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Wings Over Scotland

Blogroll reshuffle

Posted on September 06, 2012 by

Never slow to jump on a bandwagon, Wings Over Scotland would like to announce, after endless media speculation, a long-awaited rearrangement of our popular and much-used links column. We like to keep our blogroll relatively lean (with at most 20, 10 and 5 links per section), because when you link indiscriminately to everyone you might as well just have a single button that leads to Google. We also sigh when we see blogs linking to long-dead sites that haven’t been updated in months or years, or even ones that have been outright deleted. Quality, not quantity, is our benchmark.

Brand-new faces include National Collective (Scottish Politics) and Political Betting (UK Politics). Despite misgivings about the character of their proprietors in both cases, both are valuable and admirable resources. Our other debutant is Mark Steel, whose concise and biting satirical columns in the Independent rarely reference Scotland (and so find themselves in UK Politics), but are unmissable reading all the same for those troubled by the thought that the neoliberal consensus has consumed England entirely.

Returning from exile is Scotland’s finest newspaper journalist Iain Macwhirter (Scottish Politics), after a long period of silence saw his personal blog excised from the list. Lesley Riddoch has fallen by the wayside to make room, not due to any decrease in the merits of her postings but to a marked drop in their frequency, as well as the fact that they can almost all be read in the Scotsman anyway. (For similar ubiquitousness reasons, Gerry Hassan steps aside for the Jimmy Reid Foundation.) We prepare ourselves wearily for the imminent assault on our gender-balance shortcomings.

Meanwhile, in the customary shock promotion, an outbreak of considered and intelligent commentary sees Kevin McKenna elevated, for a probationary period, from Zany Comedy Relief to the Scottish Politics section. (We hope this recategorisation might also persuade Mr McKenna to desist from the “comedy” pieces he occasionally attempts. They are not, and let’s put this delicately, his strongest suit.)

Filling his place in the ranks of the Nutjob Squad is inevitably the increasingly-tragic figure of Ian Smart, for whose ability to function in society by the time the referendum comes round we seriously fear at the current rate of deterioration in his sanity.

We’re still actively seeking sites of considered and worthwhile Scottish debate from a Labour perspective – including Unionist ones – which might reach the same heights as the Tory-leaning Alex Massie in the Spectator (whose features, even when we fundamentally and vehemently disagree with their ideology and content, are almost always thoughtful and well-sourced), but the substantial percentage of previously-unrepresented Labour voters who do back the Yes campaign are now represented by Labour Voters For Independence (Scottish Politics). We’ve chosen their more active Facebook page over the actual website.

If you know of a regularly-updated site – of any political persuasion or none – of serious analysis and comment with regard to Scottish politics, that we’re not currently featuring and should be, let us know.

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    115 to “Blogroll reshuffle”

    1. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      I’d considered the Reid Foundation, but it failed on the grounds of navigability. It’s a horrible mess of a site, but I eventually managed to work out that “Scrutiny” was its actual list of features. Will probably put it in now in the form of a direct link to that section, once I’ve decided what to delete to make space.

      Think Left is just a bit too rambling and shouty.

    2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Okay, the Reid Foundation is in in favour of Gerry Hassan, not on the grounds that Gerry’s become any less good but because pretty much everything he writes also appears in places we already link to, and as he doesn’t participate below the line his own site adds nothing to them.

    3. Doug Daniel says:

      Who’s the proprietor of National Collective, just out of curiosity? I’m finding it’s becoming as invaluable as Bella and Wings when it comes to interesting blogging on Scottish politics.

    4. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Hard to say. Much of their stuff isn’t bylined, which is never a good sign. If their identity is revealed somewhere on the site, it’s nowhere immediately obvious.

      But yeah, as I say in the piece, their content is good stuff regardless of whether I’m impressed by the people behind it or not.

    5. Adrian B says:

      National Collective has grown well over the past couple of years. I only drop in every now and again. I was under the impression – but do not remember the source – that Ross Colquhoun was behind it. Ross certainly seems to be the one behind the graphics. They do list several members however, so it may more of a shared effort.

    6. MajorBloodnok says:

      I like the Reid Foundation – Robin McAlpine writes some interesting articles although he sometimes seems to hanker after the good old days when there used to be a difference between left and right.  He deserves more feedback on his articles but I am not opinionated/informed/smart enough to contribute.

    7. Dave says:

      Hazel Lewry –

      Subrosa –

      There’s 2 that’ll help redress the gender balance. 
      Talk of the Hebrides –

      Auld Acquaintance –

      There’s been a few other start-ups recently but the updates haven’t been too regular.

      My own at fails the “serious analysis and comment” test unfortunately, but that’s cos the unionist targets are too easy to miss.

    8. birnie says:

      Heartily endorse recommendation for Hazel Lewry (Witterings of a Weegiewarbler).  Often original and analytical from the perspective of one who lives abroad.

    9. steve mckay says:

      Kevin McKenna ….. really???  

      If he’s under the ‘complete and utter drivel’ category then maybe.

      Better to keep Gerry Hassan in because even reading the same article in two different places is still vastly more rewarding than wading through through the silly insinuations and giggly humour of a McKenna piece.

    10. CW says:

      How about Andrew Nicoll at the Sun? His weekly column is better than an awful lot of broadsheet equivalents. I would have recommended Duncan Hamilton’s Scotland on Sunday column, but it’s hasn’t appeared for two or three weeks now.

    11. scottish_skier says:

      Talking about bogroll…×150.jpg

      Did they not consider the symbolic implications of this when they came up with the idea?

    12. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “How about Andrew Nicoll at the Sun? His weekly column is better than an awful lot of broadsheet equivalents.”

      Is there a generic link to it?

    13. bellacaledonia says:

      Glad we avoided the chop. National Collective stuff that’s not by-lined is editorial, that’s why.

    14. Adrian B says:

      How about A Birdz Eye View –  

    15. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “National Collective stuff that’s not by-lined is editorial, that’s why.”

      That’s still pretty iffy when there’s nowhere (that I can see) where it tells you who the editor/s is/are.

    16. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “How about A Birdz Eye View –  “

      Don’t hold your breath.

    17. scottish_skier says:

      <innocent face>

       sm753’s Blog?

      </innocent face>  

    18. Adrian B says:

      “That’s still pretty iffy when there’s nowhere (that I can see) where it tells you who the editor/s is/are”

      I was wondering the same about Newsnet Scotland. They mention something about being set up in 2010 by unpaid volunteers from Greenock. Where or who these unnamed volunteers are now is not known nor declared.

    19. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Yup. I’ve said many times I’m deeply uncomfortable with the anonymity and disengagement of NNS, but it seems to work for them.

    20. Holebender says:

      I think you’ll find G. A. Ponsonby (George) is the “anonymous” owner of NNS.

      I remember when a person calling himself George used to post on Our-Scotland, but gave up to start a new project of his own. This started as an occasional e-mail of Scottish news stories the MSM wouldn’t touch, and grew into the NNS website. There is a regular article author there called G. A. Ponsonby and I have put 2 and 2 together and, no doubt, come up with 5!

    21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Yes, I think Mr Ponsonby is the editor of NNS, or one of them. Everything else about it is shrouded in mist.

    22. James McLaren says:

      What is wrong with Munguin’s Republic?

    23. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Nothing at all, it’s a good site. What should I throw out to make space for it, though?

    24. James McLaren says:

      I actually wrote one of the first articles for Newsnet as they had seen , at least the first proprietor, had seen it as a post on someone’s blog. I expanded it into a fulscale article.
      Yes he was from Greenock, with a sad family history. He ran the whole blog himself in those days until he retired but retained the rights to the name and website; see below and Alex Porter.
      I also encouraged Alex Porter, who was then in teaching in Spain to submit economics articles to them and he then moved to the UK with big plans; the rest of that story is history.
      The original Greenockian pulled some people in from Bella but after that it all becomes a big vague.
      I don’t think that the original founder is still involved but I am no sure. I am sure that Alex Porter is not.

      I did know who the original owner was and have exchanged e-mails with him. My lips are sealed.

    25. James McLaren says:

      Rev Stu
      the Scotsman?

    26. Dave says:

      Or you could lose Tory Phone Box?  Why boost their pagerank with a link?  Also, why don’t links open in a separate window rather than taking folk off the site completely?

    27. Adrian B says:

      The Scotsman get my vote – it should have been in Zany comedy relief anyway.

      Munguin’s Republic has some  good ‘random photographs’ posted on Monday. Good for a laugh. 


    28. James McLaren says:

      Right click on link and you have an option of opening, opening in a new tab, opening in a new window and other options———–in Firefox anyway

    29. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Stu, looking at all the great and indeed some of the NOT so great suggestions being posted here perhaps you might want to rethink your 10 and 10 policy and maybe expand it to 15 and 15 or even 20 and 20. 😀

    30. Dave says:


      Aye – I know.  🙂  A lot of other folk might not though as the first instinct is just to click.  There’s a setting in the WordPress Admin panel that allows you to set the “open in new window” on every link.  Seems a waste to send traffic off the site as they might not come back.  🙂

    31. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Sorry I’m O/T here but it appears that IPSA have released the latest sets of expenses claims by our “beloved” at Westminster.  Here. courtesy of Guido Fawkes, ,is the list of the top 5 claimants!

      Greg Mulholland, LibDem, £188,783
      Stephen Gilbert, LibDem, £185,811
      Alistair Carmichael*, LibDem, £185,389
      Brian Donohoe, Labour, £182,003
      Willie Bain, Labour, £180,923

      Carmichael has to fly to Orkney and Shetland so has an excuse for high travel expenses.
      If you want to check your own M.P. then you can do so here.
      Yet another example of why we are better together…….NOT!

    32. cynicalHighlander says:

      Personal Rant.
      There seems to be an element in condemning  NNS presumably because they have been blocked or they cannot use it like a blog or a forum etc.   It was spawned from BWB blogs to counter the Pacific Quay Labour bias in what and how they reported facts.
      They guys who set it up had there own careers to defend so stop knocking something which has been a force to counter the MSM just because it doesn’t suit ones own self interest.
      I have no commercial interest in the site or even know who the authors are but find it easier to read all the comments now rather than missing a lot because of the volume that were being generated.   Argue after Autumn 2014 not before as the hill hasn’t been crested yet.
      Rant over.

    33. Arbroath 1320 says:

      First we had Recession mark I
      Now we have Recession mark II
      Arriving soon Recession mark III
      This quote is taken from the Huffington Post.
      However the economic outlook for the UK has been slashed more than any other country in the G7 bloc, prompting fears that Britain could enter another recession, reported Sky News.

      Unquestionably the reason why we should remain part of the U.K.

    34. James McLaren says:

      Arbroath 1320
      I am not convinced that we are in a double dip recession.
      If you factor in the injection of QE I think you may find that the apparent stop to the downward slide was in fact a false one.
      We are in the self same 1st recession and still on our way down, despite the printing presses.
      Be very afraid of Osborne. He hasn’t a clue and more worryingly doesn’t seem to care so long as his neo Lib policies are rammed into the economy, whatever the consequences.

      He’s alright, Jack and will continue to do so.

    35. Adrian B says:


      I wasn’t knocking NNS for anything less than the fact that no one has put their name to it.

      I make comments reasonably regularly on NNS. Since the changed the time between comments it has killed off a lot of banter that he site was great for. They haven’t had the problem that the Scotsman had for months where hundreds of stupid comments would appear very quickly. Given the security issue that they were faced with, they clearly had to do something to safeguard the site. Comments can now be made every 15 mins, sadly although many people that regularly made comments went over to a new site, they have lost a number of good commenter’s. However some that were lurkers are starting to make comments.

      NNS is still by far the best site for the number of articles that it manages to post on a daily/weekly basis and will remain an important site for at least the next two years and probably beyond. 

    36. Arbroath 1320 says:

      James I am not an expert on economics, I only go on what I read around the net. However I will bow to your greater knowledge. The thing is no matter whether it is recession I, II or III it is ALL unnecessary. ALL that is/was required was to have suitably QUALIFIED individuals in the right posts at the right time. What we actually got was NUMPTY 1, NUMPTY 2 and NUMPTY3! The main point I was trying to make was that immaterial of which recession number we are in we are undoubtedly still better off being Independent.
      on a wee aside here is yet snother “positive” of the union!

    37. James T says:

      I don’t think this is a recession. I think we are in a Depression. Recessions don’t last 4 years, and this isn’t one country being affected; it is the whole world. Recessions usually only affect a few, not everyone. Even the Chinese are slowly being affected by it – their economy is now slowing down.

      I think the media, and the governments of the world are happy to use the word ‘Recession’. If they did say ‘Depression’ then I think the Market Economies, as well as the Stock Markets would plummet even more. So, they use the softer term – Recession.

      Recessions are meant to be 2 quarters entering a period of no growth. We have been through 15 quarters you could say over the last 4 years. How many months were there of any real growth? Hardly any.

      I’m guessing that we won’t see any signs of recovery until 2016, though according to some analysts, they are talking 2020. Recessions don’t last 12 years. That would be 48 quarters of no, or very slow growth. Believe me, if it does take to 2020 before we are out of this, then we will seriously have been in a Depression.

    38. Silverytay says:

      Well said.
      Now that the real war is about to start ? this is not the time to start knocking our own troops .
      Only by putting on a united front can we hope to achieve our ultimate aim .
      We are quick enough to exploit any weakness in the unionist camp and they are desperate for signs of splits in the yes camp to exploit .
      O/T    I hope that the yes campaign have some banners at hampden on Saturday and Tuesday
      Two wins for Scotland would be a nice way of cheering us up after all the Brit Fest we have had to put up with .

    39. Juteman says:

      I don’t want to knock NNS, but it really annoys me when they post arcticles on censorship on the BBC..

      Despite using their contact form twice to ask why i have been blocked, they haven’t had the courtesy to reply.  

    40. James T says:

      The problem we have with the ‘Recession’ is that the Tory Rich Boys in Westminster don’t want to change the system that caused all this. Back in the 1930’s Roosevelt created the ‘New Deal’ or 3R’s (Relief for the unemployed and poor; Recovery of the economy to normal levels; and Reform of the financial system to prevent a repeat depression).
      When you read the third ‘R’…it’s exactly that that they don’t want to change. The Coalition (or rather the Tories) have done nothing to regulate the Banks, or the Financial sector. And you can bet your boots, that come January, the Financial Sector will once more hand out £1 billion’s worth of bonuses (reward on a still failing system).

      Heavy investment into building projects is what is really needed. Whether it is tearing down badly run down areas, and building new homes and facilities (shops, amenities), and at leats try to employ people into these new projects, or post projects (shops). This in turn should put money into peoples pockets, and then the people will spend to boost the economy. The government needs to take very long view of this, and borrow far into the future on little or no interest paymenst on the ‘loan’ to fund these projects.

      I don’t believe taxing everything in sight is going to help now. Fuel is through the roof, and food is going to get more expensive (failed harvests in the US and Russia).

      I think George Osborne has only one plan. To tax the people to the hilt to pay back the debt. He does not have a Plan B. He will not tax the rich, or force them to give up bonuses, shares, or high wage increases. The Banks will NOT be broken up. In fact, if anything, I honestly see a second bailout at some point  because the Banks have NOT been regulated…even after 4 years from the original crisis. The banks have it all so sown up. All household Bills literally need to be paid by a bank account. No one gets paid cash in hand anymore; you need a bank account. How a 2nd bailout will happen…no idea. But these illegal dealings that some of them have been involved in (money laundering for the Iranian regine – what !!!, dodgy oil deals….god knows what else).

    41. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Just a wee warning to all those ardent Newsnicht viewers. I believe Ozzy Osborne will be on the programme tonight.
      You HAVE been warned! 😆

    42. Silverytay says:

      I was lurking around newsnet for over a year before I started posting on it .
      I only started posting because of the way they were heading and I just wanted to add
      my voice of dissent to that of the regular posters . 
      While newsnet is not on a par with what it was when I first started visiting it , it is as Adrian B says still a good site .
      I just think that now the phoney war is almost finished and we are beginning to move into the real battle , we are all going to have to be more careful on what we say about pro independence sites and about ourselves . I am the first to admit that I myself often go O.T.T 
      We don’t want the unionists to see any dissent in the ranks .
      Let the bitter together campaign be the one the tears itself apart . 

    43. Adrian B says:


      Completely O/T

      Every time that I see your Tag it reminds me of the Silverytay fish and chip shop in Newport-on-Tay where everything is made to order. Very Very good chippy.   

    44. cynicalHighlander says:

      Adrian B I wan’t pointing the finger at anyone in particular just trying to point out that there is no point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater as our presence in the MSM in nill and we just have to accept certain constraints within the hierarchy of NNS no matter how hard one has bite ones tongue as the end prize will be worth it.
       Silverytay Thanks I just felt someone had to say something on their behalf as they are time constrained volunteers as are the moderators.
      For educational entertainment.

    45. Juteman says:

      I hear what you are saying Silverytay, and i thought long and hard about posting my last post.
      I don’t like hypocrisy though, and don’t want the nationalist media to be just as bad as the unionist media. And courtesy doesn’t cost anything.
      I won’t say anymore on the subject.

    46. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Sorry for going O/T AGAIN! 😀
      I’ve just read this over on the Scotsman by Jim Sillars. He makes, I think, an interesting argument  FOR indicting Blair on war crimes in Scotland.
      I wonder if the Scottish government or even a back bencher will follow this piece up with a debate in Holyrood about how best to achieve the indictment of Blair. If the government CAN follow this up with the appropriate legal amendments I wonder how the MSM and BBC will cover the trial, if at all!

    47. Adrian B says:


      I know you were not pointing the finger, I was in front of a computer and able to post a reply to your concerns.

      I would defend NNS to the hilt, despite the misgivings that some have shown due to a lack of patience. NNS should improve communication as that has been an issue on a number of occasions.

      I do not know how many help out at NNS, but they have a good site that gets a lot of traffic. I suppose they will have a small dedicated crew that work tirelessly just so the site can exist.

      Thanks for the story of stuff link, I will get a proper look when I have more time.

    48. Jen says:

      Hello Everyone

      I like National Collective and Weegie Warbler for interesting points of view and insightful analysis.  Plus I like NewsNetScotland for informed articles and the people who comment under the articles.  There information is educational!  I don’t think knocking NNS is the way to go.  I rarely comment on any sites bit of a lurker however I gain the information needed to help the cause of a yes vote.  

      There are many people like me, who don’t necessarily know all the ins and outs of politics or the economy but none the less, I’m a nationalist and whole heartedly believe in Independence for Scotland and her people therefore I don’t think giving Unionists a chink in the armour to chip at is worthwhile.

      For the ordinary person, NNS is an excellent resource because of the commentators, sometimes they agree, sometimes they don’t however on the whole the discussions are relevant and the allow the Yes side to shine.  Perhaps when people are so close to issues with knowledge and debates they find it hard to see what the ordinary person does.


    49. Adrian B says:

      Arbroath 1320

      Your getting close to the point were you should be thinking about setting up your own blog to comment on the days news feed from the press.   🙂

      I read most of this article earlier, not sure how much political appetite there is in pursuing Blair for his war crimes. I would like it to happen however but Blair has gained many friends of influence in the hierarchy of officialdom and above that may be able to keep him out of reach of the judiciary.      

    50. Jen says:

      Oh forgot to add, when talking to others I point people in the direction of NNS and Wings Over Scotland together with National Collective as information source points.  Most people have come back with positive comments about info offered.

    51. Adrian B says:

      Hi Jen,

      I am glad to hear that you have found a number of useful sources of news, information, point of view and culture. NNS was the main site that I read for a number of months before logging on to make comments and discuss points with people.

      I hope that you will find the confidence to comment more often. its good fun to participate and starts feeling quite worthwhile very quickly. Start of slowly agreeing or asking simple questions to find you feet and before long who knows you might be writing your own articles.

      Again, thank you for your comments.

      Adrian B 

    52. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Adrian, I agree that Blair has a lot of “influential” friends, however, I think most if not all of them are more concerned with Westminster and what lies South of the border. I don’t think that too many live in Scotland, or even have any idea about what the feeling is concerning Blair and his lies!I also believe that IF we can get this taken to a logical conclusion then I believe that it would stand Scotland in good stead in the International community.
      I still hold the belief that the al Megraghi fiasco did Scotland and Scots law a disservice. There is still a great deal to come out about the whole Megraghi affair, unfortunately  getting ALL the details is going to be extremely difficult. I am one who holds the opinion that despite court case being carried out under Scots law the whole thing was “controlled” from Westminster. This above all else is despicable in my view.
      Perhaps it might need an approach from one or more of the Scottish electorate to write to their M.S.P. to get the ball actually rolling on this but I have the utmost confidence in OUR government that given the interest that STILL exists surrounding the Blair war crimes scenario we CAN achieve a result, without ANY interference from Westminster. 
      Oh, I can just see it now. Blair, in chains walking through the front gates of Greenock prison! 😆

    53. TYRAN says:

      Hilarious image of Better Together’s Osborne and Lamont

    54. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I see she found the right colour tie to wear! 😆

    55. Adrian B says:

      Arbroath 1320

      Before I reply about Blair, one question that I have to ask is how do you manage to add the smile faces? 

    56. Arbroath 1320 says:

      If you type : followed by lol followed by : you’ll get 😆
      If you type  : followed by D you’ll get 😀
      Just make sure you leave a SPACE between the end of your sentence before putting up your smiley. If you don’t you’ll just get the :   lol   : at the end of your sentence. 😆
      Hope you understand my bleathering on this. 😀

    57. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Sorry folks but me compass is going doo lally tonight. 😆
      Found this over on Facebook.
      Unfortunately the story has not yet reached the on line edition yet. I wonder if it will EVER reach the on line edition?  😀

    58. Adrian B says:

      Thanks Arbroath, you learn something new every day. Your instructions are clear, now lets see if I can follow them. 😆

    59. bellacaledonia says:

      Sorry to hear people knocking NNS and National Collective. A bit of solidarity here would be good. Theses are serious wel’ organised imaginative group blogs and alt indy sources. I ‘imagine’ people have good reasons for anonymity.

    60. Adrian B says:

      Its one thing having evidence against Blair, its quite something else to get him to answer questions. you just have to look at how he brushed everything off at the Levinson Enquiry. Many have described the aura of power around him when he is in the room and this clearly puts questioners off asking deep probing questions.

      I am not sure if now is the best time for a back bench SNP member to take this on. It might end up being a poisoned chalice to them and a strong SNP majority government getting ready to build a case. Blair has influential friends around the globe, not just in the old Westminster arena. You can put money on the barrage of negative press that would be directed at Alex Salmond.

      I do want this man charged for his crimes. I marched against his war. It was the first march that I had taken part in, but I was enraged at the prospect of him taking my country to War, a war with no reason it seemed at the time. Blair was really going for it. He had decided that already and was trying to make out that evidence was available that together with Bush, war was inevitable. Not in my name  it wasn’t.

      Blair on a long term visit to Greenock prison. Thats a thought! 😆 

    61. Arbroath 1320 says:

      I take your point Adrian.
      Independence is the main concern for ALL of us between now and 2014 and I accept your point that trying to bring Blair to court would be an unnecessary side show. I do also accept that Blair’s”friends” do not just inhabit London and the S.E. However, are they “friends” of Blair because he has been “found” not guilty of war crimes in London. If at some future point he was to brought to book in a Scottish court how many of these “friends” would still stand bedside him I wonder.
      I think the best thing that we could do with regards to this issue is to file it under “Future Legal Possibilities.” 😀

    62. Adrian B says:

      Arbroath 1320,

      I would keep it close to hand. As we have seen tonight Salmonds long term strategy is paying handsome dividends at the moment. We need to keep an eye on this story for it may well resurface a number of times in the not so distant future.

      That Scotsman front page has me beaming from ear to ear. I wonder if its worth having a wee glass of wine as a little celebration. 😆 

    63. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Just don’t go too far Adrian. 😀
      Remember, EVERY day brings ANOTHER “exciting” story about the POSITIVE reasons FOR Independence! 😆
      You have to ask the question though. How much longer can the MSM carry on with their Anti Independence garbage BEFORE the constant daily breaking of GOOD news stories about Independence wears them down and the MSM, or at least some of the MSM, turn tail and actually start to OPENLY support Independence! 😀

    64. Adrian B says:

      No I am only having the one and it’s not a big glass either.

      You have to ask the question though. How much longer can the MSM carry on with their Anti Independence garbage BEFORE the constant daily breaking of GOOD news stories about Independence wears them down and the MSM, or at least some of the MSM, turn tail and actually start to OPENLY support Independence!  

      Well there is still two years to go yet. The MSM will print probably continue pushing the negative nonsense to challenge the SNP majority government. Every now and a gain we will get more balanced pieces and sometimes we will get really good pieces for the YES side. I cannot really see any of the papers coming out in favour as being Pro Indy. Chance would be a fine thing.

      Anyway onwards and upwards… 

    65. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Thing is Adrian, when you look at some of the sales figures for the Scottish MSM, covered by Stu in an earlier article, they are ALL heading in one direction…..DOWN!
      At some point in time either the editors, or the press owners, are going to realise that being Anti Independence is NOT working and as a result their sales figures continue dropping off the edge of a cliff. If for no other reason other than to save their title/job they will, I’m sure, take the “drastic step”, in their eyes,  of “swapping” sides.

    66. Adrian B says:

      Arbroath 1320

      Its not just the Scottish MSM sales that are in decline. Newspaper and magasine sales worldwide are in steep decline. The new media is online. Newspapers like the Times have disappeared behind paywalls. The Herald has done the same, but poorly as you only need to clean out your browsers memory to access the herald again.

      People get news, tv, music, films and information largely online these days. Apple were quick to create their iTunes app and iPod, then came the iTunes store for music downloads, they stole the march on the competition, but now Sony, Microsoft and many others are doing the same thing.

      The personal computer, tablet and mobile phones have morphed into mobile communication devices capable more than we could have dreamed about 15 years ago. Modern smart phones let you watch tv from the BBC and sky, YouTube and others. Twitter has taken over from texting for many. News that happens now is viewable now. if you buy a newspaper then it has yesterdays news in it.

      Technology is changing and its changing fast, these products are evolving at such a rate that they are causing problems for TV manufactures and TV program makers.

      What that newspapers moving to the new digital media are trying to capture is advertising revenue. Google and Facebook are after the same revenue, but both of these companies have something that many other companies do not yet have and that is your own personal data. They know what you like and they use that to direct advertising directly to you.

      If I am reading an article on NNS on renewable energy or the oil industry, then I get corresponding adverts on the page for oil investments and renewable energy. I was looking at some power tools on line the other day, I am still getting power tool  adverts in my e-mail host page.  The technology is quite basic at present, but it will get better.

      The MSM largely create anti type stories because of the number of pro indy people on line looking for news – put something controversial out there on the Herald, Scotsman, Guardian or Telegraph pages, there will be plenty of anti indy comments,but you will also guarantee a large number of page visits from the Indy supporters to counteract the anti sides comments. Its the nunber of page visits that these stories generate that creates the advertising revenue for the papers.

      Stu has reported as many others do when the figures are released another dramatic cut in sales. Some people are certainly put off to either buy and/or looking at these publications online, however until two thirds of these publications actually close completely then there will continue to be to many publications chasing an ever decreasing market. I think there is space for a couple of quality papers and a small handful of sun type papers mainly bought for sport largely by tradesmen to read in their van at lunchtime.

      The whole point of the press is to be balanced. In the UK it has always been politically driven. The best that I think well will see, is closer to the event a more balanced approach. Remember they are good at reprinting Labour press releases and spin as fact. Don’t expect Labour to give up on this important avenue of spin, nonsense and general mudslinging any time soon. Take the rough with the smooth we don’t want to live in a country that prints nothing but pro indy stuff. That would stifle debate just as much and might lead to complacency.  

    67. clochoderic says:

      Willie Bain makes 65 grand a year and claims 180 grand in expenses – so how come he canny afford a suit that fits him?

    68. scottish_skier says:

      Enter stage right Gideon in Glasgow (who is of course running the Tory show).   

      Time to start really getting the Scots riled up.  2015 is approaching and Scots MPs need to be gone from Westminster by then….


    69. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:


      James McLaren says:
      September 6, 2012 at 6:56 pm

      Right click on link and you have an option of opening, opening in a new tab, opening in a new window and other options———–in Firefox anyway


      If you wish to open any link in another tab merely hold the Ctrl key while you click on the attachment.

      Its a great way to open up links and attachments without navigating away from the story you are on.

    70. James McLaren says:

      How about Alan Trench and Dvolution Matters. An academic and very readable blog.
      He has, of late been quiet on Scottish matters and has blogged more on Welsh devolution.
      However he is back and well worth the read.

    71. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “How about Alan Trench and Dvolution Matters. An academic and very readable blog.”

      Devolution Matters has been there since day one, under UK Politics.

    72. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Sorry to hear people knocking NNS and National Collective. A bit of solidarity here would be good.”

      I don’t think anyone else can be accused of lacking solidarity where NNS is concerned – it’s shown not the slightest interest in “solidarity” with the rest of the Scottish blogosphere, or indeed in interacting with it in any way whatsoever. That said, we’re not “knocking” them – both sites are on the blogroll, which is an endorsement.

      But I’m always, always deeply mistrustful of anonymity. Secrecy breeds suspicion, and if you’re not even prepared to put your name to what you believe, why should anyone else be persuaded? I was also disturbed by NC’s announcement of itself as a vehicle primarily for youth activism this week. The site makes no mention of age discrimination in its “mission statements”, and if it’s meant solely or chiefly for young people it should say so.

    73. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ” perhaps you might want to rethink your 10 and 10 policy and maybe expand it to 15 and 15 or even 20 and 20″

      No, that’s the whole point. If you present people with a list of 10 links they’ll likely click on several. Present them with 100 and they tend to click on none.

    74. Appleby says:

      Newsnet Scotland is too heavily into censorship and stifiling debate and tries too hard to out Scotsman the Scotsman and ends up off-putting to many they should be trying to attract and convert. It also somewhat painfully shows up the less than professional nature of it at times too. Preaching to the converted and allowing only pre-approved groupthink through the filter is not going to win anything. I want a site I can link to that gives high quality articles and thoughtful comments with free debates to win people over instead. We don’t need a mirror of the dismal Scottish media for the Yes camp.
      That’s why NNS leaves such a bad taste in my mouth at times and why I go there less and less often. I’d also be very wary of suggesting a visit there by people on the fence or in the No camp. Swivel-eyed groupthink and heavy handed moderation is more likely to chase them off of what good parts there are there.
      Putting your fingers in your ears and pretending that nothing is wrong (as some here would suggest we all do under various guises or excuses) will not help matters. That will mean nothing will improve and NNS would only slide downwards on the same path. That is NNS, the Unionist/No camp and the Scottish media’s methods so far that have lead to all that nasty business we are all so familiar with in each of their own back yards. Unfriendly, censorship, bias, groupthink and dogma. MSM and Unionist past should not become our own future or path. Trying to out Scotsman the Scotsman is not a Good Thing, any more than we’d want to see the Yes team try to go the path of endless fear, mud and negative campaigning.
      There’s good on NNS and that’s why I’d care enough to criticise them, rather than just ignore for good (as I would with the real turds in the MSM in Scotland and the UK), but it is a shame and frustrating to see them spoil something that could be so much better and to see them follow the very same path of the worst people we were hoping to see opposition to. Like getting rid of one tyrant to see another replace them.

    75. Appleby says:

      “No, that’s the whole point. If you present people with a list of 10 links they’ll likely click on several. Present them with 100 and they tend to click on none.”
      I’d agree with that. When I see a wall of links on a blog or site I avoid it. I don’t need to see someone’s entire bookmarks folder.

    76. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “the Scotsman?”

      The Scotsman link has to stay, because it’s now serving the purpose of the previous links to Gerry Hassan and Lesley Riddoch, as well as others.

    77. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I’d agree with that. When I see a wall of links on a blog or site I avoid it. I don’t need to see someone’s entire bookmarks folder.”

      Yup. I wish I could keep the main list down to 10 as well, to be honest, but that’d require leaving too much out. The Scottish blogosphere is like Scottish football – too many teams 😉

    78. James McLaren says:

      Get rid of Rangers and Celtic?
      The Herald and Scotsman; cuts down on their revenues.
      Every little bit helps.

    79. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Or you could lose Tory Phone Box?  Why boost their pagerank with a link?”

      As I’ve said before, Wings Over Scotland isn’t intended to be a support group for preaching to the converted. We’re openly and unequivocally pro-independence, but we want to give people access to the whole discussion, which is why we tried to reach out with The Straight Debates, with sadly not much success.

      I’ve rejected contributions from people that were just anti-Unionist ranting, because the goal of this site is to provide sober, reasonable, well-argued and properly-sourced counterpoints to the lies and skewed misrepresentations often found in the Scottish MSM and blogosphere, chiefly for the benefit of those still trying to make up their minds. There’s a reason I asked people the other day to “talk as if an undecided voter is reading” in the comments.

      People can, of course, debate whether WingsLand is succeeding in its goals. It’s easy to slip into tribalism, especially in the face of contant provocation from the other side, and especially if you’re aiming for an accessible, punchy tabloid style rather than the more high-minded ponderings of the likes of Pat Kane and Gerry Hassan. (If Ian Smart’s blog the other day got anything right, it was that the audience for that stuff is probably pretty niche, admirable as it all is.) And tribalism has its place sometimes – I’m happy to aim a few easy shots at the Unionists for fun once in a while and leave the official Yes campaign to keep its hands clean.

      But those are nevertheless the goals of this site, and I hope it lives up to them at least most of the time. If the day comes when I think I’m only speaking to people who are already voting Yes, I’ll pack it in, because then I’ll be wasting my time for nothing.

    80. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Appleby: my feelings on NNS almost exactly. A Scotland where the Scotsman is replaced with something that has all its flaws but none of its redeeming qualities (the Scotsman DOES regularly print pro-independence features, albeit they’re in the minority) is not a Scotland worth fighting for.

    81. Morag says:

      Arbroath 1320 posted:
      I still hold the belief that the al Megraghi fiasco did Scotland and Scots law a disservice. There is still a great deal to come out about the whole Megraghi affair, unfortunately  getting ALL the details is going to be extremely difficult. I am one who holds the opinion that despite court case being carried out under Scots law the whole thing was “controlled” from Westminster. This above all else is despicable in my view.

      Well, since Lockerbie happened in December 1988 and was investigated from then until November 1991 (when the indictments were issued against Megrahi and Fhimah), obviously it was controlled by Westminster.  Holyrood didn’t exist.

      If you examine the evidence the cops had in detail, you find something very very interesting.  That evidence, as they accepted it at that time, clearly shows the bomb being introduced at Heathrow airport, beyond any reasonable doubt.  The bizarre part is that the cops didn’t analyse the evidence in that way.  They appear pre-programmed to ignore the compelling Heathrow evidence, and even as that got more compelling, they turned away from it and insisted the bomb had flown in on the Frankfurt flight.

      Was this deliberately orchestrated, or was it simply incompetence and a huge blind spot?  I have no idea.  The fact remains, however, that all the evidence necessary to show the bomb was introduced at Heathrow was presented to the Fatal Accident Inquiry in 1990, but the sheriff also ignored it.  It appears (from his own published findings) that he had been given a nod and a wink to say that the cops had incontrovertible evidence they couldn’t present at that stage, showing the bomb did indeed originate on a flight going into Frankfurt.  So would he please find to that effect.  He did.

      Nevertheless, it’s quite possible this was all a result of police incompetence and too-clever-by-half.  The consequence though, was that they hared off to Malta on a wild goose chase, where they finally caught a couple of wild geese and proceeded to fit them up.  Again, was it orchestrated, or was it simple human error?

      The documents indicate that in 1999 when the Crown prosecution were supplied with the evidence to plan their case against the Libyans (who were by then in custody in the specially-built facility in the Netherlands), they realised all that.  They realised that the evidence as it had stood for ten years clearly demonstrated the bomb being introduced at Heathrow, not Malta.  But what could they do?  Throw in the towel?  Not likely.  It appears they decided to construct a different scenario from the one that had been accepted since 1989, to try to rescue the possibility of a Frankfurt transfer.  To this end they omitted to lead some absolutely central evidence, and if you read the Opinion of the Court to my mind it’s glaringly obvious there’s stuff they simply aren’t telling us and it’s not hard to figure out why.

      The real conundrum is why the judges at Camp Zeist accepted this fairy-story.  But I still don’t think we can say they were being controlled from outside.  I think the concept that the cops had got it wrong from about day nine (30th December 1988) and the ten years of international persecution of Libya was founded on a huge mistake was simply too appalling for them to contemplate.  So they didn’t.

      What is it they say?  Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity?  The more I look at the Lockerbie evidence, the more it seems to exemplify exactly that maxim.

    82. Arbroath 1320 says:

      “perhaps you might want to rethink your 10 and 10 policy and maybe expand it to 15 and 15 or even 20 and 20?

      Sorry Stu I was trying, and failing as per usual, to be be a bit tongue in cheek with my comment. Oops!
      With regards to the comments about NNS I was once a regular commenter on that site. During that time there was a lot of good information passing around but also a good degree of light hearted banter. This is something I will ALWAYS feel that is needed in ANY conversation, too much of the HEAVY stuff can turn a blog, in my view, into a very heavy piece of work to work through. I was eventually sent to the “naughty step” because I called it straight, in my view, when commenting on Moore. Someone at NNS didn’t like my use of the word ("Tractor" - Ed) and I was sidelined. Later other posts of mine that eventually made it up onto the site later disappeared. When asked I was informed that they wanted to cut down on the humour and light banter as a lot of site visitors only went onto the site once a day and then only went as far as the humour. Well that did it for me, no more posts on NNS. The comment about only going as far as the humour was the last straw, based on the fact that the “humour” as they put it was spread through out the posts. It was not always at the beginning, nor was it always at the end. Not only that but I know there were a LOT of people who visited the site enjoyed the humour and light hearted banter that went on! I do still visit the site but NEVER to post a comment just to read an article.
      Morag, thanks for your thoughts on Lockerbie and I agree with most of what you say. The one area I might disagree with you is with regards to the police and judges. I have the greatest respect for these organisations and I don’t think that they would carry out this incredible investigation and trial leading to the indictments  WITHOUT a great deal of interference from Westminster. In fact I would NOT be surprised to find the trail of lies and deceit going all the way back to Washington! If my memory serves me right Libya was NOT on the “Christmas card” list of the Western world, well at the list of Westminster and Washington anyway.
      If you haven’t already seen this programme I would highly recommend its viewing. The investigator in the programme is able, without too much difficult I might add, to blow massive holes in the “evidence” used against al Megraghi.

    83. Morag says:

      I don’t think there is a Lockerbie documentary I haven’t watched, on multiple occasions.

      I agree there was input from the CIA, that is indisputable.  They gave Megrahi’s name and photographs to the investigation in the first place, and urged Harry Bell to see if Tony Gauci might agree he was the clothes purchaser.  They were keen to implicate Libya, for sure.

      Ronald Regan was keen to implicate Libya on 26th December 1988 of course.  They just had to back off on that because the circumstantial evidence pointing to the PFLP-GC was so strong.  However, that trail faded out into the dust of Malta, in the end.  The cops were convinced the bomb had gone on board on Malta, and they couldn’t find any evidence of the PFLP-GC in Malta so much as stepping on a crack in the pavement.  What to do?  The Libya theory was inserted into that vacuum, and it was discovered that a Libyan was indeed stepping on some cracks in the pavement at Malta that morning.  Bingo.

      However, was that some grand conspiracy?  I’m not convinced.  I think the cops missing the real point of introduction in early 1989 was either pure incompetence, or a pretty mundane conspiracy aimed at not implicating Heathrow and the BAA in the atrocity.  The later framing of Libya simply took advantage of that, and may have been a simple matter of opportunistically fitting up someone who happened to be looking suspicious in the right place at the right time.  Not good, obviously, but no more a grand conspiracy than the conviction of the Birmingham Six.

    84. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Sorry Stu but I’m going O/T again.
      Looks like wee Ozzy Osborne is hitting the panic button AGAIN! 😀
      I wonder if he is beginning to believe all the old hype that has been put out by Westminster over the years about Scotland’s oil, you know the hype….”your oil is running out!”
      If I’m right then I believe that with all the recent U turns carried out by Ozzy with regards to the oil industry then he will be giving out MORE money than he planned to rake in with his “last minute” tax hikes in last years budget.

    85. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Is it me or has the Bitter Together crowd lost the plot completely. VASI have a piece about an item on the Bitter Facebook page.
      I ALWAYS maintain that you know you have WON the argument when the opposition start with the name calling and throwing of insults. Well from the looks of this on the Bitter Facebook page I’d say they’ve lost the plot completely!

    86. Ron says:

      Apologies for being O/T, but I think this is worthy of the ‘Friday Smile’.

      I wonder if we will have similar controversial issues come independence?

    87. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Berwick springs to mind! 😆

    88. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      Hello Arb,

      It seems to be a mild form of flattery to the Rev’s own Alex Salmond Dictator Comparison Bingo…

      …except missing the point that the Rev was referring to published quotes from politicians and braodcasters and not just random punters on the net…

      …oh, and also that the things in his one were actually said by Unionists and not just some random insults that the Unionists are convinced people call them.

      Interestingly however it looks like many of the comments on the thread have been removed. In fact I read through several threads and many reference posters that have dissappeared. Free and open debate allowed then…

    89. Doug says:

      I was banned from their Facebook page after the whole ‘Olympic Medals = Better Together’ malarkey for politely pointing out (in detail) that their argument was a non-sequitor and that we may have had MORE representation (and an unknowable increase or decrease in medals) and also that it was largely irrelevant to the greater independence debate.

      I would have preferred it if they had gone to the effort of shooting me down in flames and letting my comment stand humiliated by their superior logic. However…

    90. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Free and open debate Scott, aye that’ll be the day!
      They only believe in free and open debate so long as you agree with their point of view!
      The minute you start to question them or raise an alternative view, piff puff poof, your gone from the comments! 😆

    91. Erchie says:

      My problem with NNS is that they harbour a sockpuppetting outfit calling itself the “SDA” and which appears tobe one bloke in Vienna, with a high opinion ofhimself and a few accounts.

      Given that the SDA seem to be “UKIP without the UK” you think they’d warrant a good hard look at, but no.


    92. Juteman says:

      I’ve thought that too, Erchie. There seems to be a lot of SDA folk on NNS,  and they never seem to have any problems posting.

    93. Morag says:

      Hmmm, yes.  I wasn’t welcomed when I pointed out Mr. Wilkie’s lack of credibility and support.  The guy seems to attract adulation from a small band of gullible idiots, who then defend him vigorously.  If I see “maisiedotts” once more gushing about how wonderful he is and how he should be given Scotland’s highest honours for his work in forcing Blair to deliver devolution, I’ll probably throw up.

      I note sm753 has a page debunking some of his utterances.  I never thought I’d agree with sm753 about anything, but in this case I merely remark that he hasn’t gone nearly far enough.

    94. James McLaren says:

      I have a near neighbour, now retired and still living in Vienna.
      He was a diplomat and has never heard of Mr Wilkie, and nor have the people he has asked.

    95. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Whenever I was on NNS and reading the posts I would immediately pass over any post that claimed the  S.D.A. had the answers on how we should best proceed regarding Independence and its aftermath. In fact I found some of their stuff quite worrying actually.

    96. Morag says:

      I had a run in with him about five years ago, on the old Herald comments pages.  I pointed out the absence of evidence for what he was claiming, and queried the fact that he was telling people to go to Edinburgh to read documents he had deposited with the National Library to prove his case.  Some people were impressed that the Library was holding such documents, but in fact anyone can deposit anything they like there.  I could deposit the minutes of our monthly knitting circle if I wanted to.  Even though it doesn’t exist and I can’t knit.

      There is a list of the titles of these documents on his web page, and there’s nothing there but letters he himself has sent to various bodies, bald notes acknowledging receipt, and various letters of support from various luminaries.  Also basic documents such as the text of the Treaty of Union, and apparently a map of the route his party took to get to the UN Committee meeting, and some holiday snaps they took on the way.  There is no sign of anyone having done anything at all as a result of the representations he says he made.

      I pointed out that the internet is a wonderful thing, and that the way to gain credibility would be to publish the documents online for everyone to see.  This didn’t go down well.  He became abusive, and apparently started cyberstalking me.  He misidentified me as a journalist, and an acquaintance of Alistair Campbell, and started going on about the amazing scoop I would get if I took him seriously.  It was all going to hit the headlines any minute, you see.  Five years ago.

      I remained unimpressed, he then claimed to know who I really was (don’t know if he was right or not), and threatened to take me to court for defaming him.  Lovely chap.

      Clearly the man is a deluded fantasist, but it’s disturbing how many people can’t see through the posing.

    97. Alex McI says:

      I have been questioning SDA supporters on NNS on this thread.

      I didn’t know who they were, and pointed out that I had asked guys at work who they thought they were, as I say I was met with blank stares, a couple of guys thought they were the kid on terrorist organisation , the Busby guy was linked to, I did however find out that Niall Aslen who    
      done the GERS 2006 thing was their financial guru, this kind of made me think that they must have some credibility, as I was impressed with his stuff. Most independence supporters base lots of their arguments on his research do they not. Jeez I’m confused again.

    98. scottish_skier says:

      Concur on concerns about NNS. I’m still visiting, but less.

      Hence I’m clogging up Rev Stu’s blog with my musings these days.

    99. Juteman says:

      The SDA claim to be a Scottish (Conservative) right of centre ‘group’ who will form a party in an independent Scotland. They also claim the credit for devolution, and inventing the deep fried Mars Bar. 🙂

    100. Arbroath 1320 says:

      ” They also claim the credit for devolution, and inventing the deep fried Mars Bar.”

      Does the Mars company know about this Juteman?
      I was always led to believe that it was the Carron Fish Bar in Stonehaven that “invented” the deep fried Mars bar. 😆
      Looks like the Mars company have been communicating with the “wrong” people. 😀

    101. Stuart Winton says:

      Regarding Dr James Wilkie, an interesting biography here…  

      …which is characterised below as sef-promotion, and also critiques his supposed role as regards the advent of the Scottish Parliament, the SDA etc etc:  

    102. bellacaledonia says:

      “I don’t think anyone else can be accused of lacking solidarity where NNS is concerned – it’s shown not the slightest interest in “solidarity” with the rest of the Scottish blogosphere, or indeed in interacting with it in any way whatsoever.”
      Sorry but this is just absolute nonsense. I suggest people meet.

    103. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Can you elaborate on either part of that?

    104. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      Have now added Munguin’s Republic as a replacement for A Sair Fecht, which hasn’t had a post in two months.

    105. Alex McI says:

      Ok guys I’m now seeing what  NNS is really all about, if you dissent in any way with a dozen or so posters on there , your post just disappears, no explanation or anything, I posted this morning, that their policy seems worse than the BBC. After seeing an other post and the replies mysteriously disappear. They seem to be pushing the SDA thing strongly, and in my opinion it’s becoming a total waste of time. Used to be such a great site too, shame.

    106. lupusincomitatus says:

      I was on the website and noted that they do seem, a number of their posters, ave an anti EU, pro EFTA agenda.
      The clincher for me was the hyping of the statement by Barosso about continued EU citizenship. A number of them saw that as a window of opportunity to get out of the EU. They were happy to describe Scotland as a region of the UK, if gave them the result they wanted.

    107. Silverytay says:

      Alex McL  
      What I dont understand is that while the posters on the site seems to be promoting the S.D.A the stories themselves are being taken from the S.N.P,s media site .
      Checkout the S.N.P,s media stories the night before and then check out the stories on N.N.S after 7am the next morning .
      i had a couple of posts that did not even make it onto the site over the weekend and there was nothing controversial in them . 

    108. Alex McI says:

      It’s not good anyway, sure we all have a different opinion about things but I’m on the verge of giving up on NNS. If you read the replies by posters after any of the stories, they are actually getting pretty generic, it’s got to the stage you can guess who posted what comment just by the way it’s written, it’s a wee game I have played recently, don’t look at the posters name, just try and guess who posted it from what they say. Bet you are guessing correctly 90% of the time. Still sad as I have watched it go to where it is now, from first finding it around January 2011.

    109. Arbroath 1320 says:

      Don’t worry about it Alex. Your not alone.
      Been there, read the book, starred in the movie and got the T shirt. 😀
      I was sent to the “naughty step” myself for speaking my mind about Moore. Apparently I was wrong to do so. I no longer put up posts on NNS, I don’t even read them. I just read the articles, sometimes.
      As you, and others have been brave enough to point out to the moderators, they have turned NNS into another Scottish BBC with regards to comment moderation.

    110. Alex McI says:

      Yes Arbroath 1320, as I said I have been frequenting the site since Jan 2011, so I know you were a regular contributor,then lots of regulars along with yourself disappeared and left it less than it was. It used to have a wealth of opinion and I picked up a lot of knowledge from it, but now it’s become very clique, even if you post don’t expect many answers back.

    111. Arbroath 1320 says:

      It’s a pity, in my view, that NNS have chosen to go down this particular road. It was ALWAYS my first call of the day, sorry Rev. 😀  However, with the, in my view, nonsense that they are using these days it will more than likely be the LAST site I visit every day.

    112. Who’s the proprietor of the National Collective? The clues in the name, we are …

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