stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


From the archives #6

Posted on February 12, 2018 by

Just the one time, though, apparently.

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    1. 12 02 18 17:56

      From the archives #6 | speymouth

    192 to “From the archives #6”

    1. Macart says:

      Even back then… the ‘slippery slope’ to independence. You ever wonder if they stood back from their writing at some point and thought ‘that’s maybe not going to come out too well’?

      TBF there has been a slippery slope in all sorts of ways. Simply not the one they imagined.

    2. Oscar Taime says:

      “a joint SNP, Labour and Liberal Democrat campaign for a Yes vote”….

      If only… if only!!!

    3. Proud Cybernat says:

      So let’s just have a vote in Holyrood on independence. If Holyrood indy majority is then backed with a WM Scot MP majority, then Scotland dissolves the Union.

    4. galamcennalath says:

      Yes, the SNP only signed up on condition that Holyrood would have the power to do something useful ie achieve independence sooner or later. That is the aspect the Tories desperately want to undo.

    5. Hamish100 says:

      The Tories state that the snp and labour were doing secret deals. Surely it was the Tories libdems and labour.
      Tories lying again. Who would have thought it.

    6. Ali says:

      Identifying it as a “slippery slopeis basically a recognition that being in the Union was not what Scotland would ultimately want if it had an informed choice. Since then the battle’s been all about preventing Scotland becoming informed.

    7. Oscar Taime says:

      @Proud Cybernat

      at first I would have said yes we already have both so we’re good to go

      then I thought ah but Catalunya

      then, finally, I figured but Spain is still an EU member whereas the UK… not so much si we’re all the way back to “good to go” WITH EU support just as soon as we hit that cliff edge 🙂

    8. Aye and their still at it putting down Scotland while we appear to stand by and do nothing so evil is allowed to succeed it puts me in mind of Culloden where the British cannons were hammering the clans,while they stood waiting for the order to charge but none came so some brave souls took on theirselves to charge alright it did not succeed but at least they tried God bless them all

    9. yesindyref2 says:

      It goes to show the sneakiness of unionistsi in those days, that the Devolution Referendum was in 1997, but the Scotland Act wasn’t finally put together till 1998, a year later.

    10. Clootie says:

      I’m fed up waiting…I know that every day we delay it the more damage is being done.
      The Imperialist love kicking issues into the long grass as it gives them time to build another line of defence.

    11. yesindyref2 says:

      1997 Devolution Referendum result: YES 74.6%, NO 25.4%. BUT for tax-varying powers: YES 64.0%, NO 36.0%. And curiously that 64% has been the sum of Indy + more powers (devo-max) since the devolution referendum, in most polls and social attitude surveys (Scotcen).

      That means to me that perhaps people didn’t really know the details of those “tax-varying” powers, and expected more at the time, and perhaps felt cheated when they found it was just 1p in the £ on top of income tax – not REAL tax-varying powers.

      There’s some support for that idea of voter ignorance looking at the 1979 Devo Ref, where there were a lot of activists for NO who wanted devolution but were convinced that the proposed Bill “Wasn’t a good deal”. To be blunt I knew absolutely no details of the Bill other than it was for Devolution, a step forward, something that could be worked on, improved, and ultimately end up with Independence, so I campaigned for a YES vote then, arguing with those who thought it was a bad deal, what I’d say was “Take what you can, and improve on it”.

      And the thing is that Devolution should never have been set in stone as a one-off settlement, it should have evolved every 2 or 3 years, a little power here, a tweak there. That didn’t happen until the SNP minority Government in 2007 scared the pants off the unionists and they came up with – Calman – which in itself got watered down into the Scotland 2012 Act – same as Smith did in the 2016 one.

      Scotland has a history of having been cheated by the very parties who want to keep Scotland in the Union, and the curious thing is that the more they do that, the more the support for Independence rises. Us Scots ain’t stupid.

      So basically Unionists are suffering the just fate of their own cowardice in not having given devolved Scotland more, much more, like FFA.

    12. Hamish100 says:

      Clootie

      We are all fed up waiting but then we need to win this time so timing is everything and those proposing Indy now ( for good or ill reasons) will lose.

      Let the Tories continue with their mis-management. It will be clearer in due course should Scotland hang on to the coat tails of an increasingly right wing racist group in England and NI or we control our own destiny?

    13. yesindyref2 says:

      Sorry, I think it was up to 3p on top, not 1p. Derisory powers anyway, kind of like giving Holyrood some chewing gum and duck tape to repair the economy. Bar stewards.

    14. Robert Graham says:

      o/t A different approach being adopted by Unionist nutters , on The Wee Ginger Dug this time , some nutjob trying to spread his particular brand of pish , instead of the method used by our resident halfwits this clown has chosen to directly attack him , aye that will work seen it Been there tee shirt etc .

    15. yesindyref2 says:

      @Hamish100: “but then we need to win this time so timing is everything

      I agree with “timing is everything” which is why we have to wait until the terms of Brexit are clear. I.e. autumn this year at a push, but more likely spring of 2019.

      The possible 1 year 9 month transition period might change the timing, as long as it’s sure Scotland can take advantage of an extension to that 1 3/4 year UK transition for a period of our own while we decide (another Ref) EU / EFTA+EEA / nothing.

      I don’t agree at all with “we need to win this time” – we can never be sure, even if the opinion polls showed 75% YES, that could change. Just as the current 47-49% YES can change with an actual campaign.

      And if we lose this one, then there will be another one. And another one. And another one ad infinitum.

    16. Bob Mack says:

      Jeez Rev, that was some years ago. These days Labour can outline a policy at two o’clock and have changed it again at four o’clock. Yes, the same day.
      Promises are meaningless in politics. We have learned that much already. I have also learned that being independent will not be as difficult as some would have you believe.

      There are many against us, be we will come through. Sit and watch as the Union disintegrates before our very eyes.

      What would assure independence is if the Scottish government only had some way to stop Brexit in its tracks. The English public would demand we go our separate ways. We are very very close.

    17. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Ok, let’s say I’m a diehard Unionist (which I’m not, but bear with me just for the sake of the argument). I feel that the Union has been a win-win in the past but it needs refreshing somewhat now (“now” being 1997). I can see that the Scots are ready and willing to make the change that was sneakily denied them in 1979.

      I’m secure in my beliefs, so I don’t buy this craven “slippery slope” argument. I look around the world and see plenty of examples of federal constitutions to draw inspiration from, many of which were in fact drafted by British constitutional lawyers.

      Consequently I re-cast the constitution of the whole UK to give Scotland its fair due, oh, and England+ its fair due also (even though the English don’t especially care, because they’re quite content with the status quo).

      Future-proof the UK for the coming century against whatever stresses it will inevitably encounter in entering a new millennium. Sell it to people as a fresh start.

      That’s how I do it if I’m confident in my beliefs and have the whole UK behind me with a large majority. I inspire confidence in Scotland and Scotland reciprocates. With full powers to exercise right from the get-go, Holyrood is fully occupied with evolving them, and the SNP dwindles to a small rump separatist hard core. The Union is refreshed and remains vigorous, and the economic situation re the various parts of the Federation is clear for all to see and appreciate.

      What I don’t do is create a “glorified parish council” with just enough power to temporarily mollify the restless natives, and gloss it over with a pinched glib “devolution is a process, not an event” slogan, while keeping all real power back in London to override everything whenever the going gets a little sticky.

      That’s what you do when you’re not confident in the Union, and not confident in your beliefs. That’s how the slippery slope really begins. And how it will inevitably escalate as reality begins to sink in all round.

      The Union is doomed because its own adherents don’t believe in it themselves. That’s why they have to lie and dissimulate. They’re so much in denial that they’re probably even fooling themselves.

    18. Dr Jim says:

      Unionists offered the VOW which in my opinion was illegal interference in the 2014 referendum because it wasn’t on the ballot paper, then the Unionists gave themselves a vote on the Smith commission in order to vote against the VOW they offered

      Which they did

      Now I know there are plenty of Unionists who thought that was a lovely idea to grant themselves voting rights to something (The VOW) that was offered to Scotland in the wake of a referendum which they knew they were going to lose *Because they wouldn’t have offered it otherwise*

      But for the rest of us normal folk with fairly normal brains we should be shouting at the tops of our voices *We were winning they crapped it offered us sweeties then told us they’d decide what kind of sweeties we could get after we agreed to their garbage then SOLD us lemons*

      It’s no wonder Unionists treat Scots like thick Yokels when we keep telling them that’s we are

      Oh and By the way Sinn Fein want a reunification of Ireland vote in this parliament, the Irish have actually learned what the British are

      Just thought I’d pop that in there

    19. David Mills says:

      Let’s just wait long enough the the cliff edge is clearly visible to all but the most willfully blind and hardcore UKIP lemmings (the ones that cry “let’s go”, 90’s pop culture reference there)

    20. Arbroath1320 says:

      Nice to see that Michael Ancrum Opposition Constitutional Affairs spokesperson, like all Tories back then,as in today, was unable to distinguish between the country of United Kingdom and the island of Britain, or British Isles if you prefer. 😀

    21. gus1940 says:

      What chance is there of Reporting SNPbad leading with the news that The SNP Government will pay for the recovery of the 2 lost Tarbert fishermen?

    22. velofello says:

      An interesting post Robert J Sutherland, “The union may be doomed because it’s own adherents don’t believe in it themselves”.I think perhaps too much of a generalisation.

      My view is that the top tier really wealthy Unionists don’t believe in anything other than wealth, and wherever the current capitalist system exists suits them just fine – Britain, Monaco, Barbados, or wherever.And then there was Africa, until the natives got restless.

      Then you have the house Unionists, five bedroom house,steady job, two cars, roast beef on Sunday brigade,and so yes they will cling loyally to the Union until Brexit puts their middle class existence in jeopardy.

      Finally you have the BBC Question Time audience. You might even get a “What Union?” from most of them if you asked about the UK’s make-up.I wager many believe Scotland is a region of England, and by whatever means this occurred doesn’t concern them, it just means that their England is bigger, greater they believe.

      The responses of these BBC QT audiences does not surprise me. I’ve had them work for me over the years.

    23. frogesque says:

      @gus1940

      Not top slot but it got a fair mention on STV 6.00 news

      Don’t know and don’t care about EBC.

    24. Welsh Sion says:

      “Ministers … are confident that, with more than three-quarters of Scots supporting unionist parties, there is little chance that a Scottish parliament, elected by proportional representation, would vote to go it alone.”

      Aye, right. They tried to fix it that:

      1) Devolution would kill (Scottish) nationalism stone dead
      2) There would be a Labour Government in perpetuity at Holyrood

      Didn’t quite work out like that, did it?

      And looking how far we’ve come from 25% supporting independence to today … despite everybody and everything, we’re still here. And then some!

    25. Welsh Sion says:

      Interesting times, velofello:

      Finally you have the BBC Question Time audience. You might even get a “What Union?” from most of them if you asked about the UK’s make-up. I wager many believe Scotland is a region of England, and by whatever means this occurred doesn’t concern them, it just means that their England is bigger, greater they believe.
      ______________

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/11/dan-jarvis-one-yorkshire-devolution-sheffield-mayor

    26. Paisley bud says:

      RJS at 5.30.
      I like your analysis, pretty spot on.

    27. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      Yeah, thanks be to eff for the unionists or we’d be effed!

    28. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      velofello @ 18:25,

      Of course in any country there will always be reactionaries who are doing very well out of the current system, and who will resist any change that might disadvantage them. They will always have a political party to represent their interests (which for convenience we can call the Tory Party). And they always manage to corral a bunch of gullible people to act against their own best interests, sorry to say.

      But the smart operators are the ones who can see that going along with changes that are almost certain to happen anyway is wise future -proofing. In that famous quote from Lampedusa’s The Leopard:

      “Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga com’è, bisogna che tutto cambi.”

      (If we want everything to remain the same, everything must change.)

      That’s what a statesman (or woman) does when in charge, as opposed to a mediocre politician. Unfortunately, the UK hasn’t had one of the former for a long, long time. Currently Scotland is far better served, thankfully.

    29. Legerwood says:

      gus1940 says:
      12 February, 2018 at 6:13 pm
      What chance is there of Reporting SNPbad leading with the news that The SNP Government will pay for the recovery of the 2 lost Tarbert fishermen?””
      ……..

      Probably none.

      Led with Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland promising that the next Labour Government, his, would fix Scotland’s economy.

      Pity he was spouting that the day news was released that he Scottish PMI, an indicator of business confidence, was at a 3 year high and businesses were hiring and generally feeling more positive about the economy.

      He also seems to have missed the news about Scotland’s thriving food and drink industry.

    30. Dr Jim says:

      With Sinn Fein demanding a reunification vote for Ireland (anybody noticed the news hushing that one up)
      and Brexit happening all we need is an announcement date for Indyref2 and the Unionists will have to fight battles on three fronts making it kinda obvious to undecideds they’re waiting for the wrong camp to make the wrong decisions

      Again

      This could be the opportunity

    31. Dan Huil says:

      @Dr Jim 7:21pm

      Exactly right. We must take full advantage of British nationalist incompetence.

    32. artyhetty says:

      Oh how things stay the same in Britnat land. Keep doing what you are doing British nationalists, and you will be free of having to subsidise Scotland sooner than you think. 🙂

      O/T

      Re, the fishing boat that the UKgov refuse to fund recovery of the poor men who have died, what an utter utter disgrace that thy won’t even fund this, it is a miniscule amount that they are wholly legally and morally responsible for. I remember when a fishing boat went down off the west coast, years ago, and hearing that sometimes it could be UKgov MOD subs that snag the nets, dragging the boats under before they have any chance at all. Horrific.

      The UKGov, and their BritNat MPs are a disgrace, no morals, no conscience and unethical. Sickening, truly sickening.

    33. Calum McKay says:

      All along labour and tories know devolution will fail one way or another.

      Their calculation is that the Scottish people believe devolution has not lived up to its promise due to Scotland’s inability to govern itslf rather than London retaining the powers that could really make a difference.

      Conversely SNP thinking has been to be given an inch, should lead to a mile and then independence.

      This is why London is so against devolving anything to Scotland, they fear it could be successful and boost peoples confidence.

      Union is built upon dependence, failure and lack of confidence!

    34. shiregirl says:

      …slow internet and now Wings Twitter is down.

      hmmm. What’s going on?….

    35. shiregirl says:

      …and it’s back 🙂

    36. Dan Huil says:

      Something on the side, Rev?

      http://wingsover.com/about/history

    37. heedtracker says:

      That, “first step on the road to the end of Britain” is rather perceptive of the self preservation toryboys.

      Wintour’s quite interesting in that him and his triumvirate of Graun tories like Sev Carell savaged the living shit out of indyref1 2 decades later and now act like their S_____d region no longer exists.

      Its one way of dealing with nascent democracies that threaten England’s power and wealth. Welcome to the plus ça change teamGB zone.

    38. frogesque says:

      Early daws for O/T but going to risk it.

      1000 folk could turn up for a peaceful demo at Pathetic Quay and no one would hear about it unless there was ‘manufactured’ violence.

      1000 road bridges over motorways and dual carriageways could be used to show Indy support locally all across Scotland.

      Millions would see us and we wouldn’t have to travel hundreds of miles!

      Just a thought.

    39. yesindyref2 says:

      @frogesque
      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15988116.Activists_plan_to__occupy__motorway_bridges_in_bid_to_raise_independence_awareness/?action=success#comments-feedback-anchor

      Comment by Dave Llewellyn of Bridges for Indy, and the one by Iain McGlade of YesM8, show they’re co-ordinating with police and councils, which is good stuff.

    40. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi frogesque.

      I don’t think it needs to be limited to the M8. On the same day, it could be done on EVERY major thoroughfare – the M8 from end to end, the M80, M9, A9, M90, A90, A92, M74, M77, A7, A68(?) and so on.

      Who’s gonna take on the mantle of co-ordination?

    41. Legerwood says:

      Bifarb is closing – breaking news in The Herald

    42. Mike d says:

      People say, the time is right, the time is not right (to vote for independence). We have to wait, we have to seize the moment etc.etc. convince the unconvinced. JC after all this time and with the evidence staring us in the face,austerity measures,sanctions on the poor and disabled, SNHS under extreme pressure people dying in hospital corridors in England ,zero hour contracts, state pension age being raised to 70,workers employment rights being threatened by brexit , All this in front of our eyes. If not now, When the fcuk will Scots ever be ready to stand on their own two feet and vote for independence .FFS Scotland grow a fcuking pair. And take your Destiny into your own hands.

    43. Hamish100 says:

      Mike d

      Not tomorrow or the day after or even next week. There is a process to deal with whether you or I like it or not.

      Let the tories make more mistakes, labour too. Let more doubts enter the minds of those uncertain of independence and they will begin to realise the brits nays have failed.
      I am sure the plans for the next independence referendum are in hand. Patience.

    44. Dan Huil says:

      I see Scotland, the north of Ireland and Wales are to be force-fed lectures on brexit devolution from someone called David Lidington MP [commander of the british empire] presumably because he voted Remain and that should calm the natives.

      We should be ready to tell this britnat brexit liar to piss off.

    45. frogesque says:

      I understand the need tae ca’ canny but there is a lot of frustration out there. A’buddy is champing at the bit.

      Re motorway etc. YES visibility. Again see the need to have authority clearance but there is a fairly regular one in Glenrothes over the A92. Always gets a good response and no traffic or pedestrian problems. Absolutely essential to clean up afterwards and no littering.

      Don’t give any cause for objection.

    46. Rock says:

      Hamish100,

      “Let more doubts enter the minds of those uncertain of independence and they will begin to realise the brits nays have failed.”

      They sure will.

      In 622 years’ time.

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

      Has Nicola managed to flog her dead horse yet – a separate deal for Scotland in the EU?

    47. galamcennalath says:

      BMG poll for The Independent found 26 per cent of people think the economy will grow stronger in the next five years as Britain leaves the EU.

      Which IMO proves that a quarter of UK voters are conclusively barking mad!

      It is extremely rare, post EURef, for anyone to publicly claim the economy will improve with Brexit, that’s never been what it’s about.

    48. heedtracker says:

      In 622 years’ time.

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

      Has Nicola managed to flog her dead horse yet – a separate deal for Scotland in the EU?

      Ultimately we have no real idea what’s going to happen in the next 6 UKOK months, let alone the next 600 England rules Scotland years to come, for Scots, under toryboy rule of Scotland.

      But no doubt 600 more years of beeb Scotland gimp rule/brainwashing, will make sure we like it like this, if we’ve not all been incinerated in the next great UKOK nuke wars to come, sorry, victorious Strong and Stable BetterTogether UK wars to come.

      http://uk.businessinsider.com/irish-government-worried-brexit-talks-could-collapse-over-the-border-issue-2018-2

    49. Meg merrilees says:

      Briandoonthetoon

      I agree why limit it to the M8; there are local YES groups and the Indy App – can’t they be brought into the whole picture.

      I’m not too far from M9 and there are certainly footpath bridges we can use if vehicular bridges are considered too dangerous.

    50. manandboy says:

      The Bridges – an idea whose time has come.

    51. Thepnr says:

      I like the bridges idea too.

      Same day all over Scotland from 07 till 09 and 16 till 18.

      That will be noticed.

    52. Dr Jim says:

      The Tories have offered Scotlands fishermen a new deal post Brexit
      One in every five fishermen are to be executed leaving the other four to catch as many fish as they want

      Pens in hand and gagging for it Scottish fishermen rushed to sign up shouting *last one’s a deidy*

      In other news today in a whistle stop tour of Penicuik Miners welfare Germy Corbyn challenged the SNP for not using the powers of the Scottish parliament that Labour voted AGAINST and PREVENTED Scotland having to bring to an end the suffering the Tories have inflicted on the poor which Germy Corbyn voted WITH the Tories FOR, but he did eat a pie and promised to come back and maybe eat another pie someday

      In a speech to a packed pub of his own supporters Germy promised to take credit for things he hadn’t done and factory jobs he didn’t save
      His supporters pushed their microphones and cameras into his face for more quotes but he was whisked away by some Labour party people on to his next venue which was the same place he was already in

    53. Still Positive says:

      The pnr @ 12.38 I agree’

      We have a footbridge over the A82 in Clydebank which would be ideal. Except Clydebank voted ‘Yes’ in 2014. Might get the Dumbarton people to notice it.

    54. mr thms says:

      Some interesting economic statistics in this link, showing Scotland and its cities doing well in a U.K. context. Note that in this statistic, it was only London and the South east of England that were above the ‘U.K. average’. So, something to bear in mind the next time you hear Scotland being compared to the ‘U.K. average’. For any comparison to make sense, Scotland should be excluded from the ‘U.K. average’.

      https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/labourproductivity/articles/regionalandsubregionalproductivityintheuk/february2018#results-for-nuts1-regions-and-countries

      “In Scotland, productivity in 2016 was marginally below the UK average, whilst in Wales and Northern Ireland, productivity was 17% below the UK average. The regions of the north and Midlands of England (North East, North West, Yorkshire and The Humber, East Midlands and West Midlands) had productivity levels between 7% to 15% below the UK average.”

    55. Graeme McAllan says:

      Proud Cybernat, I totally love your very “PC” type comments, after all, it’s only your name proving that you really are “Poltically Correct” – lang may yer lum reek, as my ancient ancestor Granny McFarlane used to say 😉

    56. yesindyref2 says:

      OT – defence
      An interesting article in UKDJ by a guest contributor from the Human Security Centre (a new one on me) about the GIUK and Baltic defence, in terms of the UK (and US) not doing a lot just now.

      https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/nato-needs-new-maritime-strategy-northern-flank/#comment-400072

      The GIUK gap will, of course, be renamed the GIS gap in 2021. And Scotland will have to join the back of the queue for joining NATO, it’ll take years and years. Yeah, right, GTF!

    57. scowley says:

      Can someone please explain to me the following.
      If the Queen of Scots is no the same thing as the Queen of England (and its not). And the declaration of Arbroath in essence states that the will of the Scottish people usurps that of the crown/government. How on earth did Brexit bill get signed (Royal ascent) against the will of the Scottish people.
      Time for a vote on Scottish monarchy.

    58. Nana says:

      Links

      https://www.snp.org/labour_s_backing_for_a_job_destroying_brexit_deal_is_unforgivable

      http://indyref2.scot/scottish-labour-mp-at-centre-of-racism-row-urged-to-consider-his-position

      Removing the Sharp Edges from Brexit: A Third Sector in Scotland Perspective
      https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-4981

      bbc-scotlands-shameless-attempt-to-scare-with-claim-that-scottish-hospital-has-cladding-similar-to-that-of-grenfell/
      http://archive.is/bktdM

    59. starlaw says:

      Oh well we can always refuel visiting Russian aircraft while we wait.
      Will probably speed things up a bit.

    60. Macart says:

      Here another Nana.

      A good piece by Fintan O’Toole in the Irish Times.

      https://archive.is/gbecu

      Right! Coffee time. 🙂

    61. sensibledave says:

      velofello sat 6:25 pm

      You wrote “Finally you have the BBC Question Time audience. You might even get a “What Union?” from most of them if you asked about the UK’s make-up.I wager many believe Scotland is a region of England, and by whatever means this occurred doesn’t concern them, it just means that their England is bigger, greater they believe.

      The responses of these BBC QT audiences does not surprise me. I’ve had them work for me over the years”

      … typical racial stereotyping of 50 odd million people from you vellofello. What is it about Scottish Independence supporters that makes them believe that their 1.5 million, are so “superior” to everyone else in the UK?

      Do you really believe that morals, ethics, compassion and empathy are reserved traits of indy supporters? Do you?

      Most people in England believe that SCottish voters were offered the opportunity to vote to leave the UK and for SCotland to have independence. Those voters decided, by majority, that they didn’t want that. As a result, people in SCotland, just like everyone else in the UK, are ultimately governed by the Westminster Parliament. A voter in SCotland has the same powers as me (well more actually) as an Englishman living in the South East of England.

      You victimhood is only surpassed by your ignorance.

    62. Nana says:

      Good morning Macart,

      Cheers I missed that one. Here’s another I missed earlier

      http://indyref2.scot/reporting-scotland-editor-denies-demoting-brexit-stories

    63. Iain McGlade says:

      Thanks for all the mentions. We’ve got no objections to opening up YesM8 to all major thoroughfares. Visibility is great. The one thing I would say is that co-ordinating YesM8 is a big enough job without us taking on the whole of Scotland’s road network. If you want to expand on it, you’ll have our support and any advice we can give, but we’re stretched enough with the M8.
      Good luck and feel free to get in touch on Facebook or Twitter. We’re not hard to find and we’ll respond quickly.

    64. Bill McLean says:

      And your arrogance is only surpassed by dishonest avoidance of any of the promises made to people here to stay in this foul, corrupt union! Very few people that contribute to this site have feelings of “superiority” and your ignorant attempt to pursue a racist agenda is childish in the extreme. You would not have to ask many people outside these islands who the most arrogant, nationalist and self-obsessed people in Europe are! I don’t postulate that I agree with it all but it is a view held by many. We here are concerned with the future of our country away from the stultifying, paralyzing obsession with class and a horrible imperialist past. If you have nothing positive to contribute, even as “an Englishman living in the southeast of ENgland” do remember your manners – if you can’t (and excuse my bluntness) push off! Ignorance and arrogance march hand in hand!

    65. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT but can anyone explain to me the plethora of Scots reporters in Korea as opposed to the two who were used for the Glasgow Commonwealth Games?

      Can anyone also explain the movie ‘Belle” where Scots were but barely mentioned when my understanding was that they were upfront and admirably ahead of the thinking of the time?

      Nana , I don’t thank you often enough for your efforts , so a BIG thank you!

      Macart , liked that article in the Irish Times – how I wish we had someone like that in the Scottish press.

    66. It’s just further evidence that you should never trust a British Nationalist at anytime.

      We need to persuade those who want devo max to take that one step more and vote from independence.

    67. Macart says:

      @Dorothy Devine

      Upon a time we did Dorothy. Ian Bell was a favourite of mine and his work is greatly missed. Especially these days. Maybe someday… we’ll see that kind of writer in the mainstream of an indy Scotland. In today’s climate though? I won’t be holding my breath.

    68. gus1940 says:

      This M8 Bridges Banner protest is a bad idea just asking for trouble from the Bad Guys.

      It would only take the slightest accident on the motorway whether or not due to the banners being a distraction for Uncle Tom Tractor Gordon and his media pals jumping on it with glee.

    69. Bob Mack says:

      @Sensible dave,

      I think it is very clear when one set of people tell another set of people. “NO, you cannot have a vote to decide on your freedom”, that there is a problem.

      Add to that the fect that a majority in England voted for isolationism, to remove themselves from European brotherhood because of immigrants and the need to “be in control”, whilst Scotland voted to maintain European connections it had for centuries before the Union, and you begin to see where the real problem lies.

      If you cannot see that, it must only be because you do not wish to face the truth.

    70. Nana says:

      @Dorothy 🙂

      Here’s one you might like. A reitach sounds like a fun time, but
      the blackening is a truly horrible experience.

      https://blog.historicenvironment.scot/2018/02/scottish-marriage-customs/

    71. Famous15 says:

      “Brexit is an authentic English Nationalist revolution” Irish Times.

    72. John H. says:

      Macart 8.37am.

      Good link Macart, but the author seems to think that Ireland is unique in suffering from English arrogance and ignorance. Doesn’t he realise that the whole world is seen as inferior to England by a certain type of English person such as Farage, Gove, and Johnson? The French are froggies, the Germans are krauts, and of course we are sweaties. I regard Gove as English.

      Until these people grow up and realise that the days of empire are over then England is going to continue to sink further into mediocrity. We must ensure that we aren’t dragged down with them.

      Roll on IndyRef 2.

    73. sensibledave says:

      Bill McLean says:
      13 February, 2018 at 9:10 am

      You wrote “Very few people that contribute to this site have feelings of “superiority” and your ignorant attempt to pursue a racist agenda is childish in the extreme.”

      Wrong. It is very a consistent theme.

      You wrote “You would not have to ask many people outside these islands who the most arrogant, nationalist and self-obsessed people in Europe are!”

      … Oooops! You just did it – you fool!

      On this occasion you have done it via a meme/straw man, however, the clear intent is to suggest that “europeans” (as a whole) think that the English (on the whole) are arrogant, nationalistic and self obsessed!

      What part of the term “racial stereotyping” do you not understand?

      If you believe that some commenters here on the Wings should be allowed to utter their xenophobic bile without others being allowed to challenge them, then I can see why you might defend them. I believe that the vast majority of folk in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are good and decent people. Many here on Wings don’t. They are quite happy to slag off and dismiss anyone and everyone that didnt vote indy – and, laughably, even though the vast majority didnt have a vote on the matter.

      Come back to me when you have grown a brain.

    74. Ken500 says:

      Gofund the Felbers. Russell and Ellen.

      Get the UK Home Office.

    75. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      Tariff-sabotage-free-market-extremists-hijack-brexit-trade-c
      http://archive.is/u6zR9

      ” Policy Exchange barely bothers to hide this bleak reality. “It would not necessarily be the end of the world if agriculture and manufacturing shrank further as a proportion of the economy,”

      That sums up the Brextremists perfectly. That is where they are coming from, or where they think they are taking us.

      “Thatcherism 2.0” the article describes it. Absolute sheer f’ing stupidity, more like it.

      What isn’t mentioned, is that regulations and standards will be dropped in parallel. No long will we be able to shop with a reasonable degree of certainty that what we buy is safe and fit for consumption!

      Where’s the lever for the ejector seat?

    76. Famou15 says:

      It is clear that the Psycheops Brigade realised that they failed with “Mr Nice Guy I really,really love you but shaft the SNP ,” and have now brought in the Major General to tell us how it’s gonna be.

      Cue sound of trumpets.”You lost in 2014,get over it”

      But,but Brexit changes everything! “Your not listening ,suck it up and shut up”

      “OK boss” Tugs forelock!

    77. dakk says:

      @sensibledave said ‘I believe that the vast majority of folk in Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are good and decent people’

      What part of racial stereotyping don’t you understand ?

      Does re electing a government which they knew committed war crimes and genocide in Iraq based on lies make them good and decent people?

      You British Nationalist warmongers have no self awareness.Really have a thing for yourselves.

    78. Robert Louis says:

      O/T,

      I must ask, in all seriousness, are the Scotgov/SNP really going to allow Scotland to be taken out of the EU against its will? Time is somewhat running out to call a referendum. Am I the only person to notice?

    79. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack 9.43

      You wrote “I think it is very clear when one set of people tell another set of people. “NO, you cannot have a vote to decide on your freedom”, that there is a problem.”

      Which “set of people” told what other “set of people” they can’t have a vote to decide their “freedom” (Braveheart again?)?

      Then you projected, using your incredible ESP talent …

      “Add to that the fect that a majority in England voted for isolationism, to remove themselves from European brotherhood because of immigrants and the need to “be in control”, whilst Scotland voted to maintain European connections it had for centuries before the Union, and you begin to see where the real problem lies.”

      Firstly, and as I have repeated often, I didnt vote to leave the EU. However, that is not the point.

      Your paragraph seeks to stereotype those who did in a particularly unflattering way loaded with a whole series of very negative traits – for which you have no evidence whatsoever and designed, once again, to stereotype a whole people in a negative fashion.

      You do it so often without being challenged that you don’t even know you are doing it.

      My belief is that you live your life by these stereotypes. Doubtless, you picture anyone that voted for Scotland to remain in the UK as a an ignorant, tattooed, Rangers supporter singing Jerusalem. Be honest. You do don’t you?

      You have to do that otherwise you are bereft of ideas. In doing so, you seek to argue, in effect, that 55% of Scots are thick louts.

      I am only surprised that more “normal” folke don’t come on here and hold a mirror up to you and show you up for what you are.

    80. Scotspine says:

      “An Englishman living in the south east of England”

      Comes on an Indy website to lecture us on our “victimhood”.

      From a Scotsman living in the North of Scotland, I dont care what you think. You may as well be living on Easter Island.

    81. Bob Mack says:

      Clearly Sensible dave does not read European news. Every paper in every a European country describes “England” in the very tones you decry as being racist and untrue.

      Sensible there are two views on every situation. You are one side only. Many many Europeans agree with Bill.

      No doubt they will be biased as well in your view.

    82. galamcennalath says:

      Nana says

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/james-today-jam-tomorrow.html

      I have to agree completely with James Kelly.

      Well I remember the last hustings for deputy. Then, I voted for the best candidate who was in my opinion Robertson. I was impressed by what the others said, policy wise, but that didn’t sway me.

      This time there is only one big issue – the intertwined Brexit IndyRef2 situation. I will make my mind up based on the candidates’ attitudes to that alone.

      I feel we are on the edge of success. We will never be given an opportunity quite as good. In fact, I also believe WM will conspire to ensure we never do get as good an opportunity ever again.

      The BritNats let their guard slip after 2014 by completely screwing up the aftermath of IndyRef1. The SNP surged and we have a mandate for IndyRef2 if the BritNats screw up further. All the indications are that is exactly what they are about to do.

      We have Indy support at 50:50 despite no YES campaigning and a great deal of NO activity. We have activists champing at the bit to give it their all.

      We need the starting gun fired at just the right moment and that looks like being fairly soon.

      Any swithering and we have lost, possibly forever.

    83. Bob Mack says:

      No Dave. I only envisage you as an ignorant tattooed Jerusalem singing type

    84. sensibledave says:

      All

      If you would like further evidence, Dakk just wrote this above:

      “You British Nationalist warmongers have no self awareness.Really have a thing for yourselves.”

      Would anyone care to tell me to whom he is referring?

      Its possible that I might be wrong, but I think he/she/it is inferring that everyone in the UK, other than SNP voters, are British Nationalist warmongers with no self awareness and that we have a thing for themselves.

      The clear implication being that only SNP voters are good and decent people.

      … which takes us back to my original comment about the SNP master race thing.

    85. Nana says:

      Latest by Kirsty Hughes & Tobias Lock

      Brexit: What is Going On?

      https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-5093

    86. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack 10.33

      Haha. Bob, you are beyond parody.

      If I understand you correctly, you seem to be claiming that the racial stereotyping is ok … because some racial stereotyping in some unidentified European newspapers agree with your personal racial stereotyping.

      … give it up Bob. You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

    87. Fairliered says:

      galamcennalath says:
      “This time there is only one big issue – the intertwined Brexit IndyRef2 situation. I will make my mind up based on the candidates’ attitudes to that alone.”
      Totally agree with you. That’s the question I will be asking at the hustings and will be the only thing that will decide who I vote for.

    88. Bob Mack says:

      Relax everybody. English Nationalism does not exist. Official.

      We imagined the whole thing. Yep everything we see and read from English posters on social media every day was a lie. We imagine we are told lies by the Unionist press. We imagine the Scottish government is being ignored. We imagined listening to our MP’s being ignored in Westminster.we imagined a right wing press in England driving the Brexit agenda. We imagined a young woman MP being killed by a right wing extremist. We imagined our budget is getting cut every year. We imagined new laws to restrict soil media, our main means of communication. We imagined 17 million English votes to cut us from Europe.

      We create difficulties in viewing Brexit as a disaster, rather than see there is no problem. It’s all in our heads and our heads are faulty according to Dave.

      Dave was not at George Sq. Dave has never had to listen to the racist bile spewed on our streets during the marching season,or during football matches. From who Dave? Have a guess. Yep, those who want England to remain the masters of Scotland.

      Stereotypes? No reality Dave boy.

      Even now, you with no horse in the Scottish independence debate, come here to advise us where we are going wrong.a little advice Dave. Butt out. Talk when you know what you are talking about ,otherwise shut the eff up.

      Walk in my shoes before claiming to know my problems bud.

    89. galamcennalath says:

      John H. says:

      Until these people grow up and realise that the days of empire are over then England is going to continue to sink further into mediocrity.

      Brexit is the result of an English delusion, a crisis of identity resulting from a failure to come to terms with the loss of empire and the end of its own exceptionalism, argues Cambridge University professor Nicholas Boyle

      This article makes a great deal of sense of the situation for me.

      I would say, that although he talks of England I think we can say many of sad fools in Scotland who subscribe to the ongoing viability of their legacy ‘Britain’ think in the same terms. Also, a sizeable minority in England have ‘grown up’ and see the world, Europe, and their place in it in realistic terms.

      http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/the-problem-with-the-english-england-doesn-t-want-to-be-just-another-member-of-a-team-1-4851882

    90. John H. says:

      Just to be clear. I can honestly say that one of my best friends is English, and a nicer lady you couldn’t meet. She is also a member of the SNP. 🙂

    91. mr thms says:

      #Dorothy Devine at 9:11 am

      “OT but can anyone explain to me the plethora of Scots reporters in Korea as opposed to the two who were used for the Glasgow Commonwealth Games?”

      39 of the 59 strong squad are Scots.

      I imagine there is more interest in the Winter Olympics in Scotland than the rest of the UK.

    92. Greannach says:

      2017
      – Michael Ancrum, Donald Findlay, Peter Fraser.
      – Who?

      2037
      – Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie, Richard Leonard.
      – Who?

    93. Abulhaq says:

      Such conceit, when Scotland becomes independent it will not be quitting the UK but de facto and de jure ending the state of the UK. Without Scotland there can be no United Kingdom and any attempt by the EWNI state government at Westminster to appropriate and retain and use the name, which given the current gung ho mood could well arise, should be vehemently opposed by any future sovereign Scottish government. The name must go into the historical archives therein to gather copious layers of dust.
      Any notion that the EWNI state is the UK continuing should likewise be challenged and contested.

    94. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack 11.02

      Bob, I note you vain attempt to get back on the front foot.

      Unless you are even more stupid than I thought, you should have understood that I have never sought to deny that different communities don’t have their loonies. You are one of the Indpendemce loonies but, fortunately, you are not an example of the typical Scot that voted for Independence.

      Most pro indy supporters, I believe, are “normal” folk that voted for Independence for very positive reasons – not because of some antipathy towards the rest of the UK.

      Does the EDL exist in England? Yes it does. How many peple think the way of the EDL in England. A relative handful of thugs and loonies. Probably about as many that think UDI (i.e. the oppression of the passive majority by an extremist minority) is the way forward for Scotland.

      Again, your attempts to stereotype type Englishness based upon the utterances of a small number of people that are motivated to to contribute extreme thoughts on Social Media platforms speaks volumes Bob.

      Are you really as thick as you appear to be Bob?

    95. sensibledave says:

      Abulhaq at 11:25 am

      You wrote “Such conceit, when Scotland becomes independent it will not be quitting the UK but de facto and de jure ending the state of the UK. Without Scotland there can be no United Kingdom and any attempt by the EWNI state government at Westminster to appropriate and retain and use the name, which given the current gung ho mood could well arise, should be vehemently opposed by any future sovereign Scottish government. The name must go into the historical archives therein to gather copious layers of dust. Any notion that the EWNI state is the UK continuing should likewise be challenged and contested.”

      … and, in a thrice, Abulhaq quickly moves on to the next ridiculous Meme.

      Not content with achieving Independence for Scotland, Abduhaq needs to kick some people on the way out! His antipathy requires that he interferes and makes life as difficult as possible for those still in a United Kingdom.

      Are there any Wingers on here that might like to comment/criticise any of the sentiments being displayed by some of the home crowd? Do Bob, Abulhaq and Dakk speak for you all?

    96. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      As a newspaper addict I have to say that the Daily Record is giving us a pretty fair shout at the moment. It was giving us a good and better coverage until that pathetic General Election campaign and result and it backed off but I’m sure it is watching political developments with interest again. Keep an eye on it.

      It is also the only Scottish tabloid that actually is full of current Scottish content and news.

    97. Bob Mack says:

      17 million EnglNders voted to leave Europe. Says it all Dave.

      Besides, I have absolutely no problem with English people like yourself hating me or any Scot. What surer way is there to independence? 17 million fools will want us gone if we can sabotage their Brexit.

      Anything else Dave?

    98. Watching Edinburgh lass, Elise Christie,doing the speed skating the butchers apron on her kit has the widest English cross yet.

      Didn`t know that Marks & Spencer Bank was run/owned by the corrupt HSBC.

    99. Greannach says:

      Bob Mack at 11:46

      That’s it in a nutshell, Bob.

    100. Fireproofjim says:

      Sensible Dave
      Abdulhaq is completely correct..
      The United Kingdom was legally formed by the Parliamentary Union of the Kingdoms of Scotland and England in 1707.
      England annexed Wales centuries earlier and Northern Ireland is a province.
      Should Scotland leave, the United Kingdom ceases to exist.
      You may not like it but those are the facts. Personally I don’t mind what they call the continuing state, but judging by the chauvinistic attitude of the Brexiteers, Little Britain may be appropriate.

    101. Meg merrilees says:

      Ken and Nana
      reposting.

      https://www.gofundme.com/fight-to-remain-in-the-uk

      this is the link to help the Ferbers stay in Scotland. Home Office wants to force them to leave. Please support them, they haven’t raised much yet and the clock is ticking.

    102. Dorothy Devine says:

      Nana, I remember a friend of mine told me that her soon to be husband a junior doctor , was dumped in a bath of gentian violet the night before his wedding – juvenile enjoyment all round!

      Macart , indeed I sadly miss Mr Bell too.

      Mr thms, thanks for that – I had no idea we were so heavily involved. However , it does not excuse the plethora of non Scots involved in the Glasgow Commonwealth Games commentary.

    103. mr thms says:

      #Abulhaq @ 11:25 am

      “Such conceit, when Scotland becomes independent it will not be quitting the UK but de facto and de jure ending the state of the UK.”

      It is looking very likely.

      Without a Scottish referendum there would be no Scotland Act 2016 giving Scotland some of the powers that need to be in place before the country becomes independent.

      Without a EU referendum there would be no Article 50 for the United Kingdom to bring about the end to all of its EU treaties, and for Scotland’s devolved powers for which the EU had responsibility to be returned.

      The results of those two referendums creates the best chance of a dissolution of the UK taking place during the ‘transition period’.

      I’ve read the EU wanted the UK’s ‘transition period’ to end at midnight 31st December 2020, and if that is the case then the two successor states of Scotland and England, could be free join or re-join EEA/EFTA/EU on the 1st January 2021.

    104. Bill not Ben says:

      I think we will find some extreme people in every political movement, the people who will say things like, all those people who voted no in the referendum are ("Tractor" - Ed)s, and all those that voted yes are idiots.
      These people should be ignored at all costs because they do not represent the majority of sensible people anywhere.
      In fact they actually don’t do their parties any favours, all they do is give ammunition to people who will say, you see what they are like, and you want to vote for people like that.
      Well, people like that are not the majority,so anyone that tries to make political gain from the silly people who do these things will find that sensible people will just ignore them and go and see what the side they oppose is offering.
      I will allways vote SNP as i am for independence, i will not make any excuses for being a total independence supporter, if anyone does not like it, tough, but don’t ever try to tell people like me about how great a union scotland is in, cause that would just be insulting our intelligence

    105. Famous15 says:

      Pass Sensible Dave the shoehorn .He is determined to undermine Scottish civic nationalism and defend United Empire Loyalist English Nationalism.

    106. Meg merrilees says:

      Nana @ 9.43

      I was on a driving holiday up the West coast one summer, a few years back. As i drove off the ferry at Mallaig, I noticed a blackening taking place. All you could see were feathers and black goo everywhere. Poor lad had been well and truly plastered with the stuff but all seemed to be enjoying it!!!

      I still chuckle to think of the scene and hoopoe the tradition is still going strong.

      I noticed a photo on the BBC website t’other day of a qualified Apprentice who was ‘graduating’ – looked much the same.

    107. Bobp says:

      Robert Louis 10.27am
      No Robert, i don’t think the Scots government will allow Scotland to be taken out of the eu against its will . But the people of Scotland, now there’s a different story.

    108. heedtracker says:

      Great links Nana!

      What is going or not going, on, is a worrying read.

      “The uncertainty and political in-fighting in the Conservative government, and its erratic negotiating approach, is damaging the UK’s international reputation – including almost wiping out any trust on the EU27 side. It is damaging for the economy, for business, for investment plans, for a whole range of individuals and organisations (from universities to hospitals to charities) that work with and across the EU. It is also undermining the UK’s political processes and systems.

      In the face of such extraordinary disarray on the part of the UK government, on issues that impact across the UK – creating the biggest systemic challenge in decades – the opposition Labour party is notably failing to hold the government to account. Its leader, Jeremy Corbyn, repeatedly chooses at Prime Minister’s questions not even to raise Brexit as an issue. Labour’s own deliberately ambiguous position underpins this democratic and political decay.

      The Westminster system is, for now, failing.”

      2014 Crash Gordon did promise Scots NO campers faster, safer, nicer change, in this farce union, with tory idiots like sensible Dave, calling all the shots for Scotland, from the south of England.

    109. Liz Rannoch says:

      Expanding the YesM8, or any other good idea. Is this not what the National Registry is supposed to be for?

    110. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack 11:46 am

      You wrote “17 million EnglNders voted to leave Europe. Says it all Dave.”

      …. You just can’t stop yourself spouting your b******t and revealing your very dark and perverted inner-self can you.

      Let me do this slowly and think out loud and write as I do. What does Bob mean by Enlanders? Does he think that everyone that voted Leave is an “Englander”? Is he using the term as “Englander” as a pajorative for anyone (Scots, welsh, norther Irish) that voted Leave? Does he think that Leave voters only lived in England and were English. Does Bob know that if all SCots had voted Remain that we would be Remaining and I, as a Remainer would have won the vote?

      Nah, Im over-thinking things. Bob is just a t**t

    111. carjamtic says:

      Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waives

      The Red/Blue Tories narrative of cutting off their noses to spite their faces is being framed as an act of ‘purity’,of ‘honour’, “we must defend ourselves from these hordes of marauding invaders, these aliens”.

      Except they have flipped the story, historically (currently) they were (are) the marauders, the pillagers, the robbers, the oppressors and more recently, the global whores, selling off everything that they can/could get their grubby little hands on, that wasn’t nailed down, to the highest bidder.

      There is no ‘honour’ to defend here and they are not the victims, it is simply a case of the ugly, old, tripod holding, worn out whore, moving downmarket to eke out the few last pennies, the last of the Filthy Lucre before the shit hits the fan and they cannot continue with their ermine collared crime spree without being found out.

      Ultimately these wailing, fake Brexit Martyrs, are really ugly on the inside and no amount of nasal alteration can ever mirror that ugliness (besides we know, they will retire to their gated communities, will hire the best taxidermists to re-fluff their peacock feathers, hire the best arse licker’s to assist them, don their ermine robes and resume their ugly, plastic lives as if nothing even happened) they don’t give a toss about anyone bar themselves, for they have no ‘real’ souls (self awareness, yes) and no ‘real’ pride in anything save perhaps their huge piles of dead presidents pictures.

      Fortunately in Scotland we are not beholding to them, yes they will argue they gave us indoor toilets and later the chance to buy that toilet, to ‘own’ it for ourselves and we should all remember that and be grateful.

      Are we grateful? Not a fucking chance, what we got in return was quite despicable, a selfish, ferocious, famishing, unprincipled set of hyenas, a body of men/women disunited among themselves, induced by the private jealousies and prejudices of their leaders, that in no way shape or form has been of any benefit to Scotland or it’s people.

      The boy stood on the burning deck
      Whence all but he had fled……(you know the rest)

      #Casabianca

    112. Bill not Ben says:

      The union of 1707 was and utter disgrace and a betrayal of the scottish nation, it was not legal as the people of scotland did not agree to it.
      A nation can only agree to change its status if every person in that nation votes to do so, otherwise its illegal and could never stand up to any kind of investigation .Alba Gu snooker loopy!

    113. jfngw says:

      @sensibledave

      Not sure what you are getting so excited about, people in England hardly ever refer to the country as the UK, they nearly always say England when talking about the UK. This has been the position for decades, watch any old movie about the war, they are defending England, not the UK. But if you want to call yourself the UK after separation I don’t really care.

      The only debating point is about the successor state, Scotland would not be leaving the UK, it would be ending the union.

    114. galamcennalath says:

      John H. says:

      I can honestly say that one of my best friends is English, and a nicer lady you couldn’t meet. She is also a member of the SNP.

      A lot of Scotland’s problems arise from being in Union with England. That’s not English folks’ fault, it’s ours for not getting our act together. Being anti Union in no way means anti English.

      We all have English friends and I have never been to an SNP event and not heard English accents.

      Collectively though, countries have general and widespread traits. In 2015 52% of English voters chose far right parties. I find that shocking. In 2014 55% of Scots voters chose to stay in the Union. I find that even more shocking!

      We in Scotland who believe in something better need to work hard to achieve it. In England, I think decent fair minded folk have their work cut out too!

    115. Bob Mack says:

      Ha ha ha Dave. You know I am right. Scotland foils Brexit and England’s population says “o.k. fair does” We would have a new party born from the ashes. The England for England Party.

      You know Farage on steroids. We win either way Dave.

      You are dim. Love me or hate me.I care not. I am only interested in winning, with your approval,or at your expense.
      I care not which. Have a good day Dave.

    116. Ronnie says:

      I see the er.. crowds greeting Prince Harry and fiance at Edinburgh Cadtle have all been issued with state approved flags to wave – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-43034104

    117. misteralz says:

      Early enough to go off topic yet? I was in Scotland for a Very knackering weekend and noticed that the Rosyth ferry signs up either side of the new bridge have had the grey paint that used to cover the Hillman Imp cleaned up. Does this mean what I think (and hope) it means? Not having to put up with the A1 to get ‘home’ would be worth it. Soooo, soooo worth it.

    118. Robert Graham says:

      ronnie – it’s amazing what people carry around with them just in case the opportunity arises , a bit like being prepared with a umbrella i suppose it’s always good to be prepared dont you think. .

    119. sensibledave says:

      Bob

      …. I don’t hate you Bob. I feel really sorry for you. You hang out in this echo chamber and come out with the rubbish you do and, because no one “corrects” you (because to do so would be considered treasonous by the loonies – and they would set about re-educating the poor soul that spoke the truth).

      So, you will carry on spouting your hate and bile – and I might pop up every now and again and hold a mirror up to your ridiculousness.

      Fortunately, I do not believe you speak for, or represent, the vast majority of pro indy supporters. The majority of those do not carry the hate that you do. They understand that it is up to the majority of Scottish voters to decide on these matters and they, like me, do not seek, to blame the “English” because of the result of the referendum.

      I don’t suppose it has ever crossed your mind that more Scots might be inclined to vote for independence – if people like you were not seen as the personification of an extremist, antipathetic mindset that they might empower?

    120. sensibledave says:

      Bill not Ben: 12:02 pm

      “I think we will find some extreme people in every political movement, the people who will say things like, all those people who voted no in the referendum are (“Tractor” – Ed)s, and all those that voted yes are idiots.
      These people should be ignored at all costs because they do not represent the majority of sensible people anywhere.
      In fact they actually don’t do their parties any favours, all they do is give ammunition to people who will say, you see what they are like, and you want to vote for people like that.
      Well, people like that are not the majority,so anyone that tries to make political gain from the silly people who do these things will find that sensible people will just ignore them and go and see what the side they oppose is offering.
      I will allways vote SNP as i am for independence, i will not make any excuses for being a total independence supporter, if anyone does not like it, tough, but don’t ever try to tell people like me about how great a union scotland is in, cause that would just be insulting our intelligence.

      … Bob? Do you see how its done Bob? Passion, logic, reason … its all there … except the antipathy to everyone else.

      I genuinely hope that Bill not Ben succeeds in his ambitions. I am a democrat. I want the majority to have their way. The difference between you Bob, and Bill not Ben, is that Bill not Ben will attract people to him. People will follow that sort of calling. People can believe in a positive future. You are an obstruction and embarrassment to the cause.

    121. Bob Mack says:

      Who cares Dave ? What I do know is that we have the option of voting for our own independence, or the option of having the “reasonable” English public demanding we separate because we are spoiling their party..

      Either way is good by me.

    122. heedtracker says:

      I don’t suppose it has ever crossed your mind that more Scots might be inclined to vote for independence – if people like you were not seen as the personification of an extremist, antipathetic mindset that they might empower?

      And does it ever cross your tory mind that more Scots might vote for this union with England, if a lot less of the English stopped voting tory sensible d?

      Voting tory is an act of deep immorality sensible dave, in many many ways too. Although you’re clearly never going to say out loud, I’m a morals free toryboy and I want you to vote for this UK union because… it might deflate the value of my south east of England house.

      So in summary, for the majority of Scots, voting tory is deeply immoral and that’s an interesting kick off point in any progress towards understanding English nationalism, Brexit, I’m alright jack voting and above all toryboy morality.

    123. Liz Rannoch says:

      Right where were we?

      Oh aye – wee flegs wi’ pictures on. Although I saw one possibly two saltires in those photos, plus maybe a saltire brolly? Wiz that a black watch coat the wee lassie had on?

      Jeesh! What do they think we are?

    124. Dr Jim says:

      Why is there no Empire anymore?
      Did all those countries leave it because England was good to them?

      As for English people, they were and are conned on a daily basis by telling them Good old England’s the best and every other country’s out to get them, America does the same thing, where did they learn it Ooh! from the country they kicked out like everybody else in the Empire did

      Football managers adopted the same strategy years ago to get their teams to hate the opposition and if you’re brought up from a child being told this shit of course you’ll believe it

    125. wull2 says:

      If you feel to reply to certain people, this is an appeal from me, don’t refer to them by the full name, as he is anything but that, especially the first part.
      Don’t be fooled by him sometimes putting the words together.

      Just Vote YES next time.

    126. sensibledave says:

      Heedy Spouts (as if he han’t read anything previously in the thread) …

      So in summary, for the majority of Scots, voting tory is deeply immoral and that’s an interesting kick off point in any progress towards understanding English nationalism.

      Heedy’s view is that 42.4% of voters in England are immoral.

      What about the Red Tories Heedy? You normally dish it out to them too. You could then get well up to 80% of despicable Englanders. WHy dont you throw the lib dem voters under the bus too. What about the SCots Labour and conservative voters?

      So many immoral and despicable people Heedy.

      .. Wait a minute! All that could be true … but isnt it more likely that you are just a d**k head”?

    127. Dan Huil says:

      Oh to see themselves as others see them…

      https://munguin.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/brex9.jpg?w=840

    128. Dan Huil says:

      @Dr Jim 1:02pm

      But Jim, there is a Britnat empire, Empire2.0, or there soon will be an empire again. Any second now. I mean rabid British nationalists wouldn’t lie to us, would they?

    129. Bob Mack says:

      Actually 42% of voters in England must be bordering on immorality. If you can tick an x in a box for a party you know is going to punish the poorest in Society whilst enriching the rich, who are removing human rights to make you work longer and pay more for your retirement, then that kind of sums you up Dave.

      In Scotland we have our own immorals who march to flute bands and represent Tories at different levels of government in their spare time. Chosen by the Tories because of their bigotry and rule Brittania attitude.

      Morality? You have no idea of the meaning you slug.

    130. heedtracker says:

      .. Wait a minute! All that could be true … but isnt it more likely that you are just a d**k head”?

      Could be sensible d, could be. But I do have a sense of morality and that’s why voting tory is immoral.

      Its also a very clear English national characteristic too sensible d.

      Maybe its all about word definitions sensible d.

      NOUN plural moralities
      noun

      Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.

      Red tory voters also ran out of excuses sensible d. The now filthy rich Crash Gordon, Bomber Blair’s New Labour wars on hot countries, that they assumed would be crushed under the might of UKOK weaponry, vomiting hundreds of billions on City spivs, all out red tory war on Scotland’s nascent democracy, their historic The Vow shyst etc.

      Every day of our Scottish lives, BBC Scotland rage at Scots like me, SNP out, Vote SLabour sensible d.

      Immoral or moral?

    131. louis.b.argyll says:

      Bob Mack..’If you can tick an x in a box for a party you know is going to punish the poorest in Society’

      Double that hypocracy when you include apparently-Christian Anglican bishops in the Lords, or Church of Scotland’s non-political, therefore complicit, silence.

      Religeous clerics, who’s function, instead of protecting the most vulnerable groups at risk from ‘further marginalisation’, seems to be merely rubber-stamping Tory / Labour policies, regardless of their impact.

    132. heedtracker says:

      Youre right though sensible d, Jezza Corbyn’s an awful example of immorality himself. Look at his horrific hypocrisy on England’s WMD’s, dumped in Scotland, because no matter how much England wants WMD’s, you certainly do not want to store them anywhere near you do you sensible.

      How moral of Head of CND Jezza, sensible d.

      http://www.cnduk.org/component/acymailing/archive/view/listid-89-cnd-council/mailid-569-cnd-congratulates-vice-chair-jeremy-corbyn-on-labour-leadership-nominationn

      http://www.labourcnd.org.uk/tag/jeremy-corbyn/

      JEREMY CORBYN
      POSTED ONOCTOBER 7, 2017
      “We need to avoid a nuclear apocalypse” – Corbyn statement on Nobel peace prize

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-trident-emily-thornberry-remarks

      Corbyn restates Labour’s commitment to Trident following shadow cabinet row.”

      You can do this all day sensible d.

      Yes, we know, Silence! annoying Scottish types, English tories, red and blue know what’s good for you, you’re a region of greater England and always will be, because, just because.

    133. Petra says:

      It’s high time that Scottish fishermen woke up to the reality of their situation, that is that they are reliant on selling their produce to the EU and that following Brexit English fleets will be heading their way.

      ….. ”The fisheries sector is not a huge portion of the UK economy, but is a symbolically important one in the mind of many Brexiteers: resentment over EU rules on fishing, and quota limits, is one of the longest-running gripes against the EU.

      However, fishing does not stand to be an obvious or easy winner after Brexit, with the UK facing the prospect of trying to renegotiate decades-old agreements governing where UK boats can fish, and crucially where they can sell their catches.

      Much of the fish caught in UK boats and waters isn’t sold in the UK, because of different food preferences in the UK versus some of our European neighbours. As a result, the UK exports just under £1bn a year worth of fish to EU countries – a trade which could be severely damaged in a hard-Brexit scenario in which the EU imposed tariffs on the UK.

      Even more significantly, a report prepared by the EU notes that the UK would lose automatic access to fish in EU waters, with these rights being redistributed among other nations. This doesn’t matter a great deal to Scottish fishers, who largely stay within UK waters, but the English fleet is hugely reliant on fishing in international waters. Most critically, UK boats catch much of the cod they take from Norwegian waters – meaning Brexit could even pose something of a risk to fish and chips….”

      http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit-deconstruct-britain-sector-industries-1-5387078

      …………………………………………………..

      @ Gus1940 says at 9:23 am …. ”This M8 Bridges Banner protest is a bad idea just asking for trouble from the Bad Guys. It would only take the slightest accident on the motorway whether or not due to the banners being a distraction for Uncle Tom Tractor Gordon and his media pals jumping on it with glee.”’

      I TOTALLY agree with you Gus. I don’t know who came up with the idea, well-meaning or not, but as you say it’ll only take one accident (relating to looking at a flag/whatever OR NOT) and the MSM will make a meal of it. I can’t see this being monitored like marches through Scottish cities either, so will we find that independence supporters are joined by Unionist rabble waving their Union flags? Worse still Unionists pretending to be supporters of independence.

      I don’t know why they don’t get their heads together, chip in, and open Yes shops in EVERY village, town, and city in Scotland. Install some kind of monitor or television and plaster free windows with informative information such as who controls the MSM, how much control Westminster has in comparison to Holyrood, McCrone, Stolen Seas etc. Print off articles by Prof Robertson on a daily basis and stick them on the windows. To my mind we’d convert FAR more people to supporting independence doing something like that than waving flags on a bridge.

    134. Dr Jim says:

      Prince Harry and his unfortunate deluded fiance Meghan Markle visited Edinburgh today and according to the BBC National news that shows “How important Scotland is to the Royal Family”

      Well that all sounds lovely

      Except,,, most of the people who turned out to see this Royal event were tourists who weren’t even aware a visit was scheduled they were just there for the one o’clock gun and a wee look at the castle, actual Scottish supporters of the Royals were thin on the ground even though the free flags were hurriedly distributed this turnout strongly resembled a Germy Corbyn visit

      Security for this Royal event could have been provided by the Brownies there were so few in attendance to secure, but nevertheless the Televisual media did their level best to maintain tight shots so as not to give the public the correct impression that not many actual Scottish people in actual Scotland give a toss

      I don’t believe in any way that this is a reflection on the young Royal couple and I don’t believe Scots don’t wish them well but I do believe the state of Scotlands new political choices and decisions point to a new direction in Scottish society that is consciously removing itself from the British Nationalistic identity culture that is England

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s the end of a comment on a thread on The National:

      By the way, the not so casual Anglophobia peppered throughout these pages stinks the place out.does no-one moderate?

      There are some extremists in the Indy movement, but there are also people who are too casual with the use of the word “English”, and that gets seized on by those who wish to paint us and the SNP as being “anti-English”.

      We need to take care to differentiate between the decisions made by England having 10 times our population hence out-voting our votes, and the politicians who are English by a similar factor, from the English people as a whole, most of whom don’t even like politicians – any politician.

    136. Petra says:

      I’m really disappointed with some of the guff (Police Scotland – institutionalised dysfunctionality) that MacWhirter has been spouting recently. Iain MacWhirter’s latest article is full of ‘discrepancies’. It’s clear that he hasn’t done his homework and is totally biased in dumping blame for the Gormley / Flanagan fiasco onto Michael Matheson.

      How he can defend Mr Gormley is beyond me – ”Gormley was one of the most senior policemen in the entire UK, decorated by the Queen, who specialised in combatting terrorism and organised crime. If he is forced out through unsubstantiated charges of gross misconduct, then it doesn’t take Inspector John Rebus to tell you that there’s something fishy going on in Police Scotland.”

      Gormley wasn’t forced out. The wimp or fly man just walked away, with all investigations against him being dropped, and left Matheson to take the flack. Strange behaviour don’t you think, fishy even, coming from someone who specialised in combatting terrorism and organised crime?

      ‘Iain Macwhirter: ‘This is no way to run an amusement arcade let alone a nation’s police force.’

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15986627.Iain_Macwhirter___This_is_no_way_to_run_an_amusement_arcade_let_alone_a_nation_s_police_force_/

      …………………………………….

      Lesley Riddoch is another. This is a response to one of her articles from Dr Guro Huby
      Senior Researcher, University College Østfold.

      ‘Letters: Misconceptions about health and social care in Norway.’

      ”Is Lesley Riddoch absolutely certain it was Norway she was writing about last month (How tough love on healthcare pays off for Norwegians, The National, January 25)? I have lived in Scotland for 20 years, and Norway for seven. I have researched, worked in and used health and social care services in both countries. Some claims need correcting, and more context is needed to interpret others.

      • In Norway you can’t visit A&E without a GP referral? I don’t understand where this is coming from. It does not apply to the ordinary A&E Legevakt, used by most people. In fact, Legevakt is where we go when our GP is closed.

      • Norway manages demand for hospital services? Not as well as Scotland, in my experience and according to evidence. Visits to Legevakt circumvent referrals from GPs into hospital services. Most referrals to hospital beds come from Outpatients and Legevakt. GPs can do little to treat patients in the community, as they have no practice team around them for management of routine illness. They refer to Outpatients, who refer in to hospital beds. This is encouraged; hospitals are run as separate enterprises that need patients for income and to balance their budgets.

      • Norway manages delayed discharges by charging municipalities for every 24 hours a patient remains in hospital after declared ready for discharge by a doctor? This claim needs serious modification. It is part of the Co-ordination Reform introduced in 2012 to improve co-ordination between the hospital sector and municipalities and reduce pressure on hospitals. The evaluation of the reform in 2015 suggested delayed discharges had gone down, but this was continuation of a trend that had started before the reform. More seriously, patients are moved out earlier (more income and less expense for hospitals, see above) and service bottlenecks were simply moved, with patients stuck in units outside of hospitals. Vulnerable older people’s journeys from hospital to home were more fragmented and risky. Admissions went up after the reform – small wonder perhaps. Municipalities were given more resources to manage increased demand, but this did not compensate for increased activity from more ill and more vulnerable patients.

      • Fees for use of services limits demand? Possibly, but evidence suggests this also applies to patients with a low income who are more likely to suffer poor health and with greater need of services. Yes, there are poor people in Norway too, and the numbers are increasing due to government policies: cuts in benefits (including for disabled) to fund tax cuts is one reason.

      In Norway, if you have a physical complaint that counts as urgent you will receive excellent care equal to none. If you are old, mentally ill, poor and or suffering from chronic illness that requires the co-ordination of health, social care and welfare services, you are up against a very unwieldy system. The increased use of private providers to get waiting lists down is part of the problem: the system becomes more and more fragmented and it is very easy to fall between the cracks.

      I know the health service in Scotland is creaking. Austerity does not go well together with increased demand. But the Scottish system is vastly superior to the Norwegian in many respects. One reason is that health services are part of one publicly owned system where the separate parts are forced to work together to limit demand. And councils are made part of that collaboration. It’s not perfect, but a look south to England suggests it’s not the worst system.

      If you live in Scotland you may well have reason to count your blessings. If you write about another country’s health policy you may do well to do some research beforehand.”

      Dr Guro Huby
      Senior Researcher, University College Østfold

      http://www.thenational.scot/community/15982798.Letters__Misconceptions_about_health_and_social_care_in_Norway/

      ……………………………………….

      Petition

      https://www.snp.org/signal

    137. Bob Mack says:

      Ghandi 1928,

      “Through independence, I seek to deliver other oppressed nations from the exploitation of Western civilisations, of which, England is the greatest partner”.

      Now, Ghandi knew all about Scotland, but he also knew who controlled the UK.

      Not much has really changed.

    138. galamcennalath says:

      A fair appraisal of the uselessness of TMay!

      http://archive.is/B8F64

      I particularly like …

      “the only speech May has given recently which had any substance was her party conference speech, and that substance was catarrh”

      So, she be giving us “the road to Brexit” speeches shortly.

      Here’s my prediction … “we want to cherry pick all the best bits” …. again!

    139. Petra says:

      From someone who probably knows what’s devolved to Scotland …….

      ‘David Hayman: Why life really does begin at 70 for Scotland’s most loveable hardman.’

      ….”Yet his favourite character to play has still been Bob Cunningham, a character created by his friend, the Scottish playwright Chris Dolan, for two one-man shows staring Hayman – and made in response to the pair’s growing support for the Scottish Independence in 2014 – called The Pitiless Storm and The Cause of Thunder.

      “I said, ‘Chris, why don’t we create something that’s about our journey as working class men, stamped as Labour at birth, to now voting for an independent Scotland run by the SNP?’.” The result was, for Hayman, “art and life and politics all coming together in one show”.

      “That’s rare. That was the most exhilarating thing. When another referendum is called we’re going to write a third play and we’ll take it on the road again.”

      Unsurprisingly, then, it looks like the irrepressible David Hayman plans to be busy for a good few years yet.”

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15986720.Why_life_really_does_begin_at_70_for_Scotland_s_most_loveable_hardman/

      ………………………

      To someone who clearly didn’t ……

      ‘Tommy Gormley says Holyrood must get its film powers back.’

      ‘A top Hollywood assistant director believes Holyrood must “get back powers” on tax breaks for the film industry.

      Tommy Gormley, who has worked on Star Trek Into Darkness, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, and Wonder Woman, told MSPs there had been a “cataclysmic failure at every level” to deliver for the industry.

      He also suggested Holyrood be given control over rebates for film and TV, saying having a more competitive regime here than the rest of the UK would attract productions “in a New York second”.

      Gormley, who was born in Glasgow, was giving evidence to MSPs on the Parliament’s Culture Committee about the Scottish screen sector.

      He said: “We haven’t just missed the boat in this country, we’ve missed an entire fleet.

      “There is a cataclysmic failure at every level to deliver. The fact that production in Scotland is catastrophically low compared to the UK, is a disgrace.”

      He told MSPs the film industry is a “hardheaded, financial business” as he called for ministers to have the ability to offer larger rebates to producers coming to Scotland.

      Gormley added: “I lived in Los Angeles for seven years. I came back to the UK because all the big movies are back here suddenly.

      “Why are they back here? They’ve got the facilities, they’ve got a highly skilled crew, and you’ve got a very beneficial tax rebate.”

      “Why don’t we look for a clever way of Scotland getting a bit of that action. Are we allowed to take an extra one per cent in the film and TV tax rebate? That would be a game-changer.”

      Committee convener Joan McAlpine told him that tax breaks for the sector “are entirely reserved to Westminster”, prompting Gormley to suggest: “We should get them back.”

      Gormley also called for better studio facilities, and said: “We can’t spend every day filming up in Glencoe doing scenery, you need a film studio, it’s not rocket science, it’s very simple.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15982901.Holyrood_must____get_back____film_powers/

    140. heedtracker says:

      Not much has really changed.

      Well, the former India Raj imperial royal’s have got richer and richer, beyond avarice, in a the few decades since they got booted out, of India.

      They’re rammed down our throats as divine beings as we know, its a tory royals arse licking world, we just live in it,

      https://sputniknews.com/viral/201802121061584354-north-korean-cheerleader-team/

      is no different from massed ranks of beeb gimps puckering up, royals groveling wise.

    141. Dr Jim says:

      The world is not team GB

      It’s not Scotlands fault that English people are touchy about their nationality
      isn’t that why England changed its name to Britain because the first one was offending so many other countries

      England’s a country what’s wrong with these people aren’t they proud of saying the name of where they were born or live

      I’m not offended by someone calling me Scottish it’s who I am what’s the problem

      You’ll never get an Irish person from the Republic agreeing that they live in the British Isles
      That’s offensive to them, they have memories and they go places in the world where the very mention of the word can get you killed, not so likely with an Irish passport

      Everywhere I go I make damn sure and obvious I’m anything but British for the same reason

      If English people want to change the worlds perception of them it’s up to them, not everybody else and that’s speaking as a Scotsman with an English Mum who till her dying day thought England was the master race even though Scotland was better educated, nicer scenery, nicer people, but nevertheless inferior to the Queen and all who sailed in her

      Even though you love some people it doesn’t mean they always think with their brain

    142. Scotspine says:

      @ Dr Jim,

      I have it on very good authority from folk familiar with Balmoral, that the younger Royals cant stand the place and hate coming up here.

      The only one who seems to like it, is the hapless Edward, who likes taking part in private Plays at Haddo House.

    143. Dr Jim says:

      @Scotspine

      It’s they push around calor gas fires they don’t like they cannae work them in our rarified atmosphere of Cauld!

    144. Petra says:

      Remember when the Unionists at Holyrood castigated Nicola for trying to strike trade deals with China?

      It’s OK folks Caffney wasn’t out there trying to whip up trade links with Holyrood.

      Caffney’s Commons entry stated the purpose of the trip: “To strengthen relations between the UK Parliament and the National People’s Congress of China; to support British businesses operating in China; and to deepen the understanding of parliamentarians of China.”

      And don’t worry it’s been suggested that he take equality and diversity training. The classes must be choc-a-bloc with Unionist politicians and councillors. I hope we tax-payers aren’t having to fork out for this.

      ………………

      A couple of articles from the Sunday Herald:

      ‘Scottish Labour MP Hugh Gaffney went on China trip weeks before racist ‘C****y’ outburst.’

      ”The Scottish Labour MP reprimanded for using the word “Ch*nky” at a Burns Supper went on an all-expenses paid trip to China weeks before his racist outburst.

      Hugh Gaffney, who enjoyed the £1,627 junket as a member of an all-party group on China, was there to “deepen” his understanding of the global superpower……..

      According to his House of Commons register of interest, Gaffney went on a five-day trip to Guangdong and Guangxi in November.

      His share of the fact-finding mission – £908 in flights, £540 in accommodation, as well as other expenses – was paid for by the All Party Parliamentary China Group.

      The APPCG, a cross-party forum, was listed as the donor, but “sponsorship” was provided by organisations including HSBC and City of London.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15986724.Scottish_Labour_MP_Hugh_Gaffney_went_on_China_trip_weeks_before_racist__Chinky__outburst/

      …………………………

      Oh come on! For God’s sake. Are there no decent Scots out there qualified to do this 400,000 grand a year job? Talk about Scotland being colonised in more ways than one? Just bring in an expert in that field.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Mathieson_(nephrologist)

      ………………………………….

      ‘New Edinburgh University boss ‘failing to protect academic freedoms and siding with Chinese regime’

      EDINBURGH University’s new principal Peter Mathieson has been accused of failing to protect academic freedoms and siding with the Chinese authorities during his time as head of Hong Kong University.

      Mathieson became the highest-paid figure in Scottish higher education after agreeing a salary package worth almost £400,000 a year.

      However, his three-year term in the same post at the University of Hong Kong was dogged by controversy.

      He faced student protests in 2017 after he signed a statement that appeared to condemn support for Hong Kong independence as an abuse of freedom of speech.

      Green MSP Ross Greer said the remarks showed Mathieson was not a suitable figure to lead Edinburgh University……

      Greer, the Scottish Greens education spokesman, said Mathieson’s record could tarnish the reputation of Edinburgh University.

      He said: “It does beggar belief that one of Scotland’s ancient universities can be led by someone with a questionable record on freedom of speech and who appears to have sided with the Chinese regime rather than his own students.

      “Mathieson’s actions in Hong Kong should have raised red flags immediately and disqualified him from the post he now occupies and Edinburgh University must urgently clarify whether they were aware of his record and, if so, why on earth they felt his appointment was justified.

      “Given the long-held worldwide concern about these institutes and the Chinese Government, questions must be asked as to whether this appointment has compromised Edinburgh University’s global reputation for academic freedom.”

      Mathieson also faced criticism about academic and student freedoms during his time as Vice-Chancellor and President of Hong Kong University.

      In a survey of academic staff and senior administrators at the University, 78 per cent of respondents said they strongly disagreed that Mathieson had “effectively protected academic freedom”.

      Nearly 80 per cent said they strongly disagreed that he “understands the needs of the students and the staff”….

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15986723.New_Edinburgh_University_boss_accused_of_siding_with_Chinese_regime/

    145. heedtracker says:

      The only one who seems to like it, is the hapless Edward, who likes taking part in private Plays at Haddo House.

      Richest dynastic power in the world the Royals have dozens of palaces and estates around their Kingdom. England’s giving Brenda the billionaire several hundred million to do up Buck Palace, for being nice presumably.

      That’s the same England that votes for tory UK govs that wrote building regulations that permitted rich developers to build tower block housing with no fire suppression sprinkler systems.

      UK Developers do fit very sophisticated sprinkler systems in their tower blocks but only for the rich.

      Why is a tory gov morally allowed to vomit hundreds of millions of taxpayers dosh on one of Billionaire Brenda’s palaces, yet a horror like Grenfell makes not the slightest difference to the English electorate?

      And as ever, beeb Scotland gimp network takes a tory caused horror in England and then uses it all to terrorise Scots, and SNP out,

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43031165

    146. Petra says:

      ”Keep us divided and weak.” Where have I heard that one before?

      Scotland being dragged out of the EU and forced into a ‘special relationship’ with Trump. Waken up Scots before it’s too late!

      ‘Hamid Karzai hits out at US and Pakistan for ongoing war.’

      AFGHANISTAN’S former president has criticised both the US and Pakistan, accusing them of using the Afghan war to further their own interests.

      Hamid Karzai called on Washington to sanction Pakistani military and intelligence officials.

      He said his country is in “terrible shape” 16 years after the US-led invasion that toppled the Taliban. Karzai became president shortly after the fall of the Taliban and held office until 2014.

      In recent weeks, Kabul has been battered by a wave of attacks claimed alternately by the Taliban and a rival Daesh affiliate, which killed scores of people and brutally exposed the US-backed government’s failure to secure the capital.

      Karzai said: “The US cannot tell us: ‘Well, if I am not here, you will be worse off.’ We are in a terrible shape right now … We want to be better. We want to have peace. We want to have security.”

      The former president said Washington wants to establish permanent bases in Afghanistan to project power in the region, while Pakistan wants to turn Afghanistan into a client state.

      He said US forces are not in Afghanistan “to stop extremism”.

      “In my view their intention is to keep us divided and weak so they can carry on their objectives in this region,” Karzai added.

      “They have their global politics and rivalries. They have China as a great rising power. They have Russia as a revitalised, re-energised great power on the world scene, and they feel threatened and challenged.”

      Echoing complaints from the current government, Karzai accused neighbouring Pakistan of harbouring Taliban militants. He called on the US to sanction Pakistani military and intelligence officials.

      “We hope the US will now act in Pakistan,” he said. “‘Act in Pakistan’ doesn’t mean that the Pakistan people should be hurt or that war should be launched in Pakistan.”

      US president Donald Trump has ramped up pressure on Pakistan since the start of the year, suspending up to $2 billion (£1.4bn) in military aid after accusing it of failing to crack down on militants who launch cross-border attacks on US and Afghan forces.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/15939472.__39_In_my_view_their_intention_is_to_keep_us_divided_and_weak__39_/

    147. Fred says:

      @ Petra, very good posts. Leslie Riddoch just fell off her pedestal & McWhirter was never on one! he’s basically a prostitute & just writes anything for money.

    148. Scott says:

      Westminster Council encourages wealthiest residents to voluntarily pay extra tax for social projects

      I wonder why Murdo Fraser is not commenting on this maybe because it is highest Taxed part of the UK.

    149. Bill McLean says:

      Sensible dave at 1003. So thankful you called me a “fool”. I have been i’ll admit until I saw through the foul, class based, corruption and hypocrisy that masquerades as a democracy in a modern world – and it’s many brain-washed inhabitants. Go away!

    150. Robert Peffers says:

      @Kangaroo

      I left a rather long reply to your question on the end of the last thread. It doesn’t explain everything but gives enough pointers for further reading and further questions. It does after all cover a long period of history. I hope you are still reading Wings or I’ve wasted a lot of time.
      ;-))

    151. yesindyref2 says:

      Sadly for England they don’t have the SNP, and the LibDems are mini-me Tories there, so they’re forced to vote either Tories or Labour. Or UKIP!

    152. Petra says:

      Long letter in the National from Lorna Campbell.

      ”Pete Wishart MP says that we need a new vision (The National, February 9). No, what we need is a backbone to stand up to Westminster and Whitehall; we have the vision and the mandate already. I would urge both the SNP leadership and members, and the Yes movement, to stop and think about what we are up against and how we might overcome the odds. The words of the First Marquis of Montrose, James Graham, sums up our situation very succinctly:

      “…He either fears his fate too much
      Or his deserts are small
      That puts it not unto the touch
      To win or lose it all…”

      This, Mr Wishart, is what we should do about a second indyref and about our inexorable march to Brexit on England’s say-so:

      a) seize the day and hold another independence referendum before March, 2019 with or without the Westminster government’s consent.

      and b) hold a new Scottish EU referendum after independence, with all the options on offer – full membership, EEA, EFTA, no membership at all – after consultation with the EU.

      We have nothing to lose but our self-respect if we do not seize the day. We neither asked for Brexit nor voted for it; we were told that if we voted No, it was a guarantee we would remain in the EU, and it was the incentive to our EU residents to vote No in order to remain here, so we have a direct link between that No vote and Brexit, both used as a cosh to beat us into submission, and we have every right under international law and natural justice to seek our independence in these circumstances.

      If Mrs May refuses consent to indyref2, then there is nowhere to go but out of the UK at that point. My only caveat would be to put it to Westminster and Whitehall that, if wholesale root-and-branch reform of the UK is undertaken – in which all four parts have full fiscal autonomy, have an equal voice in all decisions made, both domestic and foreign, in defence and in the oil and gas, etc – and a compromise reached with the EU on Brexit, or some form of mitigation, then we might be able to rethink our leaving.

      If the reaction is negative (with one week given to answer yes or no) as I would expect it to be – but you never know – then we inform Westminster and Whitehall that we will be taking steps to hold another indyref and, if successful, to move immediately to removing our MPs from Westminster and starting the dissolution process of the Treaty of Union, 1707. To that end, we should inform the UN and the EU of our intentions and invite impartial overseers to ensure the process is carried out properly, with the Scottish Electoral Commission’s rules as the guide.

      If we do not move on a second indyref before the UK leaves the EU and we are dragged out and into a dystopian, Tory-led/Labour-led/coalition government at Westminster, post-Brexit the SNP will lose support entirely – not because either it or supporters no longer want independence, at least as a last resort, but because all hope will be gone. The General Election should have been a wake-up call: we allowed the British/English nationalist alliance – with a mantra, “stopindyref2/noindyref2”, as the only policy on offer – to call the tune.

      Yes, it is a frightening prospect that those in Scotland who regard our country as a colony and/or as part of a Greater England may vote No in huge numbers again, but it is a risk we must take. If we do not do so, Mr Wishart, we are finished anyway. The leadership, including the new depute leader, must take the initiative now and lead us out of the UK, if that is what it takes, or go down fighting if we lose again, because the SNP cannot hold Scotland indefinitely – no party could – and that might well prove true in 2021.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/community/15987225.Letters__If_there_s_no_indyref_before_Brexit__hope_will_be_lost/

    153. Macart says:

      I hear that the usual suspects are STILL banging on about the catastrophe that is Scotland’s major institutions – Education, Police Scotland, NHS, Scotrail… Huh!

      Strangely, I’ve had some recent experience with the Scotland’s NHS and I doubt I could sing their praises more highly. Literally lifesavers to whom I will never be able to repay a debt. Ditto education, vis a vis recent experience.

      I have twins (one of each) and one in particular has no troubles to seek when it comes to learning difficulty (that’s personal, so I won’t go there m’kay). The support my child has received throughout their formative early education was second to none and it has seen that child through to higher education standard where they still receive vital learning support. Now that both have moved on to higher education it’s also probably worth mentioning I have absolutely ZERO problem with paying taxes which ensures our kids receive a tuition fee free higher education. Then there’s Scotrail which, because of my location, I have some experience and use of. Nope. No complaints there either.

      Finally there’s Police Scotland. They’ve lost a couple of heid bummers and had teething problems with mergers. Yet through all that, what matters to the public is what they deliver. I’m looking oot the windae just now and I’m not seeing zombie survival mode in COD. There’s no dystopian future carnage happening near as I can tell and there aren’t any riots running amok up and doon the street. Well with crime across the board on a forty year low, I’m struggling to see the problem tbh. They do a good job under pretty trying circumstances, but then the same can be said for each of those institutions.

      Carrying on regardless, the political class continue to use them for a goto punchbag. Awesome plan and go figure.

      I wonder what it’s like elsewhere in the UK for these institutions? Maybe worth folk taking a look around and comparing. Could be they might even come to appreciate that there are times and places where words such as catastrophe and crisis are more appropriately applied.

      What d’you think constitutes catastrophe and crisis in the real world? Y’know, outside of a political class and their pet meeja commentators looking to dramatise the latest essenpee badness.

      War and its victims seem pretty catastrophic. Seems everywhere you look these days that you have mass migrations and misery heaped upon misery for survivors fleeing impossible conditions in search of safe haven. Yeah, I’d say that’s a humanitarian crisis.

      Recent history from India, Indonesia, Mexico and Japan could teach us a thing or two about catastrophe. Earthquake, tsunami, nuclear power stations under catastrophic failure, global warming causing extreme weather conditions going from unseasonal storms/floods all the way through to full blown hurricanes with attendant human suffering, loss of life and widespread damage. Those again would, under ANY reasonable assessment, constitute catastrophe and crisis.

      Politically? Even in our own backyard it’s fairly easy to spot when true injustice has been enacted against the population. When a Conservative government for instance, breaks/endangers existing national and international agreements in pursuit of personal agenda. When a system of government fully ignores the consequences for those in its care to pursue their own ideology regardless of cost or collateral damage to the point where they visit constitutional crisis, economic suffering and political chaos upon their own populations. I’d say that qualifies as both catastrophe and crisis.

      Mibbies their idea of crisis is different from other folks though. (shrugs)

    154. Petra says:

      My last post of the day, lol!

      Two ‘tattie’ posts from the National’s letter page. Worth a read and maybe worth contacting Bartletts with a civilised request, that is to use some of the 4 million of Scottish taxpayers money that they’ve received to put a Saltire on their tattie bags.

      …………………………..

      ”Like many folk I’m annoyed that Scottish products are being retailed with packaging displaying the Union Jack and not our Scottish Saltire. In yesterday’s edition of The National yet another case of this happening has been highlighted by Edith Davidson from Innerleithen (Innerleithen (Letters, February 9).

      She writes that Sainsbury’s are selling Airdrie firm Albert Bartlett potatoes in packages with a Union Jack. Ms Davidson asks as many people as possible to bombard Sainsburys with complaints.

      I wonder if perhaps it is Albert Bartlett that should be bombarded with complaints. After all, they appear to be happy to allow their potatoes to be sold under the guise of being British. One has to ask oneself why is a Scottish firm happy to do this? Surely they could demand that their produce/products must be retailed in packaging which clearly lets people know the country of origin? Do Albert Bartlett, and other Scottish companies selling under the Union jack, have no pride in their Scottish products?

      Anne Smart, Glasgow

      ………………………………….

      I LIKE my tatties. We grow our own but at about this time of year it’s back to supermarket tatties. I have had great difficulty buying any this year because the vast majority of packs are festooned with Union jackery.

      So, my question is this: as Bartlett’s have been given £4 million of Scottish funding to expand their brand (Scottish potato firm Albert Bartlett wins £4m investment, The National, February 7), will they now have the Saltire on every pack of their tatties? I would hope they appreciate that being in receipt of Scottish cash bears a certain amount of expectation of loyalty.

      Morag D Black, Brora

      http://www.thenational.scot/community/15985436.Letters__Are_Scottish_growers_happy_with_Union_flags_on_bags_/

    155. Bob Mack says:

      If anyone wants to know what happens to a countries economy after independence. Look no further than India. The British only gave India it’s freedom because the post war economy in India had crashed. So ,in 1947, rather than look after the Indians,they gave them independence.

      Compare that to India economy today and it becomes very evident indeed that being ruled by the UK was entirely detrimental to India.

      The UK is a parasite nation. It can only survive by bleeding others dry. It cannot create it’s own sustainability.
      This is why we must get out.

    156. starlaw says:

      Catastrophe … Westminster parties have learned to spell a new big word and love to show off at every opportunity, as in much ado about nothing.
      Yesterday I had a real catastrophe, the bottom of my rubbish bag burst on the way to the bin.

    157. starlaw says:

      Union Jackerry

      I’m sure its the Supermarkets who dictate the packaging, Supermarkets buy these potato fields from the farms before they are even lifted. I know the co-operative used to buy the field and send in their own pickers, usually Irish Tattie squads.
      Recently I heard of a dispute between a farmer and Tesco over a field of cauliflowers, over the bar coding on the wrapping machine.

    158. heedtracker says:

      The UK is a parasite nation. It can only survive by bleeding others dry. It cannot create it’s own sustainability.
      This is why we must get out.

      England’s spent the last 40+ years, building a highly developed modern economic powerhouse, a major world economic power. Much of it’s been underwritten by their North Sea oil and gas reserves and EU membership. They still have it all going on, massive rolling infrastructure spends, giant uni’s, massive investment from across the planet, all foreigners profiting from stable govs that borrows its way out of most problems.

      England’s propaganda unit in Pacific Quay keep any critics and dissenters in their place.

      Look at how easy we were lied to about the EU for decades by same beeb gimp network, right up to that UK gov Brexit growth drop report. England can and will absorb a Brexit growth contraction because its so big. Their Scotland region can like it or lump it.

      If youre wondering why a few trawlermen in Buckie think Nigel Farage gives a flying fudge about them, its all down to UKOK beeb gimp propaganda. It works.

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra
      That’s a great thing you’re doing there with your snippets. Yes, Lorna’s a great poster, has the energy to keep going, which, I must admit, I don’t at times. It’s good she’s doing the letter-writing to counter the SiU green ink gang. Who have perhaps mischief-making sidekicks that the rest of the gang can pick up on, who knows.

    160. dakk says:

      @sensibledave said’Would anyone care to tell me to whom he is referring?’

      I’m referring to the people of the UK who elect their war mongering governments.

      You know,just the same ones you stereotyped as being’good and decent’.

      You do believe in democracy so you say.

    161. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Fireproofjim at 11.51

      I prefer the “former UK” or FUK for short

    162. Petra says:

      @ Fred says at 3:34 pm – ”Petra, very good posts. Leslie Riddoch just fell off her pedestal & McWhirter was never on one! he’s basically a prostitute & just writes anything for money.”

      I’ve never known him to write something so bad, Fred. A journalistic low for him, imo. That article was the pits, as far as I’m concerned, such as the fact that he outlined some of the PS disasters, but failed to mention that it was CC House that reined over them: Implemented them… sex raids, stop and search children and regular police carrying arms. Police Scotland is then tarred with being ”institutionally dysfunctional” by MacWhirter when it was the man at the top who was clearly dyfunctional and that it was he alone who was out of control and had to resign not just because of two roadside deaths, but in relation to his actions / policies from day one.

      This is Iain MacWhirter’s abysmal take on it. Diabolical.

      ”Since its birth, Police Scotland has shown all the signs of institutional dysfunctionality. It announced its arrival in 2013 by conducting heavy-handed raids on sex workers in Edinburgh saunas, who claimed they were strip-searched and had condoms removed. Some 11 people were charged with brothel-keeping under Operation Windermere, but after three years all the charges were dropped. Edinburgh’s enlightened approach to gay, trans and heterosexual saunas has been undermined in the process, leaving a breach of trust between sex workers and the police.

      Next year it emerged that Police Scotland had been conducting nine times as many stop and search operations as the New York Police Department. In some areas there’d been a 400 per cent increase since the force was merged. Thousands of children were being stopped and searched, some as young as seven years old.

      After the United Nations Human Rights Commission condemned the practice, Police Scotland agreed to desist collaring the under-aged, and to review its self-serving doctrine of “consensual” stop and search. But public anxieties persisted as reports emerged of armed police appearing at traffic accidents and street altercations in Scottish cities.

      Sir Stephen House, the then chief constable, had to issue an order banning police from routinely carrying guns. That he had to make this suggested that the police service in Scotland was out of control.

      Sir Stephen eventually resigned in late 2015 following the deaths of two motorists, who lay in their crashed car on the M9 for three days after a phone call was not properly logged by the police……”

      ……………………….

      @ yesindyref2 says at 4:26 pm …. ”Petra – That’s a great thing you’re doing there with your snippets. Yes, Lorna’s a great poster, has the energy to keep going, which, I must admit, I don’t at times. It’s good she’s doing the letter-writing to counter the SiU green ink gang. Who have perhaps mischief-making sidekicks that the rest of the gang can pick up on, who knows.”

      Yeah I see her posting on the Herald too, yesindyref2 (and no doubt elsewhere). She’s a great wee warrior, like some on here too of course. Thank God we’ve got SO many decent and highly intelligent people supporting independence. Maybe needing more people to write into / or post on newspapers such as the National to counteract the concerted ‘Unionist movement’ ploy?

    163. Robert Peffers says:

      @Blair Paterson says: 12 February, 2018 at 4:44 pm:

      ” … it puts me in mind of Culloden where the British cannons were hammering the clans,while they stood waiting for the order to charge but none came so some brave souls took on theirselves to charge alright it did not succeed but at least they tried God bless them all.

      Haven’t you figured out the truth about Culloden even yet Blair?

      Even after the many truths about history I have explained here on Wings?

      The Holy Roman see had appointed the Monarch of the Kingdom of England as, “Lord of Ireland”, (1198). The Crown of Ireland Act 1542 then established a personal union between the English and Irish crowns. This ruled that whoever was King of England was to be King of Ireland as well and so its first joint holder of that kingdom was King Henry VIII of England. Who just, under the rule of law of Divine right of Kings made Ireland part of the Kingdom of England, (1542).

      The Kingdom of England had also annexed the Principality of Wales by the Statute of Rhuddlan, (in 1284), but all these annexations were legal in the countries/kingdoms concerned because they were all under the same rule of lar as, “The Divine Right of Kings”, by which all monarchs were selected for the post by God by having them born in a royal womb. Thus, in the kingdoms concerned it was all perfectly legal in the eyes of the Holy Roman Se and there were no Protestants about in those days so the Pope was the international authority.

      However, in 1320, the Holy Roman Se had been none too pleased with the monarchy of the Kingdom of England because of their way of life and their setting themselves up as the head of the Church of England and when the Scots sent the Declaration of Arbroath to the Pope he accepted it and that made the people of Scotland sovereign and thus their monarch became the defender of the people’s sovereignty and Scotland was not under the rule of law of Divine Right of Kings.

      So, you may well ask, “What has that got to do with the Battle of Culloden”? The answer is everything for in 1603 when James VI inherited the Crown of the Kingdom of England he was not sovereign under Scots law and thus could not just absorb the kingdom of England, (three countries), under the law of Divine Right of Kings nor could he, (as king of England), annex Scotland because he didn’t have Scotland’s sovereignty to give.

      So point one. There could be no legal United Kingdom formed in 1603 and we move on to 1688 and the English Parliament’s rebellion against their rightful monarch who was still sovereign under the Divine Right of Kings rule of Law. He was by this Time James II of England and still James VII of a still independent Scotland but the Scots had not rebelled against their rightful monarch and thus the Jacobites could not be rebels against the King of England and James VII was their rightful king. So much for the English claim that their was a Jacobite rebellion.

      What is more Culloden was nearly 40 years after the illegally acquired Treaty of Union and here was a Kingdom of England army killing not just what they claimed were rebels against the English monarchy but innocent non-combatant women and children not to mention any living creature, wild or domestic, they could find. Remember that in those days there were no ASDAs or Tescos just a wee whilie up the road and the living and wounded would die without food. We can never know the real number of victims of Culloden.

      Perfidious Albion indeed.

    164. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 15:48,

      Yes, Lorna Campbell speaks for me there too. It’s so heartening to have someone with real backbone speak out like this. (So many thanks, Lorna, if you ever visit WoS!)

      It seems to me that it’s precisely the faintheartedness and wanton readiness to abandon higher ground of some of those who aspire to lead the SNP that caused the most harm to the party’s position at the last UKGE. A self-fulfilling prophecy of failure if ever there was one!

    165. Petra says:

      @ RJS at 5:11pm … Lorna Campbell.

      She speaks for me too RJS, 100%, including not confusing an independence vote with the EU issue. Let’s get our Independence first and then put EU or not, EEA or EFTA to the people following the outlining of clear and concise facts.

      And I reckon that she does visit Wings RJS because I’ve seen her quote data (Stu’s), on newspaper sites, from here previously.

    166. yesindyref2 says:

      @Petra: “Maybe needing more people to write into / or post on newspapers such as the National to counteract the concerted ‘Unionist movement’ ploy?

      Yes indeed, I’m gettting a bit stale, and making mistakes. I admit the mistake and apologise (something unionists don’t do) but I’d still prefer not to make mistakes – or be corrected by fellow Indy supporters as has happened a few times.

      Herald too, it’s a bit lost in a lost world, doesn’t know where it’s going. I don’t do the Record, but D McE-H is right – every so often I have a look, and it’s surprisingly news full and balanced. I think it’s playing safe, but could be on the cusp.

    167. Robert Louis says:

      Just saw SKY Fox news telling us all how wonderful the waste of space Harry Saxe Coburg Goethe and his girlfriend were today on yet another holiday in Edinburgh. Lots of colonial english flags, but no Saltires to be seen. But apparently that’s ok, because Harr’ys girlfriend wore a tartan coat!!

      Patronising colonial English attitude. ‘oh, we’re going to Scotland, I’ll wear a tartan coat to try to look ‘scottishy’, but just make sure we don’t see the flag of Scotland’.

      Amazingly, one bloke said he had been up since 5am to get a good view.

      Help!

      Petra, great post of that letter from 348pm. Couldn’t agree more. Time for talk is over. Time to get on with it.

    168. Robert Louis says:

      Robert J.Sutherland at 511pm,

      could not agree more with you. As regards depute leader, I’m waiting for a candidate who is NOT wanting to ‘think about things’, or even worse ‘wait until after the next Scottish election’, as Tommy Shepherd wants. The current names won’t get my vote. I want a clear, unequivocal statement on driving indyref forward ASAP. ‘Thinking’ time is over, get on with it. Everything else is just piffle.

      Cannot believe how wishy washy they have all become. Taking the votes of indy supporters for granted.

      Bring back Alex Salmond, before it is too late.

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Louis
      I’m becoming totally allergic to this attitude of “wait until after the next Holyrood elections”, or spend years analaysing the SNP why it lost some MPs down at Westminster and reorganise so we can get more MPs in 2022 and 2027 and 2032 … who gives a rotten tangerine that got left over from Christmas, I want OUT of Westminster, all out, goodbye and keep drinking our whisky, crfacking tgourist attraction all the same along with the Tower of London, ‘pon Westminster Bridge with daffodils on and Madame Tussauds where they’ll all end up after the over-stuffed House of Lords.

      Westminster is not a sinecure, it’s a step, and there are 35 MPs there effing now to do the job of helping to steer S30 – or helping the negotations with loads of written questions with loads of written answers about value of assets, costs of ministries, how many jobs are in Scotland which I’m SURE they’re all doing rather than chasing foxes around England’s green and pleasant foxy fields.

      Ho hum. Sturgeon still has my confidence, she’s still on her original timetable of Indy Ref 2 after the terms of Brexit are known, but it’s not a blind faith, performance of Indy Ref 2 is expected and DEMANDED – or bye bye, and who’s up for starting the Scottish Independence Party in a hurry, with just one policy?

    170. Wullie B says:

      Robert Louis says:
      13 February, 2018 at 5:45 pm

      Just saw SKY Fox news telling us all how wonderful the waste of space Harry Saxe Coburg Goethe and his girlfriend were today on yet another holiday in Edinburgh. Lots of colonial english flags, but no Saltires to be seen. But apparently that’s ok, because Harr’ys girlfriend wore a tartan coat!!

      Patronising colonial English attitude. ‘oh, we’re going to Scotland, I’ll wear a tartan coat to try to look ‘scottishy’, but just make sure we don’t see the flag of Scotland’.

      Amazingly, one bloke said he had been up since 5am to get a good view.

      Help!

      Petra, great post of that letter from 348pm. Couldn’t agree more. Time for talk is over. Time to get on with it.

      EBC has a story today, the only Scot interviewed is a wee wummin from Glasgow, the rest are English or non British tourists, says a lot if they could only find one person out of a supposed six rows deep at the esplanande. looked quieter than an August afternoon with just a castle and the regimental museum of the Boggin Royals to see

    171. ronnie anderson says:

      Today’s Daily Record . Full front page ADVERT for carphone warehouse LoL & a wee panel with a story about a footballer having threats made about slitting his throat . The writings on the wall for the Daily Record SLITTING their own throats all by themselves LoL .

    172. heedtracker says:

      Amazingly, one bloke said he had been up since 5am to get a good view.

      That was yoon fanatic, royals worshipper Dr No?

      He’s got his red tory eye on the Greens too. SLab pissed away billions on that pointless Embro tram, so now they SNP out for pot holes on the roads.

      Cllr Scott Arthur Retweeted

      Cllr Scott Arthur
      ?

      @ProfScottThinks
      Feb 12

      Me in the paper on how the @EdinburghGreens sold out Edinburgh.

    173. ronnie anderson says:

      Grassroots meeting for Yes groups 3pm / 6pm Times Square St Enochs Sq Glasgow this Saturday 17th Feb .

      Leafleting in Buchanan St from 12 / 2.30 Sat 17th . ( wee Scribbles / Mike Fenwick ) & others .

    174. Petra says:

      @ Robert Louis says at 5:45 pm …. ”Just saw SKY Fox news telling us all how wonderful the waste of space Harry Saxe Coburg Goethe and his girlfriend were today on yet another holiday in Edinburgh. Lots of colonial english flags, but no Saltires to be seen. But apparently that’s ok, because Harr’ys girlfriend wore a tartan coat!! Patronising colonial English attitude. ‘oh, we’re going to Scotland, I’ll wear a tartan coat to try to look ‘scottishy’, but just make sure we don’t see the flag of Scotland’. Amazingly, one bloke said he had been up since 5am to get a good view. Help!”

      I saw it too on STV, RL, and don’t think I can stand much more of this. Gggrrr!!! …. Pulling my hair out.

      It was clear that these Union flags (some with Harry and Megan’s faces on it) had been distributed to the numpties (many foreign visitors right enough) and that they had searched to find someone with a Scottish accent to interview, as night after night the only accent that I hear on STV news is English. 80% in all honesty because I keep count.

      Well they found ONE amongst the English, Japanese and Americans that were interviewed. That Scottish guy, extremely ordinary and there at 5:00am, would give you the bl**dy heeby-jeebies with his adorational comments and goofy smile … ”Harry and Megan and William and Kate are the future royals.” That goofy smile might be wiped off, of his face in the very near future, hopefully.

      And then we had Harry, who couldn’t wait to get away from the ex-street sleepers in the cafe (and didn’t drink anything), make a bolt for the door and say ”good to see Irn Bru again.”

      I wonder who’s been bringing him up to date with all things Scottish? Don’t they sell Irn Bru in the Windsor area of England? Would make you sick. Harry et al, not the Irn Bru.

    175. Nana says:

      @Petra

      I read on twitter that two bus loads from Liverpool were at the meet & greet. I don’t remember who tweeted it.

      It’s nice to see actual photos of the visit and not what the MSM try to make out

      https://twitter.com/Kenscott7/status/963448908310597633

    176. Meg merrilees says:

      Petra 3.58

      Bartleytt potato under Butcher’s Apron in Lidl as well – bought the ones next to them with the Saltire on the packet.

    177. heedtracker says:

      I saw it too on STV, RL, and don’t think I can stand much more of this. Gggrrr!!! …. Pulling my hair out.

      All dynasties collapse from within. King Charles III will probably never be a thing. We all know why too.

      So in come the royalists to save their divine leaders,

      A “high-level group” of Commonwealth leaders is meeting in London to review the governance of Commonwealth nations – amid reports that its members may also begin considering the succession to Queen Elizabeth.

      Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate –

      The conference, at Marlborough House, the Commonwealth’s headquarters in London, brings together seven former ministers and senior officials from the global organisation.

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      Standard protection would probably still be to have several (armed) plain-clothes special branch officers in the crowd looking casual like.

      Which leaves …

    179. Nana says:

      @yesindyref2

      Which leaves….not a lot, lol

    180. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Petra @ 17:25,

      The main thing is not to shut options off, as some give every appearance of wanting to do by deliberately stalling.

      Any incumbent government of an independent Scotland is duty-bound to explore all available options. We expect no more and no less. The true position of the EU will certainly be revealed by that point. We are all getting fairly cheesed-off by referendums, but I for one have no problem whatever putting any putative agreement to the test if need be.

      I’m fairly sure that I’m not alone in having a fairly good idea what that popular decision will be, given the previous vote and all the unravelling falsities.

      Which is why I get the definite impression that there are some who are very keen to shut down options beforehand, and hope to shrug the blame off on London somehow.

      yesindyref2 @ 18:14,

      I agree that WM has had its day. Even if every Scottish MP was SNP, they would still be tolerated at best, and otherwise roundly ignored. Through absolutely no fault of their own. So navel-gazing about past WM elections is pointless. We should be bringing our MPs back hame. We and they would be all the better for it.

    181. Petra says:

      @ Nana says at 7:01 pm ….. ”Petra – I read on twitter that two bus loads from Liverpool were at the meet & greet. I don’t remember who tweeted it. It’s nice to see actual photos of the visit and not what the MSM try to make out.”

      https://twitter.com/Kenscott7/status/963448908310597633

      HA,HA,HA!

      A big thank you for that one Nana as I was totally scunnered with the ‘Royal News’ tonight. That’s fairly cheered me up.

      ………………………………

      @ Meg merrilees says at 7:06 pm …. ”Petra – Bartlett potato under Butcher’s Apron in Lidl as well – bought the ones next to them with the Saltire on the packet.”

      I’ve been doing the same too Meg, however now that I’ve been made aware that Bartletts have received 4 million of our money to promote their brand name I’ll be emailing them and asking for the Saltire to be shown on bags of potatoes. Potatoes that is that have been produced in Scotland, as not all are.

      Check out the map. 50/50 Scotland and England.

      http://albertbartlett.co.uk/farmers/#andrew-miller

    182. Petra says:

      @ RJS at 8:24pm …

      I’m trying to be patient RJS but it’s getting more and more difficult as every day goes on. Lorna Campbell’s post in the National says it all for me. Give them until the autumn (or around then when Brexit is made clearer – if ever!), recall our MP’s from Westminster and then go for a Referendum.

      I’m also waiting on Stu getting a massive crowdfunder off, of the ground to get his latest ‘coloured’ book out there. I hope I’m not going to be disappointed. On the other hand maybe he’s waiting for the situation to become clearer too before he finalises anything at all.

      Wishin’ and hopin’ and thinkin’ and prayin’. Plannin’ and dreamin’ each night Stu. Dreaming of that latest book of yours Stu and the impact that it could have on the thousands of ‘unenlightened’.

      Oh triggered a wee memory and now I’m off on a tangent, lol!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAdTsAKvVTU

    183. North chiel says:

      Agree entirely with “ Petra@ 0900pm” . The clock is certainly “ ticking down” as Monsieur Barnier would say and not just on “ Brexit” . We need steely resolve now as regards SNP leadership and I am in no doubt that our FM has this in abundance and will “ take the gloves off” when she decides to “ throw down the gauntlet “ .It certainly is important that she is backed up by a deputy leader who is articulate , determined , can think on “ their feet” and won’t be “ browbeaten “ by the Westminster “ state propagandists “ . Off the top of my head , I think it probably should be an MP, so perhaps Joanna Cherry QC could be a possibility?. Could Joanna and Nicola lead us to Independence?

    184. yesindyref2 says:

      @North chiel
      I totally agree as well, but I’d prefer to see a depute leader totally based in Scotland, getting Indy Ref 2 campaign together, co-ordinating with YES groups, talking to the people of Scotland, rather than wasting time down in “that place”.

      As far as I’m concerned, and I’ve felt like this for a long time now, that place is a foreign government and parliament, of curiosity value only, and an example of what Holyrood should NOT be like.

    185. Petra says:

      @ NC …. “Deputy Leadership.”

      I see that Iain Blackford has pulled out and I’m glad tbh. He’s a great politician but we need someone with some real grit, a tiger in the tank, such as you say Joanna Cherry …. or Jeanne Freeman or Philippa Whitford, imo.

      On the otherhand we need someone to do a Hitler Act and is that possible when you already have a full time job?

      Hitler Act …. Top dog (wee ginger dug .. Prof Robertson … Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp? etc ) overseeing key underdogs in every Scottish constituency who in turn oversee a mass of people running Yes hubs. Key people being trained to enable them to answer any question put to them and they in turn training all others. Top dog organising and advertising events, producing leaflets, posters and so on for distribution.

      Top dog, top dog … where are you?

    186. louis.b.argyll says:

      Top.



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