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Wings Over Scotland

Light and shade

Posted on November 01, 2020 by

In today’s Sunday National:

Well, that’s good to know. Which members exactly?

Oh, right.

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    332 to “Light and shade”

    1. Muscleguy says:

      I was shocked by how big the NEC is. It seems every interest group has to have representatives. The thing look unwieldy and stackable simply by the creation of new interest groups with effective common cause.

      When you for good reasons decide to let different groups have access privileges you need to be aware that they can be subverted and be alive to entryism through them. The SNP seems to have sleepwalked into policy capture by a tiny minority. They need a Militant Tendency night of the long knives process to take the party back from these people.

      Make no mistake when those of us in the ISP start to campaign these issues will be front and centre to justify our difference from the SNP. We want the SNP to be better, want them to abandon this focus on identity politics in place of independence. In response the tiny vocal group will cause us names. We are not afraid of this we will wear those names with pride.

      Bring it on.

    2. Dave Hansell says:

      Reminds one of the computer definition of the phrase ‘out of sight, out of mind.’

      Invisible idiot.

    3. Oneliner says:


      Your use of this site as a campaigning platform for the ISP is becoming a little tedious.

    4. Effijy says:

      Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
      Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
      Transparency at their next branch meeting.

      They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
      Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….

      It just gets worse by the day!

    5. winifred mccartney says:

      Muscleguy – never a truer word spoken ‘policy captured by a tiny minority’ that is exactly what I think has happened and now its like no one will tell the king he has no clothes on.

      No one would want to see any minority or trans persons bullied or harmed in any but in protecting one group we cannot endanger another.

      If the gender ID was put to a referendum I have do doubt it would be roundly defeated.

    6. Astonished says:

      They are exactly a shady cabal. Who have no interest in independence.

      I am glad to say I think their days are numbered. They should never be forgotten or forgiven.

      Since 2014 the NEC of the SNP have not discussed independence once. That is both astonishing and telling.

      Could someone from the re-sisters or women’s pledge give some indication of the anti-woke candidates for the plum jobs at NEC etc. ? Thanks. Asking for the 96% of the SNP who oppose the genderwoowoo idiocy.

    7. Astonished says:

      Oneliner @9.45am

      There would be no need for ISP if you woke folk listened to science and reason. Sadly you don’t.

      Take your hate filled sloganizing and……..

    8. Stoker says:

      Is that 1 or 2 cowards attempted distancing? SNP NEC = Nazis!

      Some folk attempting to get the ball rolling again. Please help spread the word.

    9. Bob Mack says:

      I can almost hear them say something along the lines of
      ” I will fight to the last breath in my body to defend people’s rights(especially our own) anonymously” .

      Un named cabal indeed ha ha ha ha ha.

    10. David Caledonia says:

      Mr Campbell, some time ago you did an interview with Alex Salmond, I caught it on youtube.
      Do you know what his plans might be for his future in politics, or has he got no plans to return
      The great Sean Connery has just died and he never got his wish to see scotland independent before he went
      I am sick of it all, I intend to spend 6 months here and 6 months on my land in asia
      I am in fact thinking of moving there permanently to get way from the life here as its getting worse by the day.
      The site has become like groundhog day and that’s no good for anyone, writing about the same stuff day in and day out without anything worthwhile happening is pointless
      There are some people on here I would not be bothered with in my normal life, they think only there opinions matter, they have a small town mentality, and ego’s bigger than their intelligence.
      Anyway, my life carries on as normal, yapping and doing nothing is not my way, I have always got off my arse to better myself, us moldovians are like that, we don’t give a fecking monkeys

      Aw ra best

    11. Alf Baird says:

      If you don’t know what to do then set up a committee. And if you really don’t know what to do, set up a truly massive committee, and divide it into loads of wee sub groups tasked with lots of silly meaningless things to keep them busy.

      This is not what Scotland needs.

      Scotland needs a new National Party with just the one policy – independence – and a leadership group comprising:

      Craig Murray, Rev Stu, Alex Salmond, Kenny MacAskill, Chris McEleny, AB MacNeill, and anyone else who they consider appropriate.

      This sincere and trusted independence-committed cabal should appoint all candidates to fight the May Holyrood election solely as a plebiscite on independence, and to lead any negotiation thereafter. We don’t need ‘constituency’ MSP who want to set up their own wee constituency offices and bed in for the long term. We just need enough MSP votes to end the union and start the process to rebuild Scotland and repair its culture.

      Lets get independence done.

    12. Stoker says:

      At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’

      I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.

    13. Oneliner says:


      You make some considerable assertions.

      Where am I to be seen as woke?

      Where am I to be seen as hate-filled?

      As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.

      Your inaccurate and over emotional response to my post speaks volumes.

    14. kapelmeister says:

      It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.

    15. Stuart MacKay says:

      “We’re not come shady cabal” right next to pictures of Joana Cherry – nice, negative framing The National. Seems the “Shady Cabal” is alive and kicking in the SNP House Journal.

    16. Rick H Johnston says:

      The oversized NEC needs to be reduced. Its obviously the case that turkeys don’t usually vote for an early Christmas, so they may need a push from SNP members/delegates at the conference.
      Also Craig Murray’s election as SNP president – even though its not an executive position, would re-set the direction of the YES movement IMO.

    17. Dan says:

      There are so many folk putting themselves up for SNP NEC positions it’s difficult to know who they all are and their credentials.
      Colin Alexander posted this list in the following comment on previous thread.

      A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.

    18. Ronald Fraser says:

      We are NOT a “secret cabal” said member “A”.

      This was confirmed by fellow NEC members B, C, D, E…

      This reminds me of the recent court case against Alex Salmond, where all the accusers where identified by a letter of the alphabet.

      Secrecy seems to be the way forward for the SNP, led by the equally secretive Mr Murrell.

    19. Ottomanboi says:

      “Don’t go into something to test the waters, go into things to make waves.”

    20. Oneliner says:

      @Ronald Fraser

      Cracking irony in the statement:

      We are NOT a ‘secret cabal’ said member ”A”

      Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.

    21. kapelmeister says:

      “The reality is a lot more boring”.

      Yes, I’m sure autocracy isn’t as much fun as it’s cracked up to be.

    22. Ronald Fraser says:

      There’ll soon be more members of the NEC than there will be actual foot soldiers.

      And the top table of the SNP seem to be completely oblivious to this minor matter.
      (Or don’t give a flying fuck about it).

    23. Ronald Fraser says:

      Oneliner 10.26am

      “Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.”


    24. SOG says:

      If I were still a member, I’d be asking Pete M the actual cost of running the NEC, in the previous financial year. I’m not sure I’d get a reply, though. But it seems a relevant question.

    25. paul says:

      Look but do not touch

    26. Contrary says:

      Haha, priceless.

      Oh dear oh dear – go on then, NEC, convince us you are not a shady cabal from under cover of anonymity and not wanting to be named, no shadiness there at all: obviously we have to just have faith and believe, without question, a statement that could have been made by any random Russian bot. Not shady or cabal-like in the slightest.

      Haven’t Russian bots ever heard of IRONY?

      Priceless. Thick as mince.

    27. Contrary says:

      Hmm, yes, I think Stoker is right, and perhaps it might be worthwhile for everyone to check out the final comment on the last article.

    28. Beaker says:

      @kapelmeister says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am
      “It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.”

      Sounds like an M&S advert… or perhaps S&M would be more appropriate.

    29. Bob Mack says:

      Mind you,to be fair, it seems not all NEC members are necessarily notified that meetings are taking place.

      You would imagine that ordinarily you would feel something pretty shifty was taking place when you were committed .

      However, maybe they have become accustomed to such behaviour.

    30. kapelmeister says:

      Beaker @11:06

      By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.

    31. Beaker says:

      @kapelmeister says:
      1 November, 2020 at 11:20 am
      “By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.”

      That has just put a most unwelcome image in my mind. And now it is in everyone else’s 🙂

      More seriously, if someone will only speak anonymously, there are either NEC rules preventing disclosure, or the speaker is afraid of someone else who has far more influence.

    32. Sharny Dubs says:

      It would seem the NEC has become much like the majority of the woke “community” more akin to a high school debating club,

      but, but, but, what if, or maybe (you can’t talk you don’t have the conch shell, to paraphrase Lord of the Flies, I believe)

      If it’s so mundane and boring why don’t they publish the minutes of meetings in full (with names of course) or better still record them and post them on utube.

      Go on bore us! I dare you!

      A more worrying aspect is how did the SNP management ever let this happen? An even bigger high school debating club? Mibbie! Or is it they just don’t give a flying f#*k.

    33. Wee Chid says:

      I’m an “ordinary member” and they certainly seem like some shady cabal to me. Trying to put things right with better nominees for the NEC – although the site for voting is horrendous. Takes three or four clicks to register your nomination but it can be easily removed accidentally with one click. No submit button either and the only way you know you have registered your choice is when the button changes from nominate to “remove nomination”. If no change to the NEC then I’m giving up on them for good.

    34. Sharny Dubs says:

      Beaker @11:23.
      To quote Zappa.
      … eventually me and my friend sort of drifted along into S & M, I can take about an hour on the tower of power…..

      Horrible image indeed


    35. Marie Clark says:

      “We’re ot some shady cabal”. Blimey, they don’t do irony do they.

    36. Wee Chid says:

      Dan says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:19 am

      “A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.”

      I believe there are lists of people recommended by The SN Women’s Pledge Group and also a list created, I think, by Joanna Cherry.

    37. susanXX says:

      They can say they’re not a shady cabal all they like, people see them differently and not in a good way.

    38. Socrates MacSporran says:

      It’s the Scottish way – follow the lead of the Establishment.

      I am reminded of the advice given to ayoung Elder, attending his first General Assembly. He asked the Elder next to him: “What do I do? How do I vote?”

      His guide pointed to the late Lord MacLeod of Iona and said: “Whatever he does, however he votes – you do likewise.”

      I fear a lot of that thinking still goes on around the NEC and the Party’s high heid yins.

    39. Daisy Walker says:

      Message for the Rev,

      I’ve sent you a message re Soapbox entry.

      Be very useful / practical if you could respond in some form or another.

    40. Socrates MacSporran says:


      I should have written: Lord MacLeod of Fuinary.

    41. Daisy Walker says:

      If Craig Murray were to be elected President of the SNP – it would shed a more high profile light on the dodgy court case they are attempting to stitch him up with.

      For all the remaining SNP members out there.

      Just a wee thought. Plus he’s a good un.

    42. katherine hamilton says:

      We are not a shady cabal. Hmmm. OK, I wonder who I’ll decide not to be today. Is deciding who you are “not”, the same as self-ID, where you can decide what you “are”?
      Oh this is such good fun!

      We’re being run by a pre-school playgroup.

    43. boris says:

      For those that asked for the advice. Full list of NEC candidates (near the end of the blog) together with recommendations, (emboldened names)

    44. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’ve sent you a message re Soapbox entry.”

      I have no emails from you, including in the spam filters.

    45. Ottomanboi says:

      The media are addicted to fear….and our politicians just love the powerful multi-orgasms
      Politicians have always lied but now they indulge the Platonic ‘noble lie’ to keep us safe from our reckless ourselves.
      Which is worse being free to be reckless or even irresponsible or that of compliantly swallowing the next dose of the lie liberally laced with mind numbing fear.
      Scottish independence is about freedom. The dissemblers are taking us on a ride in the opposite direction. Quarantined in their hubris bubble they think we haven’t noticed.
      Prick the bubble, prick their arrogance and conceit. They are accountable.

    46. Ottomanboi says:

      “It was a day when I was preparing a speech to be delivered in praise of the Emperor: there would be a lot of lies in the speech and they would be applauded by those who knew that they were lies.”
      The Confessions of St. Augustine

    47. Breeks says:

      “We’re not some shady cabal”, said an anonymous spokesman for some shady cabal.

    48. Willie says:

      Absolutely right Alf Baird, Scotland needs a National Party focussed on independence. That is what the SNP was supposed to be but sadly isn’t at the moment.

      Policy capture by a minority group and a leadership opposed to independence is what has happened. Why it has happened is a matter of debate but what is for sure is that it won’t stay that way.

      COVID has been a blessing for the coterie of control. There is no doubt about that and the leadership have schemed under its cover. However, the membership has now woken up to what has been going on and they are not going to wear it. And if the leadership doesn’t change that membership will move elsewhere.

      A ready made National Party could be a reality quicker than you could think. Indeed with the Scottish Parliament under threat, Brexit, the U.K. Internal Market Bill and a collapsing economy, now is just about the right time to start a new party.

      Indeed with the SNP leadership now at odds with the membership they fail to realise that the membership will, en masses move to another vehicle taking with them knowhow and commitment that other parties could only dream of.

      A list party with big names capitalising on the public dissatisfaction would without doubt be seat winner. But so to could high profile independents targeted against sitting MSP’s who have let the side down.

      The coterie of control might indeed have a lot less control than they think. Outflanked and outgunned is how it will be. They don’t have a god given monopoly. If the members and the movement shift elsewhere – as they will be if nothing changes, history will record the shabby wreckage to be similar to that of New Labour.

      The next few months I think will be interesting.

      The SNP leadership is now at odds with the membership. Everything has been centralised and control seized by the

    49. Robert Hughes says:

      Ottomanboi . I’ve been following Ivor Cummins’s videos for a few months now , he’s been like an oasis of calm sanity in a desert of deliberately induced hysteria , giving the lie to the insanity of continuing governmental Lockdowns and Restrictions . I’ve also appreciated the links to related articles you’ve posted here , all excellent , for which , thanks . I keep thinking eventually the general public will see through the fog of propaganda and realise what’s driving all this and what the implications are for all of us , alas, so far , the mass-hypnosis seems to still be intact

    50. Jim Mcquire says:

      The NEC needs a clear out starting with the self serving Rihannon Spear. Tommy Shepherd has been giving stories to the UNIONIST press and is the cancer within the party. Don’t fall for the court jester act, he is a nasty piece of work who does not give a shit about independence. Then Roz Currie, who is bad enough to fail vetting for her toxicity but good enough for the NEC. The YSI lot should be cast adrift too as they are a bunch of over ambitious kids who are only thinking about their own careers and do not give a shit about independence. I hope the YSI lot trying to get selected just now lose big time. We need more like Joanna Cherry who has the courage to speak out

    51. kapelmeister says:

      Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.

    52. Hatuey says:

      The NEC only became the focus when ordinary members started questioning the leadership and policy; the emphasis on it reflects internalised strife and division caused by you-know-who.

      That’s what she does. She could cause a fight in an empty NEC.

    53. mike cassidy says:

      ‘Cabal’ was in use before Charles 2


      1670 A. Marvell….. The governing Cabal..are Buckingham, Lauderdale, Ashly, Orery, and Trevor. Not but the other Cabal [Arlington, Clifford, and their party] too have seemingly sometimes their Turn.

      Not sure BLAOT would have caught on

    54. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”

      Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.

    55. CameronB Brodie says:

      Contrary to the opinion that I’m simply here to troll and stroke my ego in public, I’ve actually been trying to point folks towards a scientifically, ethically, and legally informed approach to social emancipation. I would not have gone to the efforts and extent I have, if folks hadn’t expressed a need to understanding issues such as the proposed GRA amendments.

      However, given folks apparently aren’t interested in learning how to defend their legal rights, there’s not much point in my trying to help. I do get triggered by those who are keen to twist reality though, so I’ll leave you with the reminder that the WOKE perspective was designed to counter neo-liberalism. So WOKE is good. The NEC does not support WOKE policy though, they support policy that is consistent with eugenics and totalitarianism.

      So best of luck to all open minded and reasonable patriots out there, as you’re certainly up against it with the shower of shite that now controls the SNP, and our government’s legal practice.

    56. lothianlad says:

      It seems that Midlothian CA is a smaller vertion of the NEC.
      Now that is a shady cabal!

      Littered with Anti Indepedence careerists led my a very uninspiring MP and MSP, the sense of entitlement would shame the british aristocracy!

      The MP lost a 10,000 Majority in 2017, then the full steam stop brexit bus ran out of fuel, so it wont be travelling on the road to Independence any time soon. Why would it? devolution has served these people well!

      Scotland freedom will be the price.

      How I despise these self seeking careerist politicians!

    57. Lorna Campbell says:

      O wad some powe’r the giftie gie us… They certainly appear like a shady cabal from here. They are not acting like a NEC, but like a meeting place for different lobbying groups. Lobbying interests are the real scourge of the political system these days, and the more cash washing around within these groups (e.g. the more extreme elements of the trans lobby, financed by big money – 0.3% of the population as against 51-2%) and the louder they shout, the more they are heard. It seems like they act as the conduit for policies that might not find public favour. I don’t blame people for wishing to rain anonymous because there is also a fair amount of venom washing around, too.

    58. Ronald Fraser says:

      Stoker 10.01am

      Your link to another way, needs spread far and wide,,, today,,,not tomorrow or the next day.

    59. A Person says:

      To fellow Restoration-era enthusiasts trying to remember who was in The Cabal (I couldn’t remember who C stood for; I thought it might be Clarendon but that’s who they replaced)-

      Lucky we don’t have to identify who’s running the kingdom now based on their initials eh?


      I’d have thought Lord Macleod was a thorn in the side of the Kirk establishment as he devoted much of his career to fighting poverty and war? Opposed Billy Graham’s cheap hustler Christianity too?

    60. Ronald Fraser says:

      We need to move fast against the so called “wise guys” running the SNP.

      Their idea of holding indyRef2 sometime in the 2030s is for the birds.

      Our only lines of communication with the EU are being cut at the end of this year.

      After that, it’s all down hill.

      Where Scotland WILL become just another Region of Northern Britain.

      With the same relevance to Westminster as Greater Manchester.

    61. Daisy Walker says:

      test message

    62. Daisy Walker says:


      One last time before I throw the damned computer out the window. Glitches galore today.

      Graeme and I created the below. Would it be suitable for a Soapbox entry. Paticulary as we so near 11/11/20.


    63. Republicofscotland says:

      So two anonymous NEC members, claim that the NEC isn’t a shady cabal, they couldn’t have come across any shadier if they tried.

      This inept statement hasn’t done a single thing to endear ordinary folk to the NEC members, if anything, its made them more suspicious of it and its members.

      This is reminiscent of BBC officials coming out and claiming that the BBC seek parity when reporting on Scottish independence.

    64. Intractable Potsherd says:

      Oneliner says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am

      As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.

      Do you any evidence or examples of “untruths”? I haven’t seen any.

    65. Joe says:


      Last thread is locked so i’ll have to say this here: your post made for really great reading. Thanks for sharing

    66. Contrary says:

      Stoker’s comment

      provides a link to a tweet from AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, which sounds all very nice and organised and all very grass-rootery, but when I look at the article in the National, the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters how to be properly grassroots like, in a manner in which the SNP will approve of, so as to not offend anyone, particularly our betters in Westminster.

      I wonder if he plans to tell everyone to Wheesht, which is the only current SNP policy I’m aware of.

    67. Dan says:

      Has anybody tried switching Pete Wishart off and on again to see if sorts itself out.

      It’s like he’s become the Indy equivalent of the Murphy Bot 900 a la Moodievision retro vid circa 2015.

    68. Mark Paris says:

      Jim McGuire. Totally agree with you about Shepherd. He is the rot at the heart of it all. Rejected by labour and used SNP to claim what he views as his rightful place in Westminster. He has all the YSI and young Edinburgh councillors do his dirty work for him. Look at his shenanigans in Edinburgh Eastern. Trying to unseat Ash Denham by putting up the useless Kate Campbell. He went to the Times with a false story about Denham and Kate Campbell stupidly put her name to it. Tommy’s useful idiot! He is using the GRA to whip up the YSI lot against Denham who opposes it all because she does not do what he says. He promises all these YSI and young councilors seats at the big table but uses them all for his own means. He needs ousted from the NEC now. He is the cause of all the issues there.

    69. Livionian says:

      Even the worst communist regimes in history let people know who was in the politburo

    70. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, is to be addressed by Ian Blackford.

      FFS @Contrary says at 2:38 pm

      Don’t have a problem with that as long as all Blackford says says is sorry for letting Scotland get dragged out of the EU despite his promises to the contrary and then sits the fuck down and listens to the Yes Groups.

      The SNP need the YES Groups (to canvas for Holyrood 2021), the YES Groups do not need the SNP.

      Hopefully Blackford will be sent packing with a very loud and clear message to deliver to Bute House.

    71. Contrary says:

      Dan, that’s an interesting tweet from Pete Wishart, who uses ‘listvotesense’ as a source to support his view – who or what is this ‘listvotesense’ that has sprung up? An entire Twitter account and blog site dedicated to ‘informing’ the public about how to vote – and claiming to be the site that unionists hate – so, without bothering to read any of their articles, we jump straight to their ‘about’ page – you know, the one that tells us their background, their affiliations, and their ráison d’être :—–370b72532791——————————–

      And, yes, a somewhat bank page. In the same manner as the transparency we have come to expect,,, from the SNP. Not shady or cabal-like at all. Well, if you admire and wish to emulate the Westminster parties, you might as well go the whole hog.

    72. Kenny J says:

      Stoker says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:06 am

      At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’

      I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      1 November, 2020 at 3:27 am

      I’m locking this thread, because I cannot tell you how fucking sick I am of the fighting here.

      Cameron: TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.

      Stuart. Have to say, spot-on.
      I seem to remember it mentioned, by himself possibly,he had had a head, or brain injury, several years ago.
      Does get a bit waring, skipping over.

    73. Contrary says:


      Haha, yes, that would be a situation I wouldn’t have a problem with.

      I doubt that would be Ian Blackford’s vision, though.

      And I wonder how many Yes Groups might be reluctant to join, just from having ANY SNP involvement? I don’t think it’s a good move to invite in any SNP infiltration – it makes the ‘grassroots’ part sound like a sham.

    74. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      1 November, 2020 at 1:08 pm
      “Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”

      Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.’

      Least the NEC would be tolerable to a rap beat. 🙂

    75. Hatuey says:

      Let’s be honest, we all knew years ago that there was an unhealthy blurring of the lines between the grassroots groups and the party. Nobody has ever really explained or understood the relationship.

      If Sturgeon has done us one favour in the last 6 years, she has drawn attention to the lack of organisation and impetus the grassroots movement has, so much so that she has been able to disregard and shun it without a care.

      Sturgeon wants the Indy movement to be cheerleaders and fundraisers for her and the party. Nothing more. I’m sure she’s not the only one in the SNP that wants that.

      The Yes Juggernaut, as someone called it in an earlier thread, scared the life out of the British Establishment; they thought it would stall after the result of 2014, but the engine continued to roar…

      That juggernaut needs a cabin and a crew to guide it. A lot of us are wondering how you exert pressure on the SNP right now, talking about new parties, NEC rules, etc., maybe the answer has been staring us all in the face.

      If this was to be done rationally, the grassroots would organise through an umbrella group like AUOB, and they’d consider fielding candidates and challenging the SNP leadership when it veers from the path of independence.

      Imagine all the energy of ordinary people, local groups, and the grassroots more widely, channeled positively, socially and politically, and able to concentrate its weight on specific points, raising funds, backing candidates, etc.

      The independence movement needs a vehicle like that and deserves it, if only to keep the SNP good and true. It could be a massive driving force in Scotland for all sorts of good stuff, arts, politics, everything, and it needn’t be short of funds.

      The SNP and others like the BBC take advantage of the fact that there’s a shortage of funds out there amongst the grassroots, allowing them to pick off people, co-opt them, play them, undermine them, etc.

    76. Dan says:

      @ Contrary at 3.13pm

      It’s not the first time PW has utilised that particular account for pushing the Both Votes SNP narrative.

      Jeggit tweeted this a couple of weeks back and he seems pretty sure he knows who is behind it.

      You’d think an astute politician would at least begin to think about the reasons why folk are questioning or becoming despondent with the party they normally vote for and are now considering other options…

    77. Liz says:

      I like the idea of a Yes movement. The SNP are post, we need to take the reigns.
      One reason thete was so much negativity towards AUOB IMO, is that it scared the shit out of the control freaks

    78. Wee Chid says:

      Contrary @2.38pm

      Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be ther to put them all to sleep.

    79. Wee Chid says:

      Contrary @2.38pm

      Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be there to put them all to sleep.

    80. Ian McCubbin says:

      Effijy says:
      1 November, 2020 at 9:49 am
      Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
      Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
      Transparency at their next branch meeting.

      They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
      Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….

      It just gets worse by the day!

      Happy to do so whenever that may be.
      At present my branch secretary like me feels a virtual zoom committee meeting would attract about 3 of us, her the chair and me.
      All others don’t use Internet often never mind zoom.
      If we held one we would be none quorate.
      But it’s on file to bring up.

    81. crazycat says:

      For those wanting guidance about voting for Holyrood candidates and NEC etc positions, this twitter account is helpful:

      There are updates and suggestions from other tweeters, so keep checking!

      For instance, today there is a tweet ( from Chris McCusker, who has only just found out that he needs 100 nominations before asking members in the West of Scotland to actually vote for him. The nominations can come from anywhere.

      I’m mentioning that, not just because I think Chris would be a useful addition to the NEC, but also because it applies to all the other good candidates too.

      Nominate first, then vote for those who receive enough support to stand.

    82. Wee Chid says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      1 November, 2020 at 11:57 am


    83. Dan says:

      Cheers to boris @ 12.01pm and crazycat @ 4.06pm for info on NEC candidates.

      Here’s the actual tweet by Denise with names rather than the tweet account. As over time that tweet will disappear down the timeline.

    84. Ian Foulds says:

      thank you Muscleguy at 9.32am

    85. Contrary says:


      Re the dodgy ‘ listvotesense’ blog and Twitter – Thanks for the heads up, it’s kind of obvious it’s going to be an insider of some kind – I mean, how badly could you set something up so it looks like it has zero credibility? And that one of our MPs – so careful to ONLY use either MSM or establishment sources for their info normally – uses said dodgy site. So, PW knows who it is, and knows it has no credibility (and I noticed Mhairi Hunter sticking her oar in somewhere along the line of threads) – if it did, their name and interests would have been declared.

      Bunch of charlatans. They are actively tried to con the voting public.

    86. Ronald Fraser says:

      All this “NEC” shite reminds me so much of Scottish Labour and the Labour Party as a whole.

      Flash backs to the days of Lamont and Murphy, fills me with utter sickening dread that Scotland has to go through all this secrecy AGAIN.

      Why do we need to try and keep the SNP sweet?

      It’s like begging your torturer to stop beating you so much.

    87. Ronald Fraser says:

      Contrary 4.31pm

      I remember all sorts of dodgy Unionist sites popping up in the run up to indyRef1, aided and abetted by the bastards of BBC Scotland.

    88. John Burgess says:

      Aye, there is a list being shared with all of the suspected 5th columnists about with a few names on the NEC on it. Tommy Shepherd is at the top. No surprises there. He needs to be put out of the NEC along with Spear and all of the YSI.

    89. crazycat says:

      @ Dan at 4.23

      Thank you; I posted the link to the whole account, not just the one tweet, deliberately, to encourage people to read the whole thing, because there are others joining in with their own suggestions.

      Denise has pinned the tweet about MSP candidates, but as you say, the other lists will move down the line. I expect she’ll keep reposting them, though; she usually does that.

      (I also think she deserves to be read more widely in general! So anything that takes people to her twitter has to be good.)

    90. SNP members. To support office-holder nominations, log-in to
      Click: My Account>Elections>Nominations
      Click “Nominate” for your candidates. I had to click up to 4 times before some of them registered. “Nominate” becomes “Remove Nomination” when you successfully nominate. Craig Murray for President!

    91. Contrary says:


      I believe what you are talking about organising is a political party. If it’s a political party, IMO it is no longer grassroots.

      I lost a fairly long comment on Friday, that was suggesting a way to organise – not the whole grassroots right enough – but pulling together some other folks’ ideas into one. Daisy’s £1 million crowdfunder; Breeks’ ideas on alternative ways of getting independence – without politicians; a few comments about people wanting to physically give signatures to a covenant; Ian Brotherhood’s willingness to make a stand. Be assured it was a great plan, and extremely well-written, but it’s lost to the ether now, and the moment has passed. It was only really to encourage debate anyway.

      I don’t think the ‘grassroots’ should organise under a controlling umbrella, or have the controlling influence ‘leadership’ implies. There is a Yes Groups App is there not? That should give sufficient links for people to get ideas together and communicate with each other – if there can’t be agreement there, well, there won’t ever be agreement under any ‘leadership’ either. If that’s what people want to do though, then they should go ahead. But, I believe that, if it hasn’t happened naturally, then forcing it isn’t going to work. I’m assuming here that most Yes Groups like having their freedom and independence.

      Just like the idea of AUOB – who, I’m sure, have the best of intentions – think bringing everyone together,,, then having a political representative telling them what to, is a good idea? That’s political to my mind, and is just another form of control – as soon as something becomes ‘organised’, it can be controlled. We leave ourselves vulnerable.

      Having lots of disorganised groups might not be efficient, and might not get us anywhere fast, but at least we know that there isn’t one big mass of infiltration, there are still groups that can be ‘trusted’. When the right idea comes along that the majority want to get behind – then we have the winning strategy – then we have all the leadership we need. Doing everything the BritNat way has been tried, it hasn’t worked, so try something else.

    92. Daisy Walker says:

      I’ve been trying to submit the following to the Rev via Soapbox. But there is a computer glitch.

      Can I get a little bit of feedback. See if anyone here thinks its worthy. If you like it, pass it on.


      Made by me n Graeme. First effort. Be kind.

    93. Contrary says:

      Ronald Fraser,

      Aye, tell me about it, I didn’t even spot near half of them at the time. A ‘grassroots’ group in favour of the Union certainly rang alarm bells though!

      Its like the SNP are trying to do their own poor-man version, what with not having control of the BBC. Its a bit cringe-worthy, but it likely works on enough people that want to believe.

    94. Daisy Walker says:

      Re the Comments about Tommy Shepherd. I cannot comment about the man, as I don’t know him or his area.

      What does worry me, is his experience in ‘new labour’ and that he was the first one to publicly talk about any IndyRef2 having to be shelved until after Brexit had been delivered. Wishart followed soon after. At that time, all the Yessers, and SNP members were confident and had a game plan they were following…. now gone or divided.

    95. Contrary says:

      Wee Child at 4.02pm

      Heh, yeah, that’s another consideration – a strange choice of speaker if you want to inspire everyone.

    96. Contrary says:


      I can’t access that you tube link, if you can give me some search criteria, I’ll search for it though – I still have half an hour left of my allocated ‘avoid housework’ time, so can watch if it’s not too long.

    97. Daisy Walker says:

      The You Tube site has been named (at least in the first instance) Scottish Singers and Songs

      The song is called Bombing is the London Way

      the link is https://

      And I’ve just tried it and it seems to be working. Good luck (I so hate computers).

    98. @Daisy Walker,

      is this it,

    99. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Scott 5.38 version – that’s it. Well done.

    100. OldPete says:

      Just voted for Craig Murray as the SNP need a plan B,C and D.

    101. ScottieDog says:

      Well done daisy walker!

    102. Daisy Walker says:

      @ ScottieDug

      And Graeme without whom it would never have got done.

    103. Breeks says:

      Excellent Daisy, if excellent is the right word to use.

      Can you imagine how it would feel, if those were Syrian MP’s laughing and cheering about bombing the UK, and then proceeded to level the place, houses, civic buildings, schools, hospitals, seeing all the chronology of your towns and cities blown to bits.

      Ending the UK won’t end their warmongering madness, but from Independence Day forward, it will be England’s shame, no longer Scotland’s.

    104. John Burgess says:

      Shepherd needs to be put out of the NEC along with all of the YSI. He is the one who brought the Labour disease into the NEC. Total hypocrite who claims to be a socialist but is a millionaire living in a big Southside townhouse. His puppet Kate Campbell making a big issue about an MP sending her son to private school however she went too along with her Fettes educated partner (who works for Shepherd!!!). Don’t trust this mob as they are just opportunist trying to launch their careers in an SNP high tide. They are not for independence. Everyone can see through the YSI who spend more time trolling SNP MSPs and ranting about side issues than independence. Salmond would never had put up with this shite. Makes you wonder who is in charge. Keep at it Stuart. Don’t let these charlatans blow our chance of independence in exchange for their own vanity.

    105. Hatuey says:

      contrary @ 5.05 “what you are talking about organising is a political party”

      No, something much bigger than that. A societal party.

      There’s got to be close to a million people in Scotland who support independence. Not all of them want to engage beyond voting for the SNP, that’s fine, but a lot do.

      How many other organisations can put 200 thousand people on the blustery streets of Glasgow at the drop of a hat?

      Right now all that energy and good will isn’t channeled. It amounts to nothing. Everybody is too busy online trying to be A.J. Ayer or fighting some inconsequential personal battle that will ultimately satisfy nobody.

      Organisation could do something about all that. Create an umbrella group, invite all the significant organisations, Common Weal, Yes Groups, Wings, Hope Over Fear, Bella, etc., and have them come up with a constitution and structure that puts power in the hands of the grassroots.

      It’s easy to imagine a board of some sort that represents everybody, with say half the board elected by ordinary people (members) and the other half by the various pro-indy organisations. Since everybody would be included, everybody would matter.

      Right now none of us matter, not even Wings; it’s become a sort of game of tearing at each other, Twitter bans, and one-upmanship. Stu more or less said that himself the other day.

      It wouldn’t be long before an organisation like that had a lot of weight to throw around, funding arts, writers, political candidates, movie makers, you name it.

      If the joining fee was as little as £10 per year, it would soon have untold funds. And for that £10 you would get a lot more than you get for the £50 or so many currently give the SNP – an organisation that is constitutionally hard-wired to fight for the Independence Movement and further the cause of Independence.

      If such a group existed today, the SNP would be forced to get its act together. As it is they don’t need to even listen to us – actually it looks like they are going in the opposite direction and doing everything they can to undermine and degrade their own members, never mind the wider grassroots who have been treated with total contempt lately.

    106. Contrary says:

      Daisy Walker, that was excellent, what a lovely singing voice you have! And the line ‘ye dinnae mak yer fortune on an MPs pay’ is a really good one, catchy. The video is really well put together.

      Now the critique – YouTube need you to sign in as proof of age – I assume this is because of a lot of the imagery used. Although images of dead babies gets tough messages across, it will limit your audience.

      I think I was waiting for the ‘point’ in the video, after the intro of the vote in parliament and the distinction made for SNP votes, I thought there might be some other message on that point, or wanted something less subtle. That might just be me, of course, wanting more documentary narrative – the message you put across: that they make their fortune bombing children comes across clear. That a vote in parliament has consequences, more serious consequences than their braying and jeering in that place implies, is clear.

      Well done to both. As a first go, it looks professional, and I would never have thought it was a first attempt.

    107. Scott Dunnes says:

      All of these NEC and YSI claiming to be grassroots! How can you be on the NEC, a post holder in the YSI or seeking nomination whilst working for a parliamentarian and claim to be grassroots! Pull down the NEC and kick out all the woke brigade and the opportunists and get in those committed to independence. Really getting sick of all this. I see a few names on this thread coming up repeatedly. There should be a list of those NOT to vote for in the NEC. Kill off their ambitions before they kill off ours.

    108. Big Jock says:

      The answer to this is simple.

      If you are not a shady cabal, then stop acting like one. In other words prove is wrong.

      Words are just words, your actions tell a different story. People are rightly judged by their actions.

      The NECs actions are that of a control freak , obsessed with a niche pursuit of gender assignment and not independence.

      I rest my case your honour. Guilty!

    109. Robert Hughes says:

      Hatuey . I really like the sound of that . I’ve long thought the reliance on established parties to achieve our goal was a possible dead-end , particularly since the ostensible Party of Independence has apparently abandoned it’s raison d’etre , or is playing such a long game the latent/frustrated energy you refer to will have dissapated , and we know the inherent problems entailed in the inevitable focus on ” Personalities ” within political parties and MSM . The main obstacle to such an approach could be one of engagement , how many would be prepared to give the necessary time and commitment ? Still think it’s an idea with great potential nonetheless

    110. ScottieDog says:

      @ Daisy Walker
      Of course and well done Graeme!

    111. Breeks says:

      Contrary says:
      1 November, 2020 at 2:38 pm

      …. the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters…

      Maybe, but I think he’d be unceremoniously boo’d off the stage if he did.

      I’m not defending the man, but being purely objective, if YES can draw out those parts of the SNP who are disillusioned with Sturgeon and the Wokerati, then you’d imagine it will leave the SNP looking weak and emaciated, with Nicola and GRA scarecrows looking spent and increasingly irrelevant.

      Blackford too did say the words in Westminster. Check back in Hansard, and the ultimatums are in there… They could be important further down the line. I’m very curious why both Blackford and Joanna Cherry have both made the right noises, but then pulled their punches… or maybe had them pulled.

      “IF” the bulk of the SNP can be salvaged, that is probably the best result for the good of Independence, but the act of salvage will need to be pretty ruthless in getting rid of the wreckers. However, the SNP is the party of Government, with elected representatives, and with that position go certain capacities which would be very useful to maintain. For example, a new Party might be very popular in Scotland, but without any actual democratic mandate, you can bet it would be shunned by Westminster.

      I’m not ruling that out by the way,… I’d be more than happy to take my chances with a Constitutional Convention drawing it’s legitimacy from Scotland’s sovereign Constitution, – but I can readily accept that might be too radical for the majority.

    112. Graeme says:

      Thanks ScottieDog

      But to be fair Daisy directed it more or less from start to finish it’s her song & her vision

    113. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan (1.39am, previous thread) –

      Just to let you know I have been working on something very similar for several years now and Netflix are interested.

      I do hope you won’t raise any awkward copyright/intellectual property objections.


    114. ben madigan says:

      well done Daisy and Graeme.Excellent video and song. Very Scottish-sounding melody and unaccompanied singer hark back to roots in the Gaelic tradition.

    115. Dan says:

      A tale of two Didos…

      The first sang aboot havin’ sand in her shoes.

      The second after spaffing 12,000,000,000 quids of taxpayers’ dosh on failed covid track and trace system should be wearing concrete boots!

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Could anyone who is interested in the protest camp suggestion please consider joining

      I don’t want to use this place to discuss such stuff because

      1. That would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.

      2. The last thing we need right now is WOS being accused of harbouring subversives and rabble-rousers.


    117. Dan says:

      Knock yersel oot Ian. If I cannae get the acting gig and you make the big bucks aff it then I’ll accept a netflix login so I can watch it when it premieres.
      Oh, and a couple of bouteilles of Paul Mason vino for ease of pishin’ whilst attending future lockdown garden parties. 😉

      I have other script ideas if yer interested. There’s a good un’ aboot red squirrel conservation involving romance, eating, drinking, locals, with council, government and EU workers and funding (though I guess the EU aspect will need editing oot noo…)

      Liking the protest ideas by the way. Just struggling for time at moment with work on hoose and tooth isssue.

    118. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dan –

      I think you’ll like it when it is screened. Kind of Twin Peaks meets Trainspotting. The pilot episode is feature-length and the working title is ‘The Hills Have Pehs’. Could be huge.

      Hope you get the choppers sorted asap – sounds nasty.


    119. crazycat says:

      @ Daisy and Graeme

      Well done indeed! I’ll look forward to further episodes.

    120. @Ian Brotherhood: just in case you’re unaware, your LiveJournal blog or individual posts can be set to be viewed by friends only. That’s another useful advantage of LJ.

    121. Dan says:

      These days can one simply Self ID as Welsh?

    122. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy/Graeme –

      Powerful stuff.

      Have shared the link via YT.

    123. holymacmoses says:

      Any ‘new’ group advocated in any way by Mr Blackford is doomed to failure: the man is useless and can bring nothing but derision and scorn to any movement. He is, in fact, the Yoons secret weapon in Westminster.

    124. wull says:

      Robert Bruce is supposed to have advised Scots in general (or maybe his son and eventual successor, though the future David II must have been only a toddler at the time, and would later ignore his advice) to ‘avoid pitched battles’.

      Modern politics is one ongoing never-ending pitched battle, and political parties organise themselves precisely in view of fighting their opponent(s) in that way. This is one of the reasons why modern ‘party politics’, waged in contemporary talk-shop parliaments, in supposedly adversarial terms, is so dull, boring, deadening, ineffective and predictable.

      Quite the turn-off for the ordinary human being. ‘Here they come again …’ With no element of surprise, as all the time-worn platitudes and sonorously silly sound-bites are trotted out yet again … and again … and again.

      There is no element of surprise.

      And most people simply aren’t much interested. Which often suits the purposes of the dim-wit politicians who think themselves so important and powerful, under their self-deluding illusion that the levers of power are all theirs.

      When, in fact, most of the real game is being played elsewhere, without them.

      Bruce was also accused of not being a gentleman. Specifically, because he did not play the game of war according to the rules of the game. He did not follow all the arcane military codes of so-called chivalry.

      Aristocrat though he was, I expect the ‘no gentleman he’ accusation was justified. His ambition was not to be a gentleman but a king, and his purpose was to win. Therefore, when it suited that purpose, he used what today would be killed ‘guerrilla tactics’.

      With, of course, that key element of ‘surprise’ …

      And also the ability to pop up quickly, and disappear again just as quickly. Thereby giving the opponent the impression that he could strike anywhere, and at any time. Maybe making his enemies think he had far more forces than he actually had, and encouraging them to imagine that he could fight on several fronts at the same time. Which … maybe he could, and did; or maybe he couldn’t, and didn’t.

      (‘Maybe aye, and maybe naw …’ to quote another Scottish player and strategist – albeit of a very different kind – who was also sometimes called a ‘king’!)

      All this to say several things go together: the element of surprise … the ability to pop up everywhere … then hunker down again, only to pop up again, especially when least expected … the kind of guerrilla warfare and tactics that bewilders the enemy, and makes them wonder where the attack is going to come from next … the ability to move quickly, strike fast, inflict damage, withdraw, keep quiet for a moment, re-group, turn up again to strike home once more etc.

      Doesn’t the independence movement need something like this? Translated into modern terms, of course. Sure, there can be these solidly organised political parties – also needed – but the grass-roots movement needs to be able to spring up all over the place and in different ways, at different times, and with all kinds of different people, to confuse the enemy and put them into disarray.

      It can’t just be a monolith, which is so heavy that it can neither turn nor move. So committee-bound, so obvious and dull, so weighed down by so many deadening structures and heavy hands. Clanking around in the self-imposed armour that immobilises it, and makes it such a sitting target. A living movement can’t just be a monolith slugging it out with a behemoth. In round after round of ineffectual quasi-confrontation which never achieves any actual result.

      OK, we need political parties etc. But we shouldn’t expect them to do it for us. Nor should we be surprised when they get infiltrated, or simply bogged down in the everyday mud. The independence movement needs people from all strata of society, whose political opinions may (and even should) be very different from each other, but all of whom are agreed on independence. This is needed even for the kind of independence we will get afterwards, if we want it to be genuinely democratic, open and adaptable and acceptable to everyone, inclusive of all.

      In other words, if we want a people’s Scotland, we don’t want one political Party to control the whole thing, or the whole place, or the whole people anyway. It’s not the SNP’s cock-eyed version of Scotland that we are looking forward to, but the real Scotland. O’ a’ the airts and pairts.

      The lumbering monolith that wants to control, dominate, stifle and destroy will get killed off in an independent Scotland. That’ll be the only way to prevent it from killing freedom stone dead. I think it’ll happen anyway, no matter how hard the control freaks at the top try to prevent it. What we are heading towards is Scotland re-born. That’s not going to be a still birth. If the New SNP is proving itself to be nothing more than an even worse imitation of the previous New Labour, then fine – its days are numbered.

      It can’t keep its clammy dead hand on Scotland for ever, or even for long. Look at the terrain. Scotland just has too many corners. It’s too wild. The place is tailor-made for guerrilla warfare.

      That should suit real Scots – of whatever stripe or origin. It’s the people – all kinds of Scottish people – that will gain Scotland’s independence. In that regard I am glad that it won’t, in the end, be achieved by the kind of people who weasle their way into political parties like the SNP, or whatever, and take charge of them. The kind of people who think they know better than everyone else, and who despise and seek simply to manipulate their own grassroots.

      Away with them, such worthless people. Who have nothing to give, and nothing in them, yet they want to boss everyone else around. Filling their own inner void, their numbskull emptiness, with an illusion of power, all hot-air and self-importance.

      In the end, after the initial shock, it is good that all this is being exposed. Scotland is ours, not theirs. Scotland is the people’s, no matter what kind of new-minted puffed-up birkie tries to take it over, from one generation to the next. They won’t be able to control it. They can’t win pitched battles. Just like the behemoth couldn’t beat Bruce and his guerrilla tactics.

      Unlike Bruce, we’re non-violent. But we are still waging a war – albeit by non-violent means. And, like him, we’re having to wage it against enemies within, as well as enemies without. And, like him, we are determined to win, and will do so.

      The enemy can’t control the terrain – too wild, too unpredictable, too many fronts at one time, too diverse (too many nooks and crannies, too many crags and waterfalls, too many mountains and lochs and great barren slopes and lush green grass, glens and escarpments and islands galore and everything you can and can’t imagine: there’s just too much of it, this diversity) – and, for all the same reasons, they can’t beat the people. They just can’t.

      Sure, it’s been continually suppressed, and the crones of modernity’s current chronic ‘mono-chronia’ are doing everything they can to shut it all down again. But they can’t succeed, they just can’t. That diversity always springs back. You can’t keep the lid on it – or, rather, if and when you can, it’s only for so long, until suddenly it all boils over.

      The terrain just doesn’t let you do that. It’s unquenchable, that terrain. And so, too, the people of that terrain. In the end, you can’t keep them down. Whether you’re jumped-up, self-styled so-called sophisticates in Whitehall or Westminster, or half-baked brain-dead Scottish birkies who have greased their way up to the top of the SNP gumtree, or other mini-miniscule politicians who have insincerely stuffed themselves into Holyrood seats and sinecures – no matter who you are, you just can’t!

      I am beginning to see the current implosion – I should say ‘implosions’, because they are everywhere, and in all directions – as maybe the best thing possible. Isn’t the shattering of illusions – always painful at the time – also ultimately beneficial? Couldn’t it be so in this very case?

      The shattering of illusions gives you a jolt into the strong fresh air of reality. The newborn babe cries and screams as it comes crashing out of its locked-down comfort zone into the real world. Yet the real world is where the babe belongs, the theatre in which to act out their existence. Maybe what is happening really is – at long last – that re-birthing of the Scottish people. A re-birthing which has so long and so often threatened, and whose moment has now come.

      After what must be one of the longest gestation periods in human history. We never actually died but, for the greater part of humanity, we have been posted missing for a long time. We were presumed dead, but now we are alive.

      Time to reappear, Scotland. The stage – the world stage – is waiting for us.

    125. wull says:

      Here is a correction to my previous post:

      In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics'”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”

    126. SOG says:

      It was so moving I didn’t watch all of it. I’ll be back to it later. And what a voice you have.

    127. robert Hughes says:

      Wull , a massive YES to all of that . Spot-on

    128. stonefree says:

      @ Daisy Walker at 5:11 pm

      First Class

    129. Contrary says:


      I think I gave the wrong impression by saying ‘that man’ when talking about Ian Blackford – it was a bit derogatory, and right enough I’m not impressed by him – but I really meant that a grassroots movement shouldn’t need endorsed by any politician.

      I really have lost any kind of trust in the SNP, and any group being endorsed by any of their politicians would just make me think,,, they were getting rounded up. They aren’t going to address an assembly by saying ‘we have control of you now’,,, well, I don’t think so anyway. But the whole thing is a bit too ‘establishment’, and next people will be worrying about what they say in case it’s the ‘wrong thing’ and saying things like ‘imagine what the newspapers would say’. And there we go, another lot gone down the sell-out path. We need something different, maybe lots of different things.

      Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry will be up to something – they are politicians after all, so they must be. It’s most likely to do with jostling for power in the party, maybe something else, who knows. But I also noted they’ve backed off a bit.

      I no longer recognise Westminster as a legitimate ruling authority in Scotland, so I don’t give a shit who they shun or don’t shun. But, yeah people. People still listen to them, and the SNP. Unfortunately you are right about the Constitutional Convention being too radical for people too. Let’s face it, eating cold pizza for breakfast is too radical for most of the people in Scotland, so we really are going to be stymied on the best ideas just by most folks’ idea of what’s ‘acceptable’.

    130. Ronald Fraser says:

      Wull 7.47pm

      “Here is a correction to my previous post:

      In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics’”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”

      No need wull, I fell asleep during the 6th…

      Boom Boom!!!

    131. Contrary says:

      Wull (at 7.47 pm)


      Absolutely spot on. And very well said.

      What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.

      Mm-hmm, guerrilla tactics.

    132. @Daisy Walker,

      i remember watching Benn`s speech,

      disgusting as it was i could tell it would play well to the deluded lovers of the Great Brutish Empire,

      always makes me sick when i see Benn get up in parliament espousing socialist values,

      his hands are as bloody as the pilot of the war plane or pilot of the deadly drone,


      thought the lyrics and the singing were powerful as was the video.

    133. wull says:

      Thank you very very much, Daisy Walker, and also Graeme. For that very moving video, which is beautifully put together. A beautiful song, and beautifully sung: so very true, and so very sad. Thank you, truly.

      And thank you to Scot Finlayson, for giving us the link, as posted above at 5.38. Everyone should watch and listen to this.

    134. Daisy Walker says:

      Graeme, We seem to be getting a few good reviews – and I mean it when I say it didn’t happen without you!

      There are moves afoot.

      Would you like to do a couple more? You have one song already… Welsh Sion, if you are listening We need Wales and Wales needs this next song… To the tune of ‘what a friend we have in Jesus”

      What’s the point in voting Labour
      Labour only will abstain
      except when claiming their expenses
      then these troughers known no shame

      They were only flipping houses
      They were only starting wars
      Not a Socialist among them
      Sold out for the House of Lords


      Welsh Sion…the Scots had a very steep learning curve. If you guys can learn it quick, lighting fast quick… the old adage that the BritNats always divide and conquer, becomes their own medicine.

      We’ve always told our English neighbours we can still be friends. But see when it comes to the Welsh and the Irish We are family.

      Please let them know of the above video Bombing is the London Way… I am well aware that the figure 26:13 and the term Cannon Fodder, applies just as much for the Welsh and the Irish and the Geordies .

      A good song has no borders, only hearts.

      One bit of decency at a time folks. It has started.

    135. wull says:

      Contrary says:
      1 November, 2020 at 8:29 pm
      Wull (at 7.47 pm)


      Absolutely spot on. And very well said.

      What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.

      To be honest, I only know the word from Burns, in the third verse of A Man’s a Man for A’ That’:

      Contrary says:
      1 November, 2020 at 8:29 pm
      Wull (at 7.47 pm)

      Absolutely spot on. And very well said.

      What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.

      Many thanks, Contrary, and thanks also to others for their comments too.

      In answer to your question, I know the word ‘birkie’ only from Burns. It occurs in one of the verses of ‘A Man’s a Man for A’ That’, as follows:

      Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord,
      Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
      Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
      He’s but a coof for a’ that:
      For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
      His ribband, star, an’ a’ that:
      The man o’ independent mind
      He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.

      Knowing it only from that verse, the word always had thoroughly negative connotations for me. Looking round the internet to answer your question, some dictionaries seem to make it more neutral, or even potentially positive, but I don’t know if they are right.

      Someone more knowledgeable than me might put us right on that. Is it always negative, like I had presumed? Or can it sometimes be positive?

      One dictionary said it meant an ‘assertive man’, which I suppose you can take negatively or positively, as you wish, depending on context.

      Yet surely the best known use of the word is now in that verse from Burns, which makes it entirely negative. The kind of ‘assertion’ Burns is referring to is obviously inflated, jumped-up, unfounded pretentiousness, so nothing good about it.

      Thanks to Burns, ‘birkie’ will always have that negative connotation for me.

    136. Graeme says:

      Thank you Daisy

      I have a copy of the Labour song, I’ve had a listen and I have a few ideas I’ll go over them with you and see what we come up with 🙂

    137. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Wull (7.47) –

      What you’re saying there seems to be tapping into a general feeling that things are about to go fuckin pear-shaped in general.

      And that’s okay.

      Because in the comments on this thread alone we can see individual projects and collaborations producing results. Daisy/Graeme, others getting together over at I suspect we all know other folk who are working on their own stuff, perhaps never coming near here.

      Rev Stu said, just a couple of days ago, btl, that he may chuck it depending on how things pan out with the FM, the harassment inquiry etc. And that’s fair enough. It would be horrible if this place shut down but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would, however, make it quite difficult to locate each other!

      So this may be a good time for all of us to consider what it is we really value in terms of shared interests, and how we can keep the ‘Wingers’ vibe going beyond the life of this place. What Daisy and Graeme have done is an example.

      We can all – individually – act towards the same goal: ‘Unity chops elephants’ an aw that.


    138. wull says:

      Ronald Fraser @ 8.12

      I hope you enjoyed your wee nap. Sorry about the delayed effect: the sixth was quite far …

    139. Iain Lawson says:

      Sorry to disappoint but nobody is going to be reducing the size of the NEC anytime soon. I am being told all resolutions on that topic and other constitutional issues have been handed to the recently established Keith Brown enquiry which has to report before Conference 2021,

      So the Woke place folk have been handed a free pass for another year at least. Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.

    140. auld highlander says:

      D & G earlier, that’s so true and well done the pair of you. I’ve sent it off to a few folks earlier tonight.


      How refreshing to have a day without the never ending deluge of you know what. I really hope it continues.

    141. Daisy Walker says:

      I said the above a wee bit before.

      I rattled it off the cuff.

      But I’m looking at it again with a cool head and … it is so true.

      A good song knows no borders – only hearts.

      … Underneath the arches,,, da da da da de da
      la, la la la la……la, la la, la la

      Me and Maralyne Detriech.. we knew. Us n’ Cactus;)

    142. Alf Baird says:

      birkie [?b?rk?, ?b?rk?, ?b?rk?]
      n. A lively, a plucky little fellow.
      pl. birkies Fine fellows, lads of parts
      adj. Lively, spirited. Sharp or tart in speech.


    143. wull says:

      Thanks, Ian Brotherhood, @ 9.24.

      I think you’re right. And you are certainly right about what Daisy and Graeme have done. They really could touch an awful lot of people with that, and deserves to.

      I kind of work individually myself – haven’t much alternative, really (though, as well, that’s kind of my temperament too).

      The important thing is not to despair. I do think something is budging all over the place. Like underwater springs suddenly appearing one after the other on the surface.

      And we all know the power of water, once it gets going. True, there needs to be some channelling, but I am not too worried about it. I think what is happening underneath is a real force, and not a destructive one (except in the sense that it will destroy the Union).

      So, let’s look on the bright side. At the same time, I do very much hope that Stuart Campbell will continue with this site, and with all the sterling work he puts in, to such good effect. I think Wings is hugely effective, much more than can be imagined or quantified.

      That’s me done for the night. Keep up all the good work.

    144. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Scott Finlayson re Mr Benn

      His Faither served in the Bombers planes during ww2.

      Which is why AS said his father would be birlin in his grave.

      Tony Benn – the fuck ( and I say that as one who admired him!) decent, kind hearted, moral, English Nationalist, Sort of Socialist – Fuck. The best he could come up with – to soften the blow, after all the oil was found in Scottish Waters, was that there should be a National Reserve set up (mostly for England of course) to soften the blow. But when push came to shove, or just whenever they had the chance, it was ENGLAND FIRST for every one of the little English Socialist brothers in arms.

      Dennis Healey – also served active service in WW2, it changed him forever. Do not underestimate them, or what they lived through. Their parents, brothers, Uncles, Aunts, and every family they ever knew – all of them lived through WW1 and that changed everything.

      As they clung to the wreckage, along came Hitler… and they (Ben and Healey) saw the destruction at first hand… but not just them, The Blitz forced the nobs into the tubes along with the working class… and both the trenches and the mobile nature of WW2 forced through Meritocracy – and rubbed their damned noses in it. And Meritocracy HAD TO BE FORCED.

      It took 2 WORLD WARS to shame the fuckers into understanding that an NHS was the least , the very least they deserved.

      And now they want to undo that… in about 5 – 10 years.

    145. Beaker says:

      @Iain Lawson says:
      1 November, 2020 at 9:25 pm
      “Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.”

      I think you have given someone a new soundbite.

      Better than Willie Rennie’s “sharp eyed focus” or whatever it was he said this morning.

    146. @ wull at 9.20pm: When I was wee, an old auntie of mine from Kirkcaldy used to refer to me as a ‘wee birkie’. I always assumed it to be an affectionate term for a cheeky or boisterous child. Whatever, it was a word in common use in Fife two or three generations ago, if it isn’t now.

    147. Masslass says:

      Watching, reading and listening from USA. Thank you Wull at 7.47pm 1 Nov, and Daisy Walker for the you tube video.

      I have no words other than brilliant to both of you.

    148. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      “What she read, all heady books
      She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.

      You know, I was just looking at Nicola Sturgeon’s Twitter account. The big main photo behind her profile pic is interesting. It’s a photo of what I would assume is her personal library, probably the one she was sat in front of during that mumbling fumbling word-stumbling car crash telly interview recently. If it is, it kind of shows us a couple of things:

      She wants to be taken seriously as a bibliophile and ‘deep’ thinker, and showing us this photo betrays an odd sense of insecurity in her self-presentation. Or maybe she’s just proud of her oh-so-impressive book collection.

      She alphabetises her books by the author’s name.

      She has several volumes by Iain Banks, Val McDermid, Ian Rankin, and Christopher Brookmyre. All Scottish authors, three of the four doing murder/crime/detective work. Judging by that and other crime volumes in her library, random other Scottish stuff like Driftnet, by Lin Anderson, she likes dark-minded things.

      And also…

      It’s not hugely interesting to duck and dive out of her library, judging by the titles you can make out. Certainly has eclectic tastes, but who knows if that’s all her stuff, or something she had partly put together by some window-dresser? Ho-hum.

      Confess, on a different note, that I am finding the state of Scottish politics, and the covid-coughing, coffin-counting country in general, to be pretty depressing. Might take a break for a while. Holding in the existential scream mourning, noon, and nightmare is getting to be pretty damned tiring.

      Watched the Hunter S Thompson documentary Freak Power last night. Superb, if anybody’s interested.

    149. Daisy Walker says:

      Re birkie.. just a thought..

      The English like to poetic like describe their men folk as ‘like an Oak’.

      Burns aft wrote about the Birks (Silver Birch).

      My guess would be ‘birkies’ refers to an upright, young ‘tree’ of a fellow, fine, bright and shiny.

      An siller birkies are a slimmer tree (even at maturity) than oaks. Could it be its sort of a description of ‘bright, shiney, young things’ taking the floor.

      In this day and age I think we’d call them ‘woke’.

    150. @ Daisy Walker: I went to post the following comment on YouTube, but can’t without creating a ‘channel’, which I’ve no desire to do. My comment was, “Very moving and well done. It certainly puts things in perspective and shows Westminster for what it is.”

      I’m not sure how much more misery people can take with things being as they are at present, but I think your video deserves to be seen far and wide.

    151. ElGordo says:

      Just had the opportunity to have a quick look at a draft copy of the SNP 2021 election manifesto.

      Without giving too much away.. it’s just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right.

    152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      The ‘Dictionary of the Scots Language’ offers the following at:-

      1. n.
      (1) An active, smart, lively fellow, gen. young.

      (2) A conceited fellow.

      (3) (See quot.) Edb.3 1929; Edb.1 1934:
      Birkie, a sharp-tongued, quick-tempered person (usually a woman). Sometimes used facetiously to a lively child. [Prob. connected with Birk, v.1, to give a tart answer.]

      I’m only the messenger…

    153. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @BDTT, Daisy et al –

      I’m wondering if Burns was mibbe using it as an equivalent to our ‘bawbag’?

    154. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Michael – Thank you.

      Its the first time I’ve done YT. I’ve set it so no one can comment. The theory is if folk like it they will thumbs up and share.. and if they are Unionist trolls, they will not get a forum.

      No intention to be rude, just realistic. Really glad you, and the other have, liked it.

    155. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Brian

      Bawbag. I’m thinking Burns would have relished that word for its own worth.

      Maybe straying into the territory. Who knows.

    156. Dan says:

      Well the Birks of Aberfeldy relates to the silver birches growing up the glen, and not the eejits in the toon…

    157. Alf Baird says:


      ‘SNP 2021 election manifesto’

      More oppressive law to oppress ordinary folks?
      More budget for COPFS and the polis?
      More meaningless pleading for a S.30?
      More state funded ‘jobs’ for the woke folk?

    158. msdidi says:

      From the glossary in The Complete Illustrated Poems, Songs and Ballads of Robert Burns
      birkie – a lively, young, forward fellow.

      Daisy Walker – love your song/video – I shared it on Facebook page and someone else has posted it on the SNP Members for Independence page.

    159. Contrary says:

      Haha, thanks for all the answers on the meaning of birkies, I think I’m getting a good rounded idea of how the word can be used – I’d have said birches if it wasn’t for the context – a conceited fellow would seem like Burns’ use – and close to Wull’s. And I like the idea of young birch giving the idea of the ‘active, lively young fellow’.

      ‘Ye wee besom’ (pronounced bizzum of course) was what I was called when young – a pest, or a brush. Go figure, words eh!

      ElGordo – did you take a sneaky photo of that draft referendum so we could all observe the unlikely nature of the draft referendum bill ever being used?

    160. Effijy says:

      The English and their media just don’t get it and never will.

      Watched the pride of Britain Awards on TV.
      Lots of courageous kids doing the most selfless things
      to help those I need and one incredible young girl who
      Feeds the parents of hospitalised children struggling
      with food costs away from home received her award fittingly
      From footballer Marcus Rashford who fought for free meals
      For deprived school kids.
      Quite rightly Marcus was given an award too.

      Who could be on next, Boris the bastard and his latest barer of
      Offspring? Boris the man who is stopping the fee meals for deprived kids
      and putting VAT back on all purchases of PPE kit.

      Boris had the nerve to thank the NHS workers who he gave a 15% pay cut
      By capping their salary for several years, stopped their training bursaries,
      and cut their number by charging and repelling foreign NHS doctors and nurses.

      I didn’t see 100% of the show but it looked like all recipients where English?
      Well Britain is the other name for England and local colonies.

    161. Ronald Fraser says:

      The BBC News bulletins, where you get news updates from England and in any other country in the world, every minute of the day.

      (except if you live in Scotland, Wales or N Ireland).

      And just to add Insult to injury, Scottish, Welsh and N Irish residents get sent to jail for refusing to pay the BBC to NOT broadcast a single word about their Nation over a 24 hour period,

      And I mean not broadcast a single statement about any those three Nations, yet they still want you to pay the bastards.

      Where else in the world does this happen?

    162. ElGordo says:

      @Alf Baird

      It’s astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it toll.

    163. holymacmoses says:

      WhoRattledYourCage says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:09 pm
      “What she read, all heady books
      She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.


      Don’t go for too long Mr Rattler – I enjoy reading you

    164. bittie45 says:

      Daisy Walker at 5:33.

      Beautiful voice. Sad and powerful song. Brings home what Westminster is really about.

      Watched without signing in to y’tube at

      The sooner we’re out of this murderous union, the better.

    165. James says:

      Excellent effort, Daisy.

      Don’t forget the ‘Ding Dong Dollar’, excellent song, reminds us that Trident is an excellent independence winner!

    166. Beaker says:

      @Ronald Fraser says:
      1 November, 2020 at 10:51 pm
      “Tomorrow’s National twitter pages:-”

      The article on Swinney caught my eye. I’m tempted to bet Scotland will be put into lockdown next week. Or will that be Tier 4? Fuck knows I’ve given up trying to fathom what is what. Just tell us what we can or cannot do.

    167. boris says:

      He said: “Blair attacked the anti-Israelism that had existed in the Labour Party.” Blair told Levy, “I am absolutely determined that we must not go into the next election financially dependent on the trade unions.”

      The trade off was to embrace “Zionism” which became the pervasive mantra of “New Labour”. The Labour Party became financially dependent on donors with strong views on Israel.

      Lord Levy is estimated to have raised over £15m for the Labour Party and Blair before the “cash for peerages” ended Levy’s illegal fundraising in the summer of 2006.

    168. Sarah says:

      @ Graeme, Daisy and bittie45: excellent piece of work and performance, thank you, Graeme and Daisy, and a good idea to post it so no trolling is possible. And many thanks bittie45 for giving an easy link for non-techs like me!

    169. Ronald Fraser says:

      Beaker 12.21am


    170. Beaker says:

      @Ronald Fraser says:
      2 November, 2020 at 12:47 am
      Beaker 12.21am

      As the actress said to the bishop, ‘Oh yes…’ 🙂

    171. twathater says:

      THANK YOU Graeme, Daisy and Wull you all are part of the reason why people come to Stu’s site, the education , empathy , compassion and the TRUTH, no matter how many times people denigrate , abuse and castigate Stu’s language or abrasive manner one thing he cannot be criticised for is the truth and facts of his journalism

      Compare and contrast the daily excretions taking place re our independence party and their minions , then ask yourself do we really, really want these imbecilic woke parasites being placed in OUR government to determine our and our countries future

      SNP members MUST MAKE A STAND and ensure that these self serving parasites are NOT chosen at selection to enable their party to regroup and renew their obligation to independence, for I for one will not vote for this RABBLE

    172. Melvin says:

      It’s heartening to see that we have SNP NEC members soo dedicated to independence that they hide there names. What a bunch of idiots and saferoom dopes. Unbelievable NEC what a joke either stands up and be counted or drop out for someone with real passion an Dedication.
      Yes I am an SNP Menber

    173. Hatuey says:

      Big week ahead with Brexit, the US election, Covid stuff, etc…. time to revert to the usual gallows humour as a way of coping with being helpless spectators on matters that massively impact our lives. The usual.

      The charade of pretending to be in control when it comes to covid-19 has caught up with ‘us’ it seems. They’re talking about denying us the cash we needs to keep the charade going. But even if we are forced to join England and do lockdown on their terms, the fake lockdown measures we have in place are showing no sign of working anyway.

      It’s the usual lose-lose situation for us, no matter what, just as it has been on Brexit and everything else since 2014.

      There’s a formula in all this that you can use to predict outcomes with. It’s easy. In any given situation, all you need to do is imagine the shittiest outcome possible for Scotland and that’s invariably the one that the SNP will secure.

      “But look at the polls… what about the polls?”

      You know what they’ll say if they win the election next year? They’ll say it proves people want GRA and the Hate Crime Bill. And they’ll say it means people loved the Section 30 strategy.

      See how it works? Lose-Lose every time – even when your team wins.

    174. A Person says:

      -Daisy Walker-

      Your video is very true. It is foreign policy which is Westminster’s real sin. The fact they think they have the right to bomb and kill whoever they like. Truly evil people. Good on you.


      Keep your chin up, what goes up, must come down, and what goes around does eventually come around.

    175. Contrary says:

      Aye, Hatuey,

      It’s grim. It looks bleak. It’s best not too think too hard about about it except for any fight-back strategies. You shouldn’t be thinking these things at 4am, not good for a restful sleep (depends where you are in the world of course!).

      As for the SNP – for me it’s ‘no, no, never, no more’ . They don’t get rewarded for being such massive arseholes. They have gone beyond any kind of redemption – they would have to restructure substantially before I’d consider them an option in any voting booth ever again. I will consider any way forward to get independence, as long as it doesn’t involve them, their lies, their deception.

      4th of November is the start of our s.30 judicial review though – Martin Keatings suggests the Lord Advocate’s team (for Scottish Parliament,,, and ministers) may open some more people’s eyes to how resistant to independence the SNP (in government) are. I don’t think I’ll get a chance to dial in unfortunately.

      The crowdjustice fund by the women & childrens group to fight back against the Scottish government for redefining ‘woman’ in legislation is near it’s target last I looked (£60000), which is good, I hope they are successful.

      Independence won’t be won in any courts though.

    176. Effijy says:

      Dear Prince William,
      Sorry to hear that you and 50 million others had
      Contracted the Covid virus.

      You need not have worried about revealing you had it
      for fear of causing great concern to the general public,
      99% of us are more troubled by our families health, job
      security and Brexit.

      Just keep your hands in the public purse and living in your freshly
      Painted Ivory Tower and you’ll be just fine.

    177. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Confused 11.00: to add to your collection, there’s a Birkies’ Linn at Millhouse, East Kilbride parish. I’m presuming it was a swimming-hole or for the local lads in its simplest meaning.

    178. Tinto Chiel says:

      Sorry, that should have been to Contrary. I suppose in the winter they might have used the linn for curling.

    179. susanXX says:

      Hear hear Effigy, I couldn’t care less whether William had covid or not. Nothing about that family interests me except their drain on the public purse.

    180. Breeks says:

      Contrary says:
      2 November, 2020 at 7:23 am

      “…Independence won’t be won in any courts though.”

      Maybe not, but Constitutional Sovereignty can, and must, be defended in a Court. At the UN most vitally, but also at the Council of Europe, so we carry the sanction Europe along with us.

      Once Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is properly respected as legal and extant, which it is, the UK’s Brexit becomes an act of Scotland’s unconstitutional and unlawful subjugation; the imposition of one nations colonial objectives upon another.

      That act of subjugation hobbles the EU, which is bound by it’s own Constitution to respect International Law and Treaties between Nations, and thus the EU could not sanction Brexit without the EU sanctioning Scotland’s unlawful subjugation. IF WE MOVE FAST,, I still believe Scotland can disrupt the UK’s orderly Brexit and throw the whole process into turmoil.

      The ONLY way out of that turmoil and purgatory, and it’s turmoil the UK cannot endure, so we will have their undivided attention, is to reconcile the log jam, the unconstitutional subjugation of Scotland; the fish bone stuck in the throat of Brexit.

      Thus, we have no Brexit conclusion indefinitely, or, a Constitutional impasse which needs to be resolved pitching the written Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland versus the unwritten Sovereign Convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. Scotland holds the winning cards in such a dispute.

      So I agree Contrary, we cannot win Independence in a Court case, but we can change the whole political landscape and ask ourselves whether we want to be Independent against a very different backdrop, whereby Scotland can veto Brexit indefinitely, or where the Treaty of Union has already collapsed because the English part of the UK proceeded to exit Europe without Scotland’s consent.

      Brexit is where Scotland wins. If we have to bulldoze the stupid SNP out of the way to do it, then crank up the Caterpillar, and let’s get started.

      Come on Joanna Cherry, are you with us or against us, because you KNOW this has to be done. Perhaps nobody is better placed to steer that ‘smart’ bulldozer with pinpoint accuracy and minimum colateral damage than you are.

      Come on Joanna. Let’s finish 2020 in style, and a right gid new year.

    181. Breeks says:

      In fact, when I think about it, IF Holyrood under Sturgeon is so absolutely determined to be the inferior of Westminster, then in Constitutional terms, where would that put a united caucas of Scottish MP’s if THEY chose to assert Brexit was unconstitutional subjugation, irrespective of what Sturgeon said?

    182. Contrary says:


      Very good points. But, you also point out the problem – the political will is not there. We should defend our right to self determination, to be independent, everywhere, at all times – not just in the courts, each and every one of us should assert it – and that does matter – you say it often enough, to enough people, it becomes normal…

      I’ve been thinking of bulldozers lately too, and I think it’s the best tool for the job here as you say Breeks. I’m fed up of the nit-picking – it would be preferable to just remove all obstacles in one go. It might leave a vacuum to be filled by more obstacles, but if we become efficient at the bulldozing, we might get the message across eventually.

    183. Republicofscotland says:

      colin @9.18am.

      Thank you for the link Colin, an interesting read, so the woke within the SNP/NEC have finally as of this month, accomplished their nefarious deeds of stacking the candidacies, with like minded folk.

    184. Daisy Walker says:

      Thanks to all who commented on the Video

      Glad you liked it.

      Will try and get more done.

      I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.

      OT Re 24/7 presence at key sites. Looks like we may go into full lock down soon – and you can bet we will if Indy looks close.

      Plan Z should be mobile. Cars going past Holyrood tooting their horns. People walking in front of it (to exercise of course) at 2 meter distance (we use this, to our advantage, so instead of the need for large numbers to look impressive, we form a 2 meter people ‘chain’. Cyclists for Yes do the same.

      And we get visible in every street, and every city and village, utilising the pedestrian crossing /lollypop demo. Pick Days of Action for this.

      Other days, pick the schools that have lost their school crossing patrol and do it there. (will need 2 people for this – to ensure no malicious complaints). Other than the Lollypop /Sign there would be no campaigning with the children… but we can speak to the parents after. Demonstrate a good example.

      Just some thoughts. Since the nights are drawing in, and lockdown may be imminent posters and billboards become much more important.

      So too there is a potential for the New Indy logo to be in a Hi Viz waistcoat item…. to wear when walking the dog.

      So what is the New Plebiscite Indy Vote Symbol going to be folks. We can’t use the YES one as that indicates a Neverendum/Neveraskem policy.

      OT Interesting the things you learn, ‘specially when folk do not remove you from their Data Base as requested….’ At the last GE 19 – the SNP campaigners did NOT gather voter ID info (about where the voter is on the YES scale). That was before lockdown/Covid. The SNP machine used to be a UK leader for gathering this type of info. Now, it appears they don’t want to know. They will not be gathering voter ID for Holyrood either, but this is more in keeping with Covid precautions.

      As I said before, campaigning now, with partial or full covid lockdown, is going to require ripping up the old methods, and creating new ones. Ones in which the Yes movement are far more inventive than the Unionists. We have an advantage folks – we really do.

      Unionists are going to have to rely on the Media (already reached saturation point) posted leaflets (boring and go in the bin) and Social Media (misses an important chunk of key voters – i.e. the elderly).

      One thing they will do is bring out the media guns against NS and co nearer the time of the HE.

      When that happens, we need to have ensured the voters understand that HE is plebiscite vote for Indy and be prepared to vote for candidates to sign up for it. At that time, – depending on polls – I would expect SNP candidates being prepared to stand down from the SNP and go for election on this issue. Their script – very sad, I never left the SNP, the SNP left me, Time to put the Country First’

      In areas with Woke Candidates for the SNP – we will need proper electable local candidates. And they will have to campaign right from about now to get voter recognition in view of Covid restrictions.

      Thats it for now folks. Cheerie.

    185. robert Hughes says:

      Fine song beautifully sung + powerful and moving accompanying video = superb piece of artistic agitprop . Well done to you both

    186. Colin Alexander says:

      This is the current SNP NEC:

      National Executive Committee

      Ian Hudghton

      Nicola Sturgeon

      Depute Leader
      Keith Brown

      National Treasurer
      Colin Beattie

      National Secretary
      Angus MacLeod

      Business Convener
      Kirsten Oswald

      Organisation Convener
      Stacy Bradley

      Local Government Convener
      Ellen Forson

      Policy Development Convener
      Alyn Smith

      Member Support Convener
      Douglas Daniel

      Women’s Convener
      Rhiannon Spear

      Equalities Convener
      Fiona Robertson

      BAME Convener
      Graham Campbell

      Disabled Members’ Convener
      Morag Fulton

      Ordinary Members (Parliamentarians)
      Tommy Sheppard
      Alison Thewliss

      Regional Members
      Lynne Anderson (Central Scotland)
      Cameron McManus (Central Scotland)
      Christina Cannon (Glasgow)
      Alexander Kerr (Glasgow)
      Laura Mitchell (Highlands & Islands)
      Munro Ross (Highlands & Islands)
      Roz Currie (Lothian)
      Andy Diack (Lothian)
      Rhuaraidh Fleming (Mid Scotland & Fife)
      Mireille Pouget (Mid Scotland & Fife)
      Christian Allard (North East Scotland)
      Dorothy Jessiman (North East Scotland)
      Heather Anderson (South Scotland)
      Rob Davidson (South Scotland)
      Emma Hendrie (West Scotland)
      Robert Innes (West Scotland)

      Representatives from the Parliamentary Groups, the Association of Nationalist Councillors and Affiliated Organisations also sit on the National Executive Committee.

    187. paul says:

      The talk of wings shuttering is deeply depressing.

      If the reverend is exhausted, I can understand.

      His output and inquiries post twitter ban have been surgically required and far more germaine.

      I think the comments have got better as well.

      To quote johnny rico:

      “We are in it for the species”

    188. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 8.09

      Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.

      I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!

      The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.

      We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.

    189. Beaker says:

      @Daisy Walker says:
      2 November, 2020 at 9:45 am
      “I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.”

      Tell them that under GDPR legislation you want your details removed within 72 hours (reasonable time) and written confirmation that this has been done, otherwise you will report them to Information Commissioner’s Office.

      That will – should – cause a rapid response. If they confirm the removal, keep the email in case you receive further comms in the future.

    190. Colin Alexander says:

      Nominees for SNP internal elections:

      According to Calton Jock, these are the nominees who are the pro-independence nominees (not Woke).

      Conferences Committee (open list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination:
      Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Corri Wilson, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Joan Hutcheson, Kenny MacLaren,
      Munro Ross, Rory Steel, Kirsteen Currie

      Conferences Committee (all female list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Corri Wilson, Delia Henry, Joan Hutcheson, Kirsteen Currie, Catriona MacDonald.

      Policy Development Committee – Outwith Scotland – Requests for Nomination:
      Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Gordon Millar

      National Secretary – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      David Henry, Kirsteen Currie.

      National Treasurer – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
      Douglas Chapman.

      President – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Craig Murray, Corri Wilson.


      BAME Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Sameeha Rehman


      Disabled Members’ Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Dylan Roberts.

      Equalities Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Lynne Anderson.


      Local Government Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Lynne Anderson,


      Member Support Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Susan Katherine Sanders.

      Policy Development Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Chris Hanlon, Graeme McCormick,

      Women’s Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
      Delia Henry, Caroline McAllister, Susan Katherine Sanders, Caroline Keenan.

      Elected Parliamentarian – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Joanna Cherry, Neale Hanvey,


      Member Conduct Committee (9 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Amanda Burgauer, , Cynthia Guthrie, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Munro Ross, Susan Katherine Sanders,
      Ellen McMaster, Caroline McAllister, Lynne Anderson, Corri Wilson.

      Appeals Committee (7 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Amanda Burgauer, Robert Thompson, Caroline McAllister.

      Mid Scotland And Fife – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
      Roger Mullin: Womens List: Allison Graham.

      West of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Chris McEleny, Brian Lawson,

      Lothians – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Catriona MacDonald, Susan Katherine Sanders, Robert de Bold, Frank Anderson.

      Central Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline:13/11/2020

      John Green


      South of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      William Mills

      Highlands and Islands – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Laura Mitchell

      North East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Dot Jessiman, Ciaran McRae, Kate Monaghan.
      South East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020

      Cynthia Guthrie, Morgan Davies

      Who are the Glasgow nominees who are indy? ( not woke).

    191. Big Jock says:

      Alf – You are absolutely correct.

      You do not appeal to the country you are trying to secede from to request their consent. Otherwise not one nation in the world would ever have done so.

      You win an election. You then tell your own people that you will carry out their mandate as requested. What the other country does is up to them.

      The mistake we are making here is allowing Westminster decide if, when and how our country will proceed. That’s not sovereignty. That’s serfdom.

    192. Colin Alexander says:

      SNP members voting guide:

      1. Go to: (and login)

      2. Click on: ELECTIONS at top of page

      3. Select: Nominations: View

      4. Click on “Nominate” beside your selections until it changes to “Remove nomination”. When it has changed from “nominate” to “remove nomination” that means you have made your nomination.

      Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.

    193. Graeme McAllan says:

      It’s got “SNAFU” written all over it 🙁

    194. Willie says:

      Good stuff Colin Alexander.

      I was just going to blog in to road map how SNP members can nominate their choices for party positions.

      Maybe Rev Stu could do a piece, if he agrees, on why Craig Murray would make an excellent SNP President. The ex diplomat – ambassador has all the skills and more and all backed up by a total commitment to democracy and fairness.

      And maybe, some of the more computer savvy members could either through targeted emails or physical instruction assist less able technophobes to vote.

      If we want to take back control, get our SNP back we all need to play our part.

    195. Ottomanboi says:

      Off topic, yet highly topical
      “Islamophobic” or is Tom Holland simply stating the facts without benefit of counterfeit tones of light and shade?
      In this, as in so many current issues, time to to call a halt to the antics of establishment kidders and their deceits.

    196. Liz says:

      Someone on twitter heard a rumour, no confirmation, or evidence, that the NEC plus Murrell will be counting the nominations.

    197. Lothianlad says:

      I kept my SNP membership so I could bite to get rid of sturgeon when the time came.
      I want to vote for craig murray but have had nothing through the post or email saying I can vote.

      Should I call HQ or will I likely be fobbed off?

    198. Lothianlad says:

      A h….. colin Alexander, I should have read you post above before my last entry.


    199. stonefree says:

      Just a couple of things
      Corri Wilson? Has she got her name up for everything?
      From memory A few on here didn’t speak highly of her,
      Plus the NA hustings,….I question Why the candidates DIDN’T go ahead? While the papers are tending to lead with the “bullying ” following the Gibson narrative only
      Has it been decided for Gibson already ? I merely ask

      Craig Murray? Up front IMO an excellent choice, as they say “a cut above the rest”
      Again if memory is correct he got scuppered by I think the NEC , and others in standing for 2015 election
      I might suggest that was very early on in the “Sturgeon Reformation” in the picking of candidates

    200. paul says:

      Alf Baird says:
      2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am

      Breeks @ 8.09

      Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.

      I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!

      The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.

      We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.

      What you say is both clarifing and worrying.

      Clarifing: Are we are union of nations or not.

      Worrying: Can we address our position lawfully if the answer is not.

      56% and rising, we can redress our position.

      Every day and every interaction should refer to margaret thatcher:

      “All they have to do is have a majority in westminster”

    201. stonefree says:

      @ Liz at 11:42 am
      Would you be surprised? Might I suggest MacCann
      @ Lothianlad at 11:52 am

      “fobbed off”

    202. Republicofscotland says:

      Craig Murray has a tread up on the machinations of Murrell, and Police Scotland and the Crown Office, and his up and coming court appearance.

    203. cirsium says:

      @Tom, 10.38am

      Thanks for the link to the article by Mandy Rhodes. “chaotic kaleidoscope of incompetence” is a good summary of the picture so far. Further digging by the Committee is required to find what lies below this surface.

    204. kapelmeister says:

      Republicofscotland @12:40

      Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.

    205. Ronald Fraser says:

      Sturgeon latest on coronavirus is that she is thinking of locking down Scotland, whether we need to it not, because England are going into lockdown and that will trigger 80% furlough.

      This furlough will only last four weeks,,,so Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer.

      Sounds crazy, but it is very real.

      Scotland has no borrowing powers, so she as to take this furlough when it is available.

      Independence would give us the powers to borrow for ourselves, but Sturgeon has avoided mentioning the I word.

      Complicated to explain this in writing,,,

      In short, we are being forced into an unnecessary lock down because England hold all the money.

    206. cirsium says:

      @Breeks, 8.09, @Alf Baird 10.32

      Yes, we have to move fast. Ms Cherry’s successful court case was won on the principles of Scots Law which is based on the sovereignty of the people. If the talk is of a gold standard, surely the gold standard is not s30 but United Nations Resolution 1514 (XV) approved 14 December 1960

      All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

      Also Article 1.2 of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.”

    207. ScottieDog says:

      @ Ronald Fraser

      Not really that complicated. Just that Scotland can’t do what’s appropriate for Scotland’s people and it’s economy whilst tethered to the U.K.
      It also drives a coach and horses through Andrew Wilson and Charlotte st partners plan to use sterling. Under that regime we still wouldn’t be able to do what was right when it was right due to having to use someone else’s currency.

    208. Ronald Fraser says:

      Scottie dog 1.26

      Yes Scottie, I think she has to get an answer later on today on whether Scotland can go in to lock down at any time of our chosing, with the assurance that the 80% furlough will be paid for by Westminster.

    209. Daisy Walker says:

      test message – my last post vanished

    210. susanXX says:

      The Scots pound is good enough for me. To hell with Sterling. Let England sink and close the border.

    211. boris says:

      kapelmeister says:
      2 November, 2020 at 1:05 pm
      Republicofscotland @12:40

      Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.

      A judge led inquiry would achieve little more. Remember Dunblane!!! Any inquiry needs to be chaired by a trusted person of authority from outwith the UK.

      The closest we got to justice is the time an investigation was led by a Canadian into the Holyrood election debacle created by Douglas Alexander and the Labour Party who tried to prevent the election of an SNP government by combining two voting systems on the same day.

    212. Ronald Fraser says:

      Susan xx 1.38

      I have the same dreams Susan.

      Don’t worry Susan, England is sinking fast.

      We need to break all ties ASAP.

    213. Lenny Hartley says:

      stonefree. The voting papers for selection of Cunninghame North Candidate will be go out in next couple Of weeks. The hustings yesterday only had one of the three candidates as the two challengers refused to share a platform with the incumbent Gibson whilst Bullying allegation Investigations against him were ongoing.
      This clusterfuck is entirely at Hq’s door who have ignored written allegations from 11 people for around 18 months. They only took action when the were shamed into by the issue being “leaked” to the press. Previously they only response from HQ as that the allegations would be looked at during candidate selection vetting. (it wasnt) Currently the situation in the Constituency is that 5 of the seven SNP Councillors in North Ayrshire and 4 of six branches are not on speaking terms with Gibson.
      This was all conveyed to HQ multiple times, the last i think being June 2019 .
      Its unlikely that these investigations will be completed until after the selection of the Candidate,
      Its not fair to any of them including Ken Gibson to have the selection done when this investigation is going on.
      Like the NEC there needs to be a clear out at HQ.

    214. Daisy Walker says:

      OT the video Graeme and I created now shows as ‘unavailable’. No idea how (fairly sure of the why and the who).

      You Tube have not notified me – which they did the day before to tell me the video was ‘age restricted’ which was ironic since I had already made it so…

      I’m full of the cold at the moment, and cannot work bloody computers on a good day.


    215. Liz says:

      No not surprised. Ever since McCann collated the votes over whether or not to block MPs, ie Joanna Cherry, from selection and collated the votes for the WC, where Spears came from behind to win, I don’t trust the counts at all.

    216. Daisy Walker says:

      Craig Murrays latest article about the Alex Salmnd stitch up is really something.

      And so far, he has not been wrong.

      Police notified SNP Highups that there was not enough evidence to charge on at least some of the complaints.

      SNP High up said, ask them what they need and we’ll get it for them…

      Two things spring to mind, firstly that the Police did not cross a line. If they had done, the first word of insufficient evidence would never have happened, and in the second, if they went on to do so, it would have been a very different trial.

    217. Stuart MacKay says:

      Colin Alenxander @11:06am

      Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.

      You should probably not do that. When you click on a button your web browser will send the request immediately. That you are not getting a response right away either means that the SNP server is slow and decrepit or is overloaded. Assuming each click toggles the state from “nominate” to “remove nomination” and back again then if you click it a lot you might end up with your nomination removed unless you wait long enough to be sure the server has recorded your choice.

    218. Stuart MacKay says:

      Imagine if you will, Mr. Murrell sitting there next to the server unplugging and plugging in the network cables over and over while laughing out loud, “Oh no, another few votes for Craig Murray, gone forever, muahahahaha!”

    219. Alf Baird says:

      cirsium @ 1.16

      Arguably the two best routes to independence (as are noted in my 2020 book ‘Doun Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence’) are:

      – the majority of Scotland’s MP’s UK withdrawal route;

      OR, if Scotland is lawfully deemed to be a territory/colony of England, the ToU a meaningless charade, and ‘Scottish sovereignty’ non existent, then proceed:

      – Via a Listing on the UN List of Colonies to be decolonized (i.e. C-24, The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples.)

      In the event of the latter judgment, which I consider highly unlikely, I would love to see the ‘proud Scots’ ‘unionists’ among us deal with the revelation that no such union exists and that Scotland is a daft wee colony ruled by England.

    220. Hatuey says:

      ” Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer… Sounds crazy, but it is very real.”

      It’s not crazy, not if you apply the right filter

      The dominant consideration and goal from the start was to harness it and use it to boost Sturgeon’s personal approval ratings. That’s what everything has been about since 2014; short-termist, opportunistic, narrow-minded, amateurish as fuck, crap.

      The corona-crisis could have been handled honestly and, without even trying, it would have been a massive boon to the argument for independence.

      Instead it’s a confused and mangled mess, the sort of mess you’d find if a fox got into a chicken coup. Except that it isn’t really confused, not if you look at it from the point of view of the fox.

      The same thing happened with Brexit; on one hand we were to wait to see what deal the UK brokered before going for a referendum, on the other we were to “STOP BREXIT”.

      On the face of it it’s confused and contradictory but it isn’t really; apply the filter – short-termist, opportunistic, approval-ratings-driven, amateurish crap – and it all makes perfect sense.

    221. Rob says:

      Can any one clear up a point. I am arging with this person on FB at the moment over the question…….Does Nicola sturgeon have any say on the appointment or reappointment of a civil servant such as Leselie Evans

    222. crazycat says:

      @ Rob at 2.25

      This is a few years old, but does answer at least the first half of your question:

    223. Breeks says:

      Alf Baird says:
      2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am

      Breeks @ 8.09

      Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.

      Well, I’d agree that she’s not going about it they way I would, but she’s the lawyer and I’m not. I like to think she’s just getting warmed up… But, I don’t know, maybe I’m too optimistic.

      However, I would also point out that in the United Kingdom Union, proving the UK Parliament is NOT sovereign is tantamount to proving that Scotland is. Or rather, affirming that Scotland’s Constitution is extant, and that Constitution makes the Scottish people sovereign. – The same ‘sovereign’ people who said No to Brexit by emphatic democratic majority in 2016.

      Both Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry have said this much, while speaking in the Westminster Chamber. So I think we have to trust they do have a grasp of the situation, but it’s now so late in the day that doing anything at this point is going to be a white knuckle ride.

      The thing is, December marks the expiry of the Transition Agreement, and that feels like a watershed change of circumstance. However, Scotland has technically been Brexited and out of Europe since Sturgeons Capitulation speech last January… So if we are intending to challenge the Constitutional legitimacy of Brexit and Scotland’s unlawful subjugation, it is already a challenge in retrospect, and this December is just December.

      But having said that, I do believe a Constitutional dispute of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty lodged before the Transition Period expires will, I think, function like a last minute reprieve for a blindfolded prisoner in front of the firing squad, because it will prevent the EU from signing off on Brexit.

      Unfortunately, there’s another niggle in my head which goes back to Article 50, and if the clock runs out to negotiate a Brexit by consensus, then exit from Europe happens by default. The Brexit firing squad might not open fire, but we’re standing on the Brexit trap door which open’s at 00.01 hrs on Jan 1st 2021.

      But don’t forget too, Joanna Cherry’s intervention which clarified that revoking Article 50 was the sovereign prerogative of the member State… So a “Sovereign” Scotland might yet, even now, have a Brexit Kill Switch. Revoke Article 50 as it pertains to Scotland…. Maybe. Maybe not. We might have lost that option back in January.

      Why, oh why, have the bloody SNP sat twidling their thumbs these past five years instead of fighting this??? Why? Why? Why? I could honestly kick Nicola Sturgeon’s arse. Fking useless.

    224. crazycat says:

      Also @ Rob at 2.25

      The section headed “Civil Service” here :

      has some more details, eg

      …The civil service is a matter reserved to the British parliament at Westminster (rather than devolved to Holyrood): Scottish Government civil servants work within the rules and customs of Her Majesty’s Civil Service, but serve the devolved administration rather than British government.

      …The permanent secretary is a member of Her Majesty’s Civil Service, and therefore takes part in the permanent secretaries management group of the Civil Service[20] and is answerable to the most senior civil servant in Britain, the Cabinet Secretary (not to be confused with Scottish Government cabinet secretaries), for his or her professional conduct. He or she remains, however, at the direction of the Scottish ministers.

      “Directorates” are the ministries of the Scottish Government. They serve to execute government policy. Unlike in the British government, cabinet secretaries, the equivalent of British government secretaries of state, do not lead the directorates, and have no direct role in their operation. Instead, the directorates are grouped together into six “Directorates General”, each run by a senior civil servant who is titled a “Director-General”. As of July 2017, there are six Directorates General…

    225. Dorothy Devine says:

      Daisy , brilliant video.

      OT I started thinking about an anthem for Scotland and wandered on to this. We learned it at school and it was really good to revisit Mireille Mathieu performed with gusto , stirring stuff.

    226. Ronald Fraser says:

      You ever get the feeling that it seems to be a few regular posters on a website called Wings Over Scotland that knows what is going on within the SNP?

      And that we are the ONLY punters that are trying to come up with answers to get us out of this fuckin mess?

      Coz I do,,,I hear not a peep from anyone else, nothing from nobody.

      Where are all these freedom fighters that were voted in at Westminster and Holyrood?

      And to think they are all due ANOTHER pay increase,,,who are the mugs here, us or them?

    227. Dorothy Devine says:

      I never get this right !

      The piece I wished to paste is La Marseillaise sung by Mireille Mathieu – who rolls a mean ‘r’!

    228. kapelmeister says:

      Ottomanboi @2:28

      Thank ewe a bundle.

    229. Rob says:

      Crazycat 2.35 Thanks for that.Seems the FM gets the final say. Ofcourse all the Nic Brigade are saying Evans’s behaviour is nothing to do with NS as she is appointed by Westminster.

    230. stonefree says:

      Lenny Hartley says:
      2 November, 2020 at 1:54 pm

      “The hustings yesterday only had one of the three candidates as the two challengers refused to share a platform with the incumbent Gibson”
      That is not how the National/Herald spun it(quelle surprise)

      “Currently the situation in the Constituency is that 5 of the seven SNP Councillors in North Ayrshire and 4 of six branches are not on speaking terms with Gibson.”

      It not changed from the “leak time” The missing 2 branches
      and People who are talking , I’d hazard a guess,at the town of Irvine and head SNP Burns as two of the four items
      What is being neglected is a possible blatant breach of Election Legalities, If I am correct that lead to some bullying complaints

    231. Beaker says:

      O/T – Blackford is in full whining mode. What the hell can he not just get straight to the point? He took over a minute to ask one bloody question.

      AS would have said the same in ten seconds.

    232. cirsium says:

      @Daisy Walker, 1.58

      YouTube and Paypal have been deplatforming sites which question the various mainstream narratives. Your video was praised over the weekend and now is not available. Is it not time to switch to BitChute?

    233. Stuart MacKay says:

      Will Nigel Farage be our saviour,

    234. Beaker says:

      @Stuart MacKay says:
      2 November, 2020 at 4:16 pm
      “Will Nigel Farage be our saviour”

      Is he emigrating? Trump might be needing a new special adviser…

      (actually I did read the article 🙂 )

    235. Alf Baird says:

      Breeks @ 2.45

      There is always the admittedly remote possibility that the SNP’s 48 courageous MP’s may be secretly planning to pull the plug on the UK union immediately after the Brexit transition period ends on 31 Dec, citing the (implemented from that date) major breaches of the ToU (e.g. esp Art VI).

      Tho A widnae haud ma braithe; if such a plan were imminent I expect it would have been leaked or discovered by agents of the ‘auld enemy’ lang afore noo. However if the SNP elite have not already thought of such an excellent plan then I would respectfully propose it to them now, FOC. We really could then have something to celebrate at New Year!

    236. frogesque says:

      O/t, keeping the YES momentum going.

      YES Stones initiative for St. Andrews Day, 30th Nov.


    237. ahundredthidiot says:

      Quite frankly I am stunned that people still think that this is about a pandemic which is killing around 0.05% of the population.

      Routine health crisis, more like.

      But then, why let a good crisis go to waste.

    238. kapelmeister says:

      Stuart MacKay @4:16

      Reform UK is a very similar party name to Change UK. And the latter venture didn’t go too well. Not that Farage worries about things like that. Deplorable though he is, he just goes after political objectives with total confidence. If only the SNP had more politicians who went after indy with such single-minded zeal.

    239. twathater says:

      @ Breeks and Alf Baird there is also the Vienna Convention On Treaties, I think 1969 article 60 onwards, which determines that if ANY partner in an equal partnership or union has evidence of underhandedness or illegality carried out against it then the aggrieved party has the right to dissolve the partnership or union , on my tablet so unable to supply link but VERY WORTHWHILE checking it out

      RE running out of time to submit a case to the ICJ or the EU Daisy Walker posted it a few times and I remember reading it somewhere else, that ANY 1 lawyer can submit a claim or case to the EU up until 31st Dec 2020 in which they have 4 years to present the case before the claim expires BUT it MUST be submitted before 31st Dec

      Are there ANY LAWYERS out there WILLING to protect their country and their fellow Scots from the abominations of WM and the current Scottish Government, IF you registered OUR claim we then have 4 years to REMOVE and REPAIR our democracy

      BAILEY I understand you have LEGAL training of some kind do you know ANYONE within the legal profession that would be willing to go down in history as the person who SAVED SCOTLAND

    240. Daisy Walker says:

      Thanks Dorothy glad you liked it.

      le Marseille is fabulous… think the French might notice it if we ‘borrowed’ it somehow.

      Anthems get picked by the people, not written to order – think, ‘you’ll never walk alone’.

      If I could I would… hey ho.

      Bit Chute – oh god. I’ve never heard of it… and I really struggle just to cope with You Tube (as folk may have noticed). Maybe later, once I’ve shaken off the lurgie.

      You Tube had changed the song’s address between yesterday and today. I’ve put todays address OT.

    241. Breeks says:

      Weirdness online tonight.

      I’ve got two mobile internet accounts; a sim only dongle for wireless Broadband attached to the PC, and a second sim only wireless Broadband Reciever providing broadband for my wifi phone and tablet. Neither are on landline because I don’t have one.

      The dongle for the PC is running fine, picking up signal, and here I am online.

      But the Mobile Broadband reciever for the wifi is telling me it’s recieving no signal from network.

      They are both from the same server, same company, and sitting side by side. How can one find the network while the other one cannot? The phone and tablet say the Server is not responding, but it’s the same server which serves the PC. I’m confused…

      Both devices have worked fine for months, but not tonight. Weird.

    242. Lenny Hartley says:

      Stonefree no the bullying allegations are all historical , nothing to do with the current selection process, should have been done and dusted over a year ago.

    243. Stuart MacKay says:

      beaker, kapelmeister

      I posted that as I remembered what Mist001 said is previous thread about how the path to independence was to enrage the English enough to be rid of us. I rained on the idea pretty hard at the time but if Farage wants to stir things up once more maybe it’s not so insane after all. It would be a very dangerous path to tread though.

      I suspect Farage thinks Trump will get back in on Wednesday and this is his attempt at dialing himself back into politics now that the Brexit thing is going to get all complicated and painful. He’ll want to put as much distance between that little adventure and his new project which will be to capitalize on all the chaos that’s coming starting on January 1st.

      That tells me that Johnson is not our hapless version of Trump and really we probably have a few more years of confusion and decay before somebody steps up and claims that they will restore order.

      For the sake of us all we need to get out of this Union now. In five years there might not even be an option.

    244. Breeks says:

      Nevermind. It’s back.

      But still kinda weird… lol

    245. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Daisy Walker says:
      2 November, 2020 at 1:58 pm

      OT the video Graeme and I created now shows as ‘unavailable’. No idea how (fairly sure of the why and the who).

      I can get it OK

      Bombing is The London Way
      •1 Nov 2020

    246. Stuart MacKay says:

      71% of people in Scotland want an end to grouse shooting.

      Are the recent polls for independence and this all a sign of a shift in the general mood. Are the SNP going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by sitting on their hands for another 5 years or are they going to read the signs and go for a plebiscitary next May.

    247. Tannadice Boy says:

      @Stuart Mackay
      You know the answer to your own question. For once look to Holyrood on Wednesday and not WM. I can’t see NS surviving the vote on releasing legal information on the AS Inquiry. It’s tantamount to a vote of no confidence. Perhaps this might cheer Stu up. It says something when our FM was outdone by a public health official today. Time for a change.
      United to stay up and Aberdeen to get third. The best we can hope to do. Let’s hope Scotland can do better.

    248. Dorothy Devine says:

      Scot , the very one thank you.

      Daisy , didn’t want to nick it just wanted something as stirring and new for an anthem for Scotland. I’m sure there is on out there in somebodies head!

    249. Ottomanboi says:

      Kapelmeister 3:10pm
      Ewe’r woolcome!

    250. sog says:

      So 71% want an end to grouse shooting.

      Meanwhile, is Benny Higgins, Executive Chairman of Buccleuch, still an adviser to ScotGov?

    251. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’ve tried to hud ma wheest but I’m not happy watching those who appear to support the radical-right, continue to suggest that prioritising public health in the face of covid-10, is somehow commensurate with fascism. The opposite is the case, so undermine support for public health ethics is actually a pretty effective way of loosing what democracy you might have. Which isn’t that much if you live in Scotland. So here’s a look at “Medicine, public health and the populist radical right”, from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine.

    252. CameronB Brodie says:

      covid-19 obvs.

    253. Beaker says:

      @Breeks says:
      2 November, 2020 at 6:19 pm
      “Nevermind. It’s back.
      But still kinda weird… lol”

      I get similar problems. I have a WiFi dongle for broadband.
      The weather might have buggered things up. For some reason when it’s windy and wet, my broadband can go to hell in a basket, but my phone signal is fine.

    254. @Dorothy Devine,

      i have the pipe music for La Marseillaise,

      fairly simple tune but maybe not the best for the pipes,

      think the singing of it ,with passion, brings out its best,

      my fourth favourite film, Casablanca, has a great version but then everything in that film is great.

    255. Marshall Adair says:

      Dorothy Devine – John Purser, the greatest authority on Scotland’s music from earliest times to (almost) the present day, said that it could only really be Freedom Come All Ye, written by Hamish Henderson. Plenty of different versions on Youtube but probably the one by the Dubliners is worth listening to first.

    256. Fireproofjim says:

      Pinch “ Ode to Joy” – guarantee immediate entry to the EU.
      But seriously it’s a great tune.

    257. Fireproofjim says:

      Anthem 2
      Most anthems are in some way in praise of ancient battles. Including the Marseillaise, God save the Queen, Flower of Scotland and many others.
      I would prefer something of the sentiment of Burns’s “ A Man’s a Man for A’ That.”

    258. Ottomanboi says:

      The tune to Auld Lang Syne could be in the running as a national anthem. It is instantly recognisable, has pleasing melodic line and if not over sentimentalised, is rousing.
      Being in the pentatonic scale it also has worldwide appeal.
      Scots ought to reclaim it from those terrible ‘old lang zyners’.

    259. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      O/T: sorry, had to post this, just went up online a couple of hours ago. One of the most, eh…unusual tributes to Big Tam you will ever see. If you have never encountered the sleazy, ribald, hilarious scatological humour of Dr Weetabix before, well…buckle up. 🙂

    260. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Wae o/t , but needs said

      There’s 4.66 billion of world population that use the internet. That’s around 4.65 more than need to be I reckon. Too many crazies on internet spreading shite to other crazies.

      Trump the no 1 of the crazies !

      Pure poison most of it .Bring back the swinging 60’s and 70’s when life was hard at times but enjoyable.

    261. Stuart MacKay says:

      Tannadice Boy

      Thanks for that. I went digging around but the pickings were pretty slim. Not even the parliament web site has a usable calendar of events. All I got for Wednesday was There are currently no events scheduled for this day. yeah, i bet that’s what you want people to think.

      Thank god for the Daily Record (did I really say that) which at least had the outline of what was planned.

      For all the silence from the Yoons I think this will be really interesting to watch. If it’s on TV I might even skive off work to watch it.

    262. willie says:

      Defence Secretary Ben Wallace told the Commons 7,500 troops have been committed to support “right across the board”, adding: “We always keep that number under review.”

      During defence questions, Tory former minister Andrew Jones asked: “Will (Mr Wallace) focus on the additional, the complementary skills that our forces can bring to combat this virus – particularly looking at the speed at which they can act and the speed at which they can be deployed?”

      And here was me thinking that doctors, nurses and other such health professionals were the ones to combat the virus.

      But maybe getting guns, getting muscle on the street, like the UK did in Northern Ireland is the way forward.

      Yes guns on the streets, that is what we need. Lets clap for the soldiers.

      Mr Wallace replied: “What we should make sure we do is always bring to bear the best of our armed forces to help wherever we can right across the board.

      “Resilience is defence’s middle name and it is that key part of our skill that we are bringing to support most of Government across the country.”

    263. @ Willie: At around 1.20pm as I was walking to work in Edinburgh today, an RAF A400M flew at low level over the Old Town. Was the army being deployed, I wonder? And why the very abnormal flight-path?

    264. Stan Broadwood says:

      AYRSHIRE ROB 10.07pm

      Or should I call you robbo.

      Or Famous15.

      Fuck off with your Squirrels.

      This is an “I utterly detest that wee bastard Nicola Sturgeon” meeting place.

      So fuck of back to what ever gutter you crawled out of in Orange County,,, numbnut.

    265. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      You just proved most of the crazies on internet shouldn’t be.

      Thanks Stanley. You get yirsel into some fine messes, don’t yi.

    266. Lenny Hartley says:

      Corri Wilson response tonangus Mcleod email yesterday. , i know Socrates was slagging her off the other day but I think she may be somebody to shake things up, she is a fighter

    267. Grey Gull says:

      Stuart MacKay @10.08
      Is this what you’re looking for

    268. Tannadice Boy says:

      Stuart Mackay
      I think it will be the NS denouement.Stu has called it out for a while. Wednesday if the Greens vote the way they say they will. Gave over the legal advice. A no confidence vote in all but name.

    269. Beaker says:

      @willie says:
      2 November, 2020 at 10:13 pm
      “And here was me thinking that doctors, nurses and other such health professionals were the ones to combat the virus.”

      Willie, the military are best placed for logistical support, as well as additional medical support. Armed Forces medical staff have the same qualifications and training as NHS staff.

      Who do you think was used for the clearup at Lockerbie and Kegworth? A lot of the same personnel were used at both locations. I know that is 100% accurate.

      The other advantage of using the military in a support role is they can be deployed very quickly.

      Armed troops are not about to be deployed on the streets ffs.

    270. Stan Broadwood says:

      Beaker 12 37am

      I think the point Willie is making is that we don’t want the English Army strutting their stuff on Scottish soil.

      Nursing is for nurses,,,end of.

    271. Hatuey says:

      Tannadice Boy: “A no confidence vote in all but name.”

      I wish it was true, squire… my suspicion/fear is that the Tories are going to drop the lying to Parliament stuff and attack her on the basis that the Court of Session trial should be have been abandoned, based on legal advice – in other words, the Tories are going to say that they wasted untold funds perusing a personal vendetta case against Salmond that was doomed to fail.

      I hope I’m wrong but if you were a Scottish Unionist or Tory, would you want to bring her down? The likelihood is that someone much more gung-ho on independence would replace her (you couldn’t hope for someone less gung-ho than Sturgeon, from a Unionist perspective). That must be a concern for the British Establishment now.

      The upshot of that is that Sturgeon is the preferred SNP leader of choice for the British State. Hardly a shock, when you think about it – she accepts without question everything they say and do.

      So, on that basis, I worry that Scottish Tories will want to weaken her without finishing her off. In their ideal scenario, she’d go into the election weakened and tainted and lose a lot of support.

      I know, I’m a miserable bastard. This is the stuff that worries me. I couldn’t handle 5 more years of her crap.

      The horror. The horror.

    272. MaggieC says:

      Re Harassment and Complaints Committee meeting today ,

      The Committee will next meet on 3 November at 10:15am, when it will take evidence from Paul Cackette, former Director of Legal Services, Scottish Government; and then from Sarah Davidson, former Director General Organisational Development and Operations, Scottish Government.

      “ From Paul Cackette’s LinkedIn page ,
      The Scottish Government
      1988 – Present32 years
      Deputy Solicitor to the Scottish Government “

      “Sarah Davidson was appointed as the first Chief Executive Officer of The Carnegie UK Trust in August 2019. Sarah’s previous role from 2014 was Director General Communities at The Scottish Government, having been an experienced civil servant since 1995, covering both policy and service delivery. Her previous roles have included Scottish Government Director of Communications; Director for Local Government and Communities and acting Director of Human Resources and Organisational Development.

      Previous experience includes Head of Cabinet Secretariat, Ministerial private secretary and a four-year secondment to the Scottish Parliament where she established the Public Audit and Finance Committees and was Director of the Holyrood Building Project Team. “

      Public papers for today’s meeting ,

    273. Willie says:

      Just read this on Craig Murray’s site.

      “The requested documentation included the messages from Peter Murrell to Sue Ruddick, Chief Operating Officer of the SNP, stating that “it was a good time to be pressurising the police” to take action against Alex Salmond, and another to get the Metropolitan Police to act because “the more fronts he is having to firefight on the better”. Incredibly, even though these messages are now firmly in the public domain, the Crown Office still refuses to release the original documents to my lawyers for use in my defence.

      Those messages are the tip of the iceberg. It is some months since I saw them, but others include a message from one of the SNP’s most senior officials in which they explain that the police were saying they did not have sufficient evidence to act on some of the complaints. There then follows a line that had me springing up from my chair when first I read it. It was to the effect that if the police would only specify what evidence they need, then they could get it for them.”


      If this is just the tip of Nicola’s iceberg this is devastating stuff. her coterie. This is the behaviour of the cartel gangs from South America. Sturgeon, her husband and the rest of the coterie need to go. They should in fact be jailed.

    274. McDuff says:

      I do wonder what is going on.
      In today’s National they have a story about Douglas Ross exclaiming the SNP are “frothing at the mouth” over independence when they are clearly doing nothing of the kind.
      And it is very strange how the unionist press are so quiet about the multitude of questionable actions and decisions taken by the SNP resulting in a growing discontent with Sturgeon’s leadership.
      It’s a gift the MSM are reluctant to unwrap for some reason.

    275. McDuff says:


    276. Contrary says:


      I should have said well before now how much I appreciate your updates and links on the harassment committee & the bits of information you give us – really useful and saves me so much time.

      I apologise for doing a copy and paste of your comment there straight into Gordon Dangerfield’s blog (I keep wanting to say Dangermouse, can’t get it out of my head) – it’s in moderation (of course), but that last link gives a good summary to date of the evidence given as well. And it’s easier for folk to find it there than here!

    277. Contrary says:



      They’re biding their time.

    278. Ottomanboi says:

      McDuff 08:19
      The image of the SNP as independence mad hound prowling and growling through the Unionist camp and gnawing at Douglas Ross would be a delightfully fearsome sight…..alas we have a rather docile all bark and no bite poochie woochie. Nice doggie.

    279. Breeks says:

      Not to be a fear monger, and preparedness goes a long way to quelling fear, but don’t be surprised if the army is put on alert footing, because with the event of Brexit, that is the reality of it, hitting the UK in January could have all manner of unpredicted repercussions… and it’s just eight weeks away.

      Panic buying, civil unrest, lockdowns and curfews, and circumstances of permanence which cannot be alleviated by negotiations. If UK lorries cannot transport goods to and from Europe, then where else can those goods come from, and how can they be brought here?

      Eight weeks away and nobody knows???

      Know what? Here’s a radical thought for you… Just suppose that Scotland DID go ahead and lodge a formal Constitutional dispute about Scotland’s unlawful subjugation, challenging the veracity of Westminster’s “unwritten convention” of Parliamentary Sovereignty, and that distinction of illegality mean the EU could not sign off of on Brexit…

      I believe there would have to be an extension of the Transition Agreement conditions, “holding pen status”, for the whole UK, while the constitutional ramifications of Scotland’s unlawful subjugation were unwound. I don’t see any other option.

      That could be a lifeline for Scotland yes, but think outside the box, because it could also be a lifeline or stay of execution for the whole UK. It would keep the lorries running through Dover.

      Sadly we have imbeciles in Downing Street, and deluded fools in Holyrood, who would probably work tirelessy at overturning the stay of execution rather than rethinking Brexit completely.

      But then again, politicians would not be running the show if Scotland’s unlawful subjugation was being determined by a court of law by Constitutional Lawyers at the UN.

      The point I’m trying to make, is that we should perhaps be reaching out to the English Civil Servants who brief the UK Government, and spawning the notion that encouraging Scotland to dispute it’s subjugation could buy the UK more vital time to find a solution, or perhaps even reverse, to the imminent cliff edge Brexit.

      It might set Scotland free, yes, but it might also prevent the societal collapse of a hungry and rioting English state that’s in open revolt.

      This constitutes a round of drinks in the Last Chance Saloon, I know. But for it even to be a chance, it cannot be left to the useless Nicola Sturgeon, who is already fixated on May next year.

      We need a fast and radical Constitutional intervention as soon as humanly possible; bypassing the political stagnation and incompetence of Holyrood and Westminster, and putting Scotland’s unlawful subjugation before the UN’s International Court of Human Rights, which deplores colonial subjugation.

      The EU cannot sign off on a Brexit that breaks International Law, and it would be forced to extend a stay of execution which could be the best all round solution for Scotland, Europe, and a recalcitrant England where confidence in a Tory Brexit is in freefall.

      Why would we NOT do this Scotland??? Why would we not at least try???

    280. Ronald Fraser says:

      Regards Douglas Ross.

      I think yesterday was a total set up in the Westminster Parliament, when he got all the glory for asking Boris if the furlough scheme will be used in Scotland at a time of our own chosing.

      I think Sturgeon was in on this little game.

      As in, “on you go Douglas, you can ask Boris this vital question AND you can take all the glory in the media reports that follow”.

      Something very strange going on here.

      Sturgeon, the Unionist media and the Scottish Tories.

      Far too cosy for my liking.

    281. ahundredthidiot says:

      Sweden have twice our population, had no lockdown, and have been experiencing single digit deaths, per day, since 18th July.

    282. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Beaker

      ‘Willie, the military are best placed for logistical support, as well as additional medical support. Armed Forces medical staff have the same qualifications and training as NHS staff.

      Who do you think was used for the clearup at Lockerbie’


      I never met a member of the services who spoke highly of the Army medical services/Doctors.

      Lockerbie – was about picking up the pieces of dead people, not providing them with medical assistance – and in many cases it was squaddies who were given the task, simply due to the vast area that needed searched.

      Scottish Food has already been earmarked for central control by WM, which will very likely involve the army.

    283. Effijy says:

      Let’s get this Sweden thing done for once and for all.

      Sweden has just about the same population as Scandinavian
      Neighbours Norway and Finland combined.

      Sweden is approaching 6,000 Covid Deaths while the combined
      Death rate of their 2 neighbours is just over 600.

      So if in your mind having no lockdown is worth a 10 fold increase
      In the death rate, I can only be grateful you are not in Bojo’s Cabinet!

    284. Bob Mack says:


      Totally correct.

    285. Grey Gull says:

      Getting ready to sit down with a coffee to watch the latest smoke and mirrors from Holyrood. If it wasn’t so early in the day I’d suggest a drinking game and we could have a shot every time we hear. “I’m sorry, I don’t remember that” or “Am I allowed to give that name?”

    286. Dan says:

      Duly noted that the Conservatives have put up their strongest big name candidate for Glasgow Southside in a serious attempt to oust Nicola Sturgeon from the constituency…

    287. Iain More says:

      ahundredthidiot says:
      3 November, 2020 at 9:07 am

      Sweden have twice our population, had no lockdown, and have been experiencing single digit deaths, per day, since 18th July.

      Aye you are well named and proving it yet again. Do you get paid to be a Yoon Cretin?

    288. Robert says:

      Anyone got a link to the Holyrood hearing which is running now?

    289. Robert graham says:

      Dan @ 10:03
      Lost for words, hard to describe the idea of putting up a large Child to look after the people and their interests Christ this definitely Hope over sensible thought and experience
      I just wonder has he actually reached the age where he is allowed to actually vote ? .

    290. Beaker says:

      Daisy Walker says:
      3 November, 2020 at 9:29 am
      “Lockerbie – was about picking up the pieces of dead people, not providing them with medical assistance – and in many cases it was squaddies who were given the task, simply due to the vast area that needed searched.”

      I was involved in the coordination of the Lockerbie and Kegworth clear ups. It was mainly RAF not Army that were used, as the RAF team were specialists in what is called “crash recovery”. It’s a complicated task and not just about recovering bodies. These guys are trained in particular roles as it can also be a dangerous job.

      I have a personal attachment to Lockerbie. One of the families wiped out on the ground were close friends of my parents. At Kegworth, it was RAF engineers who cut up the debris at significant risk to themselves. I’ve also “picked up pieces of dead people” at a crash at the airfield. I’d like to see others do this.

      I’m not getting into an argument, but the main point I was trying to make is that the military are used to support civil emergencies, more often than is reported.

    291. Robert graham says:

      EH STU
      yer websites all over the shop in the last few days , it’s ok on a laptop or PC but on the I Pad it goes all over the place page shifts to the left and magnification seems to Increase , it’s not desperate but it’s pretty annoying

    292. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Blimey, this Cackette dude is all over the place.

    293. Grey Gull says:

      What does he mean the complaints weren’t resolved? It went to court and AS was found not guilty.

    294. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Robert graham

      I get that on my IPad from time to time so it looks like it is possible Safari at fault. On saying that it is ok for me today.

    295. Breeks says:

      Ronald Fraser says:
      3 November, 2020 at 8:58 am

      Something very strange going on here.

      Sturgeon, the Unionist media and the Scottish Tories.

      Far too cosy for my liking…

      What I find truly unfathomable is someone born in Scotland, raised in Scotland, that is raised eating, drinking and breathing Scottish Independence, making a career on the back of Scottish Independence, and seeing Scotland coming within a whisker of realising Scottish Independence, is suddenly content to stab Alex Salmond in the back and throw him in the shark tank.

      And not only conspire with Scotland’s enemies to do that, but do it while allowing crass and toe-curlingly unsophisticated Trans activists to muscle-in, gatecrash the party, and hijack Scottish Independence and it’s hard won pro Independence Government, and to abuse it’s surging popularity and Scotland’s coming of age by distorting Scottish Independence as the means to promote toxic and unpopular Trans Extremist beliefs while Scottish Independence itself is thrown to the four winds.

      Is this a betrayal life-long in the planning and the making? Or some more recent and dark corruption which has chiselled away at the dream and eaten out it’s substance? Is it maybe some external corruption, like a blackmail, or some unbelievable head turning inducement? (Because it would have to be pretty damned unbelievable)

      Those are questions only Sturgeon can answer, but Scottish Independence cannot wait for her to reconcile the absurd situation she has presided over.

      How would you live yourelf as a life long believer in Scottish Independence if you realised it was your actions and leadership which blew it and threw it all away when Independence was there for the taking? Take stock Nicola Sturgeon. It’s not too late, but mighty close to it.

    296. SOG says:

      RG – Elsewhere FB seems incomplete for spells and Twitter often denies access, both can be rectified with a ‘reload’. I guess The Virus has gotten onto the internet.

    297. Craig Murray says:

      Cackette’s evidence shows the corrupt officials tried to hide the truth from the Scottish Government’s own lawyers

    298. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert graham Does that on my ipad occasionally but not on desktop, looks like an ipad/safari issue

    299. Lenny Hartley says:

      Beaker it was Army who picked up the pieces at Lockerbie, I know one and it has affected him ever since.

    300. Lochside says:

      Alf Baird at 4.20

      While the pantomime at Holyrood’s committee stutters on..we are fast running out of excuses for Sturgeon’s cabal’s paralysis in the face of the Dec. 31st deadline for ‘No Deal’ Brexit and the opportunity to dissolve the Union in the only correct legislative manner.

      Scotland’s people are sovereign, without any question. The Scottish Mps in Westminster embody that Sovereignty and have done since 1707, albeit only in practice since 2007. They have the duty to represent us and the duty to protect us. They now must do both by presenting a formal petition within that place to formally dissolve the Union based on the ‘changes in circumstances’ that the English Mps and their proxy lackeys have imposed on Scotland: Brexit; EVEL;the Internal Market Bill; The CHIS bill etc. etc…..all of which have attacked our rights as a nation and as private individuals on a discriminatory basis; and the theft of our natural resources, the oil revenues and the 6000 sq maritime miles theft and the swindling of our tax revenues to pay for English only capital projects.

      They must do that before the English neo fascist state dis-empowers them further, these Scottish Mps, from even attempting to do so post Brexit. They must do it on or as near as possible this Constitutional breach with the EU. The English Parliament in concert with Dewar, on the stroke of midnight in Parliament, moved the maritime border north to 3 x miles off St. Andrews at the same time as ‘granting’ Devolution to Scotland.
      They are capable of doing the same double dealing at the end of this year of ending our right to leave the UK.

      The Scottish MPs must do this publicly and via the Westminster theatre in order for the world to see the legitimacy of our cause. They must return and validate the dissolution of the Union by a plebiscite of the electorate, based on residency qualification only, with a minimum requirement of e.g. 5 x years. A convention of Scottish Civil Society and all parties should take place if an when the result is a ‘YES’. If a’NO’ we will be where we are going anyway…Direct Rule via the Edinburgh ‘Scottish’ Office.

      Sturgeon and her talking shop are already irrelevant..pleading for our own money to support our economy is the ultimate in degradation of the Scottish spirit. The only problem is the poodles and nodding dogs that take her lead in Westminster. Blackford, the merchant he the man to actually do this?…..has Nicola Sturgeon a secret plan similar to this, despite stalling ( with our money) attempts by ordinary Scottish citizens to push for a Referendum and continuing to obfuscate the truth of the malign attempt to jail Salmond on trumped up charges….., well, I think , unfortunately, we all know the answer to those questions.

      As we sit here..nothing is being done by our political class to protect or assert our Sovereignty, and by definition our entire way of life, our wellbeing and our children’s future. If they continue to fail us, then they must pay the political price of failure and be cast out of their positions into the ever growing population of unemployed. New people with one fixed belief, that of Scottish liberation must replace them and our struggle must begin again.

    301. Robert graham says:

      Clackettes Submission
      We approached the problem ” Alex ” the only way we could mm ok ,
      He or they, ( they so far being unnamed ) seems to have decided Alex was guilty and it guilty today beyond any doubt he is a guilty rat bag it was just exactly how to nail him to the floor that was the problem if we did this he would do that , it looks like a gamble was taken because whoever made this decision were absolutely totally sure Alex was guilty and it was the manner and how far they could go in order to completely destroy him , because that was the intention destroy him .
      When both verdicts were returned I bet you could hear wailing and gnashing of teeth ” This Wasn’t Supposed to happen he’s guilty he’s getting away with it I still believe they still don’t accept any of the verdicts ,
      Now we are getting the Coverup to protect all their exposed arses , I believe their whole defence has been rehearsed every single person involved has been coached in order to protect the people who started this whole fiasco the whole bloody shambles,
      I don’t think we need look any further than Bute House and it’s current Occupants , a very very sad state of affairs

    302. Robert says:

      “Cackette’s evidence shows the corrupt officials tried to hide the truth from the Scottish Government’s own lawyers”.

      And that the lawyers didn’t ask: “Did you follow your procedure?”

    303. Grey Gull says:

      Angela Constance’s question should have been how many lawyers were involved in this stitch up not saga.

    304. cirsium says:

      @Lochside, 11.19am
      Sturgeon’s cabal’s paralysis in the face of the Dec. 31st deadline

      It’s not paralysis, it is a deliberate lack of activity as the clock is run down.

      I agree that it is the duty of our MPs, our representatives, to take action to protect us and to assert our sovereignty, and that this action should be taken before December. I do not think that they have the smeddum to do it.

    305. Craig Murray says:

      The utterly useless Sarah Davidson was on a pay scale that STARTS at £112,000.

    306. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Craig Murray –

      These characters are just unbelievable.

      You wouldn’t send them to get a pint of milk and half a dozen rolls without writing it on a wee list.

    307. Ian Brotherhood says:

      …and they’d lose the change on the way back.

    308. Grey Gull says:

      It is like Yes Minister but not as funny. Maybe more House of Cards. Particularly, Paul Cackette who was saying things like You may infer that, I couldn’t comment.

    309. Robert says:

      I though Sarah Davidson came over well. She was brought in at the last minute to sort things out, and seems to have sorted them by telling the Perm Sec not to be silly.

      She claimed that she didn’t leave the SG to get away from this, but I do wonder.

    310. Alf Baird says:

      Craig Murray @ 12.58

      They need their £100k+ salaries for the private school fees to prepare the next generation of Scotland’s Anglophone, unionist meritocratic elite and to maintain the Cultural Division of Labour (Hechter 1998).

      Robert @ 1.38

      I think the word you are looking for may be ‘articulate’, though you should be aware of Scots being subject to cultural and linguistic imperialism and the resulting Scottish Cultural Cringe plus wider negative socio-economic and health effects.

    311. Alf Baird says:

      Robert @ 1.38

      Re ‘came over well’?

      It was notable that SD started a great many of her responses to questions with the word ‘so’. This annoying habit, which is common to a number of Holyrood witnesses, has become ubiquitous with undermining a speakers credibility. Its use implies a speaker is uncomfortable with what they are saying. It is also a plea for camaraderie in what may be a hostile environment.

      The use of ‘so’ is also a substitute for other useless terms such as ‘um’, ‘well’, or ‘you know’. In recent years use of the word ‘so’ to begin a sentence seems to have become an annoying cultural norm of middle class professionals, perhaps more especially within the public sector where meaningless waffle tends to be a more common feature of assumed articulate discourse.

    312. twathater says:

      Breeks and Alf Baird did you see my post re the Vienna Treaties and the ability to lodge a case within 4 years if so your opinions

    313. Mac says:

      The other organization you find these useless but hugely overpaid types is in the upper management of the BBC… and holy shit the money they get paid.

      Very telling that the BBC, the most eminently privatizeable of all the state assets is the one they decided to keep. They pretty much sold everything, water, the lot… but not the BBC. Oh no.

      There is a certain type they go for, for these jobs. Not the brightest but the ones most dedicated to their own success and willing to tune into the unspoken rules and enforce them with zeal. The Andrew Marr, Noam Chomsky interaction on this comes to mind…

      In the BBC though the salaries are orders of magnitude higher. The amount they pay these people, wow, the same ones who would still all be covering for Jimmy Saville were he still alive and kicking. And they would, you know it.

      The business with Assange, Salmond, the trial of Murray and the journalists, the venom of the media, the corruption of politicians, the never ending peadophillia…

      Anyone would think Evil rules us.

    314. Alf Baird says:


      Yes, you are right, the Vienna Convention has a great many relevant features which a National Party serious about independence might have been expected to pursue, and not least:

      Article 50
      Corruption of a representative of a State
      If the expression of a State’s consent to be bound by a treaty has been procured through the corruption of its representative directly or indirectly by another negotiating State, the State may invoke such corruption as invalidating its consent to be bound by the treaty.

      and, in the context of the more recent case of Brexit and specifically the likely violation of ToU Art VI:

      Article 60
      Termination or suspension of the operation of a treaty
      as a consequence of its breach
      1. A material breach of a bilateral treaty by one of the parties entitles the other to invoke the breach as a ground for terminating the treaty or suspending its operation in whole or in part.

      We really should question why the SNP majorities in Westminster and Holyrood have never bothered to terminate the Treaty. Scotland is already a sovereign power within a treaty based arrangement which it is at liberty to terminate on various grounds under international law. This is why I and others have continually suggested that the SNP majorities terminate the treaty as a lawful route to withdrawing from the UK union arrangement.

    315. Ron Maclean says:

      The Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969 entered into force 1980.

      Article 4 Non-retroactivity of the present Convention
      ‘… the Convention applies only to treaties which are concluded by States after the entry into force of the present Convention with regard to such States’.

    316. Alf Baird says:

      Ron Maclean

      “Article 4 Non-retroactivity of the present Convention
      ‘… the Convention applies only to treaties which are concluded by States after the entry into force of the present Convention with regard to such States’.”

      This would include the withdrawal agreement the UK is entering into with the EU:

      “The Brexit withdrawal agreement, officially titled Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community, is a treaty between the European Union, Euratom, and the United Kingdom, signed on 24 January 2020, setting the terms of the withdrawal of the UK from the EU and Euratom.”

    317. Ron Maclean says:

      @Alf Baird

      The Vienna Convention applies to States and parties. Scotland is not a State. The Withdrawal Agreement was agreed between the EU and the United Kingdom. I don’t see an argument for Scotland being a party to the Withdrawal Agreement except through the Treaty of Union. The Vienna Convention does not apply to the Treaty of Union. That’s probably over-simplified but it provides an excuse for inaction and I’m sure our leadership will love it.

      My answer would be to withdraw immediately from the Treaty of Union and take it from there.

    318. Alf Baird says:

      Ron Maclean

      I’m not saying either that Scotland need depend on the Vienna Convention, only that grounds given in it for treaty termination appear of some relevance. There is plenty of legal precedent relating to treaty termination. What we do know is that a) treaties are ended when they are no longer in the national interest and b) they may be ended by any signatory party.

      The UK’s EU withdrawal treaty, which goes against the stated will of Scots, the latter thus far prevented from a further referendum on the matter, does appear to be in breach of the ToU agreement (NI Backstop), which one may argue renders the ToU void.

      I agree with you that a majority of Scotland’s national representatives (MPs), who ultimately represent Scottish sovereignty, may withdraw Scotland from the ToU arrangement. That has always been well understood by the parties to the ToU.

      I think whether Scotland is deemed a ‘state’ or not may be less important than the question of who holds Scottish sovereignty, and how they might lawfully exercise it.

    319. Ron Maclean says:

      I completely agree with you. I’m trying to find the way ahead. I would far prefer to argue our case following a safe, internationally agreed, judicial procedure always in accordance with the law. When I look at the greedy, grovelling, insipid sycophants who represent our sovereignty I wonder how long it would be until the inevitable sell out. International opinion worries me because we never do anything which would jeopardise our servility.

      We have to act. Withdrawing from the Treaty of Union would be a good start.

    320. Alf Baird says:

      Ron Maclean

      The Keatings case may have been better directed at establishing if Scotland’s representatives are sovereign, rather than its focus on the question of if Scotland can hold another referendum.

      Some have noted that courts don’t readily consider hypothetical matters, which might suggest the 48 SNP MP’s may need to give notice of termination of ToU prior to any opposing action being progressed, which would then allow the matter to be tested.

    321. Ron Maclean says:

      @ Alf Baird

      I supported Martin Keatings in my small way because, uniquely, he was doing something. Once his case is decided if he asks the sovereignty question I’ll support him again.

      Withdrawal from the Treaty of Union would either be accepted or challenged. What have we got to lose after three centuries in second class.

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