Hahaha, brilliant as always Chris. 100mph into a brick wall with no airbags. Jump now Hamish.
Marie Clark
6 years ago
Aye that’s about the size of it. I hope Hamish bales out quick before the massive car crash.
Well done Chris.
gerry parker
6 years ago
No seat belt on either. This isn’t going to end well.
Very skillful cartoon Chris.
Robert Louis
6 years ago
Superb, superb, superb. Time for hamish to jump out, and make his way to safety.
Why, in a so-called democracy, is the UK Government operating and making policy in secret? Almost every thing now, we are told, is secret, or as in the case of the brexit impact assessment, redacted.
Is a covert, secretive, UK Government really what brexit means??
[…] Wings Over Scotland
Impact assessment
Read the full article::
Wings Over Scotland
[…]
gus1940
6 years ago
O/T
At last we are getting signs that our wonderful media are coming to their senses and admitting that the apparent signs of detente between N & S Korea is a reaction to Trump’s megaphone warmongering.
To me it is obvious and has been for some time that S.Korea is telling Trump to lay off and stop interfering in something that is none of his business.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Excellent!
Is the rumour true that iEngland plans to relaunch an updated Morris 1000 with plastic body and 600cc two stroke two cylinder engine after Brexit?
Steve Scott
6 years ago
LOL – Every action has an equal and opposite redaction!
jimnarlene
6 years ago
‘Mon Hamish, time to go.
Robert J. Sutherland
6 years ago
Nice touch there, Chris. Everything John Bull says to Hamish now is redacted!
louis.b.argyll
6 years ago
Jump! Scotland.
It’s not a leap of faith that is required, it’s common sense. Return our Nation to its natural state of independence.
What’s normal for every other nation has been disproportionately demonised by a small cabal of power-seeking aristocrats, politicians, media owners and paranoid middle-class hangers-on.
Robert J. Sutherland
6 years ago
And you can bet your house on the redacted word being “not”…
(…in fact, come to think of it, that’s exactly what we’re doing. Betting the house…)
It’s only a Minor detail. The good ship UK is rudderless,leaderless, and worst of all clueless.
How on earth can people entrust their and their children’s future to such a collection of imbeciles. It’s true what they say about people being easily led to disaster, spurred on by the application of bigotry,racism and xenophobia liberally applied by politicians and media.
I am actually coming to the incredible conclusion that the SNP he to get hold of the whole of the UK and shake it back to its senses. I know that would never happen, but there is something very disconcerting about watching Engerrlund destroy itself through hatred of others, laced with arrogance and superiority, albeit with no ability at all.
We need to gain control of the asylum before the lunatics.
dave Stewart
6 years ago
Chris
Is the wall the one that the mundell is negotiating with trump’s mega company. The rumour is that an Italian Legion is going to rebuild the one at Carlisle, it will have customs booths, pill boxes, trrop accomodation and tank traps, just to keep out the Pictish Scots.
An Irish one is also on the cards, but top secret, maybe I’ll get a visit for the disclosure. I visited the downstairs vault guarded by a tory lizard and sneaked a look at the building warrent, it’s on velum of course.
louis.b.argyll
6 years ago
Let’s run our small country based on;-
Our sense of right-and,wrong.
Our sense of economic-risk.
Our own natural resources.
Our respected academic community.
Our international relationships.
Our productivity.
OUR FUTURE.
louis.b.argyll
6 years ago
I suggest, post independence- rewrite all PFI contracts, divert the payments. Spread mayhem throughout financial & legal systems, cause a FTSE/Pound crash!
That’s the effect, caused by EXPLOITATION of PUBLIC FUNDS by Westmimster and their greedy chums. Let’s start risking THEIR livelihoods. Stop fucking with the poor people.
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Morgatron says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:33 am:
“Hahaha, brilliant as always Chris. 100mph into a brick wall with no airbags. Jump now Hamish.”
That vehicle looks very like a Morris Minor convertible, Morgatron, thus Chris made certain there were no air bags fitted in such an old car.
Chris never misses a trick and the small detail is always just spot on as he hammers nails on the head.
carjamtic
6 years ago
Ae fond kiss,goodbye old England.
geeo
6 years ago
Brilliant as ever!!
This seems wholly appropriate ..
EU negotiator Michel Barnier warns Brexit transition period ‘not a given’
I was talking to some Irish folk last week and their summation of Westminster in two words, ‘Feckin Eejits’. They’re also desperate to see how the DUP and their Westminster Lap-dogs resolve the unsolvable, how to create a ‘friction less Border a fact restated by Barnier only yesterday. They also pointed out that the four ‘Border Counties'(Bandit Country) voted to ‘Remain’ with only the old heartlands of the DUP voting leave, a point Mrs May would do well to take note of.
Unless it’s a PFI wall and will crumble on impact, England’s fecked.
Ace, as per, Cairns.
I’ve just listened to Davidson on the Radio Forth Phone In. She really is an empty headed little self promoter, isn’t she? She was in good company. I take it that this is standard fare for ‘Scoddish’ steam radio these days?
‘When they phoned me up, and asked me tooo dooo this’. Aye, right.
The sooner she fuck’s off to the Motherland, the better.
The sooner we hold Indyref 2, the sooner we get rid of this evil little bunch of chancers.
artyhetty
6 years ago
Fabulous. What’s the blacked out word, must be a secret.
I have heard a few people say ‘Brexit’s not gonna happen’ and ‘there will be another referendum’. Oh dear which planet?
No words really as to the shambles of the past week. North Korea might be an attractive place once the UK Torygov, on full turbo power remove pretty much every human right and freedom from the lowly ordinary folk of their rancid UK.
Scotland get your socks on, time is running out to escape. :-{
Bob Millar
6 years ago
I wondered whether instead of calling her Colonel Davidson we start a theme of ‘Begging Bowl Betty’ instead. Because one of the major differences between those of us on the YES side and the Unionists is that we are clear that we want to stand on our own two feet economically whereas Unionists are willing, in effect, to sponge off English taxpayers (saying eg Scotland is an economic basketcase ). This theme might also go down well amongst those older voters who generally don’t want to feel they are subsidised.
1. A humiliating climbdown for the UK and Theresa, giving in to EU demands. We know Theresa will not back down in order to save face and protect her ego and vote Base.
2. Hard Brexit. Exit Europe with nothing but your pride. The current lack of Statesmanship means this is the more likely outcome. The population will be encouraged to show them they were wrong.
It is heading for the wall. No doubt about it. We must be ready to use that fact.
Please, Nobody tell me now the SNP are not playing this to perfection. Never interrupt your enemy while they make mistakes.
ronnie anderson
6 years ago
Aye Tereza’s Brexitears thought it would be ah Breeze to leave the EU & the world’s largest trading Block with no penalties .
Great toon Chris U could draw a wall fur Trump he’s having some difficulties building his .
Valerie
6 years ago
Haha, brilliant. Run, Hamish!!!
Wonder if the Mars bar blacked out word refers to the secret papers? Reading that secret squirrel tosh was like reading some kind of Forsyth spy plot.
Ludicrous.
Fred
6 years ago
The acting Chief Constable of Polis Scotland has just issued an apology to the MacLeod family in Wick who maintain that their son was murdered there over 20 years ago & have had no justice whatsoever from the Northern Constabulary. An enquiry is promised & as there are other murder cases in the Northern Constabulary’s patch with unsatisfactory outcomes, Iain Livingstone might be a busy man!
This is the kind of parochial policing that Leslie Riddoch & Willie Rennie, through rose-tinted glasses, think is appropriate for Scotland in the 21st century!
Flower of Scotland
6 years ago
Well done Chris, says it all, really! You are so clever with all the wee nuances.
@gus1940
I agree about N and S Korea. I wish the “whole” world would tell the USA and all her “best buddies”, to stop interfering in the affairs of other countries. Of course the USA don’t want peace in Korea. Peace would mean that they can’t be there and they want to keep threatening N Korea and China.
Dave McEwan Hill
6 years ago
Bob Mack at 9.47
Exactly
galamcennalath
6 years ago
“We’re at a whole new level of Brexit chaos and uncertainty ”
Kirsty Hughes
Robert Louis @7.55am. “Why is the UK government operating and making policy in secret”
Their actions and policies are not going to be in the interests of the population
For the Tories “Taking back Control” is all about the Tories regaining control of their serfs.
We’re heading back to Rip off Britain of the 1970’s and beyond.
And they will do anything to make sure they are in control of the process.
Chris and Greg Moodie are doing a talk/show at The Summerhall`s Edinburgh (Meadows area)at 3 this afternoon,tickets are free and there was a rumour Greg was buying the drink (or a drink),
Those of us lucky enough to have our own cuddly Hamish will be giving him a cuddle, to protect him from that crazy John Bull 🙂
Robert J. Sutherland
6 years ago
artyhetty @ 09:34,
It’s “not”. As in “It will NOT be fine”.
But you and I mustn’t know that. We only pay these wasters their undeserved wages, so we don’t matter.
So just go back to eating your cereal and let them get on with the driving…
HandandShrimp
6 years ago
Jump Hamish, the old Moggie took about 30 seconds to get to 60 and it was a push to go much faster than that.
An appropriate choice of vehicle to depict the UK negotiating team come to think of it.
Bill not Ben
6 years ago
He is driving towards hadrians wall from the scottish side, i do hope he notices that hadrian did not build walls with tunnels.
He is a bit of a doughnut so we better wait and see if he notices and puts the brakes on, but knowing him, he probably thinks he’s ok with a parachute in the boot lol
Macart
6 years ago
That’ll leave a mark. 🙂
auld highlander
6 years ago
o/t
Two government flunkies delivered a letter and it cost us a mere £1000.
Cracker Chris.. the question is who benefits from this, who is waiting on the other side of the wall to pick up the salvageable bits and leave all the shit for us mere mortals. Health care companys from Merica will be waiting with contracts prepared!!
The only thing keeping the economy of the UK from collapsing into a hole is the fact that it is still currently an EU member. It still has access to the CU and single market. The final shape of the UK’s relationship with and access to the EU is as yet unknown. The link above was a hiccup caused by the very thought that the UK would crash out of the EU without any access.
Imagine if you will, the carnage that will ensue if a hard brexit becomes the reality. None of the three options currently available will leave the UK better off. NONE.
Only one other option not on that super secret document will see Scotland’s population avoid this criminal act of greed driven ideological self harm.
Probably also worth mentioning one other thing in relation to their secret squirrel approach to the Brexit settlement and their sudden public shyness.
The utter hypocrisy of it all.
After indyref 2014, Scotland’s population were bombarded with state backed media releases on every Scotland bill vote. The Smith commission talks were the daily fair of the media. Talk of and action on, EVEL by Cameron was seen as fully in the public interest. The humiliation (see under punishment) of Scotland’s SNP Westminster representation, the SNP administration and the indy voting public, required fucking reading for all of the past three and a quarter years.
Seems though, that when the boot is on the other foot… it’s one rule for some and quite another for HMG. The public interest…
It was in the public’s interest to be fully informed BEFORE any EU ref was ever put before them. It was in the public interest to have access to ALL the facts pro and contra EU membership. It was in the public interest to be made FULLY aware of the consequences of any given scenario of leaving the EU regarding the economy, Northern Ireland agreements, the standing UK devolution settlements and the pledges made to Scotland’s electorate on the 2014 indyref. It was in the public’s interest that they went into any EU ref with the full agreement of the devolved parliaments (they do constitute nation partners, right?) and that contingencies for both votes were in place.
Those were in the public’s interest.
Given the utter and complete lack of ALL of the above. It would appear to me however, that the public’s interests were never really considered at all.
manandboy
6 years ago
Another superb cartoon, Chris, crafted as usual with the aid of a scalpel.
Fixitfox
6 years ago
Perfect symbolism for The British Empire heading for a very hard Brexit.
Cactus
6 years ago
The UK will be a write off.
That’s why Hamish is saving Scotland.
Notice how JB is driving in a sleepy hypnotic trance.
And they all lived happily ever after.
The End.
Fin.
jfngw
6 years ago
O/T
I saw Andrew Neil getting very excited when someone from right wing think tank (I don’t think this was actually mentioned just IEA so if you didn’t know what it was you were in the dark) telling us the NHS needs more privatisation and she had the numbers to prove it she claimed.
More money would not make it any better, it is the fact that is not private/insurance based that is the problem apparently. If only she could point to a public service that improved after privatisation that didn’t involve massive increases in cost I may have taken her more seriously.
Maybe the BBC’s next task will be to soften up the public for the next big privatisation.
fillofficer
6 years ago
no crumple zone in a moggie & no transition period in brexit, its a car crash right enough, great toon chris
call me dave
6 years ago
@Macart
Much true in what you are saying there.
Great cartoon again.
My Hamish, tucked into the RH corner of my windscreen, never flinches on our travels…had a few folk notice him too!
I remember well,when younger, adding those little dalek indicator bulb things to a Morris 1000 to replace the defunk old flip up indicators for my father-law who owned such a beastie while I was in a sporty triumph 2000 🙂
dakk
6 years ago
Nice one Chris.
Though I still think JB will crap his Union Jack Y fronts and veer away at the last second.
The brinkmanship used by the arrogant entitled British is probably just a charade to appease the hard brexiteers.
Soft Brexit dressed as hard,is their game IMO.
Marker Post
6 years ago
I had this vision while listening to Gary Robertson’s interview with Stephen Kerr, of the penny slowly dropping across Scotland as No Voters realise that all the warnings given out by the SNP were not just doom and gloom, but that the SNP has actually been right all along. And that those former No Voters will say to the Tories, “Ah, you know what? Just do what you want, but we’re off”.
In the interview yesterday, Kerr admitted that he hadn’t even read the impact assessments yet, but had “every confidence” that Theresa May would “get the best deal for Britain”.
That mantra sticks in my craw, even worse than the “strong and stable”. But I hope they keep on using it, it has a drip-drip effect.
I’ve noticed lately that brexiteers on radio and press reviews are now claiming that the financial consequences don’t matter..
It’s all about sovereignty and getting back independence.. Financial forecasts are unreliable as know one knows the future also..
We don’t even need to make a case for Indy ref 2…
Oh silly me, different rules for British nationalists and us peasants..
Robert Louis
6 years ago
Regarding the cartoon,
Driving into a brick wall, just sounds so very, very ‘british’. Yet another blunder under the banner of rule britannia stupidity. Brexit means brexit, we’re doing it no matter what, who cares if we trash the country and Scotland too, who cares if we end up with no fresh fruit and veg on the shelves, who cares if thousands lose their jobs and their homes. Time to do or die.
Just like Balaclava, eh brexiteers. It is not for us to question why.
“..Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred…”
From ‘The charge of the light brigade’
Alfred Lord Tennyson.
Auld Rock. Heh, maybe that’s the solution to EU/ UK/ NI. To redraw the border to the DUP heartlands that voted Leave and for the four border counties that voted Remain to rejoin the Republic?
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Robert Louis says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:55 am:
“Is a covert, secretive, UK Government really what brexit means??”
Don’t know about that, Robert Louis but I had Radio Jockland on as background noise this A.M.and heard some officious sounding English female stridently bemoaning the facts about Barnier and the European Union officials stance in relation to the United Kingdom Government, (a.k.a. the de facto Parliament of the Kingdom of England).
I wasn’t really listening until I became aware of what the female was moaning about, so I have no idea who, or what capacity she represented for the United Kingdom.
I found it very telling that every point she bemoaned, (i.e. the claimed lack of consultation with the Tory United Kingdom Government; the claimed European Union’s dictatorial attitude towards the United Kingdom/English parliament and so on), exactly mirrored how the Westminster Establishment has treated the Kingdom of Scotland since 1706/7.
The difference being that the United Kingdom is one of 28 equally sovereign member states of the European Union while the, so called, United Kingdom is legally supposed to be a bipartite union of two equally sovereign kingdoms but Westminster has never treated the union as such.
The brainless English female obviously couldn’t perceive the irony of her idiotic bleating and obviously wouldn’t appreciate that the European Union Officials, on the United Kingdom announcing BRUKEXIT, had immediately adopted the line, (and rightly so), that the negotiated and agreed Freedoms of the European Union could not be cherry picked by Westminster and that there would be no special deal for Westminster. They have not changed that stance one jot since.
It was always the case that the freedoms were sacrosanct and would not be changed to suit Westminster. It was always the case that Westminster must either accepted all freedoms together or they got none of them.
It certainly seems now that they will indeed get none of them.
Dan Huil
6 years ago
Eton wall game? Or just an Eton mess.
Alastair
6 years ago
galamcennalath says:
10 February, 2018 at 8:15 am
Excellent!
Is the rumour true that iEngland plans to relaunch an updated Morris 1000 with plastic body and 600cc two stroke two cylinder engine after Brexit?
Yes, it will be the only vehicle built in the UK and the only one available to buy. There will also be a 2 year waiting list to get one, and when your happy day arrives it will almost certainly break down on the way from the factory! East Germany used to have such an icon of automotive engineering, it was called a Trabant!
MJSDundee
6 years ago
Naw, that’s wrong! : )
It’s more like a bunch of monkeys in the back seats fighting over who gets to wave the steering wheel around.
None of them are conscious that they’ve pulled the steering wheel off of its stalk a while back, and no one is actually steering anything.
The rest of us are watching it in ultra slow motion.
We know exactly what’s going to happen, the wall or cliff edge is inching closer, but there’s just no telling they daft monkeys. All they’re interested in is their own stupid squabbling …
M.
call me dave
6 years ago
Just like that eh! Just saw this posted on WOS twitter.
Am sprucing myself up to attend your Summerhall do, Chris. For once I’m in the right city on the right day, at the right time. Better be worth the rip-off parking fees!
Your essential weekend reading:
Another funny film from Aardman: link to wp.me
How to look after your car: link to wp.me
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Bob Millar says: 10 February, 2018 at 9:39 am:
“This theme might also go down well amongst those older voters who generally don’t want to feel they are subsidised.”
Aye! Bob, but some of we older people knew full well that Westminster was ripping Scotland off ever since 1st May 1707 and have spent our entire life telly you and the other people of Scotland the facts – thing is you and those other younger people of Scotland were not listening and many of you who are now telling the tale told us we were, “The lunatic fringe”, and militant terrorists.
For Example we knew about the MacCrone Report but no one listened to us then. Yet now it seems it’s all the fault of the older generation, according to the now converted to the truth.
Did you know that it’s Scotlands xenophobic racist attitude towards England and the SNPs hatred of the English that’s making *Englands* Brexit more difficult and expensive because of Sturgeons incessant interferences, and she should be co-operating with the government or stay out of it
I read that this morning, on how many convoluted levels of stupid can you be to think even remotely like this
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Bill not Ben says: 10 February, 2018 at 11:19 am:
“He is driving towards hadrians wall from the scottish side …
There isn’t a, “Scottish Side to Hadrian’s wall, Bill not Ben.
Not only was it was built long before there was an England and Scotland but it is 100% well within what is The Kingdom of England and thus both sides are in England. But don’t tell the English that as they seem so certain that the wall was specifically built to keep the Scots out of England.
If we don’t tell them the real truth we will get a chunk of England when we take back our independence.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Alastair says:
East Germany used to have such an icon of automotive engineering, it was called a Trabant!
I know. That’s what I was hinting at. But maybe I’m too much of a car geek 🙂
The Trabant’s body wasn’t just plastic, it was plastic made from the waste products of other industries!
I have noticed a few automotive vibes. At one point BMW were suggesting moving the Mini out of the UK if there were tariffs. Also, in the last few days Japanese companies have been giving similar warnings. Brexit could be the last straw for UK car production if it goes wrong.
It all goes beyond that. The reason why so many companies invested in the UK was because it gave a gateway to the rest of the EU. Any and all of that is at risk.
Odd world, though. I get the impression that the English regions most likely to be hurt most by Brexit are Leave strongholds. Remain areas will be hit least. I would be reticent to go as far as to say … justice. No ordinary folk win with Brexit, anywhere.
geeo
6 years ago
March 29th 2019 really could mean a sudden and sharp cliff edge brexit, with no transition deal.
This would be an utter catastrophy for uk business and industry.
On the other hand, it would be apparent a whole lot sooner, to everyone in Scotland (and ruk), that our economy would be decimated and Indy support would surely soar.
Make no mistake here, WM only wants a transition deal for one reason.
If there is a transition period, then the worse effects of brexit are hidden from Scots for another 2 years. (2021)
So, to hold an indyref in 2018 early 2019, as the deal goes to the EU for ratification/scrutiny, it (EU deal) can still be presented by WM as “not as bad as claimed”, which could help WM retain some No voters or waverers.
An absolute cliff edge brexit with no transition means the negative effects will be well under way before the No Deal/No Transition Deal is announced, will sharply focus Scots thinking between No to utterly disasterous brexit, or a Yes vote to independence, and getting our own deal to remain in the EU/Single Market/Customs Union.
I believe the latter scenario would result in a resounding Yes vote.
WM are desperate for No EU influence on our laws after march 29th 2019, but desperate to retain a transition arrangement, to facillitate a false sense of wellbeing, in the hope of fending off a Yes vote in late 2018/early 2019.
No transition deal is a disaster for WM in the battle to keep Scotland tied to the union.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Dr Jim says:
on how many convoluted levels of stupid can you be to think even remotely like this
I had a conversation with an English acquaintance a few months back. She commented about Humza Yousaf not being Scottish so how could he be in the SNP?
I replied that he lives and works here and behaves like a Scot, so he must be one. Also, I said he was probably born here (which he was) but being born in Scotland isn’t a qualification for the SNP. We have lots of English members.
I went on to say I have never been to an SNP event without hearing some English accents. And, we have English born elected representatives.
Turned out to be quite a revelation because she had previously believed the whole ethnic Scots anti English thing. It seems many do. Sad, actually.
Cactus
6 years ago
Aye, “It will all be fine” mumbles he.
John Bull has been told that all he has to do is hit the ‘Turbo Boost’ button to try and clear the wall (which they built all by themselves). Although little does he know, their cliff edge awaits immediately beyond their wall.
Knight Industries Two Thousand technologies.
Impact assessment not looking good.
Happy landings, not.
“Pity, such a pity” says David Bowie (fae Labyrinth)
“Ride on, see you, I could never go with you…” says Hamish.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
geeo says:
If there is a transition period, then the worse effects of brexit are hidden from Scots for another 2 years. (2021)
Indeed. I have a very strong feeling too that this is central to their thinking. Make it through to Holyrood2021 in the hope of getting a BritNat majority, again.
However, there has been discussion on here about the Tories doing the exact opposite. If a hard Brexit looks inevitable, they would be best having IndyRef2 soon and using the threat of a hard border to keep the gullible and switherers voting NO.
We will know sooner than later what the probable style of Brexit will be. If it’s hard, there is no hiding the consequences.
Liz Rannoch
6 years ago
Love it, Chris.
Get oot o’ that heap Hamish! It’s the look on JB’s face – eyes open but not seeing (or ignoring) what’s in front of him. Does he really expect it to just disappear?
A few months ago we managed to get a lovely newish car (thanks to my dear old mum, god bless) and I’ve been trying to persuade Mr R that we splash out on a private plate for it. Needless to say it’s going to be a bit obvious and he’s worried that ‘the yoons’ll get it, do in the windaes or the tyres’. What to do?
Interesting move by Westminster. Apparently they are going to allow ex pats to vote in British elections.
We all know what they are hoping to do here. Unionists absent from Scotland for decades will vote Unionist . Could damage the SNP.
Doug Daniel has it on twitter
uno mas
6 years ago
@ Scott Finlayson 12.35pm
HEY YOU!!
The Hillman Imp was built in Linwood (no more) as well you know!
The one I had was the coopay model (true) and was a smashing wee motor.
Man the burds I pulled with that.
Aye happy daze, happy daze indeed. -:)
Robert Graham
6 years ago
Now that’s an interesting little titbit posted by Call me Dave – why at this point in time and amid much confusion would the English government want to relax the rules on ex pat voting registration , This lot play the long game and despite what a lot of folk imagine they are not lazy or indeed stupid ,
This added to Fluffys little empire building of what appears to be a parallel government in waiting, presently being assembled in Edinburgh , the only reason would appear to be this is being set up to administer the repatriated powers from the EU ,
Fluffy is in the process of covering his arse regarding these powers, his comments regarding these powers being returned will prove correct because he never actually said that they would be returning to our parliament just retuning.
There is just now in the background a straight jacket being set in place in order to strangle the Scottish parliament by a whole series of unconnected moves that will totally nullify any and all power Holyrood presently have.
Indy ref 2 has started ,the Unionists are well up to speed and are beavering away out of sight , why has Fluffy and the rabid sidekick who appears weekly at FMQs been posted missing ? , they ain’t on bleeding holiday, I really hope Nicola and the SNP leadership are on this and have prepared to cut this lot off before they complete what they have started , this lot are playing for time , and as far as I can see are not being openly hindered in their work .
galamcennalath
6 years ago
OT attitudes to women.
This utterly astonishing interview from 1970 has appeared in the last few days.
I have also read that Winnie Ewing had a tough time at WM, because she was female not because she was SNP.
I could say, “changed days”, but for some creepy men in WM, I’m not so sure it has gone away.
Marie Clark
6 years ago
I find the suggestion to give ex pats the vote in UK elections absolutely outrageous. A requirement of the voting system should be that you actually live in the feckin country that your voting in.
I’m sorry, these folk chose to go and live somewhere else, so as far as I’m concerned they should have no say in what happens here. I agree with Bob Mack as to the reason why the want to do this, but naw. Jist naw.
Just hearing about the UK Guv set to extend voting rights to “expats”
So many folk who live work and pay tax here DON’T get to vote but folk abroad who neither work here, pay tax here or indeed contribute here in any meaningful way, can vote!
Somebody at Whitehall must have been tasked with the job of calculating the numbers on how many votes for or against the Tories there are in this
Or could it be there are more folk against Scottish Independence abroad than in Scotland, because the Tories are not doing this just to be nice to people
Or might it possibly maybe mibbees huv jist a wee bit tae dae wae postal votes being dead easy to fiddle especially overseas ones, the British Army Scottish Referendum ones comes tae mind a wee bitty
Let’s just see how many “British” forces are seconded to Scotland before the next Indyref
They stop our kids voting, they stop our immigrants voting
they might as well just put Scotland under martial law
Christ! I might’ve put that idea in their heids noo
If they go through with this subversion of the voting system which is bad enough as it is they’ll just encourage the other side of the Independence argument who’ll be far less pleasant than we are
Maybe that’s what they want though, Ireland all over again, except this is Scotland and there’s a hell of a lot more angry members of that team than Ireland ever had
Cactus
6 years ago
” I_ w_l_ ‘blank’ b_ f_n_. ”
Even that is odd.
Next p_g_.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
uno mas says:
Hillman Imp
It had a lot going for it. IMO a much better designed car than the Mini, despite all the hoo-ha and nostalgia surrounding the BMC offering. The Imp had an all aluminium engine block and sophisticated clutch gearbox system. And better use of space.
It was let down by poor manufacturing quality control. That must have been a Chrysler management issue. In general, though, UK cars were miles behind Japanese ones in terms of reliability. Nissans and Hondas from 1970 onwards came as a shock to UK manufacturers.
uno mas
6 years ago
Regarding expats voting in GB elections.
I live and run a business in the expat community in Spain (have done so for 14 years) and I come across very few Scots.
I don´t reckon that more than 5% of the expat population is Scottish.
So I don´t think it would make much difference to the vote regarding Scotland.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Marie Clark says:
I find the suggestion to give ex pats the vote in UK elections absolutely outrageous.
Quite so. By extension, they might want ethnic Scots living elsewhere in the UK to be able to vote in IndyRef2. That would be equally outrageous.
Democracy should always be about residency not ethnicity.
120,000 in the EU alone. Many many more in Canada Australia.
Number could be quite large. No exact figure as Scotland is not recorded as a Nationally, but probably around 8- 10% of total expats worldwide. It will be significant.
The SG has now acquired some powers over the electoral system (not sure exactly what, tho), and consequently are running a consultation on electoral reform. Runs until 12.March. It can be found at:
Seems to me anyway that residence is an essential qualification for the right to vote in any and all Scottish elections, but whatever, you can make your own views known where it might really do some good!
Lots of American and Canadian Scots who knows how they’d vote, OK not many in Spain or France, but that’s hardly the point which is, no taxation without representation and it surely must work the other way round, no representation without taxation unless the government in England proposes to tax “expats” (bloody hate that stupid word) and in that case do the “expats” want to be taxed for not living in a country and not contributing to it
I could see a court case
Fred
6 years ago
The new biog’ of John Maclean “The Red & the Green!” by Gerard Cairns is available at Calton Books at the Barras! Just bought a copy £7.
artyhetty
6 years ago
Hard to believe that those who emigrated away from the UK, ie immigrants to other lands, would have a vote in UK elections. Something sinister there, but what’s new.
This idea is for the rich and powerful, who will be leaving promptly when the s**t really hits the fan re their brexit. They will become ‘expats’ and still want a vote in UKOK elections. I don’t think so.
heedtracker
6 years ago
More hard to read wall crashing,
Out, Out, Out!
Brexiteers Are Driving Britain into a Wall
I’m an “expat”. I and my husband pay tax and NI in the UK. Why should we not be allowed to vote? Just because we happen to work and live overseas?
I think you’ll find that many of the EU citizens working and living in the UK are still able to vote in their own countries too.
I’m Scottish and voted Remain. If I had been allowed to vote in Indy1, I’d have voted Yes.
No matter where in the world I have been, there are always plenty of Scots living and working there. Do you consider them no longer Scottish then?
“Spittin feathers now. GRRRRRRRR”
jfngw
6 years ago
Ex-pats to regain vote, well that will see a large increase in postal votes for the Tories to ‘have access to’ prior to the polls closing. Nothing fishy there then! I wonder if there will be a large increase and high turnout of these voters.
Daisy Walker
6 years ago
Re car manufacturing in the UK and EU. Up to now the owners of the factories have held off on updating/changing the infrastructure in the UK factories for the change over to all electric cars.
At the same time many of their factories in the EU have been upgraded to produce either or in terms of oil burning or electric, with a view to going all electric soon.
If they have to up sticks from the UK, its not the end of the world for them.
Re expats getting the vote. Very alarming. How many of English origin, will game the system and claim Scotland as their area for voting. Rather a lot I suspect.
As a consolation when we have Indy ref2 we set the terms. Hope we get a move on soon.
Thanks Nana for all the links.
The penny is beginning to drop for folks I think, but there’s nothing joyous about the ‘I told you so’s. The guy who fixes my car was a No voter. When the car went in for its MOT in January this year, he told me about the disaster that is Brexit. ‘People don’t realise just how big this is, all the car parts, all of them, come from Europe, and that’s just cars.’
Nothing personal, but the voting system will probably be postal in nature. As you may be aware there have been queries about that methodology being suitable shall we say for “Adjustment”.
Tatu3
6 years ago
Bob Mack
No apologies needed. I can see that there could be problems with postal votes, and I understand the need to sort this out, but I find the btl comments very anti “expats” on this site.
We are not all “rich”, we are not all “unionists” or “Brit nats”. We have not all given up on an independent Scotland.
I imagine the percentages of “yes” and “no” voters of Scots overseas probably work out the same as those in Scotland – or maybe even more in favour, as I have found Scots abroad tend to be more proud of Scotland when away from home.
I still have family and friends in Scotland. Not all are Yessers, sadly, and I work very hard to try and convince them to change
Tatu 3 – with this new voting system I believe you and your husband should be able to vote, the old ‘no representation without taxation’ or whatever. If you are required by your work to live and work abroad but pay tax here in Scotland do you have an ‘S’ on your payslip/P60? This should be the deciding factor on whether ‘expats’ could vote in Scottish elections.
I also believe this will be abused by the system.
My hubby has relatives who have been in Canada for over 50 years. I don’t think they should have the vote.
I lived and worked in Spain for 12 years and paid my tax in Spain also my wealth tax on my property in Spain plus my business tax because I was registered there even though I was Extranero
My question @tatu3 is how were you asked to pay tax in the UK if registered in another country unless you have an address in the UK and or business or property requiring a UK tax code or unless you are member of HM Armed forces and not considered domiciled
I’m genuinely puzzled
Legerwood
6 years ago
I have noticed a few comments above about recent comments from the Japanese with respect to Brexit and its likely effects on their investments in UK.
This should not have come as a surprise to the UK Government because way back in September 2016 the Japanese sent a very detailed, 15 page letter to the UK Government setting out what it wanted/needed from the Brexit negotiations if it was to continue with its investments in the UK.
Here is a link to an article published at the time in the Guardian. link to archive.is
I think some of the comments at the time were along the lines of ‘the Japanese have produced more than the UK Government hasconcerning negotiations and what is required from them’ That still appears to be the case.
Legerwood
6 years ago
Expat voting in UK elections.
They always have been able to vote but it is time limited under what is known as the 15-year rule.
The UK Government published plans in 2016 to scrap this rule but had certainly not done so in time for the 2017 general election.
To make this change would require an Act of Parliament I believe.
There was a Commons Library briefing paper on the subject published in January 2018. Here is a link to it
Independence Live crowd funder – 94% and 15hours to go.
Come guys, no good moaning about the EBC & other sh:tes.
Also remember your daily TSTV.
We need every platform to get the word out there.
Artyhetty
6 years ago
re;Tatu@4.15
Not ‘anti expat’ at all, not in the slightest and no idea why anyone would think that. But, questioning the ethics and validity of allowing those who have not lived in the UK for many years, to have a major vote in what happens to the country, (though we know that the ‘UK’ is not in fact a country) politically.
I have family in Australia, who have lived there for over 25 years, I love them. I do not however want them to have a vote in the UK. Their knowledge of and interest in UK politics is minimal at best, they have an expat conservatism, which is not relevant in the politics of a country they do not live in. That’s relevant to their own Australian political arena.
Their knowledge if any, and information of UK politics, comes from their own biased media. It’s bad enough people in the UK not being properly informed, but to allow folks to put a cross on a sheet of paper who are even less likely to be informed, is dangerous imo.
yesindyref2
6 years ago
Well, they do call them Moggy Minors, Rees-Mogg will be so pleased.
handclapping
6 years ago
And its a cut and shunt pretending to be a convertible! Get out now Hamish!
Like the UK it was alright in its day but despite May and Mogg we may not get back to the glory days of 1948. More likely chaos of the early 70’s; the power cuts, petrol rationing and permanent financial crises before we got into the Common Market as it was then.
Great toon, Chris.
yesindyref2
6 years ago
@H&S
I had 2 of them, an 848 split-screen and a 998, with a standard tolerance of a thou, I smoothed out mine and tuned them, valves lapped the lot – all standard parts, and kept going by knowing every scrappie around. I broke a crankshaft in two on the 998 after a 90 mile measured on the A1 / M1 by speedo and mileposts at 95 mph.
As I always say, it’s not the car that’s slow, it’s the driver.
Fireproofjim
6 years ago
Comments re allowing ex-pat Scots to vote in Inderef2 assume that the Scottish Government would agree to it. Unlikely.
However a trade-off could be to ban English ex-pats in Scotland from voting in the Referendum
Can’t have it both ways.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Re ex pat Scots. The largest group will be living in England. When they won’t be exposed to campaigning, only the most politically engaged will bother exploring the real issues behind our bid for Indy.
I may be wrong, but I suspect many would vote to maintain the Union because as residents in England they will consider that to be in their personal interests.
Approx. 750,000 people living in England were born in Scotland. Over half a million could register to vote if it were allowed. That could be 1 in 8 voters!
I think it wrong that they can so fundamentally effect Scotland’s future when many of them will probably never move back.
Of course in all things there are always exceptions, like The Rev himself.
As for the rest of the world, I see figures of about quarter of a million. To be honest I think them more likely to vote YES, especially those in the EU.
However, a simple and fair approach IMO is only those who have been resident in Scotland for a reasonable time should vote in Indyref2.
Meg merrilees
6 years ago
Re Brexit and slightly O/T
Latest plan i’ve read concerns fruit growers who are now planning to grow their raspberries and blueberries in China because they don’t think they’ll get enough migrant workers to pick them next summer.
An Angus farmer hashed to throw away hundreds of tons of food because there were no pickers. It has cost him £ 30,000 and he said it could have fed 15,000 people for a year???
(not sure his arithmetic is up to scratch?)
Ottomanboi
6 years ago
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly. If you’ve met one you would understand immediately why. Reactionary Unionist, little Englanders to the their finger tips. Political clones of Davidson’s dreary gang.
Besides as the British state does not require its citizens to have ID cards the logistics of such an enterprise would be complex and open to massive fraud.
heedtracker
6 years ago
Ottomanboi says:
10 February, 2018 at 6:41 pm
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly.
They couldn’t last time so don’t worry, too much.
USA citizens can vote from outside America for their lifetimes. England’s already got 10+million voters that never vote. Look at them now.
uno mas
6 years ago
@ Ottomanboi
I am a Scottish expat and I am typing this post with my non ractionary non unionist non little Englander finger tips.
There are plenty of Scots who live outside the country and support independence.
Undeadshuan
6 years ago
I think the idea of using scottish tax code for being allowed to vote and prove residency is a good idea.
Not sure how it would affect spouses who are not working and taken time off to bring up kids.
Do they still get a tax code?
Highland Wifie
6 years ago
Good friend of mine has lived in England for many years and there’s no doubt she would vote against Indy. There again she is a Borderer but the last conversation I had with her about the issue got a bit heated. She insisted things were very nasty in her old home town at the time of the 2014 referendum and naturally the Yes voters were to blame!
I’m pretty sure she believes everything she reads in the gutter press down south because Nicola is the most awful woman apparently. Not a good idea to give these expats the vote imo.
Ottomanboi
6 years ago
@uno mas
Bravo! but possibly an exception proving the rule lol!. I’ve met some horrors.
Davie Oga
6 years ago
Ottomanboi says:
10 February, 2018 at 6:41 pm
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly.
Complete nonsense. Insulting as well. You would think that well educated, skilled Scottish citizens with international connections would be considered an asset to a newly independent country.
uno mas
6 years ago
@ Ottomanboi
And I´ve met some real independence warriors.
You must keep poor company!
starlaw
6 years ago
Under no circumstances should ex-pats be allowed to vote.
Most of them look back at home through rose tinted spectacles, and remember the happy times in the old country, they resent the thought of any change to their ‘Auld Country’ and would rather things were left the way they were.
.
yesindyref2
6 years ago
During Indy Ref 1 I met a few expats who “came home” from England, and full of the gutter press hated the SNP and hated the idea of Indy. Often their knowledge of modern Scotland was very sketchy. The whole town of Corby filled with ex-pats remember pled with Scotland “don’t go”, and they were the nicer ones. The attitude I saw from ex-pat Scots in England myself on visits was very anti-indy. If the 800,000 got a vote, I reckon it would be about 700,000 NO and a maximum of 100,000 YES.
uno mas
6 years ago
I personaly would not wish to be allowed to vote in an election in a country where I did not live or pay taxes.
People who migrate vote with their feet.
End of!
yesindyref2
6 years ago
Came home for the weekend or a week’s visit I should have said.
Ian Brotherhood
6 years ago
The ‘ex-pat’ question is one which causes full-on arguments and bitterness. Alex Salmond, in interview post-indyref 1 (forget where) said that deciding who would be granted a vote was one of the most difficult things the SNP had to wrestle with, and he said it in such a way that it was difficult not to surmise that he felt they’d got it wrong.
I don’t have any strong feelings on it one way or t’other – I just want *my* vote to be counted properly and the poll to be fair. That’s all. Decisions on who should be eligible should be made by the SG. Likewise with other contentious issues e.g. currency – just keep things as simple as possible, make yer minds up, then stick to what you’ve said. Indy supporters then get behind you and we make the final push to rid ourselves of these WM maniacs.
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Tatu3 says: 10 February, 2018 at 3:38 pm:
“No matter where in the world I have been, there are always plenty of Scots living and working there. Do you consider them no longer Scottish then? “
That’s the usual pish blethered by certain, “expats”.
Let us be quite clear exactly what is the definition of an, “Expat”.
The term is short for:- expatriate
noun: expatriate; plural noun: expatriates.
an expatriate is a person who lives outside their native country.
If their native country is Scotland and they mainly reside outwith Scotland they are still Scots but they are not one of the people of Scotland and they will live, work and pay tax in their adopted country.
In 1962 my entire immediate family, excepting my myself, my wife and our three children sold up, packed their bags and settled in Australia. Both my mother and father are buried in Australian and my sibling sister, her husband and her children and their children are still in Australia and none have ever set foot back in Scotland. They will forever be ethnic Scots but have been part of the people of Australia since 1962 and some of the younger ones are born and bred Australians.
The policy of the SNP has long been that they represent, “All the People of Scotland”, and it is often repeated, “It matters not where you came from but does matter where we are all going forward together.”
It has long been the history of Scotland that we welcome immigrants with open arms and there is no history of ghettos in Scotland. So much so that immigrant families are absorbed as Scots within a single generation.
The truth is, that if you wish to be one of the people of Scotland you must come and live in Scotland, register to vote in Scottish elections and pay your taxes in Scotland.
stewartb
6 years ago
O/T
The National today had an article that reported the negative impact on the UK’s trade deficit recently due to a temporary closure for repair of the North Sea Forties Oil Pipeline. (link to thenational.scot )
Linked to the short term closure of the pipeline, The National’s piece states: “… the ONS (Office for National Statistics) said a drop in the UK’s oil exports – as well as large increases in the price of fuel imports – had the largest impact on the trade in goods deficit, which widened by £3.3bn, …” Note that figure, an increase in the deficit by £3.3bn, from what was a short term operational interruption.
This is worth thinking about very carefully. Once Scotland becomes independent, c.90% of the present oil production from the UK Continental Shelf overnight becomes production from Scottish waters i.e. IT BECOMES SCOTLAND’S EXPORTS, no longer an export from the Kingdom of England.
From England’s perspective, it will be like the Forties Pipeline being closed permanently – except much worse!
In my darker moments, I fear that the implications for England’s presently fragile economy of Scotland becoming independent are so bad (much worse than but added to BREXIT) that the very substantial and ruthless powers of the British establishment will simply not permit it to happen!!
San
6 years ago
Stewart’s @ 7.26pm. They are going to fight very hard to hold on to Scotland
Meindevon
6 years ago
I am definitely in the minority amongst the ex pat Scots that I know down here. As in I, of course, can’t wait for Scotland to be a normal self governing country.
I blame the press and negative media. (However one is Highland land owning Tory farmer stock!)
Much as I would love to be able vote for Indy, if expats skewed the vote and the result (whatever it was) turned out to be a disaster for Scotland then we wouldn’t have to live with the consequences. And that doesn’t seem right to me.
frogesque
6 years ago
If ex-pats wish to support Indy they can always vote with their wallets and purses.
Plenty of Indy supporting groups desperate for funds and there is the option of an IScot subscription as well.
We want a better Scotland and any ex-pats who want to return, before or after Indy will be most welcome. We need the skills and the drive.
stewartb
6 years ago
Robert Peffers @ 7:26 pm
I’d like to say I agree completely with your analysis.
What you argue for is completely compatible with the CIVIC NATIONALISM that I understood that the vast majority of the Yes movement agreed with. If I’m wrong on the latter then we need to beware – there are some very unpleasant ‘slippery slopes’ out there!
Still Positive
6 years ago
In May 2014, 3 of my sons their wives, children and I went to Spain for a week’s holiday. 2 days after we arrived my eldest son, who lives in Surrey, said to me, completely out of the blue, ” You won’t get in the EU.” To which I replied, “Fishing, renewables and oil.” He never mentioned the indyref again.
I wouldn’t give him the vote, although to be fair he is having second thoughts since the UK voted for Brexit.
twathater
6 years ago
Dr Jim @ 3.09pm
No taxation without representation and it surely must work the other way round, no representation without taxation
100% correct Doc and I think that should be included on EVERYONE’S response on the SG’s website
C’mon people lets show Nicola that we will not allow wastemonster to fcuk with our ref , and let’s make it clear we DEMAND independent non electoral commission observers ,no holiday home owner votes , no non resident student votes . postal votes severely restricted and proof required to qualify , minimum residential qualification of 6 years
As others have posted if you don’t pay TAX here you have no right to determine OUR and our KIDS FUTURE
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@stewartb says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:56 pm:
“I understood that the vast majority of the Yes movement agreed with. If I’m wrong on the latter then we need to beware – there are some very unpleasant ‘slippery slopes’ out there!”
You are correct on both counts, stewartb, there are indeed several very slippery slopes out there but I’ve supported the SNP for many decades and, to date, your second count has always come out on top and Civic Nationalism has always come out on top.
It is, though often sad that when the Civic Nationalism wins through there has always been the sad loss of many good patriotic Scots that fall through the cracks and go down along with the more extreme forms of nationalism.
Perhaps the worst such episode was the expulsion from the party of Siol nan Gaidheal, (Seed of the Gael), and such right-wing organisations as, “The Free Scotland Party and “The Scottish Enterprise Party”.
Here’s one such reference to such things.
link to heraldscotland.com
The trouble with such organisations is that the SNP were being tarred with the same, very broad, brush but the SNP has always espoused true civic nationalism.
Macart
6 years ago
@Robert Peffers
Pretty much Robert. The franchise criteria currently stands as residence. The people who live, work and pay taxes within Scotland’s borders.
I don’t see that changing as regards Scottish elections or a referendum (at the moment). Of course the UK’s diaspora have an opinion on the politics of their point of origin. It’s only natural and all too human, but they chose to live, work and pay taxes in some other part of the globe. That is the nation to which they owe their own current focus.
To those who wish the indy movement well from overseas, their support is greatly appreciated and any aid in making our case heard across the globe likewise.
Please understand that the vote of any referendum rightly belongs to those who wish to make life in Scotland their future.
Rock
6 years ago
Rock (28th June 2017 – “Slight reprise”):
“The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”
Meg merrilees
6 years ago
Ian Brotherhood;
re Alex Salmond 2014 vote
I distinctly remember him doing a Q and A after a TV discussion and a young, smartly dressed lad asked, I was born and raised in Scotland but I’m working here in London now, is it fair that I won’t get the opportunity to vote re indy?
Alex’s reply was classic, he was polite, firm and informative -the referendum about Scotland’s future should be decided by the people who live and work in Scotland, this is standard practice in national referenda and since it is happening two years from now, that’s surely enough time for you to get a job and move back to Scotland in time to vote if that is so important to you.
I took that advice, moving back in July 2014 ( without a job to go to) but ensuring that I had the right to vote.
I sometimes wonder if the young man did, or was he a plant?
Knowing what we do about the rigging of QT audiences, I suspect he was the latter…
Tinto Chiel
6 years ago
“The truth is, that if you wish to be one of the people of Scotland you must come and live in Scotland, register to vote in Scottish elections and pay your taxes in Scotland.”
Agree with Mr P.
And, as others have said, no taxation without representation, and the other way around.
No-one’s saying some “ex-pats” are not potential Yessers but many are reactionary types who remember the Scotland of the 60/70/80s, like my brother, who was of the Dambuster generation, lived in Kent and would never, ever, have voted for an independent Scotland.
Great supporter of our diddy football and rugby teams, though…..
Those living in and paying tax in Scotland of whatever origin are the only ones who should have the right to vote in Indyref2, and I hope the SG are going to tighten the loopholes the desperate Britnats will be hoping to insert.
twathater
6 years ago
Uno Mas , Tatu3 AND all SCOTS FROM ANYWHERE , Genuinely THANK YOU for your support for our country Scotland ,
Please do not take the discussion and comments on expats as derisory or bigoted towards yourselves , it is just that we in Scotland are suffering the austerity , brutality , denigration , disrespect , lies and misinformation on a daily basis personally , and I like many are totally suspicious that the WM govt conceding voting rights to expats is totally out of character for them , as you are all probably aware these duplicitous dangerous cretins never give anything away for free unless it is a life threatening illness .
So with these thoughts ask yourselves in our situation what would your reaction be .
Again thanks for your support and we hope you will come home and help us build a Scotland fit for EVERYONE
ScottieDog
6 years ago
@stewartb
The simple fact is that Scotland would – over time, run a trade surplus which tends to result in a government surplus (see national sectoral accounting) Not something that is special in itself unless you are a neoliberal Tory or blairite.
Englands trade deficit would certainly increase adding to the fiscal deficit. This is why they can never let us go.
Many Brit nats play the ‘deficit’ card against Scotland. Well for one, you can only run a deficit by issuing more money and then issuing bonds (we don’t have the sovereign power to do this)
Also they fail to understand the difference between personal deficits (in their own lives) and govt deficits. A govt will run a defcit to make up shortfall in tax revenue. At the aggregate (whole economy) spending IS income. Your and my spending depends on someone spending money.
Reducing the amount of money in the economy by imposing austerity etc, ultimately reduces the amount of jobs in the economy and hence tax yield, adding to the size of the deficit.
Kangaroo
6 years ago
Hi from Oz.
My guess is the redacted word is ‘normally’
Been a lurker for a long time and have learned a lot on this site. Today I decided to make a wee comment just to get ma feet wet, but I’m quite shocked at the negativity being shown towards fellow Scots on here. I agree that proof of residency should be required to vote at the very least but this arguing about who’s a Scot and who’s no’ beggars belief. Think I’ll go back to lurking.
Kangaroo
6 years ago
@silverbuick 9:01pm
Agreed.
We think like Scots, talk like Scots and act like Scots. We ARE Scots.
We just should not have the vote unless we are resident.
Mary Miles
6 years ago
Hi from Tassie:
It’s breakfast time here and have just switched on Ipad so haven’t read many comments on site but it suddenly occurred to me regarding voting in a second Independence Referendeum – will Stuart be allowed a vote. I hope so!!
Meindevon
6 years ago
@frogesque.
I agree about giving our support even if we can’t vote. I support Wings, obviously, and love my iScot subscription and am a member of the SNP, even though I can’t vote for them. I support many of the causes highlighted on these pages. It’s not much but I hope it helps.
There is a family home that I hope to be able to afford to keep on when it will, sadly, become empty. I hope one day to return with my Scottish passport and the kids too, who desperately wanted to stay members of the EU.
I would like to see Barnier, or whoever make some definitive statement regarding Scotland’s ability to stay in the EU. It could be a game changer.
Ian Brotherhood
6 years ago
@silverbuick –
Welcome! Please don’t disappear back into the shadows, we need the fresh voices!
@Meg –
Aye, it’s easy to forget that these decisions had been made, what, a full two years before the referendum? Even if Alex/Nicola and abody else in the SNP realised (in 2012/13) that they’d made bad calls on some of these issues, they couldn’t be seen to change the broad thrust of ‘Scotland’s Future’, it would’ve blown the entire campaign to bits. We’ll maybe have to wait until AS and NS et al publish their diaries before we’ll know the full details, but I suspect quite a few of us won’t be around by then!
😉
twathater
6 years ago
Silverbuck 9.01pm There is no arguing about who is a Scot and who isnae , if you want tae be a Scot you ur , the discussion not argument is about voting rights , if you have an opinion you are welcome to share it , people may not agree with your opinion but that is their prerogative . Don’t just lurk give opinion
call me dave
6 years ago
I missed this earlier too much footie and golf 🙂
but for those that haven’t seen it.
Hark the Herald.
Nicola Sturgeon to declare victory in battle for EU powers
We’ve to believe that WM ministers have agreed that powers returning from Brussels should go to the devolved Scottish Government. Fears that Peers would reject the Bill as unconstitutional have caused the reversal of the planned return to WM.
Here are the weasel words from the Herald Article ( my italics) and I think this is the WM get out clause which will allow them to send all the returning powers to Fluffy at his new super -duper HQ in Edinburgh:-
*One source close to the process explained: “Officials working on Clause 11 are now moving to a phase where they put the powers more directly into the hands of the devolved administrations; reversing where Clause 11 actually started from but enabling the UK Government to put in appropriate safeguards to protect the internal market as and when they are required. This is of fundamental importance.”
The vast majority of the 111 powers and responsibilities coming from Brussels after Brexit Day will go immediately to Holyrood but others will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market.*
call me dave
6 years ago
@Meg merrilees
Jings! You must be a seer! 🙂
I don’t believe it.
K1
6 years ago
I think his will Mary, don’t know if many have noticed but on Stu’s twitter page it no longer says ‘Bath’ as his location, it says ‘Greater Scotland’. Unless he’s just put that there to establish his ‘Scottish’ bonefides, I think it may mean that he is already back in Scotland.
I could of course be completely wrong about this, but it has definitely altered from his previous location of Bath.
Macart
6 years ago
@silverbuick
Lurk no more and welcome. 🙂
Being a Scot is a state of mind and a way of living. You don’t need a state or borders to care. Voting as a Scot is a point of law and precedence.
There’s a world of Scots out there. 🙂
K1
6 years ago
They knew in the Lords, in fact it was a central part of many of those participating in the debate, that they had to find some weasly worded way of the devolved powers returning directly to the parliament, if they didn’t then the UK faced huge constitutional crisis? It was inevitable that they would fudge this in some way to somehow get ‘legislative consent’ from the parliament.
Now, where does this leave us, we’re still coming out of the CU and SM? What fucking difference whether we have 111 powers or none, when our economy will be devastated by this?
Stuart McTavish
6 years ago
What about MPs, should they be allowed an indyrer2 vote?
– after all they only live and work in London because there are no proper jobs for them in Scotland, ie much the same reason that expatriated all the other expats.
katherine hamilton
6 years ago
The Herald article is “Oh look there’s a squirrel!” Bullshit.
The big story is Japanese car companies’s plan to relocate post hard Brexit.
Holy shit don’t mention that.
All will be for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Oops.
Dave McEwan Hill
6 years ago
O/T
Put some stuff on Off Topic following the YES meeting in Glasgow today
Marie Clark
6 years ago
Meg merrilees @ 9.28pm If that Herald story is “true”, whit the hell is Mundell up too. He seems to be busy empire building in Edinburgh.
I’ll no haud ma breath on this one.
To all of you folk who are upset by the expat vote thingy, read twathater at 8.56 & 9.24 and Macart @ 9.41pm, says it all really.
To all the lurkers, lurk no more, and welcome. Give us your views and opinions, nice to have some newer voices.
yesindyref2
6 years ago
OT – defence
Handy infographic about timeline for QE and PoW
A private political conversation overheard by a French Ambassador and reported to a newspaper by a Liberal Democrat, I’ve redacted the names
We’d like to grow the economy please so we need immigrants
Naw! get yer ain fruit pickers
We were thinking about scientists and neurosurgeons and stuff
Naw! train yer weans get them aff thur xboxes
That’ll take too long and our economy will go backwards
Is that a fact! good!
It sounds like you want Scotland to fail
Nailed it sweaties! you’re so slow ya bunch of ginger nuts
This is the same thing you’ve said to every other country who left the UK and they still left no matter what you did
Aye but we wrecked them before we left and that’s all that counts! Engerland! Wee arra championees
“The penny is beginning to drop for folks I think, but there’s nothing joyous about the ‘I told you so’s. The guy who fixes my car was a No voter. When the car went in for its MOT in January this year, he told me about the disaster that is Brexit. ‘People don’t realise just how big this is, all the car parts, all of them, come from Europe, and that’s just cars.’
Which was my prompt for a wee conversation.
So, Yes we can, and now we bloody well must.”
Welcome back silverbuick ~
Cool car.
Yes 🙂
manandboy
6 years ago
Being a Scot arises from being born in Scotland, or having parents or grandparents born in Scotland and choosing to become a citizen of Scotland, or, coming to live here and with the necessary residence qualifications, seeking Scottish citizenship,
The idea that I can be born in say, China, live in China, but believe that simply believing myself a Scot makes me legally a Scot, is without basis in law, as well as being rather ridiculous and just a shade delusional.
I might drive at 90 miles an hour but consider myself as driving at 70 miles an hour. A speed gun and the law of the land will decide the reality of my situation.
Daisy Walker
6 years ago
Cactus
Damned right YES. And this time we OWN project fear (brexit) and all the positivity of Indy
We’re the safe, sensible, choice of least resistance, ones, folks.
Nice sensible facts, 2 x negative (Brexit), 1 x positive e.g. Talking up Scotland, etc…
Different pace and ‘mood music’ to the last one I grant you, but realistically much more in keeping with the Scottish personality – we totally get shit storms and dour.
They’ve geared it down to our level and they’re playing our tune. Superb.
Yes we can and now we must.
heedtracker
6 years ago
I might drive at 90 miles an hour but consider myself as driving at 70 miles an hour. A speed gun and the law of the land will decide the reality of my situation.”
Ex[ats or immigrants, whatever happened to John Barrowman or rather, what did he spend his share of the JK Trolling Better Together millions, all the way from Palm Springs, California, USA. Its him what Teresa wants to give the vote to, which is very generous of her.
“… I’m quite shocked at the negativity being shown towards fellow Scots on here.”
First of all welcome to the blog and good to get new blood. But Whoa! On the negativity being shown to fellow Scots.
What negativity would that be? No one has said that they. are not Scots. That is exactly what the term, “expatriate Scot”, means as does its short version, “expat”. It simple means a Scot not living and/or working in Scotland. It does not mean they cease to be ethnic Scots.
The SNP laid down the description many, many years ago and for very good reason. It was far from being a hurried decision, “The People of Scotland”. They defined it as:-
“Anyone, of any colour, creed or country of origin who is mainly resident in Scotland, is registered to vote in Scottish elections and who pays tax as a resident of Scotland.”
In other word their origins and ethnicity is unimportant but what is important is that they are one of the people of Scotland and, believe it or not, that includes ethnic Irish, Welsh and English residents in Scotland who live, work and pay their taxes as a Scottish resident.
First of all the SNP’s name is NOT, “The Scottish Nationalist Party”, (i.e. a party of nationalists).
It is, “The Scottish National Party”, (i.e. the party of the Scottish Nation). Although you wouldn’t think so if you believe the Westminster Establishment and its political parties and their state owned and controlled media. These never miss a chance to refer to them wrongly as, “The Scottish Nationalists”.
In point of fact the Westminster lot and their supporters are demonstrably far more, “Blood & Soil Nationalistic”, than the SNP has ever been.
Which is why the SNP have always claimed that they represent, “All the People of Scotland”, and do not claim to represent only Scots by birth.
So it is a fairly simple matter to define just who it is they represent for they cannot, under any circumstance, represent a person, born of two born in Scotland parents, who lives, works and pays taxes to a foreign country. i.e. expatriate Scots.
It really is just as simple as that. Such a person is an Expatriate Scot and their government is the foreign power they live under and support with their taxes.
No one say they are not ethnic Scots but it would be ludicrous to allow such as my own sister, who has paid her taxes and been permanently resident in Queensland, Australia for over 56 years. Factually she was born in the same house, in the same room, in the same bed of the same mother and father as myself.
No one claims such as she are not Scots but I’d be the very first to complain that she has no right to vote in either a United Kingdom or Scottish election. Of course if she were to come home to Scotland to stay she would no longer be an expatriate Scot.
If it’s good enough for the c_a_h / t_s_ / d_m_y (singular)
Why would they want to crash it into a wall?
Spare parts are not available.
Pity, such a pity.
chasanderson200
6 years ago
Silverbuick, welcome to wings, we have a Wingers social get together on 7th April in Woodside in Glenrothes, venue is The Otters Head. Feel free to come along and meet us, new wingers are always welcome.
Full details are posted over on the Off Topic page and will be update regularly.
Cactus
6 years ago
Mornin’ Robert Peffers ~
Do ya reckon John Bull could do with a Cargobob to try n get over: link to youtube.com
Not too long to go now.
Cargobob to no avail.
Love Scotland.
Everybuddy.
Cactus
6 years ago
Whom else watched this on their guest tv yesterday KITT: link to youtube.com
Da-da-ra-da.
Aye did.
Look out for that glass wall at The End of this clip.
“The idea that I can be born in say, China, live in China, but believe that simply believing myself a Scot makes me legally a Scot, is without basis in law.”
Balderdash!
You are confusing three quite different things – ethnicity, culture – and law.
For example Cliff Richards was born in India, of English parents. Is he Indian or English? What, though, if he had been born in India of English parents but brought up by an Indian Nanny as culturally Indian?
I worked with a bloke called Hamish MacAlpine whose Scots born mother and father died in a shipping disaster. He was adopted and brought up from a baby by a an English couple in Portsmouth.
He was thus ethnically Scottish but had never lived in Scotland and was most certainly culturally English. What’s more he didn’t want it any other way and actually disliked Scotland and Scots.
Most countries in the EU disagree with you, Robert. But I don’t expect that’ll make any difference to your opinion.
Meg merrilees
6 years ago
Marie Clark
If that Herald story is ‘true’ then what is Mundell up to – exactly!!!
Enlarging the Scottish office- increasing the number of staff and budget and preparing a large building in Edinburgh for what?
To rule Scotland instead of the elected Scottish Government… that’s what I mean about the weasel words –
“…enabling the UK Government to put in appropriate safeguards ( the enlarged Scotland Office) to protect the internal market as and when they are required. This is of fundamental importance.”
In other words:
We’ll let nasty Nicola think that she’s won, she’ll not hold her pesky Indyref2, the Sewel Convention will see to it that despite all 111 powers returning to Holyrood, all decisions taken in the devolved regions will have to be agreed by the relevant Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland office in situ – “appropriate safeguards as and when they are required”
“The vast majority of the 111 powers and responsibilities coming from Brussels after Brexit Day will go immediately to Holyrood but others will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market.”
So the really important ones like fishing, farming, energy etc will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market from Scotland because WM’s sunk without control over those matters.
I don’t trust them one iota and I’m sure the alarm bells are ringing at Bute House as well.
It’s a ruse.
I’m Scottish my Mum was English her father and mother were English but her grandmother was Irish
My Father was Scottish as was his father and mother for about a thousand years as far as I know and they could have been black from wherever they came from, who knows, what matters is who you are now and where you want to be
Culture is good and Scotland has thousands of years of it long before anyone else set foot on these Islands and it should be rightly celebrated as other normal countries do
Most of Scotlands problems stem from the Empires Englification of all things, it’s how they went about their business of robbing half the world so folk shouldn’t take it so personally against themselves that many Scottish people resent that culture being stamped out
Think of it like the American Indian or the Australian Aborigine, Scots have a right to get touchy from time to time about their own place in the world
England has it’s place in the world too, that’s why they call themselves British now, ye see, comedy, you’ve gotta have a wee laugh
Cactus
6 years ago
ps did ye see the kilted GnR dolphin above Scotland?
Lookin’ good Dr Jim ~
Fuckin’ excellent in fact 🙂
It’s weekend Sunday.
Good knight.
Maybe.
Baby.
Impact assessment.
Graf Midgehunter
6 years ago
Thanks to TWATHATER I’ve cooled down a bit now but it’s obvious to me that some Scots like OTTOMANBOI have big gobs and faulty wiring to the brain regarding Scots who don’t live inside of Scotlands borders.
My family moved south to England to find work which meant that I spent most of my youth/education in Yorkshire. Later I met a German woman and ended up in Germany where we married.
I’m a Scot who lives abroad but that doesn’t make me any less Scottish or hate my country. But, no, it’s not right for me to have a vote but it is definitly right that all people who live and work in Scotland should be able to vote. Incl. all those foreigners who made Scotland THEIR home.
I’m also btw. the proud owner of a German driving licence (the old version called a “Lappen” (nickname meaning “dish/floor cloth”) where it doesn’t say UK or British in it but Scottish and Scotland. I tricked them…!! 😉
I also happen to be a pensioner, you know Ottomanboi, those folk who all have white hair, are swivel-eyed tory voting loonies etc.
It’s the middle of the night so probably no ones reading this but it still had to be said though.
Cactus
6 years ago
There be a song for every occasion.
Kangaroo
6 years ago
Graf Midgehunter @ 2:17am
Its the middle of the day here so I am reading your post.
Well said.
twathater
6 years ago
Meg Merrilees 1.16am I agree with all you posted apart from the bit ( it’s a ruse ) it’s not its a fecking insult just how stupid do these a*sewipes think we and the SNP SG are
Cactus
6 years ago
Aussi, cheers for yer shared 9:28pm Meg merrilees and call me dave
Hey Cactus how about this one….’Baby you can drive my car”
ian
6 years ago
I am one of those expats that we are talking about and agree it would be an extremely bad idea to give us the vote.I have two brothers one who has lived in England most of his adult life and he is against independence.Both brothers are low information voters and Brexit fans and avoid discussion on anything to do with politics.One day i would hope to return but only to live in a free and independent Scotland and will continue to contribute where i and when i can until that day happens.
mogabee
6 years ago
Stuart McTavish
MP’s don’t actually live in London, they aren’t ‘expats’ in any sense whatsoever!
Graeme
6 years ago
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@manandboy says: 11 February, 2018 at 1:13 am:
“Most countries in the EU disagree with you, Robert. But I don’t expect that’ll make any difference to your opinion.”
And your 28 sources for making that claim, manandboy, are what exactly?
Liz Rannoch
6 years ago
@ yesindyref2 10.06
Your O/T on defence. I scrolled down on this page and came across this:
It is dated 1st April and I only got to about the 4th or 5th line before I had to give up, but some people actually think like this?! Just a bit o’ banter?
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@Graeme says: 11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am:
“It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.”
Aye! Graeme, and it is also worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to what it originally was under the Romans, and then the several versions of the Germanic Tribes that still are legally the monarchy of England and the hereditary peers, we would all be slaves, serfs or villeins to the landed gentry. BTW: only the male members of that elite group of franchised Lords would have the vote as females and children were legally owned by those males.
Some of whom are the monarchy and others are descendants of the aristocracy who still sit in the House of Lords as hereditary peers and Lords of the Law and the Church of England. We are forced to pay them each £300 per day, plus expenses, while subsidising their high quality food, drink and leisure activities.
Many of those slaves, serfs or villeins who are forced to pay for these lords are homeless and starving on the streets of the disUnited Kingdom.
Government internal communications indicate Theresa May is due to capitulate to the hard-right and take Britain out of the EU with no deal, securing the worst case outcome shown in the government’s own impact assessments. link to byline.com
As Britain Stumbles Over Brexit, Support Grows for 2nd Vote link to archive.is
Falkland Islands is to have full access to EU trade.
Dave McEwan Hill
6 years ago
Graf Midgehunter at 2.17
The real reason we didn’t win in 2014 was that not enough Scots voted YES.
Can we stop the blame game.
Davie Oga
6 years ago
And your 28 sources for making that claim
In the EU only Ireland, Cyprus, Denmark, and Malta disenfranchise their citizens who are resident outside their national country, and Ireland has a referendum on March to enable voting for the presidency. Citizenship is derived through a mixture of jus sanguis, and naturalization. Independence should be about normalization. Normal countries define citizenship through parentage, and long term residency coupled with economic contribution to the society, not “state of mind”.
frogesque
6 years ago
@Dave McEwan Hill 8.46
That comment should be plastered on every wall, banner and car!
Our case in 2014 was not strong enough to convince enough waverers. We have to do better and it won’t be achieved by alienating folk who might otherwise be persuaded.
We need to stop the nightingale and concentrate on the good folk who are prepared to listen an back their own and their kids’ futures.
Davie Oga
6 years ago
The real reason we didn’t win in 2014 was that not enough Scots voted YES.
I agree with that statement. I also feel that there is an element within the independence movement that is overly sensitive to accusations of racism and anti-Englishness to the point where what is taken without granted in any other country is treated as a sign of blood and soil lunacy.
ScotsRenewables
6 years ago
Graeme says: 11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.
Al Dossary
6 years ago
Ex-pat voters:
Somewhere I have a screen shot from the Saudi gazette online poll in 2014 showing 76% in favour of independance, so who knows. Maybe the majority of ex-pats would rather see an independant Scotland.
louis.b.argyll
6 years ago
Good morning Kangaroo,
or is that good evening?
4 inches of snow here, btw.
What’s your weather?
Stuart McTavish
6 years ago
mogabi @ 0700
Well they certainly don’t commute .. and I doubt they pay income tax in Scotland either
Sinky
6 years ago
Impact Assessment on Scotland nothing to see here by Scottish press and broadcasters move on.
BBC Politics Show still banging on about Police Scotland at 11.45 while Radio Scotland press review mentioned Kezia Dugdale’s critique of Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit stance in Sunday Herald
they failed to discuss Labour’s Brexit shambles and went on about equal march in Glasgow and implications for Glasgow without mentioning it was caused by previous Labour administration.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Nana says:
Government internal communications indicate Theresa May is due to capitulate to the hard-right and take Britain out of the EU with no deal ….. link to byline.com
An interesting one. We’ve been hearing same rumour online for a few days. But what I find most interesting is the msm are not reporting anything like this.
Either, it’s just not true, or the msm are purposely collectively avoiding it.
If it turns out to be true (and I think it is) then we have witnessed msm behaviour which should be worrying everyone!
Robert Graham
6 years ago
Seems voter eligibility has taken over , well instead of moaning or bickering about it endlessly make your opinion known.
The link was posted yesterday by twathater , the link is to the Scottish government survey on electoral reform consultation .
A word of warning this is not a two minute questionnaire and some of the questions are well pretty vague , if I remember rightly there are 7 sections with a indicator of questions answered on the left of each section, e.g. Out of 6 questions 4-5-or all 6 answered you will soon realise however you try to complete every answer this doesn’t add up , a bit more work is needed I believe ,
Despite the bugs it is a way of registering your opinion not perfect but it might just influence those who could make changes .
Getting independence could be the easy bit. Changing the consciousness and mind-set of our citizens to handle the new order may not be so easy. 300 + years of a self-harming very bad habit may need strong psychological initiatives. The lure of old habits and addictions to the way it used to be will be exploited by the shady dealers in ‘Brits’, the dependency drug that takes the existential discomforts of self-reliance away, for a fat fee.
When we break with the old order, the break must be clean not complex.
Imperialist history indicates we must be on our guard when treating this particular subject.
Lenny Hartley
6 years ago
O/T dont know if this has been posted before, the real reason the Tories want a hard brexit. Never minds hundreds of thousand of job losses in the UK , lets keep our chums sweet. link to thejist.co.uk
Chick McGregor
6 years ago
Galam
Having for years predicted her annointed status as queen of the cabal of evil as based on the many political errors she inexplicably survived, long before becoming Tory leader, I have always considered May’s ‘remain’ stance to be entirely fake and merely a propaganda ruse.
Stravaiger
6 years ago
Chick, totally agree.
Three near certainties-
1. Theresa May was never a remainer.
2. Brexit will be of the hardest kind.
3. Jacob Rees-Mogg will be the next PM.
Undeadshuan
6 years ago
If this comes to pass the uk economy will lose majority of its tax income.
Leaving the uk is essential for the economic status quo in Scotland.
The brexit mess will wreck the uk economy, destroying its tax base. we have a life raft and need to deploy it before March 29th 2019.
Bill not Ben
6 years ago
I remember many years ago the great oil billionaire hunt sitting in the kremlin talking to Mr Breznev the soviet leader at that time.
Which goes to prove that whatever governments do or say, business allways carries on as usual.
Mr Hunt did not care about the politics of everything, he like the american president now was more interested in taking care of business.
After brexit, whatever anyone says, business will just carry on as usual, cause every business person knows, the markets do not belong to anybody, the markets are there to be traded whether its forex or selling cars, its just business
Wonder why Colin Alexander or Colin Alexander or COLIN ALEXANDER hasn’t been on to comment?? Must be on leave.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Chick McGregor says:
many political errors she inexplicably survived
Her behaviour during the 2017 GE was nothing short of astonishing. She appeared not to be even trying. Yet, there she still is.
uno mas
6 years ago
@ Scott Finlayson 10.42am
That AC/DC video is a keeper.
I´m fed up explaining to people the they were Scottish.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Stravaiger says:
Three near certainties
… which will give rise to a fourth near certainty 😉
‘Brexit of the hardest kind’ and ‘Jacob Rees-Mogg as PM’ would a dream ticket for IndyRef2.
TheWasp
6 years ago
James Caithness @ 11.47
No Captain Colin Alexander on this forum, no Governor General Mundell in the MSM. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion ?
Graeme
6 years ago
ScotsRenewables says:
11 February, 2018 at 9:49 am
Graeme says:
11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
“Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.”
I’m not suggesting we give a vote to expats and I’m not trying to blame anyone But I find it a a bit strange that we give a vote to the very people we’re trying to break away from ie non Scot UK nationals.
I think it can fairly be argued that these people uniquely of all other nationalities have a vested interest in Scotland remaining in the union that is not based in the best interests of Scotland or it’s people.
I accept there is nothing we can do about it and we have to go along with it but that doesn’t make it right or fair.
If I moved to any other part of the world I would still consider myself a Scotsman first and foremost and if asked to vote for something I thought was a good thing for my adopted country but detrimental to Scotland I would choose the latter without question.
Would that be fair to my adopted country and it’s people
Chick McGregor
6 years ago
Shuan
Agree, England’s resource to population ratio is dire. It falls short on all sectors, food and drink, energy, timber, it is very far from a position of security.
The worst security position in the World for a large non-satellite economy.
And, instead of filling that resource security gap by generating a manufacturing based trade surplus, i.e. something which at least could survive a significant degree of World turmoil, it has put all its eggs in the financial services basket, many of which are rotten. Money laundering, tax evasion, interest manipulation, Ponzi scams. And all of which could and almost certainly will, disappear like snaw aff a dyke.
The consequences of post hard brexit does not bear thinking about.
A campaign must seek the open support of a majority of European Countrys, and while we are at it, the support worldwide of ex Colonies. Would they want to trade with a country who have used dirty tricks to prevent Independence for the Scottish People?
Another thought. Mhairi Black must have a strong part in the campaign as a strong speaker, with the ear of the young voters and urge them to seek the support of their Grand PaRents.
galamcennalath
6 years ago
Something to remember about Indy, Brexit, and voters….
The UK result in EuRef was 52% to leave the union in question.
It would have been more like 45% if it had been run on a wide IndyRef1 type franchise.
The result in IndyRef1 was 45% to leave the union in question.
It would have been more like 52% if it had been run on a narrow EURef type franchise.
The more I think about referendums, the more I am inclined to say that ALL decisions should be taken by elected representatives in a PR elected parliament based on manifesto commitments.
Get the electoral role right and police it robustly. Tighten up postal voting. Then let normal parliamentary process decide all issues. That is rapidly becoming my position!
uno mas
6 years ago
@ Scott Finlayson
O/T………….
Robert J. Sutherland
6 years ago
Robert Graham @ 10:25,
(It was me actually, and several times since the start of the year, but I’m nae proud.)
Just go and do it, folks, if you care.
My own view is that there is a fundamental principle that applies besides reverse “no taxation without representation” (In fact that weel-kent slogan is just one specific corollary of it.)
It’s the well-understood principle that you must be subject to the consequences of the votes that you cast. For fairly obvious reasons.
This essentially translates into residence (with some obvious exceptions) and taxation.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not Scottish if you happen to currently live in the diaspora. Of course not. So very many have left, which is a large part of our problem. But you can contribute to our cause in important other ways, like influencing people in your own country to what’s actually happpening here, and also by funding.
And of both there is a great need.
yesindyref2
6 years ago
@Dave McEwan Hill:
Graf Midgehunter wasn’t doing the blame game, he was effectively saying can we stop the blame game.
@Liz Rannoch
She didn’t do too badly though, at least they thought she was RN material! And she got to try to relocate the Britannia Royal Naval College to Glasogow, quite right too.
Yes, some (many) of the defence posters hate the SNP, but most of them hate all politicians who don’t set a defence budget of 10% of GDP, build about 200 warships, 20 submarines, have 200,000 soldiers, and about 1,000 fighter jets and bombers. In fact, basically everyone in the UK should be in the forces I guess.
starlaw
6 years ago
Having been in Australia a few times I can assure you the ex-pat Scots think we are doing fine and wonder why we want to break away, the longer they have been away from Scotland the more British they become. Forget about ex=pats vote, they have left Scotland and are in no hurry to come home and don’t believe change would be a good thing.
Robert J. Sutherland
6 years ago
Lenny Hartley @ 11:09,
I’m with you on this one, Lenny.
There’s a lot of poor suckers in the UK, including alas too many in Scotland, who have been fooled into believing that “take back control” is somehow going to happen for them.
Nope, nope, nope.
It’s going to happen for Jacob Rees-Mogg and his pals. Rich tax-avoiders and vulture capitalists who are positively lusting to buy up all the Brexit crashed assets cheap.
Yet we still get people like our now-resident Iago whispering that the EU is a “rich man’s club”.
call me dave
6 years ago
Powers returning to Scotland: Herald Story from yesterday:
PS:
Paul Sweeney (‘Scottish’ Labour)MP joins woman in protesting for equal pay in Glasgow!
What’s he like eh? 🙁
gus1940
6 years ago
Extending the right to vote in Indyref2 to ex-pat Scots would be a disaster for the Independence Campaign.
For those in England apart from the well known tendency when abroad to Go Native one must remember that if they don’t subscribe to The National, SH or read sites like WoS they are wholly dependent on the metropolitan broadcast and print media for any information regarding Scottish Politics and we all know what sort of ‘Information’ thais.
For those living elsewhere abroad the situation will be similar although probably a bit more favourable towards Indpendence but still likely to be predominantly anti.
Graf Midgehunter
6 years ago
Robert J. Sutherland says:
“It doesn’t mean that you’re not Scottish if you happen to currently live in the diaspora. Of course not. So very many have left, which is a large part of our problem. But you can contribute to our cause in important other ways, like influencing people in your own country to what’s actually happpening here, and also by funding.
And of both there is a great need.”
—- —– —– —–
That’s exactly how I contribute to both your suggestions.
Cash to various causes like WOS, WGD, books etc. Am an SNP member – group EUROPE – but I never know where the monthly meetings are, Copenhagen, Berlin, Lyon, Milan..! 😉
Writing mails to various publications or TV debates.
In 2014 it was folk asking me why Scotland wants to “break away” from England (sigh..). Now I just ask them, you’ve seen the chaotic Brexit malarky from London which is driving the EU and Barnier bonkers – can you now understand why we want to be away from the clutches of London and be independent again..??
100% conversion rate. 🙂
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
@ScotsRenewables says: 11 February, 2018 at 9:49 am:
“Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.”
Hey! Firstly. I’m not the one making wild guesses of how things would have gone if only …
In the second place I’m the one defending those the guessers would blame for the defeat of the YES referendum.
The truth being that there is only one lot to blame for the defeat of the YES to independence movement.
These are the liars, prevaricators and bullies who are the long term oppressors of everything and anything that is Scottish. a.k.a. the Westminster Establishment – also known the wide World over as PERFIDIOUS ALBION. .
By which terms I do not class the normally decent. and much like ourselves, people of the three country Kingdom of England. It is reserved exclusively for the Westminster Establishment and that extends a damned sight further than just the Palace of Westminster, the financial sector and Buck House.
heedtracker
6 years ago
TheWasp says:
11 February, 2018 at 11:58 am
James Caithness @ 11.47
No Captain Colin Alexander on this forum, no Governor General Mundell in the MSM. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion ?
Fluffie’s apparently the spaceman driving that Tesla car what they fired into to space last week.
This is Major Fluffie to ground controoooool, I’m feeling very toryboy, I’m wishing they’d sent Colonel Ruth asweeeeeeeell, because the Colonel’s an even bigger tory chancer than meeeeeee, at least we can still receive all the amazing BBC SNP out propaganda, in deep toryboy spaaaaaaaace…
Bowie lyrics write themselves:D
Robert Graham
6 years ago
Well spotted- call me Dave- The brass necked labour MP joining a protest for equal pay in Glasgow
He only has to look at the City Chambers and the previous administration who used to inhabit the place, for any answers on that little embarrassment , a labour controlled council who spent millions yes millions of pounds in legal services fighting the very people he now joins in protest ,
I was going to say you couldn’t make it up , but honestly ,Dont the people who are protesting not realise it was this arsewipe of an MPs party that is the root of their problem .
The money wasted could have given every one of them enough to retire on , I wonder if the wasted money could be recovered from these idiots who wasted it , maybe as the pension fund accrued by the city council and believed to be one of the largest in Britain not just Scotland but Britain , perhaps they should shoulder some of the cost , after all it’s the broad shoulders and shared responsibility that makes the Union great eh .
Robert Peffers
6 years ago
Every time a bell rings another Yesser gets their Wings over Scotland Badge.
Has not someone somewhere said something like that somewhere before?
Now I wonder who and where that was?
ScotsRenewables
6 years ago
Graeme says:
11 February, 2018 at 11:59 am I think it can fairly be argued that these people uniquely of all other nationalities have a vested interest in Scotland remaining in the union that is not based in the best interests of Scotland or it’s people.
I disagree. Those who have been born here have no choice, those who choose to make Scotland their home are making a positive statement. I don’t understand why they then automatically have a vested interest in maintaining the Union.
They have already made one leap of faith by moving, now we need them to make one more.
Graf Midgehunter
6 years ago
“Every time a bell rings another Yesser gets their Wings over Scotland Badge.
Radio shortbread had a wee discussion on Scotland and the space industry this morning. Good to hear what we all knew on Wings.
Prestwick, rocket launches and satellite manufacture all going along nicely. Chuckled to myself as I expected the presenter to nip the enthusiasm expressed in the bud.
Westminster will get around to poking a spanner in the works soon enough. 🙁
PS: We all know but for those that wonder.
Bells and Angels wings. Have had the coloured rendered dvd version for a long time now. Go back to it often.
The George Bailey child – Zuzu
Karolyn Grimes.
Alas she had a hard time after her role in ‘It’s a wonderful life’
starlaw
6 years ago
Noticed our brass necked Labour MP in George Square’s T shirt did not display any Labour Party logo’s
yesindyref2
6 years ago
@Liz Rannoch – OT – Defence
Looking around defence forums, particularly the one, because of the constant threat to cut the defence budget, warships etc., there are people who want to cut the International Aid budget and spend it on defence instead. And who pops out of the woodwork with the same desire? Rees-Mogg, the arch-Brexiteer.
But Aid is soft power, and with Brexit the UK is going to need that more than before, something Rees-Mogg as a likely future PM should know. So that could be an additional effect of Brexit for all of us, loss of that soft power and a resultant cut to GDP.
There is an answer to this though, and that’s to “charge” the international aid budget for aid-related use of defence assets. For example Invincible was used in the Philipines, and Ocean and RFA Mounts Bay in the Caribbean. And if this was built in, literally, to assets, there could be a shared use of budget from the beginning. The QE carriers for instance produce 100,000 litres of fresh water each by reverse osmosis from seawater.
The significance for us when Independent is to thing laterally from the very beginning, and as part of the target of 0.7% or 1% of GDP for International Aid, spend part with the defence budget in the design phase, so we get better defence, and can better take part in humanitarian missions, true value for money.
winifred mccartney
6 years ago
everyone of us who objects to Paul Sweeney turning up at the Rally yesterday should e-mail him and let him know how we feel about him and labour. Paul.sweeney.mp@parliament.uk Labour must think we all button up the back – they have no scruples or moral code left and in no way represent any one of us.
It is the impact of their past deeds that are going to haunt them and until every last penny of PFI interest is paid off and labour have apologised for their selling Scotland down the river they should be in hiding with shame.Even their great messiah JC has left his scruples behind at the first test Trident and no party whip as for Brexit he has no idea and would be happy to follow the tories over the cliff.
Hamish100
6 years ago
re voters right for our next vote for independence.
Criteria will have to be as before- There is a precedent after all but I do think that at a local level we need to get even more folk voting that still didn’t bother 4 years ago. Thankfully many younger folk who were on 12-13 at the time will vote for independence as they don’t have the fears and gripes of many of their great/grand parents.
The universities who actively encouraged their student population from England Wales and NI to vote NO should be prohibited as the majority had no intention to stay in Scotland.
Hahaha, brilliant as always Chris. 100mph into a brick wall with no airbags. Jump now Hamish.
Aye that’s about the size of it. I hope Hamish bales out quick before the massive car crash.
Well done Chris.
No seat belt on either. This isn’t going to end well.
Very skillful cartoon Chris.
Superb, superb, superb. Time for hamish to jump out, and make his way to safety.
Why, in a so-called democracy, is the UK Government operating and making policy in secret? Almost every thing now, we are told, is secret, or as in the case of the brexit impact assessment, redacted.
Is a covert, secretive, UK Government really what brexit means??
[…] Wings Over Scotland Impact assessment Read the full article:: Wings Over Scotland […]
O/T
At last we are getting signs that our wonderful media are coming to their senses and admitting that the apparent signs of detente between N & S Korea is a reaction to Trump’s megaphone warmongering.
To me it is obvious and has been for some time that S.Korea is telling Trump to lay off and stop interfering in something that is none of his business.
Excellent!
Is the rumour true that iEngland plans to relaunch an updated Morris 1000 with plastic body and 600cc two stroke two cylinder engine after Brexit?
LOL – Every action has an equal and opposite redaction!
‘Mon Hamish, time to go.
Nice touch there, Chris. Everything John Bull says to Hamish now is redacted!
Jump! Scotland.
It’s not a leap of faith that is required, it’s common sense. Return our Nation to its natural state of independence.
What’s normal for every other nation has been disproportionately demonised by a small cabal of power-seeking aristocrats, politicians, media owners and paranoid middle-class hangers-on.
And you can bet your house on the redacted word being “not”…
(…in fact, come to think of it, that’s exactly what we’re doing. Betting the house…)
It’s only a Minor detail. The good ship UK is rudderless,leaderless, and worst of all clueless.
How on earth can people entrust their and their children’s future to such a collection of imbeciles. It’s true what they say about people being easily led to disaster, spurred on by the application of bigotry,racism and xenophobia liberally applied by politicians and media.
I am actually coming to the incredible conclusion that the SNP he to get hold of the whole of the UK and shake it back to its senses. I know that would never happen, but there is something very disconcerting about watching Engerrlund destroy itself through hatred of others, laced with arrogance and superiority, albeit with no ability at all.
We need to gain control of the asylum before the lunatics.
Chris
Is the wall the one that the mundell is negotiating with trump’s mega company. The rumour is that an Italian Legion is going to rebuild the one at Carlisle, it will have customs booths, pill boxes, trrop accomodation and tank traps, just to keep out the Pictish Scots.
An Irish one is also on the cards, but top secret, maybe I’ll get a visit for the disclosure. I visited the downstairs vault guarded by a tory lizard and sneaked a look at the building warrent, it’s on velum of course.
Let’s run our small country based on;-
Our sense of right-and,wrong.
Our sense of economic-risk.
Our own natural resources.
Our respected academic community.
Our international relationships.
Our productivity.
OUR FUTURE.
I suggest, post independence- rewrite all PFI contracts, divert the payments. Spread mayhem throughout financial & legal systems, cause a FTSE/Pound crash!
That’s the effect, caused by EXPLOITATION of PUBLIC FUNDS by Westmimster and their greedy chums. Let’s start risking THEIR livelihoods. Stop fucking with the poor people.
@Morgatron says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:33 am:
“Hahaha, brilliant as always Chris. 100mph into a brick wall with no airbags. Jump now Hamish.”
That vehicle looks very like a Morris Minor convertible, Morgatron, thus Chris made certain there were no air bags fitted in such an old car.
Chris never misses a trick and the small detail is always just spot on as he hammers nails on the head.
Ae fond kiss,goodbye old England.
Brilliant as ever!!
This seems wholly appropriate ..
EU negotiator Michel Barnier warns Brexit transition period ‘not a given’
link to archive.is
I was talking to some Irish folk last week and their summation of Westminster in two words, ‘Feckin Eejits’. They’re also desperate to see how the DUP and their Westminster Lap-dogs resolve the unsolvable, how to create a ‘friction less Border a fact restated by Barnier only yesterday. They also pointed out that the four ‘Border Counties'(Bandit Country) voted to ‘Remain’ with only the old heartlands of the DUP voting leave, a point Mrs May would do well to take note of.
Unless it’s a PFI wall and will crumble on impact, England’s fecked.
Ace, as per, Cairns.
I’ve just listened to Davidson on the Radio Forth Phone In. She really is an empty headed little self promoter, isn’t she? She was in good company. I take it that this is standard fare for ‘Scoddish’ steam radio these days?
‘When they phoned me up, and asked me tooo dooo this’. Aye, right.
The sooner she fuck’s off to the Motherland, the better.
The sooner we hold Indyref 2, the sooner we get rid of this evil little bunch of chancers.
Fabulous. What’s the blacked out word, must be a secret.
I have heard a few people say ‘Brexit’s not gonna happen’ and ‘there will be another referendum’. Oh dear which planet?
No words really as to the shambles of the past week. North Korea might be an attractive place once the UK Torygov, on full turbo power remove pretty much every human right and freedom from the lowly ordinary folk of their rancid UK.
Scotland get your socks on, time is running out to escape. :-{
I wondered whether instead of calling her Colonel Davidson we start a theme of ‘Begging Bowl Betty’ instead. Because one of the major differences between those of us on the YES side and the Unionists is that we are clear that we want to stand on our own two feet economically whereas Unionists are willing, in effect, to sponge off English taxpayers (saying eg Scotland is an economic basketcase ). This theme might also go down well amongst those older voters who generally don’t want to feel they are subsidised.
There are only TWO scenarios left for Brexit.
1. A humiliating climbdown for the UK and Theresa, giving in to EU demands. We know Theresa will not back down in order to save face and protect her ego and vote Base.
2. Hard Brexit. Exit Europe with nothing but your pride. The current lack of Statesmanship means this is the more likely outcome. The population will be encouraged to show them they were wrong.
It is heading for the wall. No doubt about it. We must be ready to use that fact.
Please, Nobody tell me now the SNP are not playing this to perfection. Never interrupt your enemy while they make mistakes.
Aye Tereza’s Brexitears thought it would be ah Breeze to leave the EU & the world’s largest trading Block with no penalties .
Great toon Chris U could draw a wall fur Trump he’s having some difficulties building his .
Haha, brilliant. Run, Hamish!!!
Wonder if the Mars bar blacked out word refers to the secret papers? Reading that secret squirrel tosh was like reading some kind of Forsyth spy plot.
Ludicrous.
The acting Chief Constable of Polis Scotland has just issued an apology to the MacLeod family in Wick who maintain that their son was murdered there over 20 years ago & have had no justice whatsoever from the Northern Constabulary. An enquiry is promised & as there are other murder cases in the Northern Constabulary’s patch with unsatisfactory outcomes, Iain Livingstone might be a busy man!
This is the kind of parochial policing that Leslie Riddoch & Willie Rennie, through rose-tinted glasses, think is appropriate for Scotland in the 21st century!
Well done Chris, says it all, really! You are so clever with all the wee nuances.
@gus1940
I agree about N and S Korea. I wish the “whole” world would tell the USA and all her “best buddies”, to stop interfering in the affairs of other countries. Of course the USA don’t want peace in Korea. Peace would mean that they can’t be there and they want to keep threatening N Korea and China.
Bob Mack at 9.47
Exactly
“We’re at a whole new level of Brexit chaos and uncertainty ”
Kirsty Hughes
link to thenational.scot
Robert Louis @7.55am. “Why is the UK government operating and making policy in secret”
Their actions and policies are not going to be in the interests of the population
For the Tories “Taking back Control” is all about the Tories regaining control of their serfs.
We’re heading back to Rip off Britain of the 1970’s and beyond.
And they will do anything to make sure they are in control of the process.
Chris and Greg Moodie are doing a talk/show at The Summerhall`s Edinburgh (Meadows area)at 3 this afternoon,tickets are free and there was a rumour Greg was buying the drink (or a drink),
link to tinyurl.com
Those of us lucky enough to have our own cuddly Hamish will be giving him a cuddle, to protect him from that crazy John Bull 🙂
artyhetty @ 09:34,
It’s “not”. As in “It will NOT be fine”.
But you and I mustn’t know that. We only pay these wasters their undeserved wages, so we don’t matter.
So just go back to eating your cereal and let them get on with the driving…
Jump Hamish, the old Moggie took about 30 seconds to get to 60 and it was a push to go much faster than that.
An appropriate choice of vehicle to depict the UK negotiating team come to think of it.
He is driving towards hadrians wall from the scottish side, i do hope he notices that hadrian did not build walls with tunnels.
He is a bit of a doughnut so we better wait and see if he notices and puts the brakes on, but knowing him, he probably thinks he’s ok with a parachute in the boot lol
That’ll leave a mark. 🙂
o/t
Two government flunkies delivered a letter and it cost us a mere £1000.
link to independent.co.uk
Cracker Chris.. the question is who benefits from this, who is waiting on the other side of the wall to pick up the salvageable bits and leave all the shit for us mere mortals. Health care companys from Merica will be waiting with contracts prepared!!
A taste of things to come.
link to independent.co.uk
The only thing keeping the economy of the UK from collapsing into a hole is the fact that it is still currently an EU member. It still has access to the CU and single market. The final shape of the UK’s relationship with and access to the EU is as yet unknown. The link above was a hiccup caused by the very thought that the UK would crash out of the EU without any access.
Imagine if you will, the carnage that will ensue if a hard brexit becomes the reality. None of the three options currently available will leave the UK better off. NONE.
Only one other option not on that super secret document will see Scotland’s population avoid this criminal act of greed driven ideological self harm.
Probably also worth mentioning one other thing in relation to their secret squirrel approach to the Brexit settlement and their sudden public shyness.
The utter hypocrisy of it all.
After indyref 2014, Scotland’s population were bombarded with state backed media releases on every Scotland bill vote. The Smith commission talks were the daily fair of the media. Talk of and action on, EVEL by Cameron was seen as fully in the public interest. The humiliation (see under punishment) of Scotland’s SNP Westminster representation, the SNP administration and the indy voting public, required fucking reading for all of the past three and a quarter years.
Seems though, that when the boot is on the other foot… it’s one rule for some and quite another for HMG. The public interest…
It was in the public’s interest to be fully informed BEFORE any EU ref was ever put before them. It was in the public interest to have access to ALL the facts pro and contra EU membership. It was in the public interest to be made FULLY aware of the consequences of any given scenario of leaving the EU regarding the economy, Northern Ireland agreements, the standing UK devolution settlements and the pledges made to Scotland’s electorate on the 2014 indyref. It was in the public’s interest that they went into any EU ref with the full agreement of the devolved parliaments (they do constitute nation partners, right?) and that contingencies for both votes were in place.
Those were in the public’s interest.
Given the utter and complete lack of ALL of the above. It would appear to me however, that the public’s interests were never really considered at all.
Another superb cartoon, Chris, crafted as usual with the aid of a scalpel.
Perfect symbolism for The British Empire heading for a very hard Brexit.
The UK will be a write off.
That’s why Hamish is saving Scotland.
Notice how JB is driving in a sleepy hypnotic trance.
And they all lived happily ever after.
The End.
Fin.
O/T
I saw Andrew Neil getting very excited when someone from right wing think tank (I don’t think this was actually mentioned just IEA so if you didn’t know what it was you were in the dark) telling us the NHS needs more privatisation and she had the numbers to prove it she claimed.
More money would not make it any better, it is the fact that is not private/insurance based that is the problem apparently. If only she could point to a public service that improved after privatisation that didn’t involve massive increases in cost I may have taken her more seriously.
Maybe the BBC’s next task will be to soften up the public for the next big privatisation.
no crumple zone in a moggie & no transition period in brexit, its a car crash right enough, great toon chris
@Macart
Much true in what you are saying there.
Great cartoon again.
My Hamish, tucked into the RH corner of my windscreen, never flinches on our travels…had a few folk notice him too!
I remember well,when younger, adding those little dalek indicator bulb things to a Morris 1000 to replace the defunk old flip up indicators for my father-law who owned such a beastie while I was in a sporty triumph 2000 🙂
Nice one Chris.
Though I still think JB will crap his Union Jack Y fronts and veer away at the last second.
The brinkmanship used by the arrogant entitled British is probably just a charade to appease the hard brexiteers.
Soft Brexit dressed as hard,is their game IMO.
I had this vision while listening to Gary Robertson’s interview with Stephen Kerr, of the penny slowly dropping across Scotland as No Voters realise that all the warnings given out by the SNP were not just doom and gloom, but that the SNP has actually been right all along. And that those former No Voters will say to the Tories, “Ah, you know what? Just do what you want, but we’re off”.
In the interview yesterday, Kerr admitted that he hadn’t even read the impact assessments yet, but had “every confidence” that Theresa May would “get the best deal for Britain”.
That mantra sticks in my craw, even worse than the “strong and stable”. But I hope they keep on using it, it has a drip-drip effect.
Brexiteers would love to go back to the great days of Brutish motoring,
blue passports and Brutish Leyland cars,Hillman Imps and MG Rover sun always shining knotted handkerchief and lamb chops for tea,
nostalgic pish.
@gerry parker says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:55 am:
No seat belt on either. This isn’t going to end well.
“Very skillful cartoon Chris.”
Nae fitted seat belts in auld Morris Minor Convertables, Gerry.
Unless thir retro-fitted. We aa ken yon John Bull gadgie is ower mean an auld farren tae retro-fit onythin.
He is, effter aa, a conservative an conservatives ir again ony kin o chinge, an whit like.
Ah see the Chris Cairns/Greg moodie talk in Edinburgh today is full (sold out) (the tickets are actually free).
link to eventbrite.co.uk
I’ve noticed lately that brexiteers on radio and press reviews are now claiming that the financial consequences don’t matter..
It’s all about sovereignty and getting back independence.. Financial forecasts are unreliable as know one knows the future also..
We don’t even need to make a case for Indy ref 2…
Oh silly me, different rules for British nationalists and us peasants..
Regarding the cartoon,
Driving into a brick wall, just sounds so very, very ‘british’. Yet another blunder under the banner of rule britannia stupidity. Brexit means brexit, we’re doing it no matter what, who cares if we trash the country and Scotland too, who cares if we end up with no fresh fruit and veg on the shelves, who cares if thousands lose their jobs and their homes. Time to do or die.
Just like Balaclava, eh brexiteers. It is not for us to question why.
“..Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred…”
From ‘The charge of the light brigade’
Alfred Lord Tennyson.
Auld Rock. Heh, maybe that’s the solution to EU/ UK/ NI. To redraw the border to the DUP heartlands that voted Leave and for the four border counties that voted Remain to rejoin the Republic?
@Robert Louis says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:55 am:
“Is a covert, secretive, UK Government really what brexit means??”
Don’t know about that, Robert Louis but I had Radio Jockland on as background noise this A.M.and heard some officious sounding English female stridently bemoaning the facts about Barnier and the European Union officials stance in relation to the United Kingdom Government, (a.k.a. the de facto Parliament of the Kingdom of England).
I wasn’t really listening until I became aware of what the female was moaning about, so I have no idea who, or what capacity she represented for the United Kingdom.
I found it very telling that every point she bemoaned, (i.e. the claimed lack of consultation with the Tory United Kingdom Government; the claimed European Union’s dictatorial attitude towards the United Kingdom/English parliament and so on), exactly mirrored how the Westminster Establishment has treated the Kingdom of Scotland since 1706/7.
The difference being that the United Kingdom is one of 28 equally sovereign member states of the European Union while the, so called, United Kingdom is legally supposed to be a bipartite union of two equally sovereign kingdoms but Westminster has never treated the union as such.
The brainless English female obviously couldn’t perceive the irony of her idiotic bleating and obviously wouldn’t appreciate that the European Union Officials, on the United Kingdom announcing
BRUKEXIT, had immediately adopted the line, (and rightly so), that the negotiated and agreed Freedoms of the European Union could not be cherry picked by Westminster and that there would be no special deal for Westminster. They have not changed that stance one jot since.It was always the case that the freedoms were sacrosanct and would not be changed to suit Westminster. It was always the case that Westminster must either accepted all freedoms together or they got none of them.
It certainly seems now that they will indeed get none of them.
Eton wall game? Or just an Eton mess.
galamcennalath says:
10 February, 2018 at 8:15 am
Excellent!
Is the rumour true that iEngland plans to relaunch an updated Morris 1000 with plastic body and 600cc two stroke two cylinder engine after Brexit?
Yes, it will be the only vehicle built in the UK and the only one available to buy. There will also be a 2 year waiting list to get one, and when your happy day arrives it will almost certainly break down on the way from the factory! East Germany used to have such an icon of automotive engineering, it was called a Trabant!
Naw, that’s wrong! : )
It’s more like a bunch of monkeys in the back seats fighting over who gets to wave the steering wheel around.
None of them are conscious that they’ve pulled the steering wheel off of its stalk a while back, and no one is actually steering anything.
The rest of us are watching it in ultra slow motion.
We know exactly what’s going to happen, the wall or cliff edge is inching closer, but there’s just no telling they daft monkeys. All they’re interested in is their own stupid squabbling …
M.
Just like that eh! Just saw this posted on WOS twitter.
link to gov.uk
Am sprucing myself up to attend your Summerhall do, Chris. For once I’m in the right city on the right day, at the right time. Better be worth the rip-off parking fees!
Your essential weekend reading:
Another funny film from Aardman: link to wp.me
How to look after your car: link to wp.me
@Bob Millar says: 10 February, 2018 at 9:39 am:
“This theme might also go down well amongst those older voters who generally don’t want to feel they are subsidised.”
Aye! Bob, but some of we older people knew full well that Westminster was ripping Scotland off ever since 1st May 1707 and have spent our entire life telly you and the other people of Scotland the facts – thing is you and those other younger people of Scotland were not listening and many of you who are now telling the tale told us we were, “The lunatic fringe”, and militant terrorists.
For Example we knew about the MacCrone Report but no one listened to us then. Yet now it seems it’s all the fault of the older generation, according to the now converted to the truth.
There’s stupid and there’s this
Did you know that it’s Scotlands xenophobic racist attitude towards England and the SNPs hatred of the English that’s making *Englands* Brexit more difficult and expensive because of Sturgeons incessant interferences, and she should be co-operating with the government or stay out of it
I read that this morning, on how many convoluted levels of stupid can you be to think even remotely like this
@Bill not Ben says: 10 February, 2018 at 11:19 am:
“He is driving towards hadrians wall from the scottish side …
There isn’t a, “Scottish Side to Hadrian’s wall, Bill not Ben.
Not only was it was built long before there was an England and Scotland but it is 100% well within what is The Kingdom of England and thus both sides are in England. But don’t tell the English that as they seem so certain that the wall was specifically built to keep the Scots out of England.
If we don’t tell them the real truth we will get a chunk of England when we take back our independence.
Alastair says:
I know. That’s what I was hinting at. But maybe I’m too much of a car geek 🙂
The Trabant’s body wasn’t just plastic, it was plastic made from the waste products of other industries!
I have noticed a few automotive vibes. At one point BMW were suggesting moving the Mini out of the UK if there were tariffs. Also, in the last few days Japanese companies have been giving similar warnings. Brexit could be the last straw for UK car production if it goes wrong.
It all goes beyond that. The reason why so many companies invested in the UK was because it gave a gateway to the rest of the EU. Any and all of that is at risk.
Odd world, though. I get the impression that the English regions most likely to be hurt most by Brexit are Leave strongholds. Remain areas will be hit least. I would be reticent to go as far as to say … justice. No ordinary folk win with Brexit, anywhere.
March 29th 2019 really could mean a sudden and sharp cliff edge brexit, with no transition deal.
This would be an utter catastrophy for uk business and industry.
On the other hand, it would be apparent a whole lot sooner, to everyone in Scotland (and ruk), that our economy would be decimated and Indy support would surely soar.
Make no mistake here, WM only wants a transition deal for one reason.
If there is a transition period, then the worse effects of brexit are hidden from Scots for another 2 years. (2021)
So, to hold an indyref in 2018 early 2019, as the deal goes to the EU for ratification/scrutiny, it (EU deal) can still be presented by WM as “not as bad as claimed”, which could help WM retain some No voters or waverers.
An absolute cliff edge brexit with no transition means the negative effects will be well under way before the No Deal/No Transition Deal is announced, will sharply focus Scots thinking between No to utterly disasterous brexit, or a Yes vote to independence, and getting our own deal to remain in the EU/Single Market/Customs Union.
I believe the latter scenario would result in a resounding Yes vote.
WM are desperate for No EU influence on our laws after march 29th 2019, but desperate to retain a transition arrangement, to facillitate a false sense of wellbeing, in the hope of fending off a Yes vote in late 2018/early 2019.
No transition deal is a disaster for WM in the battle to keep Scotland tied to the union.
Dr Jim says:
I had a conversation with an English acquaintance a few months back. She commented about Humza Yousaf not being Scottish so how could he be in the SNP?
I replied that he lives and works here and behaves like a Scot, so he must be one. Also, I said he was probably born here (which he was) but being born in Scotland isn’t a qualification for the SNP. We have lots of English members.
I went on to say I have never been to an SNP event without hearing some English accents. And, we have English born elected representatives.
Turned out to be quite a revelation because she had previously believed the whole ethnic Scots anti English thing. It seems many do. Sad, actually.
Aye, “It will all be fine” mumbles he.
John Bull has been told that all he has to do is hit the ‘Turbo Boost’ button to try and clear the wall (which they built all by themselves). Although little does he know, their cliff edge awaits immediately beyond their wall.
Knight Industries Two Thousand technologies.
Impact assessment not looking good.
Happy landings, not.
“Pity, such a pity” says David Bowie (fae Labyrinth)
“Ride on, see you, I could never go with you…” says Hamish.
geeo says:
Indeed. I have a very strong feeling too that this is central to their thinking. Make it through to Holyrood2021 in the hope of getting a BritNat majority, again.
However, there has been discussion on here about the Tories doing the exact opposite. If a hard Brexit looks inevitable, they would be best having IndyRef2 soon and using the threat of a hard border to keep the gullible and switherers voting NO.
We will know sooner than later what the probable style of Brexit will be. If it’s hard, there is no hiding the consequences.
Love it, Chris.
Get oot o’ that heap Hamish! It’s the look on JB’s face – eyes open but not seeing (or ignoring) what’s in front of him. Does he really expect it to just disappear?
A few months ago we managed to get a lovely newish car (thanks to my dear old mum, god bless) and I’ve been trying to persuade Mr R that we splash out on a private plate for it. Needless to say it’s going to be a bit obvious and he’s worried that ‘the yoons’ll get it, do in the windaes or the tyres’. What to do?
Interesting move by Westminster. Apparently they are going to allow ex pats to vote in British elections.
We all know what they are hoping to do here. Unionists absent from Scotland for decades will vote Unionist . Could damage the SNP.
Doug Daniel has it on twitter
@ Scott Finlayson 12.35pm
HEY YOU!!
The Hillman Imp was built in Linwood (no more) as well you know!
The one I had was the coopay model (true) and was a smashing wee motor.
Man the burds I pulled with that.
Aye happy daze, happy daze indeed. -:)
Now that’s an interesting little titbit posted by Call me Dave – why at this point in time and amid much confusion would the English government want to relax the rules on ex pat voting registration , This lot play the long game and despite what a lot of folk imagine they are not lazy or indeed stupid ,
This added to Fluffys little empire building of what appears to be a parallel government in waiting, presently being assembled in Edinburgh , the only reason would appear to be this is being set up to administer the repatriated powers from the EU ,
Fluffy is in the process of covering his arse regarding these powers, his comments regarding these powers being returned will prove correct because he never actually said that they would be returning to our parliament just retuning.
There is just now in the background a straight jacket being set in place in order to strangle the Scottish parliament by a whole series of unconnected moves that will totally nullify any and all power Holyrood presently have.
Indy ref 2 has started ,the Unionists are well up to speed and are beavering away out of sight , why has Fluffy and the rabid sidekick who appears weekly at FMQs been posted missing ? , they ain’t on bleeding holiday, I really hope Nicola and the SNP leadership are on this and have prepared to cut this lot off before they complete what they have started , this lot are playing for time , and as far as I can see are not being openly hindered in their work .
OT attitudes to women.
This utterly astonishing interview from 1970 has appeared in the last few days.
link to youtube.com
I have also read that Winnie Ewing had a tough time at WM, because she was female not because she was SNP.
I could say, “changed days”, but for some creepy men in WM, I’m not so sure it has gone away.
I find the suggestion to give ex pats the vote in UK elections absolutely outrageous. A requirement of the voting system should be that you actually live in the feckin country that your voting in.
I’m sorry, these folk chose to go and live somewhere else, so as far as I’m concerned they should have no say in what happens here. I agree with Bob Mack as to the reason why the want to do this, but naw. Jist naw.
Spittin feathers now. GRRRRRRRRRR.
What are they prepared to do:
Just hearing about the UK Guv set to extend voting rights to “expats”
So many folk who live work and pay tax here DON’T get to vote but folk abroad who neither work here, pay tax here or indeed contribute here in any meaningful way, can vote!
Somebody at Whitehall must have been tasked with the job of calculating the numbers on how many votes for or against the Tories there are in this
Or could it be there are more folk against Scottish Independence abroad than in Scotland, because the Tories are not doing this just to be nice to people
Or might it possibly maybe mibbees huv jist a wee bit tae dae wae postal votes being dead easy to fiddle especially overseas ones, the British Army Scottish Referendum ones comes tae mind a wee bitty
Let’s just see how many “British” forces are seconded to Scotland before the next Indyref
They stop our kids voting, they stop our immigrants voting
they might as well just put Scotland under martial law
Christ! I might’ve put that idea in their heids noo
If they go through with this subversion of the voting system which is bad enough as it is they’ll just encourage the other side of the Independence argument who’ll be far less pleasant than we are
Maybe that’s what they want though, Ireland all over again, except this is Scotland and there’s a hell of a lot more angry members of that team than Ireland ever had
” I_ w_l_ ‘blank’ b_ f_n_. ”
Even that is odd.
Next p_g_.
uno mas says:
It had a lot going for it. IMO a much better designed car than the Mini, despite all the hoo-ha and nostalgia surrounding the BMC offering. The Imp had an all aluminium engine block and sophisticated clutch gearbox system. And better use of space.
It was let down by poor manufacturing quality control. That must have been a Chrysler management issue. In general, though, UK cars were miles behind Japanese ones in terms of reliability. Nissans and Hondas from 1970 onwards came as a shock to UK manufacturers.
Regarding expats voting in GB elections.
I live and run a business in the expat community in Spain (have done so for 14 years) and I come across very few Scots.
I don´t reckon that more than 5% of the expat population is Scottish.
So I don´t think it would make much difference to the vote regarding Scotland.
Marie Clark says:
Quite so. By extension, they might want ethnic Scots living elsewhere in the UK to be able to vote in IndyRef2. That would be equally outrageous.
Democracy should always be about residency not ethnicity.
@Uno Mas,
120,000 in the EU alone. Many many more in Canada Australia.
Number could be quite large. No exact figure as Scotland is not recorded as a Nationally, but probably around 8- 10% of total expats worldwide. It will be significant.
The last figure I can find for to allow ex pats is 5.5 million of which approx 8%-10% will be Scots.
This was in stats life. Org. Sizeable if around 500,000 were from Scotland.
John Bull’s nose and cheeks are flushed. Looks like he’s had a few, eh?
Good one. Car maker’s also assessing how to get off.
link to swindonadvertiser.co.uk
Marie Clark @ 14:28,
galamcennalath @ 14:41,
The SG has now acquired some powers over the electoral system (not sure exactly what, tho), and consequently are running a consultation on electoral reform. Runs until 12.March. It can be found at:
link to consult.gov.scot
Seems to me anyway that residence is an essential qualification for the right to vote in any and all Scottish elections, but whatever, you can make your own views known where it might really do some good!
Lots of American and Canadian Scots who knows how they’d vote, OK not many in Spain or France, but that’s hardly the point which is, no taxation without representation and it surely must work the other way round, no representation without taxation unless the government in England proposes to tax “expats” (bloody hate that stupid word) and in that case do the “expats” want to be taxed for not living in a country and not contributing to it
I could see a court case
The new biog’ of John Maclean “The Red & the Green!” by Gerard Cairns is available at Calton Books at the Barras! Just bought a copy £7.
Hard to believe that those who emigrated away from the UK, ie immigrants to other lands, would have a vote in UK elections. Something sinister there, but what’s new.
This idea is for the rich and powerful, who will be leaving promptly when the s**t really hits the fan re their brexit. They will become ‘expats’ and still want a vote in UKOK elections. I don’t think so.
More hard to read wall crashing,
Out, Out, Out!
Brexiteers Are Driving Britain into a Wall
link to spiegel.de
I’m an “expat”. I and my husband pay tax and NI in the UK. Why should we not be allowed to vote? Just because we happen to work and live overseas?
I think you’ll find that many of the EU citizens working and living in the UK are still able to vote in their own countries too.
I’m Scottish and voted Remain. If I had been allowed to vote in Indy1, I’d have voted Yes.
No matter where in the world I have been, there are always plenty of Scots living and working there. Do you consider them no longer Scottish then?
“Spittin feathers now. GRRRRRRRR”
Ex-pats to regain vote, well that will see a large increase in postal votes for the Tories to ‘have access to’ prior to the polls closing. Nothing fishy there then! I wonder if there will be a large increase and high turnout of these voters.
Re car manufacturing in the UK and EU. Up to now the owners of the factories have held off on updating/changing the infrastructure in the UK factories for the change over to all electric cars.
At the same time many of their factories in the EU have been upgraded to produce either or in terms of oil burning or electric, with a view to going all electric soon.
If they have to up sticks from the UK, its not the end of the world for them.
Re expats getting the vote. Very alarming. How many of English origin, will game the system and claim Scotland as their area for voting. Rather a lot I suspect.
As a consolation when we have Indy ref2 we set the terms. Hope we get a move on soon.
Thanks Nana for all the links.
The penny is beginning to drop for folks I think, but there’s nothing joyous about the ‘I told you so’s. The guy who fixes my car was a No voter. When the car went in for its MOT in January this year, he told me about the disaster that is Brexit. ‘People don’t realise just how big this is, all the car parts, all of them, come from Europe, and that’s just cars.’
Which was my prompt for a wee conversation.
So, Yes we can, and now we bloody well must.
@Tat u,
Nothing personal, but the voting system will probably be postal in nature. As you may be aware there have been queries about that methodology being suitable shall we say for “Adjustment”.
Bob Mack
No apologies needed. I can see that there could be problems with postal votes, and I understand the need to sort this out, but I find the btl comments very anti “expats” on this site.
We are not all “rich”, we are not all “unionists” or “Brit nats”. We have not all given up on an independent Scotland.
I imagine the percentages of “yes” and “no” voters of Scots overseas probably work out the same as those in Scotland – or maybe even more in favour, as I have found Scots abroad tend to be more proud of Scotland when away from home.
I still have family and friends in Scotland. Not all are Yessers, sadly, and I work very hard to try and convince them to change
Is Tory MP Andrew Bowie being punted as the next Tory leader in Scotland. Check him out.
link to caltonjock.com
Expats voting.
Tatu 3 – with this new voting system I believe you and your husband should be able to vote, the old ‘no representation without taxation’ or whatever. If you are required by your work to live and work abroad but pay tax here in Scotland do you have an ‘S’ on your payslip/P60? This should be the deciding factor on whether ‘expats’ could vote in Scottish elections.
I also believe this will be abused by the system.
My hubby has relatives who have been in Canada for over 50 years. I don’t think they should have the vote.
I lived and worked in Spain for 12 years and paid my tax in Spain also my wealth tax on my property in Spain plus my business tax because I was registered there even though I was Extranero
My question @tatu3 is how were you asked to pay tax in the UK if registered in another country unless you have an address in the UK and or business or property requiring a UK tax code or unless you are member of HM Armed forces and not considered domiciled
I’m genuinely puzzled
I have noticed a few comments above about recent comments from the Japanese with respect to Brexit and its likely effects on their investments in UK.
This should not have come as a surprise to the UK Government because way back in September 2016 the Japanese sent a very detailed, 15 page letter to the UK Government setting out what it wanted/needed from the Brexit negotiations if it was to continue with its investments in the UK.
Here is a link to an article published at the time in the Guardian.
link to archive.is
I think some of the comments at the time were along the lines of ‘the Japanese have produced more than the UK Government hasconcerning negotiations and what is required from them’ That still appears to be the case.
Expat voting in UK elections.
They always have been able to vote but it is time limited under what is known as the 15-year rule.
The UK Government published plans in 2016 to scrap this rule but had certainly not done so in time for the 2017 general election.
To make this change would require an Act of Parliament I believe.
There was a Commons Library briefing paper on the subject published in January 2018. Here is a link to it
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
O/T
Independence Live crowd funder – 94% and 15hours to go.
Come guys, no good moaning about the EBC & other sh:tes.
Also remember your daily TSTV.
We need every platform to get the word out there.
re;Tatu@4.15
Not ‘anti expat’ at all, not in the slightest and no idea why anyone would think that. But, questioning the ethics and validity of allowing those who have not lived in the UK for many years, to have a major vote in what happens to the country, (though we know that the ‘UK’ is not in fact a country) politically.
I have family in Australia, who have lived there for over 25 years, I love them. I do not however want them to have a vote in the UK. Their knowledge of and interest in UK politics is minimal at best, they have an expat conservatism, which is not relevant in the politics of a country they do not live in. That’s relevant to their own Australian political arena.
Their knowledge if any, and information of UK politics, comes from their own biased media. It’s bad enough people in the UK not being properly informed, but to allow folks to put a cross on a sheet of paper who are even less likely to be informed, is dangerous imo.
Well, they do call them Moggy Minors, Rees-Mogg will be so pleased.
And its a cut and shunt pretending to be a convertible! Get out now Hamish!
Like the UK it was alright in its day but despite May and Mogg we may not get back to the glory days of 1948. More likely chaos of the early 70’s; the power cuts, petrol rationing and permanent financial crises before we got into the Common Market as it was then.
Great toon, Chris.
@H&S
I had 2 of them, an 848 split-screen and a 998, with a standard tolerance of a thou, I smoothed out mine and tuned them, valves lapped the lot – all standard parts, and kept going by knowing every scrappie around. I broke a crankshaft in two on the 998 after a 90 mile measured on the A1 / M1 by speedo and mileposts at 95 mph.
As I always say, it’s not the car that’s slow, it’s the driver.
Comments re allowing ex-pat Scots to vote in Inderef2 assume that the Scottish Government would agree to it. Unlikely.
However a trade-off could be to ban English ex-pats in Scotland from voting in the Referendum
Can’t have it both ways.
Re ex pat Scots. The largest group will be living in England. When they won’t be exposed to campaigning, only the most politically engaged will bother exploring the real issues behind our bid for Indy.
I may be wrong, but I suspect many would vote to maintain the Union because as residents in England they will consider that to be in their personal interests.
Approx. 750,000 people living in England were born in Scotland. Over half a million could register to vote if it were allowed. That could be 1 in 8 voters!
I think it wrong that they can so fundamentally effect Scotland’s future when many of them will probably never move back.
Of course in all things there are always exceptions, like The Rev himself.
As for the rest of the world, I see figures of about quarter of a million. To be honest I think them more likely to vote YES, especially those in the EU.
However, a simple and fair approach IMO is only those who have been resident in Scotland for a reasonable time should vote in Indyref2.
Re Brexit and slightly O/T
Latest plan i’ve read concerns fruit growers who are now planning to grow their raspberries and blueberries in China because they don’t think they’ll get enough migrant workers to pick them next summer.
An Angus farmer hashed to throw away hundreds of tons of food because there were no pickers. It has cost him £ 30,000 and he said it could have fed 15,000 people for a year???
(not sure his arithmetic is up to scratch?)
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly. If you’ve met one you would understand immediately why. Reactionary Unionist, little Englanders to the their finger tips. Political clones of Davidson’s dreary gang.
Besides as the British state does not require its citizens to have ID cards the logistics of such an enterprise would be complex and open to massive fraud.
Ottomanboi says:
10 February, 2018 at 6:41 pm
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly.
They couldn’t last time so don’t worry, too much.
USA citizens can vote from outside America for their lifetimes. England’s already got 10+million voters that never vote. Look at them now.
@ Ottomanboi
I am a Scottish expat and I am typing this post with my non ractionary non unionist non little Englander finger tips.
There are plenty of Scots who live outside the country and support independence.
I think the idea of using scottish tax code for being allowed to vote and prove residency is a good idea.
Not sure how it would affect spouses who are not working and taken time off to bring up kids.
Do they still get a tax code?
Good friend of mine has lived in England for many years and there’s no doubt she would vote against Indy. There again she is a Borderer but the last conversation I had with her about the issue got a bit heated. She insisted things were very nasty in her old home town at the time of the 2014 referendum and naturally the Yes voters were to blame!
I’m pretty sure she believes everything she reads in the gutter press down south because Nicola is the most awful woman apparently. Not a good idea to give these expats the vote imo.
@uno mas
Bravo! but possibly an exception proving the rule lol!. I’ve met some horrors.
Ottomanboi says:
10 February, 2018 at 6:41 pm
Allowing so-called Scottish expats to vote in any future referendum would be the summit of folly.
Complete nonsense. Insulting as well. You would think that well educated, skilled Scottish citizens with international connections would be considered an asset to a newly independent country.
@ Ottomanboi
And I´ve met some real independence warriors.
You must keep poor company!
Under no circumstances should ex-pats be allowed to vote.
Most of them look back at home through rose tinted spectacles, and remember the happy times in the old country, they resent the thought of any change to their ‘Auld Country’ and would rather things were left the way they were.
.
During Indy Ref 1 I met a few expats who “came home” from England, and full of the gutter press hated the SNP and hated the idea of Indy. Often their knowledge of modern Scotland was very sketchy. The whole town of Corby filled with ex-pats remember pled with Scotland “don’t go”, and they were the nicer ones. The attitude I saw from ex-pat Scots in England myself on visits was very anti-indy. If the 800,000 got a vote, I reckon it would be about 700,000 NO and a maximum of 100,000 YES.
I personaly would not wish to be allowed to vote in an election in a country where I did not live or pay taxes.
People who migrate vote with their feet.
End of!
Came home for the weekend or a week’s visit I should have said.
The ‘ex-pat’ question is one which causes full-on arguments and bitterness. Alex Salmond, in interview post-indyref 1 (forget where) said that deciding who would be granted a vote was one of the most difficult things the SNP had to wrestle with, and he said it in such a way that it was difficult not to surmise that he felt they’d got it wrong.
I don’t have any strong feelings on it one way or t’other – I just want *my* vote to be counted properly and the poll to be fair. That’s all. Decisions on who should be eligible should be made by the SG. Likewise with other contentious issues e.g. currency – just keep things as simple as possible, make yer minds up, then stick to what you’ve said. Indy supporters then get behind you and we make the final push to rid ourselves of these WM maniacs.
@Tatu3 says: 10 February, 2018 at 3:38 pm:
“No matter where in the world I have been, there are always plenty of Scots living and working there. Do you consider them no longer Scottish then? “
That’s the usual pish blethered by certain, “expats”.
Let us be quite clear exactly what is the definition of an, “Expat”.
The term is short for:- expatriate
noun: expatriate; plural noun: expatriates.
an expatriate is a person who lives outside their native country.
If their native country is Scotland and they mainly reside outwith Scotland they are still Scots but they are not one of the people of Scotland and they will live, work and pay tax in their adopted country.
In 1962 my entire immediate family, excepting my myself, my wife and our three children sold up, packed their bags and settled in Australia. Both my mother and father are buried in Australian and my sibling sister, her husband and her children and their children are still in Australia and none have ever set foot back in Scotland. They will forever be ethnic Scots but have been part of the people of Australia since 1962 and some of the younger ones are born and bred Australians.
The policy of the SNP has long been that they represent, “All the People of Scotland”, and it is often repeated, “It matters not where you came from but does matter where we are all going forward together.”
It has long been the history of Scotland that we welcome immigrants with open arms and there is no history of ghettos in Scotland. So much so that immigrant families are absorbed as Scots within a single generation.
The truth is, that if you wish to be one of the people of Scotland you must come and live in Scotland, register to vote in Scottish elections and pay your taxes in Scotland.
O/T
The National today had an article that reported the negative impact on the UK’s trade deficit recently due to a temporary closure for repair of the North Sea Forties Oil Pipeline. (link to thenational.scot )
Linked to the short term closure of the pipeline, The National’s piece states: “… the ONS (Office for National Statistics) said a drop in the UK’s oil exports – as well as large increases in the price of fuel imports – had the largest impact on the trade in goods deficit, which widened by £3.3bn, …” Note that figure, an increase in the deficit by £3.3bn, from what was a short term operational interruption.
This is worth thinking about very carefully. Once Scotland becomes independent, c.90% of the present oil production from the UK Continental Shelf overnight becomes production from Scottish waters i.e. IT BECOMES SCOTLAND’S EXPORTS, no longer an export from the Kingdom of England.
From England’s perspective, it will be like the Forties Pipeline being closed permanently – except much worse!
In my darker moments, I fear that the implications for England’s presently fragile economy of Scotland becoming independent are so bad (much worse than but added to BREXIT) that the very substantial and ruthless powers of the British establishment will simply not permit it to happen!!
Stewart’s @ 7.26pm. They are going to fight very hard to hold on to Scotland
I am definitely in the minority amongst the ex pat Scots that I know down here. As in I, of course, can’t wait for Scotland to be a normal self governing country.
I blame the press and negative media. (However one is Highland land owning Tory farmer stock!)
Much as I would love to be able vote for Indy, if expats skewed the vote and the result (whatever it was) turned out to be a disaster for Scotland then we wouldn’t have to live with the consequences. And that doesn’t seem right to me.
If ex-pats wish to support Indy they can always vote with their wallets and purses.
Plenty of Indy supporting groups desperate for funds and there is the option of an IScot subscription as well.
We want a better Scotland and any ex-pats who want to return, before or after Indy will be most welcome. We need the skills and the drive.
Robert Peffers @ 7:26 pm
I’d like to say I agree completely with your analysis.
What you argue for is completely compatible with the CIVIC NATIONALISM that I understood that the vast majority of the Yes movement agreed with. If I’m wrong on the latter then we need to beware – there are some very unpleasant ‘slippery slopes’ out there!
In May 2014, 3 of my sons their wives, children and I went to Spain for a week’s holiday. 2 days after we arrived my eldest son, who lives in Surrey, said to me, completely out of the blue, ” You won’t get in the EU.” To which I replied, “Fishing, renewables and oil.” He never mentioned the indyref again.
I wouldn’t give him the vote, although to be fair he is having second thoughts since the UK voted for Brexit.
Dr Jim @ 3.09pm
No taxation without representation and it surely must work the other way round, no representation without taxation
100% correct Doc and I think that should be included on EVERYONE’S response on the SG’s website
link to consult.gov.scot
C’mon people lets show Nicola that we will not allow wastemonster to fcuk with our ref , and let’s make it clear we DEMAND independent non electoral commission observers ,no holiday home owner votes , no non resident student votes . postal votes severely restricted and proof required to qualify , minimum residential qualification of 6 years
As others have posted if you don’t pay TAX here you have no right to determine OUR and our KIDS FUTURE
@stewartb says: 10 February, 2018 at 7:56 pm:
“I understood that the vast majority of the Yes movement agreed with. If I’m wrong on the latter then we need to beware – there are some very unpleasant ‘slippery slopes’ out there!”
You are correct on both counts, stewartb, there are indeed several very slippery slopes out there but I’ve supported the SNP for many decades and, to date, your second count has always come out on top and Civic Nationalism has always come out on top.
It is, though often sad that when the Civic Nationalism wins through there has always been the sad loss of many good patriotic Scots that fall through the cracks and go down along with the more extreme forms of nationalism.
Perhaps the worst such episode was the expulsion from the party of Siol nan Gaidheal, (Seed of the Gael), and such right-wing organisations as, “The Free Scotland Party and “The Scottish Enterprise Party”.
Here’s one such reference to such things.
link to heraldscotland.com
The trouble with such organisations is that the SNP were being tarred with the same, very broad, brush but the SNP has always espoused true civic nationalism.
@Robert Peffers
Pretty much Robert. The franchise criteria currently stands as residence. The people who live, work and pay taxes within Scotland’s borders.
I don’t see that changing as regards Scottish elections or a referendum (at the moment). Of course the UK’s diaspora have an opinion on the politics of their point of origin. It’s only natural and all too human, but they chose to live, work and pay taxes in some other part of the globe. That is the nation to which they owe their own current focus.
To those who wish the indy movement well from overseas, their support is greatly appreciated and any aid in making our case heard across the globe likewise.
Please understand that the vote of any referendum rightly belongs to those who wish to make life in Scotland their future.
Rock (28th June 2017 – “Slight reprise”):
“The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”
Ian Brotherhood;
re Alex Salmond 2014 vote
I distinctly remember him doing a Q and A after a TV discussion and a young, smartly dressed lad asked, I was born and raised in Scotland but I’m working here in London now, is it fair that I won’t get the opportunity to vote re indy?
Alex’s reply was classic, he was polite, firm and informative -the referendum about Scotland’s future should be decided by the people who live and work in Scotland, this is standard practice in national referenda and since it is happening two years from now, that’s surely enough time for you to get a job and move back to Scotland in time to vote if that is so important to you.
I took that advice, moving back in July 2014 ( without a job to go to) but ensuring that I had the right to vote.
I sometimes wonder if the young man did, or was he a plant?
Knowing what we do about the rigging of QT audiences, I suspect he was the latter…
“The truth is, that if you wish to be one of the people of Scotland you must come and live in Scotland, register to vote in Scottish elections and pay your taxes in Scotland.”
Agree with Mr P.
And, as others have said, no taxation without representation, and the other way around.
No-one’s saying some “ex-pats” are not potential Yessers but many are reactionary types who remember the Scotland of the 60/70/80s, like my brother, who was of the Dambuster generation, lived in Kent and would never, ever, have voted for an independent Scotland.
Great supporter of our diddy football and rugby teams, though…..
Those living in and paying tax in Scotland of whatever origin are the only ones who should have the right to vote in Indyref2, and I hope the SG are going to tighten the loopholes the desperate Britnats will be hoping to insert.
Uno Mas , Tatu3 AND all SCOTS FROM ANYWHERE , Genuinely THANK YOU for your support for our country Scotland ,
Please do not take the discussion and comments on expats as derisory or bigoted towards yourselves , it is just that we in Scotland are suffering the austerity , brutality , denigration , disrespect , lies and misinformation on a daily basis personally , and I like many are totally suspicious that the WM govt conceding voting rights to expats is totally out of character for them , as you are all probably aware these duplicitous dangerous cretins never give anything away for free unless it is a life threatening illness .
So with these thoughts ask yourselves in our situation what would your reaction be .
Again thanks for your support and we hope you will come home and help us build a Scotland fit for EVERYONE
@stewartb
The simple fact is that Scotland would – over time, run a trade surplus which tends to result in a government surplus (see national sectoral accounting) Not something that is special in itself unless you are a neoliberal Tory or blairite.
Englands trade deficit would certainly increase adding to the fiscal deficit. This is why they can never let us go.
Many Brit nats play the ‘deficit’ card against Scotland. Well for one, you can only run a deficit by issuing more money and then issuing bonds (we don’t have the sovereign power to do this)
Also they fail to understand the difference between personal deficits (in their own lives) and govt deficits. A govt will run a defcit to make up shortfall in tax revenue. At the aggregate (whole economy) spending IS income. Your and my spending depends on someone spending money.
Reducing the amount of money in the economy by imposing austerity etc, ultimately reduces the amount of jobs in the economy and hence tax yield, adding to the size of the deficit.
Hi from Oz.
My guess is the redacted word is ‘normally’
No residency period then no vote simple.
Been a lurker for a long time and have learned a lot on this site. Today I decided to make a wee comment just to get ma feet wet, but I’m quite shocked at the negativity being shown towards fellow Scots on here. I agree that proof of residency should be required to vote at the very least but this arguing about who’s a Scot and who’s no’ beggars belief. Think I’ll go back to lurking.
@silverbuick 9:01pm
Agreed.
We think like Scots, talk like Scots and act like Scots. We ARE Scots.
We just should not have the vote unless we are resident.
Hi from Tassie:
It’s breakfast time here and have just switched on Ipad so haven’t read many comments on site but it suddenly occurred to me regarding voting in a second Independence Referendeum – will Stuart be allowed a vote. I hope so!!
@frogesque.
I agree about giving our support even if we can’t vote. I support Wings, obviously, and love my iScot subscription and am a member of the SNP, even though I can’t vote for them. I support many of the causes highlighted on these pages. It’s not much but I hope it helps.
There is a family home that I hope to be able to afford to keep on when it will, sadly, become empty. I hope one day to return with my Scottish passport and the kids too, who desperately wanted to stay members of the EU.
I would like to see Barnier, or whoever make some definitive statement regarding Scotland’s ability to stay in the EU. It could be a game changer.
@silverbuick –
Welcome! Please don’t disappear back into the shadows, we need the fresh voices!
@Meg –
Aye, it’s easy to forget that these decisions had been made, what, a full two years before the referendum? Even if Alex/Nicola and abody else in the SNP realised (in 2012/13) that they’d made bad calls on some of these issues, they couldn’t be seen to change the broad thrust of ‘Scotland’s Future’, it would’ve blown the entire campaign to bits. We’ll maybe have to wait until AS and NS et al publish their diaries before we’ll know the full details, but I suspect quite a few of us won’t be around by then!
😉
Silverbuck 9.01pm There is no arguing about who is a Scot and who isnae , if you want tae be a Scot you ur , the discussion not argument is about voting rights , if you have an opinion you are welcome to share it , people may not agree with your opinion but that is their prerogative . Don’t just lurk give opinion
I missed this earlier too much footie and golf 🙂
but for those that haven’t seen it.
Hark the Herald.
Nicola Sturgeon to declare victory in battle for EU powers
link to archive.is
So hands up those who believe the Herald article today that Sturgeon has won and May has done a u-turn on clause 11.
link to heraldscotland.com
Maybe someone can Arcive it for us. -ta!
We’ve to believe that WM ministers have agreed that powers returning from Brussels should go to the devolved Scottish Government. Fears that Peers would reject the Bill as unconstitutional have caused the reversal of the planned return to WM.
Here are the weasel words from the Herald Article ( my italics) and I think this is the WM get out clause which will allow them to send all the returning powers to Fluffy at his new super -duper HQ in Edinburgh:-
*One source close to the process explained: “Officials working on Clause 11 are now moving to a phase where they put the powers more directly into the hands of the devolved administrations; reversing where Clause 11 actually started from but enabling the UK Government to put in appropriate safeguards to protect the internal market as and when they are required. This is of fundamental importance.”
The vast majority of the 111 powers and responsibilities coming from Brussels after Brexit Day will go immediately to Holyrood but others will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market.*
@Meg merrilees
Jings! You must be a seer! 🙂
I don’t believe it.
I think his will Mary, don’t know if many have noticed but on Stu’s twitter page it no longer says ‘Bath’ as his location, it says ‘Greater Scotland’. Unless he’s just put that there to establish his ‘Scottish’ bonefides, I think it may mean that he is already back in Scotland.
I could of course be completely wrong about this, but it has definitely altered from his previous location of Bath.
@silverbuick
Lurk no more and welcome. 🙂
Being a Scot is a state of mind and a way of living. You don’t need a state or borders to care. Voting as a Scot is a point of law and precedence.
There’s a world of Scots out there. 🙂
They knew in the Lords, in fact it was a central part of many of those participating in the debate, that they had to find some weasly worded way of the devolved powers returning directly to the parliament, if they didn’t then the UK faced huge constitutional crisis? It was inevitable that they would fudge this in some way to somehow get ‘legislative consent’ from the parliament.
Now, where does this leave us, we’re still coming out of the CU and SM? What fucking difference whether we have 111 powers or none, when our economy will be devastated by this?
What about MPs, should they be allowed an indyrer2 vote?
– after all they only live and work in London because there are no proper jobs for them in Scotland, ie much the same reason that expatriated all the other expats.
The Herald article is “Oh look there’s a squirrel!” Bullshit.
The big story is Japanese car companies’s plan to relocate post hard Brexit.
Holy shit don’t mention that.
All will be for the best in the best of all possible worlds.
Oops.
O/T
Put some stuff on Off Topic following the YES meeting in Glasgow today
Meg merrilees @ 9.28pm If that Herald story is “true”, whit the hell is Mundell up too. He seems to be busy empire building in Edinburgh.
I’ll no haud ma breath on this one.
To all of you folk who are upset by the expat vote thingy, read twathater at 8.56 & 9.24 and Macart @ 9.41pm, says it all really.
To all the lurkers, lurk no more, and welcome. Give us your views and opinions, nice to have some newer voices.
OT – defence
Handy infographic about timeline for QE and PoW
link to savetheroyalnavy.org
That’s just reminded me I’ll need to phone my Aunty in Birmingham for her permission and approval as to what colour I paint ma hoose
Oh haud oan I’ve got a nephew in America am I no entitled tae a vote on sumthin there then
Christ on a bike!
O/T
Just in case you miss this – about award nominations for the documentary firm ‘London Calling’ about BBC bias:
link to indyref2.scot
Congratulations to all involved!
As I believe the F.M. quoted recently, “I am Scottish by formation” from author Muriel Spark. Thanks for the kind replies everyone.
A private political conversation overheard by a French Ambassador and reported to a newspaper by a Liberal Democrat, I’ve redacted the names
We’d like to grow the economy please so we need immigrants
Naw! get yer ain fruit pickers
We were thinking about scientists and neurosurgeons and stuff
Naw! train yer weans get them aff thur xboxes
That’ll take too long and our economy will go backwards
Is that a fact! good!
It sounds like you want Scotland to fail
Nailed it sweaties! you’re so slow ya bunch of ginger nuts
This is the same thing you’ve said to every other country who left the UK and they still left no matter what you did
Aye but we wrecked them before we left and that’s all that counts! Engerland! Wee arra championees
Welcome silverbuick.
Hey there Daisy Walker xx ~
“Here are Scotland’s terms” (105,253 current hits).
link to youtube.com
Welcome back silverbuick ~
Cool car.
Yes 🙂
Being a Scot arises from being born in Scotland, or having parents or grandparents born in Scotland and choosing to become a citizen of Scotland, or, coming to live here and with the necessary residence qualifications, seeking Scottish citizenship,
The idea that I can be born in say, China, live in China, but believe that simply believing myself a Scot makes me legally a Scot, is without basis in law, as well as being rather ridiculous and just a shade delusional.
I might drive at 90 miles an hour but consider myself as driving at 70 miles an hour. A speed gun and the law of the land will decide the reality of my situation.
Cactus
Damned right YES. And this time we OWN project fear (brexit) and all the positivity of Indy
We’re the safe, sensible, choice of least resistance, ones, folks.
Nice sensible facts, 2 x negative (Brexit), 1 x positive e.g. Talking up Scotland, etc…
Different pace and ‘mood music’ to the last one I grant you, but realistically much more in keeping with the Scottish personality – we totally get shit storms and dour.
They’ve geared it down to our level and they’re playing our tune. Superb.
Yes we can and now we must.
I might drive at 90 miles an hour but consider myself as driving at 70 miles an hour. A speed gun and the law of the land will decide the reality of my situation.”
Ex[ats or immigrants, whatever happened to John Barrowman or rather, what did he spend his share of the JK Trolling Better Together millions, all the way from Palm Springs, California, USA. Its him what Teresa wants to give the vote to, which is very generous of her.
From the UKOK archives.
link to youtube.com
@silverbuick says: 10 February, 2018 at 9:01 pm:
“… I’m quite shocked at the negativity being shown towards fellow Scots on here.”
First of all welcome to the blog and good to get new blood. But Whoa! On the negativity being shown to fellow Scots.
What negativity would that be? No one has said that they. are not Scots. That is exactly what the term, “expatriate Scot”, means as does its short version, “expat”. It simple means a Scot not living and/or working in Scotland. It does not mean they cease to be ethnic Scots.
The SNP laid down the description many, many years ago and for very good reason. It was far from being a hurried decision, “The People of Scotland”. They defined it as:-
“Anyone, of any colour, creed or country of origin who is mainly resident in Scotland, is registered to vote in Scottish elections and who pays tax as a resident of Scotland.”
In other word their origins and ethnicity is unimportant but what is important is that they are one of the people of Scotland and, believe it or not, that includes ethnic Irish, Welsh and English residents in Scotland who live, work and pay their taxes as a Scottish resident.
First of all the SNP’s name is NOT, “The Scottish Nationalist Party”, (i.e. a party of nationalists).
It is, “The Scottish National Party”, (i.e. the party of the Scottish Nation). Although you wouldn’t think so if you believe the Westminster Establishment and its political parties and their state owned and controlled media. These never miss a chance to refer to them wrongly as, “The Scottish Nationalists”.
In point of fact the Westminster lot and their supporters are demonstrably far more, “Blood & Soil Nationalistic”, than the SNP has ever been.
Which is why the SNP have always claimed that they represent, “All the People of Scotland”, and do not claim to represent only Scots by birth.
So it is a fairly simple matter to define just who it is they represent for they cannot, under any circumstance, represent a person, born of two born in Scotland parents, who lives, works and pays taxes to a foreign country. i.e. expatriate Scots.
It really is just as simple as that. Such a person is an Expatriate Scot and their government is the foreign power they live under and support with their taxes.
No one say they are not ethnic Scots but it would be ludicrous to allow such as my own sister, who has paid her taxes and been permanently resident in Queensland, Australia for over 56 years. Factually she was born in the same house, in the same room, in the same bed of the same mother and father as myself.
No one claims such as she are not Scots but I’d be the very first to complain that she has no right to vote in either a United Kingdom or Scottish election. Of course if she were to come home to Scotland to stay she would no longer be an expatriate Scot.
Does that, perhaps, clarify the matter?
Aye may have found the very four-wheeled beastie:
link to youtube.com
If it’s good enough for the c_a_h / t_s_ / d_m_y (singular)
Why would they want to crash it into a wall?
Spare parts are not available.
Pity, such a pity.
Silverbuick, welcome to wings, we have a Wingers social get together on 7th April in Woodside in Glenrothes, venue is The Otters Head. Feel free to come along and meet us, new wingers are always welcome.
Full details are posted over on the Off Topic page and will be update regularly.
Mornin’ Robert Peffers ~
Do ya reckon John Bull could do with a Cargobob to try n get over:
link to youtube.com
Not too long to go now.
Cargobob to no avail.
Love Scotland.
Everybuddy.
Whom else watched this on their guest tv yesterday KITT:
link to youtube.com
Da-da-ra-da.
Aye did.
Look out for that glass wall at The End of this clip.
Breaker come in William Wallace…
Ahm a Night rider:
link to youtube.com
@manandboy says: 10 February, 2018 at 11:59 pm:
“The idea that I can be born in say, China, live in China, but believe that simply believing myself a Scot makes me legally a Scot, is without basis in law.”
Balderdash!
You are confusing three quite different things – ethnicity, culture – and law.
For example Cliff Richards was born in India, of English parents. Is he Indian or English? What, though, if he had been born in India of English parents but brought up by an Indian Nanny as culturally Indian?
I worked with a bloke called Hamish MacAlpine whose Scots born mother and father died in a shipping disaster. He was adopted and brought up from a baby by a an English couple in Portsmouth.
He was thus ethnically Scottish but had never lived in Scotland and was most certainly culturally English. What’s more he didn’t want it any other way and actually disliked Scotland and Scots.
New Knight, different day:
link to youtube.com
Guest tv has been a long while.
Cheers tae oor J.L. Baird.
That one was fun 😉
Hit the CO2 KITT!
X.
Most countries in the EU disagree with you, Robert. But I don’t expect that’ll make any difference to your opinion.
Marie Clark
If that Herald story is ‘true’ then what is Mundell up to – exactly!!!
Enlarging the Scottish office- increasing the number of staff and budget and preparing a large building in Edinburgh for what?
To rule Scotland instead of the elected Scottish Government… that’s what I mean about the weasel words –
“…enabling the UK Government to put in appropriate safeguards ( the enlarged Scotland Office) to protect the internal market as and when they are required. This is of fundamental importance.”
In other words:
We’ll let nasty Nicola think that she’s won, she’ll not hold her pesky Indyref2, the Sewel Convention will see to it that despite all 111 powers returning to Holyrood, all decisions taken in the devolved regions will have to be agreed by the relevant Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland office in situ – “appropriate safeguards as and when they are required”
“The vast majority of the 111 powers and responsibilities coming from Brussels after Brexit Day will go immediately to Holyrood but others will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market.”
So the really important ones like fishing, farming, energy etc will need common UK frameworks to protect the internal market from Scotland because WM’s sunk without control over those matters.
I don’t trust them one iota and I’m sure the alarm bells are ringing at Bute House as well.
It’s a ruse.
When did YOU last use your illusion?:
link to youtube.com
Eh listen to ra words and look at Cairnstoon above.
The storm is getting closer, it’s not strange.
Back to you Yes2 ~
Home X.
I’m Scottish my Mum was English her father and mother were English but her grandmother was Irish
My Father was Scottish as was his father and mother for about a thousand years as far as I know and they could have been black from wherever they came from, who knows, what matters is who you are now and where you want to be
Culture is good and Scotland has thousands of years of it long before anyone else set foot on these Islands and it should be rightly celebrated as other normal countries do
Most of Scotlands problems stem from the Empires Englification of all things, it’s how they went about their business of robbing half the world so folk shouldn’t take it so personally against themselves that many Scottish people resent that culture being stamped out
Think of it like the American Indian or the Australian Aborigine, Scots have a right to get touchy from time to time about their own place in the world
England has it’s place in the world too, that’s why they call themselves British now, ye see, comedy, you’ve gotta have a wee laugh
ps did ye see the kilted GnR dolphin above Scotland?
Lookin’ good Dr Jim ~
Fuckin’ excellent in fact 🙂
It’s weekend Sunday.
Good knight.
Maybe.
Baby.
Impact assessment.
Thanks to TWATHATER I’ve cooled down a bit now but it’s obvious to me that some Scots like OTTOMANBOI have big gobs and faulty wiring to the brain regarding Scots who don’t live inside of Scotlands borders.
My family moved south to England to find work which meant that I spent most of my youth/education in Yorkshire. Later I met a German woman and ended up in Germany where we married.
I’m a Scot who lives abroad but that doesn’t make me any less Scottish or hate my country. But, no, it’s not right for me to have a vote but it is definitly right that all people who live and work in Scotland should be able to vote. Incl. all those foreigners who made Scotland THEIR home.
I’m also btw. the proud owner of a German driving licence (the old version called a “Lappen” (nickname meaning “dish/floor cloth”) where it doesn’t say UK or British in it but Scottish and Scotland. I tricked them…!! 😉
I also happen to be a pensioner, you know Ottomanboi, those folk who all have white hair, are swivel-eyed tory voting loonies etc.
It’s the middle of the night so probably no ones reading this but it still had to be said though.
There be a song for every occasion.
Graf Midgehunter @ 2:17am
Its the middle of the day here so I am reading your post.
Well said.
Meg Merrilees 1.16am I agree with all you posted apart from the bit ( it’s a ruse ) it’s not its a fecking insult just how stupid do these a*sewipes think we and the SNP SG are
Aussi, cheers for yer shared 9:28pm Meg merrilees and call me dave
link to archive.is
Nice timing 🙂
Yous know.
Hey Cactus how about this one….’Baby you can drive my car”
I am one of those expats that we are talking about and agree it would be an extremely bad idea to give us the vote.I have two brothers one who has lived in England most of his adult life and he is against independence.Both brothers are low information voters and Brexit fans and avoid discussion on anything to do with politics.One day i would hope to return but only to live in a free and independent Scotland and will continue to contribute where i and when i can until that day happens.
Stuart McTavish
MP’s don’t actually live in London, they aren’t ‘expats’ in any sense whatsoever!
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
@manandboy says: 11 February, 2018 at 1:13 am:
“Most countries in the EU disagree with you, Robert. But I don’t expect that’ll make any difference to your opinion.”
And your 28 sources for making that claim, manandboy, are what exactly?
@ yesindyref2 10.06
Your O/T on defence. I scrolled down on this page and came across this:
link to savetheroyalnavy.org
It is dated 1st April and I only got to about the 4th or 5th line before I had to give up, but some people actually think like this?! Just a bit o’ banter?
@Graeme says: 11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am:
“It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.”
Aye! Graeme, and it is also worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to what it originally was under the Romans, and then the several versions of the Germanic Tribes that still are legally the monarchy of England and the hereditary peers, we would all be slaves, serfs or villeins to the landed gentry. BTW: only the male members of that elite group of franchised Lords would have the vote as females and children were legally owned by those males.
Some of whom are the monarchy and others are descendants of the aristocracy who still sit in the House of Lords as hereditary peers and Lords of the Law and the Church of England. We are forced to pay them each £300 per day, plus expenses, while subsidising their high quality food, drink and leisure activities.
Many of those slaves, serfs or villeins who are forced to pay for these lords are homeless and starving on the streets of the
disUnited Kingdom.Links
link to welfareweekly.com
link to scottovoce.wordpress.com
link to indyref2.scot
link to autonomyscotland.org
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk
link to theorkneynews.scot
England’s NHS / link to skwawkbox.org
link to futurism.com
Government internal communications indicate Theresa May is due to capitulate to the hard-right and take Britain out of the EU with no deal, securing the worst case outcome shown in the government’s own impact assessments.
link to byline.com
As Britain Stumbles Over Brexit, Support Grows for 2nd Vote
link to archive.is
link to forbes.com
link to theneweuropean.co.uk
link to opendemocracy.net
link to ucl.ac.uk
link to paulbigland.blog
Theresa May faces revolt of leading Tory donors
link to archive.is
Falkland Islands is to have full access to EU trade.
Graf Midgehunter at 2.17
The real reason we didn’t win in 2014 was that not enough Scots voted YES.
Can we stop the blame game.
And your 28 sources for making that claim
In the EU only Ireland, Cyprus, Denmark, and Malta disenfranchise their citizens who are resident outside their national country, and Ireland has a referendum on March to enable voting for the presidency. Citizenship is derived through a mixture of jus sanguis, and naturalization. Independence should be about normalization. Normal countries define citizenship through parentage, and long term residency coupled with economic contribution to the society, not “state of mind”.
@Dave McEwan Hill 8.46
That comment should be plastered on every wall, banner and car!
Our case in 2014 was not strong enough to convince enough waverers. We have to do better and it won’t be achieved by alienating folk who might otherwise be persuaded.
We need to stop the nightingale and concentrate on the good folk who are prepared to listen an back their own and their kids’ futures.
The real reason we didn’t win in 2014 was that not enough Scots voted YES.
I agree with that statement. I also feel that there is an element within the independence movement that is overly sensitive to accusations of racism and anti-Englishness to the point where what is taken without granted in any other country is treated as a sign of blood and soil lunacy.
Graeme says:
11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.
Ex-pat voters:
Somewhere I have a screen shot from the Saudi gazette online poll in 2014 showing 76% in favour of independance, so who knows. Maybe the majority of ex-pats would rather see an independant Scotland.
Good morning Kangaroo,
or is that good evening?
4 inches of snow here, btw.
What’s your weather?
mogabi @ 0700
Well they certainly don’t commute .. and I doubt they pay income tax in Scotland either
Impact Assessment on Scotland nothing to see here by Scottish press and broadcasters move on.
BBC Politics Show still banging on about Police Scotland at 11.45 while Radio Scotland press review mentioned Kezia Dugdale’s critique of Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit stance in Sunday Herald
link to heraldscotland.com
they failed to discuss Labour’s Brexit shambles and went on about equal march in Glasgow and implications for Glasgow without mentioning it was caused by previous Labour administration.
Nana says:
An interesting one. We’ve been hearing same rumour online for a few days. But what I find most interesting is the msm are not reporting anything like this.
Either, it’s just not true, or the msm are purposely collectively avoiding it.
If it turns out to be true (and I think it is) then we have witnessed msm behaviour which should be worrying everyone!
Seems voter eligibility has taken over , well instead of moaning or bickering about it endlessly make your opinion known.
The link was posted yesterday by twathater , the link is to the Scottish government survey on electoral reform consultation .
A word of warning this is not a two minute questionnaire and some of the questions are well pretty vague , if I remember rightly there are 7 sections with a indicator of questions answered on the left of each section, e.g. Out of 6 questions 4-5-or all 6 answered you will soon realise however you try to complete every answer this doesn’t add up , a bit more work is needed I believe ,
Despite the bugs it is a way of registering your opinion not perfect but it might just influence those who could make changes .
@Kangaroo
Scotland`s greatest gift to Australia,
link to youtube.com
Getting independence could be the easy bit. Changing the consciousness and mind-set of our citizens to handle the new order may not be so easy. 300 + years of a self-harming very bad habit may need strong psychological initiatives. The lure of old habits and addictions to the way it used to be will be exploited by the shady dealers in ‘Brits’, the dependency drug that takes the existential discomforts of self-reliance away, for a fat fee.
When we break with the old order, the break must be clean not complex.
Imperialist history indicates we must be on our guard when treating this particular subject.
O/T dont know if this has been posted before, the real reason the Tories want a hard brexit. Never minds hundreds of thousand of job losses in the UK , lets keep our chums sweet.
link to thejist.co.uk
Galam
Having for years predicted her annointed status as queen of the cabal of evil as based on the many political errors she inexplicably survived, long before becoming Tory leader, I have always considered May’s ‘remain’ stance to be entirely fake and merely a propaganda ruse.
Chick, totally agree.
Three near certainties-
1. Theresa May was never a remainer.
2. Brexit will be of the hardest kind.
3. Jacob Rees-Mogg will be the next PM.
If this comes to pass the uk economy will lose majority of its tax income.
link to linkedin.com
Unlike Scotland, UK (Englands) economy is dependant upon services of that a large portion is financial services.
link to ft.com
The banking sector alone gave tax of £24 billion in 2015-16 tax year.
link to researchbriefings.parliament.uk
Leaving the uk is essential for the economic status quo in Scotland.
The brexit mess will wreck the uk economy, destroying its tax base. we have a life raft and need to deploy it before March 29th 2019.
I remember many years ago the great oil billionaire hunt sitting in the kremlin talking to Mr Breznev the soviet leader at that time.
Which goes to prove that whatever governments do or say, business allways carries on as usual.
Mr Hunt did not care about the politics of everything, he like the american president now was more interested in taking care of business.
After brexit, whatever anyone says, business will just carry on as usual, cause every business person knows, the markets do not belong to anybody, the markets are there to be traded whether its forex or selling cars, its just business
Wonder why Colin Alexander or Colin Alexander or COLIN ALEXANDER hasn’t been on to comment?? Must be on leave.
Chick McGregor says:
Her behaviour during the 2017 GE was nothing short of astonishing. She appeared not to be even trying. Yet, there she still is.
@ Scott Finlayson 10.42am
That AC/DC video is a keeper.
I´m fed up explaining to people the they were Scottish.
Stravaiger says:
… which will give rise to a fourth near certainty 😉
‘Brexit of the hardest kind’ and ‘Jacob Rees-Mogg as PM’ would a dream ticket for IndyRef2.
James Caithness @ 11.47
No Captain Colin Alexander on this forum, no Governor General Mundell in the MSM. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion ?
ScotsRenewables says:
11 February, 2018 at 9:49 am
Graeme says:
11 February, 2018 at 7:23 am
It’s maybe worth remembering that if the franchise in 2014 was limited to those resident and born in Scotland, we’d be independent by now.
“Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.”
I’m not suggesting we give a vote to expats and I’m not trying to blame anyone But I find it a a bit strange that we give a vote to the very people we’re trying to break away from ie non Scot UK nationals.
I think it can fairly be argued that these people uniquely of all other nationalities have a vested interest in Scotland remaining in the union that is not based in the best interests of Scotland or it’s people.
I accept there is nothing we can do about it and we have to go along with it but that doesn’t make it right or fair.
If I moved to any other part of the world I would still consider myself a Scotsman first and foremost and if asked to vote for something I thought was a good thing for my adopted country but detrimental to Scotland I would choose the latter without question.
Would that be fair to my adopted country and it’s people
Shuan
Agree, England’s resource to population ratio is dire. It falls short on all sectors, food and drink, energy, timber, it is very far from a position of security.
The worst security position in the World for a large non-satellite economy.
And, instead of filling that resource security gap by generating a manufacturing based trade surplus, i.e. something which at least could survive a significant degree of World turmoil, it has put all its eggs in the financial services basket, many of which are rotten. Money laundering, tax evasion, interest manipulation, Ponzi scams. And all of which could and almost certainly will, disappear like snaw aff a dyke.
The consequences of post hard brexit does not bear thinking about.
A campaign must seek the open support of a majority of European Countrys, and while we are at it, the support worldwide of ex Colonies. Would they want to trade with a country who have used dirty tricks to prevent Independence for the Scottish People?
Another thought. Mhairi Black must have a strong part in the campaign as a strong speaker, with the ear of the young voters and urge them to seek the support of their Grand PaRents.
Something to remember about Indy, Brexit, and voters….
The UK result in EuRef was 52% to leave the union in question.
It would have been more like 45% if it had been run on a wide IndyRef1 type franchise.
The result in IndyRef1 was 45% to leave the union in question.
It would have been more like 52% if it had been run on a narrow EURef type franchise.
The more I think about referendums, the more I am inclined to say that ALL decisions should be taken by elected representatives in a PR elected parliament based on manifesto commitments.
Get the electoral role right and police it robustly. Tighten up postal voting. Then let normal parliamentary process decide all issues. That is rapidly becoming my position!
@ Scott Finlayson
O/T………….
Robert Graham @ 10:25,
(It was me actually, and several times since the start of the year, but I’m nae proud.)
Just go and do it, folks, if you care.
My own view is that there is a fundamental principle that applies besides reverse “no taxation without representation” (In fact that weel-kent slogan is just one specific corollary of it.)
It’s the well-understood principle that you must be subject to the consequences of the votes that you cast. For fairly obvious reasons.
This essentially translates into residence (with some obvious exceptions) and taxation.
It doesn’t mean that you’re not Scottish if you happen to currently live in the diaspora. Of course not. So very many have left, which is a large part of our problem. But you can contribute to our cause in important other ways, like influencing people in your own country to what’s actually happpening here, and also by funding.
And of both there is a great need.
@Dave McEwan Hill:
Graf Midgehunter wasn’t doing the blame game, he was effectively saying can we stop the blame game.
@Liz Rannoch
She didn’t do too badly though, at least they thought she was RN material! And she got to try to relocate the Britannia Royal Naval College to Glasogow, quite right too.
Yes, some (many) of the defence posters hate the SNP, but most of them hate all politicians who don’t set a defence budget of 10% of GDP, build about 200 warships, 20 submarines, have 200,000 soldiers, and about 1,000 fighter jets and bombers. In fact, basically everyone in the UK should be in the forces I guess.
Having been in Australia a few times I can assure you the ex-pat Scots think we are doing fine and wonder why we want to break away, the longer they have been away from Scotland the more British they become. Forget about ex=pats vote, they have left Scotland and are in no hurry to come home and don’t believe change would be a good thing.
Lenny Hartley @ 11:09,
I’m with you on this one, Lenny.
There’s a lot of poor suckers in the UK, including alas too many in Scotland, who have been fooled into believing that “take back control” is somehow going to happen for them.
Nope, nope, nope.
It’s going to happen for Jacob Rees-Mogg and his pals. Rich tax-avoiders and vulture capitalists who are positively lusting to buy up all the Brexit crashed assets cheap.
Yet we still get people like our now-resident Iago whispering that the EU is a “rich man’s club”.
Powers returning to Scotland: Herald Story from yesterday:
link to scotgoespop.blogspot.de
PS:
Paul Sweeney (‘Scottish’ Labour)MP joins woman in protesting for equal pay in Glasgow!
What’s he like eh? 🙁
Extending the right to vote in Indyref2 to ex-pat Scots would be a disaster for the Independence Campaign.
For those in England apart from the well known tendency when abroad to Go Native one must remember that if they don’t subscribe to The National, SH or read sites like WoS they are wholly dependent on the metropolitan broadcast and print media for any information regarding Scottish Politics and we all know what sort of ‘Information’ thais.
For those living elsewhere abroad the situation will be similar although probably a bit more favourable towards Indpendence but still likely to be predominantly anti.
Robert J. Sutherland says:
“It doesn’t mean that you’re not Scottish if you happen to currently live in the diaspora. Of course not. So very many have left, which is a large part of our problem. But you can contribute to our cause in important other ways, like influencing people in your own country to what’s actually happpening here, and also by funding.
And of both there is a great need.”
—- —– —– —–
That’s exactly how I contribute to both your suggestions.
Cash to various causes like WOS, WGD, books etc. Am an SNP member – group EUROPE – but I never know where the monthly meetings are, Copenhagen, Berlin, Lyon, Milan..! 😉
Writing mails to various publications or TV debates.
In 2014 it was folk asking me why Scotland wants to “break away” from England (sigh..). Now I just ask them, you’ve seen the chaotic Brexit malarky from London which is driving the EU and Barnier bonkers – can you now understand why we want to be away from the clutches of London and be independent again..??
100% conversion rate. 🙂
@ScotsRenewables says: 11 February, 2018 at 9:49 am:
“Aye, and if the franchise had been extended to expat Scots the defeat for YES would undoubtedly have been a lot larger.
The franchise is what it is, we need to put our efforts into something more productive than looking for someone to blame.”
Hey! Firstly. I’m not the one making wild guesses of how things would have gone if only …
In the second place I’m the one defending those the guessers would blame for the defeat of the YES referendum.
The truth being that there is only one lot to blame for the defeat of the YES to independence movement.
These are the liars, prevaricators and bullies who are the long term oppressors of everything and anything that is Scottish. a.k.a. the Westminster Establishment – also known the wide World over as PERFIDIOUS ALBION. .
By which terms I do not class the normally decent. and much like ourselves, people of the three country Kingdom of England. It is reserved exclusively for the Westminster Establishment and that extends a damned sight further than just the Palace of Westminster, the financial sector and Buck House.
TheWasp says:
11 February, 2018 at 11:58 am
James Caithness @ 11.47
No Captain Colin Alexander on this forum, no Governor General Mundell in the MSM. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion ?
Fluffie’s apparently the spaceman driving that Tesla car what they fired into to space last week.
This is Major Fluffie to ground controoooool, I’m feeling very toryboy, I’m wishing they’d sent Colonel Ruth asweeeeeeeell, because the Colonel’s an even bigger tory chancer than meeeeeee, at least we can still receive all the amazing BBC SNP out propaganda, in deep toryboy spaaaaaaaace…
Bowie lyrics write themselves:D
Well spotted- call me Dave- The brass necked labour MP joining a protest for equal pay in Glasgow
He only has to look at the City Chambers and the previous administration who used to inhabit the place, for any answers on that little embarrassment , a labour controlled council who spent millions yes millions of pounds in legal services fighting the very people he now joins in protest ,
I was going to say you couldn’t make it up , but honestly ,Dont the people who are protesting not realise it was this arsewipe of an MPs party that is the root of their problem .
The money wasted could have given every one of them enough to retire on , I wonder if the wasted money could be recovered from these idiots who wasted it , maybe as the pension fund accrued by the city council and believed to be one of the largest in Britain not just Scotland but Britain , perhaps they should shoulder some of the cost , after all it’s the broad shoulders and shared responsibility that makes the Union great eh .
Every time a bell rings another Yesser gets their Wings over Scotland Badge.
Has not someone somewhere said something like that somewhere before?
Now I wonder who and where that was?
Graeme says:
11 February, 2018 at 11:59 am
I think it can fairly be argued that these people uniquely of all other nationalities have a vested interest in Scotland remaining in the union that is not based in the best interests of Scotland or it’s people.
I disagree. Those who have been born here have no choice, those who choose to make Scotland their home are making a positive statement. I don’t understand why they then automatically have a vested interest in maintaining the Union.
They have already made one leap of faith by moving, now we need them to make one more.
“Every time a bell rings another Yesser gets their Wings over Scotland Badge.
Now I wonder who and where that was?”
To keep the Scots and bells theme running:
link to youtube.com
🙂 🙂
Radio shortbread had a wee discussion on Scotland and the space industry this morning. Good to hear what we all knew on Wings.
Prestwick, rocket launches and satellite manufacture all going along nicely. Chuckled to myself as I expected the presenter to nip the enthusiasm expressed in the bud.
Westminster will get around to poking a spanner in the works soon enough. 🙁
PS: We all know but for those that wonder.
Bells and Angels wings. Have had the coloured rendered dvd version for a long time now. Go back to it often.
The George Bailey child – Zuzu
Karolyn Grimes.
Alas she had a hard time after her role in ‘It’s a wonderful life’
Noticed our brass necked Labour MP in George Square’s T shirt did not display any Labour Party logo’s
@Liz Rannoch – OT – Defence
Looking around defence forums, particularly the one, because of the constant threat to cut the defence budget, warships etc., there are people who want to cut the International Aid budget and spend it on defence instead. And who pops out of the woodwork with the same desire? Rees-Mogg, the arch-Brexiteer.
But Aid is soft power, and with Brexit the UK is going to need that more than before, something Rees-Mogg as a likely future PM should know. So that could be an additional effect of Brexit for all of us, loss of that soft power and a resultant cut to GDP.
There is an answer to this though, and that’s to “charge” the international aid budget for aid-related use of defence assets. For example Invincible was used in the Philipines, and Ocean and RFA Mounts Bay in the Caribbean. And if this was built in, literally, to assets, there could be a shared use of budget from the beginning. The QE carriers for instance produce 100,000 litres of fresh water each by reverse osmosis from seawater.
The significance for us when Independent is to thing laterally from the very beginning, and as part of the target of 0.7% or 1% of GDP for International Aid, spend part with the defence budget in the design phase, so we get better defence, and can better take part in humanitarian missions, true value for money.
everyone of us who objects to Paul Sweeney turning up at the Rally yesterday should e-mail him and let him know how we feel about him and labour. Paul.sweeney.mp@parliament.uk Labour must think we all button up the back – they have no scruples or moral code left and in no way represent any one of us.
It is the impact of their past deeds that are going to haunt them and until every last penny of PFI interest is paid off and labour have apologised for their selling Scotland down the river they should be in hiding with shame.Even their great messiah JC has left his scruples behind at the first test Trident and no party whip as for Brexit he has no idea and would be happy to follow the tories over the cliff.
re voters right for our next vote for independence.
Criteria will have to be as before- There is a precedent after all but I do think that at a local level we need to get even more folk voting that still didn’t bother 4 years ago. Thankfully many younger folk who were on 12-13 at the time will vote for independence as they don’t have the fears and gripes of many of their great/grand parents.
The universities who actively encouraged their student population from England Wales and NI to vote NO should be prohibited as the majority had no intention to stay in Scotland.