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Wings Over Scotland

A historic breakthrough

Posted on March 12, 2018 by

We could all do with some cheering up at the moment, so it’s with great pleasure that we can announce fantastic news for Scotland – the ancient plague of sectarianism has finally been defeated once and for all!

At least, we assume it MUST have been, because this week the Scottish Parliament is set to give its final assent – thanks to Labour, the Tories, the Liberal Democrats and the all-important Scottish Greens – to abolishing the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act, against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the Scottish population.

And as we can plainly observe from events yesterday, they would only be doing that if sectarianism was no longer a problem and it was safe to send out an encouraging message to the bigots that their worldview is now acceptable in Scotland again.

Because we don’t know about you, readers, but nothing says “problem over” to us like hundreds of masked thugs dressed in black conducting an illegal march through the streets of Scotland’s biggest city, openly inciting violence against a minority group, because the police are unable to stop them even with 48 hours advance warning.

And we’re going to take a pretty confident guess that neither James Kelly, Richard Leonard, Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie or Patrick Harvie live on any of those streets.

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578 to “A historic breakthrough”

  1. bobajock says:

    Ahhh – like the puss of Scottish society oozing out of the red white and blue bruise that is sectarianism.

    Labour in Scotland I blame. Their goading with their ‘populist’ sectarian love-in against sensible laws.

  2. Shug says:

    This is simply the unionist camp crystallising their support and organising it into one manageable group to enable them to arm them during indyref2

    Who would ever have put money on the Labour Party being in the back group of the creation of a group of black shirts

  3. Tam the Bam. says:

    Fresh from his RED CARD! day at Ibrox…wee Dougie was given a free platform to fib on GMS this morning re tax and the military in Scotland.

    As per usual…The Scottish Government were not afforded the right of reply.

  4. Wulls says:

    Ok. As a rangers supporter let me put on record these people do not represent either me or the club I support.
    These people are thugs Plain and simple.
    If existing law does not allow these people to be arrested and charged I don’t see how the OBAF law can asthemarcheas not inside a football stadium.

  5. Kangaroo says:

    Back to the future.

    It’s difficult to promote Scotland for tourism when this sectarianism is rife and visible on the streets.

  6. Bob Mack says:

    Utterly disgusting, and I come from a mixed background.

    These idiots at Hollyrood are calling open season on this type of brash behaviour. They feel empowered to do as they want,to speak as they want, and act as they want.

    It proves one thing though. These parties rely on sectarianism and those who practise it for what they believe is a populist vote. Small (pressure)fan groups have aided and abetted this in collusion with our sectarian politicians to claim it is unpopular, which it most definitely is not.

    The Greens will not be getting any votes from me again if they pursue this madness.

    Give these people one inch,they will take a mile.

  7. I have been screaming on the top of my lungs for over a year that the Nazis are back.

    If you sit back and do nothing to stop them you are an accomplice of every ensuing crime against humanity.

    If photographic evidence of a Nazi doing a Nazi salute is not enough to arrest him/her and jail him/her for the rest of his/her life, we’re down a slippery slope greased by the same indifference in 1920’s Germany.

    The “Scottish” unionist parties ganging against Scots to enable the Nazis will be remembered in history books as Nazi enablers and accomplices.

    We’re at breaking point, chaps.
    Something will happen soon, and it will be ugly.
    Brace yourselves.

  8. Greannach says:

    – “We need to show the Jocks can’t run things on their own.”
    – “Sectarian divisions? The Rangers-Celtic Northern Irish thing?”
    – “Excellent. We need someone from a different party to front it.”
    – “Dim Kelly?”
    – “Cheers!”

  9. Macart says:

    Remember who is responsible the next time you feel you can’t walk the streets or use public transport in safety because of a football match. The last horse shit I want to see bawled out in event of danger to public safety is SNPBAD. M’kay?

    This is entirely on those who chose to abolish rather than look to amend or improve.

  10. galamcennalath says:

    Tell me, do all British Nationalist groups now intend to adopt the Hitlergruß?

  11. Capella says:

    @ Wulls – I believe OBFA covers venues and events connected to football matches, not just what goes on in the stadium. Anyone have chapter and verse on this?

  12. squirrel says:

    trying to stop bigotry at a football game or similar event is pointless. It’s shutting the gate after the horse has bolted. When you separate kids from the same street at School based on their religion your already setting the youth up to hate one another. It’s about time someone made changes to religions influence at an early stage and discredit it before it turns to hate.

  13. Vestas says:

    Rangers – the most evil, malevolent “sports club” there’s ever been. In any country.

  14. Bob Mack says:


    Yes, the Act covers IN the ground, in the vicinity of the ground, and most importantly on the journey TO or FROM the ground. I’m not sure the Rev gets that.

  15. David Smith says:

    It’s time to stop kidding ourselves; this is how the British always want it when they are losing a valuable colony. India Malaya and Aden are the proof of that.
    The die is cast so fuck it, I might as well die fighting for the good guys.

  16. Donald anderson says:

    Deport the lot of them.

    I was told by some decent Rangers fans that they were all receiving tweets a few weeks before the attack on George Square. Now, the police and Cooncil must have known this was coming. The clientele of the Louden Bar in Duke St and Paisley Road, organised the tweeting and are known as openly sectarian and racist right wing lumpen bars, that by all accounts should be closed and licences refused. Now, we all know why and and by whom, this sectarian and divisive behaviour is encouraged and allowed to fester. We won’t rid ourselves of it till the last Unionist MP and paper is gone from Scotland.

    If you can bear it, try reading Brian Wilson’s Weakly anti SNP column in the Hootsmon on line every Friday, where this Sellick Unionists and Loyalist’s greatest online fans are the same foul mouthed right wing Rangers Loyalist lumpen fans described by Stu above.

    Kelly, McMahon, MSPs all prefer organised mass idiocy, bigotry and racism to “Bullying Cyber Nats”, who do not heel to the Unionist establishment media. All power to Stu, the noo, for even daring to speak out about this planted filth in our midst.

  17. Ian McLean says:

    Oddly, I can find no reference to this on the BBC website. An accidental oversight I’m sure.

  18. Mike says:

    WTF was Patrick Harvey thinking? Did he succumb to Tory mocking of his parties support for the Scottish Government and decided just for the sake of opposition to oppose? Is this the Greens way of showing they are a separate party and not a branch of the SNP? I cant think of any other reason for Harvey and his Greens for supporting this moronic idea to vote down the OB act.
    I get the Joint pro Union cabal working in cohesion as usual to undermine a pro Indy Government but Harvey was way off on this one. Flexing a swing vote just to prove he can irrespective of consequence has me wondering who the Greens are and what they stand for.

  19. Bob Mack says:

    Just for information. Over 67% of Rangers fans support this.Over 80% of Celtic fans support this as well. The minorities have ? highlighted and used by Unionist politicians for their own ends in this case

  20. Bob Mack says:

    Just for information. Over 67% of Rangers fans support this.Over 80% of Celtic fans support this as well. The minorities have been highlighted and used by Unionist politicians for their own ends in this case

  21. Capella says:

    @ Bob Mack – thx – so this incdent is covered under OBFA.

    I too searchd for this item on the BBC website but there’s no mention. Only the Herald front page carries the story.

    I even went to the Glasgow and West section of the sebsite but it isn’t there either.

    Hilariousy, the Celtic / Rangers match is buried way down the reading order, sandwiched between items from the 10th March and the 9th March. The three 9th March items are all about Rangers chanes of winning “The Derby”.

    The BBC is pathologically Unionist in it’s sport coverage.

  22. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Yes, the Act covers IN the ground, in the vicinity of the ground, and most importantly on the journey TO or FROM the ground. I’m not sure the Rev gets that.”

    Of course I bloody do. What’s your point?

  23. Caren Jones says:

    Kids would love to go to these football matches but the threat of violence is too much. Doesn’t matter if you are green nosed or blue no person should be subjected to this shit.

  24. Street Andrew says:

    Shug says:
    12 March, 2018 at 9:52 am

    This is simply the unionist camp …”

    Camp ain’t what it used to be ducky. Same thing though – a sort of perverse aberration of bromance.

  25. HandandShrimp says:

    We’re going to take a pretty confident guess that neither James Kelly, Richard Leonard, Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie or Patrick Harvie live on any of those streets.

    So they, Murdo and Ross were not marching with the dingbats in the photos?

  26. Capella says:

    Sorry about typos. My spilling is atroshus today.

  27. Ken500 says:

    Absolutely appalling. Unfettered illegal sectarianism. Illegal under every Law, not being inforced.. Destroying the Glasgow central belt, Scottish economy. Costing £Billions, destroying the economy. The unionists and Green should be holding their heads in shame. Not fit for government.

    It was a bad Law but at least it did something. It is the only thing that has help or done anything to make a different against the cowardly violence, threathening thigs. thugs. This is nothing to do with sport. Breaking the Law at every opportunity. Racists, bigots and crooks. Every single one of them should be held to account. Including the directors breaking Company Law illegally. Breaking the Director code of conduct. Inciting violence. They should be cautioned and charged. All the evidence is their.

    This so called derby should be banned completely. This carry on is making people very, very sick unhappy, angry and ill. Stopping people going about their lawful business. The Law being abused one again. Any sporting company not stopping this abuse should be censored and fined out of existence. Or the directors should be brought before the Law and disqualified for breach of company Law. Or jailed for condoning irrational violence. Not tolerated under the Law. They should find themselves in jail. This is not sport. At any rate. At any level. It is ignorant brain washing since the day they are born.

    No wonder the terraces are empty. The industry in decline.

  28. Capella says:

    Oops and forgot the link. Scroll down to the Sport section and try to find the record of the “Derby” and the score.

  29. They are quite simply the Brit Nats Blackshirts.
    Uneducated low skilled poor underclass fed nonsense by their ‘Religions’ that they are the one true faith, and the ‘Them’ are the antichrist and must be opposed by any means fair or foul, violent or malicious, as possible.
    The ‘ecumenical’ Hierarchy, the Haves, who allow this to happen, who deliberately mute news of it on their BBC /ITV broadcasters and in what’s laughably left of a newspaper industry sit atop this festering dung heap of hate and violence safe behind their gated communities content that as prole fights prole, their Elite Status is never under threat, their injustices never challenged.
    Patrick Harvie, get a fucking grip. I know you read WoS, which politician doesn’t?
    @Wulls You are talking shit.
    Rangers and Celtic are the root cause of all this evil violent nonsense.
    Are you really that deluded, brainwashed, stupid, or are you part of the problem?
    These are vicious mindless thugs, and OBFA is imperfect, sure, but your option, for existing laws to cop[e with 10,000 ‘fans’ Fenian Bloodlust is just pandering to the mob.
    The dog collars love it of course. True Blue Proddies and Devout Catholics fill the collecting plates.
    Evil quite literally stalked our land on Mothering Sunday.
    We, the people of Scotland have had enough.

    Go into that Chamber today and admit that you made a terrible mistake in siding with the Bigots and Racists.

  30. Street Andrew says:

    Mike says:
    12 March, 2018 at 10:21 am
    “WTF was Patrick Harvey thinking?
    Flexing a swing vote just to prove he can irrespective of consequence has me wondering who the Greens are and what they stand for.” ?

    Nostalgia ?

  31. BLMac says:

    None of this would be happening if all the “decent” Rangers and Celtic supporters walked out en masse when sectarian stuff started at a match.

    Maybe we need a law that makes it compulsory for the clubs to pay a refund to anyone who leaves the match because of sectarianism.

    The clubs could kill this dead if they wanted to. That they haven’t speaks volumes.

  32. Bob Mack says:

    Point is pretty obvious. If OBFA was not getting repealed then the Police could have done something about it.
    N est pas?

  33. galamcennalath says:

    HandandShrimp says:

    Murdo and Ross were not marching with the dingbats in the photos?

    With all the covered faces we’ll never know, unless they admit it openly!

  34. mogabee says:

    An open invitation to do what you like…


  35. mogabee says:

    Oh, and how do you think that the Russians sorted their Ultras out?

    By punishing the leaders severely as well as crackdowns on gatherings. So yes, it can be done…if there is a will!

  36. Cath says:

    By encouraging this kind of thing through abolishing the OBFA (just because…SNP and SNP bad) Unionist politicians in Scotland are doing a fantastic amount to ensure that these pictures are what represent unionism in Scotland. Not sure they’ve really thought that one through.

    That said, the one group of people I have zero sympathy for in all of this is the Green Brigade. They’re as anti OBFA and pro-sectarianism as these eejits in the pictures. It’s just a load of men who want a fight and to terrorise others, nothing more.

  37. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Sunday’s disgraceful march will not change a thing. The lesser parties are so hell-bent on using OBFA’s ending as a “win” over the bad SNP they will blindly go ahead.

    They have emboldened the loonies and will reap the whirlwind, except, they will say it wasn’t them, it was that bad SNP.


    More-worringly, what was the local Police Scotland Divisional Commander doing? He or she had 48-hours warning, and could and should have stopped this illegal march at source.

  38. Wulls says:

    Bob Mack says:
    12 March, 2018 at 10:18 am

    Yes, the Act covers IN the ground, in the vicinity of the ground and most importantly on the journey to the ground”

    Pretty sure Stu Campbell has a better grip on OBFA than most.
    I was not aware OBFA was applicable on the journey to a game.
    Also these union bears could say the march was not TO the game.

  39. Dan Huil says:

    Disgusting images of rabid british nationalism. The so-called united kingdom survives [just] on hatred and bigotry. Are there british establishment agents behind these balaclavas? Wouldn’t be the first time.

    These demonstrations show how desperate Britnats are getting.

  40. Bob Mack says:

    @ Wull,

    Yes they could say the journey was not to the game,but that would then constitute an illegal gathering without prior permission. They could still have been charged.

    I hear through the grapevine that police felt it more prudent to let it go ahead rather than have a potential pitched battle with insufficient numbers to control it fully.

  41. jim sayers says:

    it is disgusting letting them walk the street the leaders should be arrested this is the 21 century not the 17

  42. orri says:

    Think there’s artificial skunk spray available. Police should have just lobbed a few bottles in amongst them after reading them the Riot Act.

    No OBFA is it?
    Existing Laws is it?

    You think having a “questionable” conviction on your record is bad. Wait till the Police take off the kid gloves and nail your balls to the wall.

  43. louis.b.argyll says:

    Has nobody, from the entire BBC journalistic staff, ever investigated sectarianism? Too busy with murder, falling standards and sports?

    This should be held up as a national embarrassment, disgusting hate crimes, fascist tendencies marketed as family entertainment.

    Oh yes, Strathclyde Police were to blame once apparently, for burying Old Firm domestic abuse figures (evidence of social decay) BUT JOURNALISTS AND COLLUDING REPRESENTATIVES CONTINUE TO HIDE THEIR HEADS IN THE SAND.

  44. Tinto Chiel says:

    This is simply an attack on our civil society, permitted by the police and ignored by the BBC.

    Someone’s told them to flex their muscles.

    Doesn’t bode well for Indyref2, when they’ll be even more desperate.

    Oh, Patrick Harvie…

  45. Cubby says:

    It suits the UK/Westminster for this sectarian hatred to flourish in Scotland. As long as we are in the U.K we will have to put up with this disgusting behaviour.
    If you want to ged rid of sectarian hate in Scotland vote yes to Scottish independence.


  46. Gullane No4 says:

    Scottish Greens have just lost my second vote.

  47. louis.b.argyll says:

    Dan Huil,
    ‘Are there british establishment agents behind these balaclavas? Wouldn’t be the first time.’

    A perfect example Dan. The answer is yes, definitely.

    The UK recruits soldiers from certain communities and REPEATEDLY deploys them in Ulster deliberately to DIVIDE AND RULE.

    Empire in action, a three thousand year old strategy.

    Once NATION is conquered create a middle class to administer the divisions in the new REGION.

  48. Sheryl Hepworth says:

    Jack Collatin @10.357 says”The dog collars love it of course. True Blue Proddies and Devout Catholics fill the collecting plates.”
    Mmmm not so sure Jack that these ignorant, unionist, bigotted, idiots are church goers at all!! They certainly aren’t of any Christian outlook that I’m aware of! They are scum trouble makers out to blame anyone for their problems/anger except themselves! Brain-washed, of low intellegence and education, looking for a fight just because they can. We’ll never change these stupid people BUT the OBFA was at least a start to halting this vile outpouring of hatred!

  49. birnie says:

    re Dan Huil at 10.46

    I saw a comment somewhere on Facebook from an ex-army intelligence squaddie who suggested that 77th Brigade may have been behind the promotion and organisation of the march.

    Just sayin’

  50. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Bob Mack @ 10.54am

    I take your point about the Police perhaps deciding it was the more-rudent option to let them march. However, this perhaps indicates the unsatisfactory situation as regards the lack of a confirmed Chief Constable for the service.

    The Louden Tavern is on Copeland Road, not that far from Ibrox, surely there were sufficient numbers of police in the vicinity to have stopped the march.

    It is long past time for the authorities to clamp down on the behaviour of these so-called “football fans”.

  51. louis.b.argyll says:

    Fascist Christian Fundamentalists protected by sport?

    What kind of planet is the UK.

    The Reformation ended everywhere else centuries ago.

  52. Finnz says:

    The scumbags may be wearing their ‘Rangers’ colours, but underneath, etched into their skin, is rabid Unionism…

  53. Ananurhing says:

    I think the next time this happens they should send Patrick Harvie and Ross Greer round to reason with these people.

  54. Calum McKay says:

    Backwards move, instigated by idiots blind to the publlic harm it does and message it communicates.

    “Sectarianism is open for business in Scotland!”

    Done purely to hurt the SNP.

    Makes you wonder what benefit the repeal of this act has on the Good Friday Accord, perhaps Tony Blair or Gordon Brown could explain?

  55. Dr Jim says:

    Did the football club allow them in to the game after the march and if they did does that not mean the club does in fact support this behaviour contrary to their many denials that they don’t

    Just as well it’s not me in charge I’d ban both clubs from football entirely if I had the power, and I’d smile happily as I did it and as for the so called good fans who don’t engage in bad behaviour, by doing nothing they’re complicit
    they can’t just keep standing next to these people complaining *it’s no me it’s thame Ma* I’m only here to see the game
    Perhaps if the *innocents* weren’t there to see the game the club or clubs really would take action because they’d have to

    Every single one of these type of people on both sides add no value to our country indeed they have the opposite effect, they cost us money and respect

  56. orri says:

    Another way might have been for the police to wait for them to gather in enough numbers to constitute an illegal assembly then lift them. In other words don’t wait till they’re outnumbered.

  57. Ken500 says:

    Many are not uneducated, unemployed etc. Many have responsible jobs and are not in lower income brackets. It crosses all sectors of society but is particular to the south of Scotland. In the north sectarian marches of any persuasion are banned, The Police are instrumental in enforcing the ban. They apply to ban any marches which promote disorder, abuse or violence, This particular problems do not exist in areas further North. There would be outrage from the population if this was happening. A variety of deterrent action but the Law is enforced, The same Police Force is operational over the whole of Scotland. Sporting clubs that take responsible action to stop disorder happening.

    Some people once in Glasgow coinciding with the ‘Derby’ accidently, Heard and saw the Helicopters overhead (another expense £10,000 an hour). Hospital costs, social costs etc. They thought a terrorist incidence had happened. Until being enlightened. The shouting, swearing abuse and drunken behaviour was appalling.

    The Minimum pricing policy introduced in May could have an affect on that behaviour.

  58. BJ says:

    Ruth Davidson will be cock a hoop. The Ulsterisation of Scotland is now in full swing.

    Patrick Harvie you’re a disgrace to what the Green Party is supposed to stand for. I’ll never trust you again if you support this.

  59. Auld Rock says:

    While all this was going on I was still partying with, Irish (including N.Irish) and Sxots in Dublin and later in Wicklow. Great game as an Irish supporter sitting next to me said, “We were lucky that those missed passes had not gone to hand, Scotland are on the brink of being the Northern Hemisphere New Zealand, they are a very good and fiercely competative team with a great coach.” Says it all really and for the record hardly saw a Gardai Officer all day in Dublin as there was no need the craic was brilliant.

    I think true supporters of both clubs could do more as has been suggested above and the FA could start deducting points, that would bring them to their senses, that is if they have any!!!

  60. Martin says:

    People whining about the “existing laws” really miss the point. OBFA is not about giving power to arrest people. It’s about sending a message that secarianism is abhorrent to our society and will not be tolerated.

    Removing it (even if other laws technically cover the actions)after so much publicity does exactly the opposite. That’s the issue- the message it sends.

  61. Les Wilson says:

    Well I am not a football fan, ever since when at a Hibs v Rangers match at Easter Road, a kid standing with his dad got half his ear torn off by a rangers fan throwing a broken tumbler into the crowd. I vowed then never to be involved or go to any more football matches, got into boxing instead.

    The leaders of this “group” need to be found, the texts need traced and the Police need to apprehend the culprits and the courts need to deal with them with no mercy. Unless there are big risks for them, it will keep going on. Something has to be done.

    I Also ask if their numbers included any right wing groups from England and/or NI. It would be good to know that ie in future buses could be stopped, trains monitored, ferries delayed, something has to be done that costs them to do these things. They need sever legal payback for their actions. Something that
    will deter them, if such a thing is possible.

  62. Martin says:

    @Auld Rock:

    I too was in Dublin for the game (I agree, a couple of slack passes from it being a 4-6 point margin- the scoreline did Scotland a disservice). No bother at all, despite the freely available drink in Aviva.

    The following day I watched the game at the River bar whilst having a lovely fry up. Tables of mixed supportes and no hassle at all. I agree the majority of fans from both clubs are probably like me and absolutely hate all this….but that minority are extremely vocal and seem to exert too much influence. We need to be able to deal with them harshly and keep on mesage that sectarianism must go.

  63. galamcennalath says:

    There’s two things going on here.

    Firstly there is the knuckle dragging violent ‘culture’ associated itself with football.

    Secondly there is the knuckle dragging violent ‘culture’ associated itself with politics.

    Historically in different countries each has existed quite independently. I doubt very much if Hilter’s brown shirts associated with football teams, and I also don’t think past football hooligans had strong political affiliations.

    I am deeply suspicious that the merging we see currently in Scotland has been engineered. The roots were there because there was a long term sectarian element. I reckon it is being channelled and morphed into something much more political intentionally. It is being tolerated, nurtured even. I can smell shite.

  64. If the sfa had followed the correct procedure when Rangers were allowed to stay in the Scottish leagues when they should have been made to reapply for membership when there were other junior clubs more deserving of membership than them we maybe would not now have this problem

  65. heedtracker says:

    Freedom of Expression. Great unionist victory, Scottish politics paradigm shifting, even.

    It’s very odd to not see it all carefully reported on the beeb Scotland gimp network though.

    Beeb gimps campaigned so hard too. Before the OBFA, they gave massive air time over to thug life at the football news for decade, as much as match news reporting. Beeb gimpery makes no sense sometimes.

    Next up on unionists to do list, Scrap the ludicrous, hated and illiberal baby boxes.

    I know this because my Slovene girlfriend says so and he’s brought much needed “forensic legal insight in to Scottish politics.”

    Adam Tomkins MSP
    Retweeted Murdo Fraser


    Murdo Fraser
    Verified account

    Looking forward to tomorrow’s debate @ScotParl and the opportunity to vote to repeal the ludicrous, hated and illiberal Offensive Behaviour at Football Act – hundreds of constituents have urged me to do so
    12:37 PM – 24 Jan 2018

  66. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Sheryl Hepworth 11:10,
    Dead right there. It has nothing to do with religion – unless it’s the “religion” of hate – and a hell of a lot to do with neo-Fascism. None of these cowardly anonymous neds has ever likely ever seen the inside of any religious building, let alone understood the basics of Christianity.

    “Love thy neighbour” very much on show – not!

    orri @ 10:59,

    “Existing laws”? Yeah. So how come the polis just look on so impotently?

    Patrick Harvie, what a dumbass over this. The Hitler-saluters are now just mocking you and the law. That’s all the thanks your concern-politics has got you. You won’t ever get their vote, and now you’ve lost ours too.

  67. Iain mhor says:

    The OBFA was merely an Act attempting to address sectarianism.. Holyrood passed the Act believing it would have the support of the populace – The Courts took some issue with the ability to enforce it, believing it may be, as enacted, a “Poor Law” ie: not judiciable – as opposed to a ‘Bad Law’ : not being backed by the populace and therefore unenforceable.

    Members of Holyrood interpreted this as a “Bad Law” which would not be acceptable to the populace and voted in majority to rescind it entirely (as opposed to amend it) If it turns out they misinterpreted the will of the populace, then those who rescinded it will be out on their ear, or will lose popular votes. That’s how it works.

    Naturally I am being generous in suggesting the “members” misinterpreted the will of the populace, as opposed to acted for their own political ends. Regardless, the outcome will be the same : “Who is responsible?” ‘They are’ – “Right, get them cairted!” or, “Fine by me”
    In the greater scheme of things, it is, as has been mentioned , simply the “Ulsterisation” of Scottish politics. Battle lines are literally being drawn. *Sigh.

  68. Liz g says:

    In this instance,I think the Police were right to let them march.
    They (the thug’s) didn’t do themselves any favours….it wasn’t a good look.
    Most right minded people will have been disgusted, and even the media knew it.
    Which is probably why they are so quite about it!

    They got to march…aye….but what they didn’t get to do was claim “victim” status.
    Defending their so called “right” to march seems to be their best recruiting tool!
    Thats what the organizer’s probably would have preferred.

    They will have to up the anti,to get a response
    Come the time when they turn violent…and they will..the police can step in.
    And that Police Scotland can handle them..of that I have no doubt!

    It seems to me that Police Scotland sent the message, have yer stupid march,so long as yer peaceful, ye will get to the park.
    All they really did was step out of their closet and bring closer the day when,the public will demand something gets done.
    Which will make the OBAF act look positively libertarian.

    I don’t think ,The Police, The Club’s or one Particular Political Party can solve this.
    The demand not to tolerate it has to come from us..the public.. If enough of us get disgusted enough!

    We all know that this sectarianism will be encouraged to give the impression that this country will finish up like N. Ireland of the 70s,if we try to leave the UK,which it can’t.
    But we need to counter that narrative by pointing out,The British State couldn’t actually handle it,and in most cases made it worse.
    It was Europe that played the major part in keepin the peace.

  69. Rick H Johnston says:

    Spoke to a Green Party member last week who was baffled at his party,s
    position on this.
    Patrick Harvie could lose lots of second votes on this.
    We go to football as a family.
    Every club knows who sits in what seats.
    Unionist parties dinnae gie a toss for the rights of the fans.

  70. AAD says:

    I’ve just sent in a complaint to the BBC about their lack of coverage of this news item. As always, I will not hold my breath.

  71. Shug says:

    Unionist equals Black shirt mob

    I think I like that

    But we need to be clear Westminster will assist and arm them.

    What will the police do about investigating

  72. Dave McEwan Hill says:


    Editorial in today’s Record putting the boot into Labour. As I said keep an eye on this.

  73. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Iain mhor @ 12:17,

    What do you mean “if” they misinterpreted the will of the populace? Where have you been? Not seen Stu’s poll result on that?

    As if the Red-Blue-Orange alliance give a fig about the “will of the populace” anyway. There was never any opposition issue more wickedly cynical than this one.

    When BritLab were the cringy “Scottish Executive” they promised they were going to do more about the blight of sectarianism. Now they are nowhere, James “Dork” Kelly is going to rush out a better law when, exactly…?

  74. starlaw says:

    Liz g 12-18

    perhaps letting these people carry on is the best idea, they will not know where to stop and follow the example of Homer Simpson and over step the mark to the extreme. Then is the time to round them up and jail them for a long term. This would finish this crowd and other like-wise minded Homer Simpson clones.

  75. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono

  76. Bobp says:

    This is exactly what unionist politicians in Scotland want, a country divided by sectarian hatred before indyref2. In any other country these tory scum would be arrested for inciting religious division and violence by lowlife brain dead thugs.

  77. heedtracker says:

    You won’t ever get their vote, and now you’ve lost ours too.

    Should Harvie be scapegoated though?

    Maybe he also enjoys dressing up in black, balaclava, marching along with loads of half cut bigot thugs, on chilly Saturday afternoons.

    Look on the bright side.

    Maybe it’s all just a good old fashioned tension release, for your average thug, the SLab and Cons toryboys, Greens etc. No harm in releasing that tension is there.

    If people do get hurt or you do get to share a Glasgow train compartment or bus with these guys and you quite enjoy them releasing their tensions, well…remember to vote red or blue tory, maybe even Green next time.

  78. Les Wilson says:

    Shug says:

    For all we know some Police around the top, could well be in the Unionist camp, with links to the unseen UK forces.I would like to think not, but if no move is made by them to stop these actions, we need to look at who ultimately makes these decisions and why.

    To take no action, says to them it is ok, we will not interfere,
    and that is not good enough.

  79. John Bell says:

    Fascist Christian Fundamentalists. I agree with the first word. The marchers yesterday and the green Brigade are as Christian as Richard Dawkins. The MSP’s who voted to repeal the act are as much to blame for yesterday as the marchers. They have given a green light to such behaviour.

  80. Effijy says:

    Several years ago, i was given tickets to an Ibrox Match that was a charity event where former Old Firm Players came out of retirement.

    My family are Protestant and my best friend’s family Catholic.
    We took our kids for a day out and I was utterly shocked and astonished at the language used and the vehement in abusing the retired opposition players for the full 90 minutes.

    I’ve never been to either old firm ground since, and I never will again.

    The so called fans have little interest in football.
    They are there to support their idea that they and their religion are superior to their opposition.

    No one is superior and everyone is equal within my upbringing.

    I was in the City yesterday afternoon for a Mother’s Day Lunch.
    On leaving the restaurant, there where a number of drunken fans
    staggering, shouting and swearing as though decent people with children were present.

    One Rangers fan with his girlfriend taunted a group of 6 drunk Celtic fans. The 6 walked taunting and swearing at the guy as they walked straight in front of traffic moving away from the
    lights. As far as they were concerned, they had priority over the road and it was up to these drivers not to hit them.

    Another Bar that I passed on St Vincent St seemed to be a stronghold for Celtic fans, many outside the bar with drinks and who were shouting and swearing at any car or person with a Rangers scarf.

    I was under the impression that drinking in the Street, Staggering drunk in the Street, Sectarian shouting and Singing with foul language in front of innocent passers by were all subject to arrest and being made an example of to deter others,
    but No. it seems the English Parties are united in maintaining this cancer within our society.

    That is one of many reasons that I could never consider voting for them.

    PS I didn’t see one city centre Policeman or Car as I walked passed all of this. Why?

  81. Arbroath1320 says:

    It was not just the “march” yesterday that people need to be aware of. I read last night on Twitter about a Celtic player (sorry can’t remember which one) being attacked by a bunch of morons at Glasgow airport whilst waiting for his flight to London. His attackers were not indifferent to attacking one of the airport staff either. Needless to say they were arrested and their bags off loaded from the flight.

    Oh did I mention this attack took place in B.A.’s BUSINESS Club?

  82. Capella says:

    Scrolling further down on the BBC Glasgow and West web page there is a link to a story about a Celtic player being “involved in an altercation” at Glasgow Airport.

    Turns out it is from the Renfrew Gazette. In fact the player was subjected to verbal abuse but the paper declines to say who was hurling abuse. Most of the commenteers are in no doubt though.

  83. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Liz g @ 12:18,

    I’m not so sure.

    Firstly, it’s intended to encourage a knuckle-dragging populist rabble to rally behind the Nazi salute. This is the main follow-on from the EURef, finding scapegoats and appealing to people’s baser instincts as a diversion from the real issues, like self-determination.

    I have always maintained that this hateful anti-foreigner thing is a tool that they will re-deploy big-time in IR2. They can’t use the old tricks, they have all been exposed. BritNats are getting organised for the inevitable constitutional showdown too.

    Secondly, it is intended to scare the neutral “fearties” – make them reluctant to even have another indyref because of the real trouble these thugs threaten to unleash over it. Last time the “divisiveness” was imaginary, next time they imply they will make it real. That is their “back-in-the-box” playbook.

    It was all tried and tested in Germany (and elsewhere) in the 1930s. It didn’t end well then, and it won’t again now, if we let it run wild and unchecked.

  84. Bobp says:

    Squirrel 10.16am. There are catholic schools the world over and down here in England. There is no division or hatred between them and other schools. Dont use Scotland’s disease as an excuse to blame schools that have a higher standard of education.

  85. Gfaetheblock says:

    Surely this is clear evidence that the offensive behaviour (football) act has been a complete failure?

    Repealing it and replace with something fit for purpose, get disgraceful scenes like this off our streets.

  86. Bobp says:

    My wife went to a Catholic school in England. Most of her friends are church of England. They are too clever to fall for all this them and us catholic proddy sh**e. Only in Scotland!

  87. Morgatron says:

    Im ashamed. What a bunch of thick shits these people are allowing them the freedom of our streets , well enough of the opposition MSPs , yeah and i bet they dont live on these streets.
    In the 21st century we have secterian division alive and well and still living in Scotland , this is all our shame. Because people have voted these morons in to our parliment.

  88. Ken MacColl says:

    The running sore of sectarianism surely has to be tackled and, if the unholy alliance of opposition from Lab, Tory Liberal and (shame on them) Greens are so opposed to the SNP Bill why can they not bring forward effective legislation of their own?
    Much more concerning is the highly selective failure on the part of our media , broadcast and print, to report on the well publicised march which according to the pictures above, was actually stewarded by the police!
    Ibrox had plenty of police present and others in reserve but the bigots, on both sides, were in all too evident.
    full blooded voice. Are broadcasters and reporters unaware of this or are they merely complicit and acquiescent supporters of the deplorable status quo?
    Earlier last week Sky News initiated a poll to find out the public’s view of the most influential women in the UK to mark International Women’s Day. The poll was hi-jacked by SNP Bad and resulted in a result that Sky News neither expected nor approved so the poll was dropped like a hot potato. Strangely and sinisterly the item failed to attract the attention of any other news agency.

  89. heedtracker says:

    Dont use Scotland’s disease as an excuse to blame schools that have a higher standard of education.”

    Easy to do it though in Glasgow.

    We tend forget that Catholic schooling system only came about because bigots blocked Catholic children from Glasgow’s schools. What else were they going to do but set up their own education system.

    Keep in mind, Glasgow voted majority YES, RFC fans included, many of whom flat out refuse to tie in the club they do love, with their vote on the future of Scotland.

    Most none thug RFC supporters are quite happy to explain that.

    We’re in this 21st century shite because the bigots got power in cities like Glasgow over a hundred years ago. Its not like this in cities like Aberdeen, where they failed to get going.

    Same bigots are still here.

  90. Les Roches says:

    comforting to see the Glesga Polis being ever vigilant in stopping hate crimes being conducted, I guess any complaints made went via their fabulous call center staff who will get round to following up in around 2 weeks time.

  91. Graham King says:

    I am deeply disappointed at the Scottish Green Party joining in this ill-judged campaign against the OBFA. And I am a member of the Scottish Green Party.

  92. Joe says:

    Those scenes were disgraceful, but not surprising. If it wasn’t for social media no-one would have found out either.
    But there has been a fair amount of mince on here from some posters.

    Firstly “Squirrel” blames the schools. There are catholic schools in England and Wales too, but they don’t have anti-catholic marches. There is a common denominator here.

    Someone else said marches are banned in northern Scotland. No they are not. Illegal marches are, but legal marches are allowed.

    We have others blaming the police for letting this go ahead. Who is supposed to pay for the dozens of riot police and mounted police you would need to stop this. I think the police took a decision to allow this to go ahead for 2 reasons. The cost factor was one but letting the world see what could happen after the OBFA is repealed is another, and it worked.

  93. heedtracker says:

    As beeb gimps in Scotland successfully inflame all kinds of sectarian and yoon “rifts,” in England, its slightly BBC different, well very different. Although when you do enter the Beeb gimp zone, it gets instantly disorientating.

    Dame Louise Casey, who wrote a report for the government on integration in 2016, said a “common language” would help to “heal rifts across Britain”

  94. Artyhetty says:

    Not had time to read many comments yet, but to me this is completely organised and orchestrated by the British nationalist state. Having followed what happens in countries like Venezuela, where last year, thugs were paid, ( some given free drugs) even bussed in from outside the country, to cause havoc on the streets when the US were unable to unseat left wing, democratically elected Maduro. It was violent and young people died even the ones being paid to cause havoc on the front line.

    Yesterday was a disgrace, with Corbyn’s anti immigrant speech, the message they are hoping to get out to the world, is that Scotland is anti immigrant, sectarian, troubled, with unsafe streets. They are attempting to portray Scotland as unwelcoming, violent, volatile and especially and importantly, closed for business. I guess it’s been their go to tactic for a long time, but they are stepping it up right now.

    Scotland is a forward looking, peaceful country, and we will not allow the Britnats or anyone else to wreck our country. The police were standing by, just who do they take their orders from then.

    For Britnat politicians to vote to encourage this type of violence is just criminal in itself. I had friends staying at the weekend, from England. One from Ireland and very concerned about the GFA, when I told them about the britnat parties vote to repeal the OBFA, they asked, ‘but why?’ I don’t think they believed me when I said it is purely political and is to undermine the SNP government and create divide on the streets of Scotland.

    The Britnats are desperate because the tactics of indy ref#1 will not work next time. We will not allow them to create divide where non exists however, we know who the real criminals are and it’s easy to see the tactics being rolled out.

  95. Sarah says:

    I hope everyone, lurkers and commenters, are sending emails to ALL their MSPs – I’ve started with Edward Mountain and Patrick Harvie [because he is party leader].

  96. Lou Nisbet says:

    I see that the EBC have even managed to convince idiots to SPELL the name of their parliament wrong. It is Holyrood – pronounced Holy rood as in HOLY. It has never been nor ever will be Hollyrood.

    The fact that even our own politicians (That’s the SNP in case anyone wants to call me a troll on here again) call it Hollyrood is the greatest piece of propaganda the EBC have ever foisted on Scotland.

    So -well done all you fools that INSIST on calling it Hollyrood. Hint Holly has two ‘l’s in it. Holy only has one. It is particularly vexatious when anyone from Edinburgh or Glasgow(Paisley maybe?) does this. The historical source of the name is well known and I just wonder if Glaswegians call Holyrood school Hollyrood School?

    signed – Disgusted at the lot of them

  97. Robert Peffers says:

    @Wulls says: 12 March, 2018 at 9:59 am:

    “If existing law does not allow these people to be arrested and charged I don’t see how the OBAF law can asthemarcheas not inside a football stadium.”

    Now I may be wrong, Wulls, but the OBAF law did not just apply inside the football ground. Wasn’t there cases brought against fans on trains on their way to matches?

  98. stewart fae stoney says:

    Scum, unionist orange order bigoted scum, but hey some are Tory councillors and rooth the mooth says they are ok so it must be

  99. alexicon says:

    The green’ have also lost my second vote.
    Remember folks this scum is not representative of all rangers supporters. I know a few independence supporting gers supporters.

  100. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Joe@1.16

    Re the police, I think that you could be right there, to have gone in heavy handed would have handed the thugs license to be even more thuggish. Notice they hid their faces. Maybe the police have some way of seeing through their balaclavas, that would be useful.
    It would be good to know who and where these thugs are from.

    Yes I know, plenty wee thugs in Scotland, but 100’s of them with nothing better to do? I doubt it somehow.

  101. Bobp says:

    A date for everyone to speak English?? Would that be Oxford English or Scots english?.

  102. JLT says:

    What we saw yesterday (and in today’s media) is the face of British Unionism at its very, very worst. But at the same time, I’ll bet that the leadership of the Scottish Orange Order itself will look on this with aghast and horror. I’m not defending the OO for I don’t agree with it any way while it exists. At the same time, I believe we have to look at what they celebrate as their ‘culture’ and then look at what we are seeing here.

    The Orange Order primarily celebrates the Glorious Revolution of 1688-90 with the (very grey) ideals that Protestants overthrew a Catholic ‘tyrant’ king in James VII and what came from it was the idea of the birth of Constitutional monarchy. But what the village idiots in these photos are doing is nothing like that. This is just out and out racial bigoted thuggery. It’s fascism if we really want to label it …and that must have the Chairman of the Orange Order and its leaders (along with various lodges) feeling very concerned.

    Because if this is the new face of Scottish Protestantism, then the Orange Order and its various lodges will be seriously tarred with it also. It will also make the vast, vast majority Scots who consider themselves Protestants (but couldn’t care less for it) realise that if they can’t relate to what they see in those photos, then they must have a different identity altogether. And that will worry key Unionists as well as the Orange Order. If the people of Scotland can’t relate to this ‘identity’ of Britishness, then they won’t feel British. They will instead feel Scottish.

    The argument from Unionists is always about ‘identity’ – it is as simple as that. But if the photos show that this is 21st Century British Identity Scottish-style, then it’s going to stall the Unionist arguments and movement for retaining the Union. Who wants to be a part of British Identity if part of that face is now just sheer thuggery?

    Looking closer at the pictures, the vast majority of folk involved are young men with absolutely no clue as to what they are arguing for except that they hate Catholics, love the Union and love the Queen even more. That is pretty much it. They are illiterate, ignorant knuckle-dragging fools that make 7 year olds have a better grasp of how the world functions. These idiots if you said the word ‘Presbyterianism’ to them would probably think that you were swearing at them!

    Personally, as much as I detest what I see in those pictures, these knuckledraggers do at the same time, seriously damage the very British Unionist cause that are trying to promote. And on that, I thank them from the bottom of my heart.

  103. wull2 says:

    As a result of yesterday, more people will vote YES.

  104. cirsium says:

    @David Smith, 10.19am

    this is how the British always want it when they are losing a valuable colony.

    Bull’s eye, David.

  105. Shug says:

    You said Cathcart children were blocked from attending schools in glasgow

    When did this haappen

  106. Shug says:

    Sorry catholic children

  107. Alastair says:

    I can’t put in to words just how disturbed this makes me. I contacted the Greens to let them know how angry I was and got a reply framing the basis of their unhappiness with the current law as justification for repeal. as Macart said further back, ammend it, don’t bin it. I’m actually feckin furious as I write this.

  108. jfngw says:

    This group are feeling emboldened by the actions of the UK Tories in Scotland at the last UK election plus the UK Labour party in Scotland by the their OBFA repeal demand ably assist by these same Tories (still better together).

    The Green’s can only hang their heads in shame by supporting this repeal. Fortunately my hands are clean having resisted the nonsense about giving a show-boating party my second vote. Lets hope the lessons have been learned by those who thought the Green’s had something to offer.

  109. Arbroath1320 says:

    I have seen over on Twitter suggestion by someone that the police were advised not to use the OBAF act yesterday because of the imminent demise of the act.

    I don’t know how true this is but in my view it does make sense. By the time the perpetrators had been brought to court Kelly and co. would have repealed it.

    Other questions still exist though.

    1) why was the “march” still allowed to go ahead

    2) where were the stewards (YES march in Glasgow was banned unless the organisers could provide sufficient stewards, 1 per 100 marchers, who had completed a stewarding course at £1,000 a head)

    3) have organiser been arrested yet for carrying out an illegal march and for failing to provide the requisite number of stewards

    4) throwing/letting off of flares is illegal in Scotland is it not and if it is how many arrests have been made

    5) when can we expect Kelly and all his repeal supporting mates to go onto national television and apologise to everyone who was affected by yesterday’s shenanigans

  110. Arbroath1320 says:


    I forgot to add one thing to my last post.

    There is actually one good thing to come out of this march yesterday… yes there is peeps … bear with me here. 😉

    As a result of all the photos of the march yesterday showing all those “brave” souls hiding their cowardly faces we now know for certain that any Muslim woman in Scotland who wishes to wear the burqa now has the full support of the Union Bears. 😀

    To be honest I’m not convinced they would be all that happy to have this support but hey sometimes you just have to go with the flow. 😀

  111. geeo says:

    @arbroath1320…Genius !! Well played.

  112. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Gfaetheblock @ 12:57,

    “Repeal and replace”? What a joke.

    If you really think Dimwit Kelly or Holier-than-thou Harvie has got that just “ready to roll”, I pity your boundless naivety.

    Repeal was a deeply cynical stunt. There ain’t a replacement comin’, not tomorrow, not ever. Not from any of them anyway. Don’t know what cloudland Harvie is inhabiting, but the BritNat Coalition really needs to keep their remnant bigots voters onside.

    So don’t hold your breath. It would be very bad for your longevity. (But I suppose you would at least miss all the eventual disillusionment.)

  113. galamcennalath says:

    I’m beginning to think the loyal msm use omission as their preferred tactic more and more. Usually combined with deflection …. ‘look over here’.

    The shine is coming off the crude fabrication tactics. Fakery is being seen by more and more folks. So now it’s omission. Don’t report anything damaging to the UKOK agenda.

    Not just in a Scottish constitutional sense, everything. Brexit to the US to Saudi Arabia.

    An OT Brexit example … Davis hasn’t been to Brussels for nearly three months, allegedly! The imminent talks were supposed to be about transition arrangement but all they will discuss is technical issues about what was supposed to be agreed in Dec. It was agreed then in order to allow talks on transition.

    It’s all stalled but the loyal media are hiding this IMO.

    On the ‘grooming’ of Brit Nat thuggery, it’s all happening before our eyes, yet that’s just not being reported.

  114. heedtracker says:

    Shug says:
    12 March, 2018 at 1:42 pm
    You said Cathcart children were blocked from attending schools in glasgow

    When did this haappen

    Not that long ago.

    This act was intended to end school bigotry, partly. Gaelic banned outright obvs.

    Then this,

  115. Big Jock says:

    Here is the law on the wearing of masks. The police knew in advance this was going to take place. So they could have arranged the appropriate section order to remove masks. No removal is an offence if ordered!

    5)If an inspector gives an authorisation under subsection , he must, as soon as it is practicable to do so, cause an officer of or above the rank of superintendent to be informed.

    (6)Any authorisation under this section—
    (a)shall be in writing and signed by the officer giving it; and
    (b)shall specify—
    (i)the grounds on which it is given;
    (ii)the locality in which the powers conferred by this section are exercisable;
    (iii)the period during which those powers are exercisable;
    and a direction under subsection (4) shall also be given in writing or, where that is not practicable, recorded in writing as soon as it is practicable to do so.

    (7)A person who fails to remove an item worn by him when required to do so by a constable in the exercise of his power under this section shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale or both.

  116. Clootie says:

    I am sick to death of hearing the arguement
    a) ….existing law should deal with it.
    b) …it is only a few.
    c) …they do not represent my team.

    The act was a clear message that society did not accept such behaviour. BOTH camps of bigots demanded the right to continue this obscene behaviour. Although I have to accept that one team in particular has a more aggressive following.

    So Labour / LibDems / Tories and Greens unite to quibble over the quality of the Law and chose not to accept the public support in regard the signal to bigots.

    The football clubs shrug and plead that it has nothing to do with them.

    One political party has voters in the “Union” camp. One had voters in the “Other” camp.
    …a pity that being Scottish is of such little importance.

    In the 21st. Century the alignment of one group to an Empire who suppressed and aggressively bullied their own nation and Ireland is astounding.

    Well Scotland…YOU keep voting for unionist parties who fan these flames!!!
    As for the Greens…a total mystery but not the first time has their vote surprised me.

  117. Robert Peffers says:

    @squirrel says: 12 March, 2018 at 10:16 am:

    “When you separate kids from the same street at School based on their religion your already setting the youth up to hate one another.”

    Absolute and utter pish! Squirrel. In fact, if you knew what you were spouting pish about you would know that what is usually called a, “Protestant”, school is legally called a non-denominational School. i.e. it is not legally able to discriminate against anyone.

    The legal position in regards to those schools that are set up by religious bodies, not just the Roman Catholics, cannot legally discriminate against anyone on the grounds of their religious, (or for that matter any other grounds).

    I was born into a family where both sets of grandparents were mixed RC/Protestan marriages as were my own parents. We children attended whatever school was nearest to home or whichever our parents though might be the better school.

    I thus attended both. I never, in my entire time in the Scottish education system, detected any attempts by teachers to influence me in any religion. However, I can vouch for the fact that Wee Tim and Wee Wullie arrived in Primary one already little sectarians.

    There are two schools in this village and last time I checked there were no vacancies in the RC school and there were Protestants on the waiting list as well as several other denominations and not all were Christian. It was generally known in the village that the RC school was the better choice.

    I say again since the RC church agreed to join the state school system it has been illegal for them to refuse to teach anyone on the grounds of their religion. What is more the RC church has never charged the state for the buildings, equipment, grounds or for the continued expense of training HC teachers.

    Neither Non-Dom or RC schools are to blame for sectarianism.

    That comes 100% from their home upbringing – nothing more and nothing less. I was treated as a Proddie at RC schools and as a cafflik at non-dom schools and never was influenced by the teaching staff in either. BTW: No one is forced in either to take part in any form of religious education.

    Tell you what, though, I’ve never heard of any RCs campaigning to close Protestant Schools or even against segregation – strange that!

  118. harry mcaye says:

    One of that mob’s rare non-offensive chants yesterday included the line “most successful club in football”. That’s a club with ZERO European Cup/Champions League wins. So less successful than the twenty two clubs who have won the top honour in the European game, including a certain club from across the city. Real Madrid, with twelve wins, must look on enviously at this new club with a Petrofac Cup win and two lower league titles. I doubt the old club’s history of one Cup Winners Cup triumph unduly bothered them either.

  119. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Remember folks this scum is not representative of all rangers supporters. I know a few independence supporting gers supporters.”

    This should be pointed out more often. There are many indy supporting ‘Gers fans. And what they, more than anyone else, need to do right now is to organise themselves and call out these thugs who associate themselves with their club and just what to stir up trouble.

    And that goes for the ones on the Celtic side too – call out the thugs and trouble-makers for what they are. One thing is for sure – they are not football fans.

  120. starlaw says:

    Yesterdays disgrace in Glasgow had nothing to do with the Protestant religion. These thugs only religion is Rangers who sadly continued to exist. The Unionist Government parties have throughout history welcomed these thugs using them to do their bidding. I have heard no word yet from Ruth the Orange Lodge or Glasgow Rangers who are happy to welcome these thugs to Ibrox despite protests from normal fans who Ive read statements from on these sites that the OO are now in charge at Ibrox

  121. Giving Goose says:

    There needs to be a condemnation of this behaviour from Unionist politicians, e.g. The Scottish Labour Party.
    That would then marginalise these ultra unionists.
    Anyone got email addresses for Labour MPs and MSPs?
    Labour needs to be called out on this.
    If they do not condemn this then they are on the Bigot’s side.

    They are also then portrayed as Anti Catholic.
    And the answer, regardless of what it is, can be used to demonstrate that Labour supports one view point or the other.
    This can be used as leverage on Labour.
    Anyone got a form of words and a mechanism to do this?

  122. geeo says:

    @lou nisbet.

    Step back from the keyboard, you utter roaster.

    Issue of the day…pronouncing the word Holyrood…seriously !!

  123. Albert Herring says:

    @Lou Nisbet

    I was brought up just round the corner from Holyrood pronounced “Hollyrood”. Fraid you’re plain wrong.

  124. cctxt says:

    Dear Greens
    I would be grateful if you would remove my membership details forthwith from your records as I hereby resign my membership of the Scottish Green party.

    After witnessing the appalling scenes in Glasgow yesterday and the Green’s opportunistic support of anti-sectarian measures by the Scotgov I can’t in all honesty remain a member.

    I’d like to think that in an independent Scotland I’ll be able to look again at your party but until such times as that lofty goal has been achieved, I’ll not be deflected again from voting SNP on every ballot and Yes to indy at every opportunity.

    C Taylor

  125. starlaw says:

    Bigotry begins at home, mixing schools could only make it worse Imagine a scenario if wee Billy came home without his Rangers scarf. Who do you think wee Billies father would tell his son about who took it.
    Thankfully this scenario only applies to parts of Scotland, other parts are normal, it is dying out but may be some time yet.

  126. Proud Cybernat says:

    I’m sure SLabour MSPs spell it Hollierood.

    Don’t know their y’s fae their lies.

  127. wee bud says:

    I know of someone who was murdered over this bile in the nineties..
    Sad thing is the British Nationalists will keep stoking this hatred and the msm will ignore it..
    Imagine if a yes march had scum like this attached to it.. It would be propaganda gold for the British establishment..
    Nobody should underestimate the struggle ahead as these fascists would just disappear after a yes vote..
    I’m afraid the so called green brigade have played into their hands with their grievance culture.. If you want to play the victim card all the time this lot will be only to happy to accommodate them..
    Sad that some families mothers day out were spoiled but most non old firm fans know to stay clear of town centres and pubs when this hatefest is on. Especially in Glasgow and the west..

  128. Yerkitbreeks says:

    This is the lot who used to fill the ranks of the Cameronians – and a right unruly bunch they were too

  129. Desimond says:

    Lots of hand wringing here and cries of “Oh if only it could be like the rugby!”. If I can guarantee Ruth and JK Rowling wont show up then I’m happy to suffer idiots at the fitbaw.

    I just wonder if the Police kettled the Union bears…they were happy doing it to the Green Brigade when they marched.

  130. Big Jock says:

    There is a problem and it’s name is intolerance. 90% of the intolerance comes from Rangers, Unionists and protestants. They hate that Catholics even exist and they now despise the SNP because they don’t agree with their beloved fleg and union.

    Until you change the intolerance then you will never solve the problem. The law is not there to change the internal psyche of the bigot. It’s there to prevent the criminal actions of the bigot. James Kelly talks about education. That’s all very well. But you don’t allow criminals to break into houses and offer education as a punishment. You punish the crime and then try and treat the offender.

    Society needs protection from criminals while we try and change society.

  131. heedtracker says:

    wee bud says:
    12 March, 2018 at 2:35 pm
    I know of someone who was murdered over this bile in the nineties..
    Sad thing is the British Nationalists will keep stoking this hatred and the msm will ignore it..

    Before the OBFA, they used to headline it on national news, Scottish football violence. BBC Scotland in particular used to go massive with all kinds of vids, close up, grandstand views, commentaries etc.

    BBC Scotland even made documentaries about it all, sniggering talking head thugs explaining what their street fights were like, how they trapped rival visiting fans down allies, it was all very exciting they explained.

    They’d have on specialists, ex cops, psychologists, sociologists, Slabour liggers, all explaining how sectarian football violence like this weekend, is a normal, nae essential part of working class Scotland life.

    So its very odd to say the least, watching exact same beeb gimps going all coy of the Union Bears this week. Well its probably not the same gen beeb gimpery, a lot of moved onwards and upwards too.

  132. Dan Huil says:

    @galamcennalath 2:07 pm says:

    “I’m beginning to think the loyal msm use omission as their preferred tactic more and more. Usually combined with deflection …. ‘look over here’.”

    Exactly right, galamcennalath. The britnat media are beyond redemption. When the book is written about this period in Scotland’s history the britnat media will be rightly deserving of much condemnation.

  133. Golfnut says:

    ‘re Harvie and the Greens.

    Yesterday’s mob March provides Patrick Harvie and his party with the perfect opportunity to do an about face and support the retention of the OBFA, he would get a hell of a lot of good publicity, particularly if he stated his preparedness to work with the Scottish Government in reforming the bill.
    We will find out this week just what kind of politician Patrick Harvie is.

  134. Glenn Ford says:

    Interesting to see all these ‘fans’ wearing the Loyalist burqua.

  135. Andy-B says:

    We don’t want this Nazi saluting scum in Scotland. Of course the unionist politicians at Holyrood, the likes of the clown James Kelly, probably see it as a way to keep Scotland divided.

  136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Dan Huil @ 15:00,

    I second that.

    It’s much harder to complain to the BBC and the Dead Tree Funnies about omissions than comissions. Editorial judgement, y’know. (Not that even the most obvious of the comissions are given any serious consideration anyway, mind you.)

    Yes, I hope I’m still around when people start to “spill the beans”. Should be good theatre!

  137. mike cassidy says:

    For anybody thinking the march will change Patrick Harvie’s mind.

    The display of sectarian & far right hatred in Glasgow this weekend revolted every decent person. But those capitalising on it to save the deeply flawed #OBFA seem to be missing the point that the Act is still in force and clearly did nothing to prevent this from happening.

    From his twitter feed – @patrickharvie

  138. stu mac says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:
    12 March, 2018 at 10:44 am
    More-worringly, what was the local Police Scotland Divisional Commander doing? He or she had 48-hours warning, and could and should have stopped this illegal march at source.

    Perhaps masonry is still rife in the polis.

  139. heedtracker says:

    #OBFA seem to be missing the point that the Act is still in force and clearly did nothing to prevent this from happening.

    Neat politico’s cop out.

    He’s voted out a law that prevented Union Bear style er, Freedom of Expression since its inception.

    It all kicks off again a couple of days before OBFA is gone, voted out by Patrick and he’s says it not worked.

    So is it all back to Union Bear normal now because the OBFA has failed by, working, or is it the return of Freedom of Expression?

    We bumped in to Harvie at the top of Victoria a few months back and had a good crack with him but its never going to be the same again.

    Being Green really means jack shit in the UKOK Scotland zone.

  140. Ken500 says:

    Mixed schools do not make it worse. In areas/parts of the country with majority miixed schools (and other methods) These kind of problem are rare to even exist. Successful methods including complete bans on marches by the Police. Appropriate arrests. Efforts by sporting clubs. Family days and child appropriate participation. Have all worked.

    It is particular to the central belt and the south. These situations/problems exist because there has been no enough effort to tackle it. OFBA was the first step taken Although not perfect it was beginning to have a suitable affect. The only thing that has ever seemed to make much difference.

  141. heedtracker says:

    Perhaps masonry is still rife in the polis.

    More to the point, why are Scottish Police not required to issue public statements about this weekend?

    They are in the EU and the US.

  142. Tinto Chiel says:

    “The display of sectarian & far right hatred in Glasgow this weekend revolted every decent person. But those capitalising on it to save the deeply flawed #OBFA seem to be missing the point that the Act is still in force and clearly did nothing to prevent this from happening.”

    You can have all the laws in the world, Patrick, but if the police don’t enforce them, they’re useless.

    Also, one of the arguments used to oppose OBFA was that there were existing laws to tackle this kind of behaviour and the new act was therefore superfluous. What happened to those laws yesterday, then? Or are they bad ones too?

    Mr Harvie has made a very bad decision but is too much of an egotist to back down.

    Deeply depressing.

  143. Proud Cybernat says:

    Scotland has laws on many things that don’t fully work as they should. Take the crime of ‘theft’ for example. Will we be scrapping the law on theft in Scotland because it doesn’t quite work as it should?

  144. One_Scot says:

    ‘Perhaps masonry is still rife in the polis’, Lol, “Perhaps”, I’m saying nothing.

  145. Jim Graham says:

    @Robert Peffers, 12 March at 2:10 pm

    “Neither Non-Dom or RC schools are to blame for sectarianism.”

    I too was in a family of mixed religions. I was brought up in the town of Helensburgh in the protestant tradition in line with my mother because my father had a row at some time with the catholic priest for reasons he never disclosed and refused to have my sister and I brought up in the Catholic way. All of my 50 cousins and their respective parents on my father’s side were Catholic.

    Until I started work as an apprentice in the shipyard at Dumbarton I had never experienced any sectarianism in Helensburgh. The first thing people asked me on my first day at work was “What school did you go to?” I witnessed institutional sectarianism in the workplace in more than one firm and discrimination due to religion.

    Later in life I got a degree in physics and computing and started training as a secondary school teacher in 1987. All of my training took part in non-denominational schools in Glasgow and Renfrewshire and I never once saw any sectarian behaviour. I also discovered that both catholic and protestant teachers taught in those schools. Something I was unaware of up untill then. In fact in one of the schools the head of the biology department was a catholic.

    My placing as a qualified teacher was in a Roman Catholic high school in Inverclyde and again I never witnessed any sectarian behaviour in the 21 years I spent there until I retired. We were in a consortium with the local non-denominational school so for certain subjects pupils would swap schools and again without any problem at all. Before retiring I was head of the computing department so neither was there any discrimination against teacher on religious grounds.

    The local Bishop visited the school and on that day teachers were put in groups to discuss the ethos of the school. When our group reported back I said that apart from the crucifixes on the walls of the classrooms you would not find any difference between our school and a non denominational school. The Bishop’s reply was “Good”.

    I have no idea if any of the pupils held sectarian views but I certainly never heard them expressed.

    So I agree with Robert, the schools do not breed or foster sectarianism nor are we born with it. It comes from the home.

  146. Bob Mack says:

    Many of you will already know that Scotland,especially the West of Scotland has deep sectarian roots. The Orange Order and the Republican movement found much support here in Scotland.

    A little ordinary working guy from Provan in Glasgow called Henry Rossini was cremated and his ashes put on the grave of Bobby Sands in Ireland because of the amount of money he collected here in Scotland which was sent to the Republicans in Ireland.

    The Orange Order is the cover organisation for N Ireland paramilitaries who along with Republicans control most of the drug routes in and out of the UK. I could name you several ordinary Glasgow blokes who are high ranking in these protestant paramilitary groups, but have lived all their life in Glasgow.

    Jonny Adair and his clan the Shankill Butchers have moved here from N Ireland.

    I suppose it is tolerated by the security services in whose interests and at whose bequest these guys murdered others.

    It is time it was put to bed once and for all.Scotland must rid itself of either their hatred or of the people themselves.

  147. Movy says:

    Off topic but this was reported in the Sunday Herald yesterday. I don’t know if it’s had coverage elsewhere, but I think this needs to be seen and digested by those proud Scots (like Davidson). “Tory MP Bernard Jenkin addressing the devolution conference organised last week by the Brexit think tank, UK in a Changing Europe” said “that Scotland and Wales had been “allowed to vote in our EU referendum””. I find this one of the most offensive remarks I have ever seen reported anywhere.

  148. Abulhaq says:

    Scottish sectarianism aka anti~Catholicism has the potential to destroy any hope of our country’s independence.
    Anti-Catholicism was a major theme in Unionist politics until the 1960’s before it went underground. Any revival of this theme is socially and politically retrograde. That Labour and Greens have climbed on this divisive Unionist vehicle in the name of supposed ‘freespeech’ is sickening.
    The British state has exploited ethnic, religious and cultural differences in every one of its former colonies.
    Scotland, as one of the last, is getting the usual treatment.
    Catholicism is not a foreign ‘cult’. It has deep, ancient roots in our country. I do wonder if these lawmakers read their country’s history or visit countries where mindless sectarian bigotry is an ongoing social problem.
    One Northern Ireland is enough.

  149. Ken500 says:

    @ Proud Cypernat @ 12.29pm

    Your wee links always raise a laugh. Jackie O NO (kudos)

    Appreciated { ; )

  150. Gullane No4 says:

    Does anyone know the exact numbers of Blackshirts marching.
    There does not seem to be very many.
    If that is the case are we not giving them the publicity they seek.
    A bit like the 20 odd marching Orange men being escorted by 25 police on a closed road.

    Their numbers a dwindling, perhaps we should ignore them and they will just shrivel away.

  151. heedtracker says:

    One Northern Ireland is enough.

    You are over playing this though.

    Out of the whole of Scotland, only Glasgow with Dundee, voted YES.

    A solid YES Glasgow for nation state Scotland, despite the OO, Union Bears, my Slovene girlfriend, appalling BBC Scotland creep out attack propaganda, in Govan, sneaky creepy wee tory gimps at STV, next door, in Govan, really nasty vote No or else Daily Record, over the Squinty Bridge, who knows what kinds of UKOK spooks creeping about in Glasgow… yet in spite of all that, Glasgow voted YES, for Scotland.

    Proportionality matters here. Its probably why the cops just let the Union Bears get on with it. They are a tiny minority, in Scotland.

  152. Valerie says:

    Shame on Scotland that this filth is on our streets. This is being stoked, and I defy the Green party to deny that.

    I suppose it’s just coincidence that this organised scum materialises just as Holyrood attempts to stand up to Westminster power grab.

    Who would doubt that there are plants, paid by the state, stirring this up, with lots of idle, stupid young knuckledraggers, only to eager to play this violent game.

    Look at these pictures, here and on Twitter, they are all wearing the same balaclavas, like they were bulk bought.

    WTF are Police Scotland thinking, that this display in Glasgow, with images flying around, shows them in anything like in control of their remit?

    The post referendum mob was not communicated, this march was advertised, ffs!!! It’s aim is to intimidate the population, and I will be asking my MSP for an explanation.

    I am sickened beyond belief. If we can’t control this shit, we are fucked.

    Pretty sure this is the start. The start of our end.

  153. shug says:


    these links do not mention catholic children being banned from schools – that sounds like nonsense

    my understanding was that in the 1800s many schools were closely tied to local churches and the 1918 act simply ensured they became a local authority responsibility. Catholic churches were in the same position and ensured they continued the link with the school while C of S did not

  154. auld highlander says:

    The senior cop who let that so called march go ahead should be hung drawn and quartered. There is no way that mob of thuggish imbeciles should have been allowed on the streets and the organiser/organisers should be prosecuted for inciting racial hatred.

  155. shug says:

    I want to know what the police are doing about masked black shirts causing chaos on the streets, threatening other groups and people and setting off fire works in public places recklessly are doing about it

    That the BBC suppress in their coverage suggest state sponsorship but I expect police Scotland to be above this

  156. Douglas says:

    Is the final assent to repeal the OBFA tomorrow a given??? Is there any possibly that any MSP’s could have a change of mind and halt the process, or is it too late?

  157. Les Wilson says:

    auld highlander says:

    Unless voices from on high, told them to just let it happen.

  158. heedtracker says:

    shug says:
    12 March, 2018 at 4:31 pm

    these links do not mention catholic children being banned from schools – that sounds like nonsense

    Suit yourself.

  159. Les Wilson says:

    Valerie says:

    Yes the balaclavas look the same and must have been given out prior, they must have been sourced in bulk. I hardly think the dim wits would all go to the same shop, likely ordered on line from England somewhere. The badges were real nasty to someone made then as well, who?

    But also the flares, they are not corner shop sourced, either.
    So seems no investigation is apparent, I hope so but not convinced.
    This was all planned and they (the police) should be investigating and finding out just who the organisers of all this were. Unless of course they have been told not to?

    These people are easily persuaded to go down the rampant race route and someone, somewhere is using them for their own ends.
    Now who could that be, hmmm. This all stinks.

  160. Ann says:

    Scotland shame.
    I live in no that some. MSPs have had their eyes opened.
    The Act merely needs tweaked, not binned.

    This should have been stopped before it eve

  161. Mike Cassidy @3.36 pm
    We are to thank Mike for pointing out Patrick Harvie’s warped logic.
    From Harvie’s twitter account:-
    “The display of sectarian & far right hatred in Glasgow this weekend revolted every decent person. But those capitalising on it to save the deeply flawed #OBFA seem to be missing the point that the Act is still in force and clearly did nothing to prevent this from happening.”
    Mr Harvie, we are ‘capitalising’ on nothing. Our streets were given over to a mob of fascist violent scum with the tacet approval of the True Blue Establishment.

    Our police could not enforce the OBFA because there were too many idiots threatening violence. The mob ruled.
    Mr Harvie, the Green vote will evaporate at the next plebiscite held Up Here.

    You are so naïve or pig headed, it’s time for you to go.
    These thugs and villains are the storm troopers of your bed mates, Kelly, Fraser, and Tomkins. Are you really that thick that you don’t even realise when they are using you?

    Our very way of life is being threatened here, and all you can do is contemplate your navel in Holyrood.
    Either piss, or get off the fucking pot.
    Singlehandedly you have destroyed the Green Party Up Here.
    You have completely failed to understand the public mood on this.
    75% and more of football fans support some form of OBFA, but no, you know better?
    James Kelly must be laughing his head off at you.

  162. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Movy@4.06pm

    That is offensive as you say, for a ‘Brexit think tank’ to actually state that ‘Scotland and Wales had been allowed to vote in our EU referendum’, just takes the biscuit and is indicative of the attitude from those with backward, colonial mindsets towards others who they view as irrelevant, and/or inferior.

    It is very much that colonial mindset that would deny Scotland any rights at all, and would certainly not hesitate to dismantle the Scottish parliament.

    Again back to the disgusting ‘march’ by these right wing thugs, questions do need to be asked about the police, who might as well have not been there. They seem to be having a right old time and some smiling away in some of the photos. Sinister, or were they playing it down? There needs to be an inquiry anyway.

  163. Golfnut says:

    @ Mike Cassidy

    I wasn’t anticipating that Harvie would grasp the nettle, just observing that circumstances had given him an opportunity to do so.

  164. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Robert Peffers at 2.10

    So very well said, Robert. Should be read by everybody.

  165. Hamish100 says:

    Using harvies logic we should remove all speed limit laws because we don’t have enough police

    Greens you have it all wrong. Propose something better or stronger or keep quiet. Presume the BBC will run with an extended interview with an ex snp MSP meaning they will run out of time to mention the bigots

  166. Rab McKnight says:

    I was against this law from the start, for the simple reason that it was redundant.. A duplication of laws already om the statutes- eg. Breach of the Peace, Affray, Assault, Mobbing and Rioting, Terrorism, Hate Crime, etc.
    The law’s sole purpose was to stigmatise all football supporters, as a way for politicians to appear to be ‘doing something’ when all that was required is for existing laws to be enforced and punished appropriately in the courts.

  167. Martin says:

    I’ll probably get pelters for this, as a Celtic fan, but it’s time to dock points from the clubs. Neither club has seriously worked on this if we’re honest. Lots of face showing and brow furrowing, but when 100s of fans are captured on TV spewing bilge, there should be a “ban them or lose X points.”

    It may even make the league more competitive. In the medium to long term we’d see sectrianism gone from football. What fan seriously wants to ruin their club’s chances?

  168. Richard Hunter says:

    I’m going to stick my neck out here and suggest that these folk are being a bit ‘divisive’.
    Has Ruth commented yet?

  169. wull2 says:

    I will keep it short, just vote YES next time.

  170. This gets beamed all around the world. They bum up the Old Firm Match as one of the world’s great derbies.
    Glasgow folk hate each other, because we are all bitter Proddies or Kafflicks. Who would want to come here, work, settle, bring up a family if we are a bunch of hate filled fascists and thugs?
    I’ve just watched the Saltmarket footage of animals kicking lumps out of each other in broad daylight, stopping traffic and threatening motorists.
    And Harvie accuses us of ‘capitalising’ on this affront to civilisation as a ruse to preserve some form of OBFA legislation.
    Harvie, get a serious grip. man.

  171. Breeks says:

    I see the attempt, but not the success in the Usterisation of Scotland.

    Look at these diddies in the black. They are no different from all the other “Ultra” trash which shames and discredits Nations with a far right issue, like Russian and Polish football hooligans, bored, damaged in the head, and spoiling for a punch up.

    These are not people who can hold our Nation to ransom. They are just angry young bucks too stupid to see how they are being used and manipulated. They are leftover relics of a time in Scotland which is drawing to its close. Their “grievance” doesn’t even concern Scotland, but has its origins in Northern Ireland, once again, as useful pawns for the British Imperialism which does its sleekit dirty work by proxy.

    Look at their “inspiring” figureheads – James Kelly who seems too intellectually sub normal to understand how stupid he actually is, and his brother in harms, the “kiss-the-arse-of-anything-British” Ruth Davidson, celebrity gobshite and pandered narcissist. – “Professional” politicians who’s primary objective is close down political discourse and deny Scotland’s people fundamental access to democracy. For “No to a Second Referendum” read “If you won’t play the game our way, we’ll take away your ball”.

    The days of their cultural sectarian ugliness are numbered in Northern Ireland, just as they are coming to an end here in Scotland. In time, both Ireland and Scotland will reject this toxic infection, just as any healthy body eventually expels a foreign organism which doesn’t belong.

    The best reaction I have seen to these “wannabe-fascists”, was the genius clip of their “ever so menacing bouncing up and down” set to the Village People’s YMCA. Have yourselves a merry little giggle…

  172. Gullane No4 says:

    You mend from within, keep the act and amend the flawed bits at Holyrood.
    I assume The Scottish Greens are now going to propose a new law to address the overwhelming support for this process that has come from the Scottish public.

  173. Al Dossary says:


    Nice theory but the SFA and the league quite frankly do not have the balls to stand up to the bigot brothers to actually enforce it. This much has been proved tone and time again.

    Hell, even the police did not have the balls to entire the OBAF act in its entirety where the bigot brothers were concerned. Woe betide any teenager who opened his mouth at Killie, Partick or Motherwell however.

    Case and point was the TV money deals. The likes of Motherwell would have games against the bigot brothers televised (I believe the deal was no more than 6 live games from any particular club ground in a season).

    The £60k payment gor the live game never really made up gor the fact that the gate was on average 3k down on what it would have been for a 3pm kickoff, so any payment just went to offset the loss in gate revenue from the now non-travelling bigots who decide to stay home or in their local to watch it.

    Turkeys and chicken springs toin for the other 10 clubs who agreed to the deal.

  174. Iain mhor says:

    @ Robert J. sutherland 12:28pm
    Fear not, I am perfectly aware of the poll results.
    The “if” is yet to be determined.
    If those members misinterpreted the will of the populace and the populace act against them because of it, then q.e.d they screwed up.
    If there are no repercussions against them – then they did not misinterpret anything, despite what a poll indicated.
    If the will to do something about it does not materialise as action against them, they are vindicated.
    People have to walk the walk, not just talk it by ticking a survey. We shall find out soon enough I think.
    They may yet be forced to not only back new legislation, but draft it.

  175. Bobp says:

    Artyhetty 5.07pm .I thought it was only me who noticed the policeman on the left smirking. There’s a lot more to this than meets the eye.

  176. Dan Huil says:

    @Richard Hunter 5:24 pm says:

    “I’m going to stick my neck out here and suggest that these folk are being a bit ‘divisive’.
    Has Ruth commented yet?”

    Nice one, Richard. Last I’ve heard she’s invited all her knuckle-dragging britnat chums round for tea and cakes. Apparently she has a “flare” for baking.

  177. Valerie says:

    Oh well, Scottish independence recedes into the distance,,because we will soon be at war with Russia.

    PM statement on Salisbury has turned into an hour of hate, with not a shred of evidence given. The Russian consulate has until tomorrow to respond, and if they dont like it, there will be ‘action taken’

    SNP fully on board.

    Conscription any day now.

  178. Dan Huil says:

    @Valerie 5:54pm

    I bet britnats thought that about Ireland when WWI broke out.

  179. Dan Huil says:

    Latest view from Mike Russell about britnat power-grabbing:

    “The UK Government has today tabled amendments to the clauses in the EU Withdrawal Bill relating to devolution. The fact that these amendments have been tabled is recognition on the part of the UK Government that its original approach was deeply flawed.

    None the less I must be clear at the outset that, whilst we welcome that recognition, the amendments tabled today have not been agreed with the Scottish and Welsh Governments and are not supported by us.

    The amendments replace the previous blanket reservation of devolved areas which are subject to retained EU law, with a power for the UK Government to make regulations in the UK Parliament imposing such a restriction in any such devolved areas. In exercising this power the UK Government would only be under a duty to consult the devolved administrations and provide information to the UK Parliament on the effect of the regulations and that consultation. There would be no need for such changes to be agreed by the Devolved Parliaments or Governments.

    The amendments also signal an intended temporary nature of the constraints created by the use of the power, including requirements to report to the UK Parliament on progress in establishing frameworks and removing the restrictions created by this regulation. They include a power enabling restrictions to be removed when new legislation is enacted or it is decided no such provision is required.

    However, they still fall well short of arrangements that could be recommended for legislative consent by the devolved governments.

    In particular, a requirement only to consult the devolved administrations means that in practice the UK Government could ultimately make regulations notwithstanding the opposition of the devolved administrations, entirely at its discretion, with no safeguards to protect the interests of the devolved legislatures; and with none of the agreed constitutional arrangements in place that we would be entitled to expect if devolved competence is to be adjusted, even for a temporary period.

    It therefore remains essential that any regulations made under this power be approved by the devolved legislatures as well as by the UK Parliament, in line with the current and long standing constitutional arrangements in the devolution settlements.

    The UK Government has indicated that it intends that constraints introduced in these regulations to be temporary and has separately indicated that it hopes that consequent frameworks will be agreed, not imposed. They also maintain that it is likely that these frameworks will be established in further primary legislation, which should trigger the need for legislative consent to be given.

    However, whatever the intention, any matters covered by regulations will in effect be reserved, even if on a temporary basis. That would mean that the devolved legislatures could not be certain that the Sewel convention, through which their agreement is sought for primary legislation, would apply in the normal way to UK legislation, made in relation to those matters. The UK Government have refused to confirm that it would.

    As described below, frameworks may cover wide areas of key concern to Scotland. It is essential therefore that as well as agreeing the regulations to give effect to a temporary constraint, that changes are made to put it beyond doubt that the devolved legislatures agreement is required for any follow on primary legislation to establish frameworks.

    Moreover, although the amendments signal an intention to have only temporary restrictions, this is entirely at the discretion of the UK Government. Unlike other regulation-making powers in the Bill, there is no provision for this power to expire. Nor is there any guarantee that any restrictions would end. Under its amendments that is entirely at the discretion of the UK Government and they have refused to agree to a sunset clause The amendments need to be considered alongside the provisional analysis published last week by the UK Government of where devolved competence intersects with EU law. That analysis runs to 153 different areas, divided into 3 different categories, of which the UK Government suggests 82 may require non-legislative frameworks and 24 where a legislative framework may be required.

    The analysis includes areas of devolved competence of vital interest to Scotland and the Scottish economy, such as, agriculture, fishing, environmental policy, public procurement and food standards. The UK Government also claims that areas such as Geographical Food Indicators and State Aids are reserved, though both devolved administrations dispute that and the previous version of the list did not make that assertion.

    All the areas covered are of vital importance for our industries and our economy and the effect of the amendments now tabled in the House of Lords will be to allow the UK Government to unilaterally take control of any or indeed all of these devolved areas – whether that be the 24 areas of vital interest to Scotland where they say they believe legislation is required, or the remaining 131 areas in its analysis. In addition the UK Government has confirmed to the devolved administrations that it may bring forward further subjects not presently on the list as published if it deems it necessary.

    The Scottish Parliament is being asked to agree these amendments with no certainty about the areas in which frameworks will be established, how these will work, how they will be governed and how we will go from temporary restrictions to longer terms solutions. That is unacceptable.

    Clearly we cannot agree to such proposals. The devolution settlement cannot be changed, even temporarily, without the consent of the Scottish Parliament.

    The UK Government believes that it must have these extraordinary powers to unilaterally change the devolution settlement because it is concerned that it may prove to be difficult to agree regulations, subsequent frameworks, or because changes may have to be considered late in the day as the shape of the future deal with the EU becomes clear. This is despite the fact that the Scottish Government has consistently made clear that we are not opposed to common frameworks where these are in the best interests of Scotland and are ready to work with the UK Government to agree where these may be required.

    Last Thursday the Welsh and Scottish Governments offered new proposals that would take care of the UK Governments concerns, including a commitment to not withholding agreement unreasonably and to a written agreement on these matters. The UK Government went ahead and tabled their amendments without responding to those offers, but they will remain on the table, first of all for the JMC (P) this week.

    There can be no justification for the UK Government to take these powers to unilaterally impose changes to devolution, to disregard the rights of the Scottish Parliament and ride roughshod over the devolution settlement, a settlement which reflects the settled will of the Scottish people. As the First Minister has said, it is inconceivable that any First Minister would recommend that course of action to the Parliament.

    The Scottish Government has consistently said that we want an agreed solution. Together with the Welsh Government we have previously tabled amendments that would both protect devolution and allow common frameworks to be put in place. If, as it claims, the UK Government is committed to acting in the interests of the people of Scotland and to respect the devolved institutions overwhelmingly supported by them, then it should even at this late stage bring forward changes to give effect to this, or agree to those which have proposed.

    We remain ready to discuss those changes, but in the meantime we will press ahead with our EU Continuity Bill, which received majority backing across the Scottish Parliament last week and the amending process for which commences on Tuesday 13th March.”

    Yours sincerely


  180. Valerie says:

    Just incredible, there is a Wiki page up and running on the Novichok agent, and May referring to it being Russia behind the Salisbury incident.

    The arm of state propaganda is efficient.

  181. Valerie says:

    @ Dan Huil

    Sadly, we don’t have the balls of the Irish, who clearly stated that was their opportunity.

    I actually found the SNP statements a bit shocking. They joined in the loud hatefest.

    They are now chatting army forces, NATO, Estonia. That’s the side they are on now.

    DUP are positively drooling, shouting ‘show of strength’

    It’s one huge circle jerk. It’s disgusting.

  182. geeo says:

    Have people ever considered they may be over reacting slightly ?

    Or playing into the “hate the greens” mantra, just before their votes ARE NEEDED to pass the Bill to enable an indyref ?

    Now, i’m not suggesting the greens would suddenly become anti indyref, but do we really want to allow Unionists to split us at a time when we need to show a united front on the bigger picture !

    Ok, the OBFA will be going, but look, we can point to these Unionist morons behaviour, and take the moral high ground just by saying “look what happens when we allow sectarianism to go unchecked..remember WHO exactly voted for this” etc..

    Meanwhile, on with more important issues…

  183. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Valerie –

    Hear hear.

    Share your disgust, totally. Couldn’t believe Ian Blackford’s statement.

    Still seems no-one in MSM is able to point out the simple fucking fact that Porton Down is just over five miles away from where that dude and his daughter were ‘attacked’ by Russia.

    I did a wee Twitter poll over the weekend asking people who they trusted more – ‘Russians’ or ‘Tories’. Over 3.5k votes – 93% for the ‘Russians’.

  184. Ghillie says:

    I would hold any Green MSP in high esteem who had the courage to change their mind and their vote on the OBFA.

    Will any other unionist MSP have the integrity and courage to put the people of Scotland before their whips’ ill judged orders?

  185. Valerie says:

    Bloody hell, just tweeted by David Clegg

    “James Dornan, a senior MSP, has made a serious complaint about Mark McDonald’s behaviour to one of his staff.”

    McDonald is returning to Holyrood tomorrow, and they have moved his office into the basement!!WTAF?

    Just what SNP need just now.

  186. Bob Mack says:

    They know it was Novichok that poisoned the three people.

    How did they know. ? You can only identify a substance and its origins if you have experience of it yourself.
    Like asking someone what is tomato sauce if they have never seen it.

  187. Wee Chid says:

    Shug says:

    12 March, 2018 at 9:52 am

    “This is simply the unionist camp crystallising their support and organising it into one manageable group to enable them to arm them during indyref2”

    I agree. I’m convinced they’ll try to frighten us into voting No through violence rather than lies this time. “This is what will happen if you vote Yes” type of thing.

  188. Play Rangers Celtic matches in empty stadiums in empty stadiums at 7 a.m. on Sunday mornings. Show recordings on t.v. at midnight.

  189. Andy-B says:

    Jeez, if it wasnt evident of how anti-SNP thus Scottish independence, the Scottish BBC branch of the news and STV news are,tonights titanically long interviews of sex pest Mark MacDonald (he’s ex-SNP so highly smearable to the SNP) it is now.

    It was almost Michelle Thomson-esque,(she was completely exonerated) as both the BBC news and STV news constantly reminded us that MacDonald was once a SNP minister.

    I don’t recall those news channels cover Ruth Davidson’s vile Tory MP’s/Councillors and MSP’s, in such depth, who’ve demonstrated their xenophobia, among other unsavoury traits on several occasions.

  190. Jock McDonnell says:

    Nasty BBC smear job, guilt by association there for Mr Salmond who has a show you know where, asked for a comment before May’s statement. The channel in question is right now headlining with May’s accusations.

  191. Dorothy Devine says:

    Valerie , STV news have been dining on the unfortunate MSP – ending the piece as they did previously with ,”Where else could he get a job paying 62,000 a year ?” with me screaming ‘on telly !” at the screen.

    I am pig sick of the crap we are being fed and utterly appalled by the Russia gate manipulation. If the SNP have joined with the baying bloodthirsty warmongering bastards at Westminster I will seriously consider my membership.

    Does anyone with half a brain believe that the Russian government would use such a silly method to rid their world of a ("Tractor" - Ed) – years after his release form a Moscow jail.

    Do you not think a wee bullet in the heid quietly delivered would have left Britain’s finest with a murder to solve and not a political opportunity for this crass Russia BAD , and a ‘ get RT off our airwaves lest the people hear truth that we don’t want them to ‘excuse.

    Getting awfully ANGRY!

  192. heedtracker says:

    The channel in question is right now headlining with May’s accusations.

    C4 teatime news, are the English not going to the Russian World Cup hints?

    UKOK zone’s a very strange place.

  193. Capella says:

    I agree with the voters who would trust the Russians before they would trust a Tory politician. But it’s not a very high bar to jump.
    I haven’t heard the speech in Westminster from Ian Blackford but it is my experince that the SNP takes a very conventional line over these matters. Whether they are being diplomatic, or they really believe that Putin is a master criminal with a vast spider web of spies and malificents, I’ve no idea.

    But this episode will certainly keep BREXIT off the front pages for a few days and frighten the public.

    A CNN report that went out before the “reveal”. Asks some pertinent questions which have evaded our native journalists.

  194. Ghillie says:

    Valerie @ 6.35 pm

    The SNP are showing their integrity by continuing to hold Mark Mcdonald to account. Even though he is no longer any part of the SNP.

    James Dornan made his complaint to the Standards Committee as he said that Mark McDonald being in the Parliament would be a clear negation of its duty of care after McDonald admitted to inappropriate behaviour to two women who worked there, one of whom continues to feel intimidated by him.

    Parliamentary authorities moved his office to the basement to keep him away from and to protect the women who had cause to stand up to his behaviour.

    The First Minister, some days ago, called on Mark Mcdonald to resign his seat and allow his constituency the opportunity to choose a new MSP or indeed, I’m guessing, himself if they still want him to represent them.

    Mark Mcdonald, who is no longer in the SNP party, now Independent, seems very determined to carry on as normal which does ring alarm bells for me. And his ex colleagues are not letting him get away with it.

    Hard for the the Scottish Government to have to deal with this right now but what impresses me is that the SNP, unlike the other parties, do not shrink back from the hard stuff.

    And on that note, the OBFA should be kept in place until any necessary fitting amendments can be made. Come on Greens, think!!

  195. Jock McDonnell says:

    @heedtracker it is indeed.

    England pulling out of the WC2018 – nobody outside England cares. It ain’t gonna happen anyway. Poor old TM.

  196. starlaw says:

    Someone will have to wash those pigeons feet, they are being allowed to stroll willy nilly through a crime scene.

  197. Bill Hume says:

    The green party need to grow a set……admit they got it wrong and then put that wrong right.

    I’ve given up on Labour to do anything right.

  198. Dan Huil @6.02 tonight.
    Thanks for the Mike Russell statement on Mundell’s Power Grab.
    Of course BBC Reporting from the Pacific Quay Stockade does not consider this as news of any sort, or the alarming fact that fascists stalked our streets of yesterday in search of Catholics to kick, escorted by police..
    The Old Unionist Establishment True Blue kicks in. BBC Scotland is riddled with them. Same schools, Unis, backgrounds and belief systems. God Save the Queen and their blessed Union.
    Feed the Plebs what we want them to hear or see, not what they need to say or hear.
    Where’s Nick Eardley to tell us all off for wanting real news, not Jackie Bird pap for the masses?
    From Mike Russell’s statement:-
    “That would mean that the devolved legislatures could not be certain that the Sewell convention, through which their agreement is sought for primary legislation, would apply in the normal way to UK legislation, made in relation to those matters. The UK Government have refused to confirm that it would.”
    They are destroying Devolution and laughing at the people of Scotland, and Jackie Bird and the Beeb Blahs headline with a disgraced former SNP alleged sex pest.
    Aye, right.
    They must surely beware of the growing rage and revulsion their manipulation of news and politics is generating.

  199. heedtracker says:

    Jock McDonnell says:
    12 March, 2018 at 7:17 pm
    @heedtracker it is indeed.

    England pulling out of the WC2018 – nobody outside England cares. It ain’t gonna happen anyway. Poor old TM.

    They’re up to something.

    Teresa’s marching planet toryboy up to the top of the UKOK hill, its unlikely its for the view.

    Other thug life news, faces covered Union Bears style again. Although it looks like a fascist getting thumped this time.

  200. Tinto Chiel says:

    Not at all happy with the SNP’s position on Russia but I suppose it’s not all that surprising. They don’t want a “stooges of the Kremlin” stick to add to the other ones they are whacked with by the MSM.

    I’m pretty sure one objective of all this kerfuffle (for which HMG has provided no proof whatsoever in eight days) is the shutting down of RT in the UK.

    The state propagandist doesn’t like competition, you see.

    There are no white hats and black hats in espionage/state terrorism and the UK, serial illegal invader of other countries along with the US, is in no position to give anyone moral homilies.

    Brexit? What Brexit?

  201. Dan Huil says:

    Britnat threats to Russia are empty. There ain’t no gunboats anymore.

    British nationalists won’t hand back all the money they’ve been given by Russians, that’s for sure.

    Britnat hypocrisy will continue. And more and more people in Scotland will see it as such.

    As for the world cup… don’t make me laugh.

  202. Orri says:

    Not that I should give advice to numpties but.

    The smirk on that PCs face is possibly because they have enough evidence to identity every single one of those dickheads.

    Those wee black squares on the cop’s jackets are cameras. Video will have been taken of all those turning up at the muster point.

    Depending on the resolution they might have enough definition for iris recognition. At a minimum eye colour.

    They also have clear images of a major proportion of the face. Hair colour from eyebrows might match unless they dye it. Even the upper part of the nose is visible as will be freckles and other blemishes.

    Given surveillance of those not covering their faces and these idiots are wearing identifiable clothing. That public transport also have cameras. It’s a fair bet that if the police didn’t already know who those guys are they do now.

    Ski style balaclavas might make them feel a bit like Ninja but they really should have worn sunglasses.

  203. Dan Huil says:

    @Tinto Chiel 7:27pm

    Spot on, Tinto. Shutting down RT is the only thing britnats can do. They can run from the consequences of brexit – but not for long.

    Everything seems to be coming to a massive puss-filled head. Zap the britnat zit! The world will be a better-looking place for it.

  204. Nana says:


    Brace, brace. Crossbencher Lord Hope introducing an amendment to ensure powers under the EU Withdrawal Bill cannot be used to modify the Scotland Act 1998 without Scottish Parliament’s consent

  205. Macart says:

    Make sure you’re sitting down and have all throwable objects out of arms reach.

    Still, better together, lead with us, partnership of equals, vote no to guarantee your place in the EU, broad shoulders, pooling and sharing and of course…

    … the cheque’s in the post.

  206. Bob Mack says:


    I hear the police also filmed the section of the stand where the Union Bears were present. Possibly to establish presence at March and match. You may well be right.

  207. Nana says:

    James Kelly msp has a brass neck

  208. heedtracker says:

    Macart, two views in the UK Brexit zone…

    Ian Fraser
    Verified account


    Tory MP @bernardjenkin last week told a conference Scotland & Wales had been “allowed to vote in our EU referendum”, while dismissing as “fantasy” the idea @ScotParl could lose powers a result of EU Withdrawal Bill. Simply astounding. via @iainmacwhirter

    Michelle Graham #FBSI ???

    Very very interesting!! If Westminster push ahead with the EU reform Bill, ignoring Holyrood’s Continuity Bill. This will indeed be in direct breech of the Act of Union. Forcing a referendum but not on Independence but one to Dissolve the Union ????

  209. Valerie says:

    @ ghillie

    Completely agree with you, SNP have handled McDonald very well.

    Just the comment on Clegg’s Twitter about McDonald being banished to a basement makes him sound dangerous to be around, as if he needs a police presence.

    Journalists were warned not to look for this basement office.

    The guy should use his brain, and step down.

    I think the guy deserves everything he is getting.

    Such a disappointment.

  210. Indy2 says:

    The Rangers Ultra’s March took place on Copeland Rd yesterday,,Literally 60 seconds away from BBC Scotland’s HQ at pacific Quay in Glasgow.

    They could have had a full film crew round there in minutes.

    As per usual, they turned their Unionist blind eye to it.

  211. t42 says:

    @Bob Mack
    “The Greens will not be getting any votes from me again”
    *again* What were you thinking lol? Did you tick the wrong box?

  212. Tinto Chiel says:

    Thanks for those morsels, Nana and Macart.

    So the SNP is a “conveyor belt for Tory cuts”, according to John McDonnell, the same cuts that Labour either voted through or abstained on at Westminster.

    Stupidity or gross hypocrisy?

    Your choice.

    Further to my 7.27 comment, I hear Labour MPs are calling for RT’s broadcasting licence to be revoked.

  213. Rock says:

    “and the all-important Scottish Greens – to abolishing the Offensive Behaviour (Football) Act, against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of the Scottish population.”

    The fake “independence supporting” The National heavily promoted the Greens to deny the SNP a majority.

    Green activists posting here pretended to be SNP to dupe SNP supporters into giving their second vote to the Greens.

    Their task having been achieved, they have now disappeared from here but will come back before the next election.

    Anyone supporting independence should never give any vote to the Greens.

    Despite Nicola spectacularly squandering a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen, the SNP is the only choice for independence supporters.

  214. Rock says:

    David Smith,

    “It’s time to stop kidding ourselves; this is how the British always want it when they are losing a valuable colony.”

    But they are not going to lose this one any time soon.

    If Nicola had struck while the iron was hot and not spectacularly squandered a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity by wasting more than a year flogging a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen, Scotland would have been on the verge of independence.

    The SNP having 56 out of 59 MPs, 50% of the vote, a remain vote in Scotland, the EU’s eyes favourably) on Scotland, the unionist parties without leaders and completely lost.

    Instead of striking when the iron was hot, she tried to be ultra cautious.

    She was then outsmarted by the collusion between Saints Theresa and Ruth on one hand, and Saint Corbyn on the other.

    Result: fall in SNP support from 50% to 37%, loss of half a million voters and 23 MPs.

    The moment has been lost. In my view there is a 1% chance of an independence referendum happening before Brexit has been completed. I will be happy to be proved wrong.

    After Brexit has been completed, Scotland will be at the mercy of the Westminster government, with no official status in the EU other than a region of the UK.

    There is 0% chance of winning a referendum held after Brexit has been completed for the next 622 years.

    Yet the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here would be happy for Nicola to be declared First Minister for life, so blind is their faith.

  215. Rock says:

    Liz g,

    “In this instance,I think the Police were right to let them march.”

    I strongly disagree with you.

  216. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “Editorial in today’s Record putting the boot into Labour. As I said keep an eye on this.”

    Have you been appointed The Record’s chief lobbyist here after the fake “independence supporting” The National sacked you for boycotting it?

    Dave McEwan Hill (3rd March – “The uninvited”):

    “Ian Brotherhood at 11.13 am

    With you completely. I will not be buying the Saturday National that includes the Bella magazine”

  217. heedtracker says:

    Instead of striking when the iron was hot, she tried to be ultra cautious.

    What does that actual mean though Rock?

    Its just that if can at least tell us all what you wanted to happen back then, I can get in my hot tub time machine and go back to when the iron was hot for striking and then tell Sturgeon what you mean, over and over Rock.

    Good to see that zoomer indy2 bat alongside you too Rock.

  218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Rock @ 20:19,

    “Clueless armchair pundits”? Been looking in the mirror again after skipping your meds, eh…?

    Why don’t you just number your complaints, Monolithic One, then you could just regurgitate your Moan Of The Day with one easy tap of a key…?

  219. Hamish100 says:

    I take it the barlaclava guys support the burkha because it is easier to spell?

  220. Derek says:

    The green brigade were corralled like cattle a few years ago for a peaceful march up to Celtic Park because Police Scotland claimed it was illegal due to not having a permit.
    So you have to ask, did someone at the council grant this march a permit, and if so how considering the sectarian and violent connotations on the flyer?
    If they didn’t get a flyer, why didn’t the police put a stop to it?
    Why aren’t the police concerned by the paramilitary style attire and faces covered?
    I’ve emailed the snp, sturgeon, police Scotland & gcc to ask this. I don’t expect either will answer.

  221. Rock says:


    “to have gone in heavy handed would have handed the thugs license to be even more thuggish.”

    They don’t mind going in “heavy handed” against any “plebs” that might threaten the British Establishment.

    No arm of the British Establishment should ever be given the benefit of doubt by independence supporters, in my humble opinion.

  222. heedtracker says:

    Why don’t you just number your complaints, Monolithic One, then you could just regurgitate your Moan Of The Day with one easy tap of a key…?

    Funny. But I really want to know what a zoomer like Rock would have done, when the iron was hot.

    Bet you a coke he says nothing though, too logical.

  223. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It’s very satisfying to know you are making a good point and Rock responds to prove that.

  224. Derek says:

    Wulls, if they don’t represent the club, why does the club never come out and condemn their actions?
    Rangers are guilty by their constant silence.

  225. Rock says:


    “Funny. But I really want to know what a zoomer like Rock would have done, when the iron was hot.”

    Like the BBC’s totally discredited Nick Robinson, you have the habit of asking the same question again and again and then pretend it has not been answered.

    heedtracker (24th February – “The makings of a deal”):

    “OK Rock, what would you have done then?

    Rock (24th February – “The makings of a deal”):

    “The moment the Brexit result was declared, I would have made it perfectly clear to the people of Scotland that the only choice was to remain part of the UK or part of the EU.

    We were in a total position of strength, a one in a thousand years golden opportunity.

    The SNP having 56 out of 59 MPs, 50% of the vote, a remain vote in Scotland, the EU’s eyes favourably) on Scotland, the unionist parties without leaders and completely lost.

    Instead of starting to flog a dead horse – a separate deal for Scotland which was never going to happen.

    That went well didn’t it?

    We now have 13 Tory MPs instead of 1 as you say.”

    Don’t pretend that you hadn’t seen my answer to you, because I can quote your response to it.

  226. heedtracker says:

    Instead of striking when the iron was hot, she tried to be ultra cautious.

    What’s that Rock? I can’t hear you over the sound of your endless cut n paste Sturgeon bad bollox dude.

    So you need to speak up!

    What would you have done then, what with “striking when the iron was hot, she tried to be ultra cautious.”

    is an easy question Rock?

    Shows some balls mannie.

  227. ahundredthidiot says:

    any parent who takes their child into Ibrox or Celtic park should be interviewed by Social Workers.

    It’s child abuse.

  228. Rock says:

    Did Councillor Paula Rose “re-join” the Greens after the last Scottish election?

    (If she had ever truly left them in the first place)

  229. Dr Jim says:

    Many Greens withdrawing their support over the OBFA and Patrick Harvies attempts to slither out from under what he did
    The First Minister should have kept her mouth firmly shut on Russia and I don’t usually disagree with her on much but I believe her to be way wrong on this one

    Russia has done nothing until it’s proved they have and even then I would question the people who proved it

    Is that just a sign of how much I don’t trust the Brits
    or how untrustworthy the Brits are

    I do know one thing, a tip for youngsters, don’t join the British armed forces because you could end up fighting a war you didn’t ask for, don’t know anything about, for people who will make a lot of money out of it and don’t give a shit about you in the first place

    But they’ll remember you once a year for five minutes

  230. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi heedtracker at 4:21 pm.

    You stated,

    “Out of the whole of Scotland, only Glasgow with Dundee, voted YES.”

    No, I’m afraid you’re wrong there. In fact, me and Pete did badges for the 4 council areas that voted YES.

    Dundee: 57%
    West Dunbartonshire: 54%
    Glasgow: 53.5%
    North Lanarkshire: 51.1%

    Don’t become a “Ken500″ and state your beliefs as facts!

  231. Ian Foulds says:

    Tinto Chiel at 8.08pm

    Does that mean we can ask for withdrawal of BBC’s licence in Scotland?

    I never knowingly watch it but, would prefer to watch RT.


  232. Rock says:

    Dan Huil,

    “Spot on, Tinto. Shutting down RT is the only thing britnats can do.”

    That is probably their aim.

    They tried to eliminate the English spy who was now useless to them to create this scenario to close down RT (and Alex Salmond).

  233. heedtracker says:

    Don’t become a “Ken500? and state your beliefs as facts!

    Hey don’t be dissing Ken500, if there’s anyone btl that can cut through unionist hardcore bullshit, its our Ken.

    Anyway I meant cities, but thanks for the correction:D

  234. Rock says:

    Dr Jim says:
    12 March, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    “The First Minister should have kept her mouth firmly shut on Russia and I don’t usually disagree with her on much but I believe her to be way wrong on this one”

    Rock says:
    12 March, 2018 at 8:19 pm

    “Yet the clueless pompous armchair pundits posting here would be happy for Nicola to be declared First Minister for life, so blind is their faith.”

  235. Rock says:

    Rock says:
    12 March, 2018 at 8:53 pm

    heedtracker says:
    12 March, 2018 at 8:54 pm

    Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, you are living proof that not all people in Scotland are stupid.

  236. Glamaig says:

    O/T Bertie Armstrong on Radio Shortbread this evening saying Norway and Iceland catch 80-90% of the fish in their waters but UK only 40%, the other 60% being ‘given away’.

    Norway and Iceland, two small independent countries, Bertie, both in the Single Market, no Westminster looking after their fishing Bertie, join the dots.

    No chance of that of course, although hopefully some of the listeners did.

  237. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Nae bathir, heedtracker!


    BTW: Ken500 tends to fire us sentences (no commas) at 140mph and doesn’t always check the facts before submitting. He has been pulled up about the lack of factuality on numerous occasions.

  238. Liz g says:

    Dave McEwen Hill @ 8.38
    I find I’m struggling tae care.

  239. Rock says:

    Bob Mack,

    “The Greens will not be getting any votes from me again if they pursue this madness.

    Give these people one inch,they will take a mile.”

    Not that the likes of you had not been warned:

    Rock (24th June 2015 – “One question answered”):

    “But hypocrite Green posters like Paula Rose are hell bent on dividing the pro-independence vote so that Patrick Harvey can be King maker in a hung Scottish parliament.

    If we want to be sure of a majority SNP government, SNP supporters must vote for the SNP in both the constituency and list votes.

    Don’t be duped into giving away your list vote to other parties.

    The Greens and Socialists have both stated that independence is not their top priority.”

  240. Valerie says:

    Feels like utter fucking madness right now.

    Outrage because the Orange one won’t condemn Russia over Salisbury,,after Treeza holding his hand too.

    The Russians have said May’s statement was a “circus show”.
    Why does that resonate with me?

    SNP out on Twitter urging hard line on Russia for it’s behaviour.

    At least the last time, we got a sexed up dossier. The bar for getting out the war drums is very low these days.

    So stop moaning about Brexit or your pension levels. Your focus should be on your fall out shelter, or a very high level of sun cream protection.

  241. heedtracker says:

    Guardian reader with a Slovene (ex-)girlfriend, you are living proof that not all people in Scotland are stupid.

    Indeed, I have a huge Scottish brain Rock, massive in fact and flattery is lovely but what would you have done in Sturgeon’s place, First Minster Rock?

    “The SNP having 56 out of 59 MPs, 50% of the vote, a remain vote in Scotland, the EU’s eyes favourably) on Scotland, the unionist parties without leaders and completely lost.”

    So First Minister Rock did exactly the right thing, Scotland became a nation state again, all because FM Rock did what?

    Your stuff’s just like this yoon chancer Rock. Holy fcuk, arise Sir James, anytime soon.

    James Kelly MSP
    Verified account

    Follow Follow @JamesKellyLab

    In today’s Evening Times – the SNP has taken its eye off anti-sectarianism projects.

  242. Dr Jim says:


    Don’t quote bits of what I said to fortify your crap or justify your own bitterness

  243. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Rock – you’re stuck in a previous existence. “Paula Rose” hasn’t posted on WOS for months.

    You’ll really have to get your database updated.

  244. Robert Peffers says:

    @Movy says: 12 March, 2018 at 4:06 pm:

    ““Tory MP Bernard Jenkin addressing the devolution conference organised last week by the Brexit think tank, UK in a Changing Europe” said “that Scotland and Wales had been “allowed to vote in our EU referendum””. I find this one of the most offensive remarks I have ever seen reported anywhere.”

    Then perhaps you may find this one is even more offensive:-

    Dame Louise Casey, wrote a report for the government on integration in 2016, claiming that a common language, ” would help to heal rifts across Britain”.

    She also called for further work on gaining equality for women, and the “white working class population”.

    This, “Integrated Communities Strategy” is due to be published later this week.

    “‘Speak one language’

    Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Westminster Hour, Dame Louise said that integration should be “one of the most significant priorities” for the government and that any more delays to the strategy would be “incredibly frustrating”.

    She called for “big, bold policies” to tackling issues around integration, including a “very significant boost” in promoting, The English language.

    Dame Louise said: “I would be quite old school about this and I would set a target that says by ‘x’ date we want everybody in the country to be able to speak a common language.”

    She added: “I don’t care how we’ve got here, I don’t care who can’t speak English [and] I don’t care what’s going on.

    “But what I do know is everybody of working age and of school age should be able to speak one language and I think the public in particular would feel some relief.”

    “Conservative MP and former immigration minister Mark Harper said the government had made changes to immigration rules to require a “better level of the English language” when people came into the UK”

    They seem to ignore the fact that there are several native languages in the British Isles including Irish and Scottish Gaelic, real Lowland Scots, Welsh and Ulster Scots. Not only that but historically Westminster legally banned the wearing of Highland Dress, the playing of Bagpipes and speaking the Scots Languages. Yet failed to make us all good, “Little Englanders”, this mad woman seems intent of trying to eradicate us once more.

  245. Ottomanboi says:

    I suspect life in ‘independent’ UK will be hell. Capitalism unleashed, runaway inflation, wage ‘restraint’, tumbling English property prices, communal, perhaps, racial tension, rising unemployment, internal political dysfunction and increasing international irrelevance, all that and a big chip on the national shoulders re the wickedly intransigeant ‘foreign’ EU and a wee problem with Russia.
    We know what needs to be done.

  246. Breeks says:

    Save the outrage please.

    IF this poison attack was carried out by the Russians, perhaps next time the Russians want a target taken out on foreign soil, maybe they should just copy the RAF, and launch a covert drone strike to assassinate people without a trial, and thus truncate the UK’s bellicose howls indignation and faux outrage.

    As long as the strike can be described as “necessary and proportionate”, (and of course the Russians do the decent thing and apologise to surviving relatives for collateral damage and casualties), then Theresa May could hardly condemn the Russians on the merits of their strategic principle.

  247. schrodingers cat says:


  248. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lou Nisbet says:12 March, 2018 at 1:21 pm:

    “signed – Disgusted at the lot of them.”

    You are 100% correct Lou. do not be deterred by those on Wings numpties attempting to contradict you.

    Here, if they care to read it, is the derivation of the term, “Holyrood or Holy Rood. Yes it is Wiki but happens to be correct:-

    Here is the start of that Wiki explanation:-

    The Holyrood or Holy Rood is a Christian relic considered to be part of the True Cross on which Jesus died. The word derives from the Old English rood, meaning a pole and the cross, via Middle English or the Scots haly ruid (“holy cross”). Several relics venerated as part of the True Cross are known by this name, in England, Ireland and Scotland.

    Black Rood of Scotland[edit]

    Saint Margaret (c.1045–1093), a Saxon Princess of England, was born in Hungary. Following the conquest of England by the Normans in 1066, she fled to Scotland, where she married Malcolm III Canmore, King of Scotland. She is said to have brought the “Holy Rood”, a fragment of Christ’s cross, from Hungary or England to Scotland with her. It was known as the Black Rood of Scotland.

    The Catholic Encyclopaedia reports that Saint Margaret brought the cross from Waltham Abbey, after which it was kept in Holyrood Abbey, which her son erected in Edinburgh.




  249. Don`t think the President of the Russian Federation could give a tuppeny f@ck what little england thinks,

    wouldn`t trust Theresa and her warmongering,xenophobic Tories to tell the truth on any subject,

    surprised Labour`s bloodthirsty Hilary Benn didn`t get up and call for war: now,tomorrow and forever,

    the truth of this whole incident will never be known/told,

    I always think if you do not know the facts work out who and what is going to gain (follow the money) from the incident.

    Hope everyone concerned in incident make full recovery.

  250. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    When I see all the tweets today featuring Labour MSP James Kelly, I am reminded of this:-

  251. schrodingers cat says:

    William Purves says:
    12 March, 2018 at 6:55 pm
    Play Rangers Celtic matches in empty stadiums in empty stadiums at 7 a.m. on Sunday mornings.
    better still. change the ferry times from ni to scotland so fans arrive late and cant get back to ni in time for work on monday morning

  252. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    No “Hurrah for the Blackshirts” front page on this mornings ‘Scottish’ Daily Mail??

  253. Rock says:

    Brian Doonthetoon,

    “Rock – you’re stuck in a previous existence. “Paula Rose” hasn’t posted on WOS for months.”

    And why hasn’t she?


    “Green activists posting here pretended to be SNP to dupe SNP supporters into giving their second vote to the Greens.

    Their task having been achieved, they have now disappeared from here but will come back before the next election.”

  254. Scottish Steve says:

    Yes voters are routinely told we’re scumbags yet the only scumbags I see are in the photos above. This is the company No voters share is it? Such fine, upstanding members of society.

    I will no longer be voting for the Greens after this BS. It’ll be SNP all the way for me from now on at all levels. God knows what I’m going to do at the council elections though since we use runoff voting.

    Never was a fan of football and this sort of nonsense only reinforces my hatred for the sport and many of its fans. They are the reason why I don’t use the subway on match days and why, if I’m unfortunate enough to be on the train with them, I feel deeply unsafe.

    I cant comprehend the mindset. I have a mate who supports Rangers and is Protestant but voted Yes. I guess the people in the photos are not the brightest bulbs in the box.

    Scotland’s shame indeed.

  255. Rock says:

    Dr Jim,


    Don’t quote bits of what I said to fortify your crap or justify your own bitterness”

    I have quoted exactly what you posted. If you don’t want to be quoted you shouldn’t post.

    Dr Jim says:
    12 March, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    “The First Minister should have kept her mouth firmly shut on Russia and I don’t usually disagree with her on much but I believe her to be way wrong on this one”

  256. Fraser Darling says:

    “Will the real Rangers fans please stand up and take your football club back from these idiots and their sectarian nonsense!?”

    It is time that the silent majority chased these clowns (Union Bears or otherwise) out of their club.

    I know loads of good Rangers fans who wouldn’t go within a country mile of Ibrox because of this stuff.

    Will balaclava donning clowns giving Nazi salutes be the final straw for decent supporters?

    Btw I am not a Rangers fan myself, but I’m sure that all clubs have their share of idiots and the same suggestion would apply.

    At Scotland international games if someone starting offensive stuff they’d get telt!

    I remember when I was a young lad my dad stood up to a bunch of casuals (aberdeen fans in the motherwell family section). I was mortified and thought he was going to get his head kicked in. But after a few nervy seconds (no more than that) other dads stood up and backed him up and the guys got chased out. I went from being mortified to proud.

    As a father now I’d be ashamed of myself if I sat in silence and gave tacit support to clowns such as these. All should reflect upon what they accept.

  257. Rock says:

    Scot Finlayson,

    “surprised Labour`s bloodthirsty Hilary Benn didn`t get up and call for war: now,tomorrow and forever,”

    The one good thing about the Corbyn leadership is that bastard has been left out in the cold.

  258. Tam the Bam. says:


    European Withdrawal Bill:Committee Stage (House of Lords) is currently on the BBC PARLIAMENT CHANNEL.

    Forsyth has taken a bit of a verbal ‘kicking’ from several members so far…gives me a warm glow inside (or is that the Horlicks).

  259. Famous15 says:

    See this tax on Scottish sojers or at least the few senior officers who will pay a wee bit more in Scotland.I wonder about the even more English sojers who will be paying MORE than Scottish sojers will Ruth Davidson be getting them a bung to compensate? Naw. Thought not as she is only putting the boot in to our wonderful Scottish Government.

  260. schrodingers cat says:

    the russians are coming, the russians are coming etc
    meh, talk is cheap, it distracts the plebs from brexit and indyref2, putin cares little for a clapped out britain wi’ nae mates.

    a last good rattle on the old empire sabre until the reality sets in, gun boat diplomacy requires a gun boat.

    i have heard a rumour that fifa are lining up wales as englands replacement, 🙂

  261. heedtracker says:

    Masked union bears fart about in Glasgow, meanwhile in Washington. Its all going toryboy mental really.

    No word from Rock about what info to take back to FM Sturgeon, in the year of our toryboy 2015?

  262. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Och rock, you’re haverin’ pish. Have you ever had a discussion with Paula Rose? I have.

    She is totally pro-indy. Green, yes, but pro-indy. How many Wingers have you met face-to-face? C’mon, tell the truth. It’s none, iye? You’re a desktop warrior with her own preconceptions, nae doot…

  263. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Does that mean we can ask for withdrawal of BBC’s licence in Scotland?”: Ian Foulds @8.57.

    Probably easier just for folk to stop paying and stop watching their propaganda.

    Great for the old BP.

  264. galamcennalath says:

    schrodingers cat says:

    gun boat diplomacy requires a gun boat

    …. and now they are just incapable of any type of diplomacy!

    If the can’t negotiate with the EU, how do they plan to negotiate future trade deals with other countries?

    It also makes me wonder how they could ever sit down and have serious talks with Scotland after a Yes win!

  265. Kangaroo says:

    Dave McEwen Hill @ 8:33pm

    Just a taster but..we are talking about GERS

    Given that

    Increase in Private Wealth(IPW) = Net Government Spending(GERS) + Balance of Trade(BOT)then inserting in the “latest” figures gives
    IIW = 13.5b + 4.6b = 18.1billion

    So anecdotally given that this situation has demonstrably been the case for decades then everyone in Scotland should be driving around in flash cars and owing expensive real estate. The streets should be paved with gold and there should be sparkly new buildings everywhere.
    This is patently absurd so what is wrong?

    Answer: GERS are a load of sh%#@

  266. Famous15 says:

    Stu gets his message read after the interview with Mark Macdonald on Scotland Tonight.Trial by innuendo!

    Macdonald is not a Savile nor even a Trump. At worst he was-a silly boy..

  267. heedtracker says:

    Its a mad mad mad toryboy world

    Jeremy Corbyn
    Jeremy Corbyn is awarded by the Seán MacBride Peace Prize for his sustained and powerful political work for disarmament and peace. As an active member, vice-chair and now vice-president of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament in the UK he has for many years worked to further the political message of nuclear disarmament. As the past chair of the Stop the War Campaign in the UK he has worked for peace and alternatives to war.”

    December 8th 2017

    Oooold Jeremy Corbyn is probably not what he says he is,

    Corbyn: Labour is committed to renewing Trident
    20 May 2017

    Labour is “committed” to renewing Trident nuclear weapons, Jeremy Corbyn has stressed, after disagreement between two of his frontbenchers.”


    Why did they give JC this award? who knows.

    We can see what the SLab charlatans are like just with their OBFA triumph. Hopefully SLabour will be benevolent rulers when they do finally take their Scotland region back under PM Corbyn’s control.

  268. Thepnr says:

    The Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Act 2012 or more simply known as OBFA in my opinion was a mistake.

    Not because it wasn’t needed to deal with particular problems within football and football supporters. My view is it should have been a Scotland wide act dealing with sectarian and other criminal behaviour of the same type whether it was associated with foorball or not.

    That should have been the amendment to the act, to broaden it and cover all circumstances not just those relating to football. That is where OBFA falls down IMHO.

    The point remains though, there is a need for such an act in order to prevent those scenes we witnessed yesterday.

  269. galamcennalath says:

    “Banker Mrs Chernukhin …. paid £20,000 to dine with Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson in Edinburgh. The Tories deny that Mrs Chernukhin, now a British citizen, is a Putin crony. “

    That should keep Col. Davidson in hiding.

  270. heedtracker says:

    From that beeb gimpery on JC’s Trident 2 plans,

    Sean Macbride peace prize winner, “Mr Corbyn, campaigning in Birmingham ahead of the 8 June election, said the party’s manifesto was “very clear”.

    Speaking to reporters after a rally, Mr Corbyn said: “The manifesto makes it very clear that the Labour Party has come to a decision and is committed to Trident.”


    Every year the IPB awards a special prize to a person or organisation that has done outstanding work for peace, disarmament and/or human rights. These were the principal concerns of Sean MacBride, the distinguished Irish statesman who was Chairman of IPB from 1968-74 and President from 1974-1985.

    MacBride began his career as a fighter against British colonial rule, studied law and rose to high office in the independent Irish Republic. He was a winner of the Lenin Peace Prize, and also the Nobel Peace Prize (1974) – awarded for his wide-ranging work, which included roles such as co-founder of Amnesty International, Secretary-General of the International Commission of Jurists, and UN Commissioner for Namibia. While at IPB he launched the Bradford Proposals on World Disarmament, which laid the ground for the first UN Special Session on Disarmament, held in 1978.

    He also launched the MacBride Appeal against Nuclear Weapons, which gathered the names of over 11,000 international lawyers from all parts of the world, many of them at the very highest level.

    This effort paved the way for the World Court Project on nuclear weapons, in which IPB played a major role. This resulted in the historic 1996 Advisory Opinion of the International Court of Justice on the Use and Threat of Nuclear Weapons. MacBride died in 1988, but the Prize was not established until 1992, IPB’s centenary year.”

    If a Trident bomb goes off tonight on the Clyde, massed ranks of beeb gimps better being asking JC to give his peace award for being anti nuke WMD back. Not that there will be many Scots around to see it.

  271. Robert Peffers says:

    @shug says:12 March, 2018 at 4:31 pm:

    “my understanding was that in the 1800s many schools were closely tied to local churches and the 1918 act simply ensured they became a local authority responsibility.”

    I’m sorry to say your understanding is only almost correct, shug.

    The old system was the, “Pairish”, (Parish), system and it included the local authority. In fact it was the local authority.

    The trouble was that, “The Pairish”, was the Protestant religion parishes and they were actively anti-Catholic. Thus what passed for, “Charity”, was actively biased against Catholics.
    However, as Education is/was, as stated in the Treaty of Union, independent of Westminster’s English laws then the Protestant, “Pairish”, system could, and did, discriminate.

    Charity was exceedingly cold for Catholics. So Westminster abolished the Parish System and sought to change how local authority schools were run and funded. To be fair if the local protestant parish was funding the schools then who could really blame them for not wanting their schools used by children whose parents did not contribute, (I’m not aware of how local rates & taxes worked back then). Anyway, the Parish System was done away with and who could blame the Catholics for being wary of the still rife sectarianism of the majority?

    In the end there was compromise. The State agreed to retain the RC schools system but stipulated the RCs must not discriminate and the RCs agreed not to charge the state for the use of their schools, equipment, playing fields and teacher training.

    The protestant schools became non-dom and thus agreed not to bar RCs. It was thus a two way thing and not as so often claimed just the RCs insisting upon sectarian schools as they did agree not to bar other religions.

  272. @Rock

    best of all he sidelined red trousered Morningside`s own pet Uncle Tam ; Ian Murray.

  273. Dr Jim says:

    Leptons are everywhere but pass unnoticed due to their less than insignificance yet they remain

  274. Robert Louis says:

    Derek at 0939pm,

    Indeed, so far as ‘the rangers’ goes, and their blackshirt fascists parading at the weekend to promote violence and death to caholics, silence equals consent.

    Tired of people apologising for these mindless hatred filled thugs, telling us ‘most rangers fans are decent’. So, tell me then why do Ibrox not kick these thugs out – as somebody has pointed out, they effectively have their own ‘section in the stadium.

    If I belonged to a club that allowed this kind of behaviour by members or fans, then I would cease to belong to it.

    Never thought I’d see what are effectively fascists walking the streets of Glasgow in 2018. If such a ‘parade’ is allowed to happen again, the chief constable who allowed it should be sacked, with immediate effect. No ifs, no buts. Simply not acceptable.

  275. Robert Peffers says:

    @Valerie says:12 March, 2018 at 6:35 pm:

    “McDonald is returning to Holyrood tomorrow, and they have moved his office into the basement!!WTAF?
    Just what SNP need just now.”

    Oh! Go and do some research before mouthing off, Valerie.

    At Holyrood the parties all have their offices in different Party Corridors. So if someone, anyone, leaves, changes or is thrown out of a particular party the either move to their chosen party’s corridor or get moved to the, (upper), basement.

    No one is being nasty in that. The parties are normally separated and you cannot have your opposition in the position to eavesdrop what is going on in another parties business.

    I don’t actually know who made the decision to move the guy but I’d bet it was paid Holyrood staff, (you know those paid Holyrood staff currently complaining of bullying and unwanted sexual harassment), rather than the SNP itself.

  276. Effijy says:

    Teresa May is taking new sanctions out on Russia
    Due to unsubstantiated claims that they have introduced
    A biological agent into the UK.

    With the Tories spending so much time and money on
    Immigration border control, has Russian just popped 100ml
    Bottle of it in a plastic bag at the Airport?

    A proven source at No 10 tells me that the UK will no longer allow
    DVDs of Dr Zhivago into the country.
    Woolly hats with ear muffs and red star badges will have a 25% tariff applied.

    Extra border staff will be used to check Babooshka Dolls to see what is inside,
    To see what is inside the doll inside to see what’s in the doll inside, etc

    Russian Vodka will know be known as East London Gin.

    If things get really nasty, the Tories will stop the supply of Russian fuels coming
    Into the UK. If it means freezing a few million U.K.citizens it will be worth
    It show England is serious!

  277. heedtracker says:

    When CND big cheese Prime Minister Corbyn hits that big red UKOK button, to finally justify SLabour’s love affair with the UK nukes they’ve dumped in their Scotland region, dont worry, it wont be the complete end of humanity.

  278. Ken500 says:

    It is not just some Rangers although they are bad enough. It is some Celtic fans as well. Less frequently there are some displaying disgusting posters and behaviour in a threatening way goading each other.

    It can be stamped out and stop. There has been trouble at others clubs. Thirty years ago. ‘Casuals’. There were groups not so extreme who looking for trouble. The authorities came down on them severely, The Poice pursued them. Found the culprits. There were brought to justice fined etc. Some got records. Although some would have kept their jobs. They were named and shamed in the Press etc. The Club banned them. Concentrated on making family provision. Still mainly male dominated, That was the end of it. It eventually was dealt with and it has never been repeated on that scale. Mild skirmishes sometime but not outright thuggery.

    It is easier now with Facebook and the internet to organise trouble but it is also easier to detect because they can be found out through the internet. Facebook circles. The actions recorded.

  279. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 12 March, 2018 at 6:46 pm:

    “They know it was Novichok that poisoned the three people.
    How did they know. “

    They know by process’s such as, “Spectrum Analysis”, (among other scientific methods), that for, “Heaven’s sake, (and I use that term advisedly), they know the constituency of stars and, “Heavenly Bodies”, millions of light years away.

  280. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 12 March, 2018 at 7:09 pm:

    “Does anyone with half a brain believe that the Russian government would use such a silly method to rid their world of a (“Tractor” – Ed) – years after his release form a Moscow jail.”

    Err! Whoa! There!

    Not Russia as such, Dorothy but Bulgaria assisted by the KGB, have indeed used such bizarre methods in the fairly recent past.

    A Ricin pellet from a jab from an Umbrella:-

  281. Liz g says:

    Robert Louis @ 11.33
    While I agree that the fan’s themselves should speak out.
    If they were going to do so they would have by now.
    I must admit,I am looking forward to the — Kulture—defence, of these marches in the ECJ,after Indy.
    Everything else between now and then is just evidence, and I don’t think they have very deep pocket’s either.

  282. Chris Kilby says:

    What is wrong with these fucking people?

  283. Clootie says:

    @Robert Peffers

    …I know and understand the science but I also know unionists. You will forgive me for not assuming that because something is possible it is evidence.

    The British State has a long record of producing well timed convenient “evidence” of some ghastly act by others.

    How many times have the state whipped up the mood against an enemy to mis-direct or manipulate the population.

    This does not mean that I suspect scientists are part of a conspiracy event…I’m sure it is as solid as the Lockerbie research 😛

  284. Robert Peffers says:

    @Derek says: 12 March, 2018 at 8:36 pm:

    “Why aren’t the police concerned by the paramilitary style attire and faces covered?”

    Have you considered, Derek, that perhaps Police Scotland thought, (and going by the comments I’ve read here and elsewhere probably correctly), “Let’s just let these knuckle draggers hold their march and let the public see and decide just how bad an idea it is to repeal the act”?

  285. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 12.42
    Exactly Robert and we need to start sayin.. Here’s yer Union people! Do you support this?

  286. Ken500 says:

    There will need to be extra staff recruited to man the borders, Tory services cuts. May cut the budget and sacked all the border staff. When she was Home Secretary. She had appointed a new heid bummer. It cause traffic chaos at the airports. Long waits and queues. People could not get through security/customs at the airports.

    There were major delays at Heathrow and the ferry docks. Utter chaos. People wee waiting hours in queues and missing their flights and holiday journey, business trips. It ended up they were just having to let people through without proper checks because of the mounting chaos.

    May blamed the new heid banger for the chaos and the queues. When it was her policies and cost cutting that was.the cause. She has a habit of blaming others seemingly. Passing the buck. He resigned and called her out. Said it was her fault but it was him.lost his job. Looks like she wants to repeat it with Brexit. Costing a fortune.

    The Tories are saying they have recruited 700 new staff.for the admin expected but they have only recruit a small amount. They have to be trained. They will not be trained in time? The Brexit voters will be stuck in queues. How will they like that? Pandemonium.

  287. ScottieDog says:

    I remember the falklands conflict giving Maggie a boost in the polls.
    If there’s no conflict you have to create one.

    No one seems to mention that England is verydependent on Russian gas of course. Any decent media would be firing out the satirical cartoons about putin’s ‘invisible’ hand.

    Scotland of course could easily heat and power itself.

  288. Phronesis says:

    The OBFA was progress against sectarianism that is symbolic of a backward looking introspective Scotland . It sends a clear and public message against intolerable behaviours often displayed at football matches and the march on the streets of Glasgow and all that it represents should be roundly condemned . It is not in anyone’s interests to allow such expressions of hate and fear mongering to be legitimised – politicians who are actively undermining anti sectarian legislation should think very carefully about the message that they are sending out.

  289. Ann says:

    Robert Peffers @ 12.10

    Agree with everything you say.

    My nieces attended the Primary School in my village which is a Catholic school, my own daughter the nursery.

    However my sister and I made different choices for our daughters education and not because of religion.

    Her daughters whilst in the village continued their education at the primary and then the connecting high school.

    Her son on the other hand, like my daughter went through school at non-doms.

    To me I see no difference in their attitudes and outlooks in life.

    I always state that no child is born bigitted, racist etc., but are influenced by their elders and peers.

    Question is how do we solve a problem that in reality has no place in a modern multiacial country.

    Our children are taught to respect other religions and peoples, yet it is adults that can be the problem.

    How do you educate them.

    Something that happened in 17th Century Ireland has no place in a modern Scotland.

    How do you wean someone off that? With difficukty.

  290. Undeadshuann says:

    Perhaps the police did nothing as they were gathering intelligence?

    Did they have camera surveliance units present?

    I would hope they have photos pinned to boards with lines linking them by now.

    We as citizens cann raise concerns with police and councilors to apply pressure that something is done.

  291. exile says:

    Professor Muscatelli on R4 just now: “Today” partly from Glasgow University Chapel. Professor got across info on widening access from poorest groups.

  292. Nana says:


    Today we’ll hear from @Feorlean on the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill –

    watch live on @Scotparl TV:

    Watch “Alex Salmond’s Video Diary: Trump, Tories and a hero bus driver” –

  293. Nana says:

    REVEALED: Over 1000 NHS beds now set aside for treating private patients 12,000 beds cut since 2010 –

    Tailbacks of up to 30 miles and rotting food at Calais do not pass Theresa May’s Brexit tests. The government needs to get its fingers out of its ears

  294. Dorothy Devine says:

    Good morning Mr Peffers .

    1978 I remember it well all very cloak and daggery all round. I remember a spy stone of ours more recently too.

    Frankly I think the world has moved on and to blame ‘Russia ‘ for all our ills is infantile and too damned convenient for Westminster at this time .

    For them to mouth off without proof and attempt to provoke a response is just another under the carpet sweeping aided and abetted by a media in which I have NO trust.

    I do hope that Mr Lavrov is the chap who answers MrS May’s accusation – I reckon he can sook anyone in and spit them oot in bubbles . A man who does not mince his words.

  295. Macart says:


    Two mug effort again Nana. 🙂

    Many thanks.

  296. Nana says:

    Good morning Macart 🙂

  297. @Robert Peffers

    `They know by processes such as, “Spectrum Analysis”, (among other scientific methods)`

    would the UK State scientists need to have had some (previous to incident) of the Novichok nerve agent to make a comparison to confirm what it was.

  298. starlaw says:

    Theresa May should assemble a task force, and set of for the Crimea. The empty aircraft carrier could be used to transport all the ‘tally ho’ brigade complete with horses. That will sort it out.

  299. Ken500 says:

    Harvie and the Greens are playing a very dangerous game. That is/will damage democracy and the economy in Scotland. The useless incompetent greens are helping the useless incompetent Tory /unionists obtain ground and get back into power in Scotland. Using second votes from SNP voters and or Independence supporters to do it Every time they attack the SNP with their incompetent lies and random half truths. playing politics, games to get some half baked headlines. Playing to the Gallery. They are aiding and abetting more Tories and useless unionists to gain ground to get into power at Holyrood and Westminster.That is how it is perceived.

    It is a very dangerous game the Greens are playing every attempt they make to discredit the SNP for Party political purposes. The result is that the useless incompetent, lying unionist/Tories gain ground, in their efforts to destroy not only the Scottish economy, the UK and the world economy as well. On a political system that is already skewed.

    Harvie is speaking with fork tongue and is going to damage and destroy the Devolution settlement, democracy and the economy of Scotland and the rest of the world. Everything Harvie says he believes in is actually being destroyed by his actions. A total hypocrite of false representation. The Tories unionists who he claims to detest are being strengthened by his actions.

    The actions that he takes when he votes down the OBFA is to strengthen the cause of the Tory/unionist cause. Every time he seeks to damage the SNP using misguided and ill thought out argument which do not stand up in any case. Ie lies. He has not thought things through. Every time he irrational criticises the SNP for actions and policies they are limited in anyway (less powers etc, outside controlled budget and policies) He is aiding Tories and unionists to gain power. Every irrational criticism to score some political points scoring weaken the SNP and helps the Tories and the Unionists.

    When Patrick Harvie votes this down in two days. He is not only voting down the OBFA. A bad Law that works, He is voting down by his action and betrayal (of SNP or Independence supporters – using their second votes). He is voting down the Scottish economy, the UK economy and the world economy. He is aiding the Tory/unionists useless incompetents and those he claims to detest to gain ground.

    These actions that he takes is far wider than voting against a pathetic football’s Act. It has wider percussion in aiding the Tories and unionist. The unionist Alliance Party which does not exist. to damage the Scottish economy, democracy in Scotland. Aiding the Tory – unionists to gain ground which happens with any critisim of the SNP (for irrational reasons – ill arguments non thought out- ie lies)

    Harvie and colleagues (wider movement) political ground standing. Will have the affect of damaging the Scottish economy Devolution, the UK/ world economy. In an act that is niave, ridiculous beyond belief in it’s wider implication. Using SNP supporters and or Independence supporters second votes to do it.

    The implication of voting down this Act are stupid, vain, so ill thought out of the widen repercussions to be insane. Every move Harvie and the Greens are making in their pathetic, grandstanding and any pathetic points scoring aids the Tory – unionists useless and incompetents.

    When the Greens vote down this Bill they area letting down every one of their voters. The vulnerable the sick and the elderly. Women and children who are being starving. They are letting down equality and the,vulnerable, Damaging the Scottish economy and society of good governance. They are helping and aiding the Tory and unionists to gain ground. An Act of sheer folly beyond comprehension. Betraying everything and one they claim to support. A total bunch of damaging hypocrites. Liars and cheats. Their cheap words not ringing true. All talk and no actions, Making people’s’ lives harder. A self harming Act of kamikazing proportional. Which will damage the SNP and the world economy. On a political system that is already unfair and unequal.

    That is why the greens and their policies are so unpopular, They are naive and just do not think things through on so many levels. Betraying their voters and people they claim to support. Be under no illusions this action will be dangerous not just for everybody but for the greens and their movement, . As usual cutting off their nose to spite their face. When they vote this down the implications are too terrible to contemplate. Especially in the present political climate. Of inequality and injustice. Starving and killing people. Harvie is the emperor without any clothes. His colleagues are a complete disgrace.

    They are hypocrites of the most gargantuan proportions.They are not only aiding the Tories to destroy democracy, They are destroying the world. An act of criminal proportions, The Green politicans are criminals along with the violent, abusing behaviour they are voting to support. The greens should be in jail. For violence against others abusive behaviour and supporting and aiding and abetting useless Tories and unionist criminals. A total betrayal of their voters and the wider (world) society, Betraying every principle they claim to hold. They are worse than these violent thugs and disorder they are intending to support.

    The Greens are a danger to society. No wonder they are so unpopular. Along with their ill thought out policies. They just do not think things through. Useless and incompetent at so many levels. They just make people’s life harder and abuse their position of power. Or any power and privilege they are given. A small incompetent pressure group. Of limited interest. Idealogically incompetent, Their action will result in Scotland losing powers it needs to run a full and just economy. Losing good SNP governance that Scotland, the UK the world has never needed more. At any time than now in the present political climate. As the Tories try to destroy the world.with Brexit and make life harder for the most vulnerable in the world. They are an international disgrace.

    The Greens in Holyrood should be supporting the SNP and standing up for Scotland as they were elected to do. Not aiding and abetting the dangerous ‘pycho bastard’ Tories. Get a grip for goodhess sake. This intended vote will be construed as an SNP defeat. Just what Scotland does not need in the present political climate, it will damage the economy and weaken the SNP negotiating power. Playing right into the Tories – unionists hands, An Act of complete betrayal of everything Harvie and the greens are supposed to stand for and a betrayal of the people who gave them their vote. Betrayal of equal rights, prosperity, the vulnerable etc.

    That is why the Greens are so incompetent and useless. They renege on green policies. A danger to democracy and equality etc. They do not think things through at so many levels. They talk the talk but do not walk the walk. When Harvie joins with the opposition to vote this Bill down. He is damaging the economy. Devolution, the devolution settlement, the UK world economy. Helping aiding and abetting the Tories. – Westminster to take away the Scottish power and damaging Devolution, Doing the opposition of all the aspirations and policies he claims to support.

    Harvie (greens) is not only a fool but a dangerous fool. A danger to the Scottish economy, equality prosperity and prosperity equality in the world. He is cutting off his noes to spite his face and damaging the wider society he claim to support. Acting like a complete hypocrite. Aiding the Tory/unionists to damage the world. The implication go much wider than voting down a poor OBFA in the present climate.

    He should be supporting the SNP and standing up for Scotland as he was elected to do. Not supporting the Tory – unionists to ruin the Scottish, UK and world economy. Making life poorer for millions of people. Every vote or ground the SNP loses makes that happen in the present political climate. Makes Scotland and the people poorer with less equal rights and unequal status. An act of complete and obvious abuse.

  300. louis.b.argyll says:

    Hang on a minute…

    Are we supposed to believe any of this Russian story?

    The UK ESTABLISHMENT buried the Brexit damage reports, denied any perceived risks.

    Now EVERY RISK KNOWN TO MANKIND has been blamed on Putin.

    Saudis have been using chemical weapons ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS helped by the UK- THIS YEAR.

    Not a fucking peep about that on BBC, not since they were found out for faking/ twisting news footage..of chemical suit their agenda.

    Who gains from continued conflict?


    I smell a big fat cat a-rat-a-tat-tat.

  301. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    O/T Well, I suppose there’s one very small thing to be said for the nerve agent episode, which is it that it quickly outs all the purblind Putin fans, flakes and conspiracy theorists, and gives you a fair notion of how much to trust their balance of judgement.

    Sometimes, just sometimes, things really are as obvious as they seem. (Occam’s Razor.) The only actor who is capable of this and who needs it right now is the wee czar.

    I reckon Ian Blackford and Nicola both got their reactions spot on, both morally and in respect of the feeling of the vast majority of ordinary people in Scotland.

    Thankfully we have a leadership that is making sense and building popular confidence for indy.

  302. Ken500 says:

    Bit of s rant but no apology, The times are getting far to desperate. The Tories will lead the world to more war, destruction and poverty. It is the Westminster unionist way. Taking everything behind them for collateral damage,

    Thanks for the links Nanna,

    Thanks a Billion Rev Stu for trying to keep folk sane. Sometimes things do not seem to not be working. Or anyone is listening. In an increaingly desperate (world) situation.

  303. Breeks says:

    The OBFA is the right thing to do, but it’s the wrong people doing it.

    What Scotland needs is a SFA with enough backbone and integrity to expel any club for its leagues whenever they are a contributing factor to sectarianism or hatred. Even if a club is not responsible for inciting the problem. If any football club wants to thrive in Scotland, then their primary reflex must be distancing itself from all the controversy and taking a lead to stamp it out.

    I don’t care about football. And I really couldn’t give a flying feck about the subtle moral and ethical differences between Celtic fans and Rangers fans. A plague on all your houses. When are both sets of fans going to wise up and apologise to the rest of Scotland for showing up our Country as an ignorant backward country riven with sectarianism and bigotry? It’s not as if Scottish football itself is doing much to promote Scotland’s progressive development, and when religious and political affiliations are more important to the fans than sporting excellence and results, then for once, I’m with the BBC, and I’d starve Scottish football of investment and media exposure too.

    It is signature SNP methodology to tackle the difficult issues which blight Scotland. They led the way with smoking bans. They took on the Establishment with minimum pricing on alchohol. They have tried to address sectarian bigotry. That is what a decent moral government does. It takes the awkward decisions which risk the fury of the wayward minority but do it for the collective common good.

    With Sectarianism however, the SNP can only do so much, especially when there are so many churches, football clubs, and morally bankrupt political imbeciles who are content to look the other way as sectarianism and bigotry refreshes its hold on new generations of Scotland’s youth. -And that was the day to day reality BEFORE Unionism starting fanning the flames.

    A few years ago, there was serious discussion about Celtic and Rangers going to play their football in the English leagues. At the time, even from the perspective of non-football supporter, I thought that was a disgraceful insult to Scotland and the development of Scottish football by these greedy Prima Donnas, but with hindsight, maybe I was wrong. Maybe we should have seized the opportunity to be rid of these sectarian clubs for good, and instead restructured a footballing regime in Scotland dedicated to improving the reputation, home grown talent, and actual quality of football routinely played in Scotland, and thus kill off two regular humiliations at once- sectarian bigotry on the terraces and our dismal failure to qualify for tournaments.

    I grew up in the Borders playing rugby, and was rugby daft from birth. These days however I don’t even watch the six nations. My interest died the death of 100 cuts as money and professionalism muscled it’s way into the picture. I hated the way the extraordinarily potent Scottish Club rugby scene, which had kept Scotland competitive internationally, was casually sacrificed on the altar of professionalism in order to fund two professional city clubs. It wasn’t the ringers which suddenly started appearing a Scottish jersey which killed the game off for me, but Scotland coach Frank Hadden, sending out a Scotland B team to face the All Blacks in the 2007 World Cup. A gross insult to the All Blacks and burning disgrace for Scottish rugby even before the kick off. The All Blacks humped Scotland 40-0, and in the end I confess I might even have quietly cheered for New Zealand once or twice.

    Scottish Football needs to eradicate its affliction with sectarian bigotry, and in the SNP it has a government demonstrably willing to help it succeed in that objective. If Scotland’s genuine football fans still care about the actual football, then both they and the Scottish Government need to work towards a radical review of how the game is run by the SFA. The OBFA might not be perfect, but it’s a step in the right direction.

  304. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    Not football or Putin related, but a useful roundup IMO of the Brexit damage limitation legislation facing all the devolved bit of the UK plus dependencies. It’s not just England, but Scotland, Wales, NI, Gibraltar, Channel Isles, IoM …

  305. Ottomanboi says:
    The above article in today’s Guardian speaks much about the true nature of the 21st century British state. Unionists can be well proud. Osborne? Remember him?

  306. @Robert J. Sutherland

    `The only actor who is capable of this and who needs it right now is the wee czar.`

    why does the President of the Russian Federation need or want to harm some retired British spy and his daughter,

    what does Vladimir gain in all this ?

  307. jfngw says:

    Strange thing about this ‘Russian poisoning’ story is they apparently have found traces of it in various places, lots of pictures of people in protective suits. But the police officer who came to their aid collapsed fairly quickly, how has there not been a mass of collapses at all these other places they visited, if the agent was as potent as claimed.

    There is certainly something convenient for the government in this story, it’s taken up large areas of the news output and Brexit issues are pushed off the headlines.

  308. Ottomanboi says:

    Maybe get rid of Celtic and Rangers as separate clubs and create a Glasgow United. At the moment they are just big fish in a rather small pond viewed through a distorting lens of out of proportion self~importance
    The two-team city phenomenon in British sport has its roots in religious sectarianism eg Manchester City/United, Liverpool/Everton. Good for dividing and ruling the troublesome masses.

  309. Fred says:

    The system of the Kirk, the Parish School & provision for the Poor, collapsed in the 1880’s. The flood of folk escaping the Great Famine in the Highlands & Ireland showed up it’s deficiencies which were exacerbated by the Cholera outbreaks in the same decade & the parish kirk unable to cope with the need for mass-graves. So Poor-House provision, municipal cemeteries & schools & a greatly weakened Kirk which split in two at the Disruption with the emergence of the Free Kirk.

  310. jfngw says:

    I think we can start referring to the WM Withdrawal Bill, as the England First legislation. After all this is going to remove the competencies of Holyrood and effectively place them in the hands of 533 MP’s representing English constituencies against 59 representing Scotland (currently 46 in reality).

    English Votes for Scottish Laws, is the consequence.

  311. Dr Jim says:

    Some famous football presenter loses the plot and spits at someone so off with his head and sack him
    Some famous woman football presenter gets caught drunk driving but that’s OK coz she’s nice really
    A gang of para militarily dressed marching masked Rangers supporters calling for the maiming and death of Catholics and waving banners with graphic descriptions of how they want that particular group attacked get a police escort and that story doesn’t even make the news

    The Russians are Baad…probably…Brexit? Shhh Russians..Spitting man..MSP sent a text and a grown up’s not comfy..Brexit? I told you Shhh!… Russians

    RT is back to being evil again after every politician of every party’s been on it taking their money…Brexit? Shhh
    How many times have I told you

    The very principled British media reporting all the Shhh!

  312. Bob Mack says:

    Rather ironic we are now calling on NATO and the EU to back us up against Russia ,when we apparently wanted to be on our own and in control of our own destiny. Standing alone shouting help,help,like Penelope Pitstop in Wacky Races Only in the UK.

  313. stu mac says:

    @Arbroath1320 says:
    12 March, 2018 at 12:49 pm

    Good point. The common refrain whenever this breaks out that it is “only” a minority (a very big minority mind you) and all the other fans are decent. Well maybe but things like the march discussed here and the weekly outpouring of hate – it has to be said mainly from Ibrox (Celtic have a large thuggish element but they tend to be seen mostly at certain games, v. Rangers, Hearts, where their “enemy” are present) but with Rangers it is every week you hear the hate and bile. It is notable that Charles Green found that when trying to reconstitute Rangers the only way he could manage it was to play to the worst elements of the support using the usual dog-whistles.

    To get back to my point, there is a weekly outpouring of hate – we all know the songs and chants – but I’ve never heard of any groups of fans actually attempting to do anything about. OK it would be daft to approach these thugs individually but there has never been a campaign, never been attempts to drown out the bile with “decent” songs, in fact nothing but tacit acceptance (and perhaps not so tacit acceptance). The only attempt was years ago, imposed top-down by David Murray when he was afraid EUFA would ban his club from Europe. These days I’m not sure that would stop them as they seem to be worse in their new incarnation than they were before.

  314. galamcennalath says:

    England had it’s own sectarianism and troubles. In the 18thC this was between Anglicans and Dissenters. There was a strong political element with Dissenters calling for civil rights.

    As always, the Establishment sided naturally with the socially conservative side, the Anglicans. As with NI in the 70s, the local one-sided government was part of the problem. An extract from Wiki …

    While the riots were not initiated by Prime Minister William Pitt’s administration, the national government was slow to respond to the Dissenters’ pleas for help. Local Birmingham officials seem to have been involved in the planning of the riots, and they were later reluctant to prosecute any ringleaders.

    I think the significant lesson is that although religion provides an excuse for division, real trouble is always the result of politics. The Establishment always chooses the poor of the more socially conservative side to do its bidding.

  315. TD says:

    K.A.Mylchreest @ 8.53 a.m.

    Thanks for the link to that interesting article in the Orkney News. My initial reaction was to respond by saying that you were incorrect to include the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands on the basis that they never have been in the EU. However on reading the article, I see that although they are not in the EU, they agree to comply with EU standards on a voluntary basis and that is how they are able to trade freely with the EU, including the UK at present. So of course, if the UK leaves and does not stay in the Customs Union, they will have to decide whether to align themselves with the UK or the EU. By definition, they will be unable to do both.

    It is interesting to note that the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are all rule takers, not rule makers. They have no say in the formulation of rules and just have to comply with what the EU, including the UK up till now, decides. This is the fate that awaits the UK, assuming that things go well and we get a deal. We change from being an influential member state with a full voice at the top table to being a vassal state that does what it is told. And that is the good outcome. So much for “taking back control”.

  316. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I was against this law from the start, for the simple reason that it was redundant.. A duplication of laws already om the statutes- eg. Breach of the Peace, Affray, Assault, Mobbing and Rioting, Terrorism, Hate Crime, etc.”

    Sigh. I really don’t have the time to debunk this absolutely shite patter yet AGAIN.

    “The law’s sole purpose was to stigmatise all football supporters”

    Oh aye, the notoriously sectarian St Johnstone, Hamilton Accies and Morton supports have had this coming.

  317. Tinto Chiel says:

    “O/T Well, I suppose there’s one very small thing to be said for the nerve agent episode, which is it that it quickly outs all the purblind Putin fans, flakes and conspiracy theorists, and gives you a fair notion of how much to trust their balance of judgement.”

    Quite a sweeping statement, RJS.

    For someone so acutely aware of the deceitful games WM plays at our expense, you seem inordinately trusting of them on this issue.

    The reason for many people’s suspicion is that no evidence or proof has been produced yet to justify the condemnation of Russia and the conveniently blanket coverage of this issue.

    There are no white or black hats in international terrorism.

  318. Iain mhor says:

    Dug this one from the archives from 2016. As I thought it was a bit topical (O/T from OBFA tho)
    A wee reminder to us all : One article encompassing, fake news, conspiricies, Brexit, Russia, Scotland and Indyref1 and of course the fine art of trolling!

    I recall being taken aback seeing ‘Wings’ referenced and Douglas Daniel quoted from two years prior (when we were all bubbling about the referendum result)

    Good investigative site – handy if you also want to delve into the tangled web of international intrigue from another angle and discover more of London’s wild west money laundering. If you think it’s Russopgobic at all, bear in mind it was founded by the current leader of the opposition in Russia (Journalist and lawyer) Round and round and round we go….

  319. heedtracker says:

    Thank you for coffee time links Nana!

    Close down Russia tv says Labour on Russian tv. But beeb Scotland gimps love to smear Salmond with it all though.

    Ah the tory britnats, red and blue…

  320. galamcennalath says:

    I read a Twitter exchange the other day where someone from the BBC was defending their coverage of something. I even forget what.

    What did stick in my mind for one nail-on-head reply. It went something like this (my words but the sentiment expressed) … “You might be telling the truth in this situation, but how are we to know? You have peddled so much fake news we can’t trust you.”

    And that is exactly how I also feel about all msm news. I have to treat everything with suspicion. So this chemical attack on the Russian exile and daughter …. heaven knows where the truth lies!

    To compound the situation I have absolutely no trust or confidence in the WM Tory government. It’s not just that I don’t trust their honesty, I don’t trust their judgement, abilities, or skills.

  321. James Westland says:

    jfngw – Good points. And there is another thing bugging me.

    Apparently the table in the restaurant was so badly conmtaminated that it had to be destroyed

    2 questions

    1) Destroying a key piece of evidence in a serious criminal case?

    2) If it was that badly contaminated surely the waiters/ waitresses / other restuarant staff would have been contaminated and seriously ill?

    Something fishy about all this

  322. Capella says:

    Craig Murray on the ball again re the Russian spy hysteria. More to this than meets the eye.

  323. Iain mhor says:

    I thought I might as well point out about the whole proddy thing, defenders of the faith King Billy stuff.
    If the Real Presbytarian Ultras, the Cameronian Guard were actually around today, they would have run the whole OO 1690 brigade out the country… If they were lucky!
    They considered King Billy an uncovenanted tractor.
    Right enough, he did run to England and the ‘popish’ Anglican Kirk the minute the Crown was lobbed at him – thumbing his nose and saying “Schtick your Covenant boysh I have new friendsh now” 🙂

  324. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phronesis says: 13 March, 2018 at 4:56 am:

    “It is not in anyone’s interests to allow such expressions of hate and fear mongering to be legitimised – politicians who are actively undermining anti sectarian legislation should think very carefully about the message that they are sending out.”

    Which message, Phronesis?

    The one they send out to the sectarian bigots that their behaviour is somehow acceptable – or the one they send out to everyone else that the political persons voting to repeal the act are a shower of brainless congenital idiots?

    My point is that when it comes to election time they just may find there is a pay back on what political have done while in office.

  325. heedtracker says:

    You have peddled so much fake news we can’t trust you.”

    Within about 48 hours of them discovering the victims, BBC r4 news started going on and on about it all and have not stopped. It took them a whilee to get rolling though, with their usual line up of mumbling stumbling talking head tories being asked the same questions over and over, beeb gimps pausing to try to think up more questions about how bad Russia is, slowly but surely moving up to UK cabinet levels, of tory waffle.

    War is peace, in teamGB.

  326. Robert Peffers says:

    @Undeadshuann says: 13 March, 2018 at 7:18 am:

    “Perhaps the police did nothing as they were gathering intelligence?
    Did they have camera surveliance units present?”

    Every police officer now wears a camera as standard part of the uniform, Undeadshuann. They don’t even need to think about it – they are recording things all the time. It is a two way thing, though. It records the officer’s reactions to what they see.

    When I was a boy the standard reaction of a constable coming across children behaving badly was a large police issue tackety boot applied to the suspected offender’s Gluteus maximus muscle.

  327. Bill McLean says:

    Russia now asking for a sample of the nerve agent and UKnow who refusing. Oh Dear!

  328. cearc says:

    ‘Military Nerve Agents’ sounds scary, eh? Available in high street beauty parlours throughout the world.

    Mebbe the daughter brought in a batch of dodgy back-street botox.

  329. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:

    Craig Murray on the ball again re the Russian spy hysteria.

    Craig makes excellent points …

    – exchanged spies aren’t killed
    – something more recent is likely to have been the reason
    – timing seems wrong for Russians
    – there are other suspects

  330. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Rosneft vs BP.

  331. Proud Cybernat says:

    BREAKING from Pravda Quay
    with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

  332. Ken500 says:

    The Press and abuse of power afaibst Mark McDomald. Another unionist conspiracy? A witch hunt of lies and totally out of proportion attack. Letting accusers remain anonymous. E-mails and text of totally limited offence. A different zany sense of humour. Not appreciated. Totally misappropriate action that millions embrace every day.

    The unionist MSM using a few inappropriate actions as a major attack pursue totally out of proportion of any actions taken or of abuse An attempt to damage the reputation of an excellent constituency MSP. Hardworking and doing excellent work for additional needs children and theur families raising awareness of autism and those on the spectrum. . A devoted family man with extra burdens of parenthood to achieve. A gentle man respected by all those who know him or have met him. Quite a quiet person. Trying to fit in and give some off hand commentary. Maybe inappropriate behaviour but not of great offence. Some people need to be more thick skinned. Genuine apologies were given.

    All the good deeds done now washed away by scurrilous misreport by the disgusting gutter Press. For political purposes gain? The idea that Mark NcDonald is a ‘sex predator’ is just so ridiculous beyond belief. His actions gave offence. Some people can be far too easily offended. There is not doubt about that. His actual actions or words were far from major offence and were on a minor scale to any portion. Charges could not even be brought. Any charges would be laughed out of court. No matter what the shark faced lawyer says about staff conditions at Holyrrod. Some of the best in the world. The lawyer waiting about for any opportunity to get a employment stream of lucrative public money.

    Some of the anonymous quoted Staff appear to be too far up their own arses and cannot take a joke or a compliment. Full of their own importance. If they can’t take the heat or an occasional misconstrued e-mail stay out of the kitchen. Get a more harmonious position which suits. Not try to destroy someone’s career or world. Of course in this increasingly PC world any back handed (inappropriate comment) is taken as an invasion of space and inappropriate. Totally hysterically over threathening. Some folk need to get a grip.

    The mis reporting by Colin McKay STV is totalling appalling, unprofessional biased in every way. Insulting and bully in way. Hysterical and totally out of order. Off bias and not impartial. For biased political advantage as usual. The usual lies and dishonestly. it could be just a unionist conspiracy knowing led by McKay. McKay should be disciplined and sacked for the lies. The outrageous bully. Kettle black. The stuff he comes out with,

    Is this acceptable professional commentary ‘You will be put in the basement’. ‘Are you not just doing it for the money’ ‘Are you just doing it for the money’ Harrassment. He was elected by the people and doing an excellent job. How many abusive e-mails and texts has McKay sent. He gives abusive reports each and every day. Insulting the viewers and listens with a total load of biased inappropriate nonsense. Let him who throw the first stone. Total hypocrite. His reports are total nonsense. A pack of lies and anti SNP lies. Total inappropriate, abusive and economically dangerous. Like all the MSM a load of total tosh.

    The gutter press acting as judge and jury out and out inaccurate facts. McKay is not fit to lick NcDonald’s boots. A total hypocrite. The good work that Mark McDonald is and has done for thec society and the community. Excellent. Compared to the damage Colin McKay and the gutter Press has done to the society and the community. Lowlives the lot of them.

    Mark McDonald has a family to support has have special needs and consideration. Give it a break and show some compassion. The up shot of it is in the NE. Mark NcDonald has resigned and could leave his post, The result could be with Mark McDonald having been so discredited for limited unintentional abuse. Wires being crossed on the WWW. statements coming out not as had been intended. It happens every minute of every day, That’s why a bit of caution has to be exercise. In a professional way. The rules of civility can be broken from a so called professional code. This can give minor offence but not in a hanging way. It happens every minute of every day a million times a day. Modern technology getting the wires and messages crossed an incident constantly without report or comment. Every second, the wonders of the WWW but at least there is a block button. To overcome any problems. Just press it.

    The outcome of it is if Mark McDonald does not stay in Office and there is a by election.With the bad, inappropriate publicity. The gutter Press acting as judge and jury without revealing the true facts of the position. Or accurately reported what was sent or done. For sensationalism. Plus the anonymous account from accusers who could be giving false account for other reasons. Political reason, notoriety or the money. Or just out to get someone because they can jumping on the bandwagon. For their own perceived kudos. Making themselves seem a bit more important, opinioned or influential. The political class is not without a bit of infighting. Jockeying for position. Not insubstantional. For self preservation and favours, The stakes can be high in their eyes. Most other folk detest it.. Who can tell? With no evidence. Collaboration or otherwise.

    The outcome could be that there could be a by election. Not another one. People are already sick fed up of them. The political class at the minute are not doing themselves any favours. Destroying the economy. On a political system in Scotland that the electorstec does not understand. That gives unionist unfair advantage, The reason it was introduced. The result could be the last thing the NE or anywhere needs at the minute or any other time. Another fecking useless Tory incompetent in Holyrood (from NE) lowering any SNP majority. Hardly unlikely. It has already happened folk getting sick of it and not coming out to vote.

    The NE lost the best politicans anyone could have had Alex Salmond etc by a small,majority. For the worst politicans they could ever get. Two fecking useless lying Tories. Peter Chapman and Colin Clark. Two lying incumbents. They even support a hard Brexit which would destroy the NE economy. They even blame the SNP for forty years of Tory unionist fishing policy which the SNP did not support. Even before 2000 when the Holyrood Gov was established. The Parliament they want to wreck. Destroying the Scottish economy and any worthwhile powers. The only thing that has helped the Scottish economy since 2000. Improved under good SNP Gov. They want to wreck it. Racists and bigots. They are so uninformed it is embarrassing.

    Or even worse still. The totally unthinkable, please, please no st any cost. Willy fecking Young, It makes folk absolutely sick to the thought. WillynYiung tonscrew upmthe economy not just in the BE but in Scotland. A thieving little sycophant who has wasted public money like there is no tomorrow.
    Destroyed the City and the economy. Wasted £Millions of taxpayers money on grotesque projects of no value. No one wanted. The City in £1. 2Billion if debt. Cut spending on essential services. Cut Education allocation. The City littered with unfinished over budgeted monstrosities of any business case. No one wanted. Without authority. A complete snake, A horror. The thought if him makes folk sick and really angry. Detested unanimously by everyone in the City of every political persuasion or walk of live. He stood in the constituency the last time.

    He was finally voted out from the council constituency the last time. Although the non existent unionist Alliance are still corruptly running the City into the ground as per usual. The largest group elected the SNP (19) who would run the City with competence.and balanced budget. The only time it was being run properly. With popular support.

    All now destroyed. by the non existent unionist. Alliance. Making terrible appalling decisions. Still run by 9 corrupt Labour supposed be expelled from their own Party, A total shambles, kept in place by a corrupt LibDem who illegally betrayed her electorate, elected as a Tory she immediately became an Independent and joined the unionist Alliance Party. A Party that dies not exist on any ekectiral register. No integrity and broke the Council code of conduct, Cupid stun’s mate. Plus a two jobs Tory totally spaced out. Destroying the local economy and peopl’s lives. Jobs and employment, They are so ill informed it is embarrassing. They can’t count or read a balance sheet and lie all the time.

    Anything Mark McDonald has done pales into significance A storm in a teacup. A mountain out of a mole hill. Compared to the rest of the Corruption. Most of them should bei in jail but are still in Office.

    Please, please, please no more Willy Young and Co. It will crack folk up.

    Mark McDonald sebt a text message. Predictive text. Made a comment thevtge wird had change to ‘fingering’. Totally inappropruate but not really abusive and threatening. A niave attempt at humour? Totally inappropriate. Most folk would have said cut it out. Or give a short retort back.

    A drunken colleague slept it off. In his room hotel,or function? Happens every day. Some might say doing a favour. Not consideration of the drunken resposiblity. No inpropiety reported to have taken place. An e-nail was sent by him. Calling himself a total arsehole but having to draw the line in working with an MSP interested in ‘attractive and interesting’ internet (colleagues). A bit of a back handed compliment, but taken as an invasion of space etc. In the hysteria abusive world. The new PC of equality and modernity. The screenshot was saved (for future use) Totally inappropriate but some folk would have just told him to shut his face. Or words to that effect. Feck off yer perv. Totally inappropriate in any kind of language. A woman’s bum or beast was touched or looked at at a social function?. Possibly by accident. Happens every day. Nearly every person in the world could be out of a job for this activities. Some high jinks drunken dancing. An embarrassment but not life changing.

    E-mail were sent. Contents not disclosed yet. Abusive possibly. That landed someone in hospital for six months. A few e-mail,landed sonpmeone in hospital for six months. That is impossible without relevant other underlying causes.

    Maybe it is clasping at straws but anyone but Willy Young or the rest who abuses the community and the society every single blooming fray. Along with his associates get away with criminal behaviour every day. With impunity and never, ever apologises.

    It is often those who make major complaint about receiving abusive expletive texts and e-mail, messages that are also sending them. Or have a history of sending them. Maybe they think no one will remember. Kettle black. Who would throw the first stone. People in glass houses Etc, etc. There is a block and a switch off button on nearly every electronic device. Maybe every one should be aware of them. Or every one should start using them. Or everyone should start being kinder and respectful,to each other. Wonder when that will happen? Any time soon? In the present political climate.

  333. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Actually, scratch that, BP have a 20% stake in Rosneft.

    Still, I reckon it’s about oil. Or pipelines.

    Not a scooby.

  334. Ken500 says:

    Sorry. Another ‘long one’. Hope that isn’t taken out of context.

  335. Ken500 says:

    SKy BBC etc a switch off. Totally misreporting.

  336. Greannach says:

    If only Margaret Rutherford were available instead of Theresa May to preside over the whole Mouse That Roared festivities

  337. Phil says:

    jfngw says:
    13 March, 2018 at 9:41 am

    “England First legislation”

    “English Votes for Scottish Laws”

    There we have it! Loud and clear.

  338. Ananurhing says:

    Just after the Skripal poisoning story broke, there was an “in the know” commentator on BBC stating that Skripal had more recently been advising the Spanish Govt. on their Russian Mafia investigations.

    Haven’t seen or heard it mentioned again since then.

  339. Bobp says:

    Bob mack 9.48am. Aye the stand alone little Englander brexiteers and their dup allies can sabre rattle all they like against russia. Their days of ruling the roost are over. So suck it up brit nats. You don’t rule the waves anymore.

  340. cearc says:

    Anybody who turns up with ‘loads of dirty money’ and claiming to have fallen out with Putin is welcomed with open arms and instantly given permission to stay.

    Payments to the governments political party and members are welcomed. Invitations to ‘exclusive’ fundraisers given. Private and social access to the government and its advisers readily obtained.

    Makes Philby and co. look like poor amateurs doesn’t it?

  341. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    galamcennalath and others

    Has any proof been provided yet that the Russian Government had anything to do with this? Thought not.
    Why then is the SNP making statements about it? What has it got to do with our road to independence?

    I see the fake Syrian Observatory for Human Rights being give huge coverage in today’s media.

    The grandly named Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is a one man operation run from a small semi detached house in Coventry. He has not been in Syria for fifteen years having fled the country fearing another jail sentence for anti Government behaviour. He is a renowned anti President Assad Islamic activist. He has absolutely no access to any reliable sources of information from Syria and purports to collate information daily by phone calls from friends in Syria. There is zero credibility to any information he supplies. The real reason for the deaths in Syria is the invasion of a stable and secular Syria by well armed and well funded Islamic terrorist groups. Well armed and well funded by whom is the million dollar question. I think most of us know the answer to that.

  342. Bob Mack says:

    I believe Craig Murray has done a brilliant analysis on this subject. Truly insightful. This whole business is very murky indeed, with no clear line of blame. I think the Tories are way out of their depth, or are setting a scene for something else.

  343. geeo says:

    Oh look…another Daily Politics, another lack of SNP guests of the day.

    Considering its Spring Statement day, you would expect a Scottish voice to be represented.

    SNP…airbrushed out of existance by the state propaganda channel.

    Indh cannot come soon enough.

  344. Jeff says:

    The sooner we separate church and state and do away with all “religious” schooling the better.What a backwards wee country this is. Less than 3% of Scots attend church or consider themselves ‘religious’ yet our children are split up for schooling on religious/sectarian grounds. Utter nonsense.

  345. Proud Cybernat says:

    Russia has to be blamed and discredited so that UK Gov can revoke RT broadcasting license in UK. There can be no alternative narrative to the UK’s propaganda outlet, the BBC.

  346. heedtracker says:

    geeo says:
    13 March, 2018 at 12:06 pm
    Oh look…another Daily Politics, another lack of SNP guests of the day.

    Better out of this latest tory catastrofuck. Russia’s got less than 12 hours now to respond to Teresa’s deadline ultimatum, then what?

    It can’t all just be to get RT out of their UK zone and there are multi billions of Russian oligarch rubles in London today.

  347. Capella says:

    The SNP doesn’t always back the UK government’s war mongering activites. Alex Salmond made a great speech in the Commons against the Iraq War calling it “unpardonable folly”.

    The stage production “Black Watch” played excerpts of the speech during scenes of glaring lights from bombs and mortar fire all aroud the troops in Iraq. Very effective.

  348. alba 46 says:

    RE Dave McEwan Hill 1159hrs

    Couldn’t agree with you more. Nicola Sturgeon jumped on the anti Russian bandwagon. Really disappointed by this. No truck with Russia in general however if the English government is convinced it was them show us the bloody EVIDENCE!

    Another horror story from the same westmister midden that brought you the evidence of WMD – NOT

  349. galamcennalath says:

    The EU have been very patient with the UK, but now seems to be demanding some action. Also, warnings against regulatory divergence …

    We find out more from overseas press!

  350. The agents that do these things are usually very skilled but the two people they were to kill are still alive and Halfe the town is contaminated to me it seems to be a leak from Portland down that the government are trying to hide,l called into lbc about this but I was not allowed on air they ask you to call in but if they don’t like your oppinion you are not allowed on air,I am sure they have black list I have not been allowed on for months now typical this illusion of democracy

  351. geeo says:


    Was thinking more about the lack of an SNP voice for the Spring Statement.

    Not really interested in the big Red Ruski Squirrel being used to hide from the Brexit clusterfuck.

  352. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Jeff at 12.07

    You are the one talking nonsense. There is no “splitting up of children”. The sending of children to religious schools is entirely voluntary.

    The most intolerant people one is likely to meet are secularists who would deny parents their fundamental rights to have their children educated the way they would like. Throw back to soviet style tyranny.

  353. Legerwood says:

    Fred says:
    13 March, 2018 at 9:33 am
    The system of the Kirk, the Parish School & provision for the Poor, collapsed in the 1880’s. The flood of folk escaping the Great Famine in the Highlands & Ireland showed up it’s deficiencies which were exacerbated by the Cholera outbreaks in the same decade & the parish kirk unable to cope with the need for mass-graves. So Poor-House provision, municipal cemeteries & schools & a greatly weakened Kirk which split in two at the Disruption with the emergence of the Free Kirk.

    You seem a bit wide of the mark in assigning all of that to the 1880s.

    The Great Disruption which led to the formation of the Free Church of Scotland happened in 1843.

    The potato famine which affected the Highlands and Islands was in 1845-55 And the newly formed Free Church of Scotland were to the fore in bringing aid to the Highlands and Islands in the initial stages of the famine and helped to mitigate its effects compared to The devastation caused in Ireland although, as in Ireland it did lead to an increase in emigration from the Highlands an Islands but not to The same degree as in Ireland.

    The Free Church also commenced a school building programme which led to an expansion of school provision in Scotland from The 1840s onwards. The 1872 Education Act (Scotland) set up regional School boards to takeover responsibility for schools and schooling

    The last cholera outbreak in Scotland was in the 1860s. The two major cholera outbreaks in Scotland were in 1831-2 And 1848.

    Poorhouses already existed in Edinburgh and Glasgow in the early decades of the 19th century. The 1845 Poor Law Act led to the provision of more poorhouses in Scotland and by 1868 there were 50 such poorhouses. The Churches role in provision for the poor had by then been superseded by the state although it may still have had some role in rural areas.

    Municipal cemeteries started in the early decades of the 19th century. The Necropolis in Glasgow opened in 1833 although it started as a commercial cemetery.

  354. Artyhetty says:

    Re; Dave McEwan Hill@11.59

    Went to see what SNP were saying via Twitter about this whole spy case poisoning, and yes, they seem keen to go along with May in her blaming the Russians. I would have expected SNP to take a measured stance on this and to be saying let’s see what transpires and wait for evidence.

    Being as we are excluded from Brexit negotiations, and treated with utter contempt at WM and just in general, the SNP should let May dig her own hole, and say nothing for now. Why side with her, right now, as if we are all a cosy UKOK family, when the opposite is true. Today is just rubbish so far!

  355. heedtracker says:

    The most intolerant people one is likely to meet are secularists who would deny parents their fundamental rights to have their children educated the way they would like. Throw back to soviet style tyranny.”

    Bit grumpier than usual today Dave.

    Who sets the Scottish school curriculum Dave, or is that the line?

    Leaving stuff like education to parents or the god squad, is not a great idea at all.

  356. HandandShrimp says:

    The situation regarding the Skripal case is worrisome. It seems wholly improbable as has been suggested by some in Russia that the UK would do this. The UK has more than enough on its plate as it is and it isn’t coping very well with that and Skripal was our man and had been retired for years.

    Russia has a track record of opponents being assassinated. Far too many opposition politicians, journalists and those who have fled abroad, have died. Russia has a mafia underbelly and associated corruption that would rival Southern Italy. Quite what the appropriate response should be is another matter but the poisoner in taking out a young woman and UK emergency services has screwed up. The cost benefit analysis is not going to work in Russia’s favour unless they can collar the culprits.

    Of course it could be a third party state players seeking to drive deeper wedges between Russia and the West but I can’t think of any immediate candidates. Turkey? Israel? Probably not.

  357. HandandShrimp says:

    On another matter, Nicola and May are meeting tomorrow to discuss devolved powers in a hope to resolve the deadlock, so why are the BBC still headlining with MacDonald?

    On MacDonald I still don’t know what he is supposed to have done. Harassment? Bullying? His attitude and approach seems to have adversely affected the mental health of someone he worked with and while that is not acceptable behaviour and action was required is it top billing for three days when so much else is going on? Or are all the BBC churnalists at Pacific Quay off sick or something?

  358. HandandShrimp says:

    Rex Tillerson appeared to be backing the UK over Russia but Trump has just fired him.

    I am no longer sure what universe I am living in.

  359. Bob Mack says:


    Read Craig Murray article.

  360. Ken500 says:

    Trump maybe isn’t as bad after all. Compared to the rest and the opposition. Clear out the swamp. Not so interest in illegal wars and poverty as some of the rest of them. Lining their pockets.

    Johnston the criminal, out in the cold. No illegal wars for him. Jonny na mates.

  361. Ian Foulds says:

    stu mac says:
    13 March, 2018 at 9:53 am

    ‘The only attempt was years ago, imposed top-down by David Murray when he was afraid EUFA would ban his club from Europe. These days I’m not sure that would stop them as they seem to be worse in their new incarnation than they were before.’

    Our beloved Westminster Government seems to have it in for Mr. Putin.

    Could we ask him if he would like to take Rangers and Celtic into his football federation. I am sure his bovver boys would sort out ‘hard men’?

  362. heedtracker says:

    Rex Tillerson appeared to be backing the UK over Russia but Trump has just fired him.

    He called Trump a fucking moron, after Trump’s weird response to Puerto Rico disaster.

    Its the world of the hard core right, UK and USA.

    And 55% of Scots wanted to continue to be governed by them, because they thought Scots are not able to do it for themselves.

    That’s some triumph of UK tory propaganda, a lifetime of it.

    BBC in particular has got Trump big fat arse covered over here, almost completely blocking out all the spectacular shit that’s going on with Trump, over there.

    Try to picture beeb gimp led msm fury over here, at an Obama presidency as shite as Trump.

    Or, look at how our tory beeb led media gimps in their Scotland are monstering the life out of SNP and Mark MacDonald, for what?

    Severin Carrell for example is actually writing some stuff for his massive Scotland region readership. Who knew that The Graun’s Scotland reporters could be so busy.

    “The Guardian has previously reported profound concerns among women at Holyrood that, despite the staff survey and an ongoing inquiry by the standards committee, the kind of institutional shifts necessary to embed change have yet to materialise.”

    SNP out, vote NO, you know the drill.

  363. Bob Mack says:

    May has a problem now. Tillerson sacked only hours after blaming the Russians. Latest White house statement draws back on that accusation.I sense a humiliating climbdown is on the cards folks

  364. Valerie says:

    @ Bob Mack

    completely agree, Craig Murray has penned a thoughtful piece that raises the questions.

    However, anyone here or on Twitter saying ‘what evidence’ are Kremlin stooges.

    I am not surprised by this Skripal affair, but I am surprised that SNP have gleefully leapt on the bandwagon. They could have said A LOT to condemn and support, without actually climbing onto the bandwagon driven by May.

    The same Tories that lie week in, week out, that kill the populace with sanctions, that tell us the SNP are a security risk REPEATEDLY.

    Westminster banging wardrums at a time they are beleaguered with Brexit, can’t get EU to do what they want. WM, conducting a power grab on Holyrood.

    Lavrov has requested access to the materials uncovered. Brits could have put massive conditions in place for such acess, but no, just an immediate refusal.

    Two newspapers, have reported ‘spy death’. The man is not dead.

    But, but, you Kremlin stooge, just shut up.

    I know I’m being picky, but before taking on the world’s biggest nuclear military power, it would be nice to have a scintilla of evidence, rather than ‘its most likely’.

  365. Ken500 says:

    The BBC correspondent looks like he has been on the drink Looks half pished. All that illegal public expenses.

    Tories not not like wealthy crude Americans. Americans do not like posh priviledge imbecile Oxbridge boys. They have the wire of the wide boys.

    The useless Tories wide boys trying to protect their jobs and their criminals. May looks like she is on drugs. Doped up.

    The criminal Tory boys have totally overstepped the mark. No more illegal wars for them to cover up their criminality. Costing £Billions and killing millions to cover up their criminal activities.

    When will these criminal imbecile, pycho bastards be out. Still there embezzling public money and lining their own and their associates pockets. Lying corrupt criminals.

    Lie, after lie, after lie. Most of them should be in jail. About the Law. The Laws that they make.

  366. orri says:

    Watched GoggleBox for about the second or third time. Can’t remember who it was said it but one of their viewers mentioned that it’d be Mossad.

    My own thoughts would be that Russia may have arranged any number of suspicious deaths and even blatant ones but this is the first time they’ve been as reckless. Unless that’s a hype by the UK so whip up hysteria.

    Not sure agencies trying to blame Russia or anyone else would be any less cautious.

  367. Valerie says:

    @ Handandshrimp

    Is your universe in the nuclear blast zone? That might clear the fog and focus the mind a bit.

    Rex Tillerson’s sacking literally following his support to May speaks volumes. UK picks this fight with Putin without USA. Tories must be raging right now.

    None of this is hanging together.

  368. heedtracker says:

    None of this is hanging together.

    It could literally be how the world ends.

    Brinkmanship with WMD’s. See you all in the next world, ruled by the toryboys, a minority too.

    What’s happened to Colonel Ruth though, isn’t she the greatest, most clever, most wise Scottish tory to ever have existed.

    Although what use will the Colonel be to survivors of the UKOK nuclear holocaust?

    Radiation canary

  369. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 13 March, 2018 at 7:43 am:

    “Frankly I think the world has moved on and to blame ‘Russia ‘ for all our ills is infantile and too damned convenient for Westminster at this time.”</i

    You're not wrong there, Dorothy, but that wasn't my point.

    The point was that there is most certainly evidence in this case. For starters forensic evidence will most certainly have been gathered not only from the scene where the two victims were found unconscious but also from the unfortunate police officer also affected It will also have come from the eating place where the victims dined.

    There will be collected CCTV video evidence also in and around those locations.

    That forensic evidence will include spectrum analyses of the nerve agent and that probably identifies the source of the nerve agent used.

    None of which, at this point, indicates who carried out the attempted assassination. It will probably only have identified the, "Original", source of the nerve agent used. That is quite a different matter as identifying the perpetrators.

    The case I mentioned of the person jabbed with the Umbrella was just that. The USSR KGB were involved as the agent used in that case originally came from them but it is not evidence they knowingly supplied it or helped to plan the assassination.

    You are thus correct in claiming it is not established that Russia were knowingly involved but if forensics has identified the original source as Russia then Russia is involved as the nerve agent originally came from Russia. It does not, though, prove Russia did anything other than make it in the first place.

    I spent more than enough time in a RADIAC Lab to learn that you can never jump to conclusions from evidence. You must take it as just what it is – a scientific fact still to be analysed logically.

    Give you a for-instance – We had a Health Physics Monitor who concluded that a very hot-spot inside a nuclear reactor was safe as the instrument he used read a low level. Yet the location was extremely high level.

    So why had he drawn the wrong conclusion?

    Instruments used to detect radiation have a special electronic circuit fitted. This circuit is because instrument used in an extremely high radiation area can have their Geiger tube become, "saturated", and this make the Geiger counter meter reading drops to near zero.

    That is, the tube doing the detecting has reached the limit of the counting circuit which cannot now count it. The special circuit fitted forces the meter to bang onto the top end stop of the meter instead of registering zero at the bottom.

    The Health Physics monitor guy had wrongly assumed he had hold of a defective instrument and then drawn another instrument from the store and tried again – and again – and again and so on until he lifted an instrument that I had, (just by chance), just diagnosed as defective but had not had time to label as defective.

    When he grabbed it, (swearing about our bad calibration and testing), and shot off back into the reactor compartment I quickly donned protective clothing and followed him.

    On confronting him with his extremely dangerous actions his reply was, “A good Monitor knows what to expect”. Mine was, “So why is it they issue you lot with instruments if you know better than the instruments”?

    The evidence cannot lie but the person interpreting it wrongly certainly can. He had interpreted the meter’s sudden drop off as a true reading and the almost instantaneous bang off the top end stop as a glitch and a defective meter.

    That jumping to conclusions by Westminster is probably only on the evidence the nerve agent was USSR/Russian manufactured. There simple hasn’t been enough time to correlate all the evidence as many of the results will not be either finished or properly studied.

    As how that works is todays news that there will be further charges in historic sex abuse cases because of the changes of Police Scotland bringing all former area forces together. Comparing the records throws up more cases hidden among the former separate police areas. The evidence was there all along but required proper joined-up analysis to reveal those other culprits.

  370. galamcennalath says:

    heedtracker says:

    55% of Scots wanted to continue to be governed by them, because they thought Scots are not able to do it for themselves.

    That is certainly the consequence of voting NO, however it was the intent of less than 55%. Those who “wanted” and thought us “not able” may be 30-40%. Other factors like risk to income, pensions, wealth and status, or wanting to guarantee EU membership {snigger}, or faux family reasons motivated NOs.

    Basically a not of NOs want no change. They have been disappointed!

    Much of what motivated NO voting has evaporated now. My optimistic view is it will be the NaeSayers trying to justify the risky option next time.

    So while agree the msm onslaught is endless, I’m not so sure it is still effective. Yes, for some, but more than ever see through it.

    And we mustn’t forget polls in 2013/14 were predicting a Labour gov at WM. Too many Scots get swayed into believing Labour@WM is significantly better than Tory@WM when there is no recent historical evidence of that.

    Now that still poses a threat. We need to make sure anyone temped by Corbyn’s alleged charms needs to still vote YES as the progressive option in ScotRef.

  371. Ken500 says:

    Stop criticising the SNP. Sometimes quite naive, Right in the Unionists barrow. None of this carry on has had anything to do with them. Or is any of their doing Any criticism of the SNP just helps the unionists. Playing right into their corrupt barrow and can be used against them. Increasing unionist support. Ruining the Scottish Gov economy, society and community. It is just helping the opposition. Bringing in more corrupt Tories and unionists representation. Especially by ill informed people and voter against their own best interest.

    If people want to do it. Do it eleewhere. Do it privately or on other sites and faciltues. Anywhere. Not on open public major FFA/Independence supporting websites. The only ones. Or it will be used to damage the Scottish economy. The sick, vulnerable and especially women and children who need support.

  372. Robert Peffers says:

    @Scot Finlayson says: 13 March, 2018 at 8:03 am:

    “would the UK State scientists need to have had some (previous to incident) of the Novichok nerve agent to make a comparison to confirm what it was.”

    Probably yes. Strangely enough the scientists are far more likely to pool and share than are military and political people.

  373. Cactus says:

    Afternoon Nana & all ~

    “Tailbacks of up to 30 miles and rotting food at Calais… do not pass Theresa May’s Brexit tests. The government needs to get its fingers out of its ears

    The above would also surely suggest and mean that:

    Return journey tailbacks of up to 30 miles and rotting food at Dover…’
    Pooooeeeee, smeh-lee.

    There are going to be lots more sea going vessels in iScotland.

    Enjoy yer late lunches.

  374. Fred says:

    @ Legerwood, just testing you out? it was of course the 1840’s, Ur the first to notice! Glasgow’s first municipal cemeteries opened in the 1840’s in response to the scandal & inquiry into private mass-graves opened in the east-end of the city right next to the houses. The Necropolis was opened before that time by the merchants as their own kirkyard at the Ramshorn was full, other kirkyards ditto.

    The Free Church even built schools for Catholic weans

  375. Ken500 says:

    Everything of this is hanging together. The world does not want any more illegal wars that are quite unnecessary and ruining the world economy. Or Tories ruining the world economy to line their own pockets. People want peace, prosperity and security. Equality and support of the poorer and vulnerable. Conciliation and reconcilliation. They are all sick of illegal war and humiliation by the British State,

    Vote for Independence. Give them the mandate. Then the SNP will speak out. Everything will come out. Until then their hands and mouths are tied because people in Scotland were lied to and they voted No. The were not given the mandate. When given a second chance they will probably not it again. They will have learnt their lesson and will vote YES.

  376. Alba 46 says:

    Ken 500 @1:41
    Stop criticising the SNP. Sometimes quite naive, Right in the Unionists barrow.

    Good God you sound like the Unionist media who very seldom analytically criticise the Tories, Labour and Lib dem. Do you want to shut down all posts that in any way criticise the SNP?. I am a card carrying member of the SNP and a great supporter but I will not condone anything that i don’t agree with.

    Stiffling public debate / postings is what the westminster funded BBC and the MSM do. WE do not on this website. I am really surprised by your post as I am a follower of you on this website and you have posted a lot of good genuine info re the Aberdeen council fiasco.

  377. Cactus says:

    Also FYI:

    The ‘Armed Forces Careers Office’ at 78 Queen Street, Glasgow…

    Is now no more, they’ve shut up shop, gone.

    That’s got to be a good thing, right?

    Tam Shepherd’s laughing 🙂

  378. geeo says:

    Robert Peffers @1.45pm.

    This is interesting, from ex MI5 whistleblower.

    ‘Just because the poison was made in Russia doesn’t mean they’re behind it’ – ex-MI5 officer (VIDEO)

  379. Fred says:

    Kezia Dugdale not at all happy with folk neglecting their constituents & taking time off from their very well-paid jobs at Holyrood!

  380. Dan Huil says:

    It seems everything British nationalist politicians are doing just now, whether brexit, power-grabbing, failure to get trade deals and cocking things up with Russia, is just proving how arrogant, ignorant and incompetent this Westminster government is. And it’s only going to get worse.

    Scotland’s government is right to keep out of the Russia stooshie and concentrate on Britnat attepts to undermine Holyrood. FM meeting May tomorrow. Hope Nicola sticks the boot into the pathetic May.

  381. heedtracker says:

    . I am a card carrying member of the SNP and a great supporter but I will not condone anything that i don’t agree with.”

    But what exactly are you not condoning?

    This is just another tory yoon monstering of everything Scottish democracy, Holyrood, SNP out etc.

    All the British media gimps have piled on, top billing for BBC Scotland tv news attack propaganda,

    Or hammer of the vile seps in his Scotland region Severin Carrell implies,

    “This frustration appears to be shared by Nicola Sturgeon, the first minister and SNP leader, who told reporters on Tuesday she could not see why McDonald felt it was right to remain at Holyrood if he felt it necessary to leave the party because of his conduct.”

    THe fact that we are not being told what exactly the accused has done, is not a surprise.

    Anyone can say they’re a card carrying member of the SNP and a great supporter right enough.

  382. Alba 46 says:

    Heedtracker 2:24

    “I am a card carrying member of the SNP and a great supporter but I will not condone anything that i don’t agree with.” But what exactly are you not condoning?”

    Sturgeons condemnation of Russia without ANY evidence

  383. Valerie says:

    @ Dan Huil

    Ian Blackford in HoC last night supported everything May said, and supported action against Russia. SNP have put themselves quite firmly on May’s side.

    In fact, the only person abused last night was Corbyn, for raising Russian donations to Tories. I despise Corbyn, but fair play to him. He was howled down.

    So, the next time independence comes up, oh, you were all for action on Russia by UK, but now you are a security risk all over again, cos Russia will get you without us.

    I’m not happy at all, and anyone that knows me, knows I never criticise Scotgov.

  384. Proud Cybernat says:


    Ofcom spokesperson: “The Russian news channel RT broadcasts in the UK under licences issued by Ofcom as the broadcasting regulator.

    “Ofcom has an ongoing duty to be satisfied that all broadcast licensees are fit and proper to hold a licence.

    “We have heard the Prime Minister’s statement in the House of Commons this afternoon and we await her further statement on Wednesday. We will then consider the implications for RT’s broadcast licences.” From:

  385. Dan Huil says:

    @Valerie 2:33pm

    Blackford said what he said because, IMO, he knows Westminster’s attempt at power-grabbing is more important to Scotland than Westminster’s hand-bagging with Russia.

    Your argument “…Russia will get you without us” has always been there and, again IMO, has had next to no influence in how folk voted in indyref1 and will have next to no influence in indyref2 particularly because most people in Scotland know the so-called united kingdom, with Scotland currently in it, is today too weak and powerless to prevent “Russia getting them”.

    The Scottish government must concentrate 100% on what’s best for achieving its independence and that means, at the moment, concentrating on rejecting Westminster’s power-grabbing, thereby setting up future constitutional problems for British nationalists.

  386. heedtracker says:

    Sturgeons condemnation of Russia without ANY evidence

    Different timeline friend.

    Actually very different, other universe different:D

    All I am saying is that we have no idea what the accused MSP has done, just the usual BBC Scotland led astonishing smear campaigning, aimed primarily at their relentless SNP Out.

    I caught one BBC Scotland teatime news thing on the MSP’s press conference and have never seen such desperate beeb Scotland SNP out gimpery, since the day before.

    They even had the beeb Scotland camera gimp rushing at the closing door behind the SNP, about 10 feet.


    Because that’s entry level beeb Scotland attack propaganda camera view techniques. i

    Its also up there with their close ups of red and blue tory conference non crowds or when they film a royals visit to Scotland, that no one over ten and not a tourist, goes to watch.

  387. Capella says:

    @ Legerwood – I appreciate your short articles on Social Policy. Keep it up! Would have said so earlier but the internet went down for an hour or so.

  388. Dan Huil says:

    Mr Blackford correctly concentrating on what matters for Scotland:

    [From The National]

    “Scotland “is shackled to a sinking ship” as the UK heads towards a hard Brexit, the SNP has said.

    Tory MPs shouted at him as Ian Blackford accused the UK Government of a “shameful” lack of Brexit preparation and warned crashing out of the European Union could be an “economic catastrophe”.

    He also said Chancellor Philip Hammond “deserves a red card”, as he poked fun at Scottish Tory MP Douglas Ross.

    Hammond said the Scottish economy was growing slower than the rest of the UK under the SNP, adding it was “about keeping afloat” for his colleagues north of the border.

    Blackford, the party’s leader at Westminster, said: “The progress of this Government in readying for Brexit has been nothing short of shameful.

    “The UK Government’s own analysis tells us that under all scenarios, Scotland would suffer a relatively greater loss in economic output than the United Kingdom as a whole.

    “A no deal scenario would be significantly devastating, threatening to reduce growth by a massive 9% over 15 years.

    “Make no mistake that a hard Brexit is going to hit the pockets of families, is going to lead to a loss in tax revenue expectations. It’s therefore going to affect spending on public services, and yet the Chancellor is silent on the risks to our economy.

    “Risks to our economy, when the stresses and strains of a near-decade of austerity is hurting. The fact is, Scotland is shackled to a sinking ship.”

    In his response to the Spring Statement, Mr Blackford raised cuts to Scotland’s block grant from the UK Government and the “vindictive” measure to charge VAT on Scottish police and fire services, which has since been ended.

    Blackford said the SNP would continue to campaign for single market and customs union membership “to prevent the economic catastrophe of an extreme Tory Brexit”.

    He added: “I have to say that was much ado about nothing, and the real tragedy is that we’re 10 years on from the financial crisis, and austerity is still with us and there was a lack of hope given to the people of the United Kingdom from this statement today.”

    Hammond said: “A matter of rather more immediate urgency for the people of Scotland will be how their economy will withstand the highest rates of taxation in the United Kingdom.

    “An economy that under the SNP government is already growing more slowly than the economy of the United Kingdom.

    “I don’t know about sinking ship. It’s about keeping afloat, I’d suggest to him.”

    Blackford also poked fun at Scottish Tory Mr Ross, with the Moray MP having been an assistant referee at the weekend in the Old Firm match between Rangers and Celtic.

    “At the weekend we saw (Mr Ross) in his other job as a linesman at the Glasgow Celtic vs Rangers football match, waving a flag enthusiastically calling for a red card,” said Mr Blackford.

    “If anybody deserves a red card today, it’s the Chancellor of the Exchequer.”

    Tory MPs shouted at Blackford that it should be him who received the red card.”

  389. Glamaig says:

    How long has the Mark McDonald story been no.1 on the BBC Scotland politics page? Days I would say. They usually have quite a quick turnover. I’m trying to imagine the incredible disappearing coverage if he had been Tory or Labour.

  390. geeo says:

    Wonder why Severin Carrell and the other Media gimp squad, have not been asking about a high profile allegation of sexual impropriety at Holyrood.

    A few weeks ago, Labour’s Monica Lennon declared that she had been sexually assaulted by “a senior labour official” while 6 others watched and said nothing.

    The labour party stated that they would only investigate such an allegation when one was reported to them and none (allegation) had been made.

    So, it seems that either, Monica Lennon has lied about what happened to her, or CHOSEN NOT to report it, after making a public allegation of being sexually assaulted.

    If Lennon is telling the truth, then she is allowing a senior labour official, to get away with a serious offence by refusing to officially action such an allegation.

    Any media wishing to be taken seriously, would be all over this story like a rash, on multiple fronts.

    . Is Monica Lennon telling the truth.

    . If so, why has she not reported it officially.

    . Who is the alleged attacker, a senior figure no less.

    . Who are the 6 who witnessed this and said nothing.

    . Why would the party simply decide not to investigate such an allegation, whether an official complaint has been made or not.

    There has not been a peep by any media on this case, so, we can only assume that if Monica Lennon is telling the truth, and why would she make such a claim if it didn’t happen (that would make her unfit for office) then by remaining silent (officially) she is allowing a high ranking sexual offender and 6 complient witnesses to her assault, to get off with no punishment.

    Even THAT is a worthy media story, worthy of investigation.

    And yet, nothing done about it.

    Mark McDonald on the other hand…apparently is big news, yet nobody knows what he has supposed to have done !!

    One case is SNP related, the other is labour party related…the difference in reporting is there for all to see.

  391. Confused says:

    Deep contacts within the Anonymous hacking collective have allowed me to unearth the exact messages sent by Mark McDonald

    “you have pretty hair and my tummy goes all wubbly when I look at you … will you be my special friend”

    – this was sent to Mrs Hilda CoalScuttle, a famous “cam-whore” on the “60 plus MILF” circuit.

    – the sexual objectification and loaded meaning of “special friend” are quite clear and damning IMO. Further contextually damning revelations include the existence of bootleg video files on his laptop showing – Benny Hill, On the Buses, Love Thy Neighbour and other banned productions with titles too unsettling to mention.

    Seriously tho’ – this guy looks like a “vegetarian” to me – as beta a beta-male as possible – shouldn’t he have a neckbeard and be a 78th level firemage on Warcraft? It’s not exactly weinsteinian or spacey-an in its depravity – even if he’d been caught on camera saying “grab’em by the pussy” you could have some grudging respect for him. Apologising for nothing at all makes you look weak.

    This is the attempted hybridisation of MeToo and SNPBad – notice how kafka-beautiful it is and infinitely more damning for the guy to have to defend himself against things no one is allowed to detail, and from a person who remains anonymous.

    I wonder what the wordcount in the scottish papers is for comparison between – mcdonald, worboys release and the latest rape gang in telford?

    McDonald could save himself, but only by saying he’s gone “tranny”. Then its get out of jail free as the high victim privilege kicks in. Shit – he could probly even *punch* his accuser, calling her a “TERF bitch” – and owen jones would write pieces defending him.

    I see the comment system remains the same, with the usual twats tea party after 8pm – oh dearie me – but I see the Revs twitter is on fire today –

    “galactic-scale twathole”

    – I think Kezia is, in an odd way, his muse. Putin has a hypersonic cruise missile, May has the Union Bears – but we will win, for we have the Reverend!

    Anyway, I’m off to my below-ground extension for a bit of the “old (non-consensual) in-out”.

  392. Robert Peffers says:

    @Jeff says: 13 March, 2018 at 12:07 pm:

    “The sooner we separate church and state and do away with all “religious” schooling the better.”

    Sheesh! Where do these uninformed numpties come from?

    This one has obviously not read the comments to date.

    Those non-dom schools were formerly the schools set up as religious schools under the, “Pairish”, (parish), system where the local Protestant parishes funded and built and set-up Protestant only schools for their parishoners.

    The system was ended and replaced by a local council system and that system attempted to bring all schools into the state Education system. The RC church, very understandably, were reluctant to join the state education system. Initially their sole reason for having to establish RC schools was the mainly violent suppression of Roman Catholicism and their children’s banning from, “Pairish”, schools.

    Eventually central government and the RC church compromised and the state agreed to allow RC schools to continue but insisted they had to NOT discriminate and accept non-RCs. In return the RC church agreed not to charge the state for the costs of the RC school buildings, grounds and equipment nor for the continued costs of training teachers at RC teacher Training colleges.

    So there you go RC Schools within the state system have always been legally unable to ban those from other religious sects and the, “Pairish”, schools, while even in my early life were known as the Protestant Schools, are actually non-denominational. That means from the day RC schools came under the state education system both RC and Protestant Schools were legally unable to refuse and child on religious grounds.

    which means Sectarianism is the product of the home and not of the schools.

    Now piss off and take your sectarianism with you for I’ve never come across other than extreme Protestants and those who do not know the facts who wanted to stop RC schools.

    The only real difference of RC Schools, and that hardly applies now, is that the RC church funded the training of RC teachers. Local authorities have built them for many years now and all state schools cannot legally discriminate on religious grounds.

  393. Artyhetty says:



    Hey hoad on Heed, sometimes parents have to eductate their kids due to lack of provision for the kids’ rights to an education according to their, ‘ age, aptitude and ability’. Sadly the one size fits all does not always provide this legal framework for our kids. Education is compulsory, school is not. Exams and homework are not compulsory.

    I home educated one son due to failure of LEA to cater for his special needs, he taught himself Japanese, is about to sit his N1, highest Japanese language exam, not an easy one! plus has a good all round knowledge of most subjects!

    Son#2 with special needs who stayed at school, suffered hugely from lack of provision, bullying, and disgusting treatment from some of the staff! Knock on effect, to this day.

    So end of my rant, but parents are well capable of educating their kids, if necessary.

    Just a wee bugbear of mine. But, also all while Labour were at Holyrood and the council.Grr.

    Back to todays shenanigans at lost the absolute plot UKOK.
    What a bloody mess.

  394. Referendum1707 says:

    Robert J. Sutherland 8.24

    “Sometimes, just sometimes, things really are as obvious as they seem. (Occam’s Razor.) The only actor who is capable of this and who needs it right now is the wee czar”.

    What a moronic comment. Straight from the neocon bbc/cnn playlist.

    And what is it in your infinite wisdom you think the “wee czar” needs right now? US/UK/EU approval? Hardly think so.

    Also explain why you think they’d kill him, or try to kill him, (the BRITISH spy) now and not years ago when they had him locked up – rightly – in prison before releasing him early.

  395. Valerie says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    You really are intemperate with folk on here. I ignored your go at me yesterday, but are you really saying segregated schools have no part to play in sectarianism? (post at 3.05)

    I would disagree with that, having experienced it directly as a child in primary school in Paisley.

    If the law prohibits religious discrimination, why do we still separate children? If sectarianism is taught at home, it would be for the best to educate children in a non religious environment?

  396. Glamaig says:

    Astoundingly different ways of headlining the same thing, BBC just quoting Hammond to give a good news story on the economy, but compare with Reuters!

    BBC: ‘UK economy at turning point – Hammond’
    Chancellor Philip Hammond has unveiled upgraded projections for growth and predicted falling inflation and borrowing in his Spring Statement.
    He claimed the UK economy had reached a turning point and there was “light at the end of the tunnel”.
    He ruled out an immediate end to austerity but hinted at possible spending rises in the future.

    Reuters: ‘UK set for slow growth’
    Britain’s sluggish economy looks set for more weak growth stretching out over the next five years, according to official forecasts announced by Chancellor Philip Hammond as the country heads for Brexit.

  397. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says:13 March, 2018 at 12:49 pm:

    “Leaving stuff like education to parents or the god squad, is not a great idea at all.”

    Ain’t that the truth, heedtracker.

    The real truth is that the whole point of RC schools was due to the Protestant, “Pairish”, System that discriminated against RCs.

    Not only that but the discrimination was the fault of the wealthy mine & mill owners deliberately causing discord by employing immigrant RCs at starvation wages to drive down the demands of the existing Protestant workforce.

    The map of Scotland, particularly in the West of Scotland still has local authority councils in close proximity on either side of what had once been mines, mills and iron works.

    Mind you it did also eventually lead to the birth of the co-operative movement, trade unions and the Labour party.

  398. heedtracker says:

    Artyhetty says:
    13 March, 2018 at 3:11 pm


    Hey hoad on Heed,

    OK! But do you want to write the curriculum, or teach, or manage schools?

    School was great, in comp Aberdeen, classic socialist mix of all local socio economic classes, bar the loaded, Gordons and Albyn for them, 50+% great teachers, rest swithering between lazy and dangerous, a lot of time dodging/fighting with psycho bullies.

    But here in Glasgow, its a big culture shock to walk in to the local academy entrance hall of our local academy and there’s a huge wooden sculpture of a man crucified on a cross, on the wall, red painted blood running down his face.

    Holy fcuk:D

    If you’re a godless soul.

  399. Tinto Chiel says:

    Dr Jim says:

    “Leptons are everywhere but pass unnoticed due to their less than insignificance yet they remain.”

    I thought you were going on to coin the term “Lepton Leonard” for a mo.


  400. Proud Cybernat says:

    Prime Directive…

  401. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says: 13 March, 2018 at 12:59 pm:

    “On another matter, Nicola and May are meeting tomorrow to discuss devolved powers in a hope to resolve the deadlock, so why are the BBC still headlining with MacDonald? “

    Bit of lateral thinking is required there, HandandShrimp.

    Looks to me that the BBC is headlining the McDonald thing because of the FM/PM meeting.

    “Or are all the BBC churnalists at Pacific Quay off sick or something?”

    Nah! They are all ON something and mentally sick of everything.

  402. Robert Peffers says:

    @HandandShrimp says:13 March, 2018 at 1:00 pm:

    “Rex Tillerson appeared to be backing the UK over Russia but Trump has just fired him.
    I am no longer sure what universe I am living in.”

    Well then, you seem to be in good company for neither are Trump, May or the rest of the BRUKEXITeers.

  403. Bobp says:

    I see that tom tugendhat tory mp and chairman of the foreign affairs select committee says that ” British football fans could be in danger at the world cup in Russia.

  404. heedtracker says:

    Nah! They are all ON something and mentally sick of everything.

    Its merely how power works in teamGB. BBC decides who gets elected, simple as that.

    Very latest examples of BBC muscle flexing, Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson.

    We all know they’re going to get the SNP Out eventually. During the Gulf war, American troops had decks of cards with the faces of Iraqi regime that they were coming for.

    You can buy the same thing in the BBC Scotland Pacific Quay gift shop, of all the SNP.

  405. Jeff says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 12.39

    I disagree Dave. Let people worship whatever imaginary god that they want that’s fine – but don’t let it affect the rest of us and don’t allow parents to foist their supernatural beliefs on their children until they are old enough to make their minds up for themselves.

  406. Jeff says:

    Robert Peffers @ 12.07

    Don’t assume to know everything about everyone, smart mouth. I’m no sectarian, all religion is mumbo jumbo – I am an atheist. Away with your ‘victim’ persona and get a life -and a plague on all your religious houses.

  407. Ken500 says:

    Scottish education was based on the Churches in the early days. The Churches – communities provided the funding. church members (compulsory?) gave a 10th (tithe to the Church 10th of their income)or more to fund the community services. Education, poor relief, medicinal. Centuries ago. If you were good and provided to charity. You went to heaven. Buy your way to a good after life.

    Doing good deeds. Godly following Jesus deeds/example ensured the belief, that you went to heaven. . Bapisim to endure people were accepted Based on giving to charity. Being charitable and kind to other people. A rich man could not get into heaven. Eye of the needle parable. You could not take wealth with you. You still can’t? The need for a legitimate heir. (for wealth left behind.

    Marx said, ‘Marriage was prostitution’. Early death. In Victorian times 50% of children born died before they were five. Sickness and illness, poverty etc.

    Tertiary limited education. Scotland was one of the first countries in the world to introduce it, limited universal education. Up to 14 years at first. 1948 Education Act. It is only fairly recent times. Full education has been the norm and available to most people. 1960’s Selective until Comprhensive. Extended even more. War education gaps. Some people got skills in the army during wars. Unfortunately. Conscription. Compulsory army service. 2 years.

    It was only in early 20th when universal taxes began to be introduced that State funding began to become the norm. Introduced welfare benefits etc. Around about 1911 Pensions introduce. 1928 Universal Suffrage. Church attendance is falling rapidly. Scotland is becoming more secular. As Scotland becomes more secular. Church schools will become less. Integration.

    The Churches have privileges above the Law. Before Universal Suffrage – religion was used as a form of State control. Go to heaven or hell if people were not good. Damned. Church Law. Roman or Latin. Royalty as head of the Church. The embodiment of God on earth. ‘The Divine right to Rule’ and judge. In fair judgement. Until Universal Suffrage, People’s right to vote. Democracy. One person one vote. Only relatively recently introduced in some European and other countries

    Muslims are still required to give 10th of there income or what they can afford as part of their religion. It is one of the equivalent of their Commandments. To give 10th of their income (or more) to charity. Quite similar commandment. Every religion encourage their members to give to charity and to help one another. Some are not so charitable. They can be bigoted and do not confirm.

  408. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 3.05
    Well in the interests of ..”yer never too old tae learn something “… Robert.
    Ye just have come across someone who,is not an extreme Protestant, or completely ignorant of the history,but who would integrate the Scottish local authority schools tomorrow.
    As a ” cradle” Catholic, in the central belt,I was signed up to RC schools, and while yes the bigotry is mostly learned in the home.
    It’s the re enforcing of it in the schools that leave’s its mark.
    I know,you know, the kind of stuff I mean….we (the independence movement) get it too,only we call it propaganda.

    One example, that’s a bit topical…
    Teacher’s who discussed football,(and many did) using the word “WE” when they spoke of Glasgow Celtic.

    Now where you are correct, is parents often choose a school for other reasons….. I did….I signed my kid’s up to the local RC primary.
    Mainly because the Headmistress of the local Non Dom closer school was generally thought to be worse than useless,my Husband, also confirmed that the High School it fed into was
    a “Shitehole”.
    I was told of this too, by other mum’s who were sending their kid’s to these schools, but were shocked at the though of just using the Catholic one.

    So off they went.
    I was very confident that I could deal with the rubbish spewed at them,and I did.

    What did surprise me though was that it was the Same rubbish.
    Ye would think that given the progress on equality, (remember that’s actually legal progress),ye wouldn’t still have tae tell yer wee girls that “No Our Lady doesn’t cry when girl’s whistle”‘ but ye do.

    Now this might just be a West Central Scotland thing,and I can’t speak for the Non Dom schools, except to wonder why the primary I mentioned was being marched to the local Church at Christmas and Harvest Festival.
    But it is there Robert.

    As to opting out….no one ever told me I could have,or I would have….my kid’s knew they could, and that I would back them on it.
    But they never did,and I think it was because they got a bit of a kick,laughing about the nonsense that was being spouted when they got home….(and pardon the pun) but ” God help” any God bothers who turn up at our door…they better know their stuff!!!

    But the point is that Schools are and can by used to reinforce the mad bigotry going on at home,so,…in my not so humble opinion…. Get the “Jim Crow” out of them and integrate them.
    Don’t ye find it tragic, that everyone can see that the “separate but equal ” laws were wrong in the US but seem to either want them or not actually care enough to change them for their wee Scottish weans ?

  409. galamcennalath says:

    If the SNP were to say what the rest of us suspect … ‘there is very weak evidence that it was the Russian government’ .., then that disagreement would be just picking a needless fight with the Tory WM government. The msm would jump on it as another deflection opportunity.

    Agreement avoids all that.

    There are other battles I’d prefer to see the SNP/ScotGov get on with right now!

    Best to pick just a few fights at a time, and choose the ones which matter most to Scotland.

  410. Ken500 says:

    Religion is often based on fear. Just like politics. The politicians try to fear the voters and tell a pack of lies to get elected and get power. Some ot them are never out of a Church while acting like greedy criminals. Not very christian. Murdering, greedy, selfish liars. Lowlifes. All guilty as hell. Hypocrites.

  411. North chiel says:

    Ahead of the FM meeting with TM tomorrow , let’s hope that our FM is totally concentrated on the absolute contempt that has been shown to Scotland and our democracy by this right wing Westminster Junta dictating over the “ return” of EU powers and the continuing utter contempt shown to the people of Scotland’s wish to remain in the EU . No doubt ( and very conveniently for May) at this particular juncture, the “ Russian “ incident is to the fore and it would appear that TM is looking for “ sympathy “ on the international stage from people and governments in the EU that she has recently “ severely annoyed “ with her intransigence over Brexit. She has also “ dug her heels in” with the devolved administrations over “ the power grab” and consequently i earnestly hope that our FM makes it “ crystal clear” tomorrow that Scotland’s democratic wishes as regards this “ Brexit shambles” will be put to our people in a vote “ come what May” as per the “ material change in circumstances” and the “ democratic vote in Holyrood”. There can be no compromise over this with this “ arrogant Westminster dictatorship” and our FM will surely “ spell it out “ tomorrow to TM despite the usual Tory government ( when they are in trouble domestically) “ defence scare story ploy” and “ blown up” by the state propaganda apparatus for maximum effect. Hopefully our Scottish government won’t be deflected or distracted by “ Tory smokescreens” from our justifiable objectives.

  412. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Since Nicola uses her twitter mainly for virtue-signalling, it makes a nice change to see some me-too sabre-rattling. Cool heads required, but HOW DARE YOU RUSSIA.

  413. Hamish100 says:

    Too much religion not enough faith. Ask the sanctimonious atheist and agnostic zealots! Do they wear nice balaclavas?

  414. Hamish100 says:

    I was going to say headgear but you might take offence

  415. Ken500 says:

    You would still be able to get RT on the internet. Nicola has to make bland concillitary st statements because Scotland voted NO. Majority of People in Scotland did give her a mandate. Foreign Policy is a reserved issue. She has to officially follow their line (Westminster) Privy Counvil and all that. Restriction. It has to be a conciliatory Statement. Under the Ministerial Code of Conduct. She would be behaving illegally if she did not. It could be used against her and Scotland. . Wonder what? That’s how NO voters restricted Scotland.

    Do not believe a word of it. In private it will be totally different. Tolerate it. Do not hold it against the SNP. A different matter. Nicola has to wear too hats. SNP leader and Scottish FM – They are different roles. Not totally compatablec Devolved matters. She is just doing her job, being professional. Has to follow a certain Code. Privy Council. Only on devolved matters can MSP Ministers comment officially. Restrict freedom of speech. The NO voters did that.

    That’s how No voters restricted Scotland. That is why an SNP minister can’t speak out freely about reserved issues publicly. They just have to toady the Westminster Gov line. That is what No voters did to Scotland (Gov) Keep it devolved with less equal rights on reserved issues. Restricted freedom and rights in Scotland.

    What will Salmond say about it? Can’t wait. He can say what he likes now. No restrictions. Go on his twitter website. That will give a more accurate account of what the SNP Party thinks about it. The hand on the pulse.

    Do not hold it against the SNP. The SNP Party is not governing Scotland. The Scottish Gov is governing Scotland made up of elected SNP members and others. Unfortunately on a unionist skewed electoral system. It will have to be tolerated until it can be changed. Is it Devolved. Think it is? Only when SNP has a majority again. The Grreens will not go for it. Neither will the unionists. It benefits them. That’s why it was introduced.

    Do not criticise the SNP on Wings without relevant information. Or do not do it at all. People read it It just helps the opposition. Gives them ammunition and can increase the opposition and representation to Independence. It is an Independence supporting website.. One of the only main ones. It helps the opposition and can increase their support. If you want to do it. Do it somewhere else. Anywhere else. Please. Or cut off your nose to spite yourself and FFA/Independence. Do not do it at all here (or elsewhere?)

    They (SNP) are one of the main vehicles that can can deliver Independence. Do not make it even more difficult to achieve. Same SNP policies can put off voters. Including women. Period poverty etc. Too personal. Private matters Lefty radical policies. Puts voters off. Women should have the dignity to have proper provision of all their needs and be self sufficient. Flogging lefty ‘radical’ policies can put Middle of the road voters off. The majority. Balanced left of centre. Dignity and respect for people is popular and majority supported.

  416. Liz g says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 12.39
    Leaving aside the children’s fundamental rights to learn without fear ,how the world they live in actually works.

    I don’t think you will find many Atheists/Secularists sayin that parents can’t choose a religious school for their kid’s.
    Only that they should pay for it,and tax funded School’s are not to be used to underpin any of the current crop of beliefs.
    I mean the particular two we are talking about here aren’t exactly poor,let the Vatican and the Windsor’s fund their own school’s.
    The tax payer should not have to chip in!

    As to children not being segregated, well that would be to deny the existence of social and peer pressures.
    Also while there is a Law giving Catholics the right to educate separately there is indeed segregation.
    What else would you call it?

  417. mike cassidy says:

    While the argument goes on about Russia’s involvement with an attack that gives poison a bad name

    Treat yourself to a story about when the KGB were doing it for real.

    (Maybe Putin is just a Russian Rees Mogg nostalgic for and hoping to recreate the good old days)

    If you live in Fife, there are copies in the Fife Library system.

  418. crazycat says:

    @ Liz g at 4.37

    …except to wonder why the primary I mentioned was being marched to the local Church at Christmas and Harvest Festival.

    That was something that annoyed me when it happened to my offspring, but I accepted that it wasn’t up to me to make the decision whether to join in or not.

    Worse, in my opinion, is that all councils are obliged to have 3 places on their education committees for unelected religious representatives, one CofS, one Catholic, one “other”. (I object to this because most people don’t know they are there, their presence has the potential to influence councillors’ decisions even if they say nothing, and we can’t remove them if we don’t like them.)

    Tommy Sheppard ( has spoken about this – and been mis-represented, of course.

    Far too many people conflate secularism with atheism; there are plenty of secularists who have their own faith, but don’t think it should be imposed on others.

  419. Cactus says:

    SO as things stand, aye understand it that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom will be making a statement AT and upon midnight, tonight.

    One wonders what she will say…?

    Schtay chooned.

  420. Ken500 says:

    If you believe May or any others disrespects Scotland. Inform them, write a letter and give you views. None abusive on the internet or post with return details . Give your views you wish to share. An avalanche of mail clogging up the system would be excellent. To back up the FM. and the Scottish Gov. Site your case. They certainly take a long time to reply as they are legally required too. Try another time. Must be getting a lot of complaint through e-mail or the Post.

    If anyone wants to be more direct. Or express more forceful views or remain anonymous. Put the gloves on. Leave no address or contacts details. E-mail address etc. They have ways of finding you and making you talk. M15/16, Nasty crooks backed up by the Police.

    10 Downing Street is the address, can be sure they will be delighted to here from you. Giving views clogging up their administration. The more the better. A letter writing campaign. Where has that been heard before. Can’t quite place it. It was a disaster for some folk.

    The only thing SKy gets right is the time.

  421. Ken500 says:

    On reserved issues the Scottish Gov has to follow the UK Gov line. Foreign relations Defence are reserved. That’s why SNP ministers reps on official business can’t speak out freely. They can in private. Or at a local level. Have a personal opinion. Freedom of speak.

  422. Ananurhing says:

    The sage philosopher Homer made a great observation about the divisive nature of people and religion.

    He said, “Religion is like farting. You love your own but hate everyone else’s”

    Homer Simpson of course.

  423. Ottomanboi says:

    The British state is determined to have a fight with Russia, on the thinest of excuses. When you’re in a mess at home it does to find an external distraction. Being British; trust the faithful Unionists will continue to have the doubtful pleasure.
    I hope no one connected with the National party joins in this nonsense.

  424. Ken500 says:

    SNP MP’s st Westminster can. They can say any thing they like. Westminster priviledge of speech. They can say anything that they like. Without being sued or anything, There is Code of conduct they have to follow about form of speech (respectful language etc) Or be sanctioned. Made to leave the House or suspended. Their Party can suspend them. If they do not obey Party rules.

    May (PM) also has to follow a Code of Conduct. They (Minister) often do not. There is no one to sanction them (Cabinet). They often do what they like and use Official Secrets Act. To issue ‘D’ notices to stop Press/people know what they are up to. Covered up for three years. Or longer. Iraqi War, Dunblane, Lockerbie are covered up, hidden for 100 years. They will all certainly be dead by then. Criminal behaviour covered up.

  425. heedtracker says:

    He said, “Religion is like farting. You love your own but hate everyone else’s”

    Homer Simpson of course.

    Look at how hard followers of different religions hate each and how they kill each other.


    Look at how religious or evangelical America backs the most non religious Donald Trump imaginable.

    And there’s a clear possibility that the porn star Stormy Daniels has dick pics, from the President of the United States of America.

    God bless religious people everywhere.

  426. manandboy says:

    Meanwhile, another historic decision, re who calls a border poll:

  427. Dan Huil says:

    @Ottomanboi 6:16pm says:

    “The British state is determined to have a fight with Russia, on the thinest of excuses. When you’re in a mess at home it does to find an external distraction.”

    You’re right, Ottomanboi. Westminster britnats will milk this for all its worth and the britnat media will follow suit, partly [mostly?] to take the public’s eye off britnat power-grabbing. No surprise that May has set a b-movie midnight deadline.

    I hope Nicola is not planning a joint press conference with May after meeting her tomorrow because the britnat media will be primed to spend all their time asking about Russia.

  428. North chiel says:

    Reporting shortcake & Jackie Bird never missing an opportunity to “ smear” Alex Salmond ( and the SNP) over his links with RT on this evenings “ program” . The North British propaganda channel “ better together where you are” ten second “ tapestry tokenism” before the weather.

  429. Dan Huil says:

    @manandboy 6:47 pm

    Meanwhile, another historic decision, re who calls a border poll:

    Seems the poll is open for anyone to vote.

  430. Ottomanboi says:

    Britain’s friend Saudi Arabia wages war of attrition in Yemen. Britain’s Nato ally Turkey is at war with Kurds in North Syria and is doing as much damage to people and archaeological sites as Islamic state, 3000 year old temple blown to bits etc. Media coverage on both is rather patchy to say the least, for an ally is an ally even unto the bitterest end.
    The British government in the meantime thinks the Russian bear will cower before Theresa’s self~righteous scowl. Quelle comédie mes amis!

  431. Dan Huil says:

    Lest we forget britnat hatred for Scotland:

  432. heedtracker says:

    Seems the poll is open for anyone to vote.

    71% United Ireland.

    If it happens, where will all the Loyalists head for?

  433. manandboy says:

    Bigotry, sectarianism, racism, religious intolerance and simple ignorance are all on display here today, alongside some very balanced, intelligent and accurate comments.
    Here’s hoping that in the newly independent Scotland, the latter prevails.

    In the meantime, British Rule continues to be maintained in the Scottish colony through the divide and conquer strategy, made easier by the incumbent anti-Catholic sectarianism and, to a lesser extent the later anti-Irish racism.

  434. heedtracker says:

    North chiel says:
    13 March, 2018 at 6:55 pm
    Reporting shortcake & Jackie Bird never missing an opportunity to “ smear” Alex Salmond ( and the SNP) over his links with RT on this evenings “ program”

    At the outbreak of WW3, just before PM Jezza pushes the big red UKOK button, Botox Bird and her massed rank of beeb gimps will be on the telly, smearing His Eckness, for all of it.

  435. Rock says:

    Brian Doonthetoon,

    “Och rock, you’re haverin’ pish. Have you ever had a discussion with Paula Rose? I have.

    She is totally pro-indy. Green, yes, but pro-indy.”

    So apparently is Patrick Harvey.

    The point is, the likes of Paula Rose pretended to be SNP and duped SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens.

    If by any chance you have read this article, you will know that the Green MSPs ganged up with the unionists against the SNP.

  436. Rock says:

    Scot Finlayson,


    best of all he sidelined red trousered Morningside`s own pet Uncle Tam ; Ian Murray.”


    If the Tories in his own party weren’t dead against him, he would probably be a good leader.

  437. Ken500 says:

    The (SNP) or the other (unionist) Scottish MP’s can say what they like in Westminster about any Westminster policy. The can speak out against any Westminster reserved matter. They can speak out about Defence/Foreign policy. They have one Party member that has that responsibility (brief). Alex Salmond had Foreign policy . He used to give them lardy. He has great experience. He had travelled the world and met heaps of EU /world leaders. Like an encyclopaedia of politics,

    He can tell about meeting the Chinese Premier and heaps of other leaders and heads of States, Anerican Presidents. He was in politics for over 30 years+ and has vast experience and knowledge. He is one of the best politican Scotland has ever had. They should put up a statue to him. .Knows lots of things. He is an interesting speaker. His talks etc. Lots of information.

    He has vast connections with all sorts of people from all walks of life and countries. Met them all. A really smart cookie. A 1st class honours degree. In Economic/? Just came from an ordinary background. He is one of the best politican their has ever been in Scotland. He is 65? years. Nearly retirement age. He deserves a rest and a bit of a break. To do what he wants. It can be stressful always working on. His books are a sell out. Reprinted all the time. Additional copies. His memoirs would be interesting. He would write one. It’s to be sure,

    Not sure how often Nicola us in touch with Westminster MP’s. They are always busy doing stuff. Lots of travelling up and down. If she wanted to say anything. She could get an Westminster MP to do it. (Foreign brief or other) consult on policies. To make statements or ask questions. They could raise it in Westminster.

  438. Giving Goose says:

    Anyone notice the Channel 4 trailers for “Britain’s” polar bear?
    Never miss an opportunity eh?

  439. Liz g says:

    Manandboy @ 7.29
    It is an uncomfortable subject, but I do think it’s a conversation we should be having.
    Otherwise…. as you say it opens the door for the Establishment to manipulate the population.
    I think everyone here agrees that we don’t want our young people to have any part in the kind of display that went on in Glasgow on Saturday anymore, and we are all looking for the answer’s.
    Clearly the current set up…be it school’s, football club’s “kulture”/cultures,freedoms and rights,is not working.
    Because it was all to easily switched back on.

    If we are all right and most really don’t want all this to go on….Then we have to try something different,mibbi radical?
    I don’t really know… but from my experience…. I can see an argument for starting with leveling the playing field.
    Give no one an advantage or a disadvantage, but leave them with a choice….. And I can’t see how to do that when we segregate the school’s, we don’t do it with NHS Scotland, our other great achievement.
    Education for all, should, I would argue,be like Healthcare for all!
    You can use it,but if you want something different go private!

  440. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    Your comment at 7.44pm.

    From what you typed, it appears obvious that your primary objective is not Scottish independence. You are delving into the realms of party politics, which have nothing to do with campaigning for Scottish independence.

    I have talked, face to face, with members and former members of SSP, RIC, Labour for Indy, Greens and so on. We talked about how we can achieve independence, not about current political ideology.

    Conflating the campaign for indy with politics just opens up avenues for the Britnats to exploit.

    Divide and conquer, young man/woman, divide and conquer.

  441. Ken500 says:

    The Tories will be out before long. Give May till the end of the year. Goodness help us when Corbyn comes it. He hasn’t got a clue. Complete and utter chaos. Thank goodness there will be another IndyRef2. Hopefully won by then. Get away from the Westminster psycho bastards.

    Corbyn could have voted them down 12Sept EVEL vote. She could have been gone by now. The rest of them following on. The usual total Tory – unionist chaos . They never fail but they are lining their pockets with public money. Them and their associates. The only reason they are in politics. The pointers are lining up. Runes thrown.

  442. ian murray says:

    There was a great line in “Love Actually”
    When the US President told Hugh Grant “I will give you anything you want unless it is something I don’t want to give you”

    Westminster managed to row back the Naval war with Spain but hopefully Russia won’t take the bait.

    Is this a manufactured crisis to deflect from Brexit ?

  443. HandandShrimp says:

    The point is, the likes of Paula Rose pretended to be SNP and duped SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens.

    Rock this is mince. I met Paula at a Wings meet (more than one come to think of it) years ago and she pretended no such thing. Paula has always been up front about being a Green voter.

  444. Valerie says:

    @ Liz g

    Talking of the Establishment. There is a very weird undertone of ‘English church’ coming through in various guises from the South.

    I think there is very much a movement to make the Establishment religion more prominent. TV discussions including the clergy, documentary type item on work of the church, Treeza snapped every Sunday shaking hands with the clergy.

    I find it really insidious.

  445. Ken500 says:

    Do not criticise the SNP? – for things that are not their fault. (Relevant). There is enough of that going on all ready. In the Press etc. A relentless campaign of information which some people just repeat. Putting people off voting SNP and or Independence.

    Re allocation of budgets etc. Barnett Formula. Which is not in their devolved powers or matters, Check up on something that is bothering ie look up the internet or get the information. Or go to a Councillor or MP or someone who can give the information. Or branch member. Someone will have the information or figures required. Or get advise how to get them. Do some research and find out why something is happening. Or go on the Scottish Gov – UK website. For figures etc,

  446. Bobp says:

    Only ever gonna be one winner between Russia and the brit establishment. How’s it feel brexiteers and brit nats getting your f*****g asses handed to you. Eh sensible?

  447. Robert Louis says:

    ian murray at 0821pm,

    You are correct. It is a manufactured crisis, and it is for two main reasons;

    1. Deflect attention away from Brexit. It has worked.

    2. Give validity to reasoning for banning the Russia Today TV channel. It will work.

    As others have pointed out, the attack was way too clumsy for Putin to have been involved. He is in the middle of an election campaign. He is former KGB. Much, much more to this than we will ever be told. It could have been mossad, or CIA, or a number of other security agencies, including UK (do it then blame the Russians), or one of the many organised crime syndicates. Each is as likely as it to have been Russian sourced.

    To suggest Putin’s involvement is just pure mince.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world of brexit stupidity, the fight goes on to stop the English Tories destroying the Scottish parliament. We will soon reach the point where we need to fight. London (Westminster) is, quite frankly, out of control (and I don’t think they themselves actually understand how much out of control their behaviour is).

    In their arrogant stupidity, they will be surprised when the referendum is called. We won’t be. We’ll be ready. Tick, tock.

  448. Bobp says:

    Ken500 8.18pm. Ken anyone in Scotland contemplating voting for London liebor needs a Lobotomy. ” union bears wont know what that big word means”

  449. Robert Peffers says:

    @Liz g says: 13 March, 2018 at 4:37 pm:

    “Well in the interests of ..”yer never too old tae learn something “… Robert.
    Ye just have come across someone who,is not an extreme Protestant, or completely ignorant of the history,but who would integrate the Scottish local authority schools tomorrow.”

    I can believe your claim of it being a West central Scotland thing, Liz g.

    I began my educational life in the nearest village of East Calder’s RC primary and there was little bother there but my older cousins had gone on to secondary school in West Calder and they found there was a difference just those few miles further west. The sectarian thing seemed to start around West Calder and after my younger sister got married and moved to Whitburn there was a little noticeable sectarianism there.

    My family moved east to Edinburgh and I attended a non-dom primary there. again no apparent problems. On moving to secondary I first went to a non-dom academy in Leith and no apparent problems. However, I had set my heart on a technical course so transferred to an RC junior secondary in a football mad school very close to the Hibs Easter Road Stadium in the days of the Hibs famous five and we lads would train with that Great Hibs team who actually used the same sports field as the school used.

    But come Saturday afternoons the friends I had where we lived, a mixed bunch of RC/Protestants/non-religious, (and we even had a Sikh laddie), among us. We would attend whichever of the big Edinburgh teams were at home that week. The Hearts then had their great, “Terrible Trio”, of Conn, Bald and Wardhaugh”, so great football no matter which team was at home.

    If we couldn’t make it to either Easter Road or Tynecastle we went just round the corner and attended wich of Edinburgh City or Leith Athletic were the home team and sectarianism was never a problem.

    Sectarianism just was not a problem. BTW: When I attended that non-dom academy they were marched to services at such as Easter/Christmas and so on. I chose not to attend andy such events. One thing I do remember at the RC Junior Secondary was occasional visits from an RC priest and a Nun who would speak to the boys and girls respectively. I’ve no idea what they spoke about as I chose not to attend.

    There just wasn’t any great problems with sectarianism. Even back then travelling football fans to Glasgow for Auld Firms teams was quite minimal. No M8 in those days.

  450. Rock says:


    “Rock this is mince. I met Paula at a Wings meet (more than one come to think of it) years ago and she pretended no such thing. Paula has always been up front about being a Green voter.”

    She duped and seduced SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens.

    Mission accomplished, she has disappeared from here but will be back to dupe and seduce the likes of you and Brian Doonthetoon before the next election.

    While cheering the election of 56 SNP MPs, she had no problem with the Greens standing against the SNP and splitting the vote which led to the re-election of the Tory viceroy of Scotland.

    Brian Doonthetoon (25th June 2015 – “One question answered”):

    “You seem to be suggesting that ALL who believe in Scottish independence MUST vote for the SNP next year, in both votes.”

    Rock (25th June 2015 – “One question answered”):

    “I have made it very clear that my suggestion is to SNP supporters.

    I want zero risk to an SNP majority, therefore SNP supporters must give both their votes to the SNP to avoid any risk.

    The likes of Paula Rose are trying to dupe SNP supporters into giving their list vote to the Greens.

    The Greens leader Patrick Harvie is as much anti-SNP as the unionists, and independence is not his top priority.

    I don’t want a hung parliament where the SNP has to rely on Green or Socialist MSPs.”

    The result of voting in Green MSPs at the expense of the SNP is glaring at you in this WOS article, if you cared to read it.

  451. Liz g says:

    Valerie @ 8.30
    Yes ..I am glad you noticed,and said something..
    I had thought that I had been just letting my own prejudices have a bit of exercise.

    Although I had thought that it was all part of the tried and tested methods of a Westminster in trouble…. Up to and including the Russian threat….
    As usual they never give a thought to the CoE not being relevant here.

    But when ye add Saturdays pantomime of Queen adoration to the mix….yes the religious card seems to be getting played.

    All very sinister….at least they are giving our Muslim community a bit of a break ….for now….except for the labour dentist guy (canny spell his bad)

    Here’s hoping the tipping point has past and religious power in Scottish life has had it’s day…and it won’t work any more!

    Anyhoo…OT…are ye coming along tomorrow night?

  452. heedtracker says:

    The Greens leader Patrick Harvie is as much anti-SNP as the unionists, and independence is not his top priority.

    He gave it big licks, indyref1 Rock.

    Say something nasty about the Colonel, Rock.

    Have to hand it to you Rock, for someone like you who spouts the exact same endless repetition of SNP bad, Nic Sturgeon worse, for you to accuse someone else of costing the SNP votes, you really are one shameless nutcase, Rock.

    But that’s teamGB politics for you.

  453. wull2 says:

    My comments are getting shorter as we get closer.
    Just vote SNP/SNP or YES.
    No squirrels in my post.

  454. Robert Peffers says:

    @Jeff says:13 March, 2018 at 4:31 pm:

    “Don’t assume to know everything about everyone, smart mouth.”

    Ooooh! Seems I hit a nerve there.

    “I’m no sectarian, all religion is mumbo jumbo – I am an atheist.”

    Atheist or agnostic – what’s the difference? Don’t answer – I know the difference.

    “Away with your ‘victim’ persona and get a life -and a plague on all your religious houses.”

    There you go exposing your now obvious bias against all religions by attacking me when you have no evidence of what, “All my religious houses are”. I have none.

    Unlike you I do not have your apparent strong dislike of those who do. My only concerns is when people take such extreme views such as yours – it ranks right up there with the hate shown by the Christian Sectarians.

    My objections lie only with the condemnation of other people’s beliefs and you exhibit that in your above assumption that I have a victim persona. I have no religion Christian or otherwise but object to those who would attempt to interfere with other people’s religious beliefs. It just is not either your or my business.

    Oh! Talking about Victim persona – you exhibit that very well also.

  455. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Ken500.

    You mentioned the Barnett formula at 8.36pm.

    Maybe this needs spreading around…

  456. yesindyref2 says:

    Doesn’t seem much to talk about at the moment with the Continuity Bill the big game in town, hoping Labour and the LibDems stay the course, leaving the (new word) – filiblustering – Tory MSPs isloated in their abolitionist stance and their hatred of Devolution.

    May can still turn around the SS UK as it sails serenely for the iceberg, while the Boris and David band fiddle away with an inane gin on their inane faces, but will she? Will she back off and return those 24 powers to Holyrood just in time to get the Constitution destroying Continuity Bill halted in Holyrood, or will she smugly urge Boring and Co onto the iceberg, wiping a crumb of British Dundee cake and one of the Empire biscuit from her mouth?

    The world goggles at the stupidity of it all.

  457. heedtracker says:

    All very sinister….at least they are giving our Muslim community a bit of a break ….for now….except for the labour dentist guy (canny spell his bad)£

    That’s true. Remember the good old tory days when they beat the living shit out of the great British union movement?

    Good times, night after night, massed ranks of beeb gimps, leading and coordinating the full UK media destruction of British unions.

    So that today, all they’ve really got to crush now is, well us really, a couple of million Scots that will eventually go the way of the great British union movement.

    Once massed ranks of beeb gimps have completely destroyed the SNP and then Scottish democracy, with a red tory First Minister, same way they wrecked the unions, tory teamGB really will rule the waves.

    Come friendly Ruskie nukes, land on Pacific Quay first though:D

  458. Glamaig says:

    One possible face-saving way out of this Brexit mess for the establishment is to ‘discover’ Russian ‘interference’ in the Brexit referendum and declare it unsafe. A re-run and voila – the correct result.

  459. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 9.07
    I think and,do hope, it must be “a West Central Scotland Thing” Robert,and glad to know that it’s not Scotland wide!

    And because I am also (in addition to everything else I have said) pretty confident that we won’t ever tolerate “Hedge Row School’s” again, there is no reason that I can see not to integrate the school’s.

    As an aside and an example of what I mean…
    The Headmaster of my kid’s High School, left to go represent the Catholic side of thing’s during the debate around shared campuses in N. Lanarkshire. (I attended his last speech to the School,where he told us this)
    Kept a loose eye on this,it didn’t really affect my own kid’s, so only a – Very – loose eye.
    Anyhoo.. The feed back I came across was.
    There had to be separate entrances for the kid’s.. and….and… separate common room’s for the Staff….think aboot that fur a minute.
    Before they could agree to a shared campus they not only wanted the kid’s separated but also the adults too!
    Of course I don’t believe that (if true) it was a serious proposal,…at least I hope not… but rather it was a wrecking strategy.
    But that’s where the legal right to a separate education has taken us.
    How many N.Lanarkshire tax payer’s are now paying twice because of attitudes like this?

    But more than that….it’s thing’s like this…even if they are only “possibly” true..IE believable… That informed my position that we need to stop segregating the schools!

  460. Fred says:

    Tythes, in Scotland these were called Teinds & paid by the landowners to support the parish kirk, sometimes added to the tenants rent/generally not.

    Unlike Henry VIII in England, the church lands in Scotland were grabbed by the nobility & lairds at the Reformation. This great land-grab was why a church once which built the great cathedrals was permanently skint under the reformers. The maintenance of the kirk was the responsibility of the parish heritors who, while not shy in raising fancy extensions to the kirk to bury their family, were frequently remiss in parting with siller for the kirk itself. Think David Balfour’s uncle Ebenezer here!

  461. Ken500 says:

    Seen it on Stu’s twitter thread. It will be plastered all over the place. The Tories – unionists. They are again cheating Scotland and lying about it. They will not get away with it. Wasting £Billions on their illegal Brexit. Destroying the Scottish/world economy. Deja Vu. Just like Thatcher. Now there is Devolution and the (SNP) Gov to call them out. The internet information easily avsiable. That has stopped them too. Otherwise they would just get away with it.

    The internet has really helped. Computer use has really increased. Since Thatcher. 1990’s. People can organise campaigns better as well. More publicity on various sites. Let’s people find out about gathering and Marches. Campaigns. People can connect quite quickly. Pass on information. Quite a topical subject at the moment.

    Only because of the SNP being in power can call them out. If the SNP loses power at Holyrood the unionists there will just collude with their mates in Westminster. Cover it up. They carried on like that before. No one knew what they were doing. Saying Scotland was subsidised. Totally untrue. Figures research at unis show it. They do all the Statistics. Over many topics.

    If Scotland managed its own affairs and revenues. They would spend differently and manage the economy with different policies to develop the Scottish economy. Enforce the Law on taxes etc. It is being done better but not enough without the relevant powers coming to Scotland. The UK Treasury will not release the information. To relieve poverty etc. They refuse to give out the information. To make it easier.

    The SNP have a lot of information from unis. Research and literature as well. Figures published on the Scottish Gov website. If they were not in power it could be more possible for the unionists to try and hide it. Before 2000 Devolution. It could not be found easily. Only in Uni Depts etc. They did appropriate research. The Westminster Gov always claimed they could not compile separate figures. They did it all the time but concealed it. To cover up their fraud. They are still at it.

    Scotland has lost £Billions because of Westminster policies not supported in Scotland. Thstcher onwards and before. Illegal wars, and tax evasion. There was also no internet cover as there is now. People can share information and research figures etc. It is much easier for anyone to be able to do. The internet makes things much easier to do. Quite quickly.

    The unionists politicans at Holyrood would cover up for the Westminster crooks. They would try and hide it. Complicating accounts. False accounting. The Westminster unionists keep things off the books and lie about it. They have no clue and are useless and incompetent. They can’t count or read a balance sheet. They just want to screw Scotland too. They have done it before. They have form. They were Party to it for years. Taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland, All the Oil monies.

    Economic/history dept figures in unis show that. The figures and evidence are in the courses. Through education. All demonstrated. Vital evidence. Same political/history/sociology courses All the facts and evidence are documented. All the facts and evidence are there. It forms the brief. Research.

    How it is used and invested in London S/E. Money taken out of Scotland, under the Barnett Formula. Why the Formula was introduced by Thatcher, Laing and Forsyth. There was a Scottish Secretary supposed to stand up for Scotland appointed by Westminster. In their pocket. Like Mundell the puppet. Just living it up on taxpayers money.for his cronies. Champagne and capers. £Millions for nothing. Disgusting. While they are sanctioning and starving people.

    Looking up the Scottish/UK figures are available. The Tories – unionists are telling lies about finances all the time.

    The Tories – unionists will be gone soon. It has to stop. They are living on borrowed time.

    The sooner the conditions for the IndyRef2 are in place. The better.

    The Tories are lying about the Autumn Statement. All lies. Hammond is lying.

  462. Davie Oga says:

    Nice to see the usual end Catholic schooling pish. Wonder how other countries manage Catholic schools without hate filled half-wits marching through the streets? You could deport all black people and shut down Bennetts while your at it. Then Glasgow would be a sectarianism, racism, and homophobia free city!

  463. Fireproofjim says:

    You are right about shared campuses and the religious divide.
    Just think of it like this.
    Little black children and little white children are to share a school. However the black children will have to use different entrances from the whites. They will eat in different dining rooms and staff will use different staff rooms. That’s what separate schooling does. The education may be great on both sides but in no way does it improve integration.
    The hundred and fifty year old history of separate schools is interesting but not relevant today.
    Remember also, there are no Catholic or Protestant children. Only children of Catholic and Protestant parents.

  464. Liz g says:

    Davie Oga @ 11.15

    Then tell us..what ye believe… and Why..

    I won’t argue to “end Catholic schooling ” if you can demonstrate that it should continue!

    You have the floor Sir!

  465. Breeks says:

    Glamaig says:
    13 March, 2018 at 9:58 pm
    One possible face-saving way out of this Brexit mess for the establishment is to ‘discover’ Russian ‘interference’ in the Brexit referendum and declare it unsafe. A re-run and voila – the correct result.

    I think silencing Russia Today is one objective of the BritNat Establishment, but I also think May is ratcheting up the tension so any imminent mention of Scottish Independence can be derided and smeared by the BritNat media as a desperately inappropriate and unpatriotic misadventure when the UK has its hands full with suitably testing crisis and state of National Emergency.

    I don’t believe it will work. The whole poisoning incident is beginning to look staged managed for dramatic effect, and after threatening to go to war with Spain over Gibraltar a few short months ago, far from securing the backing of foreign allies, you get the sense foreign allies are quietly manoeuvreing to have any sharp or pointed objects deftly hidden and kept out of the UK’s reach.

    I read Craig Murray’s blog. Scary stuff you really don’t want to believe, but with a sickening ding of authenticity which is curiously absent from the “accepted” version of events pumped out by our friends in the Propaganda Ministry.

    Craig’s reference to Mossad botching an assassination attempt where they tried to spray poison in somebody’s ear has particularly chilling resonance.

    I really, really, really want out of this increasingly ugly UK. Scotland’s association with this increasingly craven, psychotic and sinister Parliament of Westminster cannot end soon enough.

  466. Liz g says:

    Fireproofjim @ 11.25
    Aye..that’s what I’m tryin to say..
    We all know that separate schools were wrong in the US.
    We don’t use this measure for NHS Scotland.
    At University Level this doesn’t apply,why are we accepting it for our 5yr olds
    IMO…its just plain wrong..

  467. heedtracker says:

    Then Glasgow would be a sectarianism, racism, and homophobia free city

    I don’t care what you say. It is fcuking mental walking in to a school entrance hall, in the year of our lord 1818 and there’s a giant dead dude nailed to a cross, with blood dripping down his head, on the wall.

    It is easy to get creeped out being Scottish though, nutters to the left of you, even bigger ones to the right.

    Then you can go home, turn on the great beeb gimp tv network, where they’re trying to start WW3 with Russia in England, as their Scottish beeb gimps desperately try to bring down the elected government of Scotland and thereby destroying Scotland’s nascent democracy once and for all.

    At weekends, you can watch lots of masked thugs in Glasgow’s street set off fireworks and shout about killing people, as the cops simply stand and watch them, after chasing after a cyclist that jumped a red light and fining a him grand, if they’re lucky.

    Only in the Scotland region of teamGB.

    Now wonder the English worship Brenda and the rest of her saucer eyed parasites.

    Rule fuckhead Britannia, on earth and up in heaven too.

  468. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Liz g at 10.00

    To correct you on one major point. Catholic schools are only provided where there is no extra cost to the tax payer. That was a sensible provision of the generous 1918 Education Act. When they are no longer viable in those terms they are closed as has happened in many places already.

    I have lived in two places in Scotland where everybody goes to the same school. I have seen street battles in them after old firm matches.

    Sectarianism is not the fault of separate schools. Rather, separate schools were the result of vicious anti Catholic sectarianism in Scotland.

    I taught for years in a Catholic secondary school in Lanarkshire. The religious element in the curriculum (a half hour a day perhaps) consisted of inflammatory encouragements like “Thou halt not steal”. “Thous shalt not kill”, “Honour thy father and thy mother” and such like.

    This is a totemic issue for Scotland’s Catholic community. Polls have identified that 76% of Scotland’s Catholics voted YES (as against 43% of Scotland’s identifying Protestant community)

    If we want to make absolutely certain that we lose the next referendum give the Labour Party this stick to beat us with.

  469. heedtracker says:

    The religious element in the curriculum (a half hour a day perhaps) consisted of inflammatory encouragements like “Thou halt not steal”. “Thous shalt not kill”, “Honour thy father and thy mother” and such like.

    Why do you need to be told over and over not to kill, or be nice to your mum and dad?

    Poverty is the cause sectarian violence. Simple as that. You never see middle classes out on the streets dressed in black etc.

    Well maybe Halloween, that ancient pre God ritual.

  470. geeo says:

    Poor rock…still desperate.

    As long as the Greens are supportive of independence, i have zero issue with them.


  471. Robert Peffers says:

    @Liz g says: 13 March, 2018 at 10:00 pm:

    “I think and,do hope, it must be “a West Central Scotland Thing” Robert,and glad to know that it’s not Scotland wide!”

    Well seems it is mainly West Central, Liz g.

    “The Headmaster of my kid’s High School, left to go represent the Catholic side of thing’s during the debate around shared campuses in N. Lanarkshire. (I attended his last speech to the School,where he told us this)”

    Re that example, Liz g. Matter of fact that RC Edinburgh primary I attended shared an annex with the local Non-Dom as the RC, being well known as the better school for getting pupils through the Qually at an early age, was overcrowded and the non-dom primary had an annex with spare places. The Qually classes of both schools shared that Annex but not the respective teachers. I enjoyed it as the annex it was actually closer to home and kids walked to school in all weathers back then.

    There was no shared staff rooms, no shared dinner hall no shared playground and the rather large playing fields, (later to be also shared with the local non-dom secondary not yet then built), was totally also shared. In fact some of the less popular School sports teams were also shared with RC/Protestant and any other odds and sod religions in the teams. I joined the shared school table tennis team. All that was separate was the two schools classes with their respective teachers but only in the classrooms.

    As it happened I came across a distant cousin from the Leith Branch of the Peffers family in that shared annex playground.

    By coincidence after my younger sister emigrated to Australia and my parents followed on I was able to get her and her family to meet my sister as they both ended up within a mile of each other in Australia and neither had known the other existed.

    I’m not saying there wasn’t some sectarianism in Edinburgh back then because there was but it was not rife.

    For example a character, if memory serves, named John McCormack, who got elected as a councillor and then they made him a Baillie. He was well known to hand out stiffer sentences to, “Kafflics”, and was a well known anti-RC speaker at the Sunday Speakers Corner at the foot of the Mound. Shouting hate of RCs to his supporters from his soap box. He used to come away with stuff that would have put him in Sauchton Prison these days.

    However, there was very little real problems though it did raise its ugly head occasionally. There was also attempts to stir it up between Hibs & Hearts supporters but it never really came to very much. In fact football trouble is probably worse now than it was then but mainly is sectarianism free.

  472. Liz g says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 11.54
    I never said that Sectarianism was the “fault” of the School’s.
    I said that that having separate schools help’s it flourish.

    I pointed out that we ( Scotland) don’t do that with our Healthcare or our Universities.

    And I am more than happy to continue with the current arrangements…. If you/or anyone else, can demonstrate why
    You think segregated school’s are a good idea.
    Tell me/us how exactly that work’s
    And tell me/us if it is such a good plan…how do you see it transferring over to NHS Scotland.

    Can ye no see …Dave,this arrangement has had its day.
    It pre date’s NHS Scotland, and was never a part of the university system.
    It might even be helping the Establishment manipulate us.
    Indy or No…! We should not let this continue..

  473. Davie Oga says:

    Liz g says:
    13 March, 2018 at 11:34 pm
    Davie Oga @ 11.15

    Then tell us..what ye believe… and Why..

    Firstly Catholic schools aren’t the issue. Canada , Australia, New Zealand, Th U.S. all have substantial Catholic education systems and no sectarianism. The issue is ingrained, generational bigotry, promoted by one football club in particular, and reveled in by another.

    Personally I would have a zero tolerance approach.

    First Billy Boy/ Ooh ah up the rah chant and I would revoke the offending clubs licencing for a year.

    I would mercilessly prosecute all ringleaders, organizers, and cheerleaders under beefed up promoting terrorism, inciting religious hatred legislation. £50000 fine.

    I would ban all Orange walks and in the case of last Sunday’s nonsense, I would put a police commander in charge who “gets” Mariano Rajoy and I would immediately baton, tazer, and pepper spray the scumbags into the pavement.

    Zero tolerance.

  474. Liz g says:

    Davie Oga @ 12.54
    OK..I’ll play..Fur now.!
    All that is believe should happen!

  475. Brian McHugh says:

    Religion is primitive… Luckily, it has a use by date. Tick tock.

  476. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Liz g at 12.20

    If we were starting from now we would not have state sponsored separate schools. We are not starting from now.
    There is considerable historical baggage here if you had registered my important point.

    However there was never state sponsored Catholic schools in England but nonetheless many parents in England supported English Catholic schools and I suspect the same would have been the case in Scotland had the 1918 Education Act not brought them under state support. Children going to different schools seems to cause no problem in the rest of the world,.

    The fact of the matter is that sectarian objection to separate schools has all come from the one side. There is no Catholic who would object to a Church of Scotland or an Episcopalian school of which there are several.

    The division is from the home. The separate school stuff is a diversion. When I was growing up my friends went to St Gerards, St Mungos, Bellhouston Academy, Shawlands Academy, Holyrood SS, Allan Glens, Hillhead High School and the High School of Glasgow. We played in the same games of football, went down to Largs for a rerr terr on the evening train, chased the same lassies and got on famously well – because there were no bigots among us.

    What perpetuates sectarianism is the dregs of systemic anti Catholicism which is thankfully dying out. But a community looked down on for the best part of a century has a long memory. The Catholic school issue is a totemic issue for a significant section of that community but I know of many Catholics who now send their children to non denominational schools (and some non Catholics who send their children to Catholic schools).

    In post religious Scotland the matter will resolve itself.

    However we still have a problem. I heard a well dressed middle aged and (I thought) reasonable women say “Of course the SNP vote is the Catholic vote”

  477. The Dog Philosopher says:

    What team should you follow when you happen to believe the scientific evidence that supports theories of evolution?

    The one thing that most major religions are very good at is practising the psychology of groupthink rather than coming up with any adequate evidence to support a particular skygod’s existence. How they love their little rituals, plus the ever- looming threat of some fiery place that could only have been devised by a sadistic mindset. Richard Dawkins has described forcing a religious label onto a small child as akin to psychological abuse. Having been ‘branded’ RC from a very young age I would have to concur.

    The Scotland I want to see my grandkids grow up in is one free from all this superstitious crap, and which embraces the idea that we don’t own this planet, that it is not ours to endlessly exploit at the expense of all other species. The polar bear is a fine, admirable creature. The Union Bears are a bunch of wankers.

  478. Liz g says:

    Dave Mc Ewen Hill @ 1.16
    While I agree that we are not starting from now.
    And the History of all this matters.
    We..I think,are.. about to be makin/writin a new Constitution.
    We must..I think,be aware of the New Scotland…
    Can we no at least, address this problem,and remove the possibility that our schools facilitate it?
    We should, I believe,as I said just level the playing field!
    And can I just say that!!
    I still haven’t heard any argument that rebuts our schools are operating under the “Jim Crow “ laws.
    I am not saying that you support them!
    Only that you have not addressed them?

  479. Al Dossary says:

    “A vote for the SNP is a Catholic vote” was the official line from the grand orange lodge of pooh bah in Scotland maybe 20 years ago during a general election. Whilst Labour was not an ideal vote for the pooh-bahs, it served a purpose as a “not SNP” vote.

    Maybe the respectable lady was one of them. They walk among us after all.

    I saw at least 2 pics from pooh-bah notice boards in the aftermath telling their members to vote for certain councillors as they were “one of us”

    Schools are part of the problem. The bigot brothers are part of the problem. But the biggest part of the problem is the indoctrination on the fathers knee.

    Your child may well go off to school being a perfectly balanced, non religious, non bigoted child in the central belt. However once in school they then begin to come under the influence of their peers.

    That constant drip, drip, drip of Rangers, & Celtic, proddies and tims wears them down over time. The mild allegiance they had to the local non-bigoted team gradually dissapears to a desire to trot off to Glasgow to watch one or other of the bigot brothers with their new friends.

    Once they are in high school, the circle of friends grows. Kids from further distant become friends. They begin to spend less and less time with their old, first generation friends (from whom they were seperate at age 5 for school) and before you know it they are heading off to see one or other of their bigot brother teams.

    All because a small handful of kids were brainwashed from birth by their parents and plain and simple turned your child into a semi-bigot.

  480. Roger says:

    It’s up to England to save itself, neither Scotland nor Ireland can do it for them.

  481. Craig P says:

    >>What team should you follow when you happen to believe the scientific evidence that supports theories of evolution?

    The non-denominational team??

    Watching other people playing sports must be one of the most pointless activities known to man. You could argue that sectarianism adds a bit of spice to the sports fans otherwise meaningless lifestyle.

  482. Nana says:


    Alyn Smith’s blistering speech on Brexit this morning. There really is still time to change course!

    Scotland and Brexit: Why is the ‘Remain’ Voice So Muted?

  483. Robert Louis says:


    RIP Prof. Hawking. A truly great, great man.

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