I was shocked by how big the NEC is. It seems every interest group has to have representatives. The thing look unwieldy and stackable simply by the creation of new interest groups with effective common cause.
When you for good reasons decide to let different groups have access privileges you need to be aware that they can be subverted and be alive to entryism through them. The SNP seems to have sleepwalked into policy capture by a tiny minority. They need a Militant Tendency night of the long knives process to take the party back from these people.
Make no mistake when those of us in the ISP start to campaign these issues will be front and centre to justify our difference from the SNP. We want the SNP to be better, want them to abandon this focus on identity politics in place of independence. In response the tiny vocal group will cause us names. We are not afraid of this we will wear those names with pride.
Bring it on.
Dave Hansell
4 years ago
Reminds one of the computer definition of the phrase ‘out of sight, out of mind.’
Invisible idiot.
Oneliner
4 years ago
@Muscleguy
Your use of this site as a campaigning platform for the ISP is becoming a little tedious.
Effijy
4 years ago
Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
Transparency at their next branch meeting.
They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….
It just gets worse by the day!
winifred mccartney
4 years ago
Muscleguy – never a truer word spoken ‘policy captured by a tiny minority’ that is exactly what I think has happened and now its like no one will tell the king he has no clothes on.
No one would want to see any minority or trans persons bullied or harmed in any but in protecting one group we cannot endanger another.
If the gender ID was put to a referendum I have do doubt it would be roundly defeated.
Astonished
4 years ago
They are exactly a shady cabal. Who have no interest in independence.
I am glad to say I think their days are numbered. They should never be forgotten or forgiven.
Since 2014 the NEC of the SNP have not discussed independence once. That is both astonishing and telling.
Could someone from the re-sisters or women’s pledge give some indication of the anti-woke candidates for the plum jobs at NEC etc. ? Thanks. Asking for the 96% of the SNP who oppose the genderwoowoo idiocy.
Astonished
4 years ago
Oneliner @9.45am
There would be no need for ISP if you woke folk listened to science and reason. Sadly you don’t.
Take your hate filled sloganizing and……..
Stoker
4 years ago
Is that 1 or 2 cowards attempted distancing? SNP NEC = Nazis!
Some folk attempting to get the ball rolling again. Please help spread the word. link to twitter.com
I can almost hear them say something along the lines of
” I will fight to the last breath in my body to defend people’s rights(especially our own) anonymously” .
Un named cabal indeed ha ha ha ha ha.
David Caledonia
4 years ago
Mr Campbell, some time ago you did an interview with Alex Salmond, I caught it on youtube.
Do you know what his plans might be for his future in politics, or has he got no plans to return
The great Sean Connery has just died and he never got his wish to see scotland independent before he went
I am sick of it all, I intend to spend 6 months here and 6 months on my land in asia
I am in fact thinking of moving there permanently to get way from the life here as its getting worse by the day.
The site has become like groundhog day and that’s no good for anyone, writing about the same stuff day in and day out without anything worthwhile happening is pointless
There are some people on here I would not be bothered with in my normal life, they think only there opinions matter, they have a small town mentality, and ego’s bigger than their intelligence.
Anyway, my life carries on as normal, yapping and doing nothing is not my way, I have always got off my arse to better myself, us moldovians are like that, we don’t give a fecking monkeys
Aw ra best
Alf Baird
4 years ago
If you don’t know what to do then set up a committee. And if you really don’t know what to do, set up a truly massive committee, and divide it into loads of wee sub groups tasked with lots of silly meaningless things to keep them busy.
This is not what Scotland needs.
Scotland needs a new National Party with just the one policy – independence – and a leadership group comprising:
Craig Murray, Rev Stu, Alex Salmond, Kenny MacAskill, Chris McEleny, AB MacNeill, and anyone else who they consider appropriate.
This sincere and trusted independence-committed cabal should appoint all candidates to fight the May Holyrood election solely as a plebiscite on independence, and to lead any negotiation thereafter. We don’t need ‘constituency’ MSP who want to set up their own wee constituency offices and bed in for the long term. We just need enough MSP votes to end the union and start the process to rebuild Scotland and repair its culture.
Lets get independence done.
Stoker
4 years ago
At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’
I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.
Oneliner
4 years ago
@Astonished
You make some considerable assertions.
Where am I to be seen as woke?
Where am I to be seen as hate-filled?
As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.
Your inaccurate and over emotional response to my post speaks volumes.
kapelmeister
4 years ago
It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.
Stuart MacKay
4 years ago
“We’re not come shady cabal” right next to pictures of Joana Cherry – nice, negative framing The National. Seems the “Shady Cabal” is alive and kicking in the SNP House Journal.
Rick H Johnston
4 years ago
The oversized NEC needs to be reduced. Its obviously the case that turkeys don’t usually vote for an early Christmas, so they may need a push from SNP members/delegates at the conference.
Also Craig Murray’s election as SNP president – even though its not an executive position, would re-set the direction of the YES movement IMO.
Dan
4 years ago
There are so many folk putting themselves up for SNP NEC positions it’s difficult to know who they all are and their credentials.
Colin Alexander posted this list in the following comment on previous thread.
A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
We are NOT a “secret cabal” said member “A”.
This was confirmed by fellow NEC members B, C, D, E…
This reminds me of the recent court case against Alex Salmond, where all the accusers where identified by a letter of the alphabet.
Secrecy seems to be the way forward for the SNP, led by the equally secretive Mr Murrell.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
“Don’t go into something to test the waters, go into things to make waves.”
Anonymous
Oneliner
4 years ago
@Ronald Fraser
Cracking irony in the statement:
We are NOT a ‘secret cabal’ said member ”A”
Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.
kapelmeister
4 years ago
“The reality is a lot more boring”.
Yes, I’m sure autocracy isn’t as much fun as it’s cracked up to be.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
There’ll soon be more members of the NEC than there will be actual foot soldiers.
And the top table of the SNP seem to be completely oblivious to this minor matter.
(Or don’t give a flying fuck about it).
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Oneliner 10.26am
“Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.”
Interesting.
SOG
4 years ago
If I were still a member, I’d be asking Pete M the actual cost of running the NEC, in the previous financial year. I’m not sure I’d get a reply, though. But it seems a relevant question.
paul
4 years ago
Look but do not touch
Contrary
4 years ago
Haha, priceless.
Oh dear oh dear – go on then, NEC, convince us you are not a shady cabal from under cover of anonymity and not wanting to be named, no shadiness there at all: obviously we have to just have faith and believe, without question, a statement that could have been made by any random Russian bot. Not shady or cabal-like in the slightest.
Haven’t Russian bots ever heard of IRONY?
Priceless. Thick as mince.
Contrary
4 years ago
Hmm, yes, I think Stoker is right, and perhaps it might be worthwhile for everyone to check out the final comment on the last article.
Beaker
4 years ago
@kapelmeister says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am
“It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.”
Sounds like an M&S advert… or perhaps S&M would be more appropriate.
Mind you,to be fair, it seems not all NEC members are necessarily notified that meetings are taking place.
You would imagine that ordinarily you would feel something pretty shifty was taking place when you were committed .
However, maybe they have become accustomed to such behaviour.
kapelmeister
4 years ago
Beaker @11:06
By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.
Beaker
4 years ago
@kapelmeister says:
1 November, 2020 at 11:20 am
“By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.”
That has just put a most unwelcome image in my mind. And now it is in everyone else’s 🙂
More seriously, if someone will only speak anonymously, there are either NEC rules preventing disclosure, or the speaker is afraid of someone else who has far more influence.
Sharny Dubs
4 years ago
It would seem the NEC has become much like the majority of the woke “community” more akin to a high school debating club,
but, but, but, what if, or maybe (you can’t talk you don’t have the conch shell, to paraphrase Lord of the Flies, I believe)
If it’s so mundane and boring why don’t they publish the minutes of meetings in full (with names of course) or better still record them and post them on utube.
Go on bore us! I dare you!
A more worrying aspect is how did the SNP management ever let this happen? An even bigger high school debating club? Mibbie! Or is it they just don’t give a flying f#*k.
Wee Chid
4 years ago
I’m an “ordinary member” and they certainly seem like some shady cabal to me. Trying to put things right with better nominees for the NEC – although the site for voting is horrendous. Takes three or four clicks to register your nomination but it can be easily removed accidentally with one click. No submit button either and the only way you know you have registered your choice is when the button changes from nominate to “remove nomination”. If no change to the NEC then I’m giving up on them for good.
Sharny Dubs
4 years ago
Beaker @11:23.
To quote Zappa.
… eventually me and my friend sort of drifted along into S & M, I can take about an hour on the tower of power…..
Horrible image indeed
Haha
Marie Clark
4 years ago
“We’re ot some shady cabal”. Blimey, they don’t do irony do they.
Wee Chid
4 years ago
Dan says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:19 am
“A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.”
I believe there are lists of people recommended by The SN Women’s Pledge Group and also a list created, I think, by Joanna Cherry.
susanXX
4 years ago
They can say they’re not a shady cabal all they like, people see them differently and not in a good way.
It’s the Scottish way – follow the lead of the Establishment.
I am reminded of the advice given to ayoung Elder, attending his first General Assembly. He asked the Elder next to him: “What do I do? How do I vote?”
His guide pointed to the late Lord MacLeod of Iona and said: “Whatever he does, however he votes – you do likewise.”
I fear a lot of that thinking still goes on around the NEC and the Party’s high heid yins.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Message for the Rev,
I’ve sent you a message re Soapbox entry.
Be very useful / practical if you could respond in some form or another.
If Craig Murray were to be elected President of the SNP – it would shed a more high profile light on the dodgy court case they are attempting to stitch him up with.
For all the remaining SNP members out there.
Just a wee thought. Plus he’s a good un.
katherine hamilton
4 years ago
We are not a shady cabal. Hmmm. OK, I wonder who I’ll decide not to be today. Is deciding who you are “not”, the same as self-ID, where you can decide what you “are”?
Oh this is such good fun!
I have no emails from you, including in the spam filters.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
The media are addicted to fear….and our politicians just love the powerful multi-orgasms link to spiked-online.com
Politicians have always lied but now they indulge the Platonic ‘noble lie’ to keep us safe from our reckless ourselves.
Which is worse being free to be reckless or even irresponsible or that of compliantly swallowing the next dose of the lie liberally laced with mind numbing fear.
Scottish independence is about freedom. The dissemblers are taking us on a ride in the opposite direction. Quarantined in their hubris bubble they think we haven’t noticed.
Prick the bubble, prick their arrogance and conceit. They are accountable.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
“It was a day when I was preparing a speech to be delivered in praise of the Emperor: there would be a lot of lies in the speech and they would be applauded by those who knew that they were lies.”
The Confessions of St. Augustine
Breeks
4 years ago
“We’re not some shady cabal”, said an anonymous spokesman for some shady cabal.
Willie
4 years ago
Absolutely right Alf Baird, Scotland needs a National Party focussed on independence. That is what the SNP was supposed to be but sadly isn’t at the moment.
Policy capture by a minority group and a leadership opposed to independence is what has happened. Why it has happened is a matter of debate but what is for sure is that it won’t stay that way.
COVID has been a blessing for the coterie of control. There is no doubt about that and the leadership have schemed under its cover. However, the membership has now woken up to what has been going on and they are not going to wear it. And if the leadership doesn’t change that membership will move elsewhere.
A ready made National Party could be a reality quicker than you could think. Indeed with the Scottish Parliament under threat, Brexit, the U.K. Internal Market Bill and a collapsing economy, now is just about the right time to start a new party.
Indeed with the SNP leadership now at odds with the membership they fail to realise that the membership will, en masses move to another vehicle taking with them knowhow and commitment that other parties could only dream of.
A list party with big names capitalising on the public dissatisfaction would without doubt be seat winner. But so to could high profile independents targeted against sitting MSP’s who have let the side down.
The coterie of control might indeed have a lot less control than they think. Outflanked and outgunned is how it will be. They don’t have a god given monopoly. If the members and the movement shift elsewhere – as they will be if nothing changes, history will record the shabby wreckage to be similar to that of New Labour.
The next few months I think will be interesting.
The SNP leadership is now at odds with the membership. Everything has been centralised and control seized by the
Robert Hughes
4 years ago
Ottomanboi . I’ve been following Ivor Cummins’s videos for a few months now , he’s been like an oasis of calm sanity in a desert of deliberately induced hysteria , giving the lie to the insanity of continuing governmental Lockdowns and Restrictions . I’ve also appreciated the links to related articles you’ve posted here , all excellent , for which , thanks . I keep thinking eventually the general public will see through the fog of propaganda and realise what’s driving all this and what the implications are for all of us , alas, so far , the mass-hypnosis seems to still be intact
Jim Mcquire
4 years ago
The NEC needs a clear out starting with the self serving Rihannon Spear. Tommy Shepherd has been giving stories to the UNIONIST press and is the cancer within the party. Don’t fall for the court jester act, he is a nasty piece of work who does not give a shit about independence. Then Roz Currie, who is bad enough to fail vetting for her toxicity but good enough for the NEC. The YSI lot should be cast adrift too as they are a bunch of over ambitious kids who are only thinking about their own careers and do not give a shit about independence. I hope the YSI lot trying to get selected just now lose big time. We need more like Joanna Cherry who has the courage to speak out
kapelmeister
4 years ago
Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.
“Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”
Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.
Hatuey
4 years ago
The NEC only became the focus when ordinary members started questioning the leadership and policy; the emphasis on it reflects internalised strife and division caused by you-know-who.
That’s what she does. She could cause a fight in an empty NEC.
1670 A. Marvell….. The governing Cabal..are Buckingham, Lauderdale, Ashly, Orery, and Trevor. Not but the other Cabal [Arlington, Clifford, and their party] too have seemingly sometimes their Turn.
Not sure BLAOT would have caught on
CameronB Brodie
4 years ago
Contrary to the opinion that I’m simply here to troll and stroke my ego in public, I’ve actually been trying to point folks towards a scientifically, ethically, and legally informed approach to social emancipation. I would not have gone to the efforts and extent I have, if folks hadn’t expressed a need to understanding issues such as the proposed GRA amendments.
However, given folks apparently aren’t interested in learning how to defend their legal rights, there’s not much point in my trying to help. I do get triggered by those who are keen to twist reality though, so I’ll leave you with the reminder that the WOKE perspective was designed to counter neo-liberalism. So WOKE is good. The NEC does not support WOKE policy though, they support policy that is consistent with eugenics and totalitarianism.
So best of luck to all open minded and reasonable patriots out there, as you’re certainly up against it with the shower of shite that now controls the SNP, and our government’s legal practice.
lothianlad
4 years ago
It seems that Midlothian CA is a smaller vertion of the NEC.
Now that is a shady cabal!
Littered with Anti Indepedence careerists led my a very uninspiring MP and MSP, the sense of entitlement would shame the british aristocracy!
The MP lost a 10,000 Majority in 2017, then the full steam stop brexit bus ran out of fuel, so it wont be travelling on the road to Independence any time soon. Why would it? devolution has served these people well!
Scotland freedom will be the price.
How I despise these self seeking careerist politicians!
Lorna Campbell
4 years ago
O wad some powe’r the giftie gie us… They certainly appear like a shady cabal from here. They are not acting like a NEC, but like a meeting place for different lobbying groups. Lobbying interests are the real scourge of the political system these days, and the more cash washing around within these groups (e.g. the more extreme elements of the trans lobby, financed by big money – 0.3% of the population as against 51-2%) and the louder they shout, the more they are heard. It seems like they act as the conduit for policies that might not find public favour. I don’t blame people for wishing to rain anonymous because there is also a fair amount of venom washing around, too.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Stoker 10.01am
Your link to another way, needs spread far and wide,,, today,,,not tomorrow or the next day.
To fellow Restoration-era enthusiasts trying to remember who was in The Cabal (I couldn’t remember who C stood for; I thought it might be Clarendon but that’s who they replaced)-
Lucky we don’t have to identify who’s running the kingdom now based on their initials eh?
-Socrates-
I’d have thought Lord Macleod was a thorn in the side of the Kirk establishment as he devoted much of his career to fighting poverty and war? Opposed Billy Graham’s cheap hustler Christianity too?
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
We need to move fast against the so called “wise guys” running the SNP.
Their idea of holding indyRef2 sometime in the 2030s is for the birds.
Our only lines of communication with the EU are being cut at the end of this year.
After that, it’s all down hill.
Where Scotland WILL become just another Region of Northern Britain.
With the same relevance to Westminster as Greater Manchester.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
test message
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Rev,
One last time before I throw the damned computer out the window. Glitches galore today.
Graeme and I created the below. Would it be suitable for a Soapbox entry. Paticulary as we so near 11/11/20.
https://
youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
So two anonymous NEC members, claim that the NEC isn’t a shady cabal, they couldn’t have come across any shadier if they tried.
This inept statement hasn’t done a single thing to endear ordinary folk to the NEC members, if anything, its made them more suspicious of it and its members.
This is reminiscent of BBC officials coming out and claiming that the BBC seek parity when reporting on Scottish independence.
Intractable Potsherd
4 years ago
Oneliner says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am
As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.
Do you any evidence or examples of “untruths”? I haven’t seen any.
Joe
4 years ago
@ahundredthidiot
Last thread is locked so i’ll have to say this here: your post made for really great reading. Thanks for sharing
provides a link to a tweet from AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, which sounds all very nice and organised and all very grass-rootery, but when I look at the article in the National, the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters how to be properly grassroots like, in a manner in which the SNP will approve of, so as to not offend anyone, particularly our betters in Westminster.
I wonder if he plans to tell everyone to Wheesht, which is the only current SNP policy I’m aware of.
Dan
4 years ago
Has anybody tried switching Pete Wishart off and on again to see if sorts itself out.
Jim McGuire. Totally agree with you about Shepherd. He is the rot at the heart of it all. Rejected by labour and used SNP to claim what he views as his rightful place in Westminster. He has all the YSI and young Edinburgh councillors do his dirty work for him. Look at his shenanigans in Edinburgh Eastern. Trying to unseat Ash Denham by putting up the useless Kate Campbell. He went to the Times with a false story about Denham and Kate Campbell stupidly put her name to it. Tommy’s useful idiot! He is using the GRA to whip up the YSI lot against Denham who opposes it all because she does not do what he says. He promises all these YSI and young councilors seats at the big table but uses them all for his own means. He needs ousted from the NEC now. He is the cause of all the issues there.
Livionian
4 years ago
Even the worst communist regimes in history let people know who was in the politburo
Jockanese Wind Talker
4 years ago
AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, is to be addressed by Ian Blackford.
Don’t have a problem with that as long as all Blackford says says is sorry for letting Scotland get dragged out of the EU despite his promises to the contrary and then sits the fuck down and listens to the Yes Groups.
The SNP need the YES Groups (to canvas for Holyrood 2021), the YES Groups do not need the SNP.
Hopefully Blackford will be sent packing with a very loud and clear message to deliver to Bute House.
Contrary
4 years ago
Dan, that’s an interesting tweet from Pete Wishart, who uses ‘listvotesense’ as a source to support his view – who or what is this ‘listvotesense’ that has sprung up? An entire Twitter account and blog site dedicated to ‘informing’ the public about how to vote – and claiming to be the site that unionists hate – so, without bothering to read any of their articles, we jump straight to their ‘about’ page – you know, the one that tells us their background, their affiliations, and their ráison d’être :
And, yes, a somewhat bank page. In the same manner as the transparency we have come to expect,,, from the SNP. Not shady or cabal-like at all. Well, if you admire and wish to emulate the Westminster parties, you might as well go the whole hog.
Kenny J
4 years ago
Stoker says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:06 am
At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’
I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
1 November, 2020 at 3:27 am
I’m locking this thread, because I cannot tell you how fucking sick I am of the fighting here.
Cameron: TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.
Stuart. Have to say, spot-on.
I seem to remember it mentioned, by himself possibly,he had had a head, or brain injury, several years ago.
Does get a bit waring, skipping over.
Contrary
4 years ago
JWT,
Haha, yes, that would be a situation I wouldn’t have a problem with.
I doubt that would be Ian Blackford’s vision, though.
And I wonder how many Yes Groups might be reluctant to join, just from having ANY SNP involvement? I don’t think it’s a good move to invite in any SNP infiltration – it makes the ‘grassroots’ part sound like a sham.
‘Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
1 November, 2020 at 1:08 pm
“Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”
Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.’
Let’s be honest, we all knew years ago that there was an unhealthy blurring of the lines between the grassroots groups and the party. Nobody has ever really explained or understood the relationship.
If Sturgeon has done us one favour in the last 6 years, she has drawn attention to the lack of organisation and impetus the grassroots movement has, so much so that she has been able to disregard and shun it without a care.
Sturgeon wants the Indy movement to be cheerleaders and fundraisers for her and the party. Nothing more. I’m sure she’s not the only one in the SNP that wants that.
The Yes Juggernaut, as someone called it in an earlier thread, scared the life out of the British Establishment; they thought it would stall after the result of 2014, but the engine continued to roar…
That juggernaut needs a cabin and a crew to guide it. A lot of us are wondering how you exert pressure on the SNP right now, talking about new parties, NEC rules, etc., maybe the answer has been staring us all in the face.
If this was to be done rationally, the grassroots would organise through an umbrella group like AUOB, and they’d consider fielding candidates and challenging the SNP leadership when it veers from the path of independence.
Imagine all the energy of ordinary people, local groups, and the grassroots more widely, channeled positively, socially and politically, and able to concentrate its weight on specific points, raising funds, backing candidates, etc.
The independence movement needs a vehicle like that and deserves it, if only to keep the SNP good and true. It could be a massive driving force in Scotland for all sorts of good stuff, arts, politics, everything, and it needn’t be short of funds.
The SNP and others like the BBC take advantage of the fact that there’s a shortage of funds out there amongst the grassroots, allowing them to pick off people, co-opt them, play them, undermine them, etc.
Dan
4 years ago
@ Contrary at 3.13pm
It’s not the first time PW has utilised that particular account for pushing the Both Votes SNP narrative.
Jeggit tweeted this a couple of weeks back and he seems pretty sure he knows who is behind it.
You’d think an astute politician would at least begin to think about the reasons why folk are questioning or becoming despondent with the party they normally vote for and are now considering other options…
Liz
4 years ago
I like the idea of a Yes movement. The SNP are post, we need to take the reigns.
One reason thete was so much negativity towards AUOB IMO, is that it scared the shit out of the control freaks
Wee Chid
4 years ago
Contrary @2.38pm
Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be ther to put them all to sleep.
Wee Chid
4 years ago
Contrary @2.38pm
Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be there to put them all to sleep.
Ian McCubbin
4 years ago
Effijy says:
1 November, 2020 at 9:49 am
Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
Transparency at their next branch meeting.
They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….
It just gets worse by the day!
Happy to do so whenever that may be.
At present my branch secretary like me feels a virtual zoom committee meeting would attract about 3 of us, her the chair and me.
All others don’t use Internet often never mind zoom.
If we held one we would be none quorate.
But it’s on file to bring up.
????
crazycat
4 years ago
For those wanting guidance about voting for Holyrood candidates and NEC etc positions, this twitter account is helpful:
There are updates and suggestions from other tweeters, so keep checking!
For instance, today there is a tweet (link to twitter.com) from Chris McCusker, who has only just found out that he needs 100 nominations before asking members in the West of Scotland to actually vote for him. The nominations can come from anywhere.
I’m mentioning that, not just because I think Chris would be a useful addition to the NEC, but also because it applies to all the other good candidates too.
Nominate first, then vote for those who receive enough support to stand.
Wee Chid
4 years ago
Daisy Walker says:
1 November, 2020 at 11:57 am
Nominated.
Dan
4 years ago
Cheers to boris @ 12.01pm and crazycat @ 4.06pm for info on NEC candidates.
Here’s the actual tweet by Denise with names rather than the tweet account. As over time that tweet will disappear down the timeline. link to twitter.com
Ian Foulds
4 years ago
thank you Muscleguy at 9.32am
Contrary
4 years ago
Dan,
Re the dodgy ‘ listvotesense’ blog and Twitter – Thanks for the heads up, it’s kind of obvious it’s going to be an insider of some kind – I mean, how badly could you set something up so it looks like it has zero credibility? And that one of our MPs – so careful to ONLY use either MSM or establishment sources for their info normally – uses said dodgy site. So, PW knows who it is, and knows it has no credibility (and I noticed Mhairi Hunter sticking her oar in somewhere along the line of threads) – if it did, their name and interests would have been declared.
Bunch of charlatans. They are actively tried to con the voting public.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
All this “NEC” shite reminds me so much of Scottish Labour and the Labour Party as a whole.
Flash backs to the days of Lamont and Murphy, fills me with utter sickening dread that Scotland has to go through all this secrecy AGAIN.
Why do we need to try and keep the SNP sweet?
It’s like begging your torturer to stop beating you so much.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Contrary 4.31pm
I remember all sorts of dodgy Unionist sites popping up in the run up to indyRef1, aided and abetted by the bastards of BBC Scotland.
John Burgess
4 years ago
Aye, there is a list being shared with all of the suspected 5th columnists about with a few names on the NEC on it. Tommy Shepherd is at the top. No surprises there. He needs to be put out of the NEC along with Spear and all of the YSI.
crazycat
4 years ago
@ Dan at 4.23
Thank you; I posted the link to the whole account, not just the one tweet, deliberately, to encourage people to read the whole thing, because there are others joining in with their own suggestions.
Denise has pinned the tweet about MSP candidates, but as you say, the other lists will move down the line. I expect she’ll keep reposting them, though; she usually does that.
(I also think she deserves to be read more widely in general! So anything that takes people to her twitter has to be good.)
SNP members. To support office-holder nominations, log-in to http://snp.org.
Click: My Account>Elections>Nominations
Click “Nominate” for your candidates. I had to click up to 4 times before some of them registered. “Nominate” becomes “Remove Nomination” when you successfully nominate. Craig Murray for President!
Contrary
4 years ago
Hatuey,
I believe what you are talking about organising is a political party. If it’s a political party, IMO it is no longer grassroots.
I lost a fairly long comment on Friday, that was suggesting a way to organise – not the whole grassroots right enough – but pulling together some other folks’ ideas into one. Daisy’s £1 million crowdfunder; Breeks’ ideas on alternative ways of getting independence – without politicians; a few comments about people wanting to physically give signatures to a covenant; Ian Brotherhood’s willingness to make a stand. Be assured it was a great plan, and extremely well-written, but it’s lost to the ether now, and the moment has passed. It was only really to encourage debate anyway.
I don’t think the ‘grassroots’ should organise under a controlling umbrella, or have the controlling influence ‘leadership’ implies. There is a Yes Groups App is there not? That should give sufficient links for people to get ideas together and communicate with each other – if there can’t be agreement there, well, there won’t ever be agreement under any ‘leadership’ either. If that’s what people want to do though, then they should go ahead. But, I believe that, if it hasn’t happened naturally, then forcing it isn’t going to work. I’m assuming here that most Yes Groups like having their freedom and independence.
Just like the idea of AUOB – who, I’m sure, have the best of intentions – think bringing everyone together,,, then having a political representative telling them what to, is a good idea? That’s political to my mind, and is just another form of control – as soon as something becomes ‘organised’, it can be controlled. We leave ourselves vulnerable.
Having lots of disorganised groups might not be efficient, and might not get us anywhere fast, but at least we know that there isn’t one big mass of infiltration, there are still groups that can be ‘trusted’. When the right idea comes along that the majority want to get behind – then we have the winning strategy – then we have all the leadership we need. Doing everything the BritNat way has been tried, it hasn’t worked, so try something else.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
OT
I’ve been trying to submit the following to the Rev via Soapbox. But there is a computer glitch.
Can I get a little bit of feedback. See if anyone here thinks its worthy. If you like it, pass it on.
https://
youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
Made by me n Graeme. First effort. Be kind.
Contrary
4 years ago
Ronald Fraser,
Aye, tell me about it, I didn’t even spot near half of them at the time. A ‘grassroots’ group in favour of the Union certainly rang alarm bells though!
Its like the SNP are trying to do their own poor-man version, what with not having control of the BBC. Its a bit cringe-worthy, but it likely works on enough people that want to believe.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Re the Comments about Tommy Shepherd. I cannot comment about the man, as I don’t know him or his area.
What does worry me, is his experience in ‘new labour’ and that he was the first one to publicly talk about any IndyRef2 having to be shelved until after Brexit had been delivered. Wishart followed soon after. At that time, all the Yessers, and SNP members were confident and had a game plan they were following…. now gone or divided.
Contrary
4 years ago
Wee Child at 4.02pm
Heh, yeah, that’s another consideration – a strange choice of speaker if you want to inspire everyone.
Contrary
4 years ago
Daisy,
I can’t access that you tube link, if you can give me some search criteria, I’ll search for it though – I still have half an hour left of my allocated ‘avoid housework’ time, so can watch if it’s not too long.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
The You Tube site has been named (at least in the first instance) Scottish Singers and Songs
The song is called Bombing is the London Way
the link is https:// youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
And I’ve just tried it and it seems to be working. Good luck (I so hate computers).
Just voted for Craig Murray as the SNP need a plan B,C and D.
ScottieDog
4 years ago
Well done daisy walker!
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
@ ScottieDug
And Graeme without whom it would never have got done.
Breeks
4 years ago
Excellent Daisy, if excellent is the right word to use.
Can you imagine how it would feel, if those were Syrian MP’s laughing and cheering about bombing the UK, and then proceeded to level the place, houses, civic buildings, schools, hospitals, seeing all the chronology of your towns and cities blown to bits.
Ending the UK won’t end their warmongering madness, but from Independence Day forward, it will be England’s shame, no longer Scotland’s.
John Burgess
4 years ago
Shepherd needs to be put out of the NEC along with all of the YSI. He is the one who brought the Labour disease into the NEC. Total hypocrite who claims to be a socialist but is a millionaire living in a big Southside townhouse. His puppet Kate Campbell making a big issue about an MP sending her son to private school however she went too along with her Fettes educated partner (who works for Shepherd!!!). Don’t trust this mob as they are just opportunist trying to launch their careers in an SNP high tide. They are not for independence. Everyone can see through the YSI who spend more time trolling SNP MSPs and ranting about side issues than independence. Salmond would never had put up with this shite. Makes you wonder who is in charge. Keep at it Stuart. Don’t let these charlatans blow our chance of independence in exchange for their own vanity.
Hatuey
4 years ago
contrary @ 5.05 “what you are talking about organising is a political party”
No, something much bigger than that. A societal party.
There’s got to be close to a million people in Scotland who support independence. Not all of them want to engage beyond voting for the SNP, that’s fine, but a lot do.
How many other organisations can put 200 thousand people on the blustery streets of Glasgow at the drop of a hat?
Right now all that energy and good will isn’t channeled. It amounts to nothing. Everybody is too busy online trying to be A.J. Ayer or fighting some inconsequential personal battle that will ultimately satisfy nobody.
Organisation could do something about all that. Create an umbrella group, invite all the significant organisations, Common Weal, Yes Groups, Wings, Hope Over Fear, Bella, etc., and have them come up with a constitution and structure that puts power in the hands of the grassroots.
It’s easy to imagine a board of some sort that represents everybody, with say half the board elected by ordinary people (members) and the other half by the various pro-indy organisations. Since everybody would be included, everybody would matter.
Right now none of us matter, not even Wings; it’s become a sort of game of tearing at each other, Twitter bans, and one-upmanship. Stu more or less said that himself the other day.
It wouldn’t be long before an organisation like that had a lot of weight to throw around, funding arts, writers, political candidates, movie makers, you name it.
If the joining fee was as little as £10 per year, it would soon have untold funds. And for that £10 you would get a lot more than you get for the £50 or so many currently give the SNP – an organisation that is constitutionally hard-wired to fight for the Independence Movement and further the cause of Independence.
If such a group existed today, the SNP would be forced to get its act together. As it is they don’t need to even listen to us – actually it looks like they are going in the opposite direction and doing everything they can to undermine and degrade their own members, never mind the wider grassroots who have been treated with total contempt lately.
Contrary
4 years ago
Daisy Walker, that was excellent, what a lovely singing voice you have! And the line ‘ye dinnae mak yer fortune on an MPs pay’ is a really good one, catchy. The video is really well put together.
Now the critique – YouTube need you to sign in as proof of age – I assume this is because of a lot of the imagery used. Although images of dead babies gets tough messages across, it will limit your audience.
I think I was waiting for the ‘point’ in the video, after the intro of the vote in parliament and the distinction made for SNP votes, I thought there might be some other message on that point, or wanted something less subtle. That might just be me, of course, wanting more documentary narrative – the message you put across: that they make their fortune bombing children comes across clear. That a vote in parliament has consequences, more serious consequences than their braying and jeering in that place implies, is clear.
Well done to both. As a first go, it looks professional, and I would never have thought it was a first attempt.
Scott Dunnes
4 years ago
All of these NEC and YSI claiming to be grassroots! How can you be on the NEC, a post holder in the YSI or seeking nomination whilst working for a parliamentarian and claim to be grassroots! Pull down the NEC and kick out all the woke brigade and the opportunists and get in those committed to independence. Really getting sick of all this. I see a few names on this thread coming up repeatedly. There should be a list of those NOT to vote for in the NEC. Kill off their ambitions before they kill off ours.
Big Jock
4 years ago
The answer to this is simple.
If you are not a shady cabal, then stop acting like one. In other words prove is wrong.
Words are just words, your actions tell a different story. People are rightly judged by their actions.
The NECs actions are that of a control freak , obsessed with a niche pursuit of gender assignment and not independence.
I rest my case your honour. Guilty!
Robert Hughes
4 years ago
Hatuey . I really like the sound of that . I’ve long thought the reliance on established parties to achieve our goal was a possible dead-end , particularly since the ostensible Party of Independence has apparently abandoned it’s raison d’etre , or is playing such a long game the latent/frustrated energy you refer to will have dissapated , and we know the inherent problems entailed in the inevitable focus on ” Personalities ” within political parties and MSM . The main obstacle to such an approach could be one of engagement , how many would be prepared to give the necessary time and commitment ? Still think it’s an idea with great potential nonetheless
ScottieDog
4 years ago
@ Daisy Walker
Of course and well done Graeme!
Breeks
4 years ago
Contrary says:
1 November, 2020 at 2:38 pm
…. the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters…
Maybe, but I think he’d be unceremoniously boo’d off the stage if he did.
I’m not defending the man, but being purely objective, if YES can draw out those parts of the SNP who are disillusioned with Sturgeon and the Wokerati, then you’d imagine it will leave the SNP looking weak and emaciated, with Nicola and GRA scarecrows looking spent and increasingly irrelevant.
Blackford too did say the words in Westminster. Check back in Hansard, and the ultimatums are in there… They could be important further down the line. I’m very curious why both Blackford and Joanna Cherry have both made the right noises, but then pulled their punches… or maybe had them pulled.
“IF” the bulk of the SNP can be salvaged, that is probably the best result for the good of Independence, but the act of salvage will need to be pretty ruthless in getting rid of the wreckers. However, the SNP is the party of Government, with elected representatives, and with that position go certain capacities which would be very useful to maintain. For example, a new Party might be very popular in Scotland, but without any actual democratic mandate, you can bet it would be shunned by Westminster.
I’m not ruling that out by the way,… I’d be more than happy to take my chances with a Constitutional Convention drawing it’s legitimacy from Scotland’s sovereign Constitution, – but I can readily accept that might be too radical for the majority.
Graeme
4 years ago
Thanks ScottieDog
But to be fair Daisy directed it more or less from start to finish it’s her song & her vision
Ian Brotherhood
4 years ago
@Dan (1.39am, previous thread) –
Just to let you know I have been working on something very similar for several years now and Netflix are interested.
I do hope you won’t raise any awkward copyright/intellectual property objections.
well done Daisy and Graeme.Excellent video and song. Very Scottish-sounding melody and unaccompanied singer hark back to roots in the Gaelic tradition.
Dan
4 years ago
A tale of two Didos…
The first sang aboot havin’ sand in her shoes.
The second after spaffing 12,000,000,000 quids of taxpayers’ dosh on failed covid track and trace system should be wearing concrete boots!
Could anyone who is interested in the protest camp suggestion please consider joining livejournal.com
I don’t want to use this place to discuss such stuff because
1. That would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.
2. The last thing we need right now is WOS being accused of harbouring subversives and rabble-rousers.
😉
Dan
4 years ago
Knock yersel oot Ian. If I cannae get the acting gig and you make the big bucks aff it then I’ll accept a netflix login so I can watch it when it premieres.
Oh, and a couple of bouteilles of Paul Mason vino for ease of pishin’ whilst attending future lockdown garden parties. 😉
I have other script ideas if yer interested. There’s a good un’ aboot red squirrel conservation involving romance, eating, drinking, locals, with council, government and EU workers and funding (though I guess the EU aspect will need editing oot noo…)
Liking the protest ideas by the way. Just struggling for time at moment with work on hoose and tooth isssue.
Ian Brotherhood
4 years ago
@Dan –
I think you’ll like it when it is screened. Kind of Twin Peaks meets Trainspotting. The pilot episode is feature-length and the working title is ‘The Hills Have Pehs’. Could be huge.
Hope you get the choppers sorted asap – sounds nasty.
😉
crazycat
4 years ago
@ Daisy and Graeme
Well done indeed! I’ll look forward to further episodes.
Michael Laing
4 years ago
@Ian Brotherhood: just in case you’re unaware, your LiveJournal blog or individual posts can be set to be viewed by friends only. That’s another useful advantage of LJ.
Any ‘new’ group advocated in any way by Mr Blackford is doomed to failure: the man is useless and can bring nothing but derision and scorn to any movement. He is, in fact, the Yoons secret weapon in Westminster.
wull
4 years ago
Robert Bruce is supposed to have advised Scots in general (or maybe his son and eventual successor, though the future David II must have been only a toddler at the time, and would later ignore his advice) to ‘avoid pitched battles’.
Modern politics is one ongoing never-ending pitched battle, and political parties organise themselves precisely in view of fighting their opponent(s) in that way. This is one of the reasons why modern ‘party politics’, waged in contemporary talk-shop parliaments, in supposedly adversarial terms, is so dull, boring, deadening, ineffective and predictable.
Quite the turn-off for the ordinary human being. ‘Here they come again …’ With no element of surprise, as all the time-worn platitudes and sonorously silly sound-bites are trotted out yet again … and again … and again.
There is no element of surprise.
And most people simply aren’t much interested. Which often suits the purposes of the dim-wit politicians who think themselves so important and powerful, under their self-deluding illusion that the levers of power are all theirs.
When, in fact, most of the real game is being played elsewhere, without them.
Bruce was also accused of not being a gentleman. Specifically, because he did not play the game of war according to the rules of the game. He did not follow all the arcane military codes of so-called chivalry.
Aristocrat though he was, I expect the ‘no gentleman he’ accusation was justified. His ambition was not to be a gentleman but a king, and his purpose was to win. Therefore, when it suited that purpose, he used what today would be killed ‘guerrilla tactics’.
With, of course, that key element of ‘surprise’ …
And also the ability to pop up quickly, and disappear again just as quickly. Thereby giving the opponent the impression that he could strike anywhere, and at any time. Maybe making his enemies think he had far more forces than he actually had, and encouraging them to imagine that he could fight on several fronts at the same time. Which … maybe he could, and did; or maybe he couldn’t, and didn’t.
(‘Maybe aye, and maybe naw …’ to quote another Scottish player and strategist – albeit of a very different kind – who was also sometimes called a ‘king’!)
All this to say several things go together: the element of surprise … the ability to pop up everywhere … then hunker down again, only to pop up again, especially when least expected … the kind of guerrilla warfare and tactics that bewilders the enemy, and makes them wonder where the attack is going to come from next … the ability to move quickly, strike fast, inflict damage, withdraw, keep quiet for a moment, re-group, turn up again to strike home once more etc.
Doesn’t the independence movement need something like this? Translated into modern terms, of course. Sure, there can be these solidly organised political parties – also needed – but the grass-roots movement needs to be able to spring up all over the place and in different ways, at different times, and with all kinds of different people, to confuse the enemy and put them into disarray.
It can’t just be a monolith, which is so heavy that it can neither turn nor move. So committee-bound, so obvious and dull, so weighed down by so many deadening structures and heavy hands. Clanking around in the self-imposed armour that immobilises it, and makes it such a sitting target. A living movement can’t just be a monolith slugging it out with a behemoth. In round after round of ineffectual quasi-confrontation which never achieves any actual result.
OK, we need political parties etc. But we shouldn’t expect them to do it for us. Nor should we be surprised when they get infiltrated, or simply bogged down in the everyday mud. The independence movement needs people from all strata of society, whose political opinions may (and even should) be very different from each other, but all of whom are agreed on independence. This is needed even for the kind of independence we will get afterwards, if we want it to be genuinely democratic, open and adaptable and acceptable to everyone, inclusive of all.
In other words, if we want a people’s Scotland, we don’t want one political Party to control the whole thing, or the whole place, or the whole people anyway. It’s not the SNP’s cock-eyed version of Scotland that we are looking forward to, but the real Scotland. O’ a’ the airts and pairts.
The lumbering monolith that wants to control, dominate, stifle and destroy will get killed off in an independent Scotland. That’ll be the only way to prevent it from killing freedom stone dead. I think it’ll happen anyway, no matter how hard the control freaks at the top try to prevent it. What we are heading towards is Scotland re-born. That’s not going to be a still birth. If the New SNP is proving itself to be nothing more than an even worse imitation of the previous New Labour, then fine – its days are numbered.
It can’t keep its clammy dead hand on Scotland for ever, or even for long. Look at the terrain. Scotland just has too many corners. It’s too wild. The place is tailor-made for guerrilla warfare.
That should suit real Scots – of whatever stripe or origin. It’s the people – all kinds of Scottish people – that will gain Scotland’s independence. In that regard I am glad that it won’t, in the end, be achieved by the kind of people who weasle their way into political parties like the SNP, or whatever, and take charge of them. The kind of people who think they know better than everyone else, and who despise and seek simply to manipulate their own grassroots.
Away with them, such worthless people. Who have nothing to give, and nothing in them, yet they want to boss everyone else around. Filling their own inner void, their numbskull emptiness, with an illusion of power, all hot-air and self-importance.
In the end, after the initial shock, it is good that all this is being exposed. Scotland is ours, not theirs. Scotland is the people’s, no matter what kind of new-minted puffed-up birkie tries to take it over, from one generation to the next. They won’t be able to control it. They can’t win pitched battles. Just like the behemoth couldn’t beat Bruce and his guerrilla tactics.
Unlike Bruce, we’re non-violent. But we are still waging a war – albeit by non-violent means. And, like him, we’re having to wage it against enemies within, as well as enemies without. And, like him, we are determined to win, and will do so.
The enemy can’t control the terrain – too wild, too unpredictable, too many fronts at one time, too diverse (too many nooks and crannies, too many crags and waterfalls, too many mountains and lochs and great barren slopes and lush green grass, glens and escarpments and islands galore and everything you can and can’t imagine: there’s just too much of it, this diversity) – and, for all the same reasons, they can’t beat the people. They just can’t.
Sure, it’s been continually suppressed, and the crones of modernity’s current chronic ‘mono-chronia’ are doing everything they can to shut it all down again. But they can’t succeed, they just can’t. That diversity always springs back. You can’t keep the lid on it – or, rather, if and when you can, it’s only for so long, until suddenly it all boils over.
The terrain just doesn’t let you do that. It’s unquenchable, that terrain. And so, too, the people of that terrain. In the end, you can’t keep them down. Whether you’re jumped-up, self-styled so-called sophisticates in Whitehall or Westminster, or half-baked brain-dead Scottish birkies who have greased their way up to the top of the SNP gumtree, or other mini-miniscule politicians who have insincerely stuffed themselves into Holyrood seats and sinecures – no matter who you are, you just can’t!
I am beginning to see the current implosion – I should say ‘implosions’, because they are everywhere, and in all directions – as maybe the best thing possible. Isn’t the shattering of illusions – always painful at the time – also ultimately beneficial? Couldn’t it be so in this very case?
The shattering of illusions gives you a jolt into the strong fresh air of reality. The newborn babe cries and screams as it comes crashing out of its locked-down comfort zone into the real world. Yet the real world is where the babe belongs, the theatre in which to act out their existence. Maybe what is happening really is – at long last – that re-birthing of the Scottish people. A re-birthing which has so long and so often threatened, and whose moment has now come.
After what must be one of the longest gestation periods in human history. We never actually died but, for the greater part of humanity, we have been posted missing for a long time. We were presumed dead, but now we are alive.
Time to reappear, Scotland. The stage – the world stage – is waiting for us.
wull
4 years ago
Here is a correction to my previous post:
In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics'”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”
SOG
4 years ago
Daisy
It was so moving I didn’t watch all of it. I’ll be back to it later. And what a voice you have.
robert Hughes
4 years ago
Wull , a massive YES to all of that . Spot-on
stonefree
4 years ago
@ Daisy Walker at 5:11 pm
First Class
Contrary
4 years ago
Breeks,
I think I gave the wrong impression by saying ‘that man’ when talking about Ian Blackford – it was a bit derogatory, and right enough I’m not impressed by him – but I really meant that a grassroots movement shouldn’t need endorsed by any politician.
I really have lost any kind of trust in the SNP, and any group being endorsed by any of their politicians would just make me think,,, they were getting rounded up. They aren’t going to address an assembly by saying ‘we have control of you now’,,, well, I don’t think so anyway. But the whole thing is a bit too ‘establishment’, and next people will be worrying about what they say in case it’s the ‘wrong thing’ and saying things like ‘imagine what the newspapers would say’. And there we go, another lot gone down the sell-out path. We need something different, maybe lots of different things.
Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry will be up to something – they are politicians after all, so they must be. It’s most likely to do with jostling for power in the party, maybe something else, who knows. But I also noted they’ve backed off a bit.
I no longer recognise Westminster as a legitimate ruling authority in Scotland, so I don’t give a shit who they shun or don’t shun. But, yeah people. People still listen to them, and the SNP. Unfortunately you are right about the Constitutional Convention being too radical for people too. Let’s face it, eating cold pizza for breakfast is too radical for most of the people in Scotland, so we really are going to be stymied on the best ideas just by most folks’ idea of what’s ‘acceptable’.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Wull 7.47pm
“Here is a correction to my previous post:
In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics’”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”
No need wull, I fell asleep during the 6th…
Boom Boom!!!
Contrary
4 years ago
Wull (at 7.47 pm)
Well.
Absolutely spot on. And very well said.
What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.
disgusting as it was i could tell it would play well to the deluded lovers of the Great Brutish Empire,
always makes me sick when i see Benn get up in parliament espousing socialist values,
his hands are as bloody as the pilot of the war plane or pilot of the deadly drone,
anyhoo,
thought the lyrics and the singing were powerful as was the video.
wull
4 years ago
Thank you very very much, Daisy Walker, and also Graeme. For that very moving video, which is beautifully put together. A beautiful song, and beautifully sung: so very true, and so very sad. Thank you, truly.
And thank you to Scot Finlayson, for giving us the link, as posted above at 5.38. Everyone should watch and listen to this.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Graeme, We seem to be getting a few good reviews – and I mean it when I say it didn’t happen without you!
There are moves afoot.
Would you like to do a couple more? You have one song already… Welsh Sion, if you are listening We need Wales and Wales needs this next song… To the tune of ‘what a friend we have in Jesus”
What’s the point in voting Labour
Labour only will abstain
except when claiming their expenses
then these troughers known no shame
They were only flipping houses
They were only starting wars
Not a Socialist among them
Sold out for the House of Lords
===
Welsh Sion…the Scots had a very steep learning curve. If you guys can learn it quick, lighting fast quick… the old adage that the BritNats always divide and conquer, becomes their own medicine.
We’ve always told our English neighbours we can still be friends. But see when it comes to the Welsh and the Irish We are family.
Please let them know of the above video Bombing is the London Way… I am well aware that the figure 26:13 and the term Cannon Fodder, applies just as much for the Welsh and the Irish and the Geordies .
A good song has no borders, only hearts.
One bit of decency at a time folks. It has started.
What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.
Many thanks, Contrary, and thanks also to others for their comments too.
In answer to your question, I know the word ‘birkie’ only from Burns. It occurs in one of the verses of ‘A Man’s a Man for A’ That’, as follows:
Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord,
Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
He’s but a coof for a’ that:
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
His ribband, star, an’ a’ that:
The man o’ independent mind
He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.
Knowing it only from that verse, the word always had thoroughly negative connotations for me. Looking round the internet to answer your question, some dictionaries seem to make it more neutral, or even potentially positive, but I don’t know if they are right.
Someone more knowledgeable than me might put us right on that. Is it always negative, like I had presumed? Or can it sometimes be positive?
One dictionary said it meant an ‘assertive man’, which I suppose you can take negatively or positively, as you wish, depending on context.
Yet surely the best known use of the word is now in that verse from Burns, which makes it entirely negative. The kind of ‘assertion’ Burns is referring to is obviously inflated, jumped-up, unfounded pretentiousness, so nothing good about it.
Thanks to Burns, ‘birkie’ will always have that negative connotation for me.
Graeme
4 years ago
Thank you Daisy
I have a copy of the Labour song, I’ve had a listen and I have a few ideas I’ll go over them with you and see what we come up with 🙂
Ian Brotherhood
4 years ago
@Wull (7.47) –
What you’re saying there seems to be tapping into a general feeling that things are about to go fuckin pear-shaped in general.
And that’s okay.
Because in the comments on this thread alone we can see individual projects and collaborations producing results. Daisy/Graeme, others getting together over at livejournal.com. I suspect we all know other folk who are working on their own stuff, perhaps never coming near here.
Rev Stu said, just a couple of days ago, btl, that he may chuck it depending on how things pan out with the FM, the harassment inquiry etc. And that’s fair enough. It would be horrible if this place shut down but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would, however, make it quite difficult to locate each other!
So this may be a good time for all of us to consider what it is we really value in terms of shared interests, and how we can keep the ‘Wingers’ vibe going beyond the life of this place. What Daisy and Graeme have done is an example.
We can all – individually – act towards the same goal: ‘Unity chops elephants’ an aw that.
😉
wull
4 years ago
Ronald Fraser @ 8.12
I hope you enjoyed your wee nap. Sorry about the delayed effect: the sixth was quite far …
Iain Lawson
4 years ago
Sorry to disappoint but nobody is going to be reducing the size of the NEC anytime soon. I am being told all resolutions on that topic and other constitutional issues have been handed to the recently established Keith Brown enquiry which has to report before Conference 2021,
So the Woke place folk have been handed a free pass for another year at least. Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.
auld highlander
4 years ago
D & G earlier, that’s so true and well done the pair of you. I’ve sent it off to a few folks earlier tonight.
and
How refreshing to have a day without the never ending deluge of you know what. I really hope it continues.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
I said the above a wee bit before.
I rattled it off the cuff.
But I’m looking at it again with a cool head and … it is so true.
A good song knows no borders – only hearts.
… Underneath the arches,,, da da da da de da
la, la la la la……la, la la, la la
Me and Maralyne Detriech.. we knew. Us n’ Cactus;)
Alf Baird
4 years ago
birkie [?b?rk?, ?b?rk?, ?b?rk?]
n. A lively, a plucky little fellow.
pl. birkies Fine fellows, lads of parts
adj. Lively, spirited. Sharp or tart in speech.
I think you’re right. And you are certainly right about what Daisy and Graeme have done. They really could touch an awful lot of people with that, and deserves to.
I kind of work individually myself – haven’t much alternative, really (though, as well, that’s kind of my temperament too).
The important thing is not to despair. I do think something is budging all over the place. Like underwater springs suddenly appearing one after the other on the surface.
And we all know the power of water, once it gets going. True, there needs to be some channelling, but I am not too worried about it. I think what is happening underneath is a real force, and not a destructive one (except in the sense that it will destroy the Union).
So, let’s look on the bright side. At the same time, I do very much hope that Stuart Campbell will continue with this site, and with all the sterling work he puts in, to such good effect. I think Wings is hugely effective, much more than can be imagined or quantified.
That’s me done for the night. Keep up all the good work.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
@ Scott Finlayson re Mr Benn
His Faither served in the Bombers planes during ww2.
Which is why AS said his father would be birlin in his grave.
Tony Benn – the fuck ( and I say that as one who admired him!) decent, kind hearted, moral, English Nationalist, Sort of Socialist – Fuck. The best he could come up with – to soften the blow, after all the oil was found in Scottish Waters, was that there should be a National Reserve set up (mostly for England of course) to soften the blow. But when push came to shove, or just whenever they had the chance, it was ENGLAND FIRST for every one of the little English Socialist brothers in arms.
Dennis Healey – also served active service in WW2, it changed him forever. Do not underestimate them, or what they lived through. Their parents, brothers, Uncles, Aunts, and every family they ever knew – all of them lived through WW1 and that changed everything.
As they clung to the wreckage, along came Hitler… and they (Ben and Healey) saw the destruction at first hand… but not just them, The Blitz forced the nobs into the tubes along with the working class… and both the trenches and the mobile nature of WW2 forced through Meritocracy – and rubbed their damned noses in it. And Meritocracy HAD TO BE FORCED.
It took 2 WORLD WARS to shame the fuckers into understanding that an NHS was the least , the very least they deserved.
And now they want to undo that… in about 5 – 10 years.
Beaker
4 years ago
@Iain Lawson says:
1 November, 2020 at 9:25 pm
“Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.”
I think you have given someone a new soundbite.
Better than Willie Rennie’s “sharp eyed focus” or whatever it was he said this morning.
Michael Laing
4 years ago
@ wull at 9.20pm: When I was wee, an old auntie of mine from Kirkcaldy used to refer to me as a ‘wee birkie’. I always assumed it to be an affectionate term for a cheeky or boisterous child. Whatever, it was a word in common use in Fife two or three generations ago, if it isn’t now.
Masslass
4 years ago
Watching, reading and listening from USA. Thank you Wull at 7.47pm 1 Nov, and Daisy Walker for the you tube video.
I have no words other than brilliant to both of you.
“What she read, all heady books
She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.
You know, I was just looking at Nicola Sturgeon’s Twitter account. The big main photo behind her profile pic is interesting. It’s a photo of what I would assume is her personal library, probably the one she was sat in front of during that mumbling fumbling word-stumbling car crash telly interview recently. If it is, it kind of shows us a couple of things:
She wants to be taken seriously as a bibliophile and ‘deep’ thinker, and showing us this photo betrays an odd sense of insecurity in her self-presentation. Or maybe she’s just proud of her oh-so-impressive book collection.
She alphabetises her books by the author’s name.
She has several volumes by Iain Banks, Val McDermid, Ian Rankin, and Christopher Brookmyre. All Scottish authors, three of the four doing murder/crime/detective work. Judging by that and other crime volumes in her library, random other Scottish stuff like Driftnet, by Lin Anderson, she likes dark-minded things.
And also…
It’s not hugely interesting to duck and dive out of her library, judging by the titles you can make out. Certainly has eclectic tastes, but who knows if that’s all her stuff, or something she had partly put together by some window-dresser? Ho-hum.
Confess, on a different note, that I am finding the state of Scottish politics, and the covid-coughing, coffin-counting country in general, to be pretty depressing. Might take a break for a while. Holding in the existential scream mourning, noon, and nightmare is getting to be pretty damned tiring.
Watched the Hunter S Thompson documentary Freak Power last night. Superb, if anybody’s interested.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Re birkie.. just a thought..
The English like to poetic like describe their men folk as ‘like an Oak’.
Burns aft wrote about the Birks (Silver Birch).
My guess would be ‘birkies’ refers to an upright, young ‘tree’ of a fellow, fine, bright and shiny.
An siller birkies are a slimmer tree (even at maturity) than oaks. Could it be its sort of a description of ‘bright, shiney, young things’ taking the floor.
In this day and age I think we’d call them ‘woke’.
Michael Laing
4 years ago
@ Daisy Walker: I went to post the following comment on YouTube, but can’t without creating a ‘channel’, which I’ve no desire to do. My comment was, “Very moving and well done. It certainly puts things in perspective and shows Westminster for what it is.”
I’m not sure how much more misery people can take with things being as they are at present, but I think your video deserves to be seen far and wide.
ElGordo
4 years ago
Just had the opportunity to have a quick look at a draft copy of the SNP 2021 election manifesto.
Without giving too much away.. it’s just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right.
Brian Doonthetoon
4 years ago
The ‘Dictionary of the Scots Language’ offers the following at:-
1. n.
(1) An active, smart, lively fellow, gen. young.
(2) A conceited fellow.
(3) (See quot.) Edb.3 1929; Edb.1 1934:
Birkie, a sharp-tongued, quick-tempered person (usually a woman). Sometimes used facetiously to a lively child. [Prob. connected with Birk, v.1, to give a tart answer.]
I’m only the messenger…
Ian Brotherhood
4 years ago
@BDTT, Daisy et al –
I’m wondering if Burns was mibbe using it as an equivalent to our ‘bawbag’?
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
@ Michael – Thank you.
Its the first time I’ve done YT. I’ve set it so no one can comment. The theory is if folk like it they will thumbs up and share.. and if they are Unionist trolls, they will not get a forum.
No intention to be rude, just realistic. Really glad you, and the other have, liked it.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
@ Brian
Bawbag. I’m thinking Burns would have relished that word for its own worth.
Maybe straying into the territory. Who knows.
Dan
4 years ago
Well the Birks of Aberfeldy relates to the silver birches growing up the glen, and not the eejits in the toon…
Alf Baird
4 years ago
ElGordo
‘SNP 2021 election manifesto’
More oppressive law to oppress ordinary folks?
More budget for COPFS and the polis?
More meaningless pleading for a S.30?
More state funded ‘jobs’ for the woke folk?
msdidi
4 years ago
From the glossary in The Complete Illustrated Poems, Songs and Ballads of Robert Burns
birkie – a lively, young, forward fellow.
Daisy Walker – love your song/video – I shared it on Facebook page and someone else has posted it on the SNP Members for Independence page.
Haha, thanks for all the answers on the meaning of birkies, I think I’m getting a good rounded idea of how the word can be used – I’d have said birches if it wasn’t for the context – a conceited fellow would seem like Burns’ use – and close to Wull’s. And I like the idea of young birch giving the idea of the ‘active, lively young fellow’.
‘Ye wee besom’ (pronounced bizzum of course) was what I was called when young – a pest, or a brush. Go figure, words eh!
ElGordo – did you take a sneaky photo of that draft referendum so we could all observe the unlikely nature of the draft referendum bill ever being used?
Effijy
4 years ago
The English and their media just don’t get it and never will.
Watched the pride of Britain Awards on TV.
Lots of courageous kids doing the most selfless things
to help those I need and one incredible young girl who
Feeds the parents of hospitalised children struggling
with food costs away from home received her award fittingly
From footballer Marcus Rashford who fought for free meals
For deprived school kids.
Quite rightly Marcus was given an award too.
Who could be on next, Boris the bastard and his latest barer of
Offspring? Boris the man who is stopping the fee meals for deprived kids
and putting VAT back on all purchases of PPE kit.
Boris had the nerve to thank the NHS workers who he gave a 15% pay cut
By capping their salary for several years, stopped their training bursaries,
and cut their number by charging and repelling foreign NHS doctors and nurses.
I didn’t see 100% of the show but it looked like all recipients where English?
Well Britain is the other name for England and local colonies.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
The BBC News bulletins, where you get news updates from England and in any other country in the world, every minute of the day.
(except if you live in Scotland, Wales or N Ireland).
And just to add Insult to injury, Scottish, Welsh and N Irish residents get sent to jail for refusing to pay the BBC to NOT broadcast a single word about their Nation over a 24 hour period,
And I mean not broadcast a single statement about any those three Nations, yet they still want you to pay the bastards.
Where else in the world does this happen?
ElGordo
4 years ago
@Alf Baird
It’s astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it toll.
holymacmoses
4 years ago
WhoRattledYourCage says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:09 pm
“What she read, all heady books
She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.
………
Don’t go for too long Mr Rattler – I enjoy reading you
bittie45
4 years ago
Daisy Walker at 5:33.
Beautiful voice. Sad and powerful song. Brings home what Westminster is really about.
The sooner we’re out of this murderous union, the better.
James
4 years ago
Excellent effort, Daisy.
Don’t forget the ‘Ding Dong Dollar’, excellent song, reminds us that Trident is an excellent independence winner!
Beaker
4 years ago
@Ronald Fraser says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:51 pm
“Tomorrow’s National twitter pages:-”
The article on Swinney caught my eye. I’m tempted to bet Scotland will be put into lockdown next week. Or will that be Tier 4? Fuck knows I’ve given up trying to fathom what is what. Just tell us what we can or cannot do.
He said: “Blair attacked the anti-Israelism that had existed in the Labour Party.” Blair told Levy, “I am absolutely determined that we must not go into the next election financially dependent on the trade unions.”
The trade off was to embrace “Zionism” which became the pervasive mantra of “New Labour”. The Labour Party became financially dependent on donors with strong views on Israel.
Lord Levy is estimated to have raised over £15m for the Labour Party and Blair before the “cash for peerages” ended Levy’s illegal fundraising in the summer of 2006.
@ Graeme, Daisy and bittie45: excellent piece of work and performance, thank you, Graeme and Daisy, and a good idea to post it so no trolling is possible. And many thanks bittie45 for giving an easy link for non-techs like me!
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Beaker 12.21am
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
Beaker
4 years ago
@Ronald Fraser says:
2 November, 2020 at 12:47 am
Beaker 12.21am
“Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!”
As the actress said to the bishop, ‘Oh yes…’ 🙂
twathater
4 years ago
THANK YOU Graeme, Daisy and Wull you all are part of the reason why people come to Stu’s site, the education , empathy , compassion and the TRUTH, no matter how many times people denigrate , abuse and castigate Stu’s language or abrasive manner one thing he cannot be criticised for is the truth and facts of his journalism
Compare and contrast the daily excretions taking place re our independence party and their minions , then ask yourself do we really, really want these imbecilic woke parasites being placed in OUR government to determine our and our countries future
SNP members MUST MAKE A STAND and ensure that these self serving parasites are NOT chosen at selection to enable their party to regroup and renew their obligation to independence, for I for one will not vote for this RABBLE
Melvin
4 years ago
It’s heartening to see that we have SNP NEC members soo dedicated to independence that they hide there names. What a bunch of idiots and saferoom dopes. Unbelievable NEC what a joke either stands up and be counted or drop out for someone with real passion an Dedication.
Yes I am an SNP Menber
Hatuey
4 years ago
Big week ahead with Brexit, the US election, Covid stuff, etc…. time to revert to the usual gallows humour as a way of coping with being helpless spectators on matters that massively impact our lives. The usual.
The charade of pretending to be in control when it comes to covid-19 has caught up with ‘us’ it seems. They’re talking about denying us the cash we needs to keep the charade going. But even if we are forced to join England and do lockdown on their terms, the fake lockdown measures we have in place are showing no sign of working anyway.
It’s the usual lose-lose situation for us, no matter what, just as it has been on Brexit and everything else since 2014.
There’s a formula in all this that you can use to predict outcomes with. It’s easy. In any given situation, all you need to do is imagine the shittiest outcome possible for Scotland and that’s invariably the one that the SNP will secure.
“But look at the polls… what about the polls?”
You know what they’ll say if they win the election next year? They’ll say it proves people want GRA and the Hate Crime Bill. And they’ll say it means people loved the Section 30 strategy.
See how it works? Lose-Lose every time – even when your team wins.
A Person
4 years ago
-Daisy Walker-
Your video is very true. It is foreign policy which is Westminster’s real sin. The fact they think they have the right to bomb and kill whoever they like. Truly evil people. Good on you.
-Hatuey-
Keep your chin up, what goes up, must come down, and what goes around does eventually come around.
Contrary
4 years ago
Aye, Hatuey,
It’s grim. It looks bleak. It’s best not too think too hard about about it except for any fight-back strategies. You shouldn’t be thinking these things at 4am, not good for a restful sleep (depends where you are in the world of course!).
As for the SNP – for me it’s ‘no, no, never, no more’ . They don’t get rewarded for being such massive arseholes. They have gone beyond any kind of redemption – they would have to restructure substantially before I’d consider them an option in any voting booth ever again. I will consider any way forward to get independence, as long as it doesn’t involve them, their lies, their deception.
4th of November is the start of our s.30 judicial review though – Martin Keatings suggests the Lord Advocate’s team (for Scottish Parliament,,, and ministers) may open some more people’s eyes to how resistant to independence the SNP (in government) are. I don’t think I’ll get a chance to dial in unfortunately.
The crowdjustice fund by the women & childrens group to fight back against the Scottish government for redefining ‘woman’ in legislation is near it’s target last I looked (£60000), which is good, I hope they are successful.
Independence won’t be won in any courts though.
Effijy
4 years ago
Dear Prince William,
Sorry to hear that you and 50 million others had
Contracted the Covid virus.
You need not have worried about revealing you had it
for fear of causing great concern to the general public,
99% of us are more troubled by our families health, job
security and Brexit.
Just keep your hands in the public purse and living in your freshly
Painted Ivory Tower and you’ll be just fine.
Tinto Chiel
4 years ago
@Confused 11.00: to add to your collection, there’s a Birkies’ Linn at Millhouse, East Kilbride parish. I’m presuming it was a swimming-hole or for the local lads in its simplest meaning.
Tinto Chiel
4 years ago
Sorry, that should have been to Contrary. I suppose in the winter they might have used the linn for curling.
susanXX
4 years ago
Hear hear Effigy, I couldn’t care less whether William had covid or not. Nothing about that family interests me except their drain on the public purse.
Breeks
4 years ago
Contrary says:
2 November, 2020 at 7:23 am
“…Independence won’t be won in any courts though.”
Maybe not, but Constitutional Sovereignty can, and must, be defended in a Court. At the UN most vitally, but also at the Council of Europe, so we carry the sanction Europe along with us.
Once Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is properly respected as legal and extant, which it is, the UK’s Brexit becomes an act of Scotland’s unconstitutional and unlawful subjugation; the imposition of one nations colonial objectives upon another.
That act of subjugation hobbles the EU, which is bound by it’s own Constitution to respect International Law and Treaties between Nations, and thus the EU could not sanction Brexit without the EU sanctioning Scotland’s unlawful subjugation. IF WE MOVE FAST,, I still believe Scotland can disrupt the UK’s orderly Brexit and throw the whole process into turmoil.
The ONLY way out of that turmoil and purgatory, and it’s turmoil the UK cannot endure, so we will have their undivided attention, is to reconcile the log jam, the unconstitutional subjugation of Scotland; the fish bone stuck in the throat of Brexit.
Thus, we have no Brexit conclusion indefinitely, or, a Constitutional impasse which needs to be resolved pitching the written Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland versus the unwritten Sovereign Convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. Scotland holds the winning cards in such a dispute.
So I agree Contrary, we cannot win Independence in a Court case, but we can change the whole political landscape and ask ourselves whether we want to be Independent against a very different backdrop, whereby Scotland can veto Brexit indefinitely, or where the Treaty of Union has already collapsed because the English part of the UK proceeded to exit Europe without Scotland’s consent.
Brexit is where Scotland wins. If we have to bulldoze the stupid SNP out of the way to do it, then crank up the Caterpillar, and let’s get started.
Come on Joanna Cherry, are you with us or against us, because you KNOW this has to be done. Perhaps nobody is better placed to steer that ‘smart’ bulldozer with pinpoint accuracy and minimum colateral damage than you are.
Come on Joanna. Let’s finish 2020 in style, and a right gid new year.
Breeks
4 years ago
In fact, when I think about it, IF Holyrood under Sturgeon is so absolutely determined to be the inferior of Westminster, then in Constitutional terms, where would that put a united caucas of Scottish MP’s if THEY chose to assert Brexit was unconstitutional subjugation, irrespective of what Sturgeon said?
Contrary
4 years ago
Breeks,
Very good points. But, you also point out the problem – the political will is not there. We should defend our right to self determination, to be independent, everywhere, at all times – not just in the courts, each and every one of us should assert it – and that does matter – you say it often enough, to enough people, it becomes normal…
I’ve been thinking of bulldozers lately too, and I think it’s the best tool for the job here as you say Breeks. I’m fed up of the nit-picking – it would be preferable to just remove all obstacles in one go. It might leave a vacuum to be filled by more obstacles, but if we become efficient at the bulldozing, we might get the message across eventually.
Thank you for the link Colin, an interesting read, so the woke within the SNP/NEC have finally as of this month, accomplished their nefarious deeds of stacking the candidacies, with like minded folk.
I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.
OT Re 24/7 presence at key sites. Looks like we may go into full lock down soon – and you can bet we will if Indy looks close.
Plan Z should be mobile. Cars going past Holyrood tooting their horns. People walking in front of it (to exercise of course) at 2 meter distance (we use this, to our advantage, so instead of the need for large numbers to look impressive, we form a 2 meter people ‘chain’. Cyclists for Yes do the same.
And we get visible in every street, and every city and village, utilising the pedestrian crossing /lollypop demo. Pick Days of Action for this.
Other days, pick the schools that have lost their school crossing patrol and do it there. (will need 2 people for this – to ensure no malicious complaints). Other than the Lollypop /Sign there would be no campaigning with the children… but we can speak to the parents after. Demonstrate a good example.
Just some thoughts. Since the nights are drawing in, and lockdown may be imminent posters and billboards become much more important.
So too there is a potential for the New Indy logo to be in a Hi Viz waistcoat item…. to wear when walking the dog.
So what is the New Plebiscite Indy Vote Symbol going to be folks. We can’t use the YES one as that indicates a Neverendum/Neveraskem policy.
OT Interesting the things you learn, ‘specially when folk do not remove you from their Data Base as requested….’ At the last GE 19 – the SNP campaigners did NOT gather voter ID info (about where the voter is on the YES scale). That was before lockdown/Covid. The SNP machine used to be a UK leader for gathering this type of info. Now, it appears they don’t want to know. They will not be gathering voter ID for Holyrood either, but this is more in keeping with Covid precautions.
As I said before, campaigning now, with partial or full covid lockdown, is going to require ripping up the old methods, and creating new ones. Ones in which the Yes movement are far more inventive than the Unionists. We have an advantage folks – we really do.
Unionists are going to have to rely on the Media (already reached saturation point) posted leaflets (boring and go in the bin) and Social Media (misses an important chunk of key voters – i.e. the elderly).
One thing they will do is bring out the media guns against NS and co nearer the time of the HE.
When that happens, we need to have ensured the voters understand that HE is plebiscite vote for Indy and be prepared to vote for candidates to sign up for it. At that time, – depending on polls – I would expect SNP candidates being prepared to stand down from the SNP and go for election on this issue. Their script – very sad, I never left the SNP, the SNP left me, Time to put the Country First’
In areas with Woke Candidates for the SNP – we will need proper electable local candidates. And they will have to campaign right from about now to get voter recognition in view of Covid restrictions.
Thats it for now folks. Cheerie.
robert Hughes
4 years ago
Fine song beautifully sung + powerful and moving accompanying video = superb piece of artistic agitprop . Well done to you both
Colin Alexander
4 years ago
This is the current SNP NEC:
National Executive Committee
President
Ian Hudghton
Leader
Nicola Sturgeon
Depute Leader
Keith Brown
National Treasurer
Colin Beattie
National Secretary
Angus MacLeod
Business Convener
Kirsten Oswald
Organisation Convener
Stacy Bradley
Local Government Convener
Ellen Forson
Policy Development Convener
Alyn Smith
Member Support Convener
Douglas Daniel
Women’s Convener
Rhiannon Spear
Equalities Convener
Fiona Robertson
BAME Convener
Graham Campbell
Disabled Members’ Convener
Morag Fulton
Ordinary Members (Parliamentarians)
Tommy Sheppard
Alison Thewliss
Regional Members
Lynne Anderson (Central Scotland)
Cameron McManus (Central Scotland)
Christina Cannon (Glasgow)
Alexander Kerr (Glasgow)
Laura Mitchell (Highlands & Islands)
Munro Ross (Highlands & Islands)
Roz Currie (Lothian)
Andy Diack (Lothian)
Rhuaraidh Fleming (Mid Scotland & Fife)
Mireille Pouget (Mid Scotland & Fife)
Christian Allard (North East Scotland)
Dorothy Jessiman (North East Scotland)
Heather Anderson (South Scotland)
Rob Davidson (South Scotland)
Emma Hendrie (West Scotland)
Robert Innes (West Scotland)
Representatives from the Parliamentary Groups, the Association of Nationalist Councillors and Affiliated Organisations also sit on the National Executive Committee.
paul
4 years ago
The talk of wings shuttering is deeply depressing.
If the reverend is exhausted, I can understand.
His output and inquiries post twitter ban have been surgically required and far more germaine.
I think the comments have got better as well.
To quote johnny rico:
“We are in it for the species”
Alf Baird
4 years ago
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!
The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.
We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.
@Daisy Walker says:
2 November, 2020 at 9:45 am
“I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.”
Tell them that under GDPR legislation you want your details removed within 72 hours (reasonable time) and written confirmation that this has been done, otherwise you will report them to Information Commissioner’s Office.
That will – should – cause a rapid response. If they confirm the removal, keep the email in case you receive further comms in the future.
Colin Alexander
4 years ago
Nominees for SNP internal elections:
According to Calton Jock, these are the nominees who are the pro-independence nominees (not Woke).
Conferences Committee (open list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination:
Deadline: 13/11/2020
Corri Wilson, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Joan Hutcheson, Kenny MacLaren,
Munro Ross, Rory Steel, Kirsteen Currie
————————————————————————————–
Conferences Committee (all female list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Policy Development Committee – Outwith Scotland – Requests for Nomination:
Deadline: 13/11/2020
Gordon Millar
—————————————————————————————–
National Secretary – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
David Henry, Kirsteen Currie.
——————————————————————————————-
National Treasurer – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Douglas Chapman.
———————————————————————————————
President – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Craig Murray, Corri Wilson.
———————————————————————————————–
BAME Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Sameeha Rehman
———————————————————————————————–
Disabled Members’ Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Dylan Roberts.
————————————————————————————————
Equalities Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Lynne Anderson.
————————————————————————————————
Local Government Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Lynne Anderson,
———————————————————————————————–
Member Support Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Susan Katherine Sanders.
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Policy Development Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Chris Hanlon, Graeme McCormick,
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Women’s Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Delia Henry, Caroline McAllister, Susan Katherine Sanders, Caroline Keenan.
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Elected Parliamentarian – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Joanna Cherry, Neale Hanvey,
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Member Conduct Committee (9 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Amanda Burgauer, , Cynthia Guthrie, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Munro Ross, Susan Katherine Sanders,
Ellen McMaster, Caroline McAllister, Lynne Anderson, Corri Wilson.
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Appeals Committee (7 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Amanda Burgauer, Robert Thompson, Caroline McAllister.
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Mid Scotland And Fife – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Roger Mullin: Womens List: Allison Graham.
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West of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Chris McEleny, Brian Lawson,
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Lothians – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Catriona MacDonald, Susan Katherine Sanders, Robert de Bold, Frank Anderson.
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Central Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline:13/11/2020
John Green
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South of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
William Mills
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Highlands and Islands – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Laura Mitchell
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North East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Dot Jessiman, Ciaran McRae, Kate Monaghan.
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South East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Cynthia Guthrie, Morgan Davies
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Who are the Glasgow nominees who are indy? ( not woke).
Big Jock
4 years ago
Alf – You are absolutely correct.
You do not appeal to the country you are trying to secede from to request their consent. Otherwise not one nation in the world would ever have done so.
You win an election. You then tell your own people that you will carry out their mandate as requested. What the other country does is up to them.
The mistake we are making here is allowing Westminster decide if, when and how our country will proceed. That’s not sovereignty. That’s serfdom.
4. Click on “Nominate” beside your selections until it changes to “Remove nomination”. When it has changed from “nominate” to “remove nomination” that means you have made your nomination.
Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.
Graeme McAllan
4 years ago
It’s got “SNAFU” written all over it 🙁
Willie
4 years ago
Good stuff Colin Alexander.
I was just going to blog in to road map how SNP members can nominate their choices for party positions.
Maybe Rev Stu could do a piece, if he agrees, on why Craig Murray would make an excellent SNP President. The ex diplomat – ambassador has all the skills and more and all backed up by a total commitment to democracy and fairness.
And maybe, some of the more computer savvy members could either through targeted emails or physical instruction assist less able technophobes to vote.
If we want to take back control, get our SNP back we all need to play our part.
Ottomanboi
4 years ago
Off topic, yet highly topical link to unherd.com
“Islamophobic” or is Tom Holland simply stating the facts without benefit of counterfeit tones of light and shade?
In this, as in so many current issues, time to to call a halt to the antics of establishment kidders and their deceits.
Liz
4 years ago
Someone on twitter heard a rumour, no confirmation, or evidence, that the NEC plus Murrell will be counting the nominations.
Lothianlad
4 years ago
I kept my SNP membership so I could bite to get rid of sturgeon when the time came.
I want to vote for craig murray but have had nothing through the post or email saying I can vote.
Should I call HQ or will I likely be fobbed off?
Lothianlad
4 years ago
A h….. colin Alexander, I should have read you post above before my last entry.
Sorry……..
stonefree
4 years ago
Just a couple of things
Corri Wilson? Has she got her name up for everything?
From memory A few on here didn’t speak highly of her,
Plus the NA hustings,….I question Why the candidates DIDN’T go ahead? While the papers are tending to lead with the “bullying ” following the Gibson narrative only
Has it been decided for Gibson already ? I merely ask
Craig Murray? Up front IMO an excellent choice, as they say “a cut above the rest”
Again if memory is correct he got scuppered by I think the NEC , and others in standing for 2015 election
I might suggest that was very early on in the “Sturgeon Reformation” in the picking of candidates
paul
4 years ago
Alf Baird says:
2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!
The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.
We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.
What you say is both clarifing and worrying.
Clarifing: Are we are union of nations or not.
Worrying: Can we address our position lawfully if the answer is not.
56% and rising, we can redress our position.
Every day and every interaction should refer to margaret thatcher:
“All they have to do is have a majority in westminster”
stonefree
4 years ago
@ Liz at 11:42 am
Would you be surprised? Might I suggest MacCann
&
@ Lothianlad at 11:52 am
“fobbed off”
Republicofscotland
4 years ago
Craig Murray has a tread up on the machinations of Murrell, and Police Scotland and the Crown Office, and his up and coming court appearance.
Thanks for the link to the article by Mandy Rhodes. “chaotic kaleidoscope of incompetence” is a good summary of the picture so far. Further digging by the Committee is required to find what lies below this surface.
kapelmeister
4 years ago
Republicofscotland @12:40
Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Sturgeon latest on coronavirus is that she is thinking of locking down Scotland, whether we need to it not, because England are going into lockdown and that will trigger 80% furlough.
This furlough will only last four weeks,,,so Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer.
Sounds crazy, but it is very real.
Scotland has no borrowing powers, so she as to take this furlough when it is available.
Independence would give us the powers to borrow for ourselves, but Sturgeon has avoided mentioning the I word.
Complicated to explain this in writing,,,
In short, we are being forced into an unnecessary lock down because England hold all the money.
cirsium
4 years ago
@Breeks, 8.09, @Alf Baird 10.32
Yes, we have to move fast. Ms Cherry’s successful court case was won on the principles of Scots Law which is based on the sovereignty of the people. If the talk is of a gold standard, surely the gold standard is not s30 but United Nations Resolution 1514 (XV) approved 14 December 1960
All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Also Article 1.2 of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development
“The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.”
ScottieDog
4 years ago
@ Ronald Fraser
Not really that complicated. Just that Scotland can’t do what’s appropriate for Scotland’s people and it’s economy whilst tethered to the U.K.
It also drives a coach and horses through Andrew Wilson and Charlotte st partners plan to use sterling. Under that regime we still wouldn’t be able to do what was right when it was right due to having to use someone else’s currency.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Scottie dog 1.26
Yes Scottie, I think she has to get an answer later on today on whether Scotland can go in to lock down at any time of our chosing, with the assurance that the 80% furlough will be paid for by Westminster.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
test message – my last post vanished
susanXX
4 years ago
The Scots pound is good enough for me. To hell with Sterling. Let England sink and close the border.
kapelmeister says:
2 November, 2020 at 1:05 pm
Republicofscotland @12:40
Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.
A judge led inquiry would achieve little more. Remember Dunblane!!! Any inquiry needs to be chaired by a trusted person of authority from outwith the UK.
The closest we got to justice is the time an investigation was led by a Canadian into the Holyrood election debacle created by Douglas Alexander and the Labour Party who tried to prevent the election of an SNP government by combining two voting systems on the same day.
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
Susan xx 1.38
I have the same dreams Susan.
Don’t worry Susan, England is sinking fast.
We need to break all ties ASAP.
Lenny Hartley
4 years ago
stonefree. The voting papers for selection of Cunninghame North Candidate will be go out in next couple Of weeks. The hustings yesterday only had one of the three candidates as the two challengers refused to share a platform with the incumbent Gibson whilst Bullying allegation Investigations against him were ongoing.
This clusterfuck is entirely at Hq’s door who have ignored written allegations from 11 people for around 18 months. They only took action when the were shamed into by the issue being “leaked” to the press. Previously they only response from HQ as that the allegations would be looked at during candidate selection vetting. (it wasnt) Currently the situation in the Constituency is that 5 of the seven SNP Councillors in North Ayrshire and 4 of six branches are not on speaking terms with Gibson.
This was all conveyed to HQ multiple times, the last i think being June 2019 .
Its unlikely that these investigations will be completed until after the selection of the Candidate,
Its not fair to any of them including Ken Gibson to have the selection done when this investigation is going on.
Like the NEC there needs to be a clear out at HQ.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
OT the video Graeme and I created now shows as ‘unavailable’. No idea how (fairly sure of the why and the who).
You Tube have not notified me – which they did the day before to tell me the video was ‘age restricted’ which was ironic since I had already made it so…
I’m full of the cold at the moment, and cannot work bloody computers on a good day.
……
Liz
4 years ago
No not surprised. Ever since McCann collated the votes over whether or not to block MPs, ie Joanna Cherry, from selection and collated the votes for the WC, where Spears came from behind to win, I don’t trust the counts at all.
Daisy Walker
4 years ago
Craig Murrays latest article about the Alex Salmnd stitch up is really something.
And so far, he has not been wrong.
Police notified SNP Highups that there was not enough evidence to charge on at least some of the complaints.
SNP High up said, ask them what they need and we’ll get it for them…
Two things spring to mind, firstly that the Police did not cross a line. If they had done, the first word of insufficient evidence would never have happened, and in the second, if they went on to do so, it would have been a very different trial.
Stuart MacKay
4 years ago
Colin Alenxander @11:06am
Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.
You should probably not do that. When you click on a button your web browser will send the request immediately. That you are not getting a response right away either means that the SNP server is slow and decrepit or is overloaded. Assuming each click toggles the state from “nominate” to “remove nomination” and back again then if you click it a lot you might end up with your nomination removed unless you wait long enough to be sure the server has recorded your choice.
Stuart MacKay
4 years ago
Imagine if you will, Mr. Murrell sitting there next to the server unplugging and plugging in the network cables over and over while laughing out loud, “Oh no, another few votes for Craig Murray, gone forever, muahahahaha!”
Alf Baird
4 years ago
cirsium @ 1.16
Arguably the two best routes to independence (as are noted in my 2020 book ‘Doun Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence’) are:
– the majority of Scotland’s MP’s UK withdrawal route;
OR, if Scotland is lawfully deemed to be a territory/colony of England, the ToU a meaningless charade, and ‘Scottish sovereignty’ non existent, then proceed:
– Via a Listing on the UN List of Colonies to be decolonized (i.e. C-24, The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples.)
In the event of the latter judgment, which I consider highly unlikely, I would love to see the ‘proud Scots’ ‘unionists’ among us deal with the revelation that no such union exists and that Scotland is a daft wee colony ruled by England.
Hatuey
4 years ago
” Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer… Sounds crazy, but it is very real.”
It’s not crazy, not if you apply the right filter
The dominant consideration and goal from the start was to harness it and use it to boost Sturgeon’s personal approval ratings. That’s what everything has been about since 2014; short-termist, opportunistic, narrow-minded, amateurish as fuck, crap.
The corona-crisis could have been handled honestly and, without even trying, it would have been a massive boon to the argument for independence.
Instead it’s a confused and mangled mess, the sort of mess you’d find if a fox got into a chicken coup. Except that it isn’t really confused, not if you look at it from the point of view of the fox.
The same thing happened with Brexit; on one hand we were to wait to see what deal the UK brokered before going for a referendum, on the other we were to “STOP BREXIT”.
On the face of it it’s confused and contradictory but it isn’t really; apply the filter – short-termist, opportunistic, approval-ratings-driven, amateurish crap – and it all makes perfect sense.
Rob
4 years ago
Can any one clear up a point. I am arging with this person on FB at the moment over the question…….Does Nicola sturgeon have any say on the appointment or reappointment of a civil servant such as Leselie Evans
This is a few years old, but does answer at least the first half of your question: link to gov.scot
Breeks
4 years ago
Alf Baird says:
2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
Well, I’d agree that she’s not going about it they way I would, but she’s the lawyer and I’m not. I like to think she’s just getting warmed up… But, I don’t know, maybe I’m too optimistic.
However, I would also point out that in the United Kingdom Union, proving the UK Parliament is NOT sovereign is tantamount to proving that Scotland is. Or rather, affirming that Scotland’s Constitution is extant, and that Constitution makes the Scottish people sovereign. – The same ‘sovereign’ people who said No to Brexit by emphatic democratic majority in 2016.
Both Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry have said this much, while speaking in the Westminster Chamber. So I think we have to trust they do have a grasp of the situation, but it’s now so late in the day that doing anything at this point is going to be a white knuckle ride.
The thing is, December marks the expiry of the Transition Agreement, and that feels like a watershed change of circumstance. However, Scotland has technically been Brexited and out of Europe since Sturgeons Capitulation speech last January… So if we are intending to challenge the Constitutional legitimacy of Brexit and Scotland’s unlawful subjugation, it is already a challenge in retrospect, and this December is just December.
But having said that, I do believe a Constitutional dispute of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty lodged before the Transition Period expires will, I think, function like a last minute reprieve for a blindfolded prisoner in front of the firing squad, because it will prevent the EU from signing off on Brexit.
Unfortunately, there’s another niggle in my head which goes back to Article 50, and if the clock runs out to negotiate a Brexit by consensus, then exit from Europe happens by default. The Brexit firing squad might not open fire, but we’re standing on the Brexit trap door which open’s at 00.01 hrs on Jan 1st 2021.
But don’t forget too, Joanna Cherry’s intervention which clarified that revoking Article 50 was the sovereign prerogative of the member State… So a “Sovereign” Scotland might yet, even now, have a Brexit Kill Switch. Revoke Article 50 as it pertains to Scotland…. Maybe. Maybe not. We might have lost that option back in January.
Why, oh why, have the bloody SNP sat twidling their thumbs these past five years instead of fighting this??? Why? Why? Why? I could honestly kick Nicola Sturgeon’s arse. Fking useless.
…The civil service is a matter reserved to the British parliament at Westminster (rather than devolved to Holyrood): Scottish Government civil servants work within the rules and customs of Her Majesty’s Civil Service, but serve the devolved administration rather than British government.
…The permanent secretary is a member of Her Majesty’s Civil Service, and therefore takes part in the permanent secretaries management group of the Civil Service[20] and is answerable to the most senior civil servant in Britain, the Cabinet Secretary (not to be confused with Scottish Government cabinet secretaries), for his or her professional conduct. He or she remains, however, at the direction of the Scottish ministers.
…
“Directorates” are the ministries of the Scottish Government. They serve to execute government policy. Unlike in the British government, cabinet secretaries, the equivalent of British government secretaries of state, do not lead the directorates, and have no direct role in their operation. Instead, the directorates are grouped together into six “Directorates General”, each run by a senior civil servant who is titled a “Director-General”. As of July 2017, there are six Directorates General…
Dorothy Devine
4 years ago
Daisy , brilliant video.
OT I started thinking about an anthem for Scotland and wandered on to this. We learned it at school and it was really good to revisit Mireille Mathieu performed with gusto , stirring stuff.
youtu.be/7va62mL_LYU
Ronald Fraser
4 years ago
You ever get the feeling that it seems to be a few regular posters on a website called Wings Over Scotland that knows what is going on within the SNP?
And that we are the ONLY punters that are trying to come up with answers to get us out of this fuckin mess?
Coz I do,,,I hear not a peep from anyone else, nothing from nobody.
Where are all these freedom fighters that were voted in at Westminster and Holyrood?
And to think they are all due ANOTHER pay increase,,,who are the mugs here, us or them?
I was shocked by how big the NEC is. It seems every interest group has to have representatives. The thing look unwieldy and stackable simply by the creation of new interest groups with effective common cause.
When you for good reasons decide to let different groups have access privileges you need to be aware that they can be subverted and be alive to entryism through them. The SNP seems to have sleepwalked into policy capture by a tiny minority. They need a Militant Tendency night of the long knives process to take the party back from these people.
Make no mistake when those of us in the ISP start to campaign these issues will be front and centre to justify our difference from the SNP. We want the SNP to be better, want them to abandon this focus on identity politics in place of independence. In response the tiny vocal group will cause us names. We are not afraid of this we will wear those names with pride.
Bring it on.
Reminds one of the computer definition of the phrase ‘out of sight, out of mind.’
Invisible idiot.
@Muscleguy
Your use of this site as a campaigning platform for the ISP is becoming a little tedious.
Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
Transparency at their next branch meeting.
They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….
It just gets worse by the day!
Muscleguy – never a truer word spoken ‘policy captured by a tiny minority’ that is exactly what I think has happened and now its like no one will tell the king he has no clothes on.
No one would want to see any minority or trans persons bullied or harmed in any but in protecting one group we cannot endanger another.
If the gender ID was put to a referendum I have do doubt it would be roundly defeated.
They are exactly a shady cabal. Who have no interest in independence.
I am glad to say I think their days are numbered. They should never be forgotten or forgiven.
Since 2014 the NEC of the SNP have not discussed independence once. That is both astonishing and telling.
Could someone from the re-sisters or women’s pledge give some indication of the anti-woke candidates for the plum jobs at NEC etc. ? Thanks. Asking for the 96% of the SNP who oppose the genderwoowoo idiocy.
Oneliner @9.45am
There would be no need for ISP if you woke folk listened to science and reason. Sadly you don’t.
Take your hate filled sloganizing and……..
Is that 1 or 2 cowards attempted distancing? SNP NEC = Nazis!
Some folk attempting to get the ball rolling again. Please help spread the word. link to twitter.com
I can almost hear them say something along the lines of
” I will fight to the last breath in my body to defend people’s rights(especially our own) anonymously” .
Un named cabal indeed ha ha ha ha ha.
Mr Campbell, some time ago you did an interview with Alex Salmond, I caught it on youtube.
Do you know what his plans might be for his future in politics, or has he got no plans to return
The great Sean Connery has just died and he never got his wish to see scotland independent before he went
I am sick of it all, I intend to spend 6 months here and 6 months on my land in asia
I am in fact thinking of moving there permanently to get way from the life here as its getting worse by the day.
The site has become like groundhog day and that’s no good for anyone, writing about the same stuff day in and day out without anything worthwhile happening is pointless
There are some people on here I would not be bothered with in my normal life, they think only there opinions matter, they have a small town mentality, and ego’s bigger than their intelligence.
Anyway, my life carries on as normal, yapping and doing nothing is not my way, I have always got off my arse to better myself, us moldovians are like that, we don’t give a fecking monkeys
Aw ra best
If you don’t know what to do then set up a committee. And if you really don’t know what to do, set up a truly massive committee, and divide it into loads of wee sub groups tasked with lots of silly meaningless things to keep them busy.
This is not what Scotland needs.
Scotland needs a new National Party with just the one policy – independence – and a leadership group comprising:
Craig Murray, Rev Stu, Alex Salmond, Kenny MacAskill, Chris McEleny, AB MacNeill, and anyone else who they consider appropriate.
This sincere and trusted independence-committed cabal should appoint all candidates to fight the May Holyrood election solely as a plebiscite on independence, and to lead any negotiation thereafter. We don’t need ‘constituency’ MSP who want to set up their own wee constituency offices and bed in for the long term. We just need enough MSP votes to end the union and start the process to rebuild Scotland and repair its culture.
Lets get independence done.
At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’
I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.
@Astonished
You make some considerable assertions.
Where am I to be seen as woke?
Where am I to be seen as hate-filled?
As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.
Your inaccurate and over emotional response to my post speaks volumes.
It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.
“We’re not come shady cabal” right next to pictures of Joana Cherry – nice, negative framing The National. Seems the “Shady Cabal” is alive and kicking in the SNP House Journal.
The oversized NEC needs to be reduced. Its obviously the case that turkeys don’t usually vote for an early Christmas, so they may need a push from SNP members/delegates at the conference.
Also Craig Murray’s election as SNP president – even though its not an executive position, would re-set the direction of the YES movement IMO.
There are so many folk putting themselves up for SNP NEC positions it’s difficult to know who they all are and their credentials.
Colin Alexander posted this list in the following comment on previous thread.
link to wingsoverscotland.com
A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.
We are NOT a “secret cabal” said member “A”.
This was confirmed by fellow NEC members B, C, D, E…
This reminds me of the recent court case against Alex Salmond, where all the accusers where identified by a letter of the alphabet.
Secrecy seems to be the way forward for the SNP, led by the equally secretive Mr Murrell.
“Don’t go into something to test the waters, go into things to make waves.”
Anonymous
@Ronald Fraser
Cracking irony in the statement:
We are NOT a ‘secret cabal’ said member ”A”
Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.
“The reality is a lot more boring”.
Yes, I’m sure autocracy isn’t as much fun as it’s cracked up to be.
There’ll soon be more members of the NEC than there will be actual foot soldiers.
And the top table of the SNP seem to be completely oblivious to this minor matter.
(Or don’t give a flying fuck about it).
Oneliner 10.26am
“Cabal – from the initials of Charles II secret court – Cavendish; Ashley; Buckingham; Arlington; Lauderdale – or somesuch.”
Interesting.
If I were still a member, I’d be asking Pete M the actual cost of running the NEC, in the previous financial year. I’m not sure I’d get a reply, though. But it seems a relevant question.
Look but do not touch
Haha, priceless.
Oh dear oh dear – go on then, NEC, convince us you are not a shady cabal from under cover of anonymity and not wanting to be named, no shadiness there at all: obviously we have to just have faith and believe, without question, a statement that could have been made by any random Russian bot. Not shady or cabal-like in the slightest.
Haven’t Russian bots ever heard of IRONY?
Priceless. Thick as mince.
Hmm, yes, I think Stoker is right, and perhaps it might be worthwhile for everyone to check out the final comment on the last article.
@kapelmeister says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am
“It’s true, they’re not just some shady cabal….they’re Sturgeon’s shady cabal.”
Sounds like an M&S advert… or perhaps S&M would be more appropriate.
Mind you,to be fair, it seems not all NEC members are necessarily notified that meetings are taking place.
You would imagine that ordinarily you would feel something pretty shifty was taking place when you were committed .
However, maybe they have become accustomed to such behaviour.
Beaker @11:06
By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.
@kapelmeister says:
1 November, 2020 at 11:20 am
“By S&M you must mean Sturgeon & Murrell.”
That has just put a most unwelcome image in my mind. And now it is in everyone else’s 🙂
More seriously, if someone will only speak anonymously, there are either NEC rules preventing disclosure, or the speaker is afraid of someone else who has far more influence.
It would seem the NEC has become much like the majority of the woke “community” more akin to a high school debating club,
but, but, but, what if, or maybe (you can’t talk you don’t have the conch shell, to paraphrase Lord of the Flies, I believe)
If it’s so mundane and boring why don’t they publish the minutes of meetings in full (with names of course) or better still record them and post them on utube.
Go on bore us! I dare you!
A more worrying aspect is how did the SNP management ever let this happen? An even bigger high school debating club? Mibbie! Or is it they just don’t give a flying f#*k.
I’m an “ordinary member” and they certainly seem like some shady cabal to me. Trying to put things right with better nominees for the NEC – although the site for voting is horrendous. Takes three or four clicks to register your nomination but it can be easily removed accidentally with one click. No submit button either and the only way you know you have registered your choice is when the button changes from nominate to “remove nomination”. If no change to the NEC then I’m giving up on them for good.
Beaker @11:23.
To quote Zappa.
… eventually me and my friend sort of drifted along into S & M, I can take about an hour on the tower of power…..
Horrible image indeed
Haha
“We’re ot some shady cabal”. Blimey, they don’t do irony do they.
Dan says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:19 am
“A comment by Gregor on another thread asked if there was some kind of guide that would assist members in deciding who to cast their votes for.”
I believe there are lists of people recommended by The SN Women’s Pledge Group and also a list created, I think, by Joanna Cherry.
They can say they’re not a shady cabal all they like, people see them differently and not in a good way.
It’s the Scottish way – follow the lead of the Establishment.
I am reminded of the advice given to ayoung Elder, attending his first General Assembly. He asked the Elder next to him: “What do I do? How do I vote?”
His guide pointed to the late Lord MacLeod of Iona and said: “Whatever he does, however he votes – you do likewise.”
I fear a lot of that thinking still goes on around the NEC and the Party’s high heid yins.
Message for the Rev,
I’ve sent you a message re Soapbox entry.
Be very useful / practical if you could respond in some form or another.
<b.CORRECTION
I should have written: Lord MacLeod of Fuinary.
If Craig Murray were to be elected President of the SNP – it would shed a more high profile light on the dodgy court case they are attempting to stitch him up with.
For all the remaining SNP members out there.
Just a wee thought. Plus he’s a good un.
We are not a shady cabal. Hmmm. OK, I wonder who I’ll decide not to be today. Is deciding who you are “not”, the same as self-ID, where you can decide what you “are”?
Oh this is such good fun!
We’re being run by a pre-school playgroup.
For those that asked for the advice. Full list of NEC candidates (near the end of the blog) together with recommendations, (emboldened names)
link to caltonjock.com
“I’ve sent you a message re Soapbox entry.”
I have no emails from you, including in the spam filters.
The media are addicted to fear….and our politicians just love the powerful multi-orgasms
link to spiked-online.com
Politicians have always lied but now they indulge the Platonic ‘noble lie’ to keep us safe from our reckless ourselves.
Which is worse being free to be reckless or even irresponsible or that of compliantly swallowing the next dose of the lie liberally laced with mind numbing fear.
Scottish independence is about freedom. The dissemblers are taking us on a ride in the opposite direction. Quarantined in their hubris bubble they think we haven’t noticed.
Prick the bubble, prick their arrogance and conceit. They are accountable.
“It was a day when I was preparing a speech to be delivered in praise of the Emperor: there would be a lot of lies in the speech and they would be applauded by those who knew that they were lies.”
The Confessions of St. Augustine
“We’re not some shady cabal”, said an anonymous spokesman for some shady cabal.
Absolutely right Alf Baird, Scotland needs a National Party focussed on independence. That is what the SNP was supposed to be but sadly isn’t at the moment.
Policy capture by a minority group and a leadership opposed to independence is what has happened. Why it has happened is a matter of debate but what is for sure is that it won’t stay that way.
COVID has been a blessing for the coterie of control. There is no doubt about that and the leadership have schemed under its cover. However, the membership has now woken up to what has been going on and they are not going to wear it. And if the leadership doesn’t change that membership will move elsewhere.
A ready made National Party could be a reality quicker than you could think. Indeed with the Scottish Parliament under threat, Brexit, the U.K. Internal Market Bill and a collapsing economy, now is just about the right time to start a new party.
Indeed with the SNP leadership now at odds with the membership they fail to realise that the membership will, en masses move to another vehicle taking with them knowhow and commitment that other parties could only dream of.
A list party with big names capitalising on the public dissatisfaction would without doubt be seat winner. But so to could high profile independents targeted against sitting MSP’s who have let the side down.
The coterie of control might indeed have a lot less control than they think. Outflanked and outgunned is how it will be. They don’t have a god given monopoly. If the members and the movement shift elsewhere – as they will be if nothing changes, history will record the shabby wreckage to be similar to that of New Labour.
The next few months I think will be interesting.
The SNP leadership is now at odds with the membership. Everything has been centralised and control seized by the
Ottomanboi . I’ve been following Ivor Cummins’s videos for a few months now , he’s been like an oasis of calm sanity in a desert of deliberately induced hysteria , giving the lie to the insanity of continuing governmental Lockdowns and Restrictions . I’ve also appreciated the links to related articles you’ve posted here , all excellent , for which , thanks . I keep thinking eventually the general public will see through the fog of propaganda and realise what’s driving all this and what the implications are for all of us , alas, so far , the mass-hypnosis seems to still be intact
The NEC needs a clear out starting with the self serving Rihannon Spear. Tommy Shepherd has been giving stories to the UNIONIST press and is the cancer within the party. Don’t fall for the court jester act, he is a nasty piece of work who does not give a shit about independence. Then Roz Currie, who is bad enough to fail vetting for her toxicity but good enough for the NEC. The YSI lot should be cast adrift too as they are a bunch of over ambitious kids who are only thinking about their own careers and do not give a shit about independence. I hope the YSI lot trying to get selected just now lose big time. We need more like Joanna Cherry who has the courage to speak out
Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.
“Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”
Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.
The NEC only became the focus when ordinary members started questioning the leadership and policy; the emphasis on it reflects internalised strife and division caused by you-know-who.
That’s what she does. She could cause a fight in an empty NEC.
link to crowdjustice.com
‘Cabal’ was in use before Charles 2
OED
1670 A. Marvell….. The governing Cabal..are Buckingham, Lauderdale, Ashly, Orery, and Trevor. Not but the other Cabal [Arlington, Clifford, and their party] too have seemingly sometimes their Turn.
Not sure BLAOT would have caught on
Contrary to the opinion that I’m simply here to troll and stroke my ego in public, I’ve actually been trying to point folks towards a scientifically, ethically, and legally informed approach to social emancipation. I would not have gone to the efforts and extent I have, if folks hadn’t expressed a need to understanding issues such as the proposed GRA amendments.
However, given folks apparently aren’t interested in learning how to defend their legal rights, there’s not much point in my trying to help. I do get triggered by those who are keen to twist reality though, so I’ll leave you with the reminder that the WOKE perspective was designed to counter neo-liberalism. So WOKE is good. The NEC does not support WOKE policy though, they support policy that is consistent with eugenics and totalitarianism.
So best of luck to all open minded and reasonable patriots out there, as you’re certainly up against it with the shower of shite that now controls the SNP, and our government’s legal practice.
It seems that Midlothian CA is a smaller vertion of the NEC.
Now that is a shady cabal!
Littered with Anti Indepedence careerists led my a very uninspiring MP and MSP, the sense of entitlement would shame the british aristocracy!
The MP lost a 10,000 Majority in 2017, then the full steam stop brexit bus ran out of fuel, so it wont be travelling on the road to Independence any time soon. Why would it? devolution has served these people well!
Scotland freedom will be the price.
How I despise these self seeking careerist politicians!
O wad some powe’r the giftie gie us… They certainly appear like a shady cabal from here. They are not acting like a NEC, but like a meeting place for different lobbying groups. Lobbying interests are the real scourge of the political system these days, and the more cash washing around within these groups (e.g. the more extreme elements of the trans lobby, financed by big money – 0.3% of the population as against 51-2%) and the louder they shout, the more they are heard. It seems like they act as the conduit for policies that might not find public favour. I don’t blame people for wishing to rain anonymous because there is also a fair amount of venom washing around, too.
Stoker 10.01am
Your link to another way, needs spread far and wide,,, today,,,not tomorrow or the next day.
link to twitter.com
To fellow Restoration-era enthusiasts trying to remember who was in The Cabal (I couldn’t remember who C stood for; I thought it might be Clarendon but that’s who they replaced)-
Lucky we don’t have to identify who’s running the kingdom now based on their initials eh?
-Socrates-
I’d have thought Lord Macleod was a thorn in the side of the Kirk establishment as he devoted much of his career to fighting poverty and war? Opposed Billy Graham’s cheap hustler Christianity too?
We need to move fast against the so called “wise guys” running the SNP.
Their idea of holding indyRef2 sometime in the 2030s is for the birds.
Our only lines of communication with the EU are being cut at the end of this year.
After that, it’s all down hill.
Where Scotland WILL become just another Region of Northern Britain.
With the same relevance to Westminster as Greater Manchester.
test message
Rev,
One last time before I throw the damned computer out the window. Glitches galore today.
Graeme and I created the below. Would it be suitable for a Soapbox entry. Paticulary as we so near 11/11/20.
https://
youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
So two anonymous NEC members, claim that the NEC isn’t a shady cabal, they couldn’t have come across any shadier if they tried.
This inept statement hasn’t done a single thing to endear ordinary folk to the NEC members, if anything, its made them more suspicious of it and its members.
This is reminiscent of BBC officials coming out and claiming that the BBC seek parity when reporting on Scottish independence.
Oneliner says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:10 am
As a result of Collette Walker’s untruths against them, currently, my second vote is for AFI – you need to convince me otherwise.
Do you any evidence or examples of “untruths”? I haven’t seen any.
@ahundredthidiot
Last thread is locked so i’ll have to say this here: your post made for really great reading. Thanks for sharing
Stoker’s comment
link to wingsoverscotland.com
provides a link to a tweet from AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, which sounds all very nice and organised and all very grass-rootery, but when I look at the article in the National, the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters how to be properly grassroots like, in a manner in which the SNP will approve of, so as to not offend anyone, particularly our betters in Westminster.
I wonder if he plans to tell everyone to Wheesht, which is the only current SNP policy I’m aware of.
Has anybody tried switching Pete Wishart off and on again to see if sorts itself out.
link to twitter.com
It’s like he’s become the Indy equivalent of the Murphy Bot 900 a la Moodievision retro vid circa 2015.
link to youtube.com
Jim McGuire. Totally agree with you about Shepherd. He is the rot at the heart of it all. Rejected by labour and used SNP to claim what he views as his rightful place in Westminster. He has all the YSI and young Edinburgh councillors do his dirty work for him. Look at his shenanigans in Edinburgh Eastern. Trying to unseat Ash Denham by putting up the useless Kate Campbell. He went to the Times with a false story about Denham and Kate Campbell stupidly put her name to it. Tommy’s useful idiot! He is using the GRA to whip up the YSI lot against Denham who opposes it all because she does not do what he says. He promises all these YSI and young councilors seats at the big table but uses them all for his own means. He needs ousted from the NEC now. He is the cause of all the issues there.
Even the worst communist regimes in history let people know who was in the politburo
AUOB about ‘new’ National Yes group, is to be addressed by Ian Blackford.
FFS @Contrary says at 2:38 pm
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Don’t have a problem with that as long as all Blackford says says is sorry for letting Scotland get dragged out of the EU despite his promises to the contrary and then sits the fuck down and listens to the Yes Groups.
The SNP need the YES Groups (to canvas for Holyrood 2021), the YES Groups do not need the SNP.
Hopefully Blackford will be sent packing with a very loud and clear message to deliver to Bute House.
Dan, that’s an interesting tweet from Pete Wishart, who uses ‘listvotesense’ as a source to support his view – who or what is this ‘listvotesense’ that has sprung up? An entire Twitter account and blog site dedicated to ‘informing’ the public about how to vote – and claiming to be the site that unionists hate – so, without bothering to read any of their articles, we jump straight to their ‘about’ page – you know, the one that tells us their background, their affiliations, and their ráison d’être :
https://listvotesense.medium.com/about?source=post_page—–370b72532791——————————–
And, yes, a somewhat bank page. In the same manner as the transparency we have come to expect,,, from the SNP. Not shady or cabal-like at all. Well, if you admire and wish to emulate the Westminster parties, you might as well go the whole hog.
Stoker says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:06 am
At ‘One liner’ & ‘Astonished’
I thoroughly recommend you both take a look at the very last comment on the previous thread, read it and take heed or you both will suffer the consequences, disguised in new names or not.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
1 November, 2020 at 3:27 am
I’m locking this thread, because I cannot tell you how fucking sick I am of the fighting here.
Cameron: TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.
Stuart. Have to say, spot-on.
I seem to remember it mentioned, by himself possibly,he had had a head, or brain injury, several years ago.
Does get a bit waring, skipping over.
JWT,
Haha, yes, that would be a situation I wouldn’t have a problem with.
I doubt that would be Ian Blackford’s vision, though.
And I wonder how many Yes Groups might be reluctant to join, just from having ANY SNP involvement? I don’t think it’s a good move to invite in any SNP infiltration – it makes the ‘grassroots’ part sound like a sham.
‘Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
1 November, 2020 at 1:08 pm
“Reducing the NEC membership won’t necessarily reduce the woke influence. It could just result in a slim shady cabal.”
Take the rest of the afternoon off and think about what you did.’
Least the NEC would be tolerable to a rap beat. 🙂
youtube.com/watch?v=l7KEuKKuuas&ab_channel=HDlyricsEminem
Let’s be honest, we all knew years ago that there was an unhealthy blurring of the lines between the grassroots groups and the party. Nobody has ever really explained or understood the relationship.
If Sturgeon has done us one favour in the last 6 years, she has drawn attention to the lack of organisation and impetus the grassroots movement has, so much so that she has been able to disregard and shun it without a care.
Sturgeon wants the Indy movement to be cheerleaders and fundraisers for her and the party. Nothing more. I’m sure she’s not the only one in the SNP that wants that.
The Yes Juggernaut, as someone called it in an earlier thread, scared the life out of the British Establishment; they thought it would stall after the result of 2014, but the engine continued to roar…
That juggernaut needs a cabin and a crew to guide it. A lot of us are wondering how you exert pressure on the SNP right now, talking about new parties, NEC rules, etc., maybe the answer has been staring us all in the face.
If this was to be done rationally, the grassroots would organise through an umbrella group like AUOB, and they’d consider fielding candidates and challenging the SNP leadership when it veers from the path of independence.
Imagine all the energy of ordinary people, local groups, and the grassroots more widely, channeled positively, socially and politically, and able to concentrate its weight on specific points, raising funds, backing candidates, etc.
The independence movement needs a vehicle like that and deserves it, if only to keep the SNP good and true. It could be a massive driving force in Scotland for all sorts of good stuff, arts, politics, everything, and it needn’t be short of funds.
The SNP and others like the BBC take advantage of the fact that there’s a shortage of funds out there amongst the grassroots, allowing them to pick off people, co-opt them, play them, undermine them, etc.
@ Contrary at 3.13pm
It’s not the first time PW has utilised that particular account for pushing the Both Votes SNP narrative.
Jeggit tweeted this a couple of weeks back and he seems pretty sure he knows who is behind it.
link to twitter.com
You’d think an astute politician would at least begin to think about the reasons why folk are questioning or becoming despondent with the party they normally vote for and are now considering other options…
I like the idea of a Yes movement. The SNP are post, we need to take the reigns.
One reason thete was so much negativity towards AUOB IMO, is that it scared the shit out of the control freaks
Contrary @2.38pm
Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be ther to put them all to sleep.
Contrary @2.38pm
Aye, my heart sank when I saw Blackford mentioned. He’ll be there to put them all to sleep.
Effijy says:
1 November, 2020 at 9:49 am
Could an SNP party member, if any are still here,
Please raise the meaning of Independence and then
Transparency at their next branch meeting.
They are sounding exactly like the Daily Hail that starts their
Fantasies with a reliable but unnamed source said….
It just gets worse by the day!
Happy to do so whenever that may be.
At present my branch secretary like me feels a virtual zoom committee meeting would attract about 3 of us, her the chair and me.
All others don’t use Internet often never mind zoom.
If we held one we would be none quorate.
But it’s on file to bring up.
????
For those wanting guidance about voting for Holyrood candidates and NEC etc positions, this twitter account is helpful:
link to twitter.com
There are updates and suggestions from other tweeters, so keep checking!
For instance, today there is a tweet (link to twitter.com) from Chris McCusker, who has only just found out that he needs 100 nominations before asking members in the West of Scotland to actually vote for him. The nominations can come from anywhere.
I’m mentioning that, not just because I think Chris would be a useful addition to the NEC, but also because it applies to all the other good candidates too.
Nominate first, then vote for those who receive enough support to stand.
Daisy Walker says:
1 November, 2020 at 11:57 am
Nominated.
Cheers to boris @ 12.01pm and crazycat @ 4.06pm for info on NEC candidates.
Here’s the actual tweet by Denise with names rather than the tweet account. As over time that tweet will disappear down the timeline.
link to twitter.com
thank you Muscleguy at 9.32am
Dan,
Re the dodgy ‘ listvotesense’ blog and Twitter – Thanks for the heads up, it’s kind of obvious it’s going to be an insider of some kind – I mean, how badly could you set something up so it looks like it has zero credibility? And that one of our MPs – so careful to ONLY use either MSM or establishment sources for their info normally – uses said dodgy site. So, PW knows who it is, and knows it has no credibility (and I noticed Mhairi Hunter sticking her oar in somewhere along the line of threads) – if it did, their name and interests would have been declared.
Bunch of charlatans. They are actively tried to con the voting public.
All this “NEC” shite reminds me so much of Scottish Labour and the Labour Party as a whole.
Flash backs to the days of Lamont and Murphy, fills me with utter sickening dread that Scotland has to go through all this secrecy AGAIN.
Why do we need to try and keep the SNP sweet?
It’s like begging your torturer to stop beating you so much.
Contrary 4.31pm
I remember all sorts of dodgy Unionist sites popping up in the run up to indyRef1, aided and abetted by the bastards of BBC Scotland.
Aye, there is a list being shared with all of the suspected 5th columnists about with a few names on the NEC on it. Tommy Shepherd is at the top. No surprises there. He needs to be put out of the NEC along with Spear and all of the YSI.
@ Dan at 4.23
Thank you; I posted the link to the whole account, not just the one tweet, deliberately, to encourage people to read the whole thing, because there are others joining in with their own suggestions.
Denise has pinned the tweet about MSP candidates, but as you say, the other lists will move down the line. I expect she’ll keep reposting them, though; she usually does that.
(I also think she deserves to be read more widely in general! So anything that takes people to her twitter has to be good.)
SNP members. To support office-holder nominations, log-in to http://snp.org.
Click: My Account>Elections>Nominations
Click “Nominate” for your candidates. I had to click up to 4 times before some of them registered. “Nominate” becomes “Remove Nomination” when you successfully nominate. Craig Murray for President!
Hatuey,
I believe what you are talking about organising is a political party. If it’s a political party, IMO it is no longer grassroots.
I lost a fairly long comment on Friday, that was suggesting a way to organise – not the whole grassroots right enough – but pulling together some other folks’ ideas into one. Daisy’s £1 million crowdfunder; Breeks’ ideas on alternative ways of getting independence – without politicians; a few comments about people wanting to physically give signatures to a covenant; Ian Brotherhood’s willingness to make a stand. Be assured it was a great plan, and extremely well-written, but it’s lost to the ether now, and the moment has passed. It was only really to encourage debate anyway.
I don’t think the ‘grassroots’ should organise under a controlling umbrella, or have the controlling influence ‘leadership’ implies. There is a Yes Groups App is there not? That should give sufficient links for people to get ideas together and communicate with each other – if there can’t be agreement there, well, there won’t ever be agreement under any ‘leadership’ either. If that’s what people want to do though, then they should go ahead. But, I believe that, if it hasn’t happened naturally, then forcing it isn’t going to work. I’m assuming here that most Yes Groups like having their freedom and independence.
Just like the idea of AUOB – who, I’m sure, have the best of intentions – think bringing everyone together,,, then having a political representative telling them what to, is a good idea? That’s political to my mind, and is just another form of control – as soon as something becomes ‘organised’, it can be controlled. We leave ourselves vulnerable.
Having lots of disorganised groups might not be efficient, and might not get us anywhere fast, but at least we know that there isn’t one big mass of infiltration, there are still groups that can be ‘trusted’. When the right idea comes along that the majority want to get behind – then we have the winning strategy – then we have all the leadership we need. Doing everything the BritNat way has been tried, it hasn’t worked, so try something else.
OT
I’ve been trying to submit the following to the Rev via Soapbox. But there is a computer glitch.
Can I get a little bit of feedback. See if anyone here thinks its worthy. If you like it, pass it on.
https://
youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
Made by me n Graeme. First effort. Be kind.
Ronald Fraser,
Aye, tell me about it, I didn’t even spot near half of them at the time. A ‘grassroots’ group in favour of the Union certainly rang alarm bells though!
Its like the SNP are trying to do their own poor-man version, what with not having control of the BBC. Its a bit cringe-worthy, but it likely works on enough people that want to believe.
Re the Comments about Tommy Shepherd. I cannot comment about the man, as I don’t know him or his area.
What does worry me, is his experience in ‘new labour’ and that he was the first one to publicly talk about any IndyRef2 having to be shelved until after Brexit had been delivered. Wishart followed soon after. At that time, all the Yessers, and SNP members were confident and had a game plan they were following…. now gone or divided.
Wee Child at 4.02pm
Heh, yeah, that’s another consideration – a strange choice of speaker if you want to inspire everyone.
Daisy,
I can’t access that you tube link, if you can give me some search criteria, I’ll search for it though – I still have half an hour left of my allocated ‘avoid housework’ time, so can watch if it’s not too long.
The You Tube site has been named (at least in the first instance) Scottish Singers and Songs
The song is called Bombing is the London Way
the link is https:// youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
And I’ve just tried it and it seems to be working. Good luck (I so hate computers).
@Daisy Walker,
is this it,
youtu.be/qunIJD45qz8
or this,
link to youtube.com
@ Scott 5.38 version – that’s it. Well done.
Just voted for Craig Murray as the SNP need a plan B,C and D.
Well done daisy walker!
@ ScottieDug
And Graeme without whom it would never have got done.
Excellent Daisy, if excellent is the right word to use.
Can you imagine how it would feel, if those were Syrian MP’s laughing and cheering about bombing the UK, and then proceeded to level the place, houses, civic buildings, schools, hospitals, seeing all the chronology of your towns and cities blown to bits.
Ending the UK won’t end their warmongering madness, but from Independence Day forward, it will be England’s shame, no longer Scotland’s.
Shepherd needs to be put out of the NEC along with all of the YSI. He is the one who brought the Labour disease into the NEC. Total hypocrite who claims to be a socialist but is a millionaire living in a big Southside townhouse. His puppet Kate Campbell making a big issue about an MP sending her son to private school however she went too along with her Fettes educated partner (who works for Shepherd!!!). Don’t trust this mob as they are just opportunist trying to launch their careers in an SNP high tide. They are not for independence. Everyone can see through the YSI who spend more time trolling SNP MSPs and ranting about side issues than independence. Salmond would never had put up with this shite. Makes you wonder who is in charge. Keep at it Stuart. Don’t let these charlatans blow our chance of independence in exchange for their own vanity.
contrary @ 5.05 “what you are talking about organising is a political party”
No, something much bigger than that. A societal party.
There’s got to be close to a million people in Scotland who support independence. Not all of them want to engage beyond voting for the SNP, that’s fine, but a lot do.
How many other organisations can put 200 thousand people on the blustery streets of Glasgow at the drop of a hat?
Right now all that energy and good will isn’t channeled. It amounts to nothing. Everybody is too busy online trying to be A.J. Ayer or fighting some inconsequential personal battle that will ultimately satisfy nobody.
Organisation could do something about all that. Create an umbrella group, invite all the significant organisations, Common Weal, Yes Groups, Wings, Hope Over Fear, Bella, etc., and have them come up with a constitution and structure that puts power in the hands of the grassroots.
It’s easy to imagine a board of some sort that represents everybody, with say half the board elected by ordinary people (members) and the other half by the various pro-indy organisations. Since everybody would be included, everybody would matter.
Right now none of us matter, not even Wings; it’s become a sort of game of tearing at each other, Twitter bans, and one-upmanship. Stu more or less said that himself the other day.
It wouldn’t be long before an organisation like that had a lot of weight to throw around, funding arts, writers, political candidates, movie makers, you name it.
If the joining fee was as little as £10 per year, it would soon have untold funds. And for that £10 you would get a lot more than you get for the £50 or so many currently give the SNP – an organisation that is constitutionally hard-wired to fight for the Independence Movement and further the cause of Independence.
If such a group existed today, the SNP would be forced to get its act together. As it is they don’t need to even listen to us – actually it looks like they are going in the opposite direction and doing everything they can to undermine and degrade their own members, never mind the wider grassroots who have been treated with total contempt lately.
Daisy Walker, that was excellent, what a lovely singing voice you have! And the line ‘ye dinnae mak yer fortune on an MPs pay’ is a really good one, catchy. The video is really well put together.
Now the critique – YouTube need you to sign in as proof of age – I assume this is because of a lot of the imagery used. Although images of dead babies gets tough messages across, it will limit your audience.
I think I was waiting for the ‘point’ in the video, after the intro of the vote in parliament and the distinction made for SNP votes, I thought there might be some other message on that point, or wanted something less subtle. That might just be me, of course, wanting more documentary narrative – the message you put across: that they make their fortune bombing children comes across clear. That a vote in parliament has consequences, more serious consequences than their braying and jeering in that place implies, is clear.
Well done to both. As a first go, it looks professional, and I would never have thought it was a first attempt.
All of these NEC and YSI claiming to be grassroots! How can you be on the NEC, a post holder in the YSI or seeking nomination whilst working for a parliamentarian and claim to be grassroots! Pull down the NEC and kick out all the woke brigade and the opportunists and get in those committed to independence. Really getting sick of all this. I see a few names on this thread coming up repeatedly. There should be a list of those NOT to vote for in the NEC. Kill off their ambitions before they kill off ours.
The answer to this is simple.
If you are not a shady cabal, then stop acting like one. In other words prove is wrong.
Words are just words, your actions tell a different story. People are rightly judged by their actions.
The NECs actions are that of a control freak , obsessed with a niche pursuit of gender assignment and not independence.
I rest my case your honour. Guilty!
Hatuey . I really like the sound of that . I’ve long thought the reliance on established parties to achieve our goal was a possible dead-end , particularly since the ostensible Party of Independence has apparently abandoned it’s raison d’etre , or is playing such a long game the latent/frustrated energy you refer to will have dissapated , and we know the inherent problems entailed in the inevitable focus on ” Personalities ” within political parties and MSM . The main obstacle to such an approach could be one of engagement , how many would be prepared to give the necessary time and commitment ? Still think it’s an idea with great potential nonetheless
@ Daisy Walker
Of course and well done Graeme!
Contrary says:
1 November, 2020 at 2:38 pm
…. the assembly – 14th of November I think – is to be addressed by Ian Blackford. Forgive me, but I have no trust left in the SNP whatsoever, and being addressed by that man makes it sound like all the Yes Groups are about to rounded up and told by our betters…
Maybe, but I think he’d be unceremoniously boo’d off the stage if he did.
I’m not defending the man, but being purely objective, if YES can draw out those parts of the SNP who are disillusioned with Sturgeon and the Wokerati, then you’d imagine it will leave the SNP looking weak and emaciated, with Nicola and GRA scarecrows looking spent and increasingly irrelevant.
Blackford too did say the words in Westminster. Check back in Hansard, and the ultimatums are in there… They could be important further down the line. I’m very curious why both Blackford and Joanna Cherry have both made the right noises, but then pulled their punches… or maybe had them pulled.
“IF” the bulk of the SNP can be salvaged, that is probably the best result for the good of Independence, but the act of salvage will need to be pretty ruthless in getting rid of the wreckers. However, the SNP is the party of Government, with elected representatives, and with that position go certain capacities which would be very useful to maintain. For example, a new Party might be very popular in Scotland, but without any actual democratic mandate, you can bet it would be shunned by Westminster.
I’m not ruling that out by the way,… I’d be more than happy to take my chances with a Constitutional Convention drawing it’s legitimacy from Scotland’s sovereign Constitution, – but I can readily accept that might be too radical for the majority.
Thanks ScottieDog
But to be fair Daisy directed it more or less from start to finish it’s her song & her vision
@Dan (1.39am, previous thread) –
Just to let you know I have been working on something very similar for several years now and Netflix are interested.
I do hope you won’t raise any awkward copyright/intellectual property objections.
😉
well done Daisy and Graeme.Excellent video and song. Very Scottish-sounding melody and unaccompanied singer hark back to roots in the Gaelic tradition.
A tale of two Didos…
The first sang aboot havin’ sand in her shoes.
The second after spaffing 12,000,000,000 quids of taxpayers’ dosh on failed covid track and trace system should be wearing concrete boots!
link to twitter.com
Could anyone who is interested in the protest camp suggestion please consider joining livejournal.com
I don’t want to use this place to discuss such stuff because
1. That would be a remarkably stupid thing to do.
2. The last thing we need right now is WOS being accused of harbouring subversives and rabble-rousers.
😉
Knock yersel oot Ian. If I cannae get the acting gig and you make the big bucks aff it then I’ll accept a netflix login so I can watch it when it premieres.
Oh, and a couple of bouteilles of Paul Mason vino for ease of pishin’ whilst attending future lockdown garden parties. 😉
I have other script ideas if yer interested. There’s a good un’ aboot red squirrel conservation involving romance, eating, drinking, locals, with council, government and EU workers and funding (though I guess the EU aspect will need editing oot noo…)
Liking the protest ideas by the way. Just struggling for time at moment with work on hoose and tooth isssue.
@Dan –
I think you’ll like it when it is screened. Kind of Twin Peaks meets Trainspotting. The pilot episode is feature-length and the working title is ‘The Hills Have Pehs’. Could be huge.
Hope you get the choppers sorted asap – sounds nasty.
😉
@ Daisy and Graeme
Well done indeed! I’ll look forward to further episodes.
@Ian Brotherhood: just in case you’re unaware, your LiveJournal blog or individual posts can be set to be viewed by friends only. That’s another useful advantage of LJ.
These days can one simply Self ID as Welsh?
link to twitter.com
@Daisy/Graeme –
Powerful stuff.
Have shared the link via YT.
Any ‘new’ group advocated in any way by Mr Blackford is doomed to failure: the man is useless and can bring nothing but derision and scorn to any movement. He is, in fact, the Yoons secret weapon in Westminster.
Robert Bruce is supposed to have advised Scots in general (or maybe his son and eventual successor, though the future David II must have been only a toddler at the time, and would later ignore his advice) to ‘avoid pitched battles’.
Modern politics is one ongoing never-ending pitched battle, and political parties organise themselves precisely in view of fighting their opponent(s) in that way. This is one of the reasons why modern ‘party politics’, waged in contemporary talk-shop parliaments, in supposedly adversarial terms, is so dull, boring, deadening, ineffective and predictable.
Quite the turn-off for the ordinary human being. ‘Here they come again …’ With no element of surprise, as all the time-worn platitudes and sonorously silly sound-bites are trotted out yet again … and again … and again.
There is no element of surprise.
And most people simply aren’t much interested. Which often suits the purposes of the dim-wit politicians who think themselves so important and powerful, under their self-deluding illusion that the levers of power are all theirs.
When, in fact, most of the real game is being played elsewhere, without them.
Bruce was also accused of not being a gentleman. Specifically, because he did not play the game of war according to the rules of the game. He did not follow all the arcane military codes of so-called chivalry.
Aristocrat though he was, I expect the ‘no gentleman he’ accusation was justified. His ambition was not to be a gentleman but a king, and his purpose was to win. Therefore, when it suited that purpose, he used what today would be killed ‘guerrilla tactics’.
With, of course, that key element of ‘surprise’ …
And also the ability to pop up quickly, and disappear again just as quickly. Thereby giving the opponent the impression that he could strike anywhere, and at any time. Maybe making his enemies think he had far more forces than he actually had, and encouraging them to imagine that he could fight on several fronts at the same time. Which … maybe he could, and did; or maybe he couldn’t, and didn’t.
(‘Maybe aye, and maybe naw …’ to quote another Scottish player and strategist – albeit of a very different kind – who was also sometimes called a ‘king’!)
All this to say several things go together: the element of surprise … the ability to pop up everywhere … then hunker down again, only to pop up again, especially when least expected … the kind of guerrilla warfare and tactics that bewilders the enemy, and makes them wonder where the attack is going to come from next … the ability to move quickly, strike fast, inflict damage, withdraw, keep quiet for a moment, re-group, turn up again to strike home once more etc.
Doesn’t the independence movement need something like this? Translated into modern terms, of course. Sure, there can be these solidly organised political parties – also needed – but the grass-roots movement needs to be able to spring up all over the place and in different ways, at different times, and with all kinds of different people, to confuse the enemy and put them into disarray.
It can’t just be a monolith, which is so heavy that it can neither turn nor move. So committee-bound, so obvious and dull, so weighed down by so many deadening structures and heavy hands. Clanking around in the self-imposed armour that immobilises it, and makes it such a sitting target. A living movement can’t just be a monolith slugging it out with a behemoth. In round after round of ineffectual quasi-confrontation which never achieves any actual result.
OK, we need political parties etc. But we shouldn’t expect them to do it for us. Nor should we be surprised when they get infiltrated, or simply bogged down in the everyday mud. The independence movement needs people from all strata of society, whose political opinions may (and even should) be very different from each other, but all of whom are agreed on independence. This is needed even for the kind of independence we will get afterwards, if we want it to be genuinely democratic, open and adaptable and acceptable to everyone, inclusive of all.
In other words, if we want a people’s Scotland, we don’t want one political Party to control the whole thing, or the whole place, or the whole people anyway. It’s not the SNP’s cock-eyed version of Scotland that we are looking forward to, but the real Scotland. O’ a’ the airts and pairts.
The lumbering monolith that wants to control, dominate, stifle and destroy will get killed off in an independent Scotland. That’ll be the only way to prevent it from killing freedom stone dead. I think it’ll happen anyway, no matter how hard the control freaks at the top try to prevent it. What we are heading towards is Scotland re-born. That’s not going to be a still birth. If the New SNP is proving itself to be nothing more than an even worse imitation of the previous New Labour, then fine – its days are numbered.
It can’t keep its clammy dead hand on Scotland for ever, or even for long. Look at the terrain. Scotland just has too many corners. It’s too wild. The place is tailor-made for guerrilla warfare.
That should suit real Scots – of whatever stripe or origin. It’s the people – all kinds of Scottish people – that will gain Scotland’s independence. In that regard I am glad that it won’t, in the end, be achieved by the kind of people who weasle their way into political parties like the SNP, or whatever, and take charge of them. The kind of people who think they know better than everyone else, and who despise and seek simply to manipulate their own grassroots.
Away with them, such worthless people. Who have nothing to give, and nothing in them, yet they want to boss everyone else around. Filling their own inner void, their numbskull emptiness, with an illusion of power, all hot-air and self-importance.
In the end, after the initial shock, it is good that all this is being exposed. Scotland is ours, not theirs. Scotland is the people’s, no matter what kind of new-minted puffed-up birkie tries to take it over, from one generation to the next. They won’t be able to control it. They can’t win pitched battles. Just like the behemoth couldn’t beat Bruce and his guerrilla tactics.
Unlike Bruce, we’re non-violent. But we are still waging a war – albeit by non-violent means. And, like him, we’re having to wage it against enemies within, as well as enemies without. And, like him, we are determined to win, and will do so.
The enemy can’t control the terrain – too wild, too unpredictable, too many fronts at one time, too diverse (too many nooks and crannies, too many crags and waterfalls, too many mountains and lochs and great barren slopes and lush green grass, glens and escarpments and islands galore and everything you can and can’t imagine: there’s just too much of it, this diversity) – and, for all the same reasons, they can’t beat the people. They just can’t.
Sure, it’s been continually suppressed, and the crones of modernity’s current chronic ‘mono-chronia’ are doing everything they can to shut it all down again. But they can’t succeed, they just can’t. That diversity always springs back. You can’t keep the lid on it – or, rather, if and when you can, it’s only for so long, until suddenly it all boils over.
The terrain just doesn’t let you do that. It’s unquenchable, that terrain. And so, too, the people of that terrain. In the end, you can’t keep them down. Whether you’re jumped-up, self-styled so-called sophisticates in Whitehall or Westminster, or half-baked brain-dead Scottish birkies who have greased their way up to the top of the SNP gumtree, or other mini-miniscule politicians who have insincerely stuffed themselves into Holyrood seats and sinecures – no matter who you are, you just can’t!
I am beginning to see the current implosion – I should say ‘implosions’, because they are everywhere, and in all directions – as maybe the best thing possible. Isn’t the shattering of illusions – always painful at the time – also ultimately beneficial? Couldn’t it be so in this very case?
The shattering of illusions gives you a jolt into the strong fresh air of reality. The newborn babe cries and screams as it comes crashing out of its locked-down comfort zone into the real world. Yet the real world is where the babe belongs, the theatre in which to act out their existence. Maybe what is happening really is – at long last – that re-birthing of the Scottish people. A re-birthing which has so long and so often threatened, and whose moment has now come.
After what must be one of the longest gestation periods in human history. We never actually died but, for the greater part of humanity, we have been posted missing for a long time. We were presumed dead, but now we are alive.
Time to reappear, Scotland. The stage – the world stage – is waiting for us.
Here is a correction to my previous post:
In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics'”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”
Daisy
It was so moving I didn’t watch all of it. I’ll be back to it later. And what a voice you have.
Wull , a massive YES to all of that . Spot-on
@ Daisy Walker at 5:11 pm
First Class
Breeks,
I think I gave the wrong impression by saying ‘that man’ when talking about Ian Blackford – it was a bit derogatory, and right enough I’m not impressed by him – but I really meant that a grassroots movement shouldn’t need endorsed by any politician.
I really have lost any kind of trust in the SNP, and any group being endorsed by any of their politicians would just make me think,,, they were getting rounded up. They aren’t going to address an assembly by saying ‘we have control of you now’,,, well, I don’t think so anyway. But the whole thing is a bit too ‘establishment’, and next people will be worrying about what they say in case it’s the ‘wrong thing’ and saying things like ‘imagine what the newspapers would say’. And there we go, another lot gone down the sell-out path. We need something different, maybe lots of different things.
Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry will be up to something – they are politicians after all, so they must be. It’s most likely to do with jostling for power in the party, maybe something else, who knows. But I also noted they’ve backed off a bit.
I no longer recognise Westminster as a legitimate ruling authority in Scotland, so I don’t give a shit who they shun or don’t shun. But, yeah people. People still listen to them, and the SNP. Unfortunately you are right about the Constitutional Convention being too radical for people too. Let’s face it, eating cold pizza for breakfast is too radical for most of the people in Scotland, so we really are going to be stymied on the best ideas just by most folks’ idea of what’s ‘acceptable’.
Wull 7.47pm
“Here is a correction to my previous post:
In the 7th paragraph: NOT “killed ‘guerrilla tactics’”, of course, but “called ‘guerrilla tactics’.”
No need wull, I fell asleep during the 6th…
Boom Boom!!!
Wull (at 7.47 pm)
Well.
Absolutely spot on. And very well said.
What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.
Mm-hmm, guerrilla tactics.
@Daisy Walker,
i remember watching Benn`s speech,
disgusting as it was i could tell it would play well to the deluded lovers of the Great Brutish Empire,
always makes me sick when i see Benn get up in parliament espousing socialist values,
his hands are as bloody as the pilot of the war plane or pilot of the deadly drone,
anyhoo,
thought the lyrics and the singing were powerful as was the video.
Thank you very very much, Daisy Walker, and also Graeme. For that very moving video, which is beautifully put together. A beautiful song, and beautifully sung: so very true, and so very sad. Thank you, truly.
And thank you to Scot Finlayson, for giving us the link, as posted above at 5.38. Everyone should watch and listen to this.
Graeme, We seem to be getting a few good reviews – and I mean it when I say it didn’t happen without you!
There are moves afoot.
Would you like to do a couple more? You have one song already… Welsh Sion, if you are listening We need Wales and Wales needs this next song… To the tune of ‘what a friend we have in Jesus”
What’s the point in voting Labour
Labour only will abstain
except when claiming their expenses
then these troughers known no shame
They were only flipping houses
They were only starting wars
Not a Socialist among them
Sold out for the House of Lords
===
Welsh Sion…the Scots had a very steep learning curve. If you guys can learn it quick, lighting fast quick… the old adage that the BritNats always divide and conquer, becomes their own medicine.
We’ve always told our English neighbours we can still be friends. But see when it comes to the Welsh and the Irish We are family.
Please let them know of the above video Bombing is the London Way… I am well aware that the figure 26:13 and the term Cannon Fodder, applies just as much for the Welsh and the Irish and the Geordies .
A good song has no borders, only hearts.
One bit of decency at a time folks. It has started.
Contrary says:
1 November, 2020 at 8:29 pm
Wull (at 7.47 pm)
Well.
Absolutely spot on. And very well said.
What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.
To be honest, I only know the word from Burns, in the third verse of A Man’s a Man for A’ That’:
Contrary says:
1 November, 2020 at 8:29 pm
Wull (at 7.47 pm)
Absolutely spot on. And very well said.
What are birkies though? I can guess from context, but don’t know the term.
Many thanks, Contrary, and thanks also to others for their comments too.
In answer to your question, I know the word ‘birkie’ only from Burns. It occurs in one of the verses of ‘A Man’s a Man for A’ That’, as follows:
Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord,
Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
He’s but a coof for a’ that:
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
His ribband, star, an’ a’ that:
The man o’ independent mind
He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.
Knowing it only from that verse, the word always had thoroughly negative connotations for me. Looking round the internet to answer your question, some dictionaries seem to make it more neutral, or even potentially positive, but I don’t know if they are right.
Someone more knowledgeable than me might put us right on that. Is it always negative, like I had presumed? Or can it sometimes be positive?
One dictionary said it meant an ‘assertive man’, which I suppose you can take negatively or positively, as you wish, depending on context.
Yet surely the best known use of the word is now in that verse from Burns, which makes it entirely negative. The kind of ‘assertion’ Burns is referring to is obviously inflated, jumped-up, unfounded pretentiousness, so nothing good about it.
Thanks to Burns, ‘birkie’ will always have that negative connotation for me.
Thank you Daisy
I have a copy of the Labour song, I’ve had a listen and I have a few ideas I’ll go over them with you and see what we come up with 🙂
@Wull (7.47) –
What you’re saying there seems to be tapping into a general feeling that things are about to go fuckin pear-shaped in general.
And that’s okay.
Because in the comments on this thread alone we can see individual projects and collaborations producing results. Daisy/Graeme, others getting together over at livejournal.com. I suspect we all know other folk who are working on their own stuff, perhaps never coming near here.
Rev Stu said, just a couple of days ago, btl, that he may chuck it depending on how things pan out with the FM, the harassment inquiry etc. And that’s fair enough. It would be horrible if this place shut down but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. It would, however, make it quite difficult to locate each other!
So this may be a good time for all of us to consider what it is we really value in terms of shared interests, and how we can keep the ‘Wingers’ vibe going beyond the life of this place. What Daisy and Graeme have done is an example.
We can all – individually – act towards the same goal: ‘Unity chops elephants’ an aw that.
😉
Ronald Fraser @ 8.12
I hope you enjoyed your wee nap. Sorry about the delayed effect: the sixth was quite far …
Sorry to disappoint but nobody is going to be reducing the size of the NEC anytime soon. I am being told all resolutions on that topic and other constitutional issues have been handed to the recently established Keith Brown enquiry which has to report before Conference 2021,
So the Woke place folk have been handed a free pass for another year at least. Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.
D & G earlier, that’s so true and well done the pair of you. I’ve sent it off to a few folks earlier tonight.
and
How refreshing to have a day without the never ending deluge of you know what. I really hope it continues.
I said the above a wee bit before.
I rattled it off the cuff.
But I’m looking at it again with a cool head and … it is so true.
A good song knows no borders – only hearts.
… Underneath the arches,,, da da da da de da
la, la la la la……la, la la, la la
Me and Maralyne Detriech.. we knew. Us n’ Cactus;)
birkie [?b?rk?, ?b?rk?, ?b?rk?]
n. A lively, a plucky little fellow.
pl. birkies Fine fellows, lads of parts
adj. Lively, spirited. Sharp or tart in speech.
Source: link to scots-online.org
Thanks, Ian Brotherhood, @ 9.24.
I think you’re right. And you are certainly right about what Daisy and Graeme have done. They really could touch an awful lot of people with that, and deserves to.
I kind of work individually myself – haven’t much alternative, really (though, as well, that’s kind of my temperament too).
The important thing is not to despair. I do think something is budging all over the place. Like underwater springs suddenly appearing one after the other on the surface.
And we all know the power of water, once it gets going. True, there needs to be some channelling, but I am not too worried about it. I think what is happening underneath is a real force, and not a destructive one (except in the sense that it will destroy the Union).
So, let’s look on the bright side. At the same time, I do very much hope that Stuart Campbell will continue with this site, and with all the sterling work he puts in, to such good effect. I think Wings is hugely effective, much more than can be imagined or quantified.
That’s me done for the night. Keep up all the good work.
@ Scott Finlayson re Mr Benn
His Faither served in the Bombers planes during ww2.
Which is why AS said his father would be birlin in his grave.
Tony Benn – the fuck ( and I say that as one who admired him!) decent, kind hearted, moral, English Nationalist, Sort of Socialist – Fuck. The best he could come up with – to soften the blow, after all the oil was found in Scottish Waters, was that there should be a National Reserve set up (mostly for England of course) to soften the blow. But when push came to shove, or just whenever they had the chance, it was ENGLAND FIRST for every one of the little English Socialist brothers in arms.
Dennis Healey – also served active service in WW2, it changed him forever. Do not underestimate them, or what they lived through. Their parents, brothers, Uncles, Aunts, and every family they ever knew – all of them lived through WW1 and that changed everything.
As they clung to the wreckage, along came Hitler… and they (Ben and Healey) saw the destruction at first hand… but not just them, The Blitz forced the nobs into the tubes along with the working class… and both the trenches and the mobile nature of WW2 forced through Meritocracy – and rubbed their damned noses in it. And Meritocracy HAD TO BE FORCED.
It took 2 WORLD WARS to shame the fuckers into understanding that an NHS was the least , the very least they deserved.
And now they want to undo that… in about 5 – 10 years.
@Iain Lawson says:
1 November, 2020 at 9:25 pm
“Welcome to the new SNP. DEMOCRACY INACTION.”
I think you have given someone a new soundbite.
Better than Willie Rennie’s “sharp eyed focus” or whatever it was he said this morning.
@ wull at 9.20pm: When I was wee, an old auntie of mine from Kirkcaldy used to refer to me as a ‘wee birkie’. I always assumed it to be an affectionate term for a cheeky or boisterous child. Whatever, it was a word in common use in Fife two or three generations ago, if it isn’t now.
Watching, reading and listening from USA. Thank you Wull at 7.47pm 1 Nov, and Daisy Walker for the you tube video.
I have no words other than brilliant to both of you.
“What she read, all heady books
She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.
You know, I was just looking at Nicola Sturgeon’s Twitter account. The big main photo behind her profile pic is interesting. It’s a photo of what I would assume is her personal library, probably the one she was sat in front of during that mumbling fumbling word-stumbling car crash telly interview recently. If it is, it kind of shows us a couple of things:
She wants to be taken seriously as a bibliophile and ‘deep’ thinker, and showing us this photo betrays an odd sense of insecurity in her self-presentation. Or maybe she’s just proud of her oh-so-impressive book collection.
She alphabetises her books by the author’s name.
She has several volumes by Iain Banks, Val McDermid, Ian Rankin, and Christopher Brookmyre. All Scottish authors, three of the four doing murder/crime/detective work. Judging by that and other crime volumes in her library, random other Scottish stuff like Driftnet, by Lin Anderson, she likes dark-minded things.
And also…
It’s not hugely interesting to duck and dive out of her library, judging by the titles you can make out. Certainly has eclectic tastes, but who knows if that’s all her stuff, or something she had partly put together by some window-dresser? Ho-hum.
Confess, on a different note, that I am finding the state of Scottish politics, and the covid-coughing, coffin-counting country in general, to be pretty depressing. Might take a break for a while. Holding in the existential scream mourning, noon, and nightmare is getting to be pretty damned tiring.
Watched the Hunter S Thompson documentary Freak Power last night. Superb, if anybody’s interested.
Re birkie.. just a thought..
The English like to poetic like describe their men folk as ‘like an Oak’.
Burns aft wrote about the Birks (Silver Birch).
My guess would be ‘birkies’ refers to an upright, young ‘tree’ of a fellow, fine, bright and shiny.
An siller birkies are a slimmer tree (even at maturity) than oaks. Could it be its sort of a description of ‘bright, shiney, young things’ taking the floor.
In this day and age I think we’d call them ‘woke’.
@ Daisy Walker: I went to post the following comment on YouTube, but can’t without creating a ‘channel’, which I’ve no desire to do. My comment was, “Very moving and well done. It certainly puts things in perspective and shows Westminster for what it is.”
I’m not sure how much more misery people can take with things being as they are at present, but I think your video deserves to be seen far and wide.
Just had the opportunity to have a quick look at a draft copy of the SNP 2021 election manifesto.
Without giving too much away.. it’s just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right.
The ‘Dictionary of the Scots Language’ offers the following at:-
link to dsl.ac.uk
1. n.
(1) An active, smart, lively fellow, gen. young.
(2) A conceited fellow.
(3) (See quot.) Edb.3 1929; Edb.1 1934:
Birkie, a sharp-tongued, quick-tempered person (usually a woman). Sometimes used facetiously to a lively child. [Prob. connected with Birk, v.1, to give a tart answer.]
I’m only the messenger…
@BDTT, Daisy et al –
I’m wondering if Burns was mibbe using it as an equivalent to our ‘bawbag’?
@ Michael – Thank you.
Its the first time I’ve done YT. I’ve set it so no one can comment. The theory is if folk like it they will thumbs up and share.. and if they are Unionist trolls, they will not get a forum.
No intention to be rude, just realistic. Really glad you, and the other have, liked it.
@ Brian
Bawbag. I’m thinking Burns would have relished that word for its own worth.
Maybe straying into the territory. Who knows.
Well the Birks of Aberfeldy relates to the silver birches growing up the glen, and not the eejits in the toon…
ElGordo
‘SNP 2021 election manifesto’
More oppressive law to oppress ordinary folks?
More budget for COPFS and the polis?
More meaningless pleading for a S.30?
More state funded ‘jobs’ for the woke folk?
From the glossary in The Complete Illustrated Poems, Songs and Ballads of Robert Burns
birkie – a lively, young, forward fellow.
Daisy Walker – love your song/video – I shared it on Facebook page and someone else has posted it on the SNP Members for Independence page.
Tomorrow’s National twitter pages:-
link to mobile.twitter.com
Haha, thanks for all the answers on the meaning of birkies, I think I’m getting a good rounded idea of how the word can be used – I’d have said birches if it wasn’t for the context – a conceited fellow would seem like Burns’ use – and close to Wull’s. And I like the idea of young birch giving the idea of the ‘active, lively young fellow’.
‘Ye wee besom’ (pronounced bizzum of course) was what I was called when young – a pest, or a brush. Go figure, words eh!
ElGordo – did you take a sneaky photo of that draft referendum so we could all observe the unlikely nature of the draft referendum bill ever being used?
The English and their media just don’t get it and never will.
Watched the pride of Britain Awards on TV.
Lots of courageous kids doing the most selfless things
to help those I need and one incredible young girl who
Feeds the parents of hospitalised children struggling
with food costs away from home received her award fittingly
From footballer Marcus Rashford who fought for free meals
For deprived school kids.
Quite rightly Marcus was given an award too.
Who could be on next, Boris the bastard and his latest barer of
Offspring? Boris the man who is stopping the fee meals for deprived kids
and putting VAT back on all purchases of PPE kit.
Boris had the nerve to thank the NHS workers who he gave a 15% pay cut
By capping their salary for several years, stopped their training bursaries,
and cut their number by charging and repelling foreign NHS doctors and nurses.
I didn’t see 100% of the show but it looked like all recipients where English?
Well Britain is the other name for England and local colonies.
The BBC News bulletins, where you get news updates from England and in any other country in the world, every minute of the day.
(except if you live in Scotland, Wales or N Ireland).
And just to add Insult to injury, Scottish, Welsh and N Irish residents get sent to jail for refusing to pay the BBC to NOT broadcast a single word about their Nation over a 24 hour period,
And I mean not broadcast a single statement about any those three Nations, yet they still want you to pay the bastards.
Where else in the world does this happen?
@Alf Baird
It’s astounding, time is fleeting, madness takes it toll.
WhoRattledYourCage says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:09 pm
“What she read, all heady books
She’d sit and prophecise…” – The Smiths.
………
Don’t go for too long Mr Rattler – I enjoy reading you
Daisy Walker at 5:33.
Beautiful voice. Sad and powerful song. Brings home what Westminster is really about.
Watched without signing in to y’tube at link to nsfwyoutube.com
The sooner we’re out of this murderous union, the better.
Excellent effort, Daisy.
Don’t forget the ‘Ding Dong Dollar’, excellent song, reminds us that Trident is an excellent independence winner!
@Ronald Fraser says:
1 November, 2020 at 10:51 pm
“Tomorrow’s National twitter pages:-”
The article on Swinney caught my eye. I’m tempted to bet Scotland will be put into lockdown next week. Or will that be Tier 4? Fuck knows I’ve given up trying to fathom what is what. Just tell us what we can or cannot do.
He said: “Blair attacked the anti-Israelism that had existed in the Labour Party.” Blair told Levy, “I am absolutely determined that we must not go into the next election financially dependent on the trade unions.”
The trade off was to embrace “Zionism” which became the pervasive mantra of “New Labour”. The Labour Party became financially dependent on donors with strong views on Israel.
Lord Levy is estimated to have raised over £15m for the Labour Party and Blair before the “cash for peerages” ended Levy’s illegal fundraising in the summer of 2006.
link to caltonjock.com
@ Graeme, Daisy and bittie45: excellent piece of work and performance, thank you, Graeme and Daisy, and a good idea to post it so no trolling is possible. And many thanks bittie45 for giving an easy link for non-techs like me!
Beaker 12.21am
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
@Ronald Fraser says:
2 November, 2020 at 12:47 am
Beaker 12.21am
“Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!”
As the actress said to the bishop, ‘Oh yes…’ 🙂
THANK YOU Graeme, Daisy and Wull you all are part of the reason why people come to Stu’s site, the education , empathy , compassion and the TRUTH, no matter how many times people denigrate , abuse and castigate Stu’s language or abrasive manner one thing he cannot be criticised for is the truth and facts of his journalism
Compare and contrast the daily excretions taking place re our independence party and their minions , then ask yourself do we really, really want these imbecilic woke parasites being placed in OUR government to determine our and our countries future
SNP members MUST MAKE A STAND and ensure that these self serving parasites are NOT chosen at selection to enable their party to regroup and renew their obligation to independence, for I for one will not vote for this RABBLE
It’s heartening to see that we have SNP NEC members soo dedicated to independence that they hide there names. What a bunch of idiots and saferoom dopes. Unbelievable NEC what a joke either stands up and be counted or drop out for someone with real passion an Dedication.
Yes I am an SNP Menber
Big week ahead with Brexit, the US election, Covid stuff, etc…. time to revert to the usual gallows humour as a way of coping with being helpless spectators on matters that massively impact our lives. The usual.
The charade of pretending to be in control when it comes to covid-19 has caught up with ‘us’ it seems. They’re talking about denying us the cash we needs to keep the charade going. But even if we are forced to join England and do lockdown on their terms, the fake lockdown measures we have in place are showing no sign of working anyway.
It’s the usual lose-lose situation for us, no matter what, just as it has been on Brexit and everything else since 2014.
There’s a formula in all this that you can use to predict outcomes with. It’s easy. In any given situation, all you need to do is imagine the shittiest outcome possible for Scotland and that’s invariably the one that the SNP will secure.
“But look at the polls… what about the polls?”
You know what they’ll say if they win the election next year? They’ll say it proves people want GRA and the Hate Crime Bill. And they’ll say it means people loved the Section 30 strategy.
See how it works? Lose-Lose every time – even when your team wins.
-Daisy Walker-
Your video is very true. It is foreign policy which is Westminster’s real sin. The fact they think they have the right to bomb and kill whoever they like. Truly evil people. Good on you.
-Hatuey-
Keep your chin up, what goes up, must come down, and what goes around does eventually come around.
Aye, Hatuey,
It’s grim. It looks bleak. It’s best not too think too hard about about it except for any fight-back strategies. You shouldn’t be thinking these things at 4am, not good for a restful sleep (depends where you are in the world of course!).
As for the SNP – for me it’s ‘no, no, never, no more’ . They don’t get rewarded for being such massive arseholes. They have gone beyond any kind of redemption – they would have to restructure substantially before I’d consider them an option in any voting booth ever again. I will consider any way forward to get independence, as long as it doesn’t involve them, their lies, their deception.
4th of November is the start of our s.30 judicial review though – Martin Keatings suggests the Lord Advocate’s team (for Scottish Parliament,,, and ministers) may open some more people’s eyes to how resistant to independence the SNP (in government) are. I don’t think I’ll get a chance to dial in unfortunately.
The crowdjustice fund by the women & childrens group to fight back against the Scottish government for redefining ‘woman’ in legislation is near it’s target last I looked (£60000), which is good, I hope they are successful.
Independence won’t be won in any courts though.
Dear Prince William,
Sorry to hear that you and 50 million others had
Contracted the Covid virus.
You need not have worried about revealing you had it
for fear of causing great concern to the general public,
99% of us are more troubled by our families health, job
security and Brexit.
Just keep your hands in the public purse and living in your freshly
Painted Ivory Tower and you’ll be just fine.
@Confused 11.00: to add to your collection, there’s a Birkies’ Linn at Millhouse, East Kilbride parish. I’m presuming it was a swimming-hole or for the local lads in its simplest meaning.
Sorry, that should have been to Contrary. I suppose in the winter they might have used the linn for curling.
Hear hear Effigy, I couldn’t care less whether William had covid or not. Nothing about that family interests me except their drain on the public purse.
Contrary says:
2 November, 2020 at 7:23 am
“…Independence won’t be won in any courts though.”
Maybe not, but Constitutional Sovereignty can, and must, be defended in a Court. At the UN most vitally, but also at the Council of Europe, so we carry the sanction Europe along with us.
Once Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty is properly respected as legal and extant, which it is, the UK’s Brexit becomes an act of Scotland’s unconstitutional and unlawful subjugation; the imposition of one nations colonial objectives upon another.
That act of subjugation hobbles the EU, which is bound by it’s own Constitution to respect International Law and Treaties between Nations, and thus the EU could not sanction Brexit without the EU sanctioning Scotland’s unlawful subjugation. IF WE MOVE FAST,, I still believe Scotland can disrupt the UK’s orderly Brexit and throw the whole process into turmoil.
The ONLY way out of that turmoil and purgatory, and it’s turmoil the UK cannot endure, so we will have their undivided attention, is to reconcile the log jam, the unconstitutional subjugation of Scotland; the fish bone stuck in the throat of Brexit.
Thus, we have no Brexit conclusion indefinitely, or, a Constitutional impasse which needs to be resolved pitching the written Constitutional Sovereignty of Scotland versus the unwritten Sovereign Convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. Scotland holds the winning cards in such a dispute.
So I agree Contrary, we cannot win Independence in a Court case, but we can change the whole political landscape and ask ourselves whether we want to be Independent against a very different backdrop, whereby Scotland can veto Brexit indefinitely, or where the Treaty of Union has already collapsed because the English part of the UK proceeded to exit Europe without Scotland’s consent.
Brexit is where Scotland wins. If we have to bulldoze the stupid SNP out of the way to do it, then crank up the Caterpillar, and let’s get started.
Come on Joanna Cherry, are you with us or against us, because you KNOW this has to be done. Perhaps nobody is better placed to steer that ‘smart’ bulldozer with pinpoint accuracy and minimum colateral damage than you are.
Come on Joanna. Let’s finish 2020 in style, and a right gid new year.
In fact, when I think about it, IF Holyrood under Sturgeon is so absolutely determined to be the inferior of Westminster, then in Constitutional terms, where would that put a united caucas of Scottish MP’s if THEY chose to assert Brexit was unconstitutional subjugation, irrespective of what Sturgeon said?
Breeks,
Very good points. But, you also point out the problem – the political will is not there. We should defend our right to self determination, to be independent, everywhere, at all times – not just in the courts, each and every one of us should assert it – and that does matter – you say it often enough, to enough people, it becomes normal…
I’ve been thinking of bulldozers lately too, and I think it’s the best tool for the job here as you say Breeks. I’m fed up of the nit-picking – it would be preferable to just remove all obstacles in one go. It might leave a vacuum to be filled by more obstacles, but if we become efficient at the bulldozing, we might get the message across eventually.
link to caltonjock.com
SNP NOMINATION RECOMMENDATIONS IN BOLD.
colin @9.18am.
Thank you for the link Colin, an interesting read, so the woke within the SNP/NEC have finally as of this month, accomplished their nefarious deeds of stacking the candidacies, with like minded folk.
Thanks to all who commented on the Video
link to nsfwyoutube.com
Glad you liked it.
Will try and get more done.
I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.
OT Re 24/7 presence at key sites. Looks like we may go into full lock down soon – and you can bet we will if Indy looks close.
Plan Z should be mobile. Cars going past Holyrood tooting their horns. People walking in front of it (to exercise of course) at 2 meter distance (we use this, to our advantage, so instead of the need for large numbers to look impressive, we form a 2 meter people ‘chain’. Cyclists for Yes do the same.
And we get visible in every street, and every city and village, utilising the pedestrian crossing /lollypop demo. Pick Days of Action for this.
Other days, pick the schools that have lost their school crossing patrol and do it there. (will need 2 people for this – to ensure no malicious complaints). Other than the Lollypop /Sign there would be no campaigning with the children… but we can speak to the parents after. Demonstrate a good example.
Just some thoughts. Since the nights are drawing in, and lockdown may be imminent posters and billboards become much more important.
So too there is a potential for the New Indy logo to be in a Hi Viz waistcoat item…. to wear when walking the dog.
So what is the New Plebiscite Indy Vote Symbol going to be folks. We can’t use the YES one as that indicates a Neverendum/Neveraskem policy.
OT Interesting the things you learn, ‘specially when folk do not remove you from their Data Base as requested….’ At the last GE 19 – the SNP campaigners did NOT gather voter ID info (about where the voter is on the YES scale). That was before lockdown/Covid. The SNP machine used to be a UK leader for gathering this type of info. Now, it appears they don’t want to know. They will not be gathering voter ID for Holyrood either, but this is more in keeping with Covid precautions.
As I said before, campaigning now, with partial or full covid lockdown, is going to require ripping up the old methods, and creating new ones. Ones in which the Yes movement are far more inventive than the Unionists. We have an advantage folks – we really do.
Unionists are going to have to rely on the Media (already reached saturation point) posted leaflets (boring and go in the bin) and Social Media (misses an important chunk of key voters – i.e. the elderly).
One thing they will do is bring out the media guns against NS and co nearer the time of the HE.
When that happens, we need to have ensured the voters understand that HE is plebiscite vote for Indy and be prepared to vote for candidates to sign up for it. At that time, – depending on polls – I would expect SNP candidates being prepared to stand down from the SNP and go for election on this issue. Their script – very sad, I never left the SNP, the SNP left me, Time to put the Country First’
In areas with Woke Candidates for the SNP – we will need proper electable local candidates. And they will have to campaign right from about now to get voter recognition in view of Covid restrictions.
Thats it for now folks. Cheerie.
Fine song beautifully sung + powerful and moving accompanying video = superb piece of artistic agitprop . Well done to you both
This is the current SNP NEC:
National Executive Committee
President
Ian Hudghton
Leader
Nicola Sturgeon
Depute Leader
Keith Brown
National Treasurer
Colin Beattie
National Secretary
Angus MacLeod
Business Convener
Kirsten Oswald
Organisation Convener
Stacy Bradley
Local Government Convener
Ellen Forson
Policy Development Convener
Alyn Smith
Member Support Convener
Douglas Daniel
Women’s Convener
Rhiannon Spear
Equalities Convener
Fiona Robertson
BAME Convener
Graham Campbell
Disabled Members’ Convener
Morag Fulton
Ordinary Members (Parliamentarians)
Tommy Sheppard
Alison Thewliss
Regional Members
Lynne Anderson (Central Scotland)
Cameron McManus (Central Scotland)
Christina Cannon (Glasgow)
Alexander Kerr (Glasgow)
Laura Mitchell (Highlands & Islands)
Munro Ross (Highlands & Islands)
Roz Currie (Lothian)
Andy Diack (Lothian)
Rhuaraidh Fleming (Mid Scotland & Fife)
Mireille Pouget (Mid Scotland & Fife)
Christian Allard (North East Scotland)
Dorothy Jessiman (North East Scotland)
Heather Anderson (South Scotland)
Rob Davidson (South Scotland)
Emma Hendrie (West Scotland)
Robert Innes (West Scotland)
Representatives from the Parliamentary Groups, the Association of Nationalist Councillors and Affiliated Organisations also sit on the National Executive Committee.
The talk of wings shuttering is deeply depressing.
If the reverend is exhausted, I can understand.
His output and inquiries post twitter ban have been surgically required and far more germaine.
I think the comments have got better as well.
To quote johnny rico:
“We are in it for the species”
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!
The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.
We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.
Mandy Rhodes, editor of Holyrood magazine:
link to holyrood.com
@Daisy Walker says:
2 November, 2020 at 9:45 am
“I have just received an e-mail from the SNP – who obtained it from their activate account. Which is naughty, as I asked to be removed from it several years ago when I left the party. Data Protection… not so much so.”
Tell them that under GDPR legislation you want your details removed within 72 hours (reasonable time) and written confirmation that this has been done, otherwise you will report them to Information Commissioner’s Office.
That will – should – cause a rapid response. If they confirm the removal, keep the email in case you receive further comms in the future.
Nominees for SNP internal elections:
According to Calton Jock, these are the nominees who are the pro-independence nominees (not Woke).
Conferences Committee (open list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination:
Deadline: 13/11/2020
Corri Wilson, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Joan Hutcheson, Kenny MacLaren,
Munro Ross, Rory Steel, Kirsteen Currie
————————————————————————————–
Conferences Committee (all female list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Corri Wilson, Delia Henry, Joan Hutcheson, Kirsteen Currie, Catriona MacDonald.
—————————————————————————————
Policy Development Committee – Outwith Scotland – Requests for Nomination:
Deadline: 13/11/2020
Gordon Millar
—————————————————————————————–
National Secretary – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
David Henry, Kirsteen Currie.
——————————————————————————————-
National Treasurer – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Douglas Chapman.
———————————————————————————————
President – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Craig Murray, Corri Wilson.
———————————————————————————————–
BAME Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Sameeha Rehman
———————————————————————————————–
Disabled Members’ Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Dylan Roberts.
————————————————————————————————
Equalities Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Lynne Anderson.
————————————————————————————————
Local Government Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Lynne Anderson,
———————————————————————————————–
Member Support Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Susan Katherine Sanders.
————————————————————————————————
Policy Development Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Chris Hanlon, Graeme McCormick,
————————————————————————————————
Women’s Convener – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Delia Henry, Caroline McAllister, Susan Katherine Sanders, Caroline Keenan.
————————————————————————————————
Elected Parliamentarian – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Joanna Cherry, Neale Hanvey,
————————————————————————————————
Member Conduct Committee (9 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Amanda Burgauer, , Cynthia Guthrie, Chris Hanlon, Delia Henry, Munro Ross, Susan Katherine Sanders,
Ellen McMaster, Caroline McAllister, Lynne Anderson, Corri Wilson.
————————————————————————————————–
Appeals Committee (7 members) – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Amanda Burgauer, Robert Thompson, Caroline McAllister.
————————————————————————————————–
Mid Scotland And Fife – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Roger Mullin: Womens List: Allison Graham.
—————————————————————————————————
West of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Chris McEleny, Brian Lawson,
—————————————————————————————————
Lothians – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Catriona MacDonald, Susan Katherine Sanders, Robert de Bold, Frank Anderson.
————————————————————————————————–
Central Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline:13/11/2020
John Green
————————————————————————————————–
South of Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
William Mills
————————————————————————————————–
Highlands and Islands – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Laura Mitchell
————————————————————————————————–
North East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Dot Jessiman, Ciaran McRae, Kate Monaghan.
————————————————————————————————–
South East Scotland – Requests for Nomination: Deadline: 13/11/2020
Cynthia Guthrie, Morgan Davies
————————————————————————————————
Who are the Glasgow nominees who are indy? ( not woke).
Alf – You are absolutely correct.
You do not appeal to the country you are trying to secede from to request their consent. Otherwise not one nation in the world would ever have done so.
You win an election. You then tell your own people that you will carry out their mandate as requested. What the other country does is up to them.
The mistake we are making here is allowing Westminster decide if, when and how our country will proceed. That’s not sovereignty. That’s serfdom.
SNP members voting guide:
1. Go to: link to my.snp.org (and login)
2. Click on: ELECTIONS at top of page
3. Select: Nominations: View
4. Click on “Nominate” beside your selections until it changes to “Remove nomination”. When it has changed from “nominate” to “remove nomination” that means you have made your nomination.
Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.
It’s got “SNAFU” written all over it 🙁
Good stuff Colin Alexander.
I was just going to blog in to road map how SNP members can nominate their choices for party positions.
Maybe Rev Stu could do a piece, if he agrees, on why Craig Murray would make an excellent SNP President. The ex diplomat – ambassador has all the skills and more and all backed up by a total commitment to democracy and fairness.
And maybe, some of the more computer savvy members could either through targeted emails or physical instruction assist less able technophobes to vote.
If we want to take back control, get our SNP back we all need to play our part.
Off topic, yet highly topical
link to unherd.com
“Islamophobic” or is Tom Holland simply stating the facts without benefit of counterfeit tones of light and shade?
In this, as in so many current issues, time to to call a halt to the antics of establishment kidders and their deceits.
Someone on twitter heard a rumour, no confirmation, or evidence, that the NEC plus Murrell will be counting the nominations.
I kept my SNP membership so I could bite to get rid of sturgeon when the time came.
I want to vote for craig murray but have had nothing through the post or email saying I can vote.
Should I call HQ or will I likely be fobbed off?
A h….. colin Alexander, I should have read you post above before my last entry.
Sorry……..
Just a couple of things
Corri Wilson? Has she got her name up for everything?
From memory A few on here didn’t speak highly of her,
Plus the NA hustings,….I question Why the candidates DIDN’T go ahead? While the papers are tending to lead with the “bullying ” following the Gibson narrative only
Has it been decided for Gibson already ? I merely ask
Craig Murray? Up front IMO an excellent choice, as they say “a cut above the rest”
Again if memory is correct he got scuppered by I think the NEC , and others in standing for 2015 election
I might suggest that was very early on in the “Sturgeon Reformation” in the picking of candidates
Alf Baird says:
2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
I wrote to her about that and her ‘Chief of Staff’ replied with the usual party line about the S.30 referendum ‘gold standard’ nonsense, and recommending I read the paper by McCorkindale & McHarg (2020). Incidentally the latter paper states that a referendum is not even in law a requirement for independence!
The traditional view in Scotland is that a majority of Scotland’s MP’s may lawfully withdraw Scotland from the union. They should do so now, then it won’t be hypothetical any longer and if any unionist is daft enough to take the matter to a UK court they will find that either Scotland is indeed a sovereign nation OR our colonial status will be verified.
We could do with some clarity on Scotland’s constitutional status and rights rather than simply depend on all this ‘gold standard’ referendum waffle which has no place in law. But I doubt Ms Cherry is the one to do it.
What you say is both clarifing and worrying.
Clarifing: Are we are union of nations or not.
Worrying: Can we address our position lawfully if the answer is not.
56% and rising, we can redress our position.
Every day and every interaction should refer to margaret thatcher:
“All they have to do is have a majority in westminster”
@ Liz at 11:42 am
Would you be surprised? Might I suggest MacCann
&
@ Lothianlad at 11:52 am
“fobbed off”
Craig Murray has a tread up on the machinations of Murrell, and Police Scotland and the Crown Office, and his up and coming court appearance.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
@Tom, 10.38am
Thanks for the link to the article by Mandy Rhodes. “chaotic kaleidoscope of incompetence” is a good summary of the picture so far. Further digging by the Committee is required to find what lies below this surface.
Republicofscotland @12:40
Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.
Sturgeon latest on coronavirus is that she is thinking of locking down Scotland, whether we need to it not, because England are going into lockdown and that will trigger 80% furlough.
This furlough will only last four weeks,,,so Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer.
Sounds crazy, but it is very real.
Scotland has no borrowing powers, so she as to take this furlough when it is available.
Independence would give us the powers to borrow for ourselves, but Sturgeon has avoided mentioning the I word.
Complicated to explain this in writing,,,
In short, we are being forced into an unnecessary lock down because England hold all the money.
@Breeks, 8.09, @Alf Baird 10.32
Yes, we have to move fast. Ms Cherry’s successful court case was won on the principles of Scots Law which is based on the sovereignty of the people. If the talk is of a gold standard, surely the gold standard is not s30 but United Nations Resolution 1514 (XV) approved 14 December 1960
All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
Also Article 1.2 of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development
“The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.”
@ Ronald Fraser
Not really that complicated. Just that Scotland can’t do what’s appropriate for Scotland’s people and it’s economy whilst tethered to the U.K.
It also drives a coach and horses through Andrew Wilson and Charlotte st partners plan to use sterling. Under that regime we still wouldn’t be able to do what was right when it was right due to having to use someone else’s currency.
Scottie dog 1.26
Yes Scottie, I think she has to get an answer later on today on whether Scotland can go in to lock down at any time of our chosing, with the assurance that the 80% furlough will be paid for by Westminster.
test message – my last post vanished
The Scots pound is good enough for me. To hell with Sterling. Let England sink and close the border.
kapelmeister says:
2 November, 2020 at 1:05 pm
Republicofscotland @12:40
Wow! Evidence, says Craig, of the SNP high command driving the conspiracy against Salmond, with the police showing some reluctance. There has to be a judge led inquiry. Nothing less is good enough.
A judge led inquiry would achieve little more. Remember Dunblane!!! Any inquiry needs to be chaired by a trusted person of authority from outwith the UK.
The closest we got to justice is the time an investigation was led by a Canadian into the Holyrood election debacle created by Douglas Alexander and the Labour Party who tried to prevent the election of an SNP government by combining two voting systems on the same day.
Susan xx 1.38
I have the same dreams Susan.
Don’t worry Susan, England is sinking fast.
We need to break all ties ASAP.
stonefree. The voting papers for selection of Cunninghame North Candidate will be go out in next couple Of weeks. The hustings yesterday only had one of the three candidates as the two challengers refused to share a platform with the incumbent Gibson whilst Bullying allegation Investigations against him were ongoing.
This clusterfuck is entirely at Hq’s door who have ignored written allegations from 11 people for around 18 months. They only took action when the were shamed into by the issue being “leaked” to the press. Previously they only response from HQ as that the allegations would be looked at during candidate selection vetting. (it wasnt) Currently the situation in the Constituency is that 5 of the seven SNP Councillors in North Ayrshire and 4 of six branches are not on speaking terms with Gibson.
This was all conveyed to HQ multiple times, the last i think being June 2019 .
Its unlikely that these investigations will be completed until after the selection of the Candidate,
Its not fair to any of them including Ken Gibson to have the selection done when this investigation is going on.
Like the NEC there needs to be a clear out at HQ.
OT the video Graeme and I created now shows as ‘unavailable’. No idea how (fairly sure of the why and the who).
You Tube have not notified me – which they did the day before to tell me the video was ‘age restricted’ which was ironic since I had already made it so…
I’m full of the cold at the moment, and cannot work bloody computers on a good day.
……
No not surprised. Ever since McCann collated the votes over whether or not to block MPs, ie Joanna Cherry, from selection and collated the votes for the WC, where Spears came from behind to win, I don’t trust the counts at all.
Craig Murrays latest article about the Alex Salmnd stitch up is really something.
And so far, he has not been wrong.
Police notified SNP Highups that there was not enough evidence to charge on at least some of the complaints.
SNP High up said, ask them what they need and we’ll get it for them…
Two things spring to mind, firstly that the Police did not cross a line. If they had done, the first word of insufficient evidence would never have happened, and in the second, if they went on to do so, it would have been a very different trial.
Colin Alenxander @11:06am
Sometimes you might need to click it several times before it changes.
You should probably not do that. When you click on a button your web browser will send the request immediately. That you are not getting a response right away either means that the SNP server is slow and decrepit or is overloaded. Assuming each click toggles the state from “nominate” to “remove nomination” and back again then if you click it a lot you might end up with your nomination removed unless you wait long enough to be sure the server has recorded your choice.
Imagine if you will, Mr. Murrell sitting there next to the server unplugging and plugging in the network cables over and over while laughing out loud, “Oh no, another few votes for Craig Murray, gone forever, muahahahaha!”
cirsium @ 1.16
Arguably the two best routes to independence (as are noted in my 2020 book ‘Doun Hauden: The Socio-Political Determinants of Scottish Independence’) are:
– the majority of Scotland’s MP’s UK withdrawal route;
OR, if Scotland is lawfully deemed to be a territory/colony of England, the ToU a meaningless charade, and ‘Scottish sovereignty’ non existent, then proceed:
– Via a Listing on the UN List of Colonies to be decolonized (i.e. C-24, The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial Countries and Peoples.)
In the event of the latter judgment, which I consider highly unlikely, I would love to see the ‘proud Scots’ ‘unionists’ among us deal with the revelation that no such union exists and that Scotland is a daft wee colony ruled by England.
” Sturgeon is thinking of locking down Scotland just to get the 80% while it is on offer… Sounds crazy, but it is very real.”
It’s not crazy, not if you apply the right filter
The dominant consideration and goal from the start was to harness it and use it to boost Sturgeon’s personal approval ratings. That’s what everything has been about since 2014; short-termist, opportunistic, narrow-minded, amateurish as fuck, crap.
The corona-crisis could have been handled honestly and, without even trying, it would have been a massive boon to the argument for independence.
Instead it’s a confused and mangled mess, the sort of mess you’d find if a fox got into a chicken coup. Except that it isn’t really confused, not if you look at it from the point of view of the fox.
The same thing happened with Brexit; on one hand we were to wait to see what deal the UK brokered before going for a referendum, on the other we were to “STOP BREXIT”.
On the face of it it’s confused and contradictory but it isn’t really; apply the filter – short-termist, opportunistic, approval-ratings-driven, amateurish crap – and it all makes perfect sense.
Can any one clear up a point. I am arging with this person on FB at the moment over the question…….Does Nicola sturgeon have any say on the appointment or reappointment of a civil servant such as Leselie Evans
As long as many Scots are like this.
As sure as hell we’ll end up with this.
link to qph.fs.quoracdn.net
@ Rob at 2.25
This is a few years old, but does answer at least the first half of your question:
link to gov.scot
Alf Baird says:
2 November, 2020 at 10:32 am
Breeks @ 8.09
Regret Ms Cherry by her actions seems more interested in testing the matter of UK parliamentary sovereignty than the sovereignty of the Scottish people she purports to represent.
Well, I’d agree that she’s not going about it they way I would, but she’s the lawyer and I’m not. I like to think she’s just getting warmed up… But, I don’t know, maybe I’m too optimistic.
However, I would also point out that in the United Kingdom Union, proving the UK Parliament is NOT sovereign is tantamount to proving that Scotland is. Or rather, affirming that Scotland’s Constitution is extant, and that Constitution makes the Scottish people sovereign. – The same ‘sovereign’ people who said No to Brexit by emphatic democratic majority in 2016.
Both Ian Blackford and Joanna Cherry have said this much, while speaking in the Westminster Chamber. So I think we have to trust they do have a grasp of the situation, but it’s now so late in the day that doing anything at this point is going to be a white knuckle ride.
The thing is, December marks the expiry of the Transition Agreement, and that feels like a watershed change of circumstance. However, Scotland has technically been Brexited and out of Europe since Sturgeons Capitulation speech last January… So if we are intending to challenge the Constitutional legitimacy of Brexit and Scotland’s unlawful subjugation, it is already a challenge in retrospect, and this December is just December.
But having said that, I do believe a Constitutional dispute of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty lodged before the Transition Period expires will, I think, function like a last minute reprieve for a blindfolded prisoner in front of the firing squad, because it will prevent the EU from signing off on Brexit.
Unfortunately, there’s another niggle in my head which goes back to Article 50, and if the clock runs out to negotiate a Brexit by consensus, then exit from Europe happens by default. The Brexit firing squad might not open fire, but we’re standing on the Brexit trap door which open’s at 00.01 hrs on Jan 1st 2021.
But don’t forget too, Joanna Cherry’s intervention which clarified that revoking Article 50 was the sovereign prerogative of the member State… So a “Sovereign” Scotland might yet, even now, have a Brexit Kill Switch. Revoke Article 50 as it pertains to Scotland…. Maybe. Maybe not. We might have lost that option back in January.
Why, oh why, have the bloody SNP sat twidling their thumbs these past five years instead of fighting this??? Why? Why? Why? I could honestly kick Nicola Sturgeon’s arse. Fking useless.
Also @ Rob at 2.25
The section headed “Civil Service” here :
link to en.wikipedia.org
has some more details, eg
Daisy , brilliant video.
OT I started thinking about an anthem for Scotland and wandered on to this. We learned it at school and it was really good to revisit Mireille Mathieu performed with gusto , stirring stuff.
youtu.be/7va62mL_LYU
You ever get the feeling that it seems to be a few regular posters on a website called Wings Over Scotland that knows what is going on within the SNP?
And that we are the ONLY punters that are trying to come up with answers to get us out of this fuckin mess?
Coz I do,,,I hear not a peep from anyone else, nothing from nobody.
Where are all these freedom fighters that were voted in at Westminster and Holyrood?
And to think they are all due ANOTHER pay increase,,,who are the mugs here, us or them?