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Tiers against fears

Posted on October 31, 2020 by

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213 to “Tiers against fears”

  1. The Isolator says:

    Back with a bang Chris.Well done sir.

  2. Turnbulldrier says:

    Well done Chis.

    Sums up what should be happening, I can only hope that those who think orthwise, or cannae be arsed with it all, screw the heid.

  3. McDuff says:

    Excellent Chris.

  4. Robert Graham says:

    OK gimme a hint ?

    Dont get it

  5. Xaracen says:

    Wow! Actually brought tears to my eyes, well done, sir!

  6. Robert Graham says:

    So far a Well Done & a Excellent
    Still don’t get it

  7. LeggyPeggy says:

    Well done Chris , Great once again .

    Where would we all be without the Nhs to look after us, so folk can we all be sensible and help the Nhs by not being idiots by thinking that this virus is going away any time soon. I was talking to a nurse this week and she said its scary the way that people are not socially distancing, wearing their masks in shops and so on as the number of people being admitted to hospital is on the rise sharply again.

  8. Stuart MacKay says:

    If that’s a Gurkha in the bottom right then, bravo, bravo!

    I once had a conversation with an OBE and British Army aficionado who argued the position that Gurkhas should be denied the full British Army pension, available to everyone else, because that amount of money would destabilize their local economy. The point that money could also be used to educate grandchildren and provide security for families that had offered their sons for service was utterly, utterly lost on his colonial arrogance and English exceptionalist racism.

  9. Ottomanboi says:

    I would like to assumd your comment on the cartoon is served with a large portion of irony, scepticism and cynicism.
    Tho i could be very wrong…..alas

  10. McLaurin says:

    Great toon, Chris.

  11. winifred mccartney says:

    Superb Chris – so much in it every time I look at it I see something else.

    So many people just don’t seem to get how serious the situation is – our local hospital is about to close its doors to day patients as day surgery unit has been moved twice to accommodate Covid patients and is now closing altogether.

    Bojo and his friends have had a week off not caring about what is happening all around and especially ‘listening’ but not hearing. The money wasted on Dido Harding and Rupert Soames with track and trace (that does neither) could have supported all those losing their jobs. Thank God for Scot Govt who are a least trying despite all the moaning from opposition parties and the bbc who are just looking for people to moan about something every day instead of explaining the seriousness of the situation and convincing people to follow the rules.

    If only more could be done for all those financially impacted and worrying about debt and Christmas on top of everything else.

  12. Ottomanboi says:

    Brexit, Freedom, Independence bla bla…
    Pardon me while i vomit on the whole coven of fear intoxicated politicians and their ‘expert’ teams of worst case scenario merchants.
    I do not live in or experience your cramped little nightmare world,

  13. Alison Ross says:

    This is brilliant Chris!

  14. Effijy says:

    Not to worry, another few billion to Tory Friends
    and yet another promise of Distract & Disgrace
    and Westminster can vote for themselves as World
    Beating, Whack A Mole, Oven Ready, Get It Done,
    UK Covid Death leaders.

  15. Ryan McAllister says:

    @Stuart MacKay 08:13

    Looks like a paramedic to me

  16. Davy says:

    One country, one people, one purpose, one soul.

    all recreated by Chris.

    Stunning work.

  17. Effijy says:

    England, Wales and N. Ireland all have a higher R rate of infection than Scotland.

    Strange Boris and the Balls Up Club suggesting a possible National Lockdown for England?
    That’s nice to know that England is the nation and we are not all in it together.
    The Colony known as Scotland of course will get a full share of the debt a new English lockdown
    will generate.

    “Coffins around the Xmas Tree at the Tory Party Hop”

  18. Stuart MacKay says:

    Ryan McAllister

    I thought the green was more like khaki. What I took from the cartoon was that these are the all the people who are holding it all together for the rest of us. The bottom tier are the ones who are doing all the work. Chris’ cartoon are superbly filled with detail so if you dig around you can come up with all kinds of stuff. As the Rev. says. this stuff is not just thrown together.

  19. Grouse Beater says:

    That’s an exceptionally good one, Chris. Like a good painting, there’s a lot of detail to keep you interested. (Am so sorry the pandemic and my fate stopped us meeting this year.) I’ve a new essay out. I seem to have blown a fuse this weekend. Must be the dark nights.

    Your essential weekend reading

    “SNP or Independence?”:

  20. Bob Mack says:

    We all support each other. Some more than others. A bit like Indy just now.

  21. ahundredthidiot says:

    I was just 19 when I carried my one and only coffin which was draped in a Union flag and wearing what we Brits called Number 2 Dress uniform. The young man inside was three days short of his 21st birthday. He did not die gloriously in a hail of bullets rescuing his friends or storming a machine gun post, like many other young men who choose to serve, he died through misadventure. Being in the Armed Services, I would argue, is one big bloody misadventure. It’s dangerous. And not just because you can be sent to fight a War against some Evil foreign state, or being at the hands of masochistic NCOs during peacetime but also For the collective idiocy of our own Politicians.

    I didn’t get my War – I stood on the side of one (Will and final letter written) for three days before hearing that the Armoured Lads had done their job and our storm trooping skill set would no longer be required – despite the name tag, we were all pretty scared on the inside, ready and professional on the outside.

    The men who did get to fight their War, faired much worse. Regretfully, we all wanted to chase down that slim blonde in the distance walking away from us. The ones who managed to do that, to chase her down, to catch her up – only to have her turn around and show her ugly and decrepit, bitter and twisted face – know the full truth of War. I do not believe, if asked on their death bed – whether it be in a muddy field, on a pile of rubble, upon a beach – that there is a single dead soldier who would not trade the rest of their lives to live in peace and raise a family in place of that War they are expected to die for.

    Such is their sacrifice. I have heard argue that, well, they sign up and perhaps they get what’s coming – and this is true, todays Armed Services do sign up voluntarily. But there is good reason they are signed up so young and discharged, still young, at around 40, before they really find their own minds. Then there is those who did their National Service and before them, the Conscripts.

    All have one thing in common – a dead soldier is still a dead soldier. Male for the most part, women as well. Still dead.

    We can remember them in our homes – and that has always been my choice, taking a personal moment once a year – but some people and Organisations feel the need to show a public display of remembrance, teach the youngsters not to take for granted the Freedoms that they have and enjoy. To send a message, they say, ‘listen folks, the lads from our streets fought the oppressors, spilled their blood and lost their lives to secure Your Freedom and Liberty – you dont need to respect that, but please understand it so that their memory can live on – that freedom is not without cost and can be taken away from you, and if ever it is, then the price to get it back is massive’

    And here I ask – are we not under attack? Has the enemy not landed on our shores and gotten behind our defences, now busy dismantling every single freedom known to man, up and down these Isles?

    It’s not the Virus killing approximately 0.06 percent of our population, it is the reaction to it and the Fear stripping away at our very humanity – dismantling our souls. Dont hug people even if they are in pain, steer clear of your fellow human and pour scorn on them if they are not wearing a facemask – clipe on them to the Police if they have someone around their house. Let the dying die alone, confused and broken hearted and then bury them in plastic body bags without a proper send off. Terrify people that going to the GP or the Hospital could kill them – and watch what happens when that Health Service is removed from the Society we all created and built through blood, sweat and tears.

    On November 8th the very freedom to gather and remember those who died for our freedom is to be denied by the Scottish Government. The enemy is not wearing swastikas, nor is it only to be seen under a microscope.

    We can blame a lack of leadership which seems to be endemic at both Westminster and Holyrood – championed by a Media intent on celebrating misery and bad news, the only things they know how to sell – or we can turn inward.

    On a channel crossing ferry during my final return from British Army On the Rhine (BAOR) I fell into conversation with a German National, a Teacher, bound for England (to teach English no less) and naturally we got on to speaking about his Countries history. He taught me a lot, about the family shame, the amnesia, the new generation, but most importantly he told me that the Second World War had nothing really to do with Hitler, the Nazis, the SS. Intrigued, he went on to explain that it was his great belief was that in the long time running up to what should have been an avoidable and devastating war was that the blame lay with the People. They either simply believed everything that they were told or chose to stay quiet, but for the most part, they bought the fear. By the time real people of conscience stood up – it was too late – laws were passed and some of those brave (mostly young) people, swung by their necks.

    Veterans and Civilians alike will not be able to gather on November 8th to respect the Fallen and declare that ‘We Will Remember Them’.

    Who is to blame for that?

    We are.

  22. Pete says:

    I think you’re getting a bit carried away by your hatred of all things non- Scottish.
    The r rate in England is 1.1 to 1.3. with Scotland 1.0 to 1.3.
    Hardly a great difference.
    Calm down.

  23. Dan says:

    Mad World indeed.

    Not seeing any mucky farmers or boilersuited engineers in the pic though, ye ken, jist the folk that get cold and dirty to feed and keep oor society running.
    Aye praise where it’s due n’all, but I thought we were all in this the gither…

  24. Muscleguy says:

    Perfect Chris, absolutely perfect.

  25. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Thanks to all on previous thread who expressed interest in the protest camp idea. Will let youse know here as and when we’ve got something solid to discuss/aim for. It’s possible that planning is already underway and we just haven’t heard yet. If anyone does hear of any protests in the offing, please let us know.


  26. Dan says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    The Dundee AUOB event this weekend is cancelled due to covid situation.

    There are others planned though, but whether they will go ahead…

    Coldstream on 30th Nov

    Scottish Parliament on 21st Dec

  27. Bob Mack says:

    Eng!and already has its own pyramid. It’s called The Tower of Babel because nobody seems able to communicate what they need to know.

  28. robertknight says:

    Beautifully expressed Mr Cairns.

    You have a wonderful talent.


  29. The problem the UK Gov has is that Covid will not be bribed to go away.

  30. Prasad says:

    1st tier doctors and nurses risking their lives and some dying for us
    2nd tier health care workers
    3rd tier essential workers, bus drivers and bin men
    4th tier young and healthy
    5th tier elderly and disabled

    And some fuckers thinks this is a hoax and are endangering us all.

  31. stuart mctavish says:

    Test to check if it was me or the you tube link to the Delingpole – Mike Yeadon podcast (immunology 101 at 1h 13 minutes & 25s) that caused the greater offense..

  32. katherine hamilton says:

    Cool the beans. You’re beginning to sound like a serial killer.

  33. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dan (9.55) –



  34. MajorBloodnok says:

    Great cartoon Chris. The health workers and support knee deep in Covid, keeping society afloat, with granny safe at the top. I wonder what Pret a Manger’s version of this would be…

  35. Frank Gillougley says:

    Band on the run, indeed. All fugitives from government caught in the glare of covid. Just an alternative reading …

  36. Kenny says:

    Saying more in one cartoon* than Westminster can during a pandemic.
    *’Cartoon’ feels like an undervaluing of your work. ‘Drawn commentary’? maybe a bit high-falutin?

    Great stuff, Chris.

  37. Daisy Walker says:

    I didn’t understand the cartoon at first. Got it now. Very good.

    Re AUOB – I love the marches, but I think we need to adjust our methods due to covid.

    Until Marches can be resumed, how about we have a day of action – Posters on cars, and bridges.

    What about Lollypops for Yes at Busy pedestrian crossings. Kitted up with a face mask or visor, a luminous vest, and a great big Lollypop sign for YES/Indy, and assisting people as the cross the road (along with the wee green man).

    Nearly every hospital and Doctors Surgery has a pedestrian crossing. Theme it up re the need to Save our Country / Save our NHS.

    In Perthshire – one of the austerity cut backs has been the withdrawal of Lollypop persons…. We could generate some good will at the schools doing this – while being useful at the same time.

    Any thoughts.

    Wheely bins (your own) an ideal platform to put a poster on… and if the council complain, remove it on bin day. Put it back on, and back out, the next.

    Visibility is a very powerful tool… or do we meekly get back in our box.

  38. Pat says:


    I think I have some dust in my eye.

  39. MaggieC says:

    Excellent Chris ,

    Grouse Beater @ 9.10 am ,

    Thank you for another excellent post and what you wrote here sums it all ,

    “ When you add it all up, you are left with a top layer of a very tired party hell bent on protecting it’s power and entitlement and not the people who elected it. It makes for depressing reading, but facts that should be faced. “

    The Snp as a party have lost their way in fighting to regain Scotland’s Independence and too many of them have got themselves in to comfy positions and have forgotten that they are there to represent the people who elected them in the first place .

  40. Alec Lomax says:

    Brilliant cartoon. A picture does indeed tell a thousand words.

  41. Willie says:

    Difficult not see see how the bottom row standing in the Covid infested water supporting everybody else are all medical staff comprising doctors,nurses, ambulance man.

    And at the top two oldsters and a youngster the most vulnerable in our society .

    Yes, clap for the NHS and then deny them a payrise.

    But who is missing from the top. The elite super rich few who feed off us all.

    Welcome to broken Britain.

  42. MaggieC says:

    Just a reminder that the English Government are putting Vat back onto PPE equipment tomorrow so if anyone needs masks , gloves etc and if your thinking about ordering any today , please order it from Lynsey Bruce at Ayemail especially when he’s done so much for the YES movement and for delivering all the Wings perks .

  43. Chris Cairns says:

    Prasad has correctly identified the tiers – well done. Bit tricky distinguishing care workers from NHS nurses – all I could think of was their occasionally slightly more jaunty colour scheme!
    Thanks, as always, for all the kind comments. Stay safe y’all.

  44. Grouse Beater says:

    “Thank you for another excellent post and what you wrote here sums it all. Maggie 10.51

    I care enough about the SNP’s trajectory to want to sort throw a very heavy brass gimble at them.

    But as is my habit, I end the essay on a high note – Duncan Hamilton’s demolition of colonial orthodoxy, the very inspiration missing from the current SNP hierarchy.

  45. Willie says:

    MaggieC. I didn’t realise the Tories were putting VAT on PPE from tomorrow.

    This is Taxing protective equipment is an outrage. This is a crime against humanity.

    Truly we should hunt these bastards down and rid our country of their cancer.

    Taxing the sick, the crippled, the vulnerable, when will the slumbering wake up?

  46. Ottomanboi says:

    Never….not in my name.
    Has English/Globish/NewSpeak become the universal language of EcoFa….ecological fascism?
    Another manifestation of WEF AgitProp.
    The SNP gets off on this kinda BraveNewWorld stuff.
    Recommend this.
    Style may be dated but theme is contemporary.
    “People at any time repelled her, and these were nightmares from her worst dreams. People were crawling about, people were screaming, whimpering, gasping for breath, touching each other, vanishing in the dark, and ever and anon being pushed off the platform on to the live rail. Some were fighting round the electric bells, trying to summon trains which could not be summoned. Others were yelling for Euthanasia or for respirators, or blaspheming the Machine. Others stood at the doors of their cells fearing, like herself, either to stop in them or to leave them. And behind all the uproar was silence — the silence which is the voice of the earth and of the generations who have gone”.

  47. Willie says:

    And yes MaggieC what is the odious Nicola Sturgeon doing about VAT going on PPE.

    Feck all! …..that’s what. Feck all save for her daily Matinee stage performance.

  48. Willie says:

    And yes MaggieC at least Nicola and Rasputin are well remunerated enough to pay tax on health protection products

  49. Hatuey says:

    Good picture, for sure, but my personal experience of the NHS in the last year or two has been quite disappointing. I know nobody wants to hear that, we are all supposed to shut up and clap, etc.

    Coronavirus meant my GP surgery changed its stance from something like “don’t come near us unless you really need to” beforehand, to something like “fuck off and die” afterwards. Quite a subtle change really.

    The big heroes of this crisis for me has been the supermarkets and their staff. There were shortages but, unlike the shortages of PPE that the NHS experienced, those shortages were down to panic-buying rather than really inept planning. The supermarkets and their staff got us through the first lock-down and deserve acknowledgement.

    We shouldn’t let our political positions skew our assessment of the NHS during this crisis. At the level of the nurses and others on the front line, I’m sure they did a great job and saved many lives. But let’s not get carried away, that’s what they’re paid and trained to do.

    At the level of NHS management and above, there are serious questions to be asked about shortages of PPE, shortages of beds, shortages of respirators, and emergency planning generally. And we need an inquiry into the NHS role in the care-home deaths.

  50. MaggieC says:

    Grouse Beater @ 11.35 am ,

    I watched that video of Duncan Hamilton yesterday and it was excellent , we need more people like Duncan today and as it shows in the video “ he’s got a fire in his belly and a passion in his heart “ for Scotland and that’s what’s missing in the Snp politicians of today in Scottish politics .

    This is the link to Grouse Beater’s twitter with the link to Duncan Hamilton’s speech for anyone who hasn’t seen it .

  51. MaggieC says:

    Willie @ 11.40 am

    The Vat is being put back on PPE tomorrow , I think it was temporarily removed earlier this year and unfortunately as Vat is retained by the English Government there’s not a lot that we can do about it in Scotland . All the more reason that we need Independence now to get away from the callous and heartless tories in England .

  52. Effijy says:


    I’m for all things Scottish and against all things Tory
    Fascism from another country infecting my country.

    The charts I’m seeing show things regarding R rates are
    The UK’s worst in England.
    Their South West Regions are the highest in the UK.
    ICU capacity is almost Maxed out in 2 areas of England.
    England will need to go in lockdown next week and Scotland will pay for it.

    Only Facts here Pete. As your commanding officer for a new line of England is great.

  53. Breeks says:

    Brilliant ‘toon Chris, as ever.

    Poignant too, that those lower levels in the pyramid are likely to be the ones most affected by a US Trade Deal which targets Scotland NHS.

    Full marks to Craig Murray and his audacious bid to be elected SNP President. Come on Scotland, in the words of Jean-Luc Picard, “Make it so”.

    Not kidding. Grassroots Scotland, do what you’re good at, put the word out and do all you can to help get Craig the post, a genuine a Scottish wildcat amongst amongst the pigeons…

    I confess, not being an SNP member, I find it curious indeed that the SNP turned it’s nose up at someone like Craig Murray with his intimate knowledge of the UK Establishment. I would have thought that knowledge and network of contacts would have been invaluable.

    As I understand it, (and forgive me, the Scottish Press of late 2014 is hardly a reputable source), the SNP felt Craig wasn’t content to be team player. But instead, I now find myself wondering whether the SNP’s dreadful ‘clique-ism’ was already a “thing” back in Dec 2014.

  54. Josef Ó Luain says:

    When going to your day-job becomes like going-into-battle with the distinct possibility of dying, drastic measures are long overdue. The lock-down that most reasonable people see as necessary, not to mention inevitable, could’ve been in place weeks ago had it not been for the sectional-interest lobbying of government on behalf of business and its ultimately self-harming agenda. Hubris, delusions of entitlement along with relentless self-pleading have no role to play in the war against C19. Don’t listen to me: take the trouble ask the front-line care-workers, nurses and doctors what they think.

  55. willie says:

    Sean Connery dead at 90.


  56. Fireproofjim says:

    Sean Connery. Great Scot. Great Patriot. Long time supporter of independence.
    Greatly missed.

  57. Ottomanboi says:


    “Last summer, Boris Johnson refused to join Macron in criticising the Bolsonaro administration over the Amazon fires crisis, for which he was later thanked by the Brazilian ambassador. Critics have suggested that environmental standards will likely be sacrificed as the UK pursues trade deals post-Brexit. Last year, a Brazilian official said that the country was seeking a Mercosur trade deal with the UK similar to the EU’s agreement”.

  58. Colin Alexander says:

    ****** IMPORTANT FOR SCOTLAND *********************

    INDY FIRST, SNP members need a voting guide ASAP.

    Conferences Committee (open list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination:
    Deadline: 13/11/2020
    Corri Wilson

    Malcolm Balfour

    Alexander Belic

    Adam Cabuk

    Christina Cannon

    Roz Currie

    Christopher Duffy

    Ian Gallagher

    Patrick Grady

    Chris Hanlon

    Delia Henry

    Joan Hutcheson

    Kenny MacLaren

    Jack O’Neil

    Munro Ross

    Rory Steel

    Subhan Tahir

    Suzanne McLaughlin

    Kirsteen Currie

    Fraser Thompson

    Danny Aston

    Rosemary Hunter

    Anne McLaughlin

    Conferences Committee (all female list – 5 members to be elected) – Requests for Nomination:
    Deadline: 13/11/2020
    Rosemary Hunter

    Anne McLaughlin

    Corri Wilson

    Christina Cannon

    Roz Currie

    Delia Henry

    Joan Hutcheson

    Suzanne McLaughlin

    Kirsteen Currie

    Catriona MacDonald

    Policy Development Committee – Outwith Scotland – Requests for Nomination:
    Deadline: 13/11/2020
    Jonathan Kiehlmann

    Gordon Millar

    National Secretary – Requests for Nomination:
    Deadline: 13/11/2020
    Marco Biagi

    Lorna Finn

    Stewart Stevenson

    David Henry

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    National Treasurer – Requests for Nomination:
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    Colin Beattie

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    Michael Russell

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    Graham Campbell

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    Amanda Burgauer

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    Policy Development Committee – Glasgow (open list) – Requests for Nomination:
    Deadline: 13/11/2020
    Malcolm Balfour

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  59. Beaker says:

    Great cartoon, reminds me of the posters some dentists have on the ceiling to distract you.

  60. Ottomanboi says:

    THE best Bond ever was a Scot playing an Englishman…
    The Scottish antisyzygy made flesh.
    + Requiescat in pace SEAN +

  61. MaggieC says:

    Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    From the Written Correspondence page ,

    “ On 29 October 2020 the Convener wrote to Liz Lloyd, Chief of Staff to the First Minister requesting additional written evidence and also to civil servant John Somers: “

    And the written evidence page ,

  62. Sean was hated by the unionist rats that infest Scottish print and screen media for his love of Scotland and his hope for independence,

    great actor great person great Scotsman.

  63. lothianlad says:

    rest in Peace Thomas Connery. God Bless.

  64. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Headline news over here as well:

    Sean Connery, the Scottish actor has died.

  65. Robert Graham says:

    Aye sad to learn about Big Tam

    There goes another one , hoped and preyed for a Independent Scotland never saw it

    Just Like most of here we won’t see it under this current leadership

    Good to see Paul Kavanaghs crowdfunding has reached its target , I bet a lot of stroke suffers wished they were into this Independence lark ,they unfortunately will discover what the Social Security system is actually meant for , and by Christ it’s not their to help it’s there to frustrate .

    Again back to that site , I don’t know what to call it now as his wee dug is gone, anyway apart from defending their Crown Jewels Section 30 – 40 – 50 or what ever it’s called , the new one is going after and mocking Martin Keatings for damaging the whole fight for independence by criticising the Scottish Government for building Obstacles to Stymie his attempt to clarify the whole can we or can we not have the right to hold a referendum any referendum,

    I can’t remember seeing so many people attempting not only defend a utterly pointless position, but to attempt to smear someone who at great personal cost is trying to fight on their behalf , remember this is the same Matin Keatings who was lauded after he and others gave Bawjaws a good kicking over his illegal shutdown of Parliament , The Guy hasn’t changed .

  66. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see those who follow philosophers who deny biological reality, are still trying to convince folks that public health ethics are bad. So here’s a look at some environmental ethics. We need to move “Toward a Systemic Ethic: In Search of an Ethical Basis for Sustainability and Precaution”, rather than allow English Torydum to deny Scots the benefit of ethically rational government. There is simply no sustainable future for Scotland as a nation, if we allow ourselves to be treated like slaves by the radical right, who now control British politics.

    “There are many different meanings of sustainability and precaution and no evident connection between the new normative concepts and the traditional moral theories. We seek an ethical basis for sustainability and precaution – a common framework that can serve as a means of resolving the conceptual ambiguities of the new normative concepts and the conflicts between new and traditional moral concepts and theories. We employ a systemic approach to analyze the past and possible future extension of ethics and establish an inclusive framework of ethical extension. This framework forms the basis for what we call a systemic ethic.”

  67. frogesque says:

    O/t but kind of art work related. Brill ‘toon BTW Chris!

    Facebook group YES Stones are planning another massive St. Andrews Day painted stone drop for the 30th November. We want to smash last year’s total with over 1,000,000 stones planted the length and breadth of Scotland.

    All and any publicity for the event across all platforms would be great and if you want join in feel free to do so.


  68. John H. says:

    An SNP friend of ours who is elderly and disabled was becoming concerned that she hadn’t received her postal vote for the selection process yet. She contacted the SNP head office about this, and got a phone call from them this morning. The man who phoned her assured her that she needn’t worry, as she could vote by phone anyway.

    So presumably someone would fill in the form for her. Democracy SNP style. At least the old Labour Party would make a show of doing things honestly.

    I’m still a member, but only just. I’ll wait till January, and if Nicola’s master stroke doesn’t happen, that will be it for me.

  69. Republicofscotland says:

    Nice one Chris.

    I would urge those than can vote for the SNP president to vote for Craig Murray. Mike Russell hasn’t brought us any closer to independence over the last few years, I don’t even recall Russell aim any criticism at Sturgeon or Murrell either.

    Whereas Murray has put his own liberty at risk to bring us the machinations surrounding the Alex Salmond fit up.

  70. Sarah says:

    @ Republic of Scotland: Craig Murray for President, definitely. I tried to get him [and a couple of MPs] to stand for leader but it didn’t happen, sadly.

  71. CameronB Brodie says:

    I think this might be just the ticket to sort out all those who would deny biology matters. Or that public health ethics are essential to democracy. So that’s both ‘our’ parliaments. 🙁

  72. Republicofscotland says:

    Sturgeon has a cheek praising Sean Connery who was great Scottish independence supporter, Sturgeon has all but attempted to kill the indy dream, a dream that Sean Connery should’ve seen attained under her watch.

    Stand down now Sturgeon.

  73. Republicofscotland says:

    Sarah @3.03pm.

    At least you tried Sarah, change will come, soon I hope.

  74. Michael Laing says:

    @Republicofscotland at 3.09pm: It occurred to me that Sean Connery may well have been appalled by Sturgeon’s lack of commitment to independence. It’s a tragedy that he hasn’t lived to see independence, but the same applies to many thousands of committed independence supporters who have been let down by Sturgeon’s abject uselessness (or worse).

  75. Saffron Robe says:

    Lockdown is a failed model, unless the gains are properly acted upon. However, we came out of three months of lockdown with porous borders internally and externally – no attempt to detect the virus at points of entry and no sensible and coherent track & trace system in place. All the gains have been lost and none of the restrictions being imposed can or will work.

    We are now locked into a never-ending cycle of increasing and decreasing restrictions and our hope that the restrictions will eventually work is as misplaced as our belief that Nicola Sturgeon will eventually deliver independence.

    As regards the NHS, surely a national health service should, by definition, be able to cope with all illnesses, not just one specific illness (no matter how serious) to the detriment of all others (which can be just as life-threatening)?

  76. boris says:

    Gerrymandering of the NEC By the NEC

    The election of the NEC this year has the potential to bring about fundamental change of the party in its present form since its NEC will decide the future direction of the party. The choice for independence tactics will be polarized on two factions. The WOKE activists who favour the “Gradualists” or the “Fundamentalists” who prefer direct action.

    Anticipating the election of a significant number of “fundamentalists” the NEC imposed new and restrictive rules on branch management so that the NEC was enabled to veto and force changes to candidate short lists so that a marked prevalence of WOKE activists would be assured. The process will be completed early in November.

    This is the real reason the present NEC membership, (now choc-a-bloc with WOKE activists) postponed the Party conference from June until late November

    They needed to be sure the fundamentalists had been castrated. And they might just succeed. In which case their will be no further referendum before 2031 at the earliest.

  77. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Why is Corri Wilson on so-many nominations lists?

    She was a terrible councillor in Ayr; an even worse MP for my constituency, she even managed to lose her seat to a particularly half-witted Tory.

    Given how poor she was, she must definitely have friends in high places.

    I would hunt her.

  78. susanXX says:

    Completely O/T but Yousaf’s Hate Crime Bill seems to be based on his own experiences not life.

    Personally I don’t believe Islamophobia exists. Phobias are IRRATIONAL fears and I don’t see any irrationality. Laughing at religion and religious figures is acceptable. Chopping peoples heads off is not. So it’s a rational fear.

  79. CameronB Brodie says:

    Saffron Robe
    Government in Britain has been intensely neo-liberal in nature, for the last four decades. This has hollowed out civic society’s capacity to cope with crises. The nature of a neo-liberal approach to government is characteristically dis-jointed and short-sighted. This means Scots will never enjoy good public health and the benefits of democracy in Brexitania, as neo-liberal government is ill-suited to supporting public health. We certainly won’t help ourselves if we allow English Torydum and an institutionally racist Westminster to privatise our national health service.

  80. CameronB Brodie says:


    In 1996 The Runnymede Trust, an independent research and social policy agency, established the Commission on British Muslims and Islamophobia. The Commission, chaired by Professor Gordon Conway, is composed of eighteen members, and is a multi-ethnic and multi-religious committee. A statement from the Commission on British Muslims and Islamophobia:

    “We are anxious that our report should be a spur to timely action, by many people, in many places, of many kinds. Everyone, we stress, has a relevant and important part to play. Islamophobia is a challenge to us all.”

  81. susanXX says:

    CBB bollox. Islam IS a danger .

  82. Graeme says:

    susanXX says:
    31 October, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    Completely O/T but Yousaf’s Hate Crime Bill seems to be based on his own experiences not life.

    Personally I don’t believe Islamophobia exists. Phobias are IRRATIONAL fears and I don’t see any irrationality. Laughing at religion and religious figures is acceptable. Chopping peoples heads off is not. So it’s a rational fear.

    That is absolutely spot on Sarah

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    Got any evidence?

    “Islamophobia is a term used to describe irrational hostility, fear, or hatred of Islam, Muslims, and Islamic culture, and active discrimination against these groups or individuals within them.”

  84. Graeme says:

    susanXX says:
    31 October, 2020 at 4:42 pm

    Completely O/T but Yousaf’s Hate Crime Bill seems to be based on his own experiences not life.

    Personally I don’t believe Islamophobia exists. Phobias are IRRATIONAL fears and I don’t see any irrationality. Laughing at religion and religious figures is acceptable. Chopping peoples heads off is not. So it’s a rational fear.
    Absolutely spot on Sarah

  85. CameronB Brodie says:

    Get any evidence? Such as “Muslim Community Organizations’ Perceptions of Islamophobia: Towards an Informed Countering Response”.

  86. susanXX says:

    Thank you Graeme.

  87. susanXX says:

    Groups mouthing off is not evidence.

  88. susanXX says:

    We’ve spent centuries fighting back against religion without bowing down now to a foreign one.

  89. CameronB Brodie says:

    That’s simply you giving voice to narrow minded bigotry, so kindly stop punting racist mince.

  90. Graeme says:

    Cameron did you watch on the internet Johanaton Berg or John Hanney beheaded by these monsters in the name of Islam ?

  91. susanXX says:

    It’s not narrow minded bigotry. Maybe you prefer the Islamic way, your choice. Not mine.

  92. Graeme says:

    Cameron did you ever watch Johnathon Berg of John Hannay beheaded by these monsters in the name of Islam ?

  93. OldPete says:

    Islamaphobia does exist all over the UK and large parts of the world. For anyone to say otherwise then they must be thick or stupid or more likely both. Islamaphobia and any form of sectarianism or racism have no place in Scotland.

    Sad to here Sean Connery died, but 90 was a good innings. He was a proud Scot and great supporter of Scottish Independence and the SNP. Shame Sean never saw Independence achieved but surely it must come soon, but only if the YES supporters stay united and strong.

  94. bipod says:

    I see that the hysteria surrounding covid has now reached fever pitch again with Engtland now going into a “month long” lockdown that will almost certainly last much longer than a month, just like the first one. No doubt nicola sturgeon will follow suit in the coming days.

    We are now going to have a second round of economic devastation atfer not recovering from the first, completely empty hospitals as they will refuse or only begrudgingly treat those with illnesses other than covid and all the other associated problems caused by lockdown and there is still not a single shred of evidence to prove that lockdown controls the virus and reduces deaths (we know that it will increase deaths in the long run). And this is all being done for what has to be the mildest “pandemic” in human history.

    For anyone interested here is a graph showing mortality per million in the US over the past 100 years. They have also compiled graphs for other nations.

  95. CameronB Brodie says:

    You are conflating Islamofascism with Islam, which is pretty much the root of Islamophobia. So here’s a look at “Misogyny, Racism, and Islamophobia: Street Harassment at the Intersections”.

  96. Graeme says:

    @ Cameron
    So if islamafaschism is the root of islamiphobia then my abhorrence at seeing an innocent man (an infidel in their language) have his head hacked off with an 18″ blade makes me an islamaphobe then I’m happy to be one

    and btw you still didn’t answer my question did you watch it Cameron ?

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    Not so fast there. Your conflation is the problem, which is rooted in racism and bigotry. No I didn’t, as I’m not interested in experiencing terror, which the video is intended to promote. So I’d suggest you stop punting racist and dengerous mince, as well.

  98. susanXX says:

    Islam has nothing to offer 21century Scotland. Assimilate or go to wherever you feel more comfortable.

  99. Graeme says:

    Shame you didn’t watch it Cameron it would have probably been the only education you’ve ever had

    Now f@ck off

  100. OldPete says:

    Well written Cameron, racism and sectarianism have no place anywhere. Shame there is an increasing number of racists on this site. Always thought this site was about achieving Scottish independence, maybe not so much now.

    Divide, distract and destroy it’s the UK’s way of controlling its colonies native populations, which seems to be working very well on here.

  101. Famous15 says:

    So you shoehorn wings into an islamaphobic position and you have Stu by the bollockS,

    Job done Graeme and porno SusanXX.

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    sorry…,.I’ll not be lectureD by racists. So here’s a look at “Islamophobia as Anti-Muslim Racism”.

  103. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks, I do my best. 😉

  104. susanXX says:

    ?porno susanxx? Fuck off! Tell me exactly what Islam brings to Scotland? Absolutely nothing.

  105. Famous15 says:

    My many Islamic friends contribute quite a lot and some a great deal.

    Being a foul mouthed racist does not a foul mouthed indippendista MAke!

  106. Famous15 says:

    Sorry Susan I. Thought you were proud of your XX Being pornoas seen on TV.

  107. crazycat says:

    @ Cameron

    Islam is practised by members of all races, so whatever else hostility to it might be, it is not “racist”.

  108. Hatuey says:

    Maybe those who turn to terrorism and extremes would be less inclined to do so if we didn’t massacre people in their millions for oil…

    You all have a responsibility to try to get to the root cause of this stuff, if you really want to stop it that is. Going around insulting Islam and Muslims and pretending your are shocked by terrorism achieves nothing.

    Either you care or you don’t. If you care, you should be on here talking about western foreign policy which is 100% at the root of it all.

    And that’s all I should need to say about that.

  109. Graeme says:

    Have you noticed they never answer questions Susan just name calling always name calling

  110. Famous15 says:

    As-salaam ‘alykum.

    And out from under their rocks they slithered.

    Independence is normal. Racism or if you like sectarianism is abnormal and filthy.

  111. Bob Mack says:

    We have seen acts carried out by a few Muslims in the name of religion. Remember there are 1.8 billion practising Muslims.

    Also remember that they want an over the top reaction to start a conflict. That is their goal, not revenge in the name of their God on some random parishioners they never knew


  112. susanXX says:

    Yes Graeme I have noticed.

  113. Al-Stuart says:


    PLEASE think about others. Several folk have raised concerns about your prodigious need to spaff every thread with your all too often irrelevant output.

    PLEASE give your utterly off-topic links a rest. I have clicked on many of your links and the majorIty go down exceedingly remote, useless rabbit holes that are a feckless waste of time.

    Sometimes LESS IS MORE.

    TRY being ON-TOPIC.

    Chris Cairns has spent hours drawing an incredibly moving piece of artwork and your reference would be to relate your academic prowess in…

    Utterly OFF TOPIC.

    With Stuart Campbell considering closing down the Wings Over Scotland website as he didn’t start WoS as a vehicle for bashing the SNP (no matter how gerrymandered the McWokeist cabal of all female legally proscribed witch list),I personally wouldn’t blame Stuart doing something better or different with his life when EVERY thread is polluted with vast numbers of soul-crushing, irrelevant time-wasting waffle-posts.

    The Spamalot seems symptomatic of a neurosis where the profligate poster feels a need to prove he is a very gifted and talented individual.

    Whereas, my fingers hurt in having to scroll past these life-sapping pseudo science links that are academic, but so often utterly irrelevant.

  114. Craig P says:

    Four great Connery films you might not have seen:

    The Offence
    The Man Who Would be King (perhaps the best buddy movie ever)
    Zardoz (perhaps the *weirdest* film ever!)
    The Rock

    RIP Sir Sean.

    PS: great cartoon Chris.

  115. susanXX says:

    So how do we know the good guys? It’s like the trans thing.

  116. Elmac says:

    I do not have an issue with people following a religion providing they do not encroach on the rights and freedoms of others, but cutting off peoples heads because they do not agree with their own twisted interpretation of a religious faith is evil, disgusting barbarism and has to be eradicated. No mercy – instant death penalty after a fair trial – something none of their victims enjoyed.

  117. CameronB Brodie says:

    I appreciate religion and ethnicity don’t correlate precisely, though I’ve been lead to understand Islamophobia as a form of racism.

    Fancy a peek at “Intersectional identities and dilemmas in interactions with health care professionals: An interpretative phenomenological analysis of British gay Muslim men”? 🙂

    “Individual interviews were conducted with six self-identified Muslim gay men living in London focusing on their experience of health service use. Transcripts were analysed using Interpretative Phenomenological Analysis.

    Analysis identified two major themes: namely, the close(d) community and self-management with health care professionals, detailing participants’ concerns regarding the risks of disclosing sexuality; and the authentic identity: “you’re either a Muslim or you’re gay, you can’t be both”, which delineated notions of incommensurate identity.

    Analysis highlights the need for health practitioners to have insight into the complexity of intersectional identities, identity disclosure dynamics, and the negative consequences of assumptions made, be these heteronormative or faith-related.”

  118. Famous15 says:

    Good guy you aint. I have known as many Christian bampots as I have Muslims.

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    So you’d rather I allow bigotry and racist sentiment to be promoted blt?

  120. Al-Stuart says:

    CameronB Brodie,

    You sir are a troll.

    I am not biting.

    How dare you.

    Now either answer the point about the fact you Spamalot and have already CHASED Andy Ellis off of this website with your self-aggrandising shite. Or just fuck off.

  121. CameronB Brodie says:

    You sir, appear to be hostile to expert advice, in pretty much the same way as your man Andy. So I’ll not be taking any instruction from you.

  122. Famous15 says:

    For the sake of balance and being an honourable atheist let me admit I have known unsavoury atheists,Hindus and even murderous xenophobic Buddhists from Tibet but I do not trash the many because of the few.

  123. Bob Mack says:

    Killing in the name of religion is not new. Neither is the level of barbarity. Bosnia? Kosovo? List is as endless as the Gods names as these acts were carried out for.

    Ultimately they are done for man’s desires,not necessarily Gods. Mankind will sink to any level necessary to achieve a goal. Remember that.

  124. OldPete says:

    Good work again Cameron.
    Al-Stuart, what an arse !

  125. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Saffron Robe 4.27: some excellent points but you need to be careful trying to inject rationality into the debate 🙂 . The latest ONS stats I’ve seen for this month show overall mortality a little below the average for the last five years yet Johnson (and no doubt our FM, shortly) will push the panic button.

    People need hope and a feeling that government policies have a point to them. Clearly, lockdown has failed. If the government here thinks Covid is so deadly, why were schools and unis reopened? These measures have probably increased the number of “cases” which sometimes can mean an apparently positive test triggered when it encounters fragments of the dead virus. We should be counting admissions for people sick with Covid when trying to gauge the serious extent of the virus.

    Since the infection seems endemic, very infectious but generally having serious effects for a small number of the old (like me), they should be sheltered. However, in these circumstances a general lockdown will destroy the economy, people’s mental health (and physical health for the seriously ill people unable to access medical services) and social cohesion, where every stranger is potentially a super-spreader: the death of society, if you will. Cui bono?

    If we follow the logic of government advice, we will have to be in perpetual lockdown or endure a series of mini ones ad infinitum, because the viurus will always come back when the brake is taken off, unless the magical vaccine appears.

    Personally, I am rather suspicious that, Vallance, one of the government’s advisers, has a £600,000 stake in a Covid vaccine, according to the Daily Telegraph.

  126. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thanks again. 😉

  127. Al-Stuart says:


    Andy is not “my man”.

    I didn’t know Andy.

    He just appeared an exasperated soul who I watched your utter irrelevance and boredom grind down.

    Cameron, when Stuart Campbell muted you for a day, it was like a breath of fresh air.


    Cameron, for all your magic cloak of intelligence, did you read my post?

    Did you read the link I posted?

    It was an academic experiment in irony.

    You started posting on this thread at 2.30pm. Chris Cairns thread. You’ve spent FOUR hours TELLING EVERYONE ON HERE TO READ YOUR LINKS, the majority of which are OFF TOPIC.

    Yet when I post a rejoinder with a link, you ignore it.

    You ignore my original post.

    You ignore the reason I posted what I wrote.

    You ignored the reason why I posted.

    Ergo it is fair to say you are an ignorant person.

    So, I shall do as the wise advise elsewhere on this site extols. I shall do my best to ignore the trolls and master-baiters.

  128. Al-Stuart says:

    Old Pete,

    Your card was marked a long time ago.

    I may be an arse as you put it, but you are not even one of the cheeks of an arse. You are just what passes through it.

    Thanks for confirming you are a troll.

    Stu., my apologies for this, but is there any way Wings Over Scotland can have a style or HTML coding similar to Twitter where trolls can be muted.

    A bit like that Twitter BLOCK LIST you famously invented.

  129. Famous15 says:

    Ergo you say! I’ll tell you this Jimmy ahl have nane o thon French shit here.

  130. CameronB Brodie says:

    Andy thought a PhD in International Relations made him some sort of pop-star, and was openly hostile towards my ethically informed, post-colonial, legal position. His narrative was one of insurrection and FUD. So you’re only undermining your position by supporting his.

  131. Famous15 says:

    Shhh. Bated breath for the wisdom of Boris

  132. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Tinto Chiel (6.38) –

    Well said.

  133. Ottomanboi says:

    CameronBrodie 5:23pm
    My family ‘know’ Islam first hand, since the eighth century in fact. Individual Moslems no problem, most are kind, loving, decent and humanitarian,that I know from experience. Islam as a particular ‘globalist’ religious ‘ideology’ something quite other.
    Monks slaughtered in Algeria, Coptic Christians butchered on a beach in Libys, elderly Catholic priest throat slit before Mass in France, Charlie Hebdo murders, state school teacher beheaded, all in the 21st century. If Christians did the equivalent of such things there would be no end of strident condemnations of the superstitious nonsense motivating such behaviour.
    Then there is the Sunni v Shi’a mutual antipathy. The latter being most often victims of radical intolerance.
    Islam, in its many manifestations, is not a race, or ethnic community it is a multicultural religion. There a Moslems with blond hair!
    The liberal, ‘left leaning’ secularists amongst us need to stop being apologists for this excess.
    That includes the supposedly Catholic guy in the Vatican too, who ought to know better.
    Criticism of Islam is not racist or anti-Islamic, only those obsessed by the fallacious notion of ‘race’ could think it so.

  134. Beaker says:

    Watching Saturday Night Boris Special.
    England has just turned purple like the Quality Street sweet.
    Someone has gone mental with Excel graphs as well.

    More seriously, perhaps the UK would do well to look at the Asian model for dealing with the pandemic. Much better.

  135. Ottomanboi says:

    I’m probably the only person contributing btl whose family has lived for centuries under Muslim rule. I do rather resent the ‘wisdom’ of those who have not had that experience.

  136. CameronB Brodie says:

    I appreciate folks have serious concerns over the logic of the response to covid-19, but we’re only going to get through this if we appreciate risk is not always apparent. Yes, there are structural and procedural deficiencies in the UK’s response, but that is largely a consequence of the regressive and right-wing legal psychology that characterises Westminster’s approach to the law. So here’s a look at “A Metacognitive Approach to Reconsidering Risk Perceptions and Uncertainty: Understand Information Seeking During COVID-19”.

  137. Bob Mack says:


    Does it matter so much? There have been many Christian countries where living under their rule was just as problematic. I’m sure you can think of examples of you try.

  138. Ottomanboi says:

    My family ‘know’ Islam first hand, since the eighth century in fact. Individual Moslems no problem, most are kind, loving, decent and humanitarian,that I know from experience. Islam as a particular ‘globalist’ religious ‘ideology’ something quite other.
    Monks slaughtered in Algeria, Coptic Christians butchered on a beach in Libys, elderly Catholic priest throat slit before Mass in France, Charlie Hebdo murders, state school teacher beheaded, all in the 21st century. If Christians did the equivalent of such things there would be no end of strident condemnations of the superstitious nonsense motivating such behaviour.
    Then there is the Sunni v Shi’a mutual antipathy. The latter being most often victims of radical intolerance.
    Islam, in its many manifestations, is not a race, or ethnic community it is a multicultural religion. There a Moslems with blond hair!
    The liberal, ‘left leaning’ secularists amongst us need to stop being apologists for this excess.
    That includes the supposedly Catholic guy in the Vatican too, who ought to know better.
    Criticism of Islam is not racist or anti-Islamic, only those obsessed by the fallacious notion of ‘race’ could think it so.

  139. Stan Broadwood says:


    We all know Independence is fuckin normal.

    But we also know Sturgeon is very much abnormal.

    That is s the difference between you and “us”.

    On here talking your usual shite about anything other than “Sturgeon Bad”.

    Same as that roaster robbo you hang about with.

  140. Bob Mack says:


    You mean like Christchurch?

  141. Famous15 says:

    Stan I am not a member of your SNP.

    You must have confused me with another man.

    Here’s a freebie from someone who used to teach public relations. Be nice on the way up cos you might bump into them when you are on the way down.

    Also do not mix metaphors or messages.

    Your welcome!

  142. Ottomanboi says:

    Bob Mack.
    If you happen to be a Christian or an atheist in a Muslim state it DOES matter.
    The notion that western liberal secularists do not give a shit for what actually happens in the ME, as long as it does not bother them is several decades old.

  143. CameronB Brodie says:

    We already know you’re a fan of Rodger Scrutton, who’s believes the will of man is more powerful than the forces of nature. You also appear to be a fan or an Orientaist interpretation of Islam, so I think we’d all benefit if you accept the instruction offered by “Decolonizing Psychoanalysis / Psychoanalyzing Islamophobia”?

  144. CameronB Brodie says:


  145. Ottomanboi says:

    Oh piss off Brodie……hiding behind your faux intellectualism.
    I KNOW RADICAL ISLAM… member killed, others maimed at Mass in Iraq!!!!!
    Stuff your intellectualism
    You western poseur.

  146. Bob Mack says:


    Religion is just a tool to control populations. It has been for centuries. I do believe in something ,but on the evidence of every religion I have examined,it is none of them.

    I often read about the cruelty of the Japanese during WW2, enabled by Emperor worship and Bushido the warrior code.

    They killed all religions and in fact are probably still despised by those who endured their rule.

    Religious leaders have influence and power the world over. I used to have a wry smile at them all, blessing the soldiers to kill and main for God and country.

    None is worse than the other.

  147. Muscleguy says:

    Though in reality the NHS Drs and nurses paramedics etc. etc and the essential workers who brought food to the locked down, delivered their Amazon parcels etc are at the small proportion so the pyramid should actually be upside down. The many of us are relying on the few.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    You appear to be a bit of a right-wing nutter who is eager to conflate Islamofascism with Islam. So do you work for the Henry Jackson Society, or are you simply a fan of their racist and neo-conservative neo-colonialism?

  149. Ottomanboi says:

    You are a conceited pseud.
    Im 18, already know enough about Islam, thank you.
    Do not dare to teach me!
    Where did you get ‘orientalism’ from reading Said?
    You’re so archetypical in your western hubris.
    What is called an enabler. So full of your own particular very narrow worldview.

  150. OldPete says:

    Thanks Al-Stuart such a gifted response, typical of the usual slurry you write on here. Love the threat ‘your card was marked a long time ago’ oh, worry worry:)

    Cameron think a few intellectually challenged racists are blowing their cover tonight. Well done sir.
    No room for these types in an Independent Scotland, I would hope all descent folk on here would concur

  151. CameronB Brodie says:

    Have I hit a never? 🙂

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    My pleasure. 😉

  153. CameronB Brodie says:

    The thing is, I’m trained to fight racism. So please keep feeding me the opportunity to hand you your arse in public.

  154. Bob Mack says:

    Interesting that Holyrod are having a vote next week on publishing the Salmond case legal advice. The Greens are supporting the rest of the chamber to publish, so it should pass.

    Will the SN Presist a majority vote?

  155. Effijy says:

    What complete drivel with crayons from team Bojo.

    Slide after slide, graph after graph, advisor after advisor, all of whom
    are on the boards of companies profiting from Covid.

    Why couldn’t Bojo just tell everyone the rate of infection is rising exponentially
    and all advisors advise another lockdown is essential to prevent excess deaths.

    As ever he can’t explain the details such as lockdown furlough is being extended?
    Is that at 80%, 70%, or 55%?

    Those that cannot work from home should go to work but don’t go to work.
    If you are over 60 you shouldn’t go to work unless you can go to work.

    If the lockdown must be imposed ASAP, why would it start next Thursday.
    As usual England will go on a bender until next Thursday and spread the virus
    more rapidly.

    If there was a Scottish Party representing us, questions would be asked about
    Why I’m paying VAT to Westminster for purchasing the PPE demanded of me
    and will Scots be expected to take a share of the additional debt that will be generated
    by England’s lockdown and the interest accrued?

  156. frogesque says:

    Fuck me!

    Bojo 2 and 3/4 hours late, still looks spaced out with dilated blinky eyes. Can’t even get a 3rd.year Power Point presentation right, England going down the Swanee, no idea if Scotland will get any consequentials and folk here are arguing over …

    An imaginary friend!

    I fucking give up!

  157. Bob Mack says:

    I’m locked down anyway. Doing the living room decorating top to bottom for Xmas.

  158. Lochside says:

    Great article Grousebeater @ 9.10am, It mirrors my own sentiments exactly. I also read through more of your links and was flattered to see you had copied a contribution of mine from months ago in ‘Wings’.

    But the biggest laugh I had was to see ‘Heedtracker’ ‘s comments about me being a ’77’ plant!

    This entity was a troll who decided or was directed to attack me on a regular basis to the point of derangement until the ‘Rev’ decided to terminate its contributions. I always suspected it was itself a ’77’ plant as it always derailed threads with gibberish about ‘gimps’. However, it will be delighted to know I no longer support the SNP….but unfortunately, will always support Scottish Independence.

  159. CameronB Brodie says:

    Your another who appears happy to allow racists to punt their ideology btl. An ideology that helps support Scotland’s cultural subjugation.

  160. frogesque says:

    CB 8.55

    Im a guy who paints and drops YES Stones, stands with others on windy (today, particularly) Bridges for Indy and supporting the Long Walk To Freedom. (Arbroath on Thursday was pissing wet!)

    I’m 73, tell me exactly what are you doing for Scottish Independence with incessant links to obscure articles and a patronising tone.

    I rarely respond to negative personal comments but really, you call me racist because I don’t belive in an imaginary friend?

  161. Alf Baird says:

    Echoing Lochside, Grouse Beater provides an excellent and accurate synopsis of much of the recent analysis on where we are at.

    What we see with the pampered SNP elite well reflects Frantz Fanon’s postcolonial thesis. Here we have the dominant National Party making its own ‘accommodation with colonialism’ and ridiculing, expelling and persecuting what it calls the more ‘radical’ elements of nationalism. This then gives rise to creation of new National Parties focused on national liberation, we see two already and there may be more coming.

    The SNP has very little time to get its house in order, and if it does not sort itself quickly it will likely wither even more rapidly than Scottish Labour. Membership is now plummeting and the party is clearly in a poor position in cash terms. Its dysfunctional and arrogant leadership and hangers-on have been exposed and need to go. The only problem is that the malaise would seem to include much of the two parliamentary groups. On the basis that leopards don’t change their spots this probably points to new National Party options as being the best or even the only route to independence, which fits with postcolonial theory.

  162. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi susanXX at 6:00 pm.

    You typed,
    “Fuck off! Tell me exactly what Islam brings to Scotland? Absolutely nothing.”

    As a former member of the paramilitary branch of the Church of Scotland, I beg to differ.

    Wearing my other hat (the one covered in pro-indy badges) as a member of Dundee’s Team Yes Bus in 2014/15, I would offer this observation.

    When TYB were having pro-indy stalls in Dundee city centre, we had a bucket for donations to Taught By Muhammed, which was started in 2013.

    TBM ran/runs a foodbank, which was the only one in Dundee that did/do home deliveries, rather than have people, requiring help, go to their premises. They still do good work in Dundee, which is in Scotland.

    Bringing nothing to Scotland?

  163. CameronB Brodie says:

    I certainly didn’t call you a racist, I simply trying to help you understand Islamophobia is related to Scotland’s internal colonisation. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear enough.

  164. Essexexile says:

    Cameron B Brodie

    A heads up pal. Frogesque is Indy royalty. He’s put in a bigger shift than you or I could ever hope to achieve. Respect your elders.

  165. CameronB Brodie says:

    Heads up pal, I wasn’t setting out to upset Frogesque, who appears to have felt insulted, when no insult was intended.

  166. Saffron Robe says:

    Some very good comments re lockdown by CameronB Brodie (@ 4:42 pm) and Tinto Chiel (@ 6:38 pm) above. What I find interesting is that the potency (fatality rate) of the virus appears to have diminished over time. When it first hit the population as a novel virus there was an understandable surge in deaths. But it seems that the immune system has been able to respond to the threat, and although it is no less infectious, it is much less deadly.

    As Tinto Chiel suggests, the best solution would be to protect the vulnerable, particularly the old and those with co-morbidities, and let the rest of the population go about their daily lives.

  167. CameronB Brodie says:

    Saffron Robe
    “But it seems that the immune system has been able to respond to the threat, and although it is no less infectious, it is much less deadly.”

    That’s not what the science suggest, which indicates immunity is likely to be short-lived. You also appear not to appreciate that a “herd-immunity” strategy is simply not a practical or ethical approach to the crises.

  168. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @frogesque (9.24) –

    Many of us are hoping to emulate yourself and folk like the late and much-missed Smallaxe – ‘actions speak louder’ an aw that.

    More power to ye.


  169. Beaker says:

    @frogesque says:
    31 October, 2020 at 8:41 pm
    Fuck me!
    “Bojo 2 and 3/4 hours late, still looks spaced out with dilated blinky eyes.”

    I’ll bet that a lot of pressure was put on him to extend furlough. Given the history of the 1922 Committee, I reckon there was something close to an ultimatum given. It would not have surprised me if a confidence vote followed a refusal to do so.

    Meanwhile in Scotland, I hope the pubs are open on Christmas Eve, or lunch at the Rhoderick Dhu in Glasgow is buggered. Not for drink but go there every year for lunch. They do wicked burgers.

  170. Tinto Chiel says:

    Yes, Saffron Robe, those wishing to flog a virus want you to believe immunity is short-lived. Low antibody blood levels do not equal low immunity to the virus, and T-cell immunity is probably just as important, because so many people have now been exposed. This may partially explain why the virus is much less deadly now. Admittedly , the huge blunder which released infected patients into care homes has been responsible for almost half the Scottish total and much of the damage has sadly been done.

  171. Iain More says:

    R.I.P Sean Connery.

    Yet another Scot that didn’t live long enough to see Scotland Independent and the fault for that lays with the present SNP leadership in my view.

    They should be having a State Funeral for him. He was the Greatest Living Scot till last night.

  172. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @TC –

    Spooks, hobgoblins, trolls, eruptions of sickeningly inexplicable rubbish, and scaretastic heebiejeebieness – it’s all so synchronistically apt, tonight of all nights!

  173. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve pretty much had it with this place, as it appears to be filled with dim-witted or racist troll, anti-vaxcers, or fans of the radical-right. Ffs peeps, get a grip please.

  174. tartandiaspora says:

    love yer links cameron 🙂

  175. bipod says:

    @Tinto Chiel

    Quite so, unfortunately we didn’t here any of those very important caveats when the media was reporting that the imperial study alledgedly showed that immunity wasn’t long lasting.

    Here is a very interesting video by Dr John Campbell on the study and his thoughts on long lasting immunity.

    Unfortunately we are not being guided by science or reason. We are being lead by alarmism and hysteria and also dodgy mathematical models that have not been right once during this entire “pandemic”.

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    Your man bipod simply proves my point. Those who support a herd-immunity strategy probably also deny climate change. They are also likely to support authoritarianism, racism, and misogyny. That’s because conservatism and totalitarianism are grounded in the denial of science. So here’s some expert opinion.

  177. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @bipod –

    I saw some clips on Twitter earlier today which appeared to show Neil Ferguson being interviewed *today* on SKY News, BBC, whatever…

    If that, in itself, doesn’t make folk sit up and question WTF is going on, what will?

    (And if anyone reading this is thinking ‘who the fuck is Neil Ferguson?’ then they really haven’t been paying attention, big-time.)

  178. Al-Stuart says:

    Hi Essxexile,

    Good to see you back here. Nice to see your comments supporting another IndySupporter.


    Hi Frogesque,

    You stand your ground. That Spameron is an ignorant troll. When I posted an academic link for HIM to study, he responds with bile, ad hominem insults and ignores the important scientific link.HE JUST DIDN’t get the irony. Cameron B Brodie wants everyone here’s to look at his links, yet when one of us posts an academic link, he ignores it. Hilariously ironic. This was my earlier rejoinder to Spanerine and it is highly academic…

    Worthy of reflection given the OP Spameron has been spaffing and spawning all over this thread that is, to be ON TOPIC, about Chris Cairns talented artwork and the Covid19 crisis. Yet Sputnikeron starts his exploration of OFF TOPIC things that are of utter nonsense and not even eccentric humour they are so space-cadet in their oblique relationship to Scottish Independence and specifically this or any other thread.


    Hi Ian Brotherhood,

    Thank you for some normality and relevance. Yes it definitely is Halloween with the spooks, hobgoblins, spammers and trolls.

    If it were just this one day… 31st October 2020 I could cope. But CameronD Dobbbie is one Hobbit with a ring piece that has the special power of NARCOLEPSY. He has been patrolling this thread with his pollutant faux-academia linkage to durge for SIX HOURS as of the times between his first AN death latest BTL comment.

    Mea Culpa. After Spameron got rid of Andy Ellis and seems intent of bringing his narcissistic little Wings Over Spameron sub-website show to town with the mission to BORE everyone into compliance that he is, in fact the genius lovechild of JRR Tolkien and Albert Einstein, I am off.

    Will return to read Stuart Campbell’s excellent articles and try to pop in just in case their is a crowdfunder to contribute to or important piece of news form a grown-up.

    But as Stuart hinted heavily, and this is the bit that gets me about Spameron, this is NOT a game, it is not some academic exercise in obscure long lost texts, nor ego.

    No, as Stuart Campbell’s penultimate logic seems to spell out: if Nicola Sturgeon is elected First Minister in May 2021, then that means the SNP have been infiltrated beyond recovery.

    Stuart himself has hinted about shutting up shop for a while until Nicola is found out by the masses and given her jotters.

    All politicical careers end. Nicola Sturgeon is 50 years old. She is the greatest political actress I have ever seen. She fooled Alex Salmond. She fooled the majority of an entire country. So likely she will keep her Borgen TV fiat career as the most powerful (but impotent) Queen of Scots going for another decade.

    That is what irritates me about Spameron. Sturgeon and Humza are about to end free speech in Scotland. We SHOULD be doing something now to wake up our friends in the SNP to the fact they will never get IndyRef2 in their lifetime and there will be MANY MORE ALEX SALMOND style court cases as Nicola’s Waffen McWoke Stormtroopers shut down all dissenter’s Twitter accounts etc.

    Naaaa, the game’s just about up. We are Scottish. Our national football team is traditionally shite. Politically we have been beaten by a cheating treacherous bunch of effete wankkers.

    Renton was right, we cannae even pick a decent bunch of wankkers to be our colonial masters.

    Thanks for the journey, it’s been a blast.

    Cameron, you won. I have work to do and your spaffing all over every thread here makes it difficult to have a decent discourse with any rational human being.

    Though I would have loved to see Stuart Campbell do one last set piece. Write a WBB to get rid McWoke and Sturgeon pollutants. Give us all a chance at IndyRef2. The Wee Yellow Book. Byline: The fake First Minister that ignored six mandates for IndyRef2 and the solution.

    Cheerio. Al.

  179. bipod says:

    Here is a link to the imperial study that has been menitoned above.

    Here is an important quote that is often missed out by the alarmists and lockdown fanatics:

    In addition it is currently not clear what contribution T cell immunity and memory responses will play in protective immunity during re-exposure. As such, it is not possible to say with certainty that the loss of antibody positivity in the LFIA would correlate with an increased risk of an individual being reinfected.

  180. Tinto Chiel says:

    @bipod: thanks for that very interesting video. It’s getting late and I’m off to bed soon but the first 12 minutes I’ve watched have confirmed studies I’ve seen elsewhere re the importance of the T “memory” cells as opposed to antibody response and its levels in the blood.

    I’ve enjoyed your patient scepticism over the last few months re the mainstream response to Covid.

    @Ian B: “Spooks, hobgoblins, trolls, eruptions of sickeningly inexplicable rubbish, and scaretastic heebiejeebieness.”

    What have I told you about guising at your age, young man? 😉 .

  181. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    You’ve no background in public health management, and appear to hold intensely anti-social beliefs re. vaccination. So do yourself and society a favour, and stop supporting the radical-right.

    “….Exposure to the disease, COVID-19, causes symptoms in multiple organ systems across the body, and is not limited to only the lungs and respiratory system as was originally thought. In addition, patients are reporting chronic symptoms, such as fatigue and shortness of breath, that last for months after their original infection.

    The immune system’s response to the SARS-CoV-2 virus is thought to play a part in the appearance of these symptoms, rather than the virus itself, often through facilitating inflammation. This has the ability not only to exacerbate any secondary conditions the patient already has, but also to cause them, as is the case with other viruses, and these may persist for years.

    The full extent of the prevalence of COVID-19 patients who go on to experience longer-term immunological health consequences is not yet fully understood. However, the emerging need for COVID-19 follow-up clinics to treat these chronic symptoms may place an additional burden on the health service”….

  182. Beaker says:

    @Ian Brotherhood says:
    31 October, 2020 at 10:26 pm
    “Spooks, hobgoblins, trolls, eruptions of sickeningly inexplicable rubbish, and scaretastic heebiejeebieness – it’s all so synchronistically apt, tonight of all nights!”

    That is some fucking spelling for a Saturday night 🙂

  183. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Beaker –

    Aye, cheers.

    I’ve included them all in a special crossword which will spark a torrent of complaints and get me sacked.

    So it goes!


  184. bipod says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I saw him being interviewed on the BBC earlier on today, he is a regular on BBC programming. Let us not forget that his original modelling that predicted 500,000 deaths on the UK without a lockdown and 85,000 deaths in Sweden without a lockdown was completely wrong by some degree, he also broke the lockdown rules he helped create so that he could visit his married lover. And that is not mentioning his long career of making wrong predictions.

    I am not really surprised that he is a regualr fixture on the BBC. The BBCs coverage of this entire thing has been shocking from the start. They will only ever interview the most alarmist and hysterical scientists and rarely give a platform to the many eminent experts who completely disagree with the current approach.

  185. Dan says:

    Are any bookies taking bets on when the bog roll wars will start again, or when the one-way systems will be re-introduced back into the Scottish supermarkets?
    My moon walking was getting pretty good for maneuvering outta the wrang dreel without getting huckled for breaking the rules.


  186. Hatuey says:

    Those who argued against lockdown and further restrictions have lost the argument.

    I predicted a few weeks ago that the dynamics of the debate would change dramatically when the bodies started piling up, and that’s what we are seeing.

    That said, what we are calling lockdown these days isn’t real lockdown. As long as schools stay open, the virus will spread and spread.

    The “lockdown” restrictions that are being brought into force in England have been in place in Glasgow for weeks. They’ve hardly made a bit of difference.

    Note to Nicola: Spin won’t work on this virus.

  187. Ruglonian says:

    Some musings, in this witching hour!

    I wonder if you are happy with yourself Cameron.

    The people who are *telling* you that you are a disruptive presence here are the very tip of the iceberg of people so scunnered with you on a daily basis that they don’t even attempt to post anymore.
    (yes, people talk, and that’s been a fact for too long now!)

    I’ve watched the likes of Ronnie post here again when he thought that you were gone.
    I wonder if you are pleased with this domineering behaviour. If it is serving your desired outcome.

    I saw Stu say “same rules for everyone” recently wrt you, so maybe a taste of your own medicine would finally make you realise how consistently out of order you are.
    Many have more spare time than usual just now.
    Something for everyone who is sick of the sight of you to consider.

    Don’t bother replying to me Cameron.

    I haven’t posed you any direct questions.

    We’ve been round in circles about this issue too many times for me to believe that you have anything new to say.

    Ultimately, the issue of your disruption is that it needlessly wastes everyone’s time, so read the room for once and refrain from commenting on my post.

    After all I am posting for the benefit of *everyone* who reads btl – regardless of your exhaustive number of posts, or your sense of entitlement (see earlier with your “so you would rather that I allow”) – you’re just one guy on the internet.

  188. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dan (12.04) –



  189. Dan says:

    If there is going to be elevated pressure on the health services due to covid admissions, are there going to be implications for the supply and delivery of pharmaceuticals required to treat patients in the event of a no deal as the UK leaves the EU.
    Seem to recall there were supply issues for various medicines earlier in the year.

  190. Ruglonian says:

    Dan @ 12.04 – I’m laughing my head off picturing you in a supermarket. Top post man 😀

  191. bipod says:


    I agree alarmism and hysteria has won the day, they have no where near the same level of support they did back in march but it is surprising how easily so much of the population can be propagandized.

    To add some context to the bodies piling up, excess deaths here in october are at perfectly normal levels for what we would expect at this time of year. It is important to remind people that this isn’t the plague, it is a virus that 99.8% of the people who catch it survive.

    Lockdown never ended, it was eased but we never fully came out of it. Over the past two months we have had new lockdown restrictions being added virtually ever week. From the rule of six, mask mandate changes, forced hospitality closures (that happened at the same time schools were on holiday), and there hasn’t been any statistically relevant signal to indicate that any of it has made a difference on the course of the virus. Where is that one month reset that nicola assured us would happen when she closed the pubs? But these new lockdown rules are going to make the difference right? They certainly will finish off what is left of the economy.

  192. CameronB Brodie says:

    It simply isn’t possible to support an economic recovery if we attempt a ‘herd-immunity’ strategy, which is likely to be unachievable and is simply neither practical or ethical.

  193. boris says:

    The shift to the right in policy terms has been accompanied by the rise of a powerful Party bureaucracy.

    Policy is made by employed special advisers rather than members. Corporate lobbyists have easy access to ministers.

    With success in Westminster elections, a large number of MPs and their staff have become dependent on our opponents (the UK State) for salaries and pensions.

    There is a powerful system of patronage and a career ladder to keep aspiring high flyers in line, and ensure their loyalty.

    My own extensive experience over the years confirms that Party HQ and the Leadership now have a deeply ingrained disdain for members and especially for the volunteers who run the branch and constituency networks.

  194. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Way back, months ago, some of us posted links to the Swiss Propaganda Research site.

    That site is becoming harder to find, probably because of ‘search engine optimization’ by interested parties.

    But it’s still there:

  195. Hatuey says:

    bipod, I know it would be convenient for your cut-n-pasted argument if I supported Sturgeon’s strategy and the restrictions she has introduced, but I don’t. Her tinkering at the edges isn’t working and her strategy from the start has been diabolically bad.

    We know how to eradicate coronavirus. It’s very simple. You could stamp it out completely in about 6 or 7 weeks with a real lockdown and measures that stop people from say England bringing it back into the country.

    Throw in a proper track and trace system and you can keep it away, and live completely as normal with everything open, forever.

    Thus, about 99.8% of what you say is inappropriate to any discussion you might have with me on this.

    Incidentally, can you give us a source for your 99.8% figure?

  196. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ian Brotherhood
    Who the fuck are you, as you appear determined to disseminate disinformation and keen to undermine social solidarity?

  197. bipod says:

    I was referencing Prof John Ioannidis’s work for the WHO that estimates an overall covid IFR of 0.23%.

    Except it really isn’t that simple. Name me a single country that has “stamped out” the virus by imposing a lockdown. Even countries like new zealand and australia which have imposed very severe lockdowns, which have lasted much longer than 7 weeks, and lockouts are still having cases. unless you are talking about some theoretical lockdown where people don’t ever leave their houses in those 6 weeks, which isn’t practical in the real world.

  198. Ruglonian says:

    I wonder how many people around the world are getting their first introduction to the cause of Scottish Independence through the outpouring of warm wishes for Sean Connery today?

    Every news article or tv piece that I’ve seen has included his dedication to the cause.
    Anyone seeing the twitter hashtags will see celeb tweets mixed in with quotes like “I’ve always been hopeful about Scotland’s prospects. And I now believe more than ever that Scotland is within touching distance of achieving independence and equality.”

    That, to me, is the mark of a true ambassador. Through the respect that people have for him they will consider his words.

  199. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ruglonian (1.15) –

    Hear hear!


  200. Hatuey says:

    I see that “The Scottish Conservatives will lead a parliamentary debate next week calling on the Scottish Government to publish legal advice they received in the Alex Salmond case….” and ” all opposition parties are supporting the calls for the advice to be released.”

    The Tory slant on all this is going to put emphasis on the waste of public funds in a case that the Government could have predicted it would lose. We can guess that the legal advice will corroborate all this and that the Government was probably warned failure was likely well in advance, begging the question “why did they proceed?”

    On a parallel track there’s the additional issue of Sturgeon misleading Parliament and the Inquiry. From memory, I believe only 25 votes are needed to ensure that there is a vote of no confidence in the FM. Can we assume the Tories would press for that too? Probably but not definitely.

    Maybe the two parties could strike a deal. In return for sticking to the section 30 roadmap and keeping talk of Plan B to a minimum, maybe the Tories could be persuaded to let the lying to parliament issue go…

    Maybe they’ve already struck that deal.

  201. Michael Laing says:

    @Dan at 12.04am: I can tell you the bog-roll wars are well underway already. I was at one of the big Asdas in Edinburgh earlier this afternoon, and they only had 24- and 36-roll packs left. I was just in time to grab one of the few remaining 16-roll packs. Who’d have guessed that the most essential item to human life in the 21st Century is bog-roll? What on earth did people do before it was a thing?

  202. Dan says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    A cannae help masel, it’s the burden of havin an active imagination and tryin to consider how aw thing we see fits intae ma oan and wider reality.
    As a writer you may be interested in the bones of an idea for a book…

    It’s a dystopian romance tragedy based in Scotland in the future… well now really.
    It starts…
    Aw thing is broken wi covid and leavin da EU, folk brawlin and killin each other for a twin pack o’ Andrex or tub o’ Pringles.
    It’s carnage, think The Walking Dead but wi’ much pisher weather.
    After a month o’ the shit hittin the fan big time things begin to settle to a new normal, as most o’ the psychos have taken each other oot and the now starving survivors come out of hiding.
    It’s kind of an autobiography as this is where I, a meat eating bloke, find the only other survivor, who happens to be a smokin’ hot gay vegetarian girl…
    First priority is obviously about locating food and we can deal with the complexities of restarting humanity issue later… so I hotwire a car and we both cruise intae toon slowly reccying aw’ thing oot tae see what’s what.

    It’s grim as fook, smashed up and burnt buildings and cars still smouldering, and crows gnawing on carcasses of the yins lyin’ in the street that didnae make it.

    Anyways, I’m gettin pure weak as wi ma body nae haein a Scotch pie in the best part o’ a month, proper fading in n’ oot o’ consciousness stuff. She’s fairin’ much better with her fit as fook body already acclimatized to runnin’ on just a few lentils and water.
    We travel further and finally arrive at what was once the big Tescos in the nearest toon. It’s trashed, but fuck it we’re here noo so a gither a wee bit o’ strength with the positive hope that there’ll be some scran to sustain life.
    At this point the lass comes oot wi an epiphany that havin’ witnessed my compassionate abilities to assist her she now thinks she’s bi-sexual. Fookin result!
    This lifts ma spirits no end and we find the energy to start checkin’ oot the isles for scran (ignoring the one-way systems coz who fuckin cares noo eh!)
    Well it’s no goin well. There’s loads of L’Oreal shampoo and Persil, but really strugglin’ to find anything tae eat.
    This is totes scunnering me noo and the depressing reality that there is no food hits me hard as we turn intae the last remaining isle.
    At that point she starts jumpin’ around and screamin’ wi’ euphoria and babbling aboot how we can survive and begin to repopulate the world. I’m like wtf? A cannae really tak in whit she’s oan aboot.
    Her shriekin’ somehow awakens me enough to focus and I clock that beyond her amazing naked body the Marmite and Twiglet section is completely full and hasn’t been touched by all the previous marauding scavengers.
    “Fuck that! I’m no eatin’ that shite!” I says, then I die…

    The End

  203. Hatuey says:

    For what it’s worth, I thought ‘The Hill’ was Sean Connery’s best movie by a long shot. It’s a dark anti-establishment job, a far cry from the shallow Bond stuff, but well worth watching.

  204. AberdeenPict says:

    Hatuey says:
    1 November, 2020 at 1:42 am

    Yes, the hill was one of his best movies for me, and also among others, the name of the Rose, ok, he wasn’t a brilliant actor in that film, but it was a great film all the same (according to me). The offence was really gritty and hard hitting, Ian bannon was also great in that film. Too many Sean films to mention.

  205. Hatuey says:

    Okay bipoad, IFR is basically a guess, I assume you know that. CFR generally tells a different story.

    One thing this pandemic has highlighted is the that way data and statistics can be used to paint very different pictures.

    I didn’t say the virus could be stamped out. There are models of control though that have succeeded in keeping infections rates low enough to avoid the need for lockdowns. Singapore is probably the best example – with a population of about 16 million they have had under 50 deaths in total.

    Japan has also avoided a national lockdown and had very low mortality rates. South Korea and others have had similar results, keeping the incidence rates low, businesses open as usual, in most respects if not all, and society free.

    The formula, common to them all, is very simple. You test as much as you can, especially asymptomatic people, you trace, and you put stringent controls on people coming into the country.

    Do all that, make people wear masks in public, avoid unnecessary contact, wash hands more often, etc., and you can open society right up.

    It’s pretty basic stuff. The stupid thing is that our response is much more costly and ineffective.

  206. Hatuey says:

    AberdeenPict, The Name of the Rose was brilliant, I agree. Had a sort of cheap feel to it but the plot was excellent.

  207. CameronB Brodie says:

    I don’t think it unreasonable of me to assume most here lack a professional training in the epistemology of scientific knowledge production and dissemination. This is a perspective that informs my opinion, which is also informed through critical educational and legal theories. So I’m also prepared to experience resistance to ethically, scientifiacly, and legally robust advice. As well as being othered and talked down to by those who do not appreciate my “speech acts” are also ethically informed though critical discourse and feminist theories. Though, of course, I’m very rusty and not infallible. But as the man said, “the time is always right to do what is right”.

    So here’s a look at “The Value of Scientific Knowledge Dissemination for Scientists – A Value Capture Perspective”.

  208. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I’m locking this thread, because I cannot tell you how fucking sick I am of the fighting here.

    Cameron: TAKE A FUCKING DAY OFF ONCE IN A WHILE. You’re nearly a quarter of the comments on this post. Not every single thread needs bombarding with a hundred links to 50,000-word incomprehensible academic papers that ABSOLUTELY NOBODY CLICKS ON. (Trust me, the admin panel shows me what outgoing links people click on.) My readers are not a captive audience for you to show off how clever you are. If that’s what you want, go get your own damn website and see how many people want to hear about interpretative phenomenological analysis of the complexity of the dynamics of systemic ethics relating to intersectional identities.

    Everyone else: if you don’t like Cameron’s comments, FUCKING WELL IGNORE THEM AND SKIP TO THE NEXT COMMENT. How can we be nearly 10 years into this shit and people still don’t have the self-control to just ignore someone they don’t want to engage with? How do I STILL have to keep saying it? You’re grown fucking adults, take some responsibility for yourselves and show some self-discipline. The previous formatting of the links was visually disruptive and I did something about it. Now it’s your turn to play your part.

    The ban hammer is out of the drawer. Next time I see a thread spammed with links about the epistemology of a value-capture perspective, whatever the FUCK that is, or with people going “wah wah I don’t like one of the other kids in this playground, make him go away because it’s intolerable that anyone I don’t like is allowed to exist”, like you were a fucking transactivist or something, it’s getting swung around angrily and indiscriminately and anyone in the way is going to get a battering. You. Have. Been. Warned.

    (And if I see this spat being continued on the next available open thread, God help everyone involved.)

    You think I don’t have enough shit to deal with right now? Fucksake.

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