-modern corrupt and degenerate culture. This degenerate culture has sadly infiltrated and subverted the entire western world to the point where Christian Western Civilization and Scottish traditions are on the ropes and may go down for the final count and disappear for ever from the annals of advanced civilization. We must all ask…how did it happen knowing that it has happened many times before over 5000 years of recorded history. I find myself going back to brillant thinkers such as Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn who witnessed and suffered the death and destruction of Russia after the 1917 so-called Bolshevik revolution which is very relevant today because the west is in the grip of a neo-Bolshevik takeover.
“Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.” Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”
? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Scotland has become a wicked, tyrannical nation. What a hell hole, no longer room for differences of opinion or for liberty of conscience. Scotland is now fighting God and will surely meet with His rebuke.
I would slaughter these Scottish “Drs” if this happened to my kid. I would use an axe.
I continued to dip into WoS during it’s sabbatical, and enjoyed a fuller time with it over the festive break.
For perhaps the first time ever reading WoS, I am horrified at what I have read in this and the previous post. The previous post made me glad that I am not a parent of young children, but this post shows that nobody is safe any more.
If you speak to a stranger they could state that anything you have said interfered with their Gender Identity. For example, as a motorcyclist, I would no longer feel safe discussing the benefits of open or full face helmets. On open helmet could be worn to demonstrate whether or not the wearer has a beard, so far too risky. What if I offer someone a pint? They could be offended as their tipple could be seen as “too masculine” thus attacking their gender identity. Even discussing the weather will no longer be safe.
As a died-in-the-wool Scot with >95% Scottish genes who grew up in South Esk which is a Scottish settlement in New Brunswick, I am shocked and dismayed of how low my Scottish ancestral home, Scotland, has sunk into the slime and fetid scum of post-modern corrupt and degenerate culture. This degenerate culture has sadly infiltrated and subverted the entire western world to the point where Christian Western Civilization and Scottish traditions are on the ropes and may go down for the final count and disappear for ever from the annals of advanced civilization. We must all ask…how did it happen knowing that it has happened many times before over 5000 years of recorded history? I find myself going back to brilliant thinkers such as Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn who witnessed and suffered the death and destruction of Russia after the 1917 so-called Bolshevik revolution which is very relevant today because the west is in the grip of a neo-Bolshevik takeover.
“Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.” Since then I have spent well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: “Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.”
? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Having read the report, I am somewhat reassured. Regarding safeguarding of children, the report limits its definition of sexual orientation to sex/gender attraction. Ie, it does NOT include paedophilia as a sexual orientation. It advocates the use of mediation and allows for decisions not to prosecute where the victim wants to preserve their family/community ties.
As far as I can see, the measures in the report would not prevent therapists from being able to explore someone’s feelings and beliefs around their gender identity, as long as this remains within appropriate person-centred practice. The report says:
“This would include, for example, providing a safe space for someone to explore their sexual orientation, expression of sexual orientation, gender identity and/or gender expression in a safe and non-judgmental way; providing support and understanding in helping with self-acceptance; facilitating coping skills and social support or assisting someone who was undergoing or considering undergoing gender reassignment.”
This is “only” a report. The process of drafting and scrutinising any consequent legislation should strengthen any weak or ambiguous areas.
Finally, I think your assertion that the Group was “stacked” towards particular outcomes is wrong. You highlighted 5 individuals, but the Group comprises 15. Hardly stacking.
I appreciate your raising awareness of the report and encouraging people to read it – I wouldn’t have done so otherwise. But I think your analysis is unnecessarily sensationalist.
“As far as I can see, the measures in the report would not prevent therapists from being able to explore someone’s feelings and beliefs around their gender identity”
You haven’t read it properly.
In what way did I misread it? The passage I quoted specifically allows for “helping with self-acceptance”.
“In what way did I misread it? The passage I quoted specifically allows for “helping with self-acceptance”.”
Read it properly, in context. You’re only allowed to discuss it in the context of AFFIRMATION of the person’s identity, ie you can say to your child “Yes, you are trans, let’s talk about it”, but you cannot suggest to them that they aren’t.
I don’t know much about the law in Scotland or the UK, but here’s what many US states’ constitutions say about “crimes”. They say the state has the authority to DEFINE crimes, not to create them (as they do now).
A crime is readily identified as an intentional act meant to cause harm to a person or his rights (such as those to his life and property). It also extends to those actions that are so negligent as to constitute “criminal negligence”. In any event, actual harm is necessary.
The authority to “define” crimes, IMOH, should be restricted to the ability to identify a crime (e.g., murder), put a name to it (i.e., “define” it, e.g., 1st or 2nd degree murder), and to list potential punishment(s) for the commission of a crime. And, after ascertaining the facts and circumstances of the act, to attach a charge of a defined crime to the act. This is all they are authorized by their constitutions to do. They are not authorized to “invent” or “create” crimes of any sort, much less to make criminal those acts which are intrinsically innocent or do no actual harm to others. Their constitutions do not extend such authority to them, only the authority to “define” (create names and definitions) for actual intentional harmful acts.
What do your laws say about the matter?
There’s a seat in the House of Lords just waiting to be occupied by Nicola.
Do they have any pre-built detention centres to cope with all the people they will inevitably lock up in the name of this lunacy? I for one, cannot keep ma gub shut when it comes to this nonsense